The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Quoted for truth #16

Posted on May 20, 2013 by

The Sunday Mail, 19 May 2013:

“Labour are meant to be convincing Scots that we can trust them with our future. On this evidence, you would not trust them to go to the garage for chocolate.”

The Observer, 19 May 2013:

“The Scots are accustomed to having their views ignored in the British political system. Despite voting consistently for the left, Scotland has been governed by Labour for only 30 years out of 68. If England is set to elect the Conservatives, in other words, it’s hardly worth going out to vote in Scotland at all: we know what we’ll get.”

And today in QFT we’ve got three for the price of one.

Labour Representation Committee Youth, 18 May 2013:

“Currently, the Labour Party is a lumbering mess, incapable of offering serious opposition to a government with the smallest shred of a mandate in 100 years, and undemocratic to the point of farce. The party leadership is loathsome, poor at public speaking, and so desperate to drag the party to the right, in the search of an elusive ‘middle ground’, that they run the risk of needing only a new coat of paint to look identical to the Conservatives.

The recent attacks on the welfare state haven’t been resisted so much as wilfully aided by The Labour Party. In Scotland, the party leader herself is leading the baying pack of right wing pigs as they slobber over the idea of discarding aspects of the welfare state won for us by previous generations of the working class by the wayside.

The largely Labour funded Better Together campaign has descended into a confused and unsightly morass of jingoism and scaremongering showing that this party calling itself socialist and progressive is actually the exact opposite.”

These comments aren’t from nationalists, but from Labour members and a newspaper that’s been solidly behind Labour for as long as we’ve been alive. It’s hard to disagree.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

66 to “Quoted for truth #16”

  1. Dave McEwan Hill
    Ignored
    says:

    Something pretty startling going on.

  2. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    My flabber is gasted. Turning tide?

  3. megsmaw06
    Ignored
    says:

    Just wow, this is big. 

  4. Seasick Dave
    Ignored
    says:

    I think that by the time of the Referendum, you would have to be particularly blinkered or thrawn to vote No and to look forward to the ensuing consequences for Scotland.
     
    There is quite simply only one way to vote in September 2014.

  5. G H Graham
    Ignored
    says:

    Further into the article at …
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/19/scotland-tough-call-uk-eu-referendums
    is this little gem …
     
    While 36% of Scots polled said they supported independence from the UK under present circumstances (with 44% opposed), the yes vote soared to 44% (with 44% still opposed) when voters were asked how they would vote if it looked as though Britain was going to leave the EU.
     
    So the backbench revolt by the Conservatives and Labours stubbornness to say nothing on the matter of any consequence may in fact lead at least half of eligible Scots to vote by default for independence if they do indeed prefer to remain within Europe (whatever that really means anyway).
     
    Who knew? 
     
     

  6. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    This only confirms what my sneer knew all along and my sneer is never wrong, 
     
    the more right wing a person is the more I sneer,
    and I’ve found that people like Brown, Lamont,darling, and Alexander  are getting the sneer going  
    but doesn’t it make you feel like there is a future after all when the labour YOUTH movement can show their elders and betters?  the errors of their ways?

  7. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    o/t but thought I would let folks know I just raised a complaint against the Guardian for inaccurate and misleading comments in Angus Roxburgh’s article 
    where he claims the protesters were Scottish nationalists 3 days after it became public knowledge they were associated with the Labour party
    anyone care to join in giving them a kicking?

  8. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @John King
     
    Yep, dropped a hint on CiF last night that its getting bloody tiresome. They’ve simply chosen to ignore the facts and and plough on regardless. This is the title which posted, what, six articles on the incident? All with the same theme. They’ve got a bit invested in making a mountain out of a molehill.

  9. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    The largely Labour funded Better Together
     
    Wurraferk?
     
    Is Darling on a virtual salary of lunar proprtions which is being collaterised and traded as a new Solar System IOU?
     
    A boil is about to burst.
     
    Inpendence or bust, it is then.
    We live in interesting times.
     
     

  10. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    The Guardians article about the demonstration against Nigel Farage, was also a bit of a turning point…
     
    …I hope !

