The Engines Of Censorship
It is our solemn duty to inform readers that deranged, shovel-handed Scottish Greens member and known associate of rapists and paedophiles Scott “Heather” Herbert has taken the hump at a Wings article from yesterday in which he was satirically featured.
He filed a malicious false copyright claim with YouTube which resulted in a silent video clip from the article showcasing his comically gigantic man-hands being scheduled for deletion, despite Herbert owning no copyright in the video (it’s the property of TalkTV, who have raised no objections to it) and having no legal standing to file any complaint.
But YouTube’s abysmal automated structures operate on the basis that all complaints are intrinsically valid, and allow absolutely no way for Wings to appeal this decision.
If you’re subjected to a copyright claim, YouTube will remove your video immediately – conducting no checks whatsoever into the validity of the claim – and put the onus on you to challenge it. In order to do this you have to provide the complainer, whoever they may be and however baseless their complaint is, with your full name and address.
This isn’t a particularly big deal for Wings, whose details are easy enough to find already, but the dangers for other users are obvious – feminists using the platform pseudonymously to document harassment or abuse, for example, would be forced to provide their name and home address to anyone who wanted to stalk them.
Even in the case of a “delayed takedown” complaint like the one Herbert has made here, there is no mechanism to dispute the complaint in any way before the video is removed. The “Submit counter notification” option does not appear on the video’s YouTube Studio page – the only options offered are “Learn more” (which leads to the information page pictured above) or “Delete video forever”.
Nor can you challenge the misidentification of the content, for the same reasons – the “Dispute” option mentioned by the onsite documentation is simply not available.
Naturally, there’s no way to interact with a human being at YouTube. Like most big tech companies it employs the smallest possible number of people to deal with customer service, and their ironic “Contact Us” page is just a list of FAQs and a physical address in California which would obviously take weeks to obtain a response from.
(They once had a Twitter help account where you could, with variable chances of success, attempt to address such issues, but it’s long gone.)
So as it stands, YouTube is a means by which malicious actors with a small amount of time on their hands can not only censor people but force them – on pain of being completely silenced – to divulge information that could lead to them being physically harassed and harmed.
It seems extraordinary that this state of affairs is allowed to persist, but sadly it appears to be the clear direction of travel of Western society, with humans discarded in the name of profit margins (been to a supermarket recently?) and safeguarding fobbed off onto algorithms whose only actual purpose is revenue maximisation and which are plainly not fit for any other task.
Anyway, we’ll have to delete the silent video of Scott Herbert in the next few days or risk a copyright strike that could bring down Wings’ entire YouTube account, so we’ve replaced it in the piece with this one:
In fairness, we think it’s an improvement.
Tranos: The Hands of Fate
So, from now on, he’ll be forever referred to as “BGH” (Big Giant Hands) on Wings.
That’s a poor 3 out of 10 attempt at bustin oot the Big Fish, Little Fish, Cardboard Box dance moves.
Hm, I wonder if you can do something similar re Sex-Imposters’ videos. You could claim to be ‘hurt to the quick’, ‘offended to your heart’. One positive thing — the Sex-Imposters obviously pay attention to you and a multitude of readers see and forward Wings videos before they can be taken down. I know that I do.
I have challenged plenty of take down requests successfully. I ue a video software which has licensed music. Everytime I post it gets a copyright infringement notice from Indian scammers who want you to pay them. Youtube do nothing about their repeated scams but will remove the infringement request.
You do it by going here https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2807684?hl=en
That’s why the yankie doodle websites should all fck off from this country.
If we wanted to live in China we’d move there.
Every single site of theirs is on censorship steroids.
Facebook, twitter, old eBay selling, PayPal etc, etc.
No contact. Just censorship.
Take it down, imo. You’ll only be given a strike & the yanks love that system of shooting first. It’d annoy Herbert the pervert more if yer channel remains.
Hmmmm, interesting, this can work both ways, we can “force” THEM, to take down their videos as well seeing it’s near enough impossible to appeal. Thanks Herbert for showing us how to attack their platforms too.
prince charles – camilla procession up royal mile today – scottish crown ceremony
#notmyking protesters have very prominent positions on the mile
check out BBC very tight camera shots
Really interesting example,and thanks for the tips on how YouTube deals with copyright complaints.
I’ve always understood that when something is featured in a news programme or comment-as-news, like Talk TV, that it’s already in the public domain.
I’ve often used screenshots from news channels, and not had any problems yet – only simple “copyright suspensions” when using music which isn’t from YouTube’s own audio library, and those are typically resolved in about an hour.
Think of it as a compliment,that you are so well known that these nutjobs feel they have to monitor you!
Not only does he have massive shovel hands, he’s also got a chin like Roger Ramjet!!! Wowsers!
It’s the Barbara Streisand effect all over again. If he’d only kept quiet we’d all have forgotten about it.
Surely begs the question, what’s to stop any of us who disagree with someone else’s views from claiming copyright infringement and having videos removed?
It’s a bad road to go down if you believe in free speech.
@Sven Brilliant idea
So Sherbert Shovelhands thinks you and Farage are paid agents of Russia looking to destablise the UK and USA political systems,
youtube.com/watch?v=G7J-AnXfn_o
I notice however that those hands are safely tucked out of the way this time.
Maybe, in the interests of social justice, Humza should release a party political broadcast where he dances alone to Q Lazzarus’ Goodbye Horses.
“Would you vote me?”
“I’d vote me. I’d vote me HARD.”
you could just keep uploading 1 of 2 videos starring him – wait for the copyright notice then take it down and replace with the other – eternally…..
The trouble with Google and all of its software/sites or whatever, is there is NO CUSTOMER SUPPORT to reach out to when a problem arises.
Like the silly musical accompaniment to the handsignals.
How could you have left Leicester, Heather mi duck?
https://www.visitleicester.info/ideas-and-inspiration/blogs/read/2019/04/theres-curry-then-theres-leicester-curry-b86
I’ve heard of Big Foot……….
Link for Independence Live coverage of Chaz ‘n Cammy doing Edinburgh.
twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1dRJZMlARybGB
Video is def vast improvement
Fraser Reid’s idea looks good at first glance, but I don’t like the idea of eternally watching a video of thon ‘erbert.
O/T. There seems to be an air of “Get out while you can” about the SNP. It started with Sturgeon, and now we’re past half a dozen with Mhairi Black’s announcement.
Looks like something is coming down the line so Sturgeon has tipped them off. Perhaps they are going to form a new group. In a different country perhaps.
Vietnam comes to mind for some reason.
“So as it stands, YouTube is a means by which malicious actors with a small amount of time on their hands can not only censor people but force them – on pain of being completely silenced – to divulge information that could lead to them being physically harassed and harmed.”
Why this might be a surprise of any kind to anyone, I don’t know.
The Copyright (the IP) – because it was originated in the UK and uploaded from here is subject to the UK Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. Under the terms of the Berne Convention, it is entitled to the same protection in all signatory countries at it would have here. …That doesn’t change with YouTube’s house rules.
S30(1): Fair dealing with a work for the purpose of criticism or review, of that or another work or of a performance of a work, does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement(unless this would be impossible for reasons of practicality or otherwise) and provided that the work has been made available to the public.
S30A: Caricature, parody or pastiche (1)Fair dealing with a work for the purposes of caricature, parody or pastiche does not infringe copyright in the work.
…As a former Lecturer in TV production – who used to deliver the HN media law units, and has over 40 years experience in the industry; I can advice ‘Heather’ than not only is she acting dishonestly in making a copyright claim’ on this material; but is possibly in breach of the law.
For the avoidance of doubt ‘Heather’; you have no ‘rights’ to your image or ‘performance’ here; clearly you were a willing participant in a broadcast made over open public channels.
I always have to laugh at people in/fom the UK claiming “fair use” and DCMA; both things relating to American legislation that has no force here; and otherwise flapping about quoting foreign laws.
…Does Heather understand (I wonder) that it would be possible for the real copyright holders to take legal action against here – for attempting to steal their IP?
Certainly; it is most pitiful for a politico (of any shade grade or direction of travel) to be indulging in censorship.
– This is a non-rhetorical question which I invite ‘Heather’ to respond here: why have you lied to YouTube?
Personally Stu I would withdraw the problematic videos from idiot-tube as requested; and re-upload them unaltered to a different platform, embedding them from there.
But while we’re on the subject of ‘censorship’ and for balance… What about that ‘moderation queue’ of yours?
@ Stuart MacKay at 12:21 pm
It says it all that a Scottish Green Party member is concerned that pro-Scotland returning to self-governance site Wings is destabilising the UK political system…
Eh, that’s the whole point of wanting to return Scotland to self-governing status.
These cretins seem to be as dumb as fuck. Enviro matters are significantly impacted by energy policy, and that power is reserved to London Rule. In the scheme of things there is very little Scotland can do without full autonomy to gain the powers actually needed to steer us on a better environmentally sound course.
Shite like the whole DRS debacle, taxpayers subsidising clagging solar PV arrays on north facing roofs and installation of air source heatpumps on unsuitable properties show “Green” policy is far from thought through.
Roasters like him should maybe drop the pronoun genderwoowoo infatuation and concentrate on getting stuff like the rail tracks north of Dunblane electrified so we can use leccy trains powered by renewables instead of diesel powered rolling stock.
There’s a load of YouTubers who’ve suffered in this way forcing them to re-edit videos to remove material from videos. Apart from people like Herbert there are also companies which have grown up which claim copyright of something that’s clearly not their own but thanks to YouTube’s awful moderation system these people get away with wrecking smaller accounts especially. If you’re say, a MrBeast then YouTube will do everything to help. If you’ve got a few thousand subscribers then you’re screwed.
Herbert is fully aware of this hence this claim and of course, he wants Stu’s home address so he and his fellow abusers can get to Stu personally. Once you’ve shilled for child abusers as Herbert is actually doing in this Talk TV segment then the sky is the limit.
bluegrass banjo says:5 July, 2023 at 11:49 am
“check out BBC very tight camera shots”
…Actually some very-awkward (i.e. not competent) camerawork and direction; the crowd seems to be mainly curious tourists. – The use of long-focal lengths from distance (makes for compacted perspective) is fairly lame and obvious; and in this case still fails to make the place look crowded.
There seems to be an air of “Get out while you can” about the SNP. It started with Sturgeon, and now we’re past half a dozen with Mhairi Black’s announcement
I’d assume the SNP have done some internal polls and these people have seen the writing on the wall for them. Black’s been a terrible local MP the last few years since being elected again in 2019 (barely doing surgeries, barely voting in the Commons, etc) & wants to get out so she can work on her post MP career be that being thrown on the Holyrood list and/or building up a media career.
In England she’s seen as this political titan but since advocating for the WASPI women (which has fallen off her agenda for Trans activism) she’s done nothing in the Commons. Claiming Westminster is toxic after eight years of being there & enjoying the lifestyle being an MP brings is weak. She’s no Caroline Lucas who has been an excellent local MP and an active participant in the Commons.
So I expect her to turn up in Bylines/Guardian/Novara or a regular face on TV as a ‘Scottish expert’ on Question Time and the like.
Well you have to HAND it to Herbert, FINGERING you to the YouTube thought police resulting in you getting a slap on the WRIST. As a rule of THUMB is best just to KNUCKLE down and PALM off his complaints. You NAILed him and he knows it.
REVSTU,
Regarding bank accounts, check this out from The National (archived today)
https://archive.is/l8B1b
It seems that disagreeing with the gender nutters leads to a closed bank account – EVEN IF you are the Scottish human rights commissioner!!
Roasters like him should maybe drop the pronoun genderwoowoo infatuation and concentrate on getting stuff like the rail tracks north of Dunblane electrified so we can use leccy trains powered by renewables instead of diesel powered rolling stock.
It is incredibly bleak to see the Greens in Scotland (and elsewhere of course) shift from eco-socialism to neoliberals who don’t especially care about the environment. Sure they might say the right thing now and then but Green politics has been a way for these people to get a place in, or near power to push their form of activism.
People like Herbert aren’t interested in creating a better Scotland for people so that as you say, things like the train line beyond Dunblane is electrified to help reduce emissions. They aren’t even too bothered about the free ports or workers’ rights. He’s only interested in using the political clout of the Greens with the young especially, to push Trans issues and make him more important and to get him and his creepy mates to access spaces which aren’t theirs.
Herbert and people like him have been cuckoos in the Green movement. Hollowing it out to get to their end goal which is rewriting society to fit their vision, and of course, get them and their mates to carry on abusing people with ease.
Independence Live livestream stopped at 1.30.
Here’s another one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcmPFejp_Mk
Hi Ian B.
Posting Twitter links is no longer of any use. You now need to log in to Twitter to see stuff. The change happened last week.
Calls himself a politician, despite never being elected by anyone. Candidate for Kincorth/Nigg/Cove – I wonder what he has in common with anyone there. Where is he from? What were his previous jobs? Who knows? Gives me the creeps.
@BDTT –
Didn’t realise that, thanks.
😉
SNP copyright infringement of Scottish Sovereignty, including fake manifestos, is killing democracy!
Piracy is a crime!
Bootleggers out!
Russel Brand has been talking about big tech censorship a lot recently and this sort of confirms those suspicions.
It might be worth considering Rumble as an alternative to YouTube, they seem far more tolerant to free speech and alternative ideas.
It is increasingly popular too. Russel Brand for example has over 1 million subscribers on Rumble.
YouTube is house of cards, such things are not confined to individual ‘malicious’ ‘takedown’ notices, there are many abuses including the current ‘musical royalties’ one.
That scam is is just spamming videos with any music content, and claiming royalty payments, which Youtube just processes in similar fashion to ‘takedown’ notices: No verification, pay the man.
A nice little earner.
Story:
tinyurl.com/2bbwc9yu
Musician Explains.
youtu.be/inr-hBiVHCw
All these social networks are following the same modus operandi – whether Youtube, Reddit, Twitter et-al:
Take content, the value of which is generated freely by users, wall it off, monetize it with Ads, require subscriptions to view, auto-run the operation with bots, treat the users actually generating the content with contempt – profit.
In the vanishingly few points of operation where there is a human in the loop, you are lucky if it isn’t someone appointed with an agenda – but generally it is.
The Wild West of the Webz v1.0 is over, v2.0 is just beginning elsewhere – because, y’know vacuums, and the fact humans get pissed off.
As someone may have said: ‘Their subscription models are predicated on being marginally more attractive than piracy…’
Ian Brotherhood @2:02pm
Thanks for the link, Ian.
Had a quick look but too much to bear for any length of time.
Lots of booing and shouts of “not my King”.
The band just played a tune and it was awful – sounded like the soundtrack to an old Ealing comedy. ‘Passport to Pimlico’ or something.
The whole thing is cringe-worthy – except this time the cringe is on ‘them’.
If Josef Goebbels were alive today he’d just lurv those «engines».
Burn those dusty books, get your feed fresh from big daddy….he really cares.
«Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it»
Orwell, of course.
The ridiculous, humour and irony would have no words either.
In the light of the geriatric monarchic mummery of today, will the SNP and the Scottish national movement just ditch monarchy. Or, do we have to have a referendum on the legality of the process of such a ditching.
Chutzpah, smeddum, audacity, cojones….all it needs.
Scots Republic….sounds cool to me.
Flynn has suspended MacNeil
*Gets popcorn*
So who owns the copyright to “Yackety Sax”?
Time for Angus MacNeil to leave the Sturgeon cult and join Alba, surely. What’s preventing you Angus?
Flynn has suspended MacNeil.
Sounds like there was a frank exchange of views,Angus offered him out, and your man bottled it,and put ABN on the naughty step.
Angus could be the next to chuck it. He’s had a good run on the green benches, and has a worthy opponent for his seat at the next election in Labour’s Torquil Crichton.
As a foreigner from a climate where the only reason to be inside is to get out of the hot sun, not the rain and chill wind, the public image is of significance.
What people see influences perceptions of events. The image IS the message.
The Scottish National Movement might benefit from the services of a master of ceremonies as rather too much is left to chance. The kilted FM, nice knees, at the day’s event, such a NO, NO. Anything under that kilt to scared of? World media would love to know.
Also those middle class republicans, suspect they were from elsewhere.
Nothing says “the people’s king” like 6 foot high black barriers around St Giles Cathedral!
Beauvis @ 16.46
I’d have more admiration for any MP/MSP who left the SNP to come to Alba on grounds of principle, rather than because they fell out with their whips.
He couldn’t throw a punch no matter how long his fingers are. Prick.
Where are the ‘real’ men. ???
Where are you btw???
We know Stu has our back.
Where tf are you??
Where are the men?
Hiding behind their women??
YOU CAN STOP IT NOW
Cast your mind back to the phone hacking scandal where the most powerful media giant was untouchable, his newspapers could besmirch denigrate and literally destroy people’s lives which they did on many occasions without any fear of retribution, many celebrities and others tried to bring them to heel and stop their apparent unassailability but it was like a flea biting a bull’s arse it had no noticeable effect
THEN they went too far they hacked the phone of a young murder victim called Millie Dowler and that was the straw that showed normal people the mercenary vileness of what was going on, as far as people were concerned they accepted and even enjoyed the gossip behind the scenes of celebs and their failings and failures , but to intrude and sensationalise the personal details of a young normal girl brutally murdered was reprehensible and downright sickening , the boundary had been crossed and the establishment HAD to act (incompetently as usual but never the less they acted)
This is the same for the banking account closures the people who are currently being attacked for their political views and opinions eg Nigel Farage are not necessarily liked or admired but as evidenced at the brexshit vote PEOPLE listened to him and voted rightly or wrongly for brexshit
So sitting back and enjoying farage’s discomfort or feeling that karma has bitten him maybe enjoyable to some people but what happens when these same scum bastards close the bank account of some family with kids who can’t pay their mortgage and are EVICTED by the same bank who closed their accounts, JUST BECAUSE they reported a teacher who has powerful activist friends for diciplining their child when the child said my MUM told us that there are ONLY 2 SEXES male and female
I definitely feel that Stuart should be approaching Farage and trying to find others in the same banking account mess and to form a CLASS ACTION to FORCE the government to OUTLAW bank account closures with SEVERE penalties including prison for senior executives who fail to act
Flynn has suspended Angus Brendan??FS. Now is the time.
Snpstasaz
Sven @5:22 pm
I agree. But perhaps the row with Brendan O’Hara was on a matter of principle. Do we know?
The whole of them should be withdrawn.
They serve absolutely no purpose there.
Scots aren’t interested in wee daft committee meetings talking shite that Scotland has zero chance of ever changing.
It’s a complete farce & I don’t blame Angus for snapping to the latest member of the Gestapo – he’s travelling all the way from Barra to listen to a whole lot of shite that is irrelevant to Scottish Independence.
& Somebody seriously needs to remove Dumbzas kilt. It’s an insult & is giving me the cringe. Another fckwit Britnat mincing about the establishment looking for some scrap of recognition. It’s beyond puke inducing. Do it in yer own clothes ya roaster lol!
@ twathater at 5.30pm:
“a CLASS ACTION to FORCE the government to OUTLAW bank account closures”
Personally, I’d prefer a class action to outlaw banks! They are nothing but leeches on society, yet we’ve been left with no choice but to use them whether we like it or not.
Beauvais @ 17.41
I have no idea of the cause, Beauvais, however if his leaving the SNP had to delay this length of time before he fell out with them, I’d still question what convictions he brought with him to Alba. He, like the remainder of the SNP MPs, has accomodated himself remarkably well indeed to fitting in to Westminster life.
“Wee Chid says:
5 July, 2023 at 4:23 pm
So who owns the copyright to “Yackety Sax”?”
Whoever’s credited as the songwriter. The publisher may get a cut too, but the performer usually gets the least from a play.
The record’s performed by Boots Randolph, but I can’t lay hands on it to find out the others. Unsorted 7s, tsk…
That dude has such big hands!
Beauvais @ 5:41pm, it is reported that the argument was about Angus MacNeil missing votes. Angus MacNeil has been calling Brendan O’Hara a bully on Twitter. If there is an argument on principle, it does not seem to be on a point of political principle.
Indy 2 now @ 18.04
PMSL. Wow, you’re so correct … and to think I hadn’t even noticed. REALLY big, giant hands.
Swamp the complainant’s channel with spurious reports of the content therein. What’s sauce for the goose…
I wonder if the SNP Western Isles polling figures are tanking?
Dumping the party might give him more of a chance in the General Election.
Sven – 5:22
Fun fact I was told..
Members of parliament are elected to serve their constituency – not thier party. They may stand for a certain party but once elected they are representatives of thier constituency & can do what they like & defy the whip if they want to.
That’s why Sturgeon could turn the indyref manifesto of 2021 into the Greens nonce party & claim she had a mandate.
How very British – keeping thier options open to view the seating arrangements once duly elected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBslXprykHA
Hands that fill the screen as a deaf signer .
GERI
The British state has no constitution. The rôle and indeed purpose of MPs, beyond being members of a parliament, is undefined.
What they are not is representatives or deputies. Once elected they may please themselves.
The devolved assemblies take their cue from Westminster.
The whole is indeed a mess; illogical, undemocratic and an insult to the electorate.
A bare faced scam.
Thanks to Ian Brotherhood for the link to today’s circus in Edinburgh.
Highlights, ‘not my king’ chorus throughout.
Salvo Flag flying high, front and centre 8 – 9 minutes in, and around this time, the procession of rewarded common folk, a strange selection of Peter Murrell look alikes, chinless hoorey henrys, folk you wouldn’t trust to do any baby sitting, some overgrown mutton chops and a wee lady lollypop wifie, who wore her uniform!!! ‘guan yirsel hen’ – fair cheered me up.
Well done the camera person for closing up the frames to make the crowd look a decent size.
Not my King indeed.
Aye. Nothing is written down so they can backtrack, rub out, amend or add on at will to fit any & every occasion.
Sven says:
5 July, 2023 at 5:57 pm
Beauvais @ 17.41
” I have no idea of the cause, Beauvais, however if his leaving the SNP had to delay this length of time before he fell out with them, I’d still question what convictions he brought with him to Alba. ”
Indeed . Likewise J Cherry , A Regan , F Ewing et al .
What are they doing remaining in the Ship Of Fools that is nuSnP ? An ( empty ) vessel about to hit the rocks . Maybe they imagine if the hang around long enough some miraculous transformation will occur . I seriously doubt it will .
The only thing that could bring about a radical shake-up of the SNP at this point is them getting their arses booted at the next election/s . Even then , it’s possible the poison has gone too deep .
Radio news just had the usual..
American tourist.
English woman who missed the jamboree in England.
Some Scottish woman with marbles in her mouth who came to see the pony..
*It’s all so wonderful isn’t it?*
Ummm NO. Lol!
McNeil poses a threat to the devolutionist SNP. And Scotland United for Independence.
As he’s far more intelligent. And Scottish than the rest of them combined. He speaks fluent Scots Gaelic.
Stephen Flynn isn’t fit to lace the thong of McNeil’s sandle!
He’s obviously taken Mhairi Black’s resignation badly in the exclusive VIP riverside bar for corrupt politicians who think they are celebs.
Herbert Shovelhands.
Starring Donny Jepp.
Coming to a f**ked up cinema near you.
So Sherbert Shovelhands thinks you and Farage are paid agents of Russia looking to destablise the UK and USA political systems,
youtube.com/watch?v=G7J-AnXfn_o
Sherbert Shovelhands. Say his name!
‘Grandma, what big hands you have!’
That cautionary fairy tail wasn’t really about wolves you know.
Alf Baird
I’ve started on another book, I tend to read several books simultaneously on a subject and cross-reference as I go, “A Scots Grammar” (2002) by Dr David Purves.
There seems to be a recurring theme. These passages are from the book’s introduction:
twathater says:
5 July, 2023 at 5:30 pm
I definitely feel that Stuart should be approaching Farage and trying to find others in the same banking account mess
———————————-
headliners has been covering stu’s case for the last week.
So, the King of England, and his concubine, Camilla, were in Edinburgh today, so Charlie could pretend he was also King of Scots. What an odious unpopular, UNELECTED wee man he is. Away back to Englandshire with him. He prefers the English crown, the Edward crown (named after Edward the confessor, an English king), so he should stay down there.
Good to hear the very loud protestors shouting ‘not my king’.
What an awful waste of money, though.
Ottomanboi,
the British people certainly have a constitution. It’s just not written down, and is interpreted between government and the judiciary in Westminster, depending upon who is trying to achieve what. To say that we don’t have one is wrong.
Sherbert Shovelhands, could well catch on.
@ Robert Louis says:5 July, 2023 at 8:05 pm
What an odious unpopular, UNELECTED wee man he is
This will be Humza Yousaf, I assume.
