One loud noise
In Alan Moore’s legendary graphic novel “V For Vendetta”, the central character tells co-protagonist Evey: “Silence is a fragile thing. One loud noise, and it’s gone”.
Yesterday we ran a guest post from the Scrap Trident Coalition calling for an end to the Johann Lamont and the Scottish branch of the Labour Party to end its silence on the subject of nuclear weapons.
But though Lamont remains “on holiday” and unavailable for comment on a range of issues (or even completely excluded from discussing them at all), her party has ended her silence for her, with a succession of loud noises nobody could possibly miss.
These lines come from an article written this week for Labour List by the party’s shadow Armed Forces Minister, Kevan Jones:
That is why Labour is committed to maintaining a continuous at sea deterrent.”
(In case anyone still wasn’t picking up the none-too-subtle message, the piece was clunkily but unambiguously entitled “The Trident Alternatives Review hasn’t changed our minds: it is right for the UK to maintain a continuous at sea deterrence”.)
That seems, well, mind-bogglingly unequivocal, though it still wasn’t enough to stop some of the more seriously delusional activists in the party from insisting that “No manifesto is yet written for the next UK elections. I’ll be campaigning for a UK Labour commitment to disarm”.
Labour’s position is so comprehensively set in stone, however, that it doesn’t want to risk even the microscopically small chance of such a thing happening. This morning’s Scotland on Sunday reports that:
Naturally we wanted to verify Dr Lewis’s claim about Labour’s position for ourselves, so we had a little dig around and found that he was indeed telling the truth. The parliamentary monitoring website TheyWorkForYou.com carries a transcript of a House Of Commons debate from last month:
(Our emphasis.) Lewis was right: speaking on behalf of Labour in his official shadow-minister capacity, Jones called just a month ago for the renewal of Trident to be passed by the UK parliament BEFORE the next general election. And with all three major parties now in favour, it’s hard to see what could prevent it from happening.
The electorate, who oppose the renewal of Trident but lack any electable UK party to vote for to express that desire, will be presented with a fait accompli. Even if we were to indulge the comical fantasy that there was any prospect of Labour policy changing, the renewal of Trident will have been passed into law before the 2015 election manifestos are even written.
(And we all know what happens once the contracts are signed.)
Since the events of Falkirk, even the loyal Unionist media in Scotland has been forced to the conclusion that Johann Lamont is a powerless figurehead. We look forward to UK Labour MPs filling in more of the gaps in the Scottish regional office’s prospectus for her as time goes on. Meanwhile, opponents of Trident have only one viable option to make their voices heard.
Even if this was the only benefit of voting yes, I would still sprint to tick the box.
Murz Lamont cannot be shtumm through choice, this has got to be very damaging if not the end of her not so lustrous career as team leader of UK Labour Scotland branch.
Well that must remove all doubt regarding Labours stance. Will J. Lammont still set up a committee to have a debate? Or will she just “hum and haw” about this as usual. Either way it matters very little. There is only one way to prevent a large chunk of your taxes being spent on this Westminster vanity project at a time when we can least afford it, and it comes with the added bonus that we can get the WMDs to hell out of Scotland as well.
Will Johann be able to stay on holiday for fourteen months to avoid answering any questions on this? If the media want to ask her any questions that is.
Anyone claiming they’ll change Labour’s mind on Trident is either stupid or dishonest. In the case of this particular Labour activist, I would suggest it is the latter. Labour has been pro-nukes for decades. The idea that Scotland has any kind of influence over UK nuclear policy is evidently wrong, due to the simple fact that it is based 30 miles from our biggest city. If that’s what Duncan’s idea of influence is, it’s pretty bizarre.
Removing Trident from Scotland may or may not result in it being “moved a few miles down the road” rather than being disarmed completely. That’s up to the UK government to decide, as it is now. But at least it’ll be one more country in the world where nukes are not welcome, and it’ll be the most concrete opportunity for disarmament to happen in the lifetime of the UK’s nuclear history.
Nuclear weapons will exist as long as the US, Russia and China decide to keep them. The UK is utterly irrelevant, so the idea Trident can be used as a bargaining chip for multilateral disarmament is laughable. At least this way, we can get them out of Scotland and start using that money for good instead of evil.
Labour will waffle and lie all the way as they have always done. If its not silence, its doublespeak.
The leader of the campaign, Tory New Forest MP Dr Julian Lewis, said that there is now no reason to delay a decision on replacing Trident.
Ok, so they all get together and decide they want to keep and upgrade weapons of mass destruction. They have a few gin slings and perhaps the odd Pimms, sign the papers and clap each other on the back for a job well done.
Scotland then votes YES to independence and throws the bloody things out at the first opportunity.
