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Wings Over Scotland

The arrival of the wolf

Posted on May 06, 2020 by

This site used to have a running joke about the number of times the Scottish media screamed “SNP CIVIL WAR!” whenever any two people in the party – one of whom would invariably be either Jim Sillars or Gordon Wilson – disagreed with each other about whether you should put the milk or the boiling water in a cup of tea first.

Well, here’s what a real one looks like.

Poll respondents generally don’t like answering “Yes” to questions about conspiracies – especially if you use the word directly – because the political and media world uses “conspiracy theorist” as a synonym for “tinfoil-hatted nutcase”.

(This, of course, is done to make it easier to get away with conspiracies. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist, as they say.)

Yet even when the SNP are polling at more than 50% and look set for another absolute majority at next year’s Holyrood election, barely over a quarter of the party’s own voters were prepared to reject the idea that its senior figures were involved in a major criminal conspiracy to jail its most famous former leader and the ex-First Minister.

Of the SNP voters who expressed an opinion either way, a narrow majority (51-49) believed there HAD been a conspiracy to frame Alex Salmond on false charges which would have seen him imprisoned for quite possibly the rest of his life.

Let’s just take a moment to contemplate the magnitude of those findings.

More than 70% of SNP voters either definitely believe that the party tried to fit up Alex Salmond or consider it a real possibility. And yet they’re still planning to give the SNP another landslide election victory exactly one year from today. If there’s ever been a more savage indictment of a group of opposition parties anywhere in world politics, we’re struggling to bring it to mind.

It’s perhaps quite surprising that the numbers for the whole poll were lower. You’d think Unionists would be infinitely keener to suggest major criminal wrongdoing by the SNP leadership, but it’s one of the more curious phenomena in Scottish politics that the opposition and media have bizarrely become almost protective of Nicola Sturgeon in recent months, almost as if they regarded her as the Union’s safest option at a time when Labour and the Tories are both far too shambolic to mount any sort of serious challenge for the residency of Bute House.

Nevertheless, a figure of 21% still extrapolates to over a MILLION Scots who definitely think Alex Salmond was a victim of conspiracy, and another two million who think he might have been, despite the fact that the idea has been relentlessly and uniformly rubbished, derided, mocked and bitterly attacked by a whole string of columnists and commentators since the day of the verdict.

Yes voters were more than twice as likely to believe there’d been a conspiracy – and remember that we’re talking specifically here about an SNP and Scottish Government conspiracy, not a UK government one – than No voters:

And there was a large gap between Lib Dem voters and those of the other Unionist parties, with Labour and Tory supporters both more than twice as inclined to think there’d been a stitch-up.

Men were unsurprisingly more likely to believe in the conspiracy than women, but by a smaller margin than you might expect – the numbers willing to definitely rule it out were almost identical (39% of men, 38% of women), but women were less ready to convert uncertainty into a yes.

And strangely, while there was little difference among women by age, the youngest group was by a noticeable distance the least prepared to rule out the possibility of a conspiracy, with an outright majority declaring themselves unsure.

It’ll be very interesting to see what a Scottish media deeply committed to attacking Alex Salmond and rubbishing the idea of a criminal collusion against him makes of the fact that more than two-thirds of Scots think he either was, or might well have been, the victim of a failed fit-up from the very top of the SNP.

There’s normally nothing they love more than to cry wolf about an imaginary schism in Scotland’s party of government and the Yes movement in general. Let’s see how many column inches they devote now there really is one running amok in the flock.

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  1. 06 05 20 12:57

    The arrival of the wolf | speymouth

  2. 17 08 20 22:44

    The endless trial –

253 to “The arrival of the wolf”

  1. Muscleguy says:

    I know twitter is a tiny minority of people but surely the number of folk resigning their membership and cancelling fees and donations should be giving the party pause for thought? They manage their smaller warchests during elections by relying on activists to hand deliver leaflets. What it they held an election and nobody helped?

    In the general election after the IndyRef I volunteered to help get the vote our locally on polling day. I would not do that again even though I still like our MP.

    Will they have enough activists to run a campaign? or will they all be Uber Woke Crew who will antagonise voters?

  2. MikeW says:

    I think the lack of any other Indy party to vote for (greens are not an Indy first party) is why they will still get support for Scottish elections. Role on the creation of a credible other Indy party to vote for.

  3. Ian McCubbin says:

    I feel SNP won’t survive intact the fall out.
    If it wants to those women need to be suspended from the party until Alex investigation is completed.
    They have broken party constitution rules period

  4. MikeW says:

    should say done so Indy vote is not split too much…such as list only and maybe certain candidates.

  5. Republicofscotland says:

    Of course if there was another indy party folk might jump onto it, the Greens just don’t seem to be inspirational though you never know. Ergo folk who want independence will again vote for Sturgeon, even if its a flawed move.

    I’m a conspiracy (tinfoiled hat nut) cynical to the end, in my opinion unionist parties in Scotland see Sturgeon as a safe bet in keeping the status quo, in that she’ll not vigorously pursue a second indyref, but she’ll still make all the right noises on doing so.

    I think the established knows Sturgeon has been rumbled and thats why she’s getting plenty of airtime from the unionist media, in an (looks like successful) attempt to further cement her position as a trustworthy leader that will equate to votes next year.

    If no new party is forthcoming next year, then I don’t see anything significant happening with regards to independence. Unless Salmonds book has such an impact that there are calls for the removal of some, if not all of those within the SNP that are blocking independence.

  6. Merkin Scot says:

    The results don’t surprise me.
    Still, I know of a number of otherwise pretty savvy independence supporters who have bought into the ‘no-smoke’ narrative.
    One had the temerity to say to me, something like, “do you think we women sit around all day working out how to frame an innocent guys”( I won’t them identify by posting the original), but that is exactly what happened to AS.

  7. susan says:

    I believe it was a fit up and I believe an Indy party needs setting up, at least for the List vote, though some sitting MSPs could do with deselecting.

  8. BLMac says:

    That there was no conspiracy is as likely as Willie MacRae managing to shoot himself twice in the head and then throw the gun 50 metres away…

    The disturbing thing is the likely collusion of the Scottish govt with dark forces at Westminster.

    However I’ll still vote SNP while holding my nose because there is no other choice (and if there were it would dilute the vote and we’d all lose).

  9. Bibbit says:

    As Wings mentions, the fact that the SNP appear to be ‘holding their own’ in some polls, is not so much a reflection on how well the SNP is performing, but on the quality of the other parties, both in Scotland and also, during the Covid 19 Crisis, the UK Govt’s criminal negligence.

    If there is no other indy party to vote for come Holyrood 2021, I will vote SNP again, otherwise we let the rats into the henhouse. I’d not vote ‘Green’ , due to their woke-misogyny but the YES movement needs a spark to light the fire to hold the SNP feet within.

    The SNP MPs have settled for 5 years earning: £81K basic salary, plus the equal of their basic salary in ‘expenses’, plus if they get a seat on a Committee, another £15k, plus a bung of yet another £10K to ‘work from home’ (pair sowels) during Covid 19.

    Now if Scotland was indy tomorrow all that secured for 5 years income pops like a bubble, although they would still keep lucrative pensions.

    So how many have settled down instead of settling up. I’d certainly vote for any party whose policy is not based on its own self-interest but on disruption and point blank refusal to leave the EU. Never forget thousands of Scots have died whilst the SNP have dillied and dallied. Shame on them all.

  10. defo says:

    Can you hear squeaking?

  11. Bryan Weir says:

    Not quite so shocking when you consider that the Tories pandemic failures have caused many thousands of unnecessary deaths. The whole country knows this yet they are still miles ahead of Labour in the polls.

  12. Dave Beveridge says:

    The blood-letting has to happen ASAP to get it out of the way well before the next Holyrood elections (and I’m well aware of the wee distraction at the moment).

    I don’t really see any point in voting to put someone back into power who’s just going to “scweam and scweam until Boris gives me a Section 30 order.” I see what’s in it for her though.

    The things I’ve been called on Facebook for daring to question Nicola’s deification. 🙁

  13. SilverDarling says:

    What I don’t understand is Wishart and co just blithely ignoring anyone on social media who speaks out. It’s as if they think there are so many other people out there that will fill the void. It beggars belief that apart from Joanna Cherry and Kenny MacAskill no other MPs have even mentioned Alex Salmond. The cowardice would make you sick but that is the calibre of politician that is attracted to the SNP machine.

    The activists on Twitter overlap with the activists on the ground – they are not two entirely separate groups. Is Wishart suggesting they won’t use social media in their campaigns from now on as it isn’t the real world? Do they imagine the people who would vote SNP because they are just better than the opposition are going to go out and campaign in the absence of loyal foot soldiers who have now had enough?

    Focussing on the recent favourable SNP polling is so reminiscent of SLab – there is no viable alternative yet so of course they are polling high. If you base your choice on how Nicola Sturgeon comes across versus Boris Johnson then she and the SNP look better but an election as we know is never just one issue in Scotland. I bet you anything the SNP will base their election strategy on repairing Scotland, stability and continuity with no mention of constitutional change.

    Independence is at 50-50 with the SNP in charge so something has to change. The idea that it will just grow denies the reality of what we are living through just now.

    Anyway just look at the Tory polling down south if we apply Wishart’s logic the Tories are going nowhere for the next 10 years which appears to suit him just fine.

  14. Helen Yates says:

    It’s strange the amount of SNP and Indy supporters I have spoken to about this case and I’d say half of them believed he’d been set up yet every unionists I spoke to and even some who approached me told they never for a min believed the charges brought against Salmond, I honestly haven’t met a unionist who believes he was guilty. I do find that quite staggering.

  15. Mike K says:

    Like many other indy supporting Scots I’ll still vote SNP.
    At the moment there is no alternative.

    Until a list party, for example, comes along.

  16. Capella says:

    Dani Garavelli has already rubbished the idea that there are “dark forces” (Kenny McAskill’s term) trying to destroy Alex Salmond. So there you are. The media have spoken, with one voice as usual.

    I have no doubt that there is a conspiracy to destroy the SNP, Alex Salmond, Craig Murray the YES movement in general and Nicola Sturgeon. They have lost the first round, the Alex Salmond trial.
    The coronavirus pandemic has stalled the next round, getting rid of Nicola Sturgeon by April.

    Just make sure that they lose the third round, getting rid of WoS and Craig Murray.

  17. winifred mccartney says:

    I believe there are some at the top of the snp who are out to destroy the party and they have infiltrated so high up they think they are immune. I do think that NS had any choice but to have an investigation – can you imagine the press if she had tried to ignore the clamour – she was damned if she did and damned if she didn’t. I wonder if it is the same group that are promoting GRA with the view that if we don’t damage the snp one way we will try another. This is the yoon way use sex, money, or smears/lies to damage and destroy – they have successfully used these methods from time immemorial – we cannot allow them to succeed.

  18. winifred mccartney says:

    sorry above should read NS had no choice but to have an investigation

  19. Frazerio says:

    Of all the eye opening stuff emerging during the Salmond case, one thing that really stuck with me that seems to have been largely forgotten since, was when one of his accusers, who wanted to be nominated as a SNP parliamentary candidate, agreed with the description that she was a “soft supporter of independence”. The first, last and only question that party should be asking is, are you pro-indy.

  20. Alex says:

    And for that other elephant in the room.

    How many of the current SNP leadership have received some sort of financial/other encouragement to shelve independence?

    Are those Tory donors and right wing supremacists spreading their filthy lucre a little further afield these days?

  21. SilverDarling says:

    Also if there was ever a time to go for constitutional change it is now. The Tories could be allowed to make it look like they were protecting England which is what their base down south wants. The time to strike is when your enemy is in turmoil and confusion.

    A good politician could do that. If they really really wanted Independence. I would vote for Alex Salmond in a heartbeat but jeez is it fair to ask him to take it on? Everything I know about him says he would do it, whatever it takes personally and professionally – he has never backed down. That is what we need more than ever.

    The new normal could be Independence.

  22. Dave Beveridge says:

    Frazerio says:
    6 May, 2020 at 11:29 am

    …when one of his accusers, who wanted to be nominated as a SNP parliamentary candidate, agreed with the description that she was a “soft supporter of independence”.

    They’ve morphed into New Labour, attracting careerists and opportunists. There needs to be a full-scale clear-out of the infiltrators from the top down otherwise a real independence party is the only alternative.

    Sadly I can see the Yes camp getting split right down the middle over this whole thing – those who think the sun shines out of Nicola’s arse and the others who see the Empress has no clothes.

  23. Stuart MacKay says:

    Sooner or later the dichotomy that the SNP is both a movement for independence and a party in government will have to resolve itself. Strictly speaking, the former disappears as soon as independence is achieved while the latter wants to sustain itself so it can exist post-independence and continue to pursue progressive policies.

    The whole problem is that it can’t be both at the same time.

    The solution is to have a selection of parties all working towards independence. Only then can you have a constancy of vision and purpose pre and post independence. The hard part is getting to that point without derailing the entire operation.

    The current antagonistic approach is not a good basis, no matter how much it is needed.

