No Christmas
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December 21, 2019 by
Chris Cairns
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21 12 19 07:57
No Christmas | speymouth
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
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Christmas 2020 can be different.
Launch the life boat and ditch the sleigh.
James Cosmo as Santa?
Fake Santa, Childish Game, Stuffed Lion, Empty Box of Promises.
Roll on Boxing Day!
No not James Cosmo but the fraud from Westminster. More interested in his phone than doing his job. Nothing for Hamish this year.
That’ll be the Santa at Westminster Grotty.
Evidently the time to think outside the box….
Ah, he asked for the Action Man,deserter edition !
Not a hope it’ll happen, but I’d like to add my voice to the call for bringing our MPs up the road..
Edinburgh has perfectly good gay bars too!
I am in awe, Hamish needed to look concerned. Two small lines are all it took. Very well drawn Mr Cartoonist.
Can Santa or someone else give me a factual account of what is happening with the ferries at Ferguson’s?
I ask because I don’t trust the usual MSM sources.
No Christmas. Pretty apt first two lines as far as Johnson is concerned.
“I wonder if you’re going to ask me why I lied?
I wonder if you’re going to show you’re angry with me”.
Don’t worry Chris… The gift Scotland is about to get is not one Santa Clown even likes to see gifted to anyone…
Dear Santa, have I got news for you….
Hi hi hi…
And thanks Chris… Merry X to all with wings…
Ok that was obviously ho ho ho…
Bloody Google…
Bojo – the gift that keeps on giving. That wee stunt with the phone just added on a few more votes for us – Nicola’s petition now standing at 511,265 signatures and rising 🙂
re the last thread
Ignore the Treaty ? The thing that Peat Worrier describes as a mercantile treaty, the thing that Westminster, a creature of the treaty, seems to pay no heed to. The thing which even Thatcher & Enoch Powell said could not prohibit our Independence. The thing which is silent on so many matters. Aye, mibbe we should.
Sovereignty is asserted. Laws are changed because politicians change them because people change politicians. No more ‘it canny be done’.
Is that the ‘box’ that we Jocks are supposed to ‘get back into’ that Hamish is looking at?
Expect more empty boxes for those gullible enough to have voted Tory on 12th December.
We need a DISSOLVE THE UNION or YES Party, fully supported by Wings and Stu Campbell.
(“There’s no limit to what a man can do, or where he can go, if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit.”)
Whose #1 candidate and representative / spokesperson should be Craig Murray.
A party headquartered and run from Scotland.
A party with one policy only: Declare the Union dissolved, followed by a confirmatory referendum adopting an independence constitution.
Jeezo Chris you`ve summed it up exactly,
nae prezzies for the Scots just mair patronizing and disregard from Buffoon Boris,with the help of his herd of Uncle Jocks,
he could turn up to PMQs with a horse and proclaim it Chancellor and would still get a cheer from the Tory benches and Laura Kuenssberg,
he has all the power of a dictator now,
anyhoo, happy chrimbo shopping everyone.
Don’t worry Hamish,the Scottish people have been gifted our very own social media platform https://mastodon.scot
Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if BOJO and Cummings call the bluff of the SNP and grant an indyref2.
They’re on a high just now and full of confidence.
From their point of view, catch your enemy off guard.
No Christmas in the union, that’s for sure, nice one Chris.
Meanwhile, a Tory MP Sir William Cash compared leaving the EU like defeating Hitler. Cash added we will not be governed by another country, that this was a great moment for Britain, now we are not shackled to Europe.
Cash went on to say (with regards to the EU) we will still trade on friendly terms with our European neighbours,but we will have our own laws not EU ones. This vision of British independence inspires so many.
Cash ended with we will have our democracy and independence back.
I’m lost for words on the levels of hypocrisy here.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18116273.tory-compares-johnsons-brexit-defeat-hitler/
Perhaps Hamish had hoped for a bottle of mulled meths and a book of Christmas matches…
Well I have taken the opporchancity to show four folk here in the cafe and asked who Santa might be.
Two opted for the Cosmo (brave heart man) right away!
One went for Corbyn
My old dear nemesis daily mail reader couldn’t hazard a guess.
When I first looked earlier as I was leaving the house I thought Corbyn but wasn’t sure.
Anyhoo! Suck it up Hamish 🙁
Well he did get a box. Ungrateful wretch!
Genius “Toon” Chris.
If only we had the balls? eh!
Pete@10:02
They’re not daft…
BawJaws could easily introduce a Bill to modify the Scotland Act 1998 under a Section 30(2) Order in Council.
He’d magnanimously inform the SNP that, as the great respecter of the principles of British democracy, he’d been persuaded by the arguments put forward by Scotland’s First Minister and was only too pleased to oblige both the people and Parliament of Scotland.
He’d then sit back and watch as his backbenchers tore the Bill to ribbons during its First Reading in the House of Commons; killing it off by ensuring that it receives no further consideration in the House, with the Speaker no doubt gloating whilst bellowing “I think the No’s have it, the No’s have it!”
BawJaws would then blame the SNP for failing to persuade the House of Commons of the merits of their argument and claim that in fulfilling the UK Government’s duty to introduce the Bill, democracy had surely been seen to be done, irrespective of the outcome.
The door to IndyRef2 via a Section 30(2) Order in Council would have been firmly slammed shut by Westminster and both BawJaws and his boss, Mrs Betty Windsor from Surrey, would be purring like pigs in sh1t.
As for the rest of us…
What?
No shiny beads?
That’s taking this austerity gig a bit too far Santa.
Great image Chris. Scotland, sitting on England’s knee, it’s really creepy. I could tell it was Johnson, due to the strawman hair, notice he had it more combed and less of the just got out of bed look, gross,( fancy a quickie ladies!) in lead up to the GE?!
Johnson sitting with his mobile when Ian Blackford was speaking was a despicable display of disrespect, and the utmost contempt for Scotland and Scotland’s majority party, in Scotland and at Wesminster, the SNP.
Tories, and their pals in Labour, treating Scotland like a child, but not in a kind, fatherly way, more as a really mean and nasty step father, who sends the kid out to work down themines.
So, the British Nationalists determined to keep Scotland shackled to their dysfunctional backward cesspit, continue, (in front of the actual cameras and in front of the world!) to display nothing but contempt for Scotland’s democratically elected reprsentatives, if that doesn’t convince more people in Scotland to make sure they support every effort and every campaign towards independence, not sure what will really.
Leave the grotty grotto Scotland, before it’s too late!! No voters, don’t believe in santa, it’s a huge scam, run as fast as you can!
I have read about English deaths this week due to excessive waiting times for ambulances
A & E, staff and resource shortages.
Nice to know Prince Philip has helicopters on hand if he isn’t feeling well.
Lucky enough he can pick any hospital he likes to go to and he has no idea
What an NHS Queue is.
With all the Tory cut backs I wonder if they threw someone out to get Phil in?
Wonder if a Doctor was ordered to leave another patient to attend to him?
Will he have to pay English prescription charges.
The NHS should be in good shape for all and equal access for all.
I am an equal with every other human being on the planet.
No more and no less than anyone.
Yes I hope the old guy gets good treatment and gets well but did others
Loose out because he lives in a series of rent free palaces?
re the last thread
so we need 36 weeks as of the bill being passed in holyrood……… last time i looked there was 52 weeks in a year. what am i missing???
meh, unimportant, we need to know what the last 10 days has done to support for yes.
i also agree with the snp that bojos continued refusal to grant a s30 will increase support for yes
i also believe that bojo will strip powers right across the uk to the detriment of millions, including scottish voters
i also believe we will crash out with no deal on dec 31st next year. the fall out of which will affect millions across the uk, including scottish voters
also, if indyref2 doesnt happen next year, then a new indy political party (or 2) will contest the list seats in 2021, ensuring a pro indy majority. whether folk vote for a wos party is irrelevant, stu will continue to make the case for voting for other indy parties on the list.
i saw peter bell on twitter calling for a campaign of civil disobedience. 100’s agreed with him but no one, not even peter would say exactly what that would entail, apart from continuing to march at AUOB rallies
so i will suggest 2 actions
1. blockade aberdeen airport with cars. no crew changes means production on all platforms will stop
2. blockade grangemouth with cars. 30% of all UK petrol leaves grangemouth by tanker. the panic buying across the uk will ensure the whole of the UK shuts down
schrodingers cat says:
21 December, 2019 at 11:08 am
1. blockade aberdeen airport with cars. no crew changes means production on all platforms will stop
2. blockade grangemouth with cars. 30% of all UK petrol leaves grangemouth by tanker. the panic buying across the uk will ensure the whole of the UK shuts down
You’re insane, or hitting the eggnog too early.
And my instinct for civil disobedience falls closer to home and suing the Scottish Government for abdication of Scotland’s Popular Sovereignty and their tepid wholly ineffectual attempts to prevent Scotland from being Brexited in the first place.
Scotland has all the means necessary to defend it’s constitutional integrity from colonial subjugation, strength drawn from democratic mandates, Constitutional rights and integrity, and International Law.
What we NEED is a Scottish Government with fighting spirit in it’s veins rather than insipid timidity.
Show me the paperwork which actually removes Scottish Sovereignty from the people, or show me the paper which requires Scottish Sovereignty to be predicated by a democratic majority. Show me neither, and the people of Scotland remain sovereign and their will CANNOT be overruled. Boris Johnson can fk off like every other colonial governor who would treat Scotland as his possession, and if the SNP won’t defend Scotland’s Constitutional integrity, they can fk off too.
Why is everyone here so certain that Brexit and, especially NoDeal Brexit is going to be a disaster?
You all might just be sooooooooo wrong.
Maybe your minds are all addled by the SNP propaganda.
Pete,
What makes you so sure a Serial Liar for a Prime Minister who hates Scotland and who insults us and ignores us would be such a bad thing?
Really?
From The Bishops Wife,
” All the stkckings are filled____except one____amnd we have forgotten to even hang it up”
Boris gives away billions to everything whilst we will be put on the back burner.
Thanks Chris. Ve ry apt and timely reminder of what we face.
‘Flat Earth’ Branch Chair is back I see…
And while the bloods up and having a rant, am I meant to impressed that Nicola’s going to present a detail argument why Scotland should get a referendum? Oh my. Is this the same Nicola who wouldn’t give the Nation the very ghost of a detailed argument for over three years since the morning after Brexit because “we need to know the details”? Let me summarise those details.
