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Statements of the obvious

Posted on May 23, 2016 by

So a few things need said about the events of the weekend.

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1. Hibs fans had no business invading the pitch. They’d waited 114 years to win the cup, but in those 114 years no other club’s fans had felt the need to take to the Hampden turf when they won, other than (as far as we can tell) in three incidents, all involving Celtic and Rangers.

In 1909 the Scottish Cup was actually not won by anyone – after two draws between the Old Firm the crowd invaded the pitch and rioted (allegedly suspecting a fix to increase revenue from having more replays), and no second replay was ever held.

In 1965 a Celtic victory over Rangers in the League Cup final ended like this:

leaguecup65

And most recently, another Celtic win over Rangers in 1980 sparked an infamous riot:

The incident led to the banning of alcohol from all Scottish football matches, which the Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy recently tried unsuccessfully to overturn, backed by then-deputy Kezia Dugdale. (We can only fearfully imagine the scenes yesterday had everyone also been tanked up on a few half-time pints. Scottish Labour have rather conspicuously declined to comment, understandably.)

dugdalebooze

Every precedent of fans invading the Hampden pitch has ended in violent disorder and it was always bound to do so again, particularly with the other end being occupied by fans of the new “Rangers”, people who have never reacted well to opposing supporters celebrating on the turf.

(Though they deserved credit for not taking the bait at Fir Park last year.)

Whatever else happened, had Hibs fans stayed in their seats at the final whistle they could have celebrated, their players could have enjoyed their moment on the field, and all anyone would be talking about would be football.

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2. Some Hibs fans actively provoked trouble. There are countless examples in football and other sports of exuberant fans invading the pitch after a victory and causing no harm – including most of the playoffs this month in the English leagues – but while the vast majority of Hibs fans appeared to be simply overcome with joy, a significant minority went up to the other end and goaded the “Rangers” support.

Smashing up the goals and ripping up the turf are also violent, provocative acts that can’t be brushed away as “high spirits”.

hampdenbar

3. Some Hibs fans definitely attacked “Rangers” players. Despite conflicting rumours and counter-rumours (“Rangers” striker Kenny Miller was at one point said to have been knocked out cold in the centre circle, but his wife later tweeted that nobody had touched him), we’ve seen with our own eyes conclusive footage of attacks on Lee Wallace and goalkeeper Wes Foderingham.

Neither was particularly serious in terms of physical harm, but were also a step beyond mere jostling (still unacceptable in itself) and must have been extremely frightening in the circumstances. Anyone identified must be banned from all Scottish football grounds for life, in addition to prosecution. There can be zero tolerance for assaulting opposing players in any circumstances.

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4. “Rangers” fans had no business on the pitch either. They were provoked, but nobody has to react to provocation. They could have walked away, retaining the moral high ground and leaving Hibs alone to bear responsibility and punishment.

Instead, thousands of them struck up another chorus of sectarian anthem “The Billy Boys” (which had also been sung during the match) and hundreds took the excuse to enter the field seeking violent confrontation.

Dealing with a pitch invasion is the police’s job, not vigilante ned mobs who did much to wind up and antagonise the Hibs fans in the first place.

stave

(Oh, and the lack of self-awareness it takes to set up a petition demanding Hibs be banned from European competition, just a few short years after the same “Rangers” supporters smashed up the city of Manchester before and after losing the UEFA Cup final, is quite breathtaking.)

rangersmcr

5. All “Rangers” fans are responsible for sectarian singing. The notion that only a tiny minority participate in songs about wading “up to the knees in Fenian blood” is a farcical lie, proven countless times by incontrovertible video evidence, often filmed by the club’s own supporters and tweeted or uploaded in unrepentant triumphalism.

reececoventry

If, as is continually protested, there exists a “decent majority” of fans at Ibrox, they have the solution within their hands. Don’t join in. Boo down the songs when they start, which involves no individual confrontation. Make them socially unacceptable. “It’s nothing to do with us” is no longer an excuse. If you’re the majority, prove it.

The Tartan Army had a terrible reputation for drunken, boorish hooliganism, but then it took responsibility for policing itself and is now loved across the world. You don’t ever get to play the injured innocents if you’ve been singing about wading in people’s blood because they’re a different religion to you. Those are the rules.

6. The club itself is also culpable. Extraordinary official press releases like the one put out on Sunday afternoon, almost certainly penned by the demented former Daily Record hack turned PR man Jim Traynor and blaming everyone from Nicola Sturgeon down while totally exonerating “Rangers” fans, fuel the persecution and victimhood complex of the more loathsome elements of the support, storing up toxic resentment and hatred – not least with the use of religiously-charged words like “parish”. Having Traynor as your PR is like putting Katie Hopkins in charge of negotiating the return of your kidnapped child.

The singling out of individual journalists for vilification puts their safety at risk and is as criminally irresponsible as the claims that “Rangers” fans only invaded the pitch to “protect” their players are laughably insane. Whoever wrote and approved the release should also face police investigation for inciting violence.

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7. The Scottish football authorities’ cowardice is another factor. For decades they’ve failed to take the only meaningful action that might deter sectarian singing – the deduction of points – out of fear of the reaction (or worse).

They’ve also cravenly bowed to pressure from the “Rangers” support over the events surrounding the liquidation of the original Rangers and its replacement with a new club, something else which has only fuelled the fans’ unjustified and poisonous sense of bitterness, grievance and injustice.

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8. The same goes for the Scottish media. We can’t help but be reminded of the parable of the frog and the scorpion. Four years of craven appeasement have brought the succulent lamb brigade no gratitude. For as long as the press are too terrified of the financial or physical consequences of standing up to the bullying of the club’s thug fans, they’ll create an angry dog which will turn round and bite them.

The Daily Record’s pious condemnation of the violence even as it gleefully stokes the hatred with atrocious ultra-partisan regular “fan blogger” columns and lurid, unsourced incendiary allegations is as hypocritical and cynical as it is reckless.

johnbrownibrox

9. The police handled the situation extremely well. A few hundred police and stewards can’t possibly stop 10,000+ fans getting onto a pitch if they really want to. There was no reason to expect a pitch invasion (see 1), and when it happened it was dealt with in a careful manner that didn’t make things worse. There appear to have been no serious injuries and a more heavy-handed approach could have been bloody.

Anyone can be wise after the event and demand a heavier presence, and we suspect future finals for some time will see more visible police lines in front of the stands as the final whistle approaches, but nobody wants fences back or thousands of cops in the ground at showpiece occasions.

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10. Almost nothing on Earth could be stupider than repealing the OBFA at this point. The message it would send would be catastrophic. Endless articles about it have bleated “Why are football fans alone singled out?” Well, ye ken noo.

——————————————————————————-

A thrilling football match on Saturday that was a credit to the Scottish game (it’s been all but forgotten that both teams contesting the final were from the lower divisions – possibly the first time, and certainly the first in the modern era, that such a thing has ever happened) has since been overshadowed by utter idiocy on the part of just about everyone involved – supporters, clubs and media.

The extent of the disorder has been massively exaggerated to suit various agendas, but nobody comes out with any credit, although Hibs (in refusing to be drawn into the shouting match since the immediate aftermath, in sharp contrast to several hysterical, swivel-eyed and borderline threatening press statements from “Rangers”) and Kenny Miller have conducted themselves with the most dignity.

As ever, what the events tell us encompasses far more than football, revealing truths about Scottish society, culture and politics that are often unpalatable. Imbeciles like Tory MSPs Adam Tomkins and Murdo Fraser, at least one of whom should know better, in stoking up the fires of bigotry with inflammatory language, bear as much responsibility in the long run as the idiots who ran onto the pitch.

tomkinswatp

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(Both, of course, are pontificating sanctimoniously about it regardless.)

We wait, entirely without bated breath, to see if any lessons are learned.

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    1. 23 05 16 02:55

      Statements of the obvious | speymouth

    194 to “Statements of the obvious”

    1. Doug Daniel says:

      Can’t help thinking of all the OBFA critics moaning about how unfair it is that football fans are being singled out under the act, while simultaneously racking my brain to think of the last time rugby or shinty fans staged a massive pitch invasion.

      Still, well done Hibs. You kept your bottle when it mattered for once.

    2. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ho-hum…

      Usual, predictable vacillation.

      Next?

    3. Alex Grant says:

      Excellent analysis Stu. Will be interesting to see if any of our media aspires to anything like it. I doubt it and Hibs will probably take the hit for it

    4. blackhack says:

      Sadly, a good game of fitbaw wasted by the minority…

    5. Connor McEwen says:

      Yir a helluva man rev.
      It is politics Jim but not as wee know it.
      It is aw Nicola’s fault and if the SNP had not won a majority in Holyrood then everything wid be aw right.

      Tank commander Ruthie Davidson or Davison wull fix it.

      Oh aye the bestest team won

    6. Jim Fleming says:

      Pitch invasions used to be de rigeur at rugby matches, Doug. The difference was that folk just ran about and congratulated players. They went out of fashion because they started to interfere with games as fans started invading before the final whistle and that business mentioned above got them banned at all sports.

    7. Cadogan Enright says:

      Clearly time to repeal the offensive behaviour act

      Obviouly the country will benefit from such a clever move

      Manifestly those who support this approach could’nt have any ulterior motives

      They just want Scotland to be a happier and more unified country

      They totally don’t want to encourage bitter divisions unrelated to the best way to govern Scotland

    8. David Mills says:

      And they want the OBAF Act scrapped, when it still has so much work to do.

    9. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      Ahhh! – the 1980 Horse’s game.

      That was a proper riot – my introduction to the Old firm.

      Saturday was a minor tiff in comparison and well pretty well controlled by the Polis.

      My Hibs mate posted some pictures of himself and his wee daughter on the the pitch. They were having a great celebration and affecting nobody. They had a ball together.

      What miserable bastards would not wish them well after 114 years – Only Rangers.

      Well done Hibs – a truely well deserved victory.

    10. carjamtic says:

      This is a huge Red Flag Warning not only to football,but to society,but also an opportunity to bring in some new rules,so no repeat.

      Off the top of my head

      Sectarian singing – deduct 3 points

      Aggressive pitch invasion – banned from Europe 3 years/demotion at least one league.

      Zero Tolerance – No Appeals.

      MSM/Broadcasters – No bias or put off air/fined.

      Politicians – Keep private views private football or otherwise.

      All are employed to do a job,just do your job or get out.

      Football fans you are responsible for your individual behaviour,stop blaming others.

    11. Iain More says:

      Pretty much agree with most of that. The lessons wont be learned though.

      As long as there is a god given sense of entitlement from a large section of the supporters of Rangers and as we have seen from Rangers the Club itself from its angry post match statement then nothing will change. I think that statement in itself is inflammatory. It bodes ill for the next football season.

      Oh and Stewart Regan should be sacked. He should have been sacked years ago for his blood on the streets comment. He is part of the problem and not the solution.

      Oh and in my opinion there can be no repealing of the OBFA. Repealing it only send out a message to the sectarian bigots that they have won.

      There can be no question about lifting the ban on the sale of alcohol at football grounds here, well certainly not if the Old firm is involved because far too many Celtic fans have the same ingrained sense of entitlement as their most bitter rivals. I would extend that ban to the hospitality seating as well. One law for all and one rule for all.

      Drive the bigots and haters not just from our football grounds but from our society. The overwhelming majority of us are sick of it.

    12. Ghillie says:

      Thank you Rev, an excellent round up of events.

    13. A lot of fuss about nothing. this truly is the age of the heightened sense of outrage. To paraphrase Marx, “if you have never been so insulted in all your life…you want to get out more”. Groucho was seldom wrong and the loss of perspective of events misses the fact that no one was badly injured, order was re-established and the winners were able to life the cup and celebrate shortly afterwards. Pitch invasions are a step forward from the catalogue of sectarian murders that characterised Glasgow and the west of Scotland over the 1990s and early 2000s. Where was the outrage then?

    14. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Usual, predictable vacillation.”

      ??

    15. defo says:

      One is not amused !
      Divide and rule. The gift that just keeps on giving.

      OBFA ? Only makes them worse, an excuse to play the victim.
      Hitting them in the pocket however… but the Blue noses in the SFA and our media will never surrender.

      Thinking outside my box, howsabout a new ‘sport’.
      A mini league of footy hooligans, rollerball style.
      Pay per view, i’m, sure it would be a hit 😉

      More seriously, once the hangovers lift over Leith, the wee team can regain control of the narrative, and the moral high ground by coming down tres hard on those seen to be on the pitch for a rumble.
      ‘Rangers’ certainly won’t.

    16. Dave McDave says:

      The events of the weekend will drastically change the tone of the next FMQ’s, as the opposition will be left spluttering as Nicola will undoubtedly tear strips off them for suggesting Scotland doesn’t need the OBFA and that it should be repealed rather than improved. Personally I think it’s great that the opposition’s grand plan has lasted only a week before being scuppered by a very timely (and public) reminder of why we have the disputed law.

    17. Nick Heller says:

      An attempted pitch invasion in the event of a Hibs victory was entirely predictable. That doesn’t mean it was desirable or certain but those with the job of those planning the stewarding and security of the game must have considered it a strong possibility.

      The regrettable reputation of a section of Hibs support, and that of some of Rangers fans made “goading and taunting” in the event of a pitch invasion which would lead to violent confrontation equally predictable.

      Knowing all this the failure to ensure adequate police and stewards to dissuade a pitch invasion at the end of the match falls squarely on the SFA and police – not on Hibernian or Rangers.

      On a side note the decision of the police to prevent the players from returning to the pitch for the the medal presentation was pointlessly arrogant and successfully punished the innocent most of all. The pitch had been cleared, no player of official was in any danger, and all that was gained was further opportunity for the world’s media to gain more of the pictures “nobody wants to see”. Instead the police made a redundant show of strength which only emphasised that the manpower had been available to prevent the entire incident in the first place.