Away back to Englandshire with him
Erm, maybes naw. So where should we send the odious unpopular, UNELECTED wee Yousaf back to?
Bet you wish you had backed Kate in the election, eh Bob? You might now have a leg to stand on.
Typo correction to my post @7:57pm
The line:
A Scots Grammar (2002) by Dr David Purvis.
should read:
A Scots Grammar (2002) by Dr David Purves.
Looks like tranny propaganda is part of the YT set up, YT really is a shit show.
Meanwhile thank f*ck that circus aka the mock coronation is over what an embarrassment House Jocks are to Scotland, fawning over a foreign monarch. I never been a religious person and watching the acolytes of the foreign monarchy the Church of Scotland, fall over themselves to accommodate this farcical nonsense only reinforces my admiration for Richard Dawkins that religion is nonsense.
The English state propaganda machine in Scotland Reporting Scotland really pushed this coronation drivel on their six pm programme, I can’t quite believe I found myself on the same side as Patrick Harvey today.
What is there to say about Scots, probably the most propagandised people in the world, bombarded by the foreign MSM 24/7, we have no means to defend ourselves against England we have no army, navy or airforce, we have no currency or central bank, we don’t even control our borders a foreign country say who lives in Scotland and who doesn’t.
Our assets are stolen on a daily basis, gas oil electricity by a foreign country’s government, this foreign government tells us that we cannot leave this undemocratic set up without their permission, we host this foreign countries nuclear weapons and have no recourse to remove them, this foreign country uses accounting tricks to steal from us daily and then tells us we’d be a poor nation if we left the union.
Our infrastructure is in poor condition, our largest city doesn’t even have an airport rail link, we have the highest drug deaths in western Europe, we have no voice whatsoever within the UN, we have been dragged out of the Single Market by this foreign country which has damaged our economy.
We’re in a sorry state but hey a foreign monarch got crown in a mock coronation today.
The Not My King lot looked like they were mostly bussed in from down south and only using the streets of Edinburgh as the stage for their very British republicanism.
Not Our King would be a better slogan for Scots. Since he wasn’t prepared to be crowned properly as King of Scots then he’s Not Our King. He’s theirs, south of the border.
@Republicofscotland says:5 July, 2023 at 8:48 pm
I never been a religious person
Given that religion is just the acceptance as true of a set of beliefs with no evidence to back them up, your regular posts on here prove that you are very much a religious person. Holding religious or faith-based beliefs on a wide range of subjects.
So who are you lying to RoS? Us or yourself?
@Ottomanboi says:5 July, 2023 at 4:08 pm
Scots Republic….sounds cool to me
As one of the million or so Sovereign Scots who supports the monarchy and wants all the pros and cons of ditching the monarchy openly aired and discussed first, sounds crap to me.
But WTF. Indy insists on hitching its wagon to non-runners. Republicanism, like disarmament, net zero and woke, is as good a candidate for the knackers yard as any to ensure the wagon goes nowhere.
Ideological purity over pragmatism every time! That’s what has propelled support for Yes from 45% to 45% in less than ten years.
The Irish back in the day managed to dump the empire and they are doing better than we are, I see no reason why we shouldn’t look further afield for support in our cause, say Russia or China, the enemy of my enemy is my friend so to speak.
The English security services and the English government along with their media will always try to undermine Scotland, there’s no point in looking to Westminster for fairness and parity, for the English government just cannot afford to let us go.
Our prominent indy politicians and soapbox speakers always look no further than the EU or UN for a nod of support, which is token at best, I say we should cast our nets further, and embrace those big nations that such as China and Russia, that have clout around the globe.
How long I wonder before the penny drops for Scots that we’re going nowhere soon unless we look further afield and embrace what could be a key to progressing out of this propagandised prison we find ourselves.
‘Republicofscotland says’
I agree with every word you say but what’s to do? Marches and demonstrations (while good) achieve nothing. salvo.scot looks to be the best way foreward.
I always wonder at protestants. They’re exactly the same today..
English: Gies all yer money, yer crown, yer trade, yer government, yer army, yer land, yer property, yer seas & we’ll keep the caffliks out.
Proddy: Fckn bargain! Where dae a sign?!!
English: Keep the quill! Consider it a gift. Now fck off out my sight!
Proddy: *Doffs cap* Thank yous! Love ya! Mwah, mwah! We can play choons, lads! & March aboot acting like eejits during silly season!
300+ yrs later…
*Caffffliks…
Caffffliks…
My mind is obsessed with the Caffliks…* 😀
@Republicofscotland says:5 July, 2023 at 9:41 pm
look further afield for support in our cause, say Russia or China
Ooooh, genius, RoS.
We nice cuddly Scots hate nukes, so we can get the Russtis to sabre-rattle their nukes on our behalf. Ideological purity married to virtue signalling. Run that one up the flagpole and see who salutes.
And even better – both the Russtis and the Covid Inventors have solid track records in supporting ex-colonies – in 404 and Taiwan respectively. Who better to support and bankroll our own sovereign nation and culture as we make our independent way in the world than those two bastions of freedom and independent, democratic self-determination?
Yup, iScotland, proudly marching with the Orcs, BRICS in our sporrans, everybody cheering at gunpoint, or off to the camps, being careful to avoid high windows en route. Not so much Alba, as a new Albania.
FFS, give me strength.
Northcode @ 7:57 pm
” “A Scots Grammar” (2002) by Dr David Purves.”
Yes, a great read, and where colonial bilingualism has “introduced a schizoid element into the national psyche”.
Any thinking Scot should be horrified at such psychological effects and the resultant “false persona” of the people; i.e. the ‘I am Scottish and British’ cultural illusion, or Tom Devine’s incorrect ‘dual persona’.
I’d go the Salvo ICJ route myself.
I like Alex & Alba & I’ll vote for them for good governance at Holyrood but as you say, Westminster will just deny, deny, deny. Then what will he do?
It needs to go to an international court.
We need UN decolonisation department. With it comes strict election rules, franchise & an absolute ban on outside interference. That rules out Better Together & the media from the get go as well as any presidents (Obama) they’d like to wheel out..
We either do UDI – States recognise other States, not WM permission slips or ICJ now that there’s no Brits sitting there anymore.
RoS,
if you think that chumming up with either, or both, of Russia and China is a good idea for Scotland, then you are even more mental than most think.
Russia is a pariah state that’s not going to exist in any meaningful sense within 5 years. It’s absolutely busted itself over the last 16 months. Dead as a dodo, economically.
China is an even bigger timebomb, but it hasn’t yet been triggered. The world’s most disastrous demography, 3 times the debt to production ratio of any country in human history, and fast entering a doom loop of price and wage inflation.
Re my 9.41pm comment.
There’s absolutely no way that Scotland is leaving this undemocratic prison of a union without animosity and friction occurring between us and the English government, anyone who thinks that Westminster will just let us leave without a reaction is kidding themselves on.
John Main
You’ve just described the UK there..
Uncanny!
What has the monarchy ever done for you John?
Alan C.
Yes Salvo are trying but so are the English security services who created a fake Salvo page which 90% of indy Scots signed up to thinking it was the genuine page, we are dealing with a nasty undemocratic larger neighbour who’ll play extremely dirty and do whatever it takes to keep us as a prisoner in this farce of a union to rob us.
You need to fight fire with fire as they say and all the nice words and marches in the world won’t achieve a single thing, in 2014 we had a march with 200,000 I think and look where it got us.
The usual Britnats/77th/useful idiots etc in here will always put down Scotland and any feasible routes out of this prison, smaller nations have always looked to larger ones, I see no reason why Scotland couldn’t look towards China or Russia for support of our cause all that is required is a bit of courage and determination, doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different result is madness time for a change I think.
Yer not speaking German cause of the Ruskies.
How quick you are to dismiss a former Allie who lost way more lives & sacked Berlin.
The yanks would still be looking lol
He has the completely right idea before the yanks stepped in to yet again fk everything up.
An EU alliance of nations dealing with external threats during terrorism.
He also told Cameron to *do one* during indyref so that’s a win in my book.
RoS
They will leave.
They’ll have no choice once other states recognise us it’s game over.
& They will because thier standing on the world stage has nose dived since the horrors of Mayhem, BoJo, Farage & Brexshit.
They’re already being frozen out.. BoJo had to resort to loitering at the EU council hoping for an invite in LOL!!
Scruffy fckr..
Wee Chid says:5 July, 2023 at 4:23 pm
So who owns the copyright to “Yackety Sax”?
If you mean the ‘Benny Hill’ version, probably Sony/ATV… the ‘mechanical rights’ to the recording are a different thing to the author’s and publishers rights. …So it depends which recording, which artist etc.
I’m not sure if the BBC version would have used the same recording as ATV (I suspect not) or latterly Thames. I actually worked for Thames in the 80s (never on Benny Hill though) and suspect policy would have dictated they would have recorded their own version with some or other of the ‘house’ musicians.
It’d be interesting if someone ever made a chart of who has broken international law the most…
Yanks
UK
Ruskies
China..
Id put money on it being the top two..
It was the same with RT = no OFCOM strikes. Baaaad!
BBC – 10 gazillion OFCOM strikes. Propaganda everywhere 24/7. Gooooood!
Go figure!
I’ve been a lurker here for more years than I care to remember. I love the work that you do and think you are one of the biggest forces for independence that we have. Please though, stop focusing on people’s physical characteristics. The fact that he is a disgusting human being is enough – no need to focus on the big hands. All that does is give people a stick to beat you with and allow them to undermine the real points that you’re making.
Having a conversation the other day, and, thinking of Monty Python, and the whole ‘what have the Romans ever done for us’ sketch, where gradually a whole list of things like viaducts, sanitation, etc.. all get listed. So the question I would have is this, and quite seriously, what have the English ever done for Scotland?
If you think about it, over history, England has taken our land, our crown, our parliament, our young men to die in their colonial wars with their German cousins, our oil, our gas, our national wealth, our taxes, our engineering and technology, our caledonian forest (to feed the industrial revolution), our wind, hydroelectric and tidal power, and generally our electricity 24/7. Indeed, England has gained a great deal from looting Scotland.
So, what has England ever done for us (Scotland)??
@Republicofscotland says:5 July, 2023 at 10:32 pm
The usual Britnats/77th/useful idiots etc in here will always put down Scotland and any feasible routes out
Naw, two feasible, legitimate routes, without even having to think about it:
1) Competent, honest HR government, leading to popular, democratic appetite for even more of the same from Scots voters, leading to a rational, empowered, professionally run Indy programme, with a majority mandate from us Scots.
2) A clearly-defined, plebiscitary election mandate, and then, assuming a majority of Scots voters are in favour, a rational, empowered, professionally run Indy programme.
In both cases, helped along by judicial use of “show us the money” tactics.
In both cases, the ability to go to the decent parts of the international community and expect their backing, because of the democratic Scottish majorities in favour of Indy.
idiots are Scots who think marching about waving banners, then off down the pub when it all gets a bit boring, are the route to Indy. These are the people who got Scotland the pretendy FM Yousaf. These are the people who need to back down and STF up.
idiots are arrested-development Student Grant types who think Scotland can only get Indy when some big boy lets us have it, with the latest big boys of choice being Orc Central and Home of Covid.
@Robert Louis says:6 July, 2023 at 6:35 am
Good post.
Now, in order for you to fully appreciate the sad irony of your situation, re-post it in Scots, Gaelic, Doric, Norn, or some other indigenous Scottish language.
FFS can we keep this on topic please, i.e. the giant paws of Sherbet Shovelhands.
Some thoughts…
He probably gets a lot of odd jobs, like excavating in tight spots where you can’t get a JCB.
His glove related costs however must be eye watering.
When he goes for a manicure it probably looks like a scene out of Gulliver’s Travels with dozens of people working on a single nail.
You know what they say about big hands.
Don’t know how that applies to NuLadies.
Geri says: 5 July, 2023 at 10:54 pm
You can still access RT without the need of a VPN. Below is a proxy site to it:
https://swentr.site/
Even if they take the above proxy site down, others will pop up.
JOHNMAIN
Re monarchy, if the institution were considered «a must have» by the masses why are there so few of them? Why have so many in Europe been abolished?
I have little time for the substitute either whether, president, dictator or great leader.
Countries need active 24/7 democracy not head of state figureheads with all the fusty militarism that usually goes with the job.
Monarchy UK, and any other substitute, is emblematic of everything pernicious; privilege, extreme wealth, inherited power and influence and «entitlement» all of which ineluctably feed corruption.
Support for monarchy among people of my generation is very low, if they even give it a thought.
Is monarchism just another quasi religious tendency, an impulse to venerate? Elizabeth seemed to satisfy that impulse to perfection. Personally, I prefer to give the non material object of ancient veneration the benefit of the doubt.
So there were multiple arrests at yesterdays farcical mock coronation of a foreign monarch in Edinburgh, the Keystone Cops aka Police Scotland, of which its officers have sworn loyalty to this foreign monarch, arrested folk carrying banners saying not my king. How do we overcome our colonial police forces loyalty to a foreign country. The new head of Police Scotland is an English women, no prizes for guessing where her loyalties will lie.
This reminded me of the coronation in England where the head of I think was The Republic group, who had liaised with the Met police force for months prior to the coronation and both parties had agreed on The Republic demo on the fringes of the event, then on the day of the coronation the Met Police Force swooped on the Republics leader and several of his key people, arresting and detaining them until the coronation was over.
Northcode says:
5 July, 2023 at 8:35 pm
Typo correction to my post @7:57pm
The line:
A Scots Grammar (2002) by Dr David Purvis.
should read:
A Scots Grammar (2002) by Dr David Purves.
=======
Funny that, because both times I read that as Dr David Pervert. My bad.
Robert Louis says:
6 July, 2023 at 6:35 am
…. Indeed, England has gained a great deal from looting Scotland.
So, what has England ever done for us (Scotland)??
I don’t disagree, England has benefited tremendously from the exploitation of Scotland, but we cannot, should not, overlook the reciprocal of those “Scots” who bend over backwards to accommodate the exploitation. Those who actually are bought and sold for English gold, and robustly complicit with Scotland’s exploitation.
Or those “Ephialtes of Trachis” types who are even worse, and betray their own Nation even BEFORE they’re rewarded with their blood-gold.
While there’s nothing particularly remarkable about them, I don’t have any problem with a rampant English Nationalst spouting their misguided bile about Scotland. Idiots are going to id wherever they are. We have our own too.
But nothing churns my stomach more than that repugnant creep of humanity and embarrasment to Scotland, Cole-“We did it for you Beth”-Hamiltion, waxing lyrical about how and why Scotland should never exist, while masquering as a Highland Gentleman in traditional Highland dress. He’s a disgraceful parody of himself without the basic intellect to even see it.
I have many good friends in England. To quote R.B. Cunninghame Graham, “The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”
I wholeheartedly subscribe to that opinion, because I count several such English people as friends, great and generous who DO know there something deeply wrong with the Union.
I also work in a traditional building craft, and frequently find knowledge of Scottish skills and expertise is routinely better informed by skills and expertise in England, and vice versa, Scotland’s skills and knowledge base is frequently tapped into by “The South”.
In many respects, it’s a symbiosis, but its not a complete symbiosis. The doctrines are not inseperable. They are a crutch for one another, but of course, you only need a crutch when you’re lame. Sadly, a great many traditional crafts and skills are not just lame, but are hanging on to life by a thread.
But here’s the twist. Even at it’s closest and most needy, that simbiosis and pooling of Scottish and English knowledge and experience is in no way whatsoever compromised by the issue of Scotland’s Independence. Yet, at the same time, there is no inherent recommendation for Unionism either.
You could see the same simbiosis with France, where Scotland could benefit tremendously from the French Compagnion de Devoirs doctrines, where are much, much closer to traditional apprenticeships than anything currently operating in England of Scotland. Is that, thus, an argument for a Treaty of Union with France? No, of course it isn’t.
My English friends, at least to the extent I know their feelings on the subject, do not feel threatened in any way by my Scottish Nationalism, because they understand where it comes from. We can talk about it freely with no animosity or offence taken.
To give a parallel which even the dimmest Proud-Scot-but should grasp, what did the Union ever to for Scotland’s actual Army? What did the Union ever do to Scotland’s actual Navy? They removed it’s capacity to be Scottish. Neither now exist.
Now ask yourself the same question about Scotland’s carpenters, stonemasons, fabric weavers, or any other trade or craft you can think of, and why not, let’s include banking and Law, – In what way are ANY of these enhanced by the inability to thrive as Scottish?
British whisky? British Tweed? British Lamb or Beef?
Their future is the same future as Scotland’s military. Once the toast and trusted elite of France’s Monarchy with their Scottish honour guard. Did the French ever belittle their Scottish Origins? Never. They were appreciated and respected.
But nowadays the Scottish Soldier is reduced to nothing more than a rump cap badge, where every Scottish Soldier is branded with a regimental emblem of royal allegiance to the King of England, while the Briddish Army indecently purloins and desecrates Scotland’s kilts, tartans, bagpipes and traditional prowess on the battlefield as modern essentials if the “British” Military… Who the fk do they think they are?
They are robbing us, and leaving the very dimmest of us “proud” to be robbed.
Scotland and England would flourish in symbiosis, but what have to endure is not a symbiosis but an unrestrained parasitism where Scotland is the unfortunate host being bled dry and starved of vitality…
Before there can be any chance of a thriving symbiosis, Scotland first needs rid of it’s parasite, and given time to replenish it’s health as a Independent Nation empowered to make it’s own decisions. It really is that simple.
The King isn’t foreign. His grandmother was fully Scottish, which gives him at least 25% Scots blood, which is enough.
“Once the King had finished being driven past, four of us were immediately arrested and taken into the church behind us.
“We were told we were arrested under breach of the peace for saying ‘f**k the King’ too loudly where kids might hear it or something.”
On the above its okay to allow drag queens into schools with their disgusting actions, and its fine to inject kids with hormones and tell them its okay to cut off their body parts, but heaven forbid that they hear any foul language at the farcical coronation.
Second Lieutenant ASA knows Brian’s genotype.
Fascinating
The police force have become a compete farce especially down in the Met.
Racist, misogynist, rapists, murderers, corrupt, incompetent liars, idiots just some of the headlines grabbed in recent times.
We find out decades later someone involved in the Stephen Lawrence killing got away with it although they were told about him and just a few days ago the officer only seconds away from catching a thief assaulting someone refused to attend.
You may not know this but you could pay a fee to the police to register for rapid response if your intruder alarm was installed maintained and monitored by a NACOSS registered company. They have stood this down saying that cut backs prevent them from doing so.
Their numbers have never been reduced.
They say they will do it for Commercial Alarms but theirs response times are shocking to what they were.
`His grandmother was fully Scottish`
The `Queen Mother` was born in England both her parents were born in England,
apart from inheriting some Scottish estates i don`t see the `fully Scottish`.
@ A Scot Abroad
‘His grandmother was fully Scottish’
Nonsense. The late Queen Mother was born in Hertfordshire. Both her parents were born in Belgravia.
Inspector of Constabulary Frank Williamson famously said that the MET was one third corrupt, one third not corrupt but knew corruption was going on, and one third too dim to see any corruption.
That was in the 70s.
Same old story.
Steven House ex MET arrived in Scotland in 2007 to help organise Police Scotland.
Inspect*r of C*nstabulary Frank Williams*n famously said that the MET was one third corrupt, one third not corrupt but knew corruption was going on, and one third too dim to see any corruption.
That was in the 70s.
Same old story.
Steven H*use ex MET arrived in Scotland in 2007 to help organise P*lice Scotland.
@ A Scot Abroad
It was all going so well when you decided to engage with other ranks.
Now the wheels are well and truly off your bogey. Either you are suffering from battle fatigue or you are swapping shifts with someone less competent.
Johnlm says:
5 July, 2023 at 6:19 pm
“I wonder if the SNP Western Isles polling figures are tanking?”
The SNP have ZERO chance of retaining the Western Isles parliamentary seat.
Reasons are simple – CalMac fiasco and “protected marine areas”. Oh and that clown Humza saying he was prioritising urban areas (central belt) rather than anywhere else.
I was up there last month and NOBODY has a good word to say about the SNP. They’re done in the island communities for the next decade or more.
Unfortunately this means that twat Torcuil Crighton will get in for Labour.
BREEKS
It is a fact that outside these islands most consider Scotland a part of England. Not a few English also consider Scotland UK property. Protesting otherwise is politely indulged but the political reality of being a subordinate is indicative.
It is worth pondering why that is so. The pondering ought to be enough to drive the thoughtful, those who know the existential score in such matters, to independence.
Scotland, that is those who ruled, gave up her independence at a time when nations were forming in western Europe. The union only got through by the skin of the teeth as Scotland quickly descended into the Jacobite civil wars and wasn’t considered «safe» until Walter Scott reimagined the country as a wild ‘n’ romantic land of tartan losers
Staring at England’s rear, you’d think people would be sick of the view.
I find it cringe to swear allegiance to a foreign king.
There’s something not right in the head about it with those *proud Scots* & fluter types too.
Especially if yer Scottish.
Someone mentioned Python – I’m reminded of ‘He’s not the Messiah..’
Aye, he isn’t. He’s just a spoilt, sponging, thieving bastard of NO standing here – a nobody that serves absolutely no purpose but to keep us in the dark ages with all the cringe pomp & ceremony that’s a grotesque waste of money & to keep the fluters fluting on our streets puking, pissing & having a wank over Lizzie.
Also what have the English ever given us?
This sectarian pish & plenty of it! A cancer that seeps into every single institution & position. Free Masons, Orange order etc. Our police & legal system is rife with the parasites.
It will always be that shit that will keep Scotland chained to the leeches..
What a farce yesterday. Were forced this shit cause of *tourists* If they love them so much & they enrich Thier lives then they should piss off back to thier own country & reintroduce one of thier own.
I can’t stand them. Can anyone tell? Lol! Toe curling pomp & dressed up like eejits. It was no mistake he dressed for the occasion – he’s willy waving to the Scots to stamp his Unionist authority.
The next indy FM must put a referendum on the monarchy in a manifesto. The crown is a seperate Union. Let’s see the establishment try get out of that one..
Once they’re out of Scotland Indy will have a better chance..
Hopefully this crap will die out soon. If they were really Christian at all they’d know there was no one ever born to rule. Thier religion & beliefs are more satanic than Christian.
I quite agree Geri. Yesterday’s cringeworthy show was all about ‘know your place Scottish peasants’. It’s bad enough watching the English doffing their cap and tugging their forelock to the parasites (they are used to it because they are piss-weak) but to See Scottish folk do the same is vomit inducing.
@ Geri
This 3 min Monty Python sketch seems appropriate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng
PacMan 8:32
Cheers for the link!
& Note to self today. Must look up how to delete bad autocorrect before Main is on my case lol..
Dan
Brilliant!! 😀 😀
Love Python..
Scot Abroad says:
‘The King isn’t foreign. His grandmother was fully Scottish’
You seem to have adopted the English version of monarchs & why it was never compatible here in Scotland. Doesn’t matter where she was from or what bloodline she had. No one had a devine right to rule in Scotland.
The Scottish crown was given to parliament to signify the monarch would hear & do as he was telt by the ppl he was elected to serve. The Scots – who were sovereign. Not the other way around.
Scots could sack their monarch & appeal to the international community (The pope at the time – who was also an elected official) if he was being a barsteward. Hence the declaration of Arbroath the yoons like to call *just a silly wee letter of no significance* lol! Naw, it was an appeal to the international community laying out Scots constitution.
Geri,
meaningless ancient guff. The King is the head of state of the United Kingdom, which includes Scotland, and will continue to remain in existence for many decades, and more probably, centuries to come.
I read this comment in the Daily Telegraph today. The author suggests that Scotland and England no longer exist as set out in the Treaty of union 1707. I don’t know what to make of it….
…..In fact the Treaty of Union of 1707 completely and permanently abolished the two kingdoms (the contemporary styling of what are now known as countries) of Scotland and England and replaced them with the single state known as Great Britain:
“That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof and forever after be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain”. (Union with England Act 1707, former Scottish Parliament).
dasBlimp @ 10:57 am
“to See Scottish folk do the same is vomit inducing”
A colonial native elite and bourgeoisie tend to have a “culturally intertwined political identity”, which is a nationalist ideology; they view themselves as British.
DasBlimp
English guff. It never happened. The Act of Union was a wishlist with pre negotiated terms.
Scotland remained Scotland & England remained England. Separate & distinct from each other & the forever part is also rubbish or they wouldn’t be trying their best to write a new Act of Union to lock us in.
