Betting on a sure thing
Posted on
August 04, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Ralph Topping, CEO of William Hill, in the Financial Times, 4 August 2014:
Those voices of common sense just keep mounting up, don’t they?
Brilliant!
Well there you go then.
Well done Ralph although you can kiss the knighthood goodbye but still you have more integrity in your little finger than our SLab MP’s and MSP’s who crave the succour of the British Establishment before their own people.
Of course they do. Why on Earth would Scotland be the only country in the western world where businesses daren’t do business? Any good business person would be rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of working in a freshly vitalized country. The mechanics of business – tax, transactions and all the red tape is just what they get on with it. They have people to do it for them!
An independent Scotland is a massive opportunity all round.
Bookies have integrity?
@Paula
You bet they do.
The only reason that the UK Government does not want an Independent Scotland is to ensure the flow of Scotland’s wealth continues to pour into Westminster to fill the cups of the City of London and its cronies.
55%+ Yes now 6-1.
The dyke is starting to crack:
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/yes-vote-percentage
The sad thing is that we are surprised by such a simple fact. Most major companies operate in dozens of countries with not only different tax systems but often with significant variations in investment risk.
Scotland would be deemed one of the most stable to operate in. BT lies are so blatant sadly.
I wonder if Ralph’s had a few £ on Yes, to boost the pension pot.
At Ladbrokes obv.
Great start to the month, slightly concerned though that the bastards aren’t making hay with Alex Murrays slaverings. Not like PF to miss a trick like this.
Don’t know if bookies have integrity but they know how to do business and make money, so they ain’t going anywhere!
‘Better Together’, or ‘NX THANKS’, or ‘UKOK’, or whatever it calls itself, can be expected to stick to its joyless script however.
‘You won’t be able to do this.’
‘You won’t be able to do that.’
‘It’s extremely unlikely you’ll be able to do the next thing.’
Scotland – the unique basket-case among nations, apparently.
A simple truth, put simply.
He’s coming out for Yes tomorrow(according to Sky)
Common sense, is what our friends in the no campaign avoid like the plague, common sense is against all of the “NO thanks, Bettertogether, westminster-bum-material” principles, if you could call them that.
The very last thing the no campaign will engage with is a senseable debate, you watch what will happen tommorrow night, darlings positive view of the union will consist of scare’s, half-truths and everything is risky better not do it.
The one thing that will be thrown out faster than a YES flag at the commonwealth games will be ‘common sense, as darling & co would hate for that to be put to the ordinary voter. It’s a sure vote loser for the NO campaign.
I dunno whether the guy has integrity as a bookie, what I meant was that he has given up on British patronage by talking sense and that those Proud Scot but’s who perpetuate the myths as a way to win the patronage have zero integrity
According to the wise, nae brilliant observer in the cheap seats, Alan Cochrane, our wonderful Commonwealth games has impressed, far and wide. I know right, the Daily Telegraph boosts SNP.Scots.gov. We’re through the looking glass people! Also AA Gill of the Sunday Times is Yes too but he’s makes BBC racist in chief Jeremy Clarkson look like Ghandi.
The whole ‘bookie’ angle is fascinating insofar as it feeds into the TWTPTS myth.
I remember seeing an elderly man being physically escorted from the premises by the manager in a Glasgow (Victoria Rd) betting shop circa 1981. This was before everything was computerised, digitised, instant etc, and the odds had to be physically updated by a guy using white-board markers. (These guys were extraordinarily good at what they did, had to be on-the-ball constantly, and the huge boards, covered with script in different colours, were temporary works of art – many different skills involved in creating them…)
Anyway, this old boy was punted out of the shop because he was querying the winnings. Can’t remember the details now, but it was an accumulator (a ‘Yankee’) – he had four selections, and he reckoned he’d been paid fifty pence less than he was due. The argument with the staff member was extraordinary, and caused much upset/disagreement among the regulars.
If you had selected four horses ‘Each-Way’, and they were all placed, but you had to mentally work-out how much your 50-pence stake produced from the first horse being second, the second being first, the third being third, and the fourth being first, at 3/1, 7/4, 9/5 and 10/4 respectively, wouldn’t you need a pen and pad? That guy didn’t, and neither did the bookie.
Integrity? Bookies must have it, elsewise they get pulled-up sharpish by guys (mainly) for whom the difference is, at times, utterly life-changing.
In Scotland (where people have a vote) the money is going on YES. In the south (where people do not have a vote) the money is going on NO. Explains the Odds. Which way to choose?
Apologies for O/T, but.
Is there a super poll tomorrow before the debate? Although it’s IPSOS.
Good luck to Eck tomorrow. A great, rousing performance would be amazing.
It’s a terrific essay
We should take our place as an equal member of the international community. Our choice is between two futures, both involving uncertainty. A Yes vote will give us the power to manage change. A No vote would hitch our wagon to Westminster’s erratic locomotive –
a dangerous gamble indeed.
YES to win was 11/2 in Oct 2013
YES to win is 6/5 now.
The Odds have fallen as the Polls have narrowed.
Don’t forget your WingsoverScotland lapel badge oor Edk! One journalist in Bath, one in thousands doing something none of the appalling British press has had the integrity to do, check out the facts.
The last thing a big company wants is two neighbouring governments to cause them needless bureaucracy, delays & costs.
So expect more companies to hint to the British to basically start acting like mature adults & prepare to quickly solve the problems that other international neighbours resolve without throwing bricks at each other.
Welcome to yes.
Well said Ralph Topping.
My God, when is this utter shit going to be put to bed.
Businesses in Scotland will still want your business, Independence will not change that fact!
A profitable business in Scotland as part of the UK will still be a profitable business in the event Scotland regains her rightful place as an independent country.
Check out the telegraph front page on day of biggest debate, it’s dynamite
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/496399865401069568
Sorry O/T,
Tweeted by Charles Shoebridge RE: BBC reporting on gaza.
http://www.newssniffer.co.uk/articles/818025/diff/1/2
Very few businesses in Scotland are Scottish owned although that is something I really couldn’t give a shit about as long as they have a presence here and are providing employment.
