The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

The depths of madness

Posted on November 10, 2022 by

Yesterday we watched the first day’s proceedings of For Women Scotland taking the Scottish Government to court over its definition of what a woman is.

The topic is really very niche but will affect us all if the judge rules for the government (we won’t know the outcome for at least a month or two), so here’s the short version of what it’s all about.

Let’s say there’s a male, called John, and he feels uncomfortable in his body for some reason. Under the Scottish Government’s proposed new process which involves no checks of any kind, he acquires a free Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC), which allows John to change the sex on his birth certificate to female. We’ll call this John’s “certificated sex”.

The Scottish Government says that this GRC makes John female in ALL respects. So you ask for a female doctor to do your smear test and John turns up to do it because his certificated sex is now female. You attend a rape counselling session (the service advertised the job as for females only) and you find John runs it, because all the provisions in the Equality Act that create single-sex spaces for females for reasons of safety or privacy or dignity now include John.

(Below left, on a girly shopping expedition with his mate Dan.)

Conversely, let’s imagine a female called Alice who also acquires a GRC, so her certificated sex is now male. The Scottish Government says Alice is now male in all respects. Alice immediately loses any rights and protections in law under the Abortion Act, because it specifically applies to women (meaning females) – because only females can get pregnant or need an abortion – and the Scottish Government says Alice is now male.

So should Alice get pregnant from being raped, she’ll have no right to an abortion. Should she get pregnant by choice (because a Scottish GRC requires no change of body, dress or behaviour in order to change your certificated sex so of course male Alice can get pregnant), the legislation that protects her from discrimination during pregnancy, or after it – eg while breastfeeding – refers specifically to women, females.

So should Alice’s employers cut her pay to less than the males in the company doing the same job as her because she’s taken maternity leave, Alice has no recourse in law because she’s now male and is no longer being sexually discriminated against.

On the other hand, should Alice need IVF to get pregnant she can’t have it, because males can’t get pregnant. But there’s good news too! Should Alice want to be a surrogate mother – to provide a baby for John and Dan, perhaps – she can do whatever the hell she wants because the surrogacy legislation also refers and applies solely to women, meaning females. Alice is outside the law because her certificated sex is now male, so she can have a baby and hand it over to whoever she wants.

And at any point in these events, or if Alice needs treatment for any other gynaecological issue, she can be excluded from the female-only gynaecological ward (if such a thing even still exists in Scotland in 2022), but John and his fully-intact, fully-functioning penis WOULD be allowed on that ward.

(All the pronouns we’ve used here to refer to John and Alice will soon be hate crimes.)

Is your mind blown yet?

What was of particular interest yesterday was that the body created to look after the implementation of the Equality Act, the Equality & Human Rights Commission, are supporting the Scottish Government’s legal defence in court. You read that right. The body given the job of upholding the law covering nine protected characteristics of vulnerable groups believes that a GRC grants the holder a certificated sex in ALL respects. John becomes female and Alice becomes male and everyone else has to live with the consequences.

From the age of 16 – even as low as 12, if their coalition partners the Scottish Greens get their way – the Scottish Government wants any male to be able to acquire a GRC with no medical diagnosis, no gatekeeping and no safeguarding, and be legally female in every way.

So young girls and women will have to accept John as female at all times, even when giving us internal examinations, or mammograms, or serving time in a female prison, on our hospital wards or in our changing rooms and toilets, whereas the Alices of the world will be forced to be male in ALL aspects. Alice will be placed in male prisons, in male hospital wards, and have males examine her.

You probably don’t pay much attention to things like judicial reviews. They don’t get on the news much. But you should with this one, because its potential to impact on your life is truly huge.


Scottish Feminist Network can be found on Twitter and Facebook.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

71 to “The depths of madness”

  1. Muscleguy says:

    Thank you for watching this for those of us who can’t due to pesky things like being at work. I have seen suggestions on twitter that EVERYBODY in Scotland should apply for a GRC to make of it an unworkable mockery. This sounds like an interesting proposal.

    Any law which is in disrepute as this one soon would be would cease to be in effective operation.

    Are you sure the EHRC are really on ScotGov’s side? They are on recent record in warning them that the GRR would be in conflict with the Equality Act and that Scotland in the union has no right to impose self ID people on the rest of the union and the other governments of these isles could choose not to recognise them in any way.

    So what they are pointing out shows up the ridiculousness of the proposal to the court. If that is what they are doing then maybe we should thank them.

    It doesn’t look like the GRR is Competent and could well get stopped by the Presiding Officer or refused Royal Assent. I do see the point of this action though. It needs stopping by any all means at our disposal.

    I might bung ForWomenScot some extra dosh this month.

