Politics By Dummies
We’re reluctant to even mention the farcical, embarrassing goings-on in the House Of Commons last night, but the very short version is that the SNP somehow contrived to save Keir Starmer from an embarrassing mass rebellion of Labour MPs.
And in so far as anyone cared about them at all, the people of Gaza were the losers.
Starmer’s victory was something of a Pyrrhic one, with every party in the Commons, and most of all the Speaker, coming out of the fiasco smeared in excrement. But Starmer – the SNP’s target – was the only one who could claim any sort of win.
The entire affair was an opportunist piece of virtue-signalling on the SNP’s part. Given a rare Opposition Day motion, they chose not to focus on anything the UK parliament has any influence over but on trying to trip Labour up.
Had they merely sought to make a symbolic statement expressing sympathy with the innocent victims of the conflict in Gaza they could have done so easily, but they chose instead to deliberately do it in a way that they knew Labour could not support.
Now, one might argue that such pantomimically pointless petty gesture politics are the everyday fodder of the primary-school playground for grownups that is Parliament and as such are fair game, but in that case the SNP were comprehensively outmanoeuvred by Labour, who exerted heavy pressure on the abysmally weak, inept Speaker and bullied him into throwing the Parliamentary rulebook in the bin.
(It was suggested that part of that pressure was to tell Hoyle that Labour MPs were scared to vote for a ceasefire on the SNP’s terms for the sake of their own personal safety, which if true would be a wretched display of abject cowardice from the nation’s lawmakers, and if false an appalling exercise in blackmail.)
With that feat accomplished, the SNP could at least have still voted for the amended ceasefire motion and THEN made a huge fuss about the improper procedures from a position on relatively high moral ground. Instead, they and the Tories stormed furiously out of the chamber and let Labour’s motion pass “on the nod” with no votes cast at all, saving Starmer from the embarrassment of a rebellion and reducing themselves to an irrelevant footnote in most of the reporting.
(They didn’t even get a little corner of the Times graphic above.)
Hoyle’s position ought now to be totally untenable, but the SNP haven’t even managed to present a united front in terms of the no-confidence motion in the Speaker put down by Tory MP William Wragg last night, which at the time of writing has been backed by 59 members, but only half of the SNP’s cohort.
Getting rid of the useless and incredibly Scotland-hostile Hoyle would at least salvage a crumb of something worthwhile from the entire trainwreck, and having all SNP MPs sign the bill would take it over 80, which would be very hard for the Speaker to survive.
(A previous Speaker, Michael Martin, was brought down by just 22 MPs expressing no confidence in him in 2009.)
But the party can’t even manage to get its ducks in a row on that, and the 50/50 split makes it look like it has no idea what it’s doing.
Absolutely everyone in the UK Parliament disgraced themselves yesterday, individually and collectively. The people of Scotland and Gaza were both treated with contempt – by Labour, the Tories, the Speaker and the SNP – while the government of Israel sat back, watched and sniggered, and got on with its business.
The SNP surrendered all claims to moral superiority and looking like the adults in the room in an undignified and transparent attempt to score some cheap political points against Starmer and Labour, then got outplayed and lost the game anyway.
And over in Gaza, as the overgrown children in London squabbled and screamed at each other, the bombs kept on falling on the real ones.
While I’m sympathetic to humanitarian crisis happening over there I’m at a loss to see why it becomes such a big deal over here. As if the Israeli government is going to go “oh crap, the Brits have voted for a ceasefire, we better listen or else”. It’s purely performative and given our country feels like shambles at the moment would be better focusing on things that the public actually care about. Then again distraction is a key tactic of all the main parties.
Why, why, why have some SNP MP’s not signed a vote of no confidence???
If the constitution has been broken then surely the proceedings and vote must be cancelled for a re-run.
To be fair SNP have been the only party to take action against mass murder and war criminals
Labour have ignored this and have been forcibly put in a position with even more MP’s reading to resign or vote against the whip.
We waste our time in this corrupt cabal and it’s time to tear it apart.
Call the liars liars and disrupt one by one and be expelled never to return.
They achieve nothing in there but insults or at best be ignored.
No sovereign nation should be ruled over by another.
Quoted at Brexit, on Ukraine and Taiwan among others but not applicable to Scotland
From what I’ve seen in Westminster today, I have a feeling Hoyle could survive this. Based on his claims of defending the safety of MPs because of threats by extremists.
Regardless, he should NOT have bowed to threats from Labour and maintained the standard conventions for the debate.
He was put in a difficult position by bullies, yet went along with their plan, he should go. How can anyone trust him in the future?
The Deputy Speaker needs to be investigated too, for pushing the actual voting through amid constant shouting (which she decided was ‘aye’ for the amendment)
Only reservation I’d have with the lead article would be the comment, “makes it look as if it has no idea what it’s doing”.
To me it made it even more apparent that what they are doing is attempting to seem to play politics with the “big boys (& girls)” whilst virtue signalling as they go.
Are there truly no Scottish concerns (I’ve given up any hope of these troughers addressing independence issues) with which they could attack the union ? No problem with Scots energy renewables supporting our neighbours ? Nothing at all ?
And, of course, for a comfortably shod former keyboard player;
“Hope springs eternal in the human breast:”
Alexander Pope.
Don’t think I agree. The procedures were gerrymandered against the SNP by conniving Labour and the Speaker. That’s what looks bad.
Getting clarity of the position of parties in Parliament on a topic is what politicians are supposed to do. Labour can’t claim to be one thing and not back something with the other face.
The SNP put forward their motion because they believe it, if it caused rebellion in Labour that’s showing the public the reality of Labour’s position. No bad thing.
I don’t agree with your anlysis Rev this time. I don’t believe SNP were game playing this time. Members of parliament are receiving vast numbers of pleas from constituents to do something about Gaza. SNP only get 3 opposition day debates, Labour get 17 and have used none for Gaza. Starmer initiated this plot to benefit him and Labour – and Israel. Starmer is gratifying his zionist masters while simultaneously appeasing those in his party who want to show their constituents they are supporting a ceasefire. It is all sickeningly evil.
More to the point, why would anyone in the Gaza and Israel listen to a virtual signalling nonsense in Westminster? It has nothing to do with us.
Truthfully, none of the key players in the Israel-Gaza conflict give a monkey’s what the UK parliament’s position is.
Just shows me what a farce Westminster is and the SNP are hook line and sinker in it.
We in Scotland need out of this union ASAP, and the people of Gaza need a miracle and UN called for cease fire.
A good summary of the situation from Rev Stu, as always.
If you find yourself in a legislature and are unwilling to take difficult decisions – for any reason – you are unfit and do not deserve to be in that institution.
To succumb to supposed threats and to alter process in order to avoid having to make difficult decisions sends out the signal that “might” is indeed “right” and sets us all on a very dangerous path where representative democracy becomes victim to the whims of the loudest and/or most threatening voices.
Mr. Hoyle, for whatever reason, engaged in behaviour that served only one party, and that party was the one of which he has a long-held membership and adherence to. However difficult the vote might be he chose to introduce another amendment that reduced choice and neutered an SNP motion.
There was little of difference between Labour and Conservative amendments, but the SNP’s motion did bring then debate significantly closer than any before to matters being discussed at the International Court. Hamstringing that being considered is unforgivable.
Rather than banging on about process and unfairness, it may serve the SNP (and possibly all those involved in this conflict) to focus on the meat of what was lost by the intervention yesterday. Only Labour and the Conservatives are served by an argument on technicalities and the public are given no hook to get a grip on what has happened without the detail of what was being offered by the SNP focussed on.
@ Livionian says: 22 February, 2024 at 1:37 pm
Truthfully, none of the key players in the Israel-Gaza conflict give a monkey’s what the UK parliament’s position is
I agree, but then we have the preceding comment to consider:
Members of parliament are receiving vast numbers of pleas from constituents to do something about Gaza
What if that is true?
I am struck by the thought that despite all the constant critical carping about our imperialist, colonialist legacy of interference in other countries, a solid bloc of the electorate expect us to get concerned, busy and involved every time something happens overseas.
Have cake and eat it? Sure looks that way.
A rhetorical wager,
which will happen first, a «Scottish state» or a «Palestinian state»?
ZOG’s have been the Bain of western countries for a century. Zionist Occupied Governments ( not an exclusively Jewish movement) pull the strings on the US, UK , EU and pretty much every ‘western’ state.
Perhaps Hoyle has family and loved ones that the Zionist lobby explained quite clearly would happen to unless he OBEYED.
Personally had friends and family offed without consequence for the authorities killers. A lot of us safe in our Western European homes prefer to deny what we live amongst as long as we think we’re safe.
The Zionist folk are planning a genocide of billions. They are committed to it . Their ancient texts demand it .
Just hope it holds off in Germany until August. Though wouldn’t bet on it.
The only clear winners were the genocidal Israelis and those in Britain who are selling them arms. It will all soon be forgotten, down the memory hole…
And as much as the UK parliament demanding a ceasefire would have been ignored by Israel, or possibly construed as more evidence of anti-semitism somewhere, it might have otherwise had serious implications for UK arms exporters.
Post-Brexit Britain: “War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, Ignorance Is Strength” and anything goes when it comes to making a few bob.
We live in the tackiest country in all history.
The reason Labour bosses didn’t want to back SNP is well, it was SNP!
But then, also, SNP had the words “Collective Punishment” of Palestinians in their Motion, and Sir Starmer simply could never have that, as he backs Israel to do whatever it wants.
For Sir Starmer, peace can only be on Israel’s terms!
I was not impressed that I heard some Labour thing on the wireless today say SNP walked out with the tories.
That is false, SNP walked out, then tories followed them out.
And actually, while they did indeed walk out the Chamber, they had intended to vote for the Labour Amendment, basically having no choice but to do, but MP Mordount put paid to all of that, when she pulled the Govt Motion.
The (Labour) Deputy Speaker made matters far worse, and she was quite appalling.
That said, I heard MP Blackford on the wireless on Radio Scotland this afternoon.
I was less than impressed, as he was asked over and over, if he backed Stephen Flynn’s calls for Speaker Hoyle to go.
He continued to not answer that, tho he did insist on talking about the situation in Gaza.
All this was Labour leaderships own doing.
They didn’t want to back anything put forward by SNP, and Starmer didn’t want a rebellion of his own MPs.
Well, that was his problem, not an SNP problem.
Now if this episode doesn’t convince SNP to abandon House of Commons, then nothing will, and they will do themselves and Scotland no favors if they stay on in there.
Many folks are now demanding they quit the deranged anti Scottish place for good, now!
Sir Keir Starmer is a manipulative individual – he has previous.
The constant wars of England, aye, and as always only the political elite of Scotland want a piece of the action and as always dragging Scots that never joined the union into the abyss of stupidity.
If they truly were the opposition to the political parties down south the topic would be entirely different,
It was this same lower minded political class of people that joined themselves to the union so they could become bigger fish in England as well as Scotland.
They alone voted to join a union, to join the constant wars of Englands empire building for the colour of money.
And to this day that is who is the aggressive union with England,
Not the Scots,
Nor the Old Scottish parliament government that long has since been under “dissolution” leaving no members to represent the Scots.
Those groups that turned their backs on the welfare of Scots and Scotland………..not only did they join themselves to the treaty union heart and sole, but have merged so completely to become a extension of England in Scotland happy to act in a pretendy Scottish parliament, albiet under the parliament of Westminster Statues and legislation.
These Scottish political elite are now part of the empire by default, warmongering mongrels willing to kill other humans. Destroying land, maiming wild life, with the war machines constantly using fossil fuels in these events ( which goes against all the climate change policies) they impose in Scotland, dragging Scots into wars of the empire of financial egotistical gains for their own personal benefit.
Thank Goodness that at least the UK parliament have had the honesty to openly state to the world and Global communities that the “Scots were not ever invited into the Treaty of Union”.