  11. Linda's Back
    Ignored
    says:

    How ironic that the UK Banking collapse is held up as a dire warning to those who want self determination when Better Together figurehead A Darling played a major role in bringing about the disaster.
    Alistair Darling  was the Chancellor responsible for banking regulation and its failure at the critical time of the first banking collapse Northern Rock and he was the Chancellor responsible for signing off the fatal RBS  / ABN Ambro deal when everyone knew RBS had paid too much to scupper Barclays and UK regulatory authorities headed by A Darling ignored fact that no  due diligence was done by RBS on a deal worth £49 billion before they gave its approval for world’s biggest bank take over  deal that brought about the collapse of the Royal Bank.
    In a BBC Today Programme Lecture on 2nd May 2012, the Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Mervyn King criticised the lack of action by Alistair Darling and the last Labour government in the earliest days of the banking crisis when the first UK Bank, sorry English bank, Northern Rock, failed, which King said could have cost up to one million people their jobs.   Decisive action would have at least mitigated the problems encountered by other Banks including HBOS and RBS some 10 months later. 

  12. bunter
    Ignored
    says:

    Good interview on GMS with Michael Moore regards Westminsters latest scare paper. Interviewer suggested that the paper was biased and asked about Healeys revelation about the oil and gas lies in the 70s and why should we trust westminster now. Moore on the back foot and good awkward questions.

  13. Horacesaysyes
    Ignored
    says:

     
    bunter says:
     
    20 May, 2013 at 8:15 am
     

    Good interview on GMS with Michael Moore regards Westminsters latest scare paper. Interviewer suggested that the paper was biased and asked about Healeys revelation about the oil and gas lies in the 70s and why should we trust westminster now. Moore on the back foot and good awkward questions.

     
    Having missed the interview, what was Moore’s answer to that?

  14. The Man in the Jar
    Ignored
    says:

    I am surprised that anyone is that surprised by these developments. To me this reads like typical Labour in-fighting. Like Tories in-fighting regarding Europe. Business as usual, keep it up!

  15. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    No wonder they wanted a snap referendum last year. It’s all coming out in the wash now, with more than a year to go. I cannae wait for the wite paper release in September. Checkmate!

  16. Les Wilson
    Ignored
    says:

    Early BBC Scotland news this morning had M. Moore spouting once more that we are too wee and to stupid to run our financial system and we need the “Strength”of the Bank of England other wise we may be unable to guarantee everything if  another financial  crash comes.

    Well let us consider, the UK debt is huge, the pound is rolling off the printing presses, this devalues our currency and causes inflation, but makes the debt a bit easier to handle for them.
    However It does not solve the debt issue. That is the real rUK problem and without oil revenue, it will get very much worse. This could lead “Sterling” to be devalued, perhaps overnight, an actual default of debt may also occur.

    We need to know that these issues are a real possibility, and we need to have a plan to cope with such an event. Being in a Sterling area we will be in the middle of the storm.

    We have under written Sterling for a very long time, Healey’s  confirmation of our suspicions ( well a lot of us knew this well! ) really bring home just how we have been cheated ( does not our Scottish ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s make you sick! ) and with Labour at the heart of it!.

    Healey says they would have went bust then, and we are going through a mirror image of back then, the same scaremongering, the same mis information, lies and cheating. So desperate to keep the oil revenue, they will do anything to stop a YES vote!

    Labour is once more at the heart of all this backed by all Unionist parties and the MSM not least inclusive with the BBC.
    WE WERE MUGGED THEN, WE WILL BE MUGGED AGAIN, IF WE VOTE NO!

    If we have any pride left, we cannot allow this to happen.
    Labour supporters need to rethink their allegiances, and see their party for the UK beast it has become, untrustworthy and despicable in their “defense” of the Scottish voters they are supposed to serve, by now even they must recognize what is going on.

    They need to make their feeling known and vote YES, or we all face the consequences far into the future, with a further deterioration of all aspects of Scottish life. 
     

  17. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Les, Moore was challenged on a number of issues. GMS later had George Matheson (ex chairmain, RBS) on to counter Moore’s arguments. Good interview, ended with the interviewer asking what influence Scotland would have (in an financial arrangement with a dominant Egnland). The answer was (parahrased) “considerably more than we have now”! Excellent. Vote yes for more influence.

  18. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    Linda’s Back
    In a BBC Today Programme Lecture on 2nd May 2012, the Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Mervyn King criticised the lack of action by Alistair Darling and the last Labour government in the earliest days of the banking crisis when the first UK Bank, sorry English bank, Northern Rock, failed, which King said could have cost up to one million people their jobs.   Decisive action would have at least mitigated the problems encountered by other Banks including HBOS and RBS some 10 months later.
     
    I think that McCavity at No 10 might have had a lot to do with that as well.
     
    Darling was Broon’s man and Broon was genetically incapable of taking a decision on his own, like a real big grown up human.
     
