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Wings Over Scotland

Neck and neck

Posted on May 05, 2020 by

We’re so underwhelmed and nonplussed by this information that to be honest it barely even occurred to us to write it up, but here we go anyway:

A brand-new poll commissioned last week by Wings from Panelbase shows Yes and No in an absolute dead heat. (Including don’t-knows it’s 46-46.) Normally you get a handful of votes in it but a tie when rounded off to whole percentages or one decimal place, but this was right down the middle – 457 votes each way out of 1086.

On the one hand it’s a good figure given that the Unionist press has spewed out a non-stop stream of stories for the past month asserting that the coronavirus kills the case for independence.

Alternatively, you could say it was a disappointing figure since the UK now officially has Europe’s worst death toll for COVID-19, something that’s almost entirely down to the UK government’s abysmal handling of the crisis and the Scottish Government’s blend of constitutional inability to diverge from Westminster’s strategy, and its reluctance to do so in the areas where it can, lest it be criticised by the media.

(We’ll have more poll data on the respective governments’ virus tactics during the rest of the week. Some of it is very odd.)

But the bottom line is that these figures are pretty much business as usual. Support for independence has fluctuated within a very narrow range since 2014, and eeksy-peeksy has been the norm for some time.

As this site has been saying for the past couple of years, only a campaign centred on an actual referendum will shift the dial significantly, and there’s still absolutely no sign of the SNP leadership having any kind of plan to make that happen. Pete Wishart MP tweeted this a couple of days ago:

But if a (non-scientific) poll currently running on our Twitter feed is anything to go by, indy supporters didn’t sail up the Clyde on a banana boat to swallow that old cobblers.

So we hope you’ll forgive our ennui about poll results that 18 months ago we’d have regarded as both important and encouraging. Right now they just don’t feel like they matter a damn, and we don’t mean because of the coronavirus.

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  1. 05 05 20 20:57

    Neck and neck | speymouth

130 to “Neck and neck”

  1. X_Sticks says:

    It’s a sair fecht, richt enou’.

    Whaur’s yer bottle Scotland?

  2. Proud Cybernat says:

    Did the poll include 16-17 year olds, EU nationals?

  3. ScottieDog says:

    It’s the sneering at folk having the audacity to seek a 3rd Indy party at holyrood. If we are in the union for the long haul (and holyrood still exists) I want another party to hold scotgov to account but not just because they despise ‘the nats’

  4. Bob Costello says:

    I think this might be somewhat worrying for Nicola Sturgeon, as I am sure she has been banking on this pandemic to dampen support for independence, It was very notable how she almost immediately called a halt to any independence campaigning.
    Now she has this proof of a still strong, wish for independence, questions to answer over her hanging on the coattails of Johnson’s disastrous pandemic policy, together with the looming backlash of the Salmond case, hopefully, she will take all of this into consideration very soon and pop off to whatever job she has lined up on the World stage and let someone else get on with the job the SNP have forgotten about this last 5 years or so.

  5. Doug says:

    It’s encouraging. Especially after all the “God save the queen” verses we’ve been made to sing. “We’ll meet again” coming next.

  6. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Did the poll include 16-17 year olds, EU nationals?”

    Yes, just like every Panelbase poll for about the last six years has.

  7. dakk says:

    UK now officially has Europe’s worst death toll for COVID-19,


    Was never a fan of care homes anyway.

    All those velour chairs smelling of ammonia.

  8. callmedave says:

    I was right…I told her in doors it was probably a Wings poll as she was muttering the other day filling it in. 🙂

    50 / 50 Hmmm!

    I think a bit of Leonard Cohen hits the spot. Hallelujah! 🙁

  9. Merkin Scot says:

    Business as usual included digging up Julie Andrews to opine about the meaning of V.E. Day for her from 75years ago.
    Praise to the BBC :
    ‘Converting all your sounds of woe
    Into Hey nonny, nonny.’ No.

  10. awizgonny says:

    Even taking the incumbency factor into account, boosted by the emergency situation, that is not very impressive.

    Yes vote may increase once all the enormous Covid19 cockups by the UK government is revealed in the future, but TBH I wouldn’t bet the farm on that.

    The Scottish electorate is a cautious animal, and the SNP know this. So it’s putting its money on even more gradualism than before, increased devolution (along with other parts of the UK) as a consequence of the effects of Covid19 on government, maybe even FFI, so Independence comes with a whimper rather than a bang.

    The trouble with that is that there will be no substantial rethink of how Scotland governs itself, how it sees its place in the world. It’ll be just a chip off the old block – and we’re getting previews of that now from Scotgov.

    What’s the point of Independence if things just stay the same, with Holyrood rather than Westminster in charge? I’ts nothing more than a flag.

  11. Capella says:

    Well the glass is half full. James Kelly certainly sees it as a very positive increase in support for independence.
    If there was a Holyrood election just now the SNP would win a majority of seats.

    Given the relentless media animosity to all things independent,and constant Rule Britannia jingoism (we’ll be spared the Albert Hall Festival of Britain Proms this year I hope) which will rise to a crescendo on VE day, I think a 50/50 split is excellent.

  12. thingy says:

    Comfy Slippers, get yer Comfy Slippers here… two furra pownda…

    Pete will be playing keyboards at weddings and such like after independence. He’s in it for the money, not his country.

  13. Republicofscotland says:

    The English government will never willingly grant an S30 order, to hold a indyref and the SNP government (present hierarchy) will never get round to holding one either.

  14. Big Jock says:

    Just in quote from Wishy Washy Pete: ” We must build support to 60% before we have a referendum”. Repeat ad nauseum.

  15. With dimwits like Wishy Washy Whishart in charge of stratagy to independence,our best hope is England voting for independence from Scotland.

    Can just see Wishy Washy landing at Edinburgh airport in 20 years time waving a bit of paper like Neville Chamberlain,

    ” great news the`ve agreed to think about having a discussion on the topic of maybe reviewing policy on section 30 in the near future”.

  16. Capella says:

    Twitter polls aren’t serious. They just confirm the bias of the twitterers. Good fun though.

  17. Mist001 says:

    Boris Johnson is surprisingly popular. Even though todays media is reporting that the UK has the highest mortality rates of Coronavirus in Europe, Johnson could make the most monumental, unimaginable fuck up concerning Scotland and that still wouldn’t shift the independence vote.

    People, including Scots, simply don’t view him in the same way as they viewed Cameron or May.

    People, really, really like him and they’ll forgive him for anything. Our shot at Scottish independence has been and gone. We’ve been handed MULTIPLE opportunities on a plate to move it forward but we’ve failed to do so.

    The fault for that lies firmly and squarely at the shag me shoes shod feet of Mrs. Murrell.

    This poll is going to be the norm for the foreseeable future simply because of Johnsons perceived popularity.

