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The Fantasist

Posted on November 07, 2017 by

It is with the heaviest of hearts, readers, that we must report to you that Gordon Brown has done an intervention again.

With a new book to sell, the purposeless former Chancellor and Prime Minister who led the UK into a catastrophic financial crisis that’s now entering its second decade has put on his hindsight goggles and made a whole series of bewildering proclamations after the event, which have – naturally – been dutifully received and repeated by the fawning Scottish press like God handing down the Ten Commandments to Moses.

It’s worth seeing the piece in its entirety (click to enlarge).

A whole series of questions leap immediately to mind, like why Brown – if he felt so strongly about the subject of a third option – kept his mouth shut before the vote. After all, it’s not as though he normally waits for an invitation before lumbering into the political arena howling and beating his chest like a silverback gorilla.

But the strangest assertion in the piece is this one:

He doesn’t say how much “later” this advice arrived, or who it is who respects these two academics so much, but we’re scratching our heads trying to work out how any of them came up with such a figure. Because there’s quite a lot of evidence around on this subject, and none of it comes even remotely close to supporting the proposition.

The most multi-optioned research on constitutional issues is the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey, which for the 15 years preceding the referendum asked a very large sample of Scots how they’d prefer to be governed, from full independence down to abolishing Holyrood and being ruled directly from Westminster. The results are below.

The central “devolution with tax powers” option has never recorded support above 58%, and has averaged just 50.5% with Don’t Knows excluded. (Or 44.7% including DKs.) In the last survey before the indyref the figure was 48% – fully 30 points short of Brown’s claimed figure.

Of the rest, just over a third wanted independence and one sixth wanted Holyrood to have either FEWER powers or none at all. It seems self-evidently true that people who want less power for Holyrood would not have voted to give it any MORE powers in a three-option referendum where the straight status quo was an available choice, so we can pretty confidently rule out adding any of them to the 48%.

And so to get that number up to 78%, we’re left – or rather, Gordon Brown And The Respected Academics are – in the ludicrous, laughable, mad position of asserting that out of the 36% of voters who said they wanted independence, five-sixths would have rather voted for more devolution had it been available. Or put another way, 83% of the people who said they wanted independence didn’t really mean it.

The farcical insanity of this position is revealed by the fact, emphasised in the Times article, that Brown himself was the figurehead of The Vow, the infamous pledge that insisted a No vote actually DID mean lots more devolution, rather than the status quo.

Yet having been promised that voting No would give them what they secretly really wanted (which by Brown’s reasoning should therefore have led to a flood of extra No votes), the 36% of Scots who the SSAS found in favour of independence instead leapt by a quarter to 45% by the day of the actual vote.

And still the Times (and the rest) run this dribbling lunacy without a word of doubt or challenge, because the Scottish media simply NEVER questions Gordon Brown. Even fearsome inquisitors like Bernard Ponsonby inexplicably turn into deferential poodles when faced with the Great Clunking Fist.

We’d quite like to see the incriminating photographs Brown surely has of all of them.

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    1. 07 11 17 11:56

      The Fantasist | speymouth

    364 to “The Fantasist”

    1. McDenster says:

      He always had his eye on other matters.

    2. bobajock says:

      He’s a fly in the ointment now, a harbinger of hell back in the Labour 2000’s – never regulating, resulting in the crash to end all crashes.

      He’s a false dawn, based on falsehoods aplenty, the man who puked up the Vow – thinks change … and the 1st change was EVEL. Our political presence now 2nd class.

      I despise the moron.

    3. Holebender says:

      So, to be clear, he was happy to take Tory money for his “Labour” front organisation (half Better Together’s funds) he just didn’t want to be seen to be a Tory stooge.

    4. Street Andrew says:

      When you say ‘fantasist’ is that a euphemism for ‘useless cunt’?

    5. Marie Clark says:

      Oh, God love you Stuart. Poor soul, having to wade through this shit day in and day out. You do such a wonderful job of debunking the nonsense, it’s nae wunner they dinnae like you.

      I’ll never understand why anyone gives Broon the time of day, never mind all the apparent adoration he seems to get from the MSM. Mabybe it’s just me then.

      I suppose he has to try and sell his book of lies, although he seems to think most of us must have the attention span of a goldfish. How soon will it be till we see the book in the bargain 50p bin? Mind you that’ll still be to dear for me. Widnae gie it hoose room YUK.

    6. gordoz says:

      Is that stone dead ? Like Mad Bobo Bobertson stone dead ?

      Or McTiernan – never gonna happen kinda dead.

    7. It’s a bit late to have all the answers now. Rifkind, McLeish, Curry, Brown etc.
      If the media asked my opinion on every occasion, I would think I was important too.
      Let them wither.

    8. rigmac says:

      It’s the incriminating evidence they have on him, not the other way round

    9. heedtracker says:

      He’s a red tory yoonster, simple as that. He only exists because England votes tory, red or blue, Scotland’s merely a region of greater tory England. How it all works in this mad yewkay of tory rule.

    10. Greannach says:

      I wish we could see a lot more of Gordon Brown on TV. I particularly enjoy the swivel-chin and the sinister smiles at inappropriate times.

      I wish Channel 4 would bring back their show, After Dark, where a round table of attention seekers would issue their opinions. I’d like to see Gordon Brown hosting it with friends like Norman Tebbit, Splendid Lord Alistair Darling, Margaret Curran, Gemma from TOWIE and other very important people. The production company would make a fortune.

    11. Highland Wifie says:

      David Mccrone and Frank Bechhover, two old duffers who have written a book together on ‘National Identity’. Apparently about Scottish, English and British identity. Well I’m sure they’re very well respected by a bunch of Britnats. Haven’t read it so couldn’t possibly comment!

    12. One_Scot says:

      Jeez, this man has had more comebacks than Eddie Izzard.

    13. yerkitbreeks says:

      In retrospect it really is odd so many Scots were proud of the ” clunking fist ” for making it with Blair down South amongst the Metropolitan elite.

      I guess those were the days of the unquestioned lead labour had up here.

    14. Robert Peffers says:

      No further comment – for now.

    15. Vestas says:

      Double-edged sword I reckon Stu – if people didn’t report on him (etc) then he’d fade into justifiable irrelevance 😉

    16. Robert Peffers says:

      Och! Weel!

      Jist fir fun:-

    17. Morgatron says:

      McDenster@ 11.44.
      Superb . Hes a total moron and always has been a bit loose with the truth has old Sammy Davis Broon.
      He should have been hauled out of Westminster and paintballed with his own shite along with Blair & Darling then & there for their part in the finiancal catastrophe of 2008 that we are still paying the price for.Yet still the press lap it up and expect us to swallow his pish.

    18. jimnarlene says:

      He’s delusional, and the sycophantic B.U.M., just love to use him as a squirrel, or dead cat; whichever distraction de jour.

    19. David Caledonia says:

      Its allways interesting to see people like Gordon Brown, people like himself, cook, and blair, and darling etc etc, not one of them as far as i am aware ever ran for office in scotland, they all owe their status to the english labour party, it seems scotland was to small for their political ambitions, so they all headed south to be part of the westminster movement and they all went along with what the westminster labour party decided what scotland should be, these people had no interest in the future of the scottish people, Brown is basically out of british politics along with Blair, cook is dead, and Darling has taken his seat in the house of Lords, a place where no true socialist would be seen dead in, yes , they are just a few of the gang that some people in scotland trusted to fight for us, and they all have one thing in common, not one of them cared, as long as they could grab their bit of power and get rich in the process by being at westminster they would tell the gullible in scotland what they wanted to here, as Rabbi would have said, a person of independent mind would not have given that lot the time of day

    20. Macart says:

      All that hindsight…

      Y’know, some folk might think Mr Brown was being a tad deceitful or disingenuous at this point. I seem to recall Mr Brown made some quite sweeping statements, pledges, assurances and guarantees to the Scottish electorate during indyref 2014. Guarantees and assurances which have almost entirely failed to materialise in the three years since he made them.

      So what is he now saying? That his interventions were ill informed? That his whistle stop tour of terrifying pensioners had no effect? Or is he saying a big boy did it all and ran away?

      His name will forever be linked to a VOW which never was fulfilled. He betrayed people’s trust and sold them a false bill of goods. No amount of column space will ever wash that stain out and we shouldn’t EVER forget, nor let anyone else forget.

      That’s his legacy.

    21. Mochachoca says:

      To be fair they will be referring to a second question about devomax rather than a third option on a single question. So 78% doesn’t sound to unrealistic.
      Surely just about every indy voter would also tick yes to devomax as a backup in case indy didn’t get across the line.
      That’s why Westminster were so reluctant to make it a two question referendum.

    22. Maryscot says:

      Any updates on Holyrood being evacuated?

    23. heedtracker says:

      To be fair to Crash Gordo, he did make the richest of the rich, rich beyond their wildest dreams. As well as trying to destroy Scottish democracy in 2014, with his vote NO for Scottish home rule bullshitting, his horror wars in the middle east,

    24. Helpmaboab says:

      For as long as I’ve been aware of him, Brown has been idolised by Scotland’s establishment: He’s been treated to a weird mix of hero-worship, lad o’ pairts mythmaking and a Great Man personality cult.

      And for no good reason.

      His career before entering politics was, err, ‘undistinguished.’ His time at the treasury was marked by a disastrous credit bubble that we’re still paying for. His government was brief and chaotic. His quarrelsome and antisocial personality is legendary.


    25. Morgatron says:

      Rigmac @ 12.01
      Superb , totally agree.

    26. Robert Peffers says:

      @jimnarlene says:7 November, 2017 at 12:21 pm:

      “He’s delusional, and the sycophantic B.U.M., just love to use him as a squirrel, or dead cat; whichever distraction de jour.”

      And here was me thinking of him more as a, “Dead Parrot”, than anything else.

    27. John H. says:

      Brown was always overrated. Whether on important matters or small, you could depend on him to mess it up. He wanted power very badly, but hadn’t a clue what to do with it when he got it. My favourite memory of him is when he mistook a cupboard door for the exit, emerging a few seconds later with his hideous frozen grin still intact.

      Why on earth would anyone want to listen to him? If it wasn’t for the media he would be forgotten by now.

    28. geeo says:

      How nice of Brown to openly admit that the Edinburgh Agreement WAS indeed BREACHED, therefore making the 2014 result OFFICIALLY invalidated.

    29. Alan S says:

      he must be strapped for cash writing fiction like this, wonder who will actually buy this book, I will have to check the local charity shops for a copy next week as no doubt he will have given away hundreds of copies to people who he thinks may vaguely believe the dribble he has written….

    30. themadmurph says:

      Rev. Stu said “We’d quite like to see the incriminating photographs Brown surely has of all of them.”

      Would you really though? That’s some serious fetish going on!

    31. Highland Wifie says:

      Can’t link as I’m on iPad but there’s an interesting piece on Mccrone and Bechhofer book here.

      Debate on Understanding National Identity by David Mccrone and Frank Bechhofer.
      Wiley>online library >nana.>12314 pdf
      Perhaps CameronB Brodie can help?

    32. Marc Rich says:

      This is the exact kind of analysis that drives the Scottish print media nuts.

      The use of clear reason and logic to undermine wild assertions.

      In a world of lies, its so refreshing to see some truth.

    33. Robert Graham says:

      Ah broon widely regarded as amongst the worst premiers since 1945

      His master stroke of announcing the sale of gold reserves preceded the biggest fall in the value of gold in history , a give away fire sale of our reserves unequaled anywhere in the world .

      without doubt he is as welcome as a fart in a stuck lift .

      His government singlehandedly decimated the british pension industry costing countless thousand people millions of pounds when their pension pot went through the floor .

      The B/rd should have been arrested for criminal incompetence and negligence in office not lauded as wise elder statesman .

    34. Robert Peffers says:

      @Maryscot says: 7 November, 2017 at 12:29 pm:

      “Any updates on Holyrood being evacuated?”

      Only that it was just parts of the building that were evacuated and that there were three packages all delivered to Conservative members offices.

      This has all the heady scents of a false-flag or covert operation to throw suspicion upon the independence movement.

      A covert operation is a military operation that intends to conceal the identity of, or allow plausible denial by the attacker.

      It is intended to create a political effect which can have implications in the military, intelligence or law enforcement arenas affecting either the internal population of a country or individuals outside it.

      Covert operations aim to secretly fulfil their mission objectives without anyone knowing who carried out, or sponsored, the actual operation.

    35. Brian Powell says:

      On the issue of fantasists, the National with full paged photo of Corbyn, with little caption, what the Queen did was not good.

      Corbyn? He’s the one who wants the National shut down.

    36. heedtracker says:

      Why on earth would anyone want to listen to him? If it wasn’t for the media he would be forgotten by now.”

      Even if he really was a Scottish haha lefty, he knew that he would never get anywhere near UK power, unless he could win over England’s Daily Heil, Sun, Express readers over. Its why the great beeb tory gimps allowed him a go at No.11. England’s a tory creep show.

      After the whole red tory Crash Gordo bullshit collapsed, with the City, Gordo was finished, not because of the crash, but because he’d served his usefulness, for tory England. If you want to get in to government in the UK, go tory.

      Its why we now have a haha lefty like Jezza Corbyn flip flopping like a tory now. JC wants power but he has to reach out to the tory England vote.

      What does CND president Jezza Corbyn actually stand for? is he a Brexiteer, does he want UKOK nukes dumped in Scotland, will he tax the rich?

      Tory England media start to buff up this latest red tory dingdong, for even more red tory greatness:D
      Celebrity Special for SU2C
      Series 10 Episode 9
      Jeremy Corbyn, Jessica Hynes, Liam Gallagher, Freddie Flintoff, Jamie Redknapp, Ed Sheeran, Big Narstie, Example and Ozzy and Sharon Osbourne join Britain’s favourite viewers, for Stand Up To Cancer

    37. winifred mccartney says:

      gordon brown – he of the vow that was a lie, the deregulation of the bank, his cosying up to the city, the iraq war, his lies, lies lies, to pensioners, to people on the transplant lists etc He should be either in jail or in hiding.

    38. Robert Graham says:

      back to broon i wonder how much his beloved labour party has and still is costing ,they are past masters at spending other peoples money .

    39. These people Brown Darling Blair Cameron Rifkin are all proven liars in a decent world they would be shunned not wheeled out to give their opinions the media and them have one thing in common they have no shame and they treat us as idiots but then some people are unfortunately

    40. Capella says:

      Labour have been promising Home Rule ever since Keir Hardie invented the party.
      Whenever it looks like we are about to become independent, out comes some wraithlike ghost of times past, wailing about Home Rule.
      No wonder he was compared to Heathcliff

      He is better known for being a romantic hero due to his youthful love for Catherine Earnshaw, than for his final years of vengeance in the second half of the novel, during which he grows into a bitter, haunted man, and for a number of incidents in his early life that suggest that he was an upset and sometimes malicious individual from the beginning.
      His complicated, mesmerizing, consumable, and altogether bizarre nature makes him a rare character, with components of both the hero and villain.

    41. Les Wilson says:

      He is an old dog, would only give interviews on his own subject, whatever that was, would only speak and rant to a small hand picked audience, BBC cameras could not disguise it all, all of the time. Would give few interviews in case someone asked something he did not like.

      He threatened pensioners and said we would not get organs for transplants from England. He lied about so many things over his period. A hopeless Prime Minister, some say the worst ever. Helped to cause the financial crash, yet when he babbles fantasy about Scotland the press treat him as a great Unionist asset?

      I guess we can expect no different, from him, or them.

      A total shit bag, then and now. A ministers son? I hardly think his father would have been proud of him.

      Scots watched and listened in awe, they could not believe their ears, with all his ravings. however the dutiful britnat press and the BBC always got his message across to his believers, but far less of them around now.

    42. Muscleguy says:

      I bet as soon as support for Indy is stably over 50% then Federalism and DevoMax will be thrown at us from all directions.

      I’m a former DevoMaxer, not because I didn’t want independence but that the Lib/Lab ScotGovs had persuaded me Scotland did not have the politicians it needed to be an independent country. I have so experience of making this assessment having grown of age and voting in New Zealand.

      The 2007 SNP ScotGov disabused me of this notion. I was impressed not just by their Social Democrat chops but their sheer technocratic competence.

      Few countries could deliver both the Border Railway and the QF on budget. NZ is pretty close to it in rebuilding the road and rail lines along the Kaikoura coast buried under enormous slips after the earthquake. Something of the determination which drove them through in the first place is still there.

    43. Mark Russell says:

      The extract I read related to his knowledge of Iraq’s WMD capability which claims he was unaware until 2009 that the Pentagon had deliberately lied and misled the UK government about Saddam’s imaginary stockpiles that threatened Britain.

      There is no mention that the Pentagon has lied and misled everyone over the precursor to war – 9/11.

      It is a pathetic attempt to re-write history in an attempt to assuage his own guilty conscience. I would like to read what he has to say about Dr David Kelly’s death and in particular, what instructions he (Brown) gave to the Security Services the day before Kelly’s death.

    44. Graeme McCormick says:

      Are these the pictures in Kelvingrove Park?

    45. Manandboy says:

      Westminster gets its clunking fist Robot ready for action.

      Brown’s value lies in his usefulness to British State Propaganda.

      This article is the third in recent weeks, the others were in the Guardian, each with the same purpose of rehabilitating the Brown public image as an intellectual politician and a voice of authority for both Scotland’s labour supporters and its huge contingent of elderly but brainwashed voters.
      So why restore Brown’s reputation at this time? A child in P5 could answer – to get him ready for Better Together 2 in response to IndyRef2.

    46. Marcia says:

      I do object to Brown flooding ‘The Works’ bookstores with his unsold books in a few months from now. Even overpriced at 50 pence.

    47. Cag-does-thinking says:

      There are aspects of Gordon Brown that genuinely puzzle me. The book (which I look forward to getting a copy at my local charity shop like most review copies) seems one of those books “How I was right about everything” in stark contrast with the things he actually did. There were no WMDs and I was mislead. The above tosh as well. He just seems to remember it with a clarity that is at odds with his dismal performance as Chancellor and the spectacular gaffes such as the gold sale. His ability to find statistics that don’t exist go unchallenged because Gordon understood the necessity to control the media around him and never to give interviews that might make him stutter.

      I suspect they have some final role for him as Viceroy of Scotland when Brexit comes to keep us all in check under the empire.

    48. Dan Huil says:

      Who the hell believes such Britnat BS from Brown? I bet even some of the britnat media admit tothemselves that Brown is a serial liar but they will give him column inches and they will give him airtime [especially his friends in the bbc] in order for him to continue lying to the people of Scotland.

      Brown is a pathetic, disgusting, bloated British nationalist who is a “tractor” to Scotland.

    49. Marcia says:

      The highlights of Gordon Brown’s career…

    50. Proud Cybernat says:

      Running out of puff…

    51. schrodingers cat says:

      the sycophantic B.U.M., just love to use him as a squirrel, or dead cat;

      um, some of my best friends are dead cats


      Labour have been promising Home Rule ever since Keir Hardie invented the party.

      um, Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham

    52. Jack Murphy says:

      Greannach said at 12:03 pm:
      “I wish we could see a lot more of Gordon Brown on TV………”

      Brown has a book to sell.
      The soft sofa of the BBC One Show beckons…

    53. Dr Jim says:

      He blunders about like a blind dinosaur banging into stuff shouting *Hulk Smash*

      “Dribbling lunacy” that’s the perfect phrase to describe the Labour party Stuart

    54. Greannach says:

      Jack Murphy @ 1:49 pm

      That’s bucked me up no end. Already looking forward to him telling a tragic story then smiling scarily halfway through. Pity about the sofa, though. I’d have enjoyed watching him prancing around the carpet.

    55. Davosa says:

      Brown is a ("Tractor" - Ed) to Scotland and always will be.

    56. Proud Cybernat says:

      The Great British Fake-Off…

    57. starlaw says:

      Nae money for his book Ive just donated to the SNP. His books will all end up in the recycle centre near Glenrothes.

    58. david says:

      An interesting read. Firstly let me point out that I would not trust Gordon Brown to deliver anything he promised.

      On this particular article I think it is possible that with a third, clearly and properly defined, dev-max option in the 2014 referendum I think it is possible that 78% would have supported it. What we really need to consider is how a three question referendum would have worked.

      Would it have been that the three scenarios, full independence or devo-max or status quo would have been voted on in one single poll and the one with the highest count would have won?

      In that case I think lots of full independence supporters would have supported devo-max to avoid the very high risk that the status quo vote would have prevailed.

      Even if the three options were put to the public in a two stage ballot where the first ballot eliminated the least popular option I still think it very likely that devo-max would be the option most likely to make it into round two. In that second round it is quite possible that devo-max would have achieved around 78% support against either full independence or the status quo. Many, many yes to indy and many, many no to indy were looking for that compromise and would have supported it.. For the yes to indy people it would have been a major stepping stone to independence and for the no to indy people it would have been an ideal option of full fiscal autonomy but still in the UK for defence and foriegn affairs and still in the uk for membership of the EU.