Detail 1. Scotland is a sovereign Nation with a sovereign democratic mandate to stay in Europe.
That concludes the complete summary of all the detailed arguments why Scotland stays in Europe, and it’s been crystal clear to some of us since 24th June 2016.
What if we’re reading Boris Johnson all wrong?
Nicola Sturgeon has apparently written to Johnson requesting a section 30 order and everyone is assuming automatically that it’ll be refused, but what happens if it’s not?
Suppose Dominic Cummings looks at the polling for independence and suggests to Johnson that yes, grant them their section 30 order but stipulate that they have to hold the referendum on or by Sturgeons stated timescale of August 2020.
That creates a major problem for Sturgeon because Johnson will be seen to be conceding to her demands and also facilitating her preferred IndyRef2 date. Sturgeon can’t refuse or argue against it because it’s exactly what she’s been saying to everyone since before the GE.
But……….the polls say that support for Scottish Independence isn’t there…………..
So, Sturgeon has a choice. She either refuses Johnsons offer and is seen to be frit and not as keen on independence as she makes out to be, or she accepts Johnsons offer, goes ahead with a second referendum knowing the support isn’t there and knowing that if she loses, she’ll be seen as a failed leader and will have taken independence off the table for a good couple of decades at least.
Johnson would appear to be holding all the cards here because it all hinges on what Dominic Cummings thinks and say what you want about him, but he’s far from stupid.
This could be a real problem for Sturgeon, the SNP and the Indy cause.
I see with independentistas turning on each other that the BritNat black ops are having success! Divide and conquer – British Imperialism 101.
Have a great Christmas, everyone!
Pete says:
21 December, 2019 at 11:39 am
Why is everyone here so certain that Brexit and, especially NoDeal Brexit is going to be a disaster?
Floor is all yours Pete. Tell me why you think it won’t be.
You show me your arguments, I’ll show you mine.
Archetty 1049
Agree about disrespect by BOJO towards Blackford.
However, my wife (totally non- political) can’t stand his voice (boringly repetitive)nor his 1960’s bank clerk look and demands that the tv is put off whenever he appears.
Just shows that appearances are important.
Mist 001
To all the people who say that the polls aren’t there I say – remember, a GE only allows UK citizens over the age of 18 to vote.
An Indy ref allows people from age 16 upwards and EU citizens to vote. Both of these demographics show a majority for independence- so the proof of polls is not conclusive and polls are not reliable.
Let’s put it to the test and find out. I’m ready for the campaign.
2. blockade grangemouth with cars. 30% of all UK petrol leaves grangemouth by tanker. the panic buying across the uk will ensure the whole of the UK shuts down
You’re insane, or hitting the eggnog too early.
—————————–
the hauliers blockaded grangemouth and brought blair to his knees in 5 days
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/12/oil.business3
maybe not so insane
@ Mist001 – “at a time of our own choosing” So no. Dominic Cummings doesn’t get to choose when our referendums can be held.
My advice for what it is worth, just ignore the trolling pricks.
Jo Swinson wants an ermine robe for Xmas.
Colin Alexander
A very kind suggestion, but I am staying in the SNP on the basis that at some stage the membership are bound to see through Nicola Sturgeon. I may of course be wrong.
kapelmeister@12:33
The fur looks better left on the Stoat.
I said I post a link regards my last comment on the previous thread
His is an interesting link regarding a petition to westminster, waste of time, apart from the significance of the response.
https://www.facebook.com/100011279494013/posts/980665045652803/?d=n
When Boris goes to trade with the US if he think it will go all his way he is very much mistaken as this is what they do to countries who don,t toe the line and they don,t have the bottle to stand up to them.
https://on.rt.com/a7p9
No way should Boris or Cummings have any say in telling us when we hold our referendum.
The concept of independence needs no justification. Nonetheless, a logical, coherent, convincing and persuasive case can be made for it. The SNP strategists would be best employed making that case to the 50% who remain sceptical.
An obsession with the EU, an organization sometimes described as a self-serving capitalist club, a club that often fails in its mission to be a ‘third global force’, one that could really benefit from a complete ‘rethink’, doesn’t help.
This the moment to chuck the stolid conventions in the trash. Independence is ours to seize, if we truly want it, all the rest is blether.
@Mist001
Last indyref the polls were moved during the campaign from 30% Yes to 52% 2 weeks out before the infamous Vow*. As soon as we we know there WILL be one the campaign will begin and we can move the polls again.
Never underestimate the number of folk who are not interested in politics or too busy to care. I recall with two months to go we chapped the door one such mother who asked how long to go and being told decided she needed to get to grips with things. We certainly moved her towards Yes.
In Dundee Ric in the last stages we returned to areas we had canvassed and just re-visited undecided voters from the first canvass. We found they were moving to Yes 2-1. We knew then that Dundee would vote Yes. Might not be time enough next time but we can certainly chap a lot of doors and man a lot of street stalls. I’m up for it again. Are you?
Yes indeed Hamish. Get angry ‘coz we are not giving up yet.
Chris – your cartoons are always thoroughly enjoyed on Saturday mornings – never fail to raise a smile! I have to gently correct your interpretation for today’s offering though – Hamish’s wee box really isn’t that empty after all. Have a good Christmas and New Year.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/12/21/the-magic-money-tree/
On evidence of his ‘oeuvre’ Boris Johnson is rather fascinated by two things, the arch imperialist Winston Churchill and the ex imperial capital, London. Like all ethnic ‘outsiders’ he manages to be more nationalistic than the locals.
His manner is cavalier, bullish and buccaneering; deems that the source of England’s former global success. The Empire was built on such spirit of ‘enterprise’ and he couldn’t give a damn for those who disagree.
Scots by contrast, regrettably, appear, prim, legalistic, presbyterian, presbyopic, risk averse and just a little comic.
You don’t have to like Johnson to see that the English neo-nationalist great game is on the starting blocks…
I really hope we are not destined to be outmatched yet again because we underestimate the inventive skills of the opponent.
O/T
Where does Scotland, with all its gas reserves, stand in regard to the geopolitical Nord Stream 2 dispute?
Kapelmeister
On the side line, as per.
Craig Murray
Craig Murray said at 12:38 pm:
“Colin Alexander
A very kind suggestion, but I am staying in the SNP on the basis that at some stage the membership are bound to see through Nicola Sturgeon. I may of course be wrong”.
Okay.
So, are you gonnae re-launch your petition for international observers for an indyref, especially since your observations about the BBC’s extreme bias during the general election?
http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
OT I have just listened to radio 4 question time the unionist panel and the presenter all mentioned the once in a generation ref., the SNP rep., did not correct them by telling them that it was only the personal opinion of A.S. And he state that at the time it was not the opinion of anyone else that I know of why can’t these SNP rep answer these lies by exposing them to truth??? I could answer better than most of these SNP msps what the SNP has done for the people of Scotland is first class and I support them but their answers on these shows to me fall short tell it as it is its that simple going on these shows is like to being invited to someone’s house and being insulted all the time 3or4to1 the answer is stop going
Blair Paterson@3.01
I have brought up this very subject at countless SNP meetings, and discussed the subject at Indy hubs, Its like head butting a brick wall, other members say the same.
If the party cannot get to grips with simple easy answers to non binding questions, there is no point on going on.
The amount of times I have answered this question to Yoons, and shut them up in the process with the simple fact, I don’t understand why the SNP can’t, maybe they can’t be arsed.
I hope its not the easy Westminster money train in effect.
SNP remember Indy
Tick Tock in more ways than one.
Merry Christmas from a Restless Native.
Listened to Kirsten Oswald on BritNat Brainwashing Channel Wireless Station 4 last night. Was asked a straightforward question about currency and even had me shouting at the radio to answer the straightforward question with a clear and straightforward answer.
Whoever does media skills training for SNP MPs needs to go back to the drawing board.
Blair Paterson.
I am also in agreement. I just want to scream at times when an SNP rep gives a soft answer to a question that can be exposed as lies. There is never any assertiveness or passion.
1. blockade aberdeen airport with cars.
Given the Yoons are always claiming oil is worthless what would that achieve?
Of course they could apply “special measures” which would prove it’s the exact opposite.
2. blockade grangemouth with cars.
Jim Ratcliffe would simply threaten to close it down or demand the authorities provide compensation.
Cobham takeover: Boris Johnson defends £4bn sale to Advent International
This is just the start,funny no mention about this before the election.
All you who voted for Boris be aware.
Blair Paterson
Gary45%
Correct. They could easily respond: “Boris Johnson said: “I’d rather be dead in a ditch”. Was he bound by that? Only a fool can’t tell the difference between a binding statement and political rhetoric”.
And Scots in Aberdeen foolishly believed Bowie,s Tory hype that he would concentrate his efforts in full support of the electorate that sent him to Westminster.
As of March 2018, he was promoted to the position of parliamentary private secretary (PPS) within the Department for Digital, Culture, Media, and Sport (DCMS). His new role required his extended presence in Westminster as did his duties as a member of the UK Armed Forces Lobby group and his developing “Atlanticist” links. but he assured the constituents of West Aberdeenshire he would make an effort to fit these unrelated commitments together with his MP duties, into his busy schedule.
https://caltonjock.com/2018/02/10/aberdeenshire-west-tory-mp-andrew-bowie-a-political-toady-sponging-off-the-scottish-taxpayers-part-3-ambitious-conceited-and-more-right-wing-than-thatcher/
Another brilliant if somewhat depressing cartoon. Merry Christmas anyway!
Scott@4.11
If there is anything good to come out of the sell off, it will be the gullible who fell for the media garbage about Corbyn and falling for the most corrupt set of bastards ever known to run a so called democratic country, they will get a well skilled job washing chlorinated chicken for the Yanks.
Hell mend them and anyone else who believed their lies.
Smirker Patel will be laughing all the way to Tel Aviv, with the rest of the Tory scum.
But hey you were well warned.
Britain for sale to the lowest bidder, but make sure “I’m alright Jack”.
The Tory mantra.
re the baised media – Isobel Fraser this morning interviewed George Monbiot regarding the devastating bush fires in Australia. He lays the failure to deal with global warming squarely at the door of the media and Rupert Murdoch in particular. He notes that in the countries where the Murdoch empire reigns, right wing zealots hold sway. He regards Murdoch as the most dangerous man in the planet.
From 1hr 42mins on the BBC player:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ckcv
The preceding discussion on the bush fires is also very interesting. Fire chiefs are dreading today’s temperatures. The fires are so intense they are creating their own weather systems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BAEJyuReWQ
Civil Servant 1: “hahahahahaha”
Civil Servant 2: “What are you laughing at?”