    Any thoughts on how to make this win-win instead of win-lose?

  24. susan says:

    I agree totally @Frazerio

  25. liz says:

    This is why we need another indy party for list votes or a new leader.
    If NS steps down she will try everything to prevent Joanna Cherry from becoming FM IMO.

  26. Graeme says:

    Frazerio says:
    6 May, 2020 at 11:29 am

    Of all the eye opening stuff emerging during the Salmond case, one thing that really stuck with me that seems to have been largely forgotten since, was when one of his accusers, who wanted to be nominated as a SNP parliamentary candidate, agreed with the description that she was a “soft supporter of independence”. The first, last and only question that party should be asking is, are you pro-indy.


    100% agree.

    Of everything that has come out of that trial that’s the thing that got to me most because it begs the question how many other SNP MP’s & MSP’s are soft on independence.

  27. Breeks says:

    Capella says:
    6 May, 2020 at 11:25 am
    Dani Garavelli has already rubbished the idea that there are “dark forces” (Kenny McAskill’s term) trying to destroy Alex Salmond. So there you are. The media have spoken, with one voice as usual.

    There was an SNP Student somebody (I forget his name) writing in either the Herald or Hootsman, slagging off Kenny McAskill’s article about dark forces, calling McAskill Alex Salmond’s “pal”. So you don’t even have to look as far as the media for wokist anti Salmond bile and disinformation.

    What a fkg mess Sturgeon is presiding over, and it beggars belief that she isn’t fully aware of it.

    Come ahead with your book Mr Salmond. Get these indolent turncoats booted out.

    “Oh but we need a majority in 2021!”

    Do ye aye? To do what exactly? Sit on your arses twiddling you’re thumbs for another session? Need another mandate? I’ll take my chance with the rebels and Constitutionalists. At least they’ve some fire in their bellies and credible objectives that can be delivered, and will bring the Union to it’s knees.

  28. Teetering says:

    Well I was convener of my CA and I think there was a stitch up by party management.

  29. Doug says:

    Time for my martyr moment:

    NS has a good [in the political response sense] health crisis. People in Scotland applaud her for it. Before AS goes public NS resigns gracefully and with dignity [the martyr bit].

    SNP/Yes support stays solid. Someone like Joanna Cherry becomes leader with AS back as advisor. Pro-indy politicians become more radical in approach to independence. Yes movement back in full campaign mode. Holyrood election de facto referendum.

  30. Colin Alexander says:

    What would be the purpose of a new party?

    Taking list seats away from Tories, LibDems, Labour and Greens? (So what?)

    Or helping Scotland to achieve indy?

    Is it about putting pressure on the SNP to go back to being an indy party?

    If the SNP can win a majority with almost none or no List seats, there will be no pressure on the SNP from a pro-indy List party.

    In that scenario a List indy party serves no real purpose, except replacing waste of space Unionist seat warmers with pro-indy seat warmers in a mickey mouse parliament who can achieve nothing except drain the indy movement of talent and money.

    For as Alex Salmond admitted before he went devo-first / indy second as the SNP’s reasons for existence: Holyrood is “a glorified parish council”.

    So to be fair to Sturgeon, she just went a step further: Devo-first / making the Union as good as possible for Scotland in the UK / No indy at all.

  31. robertknight says:

    I have an Orwellian vision of the SNP leadership as having pig’s heads but wearing clothes, walking on two legs and smoking cigars while the rest of us look through the window wondering WTF happened to OUR party.

    In its current form, I cannot bring myself to vote for them. If there is no alternative then, despite the obvious risks, I’ll draw an additional box on the ballot paper, next to which I’ll write the words “Independence Party”, and my X will be placed there. Hopefully it’ll feed back to those at the count and the candidate(s) concerned.

    An SNP which is victorious next year will not change. A period in opposition and a clear out at the top might not be such a bad thing for the wider Indy movement, which lets face it is well and truly in the Doldrums.

  32. SilverDarling says:

    Frazerio and Graeme

    Totally agree. It also answers the question as to why the woman was not backed as a candidate by Alex Salmond.

    There are quite a few on social media saying they believe other things are far more important. Most of the SNP Youth by the looks of it and also those who have recently graduated from it. Their mentor was who? Stirling seems to feature prominently as I see it at a HoC level, Twitter level and activist level. Hmmm…

  33. Dog biscuit says:

    Capella making no sense re Sturgeon. For a fixed Star you’re quite all over the place. Is Nicola Sturgeon blameless? For me there are serious concers over freedom and individual liberties and this Hate Bill. Jesus Christ more like the Shut it You Bill. It will be very hard perhaps impossible for me to vote for fascists. Im sorry but we all have an opinion. And any Government that is willing to deprive us of human rights and freedom is not getting my vote.As you know a Scots vote is worth less than toilet paper in Westminster and SNP ineffective except when it comes to voting through on the nod draconian legislation that seems too co-ordinated across the world for my liking.

  34. Dog biscuit says:

    The ANP are not getting my Holyrood vote either. Hollyrood to locals who actually live in Edinburgh.

  35. Dog biscuit says:

    The SNP are not getting my Holyrood vote either. Hollyrood to locals who actually live in Edinburgh.

  36. Dog biscuit says:

    Twice in case you didnt hear me .

  37. Allan Watson says:

    Doug @12:02

    Agree 100%. Don’t think NS will be the leader at the next election, too much damage done to the party over the AS trial. I think she will stand down in time for a new leader to take over prior to the next election

  38. Mike d says:

    Along with all the other Mike’s on here we’ll be getting called the ‘alphabet brothers’ . I live in England so cant vote in Scotland,( I dont bother voting down here) if I could I’d certainly be in a quandary. I think Scotland desperately needs another indy party.

  39. MaggieC says:

    Of course it was a set up to get Alex to get out of Scottish Politics after he announced in 2018 that he was ready to get involved in a 2nd Indy ref –

    And then suddenly all these charges against him suddenly appeared which had supposedly taken place between 2008 to 2014 but they weren’t brought up before the 1st Indy ref , only after a new procedure was suddenly set by supposedly “Scottish Civil Servants” and I use that term very loosely to investigate sexual complaints and the way they investigated Alex stinks as he won his civil case against Scottish Gov .

    On the day it was announced he was going to be charged with the sexual assaults I did not believe one word of the charges against Alex and everyone I know did not believe them either and I have been an Snp voter for 40 plus years and have believed in Scottish Independence all my life .
    I would definitely vote for another Indy list party and it will take me a lot to vote for the Snp again in the constituency if they don’t put Independence at the top of their manifesto in 2021 .

    I look forward to Alex’s book being published and I hope it exposes the corruption against him by Scottish Gov civil servants and the Snp party officials , members and the “hanger ons” who were involved in the conspiracy against him and the whole lot of them are cleared out and they get back to being a party whose whole aim is to get Independence for Scotland .

    I would also like to thank Stuart and all who believed in Alex’s innocence in all of this stitch up and I wish Alex well in the future whatever he decides to do .

  40. shug says:

    I wonder who leaked the meeting of Neil Ferguson and his girl friend to the press (the Telegraph)

    Who wants rid of him and why

    Why have conservative MPs visiting their second and third homes not been dismissed or resigned

  41. Peter Brunskill says:

    Slight massaging of the figures there. ‘Barely over a quarter’ rejected the conspiracy theory when 38% stated ‘No’, which is actually way more than a third. . The ‘More than 70%’ who didn’t discount a fit up included over 40% ‘don’t know’ votes. And the 51-49 conspiracy majority was from those who expressed a view, ignoring those who, like me, are unable to make an informed decision either way due to lack of information.

    The problem with conspiracies is that they thrive in an information vacuum. I’m prepared to believe that there was a conspiracy (and Scottish rather than Westminster led, but hope there is a genuine explanation for the nonsense of the last 2 years.

    What really needs to happen is for all the information to be out in the open for full scrutiny, otherwise we end up in this knowledge-less state.

    Finally I’m not sure it was a worthwhile poll for Wings to conduct.

  42. Muscleguy says:

    In this polling Rev did you canvass about the forming of a Wings party or similar?

  43. Pete says:

    One of the stats which made me sit up is that the pandemic has caused the death of 19 Scots under the age of 45.
    So, in effect, we have been ruining the life chances of millions of people for that.
    Absolutely crazy!

  44. Colin Alexander says:

    I want a party whose elected members will swear / give an oath of allegiance to the people of Scotland as their sovereign, so who must refuse to swear allegiance to the United Kingdom’s Empress.

    That means they will be barred from serving in the UK Imperial or Scotland’s colonial parliament.

    I want a party whose goal is a parliament representing and exercising the sovereignty of Scotland’s people.

    So, I see no reason for yet another party whose members swear allegiance to Empress Elizabeth and who help administer the Empire’s Scotland colony in a subservient branch office of Westminster.

  45. Sharny Dubs says:

    Is the state of Scottish politics constipating and making the bottom fall out of your world?

    Take “Wingslax” and let the world fall out of your bottom!!

    Vote SNP at the next election and watch the independence movement be sidetracked for another term while you vote away your freedoms in a wave of hate speech and GRA madness?

    It’s a new Independence Party (or a new SNP) or regretfully a spoiled ballot paper for me.

    Over to you guys, AS et all.

  46. Zen Broon says:

    Meaningless. As we know from endless surveys, people may have an opinion – maybe a strongly held one – but don’t prioritise it much when making voting decisions. An obvious example is that the public often espouse left-wing opinions (on the NHS, nationalisation, tax etc) then vote for parties that do exactly the opposite.

  47. Doug says:

    SNP MPs in Westminster must either disrupt or depart.

  48. Doug says:

    Update on The Scottish People Vs The UK Government on Indyref2

    This morning it feels like waking with a substantive weight on one’s shoulders. Our reasonable offer to sist (pause) the action against the UK Gov on Indyref2, in light of COVID 19 disruption, has been met with humming and hawing after a month and on that basis, a few minutes ago, after a discussion with counsel, the motion to sist is being dropped and the case will now proceed.

    Parties including the UK and Scottish Governments will have 7 days to lodge appropriate representations to the court and from this point on the timetable will be decided by the court of session. It is expected there will be a standard 8 week period in which procedural matters will be dealt with from that point.

    What that timetable will be, we are unsure, but we are committed to working co-operatively with the court to assist it in any manner that we can to ease its burden during these difficult times.

    That being said, even though there is a pandemic, the political world keeps on turning, nothing highlights the point more eloquently than the fact the UK Government continues its devastating charge towards Brexit.

    The constitutional future of the people of Scotland is not a zero-sum game. Matters of continuing constitutional paralysis and general hardship for Scotland cannot be overridden, painted over and put aside because of temporary setbacks.

    If anything, the rule of law, the interpretation and the refinement of the understanding of law, is vitally important in a time where we face unprecedented curtailment of civil liberties.

    n this case, the response of Westminster during this pandemic has actually been a deciding factor here. Comments from politicians over easing lockdown in a manner that is not conducive to the safety and wellbeing of the people of Scotland, for nothing more than political expedience, have cut through and clarified the position. A fake veneer of “unity” at all costs is not a valid reason for undermining the safety and wellbeing of our citizens here in Scotland and certainly not for unreasonably risking deaths from ending lockdown early.

    When a politician utters words like “The whole of the UK should leave lockdown together” when the evidence shows us that doing so would be disastrous, and such comments are born out of nothing more than politicians in London trying to score political points against the Government in Scotland, that shows a level of thinking informed by malice of forethought and so it brings us back to a simple truth.

    If anything, the comments of Alistair Jack and Michael Gove have given clarity to the overall position we find ourselves in.

    If the Scottish Government and its parliament are to protect the people of Scotland in health, economics, social justice and everything in between, then all of the levers and all of the powers to enable them must be held in a parliament which understands Scotland. Holyrood!

    So irrespective of the optics, the balance must fall towards what happens in the future to protect people in Scotland and who is best placed to marshall talents and resources of the Scottish people in overcoming future challenges.

    The UK Government has shown itself to be incapable of doing so, and so we must, regardless of potential political optics, put aside ambiguity in favour of constitutional clarity and ask the court to exercise its primary function and interpret the law.

    With all of this in mind, (and understand how cognisant of the current situation I am) instructions were given to counsel this morning to formally drop the sist and move forward. Further updates to follow in the coming weeks.

    Martin Keatings Convener Forward as One

  49. Scozzie says:

    I’m baffled that any SNP voters who have followed the Alex Salmond case could see it as anything other than a conspiracy.

    These allegations didn’t arise organically, it was a fishing expedition to build a case, internally within the SNP and then by Police Scotland. At what point during the 400 police interviews do the police think – is there really a case to to send to the CP here?
    I honestly question – if this was just normal Joe Soap would this have even reached the CP let alone a court?

    One the 50:50 independence poll result – I think that suits the SNP just fine and dandy. They would be absolutely bricking it, if it was scoring the magical 60% they trout out as the number they need.

