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Nick Clegg signs a pledge

Posted on August 05, 2014 by

So everyone will believe THAT’s definitely going to happen, then.

pledge

We can’t imagine the cold-sweat terror the No campaign must be experiencing about tonight’s televised debate if they’ve decided that their big pre-debate gambit is going to be Nick Clegg signing a pledge.

liarclegg

It’s a fascinating document. Let’s check out some highlights.

“Power lies with the Scottish people and we believe it is for the Scottish people to decide how Scotland is governed.”

For some reason they’ve forgotten to include “except in any of the really important areas, like foreign policy, welfare policy and control of its own revenues” in that sentence. A mere careless oversight, we’re sure.

“We support a strong Scottish Parliament in a strong United Kingdom and we support the further strengthening of the Parliament’s powers. 

The three parties delivered more powers for Holyrood through the Calman Commission which resulted in the Scotland Act 2012.”

Again, a typesetting error appears to have accidentally omitted the words “but barely two years on we’re telling you that the Calman Commission got it wrong and actually didn’t give Scotland all the powers it needed. We’ll totally get it right THIS time, though, honest”. Unfortunate, but these things happen.

Come to think of it, maybe that’s what happened with tuition fees.

liarclegg

“We now pledge to strengthen further the powers of the Scottish Parliament, in particular in the areas of fiscal responsibility and social security.”

“Fiscal responsibility” isn’t a power. Deciding policy is a power. And no actual social-security powers will be devolved, because nobody has the faintest idea how housing benefit (the only one anyone’s actually suggested) could possibly be disentangled from Universal Credit in Scotland, when welfare is still controlled by Westminster and the entire point of Universal Credit is to roll all benefits into one system.

It’s like saying that you’re going to have people with blue eyes drive on the right-hand side of the road while everyone else still drives on the left, but that you’ll work out the details later and it’ll all be fine.

“We believe that Scotland should have a stronger Scottish Parliament while retaining full representation for Scotland in the UK Parliament.”

Where “full representation” means “a 12% reduction in representation”, of course.

“The Scottish Labour Party, the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party and the Scottish Liberal Democrats have each produced our own visions of the new powers which the Scottish Parliament needs. We shall put those visions before the Scottish people at the next general election”

But much more to the point, they’ll put those visions before the English people, who are the ones who’ll actually decide who forms the next UK government.

“and all three parties guarantee to start delivering more powers for the Scottish Parliament as swiftly as possible in 2015.”

You know, just like when Labour guaranteed to introduce electoral reform, the Tories guaranteed not to raise VAT or embark on top-down restructuring of the NHS and the Lib Dems guaranteed to vote against tuition fee increases.

liarclegg

We’re sure they mean it this time, though.

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    1. 05 08 14 13:13

      Nick Clegg signs a pledge | Scottish Independence News

    2. 06 08 14 01:39

      Daily Docs #62 | Frann Leach

    263 to “Nick Clegg signs a pledge”

    1. Michael Granados says:

      The UK Declaration of Dependence. No Thanks!

    2. Swello says:

      The mock scroll gives certainly gives it gravitas – I’m convinced.

    3. Murray McCallum says:

      Quite fitting that they have written “there shall be more powers” on what appears to be an old, recycled piece of toilet roll.

    4. bookie from hell says:

      Ecclestone went on trial in April on charges of paying a $44-million (33-million-euro) bribe to a BayernLB bank executive for help in maintaining his four-decade grip on Formula One.

      He increased an offer to pay the Bavarian authorities $100 million to settle the case from an initial $36 million last week, according to the daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung.

      #bettertogethertakingnotes

    5. They might just as well offer bags of shiny bright beads.

    6. Defo says:

      Did Rolf do the artwork on the pledge ?

      Timing is everything. Why didn’t they offer this last week/month/year ?

      Why poo poo devo max at the outset ?

      As per, they are assuming the electorate are mugs.
      Big mistake, but they have to try something. This will actually backfire, IMHO

    7. Jim Thomson says:

      Thanks Rev 🙂

      I am clueless as to why they insist in trying to con people over & over & over again. What is there in a (Westminster) politician’s DNA that enables them to be so utterly SHAMELESS?

      Another wee snippet of information for the Wings Over Scotland at Arbroath Sea Fest (Sat/Sun 9th & 10th August) Stall.

      http://www.arbroathseafest.co.uk/

      http://www.facebook.com/arbroathseafest

    8. mary vasey says:

      Absolute piffle from a nobody who has absolutely NO power.

    9. Mike Heinemeier says:

      I hate it when my furniture polish runs out. An empty Pledge.

    10. paul says:

      Unionist liars that is all there is to say.

    11. Luigi says:

      It seems, a last, we found have a worthy successor for that old, popular classic,
      the Maggie Thatcher Bog Roll.

      (I can’t think of any other use for it)!

    12. heedtracker says:

      But LibDem pledge signing includes Scottish Sec State Fozzie Carmichael who said just last week,

      “maintaining a strong UK Government presence north of the Border in the event of a No vote in September would mean the independence question would never be put again and the issue of Scotland’s future would be settled “once and for all” So there.

      A week;s a long time etc

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/carmichael-how-no-vote-will-settle-scotlands-future-once-and-for-all.

    13. Seasick Dave says:

      More fiscal responsibility?

      Hahahaha.

      Good yin.

    14. handclapping says:

      An historic scroll. Yet again the Union shews us that all it can offer is history. They could at least had some armorial seals on it like the Ragman Rolls.

      What is the future in the Union? Is there a future in the Union? Why don’t they tell us?

    15. Training Day says:

      “Again, a typesetting error appears to have accidentally omitted the words “but barely two years on we’re telling you that the Calman Commission got it wrong and actually didn’t give Scotland all the powers it needed. We’ll totally get it right THIS time, though, honest”. Unfortunate.”

      Indeed. It’s this that exposes the scabrous lie at the heart of Unionism and BT. Devolution the settled will of the Scottish people in 1997? It wasn’t? Well, have powers over popguns fifteen years later (but only ‘cos you’ve voted for THEM). That still not enough? Well, years later you can have equally useless ‘powers’, and years after that, even more useless powers, and on and on ad nauseam.

      Anyone who buys into the narrative of rolling, ever-enhanced, ever more shiny powers without the only power that matters – deciding policy – is a fool.

    16. Jimbo says:

      Taking the Scottish natives for fucking idiots.

    17. Luigi says:

      It reeks of panic, but I suppose desperate folk do desperate things. This is a very dangerous stunt for the Labour party in particular. I don’t think that anyone can now seriously deny that BT Labour is in bed with the Tories, conspiring against Scotland. This could backfire spectacularly.

      Always be careful what you sign up for.

    18. TheGreatBaldo says:

      The three parties delivered more powers for Holyrood through the Calman Commission which resulted in the Scotland Act 2012.”

      Any chance Rev of a list of those powers promised by the Calman Commission which were NOT included (for whatever reason) in the Scotland 2012 Act?

      Was the Crown Estates not promised or was that just an SNP request?

      I suspect Eck will enjoy reading out a list of things that were promised by Calman but not actually delivered.

    19. shona louise paton says:

      I like the wee ‘No Thanks’ stamp in the bottom corner, they must have read my mind! 😀

    20. Clegg signs a Pledge.
      BamCam makes his sole MP in Scotland REDUNDANT.
      Mibbeland Lends them Flipper in return for the secession of Scotland to SLAB scabs.

      What`s NOT to like.?

      Horror stories Lie before us.

    21. Minty says:

      Even the BBC didn’t bother reporting this on lunchtime news on Radio Scotland. Really
      Made the big impact that BT were looking for *raises eyebrow*

      Cheered me right up as it just signifies that they are really struggling now.

    22. Nana Smith says:

      Clegg and pledge = piffle & pish.

    23. galamcennalath says:

      As they would say themselves … No Thanks!

      In 2011 they knew there would be an independence referendum, yet they continued with the pathetic Calman project. They had their chance to put together a package then, but didn’t bother. Why? Because they never dreamt so many Scots would go for Independence when asked.

      They’ve run a nasty campaign which has proven one thing more than anything else, they lie and can’t be trusted.

      Basically, they’ve screwed up. Let’s hope it’s too late for them to make any recovery now!

    24. G H Graham says:

      The “Dead Fear Scrolls”

    25. mjaei says:

      I like the way it says ‘No Thanks’ at the bottom of the scroll, as if they’re rejecting the idea that there should be ‘more powers for the Scottish parliament’.

      Also, Rev, where you say:

      ‘But much more to the point, they’ll put those visions before the English people, who are the ones who’ll actually decide who forms the next UK government.’

      maybe you could put a hyperlink somewhere to your page where you show that Scottish votes don’t actually affect the outcome of general elections. Just a suggestion. 😉

    26. Luigi says:

      BT may have just provided the FM with an open goal for tonight’s debate:

      THE DECLARATION OF DEPENDENCE

    27. the unelected house of lords have just taken powers from Scotland,I think they are panicking because of the latest oil find if not why have they not given more powers before

    28. Auld Rock says:

      All just ‘Referendum Rhetoric’ sooner said, sooner forgotten and we all know that the unionists are good at that. They could have presented all these so called ‘promises’ way back and had them included as a question in the Referendum. But no they just wanted ‘YES’ or ‘no’ and now they see the tide running against them they are calling for their ‘brown underpants’.

      Do they really think that we are that dumb that we will believe anything they promise, especially Clegg who we know has FORM on promises signed.

      Vote ‘YES’ and we get all these powers and much, much more.

      Auld Rock

    29. Colin says:

      Don’t they get it?? We want our country back!…..not a bribe!

    30. jim watson says:

      And here was me thinking that Monty Python had done their last show…

      This is as surreal as a banana changing a lightbuld.

    31. FortBill says:

      They really could have saved themselves all of that bother and stress by leaving the third option on the referendum ballot paper, but they didn’t. So why would even the most stupid No voter believe this now?
      Don’t know if I want to hear the reasons you can only cringe so much in one day

    32. KayBee says:

      Hmmm . now how to word this correctly ….. NO THANKS …..

      Far too little …… waaaaaaaaaaaay too late.

      As others have already stated – why remove the devo max from the ballot paper in the first case.

