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The cuckoo in the nest

Posted on March 06, 2015 by

When we tweeted a link to this Morning Star story about Scottish Labour chief of staff John McTernan speaking for the right-wing think-tank Policy Exchange at a fringe meeting of the Conservative Party conference last September, several readers found it quite difficult to believe.

After all, this was a senior Scottish Labour figure telling delegates that “It’s a good thing [Margaret Thatcher] did what she did” to the UK economy, and that “There’s a far wider range of assets that are currently owned by the government which I would privatise”, among other not-terribly-socialist views. It seemed implausible.

Fortunately, we can now bring you the proof. It’s very much worth a watch.

We’re sure Scottish Labour’s few remaining voters have no cause for alarm, though. We’re almost positive that there’s no significance in the fact that McTernan was pretty much the first person Jim Murphy rushed to hire when he became leader, just a few weeks after McTernan had given the Tories advice on winning elections.

After all, just because you’re in charge of all of a party’s staff doesn’t mean that you get to exert any kind of influence over its policy [SUB PLEASE CHECK].

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  1. 06 03 15 22:42

    The cuckoo in the nest | Speymouth

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130 to “The cuckoo in the nest”

  1. Bob Sinclair says:

    Should be titled ‘one flew over the cuckoo’s nest’

  2. John Fern says:

    Labour, the party that just keeps giving.

  3. Fiona says:

    It is ridiculous.

    Folk don’t trust bankers and that is a bad thing? Just because they trashed the economy?

    Supermarkets compete? Oh, they are not a cartel then? Not even before Aldi and Lidl gave them actual competition?

    I can’t be bothered to listen to any more of this tory apologist.

  4. One_Scot says:

    What an absolute fud.

  5. jacksloan2013 says:

    However did you get this?
    Really shows up McTernan as devious, vile, right-wing, Tory loving git!

  6. Alabaman says:

    Cuckoo in the nest?, “Fox in the chicken hut” more like!.

  7. Macart says:

    I got half way through and had to stop. I think it was the sound of my teeth grinding which brought me to a halt.

  8. Lesley-Anne says:

    Well what do you know … John McTernan is in reality a closet Tory just like Blair McDougall and Jackie Baillie. Just in case anyone has forgotten about these two stalwarts of the Tory party here’s a wee nudge and wink to their TRUE identity. 😉

    So the reality of the current situation folks is that there is no such thing as a Labour party in Scotland no matter how they dress it up it really is just an externsion of the Tory party! 😀

  9. handclapping says:

    And what’s wrong with being a cuckoo in a nest of cuckoos?

    They are not called Red Tories for nothing, you know, though I would say pink at best and lilac more truthfully

  10. Zen Broon says:

    Because Labour dominated Scottish politics for so long, back in the day self serving right-wing Scots who wanted a political career had little choice but to join the Labour Party. They got on because most of their new comrades were lazy dimwits. Now they have key positions in the party and we are surprised that they turn out not to be very ‘socialist’!

  11. Croompenstein says:

    And Creepy Jim has shit in the nest 🙂

  12. Calum McLean says:

    Dear Mr McTernan,

    I know you read this. So here’s the thing: I used to vote Labour. But now I vote SNP. Why? Because you and the New Labour cronies espouse this sort of verbal excrement.

    Plus the fact that here in Scotland, the SNP Government govern well. Not perfectly, but 90% ish. Pretty good by any democratic standards. The SNP stand up for Scotland. That’s all I ask for. A decent government with decent values that allows people to have decent lives.

    Lastly Mr McTernan, every time you spout that drivel, I will donate another £5 to Wings Over Scotland.

    Have a nice day.



    As our Jimmy said “I didn’t leave the Labour Party, The Labour Party left me.”

  13. HandandShrimp says:

    I despair.

    However, it really does show that there is an incredible overlap between key players in the Labour and Tory Parties. One can see why they are rattled by the sudden shift in support to parties outside their hegemony

  14. Andrew Scott says:

    Labour? Nah. Pull the other one.

  15. muttley79 says:

    McTernan really is a nasty, arrogant buffoon. He talks like he is a expert in economics. In reality he is a snide spin doctor and smear merchant, who got very badly found out in Australia. He has the gall to describe himself as a social democrat, yet he clearly is a massive admirer of Thatcher. McTernan also said that Labour were not the dole party. The guy is an uber neo-Liberal.

  16. stonefree says:

    @ Lesley-Anne 6 March, 2015 at 8:47 pm
    Baillie and a free Lunch ,Says It all
    (does that comment make me a vile odious creature?)

  17. steveasaneilean says:

    Capitalism by its very nature depends on the exploitation of others and the vast majority remaining in relative and actual poverty. It is illusory – just like the American Dream which only works on the assumption that 98% never achieve it.
    And this is the message maker for Scottish Labour. If they do get into office God help us all.

  18. Fiona says:

    Clearly you are correct, muttley

    Lallands Peat Warrior noted recently

    ” A comical Times editorial last week described a substantial SNP bloc as a threat to the “policy coherence” of the United Kingdom.”

    That “policy coherence” is the neoliberal hegemony and Tory, Labour and the Lib Dems have adopted it in total.

    That is why you have no choice at all in this so-called democracy. And that is just they way they like it. It has come as something of a surprise to them that the rest of us do not really like that. Who wuddathunk?

  19. tartanarse says:

    I got to 5.50. Do I win a prize?

  20. Sandra says:

    Sad, soulless little man.

  21. steveasaneilean says:

    By the way anyone who ever doubted tha (Not) Labour had long since abandoned Socialism need doubt no longer.