    18. Ruglonian says:

      Fucking football 🙁

      They say politics is the new football in Scotland, well no thanks!
      (I live minutes away from Hampden fyi)

    19. Vambomarbeleye says:

      The queens 11.. I nearly pissed myself. That’s like in the 1950s when I was a bairn. We actually thought the Pope watched the Celtic games. Murdo Fraser obviously thinks the queen supports Rangers. What a tube. The queen doesn’t give a flying fuck about rangers or their supporters. Oh and the pope dozent support Celtic.

    20. Gerry says:

      Yes, conflating football and politics is a dumb trick overplayed by a tired media machine that can no longer disguise their agenda which is to polarise the issue using the most firmly entrenched binary division in Scotland.
      Thank goodness nobody on wings is dumb enough to fall for that one and rush headlong into it.
      Hook, Line and Sinker.

    21. Henry Clarson says:

      Very good summary of the story-so-far. I’m certain that there will be much more to follow.

      For some as yet unknown reason, the media are operating a massive, co-ordinated distortion of the narrative which is currently going beyond their standard dishonesty. I wonder how long it will take until their reasons become apparent.

    22. David says:

      The view from afar:
      Brazil’s “Globo” newspaper reported on 6 European cup finals in Sunday’s edition – Scotland’s cup had the headline, the only picture, and the first and longest report.

      Headline:
      “After 114 years, a motive to open up a bottle of whisky”.
      Pic:
      “The ‘Hibs’ making history”.

      The report focused on the “beautiful story” of Hibernian finally winning after a 114-year cup drought. It managed to mention both whisky and kilts, but sadly forgot about bagpipes and shortbread…

      It mentioned the pitch invasion, and that “some players were attacked by rival fans” but did not make a big deal of it.

      To be honest, no-one was killed, so for Brazilians it was no big deal. Brazil is used to football violence, having plenty of its own. So the story was the ending of the 114-year wait by Hibs.

    23. You neffer see bagmington players behave like that.

      Where was Jim Kelly when you never wanted him?

    24. Henichen says:

      Just like the MSM Rev, but its RangersBaaad. Because singing about mythical faiths is so much worse than rival fans ‘jostling ‘ with players. Your arguments are biased from the off. Ill always want independence and it will be without your reporting. Anti rangers hibs apologist

    25. DONALD McKILLOP says:

      Firstly let me state I follow the best football team in the world, the Jags. That said however, I am beginning to understand some Rangers fans’ feeling that the MSM and others are forever attacking their club. Here is a case in question; Hibs supporters’ invade the pitch, at best, abuse players and staff of the Rangers, some run to the other end and taunt the Rangers’ support, goal posts are broken, nets ripped apart and sods of turf taken as prized mementos but somehow it is all about singing the Billy Boys. Please give it a rest, as the singing of this and Celtic fans singing their songs are in the main, harmless. As a young lad I have walked the streets of Glasgow singing both the “Billy Boys” and “Soldiers are we”, all in mixed sectarian company. I have stood at Parkhead at the Celtic end wearing a green and white scarf with my friend Danny Rourke, as I have also stood in the Copeland Rd end of Ibrox wearing blue with Alistair Waterson, hope both are still alive and well. To me being at Celtic Park, and Ibrox were both absolutely mad experiences that I am glad to this day I did. This is Glasgow and sectarianism will continue until the day we stop talking about it. They are only songs, not bullets.

    26. Breeks says:

      Pitch invasion = Crowd control = segregation = barriers = Hillsborough.

      What a bunch of toe curling arse holes to behave like this barely a month after the Hillsborough verdict.

      The embarrassment heaped upon Scotland doesn’t get a look in. Apparently football is allowed to do that with impunity.

    27. Godstar says:

      Good analysis..and agree with most of your points…but to be honest the singing of The billy boys should be dealt with on an individual basis and each person filmed should be prosecuted for inciting murder …it’s nothing short of that. We should be having much more anti sectarian teaching in primary schools and TBH I’d like to see the end of separate religious schools in Scotland …along with the proscribing of any organisation that excludes on the grounds of religion and we all know which one that would include.

    28. Kavinho says:

      Whilst the majority of this makes perfect sense to me, Im a little surprised that the likelihood of an attempt to get onto the pitch at full time wasnt foreseen.

      The equalising goal came 10mins before, and gave an indication of what could follow. Then the winning goal was still 2 minutes before the full time whistle.

      It was there for all to see what was likely to happen.
      Was the match commander having a snooze at the end that he (presumed male) didn’t think to deploy a perimeter?

      So much of what happened was avoidable, and would have been avoided with better police/steward commands.

      There has been a lot of pisstaking of Hibs, their fans, their cup record for a long time. How the overspill of emotion -particularly with an ending like that – wasn’t expected, is where I believe the main error to lie.

    29. David says:

      If Hibs get punished then Rangers deserved the same punishment and more for the sectarianism on show.

    30. Jake Gittes says:

      Pretty decent analysis Stuart.

      Fact Hibs fans invading the pitch, while understandable in an emotionally charged moment was wrong. The subsequent vandalism too was inexcusable.

      Fact, a few hundred Hibs fans did have even darker motives. Some clearly did assault Rangers players and try to goad their fans into a physical confrontation. This was even more serious than the Pitch damage going on 60 yards behind.

      A few hundred Rangers fans then took the bait and the melee ensued. Rangers defence of this is, as you say, does not hold any water.

      Your argument that many Rangers fans sectarian chanting before and during these events in setting a context for what happened at the end is interesting and debatable.

      But there is no doubt that the “free speech” so beloved of the likes of James Kelly and Kezia Dugdale made a tense situation, incendiary

    31. Ken500 says:

      The majority are sick of this carry on and have been for many years. It is just a plight on Scottish society and just not right. No wonder the terraces are empty. 1.5% support. The unrelenting sectarianism in football in the Central Belt is discriminatory and demented. In affects the whole society and damages the economy, There are steps the Scottish Gov can take. They will take them. Any political Parties including, the ‘2nd rate rejects and NO Party’, will feel the angst of the majority (who did not vote for them), if they try and abolish the ‘Offensive Football Act’.

      This should have been tackled long ago. No wonder the Terraces are empty. It is a public disgrace that can no longer be tolerated.

      Any Council funding or encouraging Oranges Marches or the Orange Order are breaking the Law. It is a discriminate, elitist Organisation. It is an offence to fund such an Organisation with taxpayers money. The majority of taxpayers do not support this minority Organisation. Any Council funding or supporting the Orange Order are breaking the Law and in breach of the Code of Conduct in public representation. The representation of the people’s Act.

      In 2019 the tax man cometh. Again. HMRC the Unionist tax collector will not take any further excuses. The club will have to come up with the goods. Even Unionist politicians will not be able to stop them putting the boot in. Booted out of the game for unfair conduct. Not following the rules or playing the game. Everyone else is paying for it. Taxpayers money wasted once again.

      A few cynical, unscrupulous people betraying the punters, time and time again. Lining their pockets with public money and tax evasion. The problem will solve it’s self and self combust. No wonder the terraces are empty. No business case and no marketable product. Just the hard core remain. Taking the Punters for suckers. Up to their eyes in reconstructed debt for the sake of a corrupt few people and a bunch of overpaid, fake prima donnas.

      The saga is not over yet. Cheats never win. The final result. Booted out again. Some people never change. Or move with the times. Sectarianism and bigotry is over. It is against the Law. It will not
      longer be tolerated by the majority. Any Organisation who tolerates it are finished. Sing ‘Jackanory’
      that’s about the level of support and give it a break.

    32. Robert Peffers says:

      The Rev Stu has it almost correctly covered with one small exception.

      There can be little doubt the sectarian singing by a large section of the Rangers support is a threatening action. Itis meant to cow the opposition team and their supporters.

      It is, without doubt an incitement to violence and affects both lots of supporters. It sets the tone even before the game begins.

      That, normal behavioural situation of games involving Rangers, means Hibs supporters were already subjected to at least 100 minutes of sectarian incitement before trouble broke out.

      That the football authorities, Police Scotland, certain political parties and assorted broadcasters & MSM in general not only ignore that routine sectarian incitement to violence tells the real story of the totally unacceptable behaviour of both sets of fans.

      The initial Rangers sectarian chanting was the blue touch paper being lit on the squib. If no one had tried to hold onto the squib then no one would have had their fingers burned.

      As several commenters have said. Docking points for every instance of sectarian chants, or sectarian banners, would wipe out sectarianism at football in one season.

    33. scotspine says:

      Nick Heller.

      I thought that it was the Hibs and Rangers fans that were responsible for the pitch invasion and subsequent fighting, not the Police.

      What other “sporting” event requires Police present because “fans” are prone to fighting with each other?

      Utterly sick of football and the fuds who blame everyone else for the poor behaviour of the “fans”

    34. BJ says:

      Godstar says:
      23 May, 2016 at 6:01 am

      Very confusing for a child if anti sectarianism is taught in school and the exact opposite is practised at home.

      Some children are brainwashed from birth. You see babies weeks old dressed up in clown outfits to blend in with whatever regalia the parent is wearing usually with the obligatory team scarf to finish off the look and then on to Facebook for adulation and fame.

      By the time the child gets to school he has already picked (or been forced fed) what side he/ she has to follow.

      The SFA are cowards and like politics it’s all about money and power. The SFA will do Sweet F.A.

    35. Martin Richmond says:

      “The singling out of individual journalists for vilification puts their safety at risk and is as criminally irresponsible”

      “…almost certainly penned by the demented former Daily Record hack turned PR man Jim Traynor…”

      Compare and contrast readers.

    36. Andy Collins says:

      I’m a Rabgers fan but also an independence supporter. I hate the bigotry, hate the union but I wish to god people like yourself would learn to just shut up and stop producing utter crap like this as it does nothing other than to show hatred towards Rangers. There was not a minority of Hibs fans who goaded and caused violence, there was a minority of Rangers fans who entered the field of play however if ANY team had seen there players and officials being attacked by thousands of opposition fans then they would have reacted the same. I’m a member of the SNP and I too felt the FM tweet was ill judged. Yes her hubby is a hibbie but to ignore what they did was totally wrong. She should have been more concerned with condemning there fans than congratulating the team it saying nothing at all. Finally if you were for once to spend as much time having a go at other teams fans in Scotland for the sectarian disgusting songs that they sing all the time you might get taken more seriously. Yes the up to our knees etc is from the dark ages and needs to be stamped out but so do a lot of “folk” songs as one team in scotland like to refer to them. Grow up and you will get a lot more respect

    37. Ken500 says:

      The Scorpion and the frog. The (non) Greens. Scorpios.

      A Rangers lout indecently assaulted a young female in another town, going about their lawful business. They are escorted and bussed out of town because of their disgusting behaviour. Known troublemakers, everywhere they go. Especially in Glasgow, The management who encourage the performance and behaviour are a disgrace. The disgraceful face of Unionism. Keeping people In poverty to leech off of them. Encouraging bigotry, violence and sectarianism. The taxpayers have to pick up the bill for their wanton behaviour. Their days are numbered. 2019.

      Any docking of points would put the Clubs out the door. Football would be finished in Scotland. There would be no clubs functioning. There is no provision in Scottish Law or the legal system for
      collective punishment. There is no collective punishment in the political system. The no existent ‘3rd rate and NO’ Party can nearly win, even after being comprehensively voted out.. Not playing the game. Or fair.

    38. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It was there for all to see what was likely to happen.”

      This is pure hindsight. Hibs won a major trophy (the League Cup) not long ago. Clubs have recently won the first trophies of their entire existence. (Ross County, Inverness CT, St Johnstone.) Cups have been won in dramatic late circumstances. None resulted in pitch invasions. It’s only happened three times in over 100 years and every previous occasion was an Old Firm game. There was absolutely no reason to expect it.

    39. Fingal says:

      Hey Rev,

      I must be in the minority here… I quite enjoyed watching the outpouring of elation at the final whistle. I don’t believe that many, if any Hibs fans’ first thought would have been to lamp a Ranger player, so I wonder if the folks involved in violence had their allegiances elsewhere or had been provoked themselves. Whatever the reason, a tiny minority should not be allowed to tar the massive peaceful but excited majority.

      Ripping up the turf and causing damage is out of order, no question, though again I see that as being fuelled by the significance of the occasion.

      In my opinion, you are part of the problem with your constant insistence that Rangers fans should be reminded of their club’s financial woes. Sticking ‘Rangers’ in inverted commas is blatant goading. Football is deeper than the name of a company and pointing out something that is technically true does you no favours when speaking in the context of club history and fan passion.

    40. mealer says:

      It was the best cup final for years.An excellent match and though I’m not a Hibs fan I was delighted to see them win against the Old Firm.Its fine to see other clubs getting a shottie.I would agree with Revs précis of the thing.The consequences of the pitch invasion etc will,and ought to be financially disastrous for Hibs.It could make the difference between promotion and staying down.Something for their over exuberant fans to reflect on.

      Rangers fans setting off flares,singing offensive and illegal songs then invading the pitch will have serious implications too.Perhaps this whole affair will have a positive outcome if it makes the Ibrox board get a grip of themselves and their club.

      Celtic fans singing songs about “xxxs’ Fenian army ” should result in a points deduction or exclusion from the competition.

      Football fans throughout Scotland should get in touch with their own clubs and tell them what we think about bigotry and the sanctions we expect them to make.Theres no point girning about it amongst ourselves.We can’t leave it all for the “good” fans of problem clubs to sort out.The game belongs to all of us.We all have a responsibility to sort it.Tell your chairman.

    41. Lemon says:

      This piece could have been printed in the MSM. Front page picture is of a Hibee being kicked whilst on the ground, presumably by a Rangers fan, just to set the tone for the whole piece. Then the 1st 2 points of the article correctly blame the Hibs fans. Why not use a picture of a Hibs fan attacking a Rangers player ? or breaking the goals ?
      When the Daily Mail or the Express do this kind of thing you jump right on it but when there is a Rangers bad line you become a hypocrite.