      Need I even comment on ‘promises’ from Westminster – about as much use as a fart in a space suit.

      Lib/Dems could not even keep the promise they made about tuition fees when they were – IN POWER – are we meant to believe they will keep their promises when they have finally become a political non-entity after the next GE – I don’t think so bucko.

      Plus Scottish New Labour must have just recently begun to realise that they have also committed complete political suicide in Scotland by joining sides with the conservatives – laughable.

      That is what S/lab deserve for putting ‘party’ before ‘people’ and hell mend them and good riddance I say.

      As far as conservatives are concerned in Scotland —- hahahahahahaha – no further comment required.

    33. Graeme S says:

      Nice of them to add my response to the bottom right of the scroll in advance. “No Thanks”.

    34. Graeme Doig says:

      Wasn’t expecting one of your satirical pieces on such an important day Stu 😉

    35. Jimmy the Pict says:

      So of the six signatories in this pledges

      3 have no power to change the Scotland ACT

      1 is out of power but hist party is Pledging a “One Nation” Britain

      1 is on record as breaking election pledges when elected
      The last one is a Tory.

      And they all really expect us to believe them.

      Please. Really?

    36. Jimmy the Pict says:

      So of the six signatories in this pledges

      3 have no power to change the Scotland ACT

      1 is out of power but his party is Pledging a “One Nation” Britain

      1 is on record as breaking election pledges when elected
      The last one is a Tory.

      And they all really expect us to believe them.

      Please. Really?

    37. Luigi says:

      I always thought that BT were a wee bit feart of the Scottish referendum, but I never realized until now that they are absolutely terrified.

    38. Macart says:

      Here’s the thing.

      Setting aside the fact that I trust these people about as far as I could chuck a JCB. Just why on earth would I settle for more responsibilities WITHOUT power, when I could have all powers and act responsibly?

      Better yet. These are our own powers of statehood we’re talking about here. They’ve been on loan for three hundred and odd years. WE decide who gets to use them on September 18th not these suits. They dae whit their telt end of and like it.

      What we get to do on that date is decide whether they’ve done a good enough job or whether we feel we can do a better one ourselves. Personally I wouldn’t them and their polluted system to run a piss up in a brewery and I already know we are capable of achieving so much more as a body politic and as a populace. Vote YES and send these liars packing.

    39. Jimmy the Pict says:

      Luigi they are shutting breeze blocks

    40. Jimmy the Pict says:

      Damnation to all predictive text

    41. Robert Peffers says:

      I can only think of two words as a reply to that pledge : –

      AYE!
      RICHT!

    42. Mary Bruce says:

      Is that an official document? “There shall be more powers for the Scottish Parliament” then a No Thanks logo? Lolz.

      Didn’t Lord Forsyth say only a few weeks ago that more devolution would have to be a matter for the whole of the UK and not just Scotland to decide? So let’s just leave it to the rUK electorate to decide what powers we get, eh folks? Or vote yes and get them all.

    43. Jimmy the Pict says:

      Sh!tting breezeblocks

    44. Les Wilson says:

      Well I have one major caveat with this document, where is GOD’s signature, then I might believe, or maybe not…………

    45. panda paws says:

      @G H Graham says

      The “Dead Fear Scrolls”

      I’m totally stealing that.

      Re new “powers”. I’d like to pick what powers I want, not take what ones (unstated) that they feel like giving me. So No Thanks U KOK

    46. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Paul McCartney will suddenly be Top of The Pops in Scotland, tomorrow as well.

      Play the Pipes of Peace

      Enough!

      Move on everybody nothing of any substance here.

      Fiscal Responsibility means, we have the responsibility of collecting their taxes and they decide what to give us back, as before.

      Except we will be forced into adopting more and more austerity measures, food banks, people sleeping on the street, the old infirm and unable will still be marginalised, whilst the fat pigs of Westminster use our money to fund their private pensions funds and future property folios.

      Enough, vote Yes.

    47. heedtracker says:

      BBC in Scotland region trumpeting NEW POWERS! At least they stopped using their tattered old Scotland flag.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28654142

      The last great Baron in Scotland Baron MacQuarrie of unelected jobs for life chaps, will not be amused as real power in Scotland starts to be pulled away from his Pacific Quay orifice and taking the 200 hundred thousand quid a year sinecure with it.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28654142

    48. cynicalHighlander says:

      This document will self destruct on the 19th September 2014.

    49. Michael McCabe says:

      If you are daft we will give you some more powers in 2015 But. If you are Smart you will Vote YES on September 18th and get all the powers you need. What to do. I Think I will Vote Yes.

    50. Luigi says:

      I wonder if Alistair Darling will be daft/desperate enough to wave a copy of this declaration in front of the FM tonight, saying:

      “Look I have here, a signed promise. It’s guaranteed:
      Scotland will get jam tomorrow!”.

    51. boglestone says:

      This is just embarrassing. Vacuous content aside, the mock scroll effect and pompous language is about as convincing as Anas Sarwar’s clip art “Top Secret” stamp.

    52. K1 says:

      They really do think they are talking to wee children, what an utterly patronising and condescending bunch they are. Do they think we haven’t studied their ‘proposals’, that we don’t have the requisite intelligence to see through to the core of the issues involved?

      You have nothing on the table here, you have all lied and connived together to save your own ‘positions’. You have all shown yourselves to be bereft of conscience by attempting to terrify the most vulnerable and threaten the electorate with your fantastical assertions and world class manipulations of the facts.

      Your time is nearly up. You have underestimated the people of Scotland. We have our chance and we will take it. And you will weep at the faith we have in ourselves and the courage we have shown in the face of such insulting and disgraceful tactics.

      You people learn nothing from history.

    53. Big Del says:

      ” WE pledge to give North Britain more powers. They will be TAX raising powers while we scrap the Barnett formula, making Scotland a place where no company will want to invest, give us somewhere to park our nukes and destroy Scotland once and for all”.

      Signed

      Wasteminster

      PS – Destroy this ” FLIPPING” un-trustworthy wasteminster man tonight Alex.

    54. Colin Church says:

      But we generate enough revenue, even without the new oil, to run our own country. Why would we need tax raising responsibility if not because of a cut to the block grant? We are a net contributor not a charity case. Are we to be the only country to be robbed of independence twice, TWICE, coincident with a black gold bonus.

    55. Luigi says:

      Paul McCartney will suddenly be Top of The Pops in Scotland, tomorrow as well.

      Play the Pipes of Peace

      Maybe he could adjust another old song of his:

      Give Scotland back to the Scottish

    56. Chris G says:

      Find it fitting it has a wee No Thanks in the bottom corner.

      Its almost like their trying to tell us something….!

    57. bjsalba says:

      This must be a hoax, surely.

      Even they cannot be that stupid, can they?

      Oh, sorry, I momentarily forgot, they are.

    58. EphemeralDeception says:

      Did someone score out Johanns signature? 😉

      ‘We will deliver a Stringer Scottish Parliament in Stronger United kingdom’.

      Looks like a clause to me. The UK is not getting stronger (Nothing changes at a UK level), so neither is the Scottish parliament.

    59. heedtracker says:

      Oops! http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7750-bbc-scotland-questioned-over-p5m-funding-for-referendum-spend

      A big fat vote BBC con in action. It’s the greatest most terrible and scary decision of their lives, so let’s hire trainees to do the explaining n shit. And it’s trainees that will do exactly as the last Baron of the Scotland region says, if they want their traineeship to actually lead to a BBC job for life, like MacQuarrie ‘s, £200, grand to keep your UKOK nose clean and you too could be investigating/white washing the next BBC paedo horror, back at their sparkly new £1.5 billion London office.

    60. Graeme Doig says:

      Just got ‘Scotland’s Future’ through the door. Like many of you was maybe hoping for something hard hitting. Think it could have exposed some bt lies but on the whole a reasonable ‘positive ‘ message.
      Got hmg at the same time. It was wrapped inside a pizza advert. Free pizza if we vote no ?

    61. BamCam,Clegg and Mibbeland.?

      THEY are like a firm of dodgy builders :-

      “Hazel, Wattle and Dobb ” (daub??)

      Kicking Kittens for Kareers and zero hour Kontractors as Kitsch Kowboy Kairn Katchers.?

      Krash and Kipper Flipper Kannae Sign-up. Kute. *unts.

    62. Luigi says:

      Even they cannot be that stupid, can they?

      Who knows?

      One thing I am absolutely certain of, however:

      The people of Scotland are not.

    63. Helena Brown says:

      Sorry I checked this morning, got the hand mirror out and no certainly no buttons up the back of my head. I am old enough to remember 1979, sorry Davie, Nick and Ed so you can take yer fancy wee scroll and stick it where the sun don’t shine, though in your cases it very well might.

    64. ronnie anderson says:

      And they laboured hard over many days, and many nights,

      but at last the Tablets we,re inscribed in Stone, and

      behold they we’re delivered to the mulitude, and they’re

      eyes we’re cast down,as we’re the Tablets broken, ground

      down as dust, and Blowing In The Wind.And the answer My

      Friends, is they are no friends of ours.

    65. Helena Brown says:

      Graeme Doig, we did too, and the one that the Westminster lot produced with the family hill walking, we also got the Bitter together lot yesterday, no idea what that said, my paper bin was out and it lasted all of the time it took the poor Postie to put it in the door for it to be out again.

    66. Norman Martin says:

      Aye right. Former PM Lord Hume screwed this one up for them. Never forget and baws tae this.

    67. Michael says:

      It looks like one of these mocked up scrolls you get in a novelty shop. What kind of total feckin idiots do these people think the Scottish people are? Don’t they understand how clearly this demonstrates their contempt for the country’s voters?

    68. TD says:

      Minty

      “Cheered me right up as it just signifies that they are really struggling now.”

      Glad you are cheered up. Of course they have been struggling at an intellectual level since the campaign started. We can see that in their tactics – project fear, blatant lies, smear campaigns. If they had good arguments, they would use them, but they don’t. So this “pledge” (don’t they get it that people don’t trust them) is just the latest attempt to con people.

      The only way to deal with a con is to expose it. Alex Salmond will, I am sure, do that tonight, but we all need to keep exposing all the confidence tricks that they are using in their attempt to dupe the Scottish people. The trouble with cons is that people get taken in by them. We need to make sure that a majority are not.

