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The 51st Absolute State

Posted on August 24, 2019 by
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dunks

Nailed it as always Chris – simply brilliant.

Malky

Cloak and mirrors and playing fast and loose with Scotland and its people. Two shysters. Nice depiction.

cynicalHighlander

Top Dollar.

Fergus Green

Put this on the side of a bus.

Skintybroko

Absolutely brilliant

jimnarlene

Brilliant, unfortunately I could hear those two’s voices as I read it.

Terry callachan

I AM THE CHOSEN ONE he says, he even looks to the sky as he says it !
The man has lost it
So has USA allowing him to be president with all the power that entails
Dangerous

link to public-api.wordpress.com

Cubby

An absolute cracker Mr Cairns. Got to be right up there with your very best.

Terry callachan

Refused leave to remain in uk

link to apple.news

kapelmeister

BoJo looking nervously towards his party leader Rees-Mogg.

ahundredthidiot

Even nailed the truth accessing eyes direction…..excellent piece.

starlaw

Spot on again Chris. . Greenland has a brand new Ruby mine, perhaps this is the Donalds real target.

Robert Louis

Absolutely nailed it.

Any person who takes GERS at all seriously should be laughed at. The nonsense is beyond stupidity. If we believe GERS, then apparently, Scotland, with 8% of the UK population is responsible for over 60% of the UK deficit. It is just f***ing stupid.

GERS doesn’t even need debated. GERS is junk, and should be ridiculed over and over again.

kapelmeister

Scotland stuck between a schlock and a hard face.

kapelmeister

Robert Louis@7:48

That’s it Robert.

JunkyGERS. Perfect name for it.

Robert Louis

Sorry O/T so early, but this IS important, and very, very disappointing.

link to thenational.scot

I’d love to know how having a plan B for indy is a bad idea, especially when plan A is a complete non-starter. Unless of course independence was not really your priority, just something you talked about, as a kind of side issue.

Effijy

OK you want Scotland Trumpy.
England has made fortunes from them these last few generations
But it looks like most of them have caught on to our game now.
How about this. We both say that our secret service teams
Agree that we know Nicola has been storing weapons of mass destruction.
She is processing nuclear grade Uranium under Holyrood and the nation
Is ant-fascist.

You say that you are going to invade to free the people and you get free oil.
I”ll send in the English army to do your biding and you give your old pal Bojo
The same deal as Blair and Brown. Every year you arrange business diners at $1,000
A plate, where I’ll say a few words about how great I am and then you secretly buy
10,000,000 of my autobiography books on behalf of the US government and send all that
Lolly to my off shoes account.

Trumpy says; What about the NHS Deal we were discussing?

Effijy

First Minister’s Independence Petition still growing at 272,115 signatures.

link to yes.scot

Tartanpigsy

Exactly that, shysters the lot of them.
Meanwhile the flags are slowly creeping upwards.
Some help from the Wings gang would bd greatly appreciated.
We have a figure required by the end of the month which is still a fair bit off in the distance. link to gofundme.com

Sinky

Lib Dems must be worried about Shetland By election as candidate given a PPB in to-day’s Herald.

Also very interesting article by Craig Murray on the Alex Salmond stitch up.

link to craigmurray.org.uk

chicmac

Great message, one of your best. BoJo is by your extremely high standards, uncharacteristically, a wee bit off or it may just be because it reminded me of Billy McNeil.

Hamish100

The great contraries.

Yip we’re too poor but other countries need and want our resources that we are self sufficient in.

I do think that the SNP should tell the civil servants to revisit how our wealth is created and how our resources are siphoned off.

Oil on tankers deposited in England is deemed to be taxed in England. Some employers based in England register their assets (including those in Scotland) as created in England. Army pays U.K., navy pays U.K., RAF U.K. Tax collected not Scottish and on it goes.

Rick H Johnston

Chris, that says it all.
Genius. Pure entertainment too..
Many thanks for the visual truth.

[…] Wings Over Scotland The 51st Absolute State Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland The […]

Golfnut

@ Robert Louis.

Or you really don’t want your Plan B compromised at this stage, but it does serve as a distraction.

Chris, first class and oh so apt, the establishment have really boxed themselves into a corner with the GERS con, but the only place it is really working is down south, perhaps it’s deliberate.

Hamish100

Ot 1

With Clegg moving link to dcthomson.co.uk. Is a new path being made for other papers? Murray’s insight into the Alex Salmond win in the court was illuminating when He claims that Clegg has close links with the senior civil servant in the case. Lose hundreds of thousands of pounds and still employed! Has not Marra MSp got links with Dc Thomson ? Can she help!,,

OT 2

The Herald and Tom Gordon. What can you say. In the 70’s 80’s and on I enjoyed reading the Herald. Didn’t always agree what was written but recognised the skill of the journalist or feature writer. Now they have Gordon and Hutcheon. How the mighty have fallen. Do enjoy the Sunday National though.

Macart

Neatly done Chris. 🙂

Bryan Weir

Nice one. ;o)

Dan

I understand it’s the case that within the UK union, no constituent part can have economic advantages over others areas.
This has recently been discussed within the context of the UK leaving the EU, and particularly in relation to Northern Ireland and the type of border it may have with EU member Ireland.

If no economic advantages to a particular constituency part of the UK is a constraint of being in the UK union, then Westminster should have been governing in a way that attempts to adhere to that principle.
Clearly they haven’t and they have allowed that aspect to be breached since the get go a few hundred years ago by facilitating the Kingdom of England to have grown its population from approximately 5 to 10 times that of the Kingdom of Scotland.
Pish or not, GERS figures exist and are only a relatively recent construct to add to the hard and fast evidence of population growth figures that effectively prove the Union isn’t fit for purpose.

#DissolveTheUnion

Socrates MacSporran

Chris Cairns – back of the net.

Very interesting piece by Craig Murray, on the Salmond stitch-up. I get the impression Chief of Staff Lynch might well be the senior Secret Service “sleeper” we have been looking for.

Republicofscotland

Yet again a belter Chris.

Meanwhile.

The SNP’s Douglas Chapman comes under attack after discovering a huge group of #BorisBotArmy fake accounts aimed at attacking British citizens who support Scottish independence.

The 77th Brigades Information Activities group and the II group operatives are thought to be behind the undermining of UK democracy, whilst using taxpayers money to do so.

link to thenational.scot

Frank Gillougley

So good to have you back Chris, I missed your work.
I’ve just about given up on the politics as lying is now the established Lingua Franca. Thank God for wos.

Morgatron

That wee holiday has refreshed your pencil CC (oh Matron!) an absolute belter Chris. Stu, he deserves a pay rise!

One_Scot

Lol!

HandandShrimp

Good cartoon.

GERS is going to reap what it sows. People in England are understandably starting to say if we are responsible for 50% of the fiscal deficit then why not let Scotland go. There is a logical disconnect in the messages transmitted that is becoming impossible to ignore.

In the past the UK has had no qualms about exiting territories that have no value so what is stopping them now?

Fireproofjim

Re GERS
Here is an example of a massive asset which could benefit Scotland but doesn’t.
The Lancaster oilfield, west of Shetland, is in Scottish waters. It started large scale production on June 18th at a rate of about 12,000 barrels of light crude oil per day.
Shuttle tankers have already shipped over a million barrels to Rotterdam for refining.
The owners, Hurricane Energy, are registered in Kent. The waters west of Shetland are described as Ex-Regio.( to avoid classing the oil as Scottish).
So all the petroleum revenue tax is classed as coming from this mysterious Ex-Regio land and not from Scotland and, of course, goes direct to the London coffers. As do the profits of Hurricane Energy, if any.
This is only one relatively minor oilfield. There are many more, and bigger, but it is a good example of how a Scottish asset is classified as a London benefit.

Daisy Walker

That cartoon nails it. Spot on again. They reap what they so and we should certainly play on it.

Re Alex Salmond – the establishment have made a bit of an error regarding the charges they’ve libelled against him…. by making them so serious, it will mean the trial (if it ever comes to pass) will need to be held in front of a judge AND JURY.

Any lawyer will tell you – if you have a good ability to speak you case clearly and present yourself well – this increases your chances of being found not guilty.

It will also give Alex the stage.

Its as if the British Empire never learn from their mistakes.

‘Mon Alex … ‘I am not here as the accused, but the accuser, of a British State dripping with corruption from head to toe.’ To paraphrase the Great John McLean.

birnie

It always surprises me that Scottish Government ministers always appear to credit GERS with some validity before criticising aspects of the methodology or findings. GERS is GIGO, “Garbage In, Garbage Out”. Its purpose is not financial, as its creator, Ian Lang former tory Scottish SoS, explicitly stated, but political – to undermine the parties supporting devolution in the 1980s. When, oh when, will these minsters state up front that the whole exercise is farcical and completely meaningless in practice?

Dr Jim

What’s yer plan B then eh?…. well what we were thinking was maybe….No no no what if plan B doesn’t work what’s yer plan C, c’mon tell us that you must have more plans than just A B and C

How many plans have you got tell me now or it’s obvious you’re a failure who isn’t confident in your plan A so now you’ve got a plan B which is no better than the first one, look how many of their plans I’m shooting down in flames

My name is Alistair Darling and I caught you out with that shit before so I’ll send my minions out to do it again

Then I’ll start on what currency are you going to use if the Scottish pound isn’t accepted …..because it won’t be y’know definitely not, you’ll be forced to join the Euro, so c’mon what’s the currency plan B option….see you haven’t got one have you coz if you did you’d tell us

Bloody SNP failures with no plan B or C or D or E or…

My name’s Alistair Darling and I’m here all week to rubbish all the options the SNP have because if they need that many they’re definitely losers

Robert Peffers

@Dan says:24 August, 2019 at 9:31 am:

” … I understand it’s the case that within the UK union, no constituent part can have economic advantages over others areas.”

Just a wee reminder, Dan, that there are only two constituent parts of the United Kingdom. Only the two kingdoms of Scotland and England are the constituent parts of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland and Wales were, and still are, parts of the Kingdom of England.

Wales since the Statute of Rhuddlan and all Ireland since The Irish Parliament’s Crown of Ireland act. Both of which events long predate the formation of the union of the two kingdoms that constitute The United Kingdom.

Jason Smoothpiece

Exactly, a nation with 8% of the population and more than half the debit, which is run by a government in Edinburgh which cannot borrow money.

Half the debit of the UK, aye right I smell shite.

Apologies for the strong language.

Dr Jim

I’m not a gambler but if I was I’d likely put a bunch of money on there being no Alex Salmond trial at all

Everybody on the YES side pretty much believes all this is a British stitch up to remove the former FM from being prominant in Scottish politics and if that’s true the best course of action for the British Unionists is for the accusers to withdraw from proceedings just before the trial on some ridiculous stress and strain of it all story and leave the former FM with the dirt hanging around him for all time so their pet newspapers can torture the implications of it to death in column after column of smear forever

That’s the British thing to do, good old tried and tested he was guilty and we all know it tactics, I mean they can’t have him being found not guilty…. jeez the horror of a Nat winning, Brrrr! perish the very British thought

Ahundredthidiot

RP

I was listening to LBC the other day and an English gent was making this exact point about the two Kingdoms, he made his point very well and suggested Scotland and NI go their own ways…….they cut him off of course.

Robert Peffers

That’s a real humdinger, Chris and has to be your very best to date.

Now here is a bit of information that most dictionaries don’t know.

The term, “Humdinger”, comes from the early days of, “Wireless”, broadcasting. Early mains Radio Receivers had a persistent problem due to the mains electricity frequency hum getting through to the speakers. 50 cycles per second in the UK and 60 cycles per second in the case of the USA.

Then a simple little addition was made to receivers circuits that eliminated this mains hum – “a humdinger”, in fact.

Every day is a learning day on Wings.

Muscleguy

@Starlaw

It isn’t the Ruby mine, it’s the rare earth mine. Greenland is sitting on a huge reserve of rare earth metals. After China stopped the export from it’s mine to keep it in house it cut off the rest of the world. Though a mine in Australia got restarted as prices rose.

But it got the US security bods worried about being able to keep their technological lead without those elements.

Welsh Sion

Just a reminder.

Wales is NOT part of England. It has not been for the purposes of statute law of Westminster since 1967 (Welsh Language Act of that year) and the Henrician ‘Acts of Union’ of 1535 and 1542 (aka The Laws in Wales Acts) were repealed by Westminster under the Welsh Language Act 1993 (and subsequent legislation).

We, to repeat, unlike Scotland, are no longer in union with England. Come and join us, Scotland!

manandboy

GERS. To sum up.