    42. heedtracker says:

      Another really good read. Glasgow and Scotland have to ask why hard core tory carpetbaggers like Tomkins, are popping out from their university ivory towers to pour petrol on the flames.

    43. heedtracker says:

      Why not use a picture of a Hibs fan attacking a Rangers player ? or breaking the goals ?”

      Because from now on its going to be the exact opposite, pouring out of Pacific Quay, Daily Record etc, at a guess.

    44. Martin says:

      Agree with most of that but the minute Hibs scored in 90th minute, I said to my daughter who was watching game with me “There’s going to be a pitch invasion here”. Over a century of failure and you suddenly have the prize with a last minute header from the captain. It was a dead cert. It should have been anticipated. Hampden should have been flooded with stewards and police when that happened. There was plenty available after the invasion.

      Other than that bang on

    45. Thomas says:

      As for seeing the pitch invasion coming, could anyone predict a Hibs equaliser with ten minutes to go then an injury time winner, all happening at the Hibs end of the stadium? Pitch invasion understandable but predictable?

    46. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Why not use a picture of a Hibs fan attacking a Rangers player ?

      It was the best picture. If I’d had a good one of Hibs fans (like the one of snarling Hibees on the crossbar from the cover of the Sunday Post) I’d have used it, but I didn’t. I needed the broken-goals and Wallace-attack pics for points 2 and 3.

    47. Bill says:

      Are you saying Scotland should have another debate about another taboo subject?

    48. Bill says:

      I’ve got a great idea, televised games only, no fans at all. They could watch the game in the pubs.

      Oh wait, that’d mean they would be pissed, stupid idea anyway.

    49. Thomas says:

      ‘re alcohol at football matches.

      I’m not against the idea as such, but think it’s a sad state of affairs when adults can’t go 90 minutes, or enjoy a sporting occasion without a plastic cup of warm flat beer in their hand.

    50. Macart says:

      Great dissection Rev.

    51. Bill says:

      Well said Thomas.

      They need to go talk to their GP about an alcohol problem.

      I’d happily see alcohol banned from ALL sports events, it has no place other than in a licensed premises behind the threshold.

    52. Disco Dave says:

      Not sure if it’s been mentioned already but think Jim Traynor left his communications role at Ibrox some time ago?

    53. Bill says:

      Is breathalising for alcohol at the turnstile an option, surely we can engineer that. Fans bring their own paper tube that comes with their ticket. Blow into device, if over a set limit then reject. It won’t solve all problems but it’s a start.

      And before anyone starts, I have stewarding experience at at football stadium. We do visually look for inebriated persons at the entry points, just like bouncing a bar/club but we’re human and not perfect.

    54. heedtracker says:

      Bill says:
      23 May, 2016 at 8:11 am
      Are you saying Scotland should have another debate about another taboo subject?

      Debate is not the intent. Its all to smear the Scotland region, by red and blue tory yoonsters and ofcourse our chums south of the border.

      Rancid the Graun on Hosie resignation

      “This is the third scandal to hit the SNP Westminster group. Two of its MPs, Michelle Thomson and Natalie McGarry, have resigned the SNP whip after coming separately under police investigation for alleged financial impropriety.

      Ian Murray, the shadow Scottish secretary for Labour, said Hosie had made the right decision, but added: “This incident exposes something more significant about the SNP at Westminster. Instead of attacking each other, SNP MPs should be focused on delivering for their constituents.

      “Last year the SNP told us their MPs would be stronger for Scotland, but just 12 months on, many have been a source of real embarrassment. This incident hasn’t just seen them let down their party, but they are letting down the people of Scotland who voted for them and expect much better behaviour.”

      John Lamont, the Scottish Conservative chief whip at Holyrood, said: “Stewart Hosie’s decision was inevitable given the circumstances. This episode has been another embarrassment to the SNP MPs group and people who voted for them last year have every right to question what has happened since.”

      Embarrassment of Scotland, almost half rancid Graun’s report too.

    55. One_Scot says:

      I’ve got a good idea, why don’t we get someone like James Kelly and his ‘Better Together’ Yoons to spearhead the removal of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, that should make things better. #MightBeWorthRethinkingYouBunchOfMuppets.

    56. Juteman says:

      The initial pitch invasion by Hibs was an emotional outpouring, happy, and can be understood by most football fans imo.
      Everything that happened during the match, and after the original invasion was premeditated.

    57. Sheryl Hepworth says:

      This trouble and division for supposed religious reasons belong in history and if I could I would make sure that any sectarian trouble at a match would bring about firstly a fine for the clubs concerned followed by the promise of ‘any more and you’ll play behind locked gates’ The threat of losing money SHOULD bring the clubs up short and make them sort this out! Why should innocent people who want to watch a GAME be put through this stupidity? A lifetime ban on specific ”fans” who are identified as being ‘in on it’ and the promise of locked gates should be put into place by the weak SFA NOW!! Stop this before it goes any further and drag these cretins into the 21st century!

    58. Brian McKay says:

      Let me first of all say that I’m a Hibs fans and I was at the game – not on the pitch though. Let me also say I most definitely do not condone any of the aggressive behaviour that occurred. However …..

      1. As one of the other respondents mentioned, this whole thing was entirely avoidable. It was surely obvious that, if Hibs won, there would be an attempt at invading the pitch. If you look at the scene as the final whistle approached, you’ll see a sparse line of stewards facing the fans. There was never going to be enough to stop an invasion. Yet, later, once the police had cleared the pitch, there was a solid, unbroken line of police protecting the pitch area. Had they been in much the same position at the final whistle, the invasion could have been prevented.

      2. Whilst, the Hibs fan had no right being on the pitch, the vast majority were simply there to celebrate and had no thought of causing trouble. Unfortunately, a relatively small number felt it necessary to go up to the Rangers end and goad the Rangers fans, but so what? Football fans goad each other all the time, it doesn’t mean there has to be an aggressive response. The Rangers fans could have stayed in the stands, booed the Hibs fans, sang some of their odious songs, or any amount of other reactions, whilst remaining in the stands. They had no reason to be on the pitch and had they stayed where they were, most of the trouble would have been avoided. To claim they were there to protect the Rangers players just doesn’t stand up.

      3. I honestly don’t know whether any Rangers players were attacked, jostled or in any other way, abused. I was just too far away to see from the stands and I’ve yet to see any firm video evidence. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just that I’ve not seen it yet. However, I do know that some of the claims that have been made are utter drivel. Claims that Kenny Miller lay unconscious in the centre circle and that Lee Wallace was beaten to the ground and kicked and punched are belied by the fact that both are seen on the television, seconds after the final whistle, calmly walking off the pitch and down the tunnel, completely unmarked.

      4. The hysterical response from Rangers did no one any good, least of all themselves. The moral high ground just isn’t available to a club that has done nothing to weed out the fans who continually sing abusive and aggressive sectarian songs. “Up to our knees in Fenian blood”? Pot and kettle come to mind.

      5. Exaggeration doesn’t help either and Stewart isn’t immune from that. 10,000 fans on the pitch? Nonsense! Have a look at the stands when the fans are on the pitch – they still look pretty full. If half of our fans had been on the pitch, the stands would have looked much more sparsely populated. Not sure how anyone can make a definitive calculation, but to my eyes, 2,000 at the most. 2,000 too many, though!

      In conclusion, I’d rather none of the after match scenes had not happened, but nothing is going to take away from the sheer joy of winning the Scottish Cup after such a long wait. GGTTH!

    59. seanair says:

      OK I admit to being a Hibs fan and wish all the Hibs supporters had stayed in the stands and the Cup would have done a half-lap of honour.
      However, to hear the rubbish coming from Rangers is sickening. This is the club whose supporters have created mayhem in Scotland (and England and Europe). Name any team in Scotland whose fans have NOT been troubled at games, on buses and trains, in the streets, by Rangers fans.
      If Rangers are looking for sympathy in Scotland they will be looking in vain.
      There will be an inquiry of course, but it must include the firing of flares(twice) by Rangers fans and the singing of sectarian chats by guess who?

    60. One_Scot says:

      Will never actually know, but I’m convinced that if the situation was exactly the same but with roles reversed, the Yoon media would just be talking about the Rangers victory.

    61. John says:

      Well Mr. James Kelly , what is your next move ?, it’s your type that keep this kind of thing going . Obviously some Scots are still Neanderthals , they need the species that have evolved to teach them how to become more civilised .A day of shame for Scotland .

    62. farrochie says:

      There should exist an operational plan for the match. It should cover foreseeable risks, from minor to major. Flares, assaults on players/managers, pitch invasions have all happened in recent history. Hope some journalist can get a hold of the plan.

    63. Effijy says:

      Rangers do have some decent fans who enjoy football and want to support their team. I was one of them once, but having witnessed too many violent sectarian bigots with limited I.Q. Shouting, swearing, and threatening opposing fans, men, woman and children, I just cannot support that team any more.

      We are in the 21st centaury, we are in economic turmoil, we need to protect the Health Service, expand our Educational support systems, generate jobs, save our environment, and these Neanderthals want to focus their sorry lives on a battle that took place some 226 years ago?

      My last match involved an old firm charity match with former players. I took a Catholic friend and our kids as my treat.
      The Sectarian songs and full on 4 letter words
      from the imbeciles around me, meant leaving early as the kids became extremely uncomfortable, and the adults became ashamed to have exposed them to this hostile venom.

      The procession of crooks who have run the club in recent years, and the dreadful quality of football seems to provide further proof that those regularly attending Ibrox
      are there only to vent their hate and to look for confrontation.

      The establishment such as the Police, BBC, Daily Redcoat, and the Rangers board are all now playing cover up and refusing to shoulder responsibility due to the hooligans carrying Union Jacks and being No voters.

      Why didn’t the police attempt to remove or isolate the smaller number of Rangers fans?
      They instead headed straight over to form a line and kettle Hibs fans into one half of the field, as if the other half should belong to Rangers Fans.

      Many of the police officers got to the half way line having walked past Rangers & Hibs fans throwing punches.

      The Hibs vandalism must be condemned, but the major crime was the Violence generated by Rangers Fans who entered the field just to start a fight.

      If Rangers claim that their fans went on to protect their players, can anyone show me footage of any one fan who actually pulled a Hibs fan off of a Rangers player?
      It just didn’t happen and it reveals the morals and standards of those who are currently in control at Rangers.

      The BBC and Daily Redcoat just don’t want to show what actually happened and the Westminster Parties at Holyrood want to let them sign whatever bigoted songs that they like, while in a drunken stupor.
      All for the sake of SNP bad and sod the best interests of the general public.

      I await to hear of the many prosecutions that Must Follow
      as the Police must have arrested many thugs brawling in the middle of the football park in broad daylight.
      I also expect appeals for names of those that are clearly
      caught on camera participating in assault and battery.

      It just couldn’t be possible that £100,000’s of Policing costs at the match didn’t capture a significant number of
      Thugs, and the prosecution services couldn’t fail to use
      all this modern technology to identify the culprits who
      escaped on the day?

      Rangers of course will expel 100’s of those prosecuted from attending another match, and the SFA will fine Rangers for not controlling their fans?

      No, it will be much easier to blame Independence supporters
      and Thugs, Media and UK politicians can all have an easy life maintaining the status quo.
      ce

    64. Fro says:

      It has happened before though. 2005 at Easter Road. Rangers fans invaded the pitch in celebration. Goaded the Hibs fans who showed remarkable restraint and eventually the police horses were brought on to restore order.

    65. Dan Huil says:

      Rangers should play in England.

    66. I wasn’t going to comment on this.
      Since the resounding victory of the Conservative and Unionist Ruth Davidson WATP These Colours Don’t Run ‘Professor’ Adam Tomkins and The queen’s Eleven Murdo Fraser by garnering 22% of the vote at the SGE, which seasonally adjusted, means ,according to the MSM and BBC Unionist Scotland, that there is no longer a case for Independence, I assume that the 20,000 or so Rangers supporters singing the Billy Boys was a ‘small minority’?
      I referred to these Knuckledraggers as WATP Tomkins’ and The Queens Eleven Fraser’s Brownshirts the other day.
      I tuned in late to get the tail end of the tussle; I couldn’t stomach listening to this litany of hatred in 21st Century Scotland for 2 hours.
      (I’m coming to the Hibernians in a minute, honest.)
      The BBC commentators, at 80 minutes were speculating on Rangers In Europe, the increased War Chest that their manager would be getting, and the lure of European football attracting Big Names to Ibrox.
      Meanwhile a game was raging below.
      It was apparent that the Match Commander had also given up on a Hibs fight back. Most of the police, and Mounted Police were at the Rangers end.

      If they indeed had triumphed as the BBC had already decided, would the long suffering , much put upon, ‘small minority’ of Rangers diehards Have invaded the pitch?
      Four years in a Wilderness of their own making may have erupted into Triumphalism, it may be argued.
      There is a view that there is always an undercurrent of threatened violence if the Old Firm don’t get their way.
      David Torrance and others imply that Scotland is dividing along Unionist and Nationalist lines, just like Ulster.
      There will be civil unrest and violence on N Ireland lines if , sorry, when, we opt for Self Determination.

      BBC Radio Jordanhill dismissed the ‘Billy Boys’ cancer as ‘ninety minute bigots’ the other day. Well that’s all right then. Not.
      It was Hibs turn to disgrace themselves yesterday, of that there is no doubt.

      Same sense of outrage and injustice, just a different colour of allegiance.

      There are five million or so of us, who want to get on with our lives, without Establishment figures in politics and Football pandering to these morons, by threatening large scale social unrest unless we let 40 or 50 thousand functioning sociopaths have their way.
      The Tories actively courted this mob, and I’m sure Tomkins and Fraser were pleased as punch at the massed choir of hatred yesterday.
      I love football.
      Somewhere in among all that hatred and bile and Hibernian mass civil disobedience, a fairly good game of football was reportedly played out.