  22. Sinky says:

    All SNP candidates should be circulating this through social media plus Jim Murphy’s links to the Henry Jackson Society.

  23. steveasaneilean says:

    Sorry – no paragraph break in my first post. Please don’t bring out the hammers Stu – it’s Friday night and my brain is frazzled by another week of graft.

  24. Sinky says:

    Has anyone checked Jim Murphy’s attendance record at Westminster over the last five months?

  25. call me dave says:

    Game set and match! Silly to get caught in the same nest as the vipers but the tories can live with it.

    I expect the grand coalition odds just went down then.

    No choice folks vote SNP get Scotland. We need the help and forbearance of the other parties in Scotland who have an independence agenda.

    Time to coalesce for this GE 2015 and no mistake.

  26. Brian Sherry says:

    Send in the clowns,there ought to be clowns……..send in the clowns…….don’t bother they’re here…..grrrr

  27. bookies from hell says:

    I would of demanded a free breakfast having to listen to that shate

  28. HandandShrimp says:

    I do wonder what the founding fathers of Labour would have made of that talk.

  29. donald anderson says:

    With friends like this Labour don’t need enemies. An article on John McTernan, Murphy’s Chief of Staff, from the Morning Star.


    The Morning Star is a Unionist CPB paper.

  30. Mealer says:

    I’m just in from leafleting.Met quite a lot of house holders in the process.Very encouraging response from most.Didnt come across anyone as horrible as McTernan.

  31. JayR says:

    Every Labour member and previous Labour voter in Scotland needs to see this video. Surely the Scottish media will bring up with Jim Murphy the hypocrisy of him badmouthing the Tories while his “brain” praises Margaret Thatcher and attends Tory conferences?

    Oh yeah, its the Scottish media.

  32. JLT says:

    Seriously …where do Labour find these people? First Peter Mandelson, and now John McTernan.

    How on earth did the likes of Mandelson and McTernan manage to work their way into the very sanctum of what is perceived to be the political heart of socialism?

    The whole thing almost smacks of a scene stolen from Marlowe’s Doctor Faustus. Honestly …I can actually picture the likes of Blair, Brown, Darling, etc all standing center-stage in a gloomy light wondering what it would be like to run the country …(we have a light pause) …then a voice from the shadows, ‘what is it you desire?’ …enter the dark lord himself (…at this point, pick your man – Mandelson or McTernan …makes nae difference!!!).

    Seriously …how hard a push was it for Mandelson or McTernan to whisper in the ears of these charlatans, and convince them to give up their moral and ethical values, just so they could taste the forbidden fruit of an elistist privileged lifestyle?

    Just wow, Rev …seriously …just wow!

  33. David S Briggs says:

    It’s a wonder Tony Abbott didn’t take him on. They seem well suited.

  34. Roger Hyam says:

    Five guys feeling really good about themselves. I’d love to see who they were talking to. I bet the room was full of very similar looking blokes.

  35. Tinto Chiel says:

    Loved the bit when his i-Phone went off: “Come in, Number 666! Nursie is waiting with your medication.”

    Night, night, Ring Wraith!

  36. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Aye, he’s a proper charmer, eh?

    If you haven’t seen this YT clip of him with Damian McBride on CH4 News last year, check it out – McT at 6.00 mins:

    “You don’t make an omelette without breaking eggs, and you don’t actually win in politics without breaking legs.”

  37. JLT says:

    Lesley-Anne says:

    Well what do you know … John McTernan is in reality a closet Tory just like Blair McDougall and Jackie Baillie. Just in case anyone has forgotten about these two stalwarts of the Tory party here’s a wee nudge and wink to their TRUE identity

    Whoa!! Good find! …especially the Jackie Baillie one!!! LOL

  38. Ghenghis D'Midgies says:

    Even Thatcher was less right wing than Labour are now and yet the majority of voters are Socialists if only they knew it. (NHS, nationalised railways, etc).

  39. galamcennalath says:

    A Unionist is a Unionist is a Unionist. And, I’m colour blind. Red or blue, all shades of grey to me.

  40. Charles Edward says:

    Governments can’t pick winners. .
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha, haha ha ha ha ew. * sigh *

    Forward to Danny Devito saying ‘hit me..hit me..’
    Or the solitary old man waltzing.

    Big Chief hears the noises in the basement, let’s all find a solution solution for capitalism! Yippee!

  41. Des says:

    Stu you are on a run, keep going – worth every penny of my £20 lol

  42. Macart says:

    @ Calum McLean

    Well said that man. 🙂

  43. ScottieDog says:

    It’s hard to know where to start with this guy. It does however clearly explain the labour ideology.

  44. call me dave says:

    Keep one ear tuned into radio 5 live. Prominent tory to be on soon touting the ‘grand coalition’.

    Love it. 🙂 Fits in fine with this thread.

  45. Grouse Beater says:

    McTernan personifies Labour in the 21st century.

    They really are a Mafia family.

    Look at the sleazy Jack Straw, (or look away) the real man caught in the act, the same who backed his boss, Blair, over Iraq, and lied why we should invade that country.

    Just back from talk by Craig Murray, my first to see him in in reality give a lecture. He’s convinced the SNP is infiltrated by MI5 and MI6, in his opinion, there to direct policy, has to be so because “That’s their job; that’s what they do.”

  46. Wuffing Dug says:

    O/T Been away for a couple of days. Looks like the political phony war has ended and kreig has now been declared. We need to fight on three fronts though, slab, bbc and the record.

    I love trashing the three ‘pillars of shite’, more people listen now. If one falls the other two will follow.