      We must never become complacent just because we see them putting forward weak or stupid arguments. They could lose the argument, but win the referendum.

    69. Brian Powell says:

      Again and again it should be pointed out that not even this feeble document happened because of people who were saying no.

    70. Edward says:

      Love this article in ‘OilandGasPeople.com’ relating what is a sarcastic Yes Highland story on Cameron’s Shetland visit

      http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/987/worlds-largest-oil-field-not-found-the-mystery-surrounding-the-prime-ministers-shetland-visit/

    71. Helena Brown says:

      Alistair Carmichael for all he is a complete idiot was telling the truth when he said that Scotland will be punished for the effrontery for deciding to leave this ahem Union. Nick Clegg and Johann Lamont and David Cameron are all proved liars. Why on earth would anyone believe a word they say. Who cares what Ed the red says, he will not be in power either.

    72. msean says:

      Just a realignment of the same more powers stuff,it’s all they have. What about offering irrevocable control of broadcasting in Scotland amongst other things for instance? Independence is the only way to revitalise Scotland.

    73. Helena Brown says:

      Meant considering to leave the Union, memo need to proof read.

    74. Macandroid says:

      If Alasdair says he has the Scrolls Alex can hand him some witch hazel and a scrubbing brush and say “this should shift them Alasdair”.

    75. alastair seago says:

      And whatever tax you decide upon we will adjust the Barnet formula accordingly so you end up with the same or less money than you have now.Of course we can’t guarantee that our MP’s won’t vote against any of this in Parliament or that we won’t take back these powers in a couple of years as the House of lords did recently re energy.

    76. tinchick says:

      I only wish I could show some of these comments my love.

    77. Elizabeth says:

      O/t

      Re tonight’s debate, Craig Murray has a scary piece on the YouGov poll for STV which comes out just prior to the kick off . Really worth a read!!

      http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/08/liveblogging-the-great-debate/#comment-471435

      This was highlighted on twitter by Peter Curran (Moridura)

    78. Nice to to see the ‘wee no marks’ managed to get their Dad’s to countersign the note; (to give it more creedence for the Jock’s you see).

    79. Robert Peffers says:

      All we need now is Cam the bam walking on, stage left, with a sandwitch board bearing the legend,

      “THE END OF THE WORLD IS NEIGH”

      http://arthopper.org/street-preachers-moca/

    80. Fairliered says:

      The only pledge Clegg is interested in is the furniture polish used to keep his ministerial desk shiny.

    81. Fairliered says:

      The only pledge Clegg is interested in is the furniture polish used to keep his ministerial desk shiny.

    82. Clootie says:

      You can see this appearing on party manifesto’s ?
      Then the coalition agreement will prioritise it?
      Then the White Paper/ Green Paper stages, it will sail through unchanged.?
      We do not expect and delays or challenges in the Lords?

      …And even IF anything did make it through

      It can be withdrawn at anytime.
      It can be neutral I.e. Every penny raised will lead to Barnett Consequential cuts
      It is a poison chalice designed to cripple Scotland by adding a tax burden ON top of UK taxation.

      Regardless the wealth of Scotland will still be shipped South. We will chip in £1200 per head extra for the new cross rail ( cross country link North England) / High Speed rail. Etc

      8.3 percent of the UK (us) will continue to contribute 9.9 percent of the uK budget.

      Promises (Only promises) with the pressure of an Independence vote. What do you think you will receive in the event of a NO vote (In their words “post a settled will vote”)

    83. BuckieBraes says:

      Worthless though this ‘pledge’ really is, it finally gives the green light to the media to state, over and over again, every day between now and 18 September, that ‘a No vote is a vote for more powers’ and ‘the referendum is a choice between independence and more powers’.

      It’s nonsense, of course, but it will be presented as fact. It’s what the media cheerleaders for ‘Better Together’ have been waiting for. We’ll become sick of hearing it. I’m depressed already.

    84. desimond says:

      Has Nigel Farage okayed this?

    85. heraldnomore says:

      And to think I interrupted the DVD of Scotland Yet to scroll through that.

      Back to the movie.

    86. Robyn Leith Stewart says:

      Manhattan was “sold” to the Dutch for £15 worth of wampum (trading) beads by the Manhattan Indians. That wasn’t stupidity, that was naivety. They were guaranteed that that was all the white men wanted. Yeah right.
      Apparently, Scots are the new Manhattans… but are they naive? I believe most are not, and therefore I believe that Westminster and her MSP cronies will NOT buy Scotland for a pittance of empty promises.

    87. Helena Brown says:

      Sort of O/T but actually part of this. Had the misfortune to hear James Naughtie on R4 this morning, he was discussing the Debate this evening and of course he had to take the BT tack with Blair Fattie MacDougall saying how none of the women of Scotland liked our First Minister. I thought well last time I checked I am a woman, I am a member of the same Party as Alex, I like the man. What about all the other women on Wings, do they all dislike Alex. Now I dislike quite a lot of the folk who like Blair MacDougall, in fact I sort of dislike him and I do not think until this morning I have heard a word he has uttered.

    88. Jim says:

      It’s starts of okay, headlining, “There shall be more powers for Scotland”, then, nothing, nada, zilch which is what we will get if we vote no.
      With independence comes full control and they don’t like it up them Mr Mainwaring

    89. Lesley-Anne says:

      I think there is a name for this … *ahem* … document. Now if only I could possibly remember what that name is! 😉

      I know that it is still hours away yet before the greatest slaughter of the 21st Century begins but I’m all a tremble. I can’t wait. I’n not really one for a lot of blood and guts but tonight I think I’m up for making an exception. 🙂

      I’d like, if I may, make a personal, impassioned plea to Alistair Darling. Please, please, PLEASE make sure you draw everyone’s attention, particularly the attention of the First Minister, to this latest *ahem* pledge by your bosses to the *cough* promise of new powers for the Scottish government. I’m certain that once the First Minister has picked himself up off the floor and regained his composure and dried his eyes from all the laughing he has done he will give you a respectful and considered response! 😛

      I’ve remembered what the name is!

      Comedy Gold! 😀

      Before I forget we received the latest *cough* endorsement of the union this morning … a fold out piece of card with five LIES on it. We also received the YES Scotland alternative … a TEN page brochure full of FACTS!

      Now I’m not the best one around to make incisive decisions but I think in this case even I can figure out which delivery is MORE believable. 😛

    90. O/T

      Ed Balls Fined £900 and awarded 5 x Penalty Points for hitting a parked car – he drove away from the scene.

      Why am I not surprised that he couldn`t see a crash coming.?

      Krash Gordon has a genuine excuse for blind-siding the economy in 2008.

    91. Mike says:

      That first line basically negates the rest of the “declaration”.

      What a piss poor load of rubbish. And to cap it off they’ve added a “no thanks” to the bottom of the scroll – as if they could read my mind : )

    92. K1 says:

      We are going to win this, irrespective of the overwhelming surge from them pushing the ‘more powers’ agenda. The real fight has been on the ground, they have no control over this and they know it.

      We have to hold steady and keep faith. The heart is going to win this not the head. We are a passionate and compassionate people, the momentum is with us. I can feel it. Watch the windows and cars over the next three weeks or so…then watch it in the last week, that is when most will reveal their intent. Remember the element of surprise is what we are really good at.

    93. Gary says:

      They’re humped. Having called the bluff of SNP Scottish Labour thought he’d back away, he didn’t. He asked for Devo Max as an option, Dave said NO thinking he’d back away, he didn’t. Now were getting to the end of the campaign and they are realising just how big their mistake was. They can’t offer Devo Max but have concocted a wafer thin proposal which is actually much worse than the statues quo. (shouldn’t we get a vote on THAT?). As long as voters are fully aware of the facts, they’ll vote YES. The job of BT is to smear and obfuscate using their secret weapon – FUD! No not A fud, Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt. So expect Darling FUD tonight to have plenty of smears, very fishy…

    94. Tam Jardine says:

      I see Blair MacD’s name on the bottom left – the whole thing has that cheap, naff, unprofessional look that fails to convince in any way. They can’t even take the time to produce something that looks official.

      I put a method statement and risk assessments together yesterday – took me about half an hour. The documents I put together look a thousand times more convincing that that ‘scroll’.

      Ed is unelectable. Willie Rennie is invisible and has about as much personality as a plastic bag.
      JoLa is the worst labour politician in a century. Nick Clegg and Cameron have attacked the poor Relentlessly during this hopeless, cynical and vacuous government.

      Ruth is the only one I have any grudging respect for – I think she is fairly intelligent and competent but Is unfortunately and totally wrong.

      Call me cynical but I have a receipt from the Co-op this morning that is a more significant historical document.

    95. Jim says:

      Baroness Warsi resigns calling the government’s policy on Gaza “morally indefensible”.
      Now I am no fan of the woman but, she has discovered where that horrendous smell was coming from and decided she wanted no part of it. I admire her for that.

    96. Jim Marshall says:

      Ronnie Anderson 12.44

      Brilliant prose Ronnie. You are the evangelist.

    97. heedtracker says:

      Vote no Libby Carrell of the Guardian’s been desperately polishing that BetterTogether debate turd for weeks now but this is great and why it takes two propaganda wonks instead of one, is another UKOK mystery.

      “And Darling – described by his own side as “having only one gear”, will also need to watch his body language: under stress, he tends to blink furiously and, like a Church of Scotland minister, can appear faintly condescending.”

      It’s stress alright Graun, it’s a classic tell when liars start lying and realise they’re well sussed. Some can’t make eye contact, some sweat like shoplifters or Westminster expenses fraudsters, some blink rapidly, like Flipper.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/alistair-darling-alex-salmond-scottish-independence-debate

    98. desimond says:

      Folks
      Lest we forget, this tactic has worked before, difference now is the trusting and respectful without question generations have phaased out and a new cynical and enquiring voter awaits….

      The parties havent changed since 79 so they didnt expect the voter too either!

    99. Macart says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      Yeah, got my two yesterday. Did you notice the difference in the quoted sources?

    100. Jim Marshall says:

      It does say No Thanks on the bottom of the document which is a very apt response to it.

