Remember when this happened?
Posted on
August 26, 2019 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We see Gordon Brown is celebrating his 500th article promising “federalism” in the Scottish media today. Which is nice. We always enjoy hearing about the stuff Labour pretends it’s going to do when it’s in power.
But like everyone who’s been waiting 100 years and counting for it to abolish the House Of Lords (a pledge which also gets another runout in Brown’s latest intervention, bless him), we won’t be holding our breath.
I think I have heard this crap beforehand!
Auto correct Arrrggghhhhh. Just before
If anybody believes a word Gordon Brown says or is reported to have said they’ve only got themselves to blame, or they live in a cave with no access to human interaction
Just like Gordon Brown
Whenever I see brown I usually think of only one thing.
Mental illness – and then criminality, serial liar and megalomaniac.
Has anyone ever made up a ‘Carry On’ style poster with all the laughing faces of the loudest-shouting Laburites who took the ermine?
What a hoot that would be!
“Wa-haaa-ha-haa-ha!” Sid James style…
😉
http://archive.fo/eGU3N
If we had a decent press in this country, folk would know that Brown has serious personality issues and would not listen to a word he says.
I can’t help but think of Cartoonist Moodie’s Gordie as a dinosaur stumping about whenever this sort of things rears up. Gordie hungry for headlines. Aunty give Gordie headlines for good fart.
Aye!
Came within an ace of being bestowed with the ‘Freedom of Fife’
A narrow escape. 🙁
It staggers me that someone with Broons personality disorders ever made it to chancellor or even consequently PM, he winged and whined at Tony Blare for so long like a petulant child.
But then again I think of Trump and now BoJo.
Come on Scotland let’s get the f*#@ out of here!!!
I feel sorry for Gordie. He has developed some strange, anti-Scottish ideas in his head but he hasn’t realised that they are there.
They are just spouted out as he feels they are needed but he doesn’t realise that the rest of us are doing a wee shackie-heid at his proclamations.
He really should retire himself from public duty(?).
Gordon Brown…
Promising the earth since dinosaurs roamed the stage..Oh!
😀 😀 😀
David Icke is correct about lizards.
“Scotland is trapped between two extremes – Boris Johnson’s anti-European conservatism and the hardline separatism now advocated by Nicola Sturgeon’s SNP.”
What goes on inside the mind of someone this far out of touch, which impels them to actually utter such drool?
£££
We’re not trapped, we have a choice.
Hardline! ffs
Scotland and England are like an abusive marriage. One partner controls and bullies the other. When the abused partner decides to escape and live a life free from their abuser that is not extreme it is sensible.
Ian
Hattie Jaques playing Baroness Liddle , Jack Douglas playing Gordy Brown and Chuck Hawtrey as Alistair Darling in the new smash hit Carry on Lying” a farcical tale of broken promises, the duping of a nation , if it wasnt so sad it would be funny, said one 1 star reviewer. Jack Douglas surely must scoop best actor oscar for his portrayal , said Mark Kermode
Brown so consistently serves this idea it should be called federeralism.
WGD has a great pic on his latest blog illustrating this very point:
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/08/26/the-smell-of-panic
He also makes the same observation as some here in the previous thread about a similar outburst of non-substance from fellow Bitter Together crapologist Ed Davey.
It would be such a sweet response to all such ongoing flim-flam if the SNP took Shetland in the by-election this coming Thursday. Roosting chickens, etc. But it’s such an enormous ask that we may have to be content with a much improved showing. We’ll see. But the writing will likely be on the wall anyway.
Tavish Scott surely had the right idea, get out on his own terms while he still could.
Reading that 1995 blurb, all I could think of was the bit in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy fil, when thy arrive to try get whats her name out of the clutches of the slavering slobbery aliens, and they say, ‘ oh no, YOU need the BLUE form, the white one is for’, blah blah.
It’s all a con in other words designed to stop you achieving your goal. You know Labour must be THE biggest con trick if ever there was in political history, pretendy lefty for the workers, yet lining their own pockets some paid £300 a day sitting in fat seats at House of Lards, especially when it comes to Scotland. My god has UK Labour party taken all they could from Scotland and the people of Scotland, right.under. the.noses.of. the. people.
Labour= biggest con on the planet, CONS.
Scotland knows better now, SNP need to keep both feet on that plate though! Once conned, easily conned again…I know, there must be some better way of saying that.
Brown is going to obsessively keep on draping himself with federalist clothes. The Miss Havisham of politics.
Permit me a change of topic. I’ve just got back home from a BBC Shetland Hustings Debate for this Thursdays Bye-Election for a new Constituency MSP and where our Candidate Tom Wills might just be the one to end the Fib/Dem hegemony in what they regard as their Northern Fortress. There are ten candidates and when asked, For or Against Brexit nine were against Brexit – I’ll let you guess which Party was ‘For’.
Aye Gordon, Scotland caught between the two extremes of Boris Johnson’s anti-European ultra-conservatism and Nicola Sturgeon’s pro-European social democracy.
LOL. What a berk!
Delusional.
He can go back to bed now that he’s performed for the cameras, like a dancing frog.
Heard the man in person on R4 this morning – amongst other things he said, he stated that …. at the time, the SNP promised that the referendum (2014) would be a once in a generation event….
Funnily enough, that wasn’t challenged by the interviewer.
Nuff said!
Think there is GE coming – maybe in September. 9 tories were out and about in Cambusbarron (just outside Stirling) on Sunday, chapping doors.
As someone said upstream one of the first thoughts his name evokes is criminality. Hes is guilty of gross incompetence in public office, lying to the public on a myriad of occasions, and above all being a key player in propagating an illegal war based on outright falsehoods which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands with many more maimed and/or impoverished. In any decent society he would be in jail with no hope of release.
Hi Robert, I’ve just got home from the BBC, Shetland Hustings Debate and Tom got a great reception. The Fib/Dem candidate, a lovely genuine lady, but was well and truly toasted by Tom. Incidentally, there are ten candidates with eight present and one stand-in due to claimed illness, they were asked where they stood on Brexit, For or Against, eight were against and two for – I’m sure you know the two ‘Fors’. Don’t hold your breaths but there is an outstanding chance that Tom might just end the Fib/Dems hegemony in what they regard as their Northern Fortress.
Fingers crossed.
Meg merrilees @ 23:53,
Something is indeed brewing, but “when?”, that’s the question. Kathleen Nutt in yesterday’s (Mon.) National had the scuttlebutt that the Tories are thinking of 17.Oct. Risky for them pre-Brexit, but could be for the reasons previously mentioned by Thepnr. So events may well still prove him right. =wink=
Auld Rock @ 00:03,
Thanks for your on-the-spot update. Good to hear that they still do hustings there! Hard to know though what the reaction of the “stay-at-homers” might be, but I think the optimism is such now that maybe we’ll be unnecessarily disappointed if it’s still a win for the Fibbers.
Still, like you, here’s wishing Tom all the best. A win would be well-deserved indeed.
He reminds me of one of those poor, demented, captive bears that are forced to perform for their masters.
The outlaw gordon brown………..
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=w66ywNA8Vpc
Random thoughts here:
If we win the Shetland by election, and despite recent gains during canvassing, it’s still a big if, that leaves SNP on 64.
Now, Red Ken McIntosh cannot vote when presiding, so that leaves votes at (without the Greens) SNP – 64 V the rest, (even if the Greens voted WITH the unionists) – 64
Is is possible to have a VONC in McIntosh and vote in the current SNP deputy as PO ?
In the event of a tie, PO votes with SNP Gov !
BOOM…Effective SNP Majority.
Is this reasonable ?
Watching FMQ’s from July on Parliament channel…
After slaughtering James Kelly, the PO declares Murdo Fraser as next up.
FM: “First i get James Kelly, then I get Murdo Fraser, if it wasn’t the eve of the summer recess, I could easily think christmas has arrived” !!
🙂
Brown actually thinks we give a toss about him.
Sad individual.
WHATS THE bEATLES SONG? he’s a real nowhere man ..
He’s a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
0/T people but here are my latest thoughts on NO Deal Brexit, as proposed by PM Johnson. The picture is not nice, to say the least
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2019/08/26/faq-mr-no-deal-warning-ireland-and-scotland/
As I’ve said before. If the judiciary (Supreme Court) does back dictatorship when Boris tries to suspend parliament, it will then be down to whether the constabulary and the army does so as well.
The latter two I think will make decisions based on how big or how small the ensuing street protests are.
Interesting times.
“However, he said the Scottish Parliament had proved a disappointment” translates roughly as “it has failed to be the Labour Tammanay Hall that we planned”
Deja Poo- The feeling you’ve heard this crap before.
People still mention RBS as though it’s a Scottish shame and blame and “we were bailed out”, and it’s really not easy tracking down the blame location. We know it’s London, but how, exactly?
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20111222121057/http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/rbs.pdf
Check out GBM London. Check out the Chairman and CEO. They had adjoining offices in 135 Bishopsgate EC2 London on the ninth floor, and Goodwin was at 280 Bishopsgate – London EC2.
(https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tUstAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT160&lpg=PT160&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Best I can do, I’ve lost interest now.
Careful with the chronology by the way, GBM exists and was cleaned up, though not for sime time, and the other partner in grime was “RBS Greenwich Capital” who got renamed and sold off and as far as I can see OK these days.
Caveat emptor, but the Bishopsgate addresses in London are useful if right, rather than the vague “It was London”.
Groups are a pain really, there’s this from 13th November 2000 “Company details The Royal Bank of Scotland plc 135 Bishopsgate London EC2M 3UR”
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/traders-and-brokers/membership/member-firm-information-sheets/member-firm-information-sheets-details.html?issueNumber=2000/120
this: “RBS ASSET MANAGEMENT LIMITED” – check out Brian Crowe 2 entries as Director
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05097950/officers
(from a letterhead:
RBS Global Banking & Markets
RBS ASSET MANAGEMENT LIMITED
135 Bishopsgate London EC2M 3UR
Maybe someone did all this stuff already, but I can’t find it.
What’s the difference between a magicians wand
And Gordon Browns propaganda pieces?
One is for Cunning Stunts.
Hamish 100:
“WHATS THE bEATLES SONG? he’s a real nowhere man ..
He’s a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody”
Hamish, that was the Kinks.
Brian Fleming. I recall the Beatles doing it. It’s in my head. Maybe the Kinks did a version.
Boris is not the only right wing buffoon.
Sorry Brian it is a Beatle’s track from their Album Rubber Soul. I think it is actually the fourth song and it is also a Lennon/McCartney composition.
The only people taking Gordon Brown seriously, are Sarah, the propagandist BBC, and pig-ignorant Labour folk in England (who buy into the BBC spin).
The man is just an embarresssing joke. He still thinks its 2014, poor chap. Wish they’d get him some help.
Well since everybuddy is talkin’ aboot Gordon Flasher Broon…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8scSwaKbE64
He’s a nowhere man aye
Wont even bother reading it, sounds like the same old rubbish my Grandparents swallowed a hundred years ago, my parents also swallowed the Labour pill as it was their only hope. It seemed to be coming good in the sixties but my mother said “it wont last ordinary people are not supposed to be better off” . . she was right, stroll on Labour . . your day has gone.
A Government spokesperson said there were no plans for Parliament to debate that it should be, in law, standard practice for the Government to conduct unlawful and dishonest campaigns, and to rig elections and referendums, while continuing with the charade of British Democracy?
I mean, let’s just use balloons instead of a football in Premier League matches while we’re at it.
The conclusion in both cases is that neither would work, and yet the Tories are quite happy, nay rely, on corruption to win power and stay there.
You want human, democratic and civil rights. Then fight for them. The Tories won’t give them to you, quite the opposite.
Voting in an Independent Scotland should be made mandatory. Lots of other things are. Funny that. Tory voters vote. No loss then to the Ruling Class when people don’t vote.
If those who didn’t did, Scotland would already be Independent.
“Looking forward to my surgery this afternoon in Lochcarron. Having parked up I was very pleased to see a house with a pro EU message and just a few doors along a EU flag flying. Scotland, an independent Scotland, will be staying in the EU!” . Ian Blackford 22nd August.
Music to my ears, but I have two fundamental questions.