  47. heedtracker says:

    Looks like a sweaty palmed job interview with the tory boys, when it all goes tits up in Scotland land.

    Snatcher Thatcher tory boy world’s greatest monuments are UKOK triumphs on the slide the 2015 Labour, creepy Murphy etc, teamGB third most unequal country in the developed world, easy to say, nightmare to watch, ofcourse Norway’s state oil co’s like Statoil and Norway’s state oil pension funds, currently worth approx £800 billion and forecasting £1.4 trillion in five years all for a Norway with a smaller population that this strange characters Scotland region.

    Bet our Scandinavian neighbours 150 miles away wish they too were owned and ruled over by our tory boy chums in England land.

  48. george says:

    Take a look at @faisalislam’s Tweet:

    grand coalition news

    seems to be the tories putting the boot into labour, but . . .

  49. Defo says:

    In a sane world, this alone should finish Slab off…
    4m 10s in, McT on Labour, in his advise to the Tories.
    “They can’t manage an economy, they’ve shown that. Why would you trust them to manage equality/inequality”
    Does Ed know about this?

  50. caz-m says:

    Forget creepy Jim, McTernan actually revels in getting verbally abused. You could never embarrass this guy. He is definitely not the full shilling.

    Seriously disturbed.

    Re. Red Tories, we mustn’t forget Alistair Darling’s appearance at the Scottish Tory Conference during the Referendum Campaign.

  51. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s another from CH4 News(23.6.14),starring McT and George Galloway, discussing Blair’s status as ‘Peace Envoy’ for the Middle east.

    McT at 1.55 – ‘It wasn’t a mistake to go into Iraq.’

    Jon Snow, to McT, at 3.55 – ‘Where was Tony Blair when Israel was flattening Gaza?’

    Footage of McT flapping may not be thick on the ground, but it is here aplenty – check out the flapping hands, the twisting of the fingers. Snow did him good and proper – other journalists take note.

  52. Edulis says:

    He sounds so plausible as a public speaker until you work out that his presentation is just a ramble through a whole series of Thatcherite sound bites. This revelation would devastate Dim Jim’s credibility or what is left of it.

    His chief of staff, personally chosen by him to help him win the branch office leadership, and to retain his seat, is so out of place in the Scottish polity that you would think that if this were to become common knowledge in Eastwood, it would completely destroy his re-electioon chances.

  53. McBoxheid says:

    Macart says:
    6 March, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    I got half way through and had to stop. I think it was the sound of my teeth grinding which brought me to a halt.

    I completely agree with you.
    The man can’t even string two sentences together without “err”ing or “umm”ing. He has nothing prepared and says the first thing that comes into his head.
    It is little wonder that with this quality of advisor the the Unionist parties are in such dire straits in Scotland and in running the uk economy.

    He hates anything that looks after its own, mutuals coops etc, this clearly reflects in his policy making for labour northern admin unit. He is so right wing, that his one ambition appears to me to be destroy Scottish Labour so completely that the Tories can privatise everything and then some. By employing numpties like Mctiernan, the government no longer needs to govern, they just tell the electorate what is expected, indeed demand it of them and his ilk sort out policy, profit and the end to possible change.

    Fortunately, he has not only been shown in his true colours by the very observant Rev Stu, but the woken up electorate in Scotland has also realised that it is in fact SNP GOOD and unionism very bad, so they’ll get their just desserts come May the 7th.

    Murphy must be thick as pig shite. Granted we know he is a closet Conservative and he failed to get anything useful from 9 years at uni, but McTurd… how low can you go.

    SNP don’t have all the answers yet, or a magic wand to sort every thing out that needs to be sorted, but they are the only party AFAIK, that will listen to other people, politicians and public that have good ideas for the betterment of Scotland. They will put Scotland first. They aren’t going to make ukok change their ways, but they might be able to reduce the damage they can do to Scotland before we get our own self determination.

    Anyone still havering about independence, or even what to vote on 7th May needs to realise that a change is needed. This shite that unionists offer and withdraw and have done since time imemorial need to end. They have lost all credibility and a sweeping change is needed. Not in UK but in Scotland. Scotland never wanted to change England, it never wanted the English to change Scotland, but that what we got. 307 years worth of their dictating what is best for them. Well, it about bloody time that we stood up for ourselves and told them NO MORE.

    Vote for the only thing on offer that is good for Scotland in May. Vote SNP.
    Next year we can decide who we want to represent us in Scotland, but for May there is only one real choice.

  54. muttley79 says:

    @Grouse Beater

    Just back from talk by Craig Murray, my first to see him in in reality give a lecture. He’s convinced the SNP is infiltrated by MI5 and MI6, in his opinion, there to direct policy, has to be so because “That’s their job; that’s what they do.”

    Thankfully Craig Murray did not get selected to be a SNP candidate. Did he offer any evidence for his claims and speculations? I bet he did not. If he did say what you said he did, Murray is basically saying Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney are working for MI5 (after all they are the ones most responsible for SNP policy); quite why they be working for MI6, let alone MI5, is a mystery that would require some amount of explaining.

  55. Fred says:

    Where’s Will Podmore when you need him?

  56. CameronB Brodie says:

    I missed this one, but it looks like the Middle East peace envoy (Tony Blair) and John McTernan, both want to escalate the war in Syria/Iraq, calling for British troops to get involved.

    Socialist or neocon hawk, (imperialist warmonger in old speak)?