    101. Cod says:

      Wait, is this not the same LibDems, led by Nick Clegg, who are now despised by everyone, including many of their own previous supporters, to the point where their vote has collapsed, for breaking pretty much all of the major pledges when they got into bed with the Tories?

      Well, that’s all right then, no reason to question any new pledges made by them.

      There’s already a plan for a stronger Scottish parliament in a strong Scotland, which lets the Scottish people decide how Scotland is governed. It’s called independence.

    102. donald anderson says:

      If he brought he scrolls from Mount Zion still no one would believe him.

      He is as well milking the system afore he has to clear his desk.

    103. Jim says:

      @Tam Jardine
      I have watched Ruth Davidson get filleted by the FM on many occasions and watched the expressions coming over her which say, “Why did I attack the FM with such a ridiculous accusation/question”.
      This is what happens when toeing the party line even though you don’t really believe in it’s policies.
      She’s a socialist, At heart, at heart……..

    104. Brian Thompson says:

      Is it just me or does the big dude in the middle look like he’s about to belt them?

    105. Andrew Brown says:

      The fact that it one of the signatories claims to be leader of something called the “Scottish Labour Party” tells you all you need to know about the worth of this so-called pledge. If all these individuals are so keen on more powers for Scotland why didn’t they ask for a “Devo-Max” option to be included on the referendum paper ?
      O/T got a reply from my MSP (Cara Hilton) to my queries. It was boiler-plate rubbish which did not answer any of the questions.

    106. chalks says:

      This isn’t anything new though, it’s merely confirmation of the devo-nano proposals that the Scottish parties proposed

      Yay.

    107. Proud Cybernat says:

      This is cynical in the extreme and aimed entirely at the Devo-Maxers. Well, Devo-Maxers, do you really think Westminster parties are about to give Scotland the powers over our country that we want and need? Didn’t think so and they never will. That is why they ensured the third option, Devo-Max, was removed from the ballot paper because they knew it would have won at a Nigel Tranter.

      Westminster will NEVER give Scotland the powers its people want and need–NEVER. Their actions prove that.

      There is but ONE WAY and we have but ONE CHANCE to get the powers we need and want to give the people of our country a better quality of life and a fairer, more equal society; a country where we will spend our money not on pointless weapons of mass destruction but in raising our kids out of poverty.

      Make it count. Make it happen.

    108. Ash says:

      They’re missing some signatures.

      The DUP, the orange order and the BNP.

      May as well throw in the EDL for good measure.

    109. Les Wilson says:

      Another paid ad on google by HM Government, aye it is up to Scots to decide that’s a laugh, if it was not so sick.

      http://www.youdecide2014.uk

    110. Jim says:

      @Andrew Brown
      If they allowed it on the ballot paper then they would have had to tell you before the referendum, which powers you would be getting. Instead, they can promise you more powers but give you nothing or slightly better, nothing much.

    111. Lesley-Anne says:

      Macart says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      Yeah, got my two yesterday. Did you notice the difference in the quoted sources?

      It took me a while but I eventually found the sources on the piece of card, had to use a microscope to read the sources though. 😀 Union is good, here are five reasons why union is good and oh by the way union is good because, erm, WE say union is good. 😛

      Meanwhile back in the real world we have independence is good and the sources can be read, without the use of a microscope I hasten to add, and found to be all NON Scottish Government sources. 😉

      Now then, what a pickle we find ourselves in. Do we believe the piece of card with information sourced from the sender themselves OR do we believe the 10 page document with information sourced out with the S.G. Oh decisions decisions how do I make the right decision? 😉

    112. heedtracker says:

      What’s the odds Flipper actually using that ridiculous scroll as a prop tonight. Anas Anwar pulled that trick STV debating Nicky Sturgeon and it was just hideous.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/one-man-and-his-props/

      “Will you sign our pledge Mr Salmond?” Over and over and over and over…

    113. Lesley-Anne says:

      You forgot to add our Nige to your list there Ash. I don’t think he’ll be too happy at having his beloved UKIP left off the list. 😀

    114. Edward says:

      Would love to see Alex Salmond produce stuff on the Clair Ridge project that shows that , contrary to what Darling will spout, the oil is not running out any time soon.

      To hear Alex saying ‘funny you should say that the oil is running out, take it Cameron didn’t tell you why he was on a secret visit to Shetland. Well here are the salient facts……’ and just watch Darling shrink into a small bright light and disappear

    115. I am surprised David Cameron didn’t wave that bit of paper at Glasgow Airport when he was up over the weekend for the CG ending and the WWI commemorations..However, it is not quite “Peace in our time”.

      But, I am even more surprised when I read it. Jo-La the SLab Daphne Broon impersonator who cannot do joined-up words, far-less joined-up thoughts, has managed to do joined-up letters in signing her name.

      Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab.

    116. Alan Mackintosh says:

      @Robert Peffers,
      Surely, “THE END OF THE UNION IS NIGH”
      🙂

    117. Clootie says:

      The more powers / The poll before the debate tonight / the Labour weighting used by that particular pollster.
      It all reminds me of this story:

      Art of War by Sun Tzu

      General Sun Tzu used a technique of sending a small group behind the enemy force to wave his colours. An attempt to break the will of his enemy by getting them to believe that their cause was lost – to break the spirit.

      The MSM/BBC/certain pollsters (I include Curtice)are the unionist armies flag wavers.

      Stand firm as we have the bigger army and the just cause. The flag wavers are all show with no real impact on the outcome except the power you give them through fear.

    118. frankieboy says:

      “as swiftly as possible” Sure.

    119. horacesaysyes says:

      Okay – so we get a load of waffle about unspecified ‘more powers’, signed by three folk with no authority to grant any additional powers, one who isn’t likely to get a sniff of power, one with ‘form’ on ignoring pledges and one with almost no political interest or representation in Scotland.

      Haud me back!

    120. Macart says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      On the money darlin’. These are our five facts and you can believe us because we’ve sourced ourselves. 😀 LOL

      OK, you expect government to source themselves or their own commissioned reports for some things, but damn, to back up those claims and on their record of governance? 😀

    121. faolie says:

      The Tories are going to win the 2015 GE, right? I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, Ed’s got nae chance. And it’s irrelevant how we vote (unless of course, we return 30 SNP MPs but that aside for now).

      So we get a Tory government again. And what’s uppermind in their MP’s minds? It’s not Scotland, that’s for sure. It’s Europe and the referendum. And with not one MP from Scotland to put any pressure on Dave (or Boris) the ‘pledge’ will end up in the dustbins at the back of the HoC.

      Vote No and be very afraid.

    122. desimond says:

      I woudl love for Alex Salmond just to start by saying

      People of Scotland, Westminster respect you so much, they sent this guy, he then lists Darlings expenses flips and passed political flips and then highlights he isnt even in the Shadow cabinet let alone in the Government andhighlights each time Labour were the cause of Scotlands woes and not just those uncaring Tories.

      Alex wont of course cause hes a nicer wiser shrewder man than I, but in my mind, the image of Darling fuming at each hurtful truth is just a peach!

    123. A Jarvis says:

      Rev Stu:
      “Where “full representation” means “a 12% reduction in representation”, of course.”

      But!
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21016025

      The reduction in Westminster MPs has been delayed until 2018 and a whole other review, so isn’t a valid claim ATM.

      Loved the article though 🙂

    124. Iain says:

      I think we need a gallery of all the scrolls which are going about on Social Media. We should line them up in one place and compare and contrast. Stu has already had some on his twitter account.

    125. Democracy Reborn says:

      Vote No, you get more “powers” to collect your pocket money.

      But here’s what you STILL get:-

      permanent austerity (Cameron)
      bedroom tax
      tax cuts for millionaires, attacks on the poor & low paid
      privatisation of the NHS
      nuclear weapons
      gross inequality
      no control over majority of Scottish tax revenues, including North Sea Oil
      Tory governments you didn’t vote for
      scapegoating of “foreigners”
      possible withdrawal from EU post-2016
      end of Council Tax freeze
      end of no university tuition fees
      end of free prescriptions

      Now where’s that scroll so I can sign it too….

    126. Lesley-Anne says:

      Ah but you forget one very important fact in all of this Macart. We are too wee, too poor and too stupid to realise that the liars of Downing Street are doing exactly that … LYING! 😛

      Hey I think I’ve just hit on a name for a new T.V. series there … “The Liars of Downing Street.” 😀

    127. HandandShrimp says:

      What does “a stronger United Kingdom” actually mean? For such a short document it has a lot of wriggle room.

      Do I believe this lot? Not much.

    128. Macart says:

      @Clootie

      Too right Clootie and that army is huge.

      Its every person who has ever suffered the indignity of the current welfare reforms. Its every person made redundant from what were once manufacturing based jobs in the heart of what used to be the worlds engineering capital. Its every person who used to live in a working class community, which then became a benefits community. Its every person who has been made to feel like they are a criminal because they are poor or have been made redundant with no future. Its every person who has jumped through hoops to claim benefits they have then been denied through some loophole or upgraded restriction and its every person who has hung their head in desperation at being forced to use a food bank to feed their children.

      And believe you me, there are a lot of those people out there waiting to let HMG know exactly how they feel about that.

    129. Josef O Luain says:

      Nick Clegg signs his own death-warrant, surely?

    130. Macart says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      That would require some cast list. 😀

    131. gerry parker says:

      What’s Davidson Rennie and Lamont got to do with it? They’ll just dae whit they’re telt.
      And as fur the either 3, have they consulted Nigel on this?

    132. Albert Herring says:

      @desimond

      I think you’ll find that this tactic has not worked before. (I presume you refer to the Yes victory in 1979)

    133. heraldnomore says:

      I see comments are open at the state-funded broadcaster on this one. You can guess how it’s going.

      ooh, Sheridan review coming.

    134. TD says:

      Devolution has been simultaneously a constitutional basket case and a pragmatic solution to some parts of the democratic deficit that afflicted Scotland prior to the re-convening of the Scottish Parliament. So to the extent that the parliament had powers, they have, broadly, been used to good effect and in many respects Scotland has become a better place for it.

