Red flags and klaxons
Posted on
April 05, 2021 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Hindsight is 20/20, readers, but perhaps we ought to have paid a little more attention to the article below back in 2015.
Because as the old saying goes: when people tell you who they are, believe them.
Who found that one?
Bloody hell, they were telling us since 2015 and we just didn’t accept/believe it.
Now I am scunnered
Smith never disappoints – wee shitey – infinity and beyond
Even as far back as 2015 they were showing their real colours of cowardice but even then we didn’t realise just how CORRUPT they were , and how vile and repugnant they really are
Fresh from a Twitter spat with another SNP imposter saying very much the same sickening things, it is evident the infiltration of counter-independence agents is extensive.
When they stopped having a cause – independence – they had to find another cause – self remuneration.
We talk about the Tories forcing Brexit on Scotland and the dreadful damage that its doing to our economy and will continue to do. But Sturgeon has no intentions of taking Scotland out of this union which is damaging Scotland’s economy, effectively she’s prepared to destroy our economy to keep us in this unfit for purpose union as are the Tories.
Sturgeon doesn’t care about the people of Scotland, the above paragraph should open your eyes to that fact. However she often speaks of the people will decide this or that, when infact its she that’s deciding it for us. Covid and the now Sturgeon friendly BBC gave her a platform to shine on, and the damage that Brexit will inflict on Scotland in the long term will give her years and years of excuses as to why not to hold an indyref, when infact she could’ve held one around 2016 and saved Scots years and years of economic suffering that Brexit is bringing and will continue to bring.
Sturgeon fooled most of us for a while there, and we are and will continue to pay a heavy price for that mistake.
It’s insignificant and yet he was affecting to be bawling his eyes out about it when it then happened.
How does wailing about a light being “left on” tally with “it’s so insignificant there wouldn’t really be any automatic justification for another independence referendum”?
I hope the EU have spared their bulbs, given his apparent disinterest in an imminent return to the fold!
Before I get shouted at by folk who don’t like the EU, I’m not that fond of it either but I’m not the one who made a big deal of blubbing about in front of its Parliament!
I used to think that it was the strategists who needed a boot up the arse since 2015 but it turns out that there was a strategy of no Indyref all along and they have excelled in achieving their goal.
My apologies to the strategists as it seems others should have received a metaphorical boot up the arse.
The instant the UK was out of the EU, Scotland should’ve been out of the UK and the SNP are guilty of a shameful dereliction of duty.
Covid-19 came along at the best possible time as an excuse with Sturgeon on it faster than a retiring Labour MP grabbing an ermine jacket. It’s going to be incredibly hard to vote for these bstrds but it needs to be done.
It frightens me that he could be the next SNP leader… then again, maybe that would actually help Alba…
.
Strange you should post this just now Stuart.
I was talking with one of my SNP 1&2 friends and asked if she remembered Nicola Sturgeon going on about trans issues.
We both recalled 2015 as the first time the new First Minister Sturgeon started pushing her personal agenda on this.
Red Flags and Klaxons are spot on.
On a lighter note, I managed to persuade another one of my friends about the SUPERMAJORITY idea.
It was less forensic a conversation as I’d wanted. The received point she was stuck on was we could lose 4 SNP MSPs on the list. Best case rejoinder… with SNP1 & Alba2 we would be likely to lose 12 Tory MSPs and lose 3 Libs, and lose 3 Labs and lose the obnoxious body odour advocate eau naturel Ross Greer from the TransGreens Twittler Youth (unwashed oxter battalion).
It is strange actually talking with fellow INDY friends about this, albeit on FaceTime and Messenger etc.
The commonest success I am finding is.., “I WILL VOTE SNP1 IF YOU WILL VITE ALBA2” may be working very well.
As a wise person said, “what’s not to like”.
We lose Adam Tomkins, Annie Wells, and a whole dose of Tory MSPs.
Absolutely no reason whatsoever to vote for them in May. Apart from not wanting independence, they have no intention (far less the competence) to do anything of any use within the powers of the devolution settlement either so not sure what they’re for any more. Hate to say it but the tartan tory label is more apt by the day.
EU declares bankruptcy after bill from electric company.
Spokesman declares “Leaving the light on for Scotland took longer than we imagined”
And yet they still had the bloody cheek to set up the Indy Ref2 “ringfenced”crowdfunder. There are just no words to describe them.
This of course should all have been incidental given the rate of support for Indy in many, many, polls.
Timing is of the esssence and they got it all wrong.
Smith’s bio is like a “boys own” cv for recruitment by MI5. Often wondered if this is still the profile they look for
When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
SNP 1 for devolution Alba 2 for ref.2
I wasn’t for the 2nd indy ref at this time either though, we had had the referendum only 1 year previously and the vote was lost. At that point it was about accepting the result and moving on.
The SNP mandate came into being with the 2016 brexit result. Up until then there was no talk of going for indyref 2, which I have no arguments with.
On the other hand though, the lack of progress despite the numerous mandates since then… that I take issue with
“We wiz robbed” right enough, by Daddy Smith and his band of viscous juveniles, who slithered his way onto another gravy train. My question is, have those at top always agreed with him or was there a sleekit operation to add more carriages to the train. Maybe we should call it Scotpiercer
annie says:
And yet they still had the bloody cheek to set up the Indy Ref2 “ringfenced”crowdfunder. There are just no words to describe them.
————-
Good point annie.
“He said his view was widely held at the top of the SNP”
So aye, why did the SNP do a fundraiser for 600k, promising to ring fence the proceeds. Seems like they are talking out of two sides of their face at the same time.
And then all the money that was supposed to be ring fenced got spent on something else… yeah it really does not look good.
A suspicious person might think this was simple fraud.
Not much different to raising money publicly to treat your cancer and then it turns out you are not ill at all and you pissed the money away on lavish holidays and bling.
In 2015 we had literally just lost
We couldn’t be getting another indyref that soon and our people would not have expected it. The result had to be respected and unionist promises to fail
2015 is not 2021.
“We wuz robbed” – Ok he has a point, that was unhelpful.
“Gripes about bbc bias” – BBC bias is BBC bias it happens every day are we to shut up and eat our cornflakes?
“No shortcuts” – no one asked for shortcuts we only ever asked for a coherent sensible plan
“45% is still just 45%” – yes until you implement a plan then campaign and put it to the voters
“I don’t think there’s an appetite beyond the 30% that really want to see this happen” – let’s exaggerate support in the wrong direction and just give up then.
“I don’t think the people want it to happen any time soon” – Except the 45% that just said they do and the expected EU ref remainer support on top.
“He’s [Salmond] always going to do his stuff” – This dismissive unfriendly language actually sounds rather sinister now knowing what we know.
“I think there are lots of things we can do with enhanced devolution” Eh? What enhanced devolution was this? That’s yoon patter right there.
“I don’t see Brexit as anything more than a significant change to the settlement upon which the people of Scotland voted No.” Yes, that’s the point Alyn this is a huge thing not a small thing. Anyone playing that point down is in the wrong party.
This isn’t “patience” and “pragmatism” this is prevarication and planned procrastination.
Agreed, Ross
So there’s the snp high-heedyins giving the tories all their catchphrases.
You know what would piss off the high-heedyins the most ? Guaranteed ?
.
SNP 1, ALBA 2
Yep, they have been at it since 2015. It is what I have been trying to get through to people for seven years: that they concentrated only on the NO vote after 2014; and, basically, abandoned us. Everything was done that could possibly be done to reassure NO voters that independence was off the table. Another indyref was never, ever in their plans nor in Westminster’s from 2014 onwards.
The indyref results told us quite distinctly that the country was divided between indigenous, independista Scots (UN usage) and the Scottish Unionist/rUK alliance, the latter alliance having stymied independence. That was the point when the SNPG should have set up an independence unit and looked for over routes out of the Union. Matters were made much worse in 2016 when many of those same NO voters voted Leave. It is always pointed out that many independistas also voted Leave, but they constituted around a third. Two thirds were Unionist/rUK NO voters. Double whammy.
Not once, to my knowledge, has the SNPG ever actually told NO voters that their colonial votes were and remain illegal according to the UN Charter to which the UKG is a signatory. There exists no right to stymie a people’s march to independence. Quite the contrary. It is considered to be beneath contempt and redolent of colonial oppression, repression and suppression. It is also contrary to basic human rights.
Also, in 2015, Stonewall started to infiltrate the SNPG, and the trans lobby ensured that we would never get independence through the auspices of the SNP for as long as they had influence in the party. This was never just about Nicola Sturgeon’s devolutionist instincts; it has been a combination of like-minded people coming together to destroy independence by delaying it forever, without actually saying so; they have held that dangly carroty thing in front of us long enough. There is absolutely no doubt that they will do so for another five years, if we let them, while they push through the most divisive policies our society has ever seen – far more divisive than independence itself, ironically.
“Weel, ye ken noo”, says it all really, no?
Albas crowdfunder needs to pick up around £3 grand a day over the next 11 days to meet its target. Can it be done?
Disappointingly, I think not.
There it is, in black and white. I don’t believe they have changed their tune since, only talking about a hypothetical indyref 2 to placate their supporters and give the impression they support indy. This attitude has been present in SNP circles for a long time – I have heard it argued, in order to support Chairman Nikla, of course, that the SNP must wait until the people are ‘ready’, and there is something like 65% yes in polling.
In other words, they have no intention of driving the issue forward, persuading people and demonstrating the many reasons to gain independence asap. They seem to think it is like the weather, they just have to wait until it is favourable to proceed, as if it is nothing to do with them, and Boris and the tories have pissed people off so much. In other words, they have no convictions of their own, or desire to promote the core cause of their own party.
That explains a lot, particularly their reluctance to even discuss it at conferences, let alone in public. Evidently they think it will scare people away – from continually electing them to the power they now presume is their entitlement, and certainly their jobs for life. Independence is for them just a vehicle for getting elected, and not a cause for which they will sacrifice their career and retirement plans. In addition, people like Nikla and her inner circle get to boss the country, passing legislation to satisfy their own agendas, for which nobody has been asked to vote, and thus promote themselves as international progressives of the gender debate. They have a platform and other people’s money to advance their middle class student politics, as well as their neoliberal economics and neoconservative foreign and domestic policies – no badly needed land reform here, just the acquiescence to big landowners, crony capitalists and all the rest of the abysmal politics they have already demonstrated.
Truth is Sturgeon has always preferred Alyn Smith and Tom Gordon to rodents to do her dirty work…
for there are some things you just can’t get a rat to do.
Wow just look at Alba’s fundraiser – shooting up. Perhaps donations are coming in from overseas e.g. France?
Mist
Why are you here?
Ross: that was precisely the time when a proper independence unit, tasked with finding other routes out should have been set up. I am still not in favour of a second indyref because it can still be lost. It was the fact that they did nothing except hand the field to the NOs that really got me. The second indyref idea cam to the fore to gull people into believing they were prepared to do something about Brexit, when, in reality, they had no intention. By 2016, Stonewall and the trans lobby were well-established. Even there, it appeared to be a movement for making life better for trans people. Aye, that was another con trick. I believe that, if the faithful ever discover (and come to believe, of course) the reality of what has been happening for seven years, their rage will know no bounds. Even Labour didn’t do this to its membership.
Independence and doing the real work for Scotland’s progress are not incompatible. Indeed, one without the other is impossible.
Craig Murray’s latest piece is not helping me talk myself back into SNP1. 😀
Gay Abandonment!
it obviously is as reported here, independence is a threat to
an incompetent extrovert’s moments in the limelight and a very
nice salary with pension plan.
Confirmation of the Indy Ref fund being frittered away to nothing
by paying massive legal costs for big mouthed clowns like Smith.
We are still stuck with SNP 1 Alba 2 until we expel Westminster corruption
from Scotland and then we can kick the WokeNP right out the door.
The Sturgeon is telling the SNP and its members and the Yes movement now that there is no short route to Independence, this is why the Alba Party is so important.
The Independence movement is traveling at 100 miles per hour and the SNP has got the hand brake and the brake and clutch down to stop any form of referendum or vote on Independence.
Here’s what will happen after May without the Alba Party, Sturgeon will ask for a section 30 order and it will be refused and then she and the UK will make some sort of excuse together why it can’t be taken to the courts if Johnston or the UK PM refuses a section 30 order and the SNP will try and fudge it over with what ever excuse the UK tell Sturgeon to tell the Scots and the greens will simply go along with what ever Sturgeon tells them as long as they get money for some stupid project.
History repeating its self all over again and we keep doing it to our self’s by trusting people that just do not deserve our trust.
Reading that article puts the fraud of the Indy fundraisers in a whole new light.
It was all about keeping the HQ careerists wage bill paid by misleading Indy supporters.
Alyn Smith a.k.a. “Coach” (Sturgeon United FC)
So, on the one hand he was saying there was 45% support for Indy, and on the other, he thought that would only turn into a 30% vote in an Indyref2…. and then his party went on to dangle repeated carrots for Indyref2 in order that very large number of voters would put them in power!!!
Mixed messages?
Not quite getting the Odius Alyn’s logic there for some reason, other than he has more faces than the town clock.
Vote for us and we’ll grant you Indyref2 (there’s no support for Indyref2, no-one would vote for it).
Thing is, since its now aparant that those at the top of the SNP are really, really more into Devolution than Indy… they’re really not very good at it.
From Devo Max, to Devo Nowt in 6 years thanks to the Internal Market Bill.
Alex, I can only do this once, even for you. And come Indy, there’s going to be a reckoning.
Both votes Yes.
Anyway is it ok to use the word Odius for both Alyn and Robertson? It fits them both so well.
@Steve The Pirate 5.05pm
The issue surely is not particularly in quibbling about how many years post 2014 is an appropriate interval for holding #indyref2, it’s more about what the party does in the time that elapses, and how it positions itself to take advantage of circumstances that might allow it to pull the trigger on a campaign with a realistic prospect of winning?
The SNP has been found wanting in all departments: all but the most slavish acolytes can see it, and it is pointless arguing with such people. I’m sure many of us thought the day after the No vote that we’d blown it for a “real” generation…or at least for a good 10-15 years. That all changed after the 2015 election, but the party proceeded to squander its advantages on the altar of the Gold Standard S30 sanctioned vote, the assumption we needed a consistent >60% in the polls, the quixotic attempt to stop brexit twinned with a failure to get a “decent” deal out of the result, the damp squib of the Growth Commission, the failure to test the legal case for holding a referendum without a S30 Order.
All these policy failures were bad enough of course, but they were as nothing in comparison with the poison within the party, as the twin evils of TRA entryism and the institutional corruption apparent in the attempt to destroy Alex Salmond. Those remained hidden to too many of us until it was too late.
What we have realised too late is that the SNP is now essentially a devolutionary force, not really one that wants to forge the Better Nation many of us dream about. Perhaps the party has been “New Laboured”? Many of those who would naturally have expected cosy sinecures to fall in to their laps in New Labour appear to have travelled seamlessly into the SNP. That’s explain a whole lot!
So. The scumbags Sturgeon and Freeman are bringing ING in Fascist covid passports.Coercing the public into taking part in a vaccine experiment and normalising full on health Apartheid. Anyone who thinks that’s alright is on the wrong side of History. The private health are company Bupa do not cover damage done to individuals by the latest covid “vaccines” because they are classed as a medical experiment. That’s Bupa saying it not me. Health “crisis” has been used to snaek in the most draconian system of social control we have ever faced in this country. We are run by insane ideologues who will stop at nothing to acheive their aims.
Spinning a PCR test at 45 cycles rather than the Who recommended 30 cycles is guaranteed to produce the results the Government and the World Economic Forum wants. I’m sorry people but I’m afraid we have bigger fish to fry than Independence. You lot enjoy your coffee. I’ve had it with parochial politics.
So there it was in black and white. Like many at the time, I guess I just didn’t take it seriously, thinking it was a ploy to hide ‘Nicola’s cunning plan’. We now of course know, that no such plan existed or was even considered. Indy supporters were knowingly strung along.
I think people like Alyn Smith are more of a hindrance to Scottish democracy and the restoration of independence, than London ever could be.
Now we know where the rubbish is coming from. Now we know, we will not forget in a hurry. Alyn Smith.
Thank heavens the Alba party has been launched. A party focussed on independence – something which the SNP are no longer interested in, except as a‘whimsical discussion topic’ over posh dinners in the west end’s finest eateries.
https://www.albaparty.org/
Mist001, maybe some people prefer to donate via the Alba Party website. I chose to do that, rather than via the Crowdfunder website. As someone not on the electoral roll, I did so in the expectation that it will be easier for the party in keeping records. The last thing we need is a random somebody overseas donating too much money. Others may just not like donating via third-party websites.