    50% independence support lets them off the hook – why else do you think they’ve never wanted to launch a campaign? They would be spooked if the number rose.
    Expect the following at HR 2021:
    We can’t push ahead on independence as we still have more people to convince.
    We can’t push ahead on independence on a post pandemic world.
    Vote for us and we’ll prepare the next case for independence.
    Vote for us and we’ll deliver indyref2 (we promise this time, honest).
    Vote for us and we’ll get the best possible outcome for a Brexited Scotland.
    Vote for us as we’ll protect Scottish services from Tory austerity.

    Same old pattern, same old pish.

  50. MaggieC says:

    Doug @ 1.13 pm . Well said , Agreed they’re got too comfy on those green benches and there should have been a few more walk outs when they’re being ignored and when their questions are unanswered . They should be raising Points of Order and causing disruption every day .

  51. Dog biscuit says:

    You are still enthralled by a virus that has a 95% recovery rate. So it stymies your political thinking.Thats for anyone who isnt scrolling by.

  52. Fireproofjim says:

    Stuart MacKay, 11.52
    I agree with your analysis. The SNP is currently trying to be a government for the whole country as well as being the leader of the Independence movement, with some unavoidable contradictions in those roles.
    With independence the need for the present structure of the SNP disappears and there will be a number of talented politicians from the Westminster SNP benches looking for a chance to use their expertise in Scotland. A chance to get rid of the “soft independence” supporters and the ultra-woke. Perhaps also a new name after Independence.
    Immediately, the best way to a win-win situation would be for a “clear the air” meeting between Nicola and Alex, (both of whom have large numbers of die hard supporters and many who support both). Starting from the current 50% Yes polls, such an alliance would make independence a certainty. Time for pride to be swallowed and antagonists to stand together in the great cause.
    As Churchill said when the Soviet Union was forced into the war, “If Hitler invaded Hell I would at least make a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons”.

  53. Mialuci says:

    I have spent decades voting for independence, I have seen it all before in different political parties, Life never really changes as far as people are concerned.
    Just because a person has made politics their career choice does not make them perfect human beings, in order to be able to vote at all, you have to do as I do, Ignore the flaws they have and vote for the cause, and the cause is first and foremost political freedom for Scotland.
    Anyone who cannot vote for that freedom, and I don’t care what the reasoning behind it is, as far as I am concerned you are letting your country down, I have never faltered and I never will, an independently minded person has to vote because every time we put our little X on that paper this unequal union will come closer to its end, and that is after all, what we all want.

  54. Polly says:

    I second Robert Knight’s view that a period out of office for the SNP would be no bad thing. Might bring them to their senses on many issues and restructuring, new leadership and a realisation they’re not invincible and we’re not mugs might do all of us supporting independence the world of good. Who knows but a period of having a Tory administration in Holyrood as well as Westminster might shock Scotland enough to bring about the long hoped for but sadly evasive switch in support amongst unionist ranks?

    I voted for them the last twice with a feeling of sickness in my stomach and it brought pain to my head and that feeling continued for weeks after. If I go on feeling forced to vote for a party which is now behaving in ways I find reprehensible as the only choice since I want independence then who knows what bodily organ it may affect next or how long the duration? I may even end up trans, after all if you can’t beat them, join them. Infiltrate from within and bring down – it’s what they’ve done to the SNP. At the least I will feel I have lost my integrity in voting for a party which I feel has itself lost its integrity.

    That Nicola Sturgeon, whom I once admired immensely for her probity, fairness and political acumen could have led a party in which discipline has completely disintegrated, arrogant boasting of poll numbers to unhappy members is condoned, where youth members show lack of respect to senior MPs and spite and hatred to women, share ageist jokes at the expense of activists, members and voters of long years standing, where the most dedicated former members, and former leader, ( I remember the ‘thanks boss, for everything’ public letter) could be sidelined and allowed to be vilified by present day activists, where she responds favourably to a small group while ignoring everyone else in the party, where that small group are publicly supported and exempt from any criticism while for the out group minute infractions lead to scurrilous criticism and ostracism with no prospect of redemption, that SHE could have presided over such a fall from grace in a party which never before claimed any special degree of whiteness in the colour of its soul, it just beggars belief. That I previously admired her causes that feeling of bile in my stomach. I’ve tried writing to her to complain three times now, as I once did when so annoyed by Tony Blair in 2002. At least with him I managed to get everything I wished to say on four sheets of paper but with her I gave up the first time when I got to eight, and as time has gone on the sheet number has only increased. I gave up not only because from other people’s reports I won’t get a response (which I did from Blair) but because I’ll be in danger of writing a book myself before long and the postage will kill my savings.

    Alex Salmond is wrong to delay and write a book. Corona virus or not he should be writing his criticisms in detail about things generally, and his side of things which led to the trial particularly, now and give interviews nationally and internationally. Delaying and then a tell all book isn’t the way. He’ll be accused of milking things to make money or stoke his ego with another book, as he was of the last. Also delaying beyond the end of lockdown, or even until then has allowed all the vitriol, a word so beloved of our wokerati probably because they’re steeped in it, to continue bubbling. Delaying a bloodletting is never a good idea, best get it over with and lance a boil. Besides, might save me writing a book of complaint and ending up steeped in bile myself.

  55. Dog biscuit says:

    Peter Brunskill you should follow political developements as the rest of us well, most of us do.

  56. Dog biscuit says:

    Carefull Polly Capella will smear you as a Unionist.

  57. A2 says:

    ““Independence Party”, and my X will be placed there. Hopefully it’ll feed back to those at the count and the candidate(s) concerned.”

    sigh…, like all spoilt papers, it’ll go in the pile of spoilt papers and no-one will ever look at it. You’ll feel great in the knowledge someone might pay attention though.

  58. Dog biscuit says:

    ‘The great cause’Ah the great cause .Is that the rush of demand for liberty, freedom of politcal and friendly association in order to resume campaigning for Independence? How ?

  59. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Fireproofjim says:

    “such an alliance would make independence a certainty. Time for pride to be swallowed and antagonists to stand together in the great cause”

    I think it is a good sign that Alex Salmond, Jim Sillars and Kenny McCaskill are all speaking to each other at the same time.

    – Would Nicola Sturgeon be permitted join that conversation? – would there be an entrance fee? – Would she be willing to pay it? – Would they be prepared to make any concessions in order to get her on board?

    Will clashes of Egos be the deciding factor as to whether Scotland is free by 20-03 or not?

    Maybe Rev Stu knows, or can find out.

  60. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    I wish Mr Salmonds book/ civil action was out in the open so we all know where we are.

    We cannot vote for Labour useless troughers, can’t vote for the evil Tories.

    Kind of leaves the SNP out in front.

    More needs to be done by them on the independence front.

    Was there a set up? I don’t know but I’m sure I can smell shite.

  61. Mialuci says:

    Many years ago I wrote a strongly worded letter of complaint to my labour member of parliament, he sent me a lovely little letter back with his comments included.
    I read his letter and I came to the only conclusion that was possible, the only good thing that came out of the two letters was the fact that the post office sold a couple of stamps lol

  62. Colin Alexander says:

    The UK Govt and EU negotiated a deal that treats the people of N.I. differently / preferentially to Scotland.

    Clear discrimination in violation of EU Law which includes European Human Rights law and international law

    Is nobody going to raise a case under EU Law which would ultimately be referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) ?

    Only a few months left.

    The records show Sturgeon told the EU she accepts the Irish Backstop deal, so don’t look to the SNP to defend Scotland.

  63. Colin Alexander says:

    Of course there is the issue of respecting the Good Friday Agreement / peace agreement in N.I.

    Scotland wouldn’t be asking for N.I. to have its special deal removed, but that Scotland receives similar terms eg. De facto EU Single Market membership and ongoing alignment with EU Law.

    No takers?

    No, didn’t think so.

  64. Dog biscuit says:

    CBB I think I may have done this before but I ofer you my apologies for being an asshole and not for the first time .I extend this apology to all Wingers I have offended.

  65. Ian Brotherhood says:

    The Swiss Propaganda Research site has been updated.

    It would be nice if anyone responding to this could address the material it contains rather than instantly start booting the messenger’s baws.

    Thanks in advance.


  66. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gosh. 🙂

  67. Sinky says:

    O/T Ian Union Jacket Murray claiming more care home deaths in Scotland than England.

    Most of these occurred in privately run homes and for example the one in Skye failed its most recent inspection on cleanliness etc while owner earned millions and is a Labour donor.
    However don’t expect MSM or BBC to mention these inconvenient facts.

    Murray is only Labour mp from Scotland yet labour have 2 reps on Scottish affairs committee while Tories have 5 but SNP only 3 from their 46 MPs.

    Westminster democracy in action.

  68. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Do you seriously doubt we face a health crises?

  69. callmedave says:

    Boris doubling down on the number of tests /day from 100,000 (which was never achieved) to 200,000 by the end of May.

    PS: It’s Wednesday so it’s out of hospital deaths data day. 🙁

    The figures released by the NHSE for England this afternoon do not include those who have died in care homes, although the UK-wide figures that is to be reported by the WM government will.

    See what I mean! 🙂

    BBC figures.

    N. Ireland……….14……Total……..418

    UK………….today……????…..Total…..*29758 *SUN

    Scotland total including out of hospital now 2795

  70. robertknight says:


    “like all spoilt papers, it’ll go in the pile of spoilt papers and no-one will ever look at it.”

    Trust me, they do get looked at; especially if the result is close.

    I’ve attended a couple of counts and the spoiled papers were examined by all to confirm that they were indeed spoiled. (Some counting agents can be a little… partisan may be too strong a word… over-zealous shall we say, when applying the rules!). Any humorous comments on them often did the rounds.

  71. kapelmeister says:

    There’s an SNP* within the SNP. There will not be independence until it’s power and influence is taken away.

    * Sturgeon’s Nobbling Posse.

  72. jfngw says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    It’s shite, unless they are willing to divulge who their experts are and how they had access to peoples personal medical records in such a short period then they have no published data, just opinion.

    The numbers in the UK don’t hold up, unless they can explain the 40,ooo excess deaths in a six week period, they can’t be wished away (multiply that up for a year and it’s a lot more than a heavy flu outbreak, 350,000 is that total and the first 2 weeks had hardly any fatalities).

    My son in law just arrived back on his NS rig, on his last visit someone was taken off by helicopter with the virus, he returned this week, the man died and I’m pretty sure he wasn’t 70 or 80.

  73. Stuart MacKay says:

    Ian Brotherhood @2:52pm

    I dunno. All these assertions are not out right refutable and open to interpretation. Case in point “only about 1% of the deceased had no serious preconditions” I’m not gerontologist but I reckon if you get to 80 you probably do have some pre-condition or other.

    The main problem is the lack of data. It’s all apples and oranges comparisons so nobody can say with any certainty what is right and what is wrong. I think once this is all over it will turn out to be less of a deal than was made out but I still think it is a big deal all the same.

    Remember that the initial thinking on the lock-downs was to avoid overwhelming the medical services. The stories out of Italy were that stroke patients were being sent home untreated because the hospitals were already full of covid patients. Whether that was really true or not remains to be seen but in any case it’s clear that nobody had been spending the money to be able to deal with any pandemic of any size so there was a serious risk that the health services would collapse to the detriment of everybody. What are you going to do if all the doctors are sick?

    Also it was not clear just how bad this would all turn out. Everybody contracts the virus is another opportunity for a new strain to emerge that could prove more deadly. Imagine if one came along that had 50% mortality in all ages after being asymptomatic for 3 weeks. Jesus! I admit the chances of that were small but given enough bodies to pass through very small numbers can get quite large quite quickly. It’s vaguely possible the end of civilisation was on the cards.

    In other words there were a vast number of unknowns and now there’s all this exact hindsight that suggests it’s all overblown and a storm in a teacup.

    Well it would have been even less of an issue of the medical services had the resources they needed to deal with it in the first place.

    In any case, if this turns out to be a hue and cry about nothing at least we’ll be a bit better prepared when the next one comes along. And it will.

  74. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Ian, I’m pretty certain that Swiss ‘research’ is pseudo-science.

    COVID-19 conspiracy theories: Expert discusses the psychology and danger
    Conspiracy theories have been the gasoline on the fire that has sparked resistance to COVID-19 social distancing guidelines and doubts over the danger of the disease.

    That resistance has escalated into protests in several states.

    Conspiracy theory expert Joanne Miller, an associate professor of Political Science and International Relations at the University of Delaware, answered five questions about the danger and psychology at work behind these beliefs regarding the coronavirus.

  75. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Cam B (3.27) and jfngw (3.38) –

    The link I posted at 2.52 is for reference and discussion. The sources used by the authors can be reached via the many hyperlinks.

    Whether or not I agree with the findings presented is irrelevant and I won’t be responding to further comments suggesting otherwise.