Ken500 @ 11:11 pm
YES to win was 11/2 in Oct 2013
YES to win is 6/5 now.
The Odds have fallen as the Polls have narrowed.
=======================
NONSENSE! A yes win is still 9/2 – Free money as far as I can see!
Another post, rightly said, the NO money is coming from “daawn sauf!”
If the front page of the Torygraph is right, we must have reached crossover in the polls. Press on…
O/T
Plenty money for weapons eh Danny boy…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/11010973/Pay-rise-for-doctors-and-nurses-blocked.html
Nurses and Doctors get a 1% pay rise blocked but MP’s vote for an 11% rise for themselves. You couldn’t make this crap up.
@Ian Brotherhood
Noticed that too Iain, I put a few quid on 55+ last Wed at ladrokes at 8-1, things are moving fast, and I fully expect the odds to improve further after Blinker’s performance tomorrow night..
Congratulations to Ralph Topping. Let’s face it there seems to be far too many C.E.O.’s out there in *ahem* “Businessland” who appear to be more concerned about when they will receive their obligatory knighthood rather than what is actually going on in the real world or what is actually best for their company and employees!
Now then, now then peeps, is it just me or are the big three getting even more paranoid about losing Scotland. I’ve just seen this headline in the Daily Telegraph.
Party leader’s unite to let Scotland set its own tax.
I’m beginning to think that if we stay our ground that by the time the referendum happens in September the big three will effectively be offering us independence if we vote NO. 😀
The last time I bet on anything with a bookies they had runners and if caught they were in the clink. I’ve never bought a lottery ticket but that doesn’t mean I don’t gamble. For each of us does so every time we cast a vote in an election. Proof of that is the rock solid fact that people did not vote for the cheats, flippers, sex offenders and other criminals that have crawled out of the Westminster political woodwork over the years.
Seen this latest one on Sky news.com/Edinburgh Fringe: Referendum Takes Centre Stage. It’s on the politics section.
Where do they get this from???????? Some of the comments and opinions are right close to the bone. If we said these things all hell would be on people!!
@willbewhatiwill: my personal favourite, aside of anything financial which just has me in stitches laughing, is, if they did go independent, the second that happened, their passports would immediately be invalid for travel. Just another spanner in Alex’s dream. Your post as usual is spot on, but there are just so many other negatives it is unreal
I saw that headline on Sky News Lesley Anne.
You know for a pro union team that brags about leading the polls, they are making all sorts of promises which theoretically, they don’t have to ?
Off Topic: for those not on the twittersphere there has been a no campaign going on for the last few weeks where they have paid for spam accounts to tweet a wee ditty attached to a photo with an ostrich with its head in the sand. Anyone who had done a search using the indyref hashtag will have seen it hundreds of times if not thousands.
Anyway today it was being tweeted by porn accounts, so anyone using the #indyref tag was exposed to some surprise pornographic images. Nice eh? Don’t these folk realise that there are teenagers out there researching the referendum? My 16 year old is one of them.
We should all complain to Better Together, the no campaign have gone too far this time.
@Robert Peffers –
Hear hear.
This site is all about ‘who watches the watchers’ – it seems that the likes of Jim Murphy, Jackie Baillie, Johann Lamont, Wee Wullie Rennie, Ruth Davidson, Ian Davidson, Foulkes etc etc etc ad fucking nauseum have no idea how they are now perceived by the general ‘public’ in Scotland.
And they don’t care!
They simply don’t give a flying proverbial how we feel about them. They have claimed positions in ‘public service’ with the unshakeable belief that they are entitled to rule, dictate, and decide. The very notion that an upstart SNP/Green/SSP/LFI/WFI/genuinely ‘grassroots’ alliance could threaten their hegemony in any way is simply too bonkers to even contemplate.
The people of Scotland have been shaken awake by this referendum – in any event, we will not be ‘nodding-off’ again anytime soon.
I am thinking kendo that Cameron, Clegg and Milliband really are seriously worried. They are scared s***eless that we will win in September. All this bribe here, bribe there, bribe everywhere garbage from the big three just confirms one thing, and one thing only in my view, and it is this, despite all the bravado from their best mates in MSM and BBC YES are actually ahead but they can’t report it.
We all know that YES is ahead, just look at all the debates and meetings, practically every night where YES is ahead, then look at the rigged ,in my view, polling results.
This independence referendum is like a rolling stone rushing down a steep mountainside now and they can not stop it from smashing into their wee house at the bottom of the mountain no matter what they try. 😀
Ralph Topping..?
Not the utter cretin who was the SPL chairman until a couple of years ago ?
Senile maybe ?
Ladbrokes over55% Yes now only 6/1 and they odds will fall the closer we get to the day of Reckoning. Roll on the 18th . Vote Yes.
Ally says @ 4 August at 11:31pm
Check out the link at Ian Brotherhood says @ 4 August 2014 at 10.33 pm
Most popular bets
Over – 6/5
Over 55% – 6/1
Lesley-Anne says:
“I’m beginning to think that if we stay our ground that by the time the referendum happens in September the big three will effectively be offering us independence if we vote NO.”
Hilarious! Must be one of the top ten comments posted on Wings ever.
Lesley-Anne
Blair McDougall said on STV tonight that there are debates taking place all over Scotland.
I think he means the YES campaign are having debates all over Scotland.
The only NO debates that I can see happening are Jim Murphy’s Grand Tour Speeches. And they aren’t exactly going to plan.
Seen mair action at a cairn builders event….
I got 7/1 on over 55% on Saturday in Ladbrokes.
Now 6/1.
