The day before yesterday’s news
Unalert readers will have been startled to read in much of the media this morning – including a front-page piece on the Daily Record – of the “shocking” £100,000 cost of renaming the new Southern General hospital in Glasgow after the Queen.
That, of course, is because all the alert ones read it on Wings two days ago.
It’s not just that the press has been rather tardy in picking up the story. When they eventually did, some of them – with the honourable exception of STV – credited the source of the information as the Scottish Greens rather than this site, although the Greens hadn’t said a word about it until 24 hours after we did.
The party’s website ran a strangely carefully-worded press release giving their reaction to the news “in response to a Freedom of Information request”, without actually saying that they’d made the request in question, which one might normally expect.
The party’s spokesman, ambitious wannabe politician Ross Greer (he’s top of the Green list for West of Scotland at Holyrood next year, and also garnered 804 votes in the East Dunbartonshire seat in this May’s UK general election, losing the party’s deposit by a large distance), has spent much of the last two years publicly smearing and attacking Wings Over Scotland.
Greer was employed by Yes Scotland during the referendum, during which time he upset numerous activists whose characters he didn’t consider personally acceptable by doing everything in his power to obstruct their campaigning for a Yes vote.
So it wouldn’t be particularly surprising that he’d want to avoid giving us credit for the story. But when challenged by a couple of readers last night, Greer went further than the evasive website phrasing, suddenly claiming it had been the Scottish Greens’ FOI request all along and posting what he called an “email chain” as evidence:
Readers may note that the “evidence” is somewhat sketchy. It appears to comprise two internal Green emails, dated 4 August (the day after we published our story), with half an NHS Greater Glasgow And Clyde email address stuck on the bottom.
They might also ponder whether, if asked for evidence that you’d had your own FOI response, you wouldn’t just publish the actual email from NHSGGC – it being the simplest and most comprehensive way of proving your claim – but Greer has refused repeated requests to do so, referring them to the inconclusive image above instead.
Now, it’s entirely possible that the Scottish Greens submitted their own FOI over the renaming. Our own reply from NHSGGC noted that they’d received several requests about the matter from various sources. It’s attached below (click to enlarge).
But in that case it’s strange that Greer wouldn’t just post the equivalent of the image above. It’s weird that the Greens press release would be so ambiguously worded. It’s odd that with such a newsworthy story having landed in their laps on Monday, neither Greer’s nor the Greens’ Twitter feeds would mention it at all until Tuesday teatime, 24 hours after Wings had posted it.
(One would presume NHSGGC emailed everyone their response at the same time, and indeed Greer expressly stated that that was the case.)
Of course, at the end of the day it doesn’t actually matter who gets the credit for breaking the story. Nor will it be of any interest to the vast majority of Scots that a supposedly pro-Yes campaigner and would-be politician has expended (and continues to expend) so much time and effort to attack other Yes activists, including by far the most popular and widely-read Yes-supporting website. It’s he-said-she-said stuff.
But it’s a little depressing that Scotland’s professional media, whose content already comprised 80% stories ripped from rival papers and 18% things people said on Twitter yesterday, is now too lazy and incompetent to even steal the news effectively. We ran the story at teatime on Monday, plenty of time to get something in Tuesday’s papers or evening news bulletins, but readers had to wait until it was TWO days old and the Greens had spoonfed them a pre-written piece.
More than one-third of Scots have given up reading daily newspapers since the turn of the millennium. It doesn’t take much of an investigative journalist to figure out why.
“Not helpful to independence” … oh why bother!
Green with envy Rev LOL.
The Scottish Green’s spokesperson appears to have made an issue out of this. All he needs to do is publish the Scottish Green’s original FOI request.
He seems to enjoy setting his own rules for everyone else to work under.
I wouldnt worry too much Stu. There will be full and fair correct attributions in tomorrow’s papers.
Aye right!!
Trust nobody…unless they have proven they are trustworthy.
Well, who would have thought, just another wannabe trying to grab the spotlight, and succeeding, for all the wrong reasons.
I just hope Patrick Harvie sorts this one out, pronto quick, if not sooner.
I lean towards the Greens but when I see this sort of thing my support starts to wobble.
I found it odd to see that story in the National this morning with no credit to Wings, and noted so in their comments
For the Scottish Greens to present this as their own story is revealing.
I understand they want to maximise presence in use run up to 2016 elections, however for a party I considered joining at one point, I’m disappointed to be increasingly finding their tactics sleekit and lacking in integrity.
Yes, I noticed this on the Greens website — I knew of Stu’s work and so I immediately drew my attention to their use of the indefinite article (“a FOI request”) and thought it churlish of the Greens not to mention WoS.
This is not the first time I have been disappointed in the Greens. My second (list) vote is definitely going to Solidarity.
He is obviously lying … is this really the type of character one would want in the Scottish Parliament?
The official YES campaign were handicapped by having numpties like him on board imho.
I am a green leaning SNP member but would not vote for the Scottish Greens – I simply do not trust them as I think they are supporting independence only to advance themselves as a party – much in the same way Labour have supported Unionism to destroy themselves lol.
Achnababan – “I simply do not trust them as I think they are supporting independence only to advance themselves as a party”
Think you’ve summed up the situation perfectly
The Hypocritical Greens. Total manipulating, malicious liars. Cost the economy £Billions which could be better spent like feeding children. They are beneath contempt.
They are in the Unionists/Landowners pockets, doing their dirty work making people’s lives more difficult.
The green guy could just be a prick and the Daily Retch is already full of shite, the two are compatable!!!
I wasn’t unalert, I was busy…
I was wondering why this wasn’t picked up by the MSM.
The simple fact that they could not be arsed investigating things like this for them selfs tells us all we need to know about the quality of reporting.
Gross Reer, there. “Christian Socialist”. Supposed Yes campaigner and employee of Scottish Greens. Dishing out disgraceful abuse of Wings, alleging “he’s casually misogynist, transphobic etc etc “.
Is this stuff actionable?
What an odd personality he appears to be. Perhaps he is a sleeper agent planted by the unionists….or maybe he is just an eejit.
Publish the email, Greer.
Can we ask this email is released in it’s entirety under FOI ? 🙂
In the past the Greens have always been guaranteed my second vote but no more. This Summer has ended them for me and, I suspect, many others.
On a personal level, I met Greer once. He’s a choob.
“Dishing out disgraceful abuse of Wings, alleging “he’s casually misogynist, transphobic etc etc “.
Is this stuff actionable?”
It would be if I thought he had any money to make it worth bothering.
Looks like the Greens have picked up a real “Wally”, a Kezia or McDougal in the making..!
I suspect this guy could be an expert in getting bad publicity for his party. 🙂
They just can’t bring themselves to accept the quality and growing influence of your work Rev Stu. The archives of this site are now a national treasure.
Based on this tawdry episode and Mr Greer’s high handed attitude towards others….the Greens just lost my other vote.
as someone who admires many green policies, the behaviour of the actual green party continues to make me want to bash my face off my desk.
Ach well there you go. Greens go mainstream re spin and duplicity.Who would have thunk it. What is it with politicos that they have to do this kind of thing? It is petty and stupid and hardly worth getting caught out for. Have they nothing better to do? Are they being “clever” in their own minds?
I think that’s probably it. Legends in their own imagination.
On a lighter note…
link to favrify.com
[…] The day before yesterday’s news […]
Just sent ross a message on facebook…..
Hi Ross is there any chance that you could publish your FOI about the renaming of the new hospital as WOS are apparently defaming you by saying that they were the ones that broke the story. It makes you look like you are lying and trying to score petty political points. Surely you would want to address such a travesty as such matters fester and grow particularly in the lead up to a general election when your opponents might wish to raise it repeatedly to besmirch your credibility.
@Kenny
You could consider giving your list vote to the SSP, go on, make an old man happy 🙂
I said from start greens playing politics and not to be trusted, they will undermine everything to feather their own nest.
Remember they voted against FFA And side with Labour every other day, they are closet unionists and crack pots
I’m sure it must be annoying as a journalist when others steal your story without giving you any credit, but still it’s definitely a good thing that this story is being reported in the wider media.
I saw Greer’s tweets last night and was a bit taken aback to realise that he was coming across as a right britnat zoomer, responding to reasonable questions with personal smears and slurs. He’s done himself no favours, in fact from what I saw it’s possible that he may have damaged the Greens reputation as well as his own,
He was like, “show you evidence? But Wings is an evil misogynistic homophobe.” he sounded exactly like the British Nationalists at the Stronger United twitter accounts.
Have a look at his twitter feed, he came across as a horrible person, Maybe he was being self – defensive but it came across as spiteful, I don’t like the man at all now.
I used to believe that where I am, the Greens were a sensible protest vote. That’s no longer so. I find it sad.
Sneering attitudes like Greer’s can put off people from Indy.
I also met him once…
A name to remember (Ross Greer) come the Election & the name as quikly forgotten. Another wanna be up imself.
Ur you watching Ross, or are you thinking we,ll forget in time,yer cards marked son,well & truly marked.
The Scottish Greens will be looking for our second votes in next year’s Scottish General Election. Due to their underhand dealings lately they won’t be getting mine.
Vote SNP for both list and constituency to keep everyone else out and ensure an SNP majority.
The Herald also carries this story about the £100,00 cost of the remaining and mentions that the information had been released by the Health Board after there had been multiple requests for the information.
Over the last week or two the Herald has published several letters from people, including a doctor who worked there, all complaining about the name. Therefore it is possible that the Herald, and by extension The National, put in an FoI for it.
I would be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt on this.
But the rest….not so much.
Maybe he’s a MI5 plant. Na he’s to stupid to pass the entrance exam. Unless he’s private school educated of course.
The Jury for me is still out concerning the Green Party, they need to step up their game and show more professionalism, at the moment I don’t see it.
Towards the end of the Indy ref campaign, I had a few of WBBeft
I have always had sympathy with Green politics and objectives, and I believe Patrick Harvie to be a decent man. However, my primary political objective is independence and I make my political judgements based on by whom and by which course that might best be achieved.
During the Yes campaign I believed the Greens were firmly on side. Scotland therefore has two main pro Indy parties.
For Holyrood 2016 I had probably intended to vote SNP constituency plus list, but I was willing to get my calculator out, study polling, study the dynamics of this region and consider a Green list vote if that might replace a list Unionist.
The behaviour outlined in this article makes it more likely that my trust to deliver will be vested purely on the SNP.