I’d say that’s reason enough to delay a signing process. Or am I missing something? As far as I know they don’t yet have an alternative home for the existing deterrent.
@Macart;
Is it foolish to suggest that the UK government may coincidentally find a war to wage or a need for Trident around September 2014?
Is there any way we can get a Daily Sunday Herald?
MacWhirter blows the Labour position on Trident out of the water in today’s edition.
It reads as if no UK party wants to blink first on the nuclear issue. They fear that anyone who advocates disarmament will be crucified by the English press.
Why, then, would they want to bring forward a decision which does not need to be taken until after the next UK GE? Perhaps they all really want to cut the cost of maintaining a nuclear deterrent (makes perfect sense, after all).
If so, then a possible scenario would be to blame Scotland, following a YES vote, for pushing them into a corner where disarmament is the only viable option. This, of course, requires Scots to vote YES. The real worry is that we will vote No, leaving the nuclear baby with the UK parties. Hence the need, from their point of view, to do everything possible to encourage the YES campaign.
All speculation …
…calling for an end to the Johann Lamont and the Scottish branch of the Labour Party to end its silence on the subject of nuclear weapons.
Ah ken, you’ve NO IDEA WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT! 😉
@Atypical_Scot
So the Muckle Flugga nuclear weapons programme has been discovered? I knew there was something fishy going on. 🙂
Seriously though with troops already deployed in ‘the war on terror’, they’d have to dream up an argument with a super power. The UK military footprint is in decline, troop redundancies, flat tops mothballed and toothless before they’ve even been built, base closures etc. Hell, even the north Korea ploy fell flat on its face. Naw, I think they’ll continue along the bluff and threat route. They’ve got a decision to make; keep the deterrent and their precious seats at big tables, but rebuild elsewhere or chuck it altogether spend the dosh on the people and the economy, but lose the precious seats.
Its a pickle.
British ‘democracy’ in action.
StuartBlack beat me to it.
I’m sure you have NO IDEA what I mean.
@Holebender
“StuartBlack”
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN 😉
@Macart;
🙂
How can the Tories ie. LibLabCon convince the UK electorate that the bedroom tax etc. is a viable cost to the people to afford the renewal of Trident at a cost of 250% of Britain’s annual public sector borrowing?
You would have to be bonkers to back that. If there was ever a world’s biggest display of fuk the people, this has to be it.
It must be getting close the time when Westminster declares that Iran has WMD’s thefefore, it cannot decommission Trident, for WMD’s to be vialble, a counter threat from some unholy state, must seem to be genuine.
Theyve already used NK as a nuclear threat although those in the know…know NK’s nukes are of too short a range to reach the UK, USA, no Iran seems the more likely option, Israels Netanyahu, seems to be pushing that old chestnut again of Iran possessing nukes.
Oh what Cameron/Darling would give for another Falklands War.
Excellent article today by Kevin McKenna over on the Guardian/Observer. A very good evisceration of Better Together Project Fear and what utter nonsense it has become.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/21/scottish-independence-better-together-campaign
@Atypical_Scot
If there was ever a world’s biggest display of fuk the people, this has to be it.
Or if ever there was a display of prestige before need…
Voting YES next year is really the only choice to lose this mind set.
@Chic McGregor:
@Holebender
“StuartBlack”
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN
Nice, Chic. 😀
@ Dal Riata
I was once told this stuff was made from oats rejected by Montgarrie Mill. How appropriate that Scotland’s biggest reject is sharing photo space with it!
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Columnist/Columnists/2013/7/19/1374243704125/Alistair-Darling-010.jpg
(@Rev Stu. Delete this if you think you’ll get sued. It’s too early for another fundraiser)
@ James Kay (not with an E!)
Methinks, you are very near to the truth of the matter. Somebody somewhere will be working out percentages and looking for the best win-win they can get.
I think Scottish Labour needs to have a debate on whether they are allowed to debate anything. If they decide they are then they need have a leadership debate and also a debate on whether their leader will be allowed to debate anything publicly. But whether they will do any of these things is debateable, or maybe not.
@Richie
Aye, right enough, LOL!
And the spelling of ‘porage’ for porridge always does my nut in. But then it fits perfectly with A. Darling and his ‘faux-rage!
I believe that J Lament was posed a question, on the hoof, by a Hack, about Millipede’s dissociation from the T Unions money tree and she replied ( I paraphrase ) that it was something to think about
She needs a big red batphone.
@Andy-B:
“Oh what Cameron/Darling would give for another Falklands War”
The Falklands War conveniently saved Thatchers skin. Wouldnt surpise me in the slightest if this lot rustled up another conflict or incident so we could all become terribly british and wrap ourselves in the butchers apron.