England awarded itself over 500 seats in the GB parliament.
Scotland has 59 lol! (Soon to be reduced)
Where did this magical unionist state only favour the English? That was handy eh?
A great win today for LGB alliance. The second most meaningful win in battling this cultural ideology since Maya Forstarter verdict – that is believing in the biological reality of sex is a belief worthy of respect.
To those who think that it’s not got much to do with indy – it’s got everything to do with it. It’s the main purpose of the snp these days which cleaves to this woke rubbish like flies round the proverbial. This globalist guff needs to go before we can really get back on track.
Well done Stu.
dasBlimp @ 12:44 yes but that’s not actually what happened. The Treaty and Acts of Union are internally inconsistent.
RoS and others suggesting aligning ourselves with Russia and China- there are those who say that Wings BTL is full of zoomers.
Can’t for the life of me think why…
Constitutions, Laws and politics are self-delusions.
Look for – Trick, by Marcus (on YouTube)
I’m not aligning but not a BBC Ruskiephobe either cause they say I have to be 24/7
There will be reorder of things tho so never say never. We’re a colony for now – we’ve no foreign policy.
Terry, by the looks of it the SNP will be having one big orgy in Holyrood between debates if they’re not stopped lol their latest polyamory in schools fgs. It wasn’t that long ago there was a public health crisis over sexually transmitted diseases.
They’re a weapon & need removed.
DID you know,
The Treaty of the Union has never been given Royal Assent ever.
Stravaiger
Also, re never say never, it wasn’t that long ago Cameron begged him to interfere in indyref along with Obama & we all know which one jumped at the chance..
Why would Cameron do that & who chose them as observers to the indyref count?
That would’ve looked real smart. Overseeing the count AND taking a side at the same time.. whit an eejit Cameron was to think that’d work..
” A Scot Abroad says:
5 July, 2023 at 10:10 pm
RoS,
if you think that chumming up with either, or both, of Russia and China is a good idea for Scotland, then you are even more mental than most think.
Russia is a pariah state that’s not going to exist in any meaningful sense within 5 years. It’s absolutely busted itself over the last 16 months. Dead as a dodo, economically.
China is an even bigger timebomb, but it hasn’t yet been triggered. The world’s most disastrous demography, 3 times the debt to production ratio of any country in human history, and fast entering a doom loop of price and wage inflation.”
They’ve obviously started putting magic mushrooms as well as Bromide in the NAFFI canteen tea down at Hermitage Barracks. Either that or we have a follower of Karl Rove’s delusion that its possible to make up your own reality.
Meanwhile, back in the Reality Based Community of empirical objective based evidence:
Economics and Resources:
https://www.leftbrainwave.com/2022/11/the-coming-european-economic-apocalypse.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/raytheon-ceo-china-has-us-military-balls
Taster: “Raytheon Chief Executive Greg Hayes admitted last week that Beijing effectively has the US military’s supply chain by the balls thanks to its reliance on rare earths and other materials which come from, or are processed in, China.”
And that’s in addition to UN votes which have regularly seen member states representing a majority of the worlds population effectively ignoring calls to impose sanctions on Russia and China.
Whilst the states from the Global South queue up to eagerly join the BRICS, Belt & Road, and other similar alternatives offered by an independent Eurasia offering a far better, more sustainable and more reasonable system than that imposed by the current iteration of half a millennium of the doomed rentier paradigm represented by the Western Oligarch controlled IMF/World Bank/WEF.
As for where the future is headed……
https://michael-hudson.com/2023/03/the-collapse-of-antiquity-release/
Taster: “…..the dynamics of interest-bearing debt led to the rise of rentier oligarchies in classical Greece and Rome. This caused economic polarization, widespread austerity, revolts, wars and ultimately the collapse of Rome into serfdom and feudalism. That collapse bequeathed to the subsequent Western civilization a pro-creditor legal philosophy that has led to today’s creditor oligarchies.
In telling this story, The Collapse of Antiquity reveals the eerie parallels between the collapsing Roman world and today’s debt-burdened Western economies.”
I’d stick to counting the railings mate.
DID you know,
That the treaty of union.
That the treaty of union ratification did not convert the Treaty into an Act/s
Seeing as I mentioned Berwick Bank windfarm last night on the other thread in amongst gas discussion.
Good stuff from Kenny MacAskill.
https://www.albaparty.org/as_nations_benefit_we_lose_out
Re. Grid connection charges… Wonder how this works out with the new Berwick Bank Windfarm having primary and secondary grid connections in different grid connection charge zones.
Namely the primary being Branxton, East Lothian which looks to be in the £12.84 zone, and the secondary being Blyth, Northumberland which is a couple of zones south and 4 quid less at £8.64.
https://www.berwickbank.com/news/berwick-bank-thank-local-stakeholders-lf59t-xcfy8-h5j6r-wj7r9
https://thecommongreen.scot/2016/09/12/grasping-the-grid/
James Che,
that’s because no treaty needs royal assent.
The Acts of Union got royal assent. Because they were acts of parliament, and so need royal assent.
Robert Louis @6:25am
Since it needs saying because avoiding it won’t change anything…
> So, what has England ever done for us (Scotland)??
Well… there is that small matter of opening up a large economy, with a greater number of opportunities, through having a shared language – a single market if you like. The same opportunity that the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand offered, though the move doesn’t need to be a one-way ticket, but sadly, more often than not, it is.
This is the core of the argument by the cringing middle classes of why independence would be to the detriment of the country or at least their offspring’s chances of “getting on in life”.
The same opportunities exist in Europe and elsewhere but since language education is such a catastrophe (likely, not a coincidence) it’s only a lucky/intrepid few that get to find out.
Until the country starts broadening it’s horizons we’re going to be nailed onto England’s arse. Two hundred years ago Scots were everywhere. Now with the homogenisation of culture, our focus and aspirations are largely diminished.
Did you know,
There is no wording that incorporates any part of the treaty of union into Scottish domestic law.
“The MP attended the Bloomberg Qatar Economic Forum and met Qatari and international officials between May 20 and 24.
He was there “to discuss current affairs including regional conflict resolution, labour rights and Qatar-UK bilateral relations”, according to the MPs’ register of interest.
MacNeil had his flights, accommodation and food paid for at a cost of £6,900.
The bill was picked up by Media City Qatar, whose chairman is Sheikh Ali bin Abdullah bin Khalifa Al-Thani.
This was the third time that he has visited the Middle Eastern country this year”
WTF is Angus B. McNeil doing visiting this despotic regime THREE TIMES in one year, that has virtually no human rights.
England (Westminster) has strong diplomatic, military, and economic ties with Qatar, no doubt they’ll be English listening posts in Qatar as well.
England is a busy little bee.
“English military has base sites in five countries around China: naval base in Singapore, garrisons in Brunei, drone testing sites in Australia, three facilities in Nepal and quick reaction force in Afghanistan
Cyprus hosts 17 English military installations including firing ranges and spy stations, with some located outside UK’s “sovereign base areas”
England maintains military presence in seven Arab monarchies where citizens have little or no say in how they are governed
UK personnel are stationed across 15 sites in Saudi Arabia, supporting internal repression and the war in Yemen, and at 16 sites in Oman, some run directly by British military
In Africa, British troops are based in Kenya, Somalia, Djibouti, Malawi, Sierra Leone, Nigeria and Mali
Many UK overseas bases are located in tax havens such as Bermuda and Cayman Islands.
And some in here have the chutzpah to rail when I mention Scotland having relations with Russia and China.
Did you know
That neither the Scottish 1707 parliament nor the English 1707 parliament negotiated the Treaty of the union,
RoS
Scotland has long had ties to Russia as it did to all the other Baltic states. Present difficulties aside, I think it would be in the long term interests of the country to rekindle various relationships, though the Chinese might have a thing or two to say about that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Russians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jardine_Matheson
The real history of Scotland is an ongoing battle to keep the English out so when those Scots aristos invited them in and effectively handed the country to them as a cut price bargain they just couldn’t resist. Since then they have been editing, redacting, expurgating, revising, derogating the history of the country they bought.
They have the mercenary character of the «Scotch» establishment they purchased figured out. The events of yesterday blessed by the local «Shinto» clerics and with men in trad attire carrying baubles. will have given no worries. The presence of Scotland’s soi disant republican prime minister, en travestie, must have given a big thrill.
I honestly thought this was a wind-up when I first heard about it but someone on Twitter kindly sent me the original footage. Turns out it was only a few weeks ago.
It’s Pete Wishart showing just how comfy he is there. His opening remark. Incredible.
It has been suggested by some that he was being ironic in some way?
I don’t think so. Do you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL2Syt1s0rM
RoS,
UK ‘supporting Qatar human rights abuses’ with £3.4bn weapons exports, The National, 16th November 2022, https://archive.ph/XYhOi
Not a whisper about the SNP’s involvement. I wonder why?
I knew he reminded me of someone, it’s Heather Swanson.
RoS,
all of those military facilities are UK, not specifically English. When I was in the Army, the proportion of Scots within the Army was about 18%, twice the proportion of Scots within the UK.
I’d love one of those Brit Nat’s to tell England that it’s country doesn’t exist! I can just picture the carnage & if neither country exists – who the fck is Chucky & where did he come from? LOL!
It’s just the yoon media desperate as always to erase Scotland & it’s status in the Union.
They’re full of contradictory shite – it was only yesterday the same media were spouting pish at how important Scotland’s crown was to the parasites up here for a wee visit.
An awful bother to go to just to see us peasants, if that is exactly what they say we are.
A Scot abroad,
Ahemm .
The English Westminster parliament side of treaty of the union was passed under English Domestic law.
And in Scotland the Scottish side of the treaty of union was also passed under Scottish domestic law,
Know your history.
James Che,
why would any parliament negotiate a treaty? Can you think of any treaty that was negotiated between two parliaments?
It’s why we have Ministers. You don’t appear to understand the basic facts.
Scotland signed the treaty of union under Scottish domestic law, and could not control the parliament in Westminster.
However the English parliament also signed the treaty under English domestic law of England.
Neither party was in each others parliament.
So it was Domestic law,
Royal assent has still not been given,
RoS
Yip. Parasites with their tentacles everywhere.
I don’t think for very much longer tho. World events is going to end their occupation as the East is about done with foreign invaders dictating play. They’ve been finding out since Brexshit that it’s becoming increasingly cold outside.
SNP MPs should only be promoting Scotland & independence & with absolutely NO chaperone from the English government – wtf do they think they are? They already think they’ll curb our wings with travel – but we’re not a colony!!
Did you know,
The Great Seal of Scotland was supposed to have been thrown into the river Thames by King James 11, while he fled, so that government could not continue
The Seal of of the Realm was reproduced, not accurately apparently, for William of Orange.
REPUBLICOFSCOTLAND
The British created the gulf states out of nothing, minor sheikhdoms. The British backed Ibn Saud’s wahhabi conquest of the Hejaz. The oil, of course, was the incentive, as was securing the passage to India with safe fuelling ports.
The Qatar régime is big in UK property. My academic parents now live in Doha and can vouch for the high standard of living it provides the native Qataris, as opposed to the many lesser mortals. It provides a «good living» if you hold your nose, literally, the pollution like the living is high. In the shopping malls you can escape that. https://www.timeoutdoha.com/shopping/472504-best-shopping-malls-in-doha-qatar
The king of GB has received charitable donations from the emir.
James Che,
there’s a difference between a Treaty and an Act. One is a treaty between two states, the other is part of domestic law.
James Che
Was it ever passed tho? I heard they were all in hiding cause there was a mob outside about to batter them..
As 400 military outposts we erected. That made it void from the very start.
ASA
*Can you think of any treaty that was negotiated between two parliaments?*
Yes.
The Good Friday agreement.
Brexshit withdrawal & Mayhem’s constant trials to get one through parliament.
I’m sure there’ll be plenty others..stop being an arse.
It’s amazing what can be done with *worthless* oil eh??
Absolutely gorgeous malls. I’ve seen on TV the personal shoppers to the rich & famous. How the other half live eh? When money is no object & where the whole mall can be closed for just one person..
Scotland doesn’t even have £1 in an oil fund..
Geri,
the Good Friday Agreement wasn’t negotiated between two parliaments. It was negotiated between 10 men and one woman (4 of them neutral) representing 4 political parties.
Try not to parade your ignorance too much.
A Scot Abroad.
Your ignorance is delightful and your bluster over legal matters. Is just that, bluster.
Perhaps you should ask me where I am getting this information from.
& treaty, agreement – the same thing. Recognised by international law. Just as the treaty of Union is & why the international courts will decide when Scotland relinquished it’s status as a country & when England relinquished theirs too & who made England the supreme arseholes in charge of everything..
Because if it was a joint agreement then the English parliament has broken the contract. There should be equal representatives from both sides & not led & dictated to by an English government with 530 seats to 56..
According to Henry David Thoreau Scotland has the best government possible on planet Earth.
Lucky us.
Geri,
I do not believe the treaty of union has any validity for many many reasons.
It appears to be similar to ASA, buster, bluff and colonial bullying,
The more I research the more I can liken it to a lace doily.
Full of holes and paper thin.
Another «useful idiot».
https://inews.co.uk/news/love-middle-east-gary-neville-foreign-money-football-business-2456879?ITO=msn
What exactly is it these people love about the megarich bits of the «Middle East»
The socialism maybe? Mr Neville.
ASA
It was negotiated by the Northern Irish & UK governments with the USA & EU as guarantors to uphold it in international law under death to who dares break it.
It doesn’t matter who was there – it was drawn up by their parliament’s & entered into international law.
You should’ve paid attention to parly instead of fcking about with a gun on the streets of NI playing Rambo..
ASA says:
“When I was in the Army, the proportion of Scots within the Army was about 18%, twice the proportion of Scots within the UK.”
I was a civilian instructor for a few weeks, teaching a specialist subject to Non-Marine Tier 1 forces Directing Staff instructors.
I noticed, and commented to a fellow Scot who was at the time an SNCO in 22Sqn, that it appeared to me that almost half of his unit were Scots.
His reply: “Aye, ‘cuz wurr harrd basturts, Sir”.
He’s right.
James Che..
Aye, the *call Kaye* brigade of self loathing Scots wanting the English to ‘just get us telt..’
Telt what, Billy Boyne?
‘I dunno – just gonnie tell them we’re British & we’ll die British?’
What’s British? A geographical location?
‘I dunno’
😀 😀 lolz
Zzzzzzz
James Che
There was a good discussion by Salvo the other day on YouTube. Titled *Who we are* I didn’t get to finish the whole episode as I had to go out but the bloke in the car (didn’t catch his name) was interesting listening if anyone hasn’t seen it yet..
Geri,
it was absolutely not negotiated between the Northern Irish and Irish governments. It was an agreement (legally known as the multi-party agreement, or MPA) between Northern Irish political parties. The Anglo-Irish agreement consisted of four short articles, and was merely an agreement between Dublin and London to give legal effect to the MPA, which they did via legislation to have two referenda, one being to agree the 19th amendment to the Irish constitution, the other being for the people of NI to confirm that they agreed the MPA.
It certainly wasn’t a treaty negotiated by two parliaments.
You really shouldn’t make up stuff. It makes you look duplicitous and stupid.
Geri.
How does that sound when you run it through your head,
Military tactics to make Scots sign a treaty with England,
Englands army holding a gun to Scots heads until we signed a treaty with them,
You vill sign a tweety wiv us wevver you vont or not.
Re the bloke in the cars name..
Ivan Bishop.
“all of those military facilities are UK, not specifically English. When I was in the Army, the proportion of Scots within the Army was about 18%, twice the proportion of Scots within the UK.”
——————
That “twice the proportion of Scots within the UK” remark brought something to mind. Regarding WW1, Sir Tom Devine (T.M.Devine) has the following passage on page 309 of his book ‘THE SCOTTISH NATION 1700-2000’ —
“Thousands of young Scotsmen flocked to join the colours as the nation provided more voluntary recruits in proportion to population than any other part of the United Kingdom. Of the 157 battalions which comprised the British Expeditionary Force, 22 were Scottish regiments […] The human losses were enormous and unprecedented. Of the 557,000 Scots who enlisted in all services, 26.4 percent lost their lives. This compares with an average death rate of 11.8 percent for the rest of the British army between 1914 and 1918. Of all the combatant nations, only the Serbs and the Turks had higher per capita mortality rates, but this was primarily because of disease in the trenches rather than a direct result of losses in battle. The main reason for the higher-than-average casualties among the Scottish soldiers was that they were regarded as excellent, aggressive shock troops who could be depended upon to lead the line in the first hours of battle.”
Surely one of the most cataclysmic consequences of the 1707 Union with England was the handing over of our manhood in perpetuity as canon-fodder under English command. A futher historic quote (not from Devine’s book) comes to mind —
“I should imagine that two or three independent highland companies might be of use; they are hardy, intrepid, accustomed to a rough country, and no great mischief if they fall” (Major-General James Wolfe, Heights of Abraham, Québec, 9 June 1751. Wolfe had been present at Culloden in 1745.)
“all of those military facilities are UK, not specifically English”
You might be able to fool some with your Britnat propaganda but not me, the English army/navy/airforce is controlled from London.
Scots in Scotland don’t decide which country to destroy, Westminster decides to invade asset strip and murder and pillage in the name of democracy and freedom, then in some cases install a puppet leader.
If some Scots want to join this foreign fighting force and carry out Westminster’s bidding which is usually killing in some Third World country for the benefit of big business, of which certain politicians receive a kickback, them more the fools them.
The English forces used to, and probably still do, travel around poor areas of Scotland looking to sign up Scottish cannon fodder that should be stopped immediately, our Highlanders learned a lesson, I think it was General Wolfe who called them no great loss if they fall in battle, eventually they told Westminster to use sheep to fight for them, as the Clearances put the welfare of sheep above them.
I’d implore Scots not join this foreign fighting force, I see English frigates built on the Clyde in my home town and I say to myself, one day those ships will be used against an independent Scotland by the foreign government in England.
Following translated by me from the Gaelic of Donald MacCormick (youtube video) —
“The worst disaster to ever hit the Gaels was the Battle of Loos 25 Sept 1915. Three Scottish Divisions. 15th Scottish Division, 9th Scottish Division, and 51st Highland Division. The worst blow 9th Scottish Division, 26th Brigade. On the right were the men of North Uist, Strathspey, and Lochaber. On the left were the men of South Uist, Benbecula, and Skye, under Major Arkshaw, who fell at the head of his men. The first two lines went forward and were absolutely wiped out. Line after line was mown down. Of the 760 men who went over the top, only 70 came back. And of the 700 who were killed, you could probably say that 90% of them were Gaelic-speakers. And I don’t think Gaeldom ever got over it. And Scotland as a whole. It was a black day for Scotland. The three Divisions had 14,000 casualties at Loos. Percentage-wise, more Scots were killed in First World War than any other country. The English lost 11%. The Germans lost 12%. The French lost, I think, 14 or 15%. The Scots lost 27%. One in every hundred was a Scot. I couldn’t get over the figures. And after the disaster of Loos, and the wiping out of the Camerons, Lochiel put out an appeal — I have a copy of it here — saying ‘Another thousand Highlanders wanted for Lochiel’s Brigade of the Cameron Highlanders.’ That notice went up throughout the country, after 700 of them lying dead. [Head shake] That was pretty tough. You know. Pretty tough.”
Geri @4:14 pm
“*Who we are*”
Here is another: https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/06/20/who-are-the-scots/
Ottomanboi.
The English government supports terrorism. the below is circa 2021.
England/Qatar squadron will be established in September in Yorkshire, northern England
Joint unit is part of a £6-billion deal for the England to sell Qatar 24 Typhoon warplanes
Qatar is known to have financed militant Islamist groups in Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan and Gaza which the English government regards as terrorists.
There’s already a English/ Qatari squadron which operates out of RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire. The English airforce uses the Al Udeid airbase in Qatar to bomb civilians in Syria.
Fearghas MacFionnlaigh,
How very sad but true, eloquently spoken.
Alf 4:50,
Cheers! I’ll add it to the queue!
To this day we may find that Scots are nothing more than vermin to to be exterminated by some politicians down south,
Yet handy while they themselves cower,
For it is easy to go to war and send men to fight their egotistical battles for them when they are far away smoking cigars and port,
Every politician that leads a battle cry should send forth two of their own family members in to the front lines.
Stuart MacKay.
The machinations of the foreign government in England run much deeper, what we see is just the tip of the iceberg here’s another example of this foreign country’s hypocrisy.
“Britain/England has 91 troops ‘on loan’ to Oman, where serving UK military pilots are flying Omani fighter jets, helicopters and military transport planes under a secretive scheme designed to bolster the repressive monarchy.”
“Britain/England military is supporting the autocratic rule of Sultan Haitham bin Tariq in Oman — a country in which political parties and independent media are banned. Haitham holds absolute power – acting as the country’s unelected prime minister and minister of defence, finance and foreign affairs.”
I am just in after a wander during which I made a slight tweak to my route and went into Cathkin Park at the Mount Florida entrance on Cathcart Road. As soon as you walk in there is a sign and someone has put a sticker on it which says Pump Ass, Not Gas and has a rainbow on it. Everything, every cause, everywhere we go is being queered and trannied.
Main, Geri, A Scot Abroad and other “names” who have swamped Wings with their never ending shite, must make it an easy choice just to cancel your monthly subscription to Wings Over Scotland.
If those “Names” love Wings as much as their multiple posts suggest,,,then let them pay the Rev the going rate to keep this site up and running.
Who in their right mind is going to pay the Rev every month,,,only to see post after post from these “names”?
They are on here to fuck the site right up. Only a fuckin idiot would converse with them.
So the best thing to do is to STOP paying the Rev.
Interesting that on a thread regarding censorship my (mainly positive but with a critical suggestion) previous comment has not been published after 24 hours.
Republicofscotland, re joining the U.K. armed forces,
fortunately, many proper Scots have more courage and sense than you exhibit. You are just a moaning embarrassment to the land.
It looks like Henry David Thoreau wasn’t a big fan of the way states treat their citizens.
With regard to Herbert’s humungous hauns, we should get him a set of Joy Division Oven Gloves.
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh @ 4:25 pm
“the handing over of our manhood in perpetuity as canon-fodder under English command”
An independent Scotland, like Ireland since 1922, would likely have kept well out of most of England’s frequent conflicts with other peoples and nations, of which there has been around 80 since the end of WWII alone, with about 100 others prior to it. WWI was itself a war between the ‘Great Imperial Powers’, and a total waste of life from a Scottish perspective. England used the Indian army similarly in numerous colonial conflicts in Asia and Africa, and likewise formed native armies to suppress African colonies. Some Scots have clearly still to figure out that colonialism ‘is always a co-operative venture’ with native elites, including in Scotland.
@Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh, 6 July 4.25
Don’t forget the second part of that quote from General Wolfe
“How better can you employ a secret enemy than by making his end conducive to the common good?”
Hey “Ron Clark”, you’re hardly a contributor of stellar btl content yersel, but jist wondering if you double the amount you chip in to Stu seeing as you also post under the name of “Wilson McBride” too…
Anton Decadent,
Here’s a tasteful pair for $25, https://www.amazon.com/ChienAndalucia-Division-Oven-Gloves-Mitts/dp/B07SC9DNTG. Not sure if they have a size big enough though.
Ian B thank you for that u tube link to a REAL TUBE, what a fucking embarrassment that clown pishfart is, he stands there spouting his pish and soaking everyone around him with his uncontrollable mouth urine, I wouldn’t like to sit next to him when he spouts ye’d get covered in spittle
@ Ron Clark at 5.13pm:
“So the best thing to do is to STOP paying the Rev.”
There are some deeply tedious and annoying trolls on Wings Over Scotland without a doubt, but with a comment like that, I suspect Rev Stu will regard you as the biggest troll of the lot.
Are you seriously attempting to blame Rev Stu because certain commenters post opinions you happen to disagree with?
A Scot Abroad says: at 5:18 pm
“re joining the U.K. armed forces,
fortunately, many proper Scots have more courage and sense than you exhibit. You are just a moaning embarrassment to the land.”
It’s a pity you can’t say that to an auld mate that was sent into conflict over nonexistent WMDs, and who came home in a wooden box. He may have had a different take on the reality of being in the armed forces.
I’ve had words with some posh officer type over the matter and he admitted they shouldn’t have been there. So he was either telling truth or he was a spineless lying twat.
«No great mischief should they fall» Wolfe said dismissively of the Highland soldiers fighting for England’s glory at Québec.
Vive la France!