I get it that it would be nice to see the party reach its goal on the Crowdfunder. Nobody can dispute the total then unless, Heaven forfend, they accuse Alex Salmond of recycling the same fiver every two minutes.
If Scotland does manage to gain independence I hope the idea of joining the EU is dropped. Anyway without the UK’s massive net contribution the EU will not want net recipient new members. There are enough of them already. Scotland would not be in a position to be a net contributor ,so our” friends “ in Brussels are likely to tell us to bugger off. Very politely I’m sure.
Here is a scary thought….
Suppose Sturgeon, bouyed by another electoral victory, does ask Johnson for a S30 order…..and to everyone surprise, he says Yes?
If I were him I would because I think he would win it it, because
1) as Wings demonstrated, absolutely no work was done since 2014. Sturgeon is right that independence will only come when a majority of Scots want it, but that majority has to be campaigned for consistently, with answers to awkward questions honestly provided, and that, at least what what I understand down her in the smoke, simply hasn’t happened.
2) In particular, there are no official answers to the key questions which downed the vote in 2014, in particular the currency question and over-dependence on oil.
I would be astonished if Johnson’s agents in your country haven’t been keeping him appraised of the SNP’s ‘missteps’.
So imagine a second referendum defeat…that really would down independence for a generation. (Look at Quebec).
If I were Scots this scenario would worry me
Even by Westminster standards, Alyn Smith is a particularly yeasty twat, with an astonishing level of self regard that is only matched by his incredible ability to waste oxygen and claim expenses.
Where do these people come from? Is Porton Down running some sort of (Cabana) “Boys from Brazil” type experiment on Scotland?
Most people, if they got their arse handed to them in public by Richard Tice (not even Nigel Farage, Nigel’s Trigger-from-Only-Fools-like sidekick with the charisma of a cardboard toilet roll tube) would have the decency to walk into the sea and never return. But Alyn (can’t even spell “Alan” without being a pretentious dick) Smith keeps clinging on to the nether regions of the body politic like a scorching case of herpes.
What are Nicola Sturgeon’s Storm Troops working on at the moment? Boris Johnson’s Storm Troops are giving the English two Covid tests per week….available to all; you just have to ask.
Is something like this too complex for the worthies of Holyrood to organize…or is it just because it is election time?
Red
There is definitely something Boys From Brazil going on.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-seekers-of-fury/#comment-2640575
Some very good points btl. We’ve been taken for a ride by the devolutionary SNP since Sturgeon took over.
Sturgeon has not put any preparation in for independence.
Deciding on what currency to use is key. The euro would be a big mistake as it would severely limit our freedom of manouvre. The rump UK could deny us Sterling.
We should start making overtures.
Perhaps the Swiss Franc is a possibility. This would put us within the orbit of the SNB which has plenty of scope for bond issuance.
Pixywine 5 April, 2021 at 5:51 pm
“So. The scumbags Sturgeon and Freeman are bringing ING in Fascist covid passports.Coercing the public into taking part in a vaccine experiment and normalising full on health Apartheid. Anyone who thinks that’s alright is on the wrong side of History. The private health are company Bupa do not cover damage done to individuals by the latest covid “vaccines” because they are classed as a medical experiment. That’s Bupa saying it not me. Health “crisis” has been used to snaek in the most draconian system of social control we have ever faced in this country. We are run by insane ideologues who will stop at nothing to acheive their aims.
Spinning a PCR test at 45 cycles rather than the Who recommended 30 cycles is guaranteed to produce the results the Government and the World Economic Forum wants. I’m sorry people but I’m afraid we have bigger fish to fry than Independence. You lot enjoy your coffee. I’ve had it with parochial politics.”
Bye Bye. Try not to come back until the medication has had its prescribed effect. If it wasn’t for your comments on Sturgeon and Freeman I might think you were actually Paul Kavanagh’s spying account. https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1214498/general-election-news-nicola-sturgeon-nhs-deal-us-firm-contract
Stephen.
An independent nation can use whatever currency it likes, Dollar, Franc, Zloty. That includes the Pound Sterling, whether rumpUK likes it or not.
When someone of gravitas tells you Scotland cannot use the Pound (or Dollar etc); know you that you are being lied to.
The friendly sassenach,
I’m not sure you understand what sovereignty means otherwise you wouldn’t be asking about what currency we will use but rather who decides what currency we use.
I’ve already answered this question for some of your compatriots already but I’ll answer it yet again for others who may be unsure of what currency we will use.
The currency we will use the day after independence will be the £ Sterling.
There will be a transition period and until that transition period ends it will be the £ Sterling.
How long that transition period will be is down to negotiations but I would guess 3 to 5 years.
I freely admit I could be wrong but again, the main principle is that it is that it would be a decision by the Scottish People and their representatives.
You’re right Mr Wings – we should have noticed this far, far sooner but better late than never and thanks for your work, yet again.
It does answer the question I had about SNP conscience and putting Mr Salmond in jail. Mr Smith’s merry band of ‘hey-hoers’ seem incapable of a moral concept and think only in terms of self-indulgent hedonism and the wherewithal to achieve it. Putting Mr Salmond in prison would constitute a prank for that lot and Saint Nic’s conscience and its allies would be appeased by the prattle of the simple-splined.
I don’t agree with those who still think Scotland isn’t ready fro independence. I believe the next year is the time to move.
Boris Johnson is driving the UK into the ground and the sooner Scotland gets out from under, the better.
Mac – great minds.
Stephen says:
5 April, 2021 at 6:17 pm
Sturgeon has not put any preparation in for independence.
Deciding on what currency to use is key. The euro would be a big mistake as it would severely limit our freedom of manouvre. The rump UK could deny us Sterling.
The UK can’t stop us using Sterling. There’s literally nothing they can do on that front (even if they wanted to, which is doubtful when you consider that one of the biggest beneficiaries of Scotland remaining in the Sterlingzone would be England).
There are 164 national currencies in the world, so setting up a sovereign Scottish currency isn’t that difficult. To put it into perspective, fake internet currency BitCoin is now worth about $600 billions despite mainly being used to commission furry art on the dark web.
Heaver
There would be strings attached to Sterling which may not be palatable.
Being able to issue our own bonds is key.
The Swiss Franc is very stable and interest rates would be low.
Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham,the first president of the Scottish National Party in 1934,
said in 1930,
“The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls.
Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”
`our real enemies are among us` how prophetic a sentence.
Stephen.
Describe the strings.
Can we please get the anti vaccine nutters off of here? It’s just embarrassing now.
The subject of currency was explained by Andrew Neil and Andrew Wilson in detail.
Essentially, the BoE has said explicitly that Scotland cannot use the pound Sterling.
Mind-you, there’s nothing actually to stop Scotland from ignoring him.
If Scotland does that and uses the pound Sterling, who is the lender of last resort, who sets fiscal policy in Scotland, who sets interest rates…..?
Andrew Wilson reckoned that using the pound Stirling would be required for 10-years…maybe longer.
Both agreed, it’s not an ideal scenario.
wee willie @ 6.02
‘Anyway without the UK’s massive net contribution the EU will not want net recipient new members. There are enough of them already’
I think the European powerhouse, Germany, will definitely want Scotland back in the EU in some fashion. A country whose economy is based on exports requires hassle free access to foreign markets.
As Mark Blyth told us, if you regard the EU total economy as a ‘zero sum game’ and Germany are over producing, then it has to be balanced out with some member states underproducing or running a deficit.
The problem as identified by Blyth, arises when you sign up to use the euro and succumb to the ECB. The message to an independent Scotland is clear, have your own currency and printing press.
You also have to remember the EU isn’t just about economies, it’s about people, defence, environment, education etc.
Stephen at 6.17
The rump UK could deny us Sterling.
I don’t think that’s correct. My understanding is that no one can prevent us using Sterling, the former Governor of the Bank of England said as much during the first referendum. The main issue for me is that we have our own Independent central bank, what the coins in my pocket are called is secondary.
Heaver
Having Sterling would keep us within the orbit of the BoE and thus constrain our ability to issue debt to cover our spending. The mechanics of the issuing of our bonds would be determined and to some extent controlled by the BoE.
It would argue that it would also put us in a weaker position when it comes to negotiating on our share of the UK national debt.
And I would bet that our interest rate would be lower with the franc making our cost of borrowing lower.
Rev Stu this site is the only place in Scotland that does not have wall to wall idiocy.
the friendly sassenach @ 6.02pm
‘over-dependence on oil.’
What do you mean by this ?
Al-Stuart says:
5 April, 2021 at 4:53 pm
.
Quote:-
“As a wise person said, “what’s not to like”.
We lose Annie Wells, and a whole dose of Tory MSPs.”
She’s quitting due to death and rape threats.
See your Cherry thinks the same as well.
So your Okay with that then. Figures.
Scot Finlayson says:
“Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham,the first president of the Scottish National Party in 1934,
The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls.”
Oh really? I don’t think so.
But hey, we all make mistakes, except that political leaders seem to make more than most.
ALBA 2
@Stephen says 5 April, 2021 at 6:17 pm
“Sturgeon has not put any preparation in for independence.
Deciding on what currency to use is key. The euro would be a big mistake as it would severely limit our freedom of manouvre. The rump UK could deny us Sterling.
We should start making overtures.
Perhaps the Swiss Franc is a possibility. This would put us within the orbit of the SNB which has plenty of scope for bond issuance.”
“The rump UK could deny us Sterling” 1: Of course the rump UK would deny Scotland ever being in a UK£ “Currency Union”, why would Rump UK allow Scotlands /borrowing/spending to affect the UK when it was making no contribution in Taxes to the UK ?(Think harder) 2: The UK cannot stop Scotland “using the £” but that puts Scotland into the realms of a Banana Republic where Scotland as a supposedly Independent country has its Interest rates and monetary policy made by the Government of another country, this system is called Sterlingisation and it wouldn’t end well for Scots or Scotland.
“Perhaps the Swiss Franc is a possibility” Bejesus?? 60% of Scotlands trade is with UK using the £ and 18% of Scotlands trade is with the EU using the Euro and yet you want us to adopt a Swisscurrency that would see hit twice over with currency costs with both Imports and Exports twice over ? What next Chocolate Coins ?
O dear , muscleguys comments and answers gone and I was going to have a pithy comeback lol
Wee bung mr c , would have been more but my dil’s freezer decided to pack in today 🙁
Thanks for all the knowledge you bring
America went to war because of a threat to the ‘petro/dollar’.
Scotland’s a major producer of oil.
If Scotland was to utilise either the Dollar – it might get support from the USA.
Or make a Scot currency on a par with the Norweigian currency – could also have clout.
With 60% of European oil reserves in Scotland’s territorial waters – the idea that Europe would not be pleased to see us back in one form or another is just silly. The fact that it would piss of Britain/England at Westminster would just be the icing on the cake.
And for the greens in us all – using that 60% to ensure the 25% renewable potential was harnessed would also be a good thing.
Good job Alex is on hand to guide on these types of things – its a bit out of wee Nicla’s league… she can’t even find the £600,000 stuffed down the sofa.
Thank goodness for Alex. Max the Yes.
rumpUK will go down on bended knee, pleading that Scotland continues to use £, to prevent a collapse of said £. Not that we’ll ever hear of it, not for 50 years anyway.
Also NATO. Will offer a big wet sloppy sweetener to stay in NATO and not rent out our submarine and airport facilities to the Russians or Chinese.
Also EU. Imagine the kudos for the EU if Scotland, after a mature and sensible debate and referendum, voted to join the EU. Also they would not, could not, insist we adopt the Euro.
Red says 5 April, 2021 at 6:05 pm
“Even by Westminster standards, Alyn Smith is a particularly yeasty twat, with an astonishing level of self regard that is only matched by his incredible ability to waste oxygen and claim expenses.”
Well Alba are certainly going to have a contender for that crown on both counts https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/ayrshires-snp-at-war-over-20174675
Hi Mist001 at 5:30 pm
You typed,
“Albas crowdfunder needs to pick up around £3 grand a day over the next 11 days to meet its target. Can it be done?
Disappointingly, I think not.”
I have
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/albaparty/backers#start
in a tab in Firefox. I refresh it 2 or 3 times a day.
When I looked at it just now, it was sitting at a ba’hair over £15,000. That was either last thing last night or first thing this morning.
I refreshed the tab.
It is now at £18,348.
That’s over £3,000 in less than 24 hours. Good enough for you?
SNP accepted the lie that was Westminster’s Indy Ref 1
Next they promise another Indy ref if any major change to our circumstance
such as being ripped out of the EU against our will. Well it happened?
We were promised Indy ref 2 when actually out of the EU. It happened.
We were promised Indy last year and promised it for this year.
Next we were promised Indy when Covid is under control.
Well we are averaging one Covid death per day, where is Indy ref 2?
Now we are promised Indy Ref 2 after the economy recovers and the Tories run out
of tax payers money to hand their supporters.
The boy who cried wolf only did it the 3 times to lose all credibility.
He has more credit than the SNP.
Independence first and SNP lazy, lying, woke wasters straight on to the dole immediately after!
Ah ffs PayPal kicking me out again
Don
As I said I don’t believe that Sterling or the Euro will be good options for an independent Scotland.
The key thing is to have a friendly central bank backing our currency and an accepted bond issuing process.
As soon as we inherit a portion of the UK national debt we will need it.
As regards your arguments on trade and currency conversion this is a necessary corollary of the choice if currency.
Why, given the abhorrent level of corruption, lies and abuse of position can anyone advocate voting SNP1??? Return the likes of Hamza, Black etc?? How can anyone continue to support such a rag bag so called political party? They need to be brought down and their ranks disinfected!!
The idea of another 5 years with Sturgeon at the helm and her Merry band in tow, fills me with fear as it should any sensible individual. Independence but at what cost??
Don’t get hung up on what the currency will be as that will be decided after independence. After independence the Irish Free State continued to use sterling until it brought in its own currency from 1928. Even then this ‘new’ currency was tied to sterling until the break in 1978. SNP 1 / Alba 2.
manandboy says:
5 April, 2021 at 6:49 pm
Scot Finlayson says:
“Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham,the first president of the Scottish National Party in 1934,
The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls.”
Oh really? I don’t think so.
But hey, we all make mistakes, except that political leaders seem to make more than most.
ALBA 2
I don’t think you realised the irony of your posting.
What’s that about self awareness?
Heaver – all new EU members are legally bound to join the Euro as soon as they meet the criteria. It’s not optional.
NATO – why the hell would we want to be in NATO? We have no enemies. We have no interests in Afghanistan, Kosovo or the Middle East. We have no reason to fight the American regime’s wars. Scottish people should not be asked to die fighting in neocon adventures. NATO should’ve been abolished in 1991.
My MP Tommy Sheppard did a beautiful Freudian slip after the last GE. He thanked us all for voting for him and vowed to do his best for us over the ‘next 5 years’ in Westminster. They do tell us, we just don’t listen, as you say, Stu.
I believe it to be a moral imperative to take votes off the Greens. I passionately believe in environmental issues and were the Greens to focus on them, I would be inclined to support them. They don’t care much for the environment and have heehaw interest in independence, but they are obsessed with identity. Whether it’s Barbie’s malign influence or a general malaise within the party, it’s rendered them toxic and untouchable.
There’s a strong suggestion that St Nicola made approaches to the Greens and offered them some form of power-sharing proposal post-election in return for support in the no confidence motion. It would certainly explain Barbie’s deranged, splenetic, incoherent diatribe condemning the inquiry process. As such, how delicious it would be to rob Harvie, Greer et al of their shot at glory. Moreover, even with a majority (or supermajority) there may come a time that St Nicola will need support. If the Greens aren’t available, where will she go? To the Tories, Liberals or Labour? How about Ronald Villiers? She knows the sensible road to take and, if she’s only prevented from doing so by bitterness and spite, she’s not the leader she pretends to be
Just checked yesterday’s BBC news statement on Covid Deaths.
They said Covid Death figures for Scotland and England were down to 10.
I can see that there were no Covid deaths in Scotland yesterday when they
broadcast this?
In real democratic nations where the truth is supposed to be broadcasted
the news reads only England suffered Covid deaths and there were 10.
Is that true or did you hear it on the BBC?
