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Scotland’s alternative

Posted on June 29, 2018 by

Political pundits on both sides on the border often marvel at how the SNP appear able to defy the normal rules of electoral gravity, still holding a comfortable double-digit lead in the polls after more than 11 years in power. But there’s no great mystery to it, and the answer is simple, in several senses of that word.

Ladies and gentlemen, allow us to present to you Scottish Labour’s offering for who’d be in charge of all the Scottish Government’s money if the SNP weren’t in power – finance spokesman James Kelly MSP.

Let’s check those numbers, shall we?

1. IS THE NEW CABINET £285K MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE LAST ONE?

No.

£2,067,433 subtracted from £2,342,880 is around £275K, not £285K. (If you want to be absolutely precise it’s £275,447. Mr Kelly’s sums are almost £10,000 out.)

2. ARE THOSE AT LEAST THE RIGHT SALARIES, THOUGH?

No.

Again, Kelly’s figures here are wide of the mark by around £10,000. In 2018 a Cabinet Secretary’s official pay is a total of £108,854 including their MSP wage, not £96,999. And standard ministers get £91,407 rather than £81,449.

We have no idea where he’s plucked his numbers from*. We can guess, but we don’t think you’d like to see a picture of it.

3. DID HE MAYBE USE THE 2016 SALARIES FOR COMPARISON PURPOSES?

No.

The 2016 salary levels are nowhere close to the figures Kelly uses either. He’s still thousands and thousands of pounds out in every case.

4. BUT THOSE NUMBERS ARE EVEN HIGHER. ISN’T THAT WORSE?

No.

Because of course that’s not the EXTRA cost of having more ministers. If those people weren’t ministers they’d still be MSPs and getting paid the basic MSP wage (the one also paid to opposition members like Kelly who have no government responsibilities whatsoever, and who’ve been explicitly rejected by the electorate but foisted on the parliament – and taxpayers – anyway).

So the true extra costs of the new enlarged Cabinet are the figures on the left of the table above, not the figures on the right.

5. SO HOW MUCH EXTRA IS THE NEW CABINET?

There’s one more minister and two additional Cabinet Secretaries compared to 2016. The premiums over a normal MSP salary for those offices  are £29,258 and £46,705 (x2) respectively. That adds up to £122,668 – well under half the figure claimed by James Kelly.

That’d pay for just under four and a half first-year teachers, out of a current Scottish total of almost 51,000. We’d ask James Kelly to work out what percentage increase that was but we suspect the answer would come back as “some bananas” so we did it ourselves – it’s 0.0088%.

That kind of number is hard to get a grasp on in the real world, so for perspective, the average household bucket holds 10 litres of water – that’s genuinely a 10-litre one in the pic below. A 0.0088% increase would be the equivalent of adding one-fifth of a standard 6ml teaspoon of water to that bucket and expecting it to make a noticeable amount of difference to anything.

In terms of councils it’s even more ludicrous – the total councils budget is around £10.4bn, so the money spent on a slightly larger Cabinet would be enough to increase it by 0.0012%, or just under three of those 10-litre buckets of water in a 164-foot-long, 82-foot-wide, seven-foot-deep Olympic-sized swimming pool.

On a typical football pitch of around 7000 sq metres, it’d be 800 square centimetres, which is slightly more than a single sheet of standard A4 notepaper, or the footprint of a couple of adult football boots.

And it’s roughly the same as adding a quarter-pound bag of Midget Gems (113 grams) to the 12.65-tonne weight of a new London Routemaster bus.

So let’s have a recap. Kelly – the man who Labour wants to put in charge of the entire Scottish Government budget, remember – started off with wildly wrong figures taken from goodness knows where, calculated them under a fundamentally wrong premise, and then couldn’t even do a simple subtraction sum on his own numbers, resulting in a final figure that was wrong by an astounding 132%. [Edit: 220%. See below]

(And would have been basically meaningless even if he’d been right.)

And that, readers, is why the SNP are still 14 points ahead in the polls after more than a decade in charge against a backdrop of impossible Westminster-imposed budget cuts and near-uniform media hostility.

Because even if Scots don’t yet want independence, they sure as heck don’t want completely clueless, hapless buffoons like James Kelly running their country either.

.

*[EDIT 11.30am: It appears Kelly is using these figures. While the official salaries for Scottish Government ministers are higher, since the SNP came to power they haven’t been claiming their full entitlements and have kept ministerial pay at 2008-09 levels.

What this means, of course, is that the extra cost of the enlarged Cabinet is much LOWER even than we’ve suggested in this post. At a basic MSP salary of £62,149 the additional expense of one new minister and two new Cabinet Secretaries is £19,300 plus 2x £34,850, which comes to exactly £89,000, not £122,668. That gets you three teachers, not four and a half, and only two and a quarter buckets of water.]

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    1. 29 06 18 12:56

      Scotland’s alternative | speymouth

    181 to “Scotland’s alternative”

    1. bobajock says:

      Im sure you measured that swimming pool in feet – not meters just to wind Mr Kelly up – its abacus time again.

    2. MajorBloodnok says:

      What’s even more depressing is that he hasn’t even worked out that spreadsheets these days can do those tricky minusing and plussing sums all by themselves, if you ask nicely.

    3. Morgatron says:

      Hahaha, i honestly burst out laughing at your disctiption of that illiterate moron. Him And the rest of the red tory idiots.

    4. Welsh Sion says:

      Here’s a simple sum:

      James + Kelly + Labour = Fud.

    5. GrahamB says:

      Wasn’t Aileen Campbell already a junior minister so her additional ‘cost’ should only have been about £17k rather than the full £42k+ from MSP to Cabinet Secretary?
      More proof that when James Kelly’s biographic details refer to him working in accountancy they mean he was the tea boy and general gopher (though not to be trusted with money)!

    6. fillofficer says:

      KELLY,yer typical attention-seeking eejit
      & the MSM just cut’n’paste willynilly
      what a joke these opposition numpties are
      & to oust gillian martin for nowt, is just petty
      cant wait to get all the unionists out of Holyrood
      soon…

    7. Dan Huil says:

      Kellybellyup

    8. Thepnr says:

      First class dissection of Mr Kelly’s sums. Politicians like this are an absolute embarrassment to themselves, the people they represent and even people like me.

      It would have been so simple to have produced the correct figures yet Kelly can’t even manage that. Makes you think it must have been deliberate!

      Just imaging Kelly as Finance Minister, Sarwar in charge of health and Leonard as First Minister Hahahahaha.

    9. Muscleguy says:

      What gets me as a scientist about SLAB’s numbers is the utter lack of care and checking about them. As elected public figures putting figures in front of the public this utter lack of care is not just an insult to the electorate but come close to being fraudulent use of public funds.

      As a scientist funded ultimately out of the public purse I was constantly aware as were most of my colleagues that we had a responsibility to do the best, most honest science we could. If you make a mistake in a science paper you publish an addendum in the same publication owning to your mistake. Sometimes whole papers are withdrawn and repudiated and that doesn’t have to take fraud.

      Some years ago a Biotech company released an antibody they claimed was specific to just one of the four genes controlling muscle development. A scientist bought some and rushed out a study purporting to follow the levels of that protein in developing muscle over time. The problem is the Biotech company cheated and only put that protein down the lane purporting to show specific binding of the antibody. In reality that antibody bound all the other three genes to varying degrees so this guy’s paper was rubbish and he withdrew it and we all learned an important lesson.

    10. James Mills says:

      It makes you think – If James Kelly was selected as a suitable candidate for the Labour List , what was the calibre of those rejected ? Were they above the level of an amoeba ?

    11. George S Gordon says:

      Stu, as pointed out by @MeanwhileScotia, Kelly appears to be using the ministerial salaries frozen at 2008-09 levels.

      See https://beta.gov.scot/publications/foi-17-01904/

      Revision, revision …

    12. Arbroath1320 says:

      Just we are absolutely clear here and reading from the same page regarding Mr. Kelly’s future ministerial or even Secretarial (heaven forbid) skills here’s a wee snippet of him in full flow from 2013. (courteously put up on You tube by someone called Wings over Scotland 🙂 )

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMeyLKitmyk

    13. HandandShrimp says:

      Mr Kelly is a strange chap. Like a number of Labour politicians I am sure he genuinely does want to make the world a better place but he displays the levels of competence that indicate that if in power it would result in one embarrassing car crash after another.

      The road to hell is chock full of bad drivers…or whatever the expression is.

    14. Mike says:

      Still if it wasn’t for the media none of the Yoon parties would be polling above single digits in Scotland.

    15. Arbroath1320 says:

      Just a wee update.

      Apparently Mr. Kelly has a background in …

      wait for it …

      HOLD …

      HOLD …

      HOLD …

      computing and finance, is a chartered accountant, and worked as a business analyst in East Kilbride. (taken from Wikipedia 😉 )

      I find myself having to ask one very important question …

      How the hell did he EVER qualify as a Chartered Accountant?

      Are Chartered Accountants not required to be GOOD with figures? 😉

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kelly_(Scottish_politician)

    16. Gordon says:

      The answer would come back as “some bananas”??????

    17. Gordon says:

      The answer would come back as “some bananas”??????

    18. Gordon says:

      Don’t know where all the ? Came from. Ignore them

    19. Janet says:

      Ah, the Boris-Bus! Built by Wright of Norn Irn.

      Run by the Wright family. Bitter, Brexit-supporting old man Wright. Luckily for them that they don’t make cars for export, unlike a certain Japanese company with a factory in Sunderland and a partnership with Renault of France. Investments are on hold, according to Nissan.

      Ain’t it great in UK, not?

    20. George S Gordon says:

      That Wikipedia link also reminds us of the astounding fact that “When Kezia Dugdale resigned as Scottish Labour leader in December 2017, Kelly’s name was touted as a potential successor”.

    21. Marc Rich says:

      It’s surprising you didn’t add that he was a chartered accountant.

      Is no one proof reading what he or other deeply incompetent unionist politicians create before they pullblish it?

      I feel like wings could just be the sole topic of “and today some unionist daftie said xyz” and nothing else.