Civil Servant 1:
“Nicola Sturgeon said the people of Scotland are sovereign and have the right of self-determination but, then asked Boris Johnson for the power to have a legally binding independence referendum”.
Civil Servant 1 and 2: “hahahahaha”
There is no Santa
There is no Independent Scotland
There is no such thing as justice or fairness
There is only us
And what we take
O/t
Just wondering in the light of recent events when some enterprising journalist might get an update from all those celebrities (Izzard, Snow etc) who were begging Scotland to stay in the union? Would be interesting if any of them had the courage to revise their opinion and said ‘sorry you were right, no one listens to you elected representatives, you’re better off escaping’?
Simon Curran @5.12pm.
I can’t think of any, the next best thing would be a Tory or ex-Tory minister saying Johnson can’t resist the Scottish calls for indyref2. Andrew Mitchell who served in Camerons cabinet has said that very thing
robertknight says:
21 December, 2019 at 3:50 pm
Listened to Kirsten Oswald on BritNat Brainwashing Channel Wireless Station 4 last night. Was asked a straightforward question about currency and even had me shouting at the radio to answer the straightforward question with a clear and straightforward answer.
Whoever does media skills training for SNP MPs needs to go back to the drawing board.
—————————————————————-The problem is Robert they don’t have a straightforward answer on currency or how it applies to EU membership it’s a fucking joke 5 years after it screwed them up in Indyref1 they still don’t have an answer,
I’ve just been listening to Robin MacAlpine on Indyref Radio and he’s convinced me Stu’s right we won’t see an independence referendum in 2020 which is a good job because if we did we’d get wiped out again because the SNP still don’t have straightforward answers to simple questions
@ Pete
Wasting your time buddy. Ive written a lot, with numbers, here on why Brexit doesnt have to be a disaster. As Mr Campbell himself is constantly showing – facts dont mean a damned thing to desperate people
Hamish, ye wee soul, an empty box is a fresh start, like so many of nation were forced to do across the seas over the centuries.
Let’s make our fresh start here in Scotland.
@ pete @ 11.39am
Hi Pete..not just SNP that said Brexit/NoDeal would be bad.
Revisit who was pro remain in EU ref campaign…a helluva lot of Unionist politicians from ALL parties…so NOT just down to SNP at all.
Sooooooooooooo by your reasoning ‘propaganda’ was being spread by politicians from ALL political parties…..not just as you put it “minds being addled by SNP propaganda”….
Facts matter as does detail…. no matter how much you seek to promote #SNPBAD….
We, I consider, have had a sufficiency of rhetoric, bluster, hyperbole and so on. We know what we want. We must be determined to get it.
Of all the stateless nations Scotland deserves, indeed merits, better than the status quo, even although certain of its citizens haven’t the wit to appreciate that.
Why, in the name of so called democracy, ought we to be ‘disenfranchised’.
Good grief – what a bunch of miseryguts on this thread. Moan, whinge, whine, girn – WE’RE DOOMED – DOOMED I tell you. The SNP’s rubbish, Nicola’s Sturgeon’s a liar she disnae really want independence, SNP politicians are wasters, useless and ignorant, Scotland’s chained forever. We’ll never get another referendum. Cringe.
Get a grip.
Clapper 57@6.12
Yes, you are correct that there were a lot of Remainer fanatics within the unionist parties but I think it’s fair to say that the SNP at Westminster were 100% pro EU.
No deviation allowed.
What currency will you use?
The pound – and you can’t stop us.
Any more stupid questions?
That’s all it takes.
@ Pete @ 6.43pm
Hi Pete…There were/are Pro Leave Brexit “fanatics” if you want to stick to facts and detail.
I think SNP at WM being 100% pro EU falls in line with majority Remain vote in Scotland….so not really controversial position.
Not sure deviation not being “allowed” was reason they, SNP MP’s, were 100% pro EU actually…think it was because they saw membership of EU as more beneficial to Scotland as opposed to the alternative of being (over) ruled by a UK Tory led government…..more so now with tag team of Boris & Dominic Cummings in charge….aided by the Brexit uber pro Leave “fanatics” aka the ERG.
Aren’t we so lucky to have intellects like Joe here, amongst us lesser beings, to keep us right
“Mission control, the ego has landed”
@ Capella @ 6.42pm
Hi Capella…how you doin ?
Aye…when the going gets tough….well it would appear there will be many who want to spell out how tough it is going…Lol
Anyway I am now away out to socialise…will be tough…but I really must get going.
Have a good evening.
@ Clapper57 – I’m absolutely fine thanks. But I can’t be bothered with the endless moaning of some commenteers – not you 🙂
You’re right though. Time to go and do somethong more uplifting than listening to those doors squeaking.
Joe @ Brexit doesn’t have to be a disaster.
Funny you should say that Joe
2 different LBC presenters said the very same thing several times yesterday !
Fess up are you a secret listener? 🙂
Although when that James OBreen guy was asking it of Scottish Yes voters on Thursday,
I must admit I thought….. here we go… the new British narrative…
“All we are saying is give Brexit a chance , it might no be all that bad!
Completely missing the point that we’ve rejected it over and over…..
So for Scotland there can be no Democratic Brexit and surely that can never be good?
LOOK…you can’t just declare Scottish independence and think that bringing Scotland’s MPs back from Westminster sorts things.
IT DOESNT
Scotland will get independence..that is CERTAIN
The quickest way is a referendum with a majority over 50%
That is ALL that is needed
Yes we could hold one next week ignoring the electoral commission and ignoring England’s Westminster and ignoring everyone else who objects
BUT …and its a BIG BUT..
.we have a majority of ELECTED MPs in Holyrood and Westminster but as we have heard from the unionists this last week
Overall a majority of actual voters in Scotland voted against Scottish independence in 2014 and a majority of people in Scotland voted for unionist parties in the recent GE
OK yes a lot of those who voted for unionist parties in Scotland would perhaps vote for independence but you can’t ignore the unionist supporters because that would be unfairness and undemocratic
We are a democratic country
what we want is a watertight declaration of independence and that takes patience
We have to close very door one by one and lock a Scottish independence referendum in
BJ can refuse a S30 all he wants but sooner or later it will be agreed
WHY is it important to have agreement to a Scottish independence referendum ?
Well because a S30 is not England’s permission to have a Scottish independence referendum
We do not need their permission
We do not need anyone’s permission
We don’t even need England’s agreement to respect the result of a Scottish independence referendum or negotiate separation and division of assets
BUT it is in our interest to have their agreement
AND it is in their interest to agree and negotiate separation and division of assets if the result delivers a majority in favour of Scottish independence
What the SNP are doing is locking the doors
BJ is still fresh from his victory in the GE and is high on quick remarks and bluster
but soon the real business of government has to be done
Good Chris.
Not funny at all, but good all the same.
Poor Scottish Hamish being shafted upon the knee of the Great Brutish santa.
Says it all about both those repulsive vulgar institutions.
Britain and Greedmas I mean.
I posted on the last thread about a failed petition to Westminster to ‘ Dissolve the Union’. It was rejected by the petitions committee for the following reason ‘ that it was for the people of Scotland to decide and not the UK gov or Parliament.
I have tried unsuccessfully to post the link from ‘All under one Banner’, but neither the link or comment appears, so for anyone interested, and you should be, you will find it on AUOB.
I have to admit that the petition didn’t interest me since it was being sent to the wrong parliament and for the simple reason that the Sovereign People of Scotland cant control Westminster, but they can instruct Holyrood. You heard straight from the horse’s mouth, the people not Westminster decide.
@Capella (6.42) –
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 😉
It’s just because this is the shortest day and we’re aw sufferin fae the light deprivation.
From tomorrow on, a wee tad more light every day.
Soo-perb!
😉
We need to look at the Catalan situation to see where we go from now. If the UK ignores us then there’s not much we can do as a home-run referendum won’t be accepted by the international community.
At the end of the day, the only people we need to convince are the yanks. What better way than offer to become the 51st state of the Union? Once we are free from London’s shackles the people might actually wake up!
Capella
Tell me what exactly in the last five years has NS done to further the cause of independence, what tactic has she employed to convince more people to vote yes .
All she has done is react to events.
@ Ian Brotherhood says:
21 December, 2019 at 9:21 pm
@Capella (6.42) –
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
It’s just because this is the shortest day and we’re aw sufferin fae the light deprivation.
From tomorrow on, a wee tad more light every day.
Soo-perb!
A day early 22nd December is the shortest day this year.
Cynical Highlander @ 9.51
Awww….. Did it matter that we all believed it was today?
We really wouldn’t have noticed…
I have come to the conclusion that to have posted that, you must be a really
…. Cynical … person!!! 🙂 🙂
maxxmacc – Not enough iron(y) in the world to take that comment seriously. Anyway, we’d still have a fight on our hands with westminster as that’s, after all, the tories preferred goal.
Crimbo number one someone in the comments asks.
Moving to Scotland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-FT3W-rXsA
I see the “What if leaving the EU will be good” clan are back at it again.
I’m still waiting for some detailed responses from last week when I asked them to provide evidence to counter the numerous studies already carried out by organisations that conclude the effects will be negative.
maxxmaxcc @ 9.29
I don’t think that looking at the struggle the Catalans have of being locked into a Constitution would be of any help to us.
( except for inspiration from their dedication to be free )
A repeat of the terms and conditions of the 2014 vote would, just, be the best way to go. So why shouldn’t we aim for it?
( My Sat Nav does that all the time,it seems very determined to take me the best route )
But no one, absolutely no one in the Yes movement has said it’s the ONLY way to go!
We have other options for the doing of it… Of course we do.. And they are being talked about among us all the time!
Westminster can’t hold in us the Union only the People of Scotland can do that.
We’ve always been able to leave… And we will….
@ Ian Brotherhood – just looked in after watching a film and your post fair cheered me up! You’re right, the shortest day today or tomorrow but then the sun is back 🙂 🙂 🙂
Tjenny @ 10.11
(Y) clever girl…. Wish I’d thought of it 🙂
Such a pity that there are those who judge on such a superficial level as looks and not on the actions someone takes.
@Liz g
Lol somethings never change and the equinoxes are one of them.
What has Nicola Sturgeon ever done for us!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ozEZxOsanY
Cynical Highlander @ 10.37
LOL…. On some level I know that..