  2. Craig says:

    WOW, a viewpoint that I would never have considered because all the attention is focused on preventing “men” from accessing women’s safe spaces but never thought about the other side of the coin.

    Many thanks for this article, now I hope the lawyers see this argument and utilise it as a danger to Transmen and that safeguards must remain in place.

  3. Robert says:

    Just wanted to share this brilliant parody by Helen Saxby: Twins Rights are Human Rights

  4. Ruby says:

    Is the 2004 GRA not the root cause of all these problems?

    I posted this on the previous thread:

    Links in first post are a mess due to moderation of ("Tractor" - Ed)
    I’ll try again.
    Ian Brotherhood says:
    We can’t wait to hear tomorrow how @scotgov & EHRC justify this absolutel madness

    See my earlier post:

    The Scottish government responded by revising the guidance that accompanies the legislation, to stress that it covers women as defined by the Equality Act – but also trans people as defined by the 2004 Gender Recognition Act (GRA).

    The guidance quotes directly from the 2004 Act, and reads: “Where a full gender recognition certificate has been issued to a person that their acquired gender is female, the person’s sex is that of a woman. And where a full gender recognition certificate has been issued to a person that their acquired gender is male, the person’s sex becomes that of a man.”

    How the 2004 GRA came about is interesting.

  5. Athanasius says:

    I don’t imagine it’s any better in England, but putting that aside, can I just ask, what exactly is the point of having an independent Scotland if it turns out to be the kind of dystopian hellscape described above?

  6. Ruby says:

    For anything other than change of sex on a birth certificate does a man need a GRC to live as a woman?

    Eddie Izzard just put on a dress and now he is a she.

  7. Andy Ellis says:


    I suspect the $64,000 question is whether enough pro-independence folk (and particularly women horrified at the rank misogyny of the TRA agenda) are prepared to either vote against independence or abstain, as a result of the potentially dominant SNP/Green parties being in control post indy.

    Presumably many will be faced with a choice between staying in a UK governed by a Tory government they hate which is at least making the right noises about opposing the worst excesses of the TRA’s, and hoping that if we achieve independence we’ll be able to change any SNP/Green policy on GRA in the early days of the first independence parliament, on the basis that the extreme TRA agenda they are advancing has negligible popular support?

  8. Ruby says:

    ‘My brother died of ovarian cancer’: Why Deputy Lords Speaker Ian Duncan is campaigning for trans health

    That is very sad!

    How can you campaign for trans health when the trans part of all records must be kept private.

    GRC are issued due to a trans persons right to privacy.

    There is something very wrong with all the ‘gender recognition’ madness.

  9. willie says:

    Dear God, this country is a lunatic asylum. There are no other words for it.

    This government better think about more hate crime legislation because having released this lunacy some of these lunatics are going to come hurtling their way.

    It’s at times like this when you realise ordered civil society can turn against their political masters.

  10. James Che says:


    You made a excellent point on whom is providing the support financially and legally to the Scottish governments trans gender issues.

    Funding behind the scenes is the key to the Snp’s Scottish governments ideology,
    This is where you truly do your best work.

  11. James Che says:


    The Country is not mad,

    It is the people in the devolved government that are mad for accepting payments for mad.

  12. James Che says:


    How does this effect England.

    It doesn’t.

    We are not in a treaty of union with Englands parliament.

    We are just colonised.

  13. Republicofscotland says:

    I’m of the opinion that this is all part of Sturgeon’s plan to keep Scottish society divided and fighting among ourselves which is meant to take our minds off leaving this union.

    My heart goes out to women and girls in Scotland who’ll suffer greatly from this, men pretending to be women will flood their safe spaces, among them many predators, yet Sturgeon the betrayers says she wants to protect women’s rights, which this shows is an outright lie.


    On the contrary this shows that its more important than ever to obtain independence and remove Sturgeon in the process. For if she’s still in office after this madness is concluded we’ll suffer further under an even madder plan of hers which are no doubt in the pipeline.

  14. Lorna Campbell says:

    It is in the area of law, as the Network lays out, that most impact on our lives will be felt. A young woman who has changed her gender to become a ‘man’, and who then goes on to commit a crime, will be obliged by law, if this insanity goes through, to be housed in an all-male prison. Not given much hope of getting through her sentence without being sexually assaulted, she will be obliged to change back to being a ‘trans’ woman to get into the female prison estate. You couldn’t make this ordure up, you really couldn’t. Except, they did.

    The implications for every facet of our society that is touched in any way by the law will be impacted by this lunacy. Then, there are the prohibitive laws on sexuality and age that prevent wide-scale abuse of minors and protect females from public displays of male fetishes (unwanted touching, voyeurism, illegal photographing and videoing, flashing, etc.). These, too, will be targeted. Logically, if you have one or more of a hundred+ gender identities, you will require the right in law to indulge it/them.

