Spoken in jest
From today’s Sun (English edition only, natch).
This is how Scotland is seen in the largest part of the UK today. There’s nothing at all new about Scots being portrayed as “stealing” money rightfully belonging to England, of course, nor in the stereotype depicted by the Jimmy hat. It’s the word on the placard that tells the story: “immigrant”.
We are not like them. Not fellow citizens of the same nation, not respected partners and equals, but scrounging, wily, contemptible foreigners. Those of us who live in England may always have felt like visitors in another country, albeit in a much more benign sense. But in right-wing British tabloid newspapers, there’s no mistaking the tone intended by the word “immigrant” in 2015.
The cartoon is obviously a joke, just like Steve Bell’s week-long portrayal of Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond as kilt-wearing, Highland-dancing Tory collaborators. But the racist 1970s comedians calling people of different ethnic origin “nig-nogs”, “wops” and “Chinkies” were joking too.
Jim Davidson, Bernard Manning and their ilk would have called Scots “Jocks”, but still considered us their countrymen. But our status in the eyes of a UKIP-driven England has fallen since then. To our increasingly xenophobic neighbours south of the border, we’re now outsiders. Alien parasites. The enemy within.
Even for those of us to whom the word “immigrant” isn’t a pejorative, it’s a chilling insight into how we can expect to be regarded and treated after this election is out of the way, should we choose to send to Westminster representatives whose first loyalty is to something other than Scotland.
.
[EDIT 17 March: There’s a response in the comments from cartoonist “Brighty”.]
Good article and reflects the feelings of what is going on & has been for a while now! Daily express used to have a Xenophobic daily cartoon – this is more akin to that with the extension of Scots now being Johnny-foreigner.
Loving the app Stu, had a wee alert when this was published! Very handy 🙂
Three of the Sun’s beggars are very down at heel but the Salmond beggar’s certainly not. Clearly England’s given Scots more than enough. We’re now just cheating beggars, happy and glorious but cunning, smirking beggars. Thanks again proud Scot buts.
Equally disappointing as unsurprising.
It only reinforces the desire to have the last laugh.
In May.
Deary me, how depressing. Roll on 7th May.
Er, not sure that last line says quite what you mean it to. Or am I just still half asleep?
Cath: I think you’re still half asleep. What are you seeing?
No, wait, I get it. I am just half asleep but I also don’t share your optimism that there’ll be any more respect whoever we vote for. This is it – we had all the love we were getting last year in the form of insincere bollocks akin to a drunken wife-beater saying Iuv ta doll, dinnae leave me. This is it from now.
Cath,
Exactly that.
I suppose the cloth cap in front of Mulliband is to represent the working man. It’s many years since Labour cared a toss for the working class.
I hope to see Slab failures after the election out begging. Curran could use her mouth as a cap, it’s big enough.
It looks as though MSM is determined to ‘other’ the Scots yet can’t see what is staring them in the face.
Such treatment only makes Independence that much more inevitable 😉
I earned my “Chippy Jock” wings with Martin Rowson last night. They just don’t get it.
https://twitter.com/logicsrock/status/577233544558313472
Personally, the most offensive thing about this cartoon is its complete failure to identify the leader of the SNP correctly. The current obsession with depicting Salmond as leader among the media and the other parties demonstrates their in-built misogyny.
Thanks to Westminster lies. The corrupt Westminster cabel of crooks have a lot to answer. Illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud. Westminster secrecy and lies and the Official Secrets Act. The Westminster crooks and the lying Press all out to defraud the People. A foreign, criminal tax evader, who bribes public officials and should be in jail, along with the rest of them. All the more votes for the SNP.
Cameron/Osbourne are dangerous liars. Westminster gets away with murder.
“but I also don’t share your optimism that there’ll be any more respect whoever we vote for”
Not respect, no. But power, which generates its own respect.
Couldn’t agree more Rev.
Sadly this has been their route of travel for some time and these monsters are taking the English electorate with them. Their monopoly of all media outlets and ruthless manipulation of the electorate’s perception is without shame or remorse. They seek to demonise and marginalise in an attempt to consolidate a particular voter base and narrative.
Without a representation that puts Scottish electoral interests first Westminster will consider itself free to impose any and all measures it deems necessary to (paraphrasing the words of Sir Nick Macpherson) protect the ‘territorial integrity’ of the UK state. However punitive and unreasonable any anti Scottish legislation may be, who would raise their hands in protest to support sponging immigrants?
I hope people take into account that the English electorate are also victims of this appalling narrative. The con being perpetrated from north to south has only one author and it sits on the banks of the Thames.
It’s a cartoon. I don’t think we should get too precious about it. The artist is merely reflecting the views of their paymaster
Nasty though it is, the disquiet in Westminster and the fawning MSN is to be welcomed. The monster is wakening and is clearly rattled. Like the chambermaid marrying the master, they think Scots are getting above their station and must be rebuffed at all costs.
What I don’t see in any of this are well constructed reasons for a continuation of the Union or why we are so much better together. Simply saying it does not make it so. All we are seeing now is naked fear.
What’s with this demonising of immigrants thing? I thought we were “better together”?
The irony is that Milliband’s parents are Polish, Clegg has Tsarist Russian origins and Farage is descended from Huguenots who fled persecution in France. Indeed the only one I can’t find an obvious immigrant background for is Salmond.
But it matters not. Using immigrant in a pejorative sense is very sad. But then applying it to an entire nation as this cartoon does? Well…
The more of this sort of thing I see being merrily churned out from those down south the more I cannot for the life of me understand the complete and utter lack of self respect the 55% have for themselves and other fellow Scots. I know it’s not the attitude of all the English but it’s the attitude of enough of them for this to be an issue in the future.
“It’s a cartoon. I don’t think we should get too precious about it.”
Sigh. I have no time for the “calm down, it’s only a cartoon” argument. Indeed, I find it profoundly irritating. Go and ask Julius Streicher or the editors of Charlie Hebdo about the power of “only a cartoon”.
There’s a reason people say a picture is worth a thousand words.
@frogesque
I think we’re all pretty used to the casual stereotyping and racism aimed at the Scot over the years frogesque. No, I think what sets this one apart is the casual wording that accompanies the imagery.
Good post as always Rev .
I can take a joke , I’ve even been shouted at High up in the Swiss Alps , ” Hey you Jocks , you Scotchs etc etc ( by gentry types wi boules in there moo ) but this is now well over the line .
Am gettin’ fair scunnerrt wi it aa .
I think a survey in Engerland ” Should Scotland be an Indy Country ? ” may have an interesting answer now ,following this barrage of drivel they are being fed down sourf .
Rev. I feel you are a wee bit unfair by critisising Cameron James Davidson for calling Scots: “Jocks”.
Jim Davidson has never tried to hide his father’s Scottish birth and his own upbringing as part of the Caledonian diaspora.
He may be a Tory supporter, many do not appreciate his old-fashioned style of comedy; he may even be one of those Anglo-Scots who believes in the UK, but, he is, in the widest sense – one of us.
If anyone can call Scots “Jocks”, it is Jim, after all, he is one.
I found, when I lived and worked in the People’s Republic of West Yorkshire, I was known as “Jock”. You can either live with it and enjoy life among some great people, or become a wee sad, put-upon person.
We are, after all, from a small, far-away country of which our English neighbours know little and care even less, other than that, they love us and want us to stay.
@Cath
I don’t expect Scottish MPs to be treated with respect regardless of whom we vote for.
If we elect Labour MPs they will laugh at us and continue to punish us for our temerity in wanting independence. We will be forced back into a box smaller than before the referendum.
If we elect SNP MPs, WM will be called to account for their misdeeds.
Did you also notice the relative positioning of each party leader? Since when was the SNP to the right of any of these clowns?
Out of touch Sun readership falling even more.
Nicola on ‘Lorraine’ this morning giving a positive image. The hard pressed voters in the rest of the UK will gain support.
The tone has definitely got nastier in the press and from political parties, but lets not make the mistake of thinking that all English people share this view… the right wing English media, UKIP, the Westminster establishment… yes. But “the largest part of the UK” or “our increasingly xenophobic neighbours south of the border”… I’m not so sure.
Perhaps these views are even becoming more prevalent in the general population in England, but I still have plenty of English friends who would find them repulsive, and support the progressive politics being driven by the SNP.
And the chancellors’ forgotten to have a shave…oops!
There are times when I read things that actually make me sad rather than angry. I wonder, how can any Scot who sees this cartoon NOT feel a profound sense of alienation from this mean spirited, right wing, xenophobic Westminster/London centric media/political agenda?
Good to see what the English edition is printing. I am surprised that they are sensitive enough not to publish this in Scotland. Like the sexist joke, it is probably considered ungentlemanly to speak in front of the targets.
I’m not sure the two kitchens gag is entirely innocent either.
Must be a cartoon they had ready and thought I’d be funny to print if we HAD voted for independence. But they’ve decided to run it anyway.
I’m about as English as you get, I’ve only ever lived in the shires (albeit 4 different ones)and I’ve never seen Scotland and it’s people as anything less than a respected part of the UK with amazing geology, history, cities and accents. Of course I’ve heard the reputation for being canny with money (is that insulting or just sensible?) and I can find the disparities in such things as student fees annoying (but that’s politics), but as for this style of racism, it’s never even occurred to me!! I hope the majority of Brits are the same!!
What makes it worse is that Labour politicians in and from Scotland have pushed this message relentlessly.
In their efforts to destroy independence and the SNP they ‘forgot’ that they live here and their constituents live here.
About 98% of the English nation have a similar view to the cartoon above. They truly believe that we couldn’t survive without “their” money being sent North.
And as was shown in the Referendum, 55% of Scots agreed with them.
But I have a feeling that this election will be the tipping point. When England suddenly realises that Scots are actually going to have power a Westminster, the racist abuse will pick up.
This will hopefully get through to NO Voters that we are NOT Better Together.
Well, we have to be resourceful to get anything back from the Tory government.
Here are some more images, inspired by random comments posted on this site, for your amusement.
http://gmtopp.wix.com/altered-images
What is this app that Jakedm speaks of?
I don’t mean at the bottom: “Notify me of new posts by email.”
There are so many threads and comments nowadays it’s dead easy to miss things.
Also notice the footwear.
Jackboots for Alex if I am not mistaken! 😡
I am immune to these cartoon stereotypes after years of suffering them. Here’s why and I look forward to the day it comes.
https://archive.today/q3j40
In the Royal Navy, it seemed to start in the 80’s, Scots were called PJ’s or FRISBS. This stood for Poxy Jocks or F**king Repulsive Ignorant Scottish B**tards.
Generally we were talked about as if wee weren’t there, The PJ’s or You Frisbs etc.
This is a man that give his pension to charity, when certain individuals at westminster are stealing from the public purse.
Ah! The first 3 hours of Call Kaye… Discussing UKIP’s ‘joke’ in poor taste.
Humza Yousaf calls for UKIP MEP to resign after ‘racist slur’
The UKIP man on defending and some phone in types agree it’s a joke but move on thicker skins etc…!
Sorted.
@bjsalba.@8.25
I agree Scottish MPs will never be treated with respect.
The best we can hope for is a strong SNP presence will ignite the East Lothian question and settle it for good. This is likely to have profound implications for any surviving labour/LibDem/Tory MPs
Ie. they will have even less mandate in Scotland.
I would tentively suggest that even a confidence & supply agreement with labour would do to the Labour Party what the coalition has done to the lib dems…..
The door is wide open to a Tory/Labour coalition.
That would do away with the whole trident question, it would do away with the whole austerity limitation issue, it would do away with the pesky scots and as a huge bonus the Barnett formulae could be revisited as punishment for our temerity………….
The only sensible outcome would be another referendum.
What’s not to like ?????
Steve Bright and Steve Bell trying to out do each other in who can insult Scots the most.
