The Big Win
It is our grave duty to inform readers that Kenny “Kezia Dugdale will be the next First Minister” Farquharson of The Times has done a tweet again.
It’s a curious thing to say before either of the inquiries has delivered its report. The only people who are asserting that Sturgeon has been somehow cleared of involvement in a conspiracy are the SNP, and even their own voters are split down the middle on it.
But let’s just check on how big the SNP are winning right now.
The inquiry began at the start of August last year.
At that point the SNP had a 37-point lead over the Scottish Tories, and a breathtaking 43-point lead over Scottish Labour.
(Even as recently as mid-November, when the inquiry had failed to attract any serious public attention, the SNP’s polling had barely been grazed, with those leads standing at 37 and 41 points respectively.)
Three days ago, before last night’s bombshell revealing that even the almost-toothless Holyrood inquiry had found that the First Minister misled Parliament, those leads were down to 22 points and 26 points – huge drops of 15 and 17.
An SNP majority that had looked to be an absolute nailed-on certainty on constituency seats alone is now teetering on the brink – the most recent poll shows them falling short by one and relying on the Greens again.
More importantly, it suggests that the pro-Yes vote in the election will fall below the critical 50% required to provide a “moral” imperative for a new referendum. If a majority of Scots vote for Unionist parties then regardless of how seats may be allocated Boris Johnson will feel absolutely secure in refusing permission.
(The sane among us know that he will anyway, but it’ll be an even easier sell if he can simply point to a majority of Unionist votes.)
The reason Kenny Farquharson is bigging up Nicola Sturgeon is because he wants her to stay where she is, and he wants that because he knows she’s now absolute poison to any chance of a >50% Yes vote.
It would take quite the spectacular optimist to imagine that the news is going to get any better for Sturgeon in the next few days, and the last thing any Unionist wants is for the Yes movement to get a last-minute chance to regroup and reorganise.
This site and others have been warning independence supporters for at least a year now that EXACTLY this scenario would play out. It suited almost everyone – opposition parties, Unionist media and an SNP leadership that has no remotely credible plan for independence, has no money to fight for it, and no desire to derail a very comfortable devolution gravy train anyway.
We’ve all had nothing but endless torrents of horrific abuse for our trouble. If it comes to pass the way it looks more and more likely to, we will be accepting precisely none of the blame. We told you until we were Saltire-blue in the face.
Your betrayer lives in Bute House, and the barely-concealed joy and celebrations of the Unionists at her continued survival are your evidence.
Kenny, Kenny, with his jobbie-stained spurtle.
In a shower of second-raters, he’s the class clown. As cunning as Baldrick with a hangover…
General Sir Douglas Haig used to ensure that his defeats were reported as victories, because he knew that people wanted to believe him.
“O tempora, o mores”
How did it come to this? 🙁
When the smoke of the current battles has cleared, and the reckoning has been done, we have much work to do fellow Yessers. Things may look bleak right now, but we have to believe that we can do better than this, right?
Don’t know who Kenny is (except what you say here), but he does sound like Trump.
Excerpt from the political thriller Holyrood Royale…
Boris Johnson:
[telling SNP voters they were betrayed]
I’m afraid that your friend Sturgeon… is really… my friend Sturgeon.
The real political investigative journalist at The Times is Kieran Andrews. I wouldn’t expect him to accept this guff either.
Mix everything up for a few weeks more, then throw in a hand-grenade. That’s what I think is going to happen now.
Once you start threatening The Spectator and Guido Fawkes and folk like that, then it’s only going to end one way.
Plus, I don’t think David Davis is finished yet.
I’ve took nothing but abuse from the sturgeon fan club for the best part of 2 years now and the most depressing thing is that even after she is dethroned and is shown up for the liar she is it will only be the most hollow of hollow victories. We will have been set back decades possibly and to top it off in the eyes of the ‘In Nic we trust’ brigade we will be forever to blame.
There really is just no helping some people.
I could cry…
You are right Stu.
Sturgeon doesn’t care about the damage she is doing. She doesn’t care , because she hasn’t resigned! She is toxic to so many people and may kill independence for 10 years.
Who the hell is Nicola Sturgeon, I really don’t know anymore.
Soda – If she is forced out. Her followers will blame Salmond for all of this and destroying independence. There really is no helping some people.
Also, the bizarre notion that she should remain because the Tories are worse so in the scheme of things it is all relative. Even Labour folk from down south coming to her defence. The comfort that everyone is mired in sh*t, so it doesn’t matter.
Can you imagine the debates and hustings from now on? What a stick the Unionists will have to beat us with. All so avoidable.
A big win? Who for I wonder. Did you see David Davis on Speccie TV? Maybe not! He said he might be quite willing to use parliamentary privilidge to continue to put stuff in the public domain. As Stu said “a ticking timebomb”. Maybe more of drip, drip, drip of vitriol in some vision of one of Dante’s inner circles of hell.
It does feel like NS might soon be on a spit and getting toasted to perfection. Maybe not enough to make the faithful turn on her but enough to ensure sutably crap election result and to allow the toasting to continue for months to come. And a party so bereft of independent thinkers that they couldn’t even start a revolution.
I’m reminded of Churchill’s asssertion that Democracy is the worst system imaginable till you consider the alternatives.
The snp faces at least ten years in the wilderness.
Nicola and her unhinged lying and scheming destroyed everything.
It’s the end of the world.
Desperately sad and fuming angry in equal measure!
There is much worse to come.
Sturgeon does not care for Scots or independence. That much is clear.
My favourite cultists are the ones who blame Alex Salmond for the timing of it all. Jonestown levels of delusion.
Maybe if their wee scone hadn’t ducked, avoided and downright obstructed for so long then this wouldn’t be detonating at the worst possible time.
James Matthews at Sky clearly has the report and is going to drip feed Sturgeon criticism on a daily basis.
Today the committee criticise her for failing to inform the permanent secretary about the April meeting with Salmond’s team until June.
If Sturgeon remains in post until the election independence is a dead duck for years. In the old days when you became the story the party replaced you. It seems that the SNP have forgotten politics 101. Voters haven’t.
Dee, I think he described it as the least worst option, but what sturgeon offers isn’t democracy.
It’s a buyer’s market. Sturgeon thought it was a seller’s market.
“Dee, I think he described it as the least worst option”
No, Dee had it pretty much dead on.
“No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”
link to winstonchurchill.org
I love how much these ‘I’m With Nicola’ media people are prepared to expose not only their own allegiances, but also those of the people they’re desperately trying to defend.
Also loving their clear anguish, profound disappointment, barely capable of hiding ‘hand-wringing’ in print, every time Sturgeon gets another nail in her coffin.
Good work, Farqharson, splendid.
Herr Goebels would be impressed with the way the SNP can manufacture spin and lies at the drop of a hat. Mind you, when in a hole…………
@ Big Jock – Oh they already do blame Salmond and anyone else willing to look at all the evidence impartially and objectively.
I even had a fan girl use the totally unrelated and tragic killing in London of that young woman as an argument that because a man committed that heinous crime it stands to reason that I and Salmond are also guilty and that we have “learned nothing it seems…”
It is a pitiful and quite frankly ridiculous association to make and a truly pathetic argument but thats where we are with these fucking idiots.
Its not that they havnt understood what Sturgeon and her cabal have done, its that they CHOOSE not to acknowledge the collusion, criminality and corruption they have perpetrated… and they probable never will. A bit like the labour dinosaurs that still blame others for the collapse of the labour gov in the 1970s.
I get the feeling that Davis is in the corner of the pub smoldering away while Queen Nic and the man wolf are up on the dance floor doing a jig while holding open jerry cans of patrol,What could possibly go wrong.
Yes indeed Rev Campbell you did indeed warn of how this was going to play out. And the slide in the SNP, dramatic as it is, has much further to go.
One indicator of this is party membership of the SNP. Over the last eighteen to twenty four months the SNP membership has halved with around 60,000 members leaving. Now members of any political party, and not just the SNP, are usually more politically aware than the more ordinary voter in the street. The huge decline therefore in SNP membership is therefore an indicator, an advance indicator in fact, of the dissatisfaction that is now beginning to shred the SNP vote as we approach May.
A slide from around 57% to 46% may be an 11% reduction but expressed as a percentage of voters abandoning the SNP what we are actually looking at is over 20% of the SNP vote having departed.
And that trend will continue. Of that there is no doubt. Sturgeon and her top team will be gone along with many others. And in their place I believe there will be a new slew of elected members ready to continue with securing our independence.
Sturgeon and her top team have become toxic and the public, like the members who left, are now seeing it, and they don’t like it. And the slide is only going to get worse. From
Does this mean all these Sturgeonistas and new SNP members are all Unionists?
and there was me thinking wee Farq was a unionist.
So, is someone genuine going to show up, push the Greens out of nominal ‘other pro-indy party on the list’ spot and pledge to hold the SNP to account on any independence pledge if they tank to only ‘minority government’ status?
Considering this is about Kenny Farquharson shouldn’t this post have been entitled “The big waen”?
Oddly enough I’d been looking at the figures on ballotbox.scot a couple of hours before Rev Stu posted this.
Frankly the increase in SNP “support” seems directly linked to Boris Johnson & then Covid-19. ie nothing whatsoever to do with the SNP actually performing better.
The polling figures started to rise in December 2019 and peaked around August 2020. Since then they’ve been mainly falling but have been dropping rapidly since January.
I’d suggest this is almost entirely due to the vaccine rollout. The last couple of polls might reflect people becoming aware of what they THINK happened re Alex Salmond but I think the big hit from that is still to come.
tl;dr the SNP’s increased “support” almost wholly depends on Boris Johnson fucking things up & even then its not enough. They’ve failed.
No Ruby, it means that all the naive glory seeking block heads that used to infest the labour party just moved over to the SNP.
They came, they saw, they shat over everything and wrecked the show.
When did the 70 year old virgin John Curtice become a political correspondent rather than just a number cruncher?
I’ve been looking at the twitter support for Sturgeon and it’s my reckoning that she can count on At BEST 8,500 people for all-out do-or-die support and at least half of those are the woke-for- broke brigade. It’s not a lot when you consider that Mr Salmond collected over £100.000 from ‘supporters’ in under 48 hours when he’d been out of office for 5 years. That’s the ‘popularity’ that Sturgeon was trying to achieve. She didn’t clock that people didn’t necessarily like Mr Salmond but they DID respect him. She is rapidly losing any of that commodity if she ever had it from many. Although I am knocked out by her brass neck:-)
Dave Beveridge says:
19 March, 2021 at 11:49 am
“My favourite cultists are the ones who blame Alex Salmond for the timing of it all. Jonestown levels of delusion.”
Even if the allegations were true, why didn’t these women just “wheesht for indy” or be told to do just that?
I was told it would be the fault of “people like me” who are now abandoning the corrupt SNP.
I’d always thought Kenny F was a fellow independence supporter, certainly many of his articles and tweets state that. I don’t see this intervention any differently to the way he plumbed the depths of the rat infested sewers to defend that child grooming nonce Derek Mackay. He basically can’t accept any criticism of the Sturgeon cabal as he like many “journalists” have so invested his career in her, he’s another o the “Nicola Sturgein is oor ain Jacinda Ardern” crowd, that he can’t accept any criticism and Nicola Sturgeon “the most progressive world leader” must be defended at all costs, including personal integrity.
To be honest I’m not fussed about polls at the moment, the corruption that Nicola Sturgeon has forced on our governmental and legal institutions means that like Alex Salmond and Jim Sillars I do not think Scotland is able to become independent until the problems are sorted. Before anyone screams at me about being a yoon plant I am a lawyer so I fully understand the dangers. To create an independent country out of this unholy corrupt criminal mess would be extremely dangerous and could lead to Scotland slipping into a one party dictatorship of the kind we see in former soviet republics. People kid themselves that the independence movement is wider than the SNP, maybe it was in 2014 but the fact is that come 2021 the SNP have deliberately eradicated all other political parties in the independence movement.
People have to realise that the mythical 2021 ref is timed as such for one major reason, to give the SNP as much time as possible ( a full parliamentary term) to create a new country in a form that suits them. Make no mistake it would be the SNP calling the shots and setting up the legal frameworks and everyone else would be told to shut up. Nicola Sturgeon has become so corrupted and drunk on power that independence is now about her creating her own personal empire, nothing else. Whether that’s in the UK or as an independent country doesn’t really matter, it’s all about power and the ability that gives her to bask in the international arena and how to keep that power.
Sturgeon has to go, if the SNP was a properly function party with a depth of talent she would have been told to resign in 2019. None of these inquiries would have happened and she would have been forgotten and we could have moved on. Well she’s still there and we can’t move on. No one with an conscience or interest in creating a properly functioning independent country can vote SNP until the New SNP is dead and buried.
If, against all odds, Sturgeon and her wokie crew manage to retain power, independence will be delayed for at least 10 years until we can be rid of her and regroup under a pro-independence leadership. If there’s a unionist coalition, Westminster will remove all decision-making from Scotland and make sure it’s more like a century.
I think it’s all going swimmingly for the Unionist opposition at Holyrood at the moment. They only need to sit back and watch from here on in. Their objective at this election is to ensure no overall majority for the SNP. That’s all. Not to win. Not to be in government. You get the same money without the responsibilities anyway. Post Covid and the economic problems? No thanks.
Stopping Indy remains their only policy this year (again). Looks like they’ll succeed. We all know the MSM are keeping their powder dry till April, probably the second week. Then a shitstorm of epic proportions will descend on the heads of the SNP. They won’t be able to do the door to door they claim is their biggest advantage. If this site is anything to go by they’ve lost a lot of worker bees from past campaigns. Maybe the new 10000 wokie members will replace them, who knows.
However, brings us to WoS. Who will work, daily, to debunk the lies of the MSM? This ragbag of shysters, liars, disloyal, indy hating, Yoon supporting , MI5 planted wankers so hated by the SNP that Sturgeon threatened de-fenestration if you so much as read it?
Rev you’d need to grow 4 new arms and buy 4 new computers to keep up with your debunking and exposures.
Maybe the SNP clowns should have thought longer and harder before pissing off the most influential support network they clearly thought they didn’t have.
Stupid c****s.
Alex Salmond didn’t choose the timing of the report to Police .Sturgeon did. Alex Salmond didn’t want to go to court. Surgeon did. Alex was found not guilty. Sturgeon maintained he was.
She has been alienating SNP voters throughout because of these actions. We can tell when someone ,even though they deny it, is up to their neck in something they shouldn’t be.
Next we have her enabling a host of personality disordered people to bypass the normal mechanisms of the party to introduce their Nirvana of free for all gender iD at expense it actual females rights, hard won over decades.
Membership silenced and neutered from contributing in any way.
New NEC selected in the hope of change quickly made redundant by affiliated groups comprising of the very people the SN P members got did of in the NEC elections.
No. This is all down to Sturgeon. Destroying the vehicle which offered a path to Indy, because of what she is. A control freak who sacks Ministers willy nilly, and states she will deal with it herself.
We all need each interval win Independence. That much is true.
However Sturgeon will never accomplish this no matter how well she presents to the public eye. She is one dimensional.
One route or no route, with no consideration of any alternative because she cannot consider that which she has not proposed herself.
She has but a fraction of Alex’s ability in that regard.
ahundredthidiot says:
19 March, 2021 at 12:05 pm
and there was me thinking wee Farq was a unionist.
Reply
He is!
Is that not why he is supporting Nicola Sturgeon?
Has Kenny Farquharson known Nicola Sturgeon since she was 16?
The old ‘just look at the polls’ defence not quite cutting it any more.
I’d removed my shortcut link to the once great, now atrocious WGD site about a week ago. Popped on yesterday. Give it one more chance. Article criticising Gorgeous George was pretty good. But previous article had a pop at attention seeking bloggers. Thinly veiled & all that. Goodness gracious me. Imagine, trying to get folk to read your blog. I wonder why he does his? So that folk dont read it, from a man who harvests his readership to pay for his new hoose. Petty & contemptable. When you pin your colours to the wrong mast, a sad sad day.
For all the (actual, real) hate directed at you for revealing and pursuing this, please take some comfort in those, like myself who fully appreciate the quality & importance of what you do. The tens of thousands of former SNP members, the readership numbers on your blog and sadly but inevitably the pro-indy voters who now have nobody to vote for in May (at least on constituency vote) & will likely just not turn out all know this is not your fault, or Craig Murrays, or Gordon Dangerfields. It is absolutely, completely & totally down to the absolute car crash of a leader who with everything in her favour, turned a 10-0 lead in front of an open goal into a catastrophic defeat & stadium ban. As she will soon be known, Nicola Fuckin Sturgeon.
So, they sent people up the river to get Kurtz… it went a bit pear-shaped and now Kurtz is chasing them down river and they’re pulling out of Vietnam.
What have we learned?
Fucked if I know. Don’t do it again, I suppose.
We only need to look at Sturgeon track record on anything to do with Independence and then think about and the only conclusion is the Unionist have done a bigger job at promoting Independence than any of the top brass in the SNP. What are the Sturgeonites voting for it can’t be Independence because she not bothered she couldn’t even bring herself to answer AUOB innervation to march.
@andy ellis 11:24
Very, very well said. It will take time but for once I think that adage that pols falsely trot out will be true: “lessons learned”. Let’s hope a few honest new faces – AFI, ISP, Independent – gain seats to help this healing and restart.
Willie at 12.02 said
‘And in their place I believe there will be a new slew of elected members ready to continue with securing our independence.’
Sadly part of that may be true Willie, that if the SNP do badly enough in the constituencies that the SNP No 1 list candidates all get elected, which means the other part might not be true…
Shocked @12.12
It’s a very sad day but I have to admit I agree with every word.
Women have been abandoned by the HCB and now I fear this administration is coming after you chaps.
I’m not trying to debunk all the measures in this proposed legislation but trial without jury makes me hugely suspicious.
link to thetimes.co.uk
Ruby says:
19 March, 2021 at 12:05 pm
“Does this mean all these Sturgeonistas and new SNP members are all Unionists?”
Looking at it logically the unionists have not been in power for what 13/14 years?
So the decline of Scotland [unless you think everything is okaykokey in which case you are as demented as those first two groups you mentioned] is entirely down to the SNP and SNP-Scot gov.
Therefore you cannot align the first two groups with the third as it just doesn’t GO.
You could TRY and say that the first two groups have MORPHED into the third but I doubt there much EVIDENCE to back that assertion up.
Nope this is entirely down to NATIONALISTS enjoying the trappings of POWER far too much and deluding their party membership and supporters for a considerable percentage of their time in office.
Do you think her giving up on Independence might have something to do with her hatred of Salmond?
‘The Dream Shall Never Die’
You’ll see you b&$!#%t I’ll make your dream turn into a nightmare and then I’ll kill it stone dead!
Bedtime reading
Fay Weldon – The Life and Loves of a She-Devil
Double, double, toil and trouble
Please just go Sturgeon and Murrell
@Nally Anders
That is simply terrifying. It essentially means that a man could be convicted on the say of one witness with no corroboration on the say of a judge. If this had been in place when Alex Salmond went to rial he would currently be serving a life sentence in the sex offenders wing of Perth Prison. Anyone else who crossed the party could also be disappeared in this way and there would be nothing anyone could do about it.
We have to stop these maniacs.
“ The reason Kenny Farquharson is bigging up Nicola Sturgeon is because he wants her to stay where she is, and he wants that because he knows she’s now absolute poison to any chance of a >50% Yes vote.”
Precisely, he’s a snake. I blocked him sometime ago. He now joins the wonderful David Leask.
@ScottieDog @ 12h45
I actually think Leasky’s got a couple of screws loose; Kenny’s just a yappy wee dug
Shocked says:
19 March, 2021 at 12:44 pm
@Nally Anders
That is simply terrifying. It essentially means that a man could be convicted on the say of one witness with no corroboration on the say of a judge.
Reply
Does the same not apply to women?
Frazerio says:
19 March, 2021 at 12:24 pm
I’d removed my shortcut link to the once great, now atrocious WGD site about a week ago. Give it one more chance. Article criticising Gorgeous George was pretty good. But previous article had a pop at attention seeking bloggers. Thinly veiled & all that. Goodness gracious me. Imagine, trying to get folk to read your blog. I wonder why he does his?’
I agree with your assesment about WGD – I used to love the wit and integrity he wrote with. Now I find it cringeworthy.
I noticed a change in his attitude around the time he got re-married to the American lad and brought him to Scotland to live.
Income security and immigration leverage? Who knows.
I did contribute to his new house, but it was more as a thank you for years gone by, in recognition of his illness. It was also a fairwell gift – he won’t get the time of day from me from now on. (Don’t think that will bother him to be honest).
I only buy the National now on days when it has a good front page, and to be honest I don’t find it worth reading anymore.
Sturgeon has become infected by the Identity politics gender fluid madness which is rampant within the political classes. I believe people like Nicola see this as a vehicle to attain supreme power.
Why are so many politicians victims of what was once considered if not a perversion, then certainly a dangerous delusion? Politics is stuffed with these people with a mission to save us all from “wrong headedness” or thought crimes.
I rumbled Miss Sturgeon when she blanked the President of the US, who could have been extremely valuable to an Independent Scotland, and insulted him by preferring to lead a Gay Parade instead.
This was not the action of a Minister with the interests of the Scottish people at heart, but the action of a demented ideologue on a quest for personal power. I resigned from the Party the following day and sent Nicola a two page letter explaining why.
I did not even receive an acknowledgement.
Hello wee monkey!
WTF?
Meanwhile on a different tack the Uber Woke support a one eyed one legged disabled trans black and minority ethnic focussed Bella Caledonia is heading down the tubes.
With its readership in shreds the online magazine that once started out with great promise is on its very last legs. But I suppose if you publish crap, support micro minority Woke causes, then it’s maybe a surprise that it’s lasted so long.
Goodbye!
I fear Kenny is on the glue.
My suspicion, as a member of the SNP, with fairly wide contacts across the country is that the reported spike in SNP membership is pretty genuine. There’s a but.
But, even though many of the new members appear to lack phone numbers… Active branches have been knocking in membership packs. Many of the new are returners. Those who aren’t, aren’t particularly woke, are old, young, Scottish, English and have given reasons for joining as disparate as “GRA”, “Boris”, “Nicola”, “pandemic”,”Alex”… There’s a but.
But these members report they DIDN’T all join recently. Some many months ago. Looks like there’s been “reasons” why details weren’t passed onto branches in a timely manner.
It’s all moot until we eventually publish membership figures.
Facundo Savala – what a guy!
I see that the slow thinker Ruby is with us.
So Ruby, just for you.