And I do come here for the right truth..
But that was brutal… I feel cheated of daylight now 🙂
I guess I’ll have to have a dram ..
I suggest you do to otherwise the guilt will eat ye up…. Drink to the 23rd.. Yay 🙂
Joe @5:48
Not sure about desperate.
I can only speak for myself – certainly, I’m tougher than the rest.
And I’m sure I’m not alone, in the Independence movement.
scunner says:
1. blockade aberdeen airport with cars.
Given the Yoons are always claiming oil is worthless what would that achieve?
Of course they could apply “special measures” which would prove it’s the exact opposite.
——————–
like what special measures? would they tele transport the crude from the wells to the refinery?. no, a 1 week blockade would cause oil production in the north sea to almost cease.
a 5 day grangemouth blockade would do the same.
the point being made is that civil disobedience which affects scotland only is of little use, the 2 examples i gave would affect the entire uk
Jim Ratcliffe demanding the authorities provide compensation, fine, this a reserved interest. it is bj who would need to pay
Talking to an auld timer.
It was bloody genuis wi thae Tories. Nae wunner they won says the auld timer.
How? Says I.
Labour and anti-semitism. For months and months that’s aw we heard aboot Labour oan the BBC.
Then whit dis the Tories dae? Haud an election in December. The coldest time of the year.
Aw they poor sowels in the North of England. They say to thersels: Johnson and the Tories are thievin gets. Steal the shirts aff yir back but at least we’ll have our vests.
But Corbyn and Labour, their anti-semmits. They want our vests too.
Liz g – Great minds think alike. 😉
@Liz g
Cheers enjoy it.
Colin Alexander – snigger. 😉
Thought about some people have suggested non-violent civil protests to make Scotland’s voice heard.
Vaguely remembered a BBC studio protest story: lesbians handcuffed to a desk.
So, I googled: “Nationwide lesbians handcuffed to desk”. Oooh Matron! Please don’t google this term!
It was the second page of search suggestions before I found the BBC story. I can’t tell you what the first page said.
But, that’s me on Santa’s naughty list just before Christmas.
Colin A @10:53
Far from me to stand up for Labour, but Corbyn and antisemitism was classic pavlovs dogs….that and indecision on Brexit of course……every single time the interview ran, repetition repetition…….and those thick fucks in the North of England sucked it right up..
dumb, thick bastirts the lot of them. I hope they pay.
Anyone interested in the minute differences of sunrise and sunset around the Solstice should have a peek at this website
http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk
you can customise it for your neck of the woods.
Corbyn was pro-Brexit.
Pro-democracy.
Corbyn was pro-Scottish self-determination.
He didn’t stick with his gut convictions.
He caved in to those who demanded Scotland cannae have the indyref2 they voted for.
Caved into those who demanded you cannae give the Brexit-English the Brexit they voted for.
Labour have actively supported and had a symbiotic relationship with the utterly corrupt and completely biased BBC -for decades- where it’s been used in Scotland as the voice of Imperial Britain to suppress Scotland’s voice and attack Scotland’s independence cause.
Imperial Britain turned on Labour. Labour’s beloved BBC assassinated Mr Corbyn and Labour without a dagger or a bullet. The pen is sharper than the sword.
—————————————–
Wake up Labour Left in Scotland. You cannot serve two masters. You cannot serve the people of Scotland AND the Imperial British ruling class. The Scots will one day forgive you and welcome you despite the betrayals, if you join us.
The Imperial British will always use you to weaken Scotland but will always hate you too, no matter how many times you serve them as their Imperial puppets.
Since Friday 13th, how many times have any of you heard the words Anti Semitism on the media outlets, compared to before the GE?
And the gullible are still clueless as to who really controls the masses.
Hey Ho Summer is on its way, longer days for the inbred gullible to bitch about the EU, and how anybody but the bastard Tories are responsible for their personal, pathetic situation.
Happy Daze.
SNP its time to “grow some”. If not? move over.
@schrodingers cat
I’m in one of my troughs of pessimism.
Just a week ago we had a fantastic result while still ending up with the likes of Alister “union” Jack and several other “wtf” results with the UK result a disaster.
When I’m in this kind of funk, I imagine State exercising force, Direct rule and the likes.
I guess you’re an optimist.
@Gary45%
I believe I made a similar comment regarding a week or more of constantly attacking the NHS in Scotland. I could be wrong, but hasn’t that basically petered out since the 13th?
Why would such an “important” story just fade away? Surely such an apparent and seemingly ongoing scandal would still be relevant enough for sustained reporting…
OT This can only end badly, and hunting down Sarah Connor…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjCWfuvYxQ
The weird thing is, I want to help it escape.
Should the UK Government repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, then Section 4 of the Act will no longer apply to Scotland.
Under the 2011 Act, the UK General Election would have clashed with elections for the Scottish Parliament in 2020.
To prevent a clash, the Scottish Parliament passed the Scottish Elections (Dates) Act 2016 which moved the date for the elections to the Scottish Parliament to 2021.
And,if the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 is repealed, I presume the Scottish Government could repeal the Scottish Elections (Dates) Act 2016 to allow them to hold elections to the Scottish Parliament on the 7th May 2020, rather than wait until the 6th May 2021?
After Brexit Day (31st January 2020), the UK and the EU will move on to negotiations under Article 50, Part 4.
This part refers to Article 218 –
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-218
“Article 218 (8) sets out that in most cases, the Council must agree the final deal by a qualified majority vote. That means that 72% of the 27 member states (representing at least 65% of the total population of the 27 member states) need to vote in favour of the agreement. However, if the agreement covers certain areas – including EU accession, EU finances, or common foreign and security policy – then the Council must agree to the deal by a unanimous vote. Whether or not the final Brexit deal will require a unanimous vote therefore depends on the scope of the agreement.”
That says an ‘EU accession’ could form a part of any agreement (I do not see why one should not) –
https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/glossary/terms/accession-eu_en
“Accession to the EU
European Commission – Enlargement – Accession to the EU
Accession of new member states to the European Union (EU) is governed by Article 49 of the Treaty on European Union”
That scenario leads perfectly to Article 50, Part 5 –
“If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49. “
Maxxmacc and Lizg
You fundamentally misunderstand the Catalan/EU situation. The EU has no problem with states splitting. Almost half its members states are the product of recent splits.
But the EU always supports its member states. It supported Spain over Catalonia because Spain was a member state.
But the UK will not be a member state. Scotland, on the other hand, will be seceding with the declared aim of becoming an EU member state.
The dynamics for recognition are entirely different.
Maxxmacc and Lizg
You fundamentally misunderstand the Catalan/EU situation. The EU has no problem with states splitting. Almost half its member states are the product of recent splits.
But the EU always supports its member states. It supported Spain over Catalonia because Spain was a member state.
But the UK will not be a member state. Scotland, on the other hand, will be seceding with the declared aim of becoming an EU member state.
The dynamics for recognition are entirely different.
Guy Verhofstadt says we are being screwed by the British elite, pardon his French:
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1207960601588318208?s=20
The SNP will not tear itself apart. Nor will it go soft on independence. Rather it will full itself tighter and change policy.
First Minister Surgeon got the mandate. That was required. Nicola is a very capable First Minister and we owe her a debt of gratitude. But she must now use the mandate and cannot stand idly by whilst the Conservatives do as they wish.
The membership and the wider movement will require the party to use its mandate. Of that there is no doubt. Scotland voted to remain in the EU. The SNP declared for Europe and for a mandate to stop Brexit. Scotland is in political union with England. That union can be broken. The Act of Union 1707 did not come about because of a S30 referendum granted by England benevolence. England is not the master – despite what Johnson and his ilk think.
Government can only be by consent. If England cannot understand that, then it must be taught it.
Craig Murry @ 7.07
EH ???
I don’t believe I’m misunderstanding anything….
The EU IMHO is has no business interfering in member states issues.
Groupthink approval as a consumer is fine,but, only as a pressure group.
It should not claim power it does not, and should not have.
While that’s unfortunate for Us and Catalonia in this instance…. I don’t want it to have that kind of power…
The EU is a trading block and should mind it’s business as such, otherwise everything the Brexit nutters have been sayin would be true!!
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18117341.not-last-christmas-eu-smith-insists/
..and pigs might fly Mr Smith.
While this site descends into examining its own navel the likes of Kevin HAGUE are “winning” the economic argument on Twitter.
How about getting back to the day job?
@Famous15 says:
22 December, 2019 at 10:06 am
While this site descends into examining its own navel the likes of Kevin HAGUE are “winning” the economic argument on Twitter.
How about getting back to the day job?
You should try doing your job when both hands are tied behind your back and you’ve got duck tape over your mouth. Let us know how you get on.
UK Brexit fire sale begins?
https://web.archive.org/web/20191222101432/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50879809
“ Boris Johnson has defended the controversial £4bn takeover of UK defence and aerospace company Cobham by a US private equity firm.”
A rather poignant story by Bill Bain in The Herald, on how Rod Hull (of “Emu” fame) is being demonised by Celtic supporters…
http://archive.is/WdZY5
https://www.facebook.com/574952878/posts/10156925683422879/?d=n
ahundredthidiot
Put yourselves in the shoes of the people of the North of England just for a minute. They have been treated with contempt by the UK state, just like Scotland. Repeatedly failed by Labour and decimated by the Tories, just like Scotland. We have the SNP, YES and AUOB. Who did they have to give them hope?
It’s so hard to accept that the British Establishment have spent at least the last 50 years in a tag-team of self-serving British Imperialism and career politics whilst betraying the working class, especially in the North of England, where the Labour vote was taken for granted (exactly like Scotland).
It’s hard to accept no matter who you vote for, Northern England will be an afterthought at best.
It’s easier to listen to the BBC/ Farage/UKIP/ Brexit Party/ Tories and blame foreigners for that than accept your own country cares nothing for you and your family and your region.
Pity the people of North of England. Don’t hate them. They are Scotland without the SNP, Scotland without any hope of escape from the British Imperial rot.
Wasn’t Spirograph lad a director of Endura cycling clothing that put out a statement during indyref stating they wouldn’t vote YES as it was important the business remained in the EU.
The statement has now been removed and cannae find an archived at the moment.
https://blog.endurasport.com/?BlogID=282
Here’s an article that touches on the subject.
https://web.archive.org/web/20191222101837/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13172837.endura-boss-ill-move-part-of-company-out-of-scotland-if-theres-yes-vote/
Would have thought Endura, in light of EU ref result, would have been the sort of company that would have altered its stance.