Thanks for that comment TheItalianJob I am trying, or as some would say EXTREMELY trying, but I aim to please. 😀
How nice of that Blair McDougall person to acknowledge WE are doing all the groundwork and therefore WINNING caz! 😛
Oh come on now geeo be fair, the ants are working flat out to shift all those rock thingys, no breaks no nothing 24 hours a day 7 days a week and for what … so folks like you can come along and slag them off I don’t know. 😀 Hope the ants don’t hear about this otherwise they’ll down tools and the Gretna Towers will never be finished in time! 😉
Ladbrokes is the only bookie out of the big 3 giving odds on % betting on the Scottish Referendum. Hills and Corals are not. If they were so sure of a no vote they would be taking our money. They know the score that Yes is going to be First past the Post. Vote Yes.
How low can the NO campaign go.
At least they’ve still got a sense of humour…
“Insiders at the pro-UK Better Together campaign said Mr Salmond would need to have “Alistair lying on the floor in the foetal position crying” before it would have an impact on polls, which have consistently put the No vote ahead.”
I’ll settle for the Flippers eye appendages to gain such a velocity from the blink/lie effect, as to actually take flight.
As for your Gandhi strapline quote Stu, can we assume we have arrived at the start of the “and then you win” phase ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11011773/Cameron-Miliband-and-Clegg-sign-up-for-more-Scottish-powers-ahead-of-TV-debate.html
Toppings essay is topping!
He has really covered the ground.
‘that UK officials in Westminster are making “deft use of the dark arts” to encourage business figures to lend support to the unionist cause. ‘
‘British economy is chronically unbalanced’
‘ no currency union …chancellor of the exchequer nailing his colours to a policy that makes no business sense.’
‘The real threat…British exit from the European single market.’
I shall print out some copies tomorrow to carry about with me for any undecideds.
I think it would be well worth distributing print outs as not so many people read the FT.
Defo @12.57am
DEVO PANIC:
Even more jam promised.The only time Westminster concedes any ground is when the SNP is on the rise and a threat to them.
The Yes campaign has got them on the run and still 6 Weeks to go.Their private polling must be giving them nightmares.
I wonder if Ruth, Johann and hapless Wullie were fully consulted, or ignored as usual.
ot but i just followed the link to the telegraph above and while there I agreed to do their survey. Just in case you understand.
Interestingly in the drop down where it asked which country i live in, England was listed as one of the choices as I scrolled past which was odd , scotland was not listed, it did however give the option to enter other and enter the correct answer rather than UK. The next question asked which country I thought I came from,england not listed this time. unfortunately it didn’t occur to check if wales ore irelend were listed till I started writing this, may be someone else can go look
Whole load of articles appearing about how Ireland managed independence and currency
Looks interesting as a solution it wasn’t a currency union,believe Ireland just continued to store tiatins at the back of England equal to money they printed
@geeo
He still is chairman of the SPL … You sure you aren’t suffering senility? Or perhaps just licking wounds at the old InFIRMary?
Mr Topping Seems to be a sensible soul to me !
Posting under this alias for obvious reasons, but I work for William Hill and while I’m not the biggest fan of who I work for (need a job, wish I could get a different one) or indeed not a hige fan of Topping’s bonuses recently while we staff have lost out, I’m rather proud that he has come out about this before the referendum.
We need highly esteemed business people like him coming out and showing up the beleaguered No campaign for what it is. There’s much needed common sense and logic from Ralph which can go some way to counteracting the brainwashed fear-led nonsense I’ve heard from some co-workers and friends. They still believe the MSM that us Yessers are just a small band of dedicated but ultimately foolish nationalists. Voices like Ralph can do wonders to make people like that sit up and maybe start thinking for themselves.
I’m vaguely proud that a guy from my employer has made the likelihood of a Yes vote that little more real for me personally.
Well who knew?
You wonder if they’ve ever told the truth about anything…
… ever.
Well said Mr Topping.
Defo
It is that precusrsor.
Then they try to make you think you have won?
Sanest comment so far of the jam tomorrow “proposals”
kendomacaroonbar says:
I saw that headline on Sky News Lesley Anne.
You know for a pro union team that brags about leading the polls, they are making all sorts of promises which theoretically, they don’t have to ?
A statement of the bleedi’n obvious.
Almost there.
Alexandra, where the hell have you been,
we’ve been worried sick ,
thats it girl your grounded until you learn a bit more responsiblity! ;(
BuckieBraes @10.41
As long as I’ll still be allowed salt in my porrige, everything else is just details. 🙂
geeo @ 11.58
geeo can you stay after choir practice it seems your not really getting the hang of singing from the same sheet thingy?
Kendomacaroonbar says
“You know for a pro union team that brags about leading the polls, they are making all sorts of promises which theoretically, they don’t have to ?”
So Im NOT the only one who noticed that?
Yougov rep on BBCNews discussing the debate tonight.
Seemingly Yes are only at 35% and have no chance of winning. It is becoming obvious that Yougov are campaigning for the union.
I was a little puzzled with this one as I tried to read it without my glasses.
I misread the last sentence as:
“And they know that rational governments tend to collaborate where there is a mutual economic interest – indeed, they expect nothing less.”
I don’t think Westminster is either national or rational, but that is an even more pressing reason for voting YES.
There is a small item still being overlooked –
No one can successfully govern without the consent of the governed.
No one can successfully govern without the consent of the governed.
A good many dictators will enjoy a wry smile at that notion.
More tax powers, again. If they genuinely had thought this was the right thing to do then it would have been in Calman. It wasn’t. It’s only being wheeled out today, again, because of the debate tonight. Just how stupid do they think we are?
And, anyway, I understand it’s income tax they are talking about, again. Cutting the block grant and using income tax to make up Edinburgh’s spending through income tax is a poisoned chalice. It is not a desirable extention to devolution, it is a devious attempt to discredit it.
It might be jam tomorrow, but it’s hemlock laced jam!
Vote YES and end all this nonsense.
@JDM and BTP
Heh, they just know what we’ve known for some time through the reports coming back from doorstepping and canvassing. There is an army of people out there who never see pollsters and they are the victims most affected by Westminster government. They are the people who have been criminalised by the media and the government and in a few weeks it’ll be their turn.
