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Out on the road again

Posted on December 01, 2021 by

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    623 to “Out on the road again”

    1. Ruby says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      11 December, 2021 at 10:30 pm
      Craig Murray is against Alba`s rejection of self id.

      Would like to see him explain why he thinks giving any man free access to female safe spaces is okay.

      Reply

      He’ll certainly have a hard job convincing me that
      self id is OK. I have doubts about any type of id that states a man can be a woman.

    2. Fireproofjim says:

      Stoker,
      You are right about dodgy statistics about workers at the Faslane Naval Base.
      It has aye been. In the early 2000s when the Labour Party were in power they used to go on about 5,000 Scots jobs at the base.
      I visited the base while tendering for work and was escorted around a hunter killer nuclear submarine. I commented on the tight space they lived in and was told “yes, and there’s about a hundred of us aboard when we are at sea.” Now at that time they had six hunter killers and four Tridents which are much bigger. Each Submarine had one crew aboard, one crew in training and one crew on leave. Say three hundred men for each sub. Very roughly that’s about three to four thousand sea-going Royal Navy personnel plus all the logistics, planning and maintenance Navy people. Soon mounts up to five thousand but there are very few actual Scots jobs at the base. I believe the Navy once said about 5O0 civilian contractors at maximum.
      When Faslane is our Naval Base we will easily employ that many and probably more. We don’t need the Nuclear submarines, however it is only reasonable and safe to allow a fair run down time and to charge a fair rent.

    3. Hatuey says:

      You’re walking down a street minding your own business and a blocked stank accuses you of being just like Sturgeon. What do you do?

      Tell the stank to shut the fuck up in the name of George Orwell? Jump on it several times in the name of Mahatma Gandhi?

      No. You keep walking. Who gives a fuck what blocked stanks think…

      My bets are on for tomorrow’s football. If Hearts win 3-1 and Celtic win 4-2, I’ll be able to afford a sex change and a fake degree in sociology. That could be a whole new chapter.

      I’m supposed to get my booster tomorrow but I have the flu so I don’t know if they’ll let me do it.

    4. Hatuey says:

      Possibly the best news any of us have had in years; http://www.youtu.be/m2vI4XczqZ8

    5. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Ruby 10.37 pm

      “Is everyone apart from yourself & Hautey a foul mouthed, no mark
      with limited brain capacity?”

      Oh no, absolutely not. Quite a few are of course, but not all of them achieve all three. Given your description of me as a “narcissitic, cocksure, dictatorial cunt” you can hardly deny the foul mouthed part of course. Being a no-mark with the reasoning capacity of sea cucumber is of course a matter of opinion, but last time I checked that was allowed too, a bit like you describing me as narcissitic, cocksure and dictatorial.

      For the record, I think we can readily dispense with the last of three labels: when have I ever said people weren’t allowed to demonstrate their ignorance? Neither I or anyone else I can recall has done so, or tried to close down the debate, but we’ve seen again and again low voltage flat earthers infesting this site whingeing about folk like me and Hatuey having the temerity to mock their woo-woo beliefs. I think if you’re looking for dictators, you’re looking in the wrong direction Ruby.

      As noted with Craig Murray’s support for TRA above, even some of those we might otherwise hold in high regard may disagree with us on certain issues. It’s barely a year ago for example since I was on pretty reasonable terms with some posters in here who I now know to be science denying cranks. The fact that their views are aligned with mine on e.g. the absurdity of self ID, doesn’t mean I’m prepared to give them a free pass for being an anti-vaxx moon howler or a regressive, blood and soil nativist.

      We don’t all have to believe the same on all issues, but we’re also allowed to disagree and point and laugh at what we take to be the absurdities of the ideological positions of others, particularly when they are arguing for positions which are – however much they deny it – on the scientific and political fringe.

      As Hatuey notes above you and your ilk are just ideological blocked stanks, but blocked stanks need to be flushed in the end, even if you’d rather ignore their outpourings.

    6. @Ruby,

      according to She/Her and the transcult,

      `Reality is transphobic`

    7. PacMan says:

      Stoker says: 11 December, 2021 at 8:23 pm

      Of course, the pandemic has been used for political ends masquerading as health ones.

      If you are right that the Omnicron turns out to harmless and doesn’t cause the level of deaths predicated by Nicola Sturgeon and the health experts, then there is an opportunity to turn this into a political rather than health matter where it is managed like everything else like the economy, social care etc rather than one solely taking president and allows Nicola Sturgeon to return to her ‘day job’ which is to run Scotland and the pretence that she is doing to deliver a second referendum.

      Saying that, this could well be be happening anyway as there will naturally be momentum for this because of the amount of mishandling that has occurred already and with the potential of Omnicron turning out to be harmless. There is only so many times that you can frighten people.

    8. Ian Brotherhood says:

      #ResignSturgeon is trending on Twitter, currently 2nd place, and has been in the top 5 for days.

      Why are folk so angry with her?

      Are they just fed up seeing her face?

    9. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      12 December, 2021 at 10:46 am
      #ResignSturgeon is trending on Twitter, currently 2nd place, and has been in the top 5 for days.

      Why are folk so angry with her?

      Are they just fed up seeing her face?

      Reply

      Self-id?
      Schools Sex Survey?
      Alex Salmond scandal?
      Too many selfies?
      Being narcissitic, cocksure & dictatorial
      No progress on IndyRef2?
      Ditching Oil

      What are people saying on Twitter?

      New insult: Being like Sturgeon.
      It turns out that cuts deep!

    10. Ruby says:

      Whatever it is people are angry with Sturgeon about she won’t listen.

      Complaints not valid.

      Their blocked stanks need flushing.

    11. Hatuey says:

      “Why are folk so angry with her?”

      Maybe the microchips they put in the vaccines have malfunctioned.

    12. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      It’s interesting to read stuff like this, effectively, “from the horse’s mouth”.

      https://archive.md/Ryezk

    13. rob says:

      Ruby says:
      12 December, 2021 at 11:26 am
      Ian Brotherhood says:
      12 December, 2021 at 10:46 am
      #ResignSturgeon is trending on Twitter, currently 2nd place, and has been in the top 5 for days.

      Why are folk so angry with her?

      Are they just fed up seeing her face?

      Reply

      Self-id?
      Schools Sex Survey?
      Alex Salmond scandal?
      Too many selfies?
      Being narcissitic, cocksure & dictatorial
      No progress on IndyRef2?
      Ditching Oil

      Not to forget ….

      The thought police they wanted
      The missing £600000
      Jigsaw ID and Scotland with only political prisoner in Europe
      Martin Keating
      Mike Hirst
      Telling the people to vote SNP 1&2 thus allowing Unionists to be elected
      Control over the Judiciary

      I am sure there are many more instances to add.

    14. Chas says:

      Good to see the ‘Compliments of the Season’ messages back and forth between the respective posters on here. It really gives me a sense of well being and a nice warm glow!

      For the life of me I will never understand why a poster, with a particular opinion on some subject, will ever think that he/she/it/thing will change the views of another poster who thinks diametrically opposite.

      Folk are different-always have been-always will be and ……..
      just as well!

    15. wee monkey says:

      Quote:-
      Ian Brotherhood says:
      12 December, 2021 at 10:46 am
      “#ResignSturgeon is trending on Twitter, currently 2nd place, and has been in the top 5 for days.

      Why are folk so angry with her?

      Are they just fed up seeing her face?”

      I think you’ll find it’s not her face that has screwed independence for the next decade or so…..

    16. Ruby says:

      Weird that ResignSturgeon has started trending all of a sudden.

      Was it the ‘no parties’ announcement that did it?

      Was it just too much that people watched Sturgeon swanning around at party after party from people from all over the world last month and then were told ‘no parties’?

      Will Sturgeon stand from doing the Covid announcements and be replaced by Humza Yousaf?

    17. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 12.03 pm

      Or full moon perhaps…? 🙂

    18. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘This Is Scary, Very Scary’ on yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com

    19. Ruby says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      12 December, 2021 at 1:05 pm
      ‘This Is Scary, Very Scary’ on yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com

      Reply

      Oh Ron you are naughty!

      I’m off to spend my lottery winnings!

    20. Hatuey says:

      The moon is a massive 5G antenna, Andy. Didn’t you watch the latest Neil Oliver clip?

      Those fucking globalists…

      Someone asked me the other day if I was comfortable being on the same side of the lunar divide as Neil Oliver.

      How do you respond to a question like that?