      The tories did not want a devo-max option because it would have been seen by the indepenence movement as a major advance on the journey to full independence.

      I think Alex Salmond would have been, rightfully, very happy with such a result.

    59. It must be a ‘secret society’ thing.
      That this man is still trundling about lying through his crooked teeth beggars belief. That our Brit Nat hacks peddle his lies we have come to expect.
      There’s gonna be a revolution.
      Fat bloated New Labour Red Tories will be the first up aginst the wall, metaphorically speaking of course.
      It is recorded that Mandelson Blair, and the Red Tory Cabinet thought that Broon was as mad as a hatter and a psycho.
      Nothing’s changed.
      Still taking a salary for being on the board of his wife’s ‘charity’?
      This man is beneath contempt.
      He certainly must be a heid high yin in whatever secret society has him as a member.
      There appears no other reason that this old duffer is given column inches and airtime.

    60. Andy-B says:

      It’s disgraceful that the media give Gordon Brown a failed chancellor and inadequate British PM,so much room to air his flawed and antiquated unionist views.

      Does anyone take Brown seriously anymore?

    61. Capella says:

      @ shrodingers cat – you’re not going to tell me that the SNP are responsible for inventing the Labour Party.
      Blow for Sturgeon!

      But you’re right, of course. Apologies.

    62. Capella says:

      On second thoughts, a link to Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham would be more appropriate.

      Yet another influential Scot who is airbrushed out of our media.

    63. Rabby Burns says:

      I think Brown is a disgrace. He closed his eyes when the banks were giving away money resulting in the high house prices we have today. As there were no pay increases he MUST have wondered how people were able to buy houses which had doubled and tripled in market value.
      Was he looking at the revenue which would come in and the belief voters would vote Labour again because their house was worth more under him and his buddy Blair?

    64. Arbroath1320 says:

      Oh look peeps it’s the world’s “greatest” author he has another “fantastic” book to seel. 😀

      I seem to recall his last book was selling like hot cakes at the incredibly extortionate price of … wait for it … HOLD … erm … £1! 😀

      Never mind the airport book shops have him sussed out. 😉

      I wonder what extortionate price this new book will sell for … erm … 50p perhaps? 😉

    65. Proud Cybernat says:

      Shouldn’t Broon’s book have been titled:

      ‘My North Britain, Our Britain’

      Just asking like.

    66. Tinto Chiel says:

      A wonderful skewering of El Gordo, Rev.

      What a creepy irrelevance he is, and possibly one of David Icke’s Lizard folk.

      Surely Great Clunking Fistula is more appropriate, on reflection.

      *sighs, shakes head slowly*

    67. jfngw says:

      Here’s a man that can predict the intention of voters but somehow the impeding financial crash which started in 2007 was beyond his foresight, even days before it happened. No doubt his claim will be that it was all fine when he left office as chancellor and it was A.Darlings fault (or possibly A.Salmond’s if he can just find a link).

    68. geeo says:

      @david the diddy 2.28…

      Perhaps, since the Rev explained in great detail why your assertion is a river of dribbling pish, you could show details and a clear thought process, backing up your obvious nonsense ?

      You are rubbish at this…even Colin and kid Rock look clever compared to you.

    69. jfngw says:

      Well at least the BBC now has a sequel to Mr Brown’s Boys, Mr Brown’s Bollocks. A rib tickler about the head of a dysfunction group of flipping politicians as they struggle with the idiosyncrasies of a man who believes he is an intellectual giant.

    70. Chick McGregor says:

      How now Brown Vow?
      Who the hell believes you now?

    71. Come on, fairs fair, this man put an end to “boom and bust”.

      You decide which!

    72. Clootie says:

      A North British servant of the Union has his latest uttering reported by the Unionist press. A continuation of the same drivel this grovelling sycophant has been spouting for years.

      Brown like Blair are well rewarded by their masters in London.

      It is easy for London to “hold our nation fast” when they have so many “Scots” willing to act as their agents.

      Unfortunately this cretin probably did swing a large section of Labour voters behind the NO campaign by pretending to be a socialist.

    73. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Gordon Brown. Moral ‘realist’ or moral ‘idealist’?

      ….The distinction, introduced and discussed by Joseph H. Carens in relation to the ethics of migration,[15] is crucial for discussing the ethics of nationalism. In an idealistic approach, we evaluate behavior in light of our highest ideals, disregarding whether there is any chance that those ideals will actually be met. This is certainly appropriate in discussions of ethical theory that are concerned with fundamental justification. But in discussions of public policy, a more realistic approach is the appropriate one. It would require that (1) what we say ought to be done “should not be too far from what we think actually might happen,” and that (2) we avoid “moral standards that no one ever meets or even approximates in their actual behavior.”[16] These are rough but nonetheless useful guidelines. Carens suggests that in discussing the ethics of public policy, we want to avoid a “large gap between the ought and the is,” but he is careful also to warn of the danger of a purely realistic approach that makes no distinction at all between them and would acquiesce in the worst injustices.

      @Gordon Brown
      Do you support the state of Israel?

    74. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andy-B says: 7 November, 2017 at 2:30 pm:

      “Does anyone take Brown seriously anymore?”

      Do you mean seriously in spite of Gordon Brown or because of Gordon Brown, Andy-B?

    75. Ken500 says:

      Blair and a Brown should be in jail. An international disgrace. Breaking International Laws. Killing and maining millions of vulnerable people. Causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. Total hypocrites. Illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud. They are still tax evading millionaires. Embezzling from the public. They illegally and secretly used Scottish assets to fund their illegal behaviour. They have fleeced Scotland out of £Billions. Wasted £Billions ruining the world economy. £Trns in debt. The reason the world is in poverty. They should hang their head in shame. Instead of trying to make more trouble. Total hypocrites. Funded by tax evaders.

      Now the Tory mess. No wonder people in Scotland want Independence. Being lied and cheated by Westminster unionists for years. Since 1928. It kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Until Devolution. The SNP Gov standing up for Scotland. The tax evading, pervert unionists in Westminster starving people to death. An appalling disgrace. .

    76. So Brown has been writing his revisionist version of history, has he.

      He now believes bankers should have been jailed, so why didn’t do some thing when he was chancellor/Prime minister to ensure that happened instead of putting forward Fred the Shred for a knighthood for services to banking.

      He also claims America misled Britain over Iraq, I don’t recall him publically calling into question the case both Bush and Blair made at the time for the invasion of Iraq.

      Though I do remember he was prepared to spend whatever it takes in support of invading Iraq.

      And now he says there should have been a third option in the Scottish independence referendum, again I don’t recall him agitating for a third option at the time.

      Shouldn’t the title of his book have been ‘Britain for the British’ which would have been in tune with his xenophobic slogan of ‘British jobs for British workers’

    77. Petra says:

      You get really weary with this sh*t. God knows how you’re feeling Stu!

      Gordon Brown states that he wanted a third option but it didn’t happen. Then he came barging in at the last gasp like a manic mandrill, frightened the life out of the sick and elderly, and proferred the VOW which would lead to Home Rule.

      That was followed, after the referendum vote, by Labour politicians in Scotland basically demanding that as little as possible should be devolved to Scotland (Smith Commission) which resulted in us being handed an economic poisoned chalice from Westminster.

      The whole fiasco was finalised by Mr Brown’s smirking labour colleagues at Westminster traipsing in from the bars, in support of the Tories and Lib-dems as per usual, to overturn every last amendment in relation to the Scotland Bill.

      Up until 2016 Holyrood had control over 7% of powers. It now has control over 15% of piecemeal welfare powers, making them harder to implement, and 20% control over economic levers ‘cherry-picked’ to ensure that the SNP fail and become extremely unpopular.

      Mr Brown did achieve what he set out to do, imo. He is 100% culpable for duping many Scots into voting No by stating that we would get Home Rule for Scotland.

      As to Devo Max as a third option? Would they have put in writing beforehand all that entailed or would it just have led to another broken VOW?

      Brown should be behind bars right now for the part that he played in the Iraq War – decimation of the country – death and misery for millions and the banking crisis – austerity cuts – misery for millions – death in some instances. He should also have been taken to task by the UN for breaching regulations by interfering in a democratic election with the intent of manipulating the outcome (it should have been called off at that point in time, imo). But no he’s still doddering around lying his head off in his ‘rewrite history’ book. Worse still the ‘rewrite’, surprise, surprise, is being supported by the biased MSM with no questions asked.


      mike d posted the following on the last article ”Is there an honest SCOTTISH journalist anywhere in Scotland prepared to put honest journalism before their 30 pieces of english silver?”

      The short answer is no, imo. In light of this we should think of fundraising to bring someone in from abroad, admired the World over, such as Pilger to set the record straight. Fundraise to get him to produce an article on the biased state of affairs in Scotland: That’s the Scotland with the most powerfully devolved parliament in the world that has no control over broadcasting or the fact that nuclear weapons have been dumped on our soil. He may be interested enough to do so taking into account that he has a penchant for outing biased media and in countries that house nuclear weapons. Add to that we now have the terrifying prospect of Gavin Williamson being made Defence Secretary with responsibility for nuclear operations, policy and organisations. A member of a party that the Scots didn’t vote for and a decision made that the Scots had no say in.

      Just a thought, lol. If not him then a ‘foreign’ media monitoring agency might help. Might help to put the wind up the biased MSM in Scotland.

    78. Andy-B says:

      “Do you mean seriously in spite of Gordon Brown or because of Gordon Brown, Andy-B?”

      Neither Robert, I mean seriously period!

    79. Gary45% says:

      I think he should change his name to Mystic Broon.
      Like many comments, he should be in JAIL. along with Tony “War Crimes” Bliar.
      Can Mystic tell us what Fridays euro millions numbers are, or will he just tell us on Saturday morning.
      Unfortunately there are some who will buy into his bull shit.
      “Mr Browns Bollocks” CLASSIC.

    80. Robert Graham says:

      i was looking for the Broon fan club i guess it aint here .

      I noticed a name i havent seen for a while in one of the posts .

      COLIN aaahhhhhhh I havent seen his efforts for a while on his Holidays ? , or just giving us a wee break maybe .

    81. Petra says:


      @ Capella says at 2:37 pm …. ”shrodingers cat – you’re not going to tell me that the SNP are responsible for inventing the Labour Party. Blow for Sturgeon! But you’re right, of course. Apologies.”

      ”On second thoughts, a link to Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham would be more appropriate. Yet another influential Scot who is airbrushed out of our media.”

      FGS Capella, lol, didn’t you know that the Scots have invented just about everything you can clap your eyes on and that in many instances haven’t been given the credit for doing so?

      That’ll all change the minute we get our Independence. First off the Union Tacks (or Cacks) will come down and be binned, then we’ll make a request to the SG that someone is employed to compile a list of the ‘forgotten’ Scots in conjunction with broadcasting right across Scotland … around the World. That’ll put an end to the ‘too wee, poor and stupid’ myth for once and for all.

    82. Ken500 says:

      Aye. It would have been demo max or whatever. Then Independence. Still coming soon. No thanks to Brown and his cronies. Funding illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Billions in the world against the illegal,invasion. The £Trns lost in the Banking crash. Worldwide. Darling and the BoE were manipulating Libor rates that set the interest rate worldwide.

      Brown was the only one who didn’t know the Banks were lending money to people who could not pay pay back. Reckless lending. based on fraudulent commerial and housing prices, Totally inflated in London S/E and the Midlands. Leverage was cut. World reserves, international banking Laws were changed. Capital reserves were cut from 25% to 13%. Thatcher/Reagan etc. The Oil revenues are used to build up London S/E while the Scottish budget was cut. The Scottish economy decimated. ‘Loads of money bankers’. Donating to the unionists Parties. Banking fraud. Thatcher tax havens. Then the illegal wars etc. Brown thought if interest rates were kept at 5% it abolished ‘boom and bust’. When the banking sector was failing. He had the best advice and ignored it.

      Now Brexit. A disaster. Destroying the economy. These unionist ignorant incompetents. Perverts and tax dodgers. Hedge funds advocates and failed bankers in the
      UK Gov with £Millions in offshore accounts. Killing and starving vulnerable people.

    83. Arbroath1320 says:

      Just in case some folks have forgotten 😀 about the “genius” 😉 of wee Gordy I’ll leave some links about some of his “high marks” whilst in power here.

    84. Do you think he might be trying to line up a fellowship from the Center for Advanced Hindsight?

      (It’s a real organisation, apparently: )

    85. Capella says:

      @ Petra – I confess to being very ignorant about the early days of the peoples’ parties. How wonderful it would be to have a broadcasting service which could reflect our story for us.
      So much catching up to do. 🙂

      On another topic – I was very touched by the statement of Nicola Sturgeon in Holyrood today, apologising for the historic criminalisation of gay men. There were some in the gallery who were clearly overwhelmed by the recognition of the hurt they had endured.

      I watched it on the Scottishparliamenttv site but not sure that an archived version is available yet.

    86. Donald Made says:

      Ah the great Gordon is still alive ! Where to start ?

      I’d rather not .

    87. CameronB Brodie says:

      I did my introduction to sociology under Professor David McCrone, so I’m ashamed to admit I haven’t read any of his latest work. However, I’d imagine he wouldn’t be too happy if he’s being misrepresented. A common hazard when dealing with the British Unionist Media (BUM).

      David McCrone: The Scottish referendum – what’s nationalism got to do with it?

    88. Chick McGregor says:

      On the subject of polls interpretation.

      From memory, one academic article I recall on indy polling back in the day quoted an ICM poll of Jan 2000 for the Scotsman as indicating support for independence at just 23% but failed to mention that elsewhere in the same poll another question on indy, one which only had the two options indy v status quo, showed support (neglecting DKs) at more that 52%.

      I have cut and paste the two questions from the ICM archive and put them side by side so you can see what I am talking about.

      My memory, however, does not extend to confirming whether that article was in ‘Scottish Affairs’ or a stand alone briefing report for MSPs or indeed who the author(s) were for certain and the archives are all paywall protected these days.

    89. yesindyref2 says:

      Actually I disagree with the maths of this article.

      I’m presuming it would have been like an STV type of format of question, or some sort of complicated gateway as Curtice suggested around the time in 2012. Which means Independence supporters could have supported Devo-Max AND Independence. I’d have voted YES to both, and I doubt the majority of Indy supporters would have voted “the whole cake or none at all”, though some might. I’d have seen it as a step on the way, and inevitably leading to Indy sooner than later.

      Sorry Rev, very unusually your article is wrong.

    90. David says:

      @geeo the knowall 3.28…

      I don’t think you need me to clarify anything. Your fantastic skill set already includes being able to spot diddies, rivers of dribbling pish and obvious nonsense. I feel no need to add anything.

    91. yesindyref2 says:

      What that figure of 78% shows, and I think it probably is right, is that support for abolishing Holyrood which was for a time between 8% and 10%, and support for the status quo which had ranged between say 22% and 28%, for a combined 33%, had dropped right down to 22% by the time of the Referendum.

      Which highlights even more, the battle between the two sides for the “devo-max” (or more pwoers) vote. But it also highlights that the pool for support for Indy in the 14th March 2018 Independence Referendum number 2, is potentially 78% – or more.

    92. yesindyref2 says:

      “14th March 2018 ” – 14th March 2019 🙁

    93. Alba woman says:

      Gordon Brown ‘ Son of the Manse’ with all that means, was considered the leading intellectual alongside Donald Dewar in the cult organisation of the Labour Party…..folk pandered to their huge egos while others, who were less impressed, were politically stifled By cult members. ‘Uppity’ Women were beyond the pale.

      While doing the school holidays for my grandchildren living in the south east of England,I was mortified when The Gordon was prime minister. The whole thing was a shambles from beginning to end. Very large Brown paper bag time Gordon. The English folk I met were totally bemused by him and his lack of intellect and political direction. As ever the Scots were having to put up with a load of Labour rubbish…….Panto politics……Gordon as Baron Hardup.

    94. yesindyref2 says:

      Onyways, today:

      “Gordon Brown: Salmond ‘unhelpful’ in initial aftermath of Glasgow terrorist attack”

      What a klutz, because the Scottish Police whatever they were called then, had a four D approach in the OCCTU which inlcuded terrorism, including local police, councils and community groups, praised internationally by the way, they were quickly able to establish it wasn’t an organised attack, and their duty – and Salmond’s – was to defuse any possibility of a backlash against the Asian community – and that’s exactly what they and he did. That’s unlike “down south” in previous terrorist attacks where, from memory, there was considerable amounts of backlash – while Brown was PM as well.

      So in statistical terms, Salmond was 100% correct in his action and priority, and Brown was and is 100% an eejit.

    95. dandy dons 1903 says:

      Gordon Brown by name, Gordon Clown by nature. Another british nationalist fool to himself and it seems history revisionist.

    96. galamcennalath says:

      The survey above, “elected parliament with some tax raising powers” … whatever happened to DevoMAX?

      The implication of the VOW and associated media campaign was ‘devolution to the maximum’ ie no suggestion of limited tax raising powers. Scotland undoubtedly was sold DevoMax in 2014.

      This didn’t come out of the blue. In the early days of planning the Indy campaign the Scottish government offered a DevoMax option if other groups wished to push for the idea. None did at that stage.

      I’ve seen other surveys, though can’t remember where, but DevoMax was and probably still is popular.

      The problem, of course, is that WM has no intention of devolving sufficient control of taxation to allow Scotland to chart a different course while within the UK. Heaven forbid, we might make a better job of it! Also, there would be a loss of income to WM from Scotland.

      DevoMax was never on the cards, nor will it ever will be. That doesn’t stop false promises being made to maintain their Union.

    97. Tinto Chiel says:

      “DevoMax was never on the cards, nor will it ever will be.”

      Exactly, galamcennalath. I don’t know how any sentient being can believe anything WM vows.

      They’ll never give us anything other than “poison chalice” powers, such as taxation.

      As far as our masters are concerned, this silly Scottish nonsense has to stop right now, and for our own good, too.

      I just don’t understand why everyone in Scotland can’t see this. Or does Scotland have the highest incidence of masochism in the entire world?

    98. handclapping says:

      Every time someone uses a The descriptor I think of Joseph Pujol Le Pétomain. It seems appropriate this time.

    99. Famous15 says:

      The Inverness Courier invites “leading Tories “ to a 200 anniversary bash and include a myserious white powder to whet their appetite. Parliament partly closed to investigate the mystery.

      The Tories and their allies are full of mystery. Not even good for a laugh!

    100. Donals says:

      After losing power Brown rarely attended parliament.
      He did however continue to take his salary .
      I believe his unregistered charity had a particularly low proportion for its raised money going to its purported causes

    101. O/T

      Margaret Hodge ripping Lewis Hamilton and Isle of Man at the Commons about tax havens and aggressive avoidance and the underhand collusion of HMRC.

    102. Dan Huil says:

      Holyrood closed for a couple of hours.

      “… it’s understood suspect packages were sent to Tory MSP offices.”

      Just the usual three boxes of doughnuts for Colonal Blimp.

    103. starlaw says:

      wot no Murdo at the Inverness bash does anybody want him.

    104. Marker Post says:

      Did anyone else spot the caption on the first photo?

      “Gordon Brown helped to broker the promise of more powers…”

      He didn’t actually broker the powers, he just brokered the promise of powers.

      And we all know what happened after that.

    105. Fireproofjim says:

      Andy Murray and Roger Federer in Glasgow. now. On Eurosport 1.
      Should be fun

    106. CameronB Brodie says:

      Highland Wifie
      Here you go.

      Having reviewed the evidence, I’d suggest Gordon Brown is taking mince.

      Choosing National Identity
      by Frank Bechhofer and David McCrone[1]
      University of Edinburgh


      This paper examines national identity in England and Scotland, arguing that it is necessary to understand how people construe it instead of simply assuming that it is constructed from above by the state. It adds to qualitative data on this issue by discussing recent survey data, from the British and Scottish Social Attitudes surveys 2006, in which for the first time people are asked about their reasons for making a specific choice of national identity. In so doing it fleshes out the responses given to a well known survey question (the so-called ‘Moreno’ question) providing a greater understanding of what a large sample of people are saying when they make these territorial identity choices.

      The English and the Scots handle ‘national’ and ‘state’ identities differently, but the paper shows there is considerable similarity as regards reasons for choosing national identity. Both English and Scottish ‘nationals’, those placing greater weight on their ‘national’ as opposed to their ‘state’ identities, choose to do so mainly for cultural and institutional reasons. They are not making a ‘political’ statement about the break-up of Britain. At the British end of the scale, there are patterns in the English data which throw into doubt easy assertions about ‘being British’. Simply assuming, as some politicians and commentators do, that ‘British’ has singular meanings is unfounded.