Why are so many of you surprised?, The majority are yearning to be back in the EU , you have a leader who is living a lie about her sexual habits who welcomes anyone to be a Scot, just as long as they’re not Scottish by blood. She’s having a hard on over sexual deviant males (not men) cocks in frocks & loves nothing better than Pakistanis filling parliament. You all voted for this, you got it!. This is what far left gets you, give it a decade and you will hear nothing but Urdu. If you think Salmond is worthy of your vote you will get more of the same. They are all members of the same club, globalists. If they were not you wouldn’t get to see their name on a ballot.
Stephen.
“The key thing is to have a friendly central bank ”
“As soon as we inherit a portion of the UK national debt we will need it.”
Nations make their own rules. Also, rumpUK owes Scotland a thousandfold.
Red says “all EU members have to join the euro. FALSE.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168
Heaver
Well said
I’m, perhaps, being a tad naive here but bear with me.
As far as I’m aware, the “Scottish” note-issuing banks – Clydesdale, RBS and BoS, have around £4 Billion lodged with the Bank of England, to cover their notes in circulation.
If a Scottish Central Bank was set up immediately after independence was voted for, one way or another, could that £4 Billion not be transferred to the new Scottish central bank as the guarantee of the “new” Scots Pound – which is already in circulation?
The notes in our pocket would still look the same and buy stuff, as they do now.
I’m willing to learn why that idea wouldn’t work…
Several ex-provosts back the ALBA party.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/04/05/former-provost-backs-alba/
Anna, Red is correct. EU nations do have to join the Euro once they meet the criteria. I believe Sweden has managed to fail in this task since they joined the EU.
Or succeed, depending on how you look at it!
That ALBA crowdfunder page has kicked on a lot in the last couple of hours.
Could be a false dawn but I am also sensing an internal collapse of the anti ALBA narrative (spun by SNP HQ) to the grassroots SNP members and independence supporters.
Like all these things it is very gradual at first, a few rocks slipping down the hill at odd moments… and then slowly… it turns into a landslide.
It is because fundamentally the idea of a Supermajority is rock solid, everything else starts to move around it.
Do you know why it is a genius plan? Because even an idiot can see it.
Someone once said, ‘there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come’.
@ Brian Doonthetoon:
I hope they do it and I too, check every day but I don’t think they will. As it stands now, they’re looking at raising just over £2,700 per DAY for the next 10 days. They need 100 people to donate a minimum of £27 each per day. Like I said last night, I don’t think the numbers are there, but we’ll see.
@ BDTT at 7.01: anent your report the Alba fundraiser has raised over £3,000 in the day…
…it has raised an average of over £6000/d since it opened. The target of £50,000 over 14 days means an average of £3,571/d was required. The daily amount needed for the remaining 11 days is down to £2,909.
I don’t know why anyone would be worried. We know that many donations went direct to the party – this crowdfunder is merely one source. I imagine there’s some hefty backers who will be called on as and when too.
Hi Red at 7:07 pm
You stated,
“Heaver – all new EU members are legally bound to join the Euro as soon as they meet the criteria. It’s not optional.”
You’re haverin’. No country is COMPELLED to use the Euro.
From the link below…
“In Europe, the most commonly used currency is the euro (used by 25 countries); any country entering the European Union (EU) is expected to join the eurozone[3] when they meet the five convergence criteria.[4]
Denmark is the only EU which have been granted an exemption from using the euro.[3]
Sweden has also not adopted the Euro, although unlike Denmark, it has not formally opted out; instead, it fails to meet the ERM II (Exchange Rate Mechanism) which results in the non-use of the Euro.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_currencies_in_Europe
C’mon the Scots Pound!
Anna – did you even read your own link?
No, it isn’t false, it’s literally in the text of the Maastricht Treaty.
The EU’s own website says:
All EU Member States, except Denmark, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as ‘convergence criteria’.
But maybe you think they’re lying for whatever reason.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/enlargement-euro-area/who-can-join-and-when_en
Red.
Euro is “negotiable”.
Our host explained it a year or two ago. Sweden. Or Norway. Doesn’t matter: if the EU wants you enough, they’ll bend the rules for you.
Anyway, a big question like that will have a big fucking debate and referendum. How about we just get independent first?
SNP 1, ALBA 2
@Skip_NC 5 April, 2021 at 7:17 pm
“Anna, Red is correct. EU nations do have to join the Euro once they meet the criteria. I believe Sweden has managed to fail in this task since they joined the EU.”
No its not for that reason , Sweden has a get out of jail free card as an early member of the EU just as the UK itself did pre-brexit.Poland i think is still not using the Euro either but it certainly will have to in due course as it was a later member.
Ah Mr Smith, the MEP who emotionally cried for the EU to leave a light on for Scotland before slipping off home to a sinecure as the Stirling MP.
And all this talk of another referendum. And the call in 2017 for hypothecated donations to fund a referendum. All just spin and lies, downright lies.
And with the current police investigation into the disappearance of circa £600,000 of ring fenced donations these statements support utterly the concerns that folks have about what has been going on in the SNP high command.
No wonder last year Sturgeon declared she was committed to being First Minister for the next five years. Ponzi merchants, soiled sordid goods passing themselves off as something they were absolutely not.
But you know what, Alba will deliver the heart and soul back into the movement. The days of the coterie of chums are coming to an end. Both the ordinary decent members and elected representatives of the SNP and the elected representatives of the new Alba party know it.
Good stuff Rev Stu for digging this information out. This type of background is exactly what honest straightforward people need to understand what has been going on round about them.
Thank you Stuart Campbell. Thank you for your continued good work. There is a reason, a very good reason why your Wings Over Scotland is as respected and has as many readers as it does.
Order of the Bath for you good Sir!
Boris is going to piss a billion a month on mass testing up against a wall. Scotland should get over a hundred million in consequentials.
You would have to be a rank amateur if you could not redirect a piddling 600 grand back into SNP coffers.
Looks like the SNP are no loger the vehicle for indy. Another 6 years of that lot and we will looking at the abolition of scot’s law.
Stephen says:
5 April, 2021 at 7:16 pm
Heaver
Well said
.
Well haud ma baws and colour me surprised.
Thought you were a doomtroll.
@Heaver 5 April, 2021 at 7:26 pm
“Red.
Euro is “negotiable”.
No its now compulsory, chapter 17 of the rules for joing quotes it “New Member States are also committed to complying with the criteria laid down in the Treaty in order to be able to adopt the euro in due course after accession. Until then, they will participate in the Economic and Monetary Union as a Member State with a derogation from the use of the euro and shall treat their exchange rates as a matter of common concern.”
https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership/chapters-of-the-acquis_en
Don.
Yeah yeah.
If they want us, they’ll bend the rules. And they do want us.
John Martini – “Another 6 years of the SNP and we will looking at the abolition of Scot’s Law.”
It’s not very often I find myself agreeing with you but this is the most profound statement on these pages today.
Our lawyers are, almost without exception, a bunch of vainglorious and greedy arseholes anyway.
@Heaver 5 April, 2021 at 7:26 pm
Our host explained it a year or two ago. Sweden. Or Norway. Doesn’t matter: if the EU wants you enough, they’ll bend the rules for you.
Doh , the EU won’t be bending any rules for Norway as Norway isn’t an EU member at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#:~:text=Norway%20is%20not%20a%20member,1992%20and%20established%20in%201994.
Skip_NC says:
5 April, 2021 at 7:17 pm
Anna, Red is correct. EU nations do have to join the Euro once they meet the criteria. I believe Sweden has managed to fail in this task since they joined the EU.
Yes. Btw the EU has taken a softly softly approach on this in the past for realpolitik reasons. There’s no reason to assume they will keep doing so forever, given the centrality of the Euro to the project of “ever closer union”. The post-Covid landscape will probably see another round of integration, which Merkel and Macron were going to push for anyway.
Idk why so many people who think they’re pro-EU refuse to believe the EU when it openly explains its own rules and objectives and is kind enough to publish them on the internet in English. It’s like converting to Catholicism and assuming the Pope is joking about this “sin” business.
@Don 7.17 pm
There is nothing compulsory about it. Accepting that you’ll join at some indeterminate point in the future is trivial. As the Swedes have shown, it’s perfectly feasible to simply defer membership indefinitely by simply arranging your fiscal policy such that you never meet the ERM criteria. Neither party really has any interest in pushing it.
This was extensively discussed during #indyref1: the Swedes poo-pooed the idea then, but anti-independence types still regularly trot it out as gospel. The Swedish government – and indeed most Swedes – are quite happy to keep their own currency.
Another former SNP Provost…
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/04/05/former-provost-backs-alba/
Heaver
?
I was just following the Rev’s post and agreeing that Sturgeon is not serious about independence and that the evidence for that is that she has not made any real preparations.
Hello from Lincolnshire. So, the Alba party is polling 4%. Either Mr Salmond’s face or reputation gang’s afore him, or whatever you North British say. Either way, he’s got a big hill to climb.
Given that your odd way of returning MSPs may give him a few seats in the Scottish Parish Council, oops, I mean the Scottish Parliament (which, in appearance is reminiscent of a Greek house. Half finished to avoid property tax. You so obviously want to join the EU you’ve adopted the look of their buildings) you Nats may get the ‘supermajority’ which is apparently needed for independence.
All very well, but only 46% of Scots currently say that they would vote yes in indyref2. Which isn’t going to happen anyway, because Big Bad Boris is actually the boss and decides what ultimately happens north of Northumberland.
Sorry if I sound like a troll but someone really does need to administer a big dose of reality into the faerie world of indy fancies. In North Britain.
Don.
Uh-huh.
Heather
I tried to put in a smiling emoji but all I got was a question mark.
Just imagine that it’s there
That article neatly explains why they wanted rid of Salmond. He wasn’t a threat to Nicola. He was a threat to the devolution that the SNP want to claim as the settled will of Scotland.
Salmond is not a devolutionist. He wants full independence , as he sees devolution as a huge con. He used it as a stepping stone to independence , which is what it akways was.
We simply have to stop this madness before it’s too late. We need ALBA more than ever.
Also like the FM has a personal beef
“
John Martini says:
5 April, 2021 at 7:30 pm
Looks like the SNP are no loger the vehicle for indy. Another 6 years of that lot and we will looking at the abolition of scot’s law.”
Good to see that some people are now talking about the currency Scotland would use after Independence and also about a Central Bank.
When I mentioned this a week or so ago all I got was abuse. One individual replied along the lines of ‘did I think that the Scottish soldiers fighting at Bannockburn were thinking of currency’? We have to look forward not back.
A clear way forward on issues like these are mandatory if the undecided, like me, who nevertheless want Independence, are to be convinced.
Keep the discussions going. The pound sterling is a non starter as this would mean that Westminster still retains control over a lot of monetary policy/interest rates.
Re ALBA crowdfunder every time I have tried it I get this page has timed out refresh page. Already donated to ALBA no problem so something amiss with that crowdfunder.
willie says:
5 April, 2021 at 7:28 pm
Ah Mr Smith, the MEP who emotionally cried for the EU to leave a light on for Scotland before slipping off home to a sinecure as the Stirling MP.
Let’s be fair to Alyn.
If you lost a job that paid over £90,000 a year, plus generous expenses, plus a no questions asked €320 a day extra whenever you showed up in Strasbourg for champagne and canapes, plus an excellent pension, plus being chauffeur driven and fawned over by flunkies and treated like a princeling without having to do much of anything normal people would recognise as “work”, you’d be beeling too.
Bojo’s new English mass testing.
I wonder if some millionaire Tory supporters have landed
that blank cheque contract too?
Tory race to buy shares in the test kit manufacturers,
Postal services, the private clinics producing the results.
I think the dictionary needs a new name for the filthy wallowing in it
stinking rich who just got richer.
Me an yon left hook…..
Ignore the RH type.
Dinna rise.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
5 April, 2021 at 7:16 pm
I’m, perhaps, being a tad naive here but bear with me.
As far as I’m aware, the “Scottish” note-issuing banks – Clydesdale, RBS and BoS, have around £4 Billion lodged with the Bank of England, to cover their notes in circulation.
If a Scottish Central Bank was set up immediately after independence was voted for, one way or another, could that £4 Billion not be transferred to the new Scottish central bank as the guarantee of the “new” Scots Pound – which is already in circulation?
The notes in our pocket would still look the same and buy stuff, as they do now.
I’m willing to learn why that idea wouldn’t work…
One small hiccup – Virgin has taken over Clydesdale Bank lock stock and barrel.
I typed “GYPE”.
Doh!
@manandboy,
`“The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls.
Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”
it wasn`t the English that voted 55% in the Scottish referendum (there was some) in 2014,
it was 55% of people living in Scotland (i won`t call them Scots)
“OUR REAL ENEMIES ARE AMONG US, BORN WITHOUT IMAGINATION.”
anyhoo , nice to see you back from wherever you were.
ALBA2.
`
Captain Yossarian:
You cannot use sterling and also be independent. In fact, you would be ‘managed’ by Westminster more than you are now.
Also, you cannot either use the Euro or a new currency, without serious and long term austerity.
You have been told this time and time again. Good luck lads, you will need it.
Interesting that the ‘arched eyebrow’ thought there was only ‘30%’ in favour..when in fact 50% of the electorate voted SNP that year in the G.E. and with the Green votes giving us 51.3% of the vote and thus de facto the basis for a demand to dissolve the Union de jure. In addition, as if the point needed emphasised, the SNP membership had swollen by 100,000 new adherents within the year of the bent Referendum.
Just to remind readers for the umpteenth time…the convention in the H.O.C. was that for Independence to be brought forward, by the SNP or any other Indy party, it would have to get the majority of SEATS. Remembering the fact that the UK constitution is based on Representative democracy i.e. SEATS not votes. However, in 2015 the SNP and the Green votes satisfied both seats and voting criteria for Scottish Sovereignty to assert itself. If the SNP hierarchy had as usual demonstrated its dubious belief in Independence, it could have had a confirmatory plebiscite of residents only voters after the dissolution had been demanded.
The problem was that Alec Salmond had diverted the movement away from that long standing basis by defaulting to the Holyrood project.. a Britnat diversion.. Cameron exploited Salmond’s ego and thus has now led us to the complete debacle we are now facing.
Salmond was culpable of as much as his anointed ‘sleeper’ has subsequently proven to be also. Ironically, I got dog’s abuse on here, along with several others for pointing out that singing ‘Ode to Joy’ was a complete joke when we should be dissolving the Union.
The shrillest critics at that time are now all resident on WGD showering their cognitive dissonance on him in defence of Sturgeon: demonstrating the age old ( three hundred years at least) Scottish failing of unthinking and undeserving loyalty to our corrupt leadership.
Smith and so many of Sturgeon’s cohorts were recruited under Salmond’s watch. The whole bloody lot are rotten and compromised.
We need new leaders and a new party entirely aimed at Westminster elections only. Westmonster,the fulcrum of Sovereign power reigning over us, which must be broken by our united electoral will, with the aim over the next decade to bring about the dissolution of English control over us. And anyone who says that trying to get a plebiscite via Holyrood is viable via the SNP and or Alba , in the coming election is either deluded or a troll…and there are plenty infesting this site with their vote Labour and George Galloway/Jackie Baillie/Andrew Neil pish or the ones that keep telling us that ‘International Opinion’ does nor recognise the founding document of the UK i.e. the Act of Union as a tangible binding gag on Scotland’s stolen Sovereignty.
We need to start again people.
@Mitch – We can use Sterling. Other than that I agree with you.
OMG, I never saw this before.
And to think I once voted for that wee barsteward as deputy leader.
*Hangs head in shame.*
chas says:
5 April, 2021 at 7:52 pm
Good to see that some people are now talking about the currency Scotland would use after Independence and also about a Central Bank.
When I mentioned this a week or so ago all I got was abuse. One individual replied along the lines of ‘did I think that the Scottish soldiers fighting at Bannockburn were thinking of currency’? We have to look forward not back.
A clear way forward on issues like these are mandatory if the undecided, like me, who nevertheless want Independence, are to be convinced.
Keep the discussions going. The pound sterling is a non starter as this would mean that Westminster still retains control over a lot of monetary policy/interest rates.
GBP should be a transition currency, we can spin up a Scots £ within 2-5 years at the latest (sooner is better).
The (West) Germans launched the Deutschemark one Sunday in 1948 despite their country being a corpse-filled smoking ruin occupied by the Americans, British and French at the time. It turned out not too badly for the Germans.
We are in happier circumstances than they were. The main obstacle to a Scots Pound is not economic, it’s fear and lack of imagination. Decimalisation was also probably scary for some folks at the time.
Captain Yossarian:
You can indeed use sterling. But you will then never make any significant fiscal decision independent of (a hostile) Westminster. So – more controlled than now, as I said. Good luck.