I am going to be campaigning in Glasgow Southside for Scottish Labour, BECAUSE THEY ARD THE ONLY CREDIBLE PARTY THAT CAN UNSEAT STURGEON. (Sarwar will get a seat no matter what)
So I am doing all I can to make sure she is kicked out of Scottish Politics for good.
And just for you thicko Ruby,,, this process can be repeated throughout Scotland.
I hope that was simple enough for you?
#Ruby hiznea a Scooby.
“If you’re going to have integrity in the Westminster Parliament or the Scottish Parliament, breaches of the ministerial code in either parliament ought to lead to a resignation,” Kier Starmer
Is he a member of Alex Salmond’s Westminster ‘old-boys’ network too, Nicola? Surely not.
After watching that surreal response from Nikla last night re the committe leak. Her new word is now ‘partisan’. What a joke. Its a pity she didnt share the same outrage at the leak from her Government offices to the Vow bog roll of a so called newspaper. Bullies like to dish it out but they sure as heck dont like it back at them.
Not enough for her to have an SNP Convener and a bunch of spineless SNP MSPs on the committee softballing her loaded questions and obstructing said inquiry every step of the way from doing their job. Now she says they were against her from the start. Aw diddums.
Is this really a competent grown up leader leading us to our freedom. I think not. From selfie queen to selfish cretin standing deliberately in the way of our nations independence and running down the clock on behalf of the unionists. Who the actual fuck is she. Will never forgive her or her cronies.
Lessons on how NOT to run a country. Thanks for your tireless endevours on this saga right from the start. You put the msm to shame. If they had done their job she’d have been gone way before now.
Where has the £600,000 ring fenced Independence money gone?
The SNP party don’t appear to have much money left and membership numbers have plummeted.
Any remaining members of the party should reduce their monthly fee to the absolute minimum and message the party that the fees will be increased back when we get indy ref2 in place. Bankrupt party or Indy ref 2.
Although I have left the SNP now the previous membership fees are safely in a bank account under my control and ready once ind ref 2 is in place. At present the money might stay in that account until I pass on.
Hit them where it hurts until they do what they were elected to do.
I am a unionist and find no joy and nothing to celebrate in the current debacle. It is sad, slightly scary and more than a bit worrying. The level of manipulation, division and deceit is sick-making. As a unionist I do not fear a resurgence of Mr. Salmond but I do believe, deeply and sincerely that he has been stitched up like a kipper and that this is profoundly and fundamentally wrong.
Willie says:
19 March, 2021 at 12:02 pm
Yes indeed Rev Campbell you did indeed warn of how this was going to play out. And the slide in the SNP, dramatic as it is, has much further to go.
One indicator of this is party membership of the SNP. Over the last eighteen to twenty four months the SNP membership has halved with around 60,000 members leaving.
Please excuse my scepticism Willie, but where do you get that figure? The SNP have been refusing to publish membership figures for some time now.
It was a lovely day yesterday and its another lovely day today, I am renovating my house, selling up and getting out.
Where am I going to, somewhere lovely and peaceful, still in scotland btw.
There’s a lot to be said for having a house and land in two different countries and I recommend it entirely.
As for the SNP at present, I feel really sad for scotland and the generations to come for what these rogues have done, but I am to long in the tooth to care any longer.
I have a good life, I provided for myself because I know through experience, if you want someone you can rely on, just look in the mirror, that person never lets you down.
My best wishes to everyone who is reading this, and even the people that might never read it I wish only happiness.
Its a sad and difficult time, but hey, William Wallace came through a lot worse.
Alba Gu Bra
Sturgeon never admits to being wrong.
It us always somebody else who caused the problem.
It is always somebody else’s fault.
But as we are seeing, she is running out of people to blame.
The circle is closing in on her.
And fingers crossed, she will very shortly be caught in a noose.
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 1:04 pm
I see that the slow thinker Ruby is with us.
So Ruby, just for you.
I am going to be campaigning in Glasgow Southside for Scottish Labour, BECAUSE THEY ARD THE ONLY CREDIBLE PARTY THAT CAN UNSEAT STURGEON. (Sarwar will get a seat no matter what)
So I am doing all I can to make sure she is kicked out of Scottish Politics for good.
And just for you thicko Ruby,,, this process can be repeated throughout Scotland.
I hope that was simple enough for you?
#Ruby hiznea a Scooby.
The usual thoroughly unpleasant excrement from the politically challenged Ross Kilbride. You need to apologise to Ruby, you thug. Bullying women is just going to get the wokies set on us, surely even you can see that.
What part of ‘If the SNP lose the constituency in Glasgow Southside Sturgeon will get in on the list‘ are you still struggling with?
I don’t understand how he thinks she has won the first battle. Surely nobody believes that there wasn’t a conspiracy?
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 1:15 pm
Sturgeon never admits to being wrong.
You and her seem to have that in common.
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 1:04 pm
I see that the slow thinker Ruby is with us.
So Ruby, just for you.
I am going to be campaigning in Glasgow Southside for Scottish Labour, BECAUSE THEY ARD THE ONLY CREDIBLE PARTY THAT CAN UNSEAT STURGEON. (Sarwar will get a seat no matter what)
So I am doing all I can to make sure she is kicked out of Scottish Politics for good.
And just for you thicko Ruby,,, this process can be repeated throughout Scotland.
I hope that was simple enough for you?
#Ruby hiznea a Scooby.
Reply
Is it Anas Sarwar you want to see as First Minister?
When you are out there campaigning in Glasgow Southside take care you don’t breach any Covid laws and probably best not to call people names. Saying “Vote for Anas Sarwar you fuckin thicko!” won’t help you win votes and could land you in trouble!
You say:
“And just for you thicko Ruby,,, this process can be repeated throughout Scotland.”
How can someone campaign for Anas Sarwar in Edinburgh Central?
If this all goes to shit, then we need a one issue independence party to get independence, see us through the transition period and negotiations and then disband. No left no right just Indy.
TODAY. Craig Murray has posted a personal video on YouTube.
It’s 55 minutes long and I’ll be watching it later.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
@Ruby
Yes. Typed in haste, might be wrong on the corroboration thing as I thought they were going to try and abolish it again but maybe not. Still sinister as hell.
When you think of the position she inherited and the opportunities she had, it would make you weep. A capable leader would have built up such a head of steam for indy by now that nothing would stop it. Instead, she chose to attack her own party and supporters.
Of course the tories et al will drip feed revelations into the media between now and May. But if past form is anything to go by they will hold back the bombshell until one or two days before the election. That kind of strategy has worked in elections previously. Nikla, of course, is useless as a strategic thinker. What kind of strategy was it to traduce Salmond in such a way that the repercussions would emerge just before the election?
A sad day, but there is no point in believing any of these fools and liars could deliver indy, and if they could it would likely be catastrophically bungled anyway.
Ross Kilbride says:
I am going to be campaigning in Glasgow Southside for Scottish Labour
Reply
Do you need a bodyguard?
I could help you out! My fees are reasonable?
Perhaps all the following should go, NS, mr murrell, mr swinney, miss evens and miz loyd, and a certain lord advocate, then the woke brigade, and the master of the hate crime bill. And the greens.
And because the alternative is still not to vote for for princess orange Ruthie, or limp labour, and libs.
I would expect the other independence parties to stick their necks out a bit further so Scottish people have a democracy that is not a one horse race in future.
Ruby says:
19 March, 2021 at 12:37 pm
“Bedtime reading
Fay Weldon – The Life and Loves of a She-Devil”
St Nic thought it was an instruction manual rather than a novel.
Scots Renewables
A chancer fae Kent.
Bartleby64 says:
19 March, 2021 at 1:09 pm
I am a unionist and find no joy and nothing to celebrate in the current debacle. It is sad, slightly scary and more than a bit worrying. The level of manipulation, division and deceit is sick-making. As a unionist I do not fear a resurgence of Mr. Salmond but I do believe, deeply and sincerely that he has been stitched up like a kipper and that this is profoundly and fundamentally wrong.
Great credit to you, for caring most about truth not advantage, & for speaking up!
-from an Independence-seeker (also a decentralisation-seeker)
The difficulty with removing ‘them’ from the SNP is that ‘they’ are what passes for the political class not just in Scotland but in many western countries. The reason they will not step down is that they don’t see why they should do what the boomer, misogynistic racists are want as we are everything that’s wrong with the world. Only by smashing the patriarchy will we reach the promised land.
For me the lasting memory of the last indyref was the fact that ordinary people spent weekends/evenings going round the doors, standing at stalls, organising events without our ‘betters’ telling us how we had to speak or act. As the campaign went on and the professional arseholes jumped on the campaign they tried to control the ‘message’.
The problem is that as soon as any new party starts to gain support the arseholes will take control and turn it into a vehicle for their rather twisted view of the world.
Angry Weegie says:
19 March, 2021 at 12:15 pm
“If, against all odds, Sturgeon and her wokie crew manage to retain power, independence will be delayed for at least 10 years until we can be rid of her and regroup under a pro-independence leadership. If there’s a unionist coalition, Westminster will remove all decision-making from Scotland and make sure it’s more like a century.”
How do we regroup when we are all gagged by draconian new hate crime laws and all females are relegated to Handmaidens to the nouveau girls – the chicks with dicks?
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 1:22 pm
Scots Renewables
ADVERTISING AGAIN.
HE ONLY USES WINGS OVER SCOTLAND TO PUT A LINK TO HIS COMMERCIAL BUSINESS UP.
DON’T HIT HIS BLUE NAME.
THE GUY IS NOT INTERESTED IN SCOTLAND.
HE IS USING WINGS AS HIS OWN PERSONAL EBAY SITE.
IGNORE HIM.
Well, you obviously didn’t click it, because it takes you to the top of this page.
I explained the reason for that yesterday.
You are a liar, pal. An out and out liar.
Worse than Sturgeon.
Saltire blue is (or should be) Pantone 300.
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 1:26 pm
Scots Renewables
A chancer fae Kent.
Liar. Total fucking scumbag liar.
Think if Sturgeon survives all this her Uni nickname of seaweed will take on a new meaning
Vestas says:
19 March, 2021 at 12:06 pm
“tl;dr the SNP’s increased “support” almost wholly depends on Boris Johnson fucking things up & even then its not enough. They’ve failed.”
Nail on head. St.Nic’s daily, Putinesque covid briefings have not really succeeded in channelling the imminent “halo effect” for vaccination that’s coming to every head of state (for no deserved reason whatsoever) towards her, either.
And if Sturgeon goes now, whoever steps up will merely be a Sturgeonite on a damage limitation mission. Who are the rising stars(sic) of the party? Well, there’s our friend Humza. Joanna Cherry et al teleporting into Bute House to save the day is a fantasy, sorry.
We are looking at a go-around for independence and a 5-10 year project of winning over moderate unionists, especially the rump of ScotLab voters, to a party and a flavour of independence politics outside of the SNP.
Captain Yossarian says:
19 March, 2021 at 11:37 am
Mix everything up for a few weeks more, then throw in a hand-grenade. That’s what I think is going to happen now.
Once you start threatening The Spectator and Guido Fawkes and folk like that, then it’s only going to end one way.
Plus, I don’t think David Davis is finished yet”
Finally we agree on something.
And I would argue that ‘has’ always been Neil / Spectator intention. And she/NS has walked wide eyed deluded into that yoon bombardment
The Party in Power stitch up their political opponent and try to put him in jail for 18 years on heinous fake charges in a disastrous attempt to cling on to power and pass ‘hate speech’ laws to designed to imprison dissenting voices and extend legislation to make illegal any attempt by a once free people to protest.
Modern day Scotland.
Doug Daniel tweets to say he was looking at some old SNP campaign stuff from 2016. He posts a picture of one of those big hands with the slogans ‘Both Votes SNP’ and ‘I’m With Nicola’ on it. Doug says these messages have never been so pertinent.
They are dogged in defence, some of these Sturgeonites. I’ll give them that. There might come a time though when the only folk ‘With Nicola’ are her co-accused beside her in the dock.
Buggers up the assertion that “both votes SNP” is stupid though.
scotsrenewables
You are obviously fucking up your link to website addresses.
And going by your excuse the other day…..do you not have a GDPR issue on your hands?
(I think you said you had a web thingy business and the dog pound business link was to a customer – so either you are incompetent at your own bloody job, or you’re going around sticking your clients business details on social media chat sites – which makes you a half-wit)
Hear, Hear, Stuart well put.
Mind and duck though, some folk will still shoot the messenger.
KF is a liar too.
Hi Ross Kilbride.
You obviously have a wasp in your knickers about Scots Renewables.
If you click on the blue Scots Renewables link, this is what you find:-
link to wingsoverscotland.com
How is that advertising HIS business?
Remember the good old days when we were up against a biased BBC, a unionist MSM, Obama, The Queen, Broonie, Blair, Mr Cameron and the numpties in ScotLab.
ah, the good old days.
Now we have the SNP to contend with as well. Talk about an uphill struggle – but really…….would we have it any other way?
Scottish Independence – we really are going to have to earn it.
Jack Murphy says:
TODAY. Craig Murray has posted a personal video on YouTube
________
A difficult video to watch and HEAR . If only he has used a microphone.
ahundredthidiot says
(I think you said you had a web thingy business and the dog pound business link was to a customer – so either you are incompetent at your own bloody job, or you’re going around sticking your clients business details on social media chat sites – which makes you a half-wit)
Reply
I would have thought sticking your clients business details on social media chat sites would be all part of good SEO?
@Ross Kilbride says: 19 March, 2021 at 1:22 pm
Scots Renewables
ADVERTISING AGAIN.
HE ONLY USES WINGS OVER SCOTLAND TO PUT A LINK TO HIS COMMERCIAL BUSINESS UP.
DON’T HIT HIS BLUE NAME.
THE GUY IS NOT INTERESTED IN SCOTLAND.
HE IS USING WINGS AS HIS OWN PERSONAL EBAY SITE.
IGNORE HIM.”
Quite aside from the fact the link did nothing of the kind, I wonder whether your real problem is sour grapes that your own attempts at being a businessman failed?
Mark Boyle
Mark, Another Flat Earther Sturgeon Ultra.
The man from kent (scots reusable)
Must have got his collar felt by the Rev.
Wandering through the chaos
the battle has left
we climb up a mountain of human flesh
to a plateau, of green grass and green trees
full of life
a young figure sits still by a pool
has been stamped human bacon
by some butchery tool
he is you
Scottish social security
took care of this lad
we watch in reverence
as narcissus is turned to a flower…..
SUPPERS READY, (b side) GENESIS ALBUM FOXTROT (1972)
The difficulty with removing ‘them’ from the SNP is that ‘they’ are what passes for the political class not just in Scotland but in many western countries. The reason they will not step down is that they don’t see why they should do what the boomer, misogynistic racists are want as we are everything that’s wrong with the world. Only by smashing the patriarchy will we reach the promised land.
This can’t be overstated. The rise of the woke professional class is a problem bedeviling virtually every Western country.
They hate their own countrymen, and they hate normal people. It’s as simple as that, though the solution isn’t simple at all. The SNP isn’t going to get any better with the influx of woke grievance merchants hoping to make a lucrative career out of endlessly lecturing average Scots about their supposed racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia, biphobia, arachnophobia, etc. etc. etc. forever. If your only qualification for being an MSP is self-IDing as some flavour of minority, what else can you offer? Democracy has been turned on its head, we’re ruled by people who openly despise us.
A strange game, the only winning move is to huckle them all into a big spaceship and fire it at the sun.
The site GRASS has arrived.
Where people mysteriously disappear.
You know who I am talking about.
Vote Scottish Labour in the Glasgow Southside Constituency.
Kick the Bastard Sturgeon out of Scottish Politics for good.
Rinse and Repeat throughout Scotland.
Vote for the most credible candidate who will UNSEAT your SNP candidate.
Cleanse the Scottish Parliament on the 6th May.
Ross Kilbride
Many on here have abandoned the SNP because they have morphed into “Scottish Labour”.
We cannot forget the disaster Labour have been for Scotland there is a smell coming from any Labour administration.
Dodgy doesn’t cover it.
@Nally Anders and Shocked who are concerned about jury-less courts
Known as Diplock courts, they have been in existence in NI since the 1973 for criminal cases that were/are linked to the Irish Troubles (terrorist offences).
The judge acts as judge, jury and executioner and tends to convict more than normal courts
Over the centuries, non-jury courts seem to be part of Westminster’s response to “insurgency”, whatever form it takes.
Remember the Scottish independence movement is insurgency as far as Westminster is concerned, even though there is no armed uprising like at Culloden or 1916 in Ireland. There isn’t even widespread property damage such as occurred in the London riots of a few years back.
Here’s a post with some FAQ about non-jury (Diplock) courts and some videos
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
Following on from Red 2.12.
Yes indeed.
And the problem with ‘the partriarchy’ is that it is an abstract concept.
How does one attempt to smash an abstract concept?
Well, you simply point the finger at actual individual people that you don’t happen to like, and you says that they are it.
All eyes London tomorrow.
What are the chances that the committee vote leak last night came from one of the SNP members? Don’t see what the yoons on the committee have to gain from it, whereas it fits with the current SNP m.o of slash and burn. A lot of the Sturgeonista FB brigade are apoplectic and doubling down on the blind faith so it would certainly have done the job in that respect.
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 2:08 pm
Mark Boyle
Mark, Another Flat Earther Sturgeon Ultra.
The man from kent (scots reusable)
Must have got his collar felt by the Rev.
How sad.
The truth is, you are just a serial liar and fantasist.
Are you Nicola? Lol
@Shocked
As a Kilted Kiwi I can confirm that La Sturgeon is no Jacinda Ardern. Maybe ours is waiting in the wings for Sturgeon’s demise with only a month to go before the election then taking up the reins and leading the SNP to victory.
Sturgeon also has a long way to go to get a picture of her projected to the Burj Khalifa as well.
Ardern’s deft, genuinely heartfelt, reaction to the Christchurch shootings made Moslem New Zealanders into genuine Kiwis taken into everyone’s hearts.
NZ already had friends in the Middle East due to trading links. We are mates with Iran even. Both pretty much non aligned, we sell them sheepmeat, butter and agritech. We helped them set up a kiwifruit growing scheme and sold them appropriate cultivars for eg.
But Ardern has won us more and deeper friends.
The great Helen Clark as PM won us trading and travel links across the Pacific with Peru and Chile. She speaks fluent Spanish so spoke to them without interpreters.
Since her trip to Dublin to address the Seanad Sturgeon has hardly left these shores. In comparison with the two NZ PM’s mentioned she is a minnow.
OT
Wee Freudian slip from Mr Biden ‘now, when President Harris and I….’
Just watched Craig’s video.
No wonder he’s depressed.
I’m depressed now.
Ross Kilbride, pipe it down a bit, squire. I’m not saying I disagree with anything you’ve typed, just don’t be dragged into a sewer war… we’ve had enough of that stuff.
Anyway, I agree with your more substantial point — vote to remove them. Every last one. We can sort oit a new strategy for achieving independence later.
The SNP membership allowed all this to happen because Sturgeon dangled the promise of “next year for sure” in front of them and they wanted desperately to believe her.
You can’t drive people to make a decision like independence – you have to lead them.
Sturgeon was great at leading the faithful but appalling at making a case for independence that would convince the doubters. The result was that her message became more and more discordant to those not already convinced.
Indy support would never have peaked above 50% without the pandemic but even with Sturgeons huge popularity and daily comparisons with Bo-job she just basked in the spotlight and wasted the chance.
There won’t be a referendum this year or next and if there was it would be a louder No. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themself.
Bit rambling from Craig but understandable given the legal constraints and how long he’s been waiting for a verdict.
People ought to be aware that’s not the worst of it.
Very well done Craig Murray. You might be nearly 20 years on from the last time you exposed govts but you haven’t lost it.
o/t
And apologies for interrupting some of the personal comments directed at other posters
Those of you who have been contributing to this site for well feels like a very long will probably remember when the rot started to set in , we had the failed attempt gaining independence after a bit of nothing happening people started to argue and the bickering started everyone was at a loose end ,
then a distinct change in the amount of unionist propaganda it went from say a 5 nothing to get bothered about to a 8 and folk started to notice then it was full on 10 it was relentless , I and a lot of people started questioning why is our side not returning Fire , and what’s more how was the planing going on preparing for the next big push that we would possibly win , on both counts we had silence we got the rubber ear from the one party we were relying on to harness all this energy and put it to good use again silence,
Leadership is missing has been missing and continues to be missing ,this Independence movement is rudderless and without leadership and direction, it seems as if this SNPs only aim is to continue in power not really doing anything much just remain in position
The British government have been given a free reign working away setting up a parallel parliament right in the centre of Edinburgh , response ? Zero nothing the danger of this was pointed out in the planning stage even before anything was started on this new colonial outpost again not a word
The only reason we have other Independence parties starting up is because of the abject failure of Nicola Sturgeons leadership , the unionist parties are pretty well pleased because she and her party don’t in anyway pose a threat the question of independence is well under control in the hands of Nicola Sturgeon because she ain’t moving and that’s exactly what Bawjaws wants.
Here’s the Hootsman having a laugh…
“Alex Salmond inquiry has ‘resorted to baseless assertion, supposition and smear’, says Nicola Sturgeon spokesperson…”
‘Resorted to’? But, but, … this was how it all started! Baseless assertions, suppositions and smear targeting Alex Salmond, and a degree of malice, collusion and criminal conspiracy thrown in for good measure. Do keep up Hootsman!
Still, it’s only the Hootsman. It’s not like many people are going to read it…
link to archive.is
link to caltonjock.com
The views of the vast majority of Scots have been bypassed by politicians at Holyrood who are determined to impose gender neutralism on the nation. It appears other governments in the UK are ready to embrace and legislate in the same way. The portents for the future health and wellbeing of our nation are unhealthy. But there is a better solution. Ask the people to decide the way forward in a referendum. Thank goodness the Australians have seen sense.
I would advise all posters to ignore “Ross Kilbride”, you can tell from the way he constructs his sentences that he is the same person who has posted in the past as “Ronald Fraser” or “Lawrence” among other names. He is a troll who comes here purely to spout abuse, I’m not sure he even has an agenda.
Unlimiter says:
19 March, 2021 at 2:45 pm
” A lot of the Sturgeonista FB brigade are apoplectic and doubling down on the blind faith so it would certainly have done the job in that respect.”
I’m going to have to stay off it for a couple of days. It’s making me sick.
Re. ‘The Big Win’
Aye, and the 3-1 defeat by Peru was the first step towards Scotland’s 1978 World Cup win.
Heady days.
link to craigmurray.org.uk Great vlog by Craig today instead of his usual written blog
A lot of these “dismayed” outpourings by various enquiry types mention “selective” leaks. How “selective” are they, actually? Are we talking actual omissions of facts or not?