    This stuff will grow arms and legs. The sheer cowardice and stupidity of our elected politicians, public institutions, private businesses, et al in the face of this madness is beyond redemption. It is a total nonsense, easily debunked with science, logic and reason. Hurt feelz are something we all have to endure at times. Time for our elites to grown up and grow a pair and face down what they know perfectly well – all except the seriously deranged Greens and some of the permanently adolescent SNP gender warriors, that is – is a social contagion based on the over-consumption of porn and attention-seeking coupled, on occasion, to Muchausen’s and/or Munchausen’s by Proxy.

    Body dysphoria undoubtedly exists, but the vast majority of the GRC seekers and those who won’t bother with a GRC if self-ID is ushered in, but will bulldoze their way in anyway, are not body dysphoric/dysmorphic, but fetishists – and dangerous because most cannot admit it and will not be made to admit it, but would attack you if you tried to force a confession out of them, and this is what they want to unleash on all females, and on society.

  15. Nally Anders says:

    Thanks for the link Ruby.
    Ian Duncan says his brother was a
    “transgender man who died from a type of cancer that kills predominantly females”.
    It’s the orwellian inclusive language that upsets.
    Not ‘predominantly’,Ovarian cancer ONLY kills females.
    Getting involved in ‘Trans health’ won’t help other transmen such as Sean, if they are in complete denial of their sexed bodies.

  16. Nally Anders says:

    The dystopian nightmare continues in Wales with their approach to sex education. Given the level of capture in the Scotgov, likely coming to a school near you.
    Parents here are already complaining they can’t even get eyes on the content.
    Fkn horrifying.

  17. James Che says:

    Lorna Campbell.

    The problem is not in there body, the problem is in there heaadds,
    I am not saying they are mentally ill by no means,

    But logic dictates it is not a mans penis that is shouting out ” I am women’s virgina.

    Its the head on top of the mans shoulders that is out of sync, the same goes for a woman wanting to be a man,
    It is not the body that decides it wants to wear a dress, lippy and heels. The body has no brain working in a thinking separate capacity or entity from the brain above the shoulders.
    Therefore it is not a body dysphoria, it is a cranium dysphoria,

    The government are actually treating the wrong part of the human in this self ID nonsense.

  18. Geri says:

    Independence is dead.

    Women (& men protecting thier family) won’t vote for this bullshit. Period.
    It’ll not be a simple case of *hold yer nose folks*
    Women won’t throw away thier rights *in the hope* to get them back later. It’s just not going to happen. Especially with this crew who seem teflon protected & going nowhere.

    I advocate a big brother type house of Trans for a month. Throw in Sturgeon, purple clad Blackford, Hunter & Shona – add copious amounts of alcohol & some drag acts & let’s see who runs to the Diary Room first to complain who’s pissing next to them in the showers & *spaffing* up the walls.

  19. James Che says:

    Nally Anders.

    So whom is funding the ideology think tanks at the back of so many governments, that is the question.

    They have not all caught this ideology from a sudden virus attacking governments brain input.

    But if it has spread from government to government and from council to council around the World.
    Then the they need to under go treatment and be interred in hospital with forced vaccination to stop the spread of the dis-ease.

  20. Breeks says:

    By whose authority did the SNP decide to park Independence up a quiet cud-de-sac and pursue this absurd insanity instead?

    It is an abject betrayal of the Independence Movement, and requires Sturgeon and charlatans to be impeached.

    It’s the equivalent of employing a Contractor to build a House, but after 8 years, you’re handed the keys to a second hand horse box.

    It’s a straight up fraud, yet there are still idiots who’ll insist the project is in safe hands, rather than accept they’ve been conned and have 8 years worth of egg on their face.

  21. twathater says:

    I know this won’t be popular but many many women have to take responsibility for the continuance of this reviled lunacy ,instead of listening when Stuart Campbell and others including myself were ringing alarm bells loudly many women were too engrossed in showing sympathy ,empathy and compassion to these poor wee souls, the same poor wee souls that don’t give a fcuk what happens to REAL girls and women

    These perverts and deviants because that is what the majority of them are are only interested in getting their deviant kicks irrespective of the damage done to others

    I proposed on these pages more than 3 years ago for women to arrange a demonstration to holyrood to show sturgeon and her tartan taliban wokesters the opposition to her policy , the responses were let’s wait and see she won’t see this through

    I also proposed a mass letter sending of declarations to sturgeon and her ministers that if sturgeon would not pause this legislation the sender and their respective families and friends would REFUSE TO VOTE FOR THE snp , the response was silence

    THIS is what happens when you show empathy and compassion to people who deliberately set out to use and abuse your compassion , people who ONLY care about themselves and how to capitalise on your WEAKNESS
    TBQH women need to stop caring about the needs of poor?? trans people and harden up and concentrate on WINNING this battle no matter what because REAL females futures are being DESTROYED , and it’s about time REAL MEN joined the fight to protect their mothers ,wives and daughters

  22. Geri says:

    I had a barrage of abuse when I linked Sturgeons*UN rights of the child* Q&A

    I was described as *just like Farage* WTAF?!