    21. Republicofscotland says:

      “TBH, my anger is focussed on those in Scotland who are conniving at leaving our own oil and gas in the ground, in the full knowledge that we will still have to buy alternative oil and gas from uncertain and pricey foreign sources for many years to come.”

      John Main @7.16pm.

      John.

      I recall Thatcher the Milk Snatcher doing the same, as she had the police beats the miners as their children starved, coal was imported from Poland.

      Many Scots have benefited from the oil and gas industry work wise, though overall the lions share of the profits from North sea oil and gas went straight to the coffers of England’s chancellor, in the 70’s and early 80’s Scotland’s biggest city Glasgow still had many slum tenements which families lived in, the profits from North sea oil and gas was needed back then.

      Still many Scottish jobs will go if we just shutdown oil and gas production right now, I’m reminded of Scotland’s coal and steel industries and how they went when I think of North sea oil and gas being phased out, and of the image of Longannets huge chimney being blown up when Sturgeon pressed the button to bring it down recently.

      I certainly don’t see North sea oil and gas production stopping anytime soon, and with it being a reserved matter to Westminster, it will be quite a while before there’s any movement against the sector in earnest I’m sure that will please the auld die-hard unionist Sir Ian Wood.

    22. Republicofscotland says:

      BMW want to charge owners of vehicles for heated seats or a heated steering wheel etc, via subscription, the vehicle will come with the hardware and software when you buy it but if you want it activated it you’ll need to pay via subscription fee, and I don’t even think its a one-off fee.

      As with some Tesla cars when you sell the vehicle the subscription services that you were paying for are turned off and the new owner will need to pay a subscription fee to turn them back on.

      BMW and other high end car makers will make more money this way than just having their vehicles roll off the production line fully equipped and just have the first customer pay for the extras.

      What next I wonder will you need to pay a subscription fee to turn the engine on or the lights on, where does it end.

      https://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-subscription-model-for-features-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

    23. Republicofscotland says:

      The multi-millionaire knight of the realm and leader of the Labour party Sir Keir Starmer has refused to call for the resignation of Boris Johnson even though he believes Johnson has broken the Ministerial Code. I’m pretty sure Starmer is a Tory in disguise.

      Ian (Scotland won’t stand for it) Blackford has said that the SNP at Westminster will use all its levers available to it to assure that Johnson is held accountable for his actions.

      More comedy gold from Blackford, he and his keystone cops SNP MP’s have no power at Westminster, they never did, and never will, they are there to make up the numbers and give the masses a feeling that democracy is in action.

    24. Dan says:

      Went to a pub, 14 quid for twa pints of lager and a fresh orange juice!
      Fuck me sideways, now I huvnae been oot for yonks and wondering if COP26 whacked a huge carbon tax on the importation of orange juice…
      TBH not being allowed intae pubs due to not having a valid “vaccine” passport will at least save me from bankruptcy.

    25. sarah says:

      @ Dan – £14 for 2 lagers and an orange juice? Jeez, how does anyone afford to go to the pub regularly? Better start brewing some mashed neeps or something!

    26. Dan says:

      @ sarah

      Scotland aspiring to be like Norway… with the drinks prices…
      We jist require oor wages to catch up with the reindeer munchers!

    27. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ron Maclean 1.05 pm

      Interestingly a comment appeared BTL on that article from Rev Stu (I can’t vouch for whether it was the “real” Rev Stu of course) which attacked Iain’s article and the rise of such blood and soil narratives. It went on to say it was removing the Yours For Scotland link on WoS.

      The comment has now disappeared, whether deleted by Iain Lawson or by the author I don’t know, but it happened pretty quickly as it had gone when I posted a comment applauding Stu for his response.

    28. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 2.54 pm

      No just our wages, but also our sense of national self identification.

      I seem to recall 99.95% of Norwegians voted for their independence in 1905.

      I wonder how many non native Scots would have to vote No to overturn 99.95% of native born Scots voting Yes…..?

    29. Dan says:

      @ Andy Ellis

      Well other than posting on t’internet, what are you doing to help improve Scotland’s lot and increase the desire of those that live here to support the concept of self-determination?
      Are you going to stand for election? Did you put input into policy development as a member of Alba?

      There’s been a hunner posts arguing aboot fuckin covid and only one extremely brief mention from Tannadice Boy in response to a post I put up the other night asking for input on how we might proceed in the current circumstances.

    30. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      After nor being allowed to use their logo on the voting slips at the May election, I see that the Electoral Commission authorised a logo for Alba in August.

      http://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Registrations/PP12700

    31. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      nor = not

    32. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Dan 3:19pm
      It was a good post Dan. To paraphrase Stu “Sturgeon has poisoned the Independence well”. We could use a few filters to clean up the well. Joining another political party doesn’t cut it for me. I thought long and hard about Alba membership but didn’t in the end. There has been no positive case made for Independence since 2014. Sturgeon going might be the catalyst to start a grassroots debate. But will a Sturgeonless SNP operate as a proper political party?. And then there is their policy landscape. Not a great outlook. It all feels far away to me. Open to suggestions.

    33. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      12 December, 2021 at 2:26 pm
      Went to a pub, 14 quid for twa pints of lager and a fresh orange juice!

      Reply
      Worth checking price-lists before ordering. I got caught out and ended up paying £3.50 for a sausage roll. Just a ordinary sausage roll to take away in a paper bag. It wasn’t even all that good & they didn’t have any tomato sauce. 🙁

      PS Lidl do a pack of 4 Premium Sausage Rolls for £1.50

      Choose from Maple Bacon & Cheddar or Hog Roast.

      Fun game to try and spot the most ridiculously priced item.

      Watch out for single cupcakes from these fancy bakeries.

      I won the lottery yesterday! Five whole £s which would be just enough to get a single cupcake from the local patisserie!

    34. Ebok says:

      Dan
      ‘There’s been a hunner posts arguing aboot fuckin covid and only one extremely brief mention from Tannadice Boy in response to a post I put up the other night asking for input on how we might proceed in the current circumstances’

      I made comments earlier this year which included the paraphrased quote from Clinton ‘it’s the system, stupid’ referring to party politics, and said I would have political parties BANNED, and not just for local elections.

      The party system in politics is in place for a reason: to maintain the status quo.

      I don’t necessarily go along with your thoughts, but I’m fully behind the sentiment.
      Party loyalty is now the expected norm: everyone in the party must give support, no matter what the subject is or if the party is right or wrong – Fabiani being an outstanding example. Sturgeon getting full backing from the party after that performance says it all.
      The entire system is one bad joke.

      Electoral voting systems are just as bad. For every type of election, it’s a different bad joke
      There is something far wrong with the UK system that could give one party (always unionist Cons or Lab) a massive parliamentary majority with a second placed 30% of the popular vote. Even winning the popular vote is normally less than 40%.

      Or the Scottish elections which resulted in a HR coalition where weirdo greens, who couldn’t win a single seat on popular vote, get the casting vote on all policies.
      And whatever we think of SNP, it is wrong, wrong, wrong, for more than a million votes to be shoved into a bin because the rules say too many voters agree on candidate ‘A’, and then candidate ‘B’, with a fraction of those votes, becomes elected, even though hardly anyone wanted that candidate.

      Local election rules are even more wacky: I guarantee the vast majority of the electorate have no idea of the process in candidates winning a council seat. For simplicity, I can tell you that anyone getting 15% of the vote is likely be elected.

      Even PR or federal systems are flawed, usually resulting in trade-offs based on party ideology rather than what is in the best interests of the electorate.

      Final observation on voting: how can it be called democracy when there isn’t an option to vote for ‘none of the above’?

    35. Dan says:

      @ Tannadice Boy

      I’m just surprised all those that recognise that the process of holding another Indyref has serious issues. And those folk that consider another plebiscitary democratic event as the way forward aren’t that bothered about discussing and promoting the idea that we might want to ensure we have as many pro-indy Councillors elected as possible so that a coalition of unionist parties aren’t in control of Local Authorities for the next 5 years, as they may create spanners in the works of any democratic process that they determine infringes on reserved matters.
      Control of Councils is often by a fine margin of a couple of Councillors between unionist and pro-indy majorities.
      By analysing past voting stats and local knowledge in every Ward there could be opportunities to make gains.
      But fuck it, jist keep arguing about covid because that will return Scotland to self-governing status…

    36. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 3.19 pm

      What an odd outlook. So is nobody allowed to voice opinions unless they intend to stand for office? Or is it OK as long as they have some certification for participation in policy development, or delivering “X” leaflets, or raising £”X” for the cause?