Breeks @ 3.07
So a Parliamentary Committee which has been hampered all along by Scot Gov is now being publicly denegrated by NS who is backed up by Patrick Harvey as well?
WTF!!!
@LaingB French says:
19 March, 2021 at 2:10 pm
“we watch in reverence as narcissus is turned to a flower…..”
A FLOWER?
o/t
For the the lurkers who never visit Wings over Scotland
This version of the SNP won’t deliver a Indyref2 referendum , not now ,not ever that’s not fiction because no plans are in place , no constitution is in place where can we find and read the vision of this emerging country Scotland ,can it be found anywhere is it a secret ? .
Has the current SNP Government just cost the taxpayers over half a million pounds in a failed vendetta in order to silence one man , has the current management of the SNP failed to protect women who came forward with complaints about a former First Minister, have the SNP Government been and still are obstructing their own investigation in the guise of a Holyrood inquiry
Now even the stupidest among you and there are many team Sturgeon supporters can’t ignore what has been the most serious fuck up in Scottish political history nothing comes close
Shouting La La La very loud while closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears won’t make it all go away ,
And don’t even start with oh Why did Princess Nicola Have to leave the Legal profession oh she forgot about that little episode in her life just like she has amnesia about other things like dates
Ian – If Hamilton finds against Sturgeon. No doubt she will claim he was prejudiced by the enquiry decision…an it goes on and on.
Scotland needs to go back to basics in its constitution: man = adult human male; boy =juvenile human male. Woman = adult human female; girl = juvenile human female. Sex is immutable. There are only 2 sexes. That is the best start Scotland can have.
Hey Stuart, wondering if you may want to update the name of this site to Cassandra over Scotland. I for one am very mindful of the complete typhoon of petulant anger, sulkiness and, most hilariously, accusations of working for “MI5”, or the lizard people, whatever. You called it on the gender/trans rights infiltration, you called it on the ringfenced money, you called it on the clown car of the attempted Salmond stitch up, and you called it on the now crystal clear shortcomings of the current leadership and her way too cosy inner circle. Thanks, that must have been shite.
Being an optimist, I believe that there is a greater good that all of this nightmare will lead us towards. I don;t quite see it yet, but still.
Also, I will bear your child if you would please, please enable an edit capacity on the BTL comments. This is probably logistically impossible, but still. A boy can dream.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
From the excellent Jim Sillars. He’s a measured chap but can deliver a killer blow all-right and he’s as deadly as ever.
Interesting that he names Liz Lloyd and James Wolffe as being as rotten as a maggot-ridden carcass. That’s just about the way I saw it too.
Interesting he says that Liz Lloyd offered to attend the Inquiry but only with two personal lawyers present and only if she wasn’t asked certain questions. Commottee members had to sign their agreement to this.
Time for the two of them to be hucked-off to the Metropolitan Police. They have alternative and much more efficient means of achieving public justice.
You know we are fucked when Quizzers like Kenny Farquharson are covering for the Traitors like Sturgeon.
Very good vlog by Craig Murray. If your looking in Craig, take care of yourself and thanks for all your doing.
I have 2 hopes now. That this May sees the SNP suffer a rout – and I have voted for them all my life, so that is a big turn around for me.
But the sheer lack of will or ability by SNP members to clean out their own stables of this corruption – means that the voters will have to do so.
Even then I doubt if Sturgeon will go, or else one of her accolytes will be the replacement. But hell mend them, the complacent, spineless, seat warmers currently keeping their heads down, when they should be standing up and whistleblowing CRIMINAL LEVELS OF SNP CORRUPTION, need the sack. Overwhelmingly.
My second hope is that the new Indy parties gain enough seats, and political momentum to make the next GE about Plebiscite Indy. After that, given what appears to me in Perthshire, the very large numbers of lovely English People (British to the core) who are moving into the area, after that, Scotland is truely fucked. (With apologies to the lovely English People in Scotland who support Indy – but I think you will agree you are not a majority.)
Really, when all the smoke clears away, we will be no further forward – as has always been intended. Certainly, from 2016, there was never even a modicum of intention that independence would be pushed through. Some in the parliamentary party might have fooled themselves and/or others, but there has been no realistic attempt to push for independence since 2014; and a concerted effort to avoid it.
I think it is a bit more than just the usual me-ist agenda, though, dependent on devolution continuing and independence being sidelined, while fat salaries are consumed (although that is, undoubtedly, part of it). Independence, I think, had to be derailed, not just allowed to wither on the vine, because of the time factor. To that end, the whole Salmond affair has worked out rather neatly, if unfortunately. If it had not been him and the #metoo, another pretext would have been found, but a salacious sex scandal is always worth the candle in that context.
Independistas are fond of saying that independence is bigger than any single individual. Unfortunately, stopping it is, for the Unionists and Westminster, bigger than any single individual; and, for the pseudo ‘wokerati’, ditto. For the moment, they will be allowed to continue with their scorched earth/flat earth policies to bring Holyrood to heel, but they should be warned that Westminster and the Tories will prove a very different subject for infiltration and take over. Tories are notoriously impervious to emotional blackmail and always ready to wield the stiletto or to let nuisances swing in the wind when they are no longer of any use to them.
There may well be independence at the end of all this, but it will not be achieved in the way that most of us would have wanted, and I think we are about to descend into something very dark now as the whole movement breaks apart and reforms. Any Unionist who believes it’s the end of it, needs to think again. Basically, we are at the beginning of the final leg and it is going to get really bloody, if only metaphorically, and very much more cold and calculating.
Arguably, had we been much more cold and calculating after September 19, 2014, we might well be independent today. Five hundred civil service jobs relocated to Scotland are 500 more NO votes (or that’s what they think, and they might be right, as we begin, finally, to understand the colonial overtones of the anti independence movement) and this is just the beginning. The stupendous miscalculations from 2014 to now are coming home to roost.
Anything here sound familiar? Context is the aftermath of Pat Kane’s controversial win in Glasgow Uni Rectorial Election.
[1990]: ‘When the new SRC met two days later in the Williams Room of the John McIntyre Building, Kane’s involvement in the recent executive elections was discussed at length, with Sturgeon offering a robust defence of the new Rector. She did not, according to the minutes, ‘accept the rules had been broken and questioned the position of [the] SRC President’, accusing him (Cathcart) of ‘sour grapes’ given that Kane had only backed GUSNA candidates. Under questioning, Sturgeon also maintained that Kane was not bound by the SRC constitution and, when Sandy MacKinnon pointed out that the election guidelines stated that ‘non-matriculated persons cannot solicit votes for candidates’, Sturgeon retorted that GUSNA had solicited help from Kane rather than the other way round, which of course did not really address the point. Finally, MacKinnon asked for confirmation the Rector knew of the content of the controversial leaflet, to which Sturgeon simply replied ‘yes’. Despite Sturgeon’s best efforts, the SRC endorsed a motion critical of Kane’s actions. Not long afterwards, Cathcart was surprised to receive an apologetic phone call from Kane at his mother’s council house in Linwood.’
From Torrance, David; Nicola Sturgeon . Birlinn.
SRC is Students Representative Council.
GUSNA is Glasgow University Scottish Nationalist Association.
I don’t believe Sturgeon should just be able to walk away if she resigns, a victim of a unionist plot.
There can be little doubt that she has broken the law along with Wolffe ,Swinney and others close to her so they should be prosecuted. Only then will all the evidence of corruption and lies be exposed for all to see and the truth of what happened to AS laid bare for all to see.
The fairy godmother has visited the SNP, offered the independence golden ticket and been thrown out for being too cis.
Gotta feeling she wont be back.
Ingrates!
Fortunately, that golden ticket is still available….to whoever dares to take it.
@captainyossarian
Jim Sillars, a great man with principles, just like his sadly missed wife.
Jim could make his case for independence rationally and intelligently and had the respect of his opponents for that very reason, just like Alex Salmond. They understood that politics is about convincing people and that demonising your opponents doesn’t help to turn them to your cause.
Contrast that to the screaming torn faced power obsessed evil harpy that we now have as FM. The sooner that parasite is cast out onto the street and then thrown in jail the better.
@McDuff
I am hoping, maybe falsely, that when parliament dissolves and sturgeon and her bagman, the creep John Swinney, are no longer FM and deputy that if any decent persons still exist in the crown office that they find their backbones and move to start a criminal investigation into them. Maybe once that pair have no power reality will bite them in the arse.
It’s quite unprecedented to have people standing for election that most of the electorate know have broken the law, it’s a ridiculous state of affairs and has to be dealt with.
Garrion – You can only do what’s right , and your conscience is clear. One day will will all be proved right. Until that day we have to just keep on truckin.
Scotland is bigger than all of us.
Did I hear radio news right today, that Sturgeon has hired a law firm to look into how the committee came to the decision that she misled parliament.
Ross Kilbride: I’m in an exceptionally forgiving mood today so I’m going to give you one warning about personal abuse of other posters. This is it. There will be no second warning.
I see Sturgeon is upset at the report being leaked, however she wasn’t upset at the leak to the Daily Record that smeared Alex Salmond.
Did I hear radio news right today, that Sturgeon has hired a law firm to look into how the committee came to the decision that she misled parliament.
==========================
Assuming you heard correctly Republicofscotland, I wonder if that is SNP money paying or herself paying…..think we know the answer to that.
Also I see the Crown Office is looking into who the whistleblower was that informed David Davis, but again no such luck on the Daily Record leak
Sounds like Patrick Harvie is trying to line up a job with Rape Crisis Scotland.
Republicofscotland @4:53
“…that Sturgeon has hired a law firm..”
It certainly won’t be Bell & Craig.
Lorna Campbell @ 4:35 pm
Arguably, had we been much more cold and calculating after September 19, 2014, we might well be independent today. Five hundred civil service jobs relocated to Scotland are 500 more NO votes (or that’s what they think, and they might be right, as we begin, finally, to understand the colonial overtones of the anti independence movement) and this is just the beginning. The stupendous miscalculations from 2014 to now are coming home to roost.
***
It’s actually worse than that. It’s a humungous big 500 job-losses stick with nails in it to batter the Yes movement with. Consequent effect on local businesses and economy, etc. Same with the other civil service jobs coming to Glasgow.
Say what you like about Boris and his crew of right-wing nutjobs, but they’re absolutely running circles round these lightweights in Holyrood.
Still, Nicola always stops for a selfie eh?
Not one to buck the trend just for the sake of it, but having decided to absolutely, definitely, not vote SNP I am having second thoughts. I certainly do not want to give my endorsement to the current crop of criminals driving the bus, but I do want a pro-independence majority, that neither the ISP or AFI seem likely to achieve just yet.
I know the problem is that the SNP is corrupted to the point that normal democratic means cannot be used to guide it’s course, but I reckon that they have only got away with that due to the pandemic. As soon as we can get out on the streets again we can put pressure on them that cannot be muted or simply “not scheduled”.
That is not something we can do with any of the Westminster based parties – their leadership can simply ignore the “trouble in the provinces” and leave it to their branch leaders to to use as fuel against us.
Denise Findlay made an interesting point about ballots being inspected and still valid if the clear impression was made that the vote was intended, even if not marked by the customary cross in the box. This must be seen by all the contestants and agreed. What a clear way to give a vote, yet register a protest. But what short, simple phrase to use? “INDI” was my 1st thought, but NS might think that meant “I Never Did It” and assume support. TICK seemed more appropriate – both a tick in the box and also the certain beat of time. Which is nearly up for the schemers.
Aye, so I reckon give them our vote – they might think that equals another 5 years endorsement, but feet on the street can soon wake up the woke!
“Aye, so I reckon give them our vote – they might think that equals another 5 years endorsement, but feet on the street can soon wake up the woke!”
That’s utterly wishful thinking, I’m afraid. As we’ve documented at some length, there is now no effective means for the party membership to have any impact on either policy or strategy.
It beggars believe but the committee leak helps sturgeon she can now say that it’s party political and backed up with the chairs comments the leak and the make up the committee become the story not the fact she lies like normal people breath
When you become the subject of discussion, rather than your party and their policies, it’s time to go.
Steve. Sturgeon is so shifty. She would get a job at a criminal college for trainee bank robbers. No matter what decision any court or enquiry makes. She has an answer to it.
Shoot the messenger and run away.
Republicofscotland says:
19 March, 2021 at 5:05 pm
Also I see the Crown Office is looking into who the whistleblower was that informed David Davis, but again no such luck on the Daily Record leak
____________
They narrowed the Record leak down to 23 . With this they will narrow it down to about 2.3M .
When Ruthie take sup her position in the House of Lords I’m fairly sure that she will have a fair amount to say on record with immunity about Nicola.
Sturgeon’s favourite song.
“Born Slippy”
It’s over. Irrespective of James Hamilton QC. When you make the front pages it’s a shit storm. Spin it all you want. My recommendation for journo of the year award is Stu. The Grand reset. But I still want the SNP thrown out. Then their arrogance will leave them.
@Hatuey:
“When did the 70 year old virgin John Curtice become a political correspondent rather than just a number cruncher?”
All those years alone in his attic bedroom gave him lots of time for a correspondence course?
At 70 years of age my chances of seeing an independent Scotland are diminishing by the day,month,year and that is saddening, I am also saddened for the ones who have died without seeing their dream realised, those people at least have the excuse that the people were NOT ready
I don’t have that excuse, since at least 2015 the people have shown that they were willing to seriously consider it , all it would take is a little bit more convincing and belief, but that convincing and persuasion was not forthcoming from Sturgeon and the wider SNP .
INSTEAD of educating and illustrating to people the benefits of independence financially and socially they set out deliberately to sabotage and antagonise a section of the electorate that would be CRUCIAL for numbers in any independence vote = WOMEN
That is NOT the action of ANYONE who would be considering an action where the success of that action is critical on the outcome of votes gained
I stated that I am saddened , I am ,but I am more outraged and scunnered that Scotland has been BETRAYED and USED by a narcissistic psychopath that is more interested in pandering to sexual fetishists than she is to the welfare and health of Scotland’s citizens
@Steve Davison
Which is why it is so obviously a leak by the SNP – probably the same conduit used for the Daily Record leak.
There is really nothing for the Unionists gain by leaking this before publication. It is a desperate attempt by the SNP to either manage the news cycle or pressurise Wightman into reconsidering or both.
Pathetically transparent and rank amateur execution by folk who clearly cannot understand they are not as clever as they think.
A spokesman for the First Minister has accused the committee of resorting to “baseless assertion, supposition and smear” – The Herald.
Sounds very much like her treatment of Alex Salmond to me. Looks like the chickens are coming home to roost.
It’s almost like a carefully choreographed timetable that we accidentally stumbled upon a year early. A crisis we could see coming perhaps before we and the media were supposed to. Note an odd word in the weasel words above “manufacturing evidence”.
Of course the enquiry has more leaks than Wales so the chances are she knows what bits she’s going to be called out over and hence geting her digs in quick. Ohh, for a Jeremy Paxman like figure to cross swords with her. It’s like there’s an odd religious cult are running our covernment and see the only way to deal with opposition is to deny things and get lawyers. That will alienate any support she might have had as it seems she is more determined ot take the SNP into an election with the express purpose of losing. If you can see the numbers so can the SNP. At this rate Boris will give her a damehood.
The people most liekly to lose their seats will be people that her cronies haven’t shoved up the lists so they will be all right. Anybody know what happens if she gets elected as top of the list in Glasgow even if she loses to Labour which may be a distinct propostion? Four more years of taxpayer funded wages?
Whats the big deal about this info being released a few days early?
Was the SG intending to redact before publishing?
Did they have some glowing press releases all ready to roll on Tuesday?
Any know how these leaks will “likely frustrate, not assist, the women at the heart of this” as is being suggested by Fabiani?
@the dissident
Thanks makes sense I was reading the chairs comments and was getting frustrated thinking why give her another out when she is yet again on the ropes .I didn’t even think that it was done for her prob because I don’t think of this bunch having any guile based on the track record
Sturgeon also claiming that the committee is very partisan, and that they had already made their minds up, no mention though of the partisan MSP’s who came down on her side in the committee, even though she failed to recall information on fifty questions put to her during her appearance at the committee, and the deliberately withholding information or releasing some of it after her day answering questions to the committee.
It seems to me that this site does more to inform the people of Scotland than the whole of the Scottish media. Why are they so reticent to get stuck in to Sturgeon? What are they afraid of?
The Greens…
What price will they demand for supporting Mrs. Murrell on next Wednesdays vote of no confidence? What whacky legislation will we see introduced in the future?
Incredibly, the Greens are now in a position of undreamt of power and influence over the future of Scotland and make no mistake, whatever demands they make, they will be met, all to prevent Mrs. Murrell from having to resign.
Scotland is a fucking cesspool of corruption. There is no way ANY politician of any persuasion can be trusted to run an independent Scotland.
@Ruby
I don’t know who leaked it, don’t care either, but you could be right that it was done to avoid some shenanigans to remove incriminating sections.
Ok folks, it’s over, Jean Freeman has said that Nicola is sound. Time to move on.
STV = Sturgeon Tele Vision
The Tory’s must know the VONC against Sturgeon will be a repeat of that against Swinney. They have to show how tough they are, as expected of the opposition, but maybe they also want to re-enforce the role of the Green bum-monkeys as unthinking enablers. There may be some people who vote Green thinking they represent environmental interests; spliting them off could kill the Yes majority.
Well, Sarah Smith wasn’t looking smug on the evening news there. Not at all.
Craig Murray’s video is very good.
I find it difficult to follow who’s who when letters of the alphabet are used.
I like the way he referred to one of complainers as ‘The Stirling Castle lady’.
I’m presuming ‘The Stirling Castle Lady’ is the one who sent a letter via Rape Crisis yesterday.
Interesting that he is in touch with ‘Attempted Rape Lady’.
“Your betrayer lives in Bute House, and the barely-concealed joy and celebrations of the Unionists at her continued survival are your evidence.”
Who else wants her and her cabal’s continued survival?
TOMMY SHERIDAN
CRAIG MURRAY.
What would it mean if Nicola Sturgeon resigned?
Would it mean she would appear to step down as First Minister but would continue her work via John Swinney?
Every vote for the SNP is an endorsement of the corrupt lying criminal SNP leadership and its stooges standing in the constituencies and on the lists.
Vote tactically against the SNP in the constituencies.
Vote for the pro Indy party with the best chance on the list.
Above all unseat Sturgeon in her constituency.
Sarwar will get in on the list anyway. No harm in voting tactically for him in the constituency.
Any chance you could go out and get a news paper tomorrow and publish a photo of you holding it Stu as I’m afraid this site is not being written by you anymore?
At long last Vegetable Rights can become a reality in Scotland- vote Green
oh dear, I think the committee members got their bums spanked by mammy
link to archive.is
Nicola Sturgeon is a prime example of Toxic Feminimity.
This stramash has also put paid to any chance of Alex Salmond’s return to the political scene in a significant way
Any party that he might associate himself with will be tainted
The original approach to Independence was that after two or three years general elections would be held allowing the people to choose whichever parties were on offer. The SNP with their machinations have put the cart before the horse by introducing HCB and other nonsense
A new party must be formed to give the “Salmond” supporters a place to put their vote rather than protest voting Labour Tories or Lib Dems.It will be four more years for sure then 4 more after that and so on.
Ruby says,
“Is it Anas Sarwar you want to see as First Minister?”
If that is how you understand Ross Kilbride’s comments, he is right about calling you a “slow thinker”.
Are you in favour of Sturgeon retaining her Glasgow constuency seat?
What is your proposed solution to the Sturgeon problem?
What are the implications of not voting SNP?
Would supporters of independence be better off with a Tory or a Labour Gov. at Holyrood?
Anas Sarwar or Douglas Ross as First Minister?
What would we be endorsing if we vote for Douglas Ross?
What would we be endorsing if we vote for Anas Sarwar?
Of course I meant constituency.
Even if Sturgeon resigns, if her replacement is a,,,same old, same old, then I’ll go after her/him just the same.
Scotland needs cleansed of these bastards who have knocked the Indy Campaign back a decade.
Ruby, the question which you don’t want to answer is:
Would we be better off if Sturgeon lost her Glasgow constituency seat?
She is not on the top of the list, so would end up out of the Scottish parliament.
Kcor
“Slow thinker”
That was me being generous.
@
‘K Campbell says:
19 March, 2021 at 6:35 pm
oh dear, I think the committee members got their bums spanked by mammy
link to archive.is‘
Wow, double wow and holy fuck. It just keeps coming doesn’t it. Everyone is wrong except St Nicla.
Lord Pentland – wrong, Lady Dorian and the Jury – wrong, wrong, Alex Salmond – wrong, David Davis, Wings Over Scotland, half the SNP – wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong – and now the Parliamentary Inquiry that she set up, joeyed the evidence and witnesses to and gerrymandered the MSP’s selected to sit upon it – wrong.
No wonder she’s been looking haggart of late – must be terribly wearing to be the only one right all the time.
Kcor, if Sarwar beats Sturgeon she will get in on the list. This has been pointed out repeatedly, do you and Ross Kilbride not understand how the DeHondt system works?
Ruby, if Unionists take control of Holyrood they will begin to disembowel it. That is what you wil be endorsing if you vote for Sarwar or Ross.
Just caught up after work.
Had a quick look at Twitter. Think someone is trying to swamp the place with a lot “I Love Nicola” accounts.
The SNP need to be taught a severe lesson.
As John Cleese would have put it…
“They need a damn good thrashing”
Kcor, if you believe Sturgeon would not get in on the list because there is a BAME candidate on the list above her then you are even more naive than I thought.
Said BAME candidate would find themselves regrettably having to stand down for personal reasons.
Wise up.
Kcor says:
19 March, 2021 at 6:48 pm
Ruby says,
“Is it Anas Sarwar you want to see as First Minister?”
If that is how you understand Ross Kilbride’s comments, he is right about calling you a “slow thinker”.
Are you in favour of Sturgeon retaining her Glasgow constuency seat?
What is your proposed solution to the Sturgeon problem?
Reply
List seat/constituency seat Sturgeon will still be there.
The only way to get rid of Sturgeon as FM by voting is to ensure Anas Sarwar or Douglas Ross becomes FM.
Which would you choose?
My proposed solution would be to have Nicola Sturgeon either sectioned or jailed or maybe both.
@ GWC ( you know who you are)
I am pleased to confirm my presence (after soul-searing entreaties from many dear friends and admirers) this year at the festivities in Avignon. Naturally,I shall be residing pendant les évenements at the Palais des Papes
“The Chancer from Kent” has turned up to tell us to Vote SNP and AFI,,,or whatever the fuck it’s called.
Ross Kilbride says,
“Scotland needs cleansed of these bastards who have knocked the Indy Campaign back a decade.”