    There was, at that time, a lot evidence that Broon when at No 10 was still dictating what was happening at No 11 which had to be only to Broon’s benefit. However the ditherer that he is and the unassailable fact he was on weapon’s grade tranquillisers, surrounded by small armies of PR factions meant that hee haw was done.
     
    Darling’s real crime was not to have acted in the best interest of the British people and Country and to have placed the electability of the Labour Party above all else.
     
    Why Merv should be choosing now to get the boot into AD would be another article article’s worth and the intervention of Dennis Healy et al into giving a kicking to the Blair Broon years and Milipond’s future needs to be the subject of a doctoral thesis.
     
    Where is darling now, anybody seen if he is still alive ?
     
    I think he may have gone to the BIG Labour Think Bunker pouring over the polls, soundages and other suicide notes?

  19. Clydebuilt
    Ignored
    says:

    erver, 19 May 2013: “The Scots are accustomed to having their views ignored in the British political system.
     
    heard a journalist on bbc radio last few days making a similar point …….. that was that regardless of the make up of the Westminister government whether the UK was leaving Europe regardless if Lavour had moved to the right ……..That Scotland would not be put of being British and……as .they’ve voted labour for years knowing the tories would win.
    this all boils down to difficulties for the Unionist side wih the UKIP vote increasing, politics going to the right and leaving Eu noises from the Tories……all of which Scotland doesn’t want.   then there’s Lamont trying to persuade us that we should bring in cuts…..

    The Unionist camp have real difficulties…..without the biased media support the YES vote would win by a landslide.

  20. Clydebuilt
    Ignored
    says:

    The Unionist camp have real difficulties…..without the biased media support the YES vote would win by a landslide.
     
    so folks put as much effort into geting the message out as you do in commenting on websites …….me included

  21. Spout
    Ignored
    says:

    I agree, GMS actually did their job this morning with the latest tiring scare story.
    Gary Robertson (I don’t find myself saying this too often…) was excellent in his interview with Moore: allowing Moore to go through his rehearsed lines, then asking about bias in the report and then, quite excellently quoting the Sunday Post Healey article  – actually saying that we were lied to before to squash Scottish self-determination – what credibility does the Treasury have now….did Moore condemn the earlier Treasury lies….?
    A very uncomfortable last few minutes for Moore as Mr Robertson kept pressing the point until the end of the interview.
     

  22. Doug Daniel
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve commented on the Angus Roxburgh article, because he casually mentions the possibility of Scotland adopting the Euro. As we all know, no one can simply join the Eurozone without meeting the convergence criteria first. I’ve also tweeted him directly, asking why he said this, with a link to the page on the European Commission’s own website explaining the convergence criteria.
     
    I’m getting absolutely sick and tired of seeing journalists saying Scotland could just adopt the Euro at a whim. Professional journalists should NOT be getting such basic facts wrong.

  23. Barontorc
    Ignored
    says:

    Been looking at what the bookies think as a polling predictor and the odds for YES are shortening by the week. William Hill on 18 May:
     

    Scottish Independence Markets

    Scottish Independence Markets – Will Scotland achieve full independence from UK by the 1st Jan 2020? 

    18 Sep 21:00 UK

    6/1
    Yes

    1/12
    No

    Scottish Independence Markets – What will be the outcome of 2014 Scottish Referendum on independence? 

    18 Sep 21:00 UK

    3/1
    Yes to independence

    2/9
    No to Independence

    Looks like a good YES double bet to me.

  24. Les Wilson
    Ignored
    says:

    There is one other point of Healey’s comments I think we should also consider well.
    This is the malicious spreading by Westminster that Scots are subsidy junkies, the have used this for so long few will remember when it started. It is of course as we now reliably know a total fabrication, and one that has caused the English to firmly believe it is true, yes even Scots thought it was true as we heard it every other day.
    The dark side of this was to cause division between English and Scots, where Scots have been derided for generations. The bile that is shown to Scots because of this lie has caused untold damage to English/Scots relationship. They suffer us to help us, because we are a nation who dislikes work, prefer subsidies, all untrue.
    However, it will be hard for the English in particular to come to terms of the truth, so lasting damage is done, for it was they have been  fed by Westminster aided by the Media en mass on a constant basis, brainwashed against Scotland! 
    So much then, for our “Equal” place in the Union, it, just like the lies mentioned above are a complete fallacy, it is based on lies we have NEVER been equal, we have always been manipulated and it is now in the open.
    It is despicable and unforgivable, shame on them! 