@Stuart MacKay
Scary to think that it is eighteen years since that album was released. I’m going to dig it out of the racks for another listen. Piccalilli shinpads.
Ron Clark
*then let them pay the Rev the going rate to keep this site up and running.*
And pray tell how you know if I/they don’t?
You only post links to unionist rags in-between barking orders at how shite the posters are. Yer hardly high brow, windswept & interesting yerself. I do hope yer on commission tho for pigeon posting yer shit everywhere on behalf of the click baiting rags..
Re Cannon Fodder..
Scots would have popular sovereignty & decide which wars we enter ourselves – not doing another countries bidding.
We’d also make our own allies & I certainly don’t see us being invaders & occupiers. That’s Brit nat shit.
But reminds me of 2014 indyref & Salmonds fav protest song (hope link works)
Freedom come all ye
//youtu.be/V4HLpNybgss
It should also be noted that the foreign monarch who had a pretendy coronation in Edinburgh yesterday has a darker side.
“Prince Charles, now King, has held 95 meetings with eight repressive monarchies in the Middle East since the ‘Arab Spring’ protests of 2011 threatened their power. Charles has played a key role in promoting £14.5-billion worth of UK arms exports to these regimes in the last decade.”
“Charles’ visits tend to whitewash the Middle Eastern monarchies’ human rights abuses, often coinciding with repression of opposition activists or the media.
He plays a key role in cementing UK relations with key allies, acting as a de facto high-level salesman for British arms exports and promoting military cooperation.
While the palace emphasises his cultural visits, Charles’ meetings are often with senior military, intelligence and internal security officials.
Charles is also the patron of the UK intelligence agencies.”
This foreign monarch who pretends to be king of Scots with the aid of a few House Jocks, isn’t all that he’s made out to be.
This foreign king has been hawked around just about every odious Middle East dictatorship, to sell arms to them and curry favour to allow military bases to be present in their countries, in return Westminster turns a very blind eye to the dictatorships actions on the domestic scene.
Dan @5.58pm.
The English government promised the UN that it was committed to not sending child soldiers into battle, however child soldiers were sent to Iraq and Afghanistan.
A 2016 report found that soldiers recruited aged 16 and 17 were twice as likely to be killed or injured when in combat compared to those that were enlisted aged over 18.
Dan,
your old mate wanted to be in the forces. If he discovered that he didn’t, he’d have left.
We all of us knew that being in the forces comes with risk to life. It’s a sad fact, but sometimes those risks turn into reality.
This is a MUST read.
https://archive.ph/M4nHO
iScots could just be faced with similar.
A Scot Abroad said;
“The King isn’t foreign. His grandmother was fully Scottish, which gives him at least 25% Scots blood, which is enough.”
Enough to be deemed a sovereign Scot? Well, that’s the franchise for the referendum sorted; 25% or more of Scottish genetic heritage, and currently resident in Scotland.
“meaningless ancient guff. The King is the head of state of the United Kingdom, which includes Scotland, and will continue to remain in existence for many decades, and more probably, centuries to come.”
He can hardly be the head of state of the UK, if he is isn’t monarch of Scotland, since not having taken the Scottish Coronation Oath, he has no regal authority in or over Scotland, and cannot use the title of King of Scots. In fact Scotland as a kingdom hasn’t had a legal monarch since the death of Queen Anne in 1714, as she was the last Scottish monarch to have taken that Oath. England’s monarchy has no authority of any kind in or over Scotland, and never has, because English monarchical oaths have no legal standing in Scotland, and never have.
I saw an article on a website earlier today that blithely stated that there could be no Scottish coronation for Charles ‘because Scotland has not operated as an independent royal realm for over 300 years, so it would be inappropriate — and inaccurate — for Charles to be crowned as King in Scotland.’ But there was no mention that England hasn’t operated as an independent royal realm for over 300 years either.
It is unbelievably stupid and/or dishonest to claim that one or both kingdoms were abolished! They were not, it is an English establishment lie, and there is nothing in the Treaty that required abolition, because all it did was create a club with the two kingdoms as sole members, and called that club the ‘Kingdom of Great Britain’. The two members still very obviously retain all aspects of their previous independent selves, except for their parliaments, which merged into one shared parliament for the purpose of joint governance of the two still existing and very distinct sovereign but non-self-governing kingdoms. That merger was the only real one, and the English establishment deliberately banjaxed its implementation in their favour.
The very fact of the continued existence, after more than 300 years, of two legal systems, two constitutions, two sovereignties, two state religions, two crowns with two different regal, legal, and constitutional privileges and obligations, along with all the headaches and miseries caused by all these permanent inconsistencies and incompatibilities that meet at the clearly defined border proves beyond all sane doubt that neither kingdom vanished into the ether, nor merged into one seamless homogenous kingdom.
One kingdom, whole and entire?
Yeah, right! Looks to me like Scotland at least has been a de facto republic for 309 years.
Xaracen,
you are on a very lonely path when you deny that the King is head of state of the UK. He is. And the UK includes Scotland, so clearly he’s also the head of state of Scotland, a sovereign nation within the UK.
Just ask around. Nobody is saying any different.
Ottonmanboi @7:01pm
I knew about Blackrock but not the rest, thanks. Here’s similar breakdown for agriculture, https://www.oaklandinstitute.org/sites/oaklandinstitute.org/files/Brief_CorporateTakeoverofUkraine_0.pdf
I have no idea who the Oakland Institute are but even if you take the whole thing as anti-corporate propaganda the numbers are still impressive.
It’s my understanding that the greatest amount of industry and the best farmland is over in the east. I wonder how far they will push the situation to secure their investments?
Alf baird @4.50
Im breaking my self imposed btl exile to comment on your post.
The Creation myths of the Picts, Scots and Irish are near identical , as per the Declaration of Arbroath , came fom Greater Scythia , via the Tyrrhenian Sea , iberia (for 500 years ) then What is now Great Britain and Ireland ( in the geographic sense)
Modern DNA analysis says we came from what was called Anatolia (modern day turkey and surrounding countries) and the later the Stepps , both are in Greater Scythia.
The first People who settled in Europe were Neolithic Farmers who came from Anatolia and moved via the the Tyrrhenian Sea to Iberia snd thence up the Atlantic Seaboard as far as Orkney and as far West as Ireland. According to the latest Archaeology these people were the Megalith builders and formed the Celtic Culture and Language. They arrived on these shores about six thousand years ago , about 4500 years ago, other people arrived, the Beaker People which brought in the Bronze Age, now whilst the People living on Sardinia in the Tyrrhenian Sea to this day have over 90% Neolithic farmer DNA , in Great Britain and Ireland approx 90% of Males have Beaker People DNA and 90% of Females have Neotlithic Farmer DNA. So the creation Myths are correct again. Interesting that according to the Rev in a tweet a few months ago the Average Hight of a Uk Female was 5’ 3”.
The average hight of a Neolithic farmer was 5’ 3”!
According to DNA outside SE England and East Anglia the People of England are mainly Celts.
So where do the Scots come from well a mixture of Neolithic Farmer and Beaker People , like most of the rest of Europe, the only difference is the Celtic Culture and Language which is the Indigenous Language of these parts
Some contempary writing on the Picts said they were small and swarthy, the modern day Sardinians are thus described! At first i thought it was Bede’s Propaganda but now with the DNA evidence it was more than likely true, according to some reports 10%of Scots have Pictish DNA, so we’re the Picts from the Original Neolithic farmers? Or was it just the females and is that where the matrilineal Society come from as a way of protecting the original neolithic line?
Anyways some fascinating stuff coming out now.
Interesting read on Britains involvement with Terrorist groups.
https://files.libcom.org/files/NATOs_secret_armies.pdf
Iguana spit.
Nuscience
https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-06-28-lizard-saliva-23andme-dna-testing-fraud-ancestry.html
O/T. Commiserations to Scotland for missing out on the cricket world cup after losing in the qualifiers to the Netherlands on net run rate in Bulawayo today. Better luck next time!
Scots are the descendants of the atlantean refugees who fled after their cataclysmic war against the dinosaurs which caused the ice age.
Anglos are the descendants of the hideous Fomorians from Tory Island. (Fomorians look like 6 foot iguanas, which walk on 2 legs)
No one can read about Gladio without fundamentally changing their beliefs about what “terrorism” is.
ancestry.com is better, I think it is run by the mormons; 23andme do random crap like making you 1perdent ashkenazi or bantu
but ultimately, its the vatican which controls all of this, according to our good friend billy
He is the king of England.
That country that apparently doesn’t exist anymore.
Did anyone ask us lately if we wanted him?
He is here by consent of the sovereign Scots & unless he bends the knee & takes the full oath /we have a referendum – he has no legal standing here. That was party of the treaty. An internationally recognised document in international law. So it’s far from ancient guff.
The UK is exactly the same – who turned it into English rule under this fictional state that went from a trading partnership to 300+ yes of asset stripping, land grab & forbidden from taking a shit without their permission?
Who gave them such authority?
The English aren’t sovereign. Only Chucky’s parliament is.
Heads of state can be removed. Just ask the countries that’s dumping him.
He isn’t anything special.
Why do you like him so much? What’s he done for you?
Xaracen @ 7:11 pm
“Looks to me like Scotland at least has been a de facto republic for 309 years.”
De facto colony mair like. Charles was crowned with St. Edwards Crown which is used to crown English monarchs, and then wore the Imperial State crown. As you say, no Scottish oath, but also no Scottish crown placed on his heid means he cannae be King o Scots.
He is as he was crowned, the King of England and its Imperial State. Outside of the Imperial State mother country and its metropolitan capital there can be only subordinate colonial territories and peoples.
Yesterday was just like old times with ‘Scottish’ elites paying homage to England’s King and consenting to England’s Imperial Crown’s continued domination over Scotland and the Scots. Colonialism ‘is a co-operative venture’ (Fanon), much as we see.
DasBlimp at 1244pm,
The comment you refer to in the Torygraph, is of course baloney. The treaty was a union, there was no abolition of either Scotland or England as separate countries. A simple example being the continuation of Scots law within Scotland (as stated explicitly within article 19 of the treaty of union) – that simply could not happen if the countries of Scotland or England ‘no longer existed’.
Honestly, it is astonishing the rubbish that English folk say about the treaty of union. Most, if not all have never actually read it.
There was a P*tin press conference a few yrs back where he invited the world’s media.
He was absolutely scathing at who was funding & creating the terrorists, Isis & who was the real threat to world peace.. the yank was squirming in her seat.
He knew exactly who & who was supplying the weapons.
& No one stopped buying the oil lol!
& Who broke int law to destabilise
& Who had their own embassy slaughtered..
The yanks & their poodle are such hypocrites.
An old one but worth a listen.
youtu.be/OQuceU3x2Ww
Alf Baird,
one day, you’ll grow up and realise that the Scots have done a lot more colonising than being colonised.
I’m giving up on links! Lol
Lenny hartley @ 7:38 pm
“so we’re the Picts from the Original Neolithic farmers?”
Very interesting. An oppressed people are largely ‘out of the game’ in terms of their own history which is written by others for them, their language discarded as invalid, their culture an object of ridicule. Such oppression then becomes internalised, then even denied by the oppressed.
As what we now know of as Scotland was once full of Picts we might well have called it Pictland. The name of a nation perhaps matters less when its sovereignty remains elsewhere; in colonialism the nation is in the process of perishing, and clearly our adversaries would rather we didnae exist. Much like the Picts, it seems, an oor ‘invalid’ Scots mither tongue. Yet this is who we are, as you imply.
Why is there a bank of England?
Surely, holding the Unions coffers, that should’ve been renamed to something United Kingdomy to keep in line with this super new State that was created?
When Scotland removes it’s consent there’ll be no UK.
ASA
Another Unionist myth. The clearances were continually
put on boats & straight into slavery.
The Bank of England exists because a Scotsman, William Paterson, invented something called National Debt and created that bank in order to profit from the scam.
The Royal Bank of Scotland was created to distribute money amongst the idiots who fell for his next scam.
The posts on this thread were a quick read!
But only when you scroll past the usual shite posted by Che, Baird, RoS and a new entrant to the nutter fringe-Geri. Thankfully Carlin is conspicuous by his/her/it’s absence.
If only someone could come up with a novel idea for Independence for Scotland. It could help to convince the 75% of the electorate, who have no real interest in politics, other than how it effects them in their pockets.
Wishful thinking it appears. Too many on here simply want to drone on endlessly about their ‘favourite’ subjects. Boring the tits off everybody else.
I often wonder what a ‘soft’ no voter would think if they read the posts, on any article Stu produces. Once visited, never to return I suspect. Who could blame them?
Well done to the LGB alliance.
The trans lobby have failed. They can have their gender ideology captured pride.
Well stick to the LGB thank you.
Big pharma will never make inroads in the UK. Not with the NHS in Scotland. It’s not privatised. Not with public feeling in Scotland.
That’s why this is terf island. People are treated not for profit. But for healthcare.
The LGB alliance, is massive.
Jamie Hepburn and the crazed neo colonialism from Canada of that nut job in the greens.
They will never destroy our values. They will never destroy the NHS and patient care.
Back to Canada with your woke ideology.
Hi Chas.
Your dislike of commenters who are not on your wavelength of ideological acceptance is now becoming boring. Please up your game!
RoS,
Yes, Oman is a dictatorship, but it’s a very rare example of a benign dictatorship.
In the early 1970s I worked there as a Catman, with a team of Battmen. A surprising high proportion of the Battmen were Scotsmen.
The then very new Sultan was entirely benign, unlike his nasty father whom he had recently deposed.
Oman is a lovely place, full of lovely people. There’s actually something quite Scottish about the place. Not at all comparable to neighbouring Audi Sarabia and the ghastly Emirates and the crassness of Qatar.
Chas,
Be honest. You couldn’t give a shiny shit about any novel idea about how to achieve independence. If you did you’d have read the gazillion articles on this site & ignored BTL.
But just incase anyone is wondering…
Call indyref2 or an election on an indy ticket. Simples.
85% showed up last time & George Square was full of young ppl. They also have the vote now along with the 16/17 yr olds who foolishly (their words) voted no last time..
It’s not the ref that’s the problem. It’s the welded in Britnat administration.
Be ready.
Hope that helps..
Lenny Hartley @ 7.38 and Alf Baird @ 8.55
Have you read Uriel’s Machine by Knight and Lomas? It has been criticised, but is a most interesting read, especially concerning Orkney, and casts a new light on the movement of knowledge a long, long time ago.
Robert Louis says:
6 July, 2023 at 8:34 pm
DasBlimp at 1244pm,
Honestly, it is astonishing the rubbish that English folk say about the treaty of union. Most, if not all have never actually read it
====
The author was Scottish.
Geri
‘Call indyref2 or an election on an indy ticket. Simples.’
Is that it?
You may not have noticed but there seems to be a wee problem in calling indyref2. Can you guess what that might be? The SNP will not be calling any election on an indy ticket. Why would they as half of them would be out of a job thereafter.
I think I know who is simples.
Aye, well done LGB alliance.
I hope they continue on & get the trans guff out of our schools next.
John Nicholson (:D) will be inconsolable..
For Alf (8.55 pm)
Please explain any link between the Pictish language and the Scots language. Thank you.
Geri,
most Scots who emigrated became colonists. I’m not that good about working out how many times removed a cousin I am, but my direct ancestor’s younger brother went to America when it was still 13 colonies, and became the Governor of one of the colonies as it became a state after independence. Two other ancestors went to Rangoon and made a huge pile of money from teak and cotton trading back to the U.K. And so too did vast numbers of other Scots. Rapacious “colonisers”.
None of which fits Alf Baird’s rather ridiculous proposition, supported only by the same three names who he keeps quoting. Dullards and uninformed, all of them.
Chas
Who mentioned the SNP?
& England cannot forbid Scotland a referendum. We’re in a voluntary Union – remember?
An internationally recognised treaty that must have exit clauses. It’s the law..
David Hannah,
the NHS is the snake in the tent of all of the countries of the UK. Far from being “the envy of the world”, it has never been emulated by any other advanced country, and is on its way to consuming a completely unaffordable level of national expenditure, all the while delivering ever lower levels of health outcomes per unit of currency invested. We should look around at better health systems in Europe and in the G20. Not the USA’s, which is equally disfunctional. Maybe France, or Germany, Canada, or even Singapore.
And then we should destroy the NHS, and emulate the best systems.
Of course John Nicholson.
A gay man still the closet all these years on, with his new brand of homophobia. If only he accepted who he really is like Nicola Sturgeon.
A shame really.
Nicholson is probably drinking with Owen Jones tonight.
The two of them will fight to the death for the rest of their lives for gender ideology while world moves on.
Alf Baird @8:25pm
“Yesterday was just like old times with ‘Scottish’ elites paying homage to England’s King and consenting to England’s Imperial Crown’s continued domination over Scotland and the Scots. Colonialism ‘is a co-operative venture’ (Fanon), much as we see.”
I watched a wee bit of that ‘coronation’ clown show, Alf. As much as I could bear anyway, which wasn’t much.
The fawning ‘elites’, wha claer thocht thay wir favourt fowk, came across as obedient pets. It wis a gae awfu sicht. No ony o thaim awaur o hou daupit thay Luiked.
Another reason we urgently need independence.
The Scottish NHS.
The NHS is deliberately mishandled & underfunded to push Tory privatisation.
The trouble with *The Union* is we suffer too because not only do we fund ours with pocket money – but ours is dependent on how much England spends on theirs.
When they spend less – Scotland gets less too.
Voted the best health service & system in the world by the commonwealth fund & a typical yoons response is to destroy it ffs!
How about we destroy the Tories first?
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
Check out Alf’s link at 4:50pm..
David,
Yes, he needs to accept who he is & stop hating on women.
‘LGB alliance are obsessed with other ppls genitals’ Remember that tirade?
Umm, how to tell a grown ass man that’s kinda important. No one wants those kinda surprises – It doesn’t tend to end well! Lol!
He’s an idiot & so is Jones. I don’t understand them bending young gay ppls minds onto a path of mutilation. They should go do it themselves.
Most folk and businesses will be well aware of the high energy prices and resultant increased bills. But consider what must be the absolutely massive energy costs to keep an entire hospital running with all the equipment in the various wards and departments.
Found a FOI for NHS Tayside and the combined leccy and gas costs for the 5 years up to 21/22 was 41.5 million quid! Wonder how the significant increases in energy prices this last year will have affected those costs.
Our locally generated renewable energy should mean we aren’t exposed to the global market fluctuations and manipulations that fossil fuel derived power suffers from when things like “wars” occur.
There should be a move to decouple the cost of power generated through cleaner renewable sources from that of fossil fuel derived power.
If we consumers have to pay higher punitive amounts to tax a car based on its higher emissions, then why shouldn’t cleaner generated power derived from renewable sources not have a reduced cost compared to dirty fossil fuel derived power. They are after all completely separate sources of power generation.
The propaganda over the fake coronation is enough to switch off.
Apparently he wasn’t crowned king in Scotland cause the Scottish crown wouldn’t fit Lol!
Not that he’d lose his head if he dared try! He is not the king of Scots.
Jeeez! & Folk claim Russia is bad? Not a patch on the UK Media. Tho we all know it’s for nose rubbing exercise.
Northcode,
that is literally the world’s worst attempt to write in Scots.
Don’t embarrass as yourself. Apart from Rabbie, who got it, nobody at all should be trying to write in Scots. It’s a spoken, not a written, language.
I see wee baroness Kim jun Ruth has been appointed non executive Director at Scottish Rugby.
Why?
She never did a solitary thing for Scotland in her life.
I’ll be supporting Ireland until that parasite is expelled.
An an ingin ain an aw
Chas says:
6 July, 2023 at 9:13 pm
The posts on this thread were a quick read!
—————-
That’s rich.
You bore the tits aff everyone, every time you come on here.
Beat it!
Dear Neil Mackay,
Effluvia is plural, so ‘an effluvia’ makes you sound like an idiot trying to sound educated…wait a minute…what’s that now?…OK…I stand corrected…you weren’t trying to sound educated.
On a different subject, when is your next terrible, unreadable novel coming out?
I see…that is unfortunate…
Do you want ME to set up an edgy publishing company, ladle some down dosh your way and…but just so we’re in agreement…this one ALSO has to be about werewolves. Yes?
OK. Here’s an extra fifty.
Night, night.
Don’t stay out too late. I hear Renfield’s Afoot…
https://m.youtube.com/watchv=yDlFWoqU2_s&pp=ygUPcmVuZmllbGRzIGFmb290
Yay, welcome to NuScotland, if you aren’t an insomniac you soon will be… Even though the gusts of wind and rain is lashing down against the windows I can still hear the fucking air-sourced heatpumps droning away.
Is walking over and putting an axe through the bastard a step too far? Mitigating court defense might be that one was driven to it by the industrial humming the machine emits for hours as you try to get some sleep.
Scotland is currently exporting more leccy than we are using.
https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime
But rather than use some of that silent clean electricity to power electric heaters we have to add some other over engineered and compromised piece of mechanical shit into the mix to screw up what should be the most simple of tasks of heating a home.
*correction.
The UK has fallen to 4th place on the commonwealth fund league table.
It used to be No1 in 2014 but then the Tories happened..
I’ll bet ASA is a Thatcher luvvie who advocated there’d be no free health care for anyone. Yay – a return to the Victorian era where childhood diseases were considered cool!
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh @ 9:58 pm
“Please explain any link between the Pictish language and the Scots language.”
The Picts occupied most of Scotland and in all areas where Scots language speakers existed and developed, much as today. You might be better seeking any cultural linkage between the Picts and the language of the Dalriada Gaels. Is there any?
Merganser, i read it a long time ago but tbh cant remember much about its content, lots of theories abound, what seems to be gaining traction by various archaeologists is that the Celtic Culture/Language is a lot older than 2.5 k years as originally thought with Switzerland and Austria being where it evolved, i guess its possible that the Q Gaelic variant came out of Hallstatt/La Tene and spread to the existing Celtic culture in Ireland via Marriage to a high King for example but the rest of what is now Great Britain and the Islands were speaking the P Celtic, (Picts Included);
There does seem to be evidence that Orkney was very important in Neolithic society and was where the Megaliths originated and the concept spread south.
But i think what is important is that the Celts were not later invaders to the British isles (Inc Ireland) but were the Indigenous population.
I guess what bound the Peoples of the Western Atlantic Seaboard together was the Religion they believed in, and from it the Culture and Language evolved. What made them distinct from the other Neolithic Farmers was that they built the Megaliths, nothing else that I can find , they shared the same common ancestry, perhaps with the climate at the time and the Ice Sheet having left behind some massive stones they took on some significance, no idea but we do know that Stones were important in Celtic Culture ( the stone of destiny for one, the also irish had their own magic stane, and the one in the attached article was looked after by my gt gt gt and gt gt grandfathers, the “King” called Caine in this article is my gt gt grandfather Anthony Keane (Caine) , i have found reference to similar stones wrapped in Flax taken out once a year on the Island of Lewis.
https://atlanticreligion.com/2013/09/01/the-naomhog-of-inishkea/
So perhaps somebody more intelligent than this peasant can figure out where the Celtic beliefs in magic staines came from?
Aye.
Same with broadband, off gas grid, heating oil & good old fashioned hamsters.
They’ve had over 300 yrs at this shit to try get this glorious & successful one nation pish to actually work for everyone! It is reserved after all.
They can’t have the stupid Scots on the internet while cozy & warm tho – we’ll start to get ideas.
Dan – On the subject of ground-sourced heat-pumps; a neighbour of mine in installing a giant log burner, or two actually, working in parallel. Combined they will produce 220kW. The logs they burn are delivered 1m long lengths and the smoke produced is blown down to an empty chamber below, air is blown in, and the smoke burns, turning it into a furnace. It will burn 60t-80t of logs per year. He has one back home in the USA and so he knows what he is talking about. Look them up when you have time. “Central Boilers” – I have never heard of them in my life but I am looking forward to seeing this. It heats 300 gallons of water to 80’C, silently. Hardly any smoke produced either.
@ Gillian Martin MSP
https://www.gov.scot/about/who-runs-government/cabinet-and-ministers/minister-for-energy/
Looks like you may only have taken over this ministerial role and remit earlier this year, but this Scottish Home Energy Loan program for air sourced heatpump and solar PV being funded by loans and subsidies needs looked at as clearly there are major deficiencies in the work being carried out.
Solar PV panels fitted onto a north facing roof in Scotland is absolutely MENTAL as the efficiency of the PV array is so compromised it will struggle to ever generate enough to pay back cost of installation. What sort of companies are carrying out this work if they can’t see the massive flaws in what they are doing, let alone point it out to homeowners.