1. How do we do it?
2. Why are you virtually alone in saying this?
In answer to No.1, the only mechanism which I believe capable of saving Scotland from an October Brexit is a Constitutionally based interdiction. There seems no time for anything else, but even disputing UK Sovereignty needs administrative preparation and groundwork, yet I see no sign of it either at home or abroad. I don’t have the dates to quote, but Joanna Cherry’s successful ECJ test case to establish the right to revoke Article 50 was weeks, if not months, in preparation and process. Is it credible to believe these preparations are already well advanced but remain secret? Or can a Constitutional dispute be truncated or fast tracked?
In answer to No.2, for every heartening comment confirming Scotland will not be Brexited and will stay in the EU, there would seem twice or three times the number of comments focussed upon an IndyRef which there isn’t any time to hold, a People’s Vote there isn’t any time to hold either, certainly not before the imminent Brexit deadline in October. There are even more comments centred around a post-Brexit landscape with Scotland looking to re-apply to join Europe. Where is the consistency in this narrative? Are we pulling in all different directions???
What is going on here? Is this “policy for all seasons” type rhetoric, a pick-n-mix of hollow rhetoric papering over deeper divisions? I have no option except to be deeply suspicious. If you’re not lying to me Mr Blackford, then why isn’t everybody singing from the same hymn Sheet? Do you mean it Mr Blackford, Scotland will not be removed from Europe, or are you just saying what you think I want to hear?
Labour actions (1) & inactions (2) when in power tell their own story.
1. The transfer of 6,000 square miles of Scottish sea to England in 1999, effected by New Labour by Order in Council literally the day before the Scottish Parliament came into being. It is known as the Scottish Adjacent Boundaries Act.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/01/scotlands-stolen-seas-technical-explanation/
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/01/scotlandengland-maritime-boundaries/
2. 1997 – 2010. Why did Labour continue to hide the McCrone report from 1997 until 2005 when it became available under the FOI act?
I’ve never seen any real explanation from Labour for either of these other than from those long retired from government.
As always – actions speak louder than words. Or equally true – follow the money.
Deja Vow.
Ah Prudence Brown the man who told us he’d ended boom and bust.
And what of Mr Brown of the ” “vow” .
The guy is a failed chancellor, failed PM.
He and his prudent stewardship facilitated the banking crash. And then he sold the UKs gold off cheap. He ruined private pensions and then moving on the Ego became Britain’s worst PM.
Does anyone believe a word that comes out of this guy’s mouth.
Better Together now Gordon – eh what !
O/T:
Against my better judgement, I submitted this to the BBC just now.
“Ian Watson’s report this morning (27/8) was biased not with regard to what he said but what he did not.
His piece was on opposition parties attending.a key meeting on potentially calling a Vote of no confidence which if won would see him installed as interim PM ahead of a General Election.
Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson’s intention to attend was reported as was Anna Soubry’s, while the DUP’s non-attendance was also mentioned.
The LibDems have 14 MPs and were – correctly – accorded their place in the piece.
The SNP have 35 MPs and yet, it appears, were ghosted out of existence.
So my question is simple – why was the SNP excluded from such an important news item when their participation in numerical terms, is THE deciding factor in whether Corbyn’s plan has even the faintest glimmer of success.
Your forthcoming explanation will either confirm or assuage the growing belief in Scotland that the BBC is deliberately and repeatedly excluding the SNP from news items even when their actions have a huge bearing on events.
In short, the BBC stands accused of bias by ommision and episodes such as this only serve to further undermine its tattered reputation North of the Border.”
@Heart of Galloway
Sounds like BBC attitude is “If we don’t think about them, they might go away.”
Fat chance. Only way we’re going away is with Indy.
Quote from National article on Shetland election.
“Teams were out all over Shetland, braving the wind and rain every day for Tom Wills, all chapping doors and working hard to put Shetland at the heart of Holyrood.”
What has happened to the idea of Shetland enjoying a Faroese status in an independent Scotland?
Shetland truly at the heart of Shetland.
Hjatland í midju Hjatlands as ancient Shetlanders might have said before their culture was wiped out by predatory Scottish mainland settlers centuries ago.
What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as the Inglis say.
Oh and if the SNP didn’t support Corbyn’s plan and it failed because of it, they’d then be all over the news bulletins. You could put your mortgage on it.
Jo Swinson would rather condemn Scotland England Wales and Northern Ireland to a no deal Brexit rather than put Jeremy Corbyn into Number ten because she knows that in return for SNP votes Corbyn would immediately offer the section 30 order for an Independence vote in Scotland
Swinson’s choices for interim Prime Minister Ken Clarke (and or maybe Harriet Harmon) would not make the same offer to the SNP
While everybody’s doing politics to try to get their own way over this Swinson’s hatred of the SNP and Scotland shines through, because with Scottish Independence Liberal Tory Democrat leader Jo Swinson is out of a job looking for an English constituency who’ll vote her back into one
Swinson might not be the smartiest brain in the class but she’s a nasty piece of work and will do anything to maintain her career, including destroying the UK
Breeks@7.42.
You obviously consider that the leader of the SNP at Westminster has been saying this for the past six months just for the sake of it. Good for you son.
I asked you some time ago if you trust Ian Blackford et al to deliver. Entirely predictably you failed to answer.
So I will ask you again. Do you? I do – and such a view is not born out of blind faith. Well?
Yes. Yes we have heard that one before.
Mr Brown is either disingenuous, delusional or stupid. People can make their own minds up on which description fits best.
Wow
First time on my life I am right about music!
My teacher played Peter and the wolf on his 33rpm record player incessantly is all I remember. Got the belt for playing drumd with my fingers!
Jo Swinson has managed to persuade the Change.Org or whatever they’re called this week to back her because Anna Soubry and a couple of that lot don’t want to see Scottish Independence either
Apparently most of the Tories couldn’t give a hoot about Scotland or it’s Independence so it makes no difference to them as long as England gets a deal
This is all going to end up as glue again
Lenny Hartley says:
26 August, 2019 at 10:07 pm
I never worked out how civil servants put up with Brown’s (and his outriders like McBride) bullying and outbursts. How does somebody get that institutionalised?
Labour will always make promises about what its going to do when it’s in power.
Until it gets actually gets into power and the promises vanish like snow of a dyke.
SO Gordon Brown can promise whatever he likes, because he has no power or authority to deliver any of them.
What Plaid Cymru are up to – and their stance with regard to Brexit and Corbyn.
Meeting today @ Westminster from 11.00am
https://nation.cymru/news/corbyn-must-commit-to-remain-for-plaid-cymru-support/
If you can remember your school days, in the sixties anyway, they were keen on Brownian Motion in science.
‘The erratic random movement of microscopic particles in a fluid, as a result of continuous bombardment from molecules of the surrounding medium.’
Now we have Broonian Motion:
‘The erratic random claims of defunct ex-politicians in the media, as a result of continuous bombardment of propaganda from the colonial medium.’
Scottish people are always looking for the next set of deceitful, lying fannies to have faith in and follow like loyal wee dogs.
Dont dare tell them the truth mind you. It takes Scots more than burned fingers to wake up. It takes near total immolation.
The British Nationalists know that Indy2 will be decided by 6 or 7 % of soft No`s either crossing over to Yes or deciding to stay with No,
to a patriot federalism is a non starter,
to a soft No federalism is a maybe option,
the battle ground for Indy2 is the soft No vote,
not the patriots nor the British Nationalists will change their vote,
Nicola knows this,every thing she does and says has to be targeted at the soft No which pisses of some patriots,but a true leader sees the bigger picture the end victory not the small battle.
Brown had the audacity to claim the SNP are advocating hardline separatism.
I think you’ll find Brown its Westminster that’s advocating it.
You’re an embarrassment to Scotland.
Call Kaye:
Should Scottish schoolchidren all be getting Ipads
Unionists phone in and say Naw!
Normal people say Aye
Call Kaye tries her level best to ridicule the whole idea with her patronising attitude and practically begging Naw people to phone in because it’s all a SNP plot to brainwash our kids and buy SNP votes
So far we’ve had the *eyes* argument, the attention span argument, the too much technology argument, the replacing the teacher argument, because that’s what the SNP are up to, the one I liked the best though was the *what’s wrong with pencils* argument
Kaye does all this from her digitally controlled radio studio at the BBC, or maybe she thinks it’s all done with two cans and a bit of string
Wheeling out Gordon Brown so often lessens his impact. More repeats than the BBC these days. He is yesterday’s man, the percentage of the electorate that hang onto his every word is diminishing.
A small anecdote. At the pensioners’ club the other day, one cheerful soul was commenting on the present political situation in Scotland. If there was to be another referendum soon, (he had voted No) he said that a lot more of members of the club who voted No have passed away than those that voted Yes. Not sure how he knows how people voted and that would be the same for the rest of the country. He is not too anti-Independence as he was – he detests Boris Johnston.
In America in 1938, Orson Wells broadcast an adaptation of HG Wells” The War of The World’s,” without a long introduction.
The result was mayhem. People were arming themselves, whilst others committed suicide rather than face the aliens. Panic gripped America.
Folk are susceptible to anything if it is presented with conviction. Our natural tendency to question is overidden.
Brown tries this technique in all his ridiculous speeches on Scottish independence. Say it with conviction.
None of it is true of course, but fear makes people doubt their own logicAl train of thought. That is what he relies on.
Aw don’t be too hard on them. At least they re-nationalized the railways….oh, hang on, wait….sorry my mistake.
Heart of Galloway says:
27 August, 2019 at 8:47 am
Breeks@7.42.
You obviously consider that the leader of the SNP at Westminster has been saying this for the past six months just for the sake of it. Good for you son.
I asked you some time ago if you trust Ian Blackford et al to deliver. Entirely predictably you failed to answer.
You know very well you didn’t ask me if I trusted Ian Blackford, or et al, you asked me whether I trusted Nicola, and the answer you were given was No, because they are as slippery with the truth as you are.
Frankly, given the SNP’S general attitude towards Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty, and the sovereign democratic Scottish mandate to reject Brexit, in spite of what Ian Blackford says, I personally thought adopting a soft Brexit option was outrageous and unconstitutional, and whatever faith and confidence I did have in the SNP started heading for the door.
I wish I could share the blind faith which many have in the SNP, but when it comes to Scotland’s Brexit, “I gotta baaad feeling about this”. We had an unprecedented constitutional impasse which Westminster could not / cannot escape without breaking the back of the Union, but then our SNP party of Independence arbitrarily overrules the will of the Scottish people and proposes a soft Brexit alternative. Trust them??? Good God, What the hell were they playing at???
All these months later, I still wonder…
dadsarmy
‘English’ bank Barclays, quietly got a bigger bail out than RBS and HBOS combined.
Marcia
Bit Stephen Kingish that at a club for pensioners
the 2014 noers are dying faster than the 2014 yessers!
Marcia, could that be because people who are optimistic live longer 🙂
Heart of Galloway @ 8.30 am
Excellent letter to the BBC. Please let us see their response when it arrives 🙂 (see, that’s me being optimistic 🙂 )
Jings! The hits keep coming for Gordon.
‘Nowhere man’ and now
‘Yesterdays man’ Both on you tube. 🙂
PS:
Subliminal or what? Picked up ‘The National’ and was passing the Butchers and without a second thought decided to go in and got a 0.5 Kg of mince.
Got in the car and saw the headline ‘GERS figures are mince’ 🙂
Funny old world.
Anyhoo!
It is an excellent read this morning with something for everybody
Liked the GERS thing and the Pensions from WGD.
I get it everyday of the week so decided to get a subscription offer. Starts 2nd Sept I save money and get that Bottle of Gin too. 🙂
Harsh Breeks.
And you will hopefully be very pleasantly surprised =)
Was Barclays bailout from Saudi and/or UAE based banks? Being in hoc to the Wahabbi gangsters is surely helpful.
Brown relies on Scots who voted ‘NO’ to conveniently forget that it was him, and those like him, who have placed ALL Scots in the position in which we currently find ourselves.
Irrespective of whether the ‘VOW’ was merely a Daily Record construct it was a calculated and late addition to the ‘No’ campaign that was endorsed by ALL of the Unionist political leaders….this fact was admitted by the Editor of DR recently as a tactic to sway the vote in favour of remaining in the UKOK…a last minute clutch of the UKOK straw at a time when it looked as if the ‘Yes’ vote was leading in the polls.