    You may not want to hear this, but Tony Blair is right about ISIL
    This is where we get to the rub. We have to fight groups like ISIL. There can be an abundance of diplomacy, all necessary relief of humanitarian suffering, every conceivable statement of condemnation which we can muster, but unless they’re accompanied by physical combat, we will mitigate the problem but not overcome it.
    Air power is a major component of this to be sure, especially with the new weapons available to us. But – and this is the hard truth – air power alone will not suffice. They can be hemmed in, harried and to a degree contained by air power. But they can’t be defeated by it.

    @John McTernan
    How will the indiscriminate murder of civilians that will undoubtedly result from airstrikes, lessen the spread of radical Islamic nationalism? What about cutting off funding to Salafist terrorists, or do you not think Saudi Arabia and Qatar will cooperate?

    Oh, and John says Tony Blair was right.

    John McTernan: Labour should learn from Tony Blair

  57. Sinky says:

    Brian Wilson having a laugh in the Hootsman

  58. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    Rev Stu – just brilliant!

    You must have spies and moles all throughout the establishment (yes there are lots of Scots around). Do you have special covert “Alert Mole” badges?

    Classic piece of mendacious Red Tory Chief of Staff for right wing, authoritarian, neo-liberal party toadying up to the Blue Tories and then pretending to be a Scottish left wing socialist.

    Red Tory – Red Tory – Red Tory – for all to see.

    What a total slime-ball that man is.

    Dynamite video – you and your “Alert Mole” network are stars.

    That is why I just love Wings!

  59. call me dave says:

    Tory Lord Baker: ‘Grand coalition’ game on. Constitutional crisis. Radio 5 interview.

    But…but Murphy says it’s not on.

    They are a bit slow to catch up down South, the ‘groat’ has finally dropped. 🙂

  60. Another Union Dividend says:

    at call me dave says:

    After Labour MP Gisela Stuart’s remarks the Westminster elite is bricking it if the SNP and Scotland have influence at Westminster

  61. BrianW says:

    “If business is less trusted than politicians then we’ve real difuculties.”

    “The banks are looked on quite badly by the public.”

    It sounds more like a marketing psycho-babble think tank. How to get the public to think more positively about big business, greedy banks, big fat cats etc.

    To hell with inequality books, we need to shove the message out there that greed is good, BIG Business is the Bees-Knees, Fat Cats aren’t FAT enough..

    So how does this mind-set, and advice from Mr McTernan fit in with Labours much lauded strive for Social Justice.

    Jim has a thirst for social justice as Dani Garavelli points out in his piece at

    “..that his years as a working class boy in Arden and then in apartheid South Africa bred in him a thirst for social justice that drives his politics.”

    I’m have a problem with, and I think most folk would, why would Jim, with his love for social justice employ someone who’s views, highlighted by the video above and the Morning Start article are the polar opposite of Social Justice?

    P.S – First time I’ve seen Jim referred to as the underdog. A psychological strategy there – get it into the public mind?

  62. Patrician says:

    My dog know as much about economics as Mr McTernan. My dog, however, has the advantage of chewing his way through half an economic textbook.

    With regards to Australia, I was talking to an Australian colleague earlier today, he would love Mr McTernan to return to Australia to explain economics. As much use as shit on shoes, I think was the expression used to describe Mr McT.

  63. Proud Cybernat says:

    Saw this today in car park of Lidl’s supermarket. Lidl needs to be a little more careful (and savvy) in who they sponsor (or get into bed with):

    I like Lidl, so perhaps we should write to them first to nudge them in the right direction before any boycott of them. If they insist in continuing in getting into bed with the Redcoat, it’s a boycott from me.

  64. Papadox says:

    The Secret intelligence Services, inc. MI5/6. The first and most important duty of this crew is to defend and protect the crown (UK state). Like all other state forces they are there to protect the state UK and their allegiance is to the monarch.

    I think they would classify Scottish, Welch and Irish separatist as a threat to the state and act accordingly. That is their no1 job.

  65. Grouse Beater says:

    Murray is basically saying Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney are working for MI5

    It was quite a wide ranging talk; I got the impression one he has given a few times, illustrated with his experiences of the duplicitous civil service he once worked for.

    If the miners union can be infiltrated at the topmost level by Thatcher’s soldiers, so can the SNP, I have no doubt about that. That’s how they destroyed the miner’s union, reporting back to Downing Street, (all information is ‘useful’ information) making false claim its leader had stolen money from the miner’s fund and hidden it in a Swiss bank account, was one partly-successful smear.

    Suggesting secret service infiltration doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be the leadership you mention, more their personal assistants, or advisers.

    The British State knows Scotland is a serious threat to its power and so it will do what it has always done.

    But – and I’m sure Murray would enjoy my wink back at him – Murray himself by his background is the perfect recruit, were he not so prone to making public deceit, lies, sleaze and corruption in high places he encounters.

    Then again, that could be the double bluff.


  66. desimond says:

    You dont fool me Stu…ive seen those fake Downfall videos before!!

  67. Grouse Beater says:

    Papadox: MI5/6 That is their no1 job.

    Exactly so. They are doing what comes naturally, what they get paid to do.

  68. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Dear WOS buddies,

    I know some of you have, like me, been wondering why Google and other search engines can’t find anything when you ask about ‘the overpresidentialization of the optics of politics’.

    It’s a pure scunner, eh?

    Never mind. Good news!

    Here is that very phrase, as used by John McTernan, captured in an interview on the BBC last year, post-indy. It’s at 3.22:

  69. desimond says:

    Wasnt McTernan hoping to take over Ally Dallys seat…well sitting with Tories would be a good start for following Mr Darling

  70. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Grouse Beater at 10.06

    Of course the SNP is infiltrated.It always has been – and it always has been very aware of it.
    Only the naive would believe otherwise.
    Just like the naive that don’t think the UK would fiddle elections if it had to.

