Wings Over Scotland

So we now know collectively that the justice system along with the present government is corrupt. So do we continue voting for them for independence or simply dump the snp and move to the Scottish alliance? Either way this shit has badly tainted our politics our representatives and our reputation as a transparent justice for all country.

PS I’m still waiting for Cliff Richards to be nailed up.

Looks like corruption,
Smells like corruption,
Walks like corruption,

Nothing to see here then!

It had seriously crossed my mind about two weeks ago that this Fabiani inquiry would find a way to absolve Sturgeon of all responsibility & award her a “Get Out Of Jail Free” card.

The logical part of my brain suggested that this would be so brazen & so obvious that it would be viewed by anyone with a pulse, as a cover up, so willful, deliberate & egregious that she wouldn’t actually attempt it.

Looks like I was wrong. I underestimated the depth of corruption inside the Scottish Government.

Hamilton has form for absolving FM’s of responsility as. He found Carwin Jones didn’t mislead the Senedd over bullying claims. Jones got Hamilton from Sturgeon.
Hamilton is Sturgeon’s advisor. He who pays the piper……

On what justification was the decision taken to not publish Aberdein’s evidence and exclude it from the committee’s deliberations?
Questions and answers on this are needed given that his evidence would probably be the most central as to whether NS did indeed break the ministerial code (or not). Fucking farce!!!!
If I was AS I would not attend the committee hearing – it’s been a total charade from the start with no desire to get to the truth.

I suspect that the adverse effects from suppression of Aberdein’s evidence has been judged to be less damaging than allowing it into the public sphere.

AS did warn us that what he had evidence of goes all the way to the top, and we thought he was just meaning NS!!

What have these shower of c#*ts done to our country!!

The brazen nature of this stitch up is getting so that satire becomes redundant; they are not even trying to hide it, at least in the old days they would hobble an enquiry by fixing its “terms of reference”, so no loose threads got yanked too tightly. This is just …

link to youtube.com

O/T – REV
Gerry Hassan is a dribbler who produces a pre-chewed cringe-meat of the most predictable quality; he buzzes like a fly, fluffing the byres road sensibility and is almost too inconsequential (“national conversation”, “writers workshop”) to bother with – but his latest blog piece is a new low water mark for him; it’s like bourgeois leftist bingo – trump, boris johnson, salmond, YOU, all the wingers; pure buzzword compliance, yet hitting the needed word count.

– something about toxic masculinity blah blah; and all from a man who looks last pick at the footy, and who faints on a half of shandy.

– you might want to tear him a new one, in your usual style.

On what basis has the refusal to accept Mr Aberdein’s evidence been made? Surely they can’t just make an arbitrary decision like this without explanation or justification, and expect it to be meekly accepted?

Can’t Mr Aberdein just publish what he knows and be damned? I’ve been thinking the same thing about Mr Salmond. If telling the truth and stating the facts means breaking the law, isn’t breaking the law the right thing to do?

I lose track of who said what when to whom in this convoluted saga and I can hardly be alone in that. Remind me, did NS state to Parliament that Geoff Aberdein made an unannounced social visit to her office (“popped in for a cup of tea” I think were her words) and that this was the first time she heard of the allegations against Salmond?

If so, GA’s sworn statement directly contradicts that and proves she lied to Parliament. Now while strictly speaking that lies within the Hamilton Inquiry’s terms of reference I think GA’s evidence is still relevant to the Parliamentary Inquiry in establishing a timeline of who knew what and when they knew it.

Michael Laing @ 2.23

I’ve been thinking the same thing. AS could publish or broadcast on his show everything, the upshot would no doubt be his immediate arrest for telling the truth. In court state he does not recognise telling the truth as a crime and enter no plea. Let them try to prove otherwise.

I’m well aware the above is easy said and probably very naive but alternatively contact an overseas journalist with the whole story and and let it rip. Nicky Hagar (pronounced Hagar as in lager) comes to mind, an investigative journalist based in NZ whose book Dirty Politics led to him being dragged through the mill after attacks by blogger Cameron Slater in league with government ministers, crooked police and prime minister John key, the whole gamut. Tech confiscated shit spread and cover ups.

He won. Apologies all round and compensation paid.

Again easy said but something has to be done, must be done.

clem fandango says:
21 January, 2021 at 1:45 am
Corrupt and crooked to the core. I don’t know where we go now.

Agreed.

As for where we go now, know what? My tinfoil hat is now reaching back to a thing which has always niggled me, and that is Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson who was SNP leader at Westminster, losing their seats in the Tory ‘Dark Money” General Election. Bad smell about that, and it’s never gone away. I think it was rigged.

I don’t think the origins of this muck begin with Alex Salmond deciding to return to politics. I think the groundwork was being laid to have control over Alex Salmond while Alex Salmond was still centre stage.

Proof? I have none. But all the way back in 2013 /2014 was a recurring smear that Alex Salmond was disliked by women, but there was never so much as a grain of evidence to substantiate it. So many people saying they didn’t like Alex Salmond, but never once did any one of them provide any tangible reason or origin for their dislike. Are you gonna vote YES? Naw, I don’t like that Alex Salmond. Why not? I dunno, I just don’t…

I thought even then it was simply a smear being drip fed into the mainstream by the Unionist media, because it was exactly the thing they would do.

To put it briefly, because it really is a tin foil hat conspiracy theory that will fry your brain, I think we need to go much further back, and forensically re-examine Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson losing their seats, and the drip fed smearing of Alex Salmond as unpopular with women. I have never believed that was all legit and above board.

Is it too fanciful to imagine a Conspiracy firing itself up to stop Alex Salmond returning to politics, wasn’t actively playing it’s part getting Alex Salmond out of politics to begin with? Alex Salmond out, and their puppet Sturgeon in, and the mighty YES juggernaut parked up in neutral for the next six years… job done eh? Or do you think Sturgeon just woke up one day and decided to run Scottish Independence aground on the nearest sandbank?

Scotland’s colonial subjugation and lamentable capitulation of both Constitutional Sovereignty and Brexit democracy? How is it possible for anyone to have handled that more ineptly than Sturgeon? Anyone that was batting for Scotland that is…

And what if the “Establishment” which had Sturgeon in it’s pocket was actually fully cognisant of the dangers posed by Brexit? It wasn’t any fan of Boris Johnson and the Brexiteering lunatics, and so attempted to use its ‘asset’ Nicola Sturgeon to defuse the whole UK’s Brexit? Suddenly the SNP ‘strategy’ to change English minds about Brexit begins to make sense from absurdity.