Many promises too were made by Brown in his Vow to the Scots should they vote ‘No’…promises that were based on the assumption that Labour would win the next GE and promises he knew would most definitely NOT be fulfilled if Cameron won….and most probably would also NOT be fulfilled by Labour either…..largely due to Brown no longer having any political influence as he no longer held any political position other than ex MP and failed PM.
The BT campaign was no different to GE campaigns in that many promises were made in order to win the vote…however the winning side will always finds a way to delay and then eventually drop the very things they pledged in their campaign …because the prize has been won so the need to fulfill is no longer deemed a necessity….of course it also helps to instill fear and to base that fear upon lies which, in the BT campaign, was a winning formula that ‘won’ over the voters who were not firmly rooted in either camp but could be swayed (conned) into making a decision based upon those fears and lies that were promoted as facts.
The fact is Brown’s now constant annoying and predictable interventions conveniently deflect away from his past broken promises…only to regurgitate the same promises to keep Scotland tied to his beloved UKOK , the media comply because he is the ‘concerned’ outsider,the self crowned Union champion, who perhaps may still be able to con naive voters in Scotland into believing he is still a force to be reckoned with, within UKOK politics, that can deliver change……..however those of us who are less gullible know he has absolutely NO ability or power to deliver either change or influence policies in either Scotland or WM.
The truth is that currently neither the Labour leadership or Conservative leadership will endorse anything that Brown suggests and to expect the public to believe that Brown is in any position to influence and implement constitutional change is an insult to the credibility of an already sceptical minded electorate.
Politics in UKOK is indeed broken and a spent force for Scotland and Gordon Brown is complicit in ensuring Scotland has had to suffer the consequences of this failed WM system….a system that exists not to serve Scots but to serve those politicians who seek only to serve themselves within Brown’s beloved UKOK WM.
The time has come for us to say to Gordon Brown ” Enough already”…” You have had your say..you didn’t follow through..you speak , not for all Scots, you only speak for those Scots who in the past , and you hope, in the future will agree and comply with your UKOK vision…a UKOK vision that has resulted in taking us Scots out of a Union that we did NOT want to be taken out of while insisting we Scots remain in a Union that most of us do NOT want to remain in.
Your UKOK vision was and still is dead and is based on lies and broken promises and no amount of deflection by you or other Unionist politicians will resuscitate it. You blame the SNP and those who support Independence for the current instability within your beloved UKOK but tis your, and other Unionists, obsession with the UKOK that has ensured the perfect storm for this current right wing government to have been installed into power…you, Gordon Brown, helped clear the way for them to fulfill their UKOK vision.
A UKOK vision which never considered Scotland’s needs or indeed appreciated or welcomed it’s input into UKOK politics.There is no ‘us’ in the UKOK there is only ‘They’ ( the majority within UKOK) who hold the power and for you to deny this and promote a false union of equals is probably one of the most obscene and corrupt positions to be promoted by a former politician and so called proud Scot but….
I think that if you seriously believe that Now is the time to resurrect another attempt to convince (con) Scots to pledge their allegiance to remain within the Union, at a time when Scots are clearly being ignored and forced to adopt a predominantly English Brexit policy to leave the EU, then I like many will only be convinced that I was correct in thinking that you are indeed a man no different from those who have orchestrated and implemented Brexit itself….I think you will find that you are now, as you were always,only in a position of preaching to the already UKOK converted….that is those who are so blind they will NOT see any other future for Scotland other than within your failed UKOK…which you yourself must take some liability for in helping to aid it’s survival as a flawed and unworkable concept for Scotland.
Oh and BTW your rapidly deflating face does not inspire joy or hope but merely reflects or rather mirrors the downward sad and sorry spiral that your most precious and beloved declining UKOK is now chaotically descending into….only a demented fanatic would insist that Scotland too must choose to go the same way as UKOK….that’s YOU Gordon Brown”.
Next time Brown does another of his interventions he should do a tap dancing version. It’ll be just as politically meaningless but would provide some entertainment.
He’s either got the memory of a goldfish, or he thinks we have.
Ghillie says:
27 August, 2019 at 11:09 am
Harsh Breeks.
And you will hopefully be very pleasantly surprised =)
That’s just it Ghillie, I hope so too, absolutely nothing would make me happier. But all these mixed signals and enigmatic kite flying is pig in a poke stuff, and I’m heartily sick of it.
Brown Campbell Blair and Straw etc should all be in jail for mass murder not wheeled out by a corrupt media to tell more lies well I would like to remind them that one day we all have a judge to face with no hiding place and you can join Thatcher in hell where you belong and they still have the nerve to go to church and the clergy still allow them in ???
Manandboy, nah I think of two things on Broom, urine and fire!
Gerry Parker says:
Indeed. This is a recurring theme on the political landscape these days.
Pundits, politicians, and press plonkers …. do they really believe the hypocritical illogical inaccurate deceitful divisive bollocks they spout … or do they believe voters have poor understanding of the issues and no memories?
So much discourse seems to revolve around that puzzle.
Certainly, we know the BritNat/EngNat media have done a good job of keeping a lot of voters ignorant, confused, and/or simply turned off. When politicians plan to be deceitful, that setting certainly assists them. So, yes, Brown is almost certainly relying on voter gullibility.
Also, though, do they themselves actually believe some of the guff they come away with. It certainly looks like some Brexiteers are seriously deluded. Brown on federalism? He probably sees himself as influencial and that Labour has a future. He will ignore all the shortcomings and cockups of both himself and his party. Selective amnesia! He probably does believe the UK can be restructured to extend its shelf live. Yes, deluded too.
I’ve almost run out of adjectives to describe “tractors” like Brown.
Today’s word is “Scum”. [Not very new, I know, but what the hell…]
Dr Jim says:
27 August, 2019 at 10:12 am
Call Kaye:
Should Scottish schoolchidren all be getting Ipads
Unionists phone in and say Naw!
Are these the same Yoons that screech and squawk continuously about IT connectivity and the so-called failure of the Scottish Government and screech and squawk even louder about the Scottish Government doing something about it, despite knowing fine well that telecommunications is reserved? And now screech and squawk more when the Scottish Government does something designed to improve the IT skills and IT access for
of all Scottish children.
Yoons be funny.
Willie says:
27 August, 2019 at 8:27 am
Ah Prudence Brown the man who told us he’d ended boom and bust.
And what of Mr Brown of the ” “vow” .
The guy is a failed chancellor, failed PM.
He and his prudent stewardship facilitated the banking crash. And then he sold the UKs gold off cheap. He ruined private pensions and then moving on the Ego became Britain’s worst PM.
Does anyone believe a word that comes out of this guy’s mouth.
Better Together now Gordon – eh what !
Don’t forget his willing participation as the banker who financed Blair’s illegal and murderous military campaign in Iraq.
They call him Mr Bombastic…
Apos if this has already been posted – link to the Scottish Constitution wiki. For constitution geeks:
http://wiki.scottishconstitution.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
mike cassidy
I thought at the time he meant more pensioners in 2014 voted No, so when they pop off they are not being replaced by new younger voters to the electoral register in the same proportions. Thank goodness. I shan’t go around with anthrax sandwiches or bitter almond crisps at the club.
Brown’s motivation can only be what people will think of him when he’s gone. His legacy!
My message to him:
Gordon son – nobody is going to think of you when you are gone, except whoever is competing for your ill gotten gains. You are a non-entity. An inveterate liar with a deluded sense of your own importance. Use the time you have left to find some peace rather than making yourself even more of an arse. Think of all those children who have been maimed, traumatised or killed as a result of your actions. Pray for forgiveness if that is your wont and slope off into obscurity where you belong.
I’m not meaning to be repetitive….. but I will be.
The crowdfunder to bring in another 6000 Original Yes flags, 3000 EU Saltires, 1500 Yes Car flags and 1500 sets of Yes wing mirror covers, otherwise known as
https://www.gofundme.com/f/the-return-of-10000-flags-for-yes
is currently sitting at 15% of it’s required total.
We need to be at least 70% funded by the end of next week so that the completed order can be paid and shipped in time to arrive and clear customs before a No Deal Brexit.
A lot of people will be getting paid over these next few days.
Please donate what you can so we can get another small, but important part of the jigsaw in place before #indyref2
Thanks to everyone who has supported us so far either financially or by sharing.
Don’t know why the Shetland Tory candidate is being promoted as the ‘Ruth Davidson’ candidate….after all we all know her ‘winning’ record in the Tory party when SHE endorses a candidate…like Sajid Javid…Michael Gove…Jeremy Hunt….Lol
Also re Alex Cole -attention seeking – Hamilton’s tweet yesterday…he does this to troll SNP peeps in order to gain (undeserved) attention because him being a Lib Dem he has no actual original strategy or vision to promote as to why peeps should vote for Lib Dem in the Shetlands….other than…you’ve always done it so why not continue…..this guy is so arrogant that he thinks even negative press is better than none…with him being such a political lightweight his cloak of invisibility is guaranteed….so, to be visible, he tweets or makes snidey remarks …while being left with no credibility….not that he cares with his ego.
A politician ( minor one) who will not be remembered ( at all) as having had an illustrious career but if remembered ( at all) will only be thought of as one of those politicians who were so desperate to be significant he had to resort to constant back biting to highlight his presence..but sadly for him…this will only justify the accusation of his insignificance as a politician of any worth or merit…and one undeserving of representing constituents.
To be fair…he is not unique in this but in an independent Scotland one would like to think we could eliminate the non entities that currently sit within our parliament and seem more focused on personality than politics…egotists do not care how they achieve recognition their vanity only seeks that they be recognised …..if you elect duds then ultimately what you get is someone who behaves like double barreled Hamilton…he fits perfectly into the Lib Dem mould like Swinson, Carmichael, Jardine,Bruce and wee Edna Rennie….but perhaps we on here sometimes underestimate other voters because if WE see this as representing unacceptable behaviour then perhaps we are not alone in our thinking……Brexit has made a lot more people intolerant of ‘nasty’ style politics…so let Alex continue because it is more to his and his party’s detriment and more to our gain…#SNPGAIN….Lol
How now Brown Vow?
© Someone else
Of course BritNats claim the Vow was delivered! The people of Scotland will pass judgement on that.
Marcia
It’s not actually strange that No vote pensioners die off quicker than Yes vote pensioners.
Recent scientific studies showed that optimists on average live up to five years longer than pessimists, and I think we, the Yes voters, are nothing if not optimists.
@ galamcennalath @ 1.17pm
Yep, galamcennalath, that © Someone else was ‘Mac’.
The “How now Brown Vow” was, I think, what he added onto a comments section of some rag …it was wonderful…..as to rest of your comment…exactly.
I do wonder when they will give up on Brown.
When they work out how to reanimate John Smith.
He’ll be horribly disappointed in his daughter I suspect, who wants Scotland driven into the sea.
Will the people of Shetland want to step up to the table for the party standing up for Scotland and have their voices heard at the top table. Or will they stick with Willie Rennie’s moaning minnies, serial liar and fantasist’s (you know who I mean) of the LibDem’s, let’s see what their choice is.
Abulhacker says:
27 August, 2019 at 8:36 am
Quote from National article on Shetland election.
“Teams were out all over Shetland, braving the wind and rain every day for Tom Wills, all chapping doors and working hard to put Shetland at the heart of Holyrood.”
What has happened to the idea of Shetland enjoying a Faroese status in an independent Scotland?
Shetland truly at the heart of Shetland.
Hjatland í midju Hjatlands as ancient Shetlanders might have said before their culture was wiped out by predatory Scottish mainland settlers centuries ago.
What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as the Inglis say
— sorry to deflate your britnastiness but recent DNA profiling shows the majority of Shetlanders and for that matter Orkney have high % of Pictish/ Scots/ Celtic blood. Of course there would be nordic influences. I mean puir old anglo land is a mixture of european and other folk as well.
I see the Tories are still punting the Ruth Davidson Party illusion in Shetland. She has been in hiding for so long I’ve forgotten what she looks like, is this her?
https://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2018/12/23/41965/jim_davidson_reported_for_hate_speech
@ bobajock says @ 27 August, 2019 at 1:54 pm
“I do wonder when they will give up on Brown”
Yep bobajock, they like to think of him as one of the ‘big beasts’…won’t be long before they realise he is more of a ‘beast of burden’…..Hee Haw…Hee Haw..mind you he’s not the only burden the unionists have to carry….Lol
#DonkeyKongBrown
@Don McKillop says: 27 August, 2019 at 7:07 am:
” … Sorry Brian it is a Beatle’s track from their Album Rubber Soul. I think it is actually the fourth song and it is also a Lennon/McCartney composition.”</I?