      The future of the United Kingdom as presently constituted may lie in the hands of those who describe themselves as equally national (English or Scottish) and British. Devolution influences which national identity people choose in all three sets of national identity categories but these effects are sociologically most interesting in this group. Devolution seems to have encouraged them to stress the equality of the two nations in the British state, recognising that they are equal partners, that one can be equally proud of a national and a British identity, and that it is not necessary to choose one over the other.

      Understanding National Identity
      Book Review
      Anthony P. Cohen

      Chapter 1
      Frank Bechhofer and David McCrone

    107. yesindyref2 says:

      Been scouring around on google, after a kind Herald poster told me to set a custom date range on “tools” on google. Interesting reading, and found this (a little anti-SNP strangely enough) from 2007:

    108. Artyhetty says:

      I can still remember when G.Brown announced that the 2008 crash would mean hard times for people.

      Some people were quite used to hard times especially in Scotland, not least due to Labours’ policy of not informing people which social security benefits they may be entitled to. They deliberately held that info back, and so many with children with special needs suffered doubly due to poverty.

      For instance, Disabilty Living Allowance, was always 1/3 underclaimed. OK for Gordy’s treasury accounts, but tragic for those who suffered because of the deliberate holding back of info by DWP etc. No better than the tories.

      Re; Petra@4.32pm


      Yes indeed, maybe my ignorance but I only just found out that Thomas Telford was indeed Scottish and designed many bridges in Scotland. We were led to believe at school in England that he was English, especially given the name of Telford the town in the midlands. You will find it hard to find any main commemoration in Scotland, of his huge engineering acheivements, though there are some around the world.

      I recently came across this scientist as well. Scottish, never heard of him until last week, happened to find by chance.

      Plenty to be researching about anyway.

    109. Highland Wifie says:

      Thanks CameronB

    110. Artyhetty says:

      The link doesn’t work, but it’s about D’Arcy Thompson, major Scottish scientist.

    111. scottieDog says:

      Always think a brown intervention sounds like an unwelcome bowel movement.

    112. dakk says:

      To further elaborate on the measure of the man I can exclusively reveal that back in his hey day Gordie used to receive a weekly blow dry at a salon on Great Western Road.

      I said blow DRY you filthy seedy separatists.

      There can’t be many among the male Wingers number who avail themselves of that indulgence,even back in the flamboyant 80s.Who knows though?

      That picture I think paints a thousand words about the conceit of the man.

    113. heedtracker says:

      Always think a brown intervention sounds like an unwelcome bowel movement.”

      It is staggering to think that as Chancellor of the etc, he had not the faintest idea about the likes of even Fred the Shred and his collegiate of City bankstering. It is only the biggest UK industry left now.

      Or, as seems far more likely, Crash knew exactly what the City was up to but said nothing, for a decade.

      Wasnt that Slabour Britjock Mr Speaker the one had the biggest expenses and spent the most tax payers money trying to block Westminster expense fraud from public knowledge?

      What a bunch.

    114. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Gordon Brown
      Thank you for drawing our attention to this good news for Scottish independentistas. The march to political sovereignty for Scotland continues. 🙂

      Paul Whiteman – Happy Feet

    115. yesindyref2 says:

      Nah, not me, once a month and trim back in the Unisex 70s. My hair might have been a whole lot little longer all the same.

    116. jfngw says:

      The difference between tax avoidance and evasion is merely a form of financial semantics. One is just not paying tax on your income, the other is just not paying the tax on your income by moving the money around before you get it. The latter is of course not available to me as the fees would exceed any saving I could make, it’s a special rich persons dispensation.

    117. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Always think a brown intervention sounds like an unwelcome bowel movement.”

      Isn’t that Brownian motion, scottieDog?

      I’ll get my (lab) coat…..

    118. jfngw says:


      I did go to Telford College in the 70’s when it was at Crewe Toll in Edinburgh, it’s now moved and renamed. Used to go to the Telford Arms for lunch, it had at the time, early 70’s, pictures of his bridges adorning the walls.

      In fact the only history of Scotland you could gleam sometimes were from the names of pubs, Allan Ramsay, Covenanter, as none of it was taught in my school. Although there was an inordinate amount of pubs dedicated to T.H.E. Grapes and I never found out who he was.

    119. Nana says:

      Crash Gordon the man who saved the world, well his own fantasy world that is.

      Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp says

      If a mechanic takes the brakes off a car who do you blame most, the driver for going too fast and crashing, or do you blame the mechanic for making the car unsafe?

    120. dakk says:

      @Yesindyref2 said

      ‘Nah, not me, once a month and trim back in the Unisex 70s’

      Very brave to ‘come out’like that.

      Suspect there will be a few more on here with dirty little secrets from the friseur not man enough to tell 🙂

    121. Andy-B says:

      Madrid to keep Article 155 on stand-by in Catalonia after the 21st of December election.

      Direct rule from Madrid appears to be on the cards, if the vote doesn’t favour the fascist regime.

      Meanwhile, and I had to read this twice to believe it. The fascist Spanish Guardia Civil all 10,000 of them, who are deployed in Catalonia are to receive decorations of the Order of the Knights for their recent role in Catalonia.

      You know the role, the beating, tear gassing and shooting of pensioners mothers with children and peaceful voters exercising their democratic rights to do so.

      The actual decoration is the Royal Order of Knights of San Cristobal. The rewarding of violent fascist behaviour, leaves me gobsmacked.

    122. Davosa says:

      I agree with Eck S. The Westminster establishment is on its knees. There is barely anyone governing as they continue to fight amongst themselves and Corbyn continues to do absolutely fuck all. We should finish the lying feeble Tory scum whilst they are down there and let the SE of England wallow in its and the Tories filth.

    123. galamcennalath says:

      The value of Brown interventions, from a Unionist / WM standpoint, is that he represents no one and speaks for no one. It’s hot air, but most importantly it’s hot air which doesn’t commit WM to anything.

      I’m certain he was central to the Vow because he wasn’t even part of Better Together. Anything he said could simply be ignored. Yet, at the same time they knew/know there are some ordinary punters who misguidedly listen to him.

    124. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, which to prefer, some old guy with a short back and sides, or some attractive girl gently squeezing the water out of your hair. Not that I was sexist or ageist of course.

      Days of flares, double-breasted jackets and floral ties of course, a la Jason King. I may even own up to the odd wiscot.

    125. Brian Powell says:

      That ‘ Royal Order of Knights of San Cristobal’ will become a badge of dishonour in the future, they think this all ends now.

      No Brit regiment carries a badge for Culloden that i know of.

    126. twathater says:

      @ Manandboy 2.26pm

      I concur completely with your interpretation , this ODIOUS person is once again being cleaned up wire brushed and touted as this great( ha ha ha )elder statesman by the corrupt , disgusting lying media in an effort to legitimize his shit and bizarre ramblings all in preparation for indy2,
      lets hope their belief is that if it ain’t broke don’t fix it the big man done it for us the last time so we must have a winning formula

      When i think back to his indy1 spoutings i was truly amazed at the amount of young people appearing on stage with him and the other BT’s , did they really believe their shit or are we really burdened with so many vacuous immature people unable to interpret lies lies and more lies

    127. velofello says:

      @twathater: wire brushed no, brasso’ed neck more likely.

    128. dakk says:

      @Yesindyef2 said

      ‘some attractive girl gently squeezing the water out of your hair’

      Enough already.

      Beknighted WM defence secretaries are currently being made to fall on their swords for little more 🙂

    129. scottieDog says:

      Brown’s antics are well documented in nicholas shaxson’s ‘Treasure Islands’.
      It especially focuses on his relationship with tax dodging companies labelled ‘clients’.
      Rotten to the core

    130. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Gordon Brown

      BritNat Clown

    131. dakk says:

      twathater said

      ‘this ODIOUS person is once again being cleaned up wire brushed’

      As it happens I know one coiffure who would not be averse to using said wire brush on the creep’s Barnet.

    132. heedtracker says:

      Rotten to the core

      One of Crash Gordo’s great legacies to the world, is the teamGB hedgefund. Hedgefunds aren’t new ofcourse but under Crash Gordo in No.11, they exploded in size and number. Does this matter? Even Teresa’s hubby’s a hedgefund millionaire.

      For a red tory like Crash Gordon, would have it matter that so much wealth was and is hoovered up and away from well, us working stiffs?

      Not at all. Most “dark money” in our elections, and referendums is not Russian or anything remotely sinister. its all just City and Wall Street hedgefunds, their super rich owners want to block any actual changes that might affect their money mountains, offshore mostly.

      A good example of hedgefund dosh being pumped into our democracy was ofcourse the removal of SNP MP’s like Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson from Westminster lately. Its much the same in the USA too, with giant hedgefunds coming in behind Orange Hitler all the time, taking out threats like the ongoing investigation of treason, Trump and his winning their last election.

      You’d think that with the BBC alone battering away at Scottish democracy in this farce yewkay, that would be enough for your average soft white handed City slicker but ofcourse its not. Scotland no longer believes a word your average beeb Scotland gimp says, unless they really want to. Therefore, Crash Gordo’s hedgefund dark money gets invested.

      And its all because of a son of the manse in Fife, because they’re always so honest and pure.

      If you say anything like this round a yoon in Scotland, they like to answer, well look at your precious Norway vile sep, they have the worlds biggest hedgefund. Indeed they do:D

    133. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      An interesting quote from Crash Gordo…

      Note that the logo is the English NHS. “Our” NHS?

    134. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      All this typing about “The Broons” reminded me of this:-

      A member of Groucho’s staff found the following note attached to the toilet door at a Sepultura gig at Q.M.U. in Glasgow –
      ‘If I were Paw Broon I’d be suspicious of the fact that none of my children look like me or each other (except the twins of course, whose resemblance to Oor Wullie demands an explanation from Maw Broon)’.

    135. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      For some reason, that post submitted itself before
      i could paste this link:-

    136. stewartb says:

      galamcennalath @ 6:22 pm

      You wrote: “The survey above, ‘elected parliament with some tax raising powers’ … whatever happened to DevoMAX?” and “The implication of the VOW and associated media campaign was ‘devolution to the maximum’ ie no suggestion of limited tax raising powers. Scotland undoubtedly was sold DevoMax in 2014.”

      I agree with you completely!

      Although anything short of full independence will never satisfy me – important things I want rid of include UK foreign and defence policies, and UK complicity in dodgy tax havens – there is also, fundamentally, the matter of lost trust.

      I wrote the following here on Wings in March this year: “… having had experience of how the Vow was adhered to, how the Smith Commission was conducted and translated into the Scotland Act, how the Supreme Court viewed the Sewell Convention despite it being explicitly stated in an Act, would we really trust the Westminster establishment and ‘system’ to deliver on any constitutional promise? The more complex the proposition – like federalism – the scope for Scotland to be screwed is huge. Keep it (relatively) simple – independence.”

    137. Jim says:

      Is Gordon Brown related to Stephen Daisley?

      Maybe a silly question but I thought as both their middle names are ‘fucking’, there might be a connection there?

      Stephen Fucking Daisley and Gordon Fucking Brown!

      They both like to ‘mock the weak’!

    138. Fred says:

      Murdo Friseur?

    139. Roger says:

      What a load of old sausage! The polls in early 2012 were showing MORE people favoured Indy than either the status quo or more powers for Holyrood. This is exactly why Cameron didn’t want a three option Indyref
      See here, page 3

    140. heedtracker says:


      Wow! So the torygraph git who decided to sue, over nothing, has cost both of them over a hundred grand. Who says the toryboy’s are not a blight on humanity?

      “When we started the defence fund, our “realistic” projection was a total of £12,000. That we eventually raised over £100,000 is astonishing. Equally astonishing, but in a bad way, is that my own legal team’s cost almost amounts to that – I will publish full accounts in due course.”

    141. Andrew says:

      Torcuil Crichton, excuse the spelling ,on Scotland tonight, what a bell end.
      Can anybody tell me why this so called journo gets air time.

    142. dakk says:

      Fred says:
      7 November, 2017 at 10:40 pm
      Murdo Friseur?

      Gie ‘im an inverse mohawk!

    143. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Tom Bower’s biography of Gordon Brown nails him nicely.

    144. Petra says:

      Alex got it right. Westminster is on it’s knees and as he said at the SIC on Saturday has nae pals right across Europe.

      Looks as though Priti Patel, who’s just jiggered off to Africa, will be demoted when she returns home, as per Peston. Good enough for her. Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s sentence in an Iranian jail could be doubled to ten years due to Boris the Clown. High time he checked in for some psychotherapy. Prince Charlie has also been exposed as having money invested offshore in a company he lobbied for. Climate change or whatever? The Royal family are on the road out too, imo.

      Great news about Craig Murray and Stu of course. Next up Andy Wightman.

      @ Capella at 5:18pm …..

      I confess to being pretty ignorant of the existence of many fabulous Scots, Capella. The Internet has opened my eyes I can tell you. The National too.

    145. Effijy says:

      I respectfully enquiry if its Browns Ham Fist that Clunks or is it his Baw Jaw??

      Didn’t regulate the Banks on his watch.

      Ruined the NHS budget with absurd interest rates with PFI

      Endangered our kids with shoddy PFI Schools

      Sold off the UK Gold reserves for a fraction of their value

      Behind the theft of Scottish Maritime waters for England

      Guaranteed to deliver the Vow (Wow!)

      Spends £10,000 per week on his charity expenses.

      Lie to Scots in the run up to the referendum with whoppers such as Independent Scotland would not have a retirement pension, an NHS, a Blood Transfusion Service, or a Transplant waiting list.

      The Creep is an out and out Bast**d !!

    146. David says:

      Actually I rather agree with Gordon Brown that there should’ve been a multi-option referendum – indeed I submitted a response to the pre-referendum consultation saying that there should be one question and more than 2 answers, with the result determined by single transferable vote.

      The problem with this is that the only politicians who seemed to be even mentioning the possibility of anything other than a straight yes/no question were those in favour of independence; and this was spun as lack of confidence in independence.

      I still think that if there had been a middle ground option (i.e. sharing only currency / military / diplomatic relations with rUK) and a voting system other than a straightforward yes/no, then that option would likely have come out on top. And although unionists’ failure to give me a “soft yes” option turned me into a “hard yes” vote, I’d still rather take “soft yes” over no!

    147. David Caledonia says:

      For the first time in years i bought the Sunday Post, i like Oor Wullie and the broons, on looking at the broons i thought to myself, that Daphnie bird reminds me o somebody, then i realised she looks like Gordon Brown in drag lol

    148. Hamish100 says:

      oh no —

      SKY News is reporting that oil prices will go higher than $64 a barrel as it is just now.

      It is the snp bad effect.

      Brown must hate us

    149. ian murray says:

      Given the state of the country and the fact that no one appears to have a clue what is going on, is there any chance we could just start operating as if we were independent,it could be a year or two before anybody notices

    150. Dr Jim says:

      That’s the trouble with being a slave of the Union, Gordon Brown will never be good enough to be one of them and because they’ve used him so much to do their dirty work against us he’s lost the right to be one of us too

      Gordon Brown is stateless and unwanted by both sides, his masters might as well call him *Boy* and we spit in his general direction

      It’s pitiful what a man can become

    151. Petra says:

      I’ve just been listening to QT Kilmarnock on YouTube. Kezia Dugdale states (around 30 mins in) that the Catalonian Government has a pro-Independence majority and therefore should have been allowed to hold a referendum. How come she’s said the exact opposite in relation to Scotland holding Indyref2? Her hypocracy and patronising and demeaning attitude towards the Scots just beggars belief, especially when you take into account that we have no codified Constitution in the UK, unlike Spain, and that Scotland is known to be not just a country but a Kingdom that entered into a mutual agreement, as they say (we think differently of course), with another Kingdom. Maybe she’s changed her mind since she’s no longer one of Westminster’s key Scottish lackeys? What about the MSM getting this clarified now one way or another?

    152. Petra says:

      @ Dr Jim at 12:35am ….. “unwanted by both sides.”

      Spot on Dr Jim. He was clearly used by the Westminster cabal. They snapped their fingers and he came running. Felt wanted after being out in the cold for so long. His giant ego in dire need of a massage. What a slap on the face he got when Cameron announced EVEL and yet he still yearns to be seen to be a Unionist main player. Detested by them, detested by millions in the Middle East and at least 50% of the Scots. What a legacy.

    153. Robert Peffers says:

      @Artyhetty says: 7 November, 2017 at 7:42 pm:

      “Plenty to be researching about anyway.”

      Sure is – for those who don’t follow links, here is the start of his Biography and his full name and titles:-

      Sir D’Arcy Wentworth Thompson CB FRS FRSE (2 May 1860 – 21 June 1948) was a Scottish biologist, mathematician and classics scholar. He was a pioneer of mathematical biology, travelled on expeditions to the Bering Strait and held the position of Professor of Natural History at University College, Dundee for 32 years, then at St Andrews for 31 years. He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society, was knighted, and received the Darwin Medal and the Daniel Giraud Elliot Medal.

      Tell you another Great Scot and my late wife was at Beith High in Cowdenbeath along with him. He took a great interest in her She was younger than he but she had suffered certain illnesses that interested him.

      Blockquote>“Sir James Whyte Black OM FRS FRSE FRCP (14 June 1924 – 22 March 2010) was a Scottish Physician and pharmacologist. Black established a Veterinary Physiology department at the University of Glasgow, where he became interested in the effects of adrenaline on the human heart.

      He went to work for ICI Pharmaceuticals in 1958 and, while there, developed propranolol, a beta blocker used for the treatment of heart disease. Black was also responsible for the development of cimetidine, a H2 receptor antagonist, a drug used to treat stomach ulcers. He was awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1988 for work leading to the development of propranolol and cimetidine.

      “Wee”, Scotland has given much to the World that we can be proud of. No other country in the World has contributed so much on a per capita basis.”

    154. Capella says:

      The Stony One must be at the pictures tonight. Or a branch meeting.

      So pleased that Craig Murray has survived the Court ordeal with dignity.
      Hope Andy Wightman is soon free of the ridiculous claims against him too.

    155. schrodingers cat says:

      massive crowds in perpignan, france, demanding referendum on northern catalan independence from france

      macron stunned

      ca commence

    156. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ianmurray (12.33) –

      ‘…is there any chance we could just start operating as if we were independent…’

      Hear hear.

      It would send a powerful message to the undecideds to see some competent, calm, long-term planning conducted in a civilised manner.

    157. Alex Clark says:

      Brown is yesterdays man, we need no longer pay attention.

    158. Petra says:

      @ SC at 1:20am …. “United Catalonia.”

      Jeezo SC. I see that the French are carrying ‘Free the Political Prisoners’ banners. The EU must be quaking in its boots and wondering if it could have / should have done things differently. It may also get some Scots to waken up to the reality that not everyone wants to continue to be subjugated by their big bully boy neighbour. It’ll no doubt be giving T May ‘now is not the time’ food for thought too, especially if Northern England decides to join us …. and Wales, Cornwall and Gibraltor, lol.

    159. Alex Clark says:


      I’m very pleased that Criag Murray has settled his legal case at no cost to himself. Sure this took the power of over 5000 contributors to his appeal but it shows we will not be messed about. We’ve yet to win one and so far it looks like two draws.

      Crowdfunding though will change the way the law works, we the small man have a voice when we work together. That has to scare them.

    160. Grouse Beater says:

      Some news of Catalonia here:

    161. Nana says:

      EU eyes tough Brexit transition terms

      End these offshore games or our democracy will die

      What chance is there for the country?
      Video here

    162. Ken500 says:

      Daily Mail lowlives. Fleecing people. So called ‘Liberal’ journalists. Just a bunch of total
      Poseurs fleecing the public. Supporting illegal wars, causing the worst migration crisis in Eurooe since the 11WW. Killing and maiming millions and starving the vulnerable to death. So they can tax evade. The non Dom owners are a disgrace. Now Brexit. Appalling. It will cost more for less rights and no say in decision making. The Tory ignorant incompetents.

      The English Legal system is being broken by greedy unscrupulous lawyers.

    163. Ken500 says:

      Hope Craig Murray stoods unwarranted criticising the SNP who are donating to support equality and fairness and are the major route to FFA/Independence. Standing up for Scotland. Against the Tories etc. Stops deleting and banning. ‘Free speech?’.etc

      It’s OK on the few sites that supports Scottish Independence. From unionist attack.

    164. Macart says:


      Some great good news pieces there Nana, but on the more serious note of the Bloomberg article, it’s definitely a case of who knew?

      Long said that anyone who reckons they can predict what happens next is a brave soul. I suspect Mr Salmond has the right of it about now though, when alluding that there’s never been a weaker or more chaotic Westminster government. I personally can’t remember any UK government being so dysfunctional.

      Corrupt, venal, cruel, greedy, self absorbed, arrogant and ignorant, yes. Broken, chaotic and shambolic to this degree though? I suppose its a case of chickens coming home to roost, or Karma doing what it does best right enough, but jinkies they’ve managed it in quite spectacular fashion.