      Can’t wait for us to be making all our own decisions tho.

    22. Welsh Sion says:

      Pedants’ Corner 2:

      For Major Bloodnok @ 11:10 am and Arbroath 132) @ 11:35 am.

      http://www.parliament.scot/msps/currentmsps/98774.aspx

      Scotland: Know your enemies.

    23. Martin says:

      Yup, luckily Labour folk get plenty airtime which allows most voters to see what catastrophic idiots they all are. I’m not going to vote for an utter simpleton and I doubt many others are. THis allows the natural regression to the mean of the government we know and (usually) trust to be at worst OK

    24. Welsh Sion says:

      1320* (apologies)

    25. Thepnr says:

      Labours real problem is that Mr James Kelly is one of the best they have, he alongside Jackie Baillie (Labour’s Economy, Fair Work and Jobs spokesperson) guffaw, Anas Sarwar, Iain Gray and of course leader Richard Leonard.

      What a motley crew they make, a government in waiting? 🙂 🙂

    26. Fred says:

      Nice work!

    27. Marie Clark says:

      Thepnr @ 11.19.” Just imagine Kelly as finance minister, Sarwar in charge of Health, Leonard as First Minister Hahahahaha”.

      Hey Alex, that’s no funny, that’s a bloomin terrifying thought.UUGH!

      What an absolute shambles of a party when that is the best that you can get on financial matters. Jeez oh, did Jackie Bailey teach him how tae dae sums.

    28. Bob Mack says:

      Give the guy a break Rev. Like anybody else he only has 10 fingers and ten toes. —I hope.

      Calculations like that have him destined for Westminster and the higher ranks of Labour infamy.

    29. Proud Cybernat says:

      SLabour – they’re doing it deliberately. Filling Holyrood with utter incompetents, that is. If people in Scotland become aware of the sheer number of numbnut politicians in there, it’ll hammer home the narrative that Holyrood is just a ‘pretendy parliament’ and heaven help us if we ever become independent and these loontoons get control.

      That’s the strategy. You really shouldn’t be dissecting these buffoons so completely, Rev. It’s counter-productive in the long run.

      I just want to know, after the last EDIT, how many midget gems is that?

    30. Ken500 says:

      Why do they bother? A total,waste of time and space the Labour/Unionists. Ruining the Scottish economy and world peace for years. The can’t count or read a balance sheet. A total waste of money. 3rd rate rejects. Just appalling. The Scottish Gov extremely good value for money. Saving £Billions and bringing £Billions of investment etc into Scotland. With good well thought out policies. Except for the expense of the 3rd rate rejects. Promoting absolute nonsense. Telling lies and holding Scotland back. Liars always get found out.

      The reason there is less spent on Education and essential service is because Labour Unionists go in with the Tories,LibDem and others. To cut the Education money allocated. Keep classes higher do not employ enough teachers. Illegally use the statutory limit as the norm. Then cut £Millions from Education/essential services. To be spent on any other unnecessary nonsense. Building non mandate not needed shops, offices and Hotels. Shops and offices are sitting empty and hotels are under occupied. Getting £Millions into debt by borrowing money like there is no tomorrow. Causing traffic chaos, shutting essential roads unnecessary. Refusing a £80Million gift which would have pedestrianise the City. Not building affordable houses, schools etc,

      Cutting the allocated funds for essential services and public services. Wanting to put the homeless in prison. Cost more. Borrowing and spends on useless non mandate like is no tomorrow. The Labour fraudsters and their unionist enabler. Breaking the Law with impunity. Ruining the economy for years. Since 1928 and before. Trying to prevent democracy in Scotland. The McCrone Report kept hidden. Illegal wars and financial fraud, tax evasion. Iraq, Lockerbie and Dunblane kept secret for 100 years, under the Official Secrets Act. War criminals. Most of them should be put in jail.

    31. jfngw says:

      @Thepnr

      That’s one of the problems of the list system, Mr Kelly doesn’t actually represent anyone except Labour. He was unceremoniously ejected by the people at the last election, but he is still there, a political election double dipper.

    32. Andy-B says:

      James Kelly as Finance minister doesn’t even bear thinking about, it’s that daunting.

      Of course Labour are now just a party of protest carping from the sidelines. They’re not in a fit state to run an ice cream van, let alone a country.

    33. fillofficer says:

      is he a low-flyin jimmy
      as lovingly defined by our superiors doon by

    34. jfngw says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      You being very gracious there, I’ve seen no evidence that the politicians that Labour/Tories send to Westminster are of any higher calibre than the Holyrood ones. And looking at Westminster in general that the quality of the majority isn’t particularly high.

    35. Thepnr says:

      If Labour came to power who would be their Education Minister LOL

    36. Luigi says:

      11-year phew! It’s a relief that the public are sensible enough to ensure that the Scottish :Labour PartyBritish Nationalist useful idiots are prevented from returning to power. Just imagine the damage that idiots in office could cause (look no further than WM, nuff said).

      What really irritates is the fact that complete duffers like JK are kept comfortable on very nice, taxpayer-funded MSP salaries. Being of low IQ and completely clueless is no barrier to a fat pay check when you are a BritNat politician. Some of my hard-earned cash is going to keep that duffer comfortable. Now that stings. 🙂

    37. ScottishPsyche says:

      I often think the fear and lack of ambition on the Unionist side is because they know they are not up to the job when independence comes. They need the crutch of the Union.

    38. Breeks says:

      Even if he just took over tomorrow, hands up if you think Danny Dyer could still secure a better deal for Brexit than Theresa May and her entire cabinet.

    39. John Thomson says:

      This is why so many Scots think of themselves as poor, wee and stupid years of Labour half wits in positions of privilege

    40. Craig D says:

      But what is this in relation to WEMBLEY football pitch? I’m not used to seeing just general football pitches used to illustrate scale. They’re surely not official units of measurement!

    41. Foonurt says:

      Cawin oaccupints, ah inturr-planeterrae craft. Come in, Nummurr Wan – James Kelly M.S.P.

      Yoan Bill – “Whit’s anithurr name, furr Wullie Rennie?, iz jist iz glaikit.

    42. Dr Jim says:

      James Kelly always has the look of a man who’s wallpapered over his own face by accident

      Then doesn’t know what to do about it

    43. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      If thou gaze long into the nipple abyss, the nipple abyss will also gaze into thee.

    44. Artyhetty says:

      Certainly collects a fat pay cheque for doing b****r all except lie through his teeth. These people give not one jot about anyone but themselves.

      This article reminded me about Alex Salmond who gave some of his wages to charity, and the generous wage rise to MP’s Westminster awarded them, and if I remember rightly, at least some SNP MP’s decided to donate it to charity.

      Labour branch in Scotland have been keeping Scotland poor, were happy to keep life expectancy very low, terrible housing, terrible infrastructure, no prospects and no hope for the people, is how it went with Labour in charge, whether at Westminster, or Holyrood.

      If a full time carer dependant soley on the state to survive, it’s a generous £5K ( not a typo) you have to exist on per year, and the likes of Kelly would even take that away given half a chance.

      Trougher Kelly, waste of public money it could be better spent that’s for sure.

    45. Clapper57 says:

      Typical clueless parochial party politicking from clueless party politician. If he would search for his brain inside his head…hard I know…he would realise that there is a currently a much bigger issue via a scandal involving his former BT colleagues.

      Hey Mr Kelly, Seems to me that there is an awfully lot of powerful and wealthy people chomping at the bit for Brexit and with current speculation as to some alleged corrupt and secretive shenanigans involving prominent leave peeps ….well one does have to ask …who and how are these people benefiting from Brexit ?…I know this may be somewhat taxing for you to challenge Mr Kelly…being a humble bumble country boy ….small minds and all that…..

      You all may remember a certain female ‘investigative’ journalist on ‘BBC Scotland Investigates’ who did programmes on ‘Force in crisis’ , ‘How safe is my School’ (PFI) etc etc….so to me she and they should prove to us just how good they are at investigating and take this on….because allegedly twas this ‘Scottish’ Tory who donated money to DUP Brexit campaign…and why Tories sought to block the identity of donor re donation of £319,000 made to Jackson Carlaw , David Duguid and Douglas Ross by what has now been revealed as a mystery organisation called SUAT….who are they ?…Does James Kelly care ????

      Both of above need to be kept as high profile as possible….get them trending on twitter…big time…too many times serious issues linked with unionist parties disappear with no real impact on parties involved….let’s not let them do this…this is big and we the people want to ensure the media cannot ignore, sideline or diminish severity of this…..we want answers or we will hold them to account via some creative person instigating a # quote.

      Once again tis the Indy supporter and SNP that is left to hold the unscrupulous to account while tiddlywinks boy Kelly stares into space with his petty grievance agenda…..the problem with him and his party is that they actually think they can steal the SNP crown…where as realistically they should be going after the Tory position of second place….reality bypass is strong with Kelly and co…….who gives a sheeite though…let them carp from the sidelines while Rome burns…that is their political modus operandi is it not….which is why they are consigned to always be 2nd runners up politically.

      We want answers.

    46. manandboy says:

      Well done, Stu. Another peach of an article.

      As for Mr Kelly, C.A., list MSP for Labour and The Cooperative, Scottish Labour Shadow Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Constitution, the idea of him as part of a Scottish government is a joke.
      My dog would be of more use in Holyrood – he at least can find stuff, even when it’s well hidden, and he pays no attention to lies. It’s amazing what a dog can do for a bowl of kibble and the odd treat every day. For value alone, I’d say the dog beats JKelly,C.A. hands down.

      Until Independence, Vote SNP always. Join the SNP. https://www.snp.org/joinus

      As an SNP member, it is not necessary to have a dog, but if you are thinking of getting one, get a clever dog, then make sure he/she gets obedience training. After that, never vote for anyone who isn’t as smart as your dog. You won’t go far wrong.

    47. Arbroath1320 says:

      Breeks says:
      29 June, 2018 at 12:28 pm
      Even if he just took over tomorrow, hands up if you think Danny Dyer could still secure a better deal for Brexit than Theresa May and her entire cabinet.