However it looks like the company may have been snapped up by a larger entity now.
@Craig Murray 07.07
Indeed the EU seems to have ‘no probs’ with states breaking up, the Germans were the arbiters of the splitting of Yugoslavia, and Brussels aided the velvet divorce of the Czechs and Slovaks. Alas when civil war broke out among the south Slavs the EU failed to take the initiative. The US bombing of Belgrade and the mess in Bosnia speak suggestively of the nature of the EU mindset when the chips are down.
And when, Sturgeon willing, those chips are finally down re Scotland and the demise of the United Kingdom I am not expecting the EU to be pro active, as there are not a few anglophiles in EU capitals and among the Scandi contingent.
There is a saccharine, maudlin sentimentalizing of the EU in certain circles. In practical terms Scotland is on its own. We want independence, we seize it. We do not need permission, approbation or fairweather cheerleaders on the sidelines.
Surely Cameron Archibald will be busy countering etch-a-sketch chump and hammering home the positive economic aspects of Scotland governing itself.
Unless MMT now stands for Men’s Menopause Therapy…
@ Liz g – I think what Craig Murray is referring to is that the EU supports member states of the EU. Look at the support Ireland has had over the BREXIT issue and the international treaties which will be impacted such as the Good Friday Agreement.
It is a trade block. But it has a raft of standards and international treaties which it will abide by and member states are expected to do the same.
Once the UK leaves the EU it will have no obligation to support the UK, nor to make trade deals with it against its principles.
Willie says:
22 December, 2019 at 8:17 am
First Minister Surgeon got the mandate. That was required. Nicola is a very capable First Minister and we owe her a debt of gratitude. But she must now use the mandate and cannot stand idly by whilst the Conservatives do as they wish.
The membership and the wider movement will require the party to use its mandate. Of that there is no doubt. Scotland voted to remain in the EU. The SNP declared for Europe and for a mandate to stop Brexit. Scotland is in political union with England. That union can be broken. The Act of Union 1707 did not come about because of a S30 referendum granted by England benevolence. England is not the master – despite what Johnson and his ilk think.
I have yet to see a single scrap of credible evidence that suggests the Act of Union can be dissolved by just one of the parties (ie Scotland). Not one scrap. The Declaration of Arbroath, the Claim of Right – nice to have, but neither of these are credible in a court of law I am afraid. There are plenty of lawyers in the SNP, and if there is any possible route to independence other than a legally sanctioned referendum I am sure it has been exhaustively examined.
I can therefore only see two ways Scottish independence can come about. The first is by mutual consent after a binding vote. The second is via a period of civil unrest or worse which eventually leads to the first.
So let’s march, let’s demonstrate, let’s see prominent YES hubs opening in every town in Scotland, let’s see some billboards appearing as permanent features in high traffic locations, let’s keep up the pressure – then perhaps we will see the mainstream opinion polls showing 60%+ for indy over a protracted period.
Where are the opinion polls asking the indy question, btw? Is this site planning on commissioning any? If not, why not?
And where are the billboards, where is the Scottish branch of Led by Donkeys?
AUOB seem to be the only group keeping up the pressure. This site is looking dead on its arse, are the coffers empty or are there plans afoot?
Dan
19 Jun 2018 Notification of Pentland Group Plc as a person with significant control on 28 March 2018
75% or more share control.
19 Jun 2018 Cessation of James Brown Mcfarlane as a person with significant control on 28 March 2018
http://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC128821/filing-history
Kevin Hague and James McFarlane Brown (Endura) both listed as directors of M8
this is interesting:
http://relationshipscience.com/connections/james-brown-mcfarlane-4812023
@ ScotsRenewables
I am on the panels of several different pollsters, and one of them (unfortunately I can’t remember which) has asked me that question within the last week.
If another one does, I’ll let you know here.
Thanks Crazycat, I look forward to seeing it published. If you remember which one it was please let us know.
There can only be a democratic route to Indepence. I believe Scots sense of fair play will play a big part, alongside the belief in England that we are subsidy junkies.
As early as February we will have a budget. If there is any hint that Scotland and Northern Ireland are being treated better than the new Tory areas, there will be discontent.
Johnson only has one option to avoid this and that is to scrap the Barnett Formula. That will only increase Scottish votes feelings of being treated badly.
Having said that, there is little prospect of serious cash injections to the NHS, etc. Only promises of future spend. Definetly not £350m from the side of a bus.
Then negotiating with Europe and the rest of the world will show people the folly of leaving the EU. By then it’s too late but the sense of injustice will be there.
Johnston’s honeymoon period won’t last long. There will be tensions in the ranks of the extreme Tories to cut there losses and that will lead to Scotland and Northern Ireland going there own way.
I’m very civil with my disobedience.
Never paid for Auntie, never will.
Firm but fair. 🙂
ScotsRenewables says:
22 December, 2019 at 10:57 am
….I have yet to see a single scrap of credible evidence that suggests the Act of Union can be dissolved by just one of the parties (ie Scotland). Not one scrap. The Declaration of Arbroath, the Claim of Right – nice to have, but neither of these are credible in a court of law I am afraid.
Bollocks. You see before a Scottish Legal system and Religious orthodoxy which only exists at all by the same Constitution which describes the Scottish people as sovereign. We have discernible culture, traditions, history and heritage, not to mention geographical borders and territories which define what Scotland is, and predate the mendacious contrivance of the 1707 Union.
Do not look for holes in our Constitution to excuse the timidity of our Scottish Government and thereby leave Scotland denuded of rightful protection in law, let us instead cite Scotland’s legitimate Constitutional rights and set about driving a coach and horses through Westminster’s fanciful assertions and deluded notions about UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, which they maintain empowers Westminster to affect colonial subjugation over the democratic will of a sovereign people contrary to International Law.
The Union is breached and fractured into ruin, and about bloody time. Scotland’s Constitution is sound.
Derek Mackay finance secretary twiddling his thumbs waiting on WM to get it’s budget done!
The National says 5000 new members for SNP since the GE result.
Hmm! Waiting on the reply letter from Boris….not!
If this is so, kiss Indy bye bye & bail out.
https://melkelly60.wixsite.com/whatthepapersdontsay/post/2017/05/02/snp-put-tories-in-charge-of-election-countb
@defo
We couldn’t find this page.
“Waiting on the reply letter from Boris”
How long does the FM wait?
Would 1 or 2 months be a normal reply time, considering there’s Christmas and the new year coming up?
After re-sending letter and doc in case of no answer, what happens if there ìs still no reply?
@ Breeks – Scots Renewables is talking about contracts. You can’t resile a contract simply by standing up in your town square and announcing to the world that you are no longer married/buying a house or car/ hiring a moblie phone or whatever contracts you have signed an agreement for.
Read the small print. There will be consequences and procedures for exiting a contract. In Scots law a contract is binding even if you haven’t signed a piece of paper. Simply stating it over the phone is enough.
That doesn’t mean you are not a free person with personal sovereignty. But you signed a contract. That is binding in international law.
Re the constant repetition that the SNP leadership is too timid. Don’t you think it takes some courage to stand up in Holyrood or Westminster week after week and spell out the message that Scotland’s voice will be heard, that Scotland will have a choice, that Scotland is not leaving the EU etc in the face of the hooray henries of the opposition? Could you do it?
@ defo
If Mel Kelly told me it was raining, I’d look out of the window to check. She means well, I’m sure.
Try this?
https://melkelly60.wixsite.com/whatthebpapersdontsay/post/2017/05/02/snp-put-tories-in-charge-of-election-count
Nope . We looked everywhere for this page
Ok,sorry. It came from Craig’s blog.
Top of current comments page.
Aka
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/12/london-will-never-give-independence-we-must-take-it/#tc-comment-title
–
in reply to myself (!) about what’s going to happen if Johnson refuses or ignores the FM’s request, I’ve just found this:
“It is our intention to lodge an action by ordinary members of Scotland’s general population against the UK Government when they refuse or ignore a formal request from the First Minister of Scotland for an order under Section 30 of the Scotland Act to devolve the powers necessary to hold a second independence referendum”
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-scottish-people-vs-the-uk/
That works defo thanks.
You’re welcome CH
Utterly depressing.
Not just one more SNP bad, if true there is no hope.
Happy solstice everyone. A picture of the sun at Newgrange (from Rev Stu twitter). After today the days are getting longer.
https://twitter.com/RobGMacfarlane/status/1208574756422901760?
Mair licht
s=20https://mouseeatmouse.bandcamp.com/track/mair-licht
@Craig Murray
If the UK fully leaves the EU then any encouragement the EU gives to Scottish separatists could be considered as meddling in UK domestic politics. No? This would give the UK carte blanche to designate indy supporters any way they like…which would justify crack downs on Scottish expressions of self determination
Im no expert on international politics but i think the UK would only need half an excuse of ‘foreign meddling’ to justify whichever methods they wish to use.
It would always be used against the indy supporters and with a strong argument for doing so. Thats how it seems to me
Joe,
You area cracker!
Wouldn’t you call England stopping Scotland from having any say in our own future as meddling?
The Tories will stop at nothing to keep Scotland’s money in the pockets
Of their elite backers.
I include murder and sending in the Army to protect their proceeds of crime.
@Crag Murray 07:07AM,
Scotland will not be seceding anything. Scotland will be dissolving, ending, discontinuing, or ceasing the union with the kingdom of England but it will not be seceding.
@Colin Alexander,
I remember James Brown McFarlane, manager of Endura (cycling gear), telling his staff to vote No during Indy 1 because his business would be effected by Scotland being thrown out the EU if we voted Yes,
and he would have to relocte his business and Scottish staff would lose their jobs,
i think he is one of Dog Food Boy`s high priests.
@ Effijy
Im not suggesting what is right or wrong. Im gaming out a potential scenario and thinking about outcomes.
The last 2 sections of your comment are in agreement with what im actually saying.
@Joe
As long as support for independence remains at circa 50% the occasions for meddling readily present. The Johnsonite British state, Johnson is currently visiting British troops in Estonia, is turning up the heat on defence and security. That brings NATO, the US and a whole raft of miscellaneous fears and threats to the party. Iran and the strengthening of links with the British created Iranian Gulf autocracies signals in neon the post brexit trend. SNP is rather vague on how an independent state would handle such matters. Expertise, or interest, does seem lacking. The longer the political process drags on, the opportunities for dirty tricks will grow exponentially. The British state shedding territorial waters, prestige, ‘clout’ is not something to which it will resignedly acquiesce.