That said, the real villains in all of this aren’t ‘lose cannons’ among the Greens … the real offenders are the patheticly lazy MSM.
As for the fools who thought the hospital renaming was appropriate in the current political and economic climate, was that naivety or Unionist maneuvering?
They’ve just lost my second vote in next years election.
@AllWingers
You could consider giving your list vote to the SSP, go on, make an old man happy 🙂
Towards the end of the Indy ref campaign, I had a few WBBs left. So I went into Glasgow to hand them out at random.
I saw a Green stall and ask them if they wanted a couple for their table, they refused which I thought was really petty.
They won’t be getting my 2nd vote either.
He doesn’t seem to approve of us either. It seems our satire must fall within politically correct guidelines to be ‘helpful’. We, naturally, couldn’t give a shite what he thinks about us.
The Greens have cost the SNP a lot of lost votes in the fishing industry, the way things have been done since the referendum, with regards to MPAs, SACs and the like harming jobs in areas where fishing has provided employment, many skippers, crewmen and owners believe deals were done to get the Greens onside for the Yes |Campaign and such like, even I have questioned my membership to a party that has targetted Scots fishermen unfairly in a lot of matters
Rev may not be over-fussed about someone stealing credit for his work, but this site rarely gets any credit whatsoever. (If this was academia then we could well be looking at a straightforward case of plagiarism.)
Sometimes I wish we’d kept a tally of how stories/subjects/stats suddenly appear on MSM after appearing here, especially when they’re being trotted-out by BTUKOKers who demonise us all, piously claiming they wouldn’t touch this place with someone else’s.
If Greer doesn’t have the relevant paperwork then Harvie should apologise to Rev/WOS, hoof that botton pronto, and do it all publicly.
Glad to see that your breaking news is now being used by the various sources of news. Shows your ever growing influence in the daily lives of people.
Maybe another FOI request to NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde is in order to discover when the Scottish Greens submitted their FOI request, if they ever did.
I am a green and I’m a little bit disappointed we seem to have lost so many votes here due to one man’s action. The accusation that we are only supporting independence to further our aims doesn’t ring true as 8,000 out of our current 9,000 members joined the party to make Scotland a better place, including independence. The other 1,000 voted to support independence as obviously the right choice for this country before the referendum.
Sorry Rev. I actually think it matters very much who broke the story.
I have watched as other Parties steal SNP initiatives claiming them to be their own ,and this reflects that behaviour. They are like parasites ,hitching a lift on the biggest dog for their own ends.
Stealing the work of another may be the way to go these days,but I was always taught that plagiarism showed a distinct lack of ability to think for yourself.
You had better be on guard Rev ,as no doubt they will try and claim the “wings” site was originally their idea as well.
Patrick Harvie has deservedly earned respect for himself and his party across much of the wider Yes movement, including amongst many members of the SNP. If he wants to retain that he needs to give this puffed-up moron Greer the bullet. And fast.
Thanks for this information Rev Stu,
I had been thinking about lending my list vote to the Greens for SE16. I will definitely not be doing this now.
For me – It is SNP for both constituency and list.
“The party’s spokesman, ambitious wannabe politician Ross Greer…”
Overly generous a description by far, Rev.
My Yes colleagues and I, also in Yes Edinburgh at the time, had many contacts with Ross.
Polite, but always overtly officious, he clearly was playing to an agenda outwith and beyond that of the Yes Campaign.
We also produced, and delivered extensively, our own leaflets with links to Wings, which when brought to his attention by the likes of Hothersall/Scott Arthur, of all people, he was determined, through persistent emails and calls, to ensure that we destroyed as a matter of urgency.
Greer is no more than a freeloader, bouyant on the back of the efforts of genuine activists who still believe in the mission statement of YES.
We all have such freeloaders in our constituencies – we just have to expose them for what/who they are.
Criticism of Greer is definitely germane.
Quite a few other folks on Twitter last night & this morning saying they won’t be voting green @scotgp after this & Greer’s actionable comments
Greens seem to be learning from Labour in having an increasing propensity to shoot themselves in the foot. Greer needs to grow up,join the real world & realise his words can have legal consequences.
I respect Patrick Harvie & Maggie Chapman for their green credentials but would never put them down as being for Indy but if Greer carries on in this fashion, I’ve no doubt he will damage their electoral challenges throughout Scotland.
Wonder if that’s really why he’s in there?
@Dan Huil
Very very droll!
Liked very much
Perhaps it was a “Mis-stating” of the facts, you know like the Liberal Democrats do
They say it aint easy being Green
I’m afraid it is, it’s the easiest political stance to take
trouble is if you’re going to get involved with real politics you’ll get noticed, and when you do, you’ll get scrutinised and if you tell Porkies like this fella, you’ll piss people off
I suppose you could say he’s been successful at that
Telling Porkies is a mistake in this day and age (You get rumbled really quickly) social media, computers, modern stuff
Unless he doesn’t use them of course, do they pollute anything? except maybe, “The Mind” (Deep Eh)
Mr Greer seems more like a Tory than a Green. 5th columnist maybe?
Because I signed a petition that the Greens be included in the Debates here, someone got the idea that I was either a member or interested in becoming one.
Well I have always had my doubts about them, I have always felt that they could be so easily bought out, give them anything and Independence would vanish from their manifesto.
My second vote will go where it normally goes, to the SNP.
Rev, you are light years in front of the MSM and as for the Greens I’m afraid they can forget my 2nd vote too.
Shower of sanctimonious chancers.
Rev, I wonder if you can help. I notice that You said Greer was paid as part of the yes campaign. Is there anywhere I can find published figures of who was paid and how much they were paid. At a grass roots level we have worked our socks off volunteering. I would be interested to see where my contributions ended up.
Also I was going to vote green as my second choice in the Scottish elections , but not now, there have been a few decisions or comments from them recently that has changed my mind. I am know of quite a few other nationalists and yes voters of the same opinion. The greens might not do so well as they think at the next Scottish elections.
pnr: Green with envy, Rev
Quite an arresting combination for Greer, a carrot top.
Ross Greer is only 21 years old, so perhaps does not have the maturity required for such a position. He also appears to be a bit of an ideolog, as he joined the Greens when only 15. Even then, he appeared to be strongly anti-capitalist, which in itself does not make one ‘green’.
I wish folk would stop spouting on about sustainability, when they understand feck all about the subject. It does nothing to forward the green agenda and simply plays into the hands of finance capitalists and their carbon tax.
link to scottishyounggreens.org
It is easy to see why the YES campaign took on a life of its own when folk at the head office were holding back campaigners.
Obviously,I’m wondering now how much,over a 2-3 year campaign,these kind of actions have cost in final percentage of the indyref vote. We don’t need people in leadership positions who may be inadvertently working against what we are trying to achieve for all.
Q: “what were the criteria?”
A: “whatever @MackieJonathan and I decided they were”
The ego has landed….
@Thepnr I very much wish the SSP well and would love to have them sitting in the seats now occupied by the Red Tories at Holyrood. Colin Fox is a very good politician and I like him very much. I rage when I hear people wringing their hands over Labour. Who needs Labour when there is a REAL Labour party out there, the SSP!
There was something else which struck me about this story. It was the Greens suddenly attacking the renaming of the hospital, the expense and the fact that it was the nth building named after, I quote them “Mrs Windsor”.
This is not the usual Green thing, even though it is fully in keeping with what they stand for. I wonder if it is all about a certain maverick who has decided to make a name for himself by passing off Stu’s work as his own scoop?!?
People have been raging about the renaming of the hospital for weeks now. Gail Sheridan wrote about it in the Evening News and was told by unionists to “get back to where she came from” (which is Govan, but I think they thought it was Eire). It has been discussed for ages on Twitter. Yet now the Greens have decided to step in???……….
Scottish Socialist or someone else will get my list vote.
Patrick Harvie came across as a bit of a weasel in the General Election Campaign.
I don’t trust them and they are trying to get popularity on the coat tails of independence movement.
This is all a bit disappointing.Whilst Mr Greer is a high profile member of the Greens,it should be pointed out that not all Greens are pricks.
Disappointed in the National. Not surprised at the Greens, somehow they seem bitter. And what was that guy doing dissing the YES activist! Sounds a tad anti Yes!
I notice someone mentioned their second list vote, please be wary and read up on what that actually means, we need the SNP to not lose any seats.
Given your readership, Stu, Patrick, Maggie or whoever needs to do some damage limitation.
I too intend to give my second vote to the Greens, but if this type of plonker gets in on the list, then I shan’t be happy.
O/T
Regards the second list voting etc, see ScotgoesPop, he has written a good informative article on it, a few weeks ago now.
If you can lie as Greer has and lie again to support the original lie, then you have shown your true character.
At the moment my disgust is reserved for Greer and the Greens are innocent. However if the Scottish Green Party does not deal with someone like Greer swiftly then I will judge them on that failure.
Well, I had pretty much decided that my 2nd vote would be Green. But as a member of the vile Wings Brigade I’m now torn.
People like Harvie and Wightman should definitely be in the Parliament. This Greer character, not so much.
The greens usually get my 2nd preference vote as well, this may change in future if this is the type of character they have, just post your FOI reply and be done with it Mr Greer.
Wings FoI request has a reference number 11033.
Greens email refers to a FoI reference 11034.
It looks like there were at least 2 requests although we can’t see who was behind reference 11034.
I was until last year very interested on the Greens as a viable new option…however..after having first hand experience of some of their very many selfish incumbents i decided to lose my interest entirely.
Nothing to do with WoS or Greer btw but everything to do with the attitude in the referendum of some activists locally who are ‘Labour’ but are in the Greens. Even in the screenshots you show is a ‘Labour man’ (who hates the SNP) but seemingly part of Greer’s set up and under his authority.
I don’t need to tell anyone on here that Greer’s public persona is nosediving by the day.
It’s no wonder we lost the referendum if that was the calibre of people working for Yes Scotland. It must be a kick in the groin for all those hard-working volunteers who slogged their guts out for two years.
I’ve had my doubts about the Yes campaign for months, and this only confirms what I suspected.
A question for those in the know: is it true that Dennis Canavan was deliberately sidelined during the referendum campaign?
I ask this because a year before the vote, I listened to a radio debate on Indy between Ian Murray and Dennis Canavan, and Canavan tore Murray to shreds.
My immediate reaction was for Yes to get Canavan doing more of this, but strangely, he seemed to disappear off the radar…
I contacted Yes Scotland about this, a few months later, but never heard a word back…
Ha Ha! Spot on!
link to youtube.com
The hospital so nice they named it thrice.