Both live in the English countryside and reflect the unhealthy attitudes of the yokel-locals, “We don’t like strangers in the village”.
THEY KNOW WHAT THEY DO
Guardian “This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn’t abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.”
Kelvin MacKenzie article in the Guardian today where he refers to Scotland as “Jockestan” and, “taxpayers of Jockestan (Scotland)”, and “Our chums in Jockestan are subsidised to”
I wrote a below the line comment pointing out (best I remember it) that this in the context of the article was racially offensive, That by definition MacKenzie despite his Scots sounding name, was a racist. Instead of being shunned by “polite society” and the Fourth Estate, he was being feted by them. Such abuse of Scots was now an everyday transaction to the chattering and political classes.
That rather than condemn this hate speech, the Guardian was happy to amplify it and promote it in this article, in the racist cartoons of Steve Bell, and in other reporting and commentary.
The Guardian, rather than being a bulwark against racial bigotry, had become an enabler of it.
Their response was to censor the post. Says about all that has to be said.
Channelling Voltaire (Hall) They know the wrong they do, they disapprove of what you say, and they will defend to the death THEIR right to stop YOU saying it.
I know that I have said this before but do have a look at that other Pug lover, Mr Hogarth’a pictures, he always had a begging Scotchman in his pictures drunken or otherwise. Isn’t it sad that 300 plus years on cartoonists are still using the same position.
Aye Better Together, those people need an education and I fear for those living in England, hatred is being stirred up.
FFS, this is getting beyond ridiculous.
It may seem ‘just a cartoon’ but it shows how Scots are regarded by many in England.
(Mostly due to the MSM /BBC) It plays to how English folks think of us. Better together? How do you feel now No voters?
About 98% of the English nation have a similar view to the cartoon above.
But why are these guys moving to attack a left of center party with half a dozen MP’s gaining at least some power in Westminster? This the owners of teamGB, the super rich tax dodgers and their shills closing in on a tiny threat from a tiny number of MP’s.
From this SUN sneering malice to the hard core red tory thuggery of the Guardian, red and blue tory world is thinking about how stop what, 6 to 40 MP’s. So scary, teamGB’s not exactly the most self confident of world power rule Britannia big boys.
They dont print this in their Scotland region because it shows Scotland just how bad their SLab troughers really are, how SLab are extremely comfortable doing absolutely fcuk all but keep the status quo and all of it farting along on the back of giant debt. Its certainly not them and its not the rich or any of their shills like say the BBC that have paid anything at all for maniac Brown/ Darling borrowing, boom, crash, scarper economics.
I earned my “Chippy Jock” wings with Martin Rowson last night.
I note Rowson had to explain his cartoon. Epic fail.
Nice to see him rattled. He thinks his gob of gum is enough to stem the torrent of racial abuse thrown at the Scots. A wee token gesture. In the end, you look hard, and you can’t find as much as a smidgeon of understanding or insight. His attitude is, I have done you a favour, now be grateful.
Stu links to Matthew Parris in the spectator. I quote from there …
“And if it’s a ‘no’, the paradox will be that even as Scotland cleaves to its union with the rest of the United Kingdom, the rest of the United Kingdom turns a little bitterly away. ‘Yes’ or ‘no’ — unless it’s an overwhelming ‘no’ — I as an Englishman will have never felt less affectionately towards Scotland than this weekend.”
In some quarters, they will never forgive us for even contemplating wanting to leave what they genuinely believe to be the ‘greatest country on Earth’. And, as we continue to ‘mess about’ by daring to influence the cosy duopoly of their parliament and hint of still leaving when it suits us, we are no longer one of them.
The only good to come out of this, is that No voters are treated as outsiders too!
I said ‘good’, which isn’t quite the right sentiment. It’s sad, too. If the Establishment hadn’t cheated and deceived NOs into staying, we’d be in a quite different place.
I’m really confused by this. I know the artist and he’s pro-independence and voted Yes in the referendum. He must be seeing something different in the drawing that what others are seeing?
Sorry, can’t say anymore than that, other than to reiterate that Brighty is Scottish and voted Yes.
Capella says:
“Good to see what the English edition is printing. I am surprised that they are sensitive enough not to publish this in Scotland.”
_________
Indeed, but i’d love to know how the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of folks dan saf with a Scottish connection are taking it.
There are quite a few English towns that were practically built on the blood, sweat and tears of Scots. Corby being one of them.
On call Kaye UKIP being lionised for one of the vilest slurs I have heard.
Could someone with a better hold on their anger get on there and explain that Cockburnwas a vile and worst of all a casual islamaphobe. Cannot believe the SNP is getting beaten up for being the victim!
I wonder if these morons think this is winning any friends or reinforcing a positive pro Westminster stance in Scotland? They literally staggered across the finishing line in September despite having the full weight of UK government and the UK media behind their campaign.
You’d think the important thing would be to win the peace after winning a battle, but no these arrogant halfwits believe stirring up racial tension and ethnic stereotyping will put those balshy Jocks back in their box. Let them know who’s boss. And so the intimidation and carpet bombing of fear, uncertainty, doubt, denigration continues.
Didn’t seem so long ago they asking everyone to phone a friend, send ‘we love you, please stay’ letters. Now we are immigrants and second class citizens in our own land. Newspapers, broadcasters and politicians queuing up to declare how unwanted Scottish representation is in Westminster. Though that’s not quite true is it?
Tame Scottish representation. Representation that falls into line, thinks and votes the right way in Commons. Representation that takes its handouts and behaves, well they’re alright. Good little doggy, now sit, stay, roll over, speak. Tricks over back to your basket.
I vote we send down some terriers with attitude problems. Terriers led by lions. Piss on those benches, mark our territory and bite the arse off anything that disrespects their owners (US). I want fighters and biters who won’t take any shit, but who won’t hand out any either. A partnership is a two way street. You give us the respect we are due, for however long this lasts and you may even get some in return.
@Roddy, you deserved that title. It’s a friendly cartoon and Nicola is not stereotyped and the caber is a useful shorthand for what the SNP are threatening to do to Labour. The caber may well be balsa wood enabling her to lift it, no?
We are in danger of being too precious. I think Martin Rowson gets it. Save your bile for Bell.
Let it bounce folks. Keep on smiling. We will have the last laugh come May.
@ Christian Wright
Couldn’t agree more.
They know exactly what they do.
I’m quite happy being portrayed as a foreigner. If I lived in England, I would feel that way. However they can’t have it both ways. Saying we are Brits during the referendum, and then Scots are a foreign nation after it.
Shades of the Irish in the early 20th century. They way they were treated in Westminster. The end is coming like a train. The real battles will start in Westminster after an SNP majority.
They will make it impossible for us to stay with them by continually being hostile. Can you imagine if that cartoon was the English in Edinburgh? Why do we put up with this form of discrimination.
@ Andrew Bentley-Steed
Since when was the SNP to the right of any of these clowns?
Coversely , from Alex’s Position they are actually well to the RIGHT o Alex .
No matter he even with iScotland he aint nae Imigrant.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:8:01 am
“Not respect, no. But power, which generates its own respect”
This
Shouldn’t ‘jock immigrants’ simply refer to themselves as ex-pats? It’s a nomenclature that I unwittingly gravitate to in Greece, a country that probably has the worst per-capita immigration problem in Europe thanks in large part to the Dublin Convention.
I’d rather be an immigrant here than in that shitehole.
Rev and Macart:
I agree the cartoon is offensive but it’s a very cheap shot (although much better drawn than the ‘incest’ one. I’m afraid lampooning goes back a long way and is part of the knockabout of a GE.
There is a local Council election in Glenrothes (March 26th.)
http://www.fifedirect.org.uk/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.display&objectid=DFABE976-B57E-7F15-C70182638BB79DDC
That’s where I’ll take my revenge against the Kirkcaldy Kremlin – and again in May!
Let’s see what the Sun makes of that!
@ Andrew Bentley-Steed
From Alex’s position , they are all actually well over to his Right .
Even with iScotland , he or we aint an IMIGRANT
Macart – ever thought of standing for Westminster?! Wow – just wow – go get ’em tiger!!
Re: Call Kaye,
I’m waiting on “anonymous Nigel the Englishman” phoning in and tell us of the amount of abuse the English get in Scotland.
Kaye’s favourite phone-in subject is talking about Scots who have abused and attacked English people.
She has been known to exaggerate these abuses.
(Nigel is a producer at BBC Scotland)
Stevie Cosmic: “Shouldn’t ‘jock immigrants’ simply refer to themselves as ex-pats?”
No, no, dear boy – “Johnny Foreigner”
When I served in a Scottish regiment there were also a number of English serving as part of the same regiment. They were treated no differently from everyone else. How ever when I was in a Rregiment that recruited in England it was a very different story and amounted to rasicim.
The English seem to have this air of entitlement. Gods a Englishman and everyone else is Johnny forginer. Yes some of it may be said as a joke but it ceased to be funny many years ago.
Having said all this. I was recently in London. Every where I went. Wether in resteraunts, shops or just asking for help on the transport system. I was treated with respect and politeness. The people I interacted with could not have been more helpful. They were of course from Eastern Europe.
I have lived in England for 25 years. I have my own business and am self made (indeed, I was intending returning to Greenock, business and all, if the referendum had gone the way we wanted it to. The cartoon, however, represents my own experiences of living in this part of the world.
I have had swastikas put on my gable wall, and told to fuck off back home, I steal jobs and ma a fuckin’ sweaty. I have experienced this crap in London and Yorkshire (two very different environments. All the cartoon does is represent the reality of galtung’s theories of structural and cultural violence.
the sooner we leave the better
PS..i have no truck with people who say “its only a joke/cartoon/gimmick etc etc etc.
With regard to England and immigrants – I’m of both Anglo Saxon (Harold) and William (the Bastard) Norman stock with possibly some Irish thrown in. Came to Scotland when I was 17, been here for 50 years ever since. No idea what that makes me but, like a stick of rock, I’ve got Scotland through my core!
However, there is a certain Royal family who are of German stock and a Duke who is Greek/Danish.
Can we send all THESE scrounging Johnny Foreigners back home please?
“They were of course from Eastern Europe.”
Love it. Always works best when you can leave the zinger until the last sentence.
Mucleguy, That cartoon, I don’t recognise any one except Nicola. I don’t know what it is trying to say. Therefore I don’t get the “joke”.
Whereas the cartoon at the top of the page it is quite clear what the message is, and most of the people portrayed are recognisable, but who are the 2 on the left?
For those interest here is Nicola Sturgeon being interviewed by Lorraine Kelly this morning on Breakfast TV;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY2N6xBJisk
Saw this comment by AWOLCO today and thought it summed up this sort of attitude pretty well – http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/conflict-in-labour-hierarchy-over-potential-powershare-deal-with-snp-10109827.html – this sort of thing should be splashed all over the Scottish media so people understand what we are really up against.
I was on an LRT bus a few weeks ago in morningside and seven English women got on,they were a bit tipsy but not drunk,very loud, the leader of the pack put £2 in and expected change back of course no change is given on Edinburgh buses. She then proceeded to go on and on and on about this 50p she lost. As the journey went on she started to get nastier in a shouting voice goaded by her pals that “Scots got everything for nothing and the English paid for it all” from prescriptions education and eye tests,it was some rant. Steam was coming out of my ears. It was that bad that an old morningside pensioner muttered “bastards, fucking bastards” under his breath. Just a wee snap shot in to their psyche. Don’t know how I bit my tongue, just wish I had the nuts to go radge.
@ Macart
Another excellent post mannie .
I’m gettin’ riled and ready t’ gie WM a punch in the knickers .
In Liverpool accent t masel ” Carm down carm down “
Good yin McCart and absolutely on the money. They want our tame representation that doesn’t rock their increasingly unstable boat loaded down with debt.