And were never any part of “the elite that signed that treaty of union” in the first instance, for god only knows how The people in Scotland could avoid being tarred with the same brush with the disaster of crimes against humanity and the crimes that destroy the planet otherwise in the long standing english wars Crusade against the Eastern Countries and it neighbours.
For the empire itself will destroy Britain,
Anyone know Chris Musson’s politics?
I’m wondering why he think anyone would have advance knowledge that the condemnation of collective punishment would be unpalatable to labour. ie Is his smear directed at socialism in general or is it a jibe aimed at the current incarnation of labour (and/or Sir Kier), in particular?
Elsewhere, big hand for Andrew Bridgen MP for lightening the tone in this morning’s episode (with a question about excess deaths).
Until then the show risked descending further into farce as the speaker expressed pride at his guilt before a fellow Englishman followed him down with a misty eyed story about how much safer he’d felt in Israel than England recently.
The effect of Bridgen’s interjection being a thankfull reminder that the gentlemen speaking before him must, in reality, be more scared of catching something from NHS than having their homes destroyed by terrorists,
Bonus being, should they continue to fear for their safety, whoever is charged with providing it gets a heads up on the need for discretion in any attempt to begin treatment at source.
Gordon Keane @ 14.02.
Nothing will convince them to step back from the gravy train.
‘Specially not as the piggiest of them all has his eye on the House of Lords.
And Mr Wishart seeks to rekindle his Speakership ambition.
I disagree with those who say, it would make no difference to the situation if WM voted for a cease fire.
It would show that only the US and the Cons support the massacre of civilians in Palestine.
It would carry some weight IMO.
However yesterday was an orchestrated farce and I believe Hoyle will either be protected or sent to the HoL
I watched the debate and am fairly sure the reason the SNP did not get a vote was because the tories stepped back and declared they would take no further part.
Not, as you say Stuart, because they walked out.
Stephen Flynn directly asked the deputy speaker Rosie Winterton about the fact that they would be unable to vote on their own motion and she confirmed it.
This was in fact the reason they walked out, their only opportunity to vote at all, as it stood, was to vote for or against the Labour ammendment.
It’s Westminster. Who cares?
What is Going on with Glenda Jackson’s boy Dan Hodges, Blairite, writes for the New Statesman, The Telegraph and the Sunday Mail yet surrounds his name with three brackets?
Is he being ‘ironic’?
The reason Labour didn’t want to support then SNP is because the motion was too strong (taking it perilously close to the ICC deliberations).
The reason Labour didn’t want to support the Tory amendment (which was pretty much identical to the one it laid) ws politicking… with a WM election so close they couldn’t bring themselves to do it.
The reason labour put pressure on Mr. Hoyle was also politicking, because they then faced a revolt – and he should never have succumbed to party loyalty and/or pressure in allowing them to get away with it.
If the State of Israel won’t fear the ICC they certainly don’t give a damn about WM, whatever was decided. Mr. Hoyle’s actions yesterday simply made it easier for them to ignore what did pass and avoid and SNP motion that “might” have gained more traction and garner support for a ceasefire.
“I disagree with those who say, it would make no difference to the situation if WM voted for a cease fire.”
Liz.
Frankly it won’t make a blind bit of difference, Westminster will still keep selling arms to the Zionists, and flights from RAF bases in Cyprus will continue to deliver supplies of all kinds.
Netanyahu doesn’t care what the west thinks of his continued genocide of the oppressed Palestinian people.
There are so many routes that weapons and supplies are going into Israel, such as shipped to Jordan then trucked over Saudi Arabia into Israel.
Why would the SNP vote for the Labour amendment that replaced their own motion? Forget about the skullduggery that prevented the SNP motion from being debated. What the Labour motion means is at great odds with the SNP motion
Labour’s amendment reads:
“That this House believes that an Israeli ground offensive in Rafah risks catastrophic humanitarian consequences and therefore must not take place; notes the intolerable loss of Palestinian life, the majority being women and children; condemns the terrorism of Hamas who continue to hold hostages; supports Australia, Canada and New Zealand’s calls for Hamas to release and return all hostages and for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, which means an immediate stop to the fighting and a ceasefire that lasts and is observed by all sides, noting that Israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if Hamas continues with violence and that Israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of 7 October 2023 cannot happen again; therefore supports diplomatic mediation efforts to achieve a lasting ceasefire; demands that rapid and unimpeded humanitarian relief is provided in Gaza; further demands an end to settlement expansion and violence; urges Israel to comply with the International Court of Justice’s provisional measures; calls for the UN Security Council to meet urgently; and urges all international partners to work together to establish a diplomatic process to deliver the peace of a two-state solution, with a safe and secure Israel alongside a viable Palestinian state, including working with international partners to recognise a Palestinian state as a contribution to rather than outcome of that process, because statehood is the inalienable right of the Palestinian people and not in the gift of any neighbour.”
Sandy, I think you are right.
Also, the only reason that the Labour amendment got through was because the Tories did not oppose it.
To say the SNP was outmanoeuvered is imo inaccurate. The SNP could do nothing to stop what took place. Stitched up is a better description.
For the Sovereignty of England has already fallen to the Who and Nato,
It is tumbling to mass migration, to gender dysphoria, to culture wars, to the funneling of tax payer money out of these Isles into other Countries with no receipts or IOUs whilst the uk economy bricks it and tumbles into disarray for the average citizen for housing, employment, free speech, industries, and to puppet politicians that have been bought, funded and paid for,
The present day British empire politicians are the very sect, that are destroying their own Empire from within,
In a political analyses, Scots must take a alternative route to protect its people before the Empire brings us down with them. At this point in time Ireland and Wales should be re- considering that their old connected history must save their nations too,
“The reason Labour didn’t want to support then SNP is because the motion was too strong (taking it perilously close to the ICC deliberations).”
G-Man.
What you actually mean is taking it not perilously, but naturally close to the truth, that Netanyahu IS committing genocide, which would’ve been a step to far for Starmer’s Zionist donors.
The (Labour) Deputy Speaker asked the House for ayes or nos on the amendment and then ignored the cries of opposition. Labour’s amendment should have gone to a formal vote and there were SNP people present to oppose it.
For once I disagree with you Rev. Starmer showed his true colours and I for one won’t forget. The debacle also adds grist to the plea for Scots MPs to come home and stay home.
Once again ut chist goes tae show ye how irrelevant the SNP are in Westminster .
If you take Hoyle and Labour at their word, a (the) purpose of allowing Labour’s amendment was to safeguard MP’s from being threatened by constituents if they followed the party line and voted against the SNP motion. Threats to MP’s are hideous, but equally MP’s should not give into them, nor publicize the fact that they’ll seek a way out if they are threatened. The winners of yesterday included those who would threaten MP’s to vote in a certain way in future.
The SNP should not be in the Debate on wars abroad, if it was doing its proper job and focused instead on a independent Scotland.
Scotland need not be involved with Westminster parliaments future “crimes against humanity” at all like Mr Blair and Mr Bush.
But then these are pretendy Scottish politicians, in a pretendy Scottish parliament. Spending most of their time living of the fat of the land in their positions in the head office down south.
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, he overthrew the tables of the money lenders and the seats of the merchants And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
—?Matthew 21:12–13
“If you take Hoyle and Labour at their word, a (the) purpose of allowing Labour’s amendment was to safeguard MP’s from being threatened by constituents if they followed the party line and voted against the SNP motion”
And there we go. Hoyle, senior members of Labour and the mouthpieces of the establishment attempting to exercise psychological blackmailing of the masses by playing the victim card. Who is going to believe such crap?
Their taking of the voters as complete fools is completely unacceptable. Either the HoC is a democratic institution or is a joke.
Hoyle and Starmer should be disciplined and ejected from the HoC with immediate effect for gross misconduct and for abusing their positions of power to openly break convention to thwart democracy. They are basically saying that whatever passes in the HoC under their watch is only because it is what the thugs of the day and aggressive lobbyists pressurising the MPs want. That not only is not credible, it is also completely unacceptable and falls well below what it is expected of the speaker, the leader of the opposition and the MPs.
What does the Uk need a parliament for if all what the Speaker and leader of the opposition are prepared to do is to succumb to the wants and wishes of pro-Israel lobbyists and thugs threatening MPs when they don’t do as they are told?
If what we saw yesterday was not a wonderful display of theatrics because the passing of the labour amendment had been pre-agreed/pre-arranged by the establishment, then I fully expect to see Hoyle and Starmer ejected from the HoC and disciplined for gross misconduct in the next couple of weeks.
If they remain in post, it will be as clear evidence as there is to be, that what we saw yesterday was staged, it was the result of a last-minute intervention of the establishment which has nothing but contempt for democracy, and therefore the HoC as a democratic institution is as useless and as much fake as Holyrood is.
Yes this debacle, shows us exactly that the SNP are an irrelevant force at Westminster, and that in reality they are there just to line their own pockets, that’s why they’ll never achieve Scottish independence.
James Che.
You’ll like this as I do, first though, from it, it has to be noted that Alex Salmond in his generosity/naivety cost us dearly in 2014, the UK government didn’t extend this generosity in 2016, and it paid-off for them.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/02/22/letter-of-the-week-14/
I’m past caring what the SNP do. This latest kicking merely illustrates, for me, at least, the utter pointlessness of taking their seats in a Westminster parliament where they are routinely discounted by most, if not by all. A genuine independence-party would’ve withdrawn from that place years ago, if only for reasons of serial embarrassment. Of course Labour was going to get its way FFS!
The political debate between labour, Snp, Tories or any other politics party are the (Magicians quick slight of hand ) trick smoke Screens to keep your focus occupied in the wrong direction, whilst they manouvre the other hand.
Some people are in awe and are fooled by the magicians act, while others are well aware it is an act for the public audience.
I Read today that the fishing rights of Britain has been rescinded by Ruskie land, the treaty with the Ussr lasted five years and then could be renewed,
It makes up for 40 % of most of the that is ate fish, (in England) I believe it said,
Reporting on Parliament clowns at home, while the other hand is losing control.
The repercussions of war always falls at the feet of the people on both sides not the political classes.
But these are the things that Westminster and MSM are trying to distract attention from whith the magicians sleight of hand,
In days past Scots were smart and used to say, “Look squirrel”.
@ John says: 22 February, 2024 at 2:02 pm
The Zionist folk are planning a genocide of billions
Finally, somebody who knows what “genocide” means.
Progress of a sort.
Den,
Timely reminder,
The den of thieves may have changed premises where the preaching is done , but they are still the same den of thieves.
History has a uncanny way of repeating itself, and they to will soon have their tables upturned and overthrown.
@ Republicofscotland says: 22 February, 2024 at 2:26 pm
There are so many routes that weapons and supplies are going into Israel, such as shipped to Jordan then trucked over Saudi Arabia into Israel
Erm …
Tell us you just made that up.
The SNP are irrelevant to Scots, not just to Westminster,
It is no longer the Case of Scottish support for the Snp, they are no longer in that position because of Scots voters but due to the infiltration supporters,
But the game carries on and the music keeps playing because of this false front.
James Che @ 3:30 pm
“The den of thieves”
Thay treicherous SNP MPs hiv stealt an selt Scottish soveranety, thon’s for shuir. Nae wunner Scots fowk is bealin.
A Unionist 19th century rulebook renders both Westminster and Scotland forever obsolete politically in the 21st century. Hurrah! And still people actually vote to perpetuate this?
It is a matter of fact and not opinion that Westminster could revoke the licence that permits arms sales to Israel. Would a vote to stop the genocide (a ceasefire) have achieved that? Possibly. It seems like a logical and obvious next step, ASSUMING AND ESPECIALLY IF ISRAEL CONTINUES MASSACRING CIVILIANS.
One of the legal aspects of this that I haven’t heard one single person mention is the UN Charter and how it is essentially incorporated into UK law and the US Constitution (I believe under Article 6 but don’t quote me on that). Both governments are currently in violation of that Charter – by supplying arms to Israel in violation of the ICJ ruling – which means they are acting criminally and in violation of their own laws, regardless of yesterday’s theatrics.