I totally agree with you.
I can’t see any reason why anyone complaining about Sturgeon could not agree with the idea of unseating her in her constituency.
As we have seen, she is above the law and is about to be whitewashed by the committees.
The only way to get rid off her is at the ballot box in her own constituency.
Why are posters like Ruby dead against this simple and smart idea? Are they showing their true colours?
The Rev. Stuart Campbell had foreseen the idea before anyone else:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 6:53 pm
Kcor
“Slow thinker”
That was me being generous.
Hey Stu look at Ross Kilbride he’s calling me names again
🙂 🙂 🙂
ian murray says:
19 March, 2021 at 6:46 pm
This stramash has also put paid to any chance of Alex Salmond’s return to the political scene in a significant way
Any party that he might associate himself with will be tainted
You sound like the Georgian Generals after the 45
Still furious with Sturgeon and the “waisted years”.
Rot in hell ya Bastard.
I don’t care what you Sturgeonistas say,,, I’m on Sturgeon’s case until she is gone.
Looks like sturgeon has won her battle to defeat and contain the independence movement.
We aree supposed to be a nation of lions not mice.
If I vote Green will my potatoes be able to self-ID as asparagus?
Kcor. 7.04
Brilliant post.
Nailed it,. Best post I’ve seen today.
It’s called,,, Simple logic.
Ruby, Craig Murray is not in touch with ‘attempted rape lady’ he is in contact with ‘sleepy cuddle lady’, the only complaint against him with merit.
@ScotsRenewables
If the past few months have shown us anything it is that the Scottish Parliament is institutionally unsound. The fact that it has taken a Tory MP in Westminster to bring this to the fore tells its own story. The lumpen Sturgeonistas are beyond help of course: Nicola could strangle litter of puppies live at her next Covid briefing and the SNP clapping seals would bark their approval.
In all honestly I have to say I’ve gotten to the point with the SNP I think I’d rather see them lose. They have shown themselves to be a clear and present danger to democratic government, to the separation of powers and to fundamental civil liberties.
It gives me no pleasure to say that as a former member, but since the current SNP haven’t got a snowball’s chance in hell of delivering indy anyway, I’m certainly not about to extend such a deeply repugnant party my tactical support just because the unionist opposition is execrable.
I honestly hope some of those around Sturgeon see jail time.
The independent Scotland most of us want to see deserves better than this.
We can’t build a better nation from such a corrupted foundation.
ScotsRenewables says,
“Kcor, if Sarwar beats Sturgeon she will get in on the list. This has been pointed out repeatedly, do you and Ross Kilbride not understand how the DeHondt system works?”
It has actually been pointed out repeatedly to you that she won’t get in on the list, but we all know your way of operating – keep on lying repeatedly in the hope that the more gullible will start thinking it is the truth.
This is the Rev. Stuart Campbell’s blog you are posting on right?
This is what the Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote very recently:
“Because of the BAME/disabled weighting, what we’ve arrived at is a situation where Nicola Sturgeon is not at the top of the Glasgow regional list.”
“But a scandal-weakened SNP leader, vulnerable to tactical voting and now operating without a safety net”
link to wingsoverscotland.com
After reading that, ScotsRenewableLies, will you tell us again that “she will get in on the list”?
.
Ian Murray,
@6.46 above.
You are kind of half right.
But anyone who writes off Alex Salmond KNOWING how many successful comebacks he has had is making a BIG mistake.
I agree with your basic premise. It will be difficult for Alex Salmond to come back in. I believe that such is the toxic legacy of the Humza Orwellian nightmare and Sturgeonite McWokeists destroying the SNP with internecine warfare that a NEW PRO-INDY party must be formed.
The big question is…
Would Alex Salmond return to lead the “90 minute patriots” to IndyRef2?
Would he return from his (now) happy retirement after all that he and Moira have been put through?
Would you?
Anyone, SNP, Lab, Lib, Tory who warched Alex Salmond’s statesmanlike appearance in front of Fabiani’s hit squad (and respect to the 5 non-Sturgeonite McWokeist members who told Fabiani to fuck off) will know what a LOSS Scotland has suffered trading in Alex Salmond for the dirty Dreghorn defacating detritus.
I don’t think the big man has yet made up his mind. The latest stratagem of blindsiding the poison dwarf FM by deploying David Davis gives the impression Alex is just getting warmed up.
Ian, I am a floating voter. I get pissed off at many SNP people who think THEY won 56 seats at Westminster and broke the Holyrood D’Hondt system to achieve a majority (under Alex).
It was floating voters who trusted Alex Salmond by LENDING HIM their votes that got the SNP into power.
Every SNP seat is a marginal.
I reckon that IF Alex returns it will be to lead a new party. That will hold a key 20 to 30 MSPs that will, as the oft used saying goes… “hold the feet of the SNP to the fire”. Alex will keep the new leader of the SNP honest. Whoever the new leader is, you can expect some good old decent politics that matter to 99.6% of Scotland to return.
I also expect some bravura speeches from Alex, spit-roasting whoever the heir to the Scottish Chernobyl Party is. Rename the SNP to SCP because it will take 1,000 years to decontaminate Sturgeons stinking lying legacy.
JimuckMac says:
19 March, 2021 at 7:16 pm
Ruby, Craig Murray is not in touch with ‘attempted rape lady’ he is in contact with ‘sleepy cuddle lady’, the only complaint against him with merit.
Reply
Cheers! I was wondering after I typed it if I had gotten it wrong. ‘Attempted Rape Lady’ is the one who wasn’t there. What was the charge ‘Sleepy Cuddle Lady’ brought against Alex Salmond?
Ruby says:
19 March, 2021 at 5:50 pm
Whats the big deal about this info being released a few days early?
If you have the choice of releasing bad news it’s best done on a Friday by Monday the heat is off !
My money is on the SNP leaking it !
BTW In regard investigations into the deaths of 2 young cancer patients at QE Uni Hospital also released today.
Ruby says,
“Reply
List seat/constituency seat Sturgeon will still be there.”
How will she still be there, Ruby? Please explain.
This article by the Rev. Stuart Campbell might help you:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
19 March, 2021 at 4:58 pm
Ross Kilbride: I’m in an exceptionally forgiving mood today so I’m going to give you one warning about personal abuse of other posters. This is it. There will be no second warning.
@Ruby says:
19 March, 2021 at 7:05 pm
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 6:53 pm
Kcor
“Slow thinker”
That was me being generous.
Hey Stu look at Ross Kilbride he’s calling me names again
? ? ?”
Certainly appears to be a breach of the “spirit” of the earlier warning … what is it about some people :\
“It’s like the old Soviet joke we used to tell each other back in the Cold War: there’ll be no war, but in the struggle for peace, not a stone will be left standing.”
? John le Carré, Our Kind of Traitor
The lady doth protest too much, methinks
She is definately delusional. From supreme confidence she would be totally cleared by both Fandabidozie’s committee she is now trashing it, decisions taken on party lines, had made up their minds before evidence was considered, what she forgets to tell the public was that the committee was rigged in her favour with Fandabibidozi sitting there with her casting vote should it be required. With the Hamilton report now due I’m worried even more where that £600,000 has disappeared to if you take my meaning, would not put anything out of bounds.
Ross Kilbride, don’t take the bait and mind your language, otherwise you will get banned.
Your point about unseating Sturgeon is a sound one and I too have made it myself many times since the Rev. Stuart Campbell first mentioned it.
Just stick to point.
The Unionists cannot afford to tell the truth about the conspiracy to put Alex Salmond in prison. They hope to damage Nicola Sturgeon just enough so that she is wounded but not brought down.
If they told the whole truth, as David Davis seems willing to do, Sturgeon & Co would be gone very quickly. If they unleashed all their forces of Unionism, mainly the MSM, then the voters would be presented with the ugly picture that we have to contemplate daily – an out-of-control government ruthless enough to conspire to put an innocent man in jail.
Despite the amoral press & uni bourgeoisie being sanguine about the downright dishonesty of the SG I don’t believe that it would play that way in the court of public opinion, especially if we had thundering editorials denouncing all the tortuous details of the unscrupulous plot to bring AS to trial.
But it suits the Unionists to nibble at Sturgeon’s position through concentrating on the breaches of the ministerial code while allowing Sturgeon and her acolytes to continually defend themselves by smearing AS and keeping alive the general impression, also inculcated by members of the unionist press, that AS had escaped justice.
With a fog of obfuscation from the SG and the Machiavellian support of the Crown Office, I am sure that Sturgeon and her collaborators feel safe enough to keep fighting on defiantly. Those who could blow away that fog and reveal the horrible truth choose not to do so. We can only have the hope that David Davis will, by using parliamentary privilege, to the intense discomfort of the Scottish and UK establishment, inform the public of the deep, dark facts.
Now would be the time for a Tory, of all people, to deliver ‘J’accuse’. It very much depends on whether his own side would allow it. However, I understand how the state of Scottish politics depresses Craig Murray so much. Me too.
Sturgeon aside for a moment, STV news and Reporting Scotland are now in unionist campaigning mode as the Scotland bad stories are aired more frequently.
Stu’s original article about Sarwar unseating Sturgeon was interesting. But how many of you honestly believe the BAME candidate would get the seat ahead of Nicola?
For a start you would have to assume some integrity…
“However, I understand how the state of Scottish politics depresses Craig Murray so much. Me too.”
I speak as someone with no political axe to grind at-all; completely non-political. But, if Holyrood is that bad that it disgusts that many people, including me it has to be said, then why don’t we just close Holyrood for a couple of years. See if things improve. I wouldn’t be at-all surprised if they did.
Education would improve and we would have fewer drug deaths and child poverty.
I listened to BBC News, Reporting Scotland and Channel 4 News tonight and I can only say that Sturgeon disgraces us.
I’d say Johnson and the unionists would like to see Sturgeon removed, but as long as she’s politically damaged, and if that damage leads to a minority government propped up by the Greens, which kills off the very slight chance of an indyref being held within the next five years, they’ll feel that they’ve done the job that needs doing.
Although Sturgeon has no real intentions of holding an indyref, Johnson will see a return of a minority SNP government as a sign that Scots don’t want independence, and he’ll push on with negating Holyrood’s powers.
So we can’t really make headway unless Sturgeon is removed and replaced with a proactive pro-indy leader, which looks very unlikely.
Scotsrenewables…
“Ruby, if Unionists take control of Holyrood they will begin to disembowel it. That is what you wil be endorsing if you vote for Sarwar or Ross.”
Oh FFS… HOW MANY TIMES???
WESTMINSTER IS ALREADY “DISEMBOWELING” HOLYROOD AND THE SNP GOVT. DOES NOTHING!!!
Sorry, but you’ve already been told this and still you give us the “but if they this…then they’ll that” bollocks.
They’re already f***ing doing it!!!
Now, are you genuinely mentally challenged, or are you simply being obtuse?
If I was to put some odds on Sturgeon being dethroned. I would say it’s 60/40 in her favour.
It was probably 70/30 last week. We just need that extra 11% to finish her. Things are moving closer. It will require someone with nothing to lose finally nailing her. Someone from within the party.
Who will it be?
Robert. Worse than that. They are doing it in plain sight of the SNP government, and their impotence is more legendary than Pele.
@Ruby 19 March, 2021 at 12:05 pm
“Does this mean all these Sturgeonistas and new SNP members are all Unionists?”
I have seen a screenshot of a tweet by Holyroodmandy stating many people who she knows resigned from the SNP weeks ago and got confirmations of resignation but yet last week all got emails from the SNP saying they has rejoined (but they had not) So it seems like a cunning plan by the other Murrell just to give previous members free memberships back to keep the numbers up. I’m sure many here can look for the original tweet themselves.
@ Scots Renewables at 7.01 and earlier
You are right that NS’s position on the list is not a stumbling block.
It isn’t necessarily the case, however, that the loss of a constituency would be compensated for by a list seat. Whether that happens depends not only on the SNP’s percentage on the list, but also on how the non-SNP votes are distributed between other parties.
That is why, in the north east in 2011, the SNP gained all the constituencies plus a list seat, but in Lothians in 2016, they lost 3 constituencies without any compensation.
The margins are small, so there might be a compensatory list seat, but it is not guaranteed.
robertknight
What will we be endorsing if we vote in a Unionist Party at Holyrood?
“Whats the big deal about this info being released a few days early?”
Perhaps as a damage limitation exercise in preparation for the strong possibility that more damning evidence might be about to be released from the HoL that may force them to put Sturgeon, the lord advocate, the crown agent, Evans or the spads and civil servants back in the spot light.
Given that MSPs may be given privileges like MPs for the sake to move this forward, perhaps the amoebas in the committee saw the wolf’s teeth and are rushing with their report to give the public the impression that Fabiani’s farce has now reached its “conclusions” and it is therefore closed for business no matter what evidence is made public from now on.
To administer the coup de grace will need bombproof and irrefutable evidence (e mails, whatsapps messages etc) The only people with that are in with the in crowd and will be dobbing themselves in to the babylon if they do that. NS is going to get away with this.
I think some people here aren’t quite getting what’s happening.
We all want Sturgeon to resign because she fitted up Salmond. But the way the media is playing it, and certainly the way the committee will also play is, is that she needs to resign because she tried to cover up for the “horrible sex pest”. This has always been their aim. Obviously they hoped he’d be imprisoned as Scotland’s Harvey Weinstein and they could get Sturgeon on covering up for 20 years for some hidieous sexual predator. They’ve been robbed of that by the verdict but it’s sill all about Sturgeon covering up for Salmond, not her plotting against him in the way that actually happened.
Salmond was the key target here, Sturgeon is the secondary one. Due to her joining them in the smears, she is now stuck with that, quite possibly deliberately if she doesn’t want independence and is happy to destroy the SNP and go along with the unionist spin. But either way, none of the media and opposition stuff is about clearing Salmond.
I want Sturgeon to resign for what she did to Alex. What I absolutely don’t want is her resigning because, in the media spin “She tried to cover up for Salmond”. That would only compound the injustice of what’s been done. We need to be very careful what we call for and why.
In a moment of clarity I caught a glimpse of the evil of letting the leader run away with the party.
If you focus all the intention on the brilliance of the leader then you successfully snare all the elected members. The success of their re-election campaigns are now tightly tied to the success of the leader. This neatly solves the problem of dealing with any dissent within the ranks. Anyone who puts their head above the parapet is going to get it shot off either by the leadership or by the membership.
Every SNP MSP’s fate is bound to the One Ring worn by Nicola Sturgeon.
Aye JGedd, those Unionists have been busy hsven’t they? Responsible for so much it’s a wonder they’ve time for this Scottish drama – Jack the Ripper, The Tomintoul Panther, Dark Matter, The Voynich Maususcript, The missing Malaysian Airliner, Crop Circles, Wormholes, Maureen Watt (the last two are inter-changeable), the list goes on and on and on.
@Mia – Every now and again I find myself agreeing with you. Not very often mind-you, is it. But, I agree with your observation. The Committee know that wolves of the British State are staring at them and pacing up and down waiting.
Daisy Walker says,
19 March, 2021 at 4:32 pm
“Very good vlog by Craig Murray. If your looking in Craig, take care of yourself and thanks for all your doing.
I have 2 hopes now. That this May sees the SNP suffer a rout – and I have voted for them all my life, so that is a big turn around for me.”
For your information, Craig Murray, along with Tommy Sheridan, advocates constituency votes for the SNP.
Your hope of the SNP suffering a rout is directly opposed to Craig Murray’s hope of the SNP performing strongly and winning the constituency seats.
IMHO, the logic of Craig Murray and Tommy Sheridan is totally wrong on two counts:
A strong performance by the SNP will be portrayed as a solid endorsement of Sturgeon and her fellow corrupt lying criminals.
The stronger the SNP performance, the lesser the influence of the pro Indy list MSPs. It is in the interests of Craig Murray and Tommy Sheridan that the SNP are routed so that they can have much more influence on a weakened SNP.
“I want Sturgeon to resign for what she did to Alex”
I want her to resign for breaching the ministerial code, for wasting millions of taxpayers’ money in a political vendetta and for failing miserably to deliver our democratic mandate and protect us from brexit.
For what they did to Mr Salmond I want her and her cronies prosecuted and sent to jail.
Ruby @ 7:56 pm
“What will we be endorsing if we vote in a Unionist Party at Holyrood?”
Colonialism.
Ruby at 7.22 –
Sleepy Cuddle lady was the subject of 2 charges, sexual assault with intent to rape (the sleepy cuddle) and sexual assualt by a kiss on the mouth.
Salmond lodged “special defence of consent” to both charges.
One verdict was not guilty and the other was the not proven verdict, I’m not certain which was which.
SNP MSP’s committee members whining that the non SNP MSP’s prejudged Sturgeon without any evidence. it sounds to me like sour grapes from the SNP MSP’s.
link to twitter.com
I don’t recall Fabiani and Co cry out for justice when one of the women complainers was found not even to have been in the same building when Alex Salmond was meant to have sexually assaulted her, yet the liar faces no consequences for her vile actions, so corrupt is the COPFS, that we’ll never be able to name this woman, but she can throw snide and derogatory comments into the public, via RCS, which the media will gladly report.
A slight digression:
Is this John McTernan being right for the first time ever?
link to twitter.com
Also unusual perspicacity from Cat Boyd:
link to twitter.com
Amidst all the apparent doom and gloom, the good news is if you want independence to happen in May’s ‘independence’ election then simply vote AFI on the list:
“AFI shall also campaign for a simple majority of the popular vote for pro-indy parties across both the constituencies and the regional lists, at the “Independence” election, and for such a majority to be understood to be a mandate for independence itself.
link to afi.scot
The AFI fundraiser is now rising as quickly as St. Nicola’s star is falling:
link to afi.scot
Having faith that at some point in the future, this entire shit storm will come to light, can some techy person assure me that the trail of e mails and whatsapp stuff can be retrieved or can that stuff be permanently deleted?
ScotsRenewables says,
“Stu’s original article about Sarwar unseating Sturgeon was interesting. But how many of you honestly believe the BAME candidate would get the seat ahead of Nicola?”
So you had actually read the Rev. Stuart Campbell’s original article?
Sturgeon has endorsed the BAME/Disabled lists against legal advice.
A BAME candidate is at the top of the SNP list in Glasgow, and the SNP is unlikely to get more than one list seat in Glasgow.
Sturgeon will be left in a humiliating position if Sarwar unseats her in her constituency and then she cheats her way into parliament by forcing a BAME SNP list MSP to resign in her favour.
We all know you are a Sturgeonist and I won’t waste any effort in trying to convince you.
But for anyone genuinely interested in getting rid of Sturgeon, it is a simple and smart idea to unseat her in her constituency by voting tactically in favour of Sarwar.
Before Ruby and others try to claim otherwise, voting for Sarwar against Sturgeon will not make any difference to the number of unionist or SNP MSPs elected.
Instead of Sarwar getting in on the list, he will get in in the constituency.
Instead of Sturgeon getting in in the constituency, an SNP BAME candidate will get in on the list.
No harm done. No, Ruby, neither I nor Ross Kilbride are campaigning for Sarwar to be First Minister.
Sturgeon either gone or left humiliatingly cheating her way in by forcing an SNP BAME MSP to resign.
Can anyone genuinely interested in getting Sturgeon out be against such a simple and smart idea, which the Rev. Stuart Campbell himself had first brought to our attention?
link to wingsoverscotland.com
JGedd:
Yes the unionists on the committee are too concerned with getting a “twofer” to go after Sturgeon properly.
I had hopes last year Alex would return to politics. But tbh, having seen what’s happening and the lengths the new SNP state are going to, I no longer want him to as I would honestly fear for his safety. He deserves a decent retirement and I think it’s up to others now to deal with the utter shitshow Scotland has become. If he can help and guide from the sidelines, great. If he feels he can achieve something more from returning I’ll back him 100% and would love that. But I would totally understand if he wanted nothing more to do with Scottish politics too now.
“Every SNP MSP’s fate is bound to the One Ring worn by Nicola Sturgeon”…
And boy do they love to kiss her ring at every opportunity!
Kcor says: Ruby, neither I nor Ross Kilbride are campaigning for Sarwar to be First Minister.
Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 2:17 pm
Vote Scottish Labour in the Glasgow Southside Constituency.
Kick the Bastard Sturgeon out of Scottish Politics for good.
Rinse and Repeat throughout Scotland.
Vote for the most credible candidate who will UNSEAT your SNP candidate.
Cleanse the Scottish Parliament on the 6th May.
Reply
Who is it then that you are campaigning to be First Minister?
@Mia says:
19 March, 2021 at 8:05 pm
“I want Sturgeon to resign for what she did to Alex”
I want her to resign for breaching the ministerial code, for wasting millions of taxpayers’ money in a political vendetta and for failing miserably to deliver our democratic mandate and protect us from brexit.
For what they did to Mr Salmond I want her and her cronies prosecuted and sent to jail.
Concur completely and the sooner the better.
@mia Fair enough. I want a fair few folk in jail for what they did to Alex tooZ
-Andy Ellis-
I completely agree with you. It is deeply disheartening but we are where we are.
Ruby says:
19 March, 2021 at 8:41 pm
Reply
Who is it then that you are campaigning to be First Minister?
Best not ask these guys difficult questions, Ruby . . .
Kcor says:
19 March, 2021 at 8:29 pm
Sturgeon will be left in a humiliating position if Sarwar unseats her in her constituency and then she cheats her way into parliament by forcing a BAME SNP list MSP to resign in her favour.
Aye, right. Like that is really going to bother her. The BAME candidate will have sudden compelling family reasons.
Wise up.
to RobertKnight @ 11:34
Such a good post
Alf Baird believes 5000pounds went into the AFI Fundraiser in the las few hours by a total of 35 people!
It sat at 750 quid from 21 people for the first 48 hours. Therefore 14 people put 4250 pounds into the fundraiser in the last few hours.
Funny how no access was not achievable all afternoon..just a spinning wheel.
You must think our heads button up the back! Can Alf explain the explosion in donations by 14 people.
Facts are painful.
ScotsRenewables says:
19 March, 2021 at 8:48 pm
Ruby says:
19 March, 2021 at 8:41 pm
Reply
Who is it then that you are campaigning for to be First Minister?
Best not ask these guys difficult questions, Ruby . . .
Reply
C’mon ScotsRenewables that is an easy question!
If you are looking to kick all the SNP candidates out of Holyrood you are only really left with two credible choices.
It’s Sarwar or Ross.
PS Ross Kilbride has gone very quiet! 🙂
Stugeon talking about Alex Salmond’s “cronies”.
Can someone remind her that it her long time crony Liz Lloyd who was interfering with the illegal investigation of Alex Salmond, and other cronies of Sturgeon thought that was “v bad”.