The idea that we could vote for somebody that actually puts the needs of Scotland first in this “partnership with broad shoulders” is that for 300 years they have told us what to do without sanction and don’t like the idea that somehow the boot might be on the other foot for however short a time.
They actually might have to listen to our elected representatives.
Ah shit I’m a ‘Johnny foreigner’!
So may times we’ve read or heard the opinion that Scots, the SNP, YES voters or independence supporters are “anti-English”.
The London-centred spin doctors of the political parties, allied with an enthusiastic establishment press and the barely concealed propaganda of broadcast media have been effective in framing that “anti-English” proposition.
The truth comes out at times, as the above cartoon shows; a wilful “anti-Scot” stance has been adopted and promoted by England. None of the main political parties has done anything to counter that stance.
They don’t even see that they are continuously weakening the position of the unionist alliance in Scotland by being continuously insulting to all Scots.
During the independence referendum, Scotland offered to be neighbourly; even with a NO vote, England has firmly rejected our offer.
fletch49er
Better a Johnny Foreigner than a Pommy
The Auld Enemy Within…?
Interesting cartoon, almost Victorian in its style and execution. It is beautifully drawn with all the characters instantly recognisable.
It certainly captures the rather high handed attitude of a Victorian cartoon though 🙂
In isolation this is no more than Tory jibe at the 4 main opposition parties (poor “two kitchens”) but it isn’t in isolation. We are definitely being painted as the “other” We are not seen as part of the Union. There are probably parallels with cartoons of the Irish in the first couple of decades of the 20th century. If only the media had been this anti last year. 🙂
It’s kind of how they have always viewed us and anyone else who isn’t ‘them’ it’s just that for the first time in 300 years the Scots may actually have a say in the governance of the family of nations and they don’t like it one little bit..
Morning call’s Kaye Adams trying her hardest to make light of David Coburn’s slur against Humza Yousaf.
No matter what she says, it is a slur designed to separate racial types the way Alf Garnet would have done and there is no place for it in a modern society.
There would be outrage if Humza Yousaf had said, “Chuka Umunna, or Kunta Kinte as I call him”, or calling Anas Sarwar, Ghandi! It is substituting a now unacceptable racial slur like chinky and calling a Chinese person Bruce Lee.
David the cunt Coburn should be sacked!
What’s interesting is this only appearing in the English edition. This means they know full well how offensive it is, but they want to mobilise anti Scottish feeling south of the border to get as many votes for Cameron as possible. But if you can get over the cack-handed slur it can only help the prospect of independence in the long run.
We won’t necessarily have any power however many SNP MPs go down.
If Milliband forms the goverment he will have the power. ie. Should he wish to abolish bedroom tax, improve welfare provisions etc. He will be able to do it with SNP support (the SNP could hardly not vote because they got no concessions) but if he wants to make welfare harsher and more punitive he can do it with Tory support.
Trident will go through because the vast majority of unionists will support it (Proud Britannia old chaps).
Milliband is in a similar position to that of John Major, being party leader with the strings still being pulled by the old regime.
The point being that we do not know what he would want to do. No clear policies.
Anyway, cheer up folks. I see in The National that we are having three days of celebrations for VE day 8th. May. So wave your union rags and vote for Churchill!
I’m glad the Rev also has no time for the “it’s only a cartoon mob”. I was beginning to think It maybe was just me overreacting when I read some other views printed (about over sensitivity to ‘humerous’ Micky taking).
I wrote directly to the Guardian about the Steve Bell Cartoon (and got the same weasely cut and paste reply job that others did). I’m glad I did though. The current wave of anti-Scottishness is relentless and unpleasant in the extreme, and if they were doing it about the Polish or the Romanians there would, quite rightly, be a national scandal.
I think we SHOULD challenge the media on these AND demand they print their cartoons and other anti-Scottish bile in Scotland editions, if, as they say, they think they are funny and/or stand up to the Charlie Hebbdo defence.
For me, the very fact they don’t publish them in Scotland shows this for the sham it is.
Boy this Scottish awakening is really exercising their small racist brains. They’re thrashing around like demented glue sniffing morris dancers with Tommy guns.
The look of smug, sneering contempt on the faces of The Chuckle Brothers is spot-on, though.
I’ve had a better look at the cartoon now (on PC with decent resolution and wide screen)
There IS something missing from it. It’s The SNP banana skin that Cameron and Osborne have in front of them while sneering backwards over their shoulders
Well, we’ve got a daily paper now “The National”, if the editor has any testicals (hope it’s a man, if not, sorry ma’am !!, my mistake) he, ops /she should take on the unionist press, and show that it really means what it says about ” supporting independance “.
Oh well as the saving goes if they are after us they are leaving all the other poor sods alone its in their DNA they need someone to hate just unfortunately they picked us again they just don’t get it most of us don’t give a toss heard it seen it all before when we want to leave we will let them know
Who will rid them of us turbulent Scots…?
It’s tempting to retaliate in kind. Let’s not do that. After all, the poor old English have no idea how much they are being manipulated by their Imperial Masters. (Gideon Oliver Osborne comes from one of the oldest Anglo-Irish aristocracies, and is the heir apparent to the Osborne baronetcy – Wikipedia).
https://archive.today/bsXAC
Time to enlighten them?
England are the worst losers you will come across. They don’t accept defeat gracefully. So when they see a large number of SNP MPs sitting in Westminster, they will treat this as a defeat, one nil to Scotland kind of thing.
They will want payback.
What we are seeing in the media at the moment is nothing compared to what is coming down the line.
And we must take full advantage of this racist abuse. We must mix it right up with our fellow “NO Voting” Scots.
O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40051940/GollyJock.jpg
The MSM, with BBC Scotland at the forefront, are leading the anti-Scots and anti-SNP campaign. Had the misfortune to hear some of the new Call Kaye “show” in the car, and the “discussion” about Humza Yousaf” comment by UKIP MEP is shocking. It would appear that BBC don’t have the resources to check the definition of a racist incident:
The definition of a racist incident as given by Sir William MacPherson in his Report on the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry is “any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person.”
This mere fact seems to have been overlooked and for the public broadcaster to air this discussion is nothing more than Jeremy Kyle style confrontation at its worst.
We are in stormy seas until polling day. We need to sent many,many SNP MPs to WM.
Also read that more Ashcroft polls released at 4pm. Given he has recently had “secret meetings” with Dougie Alexander, I will be extremely sceptical at the results from this source from now on. We need to be ever watchful of the Unionist monster in its many guises.
If some English people are being abused while staying is Scotland then it’s disappointing, I certainly do not condone such a thing to happen. I find it far more interesting that Scottish people are increasingly facing some sort of abuse in Scotland.
Nicola Sturgeon due to make another presentation at London School of Economics this morning at 11.00am. Her previous appearance there a few weeks ago was an outstanding success. Does anyone know if today’s presentation will be broadcast live or provide a link?
The interesting thing about this cartoon is that every other party is ridiculed for policies or facets of the leader’s personality.
Alex (not the leader) is mocked purely as a charectorisation of, what some English people see as, a typical Scottish person. Mean, stealing money meant for the English, see you Jimmy hat etc.
Would the cartoon have been so funny if Alex was mocked for his love of curries and the other 3 were dressed as Morris Dancers at the last night of the proms?
If all they can do is continually mock the fact we are Scots then the Union won’t last wrong.
As for racial stereotyping, go on YouTube and try to watch an episode of the Black and White Minstral show without cringing with embarrassment!!!
farrochie wrote:
“They don’t even see that they are continuously weakening the position of the unionist alliance in Scotland by being continuously insulting to all Scots.”
Oh ffs, wheeesht, when your enemy is making a mistake etc etc.
😉
I could accept the view of one or two people on here about the intention of the cartoon being misread,apart from one thing.The four beggars are seen with various lifestyle reasons for being in this state in the first place. Bear with me here.
Only Mr Salmond is seen as the immigrant ,though Milliband and Farage both have immigrant lineage. He is also depicted as the one who has a device to capture money from mid air from the Exchequer( chancellors) ,current and former.which fits in with the storeotype of Scotland being and having been,over subsidised at the expense of others.primarily English.
This is pure and simply racist ,masked by humour.The establishment are taking on the wrong people here. Soon they will know we can bite back as hard as themselves.
Sickening!
Come or not agree more Rev.
My home town is Bath, and I feel increasingly foreign when I go back.
Have been told to go back to my own country, with hoots of laughter from my sis( who has never left,).
Thank god for the bell, and shwartz bros.
Much happier here in Aberdeen watching my team with my English wife who feels most welcome here.
Alex holding a golf club, just noticed that. Subtle. More scottish imagery.
JE SUIS JOHNNY FOREIGNER
Ianbeag
live link to LSE
http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/LSELive.aspx
And Mags Curran told us we would only become “furriners” if we voted YES.
Marcia 10:03am Nicola You Tube link
Thanks for that. Oor Nicola really is a class act and put across her points more eloquently that any of her peers. I really hope the rUK viewers saw her in a different light than portrayed by their MSM.
On a separate note, compare interview style and content of Lorraine Kelly with Kaye Adams.Geez, no wonder Lorraine has endured whilst the other one seems to flit from job to job and is clueless.
Here’s hoping the English public will prove resistant to this ‘help’ in finding their inner bigot. I’m not overly optimistic given the power of the MSM to shape public consciousness.
On the subject of dealing with one’s inner demons and experimenting with lady’s makeup. ,)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bZKEhgieoc
Yes, exactly this – I always said that I was politically (ie my passport) a UK citizen but I felt like a cultural foreigner when I lived in England as soon as I opened my mouth.
@ianbeag
http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/LSELive.aspx
Ianbeag 10:25am
Hopefully, Nicola’s speech should appear here:
http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/LSELive.aspx
Given her high profile surely the BBC and Sky News will be broadcasting it live..?
O/t just heard you can get Nicola on live broadcast via the SNP facebook site ,for those interested.
Humza is thoroughly modern Scottish Asian who has spoken out very clearly against the mindless barbarism of the fruit loops conducting Jihad against life itself in Syria and elsewhere. Coburn, by calling Humza Abu Hamza, is simply perpetuating the racially divisive idea that all Asian are violent and all Asians want to overthrow the West. There was no joke and there was no mistake. It simply represents Coburn’s personal views and antipathy towards all Asians.
I get the feeling Coburn could join the KKK and the BBC would still call it a joke. That said, Coburn is more of a car crash for UKIP than anything we can provide so I’m content for him to stay. UKIP can’t kick him out of his EU seat so we whether in or out of UKIP we are stuck with him for another 4 years.
O/T
Nicola Sturgeon speech from LSE London 11am.
http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/LSELive.aspx
Yes!…..dont leave us we love you and we are better and stronger together.
we had our chance to get away and we blew it!
Nicola’s speech. Thanks for the link folks – looking forward to it as she wows more support ‘abroad’!
I’m struggling here, and I in no way wish to incur the wrath of Stu, but…
I look at the cartoon and frankly, I cannot get riled by it.
In fact it could have depicted Salmond, in the background, rifling through the pockets of the others, looking for any loose change, and still not a ripple of anger would I feel.
Now, there would have been an enforcement of the perceived “thieving Jock coming to a parliament near you”.
Just to be clear, and I dare to say; I am very proud of my Scottish-ness…my culture, my history (in which my ancestors played a very important part in 1313 allowing the following year’s events to take place…nah nah nah)
But my reason for not taking offence?
Because this kind of provocative characterising is fairly norm and has been for a long time.
If we don’t have Charlie Hebdo depicting aspects of Islam in one kind of edgy and close-to-the-line ‘humorous’ form, then we have the likes of Private Eye lampooning everyone and everything in society. Even that dear old institution Punch has been ‘having a go’ at everyone for over 200 years.
If only…if only people could either laugh at themselves, or accept the perception that others have of them (rightly or wrongly) and just move on without rising to some sort of currently fashionable faux offence .