It is against the law for the UK Government or the US Government to act unlawfully. Duh! Had the vote yesterday gone ahead and been passed in the mother of all Parliaments, it is inconceivable that the UK government could have continued acting unlawfully by aiding and abetting Israel through the continued supply of arms.
In short, it absolutely did matter.
Not that it matters that it mattered, because nothing really matters these days, and who cares about genocide, right?
@ John says: 22 February, 2024 at 2:02 pm
The Zionist folk are planning a genocide of billions
Finally, somebody who knows what “Zionist ” means.
I’d like to know more about why some MP’s felt threatened , every tim I have watched PMQ’s over the last few years , I have watched behaviour which would not be tolerated in a classroom anywhere.
Perhaps they should clean up their act , lead by example and be respectful of others , then perhaps the population would follow suit.
Mr Hoyle is not a great fan of Scots or Scottish politicians , in fact he has been more than objectionable towards them turning puce in the face screaming at them – he would be no great loss as Speaker but Wishart would be no great gain either.
It’s interesting that this rubbish interrupts the news cycle when the USA vetos a ceasefire for the third time.
I guess we had run out of Navalnys
“Livionian
says:
22 February, 2024 at 1:37 pm
Truthfully, none of the key players in the Israel-Gaza conflict give a monkey’s what the UK parliament’s position is.”
That very much depends on what definitions are being applied to the key terms in this line of argument.
The contextual facts and realities are that a number of UN member states – which include South Africa and Nicaragua – are at present extending their legal action on this matter against those aiding and abetting the very obvious genocide being instigated by the Zionist based settler Regime of Israel. Presumably under Article 25 of the ICC Rome Statute.
One of the UN member States and its individual political elites being placed in the frame with this follow on legal action is the UK. And this includes not only the UK Government and individual members of that Government but also key figures in His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition such as Herr Starmer.
In that regard the debate in Westminster on the issue of a ceasefire and the prevention of further deliberate genocide in Gaza by the criminal terrorist State perpetuating that genocide has a very obvious arse covering relevance for those on the UK Government and opposition benches.
Given the very obvious and often commented upon reality on this site (among others) that despite the existence of an elected Scottish Parliament – as well as Scottish MP’s sitting in the larger Westminster Parliament – that Scotland remains a vassal of the UK, Scotland and Scottish Politicians therefore (as a matter of the sheer logic of that position) have a direct interest in this matter whether they like it or not because any adverse outcome of the case being prepared against the UK and its politicians will impact on Scotland and its body politic as well as that of the rest of UK.
In regards to the supplied quote from Dan Hodges regarding MP’s concern about their safety on such a vote that quote is characteristically unclear on the matter of where such a threat originates. Given that the Junta that is the Labour Party under Herr Starmer has a former member of the Israeli Security State working in a very high position within the Party it is more than reasonable to surmise that any threat to the safety of MP’s on this issue would come from the thugs committing the genocide rather than those opposed to it.
On the present trajectory the Rupert’s across the Collective West are more than a tad concerned – and with a degree of justification – about ending up on the wrong side of an outcome not too dissimilar to that of Nuremberg. An outcome which cannot come soon enough given their track record.
I fail to understand why people or so anxious to comment on this topic.
Obviously they are because they took the article about ‘Operation Branchform’ off topic very early in the morning.
I’m looking at you Mia.
Can you tell me what is so important about this stuff and why it’s more important than the three current police investigation into the SNP/Scottish Government?
Original SNP motion amended by Labour and the Tories. Whichever version of the motion passed, who the hell was going to take a blind bit of notice? – Three bald men fighting over a comb.
Watching the proceedings of the “showbusiness for ugly people” in Barry & Pugin’s gothic monstrosity is becoming increasingly like watching monkeys flinging shit at each other in a zoo.
Mother of Parliaments? More like Parliament of Motherfuckers.
Best of luck to you good people north of the border in your attempts to be free of the English yoke.
If you can afford ir…….please help
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/uksc-definition-of-sex-in-equality-act/
Mia @3:06
Another cracking post.
I can even see how, taking it a step further, great things could flow from making Pete Wishart speaker & Jan Murray labour leader in advance of a snap GE where SNP & Alba manage to kiss and make up beforehand 🙂
@ Hatuey says: 22 February, 2024 at 3:54 pm
supplying arms to Israel in violation of the ICJ ruling
Don’t despair, Hats, there is a remedy for your condition.
Asbestos underpants – yes, that’s an actual thing.
It’s gonna be pricey, cos you’re gonna need a lot of pairs, but then the solution lies in your own hands.
Stop lying.
Geoff Anderson
I like the sign.
Women are angry ignore us at your peril
You know what to do ladies
Women in Scotland Vote Tory in the next General Election.
You know it makes sense.
You know what will happen if Labour get into power.
The SNP like their current their leader at Holyrood are Yousless.
John Main @3.34pm.
“The disruption of maritime trade in the Red Sea amid the ongoing assaults by Yemen’s Iran-backed Houthi militants on cargo vessels has prompted Israeli freight and logistics firms to bypass the dangerous waters and switch to alternative overland routes to transport goods from the Far East to Israel via Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
Israel-based freight forwarder Mentfield Logistics is among the companies involved in establishing a commercial trade route circumventing the Red Sea by sending goods from the ports of Dubai and Bahrain overland on trucks passing through the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Jordan, and ending at Israeli ports. A second Israel-based firm, Trucknet, has also set up such a route.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/houthi-bypass-quietly-goods-forge-overland-path-to-israel-via-saudi-arabia-jordan/
Republicofscotland,
The franchise itself in 2014 was owned by the a tory, and the votes transported. And not counted as they should have been on site at the voting stations,
There are many cases where Scotland has handed its Sovereignty to a alien power by being naive,
But one of the main stupid mistakes that is repeated in Scotland and by “AS” himself along with many Scottish independence supporters is not recognising themselves as the only other Sovereign Country in the Fallacious treaty of Union.
Many of the Articles of that treaty have been breached time and again,
The Treaty of union did not stipulated that Westminster parliament was to become the parliament of Great- Britain, nor did it State that London would be the new Capital of Britain in any Article,
Neither does any article state that the English parliament upper house “The House of Lords” should be a continence,
All of, both parliaments were supposed to Cease to create the entirely new created parliament of GB.
Whilst the entirety of the Scottish parliament was under Dissolution leaving no Scottish members of Parliament at all to represent the Scots constituents,
There is so much ignorance and naivity in Scotland with regards to the politics in the (details)
By past and present politicians, including Alba,
Wether this is a deliberate ploy by those in the employment of Westminster statue legislated branch office Devolved Government to Scotland or just a plain ignorance gap in their knowledge is difficult to define, but stupidity certainly becomes an appropriate valid excuse to avoiding leading Scotland to independence.
The Colonial unionist and trolls will always be able hold Scots and their kingdom of Scotland in imprisonment of a Colonialised treaty for as long as any Scot wishes to deflect fighting back on the details of the small print of any contractual agreement,
They would right into the small details if the contract was their mortgage, but apparently not so interested in these details if it is for the land under their house called their Country.
The details count,
Here is a excellent scenario that many a person has made,
I read, When some people have bought a copse of woods, they thought they had bought woodland.
But the devils in the detail,
They bought the woods, not the land, it was an error they had missed in the small print of the contract they had by presumption,.
This same attention to detail of Contract, which includes all contractual treaties, the treaty of the union is no exception.
You and I, and pretty much any Solicitor and Lawyer worth their certificates, would and could find many a loop hole and inconsistencies in the treaty of union Contract.
That the upper “House of Lords” of the Old English parliament sits in continuation in the Parliament of Great-Britain is one of those.
While all the related Houses of the old Scottish parliament came under Dissolution in 1707.
This leaves only the upper house, the “House of Lords” actually in the political union of the two respective named parliaments.
A failed and voided 1707 parliamentary union.
Englands old parliament the House of Lords is the sole occupier of the treaty of non parliamentary union.
There are many more treaty of union contractual important details being over looked or deliberately obfuscated by Scottish politicians that they need a good reprimanding for or should be booted out of the pretendy parliament in Scotland,
As the cannot all be stupid and ignorant.
The way out of the union is the door we supposedly came in, that is the obvious solution to Scotland independence.
From Open Democracy. Why it matters.
“That’s why, when the SNP used one of its three opposition day debates a year to force the Commons to discuss what’s happening in Gaza and hold the government to account for its broadly pro-genocide position, the conclusions were going to matter. Not because motions on opposition day debates are binding on the government, but because the rest of the world sees them, and that can influence things.
Had the Commons backed the SNP’s motion, a full-throated call to “end to the collective punishment of the Palestinian people” and “press for a ceasefire now”, it would have been a meaningful statement for the world.
Even if the motion hadn’t passed, voters – the overwhelming majority of whom support such a ceasefire, according to a YouGov poll from December – would have had a chance to see where their MPs stood.”
I see a lot of people saying that none of this matters. “Who cares what we vote on in the UK”. “It won’t make any difference”.
And yet we see the many millions spent by Israel and the USA to buy influence and we see the desperate political cheating to avoid democratic votes in the UK parliament.
I’d suggest it does matter and that there are people who are very concerned at the optics of these votes and what they might lead to.
Personally I am sickened by the UK collusion with the clear genocide taking place in Gaza. This is not being done in my name and I expressly withdraw my support from any politician that claims to represent me in that place.
They should state that we do not consent to the support given in our name, leave, return here and start our own, separate, country.
johnim
What do you mean ran out of Navalnys? The guy has died, is it not worth a bit of recognition he was blatantly killed by his state, like many other Putin critics? The Wagner guy didn’t last much did he either?
Deary me
@Rhuairidh
Totally agree. International pressure has it’s uses, childish to suggest otherwise. Could have said the same about apartheid. We should still condemn it if we want to have a reputation on the wider world.
Sure they should do that but they ain’t doing it cos
Ahhh Bisto!
Apart from that you got any good ideas what we should do?
I’m suggesting all women in Scotland vote Tory.
Is that a good or bad idea?
At today’s ICJ session considering Israel’s history of oppressing Palestinians, the Irish had their Attorney General, Rosa Fanning, speak on behalf of the Irish people.
We Scots have no voice in the proceedings.
@ Republicofscotland says: 22 February, 2024 at 5:06 pm
You wrote at 2:26:
“weapons and supplies are going into Israel, such as shipped to Jordan then trucked over Saudi Arabia into Israel”
Now you’re adding Dubai, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates to your list.
If you can’t work out for yourself how much this story blows out of the water much of your regularly posted narrative, and the narratives of many of the usual suspects, then frankly, I can’t be ersed to explain.
What would be the point? Be as well explaining it to the wall.
OK, I’ll cave.
Five Arab, Islamic countries assisting Israel – business as usual. While we are supposedly endlessly greetin into our drams, wringing our hands, and redefining the meaning of words to pointlessly points score.
Wha’s like us, eh?
“The way out of the union is the door we supposedly came in, that is the obvious solution to Scotland independence.”
James Che.
What I find galling is that in 2015 we 56 SNP of the 59 MPs we send to Westminster yet they did absolutely f*ck all to help dissolve the union they bedded in like the parasites they are and said to hell with independence, even today there’s a majority of SNP MPs at Westminster and still they do SFA to get us out of this rancid union, what a bunch of treacherous b*stards the SNP has become.
Back home at Holyrood they could dissolve their government and run on an indy ticket (majority of MSPs elected) to help get us out of this cesspit of a union, but no these self-serving grifting careerist b*stards don’t give a flying f*ck about a progressive Scotland which can only fill its potential as an independent nation.
Again in 2016 when the Tory government ripped us out of the EU cutting clean across Scottish sovereignty that wee treacherous munchkin b*stards Sturgeon stabbed us in the back by concentrating on moaning about being dragged out the EU via her big yellow bus that she supposedly toured around Scotland in, when she should’ve put every last ounce of energy into dissolving this bucket of shit union.