  25. Barontorc
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev Stu your edit /deletion request function doesn’t seem to be working too smooth!

  26. Kirriereoch
    Ignored
    says:

    @Clydebuilt 
    The Unionist camp have real difficulties…..without the biased media support the YES vote would win by a landslide.

    This article about a debate in Shetland is rather enlightening with regards to what could happen when the media are bypassed and direct debate and distribution of challenges to the MSM reports are made:

    “Students shift in favour of ‘yes’ vote after college debate”
    http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2013/05/10/students-shift-in-favour-of-yes-vote-after-college-debate?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
     

  27. annie
    Ignored
    says:

    It is no surprise that a number of Labour activists/supporters are turning against them – like a number of posters here I voted for them in the distant past and they have become much worse since the referendum became a reality.  It may take a while but as they say you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

  28. Shinty
    Ignored
    says:

    Kirriereoch
    re Shetland Times article: I remember reading this last week and found it strange that they stated:
     
    Before the debate a ballot was taken – 20 returns yielded four “yes”, 10 “no” and six “don’t know” votes. Afterwards this had changed to nine “yes”, 11 “no” and only two who did not know.

    It should have read – Afterwards this had changed to nine “yes”, nine “no” and only two who did not know (ie instead of lumping together the No & DK) – perhaps I am nit picking as it is only 2 votes, all the same…

     

  29. Indion
    Ignored
    says:

     
     
    And all in the morning I’m packing for a flying start to to be at home for a family celebration for some one who has seen it all from the end of World War Part 1.
    And to the tune of this mornings blogpost from Rev Stu and contributions so far being ‘Here comes that feeling again ….!
    Now warned of another warning on the way ….
    Something tells me, you’ll here are in for some more to smile about and get you teeth biting into what it seems, what’s behind it and really why in a battle between our US Wall street in the City of London and Germany’s Frankfurt as the onshore instead of offshored banking and finance centre for the EU eurzone and currencies at the eurodollar market in the City as is the EU Banking Authority, at present ….
    Small wonder Lawson and Lamont financiers’ chancellors and Healey too entered the argument for a non-protectionist, post-imperial preference for the Brics led emergent to be invested in banking on free trade, instead of the protectionist EU and eurozone and member states with other currencies in neoliberal practice like the UK with sterling failed to prevent and persist to pursue with dozent doses of the same medicinal cure as caused what ails us.
    For starters on the banksters form of ‘democracy’, see here: http://www.opendemocracy.net/john-keane/short-history-of-banks-and-democracy 
    And whilst there, check out where Gerry has plagiarised what Rev Stu has been putting put up, so we can learn how to put up and best deal with the next pile of the same patronising pish as usual on its signalled arrival at platform NO Scotland today: http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/gerry-hassan/scotland-and-eu-tale-of-two-referenda You’ll find the BC mod on his robustly best demolishing form in the comments. (Note to self, must ask the Major if they are related, BC having more than hint of blue about him.)
    Also, here again from Gerry yesterday on his take of the farageio: http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/gerry-hassan/nigel-farage-scottish-debate-and-future-of-europe 
    Also, whilst you are there – and in case not abreast of – here on how what might surely effect our NHS too: http://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/david-owen/lord-owen-condemns-%E2%80%9Cconspiracy-of-silence%E2%80%9D-on-eu-us-trade-deal There is an associated petition to sign to, somewhere?
    Right, that’s your lot, I’m outta here now for somewhere near you, confident you’ll have shot down the specious arguments and nailed the why of ‘too poor, to wee, too stupid’ belittlement down to not only our self-determined capability to do what we say we can – which has been wom by public acceptance of our viability on all sides from on high and mighty hitherto ‘no, can’t do’ so moved to Better Together’s ‘better not do, what?‘ line to try on for the continued taking – and the butt end instead of our self-determined capacity to do what we say we can.
    [ For history, see here – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination – in comparing the UK’s internal home rule form of devolution with it’s external away rule form of colonization in both being power to exploit retained. ]
    Nothwithstanding McCrone (sp?) and now Healey’s confirmation, the world at large will look upon YES and NO for the more reasonable of our and their risk assessment of our viability as a sovereign independent country and state – and so interdependent in our day and age as the UK is and rUK would be too – in deciding whether or not to recognise, acknowledge our enactment to make so, and if so, respond with let it be so [ before – if they want an invitation to observe our Referendum and/or to our Independence Day – or after, as negotiated before our I -Day,  tbd to collect their belongings in taking them from our no longer nuclear home to.]
    Sorry no time to check edit so far, Indion’s taxi driver is off without me if I don’t go now. Women – what would we do without they who can’t say and still might say NO too – (ind)eh!    