      If anyone has any doubt about his capabilities I give you this!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W77154J0-w

    48. Auld Rock says:

      Jackie Baillie and her ‘Eejits Guide to Arithmetic’ again. Kelly should stick to what he’s good at……………eh, sorry nothing came-up apart from puke.

    49. winifred mccartney says:

      Ah but Mr Kelly and Ms Baillie could never manage to put the formulas into the Spreadsheet, if you cannot do a simple manual subtraction sum a spreadsheet would defeat you but then you would have someone else to blame, although rubbish in means rubbish out same as Mr Kelly and his ‘MIS calculations’.

    50. Capella says:

      James Kelly is a monument to Labour’s diversity and inclusion policy.

    51. James Kelly is not a Chartered Accountant; wiki speaks with forked tongue. He attended Glasgow Tech and is good at computers and finance. His wiki entryis as vague but misleading as that.
      If he were a CA he could earn a lot more than £1200 a week, which is way above his monetary value as it is.
      I suspect he wrote his own blurb on Wikipedia.
      He is an utter waste of parliamentary space.
      Can anyone imagine Dick Leonard, Ruth Up The Duff Davidson or,no stop laughing at the back there, Willie ‘Mental Health’ Rennie as First Minister, orKelly as Finance Minister, or Professor Two Jobs WATP Adam Tomkins ‘it’s the law!’ as Social Security Minister?
      It is small wonder that the SNP are in their 11th year and still popular.
      Iain Gray in charge of Education? Miles Briggs, who rose without trace to be second to Davidson on the Tory list, the only reason he is in parliament, as Health Minister?
      Is his family connected?
      The Unionist MSP’s are the dregs of the dregs. If they were any good in unionist terms they’d be down in London betraying Scotland at WM.
      What does Kelly do for a living all day, every day? He has no constituents because he was rejected at the ballot box.

    52. Arbroath1320 says:

      Jack collatin says:
      29 June, 2018 at 2:02 pm
      James Kelly is not a Chartered Accountant; wiki speaks with forked tongue. He attended Glasgow Tech and is good at computers and finance. His wiki entryis as vague but misleading as that.
      If he were a CA he could earn a lot more than £1200 a week, which is way above his monetary value as it is.
      I suspect he wrote his own blurb on Wikipedia.
      He is an utter waste of parliamentary space.

      There could be an alternative suggestion here Jack.

      Perhaps everyone he has “worked” for know how shite he is at working as a Chartered Accountant and word got round so he became “unemployable” as a Chartered Accountant hence his appearance on the Labour list every five years. 😀

    53. Thepnr says:

      No one named James Kelly is currently a member of ICAS the Institute of Chartered Accounts in Scotland.

      https://www.icas.com/find-a-ca

    54. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      The thing is, it’s not just Kelly.

      The prospects for NorthBritLab are now so poor (and fading again since the JC the Messiah mini-surge has passed) they have a problem recruiting people of real talent. The few which have any take themselves off to England ASAP where they can be fairly sure of finding a cosy berth somewhere. (The traditional pattern amplified.)

      The Red Tory Northern Outpost is slowly corroding from the inside. It lurches on as a miserable facsimile of the real thing, but has no viable future. Voters should take mercy on it and put it out of its (and our) misery soonest.

      It would be a kindness, really.

    55. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      I dont agree with personal attacks however… The man appears to be quite the nob.

      I think he will go far in British Nationalist Labour.

    56. Arbroath1320 says:

      Thepnr says:
      29 June, 2018 at 2:28 pm
      No one named James Kelly is currently a member of ICAS the Institute of Chartered Accounts in Scotland.

      https://www.icas.com/find-a-ca

      To be fair Thepnr would YOU want him to be a member of your organisation? 😉

      I know I wouldn’t. 😀

    57. Welsh Sion says:

      Thepnr says:

      29 June, 2018 at 2:28 pm

      No one named James Kelly is currently a member of ICAS the Institute of Chartered Accounts in Scotland.

      https://www.icas.com/find-a-ca

      ________

      Very odd. I can’t find him under CIMA, The Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, either. (See previous post under MSP’s biography).

      https://www.cimaglobal.com/About-us/Find-a-CIMA-Accountant

    58. Scottish Steve says:

      Why is it unionists screech like banshees with migraines whenever the Scottish Government does something remotely related to government, like reshuffle a cabinet or go abroad for an official visit? It seems they want to forensically analyse every single penny spent. But for some mystical, unknowable reason, this hawkish attention to detail goes out the window when it’s the UK Government doing these things.

      Ah, that’s right. It’s because the UK Government is a “real” government and the one in Edinburgh is just a pretendy one that should know its place or not even exist.

      And then they scratch their heads and wonder why the SNP are still in power.

    59. Aldo says:

      It kills me that we pay tax to pay the wages of un-elected Scotland haters like Kelly, the list could go on. What other country would put up with this. Seriously. This needs to stop.

    60. Iain says:

      James Kelly is still describing himself as a chartered accountant.

      This a lie: he has not qualified under any course of study by an accredited body which is permitted to grant that title.

      He has a wee college certificate in accounting with the use of computers.

    61. Hamish100 says:

      Kelly should sack his researchers as he is not getting value for money.

      On the other hand I’m no sectarian Kelly should use his cranium to come up with all the great ideas on how to remove the scourge of sectarianism in Scotland. Naw Labour and tory unionists need it.

    62. Legerwood says:

      Iain says:
      29 June, 2018 at 3:45 pm
      “”James Kelly is still describing himself as a chartered accountant.

      He has a wee college certificate in accounting with the use of computers.””

      Oh God, does that mean he knows about Excel?

      We’re b*****ed!

    63. Brian Powell says:

      Jeremy Corbyn saying Labour policy on Brexit is out of the single market and out of the customs union.

    64. Greannach says:

      Kelly reminds me of nobody more than Nicolae Ceaucescu on the balcony when the people started heckling and booing before his system collapsed. The life of status and entitlement he felt to be his right were gone. The old world of crony privilege had been undermined by ordinary people. Ceaucescu looked hurt and bewildered.

      Kelly is of an age when an easy life and position were the just reward for those of little obvious talent who joined the ruling party and remained loyal above all else. Kelly looks hurt and bewildered.

    65. ronnie anderson says:

      Kelly uased hands fingers knees and toasted toes an Jackie Baillies calculator , did that company he worked for go bankrupt .

    66. jfngw says:

      I think we can all agree that if Kelly is one of their best then it’s hard to fathom out what the rest must be like.

      More important to me is the attempt by the Tory UK Government ably assisted by Labour and the LibDems to try and obliterate Scotland as a country and make it effectively just a region of England. I’m getting on a bit but I will never accept this evisceration of my country, I can only hope those younger than me also will not accept it.

      Does anyone believe this removing the identity of Scottish produce has just naturally occurred at all the major outlet by coincidence. It has the fingerprints of government diktat all over it.

    67. defo says:

      Greannach

      He looked that way as they lined him and the missus up for the firing squad too, no doubt.
      Just saying…

    68. Petra says:

      Kelly’s going on about £285,000. How come you never hear any of the Labour MSPs at Holyrood complain about the billions that the Tories have been / are frittering away or get into Ruth Davidson’s face about Brexit? The impact, such as shortage of staff, of the pre-Brexit fiasco on our SNHS and so on? No forget about Davidson, they’d rather hound someone like Shona Robinson out the door with not one of them fit to lick that lady’s shoes…….. And don’t they know it.

      They’ve all got plenty to say about Mark McDonald too whilst covering up for their own colleagues. I sometimes wonder if it’s the calibre of Labour MSPs that keeps support for Independence under 50%. Even I get the heebie jeebies thinking of them being in control of an Independent Scotland.

    69. Bob Mack says:

      Another blank fired in the propoganda war. My good lady is furious about Union opposition to the NHS pay rise ( one union in particular ), who wants their members to refuse.

      The same happened this month when the GMB organised industrial action in Glasgow about the pay out for the women who fought for ten years against Labour Glasgow Council, whilst the GMB sat on their fat arsed and did nothing to help their members win.

      As soon as the SNP came to power it became a matter of urgency for GMB .

      Unions are no friend of the SNP because of their Labour affiliations. Leonard was I believe the Chair of the GMB in Glasgow.

      We may be assailed from all sides ,but we will win.Labour are a pile of scheming detritus, unfit to govern anybody.

    70. louis.b.argyll says:

      Even if a Labour MSP/Unionist read the above article, including the edit..

      They’d still, somehow, work in –

      ‘I want my original three buckets-full’

      Critics say the SNP are just trying to be smart.

    71. David R says:

      The state of opposition MSPs and MPs is probably the strongest argument against independence there is.

    72. Bobp says:

      Hamish 100 3.58.pm Absolutely, red and blue tories in Scotland are like vampires, feeding on the blood of sectarianism. Its whats kept those liebor bloodsuckers in power for decades.

    73. Andy Smith says:

      HandandShrimp
      The only thing James Kelly wants to genuinely improve is the Kelly household, just like many other slab mp/msp’s.

    74. Ealasaid says:

      Sorry O/T What do people think of this? David Mundell about to set up an alternative Scottish Administration?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tUSriHhKY

      This guy has been following these developments for months and I think he may be right.

      Sorry if this has been posted before.

    75. Legerwood @ 4.05 29th June says:

      ‘Oh God, does that mean he knows about Excel?

      We’re b*****ed!’