The purpose of THE ANNUAL GERS REPORT, is to enable England to play the abusive husband role, with one of the classics of marital abuse, ‘If you leave, you’ll be completely on your own, with no money, no job and no friends.’
And so across Scotland, the majority of the electorate believes that we are too poor to survive independently outside the ‘union’.

To achieve this, the evidence of Scotland’s wealth has to be destroyed or hidden. This is why no British Prime Minister has ever made any statement about Scotland’s vast oil & gas reserves, so as not to spread awareness of it by drawing attention to it.
In addition, all figures and statistics about Scotland’s economy are doctored so as to present a false picture, one displaying poverty.
Another example is the burgeoning renewable energy industry, with its massive electricity generating capacity, through wind turbines in particular, but kept quiet by State propaganda outlets, the BBC and the newspaper industry.

Scotland is in a deeply abusive political marriage. Getting a divorce is however very difficult, when many Scots are ignorant of their finances and fearful of leaving.

To England’s way of thinking, Scotland is little more than a possession, but with so much inherited wealth in mineral and natural resources, a possession which England believes cannot be let go.

Doug

Sums it up correctly [unlike GERS]. Liars and charlatans, all backed up by the British nationalist media.

Dave McEwan Hill

Robert Louis at 7.59.

Utter bullshit, Robert and you know it.
Plan A has been conceded by Labour and the estimable David Mundell.The Electoral Commissino are arguing about the form of words and the time table so they have as much as conceded it.

And any silly notion that the SNP aren’t aware of alternative avenues means you understand nothing about the SNP.

Squeaking about Plan B and C merely undermines our strengthening position as it presntly proceeds.

bobajock

I estimate that GERS will be an exam question for historians some 5 years from now.

Robert Peffers

@Dave McEwan Hill says: 24 August, 2019 at 11:39 am:
Robert Louis at 7.59.

” … Utter bullshit, Robert and you know it.
Plan A has been conceded by Labour and the estimable David Mundell.The Electoral Commissino are arguing about the form of words and the time table so they have as much as conceded it.”

You are correct Dave, but In one respect I feel the SNP are missing a chance to open up the subject to more public exposure and perhaps also find themselves accused of being closed to open debate when there really is nothing to fear.

Robert Kerr

Mr Peffers,

May I add to the Humdinger technically.

The Magnets inn those days were poor and an electromagnet was used in the speaker. This also was used to smooth the DC supply to the set’s valves. It saved the cost of a separate smoothing choke also but the raw DC from the rectifier was very rough and would be heard in the sound output as an AC hum.
The answer was a second coil in the speaker magnet fed with antiphase AC to counter the hum.

This was called the Humdinger.

Dinger is of course derived from an old Scots word.

“ding the dun deer doon” from the ballad “Jock o` braidislee” populised by The Corries

Thank you for all your inputs.

uno mas

On the subject of ferries from Rosyth to Europe you will remember that a Scandinavian company started such a service back around 2001/2 ish.

At that time I was friendly with a chap who worked in the Scottish road haulage business and through him we found ourselves socialising (drinking) with owners, directors and managers from this business.

One evening I opinioned to one of these types that the new ferry service would be a great boon to his business to which he replied “No we won´t be using that” a reply that left me more than somewhat nonplussed.
“Why on earth not?” I asked and stated the obvious advantages of less wear and tear on vehicles possible savings on costs of diesel and of course the reduction in driver hours on the tacho meaning they could have more time available to reach destinations on the continent.

His answer to all of that was, and I quote, “No we won´t be using that service because we are not encouraged to do so”
At that he gave me a sardonic smile and turned on his heal, conversation terminated.

Of course the service only lasted a year or so after that time and the principal reason the owners gave for discontinuing was the lack of up take from the haulage industry.

Make of that what you will!

Thomas Valentine

Has anyone written a piece on the amount of money spent on “UK projects” in England? That is, things unrelated to Scotland yet is funded with Scottish tax. Examples, London Olympics, Millennium Dome, Cross Rail, Channel Tunnel, HS2 etc. Maybe includes wars and nuclear weapons.

Rev you might know someone bursting to do this because I would not know where to look.

robertknight

Ahundredthidiot @11:06

” suggested Scotland and NI go their own ways…….they cut him off of course”

You mean Independence for England? Now that’d solve a whole host of issues 🙂

Dr Jim

Jim Rodgers world leading economist and commentator says *the UK may be the 5th richest econonmy in the world, that’s debatable, but what isn’t is that without Scotland and its oil the UK wouldn’t make the G7 list because they would drop to around 9th or 10th place*

Oh and Boris Johnson has a new nickname, apparently they’re calling him Mr No Deal

Chris Kilby

Don’t give Lex Luthor ideas.

manandboy

Adam Ramsay of openDemocracy, in an email today, says:

“An election is imminent – and there’s a real risk it’ll be swayed by illegal overspending, secretive lobbying and misinformation on a greater scale than ever before.

Over 100,000 people and senior politicians have now backed our call to give the Electoral Commission real power to punish election cheats.

But we can’t rely on regulators alone. We also need committed, forensic investigative journalism to expose what’s going wrong.

My openDemocracy colleagues and I have spent three years tracking how dark money is undermining our democracy. We’ve exposed how Brexit bankroller Arron Banks lied to parliament – and how Boris Johnson’s Vote Leave broke the law.
We’ve forced transparency on Jacob Rees-Mogg’s secretive hard-Brexit lobby group.

Our work has prompted law change, criminal investigations and been nominated for prizes.
We’ve got tons more leads to chase down – but to keep going, we rely on support from people like you.
Today I’m asking, will you become a supporter of openDemocracy, so that we can keep digging at this vital moment? ”

Yes, I’ll support your work

Adam Ramsay, openDemocracy [supporters@opendemocracy.net]

Grouse Beater

That was always the concern, Chris, that by dumping the EU it left England wholly reliant on the US, and so it has transpired.

The USA doesn’t give a damn about the UK. Happy to see the EU bounced, the US wants greater control over UK trade and the NHS.

Your weekend essential reading:

‘The Ruling Class’: link to wp.me
‘Tarantino’s latest’: link to wp.me

manandboy

IndyRef2 won’t be discussed at the forthcoming SNP Conference, for the same reason that Army Generals don’t post their battle plans on Facebook.

sassenach

manandboy

Exactly!!

manandboy

link to independent.co.uk

“After a meeting in Brussels on Tuesday EU finance ministers said American Samoa, Bahrain, Barbados, Grenada, Guam, South Korea, Macau, Marshall Islands, Mongolia, Namibia, Palau, Panama, Saint Lucia, Samoa, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia and the United Arab Emirates are not doing enough to crack down on offshore avoidance schemes.

Crucially for the UK, the main list excludes a number of British Overseas Territories such as the Cayman Island and Bermuda that were on a previous EU blacklist from June 2015. Complaints about the methodology of that last list saw it scrapped and replaced with the new register.”

It’s worth saying again : The USA is no friend to the EU. The USA views the EU as a competitor, a rival and a target.

The USA is giving the Johnson Government every assistance to leave the EU in a clean-break No Deal. The advantages all lie with the US, and with the British Establishment’s network of Tax Havens and the Money Laundering capital of the World, London.

manandboy

The Tories, the DUP and the UDA. What a forward line the team ‘UK Democracy’ has!

Arlene of course, is only in the first team squad because she represents the UDA.

Funny how the UDA never gets a mention anywhere in the Unionist broadcast media these days.

ephemeraldeception

@Thomas valentine.
You need to lookup national project spends on UK Gov websites. Eg for upcoming national v regional projects this is a useful doc.

link to assets.publishing.service.gov.uk

A lot of regional projects in England get grants from bot Regional and UK Gov sources. Since UK gov doesn’t give Barnett consequentials for most of the central funding Scots taxpayers are paying for their own regional spends + spends deemed national in England. Not so easy to top it all up and Scotland has no audited accounts. It is purposely vague.

Marcia

The latest UK poll by Yougov is out.

Latest Yougov Scottish sub-sample 20 -21 August.

SNP 46
LD 16
CON 15
LAB 9
GRN 6
BXT 4
OTH 3

UK Wide it is:

CON 32
LAB 22
LD 20
BXT 12
GRN 7
SNP 4
PC 1
OTH 1

mike cassidy

1)

Put on your tinfoil hat

And have a wee peak into the 77th Brigade’s living room.

link to archive.is

2)

Dig the krazy bus, kool kats!

link to twitter.com

Sarah

@ Marcia – that is very encouraging for us. It is the first time that overtly Unionist parties total is less than 50% [at 44%] and less than Yes parties.

Loud cheers.

mike cassidy

manandboy + Sassenach

Again

What if there’s never a plan?

link to archive.is

Jockanese Wind Talker

Latest Yougov Scottish sub-sample (20 -21 August) @Marcia says at 1:45 pm, That poll would result in the following seats calculated via electoralcalculus.co.uk:

SNP 53 (+18), losing S Gethins to FibDems
LD 5 (+1)
CON 1 (-12) only John Lamont surviving
LAB 9 (-7) losing Sweeney and Murray amongst others
GRN 0 (NC)
BXT 0

link to electoralcalculus.co.uk

Robert J. Sutherland

Can someone please enlighten me (and maybe others too) as to how this “ex-regio” thing factors into (or not) the GERS calculations? On the face of it it does sound like a convenient ploy for siphoning-off resources directly into UK coffers (in effect “robbing Scotland by fountain-pen”), but is it, in fact?

In the wonderful world of UK Treasury “guesstimates” being most of the sources of GERS data, is even some attempt made to allocate us a “commensurate” =cough= fraction of (100% of) our resources, or is it just a plain outright steal, in effect a Union Jack label plastered over our territory in a more subtle way than the previous (and notorious) North Sea boundary-shift?

Artyhetty

Brilliant image Chris, simple but to the point. UK London government, ‘Scotland you are a massive economic burden to us, but we will fight with every fibre of our beings to keep you shackled’. We all know the Britnats only ever hang onto their colonies to hand them lots of dosh, not!

Re: uno mas@12.07

Interesting but not surprising. When the haulage guy said ‘we are not encouraged to do so’, he probably meant, ‘we are told in no uncertain terms that if we do use the Scottish ferry for our haulage company, there will be serious repurcussions for our business’.

The Britnats must be damn scared now at the thought of Scotland having their own international ferry service. Good, let them squirm, scheming, lying, troughing thieves.

Marcia

Jockanese Wind Talker

That UK seat predictor doesn’t really work for the Scottish figures. If Labour were on 9% in Scotland they would be lucky to win anything. Young Stephen Gethins works hard in his seat and I wouldn’t write him off as those seat predictors do.

defo

Super, succinct scribing again CC.
Time to ask for a pay rise? 🙂

Jockanese Wind Talker

I also think the FibDem result is overly generous on a seat gain @Marcia says at 2:23 pm

Sample is usually too wee.

Will see what James Kelly (Scotgoespop) has to say on this poll.

Artyhetty

Just to say Chris you have Trump off to a ‘T’ there, but Johnson looks a wee bit of a mix between him and Gordy Brown, which is actually very apt. Morphing them in this context is perfect.

Dr Jim

Unionists in Scotland in support of the Amazon burning because Scotland’s FM is against it

They really are silly billys

Lochside

Dave McEwan Hill says:
24 August, 2019 at 11:39 am
Robert Louis at 7.59.

Utter bullshit, Robert and you know it.
Plan A has been conceded by Labour and the estimable David Mundell.The Electoral Commissino are arguing about the form of words and the time table so they have as much as conceded it.

And any silly notion that the SNP aren’t aware of alternative avenues means you understand nothing about the SNP.

Squeaking about Plan B and C merely undermines our strengthening position as it presntly proceeds.’………………………….

Impressed by your naivety DMH…so the red tories, toon clock mundell and the mendacious electoral commission mean that a section 30 will; happen no bother at a’ then?

No Claim of Right, no appeal to Supreme Court ( another joke UK outfit)n no International Courts to confirm our Sovereign right to dissolve the Union under our own plebiscite. No..let’s just wait, while bravely fighting England’s case to stay ( they want to leave !) until we are jettisoned into the Brexit economic hellhole along with the RUk, Scotland, the regional appendage with no power other than a subordinate impotent assembly and a shadow legal system run by Unionist catamites.

Yeah Plan A on currency worked really well for Alec didn’t it?

Col.Blimp IV

Manandboy & Sassenach

Granted Conference is not the place to debate the minutiae of a campaign.

But I think the foot-soldiers are in need of some assurance that there will in fact be one.