@ Thepnr Pray tell who is that Auld Manny to whitch you refer, Awe ffs am still in Spanish mode cause I was talking tae a lot of Nice English People lol,nae worries I get ma Scots tongue shortly.
Thepnr says:
5 August, 2015 at 12:04 pm
@AllWingers
You could consider giving your list vote to the SSP, go on, make an old man happy 🙂
I’ll put a smile on your face, SSP for me.
On the idea of giving a second vote to the Greens, I would say why take that risk?
I hope they take votes away from the other parties, but not at the expense of the SNP – the foremost route to more powers for Scotland.
The result of the previous Holyrood elections can be repeated if everyone who voted SNP/SNP last time does so again.
@ Helena Brown @12.28pm
Yes Helena-I signed the same petition & I’ve been getting their emails ever since (which I did not subscribe to nor would I have chosen to do so). Last one was 31st July. Not impressed so far-too light on content for me to ever consider becoming a member or even voting for them.
I get annoyed with folks who think it’s OK to take my email address & stick it on a list for other purposes than that for which it was provided i.e signing a petition which I chose to do but I certainly didn’t ask to be put on a mailing list. That is an abuse of Data Protection Act 1998
Thought. Someone may already have said this….
Perhaps the MSM wouldn’t run with what was a good story initially because it was directly connected with WoS.
The Greens gave them an excuse to run with it, and those who wished could omit WoS’s part and substitute Greens as the source.
On the spectrum of ‘nasty vile separatists’ as seen by the MSM, WoS is well out on a limb as arch enemy while Greens are ‘soft separatists’ and therefore can be allowed occassional credit!
yerkitbreeks says:
5 August, 2015 at 12:50
I too intend to give my second vote to the Greens, but if this type of plonker gets in on the list, then I shan’t be happy.
:::::::::::::::::::
He is top of list for West of Scotland according to Stuart.
I will not be voting Green if Stuart’s info is correct ………. it is, usually.
At the moment this questions the integrity of Greer as an indivual, but the longer this continues, it will translate into reflecting on the party. Particularly as he appears to be the candidate for West of Scotland. If the party stands by him, they’ll have to publish their FoI to retain any credibility. If they dont, then their collective integrity is going to suffer. And given the Wings readership is in the hundreds of thousands, that may well come to be a pretty stupid and costly decision for them. As others have said, Scot goes Pop have discussed this and its actually the list vote which is critical, and not the constituency vote.
From the tweet exchange above, it seems incredulous that someone like that was in YES HQ. Just as well the grassroots took over.
Another careerist…bless him.
Another thought ….
It’s a wonder they aren’t trying to blame the SNP/SG for the naming costs!
Like … they tried to attribute the Edinburgh tram costs to the SG.
I know I have said it before, but it is a sad state of affairs when a member of the public who does not even live in Scotland, is more politically astute on Scottish matters than any of Scotland’s leading so called journalists and news outlets, who only report anti UK stories when forced to.
Are they really that incompetent, or are they deliberately not looking for any negative unionist stories. It’s funny how they are never slow in talking Scotland down at every opportunity.
Scotland must be one of the most politically repressed and media manipulated countries in the world, which apparently is what we voted for.
You would be forgiven for thinking, they’re taking the piss out of us.
*******************************************************
willie fae kilwinning says:
5 August, 2015 at 1:17 pm
Thepnr says:
5 August, 2015 at 12:04 pm
@AllWingers
You could consider giving your list vote to the SSP, go on, make an old man happy 🙂
I’ll put a smile on your face, SS
*******************************************************
The way this are going Willie they will get my and others first choice vote.
O/T
Hee Hee Hee, they hivnae furgoat about me number 28th letter for Non payment of BBC Licence Fee.
Ah wisht the fekers would get ma name right ITS NO OCCUPIER,but I do know what ah would like to OCCUPY.
Another Burnham vow, like the,
More Powers to Scotland
Autonomous Scottish labour Party
and now er…
Nationalise the railways! Whatever next? 🙁
link to archive.is
BUT
The puppet master says NO!
link to archive.is
Remember … A party united shall never be defeated! 🙂
So the Ref # on the one to Wings is 11033 while the one on the Green “email” is 11034. So was one copy sent to WOS and another to the Greens. The Greens the apparently sat on theirs till after WOS’s story. Is that an attempt at risk free politics? Wait and see if anyone cares then pretend you’ve been on it all the time. Is this the Greens version of a young Jim Murphy?
Greer was the main reason I left what was originally Yes East Dunbartonshire and concentrated my efforts elsewhere in the campaign.
I have no juicy character wrecking titbits, I just thought he was a knob and couldn’t be arsed with him. This just consolidates my original feeling.
One_Scot @1:28
Indeed. Certainly it’s politically motivated and strings are being pulled from somewhere.
Then around that, there are layer upon layer of incompetence, ignorance, thoughtlessness, arrogance, stupidity, laziness and plain old fashioned plagiarism. It gets hard to decide what exactly lies behind each pish poor pro Union anti SG/SNP report!
The net effect is however, clear and consistent. It cannot be undone, it can only refuted, challenged and pre-empted by sites such as WoS.
When do the parties publish their lists of candidates for second preference vote?
I need guidance.
It looks like Ganga Green.
This has to be cut away from the main body or it too will
die off.
If you can back up your claim with the evidence, do so,
or be called a liar, and cost your party half of its potential votes.
I’d assume that as soon as the information was compiled it’d mean any subsequent request could be quickly filled. Might be worth mentioning that the actual cost was more than £100000 as the response admits there are costs it doesn’t give.
As to second votes. There’s two risks in not giving both votes to the SNP. One is that in some cases it means one less seat for the SNP. The second is that it might reduce the percentage in additional seats to less than 50 which will be used to somehow argue against the support for either a full independence referendum or one for devo max by a majority SNP administration at Holyrood.
“Thomas Valentine says:
5 August, 2015 at 1:40 pm
So the Ref # on the one to Wings is 11033 while the one on the Green “email” is 11034. So was one copy sent to WOS and another to the Greens. ”
It may have been the National that had that number.
link to twitter.com
Hood
Was disappointed in the recent announcement by the ssp wrt the scottish left grouping, their first combined announcement was to exclude solidarity
Sad, I know there will be no coming together, but I thought for the good of the yes movement and solidarity and the ssp, there could have been some kind of electoral agreement between yourselves whereby you are not both competing for the same votes. I’m not asking you to kiss and make up, just be sensible. There are some amazing people in solidarity and in the ssp, holyrood would be the poorer if they were not there.
I fell foul of Ross Greer and Debora storr on the bellacaledonia FB page for arguing for them not to stand in the ge against the snp, I said it would damage the yes campaign. And I was right” ask those folks in mundells constituency. The same happened to me on here with the ssp
The only people who were listening to this argument were solidarity.
For the sake of the greater yes movement, solidarity and the ssp must come to some agreement to avoid splitting the vote, votes I might add which will come from people who are neither ssp or solidarity supporters, but Indy supporting voters who want to see the unionists removed. None are interested in left wing bickering.
This either happens or one of you will lose out, at the moment, it looks like solidarity will be the future, simply because of their consistency in supporting the greater cause
Sorry pnr
The second is that it might reduce the percentage in additional seats to less than 50 which will be used to somehow argue against the support for either a full independence referendum or one for devo max by a majority…..
Does this actually mean anything?
There is a classic grovelling letter in today’s Herald from the Chairman of the Greater Glasgow Health Board “justifying,” according to him, the reasons for taking the lamentable decision to spend a substantial sum of NHS money on this title change for the new Glasgow hospital.
How do those people get those plum jobs?
Will he be suitably rewarded?
What do you think?
We should remember that the Greens were divided over independence and former leader Robin Harper was in favour of the Union.
Last month, the sole UK Green MP voted against Full Fiscal Autonomy for Scotland in Parliament.
During the Yes campaign in my part of Edinburgh we never saw anything of the two local Green Councillors at any of the YES work days.
However there were many Green activists who worked really hard but their main spokesperson tried to stop us putting a link to Wings Over Scotland on YES door to door materials but we outvoted him.
Read this and circulate
SCOT GOES POP “WHY TACTICAL VOTING ON THE REGIONAL LIST DOESN’T WORK”
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
Sorry thepnr, it’s SNP/SNP until after Independence. I’m afraid after initially liking the Greens I also don’t think Independence is top of their agenda. I worry about their agenda!
However after Independence, I will give the SSP some serious thought.
Presumably Patrick Harvie will have cleared this up.
Poor Ross, for him congratulating Wings for anything would stick in the thrapple like cold porridge with no tea so he opts for tangled webs.
URGENT MESSAGE TO PATRICK HARVEY & Co:
There were X-amount of green bottles sitting on the wall and if anymore green bottles should accidentally fall there’ll be no green bottles sitting on the wall. Think on, Patrick, think on!
SNP 1 + 2 for me until independence.
The SNP will seek Independence at the earliest and best opportunity it’s in their DNA hard wired always has been
If other Political Parties are serious about Independence they should include it in their Manifesto
If they don’t, do you trust them?
Right now we’re seeing Political positioning by someone in the Greens but
It doesn’t really matter which party, but maybe what matters is Why?
Scottish Politics has become hugely important now, more than ever before, and there will be new faces appearing and new objectives sought
Independence for me comes first last and always and no offence to anyone voting for what they want but you could hit me all day with a hammer and I’ll still never consider voting for anyone else other than SNP until Scotland is Free, after that who knows
The statement from Greer “whatever @MackieJonathan and I decided they were” tells me all I need to know about the man.
The fact that he’s the Green’s No. 1 list candidate for West of Scotland, and they’ve let this tweet stand since 18th March tells me all I need to know about the hierarchy of the Green party in Scotland.
I had a polite discussion a month or so ago on Facebook with a green candidate who had stood in the GE15 and lost. The gist of the discussion was that to me independence was the goal, to him (them) independence would mean their policies had more of a chance of being adopted, i.e. just the means to an end.
So I’m not sure having additional Green’s at Hollyrood will be any better for the SNP than having a unionist party MSP there.
I’m taking no chances my vote will be SNP/SNP.
moodie-vision–fcuking best yet
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
I used to have a lot of sympathy for the Scottish Greens. However with this sort of apparent kiniving and reluctance to produce the REAL evidence I am no longer having much sympathy for the Scottish Greens.