  30. Tattie-boggle
    Ignored
    says:

    @Kirriereoch
    @Clydebuilt 
    Imagine Labour in Scotland went back to their true core values and then came out for independence. Now that would be a landslide YES.

  31. kininvie
    Ignored
    says:

    “If you are a Labour member who supports the Yes position that we should be an independent, self-governing nation, then your party now treats you with contempt…”
     
    No, this doesn’t appear anywhere
     
    But change ‘Labour’ to ‘Conservative’ and ‘Yes’ to UKIP, and you have the actual text of a (full page) Open Letter from Nigel Farage in today’s Telegraph…
    So many ironies floating around.
     

  32. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    Given that Denis Healy has now demonstrated that the Labour Party misled the electorate with respect to the value of North Sea oil at the time of the 1979 referendum and given that three prominent No supportersat that time were Alastair Darling, Brian Wilson and Johann Lamont, I would like to see these three people questioned as to whether they were in fact aware of what the Labour Party was doing at the time (cough) and therefore were they party to the lie and if so, why, when they have clearly demonstrated their propensity for deception, we should trust what they are saying now.  Is any journalist up to the job?

  33. Dave McEwan Hill
    Ignored
    says:

    Barontorc
    Sadly you wouldn’t  be able to get that double. Something about “contingency” ie one bet being determined by the result of the other bet. Hills was giving7/2 last week for a Yes but Ladbrokes (who are nervous now and have dropped the straight Yes question  – they got badly burned  on offering 11/2 an SNP victory in 20011 until fairly late on)were offering a more interesting bet that YES would achieve more than 35% of the vote at 5/6 – an absolute certainty.
    Has anybody told the FM wjo likes a punt?

  34. Tattie-boggle
    Ignored
    says:

    @Barontorc 
     Watch what the bookmakers do they will keep shifting odds as people place bets.
    After the white paper is published watch the shifts and lay offs as they cover themselves, the odds will be really close after the white paper is published and then early in the summer next year yes will be favourite 🙂

  35. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

     
    If this is what’s making its way into print, god only knows what’s happening behind the scenes.
     
    ‘Better Together has launched an urgent appeal for new underwear…’

  36. Adrian B
    Ignored
    says:

    From Holyrood magazine, 

    The Denis Healey interview covered by Mandy Rhodes.
    http://www.holyrood.com/2013/05/still-raising-eyebrows/

  37. Cath
    Ignored
    says:

    “This is the malicious spreading by Westminster that Scots are subsidy junkies, the have used this for so long few will remember when it started. It is of course as we now reliably know a total fabrication, and one that has caused the English to firmly believe it is true, yes even Scots thought it was true as we heard it every other day.”
     
    The big problem the no camp have, and probably another reason they wanted an early referendum, is that most people supporting no also believe it. It’s amazing how many people do want independence, and believe Scotland should be an independent country, but are firm NOs at the moment because they actually believe the nonsense about subsidy junkies, too wee, too poor, too stupid etc. Many of them are bitter, angry and negative both about Scotland and, often, about England who they appear to blame for the situation. One kind of comment I hear frequently is a kind of “they’ve bled us dry; we should have been independent but couldn’t now” etc, etc. Generally along with “the oil’s running out” and other scare stories they’re just repeating.
     
    The NO camp relies on making sure people stay ill-informed, and that becomes harder with time. But if/when these people who – in their hearts – really want independence but don’t believe we can do it wake up to the fact they’ve been lied to, they’re likely to be incredibly angry I’d imagine.
     
     

  38. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    Holyrood VI from that panelbase poll:

    SNP 45%
    Lab 30%
    Con 13%
    Lib 5%
    Other 4%
    Green 2%

    So within variance, no change on May 2011 and landslide for the SNP.

    UKIP somewhere in that 4% along with independents, which, assuming similar levels as 2011, would have them on no change at ~1%.

    Also, only 37% said they’d be definitely voting No even with the EU exit potential.
     