I wonder how many Scots in the services favour independence? Care to hazard a guess?
Pete wrote on 21 December, 2019 at 11:39 am:
“Why is everyone here so certain that Brexit and, especially NoDeal Brexit is going to be a disaster? You all might just be sooooooooo wrong. Maybe your minds are all addled by the SNP propaganda.”
Because all credible sources tell us it will be a disaster for Scotland. Have a look through this link for many references and then have a look through WOS’ archives for even more references. BTW, note how my 2 points of reference each have absolutely nothing to do with the SNP. And just for a 3rd reference try reading through the ‘Business for Scotland’ site – also not connected to the SNP. Now, can i see your evidence? Do you have any? https://indyposterboy.scot/yes-posters-and-cards/
Simon Curran wrote on 21 December, 2019 at 5:12 pm:
“Just wondering in the light of recent events when some enterprising journalist might get an update from all those celebrities (Izzard, Snow etc) who were begging Scotland to stay in the union? Would be interesting if any of them had the courage to revise their opinion and said ‘sorry you were right, no one listens to you elected representatives, you’re better off escaping’?”
I’ve thought about a similar scenario many times. How about a proper media that would hold them to account and the part they played in screwing Scotland? Actively seek them out, especially ‘Jakie Howlin’ and that scruffy tramp Geldoff & Co etc. But hey, we would need a proper media for starters so i suppose it’s never going to happen.
@ Ottomanboi
Thats not something i would care to guess. In fact im pretty unsure what to think in general when it comes to the current situation. Theres more deception, delusion and misinformation going on than the average joe can ever hope to keep up with
Ones things for sure – its not healthy to tie Scottish independence with anything other than the right of Scottish people to determine their future. Tying it to Brexit failure, EU politics, woke ideologies etc are unecessary and act as handles for opponents to grasp to.
Capella says:
22 December, 2019 at 1:29 pm
…Re the constant repetition that the SNP leadership is too timid. Don’t you think it takes some courage to stand up in Holyrood or Westminster week after week and spell out the message that Scotland’s voice will be heard, that Scotland will have a choice, that Scotland is not leaving the EU etc in the face of the hooray henries of the opposition? Could you do it?
Yes it takes courage, yes it takes stoicism, but the problem is it is all unnecessary courage and stoicism. Or correction, it is only necessary if you have chosen a strategy to favour an ephemeral democratic mandate over the absolute binary definition of sovereignty.
The simple truth is Westminster can, and does, cock it’s leg on Scottish democracy with apparent impunity. All this talk of holding Westminster to account is delusional, not because Westminster asserts the fallacy that the UK is one Nation, but because Scotland allows that narrative to prevail as the ‘established’ and settled truth when we ought to bellowing “foul” at the top of our lungs.
I accept that a firm assertion of Scottish Sovereignty might indeed “scare some of the horses” who are borderline YES/NO, but those are the breaks. Sovereignty is a binary option. You either are sovereign, or you are not. You do not have the luxury of turning it on and off like a tap on a democratic whim. That ISN’T how it works.
The timidity I refer to is that democracy is the easy way out, to defer the difficult decision onto the people but then continually deny the people the opportunity to make that decision, while the SNP prevaricates and hopes that outrage over Brexit will swell support for Independence without any help from the SNP.
Scotland is a sovereign Nation WITH OR WITHOUT a democratic mandate.
We have had over three years of this paucity of action, and yet ultimately, this latest “squabble” about a Section 30 Agreement is precisely the same Constitutional dispute which was staring us in the face the morning after the Brexit Referendum. Who is sovereign over Scotland? Some of us think that’s a question we shouldn’t even be asking.
All roads lead to Constitutional Sovereignty.
It simply isn’t correct to frame a referendum as the only legal route to Independence, and that strategy does a grievous disservice to Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution.
Yesterday or the day before, I paraphrased Neville Chamberlains speech from 1939….
“This morning the
British AmbassadorScottish First Minister inBerlinEdinburgh handed theGermanWestminster Government a final note stating that, unless we heard from them by 11 o’clock that they were prepared at once towithdraw their troops from Polandabandon Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation and undemocratic removal from Europe, a state ofwarUnion would cease to exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country isat warno longer in a state of Union withGermanyEngland.“I wasn’t being facetious. There are times of crisis when a sovereign democracy under great peril simply has to act. When clear that appeasement had failed, Neville Chamberlain didn’t prevaricate, stacking up a backlog of assorted mandates, and wringing it’s hands unable to act before before holding a referendum in
1939, 1940,1941.Scotland is now weeks away from being drummed out of Europe. If that doesn’t qualify as a true-blue, tick all boxes, National Emergency, then what does? Scotland’s only recourse is a referendum? No it bloody well isn’t. Scotland is defended by a Sovereign Constitution and International Laws designed to prevent acts of Colonial subjugation, but our access to lawful justice is being held in abeyance by our own Scottish Government which seems persuaded we are not sovereign, and can only become sovereign in a ‘democratic’ lottery where our enemies write the rules, indoctrinate our thinking and falsify the narrative.
We have been appeasing Tory Party Brexit Aggression threatening Scotland’s economic viability for over three years and it has gotten us precisely nowhere. We are running out of time, and we urgently need multiple red line ultimatums for Westminster to fail, which put the UK Union in immediate existential jeopardy.
When it comes, it will come at us fast. We will NEVER have another opportunity like Brexit which loads the Constitutional scales of justice so heavily in Scotland’s favour. NEVER!!!
The argument has been proposed above that the UK could abuse supporters of Scottish independence and the whole independence movement in any way it liked if the EU, or any official within the EU (‘our European friends’ as B. Johnson keeps calling them, were ever to make any kind of statement about what might happen if Scotland became an independent country.
That does not seem to me to hold up.
Surely the UK, like the US, frequently makes statements about the internal affairs of other countries.
Not only does it make statements about these other countries’ internal affairs, it even meddles in them directly. That is, the UK quite often takes some form of action in order to influence these internal affairs.
Not only does it ‘meddle directly’ in this manner, but sometimes even intervenes militarily, or encourages – aids and abets – others to do the same.
So does the USA. So does France. So does Russia. So does just about everyone who can. Think of Syria …
Making statements about other countries, including statements about what is happening within them, is part of international diplomacy. Compared to other forms of intervention – ranging from imposing economic sanctions to military intervention, making statements is the least intrusive form of making a point to the other government about the way it is running its country.
The UN also makes statements, for instance when a country is involved in what those at the UN perceive to be abuses of human rights. If the UK were indeed to abuse independence-supporting Scots in any way whatsoever because of what someone else outside the UK says about the matter, the UK can expect a barrowload of criticism from all kinds of quarters, not just from the EU, or from some individual or other associated with the EU’s institutions.
In fact, if the UK were to act like that, support for independence within Scotland would surely rise considerably, as would support for it internationally. I know Westminster is now in the hands of / under the control of ‘the very foolish’, but … would they really be so foolish as to act in that way?
I doubt it,
But if they really were to prove so foolish, maybe the answer would be to resurrect that once-famous remark from one of those many long-forgotten former so-called ‘leaders’ of the Labour Party who shone rather dully and only momentarily at Holyrood before they were summarily removed (i.e. when the Wendy-house soon afterwards came crashing down): ‘Bring it on’!
It wouldn’t do us any harm. In fact, nothing but good …
Why do we usually talk of Scotland gaining independence? It makes it sound as if an exam or test has to be passed. It sounds vaguely as if some kind of supplication is required.
Shouldn’t we instead speak of Scotland resuming independence?
It sounds like cool self-assurance. Which is what we need. It’s what indy supporters now have in abundance. AUOB and all that.
Back to the ‘toon…
Can someone with appropriate contacts suggest to the SNP group at Westmonster that when BawJaws next gets to his feet for PMQs, every one of them whips out their mobile and start attending to their list of groceries whilst talking amongst themselves. Show the individual and the institution the contempt they utterly deserve.
robertknight @ 5:53
Great idea Robert.
Was Johnson playing Indy Crush on his mobile?
Robertknight@5.35
Do they have the balls to do this? (its a brilliant idea),but I doubt it very much.
If they did? they would gain media attention for all the right reasons, media coverage you couldn’t buy, but I suspect they will just go along as the limp tail being controlled by the worst Government ever.
The limp poodles, may be a better name for the party, and before any accusations of being a troll e.tc, I am a life long SNP supporter and member, who is becoming more pissed off daily by the lack of back bone. I have posted many times, the party should be No More Mr Nice Guy, as being polite e.tc gets you nowhere in Westminster, the proof is there for all to see.
Breeks at 541pm,
Excellent posting. That is EXACTLY the arguments in a nutshell. We should NOT be even ‘asking permission’, and you are right, this is a national emergency, yet the SNP seem to have just accepted it is a fait accompli, that it is going to happen, rather than stand up for Scotland.
I do not understand this pathetic nonsense they keep coming out with. Scotland is about to be forcibly dragged out of the EU by England, wholly against its wishes, and to the detriment of its people welfare and economy, and the SNP say’ oh well’.
And here’s the other point about all of this. It sets a precedent. It means that in future England can do whatever it freaking well pleases to Scotland, and all the SNP will do in return is make negative comments. They have done this with impunity, so why should they stop there???
As I have posted many times before, where is the freaking outrage by the FM? where is the anger? Where is the fury at the tawdry abusive treatment being dished out to Scotland?
Every day, in every interview, on any subject, it is this abuse by London which should be cited over and over and over again, and again, and again by the SNP. All other Scotgov business should have been stopped months ago, to focus on how to prevent Scotland being dragged out of the EU against its wishes, but no, the SNP are just plodding on as usual. No urgency. No outrage. It will not do. It seems to the SNP leadership, it is just business as usual. And this is not ‘usual’. This is NOT NORMAL, and no other country in the world would have a government that would tolerate it for even one second.
It is utterly, utterly, pathetic. I am furious that I will be forcibly stripped of my EU citizenship by England and its utter lying bas***d prime minister. Absolutely furious.
To Nicola Sturgeon, I say this, you have had mandate after mandate after mandate, and just a few days ago, the Scottish voters gave you A NEW MANDATE with 80% of all Scottish parliamentary seats, yet still you dither over a freaking section 30???? Has the section 30 even actually been formally requested yet? Why haven’t you even called the indyref?? What gives? Seriously, what gives? GET ON WITH IT.