Now we have another treacherous b*stard squatting in Bute House.
FFS Main & Republicofscotland are at it again.
one clown says ‘weapons and supplies are going into Israel blah blah blah’
the other clown says ‘Oh no they are not’ like some never ending pantomime.
Rev if you really feel for the Gazans after their medieval re-enactment on Oct 07 just remind them: this could all be over if they persuade their degenerate elected representatives to surrender and also hand over the innocent hostages. (Doesn’t have to be in that order by the way). As for SNP and Labour just shows how low they’ll go to pick up the vote of a certain demographic.
Alf Baird.
But Sovereignty cannot be sold, it cannot be bought, and it cannot be stolen,
It will always belong to the people,
And it is the people who have that Sovereignty that they have discarded their rights to it as if it were a piece of modern trash.
There is much to value in antiquities,
Some people are unaware of the object value of what they hold in their hands,
And Scots are no different,
It is time for Scots to look up the historical value of what they hold.
The branch office Scottish pretendy parliament have come like a thief in the night slapping new contraversiel laws over it to disguise where it resides in our own homes and hearths.
These new laws are a master act of deceit taken away your sovereignty through your right to freedom of speaking up against the theft itself.
But thieves, even political thieves are seldom on the right side of the law,
And the theft will only be successful long term if we do not speak up on the right of Sovereign people, and intercept the thieves
When a government, even the pretendy government overreaches itself and becomes a tyranical thief in the night of Scots freedoms of Sovereignty.
Then the Scots must at some point re-establish their Sovereignty over bad Governance and choose a new one, and if it has to be done by the required protocol. Then disarming the fallacious treaty of union is the legal way forward by suspending it while under investigation for breaches of that treaty,
It is up to the Sovereign people of Scotland to do this, by a convening a open convention of the Sovereign people of Scotland under the right of self- determination to choose a government best suited to their needs.
We Scots have no voice in the proceedings.
Of course we don’t ‘cos we are just a colony of a warmongering nation.
Women in Scotland Vote Tory
What else can we do?
Wow and the snp apologists suddenly crawl out of the woodwork ,do any of you actually BELIEVE that these self serving creatures within that scum nonce party down in londonium give a shit what is happening in Gaza
That fucking NED standing up and pontificating about anything down in that rat’s nest gives me the boak , it is ALL stage managed,an actor playing a part irrespective what the subject matter is, and he has his entourage of CLOWNS clapping like the proverbial seals that they are
When you calculate how many are gleefully embraced in the American sponsorship programmes which encourages good old boy American principles it further exposes their fake hand wringing platitudes
When I look at that DROSS sitting there supposedly representing the cream of Scottish politics I am filled with REVULSION and SHAME and I question the intelligence of the people who voted for these MORONS. FFS what am I missing
I recently joined Sinn Fein as a Cairde Shinn Fein [non-Irish] member. Will it bring Scotland’s independence any closer? Nope. But it makes me feel less crappy.
Britain is run on conventions – such conventions regulate both crown and parliament.
So my question is:- “Can any and all conventions be overruled? And if so WHO is it that decides?”
@ Ian Brotherhood says: 22 February, 2024 at 5:37 pm
We Scots have no voice in the proceedings
I’m thinking it’s just as well.
If the comments here are anything to go by, our “voice” would be calling for one side to stop fighting and accept extermination from the side that is not being told to stop.
Not good “optics” there.
Maybes our “voice” could agree to take a few hundred thousand Israeli refugees – start the ball rolling – there will be several million in total to re-home.
That’s the obvious outcomes of a one sided cease fire – a genocide, and not a pretendy one either – or millions of refugees on the move.
As I wrote, it really is best we don’t get those options exposed to outright ridicule on the world stage.
@ Ted says: 22 February, 2024 at 5:52 pm
if you really feel for the Gazans after their medieval re-enactment on Oct 07 just remind them: this could all be over if they persuade their degenerate elected representatives to surrender and also hand over the innocent hostages. (Doesn’t have to be in that order by the way). As for SNP and Labour just shows how low they’ll go to pick up the vote of a certain demographic
Ah, c’mon now Ted.
If you’re going to post truths and facts like that one, you best wait until the orderlies have sat the Wings BTL inmates on their po’s for their morning bowel movements.
This time of day, they’re gonna be clawing the excrement out their fundaments to fling at you.
Incominggggggg
Sigh, another day and yet more of the same Party political bollox playing out. It’s like moths round a light or flies round shite.
At what point will folk wake up and realise that the current iteration of Party politics is beyond salvaging.
By all means continue with the insanity of electing a Party politician to represent you, but you should know fine well they can’t / won’t do that because they are owned by their respective Parties rather than their constituents.
So you get Parties that focus on delivering all manner of policies we don’t want or even asked for, whilst not delivering the stuff we do want.
There is a way for constituents to have far better control over their respective politicians that are meant to represent them, but as naebody seems interested in developing that concept and taking that route then best you all crack on and enjoy the misery and outrage of being continually misrepresented and shat on.
I find it more than slightly distasteful that many of those screaming now in histrionic fashion about Gaza had never even mentioned the place before last October; indeed, many of the blue-rinse-and-nose-piercings brigade had probably never heard of the place before. But they are told to protest against the Israelis, so off they go.
They have zero idea that there has been fighting over that flyblown stretch of desert since before the time of Christ, but they are going to stop it by screaming on Twitter. Fucking idiots.
I fail to see what this interminable conflict has to do with Scotland, Yousaf’s screeching nutty wife aside. She’s behind all this, and clearly wears the trousers in the family. The ransom was paid by the taxpayer for her family, now we’re all meant to care about her pet cause.
Eh..no.
I hated it when Scotland only had one form of sectarianism, i.e. Tim vs Proddy. Now we’ve got Jew vs Muslim as well! Madness. Hamas raped and murdered women and children last October. The Zionists are evil genocidal bastards. Both sides want the other wiped out.
It has NOTHING to do with Scotland, or with that cunt failed-upwards cunt Yousaf offering Scotland’s nonexistent NHS resources and housing to Palestians when their Muslim neighbours won’t even take them! This country has now become a cash cow plaything for the private causes of those with no loyalty to it, putting the Middle East first, and it needs to FUCKING STOP. NOW.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/politics-by-dummies/comment-page-1/#comment-2825887
Go here to read John Main’s latest piece of creative writing.
Creative writing = making shit up
Labour destroyed the possibility of MPs passing a motion for an immediate, unconditional ceasefire by undemocratically coercing the Speaker into allowing their amendment replete with meaningless US approved language.
Starmer and the Labour party are in thrall to the Zionist lobby, and Starmer has described himself himself in the Jerusalem post as a “Zionist”.
This whole charade is because UK and Labour foreign policy is being determined by foreign powers – the US and Israel.
This matter is much too serious for party political games, which you appear to have played to assist the Speaker’s political party – the former Labour Party – which is now a total disgrace in thrall to the zionist lobby.
What makes this matter even worse is that there would appear to have been a personal calculus on his part to protect his future position as speaker, and hence his income.
If so, this is utterly contemptible on any matter, let alone on a matter as serious as this.
It is alleged that his decision followed a threat by Labour to remove support for his appointment post-election were he not to carry out this stunt on their behalf.
We in Scotland have long known that we are second class non-citizens in this contemptible so-called Union. Hoyle’s behaviour merely confirms that impression – and not for the first time.
But the most important casualties of his disgraceful behaviour are the poor people of Gaza, who some have failed to notice, are suffering genocide at the hands of the zionist state.
I have no delusions that it would have had any effect other than symbolic.
But symbolism is important in politics.
The most useful and logical thing the SNP can now do is withdraw from that cesspit.
But their sinecures won’t allow them to do that.
Yet another excellent article from Stu. However, the comments from the majority of our esteemed posters are about the worst I have ever seen.
The Scottish political scene is in an almighty mess. Fuelled by useless Politicians and posters writing about subjects they know very little about. Folks like to display there ignorance on all matters of subjects on here.
Anybody took the time to find out what Palestinians think about Hamas?
Lose Scottish independence
Vote tory,
Vote labour,
Vote snp,
Vote greens
Left foot in left, left foot out, do the hokey cokey and turn around,
Woahh the Ohh the hokey cokey,
Repeat
Why repeat?
“Personally I am sickened by the UK collusion with the clear genocide taking place in Gaza”
The thing is, and it is what I will never forget nor forgive, it is the SNP what has put us in this position. Scotland has remained part of the UK for the last 9 years and is therefore part this unmoral collusion with genocide is done on Scotland’s name as well because the SNP has forced us to continue playing the losers’ game and has forced Scotland to remain trapped in this union despite sending to Westminster 3 anti-union majorities.
If we were embarrassed by the theatrics of yesterday, it is because the SNP chose to betray its own party constitution since 2015 to become a devolutionist party that has been, for the last 9 years, systematically denying Scotland its legitimate right to end this union. The union should have ended the minute the people of Scotland sent 56 anti-union MPs to Westminster. Yet, the SNP chose to enjoy their salaries and sinecures instead.
If we have been insulted for the last 9 years every time England MPs ganged up against Scotland, it is only because the SNP chose to use our anti-union votes to preserve the union and their own sinecures instead of ending the union, which is what they should have done the minute Scotland sent the first anti-union majority to Westminster, never mind after three.
If we were undemocratically dragged out of the EU, it was only because the SNP chose to play along with the Westminster and UK establishment’s game and allowed it to happen instead of either stopping it, or ending the union so England and Scotland could go separate ways.
If Scotland’s assets are still being pillaged or auctioned for a pittance today, it is only because the SNP has been giving the green light for it to happen, instead of ending the union to stop it.
If the SNP’s ceasefire bill yesterday was not even put to a vote, it was only because the SNP chose to force Scotland to continue being part of a foreign parliament that only cares about what England and the English crown wants.
If we are having to go to yet another UK general election after 9 effing years of Scotland sending anti-union majorities, it is only because the SNP continues to refuse to act on Scotland’s mandate to end the union.
If we are still having to be bored to tears listening to Curtice’s predictions of a labour resurrection in Scotland despite being conscious the vote turnout is going on a downwards spiral, it is only because the SNP refused to act on the mandate to end the union represented by 3 consecutive majorities of anti-union MPs.
If we are still having to put up with England MPs coming to Scotland to lord over us, to pretend they have the right to deny us our own self-determination, to pretend they know better than us what we want or how we want it, it is because the SNP refused to end the union in 20
I am sickened by corrupt politics.
I am sickened by the same political games over and over again.
I am sickened by the continuous undermining of democracy.
I am sickened of watching politicians attempting to deceive Scotland time and time again.
I am sickened of listening to politicians vacuous waffle.
I am sickened by mediocre politicians, careerists and impostors thinking the average Scottish voter is so thick that they won’t notice what they are doing.
Sending MPs to have Scotland’s voice to be heard my backside. How long do they think they can keep up this betrayal of Scotland by its own political class?
I am sickened by the whole darn charade.
Let’s never forget. We are where we are because the SNP forced us to be here. Sturgeon might have been a political fraud, but, by hell, the rest of the party, the rest of the MSPs, the rest of the MPs did not lift a finger to stop her when in her vicious quest to completely destroy Scotland’s political vehicle for independence and rendering it completely useless.
May the entire SNP burn in hell for betraying their country and their country folk in such selfish and disgusting manner.
“Personally I am sickened by the UK collusion with the clear genocide taking place in Gaza”
The thing is, and it is what I will never forget nor forgive, it is the SNP what has put us in this position. Scotland has remained part of the UK for the last 9 years and is therefore part this immoral collusion with genocide is done on Scotland’s name as well because the SNP has forced us to continue playing the losers’ game and has forced Scotland to remain trapped in this union despite sending to Westminster 3 anti-union majorities.