Congratulations Ross Greer … you and your *ahem* mates have done more to damage the Scottish Greens over this issue than if you had appointed Kezia Dugdale your new leader!
Very well done Stuart on your original post, and what an unedifying sight Greer, the Greens and the MSM afterwards presented. I too had noticed their failure to say ‘our FOI’ and the long delay where they supposedly sat on their hands while holding such a scoop isn’t believable and the pettiness and spitefulness of Greer and Leask when challenged on timing I found to be very distasteful. Well done to Wings for breaking such a story.
As for people giving their ‘second’ vote to the Greens, please be careful, for as others have pointed out the list vote isn’t a second preference, nor are all Greens independence supporters. Even voting for the SSP, which in my opinion in light of their behaviour prior to the election is a much more worthy party to support, could still cause the SNP to lose ground. Working out where it would be useful to vote tactically is much more difficult than some green activists try to claim. Until we have independence I feel we have to be as disciplined as the SNP themselves and align behind them in every election to not only keep their existing vote share, but to boost it wherever possible. Imagine the gloating from all unionists if SNP vote share went down. After we have our country in our own hands then we will have plenty of time to decide where we can differ in terms of other policies. Independence has to be the primary objective.
The high point of the Green Party in Scotland has already been reached & they remain almost completely irrelevant.
Scottish seats in the House of Commons 0/59
Scottish seats in the European Parliament 0/6
Seats in the Scottish Parliament 2/129
Seats in local government in Scotland 12/1,223
Not even a bucket of Viagra could help the Greens penetrate Scottish politics any deeper.
Might I suggest, that readers let Ross Greer have his 60 seconds of fame & then release him quietly back to the job market where his clumsy diplomacy might land him a role in a call centre in Greenock to sell stuff you really don’t need.
Stuff just like the Green Party.
Yes. It means that if the vote for list members is less than 50% the unionists will insist that that’s a true reflection of the SNP support. That will then be used to justify opposition to any referenda called.
For example assume there’s a 60% support in a given region so the natural assumption is that the overwhelming majority of seats will go to the SNP. If, knowing that to be true, over 10% give their second vote to another party that probably won’t make any difference to the seats gained. What it will do, however, is allow a claim of les than majority support.
I’ll be SNP/SNP myself next year. There is no other way to go, I want our independence first and foremost.
Patrick Harvie is grand, no doubt, but I think he suffers from ‘arrogance’ too. I felt and told him at my first, ever, gathering of ‘new members’ who had joined the party after the ref, that if it wasn’t for the SNP their membership figures would not have risen as fast as they had, that this was happening on the back of the No vote.
I had the distinct impression that he seemed to think it was so wonderful that so many people had joined and that it was based on some sort of wave of ‘green’ activism.
He stated during his wee speech that he didn’t like Alex Salmond, and I recall thinking ‘wtf, if it wasn’t for him you wouldn’t be seeing this surge in your membership’. I didn’t like the ‘in joke’ laughter emanating from ‘in crowd’ as he mentioned this. I also thought it was a completely inappropriate comment and he’d made an arse of himself by even saying such a thing, especially on the back of what had just happened with the No vote. (I was in grief and taking everything very personally at the time, my sensitivities were raw).
Since then, irrespective of the bombardment of emails from them, I’ve never attended another meeting. I don’t intend renewing my membership either.
Nothing to do with the Greer nonsense, but in a way it confirms my feeling of a certain ‘culture’ within the Greens wherein they ‘capitalise’ on the wave of others efforts and make out that those efforts were solely their own.
Of course in hindsight I shoulda gone to specsavers and joined the SNP. But felt the ‘Greens’ reflected my political outlook more closely at that time, and also mistakenly believed that independence was uppermost with the Greens, which it isn’t. It’s all a journey we are on, and open to direction changes along the way. But the chief destination for me now is Independence, nothing less, no distractions.
did he get lost at the sign saying Labour party join here?
I hope Patrick gives him a clout silly wee laddie, but it will still not change my view about the greens,i hoped they would bounce after the indyref swell to their membership but they are still out there on the fringes and seem to have made very little progress.
Not enough for me to justify my second vote to them regardless of whats happened.
Oh and great work Rev on blowing the story wide open just a shame those excuses for journalists couldnt give some credit where credit is due.
lol but i bet they were raging to find out it was one of yours,i wonder if they knew or if they were so lazy they didnt bother to check ? lmao
Ive also had to reconsider my second vote. Patrick Harvie made all the right noises during the referendum but I now feel they treat the Scottish Parly as a means to their own ends and not that of the best interest of Scotland.
My second vote will be going to an independence party with left leanings.
As a young journalist, I was taught: Don’t lift a story which has already appeared elsewhere unless you can move that story on somewhat. A new quote, or a different angle is fine, simply re-hashing someone else’s already-published story is a no-no.
Clearly, this sound, old-fashioned advice no longer holds good in the media – which perhaps explains why newspaper circulations are falling.
Modern journalists – lazy, spoiled brats many of them.
I think all independence supporting folk should stay clear of the Greens – if they get more seats and some political momentum I suspect they will stab the SNP and Independence movement in the back at their time of choosing by settling for ‘devo max’ or some such thing. (Especially if Trident is not renewed)
Someone mentioned Andy Wightman – who is, I believe, standing as a candidate for the Greens.
I have known Andy for over 30 years and although he is quite radical in terms of reforming land ownership in Scotland I have never heard him utter a single word of support for Independence (even after I have plied him with drink.
If you get the chance ask him….
Hood, I had a look at that pic from the National on Stu’s twitter feed. There is no reference on it. It seems that their FoI was dismissed because the request was so wide ranging, it would have cost more than £600. They instead were given the standard response which must have been compiled following an earlier FoI, possibly/probably Stu’s. From the earlier article, link to wingsoverscotland.com, it seems Stu’s FoI request was made “a few weeks ago” (actually 6th July from the pic above), which received a response on the 3rd Aug,wheras the National’s request was 29 July, with a 4th Aug response. As for the Greens, the only date in sight is 4th Aug with the email exchange. If Stu’s FoI was 11033, and the Greens are claiming theirs is 11034, where is the National’s ref no?
I echo the earlier sentiments. Forget the greens as a list vote – only a SNP majority can guarantee another referendum. Independence first, then everybody can go their separate ways.
SNP/SNP. I did toy with the idea of Green for list but why dilute the message?
Full independence, then we can sort out whether our own country should have a right, centre, left or green hue. At the moment we get what we are given from WM, and it’s brown, smelly and doesn’t taste of Marmite!
@frogesque
Is “marmite” rhyming slang?
SNP/SNP for me too. You know it makes sense!
Regarding voting Green in 2016.
Search online for Scottish Green manifesto 2015.
Nothing in there re-Independence – sure- some decent policies but more about “more powers to the SG”.
Sorry smith commision said the same-Boak.
So for now, for me, it has to be SNP for 1st and 2nd vote.
Sorry don’t know how to link a PDF file to here.
I have always considered the Greens as soft yessers! Could never see Harvie holding a Saltire and being passionate about Scotland. Not that you have to waive flags to support independence.
But you need a certain level of patriotism and pride to want to be a nation. Just doing so to get rid of nuclear weapons is a bit introspecive and subjective. The first reason anyone should want independence is nationhood. All the other stuff comes with being independent.
He typifies the right on politically correct civic nationalist, as they are embarassed to admit any patriotism to Scotland. They disguise it under a banner of social responsibility and collctivism.
I want all the good things like equality and shared wealth. But first and foremost I want independence because I am Scottish and don’t deny it.
Yes, rethinking my proposed SNP/Green also.
O/T
spotted this link on iScot magazine for a guy who could do with some Wings
link to crowdfunder.co.uk?
(hope I’ve pasted that right – looking over shoulder for hammers)
@Schrödinger’s cat
Glad to see you have your thinking cap on. Unlike Labour the SSP have principles, not perfect I’ll admit but with care and affection can be molded.
@Flower of Scotland
No problem FoS, I of course see things from a different point of view. There is no doubt in my mind at least that the SNP will have a majority in 2016 just with the constituency vote alone.
My main objective is to rid Holyrood of as many Unionists as possible and the only way to do that is for SNP supporters to vote for another pro Independence party with their second vote.
Is it possible that using your list vote wisely could mean no more Ruth Davidson or Willie Rennie. The answer is Yes, of course it could as both these chancers were elected on the list votes.
Whatever, of course vote SNP/SNP if thyat is your want, however I think we should never ignore an opportunity to deliver a fatal blow to the opposition!
Your vote counts, use it wisely for maximum effect.
We Wingers met Patrick Harvie some time ago in Freedom Square,feker wouldnt Take a Badge or donate to Foodbanks,I offered him a free SNP badge,smirky wee cunart.
K1 says: “Of course in hindsight I shoulda gone to specsavers and joined the SNP. But felt the ‘Greens’ reflected my political outlook more closely at that time, and also mistakenly believed that independence was uppermost with the Greens, which it isn’t. It’s all a journey we are on, and open to direction changes along the way. But the chief destination for me now is Independence, nothing less, no distractions.”
I’ve never understood why some pro-indy folk chose the Greens as their home, rather than the SNP, other than a sort of misguided notion that the Greens were just a more idealistic version of the SNP.
I think a lot of young folk joined because of a feeling that the SNP are too mainstream, or they think they’re too good for the SNP (especially “Not A Nationalist” types – aye, sure you aren’t…) and the Greens are a younger, cooler alternative – that’s certainly a draw for the kind of person who allows their politics to be defined by the Twitterati.
But for anyone whose main priority is independence, it simply doesn’t make sense to join any party other than the SNP.
The Greens’ main objective is dealing with climate change. If that’s your main priority, then join them. If you would put Green issues ahead of independence, then join the Greens. If you would be prepared to forego independence because the UK suddenly decided to elect a Green government, then join the Greens.
Otherwise, it makes no sense to join anyone but the SNP.
And that all applies to voting, as well. The Greens are not a wing of the SNP, they are a separate political party with their own objectives, several of which clash with the SNP (sometimes just for the sake of having differences, some might suggest).
Lollysmum I do agree, they should take it in context. I got a moving message from Ed Miliband because I asked Wings questions of his Party Reps, had to disabuse them of any idea I wanted to be in Labour considering like you I am a member of the SNP.
Let us not divide ourselves from the Green party over a FOI, the Greens stood with us on the independence vote, divide and conquer is the motto of the British empire, and the odd individual however familiar they may seem to us, or idious for that matter, cannot be allowed to sway us.