Apart from the heady days of Indyref1(sic),since the inception of the devolved parliament, SNP has immersed it’s self in the affairs of what is essentially Scotlandshire Regional Council.

An aside of which being, I went fairly quickly from devoting pretty much 100% of my free time to the SNP, to more or less zero.

The recent zeal expended on attempts to undermine Brexit, MAY have been for sneaky strategic reasons (25yrs of pushing the Independence in Europe, baby-steps to freedom policy, will turn to dust when Scotland finds it’s self in a UK that is no longer in the EU)…but it could be that the SNP has slowly morphed from an being a democratic organisation with the motto “Scotland First”, into a ruling cabal who are “Politicians First”, to whom Independence is little more than legacy baggage from a bygone age.

We should be striking NOW, when the opposition is in disarray, not next year or the year after, when erstwhile remainers are busy reconciling themselves to the reality that they are more British than European and fearing that a further split will re-double whatever the problems related to Brexit turn out to be.

Terry callachan

Anyone know where the money is coming from for Glasgow university to say it intends to spend twenty million pounds in Jamaica over the next twenty years on education as some sort of recompense for having received nearly two hundred million pounds as donations from rich people it thinks may have gained wealth from slavery

What an odd thing to do
Not that I’m ever against helping people who need help we always should if we can

But it just seems an odd thing for a university to do

I wonder if this is a political stunt by those in Glasgow university who have links with the Labour Party

Merkin Scot

Was there a reason that Deirdrie Brock did not mention that Scotland is being charged for HS2 when she answered a direct question on Any Questions last night?
She sounded like an MP from the English midlands rather than the feisty independence supporting Aussie that we all know and love.
Also, her briefing on the ‘Letts’ question was abysmal ie she didn’t appear to know what the question was about until the chairperson hinted to her.
Bad show all round.

Hamish100

Lochside

I remember someone called Alexander in Scotland had their name shortened to Alex (spelt with a X) posh tories used Alick and nowadays middle class and those from south of the border use a c .

Weird.

kapelmeister

Alister Jack is saying that Brexit is better than angry nationalism.

Brexit is angry nationalism you nitwit.

Col.Blimp IV

Lochside says:

“Yeah Plan A on currency worked really well for Alec didn’t it?”

Where was Dorothy when we needed her?

The “We won’t let you use our precious pounds” LIE, was a corker so outrageous, that Alec was dumbstruck.

If ever a LIE deserved to be called out … that was it.

Would the English really deliberately harm their own currency on the sayso of a couple of Jock has beens (Darling and Brown), who they had recently booted out of power for among other things, sabotaging the economy?

Just because the aforementioned duo of maleficent foreigners wanted exact revenge on their countrymen for not doing what they were told?

That howler should have spelled the death of the Abominable No Men …. Pity we didn’t effectively debunk it.

Col.Blimp IV

Hamish100

You are of course right…here – have an X.

LoL!

Dave McEwan Hill

Lochside at 2.44

We had Plan A,Plan B,Plan C and Plan D on currency in 2014 actually if you remember (or perhaps as you are probably not one of us you didn’t know this)and that worked really well didn’t it?

Any currency plan we had decided on they would have lied about anyway and we shouldn’t even have engaged them in an argument about it.

So – tell me this
Have Labour agreed we are entiteled to a referendum?
Has David Mundell agreed we are entitled to a referendum?
Has the Electoral Commission started setting out its case for the form of our referendum?

So what exactly is your argument? Or did the unionists not keep you in the loop about their abandoning their opposition to it?

Welsh Sion

Hamish 100 @ 3.32 pm

Not to mention Xander (as in Armstrong of that ilk).

kapelmeister

David Clegg gone to the Courier.

I second that demotion.

North chiel

Latest “ Britnat ploy “ for Scots to “ swallow” anti independence / unionist propaganda is by way of a £ 5 Lidl voucher in the “ Scottish” daily mail ( today sat) advertised of course via Britnat controlled “ local” radio

defo

@kapelmeister

Have they recruited Clegg on the basis of his integrity, or was it some other initiative?

Joe of the Coutts

I can verify the hum on the line. Seldom could the hum in a, wait for it, radiogram, be totally removed. Capacitors drying out was the main cause, but as an apprentice with good hearing, trying to eliminate that hum was, a bummer. Most didn’t hear it. Like the crackle on a record, the music was heard through it.
So, for me, the joy of transistors, solid state stuff, and totally no hum, is a pleasure I still enjoy.
I haven’t become used to radio stations being presets yet: I liked winding the tuner through and passed and back!

Socrates MacSporran

kapellmeister

Cleggie will fit-in nicely at the Courier. They already have that raving harridan Bowditch writing her poison there.

TJenny

So who is getting Cleggy’s post on the Daily Record, and should we care?

crazycat

@ Marcia at 2.23

I think Jockanese Wind talker’s 9 for Lab was a typo for 0, since he also put them on -7. (Corroborated by total number of seats = 59.)

call me dave

SNP remain firmly in the driving seat in latest YouGov subsample

link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com

gus1940

RE the proposed ferry from Rosyth to Groningen I am puzzled as to the choice of destination as opposed to Zeebrugge.

Zeebrugge has all the necessary ferry port facilities whereas Groningen does not appear to have them.

Zeebrugge is far better placed regarding access to Belgium, France and Germany and even to most of The Netherlands.

Looking at a map the distance to the 2 ports from Rosyth would appear to be similar. While Zeebrugge is further south Groningen is further east.

One of the reports mentions that 2 ferries have been chartered from Stena. Stena operate 2 former Superfast vessels on their Cairnryan service. If it is these they would be ideal and could provide a service like the late lamented Superfast as opposed to the awful short-lived Scottish Viking which couldn’t even dock in Zeebrugge without tugs.

Lochside

Dave McEwan Hill says:
24 August, 2019 at 4:07 pm
Lochside at 2.44

(or perhaps as you are probably not one of us you didn’t know this)…..’NOT ONE OF US?’…..thought you were above the McCarthyite snidey digs perpetrated by the hive mob that have established themselves on here for the last couple of years?

Obviously not…very Thatcher like there Dave. Just in case you don’t know, I have been commentating on here for many years. During that time I have been critical of the SNP and the enemies of Independence in equal measures.

This site encouraged healthy debate, but increasingly it has been infested with half witted ‘fur us or agin us’ trolls driving many stalwarts away.

We are weeks away from forced undemocratic eviction from the EU and so far there is no discernible plan or action from our SG led by the SNP.

If you have confidence in the reactions from lyuing Unionist individuala nad institutions to deliver a rerun of the 2014 Referendum including the bogus voting results ( as you evidenced on here) in Argyll plus the breaches of Purdah etc by accepting Westminster’s permission via an S30 or failing that a UDI style go it alone Referendum then good for you.

I don’t. For the reason that NS herself said that she required International recognition, a gold standard of the process.
While we remain a devolved part of the UK, we are dependent on the UK Gov assent via s30. If it is refused, is NS going to go ahead anyway?And on what constitutional basis? and under what kind of conditions? E.G. even more media black outs and distortions and a boycott by the Unionist electorate?

Old Pete

Strategically and tactically we have to go for Independence soon as is possible or a great opportunity will be lost. How we organise a referendum with most councils run by anti-Scotland councillors who will refuse to comply unless the UK government agrees is beyond my Ken? All I now is we might never have a better opportunity, with a short passionate campaign giving us victory.
If the SNP delay till after the probable general election which is expected after we leave the EU then they have to somehow, someway state that if the SNP gain the most seats in Scotland then they will accept their victory as a mandate to hold a Scottish independence referendum. Have no idea how the SNP will go about this only feel if they don’t we will regret it, we have an opportunity but can Nicola and her team take it ? I’m not so sure.

Dr Jim

Scotland wins a sporting contest and Scottish Yoonworld rages with anger

It’s apparently the FMs fault as well

defo

How long would the illegally acting Yoon cooncils last, when faced with a cooncil tax boycott.
And would they also not be considering their personal positions JIC indy prevails, given recent polling, and it’s upward trend?

Robert Peffers

@Robert J. Sutherland says: 24 August, 2019 at 2:06 pm:

” … Can someone please enlighten me (and maybe others too) as to how this “ex-regio” thing factors into (or not) the GERS calculations?”

No! Go do your own research.

I’ve explained this so many, many times on Wings before. If you cannot be bothered reading it then go do your own research.

However, I will tell you this – It isn’t, “ex-regio”, it is, “Extra-Regio” and here is an Office of National Statistics website that will define the term for you.

https://www.ons.gov.uk › file › regionalaccountsmethodologyguidetcm7725

Ron Maclean

Those aspiring to the status of ‘one of us’ should read the following –

‘The site advocates Scottish independence, but is not affiliated or connected in any way to the SNP, and neither gives to or receives money from the party, nor indeed any other party. We have an inquiring mind, and welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate.

Got something worthwhile to say about Scotland’s future? Try us.’

From: Wings Over Scotland ‘About us’.

Robert J. Sutherland

Robert Peffers @ 18:57,

Thanks for another demonstration of the warm community spirit for which you are so well-known on here.

If indy depended only on gratuitously offensive egotists like you, it would take as long again as you have been claiming to support it. If it hadn’t died through lack of nourishment first.

Golfnut

@ Old Pete.

The new referendum Bill by passes the council’s, by including the right of the SG to appoint officials.

sassenach

Robert J. Sutherland

Mr Peffers has explained this many times, and I would have thought you would have read one of his pieces, and not taken the huff with him.

He has, over the years, provided excellent articles on the history of Scotland.

Give him a break!!

Joe

Being a small resource rich nation is like being a beautiful young caucasian woman in a MalmĂś suburb alone at night.

Dr Jim

This site may not be affiliated or connected with the SNP but it wouldn’t have existed without them

As with aspirations to Independence for Scotland

dakk

Whit’s been happnin wi’ the cricket’n’at!

manandboy

link to theguardian.com

This looks like hard-line extreme politics to me. So much for ‘Boris”s famed charm.

Golfnut

@ Gus 1940.

It could be that Zeebruge is pretty close to capacity, particularly scheduled ferry routes for freight. There could of course be log jams of freight with ferries on berths for a lot longer than normal, therefore difficult to schedule new ferry routes. Emmshaven may have a lot more slack and I believe they have recently been extending warehouse capacity.

manandboy

I could be completely wrong on this, but my sense tells me the worst is yet to come. Behold, distress approaches.

Independence for Scotland is simply not an option. It’s essential – and somewhat urgent.

Robert J. Sutherland

sassenach @ 20:17,

=roll eyes=

It costs nothing to be civil about a civil request addressed to the community-at-large, and if it was so much of a bother for him, he needn’t have bothered either to go out of his way looking for trouble over it. All I wanted was a brief resumĂŠ, not a thesis. He has wilfully accused me in the past of being a “know-all”, so his response is hypocritical to say the least.

Anyway, it’s not as though he’s ever been reluctant, with the flimsiest of stimuli, to spout whole screeds of predigested antiquated babble at the drop of a hat.

Col.Blimp IV

dakk

Jeffrey Archer seems to have taken it up and with some success, if the wireless is to be believed.

Can’t be a very physically demanding “sport” if someone his age can perform at the highest level.

call me dave

Radio 5 (Brexit) discussing Boris and closing Parliament darn Sarf.

First caller wants Queenie to cancel Brexit… 🙂

dakk

Col Blimp

Looked like he had a double rupture yesterday by the look of his gingerly walk off the pitch as England toiled.

Didn’t look himself at all ol’ jeff

Dan

@manandboy at 9:46 pm

Archived that link for you…

link to web.archive.org

Dan

Simon Cheng (Scottish Development International) released by China.

link to web.archive.org

Lenny Hartley

A couple of years ago there were rumours about Mountatten and conjecture that Willie McRae was executed as he had info on an establishment Pedophile ring. Looks like the first part is going to hit the headlines with the publication of a new book. Always thought this was more likely than the nucleur stuff. I have read elsewhere that the bomb was probably taken aboard by the fifteen year old crewman (not that he knew about it!)
link to irishcentral.com

Jason Smoothpiece

Prince Andrew getting a hard time re the child abuse in USA.

Damn shame.

Republic are looking for new members, just saying.

Graf Midgehunter

Re Rosyth – Eemshaven ferry

Scotland does need a ferry to the continent, no doubt about it. Our exports are vital and will expand when we get Indy.
So a port at the right place is important.

I would have gone for for somewhere central like Rotterdam, Antwerpen or Zeebrugge with quick, short distances to the main population regions of Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and France.