I refuse to be drawn into crowd-bating ‘precious’ mode, to join the petted lip brigade who leap out of their skin the moment a stereotype is (attempted) enforced.
Continue down that road and we will have nothing left to laugh at, let alone be amused by; and we in the UK may end up having the idiotic fringe reacting. No-one wants ever to see a repeat of the events in Paris 2015 in any shape or form, anywhere.
I am certainly NOT condoning the return to outright defamatory depictions and/or comments that seek to demoralise and isolate sections of our communities. But if we are not too careful, we will soon have very little left to envelope into satire, poor or intelligent.
(Note: David Coburn and his apparent “slip of the tongue…humour” is NOT an acceptable example of what I am referring to. His are the actions of a base ignorant insulting racist who provokes no challenging thoughts whatsoever. When he speaks, a toilet flushes)
I appreciate that a “picture tells a thousand words”, but these days we have the disease of political correctness thrust upon us at every opportunity (and I don’t mean via this Wings article. I take Stu’s article as the conduit to open the discussion).
This modern pc paranoia is then closely followed by the other modern day mantra of “my human rights have been breached” (which in many cases really means…”how much money can I make from this apparent slur against me?”)
Unfortunately, and contrary to the underlying message from Stu, I just want to “phwsstt, bollocks” this and all the recent cartoons, and move on.
This won’t be the last…
cearc says:
16 March, 2015 at 10:17 am
We won’t necessarily have any power however many SNP MPs go down.
I would suggest Cearc that we have power already as evidenced by the fact that they are talking about nothing else “down there” and are obviously spooked bigtime; when did that ever happen before?
So whilst I agree they will make life very difficult for the SNP group, by their very actions and exposure of their little englander mentality for everyone to see across the UK, many of the 55% will realise what we were trying to convince them of before the referendum, and many others furth of Scotland will begin to understand there is an alternative to WM corruption and mismanagement.
Now that’s what I call real power – just not as we know it!
The big fail for me is, it’s not funny. Cartoons are meant to be funny, satirical or both. Don’t see it myself.
It’s a shame that we are now being seen, and demeaned in this manner. We always said that we wished to be friends with the rUK if we had gained independence, but all we ever got was a kick in the teeth. With friends like that, who needs enemies.
Westminster think that they are being smart. Even during the referendum, “oh it’s only politics”, just a game to them. Then they seemed to think life would go back to normal. WRONG!
So let them carry on, we’ll just bide our time to issue the kicking that is coming down the line.
wee O/T, just had a conversation on the phone with a young English chap from a catalogue company in England. He was trying to interest me in some saving scheme and I could have free gifts,vouchers etc. Never works for me these vouchers are all for big companies and resturants, we don’t have any in a rural area.
“Ah says he, but there’s vouchers for supermarkets like Morrison’s and Iceland.” “Don’t shop in either Morrison’s or Iceland since the referndum I reply”. Sharp intake of breathe down phone, “oh”. End of conversation. Felt good mind.
STOKER: “Oh ffs, wheeesht, when your enemy is making a mistake etc etc.
;)”
Don’t lose faith in just how cosmically dumb Westminster is prepared to be to satisfy its need for revenge. Past form warrants enormous confidence in their infinite capacity for stupidity.
I think it unarguable that we are in the midst of the second phase of the disintegration of England’s inner empire.
Certainly, the reaction of influential stakeholders in English society make it crystal that we are thought of as vassals in a vassal state. Not equal and not of the body. We are other.
I’d say the above represents the default felt truth of our English cousins. That truth is inherently racist. They feel (and have) dominion over us.
These people should be careful about what they wish for and they have very short memories about where these sort of attitudes lead to, Burma, India, Cyprus, Malaya and dare I say it Ireland. Also do they ever stop to think about where all the £15 Billion + that is being spent on London’s Cross-rail, or how much has been spent on new cross London water and sewage tunnels not to mention Olympics, The ‘Bloody’ Dome etc. Just off to check ‘The Thatch’and make sure my Fiery Cross is ready to light!!!, LOL.
Auld Rock
Good yin McCart and absolutely on the money. They want our tame representation that doesn’t rock their increasingly unstable boat loaded down with debt.
Welcome to ‘One Nation’ Britain. 🙁
kevin murray says:
16 March, 2015 at 10:51 am
Yes!…..dont leave us we love you and we are better and stronger together.
we had our chance to get away and we blew it!
Naw, it was jist a wee practice run!
O/T Remember Lollysmum is going to see Nicola Live so those @ work etc and cannot sneak a looky see, Lollysmum will report chapter and verse .
Canna wait.
If the Artist above is a Yesser , then perhalps his real point was DC & GO sniggering at the rest of us and throwing an occasional crumb which only Alex is able to capitalise on and the rest get zilche ?
I think the best use of this cartoon is to share far and wide with a comment you won’t see it in the Scottish edition. Even that practice is nasty and deceitful.
Totally agree with Rev., It’s not just a cartoon, esp. When it’s part of an organised campaign.
The thing we can control is our response, so utilise that anger to get back in whatever way helps, but do it!
I want May to be here, but am also stressing that people have to translate into action at the ballot box,and send a very strong message. I can’t contemplate another disappointment like last year.
Grizzle-don’t really get your point. So we just have to accept our place in the UK as thieving scrounging penniless jocks and not show any dissent? You are as bad as the proud scots if that is your train of thought.
Tackety Beets, I took a bit of that from the cartoon, that Salmond is clever, and goes over their heads.
Perhaps the immigrant reference is to reflect what the MSM see us as???
Perhaps I’m being generous?
The thing about cartoons is not to be “drawn in”
BOOM! BOOM!
As someone mentioned upthread the artist may have been a Yes voter, if he was then it would appear to be a very clever piece of satire.
Showing the readers down south how we are being perceived from a Scottish perspective may be an attempted antidote to the “other” cartoons from the previous week?
It would be a masterful piece of reverse psychology no?
I have a very different interpretation of the cartoon:
Alex Salmond is an “immigrant” not because he’s Scottish, but because he’s migrating from the Scottish Parliament to the UK Parliament after almost a decade. Likewise, compared to the other three, Mr Salmond looks in fairly good nick: no holes in his shoes, no tattered coat, no flies buzzing around him. And you have to admit, using a golfclub and net shows a fair bit of ingenuity that the other three are clearly lacking.
So on the face of it, I can kind of see a pro-SNP/Alex Salmond/Scotland message in it… in isolation.
The problem here comes with the same problem as the Lewes effigy: for years, if not decades, the cause of Scottish independence and Alex Salmond have been treated as interchangeable, as the dream of one man, that there are literally no other supporters of independence than Alex Salmond and his fawning acolytes. That leads to the logical conclusion that an attack on Alex Salmond is an attack on the entire independence movement – you can’t have it both ways. You can’t equate the entire movement with Alex Salmond, then claim that an attack on Alex Salmond is NOT an attack on independence supporters.
However, since the referendum we’ve seen how the SNP have become not just the de facto party of Scotland, but the third largest in the UK. Therefore, we’ve been seeing the SNP/Alex Salmond and Scottish voters being treated as interchangeable: hence how it’s “Scots holding the balance of power” the metropolitan media are panicking about, not “the SNP holding the balance of power.” Ergo, an attack on Alex Salmond becomes an attack on the people of Scotland.
Combine this with the schizophrenic sentiment that is “those awful Scots are trying to break up MY COUNTRY!” and you have a recipe for alienation and ultimately ruination.
I have to say in this case I think the “immigrant” itself is intended as a joke rather than trying to imply Scots are foreigners, further emphasised by the “long way frae hame” which we know he isn’t, in other words it’s implying the Salmond is only pretending to be an immigrant when he’s not really one.
I earned my “Chippy Jock” wings with Martin Rowson last night.
Rowson can take a flying etc. Last week rancid Guardian bottled it completely with, “we’re not vicious racists at all because our cartoonist is half Scottish,”
Now rancid Graun’s other hired goon goes, you’re all chippy, and no doubt the SUN satirist’s will explain that they’re NOT racists baiters because, yes for sure Scots are well healed beggars feeding off of England but their other three beggars are English, so how can we possibly be very creepy racist neo fascist jock baiters at the SUN?
Personally I’d prefer if all racist cowards currently monstering Scottish people and politicians in the UKOK meeja would just not bother explaining away their own sick and twisted brand of save our tory boy teamGB sweaties, or else.
Rancid Graun also explained to their non existent Scots readership that they defend their pet thug Bell’s right to draw cartoons. Despite no one anywhere ever saying goon’s like Bell should stop.
Its all just one more teamGB “Funny that”
Does that make us Jocky-Foreigners?
@ The Establishment
The peasants are revolting. 🙂
Phat Bollards in Plymouth (Southampton?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8CnW_0Lx4 (WARNIBG: a bit sweary)
Perhaps the new ‘national’ anthem?
Do you think it has yet dawned on those Scottish red tory MPs with brain cells (the so-called high flyers) that there will never again be a senior Scottish politician in a WM government?
It’s just not going to happen again. Not now, not ever.
Joemcg says:
16 March, 2015 at 11:22 am
“Grizzle-don’t really get your point. So we just have to accept our place in the UK as thieving scrounging penniless jocks and not show any dissent? You are as bad as the proud scots if that is your train of thought”.
First thing, “we” are no different to many other countries who are demeaned and stereotyped in derogatory and negative fashion.
You can get hysterical…and I’ll ignore your underlying slur.
cearc @ 1017am. So we are celebrating the end of the war in Europe. Is this not a little late, should we now be celebrating the fact that we have not been at war in Western Europe since 1945. I was going to write Europe but then I remembered the Balkans.
When oh when can we finally put an end to all this celebration of a War most of us (young) elderly were not actually alive for. I sense that it will take for us Independence because I doubt our friends in the South ever will.
Grizzle McPuss
I think you are missing the point about this cartoon. I also am not riled by it. What would be the point of getting riled? The key point is what this cartoon and the many other exmples of xenophobic, ill-informed, panic-stricken commentary tell us about how our unionist opponents are thinking. For that purpose, they are extremely useful.
We should laugh at these cartoons – not because they are funny, but because they show us how fearful our opponents have become. But that is not to belittle the offensive attitudes that they reveal. The stress caused to the Westminster establishment by the Scottsh “problem” is bringing out the worst in them. This plays to our advantage so the irony is that their cartoons ultimately help us to achieve our aims.
The more bashing of Scots we see in the media and from our “national” leaders, the more the 55% are likely to see how we are really regarded.
Tour de Force Nicola. Amazing Lady
Hmm, that’s interesting, was following some of the wiki links on Gideon’s ancestors when I came across a page showing me/us the insignia of the baronets Osborne:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_baronets#/media/File:BaronetUK.jpg
Seems to be thistle-y things around the outside, wonder where they come from, but it’s the red hand on white background I suspect will attract most reader’s attention. Looks kind of familiar.
Enuff said.
Some posts imply innocence in the cartoon. The problem is, if it is intended to be a bit of innocent humour then that intent was sheer stupidity!
Given everything else that has been going on … making all things Scottish a metaphor for scrounging, rebellious, deviant, greedy, interfering, ackward, ungrateful by the MSM and politicians … how could this cartoon be expected to be viewed in isolation?
If the intent was not malicious, then it was astonishly naive to not believe it would be viewed in the a wider context and seen as malicious and part of the ongoing pattern.
Bob McCandless
I thought she came over quite well. The reporter from the Record tried to get her to say Vote Labour in England without success.
Alan Gerrish,
I am not saying that it is a bad thing.
The current panic about ‘The Scots are coming’, is hilarious.
I am mainly pointing out that Milliband is rather an unknown quantity.
Should he prove to be wanting to do things differently then the SNP can have a lot of influence but if he merely wants a slightly-pinkish-more-of-the-same then he will be able to do that with the tories, who would rather vote with him than let those awful ‘Scots’ have any say. The unofficial Lab/Con coalition.