      Yet the Dead Tree Scrolls (not unsurprisingly Brewer’s Droop, with Clegg of the Record and Andrews of the Courier who were sleazing on about Hosie again, ‘nudge nudge, wink wink, say no moah!’ avoided talk of football and violence. OBFA? Whit me?)have a field day, covering the violence, the break down in Society, and Scotland’s shame, Hibs beating Rangers at footie.
      Orange Walks, Hibernian Marches, Green Brigades, Blue Legions, daft wee Day Glo military uniforms, marching on the Queen’s Highway, do not break ranks, if we don’t get our effing way we will riot.
      Meanwhile five million plus of us are trying to get on with our lives.
      2/3 of a pint of warm lager at £4.50 a kick would have been a nice little earner for the clubs, and possibly taken the warlike tension out of the game. Not.
      Kezia Dugdale what are ye like?

      OBFA? Obviously a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. Aye, Richt.
      The day we let a bunch of psychos numbering in the tens of thousands now, and the Dead Tree Scrollers who sell them ‘papers, rule our lives is the day civic society folds.
      As for Regan? Resign.

    67. Cinaed says:

      Deduction of points. For violence, for sectarian singing – the works.

      A few seasons of the best behaved teams winning, rather than the best teams, and you’ll soon see everyone concerned exercising some self-restraint.

    68. ScottieDog says:

      @Jim Fleming
      And subsequently in the last few minutes of internationals now you see the stewards etc getting ready to repel any attempt at a pitch invasion.

      Depressing end to a wonderful game and result.

    69. ronnie anderson says:

      Is that the same James Traynor PR man fae Airdrie born (catholic) he should be the 1st to complain about singing Up to the Knees in Fenian Blood, but there again James was never a titan in Jounalism (titan as in moon) dense.

    70. Truth says:

      I was in Manchester as a neutral observer. I was working in Birmingham at the time and took a last minute decision to take the train up to Manchester after work.

      I watched the game in a bar and missed the carry on outside. (The big screen in the main square failed.)

      The train back south was standing room only and was filled with Rangers fans virtually all of whom were English.

      From their demeanour and injuries it was clear that many of them had been involved in the rioting.

      To this day it’s not something I’ve seen discussed anywhere and it is just assumed that the rioting fans were all Scots who’d come down from Glasgow. This was not the case.

      I am not an apologist for Rangers. I frankly can’t stand the club and was pleased Hibs stopped them winning the cup. I do however like a fair representation of the facts. And that is not a slight on the Rev either. I’m not sure how well the above information is known.

    71. HandandShrimp says:

      I watched the last 20 minutes of the match at a wee afternoon do with some friends (not a huge footie fan and support neither team). We were just catching up out of curiosity really.

      The Hibs fans should not have invaded the pitch and the police might have got there a couple of minutes sooner. As we watched the consensus was that it was just over the top celebrations. A few bams (every team has some) goaded some Rangers bams and there was handbags for a couple of minutes at the top end of the park. The thousands and the Hibs were just jumping up and down and I doubt they could see the exchange of hand bags.

      The police separated the fans and put a line up the park. No one from either support tried to breach the line or cause any more trouble. Order was restored, the cup presented and that was the end. There was far more trouble in Glasgow town that Saturday night than there was on the park with shop windows kicked in and general unpleasantness. That is a separate matter and the culprits may have watched the match in a pub rather than at Hampden.

      So far so not so odd for a cup final. The utter pish I have heard and read since has been frankly bizarre. I am sure that I heard Gordon Smith say on the radio that this was worse than the 1980 match. No it wasn’t. That was a reenactment of WW2. There is no fecking comparison at all. Also the blaming of everybody by Rangers from the SFA, Press, Media, Police and even Nicola speaks more of a total bunker mentality at Ibrox rather than a reflection of the events on the day.

      No one thinks a few dozen Hibs bams fighting a few dozen Rangers bams was big or clever. They were both a load of bams. The rest was not that big deal. Both clubs need to identify the bams in question and ban them.

      Probably my last on this as I feel my interest waning already.

    72. Truth says:

      @RonnieAnderson

      Aye Ronnie it is the same Traynor.

      The very same one that said he didn’t support the new Airdrie as it’s not the same club as the old one.

      Oh the irony.

    73. Brian Powell says:

      It does seem very strange, the pitch invasion by the Hibs fans. It would be interesting to see footage of the progression of the invasion.

      Was it a small first group which then encouraged other fans to go along or just a rush of all?

      They must have known it would be the big news story. Is it the old Scottish tradition of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

      Hopefully there will be sentences of a few years for the instigators.

    74. Bob Mack says:

      Where to start? Regarding some of the above comments, firstly Jim Trayor has his own PR firm which represents Rangers even though he left the organisation.It was his statement,

      Another comment believes the Rev is biased against Rangers. Here lies the problem.
      My family has supported Rangers through generations ,and indeed my great
      grandfather played right back for them many years ago. Nobody ,but nobody can tell me that their support does not have a strong anti catholic element ,just as nobody needs to tell me about an element of Celtic supporters being anti protestant. I have lived with it all my life and experienced it first hand at work,at matches and in social events.

      It is a malignancy ,fostered by the clubs to improve their income streams,as much
      as it is now being fostered by the politicians to improve their voting prospects.

      I agree with points deductions for offences. Anyone wishing to repeal OBFA is certifiably insane following this debacle.Do we really want to open the door to more of this?

      The fans forums of Rangers and Hibs this morning tell quite a story,revelling in their “honour” at having put down markers for anyone stupid enough to challenge them.

      We have a beautiful country with elements of toxic waste and I don’t mean nuclear. What we have is religion, bigotry, and a sense of entitlement added together and mixed under the heading of football. Beautiful game attended by SOME ugly people.

    75. louis.b.argyll says:

      I know, I know,
      I am a silly boy,

      I know, I know,
      I know I make you cry,

      I sing this song,
      Although its dud,
      Pretending that it’s why,
      That I am a very silly boy.

      (traditional arrangement)

    76. Robert Louis says:

      The REAL point about the OBFA is simply this, it can be (but actually isn’t) the most useless piece of legislation in the world, but repealing it, as blue/red Tories AND greens want to do is beyond stupidity.

      Repealing it sends out one message to the thugs in Scottish football; go ahead, do what you want, you have the green light. It matters not if that isn’t ACTUALLY the case, it is the ‘message’ such people WILL choose to hear.

      By all means review the legislation, amend the legislation, make it better etc.. but repealing it sends out ALL the wrong signals.

      Murdo Fraser (who did for a short period appear to be the more level headed and mature side of Toryism in Scotland), is a stupid, stupid disgrace for sending that tweet. Credibility now zero. Perhaps he should go and visit some of the groups in Glasgow who look after the wives/children who are the victims of the sectarian thugs to which he so flagrantly gives succour.

    77. chris kilby says:

      Be interesting to see what impact (if any) this has on reckless and cynical attempts to repeal the OBFA.

    78. John H. says:

      Would it not be more accurate if they sang ‘We are the bully boys’? I’ll never understand the mentality of some of these fans. A relative of mine is a Rangers supporter, with some of the worst traits often associated with being a Rangers fan.

      The irony is that he is married to a catholic. Very odd.

    79. jim says:

      how can rangers sing there evil songs against my religion and the police do nothing but it what I have come to expect from Glasgow police it only a crime if they sing at celtic park

    80. Rob says:

      The hypocrisy of people on this is unbelievable. I have never once seen condemnation of Tartan Army running on pitch at Wembely in 1977. The amount of people pontificating on behaviour Hibs fans really have no understanding of context. Yes we have won league cup on two other occasions and neither of those involved pitch invasions. Other clubs have won it for first time without invading but I would suggest that none of the fans of those clubs have seen their team lose in final the number of times Hibs have. Or seen their team lose it in the last minutes of games as Hibs (so much so that the term ‘to Hibs it” is now used regularly by sports fans and commentators alike).

      I really wish they hadn’t piled onto the pitch at the end and the behaviour of those around Rangers players was out of order, and unfortunately this is now all people are talking about rather than the most exciting cup final in recent years. As such I wouldn’t condone fans going on the pitch but I can certainly understand why they did.

    81. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “to my eyes 2,000 at the most”

      If you think there were only 2000 people on the pitch you must think there were a billion at the Yes march on Calton Hill.

      https://youtu.be/5wAzIXNcTnY

      A crowd density of 1 person per square metre is low. Half of the Hampden pitch is 4125 square metres, plus there’s a huge area behind each goal. The pitch was packed well past the halfway line at the busiest point. 10,000 won’t be far off the mark.

    82. Bob Mack says:

      Incidentally my father’s family come from Kilmarnock and had an interest in yesterday’s play off against Falkirk.

      Perhaps you should be aware that in the dressing room the manager before the match had all the players singing to a certain famous “Ibrox” song as a means of psyching them up for the game. It is not isolated.

    83. ahundredthidiot says:

      Good piece Rev, but you missed an important point, which is why all these people turn up in the first place.

      Soccer is quite possibly the most boring sport on the planet outside of cricket.

      Serve me up another of those draw score results please….eh, no thanks. Segregation of fans and mob behaviour….eh, no thanks. And people take their kids! Well, maybe those parents should be getting a wee interview from social services.

      Imagine what humans in a few hundred years will make of us, I despair.

    84. Haggishunter says:

      There was actually a sea of Saltires and lion rampants in parts of the Rangers crowd, something the television would not show.

      Hows the repealing of laws again sectarianism coming along?
      Hey Murdo Fraser, how do you wish to tackle tribal hatred? Oops forgot, you want to promote it eh.

    85. McHaggis69 says:

      Here is a free lesson to Mr Traynor on how to do a dignified and professional press release –
      “Firstly, Rangers Football Club would take the opportunity to congratulate Hibernian on their success after a hard fought and exciting final. Sadly though, we would yet again have to apologise for the behavior of fans throughout and particularly after the game. Sectarian songs will not be tolerated by the club and we condemn those who sing them. We hope that Hibernian can join us in condemning the after match scenes. The chaos caused by fans essentilaly being out of control can and does lead to dreadful situations. We take no pleasure in confirming some Rangers fans chose to involve themsleves in the chaos. We look forward to Hibernians response, along with the SFA and the local,police and security arrangements which we would suggest require a review or investigation of some time.
      Once again though, congratulations to our rivals on the day.”

    86. louis.b.argyll says:

      Showed my son the Murdo Fraser tweet..

      He said..
      Aren’t the politicians trying to stamp out bigotry?

      I said..
      Only some of them..

      I think he (Fraser) should be reported to the standards authorities. The guy is nasty, vile.. and even worse,a Scottish tory-bum-boy

    87. Tinto Chiel says:

      Some excellent comments here.

      I am baffled as to why the RFC statement had a go at Tom English: when I heard him on RS he clearly condemned the behaviour of the Hibs fans.

      At the time I thought it strange that, for all the references to shameful scenes, there were none shown. Admittedly I was in a pub where the clown was flicking between BBC and Sky, but surely if it was “like World War One out there” as one presenter said, this would have been shown.

      Motherwell still await their punishment for the pitch invasion, since the SFA blamed the club for insufficient stewarding/policing. Will the SFA take responsibility for their own role in Saturday’s affair?

      The Yoons have stirred up sectarian feelings recently and I’m not looking forward to Rangers’ return. I foresee more trouble next year unless there is an automatic points deduction for a team whose fans enter the field of play. If this happened in a cup game, the club would forfeit the tie. There was a shameful incident in the 70s when Motherwell went two up in a cup game at Fir Park. There was a huge pitch invasion by Rangers fans and disgraceful scenes of intimidation. Rangers won the tie and there were no recriminations.

      The reason these penalties are not in place is because the SFA know this might affect Rangers or Celtic more than any others.

      It wouldn’t surprise me if Hibs were suspended from next year’s cup competition or were not allowed to play in the Europa Cup , plus a big fine. Maybe RFC could get their European place? Scottish football has always been corrupt and the SFA’s general, perpetual incompetence has reduced our game to its present state.

      Once again, congratulations to Hibs and hope you get promotion next year.

    88. Proud Cybernat says:

      Hello, hello – are there any Rangers fans here? Please can you explain to me in an intelligent and rational manner why you wish to be up to your knees in fenian blood, blood of your fellow countrymen (and women)? Can any Rangers fan explain this to me in a sensible, logical manner?

      “It’s just a song; a part of oor culture.”

      It’s not our culture. Its ‘ure cult’. Your sect. It’s sectarianism. It’s blind, bigoted intolerance. It’s a song of hate. Why, as Rangers fans, do you define yourselves by what you HATE and not by what you love?

      Why? Any Rangers fan care to answer?

    89. louis.b.argyll says:

      There will be no ban on Hibs in Europe.

      They won the match, fair and square.

    90. ronnie anderson says:

      The Police plans failed. If they had brought on the Uniforms earlier there would,nt have been a pitch invasion,police & all football clubs know who the casuals are but dont shame them by banning orders.

      Football will die a death in Scotland (through pricing) or lack of new supporters,no sane Parents would take their children to these games, or any other game where idiots rule the roost.

      Scottish Gov should now ammend they,re bill to include all Football clubs & they,re Directors to act against those disruptive eliments & casuals (who are well know) both to the clubs themselves & Police.

      Now whitch newspaper will be the 1st to publish photo,s & shame those involved.

    91. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The hypocrisy of people on this is unbelievable. I have never once seen condemnation of Tartan Army running on pitch at Wembely in 1977. The amount of people pontificating on behaviour Hibs fans really have no understanding of context. Yes we have won league cup on two other occasions and neither of those involved pitch invasions. Other clubs have won it for first time without invading but I would suggest that none of the fans of those clubs have seen their team lose in final the number of times Hibs have.”