Heaver says:
5 April, 2021 at 6:27 pm
Stephen.
“An independent nation can use whatever currency it likes, Dollar, Franc, Zloty. That includes the Pound Sterling, whether rumpUK likes it or not.
When someone of gravitas tells you Scotland cannot use the Pound (or Dollar etc); know you that you are being lied to.”
Yes, Heaver, you are correct, Scotland could continue to use the GB pound were we so to choose. However, the inescapable point is that our fiscal policy would remain entirely in the hands of a foreign State. A lot of things that might be, but Independence for Scotland would not be one.
Mitch
I agree with you that Sterling or the Euro as a choice of currency for an independent Scotland would put the country in a very tight box.
A new currency would necessitate a new central bank which would be unlikely to get buy from a standing start.
There are other options for example the Swiss franc backed by the SNB or indeed the Norwegian Kroner.
As regards your point about austerity – there will be a lot of that around everywhere.
Stephen:
Well yes, austerity will be more common generally. Which makes setting up a new currency even more insane.
The only choice you have left now is when you go bankrupt – sooner or later. You were told.
@Mitch 8.05pm
The assertion that there would be “serious and long term austerity” rests on a priori assumptions that neither you nor anyone else can back up. For it to be true you’d have to know the answers to a number of questions that you simply can’t answer:
1) What would the result of negotiations on the split of UK debts and assets be?
2) What areas would an independent Scotland spend less on than the UK, and what would it spend more on?
3) What taxes would be higher?
4) What taxes would be lower?
It’s not possible to give answers to these. Current figures like GERS tell us precisely nothing about what the economic performance of post indy-Scotland would be. However, the idea that Scotland – with all the advantages it has – would somehow be uniquely incapable of thriving as an independent country is just fanciful.
There is no black hole. Few if any countries in history would ever have become independent with as much going for them as Scotland. We don’t need luck just hard work and a sensible approach.
I’ve said this before, but in hindsight I think Alyn Smith was a security plant when he first joined the SNP. I was secretary of London Branch at the time and he came out of nowhere, personable, intelligent, friendly, very well up on procedure and policy, willing to come forward and take on committee work, what’s not to like. He was soon on the committee and I was glad to hand over the secretary position to him.
Now I think he was way too good to be true. He was very different from the usual new member who joined up because life in London had made them realise how little the UK cares about Scotland and how much Scotland is disadvantaged by the union. If he wasn’t MI5 then he was putting on a good impression of it. I say hindsight because I was completely taken in at the time.
@Mitch – We are in agreement sir…on everything fiscal. If it is managed by Sturgeon and her team of transgender tubes we will all be shafted within a fornight.
@Stephen, 6.41
Without monetary sovereignty, there is no independence. Have a look at “how to start a new country: a practical guide for Scotland” by Robin McAlpine. It explores the practical steps Scotland would have to take if it wanted to become an independent country and that includes all the actions needed to transition to our own currency. This exploration of policies is what the SNP should have been doing since 2014.
What happens if there is an absolute SNP majority within the super majority?
Five more years of Sturgeon with no intention of moving forward on independence.
The SNP, along with the unionists, will jeer at ALBA.
The only way forward is to make sure the most obnoxious of the SNP candidates such as Sturgeon, Swinney, Robertson etc are defeated in their constituences.
Will they “game the system” to get back on the list?
Sturgeon would be left in the humiliating situation of double gaming the system to get back.
Andy Ellis:
Joining the Euro requires fiscal discipline that you cannot achieve. And exactly the same with a new with a new currency. The only difference is the timescales.
This has all been explained many times, and it is inescapable. Talking about marginal tax rates is farcical in the context of the problems you will have. You were told.
Mitch
We will go bankrupt
/
That is a risk for every country including the UK, EU, US, Japan.
We have all issued more debt than we will ever be able to pay back.
We only keep going because we are able to sell our bonds.
In fact the con is so deep that much of the bonds issued by the central banks are bought back by themselves.
In these circumstances I think it is good to link up with the Swiss Franc or Norwegian Kroner which are both heavily in demand.
Morag says:
5 April, 2021 at 8:20 pm
I’ve said this before, but in hindsight I think Alyn Smith was a security plant when he first joined the SNP. I was secretary of London Branch at the time and he came out of nowhere, personable, intelligent, friendly, very well up on procedure and policy, willing to come forward and take on committee work, what’s not to like. He was soon on the committee and I was glad to hand over the secretary position to him.
Now I think he was way too good to be true. He was very different from the usual new member who joined up because life in London had made them realise how little the UK cares about Scotland and how much Scotland is disadvantaged by the union. If he wasn’t MI5 then he was putting on a good impression of it. I say hindsight because I was completely taken in at the time.
.
Needs repeated.
“New Member States are also committed to complying with the criteria laid down in the Treaty in order to be able to adopt the euro in due course after accession.”
There’s a whole lot of wiggle room there. And that’s assuming we want full EU membership as opposed to EFTA.
Briandoon the toon,good point about the money Scottish banks have deposited in BoE, as I’ve said before on other platforms. Also, if you follow Dr Tim Ridout’s plan, he suggests we set up a Scottish Bank and a Scottish pound at par with £Sterling which any Scots who wish can transfer their £sterling for £Scots from a certain date.
We would not have to do this immediately but it would probably be first done through the banking system while new notes (we already have Scottish bank notes) and, later coins, would follow.
The Scottish bank issuing the new currency would then end up wwith a sizeable amount of £Sterling which, along with the BofE deposits would make a nice pot of foreign currency.
What’s not to like?
Smith: ‘There are a lot of things we can do with enhanced devolution’
Trouble is, the SNP haven’t even been a very good devolutionist party in the six years since.
* Land reform? No, get the Duke of Buccleuch’s boy on the board instead.
* Champion a genuine Scottish media? No, give the unionist press a £3m bung.
* Argue the transformative opportunities of independence? No, get Andrew Wilson to produce the woeful Growth Commission.
* Strengthen Scotland’s institutions? No, get the Crown Office to utterly compromise itself protecting your arse.
There’s a few good things, free school meals, baby boxes, but nothing that pushes the envelope of devolution. There is at least now a National Investment Bank – so we’ll see where that goes. But off the top of my head that’s it. Six years spent virtue signalling and trying to stop England getting the Brexit it voted for.
Stephen:
If you stay in the union then you have a financial chance. Yes, it would be tough, and as you say it might not work, anyway.
But if you choose independence then you literally have no chance: whatever currency decisions you make it will fail.
Sounds like common sense.
There has been no point so far since 2014 that we could have had another referendum and won it. A second failure is the end of it … and 7 years in politics, especially when constitutional change is on the cards, is not exactly very long. So yeah, patience. It’ll happen.
Mitch says:
“But if you choose independence then you literally have no chance: whatever currency decisions you make it will fail.”
—————-
Wow! Just wow!
Pete Roberts:
It’s so sweet. Joining the Euro requires a fiscal discipline that you cannot achieve. There is no ‘wriggle room’.
The EU will not be sympathetic, and they will not do you any favours. Independence is over before it has even begun.
@Mitch 8.23 pm
What’s the Euro got to do with it? We won’t even be in the EU to start with, and even if we do we are unlikely to qualify to join the Euro – or indeed want to – for years.
The “too wee, too poor” schtick got old 6 years ago: it’s no more convincing now. If you think Scotland’s current position disqualifies it from managing economically post indy, but can’t explain how all those other relatively recent EU members seem to have managed, we can safely discount your pearls of wisdom.
It would be very beneficial if some here read the banned LSE report on independence.
Boris banned it. Wings readers could reproduce it.
Gracious. When I first poked my English nose into ‘Wings’ a few months ago I found a witty, hard-headed debating society.
Now I peer into and see a lot of hissing and clawing. Bag of cats, I’d say. But what do I know? I’m an Englishman and therefore excluded from it all.
What’s gone wrong?
Rikali:
I agree. Whoever got you into this independence/currency catch-22 has a lot to answer for.
Scot Finlayson says,
“Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”
The vast majority of posters on this very site do not have the imagination to accept the idea that voting tactically for Sarwar in the Glasgow Southside constituency would get rid of Sturgeon without any other side effect.
No loss of SNP seats, no gain by Labour. Sarwar in from the constituency instead of from top of Labour list.
Sturgeon replaced by SNP BAME MSP Roza Salih.
I can only conclude that the vast majority of posters here imagine that Salih would be worse than Sturgeon and would prefer to stick with the devil they know.
Hi Daisy Walker at 7:55 pm.
You typed,
“One small hiccup – Virgin has taken over Clydesdale Bank lock stock and barrel.”
Eh but…
They’re keeping the Clydesdale Bank name for the banknotes.
From:
https://archive.is/iJ7cW
“Clydesdale Bank notes are set to survive a Virgin Money takeover as owner CYBG calls time on its 175-year-old brand.
The BBC has learned Virgin Money will continue to issue Clydesdale notes despite the promise to have the entire business rebranded by 2021.”
The top priority is surely to get rid of Sturgeon, not the bloody currency.
“ There’s a whole lot of wiggle room there. And that’s assuming we want full EU membership as opposed to EFTA.”
EFTA definitely a more flexible arrangement. After joining the EU we will be expected to abide by the stability growth pact rules irrespective of joining the euro. Iceland’s recovery following the financial crisis would likely have been slower with full EU membership.
Icelands adoption of capital controls goes against the four freedoms at the heart of EU membership. Unlikely that this would have been tolerated with full membership.
4hrs after our host’s post.
Good cutoff.
Just a thought.
Andy Ellis:
It’s too sweet. You have three (and only three) currency choices:
1) Use sterling. Impossible with a hostile Westminster.
2) Use the Euro. Impossible with their severe fiscal discipline requirements.
3) Create a new independent currency. Impossible without severe fiscal discipline requirements to satisfy international markets.
All three choices are effectively impossible. It’s over before it even began. You were told.
Conspiracy theorist in me would say Andrew Wilson’s currency plan being incompatible with EU membership was deliberate.
An absolute belter from Craig Murray.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/04/the-strange-convulsion-in-scottish-politics/
“ 3) Create a new independent currency. Impossible without severe fiscal discipline requirements to satisfy international markets.”
Straight from the daily mail economic flat earth society.
Where do you think currency markets get the new currency from?
Nally Anders,
Thank you, I am particularly proud of it. An awful lot to get off my chest.
@mitch 8.40 pm
You’re like a dog returning to its own vomit. It’ll be number 3. Many others have done it with much less going for them than Scotland. Your claim it would be somehow impossible is pure assertion. It’s just hot air.
Hi Kcor at 8:23 pm.
You typed,
“The only way forward is to make sure the most obnoxious of the SNP candidates such as Sturgeon, Swinney, Robertson etc are defeated in their constituences.”
I believe I opined,
“Looking at The Times poll today, it would appear that the SNP are heading for a majority, on their own – at the moment…
A tactic for the Pro-Indy movement could be to campaign for removal of four or five SNP candidates, who are not in favour.”
at this link below, only yesterday.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-unpersons/comment-page-1/#comment-2643339
Scottie dog:
Ok then. What rate could you borrow at with a new currency – having no fiscal history or credit rating?
Oh actually, you would have a fiscal history – an extremely bad one from being in the union. Except now you wouldn’t have the BofE backing your debts.
It’s too too sweet.
Andy Ellis:
Ok then. What rate could you borrow at with a new currency – having no fiscal history or credit rating?
Oh actually, you would have a fiscal history – an extremely bad one from being in the union. Except now you wouldn’t have the BofE backing your debts.
It’s too too sweet.
I see the New SNP are promoting SNP1 as it will lead us to independence, it won’t.
SNP1 will lead to living under an oppressive one party regime where law, justice and honesty will mean absolutely nothing. If you are an enemy of the party you will be silenced, if you refuse to be silenced and erased from history you will be jailed on fitted up charges.
People debating currency while advocating handing absolute power to a narcissistic lying psychopath like Nicola Sturgeon. She has stolen your money, made free expression in your own home illegal, erased women and engaged in a large scale criminal conspiracy in full view of all of us and got away with it. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Scotland is not fit to be independent, it is a broken cesspit of corruption ruled by people who are little more than gangsters, people who take bungs from corrupt property developers in full view and do not give a damn.
These people don’t care because if the idiots who advocate SNP1, Murrell and Sturgeon have been spitting in all of your faces for years and treating you like idiots and your response is to vote her back in when she should be in jail. You should not have the vote if that’s how you behave.
I have never been so effing embarrassed at the state of Scotland as I am now, the most corrupt and oppressive government regime in Europe and the way we deal with it is vote for the bastards again. What an absolute joke.
“Ok then. What rate could you borrow at with a new currency ”
Do you actually understand how ridiculous your statement is?
Who are we borrowing the new Scottish currency from?
Also you haven’t even answered my previous question..
Mitch
A new currency wouldn’t work
/
Consider the Euro.
New in 1999.
Today it is almost exactly at the same level against the dollar as at the start.
Meanwhile lair Johnson borrows billions and the britnat media says nothing.
But you can bet yer last bawbee the britnat media will be continuing with their independent Scotland too wee too stupid too poor propaganda.
When it comes to national finance everyone and no-one is an expert. The people will be fed more and more lies, that’s the only definite. The people should ignore them all.
Fuck finance; get independence.
Brian Doonthetoon says,
“Hi Kcor at 8:23 pm.
You typed,
“The only way forward is to make sure the most obnoxious of the SNP candidates such as Sturgeon, Swinney, Robertson etc are defeated in their constituences.”
I believe I opined, A tactic for the Pro-Indy movement could be to campaign for removal of four or five SNP candidates, who are not in favour.”
Good to know we agree on that. Hope more posters here will come to a similar conclusion.
For your information, I have been saying this for quite a while now.
ScottieDog:
You borrow on the bond market, same as everyone else. If you have a good credit rating them it’s easier; if you have a bad or no rating then it’s harder, or even impossible.
Now, answer my question – what actual rate would/could you borrow at, having an extremely bad fiscal history and effectively no credit rating? And of course no BofE to back you up.
Hint: you probably couldn’t borrow at all, meaning inevitable bankruptcy, as above.
Mitch says:
5 April, 2021 at 8:36 pm
Rikali:
I agree. Whoever got you into this independence/currency catch-22 has a lot to answer for
————
We most emphatically do NOT agree.
Just as independence is normal, having ones own currency and central bank is normal for a nation with Statehood.
To say it’s beyond the competence of Scotland is what triggered my “wows”.
If New Zealand and Denmark can do it so can Scotland.
Remember the British Establishment needs Scotland they will degenerate it say it will never survive on its own despite scores of small countries now independent since the break up of the Soviet Union and doing well thank you very much.
Stephen:
Oh FFS. The Euro was backed by e.g. France, Italy and Germany. Do you not consider that that meant it had a more stable base than Scotland would have??
@Mitch 8.51 pm
How did every other newly independent state manage it Mitch? How good an economic state were Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania in when they cast off Soviet rule? How about Slovenia? Slovakia? You see where this is going right?
You think the international markets are going to be looking at Scotland and thinking: “Nah, they’ll never make it: too wee, too poor…:.
Get a grip.
The Accountancy Trick that hides Scotland’s wealth.
http://www.businessforscotland.com/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/
Andy Ellis:
I *know* that they would make severe fiscal discipline i.e. austerity, a condition of borrowing. With you having no decent fiscal history or credit rating.
Now, answer my question. At what rate could you borrow with your new currency?
Funny how many persons mainly Tories complain to me about how Westminster subsidies (ha ha believe that if you will) Scotland.
My reply to them is to lobby your Tory MP to support a bill for Westminster to release Scotland from the Union and all should be well. Funny how they then shut up and don’t know what to say.
We can raise and spend our own revenues rather than as we do now and give it all to the U.K. Treasury and get a small amount back as a handout.
If the economy is going well or isn’t so good then Scotland as an Independent Country is accountable in full and we will solve our own issues rather than the mess we have at the moment with next to no financial clout on how we spend ALL of our revenues we raise and give to the U.K. Treasury.
Mitch
Of course yes.
But remember how everyone thought the Euro would fail.
Scotland’s first step needs to be the setting up of a central bank and then a couple of years later a currency and link up with another central bank such as the SNB.
I was sorry to hear that WGD has not been feeling well and has taken a step back from all the current political debate and arguments.
If you look on his site, you can find a way to contact him. I am sure a wee message, just a sentence or two wishing him well, would dae him the power o’ good. It takes very little time.