      I’ve no real desire to stand for political office, and nothing I’ve seen of how our representatives are treated inclines me to change my mind. I haven’t put in policy suggestions to Alba as it happens, not because I’m not interested, but because at present I have family, work and other commitments to keep me pretty fully occupied, and I’m still not sure where Alba will go.

      Doubtless there’s something to be said for just posting on t’internet too. It may have it’s limitations, but perhaps it’s better than just playing video games, or golf or any other pursuit people who don’t care about politics mights devote their energies to.

      I’ve never really bought in to the: ” Ah, but what are you doing to advance [insert hobby horse of choice]….” arguments, sorry.

    37. Dan says:

      @ Ebok

      Cheers, I specifically recall your post from a few weeks back on the complexities of voting systems and where we are, and the difficulties with how we progress.
      It was post such as you made that stimulated the thought processes which I’d mulled over and assisted in what I posted the other evening.
      That’s why folk should really step up and continue to make contributions while we still have the platform, rather than taking a step back and letting the pish content become the dominant strain btl.

    38. Ruby says:

      I appreciate these posts from posters who know a thing or two about politics. I’m glad Dan got replies to his post.

      It’s been here on Wings that I’ve learned everything I know about politics. Thank you very much for that.

      The most wacky election in my opinion is any UK wide election where England decides.

      Has any other political party in the UK been as cult like as the New SNP?

    39. John Main says:

      @Hatuey 1:39 am

      So is it the regular flu you have, or the Chinese flu? Or maybes even the exciting new improved Moronic Tendency they have rushed out in time for Christmas?

      I have been going easy on your posts cos I thought you had the COVID. But if it’s just the bog-standard flu, we can return to business as usual.

    40. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis not standing for office!
      Great! What about Craig Murray?

      Is there any chance he could be standing in Central Edinburgh?

      Would I be left having to vote for ‘Bonnie Prince Bob’ again?

      It looks as if Craig like Sturgeon is putting ‘self-id’ before independence.

    41. Andy Ellis says:

      Before the coward Iain Lawson deletes Rev Stu’s latest comment on his blog I will copy it here for the delectation of the moon howlers so we can all rejoice in their salty tears of rage that Stu thinks they are punks:

      “I didn’t contest the factual information because I don’t give a bee’s bawbag how many people are moving between Scotland and England. Your blood-and-soil voting franchise (you say five years, others say 20) is wrong because (a) it’s *morally* wrong, and (b) it would lose you far more votes from people repelled by the idea than it would ever gain you, because in a heartbeat you would confirm the slur the Yes movement has spent the last decade fighting: that the desire for independence is motivated by anti-Englishness.

      It wouldn’t matter if it was true or not (although for most of the people advocating this policy it worryingly seems to be), the narrative would be overwhelming and utterly, completely, lethally poisonous to the campaign. I mind that it’s an offensive, borderline-racist idea. But if anything, I mind even more that it’s such an utterly fucking STUPID one.

      So go on, delete this comment too. I even did a sweary to give you a cop-out excuse. But it won’t change the facts any.”

      Preach brother! 🙂

    42. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 5.39 pm

      I’d vote for Joanna Cherry in Edinburgh Central in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t vote for Craig Murray because he supports misogynistic TRA, irrespective of his other views. It will be a red line for lots of other Alba supporters I suspect.

      I very much doubt Alba would stand him for a constituency seat.

    43. Ruby says:

      Can someone please help this ‘foul mouthed, no mark
      with limited brain capacity’ please?

      Why is Ellis getting his knickers in such a twist over some bloke on the internet making a suggestion about a different type of franchise?

      WTF should anybody be bother whether Stu Campbell thinks we’re punks or not?

      Stu Campbell has fucked off and left us up shit creek! There is absolutely no moderation on this site.

      Has he seen the amount of abuse I’ve had to put up with from his number one fan?

      How would he like to be called foul mouthed? 🙂

      Does Stuart Campbell have a middle name?

    44. Republicofscotland says:

      “Before the coward Iain Lawson”

      Fuck you Ellis, Iain Lawson cares about Scotland and its people you can disagree with him but like the Rev he’s not afraid to put his neck on the line.

    45. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 7.08 pm

      Says the no mark posting on Stu Campbell’s website to platform her views, while taking a swipe at him for abandoning her.

      Making fun of your contributions here isn’t abuse Ruby, it’s a public service. Calling someone a cunt is abuse.

    46. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 7.19 pm

      But he is afraid to let Rev Stu comment on his site….?

      Riiiiighhht.

      Another knuckle dragging nativist resorts to abuse in lieu of actual argument. Is it just that you can’t form a coherent response, or you just like abusing folk from behind your anonymous profile?

    47. Republicofscotland says:

      Ellis, says the guy that’s called Ian Lawson a coward, you couldn’t lace his boots son.

      “NATIVIST”

      “relating to or supporting the policy of protecting the interests of native-born or established inhabitants against those of immigrants.”

      Sounds awfully like what’s going on South of the border don’t you think.

      As for making an argument, for my case if its good enough for other countries to exclude some folk on constitutional voting its good enough for Scotland, or are we special in some way.

    48. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 7.39 pm

      Re-posted from Lawson’s blog in response to the same whinge from you there:

      “You’re either wilfully misrepresenting the situation, or simply don’t grasp it. Which is it?

      Other countries DO give folk the vote in self determination referendums. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

      You – like Iain Lawson – are comparing what countries which are already independent and have clearly established citizenship criteria do, with what happens in situations where a people which is not yet independent is trying to establish their independence via a referendum vote.

      However much you and others attempt to ignore or deny it, the overwhelming majority of such cases have used non-exclusive, territorial franchises and NOT excluded sections of the “demos” on the the basis they haven’t lived here long enough.

      The answer to your question therefore is: No, we’re not special, but we WOULD be special if we tried to move the goalposts from the 2014 precedent and exclude a category of people whose support we were happy to have then.”

    49. Ruby says:

      This is completely mental!

    50. Republicofscotland says:

      Two can play at that game Ellis.

      “Other countries DO give folk the vote in self determination referendums. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.”

      And other don’t are they blood and soil nationalists?

      And what has being independent or not, got to do with the voting franchise when the plebiscite will be run by our own parliament, as it is in other countries, the answer is nothing.

      ” No, we’re not special, but we WOULD be special if we tried to move the goalposts from the 2014 precedent and exclude a category of people whose support we were happy to have then.”

      We’d be stupid have a rerun of the 2014 indyref, like for like would undoubtably see yes lose, and many real indy supporters bloggers and commentors know this. To be quite honest I don’t even think the Alba party wants a 2014 rerun and you’re supposed to be a founding member yet you’re pushing a rerun.

      Like I told you over on Wings Ellis if you’re a real indy supporter I’m a monkeys uncle.

    51. Andy Ellis says:

      Unsurprisingly Iain Lawson is now busily deleting my replies to comments, as well as those of Stu Campbell on his blog, including one of my comments he’s liked according to an email notification.

      What a loser.

      Coward is as coward does I guess. I can see why the moon howlers in here are all over him.

    52. Ruby says:

      This is a debate that’s taking part on another site but for some strange reason Andy Ellis wants the debate to be spread out over this site.

      The problem is nobody here knows what’s going on or what the debate is all about because it’s taking place on another site. No idea why Andy Ellis is getting himself into such a tizzy over a discussion about a franchise? However I am going to leave it there as it’s never a good sign when someone totally loses there sense of humour.

    53. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Ruby 8.11 pm

      You don’t see the relevance when Iain Lawson is busily deleting comments from Stu Campbell on his blog, as well as from me, about an issue that’s been discussed here?

      Odd, but not surprising given what I’ve seen of your output. You seem more concerned about using someone else’s platform to air your woo-woo while accusing him of abandoning you, which is really very peculiar.

      If you don’t understand why some of us feel strongly about this, I can’t help you.

    54. PacMan says:

      The thing is when you think about it, the biggest cause of spread is through schools rather than from hospitality venues.

      Given it is impossible to get children to social distance inside and outside to school, the virus is spread around and is brought to their homes where the parents are affects and if these parents can’t work from home, they bring it in the work place.

      As Dan has mentioned and I can verify, it is expensive going out for a few drinks. The only people who can do it is either young people and adults with no children of school age. People with weans simply can’t go out on a regular basis.

      The hospitality sector was an easy target for the Scottish government to be seen that they were doing something against the virus. It’s certainly going to back fire on Sturgeon as people start going back to work tomorrow and receiving emails that the Christmas dinner is cancelled as well as phone calls from friends and family doing the same thing.