    Aye, cause I was *persecuting a minority*

    & That was from a female follower.

    Males just couldn’t give a shit. Basically *I dunno what this is all aboot but shut-it for indy*

    With this policy comes some sort of inbuilt fkn woo woo effect! It just doesn’t compute.

  23. Liz says:

    @twathater we’ve done all of what you said.
    We campaigned outside Holyrood on this very issue, 1st one a year ago.

    We’ve been filling in their stupid consultations since 2019.
    We’ve had womens groups, experts writing detailed information to them but nada.

    The main reason being, off social media, few have a clue.

  24. Ruby says:

    Voting Yes would give women more of a chance of getting back their hard won rights.

    Because in an iScotland we could get shot of the SNP/Green and any other independence parties we wouldn’t need them any more.

    We could vote for Party 1 advocating the ending of all ‘gender recognition’ acts and going back to good old male or female sex or alternatively voting for Party 2 fighting for ‘gender recognition’

    It would be an interesting election.

    There might be an issue with the ECHR but then we could decide if we wanted to be part of the ECHR.

    Which party would you choose Party 1 or Party 2.

  25. Ruby says:

    twathater says:
    10 November, 2022 at 5:21 pm

    I know this won’t be popular but many many women have to take responsibility for the continuance of this reviled lunacy ,instead of listening when Stuart Campbell and others including myself were ringing alarm bells loudly many women were too engrossed in showing sympathy ,empathy and compassion to these poor wee souls, the same poor wee souls that don’t give a fcuk what happens to REAL girls and women

    What has happen since then. Men on Wings have gone very quiet about this issue. Always loads of comments & links about the war, covid & the franchise but hardly anything about ‘gender recognition’.

    Comments were even closed down the other day on ‘Safeguarding is universal’

  26. Merganser says:

    Geri @ 4.56.

    Now we can see why Sturgeon wants the next election to be on a single issue. People won’t get the chance to vote on important matters like this, so people will still vote SNP in the desire for independence.

    She won’t do anything with ‘yet another mandate’ (She has already confirmed this) BUT she will have won another 5 years to get this legislation through – without people having a say.

    When will people wake up to this monster of deceit?

  27. Merganser says:

    continued…and whatever other perverted ideas she has in mind.

  28. Merganser says:

    If Rishi Sunak had any sense he would agree a s.30 now and spike her guns, so that this, and all the other important issues (mostly SNP failures) would figure in the election. Sadly the damage done by the SNP and Sturgeon in particular has made it much more likely that ‘No’ will succeed again. But it might spell the end of Sturgeon’s false pretences and enable a genuine, normal independence party to gain more power.

    Breeks, you have continually tried to point out how bad Sturgeon is. She could prove to be even worse than your assessment of her!

  29. willie says:

    Ah chicks with dicks in a woman’s prison could be every prisoner’s prayer.

    Sure, beats the men’s prison where some poor non-gender reassigned is told he’s to play mommy today. Or maybe a prick without a dick could be a useful thing in the men’s big house.

    I know I make light of a serious subject. But reading this piece today you really do have to make light of where we are headed. Makes you wonder if Nicola is a dildo wielder. Or is Peter a fanny baws.

    Ach, totally sick of it. But when do the bring in the animals. Honest to goodness, that’ll be the next thing the way we are going. Or the kiddies. Who knows some of these organisations that the SG fund support the most odious of things.

    Vote SNP!!!

  30. Republicofscotland says:


    Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots met with little Sunak today in Blackpool (establishment talking to itself) Sunak will turn a blind eye to what Sturgeon gets up to in Scotland as long as Sturgeon doesn’t push for Scotland to leave this union.

    Sturgeon’s MSPs and MPs are gutless and spineless, and will keep their heads down, mouths shut and snouts in the taxpayer’s trough, we need to hit these bastards where it hurts, at the ballot box.

    We must vote for the Alba party at the next GE and then Alba at every election. If you’re a woman a real one that is, voting for the Alba party who have promised to protect women’s rights is a no brainer.

    Vote the bastards out.

  31. Ruby says:

    If you’re a woman a real one that is, voting for the Alba party who have promised to protect women’s rights is a no brainer.

    What are they going to do and when are they going to do it?