  76. robert graham says:

    Just seen a clip of Ian Blackford confronting Johnston with his Rapier like delivery , oh f/k no wonder Johnston was laughing ,he was asking Johnston to instruct his MPS to stop the politicking duringb this crisis of course Johnston couldn’t hide his laughter he must have been pissin himself just like every time he gets shaken and disturbed by the ferocity of these incisive questions from Blackford ,
    Most people here could rip the piss out of that big egitt , f/k me I give up it reminds me of the quote about Jeffery Howe I can’t remember from who but it was along the lines of Like being savaged by a dead sheep , Johnston must have been really shaken , or was he trying not to laugh who knows

  77. Ian Brotherhood says:

    For those instantly rubbishing the Swiss Propaganda Research site –

    If you can offer a better alternative to the stuff we’re having hammered into our heids 24/7 by UK msm, I’m all ears.

  78. jfngw says:

    @robert graham

    I gave up with Blackford after the ‘Scotland will not be taken out of the EU against its will’, we’re out, nothing happened, empty rhetoric.

    Did I hear correctly Johnson staing at PMQ’s his objective was to ‘protect the NHS and save lives’, this the day after we have the highest death occurrences in Europe (not death rate that the BBC keep on stating incorrectly). Also spotted the Tories are using the virus to accelerate sell of of NHS services. So both of his claims amount to no more than lies, who would have thought!

  79. Col.Blimp IV says:

    jfngw – “It’s shite, unless they are willing to divulge who their experts are”

    There are loads of links to sources on that site.

    and here is one to a site that employs the Dalglish method of prediction.

  80. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Lots of interesting stuff on here

  81. SilverDarling says:

    Just looking back at the timeline of events regarding Alex Salmond and when the establishment decided to act. If I remember rightly he had a backer to buy the Scotsman and then all hell broke loose and the backer withdrew.

    Now if he had been able to do that how different would the political landscape now look? I’ve watched his shows on RT and he gets good guests to answer hard questions. We might have had a section of the press that was more than partisan muckrakers.

    So exactly how threatened were the ‘Scottish’ press and what role did they play in have in this? I suspect a much greater role than we are aware. The devastated reaction of Davie Clegg on Alex Salmond’s acquittal and the subsequent pack attack says it all.

  82. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s easy to manipulate science in order to support a political agenda (see GERS). Trusting these Swiss dudes simply isn’t rational, as they are suggesting there is no real danger and the entire world is being played.

    Full text.

    The BMA COVID-19 ethical guidance: a legal analysis

  83. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Col. Blimp IV –

    Thanks. Looks interesting. Have signed up for the newsletter.

    If all this turmoil has done nothing else it’s forced us to rethink (some for the umpteenth time nae doots) where we source our ‘news’.


  84. How anyone cannot believe it wasnot a stitch up is beyond believe but it maybe explains the intelligence of some out there and why we are no further forward in gaining our freedom I think I understand what Lord Belhaven said when he left Scotland after the enforced Union Scotland is now only fit for the cowards who live there he died abroad of a broken heart

  85. SilverDarling says:

    Meant to put the link in.

    Not just buy the paper but buy Johnston Press so I guess he had to be stopped.

  86. jfngw says:

    @Col.Blimp IV

    There is a lot of links, too many to follow them all. The first statements states 0.20% fatality, this is impossible to quantify as not everyone has been tested. You only get a test in the UK if you have symptoms, the death rate here is being given by a university as 15.6%, but that is obviously nonsense because the data is incomplete.

    The second states the likelihood of death is no more than a car journey, unless there has been 40,000 deaths from car journeys in a six week (four week in reality) period then it is plainly nonsense.

    They saay many die of other causes after contracting the virus, of course they do, if you have a weakness any serious illness will probably end in death. The important point is would they still be alive if they had not contracted it, if the answer is yes then the virus is responsible.

    They quote the Telegraph to prove that some deaths are not actually the virus, but the story is about excess deaths not allocated to the virus and how these will increase.

    Those that believe it is a hoax should just go about as normal with a DNR badge attached, after all if it is a hoax there is nothing to fear.

  87. Col.Blimp IV says:

    But his Beer is Good…

  88. robertknight says:

    Robert Graham @3:49

    Blackford epitomises everything wrong with the SNP troughers at Westminster. All bluster and empty rhetoric – about as much use to Scotland as a chocolate teapot to a diabetic.

    The sole exception of course is Joanna Cherry, who the leadership would love to muzzle I’m sure.

    As for the rest, they might as well spend every day at Westminster sat on their arses whistling, but instead of Beethoven’s 9th/’Ode to Joy’, they could try the theme to The Muppet Show. Far more appropriate.

  89. Stuart MacKay says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Thanks for that link to the SPR. Initially I just read through the claims and based my response on that. I went back and went through a few of their links. They do gain a lot of credibility by publishing that and it’s a hell of a lot better than some MSM “journalist” skimming some tweets and writing an opinion, oops, story.

    The interesting part is that despite all the facts and links I still ended up not quite believing it. I think this because there’s no trust. It’s just a bunch of stuff and numbers and there’s no way for me to tell if it’s well researched and absolutely true or just another crackpot site peddling junk funded by some right-wing pro-business lobby group.

    This brings me to the point that in Scotland we have very few trustworthy sources. Craig Murray’s integrity clearly gets him to top of the list – despite what you think of his politics. Rev. Stu. is also up there – despite what you think of his “presentation skills”.

    So it seems that there’s an opportunity to fill that gap. The question is how. The discussions here go a little way, in their own way, but what more could be done?

    Barrhead Boy touched this yesterday, Seems the first party to realise that the bloggers hold the keys to the kingdom will sweep the board.

  90. callmedave says:

    Minister for the Community Robert Jenrick pleads to the public to buy a newspaper everyday!

    You know it’s bad when you hear that in a live broadcast to the ‘Nation’ 🙂

    New gwaffs…. now deaths/million UK 2nd in the world to Portugal

  91. Joe says:

    What the guys questioning the Covid-19 fear propaganda need to remember is that at a certain point its stops being about evidence, basic common sense or healthy suspicion of so called experts and becomes an issue of psychology. A lot of people just cant handle the idea that serious, caring faces on TV are lying bastards who don’t give the merest tiny shit about them.

  92. Joe says:

    The case in point being wikileaks and Julian Assange. The amount of people that think Trump is the problem is unbelievable. Yet a look at the actual material shows that wikileaks info doesnt implicate Trump. It implicates his political opponents who were committing the crimes assange has the dirt on. That concept bursts a bit too many bubbles though…

  93. Robert Louis says:

    It is rather interesting to observe one very pertinent fact. Despite all the shouting by certain quarters in the lickspittle media, following Mr Salmond being found innocent of all charges in the high court, he himself, aside from a brief statement, has said nothing.

    Yet his opponents scream and shout. It might make you think they are feart.

    I look forward to those involved in ANY wrongdoing facing justice. Revenge is indeed best served cold.

    As for the SNP leadership, well, in all her time, NS has, despite one of the most ineffective, useless and hated Tory governments in my lifetime, failed to advance independence one iota. Slow handclaps all round. She (and Mr. Murrell) should go. The sooner, the better.

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not suggesting the corporate media isn’t ‘managing’ this crises for the Tories, but I thought folk had learnt to be critical about their sources of information.

    Full text.

    Studying COVID-19 in light of critical approaches to risk and uncertainty: research pathways, conceptual tools, and some magic from Mary Douglas

  95. Mike d says:

    Ive noticed a rise in scottish game show contestants and scots accents in adverts. Not more lovebombing surely??

  96. callmedave says:

    A total of 30,076 people have now died in hospitals, care homes and the wider community after testing positive for the virus, up by 649 from Tuesday.

    This is a UK figure:

    No separate figures for (all) deaths in England are spoken by ministers or given on BBC Web Sites to this time. (as usual)

    Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick said they were “heartbreaking losses”.


    Big Auntie confirms that the Boris’ promise to reach 200,000 tests is to count the test done as soon as one is posted to you!! 🙁

    Coronavirus: Private call centres will run new contact tracing system

  97. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Mike d

    There is definitely something fishy about the way they load up game shows, quiz shows and adverts there has to be an agenda there .

    Must be our our place in the New World (pecking) Order – Our reward for the promotion of all things Woke and Globalist.

    If you want on the telly just pretend that you are one half of a married, interracial, same sex, transgender couple, with a disability and a Scotch accent.

  98. Joe says:

    Im not much for documentaries, but this is thought provoking. It gets taken down often.

  99. CameronB Brodie says:

    Science is certainly under attack from corporate interests, but the threat from covid is real.

    Developing a critical realist informed framework to explain how the human rights and social determinants of health relationship works

  100. Dog biscuit says:

    Contact Tracing a STASI dream

  101. Dog biscuit says:

    Chipped like animals.

  102. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    I thought you’d seen the light, though I see you’re still clearly barking.

    Human Rights Dimensions of COVID-19 Response
    ….International human rights law guarantees everyone the right to the highest attainable standard of health and obligates governments to take steps to prevent threats to public health and to provide medical care to those who need it.

    Human rights law also recognizes that in the context of serious public health threats and public emergencies threatening the life of the nation, restrictions on some rights can be justified when they have a legal basis, are strictly necessary, based on scientific evidence and neither arbitrary nor discriminatory in application, of limited duration, respectful of human dignity, subject to review, and proportionate to achieve the objective….

  103. Tinto Chiel says:

    While looking for more information on Swiss Propaganda Research, I noticed this short description under a link to the site.

    “15 Apr 2020 – Swiss Propaganda Research (SPR) is an independent nonprofit … is anything but an open, transparent and reliable source of information.”

    This is an artful and misleading editing by someone of the text found on the webpage of SPR, since the words “SPR warns that Wikipedia” have been removed before “is anything but an open, transparent and reliable source of information”.

    Rather sneaky, that: cui bono?

    The site has a lot of links to articles and statistics. Lay people will have to make their own minds up about them but you do need to take time to absorb a lot of information.

  104. Dog biscuit says:

    I still think my suspicions are well founded.That has nothing to do with arseholery.

  105. Dog biscuit says:

    Call me Dave, do you wonder if some of those figures might turn out to be mistaken,exagerrated, or perhaps conflations of other types of death?

  106. Joe says:

    From the National Center for Biotechnology Information

    Dated August 2005

    Who told you this? How were you told to react? Puppets on a string?

  107. CameronB Brodie says:

    Most folk lack the necessary skills to make competent judgements on risk (see the 2014 Scottish indy ref). These Swiss dudes lack ethical credibility, IMHO.

    A critical realist inquiry in conducting interdisciplinary research: an analysis of LUCID examples

    In recent years, a strong natural science hegemony has predominantly framed our understanding of sustainability challenges and, as a result, the production of solution strategies. In countering this, some academic centers have sought to promote interdisciplinary research, starting from the recognition that the scale and complexity of sustainability challenges necessitates a plurality of different social science perspectives to be incorporated in research.

    In this article, we analyze the process and outcomes of one of these centers, namely, the Lund University Centre of Excellence for Integration of the Social and Natural Dimensions of Sustainability (LUCID), maintaining a heavy emphasis on incorporating social sciences into interdisciplinary sustainability research from its inception.

    First, we identify and motivate the selection of a consistent set of criteria for evaluating interdisciplinary research processes and outcomes. Second, we apply these criteria in an analysis of a selection of scholarly work produced at LUCID. Third, we evaluate the impacts of LUCID’s institutional settings on the process of interdisciplinary research. Finally, we assess to what degree the outcomes of LUCID research have managed to produce the synthetic integrated knowledge required to analyze and address complex sustainability challenges.

    Although the LUCID work in aggregate represents a plurality of social science perspectives, our analysis suggests that a meaningful synthetic integration of knowledge was accomplished in cases where researchers employed retroductive logic and adhered to the principles of methodological pluralism. In highlighting the need to systematically incorporate these essential elements into the research process, we stress the importance of institutional settings in terms of finance, administration, and providing a conducive intellectual environment wherein authentic interdisciplinarity can emerge.

    Maintaining the kinds of horizontal and vertical institutional integration characteristic of such conducive settings, however, poses a major challenge in light of current trends, at least in Sweden, toward more compartmentalized, disciplinary university structures.

    Key Words:
    antireductionism; critical realism; interdisciplinary research centers; methodological pluralism; retroduction; sustainability science

  108. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    Joe posted this earlier.

    Will you please address it?

  109. robbo says:

    Meanwhile back at the ranch this little pip-squeak thinks you’ve had enough.

    Awe the money this wee fanny has,he can’t ever seem to get a suit that fits! Dick.

  110. Dog biscuit says:

    Most folk are in fact eiquipped to make competent risk assessments every day of their lives

  111. Pete says:

    Under age 45 deaths in UK Covid deaths to date – 330
    Comparable Scottish deaths – 19.
    We are ruining the lives of this section of the population.
    The Asian flu pandemic of 1968/69 claimed 80000 UK lives.
    Nobody bothered and life just went on.

  112. Stuart MacKay says:

    callmedave @5:24pm

    > New gwaffs…. now deaths/million UK 2nd in the world to Portugal

    I think you’re referring to general cluelessness by Jenrick. But just in case (and apologies if) you aren’t. here’s some selected death rates per 100k population from Johns Hopkins:

    Country deaths/100k pop.
    Belgium 70.18
    Spain 54.82
    Italy 48.51
    United Kingdom 44.37
    France 38.12
    Netherlands 30.09
    Sweden 28.03
    Ireland 27.59
    Switzerland 21.08
    Portugal 10.45
    Germany 8.43

    Portugal might not be the richest country in Europe but the health service here is generally top notch.