If we were embarrassed by the theatrics of yesterday, it is only because the SNP chose to betray its own party constitution since 2015 to become a devolutionist party that has been, for the last 9 years, systematically denying Scotland its legitimate right to end this union. The union should have ended the minute the people of Scotland sent 56 anti-union MPs to Westminster. Yet, the SNP chose to enjoy their salaries and sinecures instead.
If we have been insulted for the last 9 years every time England MPs ganged up against Scotland, it is only because the SNP chose to use our anti-union votes to preserve the union and their own sinecures instead of ending the union, which is what they should have done the minute Scotland sent the first anti-union majority to Westminster, never mind after three.
If we were undemocratically dragged out of the EU, it was only because the SNP chose to play along with the Westminster and UK establishment’s game and allowed brexit to happen instead of either stopping it, or ending the union so England and Scotland could go separate ways.
If Scotland’s assets are still being pillaged or auctioned for a pittance today, it is only because the SNP has been giving the green light for it to happen, instead of ending the union to stop it.
If the SNP’s ceasefire bill yesterday was not even put to a vote, it was only because the SNP chose to force Scotland to continue being part of a foreign parliament that only cares about what England and the English crown wants.
If we are having to go to yet another UK general election after 9 effing years of Scotland sending anti-union majorities, it is only because the SNP continues to refuse to act on Scotland’s mandate to end the union.
If we are still having to be bored to tears listening to Curtice’s predictions of a labour resurrection in Scotland despite being conscious the vote turnout is going on a downwards spiral, it is only because the SNP refused to act on the mandate to end the union represented by 3 consecutive majorities of anti-union MPs.
If we are still having to put up with England MPs coming to Scotland to lord over us, to pretend they have the right to deny us our own self-determination, to pretend they know better than us what we want or how we want it, it is because the SNP refused to end the union in 2015 and has been refusing to do it ever since.
I am sickened by corrupt politics.
I am sickened by watching our representatives playing the same political games over and over again.
I am sickened by the continuous undermining of democracy.
I am sickened of watching politicians attempting to deceive Scotland time and time again.
I am sickened of listening to politicians’ vacuous, repetitive and meaningless waffle.
I am sickened by mediocre politicians, careerists and impostors thinking the average Scottish voter is so thick that they won’t notice what they are doing.
Sending MPs to have Scotland’s voice to be heard my backside. How long do they think they can keep up this betrayal of Scotland by its own political class?
I am sickened by the whole darn charade.
Let’s never forget. We are where we are because the SNP forced us to be here. Sturgeon might have been a political fraud, but, by hell, the rest of the party, the rest of the MSPs, the rest of the MPs did not lift a finger to stop her when in her vicious quest to completely destroy Scotland’s political vehicle for independence and rendering it completely useless.
May the entire SNP burn in hell for betraying their country and their country folk in such selfish and disgusting manner.
Yesterday’s disgraceful events may have the unintended consequence of hammering home another nail in the coffin of the deeply dysfunctional crypto medieval British nationalist project. The more people see it in its awful majesty, the Ruritanian pomp and ridiculous procedural flummery that goes on, the more scunnered they will become.
We have to be able to do better than that, even leaving aside the spectacular melt down of the SNP nearer home.
Enough and more than enough of this kind of thing. No better example can be had of the clear and present dangers to Scotland, her people and their future freedom, security and success than staying shackled to the rotting corpse of unionism as exemplified by what these deluded charlatans call the mother of parliaments.
Main, that’s downright ridiculous, with the full might of US Imperial weaponry and technology available to Israel.
John Cleary,
I suppose a sovereign peoples convention, depends on wether you think or consider you are the property of government or the government work for you,
In a democracy where you vote or pay taxes for the upkeep of your government towards your freedoms and infrastructure.
You have decide wether government owns you, and does not apply democracy to you, or you have the right to self-determination as stated in human rights.
Are you a human with rights?
Or are you a owned object?
Westminster parliament is renowned for breaking, altering or breaching its conventions,
However where you are still voting a parliament in a democracy, you are the Sovereign regardless.
I’m very surprised at your position on this, and I assume you’ve become so anti-SNP that you are unable to critique accurately what went on here.
Even as a fairly anti-SNP person myself, I can see that the SNP were absolutely shafted by Labour and the Speaker here. Their right to manage their own debate in the Commons was fatally undermined, and it doesn’t matter if they were being cynical in their choice of language for their motion – that was their right, and no different from any other politicians.
And it begs the question, since when has Wings become so piously virtuous about politics? You usually take the position of doing whatever needs to be done to achieve independence (which I’m obviously against), and if Labour do win the next election, I would have thought the last thing the Independence movement needs is an even more manipulative Westminster ruling Scotland that breaks rules to stop Independence being achieved. So I have to conclude you’ve lost your usually excellent analytical skills on this one due to your anti-SNP bias.
They were not allowed to vote on their own bill. They had no choice but yo walk out. RevStu you are completely wrong and must apologise. You anti snp blinkers are distorting reality. You are a laughing stock.
CLUELESS on GAZA
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/02/22/gaza-and-the-narcissism-of-the-elites/
They were not allowed to vote on their own bill. They had no choice but to walk out. RevStu you are completely wrong and must apologise. You anti snp blinkers are distorting reality. You are a laughing stock.
They were not allowed to vote on their own bill. They had no choice but to walk out. RevStu you are completely wrong and must apologise. You anti snp blinkers are distorting reality. You are a laughing stock. Stu the clown.?
Democracy for all people is slowly being eroded in and by the political parliamentary parties across Britain when they do this internal elections to change party leaders that the population has not voted in at Westminster and in Scotlands pretendy parliament.you see this in the new SNP leader not voted in by the people of Scotland and by Rushi Sunaks position as leader,
The SWITCH in leaders is internal, and not democratic in Britain, sooner or later the people will cotton on that the governments are have gone rogue and are acting as if they own the people, not the other way round, and think they are accountable to none of the people in all of Britain,
In this regard it is beginning to parallel, as a tyrannical government in other Countries, and one day the people will realise that our western values are no better than any of the other Countries we try over throw to instil our kind of specialised democracy,
It is sad, but true, that now it is a accepted fact in Scotland, that instead of Scottish politicians like the Snp and all in the devolved parliament parties lifting themselves, their sights and morals to a higher level above this kind of politics they have debased themselves enthusiastically into the slum of politicians in Westminster now thinking they are above and control own all other humans.
I watch as much politics as I can from around the world, and honestly it is difficult to find a Country that its leaders do not think of themselves as anything other than mini gods.
@ Gordon says: 22 February, 2024 at 6:39 pm
that’s downright ridiculous, with the full might of US Imperial weaponry and technology available to Israel
You’re not really making it clear what you think is “downright ridiculous”.
But I’ll play along. Let’s you and me go down into a concrete tunnel. I’ll take turns shooting at you with a Kalashnikov, and RPGs. Depending on my mood, I may also hide some 500 gram IED’s here and there in advance.
Don’t be scared. You can take the “full might of US Imperial weaponry and technology” down with you.
Should be a walkover for you, eh?
Did I say? I get to spend months in advance mapping out the horizontals and verticals, the corners, the dead ends, the fields of fire, the loop backs, the ranges, etc.
It’s gotta be new territory for you, soz, but never mind, you’ll still have the “full might of US Imperial weaponry and technology”.
Oh, almost forgot. I’ll have a few of your pals tied up behind me, and same of my family arranged in front of me too. Dinna you go shooting them now.
C’mon Gordo, let’s rumble!
Stu is rarely wrong and the SNP rarely gets anything right. But even a stopped clock is correct twice a day and on this occasion the SNP is right and Stu is wrong.
Mia,
Sending MPs to have Scotlands voice heard is a hilarious joke.
The Mps from Scotland are employees of Westminster through Statues and legislation Scotland Act,
They are not from a Scottish parliament.
The Scottish parliament ha been under ” Dissolution” and has no members to represent Scottish constituents voices since 1707.
And has never been re- instated.
They people you speak of are not Scottish politicians in a legal context.
They sometimes politicians that are connected to Scotland by land ownership or occasionally bide in Scotland.
Can Main not get his handler to get the hostages back?
https://archive.is/2023.04.16-181104/https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2020-02-24/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-israel-mossad-chief-doha-qatar-continue-hamas-gaza-money-transfer/0000017f-ded8-d856-a37f-ffd88a960000
It’s almost like they don’t want them back.
#JohnMainisadick
@ Ian Stewart
” Even as a fairly anti-SNP person myself, I can see that the SNP were absolutely shafted by Labour and the Speaker here. ”
That’ll be the same Labour Party Nu SNP have been following around , puppy-eyed , tongues lolling , hoping to be thrown a bone when ” man of the People ” ( HA ! ) Stamzy wins the Uranus Prize and every chip shop in the land will sell guacamole .
What the SNP will be thrown is a stick , and told to fetch it , then , having done so , insert in an anatomically sensitive location .
The point is the SNP ( or any ( even nominally ) pro-Independence Party ) will ALWAYS be shafted by Labour and the Speaker : and by the Tories , Lib Dems or whatever English Party or expedient combination of English Parties is in power at any given time .
Watching people yr ” not fond ” of battering their heads against a big jaggy wall , with mindless repetition , is only entertaining for so long before it becomes tediously boring .
If the SNP are so outraged at the ( utterly predictable ) treatment they’ve received in that place – WTF are they still doing there ?
Looking under their benches for that spine they lost some time ago ?
@TURABDIN
Yes
“They were not allowed to vote on their own bill”
What do you mean “they were not allowed”?
If they did not vote on the bill is because they chose not to.
It is because they chose to legitimise that parliament and the continuous abuse of Scotland. It is because they chose to amuse themselves by playing the loser role in Westminster’s rigged game instead of acting upon what they have been voted in to do for the last 9 years: to deliver Scotland’s independence.
Had the SNP acted on progressing Scotland’s independence instead of topping up the fuel tank of their gravy bus and pulling the hand-break on Scotland’s momentum towards statehood, and that bill could have been debated and voted in Scotland’s own parliament, which is where it belonged. Instead, the SNP chose to waste the bill in a foreign parliament so it can now play, yet again, the worn out victim’s card.
After 9 years of majorities, you cannot seriously expect us to believe the SNP has not yet learnt the lesson that Scotland’s voice will never be heard in Westminster, when the average voter has known that since the brexit vote, can you? They are playing the fool and taking us for fools.
So, what is the SNP going to do about what happened yesterday? Are they going to demand the Speaker and Starmer to be sacked for gross misconduct and tampering with a democratic process? Are they just going to whine a bit about it to see if playing the victim card will hoover them a few extra votes in the upcoming GE? or are they going to, finally, do something about it?
They have the power to recall Scotland’s MPs and hold a vote to terminate the union tomorrow. Actually, they can do it tonight. They could have done it immediately after the charade took place. So why didn’t they? Do they fear to lose the opportunity for a HoL seat? How many minutes do we have to wait until they embarrass Scotland by walking back into that cesspit again to continue legitimising it and, with their tail between the legs, ready to humiliate and embarrass Scotland all over again?
“They had no choice but to walk out”
Nonsense. They have had the power to end the union every single day since 8 May 2015. They chose not to. They chose to act as losers instead of winners. They chose to whine instead of acting. They chose to legitimise that parliament instead of terminating it. They have nobody else to blame other than themselves.
“must apologise”
When is the SNP going to apologise to the yes voters for their disgusting betrayal of our trust and their abuse of our anti-union votes so they could preserve the union for the last 9 years?
@Mia
“If they did not vote on the bill is because they chose not to.”
You are wrong. No vote was held. It was impossible to vote. No one voted.
This isn’t a subject that I don’t want to be involved in but I see that there are a few posters who are criticising the Rev’s point.
These posters may have a point but it I can’t help but feel it is telling that about only a half of the SNP MP’s have signed the vote of no confidence.
I’m not those who have not signed the vote of no confidence have their reasons but considering the SNP are making so much of an issue of this subject, wouldn’t it have made sense to ensure that the majority of their MP’s would be signing it beforehand so these accusations can’t be made against them?