      What sort of piss-poor excuse is that? Other fans have seen their team lose cruelly in the last seconds. They’ve seen their teams robbed by outrageous refereeing decisions. They’ve seen them lift the first trophy of their entire history. They’ve seen them win or lose to their bitterest rivals in all sorts of circumstances. Hearts fans must have been completely delirious when they humped your lot 5-1. And you know what all those fans on all those days did? They stayed off the damn pitch.

      Wembley 1977 was an act of violent thuggery, but it happened in the context of the time, when football supporters were much rowdier. It would be seen very differently now.

    92. Let me just say this, that unless you have worn the Sillitoe tartan, and had the misfortune to be caught up in a major disturbance at a football match, it’s only then that you realise how difficult it is to police the disorder.
      Hindsight is all very well,so sure the match commander could have strengthened the pitch cordon at the Aitkenhead Road end, but how was he, or she, to know that it would be Hibernian that would score, and not Rangers? He, or she, has only a finite number of officers at their disposal, so it’s a matter of judgement where best to deploy the resources under their command.
      All policing is consensual, especially when dealing with large numbers, so you are dependent on the vast majority behaving themselves, and while on Saturday no doubt most of the supporters did so, a large minority did not, and therefore you had the trouble that then ensued.
      Personally, once the situation had arisen, I thought the police dealt with it in an exemplary manner, and as others have commented, brought the disorder under control without there occurring any further flashpoints.
      While the authorities will no doubt learn lessons from this debacle, it’s the people who caused the trouble in the first place who have to look at themselves, and their behaviour, and decide whether it is acceptable, which obviously it is not. Will they? I’m afraid not, going by past examples, and I’m sure the boys and girls in blue will have to deal with similar problems in the future.

    93. Roland Smith says:

      Congrats Rev, far more balanced report on the shameful activities on both sides that detracted from a great football spectacle.

    94. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “In my opinion, you are part of the problem with your constant insistence that Rangers fans should be reminded of their club’s financial woes. Sticking ‘Rangers’ in inverted commas is blatant goading. Football is deeper than the name of a company and pointing out something that is technically true does you no favours when speaking in the context of club history and fan passion.”

      But that’s the whole point. The death of the original Rangers was the chance to leave the “history” behind and start with a clean slate, free of all the baggage of bigotry. As long as fans are allowed to cling to that old dead sectarian club, the sectarianism will never go away. The myth of “Rangers Forever” is a tacit encouragement of the scum faction.

      Rangers didn’t suffer “financial woes”. They died. They no longer exist. There’s no need for their poison to affect the new club, but indulging them in the resurrection fantasy will make sure it always does.

    95. Brian says:

      I am a Hibby and was at the game (but not on the pitch).

      Firstly, I agree fans on pitch is never acceptable and particularly when everyone knew the “Rangers” end would be even more raging than usual.

      But, apart from a couple of violent nutters who will be rightly punished and maybe a hundred or so idiots who went up the wrong end, the pictures speak for themselves: a spontaneous outpouring of shock, joy and every other emotion you could cram into those few seconds.

      To finally win the damn thing and in that manner was the most unbelievable and amazing feeling.

      Spoiled? Nah … Best. Day. Ever.

    96. Robert Peffers says:

      @BJ says: 23 May, 2016 at 7:24 am:

      ” … By the time the child gets to school he has already picked (or been forced fed) what side he/ she has to follow.”

      Hers’s a joke that was told in the playground when I was at school. BTW: I’m 80 next birthday.

      Mrs O’Reilly tells her parish priest that her four month old child is speaking already. Father O’Malley doesn’t believe her and calls to see for himself.

      He looks at the baby in the cot and then picks up a pear from a fruit bowl on the table. He holds it up and says to the baby, “Pear”, and sure enough the wee one repeats, “Pear”.

      “That’s amazing”, says the priest and reaches into the fruit bowl and lifts out an orange saying, “Orange”, to which the baby reply’s, “Bastard”!

      So around 70 odd years ago the fact that it wasn’t the schools that indoctrinated the sectarian children but at home by their mother’s knee that did.

      Yet still, today, we have those who would close down RC schools while ignoring the very obvious flaw in that argument that, in fact, since the RC schools joined the state education system it has been illegal for any school to reject a child’s registration on the grounds of religion.

      Not only that but until fairly recent years the so called non-denominational schools were factually Protestant Faith Schools. I know this because I come from a line of mixed Protestant/RC married families.

      We kids attended either the best school, or the nearest one, irrespective of what faith it purported to be. I never ever witnessed a teacher attempt to influence any child towards any particular Christian sect.

      Met lots of sectarian pupils though, being treated as an RC or non-Protestant, “Non-Dom”, Schools and a, “Proddy”, at RC schools.

      Perhaps that is why I have hated bullies my entire life. May also be who no one got away with bullying anywhere near me. I’m wee, broad and tough as old boots.

    97. Almannysbunnet says:

      Sky sports news, scrolling across the screen.
      Rangers: Any attempt to attach blame to our supporters will not be tolerated by this club.

      The message is clear. SFA mind your step. MSM you have been warned. Arrogant fcuks!

    98. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “There was not a minority of Hibs fans who goaded and caused violence, there was a minority of Rangers fans who entered the field of play however if ANY team had seen there players and officials being attacked by thousands of opposition fans then they would have reacted the same.”

      What a giant heap of shite. Yes it WAS a minority of Hibs fans goading, yes it WAS a minority of “Rangers” fans who reacted, no it’s not true that any other fans would have reacted the same. It’s happened countless times in even recent history and the other fans didn’t pile on and start punching.

      “Finally if you were for once to spend as much time having a go at other teams fans in Scotland for the sectarian disgusting songs that they sing all the time you might get taken more seriously.”

      Go and fuck off. This site has unequivocally and consistently condemned both sets of fans time after time after time after time for their No Surrender/Bobby Sands pish, and been abused relentlessly by Celtic fans whining that “singing about terrorist murderers isn’t sectarian” for it. Shove your blinkered glasses up your arse.

    99. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It wouldn’t surprise me if Hibs were suspended from next year’s cup competition or were not allowed to play in the Europa Cup. Maybe RFC could get their European place?”

      It would utterly amaze me. And as mindbogglingly incompetent as the SFA are, giving “Rangers” their place would be a step too insane even for them.

    100. Paula Rose says:

      I think the Match commander should have deployed all the available police around the perimeter wearing See-you-Jimmy hats, that would have sorted it.

    101. Ken500 says:

      The Unionists Press is also culpable for extending this mass disorder by corruption and lies going back years. Actively misreporting in order for tax evading Non Doms to corruptly line their pockets. Just like many of the Clubs illegally being supported by taxpayers money of those who have no interest in this major racket. Corruption, greed and illegal activity going hand in and with the political system. The punters and taxpayers fleeced by the corrupt, illegal business which breaks the rules and every other Law. They think they are above the Law. The ones who make the Law, break the Law and do not enforce the Law. Anarchy. Unionist land. The majority of people have had enough.

    102. Ken500 says:

      2019 The Unionist taxman cometh. HMRC To hoover up all the muck and residue. That will be the end of it. Amen.

    103. Roughian says:

      If the police are outside the stadium is this classed as public order therefore tax payer meets the cost?

      If police inside the stadium is this stewarding and SFA meets the cost?

      So police outside and only called in at last minute is a matter for SFA. Just sayin!!

    104. Macart says:

      @Almannysbunnet

      Quite a statement from them, but not a shocker.

      Last I checked though, no one forced anyone onto that pitch. No one forces people to use provocative behaviour, hurl insults, lift their hands in hatred, destroy other folks property or otherwise act abusively.

      If people were on that pitch doing any of the above, and I don’t care what colour of scarf they wore, then they are culpable.

      I don’t follow footie at all these days and its been many years since I even checked it out on telly. Gave it up as a bad deal because it had lost any semblence of entertainment. Too much money and too much tribalism for my taste. One look at the images above confirms that may have been a good decision on my part.

    105. Do The Rangers fans never get sick of the Establishment manipulating and using them,

      from the miserable hacks trying to goad a headline to Ruth Davidson`s `No Surrender` Tory party trying to destabilize and split Scotland and its citizens,

      `keep the natives fighting each other` while the Establishment rob Scotland
      blind`.

    106. Andrew McLean says:

      If the football authorities had balls, they would set aside the match, make it be replayed behind closed doors, no live TV, it to be broadcast at 11 pm on a Tuesday.

      Guaranteed they would be a rammy in the media, but in that one move you stop any recurrence ever.

      pitch invasion, players assaulted, our national stadium vandalised?, fuck right off, set aside the match.

      That’s what I would do. But then I am not a football compulsive obsessive.

    107. Glamaig says:

      Anybody know when and why Tomkins became a fan of Rangers? Was it after his abandonment of Republicanism and his move to the Tories?

    108. Dorothy Devine says:

      There are some complete morons on the Herald site – hope no-one here is tempted to join them and give more clicks to the posh Daily Record.

    109. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Rev –

      ‘predictable vacillation’??

      Sorry. Forgot to add blinking smiley.

      😉

    110. Big Jock says:

      Two seperate things summed up neatly Stu.

      One is pitch invasion which is a physical and emotional moment. Usually not planned and spontaneous. They should not been on the pitch end of.

      But the continual institutionalised anti Irish,anti Scottish anti Catholic agenda at Rangers. This is the route of the systemic problem. Rangers are a bigoted organistation. They incite and provoke at every game. Some of their fans are the dregs of society. Noone will shed a crocodile tear for their club or fans if they are damaged. Because they spend their life hating everyone! They even hate the first minister who has nothing to do with them or their fans. Are they going to ban everyone from ever talking about them. That sounds like a despotic institution.

      Today I am at work listening to their fans bleating about them being victims. I can’t speak up as a Catholic of Irish descent, about how they feel about me. Or why they hate Yes voters or the Scottish flag.

      These morons and their followers, moderate and hardline. Are all guilty of condoning the the bigotry every time they sit on a plastic seat without walking away in disgust. The minority excuse is just that an excuse. They sell bigotry like teacakes.

      Graeme Speirs is as bad. He tweeted that we have to live with the Billy Boys song. To me that is just wrong. He condemns but still supports. He is like many of their so called moderate fans.

    111. Tom says:

      Stuart
      I agree totally with Fingal. You are part of the problem with your insistance on everything “Rangers” is to do with unionism. You need to get out more. I’ve already posted on here about you alienating independence supporting Rangers (note no inverted commas)fans which you can bank on now, certainly me. What happened yesterday wasn’t pretty, but be clear, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, and Celtic have their fair share of casuals who are hell bent on causing trouble. Pitch invasions happen all over the world and other Scottish teams have been involved. You do a good impression of a racehorse when you “analyse” Rangers with your blinkers on. I wonder do you have a favourite football team or are you a so called “neutral”.
      Anyway any more of your completely biased analysing and I and my friends will be seeking other sites for our information

    112. smac1314 says:

      I stopped going to football because of the singing and I’m sure I’m not alone.
      The simple fact is that all of the clubs in Scottish football refuse to take responsibility for the actions of their supporters. Attempts have been consistently voted down to have the rules changed so that football punishments (closed door games, points lost) can be handed out. The people who run the football clubs in this country can see no further than the end of their nose and are slowly killing the game off.

    113. Bob Mack says:

      @Tom,

      Are you really ,honestly trying to tell me that Unionism has nothing to do with a large section of Rangers support? You cannot even handle just criticism. If you ignore and excuse what is in your midst you are part of the problem

    114. heedtracker says:

      You are part of the problem with your insistance on everything “Rangers” is to do with unionism. You need to get out more. I’ve already posted on here about you alienating independence supporting Rangers (note no inverted commas)fans which you can bank on now, certainly me.”

      So why are UKOK zealots like Prof Tomkins piling in then, or that other toryboy with his queens eleven stuff?

    115. Luigi says:

      Haggishunter says:

      23 May, 2016 at 9:53 am

      There was actually a sea of Saltires and lion rampants in parts of the Rangers crowd, something the television would not show.

      I bet it was those Rangers supporters of another flag that ran onto the pitch.

      TBH compared with some of the previous Scottish cup final “incidents”, Saturday was nothing. I remember well 1980. A 104 year wait, amazing demonstration by thousands of hibs fans in joy and excitement, the usual small band of troublemakers, 11 arrests, no serious injuries apart from two black eyes, a twisted goal post and a huge number of bruised egos. No ambulances were needed. Some riot.

      What is the big feckin deal? The SFA response was predictable – wot a bunch of ninnies.

    116. KenC says:

      Gordon Smith did indeed say Saturday’s events were worse than 1980, as expressed in yesterday’s Sunday Post.

      I watched that game at a Rangers supporting friend’s house, along with workmates of his, including Celtic fans.

      Most had fallen asleep due to alchohol and a match of dreadful quality.

      After Celtic scored Hampden, and my friend’s living room erupted into ugly scenes I will never forget.

      Smith is wrong. His Rangers affiliations are clearly displayed in an article which includes the sentence, “People will blame Hibs fans, Hibs as a club, the police for a slow response, stewards etc.”

      The fact that Smith was SFA Chief Executive says much. The governance of our football has all the hallmarks of the incompetence we are ridding ourselves of at a parliamentary level.

      Third rate at best, stuck in the past, holding us back.

      Saturday threw up a lot of questions which needs more than a simple excercise in apportioning blame.

      However, once it has all passed, unlike 1980 I will remember most the match, the history making result, and “Sunshine on Leith”.

    117. jim watson says:

      Many moons ago I was at Cappielow watching an end of season clash with Morton and Dunfermline. Dunfermline won that day to clinch the title. Their fans invaded the hallowed Greenock turf. One fan in particular took it upon himself to goad the Morton fans who had stayed behind to applaud the Dunfermline team on winning the title. We kept applauding as he was huckled away by the police for being an arse. At no point did we think we should have reclaimed our territory – the Dunfermline fans were happy at winning and we were happy to applaud their teams efforts. Afterwards we were also happy to exchange handshakes with fellow supporters from Dunfermline…

      So not all football is bad…

    118. AhuraMazda says:

      Oh no, Tom, not other sites… Please, anything but other sites.