    It is becoming obvious that the Labour Party is possessed however

  71. dakk says:

    Muttley 79

    I’d be very surprised if MI5 are not represented in all the main parties,but would I hope find it impossible to gain any traction in a disciplined,cohesive party like SNP.

    This McTernan guy is not well known in public domain so we have to get him outed to non political types.

  72. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    I was thinking exactly the same thing.

    Will, Will – where for art thou.

    Come and defend your chief of staff!

  73. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    McTernan is a fuckwit. Just ask the Australian Labour party after he completely destroyed their election chances and their leader.

    So why did Murphy hire him so quickly? Almost certainly owed him a favour as McTernan was the guy Murphy and wee Dougie used as the spinner middle-man to brief against wee Ed Miliband in the papers a few years ago.

    For those who forget Murphy wasn’t even good enough for a clueless dumpling like Miliband awho booted Murphy out of the shadow cabinet following Smurph’s involvement in the Falkirk scandal.

    The pair of right-wing Red Tory chancers deserve each other and the electoral pasting that is coming their way in May.

  74. Kevin Brown says:

    Just before 4 minutes in he says-
    “They (Labour Party) can’t manage the economy, they’ve shown that. Why would you trust them to manage equality or inequality…”
    That’s a pretty damning assesment if you ask me.

  75. muttley79 says:

    In regards to British intelligence services and Scottish politics, I honestly do not see the point in talking about it much. Chiefly because we are not in any position whatsoever to do anything about it. Another problem is discussing it in any depth only really serves to increase paranoia and mistrust, and so I cannot see how it helps the cause of independence. So this is my last post on the matter!

  76. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BrianW (10.41) –

    ‘It sounds more like a marketing psycho-babble think tank.’

    Precisely so.

    Please check the last five seconds of this interview, which I posted above:

    Straight from the horse’s proverbial, eh?

  77. frankieboy says:

    One of my friends at university was studying Communication & Marketing and had a tutorial class. She had to do a five minute talk on a topic and she was sitting, quite relaxed 15 minutes prior to the class admitting she hadn’t prepared or even read anything about it. I asked how she managed and her reply was “make it up and believe it”. I think McTernan applies the same rule. Bullshit, expertly delivered.

  78. Clootie says:

    That clip made me sick. I challenge any current Labour voter to justify that man in his current role.
    Murphy appointed him because they share the same neoliberal “new labour” values.

    To those still voting Labour – wake up. Your party has been hijacked. The label red Tories is based on evidence from their own mouths.

  79. Grouse Beater says:

    Another cuckoo in the nest:

    I’m as convinced as I dare be without hard official verification that BBC’s Gavin Essler moonlights for MI6.

    I was never certain about him when at the Beeb, but his Borders foray when he gave massive publicity to an MI6 phony anti-independence website seemed to clinch it for me. Where is that site now? And the money reported to have been donated to it?

    How in hell did he get its tag before it actually advertised a thing about its aims and objectives? And his narrative was completely non-judgmental or questioning.

  80. galamcennalath says:

    OT I’ve noticed Wikipedia becoming a bit of an information and opinion battle ground!

  81. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    @mutley79 and grouse beater

    From this thread it looks like Rev Stu has SI5 and SI6 up and running quite nicely.

    Obviously our new crowd funding has been put to good use and has managed to covertly turn some wavering Tories.

    I look forward to further revelations from the SI5 and SI6 “Alert Mole” sleeper network in the coming months.

  82. gillie says:

    Tory: Well John how can we beat Labour?

    McTernan: We get Jim Murphy elected as Scottish Labour leader.

    Tory: I don’t see how that can work?

    McTernan: The best bit is that I join Jim’s team and feck things up royally making Jim look like a right prat.

    Tory: Brilliant.

  83. The Isolator says: out of Australia and he ends up back here splaffing pish!!

    As for British Intelligence agencies I’m sure there will be counter Scottish agencies at work.

    Edinburgh Calling

  84. Robert Kerr says:

    O/T but entertaining. My friend Joe mentioned the leader debates tonight and posited that Nicola would be wearing tartan garments down to her incontinence Tena pads.

    Specially made for SNP women of a certain age.

    He is a sensible and intelligent lad. This obviously is sourced from somewhere!

    This is truly an indication that SNP is winning.

    Our day shall come!

  85. Democracy Reborn says:

    My reaction upon watching the video is one of disgust. 100%, unequivocal disgust.

    For a senior Labour politician to even think (never mind say publicly) that Thatcherite economics was “good” defies belief. That would be the creed which deliberately used mass unemployment as a tool of macroeconomic policy and caused social devastation to whole communities which persist to this day.

    Every Scottish Labour MP and MSP should be called upon publicly to confirm whether they endorse McTernan’s comments. And no doubt we can expect a Daily Record headline with ‘Murphy Chief : Thatcher was “good”!’

  86. Ron says:

    Of couse the security services have an interest in the Scottish independence campaign and the SNP – we are actively trying to break apart the state. No doubt we are all on a list simply for looking at Wings.

    Remember Willie MacRae…

  87. Grouse Beater says:

    Edinburgh Calling 🙂

  88. Dr Jim says:

    Seeing McTernan there reminded me, i need to get some toilet duck

  89. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Re the clip featured –

    It speaks volumes that McT was appearing on a panel comprising Tories (‘fringe’ Tories at that) – here was one of Blair’s closest confidantes, in the flesh (!) addressing them, agreeing with them, praising Saint Mgt to the hilt, making excuses for misunderstood bankers, and yet…they all looked so terminally bored. (And that’s just the fellow panellists – how stricken was the audience?)