  113. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    I lack the technical competence Ian and I don’t want to speculate. Yes science is under attack. Yes the media is unreliable. But that Swiss site appears to be cherry-picking science in order to make a case. It lacks ethical credibility on a number of levels, IMHO.

  114. Pete says:

    Robbo 7.48
    The little ‘pip squeak’ is correct.
    People are becoming addicted and the sooner he reduces the percentage down to 50 or 60%, the better.
    If we carry on like this, we’ll become a communist failed state.

  115. robbo says:

    Pete says:
    6 May, 2020 at 8:07 pm
    Robbo 7.48

    IS that right .. Can you tell me if any MP’s MSP’s have been furloughed?
    Naw, didn’t think.

    That streak of lanky piss Rees Moogie wants more fecking money for him and his goons, 10k +

    Scum the lot of them.

    Time there was a pay cut there, lazy bastards!

  116. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB (8.06) –

    I was asking you for reaction to the short video Joe posted earlier.

    Here’s the link again, to save you scrolling back.

    And if it’s been pulled by Youtube (which it has been previously) you can find another version here –

    The documentary is based around an interview with Dr. Judy Mikovits, whose latest book is reviewed here:

  117. Golfnut says:

    Sorry, the sh#t Nicola has to put up with.

  118. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    I watched the video and I lack technical competence to comment in an ethically competent manner. Sorry, I can’t be any more honest.

  119. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    ‘ethical credibility’?

    Is that something from your Critical Theory lexicon of bullshit terms?

    Credibility – this can be determined by fact checking and looking at evidence.

    However if you add ‘ethical’ to it then it becomes far less clear cut and can be redefined in any way the user of the term so desires.

    This is coming out of higher education now.

    Our entire society, morals and civilization can be pulled apart using this method and decent honest people, who don’t innately see the sheer dishonesty of it, have real difficulty arguing against such methods.

    It puts power in the hands of the people redefining the words. It is literally tyranny over language and therefore our understanding and therefore our ability to have solid basis from which to govern ourselves.

    The trouble is Cameron, I know that the fuck you are doing even if you don’t.

    Its credibility. Full stop.

  120. CameronB Brodie says:

    No Joe, that’s just how you describe professional competence. You are clearly not clued up on legal practice and stuff, so you can dere-lick my balls cap-E-tan.

  121. CameronB Brodie says:

    Once you’ve finished dere-licking my balls, you can kiss my baby soft arse.

    What is Ethical Competence? The Role of Empathy, Personal Values, and the Five-Factor Model of Personality in Ethical Decision-Making

  122. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    It would just be nice to get your honest reaction to it. The only tools required to undertake such analysis are functioning ears.

  123. Golfnut says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood.

    Looks like more people seeking the the truth.

  124. robbo says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    6 May, 2020 at 8:32 pm
    @CamB (8.06) –

    I was asking you for reaction to the short video Joe posted earlier.


    I did watch it Ian and it was quite interesting. Brave women if what she say’s is happening, is. I’m in a position that this virus is here in the now and it’s us suckers that have to deal with it now , not 1980′ 90’s or whatever shit decade it was messed around with manually.

    I do believe pharma companies are scum at times and hell mend us and forbid America gets a vaccine first whereby they could blackmail and extract billions out of the world through fear alone.Whether we need this vaccine or not, it’s us that are stuck in a catch 22 ,whereby we go herd to kill it or go vaccine -either way we always get fecked and a lot of innocent people will die no matter what..

    We’re always at the mercy of conglomerates and down right evil people,the world hasn’t changed much in thousands of years- such a selfish race the humans.

    Money is and always will be the route of ALL evil.

  125. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Finally some honest use of language. I appreciate that. Do let it continue.

  126. Joe says:

    Oh and Cameron – you can always tell how much someone is bullshitting by the amount of context they have to build before they say what they have to say.

    What is Ethical Competence? The Role of Empathy, Personal Values, and the Five-Factor Model of Personality in Ethical Decision-Making

    Exactly proves the point I made earlier.

  127. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    You are drawing me into the realm of speculation. I’m a critical realist and an ethical rationalist, so it’s not in my intellectual nature to speculate. Yes the USA has many dark secrets but I don’t really see their relevance to stopping the pandemic spread of covid, which is our rational, ethical, priority. Sorry bud. 😉

  128. CameronB Brodie says:

    I don’t like being gas-lighted, gonnae no.

  129. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Ian B, yes I watched and I note that it makes the link to Fort Detrick which I knew about months ago. Add to that the NY ER doctors warnings about the wrong treatment protocols. And my own knowledge of chloroquine being removed from access in London.

    About six weeks ago I posted something on FB which was looking at the links to Detrick and the Wuhan military games and it was flagged on FB and hidden behind a “usa today” fake news warning. Have never seen that before and to me that makes it a red flag. If they are trying to hide it and knock it down…

  130. Joe says:

    CameronB Brodie

    No. You don’t like being pinned by someone who understands the techniques you’ve learned from whichever bullshit humanities department that armed you with Critical Theory before wandering into cyberspace like some unwitting NPC in a computer game to defend establishment propaganda by using dishonest and disingenuous language.

    In layman terms – you are slippery. Or is that ethically slippery? Im not sure.

  131. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood, re the video posted by Joe.

    That makes for very interesting viewing. I thought it very well made and the Dr involved came across very well.

    I’ll keep my brain ajar for further information, open to the possibility that there’s a fair degree of accuracy within.

    I’m not sure if it is still available on you tube but if you can view it there is an award winning documentary regarding Lymes disease – I’m sure it was called ‘under our skins’ but could be wrong on that – in particular it highlighted the gatekeeping of science that took place in the ’80’s with prolific Patenting and how big pharma (and particularly health insurance co’s) infiltrate Government Health decision making bodies. Such is the reach of the inter web these days, that this affects how our GP’s make decisions every day, as they search for supposed ‘best practice’.

    The trouble with Covid 19 is its new, so, all stats are still to be collated, in a way.

    Kind regards

  132. CameronB Brodie says:

    You know very little about me and certainly not enough to pass judgement. My training was accredited by the Royal Town Planning Institute, who are as far from woke as you can get. So once again you’re attitude suggest you’re a bit of a bigot.

    Shall we continue in dissecting you character and personality, or have you not had enough yet?

  133. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Go ahead. Its what you do when you have no more ammo left.

  134. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Ian B, thats the video taken down already.

  135. CameronB Brodie says:

    Btw, that’s Post Modern Critical Social Theory, TA. 😉

    Hostility as a Psychological Phenomenon and Object of
    Scientific Research

  136. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ken fit ah mean? 😉

    Ideological diversity, hostility, and discrimination
    in philosophy

  137. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Thanks clarifying pal. I wasn’t going to put in the post-modern bit, but thats fine.

    Heads up folk – this is whats coming down the system at you. Language defined by others depending on whats needed to dodge or block anything you say. Cheers Cam.

  138. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m a critical realist and ethical rationalist. You appear to be a slavering idiot.

    Discourse Ethics and Critical Realist Ethics:
    An Evaluation in the Context of Business

  139. Dog biscuit says:

    Only parts of Italy were heavily affected by covid .The media gave the false impression that Italies whole health system was collapsing .I tell you we’re being worked. The same exagerated reports in this country.The common link is thr media.

  140. Dog biscuit says:

    The media cheerleaders of fascism.

  141. Dog biscuit says:

    Robbo,such an evasive answer to the mans question.Anybody else notice that?

  142. Dog biscuit says:

    Disassociation turning this present emergency into a legal and moral conunudrum in order to prevaricate and waste time.Meanwhile the Megalomaniac Bill Gates gets handed a contract to vaccinate the world. If anyone refuses a vaccine what becomes of them?

  143. Dog biscuit says:

    Cameron, why do you accuse people of bigotry when they catch you out? And this’you dont know any thing about me ‘ routine is wearing thin already.

  144. CameronB Brodie says:

    First and foremost though, I value the epistemic integrity of Institutional knowledge. Such as the status of Treaty law in the scheme of international jurisprudence, and the legal recognition of the biological difference between the sexes.

    Why Critical Realism Fails to Justify Critical Social Research

    Many social scientists have argued that research should be designed to perform a ‘critical’ function, in the sense of challenging the socio-political status quo. However, very often, the relationship between the political value judgements underpinning this commitment and the values intrinsic to inquiry, as a distinct form of activity has been left obscure.

    Furthermore, the validity of those judgements has usually been treated either as obvious or as a matter of personal commitment. But there is an influential tradition of work that claims to derive evaluative and prescriptive conclusions about current society directly from factual investigation of its history and character.

    In the nineteenth century, Hegel and Marx were distinctive in treating the force of ethical and political ideals as stemming from the process of social development itself, rather than as coming from a separate realm, in the manner of Kant. Of course, the weaknesses of teleological meta-narratives of this kind soon came to be widely recognised, and ‘critical’ researchers rarely appeal to them explicitly today.

    It is therefore of some significance that, under the banner of critical realism, Bhaskar and others have put forward arguments that are designed to serve a similar function, while avoiding the problems associated with teleological justification. The claim is that it is possible to derive negative evaluations of actions and institutions, along with prescriptions for change, solely from the premise that these promote false ideas, or that they frustrate the meeting of needs. In this article I assess these arguments, but conclude that they fail to provide effective support for a ‘critical’ sociology.

    Key words:
    Critical realism, critical social science, explanatory critique, deriving ought from is

  145. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    I simply understand a bit about about identities and psychologies, and can observe hostility to reason. 😉

    Identity Studies in the Social Sciences

  146. Dog biscuit says:

    Cameron, a person doesnt need science to understand psychology .In fact many ,many would dispute it was a science. You duck and dive like a boxer.

  147. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    Far greater minds than mine have thunk this stuff up, you appear to be forgetting I’m simply the messenger.

    Culture, context and society – The underexplored potential of critical realism as a philosophical framework for theory and practice

  148. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    Do you seriously think the RTPI would consider this stuff relevant for an understanding of reality, if it wasn’t ethically valid?

    The sociology of identity: social science or social comment?

  149. Joe says:

    Anyhoo. I would strongly advise people try a wee glance over the scientific paper I linked from the NCBI. Its a bit jargon heavy but you can get the jist of it.

    Whoever says Chloroquine is not effective is either lying or ignorant. Guess who is the NCBI director? Fauci.

  150. CameronB Brodie says:

    You doubt you have sufficient technical competence to make scientific or ethical judgements.

    COVID-19 policy: Applying the precautionary principle when the science is uncertain

  151. CameronB Brodie says:

    “I” doubt….

  152. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Arent you the one with brain damage? Is that why you claim reading difficulties when theres an argument you cant Critical Theory to death?

  153. CameronB Brodie says:

    So you think that because I can’t explain everything, a scientific world view is crap? You really are a twisted MoFo.

  154. CameronB Brodie says:

    Learning critical theory helped me reconstruct myself.


    Neuroplasticity is a continuous processing allowing short-term, medium-term, and long-term remodeling of the neuronosynaptic organization, with the aim of optimizing the functioning of neural networks during phylogenesis, ontogeny, and physiologic learning, and following brain injury.

  155. Joe says:

    So…if you can’t read very well whats someones saying to you…then you must be pretending to read this crap you continually post? Which would explain why more than half of it has no relevance to the conversation. It all makes sense. Anyhoo, banana in my vertigo because the lucidity cycles of the epoch are awash with overly verbose spanners. Och, you know what I mean

  156. CameronB Brodie says:

    Just because I have problems with language, doesn’t mean I’m a dunce. Or that I’m unable to overcome obstacles in my path. However, you appear to be an individual who fears what they do not understand, and to display a tenancy to make up elaborate explanations for that which you lack knowledge of. Such a psychology is coherent with the bio-neurology of the right wing mind. Night, night. 😉

    Neuroplasticity and Clinical Practice: Building Brain Power for Health

  157. Dog biscuit says:


  158. CameronB Brodie says:

    I forgot to mention that an individual’s psychology is produced through the interaction of their biology and the natural/social environment. So to suggest psychological sciences are not “science”, is to display an ignorance of what science actually is.

    The denial of a legal respect for biology, destroys the principle of universal human rights.

    Contributions of Neuroscience to Our Understanding
    of Cognitive Development

    One major contribution of neuroscience to understanding cognitive development has been in demonstrating that biology is not destiny – that is, demonstrating the remarkable role of experience in shaping the mind, brain, and body.

    Only rarely has neuroscience provided wholly new insights into cognitive development, but often it has provided evidence of mechanisms by which observations of developmental psychologists could be explained. Behavioral findings have often remained controversial until an underlying biological mechanism for them was offered.