      But all of the good points about devolution would have been available with independence. And devolution has failed to give us the policies we want and need on fiscal matters, defence, constitutional matters and everything else that is reserved to Westminster. It makes me angry just thinking about it – we are apparently not good enough to have power over everything. Why?

      Further devolution does not solve the fundamental problem. If we had power over 95% of all policies, what would the rationale be for not letting us have the other 5% of powers? It just doesn’t make sense for us or rUK.

      Devolution has been and always will be a fudge – there is recognition that things aren’t right so we’ll fix them. A bit. And then a bit more. But we’ll never fix them completely. And we’ll never let you have the oil money. You’re not good enough for that. If you want to tax yourselves a bit more, carry on. We’ll just remove the Barnet “subsidy”.

      Really gets my goat. Vote Yes.

    135. Les Wilson says:

      Want to know how Darling is taking things tonight.
      Watch his UNIBROW twitch vigorously! Then you know he is struggling!

    136. Mike Mackay says:

      We’d get Lucky Bags as kids.

      You’d pay thrupence and not know what was in the bag.

      Then it was all: “But mister I dont like licorice …” And … “Too late son, run awa’ hame…”

      This time they’re asking for a lot more than thrupence. And still offering only a Lucky Bag.

      I understand Westminster offering this. Its probably what they/we offered the people in India, or the Maoris, or the Masai people, thru’ the years. Its their way. Its been our way. We were brilliant at it. We’re complicit in all that, and all that.

      But I dont get us. Especially since we’ve been complicit in all that for soooooo long. We know what it is. We know exactly what it is. We’ve done it. We know.

      Yet, still, there are large numbers of us, educated now, eyes open, reading, looking, understanding that thats how we once hoodwinked the world into giving stuff up to us, with great grandfathers who bagged a Kenya or an Assam or a Tasmania with beautiful bits of paper and straight lines drawn on top of a wrinkled world, and we, we same people, we’re ready to give so much up for what ?

      For the promise of a Lucky Bag.

      Well done Westminster baiting us with a thrupenny Lucky Bag. Real chutzpah there. Really ballsy move. Very empire. Might work.

      But shame on us if we take the bait. Its a Lucky Bag which means …

      Theres nothing of value in it

    137. Les Wilson says:

      Democracy Reborn says:

      Hey, I like that!

    138. Graham says:

      I believe in Clegg. Look how well he steered through the Libs long-standing commitment to proportional representation.

      Has he ever thought of “Home Rule for Scotland”?

    139. Lesley-Anne says:

      Aye you’re right Macart but I think I know one or two names to start with … 😉

      Margaret Thatcher
      John Major
      Tony Blair
      Gordon Brown
      Alistair Darling
      David Cameron
      George Osborne
      Ed Milliband
      Ed Balls

      There would need to be a few in the supporting cast role as well I think. 😛

      Ruth Davidson
      Willie Rennie
      Johann Lamont
      Ian Gray
      Tavish Scott
      Annabelle Goldie

      Think I’ll retire to the *ahem* “Darkened Room” for a wee lie down and contemplation about other *cough* stars of this up and coming T.V. “classic.” 😀

    140. desimond says:

      @Albert Herring

      Sadly, ask those former lib loving students!

      I know regards the 79 vote was a win, hence my wish Salmond would highlight every time Labour fecked scotland over ( including 79) so their followers can see the truth for once.

    141. desimond says:

      @Mike Mackay

      I was thinking along those lines at the Opening ceremony “And here comes another country that told Westminster to chase itself…and now Scotland that should stay of course”

    142. Les Wilson says:

      Ash says:

      Even better you will see all who they would really want to sign on the BT football side on that jpeg!

    143. Macart says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      Key to to the mini bar is under the mat. 😉

    144. Les Wilson says:

      I see Ruthie signed it too?
      What happened to her line in the sand?
      Shifting sands it seems!

    145. muttley79 says:

      What time is the debate on tonight?

    146. heedtracker says:

      UKOK scroll of destiny, via Alistair Darling MP, opposition bank bencher , catastrophic hasbeen, expenses fiddler, will be able to answer questions like UKOK future of vote NO Scotland by what means?

      Jim Murphy on tour says over and over, don’t worry Labour will win the next UKOK general election and everything will be fine. Murphy should have had Darlings job, at the very least Murphy doesn’t blink so much.

    147. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks Macart. I’ll make sure to restock it before I leave. 😛

    148. stewartb says:

      More evidence of BP’s continuing investment West of Shetland.

      Offshore Energy Today (27 June, 2014) reports that ‘Deepsea Aberdeen’ , a brand new sixth generation ultra deepwater and harsh environment semisubmersible drilling rig just built in a South Korean yard, “will perform drilling operations West of Shetland under a seven-year contract with BP’. The rig is expected ‘to start up drilling operations for BP in 1st quarter 2015’.

      Source: http://www.offshoreenergytoday.com/deepsea-aberdeen-rig-named-in-south-korea/

      For interest, there’s a link from the web page to a short film showing the new rig – very impressive!

    149. Andy-B says:

      A basic explanation of this pathetic rag roll is, we’ll promise you anything, but once you’ve voted no, we’ll produce nothing. it really shows, how desperate, Westminster is when they need to take a full page ad out in the unionist press, professing their love for Holyrood, and more useless powers.

    150. Seasick Dave says:

      I see that the fictitious Scottish Labour Party has made an appearance on the scroll.

    151. Murray McCallum says:

      mutley79

      Debate is 8.00PM to 10.00PM. On TV across Scotland, including Middleland. Online too.

    152. Jamie Arriere says:

      A strong Scottish Parliament
      A stronger Scottish Parliament
      further strengthen the powers

      Ach, away with your half-arsed half-baked bollocks, there is NOTHING stronger than a sovereign Parliament!

    153. Andy-B says:

      Forget the “Dead Sea Scrolls”, now we have the “Dead UK Scroll.”

    154. Doug D says:

      There was a time when if the UK parties signed Devo Max into law I would have voted No. That time has long passed. But this is neither Devo Max nor is it a law. It’s not even a draft law, it’s a worthless scrap.

    155. Colin says:

      Fed up, want a bit of fun, head on over to Munquins and play spot the bussed in BT paid supporter at “Nicks Pledge” photo shoot this morning.
      First prize to whoever spots the most, I can see two, but I’m half blind.

    156. Indy_Scot says:

      I’m not sure if this more desperate than pathetic, or more pathetic than desperate, either way, who in their right mind would believe a bunch of lying, self serving con men.

    157. dennis mclaughlin says:

      Lying , scheming barstewards the whole lot just signed themselves into oblivion…..good riddance to the rotten bunch.

    158. Colin says:

      For some reason, if I include a link in my post, the post just disappears in to space.

    159. muttley79 says:

      I hope they do not call it the ragman roll…

    160. MochaChoca says:

      Brand new and someone has already spilled tea all down it and crumpled the edges !

      A closer inspection and it appears Nick Clegg’s signature is done in pencil, cheeky wee move.

    161. Minty says:

      Comments on the BBC website article split between Scottish people saying ‘Won’t get fooled again’ and English people claiming that we’re spending all ‘their’ money. Never realised I lived in a tax haven *looks more closely at wage slip*

      Wonder how much Blinky is going to try and make of this tonight? Will be amusing if he tries to make it a cornerstone of his case and it dies on its arse with the audience.

    162. Colin says:

      Even those intending to vote no must see this as so much flatulence.

    163. Andy-B says:

      A wee birdy told me that next week, Better Together, are going to roll out the Ark of Covenant, and inside the Ten Commandments,will begin with Thou shalt have more……………at Holyrood.

    164. Democracy Reborn says:

      A Message to All Undecided Labour Voters:-

      Did you EVER think you would see the day when your party was saying “You can rely on the TORIES to deliver what you want”?

    165. bjsalba says:

      O/T but I recommend http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/ for a critique of STVs conduct of this debate.

    166. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      http://www.statoil.com/en/careers/jobopportunities/careerpro/newopportunitiesmariner/pages/default.aspx

      250 miles to the north of mainland Scotland is still in our EEZ due to Shetland. Oil for the next 30 years according to the Norwegians. Guess nobody asked the vikings to keep a secret.

      Unless the backup plan is some kind of joint custody plan for Shetland in case we vote for independence. If Shetland were to be partly in Norwegian custody then that’d somehow transfer all that lovely oil revenue.

      More probable is the same techniques mentioned there are what are going to make the Clair field profitable. Possibly with deep sea fracking thrown in for good measure.

    167. Short changed says:

      I didn’t think the top three signatories are offices that legally exist.

    168. O was watching a programme about 1945 on Yesterday, earlier today.

      There was a news item on Montgomery taking the German surrender, and he invited the German representatives tyo sign in order of precedence: General-Admiral So-and-So, General Whoever, down via Colonel Somebody to, eventually, I think, John Major.

      That doicument meant something.

      This pledge from the Westminster parties has Daphne Broon, Fat Boabette and Oor Wullie signing before Lord Snooty, one of the Broon Twins and Hen Broon.

      In fact, for all it is worth, these characters might as well have signed.

    169. Training Day says:

      @bjsalba

      I suspect many of us will be so raging at the obvious set-up of a No-friendly pollster finding No-friendly poll results, followed by Ponsonby declaring before the debate has begun that ‘this shows that Yes have a mountain to climb’ or some such, that the first hour of the debate will pass us by while we attempt to calm down..

    170. Luigi says:

      I see that the fictitious Scottish Labour Party has made an appearance on the scroll.

      This will be the final straw for many Labour supporters in Scotland. Before, they only shared a platform, which was bad enough. Now they are joined at the hip with the toxic Tories, for all to see. And there’s worse – it is now signed and witnessed for posterity.

      I don’t think Miliband and Lamont realise yet, what a stupid, stupid thing they have just done. They will though, soon enough!

    171. donald anderson says:

      The extras behind them were al waving wee Saltires. Must have choked them. Wot was on the back of them anyway.

      White man speak with forked fingers.

    172. hetty says:

      Aye pull the other one Cleggy, let’s not have more lies, it’s getting really annoying now.
      How do these people sleep at night.

    173. Macandroid says:

      I see that the fictitious Scottish Labour Party has made an appearance on the scroll.