  32. Merganser says:

    Republic @ 7.05

    Agreed. But the deviousness of Sturgeon is to use the next GE as a de facto referendum, or plebiscitary election on one issue only which people will fall for yet again. It gets her back in power again, independence is kicked down the road again, Alba will hardly make a dent, the same snouts are happily back in their named troughs, and we are left ranting again.

    The only thing I can see which would stop this run-away train is exposure of everything and everyone involved in the Salmond attempted stitch-up.

    It feels like being in a boxing fight with arms handcuffed behind our backs. Scotland is in a dark place at the moment and desperately needs people to wake up before it is lost for ever.

  33. Tinto Chiel says:

    *Shakes old grey head in disbelief*

    Older readers will categorise this madness as The Triumph of The PIEmen. The Paedophile Information Exchange was blatantly big about forty years ago and the likes of Harriet Harman (and other female Labour types in the former National Council for Civil Liberties like Patricia Hewitt) pushed their crapola for a while.

    IIRC in those days PIE was pushing for a big reduction in the age of consent under the guise of some weird notion of “freedom”. This was bad enough before I was a father but now as a grandfather my repulsion knows no bounds.

    Unfortunately, the SNP nodding donkeys and clapping seals in both Holyrood and WM seem to see nothing wrong in all this batshit crazy perversion.

    I suppose in the long run The Controllers know this will all go Gove-up for Princess Nikla and independence will thus be holed massively below the waterline.

    As Johnny Rotten once queried, “Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?”

  34. Lorna Campbell says:

    James Che: yes, James, I didn’t say that it was not in their heads because it patently is. The research done around this issue always comes full circle back to sexual fetishes. If people would just understand that even those with gender/body dysphoria/dysmorphia are very likely to also be fetishists, we might start to get a handle on this.

    Take the female side and the child side. The females (‘trans’ men) are, by dint of biology, no threat to men; they cannot play male sports; and there are jobs that are simply unsuitable for a woman to do because of their strength differentials. To a great extent, this part of the ‘trans’ issue is a female social contagion like starving yourself to death in the belief that you are fat. ‘Trans’ children must exist if adult ‘trans’ exist, so it is imperative that they are captured by this ideology at the very earliest ages.

    Only the ‘trans’ women really benefit in any measurable way because they do not require to remove body parts. Have you heard of a ‘trans’ man with breasts and vagina claiming to be ‘trans’ and accessing male spaces and rights? If you have, they will be awaiting breast removal. We have yet to see any ‘trans’ child grow up and go on to make a great success of his/her life. So, yes, this movement is most definitely driven by the penis, buoyed by a level of pornography that most would find overwhelming.

    The question is: which came first, the fetish or the brain scramble? Personally, I think it was the sexual fetish which led to massive porn consumption that scrambled the brain. However, psychologists are starting to discover that childhood trauma might well have led to the abasement of self to the fetish in the first place. We simply have not enough knowledge of this issue – and certainly not enough to be basing laws upon. Sturgeon is way, way out of her depth and Harvie and Slater are playing her, as are several of her own MPs and MSPs.

    I’m not exonerating her, but these people have used the SNP like a hanky and will toss it aside when it has done the dirty business. Independence has been sidelined in the SNP for this stuff; it is little more now than a vehicle for the ‘trans’ lobby. Since 2015, this stuff has been the goal, not independence. If people would only open their peepers and stand up to this lobby, we might get back on an even keel with independence before it is too late.

  35. Andy Ellis says:

    What has happen since then. Men on Wings have gone very quiet about this issue. Always loads of comments & links about the war, covid & the franchise but hardly anything about ‘gender recognition’.

    I’ve never seen or heard anyone in here, man or woman from what we’d know, who has disagreed to any meaningful extent with what Rev Stu and others have been saying about “this issue” though? Many of us have stood up and been counted. That doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to discuss or prioritise other issues though.

    I happen to agree its an important issue, but it certainly doesn’t seem to be making much headway amongst the general public, or at least not to the extent that they’re turning away from the parties pushing the TRA agenda, which (let’s not forget) means the SNP, Greens, Labour and LD’s.

    Only Alba and the Tories are really making any sort of stand. I find it strange that more women aren’t up in arms about this, but we are where we are. Perhaps people who sympathise with “our” take on the issue, but still insist on supporting parties pushing the TRA’s agenda, just think that it’s only one issue among many, or are confident it can be dealt with post indy. It’s also likely a whole lot just haven’t registered it at all as being that central.

    However important you or others think this is as in issue, that doesn’t mean it will be central to “most” voters come election or referendum time does it? They may be more concerned about the economy, the war, covid, franchise.

    I’m not sure folk here can be held responsible for the fact the “lumpen voters” still think “Nicola’s got this”, or even if they’re becoming disillusioned, they look at the yoon alternative and think they’re considerably worse. Many on here regard Sturgeon more or less as the anti-Christ, but it’s not a universally popular view.