Somewhere back then, pre 2014, is when and where the seed was planted, which has now grown to maturity and fruition as Sturgeons rotten SNP, and Scottish Independence dead in the water under her ‘leadership’.

It’s not just Sturgeon who I don’t trust, (and distrust with a passion), but the whole mechanism of Holyrood. Holyrood now feels like the Terminator movie, as Arnie starts taking damage. All the flesh and humanity is falling away, the appearance was just a facade, and what we are now seeing emerge is the red eye and shiny chrome of a ruthless cybernaut which has “Made in UK” stamped into every component, and an unstoppable determination to destroy Scottish Independence.

Where do we go from here? A National Constitutional Convention to defend Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution from the colonial encroachment of both Westminster AND its Vichy Holyrood, and it’s compromised SNP which is riddled with infiltrators.

Reset Scotland to factory settings. The People of Scotland are sovereign, and we start from there.

If the likes of Jackie Bailey & the other UNIONISTS on that committee do not walk away from it, then we know that the SNP are no threat to their precious Union. If the TRUTH is what Bailey & her ilk have really been seeking, then they would refuse to sit on a committee that is a FARCE as far as TRUTH & TRANSPARENCY goes. We have a Party where a Husband & Wife team run the show, & we get a committee into an inquest on the FM chaired by one of her own MSPs ..That is NOT democracy, that is the sort of jungle jury the likes of Mugabe would deploy. How anyone can vote for the SNP with the corruption that lies within it, just beats me. And I say that as a lifetime voter, as someone who trusted them with every fibre of my being. I gave my first vote to them 53 hrs ago & have been voting canvassing for them ever since..I honestly believed we were better than WM better than the WM corruption we have all witnessed for years. The “losing of child abuse files” The cover up of a fat liberal MP raping bairns.. But as FM she allowed those that have been trained well in corruption I.e. Evans, (we saw that with the North Ayrshire PFI scandal) into the heart of the SNP to do the dirty work for her.. I will never forgive her for what she did to destroy the ONLY person that tried hard to return Scotlands status in the world as an Independent country. And she did so through fear he would return to politics in HR & steal some of her thunder. We have a corrupt FM corrupt deputy FM. Corrupt CEO, corrupt COO, corrupt permanent secretary, & as many of the minions in the civil service. I ask again, where are these good people in the SNP we keep hearing about still being there? And why are none speaking out in disgust at what is being allowed to happen. Because everyone that stays quiet about what they have seen or heard or absolutely know, are as guilty & complicit as the heirachy in charge of that party.. I agree with a poster above who said that they thought Alex Salmond should NOT appear at this farce of a committee. As someone who couldn’t wait to hear what he had to say. I think he should leave them to their game of “whose the biggest LIAR” He has more dignity in his little finger than all of them put together. He should never sit among them again..

Quite interesting attempts from some at deflection ie tories unionists mi5 Westminster et al.

Wrong.

This is all yours nationalists; every single one of you who put these bastards in place. You own it.

Next up.

700,000 vaccinations and only a third used. How many more to die?? Guess who the country is looking at…

Corruption corrupts.
.
.
The truth will out. But will it be too late ?
.
To every MSP -go along with this and you will be tainted for ever. And reap a future whirlwind.

For the first time in a while I feel there is no hope. If powers are able to so publically cover this up and stop the truth being revealed then they are fearless with no respect for us at all. My God, it’s actually scary. What the hell is going on!
What Breeks says at 4:55 doesn’t sound like a tin foil theory at all.

Breeks at 0455am,

You make some intersting points re when this all really started. It does/would bear all the hallmarks of just how the ‘british’ state acts to destroy its opponents. A long play, yet growing in strength, until the point, where we now have a corrupt SNP leader and party, and a shiny (frankly massive) new ‘Enbglish colonial government building, just around the corner from Holyrood.

Sometimes I think it is not too fanciful for us to be mere weeks from England trying to completely take over Scotland from their new colonial HQ in Edinburgh.

Kangaroo at 100 am,

Yes it absolutely does. The treaty has been sidelined by the current English government in London. Do not expect our corrupt First Minister to do anything about it though – she’d need to get London’s permission first.

Breeks @ 4.55 – In these Post-Truth , Nothing-Is-As-It-Appears times one has to always consider the dark , the improbable , the borderline demented .

If I may temporarily borrow your metallic headwear ….

From a certain POV the Salmond Trial verdict was absolutely perfect , for the Brit Nat State .

Had he been found guilty he would have simply been consigned to history as a ” monster ” who got the punishment he deserved . Case closed , move on .

Look where we are now . A bitterly divided movement , torn between My Nicola Right or Wrongists v Get Her Tae Fuckists , possible criminal charges , at the very least inevitable electoral damage , a climate of suspicion , distrust and angry finger-pointing

It couldn’t have worked out better for our opponents

Surely the key to this is if Aberdein gives evidence then Liz Lloyd inevitably gets dragged in. We’re already aware that Swinney has effectively blocked her appearance.
Why would that be? Why protect her in particular.
All she has to do is lie like the rest of them.

Stu, this is obviously corrupt, and will stop the truth coming out by any conventional means.

So is the committee doomed?

Will Nicola Sturgeon now be safe?

What are the next steps?

Robert Hughes @ 7.23

I certainly don’t think that the independence battle has been lost. Far from it.But together we need to get all the right things into place in what is a moving chess board.

We are talking a national movement here, a national desire, and whilst it might seem daunting, the goal is often just round the corner. Devolution itself is under threat. The continued existence of the Scottish Parliament cannot be guaranteed.

Are the current members prepared to accept this.

So Robert, yes you may be disappointed, we all are at times, but do not loose heart. Our opponents have not won. Far from it.

And getting into the detail a state NHS cannot be guaranteed, A society where the police and the military are not restricted to break the law with immunity is not guaranteed. The removal of social, economic, consumer and environmental protections are guaranteed now that we are out of Europe.

Are the punters prepared to accept that. Well I don’t think they are.

But what we have just now is an SNP leadership that became compromised, became Indy lite, that let us get dragged out of the EU, has bone nothing to resist the rightwards shift of the Westminster Government. And it is a government that at its heart is criminal, a givernmentbthat would pervert the course of justice.

But the government is not the SNP, it is not the SNP members, and much as it would like it no5 to be so but it is only a Government by the choice of the people.