    55. Republicofscotland says:

      “Unsurprisingly Iain Lawson is now busily deleting my replies to comments,”

      Ellis.

      I’m sure he’s not the first blogger to do so.

    56. Andy Ellis says:

      @ RoS 8.46 pm

      No indeed. As I observed earlier, the light to some is an unwelcome friend.

      Strange that he lacks the courage of his convictions or the desire (or perhaps wit?) to engage after first asking for more information, liking some of my tweets, then deleting the ones he obviously couldn’t answer.

      That’s no great surprise of course, none of the nativists have answered the questions here over many months, because they can’t contradict the facts, just deflect and misrepresent them, as both you and Lawson were found out doing over on his blog.

      Perhaps having his misrepresentations exposed explains all the redacting?

    57. Dorothy Devine says:

      Sadly Mr Ellis your comment still exists on Yours for Scotland.

      Having commandeered this site as the Windbag of Wings were you looking to destroy Yours for Scotland too?

      Ian has responded to Stu – he may not like the response but that’s his prerogative and he certainly needs no-one else to fight his corner.

    58. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dorothy Devine (8.59) –

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    59. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Dotty 8.59 pm

      Unlike Iain Lawson, Rev Stu hasn’t seen fit to stop me or others commenting here though. I’m quite aware Stu doesn’t need me to fight his corner.

      It does make me laugh tho’ the number of moon howlers who are happy to use his platform to fluff their woo-woo, which Stu clearly detests, while simultaneously criticising him for abandoning them or for being wrong.

      I wouldn’t take your word for anything, particularly not that I’ve somehow commandeered this site. Lawson is just another fringe nativists trying to inflate his fringe position and give it some false respectability. If his site can’t accommodate different opinions, its clearly never going to be anything like WoS.

      But then Lawson is no Stu Campbell is he?

    60. Tannadice Boy says:

      Aren’t I glad my phone had to be charged after furious sports betting on a great sporting day. Independence supporters knocking lumps out of one another. Sturgeon is a great tactician but the weakest Strategist and the worse FM this devolved Parliament has had. She has destroyed the SNP, only sycophantic supporters hoping to earn a shilling by remaining are left. The duality, ambiguity and division of Scotland has been made worse. Her legacy.

    61. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dorothy Devine –

      ‘Andy Ellis’ has such a limited vocabulary, I’m starting to wonder if he’s just some kind of bot?!

      If Rev ever adds ‘woo-woo’, ‘nativist’, ‘moon’ and/or ‘howler’ to the filter? *POOF!* He’ll be gone!

      😉

    62. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      It’s getting very tempting just to close comments here.

    63. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Rev Stu 10:29pm
      Your contribution to free speech and your patience and tolerance knows no bounds. I salute you. And you have endured so much yourself. I don’t know what the answers are but we have been holding onto a dream. I feel further away now than I have ever done.

    64. PacMan says:

      Simple advice from the Rev.

      Stop feeding the troll or else lose your place for discussion.

    65. Ruby says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      12 December, 2021 at 10:29 pm
      It’s getting very tempting just to close comments here.

      Reply

      Oh no! I hope it has nothing to do with my complaint about no moderation! That was a joke.

      I don’t care if there’s no moderation. I would prefer it if there was absolutely none. I have no problem with being called foul mouthed especially when it’s true. Moonhowler is fine too!

      The bit about you abandoning us was a joke but also a bit of emotional blackmail. Thought you might feel sorry for us and decide to come back.

      Any chance? I get the feeling there could be some really good stories about to surface.

    66. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I’m not bothered where residents of Scotland were born. I work with people from every continent daily.
      However, residents of Scotland should be expected to show a modicum of commitment to Scotland.
      I don’t care whether these residents were born in Scotland, are former refugees or asylum-seekers, immigrants from former British colonies, “captured’ citizens from the EU or ‘economic migrants’ from wherever.
      If they’ve been resident in Scotland for five years, they should be entitled to a vote on Scotland’s constitutional future.
      If they haven’t resided here for five years, then they haven’t – yet – demonstrated an allegiance to the nation of Scotland and its future.
      Anyone commenting here who tries to allege that this opinion is “nativist” will only demonstrate their own dogma and agenda.

    67. Ruby says:

      Is this franchise one to be used when Scotland is independent?

      How much say would we have in a franchise for an IndyRef?

      Was the last one not debated & decided in Westminster?

    68. New Caledonia had a referendum on independence from France,

      ` voters will need to be registered on the general electoral roll, and also meet one of the secondary criteria`

      At least one parent born in New Caledonia and have their material interests in the territory;

      At least 20 years of continuous residence in New Caledonia by 31 December 2014;

      Born before 1 January 1989 and have had their residence in New Caledonia between 1988 and 1998;

    69. Ruby says:

      ‘I believe people should be treated as they wish to be treated. I support the principle of self-ID. I detest intolerance and demonisation of trans people.’ Craig Murray.

      Could get tricky if people are not in agreement as to how they wish to be treated.
      You would have to decide in favour of one group or the other.

      Just because you are not in favour of self-id does not mean you
      support intolerance & demonisation of trans people.

      Absurdity’ of police logging rapists as women

      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/absurdity-police-logging-rapists-women-s6576v825

    70. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Ruby 12:37pm
      Are you working out of Bute House?. I suspected your on the SNP payroll. This is a thread devoted to Craig. And you criticised his views. As it happens I don’t agree with his views on the trans issue. Nevertheless we are bound to Independence. But I shouldn’t comment as I didn’t write to him in jail. I have excused myself. More evidence of the SNP hand at work. It will change, perhaps not in my lifetime. Anyway you called out my name, do you you want to know what nursery the Grand bairns go to?. Intimidation doesn’t work. A lesson the SNP have yet to learn.

    71. Hatuey says:

      Tannadice, my man, I see you’re having problems with a blocked stank too. Best ignored.

      It looks like a lot of arguing has been going on in my absence.

      Anyway, Hearts let me down badly today. They definitely could have won, if only blah, blah, blah. Note that I didn’t moan about blah, blah, blah, before the game. I thought I had every chance.

      But now that I’ve lost, I think it was down to that blah, blah, blah stuff and I’m retrospectively declaring that I was robbed and the whole thing was rigged.

      All those who had problems with the franchise before 2014, please step forward.

      My advice to Stu is to keep the place open but fix it so that only I can comment.

      Politics makes plonkers of us all. That’s my honest opinion. We are all sucked into this black hole with lofty hopes of making things better, and we end up making everything worse.

      There’s a million better things to do. My latest book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=teach+your+dog+quantum+physics&adgrpid=51878820903&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2NaNBhDvARIsAEw55hgUDj6sJaROG_IbcgaOQdD195g9NtwcY-u72R60P4dTAwFuLJNb1mQaAhgEEALw_wcB&hvadid=259120335567&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=1007336&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6725773696411617012&hvtargid=kwd-314836453576&hydadcr=11493_1841778&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pd_sl_3zqxlioyvz_e

    72. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Hatuey 2:22am
      A great day of sport. You have obviously have never heard of Quark Strangeness and Charm. I went to a Hawkwind concert decades ago. Some naked lady prancing about on the stage stole the headlines. The Quantum Physics was forgotten about.Ah well the truth is always obscured. It was ever thus. Speak soon off to bed.

    73. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Ah, Tannadice Boy. I too was at that concert. Bra’ (or bra-less) stuff.
      False memory regarding the evening it took place in my comment at the link.

      https://retrodundee.blogspot.com/2009/07/when-dundee-banned-hawkwind-1972.html

    74. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      12 December, 2021 at 8:24 pm
      @ Ruby 8.11 pm

      You don’t see the relevance when Iain Lawson is busily deleting comments from Stu Campbell on his blog, as well as from me, about an issue that’s been discussed here?

      Odd, but not surprising given what I’ve seen of your output. You seem more concerned about using someone else’s platform to air your woo-woo while accusing him of abandoning you, which is really very peculiar.

      If you don’t understand why some of us feel strongly about this, I can’t help you.

      Reply

      The only thing I know about Iain Lawson is that he has a blog and that is only because you told me.

      I understand that blog owners can delete posts if they wish.
      Stuart Campbell is luckier than most posters who have posts deleted because he has his own blog where he can make comments until the cows come home without anybody being able to delete them. Possibly they would even be wider read than they would be on Iain Lawson’s blog. I’m just guessing as I said I know next to nothing about Iain Lawson or what is going on his blog.