    McTernan is, it seems, one of those poor souls who just can’t make anyone happy, no matter what he does! Aw, bless…

    Could it be that he’s just a loser, period, and can’t accept it?

  90. I met Craig Murray after he gave a talk at a SNP social gathering and for me he came across as a genuine Scottish Nationalist and he definitely knows his way around the machinations of the UK establishment.

    I think he was genuinely hurt by some of the vitriol from some quarters about his application to be a candidate for the SNP.

    Too think/say that the Establishment have not infiltrated all political parties is naive in the extreme and almost becomes suspicious.

  91. Dr Jim says:

    British and Intelligence

    Now surely most folk don’t think these two words go together
    How many times do the above have to prove their dire incompetence on anything, on a weekly basis properly bad people do whatever the hell they like and that’s while they’re being watched
    Americans now that’s a different story, they are nut jobs
    those guys arrest you for standing up straight or being black, or asian, or well anybody really
    We’re perfectly safe on here we’re only ultra extremist insurgent separatist nats so that’s ok

  92. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Grouse Beater (11.27) –


    That ‘Gavin’?

    That ‘Essler’?



  93. Onwards says:

    >muttley79 says:

    “In regards to British intelligence services and Scottish politics, I honestly do not see the point in talking about it much. Chiefly because we are not in any position whatsoever to do anything about it. Another problem is discussing it in any depth only really serves to increase paranoia and mistrust, and so I cannot see how it helps the cause of independence..

    Sure, It leads to tinfoil hat jibes, but realistically, I don’t think many people would be naive enough to think that it wasn’t going on. The ‘breakup of Britain’ would be given top priority for intelligence agencies.

    SNP politicians will have known their phones were likely bugged during the referendum, and we see now that UK government agencies hacked sim cards, allowing them to easily intercept calls and messages.

    The best thing is simply to run an open and honest campaign, with nothing to hide.

  94. caz-m says:

    Pacific Quay is not the headquarters of BBC Scotland, it is actually the headquarters of the MI5 in Scotland.

    I know it’s hard to believe, but the staff inside BBC Scotland are not actually journalists, they are MI5 agents.

    They have one task, and that is to hold the Union together, at all costs.

    Agent Burd will be known as “Secret Squirrel”, because of her ability to hold a huge amount of nuts in her mouth at the one time. She takes her job very seriously.

    Pacific Quay will oversee what news the people of Scotland get to hear and what they don’t get to hear.

    Up the Union.

  95. manandboy says:

    Scotland’s Independence isn’t about destroying the Union.

    More about solving a crime.

  96. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Hey, y’all, ignore the BS best as you can.

    Van Morrison, ‘Days Like This’ –

  97. manandboy says:

    John McTernan.

    All those years with Labour – as a Tory plant.

  98. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @caz-m –

    ‘…her ability to hold a huge amount of nuts in her mouth at the one time.’


    Hence the stretch-marks.


  99. If Harold Wilson when PM came under the scrutiny of MI5 then surely anybody is a able of being under scrutiny. as stated that is what they do.

    The more you expand democracy the less relevance it has. Scotland has not been served well by the current democratic template which moves further away from the electorate towards vested interests.

    Business is important and has to be encouraged and nurtured but not at any expense. Bankers and politicians have failed us and seek to make restitution by exploiting the most vunerable in our society whilst rewarding those who caused the problem in the first place. Sure banks get fines for their misconduct but who pays those fines, we do and we seem to accept this.

    WE will not manage to go forward if every time misconduct is discovered we permit the defence of ‘that was in the past, move on’ The time for change has long since passed.

  100. donald anderson says:

    Of course British Intelligence has infiltrated the SNP and every other political organisation, including the tame unions and the Brit left have always been a recruiting agency for BI. Why wouldn’t it be otherwise? They also like to sew seeds of suspicion, mistrust and misinformation.

    Of course the EBC is a spy agency and was openly so during the two World Wars. Churchill nationalised Thomas Cook and other agencies to keep it from the hands of German spies.

    When Lenin, in exile, was asked what to do about the Tsarist agents his reply was to make sure that they keep paying their dues.

    The SSP had their share of Brit spies and were easy to divide anyway, like the whole of the Brit left. If the British Nationalist left were not working for the BI then they were doing it for nothing. Murphy’s old student Revolutionary Communist Party and Irish Freedom front are now proven spies and agents for BI, BOSS and the CIA.

    Whole branches of the American Communist Party were FBI spies. The Common Weal of the 18thc had one half unwittingly spying on the other half, without knowing the other side were agents of the Crown. If thw Green Brigade wanted to see “Agents of the Crown”, they need not have to look any further than the Labour and Unionist’s Directors Box at Parkheid. Nothing easier to divide and rule than by stirring up bigoted simpletons and the mass idiocy of the Old Firm.

    One Irish journalist clams that both the Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries were not only riddled with British spies and agent provocateurs, but to a large extent were controlled by them.

    Enoch Powell said that those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first send them mad. And what easier than a Labour party of lumpen corrupt numpties to descend into utter madness? British Intelligence could now walk away and leave them to it so well has their work been done. The latter day Ramsay MacDonalds of today do not now need any Zinovev forgeries to prove that most of them are all Bustards.

  101. Macart says:

    Oh jeez, both Tory parties in total constitutional meltdown.

    Of course the current leadership cannot and will not come out and say such a thing, but that prominent members of both parties and the press are constantly bringing the subject up tells you just how rattled they are at the thought of Scottish representation that isn’t quite as tame as they are used to.