Sturgeon and her clique need to go. And if they don’t then they will be forced to go. The SNP can change too, become what it should be. Bu5 if it doesn’t we will destroy it and reform. Every MSP, every MP should not forget that, because that which we created, we can destroy and recreate again.

But let us not be negative. The SNP can reform, life can be breathed into a list party, the yes movement can get back together. We have as someone said once not gone away. Far from it and we may be much nearer than we think.

Need to start #No2ndvoteSnp. As a protest

What is utterly vile us not just that they are covering up corruption, but, they sell the lies that this is an open and transparent democracy!.

I could understand this happening in a unionist administration, not that that makes it right, but, this is an SNP government!

A few years ago I had a tour of the Scottish parliament building. All the doors are glass and see through as a symbol that the people see everything the politicians are doing and that all is transparent.

How ironic that this symbol is simply that.

There are also spit, gender neutral figures on the walls of the debating chamber to symbolise that the people are watching.

Perhaps this symbolism was designed to be to be misleading all along!

Corruption hiding in plain sight masquerading as democracy and justice.

Keep posting stu, it’s the only way the truth is getting out just now

Cheers Willie – My comment above was intended as an absolute affirmation of belief in the rightness and necessity of Independence and an attempt to encourage people not to give way to despondency .

The fight is very much NOT over , in fact ….it’s only just begun

So what’s in it for Fabiani? She’s stepping down in May so why go along with the conspiracy?

@Breeks that’s pretty hard-core tin-foil! Awesome stuff though and it does explain a lot. Would make a great plot for a book or film if you ever want to try your hand at something else.

Having said that it’s important not to give your adversaries power that does not exist. If this is all the work of MI5 then it’s more important to see where you’re being pushed rather than where you’ve been and how you got there. So rather than lament at how Holyrood now seems to be working against the country’s interests we should be thinking of taking an unexpected turn that invalidates everything that’s happened up to now.

Thanks to Nicola, there will be plenty of time for retroactive prosecutions once we’re free.

I’ve been trying to tell people here for weeks that Sturgeon is bulletproof and is going nowhere and here we are, at last some people are waking up to this fact.

YOU have been given a choice now.

Do YOU continue to vote SNP and become complicit in this corruption like all the MSPs? If YOU vote SNP, YOU are condoning this behaviour and become as much a part of it as they are.

What’s more important? Independence, which you’re never going to get with this lot in charge of administering Scotland or cleaning out this cesspit of corruption which means taking the pain of a Tory/coalition led Scottish parliament who BTW, are just as corrupt as the SNP.

Scotland needs a revolution, a rebellion but unfortunately, Scots don’t have in them to take direct action, so the future for Scotland is simply sucking up more of the same.

Absolutely shameful and I feel embarrassed to be Scottish. Luckily outside the UK, Scotland is seen as a small parochial part of the UK, if it’s even thought about at all, so I won’t take any flak but that doesn’t make me feel any better.

One question Stuart, who is it that decides what evidence can be seen? Is it Fabiani ot the LA?

Like many others I’m about scunnered with it all. The feeling of betrayal cuts deep.

I’ve spent thousands of hours, thousands of £, traveled thousands of miles and marched 100s of miles with my Saltire in a vain hope we might get to an independent country free from corrupt westminster rule.

We trusted the bus driver, sure he would eventually get us home safe, but when we return to the bus we find he’s pissed on the electrics, shat on the seats and slashed the tyres.

Hope of a better country is rapidly disappearing into the far distance. A horizon that I’m becoming certain I’ll never see now.

I’m hanging in until May, but if, as I believe, the election will be rigged or delayed to prevent any large independence supporting majority, we’re fucked. And Johnson and co will have all the legal levers they require to lock Scotland up just like Madrid has done with Catalonia. (And don’t bother with the “but we’re not Catalonia” nonsense, yes, I know that but they’re going to do it anyway. It’s a large part of what brexit has been about). Scotland’s only recourse will then be the UN which will not help us as it will be seen as causing problems for one of their permenant security council members. European Court will be out of the picture thanks to brexit. The Supreme Court of England? Give me a break.

Some will suggest that the new POTUS will support us. Anyone who thinks that doesn’t understand global politics. He might be of Irish descent and he may well help Ireland along, but you can forget any help for us coming from that direction. Why? UN Security Council and Trident.

Reality is we’re fucked every which way.

So, as I say, May.

Unless something changes radically by then I will be out. Completely out.

Is there not at least a prospect of the Secretary of State for Scotland intervening?

He’s in charge of the devolution settlement and it strikes me that at this point it falls to him to intervene and ensure proper governance and the application of legal principles are applied in Scotland.

All the individuals, the High Officers of State, and the institutions that we’re supposed to hold in high esteem and who we are told exist for our benefit…

The First Minister
The Deputy First Minister
The Lord Advocate
The Scottish Government
The Scottish Parliament
The Scottish Justiciary
The Civil Service
Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition
The Press

All these “pillars of our society”.

I’m at a loss to say anything other than a string of profanity, which achieves nothing.

Suffice to say, We-See-You.

Compare this with the Grenfell Inquiry which is led by a judge, not a parliamentarian, and you will see how a real inquiry works.

It now seems clear, Sturgeon will not: “Do the right thing” and resign. She will go down with her ship under the tsunami of shite which the Yoons and their media puppets will throw at them come the Holyrood Election.

Even if the majority of the electorate hold their noses and vote back in an SNP government, then Baw Jaws will probably invoke Plan B and find a way: “In these unique times and in the cause of national unity,” to shut-down Holyrood and put us back under English control.

I just wonder, what’s in it for the likes of Fabiani? Were she a Tory or a Labour politician, in the final months of her active political life, she could be controlled by the promise of a nice ermine cloak and a sinecure for life in that “Other Place.”

But, the SNP does not play that London game – so, what’s in it for her? Is she simply a big ferartie who has been bought lock, stock and barrel by the Murrells.

How typically Scottish the whole clusterfuck has become.

I think she’ll wait until it suits WM for her to leave and then do a more subtle Ruth Davidson

“ But, the SNP does not play that London game –”

Not so sure any more. Ask benny Higgins and Charlotte street partners.

There’s nothing much to lose by getting the whole sorry business published abroad very quickly

Is that why they put Fabiani as convener?

Because she is about to retire so she cannot lose her seat no matter how much shit she throws on the table and how much of a fool of herself, the committee and the public she makes?