And homeowners are generally not knowledgeable or informed enough to understand the complexities of all this technical kit so that puts even more onus on the companies surveying and carrying out the work to display due diligence to ensure work is suitable and appropriate.
This is being pushed by greenwashing with little if any genuine scrutiny of the bigger picture. Ripping out few years old state of the art programmable storage heaters that could be simply and quietly powered by the growing abundance of Scottish renewable generated power is bonkers.
I understand rural uplift grants for air source heatpump can be up to 9 grand, Solar PV can be a further 6 grand. There are significant resources and energy required to manufacture and import all this new kit here, and it is only viable due to the large subsidies. It also adds the burden of repair and maintenance onto the property owner. Surely grants up to 15 grand would be better spent by just concentrating on improving a property’s insulation level and installing decent double glazed windows to replace single glazed.
Planning laws also no longer seem applicable if solar PV is being fitted onto the roofs of listed buildings and conservation area properties.
And who will be liable for future claims if it is found that all this work and kit doesn’t operate properly or provide the benefits it was claimed it would.
I would like to say that I support this website, its aims and editor/author.
The vociferoceness of 80% the BTL stuff saying:
give up,
you are useless,
you don’t know nothing about anything,
even if you do,
you’re still wrong;
is profoundly defensive.
Yet their swagger BTL is only bluster.
There are those who want be dependent and those who want to be independent.
The dependence movement here are just stale water splashing off granite.
A Scot Abroad @11:04pm
Nice try, ASA. But I don’t suffer from the ‘cringe’ any more.
And for you to condemn my early attempts at writing in the Scots leid is confirmation that I’m getting it right and making a grand job of it.
So keep your comments coming. The more disparaging they are the better – because then I’ll know for sure I’m on the right track.
Alf Baird says (11.42 pm) –
The Picts occupied most of Scotland and in all areas where Scots language speakers existed and developed, much as today. You might be better seeking any cultural linkage between the Picts and the language of the Dalriada Gaels. Is there any?
————————
Thank you Alf. But there you go yet again reiterating your three non-negotiable claims:
1. Gaelic is foreign.
2. Scots is uniquely indigenous.
3. The Picts validate points 1 and 2.
You never do clarify your 3rd point. Nowhere to my knowledge do you identify any linguistic links whatsoever between the (Germanic) Inglis/Scots language and the (Celtic) Pictish language. Nor do you acknowledge for a moment the very substantial Common Celtic links between Gaelic and Pictish. (And between Pictish and Welsh even more so.).
The Wikipedia entry for Pictish helpfully says:
“Pictish is thought to have influenced the development of modern Scottish Gaelic. This is perhaps most obvious in the contribution of loan words, but, more importantly, Pictish is thought to have influenced the syntax of Scottish Gaelic, which is more similar to Brittonic languages than to Irish.”
You absolutely refuse to acknowledge that the Gaels were the original eponymous “Scots” and that therefore Gaelic is irrefutably the indigenous “Scottish” language.
In the Introduction to THE PENGUIN BOOK OF SCOTTISH VERSE (1970), Tom Scott writes:
“The word ‘Scot’ derives from the Gaelic tribes who overran Ireland before the beginning of the Christian era and were Christianized by the Strathclyde Briton, Patrick, and his associates and successors. The ‘Scots language’ meant Gaelic until Gawin Douglas, acknowledging the dominance of the lowland tongue as the national language in his day, applied it to what had hitherto been known as ‘Inglis’.
In THE MERCAT ANTHOLOGY OF EARLY SCOTTISH LITERATURE 1375-1707, Edited by R.D.S. Jack and P.A.T. Rozendaal, Mercat Press, 1997, we read:
“Was ‘Scottis’ the accepted, homogeneous literary language of Scotland in earlier times? Once the historical dimension to the question is opened up and one looks at origins, it becomes clear that the answers is ‘No’. The dialect known as ‘Scottis’ has no claim to be the original national tongue. In fact, if there were any politico-linguistic ‘treachery’, it was that which resulted in ‘Scottis’ gaining dominance over the native Gaelic.”
I can only conclude therefore that the connection which you persistently yet opaquely infer exists between speakers of the Anglo-Saxon-rooted language now called “Scots” and the Celtic-speaking Picts is not based on language at all but rather on a posited physical continuity, ie “bloodline”. Whether there is such a continuity is entirely immaterial to me and moreover strongly doubted. I overwhelmingly hold that it is cultural/ linguistic transmission or breakdown which is paramount. The conundrum I am left with is that your whole anti-colonial “Mither Tongue” pitch, which clearly recognises the crucial link between language and consciousness, seems at variance with you other “physical-continuity” model (if such it be).
Anyway, I for my part, on the basis of the demonstrable close linkage between language and consciousness (as well explored by Orwell of course), envisage Gaelic as our potential mental “independence,” while Inglis/Scots swithers on a variable scale of mental “devolution”.
Has anyone ever met a happy unionist? I know I haven’t.
They’re always so negative, dour & humourless.
Even when they won the referendum they went ape shit with rage.
I dunno what they hope to achieve by being so belligerent to others BTL here. It’s not like any of us are suddenly going to convert to being a naw voter & go join them whipping ourselves in angst that we never seen the error of our ways sooner.
Remember after indyref they complained they’d drawn the short straw to run a negative campaign LMAO!! Well aye, cause there’s absolutely hee-haw positive about the Union & the fact they could complain was a huge clue even they couldn’t find the silver lining. We already have lived experience. It’s shit & you’ll never make shit look good.
Maybe it’s their conscious? Guilt cause they never really won anything cause all their lies: Devo max, federalism, super strength parly, remaining in the EU, equal partners etc all just turned to horseshit before the count had even finished! They were royally shafted, out the EU, Westminster wasn’t going to be nicer and those extensive new powers we were getting ended up being deducted instead by the bucketfull.
How could they run Better Together part two? That’ll have to be a Beezer..Maybe they let Scots run Westminster for the next 300+ yrs to even it up this shared new state malarkey.
@ Geri at 2.56am: I keep thinking the same as you with regard to unionist trolls: what is the point? What do they hope to achieve? All they are doing with their insults and long-discredited arguments is confirming and reinforcing the reasons why Scotland needs to be independent.
However, unless they have an incredible lack of awareness, I don’t think they seriously believe they’re going to convince us of the wonders of being in the UK. I think the idea is to bore and/or annoy the readership of Wings Over Scotland in order to blunt its impact and drive readers away.
Tempting though it is to argue with the trolls (and I often succumb to that temptation myself), those who say they should be ignored are right. Arguing with them just gives them attention that they don’t deserve. It’s pointless anyway. They just keep spouting the same old insulting, anti-Scottish pish, year after year, regardless of the facts. I have to assume they’re paid to do so, otherwise it would be an exceedingly pointless and disheartening task for them.
We should ignore them altogether. Make them understand that they’re wasting their time.
Geri says:
7 July, 2023 at 2:56 am
Has anyone ever met a happy unionist? I know I haven’t.
They’re always so negative, dour & humourless.
Even when they won the referendum they went ape shit with rage.
Define “won”.
They had to lie through their teeth throughout the campaign via their rancid BBC monopoly, and still had to cheat like fk and break multiple rules to secure a “resounding” victory so tenuous they now shit themselves at the mere prospect of IndyRef 2. What confidence. What courage.
When the likes of Main, or the effervescent Ascot Hat, is your shining example of what it is to be a Unionist, no wonder the rest of them look so glum and depressed, and desperate to change the subject.
And all the time, the search goes on for that ever elusive positive case for the Union…
Well said “ Breeks @0556 am “ Yes indeed “ Better together” “ Won” the rancid unionist propagandist vote .
“ Better together” what a joke with a neverendum of Tory incompetents “ running the country” ( into the ground) . Neverending foodbanks, neverending strikes , neverending food price rises , neverending fuel price hikes , neverending morgage and rent hikes . Neverending purgatory for working class people
Yes indeed Breeks the neverending search goes on for “ the positive case for the union” . Little wonder they don’t ever want a rerun of the 2014 vote . Alex Salmond was correct , we had the sovereignty of Scotland in the “ palm of our hand” on 18-9-2014 . Remember the biggest lie “ if you vote yes then Scotland will be out of the EU / only a No vote ensures your EU citizenship “ Enough said . A vote won on a “ pack of lies”
@Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
I have no knowledge whatsoever of the matters you write about, but one excerpt from the Declaration of Arbroath continues to amuse me:
The Declaration describes how the Scots had “thrown out the Britons and completely destroyed the Picts”
The earliest known unashamed declaration of colonialist oppression and genocide in Scottish history!
It is certainly true that this re-interpretation of ancient history is tricky stuff. Far better for the Indy movement to be focused on what it can do to improve things in the here and now.
@Breeks says:7 July, 2023 at 5:56 am
When the likes of Main, or the effervescent Ascot Hat, is your shining example of what it is to be a Unionist
Breeks going nuclear, deploying the ‘U’ word, which in his mind, flattens the landscape, destroys all life, and leaves not one brick standing upon another.
Soz Breeks, your ultimate weapon is a dud.
I am that rarity on here, a thinking, rational Indy supporter. Thus, I make fun of the thickos, poke the loonies with sticks, and dissect the Student Grant types, because all any of them ever achieve is the dragging of Indy, and the character and competence of us Scots, through the mud.
Why don’t you stick to those other blogs you favour, where the policies of the blog owner mean you won’t ever be exposed to any nasty person pointing out the fallacies of your world view, and the endless pointlessness of your continual slanted re-hashing of ancient history?
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh @ 1:47 am
“Anyway, I .. envisage Gaelic as our potential mental “independence,” while Inglis/Scots swithers on a variable scale of mental “devolution”.”
The key issue facing the people mainly relates to the question of what is their language of liberation and national consciousness/national culture, for withoot the latter there wad be nae independence movement.
This has to be the Scots language as the language aye still spaikit by maist Scots fechtin for oor naition’s leeberation, tho preventit fae lairnin in the schuil, resulting in ‘the torture of colonial bilingualism’ for that group. The Scots language is maist o oor doun-hauden fowk’s ‘rusted tongue’, not Gaelic.
EAST KILBRIDE WEST BY-ELECTION 6TH OF JULY 2023
Ballotbox Scotland reporting;
1st – Labour [40% – 1,386 votes]
2nd – Conservatives [26% – 904 votes]
3rd – SNP [23% – 778 votes]
Northcode @ 10:33 pm
“The fawning ‘elites’, wha claer thocht thay wir favourt fowk, came across as obedient pets.”
Aye, the Scots Croun placed on a cushion nae a kings heid was the obedient privileged native elites giein awa oor fowk’s soveranety on a silver platter tae oor doun-hauder. ACH and aw the unionist establishment on display looked awfu pleased wi thairsels. Thay shuid aw ken thay hiv duin nae guid.
Prof Half Baked says:
as the language aye still spaikit by maist Scots fechtin for oor naition’s leeberation, tho preventit fae lairnin in the schuil, resulting in ‘the torture of colonial bilingualism’ for that group. The Scots language is maist o oor doun-hauden fowk’s ‘rusted tongue’,
====
Are you sure that is not just a transcription of what that policeman says in episodes of ‘Allo ‘Allo?
@Alf Baird says:7 July, 2023 at 8:46 am
maist Scots fechtin for oor naition’s leeberation, tho preventit fae lairnin in the schuil, resulting in ‘the torture of colonial bilingualism’
Most Scots are hardly fighting at all, perhaps a narrow majority would “like” Indy.
Schools are hard pressed to teach kids useful stuff. My view is that a policy of loading them with even more useless stuff would be bitterly opposed. I would rather see kids learn life skills and technical expertise that would benefit an aspirational Independent first-world country. Besides, the best place to learn your “national language” is at your mother’s knee. As Alasdair Maclean observed, a healthy culture breathes air, not the enforced oxygen of intensive care.
Lastly, I’m guessing you’re one of the lucky ones who has never been tortured. If you had, you wouldn’t use the word in such a flippant way.
JOHNMAIN
Getting out in the open people’s ideas of what a Scot and Scottish/Scottishness is, is no bad thing. In fact it is healthy clearing of the cupboards and their many skeletons.
I come from a culture which cannot even find an agreed name for itself or its ancient language but we do not tear ourselves apart over it. We have survived! We KNOW what we are. https://textbook.surayt.com/ even if the world couldn’t give a !!!!!!!!
A cool headed and mature overview of the diverse manifestations of the «Scot» in century 21 would be very useful. Getting teeth into the history of the people of Alba/Scotia/Caledonia should be exhilarating. A journey of discovery for the many.
Irish, Pict, Briton, Northumbrian, Norseman, Norman, French, English etc not bad for a case of diversity.
Based on the crap that Baird and Northcode are posting, the Scots language is nothing more than poorly spelled English.
It’s a spoken language, not written.
“I am that rarity on here, a thinking, rational Indy supporter.”
Thanks Main, the above put a smile on my face, at the very least you have a sense of humour.
You should post one liners like the above everyday, we all need a wee laugh now and then.
Once again thanks.
Blackford up to his old tricks again to try and save his party the NuSNP from being flushed down the plughole at every election, we’ve read this shit from the likes of him and his ilk a million times.
“Ian Blackford, the SNP’s former leader at Westminster, has high hopes for a soon-to-be-published independent report into growing the Scottish economy before and after a Yes vote.
The Ross, Skye, and Lochaber MP commissioned two independent experts – Sir Martin Donnelly and Professor Dominic Houlder – to conduct the research back in February, and it is about to bear fruit.
On Thursday, July 13, the experts’ report will be published at an event in London, and Blackford is confident it will significantly contribute to a route to Scottish independence.”
I remember this, (when I used to buy the National before it became a Sturgeon fanzine) f*ck me, twelve f*ckin years this is what I’m talking about, a foreign country controls who live and who doesn’t live in Scotland no other nation in the world would put up with this shite except the spineless Scots, get a f*ckin grip and dump our larger neighbour for good.
Down with this undemocratic prison of a union.
“AN Australian family living in the Highlands were celebrating last night after they were finally given leave to remain in Scotland – after a 12-year battle with the Home Office.
The story of Gregg and Kathryn Brain and their then two-year-old son Lachlan made worldwide headlines after the Home Office scrapped the post-study work visa the family arrived here with, and tried to apply the new rules retrospectively.
They settled in Dingwall, from where their determination pitted them against more belligerent immigration ministers and home secretaries than many politicians have had to face – among them James Brokenshire, Caroline Nokes, Theresa May and Amber Rudd.”
Those lazily trying to denigrate folk for using different letters to spell words may want to try to critique this article by Alf.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/07/07/the-uks-dysfunctional-private-equity-ownership-and-regulation-model/
North chiel says:
7 July, 2023 at 7:01 am
A vote won on a “ pack of lies”.
Which is precisely why they will never risk agreeing to a referendum again – ever. Ain’t going to happen, folks. Not now, not 10 years from now, not “once in a generation”, not ever.
The yoons and British establishment have completely discredited themselves. They got a horrible fright in 2014 and they just ain’t going to risk this again. Forget the gold standard crap – we desperately need a Plan B.
I don’t know about you folks, but personally I don’t intend voting SNP, just to empower Humza Yousaf to ask pretty please another ten times. Had enough of that nonsense. I now want to hear about a determined Plan B, C, D whatever it takes. Plans that Indy politicians are courageously willing to stand (or fall) by. I’m no longer interested in supporting anything less than determined action.
Republicofscotland @ 9:27 am
“The Ross, Skye, and Lochaber MP commissioned two independent experts – Sir Martin Donnelly and Professor Dominic Houlder – to conduct the research back in February, and it is about to bear fruit.”
Blackford’s bricht mynds should maybe first read up on how the UK private equity model has been destroying the Scottish economy, as outlined here:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/07/07/the-uks-dysfunctional-private-equity-ownership-and-regulation-model/
Luigi.
Speaking of Humza Yousless, there’s been a fair bit of backslapping going on with his first hundred days as FM in mind.
“Humza Yousaf’s Scottish Government has ensured “rapid delivery” on policy in the areas “that matter to people”, his Deputy First Minister has said.
Shona Robison hailed the record of the Scottish First Minister 100 days after he was formally sworn into the top job.
Yousaf is the sixth person to hold the role since devolution, with his appointment coming after the resignation of Nicola Sturgeon sparked a leadership contest within the SNP.
Robison, who previously served as Scottish health secretary and social justice secretary under Sturgeon, was appointed Deputy First Minister and was also given responsibility for the key finance portfolio by Yousaf.”
Alf 9.49am.
Thanks for the link, a good and interesting read well said.
ASCOTABROAD
The language of Lowland Scotland has a literary history Barbour, Henryson, Dunbar, Douglas inter alia. Unfortunately, just as the language was getting into a unique stride and getting its spelling system nativized, thanks to the arrival of the printing press on Scottish soil, the Anglicising effects of the Reformation, the personal union of James VI and finally the political Union took their toll on its further development. Modern «Scots» is an Anglo-Scots dialect variant hence the odd appearance of mixed spelling, vocabulary and styles.
The Scots Dictionaries site has copious examples/copios exemplairis of language from a variety of periods.
A contemporary revival of the written language would need to reuse the «higher» register older forms as the contemporary spoken language has largely degraded to the rustic level. Though that register does have its place, think Grassic Gibbon.
MacDiarmid and Lorimer are notable «modern» experimenters in stretching the capabilities of the language. Language revival is a «scientific» process, linguistics IS a science, involving planning and considerable effort. Chance has nothing to do with it.
As a foreigner of cosmopolitan heritage I find this fascinating.
I hope I do not seem to teach the older and wiser to suck the eggs
I am a tad surprised that nobody on here has as yet commented on the latest appointment to the Scottish Rugby Union Board – Baroness Ruth Davidson of Lundin Links – Ruth the Mooth herself.
Now we all know the SRU and the regular crowd at Murrayfield is choc-a-bloc with Proud Scots But and members of the BPHB, they also used to have another Tory peer, Lord Malcolm Offord of Garvel on the board, although, to be fair, he had a long association with London Scottish RFC.
Somewhat surprisingly, Ruthie’s appointment has not gone down well with the troops. The Offside Line, which is the sort of church magazine of Scottish Rugby, has 14 BTL comments on Ruthie’s appointment, and 12 of these are anit. In addition, one of the two in-favour of her arrival, signs himself ‘A Scot Abroad.’
Could it be our dear friend ASA from this site? If so, hardly an unbiased observer.
Talking to an old school friend, we stupidly strayed into the realm of politics. Aside from agreeing that Sturgeon should be in jail and that the SNP is a shit show, he turns out to still be of the “too wee, too poor, too stupid” variety of Yoon.
That was until I said that surely “too wee, too poor, too stupid” would be a consequence of the disasterous Indy that he is so fervently against, and not the product of the existing Union of which he thinks so highly.
… tumbleweed…
@Republicofscotland says:7 July, 2023 at 9:50 am
Speaking of Humza Yousless, there’s been a fair bit of backslapping going on with his first hundred days as FM in mind
Didn’t he eradicate poverty in Scotland? Fair praise when it’s due and all that.
BTW, glad you had a wee laugh at my expense. Only fair considering all the big laughs I’ve had at your posts over the years.
How’s the overtures to Russtiland coming on? They backing our Indy yet?
I can’t wait to fill my pockets with BRICS!
@ Socrates
Re Ruth n Rugger. You need to keep a better eye on the ball sir! Effijy at 11:15pm last night.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-engines-of-censorship/comment-page-1/#comment-2774437
Dan @ 10.36am
Apologies, that’s after my bed time and I obviously missed it when I scrolled down this morning.
Luigi
Spot on and totally agree.
We have to face the pain off killing off the SNP and moving on if the SNP does not waken up.
There have been a couple of glimmers of hope recently but not enough to convince me they are committed to independence
Meanwhile, Alex Salmond has been sitting on his hands, doing and saying absolutely nothing at all to advance the cause of Indy in the last few months as the SNP implode. Tumbleweed.
He’s not a good politician, he’s not got a vision or strategy, and he’s currently about as successful as Bonnie Prince Charlie.
I think Salvo & Liberation is the way ahead for indy.
Take it completely out of the politicians hands – then they can’t have the whole movement be tainted by association when they disgrace themselves like Sturgeon has & completely fck it up at the last hurdle.
It worked before by getting us to the Council of Europe to be heard.
It’ll work again.
Because as we all know the colonisers work in co-operation with our jailers who seem to be continually bedazzled, sidetracked & mesmerised by fck baubles that serve themselves!
We are also at an immediate disadvantage from the get go by imposed restrictions, reserved matters & trying to fight on a domestic front that will always be rigged. Even if we won an indyref they won’t accept it.
We need to take our case externally to the international community. An independent legal route & judgement on how this archaic Union steeped in colonialism ends legally & with instant international recognition.
I’ll vote for a party that is indy supporting for good governance at Holyrood but it’d be a grave mistake to think they can deliver it through a domestic setting. That ship has sailed imo, so has the referendum bullshit. We must learn lessons & that should definitely be No1. A ref would be rigged anyway. The house would always win.
We bypass the monkey & go straight to the independent organ grinder now. That’s the only route that’ll really make the UK shit themselves because poor we Scotland can’t possibly by the only country in the whole wide world that can’t leave a trading treaty & return to being an independent ancient nation again can it??!
It’d be independently ruled legal & it’d be endorsed from the international community from the get go.
I know Alf is involved. I think the Yes movement really needs to get behind Salvo & Liberation & flood the free media with live talks & meetings.
External pressure is the only route, imo.
We’re not England’s possession & we have proof we never agreed to be.
Alex Salmond needs to get behind it too because *that ancient guff fae 1707* is our route out & where the legalities reside. Alex is a KC, so is Cherry – yet I have to wonder wtf for?! The pish fae 1707 was an appeal to the King uphold Scots sovereignty so why haven’t we heard of their appeals to him? Counselling the errors of his government in denying our mandates? So I don’t have any faith that politicians will advance our cause. They all seem fine star struck in his presence.
Dumbza has even less of a chance lol!!!
The people on here who believe environmental and conservation policies are what stands between us and a prosperous independent Scotland are exactly the people who condemn the indy movement to fail. The 220,000 list votes for the Scottish Green Party (that’s without people like me who wouldn’t vote for them whilst they front with Queer Theory and their marxist version of equality) are likely people who put the environment above constitutional independence. They are also likely quite capable of seeing the achievement of meaningful independence as being possible one step at a time by building alternative – independent – systems in their localities.
“Independence” based on the maximum exploitation of “our” oil reserves (i.e. same energy policy as the Tories) is going nowhere.
AsA @ 12.25
Perhaps the wiliest and canniest politician of his generation (my view) and certainly head and shoulders above any of the current lot, north or south of the border, recalls the old saw about “giving them enough rope to hang themselves”.
Once the current SNP/Green devolved administration deliver their own coup de grace to themselves the road may well be opened up to a joint independence movement to gain momentum and the impetus required to truly mobilise a national movement under a proven political operator.
Alf Baird
My, still early, study of the Scots language and its current place in modern Scotland has led me to share the maximalist stance taken by J. Derrick McClure:
While browsing through the Scottish National Dictionary I have come to favour many of the Scots words described in the “Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue (pre 1700)”.
McClure cites this example to highlight the possible differences between the minimalist and maximalist stances:
*In November 1977, a conference on language planning for Scots was held at Glasgow University. The outcome of this conference was the founding of a Language Planning Committee.
Geri @ 12.31
Just a query, Geri, are you sure Alex Salmond is a KC ? I knew him as an economist and politician, never as an advocate.
Geri,
there’s no way until there’s a referendum with 50%+1 that anybody in the international community will take the Indy movement seriously. You won’t get even a hearing, if there’s no proof that you aren’t just a small group with a grievance.
And you’ll need rather more than ancient guff to make your legal case. The ancient guff was extinguished by the Treaty and Acts of Union.
‘220,000 list votes for the Scottish Green Party’
*Gulps*
There’s 220,000 fckn nonces in Scotland?
Who want juryless trials, orgies in schools, metalised weans, late abortions & deviant sex acts that go wrong deemed *accidental*…
Fk me!
What’s any of the shit to do with the environment besides population control?
The Greens never were indy supporters.
Even during indyref they were a *mibbies aye, mibbies naw – what am I getting?* Power chasers latching onto the winning party cause it was the only sniff they’d ever get.
& their latest polling still confirms they’re not indy supporters.
So I dunno why Dumbza & Sturgeon welded themselves to the absolute shambles of the Greens whose brains only seem to revolve around their genitals & everyone else’s, particularly those of weans.