      Indyref fallout, Brexit omnishambles, austerity ideology, snap GE facepalm, sex scandals, ministers collapsing like nine pins and going off reservation, cabinet splits, foreign office gaffs and international embarrassment. It’s going off in all directions and all at the same time.

      Yet they’re looking for backing, unity and loyalty from the populations of the UK THEY have manipulated, betrayed on almost every conceivable level and catastrophically failed.

      If you took this premise, this scenario, as a book to a publisher less than ten years ago, you’d have been laughed out of the room. Today? Like I said, you’d be brave to state that this is as mad (or as bad) as it gets.

    165. Nana says:

      Good morning Macart

      It’s difficult to find any good news right now. Through all the chaos the scotgov are ploughing ahead but of course little of that positive news is made available to the populace, only snpbad allowed.

      If we can not get a Yes vote after all these revelations, parasite papers, brexit madness, abuse in parliament then there is something terribly wrong. We need to reboot the whole rotten criminal system and soon.

    166. Ken500 says:

      Why is there so much fuss about RT. It might be a bit biased but sets an alternative agenda. Even a balance. Paid for by adverts. No one is perfect. Galloway? Turn off.

      Fox News, CNN and the State run BBC have been broadcasting their biased nonsense for years. The US/UK have been illegally surfing and decimating others counties.. In the name of ‘freedom’. Whose?

      Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Ruining the world economy. Stealing assets. It would be cheaper paying for them. Instead of paying a massive military bill and causing all the damage and destruction. Ruining the world economy. Starving and killing people including thei own citizens. Vast sums of pubic money and tax evaded money has gone into totally biased BBC, Fox and CNN. Murdoch illegally bribing public officials and hacking people. Illegal surveillance. A crime in the US (citizen) anywhere in the world. Just getting away with it. The Laws not enforced.

      The UK/US have been illegally surveilling the world. Breaking the Law and collecting vast irrelevant data which has to be stored. Open to abuse. At vast cost. Attacking their own citizens.

      The Russians save the West in the 11WW. 26Millions Russians died. The Russian economy was devastated. The basis of the EU was founded to stop wars and starvation in Europe. To produce enough food and protection Etc. Equal free trade. In that it has been successful. Except Thatcher’s tax havens and tax evasion. Now being sorted out by the EU. Illegally supported by the UK.

    167. gus1940 says:

      When the Panama Papers were released there was much huffing and puffing, jumping up and down and general expressions of disgust and demands that ‘something must be done’.

      Has anything been done? Like hell it has and we can expect the same once the current hoohah re the Paradise Papers has died down.

    168. galamcennalath says:

      stewartb says:
      At 10:27pm

      Keep it (relatively) simple – independence.

      Yes, there are two constitutional paths ahead for Scotland – we do, or we don’t make all our own decisions. That amounts to full independence, or limited devolution. Any more-devolution / Indy-lite / federal solutions will be completely unacceptable to WM and England. They will never happen.

      That doesn’t mean a third way won’t be tangled tantalisingly at the edge of the table just to get us to reject Indy, again.

      “simple” is important. We know, where Scotland is concerned, WM are a bunch of devious, underhand, scheming barstards. All Unionist parties. Now there is another layer we know about because of Brexit – they are utterly incompetent when making big decisions and negotiating. They couldn’t actually achieve a working federal system even if they wanted to!

      Aye, keep it simple, Indy is the way ahead. ASAP.

    169. Breeks says:

      Macart says. 07:59

      “…. I personally can’t remember any UK government being so dysfunctional.

      Corrupt, venal, cruel, greedy, self absorbed, arrogant and ignorant, yes. Broken, chaotic and shambolic to this degree though? I suppose its a case of chickens coming home to roost, or Karma doing what it does best right enough, but jinkies they’ve managed it in quite spectacular fashion….

      I agree 100%

      However I cannot avoid the feeling that Scottish Sovereignty would be the wire rope going taught that is strong to pull Scotland free of the utter mess.

      I am profoundly confused that the issue of sovereignty seems to be so far off the radar amongst the people who ought to be “drawing it like a gun” to quote a line from True Grit.

      If Michel Barnier only once recognised Scotland as competent to hold sovereign discussions and enter sovereign agreements, then suddenly the terrible anxieties of Brexit are greatly diminished.

      If the issue of sovereignty was understood, Europe would would be able to engage with Scotland as a formal interlocutor in international protocols. As Westminster botches it’s xenophobic isolationism, Scotland could be building bridges for closer integration with Europe.

      Sovereignty understood becomes a referendum understood, an Act of Union understood, Westminster’s Annex A Opinion understood. No more horseshit propaganda about what Westminster claims it can do.

      With Sovereignty a hot iron in the fire, Scotland could and should be taking 100 initiatives in every direction to enshrine Scotland’s Power in Scotland’s hands. With recognised sovereignty, Scotland can set up its own broadcast news – not to silence the BBC, but to shame it with the truth. With an honest, broadcast narrative, strict avoidance of propaganda, Scotland can indulge our democracy on our terms, not Westminster’s or the BBC’s.

      Sovereignty is NOT conditional upon a democratic mandate. That is a myth. Sovereignty is the thing you must have to make the vote binding. Sovereignty is a legal definition of status. If we exit the Union by our choice, we are sovereign. That’s clear and understood. BUT, if we remain in the Union BY OUR CHOICE we are still sovereign! It is our decision binding us there, but that is the very sovereignty which needs distinct recognition.

      Sovereignty is NOT a UDI. Not for Scotland. Ironically, by waiting for an electoral majority to then declare Independence is making that Independence a UDI, and trusting democracy to make it legitimate. Heads up! Is that not precisely what Catalonia understood too??? That is a strategy which does not understand the monumental importance of Scotland’s sovereignty. If we can succeed in having Scotland’s ancient sovereignty recognised, even recognised still chained inside the Union, it is still legal sovereignty and we can go forward with confidence that Scotland is in ultimate control of its own destiny.

      We are running out of time. If Scotland’s elected government will not act upon Scottish Sovereignty and squander the time we have without making our sovereignty safe, then we must leave them behind, and the Scottish people will have to do it themselves.

      Catalonia’s plans have all gone wrong, that’s despite putting over a million people on the streets, asking for democratic protocols but being rebuffed, proceeding with a referendum regardless, enduring Fascist intimidation with stoic resilience, and delivering a majority in spite of ballots being stolen and voters who did succumb to intimidation.

      What Catalonia neglected, and to date, what Scotland is neglecting, is the vital significance of sovereignty. If you fight the law, the law wins. What we must do is make Sovereignty an issue of Scots Law, not Westminster’s.

    170. galamcennalath says:

      ” Brexit: NHS England boss demands £350m-a-week promised by Leave voters “

      Err no!

      That £350 should be divided up among the four UK health services in accordance with Barnett. NHS England should be due about £300m-a-week.

      And the pot at the end of the rainbow is governed by Barnett consequences too, while we are discussing mythical treasure. 🙂

    171. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      EU eyes tough Brexit transition terms

      “Several officials who spoke to Reuters said Britain would have to abide by all EU laws in the transition period, even if they are changed during that period, but would have no influence over them.”

      No surprise there. Or, do the Brexit fantasists imagine they can have a cake and eat it, cherry picked, bespoke transition arrangement too!? And thus it could be a surprise in some quarters.

      Those who actually don’t want Brexit, want as long a transition as possible because they know it will effectively mean full single market membership and no disruption. I note Ireland are suggesting five years.

      The converse logic must imply those who do want Brexit, won’t accept the only likely transition deal.

      This perhaps touches on the real problem – genuine Brexiteers don’t want the only deals which are likely to be on offer! A transition which is effectively the status quo for years isn’t what they want. A ‘simple’ EEA trade deal isn’t what they want. A protracted five year negotiation to achieve a Canada style trade deal isn’t what they want.

      England’s national exceptionalism and entitlement complex is about to take a hammering!

    172. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT My attention was drawn to a piece in yesterdays herald about Neil Oliver – describing him as an historian , it went on to say that he had received online abuse about his appointment as chairman of the SNTS.

      He said insults by anonymous folk were like water off a ducks back , however it made me search for his comments insulting almost half the population and Alex Salmond and Ms Sturgeon in particular – so before and after the union ‘won’.

      And very crass and insulting they are too – with a very large audience since they were put in print in various newspapers.

      I’d like to remind the ‘historian’ that both Mr Salmond and Ms Sturgeon were ELECTED to their position not just ‘lucky ‘ to get a break.

      I would also like to remind the Scottish NTS that rumour had it that they demanded the removal of YES saltires and YES stickers from any of their cottages as they were a ‘non political’ body.

    173. Dorothy Devine says:

      P.S Since he has turned up again in the media , much like G.Brown , I am assuming he has a book to sell.

    174. Ken500 says:

      1/3 of Catalonia voted for Independence. 2million. (40%+ turnout) 5.3 million electorate. 700,000 not allowed to vote. Why? 7.5Million pop 1.5million under 18 years. 6Million.

      In Scotland 50%+? Support Independence. 85% turnout. Legitimate. 70% support full fiscal autonomy. IndyRef promises broken. Unionist politicians who oppose Independence last on average two years. The poison chalice.

      Herald columnists should pay their B&B bills. Tax evasion.

      Journalist and reporters Press tax evade. Remuneration from tax evading Non Doms . BBC ‘celebrities’ prima donnas set up companies for remuneration from public money. £3.7Billion. Half goes to funding estate facilities.

    175. Les Wilson says:

      What an shambles of a government the Tories have created.
      Mayhem is weak and almost powerless,but she still has many advisers at her call. However, the capabilities of her advisers do not cut it either.

      Alex Salmond was right, there has never been such a dysfunctional government in the UK, at least not in recent memory or perhaps ever.
      They are falling apart so quickly it can be seen, and we do not have an ending with more scandals sure to come.

      Their true colours are not just showing, they are hanging over their heads. Yet “shame” to Tories is just a thing to be “managed”, but this time they are worried, seriously so.

      Not so manageable this time I think, they are ruining the UK, if they have not already done so. All the UK population must be stunned, as much as we are in Scotland, they will have to go soon. Given that, we need to remember what rats do when cornered, and rats they certainly are.

      Although I do not see Corbyn making much difference, he has his own problems which he may or may not overcome and a lack of quality in his cabinet.
      There is a REAL chance of Indy2 capitalising on this mess, we really need to grasp it.

    176. Robert Graham says:

      o/t fame indeed Stu ,a mention on google chrome on the I pad it’s a short appraisal of news items below the search box on the I pad , and there it is top of the list Wings and Broon , it’s probably confined to my search history and wont show up on other peoples but anyway thats a first ,small steps but progress .

    177. Robert Peffers says:

      @schrodingers cat says: 8 November, 2017 at 1:20 am:

      “massive crowds in perpignan, france, demanding referendum on northern catalan independence from france.”

      For those not familiar with the history :-

      Historically the Principality of Catalonia straddled the modern border. between France and Spain but after the French beat Spain at the Battle of Dunkirk in 1658, a treaty ceded the northern parts of Catalonia to the French crown, and the area has remained under the control of Paris ever since. That translates as the then state of Catalonia was split between France and Spain.

      Thus they are ethnically Catalans on both sides of that France/Spain border and indeed many families have members in both Spain and France.

      Looks like the situation, from an EU Parliamentary perspective, is taking a step that those EU and EC leaders had not anticipated.

      Looks rather like some fingers have just got themselves burned by sticking themselves where they should not have been stuck.

    178. Proud Cybernat says:

      Mr & Mrs…

    179. David Caledonia says:

      Ah don’t think people shood stand for aw this stuff comin oot o westminster, anywan interested ava a a lot o good chairs fur sale lol

    180. Robert Graham says:

      o/t again – As other people have mentioned, This Tory government are definitely defying Gravity, even one of the controversies that they have been involved in would have seen the demise of any other administration,
      Alex Salmond is right they are lurching from one crisis to another on now a daily basis, Labour should be at their Throat daily , or are they are they assisting because they don’t have a bloody clue either ,and are far from being prepared for government .

      I believe as ever there is not a great difference between these Unionist parties, and rather than Brexit being the problem it’s actually Scottish Independence on the horizon that scares the shit out of them , and Brexit is the cover, it’s never usually the headline it’s the hidden agenda that counts

    181. K.A.Mylchreest says:

      Here’s a post from Wales discussing the importance of having a broad-based movement for indy, or at least pushing for a referendum, in additional to a national political party. Lessons from Scotland and Catalonia in particular. Worth a read I think :

    182. Robert Peffers says:


      Hillarious Russian advert for Irn Bru:-

    183. Dr Jim says:

      The ramifications for Scotland post Brexit may not be published because they’re apparently too sensitive for the Scottish parliament to read

      However it appears the English parliament are far less sensitive because Tory ministers have already read them and decided that matter for us gentle souls up here in Stupid land

      This was revealed at the Scottish parliament today by someone called Mundell and a pal from the secret organisation of Brexit people who make all these really hard decisions on behalf of Scotland

      It’s gratifying to know that we won’t have to make any decisions at all in Scotland due to our inability to comprehend and take these difficult decisions, it saves our parliament so much stress and anxiety and makes the acceptance of our masters in Westminster that much easier

      The Sewell convention after all is only a convention and not something that’s actually real and meaningful

    184. Nana says:

      Alynn Smith MEP linked to this paper.

      He says I read this overnight, it’s an important piece of work from Andrew Duff EU and sets out the real dangerous territory we’re all now in.

    185. Greannach says:

      Brown must be thanking his lucky starts for Theresa May. But for her catastrophic performance, Brown would have been widely hailed as the worst PM of modern times.

    186. Ottomanboi says:

      Without major surgery the likes of Brown, Davidson et al. and their propagandists will never internalise the notion of our national independence. These Anglo-thralls are to be pitied for the tectonic plates of their ’best of all possible worlds’ have never looked more unstable. Let them slip unmarked into the ocean of irrelevance.

    187. G. Campbell says:

      Did Scottish Labour win a by-election when everyone was asleep or has David Torrance still not figured out how to use Google?

      “Just over two years ago, there was a lot of chatter in Scotland about a generational shift from Labour to the SNP. The former had recently lost all but one of its Westminster MPs to the nationalists at a memorable general election, and few – even Labourites – expected this to be a flash in the pan.

      “It looks rather different two years on. Yes, of the Scottish parties the SNP still dominates Holyrood and Westminster, but it has certainly slipped back. And Scottish Labour now has a more respectable eight MPs in the House of Commons rather than just one. So, is the Scottish Labour party experiencing a Scottish Tory-like revival?”

    188. Ken500 says:

      £350Million for the NHS? The Tories have cut the NHS £4Billion a year since 2015 till 2020. £20Billion. Cut education £6Billion a year. Cut welfare £3Billion a year.

      They are spending £40Billon a year on Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident and Heathrow. All disasters waiting to happen. A total waste of public money. There are cheaper, more credible safer alternatives.

      The Tories embezzling public money and tax evading. Consultancies. Legal and banking fees etc. Funded by tax evaders and hedge funds. May £2Millions of benefits.

    189. Welsh Sion says:

      Dr Jim @ 11.19am says:

      It’s gratifying to know that we won’t have to make any decisions at all in Scotland due to our inability to comprehend and take these difficult decisions, it saves our parliament so much stress and anxiety and makes the acceptance of our masters in Westminster that much easier.


      That would be confirmation of what Old Ma Lamont said that the Scots were not programmed to make difficult decisions, right?


      In other parts of this Disunited Kingdom:

      “A bit early” says the Minister Responsible for Western Colonies with regard to which powers are going to be given to the natives of the Western Peninsulas post-Brexit.

      Translates as – “I haven’t got a ***** clue what’s going to happen to you lot after Brexit (and I really don’t care.)”

      Sisters are doing it for themselves.

      Nicola and Leanne push for full disclosure of the ramifications of Brexit on their respective countries. Could it be as Dr Jim states, that they are too sensitive for us too poor, too wee, too stupid Scots and Welsh to be allowed to read for ourselves, and that nanny England is only allowed to do so – as she is over 18? Of course, she does so out of the goodness of her heart and not to subject her more squeamish charges to such unpalatable and shocking news, doesn’t she? Noblesse oblige and all that, old chap.

    190. Macart says:


      I can see the possibility of an entire day of ‘who knew?’ stories appearing on a regular basis.

    191. artyhetty says:

      Gordon Brown has an Avaas petition, yep, a petition to ask Argentine President of the G20 summit to put a stop to tax havens. Brown has said he will, ‘deliver it personally’. Says he tried to put a stop to tax havens when he was PM, 8 years ago. Wow, what a hero, saying such world inequality is not very nice.

      Obviously a caring sharing sort of guy. Argentina, don’t let him near your sovereignty! Turn the plane around if he is on it!

    192. Proud Cybernat says:

      Scottish workers being paid £200 less than English workers for the same work on new epic movie ‘Outlaw King’ about Robert the Bruce from NetFlix.

      Another Union dividend.

    193. Nana says:


      Par for the course. It’s almost lunchtime, how about some Popcorn?

    194. Macart says:


      Running low right enough. Some choccy raisins may have to take up the slack. 🙂

    195. Les Wilson says:

      Greannach says:

      “Brown would have been widely hailed as the worst PM of modern times.”

      He all ready has been called that, mainly in England. er, many times.

    196. Dan Huil says:

      Charlie Windsor for PM of England!

    197. Robert Peffers says:


      Wingers may be interested in what Fluffy Mundell says in a Holyrood Committee meeting today.

    198. Dr Jim says:

      David Torrance has also borrowed Jackie Baillies Abacus for his counting confirming the fact that not only can’t he write he can’t count either

      Of course it has to be said the people he’s aiming his scribblings at have similar handicaps and suffer from an impediment to comprehension

      He is an unofficial official biographer with a cultivated royal groupie beard, so much more gravitas there eh

    199. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Peffers LoL well Barrs needed a new angle Maggie Thatcher feked up the Made in Scotland from girders ads .

    200. schrodingers cat says:


      i often wondered in the last few years why that across europe, countries whiched formed centuries ago all seemed to be breaking apart at the same time. It wasnt just about an indy scotland.

      i finally realised a few days ago why this was……….. It is because now, they can

    201. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Perrers 12.32 thats it ave made up ma mind am buying masel a early christmas present a Waffle Iron , if you’ve any recipes for the mixture they would be welcome , but nain of the Fluffy kind lol.

    202. jfngw says:

      Nicola Sturgeon was born in Ayrshire and went to Glasgow University.

      Nicola Sturgeon biographer

      I can now put this at the bottom of every posting now, I won’t obviously.

    203. stewartb says:

      Nana @ 11:36 am

      Many thanks for the link below on Leave voting fishermen complaining now about the consequences of Brexit and wanting special treatment to avoid what they voted for!

      I spotted this yesterday thanks to Alyn Smith MEP on Twitter. The Grimsby Telegraph (6th November) reported that: “Seafood should be given special free trade status after Brexit to ensure Grimsby’s industry is not damaged, MPs have been told.”

      (Apologies for the length of what follows but this is an important case study.)

      The newspaper reports that the Grimsby’s seafood processing industry faces a number of Brexit-related issues – from a potential 20% labour shortfall to delays in fresh fish reaching the town’s factories, as well as import fees. A spokesman for Seafood Grimsby & Humber has called on the UK Government to arrange free trade status for the ports of Immingham and Grimsby in relation to seafood.

      (Alyn Smith, reasonably, highlights that Grimsby voted 70% Leave in the EU Ref!!)

      In return for such a free trade agreement for seafood, might EU members demand continuing and substantial access to UK waters for their fleets?

      Meanwhile for Scotland’s fishing industry Brexit is not a problem, just a huge opportunity – at least according to Mr Bertie Armstrong of the Scottish Fisheries Federation (SFF).

      Evidence to the Exiting the European Union Committee (Aberdeen, 19 December 2016) is notable.

      (See: )

      A representative of the Scottish Seafood Association (SSA) responded to this question from the Committee: “So the importance of tariff-free access is going to be high?” Answer: “Yes, without doubt.” But then almost immediately, this view was contradicted by the vocal, influential Mr Armstrong:

      “On the matter of tariffs for fish, the WTO average is 5% to 10%. Since the day after the referendum, currency has fluctuated just shy of 20%, and always does anyway in reaction to circumstance. The point we would make is let us not be frightened to death by tariffs at all. They may be consumed in the noise of currency fluctuations but some small tariffs would not necessarily be a disaster, particularly as the other side of that coin is that you may access new markets, for instance India, that are currently shut for you because of the present circumstance.”

      (And I could add to this SFF ‘rationalisation’ of tariffs, by implication, to hell with the negative consequences of a weaker pound and of tariff and other barriers on other people and other businesses in Scotland and the UK!)