This is disgusting and a brazen insult to the taxpayers who are paying for that mess and the salaries of all those people. Smoke and mirrors, a pretence of justice and democracy that ends up being another stitch up of justice and democracy. It seems very clear that Fabiani never had any intention to throw this liar standing as FM out, only to cover her corrupt arse.

What gets at me is how weak, gullible and how little integrity all those who are willing to go along with this, starting by Fabiani, the committee, those civil servants, the lord advocate and all the rest have. A parcel of rogues, the lot of them.

Now I finally understand all those who say Holyrood is nothing but a pretend parliament. It indeed is, this proves it. It is just another sewer full of unscrupulous useful idiots doing the dirty work for the English establishment, and oh boy the work is dirty.

Shame on you Fabiani. You are telling with your reprehensible actions you are just prepared to chair a farce so justice and democracy can be bypassed. And for the sake of whom?

May your name go down in the history books as the woman who transformed the integrity and ethics of Scotland’s government and Scotland’s ministerial code into wet toilet paper.

Don’t expect us to thank you for that.

I certainly don’t think that the independence battle has been lost. Far from it.But together we need to get all the right things into place in what is a moving chess board.

Neither do I, and I apologise I gave that impression.

The question before Scotland is how we best confound and frustrate the corruption, and defeat it in it’s objectives.

I fear however that Holyrood is surrounded by a passive conspiracy of its own… Scotland’s devolved “Parliament ” suffers from the same affliction as Scotland’s devolved “Government”… It is dressing up to be one thing, but when look up close, you see it’s wearing a costume instead of a uniform. It is all artificial. But most of all, if it bows to Westminster, then it isn’t our Government, it’s theirs.

Scotland MUST ask itself the question whether a Constitutionally Sovereign people can ever be properly represented by a “devolved” legislature masquerading as our bold and resolute “Government” whenever there’s an Election on the horizon, but shrivelling up to the meek status of a County Council in between times. Scotland won’t be Brexited against it’s will!… Oh, OK then.

There is whole raft of “sloppy” omissions in this “Government”. For example, people point out the conflict of Interest with the The Lord Advocate’s independence when he sits in Cabinet advising the “Government”. So where is the protocol which expressly forbids it? How is that prohibition enforced? How does that work in reality? Does it put Scotland’s famously independent Legal System at the beck and call of a devolved Committee? Questions, questions, questions…

There is a similar issue with the SNP being run by a married couple, but that’s the SNP’s business.

There is an absence of Impeachment protocol to hold a rogue Scottish Government to account. There are no prohibitions on statute, and no enforcement mechanisms to back them up if there were. We currently have a criminal conspiracy being prosecuted by Parliamentary Committee without the police being involved and witnesses being excluded. Lucky it wasn’t anything serious like a murder eh?

And there is no codification of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty anywhere, apart from tangential reference to the Claim of Right. This simply isn’t good enough, and surely invites our exploitation.

I think we must change tack as a movement, and reinforce the narrative that the United Kingdom is a loveless marriage with Scotland chained to an abusive partner. It was a contract between two people, which didn’t magically create one ‘person’ stripped of individuality forevermore, it remained, throughout, a contract between two equal partners. Scottish Independence is quite literally our divorce. It’s a process of disentanglement, not disembowelment.

Do not over complicate the simplicity of the single treaty which binds us, and do not succumb to the belief that Scotland would exit this unholy marriage robbed of all its wealth and dignity and somehow ‘incomplete’. Do not give in to despair that there is no way out. Speak to a UN lawyer and have him inform us of your constitutional rights which we ‘appear’ to have forgotten.

No one should vote SNP in May if you do you are condoning this behaviour. You are part of the coverup. Everyone that knows just how corrupt the SNP is is also corrupt if they vote for them.

We come up with words to write in the constituency ballot to spoil it ‘Can’t vote SNP because they are corrupt’
What you say is read out by the returning officer to candidates and agents at the count.
1000’s of spoilt first votes would have an impact
Then vote for a pro-indy party on the List.

There are two ballot papers so spoiling your first doesn’t effect your second.

The likely outcome would probably be a small pro-indy majority. As long as the pro-indy list vote was strong enough. But the SNP entirely reliant on the list party to be in power.

But of course it risks the unionists but honestly I don’t see that it makes any difference SNP majority or unionist

There is still the matter of the large amount of missing “ring-fenced” money, solicited from and donated by SNP members and non-members for specific purposes.

So, to borrow a favourite Inner Party expression, the more fronts they have to firefight on, the better.

If this money has disappeared,and/or if some of it has been used to compensate the Brexit Party for the Daddy Bear’s ill-judged utterances, the SNP (CEO and Leader) have presided over something that looks like it could be fraud. At the least, money solicited for an indy ref 2 campaign and a document to be delivered to every household, would have been diverted for Party reasons and therefore could be said to have been obtained under false pretences or used for inappropriate purposes.

We know how the least suspicion of wrongdoing or even wrong thinking sees non Inner Party favourites ostracised instantly, but there is still no suggestion of anyone being made to explain the fate of the money supposedly “woven through” the accounts. A CEO and Leader who fail to react to that with instant horror and resignations must be regarded as complicit, given their readiness to ditch other people for mere suspicion of lesser deviations from the straight and narrow.

I did not contribute to these appeals for cash, but could those that did, kick up more of a fuss, please, (before the latest Task Force is held up as justification for spending) and demand answers and resignations? I know the Rev is seeking answers from the new Treasurer. Quite possibly the old Treasurer will be made an example of, eventually, if anything murky comes to light, (and this topic, too, could likely be weaponised by unionists near to the election) but why no instant suspensions from the Party that demands purity of word, thought and deed (with certain obvious exceptions)?

The one person both willing and able to relate what transpired in that meeting will not be asked to do so. You couldn’t make it up.

Closed eyes and ears to the manifest truth.

Just like Sturgeon closed hers to the harms GRA will cause to women and girls.

We have an utterly corrupt politics in Scotland folks.

Lets face it folks. Its all a bit of a mess. It looks very much like justice will be denied to Alex ,to us, and to the Independence movement as a whole.

Where do we go from here?

Personally I have given up on the SNP and not just because of the corruption. I primarily believe their route to Independence is nothing more than a cul de sac .

At least I have taken action when I joined the ISP. I know what they prioritise at least.

My good lady and I were talking about this very subject last night. I suppose its time for soul searching.