The one thing that has terrified HMG and those party careerists from day one has been the threat of a big electoral turnout, for that could mean only one thing, that the poorest and most disenfranchised of our society were motivated enough to hit back. The talk is that there has been a record registration. Is it any wonder they’re shakin’ in their boots? 🙂
Jo Armstrong/John McLaren are receiving vast sums of public money from the Union, which could affect a professional judgement, without declaring a personal interest.
The leaders of the UK Bankrupt parties have placed their signature on a blank sheet of paper saying it promises more tax raising powers and and free Mars Bars for all Scots who vote No. ‘You can bank that at the RBS,’ they add.
And a ‘newly’ establish think tank,’Scotland Is A Basket Case’ says its completely neutral, unbiased first report shows all Scots to be a million pounds a year poorer under independence.
Why accept a half baked loaf from London when you can have a healthy wholemeal feast with independence?
My local unionist Royal Mail sorter or postie hid the Scottish government information leaflet behind a pizza delivery flyer which was automatically binned and only retrieved after neighbour told me that had got the leaflet.
By contrast the UK government flyer was on top of the pile!
They just don’t get it, deliberately.
The majority of people in Scotland (70%), don’t just want tax raising powers. They want power over spending as well. Cutting your purse to suit your cloth. That is why Scotland will be much better off. A Democracy. Being governed by a majority of who they vote for. No taxation without representation.
Ken500 says:
They just don’t get it, deliberately.
The elephant in the room throughout has been FFA/DevMax/Home Rule. Yes, 70% of Scots consistently what at least this. ( ~50% now want to go that final step to Independence.)
I want independence, but as a compromise next step, FFA/DevMax/Home Rule would be a genuine step forward. With ALL tax and spend powers it has lots of advantages and none of the disadvantages of partial tax powers.
I think Salmond played a blinder on Cameron by getting Camer to be the one to take a second question off the ballot. I say this because full indpendence is a real possibilty and that is what we should focus on.
If there is a No win, I think FFA/DevMax/Home Rule should go back on the table as Plan B.
If there is a Yes win, then it’s a footnote in history.
They are not offering more powers. In their poisoned chalice,they are offering more responsibilities and burdens WITHOUT the benefit of more powers.
Power devolved is power retained.
I for one do not button up the back!
The polls narrative, predictably, is becoming the bedrock of the Unionist stance. It’s a stance that says you will lose because we tell you to lose. More worryingly, it’s a stance that could be used to legitimise a rigged ballot.
Never forget the look of astonishment on Jim Murphy’s face in the BBC studio after Glenrothes 2008. Even he had no clue what was happening with the sudden and completely unexpected Labour landslide. And no, he isn’t that good an actor.
Aww, thanks, Ian Brotherhood for saying such kind things about bookies boardmarkers. I worked as one when I was much younger. I was an itinerant boardmarker as it were in Willie Hills shops in Aberdeen. Great crack from the shop-floor. I was v young at the time and was fed sweeties and fags by the punters who sat along the stools at the front of the board platforms. Happy days, though I hated it all at the time.
My local sorting office put all the junk mail, including the trash from Westminster paid for by our money, inside the SG booklet, so it was pretty easy to pluck it all out and into the waiting C4 envelope with the freepost address.
And that was from Larkhall of all places. Thanks guys.
How do on-line bookies pay out?
Empty promises written on toilet paper and we all know where that ends up.
The stench of desperation especially with clegg making pledges….hahahahahahahahaha just too funny altogether.
100,000 barrels on each and every day – could that be why Cameron had his publicity-free visit to Shetland?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZlMLmbgQ4&feature=youtu.be
Living in the Stewartry (SW Scotland) Border TV is showing ‘Kids Behind Bars’ as the great debate is only on STV. I’ll manage to stream ASvAD onto the tele but how many of the soft Nos or undecideds will make the effort to do this.
I believe this nonsense with Border TV is a contributory factor in D&G returning our inept Tory MP.
@John Young
Borders area. Anyone with satellite can receive all the ITV regions. A lot of people in rural areas do have satellite, but how many will bother bothering to view this way is doubtful.
Anyone heard of this ‘Fiscal Affairs Scotland’ think tank before?
Its suddenly popped up in an article in the Torygraph today
Clegg couldn’t even deliver on his “no tuition fees” pledge, and now we are expected to believe him on tax raising powers? Aye, right.
Even if Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are telling the truth (that would be a first!), tax raising power on it’s own is no real power at all, it is responsibility without power.
Responsibility without power? No thanks.
And by the way, why is Prof. Curtice on the air, advising how Darling and Salmond have to perform tonight? Is he an expert debater? Is he a top PR consultant? I thought his expertise was opinion polls (although many would contest that)!
Another day, another UKOK fraud on the people of Scotland
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/scotland-promised-new-powers-no-vote-referendum
There’s thousands of examples of teamGBness and Scotland. Why does England’s rather spiffing motorway network end at Newcastle where the M1 suddenly switches from fast 6 lanes to a country road, all the way to Edinburgh.
HS2 is the next giant rip off for Scotland but they need our taxes and oil though.
Who are they trying to kid? Us.
I’ve just heard Radio 4 announce that if my girlfriend lets me do (“The Hucklebuck” – Ed), I’ll buy her a bag of chips.
Afterwards, not before.
Afterwards. Definitely.
Do we also get tax lowering powers.
Could someone in Dumfries be paying 5% lower tax than someone in Carlisle?
And why isn’t Nigel Farage signing this declaration on more tax powers for Scotland. After all, UKIP are sitting in third place in the UK polls at the moment.
Maybe it’s because UKIP want to take ALL powers away from the Scottish Parliament and back to Westminster.
As Nicola Sturgeon once said,
“They really do think we all button up the back”
o/t
re STV coverage of tonight’s debate.
How to watch
Broadcast
Salmond and Darling: The Debate will also be broadcast on STV from 8pm to 10pm on August 5. It will also be shown live in the south of Scotland covered by ITV’s Border region on Channel 3.
The debate programme will be repeated on STV Glasgow on Tuesday from 11.15pm and again on Wednesday August 6 at 1.30pm.