"Nowhere Man", was featured in the film, "Yellow Submarine", and like everything else they did it was crap.
@Robert Louis says: 27 August, 2019 at 7:09 am:
” … The man is just an embarresssing joke. He still thinks its 2014, poor chap. Wish they’d get him some help.”
They did get him some help, Robert Louis, It is called the SMSM.
What more help could he expect?
@Macart says: 27 August, 2019 at 8:53 am:
” … Yes. Yes we have heard that one before.
Mr Brown is either disingenuous, delusional or stupid. People can make their own minds up on which description fits best.”
Err! Excuse me Macart, but am I allowed to make my mind up that the answer is, “All of the above”?
Hang in there Breeks 🙂
Off Topic. VIDEO.
This opinion on Scotland and the GERS figures appeared on Twitter today and is now on YouTube.
TITLED:
‘The GERS deficit: Scotland CAN manage its finances’.
It’s a 4 minute speak to camera piece by Robert Somynne,a journalist in Scotland.
Some readers of Wings may find Mr Somynne’s opinion interesting and enlightening.
Worthy of sharing it around?
https://tinyurl.com/y3kxg4wq
BTW did anyone catch Trump saying this at G7 press conference :
” You know I ask Boris, where’s England? What’s happening with England?
They don’t use it too much anymore. We talked about it – it was very interesting ”
Peeps are interpreting this as Trump not knowing difference between UK and England.
However…I think this is so straight out of Farage’s playbook…this is the SECOND time I have heard Trump say this….why?…because this plays straight into the Brexit base vote in England…the ones who support full English No Deal Brexit & Trump’s MAGA…Farage is behind this…we are being played….the crazy thing is…that statement above is from a man whose mother came from Scotland…so why the f**K is he asking what’s ‘happening’ with England …they don’t use it anymore…who is ‘THEY’?
Appreciate we are not dealing with the full sandwich here in respect to Trump but this is a DELIBERATE statement not just an Idiot abroad’s random observation..remember John Redwood in HOC saying ” Who speaks for England “?…something is brewing and has been for a long time…..and wtf did Boris say in relation to ” Talked about it”….did he, Bojo, not mention the awesome foursome aka UKOK….like f**k he did…more like ‘ Don’t worry old chap that’s going to be sorted ‘.
Jeeso…conspiracies and plots everywhere….and yet we Scots want something different Huh….are we MAD ?
@Clapper57
One of the mistakes the left and centrists are 99% of the time making – assuming that Trump talks nonsense all the time and taking the piss out of him for it.
The man says things for reaction and his political opponents fall for it every time.
Whether you believe Trump is an idiot or not is besides the point – he has the money and power to have some real brains advising him (Steve Bannon for instance, who was pivotal in getting him elected). Underestimate that at your own cost.
@Joe says: 27 August, 2019 at 9:44 am:
” … It takes Scots more than burned fingers to wake up. It takes near total immolation.”
How would you know what most Scots do, think or even dream about, Joe?
@ Joe @ 3.02PM
Hi Joe, I agree totally with what you said re it’s ‘who’ advises him…or rather ‘controls’ him.
The wheels of the bus are NOT being driven by Trump but by THOSE who are behind him…he is merely the ‘front’…it’s the ones in the background we should be worried about….what’s that saying about ‘never underestimate your enemy’ should also be ‘know who the REAL enemy is’..read Chomsky….Trump is the distraction …take away his autocue…then it becomes painfully obvious he is but a puppet…..aka a Muppet….Lol
Follow the money….always follow the money.
People are being really unfair on poor Mr Brown. Him + Tone + W’s invasion of Iraq only resulted in 200 000+ children’s deaths. He has every right to speak with authority and sneering contempt on moral issues.
Now, if he was Pol Pot it would be a different story. That guy was *disgusting*.
Off topic but Id like to share probably the single most important observation for politics that ive ever come across.
How to do you know a party/politician is too far left or right? At what point have they stepped over the line?
For the right its simple. As soon as a politician makes any kind of reference to religious, ethnic, racial or any other superiority for their own group. Its childs play. We have known how to see that since we were kids.
Not so obvious for the left however. But its just as important historically. 10’s of millions of dead under leftist governments is proof that the left can and do go too far with the same catastrophic bloody consequences as the right. Whether you want to call it ‘true socialism’ or not these things happened.
That red line for the left is drawn at writing laws that force equality of outcome. Thats obviously different from equality of opportunity – we all want kids to have education, food, healthy environment etc and that produces a much healthier society than otherwise. This is what a healthy left wing group promotes.
The road to catastrophe begins when the equity doctrine starts to demand equal outcomes for different people. You either have freedom of choice or you have equality of outcome in a society – you cant have both. The type of legislative power people of a country must hand the state to even BEGIN to equalise outcomes across individuals is more than any state should have.
Just as dangerous is the propaganda used to get people to accept such drives for ‘equity, inclusion and fairness’. It all hinges on bogus victim/oppressor narratives. Group A is oppressing you, and has done for years so give us more legal and political powers and we will make it right. You oppose it? Then clearly you are in league with the oppressors and should be quiet.
Women who want their own spaces are currently on the wrong side of that equation. Gender balanced cabinets. The narrative that a wage gap is purely down to sexism etc.
The murder, oppression and economic catastrophe caused by governments stepping over that line is actually unimaginable. The type of people this type of thinking draws to it are the last people you want in a governing role.
As soon as a government steps over that line the process of replacing them must be started. Just as if you had a government claiming racial superiority.
I originally heard this from the Psychologist Jordan B. Peterson (another fighter against the gender B.S in Canada) and I find it a very useful yard stick for measuring politicians.
@Robert Peffers
Because I was born in Scotland and lived for 26 years of my life there. My family are Scottish (all Scottish nationalists). I am also on my way back there.
That’s why.
@mike cassidy says:27 August, 2019 at 11:01 am:
… Marcia
Bit Stephen Kingish that at a club for pensioners
the 2014 noers are dying faster than the 2014 yessers!”
Could actually be scientifically correct, Mike. Just yesterday I read a report that it has been scientifically proven that optimists, on average, have a longer lifespan than pessimists.
Says it all really.
Well, well. well yet more nonsense promises from Slabour the small problem with Browns plan! We will have been dragged out of the E.U. Is Brown really such a idiot or is he doing it deliberately?
@ Mike Cassidy @ 11.01am & Robert Peffers 3.27pm
Hi Mike/Robert, would that be the ‘Misery’ Stephen Kingish ?..Lol
jfngw @ 09:42,
Oh, that’s my quote of the day (week, even)!
And so definitively apposite.
Former Bucks Fizz “star” standing for brexit party.
Bucks fizz reissue “Land of make believe”.
Gordon Broon on backing vocals.
@Joe says:27 August, 2019 at 3:26 pm:
” … Because I was born in Scotland and lived for 26 years of my life there. My family are Scottish (all Scottish nationalists). I am also on my way back there.
That’s why.”
Joe, Gordon Brown was born in Kirkcaldy of Scottish parents and has lived most of his life in Scotland and he he doesn’t have a clue as to how most Scots thing. Kaye, (wi wan e’e), is also Scottish and lived most of her life in Scotland – have you listened to the utter rubbish she broadcasts?
Your stated credentials do not mean a thing.
Radio waves will kill us all, television will blind our kids, mobile phones will give us brain cancer, now 5G will fill the air with death rays
Notice the familiarity and the people who complain about this stuff are the same people who employ starvation and poverty as a political choice of control
If the SNP want’s it, it must be bad
Lately, I cannot help but actually feeling sorry for the man.
I have now arrived at the conclusion that the only rational explanation for an ex PM with a decent wealth to repeatedly putting himself through these continuous self-flagellation exercises of humiliation, ridicule, character destruction, becoming the laughing stock tool that is deflect attention from the tories, completely trashing any trace of credibility and good reputation he may have had left and frankly sheer embarrassment, is that he does not have any choice.
And why would he not have a choice?
One possible scenario is that he might have been blackmailed.
So the real question for me here is what can possibly Mr Brown have got to hide that makes worthwhile to put himself through these humiliating and self-destroying interventions?
Though it’s well-travelled ground for most on here, it’s worth reiterating for the benefit of any visitors that not only did Broon’s previous warm assurances melt away to nothing as soon as the indy vote was delivered, in the ensuing Smith Commission discussions, far more than any of the other Bitter Together pals, his own party actively connived to prevent virtually any further substantive transfer of autonomy. An unforgettable betrayal of our clear demand for far more than the status-quo-ante, as promised.
So by their own dastardly deeds, even NorthBritLab clearly didn’t believe a word of what he pontificated. So why on earh should we? And least of all now, with the most English Nationalist government ever in London.
If the man had even an ounce of self-awareness, he would realise that every word he utters only diminishes his reputation further. And the only way it could be rescued would be if he finally escaped his little partisan bubble, confronted harsh reality and started telling something recognisable as the truth. And the whole truth.
Poor auld Broon.
Someone should take him gently by the arm and lead him back to the day-room for a cup of tea and a biscuit. If Countdown is on he should be happy for a while – he seems to think he’s good with numbers.
Don’t forget to go via the bathroom – accidents do happen if you’re frail.
Robert at 4.07pm
According to Wikipedia Gordon Brown was born in Giffnock!
@Maria F
Dunblane for one
@Maria F –
Aye, someone’s got him by the short ‘n curlies.
It must be like that scene from Godfather 3 in his kitchen every other week: ‘Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!’
So the real question for me here is what can possibly Mr Brown have got to hide that makes worthwhile to put himself through these humiliating and self-destroying interventions?
As I’ve said before. He used to get a weekly blow dry in a salon down the bottom end of GW Rd.
That’ll do for starters.
As near to Federalism with a wonderful new collaborative future for Scotland
Then his party voted against every proposal in the Smith Commission to make sure that couldn’t happen
And I bet if any of these newspapers ever put that to him he’d find a way to blame the SNP for it
All that’s missing from Brown is the butlers uniform and standing behind his Massa at the dinner table
Y’all knows what ah is sayin, Laud ahmighty Mm Mm Mm!
https://wingsoverscotland.com/remember-when-this-happened/#comment-2482465
Agree with you about him being blackmailed, but feeling sorry for him, no chance. This was the same guy who scared the shit oot our auld people about naw getting their pension. I hate the bastard.
I remember Gordon Brown at Edinburgh University and he led the quaintly named Broad Left group in his quest for election to Rector. He was just a big bully and to my eternal shame I voted for him.
Robert J. Sutherland at 4:44 pm
Re. Labour wif da ill behaviour…
Here’s a link to article on caltonjock about Smith Commission.
It includes a graphic showing how Labour, more than other parties, were against the transfer of certain powers to Holyrood control.
https://caltonjock.com/2019/05/10/an-analysis-of-the-2014-smith-commission-report-provides-irrefutable-confirmation-that-scots-are-sold-short-by-the-incorrectly-titled-scottish-unionist-msps/
I wonder if most of our pensioners know the part played by Gordon Brown in their pensions shrinking?
Do they know it was him who started ‘robbing’ the pension fund?
If not, it’s a message we need to get out there
Breeks @ 10:45,
I do tend to share that sinking feeling, I must amit, and it isn’t helped by the recent umbilical connection of “no-deal” with Brexit, as if some other kind of Brexit arrived-at as a last-minute HoC compromise would somehow be just fine. Duh.
For those who are committed supporters of the SNP, it’s easy, they can just continue untroubled (at least outwardly) as an article of faith. Which does make for a much easier life amid all this botheration. The rest of us though need something more concrete to hold onto. And that isn’t really helped, as you also observed, by stirring pronouncements from Ian Blackford that don’t seem to be backed-up by anything obviously concrete. I just wish that the stalwarts could appreciate that uneasy feeling a little more in their turn.
However, I suggest that what we are observing here (and from the outside, as it were) is a rather subtle and unavoidable game of parliamentary poker, in which an early high bid will be called out and fail. This manoevering may seem glacial from where we are standing, but that just can’t be helped. Each possible move has to seen off, because otherwise it can rear up later and trip you up. We are likely going to have a UKGE to get through, for example, like it or not. (But there may be much to like in the result, despite the unwanted distraction.) The desired end result is to demonstrate conclusively to every non-partisan voter in Scotland that there is no viable alternative except independence. and currently there are still people to be won over.