  18. msean says:

    We need more pro independence parties on the list. I’ll be voting in favour of Independence favouring parties. Feet to the fire and all that.

  19. Auld Rock says:

    FGS, will some of you listen to yourselves for a change and engage your brain’s before connecting to your typing fingers. Let me ask a simple question, how are you going to organize a campaign, meetings, marches, etc while Scotland is in ‘LOCK-DOWN’?

    What we should be doing is planning to be ready to restart the campaign at the first opportunity once things on the virus front start to show signs of improvement for believe me there will be changes emanating from Westminster and it would seem sensible to get all the changes/pain over in one go.

    I even think that some of the contributors to these posts are unionist ‘Fifth Columnists’!!!

  20. Tinto Chiel says:

    OFGS, Capella @8.06, what’s the point of racking up seats and mandates if there is no DRIVE for independence? Only 50% after the most catastrophic (Brexit plus Covid) Tory party ever?

    We’ve been told for years NS had a PLAN and had gamed all the options, she was really smart and you’ll see, just wait and you’ll see.

    And so I dutifully did the canvassing in December, froze/drenched my gonads off and waited until the end of January 2020 and got nothing apart from some mealy-mouthed crapola about a “wildcat referendum” that wouldn’t have been out of place coming out of Jackson Carlaw’s mouth.

    Of course maybe the PLAN was to unleash The Alphabet Sisters and remove Alex Salmond for ever from the equation.

    That went well, eh?

    Complete party reform is required or a real independence party needs to be created. We’re going nowhere with the current cabal.

  21. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Still half of Scottish folk are wise enough to want to live in a normal country.

    To be fair I thought it would be a few points higher with the deaths caused by the UKOK regime’s handling of the COVID scandal.

    Clearly at lot of people still reading the Mail and watching the BBC.

    The change to a majority will be slow, unless the SNP start a good campaign or the Tories introduce workhouses.

    Placing some in workhouses still wouldn’t change their minds, quite sad really.

  22. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘It is almost impossible to keep a nation in a constitutional arrangement against its clearly expressed will.’

    But, clearly, it isn’t impossible to make sure they have a devil of a job getting ‘permission’ to express it.

    Eh, Pete?

  23. mike cassidy says:


    Is it Johnson being so popular that sees a 3% drop in Tory support for the next Holyrood elections?

  24. stewartb says:

    Yes a disappointing polling result and yes probably unlikely to shift enough until an overt campaign is underway – and that needs national ‘leadership’ from somewhere to build upon the undoubted substantial grassroots’ resources and commitment.

    But then we have this from Bob Costello @ 7:27 pm

    “I think this might be somewhat worrying for Nicola Sturgeon, as I am sure she has been banking on this pandemic to dampen support for independence, It was very notable how she almost immediately called a halt to any independence campaigning.”

    Really? Whilst glad to learn what Mr Costello is so ‘sure’ of, candidly, I think it’s perfectly possible to construct an almost diametrically opposite proposition with ease.

  25. jfngw says:

    I see Lord Wishart of Hubris is out and about on twitter, it’s not an edifying sight, his ego is the size of a planet. He doesn’t need your votes just now so he sneers at you.

    He must be a pretty rich man by now, all those years of slumming it at Westminster, Scotland’s Jacob Rees-Wishart.

  26. Muscleguy says:

    I agree that absent a proper sanctioned campaign with a point, ie a referendum at the end of it then the polls will show very little change.

    For one thing folk pretty much expect what we’re getting from the Westminster Tories. Few are surprised by it all. it is to be expected, best hunker down and ride it out. So why think there might be a way out? Boris has said No and Sturgeon is blinkered and/or thinks all our heids zip up the back. So there is no prospect of an indyref in the near future.

    The main I’m thinking about other than keeping my head financially above water is how I prove I’m immune to the virus (for however long that might last). For one thing being able to do so could well improve my job prospects. Give me a customer facing job, no problem, no fear and I say that with a Biomed PhD.

    BTW I’ve down RT-PCR in my time but much use is that knowledge doing me under the lack of testing going on. Anyone got a spare PCR machine and cash for some kits? We could set up our own testing for money.

  27. The Buchan Loony says:

    I quite like the idea of a march with social distancing…if we all keep two metres apart the front of the march would be in Glasgow when the tail end was still just leaving Aberdeen!

  28. S.Perspective says:

    So if the results don‘t matter, why did you conduct the poll?

  29. twathater says:

    Peter A Bell’s blog has post on another indy party
    I commented this would be my dream team what do people think , I would also like to include Liz G as common sense referee , sorry for length

    I have been banging on for a long time that we NEED another independence party , but I personally don’t want one that is focused on anything other than indy , independence is the SOLE and most important policy or should be of ANY new party forming , we don’t need confusion or opinions to deflect from the cause or the target at this time
    Once independence is achieved any and all new parties can come forward with their views and mandates on how they are going to transform our Scotland

    TBH I would prefer a party to be formed consisting of our most prominent bloggers eg Peter A Bell , Grouse beater , Craig Murray , Stuart Campbell , Jeggit , Lesley Riddoch , Gordon Ross ( indycar ) , Lorna Campbell , Maria Carnero , Gordon McIntyre Kemp , Roddie ( Barrhead Boy ) Paul Kavanah , Tommy Sheridan and any others I have unfortunately missed out .

    Again TBH most of these people have travelled the length and breadth of Scotland to illustrate and educate people to the benefits of independence , every last one of them wear their hearts on their sleeve , every last one has unbridled passion and drive to reach the target of independence and has worked tirelessly often in daunting circumstances to achieve that target , and from reading their views and opinions , although they have respect for NS and the SNP and could work with them in parliament their loyalty is to Scotland and independence

    I know that some of them ( sorry ) have large egos and can be self opinionated but I believe in the interests of Scotland’s independence they would work together in forced harmony for the cause

    I would also say that anyone who is interested in independence already knows who these people are and the tireless work they have done to further the cause , we may not always agree with their views or comments but we know that their commitment is undisputed , they also have the benefit of not being overawed by anyone and will not be slow in ensuring that NS and the SNP prioritise the independence cause in whatever way necessary

  30. Millennium says:

    Oh Dear.
    English medical advisor who forgot to teach his Dick about social distancing.

    This guy let his balls rule his brain.

    And will surely be the lead story on every news bulletin for days to come,,,right???

    “Covid 19: UK lockdown advisor Neil Ferguson resigns after meeting married lover during lockdown”

  31. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @jfngw (9.07) –

    Hadn’t seen that.

    Remarkable comments from Wishart, and seems quite happy to keep digging no matter how much outrage he causes. People telling him straight that their membership cards are being binned but he just keeps going…

    Dunno if he’s mibbe on the sauce but the sheer gallousness on show is something else.