Ultimately though, regardless of whether the Rev is right or wrong, the SNP isn’t looking good on this.
@Turabdin 7.20 pm
Indeed. I particularly like the line:
As if Israel gives a single shit what a gaggle of bourgeois SNPers who don’t even know what a woman is think about its war on Hamas.
@ TURABDIN says: 22 February, 2024 at 7:20 pm
That’s some link, TURABDIN, thanks for posting.
It’s not often I feel the adjective “coruscating” is deserved.
BTW, who’s the NF thug demonstrating about the one that got away (I hope that’s what he’s demonstrating) in the pic?
And why is there only 43 of these SNP lard asses in WM? From the pic, you could carve a handful of kilos off every one of them and use the fat to assemble a few more, just as productive, just as much good for Scotland, and every bit as smart.
Pin a yellow badge on each fatberg and just as electable too.
It is hard to see how the SNP could move away from having no confidence in Hoyle should he stay in post. Might that make their continuing attendance in HoC difficult?
I enjoy seeing the SNP suffer. They humiliated themselves yet again.
I despise each and every one of them. ALISON THEWLISS. STEVEN FLYNN. MORONS.
Flynn stood with Israel when it all kicked off with Hamas.
He wanted a quick response.
Who is he kidding?
And he loves Zelensky. It is an honour Mr zelensky.
Gees peace. Away you go and sip another glass of champagne on the balcony of Westminster. He’s a moron.
@Garavelli Princip 6.29: pretty well sums up my feelings.
As you say, Starmer (he of the CIA-controlled shadowy Trilateral Commission) has described himself as a Zionist first and foremost and when asked to choose between Westminster and the World Economic Forum he answered, “Davos” in a nano-second. He doesn’t give a flying fruit-bat for UK voters but is a useful principle-free puppet.
Politics and politicians in the UK are not controlled by or accountable to their electorate (what a quaint notion) but by wealthy lobbyists such as the Zionists, Big Pharma, the arms industry, the Green catastrophists and the other various insidious strands of Globalism.
Ironically, yesterday in Westminster has merely shown that there is no place there for a party which genuinely espouses Scottish independence because of the contempt and parliamentary exclusion the SNP routinely receive there.
I was going to say “suffer” there but it seems they are happy to put up with their daily humiliation in return for a fat salary, pension and expenses. The parliamentary SNP will be back in their plush green seats next week whatever happens, I have little doubt.
Events such as these simply build the case for abstaining from WM but, as you say, none of the SNP grifters will have the principles to countenance such a radical rejection of its rancid and arcane procedures at the expense of their lifestyles.
Ian Blackford will seek to become commons speaker if Hoyle resigns.
He wants to stay in London with his new girlfriend who looks much uglier than his ex wife.
I hope he gets it.
Dorothy 4:08
“I’d like to know more about why some MP’s felt threatened”
Watch the Labour files.
Friends of I*rael run the Labour party like the mafia. They hunt ppl down, stalk them, threaten them & their family, deselect them, make their job unbearable.
Look what happened to Corbyn & the astro turfing of protests calling for his head on shit he never done.
That’s what MPs are scared of & why those lobbyists groups need to get to fck out of Westminster. They’re unelected pond scum. Influencing votes & Westminster. I*real proudly boasts it’s a fas*ist state & they roasters in these lobbying groups are on manoeuvre to do the same here.
Westminster & other EU nations should never have signed up to that idiot pledge where criticism of I*real is a crime. This is it in all its glory. Everyone falling into line. They’re animals for what they’re doing to unarmed civilians & it’s not antisemitic to openly condemn this genocide.
That why NO ONE should be voting Labour. Absolutely no one. If they’re not mutilating weans they’re complicit in mass murder of innocents.
Tinto Chiel
Well said.
Our own don’t escape this nonsense either. Heads turned by American & I*raeli interference.
Kate Forbes, McDonald, that Cary halfwit & a few others been whisked off for some secret indoctrination.
No good will ever come from electing ppl to take a seat. They’d be completely captured & this whole pantomime of sending MPs there would just be a repeat of the Dross that’s already there with a mandate burning a hole in their pockets.
“No vote was held. It was impossible to vote. No one voted”
I am afraid you might have missed the point. The SNP did not vote because since 2015, instead of progressing independence and acting on the anti-union majorities they were given, they chose instead to continue, with their presence there, legitimising Westminster as the UK parliament, and they chose to protect their salaries by preserving the union instead of terminating it.
Had they progressed Scotland’s independence and the situation would have been completely different. That motion would have been debated and voted in Scotland’s own parliament instead of being totally wasted in a foreign parliament that deliberately plays dumb, blind and deaf when it comes to paying attention to Scotland’s needs, wants and rights.
The question now is what the SNP are going to do about it. Are they going to reverse their 9 years’ long useless track record into something meaningful or are they just going to continue playing the victim’s and loser’s game while enjoying the comforts of the gravy train seats until the next GE.
Mia @ 8:17 pm
“They have the power to recall Scotland’s MPs and hold a vote to terminate the union tomorrow. Actually, they can do it tonight.”
They sure do, and Westminster cannot lawfully legislate for Scotland without Scottish representatives:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/determinants-of-independence-constitution/
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/12/12/the-route-is-thereif-the-snp-use-it/
Politics is for dummies?. I went to my first Alba meeting tonight. Kenny MacAskill was in the chair. The first time in years I have heard a Scottish Politician be passionate about Scottish Independence. Some internal party machinations were discussed but as he said to be expected in an embroynic political party. I got some hope from that meeting. None of the political opinions or policy debates worried me.
Some great discussions here and particularly like all of Mia’s comments.
She has it the SNP have been grifters von artists taking all of the independence campaigners for fools.
We need a party like Sinn Fein, who will leave Westminster over a debacle like the speakers last night.
It is one clear end the union matter.
Will the SNP come back to Edinburgh to govern , of course not. We have no decent MPs except for the 2 in Alba.
We have a long road to build back, to achieve independence now.
The SNP were trying to trip up Labour and missed completely, falling flat on their own arse instead.
The only thing salvageable is to get rid of that loathsome idiot Hoyle. Hopefully by this time next week he’ll be gone, then we’ll see just how much “settling in” versus “settling up” the likes of Wishart and Blackford are committed to.
I think we already know…
I see that many people are struggling to contain their contempt for the SNP and are allowing that contempt to distort their minds when it comes to everything else, even the genocidal attack on Palestinians.
We are right into “all lives matter” territory and pandering to the twitching and twisted confusion of small angry minds, but let’s try and clarify.
It’s okay to hold the SNP in total contempt. They deserve it. We all agree on that.
But virtue signalling? We are watching genocide and there’s nothing particularly virtuous about asking those responsible to stop, or asking them to refrain from targeting civilians. It’s really the bare minimum that could be expected of civilised human beings.
What they are signalling, if anything, is that they are towing the British Government line on Israel, and that’s something they have done repeatedly since Sturgeon took over. There’s really very little difference between the SNP and Tory Government position on this — and effectively no difference between asking for a “humanitarian pause” in the fighting and asking for a “humanitarian ceasefire”.
They should be condemning Israel in the strongest terms, demanding an end to arms shipments, and talking about sanctions. If just about any other country in the Middle East was behaving like this, they’d be queuing up in support of air strikes.
The real question is who they are signalling to, though, not what they are signalling. It’s pretty clear that public opinion is against Israel and against genocide. So, it’s another example of the SNP pretending they stand for some alternative when they really don’t. If they’re virtue signalling, it’s to Israel, the US, and the British State.
However much people in here, on TV, and elsewhere want to try and tell us our opinions on the subject don’t matter, forget it, there’s nothing we can do, it won’t make any difference (as if our opinion on independence or anything else matters), the ordinary people of the UK and Scotland obviously think otherwise.
The plight of the Palestinians is a much more important and much more urgent issue than Scottish independence because none of us and none of our friends and family are likely to be blown to pieces tonight. And it’s as simple as that.
Goodnight everyone.
Further to my comments earlier. I should have declared my friendship with an Engineer of 30 years. I worked with him in the North of Scotland. He went to Grangemouth Refinery and was the resident engineer and has just retired after 30 years. He is SNP but has definite plans for the saving Grangemouth Plant, 800000 barrels a day down to 100000 barrels from the Forties pipeline. Join the dots. The saving of the Grangemouth Refinery was material at the Alba meeting tonight and the political consequences of 10000 jobs lost in West Lothian. I specialise in Power Systems and merger acquisition activities. Can I get my friend to meet Kenny about Grangemouth. The wives meet up with us every 3 months. Time is running out.
Alf Baird.
Is it not the case that if Scottish politicians withdraw from Westminster to the branch office of Westminster devolved government there is no difference.
Scotland still has no representatives.
The the devolved government is Westminsters baby.
Westminster hold the rights of Statues, legislation which includes reservations to Westminster parliament.
The SNP would simple be withdrawing to the branch office of Westminster placed in Scotland, these so called Scottish politician are Westminsters babies too,
And the take the (payed heat) to be the pretend opposition fall guys in Westminster, similar to the payed to loose oponant in the boxing ring or wrestling match,
that is the political circus of Britain, the shadow world.
The last time Scotland had Scottish representation was prior to the Dissolution of the Scottish parliament in 1707.
And therefore have no legal members to represent their Scottish constituents legally since that date,
The Scottish political employees under the “Scotland Act” from Westminster parliament are in fact employees of the same parliament in England and must be representing both sides of the parliament in England at one and the same time, the parliament of England sent to Scotland under the Scotland act.
Neat trick by Westminster parliament.
Independence will never be allowed by simply withdrawing employees in Scotland of Westminster parliament to Scotland who are also employees of Westminster parliament under the Scotland acts.
Westminster controls and owns two parliaments over Scots. The Uk parliament and the uk devolved parliament to Scotland,
Both under
England only has the one uk parliament to control it.
Scotland has two UK parliaments to control Scots,
Like I mentioned earlier a neat trick of power control and slight of hand by Westminster parliament whilst breaching the treaty of union, of there will be ater the union w,” One parliament of Great- Britain hereafter”.
Political parties aside, it is now very clear to everybody that Westminster is the ENGLISH parliament, for ENGLAND, by ENGLAND. Those other wee people they tolerate from Wales, Scotland and Ireland, are just meaningless frippery, designed to lend democratic credibility.
Westminster is the English COLONIAL parliament. It is all it ever was. Those in Wales and Scotland who indulge this sham of democracy, are fools to themselves and the people they claim to represent.
Sinn Fein has the right approach. Never, ever, set foot in that god-forsaken, undemocratic ENGLISH sh*t hole, lest you give it a veneer of credibility.
As for the pathetic SNP? Oh, they walk out, then walk right back in. They all know a gravy train when they see it.
FYI, Lindsey Hoyle is a Scotland-hating, incompetent wee English jobby. Should never have been given the job in the first place.
https://archive.is/TW7uP
The bible has been brought into the discussion which is fair enough as the conflict seems to be all about religion.
According to this the Bible states that the Jews are God’s chosen people.
I’m not up to date with all the hate crimes so I’m not getting why it isn’t OK to criticise a religion/religions.
I understand Ross Greer is a another devout Christian. My question to Ross Greer & John Mason would be why is God allowing all this killing.
What kind of God has favourites & allows these favourites to kill. Does the bible not say ‘Thou shalt not kill’
To Humza Yousaf: Why is Allah allowing this? Is there a reason for it?
In the meantime I’m praying for world peace. Not sure who I’m praying to but I feel it’s all I can do.
Maybe what we need is a lot less Christians, Jews & Muslims & a lot more Buddhists.
If we had more Buddhists a cease fire would be guaranteed in fact the killing would never have started.
@Mia
“I am afraid you might have missed the point.”
I didn’t miss the point. i told you why you were wrong about the SNP not voting.
Mia doesn’t make comments Mia writes articles and indiscriminately drops them into the comments of any blog that accommodates her giant ego.
I am not impressed.