Esp if the evidence were repeatedly to show a steady tide-turning effect in favour of Indy.
Although I cant really think of a likely candidate. Iran is more likely to be a USA / Israel thing. Now a “terrorist attack” on N Sea installations; that would be very convenient wouldnt it?
A blatant disregard for the wishes of the people if polls are anything
to go by and even if they are not surely the wishes of the people
should be investigated and taken into account on such a serious issue.
Aren’t MPs supposed to ‘represent’ their constituents?
But, as we know if there is something in it for ‘them’ (e.g. Jobs
with defence contractors etc) they will pretty much do what they
want.
Barontorc
Would you expect a newspaper cartoonist to have an inside track on such speculation (if it has any foundation at all)? If so, then it might explain this series of extremely bizarre cartoons in the Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/cartoon/2013/jul/16/scottish-independence-alexsalmond
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/jul/17/alexsalmond-davidcameron
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/jul/18/scottish-independence-alexsalmond
I can’t think of many reasons why someone would want to portray a love match between DC and AS!
@James Kay,
I made the fatal, schoolgirl error of looking at the comments in one of your links. I would now like to push ‘Free Londoner’ down a flight of stairs.
@James Kay
‘I can’t think of many reasons why someone would want to portray a love match between DC and AS!’
Tartan Tory SNP is one of the Grauniad’s main default settings.
In defence of their nuclear “Union”, time for their Black & Tans again as all else continues to fail?
As Lamont would say to Ian Poulter, “The game’s a bogey”.
OT: Hahaha, just lost my “posting rights” on the Herald. Obviously challenged Jezza too much. Well, it was fun while it lasted.
An interesting note, is most LAB members I know actually support keeping Trident. It’s not a minority position within their party. Said “LAB blogger” just purports to have principles, when in fact he puts his undying loyalty to his party before his actually values. Which to me is the worst kind of supporter.
Just read a blog where he wrote he marched against the Iraq war in 2002, but then went on to vote for and support the same LAB gov. who brought the UK into that war.
Don’t worry, these folk are their own worst enemy. No one respects someone who says one thing and acts in a completely contradictory manner.
Good post. But where oh where is Johann?
O/T A different looking poll here.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-vote-46-don-t-know-enough-1-3008713
I’ll help by writing JL’s next script:
“There’s nobody I am unwilling to debate with.”
“Salmond is a nobody, Sturgeon is a nobody, Neil is a nobody,… “
Is there a credible reason for a small broke island off the coast of Europe paying for and maintaining a nuclear force over which it has almost no control, in the 2000s?
Apart, I mean, from the obvious one of status for the “leadership” and availability to follow Washington’s orders and vote their way on anything that actually matters.
@james Westland
Terrorist attack on North Sea oil rigs
Even the thought of this must give Osborne the runs, the lose of windfall tax from North Sea revenue, would send the UK Treasury into a fit, though a staged event is possible.
I still think it needs to be something closer to home, a Boston Bombing or some event that sways the Scots masses away from voting for independence, surely the farcical commemerations of WW1 next year will not be enough to pull the wool over Scottish eyes, then again.
In my opinion the BT must know their flagging the longer this campaign goes on, and the only way theyll win comfortably is through some under hand deed, which I think will materialse next year, but what will it be?
J Lament comes out of the closet and owns up to being the prototype for the famous Irn Vru advert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iyAcMi8rjk
In the same link Philip Hammond says that it will no be renewed before the next general election:
“I have to say to my hon. Friend—who is a great expert on this subject and has been one for longer than I can remember—that the essence of our strategy for defence procurement, which is at the heart of our determination to maintain a balanced budget, is that we do not make contractual commitments until we need to for the delivery of equipment in a timely fashion, when we need it. Locking in decisions before they need to be made merely reduces flexibility and, as the previous Government found out, drives cost into the programme if changes have to be made.”
“A cross-party group of MPs is to launch a campaign to force the UK government to sign the contract for the replacement Trident submarines before the next election.”
Surely this is the single most mindbogglingly ludicrous idea. What they going to do in the event of a YES vote and end up with nowhere to house them? It’s entirely conceivable that they would decide to play hard ball during negotiations on any number of issues that could lead to the Scottish negotiating team saying something along the lines of:
“See that base? See those subs in that base? Well you can take them away and sink them to the bottom of the ruddy ocean, cause the ain’t flaming well staying there”.
Alastair
As I said earlier, I suspect some of these swivel-eyed ones are secretly hoping that we vote Yes and Trident gives them an opportunity to send in a Expeditionary Force or maybe a Gunboat up the Clyde.