It’s not easy to endure, and it certainly isn’t helped by the different voices coming out of the SNP (which is a very broad church, don’t forget, both politically and strategically), some urging caution and others hinting at imminent drastic action.
So, much though we see time draining away so unsettlingly fast and apparently fruitlessly, we still have to give the SG/SNP due credit for having to play a very difficult hand to a timetable that is not particularly of their own choosing. (Just another unwanted consequence in being chained to another polity.)
These are hard times, and we just have to hang on and persevere. This is a UK-wide political and constitutional tornado we are sitting in, and I’m sure people in time will look back and wonder incomprehensively how the UK could have stumbled so blindly into such a self-imposed disaster of truly epic proportions, but we are where we are, and having a steady and reliable hand on the tiller amid all the confusions of the storm could ultimately prove to be the necessary winning move.
OT
Barrack Obama walked into North Korea and shook hands with his arch enemy, creating a dialogue to scale back from a potential for conflict.
BO then played hard ball with the Chinese, but is now on the road to averting a trade war from escalating into a shooting war.
Rumours now abound that Our Man Barrack is going to meet with the Iranian Leader – to create another dialogue which may appease Israel and stop the development of a dangerous nuclear programme while creating trade deals and maybe, maybe even lift a few sanctions in return.
And lets not forget Syria, where he played along with the Hawks and the blood thirsty Press, before eventually telling them to stand the F down.
Barrack even wants Russia to come back into the fold that we used to refer to as the G8 – further de-escalating tensions around the globe
Give this man a Nobel Peace Prize already……eh, hold on…
Trump could cure cancer tomorrow and all the brainwashed fuckwits of the World would still not be satisfied – so why try
And to think BO got a NPP while overseeing the most technological advances to the US nuclear armament since the Cold War. But then that’s, well, normal and to be expected.
But then….maybe I’m just racist…..like Trump.
By definition, Colonialism is totally anti-democratic.
In these last days of the so-called British Empire, democracy in the UK is really just a political blow-up doll with no clothes on. I’m sure you can all work out the rest.
Breeks@10.45am.
Forgive me, I bow to your pedantry. Here’s my original two-part question and my own belief:
“Do you trust Nicola Sturgeon to deliver Breeks? That the SG has ALREADY canvassed EU support for Scottish membership? I do.”
You say you replied “no” but I can neither recall nor find any such reply. Am I wrong?
Meanwhile in Wales:
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2019/08/27/the-movement-for-welsh-independence-is-gathering-momentum/
@Doug and Welsh Sion
‘mon the bog snorkellers!
Ah the glorious British Empire
read and weep
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inglorious-Empire-What-British-India/dp/0141987146/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3AUHWYT09XS65&keywords=shashi+tharoor+inglorious+empire+what+the+british+did+to+india&qid=1566928751&s=books&sprefix=shashi+Tharoor%2Cstripbooks%2C598&sr=1-1
27 August, 2019 at 5:11 pm: Dakk said:
“So the real question for me here is what can Mr Brown have to hide that makes it worthwhile to put himself through these humiliating and self-destroying interventions?”
Dunblane Primary School Massacre perhaps?
Heart of Galloway asks:
“Do you trust Nicola Sturgeon to deliver Breeks? ”
I’m sure she is equipped to deliver all kinds of things.
tinyurl.com/snpwatch
Not sure what happened to that link @7:44
but if you highlight it then right-click … you can left-click on the “go to” option.
Maria F at 4.40 and dakk at 5.11
Very good questions.
wullie
This might interest you..
//tinyurl.com/Imperialist-scumbags
O/T:
We hear a lot about USA chlorinated chickens and USA beef pumped full of hormones and USA seeds genetically modified. What though of USA eggs banned by the EU?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo3PDWeHb58
Quite a few posters here bring cryptic and alluding to a connection between Gordosausus and the Dunblane massacre.
Anyone care to expand? I enjoy a good conspiracy theory.
Gordosaurus
@Fergus Green
If the Labour party buried the findings of an inquiry for a hundred years speaks for itself!
@Robert Peffers
So even someone who has lived in Scotland their entire life can have their opinion dismissed as being ‘not in touch with the Scottish people’?
How do you decide that? Whats the criteria?
Oh, I know. Their opinion differs from yours.
Now do you see why I fear people like you getting any sort of government power? No wonder you love the new SNP and the EU.
Fergus@8:45…
Google is (sometimes) your friend. Don’t expect responses on here – folk are no that daft!
Last month, Dr Kirsty Hughes writing for the think tank Scottish Centre on European Relations posted a very interesting article, this is but a small part:
Brexit, the UK and Scottish Independence: Heading Towards a Split?
But all this is not just a Scottish-UK debate. If an independent Scotland aims to be in the European Union, while the rest of the UK (rUK) potentially leaves, there are various ramifications for key issues in the independence debate. A no deal Brexit not only means chaos and a range of economic, social and political impacts, it also means hard borders between the UK and EU, including in Ireland…
So an independent Scotland in the EU – in the face of Brexit – will mean there are some tough debates to be had about the nature of border checks at the English-Scottish border (and about the dynamic economic effects of EU membership in that scenario). This is not, however, the harder independence line that Gordon Brown recently claimed it to be. This is, rather, a direct impact of Brexit (there currently being no separate UK rather than EU customs union or single market).
Currency also comes in here. While polls suggest Scottish voters prefer staying with the pound sterling in the short term or longer, the SNP’s policy is now to have a separate Scottish currency as soon as possible (though the Growth Commission suggests ‘soon’ could be in 10 years time). But keeping the pound for an indeterminate period, while the UK leaves the EU, may prove a stumbling block for Scottish EU accession…
How the independence debate will develop, and how support for independence will change, as, when and if Brexit actually happens, and as issues like borders and currency and their link to EU membership become clearer, is for now an open question. A no deal Brexit – and the ensuing chaos it would provoke – would surely, as the polls above suggest, strengthen support for independence but border concerns would also be trickier to assuage. How rapidly opinion changes, in a no deal scenario, would then also be likely to impact on political choices made by the Scottish government.
It’s a long article but the whole thing is well worth a read. One thing stands out for me though and that is to go into an Independence campaign with Brexit as yet unresolved would be a fools errand. There are justifiable reasons for Nicola Sturgeon biding her time. She wants to win it.
https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-11728
@ahundredthidiot
Very good post.
I actually feel like im in an alternate reality with the level of brainwashing people have had. People who lived through the last Scottish Independence referendum. People who KNOW how utterly false the MSM are.
I have sat in groups with people who all pat themselves on the back with their criticisms of trump. ‘Oh look, I think Trump is stupid and racist, arent I a good liberal fuckwit’
The funny thing is – its not even valid criticism. Its bullshit a 12 year old should find beneath them.
So on the one hand the past 4 U.S presidents have started wars that have displaced and killed millions (depleted uranium shells still causing cancer and birth defects in areas of the world including Europe), sold their country out to the Chinese (democrats) or the oil cartel (republicans), brought the world close to a shooting war with Russia, oversaw the managed decline of their economy, visited a pedophile billionaires island stocked with under age girls 25 times on record (Clinton), helped run massive amount of drugs into the U.S (Bush senior)….it goes on.
Yet Trump is ‘worse than hitler’ because he’s not very likable and says some things on twitter that are nasty. ( he has done worse, such as aid the Saudis along with our Tory pals in their genocide of the Houthi’s in Yemen but the liberal retards never seem to mention that).
Its…insane…and anyone that falls into this category is an intellectual fucking midget with a knowledge of recent politics and world events that is deeply shameful. That includes many pro indy people ive seen.
Trump is an arse. But some perspective might be handy.
TIME IS SHORT
In about an hour, in Titanic time, the good ship Brittania is about to kiss the iceberg. Sadly, most of the passengers are asleep, resting secure in the belief that everything is alright. They don’t know the danger.
I suspect that many people in the UK, sincerely, but mistakenly, believe that ‘everything is going to be ‘alright”. However, Dominic Cummings and his Vote Leave team in 10 Downing Street are, meanwhile, plotting something completely different.
Here in Scotland the realisation is very slowly dawning, that under the Johnson Government, life in a post Brexit Union is going to be very bad indeed. And then some. And that it is going to happen. There’s not going to be a last minute change of heart about leaving the EU.
There isn’t much time left.
Independence is no longer an option, even for deluded or procrastinating No voters.
The iceberg is closer than you think.
Eh, what’s that funny scraping noise?
Clearly much has been hidden concerning the Dunblane Massacre.
Since the object is to keep aspects secret, it would seem unlikely that information could be used to blackmail anyone because that would mean threatening to release something. And that defeats the whole purpose of the alleged institutional secrecy.
It doesn’t take much googling to find some horrendous accusations. Most of it is probably mischief making. Or, some may be intentional smoke and mirrors.
Dan @ 6.48pm.
Doug @ 6.30 pm.
Come on over – you’d be more than welcome! And any other Scottish pro-indy friends are welcome, too.
7 September 2019
Merthyr Tudful
https://www.yes.cymru/auob
Just watched bbc jocklands James shit for brains interview Ian Blackford re the meeting today of all parties against no deal , James asked Ian if there was any deal acceptable to the SNP SG , Ian prevaricated and just continued to refer to the clusterfcuk boris was making
As Breeks and others have referred to , when was the mandate given to the SNP SG to keep Scotland in the EU diluted to a soft brexshit
More save the english voters from the lunacy they voted for rather than reaffirm the sovereignty of Scots to refuse to be bullied
Fergus Green says:
27 August, 2019 at 8:45 pm
Quite a few posters here bring cryptic and alluding to a connection between Gordosausus and the Dunblane massacre.
I don’t think any discussion on the Dunblane massacre should be dealt with in any light handed way Fergus.
It’ is still too raw for Scotland. Maybe for some a bit of mischief. More likely a diversion tactic.
What with GERS getting the usual publicity from the MSM along with the Scottish goverment Growth Commission report the SNP needs to really up the economic pro’s of independence .
Westminster and it’s machine are already fighting Indy 2 while we appear to be doing nothing. Something doesn’t feel right.
Thepnr @ 9.07
If it’s the same article,Alex,one other thing stood out to me.
Three times she mentions ” how the UK oil and gas would be divided up during the Independence negotiation “!!!
She didn’t seem to grasp that this is a Scottish resource,why on earth would it be on the table? And it bloody well better not be!
Twat the hunter
Doing the tories work I see. Intentional or just being myopic.
Look for the long game.
@Liz g
Not the same article then Liz, no mention of oil and gas whatsoever. You might like to read it LOL
Chalk on a blackboard. lol
In-D-Car Gordon Ross 27.8.19 – A time of global chaos is coming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnfJIVzYKu8
Hi manandboy at 9:13 pm.
You mentioned,
“I suspect that many people in the UK, sincerely, but mistakenly, believe that ‘everything is going to be ‘alright”.”
I’ve linked to this video a number of times in the past few months. Here it is again…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72TopWbXJg
NOTHING OUTWEIGHS THE SUPREME ADVANTAGE OF BEING INDEPENDENT
The Scottish electorate have been bombarded daily by Westminster’s State Media propaganda machine, and the message is always the same – INDEPENDENCE ISN’T WORTH IT.
Sometimes the message is blunt, but often it is subtle, citing this that or the other ‘reason’ why Independence will be very difficult, very awkward, and very very expensive. If it’s not the currency, it’s the border ; if its not trade with England, its the Monarchy. And on and on it goes. No mention of England’s Independence, or any of the other 190 countries in the world, for whom Independence is not negotiable at any price.
And that’s the point. Scotland’s Independence is NOT NEGOTIABLE, except in English propaganda and for Gordon Brown, failed Chancellor and failed Prime Minister. Whatever difficulty lies ahead for Scotland, none can even remotely outweigh the supreme advantage of being Independent, as every country will testify, starting with England, which offers making their own decisions and ‘taking back control’ as being among the most important reasons for leaving the EU, no matter the cost.
But of course in England’s eyes, none of this applies to a Colony, or to a ‘possession, which is how they see Scotland.
Think Tanks tend not to mention any of these points.
Thepnr @ 9.41
I certainly will now Alex… The one I read I think was linked to from the Revs Twitter a few days back,but as usual my memory is like a sieve.