      How deluded would you need to be to think threatening to get info from other sites was going to sway anyone let alone Wings & The Rev?

    119. Rod Copeland says:

      Maybe if the police weren’t busy wandering around filming people for later dawn swoops to keep up their arrest rate for OBFA they could have reacted quicker?

      There is NOTHING WOS complains about in that article that isn’t covered under the laws in place before OBFA. So what use is OBFA?

    120. Hugh Barclay says:

      The SFA have to grow a pair and fucking hammer Rangers for singing the bile boys, The SFA should deduct pointe the minute it is heard, the game is pointless for Rangers, if it’s a cup game boot them out.

      That would work and all going well they will be relegated back to the bottom of the league where they belong.

    121. heedtracker says:

      There is NOTHING WOS complains about in that article that isn’t covered under the laws in place before OBFA. So what use is OBFA?

      Its a start.

    122. J Galt says:

      At an early age my instinct was to detest “Fitba” and everything to do with it.

      I’ve yet to doubt my early perspicacity.

    123. louis.b.argyll says:

      Andrew Maclean..
      What are you on about?
      Why would/should the match be replayed?
      The match wasn’t disrupted whatsoever.
      The result was fair.

    124. @jim watson

      a timely reminder of how 96% of football supporters just want to have a few pints catch up with the mates and watch a bit of live fitba,

      but that does not make headlines for the miserable hack papers so they manufacture hate and bitter rivalry and then when trouble ensues they sell pretended outrage in their blood soaked papers.

    125. Proud Cybernat says:

      A couple of comments so far evidently from Rangers fans. Surprised then that neither of them sought to answer my earlier question. Let me repeat:

      Why do you want to be up to your knees in fenian blood; the blood of your fellow countrymen (and women)? Why? And why do you define yourselves by what you HATE and not by what you love?

      Care to explain this to me in an intelligent, rational and sensible manner? I’m ready to listen.

    126. Macart says:

      Utterly batshit nuts.

      In football you apparently have something purporting to be ‘entertainment’, where you are perfectly aware that you, as a paying customer, will be served a diet of abuse, provocation and in certain more extreme cases, there is the likelihood your afternoon will end in violence.

      Better yet. When fans of this ‘entertainment’ act like arseholes, its apparently the fault of everyone but those participating in these ritual acts of arseholery. Its the football authorities. Its the polis for being too much in evidence, or not enough in evidence, for being too harsh, or not harsh enough. Its Nicola Sturgeon’s fault mainly… just because.

      No, to be crystal clear, its the participants fault. If you hurl abuse. If you raise your hands in needless hatred. If you damage stuff belonging to someone else. Don’t be stunned to find yourself considered a law breaking thug not fit to roam the streets.

      Entertainment? Its more akin to barely contained tribal warfare.

    127. Big Jock says:

      Hugh 11.31

      The problem with that theory is. Half the directors have been caught singing it!

    128. Marylyn says:

      Nicola Sturgeon failing to condemn the behaviour of the Hibs fans in her tweet was a serious mistake. Let’s say that Rangers had won and their fans stormed the pitch. What reaction would there have been if someone like Ruth Davidson tweeted congrats to Rangers without mentioning the pitch invasion?

    129. HenBroon says:

      To say that these events were not predictable is utter nonsense.

      Do we learn anything from history?

      This was as close to an Old Firm match as you are going to get. Celtic supporters still smarting from being knocked out by Rangers, mixed in with Hibs supporters, both groups who are steeped in sectarian bigotry and have very violent histories.Mix that in with several bus loads of supporters from Ireland who come over for these matches, hardcore bigots, these Irish supporters are lauded as heroes by their fans over here.

      Now look at what happened, with minutes to go Hibs score what had to be the winning goal of a hard fought match. Their players run to the Hibs supporters who begin to arrive in numbers at the wall. At that point the match commander ought to have immediately ordered his reserves to the area, as it was obvious a pitch invasion was imminent. Anyone who claims that it was not possible to predict is niave in the extreme. The match commander has electronic eyes on every section of the crowd, it is not as if these events unfolded unseen. Once you put a wall of officers and stewards there you have signalled your intent and most fans will stay put. The boozed and drugged nutters who do make a break are then easily taken down. Stewards on their own are as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. They are simply not trained or motivated to tackle crowds. Why would you put your self in harms way, for shite money?

      The pitch invasion was a direct result of a failure of command and control. Officers were not used correctly. It was preventable. Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is simply looking for scapegoats, as we have seen in other crowd incidents. The default position of the authorities is to circle the wagons and blame the fans, BOLLOCKS.

    130. call me dave says:

      Hark the Herald:

      Neil says: “I was there” 🙂

      https://archive.is/2KDsz

      I clicked onto another stream to watch the ‘gowf’ just after the whistle blew, missed the lot!

    131. Socrates MacSporran says:

      As a sports journalist of over 40-years’ staning, can I congratulate the Rev on the best summary of Saturday’s whole sorry fuck-up as I have seen.
      This is the sort of story we once expected to read in The Herald or The Scotsman, but not these days. I think he got every point he made absolutely spot-on.
      As to what happens next? I forecast a typical SFA fudge, for the following reasons:
      The men along the sixth floor corridor at Hampden are scared of Rangers and their following – they will not come down hard on them.
      As the Rev pointed out, Hibs fans started the problem on Saturday; Rod Petrie of Hibs is Vice-presidnt of the SFA and Chairman of the powerful Professional Game Board. He is one of the “Heid Bummers” within the SFA, they will be extremely loath to punish his club, and by definition him.
      What might they do? They cannot do nothing, so will have to do the least they can get away with.
      I suspect they will fine both clubs and warn them as to the future conduct of their fans. They might even go as far as to ban both clubs’ supporters from their next Scottish Cup tie.
      If they are feeling really brave, Hibs and Rangers (who will bleat like hell they are being unfairly punished), may be banned from next season’s Scottish Cup.
      I do not think they will ban Hibs from Europe next season. They might, but I doubt it. If they do, St Johnstone are more-likely than Rangers to get the fourth Scottish spot, but, which club starts at which stage of the qualifying round will have to be re-assessed.
      In closing, can I add, in a career in journalism and the media which has lasted some 40-years, James Traynor has written a great deal of pish – never, in all these years, has he written as bad a piece as that odious press release which he issued on behalf of Rangers on Sunday.
      If hypocrisy stinks to high heaven – this was bull elephant shite of the first order.

    132. heedtracker says:

      Why do you want to be up to your knees in fenian blood; the blood of your fellow countrymen (and women)? Why? And why do you define yourselves by what you HATE and not by what you love?

      Because much of it stems from Northern Irish sectarian war basically. If you go to match day Ibrox, in ground pre match festivities kick off at around 12.30 pm lots of coach loads of fans from Ireland, to be entertained by all kinds of things laid on by the club. You can probably guess what they’re all singing and shouting about.

    133. Marylyn says:

      When did James Traynor move back to Rangers?

    134. harry mcaye says:

      Bob Mack- They would have been singing “Hello Hello, we are the Killie Boys”, a non-bigoted song. Rangers fans don’t own that tune.

    135. Fergus Green says:

      Some 40 years ago I was at a Dundee vs Rangers match at Dens Park. Dundee took the lead after 2 minutes then Rangers’ recent signing Colin Stein was sent off during the first half. This prompted a pitch invasion, complete with sectarian chanting, and when the match finally got back underway, there was only one team who was going to win that march.

      My girlfriend and I were kicked and spat on on the terracing. The Dundee players, along with the referee and linesman were intimidated by the violence and every subsequent decision went Rangers’ way. It was a relief when Rangers scored the winner as this meant we were more likely to get out of the ground unscathed.

      The SFA did nothing.

    136. Tom says:

      @Heed tracker
      @ Bob Mack

      Not all apples are green. I have more independence supporting Rangers fans than not. This site is fast becoming a rant about Rangers and other peoples hatred of them. Get back to the independence cause and leave the football to itself.
      There are a lot of posts here, that where and when the opportunity arises gives birth to all the non independence issues which does the cause no good.
      Why do you want to drive potential yes voters away from your site. If you bring their football allegiances into the argument then the independence message gets buried under all the crap.
      Maybe, Stuart you should substitute Rangers fans with the word unionists then me and my friends won’t take it so personally

    137. chalks says:

      The OBA hasn’t stopped the old firm singing their songs.

      It has led to non old firm clubs fans being kettled, manhandled and arrested, only to have the charges thrown out in court.

      The act, may not be the problem, the polices interpretation of it is.

      It has failed. The simple fact is that the problem goes deeper than merely chucking legislation at it, but no political party wants to touch that particular educational issue re schools etc.

      For what its worth, I think people are jumping the gun over what happened on Saturday, hibs came from behind, got a last minute winner and invaded the pitch, fair enough they shouldn’t have done it, but it does happen all the time in England and is part and parcel of football these days.

      In England they are allowed to drink in the stadium and have had no increases in violence due to this. In Scotland people get drunk in the pub and then go to the ground, are you also in favour of closing pubs?

      There wasn’t 2000 hibs fans battling rangers fans, it was a minority. The vasy majority of the 21,000 hibs fans stayed in the stands.

    138. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Because much of it stems from Northern Irish sectarian war basically.”

      But why do Scottish Rangers fans join in witht heir N. Irish ‘friends’? Do the Scottish Rangers fans want to be up to their knees in Irish fenian blood or Scottish fenian blood or both? Why do the Scottsh Rangers fans want that?

      Why?

    139. Ken500 says:

      Get a bit of action. Put the Directors in the Dock first. Theynthink they are above the Law. Breaking the Law at every turn. Those that make the Law, break the Law and do not enforce the Law.

      The Law is an ass.

      The Scottish Gov should bring in minimum pricing as an urgency. To stop people harming themselves and other taxpayers.

      John Swinney should cut University funding. The Universities have so much money they don’t know what to do with. According to folk who work in University estate. Glass Libraries and extravagances. The wealthy from elsewhere are still being funding and subsidised with Scottish taxpayers money. While Scottish students couldn’t get into their own Universities. Make sure Scottish students get the full loan they are entitled to £3000+. It has to be paid back in any case. That has already been done. Instead of £3000 to be unemployed.

      The money raised should be put into the early years schooling. Keep class sizes down. Teachers should have training in additional needs. It helps all children. Diverted money should be put into college places (part time etc). Colleges are really good to get (vulnerable) people into work. They work very well. Many people get into work or Uni from colleges. HNC/HND and certificates etc are good structures for people to get employment in trade and other jobs. Mr Swinney can do it. He is the man for the job. Best value and very valuable.

      How can a few University Professors or company employees work 35hrs in University/company work and 35hrs in (political/parly) profession= 70hrs. That is illegal. The EU working directive is 48hrs a week. They are breaking the Law. Or are they shirking and not giving good value for the money. A case of Fraud.

    140. Luigi says:

      I am utterly astounded that people are trying to compare yesterday’s “trouble” with that of the 1980 cup final. The latter makes the recent incident look like a teddybears’ picnic. The booze-fuelled mega-brawl in 1980 was indeed a riot – go and check it out on YouTube – it’s all there in its bloody glory.

      Yesterday, thousands of jubilant hibs fans had to express their joy and excitement on the pitch. Nothing more than a handful of trouble makers on both sides tried to start a rammy – they will be quickly identified and dealt with. No ambulances were required. Apart from a couple of black eyes, a twisted goalpost and a number of bruised egos, was anyone seriously hurt? Thought not. OK, so the SFA were embarrassed TBH they have a lot more to be ashamed of than the non-riot yesterday. Seriously, whats the big deal?

      If the chinless wonders at the SFA have to save face, then give Hobs and Rangers a slap on the wrist and order Hobs to pay for the minor damage caused.

    141. harry mcaye says:

      Rev is right to do the inverted commas. Hereford United were liquidated and reformed as Hereford FC. Similarly Chester City became Chester FC, Halifax Town FC Halifax and Gretna became Gretna 2008. Rangers seem to be above laws like this.

    142. chalks says:

      ‘Because much of it stems from Northern Irish sectarian war basically.”

      But why do Scottish Rangers fans join in witht heir N. Irish ‘friends’? Do the Scottish Rangers fans want to be up to their knees in Irish fenian blood or Scottish fenian blood or both? Why do the Scottsh Rangers fans want that?

      Why?’

      It winds up opposing fans and some of them also feel more British than Scottish. It’s also basically a club song, like stand free is to Aberdeen fans.

    143. heedtracker says:

      Tom says:
      23 May, 2016 at 12:20 pm
      @Heed tracker
      @ Bob Mack

      Not all apples are green. I have more independence supporting Rangers fans than not. This site is fast becoming a rant about Rangers and other peoples hatred of them. Get back to the independence cause and leave the football to itself.”

      Yeah. You get this quite a lot now, dont criticise me or I wont vote YES. Greens are like this too, how dare you be critical of my Greeness, stop it or we wont vote YES either. Not all Rangers fans are the same but we wont vote YES either, if you dont leave us alone, is how it goes.

      Whatever team you support, or Green twits you might vote for, gees a break on the empty threats will you.

    144. chalks says:

      Ken500, if Aberdeen University and RGU have too much money, then why are they cutting staff and amending pensions etc?

      Do tell.

    145. DerekM says:

      Both clubs should be made to play behind closed doors until they prove to the police they are doing something about their thug fans.

      It takes two to start a rumble so those claiming the innocence of thier support are liars and idiots,who threw the first punch is irrelevant amd no amount of finger pointing will change that.

      All other clubs in Scotland should now consider banning these clubs away support until they can learn to behave in other peoples areas.

      Though i will thank Hibs and Rangers fans for making the best case for the existance of the OBFA and it should be used to its full extent to prosecute both the clubs and the thugs who claim to be fans.