The REAL problem is that Ross Greer is top of the Green’s West of Scotland list which means he has a very good chance of becoming an MSP next year. Someone so patently dishonest who puts his childish grudges ahead of the interests of his party and the indyref movement is a disaster waiting to happen.
Alan McKenzie – Ref 11077. Not on document but part of file name. Assuming that’s the same thing. I think you’re probably right that NHSGCC just put all the information into one FOI and sent it out to everyone who asked.
Like many here I’ve long been suspicious of the motivation for the Scottish Green’s pro-indy stance. I was all set to give them my list vote in Glasgow next May, until I found out they were pointlessly standing 30 candidates in the General Election (did any of them save their deposit?)
This Greer farce makes it even less likely they’ll get my list vote now.
Tend to agree with the SNP 1st and 2nd votes – although I do have time for Patrick Harvie and Andy Wightman (who I think is on the Green list for Lothians – a doughty land reform campaigner who would be a good addition to the Parliament)
However, that nugget above…Nah!
Re voting in the Holyrood election next year.
If you are an SNP supporter, you vote SNP for both constituency and region.
If you voted SNP/SNP in the 2011 election, you vote the same again.
If you are a Solidarity or SSP supporter AND your party is NOT standing in your constituency but is standing for the region, then you can ‘lend’ your constituency vote to the SNP, whilst voting SSP or Solidarity for the region.
There is absolutely no point in an SNP voter NOT voting SNP/SNP.
And here’s the link that “Another Union Dividend” gave up above.
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
Time to make my position clear re the Scottish Green Party.
Before I moved to Brechin I lived in Edinburgh and was a member of the SGP but not particularly active. The antics of Robin Harper and others hacked me off so I let my membership lapse.
During the referendum campaign I got to know many local members of the SNP and some in the SGP. A large number of the SNP members were more clued up on environmental issues than those in the SGP – it was said by several that come independence they would join the Green Party.
I have had email contact with Patrick Harvie over his dismissal of Wings to no avail. The local SGP held a meeting which members of the SNP attended and were patronised, I could list more…
Like many I was angered at the decision to stand candidates for the GE and so helped the SNP. Recently I tried to explain to the local SGP that we should be aiming to get list votes from Labour, Lib Dem and Conservative supporters, two agreed with me the rest did not. My point was that the SGP should position itself as a party that was for local enterprise, self-sufficiency, stewardship of the countryside and other small ‘c’ conservative concerns.
I am now, as a member of the SNP developing ideas and policies that are to the benefit of the environment and have more chance of seeing these adopted than if I were a fundamentalist middle-class socialist tree-hugger, not every green can be described as such by any means but a significant and vocal number can.
It should be obvious to any green politics supporter that independence is totally in accord with green aims and should be a priority for a number of reasons.
RE: AMS and the second vote.
I am no expert in this system, but let’s assume that the SNP win ALL the constituency seats. Unlikely, but if recent polling is accurate, not impossible.
Those that want to split the vote (i.e. SNP/A N Indy Party) claim that this is likely to produce MORE indy supporting MSPs than SNP/SNP voting. Does this stack up? Perhaps it does but ONLY if the SNP list vote is less than 50%. Is this likely? Again polling suggests that it could be higher and the pro-Union parties seem to be doing their best to push people into an SNP2 scenario.
There are 73 Constituency MSPs, so a full sweep grants the SNP a majority outright. In each regional area this would mean the SNP struggling to add to this compliment, but if the polling among the other parties is as predicted, then I still calculate that they could pick up an additional 8-12 MSPs.
This would be another historic result, so huge caveats apply, but SNP2 is NOT a waste in my view. UNLESS – and here is where we need to hold fire until the manifestos are produced – the other Indy-Sympathetic parties are unequivocal in having support for another indyRef explicitly in their manifestos.
Personally I would favour SNP2 until after Independence, then my vote would be available.
I see Greer has tweeted a copy of ‘his’ email requesting the information from the hospital. Unfortunately all the details of who the email is from are redacted so no-one can actually see who submitted the original request.
Suppose we’ll just have to take his word for it then.
So the Greens are the new LibDems?
I wonder how come this Greer person was employed by Yes Scotland since the Greens left and helped form RIC. There he must have been, the token Green in the village, while everyone else was hanging out in RIC. Those of you who just stuck with Yes Scotland can slightly be forgiven for not thinking the Greens were Yes, because you won’t have encountered them. Some may even have chapped your door on behalf of RIC but unless you peered closely at their badges wouldn’t have known some were Greens. I certainly know Green people here in Dundee who worked hard for Yes. In RIC.
As for officially, last Dundee RIC meeting Maggie Chapman came, officially as co-leader of the Greens to talk. She was welcomed as ‘one of us’ because she is. Patrick Harvie is too. His opposition to FFA is because he thinks it would be unworkable and unstable and not a patch on Independence, not because he is not Yes. And finally, during the referendum we in Dundee RIC were asked to deliver Green Yes leaflets, which we happily did. They carried the official Green party logo and listed Green reasons to be Yes.
The Green party was:
1. In RIC, they still are.
2. The leadership is Yes.
3. They came out as a party for Yes and campaigned on that basis.
The kneejerking for one jerk here is silly and juvenile. I’m not in the West so I can vote Green on the list without having to worry about electing the immature young man. Don’t let one jerk split the Yes community. We are better than this, or we damn well should be.
Well said Paula rock will be pleased. Still on holiday in yorks
Here here mg
My biggest issue with this character is that he seems censorious and not a little authoritarian in his outlook.
Very much of the ‘I protect your right to free speech, so long as you agree with everything I say’ school. Wretched mind-set, that one, as it merely indicates that you are not as open-minded as you claim. Lot of that in some circles, where they pretend they are having a ‘debate’ on an issue but in fact exclude anyone who does not meet up to their exacting standards.
I prefer to acknowledge that even the people I dislike most can sometimes make valid points. Pretending otherwise is the behaviour of a twat.
What Paula said
The most recent polls are saying that the SNP will on 60% of the vote win every constituency seat.
Great news but there will still be Unionists like Ruth Davidson and wee Wullie in Holyrood because of the list vote.
If you really want rid of the Unionists in Holyrood then you must use your list vote wisely and vote for a party other than a unionist one.
I’ll be straight and upfront SNP/SNP is fine by me. Thinking about it rationally though I see a wasted opportunity. Let’s rid Holyrood of all Unionist parties.
Your vote, your choice.
Indeed,
P.Harvey did a fair job pre ref 1..
..although he blundered on radio about a week before in relation to the Queen…
Can’t recall the trap he fell into but his rambling developed into sanctimonious anti monarchy statements.
Such views from a prominent party leader weakened the YES VOTE.
Shucks.
I was seriously thinking of voting Green for the list next year, but I’m much less inclined to now, after seeing the quality of their candidate for the West of Scotland. It appears there are shallow, careerist, wannabes in the Green Party – whoda thought it!
I have many green sympathies and even considered joining the party. However, my priority is to see Scotland independent, and this requires another SNP majority at Holyrood, with NS at the helm. There is no way I could jeapordise this by voting for such a shady character, who seems destined to trip up big time, sooner or later IMO.
‘There is absolutely no point in an SNP voter NOT voting SNP/SNP.’
That was always my thinking. I thought the idea was to get as many SNP MPs as possible. Why an SNP voter would want any different does mystify me.
Greer is simply being true to an environmentally friendly policy of Reduce, Re-use & Re-cycle.
He’s re-used & is re-cycling a Wings original article.
It used to be known as plagiarism, now it’s Green.
Thepnr 5.22
As far as I’m aware only one poll put SNP on 60%.I stand,as always,to be corrected but I think polls have generally been in the low to mid fifties on the constituency vote.
Ross Greer’s shameless theft of someone else’s work to further himself.
Straight out of Gordon Brown’s book.
Are you sure you are in the right party, Ross?
What the pnr said
Um low to mid 50s
That is not a landslide
It’s an earthquake
In the Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale constituency for the General Election, everyone’s favourite Tory in Scotland, Mundell, won with a majority of 798 over the SNP’s Emma Harper. The Scottish Greens’ Jody Jaimeson got 839 votes. Fair enough, that’s democracy, and all that.
Yet, the Scottish Greens must have known that constituency was going to be a tight call between Mundell and Harper. As they say they are on the Scottish independence side of the political equation, and as they would have been aware that they weren’t going to attract too many votes, could they not have pulled out of this one constituency to give the pro-Scottish independence SNP as much chance as possible of achieving the win – a win for their partners-for-independence which they say is central to their policies?
I’m not saying that the Scottish Greens receiving 839 votes was the reason that Mundell won, and, of course, had they not contested the seat, those votes could well have been spread around between all other candidates, but if – and it’s a big if – those 839 votes had gone to the SNP they would have won by 39 votes, a slim win, but still a win.
Whatever, it’s in the past now. Still, it’s food for thought if nothing else.
@Paula Rose
Thanks. Good post.
I’m 2 X SNP until independence.
PS: Footie link now working here. 0 – 0
link to neolive.net
Apologies for being a dumb fifer, but I’m surprised so many were not intending SNP/SNP.
Am I failing to understand some basic aspect of the Holyrood election?
Is their a scenario where it would be better not to vote SNP/SNP?
As an avid Wings reader I take in the comments as much as the articles; I’m epileptic and spend some fairly regular time in recovery after debilitating seizures and feel I know some posters and the Rev even though I have rarely posted! I mention this because I am also a Scottish Green supporter who voted SNP in GE2015. I notice in most posts here the Scottish Greens are referred to, as they often are, as ‘the Greens’, missing a key point in the party’s commitment to the Yes movement, in that it negotiated a separation from its sister party, unusual in ‘globally concerned’ green politics, to support the movement. Robin Harper may not have been a supporter of independence but I believe P Harvie is; there is room for a spectrum of opinion within a party isn’t there? In the way that A Salmond represents the right of the SNP and N Sturgeon the left. Eck said a future Scotland would keep the queen, I can’t think of anything more reprehensible as a symbol of former colonialism in a future sovereign nation and think many SNP supporters might feel the same, it doesn’t mean they now distrust the party!
Those now speaking about transferring their second list vote to one of the other left leaning parties based on the poor, immature political machinations of Ross Greer, who admittedly needs to be sharply dealt with by the party in my opinion too and should not top the list anywhere if this is his modus operandum and its impact, is that not a bit of ‘weathercockism’ with green principles? There are no other parties, anywhere on the spectrum, standing signpost like on green issues, it’s why a Scottish Green Party is there!