So that just leaves nonces wanting to advance nonce policies & as I suspected – using the environment as a front. They’re not environmental or they’d at least attempt to do their homework before making an arse of themselves in parliament by admitting they know fck all about their specialist subject..
ASA
A referendum is off the table. That ship has sailed.
We go direct to the ICJ for a legal ruling to end the treaty with immediate effect.
Game over.
Geri,
the ICJ doesn’t have the mandate to hear the matter. Look up it’s jurisdiction.
Geri says ” Alex is a KC”
I can find no record of that being the case…
“Salmond studied economics at the University of St. Andrews and joined the civil service as an assistant economist (1978–80) for the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland before working as an economist (1980–87) for the Royal Bank of Scotland.” (Source – Encyclopaedia Britannica accessed 01/07/23)
Besides which, all this ‘Freeman on the land’ style argument is on the exact same level as that spouted by those who declare themselves sovereign citizens; frequently invoking Magna Carta, The Articles of Confederation etc.etc.etc… Here, we seem to have the ‘Scottified’ version.
Sovereign citizen arguments have no basis in law and have never been successful in any court. – And if you expect the likes of Alex Salmond to roll into town on this wagon; sorry the man isn’t that stupid or non-educated.
Frankly the persistence and dominance of this sort of guff here only serves to discredit the site generally and bolster the view that ‘Wings’ exists to do much the same job that David Icke does!
– That is to say to ensure that any grain of truth is so conflated and mixed with vacuous, childish, unhinged tripe as to be washed away in a tide of nonsense. It’s actually very clear that none of the (various and numerous) individuals involved have passed to much as a solitary ‘Higher’ or HN Unit in Scots law – or any other kind of law for that matter.
– It just serves to arm critics of Wings and its position; makes it all look ridiculous and does the Unionist’s job for them.
Fk all to do with sovereignty if that’s what’s choking in yer craw..
Scotland was an independent country before. It can be again.
A treaty with England did not erase Scotland. Fact.
No country can be forbidden from ever exciting a treaty. It’s ludicrous to even suggest it.
We have a legal judgement on our exit route. The end.
Geri.
Making no distinction between green voters and green politicians is the same as making no distinction between indy voters and indy politicians who supported the TWAW lunacy – as did Labour and LibDem politicians.
I know activists in a representative democracy have to build alliances come election time. You’re still in attack mode, taking your lead from your hero I suspect.
I know everyone can be stupid sometimes so one shouldn’t be too quick to judge others but calling 220,000 voters “nonces” when many might vote for your side on an issue is pretty clear
Folks seem to be focused on authoritarian answers to Scotland’s problems.
The system operates because we all pretend that it is ‘legitimate’
Call their bluff whenever we can.
Remember the census?
They need to be reminded that they are our servants
Get back to basics.
We are born with no encumberances:- So why do we should we move into bonded slavery?
Politicians, lawyers, teachers, old soldiers are just shills.
Look to get organised outwith ‘the system’.
Most people are NPCs
When there are enough of us active. We win.
Privy councillor – same shit, different bauble.
@ A Scot Abroad
For future reference:
‘IT’S’ is not a possessive pronoun – it means ‘IT IS’
Poorly written English. It appears that OCTO standards have slipped somewhat in recent years.
Johnlm
Because they world doesn’t work like that as the last 10 mandates proved.
The treaty of Union needs external independent legal judgement to get the independent legal route out.
Westminster wouldn’t care it was 100% Yes. & Endlessly fighting on a domestic front is entirely pointless.
Our appeal needs to direct to the organ grinders & stop being distracted by the monkies.
It would have instant recognition – no different to the Good Friday Agreement. There are always legal routes out of a contract – especially when that contract has been continually abused & enforced by thieving barstewards.
There’s also nothing *loony* about ending a treaty no longer fit for purpose but look at the yoons get triggered already Lol!!
Geri @ 14.12.
‘Fraid that just as Alex Salmond is not a KC, Joanna Cherry is a KC however not a Privy Councillor.
And, I doubt very much that a Barrister or Advocate who has studied, qualified, practised at law and been elevated to the achievement of King’s Counsel would regard this professional honour as a mere “bauble”.
Geri,
without a referendum result, you won’t have a legal judgement. Because the judge doesn’t know if it’s really the will of the people.
That’s if you can even find a court that’s willing to hear the case. The ICJ won’t.
Do they unionists never have any end to their constant contradictions..
Did chucky just have a wee ceremony in Scotland as a fun day out? No.
Did he come to say hello to the peasants on a dreary day? No.
Did he come to recognise Scots sovereignty, its crown institution & accept Scotland’s crown jewels???? Yes.
So that begs the question who do those jewels belong to & why bother if we’re so unimportant, we’re not sovereign & it wasn’t a requirement?
Answers on a postcard..
The other day before I was called away, I quoted that the treaty of union was made under domestic laws, not international laws,
And that the treaty of union had never been given royal Assent, but just presumed it had vaguely.
Nobody queried where I retrieve that information from which was interesting.
The referenced material came from…. The Law Society of Scotland.
NORTHCODE 12;42
You understand the requirements. A revived language should not just sound different it should look different. It is very basic. Language planning involves orthography, lexis, syntax, grammar, the exaggeration of difference is no threat. All written languages need a unique points of difference.
Scots/Scotis/Scottis needs a modern English-Scots dictionary. The online dictionaries have a rather «archaeological» feel. They are where the beginning begins.
Ukrainian is not Russian, Afrikaans is not Dutch, Azerbaijani is not Turkish, Norwegian is not Danish and Scots or Lallans is not English because the users hold to the principle they are different, and it shows.
“Fk all to do with sovereignty if that’s what’s choking in yer craw..”
Nothing’s ‘sticking in my craw’; except as a dyed in the wool ‘small n’ Scottish nationalist; i.e. the genuine article I’m ired of, no actually; bored with rational debate being overwhelmed and lost among non-educated, infantile drivel…
You can end as many sentences with “Fact.” as you like – doesn’t make it so as far as the people who actually hold the reigns are concerned; doesn’t change the realities of the here and now. It’s the textual equivalent of a toddler stamping its foot.
As I suggested – it’s the same line of logic used in FOTL woo. …and it suits those who do hold those reigns just fine to see the ignorant and the rudderless paddling round dementedly in ever-decreasing circles.
“Politicians, lawyers, teachers, old soldiers are just shills.”
I can only assume from that comment it comes from someone with no learning to their name; i.e. no trade or profession or learning beyond being able to work out if their winnings at the bookies are right? Somebody who has never been anywhere beyond the package holiday or achived much?
…Or in other words; what you’re punching out at is anybody who isn’t a part of the non-educated ‘ingroup’; anyone who isn’t part of the ignoratti. – a great unwashed made and kept that way by exactly the forces they claim to oppose.
“Look to get organised outwith ‘the system’.
Most people are NPCs
When there are enough of us active. We win.”
NPCs? Non-Playing characters? What the New York Times describes as “the Pro-Trump Internet’s New Favorite Insult?”
NPCs – In some primary-school level game you ‘think’ (because your head’s fu’ o’ wee chocolate motors; an’ they’re aw’ meltin’) you’re playing? In essence exactly the ‘SovCit’ argument that fails at every turn… Risible.
Infantile rubbish… which only empowers those who punch down. …And is exactly what empowers those who the likes of you claim to oppose; – to point and laugh at this (and other) pro-indepenance sites at just the havering of empty-headed fools.
…Nose-stuck-to-a-phone Candy-Crushed morons!
It is a bauble.
What purpose does it serve any of them?
They’d have been of more use training as a constitutional lawyer if there was any actual worth to that office. Advising the man child on constitutional matters & legalities of the Acts of Union from a Scottish viewpoint other than the endless procession of wankers we seem to have defending the English perspective that isn’t even fecking legal under international law.
The English court of English baubled lawyers, find in England’s favour despite international law to the contrary!
Fk me! You’d think marking yer own homework would be a massive red flag to everyone by now..
Apparently not to the yoons..
Over one hundred years ago a few guys took over a postoffice in Dublin. It was not a popular act, however, the consequences challenged an empire and set in train its dismemberment.
Surely Scotland can manage a wee gesture of the kind.
The referenced material came from…. The Law Society of Scotland.
Aye James… and maybe if you’d studied the basics of Scots Law at about secondary-school level or above; you’d begin to understand why it stands.
Tell me James; exactly what professional and/or educational level did you reach in the real world? – What qualifications, what learning do you actually have?
Evade the question and we have to assume none.
Geri @2.24
Hope you’re right.
But a hae ma doots
Start planning a new tack
Oneliner,
that’s why I hate autocorrect. It’s (it is) almost always wrong.
James Che,
the reason that the treaty of Union has never been given royal assent is because it doesn’t need royal assent.
Don’t try to overthink things. Start with the obvious. 97% of the time, that’s the correct answer.
ASCOTABROAD
«the will of the people», if only someone could devise a device to accurately measure that variable.
No need for a referendum.
Documented proof of the decades long denial of our democracy & the decades long theft of our resources will suffice.
Every treaty has an exit routes.
Their job is to recognise it.
Scotland can then declare it’s independence. Just as other independent nations did.
It’s had an international legal ruling.
It’d be up to the unionists living in Scotland to overturn a Nations statehood.
Good luck with that one..
They’ll be begging for a ref by that point..
Too late. Game over. Do not collect a king on the way out.
Matt Quinn
Rather than use 100 words (as you do), I preferred to use the abbreviation NPC.
I assume from your reaction that you must be a politician, a lawyer, a teacher, or an old soldier.
A Scot Abroad @ 9.17 am says “Scots is a spoken language, not written”.
ASA obviously does not own (or read) any books in Scots. I would recommen that he reads “Ane Satyre of The Thrie Estates” by Sir David Lyndsay of the Mount. This play is periodically performed at the Edinburgh Festival. Sir David Lyndsay (1486-1555) wrote all his great works before Sir William Shakespeare was born!
If he finds the works of Sir David Lyndsay too taxing for his intellect, then perhaps he should get hold of a copy of Robert Burns poetry, which is read and enjoyed worldwide.
If course, ASA does not believe these books even exist!!
Matt Quinn
No one needs to be Einstein. Basic common sense will do.
Treaties end all the time.
Treaties must have an exit clause under international law.
Two countries who never, ever became one nation but who have separate crown institutions can end a trading treaty whenever they please.
Try turning up to a divorce court & demand yer wife doesn’t leave on the basis she promised to remain with you until death at some point in the distant past – see how far you get trying to drag her home as a possession of yours with the law still on yer side.
Same rules apply. It’s a divorce.
Every day this place gets more mental. We’ve got James Che grappling badly to fail to understand the laws, Geri failing to understand how international jurisprudence works and assuming that whatever she declares will just be accepted without any democratic input, and now Ottomanboi trying to advocate armed insurrection.
Tell you what, Ottomanboi, that one will have been flagged up in Cheltenham. Automatically. A human will now be looking at it, your IP and where you are, who you are, and opening a file on you.
@Geri says:7 July, 2023 at 1:21 pm
I dunno why Dumbza & Sturgeon welded themselves to the absolute shambles of the Greens
Woohoo, a true post from Geri!
Cos indubitably, you dunno.
Johnlm says: 7 July, 2023 at 3:14 pm
Matt Quinn
Rather than use 100 words (as you do), I preferred to use the abbreviation NPC.
Yes, I see; you preferred to use a reference which has its roots in bairn’s wee computer games – assuming everyone else is equally infantilised. …That’s your (frankly risible) frame of reference; wee kiddie’s games.
It’s also something you share with Trumpians; I suspect for many of the same reasons.
It’s unfortunate that ‘100 words’ (356 actually) challenged you so much; but again this speaks volumes about you. Your resentment of people who have actually ‘walked the walk’, learned things and done things with their life etc… The reason you resent ‘Teachers’ is that you failed to learn; and have come to fear those that did – because they might make a difference where you are powerless.
What can be deduced from that is you probably have no trade or profession to your name; and are simply projecting your fears and resentment of those who do.
Who or what is it you imagine you’re going to organise “outwith ‘the system’”?
Some shower of knuckle-draggers who will drive around the streets on fake number plates with no insurance until the Polis take your banger off you? – Or maybe some blue-faced eijits waving potato-cam mobile phones winding up minimum wage security guards outside Tescos to put on YouTube (or should that be Ya-Choob?)
Maybe you’ve got your own little army?
And no ‘genius’; I’m none of the things you in your Candy-Crushed ignorance assume I am! As I said, it’s people like YOU (and severl others here) that keep the Unionists safe in the knowledge they’re under no credible or serious danger of being ousted.
Johnlm
It’s all they’d recognise.
We’ve exhausted the election route & the WM pretendy sec30 in a parliament who has 533 seats against.
& The only way the UK will be forced out from hiding from behind the constant loop of *ye cannie – coz I said so*
Neale Hanvey has challenged WM on a legal exit. That’s another nail in the UKs coffin when it’s no doubt rejected & a cert to be just more debate than of any substance.
They’d have to challenge exactly why we’re forbidden from an exit route & the legalities of exactly where it is written we agreed to become one nation with our resources spaffed only to favour England to the international court of justice.
Geri,
nowhere in the Acts of Union is there any single sentence or paragraph allowing for the dissolution of the Union by either England or Scotland.
Every Scot is free as a bird to speak and/or write in any way she/he thinks fit.
As for these people who believe; 1) that any Scots child can identify as a cat and demand that all pupils and teachers respect and conform; 2) that any Scots child speaking Scots will be disciplined and sanctioned; what can I say?
Cognitive dissonance big enough to be seen from orbit.
If only these bastarding English would really give us something to gripe about, we would be like 404-ians, enthusiastically extirpating the Russti language and culture from our midst.
But, naw, they’re too smart to give us the spur we need.
So instead, the usual suspects on here eternally and interminably attempt to manufacture or re-hash grudges and grievances that effectively amount to SFA.
While the rest of us sane, rational Scots look on with amused bemusement and ask ourselves “Fit they roasters oan?”
Matt Quinn
Nice ad hom
Have you any political point to make?
I’m assuming that you are a teacher, a bit thick, but just educated enough to know that what they are doing is shameful.
BTW what is ‘a Scottish nationalist with a small n’ – a yoon???
Ffs! Now ASA is a member of the Gestapo!
Stop. My sides are killing me! No surprise.
A historical fact is now a terrorist threat!? Lolz!!!
Meethinks their time would be better spent hunting down the 220,000 nonces in Scotland who’ll be guaranteed to have *networks* they frequent.
*Waves to the spad in Cheltenham* lol!!!!
What’s in Cheltenham then? Operation triggered?
Doubts have been expressed as to wether the union agreement ever had Status of a Treaty in the same sense in which that expression is used in international Law and, if so, wether it can be said to have retained that status once the union took effect.
Professor Sir Thomas Smith QC, has been perhaps the leading contributor to this debate. Although he himself was the first to acknowledge his debt to one of the most distinguished Constitutional lawyers of his generation, professor J D B Mitchell of the University of Edinburgh,
Although the Articles of the Union agreed between the Commissioners could not be regarded, the exchanged Acts of the Two parliaments did constitute a Treaty “Jure Gentium” between Scotland and England, But, as the Law of the Nations in international is concerned only with “STATES”.
And the kingdoms of Scotland and England CEASED to EXIST on May 1st 1707.
The Treaty became Executed or Spent Treaty on that date, as (by) the merger the Obligants under the Treaty had ceased to Exist,
He referred in support of this view to Sir Hersch Laterpacht’s observation in Oppiniems Peace 8th edition, pp, 155-156: ” Person when it ceases to Exist”
By Voluntary merging into another STATE, A State loses all its independence and becomes a mere part of another,
Lord Murrey has suggested that, upon closer analysis, the mutual incorporation of England and Scotland into Great Britain is not legally complete;
The Anglo -Scottish Union, cit, Supra, He refers to the recognition in Article XV111 that separate after the Union except as altered by the new Parliament-A process which clearly remains far from complete today and following the devolution arrangements seem unlikely ever to be completedand to the preservation of the Scottish Judicial System by Article X1X.
But there is little support among the modern Commentators for the view that the union agreement continues to have effect as a Treaty in international law,
And Mr Keen, QC, for Lord Gray did not seek to develop an argument along those lines, As professor Mitchell pointed out, for the purpose of law, it is the Acts which must be looked at:
Constitutional Law ( 2nd addition 1968) p, 92,
Mr Keens argument was based on the alternate proposition that, although the treaty was spent, when England and Scotland Ceased to exist as separate States upon their merger into a new State of GB, the union agreement continues to have effect as fundamental law in the new State with the result that, in regard to certain provisions which are entrenched by the Agreement, the united Kingdom parliament does not enjoy unlimited Sovereignty,
To be continued.
Really?
Because before the Acts of Union came into effect there was the non negotiable terms to those acts even being agreed.
One of them being Scotland did not give up it’s territory, it’s laws, or its institutions. Far from it.
Or its vast wealth & sea boundaries.
It was a trading Union. No more glorified than the EU & trading unions can end.
Geri says:7 July, 2023 at 3:20 pm
Matt Quinn
No one needs to be Einstein. Basic common sense will do.
Nobody said they do; that’s a strawman argument – as is the paradigm you attempt to present.
I’ve made the point that even an elementary education (such as they might provide at Secondary school or on a basic vocational course) in Scots law will provide an understanding of the relevant structures…
I’ve no intention of ‘turning up at a divorce court’ nor is it likely my wife will… and for the record she’s no more ‘my possession’ than I am hers! – What a weird concept!
However if (hypothetically) a couple were to treaty to become a union by becoming engaged, and later act to make that legally binding; it would indeed require the due process of a lawful court to break that bond; even if the requirement were for annulment on the basis of some technicality.
Simply arguing that you don’t recognise the court and that the Priest was a Space Alien doesn’t cut it.
As I say… what this all boils down to is ignorant rattling; on a par (and similar in structure to) FOTL woo.
…Funny how there is no-one with any sort of credible legal qualification or training pushing this tripe. – As I say; all it does it provide those who want to laugh and point at the case for independence with ammunition!
Geri, if you don’t know what happens in Cheltenham, you haven’t been paying attention.
4:01 was to ASA, the undercover Gestapo member..
Again, no need to be Einstein to recognise that if we never relinquished our territory, our seas, our crown institutions, our rights, our parliamentarians & our laws to this spanking brand new one nation state then it must’ve simply been a trading agreement that the English have fiddled without our express permission.
How do I know this? Again, no need to be Einstein, because the Scots sovereignty lay with the ppl, the community of the realm & with that came no single person to give it over because it simply didn’t belong to them to give it away.
A bit like the sovereignty of the Vatican – it is not *owned* by a pope because it’s not his to give up.
ASCOTABROAD
Chelthenham…!!!!!. Should i be scared. My childhood, in Iraq, was more scary than you could ever imagine thanks to Bush, Blair and the forces of «liberation».
Nothing could frighten me now.
Matt Quinn
Who says it’s legally binding? It was against international law.
Again, do try to to stop defending *English lawyers on an English shilling* presenting & correcting their own homework as some sort of gospel truth. It isn’t.
You don’t need to be a NASA scientist to know that every treaty has exit clauses & one must be provided.
It’s you that’s of the *Charlie says…* school of thought. Without a single shred of international, independent proof.
& That’s why we’ll be seeking one from an independent external source.
The Good Friday agreement had a team of expert international lawyers all over it to draw it up.
Scotland needs to instruct the same.
There is no such thing as anything being eternal.
A Scot Abroad, 6 July @ 11:04 pm:
Scots [is] a spoken, not a written, language.
Your comment is fatuous, meaningless and half-witted. From around 100,000 BC, when humans first learned to speak, until 3,500 BC, when writing was invented, no languages were ‘written’. Being ‘unwritten’ is not a property of a language, it just means that people are not writing it. Scots was written right through the nineteenth century and beyond by such figures as J J Bell, Robert Burns, Robert Fergusson, James Hogg, Hugh MacDiarmid, Allan Ramsay, Walter Scott, Irvine Welsh. That doesn’t sound as though it was ‘unwritten’.
Scots was then demolished among the Scottish educated classes by attacks from the English establishment. Hector Macdonald, the son of a crofter who got himself a career and an education by joining the British army, boasted: “The best way to kill a nation is to kill the language. In Scotland, we succeeded in doing that.” He was later found in a railway carriage with four naked Indian boys, and blew his brains out to preserve the army from scandal. A fitting end for a bad man.
If you speak with a Scottish accent, A Scot Abroad, you’d better not let the English demolish that as well. Because if they do, then nobody will be a Scot.
Johnlm says:7 July, 2023 at 3:53 pm Matt Quinn
“Nice ad hom”
Not at all… merely a counter to your pitiful</i) attack on various groups of people who you obviously feel intimidated by; obviously due to your own failure to match their level of achievement.
“Have you any political point to make?”
As I’m not (in any sense of the word) a politician; why should I? I merely draw attention to the fact that people like you draw any cogent argument for independence into the gutter; thereby assuring it is easily dismissed.
“I’m assuming that you are a teacher, a bit thick, but just educated enough to know that what they are doing is shameful.”
You do seem to assume much; which really rather evidences the Dunning-Kruger effect in action rather than anything else. – To become a “Teacher” – as in someone who Teaches children in a school – requires a relatively high level of educational attainment; about seven years of Higher Education all up.
Is this something you can match? If you cannot; then I suggest you apply the term “thick” elsewhere; for instance the individual you see in the mirror. Again… I have to repeat, as the penny is slow in dropping. I’m not a teacher, nor any of the other things on your sad little ‘hit list’.
“BTW what is ‘a Scottish nationalist with a small n’ – a yoon???
I’m so sorry for challenging your limited educational level again: – Had you listened to your teachers (assuming you went to school that is) you might know that a “Scottish Nationalist” (with both words capitalised) is a supporter or more member of the Scottish National Party – the SNP. I’m not one of those but a person who is both Scottish (as in born, bred and lived most of my life here) and a nationalist that is to say a person who is of the opinion that Scotland ought to be an independent country outside the UK.
For clarity; whilst I was and SNP voter up until about a dozen years ago; I began to see them for the corrupted and dishonest group they are – and thus dropped my support for them but not for independence.
…That you think it ‘shameful’ I should expose how that aim is damaged by dragging the rhetoric down to F.O.T.L. woo again says more about you that it does about me. The only real question is whether you (and your like) are a Unionist ‘plant’ sent here to drag the debate in that direction?
Now… should you not be back with your nose stuck in your phone looking for wee pink virtual sweeties or something?
Continued,
Professors Smiths Commentary on the Laws of Scotland,
“First, they constituted a Treaty in international Law between two Sovereign States,-the Treaty being concluded not by the parliaments, which did not excercise the prorogative treaty-making powers, but by Anne, Queen of England and of Scots,
The Treaty however was executed on May 1st 1707 and can no longer be invoked qua treaty,
Secondly, the respective parliaments operated as ordinary legislation binding the subjects within the jurisdiction for which these parliaments could compently legislate,
Thirdly,The union agreement took the effect as a skeletal, but nonetheless Fundamental written Constitution for the new kingdom of GB when it came into being,
IT is the third proposition in this analysis that is Controversial,
The Union with Scotland (Act) amended in 1707, which abolished the Scottish Privy Council.
The Scottish representatives peers Act 1707 and the representatives peers Scotland Act of 1847 and 1851,
There was legislation with the representation of the people (Scotland) Act 1832,
Then there was the proversuary Oaths Acts of 1868 and 1871,
And lastly and for present purposes the most important, there was the peerage Act 1963, The Statue Law Revision ( Scotland ) 1964 and the Statue law Repeals Act 1993 Section 4, peerage Act 1963;
” the holder of a peerage of Scotland shall have the same right to receive writs of Summons to attend the House of lords and to sit and vote in that House as UK.
Electing Scottish peers will cease tohave effect.
It is Discriminatory for Scotland under a devolved sub government and under the representation of the people, compared with Westminster representing England and Wales under the Treaty of the union.
For it regards one class of people Not equal to the other.
Geri,
in 1707, Scotland didn’t have vast wealth or any recognised sea boundaries. Its Lords brought it begging into the Union, because they were about to go bust.
Nothing you prattle on about has any legal validity. As others point out, not just me.
Perhaps you should try looking at things from a factual perspective, not whatever little fancy you cook up in your head.
It is worth remembering that England wasn’t very fastidious with its treaties.
In 1770 (63 years after taking over Scotland) Captain Cooke reached New South Wales.
Seeing a bunch of native peoples with no permanent settlements, it was decided not to bother with any paperwork.
It has been a headache for Australia to this day as the indigenous Australians are outside the law.
Matt Quinn
You are gaslighting. A well worn trait used by unionists to belittle.