The choices before us are difficult. Do we try to reclaim the SNP from the frightened leadership and representatives, or do we cast them adrift and move on to something else?

Either way takes time, and its time we really don’t have to spare.We all know that now.

I feel a deep sense of betrayal. Its crazy ,but its like my wife telling me she’s leaving me for somebody else without telling me why. Thats how it feels right now.

Political party’s come and go, as do we voters. Something that remains constant however is the desire to be free. Its as old as civilisation.I have instilled it in my sons, my daughters and grandchildren. Will the SNP hell me create a reality of that vision?

In words yes. In actions no. I move on to another route, having lost faith in those words.

We are not helpless. We stand together and we act together.

None of us here have,and will not break our promise to talk,walk and vote for freedom. Those who lead us have.

We rebuild what is damaged. We move on.

“No one should vote SNP in May if you do you are condoning this behaviour”

The correct instruction would be: “no one should vote in May, if you do you are condoning this behaviour”.

It is true that Sturgeon, Swinney and Fabiani are SNP, but the rest of the committee includes people from other political parties, the parliament itself that is allowing this farce to continue is integrated by several different parties and all those civil servants involved on this are UK civil servants responding to bosses down south.

I do not hear any of them standing up to Fabiani, Swinney and Sturgeon and demanding that evidence to be released. I do not see any from the committee standing up to Fabiani and demanding that either she resigns or she allows the evidence necessary for them to do their work to reach them, otherwise they will stand down.

There is an obvious collusion of interest here among all those actors. This is an assault on our democratic rights because they are deliberately stopping the information that would allow us to make an informed decision on who to vote for in the next election, reaching us. They expect us to vote blind, so all those corrupt parties and actors stand a chance. This is not democracy, this is colonialism in its most raw form.

The message we are receiving from Scotland’s parliament, Fabiani, the COPFS and Sturgeon’s government is that corruption will only be erased in Scotland with even more corruption and that our government, parliament, codes of conduct, ministerial codes etc, are not worth the paper they are written on. Welcome to the European Somalia.

This is not just the SNP’s doing. They would have never succeeded on this, they would have never managed to place somebody as evidently biased as Fabiani in control of the committee or would ever succeed in denying so much evidence to the committee and even to the judicial review and criminal case if they were not supported by the other parties and the establishment at large.

I think we have just discovered that Scotland’s democracy, government and parliament does not exist. What we have is ghost buildings standing on no foundations so the English establishment can demolish them any point of its liking whenever it feels its interests threatened, just like this time.

Be good if the Irish Times published the whole sordid, corrupt scandal.

So, just to recap a bit, in the lead up to the aSnp November conference, a flurry of polls (odd in and of itself, since there had been almost none in the year leading up) showed support for Indy at high 50% mark – but just shy of the 60% line in the SNP’s sand that would enable them to start the Indy process.

The not so fab, Fabiano enquiry was on a go slow, and no damaging details came out before conference.

And so, at conference, any chance a VONC in st Nicola, was drowned out by shouts of ‘look at the polls’.

Now, post brexit and deep brexshit, with the Jan SNP conference about on us, and calls for a plebiscite Indy election now fully within the yes community, we have the Fabiani enquiry getting rigged, and a recent poll showing a significant drop in support for Indy back to 50/50 levels….. when the most high profile thing in the news is all the bad publicity of brexshit, oh and more COVID lockdown, to add to the doom and gloom.

How very, very convenient, for st Nicola.

There is a great deal of professional experience btl, from all walks of life. I’m sure many of you will be aware of standard workplace complaints procedures.

When Linda Evans gave evidence last week, Hamilton-Cole asked very pertinent questions about the complaints process.

LE prevaricated, but did answer. when notified about the complaints of harassment in the workplace, AS was not provided with an exact copy of the nature of the complaints – he was given the Scot Gov’s interpretation of same!

And the complainer’s anonymity was being preserved, from AS!!! even at that stage of civil/employment proceedings!

I’m not at all sure how one could Harrass someone in the workplace anonymously, or make a complaint of being harassed in the workplace by a work colleague, and have your anonymity preserved in an official enquiry. You sure as hell couldn’t conduct a proper defence under these circumstances.

When workplace rules and regulations are unfair, the first group of people to suffer by them are women. The first group of people to avoid them, when they are unfair, are the people who need them most.

Nicola Sturgeon – a qualified Lawyer, signed off on these procedures, which are blatantly, blindingly, unfair and STUPID, in order to take down a fellow Indy supporter.

@Mia – For me, a perfect summation of events at Holyrood. The legal profession and civil-service are now an organ of Holyrood. The public are expendable trash.

I see Biden has basciacally allowed any man who so wishes access to engage in womans sports womans safe spaces womans changing rooms,

`Executive Order on Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation.`

as i said about a month ago `be careful what you wish for`,

thon vice president has the pronoun pish on her twitter bio.

Misogynists have won the day.

The party that gave us the Hate Crime Bill doesn’t hate, but actually condones, crime.

holymacmoses @ 9.09

Well spotted, and as they say, ‘follow the money’.

ONE looks like a massive talking shop of the usual great & good, i.e. KTs, OBEs and other assorted unionists.

I somehow don’t think Salmond can depend on Aberdein.

@ Black Joan at 9:46 am

The money was supposed to be “ring fenced” so it should be there Whether it is or isn’t , is not the question
What people who donated NEED to do is demand their money back.
From the SNP,
Send a letter and give them 14 days to return it ,
If they don’t sue, their arses off via the court.
You don’t need a solicitor, It’s simple
There are enough reasons to legitimately have the right to be entitled to a refund and costs
And as for members of the SNP, You want to tell Sturgeon she had NO right to give Smith money.
You can do it, The penaltycharges was people fighting back and PPI was the same ordinary people(they were taken over by businesses who saw the amount involved)

Too many people making bullets for others.

If Alex just reveals all, he incredibly lands in prison for telling the truth.
No shortage of examples of imprisonment for that same selfless act.

What happens if someone used that same old chestnut to Daily Hail uses daily?
One of our posters in a far off land such as Australia is posted copies of the real
transcripts and the names of the Alphabet Liars.

He says a trusted source close to-
Says- here is both barrels.

What could happen to that poster in Australia using a fake name?
Nothing I presume?

The fight needs dirty to fight the dirty.
Moral high ground is a good place to be until lies, injustice and corruption
are beating you to death!