    146. Joannie says:

      Proud cybernat – “But why do Scottish Rangers fans join in witht heir N. Irish ‘friends’? ”

      Good question. A few days back we had another thread on sectarianism and one poster recounted how, when he was at school, he and his friends used to go miles out of their way to attack Catholic school children. There were no children from Northern Ireland egging them on, it was something they took it into their own heads to do.

      So its a bit of a cop out to blame everything on people from NI, I’m afraid, clearly Scotland has a problem all of its own.

    147. Patrick Roden says:

      I agree with the revs analysis but would add one point:

      There’s no chance that the SFA will deduct points or do anything meaningful to stamp the poison of both sides of the Old Firms behaviour.

      Only the decent people of Scotland will be able to put an end to this nonsense, by organising a mass boycott of Scottish football until the SFA take genuine and serious actions to stamp out all religious and political chants, flags, etc etc from both sets of OF fans.

      The boycott should include a plea to FIFA and EUFA organisations to ‘save our game’

      Personally I want both of these clubs kicked out of Scottish Football for good, rather than wait on that glorious day when at long last these low-lives and dregs of society are invited to join the lower English leagues.

      If we are not prepared to take direct action to stop this blight on our nation, why should anyone else?

    148. HARRY MCAYE, the killie fans still sing about being up to their knees in blood, so that’s OK is it? What’s so special about fenian blood?

    149. Proud Cybernat says:

      “It winds up opposing fans and some of them also feel more British than Scottish. It’s also basically a club song…”

      Okay – so why do those Scots who feel more British than Scottish want to be up to their knees in fenian blood? Why would these Brit-Scot Rangers fans want to be up to their knees in anyone’s blood? And why would a club condone a song that incites hatred towards a particular section of the Scottish population?

      Any Brit-Scot Rangers fan here care to enlighten me?

    150. Lemon says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      23 May, 2016 at 8:10 am
      “Why not use a picture of a Hibs fan attacking a Rangers player ?

      It was the best picture. If I’d had a good one of Hibs fans (like the one of snarling Hibees on the crossbar from the cover of the Sunday Post) I’d have used it, but I didn’t. I needed the broken-goals and Wallace-attack pics for points 2 and 3.

      Sorry Stuart, not buying that excuse. There are 100’s of photos out there of the incident and you just happened to pick 1 of a Rangers fan kicking a Hibee on the ground. When you selected that picture you knew it would set the tone of it’s Rangers fault, look at that poor wee Hibee being attacked by the rangers thug.

    151. Ken500 says:

      Aberdeen University and RGU spend their money on other non essential projects instead of staff and pensions. Like Glass Library and overcapacity of students from elsewhere, getting a subsidised deal. Unnecessary, non essential or urgent research. Ie (greed) and bad management. The over consuming, over patronising, wealthy hierarchy of governance..

    152. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Nicola Sturgeon failing to condemn the behaviour of the Hibs fans in her tweet was a serious mistake.”

      Oh shush. At that point she almost certainly didn’t have a full picture of the facts. And why should she only condemn the Hibs fans?

    153. Tommy B says:

      I rarely comment, but in this instance thank you Rev Stu, for a courageous and honest report.

      It has been more than ten years since I left a small west of Scotland town, for the deepest Borders, to breathe I hoped unpolluted air, to escape this noxious filth, naively thinking it was just just a Glasgow phenomemenon (with pale Edinburgh imitations), only to find similar problems here too, the poison had spread as intended far and wide long ago, to keep us divided.

      Nevertheless, one day soon this will all be over. Truth and reconciliation is necessary.

      It is more damaging than ever in the workplace, some day the true story of Rolls-Royce/BAE’s former Hillington factory, especially K-block, or Crazy K, will be told, where the anti-catholic sectarian practices of a minority ran riot for decades with the management and trade union officialdom encouraging, facilitating and revelling in the chaos, carnage and misery that resulted.

    154. Ken500 says:

      The Ranger fans have form of special measures and contraint. For anyone to deny that, they are in complete denial.

      In Ulster it was the Protestants with UK Gov Unionist support who descriminated against the Catholics. They still do. Where did the Scottish Oil revenues go. To Ulster to prop up an apartheid regime. The Protestant Illegal Orange Organisation. Elitist, discriminatory and harmful. The old handshake given by the Royals. It cost Scotland and the economy £Billions. Maimed and killed innocent people. Just for unequal control and bigotry. .

      Northern Island (2million) raises £28Billion in taxes and gets £14Billion (50%) more = £42Billion. Norwegian levels of funding for Unionist votes in Westminster.

    155. David Alexander says:

      Remember there were two big matches on this weekend, Hampden and Rugby Park. In both there were pitch invasions but the outcomes were pretty different. The Hampden events have been well publisised but the Rugby Park ones haveb’t so for those who were not present at the end of the play off final several hundred Kilmarnock fans invaded the pitch, most to celebrate but some to goad the 4,500 Falkirk fans in the stand behind the goals. Not one Falkirk supporter tried to enter the pitch and the majority of the Kilmarnock fans made clear their displeasure towards the minority trouble makers. Both sets of fans and the managment of both clubs were dignified in their statements and both Hibs and Rangers fans and directors could take lessons from.

    156. chalks says:

      Actually ken, it’s partly due to less foreign students coming over, e.g. decline in chinese students paying £20k in tuition fees.

      The glass library was necessary as the library wasn’t fit for purpose.

      I would also point out re the football and the offensive behaviour act, you can clearly hear rangers fans singing on the pitch, their unoffical club song, hello hello, with battalions of police in front of them.

      Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t that song offensive behaviour as deemed so by the legislation, so why are none of them arrested? Why will none of them BE arrested and why will they always be allowed to carry on with it, whilst the ‘provincial’ teams and notably, lesser numbers, get a hard time off the police for singing non-sectarian songs?

      If the OBAF act is working, then why isn’t it being used to stop old firm fans? Is it because there are thousands singing the songs and it’s actually futile to stop them and easier to go after non old firm, non sectarian singing fans, as the legislation is broad and such a grey area that a policeman can do a fan under the legislation for merely calling someone a twat.

    157. crazycat says:

      @ defo at 1.53

      Thinking outside my box, howsabout a new ‘sport’.
      A mini league of footy hooligans, rollerball style.
      Pay per view, i’m, sure it would be a hit ?

      During the Referendum campaign, a book of short stories was published, in which various authors imagined an independent Scotland, sometimes far into the future.

      In one of the stories, a dystopia was described, in which anyone caught singing sectarian songs (or perhaps even wearing Old Firm scarves, I can’t remember now) was sent to a horrendous correction facility.

      If they didn’t reform, they were trained for gladiatorial fights to the death against incarcerated representatives of the other side. I think there was a paying audience.

      It was an extremely disturbing story; unfortunately I can’t recall who wrote it.

    158. Tom says:

      @heedtracker
      Who said anything about not voting YES. Learn to read, it says
      “Why do you want to drive potential yes voters away from your site”

      If that is what is wanted then carry on as before.
      I’m fed up reading all this shit. There are a lot more sites to choose from and get a more balanced viewpoint and not pander to the hard of thinking.

    159. Rod Macdonald @ 12.36pm.
      As someone who has been going to Killie games since 1969, I can assure you that they don’t sing anything about”Fenian blood” & never have.
      The Union flag does not fly above Rugby Park & I have never seen a fan carry the flag – unlike a number of other “provincial” teams (Airdrie, Falkirk, Motherwell being 3 that spring quickly to mind).

    160. heedtracker says:

      Tom says:
      23 May, 2016 at 1:51 pm
      @heedtracker
      Who said anything about not voting YES. Learn to read, it says
      “Why do you want to drive potential yes voters away from your site”

      If that is what is wanted then carry on as before.
      I’m fed up reading all this shit.”

      I’m so sorry Tom. I had no idea Rangers fans have such delicate and easily hurt feelings. You’re all just wilting lilies aren’t you.

      Good to hear youre a YESer though. Spread the good YES word at Ibrox, in the family stand, get em young.

    161. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Sorry Stuart, not buying that excuse.”

      I couldn’t give a fuck what you’re buying. Nothing here is for sale.

    162. Paul says:

      Patrick Roden… How did this become about ‘Old Firm’ all of a sudden? You want Celtic and Rangers kicked out of Scottish football following a riot started by Hibs fans? I guess Hearts, the Dundee clubs and Aberdeen should be kicked out too then eh. They all have their own ‘offensive’ songs and chants in one way or another, so where does it stop? Sectarianism? I’ve heard the fenian b’ chants from most ‘wee’ clubs in Scotland. And wasn’t it a Hearts fan who attacked Neil Lennon? Was that the ‘Old Firms’ fault too?

    163. Tom says:

      @heedtracker

      You really don’t know anything about me, mate.
      Your attitude to all this speaks volumes about you,did they get you young as well?
      This site is about independence and the way forward, but it doesn’t appear to be on the agenda today.

    164. Lochside says:

      Good points Rev. One fact I’m surprised you missed out was the Aberdeen supporters pitch invasion at Easter road on winning the League in 1980. The Hibs fans did not react, despite that season they were already relegated. Ok it wasn’t Hampden, but the common denominator in all this is ‘Rangers’.

      I contributed to a previous thread regarding this, and at the time was unaware of any evidence of Rangers players or staff being jostled or pushed. I accept this to be the case, the Hibs offenders deserve and will receive criminal prosecutions for their behaviour.

      However, as your last few points make clear, the football authorities and the media have been and continue to be culpable in their craven attitude and treatment of ‘Rangers’. The statement that was issued by this club is sinister in its threats and intent toward not only the FM, but anyone who has the temerity to challenge the club in any way.

      When the old club died, the new one had the chance to bury its ugly sectarian history once and for all. Unfortunately, since it’s ‘rebirth’it has arisen like a grotesque two-headed boil, with not only the anti-catholic head but a resolutely unionist one as well. Walter Smith’s sour and inflammatory comment about the ‘bitterness’ Rangers supporters held towards the rest of Scottish clubs on achieveing their promotion to the Premier League embodies the rotten heart of this club.

      I do not support the other Glasgow club, nor Hibs for that matter. But without Rangers in the top league, problems at games and within stadiums have been few and far between. The SFA’s cowardice in permitting and favouring this pernicious institution back into Scottish football is a paralleled only by the supine press pack that has suckled on Rangers dominance and now is showing that allegiance in its disgusting over the top coverage of the ‘riot’.

      The BBC, who I loathe, have been banned from interviews with ‘Rangers’ prior to this incident, and had their reporters targeted, including arch blue nose Graham Speirs. They now threaten the livelihoods and the personal safety of these journalists with the Traynor’s ludicrous statement. Something that not even the most rabid ‘Nat’ has been accused of.

      When charlatans like Torrance et al talk about ‘Ulsterisation’ of Scottish politics..it makes me wonder if the backing of Rangers at all costs is part of this process? Push the political argument back to sectarian divisions. But unfortunately, until anti-Irish and anti-Catholicism is extinguished from Scotland, we will have this problem until Rangers are forced to change their ways.

    165. Andy-B says:

      The Orange B*stard Football Act or OBFA must remain in force, or we’ll slip back into the dark ages.

    166. Henichen says:

      Totally agree with my fellow Rangers fans here. Not so long ago we had an influx of hooliganism movies that glorifies the fight. Alot of young boys have been taken in by it and drink has nothing to do with it, a fights a fight. Just wish some fellow yessers wouldnt use the opportunity to kick into Rangers. Wish people would get some perspective, singing offensive songs in the street about someone compared to using violence against that same person is seen as worse. Sticks and stones comes to mind. Maybe people of all religions need to shut the f**k up! Stop thinking their above everyone when it comes to offence.

    167. Jason says:

      I’m a rangers fan and also Pro indy, hate the union and a member of the snp. I love this website and have always recommended it to others but lately I’m getting sick of all this rangers bashing and the whole “if your a rangers fan then you are part of the problem” vibes it’s been giving off lately. I remember an article you wrote explaining how rangers divided their own fans by coming out in favour of a no vote during the referendum when all polls showed the rangers fans to be divided 50/50, think you should take note of your own advice

    168. louis.b.argyll says:

      Henichen, there IS an issue be discussed.

      Why should people of all religions shut up?

      Tolerance is paramount in a civilised society.

      Hearing at least a third of any given Rangers crowd singing Billy Boys..

      ( you know, the song about the blood of people of a different sect of the SAME RELIGION )

      ..offends me greatly and I was brought up in the protestant faith.

      It is not religion at fault, its mis-played Loyalism..(sanctimonious intolerant pre-enlightenment weird)

      I suppose youd say that moderate Muslims should shup up too..let ISIS do all the talking?

    169. louis.b.argyll says:

      No one is saying Rangers fans should be tarred with the same brush as the bigots….but THEY CONTIUE TO STEAL YOUR IDENTITY.

      The sectarianism MUST END..
      so that any RIVALRY BECOMES ‘SPORTS-BASED’

    170. Henichen says:

      @louis.b.argyll, as an atheist, a gers fan ( only 1 of a Catholic celtic supporting family ) ill stand by what i say. Religion is from the dark ages of control by the establishment of their times. We openly take the piss out of peoples belief of aliens, ghosts or other phenomenon. So yeh i do tolerate religion, but when it starts to dictate to the non believers it crosses the line. So to make it clear, im son of a protestant mum, Catholic dad, irish Catholic family with muslim and sihk married in, im best to talk about religions BS and i do more than tolerate it.

    171. Henichen says:

      Could you please post my response to louise.b.argyll !!!! Fed up with being censured when im not being vile or nasty. If you feel ive offended any religion? Ive not, hate all religions equally.

    172. Henichen, Jason, I agree. Most supporters of RFC are decent law abiding citizens, and many voted Yes. I know some, and indeed I am legal guardian to a dyed in the wool true blue’s two boys. You will never meet a finer gentleman.
      To my certain knowledge he has never been up to his knees in anybody’s blood.
      He abhors the Tory adoption of RFC as the queen’s Unionist Team.