What’s funny, loopy, off yer rocker, stupid, insane or batty about presenting an international court of justice, with the international community, rule on a lawful exit to a treaty?
Sounds perfectly sane to me.
We already know we can or they would have forbidden us from ever having a referendum in the first place.
They didn’t because they can’t.
The European Council recognised they couldn’t & why Blair was forced to give a pretendy parliament which we should never have accepted.
& Why that now needs to be recognised internationally by a ruling on our exit.
As in many instances here we see the Treaty of union being divvied up in favour of representation to wards Westminster and Englands+ Wales voters as a majority, having had our voting burgh’s in Scotland reduced considerably. Scottish peers removed as our representation to become UK peers against the promises of the treaty articles.
But here another issue arises in the Statements from politicians and professors regarding that both “kingdoms states of Scotland and England ceasing to exist prior and in lieu” of a promised treaty,
When both kingdom States ceased to exist in anticipation of a “lieu new State of union” so did their obligations and agreements that they had passed under domestic legislation of those kingdom states.
(The new State of GB waiting in Lieu) cannot become a automatic inheritor of any prior ceased promised States kingdoms.
The GB parliament stands alone in ceasing assets of two previous kingdom States without holding a Treaty with either.
Matt Quinn
‘of the opinion that Scotland ought to be an independent country outside the UK.’
You could’ve fooled me, not.
A supposed indy supporter would welcome a final international ruling on our exit – not try to rip the piss out of ppl who suggest it.
You have all the contradictions of a Unionist.
Examples:
*The Act of Union is boring irrelevant pish – I’m bored!*
Then 5 minutes later….
*The Act of Union says…*
Behave & make yer mind up.
The Act of Union is a treaty. It’s still a live document. It’s what the unionists wish to be gospel truth for eternity..
Then let’s test that theory in an international court. Simple.
Matt Quinn
Cheer up.
Life is a hoot!
I suspect that I am older than you – I remember when Elton John was bald – because I had to look up candy crush and FOTL.
Nonetheless, I expect Indy within the next few years, wether Scotland votes for it or not, as the economy collapses.
See you on the great day.
Geri… this has become like playing chess with the proverbial Pigeon.
Strawman argument indicates only intellectual weakness. I’m providing no defence for “English Lawyers” – in fact I’m not getting into the debate because it’s counter-productive woo.
In the real world things need to be dealt with in real-world terms. The ever obsessive James quoting abstract technical debate between lawyers about things that happened hundreds of years ago doesn’t change or progress anything. – It definitely doesn’t make him look ‘well read’ or ‘clever’; simply a man who has at some time in his life overdosed on ‘Rumpole’.
Every effing BTL thread is infested by his with his ‘1707-this and treaty-that’… It’s been noted by others that (possibly) most people reading comments just skim them; and that’s down not just to the incoherent way the site is constructed.Then we have unionists wading in – not to make any coherent point – but to wind up the loons! …and boy; don’t they oblige! ‘Kin halfwits with IQs not in double-figures who seem to think they’re living in a computer game and all they have to do is ‘organise’ the knuckle-draggers.
…It’s no wonder the SNP drones are pissing themselves, the Greens see wings an a regular source of saleable outrage and the Rupert pop in regularly for a spot of ragging before Pimms!
“ Geri @ 0356 pm “ re Cheltenham Geri it’s usually the Irish that dominate there . They seem to be rather good at getting “ one over” the English in that part of the world . “ Neh bother”!
If you base your case on the illegitimacy of the Act of Union, you will have a hell of hard time proving the various actions that caused Scotland to come together were kosher either.
Geri at the forefront of the ridiculous attempts to paint all greens – including the voters – as perverts, crackpots, stupid. The reason is simple, the oil industry want that oil and will tell any lies or batter any opposition to get it. The oil pumping shills on here pretend to be working-class heroes, with eradicating poverty their goal. The truth is they are supporting an economy that will increase it
Previous attempt to reply directly to Geri (probably unwise) went into moderation. Maybe I fluffed the credentials, I’d hate to think criticism of the oil industry was now out of bounds here.
ASCOTABROAD
The aristos put their money on a scheme that went bust and in order to get their money back they sold their country under the noses of its citizens. The country itself was trading and far from broke.
Anyway, the beginning of being a true Brit.
Can I smell the stench of corruption from here?
Or is it just the noxious vapours of the fusty, foetid British establishment?
Geri says:7 July, 2023 at 4:54 pm
“Matt Quinn
You are gaslighting. A well worn trait used by unionists to belittle.”
No I’m not… that’s a particularly pathetic, nay weak, lie; you simply have no legitimate counter to the points I have made; and in that weakness are running for the nearest cover. You lot don’t need me to ‘belittle’; you’re making big enough fools of yourselves (and the nationalist case) with no assistance whatsoever!
If you can be bothered find the original Business For Scotland declaration from before the referendum you’ll find my name right above Michelle Thompson’s… been a nationalist all my life. So your you know what orifice you can shove your cheap tawdry and utterly-dishonest accusation up (move your head sideways to make room)
– You are quite literally talking bollocks! (look up the proper meaning of the word!)
DO you SERIOUSLY think you advance the case for independence by conducting yourselves like a shower educationally-challenged schoolchildren? …Constantly spouting FOTL-style rubbish. …Rhetorical question of course; as I say, it’s like playing chess with an effin’ Pigeon!
No straw man argument from me.
You seemed to have been triggered at my suggestion to go to the ICJ for a ruling on our exit..
You then proceeded to know what my qualifications were, that Salmond wasn’t a KC, then something about aliens & candy crush and those bastions of knowledge, the Scottish Greens, (LMFAO!!!) will be laughing at me btl cause didn’t I know that there is no escape from the union.
That’s probably why you can claim to be indy, knowing it’ll never happen as long as it remains a domestic matter on loop.
Get a grip ya eejit & stop conning yerself..
So the SNP submits its accounts to the Electoral Commission just in time. Can’t wait to see what they say. The amount paid to the auditors will be interesting, also the entries relating to cash donations, and where money has gone.
To quote a well-known Wings contributor: “Show us the money”.
fruitella the hun
The oil industry needs to wait until Scotland is in a position to move away from oil.
We need to be independent.
We need to have control over licences.
We need to use those funds to transition away.
The Greens want to stop everything dead. What? Like Thatcher did with the miners that devastated whole communities that they still haven’t recovered from.
The trouble with the Greens is they just say what enters their head with very little homework on how they arrived to their conclusions. We see it daily in Holyrood & a trail of failed policies. They seem on the ball tho organising & passing deviant shit no one has voted for tho…
AsA
Your english doctrinated history lesson have left you so ignorant of actual history regarding both sides of history of Scotland and England.
You parrot fashion a one sided events so repetively.
The poverty you state is of the elite status, and it was those that got paid to sell Scotland, A Sovereign country that did not belong to them, they held no deeds of property of the Country of Scotland,
Perhaps you were not taught this in your British education system,
The parliament of Scotland was not Sovereign and the Monarch of Scots did not own Scotland the territory,
If Reality was to become educational as a history lesson, you will find that the only Scots with the land held by records sold in Scotland in 1707 was the land that the signituries to the treaty held at that time.
Ie) Lorc Seafields land, Duke of Argyll’s land, etc, and of course providing they had evidence of buyers deeds in 1707,
For those who’s names were signed on the treaty of union from Scotland were the sole entrants to a treaty with England.
The rest of Scotland and its people said a big NO to a treaty, and partitioned NO from all over Scotland.
Scots have yet to be asked if they want to join a political treaty of union with Westminster.parliament.
So the only and sole individual persons that signed the treaty of union are the only and sole individuals in the treaty of union,
Westminster parliament decided not even to ask the rest of Scotland if they wanted to be in a treaty with England as they presumed We would say NO in advance,
You will find that information on UK Westminster parliament Site 2023.
Like I had said many time Scots have been hoodwinked into thinking they are in this fallacious treaty of Union , not on one level, but on many levels. With much deceit.
Johnlm says:7 July, 2023 at 5:12 pm
“I suspect that I am older than you – I remember when Elton John was bald – because I had to look up candy crush and FOTL.”
And yet you were the one referencing a term beloved of Trumpians which comes from a bairn’s computer game! You suspect and assume a lot; it’s not good for you.
If you’re older than me I assume that revolutionary force you were thinking of organising will all require charging points for their mobility scooters come the glorious day… for the record, I remember when Elton John wasn’t bald yet! – You don’t seriously think the Ruperts are going to let theireconomy collapse do you?
– The Greens will be delighted with you; they and their mates are set to make a fortune from all that Rare Earth mining and upgrading of the tail-end of the grid; should make the Edinburgh Trams fiasco look like some weans making sandcastles!
Power to the people! (direct Debit only; terms and conditions apply)
James Che @ 4:45 pm
“it regards one class of people Not equal to the other”
Seems a good definition of a colonial society, a feature of which is the unequal group are deprived of their language which is considered ‘invalid’ by the dominant group.
Geri,
you still haven’t registered that the ICJ would have no jurisdiction in a matter of Scots Indy. You keep repeating the same crap.
In the same way that you kept repeating the same crap about renewables being sold to fund iScotland.
It’s as though you are seriously fucking deluded, and just repeat the crap you read online without putting any original thought into things.
A typical Indy supporter, then.
Matt Quinn
I’ll keep it simple.
What is *educationally-challenged* about seeking an international ruling on our exit?
Wow the unionists are fair panicking the shock troops are getting arsey and resorting to insults, Matt quinn dispensing insults like a machine gun denigrating any semblance of rational interaction , I have very seldom read such condescending self important drivel from one contributor to another, one person springs to mind who had the same insulting demeanour and disgust when he replied to other commentors and he is not missed
So Mr Quinn or whoever you are your ignorance is exposed respect is earned and you don’t have any
ASA
Away you & polish yer boots or something. Or go get a good rogering by a squaddie while listening to yer gammy radio for terrorists to report..lol
It thinks it’s Lugs fae still game..
Matt Quin.
The debate was not restricted to obsurity,
The debate quoted, were member of Westminster Parliament,
Not just Scotlands point of view,
It is not beyond understanding here in Scotland to see that union minded people are very selective in regards the limited history that is required in needs to justify a a union treaty which created GB while explaining to Scots old history does not count as history.
Perhaps some of the union minded people could explain the difference between word “history” and their interpretation of “selective history” for requirement of of holding a Colony.
Ottomanboi @7th July 2:46pm
“Scots/Scotis/Scottis needs a modern English-Scots dictionary. The online dictionaries have a rather «archaeological» feel. They are where the beginning begins.”
Yes, we have to begin somewhere, and the online dictionaries, in combination with the rich literary history of Scots, would seem, at least to a layman such as myself, a reasonable place to start off from.
Aside from the independence argument Scots is an interesting study in its own right, as are all languages. And I’m sure there are highly qualified scholars working on the best way to reintroduce Scots to the general population.
Again, from my layman’s viewpoint, it would appear that the development of Scots, or Lallans, stalled some 300 years or more ago – and that means it has three centuries worth of human development, and thinking, to catch up on.
Although, as Derek Rogers @4:35pm highlights, written Scots has been kept alive, albeit mostly in the literary sphere, and is still alive:
It has become clearer to me that to spare the Scots language from the charge of being merely a subordinate dialect of English, its appearance in written form must be substantially different from that of written standard English.
Also, I wouldn’t mind the reintroduction of many of the words in the dictionary of older Scots (pre 1700) back into mainstream written and spoken use – so many fantastically expressive words. It seems wasteful to leave them languishing in fusty obscurity.
Matt Quinn
FOTL dig? Pigeons playing chess dogwhistle? Trumpian slur? Pretend Indy supporter?
Sounds like you are a Greenie.
I surrender
Please stop
@ fruitella
I think there needs to be a bit more nuance in discussion rather than trying to polarise folk as being either pro or against continued oil / gas extraction.
There are some folk that want to taper off and reduce the reliance and use of fossil fuel derived fuels, and realists know that will take time to make the numerous necessary adjustments.
There is just no way society as we know it could continue to function if an immediate stop to oil / gas production was put in place now. It isn’t just fuel but plastics and other chemical industry products that fossil fuels are used for as I am sure you know.
Stuff like international trade would be significantly impacted if we stop ships using bunker fuel.
Not all green voters are actually truly green, many seem to just vote that way out of virtue signalling or guilt, thinking that “feel good right on” vote choice somehow cancels out their own far from green lifestyle choices, like taking that flight, or chomping out of season imported food, or not being arsed to even recycle their own waste properly.
You’ll no doubt have seen my various posts highlighting this greenwashing bullshit being rolled out, but I notice very few actually offer any support or question what I am posting.
And I don’t see all these young green activists lobbying to get themselves back into the fields to pick the veg our society eats, and thus stopping the burning of fossil fuels like the 1100 litres of diesel a day being burnt by those fancy new tattie harvester machines.
Likewise it is a rare thing spotting a middle class green voter pushing for their own young children to go and pick berries to harvest a local seasonal food crop whilst also instilling a work ethic and respect for the ecosystem that sustains them in their young developing minds.
My internet has been dropping out all week so no guarantee I can post this or respond in a timely manner.
Merganser
The keystone cops taking so long will have given the fraudsters plenty of time to cook the books for everything to come up just dandy with some change to spare & £600K was just hiding in another account all along.
All credit to the Scottish rugby union today for trimming down the family budget. As someone who used to watch the national team in the schoolboy enclosure for the princely sum of £1, I’ll never give the SRU another penny.
What an ill-advised bloody appointment baroness Davidson is. Yeah, she probably has clout amongst the Pimms swilling English nobility but the optics are terrible.
Let’s bring rugby to the housing estates – sans calories.
Geri,
it’s no good for you, no matter what you write.
The ICJ won’t hear your case. It hasn’t got the jurisdiction.
Go find an Advocate to tell you that message if you don’t like it from me.
I see the Chinthes are bumping their gums big time in here spouting their usual shite.
We don’t need a foreign country’s permission to dissolve this undemocratic union, Scotland isn’t a region its a country with a border, we’re in a political union not a territorial one, and this union is via a international treaty a treaty that Scotland can dissolve, the Edinburgh Agreement has shown that.
If the English government doesn’t want agree to Scots deciding whether or not they should dissolve this union, then we must go it alone a 50+1% of the votes cast at every election the (VEM) Voters Empowerment Mechanism as described by the Rev and Ash Regan is a perfectly legal way to allow Scots to decide to leave or stay in the union.
The English government desperately doesn’t want to give Scots a route to vote, this was compounded by their Scottish puppet Sturgeon the Judas who as we all know used her pal the LA to try and close down the indyref route via the the Highest English court in England, the Supreme Court, which was founded in 2009 by the English government of the day to counter House of Lords decisions.
The stumbling block for this happening sooner than later is the SNP, or the current SNP MPs/MSPs/FM who are far more interested in their careers and filling their own pockets than freeing Scotland from this undemocratic prison of a union.
There is a clear way out of this union via the (VEM) we just need the right people in place for things to move forward regardless of what the Chinthes say.
Scottish independence.
The«law», the «law» according to whom. The international community? A self selecting bunch….yawn.
Just get on with it. No one will sanction until there is a fait accompli «they»cannot refuse.
Legalism will be the death of independence, through tedium.
ASA
Says Scotland won’t be heard..
****The ICJ is the only international court that adjudicates general disputes between countries, with its rulings and opinions serving as primary sources of international law (subject to Article 59 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice).****
England is a COUNTRY.
Scotland is a COUNTRY.
Therefore it can *settle disputes between countries* by giving a ruling with its opinions..
With the added bonus now that England has left the building in a racist huff that they were relegated to stand with India. How very English of them. That was awkward having to stand with *a beastly people* for the last seat eh?
I’ll bet India will have some pointers on how to get rid of colonial parasites.
Meanwhile it doesn’t take a genius to work out why the NuSNP are fingering pointing at Westminster with regards to Westminster shooting down any more powers on the drug front.
In my opinion the NuSNP knew that the foreign government in England would knock back any more powers over drugs, and are trying to curry favour with the Scottish electorate because they know voters are sick of their lies and deceit, and their carrot dangling on indy.
If the SNP actually cared about the the huge number of Scots that have died from substance abuse (the highest in Europe, compounded by reality that Scotland is treated as a colony and many Scots who die from substance abuse do so because they feel there’s no hope) they would have used Brexit to exit this undemocratic prison of a union, and had all the levers of government that a country needs to function properly
Vote Alba Join Alba.
Down with this undemocratic prison of a union.
Matt Quin said: “ The Greens will be delighted with you; they and their mates are set to make a fortune from all that Rare Earth mining and upgrading of the tail-end of the grid; ”
Question is, why? Do you have any evidence or, if not, a credible source? Or are you just joining in with the Glasgow hard man personna of the other pumpers on here?
So the political party most of you voted for just about managed to meet the Electoral Commission’s deadline for submitting party accounts today. It will be interesting to see what the Commission makes of the fudge.
From the BBC News website-
The SNP changed the way it records donations last week after the auditors, AMS Accountants Group, flagged that the original records for some cash and cheques had not been retained for the current and prior financial years.
First Minister and SNP leader Humza Yousaf said this was because the party previously only kept online records of donations under £250.
Auditors had made a “qualification” because of the missing paperwork,
The SNP said the issue was down to “administrative processes” and there was “no suggestion of misappropriation of funds”.
The latter point is clearly untrue.
To whom it may concern…
I heard, all the time in 2014, “Independence, then we can take care of the environmental stuff”. Well it didn’t happen and we are heading for both economic and biological disasters caused by pushing the economic system harder than the environment can cope with. We also push it harder than communities can cope with. Some people are arguing that that economic policy is intelligent and humane. I think it is stupid and perverse.
It is noticeable that many, most, of the people who have challenged or ridiculed my posts have worked in the oil industry. What a coincidence.
Oil needs to be stopped dead, like Geri says, but no one with any power is saying that. They use the term “Just Transition” which means they will do it in a way the industry will find painless. I don’t think that concession is either possible given the timescale for action, or moral. What they do want to stop is commissioning new wells. That makes sense to me and others who have followed this story over 30+ years.
Of course use will taper off, not finish the day after tomorrow.
Geri,
The ICJ regards the UK as one country, because it’s the UK that signed up to it. Its jurisdiction doesn’t allow it to get involved in disputes between regions of what it thinks is one country.
In any case, it’s certainly not going to get involved unless there’s been a democratic referendum.
You need a Plan C.
“ The trouble with the Greens is they just say what enters their head with very little homework on how they arrived to their conclusions. ”
Said Geri
@ Dan
” Likewise it is a rare thing spotting a middle class green voter pushing for their own young children to go and pick berries to harvest a local seasonal food crop whilst also instilling a work ethic and respect for the ecosystem that sustains them in their young developing minds. ”
This is a good example of what irritates me about the whole * Green * issue . And why the Greens – in the UK anyway – have never succeeded in breaking through to the mass of the population . It’s perceived – I think accurately – as the province of the comfortably off , mildly * concerned * types who don’t seem to be sacrificing much by way of material goods , foreign holidays , material consumption : and , as you say , would run a mile at the thought of actually doing the hard graft involved in producing food . Growing lemons in your conservatory doesn’t qualify as graft , Samantha
An element of stereotyping involved here , for sure , as there is in any attempts to define large groups of people . A good deal of truth too .
It’s also the way Climate – like Covid – hardened into unquestionable orthodoxy , where anything that runs counter to the Master Narrative is subjected to an onslaught of abuse , ridicule , cancelling , character assassination etc – the full arsenal of State/MSM/* Scientific * weaponry .
Plus – again like Covid – how it serves as a pretext/cover for other agendas . Does anyone really think messianic , nutjob * Influencers * like Gates , Schwab , Soros et al are the best people to be leading the charge into the Brave New Green World ?
I love this planet , and derive immense pleasure , solace and meaning from being in/on/of it ; and a sense of wonder at it’s breathtaking beauty and symbiotic complexity .
It’s appalling to see the wanton destruction visited upon our planet by the forces of greed , indifference and needless , senseless wars .
” When we could be diving for pearls ”
If we really want to ” save the planet ” we need to genuinely address what it is it needs saving from .
Clue ….it’s not you or I putting the * wrong * thing in our recycling bins .
Fruitella the hun
Apologies for not following past posts on this subject but I question your assertion of immanent collapse.
A dead stop to carbohydrate production will have a huge effect on industries which use oil based products and will cause great hardship on world populations, would it not?
Certainly, we should clean up our act and stop polluting and, by all means, profits should be more evenly distributed. I agree.
If you are proposing ‘Man made global warming’ as a thing, I think I could challenge that.
‘Just stop’ pushes supply pressure onto other countries so, logically are you suggesting population reduction?
@ fruitella
Soz, but that’s a very poor response. Simply put, all major powers that determine and would facilitate a move to a more eco-sustainable existence in Scotland’s geographic currently reside in Westminster. Eg. England gets HS2 and Scotland doesn’t even have our rail tracks electrified north of Dunblane.
And FYI, the only reason I worked in the oil / gas industry for a half dozen years or so was so I could earn enough to get a mortgage to buy a modest house in the area I live. Working locally as a mechanic would not pay the £12,500 a year required to get the 37,500 mortgage in the mid 90s. And if you think I earned a huge stack of cash then you are way wrong.
I worked day rate, and only worked occasionally when the company needed extra staff in the high season, or on base when they needed what I had to offer.
This choice was because I liked the freedom of choosing when I worked and also allowed the salaried contracted staff to have regular routines and incomes to raise their families. Way more personal info than I would like to post but to make my point, the most I have ever earned in a year is 22k before tax, with a few other years significantly (by about 10 grand) lower, and a couple of years barely a few grand. The fact that I chose not to piss my relatively meagre earnings up a wall living the high life, and instead chose to live frugally and pay off my mortgage early to avoid years of interest payments to greedy arsehole banks now means I have time to give back to my community in voluntary unpaid work.
So get back to me thinking you have any valid authority and position to cast judgement on my green living motivations and credentials when you’ve lived using just 1kwh of leccy for the past 20 years and grow most of your veg.
I run an older but reliable car I saved from the crusher ten years ago. I bought it for 100 quid scrap value coz it needed a radiator and the insurance company wanted to write it off. Bought a used rad off ebay for 12 quid. Maybe you think to be green I should scrap it and drop 10s of K of cash on some piece of disposable leccy powered plastic junk just to do a few thousand miles a year.
You may talk green, but actually living it is what’s needed to make any fucking difference…
fruitella the hun at 7:24pm,
“Oil needs to be stopped dead,”
What’s often forgotten is that oil is a chemical feedstock. In the distant future when it runs out and we can’t make many medicines for example, we’ll think it was madness to have burned the stuff for transportation. That doesn’t stop us taking pleasure rides in this still golden age, you have to live in the moment and let science and engineering find technological solutions. Biology and biochemistry will likely step up and fill the gap, but notwithstanding the explorative aspect of prospecting and drilling for oil bio-synthesis may be an even more arduous and lower volume enterprise. Leaving oil in the ground will seem silly, to say the least.
Dan,
if the most you have ever been bothered to make is £22k, then you aren’t a good advert for Indy. You are a leech off society, instead.
iScotland doesn’t need leeches.
Friday evening thoughts…
Ottomanboi – I’m rather impressed with your knowledge of Scottish history. I know you’re around 20 but when did you land here – and how do you know so much about Scottish history?
The “Green” Party.
I’m old enough to remember when the “Scottish Greens” were perceived as an ecologically passionate, separate entity from the Green Party in England. Like others, I have been impressed with Caroline Lucas over the years but, unfortunately, the Scottish Greens have never produced an MSP of the same calibre.
The nearest they achieved was Andy Wightman, and look what they did to him. Their ecological credentials have been sacrificed for the ‘genderwoowoo’ cause.
Those of pension age in Scotland are most likely to vote against independence. What we need is an ongoing campaign, targeted at them, where it is shown that the UK state pension is almost the lowest in the civilized world and, with independence, “things can only get better”. Compare the UK to Malta, for example.
As John Main often repeats, “show them the money”!
And a “thumbs up” to Dan!
So its cost the Scottish government £22,000 quid for the Elizabeth Sword and the Scottish taxpayer has to foot the bill, not only for that, but a FOI has shown that the Scottish taxpayer has also forked out £50,000 quid to move the Stone of Destiny to London for the English monarchs coronation.
The Scottish public can’t afford to support this foreign king, nor can they afford to keep the NuSNP in office.
Get the NuSNP out and tell KC to bugger off pronto.
Vote Alba, Join Alba.
Robert
So what plan do you support to protect that which you love?
2LT ASA (£33K and pension for doing nothing productive) calling someone a leech.