Scot Finlayson

I noticed that on the news. Biden mumbled some vague nonsense about under-represented groups. Then in the commentary afterwards it was presented as combating racism. Whether this was lazy journalism, collusion or a last stab in Trump’s direction I could not tell.

Ah well, better them than us – for now.

Which implies that some pressure might have been put on GA Stu. ?

I still think that getting the SG legal advice re. Ecks civil case into public view, would be the tipping point.

O/t,

Our wheesht for Indy lot. I’m trying to understand their view point.

In 2014/14, I think one of the reasons we lost, was because Indy was going to be such a lot of work and upheaval.

I fully understand the fear about losing again, but it doesn’t even touch on the reluctance to campaign for Indy, and ensure the ground is covered now, rather than at the last minute.

I also cannot understand their absolute blanking of the fact, that if Mays election is not plebiscite, regardless if SNP win lose or draw, Westminster will have a 5 year blank cheque to screw Scotland over as much as they like and dismantle Holyrood in front of our eyes.

Why are they blind to that dangerous reality? If it is fear of losing, then in what way is the above not An even bigger loss.

The evidence of the lacklustre campaign in 2017 GE, which saw the SNP high in the polls and low in the seats, should have warned them of the false comfort polls can provide. But like the terminally ill despearate for a miracle cure, they appear desperate to cling to their messiah, and deliberately blind to any evidence of her inadequacy/ deceipts.

If May becomes a plebiscite Indy election for at least one party, it will get the option into the public lexicon.

The next 5 years will then give the Westminster crew a choice – asset strip Scotland at full throttle, or do it in a slow way, with a sad face, and some better PR. They are not built for the latter.

May’s election could also become the chance to rout the SNP, and sadly, they really need it. And build a new party from the ashes.

the next GE becomes the Indy Plebiscite election which will win.

Failure to use Mays election as a plebiscite, and to ask for a S30 after the election will result in exactly the same answer and situation as we have now. A mumbled reply, of now is not the time, tied in with an SNP leadership reluctant to actually carry out the request in a confident and clear manner.

What is worrying is that WM appears to be the driving force in trying to ‘Postpone’ Mays election. It would be better for WM for Mays election to happen, since there is a distinct lack of time to campaign for a Plebiscite Indy vote, and consolidate the new party. So why are they doing so?

What is it that they have got planned for us in the upcoming year that works to their favour. Remember, immediately after the election of the 56 SNP MPs they announc3d the Edinburgh Civil Service hub, and got it built in under 2 years. Ignore Boris, the power behind the thrown is extremely well organised and has a plan. All this posh about them bricking it, is false, and giving false comfort. We undeeestimate our enemy To our peril.

It seems Alex S was mistaken to place his faith in the committee.
This is what happens when you are an honest person, you assume the best in others.

I think the release of that article to the Belfast newspaper shows that he now realises justice will not be served by the inquiry.

So what now? I don’t believe he will go for a judicial review this close to the Holyrood elections.

I had a sleepless might thinking how the NS cabal has ruined the SNP.
People are stupid, you still get the head in the sand Oor Nicola types thinks she’s great.

We have the 3rd worse death rate in Europe, we’ve been lockdown for 11 months, our economy is trashed, and there is no sign that this is preventing any transmission or deaths, yet her approval ratings on Covid are high.
You couldn’t make it up.

The thought of Angus R as next FM and that b*tch of a wife of his in on a list seat, is enough to drive anyone round the bend.

As for Biden, again people are stupid, he was upfront about putting trans rights at the forefront, he said as much.

Jim f
You’ll first need a consultation group, to set the remit of the inquiry into the inquiry.

🙂

If the committee wishes to retain any integrity at all they must reverse this appalling decision. If the committee is split, those that don’t agree with the decision, should resign forthwith.

“Your Constituency vote could of course go to the ISP,”

Sorry – that should’ve been “List vote”

Carry on…

It does appear to me that Alex has the press firmly on his side. Like Watergate, they need to work and work in order to get the requisite amount of information to hand.

That is underway and (I’ve mentioned this a number of times) Sophie Ridge’s interview with Sturgeon on Tuesday was shocking in that Sophie Ridge made it clear that she just didn’t believe Sturgeon.

This is just not going to amount to nothing. Sometime soon a tipping point will be reached and Sky or the Daily Telegraph for example will publish.

I think we are talking about weeks now….my guess is sometime in February.

I notice John Swinney using the word ‘vainglorious’ in his Twitter page. It’s an excellent word and it surprised me that Swinney knew what it meant. He was using it to describe Trump but it could very well be used by many Scots to describe Swinney himself.

‘Because Geoff Aberdein doesn’t want any of this to be happening. He doesn’t want his name to be in the papers. He wishes it would all just go away.’

Indeed, and can anyone blame him. Salmond is a private citizen undoubtedly, but he is even more so since he was never a politician and has had a ‘proper’ job for a few years and just trying to get on with his life. He did the right thing and his behaviour in all this has been exemplary, so why would he break the law.

And even the inquiry members are not really at fault since the law of protection of these women is being used against them. It’s that law, which these women are hiding behind while taking potshots at Salmond and anyone who tries to speak out in his support, or even who queries the facts behind it all, which needs to be looked at and challenged. No point tinkering around the edges since there seems no way to do so unless someone leaks more info, or is willing to break the law publicly.

The law as to their anonymity needs challenged robustly on the grounds it is covering indications of a conspiracy, on the grounds some of these women have had more than one role in this whole thing, and on the grounds that they’ve been abusing that covering of anonymity by using it to their advantage probably from the beginning and certainly since the trial. If they want so much publicity they keep briefing the press or being shown to be willing to help press charges against others then the normal anonymity rules should not apply. Victim anonymity rules needs challenged in this case.

So with Aberdein’s evidence now unlikely to see the light of day, what happens next?

Is Nicola Sturgeon now 100% safe as FM? Will she continue to the election and well beyond?

Stu, are you now far less confident that Sturgeon will need to resign, or does this latest development not change your assessment of the situation?

So we’re caught between a rock and a hard place. Don’t vote SNP, let some unionist coalition in and see the prospects of independence disappear over the horizon; vote SNP, condone this ridiculous state of affairs and see independence vanish just as fast.

This is all totally depressing. I honestly thought we’d be better than this.

Alan MacIntosh – Angus Robertson is soft on Independence too. Very very soft!

Wings
Is England classed as a foreign country when it comes to legal anonymity?

@ holymacmoses: No. Sadly.