      From now on in shall bestow on the failed accountant the soubriquet (look it up Kelly, it’s foreign) ‘Spreadsheet Jim’.
      Seriously, we have a herd of Never Were Red Blue and Yellow Tories milling about aimlessly in Holyrood without an original thought among them
      Their sole aim is to disrupt Scottish Government business, and ultimately to make sure devolution fails and the Scottish People suffer to further the ambitions and Right Wing agenda of our neighbours to the South.
      They actively collude to destroy Scotland.
      If WM issued an edict tomorrow dissolving Holyrood not one of them would raise a finger in protest.
      Mags Curran would dance a jig with Mundell in sheer ecstasy.
      They hate Scotland.
      It takes a certain evil disturbing psychopathy to purport to be for the Many and not the Few, and stay silent while 200,000 kids of 3 children Just About Managing zero hours slave wages ‘hard working families’ are denied financial support by Ruth Davidson, Jackson Carlaw, Adam WATP Tomkins and Tavish Scott, while Spreadsheet Kelly tweets pish like this.
      I look to our young to rise up and crush this Old Guard of Red Blue and Yellow Tories. They are all in it together. Destroy Scotland and sell us all into slavery and isolation from Europe, at the mercy and whims of London.
      Scotland deserves much better than Jackie Baillie dozing in her chair week in week out.
      Rise up, Scotland. The hour is at hand.

    76. twathater says:

      @ Welsh Sion 11.42am loved your calculation of the Kelly ( claw ) just spat my tea oot

    77. defo says:

      Jack Collatin
      I’ve had my pitchfork sharpened & ready since morning of the 19th Sept 2014 mate, just waiting for the call.
      (Was that it btw ?) 🙂

    78. paul says:

      Easilad says What do people think of this?
      Horrifying,yet plausible.

    79. mr thms says:

      #Ealasaid @ 6:28 pm

      This is an article about the move..

      https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/departmental-teams-sign-new-edinburgh-hub

      The move is not until 2020.

      (2020 appears to be a key year for Scotland)

      Before Scotland can become an independent country it makes sense to have all the departments that a sovereign country would need to have, in place.

      Rather than seeing the move as a ‘takeover’ by Westminster, I am more inclined to think it is pointer that independence is around the corner..

    80. ScotsRenewables says:

      Totally off-topic, but I just banned a particularly annoying concern troll from a FB page I am an admin for. Never done it before, and I have to say it felt great. One click and a whole pointless, negative thread was gone.

      This time round there is NO POINT in wasting time and emotional energy arguing with the arseholes – let’s just concentrate on the 10% we need to convince, who ARE ready to listen.

    81. Robert Peffers says:

      Believe it if you will that James Kelly’s biographic data on Wiki includes this little gem:-

      “Kelly has a background in computing and finance, is a chartered accountant, and worked as a business analyst in East Kilbride prior to his election in 2007 … “

      Kelly, the man who put the less into the term, Gormless.

    82. starlaw says:

      An independent Scotland will not need a Scottish Secretary of State, there are more than enough civil servants already in Edinburgh. I’m sure this is a Colonial office.

    83. defo @6.57
      There will be a spontaneous mass rising as October comes and Eurmageddon is laid bare.
      I favour my trusty old fountain pen. Quink ink squirted into the eyes should sent them Southwards tae think again.

    84. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      All this typing about “Mr” Kelly.

      I’ve linked to this in the past but this page seems like an ideal opportunity for a reprise…

      http://www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/people/634-james-kelly-msp-a-transparent-profile.html

    85. Arbroath 1320 says:

      I agree with Gordon Ealasaid. Why on earth would anyone move into a new building and bring in over 3,000 Civil Servants basically all from London.

      Scruffy Fluffy is quite clearly on a mission to show those pesky Scots who was in charge .. and in his alternate universe it is him the Viceroy of Scotland.

      It was nice to hear Gordon mention that today was the deadline for Feartie to produce her plan for the Eire/NI. border and she FAILED miserably on this matter. The big question now is what will the E.U. do?

      If memory serves me right Feartie had to produce her plans for the Irish border by today otherwise the Transition period she keeps pratling on about how great it is will be withdrawn.

      One question here. How brave will the E.U. be and tell Feartie her much beloved Transition period is no more and her beloved corrupt broken bankrupt U.K. will be leaving the E.U. on 29th March 2019!

    86. twathater says:

      O/T but very very important ,

      Watched incar Gordon Ross earlier today PLEASE check it out

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tUSriHhKY&feature=em-uploademail

      I commented

      TBH Gordon I think Nicola Sturgeon should be highlighting and exposing this duplicitous highjacking of our SG and parliament , there should be an emergency debate about this open threat to Holyrood and ALL who sit there . There is no need for a duplicate SG that we did not elect or vote for . This basically amounts to a coup d’etat by stealth under our very nose . Is it to be a fait accompli where troops are brought in to quell dissent , this is very dangerous territory , this has to be challenged and STOPPED , wake up cringing brit nat parties your future is at stake the Scottish people will never forgive or forget your treason?

      This has serious implications for Scotland when are WE going to stop this shit

    87. Iain says:

      Woops the labour party are revealed to be a bunch of fannys again.

    88. Petra says:

      You couldnae make it up.

      Article in today’s Sun: ‘A squad of 5,000 cops are on standby for Donald Trump’s potential one-day visit to Scotland….

      Police Scotland don’t have a final confirmation but are having to prepare for his visit which will cost us £5 million….

      Potential cost implications are unquestionably significant as the force faces a £35 million funding black hole….

      Bosses said the skint force has been ordered to foot the huge bill despite the controversial trip being arranged by Westminster.

      Stand in Chief Constable Iain Livingstone said: “We have had to cancel rest days (and axe holidays) and change shifts for many officers with significant disruption to people involved and their families”….

      Calum Steele of the Scottish Police Federation – representing rank and file cops – blasted the £5million price tag facing Holyrood to cover Trump’s one day visit to Scotland. He said “When is the United Kingdom not the United Kingdom? When it comes to picking up the policing bill for the visit of the President of the United States.”

      He added, “Additional central government funding is being made available to cover the exceptional costs police forces in England and Wales will incur for their part in policing the visit. The argument that policing in Scotland is devolved and must therefore meet its own costs is disingenuous. President Trump is not visiting to meet the Prime Minister of England. His visit is in an official capacity to the United Kingdom. As such Scotland should be as entitled to draw on additional central government funding as any other police force in the UK.

      The Home Office said policing in Scotland was a devolved matter.

    89. Austin Flynn says:

      I am not a member of the SNP, not even content with independence. I am a republican and want the abolition of the monarchy which I consider is the lynch pin of the union.I counted the number of comments and no doubt like Kelly i got them wrong as they kept increasing.
      I did notice, reading them the comments concentrated on Kelly with very few suggesting on the ways and means of making capital of his lackadaisical approach to the manipulation of data. No doubt the labour party, could even be Mr Kelly will retaliate on the appointment of at least one in your leaders new cabinet.
      Many more people than members of the SNP are interested in removing the shackles of the union from our basic right of freedom. It galls me that the SNP are in a unique position to galvanise the Scottish people towards our aim, but no, its seems Mr Kelly and tit for tat politics deflect us from this goal.
      Is there a unionist fifth column at work within our midst?
      Is the monarchy so sacred that it is untouchable?
      The only way to get rid of the Tories is in conjunction with the other parties. Is there any move to bring that about?
      Thats my feelings, I will stop now and let you get on with the deep investigation of his mathematical shortcomings

    90. Artyhetty says:

      Re; Arbroath 1320@ 8.18pm

      Yep, 3000 English civil servants being moved by the UKgov, into Edinburgh, Scotland’s capital city, having rented a 20 year lease on a building. Wait, we have our own administration here already in Scotland, and plenty of exremely competent people who should be employed to oversee any governmental system that works for our democracy.

      Thing is, this is not about Scotland’s democratically elected government, it is quite simply a takeover.

      Where will the 3000 English civil servants be housed I wonder?

      Does the UKGov expect Edinburgh to house them? Is there a gated village already built?

      Well, at least they will have all the Scottish SNPGov perks, free prescriptions, free tuition for their kids, publicely owned water, improved infrastructure, ( phew it took decades if not freaking centuries!) so they can travel about a bit easier and cheaper. ‘All good’, as they say, annoyingly.

      Re; twathater@8.44pm

      Yep, put nothing past them, it will be false flag stuff, or invasion, though Scotland is effectively an occupied territory.

      Scary days.

      Ps. Maybe the Scottish parliament summer recess should be postponed right now? Sorry.

    91. Artyhetty says:

      Re;Austin Flynn@9.35pm

      No idea what you are saying re Scotland, and independence, but if you want to know a wee bit about the royals, read, ‘Living off the state, a critical guide to royal finance’, by Jon Temple, 2008, Progress books. That’s if you can actually find the book at all…a wee tip of the iceberg re the royal family and boy are they a big, big family, and of course, extremely, extremely rich, beyond your imagination. Defo not too wee, small, or poor, they have taken lots of Scottish land as well. Nice and democratic! Not.

      They are also not accountable in law, for pretty much, well, anything really. They can hide almost everything legally, finance etc, it’s just so shall we say, quaint, don’t ya know!

    92. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      O/T and from the previous topic.So apologies
      I have done so because I think this is a very significant issue and we must face it sensibly.
      If we want to make sure that the English that come her don’t support us complain and make a lot of nasty noise about them. If on the other hand we are pleasant,friendly and helful we wilget a very different result.

      “Is an assumption here being made that all the English people coming to Scotland are NO voters. Very far from the case and getting further from it. We have a significant number of English people in our SNP branch and English people helping in the Forward Shop in Dunoon

      And do you know what? They are easier to convert to YES than many of our own.As soon as you make sure to them that they are welcome they start walking towards us.That is why we will be reassuring the many that live in this area that we are very happy to have them as friends. That removes their defensive nervousness and many of them really do want to march with us to a better future and a better country than the one we have left.”

    93. Dr Jim says:

      @Austin Flynn

      Start your own party

    94. North chiel says:

      “ Brian Powell@0412 pm” . Jeremy Corbyn has to “ Bow” to the Britnat establishment, if he is to be “ considered “ for entry to no. 10 with his “ 2nd eleven” Britnat government. Consequently, for him to “ get the nod” and the media to back him , he has to “ toe the establishment line” . Little surprise that he was in Scotland today making the usual promises for increased public spending under London Labour for Scotland . Of course Glen Campbell avoided asking him the RELEVANT question on the “ Westminster power grab” because of course Britnat Labour will certainly not reverse this assault on our Holyrood parliament. Neither will Britnat Labour scrap trident or HS2 ,Heathrow or Hinckley, ( all massive Public spending principally benefiting London& Home Counties). If in indeed a GE is called later this year , expect Corbyn to be up in Scotland on a regular basis with his false prospectus given maximum exposure by Pacific Quay. Expect also “ Devo Supermax mark 2” and the usual anti SNP drivel. Hopefully our outstanding FM will have recognised by now that Britnat Labour is no different to the Britnat Tories both fully paid up members of “ the Westminster Establishment” .