  36. PacMan says:

    The issue of woman having no interest in this issue or voting for parties who support GRA is that they maybe simply don’t know about or it is complex a subject to be aware of the implications of it.

    I mean there has been so much going on in the past couple of years that it is easy to let these things slip in under the radar. For myself, I had totally forgotten about the Hate Crime bill until it was mentioned in this article.

    Just a thought on the subject. The results in the mid term election is still not in but I see that Ron DeSantis has been relected which no doubt help with his presidential nomination bid.

    Could his anti-woke/culture wars strategy which he using to gain support for his presidential bid have an effect over here where GRA is weaponised by the Tories both against Labour and the SNP?

    In a way, this would make sense as the Tories competency on the economy as been tarnished and to be honest, the environment we are living in requires new economic thinking which won’t suit the Tories as they are still stuck in the Thatcherism mentality.

    Therefore, wouldn’t a clear divide on social policy be what the Tories would require to differentiate themselves from Labour and in turn would drive people away from the SNP here?

  37. PacMan says:

    Lorna Campbell @ 8:29

    Japanese Manga and Anime has become popular in the west in the past couple of decades.

    In wonder what effect this has had on children where for instance there is a genre in those medium called Gender Bender.

    A character in these manga undergoes a complete or partial physical sex change, whether due to environmental aspects, an enchanted item, a wish that’s been granted or a number of other factors. Depending on the situation, the character might be stuck in their new body, or changed back automatically at some point, or have the ability to change back and forth at will. If a man and woman suddenly share the same body, the Gender Bender tag applies as well.

  38. Tinto Chiel says:

    @RoS: yes, I knew those and found them utterly shameful.

    I made the mistake of switching on my TV a few days ago to hear Biking Harvie say he would not work with Alba/AS because they would not acknowledge the reality of Transwomen.

    I happen to know a genuine “Transwoman” who has gone through the former process of certification following whatever chemical/ surgical procedures were required in the accepted time period. The path has been rather difficult and time-consuming but I believe few people would object to such a process since the person involved had a genuine feeling of having been born in the wrong body.

    I’m afraid the “chicks with dicks” crapola trivialises the whole complicated and difficult question and leaves the field open to the nasty wee types who wish to invade spaces which should always be female-only.

  39. Hatuey says:

    Andy Ellis: “However important you or others think this is as in issue, that doesn’t mean it will be central to “most” voters come election or referendum time does it? They may be more concerned about the economy, the war, covid, franchise.”

    I agree. Insane as this is, I also think there are lots of things that are more important. Maybe if I was a woman, I’d feel differently… ehhhhh, you know what I mean. Fuck.

    The big problem is the MSM, of course. They’re going to let this sneak under the radar because it’s a price worth paying to keep the unionist SNP in power.

    The biggest priority for the Indy movement is some sort of infowars type channel that bangs out videos and puts live broadcasts out every night. Whoever cracks that nut will change everything and go down next to William Wallace in the history books. It’s odd that nobody has done it as I think it could also be a massive money-spinner too.

  40. twathater says:

    @ Liz 5.49pm I commend all the things you and your colleagues are doing Liz, but unfortunately though it should have been done sooner . the BIGGEST problem though is the HIDING of it by all the media, IF the media were to publish the TRUTH about sturgeons perverts and deviants and how they are after our children the lot of them would be out on their ears (and worse) but I will say again REAL WOMEN have to get rid of their empathy and compassion for these pervs and hit them with everything they have and hard

    Many are saying ALBA have the right idea and they are protecting women’s rights, NO they are not, they are still being diplomatic and trying not to alienate the pervs which isn’t working, their biggest gripe is the SELF ID they still believe GRR needs addressed, it does it needs BINNED

  41. Sheepshagger says:

    I reckon this gender woo has been deployed to fragment movements that threaten the establishment.
    The Green movement (outside of the US) is a threat to the fossil-fuel/business as usual interests and has been captured, that Harvey and Slater are more interested in chicks with dicks than the environment is obvious.
    The Sturrells have stacked the SNP NEC with woke parasites who ride roughshod over long standing systems of checks and balances, protocol and accounting.
    That Alec Salmond was the victim of a criminal conspiracy is blatantly obvious, the motivation behind it was that he was a threat to the establishment.
    Jeremy Corbyn was hounded for the same reason and a lot of SNP members were happy to play along, ignoring the fact that he is a decent man.
    I’m toying with voting Tory as the quickest way to destroy both Scottish Labour and the SNP and after a while the people might be so angry they’ll do something about it, other than go comfort shopping.

  42. Effijy says:

    But surely these people like unionist Izzard and fill in a fresh form every
    day and be whatever they like and we can all dance around them.