  39. AmadeusMinkowski
    Ignored
    says:

    @Scottish_Skier
    Any thoughts on the new web based polling outfit pinPolis:
     they will accrue data based on postcode, perhaps even address!!
    They have also just set of a pinPolis twitter account: No posts as yet!
    I smell a “Blue State Digital” rat here!; a grey data-mining psyops so to speak.
    I’m betting that Blue State Digital’s attempts to aquire Large-Scale Voter Data from their texting campaign and grass roots efforts are failing. pinPolis may well be there efforts to carry out the precision voter strategy a la their 2012 Presidential election methodology.
    Anyone know how to find out the business profile of pinPolis
    whose funding them, where their servers are based etc…

  40. Les Wilson
    Ignored
    says:

    Jeannie@
    I agree with your comments,but how’s about pulling in those who secretly seeded 6,000sq miles of Scottish  seas to England ! Inc Tony Blair & his Scottish labour pals!
    That would also be something to hear !

  41. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    @AmadeusMinkowski

    No idea who they are. Unless they register with the British Polling Council, then treat with a big pinch of salt.

  42. a supporter
    Ignored
    says:

    And see the latest Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times.
    Y 36%   N 44%   U 20%. And if nonsense down south looks like out of EU the figures are
    Y 44%   N  44%   U  22%

  43. ScotFree1320
    Ignored
    says:

    @scottish_skier
        http://www.scotlandvotes.com/westminster
    I have never seen so beautiful a picture as this…

    It predicts these numbers of Westminster MPs:
    SNP: 46
    Lab: 12
    LD: 1
    Con: 0

  44. seoc
    Ignored
    says:

    Did the former First Minister of the Crown, Denis Healy, advise his Monarch that he was lying to the Scots to assist his thieving from them?
     Was the Monarch a willing party to this deception?

  45. Dee
    Ignored
    says:

    Turned on radio Scotland  and they were talking about the latest monetary scare story, I didn’t know who was talking but the guy was so biased and in agreement with the report and explaining how the NO campaign was so far ahead in opinion polls etc… I thought he was head spokesman for Bitter Together, it turned out to be an English bbc reporter with the name Hamish Macdonald, ( I don’t know if English reporters have to have their names changed when they work in Scotland ).  And absolutely no rebuttal from the YES campaign,  as someone mentioned in an earlier post,, I really do hope that undecided voters can see through all this propaganda coming from Bitter Together and MSM..VOTE YES.. We are all in this together for a   Fairer Scotland.

  46. Morag
    Ignored
    says:

    the unassailable fact he was on weapons-grade tranquillisers
     
    Er, WHAT????

  47. Morag
    Ignored
    says:

    ScotFree1320 says:
    20 May, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    @scottish_skier
        http://www.scotlandvotes.com/westminster
    I have never seen so beautiful a picture as this…
    It predicts these numbers of Westminster MPs:
    SNP: 46
    Lab: 12
    LD: 1
    Con: 0
     
    Have you noticed that the “latest opinion poll” shown on that page is dated November 2010?  It’s almost as if they don’t want us to see what the polls are doing now.
     
    I sometimes wonder what would happen if the coalition fell apart and we had to have a snap general election later this year….

  48. Tony Little [aka Aplinal]
    Ignored
    says:

    @Scotfree
     
    Yes it does look nice.  Shame that these poll figures are for Holyrood.  S_S What are the latest predictions for Westminster?

  49. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “re Shetland Times article: I remember reading this last week and found it strange that they stated:

    Before the debate a ballot was taken – 20 returns yielded four “yes”, 10 “no” and six “don’t know” votes. Afterwards this had changed to nine “yes”, 11 “no” and only two who did not know.

    It should have read – Afterwards this had changed to nine “yes”, nine “no” and only two who did not know (ie instead of lumping together the No & DK) – perhaps I am nit picking as it is only 2 votes, all the same…”

    Yeah, I questioned at the time where the extra two people had come from, but none of the participants replied to my query.

  50. Tony Little [aka Aplinal]
    Ignored
    says:

    Question:
     
    Did anyone listen to Kay+e this morning.  Is it worth listening to the rerun?

  51. Dee
    Ignored
    says:

    John Beattie, the presenter of bbc radio show also tries to come across as the ex rugby player and non political friend   to everyone, don’t be fooled, he is as bitter and biased a unionist as they come. If he wasn’t a bitter biased unionist then he wouldn’t be in the job, he is in the same boat as every single one of the scumbags that work in that ("Tractor" - Ed) filled building at Pacific Quay. from glen campbell to kaye adams, they all seem to have slimey, sneaky, doom laden tones..

  52. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dee
     
    I think that is unfair on the likes of David Millar, Isobel Fraser etc.