The levels of corruption within the Scottish government and the COPFS must be bad when Craig Murray says he’s depressed about it, this a man whose seen the worst of corruption in places such as Uzbekistan, where some unjustly convicted prisoners are boiled alive.
What will she say if Hamilton concludes that she broke the ministerial code?
We can guess… let the people decide in the election if I should step down or not.
Why do we bother with these inquiries?
Between now and voting day, the best we can hope to do is draw attention to their corruption and lies. I think it’s realistic to hope that around 30% of those who’d normally vote SNP will abstain or vote against them.
I have a feeling David Davis is going to be very helpful. He has no reason to fear these lowlife bastards.
Menstruator says:
19 March, 2021 at 8:11 pm
Ruby at 7.22 –
Sleepy Cuddle lady was the subject of 2 charges, sexual assault with intent to rape (the sleepy cuddle) and sexual assualt by a kiss on the mouth.
Salmond lodged “special defence of consent” to both charges.
One verdict was not guilty and the other was the not proven verdict, I’m not certain which was which.
Reply
Cheers! Thanks for info. 🙂 & flowers
Ruby says,
“Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 2:17 pm
Vote Scottish Labour in the Glasgow Southside Constituency.
Kick the Bastard Sturgeon out of Scottish Politics for good.”
“Who is it then that you are campaigning to be First Minister?”
Ruby, will Sarwar unseating Sturgeon in her constituency make him First Minister?
Do you want Sturgeon to remain an MSP?
Just answer those simple questions.
“The Committee know that wolves of the British State are staring at them and pacing up and down waiting”
Well, that is a great pity. It seems we didn’t agree after all Capitan because I was referring to the Wolves in the COPS and Sturgeon’s gov, actually. They are showing their menacing teeth to stop the committee having the audacity of considering the evidence released by Davis, new evidence that might be in the pipeline to emerge or taking upon the suggestion of Mr Davis to refer the matter directly to the police.
I think the British state, now that they have ensured May election will not be a plebiscite and the fraud will remain as leader of an eviscerated SNP until Robertson takes over, they are no hurry. Because if the incriminating evidence does not pop before the report and it does it afterwards, it will be even more devastating for the SNP.
From the point of view of the British state, the committee can take as long as it wishes.
“More importantly, it suggests that the pro-Yes vote in the election will fall below the critical 50% required to provide a “moral” imperative for a new referendum. If a majority of Scots vote for Unionist parties then regardless of how seats may be allocated Boris Johnson will feel absolutely secure in refusing permission.”
Exactly; I have been saying that since 2015.
Its also the reason that the SNP High Command is not pushing for indyref2, they know they can’t win.
ScotsRenewables says,
“Kcor says:
19 March, 2021 at 8:29 pm
Sturgeon will be left in a humiliating position if Sarwar unseats her in her constituency and then she cheats her way into parliament by forcing a BAME SNP list MSP to resign in her favour.
Aye, right. Like that is really going to bother her. The BAME candidate will have sudden compelling family reasons.
Wise up.”
All non-Sturgeonists here wisened up a long time ago.
What is the harm in unseating her in her constituency?
Answer that simple question.
As I have already pointed out it will not affect the number of SNP or Labour MSPs.
Kcor,
You have been told over and over again, Sturgeon will get in on the list if she loses her seat.
I understand everyone wants to do something, but futile gestures that involve voting for Unionist liars should surely be kept as a last resort.
Hatuey says,
“What will she say if Hamilton concludes that she broke the ministerial code?
We can guess… let the people decide in the election if I should step down or not.
Why do we bother with these inquiries?”
All that the likes of James Hamilton care about is their reputation with the Establishment.
They are in the pockets of the Establishment.
He has deliberately delayed his report to the eve of the election so anything he says can be easily swept aside.
Our only hopes are now for David Davis to make everything public.
And for Sturgeon to be defeated in her constituency by Sarwar.
Cath @7.58pm
You are right. Much of the media commentary is about insinuating that Sturgeon being evasive about dates of meetings is covering for her support for Salmond. I haven’t seen any attempt to explain the real reason behind her evasiveness. I’m not surprised that ordinary voters are puzzled about the fuss. That’s exactly the way the MSM wish them to remain, uninformed about the truth.
The Unionists are in no hurry to be rid of Sturgeon because she is a very useful tool, constantly smearing and traducing Salmond’s reputation and implying his guilt on every occasion. That is also why they often refer to this being about a personal clash by two former political allies whereas it’s about far more than that.
This is about abuse of power and corruption at the highest level in government and is about as serious as it can get in a democracy. The Unionists however, will be happy to help Sturgeon conceal what is at the dark heart of this by permitting her to keep repeating her attacks on Salmond.
@ TheSNPLeftMe says: 19 March, 2021 at 8:55 pm
“Alf Baird believes 5000 pounds went into the AFI Fundraiser in the las few hours by a total of 35 people!
It sat at 750 quid from 21 people for the first 48 hours. Therefore 14 people put 4250 pounds into the fundraiser in the last few hours.
Funny how no access was not achievable all afternoon..just a spinning wheel.
You must think our heads button up the back! Can Alf explain the explosion in donations by 14 people.
Facts are painful.”
Another day in the AFI vs ISP bitchfest, eh?
Anyone familiar with online donations bots knows they are more tempremental than a Rangers player seeing his team getting gubbed in Europe and a ref not giving them “their” penalties.
How many of us have been caught out for example by “Just Giving” acting as if it hasn’t donated that £10, so you do it again, and again, turning off your internet security software, refreshing your browser – and all of a sudden it updates – you’ve donated £70, the recipient is saying “OMG thanks U R So Generous!!!!” and you have shoved another £70 in the swear box next to you.
Also, like it or lump it, but the Toytown revolutionaries – like the far-right – do seem to attract eccentrics with more money than sense who will bankroll them at election times, in the case of the left usually disgrunted old Labour/Trade Union retirees who feel the party has gone “soft” and want someone to give it a bloody nose.
Tommy in particular has an old “fan” base that still donates to whatever “cunning plan” he’s up to next.
Ask the Communist Party of Britain where they got the cash for their beautiful four page A4 booklets they were handing out at Glasgow Central a few years ago.
Andy Ellis @ 7:17 pm
Nicola could strangle litter of puppies live at her next Covid briefing and the SNP clapping seals would bark their approval.
***
There were allegations that the puppies had been humping some people’s legs to be fair…
ScotsRenewables says,
“Kcor,
You have been told over and over again, Sturgeon will get in on the list if she loses her seat.”
You have started repeating you lie again, so soon?
The Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote very recently:
“Because of the BAME/disabled weighting, what we’ve arrived at is a situation where Nicola Sturgeon is not at the top of the Glasgow regional list.”
“But a scandal-weakened SNP leader, vulnerable to tactical voting and now operating without a safety net”
link to wingsoverscotland.com
But why are you scared to death of answering a simple question:
Even if as you believe she gets in on the list, what is the harm in her being defeated and humiliated in her constituency?
It will not the change the number of SNP or Labour MSPs.
ScotsRenewables says,
“Kcor,
You have been told over and over again, Sturgeon will get in on the list if she loses her seat.”
You have started repeating your lie again so soon, ScotsRenewableLies?
It was pointed out to you barely an hour ago that The Rev. Stuart Campbell wrote very recently:
“Because of the BAME/disabled weighting, what we’ve arrived at is a situation where Nicola Sturgeon is not at the top of the Glasgow regional list.”
“But a scandal-weakened SNP leader, vulnerable to tactical voting and now operating without a safety net”
link to wingsoverscotland.com
But why are you scared to death of answering a simple question:
Even if as you believe she gets in on the list, what is the harm in her being defeated and humiliated in her constituency?
It will not the change the number of SNP or Labour MSPs.
Kcor says:
19 March, 2021 at 9:04 pm
Ruby says,
“Ross Kilbride says:
19 March, 2021 at 2:17 pm
Vote Scottish Labour in the Glasgow Southside Constituency.
Kick the Bastard Sturgeon out of Scottish Politics for good.”
“Who is it then that you are campaigning to be First Minister?”
Ruby, will Sarwar unseating Sturgeon in her constituency make him First Minister?
Do you want Sturgeon to remain an MSP?
Just answer those simple questions.
Reply
If you unseat every SNP candidate as suggested by your mate Ross Kilbride then it will either by Sarwar or Ross. Dah!
In future if you want me to do something don’t forget the magic word.
If you don’t I’ll report you to Stu!
I’m in an exceptionally forgiving mood today so I’m going to give you one warning. There will be no second warning. 🙂
Mind your manners and don’t forget to say please (pretty please would be even better)
I also noticed the sudden jump in the AFI fundraiser total after a site downtime today. It has had quite a dramatic increase in funds yet the site is still only funded by a handful of people.
I don’t like those types of games! I’m not impressed.
You know, putting aside everything else, never in my life have I heard such negative comments about Rape Crisis Scotland being made. And they’re warranted. Think about that for a moment, away from the inquiry. An organisation meant to help women in dire need of assistance after a deeply traumatic experience in their life…has been puppeted by a vindictive, manhating cabal, led by a bully, and RCS’s reputation has suffered because of it.
There was a story in the Guardian a week or two ago about numbers of women going to RCS for help dropping because of this sick debacle. Why should innocent, traumatised women suffer because of a one-issue manhating hobbyhorse rider? Seriously. This is genuinely one of the most repugnant things I have ever heard of in my life, and that is without hyperbole. Especially as it comes because of somebody who would ostensibly call herself a ‘feminist.’
I think what, in essence, it does prove, is that, in a one-on-one, interpersonal way, Ms. Sturgeon is no good with neither men OR women, and ends up causing both sexes no end of trouble because of her weird personality. Imagine being a woman knowing you were causing other women, already in pain, further pain on top of that with your actions..AND KEEPING ON GOING. That is weirdly sadistic, utterly disgusting, and totally uncaring of the needs of other women who need responsible leadership from you, help in putting their tragedies forward, a shoulder to cry on, an ear to be lent so they can tell their horrible story.
Instead you hijack the organisation you fund to help them, simply because you can, and feel entitled to, and use it as a personal mouthpiece to attack a man from behind a supposedly impenetrable shield of anonymity. I have genuinely never heard of anything like this before in my life. If this mentally and emotionally troubled woman could see the damage she has caused, and is causing other women far worse off than she is, she would step down immediately. Because the way she has twisted being a woman and is using it for her own sick pathological needs and proclamations…is pretty much unprecedented in government, as far as I am concerned, or aware. And it has to be examined so it can be neutralised in the future, for the sake of the mental and emotional and physical health of traumatised women further down the line. Shaking my head here. Saddened and sickened beyond belief.
As usual.
An even simpler question for you, ScotsRenewables:
Would you like Sturgeon to be re-elected as an MSP, either in the constituency or on the list?
@ Captain Yossarian says:
19 March, 2021 at 7:46 pm
“However, I understand how the state of Scottish politics depresses Craig Murray so much. Me too.”
I speak as someone with no political axe to grind at-all; completely non-political. But, if Holyrood is that bad that it disgusts that many people, including me it has to be said, then why don’t we just close Holyrood for a couple of years. See if things improve. I wouldn’t be at-all surprised if they did.
Education would improve and we would have fewer drug deaths and child poverty.
I listened to BBC News, Reporting Scotland and Channel 4 News tonight and I can only say that Sturgeon disgraces us.’
If Holyrood closes, we lose our voice and any possible expression of Scottish collective sovereignty – which is why the bastards made it so very hard to obtain a Scottish parliament in the first place.
If Holyrood closes – all power – would return to Westminster and the English would run amok once again – with no chance of accountability.
I’m not sure why anyone would come onto a site dedicated to obtaining Scottish Independence and advocate taking 6 steps backwards by closing Holyrood. Unless of course they see things from an English Nationalist – sorry British – point of view – and are really just here to gaslight.
@ Kroc
Re Craig Murray and Tommy Sherridan advocating SNP for the constituency vote – I’m not so sure that remains Craig’s current view, given his recent Vlog. He’s obviously deeply troubled by the corruption at the top of the SNP (as are most of us).
When the above policy was first floated, it made sense, as a means of establishing a new Indy party – without people feeling they were being unloyal to the SNP.
I would suggest, that depending on the SNP candidate, there will be many a constituency where that remains the case.
For me, in Sweinney’s constituency – I’m voting tactically to get the bastard out. And when we do get some decent elected reps I’m going to campaign to get Police enquiry and get the corrupt bastards jailed.
One thing to consider – when Scottish politicians become corrupted down in Westminster – we never find out about it, unless its in England’s Establishment’s interest.
When they misbehave in Scotland – we’re a village and there are no secrets that last long.
Folk are quite rightly concerned that this atrocious corruption is damaging the cause for Indy.
May’s election is a powerful time – because the yes movement can – and must – clean out the stables and establish the new parties.
We can NEVER do that with Westminster – think how powerful a message it will be.
The aim must be GE – Plebiscite Indy Election and all shoulders to the wheel for that.
For those still loyal to Sturgeon, who argue ‘real politic’ or whatever the phrase is. Time for you to step up to the plate – whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not – Sturgeon IS the story, and will continue to be the story until she goes.
Brexit Brexshit Disaster – gone from the front page – instead Sturgeon.
Boris !!! Gone from the front page – instead Sturgeon.
We are losing our fishing industry – England has given access to the inshore fishing to Europe – that means the Spanish will hoover up the seabed – and create a desert. Gone forever.
2/3rd of our farmers relied on EU grants to make an income of £36,000 a year. Farming exports are now down by over 50% thanks to Brexit. Going, going, gone.
Real Politics – do you want the next 4 years to be about ‘Nicla did, or Nicla didn’t, ‘we need to fix the SNP from within’.
Or do you want to campaign for Indy. If its the latter – she has to go. She has to go now – and you have got to vote her out.
If you don’t believe me, I give you this – LOOK AT THE POLLS. Ha, ha.
@ steve ellwood at 1:02 pm
Are you actually sure?
I have at least a couple of minutes that state the drop in membership, but they are still counting the lapsed members within the total as members .
That is some way to keep records!!!! also consider the branch secretary produced the minutes, and 2 members signed off on the minutes at the next meeting.
And I’m leaving alone the ongoing money totals,as to trace that I need the full set of minutes
Prior to the shutdown, I had some of the minutes of a couple of branches and the attendances figures were down by about 30%
I don’t receive minutes now, as sources have left
The betrayer lives in bute house.
How very true
Eh were the puppy allegations reported ?
These disgusting canine actions have to be stopped and the police really have to make sure they are taken seriously , a committee has to be set up to find out if any of them now identify as cats in order to escape prosecution ,
As for the leg fettish well that’s just going to far .
FAO Kcor & Ross Kilbride
I do not live in the Southside Constituency. I don’t even live in Glasgow.
Just sayin’ incase you were looking for me to vote for your boy Ananas.
Ruby says,
“Ruby, will Sarwar unseating Sturgeon in her constituency make him First Minister?
Do you want Sturgeon to remain an MSP?
Just answer those simple questions.”
Reply
If you unseat every SNP candidate as suggested by your mate Ross Kilbride then it will either by Sarwar or Ross. Dah!
So you are bringing Ross in now, whereas previously you were claiming this:
“Reply
Is it Anas Sarwar you want to see as First Minister?”
Unseating constituency SNP MSPs would still leave them with list seats wouldn’t it?
What about pro Indy list MSPs holding the balance of power?
But you still haven’t answered a very simple question:
Do you want Sturgeon to remain an MSP?
It’s almost heart breaking seeing these I ‘l stand with Nicola’ wanks spouting their vile
Some well lent faces li ing up to give selfie support.
Do they not know the truth??
That bitch ain’t interested in independence!
‘Nicola’ the brand……. designed and reinforced in GCHQ !!
Ruby says,
“FAO Kcor & Ross Kilbride
I do not live in the Southside Constituency. I don’t even live in Glasgow.
Just sayin’ incase you were looking for me to vote for your boy Ananas.”
I don’t care who you are voting for, but why are you scared to death of answering a simple question?
Do you, posting as ‘Ruby’, want Sturgeon to be re-elected an MSP, either in the constituency or on the list?
Re Nicla’s spokesperson saying the Inquiry result is due to bias and partisan prejudging.
They did not seem to have any concerns about ‘apparant bias’ in procedures when it was them fitting up Alex Salmond – and a High Court Judge labeling them and their official actions as ‘unlawful and tainted by apparant bias’.
The brass necked, hypocrisy of them is simply breathtaking.
Sturgeon, Sarwar, Ross, that weird Green Party guy who looks like he keeps hard drives under a loose floorboard, Willie Rennie.
They’re all marginally different flavours of jobby.
I’m not that interested in which party wins the election, I’m interested in what they’re actually going to do with their comfortably taxpayer remuneration position.
I don’t recognise the SNP anymore. They’ve gone mental. Never in my sweatiest, Buckfast-soaked nightmares did I ever foresee the day when the organisation I used to defend as “Scotland’s Party” – back in the 90’s when you ran the non-trivial risk of a kicking chapping doors for the SNP – would take away the right of Scottish people to say whatever they like in their own homes.
That alone would be enough to put me off them, but of course it’s much worse than that.
Remember jubilees? Those Kwenchy Kup things, cheap plastic containers with a disgusting maroon juice in them. Sometimes they froze them and sold them as “jubilees”.
We’ve got a choice of different jubilees at the election, and they all taste of frozen poo – at least the ones with a chance of winning do. I don’t know anything about AFI or whatever but I’ll happily vote for them if they’re on the ballot. Failing that, whoever’s most likely to beat the SNP candidate. Not because I expect things to magically get better in the short term, but because this SNP Government deserves to lose.
If we decide to reward a government that’s stripping away our rights, pathologically lying, maliciously prosecuting people, and laughing about it – Hell mend us.
Long term, we really need better people in politics. Scotland is not a fiefdom, or a shopping centre, or an international job fayre, or an administrative region of the EU/UK, or a Krankies key party, or a petri dish for weird and disgusting social experiments. It’s our home, the only one we have. We need representatives who cherish Scotland and her people as jealousy as we do our own families.
I don’t get the sense that any of the fucklechucks in the current Scottish Parliament gives a damn about Scots, or even particularly likes us. We’re not allowed to peeble them wi stanes any more, so voting at least some of the bastards out is the only option.
@ Geoff Anderson at 9.23: AFI’s previous donation site contents were transferred to the new one today. I made a donation on the old site and another on the new site and have received acknowledgements.
I hope you will now realise that AFI have not been “playing games” with their fundraiser.
Is it just me or is Nicola portraying herself in the media as more ‘boyish’. as before?
‘Scotland is not a fiefdom, or a shopping centre, or an international job fayre, or an administrative region of the EU/UK, or a Krankies key party, or a petri dish for weird and disgusting social experiments. It’s our home, the only one we have. We need representatives who cherish Scotland and her people as jealousy as we do our own families.’
This should be pinned to the internet all weekend. Magnificent comment.
Daisy Walker says,
” @ Kroc
Re Craig Murray and Tommy Sherridan advocating SNP for the constituency vote – I’m not so sure that remains Craig’s current view, given his recent Vlog. He’s obviously deeply troubled by the corruption at the top of the SNP (as are most of us).”
Wasn’t he deeply troubled by the SNP corruption at the top when he advocated both votes SNP barely a couple of weeks ago?
The SNP corruption that tried to jail him, and for which he is still waiting for a verdict after two months?
If Craig Murray and Tommy Sheridan want to retain any credibility, they should very clearly stop advocating constituency votes for the SNP.
Why don’t they campaign for the list votes and let the voters decide who to vote for in the constituencies?
If people think independence can happen, just because Sturgeon goes, they are utterly deluded.
The SNP are now rotten to the core, owned and dominated by the Murrells. The Party is stuffed with pals who look the other way, and haven’t got the spine to stand up.
The wheels will come off the bus soon enough, and the recriminations will be huge as they all turn on each other.
This is a total mess, with a long way to run. It’s probably going to take years to sort out.
The time to stop the Murrells was long ago. The damage is now down.
I’m 52 now, and not in great health. I’m starting to see a scenario where I’ll be gone from this earth before we see an independent Scotland.
This should never have happened. Too many enabled it, too many covered it up and far too many kept making excuses and cheerleading something they knew was fundamentally wrong or even corrupt.
What do ordinary voters like me do now? I can’t even see how this can be put right.
Ruby @ 7:56
“What will we be endorsing if we vote in a Unionist Party at Holyrood?”
I’m asking myself both that and a similar question, but for the similar question I’m substituting “the SNP” for “a Unionist Party”.
In my deliberations I’ve discounted any IndyRef2 before 2026, I have zero faith in its being delivered, and hopefully we’ll have a plebecite rather than rigged referendum subject to any say-so from Westminster.
However, what I do with my Constituency vote I’m hanging fire upon to see how the Sturgeon Enquiry pans out.
I’ll either be voting for a Sturgeon-free SNP, drawing a single line through the boxes and writing “NONE” on the ballot, or I may be persuaded by a resurgent Sturgeon and her Woke acolytes to lend my vote to whoever is best placed to beat her candidate.
My List vote will go to the ISP which, provided over 50% of the List vote goes to pro-Indy parties, will help shoot any Yoon fox where cries of no appetite for Indy is concerned.
I can guarantee you this… my Constituency vote will NOT be going to Sturgeon’s SNP.
Red says,
“I’m not that interested in which party wins the election, I’m interested in what they’re actually going to do with their comfortably taxpayer remuneration position.
I don’t recognise the SNP anymore. They’ve gone mental. Never in my sweatiest, Buckfast-soaked nightmares did I ever foresee the day when the organisation I used to defend as “Scotland’s Party” – back in the 90’s when you ran the non-trivial risk of a kicking chapping doors for the SNP – would take away the right of Scottish people to say whatever they like in their own homes.”
Taking the carrot bait of “independence referendum when it is safe” and re-electing corrupt lying criminals is what only the most gullible would do.
Decent folks would want to get rid of them at the earliest opportunity.
Wings Over Scotland has exposed Sturgeon’s crimes beyond any reasonable doubt.
And yet there are posters who spend hours commenting here who cannot even accept the simple and smart idea of voting tactically to unseat the Criminal in Chief in her own constituency.
Makes you wonder what these posters are doing here if they want Sturgeon to remain as an MSP.
They’ll be an enquiry into the enquiry to see if there should be another enquiry.
What do we think about that now folks?
Kcor says:
Do you want Sturgeon to remain an MSP?
Reply
If the choice is between having a Unionist party in power at Holyrood and Sturgeon as an MSP.
I would go with Sturgeon as an MSP.
I shall repeat I do not live in Glasgow so I won’t have to make the decision vis a vis Sturgeon.