I don’t think that a THREE day celebration of VE day is unconnected. Goverment of National (English) Unity has not been ruled out.
Whatever the outcome it is good for Independence and of great entertainment value.
Bittie Glakit
Brilliant work. I can’t draw a straight line without a ruler. What a talent. 🙂
Took the witch Maggie for my screensaver. Has anyone else noticed how much talent there is out there since the referendum.
🙂
TD…I refer you to my comment…
“Because this kind of provocative characterising is fairly norm and has been for a long time.
If we don’t have Charlie Hebdo depicting aspects of Islam in one kind of edgy and close-to-the-line ‘humorous’ form, then we have the likes of Private Eye lampooning everyone and everything in society. Even that dear old institution Punch has been ‘having a go’ at everyone for over 200 years”
So, I agree with you, these cartoons and all this humour genre, they do indeed reflect how others see ‘us’ (whoever us is)…GOOD or BAD…RIGHT or WRONG.
We need them to continue and display their perceptions of us. Know your enemy…
Luigi says:
“Do you think it has yet dawned on those Scottish red tory MPs with brain cells (the so-called high flyers) that there will never again be a senior Scottish politician in a WM government?
It’s just not going to happen again. Not now, not ever.”
I agree! No voters need to take this on board.
IF SLab survive, IF Labour form a WM government, IF Scotland doesn’t become independent … then we might see the odd token Scot in the cabinet. We never see Scots occupy many ministerial positions. We will never see Scots hold senior positions. And, there will definitely NEVER be a Scots UK Prime Minister again! Not in our lifetimes, anyway!
Grizle:
I think the front page of The National sums up things pretty well. Real substance rather than a Jokey Jocky ‘toon
INEVITABLE
Nearly 70% of Scots believe we WILL
be an independent country
See the fear, smell the fear, taste the fear. The gig is up and only the death throws of the corpse remains
Nicola nails it at the LSE.
Brilliant speech, I am so pleased she is my Party’s leader.
Putting SCOTLAND FIRST!
@ Grizzle
“We need them to continue and display their perceptions of us. Know your enemy…”
I’d agree with that.
Cartoons are powerful communicators of message, they are also powerful mirrors. They reflect on the artist quite as effectively as they convey a message to an intended audience.
o/t
Alex Salmond making Jeremy Vine uncomfortable on radio 2.
Skeletor on next!
Helena Bron,
I take it that you won’t be waving a UJ and singing Rule Britannia?
They’ll be so sad in London to see a Frostie reception to their latest G-R-R-R-Reat Britain project.
“The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept”
Lieutenant General David Morrison (Australian Armed Forces)
If some of us have to work that hard to wrangle a positive meaning from the cartoon above when it was not published in the Scottish edition – it seems a little contrived and insincere of the cartoonist to make his work so Machiavellian.
Watched Miss Sturgeon’s speech at the LSE – and apart from one idiot during QA session whose rank impertinence was apologised for by the LSE – it was an exemplar in articulate clarity and reason.
Re: Nicola Speech.
Just had a thought, you will NEVER see Kezia Drugdeal putting forward a case like that for a better Scotland, EVER.
And that is the difference between the SNP/YES movement and Scottish Labour.
From the Mail
https://archive.today/NpSwB
If true, this implies Lab MPs plan to allow the Tories in (perhaps even backing them) rather than work with the SNP. The article doesn’t state that, but by implication, it is the only possible outcome without SNP support.
Christian Wright says:11:01 am
“I’d say the above represents the default felt truth of our English cousins. That truth is inherently racist. They feel (and have) dominion over us.”
Anecdote from a friend in the USA who was campaigning for Yes(in Oregon!) at a fair. This person from a certain country not so far from here came up to her and said ‘What are you doing? We OWN them you know!’Another charmer.
The essential(actually existential) choice remains: Scotland? Or Scotlandshire?
There once was an MP named Shapps
Whose narrative had some big gaps
He said End of Story
But our chum the Tory
Saw his gambit sadly collapse
This is worrying.
How many days has it been since Jim Murphy hasnt had something useless to say to fill Scottish Media headlines?
They do know Salmond’s not running things any more, don’t they? I mean, the number of times I’ve seen his image being used recently is increasingly making me wonder if anybody (in the media, at least) is actually paying any attention to ANYTHING that has gone on north of the border since September?
As an ex-pat, I’ve always thought of myself as an “immigrant,” but in the traditional, “someone from elsewhere” sense of the word – it’s a badge of honour. Obviously now it’s a label meaning “lazy, job-stealing, potential terrorist” and it’s worrying to see it being applied in this sense. Am I one of “them” now?
For the record, I have stolen a job. And a woman. And I’ve multiplied. I’M IN THE GENE POOL NOW, BITCHES! MUAHAHAHA!
As an interesting exercise, (although racist and self defeating), it would be fascinating to see Chris to do one of these cartoons in reverse.
Just to see the reaction from ‘darn sarf’ and from the MSM.(not advocating this in any way).
@ frogesque
The National headline in stark contrast to the one from the Scottish edition of the Daily Express (I think?) on the same subject. Along the lines of, “69% fear break up of UK.”
Nicola well and truly boxed in Labour today. She told the audience that she would work with Labour for the benefit of the UK as a whole ,and not just Scotland. If Labour pull up the ladder at this time,they will be seen as abandoning the welfare of the citizens all across these islands out of party self interest.
I would not want to be Ed Milliband making that decision. You could put money on their complete annihalation in future.
The secret now is to stay calm. The MSM are doing our job for us.
The Scottish branch offices of The MSM are so clueless they think/hope their insults aren’t picked up in Scotland. They act as if IT doesn’t exist.
The momentum is with the Scots, the SNP and Independence.
Soon, the point of ‘No Return’ will be reached,
as the Union relationship suffers under the torrent
of English abuse.
Day by day, the true nature of the Union is being revealed.
What England is saying while looking down their noses at us,
is ‘Hey, bitch, don’t leave. We’ll be broke without you.’
Why would any self-respecting Scot rely on the goodwill of an English cartoonist to illustrate fairness?
The fact that so many here are niggled by the example above is evidence of how much we are dominated by English news, English issues, endless English navel gazing.
As others have said, it is never trivial when there is a widespread drip feed of stereotype against a group. The media is powerful in shaping opinion and that is easily seen in the history of sexism and racism, if nothing else.
However it is also clear that there is no reason to expect truth, responsibility or impartiality in the MSM. They are not interested in those concepts, no matter what they say. Their concerns are elsewhere, though not all identical.
What is also true, though, is that public opinion does not always remain static, despite this mechanism. What is disparagingly referred to as Political Correctness has also proved powerful. It is, of course, disparaged by that same MSM which does not wish to see any such change, because it outlines the limits of their influence.
Sexism is not so routine as it used to be (though not so rare as I would like, nor so unacceptable as some like to pretend). Racism was heading the same way but has re-emerged on the back of the “war on terror”.
“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”. What that means to me is that reversal of any gains is always lurking and always likely: for the ongoing big questions we truly do have at least two strong position perpetually in opposition to each other. I see those two positions variously described at different periods in history. Sometimes framed as class interests; sometimes as a religious conception of human nature: at bottom, for me, these different ways of describing the human condition reflect our fundamentally dual nature: we are a social species and so are hard wired for cooperation; we are also individuals and so are hard wired for selfishness. These fundamentals are in constant opposition and sometimes one is in the ascendant and sometimes the other.
Divide and rule is such a clever tactic for the selfish contingent: because it does not wholly deny the cooperative instinct, which would be doomed to failure for the same reasons as Canute. Instead it embraces those ideas, but distorts them by re-defining who is “us”. Under its influence we can persuade ourselves that we are in fact social and cooperative: but those processes only apply to “us”. “Us” can be variously defined to exclude another gender, another race, another religion, or another family. And so JK Galbraith’s insight
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
To me, the importance of such cartoons and media representations lies there. It matters
Couldn’t watch the NS LSE lecture live because of customer meetings. 🙁
Does anyone have a U choob or similar link to watch our goddess breathing fire this morning. I can’t find anything.
Been dropping in and out of the Herald (yes, I know, but it’s interesting to see what others are saying) and done some fencing with BLT commentators. It seems many of them think that Nicola has been “annoying” the English. Although they can’t actually say what she has done.
The nay-sayers are STILL re-fighting the referendum. Still think that English businesses would all pack up dealing with Scotland, for reasons which do not make rational sense, but t is there opinion.
I think they would agree wit the tone and implication of this cartoon. Whatever else it did, the Referendum did not manage to eradicate the “cringe”
Grizzle
It is true that there have been examples of anti-Scottish commentary in the media for many years and de facto discrimination against Scots by the establishment and governing institutions. But the incidence of these behaviours has undoubtedly increased during and since the referendum campaign. It is the rate of offence that is the new phenomenon.
I think we are largely in agreement – we should not get overly excited about these cartoons or the other slurs on our character and nationality. Instead, we should view them as a symptom of the fact that we have their attention and that they are being forced to confront the constitutional and economic anomolies and injustices in the status quo. Currently, they find it easier to try to insult Scots and particularly the SNP than to do anything to deal with the anomolies. An emotional reaction is always easier than a thoughtful measured response. But by indulging their emotions and fears in this way, they give us insight to their weaknesses.
The more they expose themselves (so to speak), the more Scots will turn against them.
We can open a new line of attack Jim Murphy & Tony Blair Iraq
heres a great tweet
Tony Blair quitting as Middle East Peace Envoy. Let us all hope the region doesn’t descend into radical extremism, occupation and civil war.
Nicholas Watt – ‘Guardian’? ‘Nicola is more difficult mock than Alex’. LSE website.
Nicholas Watt is easy to mock, as an out of touch ignorant London Luvie, who knows nothing about Scottish politics. Every word uttered is a lie. Who do they think they are? Totally annoying.
They will vote Labour in the rest of the UK to get Nicola, Alex & Co, instead of a bunch of liars.
Really? So no-one else spotted the dig at Miliband for being Jewish in that cartoon?
Slightly o/t but another example of Scots represenration in MSM.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2996451/Did-Gerry-Adams-jail-free-card.html
I remember this clown sayng in September last year that Unionists had to put Yes stickers on their windows to prevent them being attacked by savage Nats.
Another horrible individual that likes to play the Scottish card when it suits him and another reason why I don’t follow Scotland at football, rugby or any sport for that matter.
Oh and the Caledonians were Welsh Mr McKay.
I think the interpretation of the word ‘immigrant’ is wrong here. Surely it just refers to Alex heading to Westminster from Holyrood.
The depiction of Alex is not negative – as someone else said earlier, he is not scruffy or surrounded by flies like Clegg and Miliband.
The cartoonist (Steve Bright) is Scottish and was pro-indy. I remember seeing a cartoon he did with an image of a strong muscly hand grasping a thistle with YES in the background.
I’m with Grizzle here…
It’s an anti Cameron/Tory cartoon, not an anti-SNP one. Each of the leaders begs for support, but only AS has thought of the way to get it. Meanwhile the Tories wander on disdainfully…
It is very frustrating when you cannot communicate with these right wing lunatics who run the UK media.
They cannot be so stupid not to know how stupid their remarks and cartoons are, but they seem happy to continue with this tosh, as the average Englander swallows it up.
Today John Bull can only recall who the page 3 bird was yesterday. Beyond that they can get a university place for £9K per annum.
The Cartoon shows Alex to be out leader- Nonsense!
Fails to see that Scots contribute £500 more per annum per head than Paddy, Taffy, or John Bull.
Fails to remember the pleading the begging the lies the deceit that united the one sided media pitched at us 6 months ago?
Fails to see the ” no support at all” Lib Dems put this Tory Government in Power, and have kept them there.