  32. CameronB Brodie says:

    What an arrogant, self-centered, tosser. Scotland needs to dirch these zeros and find some legal heroes. The current shower running the SNP, clearly do not respect the principle of equality in law.

    Law, health and the European Union

  33. ScottieDog says:

    SNP are waiting for the engine to rev without having put the keys in the ignition.

  34. Helen Yates says:

    It should be obvious to everyone the polls won’t move without a campaign and right now we cant even do that even if the SNP was on board which they clearly aren’t, whether we like it or not there is nothing that can be done by the movement for the foreseeable future, it would be good to have a government that had the courage to at least talk about Independence and forewarn Westminster that as soon as it’s safe to do so they would be starting a campaign to that end but we know that’s not going to happen either, this virus has put everything on hold and we have no way of knowing for sure for how long, we can only hope that by the end of the year we can see an end to the current situation and that there is enough time for another party to be put in place, I only hope if there is one that they are ready to go, I know when I speak to family and friends and others I know who are for independence they all say the same thing, until a campaign has started they don’t want to know, they’re tired of hearing about it to be honest and that’s the thing that worries me the most. I suppose really until the party is under new leadership and with someone who is serious about independence we’re spitting against the wind, happy days eh.

  35. Millennium says:

    The SNP are a Devolutionist Unionist Party.

    That is why they ride so high in the Polls.

    At the Holyrood elections they attract the votes of LibDems and Labour Party sympathisers, because of the freebees the SNP offer.

    And with that kind of backing, Sturgeon knows she can sit in and govern for years and years just by keeping everybody sweet.

    Why would she fight for Independence, it would upset the lifestyle she and her man have become accustomed to.

    She’s no stupid ye know,,,,, it’s us who are stupid, for supporting her for so long.

  36. Ian Brotherhood says:

    This place lost some really good commenters because a lot of us (hands up, me included) felt that Rev was being really harsh on NS and the SNP generally.

    We didn’t know what he knew, and he couldn’t share it at the time. (Still can’t, not fully.)

    Would an amnesty of sorts be in order as and when the rulings on contempt are clarified and/or Big Eck’s book is published and the inevitable blood-letting begins?

  37. Marshall Adair says:

    Oo-err, Mist001, your misogyny is showing yet again. Not a good look but seems you can’t help it.

  38. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Man alive…

    Have just gone back to that Twitter thread.

    Can’t make my mind up whether Wishart has been at the brandy or is acting on orders – if it’s the latter then we’re looking at some hardcore trolling from on-high.

    And why, oh why, would anyone in SNP High Command want to troll ordinary punters via social media right now?

    Any guesses?

  39. Brian Doonthetoon says:


    I don’t believe this story will be on all the UK rolling news channels tomorrow… although it should be.
    (Thanks to Millennium for the link.)

  40. CameronB Brodie says:

    Marshall Adair
    I skip Mist001, as I reckon he’s simply a bit of a nihilist, so unprincipled, who’s simply out to cause disruption. Thanks for pointing out he’s also a sexist. 😉

  41. jfngw says:

    @ian Brotherhood

    I suspect he just doesn’t give a shit now, he will be well into his sixties by the next election, possibly sees this as his final term. No need to worry about the prols when you don’t need their vote.

  42. Capella says:

    @ Tinto Chiel – it is only 2 months since Holyrood passed the Referendum Bill and the SNP asked the Electoral Commission to consider the question. Indyref2 was scheduled for September this year. I expected them to wait until after the Alex Salmond trial and perhaps campaign from around the Declaration of Arbroath celebrations.

    But then what happened? We are in the middle of a pandemic. Everything has been cancelled all over the world. Nobody is going to be knocking on doors and setting up street stalls. It is only common sense to suspend campaigning until the virus is under control.

    I can’t understand the defeatism. Pete Wishart may well be right. Perhaps the weight of international opinion would support an independent Scotland after all the constitutional hurdles had been dealt with one way or another.

    I think Ian Brotherhood is right about why people have left this site. The comments are full of unionist trolls telling us that Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are a waste of time. Then there are the Indy supporters agreeing with them. But I sure miss Nana, Robert Peffers, Indyref2, Thepnr, Petra, Legerwood, Macart, Dr Jim, Dave McEwan Hill, and many others, and yourself most of the time! 🙂

  43. call me dave says:

    Government bans trusts from major PPE deals to stop them competing for scarce equipment

    Blue shaded area at the bottom of the archived page?

  44. Pete Barton says:


  45. velofello says:

    The published membership of the Scottish Affairs Committee is a sneering insult to Scotland.Wishart, and his two other SNP colleagues should refuse to participate, otherwise, for me I reluctantly conclude that a number of SNP MPs have become Westminster House Jocks.

    “Scotland will not leave the EU against it’s will”, says Ian Blackford, but we are leaving since there is no discernible response from the SNP hierarchy.Meanwhile Nicola Sturgeon is milking the virus situation – please stop declaring your honesty with the public – leadership demands multi-tasking, so what strategy to prevent our exit from the EU?

    Sheridan, Assange, Salmond, and now Murray. How strong must the smell be before you conclude that, “something is fishy”? And no SNP concerns voiced!

  46. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Helen Yates ‘whether we like it or not there is nothing that can be done by the movement for the foreseeable future, ‘

    With respect I disagree, and I think it is vitally important to think the opposite of the above.

    With lockdown we cannot play to our strengths in terms of one to one canvassing, but what we can do is be neighbourly, we can be a source of calm and strength, good humour and knowledge during this stressful time.

    Every Yesser is an ambassador for Indy. And there are a lot of quiet conversations taking place over garden walls just now.

    The second thing is, we can be prepared, Brexit is coming, most likely a No Deal Brexit, negotiated in secret…. start prepping now, and there will be some resilience for you, for your family and for friends. Its our country, its going to be on us to keep the wheels on.

    We have a rallying point now, in a way highlighted so strongly, that even voters in Englandshire get its importance…. our NHS, ours, and its not for sale.

    The biggest thing about the current – lets call it ‘becalming’ – of the Indy Movement, is that it has taken the wind out of our sails in a way that Westminster never could.

    But, at its core, Independence is a state of mind, and we have a choice, give up, or get up and get on with it.

    The smallest acts of kindness, decency – when done deliberately in the face of shitty events – change the world. It is the very first thing they try to kick out of us, and the one thing we can refuse to relinquish.

    With Brexit we lose, we lose EU Court of Justice and we lose Holyrood and we lose any kind of economic stability.

    But if we lose sight of who our politicians work for and allow them to waste the opportunities we gave them and the hope we’ve invested in them, then we also lose the ability to think, to be inventive, to thrive.

    Those are gifts I refuse to give to any political party, including the SNP.