If anyone has cared to notice, Ruby and ScotsRenewables are scared to death of answering a very simple question, despite posting long essays:
Do you want Sturgeon to be re-elected an MSP, either in the constituency or on the list?
I wonder who will become the first self-certified transmasculine leader of a country?
I’m putting the current AFI fundraiser on record tonight at 10:07pm
10.35% of 50,000 Pounds raised by 35 donors. Given that the last 14 donors gave nearly 300Pounds each I think it should be on record. Will the donor number now jump or just the money?
Ruby says,
“Kcor says:
Do you want Sturgeon to remain an MSP?”
Reply
“If the choice is between having a Unionist party in power at Holyrood and Sturgeon as an MSP.
I would go with Sturgeon as an MSP.”
Posters can notice the dishonesty in that response.
Unseating Sturgeon in Glasgow has no effect on the number of SNP and Unionist MSPs in the Scottish parliament:
Instead of Sarwar getting in on the list, he will get in in the constituency.
Instead of Sturgeon getting in in the constituency, an SNP BAME candidate will get in on the list.
No harm done, except to Sturgeon.
Whatever their other differences, the vast majority of posters here want Sturgeon gone.
Conclusion: Ruby is a diehard Sturgeonist.
Mackay must be glad to get a heat, he’s been kept on ice, for this time of St Nicky’s need.
Another dodgy bastard gone, so not at all bad.
Kcor, I don’t have high hopes of Hamilton. I actually don’t see the point of his investigation. We all know she broke the ministerial code several times.
Salmond, for some reason, seemed to suggest Hamilton would give an honest account, though.
I’m beginning to think that the SNP Cultists live in a different universe. Perhaps we are seeing the beginnings of a new quasi-religious movement.
How the hell can a successful party get to this shambles in less than seven years?
Andrew Neil asked David Davis if he would consider releasing further information under PP, Guido Fawkes and the Spectator are digging in.
If unionists took over Holyrood, it would have to be the most unstable coalition imaginable between Ross, Sarwar and the diddy parties, having to pilot a way through a recession like no other, when people leave their homes to find their high streets devastated, their local gone bust, and that they no longer have permission to travel without state sanctions, permissions, and quite possibly currency controls.
This could be a very good election to lose.
Mr Bonobo, excellent point.
@ScotsRenewables says:
19 March, 2021 at 9:12 pm
Kcor,
You have been told over and over again, Sturgeon will get in on the list if she loses her seat.
I understand everyone wants to do something, but futile gestures that involve voting for Unionist liars s
Mmm what is the difference between a unionist liar or an snp one?
No one should delude themselves – Nicola Sturgeon is NOT going to resign, or go voluntarily, no matter what happens. Whenever anything turns against her, it will always be someone else’s fault. Never hers. Never.
That’s how she is. She is never ever wrong. And if you don’t agree with her on anything at all, there must be something wrong with you. Her GRA and Woke Reforms were OK with her, therefore they have to be OK with all right-minded people – and those who do not agree need to be made to agree; by force if necessary. Which is quite justified, because they are obviously people who hate, and shouldn’t be allowed out. Whether at night, or indeed at any other time – so, they have to be locked up.
It’s all straightforward: a perpetual self-justifying cycle, which never ends. To you and me and most folk, if only they would bother looking at it, it would be self-evidently autocratic, like a child stamping his foot in a temper until he gets his own way. To her, it’s nothing like that: she is doing all this to set the world right, for the good of everyone. In her own eyes she is a knight in shining white armour, who never does any wrong.
With this degree of self-illusion, she couldn’t possibly resign. Resign is what everybody else has to do. Everybody else, that is, whom she thinks ought to resign; she decides, and resign they will.
There are only two ways of getting her out of office. Either the police arrest her, or people vote her out. People in her constituency, and then people in her Party (but there is a fat chance of that happening with the weak knees and even weaker minds that compose the ever-subservient parliamentary party). Wee cowerin’ sleekit beasties, the lot of them … Who will cower on for ever, to make sure their feather-nested and rank infested nests are never overturned. They deserve no sympathy, and would get none from the ploughman poet – he would know fine well that the mouse he had inadvertently turned over was worth a sight more than (almost) any of them are.
Anyone else beginning to think that America might be behind all this? Granted that she must always have been whatever personality type she is anyway, the question remains who captured her and, above all, for what ends. She clearly does not belong to Scotland – Scotland is only a means to a greater end for her. In that case, why wouldn’t the source of all this be forces in the USA. The Clintons and the whole Self-ID agenda etc.; the international organisations with basically the same agenda, and so on. And the USA definitely do not want a nuclear-free Faslane.
Anyone ever feel that Scotland is being used as an experiment, by someone else? A kind of pilot project … Let’s try it out there first, and see what happens? After all, Scotland is smaller, population wise, than most of not (just about? or actually?) all American states. And who cares what happens there anyway … ?
As for Nicola, she’s perfect for the job: her level of self-justification is such that there is no dividing line between lies and truth any more. She can lie and lie and at the same time convince herself – truly – that she is the most honest and true person on the planet. People on here look at her and say ‘How can she be so brazen?’ She just looks back and says ‘How can anyone be so evil as to think, even for a millisecond, that what I am saying is untrue?’
She believes her own publicity: and you are expected to do the same. She has convinced herself, so you ought to be convinced as well. And if you are not, the problem is not that you are mistaken or a bit slow on the uptake, or whatever: it is that you are bad! And being a bad person, you are a danger to society, and have to be stopped.
There is no way out of this Catch-22 self-deception, which results in the illusion that you are always right – and that therefore, inevitably, those who disagree with you, or oppose you, are always wrong. No way out at all: no one will ever convince you that you are wrong, or that there are moral grounds on which you ought to resign. That will never happen. Absolutely never.
She can’t even get out of it herself. It just becomes more and more automatic, and more and more self-evident to her. If the committee finds against her, the committee must be wrong 9and ill-willed); if James Hamilton finds against her, he must be wrong too; if the electorate find against her, they’ll be wrong too.
It’s a parallel universe. Do not delude yourself that normal rules apply. They don’t. They just don’t …
Really, we should not delude ourselves.
The nightmare really is upon us …
Ruby says,
“Just sayin’ incase you were looking for me to vote for your boy Ananas.”
For the record, I hate Sarwar, but I hate Sturgeon infinitely more.
There has not been any unionist member of the Scottish parliament that has committed anywhere near the corruption, lies and criminality committed by Sturgeon.
Wull, to me she is more like a shite in whining armour than a knight in shining armour, but I get your point. She has an incredible Messiah Complex streak in her, disturbingly, like Tony Blair did. Even his 40 days and nights wandering in the Middle Eastern desert as penance for his crimes against humanity after he left office, and his adoption of Catholicism to try and assuage his huge burden of guilt, never ever worked. I wonder what Ms. Sturgeon’s New Agey religion of choice will be after she eventually leaves office to try and relieve her conscience will be? Something moongoddessy and earthfarty no doubt, female-centric….and definitely karma-free.
Hatuey says,
“Salmond, for some reason, seemed to suggest Hamilton would give an honest account, though.”
Hi might, but IMHO, he has deliberately delayed his report to the eve of the election so that it can be easily swept aside by Sturgeon – “let the people decide”.
The Criminal in Chief has for some reason everyone in her pocket.
Has she and Murrell been using that embezzled £600,000 to bribe all and sundry?
Let the people decide indeed – vote her out in her constituency.
I’ve got Kcor who has been a diehard Sturgeonista until about two weeks ago calling me names.
While you were ‘with Nicola’ being a diehard Sturgeonista I spotted a mental feminazi an predicted trouble.
I’m not talking about a couple of weeks ago when you read Stu’s ‘Uncertain Future’ article I’m talking about way back when she fired Mark MacDonald for sending a text.
I questioned how this so called feminist would have fared as a
suffragette and envisaged her saying ‘Oh no Emmeline you can’t do that it’s illegal.
I questioned how people like you who were at that time ‘with Nicola’ could ever imagine this timorous little asexual virgin could ever be seen as a revolutionary, someone who was going to gain Scotland independence. I came to the conclusion that you must have in a trace like some sort of demented member of a cult.
Unlike you I have never been a Sturgeonista!
@ Dee lightful re ‘This should never have happened. … far too many kept making excuses and cheerleading something they knew was fundamentally wrong or even corrupt.
What do ordinary voters like me do now? I can’t even see how this can be put right.’
Dee, you and I are the same age.
What is seeing me through, after a real downer about the situation a while back, is this.
All the folk before, who never gave up, not in 1979, not since then.
And this, the ideal time / leverage was (and to a large degree remains) Brexit. Timing wise (including Covid obstructions) that now means the next GE, which is 4 years. Which give us time to regroup and put the wheels back on.
If the SNP lose power at Holyrood – all the Brexshit damage – will be blamed on the unionist parties in Holyrood. And of course – Westminster.
If the SNP remain in power – they will be the whipping dog for the press and the media and the public will blame them.
If the SNP is in power – while Holyrood is robbed in plain daylight of its powers under the power grab – they will preside over a hollowed out Parliament, have very few chances to mitigate damage, never mind actually push forward progressive policies.
If the SNP remain in ‘power’ under the current leadership – well their track record for pushing for Indy is backwards – more asking nicely for a S30 order and another mandate. Which is just a sop for their supporters and a total waste of time.
An SNP that is chucked out of power, gets new leadership, loses the woke paracites, and decides to campaign in opposition for a Plebiscite Indy Election – is actually a really good thing – potentially.
So, tactically, its far from being all bad.
Further too, if ISP and AFI get elected, keep honest and able, then those MSP’s and MP#s currently not brave enough to stand up and be counted within the SNP, will potentially have another party to decant to. Real Politics – its not ideal, but if they have the seat, then, just like tories who decanted to the Brexit Party – it’ll have to do under the circumstances.
But more importantly – the voters will have someone to vote for standing up for Indy. Which has the potential to get the SNP back on track and keep them true.
Brexit has only just begun, its going to be fucking awful, whether we fight or whether we give up.
I’m for fighting and Plebiscite Indy Election at the next GE is the way to get it.
I have a question for all here, re attitudes – about a year ago, the presiding wisdom from our ‘cautious’ wheesht for Indy supporters was, ‘its too soon, don’t frighten the horses’. And I would suggest there were grounds for believing that was the general attitude amongst the public.
But given Brexshit, Boris and Covid – what is the mood music of the public now? I think they are absolutely bored witless by Covid, fed up and would thoroughly, embrace a positive campaign for change. I think they would deem it to be a practical thing to do. Especially if was coupled with a serious clean out of the SNP.
If the SNP lose power this election – just imagine the unmitigated disaster all those ‘talented’ Unionist MSPs are going to make running the country.
We cannot change the fact the at the moment we are paddling knee deep in shit. But we can certainly keep our heads up and make sure we steer the canoe in the right direction to get out of it.
I hope this helps, and best wishes for your health.
wull says,
“There are only two ways of getting her out of office. Either the police arrest her, or people vote her out.”
The police chief is in her pocket – remember how much resources he devoted to digging up dirt on Alex Salmond, harassing Craig Murray and Mark Hirst.
Voting her out in her constituency by voting tactically for Sarwar is the only way left.
Not only voting tactically, but as Ross Kilbride has said, actively campaigning against her.
Ruby says,
“I’ve got Kcor who has been a diehard Sturgeonista until about two weeks ago calling me names.”
What utter lies. Point me to one post where I have been a “Sturgeonista”, let alone a diehard one.
And what names have I called you?
You have been fully exposed as a diehard Sturgeonist, and that is not calling you names like “Ananas”.
Ruby says,
“While you were ‘with Nicola’ being a diehard Sturgeonista I spotted a mental feminazi an predicted trouble.
I’m not talking about a couple of weeks ago when you read Stu’s ‘Uncertain Future’ article I’m talking about way back when she fired Mark MacDonald for sending a text.”
Aye right. Yet you are dead against voting her out of parliament.
When we deliberately set out to destroy someone, the methods we use and the powers we abuse will only return to destroy ourselves. The law of karma is inescapable. Nicola Sturgeon can no longer move forward, nor can she retreat – she can only vacillate. She is a mortally wounded animal, exsanguinating the dream of independence for those who put their faith in her.
Ruby says,
“I questioned how people like you who were at that time ‘with Nicola’ could ever imagine this timorous little asexual virgin could ever be seen as a revolutionary, someone who was going to gain Scotland independence. I came to the conclusion that you must have in a trace like some sort of demented member of a cult.”
Aye right. Yet you are dead against voting her out of parliament.
I am sorry I am laughing so much I need to take a wee break.
Having consumed Craig Murray’s chat I cannot understand why there is not a Police Investigation into the setting up of Mr Salmond.
The present SNP leadership cannot continue to stand.
@ TheSNPLeftMe at 10.11: did you see my comment at 9.44 explaining the reason for the jump in AFI funding figure on the fundraiser? It was caused by the merging of the old donation site with the new one.
Kcor says:
You have been fully exposed as a diehard Sturgeonist, and that is not calling you names like “Ananas”
Reply
🙂
Oh no don’t call me pineapple especially not in Spanish!
Who have you been supporting since 2014?
@Daisy Walker (10.41) –
‘But given Brexshit, Boris and Covid – what is the mood music of the public now? I think they are absolutely bored witless by Covid, fed up and would thoroughly, embrace a positive campaign for change. I think they would deem it to be a practical thing to do. Especially if was coupled with a serious clean out of the SNP.’
FWIW, I’ve joined Now Scotland.
I don’t want to join any political party. Scunnered with them all. Just want to get the nearest thing possible to the great gatherings of 2013/14. Of course, ‘gatherings’ won’t be allowed anytime soon, so this is the closest I can get, for now.
It looks like Fabiani, Hamilton and Lady D on the CM case are all delaying as long as possible, hoping for the others to go first, terrified of being the one singled out for delivering a wrong verdict.
I would not be surprised if all three have written two reports to pick from.
Is it possible that Nicola and her ring kissing MSPs recognized that at some point jam ramorra would stop working?
They took a look at who the most likely true champion of the people would be and decided that AS would be their biggest problem so they set about trying to take him down.
I have never come up with a satisfactory reason as to why they went after Alex, who was essentially out of politics anyway.
If Independence was being frittered away by troughers, that might bring him back and a preemptive strike might be a way to take him out.
Ruby, your ‘timorous little asexual virgin’ quote seems right on the money to me. We all know the ‘rumours’ (heard in different places in Scotland from different people who never met each other, from all different levels of society, all with the same details – funny, that) about her Sapphic tendencies. What there does geniuinely seem to be is a quality of sexual rage and confusion and disgust and frustration in her youthful supporters, real body horror; they sense this in her, and her acceptance and encouragement of them in their wildest mentally ill delusions. She does not give off a sexual vibe at all, and there seems to be some sort of puritan disgust with sex behind it all. But who knows. Wouldn’t even be thinking like this at all, but her mollycoddling of the sexually confused mentally ill segments of society, and the damage this has caused, makes everything fair game.
I vote with my conscience. Many years ago I did live briefly in Govanhill, but that was a long time ago. Not there now. If I still did, I couldn’t possibly vote for Sarwar. I would be hoping that another pro-Indy independent candidate would stand, if only to take votes from Sturgeon. If such a one were someone half-reasonable, I suppose I would vote for them.
If no such pro-Indy alternative candidate stands, I would have to spoil the constituency vote with ‘N O N E’ written right across it, and probably vote AFI on the list.
Obviously, people should do what they think is best, each of us according to our own lights. If I certainly can’t vote for the Devil, I am not going to vote for the Deep Blue Sea either. Nobody whom I so deeply disagree with will ever get any of my votes.
I would like to see pro-Indy independents standing in quite a few constituencies: against John Swinney and Angus Robertson in their respective seats for a starter, and quite a few others besides.
Nicola Sturgeon will be gone shortly folks.
The only game in town is SNP1 / AFI2.
In an independence election a majority vote in favour of independence means independence, like now.
Everything else is just noise.
This is a completely O/T posting.
My eyesight, not being what it once was, has struggled with trying to figure out what parts of some of these postings are the quotes of previous posts, and what are the responses, especially when reading them on the phone.
If it’s of any use to anyone, you can use the following formatting to make posts a wee bit easier to parse for us Magoos…
<blockquote>
</blockquote>
And back again..
<b>bolds text</b> ( <strong>does the same..</strong> )
<i>italicises text</i> ( <em>does the same..</em> )
You can combine the use of bold and italic
<b><i>‘Boldy Italicy texty quoty stuff….’</i></b>
(if you do combine them, remember, if you start with a <b>. finish with a </b>..)
Alf Baird says:
19 March, 2021 at 11:13 pm
Nicola Sturgeon will be gone shortly folks
I wish I shared your optimism. I fear that she will stay and do yet more damage not only to the SNP but to the country. She will just stick it out and is astute enough to know that the general membership and non-member voters either do not understand or do not care for the wrongs she has done.
They are deluded into thinking that indyref2 will be delivered “when the time is right” and they will hold her up as their national hero just as so many Americans do to Trump.
NS is here to stay, whatever Hamilton states in his report.
The ‘jigsaw identification’ we’ve become used to hearing about is usually couched in an excuse of sorts.
But real jigsaw identification happens all the time, and it’s the kind that matters – we all do it every day.
I don’t know if a ‘super injunction’ is the same as a D-notice. The terms seems to have become interchangeable. But neither can be applied to ordinary citizens, many of whom have the unfortunate habit of talking to one another, masked or not.
Nicola Sturgeon’s name is now, for many people, synonymous with filth, narcissism and illegality.
No ‘popular’ political party can ‘knowingly’ tolerate such a character as leader – none of us would accept such behaviour from a family member, so why accept it from someone who is supposed to represent us?
Makes no sense.
Ouch!, apologies
that previous post looked ok in the preview..Oh well, have a look at
link to wpbtips.wordpress.com
(Bear in mind, not all formatting tags work here)
Well here is someone standing in Edinburgh against Robertson if anyone is interested.
link to twitter.com
An alternative to Angus Robertson/spoilt paper if you’re in Edinburgh Central link to youtube.com
I was reminded of this scene earlier and frankly it sums up this whole sorry saga, or rather, what is more interesting, the reaction of so many of our supposed friends and allies to the exposure of this whole sorry saga:
“Deep down inside in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that [blog], you NEED me on that [blog]…we use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something; you use them as a punchline”.
link to m.youtube.com
If Sturgeon isn’t gone by next week. When Holyroods term comes to an end. Then she will be there in May.
Next week is the big week folks. She certainly won’t resign. So it will require Hamilton to deliver the knockout. Her wry smirk suggests she is confident James Hamilton won’t say she is guilty.
I hope I am wrong.
How to guarantee Sturgeon survives. Get the diseased Red Tory twat who refused to prosecute Jimmy Saville to ask for her resignation.
link to thenational.scot
The international reputation of scotland is in tatters. All trust in our institutions has broken down. I am now ashamed to say I live in scotland.
msdidi at 11.41 I watched the video. Absolutely brilliant! Delighted this is happening.
Maybe this exactly what Scotland needs ,more independents that don’t bow down to party’s or whips when important matters come b4 parliament for voting.
So get voting for Bob in Edinburgh Central you lot up there.
I think it is an exaggeration to say that all Scottish institutions are broken. The fault line of misdeeds is rather narrow.
For example I wish to look closer at Mutiplex,the main contractor in the building of the Glasgow QE hospital and the Edinburgh Sick Kids.
Starting with political donations.how much have the Tories gained from them?
Anybody?
link to caltonjock.com
31 Oct: A senior SNP officer, Ms Anne Harvey, based in Westminster was inundated with telephone text messages asking for information about Alex Salmond. suggesting that a fishing expedition had started in earnest well before the involvement of Ms A, Ms B or Ms H. Anne worked with Alex Salmond for many years and was an important witness for the defence, (until her evidence was redacted by the Crown). She was also at the time, a close friend of at least one of the complainers.
@ msdidi: I couldn’t agree more with every word of BonniePrinceBob’s video. Is it the constituency or the list he’s standing for? Perhaps that should be obvious, but he doesn’t make it clear.
I’m not optimistic about prying her fingers off the levers of power, but all of us who have been following this know how guilty she is – and the prevailing opinion is that James Hamilton has integrity. Those in James Hamilton’s world are also aware of everything that’s been going on too, so it would be very visible if he put up an umbrella to keep her out of the rain.
Andy Wightman crossed the floor – and credit to him for that.
Ruby says,
“Just sayin’ incase you were looking for me to vote for your boy Ananas.”
Ruby says,
“Reply
?
Oh no don’t call me pineapple especially not in Spanish!
Who have you been supporting since 2014?”
Can’t you even remember calling someone Ananas a couple of hours ago?
You accused me of being a “diehard Sturgeonista”.
Look up my posts and show me a single one suggesting I was a “Sturgeonista”.
On the other hand, you have proved yourself a diehard Sturgeonist on this very thread.
Some of us can see through the lies of yourself and ScottishRenewableLies you know.
So, you bunch of clever crackpots, I have a question…
Q) Of all the issues the Inquiry could have given focus and emphasis to, of all the gaping flaws and inaccuracies that a child could drive a horse and cart through, why all this emphasis on the seemingly trivial question of whether Sturgeon said she’d intervene or not?
Why that? Why?
Bonnie Prince Bob represents a sector of Scottish society which many,like me think is wonderful.in theory. However these views rarely attract more than 2% of the vote.
@ Hatuey at 12.58am: Because it shows Sturgeon to be a bare-faced liar who says one thing and does the opposite, surely? That is utterly despicable.
Someone has just launched a Change.org petition, on ‘behalf of the people of Scotland’, asking Nicola Sturgeon not to resign.
That’s where we’re at.
“Certainly we want no devolution. We want no Ulster model of Parliament in Edinburgh at all. We want complete control over our own affairs including above all finance, foreign affairs, and defence. Once we have got that, we can look the whole world in the face again as we have done before” – Huh MacDiarmid, 1962 Edinburgh International Writers’ Conference. The more things change.
Edit: Hugh MacDiarmid. Obviously.
Michael Laing
He specifically says he is taking on Angus for the constituency.
Famous15
With help and support from all the Independence supporters who would otherwise spoil their 1st vote ballot rather than give it to Angus Robertson, and if folk share the video/donate to help his campaign what’s to stop him succeeding? If he was standing in Perth I’d vote for him rather than spoil my paper – which is what I’m probably going to have to do. I’ve made a wee contribution. It seems like a good cause now that I’m no longer donating to the SNP and I cancelled my National subscription this week too!
link to gofundme.com
Michael Laing, correct.
I’ve given it some thought. I came to the conclusion that the Committee actually did something quite clever here.
I suspect they are leaving the more overt Ministerial Code stuff to Hamilton.