      Not one of them are a genuine Scottish party, only being small, insignificant parts of the respective “british” parties and they will do what they’re told.

    174. James S says:

      I think the first two words say enough:

      Power lies

    175. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Swello says:
      The mock scroll certainly gives it gravitas

      They should have gone for broke and used an ermine-fringed one.

      That would have done it for me …

    176. Andy-B says:

      Over on Craig Murray’s blog, it tells you how STV have loaded the audience with unionists and Labour voters for tonight’s head to head, and that STV’s first line of attack against Alex Salmond will be the IPSO/MORI polls, constantly favouring the union.

      But once you read how the votes are weighed and counted, it soon becomes apparent that, the polls are unevenly balanced in favour of the union.

      I personally think YES are in the lead,at the polls.

      http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

    177. TJenny says:

      James S – Ooh, give yourself a gold star for that. 🙂

    178. Dcanmore says:

      For Westminster this is really easy because in the event of a NO vote Scotland could easily be ignored as the swing votes for any future UK government lies in the SE England. Scotland could scream to the rafters after the 19th September but it would make no difference. The UK of the future after a NO vote would essentially be (as it is formulating now) the home counties and London. Scotland will be out of sight and out of mind with all the major parties complicit in turning a deaf ear. And in some ways their actions (or inactions) will be justified because Scotland voted NO.

      There will be some additional powers but will come at a cost, that cost will be the end of free education, prescriptions, elderly care, bus passes and whatever else the SNP supports. The idea would be to pacify the SNP as ‘just like the rest of them’. The SNP cannot in the future be different to any other party that has representation in parliament. They must be neutered so any ‘radical’ policies will be undeliverable. This is what has happened to the three main parties in Westminster, they all sing from the same hymn sheet now, all for austerity, all for privatisation, an end to public services and social welfare.

      This breeds apathy in the electorate, takes the ordinary person out of politics. This brings about low turnouts at elections in the poorer areas and guarantees that the true voting power of the land is concentrated where the powerful and enriched are based (aka the big business donors).

      The real panic the unionist politicians have about the referendum is democracy-max, leaving the future of Scotland to the people. This is exactly what they don’t want because the result is truly unpredictable. That’s why they are panicking now. They hate democracy, they try to shackle it as much as possible which is why the UK hasn’t a formal constitution because that means democracy enforced by law. Well crooks don’t vote for laws so why do politicians want more democracy.

      Since 1979 Scotland has been in managed decline. After a NO vote this year Scotland will continue to be in managed decline, but apart from industrial, there will also be a moral, purpose and democratic decline. Scotland’s light will fade away.

      We must vote YES.

    179. paul says:

      It will be interesting to see what is announced tonight before the debate as in secret Ipsos MORI are getting 60% yes 40% no and my source is impeccable.

    180. heedtracker says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/05/tv-debate-scotland-victory-scottish-referendum without actually reading this, the photo of Flipper says all you need to know about progressive liberals of the Graun. They really need 2001 Space Odyssey music to go with it all.

      youtube.com/watch?v=VxLacN2Dp6A

      “Save us from Scotland Alistair. It’ll just be little old England against the world without them”

    181. No no no...Yes says:

      James Cook on BBC News, no mention of DEVO Panic at all. He discussed tonight’s Debate saying that What Scotland Thinks poll of polls YES are at 44%, no at 56% when undecideds removed. The graphics didn’t work very well- the 44% stayed on screen for ages, the 56% for only a couple of seconds. Somebody will get sacked.

    182. handclapping says:

      @Andy-B
      Your thought that Yes are in the lead is backed up by the actions of the UK Gov. Why, if No are still leading, should they come out now with these promises? It is only if Yes are close or even in the lead that promises of more powers are needed and be sure they wouldn’t make them if they didn’t need to.

    183. heedtracker says:

      Or Graun could use this for Flipper’s big entrance

      youtube.com/watch?v=e9vrfEoc8_g

    184. Cath says:

      The scroll and promises do look particularly stupid with a “no thanks” at the bottom of them. Looks like they’re saying no thanks to their own offer. Which of course they are.

    185. Paradox says:

      Well Alistair why are you here trying to sell a English Tory government on the people of Scotland? Do you hate the Scots that much mr Darling?

    186. BigRik says:

      This will be the same 3 parties who have promised again and again that they will massively reform the House of Lords? The ones who just filled it with cronies and donors , well , i guess we can trust them then. About as far as i could throw an oil rig…

    187. Malcolm says:

      Nick “trust me” Clegg. We have his word, surely that is enough??

    188. Jim says:

      @handclapping

      It’s like telling your kids if they go to bed you will take them to the fairground at the weekend, anything to get them to go to bed.

    189. Cyborg-nat says:

      Well I “Signed the pledge”after every 3 day bender for the last 50 years and I am sure I am as honourable as Mr Clegg.

    190. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Cameron heard to be singing…

      ” It’s my party and I’ll Lie if I want to, Lie if I want to. Lie if I want to, and you’d lie too if it happened to you……….”

    191. Jim says:

      @Colin
      Delete the HTTP part of the address, seems to work for me doing that.

    192. muttley79 says:

      Nobody should be under any misapprehension that in the immediate aftermath of a No vote, all of these wretched and duplicitous ‘promises and guarantees of more power’ will be quickly forgotten about by the British state. In fact there will almost certainly be massive triumphalism by the MSM/No campaign. Anyone asking about more powers after a No vote will be laughed at.

    193. Andy-B says:

      How the hell could, Labour, the Tories and the Lib/Dems put a package of powers together for Holyrood when they can’t even, lay wreaths at Goerge Square in Glasgow without, squabbling. Its clear to me they can’t stand each others company, and are only putting up with each other in order to stop independence.

      http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9541-westminster-parties-wreath-squabble-marrs-ww1-commemorations

    194. No no no...Yes says:

      O/T but Kezia Dugdale, the attention seeking SLAB MSP caught out yet again:

      http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/aug/call-apology-labour-scare-story-collapses

      Will she ever learn?

    195. muttley79 says:

      @Andy-B

      The fact is that all 3 parties are as close to each other as they have ever been. In policy terms you could not separate them in any meaningful way. They are uber Neo-Liberal, for the few against the many, they support the British establishment without any equivocation at all. I can only put it down to tribalism.

    196. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The reduction in Westminster MPs has been delayed until 2018 and a whole other review, so isn’t a valid claim ATM.”

      Well, we didn’t put a date on it. It’s still going to happen.

    197. Murray McCallum says:

      Will it be Nick Clegg’s abilities as a LBC disc jockey that enables him to push through increased powers for the Scottish Parliament after Scots vote No to more powers?

      Maybe a big phone-in or something really special?

    198. Cal says:

      First, we had George Longshanks descend on Edinburgh for a couple of hours to deliver his Declaration On The Pound refusing to answer any questions then retreating as fast as he’d come. Next, we had David Longshanks and his secret meeting of the cabinet in Aberdeen. This time he stayed the night in Scotland but only just. A half hour’s ride on a swift horse to the safety of the border. Now we have three Toom Tabards on a Ragman’s Roll.

      It’s amazing how our history has echoed down the centuries during this campaign.

    199. Minty says:

      @NoNoNo…Yes

      You’ve got to hand it to Kezia Dugdale, a complete lack of knowledge or understanding of any given topic rarely holds her back from coming up with a quote about it.

    200. Training Day says:

      @Muttley

      ‘Nobody should be under any misapprehension that in the immediate aftermath of a No vote, all of these wretched and duplicitous ‘promises and guarantees of more power’ will be quickly forgotten.’

      Muttley, I suspect the tactic of Westminster will be not to immediately dismiss the ‘more powers’ scenario, but to convene a pointless convention to ‘examine’ the concept (chaired by Proud Scots such as Ming Campbell or Douglas Alexander), in which the life can be slowly squeezed out of ‘more powers’ and the concept gradually dissipated in the context of a Scotland demoralised and helpless after a No vote.

      Let’s call it Calman Max…

      A death by a thousand cuts if you will..

    201. Paradox says:

      STV debate tonight will be stuffed with SLAB bully boys and loyalist foot soldiers. That mob will be victualled and expenses covered by the Tory party via BT front.

      Ponsonby will have an eye on the ermine, and wearing his union boxers.

      Just play the game the way you always do ECK, BUT WATCH YOUR BACK, they will throw plenty of lies and the ref will not notice. You have been set up Alex but you can still beat this ambush.

      Nemo me impune lacessit.

    202. Was the Scotland Act 2012 not scrubbed clean of a raft of ludicrous garbage inserted by the seat warmers in the HoL before it passed into law?

      Might be useful to dig some of these up so that folk can see exactly what was, and will be, in store for us if there’s a No.

      We need to think positively. The tax pledges are an irrelevance as Scotland does not want to continue with the complicated and highly inefficient Westminster tax system. Discussions are already taking place about a new tax system so why would we want to stick with one that’s outdated. Independence is about doing this differently, not being shackled to the outdated and costly Westminster system.

    203. Simon Chadwick says:

      Too easy to edit….

      http://tinypic.com/r/2mrigza/8

    204. muttley79 says:

      @Training Day

      Yes, that is probably what they would do if there is a No vote. They would have to overcome their impulse for triumphalism, with many mediocrities wanting to goad Salmond in particular. This will be a hard one to control for them, given their all consuming fear and loathing of the FM of Scotland. They have no intention of giving Scotland any more meaningful powers. A Ming Campbell/Douglas Alexander constitutional committee is probably the most likely. Campbell will probably get knighted, and so would not even be interested in this, leaving Alexander the most likely to bore over us. This would drag on for years, and be the useless talking shop it was set up to be.

    205. BigRik says:

      Alternatively , we could have ALL the powers we want with Independence… its what the Americans call a No Brainer..

    206. Nana Smith says:

      Elderly chap I’ve been speaking to pointed to my window with Yes stickers and said “I’m yes now as well”

      I asked him would he be watching the debate tonight, his reply “no, there is no point,its a fit up by London”

      He went on to say he hoped enough people see through the lies. He voted labour all his life but no more. When he saw them get together with the tories to do Scotland down, that told him they are against the Scottish people so why would we vote for labour.