I am going to write to him and then I am going to have a read of Craig Murray’s recent blog post. Looking forward to tomorrow’s declaration on the 701st anniversary of Arbroath.
Wasn’t Smith the one who was successfully sued for defamation after talking bollocks about a political rival?
@Mitch
You’re just spouting guff. Depending on the negotiations with the British nationalists we might have zero debt: after all, that’s the default position historically. your assertions – for that is all they are – are based on a priori assumptions you simply have no evidence for.
There will be no problem borrowing. Scotland isn’t Kosovo. Nobody will be doing rump UK any favours: they’ll be the one facing an economic abyss without Scotlands resources and oil reserves. Nobody sane believes the “Global Britain” schtick, or thinks rump UK will transform itself into a northern Singapore.
Let’s face it; we are toostupid to run our own country. We even managed to vote MI6 into power without realising it.
Mitch the troll time to get back under the bridge as you haven’t a clue about money or anything else. bye
LSE Paper stating how Scotland would be very well off by being Independent. Posted on the 30th of March and taken down within 2 days of being posted. Luckily people have archived it as below.
Scottish independence would have immediate economic costs, history suggests there are long-term benefits.
web.archive.org/web/20210330073808/https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scottish-independence-cost/
@Nally Anders says: 5 April, 2021 at 8:41 pm
“An absolute belter from Craig Murray.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/04/the-strange-convulsion-in-scottish-politics”
I read it, but I have to be honest, some parts had me raising an eyebrow.
“Gordon Wilson was involved in …the temporary liberation from Westminster Abbey of the stone of Scone.”
Um, what? That one’s news to me!
As for Wilson as some sort of “rebel”, he may have been involved in Radio Free Scotland (to be blunt, everyone was running up pirate radio stations in those days – the Empire Loyalists and CND groups were esp. fond of that stunt from London and the Midlands) but as the guy who proscribed Siol nan Gaidheal and the 79 Group, he soon proved as threatening as a Nessie plushie.
Salmond came along, did the job better, whereupon Wilson went into full blown “Jim Sillers” mode from the sidelines about the lack of “radicalness” he’d killed off in the first place, just cos he was choked someone he’d flung out did a better job (kind of a running theme in Scottish nationalism in my lifetime …)
Reminds me of that old Men They Couldn’t Hang song, Rabid Underdog:
“I’ll see you when we’re both a wee bit older,
To drink and boast of things I’ve never done,”
http://web.archive.org/web/20210330073808/https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/scottish-independence-cost/
Doug @8.59
‘When it comes to national finance everyone and no-one is an expert. The people will be fed more and more lies, that’s the only definite. The people should ignore them all.
Fuck finance; get Independence’.
Wow-just wow.
Stick your head in the sand and any perceived problems will simply disappear. Is that it?
So many trolls on here these days… bring back that Cameron guy instead!
Breeks: did you ever write a book? If so, link it. If nae, get it done! I’ll buy it, for one. (I just got Alf Baird’s!)
As ever, there are some truly fantastic BTL posts here, but the constant interruptions of these useless yoon scamps becomes tiresome.
Excellent piece by Craig Murray linked to above. Doesn’t miss and hit the wall as to why we are where we are and who’s responsible.
Andy Ellis:
Sturgeon (I think) has already said that Scotland will take it’s share of debt. In any case, why would they be exempt??
You would have no fiscal history or credit rating except for your record on the union, which is poor. But you wouldn’t have the BofE backing you up. There is every chance that you either couldn’t borrow, or would at the very least have to impose severe fiscal restrictions i.e. austerity. And not the playground austerity that the UK had before. Deep real-term cuts for years and years.
It. Is. Over. You don’t have any good choices left. The only choice now is when you go bankrupt – sooner, or later.
Anyway, you won’t answer my reasonable questions so this conversation is over. You were told.
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”
Maya Angelou
And so they did not become rotten due to some external influence, they were rotten from the beginning.
@Andy Ellis
Have a gleggo at this-something about the LSE about Scotland’s economy being compared to Slovakia.
The industrial strength of Slovakia is founded upon a number of advantages that Scotland does not possess, including low wages, low tax rates, and a favourable geographic location in the heart of Central Europe. Of these, we know that driving down wages is part of Andrew Wilson’s SNP growth strategy, and that reduced public expenditure would be required to apply to join the EU as a new member state, but we are not there yet. Moreover, even the most ardent nationalist will admit that Scotland is a geographically peripheral territory.Furthermore, the economy of Slovakia is heavily dependent on the automotive industry, which is all but absent in Scotland. Indeed, the VW takeover of Skoda plants also serves as an example of one of the functions of small member states in the EU – to provide privatisation opportunities and profits for the major companies of the large member states. Other such functions include providing cheap migrant labour and outsourcing economic weakness to keep the value of the euro low and with it to keep German and French products competitive in growth markets like China.To sum up, the story of Slovakia is typical of the role of small member states in the EU: to provide cheap labour, to have low-level taxation, indifferent public services and agree to the privatisation of state assets, while providing a captive market for companies such as Siemens. When you add in the costs of net contributions (without the UK rebate) and VAT on all of the products exempted in the UK during our membership, two things become clear.First, Scotland is not Slovakia (in case nationalists have not noticed.) And secondly, life as a small EU member state will not be at all like was as a large member state.
The philippines, a place I love as much as Scotland uses the peso, it fluctuates between about 62 to 68 pesos to the pound.
Now a countries currency does fluctuate, some more than others.
But the real worth of any country is its people and its natural resources, but lack of natural resourses can be overcome as japan has proven, they have to import everything for their energy needs, like oil etc etc.
As for scotland and its future currency, do not be misled or kidded on to by some guy running the Bank of England, scotland has lots of wealth, in fact an over abundance of riches, without getting to bogged down, we will always need oil for generations to come, machinery as we have now, cannot function without it.
Under the river clyde we have a massive load of oil, it cannot be got at because of the nuclear subs coming and going, a little while ago they discovered the biggest oil field ever found anywhere in the world in the north sea, reckoned to last for 100 years at least.
All that oil and our people’s talent for producing good quality stuff like whisky etc etc, that is where the strength of any currency lies, and as most of us know, we could function quite happily without the oil wealth we have, japan does.
We will have a scottish pound eventually in my opinion, but the scottish peso has a nice ring to it, but its only a name, it means tiddly poo in real terms
Time for a wee clip of Jim Rogers.
https://twitter.com/freethinker2030/status/1224038013409419265
Leave a light on for Scotland in the EU? Alyn Smith has a hard on for Scotland in the UK.
Heaver says:
5 April, 2021 at 5:27 pm
You know what would piss off the high-heedyins the most ? Guaranteed ?
.
ALBA 2, snp 1 conditionally…
AWhiteLife @ 7:13 pm
That’s not nice really not helpful.
Shocked 8.54pm.’Scotland is not fit to be independent, it is a broken cesspit of corruption ruled by people who are little more than gangsters’? So the answer is what? Let ourselves be ruled by the london cesspit of corruption and gangsterism. Aye right.
Slovakia versus Scotland, even them being at home, we would still thrash them wan nothin
Mitch – I think you’re new on here. I though you’re contribution was pretty good. They’re a friendly enough bunch really. Your first impression is that they are going to pan your windows in or something, but they won’t do that. Try again tomorrow. That’s what I did. New ideas are always welcome here.
Following posted by Breeks on the 03/04/2021.
I’m reposting as it’s a concise assessment on how Scotland can do better being Independent and how our resources have been mismanaged by being in the Union with no big benefits to Scotland as would have been if we had full control of them as an Independent country.
Breeks 03/04/2021
If I wanted to condense the issue to be as concise as possible, I would invite you to read the 20 pages of the McCrone Report. Once you read, and appreciate the promise and potential of being an oil producing nation, you must then compare that potential with the reality. (A reality kept secret and hidden from Scotland for 30 years).
There is a grievous disparity with what Gavin McCrone predicted for Scotland, (wealth to an embarrassing degree was one term which springs to mind), and what actually occurred.
The obvious conclusion is that the McCrone Report was wrong, except, across the North Sea, we have the striking parallels with Norway; the country in control of it’s own resources for whom the fairytale predictions of wealth and prosperity came true.
Scotland, in contrast, saw no inward investment in state owned oil production companies or support infrastructure, and saw Thatcher plundering Scotland’s bonanza, and using it to pay for Canary Warf and bankroll the economic ‘miracle’ of Thatcherism.
Now, what’s done is done. Scotland will never recover that exploited resource, nor will it ever have a Scottish Oil Fund to catch up with Norway, ensuring the Nations resources benefit generation after generation of Norwegian population.
The oil bonanza isn’t quite finished, but environmental criteria make it unlikely the oil still being discovered in Scottish water will deliver anything like the 1970’s bonanza. Much of that oil will probably be left where it is.
However, as one door closes, another opens. Scotland is uniquely placed with the winds and currents of the North Atlantic to capitalise on renewable Energy. Off the top of my head, it is estimated that Scotland has 25% of Europe’s renewable energy potential. It could be money for nothing, indefinitely.
Scotland has the potential to capitalise from Renewable Energy the way Norway benefited from oil, but the problem for Scotland is the same. Scotland’s economic priorities are determined by Westminster, the same greedy Westminster which incompetently squandered Scotland’s wealth and opportunity in the 1970’s.
Scotland has a second chance to exploit clean, renewable energy, use it’s surplus energy to pioneer Hydrogen fuel, and build a solid foundation of wealth and stability with a Scottish Renewables fund, like Norway’s oil fund.
If we don’t choose Independence, Scotland will not benefit from that Renewable revolution. The wealth generated will head South, and Scotland will be denied the inward investment required to develop the support infrastructure, to keep our industries competitive and prosperous.
Once again, look at the Norwegian ship building industry, competing with Korean Yards building warships, ferries, fishing boats and cruise liners, and compare that to Scotland, with the routine blackmail of getting thrown a bone with Royal Navy ships. Where is Scotland’s shipbuilding industry? That prosperity should be something shared with Scotland, but it isn’t.
It isn’t, because Westminster treats Scotland as a cash cow; minimum in for maximum out. There is minimal effort put into building sustainable, mutually supportive industries and commerce, and no inward investment in research and development. Most Scottish potential is sold off or licensed to foreign investors rather than nurturing a Scottish economy, which heaven forbid, might outstrip and become more powerful than England.
Look at the promises; Eurostar was meant to run a high speed rail link to Ravenscraig and Motherwell, but once the South had its infrastructure, the enthusiasm for connecting Scotland ran out. Now we don’t even have Ravenscraig. Look at HS2. Promised to connect Scotland, but runs out of steam once it’s reached Birmingham and Manchester… funny that.
I’m sick and tired of Scotland being mismanaged, exploited and plundered, promised grand designs which never materialise, and forever suffering a crippling lack of inward investment. The bosses are frequently parachuted in from the South, rather that nurturing home grown Scottish talent.
Scotland needs the power to be master of our own resources, and use those resources to advance our country, and improve the wealth and life opportunities for our people. That means Scottish Independence, and the removal of Westminster’s iron grip on Scotland’s resources.
Frankly, it’s a no brainer.
I’ve spared the Brexit story and the colonial subjugation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty. Scotland is a viable possibility.
We just need rid of Westminster Government, short term returns for minimal investment, and Tory greed and insatiable exploitation. Our future is unwritten. If we don’t write it ourselves, “they” will write it for us, and we know how that story goes…
We won’t go to bed and wake up rich. It will take commitment, sacrifice and hard work. There will be disappointments, failures, mistakes, along the way, but we’ll have tremendous incentive to get it right, and get our Nation firing on all cylinders and free from parasitic exploitation.
Sadly, we’ll be accused of being bigoted against the English, ungrateful for the English forever bailing Scotland out, and watching too much Braveheart. But that really isn’t what Scottish Independence is about. There’s no hatred in it. We’ve not seen too much Braveheart, it’s the never ending “break-heart” we’ve all grown tired of.
According to the polls we are on course for a supermajority;
So, then what, regards the current SNP leadership?
Do we ;
a. Bite the bullet and accept that we disagree with the majority of indy supporters and push forward on this wave for independence, with NS leading the SNP and AS in there for Alba?
or
b. to hell with that, we don’t want independence thanks to a corrupt SNP leadership. Let’s continue to battle to get them out at any cost?
Anyone?
I don’t know why you all keep feeding the troll. Keep shovelling in food and it will keep producing shite. It knows nothing, has no capacity for research or learning, and is inducing you to waste your time running around in the circles of ignorance it inhabits. Stu’s tolerance is legendary, but everyone else should just let the fathead call into the darkness.
@Mitch 9.27pm
Sorry, bored of your trolling now. The White Paper pre 2014 offered to assume an equitable share based on good faith negotiations, an agreed split of assets as well as debt, and assumed a deal on currency. Without that no liability for any debt can be assumed. That is the standard position in international law: the seceding state only assumes any liability for debt by agreement. The Russian Federation assumed the whole of the USSR’s debt, none was assumed by the former republics which became independent. Ireland agreed to take a share of UKs debt in 1921, but it was never collected as a bribe to get the Irish to accept the border of the gerrymandered Northern Irish statelet.
Our record in the union won’t dictate the future, because all that shows is that British nationalists are crap at running their own country never mind ours as well. Their failings don’t dictate our future. any initial hardships in the first few years will be worth it longer term, and certainly no worse than staying in broken Britain, or brexit or the misguided austerity policies of successive Tory governments.
You’re an obvious troll, and a none too gifted one at that.
@Dan at 9.30pm
Thanks for posting that Jim Rogers interview. I’ve kept that one too for reference.
He totally makes an arse of the stupid interviewer who is totally out of their depth in the discussion.
I hope a lot of people watch the clip of Jim Rogers kindly put up by Dan at 9:30 pm
And for all the naysayers on this site tonight. Here it tonight’s winner as Proud Scot.
Jim Hood in the House of Commons in 2014.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2zI2cMuoQQ
Sturgeon was reported in The National very recently as saying that she intends to be First Minister for the next 5 years, and she hasn’t made up her mind about the next term. She’s very clear that she has no intention of leading Scotland to independence during the next 5 years, and perhaps not during the next 10 years.
Alba needs to put the pressure on!
“I have never been so effing embarrassed at the state of Scotland as I am now, the most corrupt and oppressive government regime in Europe and the way we deal with it is vote for the bastards again. What an absolute joke.”
Robin McAlpine said almost the same 3 months ago. Obviously, ‘Shocked’ listened and so did I. Hardly any other bastard did.
Captain Yossarian:
I’m afraid that they are delusional. I totally understand the sentiment for independence, but it just doesn’t add up in any way. It cannot work without serious financial disruption that would fundamentally transform Scottish society for much the worst. Shouting rhetorical nonsense about Wallace etc is just ridiculous.
These are basic questions that are being ignored, but they must be answered if independence is to have any chance. Personally, I would stay in the union and seek a new relationship, but it’s their decision.
Its reckoned scotland is the 6th richest country in the world now, not in the future now, 600 foodbanks for the 6th richest country in the world, and that concludes the case for the defence your honour
Its not the scots that are delusional, I wonder who it is that’s delusional if its not us
https://www.facebook.com/959780427477483/posts/3698708130251352/?vh=e&d=w
The Brexit that really is just a laugh!
Neil Forbes says:
5 April, 2021 at 9:25 pm
So many trolls on here these days… bring back that Cameron guy instead!
Ah the good old days. Remember the comments by ‘Rock’ and ‘Auld Rock’, lol. Some comments they would put on. I often wonder what happens to posters when they don’t post for a while.
It’s quite worrying to see the level of delusion about the financial hazards of independence. There will be a big price to pay. Emotion is one thing hard fiscal reality is another.
David Caledonia – one of the most depressing photographs you will ever see if of the foodbank at George Square in the snow. Literally hundreds of people queuing for food in freezing temperatures. In the meantime, Nicola Sturgeon has hundreds of pairs of £500/pair shoes. I’ve said many times that this country is turning into Imelda Marcos and the Phillipines. Corruption and malfeasance surround us everywhere.
Mark Boyle,
It may be news to you, but Wilson was certainly part of the plot, I had dinner with him and Ian Hamilton and others involved, some 40 years ago, when they were reminiscing about it.
Your running down the history of Radio Free Scotland is graceless, uncalled for and plain wrong-headed. I do not know your motive.
@ de brus
How can you get a supermajority if the snp are not in favour of independence?
It is fairly obvious they have abandoned the plan.
Aye, every nation that fought for its independence from England went into battle using a copy of London’s Financial Times as a gun.
Britnat Westminster fucks us up financially and we’re supposed to take lessons from them?!