    95. Rock says:

      “Because even if Scots don’t yet want independence, they sure as heck don’t want completely clueless, hapless buffoons like James Kelly running their country either.”

      The SNP is giving the Brit Nat unionists the best of both worlds.

      The austerity governments at Westminster combined with incompetent Labour-Lib governments in Scotland and Brexit would probably have resulted in a 10% majority for independence by now.

    96. Dr Jim says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      We need the help of our friends in English Scots for YES to become more vocal towards new English people coming to Scotland, for the most part English people don’t carry the baggage of being part of the sectarian argument so that’s always a bonus and one less argument to overcome

      But we do need more visibility from them if they can manage to spread themselves out and teach these new folk that Scotland doesn’t intend to make them not English, they can still be who they are and we’re not scary monsters secretly planning to drink their blood

    97. Petra says:

      Wee Mundell plus his 5000 civil servants will be located in Edinburgh. This will include Gillian MacGregor now Director at the Scotland Office who took over from Francesca Osowska nine months ago. Francesca an economist who was doing an excellent job. And Gillian McGregor ………. what credentials does she have for the job?

      ..’Previous to that Gillian (McGregor) has spent the majority of her career in immigration and counter-terrorism roles in the Home Office in London and also spent 3 years on secondment to the Cabinet Office in the 1990s. From 2001 onwards she spent 8 years working in counter-terrorism roles including VIP and Royal Security, Critical Infrastructure Protection and Crisis Management.

      In 2007 she had a central role in creating the Office for Security & Counter Terrorism (OSCT), forming it into a successful cross-government hub for work on terrorism and serious crime.

      In 2009 she took up post as Principal Private Secretary to the Home Secretary and managed the transition of Home Secretaries from the Labour to Coalition Government working for Alan Johnson then Theresa May during that time.

      After nearly two years in the PPS role she moved to Immigration Enforcement in 2011 as the Director of Intelligence leading a team of around 500 staff, including teams working overseas…’

      http://www.gov.uk/government/people/gillian-mcgregor

      Looks as though Gordon Ross is on the right track and it’s time we bailed out.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6tUSriHhKYAnd

    98. Ken500 says:

      Some voters in Scotland are giving the Brit Nat uninonists the best of both worlds.

      The SNP are given them an alternatives which an increasing number are taking.

    99. Ken500 says:

      The Scottish Office is funded by Scottish taxpayers. If/when Scotland votes for Independence It will be taken over as part of the administration. Or dismantled and a new administration centre formed.

      Just vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.

    100. Ken500 says:

      Gillian McGregor is the one illegally throwing people out of Scotland. What a cheek? Depopulating Scotland. Needs her jotters.

    101. Austin Flynn says:

      Dr Jim., I appreciate the brevity of your post.

      I fancy SR (Scottish Republicans) as Nationalism is getting a bad press at the moment. I dropped the word party for obvious reasons as allegiance relates to country, not party. A subtle difference, don’t you think.

    102. Meg merrilees says:

      Arthetty @9.41

      So will these 3,000 civil servants get to vote in the Indy ref 2?

    103. Welsh Sion says:

      Petra @ 10:19 pm

      Just supplementing your piece.

      https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillian-mcgregor-1373795a/

      (You’ll also find me there on LinkedIn – but you’ll have to be prepared to stalk me!)

    104. Meg merrilees says:

      Petra 9.32

      Didn’t Mundell say that Scotland is no longer a partner , but is now part of the UK. we didn’t invite him to visit us!

      If policing is devolved, then, we should just refuse to Police the visit!

    105. Famous15 says:

      I share the concern of Gordon Ross . Link @ Petra 1019.

      There is no other rational explanation FOR 5000 “British” Civil Servants operating in Edinburgh.

      How Trojan Horse like do you need? Folks keep on mentioning in the canteen ,at the bowling club and even at the Labour club. “Whats that about” is all you need to ask? Sow the question,reap Independence!

    106. louis.b.argyll says:

      Scotland- Colony of the UK Government.
      Now just part of UK instead of (as agreed) the partner of England.
      Denied self-determination by a parcel of shallow rogues, some medieval self-certification and a complicit well salaried media.

      What a state.

    107. Thepnr says:

      Scotland only employs 17,000 police officers how are 5,000 of them required to protect a visit by President Trump for a day? Sounds excessive to me though of course I get the point that extra costs incurred should be paid for by Westminster.

      A pure guess no more than 200 police would be directly involved in projecting Trump. Let’s hope all that turns out to be irrelevant and he doesn’t come here anyway.

    108. Thepnr says:

      The US Secret Service who’s job it is to protect the president of the US has just 7000 employees.

      I wonder how many will be coming to Scotland or will they rely on the 5000 local bobbies to do the job LOL

    109. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘Mundell’s Folly’ will have 3,000 staff, then it’s 5,000…

      Forgive me being a bit tetchy but could we please have some fucking sources?

      Thank you very kindly.

      😉

    110. Famous15 says:

      @ Thepnr your figures would be OK if he did not land his helicopter or remained “airside” in his plane,however the Ploice Scotland figures are appropriate to police demonstrations and safe passage. They did not have the T shirt in my day but “did that”.

    111. Famous15 says:

      The US Secret Service not only protects the President but onerously protects the US currency.

    112. Thepnr says:

      It really couldn’t get any more ridiculous than this.

      Bin crew shortage ‘due to Brexit and nuclear build’

      Chairman of the Somerset Waste Board, councillor Derek Yeomans, said: “We should be advertising these jobs as a fitness course.

      “These people are walking 10 to 15 miles a day.”

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-44654835

    113. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      I believe the figure is 3000.

      It will house almost 3,000 UK Government workers from the Scotland Office and other departments – including staff from HM Treasury, HM Revenue and Customs, the Information Commissioner’s Office and the Office of the Advocate General.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16319947.scotland-office-to-move-location-and-join-with-uk-government-hub-in-capital/

    114. manandboy says:

      Re Petra above. Gordon Ross has the pieces fitting together so perhaps it’s time to pay attention.

      Mundell now has the building, the 5000 member civil service, and himself ready to move in and now needs only emergency powers legislation at Westminster, or simply at 10 Downing Street, to take over the governance of Scotland from Holyrood.
      Simultaneously, the same emergency powers will be applied in Wales and NI.
      In this way, a no-deal hard Brexit will create a UK with no devolved administrations and a Dictatorship at 10 Downing Street.

      One might ask, if this is the case, how long has this been in the planning. The answer may well be September 19th 2014.

      If this turns out to be the case, then a number of things will take on new meaning, like the almost complete Tory lethargy during 2 years of so-called Brexit negotiations. Like the endless Brexit delays. Like the never ending can-kicking down the road. It all fits if the Tory Government plan was to buy time until they were ready to takeover the running of Scotland – and Wales plus NI.

      Not forgetting the DUP/UDA-Tory alliance. To control Scotland, Theresa May’s backroom team will want to utilise the paramilitaries from NI to help ensure, if necessary, that Scotland is kept quiet.

      Without Scotland, England will be bankrupt and facing ruin. To avoid this, desperation alone would be sufficient to concoct a plan such as outlined by Gordon Ross.

      Scotland’s No Voters do look like they are in for a shock.

      But what future for Scotland?

    115. Dr Jim says:

      @Austin Flynn

      I’m not entirely sure you’ve got this political thing nailed down, y’see if you’re not the Unionist party meaning any of the threee joined at the hip Tory Labour Lib Dem party, no matter your name you’ll never be flavour of the month with the power that is which is London ownership or nothing, you will be crushed, the fact that the SNP are where they are is an overwhelming achievement which has taken 80 years to break the system and that’s why so many support that particular party

      If the SNP happen not to be your favoured route to Independence then in a Union you shall remain because the SNP are the only party capable of getting Scotland out of the Union

      There is no magic wand to this, no heroic person or diety will appear to make it all so, the politics of division before Independence meaning *the I’m not happy unless it’s my kind of Independence so I won’t vote for it* will make it happen, all that kind of nonsense will just make everything take longer

      There’s only one way Independence will happen in Scotland and that’s for more and more and more people to join the SNP and work together for the same thing……….. Then you win…

      After you’ve won, your choice of political persuasion can be anything you want because the chances of that being relevant in an Independent Scotland are a million times more likely then in a Union with England who has spent 300 years keeping hold of you with death, threats, promises blackmail and financial ruin if you don’t do as you’re told
      in exactly the same way they *lost* every other country in their glorious empire because that is the big flaw in our masters mentality, they never change tactics because it’s all they know

      As for your, I think dislike of the EU I would just point out a tiny tiny place called Wallonia and rather than go into it here in great depth you could look it up and a more shining example of how democratic the EU actually is will become very clear, and also you should remember anyone can leave a club which is what the EU is but leaving the UK as I’ve aready said and many countries have experienced can lead to death, because our masters in London don’t like to be disagreed with and they use all the power of their media press and slaves to enforce their will

    116. Capella says:

      @ Dr Jim – spot on. That is a very concise explanation of the actualitie. I don’t think anything further can be added.