      The SSA rep, concerned with the processing of fish, was also asked by the Committee: “…. the labour your members is employing are predominantly EU nationals. Is that a fair comment?” The SSA rep stated: “Yes, that is fair. We have a lot of migrant workers employed in our sector all over Scotland, not just in the north-east where the predominant processing hub is. There are local people employed as well but, like a lot of industries in Scotland, we do have a lot of migrant workers.”

      But wait, even this is just a positive opportunity! To the follow-up question: “It is a mix of opportunities and some challenges. Is that fair comment?” The SSA rep replies: “Definitely, yes, but ALL POSITIVE ones.” (My emphasis.)

      I realise that the industry in Grimsby will not have exactly the same concerns as the industry in Scotland but the contrast in assessment of Brexit is still marked. As the fishing industry in Grimsby lobbies the UK Government for a special free trade deal with the EU, the industry in Scotland is being represented by those that only see wonderful opportunities.

      This is despite what I contend presently are:
      1) no certainties over what degree of access to EU fleets will be allowed by the Westminster Government to Scottish/UK waters post-Brexit

      2) no certainties over what access the Scottish/UK fleet will be allowed to EU, Norwegian, Faroese etc. waters post-Brexit

      3) no certainties over what regulations the UK Government will deploy to replace the rules of the Common Fisheries Policy – and no certainties over what powers Westminster will permit Holyrood to have post-Brexit

      4) no certainties over what if any tariffs will be applied to UK imports and exports of seafood products

      5) no certainties over UK immigration and labour rules concerning non-UK nationals working in the fishing industry post-Brexit

      6) no certainties over whether UK nationals will be willing to take up the slack in the fish processing labour market given working conditions and current rates of pay

      7) no certainties over the nature of and time to conclusion of any new trade agreements that the UK can negotiate beyond the EU – and whether indeed these will indeed deliver net benefits for the Scottish/UK seafood sector over what it currently enjoys within the EU.

      Someone please reassure me that Mr Armstrong and others in this industry in Scotland did not vote No in 2014 to avoid ‘uncertainty’!

    204. Andy-B says:

      The NHS in England is in a right state and requires huge investment.

      Under current government plans the NHS budget is due to go up from £123.7bn this year to £124.4bn in 2018-19 – a rise of just 0.58%.

    205. Andy-B says:

      Meanwhile “Two Jags” son suspended by Labour.

      A key aide to Jeremy Corbyn, and the son of former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott, has been suspended from his job.


    206. Ottomanboi says:

      The Scottish diaspora.
      Nikolai Yakovlevich Marr (1864-1934) of mixed Scottish and Georgian parentage.
      Linguistic theorist of Soviet era. Noted pioneering expertise in Armenian and Georgian archaeology.
      May be described as ‘Anglo-Georgian’….but you now know better.
      Google him! Fascinating insight into our country’s far flung European links.

    207. Petra says:

      The National with support from hundreds of ‘private detectives’ are doing a grand job in an attempt to protect and promote our Scottish food and drink industry with their ‘Save Our Scottish Brand’ campaign. Scottish farmers have now joined the ‘club’, as they are totally enraged with what’s going on.

      Individuals who are scunnered with seeing the Union Jack splattered all over Scottish goods are taking photographs and sending them on to the National who then follow up the complaint. Join the team folks. Have your cameras / phones at the ready.

      Some examples of related articles:

    208. Chick McGregor says:

      Another consummate performance from Alex on Radio Shortbread.

      A master class in dealing with all the sleekit wee barbs and inferences.

    209. boris says:

      stewartb says:
      8 November, 2017 at 1:14 pm

      Nana @ 11:36 am

      Many thanks for the link below on Leave voting fishermen complaining now about the consequences of Brexit and wanting special treatment to avoid what they voted for!

      Grimsby is a processing centre. Not a fishing port. It sources its fish from Iceland and sells the tinned finished product to the EU. Its needs in the future should not be allowed to adversely affect the future of UK fisher

    210. Jack Murphy says:

      One of Ruth Davidson’s Tory Pals,right-winger Priti Patel MP,Secretary of State for International Development at Westminster is almost home to London Heathrow.
      Expected time of arrival 3pm according to FlightRadar.

      Next stop Downing Street?

    211. Robert Graham says:

      Petra – thanks for the National links .

      I again call on someone , anyone at the Nation to use some modicum of moderation of its online comment section ,day after day the same names disrupt any type of dialogue on any any every article , unionists have 99.99% of the media , why allow them 100% .

      Counter arguments should be welcomed but the dross thats allowed is just people taking the piss . Most of the nutters are refuges from the scotsman send them back they might get lonely .

    212. Petra says:

      Ha, ha, ha. Good one!

      ‘22,000 internet users are tracking Priti Patel’s flight online.’


      It’s no wonder they want to rebrand Scottish food and drink.

      ‘13% increase in Salmon farming jobs as Scottish salmon sales help UK exports hit record high.’


      ‘8% of the UK population and 28% of living wage employers. More evidence that we are different enough to want to run the whole show?’


      ‘Johnston Press agrees to vote on Salmond role.’

    213. Ottomanboi says:

      For Mr Brown being Scottish is a cultural inadequacy that may be rectified only by being British.
      He is of course proud of his ‘heritage’.

    214. Greannach says:

      Les Wilson @ 12:19 pm

      The point I was making is that he has been superceded in incompetence by Theresa May. I’ve actually heard that he has been named worst PM, er, many times. I think we all have.

    215. Robert Peffers says:

      @schrodingers cat says: 8 November, 2017 at 1:08 pm:

      “i often wondered in the last few years why that across europe, countries whiched formed centuries ago all seemed to be breaking apart at the same time. It wasnt just about an indy scotland.
      i finally realised a few days ago why this was……….. It is because now, they can.”

      Are you sure about that? I mean absolutely sure of that?

      I think it may be a wee bittie easier for some than for others but, lets face it, most of Europe’s empire builders are not so long practiced in the evel black arts of propaganda propagation than others. Nor, of course with quite so many paircels o rogues in their nations.

    216. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andy-B says: 8 November, 2017 at 1:36 pm:

      “Meanwhile “Two Jags” son suspended by Labour.
      A key aide to Jeremy Corbyn, and the son of former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott, has been suspended from his job.

      I’m not getting anything from but here is why … mibbies?

      From Exodus Chapter 20:-

      … You shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them. For I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation of those that hate me, and showing mercy to thousands of those that love Me and keep My commandments.

    217. Dr Jim says:

      I’ve been banging on about this food and produce labeling it seems like forever, but it’s not just the UK governments sleekit theft of our stuff alone, it’s the supermarkets themselves replacing everything Scottish with everything from everywhere else then placing it next to Scottish produce and selling it more cheaply, and Morrisons being one of the worst offenders

      Today in Morrisons apart from all the usual Britnat garbage on display and all fish imported from Grimbsby and brought to Scotland in a truck, we have folks, Peruvian Scallops

      Scotland the land of produce surrounded by nice cold sea full of quality stuff we want to eat and what do they serve up Scallops from Peru

      It’ll be English fried Paddington chunks next with a Union Jack stuck on it and a photy of Ant and Dec

      I don’t want eggs from Egglestaff, Bacon from Barnstable and Sausages from Scunthorpe, I’d like stuff born raised grown and fished for where I live because we’ve got Hunners of stuff right here and it would benefit Scotlands economy and not the thieving Wicker basket case on a bike that is England thanks very much

      The end

    218. Robert Peffers says:

      @Petra says: 8 November, 2017 at 1:55 pm:

      “The National with support from hundreds of ‘private detectives’ are doing a grand job in an attempt to protect and promote our Scottish food and drink industry with their ‘Save Our Scottish Brand’ campaign.”

      Indeed it is no more than time. Believe it or not this week I noticed that a carton of own brand UHT Milk that I bought from, “Farmfoods”, who, not so long ago, made a big thing of supporting Scottish Farmers, had a wee Butcher’s Apron emblazoned upon it and a text saying Product of the UK.

      So, o/k. they are not a Scottish Based company but they did make a big thing about supporting local Scottish Farmers.
      I only began using Farmfoods because ASDA were being anti-Scottish/Pro-England/UK..

    219. geeo says:

      The real cost of war in dollars and cents.

      American defence dept ‘estimated that the good ol us of a had spent around $1.5TRILLION on war since 9/11 2001.

      However, the actual official figure is closer to 4 TIMES that at $5.6 TRILLION.

      US spent $5.6 trillion on wars since 9/11 – study

      0r if you prefer…$329,411,764,705 /YEAR for each of the last 17 years !!

      Just imagine if even a fraction of that money was thrown at PEACE over the last 17 years, never mind the US economy !!

      That does not even factor in the local human costs where America has bombed/invaded/de-stabilised the crap out of countries around the world.

      That cost simply cannot be measured.

      To think, our warmongers at WM were PROUD to be involved in those disasterous wars.

      Shame on them.

    220. Ken500 says:

      Mark McDonald is the most unlikely candidate as a sexual deviant. Whatever is going on. Quite weird?

      There must be other underling issues for somone to commit suicide.

      £350Million for NHS? More Tory spin. The Tories have cut £4Billion a year from the NHS from 2015 to 2020. £20Billion.

      Another Johnstone gaff. What a total ignorant incompent. The Patel person is an absolute disgrace. Giving aid money to Israel. Secret meetings. They already are subsidised and supported by the US. A US military base. 122 nuclear warheads. Causing illegal wars. Destabilising the whole Midfle East and world economy.

      The US should stop sanctioning and starving North Korea for over 60 years. The Chinese help them out. Trump lecturing countries to stop producing nuclear weapons. The US developed them, used them and spread them.

    221. Nana says:

      Latest press release re Brexit

      EP outlines its red lines on latest UK citizens’ rights proposals

    222. gus1940 says:

      This morning I was looking forward to the Daily Politics and the prospect of a really juicy PMQs.

      However, neither appeared – Why?

      Was WM in recess today? If so Why?

      Even if it was given what is going on at WM just now why was there no Daily Politics?

      On a similar tack BBC Scotland have shown just how important proceedings at Holyrood are to them by dropping Politics Scotland from BBC 2 afternoon coverage all week for bleeding bowls – could the bowls not have been shown on BBC1 – it’s not as if the daytime TV schedules are full of riveting programs.

    223. Petra says:

      An interesting article in the National from Carolyn Leckie.

      ‘Carolyn Leckie: Constitutions are not tablets of stone – they can change with the times.’

    224. Gary45% says:

      Patel should be kicked out on her erse, along with Boris Fk Wit, no pension, no government benefits.
      She lied and colluded with Zionist Israel, I would not be surprised if she is Mossad, along with lots more in the Empire/WM Government. Lets face it Britain helped the Zionist to steal land from Palestine, don’t be surprised at what you find when you dig deep into the establishment and the Zionist cause. “Brexit anyone?”.(just a thought)

      Cause maximum chaos around the world, blame everyone else who doesn’t buy into your agenda, then reap the rewards whilst claiming innocence, they are a cancer on history, the truth will eventually come out.
      Iran is the next target, why? because Zionist Israel wants control of that country, just like Palestine.
      And as for giving aid to these murdering bar-stewards. GTF.
      Not in my name.

    225. Petra says:

      Full article from Carolyn Leckie:

      ”According to Biblical tradition, the ten commandments were engraved on a tablet of stone, later broken in two by Moses. Thus, they were permanent and could never be altered.

      To read and listen to certain members of our illustrious commentariat, the constitution of Spain is equally sacrosanct. How dare the Catalan Government organise an independence referendum when it’s against the rules laid down in a 40-year old constitution.

      Never mind the fact that the referendum had the support of 70 per cent of the people who live in Catalonia. Just get back in your box and do as you’re told.

      Unfortunately, that’s also the attitude of the leaders of the European Union and the USA. The governments of the United Kingdom, France and Germany have all closed ranks behind the right-wing Rajoy Government. Sadly, so too has the main opposition party in Spain, the Socialist Party. All of them demand that Catalonia should bow down before the Spanish constitution.

      Few people in power internationally are asking the obvious questions. Is the constitution fit for purpose in the 21st century? Does it uphold democracy? Does it protect the right of minorities? Or has it turned into an instrument of national oppression?

      I am a fan of constitutions. They are the output of civilised humanity. They provide clarity by setting out the ground rules through which organisations and societies govern themselves. I would hope that a future independent Scotland will be founded on the basis of a clear, progressive constitution that safeguards the rights of minorities.

      But constitutions are not tablets of stone. They need to be continually revised and updated to reflect the changing world we live in.

      Earlier this year, the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers, which owns the Muirfield course, finally modernised its constitution by admitting women into membership for the first time. It did so not with any enthusiasm, but only after prolonged and intense external pressure, which included a ban on the club hosting the Open Golf championship.

      Around the world 154 nations states have a codified constitution. The UK is not one of them (though that hasn’t inhibited the UK Government from staunchly supporting the Spanish constitution). Does anyone seriously believe that these 154 constitutions are permanent and inviolable?

      Take the very first of these, in alphabetical order. Under the Afghanistan constitution, agreed a recently as 2004, apostasy from Islam is punishable by death. When a man called Abdullah Rahman was sentenced to execution in 2006, after converting from Islam to Christianity, there was international outrage. His sentence was commuted, but the constitution was never changed.

      The Canadian constitution was interpreted by the Supreme Court in Canada in a way that reflected contemporary democratic reality – and ensured the people of Quebec had the right to decide their destiny.

      The Cuban constitution bans private ownership of the media and stipulates that the socialist economic system is permanent and irrevocable. Will the USA, or the EU or the UK ever denounce any violation of the Cuban constitution with the same vigour that they condemn the Catalan authorities?

      The constitution of the Irish Republic has been amended 35 times since it was adopted in 1937 – an average of one change every two years. The Spanish constitution, in contrast, has been amended just twice in 40 years. The first change, in 1992, was to allow European citizens resident in Spain the right to vote. The second, in 2011, placed a cap on budgetary deficits. Both changes were in response to external pressure from the European Union.

      Don’t get me wrong – there is much to be commended in the Spanish constitution. The strength of the Spanish left at the time it was drawn up ensured that it included basic provisions, such as “the right of all Spaniards to enjoy adequate housing” and the requirement that “public authorities carry out a policy aimed at full employment and a more equitable distribution of regional and personal income.”

      As it happens, when it comes to these clauses, the Madrid Government is in breach of its own constitution. There are tens of thousands homeless people in Spain today, many evicted by the banks following the economic crash.

      The country has an unemployment rate of 17 per cent, rising to well over 40 per cent among young people under 25. And according to the Catholic charity Caritas, Spain is now the most unequal country in Europe. Some regions, such as Extremadura, are among the most impoverished in Europe – not because of the industrial success of Catalonia and the Basque Country but because of the failure of central government in Madrid to curb the country’s bank and property developers whose greed and recklessness between 1996 and 2007 caused a financial catastrophe.

      Ironically it is precisely the failures of successive Spanish governments to uphold the social clauses in the country’s constitution that has galvanised the mood for an independent Catalonia that will turn its back on what the general secretary of the Spanish arm of Caritas describes as “a situation of neglect, injustice and the dispossession of people’s most basic rights”.

      It is a bizarre contradiction that the Madrid Government ignore the progressive clauses of the Spanish constitution, yet declares war on those who seek to change the regressive and outdated clause 2, which insists on “the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation.”

      The world has moved on since 1978. During that time, 45 new nation-states have been admitted into the United Nations.

      The Spanish state has also changed. In the late 1970s, Catalonia was still emerging from the darkness of Francoism when its autonomous parliament was dissolved, its language banned, and its culture marginalised.

      No-one under 60 today was eligible to vote in the referendum that ratified the constitution of 1978. Since then, new generations have grown up, their culture and language now restored to vitality, their horizons wider than the French and Portuguese borders.

      They have the right to self-determination, one of the central founding principles of the United Nations. And that means the right to form an independent state – no ifs, no buts, no maybes. There’s an easy way to get round the disputed “illegality” of the October 1st referendum – give the people of Catalonia an undisputed legal one.

      The Catalan people may or may not vote for independence. That’s up to them. But at the very least, those on the progressive left in Europe should be supporting their right to take that decision themselves through a recognised and binding referendum.

      And if Spain refuses to accommodate that by changing its constitution or finding another solution, then it deserves to be treated like a Neanderthal golf club that insists on banning women.”

    226. Petra says:

      @ gus1940 says at 4:34 pm …. ”This morning I was looking forward to the Daily Politics and the prospect of a really juicy PMQs. However, neither appeared – Why?…”

      I might have this wrong Gus but I read somewhere that Westminster is in melt down and did a ‘runner’. Can’t cope!

    227. ronnie anderson says:

      Child poverty action bill passed in Holyrood , SNP Scottish Gov getting on with the day job .

    228. Robert Graham says:

      Eh – Farmfoods been based in Blairlin Cumbernauld for as long as I can Remember , although it might have changed, everything else of value has been stolen so what’s one more, yer wee or big Union flag is probably used for export convenience , or part of a promotional bribe from the Scotland office budget , you stick a Union flag on it we give you a tax break or 1 pence a time, as our big neighbor is Engurland 95 % of the time it won’t cause offence, it’s just the moaners in Jockland that are pissed off but who cares what that lot think .

    229. Chick McGregor says:

      Murdo is the Scots-Anglicisation of the Gaelic name Murchaidh.

      The Irish-Anglicisation of the name Murchaidh is Murphy.

      It probably means sea battler in the original Gaelic.

    230. ronnie anderson says:


      I don’t agree with Tommy Sheridan’s brand of politics but there’s nothing here i couldn’t agree with hence the reason Im posting the vid on WoS to see what you’s think .

    231. geeo says:

      Great article above, thanks for that, Petra.

      If there is a single thing that really gets ma goat, it is these labour/leftish groups who claim to support brexit, not because they agree with it, but because they are “democrats” and as such, MUST accept the ‘will of the people’ as presented at the ballot box.

      However, those same styled “democrats”, openly campaigned in the 2017 snap GE on a “no Scottish indyref” ticket, despite the mandate given for one, as per the DEMOCRATIC WILL of the Scottish electorate in 2016, a mandate ratified by a majority in the Scottish Parliament soon after.

      Such attitudes are as far removed from being a Democrat as you can, short of living in a totalitarian state.

      Uk ‘democrats’ live by a very strange definition of the concept.

    232. schrodingers cat says:

      breaking, sevcos attempt to lure mcinnis to ibrox thwarted after their new sponsorship deal with Spillers dog food fell through.

      the sfa wouldnt allow rangers to play in a jersey with Winalot written on it 🙂

      Are you sure about that? I mean absolutely sure of that?

      no, and i take your point about the ease of transition for some emerging countries being easier than others.

      that flanders, catalonia and scotland etc, have agitated for their independence for centuries is not news, that they all make serious attempts to win their freedom at the same time is. it cant just be coincidence.

      what has changed for all of these places?
      50 years ago, spains reaction to catalunya would have been far more severe, but today, the eyes of the world are upon them. the catalans are also not alone. guy verhofstadt’s twitter feed is full of scots nats berating him. Before the euref, no one had heard of him and he had virtually no traffic on his twitter feed. but 95% of tweets to his account now come from us, verhofstadt knows exactly who we are
      we may not be capable of getting 500,000 folk to turn up for a march but we rule social media like no other group.

      it was the scots who invented the daily newspaper and we are being instrumental in theire demise and the emergence of these new platforms.
      all of the other groups in europe recognise the strength of the scots yessers on social media platforms, WOS, WGD etc can challenge even the biggest players in the MSM, this is a model which will be copied by everyone in years to come.

      case in point, gary robertson fell foul of the yessers today and is currently having a meltdown in public. many of our opponants (the bbc especially) are not just afraid of us, they genuinely feel persecuted by us lol.

      perhaps it is just that the moment is right Robert

    233. schrodingers cat says:

      love tommy, a good old fashioned rabble rouser, i know many dont like him ian b, but i think he is brilliant

    234. manandboy says:


      Since the SNP gained an overall majority at Holyrood and won 56 seats at Westminster, the Unionist status quo in Scotland has been in rapid decline.
      But now in England we are witnessing another disintegration, this time in the Westminster status quo, as the LibDems, Labour and the Tories suffer internal division and progressive collapse.

      Add Brexit and the political pantomime in the USA and there can be little doubt that the Status Quo is on its last legs.

      Whatever the future holds, there is no going back. No voters and Leave voters might want to take note. Hanging on to whatever security and comfort we had before in our brainwashed ‘good old days’ is not an option any longer. The past is not coming back.

      Voting Tory or Labour, both of whom are hell bent on protecting the British Establishment, feathering their own nests and screwing the population with endless Austerity, voting for those two is like finding comfort in the ticket for the Titanic in your wallet or purse.

      For those who have resisted the brainwashing of the British Empire (including the poppy propaganda) do vote and do vote SNP. Hail Caesar!.

    235. ronnie anderson says:

      @ gus 1940
      @ Petra.

      Mibee’s Pete Wishart’s point of order & letter to the Wee Smurff has thrown a spanner in the works , he can’t rule the Gov in contempt & thereby allow them to still hold a PMQs .