With Cluff Natural Resources browbeating the SG, Ineos holding their fracking licences for 30 years against the backdrop of cuts to renewables subsidies despite the potential in the renewables industry in Scotland and the investments already made, numbers employed etc, who else is going to make sure economics stay on the right side of the environmental science? When the SG called for evidence and research into alternatives to the not fit for purpose Council Tax, the Scottish Greens funded A Wightmans Land Value Tax research. Marry that to the type of research done by Prof Sandilands into zero rating income tax against LVT in a beneficent tax system and the type of reasoning which would shift a Scotland ‘thinking as if it was in the early days of a new nation’ into a sustainable tax base, with powers already there! The type of FFA being negotiated at WM, as per the vote mentioned above too, would shackle a new Scotland to a malign tax cycle which would lead to later cycles of boom and bust when something better was on offer(which Stiglitz, Krugman et al recommend as a more beneficent tax base and sustainable alternative to debunked austerity models!)…
There’s far more on offer from the Scottish Greens than Ross Greer’s Twitter feed and I think the movement needs a green voice. Every party’s had their zoo ears to be called to account, zooming in different ways, how the party deals with them, I’ll admit is the test of their mettle, over to you Patrick…
Achnababan, near the top of the thread, has prety much nailed it:
“I simply do not trust them [the Scottish Greens] as I think they are supporting independence only to advance themselves as a party”
From what I’ve read here today, I’m now convinced to vote SNP/SNP and will make sure my nearest and dearest do the same.
At times the internet is a wonderful thing.
Doug, some of us were just politically naive, or politically disengaged for such a long time, the ref and the Rev brought us in from the cold. I’ll never be a ‘geek’ certainly, but now I’ll never be so naive again.
Also, I’m too old to be young, but I’m still cool 😉
Today’s Daily Mail:
“… in a Freedom of Information request disclosed yesterday”
Yes, saw that in today’s Mail and immediately thought that, more than likely, it was the FoI requested by Stu. When they didn’t disclose that it was their own FoI, or named who or what had made the request, I just knew it *had* to be the one made by Stu and shown on WOS!
The slimeballs of faecal matter at the Mail will readily steal an exclusive from Wings without naming the source, yet at other times they are all too ready to insert Wings into a headline and construct an article of lies and smears about Stu, the site and those who comment BTL. They are at the very lowest level of all the sewer-dwellers which comprise the corrupt right-wing media of the ready-to-collapse, teetering-on-a-precipice construct still laughingly known as the UK.
have just (1815hrs) received a screengrab from ross greer showing the scottish green party’s own FoI request.
why he could not or would not provide it last night i can’t say.
why the media chose to delay their stories i can’t say.
cheers.
Yes, the Greens have lost my second preference vote because of this ( and enduring Fluffy as my MP, of course) – as others say SNP/SNP until we have independence.
@ K1 – coolness like greenness is a state of mind, as is being a Scot.
‘Is their a scenario where it would be better not to vote SNP/SNP?’
Yes, if you want to protect the union.
I’m a member of the 2X S.N.P. vote club next May. This is mainly because being of independent soul, if not of mind 😀 , I want independence and until I see my country fully independent from the criminal element that exists within Westminster I will continue to be 2X S.N.P. Sorry Thepnr. 🙁
I also have a second rerason for being so minded in my voting preferences … I live in the constituency that currently holds the regretable honour of being the seat of Fluffy! 🙁
We currently have the poisioned dwarf as our constituency M.S.P. and I want to do everything I can to ensure that neither her or any Labour List candidate returns to Holyrood next May.
We have a meeting at the end of the month to confirm Joan McAlpine as our constituency candidate. Like a few Holyrood constituencies Joan was the only candidate for selection so I don’t think the meeting will be long on arguments from other candidates. 😀
@ Linda McFarlane
Thanks for the post about the Crowdfunder for Boorach. He’s a Winger who could do with our help. He lives in a converted van which has just about reached the end of its road & he’s about to start chemo for lung cancer.
Please help if you can
link to crowdfunder.co.uk
As the old saying goes, success has a thousand fathers but failure is an orphan.
Posting, BTW, from the Hermitage Hotel St Petersberg so a test of sorts.
Donated to Boorach Crowdfunder CMon Wingers get behind this crowdfund He,s wan o oor ain.
Good on You Kevin Kane for helping Boorach.
PR, true dat 🙂
OT, but relevant to much of the discussion about voting.
I think it’s important that anyone with a serious interest in Scottish politics FULLY understands the way in which seats are allocated in the second list vote. My guess is a lot of people don’t quite get it.
It’s actually quite easy to understand, but personally I can’t see how you can make predictions easily.
We use a D’Hondt method. Simply, the number of votes cast for each party are divided by the number of seats won so far plus one. This calculation is repeated over and over where each time the winner from each calculation gets a seat.
Next iteration, the previous winner is at a disadvantage because they have just won a seat and therefore the formula gives a lower result with the division. Another party may, or may not win next time.
This goes on until all seats in the region are allocated.
The BIG twist in the Scottish system is the results from the constituency vote in that region are included at the start of the D’hondt calculations.
This is why a party which gets a lot of constituencies needs a high list percentage to collect a few more seats.
Put simply, if the SNP do really well in the constituency vote, and win most seats, they will need around 50% list percentage to get more seats. Also, anyone getting less than about 10% ( I guess) will get no list seats.
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Good description from the BBC …
link to archive.is
Paula Rose says:
“Time to make my position clear re the Scottish Green Party.”
Finally admitting that you are indeed a hypocrite.
You had ample opportunity to make your position clear a long time ago but refused to do so.
I think like Craig Murray you have moved to the SNP out of opportunism rather than principle, but I may be wrong.
As Ken500, myself and others have been saying for a long time, the Greens cannot be trusted.
SNP supporters wanting independence must give both their constituency and list vote to the SNP in 2016 to ensure an SNP government.
Don’t be duped by the Greens. They follow Lib Dem tactics.
Paula Rose’s hypocricy now exposed:
Paula Rose,
“@ Cadogan Enright – think we’ll go with unionist troll.”
Paula Rose,
“Rockcock as usual.”
Paula Rose,
“Rock – do you really want to go through this all over again? I will if you like,”
You could have two days ago if you wanted to.
But you didn’t because you know that you are being a hypocrite by cheering the election of 56 SNP MPs on this site while defending the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP.
If the SNP landslide had not been so massive, the Greens’ vote splitting policy could well have let more than one unionist MP to survive.
@ george 6.41pm
Is that the FoI one dated 4 Aug?
Date at bottom of nhs FoI release re: renaming is 31 July.
Seems many requests were made, but some beat others to the publishing punchbowl 😀
@Rock honey – go do something else other than waste our time here.
Most Greens I met during the Yes campaign worked very hard for independence but I never trusted their leader: he could rarely resist a pop at AS and I eventually thought he had piggy-backed on Yes to gain electoral advantage. I don’t think he views independence as essential to the future, so enough said.
The strength of Yes came from the roots, not the upper echelons. My wife and I met Blair Jenkins on the Saturday before the referendum: he seemed a nice guy. He told me, what with the numbers who had signed the declaration and the RIC registrations, that he was sure we would win. I believed him. Imagine how I felt on Black Friday. Now I just feel he was out of touch, but I may be naïve.
Mabel and Big Jock summed it up pretty well, I feel.
Once independence has been achieved, we can go our separate ways but I’m not risking a drop in the SNP vote next year, which will be seized upon by our opponents. AS seemed to have a high regard for Colin Fox and I would consider voting SSP again in the future but it will be after independence, on the other side of bliss.
Glad Mr R. Anderson is back, or is it the Santa Ponsa Kid now?
@ Rock for those of us in the know Paula Rose is a SNP member,except you lol, you were played like a clockwork toy.
Must have taken them a while to track down where they had put the response from the NHS. No wonder, with all the names redacted, perhaps they forgot who had it.
Interesting that the three responses we’ve seen are all different, Stu’s one, the National one,(on wings twitter) and the green one, same text different format, with all identifying names redacted. Odd.
You know those labels on food that state “free trade”, “organic” etc? They shouldn’t be there – produce should be labelled “unfairly traded”, “pesticides used” etc – in the same way policies should be of benefit to us all unless labelled otherwise i.e. Of only short-term benefit.
And the moral is, if you mess with WoS, you’re in for a bumpy ride. Everyone knows how shit UKOK hacks really are.
Paula Rose has no credibility.
Her previous comments are on the record on this web site.
She should have clarified her position a long time ago instead of attacking, ridiculing and patronising others.
Her sycophants Thepnr, Brian Doonthetoon and ronnie anderson who joined her in her attacks on me must be feeling quite stupid now.
Do not trust the Greens. They are exactly what the Lib Dems were for so long – political opportunists.
Give maximum support to the SNP in 2016 by giving them both votes.
I want independence sooner rather than later.
I support many Socialist and Green policies but that will only become a real choice AFTER independence.
Hi Rock.
How often did you meet Paula Rose and speak to her, at the 8 WOS get-togethers, that have taken place since April 2014?
How often did you meet her, when she was manning the WOS stall at the various rallies that have been held in Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh, since the referendum?
Are you merely an armchair warrior, who doesn’t dare to exit the front door?
You’re really building a wee LIST of your own, iye? Glad I’ve been included. To be on the same LIST as Ronnie and Paula Rose is honour indeed!
You’ve been played hook, line and sinker and you don’t like it. No offence…
Went on link to twitter.com , never met him and he is slagging me of for reading WOS, the guy appears to have problems with the human race.
I’m with Achnababan and Paula Rose. I’ve never detected any sincerity among the greens regarding independence. Events during the SNP minority govt and events in recent months have confirmed to me that they cannot be trusted.
Once we have independence, then maybe SSP or more likely Solidarity, which would be my current preference – SSP are too quick with grudges and likely to continue the splits that have historically so characterised the left. Sorry PnR, I look for inclusivity and compromise.
As per usual if anyone wants to have an argument please join me on the Quarantine thread – this is the current thread read by many – or is that the point?