    Neuroscience has demonstrated promise for detecting cognitive problems before they are behaviorally observable—and, hence, promise for early intervention. In this article, we discuss examples drawn from imitation and mirror neurons, phenylketonuria (PKU) and prefrontal dopamine, maternal touch and stress reactivity, and non-genetic (behavioral) intergenerational transmission of biological characteristics.

    plasticity, epigenesis, mothering, executive functions, animal models, molecular genetics, memory

  159. Iain More says:

    The poll pretty much sums up what I think others thought about AS being stitched up but it is now kind of irrelevant.

    Why irrelevant? Well at the last election I stuck a peg over my nose and voted SNP. I held out the false hope that they were still the Party of Scottish Independence but time has crushed that hope totally. I wont be sticking any kind of peg on my nose next time.

    If the SNP isn’t the Party of Scots Indy first, second, third and lastly then it is nothing. I wont be voting for them in the Constituency vote ever again. I hope for a credible Indy Party to emerge for the List Vote in 2021 so that I can at least vote for an Indy Party if the Brit Tory coronavirus doesn’t get to me first.

    The fact that Butcher Johnson is wanting to begin lifting the Lockdown in Inger-land next Monday is another message that we need a new Indy party in Scotland and one that isn’t gutless. To feck with whether or not our pretendy Parly has the power or not to close the borders. The SG should close the borders to save Scottish lives but this lot wont as they gutless.

    I am now off FB to be abused by the SNP sycophants. That doesn’t worry me as I got stoned and far worse abuse canvassing for the SNP during the East Lothian BY-ELECTION in the late 1970’s. Those were dark days indeed. The SNP now just sickens me with its cowardice.

  160. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Iain More

    The SNP Cowards? … Never!

    We will defend to the death … Your right to wear a dress and change your name to Nancy!

  161. Dave says:

    Why dont we wait to see who Alex Salmond decides to go after. I think he is able to distinguish his friends from his enemies better than any of us. I dont believe Nicola Sturgeon is one of his enemies she isnt the type to put somebody in prison for something they didnt do. The civil service doesnt work for the Scottish Government they are controlled from the Scotland Office. Thats where you should start pointing the fingers.

  162. Stuart Anderson says:

    I’m so pleased this morning reading wings btl comments from Ian B and others, it has given me a positive outlook on the day that some of us are thinking in a different way about covid-19.
    I will share your links with some folks I think will read it.
    If Scotland continues the lockdown and England relaxes the rules I will be furious with Scotgov.

  163. Dog biscuit says:

    The Idiot Sturgeon well out of her depth. She insults everyone of us .She brings her office into disrepute. I wonder if her latest White knight defender on here lives in happy clappy land.You cannot seperate Sturgeon from her handler Evans.

  164. Dave says:

    Im willing to bet Alex Salmond doesnt name Nicola Sturgeon as his nemesis we already know he’s gunning for Evans he’s called for her resignation at least once already. I dont know what it is with so called Indy supporters trying to create a division where there doesnt appear to be one. Seems to me this woke/anti woke argument is getting in the way of the Indy movements coalition and is the real separation point. Get a grip or we’ll never see Independence within a generation.

  165. Joe says:


    Speaking as a citizen and resident of Scotland I find the ‘woke/anti woke’ issue as more immediately troubling than the Union. The woke agenda is literally pushing for the kind of laws that will end our free society and destroy lives. I didnt let that into Hollyrood. SNP supporters did

  166. Joe says:

    The thing is Westminster will allow Scots to choke their indy movement to death on it. The schism is such that I doubt the woke brigade would even cooperate on independence with another pro indy party. Thats because, unbelievably, they are an arm of globalist totalitarian communism rather than Scottish independence. Yes, I know how that sounds.

  167. Willie says:

    Fair comment Iain More.

    What you say is what very many of us think. The SNP has let us down. They have abandoned the fight for independence. They have abandoned the fight to remain in Europe. They have become the place poodle of Westminster and in that role have sought to destroy those who have independence in their heart.

    The Alex Salmond stitch up as this poll shows is recognised half of SNP supporters as being just that – a stitch up, a decapitation strategy to ensure that never again the SNP become a threat to the Union.

    The gargantuan effort by the Whitehall appointed civil service head Linda Evans, the enormous police effort to trawl forty years os AS’s life and over 400 individuals, the complicity of the Crown Office and Prosecution to purse charges found to be fruitless, the hounding and now charging of journalists like Craig Murray, the rates ds on other independence journalists homes to siege computers and phones, the charging of AUOB / Yes organisers for the alleged civic infringements of organising independence marches, the cancellation of campaigning goers like Stu Campbell’s Twitter accounts, are all examples of a coordinated effort by the establishment and a poodle SNP leadership to rein in an further attempt for independence.

    Rotting from within in the vehicle that nearly took us to independence is a tried and tested establishment strategy. Look at the history of Ireland and you see the parallels.

    But as the polls also show the dark arts have not destroyed the desire for independence. That fully arose no fifty percent and maybe more support should come as no surprise. At present in terms of political parties there is no where else to go.

    The challenge therefore is to reinvigorate the SNP leadership or create a new party. AS and his ilk were trying to do that and that is exactly why every effort was made to try and destroy him and his ilk.

    Will they succeed I don’t know the answer to that. The SNP leadership and the comfortable feeding off devolutionary greatness can be removed. But equally another Independence Party could arise, and arise quite quickly.

    Me, I would like to see the SNP reformed. As a long term member I now hold my nose voting for a party I have for decades put huge energy into. But you know what, with the way that things are, with rigged nominations, dead hand jobsworth, restricted conferences, and a Vichy leadership, the time is fast arrived where we need another party.

    An Hollyrood Indy list party, which could quite easily evolve could be part of the catalyst for the change that we need, and which so many of us recognise.

    And this poll brings that into perspective.

  168. Capella says:

    I’ve just watched the video and agree with much of what it says.
    Big Pharma is evil, the US patenting system is evil and Bill Gates is, well he used/abused the US patent system to privatise profit from publicly funded research. He’s not the only one. Noam Chomsky noted decades ago that MIT was surrounded by tech companies feeding off the publicly funded research going on there. Mostly military funding. Now it is biotech companies.

    BUT – I also trust Dr Michael Greger, who specialised in infectious disease control, when he says that these viruses come from farm animals housed in warehouses, crammed together, never seeing sunlight and acting as huge petri dishes for breeding viruses and bacteria. It is inevitable that those viruses cross to humans as they always have. We have no vaccine. So the only defence is staying isolated for 90 days.

    So Occam’s razor. It probably developed from animals and passed to humans through farmed animals – pigs, chickens or ducks.

    I’m staying at home for now. Once all these libertarians go out and show how safe it is, well OK.

  169. Mike d says:

    I cannot imagine anything more horrific than the liblabcon party in power at Holyrood. But if the Brexit and covid 19 fiasco cannot persuade the majority of Scots to vote for independence, then sadly maybe they need 5yrs of a Tory government imposing savagery on them, more foodbanks, more public spending cuts, more vicious sanctions on the vulnerable, total privatisation of the SNHS, your water metered, your country turned into a bigger shithole than the rest of England and Wales. Then sadly walk on with your blinkered eyes.

  170. Dog biscuit says:

    Probabilities are not facts. Locking down is not the only way to deal with this What does it take to get through to some of you?A Government mandate? Full herd immunity in the usual way.Your fear keeps us imprisoned. To all fools We wont see Independence with Nicola Sturgeon running the show.

  171. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Rev stu twitter taken down again, says suspended this time

  172. Mike d says:

    Did I mention also, fracking, more zero contract hours, someone will be paying the governments bill for all this mayhem, and Scotland will be paying the lions share.

  173. Ron Maclean says:

    Interesting article by Joanna Cherry in today’s National.

  174. H Scott says:

    Alan Mackintosh says:
    ‘Rev stu twitter taken down again, says suspended this time.’

    And his Sealand Gazette account also suspended.

  175. Willie B says:

    Looks like the Rev has been kicked from Twitter again, can’t find the Sealand account now either

  176. paul says:

    sealand gazette too.

  177. Newburghgowfer says:

    The Scotland Not do anything party has lost its way
    Election after election and a majority of Mps and they achieved diddlysquat at Westminster
    In my eyes they stitched Alex up like other members of the party, their action on womans rights is abysmal. I used to scorn the Labour Party for being full of fuckwits well the Do nothing Party have been infiltrated with the same ilk. What a sorry state Scotland is in Politically if we have a Party that keeps winning but achieves nothing by being too nice to the Establishment.
    I won’t be voting at next election because I’m certainly not bothering my erse on voting for the Golden Nuggets we have masquerading as Politicians here.
    I don’t really care how well they babysit the economy for Westminster

  178. Joe says:


    I have not yet acted on any lockdown instructions. I have never felt at risk. No masks. No gloves. I social distance only so as not to make those around me uncomfortable.

    Do you really believe that the Philippines with its poor families of multiple generations living within tiny huts, within overcrowded neighbourhoods with poor sanitation, hardly any healthcare has been affected less than 1st word countries?

    I am not playing this game. So count me as one of your unconcerned libertarians while you gaze out on the world from your window, a prisoner of your own fear.

  179. Scotspine says:

    Sealand Gazette too. It’s a concerted effort to close Stu down.

  180. Dog biscuit says:

    A party of common sense that recognizes reality and nature. I’d imagine there is a big market for no nonsense no insane denial of nature free speech,whether or not you like it and a return of Transvestites to the Music Hall stage . What kind of a specialist…?ah never mind.

  181. Pete says:

    This is a question of freedom and economics.
    Carry on much longer like this and the health consequences of poverty and mass unemployment will be dire.
    I keep repeating – Scotland has had 19 deaths in the under 45 age group.
    I speak as an over 70. I want the young to go about their business and be prosperous, not to be shackled to their prison cells of homes and be paid by the state.
    This country is becoming ever more communist by the day.
    Sturgeon – go!!

  182. Capella says:

    @ Joe – do you live in the Phillipines? I don’t know much about the Phillipines or how it is coping with the virus. I have seen graphs of a large spike of extra deaths in March and April in many countries in Europe an North America.
    What do you think the explanation is?

  183. Republicofscotland says:

    So the ennobled leader of the Labour party Sir Keir Starmer is coming to Scotland soon, where he intends using our votes as the road back to power at Westminster.

    Boy is he in for a shock.

  184. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Capella, I have seen some correlation that countries with a high incidence of Malaria have a low incidence of Covid. Perhaps due to the use of chloroquine as an antimalarial. Phillipines prob falls into that category. I’ll see if I can find the link.

  185. Kenny says:

    What I want to know is how Cambodia has not been affected at all. Close to China and have you ever been to Pnomh Penh? Everyone close together, plus the Asian countries rely more on open markets and have more human contact (use cash more than plastic, for example). Vietnam has also done a superb job.

    Stu’s twitter account has now been closed down… after some SNP (!) woke lot said they were going after it. It would always be them, not the unionists or even the “dead press” journalists…

    I am convinced that it is madness NOT to have a new “indy and only indy” party. All the other parties (except the Tories) are embracing the woke insanity and operating in a twitter bubble. Canvassing: can you imagine the effect of a WBB as election literature? Also, any woman or man who has women in his family/life can seriously only vote for a new indy party (or Tories, if she/he is unionist).

  186. Capella says:

    @ Alan Macintosh – Yes I’ve read that too. Sounds plausible.
    Graphs here of European excess deaths. Scroll down for maps.

  187. Capella says:

    If the SNP Wokus Dei are responsible for the suspension of all of Stu’s twitter accounts then we need to be considering what to do about it. It’s a direct attack on freedom of speech and illustrates the dangers of the proposed Hate Crime Bill. If those deranged individuals are now dictating what it permissible or banned we are in big trouble.

    Is there any redress? Does anyone know?

  188. Stuart MacKay says:

    From the BBC on the 400,000 protective gowns from Turkey.

    “All deliveries of PPE are checked to ensure the equipment meets the safety and quality standards our frontline staff need. If equipment does not meet our specifications or pass our quality assurance processes it is not distributed to the front line.”

    WTF? Even a pair of goggles with one eye-glass missing cuts the risk of infection by 50%.

    Definitely a “wrong type of leaves” moment.

  189. Scotspine says:

    If its shown to be Wokeists with the SNP, then I will simply vote 1 AND 2 for the forthcoming new party.

  190. George Gordon says:

    I assume Stuart will keep us up to date here on the suspensions?

  191. Colin Alexander says:

    Kenny said: “Stu’s twitter account has now been closed down… SNP…It would always be them, not the unionists”.

    The SNP are Unionists who describes themselves as pro-independent.

    Like arms dealers selling to both sides in a civil war.

  192. Alan Mackintosh says:

    The text from the bottom of that link I just posted, from Roy Spencer
    “On the subject of using antimalarial drugs for COVID-19 treatment, I’ve compared COVID-19 cases versus malaria incidence by country….

    This is amazing. I downloaded all of the data for 234 countries, incidence of total COVID-19 cases (as of 3/17/2020) versus the incidence of malaria in those countries (various sources, kinda messy matching everything up in Excel).