I’ll admit to being sceptical at the beginning because Eemshaven (Harbour on the Ems) is what we say over here as “Am Arsch der Welt” (at the arse end of the world), a lonely place where the chickens and foxes say goodnight to each other…! Flat as a pancake.
Parking – no problem, 30m between lorries and still loads of room.
It’s about 30km to get to the next motorway and some serious driving in front of you.

However, if you think about the distance from Edinburgh to Dover before you start with the ferry, that’s a long, long way.

From Eemshaven the same distance would get you well into Bavaria, Northern France or Switzerland.

So it could be viable providing the transport companies see the sense in it.

From Edinburgh into the welcoming arms of the Dutch.. 🙂

Ian Brotherhood

@Lenny Hartley –

It’s so fuckin exhausting, watching these elite perverts getting away with it while ordinary punters still feel obliged, for whatever reason, to defend them.

Let’s face it – the ‘British’ monarchy should’ve ended back in the day, after Di was bumped off. The masses were at the fuckin gates. It was happening right there on the box. Then Maj steps up, does her stuff, and we fall back into line…

Only other time I recall seeing her doing anything similar was when she was leaving that church up north, letting it ‘slip’ that we should think very carefully about how we were going to vote in indy1.

I’m not in a particularly positive frame of mind right now but I genuinely don’t believe we will ever be free as a nation whilst ‘The Crown’ exists. I can’t envisage the British State ever letting us go by democratic means, even if there is widespread/popular civil disobedience. They’d rather go all-out and have another war (Ooops! Sorry, wrong word!), well, another set of ‘troubles’ right on their own doorstep than accept that their poxy empire is about to vanish down the fuckin plug-hole.

Cubby

Robert J Sutherland

Mr Sutherland is that you back to being hypocritical again. The old pot calling the kettle black.

Brian Doonthetoon

Had a look at Eemshaven on Google streetview – it’s a port, nothing else. It’s not a part of a thriving community, it’s just a port.

But it does seem to have infrastructure connections.

link to goo.gl

“Eemshaven is a seaport in the province of Groningen in the north of the Netherlands. Population of the area was 5 in January 2017. In 1968, the Dutch government declared the Ems estuary to be an economic key region. One of the key developments for the region was the construction of a seaport called Eemshaven.”

Thepnr

Check out the state of this utter crap.

Expert insists on indyref3 to avoid repeat of Brexit chaos

link to archive.fo

British Nationalists soiling themselves gain momentum LOL

Dr Jim

Apparently there are still some people who believe they’re paying for a TV licence

Sorry foks you’re paying a UK government tax to own a TV, the BBC doesn’t get the money, it goes directly to the exchequer and the BBC is paid from general taxation as it always has been, It’s only now that the government wants shot of the responsibility of increasing the tax (bad for votes) they’re shoving it onto the BBC to do the tax funding collecting job for themselves, and that’s why the prices are going up and the old folks like me (well not me) are having to pay

Oh, and do remember when you buy a new TV if you pay cash don’t give your name and address to the shop if you intend not to pay the BBC any money, you don’t have to and the shop still has to give you the guarantee

Nobody in Asda asks for your identity if you buy a microwave at ÂŁ60 or a TV for ÂŁ400 but you still get your reciept in case it’s faulty for a no quibble return

Dr Jim

@Thepnr 11:36pm

Yer no gettin wan, but if yeez dae

Panic panic panic!! and what’s it got to do with Neil Findlay I thought he’d retired from threatening people on behalf of Labour

Col.Blimp IV

Here was me thinking that Scottish Unionists believed to a man/woman that a referendum was a thing you were only supposed to have one shot at.

Now they are squealing “Best of Three” – the mark of the bad looser.

Robert J. Sutherland

Cubby @ 23:27,

Sorry, didn’t realise you had been appointed the politeness prefect. Maybe then you should address your concerns to your hero the instigator.

I wish though you actually had something positive to say for once, rather than your customary delusional witch-hunting or this silly passive-aggressive twitting…

manandboy

link to theguardian.com

The image for this article is of, r-l, Macron, Merkel and Johnson. Now let’s check out the body language. Macron and Merkel have their hands out front for everyone to see. In contrast, and somewhat awkwardly, Johnson has his hands behind his back, out of sight.
The body language here says that Macron & Merkel are out front, up front, and nothing to hide. Johnson’s body language tells a different story.

Johnson has another agenda. Made in the USA.

Heart of Galloway

More straws in the wind…

At Ayr today on a day oot at the beach some of the family and I popped into a local hostelry for a bar lunch.

A high chair was provided for the grandwean a cheap and perfectly fine meal hit the spot. While paying for the food, the cook told me she’s off to the US for two months then Mexico for five.

“Are you coming back?” I asked. “Aye, in April.”
– “That’ll be in time for the independence referendum then?”
– “Aye, it’s amazin’ the things ye dae tae vote yes.”

At this stage, the bar owner – a typically, warm, nae-nonsense Ayrhire wummin in her late sixties who was standing nearby – for no obvious reason threw her arms around me.

“Listen son, ah’m no’ SNP. But See that Boris Johnson? He’s a clown – what right has he got tae tell us what we cannae dae?
“We have tae go for independence.”
– “How?”
– “Because we havenae got a choice.”

The day before I had reason to phone a solicitor friend on a business matter. Totally out of the blue he said: “By the way, I have some good news for you.”
– “Oh aye, what’s that?
– “I’ve totally come round to your way of thinking. I’m now a yes voter. Honestly.
– “What did you change your mind for?
– “Well, there was the Europe thing (my pal is of Italian heritage). I believed the other crew when they said a no vote would mean Scotland stays in the EU. I was a mug.
“Then there’s the monarchy.”
– “What aboot it?”
– “I didn’t think the SNP were strong enough in getting rid of the monarchy.”
– (*bites tongue) “Well, all in the fullness of time.”

Last week I had another exchange, this time at a local fair with a Tory farmer who admitted to being worried about Brexit cutting Scotland’s renowned quality beef sector off at the knees.
– “Do you honestly think Boris Johnson cares twa shites about Scotland?” I asked (nae point in fannying aboot with Galloway farmers).
– “Aye well, we’ll have to wait and see.”
– “Wait and see? What, after the Tory government stole Scotland’s ÂŁ160 million convergence money?”
– “Aye, that wasn’t handled very well. But all politicians…they should be put up against a wall and shot.”
– “All? When has Nicola Sturgeon of Fergus Ewing ever done Scotland wrong? Or no’ been honest about things?”
– “Aye, well…”.

There was no further response – just a furrowed brow and a quizzical look. Now, not for moment do I think this man is of a mind to vote yes.

But he put foward no reasons why the union was good for Scotland. And as an intelligent man, you could sense his discomfiture as to why that should be.

I thought that lack conviction was significant – just as significant, in fact, as the other two conversations.

Taken together, they indicate not only a discernable shift to yes and a strengthening of commitment to independence among non-SNP supporters, but also a hesitancy among previously committed unionists as to the merits of their case.

All three exchanges – brief and incomplete as they were – in my book at least add to growing evidence of a turn of the tide in our favour, a shift that appears to be gathering momentum.

And it is entirely consistent with the You Gov poll showing an indy majority by party (SNP 46 + Greens 6).

Make no mistake, outside the blogosphere, the twittersphere and any other kind of sphere something truly fundamental is happening whuch has shifted yes/no dial significantly in our direction.

Part of it is certainly a sense that Scotland as a country is facing extinction unless we break free from the Westminster Tory nuthouse.

So persuade those who you can. Convince those who you must. Ignore those who you can’t.

And I don’t know about anybody else, but around these parts the campaign has already started. Lay on! Lay on! They fail!

defo

A rather inspiring straw ^

Robert J. Sutherland

Heart of Galloway @ 01:13,

Some interesting anecdotal evidence there.

I just hope we don’t wait too long so that the doubters begin to relax and think “well, it’s no so bad really…”, because then we’ll have blown our chances. That’s my main worry, that normalisation will begin to set in. That’s why I don’t want to wait nearly as long as another year.

[…] but also a hesitancy among previously committed unionists as to the merits of their case.

Which illustrates a quite important point. Some will not be persuaded enough to flip, but might still contribute, since we not only succeed by winning converts (always best, since that increases the “yes” margin by +2) but also by dissuading reluctant opponents from feeling motivated enough to cast an opposing vote (a lower margin increase of +1, but still worthwhile).

gus1940

Golfnut

Superfast had its own dedicated RoRo berth at Zeebrugge which presumably is still there as it was used by the subsequent Scottish Viking fiasco vessel and the recently abandoned cargo only service.

ScottieDog

@Heart of Galloway
Lovely stories for a Sunday morn! Hope the SNP hierarchy are reading 🙂

A very good friend of mine from LONDONDERRY visited a while back. We always ban political discussion as it gets a bit intense as you can imagine. This time he said Nicola needed to get her act together and get oot!

I was jumping inside but just smiled causally and opened the vino.

Happy Sunday 🙂

Golfnut

@ Gus 1940.

Hi, I’m not suggesting that Zeebrugge isn’t the better option under normal circumstances but on 31st October, normal is going oot the windae. I haven’t a clue what the business model is for this service, but if it was me starting this venture, at this time, with the anticipated difficulties, by passing a 3 day park up sounds like a pretty good USP just for starters. I think one of the headlines on this was that Whisky exports were saved, me, I was thinking more along the lines of medicines and perhaps livestock( if we can still export them) rather than tourism at this time. Anyway I wish them well and really hope its just the start of direct links with Europe.

robbo

Did I hear that eegit Boris right there on Sky?

“We don’t sell any pork pies to US,this is our chance to penetrate”

Seriously. wtf is this mince?

Dorothy Devine

Robbo , minced pork!

heart of Galloway, I was chatting to a lady during the referendum and she was unconvinced of yes , said she got all her information from Radio 4 , ever so trustworthy! I was chatting to the same lady the other day and she said she wasn’t on the side of the SNP but my goodness that idiot Boris and his entourage had definitely altered her thinking about independence.

She had also been listening to LBC with Mr O’Brian had got a wee taste of those south of the border and their freaky ideas about Scotland.

It pleased me to think that there are others waking up and teetering on the brink -from hardline UKOK’s to maybe Scotland free of a nasty Westminster influence.

Joe

@Heart of Galloway

I think you are correct about a shift in Yes/No sentiment. I think it would be in the bag already if there was a viable ‘pro indy’ party that wasnt also full-on social justice leftist arseholes that somehow see’s diktat from Brussels on anything meaningful as being independent.

Ive lived and worked in the EU for years and under left wing governments. There’s a reason so many Europeans (and even refugees/economic migrants) want to be in the UK.

I dont want to say this but its the truth for me – on voting for independence I fear that the hyper progressive Scottish people will crawl further up their own arses and basically turn the place into an intolerable leftist shithole. Dont like the transgender issue currently? It will get worse.

Why do I say this? Because the majority of Scottish nationalists ive ever met have been UTTERLY clueless on economics, have a very narrow vision (i.e if its British or American its bad, if its anyone else then its good), dont know anything meaningful about socialism in the 20th century and are wide eyed idiots when it comes to the realities of the EU.

The hypocrisy I see on social media with pro indy people (yes I know the Unionists are arseholes) makes me want to puke. No facts, no reasoned thoughts just pure emotion and political bias.

Dan

@manandboy at 12:46 am

Link archived again for you…

link to web.archive.org

Questions –
Is there really any point in continuing to create archived links for the direct links folk have previously posted on here?
Do we just accept some folk can’t be arsed to spend the extra 30 seconds to archive links from unionist rags?
Why would any genuine Indy supporters, once enlightened as to why we archive links, continue to post direct links to “newspapers” that constantly attempt to undermine our cause and deny our ambitions to end the corruption we endure in the UK union?

sassenach

Joe @8-19am

Your Tory instincts are showing once again, Joe, you need to be a lot more subtle to persuade people on here!!!

Fergus Green

@Robbo 8.00:

Boris doesn’t sell pork pies. He just tells them!

Heart of Galloway

RJS@3.53.

Exactly. Morale, motivation and belief in the cause are priceless allies in any battle.

Yes outscored our adversaries in all three in 2014 but Scotland’s media fifth column, the purdah-breaking Vow and a last minute failure of nerve on the part of a significant number of people (immediately regretted) served to hand the British nationalists a narrow win. That, and some reality-defying postal vote returns, to which many have alluded before.

This time Yes is starting from a base of 50% plus, as opposed to 30%. There is also the growing perception that the very survival of Scotland is at stake – a belief that we MUST prevail because the implications of another defeat are unthinkable.