    We have a country to win, and if we have to do it with one bit of decency at a time, then that is exactly what we’ll do.

    Keep keeping on folks, this is not about NS, or the SNP, this is about Scotland. And Yes we bloody well can.

  47. Millennium says:

    Capella,,,you just don’t get it.

    I bet that you are President of the “Flat Earth Society of Scotland”.

    If I said to you that we have visual evidence that the Earth is a Sphere, you would say I doctored the images.

    How much more evidence do you need to convince you that Sturgeon is a fraud???

    She has had mandate after mandate since she was elected as the leader of the Independence movenent.

    And hasn’t used one of them

    She is a con merchant, a fraudster who takes us all for mugs.

    Thankfully we are seeing through her little scheme and only a few members who are slow on the uptake still believe the shite she preaches.

    You and your gang of Sturgeon Gradualists are becoming a rare spices, and the quicker you get your “lightbulb moment”, the sooner we can move the Independence cause forward.

  48. Daisy Walker says:

    With regards the Scottish Affairs Committee.

    Pete Wishart should get there early and remove the English MPs seats from the room.

    When that loses its novelty, he should saw 3 inches off the legs of their chairs, and when they are replace, turn them to face the wall and super glue the legs to the floor.

    If/When that doesn’t work he should find the key to the room and lock them out.

    If/when that stops working, he should buy some super glue and lock the bloody door shut, and arrange with the other Scottish MPs to hold the meeting at Holyrood.

    And just to round that all off, he should ensure that members of the international press are fully aware, complete with video footage of the entire episode.

    He might have to find his balls first though, and its so much easier to roll over and have his tummy rubbed.

  49. Dr Jim says:


    This site just conducted a loaded poll on the question of Independence in the middle of a pandemic when our brothers sisters parents and children are dying

    The motive for that poll had damn all to do with Independence
    and in your heart of hearts you know it too, as do most of us in the actual Independence movement

    This site is about bitter revenge and personal bile and the reason why it no longer has friends within the movement

  50. Daisy Walker says:

    And further to The Scottish Affairs Committee, it is currently a rule that MP’s don’t trespass onto another MP’s ward.

    Sod that. Since the SNP have enough MP’s to get Westminster money and afford researchers, they should be deployed to canvas in each of the English MP’s constituencies, big time, dig up the dirt, campaign for local businesses, show the buggers up. I appreciate current lock down makes this difficult, but start putting it in place now.

    Being an English MP on the Scottish Affairs committee should be an act of professional suicide, and they should be quaking in their boots at being made to do it.

    Like I say, we fight back, one way or another.

    Saucer of milk, wee saucer of milk for Wishy Washy, ‘mon and get your tummy tickled.

  51. CameronB Brodie says:

    I hear you but I think this is the perfect time to sort out the SNP’s legal ‘thinking’. If they are going to protect Scotland from Brexit, they need to adopt a legal position that is compatible with “global health law”. So no more “we need a S30” bollocks and no more toleration of trans-activists promoting gender-ideology in law.

    International Law and Global Public Health

  52. Capella says:

    @ Dr Jim – I hesitate to ascribe motives. Yougov are also polling. But I agree there is a tremendous amount of bitterness around. Some of it I share e.g. over the GRA and now the Hate Crime Bill and the infiltration of the SNP by Wokus Dei. But unlike Stu and Craig Murray, I believe our real enemy is the British state, not the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon.

    This will pass. Everything does. And if we all survive this epidemic we will all be on the same side of the campaign. At least, as long as there are 100 of us left alive.

    Great to hear form you. A wee ray of sunshine in the general gloom. 🙂

  53. Jules says:

    Mist001 at 8.20pm… I’ll have a bottle of whatever lockdown hooch you’ve been brewing..!

  54. Capella says:

    @ CBB – has it occurred to you that the leadership of the SNP don’t actually care about getting a S30? The important thing is to ask for it convincingly with strong backing from the Scottish people. If it isn’t granted, unreasonably refused, then they are free to carry on making arrangements to enter the community of nations without the blessing of dear old Blighty.
    But democracy and the rule of law do actually require you to consult and play by the rules.
    A player who upsets the board is deemed to have forfeited the game.

  55. Millennium says:

    Dr Jim

    If you are insinuating that we all have a grand plan as pay back for the Alex Salmond case, then you are sorely wrong.

    I didn’t fellow the Salmond case, I don’t know any of the players in the case, and my reasons for wanting Sturgeon replaced are her sheer lack of action when it comes to Scottish Independence.

    She is a self serving Unionist Devolutionist, which is the last thing the Independence movenent needs.

    For the last four years all she talked about was Brexit, instead of pushing for Scottish Independence.

    She has wasted all those years and her time is definitely up.

    When LibDems are happy to vote for the leader of the Independence movenent, then you know you are doing something seriously wrong.

    I will take it that you are also a member of Capella’s Flat Earth Society (Scotland Branch)

  56. shug says:

    The BBC really don’t like Nicola as you can tell from their tone of voice, the tone being can you really justify being different from Westminster and all direction away from challenging why Westminster make a decision.
    One reading many of the anti- Nicola/SNP messages on here I would make the following observations:
    Nicola would be daft to call a referendum if there is only a toss of the coin chance of winning, remembering London controls the MSM
    Not calling one this year given the virus was spot on
    Waiting till the Salmond trial was spot on
    She can’t tackle the witches. They have the protection of the law. They also have their employers whistle-blower protection. It may well be that their unfounded allegations make them unfit for public office, but the law protects them, but we can be assured everyone round them knows who they are and their days will be numbered. Let them wither on the vine.
    London will force Brexit at the end of the year and the fishermen and farmers will see the betrayal
    A good win next year makes indy unstoppable.
    There will be ‘events’ in the coming months that will impact what happens but there is only one direction.
    I do wish Stu would find a way of identifying the && chaps on here but then they are visible by their bile and hatred. It is the one feature all unionists have in common, bitter and full of hatred for all things not seen as British. Where you see hatred you see a unionist.

  57. Robert Louis says:

    Pete Wishart’s sneering contempt for indy supporters, who dare question his daft assertions, is something to behold. It would seem that he and some others are quite comfy with their MP seats at Westminster, and are not interested in indy supporters.

    Lining their own nests, the whole damn lot of them.

    I do not know what age Pete Wishart is now, but I’m assuming his trite, condescending attitude to people who previously helped him get his MP jub, is maybe because he has already decided he will be retiring in a few years. I mean, he must have earned a right good wad of cash from Westminster, and of course he’ll have the UK’s best pension too.

    Personally, I am so, so so very dissappointed at how some in the SNP have become so wrapped up in their own personal beliefs and so enamoured to Westminster. As many have pointed out, being an MP, is a right good cushy job nowadays, so why would they try to gasin independence?