Should we care what the world thinks of the UK? Would it not be better if the UK is seen for what it is?
People have very little choice when it comes to MPs. The choice we have in the next GE will either be Labour or Tory When it comes to warmongering they look to be pretty much the same.
George Ferguson has asked me not to comment on his posts and I will respect his wishes. However I see no reason why others don’t.
His two comments are probably two of the most interesting comments on the entire thread.
I can’t help but feel that some posters are letting their justified anger towards events in Gaza to cloud their judgement of the actions of the SNP.
I don’t remember the SNP being critical of 1sreal’s invasion of Gaza at the beginning and given the rhetoric of the 1sreali government a the time, it was obvious they weren’t going to ‘just take out the terrorists’, they were going to go to town with the Palestinians.
Of course it is right to change your mind about something when events that you had previously supported changes but there is the charge put against you of hypocrisy and as I previously mentioned, if you are going to take a principled stand against it, you need to ensure that everybody in your party supports it.
Alex Salmond has been criticised many times in the past with his opposition to conflicts that the UK has been involved in. Most, if not all of the times he has been proven right because war is the last action that any society should involve itself in and when it does, it is going to turn ugly.
In that way, if the SNP had been vocal of the conflict from the start or at least raised concerns about it, they could be justified in taking their position now but they stand accused of virtual signalling as public opinion is starting to go against it.
@ Hatuey says: 23 February, 2024 at 1:20 am
asking them to refrain from targeting civilians
No need to worry yer pretty little head on that one, Hats. As the IDF is not targeting civilians, we can walk away happy. But yes, they are targeting terrorists hiding behind civilians. Let’s call on the terrorists to stop hiding behind civilians then. We’re waiting …
the bare minimum that could be expected of civilised human beings
Civilised human beings don’t capture daft, dancing lassies, gang rape them, torture them, mutilate them, and kill them, capturing the whole thing on their GoPro’s. We can logically conclude therefore, that the terrorists who did these things on October 7 aren’t civilised human beings, and happily see them destroyed.
towing It’s toeing, Hats. Still struggling with the language, eh?
If just about any other country in the Middle East was behaving like this, they’d be queuing up in support of air strikes
What, like the west didn’t do in Syria? But why restrict it to the ME? Gonna call for air strikes to save the innocents of 404?
Don’t make me fecking laugh.
It’s pretty clear that public opinion is against Israel and against genocide
It’s pretty clear there are lots of Palestinians in the UK prepared to try to get us to side with the jihadists. Plus a few useful eejits. Take a bow, Hats. As for the rest of us, we’re not so fecking daft as not to be able to recognise a growing Islamist insurrection when we see one.
And it’s still not a genocide either. Buy yersel a dictionary. Or read the ICJ judgement.
the ordinary people of the UK and Scotland obviously think otherwise
Awa an shite, man. The pics of the demos reveal just how “ordinary” your otherwise thinkers are. “Ordinary” Scots don’t wander the streets with towels on their heids covered with Arabic writing.
none of us and none of our friends and family are likely to be blown to pieces tonight
Aw, Hats, I’m welling up here. Only two years since you were happily posting that innocent women and children on the receiving end of high explosives “had it coming”. There were no fighters hiding behind these victims either.
Soz, Hats, but your credibility ran out long ago.
Do you know what I think is really gripping your water, Hats? Your jihadist chums are going down to defeat.
Israel has made it clear it’s gonna happen, so the choice is: do it the easy way, or do it the hard way.
I’m calling for the easy way, which is both sides stop fighting, and both sides exchange hostages and prisoners. That can be done immediately, and the agony of the innocent Palestinians will be over.
What are you calling for, eh Hats? One side to stop fighting, and the other side to keep right on with the killing?
We see you for what you are, Hats, and we see the kind of people you want to make common cause with.
Here we go with the ‘some posters’ ‘usual suspects’ gibberish. Name these posters and then they can respond to your accusation.
Seems half relevant to tack this link on.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/two-woke-princes/
—–
@ George Ferguson
Re. Grangemouth
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives step in to save aspects of the plant nearer election time so they can been seen as saviours and garner votes…
There are some posters on here who can only be described as ‘a fuckin’ nutter’.
Does Genocide John Main get paid for writing this b#llshit?
https://x.com/propandco/status/1739077157807104059?s=20
“As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly”
I have a depressing feeling that all around us, windows of opportunity are closing.
We are coming to the end of SNP “dominance”. They were given repeated opportunities and mandates on Independence tickets, and they’ve ingloriously squandered every one. Yes, I do say “they”, not “we”, because they have indeed turned their backs on our Independence cause, and their self centred incompetence has done incalculable damage to Scotland. I have nothing in common with these wasters.
Another dishonourable era is coming to a close in the Middle East. Sadly, it is not the end of a butcherous oppression allowed to exist after decades of open defiance of the International Community and International Law. it is victory (of sorts) for the murderous Zionists who consider impunity for barbaric genocide a more worthy conclusion than recognition and reconciliation.
The Era coming to a close is the charade of professed impartiality, and so called “justice” for the Israelis. To the Zionists, and those complicit with Zionists, all you have proved to me by your malignant conduct, dishonesty and covert machinations with foreign governments, proves you are unfit to have a Nation that resembles so well the centre of all that is evil and morally repugnant. Your reply is to embrace deeper evil and repugnance.
There is another era that has a finite conclusion, and that era is confined to human lifespan of a single man. It doesn’t matter what your opinion of the man is, the simple fact is, Vlad Pu(tin) has steadied Ru$$ia and transformed it into a powerful and formidable adversary for anyone. But whether you accept it or not, he has done it with restraint and reserve and a perpetually open door for peace negotiations and compromise all along.
Again, whether you accept it or not, Western Military might (and duplicity), has been humiliated in YooKrane. Just yesterday, the first Abrams type tank met its maker. For those with an eye to the future, there are now ominous questions to be asked about what happens when the era of Pu(tin) restraint expires, and the mighty bear which has rediscovered it’s dominance and growl comes under new management.
Even if it’s a “devil” you see in Vlad Pu(tin), (and I myself do not), never has the “better the devil you know” expression been so apt. For the love of god, start talking.
Mark my words. The West will be the worse for it, if it doesn’t recognise the era of opportunity which will come to an end when Vlad exits power. As the German volkssturm warned in the dying months of WW2, enjoy the war, because the peace will be terrible.
I’ve called this depressing, because it is. But I am an optimist, and hope against all odds that good and reason can still prevail, even in the last gasp, but only once its perilous frailty is understood.
James Che @ 6:01 am
“England only has the one uk parliament to control it.
Scotland has two UK parliaments to control Scots”
Aye James, Scots suffer two main levels of oppressive laws, via ‘direct’ and ‘indirect’ rule. Holyrood/SG is merely a spending department of Westminster and promotes the same dominant ‘ideology’ and ‘values’.
True liberation would require both ‘arms’ of colonialism to be removed, along with the peoples ‘colonial mentality’.
@mia
When you are in a hole, stop digging, your’re like a vicky pollard impersonator ?
Your wordy post is all projection and deflection and distraction.
Cry all you want, you are still wrong.
@ Dan says: 23 February, 2024 at 8:20 am
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives step in to save aspects of the plant nearer election time so they can be seen as saviours and garner votes
Works for me. It’s the SNP and ScotGov who thought that the WM move to Net Zero wasn’t going quickly enough, and stated that they would accelerate the fossil fuel phase out in Scotland.
Surprise, surprise, the refinery that will be superfluous first in the UK is the one that gets chosen for closing first. While no primary school kid could have seen that coming, what’s the excuse for a bunch of supposed grown ups, eh?
So if the Tories claim they will ensure Scotland de-fossilises at the same rate as the rest of the UK, that would put Grangemouth back on a level playing field with the other UK refineries. Worth a try.
Plus, the Tories are backtracking on their net zero pledges anyways, as reality bruises them, and their virtue signalling leaves not a mark on reality.
A few of the alert voters must be starting to notice that too.
I predicted the resumption of coal mining in Scotland before the end of the decade, just the other day. Reality is coming to get us!
@ Breeks says: 23 February, 2024 at 8:34 am
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Repent sinners, for the end is nigh.
You really missed your calling, Breeks, next time around make sure you’re an old-school, orthodox Calvinist, thundering and thumping from the pulpit at an empty church.
he has done it with restraint and reserve and a perpetually open door for peace negotiations and compromise all along
All right, I admit defeat. There truly is no counter to weapons-grade delusion of this potency.
You write this within a week of the murder of Poot’s last internal opponent of any major standing.
All I can say is that in your demented ravings, and the open terrorism support posted by others on here, alert Scots can glimpse the calibre of the bottom feeders following in the wake of the Scottish Indy movement.
The SNP did right to cast the bottom feeders out. Any SNP replacement will have no alternative but to do the same.
Is that biblical enough for you Breeks? Cast them out!
John Main now predicting a return to coal…
A few months back coal was bad as he tried to rubbish the stats listing resources and assets in Scotland;s geographic area.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/spoiler-alert/comment-page-1/#comment-2771335
https://wingsoverscotland.com/penny-royalty/comment-page-1/#comment-2775040
https://wingsoverscotland.com/penny-royalty/comment-page-1/#comment-2775057
Hatuey @ 1.20
Stand-out post , amongst a number of excellent comments .
To those leaping on the farce that was/is the * ceasefire vote * to try and claim some moral superiority for the SNP , one question – actually , two questions ……
Where the fuck have they been for the last almost 6 months ? It’s only now that it’s evident Scottish public opinion is sympathetic to the plight of the innocent victims of this * sanctioned * atrocity – and with a GE looming – that the SNP have ( partially ) taken their tongues from the Zionist anus and started to * perform * moral indignation .
If they’re so outraged at the – entirely predictable – contemptuous treatment they’ve received in That Place , WTF are doing still being there ?
They can leave anytime the like . Of course , the point is , they don’t like . They’re content to put-up with any amount of shit as long as they can keep their places at the cordon bleu trough – ALL expenses paid .
@ Ruby
Good morning Ruby. Yes to your two posts 7.41 and7.46.
I haven’t yet managed beyond 15 minutes of The Labour Files. I think it should be widely viewed. The journalism is to be praised.Glad to see Geri getting into it.
I do like contributions that suggest positive change for Scotland that might one day be done. I hope something comes from what George Ferguson has said.
anon
Ignored says:
23 February, 2024 at 8:50 am
@mia
When you are in a hole, stop digging, your’re like a vicky pollard impersonator ?
Your wordy post is all projection and deflection and distraction.
Cry all you want, you are still wrong.
Maybe take the blindfold off your avatar. It seems a very strange world you live in. Some would say bizarre.
More from the Open Democracy piece by Adam Ramsay, Scots journalist.
“A party leader asking the speaker of the house to change the rules to help them out of a tough spot would normally be told where to go. But Starmer is alleged to have told Hoyle that choosing his motion was in the interests of MPs’ safety. That those who didn’t want to unequivocally call for an end to the mass-murder in Gaza might face violent reprisals from peace activists.
Hoyle agreed to let Labour hijack the SNP’s motion – despite the fact that Labour has more than six times as many annual debate days and hasn’t used any to focus on Gaza – which he later expressed regret over. But there are two pieces of context for his decision.
The first is the horrendous murder of two MPs in the past eight years: Labour’s Jo Cox by a far-right extremist and Conservative David Amess by an Islamic fundamentalist. It’s hard to see white-power racists being driven to violence by MPs’ failing to clearly call for a ceasefire. Muslim fundamentalists, perhaps.
But more fundamentally, Starmer was tapping into a broader sense, created by the government, that protests against the war in Gaza are dangerous, anti-British, and violent.
The Labour leader was suggesting that even allowing a motion on a ceasefire to be debated in the Commons would be an unwelcome threat – the kind of thing you bend procedure to avoid.