    117. North chiel says:

      Petra @ 1019& Manandboy @ 1204, if Gordon Ross is correct , then all along Brexit has been used as a “ smokescreen” for what really matters to the U.K. establishment ( “the precious precious union” ). The Tories don’t give a toss as regards “ the prosperity” of their “ fiefdom “, just as long as they have “ absolute power” to rule as they see fit ( Boris J confirmed this earlier this week with his “ Fcuk British business” comment ). Everything appears to be coming together for a “ Brexit Breakdown” and the simoultaneous “ requirement” for Westminster to enact “ emergency powers” due to the inevitable food and energy shortages etc as a result of a “ cliff edge Brexit” . If Gordon Ross has called this correctly then this is nothing short of a “ facist dictatorship” taking over our country . Holyrood will be sidelined and the EBC will be put on a “ war footing” level of propaganda with the “ colonial viceroy “ Mundell broadcasting nightly bulletins from his “ new bunker” . This will be nothing short of a democratic outrage against our country and our people . If this is what has been planned all along then our FM must call an Independence referendum “ come hell or high water” ( before they attempt to put her and our government in jail).

    118. Thepnr says:

      @Dr Jim

      You almost persuaded me to join the SNP but not yet.

    119. Dr Jim says:

      @Capella

      I always think of the series *The Prisoner* where our hero no matter what he did could ever escape because he wasn’t considered a person, he was a number, number 6 and that was all his value was to his masters

      I am not a number, I’m a free man

      If we all join together we’ll be a free nation

    120. Benhope says:

      Who says the oldies have lost their sharpest wit?
      Robert P wins the accolade for funniest comment of the day.
      (James Kelly put the less into gormless).
      Lang may your lum reek Robert and thanks for the education on the history of the constitution.
      As an afterthought, how I hated Shakespeare at school.I was good at English but hated a different Shakespeare play every year at secondary school.
      If only we could have had some Neil Gunn or Lewis Grassic Gibbon, a boring lesson could have been transformed into a relevant and enjoyable subject!

    121. Dr Jim says:

      @Thepnr

      Joining the SNP’s not like it’s a Tattoo you can’t remove

      Have I got you thinking again?

    122. My desert boots are older than Paul Sweeney.
      My wife is from Belfast.
      What a prick.

    123. Capella says:

      @ Dr Jim – I think your analysis is correct. I joined the SNP on the weekend after Indyref1. The least I can do is join the SNP and turn up at the Indy marches. Literally, the least.

      There is no other vehicle for gaining independence although individuals who have a reason not to join a particular party can still support the cause.

      Independence is the only vehicle for democracy in this state. On that score, ” The peoples’ cause is a good cause.” (Thomas Muir). Only the SNP n deliver democracy in Scotland IMO

    124. Benhope says:

      Re yesterdays posts.
      After reading the two so called contentious blogs by Gillian Martin. I did not find anything in them racist or anti ethnic in them.
      If anyone has a sense of irony or humour surely Gillian`s blogs can be accepted as a very good satirical contribution to the discussion.
      Gillian,you are welcome to the SNP and hopefully to a promotion in the future.

    125. Hamish100 says:

      3000 of mundells troops waving the st georges flag

      Nothing sinister in that surely?

    126. Reiver97 says:

      The gobsmacking ineptitude of the leading figures and the terrifyingly low calibre of the elected representatives of the opposition parties in Scotland is probably the greatest argument against independence that they actually have.

      When they declare ‘too poor, too wee, too stupid’, they are surely basing this on the intellectual paucity of those they put forward to potentially run a nation.

      And that is sure enough a terrifying prospect, until you look at who is actually running the UK these days, and who their only potential alternative in Westminster is.

    127. Graeme McAllan says:

      This Kelly-Felly is no right in the heid 🙁

    128. mr thms says:

      I’ve always had a notion that Article 50 (and its five parts) was a process for the internal enlargement of the EU, and that when the UK leaves the EU in March 2019, the ‘transitional arrangements’ was to facilitate the dissolution of the UK and enable the successor states to rejoin the EU.

      Which is why the announcement of civil service departments and jobs relocating to a new hub in Edinburgh by 2020 is interesting… it was predicted.

      http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/57708/1/Transitioning-to-a-new-Scottish-state-PD-ebook.pdf

      “Transitioning to a new Scottish state

      Immediate set-up costs, how the handover will work, and the
      long-run viability of Scottish government

      By Professor Patrick Dunleavy, with Sean Kippin and Joel Suss”

      It was written before the Scottish Referendum.

      While the timetable way out, it does make you wonder if Scotland is in the process of ‘transitioning’.

    129. Breeks says:


      manandboy says:
      30 June, 2018 at 12:04 am

      …..Without Scotland, England will be bankrupt and facing ruin. To avoid this, desperation alone would be sufficient to concoct a plan such as outlined by Gordon Ross.

      Scotland’s No Voters do look like they are in for a shock.

      But what future for Scotland?

      Since Scotland cannot understand its own Sovereignty, the Westminster Parliament is going to look after it and keep it safe for us. All it will cost us is our National output as a country, exploitation of our resources and people, suffer contempt and disrespect for our history and achievements, chronic underachievement and poverty for our people, slaughter of our natural wildlife and natural flora, and see our youth conned into believing a militaristic Scottish exceptionalism that makes them bullet proof on the battlefield.

      For as long as we allow ourselves to be talked out of what being sovereign actually means, for as long as we link Sovereignty to a democratic mandate, Scotland is going to remain Constitutionally paralysed.

      Sovereignty is both the minimum requirement, and everything we need, both at the same time. Use it or lose it.

    130. cearc says:

      re. Trump visit. In the absence of an invitation from the Scottish Government he is visiting as a private citizen. Why should we pay for his security?

      Police Scotland should provide no more than the same level of protection as they would for the First Minister.

    131. Les Wilson says:

      I think Gordon Ross’s idea of the Mundell’s new offices being prepped for use to Govern Scotland after a declaration of a National emergency. It would by necessity need to include Wales and NI. The catalyst being a sudden hard brexit move by Westminster and they are preparing for trouble.

      So, it does not seem too outlandish that this is how they subdue
      Scottish aspirations.

      What is also troubling me about this is why the SG are not doing or saying anything about it. They will certainly be aware, that Westminster is up to no good.

      Such is the way all dictatorships
      start. They should be shouting very loud about this, I am confused as to why they are not doing so, and I am a long standing SNP member.

    132. Les Wilson says:

      I remember reading, last year I think it was, that the British military had received something like 150 armoured scout car type vehicles.
      Comments at the time were asking what they were for. No answer was found, but if the declare a national emergency that would fit.

      If you connect all the dots, a hard brexit may have been the intention all the time. We need Indy very, very, soon.

    133. Robert Harrison says:

      James Kelly you will sit down shut up and do your maths again as that’s a fail 33k out ffs no wonder mays always bringing up Wales to attack labour at pmqs if labours this stupid.

    134. starlaw says:

      Instead of paying millions to protect Trump can he not be hidden in plain sight.

      Place a comfey armchair in an old horsebox and tow him to Trumpberry behind and old Landrover Defender. No one would ever guess he was there.

    135. Luigi says:

      Les Wilson says:
      30 June, 2018 at 7:59 am
      What is also troubling me about this is why the SG are not doing or saying anything about it. They will certainly be aware, that Westminster is up to no good.

      They certainly are aware, Les. What good would shouting do at this stage? Not much, I’m afraid – that would suit the BritNats fine (major distraction from the real battles, almost upon us). No, the SG are busy working on their own plans (note plans plural because they have factored in a number of scenarios).

      The only side with barely a single, proper plan is WM. Yes, they are up to no good but i’ts more of an “in-your-face” oppression and domination than a proper plan. Their deliberate humiliation of the SNP at WM has backfired big time. IMO this big move of the SO to Edinburgh is also a grave error. Such a presence will give the indy movement a massive rallying call – where do you think future protests against WM in Scotland are now going to focus on?

      The indy movement should be considering this wonderful opportunity to disrupt WM business in Scotland, this wonderful new focal point in Edinburgh to set up camp. The SO may soon rue the day they decided to embark on this cunning plan. 🙂

    136. Les Wilson says:

      Luigi says:

      I agree with almost all you say, I do trust the SNP to have a grip of this. However, to alert public opinion to these events, would likely boost Indy even more.

    137. Giving Goose says:

      O/T but paints a picture.
      London government is to hold next years armed services day in Salisbury, because of the “Novichock” attack.
      Dressing up in military stuff is always a sign of a system under stress.

    138. Thepnr says:

      there is “no place in 2018 for sectarianism or prejudice against any section of our community – that includes the Orange Order”.

      Wonder if Arlene Foster has told that to her pal Ruth Davidson.

    139. Dorothy Devine says:

      Giving Goose has just reminded me of those poor souls the Skripals and that most unfortunate only other , the policeman , affected by that fantastically ,lethal , dead in minutes novichok attack.

      How are they all ? All three? How is Salisbury? Has everyone been frantically washing their clothes and wiping handbags etc. with baby wipes? Are all those green tree frog clad guys and gals back in Porton Down? And is Russia still BIB BAD RUSSIA or have we moved on to some other reds under bedz?

      Is there an investigative journalist out there , ferreting out the answers for this and many other questions including why we have an influx of civil servants and a big new Scottish Office with a hideous helmsman with no interest in defending or improving my country?

      Perhaps STV and BBBC could do an expose ( can’t do an acute)?

      Should we drop them some hints ? They obviously have plenty of SNP BAD stories and plenty of cat up a tree tales to stop their mouths from giving any SNP GOOD stories – after all they would be severely punished and sent off to some rehabilitation camp were they to tell the world that the SNP is doing great things for the old , the young , the middle aged , the poor and the Scottish NHS is so much better than its English/Welsh counterparts not to mention the Scottish Police force appears to be doing a better job than those South of the border and that we have teachers in classrooms as opposed to the untrained off the street – happy holidays to them , they really deserve a bit of peace.

      Btw , I was really delighted for the England football team , I understand from the commentators that they wanted to lose the game against Belgium so that they wouldn’t get a more difficult team in the next round – so Well Done the boyz!

    140. Ken500 says:

      The jobs are being sited in Edinburgh which would be normally sited in London..The Mall and the London Ministries paid for by Scottish taxpayers. The Tories know they can’t much longer. Scotland is going to go for it. Independence. A transfer of power. These Civil servants noted are usually employed in tranferring administration from administration to another administration. Ie at Westminster.