    It makes an utter mockery of ‘Better Together’. What happened to stay we love you? What happened to the family of nations? What happened to the world’s oldest, most successful political partnership?

    Was it only a successful partnership so long as one partner sat down and shut up? Was it only a successful partnership when one partner knew their place?

    The SNP cannot and will not fight this election on the basis of independence. Hard as it is to take and live with, the settled will of the electorate last September was to continue in political union for the moment. The SNP are standing on a ticket of being the best, most robust representation Scotland can send down to Westminster to safeguard our interests and hold ‘Better Togethers’ high fiving hierarchy to account over the guarantee of the bestest, home ruliest, devolved parly in the world.

    The established parties response to this? Let’s consider ganging up to deny Scotland democracy within the UK. Let’s get each other to publicly rule out dealing with Scotland’s democratically mandated representation. Let’s get our media chums in the Mail, Guardian, Telegraph, Express etc to continue to drum up anti Scottish sentiment and fight a referendum campaign in the middle of a party political election.

    Soooo a UK party mandated by its electorate to represent their interests under Westminster electoral rules, is a thing to be actively feared? Is that what they are saying? And the electorate of this party, their wishes are to be ignored, their democratic rights forgotten? Is that about right?

    Now you know why we need to vote ALL Tory parties out. Because that SNP representation can and will work within that system and use it to hold others to account, protect the interests of the electorate and act, for possibly the first time ever, as a partner with a strong and distinctive voice.

    Now why is that so scary for the establishment? Its what they wanted after all. Wasn’t it?

  102. Clootie says:

    Macart @ 5:26 am

    Thanks for the link.

  103. Ken500 says:

    Unelected McTernan is one of the most disgusting people in the UK. A charlatan who would commit any international crime line his own pockets. In league with the Tories at every turn against the Public interest. A charlatan and a liar.

    Make poverty history vote SNP. People in Scotland will not abandon their fellow citizens. Give the Tories the boot along with their corrupt, lying spin. Every word they utter is a lie.Thatcher was a corrupt liar. Thatche supported child abuse to line her and her associates pockets. Thatcher established tax havens and caused the banking crash. Sold off the UK assets and rewarded the most wealthy with secret transfers of public money to her associates. A real criminal who broke Britain’s back and broke every Law in the UK.

  104. Rockysboy says:

    It just gets better, there getting caught out at every turn

  105. Ken500 says:

    The Green in Aberdeen City Council has succeeded in colluding with the Unionists to ruin Aberdeen City Centre and land the City in £Millions of debt and further traffic chaos. Willy Young has been making secret deals with developers against the majority wishes and against the Public interest. The City is now in £Millions of debt and traffic chaos because of their decisions, while lining pockets. Thry refused a Gift of £80Million to pedestrianise the City. They have transferred £Millions of City assets to a private company totally illegal and with no mandate or authority.

    The colluding Green is leading the campaign to ruin the City Centre. They are spending
    £33Millions, without a mandate to vandalise the Art Gallery and ruin the marble stairs. They spent £26Million paying off AECC debts. A private company. They now plan another unsustainable Entertainment Venue wasting even more public money in the West of the City creating more traffic chaos. After rejecting plans for a much needed fully funded community Football Stadium in the south of the City which would have alleviated

    ACC are a disgrace working against the majority wishes, against the public interest and putting the City into £Millions of debt.

    To add insult to injury there are plans for even more thousands of houses at Grandholm. It was designated a Green belt area when the Bridge of Don was extended, as a buffer against further development development. ACC members have no mandate and no shame. The last time Labour/Unionist had control they nearly bankrupted the City and had to be censored. They are making the same mistakes again, and should be censored. They are not fit for Public Office, working against the majority wishes and the public interest. Everyone is raging.

  106. john king says:

    An ex Tory party chairman has used the C word,
    Lord Baker said that in the event of a hung parliament Labour and Conservatives should be prepared to enter into a grand coalition in response to the danger of the SNP gaining the majority of seats in Scotland,
    nice to see democracy is alive and well eh?
    Noo, whaurs the exit door again?

  107. Grouse Beater says:

    Ian Brotherhood: Do you mean this Gavin Esler?

    Aye, I do. And here’s there relevant passage from my essay:

    Esler and British Intelligence

    Then there was the mystery of journalist, and erstwhile presenter of Newsnight, Gavin Esler, presenting a glaring piece of puffery about, an obvious to all except Esler, fake “grass-roots” (his description) anti-independence movement called ‘No Borders.’ Only, he did not present it as a phony British intelligence unit without a shred of credible evidence to support its claims. He did not ask where it had acquired its largesse in such a short time. His narrative was without any questions or scepticism. To increase puzzlement further, Esler presented his advertisement to viewers before ‘No Borders’ had announced its arrival to the public. Esler’s feature was the announcement.

  108. Muscleguy says:


    At school in NZ I was into debating and I won best speaker at the Auckland open impromptu debating competition aged 17, almost certainly for arguing passionately in favour of right wing policies and seeing the middle class, middle aged audience lapping it up. It was heady stuff and I didn’t believe any of it and hadn’t known what I was going to say or the topic 15min before hand.

    I was well aware of the uses to which I could have put that talent but doing that in a debating competition is one thing, doing in real life, something that matters is a different matter and I care too much about the truth and personal conscience to go there.

    Stood me in good stead on the doorsteps in the referendum and manning street stalls when you never knew what you were going to have to talk about next. Though there I never went anywhere I didn’t want to and not being an SNP or any party member I was free to criticise them too, where warranted.

    There is something in the idea of creative tension, in using absolute need to drive yourself. There is also benefit in being well prepared. That doesn’t mean you script every word, only that you are on top of your material and have a rough outline of what needs to be covered.