It looks like we’re being spoiled with articles … That’s new!
galamcennalath says:
27 August, 2019 at 9:15 pm
“Clearly much has been hidden concerning the Dunblane Massacre”
Indeed, and the question is why.
“Since the object is to keep aspects secret, it would seem unlikely that information could be used to blackmail anyone because that would mean threatening to release something”
It would only be unlikely and counterproductive if those using the information to blackmail others could be affected by what the information would reveal too. But who hid the documents and put the 100 year ban? Was that the tories or labour? Who is more likely to have been protected by a labour gov hiding those documents, senior labour individuals under whose watch the censoring of those documents was implemented or rather tory individuals that were in the opposition and were after their jobs?
Can the current government if it so chooses exercise its authority and power to revert the 100 year ban and release the said documents to the public?
What could be more effective for a tory government in desperate need of a boost or simply some deflection from their own mess than using such power and authority to blackmail some potential old labour individuals into acting as their puppets? Wouldn’t that explain why senior labour figures constantly keep coming out of the woodwork to do the dirty work of the tories and rescue them at the precise moments when the tories are at their lowest? Couldn’t that explain why the Blairites don’t want Corbyn any near to n10? When you think about it, it actually makes an awful lot of sense, particularly when you look at the timings of the “interventions” and to the fact that labour doesn’t seem to act as an opposition at all.
“It doesn’t take much googling to find some horrendous accusations. Most of it is probably mischief making. Or, some may be intentional smoke and mirrors”
Or it could be simply a disguised form of blackmail to keep certain minds focused of what could become. Who knows. An study of the timings of these articles/comments about Dunblane that pop up every now and again (for instance https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-46721297) and the timings and content of the “interventions” of these old wigs may throw some light in the matter (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46913942).
Brian Doonthetoon: Thanks Brian, I hadn’t seen that video, and while I wasn’t at all impressed by it, the message is clear – in Britain everything will be alright. As if.
Propaganda is without a doubt the principal weapon protecting the English Establishment.
When the idea that The Titanic was unsinkable was put out, it was in the same vein, a ‘guarantee’ almost, but it only served to lull the public into a false sense of security.
As then, so also now. Some people will of course believe anything, particularly when they want to believe it to be true.
Who would buy a used vow from this man?
@Welsh Sion at 9:27 pm
Both times I’ve been to Wales I almost developed gills it rained so much.
Servicing for a rally team in the pishing rain was somewhat exciting. Well, as exciting as it can be in Sweet Lamb lying on your back with a stream of water flowing through your boilersuit whilst using a welder turned up to the max to weld the internals of a broken differential back together.
The rather intense apprehension of wondering if you were going to be electrocuted the moment you struck up the arc…
Unfortunately I cannae make Wales on September 7th as it clashes with “a public parade” up here.
https://twitter.com/PerthandKinross/status/1164559750857723904
Brown only ever makes speeches to invited audiences which are duly shouted from the rooftops by our wonderful unionist msm.
Is it too much to hope that some day he will be interviewed by a professional not one of our tame journos – the only one I can think of is Paxman.
Gordon Brown should be in jail following trial at the ICC.
He was the man who as Chancellor funded the UK Governments foreign policy decisions “to wage aggressive war to conquer nations and topple sovereign governments.”
The charge of “waging aggressive war to conquer nations and topple sovereign governments” was the cornerstone legal argument at The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg following WW2 for all the surviving senior members of The Third Reich.
UK Gov bringing forward their spending review urgently says big Auntie radio 5.
Auntie suggesting GE next step (before Christmas). 🙂
@call me dave
Next step will be another extension to Article 50 before any general election. Boris Bottles Brexit!
OT Netflix has a brilliant documentary/personal memoir of the coup in Brazil which imprisoned Lula and impeached Dilma Rouseff. Financed by agribusiness which is currently burning down the Amazon rain forest with permission of their man Bolsonaro, bought and paid for. America now owns their oil production.
A cautionary tale.
It’s not the sort of insight you’re likely to find on the BBC.
“The Edge of Democracy” directed by Petra Costa. If you have a Netflix subscription it is 2 hrs but worth it.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6016744/videoplayer/vi231652377?ref_=tt_ov_vi
Couldn’t happen here, of course.
The ‘Nowhere Man’ in The Yellow Submarine was called ‘Jeremy’
Kind of fits.
Once the dust settles and the MPs return from their holidays it will become obvious the arithmetic in parliament is worse for Johnson than it was for May. He really has no option but to risk it all on an election. The question is whether he will go before Halloween or attempt some sort of Brexit and then go for it. October 17th has been suggested. If this is the option he goes for then he will have to make a move soon.
@HandandShrimp
My money’s on that Johnson doesn’t get to make the choice of when an election is to be called. I believe parliament will make that choice for him. But mibbee that’s just me, and the opposition will need to get their act together to do so.
There’s no denying they have the numbers but do they have the wherewithal and the will to see it all the way through?
Thepnr says:
“A no deal Brexit not only means chaos and a range of economic, social and political impacts, it also means hard borders…”
While there is every likelyhood that the above much trumpeted tosh will turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
There was no inevitability, nor need for any of it.
Land borders exist only as lines on a map indicating where one jurisdiction ends and another begins, any physical manifestation beyond a road sign is laughably superfluous, THEY DO NOT PREVENT OR DETER THE MOVEMENT OF UNAUTHORISED PERSONS OR GOODS(unless we are talking coast to coast razor-wire, mine-fields and machine-gun posts. Ports and Airports already are “hard” borders between the EU and the rest of the world.
All that was/is required is an agreement on a timetable and the order of a staged transfer of powers from one Parliament to another. i.e. the approximate inverse of what happens when a new state joins the EU.
It pains me that our lot have enthusiastically embraced this self-destructive cage fight, where the only victors, however it pans out, will be as always, the casino-capitalists.
The disingenuousness of all concerned in this fiasco would be almost beyond belief, if it were not for the fact that they are all politicians and all with their own wildly varying agendas.
NONE OF WHICH IS A SMOOTH TRANSITION TO THE POSITION CLEARLY INDICATED BY THE U.K. ELECTORATE IN A DEMOCRATIC PLEBISCITE.
The damage the SNP have been doing to the credibility of future referenda and the confidence the electorate will have to embark on the dissolution of that other Union is difficult to gauge.
The damage they are doing to their own future credibility, when every syllable they have uttered in the past year or so will have to be turned on it’s head, without any of the Unionists the MSM or punters noticing, also remains to be seen.
Cue Private Frazer… !
Wasn’t there Labour connections to a referee who facilitated gun ownership to Hamilton?
Wasn’t there some Labourite with an impossibly small mouth who spoke through his nose?
Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD. Eminent physicist, polyglot, classicist, prize-winning botanist, hard-biting satirist, talented pianist, good dentist, too.
He was a fraud, real name of course was Dick Emery. Johnson will be found out too 🙂
@Col.Blimp IV
State of you lol. Mind your blood pressure 🙂
Everyone is allowed to dislike gordon brown if they want, and joackanese’s nonsense about war crimes is distasteful but old hat, but to start making up conspiracy theories about Dunblame is obscene. Folk reading this blog will have connections to that tragedy, such innuendo is hurtful.
Away and make up pish about postal ballots if you want to play X files.
Thepnr
I’ve got pills for that.
Will I still be able to get them after Brexit?
Capella @ 10.49
What! Lulu has been imprisoned by a coup in Brazil. No that’s not on. Free Lulu now. How very dare they… ah no not Lulu, somebody called Lula. Apologies my bad.
The thing about Johnson is that he changes his tune every few days. A no deal Brexit was “a million to one chance” then just last week it became “touch and go2. The latest incantation is that he is “marginally more optimistic” about striking a new Brexit deal with the EU.
Taken together with leaving the EU “do or die” by the 31st October is an impossibility. We cannot have a deal without an extension so as all the legalese both in the UK and the EU can be neatly tied up and sorted, then put in a drawer and forgotten about.
The only thing Johnson can achieve by 31st October is to leave without any deal, that’s the only “power” he has. But it’s a very weak “power” because it is still possible that Parliament can legislate against leaving without a deal or throw out this government with a vote of no confidence.
Johnson and Cummings know this and are I believe banking on it. They will be forced to ask the EU for an extension by the opposition. Then blame them for keeping us in the EU and being anti democratic bastards. Then Johnson will call an election and will have no trouble getting his date providing an Article 50 extension is already agreed.
Johnson and Cummings would actually prefer the VONC first rather than legislation against no deal. I think maybe Corbyn has now realised that. He aught to step down when an election is called and really throw a spanner in Johnson’s Brexit. Guess we’ll have to wait and see, who said politics was boring 🙂
Gfaetheblock
What is suppressing information that should be in the public domain to be called then, if not a conspiracy ?
Meindevon
Crimes against the Scottish accent?
Worthy a read. I am not Boris: Varoufakis
http://archive.fo/dl7Ku
Thepnr says: at 11:29 pm
“The thing about Johnson is that he changes his tune every few days. A no deal Brexit was “a million to one chance” then just last week it became “touch and go2. The latest incantation is that he is “marginally more optimistic” about striking a new Brexit deal with the EU.”
He’s as slippery as an eel and it appears a lot like he and his backers are using a similar strategy as that developed iirc by Vladizlav Surkov.
The idea being loosely based on creating multiple different conflicting scenarios which results in confusing one’s opponents and the electorate by denying them any factual information so they can properly understand what is going on. This tactic also makes it difficult to pin those that use such methods down on any particular aspect.
@Dan
You’ve also got to remember that there was absolutely no possibility of the UK reopening talks on Brexit unless the EU ditched the backstop. That was the case just a few weeks ago, not now even though nothing has changed.
The EU sees a chance to reach a deal after Johnson declared in Berlin last week that he was more than happy to accept a “blistering timetable” of 30 days to find a compromise. This U-turn from his previous refusal to talk unless the EU scrapped the backstop was seen as an important shift in the UK accepting the onus of finding the solution.
http://archive.fo/uPPgg
Fact is that Johnson is a conman, not even a very good one but desperate people do desperate things. The poor sods supporting him have been overwhelmed by British Nationalist propaganda and succumbed to it. They are more to be pitied than scolded?
Thankfully the majority of them don’t live in Scotland and we have another choice available. I believe we will take it this time.
OH FFS!
Jim Gallagher: Britain needs a new type of progressive federalism
http://archive.fo/kdcpv
Pretendy Professor given more space by the Herald to spout his “federalism” guff as a backup to Gordonzilla. This is now obviously a new assault on Independence. Make no mistake, a referendum is coming soon and the campaign has already begun.
Final paragraph of that piece in the Herald.
“This will be one of the themes explored by the new Think Tank Our Scottish Future being launched with an address by former PM Gordon Brown in Edinburgh this week.”
Thepnr @ 21:07, 23:29,
The problem with Dr Kirsty Hughes, as I read her, is that she is one of those who is still clinging on (by her fingertips, possibly) to Brexit in an “all-UK” context. It’s maybe when the likes of her finally signal that her preferred all-UK halt to Brexit is a total bust and indy is the only available solution for us that we’ll know that the game is truly on.
But when that will be is still anybody’s guess, as you say. I’m not sure though BoJo can afford reputationally or electorally to postpone UK exit beyond his “must-do” date, although civil servants may now be quietly warning him just how much hurt the UK will expect to take…
Alas I don’t have any confidence that the current HoC can do much to hinder the mad lurch into the unknown either. If the best they can do is a deal that takes us off a low cliff rather than off a high cliff, what difference really? And a further delay? People will increasingly demand an end to the clown circus, whatever.
But the parliamentary game must be played, so one can only wish Ian Blackford & Co all the best. One day it may make for a great dramadoc, but in the meantime it’s all our necks that are on the chopper.
You know that when it all kicks off we’ll have to put up with whiny Kezia Dugdale never off our tellys every five minutes
Something to look forward to eh
This next ref is going to lead to a mass violent outbreak of telly breaking and people pulling their own faces off
And the screaming, the screaming!
@Robert J. Sutherland
You’ll like this and anyone else interested in why a Section 30 order is considered the “gold standard” when it comes to Independence referendums may want to take a look at this report written in 2013. As we all know Scotland is not the only country to try and gain her Independence in modern times. We are though VERY different im=n comparison with those other countries.
Both in history and circumstance in which Independence is sought.
“The Scottish Independence Referendum in an International Context” by Professor of Public International Law in the Faculty of Law at Maastricht University.