    236. ronnie anderson says:

      @ gus 1940
      @ Petra.

      Mibee’s Pete Wishart’s point of order & letter to the Wee Smurff has thrown a spanner in the works , he can’t rule the Gov in contempt & thereby allow them to still hold a PMQs .

      As for Daily Politics , do yous think the Bbc are here to serve the public lol.

    237. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Graham
      The National does seem to ban persistent offenders, like Molly Muff and his/her reincarnations.

      Personally I welcome the odd inane comment from one like that, it shows what the other side have for arguments – none. Sometimes when I’m around that time of morning, I’ve waited until one such comment appears, then (hopefully) systematically destroyed the posting they make.

      There’s one such keeps raising Denmark with its £50 billion reserves as the example for our own central bank (£15 billion would be more appropriate, even less). I love those ones, and am ready for them 🙂

    238. heraldnomore says:

      Recess at Westminster. Probably just as well.

    239. Petra says:

      @ Ronnie anderson says at 5:11 pm … ”I don’t agree with Tommy Sheridan’s brand of politics but there’s nothing here i couldn’t agree with hence the reason Im posting the vid on WoS to see what you’s think.”

      Thanks for that Ronnie. I’ll listen to it later when I get more time. Probably around 2:00am, lol.

      What I would like to say is that it’s too bad that Tommy Sheridan seems to have been sent to Coventry. He was one of the best ever advocates for Independence, in fact fighting against injustice and so on. I’ve never quite worked out what he did wrong, to be honest. Lied about visiting some clubs? Seeing women behind his wife’s back? Not trying to play the former down by the way, but whatever went on I reckon we lost the person who could have pulled this altogether.

      He’s one clever guy … ”In 2015, Sheridan graduated with a Bachelor of Laws degree from the University of Strathclyde, his third degree as he already has an undergraduate degree in Politics and Economics, and a Masters in Social Research.”

    240. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dr Jim
      In fairness there’s a high demand for food produced in Scotland, from restaurants and for export, so I think at times there’s a shortage for the home and cheaper supermarket trade. I say cheaper, that’s what supermarkets pay, not what we do, but that’s another story.

      Scallops are a prime example, restaurants all round Scotland have them on the menu and the tourists go beresk for them. Similar I think to Aberdeen Angus, it fetches premium prices.

      My local Morrisons did try UK branded milk at £1.10, alongside the Saltire, but I noticed it seemed to be left on the shelf compared to the Saltire ones – and this in a 75% NO voting area (I was pleasantly surprised YES got as much as 25%). Now I see none of the UJ milk.

      We can change these )(*)((s by not buying the UJ brand.

    241. Breeks says:

      Johnathan Lis putting his twitter comments into a Guardian article…

      We’re dooomed!

      Or rather they’re doomed. – If we pull our sovereignty rip cord.

    242. Scott says:

      I have just listened the radio interview with Alex Salmond speaking about the Journalist who wrote about the suicide of his G/Father did not hold back on what he thought of that Journalist by mane but we all know who he is a Twat.

    243. gus1940 says:

      After being in session on Monday and Tuesday WM is now in recess until next Monday.

      What is the reason for this 3 day recess.

      Just how many days in the year do they actually sit? – there seems to be an endless series of recesses.

    244. yesindyref2 says:

      It probably needs those few days to restock the bars.

    245. schrodingers cat says:

      wgd on form

      “So I’d just like to tell the net curtain twitchers of Unionism, and I mean this kindly, in the spirit of reconciliation, and with love, why don’t you just fuck off and find something worthwhile to complain about. It’s not like your Tory government, the equally hapless Labour party, and the glactofuck that is Brexit aren’t giving us all plenty.”

      ha ha ha ha ha ha
      dont hold back paul

    246. Hamish100 says:


      Tommy Sheridan isn’t that clever. If he thought visiting certain “sexist” venues with his brother in law would not come back to haunt him he was a fool. So was attacking his former political colleagues and friends. He let everyone down.


      Good for the snp in North Ayrshire attacking the labour council for using monies from common good funds for normal Council business. Surely this is illegal? Labour once again ripping the people off.

    247. Brian McHugh says:

      yesindyref2, I’ve been shopping in Morrison’s for the last couple of years (It’s the closest)… I have only once accidentally brought a UJ product… Only the once by mistake, as I naturally will not pick an item up, no matter even if it is the product I’m after, if it has a UJ on it.

    248. Liz g says:

      Petra @ 4.50
      Great post Petra,and I can’t say I disagreed with any of it.
      Although for ours I am no really in favor of things like “everyone has the right to”…..say….affordable central heating!
      That’s what I tend to call a left wing wish list and not because everyone should not be able to afford heating,this is Scotland after all you need heating here or ye will die, but rather because it is too subjective.
      And details such as this would demean the document,because it would then beg the question of where to stop.
      One human need can’t be prioritized over another.
      EG A century ago it could have been thought reasonable to include the right to affordable coal,or a Steamie within 5 mile’s of everyone’s house.
      A phrase like the right to life should …in theory cover it.
      We don’t want to finish up like the Westminster government,having a shed load of stupid Law’s.
      And certainty not in the actual Constitution!

      But while I agree that Constitutional changes are necessary.
      That Constitutions should serve the people and not the people serving the Constitution.
      And more importantly one generation should not dictate to another how society is organized….. the bit I struggle with is “how” easily should we make any change’s possible?

      In two area’s in particular,well three actually.
      Capital Punishment.
      It would IMHO only take a high profile murder or terrorist attack and a Farage like agitator to trigger a Constitutional change if it were too easy and referendum led.
      To agree to a war of aggression or to permit the State to kill it’s citizens.

      Thirdly,Being sold out Again…
      So if,and I think there should be,an article in our Constitution ordering that, our political leaders are absolutely forbidden from moving the Parliament outside Scotland, and any and all Treaties that involved Scottish Sovereign power’s have sunset clauses and must be ratified by a referendum.(it will be that Constitutional arrangement the any EU treaty will have to accept,.)
      Can we/should we,bind future generations to this?

      So therefore the process to enact a change to the Constitution should set a very high bar……then I look at Spain….?

    249. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – Spain

      “Spanish warship forced away from Gibraltar by patrol boat HMS Scimitar”

      The timing of this (7th November) is very clearly motivated by the political situation with Catalonia, as the Spanish Government’s claim is that territorial integrity is in the Constitution, and Gibraltar is a part of that as much as Catalonia is, as far as they’re concerned. In fact they probably felt even a “legal” need for the incursion, to back up their constitutional claims about Catalonia, and Spain not being divisible.

    250. Dr Jim says:

      Well it took our great Scottish media a while but tonight on STV and BBC news they finally got round to blaming the Edinburgh Trams fiasco on the SNP for not intervening to clear up Labours mess

      Oh and by the way even though Donald Trump is a headcase and a complete and total nutjob and everyone with a brain knows it, still Nicola Sturgeon shouldnae huv said so, says our great Scottish media, coz he might be coming here and whit’r we gonnae dae? Oh Uh pure riddy n at

      Apparently he hauds a grudge, Shittin masel

    251. Brian Powell says:

      A question for all, as members of the EU we are each citizens, post-Brexit will we be subjects? Remember MPs swearing allegiance to the queen, and there used to be talk of the subjects of the queen.

      My guess, if we are still in the UK post Brexit the Tories will be desperate to make us subjects.

      I have no interest in being a subject under Westminster.

    252. cirsium says:

      @schrodingers cat, 5.13pm
      re the emergence of small nations, here is R B Cunninghame Graham writing before WW1

      “Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Norway, have all seceded from greater powers within the memory of man. Finland and Hungary, Poland and Ireland, with Bohemia and Macedonia, all mortally detest their union with great oppressive states. Nothing but force keeps any one of them a portion of the great empires to which respectively they all belong. The whole trend of modern thought and economics is towards the evolution of small states, and every great unwieldy power, our own included, is on the verge of a break-up and a return to its component parts.”

      If it hadn’t been for WW1, Scotland would have had Home Rule 1914/15.

    253. Dr Jim says:

      Aye we live in a democracy alright, when was that eh Queen referendum thing then coz I didn’t get a vote in that

      Bit like 1707 we missed that vote tae

      Have we even got the receipt for that sale, time for a refund for
      shoddy goods

    254. Fred says:

      Tommy Sheridan never let me down, the guy’s a star & worked tirelessly for Indy, his speaking to three different audiences in Victoria’s nightclub at the same time was the highlight of my referendum. Nobody’s perfect however & taking cash from the News of the World was unforgivable!

    255. Tinto Chiel says:

      “If it hadn’t been for WW1, Scotland would have had Home Rule 1914/15.”

      Very probably, cirsium, and we were promised Home Rule by Labour until Attlee reneged on that after the 1945 election.

      No wonder the SNP won Motherwell in that year.

      Same old, same old…

    256. schrodingers cat says:

      cirsium says:
      the emergence of small nations, R B Cunninghame Graham

      probably true cirsium, events have conspired against us and many other small nations, least of all the wars. but don roberto was and still is right, the future is small nations, the Scottish spring will sweep away the old european order.

      guy verhofstadt is backing the wrong horse, these large eu states will never concede a eu military force. ever. where as these small states, like scotland and catalunya know very well what it is like to live next to a much larger aggressive state and would be only too willing to form military alliances, even if we are in efta not the eu

    257. geeo says:

      More cracking news for Theresa and her lame duck government.

      JP Morgan warns of jobs and business going to France.

    258. boris says:

      They have been after Green for years but is it correct that a policeman can order a fishing trip search albeit approved at the highest level of the Labour Government??

    259. Petra says:

      Young Mhairi Black continues fighting for the elderly. What a girl! A real credit to her country.

      What about Queenie doing something for her elderly Commonwealth citizens, instead of leaving it up to Mhairi?!

      Some ‘snippets’ from the full article.

      ”Currently there are 1.2 million people receiving a UK state pension overseas – but without any particular logic – 540,000 of them are unable to acccess fully the pensions that they paid for. The majority of this group live in Commonwealth countries and their pensions are frozen at the level first received, for the rest of their lives abroad….

      A 90 year old whose pension has been frozen throughout their retirement will still be receiving a state pensrion of £52 a week compared to the £122 their counterparts living in countries such as the USA or the EU are being paid. For many that is all they have to live on….

      Frozen pensions are a quiet injustice and a national shame…….

      All recipients of the state pension have made these contributions and it is unfair to discriminate against retirees who have made equal contributions based on where they live….

      Why should European Economic Area-resident expats, or those in Turkey or Israel, for example, get a better deal than those in Australia, Canada, South Africa or even the Falklands? It is absurd that ”Global Britain” should discriminate against it’s pensioners in this way……

    260. Free Scotland says:

      Priti Patel resigned because Theresa May didn’t have the guts to sack her.

    261. gordoz says:

      You really do wonder what the likes of Mr Hamish McDonnell will do after independence, ’cause there wont be much work for the servile non probing guff, such as this clown produces time after time. Will he stick around ? Vested interest gone, vanished into a murky colonial past ?
      Just what the hell will they do ? They make the dividing line so clear.
      “Independence is not the way. Will never be the way. Only our way the righteous evolving new Unionism we call Federalism Max is the way ?
      What is this ‘dingbat’ on ? Its truly beyond me.

    262. Another Union Dividend says:

      According to Alan McGee’s book on Creation Records, Kevin Spacey helped Labour in 1997 GE and invited to #10 reception by Tony Blair. Imagine what line Bbc Scotland / Daily Mail would take if he supported the SNP

    263. Petra says:

      An astrological slant on Treeza going down the stank, for anyone who is interested (or more than likely not, lol).

      The comment relating to the UK chart ‘….angst from transit Pluto opposition the Cancer Moon and opposition the Solar Arc Mercury throughout 2018” relates to the end of the Union…. ‘smiling’.

    264. boris says:

      Priti Patel Was Sacked today From the Tory Government for Privately Visiting the Golan Heights and Then Seeking to Provide Financial Aid to Israeli Forces but official visits to Israel by senior British political figures, the sensitivities are usually acute; embassy and consulate staff carefully vet the locations and personnel visited by British diplomats and ministers.

      Visits are always accompanied by diplomatic staff, with agendas designed to reflect UK policy – for example, making sure to include meetings with Palestinians and groups and individuals who may not be popular with the Israeli government.

      Patel’s summer trip this summer, organized with the head of the Conservative Friends of Israel lobby group, skipped all those protocols, despite a timetable that was highly orchestrated – including a visit to an Israeli field hospital in the occupied Golan Heights, which should have taken place only with both Israeli military and political clearance. (The Guardian)

      But Is Ruth Davidson’s group above the law – The Scottish Government should have required the “Tory friends of Israel holidaying group to resign since they also went to the Golan Heights without the necessary official clearance, diplomatic accompaniment or consultation with organizations opposed to the Israeli occupation of the Heights. Check the content of my blogs

    265. Caroline Leckie not the one that halted the demolition of some condemned flats during the Commie Games,stating that it was an affront to the ex residents of the condemned flats,

      fully backed by our Scottish Media who were looking for anything to embarrass and belittle Scotland during what turned out to be the best ever and under budget Commie games,

      `the ten commandments were engraved on a tablet of stone, later broken in two by Moses. Thus, they were permanent and could never be altered.` ????????

    266. Free Scotland says:

      From Priti Patel’s resignation letter:

      “The human decency, compassion and commitment they show is simply awe-inspiring and they are a credit to our ***county***.”

      Slip of the pen? Predictive text? Or typical tory small-mindedness?

    267. HandandShrimp says:

      Is it just me or is May’s government the most mental in living memory?

    268. @geeo

      JP Morgan one of the biggest financial players in the world said,

      “Our base case is that Scotland will vote for independence and institute a new currency at that point (2019),” JP Morgan`s economist said in a note to clients.”

    269. Nana says:


      Alex Salmond on the battle in The Scotsman Boardroom

    270. Ken500 says:

      ‘Taking cash from the News of the World’. NI ruined people. They just about ruined Tommy Sheridan put him in jail. Filthy scum. Coulson committed perjury at the false trial organised by the Blair and the Unionists because Tommy Sheridan and associates was taking votes away from Labour. .

      Coulson denied that NI was illegally hacking and bribing public officials. They were. If Coulson had told the truth Tommy Sheridan would have been acquitted without a scrape of evidence. The betrayal of the so called colleagues. Coulson ended up in jail. They even closed down News of the World to hide the evidence and not have to pay out damages. Tax evading lying non Doms.

      Tommy Sheridan should have been admonished and given compensation. Tommy Sheridan did more for the working class in Scotland than anyone. Fought the Poll tax and stop warrant sales in Scotland. That alone saved folk from misery.

      Thatcher was secretly and illegally taking all the Oil revenues from Scotland and cutting Scotland’s budget. Shutting down all industrial premises. Started a civil war with the miners. Leaving Scotland in poverty. Keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Thatcher had interest rates at 15% and unemployment over 3 million. Higher in Scotland pro rata. 80% of the military was from Scotland because of higher unemployment.

      People had to leave Scotland to get a job. Emigrate. Depopulating Scotland. The population has only gone up since Devolution 2000 since 1928 and before. Now the Tories are illegally chucking folk out of Scotland.

      Colin Clark was elected in the NE because people did not go out to vote. Another millionaire farmer getting subsidies. On the Council cutting Education and additional needs provision. Cutting £Millions from education allocation. Keeping class sizes higher and not recruiting essential teachers. The Tories had Oil & Gas sector tax at 40% since Jan 2016. Causing a down turn and losing 120,000 jobs and £Billions. Blaming the SNP for forty years of unionist fishing policies. The SNP not agree with. The fishing rep an ignorant, incompetent Tory from the Home Counties.

      The NE 3rd rate Tory/unionists. Landowners trying to run the NE as a fiefdom. Reportedly giving ACC £5Million for the extended Harbour development. They already got £Millions from the Scottish Gov to cover the cost. ACC Wasted £200Million on a disgraceful grotesque project ruining the City Centre. No one wants. Spending £300Million building a non mandate unnecessary conference centre. A new football stadium/conference venue is planned 5 mins away. Funded with private money.

      Aberdeenshire Council cutting £Milllions of allocation from education and putting up burial costs. They rob folk when they are alive and when they are dead. There are £Millions to waste on non mandated grotesque projects of no value. No one wants. Squandering public money.

    271. Lenny hartley says:

      Tinto chief, no probably about it, the Scottish home rule bill had had two readings in hoc, it was a formality , one of my mates reckons they started ww1 to stop Scots home rule.

    272. Alex Clark says:

      They’re now falling like dominoes, first Michael Fallon and now Priti Patel, next up? Well who can say.

      Probably Damian Green for the porn on his computer, watching porn in his office while “working” at Westminster FFS what are the Tories like?

      I never could stand that Priti Patel and am glad she’s gone, imagine a refugee hounded out of Idi Amin’s Uganda as she was and welcomed into the UK that can’t stand poor people or other refugees. The mind boggles, really.

      The way this type of persons mind works has me totally baffled. We in Scotland don’t want any of them working for us. May is the most incompetent Prime Minister ever and Boris Johnson the most incompetent Foreign Secretary. Yet they RULE over us and make our laws!

      Scottish NO voters WAKE THE FUCK UP! We need to get out of here.

    273. twathater says:

      put this on random public journal earlier


      November 8, 2017 – Wednesday at 18:02

      Unfortunately unless and until the working people grow a spine this reprehensible situation will continue , as politicians are colluding and ignoring the mahoosive elephant in everyone’s sight , they are the ENABLERS they who we elect to protect the citizens are lining up to participate and profit from this misery inflicting scam .

      Their incompetence in running and governing these islands to benefit everyone is legendary , labour , tory and lib dems they have ALL failed working people miserably

      One of the reasons why I want independence is to bring a Scottish government home to the people , to ensure that ALL POLITICAL PARTIES AND POLITICIANS are working for the BENEFIT of Scottish citizens not for increasing the wealth of corporations and their shareholders.

      I want a government and politicians ANSWERABLE to the people , I want NEW rules that state when politicians are working against the wishes of the electorate they WILL be sacked irrespective of their parties wishes . I want LAWS that enforce taxes where evaders and avoiders are JAILED not rewarded

      I want a government and politicians to be within ARSE KICKING DISTANCE and the ability for US to do it . I want a lot of things and the only way for us to get it is through INDEPENDENCE , the rest of the uk is fcuked they have allowed this situation to continue for decades by voting for the same corrupt parties , we have the chance to build a new progressive country governed by people who will be held to account by the electorate , their integrity will be there for all to see
      I want TRUTH , EQUALITY and COMPASSION it is achievable but first we need INDEPENDENCE from this corruption

    274. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Tinto chief, no probably about it, the Scottish home rule bill had had two readings in hoc, it was a formality , one of my mates reckons they started ww1 to stop Scots home rule.”

      Hi, Lenny: yes, all true, but being a historian of British perfidy, I chose “very probably” to keep me on the right side of absolute truth. Would you trust those Carmichaels?

      Your mate may well be right. I think the same of the rushed 2017 GE.

      But then I’m just a vile sep.

      Sadly, I’m no’ a chief, just an orra chiel.


    275. HandandShrimp says:

      I see that the Herald and Evening news editors are stepping down and Newsquest are combining the posts. Looks like further pruning of costs.

    276. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Graham says: 8 November, 2017 at 5:09 pm:

      “Eh – Farmfoods been based in Blairlin Cumbernauld for as long as I can Remember.”

      I just copied this from a carton of Cranberry Juice, Robert:-
      1507 Coventry Road,
      Birmingham B25 8LW.

      email info [at] farmfoods [dot] co [dot] uk.

      Which is exactly the same as on the Milk Carton.

      Now their on-line blurb say this:-

      “Farmfoods, a Scottish family business, has served Great Britain for over 60 years. From a butcher shop in Aberdeen we have grown to more than 300 stores and four distribution centres nationwide. We work hard to bring you the best value on the food your family enjoys and on the household essentials your family needs”.

      That address on the two cartons say that it is the Customer Care Service but it is strange to have the customer care service not at head office and there is absolutely no doubt that there is a Butcher’s Apron on the UHT Milk Carton.

      BTW: It is also the Address quoted on a pack of Bacon.
      I’m not about to start checking through the rest of the stuff in my freezers or I’ll end up with frostbite.

      They are a big company and I’d expect them to have offices World Wide as they sell Worldwide but as they claim to be a Scottish Family business I have to question the use of the Union Flag on even some of their products.

      I can understand it on such as proprietary products like Aunt Bessie or Heinz, etc. but the carton of milk was, “Own Brand”, Farmfoods.

      Which means they are actually importing milk into Scotland and perhaps even importing some of it back into Scotland after HHT Processing it.

    277. Alex Clark says:


      Thanks for the Alex Salmond video, he is one smart cookie.