  53. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    Westminster VI, including MORI
    SNP 43%
    Lab 36%
    Con 13%
    Lib 6%

    Excluding MORI
    SNP 44%
    Lab 35%
    Con 13%
    Lib 6%

    Both could yield SNP majority of Scots MPs.

    MORI are the only pollster still to rely solely on landline polling; something now discredited  as mentioned previously.

    Data from TNS-BMRB, ICM, Angus Reid, Opinium, Comres +/-MORI.

  54. Tony Little [aka Aplinal]
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks S_S

  55. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    Morag
     
    G B was/ is a very volatile and deep brooding man capable of violent outbursts, allegedly, all of which has been alluded to after he demissioned. Google Gordon Brown and Doulas Alexander and somewhere you will find some pretty pithy descriptors used by DA against GB.
    GB was famously asked by Andrew Marr about rumours that he was taking anti depressants 
     
     
    viz
     
    transcript from the DT
     
    The author of the Not Born Yesterday blog, John Ward, told Krishnan Guru-Murthy in a interview, he wrote the story in early September after meeting a very senior civil servant at a social gathering.
    The source gave Mr Ward a verbal list of foods the prime minister was allegedly unable to eat. Mr Ward said that as an occasional depressive himself in the past, he recognised the contraindications to be those of an anti-depressant of the MAOI type.
    Mr Ward said: “I broke the story on my website at the beginning of September. The fact of the matter is I still have no more proof, and I stress proof, than anyone else that Gordon Brown is actually taking anti-depressants.
    “All I can say is that I was given a verbal list of foods he allegedly cannot have by a very senior civil servant at a social gathering. And as an occasional depressive myself in the past I recognised the contraindications immediately from many years ago to be those of an anti-depressant of the MAOI type that I have taken.”
    Mr Brown was asked yesterday by Andrew Marr on the BBC whether he used “painkillers or pills” to help him get through. Mr Brown said no, adding “I think this is the sort of questioning which is all too often entering the lexicon of British politics.”
     
    Please note the subtle change of the language of Marr to Brown on ‘tranquillisers.”
     
    Anyway, GB’s answer is a very well crafted response to a very well crafted deflectionary question.
     
    I must say that the taking of such are a crime or an admit of the lack of “moral fibre” but, we are talking about a Prime Miinister who was allegedly throwing Nokias arounds and kicking photocopiers, try googling Order-Order and Nokia, but whether he was  capable of taking rational decisions upon which the lives of 60+ millions depended?
     
    I am not smearing GB but saying that a lot of things did go on under him that need to be exposed, so that we can have a more intelligent debate and understanding of that mental health issues are of our leaders are equally important to physical ones.
     
    I am not a mental health professional or an amateur but, if half the stories about GB are correct, this would be germane to his position on Scotland staying in the Union and he being a Champion of that.
     
    I don’t wan`t this to go off on a tangent in this thread and would be quite happy if the Rev Stu wants to put and comments into a black box somewhere.
     
     
     
     

  56. Mad Jock McMad
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi – I read the Roxburgh essay in the Gruniad and instead of launching off on one thought to myself, if this is the best the No campaign can come up with, a year out from the referendum, they are totally ‘F’d.

    So I wrote a piece for my own blog (Tarff Advertiser) on why I support ‘Yes’ and why I know we are winning the argument.  The man and woman in the Partick Tram like to be allowed to make up their own minds, in their own good time, which is exactly the line the Yes campaign’s much maligned low profile approach allows.
    The time to attack your enemy is when they are running out of steam, the well planned counter attack is often what wins any battle. Healey’s comments reveal the degree to which the ‘No campaign’ is already getting itself badly bogged down. Brown’s ‘United for Labour’ (surely the No campaign’s best oxymoron yet) interjection last week is another sign of an opponent running out of steam and trying to mount out flanking attacks with ever weaker forces.

    Wee Eck’s 18 month run in is working well and I guess to the Yes campaign’s strategists plan and, like all successful campaigns, the Yes ‘counter attack’ will be launched when the opponents have punched themsleves out and at a time of the Yes campaign’s choosing. It is up to us ‘Yes’ foot sloggers to hold the line, keep our humour and welcome deserters with open arms.

  57. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @Mad Jock
     
    Works for me. 🙂

  58. AmadeusMinkowski
    Ignored
    says:

    seoc says:
     
    20 May, 2013 at 12:24 pm
     

    Did the former First Minister of the Crown, Denis Healy, advise his Monarch that he was lying to the Scots to assist his thieving from them?
     Was the Monarch a willing party to this deception?
    ******************
    Excellent observation. It affords the opportunity to revisit an appalling modern example the British State corruption and wickedness.