.
.
Wee Monkey,
I did not know Annie Wells Tory MSP was resigning because of threats. I do recall her tenure via Wings forensic analysis that she was not a good politician.
I loathe threats and have spent a significant portion of my life remedying those who would make threats.
Wee Monkey, how are you about threats to Joanna Cherry?
Wee Monkey, how are you about threats to Alex Salmond?
Wee Monkey, how are you about threats to Kenny MacAskill?
Wee Monkey, how are you about threats to Stuart Campbell?
Wee Monkey, how are you about threats to Craig Murray?
Wee Monkey, how are you about threats to tens of thousands by your Twittler Youth, “Shut the Fuck Up TERF” pointing a gun at the person looking at this?
I am absolutely NOT happy about threats. But when Trolls such as you pollute these thread with your virtue signaling I just want to scroll on by. You have no answer to the questions above.
Wee Monkey, you pop up to mix up excrement and fling monkey dung about the place.
Now you have poked me along with many others with your shit covered pokey stick, please go away.
I know the philippines very well, its practically my second home, the marcos family where crooks, and the guy in charge now is not much better, but the people know this and can do nothing about it.
In the philippines you stand in line for hours to get a piece of paper that allows you to travel to the next town, its a kind of health certificate without the medical.
There are armed troops everywhere, no point in going anywhere without your clean bill of health certificate, they would just warn you to turn round.
The people are amazing, the government is corrupt, the scottish government is corrupt, but at least we can do something about them, my friends in that wonderful country of many islands cannot
James Barr Gardner says: 9:34 pm
Heaver says:
5 April, 2021 at 5:27 pm
You know what would piss off the high-heedyins the most ? Guaranteed ?
.
ALBA 2, snp 1 conditionally…
————————————-
Now it’s
SNP 1, ALBA 2
If we get on with the job, in 5 years it’s
ALBA 1, SNP 2 🙂
Clydesdale are buying Virgin Money not the other way round (but are keeping the Virgin brand for retail banking.
https://archive.is/wip/0AJwy
“The owner of Clydesdale Bank and Yorkshire Bank, CYBG, has agreed to buy Virgin Money for £1.7bn. Under the deal, all the group’s retail customers will be moved to Virgin Money over the next three years.”
Lots of variations on why GBP £ is called Sterling.
One thought is that Scots Royal Mint was located in Stirling so £ Sterling is derived from that as per Scots Pound.
As others have said it matters not a bit what currency and Indy Scotland uses as long as it has a central bank.
Remember one of the reasons the McCrone report was a state secret for so long was that it stated:
“It must be concluded therefore that revenues and large balance of payments gains would indeed accrue to a Scottish Government in the event of independence provided that steps were taken either by carried interest or by taxation to secure the Government ‘take’. Undoubtedly this would banish any anxieties the Government might have had about its budgetary position or its balance of payments. The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner. Just as deposed monarchs and African leaders have in the past used the Swiss franc as a haven of security, as now would the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge against inflation and devaluation and the Scottish banks could expect to find themselves inundated with speculative inflow of foreign funds.”
Also remember that Jim Rogers said in 2017 the GBP £1 would only be worth 80 US cents if Scotland voted for Independence in 2014.
This is what he said 4 years ago and the situation has only got worse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYzvUpoRsCU
“If Scotland leaves (the UK) they are going to take their oil with them and the Pound could go down a great deal. It would certainly go down under one US dollar, why wouldn’t it be 80 cents’ before going on to state that the UK has, ‘got a lot of debt, you’ve got a serious balance of trade problem which shows no signs of being corrected. I don’t see anything to make sterling go up.’”
UK only has a AA credit rating “with stable outlook” due to Scotland’s resources as collateral.
UK National Debt currently is scary for the Westminster Establishment to contemplate without Scottish resources:
https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
Alyn Smith MEP, who had such confidence in his party leader’s “Stop Brexit” policy that he very quickly got himself parachuted into a safe SNP Westminster MP seat.
That Alyn Smith?
And he is important why exactly?
(Apart from being the “daddy bear” of the more toxic SNP youth – young men’s misogynistic – wing, obvs.)
And btw, there are no foodbanks in the philippines, in fact getting any food is a challenge when your as skint as skint can be, I and many others help to feed some of them as best we can, foodbanks that’s luxury living compared to what I have seen in the philippines
@Mkkey D
Wake up. Jim Sillars, Alex Salmond, Robin McAlpine and Christ knows who else have all said the same things as me.
Nicola Sturgeon, Peter Murrell, Liz Evans, Liz Lloyd, John Swinney, Ian McCann and the rest should be in jail right now.
Aye but you’ll vote for them because they all told you that it’s not them who are the corrupt ones, it’s the English, and if you vote for them they will lead you to freedom. What an absolute fucking joke.
Like taking candy from a baby.
Oh FFS.
Austerity is a political CHOICE, not a fiscal reality.
The ‘financial hazards of independence’ are exactly the same hazards as every other country.
During the transition, the central bank & its operation is set up. The new currency is issued straight after Independence, laws and enforcement are put in place to ensure all taxes are paid in the scots pound.
Then, you have fiscal autonomy, and a real economy where a prudent government can plan and spend what it likes on anything that counts as an INVESTMENT and with an aim for full employment.
The details will change because the policies will be different, but the principles are no different to the uk system, except with independence the investment will be WITHIN SCOTLAND. Our taxes will be for Scotland, and for our own future.
‘Hard fiscal reality’ is that it CAN be done, and it WILL be done. The only delusion is folk that think Scotland is somehow UNIQUELY INCAPABLE of doing what every other country has done, and indeed what we used to have!
The economic reality is that Scotland has a very positive outlook. The only hazards we have are political ones and wankers that insist on spewing out the same old pish time and time again, telling us Scotland has some mystery debt, or some terrible burden or somehow, uniquely will not understand how a bank is run. The only way we have out of this mass grinding poverty and immense wealth inequality is with independence. It’ll take hard work and planning in setting up our currency, but none of it should leave anyone the poorer.
Austerity is a POLITICAL choice – if you vote for the arseholes that promise it, that’s what you get.
Best not to feed the troll. Scroll on by.
Scotland unique? I think not.
“A l’exemple de Saturne, la révolution dévore ses enfants”
BUT independence is normal and desirable.
Didn’t need to read any article to know exactly their thinking; NS only tagged on the tiny EU ‘material change’ clause to the 2015 manifesto after months of people saying that the English would vote LEAVE (I knew they would)… a tacit decision to become Uncle McTom Brits.
@Captian Yossarian
I have been getting increasingly concerned with the way the SNP have been going for years. I am a solicitor, a proper one and not a 2 bit backstreet failure like Nicola Sturgeon, and as such I have always known a bit about her backstory and that her entire reputation as the “careful lawyer” was a pack of lies built on a hill of shit.
Named person if it had gone through would have been the last straw as it was the most creepy sinister piece of legislation I have ever heard of but thankfully the UK Supreme Court stopped the bastards, I thought it might check them and sense would prevail, but after that things just carried on going from bad to worse. Hate crime bill and now the blatant ingrained institutional criminal corruption of the Sturgeon cabal has pushed me to breaking point. I have had it. I’ve had it with the new SNP and I’ve had it with any idiot who thinks voting for them is an option.
I like many others noted that the SNP used cult recruiting techniques championed by the creepy bastard Stephen Noon, I like many others gave it a bit of a pass as it didn’t happen to me as I was into independence before the Indy ref was even thought about, but I was wrong. We have reached the situation where people are no longer able to think for themselves, they have been conditioned to vote for the New SNP no matter what they see or hear and I fear that many of them don’t really know why. The country is absolutely finished if Sturgeon gets away with this. The only thing I can compare it to is Jonestown.
People are being asked to forgive corruption and criminality because if they vote New SNP they will be free thanks to independence. Free!? Do these idiots even know what being free means?! You now can’t even have a private conversation in your own home where you may accidentally upset some snowflake you’ve never met! Does that sound like freedom to you? It’s the most ridiculous example of state over reach and attacking the basic freedoms of people I have ever seen, but some utter fools think the same people who introduced this as well as lying to parliament countless times, trying to jail opponents and destroying and redacting evidence can be trusted to take us to freedom? Are they insane?
now, i know it’s a red top. but given that most of the fans for her believe what’s in the msm is this really the most interesting post that they could come up with to keep it in the spotlight?????? I fekking despair for Scotland, i really do……
(so long as he has her priorities right eh?)
https://archive.is/3SChv
Ooh, or maybe she thinks she can “sweep” the hairs “under the carpet”
*oops
Freudian slip, should have read to keep her in the spotlight
I have taken the decision to no longer identify as being scottish. It is too shameful.
Wee Willie says:
5 April, 2021 at 10:12 pm
It’s quite worrying to see the level of delusion about the financial hazards of independence
There are financial hazards everywhere you look. Westminster and Washington DC are spending money they don’t have like a drunk Caligula in an Amsterdam lapdancing club. Everybody knows they’ll never be able to pay it off. Everybody knows the pension and welfare commitments they’ve already signed up to aren’t going to be honoured, because they’re bleeding the treasury dry to buy votes and stuff their pockets before the inevitable.
And nobody cares because they assume a greater fool will come along and have to make the hard decisions (the next government, the next generation, whatever)
Germany is good on fiscal restraint but much of the Eurozone is basically skint (partly thanks to the Eurozone) and in a similar position to the Anglos. Italy is basically a bankrupt state pretending to be solvent and the French aren’t far behind.
There’s going to be a reckoning before too long. It’s really daft to imagine that the alternative to Scottish independence is stability and prosperity, because it isn’t. The alternative to Scottish independence is more like being a third class passenger on the RMS Titanic, locked down in the lower decks while the lovably incompetent Boris Johnson, or Sir Keir Starmer, or whichever useless dick replaces him steers directly towards an iceberg.
Tally ho!
I know we are doing well when all the Unionist crawl out of the woodwork to tell us we are too poor, too wee and too stupid.
The best I’ve felt since the Summer of 2014.
O/T
Well so much for the vaccines being the way out of this. People will now not only need a vaccine and a vaccine passport to do normal things like going to a pub or a restaurant or working in an office, but they will now also need to take a self administered test twice a week (lets just not think about all the huge problems with this like supply, false positives and actually making sure people have administered it properly and not just fudging it to make sure they get a negative result so it doesn’t ruin their plans) to do any of those things.
It doesn’t end there though bojo has also just announced that social distancing and mask wearing is here to stay even after June when he said that England would be back to normal despite doing all of that other stuff and that it will last for atleast another year. I have no doubt nicola will follow along with these plans.
I hope people are starting to see that things will not go back to normal. You are not going to get your fundamental rights back, even basic things like being able to run a small busineess or god forbid having a social life. Politicians like boris and nicola are too intoxicated by the power to micro manage every aspect of our lives to let it all go now and the “experts” advising the governments will always find a new variant to jump at, they will always advise hyper caution because they don’t have any appreciation for anything other than covid.
Probably the most depressing thing about all of this though is that it is still hugely popular with the public. Scottish people are terrified to walk into a supermarket without wearing a mask, how on earth are they going to vote for something as revolutionary as independence.
“Contrary says:
5 April, 2021 at 10:44 pm
Oh FFS.
Austerity is a political CHOICE, not a fiscal reality.”
Sounds like you have been sucking at the teat of one Richard Murphy who when real economics doesn’t work for him just invents his own to get on some TV programme , the fact that no-one else in the world uses such a system of course is never the point is it. I’m afraid you live in dremland.
Alyn Smith thinks he will escape the wrath.
Once Scots are informed – he will be the main target.
p.s. Nicola must go.
Not only that but independence is essential to our future wellbeing .
Strangely, much of the wrongs committed by a tiny group in the Scottish Government would be impossible in a free country with a half decent constitution.
Our weakness is our weakness.
Let us try normality in an independent Scotland.
@Jockanese Wind Talker 5 April, 2021 at 10:31 pm
“Lots of variations on why GBP £ is called Sterling.
One thought is that Scots Royal Mint was located in Stirling so £ Sterling is derived from that as per Scots Pound.
As others have said it matters not a bit what currency and Indy Scotland uses as long as it has a central bank.
Remember one of the reasons the McCrone report was a state secret for so long was that it stated:
“It must be concluded therefore that revenues and large balance of payments gains would indeed accrue to a Scottish Government in the event of independence provided that steps were taken either by carried interest or by taxation to secure the Government ‘take’. Undoubtedly this would banish any anxieties the Government might have had about its budgetary position or its balance of payments. The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe with the exception perhaps of the Norwegian kroner. Just as deposed monarchs and African leaders have in the past used the Swiss franc as a haven of security, as now would the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge against inflation and devaluation and the Scottish banks could expect to find themselves inundated with speculative inflow of foreign funds.”
Also remember that Jim Rogers said in 2017 the GBP £1 would only be worth 80 US cents if Scotland voted for Independence in 2014.
UK only has a AA credit rating “with stable outlook” due to Scotland’s resources as collateral.
UK National Debt currently is scary for the Westminster Establishment to contemplate without Scottish resources:
https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/”
I have never seen so much complete BS, where do you dig it up ?
In what sort of childlike World do you imagine 5 million Scots where only half are the working poopulation support the other 63 Million in the UK ? If that sounds really stupid to you its because it is , try engaging your brain more.
You debt clock is just a website with a counter on it , completely meaningless otherwise unless you are completely devoid of cognitive thought.
@ Brian Doonthetoon. didn’t know that about Virgin keeping printing the Clydesdale notes. Good to know.
The piece by Smith could have been written yesterday I very much doubt if anything has changed a few people here have said ok but it was just after the referendum so the SNP were right to concentrate on Holyrood fair enough point taken.
The only problem with that is I believe most folk thought ok we lost this time now dust yourself down learn from the mistakes and start again , but by the looks of it the SNP took that as final we lost get over it just walk away and never visit independence again if that’s their opinion what’s the fkn point of the SNP ? .
Adding insult to injury a ring fenced INDY ref fund was launched what the fk was that for if they didn’t intend following through that’s when the deception started in line with the dragging of feet the excuses Two Tory PMs said no so it was a shrug of the shoulders and better luck next time crap .
I believe Alex has so terrified the current SNP management by promoting ALBA in an attempt to return to the main aim of the SNP and that is a independent country and they don’t bloody like it and people are finding out they have been fooled big time by this version of the SNP and Smith appears to voice the opinion of the top management including Princess Nicola .
That’s why ALBA exist the only reason they have had to form is because of this attitude because everyone is fed up bloody waiting.
@Captain Yossarian says:
5 April, 2021 at 10:12 pm
“David Caledonia – one of the most depressing photographs you will ever see if of the foodbank at George Square in the snow. Literally hundreds of people queuing for food in freezing temperatures. In the meantime, Nicola Sturgeon has hundreds of pairs of £500/pair shoes. I’ve said many times that this country is turning into Imelda Marcos and the Phillipines. Corruption and malfeasance surround us everywhere.”
Its worrying how many others can’t see this though or just turn their heads and blame others instead , well its US that is responsible for this happeneing not people south of Gretna.Scot Gov has more Limos thanks to Nicola , how many foodbanks would these have funded FFS ?https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/4619446/first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-blasted-car-trips-climate-emergency/
Shocked @ 10.57 pm
Totally agree with Shocked, we are between a rock and a hard place. I want Sturgeon, Murrell, Wolffe and the others to be arrested now and removed from office but that is not going to happen nor will they resign. The only way they can stay safe from the retribution that must surely come is to stay in power and they will cling on like limpets. They are corrupt and have committed criminal acts as any objective view of recent shenanigans would conclude but so many of our fellow Yessers are in denial and, despite all the evidence to the contrary, still think Sturgeon will deliver independence. Firstly she has no intention whatsoever of leading Scotland to independence and secondly, if by some miracle she did, would you want to live in the new Scottish Wokeland.
I had decided to do what I could to dissuade friends and relatives from voting SNP in the hope that enough people would see what she is and vote her out of power. To me 5 years of unionist control at Holyrood would be preferable to another 5 years of Sturgeon and the total destruction of the will to live for many Yessers. She would not have survived this and there was every chance the SNP would have been cleaned out or a new party would take over the mantle. Then along comes AS and gives us hope again that we might be able to force Sturgeon to push for independence and control her worst excesses. This only works if the SNP/Green alliance cannot secure a majority at Holyrood without Alba. Regrettably the polls are indicating an outright SNP majority or at least continuance of the status quo with the Greens propping up an SNP government. If that happens Alba’s presence at Holyrood will be ineffectual. Much as I admire AS and wish Alba well I cannot vote SNP on the constituency ballot and I suspect many feel the same.