Fails to see that Scots wanted to have only control over their own GDP making it impossible for alleged subsidies.
Fails to qualify why they insist on keeping our country captive when we could have stayed united but shared only our Defence and Foreign Affairs Budgets?
Fail to recognise the Corruption between Westminster and their Constabulary. Paedophile Rings in abundance not being investigated nor prosecuted, Hillsborough Disaster,
Knighthoods for cash, Tax avoiders paying political levy’s
etc.
No let’s demonise Alex for giving some of his pension rights to charity.
We can have decent people in power doing things like that!
Last Rant-Why if their cartoon is valid is it not in te Scottish edition.
Do they want to take money from these low life scavengers
All of these so called newspapers and Westminster labelled Gandhi as a Political Agitator, and wanted his arrested or even killed.
After he beat the tyrannical murders of Westminster, they now think he was a great man worthy of a Statue?
Same situation with Nelson Mandela who’s country was another rape, murder and pillage target for Westminster. Once classed as a Terrorist, now father of his country.
Be Proud true Scots!
Westminster is treating you as they did the hero’s above.
Fight on relentlessly and the outcome will be exactly the same. Westminster will deliver our demands or they will be expelled from our country for ever.
I’ll start by declaring an interest. I am a Scot who has lived in England for 41 years now. By the standards of where I live, I have a distinctive Scottish accent but it is quite muted when compared to the folks where I come from.
In my time south of the border, I have only once come across a person who was racist against Scots and this woman was a geordie, living in exile in Yorkshire. She was atypical of geordies, most of whom are great in that she was a nasty piece of work.
I have spent over those 41 years,an average of about two weeks each year in Scotland and two weeks on holiday elsewhere in the world. It is only in Scotland that I have found people taking offence at my accent and describing me as an “Inglish Bastard” and telling me that I should not be able to buy a drink in the pub in which they were drinking. In one case, visiting a relative near Cumbernauld, I was invited to have a fight with one particularly obnoxious character who was going to teach me that the English were not going to drink in Scotland.
The anti-English vitriol which came out, predominantly from the independence supporting side of the referendum campaign has led many of the folks where I live now to suggest that Hadrian’s Wall, or something similar running along the border needs to be rebuilt, often jokingly asking me which side of the wall I will be working on.
It appears that if the Scots do not “screw the nut” as we used to say when I was a lad, then there will be another referendum in which the Scots will have no voice asking whether they should be allowed to remain in the UK.
TD
Again, I agree with you that the Scottish attack has been on the increase. Who knew…?
Given that nearly half of us stood up last September in our blue painted faces and shouted…”they may take our lives, but they’ll never take… OUR FREEDOM!”…well, what do we expect?
It did happen like that…didn’t it? I’m sure there’s an amusing depiction somewhere that paints this accurate picture?
I’m just away to liberate the moths from my wallet.
@midgehunter:
Me too please – all the feeds were overloaded when I tried.
This is all part of seeing us as ‘other’. On one level it’s fine as we want to be ‘other’ politically, in being independent.
However, this is ‘other’ in a racial way which is a different ball game altogether. We should take a moment to reflect that this is normality for our minority communities, particularly those of islamic faith groups.
The main concern is that it appearing in all mainstream media, so a sure sign it’s from political briefing, in that cosy establishment way. To what end?
Everything is pointing to another referendum, soonish.
By stereotyping us and presenting us as other, they would have massive support in England to denying the legitimacy of any future referendum. Those in England would be conditioned to thinking of us as ‘other’ – ‘ginger rats’, ‘rampaging Nats’, incestous beggars, etc. etc.
If there’s a future referendum without an equivalent to the Edinburgh Agreement, we will be donating to this site for years to come.
Calls have already been made to outlaw a future referendum.
@kininvie
Yes, agree. I didn’t see it as anti-SNP or anti-Scottish for that matter (makes a nice change)
Ed Miliband rules out a coalition deal with the SNP.
Newsflash for Ed Miliband, the SNP has already said there will not be a coalition, just a loose arrangement.
@kininvie
Agree – I didn’t see it as anti-SNP or anti-Scottish (makes a nice change)
ronald alexander mcdonald says:
16 March, 2015 at 12:46 pm
The secret now is to stay calm. The MSM are doing our job for us.
That’s probably the most sensible piece of advice today so far. All this jockery and scoteotyping is designed to hurt the red tories’ prospects south of the border – and it’s working! It’s working so well that the red tories will not be able to form a majority government in May. The MSM may push it further even, to convince UKIP voters to fall back in line and lend Cameron their votes. If that happens, then we are looking at a big Tory majority.
There is one rather large elephant in the room, however, one that is coloured bright yellow and threatens to make Scotland ungovernable, should Cameron win his majority. By the time the MSM realise this and try to rescue the red tories north of the border, it may be too late.
For me this is an open and shut case of a cartoonist on hallucinogens.
What a disgusting portrayal of political attitudes in today’s day and age..
I mean who in the hell in their right mind thinks that David Cameron would be throwing any sort of coinage in the direction of someone in need.
Some folk need to wise up.
Cochrane in the Telegraph. (slightly more interesting than Torrance in the Herald)
https://archive.today/jTW6X
What! No SNP coalition with labour. Ed you were never offered one.
@ Donald Urquhart
By stereotyping us and presenting us as other, they would have massive support in England to denying the legitimacy of any future referendum.
Perhaps. But where would the support for denying the result come from, in this scenario? According to the tale currently told, the rUK taxpayer is paying a massive subsidy to support us: and we are not even grateful!
If there were a referendum and the vote was Yes, do you honestly think there would be political will to ignore that result? Is it not a bit more likely that the majority would say “good riddance” if this kind of propaganda takes?
I know it is not the majority of rUK voters: but outcomes are heavily influenced by those who make the most noise.
If the aim is to deny us self determination I think this might backfire in rUK. Just a thought
@sonas and Kininvie
OK: but it wasn’t aimed at you. Question is how would those in rUK interpret it?
Grassroots Unionist organisations, made up primarily, but not exclusively, of traditional Tory supporters, have sprung up in several parts of Scotland
From the Telegraph article linked above.
Has anyone noticed this? It has passed me by
BBC report on the Milliband vague statement. The reporter must have mentioned Alex Salmond 7 or 8 times. Hilarious.
Sorry O/T, am I the only one who thinks this stinks?
Look at the names who are promoting it, it seems to me to be a move to control the social media. Primed for propaganda control of the population. Or am I just wrong?
I am feeling dense today. What are you talking about, Les Wilson?
OK so it’s annoying but think about the implications of this. What they’re saying is every other party and by implication their supporters in the UK is a scrounging beggar living on the largesse of the two Bullingdon Brothers. Further implying that the money they extract from the public is theirs by right and the public should be grateful for any crumbs which might sit well when it’s Scotland being treated with that contempt but not when it’s the majority of the UK.
“SNP MSP Humza Yousaf has written to Prime Minister David Cameron calling on him to officially rule out any type of post-election deal with UKIP.”
Nice one 🙂
You would flip a coin for heads or tails you throw a coin at someone so his cartoon isn’t correct is it
Ed Milliband trying to appear in charge by ruling out a coalition with SNP, which was never on the cards anyway.
“no SNP MPs had any plans to be in any Gov of Eds or anyone else”.
The BBC spent the whole of last week telling us their figures showed we were just as racist as folk in England
It didn’t seem to catch on so today they tell us that we definitely are racist but we just hide it better in Scotland
That led me to think if we are able to hide it that well how did they find out
Then i had another thought, funnily enough the same thought i had last week
Do you think there’s an Election coming up and the BBC are not being truthful, could that be even possible that the BBC are trying to cause trouble where there is none
Perish the F..K..G Thought eh
On another quick note
I really am enjoying the grimace on Jackie Burds twisted puss every time she has to say the First Ministers name
complete and total hatred and bitterness
Things just keep getting better
Ed statement is a none story nothing has changed except for the gullible ‘darn sarf’.
As noted : BBC Scotland website.
The BBC’s assistant political editor Norman Smith noted that Mr Miliband had not ruled out a more informal arrangement whereby the SNP could offer a Labour minority government support on a vote-by-vote basis, known as “confidence and supply”.
Chris Mason on Radio 2 starting to get it ?
Chris States “1 in 16 of the voters in Scotland are now SNP members ”
Kaaa- ching !
No coalition.
The reason the SNP can’t accept a formal coalition is that they would then participate in the Cabinet and in ministerial teams with a number of ministerial positions eg Secretary of State, Minister of State or Parliamentary Undersecretary.
All ministers are formally bound by Cabinet Collective Responsibility. They are not allowed to speak against an agreed government policy (eg Trident), and would have to resign to do so.
I think this effectively stops the SNP and Labour having a formal coalition, hence the possible “supply & confidence” deal.
I have noted also, especially on BBC Radio, in the last few days that the term ‘FM’ and ‘Scottish Government’ are rarely used.
Nicola Sturgeon and SNP being substituted. Good old Auntie!
Got to admire the spin of the MSM in the article from The Herald. Milliband rules out and SNP coalition.
The SNP have already suggested a confidence and supply type set up.
Miliband rules out coalition with the SNP is not news, nor is it correct. Saying there will be no SNP ministers in the cabinet, is not saying he would not do an ad-hoq policy by by policy agreement, with the SNP. He is merely stating the obvious, that the SNP would not be in his cabinet. Why would they want to be or need to be. Nothig has changed. He will not be so fussy if he is scrambling for the keys to number 10 anyway.
Monday 16 March 2015
Labour leader Ed Miliband has ruled out a coalition with the Scottish National Party and said there would be “no SNP ministers” in any government he leads.
@ farrochie
Not to mention the fact that the SNP oppose the austerity so cheerfully embraced by the Labour party
There is not enough common ground for formal coalition so why would the SNP want such a thing?….oh, right, ministerial motors. That did it for the lib dems and so it must be important
EBC MSM are trying to bring ECK to the fore so they can bring out the “we hate AlexSalmond AGAIN. Shows how worried they are. Nicola is the leader and Alex is just one of the foot soldiers.
Desperate times require desperate measures.
“About 98% of the English nation have a similar view to the cartoon above. ”
No they don’t, they aren’t all blinkered by the press.
Cochrane is referring to a group called Forward Together which is active in the Perth area and another one started by Edinburgh based Fettes educated Felicity Kane who returned to Scotland in 2011 after 15 years in South Africa called Scotland on Union. Both are trying to promote tactical voting to keep the SNP surge in check and are calling for an alliance of Unionists.
Ms Kane seems to be horrified that in her absence Scotland is less British than it was when she was at school at Fettes and aims to put us back in our boxes. She has a background in PR and advertising.
They are basically the tweed and green welly brigade of toffs. But they are holding their noses to be open to support from Labour Unionists too.
Using social media.
Excellent article. This is how it has always been, just scratch the surface.
Meanwhile, Ed Miliband has ruled out a coalition with the SNP, which was never on offer, except in the febrile minds of the English media.
I haven’t had time to read all of the comments. This is what the British State has always done when one of the colonies has shown any sign of resistance to it’s rule
First, demonise the leaders of the resistance movement in the eyes of the British people. Having achieved that the State can then take whatever action it deems necessary. The resistance is lead by the SNP in this case.
What sympathy can we expect from the English public after the brainwashing they have received over the last few weeks. Now we are being portrayed as sponging foreigners, rather than just Sweaties, we can take what we get.
After the referendum, we are not to be trusted. Wogs begin at Carlisle.
Thanks, Sunniva
So “grassroots”is a bit of a misnomer, then?
@Tackety Beets
Chris States “1 in 16 of the voters in Scotland are now SNP members
Chris is obviously wrong then, considering there are 4m+ voters in Scotland, I suspect he meant 1 in 16 of Yes voters which then would have been correct at around 100,000 members to 1.6m Yes voters.