      They have experienced of transferring power from Johnstone (Labour Home Secretary) to ConDems (adminstration) These jobs are the admin concern and experience necessary for a transfer of power (not necessaily from a UK gov to a UK Gov department) but from a UK base to a Scottish Edinburgh one. Preparing for Devolution/ Independence scenario? Even unexpected not bargained for the outcome. Things not going to plan.

      These jobs are usually based in London. To complete a power take over from Scottish Gov to Westminster. These jobs would have stayed in London and even expanded there in the Mall ministries. They are adding to the Scottish economy economically just by being based here.

      The Tories are going to get voted out. It is just a matter of time. They know it so does everyone else. The EU etc. It is a lame duck administration. Losing power and support daily. The mess and muck up continuing. Disasterous. In the end they will have to go. They are making a mockery of good administration. Just lining their pockets as long as they can on people’s misery. Hanging on.

      There is a constant element of powers being extended to Scotland gradually from London as the demand for Devolution/Indepenence grows. It is being done gradually. In a more controlled gradual way. It is accepted that Scotland has a lack/deficit of Democracy. The powers are being prepared to take over by an administration in Edinburgh.

      The day to day administration of gov is done by civil servants who are supposed to carry out the wishes of the elected administration. To be a power grab these jobs would have remained in London or increased there. Scottish administration down from London.

      Could it be some preparation for Independence, A transition period. One of these civil servant has experience of terrorism , migration policies etc. The SNP haven’t been very vocal about this transition. Condemning it. They can’t speak out much about these matters because of the Official Secrets Act. They have to take an oath to adhere to, especially civil servants but politicians as well.

      Civil servants run the day to day governance. The day to day details of administration are done between Scottish civil servants working from Holyrood and the Civil servants in London. Civil servants carrying out the wishes of the elected administrations.

      The Tories know they are on a shoogly peg. Why the tranfer in the circumstances? For a power grab or the increase in Westminster Gov power. The jobs would have remained and been expanded in London as per usual. In the Mall. They are illegally chucking out people.from Scotland. Deporting them. Refusing entry. When Scotland could have a more relaxed migration policy. Except voters voted NO, IndyRef1 because they were lied to. Liars always get found out,

      Scottish soldiers are putting out fires on the Saddleworth moors.

      Why would it cost £5Million to,police Trump’s visit he has his own security. Increased US presidential. Trump has invested £Millions in Scotland. Quite a few people have benefitted.

      How much does it cost to Police Orange Marches every week? Why do the Police not object to that and the provocative disorder. Incitement to violence. Like most Police in Scotland. The marches are banned in many towns and cities. A secret society marching the street. They are not tolerated in most places.

    141. Thepnr says:

      We’re heading for the Brexit finale. The government meet next week and have to come up with some concrete proposals to put to the EU by then or it’s game over.

      Anybody believe that this is possible?

      There is not a chance in hell that the Tories can put their disagreements aside and present anything concrete to the EU.

      There’s fudge though, lots and lots of fudge, that’ll do 🙂

    142. Dr Jim says:

      All state visits are at the invitation of the state and Scotland is still a member of the State of the UK so all costs associated with such visits are paid by the state which is the UK and its treasury

      Even whether Trump comes to Scotland or not Scotland will pay its 8% share of that bill the same as NI or Wales will pay their respective percentages

      Policing in Scotland is a matter for the Scottish government but paying the total cost of UK invitations is not otherwise the UK could presumably be inviting all sorts of dignitaries Willy Nilly to Scotland anytime they chose to look at a mountain and we’d have to pay for it
      So Humza Yousaf is in this case 100% correct and the English government are once again big fat liars

      If Scotland invites say the Queen to open a bridge Scotland pays for it, the same in Wales or NI
      If you didn’t have a fair system like that each country could start inviting people to visit something every five minutes and make the others pay part of the total cost

      So once again the UK gov are big fat giant liars who weasel words and they’ve shown themselves up once again as the untrustworthy Bastirts that they are and our ancestors were right, just take yer sword and half them down the middle and get on with your day coz it’s a waste of yer time talking to them

    143. Thepnr says:

      “Clarity! I’m looking for Clarity has anybody seen Clarity?”

      Says Theresa May as she stumbles dazed like around Chequers.

    144. Luigi says:

      Don’t worry about BREXIT, folks. HMG are hard at it, striving to solve the conundrum.

      Their aim is not to solve insoluble issues and help the people of the UK, but to find a way of dressing up their imminent national defeat and humiliation as a great victory. A sort of Dunkirk proclamation. As Thepnr says, there will lots of sticky, sickly fudge involved. Everyone will be a winner and we will all go back into our boxes. Aye, right.

      All I can say about the new Scottish Office “castle” in Edinburgh, I hope governor Mundell has had the sense to install a secret escape tunnel during construction – he may need it.

      Poor britnats – my heart bleeds. 🙂

    145. Undeadshuan says:

      We need to hold steady and once brexit is at point of no return have our referendum for independence.

      By then the majority will see independence as the only option to escape brexit. Given that 68% dont want it in scotland this our best chance we will ever get.

    146. Thepnr says:

      No says Boris, sit down and enjoy your fudge. I’ve added a cherry.

    147. Southern Rock says:

      Leader of the DUP Arlene Foster is marching in Fife today.

      She stands for, Unionism, Racism and Bigotry.

      She is also propping up the Tory Government, so I wonder if any of Ruthies Babes will put their marching shoes on and join Arlene for a walk in the sun?

    148. Undeadshuan says:

      I meant to add, we are nearing the point of no return, next march would be ideal time for the referendum.

    149. Legerwood says:

      Dorothy Devine @ 9.12am

      According to a report in the Herald today Salisbury is to be the venue for Armed Forces Day next year. Wee boost for the local economy.

      Also, on CH4 news last night Kathy Newman interviewed the Russian Foreign Minister and the Skripal incident was discussed.

      https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-russian-foreign-minister-accuses-uk-of-extermination-of-the-evidence-in-skripal-case

    150. Dr Jim says:

      You know what I’m looking forward to post Independence
      Scotlands *journalists* scuttling around maintaining they really wanted Independence all along but they wurnae allowed tae say, and maybe they’ll begin by calling the First Minister by the title conferred y’know the same way they call the Prime Minister or Theresa May, and not just Sturgeon with the spit of contempt

      Seeing as how we have to be a civilised country now all those *journalists* post Independence should be lined up against a wall where the poplulace can throw rotten fruit at them for about a week or till we get tired then let them back to their desks to unlearn their stupid adversarial approach to English style reporting and learn to report information and news like proper countries do

      It’s easy, tell the truth

    151. frogesque says:

      O/t.

      Personal plea from a Fifer here, please, please stay away from Cowdenbeath today. Ignore the OO bigots and knuckle draggers. Don’t give them either excuse or oxygen.

    152. ScittieDog says:

      We need to come up with a name for mundells new office..

      The wade building?
      The Cromwell office?
      The clearences?

    153. Ken500 says:

      The £5million cost of policing? Exaggerated. His one day visit to Scotland. Most folk will not even notice. He has visited quite a few times before. At no great expense, except to himself. He has his own security. The increased presidential security will be paid for by the US Gov not the UK one. There might be an increase in Policing costs in London but May cut Police funding in London. Now Mayhem on the streets of London. Difficult to control.

      The Royals overall cost is £400Million. Maybe some of that should be spent on the Police. Instead of ceremonial duties and extravagance. Charle’s income is £20Million. He pays £2Million in tax. Less than 10%. Plus other expenses paid. The Royals are supposed to be unbiased and impartial. Totally non political. There are interfering in matters of State illegally. Both secretly and openly. Tory puppets. Engaging in illegal wars and foreign affair matter. A breach of the terms of a constitutional monarchy. A totally impartial Head of State which in some quarters there is a argument to support.

    154. Ken500 says:

      The journalists have already started. Foote, ‘the Vow will help bring Ibdependence’. When quite the opposite was intended. A fanciful notion.

      The Scotsman is up for grabs. Will Alex Salmond & Co make a move? It is possible. The preparation is being made for a more balanced Press report from Scotland. RT and the internet.

    155. ronnie anderson says:

      Thepnr Fudge fudge fudge an me starting ah diet lol. On a more serious note 200 no essential operations to be removed from NHS England. Haemorrhoids being just one , but who cares the Red & Green bench sitters in Westminster have their collective arses covered in the form of BUPA taxpayers funded of coarse the Plebs will be left to scratch the heads in wonderment , sos their arses .

      Scotland better get ready for Medical Tourists.

    156. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Would like to thank that good old wasp chewer Arlene for taking the time to march with the British Nationalist underclass today.

      How many more members has she helped the SNP to recruit?

      How many dont knows just stepped accross to Yes.

      To Arlene and the poor bigots I say thank you.

      Every little help is appreciated.

    157. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Removing pile operations from the English NHS is wrong.

      At least they will have something to fall back on, they will just have to put it behind them.

      Sorry.

    158. There was an OO (apprentice boys I think) parade here in Methil this morning at Memorial park.

      There were about a dozen local people, if that watching them, some took photos.
      I simply ignored OO as I walked past them.

    159. ronnie anderson says:

      frogesque nae worries oan ma part ah’m in Buchanan St Stall today

    160. wull says:

      Southern Rock says:
      30 June, 2018 at 10:07 am
      Leader of the DUP Arlene Foster is marching in Fife today.

      She stands for, Unionism, Racism and Bigotry.

      URB… or … BRU (Bigotry, Racism and Unionism) …

      Does that mean AG Barr and Co have a competitor in their own ranks?

      No more Irn-Bru required.

      You can have Arlene-BRU instead …

      ‘Hey David! … Aye, you, Mundell! … Put that Irn-Bru away … Drink up your Arlene-BRU instead!

      Arlene-BRU: with the best formula of all … Far far better than Barr’s new sugar-free recipe:

      Arlene-BRU: EVEN MORE BITTER!

      Drink up Davey Boy! All yours! Don’t squirm, and don’t baulk at it! Don’t turn up your nose! And stop dribbling doon yer beard!’

      What a bargain … At a mere billion pounds a can …

      Drink up, man!