Rest assured there will come a day, probably sooner than we might think, when the whole rotten house of cards will come crashing down. The full extent of what this low life has done will be exposed for all to see and many of them will be jailed for lengthy terms and banned from future public office. The catalyst may well be the financial collapse of the SNP. I believe this is imminent.
Mitch
Independence is step 1
Step 2 will be a transition period of perhaps 2 years
Currency will be dealt with before hand, financials will be put in place.
As to the rate of Scotland borrowing it will likely be quite favourable because the country has over many years of working with a set budget have consistently returned a higher GDP than England
(my personal preference will be the Scottish pound so that we are no held back by Englands decisions, trickier to get going but doable.
Name one country that toiled for Independence and has become a failed state ?
Nally Anders says:
5 April, 2021 at 8:41 pm
An absolute belter from Craig Murray.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/04/the-strange-convulsion-in-scottish-politics/
It’s an excellent piece by Craig Murray, but mibbe I can illuminate a couple of points he touches on without necessarily fully grasping?
1) The reason Nicola Sturgeon, Ian Blackford etc. are cool with Hillary Clinton, Alistair Campbell, neocon regime change in Syria, monstering Russia, cosying up to MI5 etc. and palpably less enthusiastic about Scottish independence is because they are globalists and not nationalists. Globalism is the doctrine of the establishment, that’s why the establishment is cool with Nicola and the gang. Alex Salmond – who once passionately and correctly stood against the folly of attacking Yugoslavia – is a nationalist and not a globalist. That’s why he’s Public Enemy Number Wan.
2) Globalism is the doctrine of the new establishment, but wokeness is its evangelical creed. There’s no better way to grease the chute for the unhindered ascendancy of international big business and its technocratic hirelings than to fracture and destroy any competing source of shared identity that might form the basis of effective resistance to the plan. So when Craig muses:
The relentless pursuit of gender identity politics has led to the peculiar fracture in the Independence movement over trans rights, where both sides of the debate invent utterly unreasonable positions and attribute them to the other side.
He’s misunderstanding what he’s seeing. First, the entire “trans” thing is complete bullshit, a fringe disorder that’s been weaponised by cynical and evil people. Men aren’t women and nobody is born in the “wrong” body. People suffering from gender confusion need our help, but instead they’re being encouraged to destroy themselves because it serves an agenda.
Second, it’s not an accident, or a coincidence, that the SNP’s enthusiasm for wokey-woo has waxed as its last dregs of enthusiasm for nationalism have waned. It’s art and part of the same plan.
A society, if it can even be called that, of atomised and emasculated liars who are terrified of being denounced and imprisoned for “transphobia”, “racism”, or even – as some feminist activists unwisely hope – “misogyny” isn’t going to be in any position to do a damn thing about the future our betters have planned for us. They’ll be far too busy being at each others’ throats over trivial or imaginary bollocks/ladybollocks to even begin to understand what is being stolen from them in broad daylight.
@Daisy Walker 5 April, 2021 at 6:56 pm
“America went to war because of a threat to the ‘petro/dollar’.
Scotland’s a major producer of oil.
If Scotland was to utilise either the Dollar – it might get support from the USA.
Or make a Scot currency on a par with the Norweigian currency – could also have clout.
With 60% of European oil reserves in Scotland’s territorial waters – the idea that Europe would not be pleased to see us back in one form or another is just silly. The fact that it would piss of Britain/England at Westminster would just be the icing on the cake.
And for the greens in us all – using that 60% to ensure the 25% renewable potential was harnessed would also be a good thing.
Good job Alex is on hand to guide on these types of things – its a bit out of wee Nicla’s league… she can’t even find the £600,000 stuffed down the sofa.”
More Gibberish. Scotland isn’t a Major Oil producer in World terms we are tiny and one of the highest cost producers in the world, higher cost means less profit , less profit means less or no taxes to pay for other stuff.
We won’t be adopting the Dollar
and we won’t be inventing a new currency and just “giving it the same value as as the Norways currency” FFS have you any small idea of how any sort economics actually works ?
Don,
Let me guess, Scotland is shite at everything.
Does that cover it or is there more?
@Red
Forewarned is forewarned.
Don , Norway has higher costs and similar Oil reserves that Scotland, would you care to explain where the 1 trillion Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund came from. Between five million people
it fairly beats the UK’s 2 Trillion debt and lets not forget they are still despite promises from then Chancellor Brown using dodgy accounting practices so that the Public Sector Pension Obligations and the PFi contracts Are not counted, if they were over a billion gbp would be added tonUK Debt.
Somebody obviously doesn’t grasp what Brent Crude is. They wouldn’t name a whole oil index after a North Sea Oil Field if it was such shit in production and quality terms. If we didn’t have the stuff then the English Tories would have ditched us decades ago. We see you Yoon.
Gone right handed says:
5 April, 2021 at 7:46 pm
Hello from Lincolnshire. So, the Alba party is polling 4%. Either Mr Salmond’s face or reputation gang’s afore him, or whatever you North British say. Either way, he’s got a big hill to climb.
Another English visitor here…
The latest poll had Alba on 6% (up from 3%) so they’re further up the hill than you think.
The Two Most Popular Grades of Crude Oil
When it comes to physical oil, there are different grades.??
The most popular traded grades are Brent North Sea Crude (commonly known as Brent crude) and West Texas Intermediate (commonly known as WTI). Brent refers to oil that is produced in the Brent oil fields and other sites in the North Sea.
Brent crude’s price is the benchmark for African, European, and Middle Eastern crude oil. The pricing mechanism for Brent dictates the value of roughly two-thirds of the world’s crude oil production.
Oil contains sulfur, and the percentage of sulfur in crude oil dictates the amount of processing needed to refine the oil into energy products. “Sweet crude” is a term that refers to crude oil that has less than 1% sulfur.??
The sulfur content of both Brent and WTI is well under 1%, making them both “sweet.” They are also less dense (“lighter”) than many of the crude oils extracted elsewhere. Both of these characteristics make them easier to refine and more attractive to petroleum product producers.
But according to Yoons and otehrn
Oops.
According to Yoons and other anti Scottish bigots oor oil is obviously shite or has run oot or something else equally shite. We weren’t all knitted by oor mammies.
According to Nicola’s allies , the Greens, fossil fuel such as oil is bad and should be phased out within 5 years.
O/T but I do hope that Joanna Cherry is on the way to better health. I have no doubt that there are those who see her as a bigger threat to the ‘Union’ than Ms Sturgeon.
Traditionally, hign profile lawyers who cause embarrassment to the British State do not tend fare well.
‘to’ fare well. Farewell, it’s past my bedtime
Alyn Smith makes me want to puke.
That selfie with Sturgeon, the conspiracy criminal, and Alasdair Camobell, the war criminal, is equally repellant.
Famous15 says:
5 April, 2021 at 8:36 pm
It would be very beneficial if some here read the banned LSE report on independence.
Boris banned it. Wings readers could reproduce it.
You can read it here on Grouse Beaters blog.
https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2021/04/03/publish-and-be-damned/
Kcor says:
5 April, 2021 at 8:38 pm
The top priority is surely to get rid of Sturgeon, not the bloody currency.
Reply
Do you have to repeat yourself over & over again on each & every thread here on Wings?
We all know you want to vote Nicola out of her seat in Glasgow.
Wouldn’t it be more beneficial for you to spread your words on other sites, thus casting your net further afield.
ALBA crowdfunder @ £20,350 of its £50.000 total, with 10 days to go, please support ASAP..
annie says:
5 April, 2021 at 4:57 pm
And yet they still had the bloody cheek to set up the Indy Ref2 “ringfenced”crowdfunder. There are just no words to describe them.
Which meant that the crowd-funder was under false pretences from the get go,and their prevarication kicking Indyref yet another 5 years down the road reinforces there was never any intention at the top to deliver what it was collected for.
The SNP has been degenerating into what it is today since 2015.10 years of rot.
Hate to sound religious, but I was blind until Wings opened my eyes.Only way forward for Scotland is with Salmond,ISP,AFI.
@Famous15
Aye, a written constitution written by the corrupt lying criminals we currently call a government. Are you deranged? You clearly have no understanding of what a constitution is or indeed why the fact the UK has an unwritten flexible constitution is a good thing. Go do a constitutional law course.
Scotland will not even be fit for independence until the entire Sturgeon leadership cabal are in jail and as far from power as humanly possible and all of their corruption has been scrubbed from our institutions of government.
An independent Scotland now would be a very dangerous place and I for one have no wish to live somewhere like that, if I did I would move to Belarus.
So all of you need to pack in your ridiculous debate about currency, grow up, face the facts, take some honesty pills or do whatever else it is you need to do to come to your senses to realise what a dangerous place we are in. We are standing on the edge of the precipice and at the moment you lot want us to dive headfirst into the flaming inferno of corruption and criminality below because you can’t think of anything else or admit to yourselves that you have been played. The New SNP must be eradicated for Scotland’s sake, we must exterminate corruption, jail the perpetrators, then rebuild and have a government that proves to people that good governance can be achieved. That was always how I thought independence would be achieved, not by telling lies and conning people into the biggest mistake of their lives.
The relentless pursuit of gender identity politics has led to the peculiar fracture in the Independence movement over trans rights, where both sides of the debate invent utterly unreasonable positions and attribute them to the other side.
I admire Craig for his stand on Salmond and other issues but he is wrong here.
I strongly disagree that not wanting men to participate in women’s sports or run rape crisis centres because they claim to be women is an “utterly unreasonable position.”
I think it’s very reasonable.
@ Shocked: in saying Scotland would be dangerous if independent but how marvellous the UK’s unwritten constitution is, you demonstrate a capacity to ignore the greater evils currently [and always previously] perpetrated domestically and internationally by the UK government.
Please leave we idealistic pragmatists in peace to work out how to improve things in our small portion of the globe. 🙂
@Red – 5 April, 2021 at 11:44 pm
Consider yourself just awarded 100 upticks.
In fact, if Rev Stu could find himself able to implement a comment ranking feature, you would be in pole position for the Best Comment Of April 2021 award.
And it’s only the 6th of the month.
So in 2015 the SNP under the new leadership of Sturgeon was telling us through Smith that a referendum was off the table and with it independence.
I still can’t get my head around the change in Sturgeon in doing a 180 degree turn, it’s like an enviormentalist who has spent all their life fighting for a greener planet then suddenly promoting polution, the change is that stark.
Whatever the reason for this change Sturgeon and SNP will go down in history as the betrayers.
Nationalists have only themselves to blame for the current situation. They have blindly supported Sturgeon and her cabal, allowing them to trash our country in the forlorn hope that she will deliver independence. Anyone who has been paying attention, knows Sturgeon will never deliver, as she has grown too comfortable and complacent with power. Have we ever had a more arrogant and condescending FM ?
Surely the key to independence is to convince the electorate, through example, that the competence and ability exists to improve the country, instead of trying to pull the wool over their eyes with deceit and lies ? Nationalists have been conned big time by Sturgeon and her cabal, who’ve promised them another indyref every year since 2015. At every election since 2014, all Sturgeon has had to do is roll out indyref2 and the “we hate the Tories” mantra, and you all fall for it, hook, line and sinker.
There are seldom or never any policies to improve our lot, just a barrowload of empty promises that are never delivered.
The key to independence is to convince the rest by getting our country into a position where people can see that it may be worth their while to take the leap, and presenting us with a warts and all case, in order for us to make our own judgement, instead of majoring on drivel about colonialism, grievance and how if others can do it, then why can’t we ? Nationalist need to remove the scales from their eyes, and take the pegs off their noses when voting, and stop blindly supporting an FM and cabal who have taken you all for a ride. It’s time to get rid of the corrupt Surgeon/Murrell party, and start again. You’re being conned, and if you hold your nose whilst voting SNP or wheesht for Indy, then you have only yourselves to blame.
As others have commented, too many yoon trolls on here now. see how long one of us would last on a yoon website.
@Sarah
I’m a lawyer, I studied constitutional law, are you, did you?
The unwritten constitution works and it is why the UK is one of the most politically stable countries in the world, as circumstances change the constitution evolves to keep pace.
A constitution written by a bunch of criminals is the worst thing that could ever happen. A charter for corruption and law breaking that can never be amended once in place. It is the worst possible thing that could happen to Scotland right now.
Shocked
You are perfectly right, we can never move forward until the entire corrupt bunch are kicked out and prosecuted.
Oil and gas exports also gives an independent Scotland a trade surplus.
Off topic, but the topic I’m always drawn back to…
Today, 6th April 1320, is the date written on “modern” Scotland’s birth certificate; the Declaration of Arbroath.
@Shocked
….so we must rely upon the decency of and old Etonian lothario.
Mikey d
You’re a classic example of a nationalist who refuses to accept that others have a view that’s different from yours. You are of course entitled to your opinion, so please allow others to be entitled to theirs.
A consistent trade surplus is a key goal for an independent Scotland.
We should be focusing on investing in those industries which are export oriented as part of the route towards independence.
I notice that the Alba party is writing policy on the path to independence at this time.
The SNP is still tied up in its program of restructuring society!
Just watched the most disgraceful attack on your breakfast show.
Garroway repeatedly interrupted Alex Salmond refusing to let him answer any
questions out to him.
The whole item became a personal attack and devoid of information regarding the new Alba Party or Scottish independence.
Alex did manage to squeeze in that after 2 years of police investigation they found no evidence.
2 Judges, 2 Committees and a Jury mainly composed of women pronounced Salmond had no case to answer.
Can we establish with Garroway why she refused to accept the ruling of Scottish law after much deliberation?
She conveniently picked out one poll
to display that had a negative perspective and chose not to present the polls showing a 10 day old party winning seats and making up 80 Holyrood seats all supporting independence.
Conveniently only one allegedly viewers
comment was asking Salmond to step down even though he was proved innocent and his party is rowing faster than any other?
Do they expect us to believe no viewer
made supportive comments about Salmond?
She ended with a stupid question regarding Sturgeon and Salmond being able to work with each other?
Holyrood will vote on bills leading toward independence. Trust me that all members of both parties will vote for it and never feel the need to hold hands doing it.
A disgraceful waste of an interview with a leading politician and a propaganda stitch up by the board of ITV.
One of the benefits of independence would be to have unbiased and probing questions where politicians get to deliver their answers in civilised manner.
Like Pierce, they won’t see me again.
Andy Ellis
It’s no longer the “too wee, too poor” schtick.
It’s “too corrupt, too incompetent”.
Try to keep up.
BTW, this is not a claim that Scots can’t manage their own affairs, so don’t come back at me with that. This is a claim that any Scots capable of managing Scotland’s affairs have not been and are not now much interested in the political life.
A responsible, organised, astute Scottish Government with a rock-solid majority would have spent the past few years doing something about that.
The SNP have not. Go figure.
Shocked says:
6 April, 2021 at 7:58 am
@Sarah
I’m a lawyer, I studied constitutional law, are you, did you?
The unwritten constitution works….
But works to who’s advantage?
Westminster’s “convention” on Parliamentary Sovereignty facilitates the unconstitutional subjugation of Scotland because what is properly an irreconcilable paradox, two irreconcilably incompatible doctrines on sovereignty, is cynically circumvented by a workaround convention of unwritten rules which colonial adventurers interpret as license to make up their own rules.
The Union is a fraud and always has been. It is a lie to say the dissimilar sovereign entities were “joined” when the reality is Scotland’s sovereignty was deemed the lesser of the two, and would thus be subjugated under a “British” sovereignty which was in truth, just a continuation of English Sovereign doctrine.
That’s what happened, making the Treaty of Union a fallacy, and a deception which needs propped up and held together by improvised ad hoc conventions which allow lawyers to pretend justice has been served.
Scotland has a Constitution. The UK has a convention. The UK’s convention is to subjugate Scotland’s Constitution and hide that cynical act of unlawful colonialism behind their magicians cape of unwritten rules.
In that hollow and soulless respect, aye, the unwritten constitution works a treat.. But not for Scotland.
@Shocked – I have just sent an Email to my MSP, who is the forensic MSP from Dumbarton. It was very short and I attached an explaination of the rules of the Engineering Council of the UK.
These rules are applied all over the UK and indeed all over the world. The UK are worldwide leaders in engineering and always have been.
Guess the only country where they do not apply? So, we are worldwide leaders all of a sudden, not in engineering, but in fecking-up engineering and finding a legal route out of fixing it.
I share your obvious frustration. Scotland is in a mess and our lawyers are arseholes.