    Simply switch to Kenya, where the UK ran concentration and torture camps* from 1952-1961; yes, that’s right, after WWII!. This is documented in he 2006 Pulitzer Prize winning book “Britain’s Gulag”

    Now, believe it or not, the UK state said in the high court case brought by 4 Kenyan octogenarians in London in 2012 that “the statute of limitations has passed” and there was no case to answer!!! Thankfully, the UK government have just lost the case.

    Now, how many UK subjects were aware of this case in 2012; O’h, sorry, more important things were happening, like the Queen’s Jubilee and the Olympics.

    Ironically and sadly, the Queen’s Jubilee links to this Kenya story in an even more troublesome way. Namely, she had a home in Kenya, Sagana Lodge,  where she holidayed from 1950-1952; you couldn’t make this stuff up! Indeed, she was visiting Sagana Lodge, in 1952 when news of the King’s death broke. So her Jubliee also commemorated the start of slaughter in Kenya

     

  59. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    A couple of no-minded voters I know are still hanging on, by their fingertips – they are determined that Scotland should remain in the UK, but they are now starting to look ever so slightly concerned. I’m not sure they will manage to hang on for another month, let alone a year! RE: latest polls – it looks like Labour have been UKIPPERD.

  60. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    A major problem for the MSM portraying a solid no majority all the time is that, when the polls do start to move in favour of a yes vote (which they will), and it becomes no longer possible to hide/manipulate the opinion polls, then the no campaign is going to have the appearance of decline and ultimate failure. What goes up, must come down!

  61. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Luigi,
     
    I think the polls are already moving in favour of Yes buddy.
     
    The Panelbase poll back in March had Yes on 36% and no On 46%.
    This marked the smallest gap between ‘Yes’ and ‘No’ since the date of the referendum was announced.
    This meant that ‘Yes’ only needs a swing of 5% to catch ‘No’
     
    Just two months later and the same polsters, who take their evidence from the same group of people each time, had a result of ‘Yes’ 36% and ‘No’ 44% so ‘Yes’ heald steady, but ‘No’ lost 2%.
    ‘Yes’ now only need a 4% swing to catch ‘No’ !
     
    This is why the ‘No’ campaign is getting desperate and have been splitting etc.
    It must be fun behind the scenes in the various factions withion the ‘Better Together’ campaign.

  62. Inbhir Anainn
    Ignored
    says:

    Re: High Court case brought by 4 Kenyan octogenarians in London 2012.
     
    Judgement can be viewed at
    http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/mutua-fco-judgment-05102012.pdf
     
     

  63. ScotFree1320
    Ignored
    says:

    @Tony Little [aka Aplinal]
    @scottish_skier

        http://www.scotlandvotes.com/westminster

    That’ll teach me to read the post properly! 

    The ‘Excluding MORI’ figures into their predictor has these numbers of Westminster MPs:
    SNP: 36
    Lab: 21
    LD: 2
    Con: 0

    The ‘including MORI’ has SNP & Lab trading an MP.  No Tories in both cases 🙂 and the Libs are all but history!

    @Morag
    I spotted that too.  Pretty poor form not to keep it current!  🙂

  64. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    “There is one other point of Healey’s comments I think we should also consider well.
    This is the malicious spreading by Westminster that Scots are subsidy junkies, the have used this for so long few will remember when it started. It is of course as we now reliably know a total fabrication, and one that has caused the English to firmly believe it is true, yes even Scots thought it was true as we heard it every other day.”
    Sorry Les but there are a lot of Scots who STILL  thinks it’s true,
    and that is is what fills me with terror because the cold hard facts are that the truth of rUK’s problems are starting to come to light and they wont think twice about using their own problems to instill fear into the hearts of Scots,
    if we’re going down ,your going downer, and quicker, seems to be the subliminal message

  65. Frances
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Indion
     
    interesting you thought that it was the Major posting on the Open Democracy site. However, although those are his initials, the Major assures me it wasnae him!

  66. Indion
    Ignored
    says:

     
    Frances @7:48am
     
    Yes, I knew. Using initials, it was a passing joke on how the YES family contribute in such varied ways to overall success.
     
    And to attract readers to OD/OK, where wagon’s are circling.
     



Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)

    Stats: 6,609 Posts, 1,192,572 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

  • RSS Wings Over Scotland

  • A tall tale



↑ Top