      I understand you are even luckier as you have not just one but two blogs.
      “You seem more concerned about using someone else’s platform to air your woo-woo”

      I don’t understand why you feel strongly about this because you haven’t told me. You’ve been too busy calling me names.

      Feel free to carry on calling me whatever name you want although I’m not sure if ‘moonhowler’ is accurate if that is the term you use to describe people who agree with Ian Lawson and not just a term of endearment.

    75. Ruby says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      13 December, 2021 at 1:22 am
      @Ruby 12:37pm
      Are you working out of Bute House?. I suspected your on the SNP payroll. This is a thread devoted to Craig. And you criticised his views. As it happens I don’t agree with his views on the trans issue. Nevertheless we are bound to Independence. But I shouldn’t comment as I didn’t write to him in jail. I have excused myself. More evidence of the SNP hand at work. It will change, perhaps not in my lifetime. Anyway you called out my name, do you you want to know what nursery the Grand bairns go to?. Intimidation doesn’t work. A lesson the SNP have yet to learn.

      Reply
      Mornin’ Tannadice Boy how are you today?

      Got a headache?

    76. Ruby says:

      Hatuey says:

      There’s a million better things to do. My latest book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=teach+your+dog+quantum+physics&adgrpid=51878820903&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2NaNBhDvARIsAEw55hgUDj6sJaROG_IbcgaOQdD195g9NtwcY-u72R60P4dTAwFuLJNb1mQaAhgEEALw_wcB&hvadid=259120335567&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=1007336&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6725773696411617012&hvtargid=kwd-314836453576&hydadcr=11493_1841778&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pd_sl_3zqxlioyvz_e

      Reply

      FFS man have you never heard of tiny url?
      Look how much better that is!

      https://tinyurl.com/yckhn9nz

      Better watch out for Tannadice Boy he might take exception to you talking about football & dugs on a thread devoted to Craig Murray.

      If you are looking for people who have a problem with the 2014 IndyRef franchise perhaps you should ask your pal Andy for a link to the Iain Lawson blog.

      Time to get on your superman cape and get over there and sort out all these ‘moonhowlers’.

      What a shame!
      Just when you though you had sorted out all the ‘crackpots’ up pop all these ‘moonhowlers’

      Sorry ‘Superman’ no time to for you to teach your dog quantum physics perhaps better just stick to fetch.

      My problem with the 2014 IndyRef franchise was that it was debated and decided at Westminster. Not sure how that problem could be solved until we are independent do you?

    77. Ruby says:

      I haven’t actually criticised Craig Murrays views on self-id yet!

      I’m just wondering how he is going to answer all the usual questions or whether he even needs to.

    78. John Main says:

      Assuming the figures from the National Records of Scotland are accurately quoted, then the number of indigenous Scots in Scotland goes down every year and has done since at least 2001.

      FACT.

      From there, things get more conjectural, but if we surmise that incomers are more likely to support the status quo, then support for Indy is being watered down yearly.

      That’s a state of affairs that the Indy movement is either going to have to deal with, or take up a new hobby.

      I personally don’t agree there is any ‘moral’ dimension to discussion of the franchise. But that’s just me. Many here seem to be mired in a ‘touchy feely’ vision of Scots Indy which no doubt helps them to feel good behind their keyboards. But meantime, in the real world, Scotland’s decline continues.

      As to whether a limitation of the franchise would have an adverse effect, that seems to me to be no more than an unsupported allegation.

      So here’s my suggestion. Commission a poll; ask people from a wide range of backgrounds if franchise limitations would affect how they would vote in any future Indy referendum or plebiscitary election.

      Introduce some FACTS into this rather pointless rammy.

    79. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Please contact your MP and ask him/her to vote against vaccine passports tomorrow.

      Takes 2 minutes.

      https://www.writetothem.com

    80. Andy Ellis says:

      @Rev Stu 10.29 pm

      Fair enough. To be honest it’s very tempting just to give up at this point, which will doubtless please some of those BTL on here no end. You mentioned elsewhere – FB perhaps..? – that you were tempted to withdraw your participation in the Wee Alba Book due to their failure to slap distance themselves from what many of us see as blood and soil nationalism. I share your concern. I thought Alba would be different: perhaps that’s just me being naïve?

      As we saw both here and on Iain Lawton’s blog, many of those supporting the nativist prospectus just can’t help themselves labelling those who disagree with them as not “real” nationalists, Sturgeonite stooges, MI5 operatives, or – Grouse Beater’s new insult of choice – “English”. Good grief.

      I see on Lawson’s blog the old saw about Rev Stu having the audacity to live in (whisper it….!) Bath, which is in England is being trotted out. Folk on our own side using talking points from the yoon playbook 2014. I don’t even know if I can be bothered making an official complaint about Gareth Wardell to Alba: they certainly haven’t distanced themselves from the “indigenous Scots” narrative, so perhaps they agree with him?

      Denise Findlay certainly seems to disagree with the nativists, and I note that David Taylor posted on your FB page that he had it on good authority from Tasmina Sheikh herself that the party did NOT support franchise change. I hope that’s right.

      It seems pointless continuing to try and engage with the dwindling band BTL here. Whether there’s a viable alternative forum remains to be seen. Difficult to see anything substantive happening in the short to medium term anyway.

    81. Ruby says:

      I feel as if I’ve just read Rev Stu’s private mail.

    82. Ruby says:

      What is going to happen?

      1. Will this forum close down with no more comments or polls?

      2. Will Rev Stu return to commenting on Scottish politics?

      Evidence would suggest Rev Stu is champing at the bit to get stuck back in.

    83. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon 6:57am
      I see what you mean about false memories. I always thought the Amazonian woman was called Sonia. Anyhoo speaking of Quantum Physics we seemed to have been living a parallel life. Our birth City voted 57% for Independence. We can walk away with our heads held high. When I visit Dundee and see an Alba stall I will come over for a chat about the Amazonian and fitba.

    84. McDuff says:

      Tannadice Boy 10.29pm
      Quite agree.
      And i understand why the rev is considering shutting down given the dicks that have hijacked this site drowning it in their own banalities.

    85. Stoker says:

      Dan says on 12 December, 2021 at 4:32 pm

      “Control of Councils is often by a fine margin of a couple of Councillors between unionist and pro-indy majorities.
      By analysing past voting stats and local knowledge in every Ward there could be opportunities to make gains.
      But fuck it, jist keep arguing about covid because that will return Scotland to self-governing status…”

      You must be joking! On here? As you’ll be aware i have also suggested we need to start working on the local elections *now* but it got no traction. I’ve also seen it many times before on here. Folk whinging about this, that or the other and asking what can we do about it etc, someone comes up with a half-decent suggestion but it comes to nothing. It’s been going on for as long as i’ve been with Wings, since 2014.

      FFS, you only have to look at the same folk who are repeatedly posting direct links to BUM rags &/or their articles etc, despite all the reasons for not doing so being known. If they can’t adhere to a simple commitment such as that then there’s absolutely no chance you’ll get them to commit to a plan relating to promoting Alba for next May Council elections. Good luck though!

    86. Breeks says:

      OT
      https://www.denisefindlay.org/post/on-becoming-a-non-person

      Posting this as it’s one of “us” standing up to one of “them”.

      But, not withstanding the unfairness and injustice of it all on Gordon Millar, I’m sad to report this level of evasion, sophistry, barely concealed derision and contempt is quite the norm whenever you are the victim of Local Authority incompetence and are stupid enough to think making a complaint will help you see justice.

      It’s not just an SNP thing, it’s a plague throughout the Local Authority / Quango / Statuary Organisations throughout Scotland.

      After years, indeed decades of nursing injuries to my business while trying to secure even a modicum of justice, or even a simple apology, I can only warn you to expect the same contempt and obnoxious dismissive attitude Mr Millar describes.

      We have rogues proliferating throughout our Public Sector, from top to bottom, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, holding them to account.

      And before you mention the “O” word, it has been my experience that Ombudsmen are no different, and cut from the same cloth as the rogues they’re meant to be “ombudsmaning”, and will happily lead you on a fruitless wild goose chase of any length of your choosing.

      We, as a society, are much too tolerant of this disdain for truth and justice. And I’m sorry to say, if it comes as a shock to you when you experience it first hand, then you’ve clearly not been listening to those who’ve gone before.

    87. PacMan says:

      @ Stoker

      Fully agree with your last paragraph. Despite the Rev’s threat last night, the same suspects are on today with their attention seeking antics.