I was on a train to Greenock a couple of weeks ago, suddenly this guy came up to a chap sitting across from me, can I use your mobile phone he said, I dropped mine on the track and its broken he said with a tear in his eye, and showed the chap his broken phone.
Certainly the chap said, and handed over his phone, and the guy called some female to tell her when he would arrive at his destination, he was telling her where he was at that moment, naming the stations we where passing.
Then he said, I have to go, and explained he had borrowed the chaps phone because his was broken.
He had an english accent, so I called out to him, where you from pal, he said, Bristol mate, ahhhh Bristol I said, which I thought was quite witty on the spur of the moment, surprised nobody laughed, maybe my humour doesn’t travel very well lol
Anyway, Bristol was having some problems at that time, but I could not recall what it was that was going on there, not that it matters really, but all I have to say is this, I went to school in england with my brother, I was eleven, he was twelve at that time 1962, we had a great time, made lots of friends and was sorry to come back to scotland, but all good things come to and end I suppose.
So to any english people on wings, we don’t hate you, never have, but your imperialistic governments since Edward 1, have caused all the troubles right up to the present day, goodness me, that was some tea party in Boston btw, anyone for tea lol
King george commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away
La la la la, la la la over the hills and far away
@breeks
It works to all our advantage as it puts politicians under the oversight of the courts, something that we have all seen has failed to happen in Scotland.
Further if we had a written constitution like germany or Spain there would never have been an indy ref in the first place.
I studied constitutional law under the man who actually wrote the effing book, Prof Colin Munro, so park your conspiracy bullshit as it won’t work with me as I actually know what I am talking about and deal with facts rather than fantasy.
@Breeks at 8.26am
Good points and one of the results of this so called Act of Union was Scotland’s Parliament was dissolved and moved to London where the number of Scots MPs are outnumbered by the English ones by a long shot. Hence powers to Scotland was lost. Although this has partly been mitigated by the current Holyrood Parliament it’s no where near what it was before the Act of Union as we all well know.
The other major issue is ALL of Scotland’s revenues go to the U.K. Treasury and we also know that the bulk of this money is used by the U.K. as their revenues with a smaller handout returned to Scotland based on the Barnett formula. The loss of Scotland’s revenue since the Act of Union has been a major issue in where we are today.
As you repeatly point out in your posts Scotland and it’s people are Sovereign are as the English people. Hence the will of the Scottish people to do as they wish is Sovereign. If they as a majority wish to leave the Act of Union and hence the U.K. it’s their choice no one else’s. Not even the other Sovereign state England.
Shocked says:
6 April, 2021 at 8:45 am
@breeks
It works to all our advantage
No. It doesn’t.
It’s a ruse to keep Scotland subjugated.
It might as well be chain round our neck, where the better it works means the tighter we are bound.
@John Main 8.23 am
With all due respect that’s a different issue. You may not be touting the “too wee, too poor” trope but many still are. As for your take on it, I happen to agree at least in part. I have no axe to grind in favour of the SNP having left the party in 2018. I have joined Alba because I hope they may make a difference.
Your analysis seems a tad too “broad brush” to me. In general we get the representation we deserve. I can’t believe Scotland is really congenitally doomed to sub-par representation because ANY of those capable of managing our affairs have decided politics is too dirty or corrupt or uninteresting to make a career of it. We have our saints and sinners just like any other polity on earth. We shouldn’t expect them to be plaster saints, but we should absolutely hold them to high standards.
I share your concern about the lack of action by the current SNP government over the past 6 years. We can either do something about that or just give up and accept what…the status quo? Some newly promised devolution? Being part of Thursday exciting post brexit “Empire v0.2”. That’d be a hard “No” from me.
The SNP isn’t the independence movement. Whatever it’s current travails, this to will pass. Either the party reforms itself and regains the trust of those it has alienated, or it continues on its current path and sees large sections of its support slough off and join other parties. Throughout history Scots have often been their own worst enemies and have contrived to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. We’re hardly unique in that though are we? We have an opportunity to do things differently in this coming session of Parliament, but depending on the results in May those opposed to the current SNP leadership may have to accept that we need to be building support for 2026. Some may find the delay intolerable, but we are where we are. We can’t force people to vote for our preferred option.
Tenruh said at 6:39 am:
“ALBA crowdfunder @ £20,350 of its £50.000 total, with 10 days to go, please support ASAP”.
It’ll get there, but would probably benefit from a late shove by someone influential to get it over the line and beyond ..
Alex Salmond being interviewed about The Declaration of Arbroath (6th April 1320),
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwKSxjiwZps
Shocked says:
6 April, 2021 at 8:45 am
I studied constitutional law under the man who actually wrote the effing book, Prof Colin Munro, so park your conspiracy bullshit as it won’t work with me as I actually know what I am talking about and deal with facts rather than fantasy.
Excellent. We have an expert in the room.
Tell me constitutional expert, how do you join the linear, top down divine Sovereignty of a Monarch appointed by God, with the grass roots, ground up, popular sovereignty which bestows sovereignty upon each and every person born Scottish as a birthright? Who are the two made compatible and joined with neither suffering subjugation?
My contention is that such a joining is not possible. Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereign Birthright is a Gordian knot which cannot be reconciled. The Treaty of Union and “joining” of sovereignties is thus a myth. A lie. A con. It’s a mask which serves to obscure the thieving of Scotland’s Constitutional Rights.
The reason the “Convention” of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty MUST remain unwritten is because writing it down would force the colonial deception to be codified in black and white, and the treacherous subjugation seen stripped naked exposed.
Over to our Constitutional expert to point out the error in my logic…
“I share your concern about the lack of action by the current SNP government over the past 6 years. We can either do something about that or just give up and accept what…the status quo?”
Go back 20-years, Andy. Is Scotland working better now than it was then? There were disparities between Scotland and England back then too and, generally, Scotland was performing better than England. Do you think that is still true?
If the trajectory of the next 20-years is anything like the last 20-years, then we are heading for big problems. That’s what I am seeing here.
Effigy , you have to remember to whom she is married , the poor soul who has been in hospital for the best part of a year but was a government adviser in I think Blairs time.
It would be interesting to know how she might deal with a serial adulterer were she given the opportunity.
I don’t know why those who mealy mouth the chosen and attack those the chosen choose can call what they do ‘journalism’.
The notion of an unwritten constitution is ridiculous if you think about it.
If it is unwritten then what is it?
It can mean anything and all things to all people.
It can’t be defined.
In fact it doesn’t exist and never was or is.
The Union Jack Brigade are out in force today,there must be a manifesto launch or something happening somewhere.
Patrick ,the majority of the population have already taken the leap you refer to at 7.32 as demonstrated when we sent 56 MPs to Westminster ,the problem was the charlatans and criminals stayed mostly on the other side.Yes I refer to Sturgeons Holyrood SNP and the many imposters in Westminster. The problem for them now is we can look over,see them and know exactly who they are and what they are.
@Breeks
I’m not even going to get into this with you, you live some alternate fantasy world. everything you have said is utter nonsense. I am a serious educated person who believes in independence for my own reasons, I don’t cling to some bs fantasy about the people of Scotland being sovereign. You have no understanding that Scotland is the UK, it is not part of the UK nor is it a colony. The effect of the act of Union is clear, it extinguished the existing government country and made one new country called the UK. . Us Scots have exactly the same rights as any other UK citizen and by way the constituencies are drawn we actually have more say than the average English person as we have more MP’s per head of population. Maybe your nonsense works in the local yes club with people who don’t have the first idea of how the UK legal framework operates but it doesn’t work with me, it’s just nonsense.
@stephen
It’s not ridiculous, it does exist in a collection of court judgements, precedents and parliamentary rules etc etc. it also allows flexibility. Without the UK unwritten constitution there would never have been an Indy ref. Go away and read some books.
A constitution written by a bunch of criminals and gangsters in the SNP would be the worst thing we could ever have.
Shocked,
There is no British Constitution whether you have studied constitutional law or not.
Let me explain in a way you may be able to understand.
The British Constitution exists in the same way that Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck exist.
I hope that’s cleared things up for you.
@breastplate
There is. Go read a book.
Shocked
Nonsense.
Court judgements and parliamentary rules are just court judgements and parliamentary rules.
They bear no evidence of an unwritten constitution.
How could they if there is no such thing?
Show me where I can find it.
There have been plenty of political theorists who have written books seeking to legitimise the sovereignty of the king or the citizen.
Some like Hobbes changed their mind as can be seen in his frontispiece for Leviathan with the King in all his regalia made up of all his people.
These theorists base their arguments on a mythical social contact in some Golden Age.
Ultimately the whole thing is just an act of the legitimising of established authority.
Only the gullible believe
What sort of book, a comic?
@stephen
I studied constitutional law under Prof Colin Munro, he was my actual tutor, he literally wrote the effing book on constitutional law.
You are a fantasist. I won’t be responding to you on this subject again. Go read some books instead of wasting my time.
@breastplate
Yes one with lots of big pictures and as few words as possible would appear to be your limit.
No wonder we lost in 2014 with fools like you on our side. Independence is a serious matter that requires serious questions to be asked and answered. Fairy tales don’t work because anyone with an IQ higher than a amoeba see through them.
Shocked,
My apologies, this is harder than I thought.
Let me try again, here goes, because something is written about it does not mean it exists.
As corroboration, I asked God and She agrees with me.
I hope that’s helped.
Shocked
I seriously doubt that.
The way you write, construct sentences and the lack of content in what you say betrays you.
The isolator
Another nationalist who attacks anyone who doesn’t agree with them. You’ll need to explain to me why I’m in the Union Jack brigade, just because I remain to be convinced by the current shallow argument for independence ?
The nationalist party’s may have the most seats, but they don’t have most votes. Even Sturgeon doesn’t deny that, and that’s why she continues to pull the wool over peoples eyes. Talk is easy, but delivering the talk is not.
Floating voters will not be convinced by grievance, deceit and no plan. As I’ve previously stated, the whole independence movement needs reset, and needs to demonstrate that independence is viable through proper management and improvement of our country, which has gone backwards under successive nationalist governments.
As long as Sturgeon and her cabal continue to get the support of nationalists who can’t see the woods for the trees, then you’re dream of independence will get further and further out of reach. The SNP have no plans, no ambition and no competency to deliver independence. By all means, hold you’re nose and vote for them, but you’re only deluding yourself.
Patrick,
You seem to have no sense of irony, hypocrisy, kettles or the colour black.
Using the term “nationalists” pejoratively show off your political undergarments.
I suppose we can’t expect too much better from you British nationalists.
@Craig Murray says: 5 April, 2021 at 10:16 pm
“It may be news to you, but Wilson was certainly part of the plot, I had dinner with him and Ian Hamilton and others involved, some 40 years ago, when they were reminiscing about it.”
I tend to be skeptical about such historical revisionism/”later revelations”, because if taken at face value, there were a million people at the first gig by the Sex Pistols, ten million bought the Velvet Underground’s first album, twenty million were at Woodstock and the entire of the SNP took part in Operation Dark Harvest!
[Granted, there was another and completely idiotic attempt made on the stone on 5th Sept 1974, but that was by an Englishman living in Scotland using a “folding wheelbarrow” (!), but I digress.]
I dare say for reasons of politesse (esp. over dinner) Hamilton may have conceded “others” were involved, yet history records only five were directly involved (four on the raid), and Wilson was certainly not one of those.
One also finds oneself frowning in your claim of Hamilton “reminiscing” about it 40 years ago. It’s long been said that after giving his account to Life Magazine on 14th May 1951, Ian Hamilton QC refused point blank to speak another word about his part in the raid until the turn of the century, in order not to jeopardise his legal career any further and to preserve its impact.
But hey ho, tales do tend to change with the years and the telling.
“Your running down the history of Radio Free Scotland is graceless, uncalled for and plain wrong-headed. I do not know your motive.”
I wasn’t “running it down”, merely stating the fact is it was far from unique by the primitive broadcast mechanisms of the time, where such high jinks on the airwaves exploiting loopholes were more common than people today realise – one takes it you have heard of pirate radio, which wasn’t merely confined to certain North Sea ships?
Most such exploits were done after “close down”, but some too things too far. For example, in 1958, A.K. Chesterton’s so-called League of Empire Loyalists hacked into the BBC’s evening weather broadcasts in the London area to deliver a weather themed anti-NATO parody. Post Office engineers spent considerable time trying to track down the transmitter, but failed to locate the top floor flat in Kensington used for the purpose.
My “motive”? Don’t be a fool, sir. Not every commentator of dissent is an MI5 mole, a Scotland in Union plant (actually I think they qualify more as an inedible vegetable) or what not. Sometimes a raised eyebrow is nothing more than a raised eyebrow.
Breastplate, your nit picking fools no one. Surely the supreme irony is nationalists voting for the SNP, in the hope that they’ll deliver the Nirvana of independence, when nothing could be further from the truth. As the Rev Stu would say, you’ve not been paying attention.
Sturgeon and her cabal have no plans for another indyref, and this has been the case for quite some time. In terms of hypocrisy ? This is off the scale when it comes to Sturgeon and the SNP.
Patrick,
I’m sorry if this is confusing for you.
Don’t look now, but I think you are a nationalist too.
Patrick
Many of us agree that the SNP have been pursuing an agenda of societal change rather than following the path towards independence.
The SNP were at a highwatermark anyway.
Sturgeon and her coterie have overreached themselves and may well be voted out.
This would give the SNP the opportunity to change direction and to start to put in place the policies necessary for independence to be successful.
Alba are showing the way.
The independence movement is not just the SNP.
Andy Ellis – 6 April, 2021 at 8:57 am
Thank you for your reasoned and calm reply.
I too believe that logically, the 5 years from 2021 must be a time for planning and re-building, so 2026 has to be the target.
As others have observed, if you don’t believe the current SNP want Scottish Independence in any form, then SNP 1 Alba 2 won’t deliver a supermajority for Scottish Independence. Simples.
@Clavie Cheil 6 April, 2021 at 12:15 am
“According to Yoons and other anti Scottish bigots oor oil is obviously shite or has run oot or something else equally shite. We weren’t all knitted by oor mammies”
Its not the amount of Oil under the North Sea is the issue its the cost of extracting it , Scottish Sector is the most expensive in the World near enough to extract profitably which means it will be hit hardest first and become unprofitable when we suffer the great Oil Glut of 2030 when Cars are electric and demand for petrol fuel drops like a stone.Its only the laws of supply and demand that currently holds the Oil price up in territory that keeps it worthwhile extracting from the North Sea when it isn’t it won’t be.
@David Caledonia 5 April, 2021 at 10:00 pm
“Its reckoned scotland is the 6th richest country in the world now, not in the future now, 600 foodbanks for the 6th richest country in the world, and that concludes the case for the defence your honour”
Could you share the source of that information to me ?
@Mitch 5 April, 2021 at 8:05 pm
“Captain Yossarian:
You cannot use sterling and also be independent. In fact, you would be ‘managed’ by Westminster more than you are now.
Also, you cannot either use the Euro or a new currency, without serious and long term austerity.
You have been told this time and time again. Good luck lads, you will need it.”
There are huge risks to not being in a proper currency Union and Sterlingisation doesn’t cut it
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/has-salmond-just-shattered-sturgeon-s-currency-delusion-
de brus 05.04 @ 9.46pm
Truth and honest method must be the motivators.
We have been battling for 701 documented years.
Our heritage has come to us through toil and tears.
We Scots are no strangers to guile nor to betrayal.
We were so near to victory in 2014.
Our legendary stoicism must not fail now.
We must gather strength, keep in mind the faith of our forefathers and grab this chance, when the opposition is weak and dispersed, to claim victory, to rebuild Alba.
To show the world our brave new country.
@Pixywine ” So the scumbags Sturgeon……”
So well said ! There is an even more sinister agenda going on here and Nicola Sturgeon is well in with the globalist fascist nutters.
I wonder what the elites inc. her bestie Kilary Clinton promised her ? ( as she’s cleary not being threatened to do any of this, it’s obvious she’s enjoying it too much. ) What the silly b**ch doesn’t understand is that she will be thrown under the bus by them once they have got her to tear family and friends apart with this passport pish.
It was well known day 1 after the failure of the first indy ref that the SNP were pushing the “we should just move on and must accept the results” line. It was only Yes campaigners and other independent (ironic) groups that wanted to keep the energy going and gear up for indy ref2 and not lose ground.
Years later and what have SNP done? Dangled a carrot and asked for money. They only care about making sure there’s more SNP voters and more SNP money for them and theirs.