Obviously the author of this article cannot see the irony of his own post (nor many of the commentators on here). You complain of stereotypes in the “English” (read UK) media yet produce unsupported stereotypical claims of your own such as:
“But our status in the eyes of a UKIP-driven England has fallen since then. To our increasingly xenophobic neighbours south of the border, we’re now outsiders. Alien parasites. The enemy within.”
Firstly England isn’t UKIP driven, they will return less than half a dozen MPs at best, so that’s patently nonsense. Increasingly xenophobic? On what basis do you make that claim – a cartoon in the f-ing Sun but not stats or substantial evidence to back it up. Tarring England the xenophobic brush is no worse than the UK media branding us all “scrounging jocks” I know the fact that a significant majority of our own country men saw through the Yes campaign and voted to remain British but seriously its time to remove the chip from your should and stop blaming the English for our ills.
I know its in your nationalist interest to inflame tensions with the English, but it doesn’t mean its right. Grow up.
My version of the cartoon would have been Osborne throwing four coins, Salmond catches them all and then distributes them to his three ‘companions’, and saying ‘You wouldn’t have this done if you’d caught them all, eh boys?’
Wonder when we can officially hear from the European Courts over this as it clearly breaches the anti-discrimination laws: In accordance with Article 1 of the Framework Decision, “each Member State shall take the measures necessary to ensure that the following intentional conduct is punishable:
(a) publicly inciting to violence or hatred directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin;
(b) the commission of an act referred to in point (a) by public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other material;
It might only be a cartoon, but Brighty recognizes the INGENUITY of the SCOT.
@Fiona.
Yes, definitely.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/video-thousands-attend-edinburgh-no-vote-event-1-3542480
Sorry not techie enough to do the archive thing.
The pains and sufferings of these people as they faced the traumas of independence!
Thepnr,
Maybe he’s using the new register!
Polls 44% against 26%? Approx 1 in 2 of possible voters? Depends on turnout. All 4million electorate don’t vote.
SNP 100,000 members as % of 1.600,000 YES voters = 1 in 16, but NO voters will also vote SNP.
@farrochie 16 March, 2015 at 1:59 pm
I’ve understood Confidence and Supply and Cabinet Collective Responsibility for quite a while, but I now realize I don’t know how coalitions in PR based governments work.
Am I correct in thinking that the notion of Collective Responsibility is uniquely British/English? And since we don’t have a Written Constitution, how is that enshrined in law? Is it possible to run a government without Cabinet Collective Responsibility?
Anybody know about this?
A few years ago I might have been offended by that cartoon and the rest of the anti Scots racism now so prevalent in the msm, now I honestly couldn’t care less though it’s the type of thing that needs to be shared more widely throughout Scotland so that some of the misinformed and uninformed get a taste of what they really voted no for.
The MSM’s anti-Scottish agenda makes it crystal clear that they’re terrified of genuine democracy taking hold in Scotland. We’re messing with their heads and it’s great!
Who knows what kind of crass, arrogant stupidity they’ll come up with next to help us to unshackle Scotland from the rotting corpse of the union. The union is irrevocably broken. The union is in all but name dead.
Cameron/Osbourne walking off with the public loot. The reason they are in politics. To line their associates pockets with public money. The Royal Mail Pension fund sell off Osbournes best man and brother- in-law made £Millions (Bank who handled the sale). HS2 – Osbournes’s father-in law is a consultant making £Millions. Cameron’s family tax evaders. Hedge Funds. Donating £Millions to Tory Party without tax evasion the Tory/Unionist Party would not exist.
frogesque says:
It’s a cartoon. I don’t think we should get too precious about it. The artist is merely reflecting the views of their paymaster
Spot on especially when you remember that the “paymaster” and AS are bessa mates.
What is also frightening is the assumption that all folk resident in England form their views from cartoons in the Sun. Not sure who is doing the “stereotyping” here.
The Forward united Together people. Who as far as I have seen on TV are one Northern Irishman and a posh Englih lady on Scotland Tonight.
Are people of privilage and prejudice. An unholy alliance of bigots and too posh to wash types. They are horrified that the establishment in Scotland might be crushed and the poor get a voice and a reason to live.
They say they want to keep Scotland British. How can you make the 70% of Scots who don’t feel British the way you wantthem to feel. This is just crazy fascism. If they are democrats then let Scotland grow in it’s natural direction. The truth is these people are the JK Rowlings of this world. They live in a bubble of Pimms, Jack Wills and Brigadoon Scotia.
The rest of us inhabit the real Scotland an thank god fro that.
And whilst we’re on the subject, look at where the coin would land if Alex wasn’t there to save them it’s either on the head of one or in the ear of the other.
Why dont the SUN editors grow a pair and print this pish in the Scottish edition?
They seem to be slightly supportive of the SNP in our edition,all about sales and money I guess.
I assume the Sun newspaper,is having a somewhat tasteless joke,at the expense of Scots,but it seems quite a regular event,beginning with the onset of the Scottish referendum.
Its a case of “Know your place Jock”
Regarding Nicola Sturgeon at the LSE
I’m bemused by the fact that the BBC have ignored the fact that Nicola stated during the Q&A session that the SNP would not go into a active coalition with Labour and that it would only support Labour on a case by case basis
I would reckon that the BBC ignored this as they had already seen what Milliband was going to say, so wanted to maintain the appearance that Milliband was in control.
The BBC didn’t even bother covering Nicola Sturgeon at the LSE, which is a tad strange given that we are closing in on the General Election.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-31897835
@ thepnr
Yes good point Alex , I’m at work and just caught a short bit,on passing the staff room . I’m sure thats what he said . You are right he must have meant the 1.6M Yessers .
Radio 2 Vine had loads of Scottish people in today so worth a listen on i-player tonight .
So …. 4m Voters , 1 in 40 are SNP members , that can’t be right ? I’m astonished !
Ok then where to start. Think I’ll deal with this toon first & then a separate post on Nicola at the LSE.
I don’t see this as racist, the artist is paying Alex a compliment but you have to look closely at it to see it.At first glance, it looks as though he is disparaging all four seated. Look closer & it shows Alex as being the canny Scot, demonstrating his ingenuity in catching the crumbs from the sitting government.
Alex has a reputation for being clever & seeing things that others dismiss as nonsense or useless. Alex doesn’t do that-he sees opportunities. Look at the way he used the rules of etiquette in the Budget speech when he was last at WM. Now look at his use of the golf club with added extension. Who else would think to do that-clearly none of the other 3.
But think of that coin as voters-Alex/SNP is capturing voters from the other 3 in a big way.
Cameron looks very well fed aka fat, jowly & well dressed, accompanied by his chancellor who forgot to shave. We know that Osborne is in charge of Tory election strategy but are we being told that he is the source of the Nazi tag that SNP are labelled as? We know that during indyref tories got the red tories to do their dirty work for them so it wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Or is it just that the tories have behaved like Nazi’s towards the sick & vulnerable in society for the last 5 years?
The other three look miserable as they are right now with little hope to buoy them up. Look at Alex’ face-eyebrows raised, a bit of a smirk-he looks as though he knows what he is doing & does something about it. He is planning. The others are just sitting there accepting their fate.
Alex is not wearing jackboots as someone said up thread-he is wearing Doc Martins as he always does when out & about. Look at his feet if you see him live-he’s showing he isn’t daft-he wears them for comfort. Whilst the others are wearing wholly inadequate dress shoes i.e. not fit for purpose (bit like them really).
Someone upthread mentioned the two kitchens thing as being a dig of some sort. It is- a dig at Milliband that’s where it started originally with him saying he had two kitchens.
Nicola was asked a couple of hours later & her response on Twitter was brilliant-she just referred all enquirers to her husband Peter Murrell as ‘he is more acquainted with it than I am’.
On the face of it this toon can be seen as racist & will be because everyone is being conditioned to see that but when you look at the detail it suggests a grudging admiration of Alex in comparison to the others in the toon & not just the seated ones.
“England isn’t UKIP driven”
“Driven” != “voting”. I’m a fan of using the words I actually mean, not the weird completely different ones people sometimes inexplicably read.
Nicola has been saying since the Hydro event that 1 in every 50 voters is now a member of SNP & I would hazard a guess that it’s probably down to about 1 in 40ish level now given that the SNP numbers just keep on rising.
I have observed this trend for some time now. It continues unabated with my expulsion from the increasingly paranoid and xenophobic “political betting” after suggesting quite rightly that Westminster was nothing more than haven for Brit Nat child molesters and crooks.
Lollysmum ,
thanks , kinda what I saw after calming down and taking a second look .
My post was brief but you catch the detail so much better than I could .
@UKFred – good one was that your attempt at satire?
When I was a lad – pure Nrth English – got many many relatives there so I know.
@UKFred – BTW ‘screw the nut’ is British Army slang
How wonderful … all these reactions to a drawing. (And a better ‘drawn’ cartoon than Bell’s effort. 8 out of 10 … but must try harder!) However, “He was only following orders,” just won’t wash … it didn’t work in Nuremberg … and it won’t work here. Just as saying that Kaye Adams is a badly programmed BBC robot may legitimately be viewed as ‘unfair’ … or not. Or that Jackie Bird’s left breast being four inches lower than the right is a secret sign that All is Well with the BBC Scotland heel-dogs and their pro-Westmonster Lords and Masters or may be viewed as an unfortunate, but accurate, observation. That is the kind of thing artists do.They hold up a mirror to us all; they ask us to perhaps consider moving our viewpoint for a moment; to question the status-quo. No real need to ‘go off on one’, just maybe have a wee think… and then, think some more.
@lollysmum – perfect interpretation of the cartoon. Spot on!
Facts:
1) Brighty is Scottish, Glasgow born, Perthshire raised and resident for most of his life before being exiled to the Land Of Engs in his early 40s. The ONLY reason he didn’t vote Yes in the Indy Ref is that he didn’t actually have a vote.
2) This cartoon has been taken in isolation and out of context. It was drawn to accompany the weekly Kavanagh Column, which has NEVER been published in the Scottish edition, no matter what its subject.
3) Today’s column (and hence, the cartoon) was about the current electoral prospects of the Tories after this week’s forthcoming Budget Statement, and barely mentions Scotland or the SNP. It’s more than a little mischievous of Stuart Campbell to present it here outwith that context.
4) It’s depiction of Alex Salmond as a crafty ‘Westminster Immigrant’ was incidental to the main thrust of the cartoon and the theme it accompanies, and drawn with affection and respect.
5) Brighty is well aware of the current SNP heirarchy, and has recently drawn Nicola Sturgeon with her hand up a Miliband ventriloquist dummy’s rear end, pulling his strings – this was not drawn in any xenophobic racist fear, but hope.
That’ll do to be going on with. How do I know these things? I was that Soldier Boy…
@ Lollysmum Your to well taught for the time you,ve been on this site,did you put that cartoon under ah microscope.xx + winky thing.
Ah, the old rebuild Hadrian’s Wall cliche. Love it, I do, just love it. Know why? Cos’ I live north of the wall, in England.
And I can tell you there’s plenty of indigenous English here who are getting a bit fed up with the notion too, and beginning to feel they’ve been abandoned by London, like Scotland, and seeing that they might get a better deal as even an enclave in a rich, independent country like Scotland.
What does it say when members of your own nation can’t even get where their own border with a neighbouring country lies, and simply ‘give’ where you live, considering yourself to be in part of said nation, to the neighbour?
I do hope UKFred is better educated than the commenters he reports as saying this, and really he ought to perhaps say something in his curious accent, that is taken for Scots in England but English in Scotland. I’ve lived in England for 19 years, I go back to Scotland regularly, I have never lost my accent, I have never had a problem with it even working in London, despite some people thinking it was from Belfast.
Perhaps the problem wasn’t your accent but the pub choice in Cumbernauld? I’ve been in some dodgy pubs around Scotland, plenty of arseholes just looking for some nugget to take their bait for a fight.