      Another reason that we need Alba to win in the local elections as we need a deadlock with this pandemic.

      I know it sounds too much of a coincidence but genuinely I had only been taking an interest in the pandemic recently but reading the comments of right wing Tory MP’s, they are almost echoing what I had said at the weekend.

      However, they are interested in the common good of the people, they are only interested in cutting the NHS and other supported services to the bone and using the pandemic to further their poisonous ideology.

      The current strategy to deal with the pandemic seems to be having restrictions, cretins like Nicola Sturgeon and that Leitch character on the TV and pumping us full of vaccinnes 3 or 4 times a year with no end in sight. People are just not going to want that to look forward to for the rest of their lives and they are going to look to others who can provide alternatives.

      For me the pandemic and need for restrictions is as much about NHS resources as it is about the virus itself. Is there a way that demand for NHS services can be reduced like instance, dealing with obesity which seems to worsen Covid symptoms?

      The status quo up here suits the SNP and lets be honest, the opposition parties where they can carp from the sidelines and still keep their comfy Holyrood and council salaries. Can Alba break the deadlock and provide a positive alternative?

    88. Breeks says:

      And with regards to Craig Murray’s attitudes towards transgender people and self ID, while I fundamentally disagree with self ID myself, and I don’t know anything about Craig’s thinking on the matter, but if you’re aware of the Julian Assange circumstances and Wikileaks history, then you should also be aware of the Chelsea Manning part in that history, and for that reason alone, (which might be totally irrelevant- I don’t know), but I am more than happy to cut Mr Murray a little slack.

      He is still one of the good guys with the guts and determination to stand up for beliefs we all share and hold dear to us, … and ok, maybe one or two we don’t. But Craig Murray’s obduracy and integrity are things to be respected. He has earned that right.

      Truth be known, if you actually were a Transgender person suffering genuine discrimination, it seems more than likely that Craig Murray will do more to actually further your cause and end that discrimination than a whole army of Trans Taliban nut-jobs with fluffy pink baseball bats. … and in that direction is surely where progress might lie.

    89. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says at 10.22am

      Difficult to see anything substantive happening in the short to medium term anyway.

      Well I guess that would be the case for someone if they lack the imagination, or simply don’t want, to discuss and explore the numerous opportunities that political capital could be gained from during these unprecedented times…

      You are rarely stuck for something to say, and as you’re a proponent of utlising an election as a plebiscitary event for Scots to democratically express our desire to return to self-governing status, rather than another IndyRef, your disinterest in discussing and tactically strengthening that particular route by working to increase the number of pro-indy Councillors across the 32 Local Authority areas is duly noted.
      One can only ponder why you seem to prefer continuing to antagonise folk whilst simultaneously having no interest in trying to reduce or remove the potential blocking power unionists currently hold that could stifle the very route you want us to take…

    90. Ruby says:

      Breeks says:
      13 December, 2021 at 1:23 pm
      And with regards to Craig Murray’s attitudes towards transgender people and self ID, while I fundamentally disagree with self ID myself,

      Reply

      Breeks:
      I would love to see a debate about self-id taking place here.
      Would you be prepared to say why you disagree with self-id?

    91. Ruby says:

      Does disagreeing with self-id make you transphobic?

      What are the types of discrimination trans people suffer?

      What exactly is a trans person and is referring to someone as a trans person transphobic?

      Can anyone be a trans person?

      What is a woman?

      I wouldn’t like to be in the shoes of someone answering questions in favour of self-id.

    92. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ruby.

      A prerequisite for committing r@p€ is a MALE SEXual organ, to be inserted into one (or more) of three orifices.

      The story below shows just how surreal things have become in Scotland.

      https://archive.md/qQqcx

    93. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 1.36 pm

      You’ve used this kind of argument before Dan, and it wasn’t anymore convincing then. It’s not lack of imagination that makes me unwilling to discuss and explore opportunities, I simply don’t think those available will lead to any substantive progress in the short to medium term. You may want to discuss that, an it’s your prerogative, but you don’t get to dictate what issues other people find engaging or useful.

      I’m all for increasing the number of pro indy councillors, but I don’t see it leading to progress towards a plebiscitary election in the short to medium term. You might disagree, which again is fair enough. You’ve taken the higher ground, slightly “de haut en bas” tone before about people not doing what you regard as the coal face effort to promote the cause, but not everyone wants to or can take an active role in activism, or party politics or campaigning. There are many paths to the same goal. You don’t get to dictate which are acceptable or sneer at those who don’t meet your level or chosen method of commitment.

      I *might* choose to become more involved in my local branch, and I might not. The jury is still out. I simply don’t see electing local councillors as the “be all and end all”: it’s certainly not going to result in early plebiscitary elections.

      As for antagonising people, perhaps I do. I’m hardly alone in that either here or elsewhere. As you’ve just demonstrated, you’re not above snide little digs about “one can only ponder why…” etc. I suppose we should just be thankful you’re not calling me “English Ellis” which seems to be the new required nativist insult.

      I have every interest in removing power from unionists Dan, I just disagree with the methods and suggestions being put forward, particularly politically regressive and (at least in my view) immoral routes like franchise restrictions…..not that we’re getting a referendum any time soon.

      I’m heartened that some of the news from the Alba camp as evidenced in the Wings Over Facebook page suggests the party leadership rejects the nativist prospectus and agreed with those of us who have explained the reasons we think it’s wrong.

      As for this place, it’s probably run it’s course now. I’m sure all the “Scotland as colony” and franchise restriction officionados will be delighted.

    94. Republicofscotland says:

      “And with regards to Craig Murray’s attitudes towards transgender people and self ID, while I fundamentally disagree with self ID myself,”

      Breeks @1.23pm.

      Yip, I find myself agreeing with the above, and although Craig Murray’s hearts in the right place I disagree with him on this one as you do. Men should not be able to self ID as women when the notion takes them and then enter women and girls safe spaces, one could say that if you agree with that, then you disagree that women and girls deserve privacy in those spaces.

      Craig will probably be coming from the angle of the rights of the men, even then I still can’t agree with it.

    95. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Therefore, if a MALE SEXual organ is presented towards a female (or male) orifice, surely the owner of that MALE SEXual organ is presenting as a MALE?

      How can Police Scotland take the opposite view that the person presented as a FEMALE, to commit the crime?

    96. Stoker says:

      @ PacMan on 13 December, 2021 at 1:21 pm

      I’m 100% convinced one of them in particular is driven to have WOS comments shut down if not the full site. No need to mention who it is as most folk will know exactly who it is. Thing is though, the rule “DO NOT ENGAGE WITH TROLLS” is there for a very good reason. Its biggest giveaway, for me, is that it never used to post as often until its other account got binned and it was never as articulate in *any* of its previous posts as it is now. Read into that what you will. And there’s very few folk it’s not had a go at, either directly or indirectly.
      __________

      That’s Tory leaflet crap started coming through the doors here in the Borders from Rachael Hamilton. Filled with all the usual guff about how she’s holding government to account and how this, that and the other is needed for whatever. Harps on about how she’s been meeting & greeting various farmers and how she’s making sure questions are being asked about payments for farmers at Holyrood. Strangely doesn’t mention a word about Brexit though – funny that isn’t it?

      She also has the usual photo-shoots included with various locals and charities etc. In several of the pictures she’s breaking Covid rules with John Lamont not wearing masks and standing about 2ft apart. She’s with Morrison’s staff in Hawick and not one wearing a mask. She’s with some other Tory and none of the 2 of them wearing a mask. She’s standing, in the middle, shoulder to shoulder, side-by-side with 2 volunteers outside the Community Larder initiative ‘A Heart For Duns’ and none of the three are wearing a mask. She’s standing among children and other maskless adults at the ‘Great British Beach Clean’ in Eyemouth.

      The *only* picture she’s wearing a mask is the one, including John Lamont, taken outside a Fire Station in the Borders which is being used as a Covid-19 testing centre. The 6 others in the picture are all wearing masks too. This photo is billed as her & Lamont “thanking key workers”. The Tories in the Borders have form for using the emergency services in their photo-shoots. They’ve got a nerve considering the devastation their London masters have caused with their approach to this whole pandemic. These pictures are truly sickening.

      Lamont & Hamilton’s wee annual Christmas greetings and calendar will soon be dropping through our doors here in the Borders. Aren’t we lucky? Amazing what you can achieve when you are funded by wealthy constituents who think nothing of throwing the odd few grand or more in your direction to do with as you please. It’s the *only* thing these scumbags have got going for them, money. We have all the arguments in our favour but they have all the money to deliver the propaganda.