      The point is that Ruth Davidson’s Con and UNIONIST Party, particularly the risible Professor WATP Tomkins, and the queen’s Eleven Murdo Fraser, latched on to the hatred thing, and a significant number of quite frankly sociopathic low lives , the ‘British not Scottish’ Neanderthals, were a rich vein of No votes to mine, and Tomkins and Fraser resurrected the ‘fifties sectarian saga quite deliberately. I vote Tory because I am a RFC supporting Proddie.
      They are beneath contempt.
      They are peddling hatred and bigotry, for a seat on the gravy train.
      Thjey don’t give a fuck about the mayhem, injury, and possibly this season, deaths their rabble rousing may cause.

      There is a dangerous threatened violence bubbling underneath, ready to erupt into riots and carnage,if the psychopaths don’t get their way, according to Torrance, Tomkins, and Fraser.
      Scottish society can do without them and the low life hacks who fan the flames of hatred and bigotry for money.
      You need two centre halves BTW,

    173. Peter C says:

      I was briefly on the pitch on Saturday, mainly because they’d opened the gates once the exuberant contingent flooded on. I don’t excuse the reaction, or me joining in, but surely it’s understandable given the 114 years and the stick Hibs have received as bottlers and ‘Hibsing’ it from the same Glasgow media now printing lies about RIFC player attacks. Utter nonsense as Laura Miller has clearly stated. A few idiots strayed into the RIFC side of the pitch and that’s when their sectarian fans poured on looking for aggro and committed assaults as your pictures show – along with cries of FB and a thousands strong rendering of the banned TBB. The notion from The Rangers statement that these elements were protecting their own players is a contemptible lie as no RIFC player was on the pitch when they charged on and is just a blatant attempt at manipulation. Any excuse making and condoning of violence is surely a disrepute charge and the author (Traynor or Graham) should be subject to prosecution for incitement. It’s clear the SFA have created a monster in King’s RIFC. King is clearly a very bad loser just as he is deficient at telling the truth and filing tax. No class at all.

    174. louis.b.argyll says:

      Folks of all religions and none..

      There must be religious based dialogue, to end religious intolerance and misconceptions..is what im getting at.

      We must focus on the sects, ignoring, or brushing over their influence (no matter how small a minority) will just pass the problem to the next (divided) generation.

    175. Patrick Roden says:

      @ Paul, yes there’s been incidents involving other clubs but none of the other clubs you mention ‘Aberdeen’ ‘Dundee’ have a religious/political song book and the rest of Scotland has had it with both of your clubs.

      This time it’s Rangers, the next time it might be Celtic, and on every occasion you both spout your well rehearsed excuses, but in my opinion the rest of Scotland needs to say ‘enough is enough’

    176. crazycat says:

      @ Henichen at 5.01

      You’re not being censored – posts on here take a hugely variable length of time to appear, with no obvious pattern to this. It also seems to be the case that not all posts are visible to all readers, occasionally.

      I’m going to submit this at 18.29, but it could be long after that by the time you are able to see it (and even longer for you to notice it if you’re now doing something else, of course).

    177. louis.b.argyll says:

      Henichen…no problem, but..

      Never said YOU were vile.

      Was referring, and made clear in my comment, about his Queens 11 tweet, that it was Murdo Fraser who is a vile Tory.

    178. defo says:

      Crazycat

      “If they didn’t reform, they were trained for gladiatorial fights to the death against incarcerated representatives of the other side. I think there was a paying audience.”

      I was only (half) joking with the rollerball comment.
      Death is a tad too far !

      I grew up in Bathgate through the punk years, and violence was almost de rigueur. Most of us grew out of the testosterone, glue and alcohol fuelled silliness before our teenage years were out. Most.
      Football casuals came along not long after, and fulfilled the same ‘need’.

      Fortunately, all that oestrogen leeching into the water supply seems to have calmed things down a bit. 😉
      Shame about all the new gender based confusion though!

    179. Peter C says:

      Your picture of the tattooed 40 something Rangers fan kicking a young Hibs teenager in the head sums up what these newco fans are about: cowardice, bigotry and thuggery. I hope he is identified and gets at least 12 months in Bar L. Okay, the newco fans were provoked by the Hibs pitch antics but their violent reaction is there to see and has been despicably condoned and excused in an official statement by RIFC. Hibs should make an official police complaint on Graham for his tacit approval of newco fan thuggery in a supposed club statement. That is incitement to violence in no uncertain terms. I am glad I don’t have to see my club play this mob next season.

    180. heedtracker says:

      Tom says:
      23 May, 2016 at 3:28 pm
      @heedtracker

      You really don’t know anything about me, mate.
      Your attitude to all this speaks volumes about you,did they get you young as well?

      Its not about you Tom, although yes they got me a couple of times behind the Beach End and once a train. Getting battered as an early teen by Rangers or Celtic fans is always character building.

      If it was up to me, in business that produces this level of violent crime should be shut down but the whole point of WoS is, how events like the pitch invasion are used by the tory led BBC media and ofcourse reprobates like those ghastly tweeting tory MSP’s.

      Dark days ahead but if today’s full on SNP bad Scottish newstands are anything to go by, five more years and its all over for Scotland run by the SNP and ofcourse Scottish independence, with Rangers doing their bit, is the cunning plan.

    181. Andrew Mclean says:

      louis.b.argyll says:
      23 May, 2016 at 11:43 am
      Andrew Maclean..
      What are you on about?
      Why would/should the match be replayed?
      The match wasn’t disrupted whatsoever.
      The result was fair.

      Players assaulted before leaving pitch, trophy not handed over , criminal damage by fans on public property.reputation of sport in Scotland tarnished.

      What happens on the pitch and off the pitch is the game, tickets were sold money was made. As a member of the Scottish nation that was my property that was damaged, both clubs should pay for the damage, or do the football fans expect the rest of us to pay, fuck right off.

      If you have a organised event and you sell tickets, and the guests trash the joint you pay, both for the actual damage and any other damages.

      Our society has had to suffer form this shite for far to long, if there not fighting they are insulting, or vandalizing, but oh look its OK because its the footy?

      No enough, they are just overgrown little boys and they need the naughty step!

    182. Davosa says:

      Like the Rev , wish all these boring rubbish wendyball teams would fuck off to England , Iceland, Greenland and take their moron supporters with them

    183. Frazerio says:

      The Hillsbrough disaster was directly caused by the failures of those in charge of safely managing the crowd. Their decisions caused those deaths. NOT the actions of those in the crowd.

      The circumstances in the lead up to that disaster with regards to fan numbers and behaviour were no different from any other cup semi final. So why was there a disaster that day? Incompetent handling of the safety of the public by the authorities was the cause.

      I have the right to take the wife and kids to a public event without fearing for our safety. Those responsible for crowd safety let down the public at Hampden. Thank goodness it didnt result in something much worse than it did.

      Regarding fencing/enclosures/standing etc, I feel opponents seem to miss the point. All seated stadia was introduced post-Hillsborough as a result of crowd mismanagement. Fencing etc becomes dangerous when crowds are incompetently managed. Of course most post-Hillsborough action was taken with ‘football fans’ getting most of the blame, rather than those who have ultimately been found responsible.

      In most cup finals, play off victories etc, fans will want to celebrate on the pitch afterwards. This is likely to lead to confrontations between rival fans.

      Saturdays set of circumstances wasnt that out of the ordinary. Its what crowds are likely to do if not managed properly.

      Saturday was a massive failure on the part of the authorities with regards to safely managing crowds. All that followed, while shameful and indefensible, was as a result of the failure of the authorities to safely manage a crowd.

      I’d recommend watching the Hilsborough documentary on iPlayer (I know, sorry), its as tough as you’d expect, but very very good.

    184. Paul says:

      Patrick Roden…

      So singing ‘dirty fenian b..’ is not religious or political? Like I said, heard this from most of the ‘wee’ clubs in Scotland at some point or another. I’d say it is, so kick them all out too?

      You say this time it’s Rangers, next time it might be Celtic. Well this time actually it’s Hibs first and foremost, along with Rangers, it’s not the ‘Old Firm’ or Celtic. A previous incident like this involved Motherwell fans, when they goaded Rangers fans who that time didn’t retaliate. And another incident before that, a Hearts fan attacked the Celtic manager.

      So you can’t really use this to further your ‘Old Firm’ agenda, in fact I think it does the opposite.

    185. Gary45% says:

      On a lighter side,
      The top picture of the diddy trying to kick the Hibs fan on the ground, looks like Sevco have found a new striker.
      Over weight, old and it looks like he has missed completely, they should be able to sign him for a couple of Tunnocks and a pair of butchers apron kecks, if they can afford it?

    186. Mumbo says:

      It was bad enough with religion but now it politics

    187. Bryan Weir says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Wembley 1977 was an act of violent thuggery, but it happened in the context of the time, when football supporters were much rowdier. It would be seen very differently now.”

      Really? I was at Wembley in 1977 but in the stand and in no position to get on to the pitch. From the reports I have read, the behaviour of Hibs fans after Saturday’s game was much closer to violent thuggery than 1977. The Scots fans at Wembley were genuinely celebrating. As far as I can recall no English players were assaulted.

      Rod Stewart and Gordon Strachan were just two of the famous names who were on the Wembley pitch that day so I guess that makes them violent thugs?

      I think you need to bury your prejudices and stick to dealing with subjects that you understand. You’re not bad at that but football is just not your game.

    188. Bryan Weir says:

      And I should have added that assaulting the players raises this to an entirely different level.

      It matters not that none of the players were seriously injured. There is little doubt that some of the Hibs fans tried to assault the Rangers players.

      This needs to be treated as an extremely serious situation, not twisted to make it look as though Rangers were responsible.

    189. Jim Stirling says:

      @ Bryan Weir your points are spot on the fact is that many of the pro-indy sites are filled with thinly disguised sectarianism towards Rangers fans and protestants in general. As at least in the minds of the hard of thinking being a Rangers fan or a protestant classifies you firmly in the unionist thug category.

      Naturally all those nice would be Irish Celtic supporters are just bursting with love and charity and would never do anything to offend , suggestions that they sing IRA songs, hurl abuse at Rangers fans , chant about the brutal murder of a young British soldier are all vicious lies. Believe me speaking as a lifelong SNP member and voter who just happens to be a protestant rangers supporter, the endless sectarian posts in pro-social media groups by narrow minded bigots with no interest in the greater good it is simply a means to vent their hatred is deeply damaging to the cause of independence.

    190. bhigowen4 says:

      There is a simple easy way to clean all this up…send sevco/trifc to non league football.Simples and everyone knows it.

    191. Walter Gallacher says:

      As a Rangers fan and Indy supporter (like several fellow fans/friends) I have to say this site has stooped to a low in trying to label and divide sections of our society. Rangers players were assaulted by Hibs fans we know that for a fact. Unless Rangers officials are lying then Rangers players and the assistant manager were spat on. Hibs fans charged towards the Rangers end and threatened amongst others disabled fans and their carers and initiated attacks on Rangers fans. A small number of Rangers fans retaliated and attacked Hibs fans. Rangers fans sang sectarian songs and a smoke bomb was let off.

      By far the worst events in all of this was the behaviour of Hibs fans. This was not a minor stramash. It was a major embarrassment to Scottish football which let all decent fans down. For this site to launch anithet thinly veiled attack on anyone who happens to support Rangers is more akin to Sun journalism. Theses stories from Rev Stu bear all the hallmarks of MSM bias he seems to place himself and this site above.

    192. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “As a Rangers fan and Indy supporter (like several fellow fans/friends) I have to say this site has stooped to a low in trying to label and divide sections of our society.”

      What the hell are you wittering about?

      “Rangers players were assaulted by Hibs fans we know that for a fact.”

      Yes, we do. It says so in the article, and unequivocally condemns it.

      “Unless Rangers officials are lying then Rangers players and the assistant manager were spat on. Hibs fans charged towards the Rangers end and threatened amongst others disabled fans and their carers and initiated attacks on Rangers fans.”

      This is bollocks. They did indeed charge towards the “Rangers” end and engage in goading. There’s no evidence that they “initiated attacks” against “disabled fans and their carers”. Violence started after “Rangers” fans came on and confronted Hibs fans goading them. It takes two to start a fight.

      “A small number of Rangers fans retaliated and attacked Hibs fans. Rangers fans sang sectarian songs and a smoke bomb was let off.”

      Also true, also noted in the article.

      “By far the worst events in all of this was the behaviour of Hibs fans.”

      I agree. They shouldn’t have been on the pitch, they shouldn’t have been goading the opposition fans and they shouldn’t have been attacking players. All of those points are made in the article.

      “This was not a minor stramash. It was a major embarrassment to Scottish football which let all decent fans down.”

      It was both. It was an embarrassment, but it was also minor. Nobody was hospitalised, nobody appears to have been seriously hurt and the police restored order within five minutes. So far only 15 people have been arrested in connection with events, and nobody’s been charged with a serious offence.

      “For this site to launch anithet thinly veiled attack on anyone who happens to support Rangers is more akin to Sun journalism. Theses stories from Rev Stu bear all the hallmarks of MSM bias he seems to place himself and this site above.”

      We did no such thing. We condemned both sets of fans, starting with the Hibs ones. Sober up.

    193. Walter gallacher says:

      I never stated Hibs fans initiated attacks against the disabled and their carers. To put that in quotation marks as a statement I made is deliberately misleading. I said they threatened them. There is verbal evidence from carers in the Rangers section to support that. Are they liars too? There is video evidence of Hibs fans initiating attacks on Rangers fans which is what I said.

      Finally people who disagree with you or criticise you are assumed by you to be drunk? The benefit of social media it gives opportunities to challenge manipulation of the truth. I am challenging your manipulation of events. Other Indy supporters appear to be doing the same. Stop stereotyping people on the other side of arguments from you. People whom you know nothing about.



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