Is it possible though that the Committee is pointing to something quite specific, though?
It’s one thing to stab a friend in the back, terrible and despicable, but to pretend to be on his side when he comes to you in distress looking for help… that’s several floors below back-stabbing, isn’t it?
Is that what the Committee is giving emphasis to?
I could not vote for the SNP under Nicola Sturgeon. I believe in always doing the right thing. It is foolish to do the wrong thing and hope for the right outcome.
Craig Murrays latest video was brilliant btw.
Very much worth watching link to craigmurray.org.uk
@Daisy Walker – Please just accept Daisy that some folk have no political allegiences at-all and never have had. I’m one of them. I look around me and see a corrupt and nasty wee country which has become so bad it will inevitably lead to people being killed needlessly. I’m not a fool, but I am a pragmatist. Holyrood is a failure, just close it down.
Of all the issues the Inquiry could have given focus and emphasis to, of all the gaping flaws and inaccuracies that a child could drive a horse and cart through, why all this emphasis on the seemingly trivial question of whether Sturgeon said she’d intervene or not?
Isn’t it obvious? The main point of the enquiry for unionists and the media has always been to conclude Nicola tried to cover up for the evil Alex. The SNP members want to conclude Sturgeon didn’t cover up for the evil Alex. None of them have any interest in the truth, far less helping Salmond. The enquiry is and was always going to whitewash the real issues. Expect a whole lot of “poor, failed women” and “bad rapey man” in the narrative. Both the unionists and SNP (and the media) will be perfectly happy squabbling in that little bit of technical ground the public don’t care about.
That’s what makes it so obvious the unionists and New SNP are on the same side here: Salmond had to be destroyed because he was the real threat to the status quo. Sturgeon is establishment and doing their work for them. Whether she was at the start or just thought she could rid herself of a rival, who knows? But she’s doing their work now. The unionists care not a jot whether she resigns or limps on until May leading a trashed party and fractured movement.
Wait a minute, CM is still awaiting a verdict?
That is completely unfair, immoral and no doubt politically motivated.
Same thing happened to the nazi pug guy too….hmmmm…
ScotsRenewables says:
19 March, 2021 at 2:50 pm
Quote:-
“Just watched Craig’s video.
No wonder he’s depressed.
I’m depressed now.”
That is very unfortunate; however welcome to the reality faced by the majority of Scottish citizen’s when a certain poison dwarf opens her gob.
It is, as I have often said, al so f***ing sad. It really is.
NS was literally gifted the political opportunity of the century. A strong, rock-solid grass-roots support, that was quite literally chomping at the bit to progress things. In six years, she has alienated almost all those people, relying on dwindling support from frankly deranged ‘wokies’ obsessed with removing women’s rights and the rights of same-sex attracted gay men and women.
NS has squandered the political opportunity of the century. Her predecessor, a man of the very greatest integrity, Alex Salmond, gave her this on a plate. In turn she seemingly tried in the most wicked way to destroy him. Evil is as evil does as they say.
One gooid thing has come from this, hiowever. The independence movement has realised it simply MUST be bigger than any one political party. The SNP under sturgeon is no longer the party of independence, it is the party of talking about referendums, a failure of leadership, spiteful back-stabbing and endless, endless dithering.
Nicola Sturgeon should be utterly, utterlyu ashamed of her own behaviour. Though I doubt she has the moral integrioty to ever do so.
At the forthcoming election, my first vote will go to the SNP. That, however, is not an endorsement of Sturgeon and her husband, they are both an utter disgrace in my eyes. I will vote SNP for one reason alon, and it is this. On 7th May, one of three people will be First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, Anas Sarwar (millionaire) or Douglas Ross the football linesman (who was a bully at school, and is seemingly a compulsive liar). re-electing the SNP is the least worst option.
Do I think we will get an indyref if the SNP are re-elected, even with a pro indy majority in the parliament? No. But with any other party elected we will see devolution reversed, pretty damn quickly.
So, we must elect the SNP, then the independence movmement must work to push, push, push, in every way, to literally FORCE independence. Soon, we will be able to have indy marches and demonstrations. These MUST be used to hammer home the message that Scotland will not wait. Not even for the SNP. The first march should be to BUTE House, with a simple message, ‘get us independence, or get out’.
We want independence. Not in a few years, but as soon as possible. It is that simple. The SNP leadership can either get on board or we will metaphorically trample all over them. We see you Nicola, we SEE you. We will not forget.
Enough is enough. Get on with it, FFS.
@RL
So you’re going to force Nicola Sturgeon’s hand by voting for her… I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when I read stuff like that.
Hatuey@2:17
Thanks for posting the pod cast by Craig Murry, so much info and so much to think about, folks really should watch it.
It was Stu who directed me to support CM and Iscot instead of Wings (as he said Wings coffers were in good shape) and I am decidedly glad that I did just that. Money well spent.
Once again thanks Stu and also a hearty thanks the CM for all his efforts, I very much share your feelings regarding independence and the awful state of Scottish politics and institutions.
Bonnie Prince Bob’s video -see btl at 11.41 – is a breath of fresh air – describes the problems of Edinburgh very clearly.
Will replacing middle class MSPs and parties be enough to put things right? It is a bit of a broad brush approach – but fun!
Shocked at 0744am,
Lesser of three evils, as I actually made clear in my posting. Despite my dislike of the current SNP leader, I will vote SNP, to ensure the unionist clowns Sarwar and Ross do not become First Minister.
Post election, three people could be first minister, Sarwar (London Labour), Ross (general clown, London Tory boy, ‘linesman’) or Sturgeon.
SNP/Sturgeon is the least worst option. If we do not vote SNP the unionists will form the next Scottish government.
Try reading, before commenting.
My wish that
‘Someday my prince would come’
has come true!
Big X for Bob!
As an Edinburgh Central voter, it’s good to have an alternative to the Sturgeonista stooge Robertson being parachuted into the constituency. If enough of us vote for Bonnie Prince Bob it will hopefully embolden those in the SNP who still have backbones to reclaim their party!
Vote Bonnie Prince Bob!
link to gofundme.com
This Civil Service/Political world where nobody touches, flirts or has affairs with colleagues is not something I have ever experienced. Maybe in a sci-fi novel about androids but never in the real world.
My experience has been
people meet at work, go to the pub together, have relationships & often get married
bosses do the same even bosses that are married.
I have never worked anywhere that has a ‘no fraternisation policy’
Socialising/bonding was encouraged with the companies arranging social events, sports teams, week-ends away etc all with the bosses taking part and acting as normal human beings.
@Robert Louis
Then you’re delusional. Anyone voting SNP now, however frantically they dance on the head of a pin trying to justify their lack of principle, is very much part of the problem not part of the solution.
The SNP is now a bin fire. It is neither competent to govern, nor is it truly committed to delivering independence in any realistic timescale. Sadly, enough of the sheeple and the the unreasoning #IStandWithNicola Loyal will still dutifully vote for them as if nothing had changed since she wowed the masses at the hydro. Nothing she could do would convince the low voltage lumpen acolytes to abandon her.
There won’t be a unionist FM. Even if the SNP (hopefully) fails to gain a majority, there will still be a pro-indy majority with the Greens and possibly other pro-indy MSPs.
What we have to ensure is that Sturgeon is politically defenestrated from Bute house with enough force she lands the other side of the Edinburgh bypass.
@RL
Sturgeon, corrupt lying bastard who tried to jail a political opponent, has corrupted the legal system to the extent it will not be fixed until she is gone, has made freedom of thought illegal, is currently threatening the press with prosecution and who when the truth outs (though as long as she is around it won’t) is heading to jail.
If you think that is even an option then I seriously worry for your sanity. People like you are the ones on the ramparts of today’s cartoons shooting the messenger pigeons.
Vote Sturgeon’s SNP, get East Germany.
@ msdidi at 1.46am: Thank you for clarifying that BonniePrinceBob is standing for the constituency. I’m in Edinburgh Central and I will be more than happy to give him my vote.
I’m sorry, but I’m not jumping on this Bonnie Prince Bob is God bandwagon. I’ve seen some stupid campaigning, but this really resets the bar.
Having a Screaming Lord Sutch type name whilst using Open University Lecture lingo in a “See you Jimmy/River City” accent – Political F**king Suicide in one compact lesson.
The opener reads as follows:
“‘Un Nin’een Sevvny Three, John Paul Sattra wrote a seminal essay entiled ‘Elections: A Trap For Fools’. In it, he explained why votin’ fur bourgeois polli’ikal par’ies is a trap, becuz bourgeois polli’ikal par’ies only represent the interests o’ Private Cap’i’al”
99% of the population don’t care a flying f**k about John Paul Sartre. He’s only still relevent to Guardian readers. Just saying the name to most people instantly switches on their “pretentious wanker alert” alarm.
Never mind the fact Sartre wasn’t saying anything earth shatteringly new anyway – writers from A.K. Chesterton to Noam Chomsky were cynically mouthing much the same platitudes ten years earlier, as did Ken Livingstone ten years later whilst still asking people to vote for him!
I can guarantee 99% of viewers will have turned off after “seminal” and “bourgeois” and thought at once “gadgie who’s gone tae the auld tech college ‘n now ‘hinks he’s better than everyone like that c**t in Citizen Smith on UK Gold.”
As for “Five decades later, and the fact that your teenage daughter thinks that selling explicit images of herself on OnlyFans is a legitimate career path perfectly illustrates the moral bankruptcy of neo-liberal capitalism.” – I can guarantee most under 30s will fall around laughing while shouting “OK BOOMER!” or more than likely, “OK GAMMON!”
Nothing quite says “sad out of touch misogynist old fart” than saying “your precious daughter is whoring herself on scary new tech, and that it’s all part of some bigger, sinister picture says “Reads the Daily Mail while pretending they don’t”.
Craig Murray may think this guy’s the messiah, but to me he seems just another Old Holborn with much the same delusions.
@ Famous15 at 12.58am: This is no ordinary election in no ordinary constituency. It has been gerrymandered and rigged by the SNP, imposing an unwanted candidate on voters who would otherwise spoil their ballot papers or not vote at all. BonniePrinceBob’s chances of winning may not be high, but he might be the man to thwart Robertson’s ambitions. I suspect others will feel the same.
@ Mark Boyle: Who are you going to vote for, then? If it’s the SNP or any unionist party, you’re unlikely to convince many people amongst the commenters here. Do you even live in Edinburgh Central?
Ruby says:
19 March, 2021 at 9:02 pm
Menstruator says:
19 March, 2021 at 8:11 pm
Ruby at 7.22 –
Sleepy Cuddle lady was the subject of 2 charges, sexual assault with intent to rape (the sleepy cuddle) and sexual assualt by a kiss on the mouth.
______________________
I think people need to get this into perspective. The woman who had the sleepy cuddle with Alex, accepted his apology & though had the chance to move sections within gov, same status & pay decided not to. She worked with Alex for years after.
If there was an attempt to rape, do you think any woman would continue working along side that man? No way!
The insertion of attempt to rape “after” was done for the benefit of the criminal investigation, to try & convict an innocent man.
Nicola Sturgeon & her cohorts are evil women. Shame on any man that helped in this evil. Do you not know what damage you’re doing to your own gender?
If a man rejects a woman’s advances, can he be subject to accusations as mere revenge? Where the hell will this end?
Women aren’t the only ones feeling threatened by this insidious government, men are also being threatened.
I’m of the older generation. I’m in my 70s. I had a great social life was popular & had many boyfriends. I think back on the nights standing on your doorstep kissing & cuddling, until one of your parents made a sign “rattling milk bottles that needed put out.” it was time you came in. LOL
Though I lived by my parental upbringing, keep yourself for the man you marry.
I don’t believe in that now. However I don’t believe in having too many relationships.
I believe in quality, not quantity.
The way the young ones are with this wokinism is really worrying. It’s almost as if they don’t value who they are as a person & are just going with the crowd.
As a teenager if I had gone with the crowd in my area, I would have got into a crowd of girls that were seen as the town bikes.
Instead I had male friends who alerted me to the girls I should stay clear of. I thank these lads today as I was very naive back then.
I’m sure there are many young people who socialise & don’t have contact to these weirdos that are on social media.
I guess things are the same as they were when I was a teen with the hippy movement & free sex. Children brought up to be confident in who they are won’t be succumbed to these beliefs.
Sorry for going of topic. But it’s important that family values are held above politics.
To be fair to the SNP, no one anywhere has produced a “credible plan for independence”. Indeed no one has produced even an incredible plan for independence, other than the very quickly forgotten “we’”ll see..” of the Growth Commission.
Until and unless someone in the independence movement summons both the gumption and the courage to at least try to address the issues of concern to the majority who remain opposed to separation from the UK, then debating the question of holding a referendum which cannot be won by the supporters of independence would seem pointless?
@Michael Laing says: 20 March, 2021 at 10:55 am
“@ Mark Boyle: Who are you going to vote for, then? If it’s the SNP or any unionist party, you’re unlikely to convince many people amongst the commenters here. Do you even live in Edinburgh Central?”
Oh come on, there’s nothing more feeble than resorting to the “So what team/band, etc do you support then?” whataboutery fallacy.
A shit campaign is a shit campaign, no matter how good or how shit anyone else’s is – and this guy has just about broken every single rule on fighting an election properly.
I see Garavelli’s back with a rewrite of her single transferable article and she might even have thrown in a new bit of jigsaw identification.
link to lrb.co.uk
@Mark Boyle 11.38pm
Sheesh…the point whistling by your head must fair have sucked the air out of your lungs bud!
Nobody expects him to win. Look at the numbers. It’s quite easy to envisage a few hundred disgruntled Edinburgh Central voters costing the SNP this seat. Baroness Davidson won it by just over 600 votes last time. If the Greens hadn’t stood a candidate the SNP would have walked it, but they’re doing the same in May.
Both Michael Laing and I live in Edinburgh Central. Looks like 2 votes for BPB already. I don’t care if he’s a pseud or even that Rev Stu thinks he’s a knob: if he deprives Robertson of the seat I’m all for him!
Arch Stanton @ 11:12 am
“no one anywhere has produced a “credible plan for independence”.
As if India, Ireland, Kenya, and a great many other ex colonies needed a “credible plan for independence” before removing the oppressor who had exploited and plundered and manipulated them for centuries.
Independence is about the national liberation of a people and their culture. You cannot put a value on that. Ask any independent country the price of their giving up sovereignty in return for enslavement. They would laugh at you.
Independence is decolonisation, the opposite of which is colonialism, which the UN considers “a scourge” that should be ended.
msdidi @ 1:46 am
Whit a braw video and narrative by Bonny Prince Bob, totally nails Scotland’s colonialism big time and in which Edinburgh Central is possibly the mankit epicentre. Gaun yersel BPB – and consider joining Dave Thomson’s AFI by the way so you are part of the big change a comin.
link to gofundme.com
Youse do know that Bonnie Prince Bob hates ‘incel’ (his word) Stu Campbell and Craig Murray, whom he regards as a conspiracy theorist, right? He’s a very minor wattage wannabe-celeb who has been floating round on the social media circuit doing fuck-the-Edinburgh-interlopers videos for a couple of years now, trying and failing to get the odd Kickstarter project funded.
Found a couple of his political videos quite enlightening, but have zero idea (he always tries to present himself as a slightly ageing gonzo druggie anarchy type) what he would be like as a politician. Go check out his videos on YouTube for a wider overview.
Mark Boyle @ 10:47 am
“I’m sorry, but I’m not jumping on this Bonnie Prince Bob is God bandwagon.”
Fine, leave Edinburgh Central to whatever bourgeois candidates the unionist parties stand which includes Angus Robertson.
Sartre by the way was well up to speed on decolonisation which implies BPB is on the right track. An a shuid ken, as a school laddie a uised tae deliver the milk in Edinburgh Central.
Alf – Exactly.
Scotland must be the only wannabee nation,that wants it’s entire first 10 years of independence,written on an accountants spreadsheet. Before it votes to be a nation.
Every other nation votes for independence first , and the rest takes care of itself.
What a cowardly unpatriotic lot the 55% were.
I couldn’t give a shit if I end up living in a portaloo. It would still be better than being British.
India, Ireland and Kenya…….a list of countries nobody would move to.
Shaza- Ireland has one of the fastest growing economies in Europe. Anyway how about Canada, USA, Austrailia, New Zealand. All former British colonies!
My wife and grown up daughter says Alex Salmond is just a sleasy toad who took advantage of women when in a position of power. I pointed out he was found innocent by a high court jury with and a majority of women. They maintain that their view is the shared view by many many women today.They say Alex Salmond started all this and no one else is to blame and if we get knocked back for independence it is all his fault. I should point out I am a fully paid up SNP member….at present.
There appear to be those who believe Scotland is a colony of the UK, that the cause of separation from the UK is one of freedom from “enslavement” and that nothing more credible is required to persuade a majority to leave the UK.
As a newcomer to this site, can I ask if this is a popular belief and on what it is based?
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
20 March, 2021 at 1:29 pm
“That’s utterly wishful thinking, I’m afraid. As we’ve documented at some length, there is now no effective means for the party membership to have any impact on either policy or strategy”
As I’ve said repeatedly BTL here, there IS a way for the membership to have an impact – tell the MSPs that they are boycotting all fundraising and campaigning until Sturgeon and Murrell are gone. Tell your MSPs, MPs, Councillors and branch officers that they’ll get no money while that duo are in office. Don’t just toss the raffle tickets in the bin, post them back with a note that tells them exactly why you’re not supporting the SNP under Sturgeon.
The SNP are stoney broke thanks to Murrell’s mis-management. They are reduced to begging members to pay their subs 3 months early just to meet their day-to-day running costs. Spend 1.5 million on the election? Where’s that going to come from? They are relying on the members once again putting their hands in their pockets to bail them out. Just as they take your votes for granted, so they take your money for granted too. It’s time to stand up and tell them you won’t be taken for mugs any more!
Money is the lifeblood of elections. Without money for TV ads, campaign literature and volunteers to campaign for them the SNP candidates are headed for defeat and they know it. As Dr Johnson said, nothing concentrates a man’s mind so much as the knowledge that he is going to be hanged in the morning. Make it clear to the MSPs that either Sturgeon & Murrell go or they do.
I’m just a voice crying out in the BTL wilderness here. It needs people with a public profile to call upon the SNP membership to revolt – you Stu Campbell, Jim Sillars, Denise Finlay, Chris McEleny, Iain Lawson – the discontent among the membership is palpable but it needs leadership. This is the last chance to reclaim the SNP before the election. If you don’t you’ll have 5 years to regret it.
Arch Stanton @ 2:47
“There appear to be those who believe Scotland is a colony .. and on what it is based?”
There are numerous indicators and clues for those who remain oblivious to Scotland’s political reality. One of the most important indicators is that Scotland has no veto in an alleged treaty-based union/alliance of equals.
Some more reading on the subject here:
link to newsnet.scot
I can also recommend Hechter’s ‘Internal Colonialism: The Celtic Fringe in British National Development’.
link to amazon.co.uk
The UN considered Ireland as a former colony, and the leader of Plaid Adam Price wrote this book: ‘Wales – The First and Final Colony’. Scotland’s colonial subjugation seems little different.
So ‘Sleepy Cuddle’ lady excepted Alex Salmond’s apology for that cuddle and then went onto work with him for years. Then years later she raised a rape allegation against him in relation to the same incident. Alarming to say the least
Craig Murray in his video stated that he is in contact with ‘Sleepy Cuddle’ lady. This story gets stranger by the day.
StuartM says: at 3:05 pm
“As I’ve said repeatedly BTL here, there IS a way for the membership to have an impact – tell the MSPs that they are boycotting all fundraising and campaigning until Sturgeon and Murrell are gone. Tell your MSPs, MPs, Councillors and branch officers that they’ll get no money while that duo are in office. Don’t just toss the raffle tickets in the bin, post them back with a note that tells them exactly why you’re not supporting the SNP under Sturgeon.”
I previously suggested extra leverage could also be applied to influence change within the party if not only members, but SNP supporters as identified on the SNP Activate canvas database notified the organisation that they will no longer support the party unless it changes tack.
However, we now live in a world where so many folk lack any practical skills or gumption, and thus they don’t recognise or know how to use the tools that are available to us.
Does anyone here, other than Alf Baird, honestly believe that simply laying an extremely dubious claim to the victimhood of colonisation and enslavement is a sufficient case for separation, which has a chance of persuading a majority of Scots to vote to leave the UK?
Arch Stanton @ 5:02
“persuading a majority of Scots to vote to leave the UK?”
The important matter of Scottish national independence is more complex than this primarily due to the demographics involved and an irregular franchise. Possibly as many as half of ‘No’ voters are not Scots, and this group do not hold to a Scottish identity or a sense of belonging to Scotland (rejecting Scottish nationality and citizenship), which is to some extent itself a function of colonialism.
A majority of Scots are believed to have voted for independence in 2014, according to the Scottish Referendum Survey which concluded that: “Scotland only remained in the Union because of the views of those who were born in other parts of Britain and further afield” (McIntosh 2015).
Does anyone else here agree with Alf Baird, that not only is there no need to make a case for independence, credible or otherwise, because our obvious status as an enslaved colony should be sufficient, and that a majority of Scots voted for independence in 2014, only to be foiled by non – Scots?
Bonny Prince Bob for Edinburgh Central?
I remember him from 2015 when he fronted ‘James Murphy, Saviour of the Union’.
A brilliant piece of satire.
On YouTube—-a must see for Newbies to the Indy Cause. Welcome.
link to tinyurl.com
@ Arch Stanton
No, in fact. The “Scotland as colony” schtick is very much a minority obsession amongst most nats. Alf loves to peddle it, but it becomes no more convincing for the constant repetition.
Trying to characterise Scotland as a colony not only demeans the lived experience of real colonies, it attempts to let faint hearted Scots without the balls to take their self determination, rather than ask Westminster’s gracious permission, off the hook of their own political cowardice I’m afraid.
Nothing sadly will convince Alf of the inherent wrongness of his views, or that they are in fact disrespectful of the suffering of those in actual colonial situations. In the end it’s a lost cause with him, because of course in the end the real issue isn’t whether the last 300 years in a Union (which let’s remember the majority of Scots were happy to support and participate in) represent colonialism, or even – which is more defensible – some form of exploitation of parts of our society short of full blown colonialism, it is the simple fact that we are one of the few peoples in the world without the balls to exercise our own rights, despite advantes which virtually no other people seeking self determination has ever enjoyed.
We’re not colonised, we’re just co-dependant.