    The SNP has really lost its way. They are going the same way as Labour – in the sense that they think they will easily win the next election. Such conceited arrogance. Such utter conempt for their voters. Just like Labour did. You would think they would be wiser, but no, just full of conceit and arrogance.

    The attitude is simply this;

    ‘they are all right, they have very good jobs, so why should they have to listen to this bleating about indy, FFS??’

    As for Pete Wishart himeelf, he is so very proud to chair the Scottish affairs select committee, in London. So very proud. The fact that he is just being used to give an English dominated committe a fig leaf of pseudo credibility, without him having any power, seems to be something he cannot see.

    ‘British Pete’, somebody called him. Now I see why.

  58. mike cassidy says:

    I said on this site after the last general election

    That if you go down the section30 route for an indyref2

    What you are actually doing is waiting until you hold the balance of power at a GE.

    At its bleakest, that’s the political equivalent of crossing your fingers once every five years

    Nothing has changed about that.

    What has changed is the perception of the SNP.

    Even if you don’t go all the way with the growing perception that they are genuinely happy to keep kicking the can down the road

    I do

    Even if you don’t go all the way with the growing perception that transactivism is leeching the lifeblood out of the party

    I do

    The machinations around the Salmond Trial in and of themselves revealed that there really is something rotten in the State of SNP

    Something that morally goes beyond the idea that the party is the single means to gain a second referendum – and therefore people ought to politically suck it up if they want such a referendum.

    Oddly enough, it was something unconnected with the above that created the tipping point and made me think its time to switch off from the SNP.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s failure to publicly condemn the covid royal retreat to Scotland when she had the chance.

    If she couldn’t stand up for the Scottish people over a matter of life and death, what’s the point of being First Minister?

    And spare me the argument about how that would have made the unionists howl at the moon.

    They do that anyway.

    If there is another referendum, and I’m alive when it happens

    Neither of which is guaranteed!!

    I’ll vote ‘yes’.

    Otherwise, time to bow out.

    Best of luck, genuine wingers.

  59. Joe says:

    Did someone say coronavirus ending independence? Nice bit of work by the president of Tanzania. Maybe offer him a job once hes done there?

  60. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Capella: no-one is asking for an independence campaign just now. What I’m referring to is a fight for the soul of the party. I have no confidence that the leadership is interested in fighting for independence: it’s always, jam tomorrow, give us another mandate, there’s always a reason to postpone a campaign. And you talk of defeatism.

    Incidentally, I wouldn’t be too sure some of the names on your list no longer post here for the reason you gave. This was never a SNP site, it was about independence but I don’t think the party leadership is particularly interested in that now and it seems to me most of the bile is being directed at an innocent man by cowardly and vindictive highly placed party members.

    So you keep believing what you wish to believe, and I’ll keep hoping to see an independent Scotland, but the present vehicle is parked up a dead-end street called Section 30, there’s no gas in the tank and the driver’s posted missing.

    Night, night.

  61. CameronB Brodie says:

    mike cassidy
    I hope you’ll pop in from time to time, btl on WOS will be less on-the-ball for your absence.

  62. Effijy says:

    It is quite unbelievable the power of propaganda in the 21st Century.

    Scotland yet again governed by a Party we never voted for.
    The Tories are lead by a pathological liar and adulterer.
    A PM that has openly declared his hate of Scots
    Westminster are to drag Scotland out of Europe against our wil.
    Scotland awaits 24 devolved powers to be stripped away from Holyrood.
    Every single Vow from the last referendum smashed and broken.
    10’s Thousands needlessly dead with Covid 19 completely mismanaged
    In every way going back 4 years to the Cygnus report.
    More UK dead than any other nation outside of the US.

    All the above leaves half of Scots saying this all seems good.
    Insanity, ignorance and laziness just can’t account for 50%?

  63. RobertTheTruth says:

    “This site is about bitter revenge and personal bile and the reason why it no longer has friends within the movement”

    What movement would that be Dr Jim? The wider independence movement or the SNP apologists? I think we know for whom you speak, Dr Jim. You are right it is not a one note devotional site dedicated to Nicola. It never was although you and your ilk tried to make it so.

    You are bitter because she and they (the SNP) have feet of clay.They are human, we are human and we all felt betrayed as it became clear what was unfolding but you could and cannot accept it. So don’t take it out on us because they let you down.

    You are pretty good at doling the personal bile yourself under that guise of couthy, tea- wifey Dr Jim so maybe get off that high horse.

  64. Capella says:

    @ Tinto Chiel – well that’s one way of putting it. I’m willing to believe that the leadership is committed to independence but through the constitutional route. As Alex Salmond was when he was leader, and still is AFAIK.

    Yes there are dark forces bent on destroying the reputation of Alex Salmond and Craig Murray and all who support them. I have no idea how far the tentacles go and I can’t be bothered speculating at this time of night.

    These forces are also intent on destroying the independence movement. Let’s not hand them the victory they crave.

  65. CameronB Brodie says:

    How on earth can you imagine the current “leadership is committed to independence but through the constitutional route”, when they aren’t prepared to legally defend Scotland from Brexit? Which lacks regard for the Moral Law foundations of British democracy.

    The current leadership are deeply invested participants in British constitutionalism, so they lack respect for international law and human rights. They will not look out for you and me, their mode of understanding is clearly incapable.

  66. Joe says:

    I had to think of the shortest way to say this, so here goes- Im Scottish. I think Scotland is a great country and should be independent. But when I look at the indy activists and especially the people they elect I feel more kinship with Yorkshire lads working and enjoying a pint at the end of the week. I wont be the only one. The insanity needs to stop. Get a fucking grip Scotland

  67. robertknight says:

    Pete Washout is right out the “We will not allow Scotland to be dragged out the EU against our will” school of bullshitting the Indy voter.

    Thanks to Boris and Brexit, support for Indy should be 60%+.

    Thanks to the SNP, support for Indy is 50%.

    Nuff said.

  68. Famous15 says:

    Joe you may be pleased to know the Yorkshire Society at Edinburgh University is much larger than the Student SNP society so plenty lager mates there.

  69. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    “Any guesses?”

    When the SNP introduced OMOV to elect a “Leader” (was the constitution ever changed to introduce that position?), and the AMS was adopted for the Scottish Parliament.

    Internal democracy was effectively dead, as “The Leaders” patronage, firstly for shadow cabinet and eventually government ministers positions – Trumped any Conference VC appointments and provided a stage that effectively meant that any resolution that had not prior approval from the BOSSES, was deemed to be at best divisive and at worst heresy.

    “They” have probably been aware and secretly pleased about the steady hemorrhage of nationalist stalwarts over the years, easily replaced by impressionable newbies with secondary kites to fly.