    The next step of course for those who say they were put here by their mother ship
    A Martian passports and be fed their favourite lizards from plant Zog.

    Don’t you think men with life prison sentences will want a certificate for a women’s prison.

  43. Hatuey says:

    “Even Central Banks Are Buying Gold for the Zombie Apocalypse”

    When Bloomberg is telling you the dollar-dominated world economy is screwed, it’s time start stocking up.

  44. Andy Ellis says:

    When Bloomberg is telling you the dollar-dominated world economy is screwed, it’s time start stocking up.

    Tell you what bud, I’ll start buying gold when your other predictions come true, ‘K?

    How many days til T-Day now….?

  45. George Ferguson says:

    Men haven’t been quiet on this issue. I have offered a substantial donation to their cause and put in supportive comments such as “Tremendous Inspiration”. Which were genuine comments. But it is an argument women themselves have to win on behalf of my wife, daughters and granddaughters. Stu himself last time I checked was a man and has been a great campaigner and advocate for the views of the feminist network and For Women Scotland. This post is evidence of his support.

  46. Hatuey says:

    I haven’t made any predictions, Ellis, the article above is on Bloomberg. More gold was bought in September than is typically bought in the period of a whole year. It’s no secret that gold sales typically go up when the shit is about to hit the fan…

    “Bud” isn’t one of my pronouns, btw…

  47. Hatuey says:

    How petitions work

    “Petitions which reach 100,000 signatures are almost always debated.”

    That puts scotland with its relatively smaller population at a disadvantage, of course, effectively making it about ten times harder to convert a petition that is Scottish-centric than an English-centric petition.

    We should do a petition about the unfairness of the petition system.

  48. Ruby says:

    I give up!

    Surely the most important issue in the comments BTL on an article about the definition of ‘woman’ should be about the definition of ‘woman’.

    George Ferguson says:
    10 November, 2022 at 10:03 pm

    Men haven’t been quiet on this issue

    You are correct George men have got out there baseball bats and black balaclavas and have been threatening women who dare to protest about this issue.
    90% of the trans activists are men and 100% of transwomen are men (without exception)

    I can’t believe what I’m reading BTL on Wings.

  49. Ruby says:

    PacMan says:
    10 November, 2022 at 9:00 pm

    The issue of woman having no interest in this issue or voting for parties who support GRA is that they maybe simply don’t know about or it is complex a subject to be aware of the implications of it.

    Where did you get the information from that women have no interest in this issue?

    Which political party in Scotland does not support GRA?

  50. George Ferguson says:

    @Ruby 11:44pm
    I was talking about real men. Men with a wife, daughters and granddaughters or if they are a single man their respect for women. The vast majority of men in Scotland are in that category. It’s not my responsibility that Nicola is a nutter. Women keep voting for her. Stop voting for her. Simples!.

  51. Geri says:

    Tinto Chiel 7:51pm

    Re PIE

    That’s exactly who they remind me off. Same playbook & lobbying government to get a foot in the door & God help us cause that network goes all the way to the top re judges, police, government & it’s worldwide & worth an absolute fortune in child pornography. Even trying to reinvent themselves as MAPs now & testing public opinion trying to *blend unnoticed* into Gay Pride until they lose thier shit which never takes long.

    This isn’t a Trans agenda. Where did this sudden epidemic spring from?
    Stonewalls mask has slipped a few times now proving it isn’t. It’s access to children & the quickest way to get there is desensitising them young & having them *decide* when they want to be sexualy active & removing any interference.

    Going back to women getting the word out, it’s hard on SM – especially when the Twitter police report in gangs & ppl end up in SM jail or have thier accounts perma banned.

    I asked an SNP activist if self-ID was mentioned on the doorstep? Absolutely not was the reply. Aye. No wonder! They’d get booted out the gate. A classic case of *tell folks nothing until we’re elected*

  52. Geri says:


    What political party doesn’t support GR?


    They’ve agreed to lower the costs of the process but that’s all they’re getting.

  53. Ruby says:

    George Ferguson says:
    11 November, 2022 at 12:12 am

    @Ruby 11:44pm
    I was talking about real men. Men with a wife, daughters and granddaughters or if they are a single man their respect for women. The vast majority of men in Scotland are in that category. It’s not my responsibility that Nicola is a nutter. Women keep voting for her. Stop voting for her. Simples!.

    Maybe as ‘PacMan’ suggested it’s all too complex an issue for women to get their pretty little heads around!

    These transactivists and all the transwomen whether you like it or not are real men and they are all voting SNP.

    Just out of interest which political party in Scotland doesn’t support the GRA 2014?

  54. Ruby says:

    Geri says:
    11 November, 2022 at 12:22 am


    What political party doesn’t support GR?


    They’ve agreed to lower the costs of the process but that’s all they’re getting.