The French far right has in recent years developed a new term for its opponents: ‘Islamogauchists’, Islamoleftists. This effort to bind the deep Islamophobia of French society into a specific attack on the rising left is exactly what former home secretary Suella Braverman was trying to do when she denounced marches calling for peace in the Middle East as ‘hate marches’.
When Starmer and team more subtly peddled the idea that the SNP’s amendment calling for peace was in fact a risk to MPs’ safety, he was doing the same.
Hoyle allowed his ear and the rules to be bent. Labour’s amendment passed, but not before the Commons descended into chaos, with SNP and Tory MPs walking out in protest. At least 30 are reported to have since signed a letter of no-confidence in the speaker.
As a Scottish person, it was easy for me to watch this farce and conclude once more that I don’t want to be governed by this shitshow. I imagine millions in England felt the same, though without any obvious exit strategy.”
As unsurprising as it is disappointing I see several SNP MPs still haven’t signed the EDM about having no confidence in Speaker Hoyle: including Ian (whaur’s ma kilt ‘an bend’t-knee – there’s a bash oan at the Palace) Blackford.
Seriously. If their own parliamentary leader standing up in the chamber of the Commons and hitting every news channel to say the SNP has no confidence in the Speaker isn’t enough to get them to sign there really is no hope. There’s going native and then there’s this.
My prediction. If this doesn’t change it’ll simply now wilt on the vine as an issue and the SNP will meekly fall back into line., again.
@ Dan says: 23 February, 2024 at 9:08 am
Woohoo, big furry deal, a few more pointless points scored for you.
Yeah, I did suggest you stop being so fecking bone idle and occasionally update your cut-and-paste list. Cos things are changing all the time. Adapting your list to circumstances suggests you might actually know what you’re banging on about.
And now, as part of these changes, I see that we in the west, that is Europe, the EU, the UK, and oor ain wee Brigadoon here, need to re-industrialise. That means we need cheap, home-grown energy, so that we can make affordable steel and manufacture all the things we won’t be getting from the Covid Spreaders for too much longer.
You know the kind of changes I mean, Dan. The Hotties closing off shipping routes to wild cheers of approval from the usual suspects on here. The Orcs, under “mild, reasonable” Pres Put swallowing up eastern Europe and re-colonising Africa so that they can corner world markets in minerals and other commodities, to warm sounds of approval from the usual suspects on here.
It was a smart man who said that when the facts change, he changes his opinions. Obvs that boy would have been run out of Wings BTL on a rail.
Anyhoo, here’s another post of mine for your collection. Please don’t tell me you have them collected in a scrapbook, or pasted on a wall with red string linking them together. I want to be able to sleep at night.
And you want to get a life.
When might we expect the formation of a Gaza bound Scottish Brigade?
Some below the liners here up for it?
There is a long history of Scottish mercenaries fighting for other peoples causes…Sweden, France, Russia to cite a few, and England of course.
Something to mull over at the virtual keypad.
One day Scotland shall be free, but before that there so much other stuff to do.
Free the Isle of Wight!
@Dan 8:20pm
If somebody doesn’t step in to save the Refinery the entire complex will go, the 2 plastic plants, hydrocracker, off spin industries, apprenticeships, the multiplier effect so on. The SNP are remarkably relaxed about this disaster on their doorstep. I signed the Alba petition to save the plant. Otherwise we will be the only Oil producing country in the world not to have a Refinery. If the Tories step in, I am not proud I will take that. I just can’t believe the indolence of the SNP Government on this issue.
Johnny Cope upping the ‘bluster meter’ dial to 11 today.
Obvs he realises his xenophobic pish isn’t working.
@TURABDIN 9.55am
Trolling?
“below the liners” = usual suspects?
John Main,
You’re making a fool of yourself, it’s quite obvious what is happening in Gaza is wrong, and not by a little.
Médecins sans frontières have already witnessed numerous occasions of the targeting of civilians.
That the Western media plays down the atrocities in Palestine is no surprise but the rest of the world have no such compunction.
Although I agree wtih your analysis, down to the point that the SNP did all that to score poinst against Labour, I believe they were right, on principle, to include the clause about “collective punishment” because it is what it is, collective punishment.
If they didn’t include that in their motion, their call for a ceasefire wouldn’t differ much from Labour’s, and would imply Israel is doing nothing wroing here, but only defending itself, and now it’s enough, time to stop, they did enough defending.
But someone has to say it, that it is collective punishment, and it woudl have been a good thing for the Palestinians to have that debated in the Commons, even if the motion didn’s pass. Instead, no such debate was made, and in the eyes of the British Parliament there is no collective punishment of Palestinians.
So good for the SNP for standing up to some principles, for a change.
John Main. A sperm stain on the pillow of humanity.
“And you want to get a life.”
Haha, that’s a classic coming from someone that spends a ridiculous amount of their time posting on here nearly every day.
You also need to be more alert as I have posted all sorts of discussion topics over the years regarding the potential for developing work and industry here in Scotland rather than relying on imports from far flung lands. But you seem more focused on sowing discord and steering discussion away to aspects Scotland can do fuck all about until we return to self-governance with the full powers that would bring.
And fyi I don’t need to save your posts, I just do an advanced google search using a couple of key words to turn up relevant posts.
Anyway, that’s me just back from a run taking a neighbour to an appointment, grabbing a quick cuppa before another couple of hours shift dressing stone to replace some frost damaged and ugly looking areas (small stone chards rather than decent sized stones)) on a property built in the late 1700s that’s still standing straight and strong.
Then off for a shift at mate’s garage as he’s winding that up due to ever increasing pressure created by cost of
livingexisting because governance in this land can’t manage to create a sound economic system with all our diverse resources to hand and which would offer stability rather than boom and bust chaos.Then I’ll nip oot for some shopping on way home and maybe a wee drink this evening for the start of a weekend of motorbike building, fishing and chainsaw action.
Can I ask what sort of life you feel I need to get? I’m guessing maybe it’s one that doesn’t point out yer pish and hypocrisy so much?
@ George Ferguson
Did you see my post the other day re Jet fuel from Grangemouth.
“And just for information to compare. Edinburgh airport in summer gets through approximately 1 million litres of Jet A1 fuel a day for aircraft refueling. Edinburgh airport, like Glasgow and Newcastle currently get that fuel from Grangemouth.”
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-future-in-numbers/#comment-2824880
Fair bit of GDP right there.
We Jocks relly are a self-centred lot, complaining about Ineos shutting Grangemouth.
Don’t we realise the company has far-more important things to worry about. All the money they save in shutting Grangemouth will be put to good use, building that new stadium for Manchester United.
Ruby
“According to this the Bible states that the Jews are God’s chosen people.”
That was only for the bloodline to be pure for the birth of Christ.
Mary was the immaculate conception.
Jews rejected Christ & are still waiting.
Christs teaching ended the “chosen people” & opened up to everyone & they could dispense with the rituals of what was clean & unclean.
Someone needs to tell Judaism they missed the event or their God lied lol
& Christian fundamentals need telt He never gave a place for His return.
He didn’t say “see yas in I*rael. Bye for now!”
They’re advertising jobs on heart radio for a career in Nuclear.
So according to PS the cost so far for the investigation is £1.3m. It’s funny how many posters in the National defending the sturgeon claiming an MI5 plot against the poor wee innocent soul.
TURABDIN
The 18 year old boy from Iraq!
Go away you silly man!
Geri,
The Chinese are building a huge number of nuclear power stations including a thorium molten salt reactor that will recycle the waste as fuel back into the TMSR.
Thorium reactors were considered back in the 50s to be much safer than uranium but had the drawback of not having the same benefit to the military that uranium has.
There are pros and cons to everything but one thing is certain, globally, like it or not, nuclear power is here to stay.
Parliament proceedings seem governed by arcane rules like something from dungeons and dragons – did someone fail to “scrag the wibble” before the grand salamander “bagged the snitch”?
– was this really because the english cannot decide who rules them – jews or muslims?
There is one gang “the friends of israel” operating across all parties, up against MPs who have a lot of “diversity” in their constituencies, plus a handful of the naive who think “killing is bad, mkay”
Keir Starmer was installed by the jewish lobby, who take great pride in their removal of Corbyn, whose crime was to be even-handed (and he wouldn’t go to israel/auschwitz, pay homage to his overlords), but he has to sweep all those seats in the midland-stan if he wants to win.
“grant us a ceasefire, oh israel, but not yet” – is what you want, with the necessary sophistry.
Make up your mind.
At least in Scotland it is much clearer – we have almost no jews up here (3000, England has 300K), but we do have freemasons, a jewish proxy (“judaism for gentiles”, also “gay sex clubs for straight men”) – but the asian business community will soon be filling that vacuum, becoming a hostile elite with overarching political and economic power, which hates the natives.
– I, for one, welcome our new Pakistani New Scot asian landlords/overlords – at least they will drive out the anglo elite, and get us a discount on the VAT (just don’t ask them where the fire extinguishers are).
Palestinians, being occupied by a foreign power, have every right under international law to do anything they see as reasonable, as legitimate resistance – and Houthi attacks on ships bound for israel (hidden under layers of intermediaries) falls, laughingly, ironically, under the R2P – responsibility to protect – doctrine that Blair helped to invent on behalf of the US … priceless.
– ultimately, no one in the world gives a fucking shit what the UK, the english, think about anything. Scots should take heed.
The other day the press misrepresented, again, what one of mad vlad’s generals said – they said he threatened us all with nuclear annihilation; he didn’t, he specifically threatened London, even to dropping the whole arsenal on it, and in an earlier proclamation he specifically mentioned that “Scotland would be free”.
– omelettes and eggs. A price worth paying. It would be worth it to -forever- end that pathetic clown show we witnessed – its “Hogwarts for Paedophiles” and needs buried, for eternity.
“Nothing that has been reported braces you for the true scale of the horror in G 4z4. We’re simply not getting accurate information about the levels of destruction and brutality,” said Sarah Champion MP, chair of the International Development Committee, upon returning from a visit to Al-Arish in the Sinai desert, Egypt.”
middle east monitor
@Dan 10:39pm
Thanks Dan I will pass that idea on. I don’t know the downstream petrochemical process at Grangemouth but I know somebody that does!
Sam 9:30
“I haven’t yet managed beyond 15 minutes of The Labour Files. I think it should be widely viewed. The journalism is to be praised.Glad to see Geri getting into it.”
You should watch it when you have time.
The plot to eject Corbyn under false allegations.
The plot by his department to get him out of office.
Fake news on Labour meetings.
The lobbyists who totally control the Labour party & all it’s conferences/agenda.
The deselection or hounding out of government Corbyn supporters.
Instigating “protests” as if they were just spur of the moment but were orchestrated.
How the BBC is also totally captured.
& Some Corbyn supporting councillors etc being stalked & warned they know what time they do the school run.. clearly a threat to families.
All DAF goings on. Obviously they go into far more detail & with documented proof on the leaked files.
Starmer & the friends of I*rael stabbed him in the back & their antics are a clear threat & interference to elected MPs who are basically reduced to walking on eggshells in case they upset these unelected roasters..
It’s not just the UK. This happens in the EU too. Everyones parliament reduced to toeing the line.
The yoons have tried their best to introduce the antisemitism shite here too in Holyrood but it hasn’t worked for now. Yvonne Ridley wrote an article about it last year.
The SNP motion was ludicrous: a Gaza ceasefire is not in the powers of the UK House of Commons. Raising this a SECOND time in their opposition days proves that they are just trying to cause trouble for Labour, rather than save lives in Gaza. If they want to save lives in Gaza, ask Hamas to release the remaining hostages.
I think that Hoyle’s admission of the Labour amendment was reasonable. It was against usual practice, but not without precedent. What scuppered his plan (which would have included a vote on the SNP motion) was that the Conservatives, at the last moment, withdrew their motion and refused to vote, which meant the Labour amendment and the amended motion passed without a vote. It is suggested that the Conservatives withdrew their motion as they knew it was going to fail.
So, don’t blame Hoyle; blame the Conservative’s running away from a certain defeat.