Priceless
A Scot Abroad says: at 8:28 pm
“Dan,
if the most you have ever been bothered to make is £22k, then you aren’t a good advert for Indy. You are a leech off society, instead.
iScotland doesn’t need leeches.”
You really are a fucking arsehole aren’t you. Why would I require to earn more than I need to get by, and in doing so take a job opportunity away from someone that does need to earn cash to get a start in life.
Would me having more than I need whilst denying another human a living income impress you more.
I guess you missed the bit about the voluntary work I do.
Plus I am self-employed now and pay all my dues.
And lets not overlook sneaky indirect taxation which basically means those on low incomes pay proportionally more of their low earnings in taxes than well off people.
2LT ASA
Did the taxpayer pay for your kid’s education in private schools?
Just asking.
Dan
We’ve been round this before
You said “ Maybe you think to be green I should scrap it and drop 10s of K of cash on some piece of disposable leccy powered plastic junk just to do a few thousand miles a year.
You may talk green, but actually living it is what’s needed to make any fucking difference…”
Sorry to be the one to break it to you but ‘actually living it” makes little difference. Only folk with a plot can really do that and the numbers are too small to matter. Except in terms of proving it can be done, of course. Which is about the most important thing anyone can do,
I have a plot too. Just need to develop the skills and acquire the knowledge.
James Jones @ 6.50
What do you understand the expression “This was because previously the party only kept online records of donations under £250.00” to mean?
At first glance it seems to mean that donations under £250.00 were only kept in an online record and no other record was kept for them.
However, it could also mean that donations over £250.00 were not kept in an online record. So where or how were they kept?
Not being an accountant, I don’t know what an “Online Record” is. It sounds like something to do with the internet, but that can’t be the case can it?
There is something mighty suspicious about what Humza has said and the words he has chosen.
Any thoughts from those with accountancy skills would be welcomed.
“Interesting that on a thread regarding censorship my (mainly positive but with a critical suggestion) previous comment has not been published after 24 hours.”
It’s summer, mate. Politics is on holiday and I’m out in the sun most of the day.
Merganser at 9:02 pm.
“What do you understand the expression “This was because previously the party only kept online records of donations under £250.00” to mean?
At first glance it seems to mean that donations under £250.00 were only kept in an online record and no other record was kept for them.
However, it could also mean that donations over £250.00 were not kept in an online record. So where or how were they kept?”
I must admit I read it as they didn’t record donations greater than £250, on-or off-line, and I thought it must be a typo because surely they’d more likely record donations greater than £250. However, the text as written does seem to support the SNP’s woeful accounting. ‘We can’t account for the perception that we received £600k.’
Dan,
the government spends about £13,000 a head per year. Given that children and pensioners don’t pay that much in tax, basically each working age adult needs to earn enough to pay about £20,000 in tax alone if it’s not to be a deficit society. Business pays a lot, as well.
Earning £22k, and not paying much in tax, you’re a leech.
johnlm
There are no viable mechanisms to solve things at the global level. Any attempts find themselves buried in conspiracy theory mud. The rich will not let any authority exert itself over them anyway.
Population reduction will be the alternative to failing to live within ecological limits – thems the rules, for all animals. I used to think that we would have to find clever ways to do that decently but I now realise that in Scotland we can easily live sustainably with enough foid and warm shelter and, get this, no oil.
Regarding industrial contribution to global warming, does volcanic release map to annual temperature increase?
Contribution to society shouldn’t be judged solely on a monetary basis. What about services given? You could argue that all civil servants are a net draw on the treasury but if their efforts provide public services which enable the private sector to thrive and so pay taxes that’s a good thing. Unfortunately Scotland is public-sector heavy without the necessary private sector to pay for it.
Don’t we need to tackle consumerism first?
There’s no point celebrating yer latest Green results if yer only outsourcing to someone else who is peddling like feck to churn out iPhone 15,16,17,18,19,20
Same with cars, latest gadgets, TVs, designer tat, air miles & warm houses.
All the things you g ppl won’t stop.
It’s an age thing. Hits around 30. Works the same with Politics….& Plots lol
There’s plenty of tutorials on YouTube for managing plots if it’s start, maintain, treatments (organic) to the final dinner table you are looking for. There’s endless allotment channels on there..
James Jones,
that’s self-indulgent. I’ll accept that a few provide services to society: for example a surgeon, but not a GP, who are little more than expensively paid bookings clerks for proper doctors, and actively contribute to public spending by signing people off with various spurious ailments. But overall, you’ve got to see each working adult paying about £20,000 in the various taxes, per year, or the country rapidly runs out credit.
Fruitella the hun says:
7 July, 2023 at 8:45 pm
” Robert
So what plan do you support to protect that which you love? ”
As little as possible . It’s not what you do , it’s what you don’t do . I’m with Lao Tzu n the Deep Taoist Crew on this ….
” Nature does not hurry , yet everything is accomplished ” and , viz Dan ……” He who knows enough is enough will always have enough ”
This is not ” lofty detachment ” or ” benign indifference ” . Rather , an awareness that ” we are the World ” is not just a glib pop song but a fundamental truth . The World isn’t ” out there ” and we ” in here ” ( ie our brains ) . Ourselves and the world ( and everything else ) share a common source and are made of the same * thing *. Call it what you like . I call it Consciousness . Something the prevailing Materialist paradigm considers a mere epiphenomenon of processes in the brain – eg the brain – somehow – creates consciousness . It disnae . No one has been able to solve what’s known as ” the hard problem of consciousness ” – how does/can a lump of jelloid matter and electrical impulses produce non-material states like consciousness , dreams , memories , imagination etc . Answer … it doesn’t/can’t : the material brain , obviously , has a connection/relationship with consciousness , but is not it’s creator.
Excuse the rather long-winded reply ; but you did ask 🙂
A Scot Abroad at 9:48 pm
“that’s self-indulgent.”
Since I’m a private sector worker and not especially a Socialist, it isn’t.
“Excuse the rather long-winded reply ; but you did ask”
My mistake, sorry.
James Jones,
if you are private sector, then you’ll start with the advantage of at least knowing some arithmetic and that things have to be paid for.
At the moment, Scotland doesn’t pay for itself, and there’s far too many people sucking off the public tit, either by being public servants, or on benefits, or just simply working for too little money to pay enough taxes. People like Dan, in the latter category.
So how is an iScotland going to manage?
Fruitella the hun @9.33
Sounds like you recommend a hard stop and population cull.
The UN reporting in 2019 says there is enough food to feed 10 billion annually.
Of course the economy was collapsed soon after but still…
The Greens resemble some sort of death cult.
Geri
You’ve come out of character to give me gardening advice, how sweet!
Tell me, why do you disdain environmentalists?
Yeah, I said that, but I also pointed out that provision of public services at a cost can be beneficial overall if done properly, and indeed is a necessity.
James Jones,
of course, we need public services.
But there’s no balance in Scotland, at the moment. And anyone planning for an iScotland needs to take that into account.
And is anyone doing that level of detailed thinking? It seems not.
Fruitella @9.33
Immediate ban on oil and a population cull.
Your not selling it to me, I’m afraid.
A 2019 UN report says there is enough food produced annually for 10 million people.
Green policies smack of an overzealous religion.
fruitella the hun says: at 9:01 pm
“Sorry to be the one to break it to you but ‘actually living it” makes little difference. Only folk with a plot can really do that and the numbers are too small to matter. Except in terms of proving it can be done, of course. Which is about the most important thing anyone can do,
I have a plot too. Just need to develop the skills and acquire the knowledge.”
But it isn’t only folk with a plot that can do this. Small dynamic sustainable communities can be built. I’ve offered space on my land to folk to grow healthy food but they either don’t have the time or inclination, or just plain old can’t be arsed with the hassle so appear to just munch highly processed junk food whilst watching shit on netflix instead.
If food cultivating knowledge and skills (and other practical skills for that matter such as mechanical and building techniques) can’t be passed down to future generations then they will struggle and become evermore beholden to the big corporate powers.
My garden is stocked with what must now be a hundred of pots of various surplus seedlings and tree saplings I’ve germinated and nurtured on, and cuttings of fruit bushes to give away to folk. Nae cunt wants them! Folk can’t even be arsed helping themselves to free strawberries so have been struggling to eat the produce from 36 plants.
Did manage to give away a bag of rhubarb this afternoon though which was good as the clump was getting so big the leaves were encroaching into the rows of 2 dozen garlic plants.
Soon it will be the 5 blackcurrant bushes ready to harvest, then half dozen autumn raspberries after that. The 2 blueberry bushes are looking heavy with fruit too. They get their topsoil dressed with tea leaves as that adds acidity to the soil which the plants like.
Veg wise a dozen runner bean plants have reached the top of the 7 foot high trellis frame and are blooming with loads of lovely red flowers which once pollinated form the bean pods. They are growing as part of a 3 sisters planting method where they are planted alongside 4 pumpkin plants that cover the ground so keeping it shaded and reducing moisture loss, and also 5 corn on cob plants growing in amongst them. These plants apparently compliment each other well with nitrogen fixing in the soil. Trying a spaghetti squash in that bed too.
The beetroots are looking really good this year and I’ve already nipped a single leaf off the bigger plants on occasion to chuck in a salad. Onions also putting on a spurt now that we have had some rain after that hot dry month. Carrots also fairing well in buckets placed 4 feet off the ground as to avoid carrot fly which only fly up to a couple of feet off the ground.
40 tattie plants look a bit meh after that hot dry month. Hopefully they will pick up some growth soon. Was able to water them and other plants through the dry spell with rainwater collected off the various shed roofs which is collected in loads of the old black bins we had before the wheelie bins rolled out, so that’s good recycling and green points rather than using drinking quality water out of the water supply…
All this is organic and the soil is fed with nutrients from my composting wormery and supplemented with seaweed mulches collected from the shore after stormy weather dumps tonnes of it.
James Jones says: at 9:34 pm
“Contribution to society shouldn’t be judged solely on a monetary basis. What about services given?”
Well I like to operate outwith the paradigm that everything must be determined by money. Or maybe I should bill the council for the hundreds of hours I put in clearing overgrown pavements so the bairns can get to school safely, litter picking roadsides, cutting back visual splays at road junctions for safety, digging out and clearing roadside drains so the roads aren’t flooding and saturated causing the surface to break up with frost damage in our hard winters. This also reduces the amount of damage to cars caused by hitting potholes and driving into unexpectedly flooded areas of road.
And who do I get paid from for all the doctor and hospital appointments I take folk to because there is no or not suitable bus services to these locations.
And all those hours as a community councillor, where’s my money for that.
That’s right, I believe you can give back time and effort to and for the benefit of communities and wider society and not be classed as a leech on the state by some prick like ASA on the internet.
I said that too. You must have the last word though.
James Jones,
your last comment, and the one before it, didn’t address the begged questions. They just stated obvious stuff, leaving a lot up in the air.
So, who in iScotland is going to be addressing the balance between public good and making some money to pay in taxes for it all?
There’s a huge amount of silence on that in the Indy debate. And that’s not good enough.
johnlm
“Immediate ban on oil and a population cull.”
Where did you get that idea, it’s crazy. Maybe you’re too trusting. Maybe you don’t read that well. Maybe you see what you hope to see to confirm your bias.
In Scotland, with 625000ha arable, we can easily support ourselves many times over. I posted the sums before. Can do them again for you If sums aren’t your fort?. No oil needed for cultivation or transport if people grow their own. Huge departure from current practice but technically feasible, has been for millennia.
Fruitella, or Fruitelka ?
“People grow their own.”
Anyway, I’ve heard the self-sufficiency argument before, but unless you want to go back to subsistence farming by obliging everyone to tend an allotment (miles from home, and assuming they’re physically able to tend it) it’s idealistic nonsense rooted in fantasy.
625000 ha divided by 5.5 mill Scots gives us a bit less than 0.12 ha each, which is approx 0.3 acres.
A fit, healthy, hard working, young person might be able to grow a subsistence diet for a year on a less than third acre plot, but it’s not a lifestyle anybody would accept if any real alternative existed.
Many, the old, Ill or weak, would starve. I guess the survivors would accrue bigger plots as the population dwindled.
“Support ourselves many times over?” BS on stilts.
fruitella the hun
I don’t disdain environmentalists.
I disdain the Scottish Greens because they have zero care for the environment. They’re a front.
They have hee-haw powers to stop oil.
They scream on twitter *fuck independence -trans rights first*
Showing their priorities despite knowing the equality act is another reserved matter along with oil. Utterly pointless.
The one chance they get to implement some of their policies they fck it up because they continually think they’ll cherry pick the best bits of a policy & like spoilt brats want instant gratification & results. When confronted of why it fucked up in parly it turns out they didn’t do a bit of homework first or follow ALL of the necessary steps to get from A to Z & just went straight to Z & hope someone else will sort it out or as Slater wanted *some suggestions* ffs!
They also have disdain for biology, the law, women’s rights, gay rights, freedom of speech, children’s safety, parents rights & now want to cull babies in the womb regardless of them being near full term or not ffs..on & on their satanic & dangerous shit goes in their hedonistic crusade that includes pedos &sex offenders. It’ll be beastiality next & fk the animals. Literally.
If the Scottish Greens aren’t trying to shag something it’s wanting to mutilate it, kill it, cull it or control it.
They’re not environmentalists. If they were they’d be at Faslane demanding a clean up & highlighting the MODs toxic dumping in Scotland. That’ll kill us quicker than oil.
Whatever happened to Louise Batchelor eh?
Patrick Harvie is an odious cretin. Even uncoupling English Greens cause they weren’t pervy enough..
& Someone mentioned Andy Wightman – Absolutely! Sterling work on land reform & who owns what in Scotland & fighting the good fight on criminality – The Greens shamelessly made his position untenable because *shock, horror* he DARED to share a stage/speaking event with a woman’s campaigner.
Fruitella
Apologies if I misread your posts.
‘Stopping oil dead’ and ‘painful transitions necessary due to timescales’ made me think that you plan something sudden and drastic.
Other bits, I grant you, sound less Cambodian.
James Jones
It’s near impossible to get an allotment. It’s yrs long waiting lists & if some lucky buggers name finally makes it to the top of the list they’ll snap up all available plots if there is any spare.
I’m lucky that I have a massive garden & greenhouses but it’s not all fun & games growing your own. The moment you plant something yer ringing the dinner bell for every rabbit, rat, mouse, squirrel, birds, butterflies, caterpillars, snails, whitefly, blackfly, aphids, someone’s wandering cat, foxes & I ain’t even started on the blight & diseases, the mountains of compost & dodgy seeds that don’t germinate…
Fruitella 1st rule needs to
1 for me, 5 to disease, 10 to the wildlife when considering his harvests or just nip to the supermarket & pick up a cabbage for a quid lol
Dan, yer garden sounds lovely.
A glut can be a problem. I’m surprised no one is snapping up your fresh free produce in the fashionable age of fresh smoothies & milkshakes. Can you not prepare them for freezing?
A bag of frozen mixed berries is 4.50 in the supermarket & that’s only two servings. You’d be able to enjoy them through the winter.
John main on stilts
“A fit, healthy, hard working, young person might be able to grow a subsistence diet for a year on a less than third acre plot, but it’s not a lifestyle anybody would accept if any real alternative existed.”
Forty allotments to to the hectare, WW2 sized. Each providing veg for a WW2 family, done right – so their posters claimed.
One allotment equals hobby work for one old character, without mechanical tilling.
As for who would accept such a lifestyle, some would. Sometimes I get the impression that educated adults think we can carry on as in the recent past, factory farming and importing stuff from other countries. That’s over. I’m making the case that we can be self sufficient if we reorganise. And I’d add that we can be largely debt free if we include self build. But it takes a modicum of imagination to break out of orthodox thinking on the subject.
Take a look at Ukr aine on google maps. Plenty wee plots adjacent to the houses and the huge machine-farmed export fields – why do you think that is?
I know many neither want to nor would be any use at living an agrarian way and I wonder what they plan to do instead, beyond praying to be spared, and fed.
What annoys me about the “Greens” is they stopped talking about this stuff nearly forty years ago when the communist diaspora clooked in. Commies don’t like peasants (despite the sickle in their logo), too independent.
The big question is how we get the farmers/landowners on board to start it off. I don’t see a civil war as the way forward and hope a better arrangement can be devised. It’s the rural repopulation people used to talk about and the landowners, some of them anyway, might be supportive. They have a stake in the future too.
Now then John, what’s your plan to deal with the challenges ahead? More of the same done more efficiently in business terms? Proper accounting? Better management? Carbon Capture made to work?
I would ask people to sign Alf Baird’s petition on the Clydeport Nationalisation and to spread the word and get people to sign also
We have to start pressuring the clowns in HR to do something to move our ports forward
the link
https://petitions.parliament.scot/petitions/PE2029
Johnlm
“…made me think that you plan something sudden and drastic.”
If you don’t think anything drastic is happening, and many don’t, then what I’m advocating is going to look daft.
It is the climate deniers and the nature-is-infinitely-adaptable brigade who have wasted 40 years we could have been restructuring.
They also tend to be up for the doomsday fight they smell in the air. I’m not, a peacenik to the core but one who believes in well organised defence.
By ‘climate denier’ i assume you mean ‘man-made climate warming deniers’
Unnatural global warming and population numbers are fear stories put out by Governments to increase their control over the people.
It has to be done now because it is projected that World populations will flatten out by 2050 and the fear won’t work then.
There is absolutely no need to panic on that basis
If there is a doomsday scenario it will be created by crooked pols collapsing the world economy.
However. a self-sufficient, less-polluted Scotland I heartily agree with.
johnlm
Some fishing practices destroy the resource they “harvest”. That’s stoopid, with two ‘o’s and a goofy hat. It’s beyond stoopid to campaign against restoration plans, in principle, as Alex Salmond has signalled his troops to do.
There are more examples from farming. Even if the population flattens out, that’s us still driving to the abyss.
So what does account for the increase in atmospheric CO2 etc.? I’ve heard some ideas over the the last thirty-something years but you maybe have your finger on that pulse. You missed (ignored?) my previous question to you on that.
I am aware that the nuclear power backers were quick to take up human emissions as a weapon against their rival, coal. They also fought wind power. But the power to make the (political) weather was always with oil.
fruitella
I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about the last war, but nobody ever claimed they existed on what they could grow themselves.
Until you did, today.
That’s nonsense.
We will probably transition to carbon-neutral for all our energy needs, but it will take time, just as the grown-ups say it will. We will certainly take popular, democratic opinion and support with us, cos otherwise, it just won’t happen.
I don’t doubt your commitment to sitting in the dark, never travelling anywhere and subsisting on the neeps you grow yourself. Just as I don’t doubt your total inability to make everybody else do the same.
Not even if you persuade every Wings BTL reader to join you.
Soz.
Fruitella
We’re told that CO2 is 0.04% of the atmospheric gas mixture, up by 50% since the start of the industrial revolution; the BBC would say its down to humans; others say that it was the end of the Little Ice Age.
Mars’s ice caps are melting btw.
Are we conflating two unrelated facts?
The earth is a dynamic system.
In the last 150 years temperatures have gone both up and down.
There has obvious rigging of data (as per the University of East Anglia leaked emails.) – Unhelpful data is dropped; data sets beginning on years which show upward trends promoted; other greenhouse gasses (water vapour accounts for 95%) ignored.
Are chemtrails real? Why does Greta not mention them or Nordstream?
Why is Bill Gates wanting to block out the Sun?
I don’t have any clear answers but I do know when I am being played and I wonder why.
I’m sure fishing, farming, oil and nuclear manipulate politicians and you are right to point that out.
John – can I call you John?
I said veg, you know, arable produce. Meat, dairy and cereal crops are largely produced on lower grade land. Not sure you understand this.
Your belittling of anything other than your banal vision is a personality quirk to have a wee think about.
From Judy Curry’s website, Climate Etc
there’s a comment by Mike Jonas who had a paper published last year.
“The problem can be summarized as follows: If we do not acknowledge the substantial effect of low solar activity, we are left without a satisfactory explanation for the occurrence of the Little Ice Age. The application of causal identification techniques within systems theory sheds light on this problem of explainability.[7] These techniques involve comparing forced identification, using the forcings identified by the IPCC, with free identification, where no specific forcings are assumed. This analysis shows that a large solar forcing is needed to explain both the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age. As a result, the IPCC hypothesis of low climate sensitivity to solar activity is shown to be incorrect.”
“How dare anyone drive anything other than the latest tech as you’ll be killing the planet” they say.
Meanwhile… I’m surrounded by fields and hills of sheep, yet…
“In 2022, the number one country of origin for the United Kingdom’s lamb and mutton imports was New Zealand. Imports from Oceania came to a total of about 12.6 million metric tons of lamb from New Zealand and about 5.3 million metric tons from Australia.”
https://www.statista.com/statistics/298096/import-volume-of-lamb-by-countries-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
johnlm
I have always been aware about questions around climate models. I am told it is a feature that all sophisticated models have questions arising from measured results that don’t conform.
I’m persuaded that enough scientists go with the theory to take it as, in common parlance, fact. I know that the oil industry has funded ‘sceptic” work. I tend to be doubtful over interest-group research findings.
That said, the damage we do to the environment is through methods farming and construction that require vast quantities of cheap energy. Even if there were no discernible effect on climate from burning fossil fuel, there would still be an overwhelming argument for massively reducing cheap energy input into farming and development to protect essential bio-systems. This is what incenses JM, the site parkie. His mission is to maximise any and all exploitation opportunities, it seems to me.
It’s the denial that our economics does harm, or if it does, that the answer is more efficient daft economics, that I find tiresome 45 years on from being an early member of the Ecology Party.
@fruitella the hun 1.01 pm
“It’s the denial that our economics does harm, or if it does, that the answer is more efficient daft economics, that I find tiresome…”
Yes
From “How corrupt is Britain?” 2016 David Whyte editor.
“The term ‘neoliberalism’ is used here to refer to the ‘doctrine that market exchange is an ethic in itself, capable of acting as a guide for all human action’.3 It is important to stress that it is a doctrine and not a type of society. Neoliberalism affects societies unevenly and sometimes unpredictably. Often neoliberal reforms do not result in the claimed cuts to public spending or improvements in the ‘efficiency’ of public services. The gap between the claims of the doctrine and the results is perhaps produced in part because mistakes were made or the theory was inadequate, but most importantly it is because the doctrine is a means of pursuing – we might say masking – certain interests. It is, in other words, ideological.
The key result of the pursuit of neoliberal ideology in practice has been a society mired in institutional corruption, affecting both the public and private sectors…”
It’s strange that all major corporations, even corporations antagonistic to one another all seem to be owned by Vanguard, Blackrock and Statestreet.
These same tell our politicians and institutions what to do.
Surprising to hear that anybody still believes Scientists after 3 years of C*vid nonsense.
Johnlm
You must believe scientists though, those who challenge the establishment view. How else would you get your info?
https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/republicans-judiciary.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/2023-07-06-jdj-tm-db-to-buckley-vanguard.pdf
Here is one of the investment behemoths being challenged for possibly causing harm by following a Net Zero protocol. Funny old world [pasted live link because pdf]
@fruitella 1:01
I won’t write I am disappointed by your personal smear of me – I never expected much of you in the first case.
Still, for somebody who claims to be so driven by the existentialist urgency of the climate crisis, it surprises me that you are so blind to the optics of how resorting to personal abuse looks, and how it weakens your case.
Ah well, what counts the end of the world, compared with putting one over on an anonymous online poster, eh fruitella?
Sorry, John. Momentarily forgot how thin-skinned you are for someone who sees it as their vocation to gun down anybody who proposes anything outside your, somewhat obscure, vision of how to get Indy and even more murky picture of what you think it will achieve. You post far too much, even if it’s your job, to have fact-checked it all.
Maybe you are a sergeant major keeping the troops on mission rather than a saboteur out to demoralise but it is hard to know.
Why would you expect anything of me anyway – you have no idea who I am. Which means you can play the ball or the man without fear of saying something defamatory. I chose that because I have ideas to test and because I have no personal political ambition.
I want to see an agrarian spine (re-)grown in Scotland on the arable deserts (in nature terms). Letting small preferably local groups self-build, free of the current building codes and planning regs that people would point to as preventing them using home grown skills ingenuity and as far as possible locally sourced materials. I want to see a tax holiday for them while they establish their settlements. They would come out of that skilled, largely debt free self-reliant and resourceful. What better gift to Scotland?
And of course I want us to start building a system that does not depend on oil for a variety of reasons. Opening new wells will delay that.
Do you really not realise you deal out plenty personal abuse yourself?