Thanks Andy Ellis,
As things stand, I am one of those who is yet to be convinced that separating from the UK is the best way forward for Scotland and the Scottish people, but I do enjoy respectful debate and have been impressed by the passion of many who disagree with me
I have yet to hear a genuine case however, credible or otherwise, which might persuade those of us you describe as somewhat lacking in the testicular department to change our minds. This does not mean that my mind is closed to the idea of separation, but merely that something a little more substantial than slogans would be required to convince me and so I continue to seek such a case.
I live in hope…
@ Fraser MacKintosh at 2.32pm: I had exactly the same argument with my mother yesterday. I said firmly that Alex Salmond was found innocent in court and the accusers presented no genuine evidence to back up their claims, yet she still insisted that Salmond had done wrong and the whole situation was his fault. It was infuriating and thoroughly depressing. However, I think the explanation is that people whose view of the world is shaped by the BBC News have no awareness of the facts of this case. When people have placed so much faith in Sturgeon, it’s extremely difficult for them to accept that they’ve been cheated and lied-to. Cognitive dissonance. But I take consolation in the knowledge that the truth is going to emerge into the public domain sooner or later.
@Arch Stanton
You’ll find a huge section of the current Yes movement have followed the path from No to Yes Arch. The % in favour rose around 20% over the period of the #indyref1 campaign. Lot’s of us have made the journey from supporting devolution to full independence. Of course, it may never be possible to convince you of the case for independence, any more than it would (now) be possible to convince me of the positive case for the union.
In reality, there is no risk free path. Of course there will be risks as well as opportunities if Scots vote for independence, just as there are risks and opportunities stayin in the union. Recall that we were assured that the only way to remian in the EU was to vote No in 2014. We were also assured a Yes vote would be an economic catastrophe. No real evidence was ever produced for that of course, just a lot of assertion and scare mongering. The No campaign wasn’t called Project Fear by its own creators for nothing.
Of course the decision by English nationalists to leave the EU has holed the (already questionable) economic case for the union below the water line.
Even with all the recent events in the SNP, the nationalist case rests fundamentally on an argument that smaller polities are more accountable, more agile and tend to produce better outcomes. Look at the relative performance of Ireland (particularly versus Northern Ireland) since the 1970’s in comparison with most areas of the UK.
You may be happy with the kind of system and governance offered by post brexit UK: many of us aren’t. We can and should expect better.
Andy & Arch
If you don’t believe independence is decolonisation, the latter involving the national liberation and therefore the freedom of ‘a people’, perhaps you might explain what you think independence is?
Worth remembering here some of Frantz Fanon’s conclusions on the impact of colonialism on the human mind, from a psychologist who treated both sides of the chasm, no less:
“a people can be totally brainwashed by colonialism”
“the colonized have a depersonalized self”
“the objective (of the colonized) is to be an imitation of the colonizer”
“A country under colonial domination requires liberating the mind”
@Alf
It’s not that hard Alf, unless one is so totally blinkered by one concept that it leaves no room for any nuance or doubt in ones mind that there are other – more convincing – explanations. Independence MAY be decolonisation, but it is not invariably so.
I realise from your earlier posts how fond your are of quoting Fanon: I remain unconvinced that he’d have been at all convinced by your argument that the Scots qualified as colonised. I doubt many of his contemporaries in the FLN would either!
Andy
“Independence MAY be decolonisation, but it is not invariably so.”
Well, that’s on the surface a little progress, but you still avoid my question to you that if independence is not (“invariably”) decolonisation, then:
“perhaps you might explain what you think independence is?”
@Alf
Extracting ourselves from a union. Nobody is stopping us except ourselves. Scotland =/= New Caldonia however earnestly you believe in the false equivalence.
Andy Ellis @ 11:03
“Extracting ourselves from a union. Nobody is stopping us except ourselves.”
Your supposed ‘union’, given enforced Brexit etc, is rather a charade and political con trick played out on naïve Scots, is it not. Moreover, I’ve already explained, by reference to empirical research, that:
1. perhaps half of No voters are not Scottish, being predominantly settlers/colonisers, and;
2. there exists also the colonial mindset of Scottish ‘No’ voters.
Fanon also tells us that:
“the native is an alien in his own country under colonialism”.
And, in this regard, after national independence:
“there is not only the disappearance of colonialism but also the disappearance of the colonized man.”
Again, I repeat, if independence is not (“invariably”) decolonisation, then:
“perhaps you might explain what you think independence is?”
Morning Andy,
I decided to post my original comment, because the writer of the article made the point, not unreasonably, that the SNP had failed to make a credible case for independence. My own point, in response, was highlight that actually no one had made such a case and I maintain that view. Indeed no one is even trying to make such a case.
Whilst I fully respect the wishes of those who vote for independence on faith alone, an assertion that small polities tend to have better outcomes is not a credible argument, particularly given that the current rationale for insisting on a second referendum to leave a Union of four nations is seek to join a Union of what would become twenty eight nations and growing.
I know and understand that those who are in favour of independence, regardless of consequence, are fed up hearing requests for information on currency, debt, deficit, lender of last resort, borders, trade, access to Channel ports…and that kind of stuff but surely some attempt must be made to at least address some of these issues if there is to be any hope of success?
Alf,
To argue that many No voters were simply non – Scottish colonisers and settlers is pitiful, pathetic and demeans the independence argument.
Arch Stanton,
you are right but you missed a word. Alf Baird’s attacks on “non scots” are racist. The sort of Racism you read in the Daily Mail every day. He used to post his poison on Bella where frankly too few called him out.
@Arch Stanton 9.00am
The fact is that the case for independence – or for that matter the case for remaining part of the UK – can never be watertight, or empirically proven either way. As any impartial observer outside the UK would quickly discern there are risks and advantages in taking either path. Nobody sane on the Yes side of the argument in 2012-14 was saying there were no risks. Both sides of the argument in the end have to convince a majority of voters that the risks of voting for them are outweighed by the perceived risks of voting for the other side.
For example, you may disagree with the point that smaller polities tend to be better governed and more successful, and of course it’s by no means guaranteed that Scotland would be transformed by independence into a Scandinavian style success, but there is considerable evidence out there to back it up. Unless you’re going to go “full yoon” and advance some variant of the “too wee, too poor, too stupid” trope, surely you can at least admit that as prospective independent countries go, Scotland is almost uniquely placed to make a success of it?
I heard many British nationalists during #indyref1 – both Scots and English – insist that we’d effectively be reduced to penury by independence, but what was the actual evidence? GERS figures? The asserted £”X” billion black hole in our finances? No country on earth which has gained independence has ever been expected to jump through the hoops and provide the cast iron guarantees of future success that were demanded of Scotland prior to 2014.
If you can honestly assert that you think Scots now, or in 5, 10 or 100 years time are definitely going to be better off staying in the union than if they’d voted Yes in 2014, then your pro British nationalist stance is really no different from those Scots nationalists you condemn for not producing a credible case for independence.
For what it’s worth, I thought the 2014 Yes campaign was pretty poor, and DID shy away from difficult questions. It did fudge the currency and economic aspects of the debate, and utterly failed in my view to tackle the negative campaigning of “Project Fear”: we never really laid a glove on that.
The concentration on being wafted to the sunny uplands of independence on waves of happy-clappy positivity worked up to a point, bu we can’t afford to use such a one track style again. We were effectively fighting with one hand tied behind our backs.
In any case, these are new times. Brexit has destroyed the “No” camp’s claims to economic competence for good. The economic costs and risks of brexit, and the apparent money tree available for Covid and the UK’s execrable performance in tackling the pandemic, support the view that the risks of the UK and opportunities of independence may deliver a pro-independence majority.
You personally may not like the EU, but the overwhelming majority of Scots want to rejoin. That may not happen as quickly as some like, but the “Leave” argument has to all intents and purposes been comprehensively lost in Scotland. The only question is how long Scotland takes to rejoin, and under what terms.
@Alf Baird 11.38pm
Blood and soil nationalism is not the answer. Your views on this are (thankfully) totally unrepresentative of the wider civic nationalist movement: you advance a fringe argument which has negligible support and even less chance of actually being enacted.
The union may be unequal, but it is NOT a colonial one. If the UN and international community accepted it as such, they would say so: they haven’t. It suits your skewed ideological purpose to mischaracterise our position as colonial, but vanishingly few folk are buying the sub “Siol nan Gaidheal” schtick.
Scotland, Quebec and Catalonia are – with good reason – regarded as being in a different category and situation from former imperial colonies, or e.g. from former Soviet and Yugoslav republics. Your quaint and ideologically flawed attempt to fit such square pegs in to round holes becomes no more convincing despite your dogged insistence on ramming them in.
You have no answers to the questions posed to you before about how any scheme to “nativise” the Scottish electorate would work, or how it would be received by Scottish voters. Luckily, it doesn’t really matter because nobody apart from the wilder fringes of the movement takes it remotely seriously.
Arch Stanton
Why don’t you take it up with McIntosh and the other post referendum researchers, who concluded that:
“Scotland only remained in the Union because of the views of those who were born in other parts of Britain and further afield” (McIntosh 2015).
You might think it pitiful, pathetic and demeaning, however it is well established that peoples in self-determination conflict are linguistically and culturally divided, our identity being defined by our language and culture. Why do you think the British state (including its Scottish ‘department’) continues to deprive Scots bairns fae lairnin thay’re ain braw langage in Scottis schuils, a human right denied, and against the continual recommendations of the Council of Europe minority language group? Removal of indigenous languages was/is of course a common theme in colonial policy.
You are aware of the extensive research relating to linguistic and cultural imperialism, as well as colonialism, I assume?
Andy Ellis
“The union may be unequal, but it is NOT a colonial one.”
You might want to have a good think about that one.
In any event the definition of colonialism seems relatively straightforward.
You still did not respond on the question that – if independence is not (“invariably”) decolonisation, then perhaps you might explain what you think independence is?
Surely there is still income coming in from the Weirs who “donated more than £6.4 million to party coffers, according to analysis by the Times” from their lottery win. A chunk of that must surely have been invested to secure a regular income for the cause?
“Surely there is still income coming in from the Weirs who “donated more than £6.4 million to party coffers, according to analysis by the Times” from their lottery win.”
Colin Weir is dead, and neither he nor Chris Weir has donated to the SNP since about 2017.
Sorry, that comment was meant for the invisible weaving article!
Alf,
No one is denying that those not born in Scotland, but who chose to live here as part of the benefits of being in both the UK and EU, would have been more likely to vote to remain in both of those Unions, but of course if we are to begin differentiating on the basis of who was born here and who was not, then the logical conclusion of that would be to include the votes of those you consider to be more authentically Scottish, but who have similarly benefitted from membership of the UK and EU by deciding to make their lives in parts of those Unions outside of Scotland.
The point I have been trying to make, without success it would seem, is that, like the author of the article, I am looking for a credible, or even incredible, case for independence which might satisfy those, like myself, who are inclined to require a little realism to accompany the emotion and at least some semblance of an idea what the negotiating position of a post Yes Scottish Government might be on important issues.
Do you know where I might find such a case for independence?
@Alf 10.59am
No, because your question makes no sense. Scotland, Quebec or Catalonia aren’t colonies. Not all instances of the desire for self determination are on the part of peoples who can reasonably be defined as such. You valiantly trying to mis-characterise aspects of “our” experience as evidence of us being in a colonial relationship within the UK are a category mistake. This is pretty basic stuff.
The existence of non-Scots born immigrants, and influence of the linguistic and cultural factors you refer to, or indeed to other economic and social factors, do not prove your thesis.
A self defining people which wants to assert its right of self determination from a larger unit has the right to do so. Not all peoples are in the same situation or category. The international community (and international law such as it is) treats these different categories in different ways. The inhabitants of Scotland, Quebec and Catalonia are not considered to have the automaticity of rights as those in clearly post-colonial relationships, or e.g. those subject to genocide or flagrant human rights abuses.
Peoples within advanced liberal democratic states are expected to exhaust all other legitimate means for exercising internal self determination before the international community will support their case and recognise them.
You making false equivalences between cases like Scotland and New Caledonia doesn’t advance what passes for your argument, it just exposes it for the whipped up confection of ideological hot air and “truthy” assertion it so obviously is.
@Arch Stanton 11.18am
Perhaps the case for independence you seek is kept in the same place as the positive case for the union bud?
We’ve been looking for that for decades, but nobody has ever been able to provide that either. 🙂
Seriously though, why does the current pro-independence movement have to provide chapter and verse in excruciating detail of what post-independence policies will be? That’s a matter for the governments elected after independence to decide, based on the circumstances operative when it happens, which we all know is likely to be a few years hence even on the most hopeful pro-indy timetable!
For that matter, what happened to the assurances we were given by “Better Together” in 2014?
Weren’t we assured the only way to stay in the EU was to vote “No”?
How’s that worked out?
For that matter, where’s the Home Rule we were promised in The Vow in 2014?
I understand that “soft No” voters need to be persuaded, but it seems odd that so many hold the independence movement to an unattainably high standard of proof and require absolute guarantees that “things can only get better”, while giving their own side a free pass to drive our economy over a brexit cliff, fail to deliver on the promises made in the Vow, and fail on a macro-economic level while treating the Scottish parliament with contempt, such as ignoring our pleas for a differential deal on the EU which they granted to Northern Ireland.
Strange that we seldom hear the voices of British nationalists in Scotland setting out their positive vision for devo-max, or control of everything but defence spending and foreign affairs for example. Why is that do you think? Is it lack of political courage or imagination, or just because they actually like the status quo or even want Holyrood shut down altogether?
I’m glad you’re one of the rational ones who is open to persuasion, but we all know there are many who aren’t. We also know that many who SAY they’re open to persuasion aren’t sincere, or are only willing to consider it on the basis of an impossibly detailed and unattainable “up front” guarantee of success that no independence movement could ever deliver.
I’d put more store in the word of such “soft No” voters if they’d established a devo-max movement, or converted the Tories, Labour or LDs in Scotland into truly independent Scottish parties pushing Westminster to deliver positive outcomes for Scottish people. Imagine if the Ruth Davidson party had given May an ultimatum that they’d only support her if she delivered full fiscal autonomy for Scotland and the same deal on the EU that was given to Northern Ireland.
The phrase “put up or shut up” springs to mind.
Thank you for your respectful response Andy. All I can say is that for as long as the response to a quest for a credible case for separation is confined to “where is te case for the Union” then you simply won’t win. I don’t believe anyone, myself included, is looking for “proof” it will work or exactly how it will work, but simply a starting position or even a clue to a starting position on any one of the issues which could make or break people’s lives and the lives of our children.
I’m sure you would not consider the author of this article to be a Unionist, yet here he is, rightly in my opinion, bemoaning the lack of a credible case for independence from the SNP, presumably because, as an insightful and intelligent commentator, he knows that without one, a referendum cannot be won.
Suffice to say, I agree with him!
@Arch 12.14pm
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely agree with Stu WRT the SNP too. I have zero faith in them delivering independence. I wasn’t really trying to engage in “whataboutery” about the respective cases for independence or the union either, just pointing out that there is a tendency (probably from both sides) to hold the other to standards they don’t meet themselves. Such is life and politics I suspect?
The problem is that just because the SNP is currently in a mess, doesn’t mean there isn’t a case for indy. I was (and remain) critical of the Charlotte Street partner inspired Growth Commission for example. I can see why the SNP felt it was a good idea, as they were totally convinced by the “don’t scare the horses” narrative after the No vote in 2014.
The movement as a whole was (again rightly in my view) criticised for it’s failures to address the currency issue and broader economic aspects of the independence settlement in the 2012-14 period. Sadly, I’d argue it hasn’t really done much to improve matters since. It’s had six years to put together alternatives, and to undermine the foundations of the “Project Fear” obsession with GERS figures, the asserted black hole, and our presumed inability to survive as an independent nation. This could and should have been handled better.
But…(and yes, it’s a big but!) the elephant in the room for British nationalism is the brexit decision. Neither you nor any other British nationalist can avoid the negative economic impacts of that decision. Even if you could however, or if you could somehow demonstrate in future that the net effect was economically neutral (which, grated, is difficult to demonstrate give we don’t know what would have happened if we’d voted Remain), the glaring fact is that the decision demonstrates very well that Scots and the English want very different things. In too many areas, the current system is peculiarly badly suited to address the differential treatment of such matters.
If there was any prospect of reform, or a workable federal system or “Full Home Rule”, there might be a future for the union. Evidence now suggests there is no workable plan, nor any appetite for the kind of necessary reform in England. Demographically, independence is becoming a racing certainty. I personally wish I didn’t have to wait for the younger generation to deliver it, when my generation and those older lacked the courage to do so.
Arch
“I am looking for a credible, or even incredible, case for independence”
The alternative of leaving Scotland entirely in the hands of England’s Tories should be a good enough reason for most Scots, as it was in 2014.
The younger generation will not be the younger generation for long and will soon be the workers, and parents, whose responsibilities force them to examine the issues pragmatically and logically, rather than through a cloud of emotional rhetoric.
I have personally suffered far more than most already from Brexit, but would confidently assert that, as things stand, any negative economic consequences of our regrettable departure from the EU will be as nothing compared to the economic consequences of leaving the UK. At least the UK already has the necessary, established institutions and machinery of state, which is exactly why some sort of plan or case has to be laid out to explain to people how an independent Scotland would function.
I genuinely wish you good luck but fear the case for independence I seek is more elusive than the Holy Grail and Indiana Jones I am not.
I’m off out on my bike now so have a good day!
Sorry Alf I just noticed your post.
If the result you are looking for is a similar one to 2014 then I am confident you will not be disappointed.
Have a good day.
Arch
The point I was making is that Scotland’s ‘No’ voters pro-actively support leaving Scotland entirely in the hands of England’s Tories, which implies that continued political and economic control over Scotland rests with another country. This as it happens is the definition of colonialism (i.e. “the control or governing influence of a nation over a dependent country, territory, or people”).
@Arch Stanton 1.03pm
It may be true that *some* of the current under 35’s will become more politically conservative (with a small “c” at least?) over time, but the majority shown in polling for younger generations suggests you’re barking up the wrong tree there. Evidence, not assertion.
Similarly, you can believe very earnestly that independence would be a greater economic dislocation than brexit, but in the end it’s just so much assertion. There is no evidence. As for your argument that the “established institutions and machinery” of the British nationalist state are an asset, rather than a liability, I doubt you’ll find many buyers for that hill of beans.
You keep banging on about a plan as though no country in the world had ever become independent in the past. How many of those had Scotland’s advantages Arch? It’s a bit of a stretch to imagine that a new Scottish state would cease to function, or be unable to establish itself: or do you think it’s Scots that are uniquely incapable of making a success of independence?
As is often the case with debating unionists, however much they claim to be open to persuasion, experience almost invariably demonstrates they just aren’t. Of course, more the small minority of more self aware unionist admit that Scotland would thrive as an independent nation: their case against independence doesn’t in the end rest on economics or questions of equality and social cohesion at all. At root their position is just as much a faith based position as that of many nationalists.
There is of course a place for belief and faith that your own preferred solution is superior to the alternatives. Just don’t try to pretend that there is no case for independence, or that reasons supporting it haven’t been advanced, dissected and debated in pretty minute detail. I’m not sure you could say the same of the positive case for the union, nor indeed whether the long terms damage caused by brexit will be greater or less than that which might attend Scottish independence.
I’ve already had my bike ride for the day. 12km down to Cramond and back. Now for a well deserved glass of that cheeky wee Rioja!
Enjoy your evening bud!
Morning Andy,
I replied to you in some detail yesterday evening but my response mysteriously disappeared, therefore I’ll keep it brief:
I’ve been trying for years to get someone, anyone, to provide the kind of credible plan or case for independence required to win a referendum and have yet to succeed. All of my nationalist friends, colleagues, acquaintances and others have, like yourself, simply asserted there is no need for such a case. Without a plan, you cannot win and it is as simple a# that, no matter that one might reduce the voting age to the late foetal stage to try and do so.
Nevertheless I wish you good luck.
Arch
Here’s a plan for maritime and to help double Scotland’s international trade under independence, linking to what several dozen former under-developed colonies were able to achieve once ‘free’ of London rule:
link to scotlandspeaks.com
I see another political prosecution is under way, standard fare in any colony of course.
@Arch Stanton 9.10am
Sorry you lost your post: it seems that unlike most Britnats you are at least open to respectful debate, but I don’t really *get* your obssessive insistence that there has to be a grand plan. From what I recall there was a document several hundred pages long produced by the Scottish Government before #indyref1, but not many unionists set much store by it! 🙂
The think is, many people (as Alf has done above in his specific area of expertise) could produce their plan on certain issues. In the end however, it really comes down to whether you accept or not that Scotland is capable of being a successful independent state. If your a priori position is that it can’t, then nothing I or anyone else can say will convince you otherwise. If your position is that you *might* be persuaded to support independence, BUT only on condition that success was guaranteed, then we’re entitled to dismiss you as a fantasist.
The success of a newly independent Scottish state depends on a multitude of factors: some of these are within our control, and some of them aren’t. Any detailed plan of what the CURRENT Scottish Government proposes to do in “x” years becomes almost instantly outdated, even if for the sake of argument we know #indyref2 was imminent, or we’d voted Yes and knew independence was happening next month.
The economic outcomes post-indy depends on what settlement we reach on debt with rump-UK, what taxes a future Scottish state decideds to raise (or indeed lower), how much we spend on different areas and what savings might be made in some (like defence where it’s hardly credible we’d spend the £4billion a year we currently contribute to UK Defence Budget).
However, any objective economist would look at prospects and say that there’s no reason Scotland couldn’t perform just as well as many other small independent countries, and probably better than many. The example of Ireland since it left the UK is instructive: from a relative poor, chiefly agrarian society heavily dependant on trade with the UK, it has now surpassed the UK – and particularly Northern Ireland which used to be relatively much richer than the Republic – and yet Ireland has in many respects much less going for it in terms of resources and industrial infrastructure than Scotland.
Arguing with those who demand a sdetailed slam-dunk plan is in the end like arguing with GERS obsessives: you never get anywhere because they are absolutely convinced by their a priori assumptions that post independence Scotland would an economic basket case, Zimbabwe without the sun etc, etc. Simultaneously, they expect us to ignore the current state of the UK as a polity and an economy on the basis of what….? That it’s always and invariably been a success? That there aren’t alternatives?
If 300 years of the union has been such a great thing, why do we still have the levels of poverty we do? Why isn’t Scotland more like Denmark or Norway? How does a country that has produced so much oil have no sovereign wealth fund and hundreds of food banks? Where were all the calls for detailed plans to tackle issues like that?
We’ll be waiting some time for the positive case for remaining in the union I suspect, but it does seem passing strange that only one side is ever required to produce evidence, and routinely attacked for asserting rather than proving.
What’s sauce for the goose and all that: where’s the positive plan to persuade the roughly 50% of Scots who now support independence to stick with the union Arch?