    It has suited the time-servers well, that people who are not especially keen on independence – can vote SNP because they think they will provide better government than any of the Unionist Parties – but without fear of them making a declaration of Independence.

    They can’t all be living in a coccoon, some of these people were once foot-soldiers for a cause, or are the children of parents who have had to put their dreams of a better Scotland on hold, for the sake of their offspring’s career in politics.

    Perhaps they are beginning to be concerned that an alternative independence party could “steal their votes”?

    Well nobody will be stealing my vote – The SNP have been swindling me out of mine for years.

    They will not do it again … Nothing short of a written in blood pledge to declare independence on receipt of a majority of votes, subject to no caveats whatsoever … Will induce me to vote SNP.

    I may however rejoin and take every opportunity I get, to ask my MSP and MP to convince me that voting for them, will somehow advance the cause of Scottish Independence, in a way that it most certainly has not, in between the last time I voted for them and now.

  70. Capella says:

    @CBB – my guess is that they planned to hold a referendum this year. I have some good evidence for that. If the Scottish people vote for ibdependence (unlike in the 2014 referendum) then the transition period could allow Scotland to negotiate a different outcome with the EU.

    Covid-19 has derailed that timetable. So they are asking for BREXIT to be delayed. Boris says no. Michel Barnier says there isn’t time to negotiate a deal. So a hard BREXIT or a delay? Which tends to suppirt independence?

    Add to that the inevitable recriminations about this catastrophic response to the pandemic.

  71. Sandy says:

    Think Millennium has had a nasty head knock. Serious case of bigotry or concussion or even tunnel vision. Or he’s been to troll school.

  72. Iain More says:

    “” robertknight says:
    6 May, 2020 at 12:28 am

    Pete Washout is right out the “We will not allow Scotland to be dragged out the EU against our will” school of bullshitting the Indy voter.

    Thanks to Boris and Brexit, support for Indy should be 60%+.

    Thanks to the SNP, support for Indy is 50%.

    Nuff said.””

    So true. I’m astonished it is even at 50% since the SNP/SG with a few honorable exceptions has done SFA to promote Scots Indy in the last 5 nearly 6 years now.

  73. Willie says:

    Fifty percent without a campaign!

    And with a campaign, a structured legal campaign to pursue Scotland’s sovereignty, to challenge Westminster’s, challenges of the type so successfully pursued by Joanna Cherry, a campaign on the disastrous Westminster Covid 19 policy, a challenge in the rights of Scotland being taken out of Europe against Scotland’s will, such action could well deliver our objective could be achieved.

    But to do that we need a party committed to independence and not a party committed to subsidiarity to Westminster.

    To do nothing we go no where.

    Time for a reinvigorated SNP or a new party altogether.

  74. Breeks says:

    Iain More says:
    6 May, 2020 at 1:13 am
    “” robertknight says:
    6 May, 2020 at 12:28 am

    Pete Washout is right out the “We will not allow Scotland to be dragged out the EU against our will” school of bullshitting the Indy voter.

    Thanks to Boris and Brexit, support for Indy should be 60%+.

    Thanks to Boris and Brexit, Scotland has been subjugated, the Treaty of Union is irredeemably breached, the UK’s unwritten convention on Parliamentary Sovereignty is ripped to shreds, and International law has been broken.

    It isn’t just a lousy referendum the SNP Government has cost Scotland, but the end of the Union itself, nothing short of sovereign independence itself, our European citizenship intact, and all delivered into our laps by the perfidious arrogance of the BritNats.

    Brexit forced upon a sovereign Nation which democratically voted to reject it emphatically, and the cowards in the “party of Independence” quickly looked away. They should be impeached, driven from office, and never forgiven. They are no better than the Parcel of Rogues who sold Scotland down the river in 1707.

    Pete Wishart is happy with 50% in the polls is he? I could drown the lot of them in a bath that was 50% full. It is more than adequate for the purpose if the will is there to do it.

  75. Millennium says:

    Sandy 12 41

    Please explain what upset you so much.

    Is it because I call out Sturgeon for being a Unionist Devolutionist???

    Sandy,,,another member of Capella’s Flat Earth Society. (Scotland Branch)

    These posts that come in calling you a Troll if you highlight what an incompetent
    Leader of the Independence movenent Nicola Sturgeon is says more about you than about me.

    The difference between you and I Sandy is that I can see the problem and can see a way out, you on the other hand can’t see the problem and offer no way out of the present stalemate.

    And Sandy, the Earth is a Sphere,,,, honest.

  76. Millennium says:

    English Tory James Brokenshire doing the rounds this morning wheeling out the old dead horse of Russia and China hacking into our computer systems.

    Yet tell us to download their Covid19 tracking app , saying your personal details will be completely secure,

    You can’t have it both ways Mr Brokenshire, either the Russians and Chinese have broken into your systems or they haven’t.

    I think this is just another case of Tory deflection.

  77. Capella says:

    Interesting long read from Richard Murphy of Taxresearch. He reckons the UK is in for a long period of disruption and what this means for life as we know it.

  78. Patrick Roden says:

    capella says: ”But unlike Stu and Craig Murray, I believe our real enemy is the British state, not the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon.”

    Shug says: ”she can’t tackle the witches they have the protection of the law “

    @capella: the problem is mate, they have become one and the same thing because the way Nicola is acting is keeping Scotland trapped within the British state.

    @ Shug: That’s simply not true Shug, in fact, I’m afraid it’s not anywhere close to being the truth.

    Just have a look at the twitter feed of Wishy Washy pete above and ask yourself why Nicola is allowing Wishart to act in this way, even although members are resigning their membership because of him.

    Look at John Nocolsons’s twitter feed and see the same thing happening and ask yourself what is stopping Nicola at the very least getting in touch with these guys to ask them why they are insulting SNP/YES campaigners and voters so much that they are resigning and no longer campaigning?

    But the killer fact is that Nicola has been right at the centre of the allegations against Alex Salmond because AS is not the type of person who would sit quietly if he thought Nicola was being accused wrongly.

    AS is very close to both Rev Stu and Craig Murray, both of whom have made clear that in their opinion Nicola Sturgeon has been orchestrating the campaign against him.

    Open your eyes guys, you are being taken for mugs!

  79. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Capella 12.10: sorry, retired earlyish for my beauty sleep.

    Your loyalty does you credit but I fear some of the forces you mention who are intent on destroying independence are actually within the party. Time (and perhaps Alex Salmond) will tell.

  80. Millennium says:

    Tory officials are telling us that the figures showing the UK being top of the death charts in Europe are not a true picture because different countries collate their figures in other ways.

    But the hypocrisy in that statement is that it is England who cheat when it comes to true figures

    The office for national statistics says there is probably another 10,000 deaths that should be added to the UK death toll.