Online
Viewers in Scotland, from the rest of the UK, and across the world will be able to watch the debate online with a globally available livestream on the STV Player. On Tuesday night, the normal requirement to register with a Scottish post code, will be lifted.
The debate is repeated on STV Glasgow at 11.15pm. If you’re not in the Glasgow area you can still watch the repeat on The STV Glasgow live stream. Just go to The STV Player and click on STV Glasgow.
A full replay of the debate for a worldwide audience is expected to be available within hours of the end of the programme on the STV Player.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/285075-alex-salmond-and-alistair-darling-prepare-to-clash-in-stv-debate/
.
Read. Britnat CIF and it’s all the usual whines, “so you’re going to vote Yes just for better this and that are, what about the most successful union ever then?”
It has been a successful union, for England.
They’ve all been successful unions, for England and across the planet. But none of the countries that were once in a union with England, have ever had a referendum to rejoin England, in another one of these most successful unions.
We never had a choice either until now which is why they worked so hard to wipe out Scotland. Did it all work?
Jim Sillars / Margo mobile’s first outing at Govan shopping centre car park 10.30am today.
If your out n about get along and support the cause !
They can offer anything they want, whatever it is you can bet it is in Westminster’s favour. The small print would need to be examined, by the Euro President, Obama,The united Nations, the Pope, er God!. Before I would believe anything they say. This is just to try and give Darling a boost tonight, so he can spout this shite to the nation.
They are serial deceivers, that is their main function for the British state. Offer away, you will still be told to GTF!
I think this shows we are creeping ahead in the polls,
Interesting stuff. I’ve been dying to put £20 on an over 55% win in dribs and drabs for ages, but I’ve never been in a bookies’ in my life and I’m too scared to go in one, to be perfectly honest.
In other news, I was discussing having a social for the AS vs AD debate tonight and suggested we could turn it into a drinking game – every time Flipper gets either enraged or mock outraged, or his blinking flurries start up, then you down a measure of whisky. Then I realised I didn’t have enough whisky in the house for that. I don’t think there’s enough whisky in Scotland for that.
How to set up a victory, tell everyone unless Darling is put thought a mincer and turned into a cheese burger with fries, then it will be considered a victory for Darling.
@galamcennalath says: 5 August, 2014 at 8:06 am:
“It might be jam tomorrow, but it’s hemlock laced jam!”
Oh! For the love o the wee man! Sigh!
Could they not spare us this old, “Generous Gift”, chestnut again? I was shooting this load of blethers down years ago. I had a regular, (dare I use the expression), “True Blue”, Gordon Brown Labourite foot-soldier here in Fife who regularly attempted to convert me to NO. I told him then that the only Scottish government that would be daft enough to ever use such powers would be one involving a Labour majority or Labour in coalition majority. It took him quite some time to absorb the truth and even longer to admit it.
If the SG increases the tax in Scotland then Westminster reduces the Scottish Block Grant by exactly the same sum. Scotland is not a pound better off but would have to fork out to finance the scheme of collecting, policing and prosecuting offenders of the tax. As for the idiocy that it would encourage the SG to be more prudent, then how do they explain the simple truth that the SG, under the SNP, have balanced the books every year they hold office?
If ever there was a hare-brained idea this combined Britnat fit-up is it. Just how stupid do these numpties believe, ”The People of Scotland”, are?
Edward says:
“Anyone heard of this ‘Fiscal Affairs Scotland’ think tank before?”
Absolutely nothing on google prior to this week! Looks like it’s been created just to feed misimformation to the MSM. Almost inevitable that BT would do things like this. It’s their style.
A bit of a VoteNoBorders affair. No real substance.
The bookies have shortened the odds on a yes vote. they are not often wrong in their calculations
Sorry O/T (again) but The Wright Stuff on channel 5 at the moment discussing Sir Robert Winston’s report that suggests we (in England I presume, it didn’t say) might soon need to pay £200 A VISIT to see the doctor. As they said Winston is no fool, so this could be on the cards.
Scots need to know this is happening here.
Also, Rev sorry maybe I am being a bit old fashioned and showing my age, but Leo Foyle at 9.18 is out of order.
Vote no or else Guardian-
“Jackie Baillie, Scottish Labour’s shadow health secretary, said these findings added to the pressure on Salmond to defend his economic predictions for independence in tonight’s debate. “Expert after expert lines up to explain the threat of separation to our public finances, Alex Salmond will have to explain why he is right, and they are all wrong,” she said.”
Eh, so if he”s so wrong and they’re so right, what are all those experts doing GIVING him more powers for, dear Labour in Scotland?
And why is another ConDem bloater like Carmicheal stating vote NO and that’s the end of it for good with UKOK ending any and all devo, for teamGB .
@John Young
From BBC website thsi morning:
Debate in Borders region
09:16: The debate between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling will be broadcast on STV from 8pm on 10pm.
It will also be shown live in the south of Scotland covered by ITV’s Border region on Channel 3.
Viewers in Scotland, from the rest of the UK, and across the world will be able to watch the debate online with a globally available livestream on the STV Player. On Tuesday night, the normal requirement to register with a Scottish post code, will be lifted.
Hymnn of Westminster Troughers.
Our Cups full of running over, running over, running over.
2016.
Awe fer Fksaky, who,s turned off the Taps.
( and the Trumperter played it louder )
A major league liar answered this “Why didn’t you build consensus for “more powers” already?” with this “We need to decide to stay in the UK before we build consensus for more powers.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-independence-referendum-alistair-carmichael-twitter-qa
So less than 4 weeks later, carmicheal’s fraud over consensus before MORE POWERS is ditched over night and after Cameron goes to Shetland to check out Scots oil that runs out in 2017 according to another fraud in action this evening.
Carmicheal also tweet answered this one
How do the Scotland Office plan to unite the country after this deeply decisive referendum when we vote No?