This is an education worthy of the effort required to read it. A download link (pdf) is available here:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2410255
Thepnr @ 00:23,
Whit?! But we already have the most federalistic federalism possible ever, Broon himself told me so on TV. You mean he was =gasp= fibbing?
I think I need a little lie down…
(Actually I’m beginning to warm to these increasing Broonterventions and associated fairytale spinning, because each time one of them pops up with another putative carrot, it just reminds people of how much they were lied-to before. Not to mention how powerless we would remain under an EngNat government in London. As effective a tactic as poking at a sore tooth, I would say. Not a great play. For them, that is,)
Thepnr @ 01:06,
I’ve downloaded it and will try to have a read through tomorrow. “Heerlijk bedankt” for that!
@Robert J. Sutherland
I’m pleased that you have done. Food for thought.
Robert J. Sutherland says:
“But the parliamentary game must be played, so one can only wish Ian Blackford & Co all the best”
And who better to play it than a Politician or so you might think.
But does anyone here know Ian well enough to be able to say for sure that he is an actual Nationalist?
It has been more than 20 years since I last spoke to him and his guard would still have been up back then, so I never really got a handle on what motivated his return to the colours.
@Col.Blimp IV
If anyone did know Ian Blackford well enough to be able to say for sure that he is an actual Nationalist then they wouldn’t be saying so here and announcing it to the world, would they?
I guess that just leaves you then as knowing him so far, what’s meant by “return to his colours” by the way?
Thepnr
Yellow & Black…Red & White…Yellow & Black
Big black hole in his Wiki Biog (Nae Wonder).
I might have to buy his memoirs when they come out.
Col.Blimp IV @ 01:21,
Another attempt at sowing the seeds of doubt. Heh, heh. It’s true that a lot of parliamentary cheques have been written that one day will have to be cashed, but I for one am still prepared to see this through.
In a war you have to stop thinking about how much you’re hurting and realise that your opponent is hurting far more.
In the meantime, the SNP are playing another game at which they are consummate professionals, and that is the Shetland by-election. It may not be an opportunity of the party’s own devising, but they are certainly making the most of it. Whatever the eventual result, that is something tangible and worthy of all our respect.
@Col.Blimp IV
I should say thanks but I’m none the wiser. What is Red & White?
Thepnr
The rosettes that the opposition wear on election day.
OK sometimes they are red & Black, sometimes red & a kind of orangie yellow and some times simply a rose.
You mean that Ian Blackford might have dallied with the Labour Party in Scotland!
Never mind, many of us did, including myself.
The Labour Party in Scotland have lost over 75% of their voters since 2010, the majority are now voting SNP and some the Lib Dems/Greens and the real die hard Unionists Tory.
The real shame would have been REMAINING in the Labour Party if he ever was there. I’m so pleased that the man seen sense.
Thepnr
Having been in the Labour Party is not much of a sin.
On the other hand publicly resigning from the SNP, as part of a gang of three National Officebearers of the YSN and announcing to the press that the SNP were just a bunch of Cripto-Jacobite, Tartan Tories and only Labour could lead the Scottish working class into the promised land.
Talk about kicking a Party when it is down.
Comes pretty damned close to being an unforgivable one.
OK, I made the bit about the Cripto-Jacobites up and I did vote in favour of his re-admission, some years down the line.
But was never completely convinced about his contrition and in his first incarnation as an SNP member he was to many the virtual embodiment of the Antichrist or at the very least a full cousin to Machiavelli, a sort of prototype Peter Mandellson Minime.
Hey, but people change … They do don’t they?
…Sometimes?
Poor John Swinney was left all alone trying to bail out the badly holed SNP Youth Wing, No wonder his hair all fell out.
Oops nearly forgot –
Donald anderson @
27 August, 2019 at 7:02 am
Keep they “Scottish Navy” flags flying high … Have you had your telegram from the Queen yet?
All hail the Scottish Workers Republic !
Robert J. Sutherland says:
28 August, 2019 at 12:45 am
….But the parliamentary game must be played, so one can only wish Ian Blackford & Co all the best. One day it may make for a great dramadoc, but in the meantime it’s all our necks that are on the chopper.
Brexit will be a disaster and it should be stopped, but I am extremely wary about a coalition to stop it which is ambiguous about whether it’s stopping Brexit or stopping a Hard Brexit. It’s not much of an alliance, and I fear it won’t end well, especially when there will be furious backlash if it’s successful.
I would much prefer to see Scotland addressing Brexit as a foolish misadventure which a sovereign Scottish Electorate opted out of in 2016.
I dearly wish Joanna Cherry had clarified with the ECJ whether Scotland could use its own sovereign prerogative to revoke Article 50 unilaterally. I dare say we could yet still do it and take the gamble that the ECJ and EU would recognise the distinction of Scottish Sovereignty that’s behind it…
To my eye, there is perfect triangulation between Brexit, Scotland democratically rejecting Brexit, and Scotland’s rejection of Brexit being sovereign, but the SNP seem to want a fourth corner in the triangle.which doesn’t make any obvious sense.
Following a gushing introduction “Prof”Jim Gallagher beats on about Gordon Brown’s pie in sky federalism in The Herald this morning
Unionists must be worried about Shetland as even a close result with massive swing to SNP will be a Hugh blow to the Lib Dems bandwagon and that’s why Jo Swindon can’t be bothered to visit when she was high profile in all the other recent by elections. No doubt she is relying on UK press not to report the result or tucked away in page 20 and not mentioned on national TV.
Also famous hand written letter from Lib Dems was printed in England. So much for standing up for Shetland.
Alyn Smith headlines in the National “Want independence? We need to stop Brexit”.
No, ‘we’ need to fully exploit Brexit and the rise of Anglo-nationalism to bring the independence struggle to successful conclusion.
Col dump
Never met. But writes like a true disrupter. Subtle in fairness but tends to undermine the snp and independence.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/may/17/glasgow-school-of-art-hits-back-at-msps-criticism-over-fires
Keep on passing the buck guys.
http://archive.is/YDRb2
John Crace in the Guardian:
“Westminster politics is getting uglier by the day.”
It’s wake-up time for No voters.
The BritNats may be too far gone, the indoctrination too deep, the British Brainwashing too effective.
Any Brexit will be seized upon by the Trump led USA and converted over time to a hard Brexit, which is what the USA wants.
The USA views the EU as a threat to US global dominance.
The English Establishment/Tory Party has set its heart on an alliance with the US, or at least the Republican part of it, ie. the ‘have’ part.
We’ll all have guns next.
online Herald leads with thing called Great British Bake off.
Cutting edge stuff.
Provincial? Us?
Reports stating government to suspend parliament “ for a number of weeks” next month. We are moving into the end game now . Time to “ set a date” for Indyref 2??
BBC breaking news – parliament to be prorogued:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632
BBC Call Kaye has no shame. Giving soft soap air time to Alasdair Carmichael on eve of Shetland by election.
@Capella
Astonishing!
Doomed to fail and looks like just more Johnson and Cummings lies. Pair of chancers they two.
@Capella
Date for shutdown of parliament given as 11 Sept which gives the opposition a week to do something and I believe they certainly will.
Rebels, including senior Tories, likely now to be even more determined to try to change the law next week – 3rd Sept likely to be a big showdown
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1166623753784221698
His plan here I think, is to force a vote of No confidence before the opposition manage to get through legislation that will demand an extension to Article 50. A huge gamble by Johnson and one he might lose. Maybe get a government of National Unity after all, maybe, maybe, maybe…
@Joe says:27 August, 2019 at 8:58 pm:
” … Oh, I know. Their opinion differs from yours.
Well no, Joe, you don’t know. As usual you assume things that were not either said or implied. Then you come out with an abusive conclusion.
” … Now do you see why I fear people like you getting any sort of government power? No wonder you love the new SNP and the EU.”
And there it is the usual pish.
Here, Joe, is the truth.
In early 1962 my younger sister, her husband and her children emigrated to Australia. Later that year my younger brother, at that time a very ill person, died and my mother and father followed my sister to Australia. Mum & Dad much later both died in Australia.
Now here is the point, my sister and her now adult children are in constant contact with myself and my sons here in Scotland.
Thing is, Joe, they haven’t much of a clue as to how things are here back in Scotland. That is the point I made. They are Scots born of Scots parents they consider themselves Scots – and of course they culturally are Scots.
What they are not is members of, “The people of Scotland”, and that is what the Declaration of Arbroath refers to when it forever changed the laws of Scotland.
It is what the SNP has always defined as, “The People of Scotland:-
Anyone of and colour, creed or country of origin who is mainly resident in Scotland, pays their tax as one of the people of Scotland and who is registered to vote in elections as one of the people of Scotland.
Now I have some friends, one family all born in France, another family all born in Italy and a male born in Poland. They are all part of the people of Scotland but my sister, her children and their children are culturally Scots but are no longer, “People of Scotland”, they don’t get to vote here in Scotland they are People of Australia and, in the main, don’t know very much about either current Scots politics or the conditions the people of Scotland live under.
By your own comments here on Wings you are Scottish but as yet not one of the people of Scotland and guess what, Joe, you too have no say in Scots politics until the day you actually are mainly resident in Scotland, pay tax as a Scot and are registered to vote in Scottish elections.
In short you really don’t know what it is to live in Scotland unless you live in Scotland.
Now, Joe, notice I have absolutely nothing against anyone on religious, sectarian, colour or country of origin. They are all welcome to come here and become one of the people of Scotland and they are welcome to leave and cease to be one of the people of Scotland.
@Capella and Thepnr
Certainly not the brightest move if it proves to be true.
That can only end well. 🙄
Is anyone in any doubt now that we have a undemocratic “ Tory Junta” taking control now?
@Macart
The lunatics are definitely in charge of the asylum. for now 🙂
@Thepnr
They’re nothing if not predictable. 😎
Jings!
A bold move gallus even…but what will Queenie do now?
Not long to go now.g
Never a dull moment unfortunately! The opposition will certainly have to move fast if they want to prevent this. An emergency debate forcing Tories to split? John Bercow would likely assist them.
BBC TV just said Joanna Cherry is leader of the SNP
I remember British Labour Nationalist Gordon Brown deliberately frightening the sick and vulnerable and their friends and families during Indy1 `project fear`,
he tried to insinuate that availability of organ transplant and blood products would be put at risk if Scotland voted to end the union with England,
this was denied by
“NHS Blood and Transplant, which co-ordinates organ donation across the UK, has already confirmed in writing that independence would not lead to any change in these arrangements.”
this is the type of evil that is Gordon Brown a true narcissistic sociopath with no empathy for others in distress who will do and say anything to promote himself.
Nicola tweeting:
“So it seems that Boris Johnson may actually be about to shut down Parliament to force through a no deal Brexit. Unless MPs come together to stop him next week, today will go down in history as a dark one indeed for UK democracy.”
Bertie Worcester of the Caledonia Colonial Office was in Edinburgh yesterday. A guy whose main connection to Scotland is that he watched a couple of episodes of Supergran when he was 7.
The latest move by Bories. I shouldn’t have been surprised but I was. Is this enough to convince the doubters.
Will the LibDems ever address the question of choice between a Rightwing UK and an Independent Scotland now?
Will Scottish Labour voters remain in hope being saved by Corbyn.
O/T:
Make what you like over this YouTube clip:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC5hzJNWIrY
Clootie says:
28 August, 2019 at 10:10 am
The latest move by Bories. I shouldn’t have been surprised but I was. Is this enough to convince the doubters.
Will the LibDems ever address the question of choice between a Rightwing UK and an Independent Scotland now?
Will Scottish Labour voters remain in hope being saved by Corbyn.
Once Westminster is prorogued, what’s to stop the unilateral closing down of the devolved administrations of Scotland and Wales and the imposition of direct rule from Whitehall?
For God’s sake, Scotland – wake up efore it’s too late!
Never mind Queenie what will Ruthie say?
Shurley even the proud Scots buts… must be alarmed.
All those old forts in that map I saw in the redcoat days might come in handy! 🙂
Could be handy for Boris having scottish police over in Ireland so they cannot protect the Scottish people from any excesses of British army in Scotland when they castrate hollyrood.
Robert Pestons view.