As to timing, I believe we will be guided by events as they unfold. Our diplomatic ties establiished with the EU before Brexit will come into play, likewise the Referendum Bill which when law will deliver both the mechanism and the legitimacy for holding IndyRef2.

I would not rule out an acceleration of the IR2 schedule if circumstances demand it.

Breeks

Robert Peffers says:
24 August, 2019 at 6:57 pm
@Robert J. Sutherland says: 24 August, 2019 at 2:06 pm:

” … Can someone please enlighten me (and maybe others too) as to how this “ex-regio” thing factors into (or not) the GERS calculations?”

No! Go do your own research.

@Robert J. Sutherland

link to researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk

“***Extra-regio refers to output that can’t be assigned to region/country, e.g. North Sea oil & gas Source: ONS, Regional gross value added (balanced), UK: 1998 to 2016, Dec 2017”

It seems “North Sea” resource is actually in the territorial waters of Limbo, not Scotland.

The U.K. Government won’t release the raw data upon which they compile their GERS statistics, so it’s impossible to identify any instances of creative accounting. They interpret North Sea Oil as a stateless commodity, but which remains under the UK umbrella, so it’s input can thus be used flatter UK economic performance, but without flattering the Scottish economy. It’s basically theft. They take what’s ours and call it theirs.

There are similar loopholes where Scottish commerce is discounted from Scotland’s economic performance because Companies are registered in England and file their tax returns in England. Scottish produce which is exported from English ports which flatters the “UK” balance of Trade.

Another GERS manipulation, at least I think it was GERS, was comparing Scotland’s GDP before and after Indy, but calculations were done per capita; as in Scotland has 8.5% population so would get 8.5% of the “UK” oil. It is categorically untrue and misleading. 96% of “UK” oil is in Scotland’s territorial waters and belongs to Scotland, but without that information, how would you ever know to question the GDP figures? What ‘other’ manipulations don’t you know about? – Especially having proof the compilers of the data are demonstrably willing to manipulate and distort the information.

With indisputable evidence of ‘some’ manipulation of the figures, the immediate conclusion ought to be the figures are thoroughly discredited and raw data audited. The Scottish Government should really demand to see the raw uncompiled data before compiling any of its own reports or making fiscal judgements and decisions based upon manipulated information which cannot be properly audited.

GERS is the UK’s manipulated version of the raw data, and should properly be dismissed in lieu of the raw data. You could always reciprocate and start filling in your tax returns with discretionary figures rather than honest ones and see how well the UK Government reacts.

Westminster is absolutely determined to cover up the scandalous extent to which Scotland’s resources are being exploited. The truth must never come out. We Scots would be “angry”. I saw a comment online that the British Empire had extracted £40 trillion for India under Colonial rule. We can only speculate what the Union has cost Scotland. Given the relative populations of India and Scotland, I have a gut feeling Scotland would fare even worse.

Let me qualify that too… portions of Scotland flourished as a nett benefit of the British Empire, and to what extent we all did might never be fairly assessed in the round. Whatever the figures, your average Scot has a better lot than your average Indian in real terms, but at issue is the theft of what we had stolen.

Westminster will never release the raw undoctored figures because once the shenanigans were transparent, the UK economy would be revealed as a complete travesty.

Given the manipulations designed to impoverish the Scottish economy, strip out Scotland’s wealth and offload UK debt onto Scotland, perhaps the GERS figures themselves would provide credible argument of Scotland’s colonial subjugation and exploitation of resources. That’s not just a turn of phrase, the UN has definitions concerning colonial exploitation where a Nation’s resources are usurped with no apparent benefit of the indigenous people or their Nation.

Sadly in Scotland, we lie back and look at the ceiling, and dream of having a vote about it some day.

Definition: ‘Democracy’. (Noun). The process whereby Westminster subjugates Scottish Popular Sovereignty, and the Scottish Government routinely acquiesces.

Robert Peffers

@robbo says: 25 August, 2019 at 8:00 am:

” … Did I hear that eegit Boris right there on Sky?
“We don’t sell any pork pies to US,this is our chance to penetrate”
Seriously. wtf is this mince?”

Soonds afu like pork mince tae me, robbo, whit else wad be in pork pies?
;-))

Dan

I suppose this is on topic to a degree as it is happening in our Absolute State and it’s hard to see any let up with the trajectory the UK is heading.

link to twitter.com

Dedicated to the good folks of Lancashire. Appropriately titled AC/DC tuneage for our fractured UK society.
Both tracks are noisy as fook for a Sunday morn, but I guessed they’d need something loud to hear over seismic activity…

For Those About To Rock, We Salute You

link to youtube.com

Shake Your Foundations

link to youtube.com

galamcennalath

There are rumours that the Rothsyth ferry service was allegedly sabotaged for political reasons. Not enough trucks used it and somehow that situation was engineered.

Anyone know what the truth is here?

Hamish100

Joe and “. full-on social justice leftist arseholes”

Is that the sort of folk that may help out at foodbanks because the right wing shitpots have squirrelled their monies offshore?

Must be nice to be so arrogant and right wing. The woes of the world is everybody else’s fault.

Thankfully I believe Scotland in the main would offer a helping hand rather than step over a body in the street tutting about those slivers.

robbo

So on trade deal Boris will demand export of those horrible(imho)
Melton Mowbray pork pies and shower trays and in return he’ll The Donald, give us clori chicken, hormone beef, aye excellent. Boris,way to go man ,you’re great!
FFS , that’s it ,I’m aff oan the drink the day,can’t fecking deal wae this.

Hamish100

Skivers

Robert Peffers

@Joe says: 25 August, 2019 at 8:19 am:

” … I think you are correct about a shift in Yes/No sentiment. I think it would be in the bag already if there was a viable ‘pro indy’ party that wasnt also full-on social justice leftist arseholes that somehow see’s diktat from Brussels on anything meaningful as being independent.”

Give it up, Joe, first of all The EU has no way of forcing member states to do anything. Unlike the UK it doesn’t work by diktat and compulsion and, as every member state has a veto, if they do not want to do anything that the EU wants them to do they just veto it or just ignore it.

The EU works by democracy and consensus while the UK works by diktat. Furthermore what you claim as extreme left wing is in face slightly left of centre. Strange that you claim it as extreme left wing. It takes an extreme right winger, (fascist), to view the EU as being extreme left wing.

In other words, Joe, you are wasting your time here on Wings for everyone, bar your own kind, knows you for what you are.

If you doubt what I claim above then explain how Sweden, a founder EU member, still has not been forced to adopt the Euro?

Oh! Don’t bother telling more lies, I’ve answered that question already – it is because the EU has no way to force member states to do anything because the EU works by consensus.

If member states adopt EU recommendations it is because they must have agreed to them or the member state would just ignore the EU directive or would have vetoed whatever the directive was when it went through the EU parliament.

BTW: There are no unelected people in the EU making members do anything. Those, “Unelected People”, are commissioners and that means they are employees, (commissioned”, means paid for and you do not elect employees who, in any case, cannot make decisions – only the EU parliamentarians make decisions – not the EC.

Liz g

Joe 8.19
Let’s suppose you’re right Joe and Scotland has a “Right On” rather than a “Right Wing” government after Independence.
Then the people of Scotland simply vote them out…
Thus actually getting the form of Government best suited to our needs.
Not ” decades ” of Government we’ve never voted for
That’s the whole point.
Right!

HandandShrimp

Had a rare listen to radio Scotland news. Second or third item is Edinburgh to Glasgow rail journey was really really busy last night. People felt it was overcrowded and there were kids there (said woman who mentioned she had her bike with her). No one hurt, no delay just crowded on a short rail journey.

…and the BBC wonder why people turn off.

Robert Peffers

@Breeks says: 25 August, 2019 at 9:14 am:

” … “***Extra-regio refers to output that can’t be assigned to region/country, e.g. North Sea oil & gas Source: ONS, Regional gross value added (balanced), UK: 1998 to 2016, Dec 2017”
It seems “North Sea” resource is actually in the territorial waters of Limbo, not Scotland.”

Utter pish! Breeks.

Up to 98% of all oil and gas revenue is accrued by Westminster from territory that is recognised as being under the, “International Law Of The Seas”, as being under Scottish legal Jurisdiction. a.k.a. As being legally Scottish territorial waters. That make4s those waters identifiable.

The term, “Extra-Regio”, is identified, (By the ONS itself), as referring to, “Territory that cannot be identified as any particular region”. Yet the International Law of the Seas, can, and does, identify it.

Thus it isn’t in limbo as you claim. It is clearly being, to use a Scottish legal term, “pauchled”.

And don’t even dream of challenging the statement of, “Up to 98%”, the reason this figure is not precise is because there is never 100% or oil & gas installations producing at any one time. There are always installations out of service for some reason or other. For example, break downs, strikes, maintenance, moving rigs to other locations and so on. That means only 2% of oil & gas revenue comes from other than Scottish territorial waters.

Dan

An articles from earlier in the week by Jason Michael McCann.

link to randompublicjournal.com

Cubby

Lizg@10.07am

Spot on as ever Liz.

Cubby

Robert J Sutherland@12.45am

I will address each of your criticisms in turn.

1. I am not a politeness prefect and never will be. That is just a bit of deflection. The point is not whether or not you act politely or not but the fact that you act hypocritically by criticising others for criticising in an unpolite way and at the same time doing it yourself on many occasions. Pot calling kettle black. I am sure an intelligent man like you can tell the difference so your comment is deflection.

2. Sorry don’t do hero worship.

3. Sorry I don’t believe in witches, goblins, ghosts, wizards, ghouls etc etc so I don’t go hunting for any such creatures. If however you aren’t referring to phoney independence supporting Britnats then I don’t need to go hunting for them either. They appear of their own free will on Wings.

4. Scotland will once again be a free and independent country in the very near future. Positive enough for you Mr Sutherland?

Craig Murray

Manandboy at 1.12 pm yesterday.

You are absolutely correct. In that Army Generals don’t care at all what their troops think and have excellent salaries, lifestyle and housing provided by the taxpayer. You have come on the perfect analogy for the SNP leadership. Thank you.

fillofficer

rosyth & prestwick failed as they were discriminated against in favour of southern ports, no other logical explanation
resulting in increased costs for trade & travellers
chumps, the lot of us
i hope the eemshaven plan doesn’t suffer the same fate

gus1940

Is there a copy of the Argyll & Bute Report on The 2014 Ref. and how it was rigged available for download?

Breeks


Robert Peffers says:
25 August, 2019 at 10:19 am
@Breeks says: 25 August, 2019 at 9:14 am:

” … “***Extra-regio refers to output that can’t be assigned to region/country, e.g. North Sea oil & gas Source: ONS, Regional gross value added (balanced), UK: 1998 to 2016, Dec 2017”
It seems “North Sea” resource is actually in the territorial waters of Limbo, not Scotland.”

Utter pish! Breeks.

R J Sutherland requested clarification on what “extra regio” meant in the context of the GERS figures, and I referred him to Westminster Government Document which cited a reference from the ONS, Office of National Statistics, which quoted Extra-Regio as detailed above. By convention, that is clarification of how the U.K. Government is defining its interpretation of Extra-Regio.

If you disagree with the UK government’s definition of Extra-Regio, or think it’s pish, then it’s up to you, but take it up with the ONS or the Government. I was simply answering RJS question. Something you had rather rudely declined to do.

gus1940

I am a WW1 History fan and have visited the battlefields 7 times.

I went twice by Superfast and once by the awful replacement Scottisah Viking.

The other trips were twice by ferry from Hull once by Air and once by train thru the tunnel.

If I wanted a repeat trip a ferry to Groningen would be a No No. Just Google ‘Journey from Groningen to Ypres’ and you will see the distance. time and cost for all transport modes.

That is just an example of why Zeebrugge would be a more suitable destination as the same sort of costs, distance and time would be incurred for anybody tourist or freight going to Belgium, France and most of Germany and The Netherlands.

I think a statement is required from those behind the new schemes as to why they propose Groningen and not Zeebrugge as the destination.

Lenny Hartley

Auld Bob, England has its own oil and gas production , oil and gas from Whytch Farm in Dorset peacked at around 100,000 barrels per day and i think is currently half that, there is also the gas fields off Gt Yarmouth and Morcambe, plus whatever is fracked.
That is why Scotland only has 90% plus of UK Production

Lenny Hartley

galamcennalath Re Rosyth ferry, think cost may have been a factor, I used the service twice and it wasnt cheap, I could drive to Dover and save nearly half of the cost. Off course if you factor in wear and tare, convenience etc it makes more sense but unless there are barriers like long queues via dover then
I cannot see it being sucessful until we are 8ndependent.