      I really hope he is successful in taking the chairmanship of Johnson Press. Might even start buying the Scotsman 🙂

    278. heedtracker says:

      Herald’s on the UKOK down escalator, maybe they should take the SKY route to tory greatness, buy our shite or we’ll close down, and get proper jobs, on the beeb gimp network.

      Its amazing to watch beeb gimp propagandists faff about over this latest tory catastrofuck too.

      Beeb r4 gimp network chuntering on about world’s greatest pervert and his do as say or I’ll kill myself,

      23 hours ago – The news channel could be shut if it hampers 21st Century Fox’s acquisition … Sky has threatened to shut down Sky News if the news channel …

      Beeb r4 vote tory news gimps are interesting in that they now use Fox news as their go to, in the USA, just like what Orange Hitler does, or as they call them “other voices” in the US, by other voices they mean neo fascist Murdoch’s US.

    279. Alex Clark says:


      It’s not just pruning of costs, these newspapers are failing because they have alienated 50% of their potential readership. I never buy a newspaper now unless I’m in town and can get the National.

      I don’t pay my TV license for the same reason, they are failing to provide a balanced picture. My license fee is better spent on Netflix and Amazon Prime. Watched a really good film the other night a Netflix original “Wheelman” wouldn’t get that on BBC and I pay less money for both these services than I would for a TV licence.

      If Alex Salmond takes over the chairmanship of Johnson Press and the Scotsman becomes a more “balanced” newspaper then I would probably buy it. What I won’t do is pay from my own pocket for Britnat propaganda and political party press releases gained through FOI requests.

      Anyway, the games afoot, hopefully the likes of David Torrence will struggle to get work as all the Unionist press do down the plughole. How would he get on if he had to visit his local foodbank?

      The lot of them, editors and journalists need a lesson in the harsh reality of life for a great many Scots that they have ignored for too long. There are a couple of decent journalists that need to get off the fence, you know who you are so do something about it and stop dithering.

    280. Dr Jim says:

      The original “10” commandments were in fact over 200 but over time that was considered too much for peoples understanding so they were whittled down to 10 for expediency by those who held the power to do so

      Funnily enough just like today

      If you’re going to invent rules to control the masses make them short and snappy, always a winner

    281. Nana says:

      @Alex Clark

      He always seems to be able to shrug off snipey interviewers, I wonder if he goes home and punches a wall afterwards, lol

      Here’s another good guy

      My point of order requesting that proceedings of ‘contempt of the House’ is brought against the Government.
      Video here

      This is worth watching even those who are not religious just for the man’s story.

      Poignant film of Serbian-Scots refugee is up for major award

    282. Gary45% says:

      Alex Clark@10.28 Ditto.

      Pity Patel stepped down, I would rather she was sacked along with the dithering rest.
      Unfortunately Mays government is so weak, they could all be caught molesting frozen chickens in their local supermarkets and she still couldn’t sack them.
      The Tory Government,= No Honour, No Morals, No decency and No Idea.

    283. Gary45% says:

      Just noticed, was Patel sacked or did she resign, I thought she had resigned. MSN saying she was sacked.

    284. Phronesis says:

      ‘This extraordinary level of inequality damages us all, and is emblematic of the failures of our political and economic institutions. As an extensive body of research continues to show, more unequal societies such as the UK suffer from poorer physical and mental health, lower life expectancy, higher rates of violent crime, poorer educational outcomes, and lower levels of trust. And there is evidence from the International Monetary Fund, World Bank and OECD that our extreme inequality could also damage our economy. The effects of inequality can be seen everywhere.

      The wealth of the 100 richest people in Britain is now £380.336 billion, an increase of
      £57.446 billion in the last year.
      Last year the wealth of the richest 1,000 people increased by £82.476 billion, or:
      ? 14.3 per cent, or
      ? £2,615 per second, or
      ? £226 million per day.

      This could-
      Pay for 5,143,819 Living Wage jobs for a year,or 2,923,333 jobs paid at an average salary.
      Cost = £82.476 billion
      Pay 2 and a half years’ worth of energy bills for all 25.6 million British households.
      Cost = £79.15 billion AND
      ? Pay off the current fuel poverty gap of £882 million. This would effectively lift 2.38 million
      households out of fuel poverty. 7 Cost = £882 million
      Pay for 68% of the annual budget for the NHS in England. 11 Cost = £81.6 billion.

      The vast majority of working people in the UK rely on what they receive in their pay packets in order to live. It follows, therefore, that inequality in pay between the rich and the rest is a major driver of overall economic inequality in the UK. On average, the Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) of the UK’s largest one hundred companies (the FTSE 100) take home around 190 times what the average employee takes home. Too often, bosses are treated as untouchable talent to be retained at all costs, while millions of workers are seen merely as costs to be reduced.
      Analysis by The Equality Trust found the £5,271,803 average pay for a FTSE 100 CEO is:
      • 165 times more than a nurse’s.
      • 140 times more than a teacher’s.
      • 132 times more than a police officer’s.
      • 312 times more than a care worker’s.

      Over two thirds (67%) of FTSE 100 CEOs are paid more than 100 times the average UK salary.
      • Ninety per cent of FTSE 100 CEOs are paid at least 100 times more than a National Living Wage salary.
      • Only six of the FTSE 100 CEOs were paid less than £1 million in 2015.

      Scotland is a nation in waiting –its government buffering its citizens, economy, state infrastructure against a clueless, chaotic WM cabal and its ‘mystifying’ politics. Inequality is not inevitable because independence for Scotland is.

    285. manandboy says:

      It’s been three years since Indy2014.

      During that time, soft No voters have had loads of reasons for changing their minds like The VOW, Austerity and Brexit, and virtually none for stayin No.
      Yet the opinion poll figures for No’s has hardly changed. That’s hard to believe. But the explanation escapes us.

    286. schrodingers cat says:

      i’m really enjoying this westminster meltdown

      i think tommy is right, they have shot their bolt in indyref1

      have you noticed how quiet the yoons are?

      what is there to defend?

    287. manandboy says:

      Gary45%, Patel resigned.

    288. Petra says:

      I’ve just been reading through the Unicorn magazine and thought I’d share a section of a story I’ve just read.

      John McHarg, founder of Yes2, talks about the rise in numbers at marches and of a march in the early days of the Yes2 movement.

      He says ”we had just turned into West Nile Street and as I was walking along I noticed an old guy come out of a bookies. The next few seconds would stay in my memory for ever. He was one of these old guys who is endemic to Glasgow, a life of character etched into his face. We looked at each other then he looked up the column of marchers, an astonished frown turned into the most beautiful toothless smile I have ever seen, then he pumped his fist in the air and shouted YES! In that moment those 400+ folk gave that old guy such joy but more importantly, HOPE, and for me that was the highlight of the day and that old guy gave me a boosted determination, in what at times can be a difficult and disheartening process of campaigning, taking these moments and nourishing them can be so important.”

    289. Still Positive says:

      Priti Patel resigned? Aye right.

    290. Still Positive says:

      Earlier today I was thinking as many of us do that this government is the worst we can remember.

      Jim Callaghan’s government of 1976-79 was pretty dire lurching from one crisis to the next during the ‘winter of discontent’ of 78/9.

      Is it that we didn’t have the benefit of the internet then that we did not know how bad Callaghan’s government really was?

      Interested to see your comments on this.

    291. Alex Clark says:


      That’s great, a beautiful wee story. We can do this for Scotland.

    292. geeo says:

      People keep saying support for indy has hardly moved in 3 years, but where are all these regular opinion polls, opining such snippets ?

      Who is it that tells us about such matters ?

      Unionists, that’s who !!

    293. North chiel says:

      Ref “ Robert Graham @ 1048am , nov 8th” . Agree entirely with your last paragraph Robert “I agree as ever that there is not much difference between these unionist parties , and rather than Brexit being the problem it’s Scottish Independence on the horizon that scares them and Brexit is the cover. It’s never usually the headline , it’s the hidden agenda”.
      Yes Robert, Scotland is the “ elephant in the room” , never to be mentioned by the Westminster state controlled media in neither a U.K. nor international context . My previous thinking was that the Tory gov would attempt to “ get a way with” both a hard Brexit and power grab . However, if support for Independence had increased over the 1-2 year period through to late 2018 early 2019 and a 2nd referendum ( which the Yes2 campaign looked like winning ) was requested by our Holyrood parliament, then TM would deliberately call a general election which Corbyn would very probably win . Thereafter , a soft Brexit would be negotiated with single market / customs union access ( which would underpin the establishment’s attempt to hold the “ union” together and undoubtedly and additionally Devo super duper max/ FFA would be “ thrown in again for good measure”).
      It now looks more likely that we are looking at a Feb/Mar 2018 GE and a Labour and or coalition gov. as if and when TM is deposed then surely an election can be the only outcome?

    294. Alex Clark says:

      Just for information, the BoE interest rate in Nov 1979 was 17% and inflation by 1980 was 18%.

      Since Oct 1989 interest rates have fallen steadily from 14% to 0.5% in recent months, inflation has also fallen from around 7% in 1989 to less than 2% for the last few years.

      What’s my point?

      Well now inflation is rising due to Brexit but so too are interest rates due to the falling value of the £. This is not meant to happen, rising inflation and interest rates at the same time is going to bugger up many ordinary peoples finances for sure. Those with least will be the worst hit but so too will many that have mortgages etc and pensioners with savings.

      In other words we’re all screwed unless we get out of this dysfunctional Union.

    295. Petra says:

      @ Boris at 8:40pm …… “Priti Patel – Scottish Tories.”

      Well it looks as though the chickens are coming home to roost for the Westminster Tories and it’s high time that their serfs in Holyrood were nipped in the bud too, imo. I had no idea that a group of Tories had sloped off to Israel far less that they had visited the Golan Heights: A clear breach of diplomatic protocol to say the least.

      Ruth Davidson’s attitude and behaviour at Holyrood is beyond the pale, as is Annie Well’s statement denouncing our Parliament. No mention either of complaints of sexual harassment, etc, made against the Tories. Being hushed up no doubt. The crew that took it on themselves to visit the Golan Heights should be fired out the door along with Annie Wells. High time we all became more pro-active with this lot and started making formal complaints against them. I’ll have to go back and reread your posts Boris to see if they used tax-payers money to cover the cost of their jaunt. If so it’s not on and the money should be reimbursed. The least they can do as I’m not one bit happy to be paying for that lot to sit and guzzle wine, especially taking into account that the Syrians and Palestinians are suffering terribly in no small part due to their blooming precious Unionist bosses.

    296. geeo says:

      @alex 1.22am

      My friend spent all this year deciding whether to buy a house, i spent all year telling him to hurry up before interest rates went up (to get fixed rate while low as they were going).

      He sealed the deal 3 days before they went up !!

      Got me nice bottle of malt for my advice.

    297. geeo says:

      Which tory next for chop ?

      Boris (how can he NOT be forced to go for getting a poor woman, already persecuted, jail time ffs)?

      Or Damien Green ? (this would please me no end)

      There are others, but these 2 are highest profile.

      On that note,

    298. geeo says:


      On that note, why have those accused unionist politicians not been suspended by their party yet?

      Michelle Thomson was suspended for months after all.

      Typical double standards.

    299. ian murray says:

      The Priti Patel thing is just strange.

      A senior cabinet minister took a “holiday” to Israel and just happened to squeeze in 14 or so unofficial visits
      Did she take her family with her ?
      The government knew nothing about it so they say

      This smacks of the Tories flouting the rules as usual, getting caught and doing the denial thing as per usual.

    300. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Petra & Alex –


      Great story. That’s why it’s always worthwhile going to rallies and demos – witnessing these wee vignettes first-hand is totally different to watching online.

      It does feel as if we’re getting very close now. Saw a bit of business in the Scottish Parliament coverage today and it was such a refreshing change from the ongoing farce on BBC/Sky. It was to do with the Child Poverty action plan or suchlike and *everyone* was in total agreement with the Scottish govt amendments, spoke warmly about how they’d all collaborated to make the passage of the legislation as smooth as possible, even Prof Tomkins sounded reasonable and relatively human.

      Our parliament works as well as it’s ‘allowed’ to, but it presents a serious embarrassment to anyone capable of comparing it with Carry On Westminster. We must be ready to protect it when WM, post-Brexit, tries to destroy it, as it surely will. We should be prepared to take a leaf from the Catalonian book and exercise non-violent civil disobedience.

    301. Al Dossary says:


      The visit of the Scots Tories was (or at least I thought was) common knowledge – maybe not.

      I have a real issue with the interference of the various Israeli state organisations in UK and World politics.

      Some 80% of Tory MP’S are members of ” Conservative friend of Israel” whilst tge last figure I saw for “Labour friends of Israel” was around 60 members.

      Only last year Al Jazeera did a 2 or 3 part documentary highlighting the attempts of the Israeli’s seeking to recruit young members at the Labour conference.

      And all this from a country that prior to its emergance conducted a terrorist campaign against Britain in Palestine.

      The sheer amount of attacks made is mind-boggling, yet for the life of me I cannot remember even once seeing reference to them anywhere. But then again, who controls much of the world’s media, banking and finance as well as exercising huge influence across the USA and UK politics.

    302. Willie says:

      Brown is yesterday’s man but we should never forget that he was a treacherous politician whose stock in trade was to do ordinary folk down.

      He presided over a relentless programme of privatisation every bit as extensive but less visible than Thatcher.

      He presided over the rape of the public purse through the use of the Private Finance initiative, the legacy of which hangs round every taxpayers neck today as the schools crumble.

      He promised in the final days of the referendum that voting no would mean more powers only for the sacred ‘ Vow ‘ to be immediately disregarded.

      A treacherous liar and cheat feather bedding the rich and powerful is all that can be said about this masquerade of a so called moral man of the people.

      We should remember him and his party as such.

    303. Scotspine says:

      Twitter account disabled again.

      Had just tweeted at tesco about their attempts to erase Scots identity by printing Union Flags on Scottish produce and boom. Account disabled.

      Regular occurence……

    304. Petra says:

      @ Ian / Alex …..

      It WAS a great wee story. A reminder of why most of us are fighting for our Independence. To bring some hope and eventually resolution to a centuries old downtrodden nation. And it won’t be long now.

      @ Al ……..

      I’ve probably just forgotten about the visit Al. My head is full of ‘stuff’ (and nonsense, lol), however I’m sure that I’d no idea about their visit to the Golan Heights. I know that Tomkins is a main player and has close links to academics in Israel and maybe ‘others’ less academic? Jim Murphy too. I often wonder what he’s getting up to now taking into account his connections to the US and Israel. I don’t believe for one minute that he just disappeared into oblivion.

      “Who controls much of the world’s media, banking and finance.” Right enough, Al. Keep the mushrooms in the dark. It’s interesting to see that Murdoch is selling off a lot of his assets / interests with the backing of his sons. He, Cheney and Rothschild have been pushing on with drilling for oil in the Golan Heights. Maybe that’s where his focus lies now? Meanwhile the Israeli Government has created a ‘holocaust’ for the Palestinians and are getting away with it. When you see a map of 1947 Israel against the current map, know of the Palestinians suffering and of the millions of traumatised children it would just break your heart. Worst still no one in power seems to doing one whit about it. We’re living on one sick planet. I’m hoping that an Independent Scotland will contribute to breaking the mold and shine some light in the darkness.

      Anyway I better move and get on with more mundane things than trying to change the world, lol.

    305. Nana says:

      As Brexit slowly judders into reality, civil servants are leaving in droves

      Slump in UK car sales deepens as industry records 12% fall

    306. One_Scot says:

      Potential Scottish First Minister. It looks like we dodged a bullet there.

    307. Breeks says:

      Al Dossary says:
      9 November, 2017 at 3:10 am

      The visit of the Scots Tories was (or at least I thought was) common knowledge – maybe not.

      I have a real issue with the interference of the various Israeli state organisations in UK and World politics.

      Wasn’t that the dirty secret behind Tony Blair’s illegal war in Iraq? Tony Blair’s “New Labour” ideologically distanced itself from the Trade Union’s, lost a huge amount of traditional Labour Party funding, but secured alternative funding from Friends of Israel. Next thing you know there’s a witch hunt for weapons of mass destruction with a 40 minute reaction time. Isn’t that why Corbyn nearly split the Labour Party by demanding Blair stood trial for war crimes?

      Look at all the Middle East Wars. We’re told it’s a war against Muslim terrorists and extremists, but it’s Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Yemen get bombed, predominantly Shia Muslims, while all the ISIS throat cutters, the obscenity terrorists, the 9-11 terrorists are all Sunnis, backed by the Saudi’s and armed with NATO weaponry and Wahhabist extremist ideology. The difference of course being the Shiite Muslims are vehemently opposed to the state of Israel. The Sunnis are content to wage war on the Shiites because Saudi Arabia sees itself as the big Muslim power broker that feels threatened by Tehran.

      The whole Middle East is a thoroughly squalid litany of betrayal, duplicity, and gross manipulation of the truth. We wonder why we have terrorism on our doorsteps, but yet Muslims can be obliterated on the contrived possibility they might be in the remote vicinity of a fictitious weapon of mass destruction, while on the other side of the Balance, Israel is barely even recognised as a state by any of its immediate neighbours, it occupies and resettles people on land that is not theirs in brazen defiance of dozens of UN resolutions which nobody will enforce, it treats the Palestinians like stray dogs, casually killing them for spurious “justifications”.

      I am not bigoted against the Jews, I am not an antisemite, nor do I dispute the right of Israel to exist, but those are values I extend to moderates, peace brokers and negotiators in Israel. There is also a much darker and malevolent side to Israel, much, MUCH, darker, and it’s covert influence over Western governments, especially the US and UK.

      It is a damning caricature of our modern progressive society that we have the Israelis, victims themselves of Nazi ghettos, building their grotesque concrete wall to fence in Gaza, and in the USA, we have the self styled leader of the free world squandering an inordinate amount of money to scar the planet with yet another grotesque wall built with bricks, concrete, ignorance and hatred. The people responsible for these obscenities should not be the ones in control.

      We think Scotland is badly treated by the media, and it is, but we suffer a mere fraction of the distorted truth compared to the dirty truths being suppressed and distorted in the Middle East.

      Forgive the euphemism, but I don’t see the Middle East situation “ending well”, when all you can predict is something unpredictable.

      The Middle East boasts some of the oldest civilised cultures on the planet; true marvels in every sense of the word which have stood for millennia. Can you imagine Arabic fighter jets and drones routinely bombing Edinburgh Castle and the Royal Mile with absolute impunity? Assassinating by drone strike people who protested, and any woman, child or family dog who randomly stood to close to the blast? A terse apology for bombing a Scottish wedding or cèilidh by mistake?

      In one way that’s why the EU’s attitude towards Catalonia is difficult to swallow, but before we harden our hearts and turn away from Europe, we had better think very hard and work out what it actually is that we’d be turning towards… This is the 21st Century. Europe isn’t perfect, but it’s also barely 60 years old. I trust Europe in ways that do not trust America or Westminster. Scotland’s future belongs in Europe. The Europe which risked so much, but still opened its doors to the desperate and the needy fleeing Middle Eastern tragedy which the monsters in the West brought about and sustain for one decade after another.

    308. Capella says:

      From the R4 interface: just listened to Ian Duncan Smith followed by another Tory expanding at length on whither the Tory Party. It sounded like a cosy armchair chat. Reframing the optic via the BBC.
      This was followed by a lengthy item on Paddington Bear who is to feature in M&S Xmas adverts. Fascinating.

      But don’t worry, Melvyn Bragg is discussing The Picts in In Our Time after 9. Probably a hatchet job as usual. Melvyn says the Picts disappeared. I’ve got bad news for him. We’re still here.

    309. Legerwood says:

      In all the sound and fury over Ms Patel and her holiday has anyone noticed if the Brexit papers have been released as ordered by Parliament? Tuesday, 7th, was the due date I believe.

      Or do the Paradise Papers take precedence?

    310. Macart says:


      They don’t have far to look for catastrophe right enough Nana. The piece is a fairly decent summary of the state of the cabinet and government I thought.

      Also? I’m now out of choccy raisins. Time for a snackage run I think, before the next wave of political carnage hits. Bit like an ad break on a disaster movie, only with mild exercise involved.

    311. Nana says:


      At this rate I’m going to be the size of a house and flat broke from all the ‘treats’ I’m consuming. I tell ye fruit pastilles will be my downfall.

      I see the lunatic fringe have been writing letters again, lol

    312. Grouse Beater says:

      Catalonia – Just back from walkabout in Spain, city and rural.

      Your essential reading:

      Prisoners of conscience:
      A better trainspotting:

    313. Macart says:


      Pffff. I’m never sure whether they’re just taking the proverbial, or whether they really don’t understand irony? I’m guessing the latter.

    314. John H. says:

      For no good reason that I can think of Lord Sugar was brought onto LBC this morning to give his opinion on Brexit and the Patel resignation. Brilliant business man he might be, but when it comes to politics he obviously hasn’t a clue. You would get more sense from a drunk man in a pub, oh, and “England” is leaving the EU.