With
“By concentrating on building consensus for more powers. We believe Scotland’s better off as part of the UK and the indyref gives people the chance to decide Scotland’s future. We need to deliver on promises and more powers for the Scottish Parliament.”
Less than 4 weeks is a long time between the ears of bloated troughers.
Yes, meindevon agree with you, that comment broke the thread, not needed here and certainly not at this time in the morning
@John Young – from bbc website:
Debate in Borders region
09:16: The debate between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling will be broadcast on STV from 8pm on 10pm.
It will also be shown live in the south of Scotland covered by ITV’s Border region on Channel 3.
Viewers in Scotland, from the rest of the UK, and across the world will be able to watch the debate online with a globally available livestream on the STV Player. On Tuesday night, the normal requirement to register with a Scottish post code, will be lifted.
Odd things happening with posts this morning.
Your missing a trick here. Topping is hedging his bets and trying to get on side as he knows an Indy Scotland might be more restrictive on gambling particularly FOBT( see white paper) than sympathetic Westminster.
For a little light relief. Captain Calamity strikes again…
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/shetland-in-battle-to-block-vote.24946401
I’ve said this before, can’t seem to find it though, but I am pretty confident we won’t see a poll with Yes in the lead, unless it is by Yes Scotland.
They are constantly changing the weightings to suit the no campaign, the bookies odds won’t change much as they are based on YouGov odds, not Survation.
Panelbase have changed their methodology to Yougov’s as well.
They don’t want the pound to collapse.
O/T but here’s the latest wheeze to stymie Scottish independence by levelling down Scottish devolution to that of mere UK regionalism in the event of a No vote:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/conservatives-charm-offensive-north-of-england-george-osborne
Could it be that Osborne and Cameron have a plan to use the much suspected recently discovered oil windfall west of Shetland to fund this?
Nice one! Use our own money and resources to cut us back down to size! Scotland a region like Yorkshire!
I mind Cpt Calamity, BBC in Scotland had him on demanding independence for his Shetland property. An eccentric Englishman in action?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hill_(Captain_Calamity)
Comic relief
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/dec/15/shetland-stuart-hill-community-service
Could William Hill be in favour of Scotland outside the UK??
William Hill plans to maintain its online betting base in Gibraltar despite a tax clampdown that will cost it tens of millions of pounds.
The company is one of many bookmakers that has set up internet operations in Gibraltar, allowing it to sign up British gamblers while benefiting from a benign local tax regime.
However, Britain is planning to impose a 15pc duty on bookmakers’ online winnings from British customers with effect from December 2014, a move that is expected to yield around £300m a year.
@ MeInDevon & Alan Mackintosh,
Yes, far too crude. Too tetchy this morning. Sorry.
@Edward says: 5 August, 2014 at 9:13 am:
“Anyone heard of this ‘Fiscal Affairs Scotland’ think tank before?”
Let’s see,
Fiscal
Affairs
Scotland.
ThinkTank.
or Fast.
So they are now attempting to woo us with a Fast one.
They will probably be incorporated into another ThinkTank called Look Out Our Scottish Electorate or LOOSE
@heedtracker
I cant read the words ‘Jackie Baillie, Scottish Labour’s shadow health secretary’ without chuckling and sighing at the same time!
I smell panic, they know something they do not want made public.
Fact is they are proven liars to a high degree. We can NEVER trust them, Westminster’s facade is getting mighty shaky.
I think if we raise our spirits and work hard to convert,we WILL win.
Ralph Topping customers service.
Try and set up a Labroke Account. Will not go through.
Phone and set up an account by telephone.
Try to place a bet. Despite phone calls, only accept lower amount. It will not accept. Advice to do it on-line. Try to do it on-line more problems. Phone customer services. Will not accept password. Difficulty accessing Referendum over 55%. Bets are suspended. More phone calls to customer service. Strange unsolicited mobile phone calls Advised account is suspended unless copies of address, driving licence passport are sent.
Ladbrokes ‘on-line betting is easy’ – ‘Bet Now’. Not likely. International business? Aye right.
Bloody (foreign) Multinationals tax evading, lose £millions of business.
Ref tonight’s debate we all need to keep an eagle eye on events, after it is over if we see something that skews the debate towards no, we need to forcefully get it out across social media.
Bernard is wily, comments he has been making recently put him in the no camp, so he really needs watching. We are just the people to do that, if you can record the debate, anything that looks biased should be out there ASAP.
Ralph Topping is a time wasting crook
heraldnomore
You mean the 100,000 barrels/day, that BP are laying this 22″ pipe for right now ? (page 6)
http://www.seafish.org/media/1199821/issue_14_2014_oil_gas.pdf
Ken500 says:
” how low can they go?”
There is NO bottom to their deceit, it has always been like that, we see it now with the tools we now have, one of these is our Rev of course. They are falling apart, just like their tactics.
Ken500. He may well be, but right now he’s on our side.
Account cancelled
Ken, I’ve placed a bet on 55% over with Ladbrokes, had no problems.
BTW Ken500. He worked for Hills, not ‘brokes.
Has the Rev or someone with an artistic flair ( not the Rev hasnt any of that of course) compiled an official Darling Bullshit Bingo card for tonights debate yet?
Its one way to keep everyone awake during his speeches, which even the worlds most respected man John Curtice suggested would be as long and boring as possible!
@ desimond, Baillie is one of Project Fear’s biggest stars but christ knows who she thinks she’s Been kidding.
Bailie says Salmond economy plans bad, so “give” him more powers, Carmicheal says vote no first, then give them more powers. This morn, give them more powers, before they’ve voted…
At the very least, Project Fear’s UKOK been consistently inconsistently confusing, a mess of lies
Wonder what they’ll all do after 18th Sept, run disastrous marketing campaigns, lollipop man Carmicheal, “I used to be Secretary of State for Scotland children” ” I campaigned to get the job scrapped, but then they gave me it, so I had a good run trying to con your parents for a few months, before they kicked it in to touch for good, rule Britannia children”
Ralph Topping is on Ralph Topping’s side.
Carmichael is retiring. Guilty as charged.