Sarah says:
21 January, 2021 at 11:27 am
@ holymacmoses: No. Sadly

But Ireland is:-)

The best thing our citizens could do is not to VOTE for Sturgeon and try and stop her becoming FM again. 1 it would stop her delaying our right to be Independent for another 5yrs and 2 we’d be getting rid of a dictator once and for all, it is achievable if it was done right.

Lots of (rightful) indignation on here, but surely what’s happening isn’t a surprise?
It’s the way the system works – ‘It’s the system, stupid’.
I recall a report, maybe 20 years ago, of an African leader telling Alex Salmond that Scotland was not ready for independence because ‘you are not oppressed enough’.
Maybe this current lurch towards oppression is just another step on the path…maybe.
But we are really up against something immensely powerful. For instance, divide and rule is now a fine art, a clever method of alienating disparate groups that would otherwise be natural allies against the perpetrators of oppression.

Then there is the freefall in the standard of education in Scotland that has been ongoing for 15 years, while at the same time dumbing-down the population with reality and other garbage on telly (Springsteen – 57 channels and nothin’ on – 40 years ago!) while overseeing a population getting high on drugs. And if the population are indoctrinated into believing that they have too much to lose by change, it is going to be difficult.

This didn’t just happen, it’s part of a strategy. And the FM or PM didn’t orchestrate this: although they may be culpable, they are low-middle managers obeying instruction, maybe on a par with vassals of 800 years ago.
I sometimes console myself with doodling a rant. A passage from a previous post: –
…But don’t dream of change
It’s not in the plan
The blueprint’s been developing
Since before globalisation began
They’ve infiltrated all levels
With clandestine devils
Now there’s a plethora
Of hegemonies fixed in place
A masterpiece of planning
That you cannot retrace
And as they take away
Your freedom of speech
Don’t break the rules
Or they will impeach
You cannot criticise
Or say what you think…

We trust those we elect to be the guardians of the country and protectors of the people. They have shown to be untrustworthy, what is my vote worth? They make armistice day a mere circus. Shame on them.

I feel a kinda mix of optimism and dread about Martin Keatings now…

I hope it succeeds, but if all the obfuscation, obstruction and corruption prevails there too, I hope the wheesht for Indy folks finally wake up to the truth. Better late than never eh?

Kinda surprised they haven’t tried to stitch up Martin Keatings yet. They must confident of cheating their way to ‘victory’ some other way.

Mia

I’m sat next to you feeling exactly the same things.

But part of me recons there are those who would prefer if we didn’t bother our backsides and stayed at home, or went to the effort of posting our ballot. That they prefer apathy to dissent.

So for that reason, I implore you to vote in May.

And by “vote” I mean scrawl “Lying Bastards!” or whatever on your Constituency ballot, and vote ISP on the List to keep the Indy flame burning and stop the Yoons claiming “no appetite for Indy”.

This is a shitty time for all the reasons we’re familiar with – clowns to the left, jokers to the right etc. don’t help matters.

But come May, Spoil-1 and ISP-2 will be your chance to give the rogues a punch in the junk, so to speak, rather than staying at home and silently simmering.

Hi I wish to forward the press extract at the head of the story to my MP and MSP both of whom I’ve regarded as honourable people. (Maybe I was mistaken)
Can you help with a reference/source as I subscribe to your meticulous standards of accuracy in communication..

The answer is to get as many ISP people on board and standing – that way we begin to have a lever.

Breeks says 4:55 am “General Election. Bad smell about that, and it’s never gone away. I think it was rigged.” I agree with you 100%

When I read the allegations in 2018, the word BEDCHAMBER jumped out at me, as it was not a 2018 word. “A woman told Scottish Government investigators how it took repeated requests to stop an alcohol-fuelled Alex Salmond’s advances in his official BEDCHAMBER”. “The Record has seen the wording of a detailed complaint”. Where did the word originate, the detailed complaint or the DR? It was obvious to me it was being used for sensationalism.

Around the same time, I attended a SNP MP’s surgery (I had met with him on several previous occasions). I was/am the victim of a covert witch hunt and I suspected it had originated from the “highest office”. This witch hunt has been camouflaged as a secret joke to make it more believable for people to participate. I told the MP in August 2018 (with a caseworker present) these allegations had the same connotations as my witch hunt and I suspected the same perpetrators were responsible. I have been subjected to the usual ad hominem attacks and the smears unbelievable. What I have in my favour is I hold written evidence of the smears, that can easily be discredited once under scrutiny. Did the MP help me, NO-despite seeing the evidence. The story becomes worse as a SNP MSP is also aware of my story and failed to help me. For the position they hold and the evidence I have provided to them. the nation would be shocked – but they have been influenced as I am blocked, no matter where I go – that includes Police Scotland.

Alex Salmond lost his seat in May 2017 and in Nov 2017 it was announced he had a contract with RT, to host a show. I believe this was somehow masterminded by the same perpetrators in an effort to weaken his support/position. I know nothing of the details of the contract, but I highly suspect he was offered something very lucrative “unable to refuse”. I do not believe RT are responsible for this, it goes much higher up the chain.

Then came the allegations of sexual impropriety in Aug 2018. In Dec 2018 we saw the collapse of US Kaiam Corporation Livingstone – 350 staff sent home with no pay just before Christmas. This was a contract Alex Salmon signed in New York April 6, 2014, during Scotland Week and supported by a grant of £850,000 from the Scottish Enterprise – more discrediting.

“ But all the way back in 2013 /2014 was a recurring smear that Alex Salmond was disliked by women” = subliminal messaging. Who would use such techniques?

Back to my story, this recent witch hunt has been running since 2011. However, when I started to piece everything together it goes back much further. Almost 30 years ago I suffered an “abuse of Human Rights” when I was living just outside London. My case ended up in Strasbourg at the European Court of Human Rights but I did not win. Within certain circles, my case became very well known for the injustice I suffered. Through an organisation that was supporting me, I was asked to make a documentary for Channel 4’s flagship documentary series “Cutting Edge”. It took months and lots of emotional pain but I was determined my story (the truth) should be known. Shortly before broadcast, a gagging order was taken out against Channel 4 to stop the documentary going out for “legal reasons”. It claimed ‘Sub-Judice’ which was untrue, as I had exhausted the legal process. I was being silenced as “they” did not want the truth to be known and the lies that had been told about me.