      My view of the Patel resignation for what it’s worth, is that she hasn’t done her career any harm among the right wing brexiteers in the tory party, of whom there are many it seems. Unfortunately she’ll be back, probably sooner rather than later.

    315. Nana says:

      Just received the latest avaaz request

      Former UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown – with Avaaz

      Eight years ago as UK Prime Minister and chair of the G20, I tried to end the injustice of global tax havens. But as the “Paradise Papers” leak shows, trillions are still being siphoned off to dodge tax in the most shadowy places in the global economy.

      It’s one of today’s greatest injustices, allowing the richest to stand aside while the rest of us pay for health, education, and protecting the most vulnerable.

      But now we have a chance to stop it — through an international agreement that outlaws tax havens and imposes penalties and prison sentences on tax evaders. And the G20, the leaders of the world’s biggest economies, can make it happen.

      Please join me in signing this open letter to Argentine President Mauricio Macri, chair of the G20 — if a million of us sign, I will personally deliver it to him, asking him and other G20 leaders to take urgent action to finish the job we began in 2009. Join with one click:

      Wow he tried to end injustice of dodgy tax dogders, imagine that. What a guy! Still trying to save the world eh Gordy?

    316. winifred McCartney says:

      Ruth D has disappeared again! Why?

      Scottish tories visit Golan Heights. How many of them have resigned? Murdo F is still at his bigoted best. The BBC are in hiding as far as they are concerned. Can you imagine if snp people had been involved in any of this.

      TM needs to suspend Damien Green, sack Boris Johnston and Priti Patel should have been sacked not allowed to resign.

      It is like watching the fall of the corrupt Roman Empire in slow motion.

      In the meantime: have the Brexit papers been released as demanded by Parliament?

      Ruth Davidson is busy baking cakes, but not telling us to eat them.

      The royal family is mired in more muck of their own making and still making stupid statements about now knowing but funnily enough making speeches to change the law.

      And that is only one half of the rotten union, the red tories have there own problems.

      How much more of this do we have to stomach?

    317. Al Dossary says:

      Dodgy Dossier and Iraq.

      David Cameron is alleged to have travelled to South Africa with none other than David Kelly in relation to some battlefield nukes. Kelly’s job was to verify that the nukes were viable devices.

    318. Undeadshaun says:


      Is it a plane, Its superbrown…

    319. Fergus Green says:

      @Budweiser 9.51.Not a good idea. Waste of good Scottish produce and only likely to get independence supporters branded as vandals. We do not need to resort to this to win independence.

    320. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 8 November, 2017 at 10:10 pm:

      “23 hours ago – The news channel could be shut if it hampers 21st Century Fox’s acquisition … Sky has threatened to shut down Sky News if the news channel … “

      Now I may be wrong but it is my impression that to obtain a United Kingdom Government licence to broadcasting the would be broadcaster has to agree to carry all UK Government Public Service broadcasts.

      Including News, weather, and other warnings such as Traffic news and party political broadcasts, Health warnings and campaigns such as government road safety campaigns and such like. As well as all the other propaganda stuff.

      If BskyB was to do away with their News channel they would be required to carry the news and government public service stuff on their other channels.

      In any case, with smart TVs, that can access on-line stuff, without the need for a radio frequency terrestrial or satellite broadcast aerial, the whole broadcast scene has changed.

      As it is the divide between computer and TV video has merged greatly in the last few years. This assures that the mass media of newspapers, radio, television and the internet are merging and the older means of brainwashing the public are being wrenched out of government hands World wide and they don’t like it one little bit.

      The ultimate end is that they are stopped from controlling us and we start controlling them – which is what democracy was always supposed to be.

      In practice it has always ended up with those the public appointed as their public servants acting as if the public servants were the masters and the electorate their servants.

      Legally it should have been that the MPs were the public servants and the public were their masters. They effectively turned the old saying of, “He who pays the piper calls the tune”, on its head by the public paying for the members of parliament but the MPs then calling the tune. The public could do nothing to prevent them doing so except by a general election vote at 5 year or more intervals.

    321. Grouse Beater says:

      Nana: “Former UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown – with Avaaz”

      The EU had just issued strict rules on tax avoidance when we pulled out of Europe!

      The great Yanis Varoufakis is already way ahead with his democratising EU group.

      If only Brown dedicated himself to the creation of an international code of tax ethics, get wide agreement on sanctions, such as freezing company bank accounts or imprisonment, how much better than spending the autumn of his life whitewashing his reputation and running down his own nation.

      The problem he has is, the UK created the tax havens and endorsed their sleazy rights, something I’ve written about for almost ten years – see essay below.

    322. Proud Cybernat says:

      ‘Cos they’re all at it…

    323. Breeks says:

      The flaw in your cunning plan Budwiser is that it would be Scots eating the spoiled product.

      You’d be more effective asking the store to confirm whether the product they insist is marketed as British contains any genetically modified foodstuff which is legal in England, but GM foodstuffs are banned in Scotland, so the saltire is a mark of a non-GM foodstuff.

      If they cannot prove the foodstuff does not contain GM components, then make a point of leaving it on the shelf.

      Nevermind the BritNat marketing, the saltire is de facto evidence you’re not eating GM food. It’s removal by the supermarkets is an attempt to drive down standards generally and besmirch a superior quality Scottish product. Does not mean it’s organic, but it’s not genetically modified.

      Don’t destroy their product, let their BritNat arrogance destroy the reputation of their Union Jacked supermarket.

      It’s probably a trial run for the supermarkets anyway. If they can get away with selling their GM muck in Scotland just by changing their marketing protocols, then they can use similar labelling ploys to sell the GM, steroid and growth hormone reared muck that we’ll all be eating after deregulation in the UK to accommodate US food standards after a US Trade Deal, rather than the much higher European standards.

      Just one example of the divergent pressures on food standards which Michel Barnier will insist the EU has legislative authority to control before the EU will even entertain the concept of a UK trade deal. If Scotland allows itself to be Brexited, Scotland will suffer the same consequences of economic and standards divergence that will make trade with Europe “challenging”.

      In fact, given the Scottish Governments attitude towards GM foodstuffs, perhaps Holyrood should demand Butchers Aprons labels must carry a warning for discerning Scottish consumers – “May contain Genetically Modified Ingredients ” Hmmm… Now I kinda like that idea….

    324. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says:

      decent summary of the state of the cabinet and government

      The Cover-up and Unionist Party, perhaps.

      It is pretty clear this is the worst government in living memory. While swathes of England appear to subscribe to a hard right agenda, the Tories seem to have difficulty being coherent with their own policies. It is their incompetence and inability to operate as an organised government that is so dreadful. Ministers appear to act as if they never attended cabinet meetings!

      It can’t go on! However, to be brutally frank, I hope it goes on long enough to make an IndyRef2 both necessary and winnable.

    325. manandboy says:

      It’s not in the shops yet, but the marriage of Scotland and England has died. But who washes and who dries must go on for a while yet.

      This marriage doesn’t work anymore, nor will it ever again, if it ever did really. This became clear during the Scottish Independence Referendum campaign and has since been magnified by the European Referendum campaign and subsequent fallout.

      Yes and No in every part of the UK cannot be reconciled. Remain in Scotland cannot be combined with Leave in England either constitutionally or democratically.

      Only the belief of the politically illiterate, that the UK as it was will be restored, is preventing the UK’s constitutional arrangements from being reordered. Tick tock.

    326. Les Wilson says:

      Ref auld Lizzie and her finances, it is inconceivable that she did not know of the tax dodges, I simply cannot believe that her profit/ loss details are not given to her each year.
      Showing how each of her investments have performed.

      Ditto Charlie.

    327. Fred says:

      So Rahoy’s a crook Nana, who’d have thought it? The Wee Ginger Dug excellent on Catalunya this week. No Pasaran!

    328. bjsalba says:

      @budwiser at 9:51 am

      Simplest of all is not to shop at Tesco’s at all.

      I try to use supermarkets as little as possible. By going to the local butcher, baker fishman as much as I can, I keep the money in the local economy.

      I get mostly local food and I can buy in small quantities which since I am single suits me fine.

    329. Breeks says:

      You know, thinking about it, with some concerted advertising, promoting the Saltire’s GM-free status could thoroughly backfire on the supermarkets and generate a greater demand for saltire product south of the border.

      Saltire See? = GM Free.

      Ok, so I don’t work in advertising, but it’s still a good idea No?

      Scottish Brand = GM Banned.


    330. ScottieDog says:

      Question to fellow wingers. If the Tory govt collapses, what should the SNP’s GE election strategy be?
      shouod it be primarily run on Indy?

    331. galamcennalath says:

      manandboy says:

      the belief … that the UK as it was will be restored, is preventing the UK’s constitutional arrangements from being reordered.

      Yes, exactly, the prevailing fantasy seems to be to turn the clock back, and that just ain’t gonna happen. The past is the past.

      We all know what our preferred reordering would be – an independent Scotland. Also, it has been said often that an iScotland will set an example of how a country and society should be run, so our neighbours might be encouraged to rethink their own path. All of these Isles could benefit from Scottish Indy. And Irish reunification, I believe.

      However, I do worry that dark forces will get their act together and embark on a different type of “reordering” before Scotland manages to escape.

    332. Petra says:

      @ Breeks at 8:34 …. ”…Look at all the Middle East Wars. We’re told it’s a war against Muslim terrorists and extremists, but it’s Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Yemen get bombed, predominantly Shia Muslims….”

      Excellent post Breeks. Spot on. We’ve also got Trump who doesn’t know where the Middle East is, cares even less about the stability of the region, being influenced by his son-in-law Jared Kushner great mate of Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Salman a Sunni ‘supporter’ of course hoping for a mega-billion dollar arms deal with the US. Needing even more arms to destroy Iran when the time comes.

      Trump as usual focusing on his and his families interests, such as the Ivanka-inspired Women Entrepreneurs Finance Initiative that received first donations of $100m from Saudi Arabia and the UAE. Strange one from countries that are in denial of women’s rights. Treat their own women like dirt. The WEFI is designed to boost women entrepreneurs in developing countries and fight the norms that hold them back. I wonder how many Palestinian or Shiite women will see one penny of it?


      @ Nana says at 9:19 am …. ”I see the lunatic fringe have been writing letters again, lol.”

      Meanwhile Nash et al can carry on spouting THEIR propaganda.

    333. galamcennalath says:

      ScottieDog says:

      If the Tory govt collapses, what should the SNP’s GE election strategy be?

      That scenario concerns me. Scots have had a habit of voting Labour at WM if they believe they can win. That might happen. IMO the SNP’s biggest job will be to prevent that and get their voters out on the day.

      How? I believe it has to feature Indy and not just rely on a record which is being attacked daily by the msm. Indy needs to be central IMO.

      WM’s record justifies IndyRef2. Labour and Corbyn are a distraction, and would serve Scotland no better. That needs to be the message.

    334. Robert Peffers says:

      @Alex Clark says: 9 November, 2017 at 12:31 am:

      “That’s great, a beautiful wee story. We can do this for Scotland.”

      “We can do this for Scotland”

      Is a short phrase that encapsulates Petra’s wee story and it highlights the simple fact that neither the SNP nor the Scottish Government can do it for us and for Scotland.

      Well they cannot do it without a specific mandate of a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland and that mandate is very, very close these days.

      The SNP are only part of the bigger YES movement and the SG have their hands tied behind their backs as they are, as things now stand, an integral part of the United Kingdom government.

      A reluctant part it is true but none the less constrained by the fact they are a devolved part of the Westminster Establishment and must obey the rules or be treated as the Catalan leaders are being treated right now and those Catalan leaders actually do have a majority mandate but they are not, as are the Scots, a legally sovereign people.

      The Scottish Government was never envisioned by Westminster to become other than an establishment Branch Office at Holyrood doing it’s masters work in Scotland. Their nice wee dream of a cosy wee branch office in Scotland to appease the natives of Scotland turned into their worst nightmare.

      Yet the fact remains Holyrood is constrained by Westminster rules. To the extent that the Holyrood Civil Servant, “Hecht Heid Ains”, are appointed by Westminster.

      If that strikes you as untrue then remember the furore when the head Holyrood Civil Servant actually did his job properly and was summonsed to headquarters accused of, (and I kid you not), “Going Native”, because he actually did what Alex Salmond correctly asked him to do.

      He broke no Civil Service rules as his job description was to do exactly what he was doing. Yet in Westminster, and the Westminster Civil Service, views – he had, “Gone Native”. See:-

      and :-

      Which brings us to what Petra’s story is actually telling us- We cannot rely upon the SNP SG as they are constrained and, like SIR Peter Housden, must play by Westminster’s remit or be called by the Establishment to resign.

      Which brings the matter right back to us – the foot soldiers of the YES movement. We do not control the press, we do not control the radio and we do not control the TV. We do not even control the streets in some of our cities and thus our marches for independence are compromised by unionist officialdom.

      We do not control the internet but we do have more or less freedom to use it. What we do have is the ability to talk to members of the public and, if we do so with the right attitudes, change people’s minds – one mind at a time. Once changed few such changed minds ever return to Westminster control.

      Yes it is a bit like the oppressed natives armed with pitchforks facing the Redcoats armed with their cavalry with lances, backed with cannons and massed ranks of troops with muskets but, if there are enough of us, we will win.

    335. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      SNP should make a single manifesto pledge at all future WM and Holyrood Elections @ScottieDog says at 11:08 am

      If returned with a majority of MPs/MSPs they will put forward a “Repeal of the 1707 Act of Union Bill”

    336. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath 10.37

      The very final nail in the coffin should be in the release of the Brexit impact reports. Those reports which Davis said existed in excruciating detail, then didn’t? Those ones.

      There is no real mystery behind why the reports are being deliberately held back. If they reveal what we fully expect them to reveal, then we really should be entitled to call it a day. TBF most of us here would have ended this farce of a political union long since were it within our power. How and ever, only the most die hard Brit Nat will ignore the fact that what was promised to Scotland’s electorate has not only failed to be realized, but was never intended to be by that point.

    337. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Me at 11:24 am

      “SNP should make a single manifesto pledge at all future WM and Holyrood Elections”

      For clarity:

      Should have said If returned with a majority of MPs in Scotland

    338. David Caledonia says:

      I would like to comment on the Palestinian question, i would like to see a two state solution, but the biggest stumbling block is that Hamas does not want Israel to even exist, it will never not exist so that is a stupid and dangerous stance to take in the first place, and any of the arab population in Israel can remain in Israel, a place that most of them have lived all their lives anyway, as for Israel if anyone cares to look at the area the jews going back thousands of years lived there, unfortunately people who should have known better created the modern day Israel by throwing the palestinians off the land that was their homes, it could have been handled better, but when you have the americans and the english involved in anything it usually goes tits up in time, Kuwait was part of Iraq when along comes the english and draws a line in the sand and creates what we now know as Kuwai, this was done round about 1926, before oil was found there, along comes sadamm and he invaded because Kuwait is part of Iraq and he wanted the oil, ofc he was not interested in Kuwait, just the oil, so you can see england caused another war because of what they did in 1926, and the real question is this, who do they think they are to go into a place they have no right to be in and divide a country and create another border to fight over, and before anyone pulls me up for saying it was all england’s doing, the only time scots where involved was when we supplied the poor soldiers to implement westminster rule over other countries, there has never been a scottish government that can vote to stay out of wars and problems caused by westminster

    339. Les Wilson says:

      SIU say there is a debate upcoming shortly in Westminster, ref Indy2. This apparently came about with 221000 votes for no referendum. Well they do not specify Scottish votes if it was they would have said so.
      So if it was UK wide with around 65 million people, the vote is tiny and non voters numbers may suggest that the vast majority especially down south where the vastly bigger numbers are, could not give a shit whether we leave or not. Own goal methinks!

      On the shame site we have a video of Dan Snow giving it large on better together. No mention that his inlaws perhaps now him included own one of the biggest estates in Scotland, it is for him a question of assets protection. Another anti democratic Unionist windbag.

    340. Jack Murphy says:

      It’s my Break.
      Completely Off Topic:

      GA Ponsonby on Twitter with lots of good links and Scottish media info..

      No need to join Twitter,just have a look and it’s free. 🙂

    341. Robert Peffers says:


      Just read a news report that,
      “Seven days after the rise in base rates just 17 out of 150 providers have passed on improved returns to their savers.

      Many banks are still considering whether to pass on the benefits.”

      The fact is that even if the banks choose to increase their rates in full their savers will still be worse off than when the rates were last at 0.5% due to the increased rate of inflation that is mainly caused by the UK Government nationalised Bank of England’s, “Quantitative Easing”, policy of simply printing money and easing it into the currency supply then afterwards buying up Government bonds, (Gilts), that they later gift back to the Government Treasury.

      These people, both bankers and Government ministers, should be on trial for fraud and misuse of public funds.

    342. Greannach says:

      Watch out everyone. Gordon’s just made an intervention on the carpet!

    343. Fred says:

      Just listening to Ruth Davidson on FMQT, criticism comes easy when you’ve never as much as ran a wulk-stall yersel.

    344. Les Wilson says:

      Listening to Nicola at FMQ’s it is obvious that she is well up on things via her answers to the Unionist creed in Holyrood.
      However, I feel she is just too nice sometimes, eg there are a myriad of things she could have laid on them with some more force.

      People need to be kept informed of the way we are governed by Westminster by loudly and pointing out Scotland’s democratic deficit.
      Would love to see her go on the attack much more often especially with Ruthie. People need to know what Unionist of all creeds are up to in both Scotland and in chaotic Westminster.

      People need to be appalled at how Scotland is treated, it will need some fire to do that. To be nice to them ain’t enough.

    345. Grouse Beater says:

      David Caledonia: “Hamas does not want Israel to even exist, it will never not exist so that is a stupid and dangerous stance to take in the first place2

      Hamas and its predecessors have all accepted the state of Israel as an immovable nation. But they want it restored to the land mass awarded by the UN, not the massive land grab it has acquired illegally by force now.

      The opportunity for a two-state nation recede every day with Israel throwing up border walls and controls, and digging in deep to Palestinian territory.

    346. Tatu3 says:

      The Palestinian government is not interested in peace with Israel. Israel is justified in defending itself against bombings and suicide attacks. It is not about land, the Arabs want rid of Jews! And sadly it seems they are not alone from what I’ve read on this WoS thread.

      I have a few Jewish friends who live in Israel, and are friends with Palestinians. What we hear and read through our western media is not the whole truth. Fancy that, some journalists can be biased!

    347. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Some facts

      The vast majority of the Jewish people today do not have semetic or Middle Eastern DNA. They are descended from eastern European peoples who adopted the Jewish religion in the 8th century so the notion that they have the Palestinian area as an ancestral homeland is inaccurate. They were settled in 1924 on other people’s land by Britain and America.

      Since that point they have continually illegally invaded and seized more areas of other people’s land in defiance of the Balfour Treaty, international law and the United Nations.

      They have nuclear weapons because the US and the UK allows them to have these in defiance of the United Nations which,being controlled by big western interests, has become a hugely useless organisation.

    348. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      As another w Jewish source explained to me the formation of a Jewish state in Palestine has turned out to be a ditaster for the indigenous Jewish people who were settled all across the Middle East living peacefully in all communities. They have now been driven out of their homelands. Israel is a surrogate US state in the Middle East

    349. Bill McLean says:

      Better educate yourself than by quoting a few Israeli friends by reading “The Great War for Civilization. The Conquest of the Middle East” for a comprehensive history of disastrous and self-interested western interference in, and a better education of, facts about the Middle East by a respected journalist of more than 30 years – Robert Fisk. I had always suspected that western reporting of Israel was a bit flimsy – read this book with an open mind and you’ll never trust them again. On a broader note we see the evidence of western lies on a daily basis! Many Israelis deprecate the way their nation came about and has evolved. Odd, that those who suffered so much in Europe and particularly the 2nd World War, would persecute others so harshly.

    350. Tom Platt says:

      George Brown has achieved so much on a personal level. Can anyone, for instance, fail to respect his personal achievement in overcoming so thoroughly, the early loss of one eye? Until about 2012 I was also able to respect his political stance despite the nonsense that we were subjected to about him in the likes of the “Scottish” Daily Wail and the “Scottish” Daily Suppress.
      He failed miserably though to respond to the challenge that the IndyRef must have posed to his political position. The trimming that he did in the direction of further devolution came to nought because he broke his word ..the promise that he gave to see THe Vow through to fruition.
      His latest shift Federalism..has failed to rekindle the very high level of respect that I used to have for him. He can only do that by biting on his bullet and coming out fully for an independent Scotland taking its proper place in the world, most likely in an alliance of British nations.

    351. BillyT says:

      What really happened? Allegedly, Brown, probably, may have, paid for the study by David and Frank from one of his charity type status companies. Then needs to spin out something from it.

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