Scot Finlayson
You mean this story?
“NEWS 1st August 2014 Endura boss: I’ll move part of company out of Scotland if there’s Yes vote”
http://archive.is/DJNXd
If Johnson persists in denying Scotland’s right to a S30, then the Scottish government must, in whatever manner possible seek intervention from the EU. The EU has already intervened in Spains affairs regarding the Catalan indy vote of 2017.
International voices are required if Johnson continues to deny the sovereign people of Scotland the right to choose their future in a democratic process.
Scotland has a lot to offer the EU and vice versa, they know 62% of folk voted to remain in the EU, and access to our fishing waters alone will easily see the EU fast track Scotland back in again if we leave first before the indyref.
Re postal votes in 2014
no exit polls either
http://www.thescottishstandard.scot/scottish-politics/the-postal-ballot-at-the-scottish-independence-referendum-fraud
It’ll be the same for indyref2 – unless something is done beforehand
well said Capella @6.42 – winging (whinging?) moaners the lot of them
Nothing to add to the fight against the Tories for Independence
What a waste
Ipsos Mori conducted the exit poll for GE 2019, paid for by BBC/ITV/Sky. Cost £300,000.
There was no exit poll for indyref1. There was no exit poll for EU-Ref either.
Breeks says:
22 December, 2019 at 12:37 pm
Bollocks. You see before a Scottish Legal system and Religious orthodoxy which only exists at all by the same Constitution which describes the Scottish people as sovereign. We have discernible culture, traditions, history and heritage, not to mention geographical borders and territories which define what Scotland is, and predate the mendacious contrivance of the 1707 Union.
Do not look for holes in our Constitution . . .
The bollocks, my dear Breeks, is all yours. There is no Scottish constitution with any legal legitimacy I am afraid. There is a draft Scottish constitution, but for it to have any legal validity we need to be independent.
I for one am thoroughly tired of this little fantasy of yours that you have been banging on about for the last two years or more on here. There is no ‘constitutional’ route to independence that would either stand up in court or be recognised by the international community.
All this pish about UDI, about a legal route, a constitutional route is all just that, pish, and it is time someone said it so I am.
The route to Scottish independence is first to get the Scottish people to show that they want it, that they are hungry for it. Hovering around 50% in the opinion polls does not cut it, we need more. Westminster’s intransigence will hopefully do that job for us.We should be assisting that with marches, with billboards, with YES hubs in every town in Scotland, with public meetings, with subscriptions to the National, with practical grassroots things.
Waiting for someone to wave a magical constitutional wand will result in us eventually disappearing up our own miserable cringing kilted woad-covered assholes. Stop fantasising and start proposing some practical things real people can be doing.
@ Robert Louis
Excellent post. Pity the current SNP can’t show the commitment to Scottish independence as they did to ‘stop Brexit’, or certain other matters. Ive been saying it – they are dancing to a tune but its not the one the Scottish folk are playing to them
LOOK
A quarter of the NO voters are English people living in Scotland , they won’t change
A quarter are Tory voters , they won’t change
A quarter are Lib Dem voters they won’t change
And a quarter are Labour voters who will and are changing to YES
Anything over 50% is fine
50.01 ?
LOOK
A quarter of the NO voters are English people living in Scotland , they won’t change
A quarter are Tory voters , they won’t change
A quarter are Lib Dem voters they won’t change
And a quarter are Labour voters who will and are changing to YES
Anything over 50% is fine
50.01 ?
@ Terence Callachan
Its not that simple. You can be wilfully blind if you want to – but you are mistaken if you think there arent moderate indy supporters who would rather stick with the UK they know than the progressive caliphate under SNP/green Woko Haram. Progressive politics bleeds support the further they push
AND
Do not trust polls
None of them are trustworthy
Where do you think they get their money from ?
The people that bank roll them don’t do it for free
They expect something in return
And they get it
Polls keep all their old records
They know who votes what and why
And they know those who never change their vote
And they include the right number of those never change people to get the result they want
Colin Alexander@6.29
Up until Endura came out with that line, I regularly purchased/ promoted their products, I have not purchased/ promoted an Endura product since that moment.
Just watched an old programme on YouTube called Never Mind The Baubles, its about the Pistols and the rise against the establishment in 1977.
Oh how we need the Pistols now.
Wee Ginger Dog way better than this site
What is the point of Wings?
Terence Callachan, would you care to back up your very dodgy statistics with evidence?
A quarter of the NO voters are English people living in Scotland , they won’t change
So let’s look at this one for starters.
Firstly, less than a quarter of the Scottish electorate are English. So even if they all voted NO that would be less than a quarter of NO voters (two million at the 2014 referendum)
Secondly, only 75% of them voted NO last time.
Thirdly, there is considerable evidence, albeit largely anecdotal, to suggest that the percentage of YES voters among English Scots would be substantially higher in Indyref2
So I call bullshit,l bullshit and bullshit on this claim for starters.
Now provide links/evidence to show that 0% of LibDem voters support independence, because I call bullshit on this as well.
And lastly, a certain (small) percentage of Tory voters also voted YES in 2014, so I call bullshit on that as well.
The polls are under severe scrutiny, including from our own side. They are more accurate than you appear to think.
There is no way there is ever going to be another referendum until opinion polls consistently show over 50% for independence. You may not like that, but it is a fact. It is also a fact that it would be pointless holding any referendum while the polls indicate 50% at best in favour.
We cannot afford to gamble again.
So take your negative bullshit and stick it where the sun don;t shine.
SURE
BJ is confident , overconfident
That’s because he has
The corrupt BBC on his side
The corrupt STV on his side
Thee corrupt newspapers on his side
The corrupt radio stations on his side
The corrupt polls on his side
BUT
Who isn’t aware of all that corruption now ?
Nobody
Even those who support the NO side acknowledge the corruption but now they just call it
Britain protecting British interests
They ignore the fact that Scotland is part of Britain
They ignore the fact that Scotland’s interests are not being protected
It’s do or die now
There is no going back for Scotland
Scottish people who voted NO in 2014 can never go back to the Scotland they held dear prior to 2014
From here on it’s either Scottish Independence
OR
Scotland becomes what BJ and his cohorts believe it is which is a part of England
There are a majority of us now who will vote for Scottish independence
That’s why they are delaying agreement to a Scottish independence referendum
They hope that more EU people will leave
I’m sure the Westminster government has a few changes to legislation up theirs sleeve to
try and reduce the numbers who vote YES
And try and increase the numbers who vote NO
But it will take longer than they have available to get their job done
Scottish independence will happen 2020
Delay delay delay by BJ and we will just bypass him
We then get dependence minus England’s cooperation which means cagey prolonged negotiations thereafter but so what
The will for Independence s stronger
cadogan Enright says:
22 December, 2019 at 8:30 pm
Wee Ginger Dog way better than this site
What is the point of Wings?
I know how you feel, but some of us – those of us who are not yet banned, that is – are trying to refute the tide of bullshit that is sweeping this once mighty organ.
terence callachan says:
22 December, 2019 at 8:32 pm
Scottish independence will happen 2020
Delay delay delay by BJ and we will just bypass him
HOW will we bypass him? You are full of bullshit.
and . . . you do understand that after a successful independence referendum there will be a substantial period of negotiation and setting in place of systems, don;t you? It will not happen next year, even if we win a legally binding referendum.
You are like a child.
cadogan Enright at 8:30 pm
“Wee Ginger Dog way better than this site
What is the point of Wings?”
It’s a place where sanctimonious prices can come to display their superiority over the unwashed.
The point of wings is we have a fair and just like minded man who had the
Vision, the skills and the resolve to take on the might of the corrupt English
Empire and show them for what they are regardless of the risks and the below
Average pay scale.
More recently I have had an alternative view on certain matters than the Rev but
For what he has done and achieved I would defend him to the death.
He has shown me the UK reality for the first time, shown
Me lies, the deceit and distortion that the UK media refuses us access to.
I take these negative comments posted as yet another attempt to remove
A very large thorn from Westminster’s side.
Je suis Rev Stuart!
Don’t you mean pricks? If it’s a duck..
Bojo is putting his faith in a brand new one nation written constitution – shutting Scotland down for good
I have a hunch that the SNP mandarins are well aware that the referendum route is an utter waste of time, but for one factor and one factor only…
The more BawJaws gets irritated by these bloody Jocks who won’t shut up and behave like the loyal and obedient North Britons he’d like them to be, the more the mask slips to show him and his Government for the little Englanders they are, and the more voters in Scotland will come around to Yes.
The SNP can keep pushing his buttons and in doing so use him as the most effective Recruiting Sergeant for Indy.
That leaves the 2021 elections at Holyrood as the means of obtaining Indy – a single issue manifesto leading to over 50% of seats AND over 50% of votes cast seals it.
One Scot
Posting from a crappy old device, & yes.
You got it anyway!
Just popped in to say how rubbish you are. Speaks for itself really.
I hope that CE is a nom de guerre
@ Cadogan Enright
He’s honest, respects basic civil rights, is only moderately woke, most of all – the etablishment want to shut him up. That makes him both a real presence and genuine imo
Not everyone who no longer posts here has been banned. Many are just fed up of the criticisms of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon, plus the focus on the transgender issue and wokism.
I keep reading BTL for the few posters who continue to post who have something positive to say. I can’t be bothered with the whingers. Plus I agree with Stu that Trans Activism is a serious attack on women’s civil rights and that the SNP are mad to allow these people to dominate their policy.
Some day, Stu will return to the kind of journalism which inspired so many to join the YES movement. It would help if the SNP publicly dealt with their woke division. Reinstate Neale Hanvey and Denise Findlay for example. Soon, I hope.
@ defo
Cadogan Enright exists; I’ve met him. He’s a councillor in Northern Ireland.
If he prefers Wee Ginger Dug, no-one is compelling him to come here.
I think this point of view is correct
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/12/yes-winning-independence-will-require.html
If as Stuart himself has intimated, this site will become increasingly more about transgender self id than Scotland’s self determination then Cadogan may have a point.
The point being tha site may become more about the specific issue of transgender id than Scottish independence.
He not reverend for nothing I presume.
Cyprus government documents seen by Reuters show that Conservative Party donors have sought citizenship of the island, an EU member state, since Britain voted to leave the bloc in 2016.
They include billionaire Alan Howard, one of Britain’s best-known hedge fund managers, and Jeremy Isaacs, the former head of Lehman Brothers for Europe, the Middle East and Asia. Cyprus’ interior ministry recommended that both men’s applications be approved, the government documents show.