Would Hills be any different?
Will try Hills
Comment open on bbc article on more powers to Scotland from the unionists
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28654142
Have fun.
Press and journal also giving massive boost for Cpt Calamity here in Aberdeen, with very serious Shetland independence headline “petition”, in blue ink for some reason.
P&J wet farts are an odd Bettertogether crew much like STV/BBC but they really do know no depths when it comes to attacking Scottish democracy. Every other kind of democracy is fantastic if you’re the P&J, including running independence for Shetland campaigns like Cpt Calamity, it’s just that they totally despise Scottish democracy.
Ralph Topping has most of a page in today’s Sun telling us why he is voting YES.
As he has just retired as Chief Executive at William Hills Bookies I’m sure he knows all about those fabulous £200,000 and £400,000 bets on a NO vote – and knows the odds in no way reflect the actual position.
Ladbrokes offering 4/1 a YES win is ludicrous. Obviously they believe the nonsense YouGov polls and ignore all the others reflecting the real positions.
On the basis of all the other polls the odds should 4/5 NO and 11/8 YES
O/T Baroness Warsi Resigns saying the Governments approach to the Crisis in Gaza is Morally Indefensible.
Massie jr, trying, & failing to equate us with the EU exiters. He’s playing squarely to a southern audience, apparently fed up with the Referendum.
He certainly isn’t. Risen from nowhere, and £’s in on all the coverage he’s been given. That fakey posh voice really grates.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/08/the-argument-about-britain-in-europe-is-just-the-same-as-the-argument-about-scotland-in-britain/
A wee taster
“The only time we were net recipients [in EU budgetary terms] was in the referendum year, 1975. Reckon they’ll try the same trick again? Cf: We always put in more than we get out. Which is no fair. Also: don’t forget London’s fondness for bribery.
Iceland to grow 3.1% this year, 3.4% in 2015. Eurozone 1.2% and 1.7%. Still crowing, Eurocrats? Cf: Arc of Prosperity, motherfuckers.”
Quite !
Hills – easier, more professional website – but still won’t go through. No accept
Ralph Topping – looking for a job?
Ladbrokes 6/1 over 55%
Sun hedging their bets
Just checked online with Oddschecker. Down to 3/1 with some of them. Odds on YES generally shortening in most bookies now. Hills is still offering 9/2 which is ridiculous.
It is always worth remembering that YouGov polling on most of the 2011 Scottish Election campaign was so wrong it was laughable. It is owned by an avowed Labour supporter
The Spanish Government Has Frozen all Arms Exports to Israel because of whats happening in Gaza. It would be good if Westminster could do the same.
Imagine being 6 weeks out from an election,and your main policy is just saying “more powers”. Nothing definite,just “more powers”. You would be on a loser,who would vote for you?
Beware of crooks bearing Gifts
The FM will win the debate and handle himself well. Will this affect tomorrows headlines? Doubt it. I suspect most have been written already.
The real clincher is how Darling handles himself under the pressure. If he collapses on live telly it won’t matter what the press says, everyone will have seen the collapse. If he’s simply badly shaken this will still work well, but the press will try to draw the image of a draw in people’s minds.
This is going to come down to how easy a ride Mr Darling is given. Will Mr Ponsonby ask the questions on live telly that we’ve been wanting to see the meeja ask for the past three years? If he does then I have no doubt that Mr Darling and BT will be in even deeper bother than they are now. Contrast with an FM and government that has done nothing but nothing but come under heavy fire over the same period. I know who I’d have money on to have answers at the ready. 🙂
At least 20% more voters turning out 18th Sept, 20% more than have ever voted in any election and it’s extremely unlikely these voters are suddenly deciding to vote no and save a nonsense union they don’t ever vote for.
They might be lots of Scots unionists, if you’re a big fat liar in UKOK HQ Blysthwood Square, you’ll say they are, as you’re bussing in paid activists from England to distrusted UKOK pamphlets etc, but they’re not.
The entire BT campaign has come down to 6 things:
Fear through threats and false predictions.
Personality attacks.
A little sickly love bombing.
Nostagia, for mythical past times.
Pushing gingoism as something desirable.
More devolved powers, maybe, perhaps.
It reads like the manifesto of a loony fringe group who will all lose their deposits for sure!
@Macart
I have my doubts that darling will be put under any stress by stv. After all they have continued to press the FM and Nicola over the slightest issue for so long and let the unionists get away with dodgy assertions.
I lost faith in the media a long time ago.
Good posting on tonight’s debate from Craig Murray with some interesting observations on the weighting methodology used by polling companies for the indy ref.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/08/liveblogging-the-great-debate/#comments
From the Herald on 3rd July:
A NEW economic think tank has been launched to succeed the respected Centre for Public Policy for Regions.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/launch-for-new-fiscal-studies-think-tank.24653665
Members of Unionist Parties are voting YES.
Tory Councillors are voting YES
LibDem Councillors are voting YES
LibDem, Tory and LibDem voters are voting YES. That is being left out of the weighing, along with people who never vote in Elections who will vote YES.
So Clegg is also promising more powers… expect him to sign a pledge so we know it’s nonsense.. it’s almost as if there is an air of desperation creeping in , oh dear 🙂
@heedtracker
I took a picture of Scotland office entrance on saturday and posted on twitter as :
Prime London Location.
Available to rent 2016
I was upset i hadnt had the thought beforehand and printed out then placed an actual advert upon those big blue doors.
Media seems to already playing the debate will not have an effect, see BBC and local radio stations.
It’s nonsense.
If we really want to get close to 60% then Salmond must stick to the ‘who do you trust more with the running of SCOTLAND, Westminster or Holyrood’
A similar question with Panelbase, got 60% saying Scottish parliament, majority in all age groups.
Stick to that and we’ve won.
Darling has no come back from that, as they’ve already shown this to be true from devolving health and education.
It’s going to be fun.
p.s heedtracker, I’ve one such zoomer in my workplace, voting no, never voted before, he is english by birth and feels he would be a ("Tractor" - Ed) to vote yes, he hates westminster, I honestly can’t fathom it. Like hitting my head off a brick wall.