Joe

@Robert Peffers

Sorry Rob, but you are either gloriously thick or are downright dishonest. Ive already been over how and why the a member of the EU cannot be considered an ‘independent country’.

Through which discussion you side stepped and straw manned like a pro.

Besides the facts of EU membership ive been through EU migration and residency. Ive lived in multiple cities throughout the EU. Ive payed my taxes and social contributions there. There is good reason im back in the UK.

So, eh, no I wont ‘give it up’.

As for my ‘kind’?

My kind is those with lived experience of the subject at hand, an economic education and will for REAL Scottish independence.

I simply do NOT trust anyone who thinks that Scottish independence automatically should mean EU membership. Especially those snakes who wish to distort the failings of the EU and the growing problems

For those who do – get an education, get some knowledge and step outside of the ridiculous bubble of ‘EU good, UK bad’. Its much more fucking complicated than that.

So what kind are you? Given the obvious lies you spout about the EU I can put a word to it.

You are no Scottish nationalist by any stretch of the imagination. You are an European nationalist and a liar. So at least we have assessed of which ‘kind’ we are.

Joe

@ Liz G

I agree. However we are seeing the Scottish government totally abusing the limited power it has in the name of ‘progress, diversity and inclusivity’.

I fear a struggle after independence with the forces who wish to turn Scotland into a post-modern ‘progressive’ shithole. Forces that are international and not short of money.

Anyone who was surprised by the recent issues with trans/womens rights need to ask themselves why they didnt see it coming and some did and what comes next.

Alex Birnie

I think that’s Chris Cairns’ best ever. ALL of the GERS banter, distilled into one small cartoon. A picture is worth a thousand words, but a Cairns cartoon is worth a million…… brilliant!

Welsh Sion

gus1940 @ 11.50 a.m.

Argyll and Bute

I did a bit of Googling for you and hope this helps.

link to thescottishstandard.scot

Joe

Oh yes – i’ll say it now (sorry for a 3rd post): after trans acceptance comes a push to accept pedophilia as a legit ‘sexuality’.

Doubt me? Its already started. Watch for it.

msdidi

gus 1940 @11.50 am
Is this what you are looking for?
link to docs.google.com

Robert J. Sutherland

Heart of Galloway @ 09:11,

I would not rule out an acceleration of the IR2 schedule if circumstances demand it.

Well, I received some funding bumpf from the SNP the other day, and among it was a letter which contains the interesting statement “it’s likely we’ll be accelerating plans for a second independence referendum”.

So while Elvis is still in the building, he might be leaving soon enough…?

Meindevon

Encouraging stories from folk about the changing attitudes of Unionists.

It was said by a couple of these folk that ‘I’m no snp voter/Sturgeon lover but…’ and I’ve said this before but when I’m home I always say to people who don’t like NS or the SNP that this is not about them.

This is about Scotland’s future as a nation whether you vote snp,Labour, Tory or Greens. I say once we get to make decisions for Scotland by Scotland then the other parties can concentrate on Scotland and not London and get votes back from the SNP. Now I know that none of us want Labour back in power but it gives them a reason to consider independence.

Whilst commenting I have my own little anecdote. I was talking to a lovely young lady from Spain who works at my mum’s care home a couple of weeks ago. It brought a tear to my eye to hear her say ‘we need to be independent’ as she thought of herself as Scottish and I was so proud. She has her citizenship so hopefully will stay on but she also said how worrying it was because she couldn’t be 100pc sure which was horrible to hear. Oh and the care home manager was a big Indy supporter too.

Robert J. Sutherland

Cubby @ 10:47,

This is gettig tiresome, but if you insist on being a whiny twat – as is perfectly obvious to all but you, it seems – all I ask is that at least you be an equal-opportunity whiny twat. Which currently you’re clearly not, since you didn’t care to check the gratuitously nasty instigator.

And there’ll be no more hints and dark mutterings then, in this forum of friends, about it being chock full of agents of opposition? That would be just great.

Doug

@Meindevon 2:03pm

Great post.

Meindevon

Thank you Doug. Although it appears I got caught in the middle of another wee and ever more regular stooshie. Could we not take arguments to off topic?

kapelmeister

The preposterousness of this year’s GERS figures attest to the nature of unionist propaganda. Even a quick inspection of the GERS claims by an economically semi-literate citizen would foster incredulity. They were not trying to influence by means of anything resembling an argument.

What unionist propaganda is can best be described using a term coined by the philosopher J.L. Austin. A Performative utterance is speech which tries to promote something as true, not by reason or argument, but by the very fact of the words being said. Clearly much religious or cultist rhetoric could be described as performative utterance.

The annual proclamation of Scotland’s dependency by the Treasury never stands up to scrutiny – this year’s less than ever – but it affords the unionist commentariat the chance to reinforce the message through the use of performative utterances.

Liz g

Joe @ 1.00 & 1.02
I don’t think that the people of Scotland would tolerate the direction your imaging Joe.
At this point in time there’s more danger of that sort of moneyed interests influencing the Westminster legislature.
And I’m sure I don’t need to tell anyone here that it’s the Westminster Government that can impose things on the Scottish People that we can do very little about.
It’s the Westminster elite and establishment that seem to be chock full of unaccountable perverts and the people of Scotland have no way currently of cleaning house!
Therefore the most obvious way forward is to end the Treaty of Union,have the Scottish Parliament constrained by a Written Constitution and answerable to us “The People”.
Then, there is at the very least a way for citizens to curb the Government…… OR, would ye risk leaving it to Westminster to manage these things and “trust” that they’d do so in a way that the people of Scotland wants for the first time in 300 odd years?
So it basically boils down to , if it’s worry about the direction and malign influences on the Law and the Law Makers as we should all be, then, getting yer Government within slapping distance is the only solution…. Aye

vlad (not that one)

Meindevon says @14:19 Could we not take arguments to off topic?
YES, please.

Breeks


Joe says:
25 August, 2019 at 1:00 pm
@ Liz G

I fear a struggle after independence with the forces who wish to turn Scotland into a post-modern ‘progressive’ shithole. Forces that are international and not short of money.

I think the reverse Joe. I think we are crawling when we ought to be running.

I know it’s delusional pipe dream thinking, but when I look at Gaudi’s Cathedral in Barcelona, I ask myself whether or not it would be appropriate for Scotland to undertake such an iconic project to celebrate our emancipation from the Union. Even supposing it would take 150 years to build, why not? Why do those Catalans have all the big ideas?

It needn’t be a cathedral, or rather not merely a cathedral, but why not incorporate a new prestigious concert venue and sports arena for all of Scotland’s National Sports? Why not embrace motor sport in it’s infrastructure and factor in a Scottish Grand Prix circuit, but factor in or pioneer environmental “green” racing, with either or both electric and hydrogen cars? But most important, a National Stadium for the people… an iconic work of devotion. Just I magine Hogmanay and the fun we might have…

The reason I love Barcelona’s cathedral is nothing to do with religion, but because it has embraced the craftsmanship in people’s fingertips and the creativity in their heads. Why shouldn’t Scotland sponsor a 21st century arts and craft led initiative to breathe life into our traditional trades, foundries, quarries and carpentry shops and equip our Nation with a revitalised highly skilled workforce that is equal to the maintenance and upkeep of our ailing 18th and 19th Century buildings? We did last Century… and gave the world Charles Rennie MacKintosh. I promise you, we are not ready for the acceleration in decay that is creeping up on us, and we face losing many of our exquisite Scottish townscapes and “old town” quarters. We need new ideas and innovative solutions… and innovative ways to finance and sustain the training of manpower.

Another notion is a revelation in our attitudes towards business and enterprise. There are vast swathes of Scotland which are rotten areas to do business, blighted by corruption and nepotism, and worse, a forlorn ambivalence that nothing will ever change or improve. But say Scotland did something different… Say Scotland instigated an anti-corruption police squad, but as a country, we went much, much further… Suppose we did for Scottish business what the NHS did for Scottish Health? I don’t mean we throw money subsidising failing businesses, but before they fail we can send in a team to try to help, to make sure their business features in the right short lists and framework agreements and local problems and difficulties can be examined. The NHS can’t cure every ill, and not every business would survive, but surely we can better their odds with a business NHS.

I read last week that scientists in Canada are pioneering the removal of Hydrogen from fossil fuels like oil without releasing CO2 to the atmosphere. Just imagine the potential of all Scotland’s oil being absolved of it’s Carbon Footprint? Scotland, oil rich and carbon zeroed, with a Norwegian style Oil Fund and a sister Renewables Fund, and best of all, Scotland’s wealth at last being invested in the life skills and fulfilment of our people… and all of what we do is done with environmental awareness and concerted effort to regenerate Scotland for it’s wildlife as much as it’s people…

Why, why in God’s name are we sitting here waiting for another’s Nation’s Brexit disaster plan to squander yet another generation of Scottish creative ingenuity and potential, when we could and should be pioneering the way to live in the 22nd Century in complete harmony with our planet and it’s resources?

Fk off Boris. Fk off Farage. Fk off Rees Mogg. Listening to you all is like sticking my head in a 19th Century gas oven. You’re not Dickensian, you are worse than Dickensian, because at least the 19th Century knew what quality and “Clyde built” actually meant. It built railways, ships and bridges; trains, planes and automobiles,… craftsmanship in churches, High Streets, houses and public utilities. Your modern greed is just soulless greed for greed’s sake. All that you build is throwaway trash.

The Scandinavians and Europeans are already pioneering all electric Ferries. Aren’t we Scot’s a wee bit embarrassed it isn’t “us” doing that? But no, we’re still under dark skies of Mordor, fighting to save the very life of our Ferry Companies from the necrosis of UK economic strategy.

Get off your knees Scotland. The society we have known is in its death throws. We must fire ourselves, and our kids, with imagination and productive ambition, and prevent the Eton bred Establishment stealing another generation of Scotland’s future.

Let nothing stop Scottish Independence. Nothing.

Rob Royston

Gus 1940, 1150am. Re the Argyll and Bute 2014 referendum report. Copies and links were attached to a reply to a Craig Murray tweet in the last few days.
It was Aug 20th about Electoral Commission Obstructionism and was by Pints @johnfmca. About the fourth reply, if you dig in you get various options to download.

Hamish100

JO

“You are no Scottish nationalist by any stretch of the imagination. You are an European nationalist and a liar. So at least we have assessed of which ‘kind’ we are.”

Is the heat getting to you? If the UK is in the UN/ World banking organisation is it independent?

Scotland can be taken to war, have nuclear weapons on its soil without our wishes. This is not the EU that imposes on us but the UK Government. This a Fact.

CP Scott- “comment is free, but facts are sacred”.

Joe

Narrative v facts:

Look at the responses to this tweet from orangemanbad (Donald Trump):

‘The Dow is down 573 points perhaps on the news that Representative Seth Moulton, whoever that may be, has dropped out of the 2020 Presidential Race!’

Find the Tweet (if you can stand to go on orange mans twitter account) and take a look at the replies. You would think the sky is falling on everyones head, right?

So i run some numbers for the last 20 years on the Dow Jones daily returns.

What is a 573 point drop? Using the closing price of the 22nd of the August v the closing price of the 23rd August (25628-26252)/25628 = -2.43%

So what does a 2.43% drop in the DJI mean?

Statistically, based on historical data (Yahoo Finance) anywhere from a daily move up of 2.24% down to -2.19% is within 2 standard deviations (normal daily activity).

+3.34% to -3.29% is within the 3rd standard deviation (not normal)

-2.43% is just within the 3rd standard deviation. Just outside of normal activity.

In 2018 the DJI fell further than this 4 times.

Why is it a big story now? Could it be that the party of the people (Democrats) have a vested interest in trying to beat the economic drum of doom in order to stop a Trump win in 2020? As analysts have noted – this is the one thing that could stop him.

Could it be that its more than just Bill Maher who rather see ordinary people financially hurt in order for the people he supports to gain power?

Look at the comments. Given the numbers ive shown above you can say that these people are almost rabid.

How does this translate to the UK? Scotland? EU?

Narrative. We live in a world where narrative is built by political interests, the media repeats it, mindless partisans repeat it again and again and truth can go to hell along with the well being of ordinary people

On the one hand certain interests are telling people that a Trump presidency is bad for them while taking measures that will HURT ordinary people to get Trump out of office. A market runs on consumer/investor confidence which explains the U.S medias rhetoric.

Apologies for the U.S example but its easily available data.

We are in a situation now where Scotland could become an independent country at a time where people are literally propagandized into what to think. There is no honest media outlets. There are just international interests, political parties and the media whores that work for them.