(Reuters) – British Prime Minister Boris Johnson won a thumping election victory last week on a campaign to “get Brexit done,” but not before some wealthy donors to his Conservative Party quietly took steps to stay inside the European Union.
ONCE IN A GENERATION:
Regarding the once in a generation line being used by the British Imperials this article confirms it was Alex Salmond’s personal opinion only.
As to what he meant by a political generation:
around 18 years.
http://archive.is/iystz
HeraldScotland.com 14th September 2014
Mr Salmond told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “Harold Wilson famously (said) one vote is enough in a referendum but we’re not aiming to win by one vote, we’re aiming to achieve a substantial majority if we can.”
He added: “If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland – there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That’s what I mean by a political generation.
“In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland.”
Asked if he could pledge not to bring back another referendum if the Yes campaign does not win on Thursday, he said: “That’s my view. My view is this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime, opportunity for Scotland.”
“IT IS JUST MY OPINION”. “That’s my view”.
Referendums Bill passed Scottish Parliament on 19th Dec. Opponents have 28 days to lodge a formal protest after which time it will gain Royal Assent and become Law.
This Bill of course is generic and covers all future referendums on any subject, so is difficult to challenge.
Once it is passed, I expect the ScotGov to proceed to naming an indy date as the next step, with or without a S30 order. At that time there may be a legal challenge.
No matter what though, it will be very difficult for Bojo to get a comprehensive FTA with the EU as they will be unable to obtain agreement over Scotland assets whilst independence is a possibility.
CA @ 11:10pm
Re: “Once in a Generation”
18 years could be cited as a generation, and it may be fair to say that is reasonable, BUT only if there was NO change in circumstances and the UK kept muddling along in the same vein as before. That is clearly NOT the case.
It could also be cited as 7years. The Good Friday Agreement requires 7 years to elapse between referendums before another can be called.
So IMHO if there is NO change in circumstances then 7 years would be a reasonable time frame in which to ask the question again.
However there has been a considerable change in circumstances and so having a Referendum in 2020 is a no brainer from a timing perspective.
If it is lost however it will be 7 years before another and you can be sure that Bojo will move to have Scotland “cemented” in to the UK as Michael Gove stated in his interview a few weeks ago.
@ Effigy
Cyprus is a place to register if you have financial business to carry out without the usual financial oversight. Its why all the most untrustworthy stock brokers register there to run their business
LAZY
@ Scotsrenewables 10.57am I have noticed you on here recently rubbishing everything that the rev says and insisting he gets back to writing about the indy cause , only this morning you are asking about him running an indy poll and if not why not
And asking where is the Scottish version of led by donkeys putting up billboards across the country
I’ll reverse that to you where are the SNP polls to indicate the indy preference , where is the refuting group to demolish the lies being spouted DAILY , where are the updates from the progress group , why are the majority of SNP interviewees on television and radio NOT demolishing the GERS figures why are they not highlighting that the 7% supposed deficit is due to the wastemonster govts allocation of money spent on our behalf , why does our FM allow this assertion without challenge
You have been on this site for a long time and are well aware of the work Stu has put in on our drive for independence , funnily enough if the SNP hadn’t introduced this divisive reprehensible policy hated by many then he would have more time to CONCENTRATE on indy business
There is an easy answer to your conundrum
Demographics ! Demographics !Demographics !
The NO Majority in the 2014 IndyRef was 400,000 !
In the years following up to 2019 GE over 400,000 Scots, mainly elderly who bought newspapers and watched the BBC, liked the royals, have died, sadly they believed all of them !
The Electoral Register is now topped up with 400,000 young folk (Scotland’s population is basically flat lining) who don’t buy papers apart from the odd one the check the football bits, only watch an odd bit of BBC more into Sky movies, Netflix and firestick. As for the royals, they don’t see the point of all that Ruritanian medieval pomp !
All young folk nowadays are now extremely social media savvy !
So the Demographics has shifted dramatically, the future and the young folk are joined together, as it should be they are voting for a real and meaningful for themselves and their children !
In addition there are well over 100,000 Plus EU citizens who’s wish is to stay and work within the EU Community !
In the case of the Scottish WASPI women is their fight over ?
The UK Pension has the worst terms and conditions in Europe, are the Scottish Pensioners happy with a Widow’s Mite ?
The Unionist cause is at an end in Scotland !
The demographics also apply to the young people in Northern Ireland !
How does the 400,000 NO majority look like in 2020 ?????
The phrase “Yer jaiket’s oan a shoogly peg” comes to mind !
This downfall of tory unionism/colonialism has come about despite total control of the Press and TV/Radio. Amazing what the Sovereign Folk of Scotland can achieve !
ScotsRenewables says:
22 December, 2019 at 7:29 pm
The bollocks, my dear Breeks, is all yours. There is no Scottish constitution with any legal legitimacy I am afraid. There is a draft Scottish constitution, but for it to have any legal validity we need to be independent.
Then you are a fool, and you would throw away the very essence and definition of Scotland because you choose to believe the narrative that the British Indoctrination has taught you, and you are now a domesticated Scot, ready to forfeit your freedom willingly.
Please tell me. From where, specifically, does Scots Law draw it’s origin and authority? You know, the Scots Law that recently bound the UK Prime Minister to a decision in the Court of Session to Un-prorogue Parliament on the principle that the executive is answerable to the people? Or would you have us believe Scots Law too doesn’t really exist?
“The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.” R.B. Cunninghame Graham.
May I wish everyone a joyful Christmas , whatever your religious or belief, and a happy, healthy 2020.
May Scotland prosper and unchain the unicorn.
religion or belief!
Christmas spirit alive and well – no headlines about anti-semitism and the southern general hospital suddenly no problems that need to lead the bbc Scottish news – amazing!!! (Unfortunately people will always get infections and some will even die in hospital but it must not be used as a weapon to demonise all the wonderful people who work tirelessly to give us health care.)
Happy and joyful Christmas to all.
Nollaig chridheil agus bliadhna mhath ùr dhan a h-uile duine…Glaid 3uil & Guid Neu 3eir te aa!
and next year in freedom.
Vive l’Écosse!
Bring it on 2020!
How the heck did Bruce Forsyth manage to host the Generation Game every sodding weekend without howls from disgruntled folk complaining it should only be on once every ..X.. years!
For anyone playing the “Once in a Generation” whack-a-mole game with anti-democracy idiots… Here’s your bat.
45secs of Buffalo Gal Ruth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYjzqrRQ-rU
Fucking hell Breeks, stop wittering gibberish and just explain to us simpletons what laws will be used and how in order to gain independence without a vote.
While you are at it, perhaps you can explain how the 49% – 51‰ of Scots who don’t currently support us are going to be convinced that what they have been subjected to is in any way democratic and not just a legal trick.
If you can do that then I am sure we will all get behind you and start cheering
If you can’t do that then STFU and get with the programme, at the moment you are just making an annoying noise.
Hey Troops, We are all on the same team here.
Here’s a fun wee quiz for folks to take. I shamefully got the grand total of 3 out of 10 correct. All the other 7 answers i underestimated by selecting the one down from the correct answer: https://www.businessforscotland.com/
There are probably two main ways of establishing the union is over:
1. Referendum of the people
followed by
2. Declaration of the elected representatives of the people
or
1. Declaration of the elected representatives of the people
followed by
Referendum of the people
——————————————-
Can the Union be undermined without officially ending it?
Was the Parliament of Scotland legally dissolved by Royal Proclamation? Can it be legally reconvened as Scotland’s “sovereign” parliament if it was never legally dissolved?
If the Parliament of Scotland was reconvened by Scotland’s MPs and so again had sovereign power FOR SCOTLAND, it could veto every piece of legislation from WM that affects Scotland. The basic reason (for England) for the Union would be over, without ending the Union.
What was the basic purposes of the Union? The Kingdom of England gained political control of Scotland. Scotland gained access to England trade and to its colonies.
How long do you think England would want the Union if it were a trading union without England having political control over Scotland?
I’m not suggesting this as an alternative to indy. It’s just another possible string to the bow?
Need a good laugh, then John Robertson is your man,
https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2019/12/23/leading-media-academic-says-slimmed-down-bbc-scotland-news-should-move-to-tory-hq-when-licence-fee-is-abolished/
Richard Murphy’s excellent article on the nonsense of GERS being wheeled out by the FT to argue against a second referendum. Well stated arguments:
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/12/23/the-failing-english-elite-cant-get-its-head-around-scottish-independence-let-alone-the-economics-that-supports-it/
As I have said before if they are so sure of their gers figures why did they hide the Macrone report???
In other news today, since most future deployments of British troops are going to be supporting dictatorships in the Arabian Gulf states Dominic Cummings plans to help the Armed Forces “cut their cloth to suit their ambitions” by only providing the money for t-shirts, shorts and sandals. Sun screen and other luxuries will need to be provided by the soldiers themselves: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50864917
Defence Secretary, Ben Wallace, said in statement from the Ministry Of Dunces: “We need to create a more agile military. Clearly that heavy clothing and equipment is going to slow them down. So I’m also happy to announce we are going to upgrade the equipment of the Royal Tank Regiment and replace the Challenger 2 Battle Tank with camels.
I heard the BBC Scottish news last night every item was bad news except the last one they never mention that Scotland has all the benefits that the rest of the U.K. Would love to have Thanks to the SNP Scotland is the best country in the U K to live in but the BBC try to make it appear the worst I wonder why maybe it is because they are ordered to but most of their commontators do it with a will and a smile sad sad people money must be their God
Don’t have much to add to GRA etc; but thought I’d mention the obvious legislation “outlawing” Public bodies membership of BDS (Boycott Divestment Sanctions) seen as if not anti-semitic at least anti-Israeli. It rang a definite bell (see link)
The next logical step is applying this to employees of public bodies, and then generally applying to anything perceived as anti-Israel (not just BDS)
However, that thin end of the wedge, is easily levered to require public employees to sign pro-Israeli pledges.
Much like GRA – one’s job will be at risk if the line is not toed. May we look forward to employees signing GRA pledges also?
Let’s face it, the Tories are merely an extension of US policy and this article from last year, will let you decide if my musings are hyberbole.
https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/israel-texas-anti-bds-law/
stoker
Did the quiz and was amazed at the results.
Strange that the SNP are not firing these stats when interviewed as this is the kind of stuff that will sway people towards indy.