This battle between government and MPs, over how and whether we Brexit, is now massively, bloodily raging. A number 10 source told me: “If MPs pass a no confidence vote next week, then we’ll stay in No10, we won’t recommend any alternative government,…
“we’ll dissolve Parliament and have an election between 1-5 November — and that means no time for legislation”. Flippin’ ‘eck.
Looks like things are heating up, must be coming to the end game on Brexit now. Will parliament “take back control” LOL.
Link.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1166638377397039105
@ Welsh Sion :
“Nicola tweeting:
So it seems that Boris Johnson may actually be about to shut down Parliament to force through a no deal Brexit. Unless MPs come together to stop him next week, today will go down in history as a dark one indeed for UK democracy.”
….and yet its STILL not enough for her to support a “Plan B”!
The husband & wife Murrell team have to go if we’re ever going to get another plebiscite on Scots indy.
Enough is enough & the SNP conference now has to accept the Plan B proposals or face the consequences – which will be no majority or “mandate” again….
Down the rabbit hole we go.
So, as soon as WM is prorogued, can we argue that since Holyrood is then the Exclusive Parliament of Scotland, the Treaty of Union has been dissolved ?
When WM is prorogued, what happens to the legal status of the Treaty of Union ?
Looks like we could be having a Papal Schism sort of situation with two or even three different people claiming to be the legitimate UK prime minister.
As WM falls apart and a benign dictatorship turns into a Bullingdon dictatorship it is just as well that Scotland is getting own with its own plans. Scotland has its own parliament, democracy, institutions,legal system and an engaged electorate that has been busy educating itself on the benefits of Scotland making its own decisions and taking control of its destiny.
Cometh the hour, cometh the man (woman) …hopefully, maybe, perhaps just wait and see a bit longer…
No deal Brexit now seems a certainty, a GE is called so that Boris gets his Churchillian moment and England votes him in in with a whopping majority to do what he wants. What fresh hell awaits Scotland ?
Please can we exert our ‘sovereignty’ now?
Johnsons “plan” is full of holes. First off he doesn’t get to chose the date of a general election under the fixed term parliament act without either a 2/3ds majority vote to dissolve parliament or losing a vote of no confidence. Both of these options are a decision for parliament and not Johnson.
He has absolutely zero chance of getting a 2/3rds majority for an election after Brexit so that just leaves the VONC. I don’t know who is briefing Peston, probably a Cummings lackey but to suggest:
“If MPs pass a no confidence vote next week, then we’ll stay in No10, we won’t recommend any alternative government, we’ll dissolve Parliament and have an election between 1-5 November — and that means no time for legislation” “
After losing a VONC parliament have 14 days to form a new government that can win a vote of confidence. If this succeeds then Johnson is no longer Prime Minister and a new government will be put in place. Ignoring all that, it will now be possible to have a general election between 1-5th November unless parliament is dissolved 5 weeks beforehand around 27th Sept at the latest.
Parliament cannot be dissolved without either a 2/3rds majority or a VONC. So when is that going to happen if parliament is to be shut down from 1tth Sept?
If there is a VONC next week that is successful then parliament cannot be shutdown as there is no point in having a Queens speech for a government that is no longer in power.
As I said, a plan full of holes that can only succeed in further motivating those opposed to a no deal Brexit and Johnson.
Remember majority of Labour sat on their hands on Joanne Cherry No Deal amendment….plenty time they said…don’t panic..don’t panic…now it’s like….the Corbyn & Swinson show …& ‘other’ parties who shall be nameless….lead Remain alliance to prevent No Deal….like Corbyn has been inactive for three years plus..Swinson just elected new leader Lib Dem 2017 and jumped on ONLY opportunity to be valid again by jumping on Remain bandwagon…a bandwagon LABOUR should have been on from the of…SNP will always be sidelined in the battle and relegated to minor division in all of this….it’s the unionist way…
Also in court action coming up in Edinburgh for some reason Labour seems to be always mentioned as the leading party in this ???????
Meanwhile Ruth and her team will be plotting deflection tactics with their pals in the media….Alex Hole Hamilton will aid Ruth by sending out intermittent SNPBAD messages to convince Shetlanders to look over there…but DO NOT FOCUS ON UKOK politics…nothing to see there…
So ..Scottish independence is crazy is it…..compared to what ?
@Vestas says: 28 August, 2019 at 10:31 am:
” … ….and yet its STILL not enough for her to support a “Plan B”!
The husband & wife Murrell team have to go if we’re ever going to get another plebiscite on Scots indy.”
Why is it that all you anti-SNP mob don’t ever tell us who you want us to vote for? Better still why don’t you all get together and form your own party to oppose the SNP you hate so much?
Wings is full of commenters going full blast to convince others that the FM and the SG and the SNP are not the party to get Scotland’s independence yet not one of you has ever suggested who or what we should all vote for to get a result.
Of coerce there is the other way of looking at all the anti-FM/SG/SNP tirade here on Wings. The anti-mob really want to split up the independence movement so as to see Scotland remain under the Westminster yoke.
If report of a “Government to ask Queen to suspend Parliament” is true (and not just kite flying by Cummings) what does Betty do?
Does she agree to this request as per her role as Head of State in England and Parliamentary Sovereignty or refuse as per her role as Queen of Scots by contract with the sovereign people of Scotland, that if the crown does not serve the people it can be removed by the will of the people?
https://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-sovereignty-for-dummies/
@vestas 10;31 am
Why are you so much against plan ‘A’ ? Perhaps you fully support Bullingdon Boris President of Ukania.
Rev Stu makes some important points here, for those who don’t watch WoS Twitter ….
https://mobile.twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1166642641171300352
Despite the rhetoric about how easy a Withdrawal Agreement, or even deceitfully a Trade Deal, was going to be, there was never any guarantee of successful negotiations. The Article 50 default was always simply leave first the try to sort out the mess afterwards.
From the beginning, Brexit has been a huge case of ‘British’ … “Trust Us, It Will All Turn Out OK, Honest”. There was no honesty, and any trust was misplaced.
England voted to Leave, they need to be allowed to get on with it. Scotland MUST now make preparations to take a different course.
Right then, scary times, and the press will play their part to make them scarier. In that way people can’t see the smoke for the trees, and the real game being played.
1/ Motive.
None of the stated aims of Brexit held any water, not even for a second, and they risked losing Scotland (the UK’s main source of income) just after IndyRef1- when they got the fright of their complacent arses.
So, why? The new EU tax haven laws coming into play, will affect the British Establishments wealth big time, from the Royal Family down. This is wealth stolen over 100’s of years and stashed away. The Spice Trade, The Slave Trade, the Opium Trade to China, the British Empire’s asset stripping of entire continents.
To put it into some form of perspective – just a taster mind you, India estimates the British Raj robbed their continent of 45 Trillion in its time there. I think I read that Scotland’s oil and gas has so far provided London with 2-3 trillion.
Now do you see?
And in the chaos of a No Deal Brexit, you can impose emergency powers, and Close Down Holyrood. At which point, dreams of S30 Orders will seem like a political irrelevance similar to Hitler’s signed ‘peace/piece of paper’.
They are looking to Prorogue Westminster FFS. Until 12th October …. so that’s OK isn’t it, and the Queen will open parliament, and give a speech. I suspect that speech will be where she declares a State of Emergency, and under those powers, imposes local rulers for each ‘region’ of the UK. That will be enough to get past 31/10/19 and the UK out of the EU.
Does anyone think there might be riots in London if WM is prorogued? Remember the Poll Tax, Scotland protested peacefully, London rioted. That would be a good enough excuse for Emergency Powers to be imposed I would suggest.
Timescale.
31/10/19 out of the EU by default if nothing else proactively arranged. No Deal Chaos.
Time required under law to call a new GE 25 days ‘working days’ minimum, plus 14 days admin set up. Working back from 31/10 = about 13th September.
Time required under law to call a new Referendum (on any subject) 28 days minimum, plus 14 days admin set up.
Alternatives: a Vote of No Confidence during which time the parties at WM have 14 days to create an alternative working Government. If unsuccessful a GE called.
Legalities: The law comes down in favour of Johnston not being allowed to Prorogue Parliament. Will they obey this law? It can be over – ruled in a state of emergency.
A vote in Parliament to cancel article 50 – needs for the MP’s to be able to get this on parliamentary schedule to have this vote – and win it. We are down to days now for this to be do-able, and Westminster controls the schedule.
Any possible positives: When Westminster Prorogues – there is no sitting government (same if there’s a VoNC for the first 14 days) in that time Holyrood can do stuff.
Holyrood. The First Minister has the power to call a Holyrood election. Holyrood runs Scotland.
People – the people of Scotland run Scotland, and lets not ever forget it.
Questions/suggestions.
If/When WM prorogues, will the First Minister recall all her MP’s and MSP’s hold an emergency meet in Holyrood, and call local SNP Constituency meets, and public meetings in every area.
If they hold such meetings – I’d strongly suggest when they turn up – they have a Plan, and they tell members exactly what it is.
If Scotland comes out of the EU – even for a short time – what happens legally to our very own billionaire tax dodgers accounts? Is that break, enough to ensure their accounts invisibility in the future? Or does it give them enough time to move them?
The Yes Movement. If we can stop being surprised by all of this, and start being prepared, we can win. But we need to see Westminster’s plan for what it is. Not a bumbling mistake to no deal, but a calculated, well executed plan for No Deal, at every stage, with players on all sides doing their part.
callmedave @ 10.27 am
Shurley even the proud Scots buts… must be alarmed.
All those old forts in that map I saw in the redcoat days might come in handy! ?
_______
I must say, reading your post quickly about “the proud Scots buts…” and followed up by “these old forts”, I read this as, “these old farts”.
Sack me as a professional proof-reader! 😀
Speaker John Bercow is “outraged”.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1166661699463798784
Hmm! Backdoor Boris can become backfire Boris if he has alienated enough ‘moderate’ tory MPs. (moderate Aye!)
Outrageous dragging the Queen into politics..tsk tsk.
DUP gives support to Boris.
Jings! Cricket no longer a thing on the WOS threads for a while.
Boris Blunders Brexit Badly.
He really has, this is guaranteed to backfire. He looks like an idiot on the telly, sniggering and laughing. The man’s a Jeremy and eventually most people will see right through him.
From Wales:
First Minister Mark Drakeford tweets:
“Boris Johnson fought a referendum campaign to put power back in the hands of Parliament and now he wants the Queen to close the doors on our democracy. The Leave campaign claims are unravelling. It’s time to put this to the people.”
Plaid Cymru Westminster leader Liz Saville Roberts says:
“It’s a cynical and fundamentally anti-democratic move.
It is a move that you would expect from an autocratic ruler than the prime minister of a modern democracy.”
I’m very very angry that our Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack Tory MP for Dumfries and Galloway is part of this Cabinet outrage.
Will the great Scottish Leader Colonel Davidson MSP roll her tanks into the grounds of Balmoral to tell the Queen,”Do not sign the Prorogue Document”?
No she won’t cos the High Tories are now running Greater Britain with Boris as the Supreme Leader.
Ruth Davidson is just High Tory window dressing.
We either live in a democracy or we don’t. You can’t suspend democracy. We live in an elected dictatorship. In fact not even elected in Johnson’s case.So this is what they really meant when they spoke of taking back control.
starlaw says:
28 August, 2019 at 11:27 am
@vestas 10;31 am
Why are you so much against plan ‘A’ ? Perhaps you fully support Bullingdon Boris President of Ukania.
Because Plan A is a terribly pedestrian Indyref2 sometime next year, maybe, which is much too little, much too late to save Scotland and the Scottish economy from Brexit and ensure that Scotland’s constitutional sovereignty is respected.
Plan B, whatever Plan B might be, is an alternative to Plan A, which will defend and maintain Scotland’s place in Europe as an independent sovereign Nation.
I support a Plan B, indeed I demand plan B. I consider Plan A to be nothing short of unconstitutional capitulation and abdication of sovereignty.
Presumably if parliament is suspended then we don’t need a section 30 because there is no parliament.
We should just go for it.
@Breeks
“Plan B, whatever Plan B might be”
Since you support Plan B can you explain what Plan B actually is?
Democracy vill be allowed ven it does vot ve vant.
@chicmac
🙂 🙂
“JWT @1114” if she agrees ( to suspension) then Westminster is in effect “ the Defacto parliament of England” and thus Holyrood is therefore ( in totality) the sovereign Scottish Parliament . The union should be declared breached by our parliamentarians.