In such a climate can anyone say that Scotland taking its natural resources and human capital into a FAILING quasi-superstate such as the EU (or with anyone else) is automatically a good idea?

Really?

defo

Sorry to hear you don’t like the reality of geo-political blocks Joe. It isn’t the ideal of unity, but outside wishful thinking mate, which is least bad?
Pick one, ‘cos isolationist fantasies aren’t credible.
And on our doorstep too. 🙂

Lochside

Joe says:
24 August, 2019 at 8:53 pm
Being a small resource rich nation is like being a beautiful young caucasian woman in a MalmĂś suburb alone at night.

Tell me Corporal Joe, before you go off duty, what does this particular statement imply?

Dr Jim

I think England should continue to make all of Scotland’s decisions, in that way when they keep shredding us we’ll always have someone else to blame rather than ourselves

What’s the point of running your own household when someone else can do it for you, much better to whine about injustice than actually do anything about it

Yes I’d much rather be an insignificant nobody in a large country than a significant somebody in a small country, what’s the point in being noticed, it can only lead to doom and destruction because everybody else is untrustworthy so those in charge of Scotland will be too

Whether to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous arseholes or dae it yersel

kapelmeister

Ever since he became Premier Boris Johnson has wandered about with a happy and complacent look. You wouldn’t think he was at the centre of one of Europe’s biggest political crises which visibly aged his predecessor.

Instead his face looks like that of a wee Labour cooncillor in a state of joy because he’s been made a provost.

sassenach

Dear dear, Britnat Joe, is really starting to sh*te himself (in a diarrhoeaic way!! Maybe he’s been recalled to barracks for latrine duties

We must be winning.

Cubby

Robert J Sutherland@2.05pm

You are certainly getting tiresome in the way you cannot accept you are wrong and resort to childish insults like “whiny twat” and once again more deflection from the point I am making. Sad.

Also I never said and have never said Wings was ” chock full of agents of opposition.” Please stop just making stuff up.

I’ll finish on a positive note again – Scotland will once again be a free and independent country in the near future.

JMD

Heart of Galloway

Your positive and motivating comments are like a breath of fresh air.

Hamish100

Jo … we are already in a failing state called the Uk. Seems strange you are so attached to it. Do you like nuclear weapons?

cirsium

@Gus1940, 11.50
You were looking for the report on postal voting at the IndyRef – link to archive.is
The questions it raised were never answered.

Thanks Heart of Galloway for your comments – straws in the wind.

Proud Cybernat

O/T

I’ve a wee Twitter poll going so if you have a Twitter account, feel free to cast your vote:

link to twitter.com

(Proposed) WoS Party currently polling at 41% behind SNP on 44%.

twathater

@ PC 4.41pm I’m not twatter member but had a look at comments below poll , if the comments are an indication of mindset I give up .( FFS wait another 2 years , cross party committee to decide direction , no candidates or manifesto , WOS party not needed ,wait and see , ) complacency abounds no sense of urgency , Breeks , Lochside , RJS , Liz G ,Ian B , Thepnr , Capella get your names down for the WOS party

Cubby

Joe@1.02pm

You are stacking up as one of the most odious people to pitch up posting their disgusting crap on Wings.

Brian Doonthetoon

The Return of 10000 Flags For Yes

Tartanpigsy’s fundraiser is now sitting at ÂŁ1,797 raised of ÂŁ12,500 target, from only 76 donors.

If only 5% of Wings’ readers donated ÂŁ1 each, he’d be home and dry.

link to gofundme.com

Clapper57

What did the Cow Traffic warden say to the Cow driver whose Cow car was sitting on double yellow Lines.

MOOve it.

HERD it before….fine… I won’t MILK it…as I don’t want any BEEF with anyone on here…

cynicalHighlander

Clapper57

Bullocks

Clapper57

@ cynicalHighlander @ 6.11pm

Are you saying my joke was a ‘a male domestic bovine animal that has been castrated and is raised for beef ‘ cynicalHighlander ?

How UDDERly rude of you………I’m MOOved to tears so I am so I am…..

I’d STEER clear of critique in the future if I were you…Hee Hee

Unionist Media BDSM Club

From that Scotsman piece on independence requiring not one referenda but two:

“If the Scottish Government was to produce a “detailed plan”, such as the White Paper in 2014 which was largely accepted as the basis of the future relationship with the UK, this danger could be avoided. But if such proposals “are not fulfilled”, resulting in a “material adverse change” in circumstances, the Independent Commission on Referendums says this would trigger a second referendum.”

We can of course be confident that the Independent Commission on Referendums immediately demanded another indyref when The Vow was ‘not fulfilled’, right? After all, it’s the *principle* of the thing that concerns them. Fair play and all that.

Right?

cynicalHighlander

@Clapper57

You Know were you can Stirk that and my Burghers are bigger with Horns. LOL

Clapper57

@ cynicalHighlander @ 7.31

As in BIG MACS……Lol..

cynicalHighlander

@Clapper57

The Urbanites will of thought that’s Offal. quits

Thepnr

So less than a month ago on 29th July, Johnson was telling anyone who would listen that there would be no discussions with the EU unless they scrapped the backstop.

A little more than 3 weeks later he was meeting Merkel and Macron not in London but in Berlin and Paris to push his case for abandoning the backstop which still hadn’t been scrapped but that’s a by the by.

Now today he has a 20 minute meeting with President of the EU Donald Tusk, supposedly to tell the EU that he intended withholding ÂŁ30 billion of the settlement until there was progress on the future trade arrangement between the UK and the EU. He never mentioned this to tusk at all in their meeting.

You have to come to the conclusion that the man is a liar, he plays to a domestic audience and has the right wing Tory press falling over themselves to report how “Boris sticks it to the EU” and other such moronic crap.

Why aren’t they reporting that he failed to stick to his refusal to meet the EU to discuss Brexit until they scrap the backstop? Anyone think they will tell their readers tomorrow that he bottled it when it came to telling the EU that the UK isn’t going to stump up the bill for leaving?

I really don’t see him being around for too long, I really don’t. He wouldn’t even be there if it wasn’t for the shitiest press in the world. The UK MSM.

Thepnr

Link to Johnson bottling it in his meeting with Tusk.

The U.K. prime minister headed into one of his key meetings of his first major outing on the world stage — a 20-minute head-to-head with Donald Tusk during the G7 summit — on Sunday against a backdrop of newspaper reports claiming he would tell the European Council president the EU would lose out on up to £30 billion worth of U.K. financial obligations in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

But when it came to it, the issue didn’t even come up during their talk on the sidelines of the summit in the coastal French town, according to EU officials.

Indeed, for a prime minister who let it be known during his leadership campaign that he would retain the U.K.’s full £39 billion divorce bill, Downing Street’s acceptance that some money must be paid even in the event of no deal represents a climb-down of sorts.

link to archive.fo

Thepnr

Article from a German news website by the way LOL

Golfnut

I may be mistaken, but was the question regarding delivery of the Vow not asked in a poll, and a majority rejected the assertion that it had been delivered.

Dave McEwan Hill

cirsium at 4.33 pm

Thank you. Everybody MUST read this. The postal vote figues in five constituencies (at least)at the 2014 referendum in Scotland are demonstrably impossible to achieve
The figures are not in dispute

archive.is/GhrEF

Robert Peffers

@: Joe says: 25 August, 2019 at 12:54 pm:

” … Sorry Rob, but you are either gloriously thick or are downright dishonest. Ive already been over how and why the a member of the EU cannot be considered an ‘independent country’.
Through which discussion you side stepped and straw manned like a pro.”

Ach! Joe. You’re not very good at this debating thing are you?

If you were you would not only have accused me of being gloriously thick or, of being downright dishonest but would have accused me of being both.

I’ll tell you what, though, I do know how to punctuate the English language properly. Seems you do not.

… Besides the facts of EU membership ive been through EU migration and residency. Ive lived in multiple cities throughout the EU. Ive payed my taxes and social contributions there. There is good reason im back in the UK.”

Here is a wee hint for you, Joe. I spent 50 years working for the MOD, (Admiralty), as an industrial Civil Servant. As such we could apply for jobs in UK Naval bases throughout the World. Whatever makes you imagine you have seen more of the World than I have?

” … So, eh, no I wont ‘give it up’. I actually didn’t expect you would Joe but it was always worth a try.

” … As for my ‘kind’?”

Oh! Yes, Joe, “your kind”, that’ll be right wing Tory bordering upon Fascism, and I am not the only Winger who thinks you are, “That Kind”, and who has said so.

… My kind is those with lived experience of the subject at hand, an economic education and will for REAL Scottish independence.”

Is it not a great pity the economic educators you mention failed to teach you basic English grammar and punctuation?

… I simply do NOT trust anyone who thinks that Scottish independence automatically should mean EU membership.”

Excuse me Joe, but where have I ever claimed that Scottish independence automatically meant also EU Membership? Desirable, yes, automatic, no.

” … Especially those snakes who wish to distort the failings of the EU and the growing problems …

Now there you go again, Joe, when and where have I ever claimed the EU was perfect? For that matter where have I ever suggested the EU didn’t need improved?

… For those who do – get an education, get some knowledge and step outside of the ridiculous bubble of ‘EU good, UK bad’. Its much more fucking complicated than that.”

Now, Joe, where are you getting these, “facts”, from? You have no idea of my education nor of my knowledge of the World outside Scotland or indeed from outside the whole United Kingdom.

” … So what kind are you? Given the obvious lies you spout about the EU I can put a word to it.”.

Now, Whoa! There, Joe. What might be those, “Obvious Lies”, about the EU that you accuse me of spouting?

You really have to do better than that, Joe. Name the lies you imagine I have told about the EU. Name the lies or admit you are wrong.

” … You are no Scottish nationalist by any stretch of the imagination. You are an European nationalist and a liar. So at least we have assessed of which ‘kind’ we are.”

Now it may have escaped your notice, Joe, but it is not possible to be both a Scottish Nationalist and a European Nationalist.

There is a very good reason for that because Scotland is one of Europe’s oldest nations and Europe itself is not a nation but is composed of not only many nations but there are several different unions of nations within Europe.

I’d have thought an Educated man like yourself, at least you claim to be educated in economics, would have known that Europe is not a nation and thus it is not possible to be a, “European Nationalist”.

Did your education not include a bit written by the Englishman, John Donne who wrote, “Devotions”, in (1624)?

He wrote:-

“No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.” “

Col.Blimp IV

Dave McEwan Hill

It should be fairly easy to check the names/address of people who were dead when the voting papers were sent out against the marked up register.

Actual foul play that everyone would understand, could then be proven beyond doubt.

Which would carry much more weight than speculation about a possible conspiracy, based on partisan interpretation of a morass of statistics that most will find difficult to follow.

Ealasaid

In-D-Car Gordon Ross 25.8.19 – New In-D-car page a roaring success

link to youtube.com

Robert Peffers

@Joe says: 25 August, 2019 at 1:00 pm:

” … Anyone who was surprised by the recent issues with trans/womens rights need to ask themselves why they didnt see it coming and some did and what comes next.”

For a self professed educated person, Joe, you seem very ignorant of how political parties operate. They don’t just have one brain between their members and that means all political parties have factions within them.

Wile the main body of the party usually remain true to the party’s main aims there will be factions working away who have, what is to them, more important objectives.

They beaver away on their own main objective ignoring the party main objective. That is until the rest of the party sees what they are up to.

Which seems to be what was happening in the SNP – that is until the main leadership stepped in and stopped them in their tracks.

Which is where the likes of you comes in and tries to keep the matter going in order to damage the party and its main aims. Fact is, Joe, that the leadership called a halt to the matter by moving it to the back burner where it very well may fizzle out.

In any case I get the impression that the case is not quite what the MSM is leading us to believe it to be – they do, after all, have an interest in damaging the party and independence but facts are facts, the matter has been halted at least for the time being.

So just why are you attempting to make out it is still going?

Lenny Hartley

Well Well Well, who would have thunk it, India had its own version of Gers and it “Unique” accounting practices long before Scotland.
link to aljazeera.com

TJenny

Proud Cybernat – your ‘wee’ poll’s looking good. So far:

1024 votes

SNP 1+2 = 42%

SNP 1, WOSP 2 = 43%

Waahay. 🙂

Col.Blimp IV

Robert Peffers says:

“…there will be factions working away who have, what is to them, more important objectives.”

Was membership of such factions not outlawed back in the early eighties?

I have a vague memory of the expulsion of several prominent members who refused to toe the line on that matter.