Famous, or rather notorious, Paula Rose quotes:
“@ Rock – do you have a problem with democracy?” [Paula supporting the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP]
“So sad to read that Rock and deewal are the dad’s army of the UK – unless they can convince us otherwise.” [Paula supporting the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP]
“I’m sorry but I think Rock exists to disrupt our unity of purpose” [Paula supporting the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP]
“Not sure that these long gaps called Rock really work as intended – occasionally two or three words actually make sense. Most do not”
“Rock honey – are you cognisant with the word “pish”?”
“Listen – Rock is like a Deerhound, big and shaggy but a dear hound nevertheless, he will keep barking at me and when we get a space again off the main thread I will gladly play ball”
“–”Fred – Rock took against me a while back, as yet he/she has run away from all invitations to debate away from main threads in rooms on wings where we could have a debate.” [Paula refusing to criticise the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP]
“Hungry ravenous eater of steak here – where’s wee Rock?” [Paula Rose a meat eating Green]
@ Rock awe am mortilly offended you didnt see fit to put my name in capital letter. Ladys dont wear syco pants, Paula Rose does a nice line in frilly nicks & no Ultimo.
ronnie anderson,
“@ Rock for those of us in the know Paula Rose is a SNP member,except you lol, you were played like a clockwork toy.”
Ronnie I am not as easily duped as you are:
ronnie anderson,
“@ Rock Would you stop your disrespecting A Winger ie (unionist troll) Natasha is well known personaly by many Wingers.”
Natasha,
“I can do without transphobic comments from ill-educated people.” [Possible unionist troll leaving the site in a huff after calling the Rev. Stuart Campbell “ill-educated”]
Rock, you really are becoming boring now. You really felt the need to trawl (troll?) the site for Paula Rose quotes?
Do you not believe she is a member of the SNP?
Get a life.
You are (purposefully?) diverting this page.
New readers – please excuse the strange conversation at this stage in the thread, do comment and be part of this site.
While this particular individual appears to have issues with fair chunks of the Yes side overall I have no problem with the Greens. If there is another move fora referendum I expect they will back it and that is fine by me.
On broader issues of environmental matters we need a voice of caution and the Greens provide that. So while it is amusing that a particular known grump doesn’t want to acknowledge Wings I don’t see any great point in firing pelters at the Greens or the SSP or the National Collective or any other fellow travelers. We have enough targets to concentrate on with the Red, Blue and Yellow Tories.
Talking of which, Greg Moodies cartoon over on Bella is particularly mental this week. The Ian Murray character is brilliant.
Hi Mr Rock!
Sycophant? Who me? LOL
ronnie anderson,
“@ Rock for those of us in the know Paula Rose is a SNP member,except you lol, you were played like a clockwork toy.”
No SNP member in their right mind would pretend to be a Green on this website, defending the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP to help the Tory Viceroy of Scotland get re-elected.
Stop trying to re-write history. Not all readers are as gullible as “Tory embracing” Thepnr, “Sovereign” Brian Doonthetoon and yourself.
And Rock – your ignorance knows no limits, if you can suggest Natasha is a “Possible unionist troll”.
Natasha fell out with Rev Stu. End of. You, on the other hand, are exhibiting all the classic troll features; attacking individual posters and diverting pages from the subject under discussion.
I’m not suggesting you are a troll – only that you seem to exhibit certain ‘troll’ qualities. I like this track by the Red Hot Chilli Peppers…
link to youtube.com
People please do not engage with personal thingies – this thread is current, it is read by many, we regulars are few – have a thought for others, they are many xx
Hey Rock
You love to quote posts from not just the recent past but from wayyyy past.
I’m impressed, do you have a wee notebook on me too? I’ll bet you do 🙂 You dumb ass shit 🙂
Brian Doonthetoon,
“Hi Rock.
How often did you meet Paula Rose and speak to her, at the 8 WOS get-togethers, that have taken place since April 2014?”
Definitely not as often as you did:
“But, as Paula Rose told me on Saturday evening at Helensburgh, he’s quite endearing, like a 3 month old puppy.”
You are an useful idiot to Paula Rose.
Paula Rose 9.25
I’ve just rejoined the conversation and haven’t read many of the posts.What the hell have you done to upset Rock now?
Rock.
Congratulations! You have destroyed the discussion on this page.
Award yourself an “Under The Bridge” badge…
ronnie anderson,
“@ Rock awe am mortilly offended you didnt see fit to put my name in capital letter.”
Not to offend you any more than the bare minimum necessary, I wrote your name exactly as you write it.
(Sorry, the following post is on the long side!)
If this ‘kineejit Greer was part of the Yes Scotland campaign team it just consolidates my misgivings about the Yes Scotland campaign that have been troubling me ever since the devastating defeat of 18/19.09.14.
Where *was* the Yes Scotland campaign? Not the physical address in Glasgow, but out there, on the airwaves, on screen, in the media, and on the street, house-to-house, organising rallies, online, on social media, facebook, Twitter, etc., making themselves accessible and seen and heard and as noisily as possible?
Yes, the UK Better Together MSM was 100% behind the UK and used every dirty trick they could to ‘influence’ the result. There was never going to be any fairness, impartially and non-bias from the UK and its subordinates.
Yet, Yes Scotland could surely have made more of an attempt to force the issue of making sure they got at least some representation more of the time. Or, even simple things like requesting equal representation on TV or in interviews, and should these have been ignored or refused, making that information public via social media, showing just how underhand Better Together was acting.
Why wasn’t ex-Labour MP Dennis Canavan given more air-time? He has experience of Westminster and Labour’s machinations and when he speaks he does so authoritatively and put his points across well.
Or, Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh? From interviews and such since her election to Westminster, she speaks well and holds her own.
The CEO himself, Blair Jenkins, was the biggest disappointment of all. When given air-time he was bland and unforceful. Where was the passion? Where was the fight, the spirit, the drive? It wasn’t some local by-election he was given the leadership of – it was for the right of Scotland to become the independent country it was meant to be, FFS; it doesn’t come much bigger than that.
His insistence that the Yes Scotland campaign be nicey-nicey and all sweetness and light meant that Better Together steamrollered their way to victory using negative tactics uncontested except by those in the grassroots campaign.
I really hope that him having being Head of News and Current Affairs at both STV and BBC Scotland, and the recipient of an OBE in 2012 for broadcasting didn’t have any ‘influence’ on the way the campaign was lead.
The newspapers and leaflets offered for distribution by Yes Scotland were bland and insipid. Where were the ones countering the lies from Better Together? Where were the ones revealing the crimes perpetrated upon Scotland and its people by Westminster and the British state, like the McCrone Report, for example?
And now we find out that this eejit Greer was actively working against individuals who were doing their utmost to get a Yes vote for independence – while being employed by Yes Scotland…!? Just fucking unbelievable! Was Jenkins aware of that? If he was, then that is a disgrace beyond words.
Margot MacDonald and others mused out loud about the involvement of MI5 and their infiltration techniques and operatives working from within and without to ensure a No vote. The more one hears about those who were in Yes Scotland’s employ, their dealings, and the overall flacidness of their campaign it makes you think, it really does.
And finally, what would the result have been without the work at grassroots level, a movement that grew spontaneously, if everything had been left in the hands of Yes Scotland? I’m positive it wouldn’t have been anywhere near the alleged 45% for Yes – far from it indeed. And Scotland’s independence would be decades away, if at all, rather than the possibility of anything up to 5-ish years away as we are now.
Now I don’t know whether to feel sad or angry about Yes Scotland and what it did – and didn’t – do, I really don’t.
To all new readers and folk who read this without commenting – please excuse the shenanigans going on normal service will be resumed xx
@Mealer
Rock is just doing his job. Nothing to see here.
All the best for Boorach.
If you don’t want have a ‘crowdfunder’ account you can just send direct by Paypal, email address to send to on the update page.
link to crowdfunder.co.uk
I think Yes Scotland were trying very hard to be ‘safe’ and distinct from the perceived forceful persona of Alex Salmond – yes they were pretty weak but they also weren’t easily attack-able, and to a large extent our understanding if their weakness is what forced the grassroots to be strong.
Yes Scotland were perhaps a deflector shield more than a campaigning organisation
Hi Dal Riata.
Good comments. In Dundee, I saw the RIC out canvassing twice a week – latterly three times a week, I seem to remember – and Team YES Bus were out every week, in the last couple of months of the campaign.
There was a “YES Dundee” but I don’t know if it was a local ‘grassroots’ effort, or a branch of YES Scotland.
Maybe, from now on, we should be coordinating through ‘Scot2Scot’ and the Yes Registry?
Rock
What is wrong with you? PR took you for a ride & you can’t handle it. We who know Paula, know what she is & who she is. Get it through your head that she is under no obligation to answer to you on anything.Just who do you think you are?
You pick on folks when they’ve done absolutely nothing to deserve it. You are basically just a bully. I believe I told you that once before & I’ve seen nothing since to make me change that view.
I remember you being asked on more than one occasion just what you’d done towards GE15 when we were all out doing our bit including Paula. I don’t recall you ever answering the question although I will stand corrected if you did.You are good at criticising others but can’t take it when its aimed at you.
I did wonder if you had a problem with women because you’ve had goes at Paula, Natasha, Morag & probably others.After my rant at you some time ago I left WOS as I was sick of the way you continually dragged threads down into the gutter with your attacks on individuals. Maybe that was your intention, I don’t know but I found it insulting to other posters & Rev Stu.
Rest assured I’m not going away but I certainly won’t be addressing you again here. I’m afraid, you just aren’t worth the effort.
My apologies to everyone else on here but sometimes it just has to be said 🙂
The shenanigans are irritating the tits off me.
He says, she says, blah, blah, blah.
Is there a facility on this forum / blog, where folks can piss off into a private room to sort out their differences?
@Lollysmum, Linda McFarlane, Ronnie
Happy to make a contribution for Boorach – done 🙂
link to crowdfunder.co.uk?
Paula Rose,
“People please do not engage with personal thingies – this thread is current, it is read by many, we regulars are few – have a thought for others, they are many xx”
We are at 180 or more comments and this thread is about Greens being exposed as the hypocrites they are.
Some of us have been pointing this out for a long time while facing insults and patronising from yourself and your sycophants.
Like a chameleon, on this thread you have suddenly and opportunistically changed your long standing Green colours to SNP colours.
Why did you continue pretending to be a Green after joining the SNP?
The moral of the story is, if you want independence, don’t trust the Greens one bit.
It is also a fact that there are many unionist infiltrators inside the SNP. Be very careful.