      Your job depends on it!’

      Fill the House of Commons Bars with Arlene-BRU …

    161. jfngw says:

      In my years of employment I decided that it was not worth the effort fighting every battle, target your efforts on the battles where success is the more likely. I hope this is the SNP strategy, no point wasting your effort fighting the hopeless battles.

      I should know this having recently joined them but I’ve not yet really engaged and I’m not even sure I have any real attributes they need (not great face to face as my annoyance with people is only too evident). At least it is a symbolic gesture if nothing else.

      Also recently we have learned that Westminster has, with the Fort Kincaid and EU farmers cash, appropriated around a third of billion pounds of money that should be in Scotland’s control. I suspect this might be the tip of the iceberg

    162. Robert Peffers says:

      @Benhope says: 30 June, 2018 at 1:06 am:

      ” … If only we could have had some Neil Gunn or Lewis Grassic Gibbon, a boring lesson could have been transformed into a relevant and enjoyable subject!”

      It was just that I was very, very lucky during my time in the Scottish Education system. My primary school teacher was a very gifted born teacher from a long established family of teachers. On going on to secondary education my history teacher was his sister and an equally gifted teacher. That lady, in the days when every teacher was armed with the Lochgelly Tawse but utilised any of the standard teaching implements from sticks of chalk to heavy wooden blackboard rulers or equally heavy wooden pointers as weapons or projectiles.

      The lady was never known to have belted a pupil because she had the gift of making that normally driest subject, history, into a live, entertaining and interesting subject. I also had an English teacher who spoke both Lowland Scots and the Gaelic and who shared my love for the old Scottish Makkars.

    163. Thepnr says:

      Alex Salmond speaks out on the Vow.

      However, Mr Salmond remains convinced The Vow had an impact on the vote.

      He said: “I warmly welcome Murray Foote as a new recruit to the independence cause but he heavily underrates the significance of the Vow which was a journalistic masterpiece but politically disabled Scotland at a crucial moment…

      “It only needed to influence one in 20 of the population to swing the vote and I think it did just that.”

      http://archive.li/Tndhn

    164. Robert Peffers says:

      @Graeme McAllan says: 30 June, 2018 at 4:00 am:

      “This Kelly-Felly is no right in the heid.”

      The Scottish Lowland language is a wonderfully descriptive language and has many terms that perfectly describe that, “Kelly-felly”. I can immediately think of a couple – ‘glaikit glowerin gomerel’ and ‘sodie-heidit’, spring to mind.

    165. Johnston Press shares have nosedived from 400p to 3.5p,basically worthless,

      someone could probably pick up the Scotsman/Scotland on Sunday for hee haw just so they can get them of their books,

      you would need some capital to keep it running (wages infrastructure,pensions)but long term with the right editor and a pro Independence editorial you would see sales increase 10 fold,

      just a thought to anyone (or group) out there with good Scottish business sense and a decent sized cheque book,

      `The Scotsman` name is worth the risk.

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      @Les Wilson says: 30 June, 2018 at 7:59 am:

      ” … What is also troubling me about this is why the SG are not doing or saying anything about it. They will certainly be aware, that Westminster is up to no good.”

      Oh! Right! So it’s all the fault of the SNP/SG then, is it Les?

      Taking into consideration that the Westminster Establishment’s Propaganda Wing suppresses even FMQ’s and the SMSM wouldn’t report it if Nicola Sturgeon was yelling it from the top of the Scott Monument with a loud hailer, could it possible be that you, personally, just haven’t heard about it.

    167. Clootie says:

      As Kelly would say. “…..but,but,but SNPbad…me good at big sums.”

    168. Sarah says:

      I am very frightened today – Gordon Ross has convinced me that there is a plan by the Establishment to take over Scotland [as if they haven’t already] in a very nasty way.

      They never have been tolerant or fair nor done anything to facilitate the improvement or extension of democracy, or truth as in recognising Scotland’s right to exist as a normal country and equal of England.

      thms above suggests the new office and arrangements for the “Scottish” office are for Scotland’s benefit as an independent state, an example of foresight and planning by UK Govt!! No!!! They aren’t even preparing for Brexit so they certainly won’t be preparing for Scotland’s restoration.

      I want to write and check that the Scottish Government and SNP have a plan in the case of such a move by UK Govt but don’t know who are the best people to write to. Advice please!!

    169. Cuilean says:

      Scottish Govt only in charge of circa 25% of power. UK Govt still retains 75% of power and about to grab even more.

    170. Robert Peffers says:

      @starlaw says: 30 June, 2018 at 8:16 am:

      ” … Instead of paying millions to protect Trump can he not be hidden in plain sight.”

      While your comment did raise a smile, starlaw, the subject is not actually rocket science.

      If it is an official presidential visit by an invite from the SG than the SG bears the cost.

      If it is an official presidential visit by an invite from the Westminster Establishment than the Westminster Establishment bears the costs.

      If it is a private, or private business, visit by Donald Trump then Donald Trump personally, or the Trump Business Organisation, bears the cost and, lets face it, ‘The Donald’, can better afford it than the hard pressed Scottish People that the USA are subjecting to import sanctions on several exports that Scotland makes to the USA.

    171. Robert Peffers says:

      Luigi says: 30 June, 2018 at 8:21 am:

      “They certainly are aware, Les. What good would shouting do at this stage? Not much, I’m afraid … “

      Indeed so, Luige. I, and at least most Wingers, knew what was going on – so how did we find out? I don’t watch TV, I hardly ever listen to the Westminster Establishment controlled radio stations and don’t read the Westminster controlled SMSM.

      So I’m informed but not misinformed.

    172. cearc says:

      Sarah,

      I’m pretty sure that the SG are keeping a close watch on what’s happening.

      I would suggest writing to Ian Blackford. Not only is he your MP, he probably overhears more tittle-tattle from the tories at westminster.

    173. Robert Peffers says:

      @Les Wilson says: 30 June, 2018 at 8:30 am:

      ” … However, to alert public opinion to these events, would likely boost Indy even more.”

      Indeed so, Les, but how do you propose the SG, SNP or the YES movement go about doing so?

      If such things are even mentioned by the Westminster controlled media they come with a preface and analysis by such as Brian Taylor and are spun to suit the Westminster agenda.

      It is very common for even a First Minister’s Statement, both live and recorded, to have both the sound and vision faded down to background and the main picture and audio be that of Brian Taylor, or some other unionist minion, to be the main picture and audio as they spin the statement as it goes out over the airwaves to the public.

      I don’t know if you are aware that virtually nothing is actually a real live broadcast these days. Think on this, how does a production team manage to, “Beep Out”, a swear word during a live broadcast?

      They can only, “Beep Out”, something they have already heard ot it is out over the airwaves before anyone could do anything about it. The reason they can do so is because it is NOT a live broadcast but has an in-built digital delay. They used to have an endless belt tape that first recorded then played back the outgoing signal. Now it is all delayed digitally so the production team has time to Beep out anything they need to.

      The fading of the main sound and vision and overlaying another signal on the main picture is done live and the over-laid stuff need not even be in the same place as the main picture.

      So ask yourself the question, why would the BBC want to have Brian Taylor talking over the First Minister and fading the FM down in the first place?

    174. Robert Peffers says:

      @ScittieDog says: 30 June, 2018 at 10:26 am:

      ” … We need to come up with a name for mundells new office..
      The wade building?
      The Cromwell office?
      The clearences? … “

      We could whitewash it, and call it, “The White House”: Oh! Wait! That’s been done.

      We could paint it brown and … … think of a more appropriate name for it.

    175. Dorothy Devine says:

      Legerwood , thank you for that . I loved the Senior member of the Foreign Office quoted as saying, ‘This is so blatantly concocted as to be verging on the stupid”

      I’m quite fond of Mr Lavrov , he says what he thinks and it seems logical and considered.

      I love the fact that Cathy Newman appears to think that Russia is very guilty in Syria but somehow we were all sweetness and light in Iraq Afghanistan and Libya.

      I find our media and politicians double standards and hypocrisy quite breathtaking.

    176. Les Wilson says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      Robert you are always a bit quick to attack anytime anyone says something about the SNP, but misplaced in this occasion.

      I support the SNP, the only party I have ever supported and for many many years, and will continue to do so. The best government Scotland has ever had.

      I spoke of a concern that I had,I think I am allowed to do that. However I felt that the party should make sure things like this are extended to the public at large and that it may also help Indy.That is all I said.

      Yes it was a wee criticism that we are all entitled to make if we feel it is correct to do so. So please draw back and stop being so quick to attack someone like me and catch breath Please.

    177. twathater says:

      @ Scottiedog 10.26 am , new name , howsabout, The Ratrun , or Treezas Folly , or Fluffy’s sandwich shop , or The Britnat Gravy Boat , or Treezas Gold Mine , or Bastirts Rest , or howsabout just The Britnat Shithole

    178. Sarah says:

      @cearc 12.15 – thank you for reassurance and advice. I have written to IB before with “helpful” ideas like hold the referendum now, and not heard from him. I know he’s a busy man but wondered if he doesn’t respond to delicate issues if one isn’t an SNP member.

      Having said that, he did phone me once – mind you, in my email I identified myself as a recent donor to the constituency funds!!

    179. Daisy Walker says:

      @ScittieDog says: 30 June, 2018 at 10:26 am:

      ” … We need to come up with a name for mundells new office..
      The wade building?
      The Cromwell office?
      The clearences? … “

      How about – The English Embassy.

    180. Cactus says:

      Hey Daisy Walker and ‘ScittieDog’ says… likey 🙂

      ” … We need to come up with a name for mundells new office..
      The wade building?
      The Cromwell office?
      The clearences? … “

      How about – The English Embassy.

      Aye, let us clear them out when the time comes.

      Let’s put our Scottish DVLA people in that building once we’re aye.

      Aussi, did anybuddy else hear the lady newscaster on LBC radio earlier this morning, when she appeared to dictaciousley refer to the leader of the Labour party OF England as…

      “Germany Corbyn.”

    181. Fred says:

      “Stinking Billy Buildings?”



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