    RESULTS, Multi-country average malaria cases per thousand, COVID-19 cases per million, in three classes of countries based on malaria incidence:

    Top 40 Malaria countries: 212 malaria = 0.2 COVID-19;
    Next 40 Malaria countries: 7.3 malaria = 10.1 COVID-19
    Remaining (81-234) countries: 0.00 malaria = 68.7 COVID-19
    Again, the units are Malaria cases per thousand “population at risk”, and COVID-19 cases per million total population.

    In all my years of data analysis I have never seen such a stark and strong relationship: Countries with malaria basically have no COVID-19 cases (at least not yet).

  193. Scotspine says:

    Chris Cairns just confirmed that Stu told him the @RevStu and @SealandGazette are now gone.

  194. Wullie B says:

    Aye Scotspine, that was my thought too, wonder if Wishywashy had anything to do with it

  195. SilverDarling says:

    Well it looks like Stu will have to start that party soon as since it seems he is not allowed a personal voice on Twitter.

    The same people who used to try silence any dissent on here against the SNP now making it personal? Do they honestly think people will change their minds because Stu is not on Twitter? According to them Twitter isn’t the real world so why are they so worried?

    I wonder how much that poll yesterday galvanized them at the highest level.

  196. Scotspine says:

    @ Wullie. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

  197. Meg merrilees says:

    For once I take my hat off to Kaye Adams…..

    This morning, discussing whether we should lift the lockdown or not…

    A guy phones in who is a construction worker, says he thinks we should retain lockdown in Scotland for 3 more weeks, he’s appalled by images of Construction sites in England where they have been allowed to carry on working, must have resulted in many infections etc..

    Next caller, older, well spoken lady, says it’s gone on far too long. Scotland is just like any other region of the UK, same as Yorkshire, so we need a UK wide policy. K mentions previous caller who thinks it should remain.
    Older lady dismisses his idea, why he’s working outside, that’ll be safe.
    K tries to put across the other man’s point of view at which point older lady says,
    “och well, he must be one of these Scottish nationalists then..”

    at which point K scolds her, cuts her off and goes to someone else and older lady never heard again.

    That’s what we’re up against folks…

  198. Dog biscuit says:

    The more the polished little knobs of SNP try to stifle political dissent the more votes thel’ll lose.The current SNP leadership is a gift to the Unionist because Sturgeons unpopular policies are splitting the party and Indy movement. I believe Sturgeon pushing policy for billionaire establishment.

  199. Alan mackintosh

    astonishing correlation. You need to let the vaccine manufacturers, glasgow university know that info.
    Maybe some of them read Wings…

    Maybe Trump is right – aargh!!!!

  200. cirsium says:

    @Alan Macintosh, 10.20,
    The use of chloroquine as an antiviral has been known since the outbreak of SARS in those countries. Doctors in Wuhan noticed that patients with lupus were not catching SARS-CoV-2. Hydroxychloroquine is one of the effective antiviral treatments in China and Singapore. China posted its guidance for other countries to use.

    Hydroxychloroquine has been in use for 70 years. It is not under patent so it is not expensive to prescribe. Nearly all antiviral agents effective against acute infections (e.g. Tamiflu, zanamivir, peramivir, zinc, rimantadine and amantadine) are most effective if administered within the first 48 hours of symptom onset. Similarly, hydroxychloroquine is likely most effective at preventing progression to invasive ventilation and death if administered early. This is the advice of Professor Didier Raoult (I’ve posted his findings earlier). Senegal, Morocco, Algeria, Turkey, and Iran have made use of this knowledge. So have doctors in the USA
    Hydroxychloroquine has about 90% change of helping COVID-19 patients – Association of American Physicians and Surgeons

  201. Dog biscuit says:

    Fauci denys efficacy of chloroquine because he is genocidal thief. Politicians only listen to the ‘experts’ they pay for.

  202. Patrick Roden says:

    Dog Biscuit said:

    ” Cameron, a person doesnt need science to understand psychology .In fact many ,many would dispute it was a science. You duck and dive like a boxer.”

    Without wishing to get into the argument about who is the cleverest geezer on wings, I’d nevertheless like to make a comment about whether psychology is a science or not.

    If you study psychology and hope to be working with people who’s very future may depend on how well you understand the subject, you can’t just ‘make it up as you go along’ or introduce some quack theory that you watched on a youtube film.

    That’s why a practitioner must take a science-based degree to become qualified in this field.

    That means you study academic papers on the subject (requiring scientific training) and do not simply form your own opinions.
    You learn scientific methods until you yourself are able to conduct experiments while following the rules that all scientific studies must adhere to.
    The evidence that a certain method has therapeutic or beneficial value must be able to be examined in a scientific setting ie, tested by statistics and tested to make sure it isn’t just placebo or some other variable that is causing the outcome (‘snake oil cures’)

    Without the scientific approach to psychology, everyone with psychological needs or populations who followed a certain behaviour because of advice from psychologists (could be as simple as the noise made when lights change at a pedestrian crossing), would be at the mercy of those with the most persuasive or better ‘contacts’ rather than that which is scientifically proven.

    The easiest way to understand it though is to ask yourself how qualified you’d want a psychologist who was treating you or a loved one.
    surely you’d expect him or her to know what they were doing and not to have some theory that they simply pulled from their own ass.

  203. Dog biscuit says:

    Chloroquine not under patent so no money in it for Fauci. Follow the money.

  204. Dog biscuit says:

    Tea and illegal drugs in the garden wonderfull

  205. PacMan says:

    Pete says: 7 May, 2020 at 10:13 am

    This is a question of freedom and economics.
    Carry on much longer like this and the health consequences of poverty and mass unemployment will be dire.
    I keep repeating – Scotland has had 19 deaths in the under 45 age group.
    I speak as an over 70. I want the young to go about their business and be prosperous, not to be shackled to their prison cells of homes and be paid by the state.
    This country is becoming ever more communist by the day.
    Sturgeon – go!!

    I’m no fan of the lock-down and see the need of an exit strategy to protect the economy but when it occurs there needs to be some form of containing the virus so that it doesn’t run riot through the population.

    You say that there are only 19 deaths in the under 45 age group. What would the death rate for the age group if there was no lock down in place and nothing put in place to contain the virus?

    I am in that age group and I don’t see myself as invincible. Anybody with an ounce of sense knows that when you catch something, your body and immune system gets weakened and needs time to recover. Lets not kid ourselves, the things are going, if you work and get sick with the coronavirus, you will be expected to get back to work as soon as possible or else you get your books. Imagine getting repeatedly affected when you don’t have time to recover? Imagine it gets to the point where you are so weakened that you need to put into hospital. With the petri dish that hospitals will become even somebody in their 20’s and at the peak of their health’s life chances are severely diminished.

    Lets look at the over 70’s and other vulnerable groups. In a post-lockdown society where there are no efforts to contain the virus, they are going to turn into as lepers, not traditional ones that are affected themselves but afraid of being affected. They are going to be turned to the fringes of their society as well as their younger relatives who help them where their social lives will be severely curtailed for fear of getting affected and passing it to their elderly relatives.

    You say you are over 70. I think you really do need to give some serious thought about blindly repeating the nonsense you read. Yes, there needs to be lifting of the lock down as soon as possible but there needs to be some plan put in place to deal with the coronavirus in that scenario. The Tories had ample opportunity to contain and stop the deaths of so many people with this first wave. Do you trust them to contain future waves and regionalised outbreaks?

  206. Patrick Roden says:


    The best comment on this thread by a mile 🙂

  207. Dog biscuit says:

    Our Sparrows taking a bath barelysix feet away from me. Keeping their distance. You all know how special it is when wild life trusts you.

  208. cirsium says:

    @Meg merilees, 11.15

    Trump was quoting Dr Zelenko who had followed the medical advice from China and Prof Raoult and found that it worked. I archived Dr Zelenko’s letter

    In a later interview, Dr Zelenko said that President Trump’s Chief of Staff contacted him soon after he had sent the letter.

  209. Ruby says:

    Alan Mackintosh says:

    Rev stu twitter taken down again, says suspended this time


    Why does he need Twitter? He has a perfectly good website.
    Any reason why he couldn’t set up his own ‘twitter style’ website or a page on this website where people could tweet.

  210. Colin Alexander says:

    Came across this, in case anyone is interested:

    “Treaty Handbook

    Prepared by the Treaty Section of the Office of Legal Affairs

    United Nations”

    Found here:

  211. Dog biscuit says:

    I had to prevent a magpie from killing a female blackbird the other day.The damndest thing.Blackbird survived.They really are intelligent our avian friends. When Im here there are no cats so safe for clever birds to drink and bathe. All this to let you know I am human.

  212. Mountain shadow says:

    So, that’s Salmond, Murray and now Campbell being silenced by not Unionism but so called independence supporters.

    We’re going to need that new party.

  213. Dave says:


    I too feel strongly about the woke issue its wrong for degenerates to self identify themselves into places they dont belong but EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING has to take a back seat to our chance to take control of our own Country and its Governance because without it there is NO ISSUE AT ALL we can deal with if every decision we take is subject to approval from a foreign based and controlled authority. In other words it doesnt matter what we think about woke or anything else in Scotland unless the English think the same way we do. Unless we address that simple plain reality then we can squabble til the cows come home over everything and it wont mean jack shit.

  214. Dog biscuit says:

    Aaaagggghhhhhhh! Thought I’d run that thought by you Patrick.

  215. Dave says:

    @Mountain shadow

    Which Scot Indy body authority or organisation is silencing Salmond Murray or Wings?

    The civil service went after Salmond the UK media went after Murray and Wings none of which is pro Scot Indy.

  216. Capella says:

    Alan Mackintosh – yes it is an interesting correlation. I would expect the SG advisors who were appointed after the advice from “SAGE” proved to be unreliable, to have looked into this?

    I’m drinking up as much tonic as I can get!

  217. Effijy says:

    Pete, that’s amazing the 77th still employ trolls aged 70.

    No one is a prisoner in their home!
    Go out for a walk or drive when you like.
    Go the the Supermarket, the Hardware Stores
    The take away shops.

    As for the economy, Scotland should have the same oil fund that Norway
    Has with a Cash cushion of £100k for every man, woman and child.

    I’ve been paying Westminster plenty for over 45 years and there should
    Be reserved in the treasury for any events like this to backed up.

    I don’t want to spend £Billions of Fake Wars, Nuclear Weapons, Brexit,
    Bailing out Casino Bankers or High Speed Rail Links for the country next door.

    The health and well being of my family is first priority always!
    Sod the delay in keeping the wheels of corruption turning for the rich.

    We need Indy Ref within months before Westminster kills us with Covid 19
    Or international embarrassment from their handling of Brexit, Covid management
    and refusing Scotland the right to hold referenda.

  218. Bipod says:

    Has anyone else noticed the almost palpable desire that the lockdown fanatics in the media and the public have for Sweden to fail. Everyone wants Sweden to fail and for their hospitals to be overflowing with the dead because they haven’t got the message that the lockdown is the “right” thing to do.

    Swedish death rates are always reported in comparison to other Scandinavian countries, because if you compare them to everyone else (who have had lockdowns) they are pretty middling, to make them look as bad as possible.

  219. Mialuci says:

    I like to visit Peter and Roughie every day, good bit of banter in amongst the serious football stuff, be a good one today, Rangers are going to reveal some serious wrongdoings in their dossier.
    It will be discussed by the great intellects of the day, it will be shared around the globe by the faithful and the disloyal in equal numbers no doubt.
    But one thing it will reveal quite clearly, we scots can moan with the best of them lol

  220. Dave says:


    Do you think there are people who actually like the idea of being locked down? You think they support the idea because its fun? Maybe they just believe in the SCIENCE?

  221. Clapper57 says:

    Well the concerted effort being made to stop Stuart Campbell on Twitter is relentless is it not….I am not on Twitter…but to those who are….I say…be vigilant…as in…what’s good for the GOOSE is good for the GANDER…..of course for some it may depend on whether you self identify as a GOOSE or a GANDER…..or , as seems to be the case, BOTH…

    They… as in the him/her or she/he brigade think they have cooked his GOOSE….but I suggest you keep having a GANDER at their accounts….I am sure they will all eventually stew (Stu) in their own juices…and get a good ROASTING….eventually they will fall foul (FOWL) of Twitter rules….we have a GAGGLE who are currently having a giggle as they and those they support i.e. BIRDS (BLOKES really and the BIRD fanciers) of a feather FLOCK together… the Jury is out on that one….as in bearded ladies (or rather Blokes) doth not maketh woMEN…’s enough to make you want to HONK….

    One hopes that eventually they/them will all eventually decide to MIGRATE elsewhere politically…cause it is clear they only identify with pursuing their own me/my agenda….which is definitely not one which I self identify as being part of….

    Question…Are we getting our independence or what ???

    Answer…well it would appear, for some, that independence is lower down in the PECKING order ……and the TALONS are OUT.

  222. Bipod says:


    I think many people have become very invested in the idea that lockdown has saved tens of thousands of lives and “saved the NHS”. Any suggestion that it hasn’t is almost always meet with fury, and that you must be some right winger that hates old people. There is an increasing body of evidence that is showing that the lockdowns had no effect on the transmission of the virus, but politicians don’t like to admit they are wrong which is why we are seeing such a concerted effort to make Sweden’s approach look like a failure. Just consider that according to the statistics as they are now Sweden has performed better than Scotland and that was without a lockdown.