    207. OK I don’t trust any of them,but lets see what they never said,when will these “powers ” be introduced? will they be permanent? will they take other powers away? will the enshrine in law that no powers may be removed from the Scottish parliament,also enshrine the survival of Holyrood as the seat of the Scottish Parliament? From the time in ’74 when they promised the MOD jobs,and the re-siting of the MOD,to Glasgow that never happened,the Tory promise of vote no and get “something better” in ’79,who will admit to believing them then? I never believed them,and I still cant believe Westminster politicians on form they will squeal and wriggle till they manage to find a way around giving powers to Scotland.The phrase “giving powers” also gnaws at my mind,why should they give what we should have,by rights.

    208. donald anderson says:

      No matter how they try to fit the debate Eck will win, not just because he really cares and is passionate. Not just because he has an empirical knowledge of his subject and really id a smart Alex, but becuase he has a just case.

      The organ grinder’ Tory monkey, Darling has nothing but waffle and self interest. He is a bum. He can’t gat away with any more lies tonight. Go get him Eck.

    209. Jim says:

      @No no no…Yes

      Never heard of her before the referendum debates started and never want to hear about her after it’s all done.
      What exactly was her point? Should Scottish students not perform well through fear they may not get a University place?
      The more of our youth performing well in education the better and just reduce the number of EU students starting entry level courses. Our children should get first option on a University place with EU citizens and the like taking up the rest.

    210. CameronB Brofie says:

      What, more powers from this lot?

      http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuRLiPpCMAAau_0.jpg
      (George Osborne at Thatcher’s funeral vs George Osborne at the WW1 service in Glasgow)

    211. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      They missed out the “Best of Both Worlds” bit.
      I was so looking forward to seeing that in their declaration.
      Is that not one of their key policies?

      @cal
      liked the historical echoes.
      Upcoming fIrst skirmish – have you noticed the resemblance of Darling to Henry de Bohun?

    212. donald anderson says:

      The three same parties are close to each other and try to exaggerate any meaningless opportunist difference. Where they really fall out is only over the division of the spoils and the4 battle for seats. I feel sorry for the English electorate only having that and UK to choose from. The novelty of UKIPpers will soon wear out.

    213. west_lothian_questioner says:

      Fiscal responsibilities… great stuff. Whatabout some fiscal means with which to meet those responsibilities?

      Pig and poke are the first words to come to mind.

      Just to be sure I got out two mirrors and double checked the back of my head… no buttons, no zip… I think I’ll still be a yesser in that case.

    214. Les Wilson says:

      No no no…Yes says:

      That poll is run by the unionist Prof Curtis, something to remember. I am not surprised that the BBC are using it.
      Suits their purpose.

    215. Jim says:

      @donald anderson

      Unless the FM has something up his sleeve then we are going to hear the same old, same old. Darling will wax lyrical about how we wont retain EU membership, wont be allowed to use the pound, what is your plan B, blah, blah. Alex will, well, you know what he will say.

    216. Jim Marshall says:

      Labour are really desperate to have sided so openly with the Tories. I think this document will prove to be a death warrant for the Labour party in Scotland.

      OT. Speaking of desperation, those of you old enough to remember the Boys from the Blackstuff may recall when Yosser in despair consults his priest. The priest trying to make Yosser feel comfortable says ” just call me Dan “, Yosser replies ” I”m desperate Dan “.

    217. wee e says:

      “The Scottish Labour Party, the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party and the Scottish Liberal Democrats have each produced our own visions […] We shall put those visions before the Scottish people at the next general election

      Honest to god, stu, when I read that on the parchment graphic, I thought it was the punchline to your spoof!

      It…isn’t a spoof….
      Trying to…get my head round that…

    218. Chic McGregor says:

      Unlike the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party and the Scottish Liberal Democrats, the Scottish Labour Party does not exist. It is merely the northernmost section of the UK Labour party.

      Or as it will be known should there be a NO vote ‘The North Londonia Labour Section’.

    219. Lesley-Anne says:

      There shall be more powers for the Scottish Government … Oh REALLY? 😉

      I wonder what these *ahem* “new powers” will actually cost us here in Scotland. Any one remember the big splash and loads of noise that this story caused about new LACK of powers for the Scottish Government?

      A Scottish MP has reacted with fury after the Scottish Parliament was stripped of a key energy power after a House of Lords amendment was backed by Unionist MPs.

      SNP Energy spokesman Mike Weir MP slammed the vote, which saw powers over renewable obligation brought back under the control of Westminster.

      This is from an article over on Newsnet Scotland on December 4th last year.

      http://tinyurl.com/mjf6q4o

      Now that we have this *cough* fascinating prospect of even MORE powers for Holyrood I wonder exactly what powers they intend to REMOVE from Holyrood in return. This is of course in ADDITION to the obligatory CUT in the Barnett “pocket money allowance” they will deign to give us!

    220. Jim Marshall says:

      Chic McGregor 4.44

      “Unlike the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party and the Scottish Liberal Democrats, the Scottish Labour Party does not exist. It is merely the northernmost section of the UK Labour party.”

      Absolutely correct Chic, I have appealed on this site on a number of occasions for posters not to give them credibility by calling them Scottish Labour or Slab.

    221. It must just be me I guess ? – Didn’t the BritNats fight ‘tooth and nail’ (or was it blood and soil ?) to keep this sort of option of the fecking ballot paper ?

      For our ‘Loyal’ Labour friends in Scotland – ‘Who’s the Tartan Tories Noo ?’

      Fronting for Cameron and the Tory masters eh ?

      Who’d have thought it would come to this ?? Foulkes, Curran & Sarwar maybe but now you are all soiled.

    222. Bob Malcolm says:

      What these people mean by extra powers is the power to raise extra tax revenues by allowing the Scottish Government to impose extra (higher) taxes on the Scottish people to give the Scottish Government extra revenue to spend how it wishes. We don’t want this, just give us back more of our own money, (which you keep)and we can spend that on the projects we want (like a airport train link to Glasgow). Why should the Westmister Government us Scottish taxpayers money to carry projects down south and expect the Scottish people to pay extra for projects up here.

    223. Andy-B says:

      How disgusting is this Google uploads game that allows you to bomb Gaza.The game allows you to strike Gaza as an Israeli fighter pilot.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/bomb-gaza-users-call-on-google-play-to-remove-game-that-lets-users-carry-out-israeli-air-strikes-on-palestinians-9647579.html

    224. Davie Park says:

      O.T. An ex-Labour councillor friend of mine has given the following reasons for voting against independence. I gave a long-winded response which I’m not entirely happy with. I’d be interested in the thoughts of readers.

      “I am a No vote and my reasons are I have read the White paper “Scotland’s Future ” and did not feel that there was sufficient financial evidence to go it alone MY OPINION. I also find it hard to swallow that an independent country would not want to vote in their own president the white paper states we will keep the Queen as head of state . We will also under the proposal keep the pound therefore the bank of England will still provide the interest rates so are we really independent. I am afraid that the hard working person who pays enough in tax as it is will be hit even harder to deliver all the gains that are talked about within the paper . What will happen to our armed forces , NHS , Police , welfare state, where will the new jobs come from in renewable energy and green technology , how will small business fair in the large scheme of thing, will big business leave , who will pay our pensions and because i worry about all this I can honestly say I will vote NO”

    225. kendomacaroonbar says:

      @Davie

      I recall a saying.

      “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”

      Even when presented with facts, I can imagine this lad falls into the above category. Did you ask him what he’s done about enlightening himself ?

    226. Seasick Dave says:

      Davie Park

      And that, Davie, in a nutshell is why Scotland is where it is today, in a state of arrested development.

      People like your friend, in positions of power, with no vision or ambition for Scotland, who are happy for the criminals in Westminster to remain in charge of our destiny and to pauchle our resources to fund their lifestyles and warmongering schemes.

      Your friend, the Labour socialist councillor, should be at the front of the queue to vote Yes and should be dragging every one of his comrades with him.

      Scotland’s future lies in Scotland’s hands and only a Yes vote on September 18th can deliver that.

    227. macart763m says:

      @Davie Park

      So what your friend is saying basically is that he doesn’t feel the sums add up on one hand and that now and for all time no other party would propose a republic as part of their manifesto in an independent Scotland?

      Well short of laughing out loud, which never goes down well when you laugh at friends, the work of the fiscal commission tends to disagree with your friend’s assessment. I mean he may well be more sussed than some of the world’s foremost economic thinkers, but I’m betting that if in their opinion, the opinion of the FT, the Times and of S&P that Scotland would make a successful and viable economic model, then he might wish to reconsider his position. 😀

    228. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      O/T Car park Yes sticker poll
      on Islay on holiday (Cataclysm Robertson and Buffoon Carmicheal homeland) and even here the Yessers are out in force lots of flags and yes signs.

      Car Park today – 8 cars in a line – 5 had Yes stickers (several with multiple – like ours).
      I was having a good laugh when a nice Yesser family came and said what a great car park !
      I agreed and we had a good chat with them and then I expected them to get into a Yes car when we both drove off. But their one was a stickerless one.
      Stopped my car jumped out and passed them a Yes car sticker from my handy stock. Before I got back in my car it was stuck on their back window – amazing!

      Then noticed from the window reflection that one sticker less car had a yes sticker on the dashboard.

      So 7 from 8 – and in Islay of all places!

    229. donald anderson says:

      Isn’t the Queen the Head of the Royal British Labour party?

    230. Truth says:

      None of the Scottish parties quoted on the this joke of a document actually exist though do they?

      They are merely trading names of their respective British counterpart.

    231. Davie Park says:

      Thanks for replies to my post. I certainly pointed them in the direction of the FT article and provided answers to the individual points they raised. However, it was all a bit involved and I’m sure that the others in the conversation were a bit bored by my fulsome reply.

      I just needed something punchy to deal with the ‘uncertainties’ line of attack.

    232. Andy says:

      Davie Park’s friend raises one point that is difficult to argue against – sharing the pound. I’ve yet to read an independent economist supporting this as a good idea. Why would an independent Scotland with such a significant – 20% – hydrocarbon element to its GDP use the currency of a country with an entirely different balance of payments situation – one which is not nearly as exposed to changes in the oil price – leaving us unable to adjust interest rates to suit our cloth, deal with oil price shocks or value our currency accordingly.