    As per usual with the English and their media, don’t let the truth get in the way of a good lie.

  81. Rm says:

    All the SNP MPs down at westminster should have barricaded themselves in down there rather than calmly let Brexit happen to Scotland, they all said we won’t let it happen yet none of them did a thing about it, they should have had front page headlines all over the world let everybody know what Scots are made of, the French or Irish wouldn’t have allowed that to happen, nae pith fae none o them, nae wonder people are questioning the SNPs strategy for ending the Union.

  82. Ian R Murray says:

    We will continue to be ignored by Westminster they don’t have to do anything
    As we careen from one Westminster debacle to another it will never be the time.
    Positive action will need to be taken at some point.
    We will get slammed by the media for it (whatever “it” happens to be)but we get slammed in the media anyway, so set the wheels in motion and lets go for it

  83. Pete says:

    An awful lot of criticism of the UK government on here, but is it not the case that Scotland has the worst infection rate within the whole UK?
    Anyway, this lockdown nonsense has gone on far too long.
    Completely ruinous to the country and to the social wellbeing of the country.
    Every day when Sturgeon comes on the TV, I switch it off. She is such a wimp!!
    My wife and I, both elderly, have now decided to go back to normal, as far as possible, and have been visiting our family and are having friends round tomorrow to enjoy the good weather with us in our garden.
    To hell with this nonsense!!

  84. Millennium says:

    The one moment of rebellion carried out by our brave SNP MPs (snigger), was when they walked out of the chamber.

    Membership actually increased, So surely the SNP strategists must have realised that they were on to something here.

    But no,,,,that was the one and only act of rebellion we have seen from our Westminster Wet Lettuce Brigade.

  85. Famous15 says:

    I genuinely misread Union Jack SOSFS as saying we must march in goose-step with the UK.

  86. Socrates MacSporran says:

    The stupidity of the current clique running the SNP is demonstrated all too clearly by this latest poll.

    For some strange, unfathomable reason, regardless of how badly the English-dominated UK government and parliament treats Scotland, we cannot persuade a majority of the Scottish electorate to back Independence – we seem to like being colonised by wankers (to quote Mark Renton).

    But, on the one occasion when, at the ballot box, a clear majority of the Scots electorate – the 62% who backed Scotland remaining a member of the EU, the SNP promised us they would back and stand-up for that vote – then did nothing.

    The SNP cannot get a majority to back Independence via a referendum – even supposing they could force the English government and parliament of allow one. But, they have a clear remain in Europe mandate formt eh Scottish people.

    Why cannot they use that to gain Independence? Since only by being Independent cant his happen.

    As I have said before, I will never vote SNP again. But, I will vote Yes to Independence, at the drop of a hat.

  87. Famous15 says:

    Pete you are so obvious. No one believes your shit.

    Emulating Trump or kidding on you are in the hope of getting thick people to agree with you is just being a silly billy and nanny will spank your lying bottom.


  88. CameronB Brodie says:

    The first minister and her coterie are simply narrow minded authoritarians who lack a respect for the rule-of-law. By disrespecting biology and Natural Law, they highlight their ignorance of the law, and inability to defend Scotland from English nationalism.

    The role of international law in South African health law and policy-making

  89. Ottomanboi says:

    Through fear of an unknown, citizens are being programmed to accept curtailed, limited and fewer freedoms, seemingly with equanimity.
    Independence without a sense of the existential significance of the concept of human freedom and indeed more fundamentally, free will, would be akin to giving children matches in a hay barn. The global damage done by the self-styled experts in the current ‘crisis’ indicates how dangerous ignorance and hubris can be.
    The state has power over us because we individually and collectively permit it. Sovereignty is the individuals and the peoples to grant, and to withhold; a fundamental right.
    Back to the primers, life for dummies?, I feel.
    An authentic FREEDOM party is nevertheless rather overdue.
    Scotland needs to shift the intellectual paradigm. The old order is decaying fast, everywhere.

  90. CameronB Brodie says:

    The SNP’s ignorance of the law poses a serious threat to all those living in Scotland. Brexit was already going to be a disaster for democracy, but is now a gateway to a full-fat fascist state.

    The Legal Strength of International Health Instruments – What It Brings to Global Health Governance?

  91. Millennium says:

    Ottomanboi 9.11am

    The FREEDOM Party, who hold their AGMs in FREEDOM Square, Glasgow.

  92. frogesque says:

    @ Famous15: 8.54

    Not just me then!

  93. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not simply here to moan, I’m offering help. Though I’m not sure the SNP’s hierarchy are actually committed to democracy.

    The International Right to Health Care: A Legal and Moral Defense

  94. Francis Lynch says:

    Worrying. Half of Scots give think the cackhanded, venal, dimwitted and downright dangerous Tories south of the Border are doing a great job; as they must think the deranged gibberings of the likes of Murdo Fraser and Jackson Carlaw as indisputable truths; not forgetting the intellectual musings of David Mundell, that stalwart defender of the Scotland’s position within the UK and the world.

    Maybe Scottish voters aren’t as politically savvy as we would like to give them credit.

  95. CameronB Brodie says:

    Pandering to trans-ideology has disabled the SNP as a political force, and indicates the party’s management have a very poor grasp of the law. This is not good..

    Creating Legal Effects for the WHO’s International Health Regulations (2005)

  96. Stuart MacKay says:

    CBB @9:08am

    I usually find your fire-hose of links a little too much to digest but this one on health policy in South Africa hit the mark – thanks for that.

    Everybody is talking about the New Normal as if something new is going to be on offer. I seriously doubt it – the old order will take the opportunity to tighten their grip – which is getting more tenuous by the day so the chance to reassert themselves will be seized on without reservation.

    As Ottomanboi says, any new party really has a golden opportunity to establish a new standard for freedoms and citizens’ relationship with their government and the state. It could be 1776 all over again where, this time, it’s Scotland that shows the world what freedom really can be.

    That cannot come from the SNP or the current Scottish Government. That’s not meant as a criticism. As institutions they have simply been around too long to really come up with something new. Indeed, the authoritarian tendencies are on display more and more as they lose the ability to persuade an increasingly skeptical electorate that they are on the right path.

  97. CameronB Brodie says:

    Stuart MacKay
    I’m simply the messenger and thank you for taking the time. 😉

  98. susan says:

    Cameron, I’ve been saying it for a while, on various sites, that the SNP’s approach to GRA Reform and now the “Hate” Bill are disturbingly undemocratic too. Imagine considering it good legal practice to compel ppl to lie…

  99. Colin Alexander says:


    Do you really believe the SNP Scot Govt and Scottish Parliament are NOT part of the UK state?

    Q. To whom does EVERY SNP politician swear allegiance?

    The people of Scotland or Empress Elizabeth of the British Empire?