OT
YES SCOTLAND
Completely off topic And with apologies to McGonigal congratulating Phil Mickelson on his open win at Muirfield:—
Wrap me up in the Saltire so Blue
Mr Salmond Oh how I love You
When you come from behind, Oh its simply divine
I”Ve done it, so it”s now up to you.
Does anybody actually know what has happened to Lamont. At first I thought she was just keeping a low profile over Falkirk but she seems to have disappeared completely for weeks……
actually that sounds like I am complaining and that really isn’t the case.
Seen departing Glasgow Airport, en famille, for somewhere without internet connection?
While I don’t really see there being a direct assault on a N Sea rig – I think they are too squeamish in the contemplation of it getting out that it was them – I DO think that it’s almost inevitable that there’s a ‘leak’ that the security services have thwarted 23,349 terrorist attacks on the rigs in the past week and that it’s only the vast resources of MI5, MI6 etc who could do this for us.
Aren’t MPs supposed to ‘represent’ their constituents?
They’re supposed to represent the interests of their constituents, which is not the same thing as simply echoing their views. Representative democracy usually recognises that most voters are ill-informed, under-educated and fairly stupid, allowing their representatives to over-rule their more stupid opinions (which is why we haven’t reintroduced the death penalty). Unfortunately, it’s not very well adapted to the reverse position, where the self-interested politicians over-rule the sensible electorate.
“calling for an end to the Johann Lamont” …. That’s a bit harsh! 🙂
Sign the contracts in July…
“Scotland must meet the penalty clauses if the contracts are cancelled”
In case of any misaprehension—- Mr Mickelson was well down the field when the final round started in a golf tournament which he went on to win.
Please, please do not ban me sine-die as has already happend on Newsnet Scotland I am occasionally overcome by the exuberance of my own verbosity and promise to be a better bairnie in future.
PS.– I do not think McGonigal will be birlin in his grave.
“calling for an end to the Johann Lamont”
Did she go into administration and get relaunched as a newco?
Depends who is asking ad in what context.
What is certain is that the Newco will retain title to the SLab name and all the assets like John Smith House and the bunker therein. Also the bragging rights about once being elected .
I know where Johann Lamont IS !!!, she is currently very busy enlarging the bunker in George Square with a pick and shovel so they can secretly store trident there.
This will ensure the SNP and the people of Scotland will never know Westminster has not removed trident after a yes vote therefore garantteeing a seat in the LORDS, and she also reckons the heat from the nuclear missles will save on heating bills and keep the bunker nice and warm.
simples tic.
There’s enough empty space betwixt her lugs to store trident with room to spare.
Slightly OT, but just a little something to provide a backdrop to the Trident debate (sic). The Bank of International Settlement’s 83 Annual Report, published June 23. Rather gloomy reading from the central banker’s central bank. Highlights include;
– Total debt in large developed market and emerging market countries is now 20% higher as a percentage of GDP than in 2007.
– These countries have accrued an additional $33 trillion (US), since 2007.
– Most developed market economies now have a debt to GDP ratio in excess of 100%. This means the level interest due, is rising faster than our ability to make the payments.
http://www.bis.org/publ/arpdf/ar2013e.htm
@ Rev. Stuart Campbell
Could you sort my name out please. That’s just embarrassing this time.
@Doug Daniel:
“Anyone claiming they’ll change Labour’s mind on Trident is either stupid or dishonest. In the case of this particular Labour activist, I would suggest it is the latter.”
Reminds me of a Cold War dissident joke:
“It is possible to be honest, intelligent, or a Communist. It is also possible to be two of these things…”
I think ScottishSkier will be interested!
The Labour Parties chances of winning the next UK G-election, by a Labour party insider!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100226633/of-course-labours-numbers-are-down-the-public-dont-trust-ed-and-ukip-is-collapsing-2015-is-camerons-to-lose/
the only reason I can think of, for bringing the contracts forward is to write into them the most massive & punative cancellation clauses, so that prior to Sep14 – they could claim it’s too late for an independent Scotland to cancel Trident. This government will do anything to maintain the power base at Westminster so I wouldn’t put anything past them.
Can you imagine all these Scots; Michael Moore – Secretary of State for Scotland signing a binding undertaking on the Scottish people for Trident, constructed by Danny Alexander – Chief Secretary to the Treasury, unchallenged by Margaret Curran – Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland and praised by Jim Murphy – Shadow UK Defence Minister?
If you can foresee such a thing happening, it is not much different from what Harry Ewing, Willie Ross, Bruce Millan, all Scots and virtually every Scottish MP did when the McCrone report on Scotland Oil was hidden from the Scottish people for 30 years to prevent independent thinking and keep their beloved festering UK intact.