      The only reason the SNP are proposing this is to get the result they want, which is thoroughly disingenuous, and it clouds everything else they say. If they had come out and said that a Norwegian model would suit an independent Scotland better and that was their recommendation, I would have a lot more time for them. How can a future rUK’s monetary policies be better for Scotland with Scotland on the outside,?

    233. EdinScot says:

      Apologies if this has already been said as not had time to read all the comments but why is our FM debating with this no mark they call flipper as he is not in power north or south of the border? If i remember correctly his party were booted out for a reason with crash Gordon at the helm so furthermore why should the people of Scotland give him any credence as the discredited msm desperately want us to do. Farcial!

    234. a2 says:

      Can someone explain exactly what they are up to?

      No doubt there’s been some thought gone into the announcement of this and advice taken from business psychologists and the like. but I can’t put my finger on the reasoning.

      if BT’s stratigy is to
      A. Hold on to the no vote
      B. Convince the undecided &
      C. Scare the soft Yes’

      I can’t see how it helps them.

      A. the solid no’s don’t want any more powers.
      B. more likely to make the undecided think , hang on why are they offering this just now, they must either want us to stay real bad or think more powers is a good thing, why not go all the way? and I don’t trust any of them anyway
      C. It’s not scary unless you know it’s not really more powers. (which means it’s only the better informed yesers that find it scary)

      But there must be some tactical reason they think it’s going to help them, what is it? I don’t buy the idea they are all stupid.

    235. a2 says:

      Edin Scot, I think you have answered your own question there.

    236. Seasick Dave says:

      Andy

      OK, OK, you win.

      Now leave us in peace.

    237. jake says:

      shame, none of the signatories will be in power in 2016

    238. Kirriereoch says:

      @Dr JM Mackintosh

      I´ve just returned from Islay and saw quite a few yes stickers too.

      One place for an interesting “encounter” is the post office shop in Portnahaven. It was staffed by an enthusiastic young gentleman who is perhaps the perfect Unionist opposite of MacGlashan, the Scottish nationalist stereotype in the TV show Absolutely.

      His preamble was to jest how if we´d visited Islay in the 1970s we´d end up in scenes like the Wicker Man with burning torch processions until the locals were “tamed” by the newcomers in the 1990s. Patronising in the extreme, but also quite amusing to watch his act.

      He is Better Together´s embodiment:

      Empire, the Highland Clearances didn´t happen really, Empire (again and again and again!), borders, his parents, from Yorkshire, will be furriners!!! and since he said most of the farms are now owned by people from England they´ll be “furriners!” too. War, empire, foreigners etc…

      He also revelled in saying, over and over again, “I´m a Jock!, I´m a Jock, Empire, I´m a Jock.” Weirdly discomfiting..

      etc, etc…I asked “What´s wrong with foreigners? And you´re calling everyone English or Scottish now anyway. And isn´t the Empire over now?”.

      If I hadn´t been on holiday and hadn´t got bored with his comments I could have challenged him on more, but life is too short. I did get one of his leaflets with the idea that that´s one leaflet for the bin and one less for some other poor customer who visits later. At least he was entertaining.

      I´d love to see him do a TV debate with MacGlashan 🙂 He´s a real proud Jock, as he told me many times.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li7HnT1YP-Q

    239. handclapping says:

      Sharing the pound is not economics, its politics. You do not want your major trading partner and its currency going down the tubes on the day you reach independence.

    240. Nick Clegg? Is that not the same guy that signed a pledge in 2010 to promise students in England that there would be no tuition fees if the Lib Dems were in government?

    241. muttley79 says:

      @Davie Park

      I think your friend is just going to vote No. I don’t think he really believes that Westminster will provide better governance over Scotland than Holyrood. Some people will just vote No out of the old ‘its always been’ mentality. I honestly do not think there is much else you can do in this particular case.

    242. alex livingstone says:

      the gentleman encountered in Islay is the Tory candidate for Argyll and Bute at the next General Election famous for his rant in the Daily Express about been hounded by young Yes supporters.He is a great admirer of david cameron

    243. James Dempster says:

      Interesting comment today from Bloomberg.com, that bastion of Cybernattery.

      “So today, with a bribe blatant enough to make a Mafia don buying the local garbage-collection contract blush, the leaders of Westminster’s three main political parties signed a pledge to give the Scottish parliament more tax-collecting powers if the country votes to remain part of the U.K.”

      http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-08-05/scottish-independence-vote-gets-ugly

    244. Les Wilson says:

      Anyone know who is “on the panel” during the debate?
      two Unionist reporters as usual, perhaps?

    245. Les Wilson says:

      Ref powers, we will never get real powers because they well know that WILL lead to the end of the Union. Add then, they are desperate to keep their sticky fingers on our resources, our men for war purposes, keep Trident well away from them, etc etc.

      Absolutely NO chance of real powers, they want to degrade Holyrood and eventually close it. That is their real agenda, and our future if there is a no vote.

    246. Lesley-Anne says:

      Hope everyone enjoys the kicking that Darling gets tonight, unfortunately I won’t be able to watch it it seems. 🙁

      I’ve checked all the ITV channels for the debate and guess what it is not scheduled … well what a surprise.

      I’ve tried to sign up to STV player and it won’t let me sign in … well what a surprise.

      I’m now in the ridiculous situation where I just do not know if I will be able to watch it or have to rely on everyone here giving punch by punch reports. 😀

    247. CameronB Brofie says:

      Sorry Seasick Dave, but I’ve just got to scratch. 🙂

      Andy
      Why would an independent Scotland with such a significant – 20% – hydrocarbon element to its GDP use the currency of a country with an entirely different balance of payments situation – one which is not nearly as exposed to changes in the oil price – leaving us unable to adjust interest rates to suit our cloth, deal with oil price shocks or value our currency accordingly.

      One reason I’ve heard, is that a Scottish currency backed by oil, might prove too strong. It could stifle the economy, apparently, if we went for it too soon. Also, are you perhaps forgetting that Scotland must surely obtain some representation on the BoE Monetary Policy Committee? As such, would we not have a say on interest rates, at long last?

    248. Croompenstein says:

      @Lesley-Anne – If you have sky tv John Young posted this the other night..

      To add STV to your sky box

      Press Services button
      Go to add Channels and press select
      In frequency put in 10906
      Polarisation should be at ‘v’
      Change symbol rate to ’22.0?
      Change FEC to ’5/6?
      Press yellow button and highlight STV
      Press Select twice and that is the channel stored.

      When you want to view STV rather than ITV/UTV then press services, select other channels and select STV

    249. Lesley-Anne says:

      No sorry Croomp we don’t *ahem* ‘do’ SKY. Think I’ll just have to wait and hope that somewhere, somehow I’ll be able to find a way to watch the paramedics carrying Alistair Darling away. 😛

    250. Croompenstein says:

      I was moaning about this the other night and John put that on, someone else put up some way to get STV with freesat and that if you have freeview you are meant to be able to get it. It’s an absolute scandal that viewers in the Border TV region are missing this

    251. Lesley-Anne says:

      All I can do Croomp is try ITV at 8 p.m. and see if they do actually have it live. Failing that I’ve now found the STV player now has a banner which is a link to the debate. All I can do is wait on tender hooks till 8 then see what happens. 😉

    252. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      If you’ve got Sky google to find out how to tune in. Otherwise for one night only you can watch live on stv player.

    253. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks guys looks like it’s wait till 8 p.m. and hope either STV player is as good as their word or indeed ITV does indeed shimmy up to the plate. I would rather watch the massacre of Darling on the *ahem* big screen than a computer screen but hey ho let’s go and see what happens. 😀

    254. Blair paterson says:

      As reguards the latest comfort poll for bt. All Alec has to do is ask them how far ahead the no vote was on the poll they are afraid to publish vote yes

    255. Thepnr says:

      @Andy 5:48

      Davie Park’s friend raises one point that is difficult to argue against – sharing the pound. I’ve yet to read an independent economist supporting this as a good idea.

      I take it Andy that you are suggesting that the 4 economists that make up the Fiscal Commission Working Group are not Independent of thought.

      None are Scottish and the group include two Nobel Prize winners. Are you suggesting that they are bias because the SG commissioned them to provide the options available to Scotland regarding currency was just a ruse and Alex salmond all along wanted to join a currency union with rUK after a vote for Independence?

      If so, I suggest you are falling for your own bias, do you not think then that the point of engaging some of the most notable economists in the world to advise you is not admirable?

      I don’t think Salmond, nor myself come to that really care about the currency Scotland will use on it’s Independence, but surely you’ll agree that it would be foolish in the extreme to ignore a paper prepared by some of the world’s best economists.

      Davie Park’s friend raises one point that is difficult to argue against – sharing the pound. I’ve yet to read an independent economist supporting this as a good idea.

      have a read then feel free to criticise the economists you dismiss as not Independent enough.

      http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00414291.pdf

      By the way, the entire UK governments decision NOT to agree on a currency union was based on a single letter from the Treasuries most senior civil servant who just happens to work for Osborne. I know who I prefer to listen to or believe.

    256. Johnny Farrell says:

      The only pledge Nick Clegg signed that matters is the one he signed that sold the poor, the vulnerable and the sick of Britain down the river when he entered the coalition with the tories

    257. Thepnr says:

      @Johnny Farrell

      Correct.

    258. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      The problem with revealing a plan B is that BT will then try to rubbish that as well. We’re dealing with a government who went out of their way to run down the economy in a bid to talk down the economy in an attempt to win absolute power in 2010 and in a self-fulfilling proficy they made a bad situation worse. I’ve no doubt that if a plan B were revealed they’d do their best to sabotage that and the same with C or D or so on. They may have already done enough to damage any prospect of a formal currency union despite that being in the best interests of both parties, at least for the initial period post independence.

    259. Ken500 says:

      More PR plants get paid to pose.

      A writing expert should investigate their signatures to see who is the biggest liar. The lot of them

      Lots like a scroll picked up in toys r us, by a bunch of losers.

    260. Being offered more powers by Westminster is akin to a prisoner having served a long incarceration being offered the opportunity to remain in his cell if they promise to modernise it.



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