Hand and Shrimp, yes it is unfair to tar all Greens with the likes of Greer. And if he were just an individual, it wouldnt really make any difference, but he is the top of their list in west of Scotland and that elevates him to a position of (potential)influence in the parliament. In which case he does deserve a greater degree of scrutiny, in regard of his viewpoint which seems to raise some concern, not by this episode of the FoI but earlier episodes with Yes Scotland and the comments by others upthread.
There will be calls in the next few months for voting strategies, 1st vote this and 2nd vote that and people need to understand how the 2nd vote could impact on any majority. They need to be aware of the danger of unionists slipping in on the list. Scot goes Pop discussed this and the link is upthread. It is not as simple as many think.
The way I find peace of mind is to think of indy1 as a path finding exercise. 🙂
@ Dal Riata.
As usual, some excellent points.
It’s easy to get all paranoid after the event but I do wonder about the Yes campaign at the top levels. I remember Morag having hinted darkly at misgivings about Blair Jenkins’ performance, given his BBC background. These still trouble me. The BBC is an odious and completely corrupt body and stands squarely in our way.
But then I consider the new landscape, with 56 MPs, and I keep telling myself its spell is broken.
Not convinced. No pixies at the bottom of my garden, I’m afraid.
Lollysmum,
“Rock
What is wrong with you? PR took you for a ride & you can’t handle it.”
This site is according to the owner “by far the most popular and widely-read Yes-supporting website.”
Are you seriously suggesting that Paula Rose used this website to take me for a ride?
The same Paula Rose who posted this:
“but so far instead of welcoming people you have driven them away.”
What did she aim to achieve by taking me for a ride?
Drive away independence supporters from this website?
Be very careful about unionist agents amongst us.
If we weren’t so gullible, we would not still be a colony after 308 years.
Dal Riata: The CEO himself, Blair Jenkins, was the biggest disappointment of all. When given air-time he was bland and unforceful.
Perceptive: he was not inspirational, not the sort of person one hoped led a Yes campaign. His Wiki entry is brief and loose ended, unfinished. His silence after the Referendum begs the questions, why? Surely a man of such conviction would resurface looking for election to a political seat?
Brian DTT, what about the declaration that we got everybody to sign and sent off all their names to Yes Scotland. Surely that should form the basis of the Yes Registry(or is that what you meant). From the numbers we were getting back to us in the last week, it was up in 1.9M or so. Never did get a final tally. I hope it hasnt ended up in a box somewhere or worse chucked out. Anyone know?
O/T There are many more red squirrels round my way this year though not so many swifts – how about where you are?
@ Dai Riata and Big Jock echo my thoughts….Patrick Harvie talked a good game during the Ref, but never missed a chance to distance himself from the SNP even in the face of Unionist hegemony.
I have never thought it embarrassing to be a Scottish nationalist, in or out of the party. Harvie always seemed relaxed about the national question and I always felt that if Devo Max had been conjured up in reality, that he’d have bought it without a backward glance at Indy.
Many of the Greens’ philosophy is appealing, but so is the SSP, but the eye on the prize is one of Independence first and last. After that, I and others can afford to pick and choose who we want.
I and many other veterans of this site argued long and hard for the SNP to challenge the media imbalance and downright disinformation being disseminated. I never agreed with the ‘softly, softly’ approach and did not use it personally on the doorsteps.
I believe that Blair Jenkins was the wrong man for Campaign leader and I will not speculate publicly as to why I had grave doubts from the first YES meeting I went to..where his answers to my direct questions about BBC bias were dismissed by him to my face.
Canavan and Ivan McKee were far more combative and telling in their defence of fairness and economics of Independence respectively. But both were sidelined at critical times. My abiding memory of Blair Jenkins was on Call Kaye being enticed by a pro-Yesser to state clearly Scotland’s contribution to the UK economy and stating that he didn’t have those figures to hand….this in the last week of the campaign!
@ X Sticks @ Linda @ Lollysmum lets keep spreading this appeal to make Boorach,s life a bit more comfortable.
@Indigo at 9.55 pm
Yes, that’s a fair enough comment.
@Brian Doonthetoon
“Maybe, from now on, we should be coordinating through ‘Scot2Scot’ and the Yes Registry?”
Yes, that’s a good suggestion.
Hopefully, those leading Yes Scotland, or whatever it will be called, for Ref2 will get it right – if Scotland is denied its independence – yet again – there won’t be a Ref3, at least not for a very long time.
We seem to be drifting from the point with all this. It is hardly the first time Stu’s work has been plagiarised by the Scottish media and by Scottish politicians and won’t be the last.
The cost of the renaming, while obscene is hardly the issue. The hospital was named during a ceremony that, had the name been ‘the Alexander Fleming Glasgow Hospital’ the cost would not have raised too many eyebrows.
The decision to rename this hospital in worship of a woman at the pinnacle of the inequality pyramid of the UK can only be seen as a political act.
The hospital is the greatest in the UK at this time and a triumph for the SNP, delivered as it was on schedule and within budget in Scotland’s largest city, a Yes city. For this reason the team GB brand has been applied to her flank to remind all us rebellious Scots that we are subjects, not citizens.
That there are dozens of other hospitals in Scotland with the same Royal brand is not enough. We can’t have a nationalist success, a success independent of the real death star.
There is more to this story than some guy who hates Stu stealing the renaming cost story.
I would love to know how in the name of the wee man this Scottish Government triumph has been usurped by an elderly woman who treated Scotland with absolute contempt at the start of her ‘reign’ over us and did so again 60 years later when she made her feelings known and then purred down the phone to Cameron.
Who signed off on this in the Scottish Government and why? It makes no sense to me
Lollysmum,
“After my rant at you some time ago I left WOS as I was sick of the way you continually dragged threads down into the gutter with your attacks on individuals. Maybe that was your intention, I don’t know but I found it insulting to other posters & Rev Stu.”
You left WOS because you had lost the argument and couldn’t answer back:
Lollysmum,
“No Derek Bateman, I don’t agree with you, the cringe is peeking through your argument.”
“Just shut the fuck up for a change-it’s people like you that are feeding the ‘one party state’ narrative with your attitude that gives MSM & WM its ammunition & you are too dim to see that you are doing it.”
One Scottish cringer attacking another!
Which independence supporter cares about the MSM and WM? They lie about us all the time and don’t need any ammunition to do it.
For the sake of completeness, what do you think about Morag’s comment about a “democratically elected” MP?
“Now, I’m about 90% sure that he was in it up to his bloody neck, which I would happily wring.”
Doesn’t that give “MSM & WM its ammunition” too?
This site does not belong to you. I will stop posting when the Rev. Stuart Campbell tells me to.
Lollysmum,
“I did wonder if you had a problem with women because you’ve had goes at Paula, Natasha, Morag & probably others”
Are Thepnr, Brian Doonthetoon, ronnie anderson, Dave McEwan Hill, Ian Brotherhood women?
WTF!
Maybe the most practical advice on any recent thread and it gets waylaid by this Dwayne Johnston wannabe misogynistic crap.
For the record I didn’t understand the D’hondt method – and I got my higher maths when it was a hard exam – but the 2016 message is —
Vote SNP/SNP.
Now everybody go and buy a copy of John Byrne’s “Your Cheating Heart” and chill the fuck out!
@ Paula Rose Squirrel,s Yes,an ah dont walk as swift as ah used tae.
@Rock
BeJeesuus you have a notebook on Lollysmum too! My my.
Dearie me Rock. You are always ready to pick a fight with Paula Rose, now tonight you seem to be firing off at The Pnr, BDD Ronnie Anderson and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all.
Whit the hell is going on wae you the night, hiv you taken some angry pills or whit?
Now we are all entitled to our own opinions, you included, but surely there is no need to be as aggressive and rude as you are being tonight.
Come on man/woman, calm doon for goodness sake, there’s nae need for any of this.
Tam Jardine: The decision to rename this hospital in worship of a woman at the pinnacle of the inequality pyramid of the UK can only be seen as a political act.
Absolutely – another form of colonisation, of placemen planted to make the weeds in the garden seem natural.
Once upon a time we had a national orchestra. It became the Scottish National Orchestra. The Orchestra of Scotland is title enough, a title recognizable the world over. Then in came a placeman as administrator and it became that tautology of all tautologies, the Royal Scottish National Orchestra.
What’s next?
The Royal Scottish Caledonian British National Orchestra?
Right, that’s it. I’m giving this site a break.
Just days after the Rev posted the encouraging figures for new visitors, I wonder how many will remain when they encounter Folk bickering like infants.
@Tinto Chiel at 10.10 pm
I was with you until the final paragraph:
“Not convinced. No pixies at the bottom of my garden, I’m afraid.”
Not sure of what you’re trying to say there, I admit. Are you implying that I’m making suggestions of some kind of conspiracy theory? If you are, then I want to say that I’m not. I was just putting things out there, as they say.
Observations, implications and suggestions can be made about anything, but subjects such as governments, referendums or elections, for example, I believe should definitely be made, especially the more we learn about the UK and its ‘workings’.
Anyway, I’m not a raging conspiracy theorist and I’ve an open mind about most things, and until there is definite proof one way or the other about various shenanigans all I, and others, can do is attempt to seek the truth – it’s out there somewhere!
Of course, you might not gave been suggesting anything like that at all, and if so, my apologies! 🙂
@ Lochside.
Some good comments, but I believe Denis Canavan had some health problems which sidelined him. Happy to be contradicted on this. When he came to our hub with NS to speak to pensioners in the last week he was excellent. Your BJ anecdote only increases my scepticism about the official Yes Campaign.
@ Rock.
Meant to say on another thread re sovereignty and your comments on Robert Peffers and BDTT (I think): do you deny the Scottish concept of popular sovereignty?
If not, to exercise it, surely you wait until the SNP make it a manifesto commitment, then vote for them. We don’t have to wait for CallmeDave to “grant” anything. Don’t understand your problem with this idea. Once we have a majority in these circumstances we have legality.
Whenever the need to recharge my anger at the loss of my cheated country I just think of the bloated face of Fats MacDougall hypocritically lying to the news camera about why he thought the Yes campaign was doomed from the start.
I keep seeing those loose, chubby lips trying to form words followed by a thin sound coming from the back of his throat, starting from his bowels, and I want to vomit.
Hi Alan Mackintosh.
This is to what I was referring…
link to nationalyesregistry.scot
Their crowdfunder reached its target on Saturday.
With Rock’s lists on everybody, maybe we’ll see Clypegate2.
Rock you’re boring mate.
I’d rather discuss the original article than be subjected to your guff.