IMHO the trans nonsense was not sneaked in the back door when the leadership’s attention was elsewhere, they just failed to realise that a substantial number of supporters would see it as one retreat from reality more than they could thole, in the name of party unity.

And for once made their voices heard … hence the climb-down.

Liam

“Boris Johnson loses Brexit bite in Biarritz”

A very apposite headline as, in French, ‘Bite’ means ‘prick’ (cock, peter, knob, dong… whatever…).

Dave McEwan Hill

Col.Blimp IV at 10.05

You obviously haven’t understood the main point There were five constituncies in Scotland which registered a 97% turnout on the postal vote.THESE FIGURES ARE NOT IN ANY DISPUTE.Such a turnout is unprecedented and impossible.
I repeat
THESE FIGURES ARE NOT IN ANY DISPUTE.
The report makes it clear that such a turnout cannot be validly achieved.

The European Commission determined tha the UK postal voting system was “a recipe for large scale fraud”.
They are correct and anybody who thinks that the UK Government woudn’t do such a thing is guilty of naivety on an alarming scale.

Col.Blimp IV

Dave McEwan Hill

I read the report and agree that turnouts on that scale are ludicrous.

But it is not me that has to be convinced that electoral fraud would have to be perpetrated on fairly large scale, for such results to be achieved.

9999 out of 10,000 would not dream of reading the report under any circumstances and most will come to a knee-jerk conclusion of “sour grapes”.

The authorities will take no action on this unless their hand is forced.

Col.Blimp IV

Anyone who has had much to do with the election process, will be well aware that there is scope for cheating and have witnessed or have been privy to anecdotal evidence of fraudulent personal, proxy and postal voting and malpractice by staff.

Dr Jim

Sky news tells us that because England was so wonderful and won the cricket sporting event and that combined with the lovely heatwave that the whole of *Britain* feels ready to face anything and Boris Johnson and Brexit seems much less of a worry now for a nation invigorated

Now if that doesn’t tell anyone that Scotland must must get ourselves separated from this bunch of infantile morons who think that a game of bat and ball in the sunshine determines a country’s future then there’s something wrong with our heads just as much as there’s something wrong with theirs

Oh and some stupid 12 year old Tory *journalist* lassie thinks we’ve got a cheek moaning about the Amazon burning because they’re only trying to grow their economy just like everybody else, we know there’s climate change, but still, she says

Fireproofjim

I recall that there were some English elections for councils (in Birmingham I think) where the postal votes were shown to be false so that the election had to be re-run and several people ended in jail.
We really need a foolproof method for Inderef2.

frogesque

O/t

Briefly mentioned on BBC news but local reports, pics and bids show Woodmill High School in Dunfermline is still a massive blaze and the fire looks as if it has spread to the main building.

Firefighters still trying to get it under control but it looks really bad. Some doubt also about the water supply being inadequate and houses in the vicinity have no running water.

Col.Blimp IV

Dr Jim

First Worlder’s excel at vilifying the good people of Bongobongoland … for doing the same things that we did at various times in the past.

Deforestation is just one of the many things that our forebears got up to that helped make us what we are today.

The Amazon is not “ours” as Macron claimed yesterday, any more than the gold that the Conquistadors murdered the Incas and Aztecs for, all those years ago was.

Liz g

Robert Peffers @ 10.02
Re. The Comment that ye canny be a member of the European Union and be independent…. Or some such nonsense (playing catch up here)
The European Union has an – Article 50 –
A mechanism by which any member of it can leave.
This makes it a safe Union to join.
If the world turns and EU membership no longer serves Scotland, then, we have Holyrood trigger artical 50.
There is no issue here!

I would go farther and let the lessons of Unions in Scotland’s History serve us……….

I would argue to have included in our written Constitution, —— That Holyrood has our consent to sign the people of Scotland up to any International Treaties that they, ( Holyrood ) consider to be in our best interests.
But Holyrood is Constitutionally bound to put ANY and ALL memberships of International Bodies before the People of Scotland every 25/30 year’s. No Exceptions. Failure to do so will Void the Treaty in question automatically ——

Which would mean no one born into any Union is denied a choice about it.. That’s a real Constitutional Legacy for future generations, and at this place and time in History there’s not one International Body or Institution which could see our position on this as unreasonable!
NATO,the EU, the UN will all have to understand and accept that Holyrood is Constitutionally forbidden to sign the Scots to anything for longer than 30 years.

Compare and Contrast the 1707 Treaty of Union?
3 Centuries???
Three Hundred Year’s???
Even the Fairy Tales thought 2 hundred years was more than enough time to keep a curse active!!!
A Union that in ” real world ” ” real time ” is threatening Scotland’s Independent Nationhood!
Only Unions with a “Sun Set” clause offer any kind of protection for Scots (Europe’s oldest people’s)….
No get out, No interested… Can be Scotland’s position and currently the EU is no threat to that stance!

How are ye keeping these day’s Robert ?

Liz g

Twathater @ 5.07
Why thank you,that’s quite a complement, and quite illustrious company you’ve included me in… 🙂
Thing is twathater,while I do what I can for my Country and will serve her where I’m able… Me and the Rev don’t agree on a few things.
The last thing he would need is me.
If a Wings party were to happen they all need to be on the same page,so that it is clear what they stand for/or against.
I’m no a team player.
I’m kind of myopic about the Constitution and if “anyone” no matter who, put a toe across the line with it I’d create merry hell.
So.
Consider… Just one Example….
I’m hoping that we have —- No Nuclear Weapons on Scottish Soil —– written into our Constitution.
The Rev makes a case (and a good one ) to rent Faslane and Coleport for a time to Westminster.
I’d not consent to allowing the Westminster Government to do on Scottish Soil something we’ve forbidden Holyrood to do.
But and it’s a big But.
I’d not argue this from behind him and undermine him just giving the media something to spin.
I’ll argue it upfront…..
Ye can’t do that in a party… Which is why I’m no a member of any party…. Still willing to be Queen of Scotland though,but only for 2 hundred year’s 🙂 no 3 that’s jist out of orders, by the way,so it is 🙂

twathater

Nae bother Liz g , but that is exactly why I put your name up with the others ,you tak nae shit yet you respond sensibly and rationally ( sometimes ) your vision of a future Scotland includes empathy and compassion for our citizens and I am sure you would ( ahem ) not be afraid or cowed to voice your opinions
There are lots more wings commenters who IMO also fit this description , but I was feeling rather frustrated after reading some of the comments btl on proud cybernats twatter vote

I have said MANY times that I support Stu’s proposal for a wings regional party but I think it should be formed NOW not for the 2021 election

I watched in D car Gordon Ross earlier and he was suggesting that from info he had received , that the SNP SG were considering fighting the next election seeking a further mandate for a referendum , they already have 3 how would another make any difference
This is the problem with who to believe and how many rumours are believable , it’s common sense not to highlight your moves to your opponents but patience is not endless

Liz g

Twathater @ 2.16
Hey Twathater, my friend…
I can’t answer for the SNP,other than to say If they are building frustration and demand …. It’s working…
But I have no real way of knowing…
Anyhoo…
If it is any consultation….
I have spoken to a few friends who are willing to step up..
And, they are exactly the sort of people we need, I can get behind them,totally, and I will….
They are the sort of people who can compromise better,much better than I could.
Not because they’re weak but rather because they see the big picture….
I’m with you in that we need this party anyway … But no matter what … Nothing changes without Independence is the understanding…
I’m talking of people who see and understand the stuff I’m saying about an independent Scotland,but also understand that we won’t get everything that we imagine.
I can’t do that… I want it all…
But I wiil/would support and trust them to deal from the best interests of Scotland in all that they do…
Like I said…. If we – have – to “Rent Out Faslane and Coleport” I want the Rev to do the negotiating over it.
And I don’t want someone like me spoiling it…
But I do want someone like me making pretty damm sure that Westminster keep to the terms and conditions of the lease!
We all have a role ….. And you do too!
X 🙂

Liz g

Twathater @ 2.16
Respond Rationally…… SOMETIMES….
Oh do tell 🙂 🙂 🙂
I’ll be over here makin like I don’t know what ever ye mean!!
🙂

Sinky

Pinstripe in Herald financial pages with another column saying how useless an independent Scotland would be.

Ahundredthidiot

prick on telly from aberdein considine blaming house sales uncertainty on 2014 vote, which are up (apparantly) despite brexit looming. So, brexit good, scottish independence, bad.

Breeks

twathater says:
26 August, 2019 at 2:16 am

I watched in D car Gordon Ross earlier and he was suggesting that from info he had received , that the SNP SG were considering fighting the next election seeking a further mandate for a referendum , they already have 3 how would another make any difference
This is the problem with who to believe and how many rumours are believable , it’s common sense not to highlight your moves to your opponents but patience is not endless…

It’s not just the 4th mandate that alarms me, it’s the implicit notion that a successful election returning a solid SNP majority in either Holyrood or Westminster, or both, is presented as a decisive achievement, when in fact we are just revisiting victories we have already won before but which were insufficient to deliver Independence.

A landslide SNP victory in Westminster wasn’t enough, and even the “next to impossible” outright majority at Holyrood is an achievement we’ve already delivered, and it wasn’t enough.

It troubles me that SNP success in a General Election is considered a viable option and route to Independence. If our government was unwilling to recognise the sovereign distinction of Scotland in a UK Referendum, then doesn’t that set an awkward precedent for a similar distinction in a “UK” General Election?

Every page in the Battle Plan seems like a stale rerun of a strategy that has already led to failure. If winning 53 out of 56 Westminster seats isn’t enough, doesn’t it set the bar that anything less than 53 seats will be inadequate because it’s been inadequate before, and yet if winning 53 out of 56 seats wasn’t enough, what possible difference would it actually 54 make, or even a 100%, 56/56 of SNP seats? Haven’t we proved democracy alone won’t be enough?

Even if we somehow defeat the UK Establishment and actually get our way over holding another referendum, isn’t that “victory” too just another rerun of somewhere we’ve already been, where we sit back and endure our Scottish democracy being distorted and manipulated by the British Establishment’s indoctrination and propaganda?

We’ve been there, done that,… didn’t work. We need to do “something” differently next time around, or we court disaster,…. again. I know I sound like a broken record, but the decisive change in our strategy MUST be centred around Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty.

Boris Johnson reckons a pound spent in Croydon is worth more than a pound spent in Strathclyde. The irony of that notion is that a vote returned in Scotland actually IS worth more than a vote returned in England, because a vote in Scotland is sovereign in Scotland and represents the will of a sovereign people which cannot be lawfully overruled.

We don’t have to proactively “do” anything with Sovereignty beyond proving it exists. We need neither a mandate nor a majority for it. We can readily defeat Brexit, and defeat the Union too, merely by disputing and shooting down their bogus usurpation of sovereignty, and finally fight the battle where we actually win.

Given the imminent catastrophe of Brexit and the hollowness and impotence of previous electoral success, why in the name of God are we still refusing to play the trump card that is sovereignty? If not now, in this existential jeopardy that our Nation is currently in, then in God’s name when???

manandboy

The Scottish Government’s input on Brexit might be thought of in certain circles as being influential if not exactly decisive. The antidote to that belief is to read articles written outside of Scotland, like this one, through which it is possible to get a glimpse of a much more European perspective. Make no mistake, Brexit will be ‘sorted’ by the 27 Member States of the EU, not by Westminster, with its haemorrhaging economy and its political disarray. And certainly not by Scotland.

link to irishtimes.com

“Talk of integrity of union way beyond sell-by date.

Johnson speaks of Belfast Agreement’s ‘delicate balance’ but is ignorant of it. ”

The article begins : “The contempt for Boris Johnson was palpable in Edinburgh last week during a discussion at the city’s book festival on Brexit and Ireland.

Expressions of empathy with Irish frustrations were hardly surprising given that 62 per cent of Scots who voted in 2016 were against Brexit, but the disdain expressed for London-based Tories has intensified recently in tandem with their crude sloganeering about being prepared to triumphantly exit the EU without a deal.

As pointed out by the European Movement in Scotland, before he became prime minister, Johnson declared “there is no plan for no-deal, because we’re going to get a great deal”.”

Abulhaq

Nationalists crave bread, the SNP offers cauld kale.
link to thenational.scot
link to thenational.scot
Small wonder alternative sources of sustenance are being sought.

Dave McEwan Hill

Breeks at 7.31

So what is it exactly that we do? Do tell.
(Apart,that is, from using our sovereignty in having a referendum once we know the outcome of the Brexit shambles – as promised).

starlaw

If SNP called a referenda now , what would we use for polling stations Yoon councils would not open schools then what ?

Abulhaq