  109. Albaman says:

    When Alex Salmond stood up and said, after winning an overall majority in the Hollyrood elections,
    ” politics in the U.K. Will never be the same from now on”.
    Just how right he was, will be born out over the next few months, and years!.

  110. Broch Landers says:

    How very 1990s.

  111. Fred says:

    @Donald Anderson. Anent “Agents of the Crown” surely you don’t mean the Baron Cardowan, 🙂

    A long tradition of subversion in Scotland, Richmond & the Glasgow Spy System fomented the Scottish Insurrection and the execution of its leaders for freedoms which we now take for granted. There’s an aniversary coming up I think?

  112. HandandShrimp says:

    Just back from talk by Craig Murray, my first to see him in in reality give a lecture. He’s convinced the SNP is infiltrated by MI5 and MI6, in his opinion, there to direct policy, has to be so because “That’s their job; that’s what they do.”

    Grouse Beater

    I would be very surprised if the security services don’t have tabs on every political party. They were spying in Harold Wilson back in the day when he was PM. That said I think there is a difference between having ears in an organisation and actually running it. You can do the agent provocateur thing with a small bunch of radicals but not a political movement that spans the breadth of the country.

    However, of course they are watching us. They may even fear us precisely because we are a legitimate, peaceful political movement.

  113. Tattie-bogle says:

    Cheers that’s 12.21 minutes i won’t be getting back

  114. iclare says:

    Mutuals are ‘pish’
    I paraphrase

  115. Lorna Sharp says:

    I stoically listened right to the end – and his ending, accompanied by loud conspiratorial laughter, was , “in the words of French Canadian Prime Minister, Jean Cretien, ‘Governments can’t pick winners, but losers can sure pick governments.'” Vile claptrap, but he was being listened to.

  116. Tattie-bogle says:

    Proud Cybernat

    I was in Lidl last night and the pile of Redcoats was huge i don’t think they sell many 🙂

  117. Tattie-bogle says:

    Watch the BBC’s World of Oil it will give an insight to the lengths the British establishment have and will go to for the black stuff.

  118. Grouse Beater says:

    I agree with your sentiments, (at 09.28) Hand and Shrimp. 🙂

  119. Capella says:

    There is one advantage in alerting readers to the machinations of MI5 and their American cousins, and that is to realise what they are capable of and stay alert to people subverting policy by fair means or foul. The above video is a good example which would probably horrify ordinary Labour supporters. Never take policy for granted.

    The dropping of Clause 4 from the Labour constitution went largely unnoticed by the rank and file. Me included. There was no website equivalent to Wings explaining what was going on!

  120. ian says:

    Where do you go when you’ve lost all principles,sense of fairness and decency,you join the establishment.

  121. Rob James says:

    HandandShrimp @ 09:28

    Not so sure about MI6, unless they regard us as an overseas territory. Probably true then.

  122. Kevin Evans says:

    There’s been a lot of talk about this “grand coalition” lately. At first the fear of such a thing sent shivers down my spine. But the more I think about it maybe labour are on a suicide mission. A grand coalition with be labours final nail in there coffin on a UK level. So good riddance if that’s the way they wanna play it.

  123. Kevin Evans says:

    Normally I don’t quote from newspapers but I had to share this paragraph.

    This is what’s instore for our nation if there is a grand coalition.

    He says a constitutional convention should then be established, encompassing England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, with the aim of “preserving the United Kingdom” through the “orderly, fair, consistent and coherent” delivery of devolution to the UK’s four nations.

    Basically am reading that as “take away any choice for one of these nations to break away from the union.” So there gonna make us prisoners to the union. God help us if that happens.

  124. Chic McGregor says:

    Professor Iain Stewart’s ‘Planet Oil’ series is, as always from him, very interesting and well done. He is, undoubtedly, in my mind, the best of the media science presenters. He manages to convert to lay terms without distorting accuracy or logical cohesion and with minimal ‘dramatization for effect’.

    I wonder though, when the Beeb commissioned this series, whether they envisaged a more geological only focus, as per his past productions, rather than the large amount of political content which he included? Especially the morally bereft subterfuge activity by the UK and America they undertook/take to gain control of oil producing areas.

  125. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Just tried to watch this, but link seems to have been pulled, starts for about a second, then error message. Anyone archived it?

  126. Caroline Corfield says:

    Kevin, whoever said that is going to have an interesting time explaining the abandonment of a principle of the Good Friday Agreement, if your interpretation of what it means turns out to be true. I believe that enshrined within the agreement is the right, should the NI assembly desire, to a referendum on the secession to the Republic of Ireland whenever it chooses. (possibly more than once, not sure, anybody want to firm this up?)

    A bit like a permanent Edinburgh Agreement.

    Which would be nice for the other constituent parts to have.

  127. Bigdrone says:

    50 Shades of Shite!

  128. stonefree says:

    @ Kevin Evans 1:02 pm
    Your initial fear is I believe well founded, the demise of Labour would result in a far more right wing government and opposition,if indeed they sought to be different at all.
    Imagine 100 years of these “shit for brains,public school arses”
    Doesn’t bear thinking about

  129. donald anderson says:

    There is nothing that the Tories or Thatcherites have done that Labour have not done worse since Lords, Wilson, Callaghan and Mr Blair. They have sunk even further to the right and opportunism under Millie and Murphy.

  130. stonefree says:

    @donald anderson 5:29 pm
    Milliband is just a lost village idiot,It’s Murphy I can’t stand,he’s like a fourth rate Labour Councillor with less integrity but more slimy

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