  223. Pete says:

    You ask me if I can trust the Tories.
    Excuse me, I live in Scotland, and I rather assumed that Health was devolved.
    Otherwise, why is Sturgeon on the telly every day telling us to stay indoors?
    So, I have to trust the SNP, SG.
    No thanks.
    On a personal level, my wife and I disobey all the regulations and go about our business as normal, visiting our family who all live locally.
    Unfortunately, all the restaurants are shut so we can’t go there.

  224. robbo says:

    Bipod says:
    7 May, 2020 at 11:46 am

    You keep harping on about Sweden, feck knows why. Seems the people are thinking- “think we’ve fecked up here”.

    Why wouldn’t you compare with Norway ,Finland and Denmark? ffs

  225. robbo says:

    Pete says:
    7 May, 2020 at 12:11 pm
    You ask me if I can trust the Tories.
    Excuse me, I live in Scotland, and I rather assumed that Health was devolved.
    Otherwise, why is Sturgeon on the telly every day telling us to stay indoors?
    So, I have to trust the SNP, SG.
    No thanks.
    On a personal level, my wife and I disobey all the regulations and go about our business as normal, visiting our family who all live locally.
    Unfortunately, all the restaurants are shut so we can’t go there.


    A good reason the likes of you should move back south.
    Breaking the law for your own selfish ideology . muppet!

  226. CameronB Brodie says:

    Patrick Roden
    I’m not simply stroking my ego in public bud, I’m justifying my position as I was trained to do. 😉

  227. gus1940 says:

    CBB is some kind of self appointed genius who considers himself to be the intellectual superior of all other Wingers.

    He clutters up Wings BTL with his boring repetitive utterances.

    I would like to know just how many readers do not scroll past any entry with his name on it.

    Why doesn’t he bugger off and start his own site where he can continue to ramble on boring anybody stupid enough to read anything he says?

  228. CameronB Brodie says:

    Would you tell your dentist how to do his job? Why don’t you start using your intellect, instead of exercising your narrow minded hostility towards ethical legal reason?

  229. Colin Alexander says:

    Dave said: “Which Scot Indy body authority or organisation is silencing Salmond Murray or Wings? The civil service went after Salmond”

    Stu Campbell wrote: “Because to the surprise of many Yessers who considered the whole trial a Unionist conspiracy, it transpired that in fact every accusation had come from people who’d been on Alex Salmond’s own team – either his political colleagues or his staff.

    The Scottish Government and the notionally-Scottish civil service had first colluded on a private investigation which was both so ham-fisted and so unlawfully biased that it collapsed in a shambles which has cost the Scottish taxpayer over £600,000”.*



  230. PacMan says:

    Pete says: 7 May, 2020 at 12:11 pm

    You ask me if I can trust the Tories.
    Excuse me, I live in Scotland, and I rather assumed that Health was devolved.
    Otherwise, why is Sturgeon on the telly every day telling us to stay indoors?
    So, I have to trust the SNP, SG.
    No thanks.
    On a personal level, my wife and I disobey all the regulations and go about our business as normal, visiting our family who all live locally.
    Unfortunately, all the restaurants are shut so we can’t go there.

    I wish there was a way to emphasis a sigh when posting text onto internet forum as I just don’t know what to say in relation to your post.

    The level and impact of this health crisis goes beyond health where all part of society needs to be levered to deal with it. As a devolved administration with limited powers, it is beyond the Scottish government to tackle the crisis on it’s own.

    An example of this is last week when the SG said they were thinking of ending the lockdown, there was cries south of the border that economic help should be withdrawn. Now that the UK is most likely easing lock down and winding down economic help, the SG can’t continue the lockdown on it’s own.

    Therefore your argument that it solely lies with the Scottish government is false.

    As to your personal circumstances, I had originally posted my comment out of empathy for the circumstances that your age group will inevitably face post-lockdown. From the noises they are making, it is obvious they are happy for parts of the population to be permanently in self-isolation so everybody can go about their normal business.

    However, given your reckless and selfish behaviour,despite my apprehensions about it myself but it looks like some people just can’t behave responsibly both towards their own personal safety and those of their fellow citizens.

    You may say that I have swallowed the ‘Kool-aid’ of those who favour or see this as an opportunity for more authoritarian control. If you had shown an ounce of common sense, a bit of self control and respected the people around you then the arguments of these authoritarians would be falling on deaf ears.

    If what I say does happen then in the months to come, I can see you coming on here moaning about the SG curtailing your personal rights because you simply don’t have the self-awareness that people like you are partly the cause of the predicament you will be facing.

    There is no point is trying to engage you in argument because you know everything and everybody else is wrong.

  231. PacMan says:

    gus1940 says: 7 May, 2020 at 12:50 pm

    CBB is some kind of self appointed genius who considers himself to be the intellectual superior of all other Wingers.

    He clutters up Wings BTL with his boring repetitive utterances.

    I would like to know just how many readers do not scroll past any entry with his name on it.

    Why doesn’t he bugger off and start his own site where he can continue to ramble on boring anybody stupid enough to read anything he says?

    I actually find him quite funny and in his own irritating way, he is one of the dying breed in our increasingly boring, bland superficial society that can called a ‘character’.

    Love or loath him, you know he will get the last word in 🙂

  232. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Alan Mackintosh: that’s quite a statistic re Covid in “malarial” countries. Thanks for sharing. Perhaps a reason that a country like Vietnam has few Corona deaths?

    If cheap, tried-and-tested AMDs could be effective against the disease, this would not be good news for Big Pharma.


  233. CameronB Brodie says:

    So do you really think so? 🙂

  234. Muscleguy says:

    I note your personal twitter is now suspended as well. I hope your are appealing this.

  235. PacMan says:

    robbo says:7 May, 2020 at 12:32 pm

    A good reason the likes of you should move back south.
    Breaking the law for your own selfish ideology . muppet!

    I have issues about how Pete puts into practice his world-view and in turn through his actions, forces those views onto other people around him, not where he had originally came from.

  236. robbo says:

    Tinto Chiel says:
    7 May, 2020 at 1:40 pm
    @Alan Mackintosh: that’s quite a statistic re Covid in “malarial” countries. Thanks for sharing. Perhaps a reason that a country like Vietnam has few Corona deaths?


    Not so sure on that!
    Vietnam were on the ball even before WHO were and nipped it in bud. The country was Fort Knox x 10000 in days when they heard about it. No beating around the bush with liberty mafia there!

  237. Dog biscuit says:

    ‘Liberty Mafia’ as opposed to the Lockdown Stasi?

  238. AberdeenPict says:

    Tinto Chiel says:
    7 May, 2020 at 1:40 pm
    @Alan Mackintosh: that’s quite a statistic re Covid in “malarial” countries. Thanks for sharing. Perhaps a reason that a country like Vietnam has few Corona deaths?

    It is an interesting statistic. I have been to a few far East countries and have also done some work in, Kenya, Ivory Coast and Port Harcourt in Nigeria. After speaking to a lot of the locals, certainly in the African countries, hardly any local people take any anti-malarial drugs at all due to cost and availability in rural areas etc. Also, anti-malarial drugs I believe, can has some severe side effects on the liver etc. if used every day over a long period of time.

    If that is the case, then are some of these countries more predisposed to not catching/feeling the effects of the Coronavirus? I read somewhere a while back, that even though thousands of African people die from Malaria each year, others just don’t seem to get it, even in the worst affected areas, and even though they had not taken anti-malarial at all.

    Interesting thought though, I am sure later on in the year the picture regarding malarial countries will hopefully shed some light/statistics.

  239. PacMan says:

    CameronB Brodie says: 7 May, 2020 at 1:58 pm

    PacMan So do you really think so? ?

    I don’t come on here posting much and haven’t been involved in on-going debates although you had launched an ‘opening salvo’ recently at me involving the merits of lifting the lockdown.

    The bottom line is that you are clearly a very intelligent individual and I’m not going to pretend to understand the articles that you post in support of your articles. There is also the valid point that you will suffer from cognitive bias where are times you might not be right. However, I do find your posts entertaining and at times funny in a geeky sort of way with your grenade hurling barbs at your detractors.

    Diversity isn’t just about difference of colour of skin, sexuality or any other physical or biological characteristic, it is about diversity of thought, opinion and looking at things from different angles. There are plenty of times where I will disagree with you whether I post about or not but that doesn’t mean I respect your view.

    Keep up the good work and don’t let those who argue against you get you down. We need original thinkers to give the rest of us insight on how to deal with the relentless and every changing assaults of the more powerful unionists with vastly superior resources. It really is a case of needing superior wits and we need guys like you if some people don’t realise that.

  240. PacMan says:

    Dog biscuit says:7 May, 2020 at 2:20 pm

    ‘Liberty Mafia’ as opposed to the Lockdown Stasi?

    Given the time we had for preparation because we knew weeks in advance of what would be coming, if the Tories locked down sooner we would have been out of lock down a lot sooner and in a better position than the rest of Europe at least.

    Typical Tory mentality, short term penny pinching but paying far more than we would have had in the long term.

  241. Dog biscuit says:

    Robbo,the lockdown police man.

  242. Dog biscuit says:

    No Pacman.If we had rode it as we do with all flus we would’nt have had the high casualties and the disease would have run its course by now.In fact with or without high casualties the disease would still have run its course by now.Lockdown prolongs the problem.

  243. PacMan says:

    Dog biscuit says: 7 May, 2020 at 2:34 pm

    No Pacman.If we had rode it as we do with all flus we would’nt have had the high casualties and the disease would have run its course by now.In fact with or without high casualties the disease would still have run its course by now.Lockdown prolongs the problem.

    Not sure what flus mean?

    Both sides of the lockdown argument do not have enough evidence to prove their argument is right. Therefore, logic dictates that a degree of caution needs to be taken.

    I assume you are in favour of not having a lock down. You don’t have any evidence to say at that time that the herd immunity proposed by the Tory government would work and it would deliver less deaths than what a lockdown produces.

    What also detracts from your argument is your lack of understanding of the lockdown.

    Lockdown wasn’t meant to stop the virus. It is a method to contain an outbreak of the virus that was already out of control and was in threat of overwhelming the health facilities of the society that was dealing with it. Lifting the lockdown can only be done when there is enough resources in place to contain and deal with future outbreaks until a solution is found.

    Until you can grasp that, you can argue against it until the cows come home but you will be greeted with the same reply.

  244. Tinto Chiel says:

    @robbo 2.06: I’m just amazed these silly wee countries can do so well without being ruled from London 🙂

    @AberdeenPict: thanks for that perspective, I’ve never been to Africa or the Far East and from what you say the picture with regard to malaria and who gets it seems quite complex. Some anti-malarials also seem to cause depressive symptoms as well as liver problems so they’re not always the easy answer but I was surprised by the numbers AM quoted.

  245. robbo says:

    Tinto Chiel says:
    7 May, 2020 at 3:02 pm
    @robbo 2.06: I’m just amazed these silly wee countries can do so well without being ruled from London ?


    Well land mass wise their around 4 times our size(Scotland), and near 20 times our population.All that run by albeit a one-party authoritarian state, so no, they didn’t need anyone else telling them what to do.They knew what had to be done!

    If we had voted YES in enough numbers in 2014 eh ! Just think!

  246. Tinto Chiel says:

    Times 20 population? Wow!

    Sadly, robbo, I think about 18/9/14 most days.

    *Bites carpet*

    Doesn’t affect me, affect me, affect me…..

  247. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel & AberdeenPict
    I’m not a doctor but I do appreciate a holistic approach to evidence based medicine. So I’m naturally cautious of unintended side-effects. 😉

    A serious nightmare: psychiatric and neurologic adverse reactions to mefloquine are serious adverse reactions

  248. robbo says:

    Tinto Chiel says:
    7 May, 2020 at 6:40 pm
    Times 20 population? Wow!

    Sadly, robbo, I think about 18/9/14 most days.

    *Bites carpet*

    Doesn’t affect me, affect me, affect me….


    Yeah surprise me a little too.Even bigger than UK by a third pop wise 96.5 million.

    Good we tool here for land mass size comparison i use.

  249. CameronB Brodie says:

    Genuinely not trying to get the last word here, but I’ve just spotted your post @2:24pm. I don’t know why I missed it earlier.

    I’m sorry if you thought I’ve been having a pop at you, that one-liner was Dundonian humor. Or at least I intended it that way. I’m not as extroverted as this in real life, this is what “performative practice” looks like, or at least my best attempt it.

    “Diversity isn’t just about difference of colour of skin, sexuality or any other physical or biological characteristic, it is about diversity of thought, opinion and looking at things from different angles. There are plenty of times where I will disagree with you whether I post about or not but that doesn’t mean I respect your view.”

    This is the crux of my outlook. A plurality of thought, especially economic thought, is vital to our chances of achieving sustainability in the pasterns of our economic and social activities.

    Thanks you for your endorsement and please don’t let me have the last word. 😉

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