@ desimond, Britnat hysterics say Cons like Osborne want to reign over England without those bally Scotch whingers and when they sacked Michael Moore for a big thick bloated LinDem hypocrite, they may be right. Help me Rhona, wheezy puff,
@Macart
Darling will be given the easiest ride possible. I await no facts or figures questions and outpourings of vacant promises of further talks and of course constant reminders about our brave brave boys and girls in uniform, past, present and future.
On ADs notes it will simply say:
If in doubt, get the fear and patriotism out.
Craig Murray is right. Everything has been loaded in favour of Unionism for tonight’s debate:
– Ipsos Mori poll announced at the start to frame Yes on the defensive – check
– Ipsos Mori select the audience members with questionable methodology – check
– Trailer from Ponsonby on yesterday’s news that Salmond is ‘desperate’ for a game changer – check
– Trailer from Ponsonby about the ‘large lead’ enjoyed by the No camp on yesterday’s news – check
– MSM uniting to present the view that if Darling remains upright after two hours it will be a historic triumph for Unionism – check
– MSM uniting to say that even if the hated Salmond ‘wins’ the debate it will have no effect on polls – check
And yet, and yet.. this just shows how absolutely terrified they are.
X_sticks
Had a wee look at EBC comments. Lots of english folk bleating about all our handouts … same old same old. Not worth getting involved in.
Comments also talking about rise in english nationalism. Have been saying for a while that if Scotland doesn’t get it’s finger out and take independence the chances are that england will beat us to it.
That would say it all about this ‘region’ of ours if it came to pass.
OT. Facebook users, check your account profiles. Mine had BT down as a ‘like’ and I hadn’t put it there. Hacking going on?
@Nana and Desimond
Yeah, that’s pretty much how I read it too, but we’ll see. One or two journos have gone off piste in recent times resulting in the blinkometer going off the scale. We know he’ll get wellied under the FM question session and there’s always the chance that when it comes to audience questions there might be the chance of another star like that lady who skewered Mr Murphy so well.
My hope is that just for once we have an adjudicator willing to put the hard questions to BT under the spotlight of live telly where they too will be under some scrutiny.
This morning two items were delivered by the postie. A folded, double-sided A4 from HM Government. It contains 5 statements. Every one an already proven lie. They claim, “More support for public Services”; “One economy , more jobs”; “Cheaper Bills”; and “Best of both Worlds”.
The other a well produced, 6 double sided pages A4 booklet packed with well stated benefits of an independent Scotland.
The HM Government obviously have set out their stall to appeal to the already uninformed/misinformed.
The SG are selling the better product but like the TV Ad style of advertisement so often bear no real resemblance to the actual product the HM Gov ads bear little resemblance to the real product they offer. For example they quote that each Scot has £1400 per capita per annum but neglect to show both sides of the formula where the missing bit shows that each Scot contributes more per annum by quite a considerable margin.
Looks like their aim is to retain the brainless, misinformed naysayers who are totally unable to understand actual figures for there is nothing in those five claims that would attract an undecided person.
David Smith
That’s being going on for some time now
Ive had pro independence relatives pissed of that they have been shown as ‘liking’ BT
All you need to do is go to the BT page and unlike and unfollow 🙂
The ONLY poll that matters is the poll on the 18th of September, anything else from the MSM is smoke and mirrors!!
heedtracker
“At least 20% more voters turning out 18th Sept, 20% more than have ever voted in any election and it’s extremely unlikely these voters are suddenly deciding to vote no and save a nonsense union they don’t ever vote for.”
Excellent point.
Heedtracker, you’re on fire this morning. lol keep them comin.
One thing Darling has no control over is Alex Salmond having the final reply to the audience. I think they tossed a coin or something and AS won.
And Alex Salmond knows how to finish off a debate. It will be a rousing last few minutes to the debate and Darling will just have to stand their and take it. (With No Reply)
@chalks, have you seen the English Scots for Yes page on FB? https://www.facebook.com/groups/englishscotsforyes/?fref=ts They’ve also got a Twitter accout: https://twitter.com/EnglishScot4YES Maybe show that to your work collegue? There are plenty of us from south of the border voting yes
Macart @ 11.58
“My hope is that just for once we have an adjudicator willing to put the hard questions to BT under the spotlight of live telly where they too will be under some scrutiny”.
Hopium is about all you’ve got there mate.
I won’t even bother to watch it at all. Love to be proved wrong but I feel I could predict just about everything about how it’s going to be just another propaganda assault on the truth and the facts.
Training Day 11.52 has it about right I think, but also including the bit about them being “absolutely terrified”. They are.
@Cindie – Yes I’ve seen that and sent him numerous articles on a yes being good for north of england.
Like I said, like hitting my head off a brick wall.
I cant read the words ‘Jackie Baillie, Scottish Labour’s shadow health secretary’ without chuckling and sighing at the same time!
———–
Like that episode of Yes Prime Minister when they give the Minister for Health job to a coughing chain smoker, Jackie Baillie is clearly no stranger to a sausage supper (tweaked that one a bit!)and not someone who should be lecturing anyone on health matters.
@chalks, some people are beyond help! I’ve met several people like him. However, I’m getting more hopeful by the day that they’ll be well outnumbered.
Robert Peffers at 12.11 says
“Looks like their aim is to retain the brainless, misinformed naysayers who are totally unable to understand actual figures for there is nothing in those five claims that would attract an undecided person.”
In many ways that is the key. The impression is steadily building that those who believe Better Together are the stupid ones. We have to work on that
I’m starting to get the feeling that some businesses, otherwise opposed to independence, think yes is going to win, and ergo are hedging their bets.
William Hill – no odds on over 55%. – 4/1 YES Limit NK
Coral – no odds on over 55% – 4/1 YES limited to £200 only any addition 7/2
Ladbrokes YES 4/1 Limit NK – YES over 55% 6/1