    Are you saying the Tories do not support the GRA 2014?

  55. Geri says:

    Sturgeon is a devious nutter.
    She’s not put self-ID in SNPs manifesto but Harvie has put it in his.
    Obviously a set-up.

    *An absolute commitment to…*


    Apart from GR awareness – Holyrood voting also needs educating. SNP 1 & 2 has allowed this shit to go unchallenged.

  56. George Ferguson says:

    @Ruby 12:30pm
    I am off to bed it’s Friday tomorrow looking after my granddaughter from 9am. A beautiful child. It’s not complex to me. Women should stop voting SNP.

  57. Geri says:

    They don’t support self-ID.

    Truss said Transwoman are not women.

    Oops! Wrong answer. Off you pop, Liz.

    Fastest exit in history.

  58. Ruby says:


    I have no idea what you mean by GR!

  59. Geri says:

    Correct George.

    This one already stopped voting for them & I removed my membership too. I’m not funding this shit but apparently political parties no longer need donations when lobby groups have all the cash they’ll ever need to run a wee diddy administration.

  60. Geri says:


    GR – Gender Reform.

  61. twathater says:

    @ Geri and Ruby if you check back the tories in WM under May and bojo were all for the GRA but their blue rinse brigade were up in arms about it and forced a climbdown, they then went silent about proposing it and let the snp take the flak, but be in no doubt the tories are lukewarm , if you check the responses from all your reps if you emailed them they all, including the tories say they just want minor adjustments and they will vote for it but they cannot vote for it as it stands

    Think about it the tories have been mired in more sex scandals than most of the other parties except the lib dumbs

    The tories just like the rest of the current political parties are infiltrated with these pervs, FFS the Scottish Nonce Party are heading for the gold medal for sex abusers

  62. Geri says:


    Aye, I’m under no illusions they’d be any better. One Tory MP fleeing the scene of an accident has already used the trans card in parly *I ran away cause I’m trans* to the mush isn’t he/she so brave? *Rolls eyes* No. He’s a fkn criminal who broke the law & should be sacked from public office.

    I think it’s already a lost cause, tbh. The powers that be are already captured. I’ve watched enough true crime to know these sickos get a kick out of sharing experiences with minors to getting thier jollies (& heaps of cash) with anything showing dead ppl too which puts a whole new light on the METs *two dead birds* whatap groups & images to them strip searching hundreds of minors without appropriate adult supervision, to giving known flashers a fkn gun & a free pass up the ranks. Judges now too putting known sex offenders into women’s prisons. All thier Christmases have came at once. Change it from within seems the motto.

  63. Ruby says:

    twathater says:
    11 November, 2022 at 1:36 am

    @ Geri and Ruby if you check back the tories in WM under May and bojo were all for the GRA

    What do you mean by GRA?

  64. Tinto Chiel says:

    This track becomes more and more relevant in the crazy world we inhabit:

  65. Linda McFarlane says:

    In the words of Sir Robert Winston, the eminent Doctor who developed IVF, You Can’t Change Your Sex.

  66. McDuff says:

    R o S 3.52pm
    Spot on that is indeed the sturgeon`s agenda.

    Rev you have managed to lay out this insanity in clear and frightening simplicity. Newspapers need to print articles like this but of course they won`t.

  67. cbx says:

    I am not a usual reader of this site – I am a Tory and strong anti succession.

    But I wanted to say thank you for the way you discuss this matter and this insanity, and for those of you forementioned that have been bringing this to the fore.

    Wherever people stand and disagree, we are as one on this 1984 Alice through the looking glass BS.

  68. Sarah David says:

    As far as I know: The Scottish G did not create a separate protected characteristic – meaning that this characteristic cannot be considered in job appointments, for example – for trans women (and men, presumably).

  69. Scunnered says:

    I have been following the erosion of women’s rights for several years now. When I was first “peaked” (by Karen White et al), I was a paying member of the SNP. Not long after the NS video directed at trans members I cancelled my membership. I can’t remember what drove me to finally cancel, I toyed with it for several months. There was so much happening with them around that time when I felt my presence as a GC woman was no longer wanted.

    I was a proud SNP member and independence supporter. In the 2021 Scottish Parliamentary election I really struggled with my vote, it would be the first time I hadn’t voted SNP and it went against everything I thought I’d believed it. But, when it came down to it, I asked myself would I be able to sleep at night if I voted against women’s rights. I realised I wouldn’t so for the first time I didn’t vote for them.

    This brings me to my thoughts on another independence vote (if we ever see it!), I really don’t think I could bring myself to vote for independence under the SNP. The way SNP ministers have conducted themselves in this debate has been crushing. Their views are so far removed from mine that an independent Scotland with them at the helm terrifies me quite frankly.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top