      I remember Rachael Hamilton’s last lot of tripe she sent out. Said she would push for a whole series of roadworks here in the Borders. She knew fine well a large programme of roadworks was already underway. This was so at a later date it would appear as though she was responsible for getting it done. Well, rachael, do you want to take credit for it or not? Because less than 4 months after completion of roads near me there’s ruddy big potholes starting to form. Did you get a refund clause written into the contracts? LOL!

    97. Republicofscotland says:

      SNP MP Kirsty Oswald used her PMQ question recently not to point out that Scotland would be better off outside this rancid union, or to further point out the continuing damage that’s being done to Scotland due to Brexit.

      No Oswald used her question to demand a boycott of the Chinese Winter Olympics, these SNP MP clowns are now so embedded at Westminster that Scottish independence has become an after thought.

    98. Ruby says:

      My immediate reaction when I saw Craig Murray entering into the ‘self-id’ debate was:

      “Does the man not have enough on his plate at the moment?”

    99. Ruby says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      13 December, 2021 at 2:33 pm
      Therefore, if a MALE SEXual organ is presented towards a female (or male) orifice, surely the owner of that MALE SEXual organ is presenting as a MALE?

      Reply

      Well you would think so but apparently not if it’s a ‘lady dick”

      Did you get taught about ‘lady dicks’ in sex ed class?

      Would you be able to describe a ‘lady dick’ to a police officer for example?

      If I were asked my only reference would be to the film ‘Tipping the Velvet’

    100. Ruby says:

      Stoker says:
      13 December, 2021 at 2:35 pm
      @ PacMan on 13 December, 2021 at 1:21 pm

      I’m 100% convinced one of them in particular is driven to have WOS comments shut down if not the full site.

      Reply

      Did you pick up any hints that ‘The Alba Party’ were also earmarked for similar treatment?

    101. Republicofscotland says:

      A excellent article by George Kerevan on why the SNP must get a move on with independence.

      https://archive.md/3pHBx

    102. Ruby says:

      Hi Republicofscotland

      It seems archive.is doesn’t work any more for Herald & National

      You need to use
      https://12ft.io/

      to get he full article.
      Big thanks to BDTT for link.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fpolitics%2F19779747.scotland-must-seize-moment-go-independence%2F

    103. Republicofscotland says:

      Oh right Ruby, it still works for me but I’ll use the other one for the benefit of everyone else.

    104. Republicofscotland says:

      “FEARS the pandemic may last into 2025 have emerged raising concerns whether a second independence referendum will take place by 2024.”

      “In a sign of how long Whitehall officials fear the crisis will continue, reports today say the Conservative government is laying the groundwork to extend its Covid-19 test and trace system into April 2025,”

      I think we all knew this was coming down the pipeline, other countries have held plebiscite elections during this pandemic, Sturgeon, as the Rev said, and most of us know as well, won’t hold an indyref, and certainly not without Westminster’s consent.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F19781335.scottish-independence-vote-timing-concerns-fears-pandemic-may-last-2025%2F

    105. Confused says:

      That Kerevan article is a piece of shit; pity, I have had a lot of respect for him in the past. Maybe it’s when folks get a cheque from the National, they sublty take the “rough” edges off their opinions.

      – now is the time for the SNP to strike!

      um, because … they really want to, but just haven’t “noticed” the opportunities?

      – or maybe they just need another mandate, for the mandate cupboard, another sticker for the panini mandate album? Maybe mandates are like booster jabs – no matter how many you have – YOU ALWAYS NEED “JUST ONE MORE”.

      Maybe it’s not happened because they like things as they are.

      There is also a lot of irrelevant geopolitical nonsense from the Big NATO book of fairy tales – bottom line – America is the most corrupt, violent and debased culture on earth, #1 for hypocrisy; Putin just wants to sell you cheap gas and China wants to trade. WHO IS THE BAD GUY AGAIN?

      Then he gets things plain wrong – America doesn’t give a shit what London thinks about anything; they are just “people who take orders” (- and RENT nukes from them, to feel important). Ordinary Americans hate the “brits” and the entire world despise the Anglos, for pretty good historical reasons. You know, a clever Scottish politician could leverage American support -against- the English, but for that to happen, we would need an “in” like HA HA – a US President who was “half Scottish”. As if that would … WHAT

      BUT TRUMP called a vagina, sorry a front-hole a “pussy” and because he said you “grab em by the pussy” he is a bad man, who is “sine die ultra vires ipso facto verboten haram excommunicated amalek …” but let’s stay in the UK for its pooling and sharing, with the likes of Prince Andy, a man who never “said it” but he fucking-well done it, eh! Teenage pussy too, not too hairy.

      Andy probably got taken on walks with Uncle Jimmmy Savile up at Balmoral. Happy Days! Made him the man he is.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUgoBb8m1eE

    106. James says:

      Andy “I’m done with this site” just keeps on a-comin…

    107. Dan says:

      Andy Ellis says: at 2:30 pm

      I have every interest in removing power from unionists…

      If you really did then you might give more credence to the wider discussions relating to how we can mutually achieve that ultimate aim.
      It is far from constructive being so dismissive and hostile towards folk that offer their input btl just because you think you know better. Some have considerable firsthand experience and understanding of how campaigning away from the internet in amongst the public works.
      If you had actually spent some time organising public campaigning to promote Scotland returning to self-governing status you would be aware of the many hurdles that can be put in place by Unionist run Councils.
      Sometimes you do come across as utterly clueless due to not being receptive to, or able to comprehend many important campaigning and short / long term tactical positioning aspects.

    108. PacMan says:

      Republicofscotland says: 13 December, 2021 at 3:51 pm

      “FEARS the pandemic may last into 2025 have emerged raising concerns whether a second independence referendum will take place by 2024.”

      “In a sign of how long Whitehall officials fear the crisis will continue, reports today say the Conservative government is laying the groundwork to extend its Covid-19 test and trace system into April 2025,”

      The pandemic response in the UK won’t be over until it doesn’t overstretch and swamp the NHS.

      Given that the NHS is overstretched annually every flu season, never mind with the extra demand of a pandemic, even if Covid gets back to a level where a semblance of normality in our daily lives are gained, I have to be pessimistic despite the cautious optimism I had a few days ago, but it is going to be here for years to come.

      That of course is music to the ears of Sturgeon and co who can go to every election and with the promise of a referendum once the pandemic is under control.

    109. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 6.42 pm

      Ach, what’s the point? As James’ reaction above proves, the light to some is an unwelcome friend. I doubt this is the place to respond in the detail your post deserves, but few are listening to each other now. As the experience on Lawson’s blog last night shows, folk just want forums that reinforce their own views: his pieces and the BTL contributions just read like Wee Ginger Dugs, but from a different angle.

      Wings Over on FB seems at least to have folk who agree with my stance. Other than checking in to see what happens now and then (sorry about that James*) I’ll probably just concentrate on that. Seems obvious neither Stu nor most of the few remaining contributors here really see it as performing the same function it used to.

      As for Alba and being involved, and what impact it will make, they still have to prove themselves as far as I’m concerned. It’s encouraging that Tasmina and Kenny McAskill seem to be on board with Stu’s take, but it obviously contains enough who are fully paid up nativists to give me the boak.

      No point trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear anymore, best just to leave folk to it.

      (*Not sorry)

    110. Hatuey says:

      Tbh, Andy, you’re probably over-qualified for this gig.

      We are all just waiting for Sturgeon to go. When she does, the wheels of progress will turn again.

      Five years devoted to division, treachery, and utter madness, instead of independence.

      It all could have been so different.

    111. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 10.40 pm

      Perhaps so. As you say, until Sturgeon is either removed or finishes her term (*shudders*) there is little practical to be done. I agree it could all have been so different. Scottish voters have however shown themselves continually adept since failing to ensure the initial devolution proposal in 1979 succeeded at conspiring to vote in ways that lead to bad outcomes.

      I am perhaps less sanguine now than you appear to be that the wheel will turn and lead to progress. You can lead a horse to water…..

    112. Ebok says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      11 December, 2021 at 10:14 pm

      Andy, I was about to ask about your comment from above when hostilities erupted the other day.
      Part of that comment was
      “it’s pretty reminiscent of how Trump supporters in the USA and Brexiters’ and UKIP’ers here in the UK reacted to those who called them out for their regressive beliefs”

      This blanket, scatter-gun response to outcomes you don’t like is not only wrong, Andy, it distorts your own arguments about the EU and Scottish referendum outcomes.
      You contend that folks voting ‘Yes’ in 2014 lost because not enough of the electorate had been convinced by the Independence argument.
      Yet those who voted remain in 2016 lost because all Brexiters’ had regressive beliefs and NOT because the electorate were unconvinced by the remain argument?