My story is like a jigsaw, but I have one piece missing. I was adopted at 10 weeks old, I knew this from the age of 6 and what information my adopted parents had been given was shared with me and the rest of the family. However, in 2018 on discovering the lies that were being told about me, I was able to relate this back to the same type of lies in my Human Rights case. Because of the nature of the case, I thought this must be about WHO I AM. I then applied to open the sealed documents that had been placed in the Court at the time of my adoption many years ago. To cut a long story short, the information in the documents is contrary to the information my adopted parents had been given (they’re now deceased). Birthlink put a trace on me, – the name of my biological mother on my original BC does not exist. I don’t exist, no adoption agency in Scotland has any trace of me including the agency it was claimed handled my adoption. SO, WHO AM I?

I believe this is all the work of “Secret societies and rogue Intelligence”. As for the SNP MP and MSP, you should hang your heads in shame, as what you are covering up is criminal. I have protected your anonymity here, but that is not permanent.

Breeks:

“… Proof? I have none. But all the way back in 2013 /2014 was a recurring smear that Alex Salmond was disliked by women, but there was never so much as a grain of evidence to substantiate it… ”

Before the 2014 referendum and after Mr Salmond left the FM ship, people I spoke to, all men, said that they did “not like that Alex Salmond”. All were Unionists and/or English Nationalist types. Invariably. I really do not believe that this whole mess was prompted by women disliking Mr Salmond. Personally, in my own dealings with him, I found him kind and helpful, and I was a supporter of his style of leadership.

I think there are three distinct strands to this: 1. the desire within the SNPG to not have Mr Salmond lift his head in SNP politics again; 2. the Westminster/Whitehall input (making use of existing tensions, and by having people in place who were working for the British State); and, 3. the pseudo ‘woke’ element. A study of the Stonewall Diversity Champions network, which supplies advice and tools to government, public bodies, businesses, organizations, such as law firms, etc. is like a spider’s web and goes way, way beyond the trans issue, which, in effect, in merely a smokescreen and handy peg on which to hang its cap. The people behind it, who fund it (apart from government, that is) are rich businessmen in Big Tech, Big Pharma and Big Medicine. It is a self-perpetuating spider’s web of infiltration into every level and area of society, and even Stone itself is only the vanguard. It would be in the interests of this leftist group, dangling on the puppet strings of predatory capitalism, to sabotage independence. Even Westminster is not safe from its tentacles, and Brexit fits the bill, too.

I don’t deny that the SNPG has brought the house down on itself, but, around it, are ideological warriors, ostensibly of the left, but being manipulated by the right. The Twitter mob that attacked Robin McAlpine were not misandrists, but part of the coterie around Nicola Sturgeon who have been infected by this ideology, who just happen to be female. Independence is not a priority for them at all; it is not even desirable. What has happened to the SNP is far, far worse than anything that BLiS has endured. If we continue to make this a woman-versus-man thing, we will be blinded to the reality of what is happening to the party at Holyrood. The administration is beyond saving, but so many of the FM’s faithful just cannot see it, so it will limp on, serving all three factions above, but not the Scottish people. Not independence.

Mr Aberdein’s evidence is being withheld precisely because it is damning.

Sylvia

Given what I’ve heard elsewhere, I find your story entirely credible. You have my sympathies.

robertknight at 12:29 Thank you – every word I have written is the truth. I have much more to tell – I am hoping Gordon Dangerfield and others read this…Thanks again

@Daisy Walker, 10.06

Good summary take. The question which I had from the beginning was how could a professional lawyer approve a new workplace procedure which could be applied to someone who was no longer working in the workplace or employed in the workforce?

@ Captain Yossarian

‘…the Scottish press are garbage and arguably have lifted the SNP coin, just like the legal profession has.
Not so the UK press.’

You’ve obviously misunderstood me, though I’m not sure how or why you’ve done that since what I said was pretty clear. Perhaps it wasn’t deliberate? It’s obvious you don’t agree even partially with what I said. Your belief that we need the UK press to come riding in on a white charger to clean up our regional corruption like heroes Woody and Bernie Is a rather unionist outlook isn’t it? Your designation captain wouldn’t be actual would it?

For clarity – I do not believe the Scottish press are in the pocket of the SNP or the UK press are heroes here. The only difference, if there is one, might be UK press haven’t got the message to wait til closer to the Holyrood election to do more damage, they probably prefer to be seen to print a scoop. The Scottish papers, being more canny about politics here and probably much more invested in local political outcomes, wanted to hold fire. All the press are mostly garbage, but none are supportive of independence, the National is not really much use I feel.

And I strongly dispute the legal profession as a whole is corrupt in any way. Some recent court judgments prove they are still pretty independent, and fair in dispensing justice, thankfully.

I would argue the same goes for the civil service up here and the police and even politicians – there are undoubtedly some bad apples who have abused their positions and since they’re in higher positions, have created that assumption but the majority of the legal and civil service is no more corrupt than we thought it before.

You should know from reading that book that appearance can be all and creating that appearance can be useful. Why you’re not more sceptical of all sides seems odd in someone who likes that book. Milo was a little runt.

@Breeks, 9.37

Scotland won’t be Brexited against it’s will!… Oh, OK then.

That’s a neat description of the Sturgeon administration’s modus operandi.

link to gofund.me

Sylvia,

I feel for you. It’s not until one gets chewed up by the professions we trust, in our time of need, and they make an absolute mockery of evidence, fairness, and critical,logical thinking, that we start to have a differing view of society, and the checks and balances a decent society installs to prevent it.

Sometimes all we can cling on to is our own values of decency, and refuse to relinquish same, no matter what.

I used to say on this forum, that we would get Indy for Scotland with one bit of decency at a time, sadly, the btl commentators over on wgd, with their movable goalposts on what constitutes evidence, and decency, have somewhat rattled that assumption.

Best wishes.

link to sptnkne.ws
the podcast from Tommy Sheridan with Gordon Dangerfield gives a useful perspective on the inquiry.

Don’t think the outcome of the Martin Keatings hearing will make the slightest difference to the scottish gov. they will just ignore it. Same as they did to the 2 or 3 fine examples of a constitution that was given to them for consideration. Of course they would not want that if it put a stop to their wrong doing and manipulations and corruption. Just a thought but would it not be better for an independent Scotland to be run by a 7 or 9 people executive to make all policy decisions and there would be no abstentions so decisions would always get done. PLUS less chance of them being infiltrated/corrupted and all votes by the public going to party not person or personality.