Every time I hear Hadrian’s Wall mentioned I feel like screaming.
I cannot imagine how the good english people north of it feel.
It is quite extraordinary that so many people in England don’t know where the border is.
Edward
I think you will find that BBC weren’t invited to cover Nicola’s speech at the LSE.
They have events there every day with several lecture theatres in use simultaneously. They have a large Media Dept which covers all of those events & then posts them to the LSE Channel on YouTube.What need would they have for the BBC? To my mind, LSE would want the whole thing broadcast & by doing it themselves they can control that.
I was in that audience today. Bbc nope but the rest of MSM were including Cockers & Torquil-he was in the cheap side seats on the aisle several rows back. Me -well I got there early-the first two rows were reserved for members of LSE’s faculty & I was in the next row right in the centre of the auditorium. Great view.
Torcuil was slapped down by Nicola when he tried to get her to say people in England should vote for Labour.She refused & said in England- Greens, Wales- Plaid.
The woman next to me in her early 50’s I guess was from one of the many Depts in LSE-she kept saying I want to vote SNP but I live in London. We need an SNP.Every time I looked her way, she had this great big smile on her face from what she was hearing. So we told her about Scottish grassroots organisations like Common Space, Bella, Wings, Women for Indy & others & communities growing their own representatives instead of looking to parties to provide them. She was fascinated.
On the way into LSE, I met a Scot who had travelled down from Birmingham to be there.She originally left Scotland 10 years ago & now lives in Bath. She is trying to follow a sustainable lifestyle doing coppicing & charcoal burning but she also writes articles.She’s also a member of Common Weal. So I said to contact Stu via Contact page-she knows Wings but never realised that it was run from Bath.
Rev-for info her name is Karen-she doesn’t have internet access as she lives in the back of beyond & only has electricity when the generator is working 🙂 but she does know her indy/green stuff!
Ronnie Anderson-why thank you kind sir 🙂
Before I forget, May 1st at the Counting House-I will be there so I hope someone (BDTT) will have a badge for me.
The cathartic moment in the referendum campaign was when George Osborne made his infamous day trip to Scotland to inform us that we would not be allowed to use the £pound and also implied that Westminster would wreak havoc on Scotland’s economy if we voted YES.
Most Scots were shocked to be suddenly made aware by a transient politician that they had been deluding themselves for 300 years by thinking that they were fully paid up members of the UK club.
They then fought the dirtiest political campaign ever to keep us in the UK without ever telling us why.
Now to add insult to injury Westminster and its media poodles have decided to go the whole way and openly treat us as ”
And they wonder why the opinion polls are showing that the Westminster political parties are heading for annihilation at the GE IN May?
Sheer Jockophobia – a word, incidentally, which is itself an example of Jockophobia.
Ok then…. what I don’t get about all of this is… If The Sun think this sort of stuff is acceptable, then why not print it in the Scottish edition too. C’mon do ur worst!!!
bet the 55% feel stupid now…
@Lollysmum
I agree with your analysis of the cartoon – that’s what I saw in it too but didn’t have time for a long post earlier. My take on it was also influenced by the knowledge that the cartoonist is Scottish and has produced some suspiciously pro-indy stuff in the past.
Mind you I am not sure how you get to the be the cartoonist in the English edition of the Sun and be pro-indy…
Cheers for the inside info about the FM’s speech at LSE today. V interesting.
Lollysmum – thanks for that insight from today, appreciated
Caught the Q&A, but missed a bit due to having to take calls
Saw that the msm were off to the left in the cheap seats 🙂
@ Lollysmum
Neatly reasoned though I suspect you are right that most including myself saw only the first impression. Still bristling in fact, at the use of the word immigrant and the see you Jimmy hat, regardless of further, cooler examination. Its also probably going to be the impression that most will carry away from initial viewing.
Just wondering if, at this point, is the artist playing to two audiences?
Hi Lollysmum.
(Slightly O/T)
Ian’s not keeping a register of who’s going on the 1st – but I will note your name! If we’re gonna do badges, your name will be on one of them…
I’m pleased that a couple of posters here have noticed that Brighty, the artist, has actually responded on this article – and perhaps take into consideration of his reply that his cartoon has been taken out of context.
A revision of the original article would be nice, but I doubt it’ll happen.
Could Dennis Skinner and Mark Steel not register as SNP and run for election south of the border.
Caw Canny.
But we have to remember that Rev Stu also indicated Wings could (will?) be involved in the May GE.
“We’ve still got cash left over in the Wings kitty and it’s only £500 for an election deposit. We think it’s about time that we put up our own candidate, either at the next available by-election or at the 2015 general election. We’re not even joking. We’re going to do it. Because it looks like ANYONE can beat the Lib Dems now.”
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-time-is-right/
@ Lollysmum – I am so looking forward to meeting you – but I expect there will be a long queue xx
Is this not a good thing?
The English media do not differentiate between yes and no voters and they will treat all Scots, regardless of how they voted in the referendum, with increasing levels of contempt as the election approaches.
Every slur, every racist comment, every xenophobic cartoon, brings independence that little bit closer.
Happy days if you ask me.
Campbell: ““Driven” != “voting”. I’m a fan of using the words I actually mean”
This^
It is unarguable that UKIP policies and memes have shaped the political dynamic in England, and the main parties have been reactive and accommodative of them.
Dave: “On what basis do you make that claim – a cartoon in the f-ing Sun but not stats or substantial evidence to back it up.
DAVE
If you have to ask what the substantive evidence might be, then you haven’t been paying attention. This blog has documented with citation to original source materials case after case of hate speech – of speech whose apparent purpose (and certainly its effect) is to ridicule, monster, and “other” the UK’s largest ethnic minority.
As for stats backing that, we may have to wait (for the severity and frequency of anti-Scot racist attacks are on an ever-upward trajectory) for John Robertson or some other qualified academic to produce a peer-reviewed study.
In the meantime you are free to look at each claim of racist or ethnic bigotry and incitement, appearing above and below the line, here and in other publications.
Check the citations offered to verify the claims. THEN you can argue your case on the basis of the empirical evidence.
What we have from you right now is naught but carnival barking.
Everytime they slur us another little bit of the decrepit union dies. Its pretty much over…and will be for good soon.
@Tackety Beets says: 16 March, 2015 at 8:23 am:
“Am gettin’ fair scunnerrt wi it aa .”
Aye! Tackety Beets, me anaw. It’s enuch tae mak yer bile blid.
;-))
@Croompenstein says: 16 March, 2015 at 10:13 am:
“It’s kind of how they have always viewed us and anyone else who isn’t ‘them’”
Yes, Croompenstein, it most certainly is how they see us. I learned that lesson the hard way as a child living in Hants in around 1942/43. Now remember that Scots were fighting for the United Kingdom against the NAZIs and we were supposed to be allies.
I attended primary school in the local town and got beaten up every day by a gang of much older boys for no better reason than my broad Scottish accent. I’ve never, even at that tender age, been one to be bullied, verbally or physically. In spite of the great odds, (I’m just 5’4″),so I fought back. I may never have won, (I was hardly old enough to be at school and these guys were 11 or 12 y.o).
Thing was that the teaching staff, to a man/woman, would break up the fight and, despite there being five or six bigger boys beating me up, blamed me. I was then caned for fighting and being, “A typical aggressive Jock”.
Now I’ve never blamed all England for the sins of those few but I did realise we were not ever quite accepted as equals south of the Border.
@ balaargh at 1.11 pm yesterday:
No, you’re not the only one who’s noticed, but since lots of people don’t know about the finer points of Jewish dietary laws, the cartoonist may just have been having a dig at Miliband’s recent admission that he has two kitchens for quite other reasons.
Sorry balaaargh; I left out one of your many a’s. I did write it down (to make sure I referred to the correct time) but then mistyped it.
Perhaps the nationalists only have themselves to blame? How do you expect the rest of the U.K to feel about the Scots after the anti-U.K rhetoric that has been spouted with such vitriol over the last few years? You are constantly telling people it is not your flag, not your values, not your culture, not your government, not your identity, and you never wanted to be part of the Union. You are the ones acting like the outsiders.
Scotland has always been welcome to be part of the U.K, but the behaviour over the last few years has not gone well down on the other side of the border, loyalty is a two way street I’m afraid and after the last two years I’m afriad the lions share of the animosity has origionated on the Scottish side of the border.
The SNP have had decades to play U.K politics but they have done nothing but play “us and them” politics and foster grievences instead. It will be hard for anyone South of the border to believe the SNP have any interst in playing U.K politics after the way it and it’s supporters have talked about and behaved towards the U.K and its people.
The referendum sent a bad message South of the border about how Scots feel about Britain, it would never had mattered in the event of independence, but it never happened and now the SNP find themselves in the unfortunate position of trying to sell an SNP supported government to a Union they tried to destroy.
David Cameron wanted Scotland to be in the Union but Scotland is a unique country and just because nationalist are automatically obliged to let Alex Salmond think for them does not mean those who vote Tory let David Cameron do the same. If you want to leave the Union then fine, you are entitled to your opinion but I find I unbelievable you expect some type of loyalty from people who you have none to yourself.
Your are right the U.K is a one way relationship, but it seems to me more a case of Britain expected to have loyalty to Scotland and then get nothing in return.
I like this blog, and there are often good, thoughtful comments to read here. But I’m very sad to see you succumbing to this SNP tendency to scour every media outlet looking for things to be insulted by. It’s extremely boring.
@Tom Wilde, It’s not scouring every type of media, ‘looking for things to be insulted by’. It’s scouring every type of media looking to see ‘who’ is reporting ‘what’. It’s from this work that we can gauge moods and trends and from that, we make strategies and plans. It’s from this work that we can make decisions and our own assumptions. It’s called having an interest in what’s going on around you. Why would anyone look to be insulted?
Hi James Clayton.
You typed,
“How do you expect the rest of the U.K to feel about the Scots after the anti-U.K rhetoric that has been spouted with such vitriol over the last few years?”
Bearing in mind that the Oxford English Dictionary’s definition of “vitriol” is,
Bitter criticism or malice,
could you, perchance quote us an example of this vitriol?
BTW, as a clue: Scots suggesting that Scotland has its own flag, has different “values” to the rest of the UK, its inhabitants claim “Scottish” identity and we tend NOT to get a UK government which reflects the vote in Scotland, do not amount to “vitriol” in the accepted meaning of the word.
So please, expand.
You also typed,
“Scotland has always been welcome to be part of the U.K”
Well, according to Cameron, we were certainly welcome to remain part of the family of nations in the week before last year’s referendum. In fact, we were “better together”.
Not now, it seems. How dare those rebellious Scots vote for a party that isn’t Unionist! Who do they think they are?
Coming down here and stealing our power. How very dare they! Amazing how attitudes of politicians can change in a few short months…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkAJWFxpuk0
Sorry, James. Scotland as a nation has woken up and this awakening defies unionist convention. No longer will Labour’s vote in Scotland be weighed; they have been guilty of taking Scotland’s voters for granted and that is coming home to roost.
The huge build-up in a multitude of ad-hoc, cross-party, grass roots organisations, campaigning for a YES vote (to the surprise of the SNP), let people see that the could make a difference.
That difference will be apparent on the morning of 8th May.
@Andy Hewitt Seriously? My mother-in-law takes the same kind of approach as you are describing, carefully examining everything said around her “looking to see ‘who’ is saying ‘what’. It’s from this work that she gauges moods and trends and from that, makes strategies and plans.” In all honesty, it doesn’t do her any favour. She’s a lovely woman but would be a whole lot more popular (and influential, if it comes to that) if she wasn’t so thin skinned.
I’m quite sure we never had much bother before those Romans,then the Angles,the Jutes and the Saxons were the immigrants,that cause all of the problems we have today.