      And the American electorate voted for Trump in 2016 (and also in vast numbers in 2020) not because the alternative was appalling, but because everyone who opted for Trump had regressive beliefs?
      If you just think about this for a moment Andy: you, @RoS, and @Breeks, from your comments, seem like the three distant points of an equilateral triangle, yet all three of you support Scottish independence and all three of you support continued membership of the EU. On that basis, even though you could not be farther apart on many issues, by your pigeon-holing arguments you are all identical?

      I voted leave EU because, among other considerations, as a lifelong supporter of Scottish independence, I could not square that with the Independence in Europe argument (‘The People of Scotland’ comment a while back gives more detail). Others will have their own, and widely differing reasons for thinking or voting in a certain way.

      But you must know that Brexit didn’t come about because of Farage or Migrants or ERG, or nutters: it was because borderline voters feared the intransigence of EU structures, the direction of travel, and the perceived ‘deficit of democracy’ within the EU. The result of the vote became a foregone conclusion on the day of Camerons Chamberlain moment when he went to Europe to plead for a list of watered-down concessions and was told to F-off. After that, ‘remainers’ had no hope.

      The other ‘referendum’ you mention was the Trump thing. I say referendum in a loose sense, as that is what American elections really are. Again, you tend to use lots of abusive and derogatory terms when describing those who voted for Trump.
      Do you not get it that vast numbers of the electorate are not represented by ANY candidate or ANY party? That’s what @ Dan was getting at recently. That’s why we had the excruciating dilemma in May overs SNP1.
      Voting for Trump, Corbyn, Farage, Ukip, or many others you will know of in Europe, is NOT ordinary people voting FOR anything, it is us mortals screaming that they are no different to the alternatives on offer. SNP will be in that category too, unless Alba becomes established.

      In this country, few hold extreme views. We generally look for magnanimity, justice, and veracity. Every election is decided by those closest to the centre and on that basis your arguments, your passion, would be best placed in that direction.

    113. Hatuey says:

      I’m not that optimistic, Andy. Right now I’d probably get more satisfaction out of seeing certain people held to account for the things they have done.

      Babylon needs to fall before it can be liberated.

      That’s why I struggle to take all the debates about the franchise, claim of right, post-indy planning, etc., seriously.

      Until we get the monkey off our back, nothing else matters.

    114. Grouse Beater says:

      From the comments contributor who has consistently downgraded the cause of liberty and belittled those who fight for it, the man unwilling to leave the stage after giving his ‘final’ shabby bow, comes the inevitable advocacy of defeatism:

      “Until Sturgeon is either removed or finishes her term there is little practical to be done. I agree it could all have been so different.” English Ellis

      For those who know what a revolution means and how to win it:

      “The motivation for independence is uncomplicated: to install people power able to construct a new society devoid of exploitation, for the happiness and benefit of those who feel themselves to be Scottish. To know you are a Scot, you need to think like a Scot.” GB

    115. Hatuey says:

      The fact is, Grouse, nobody is going anywhere and nothing changes as long as Sturgeon & The Sellouts remain on stage. Stoically virtuous speeches won’t change that, fun as they are.

      More than just remove them, though, I think we need to make examples of them. I can’t stomach the idea of forging on with Alba or anyone until we establish that there are lines that can’t be crossed — we would just be waiting for the next deranged pig to shaft us all over again.

      Holy purity could be guaranteed if we had a party that was committed to one thing alone, had one policy, and one purpose; achieving independence. I was disappointed to see Alba take the form of a regular political party in that regard, with policies on everything.

      Independence is the end for me. I don’t really give a fuck what happens after that, and I am too tired to even try and get my head around the crap that passes as politics these days.

    116. robertknight says:

      Hautey

      Whilst I agree with the bulk of your post, I take a different view re…

      “Holy purity could be guaranteed if we had a party that was committed to one thing alone, had one policy, and one purpose; achieving independence. I was disappointed to see Alba take the form of a regular political party in that regard, with policies on everything.”

      You can’t expect people to vote on a blank prospectus or on the basis of “yes I know you have questions about pensions, defence, currency and health care, but we’ll deal with that after Indy”.

      They persuaded enough idiots in England and Wales to vote for Brexit on the basis of that type of campaign, but I doubt, (as was the case in Scotland with Brexit), a majority here would be open to that approach. We’re not so easily persuaded by a bumbling buffoon going on about “pwoth’puh’wing mightily” and a spiv in an Arthur Daley-style covet coat as others elsewhere appear to be.

      We just need a viable alternative to the Wokist/Devolutionist SNP.

    117. Republicofscotland says:

      So another 1007 drug related deaths have been recorded by Police Scotland, slightly down on last year but still way too high. Johnson told Sturgeon and his Scottish branch manager Douglas Ross after their poverty safari in Glasgow’s East End that they can’t open drug consumption rooms in Scotland.

      Minister for Drug Policy Angela Constance, is at a loss in which direction to go in now, and has forked out for a be kind to a drug abuser string of adverts and radio spots. This of course will have no effect whatsoever on reducing the amount of deaths from drug abuse in Scotland, drug consumption rooms would’ve helped as those who inject them, could’ve been monitored and treated if they overdosed, no such help is available to Scots who inject in stairwells or spare grounds or derelict buildings.

      Again the spineless and gutless Sturgeon has failed Scots addicted to drugs, she’s so craven and uncaring about her fellow Scots that she wouldn’t dare impinge upon or god forbid break a reserved matter to Westminster to save the lives of Scots.

    118. Jack Murphy says:

      TODAY. Craig Murray has put this up on his Blog:
      ———–Nicola Sturgeon’s Motivation————

      A random paragraph:
      …”The Union appears to be in the gravest of danger. But do not worry, Nicola is there to save the Union, diverting the Independence movement into a choice selection of utterly blind alleys, labeled “COVID freeze”, “Gender Reform”, “Economic Recovery” and “S30 Memorandum”. Nicola will go down in history alongside the Duke of Cumberland as one of the greatest servants of British Unionism…”

      As a former SNP voter I now reluctantly agree with Mr. Murray’s article.

      Craig Murrays article:
      https://tinyurl.com/2p9dh784

    119. Hatuey says:

      Robert, I’m very reluctant to get into superfluous debates about these things, they make you feel like a gibbering anorak, but this represents a logical error rather than a political one;

      “You can’t expect people to vote on a blank prospectus or on the basis of “yes I know you have questions about pensions, defence, currency and health care, but we’ll deal with that after Indy”.

      The truth is you can’t expect otherwise; it’s what we are doing now and it’s more or less exactly what happened in 2011. “Scotland’s Future: Your Guide to an Independent Scotland” in which the constitutional framework of an independent Scotland and SNP policy after independence was set out, wasn’t created or launched until 2013.

      To my mind, it would make more sense for Alba and the SNP to focus solely on post-independence politics and issues — so that a vote for either of them is an unequivocal vote for independence and nothing more as long as we remain in the Union. If they did that, every election would be a referendum.

      Of course, if Scotland had won independence in 2014, the first thing you’d need to do is create a constitution and have new elections since everything would be obsolete.

    120. robertknight says:

      Apologies Hautey

      I misinterpreted your point.

      I’ll have no choice but to violently agree with your last.

    121. James Che. says:

      Here is some fascinating research I have been doing today.

      A must for those holding an interest in the treaty of the union and acts of Parliament .

      Hansard. Mill anksystem.com
      Hansard 1803-1960s-1964 – -22 July 1964 1964
      Common sitting—orders of the day.
      STATUE LAW REVISION (SCOTLAND) Bill (Lords)
      Deb 22nd July 1994, Vol 699 cc625–39
      Order for second read,
      Motion made, and Question proposed.
      That the bill be now read second time 10.11 p.m.

      Please enjoy reading the following proposal for integration of Scottish laws into English laws by the back door method of indexing making, [ Old Scottish Acts/ laws obsolete, Pre—treaty of the union.

      Which are supposed to be a must keep for the treaty to remain valid.

    122. James Che. says:

      Please read correction as follows.

      Hansard. Millbanksystem.com

    123. Benhope says:

      John Main at 7 16.

      Absolutely correct. We have to follow the science and not the wish-full green thinkers.



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