    Q. From where does the Scottish Parliament gain it’s right to legislate?

    The people of Scotland or the UK state?

    Q. If the people of Scotland have a conflict with what the UK State decides eg, EU membership, who do the Scot Govt and Scot Parliament ob

    The answer to those two questions will tell you whether the Scot Govt and Scot Parl are parts of the “British” state.

  100. Colin Alexander says:

    Edit: The answer to those three questions will tell you whether the Scot Govt and Scot Parliament are parts of the “British” state.

  101. CameronB Brodie says:

    The current hierarchy are seriously undermining Scottish democracy, and appear intent on preventing any hope for Scotland to achieve constitutional justice. They are either profoundly ignorant of the law, or they are using the law for illiberal ends.

    Bridging international law and rights-based litigation: Mapping health-related rights through the development of the Global Health and Human Rights Database

  102. Millennium says:

    Rev Stu

    Will you be standing as a candidate in this new FREEDOM PARTY???

    We need well known popular individuals like yourself to get the Party up and running, who know their way around tv and radio studios.

    Along side people like Alex Salmond, Joanna Cherry, Craig Murray, Tommy Sheridan, to name but a few.

    The time for talking us NOW!!!

    If not now then yesterday.

    Sturgeon has done enough fuckin about to last a lifetime.

    We are probably going to crash out of the EU at the end of this year and we also have an election next year.

    So the clock is ticking Rev.

    Tick tock.

  103. Republicofscotland says:

    So Alister Jack, broke ministerial rules by posting a glowing report of Jackson Carlaw on the UKGOV website, which shouldn’t be allowed to promote party politics.

    Jack lavished praise on Carlaw for his attack on Scotlands FM that she should follow London in lockstep with regards to the virus, in which its sheer and utter incompetence has led it to having the highest death rate in the world from the virus after the USA.

    Of course the YOUGOV website is a unionist outlet, and the Civil Service a frontline weapon to thwart Scottish independence. So the pretendy move by the Civil Service of redacting Jack’s lickspittke praise of London lackey is really just an establishment exercise in oh look how fair and upstanding we are, which of course couldn’t be further from the truth.

  104. Willie B says:

    The Murrell Mafia are ruining the party, as others have said, they have no interest in losing the power they now find themselves with and are very happy being big fish swimming in a mucky puddle, pushing the GRA, hate laws or or fighting Bexshit.
    Why? Brexit gives the people of Scotland the biggest mandate for having a referendum due to a conflict of interests between Scotland and the rUK, let England have it, but if the SNP were successful in getting in cancelled with cross party support, then that does away with the conflict, and let’s them stay where they are.
    As for the Alex Salmond trial, Sturgeon and the alphabet coven are totally behind this move, afaraid that if a resurgent Salmond returned to Holyrood politics like he has s-ole about before the allegations were made, they knew that he could very well do what he did with Swinney and present a Leadership challenge, and Sturgeon knows she would lose, hell she didn’t get it when Swinney quit, and when Salmond through his hat in the ring, she was floundering, and only got it because it was gifted to her.
    As for Blustering Blackford, who I leafletted for and supported at first here in Skye, he has never forgiven Salmond for sacking a decade ago, and was openly gloating that Salmond was going down at a local meeting, and is very happy blocking folk along with the bearded belles of Macdonald, Smith, Nicolson, and the wannabe speaker Wishart.
    What these collaborators forget, is that when it comes to an election time, it’s the local constituencies that have to sign papers for them to to become candidates, and any members of the party have to start the fight to take the party back, from the inside, it’s no use if folk leave.
    There are quite a few of us waiting for our next local members meeting, because Blackford is going to find out that not all are happy with his efforts, and is going to be told, either fight for independence, drop all the irrelevant shite mentioned earlier in the post, or find out if he will run again, and every local party has to do similar, it’s time to take our SNP MPs/MSPs to task, because only if we do then we might just stand a chance of getting our independence, if not we might as well forget it.
    And I write this post as a leaf letter, canvasser, and paid up unhappy member of the party and I know for a fact am not alone in feeling this way

  105. Capella says:

    @ Tinto Chiel – I can see from your portrait that you are a very handsome fellow and definitely not in need of beauty sleep!

    RE the dark forces, I have great admiration for the British intelligence services. Their ability to divide and rule is world class. Not only have they infiltrated the SNP and flooded them with woke nonsense (as they have other left leaning organisations such as the Labour party)but they have managed to degrade the two best independence blogs on the internet. Full marks.

    Who knew a few short months ago that the biggest opponents of independence are Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP? Not the Westminster government nor the British Establishment nor the billionaire owned press nor the government funded BBC nor the Tory Government nor the unionist parties. No. The main opponents of independence are the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon.

    That’s quite a major logical leap. A party founded with one aim, Scottish independence, is actually against Scottish independence. A person who has spent 35 years campaigning for independence is actually opposed to independence?

    Yet in spite of all their efforts at suppressing independence, their standing in the polls is high. Ah but – some people believe it is high because people opposed to independence would vote for the SNP. Seriously, I’ve seen this tweeted.

    You may well be right. But I still need to see some concrete evidence rather than the OTT accusations of some obvious BTL trolls. Stu and Craig were going to reveal all after the Alex Salmond trial. But still nothing.

    So, for me, the jury is still out. And yes, I oppose some of their policies such as GRA reform and the Hate Crime Bill as presented. But that’s another long story.

  106. Mike K says:

    Time to launch that list party Stu?

  107. CameronB Brodie says:

    You can’t choose which parts of the law you are prepared to respect and which you’ll just invent, so the current leadership simply lacks a respect for the rule-of-law.

  108. Colin Alexander says:


    Many have criticised the SNP for a lack of rebuttal of fake propaganda.
    Sadly, the SNP have gone the “spin” merchants way too.

    I think Stu’s primary role in an independence party could be doing what he’s been doing already, but as the head of a rebuttal / fact unit of a new independence party.

    I see that as Stu’s greatest talents rather than as a candidate.

  109. McDuff says:

    Doug 7.27
    I’m sorry Doug but why is it encouraging? We are exactly where the polls were six years ago.
    Tell me what’s the SNP’s plan to increase the vote.

  110. CameronB Brodie says:

    I don’t want to hurt the SNP but I do want to help the membership heal their party from the debilitating effects of legal pig-ignorance.

    Law and Global Health: Current Legal Issues Volume 16

  111. CameronB Brodie says:

    Either pig-ignorance or anti-democratic tendancies.

    First principles of health justice: a human right to be healthy | Sridhar Venkatapuram | TEDxLSHTM

  112. Joe says:

    @Ottamanboi There wont be a 1776 style independence revolution in Scotland. Even if there was a party promoting it. The average indy supporter is too enlightened, too moral, too with it to ever support a movement that put the sovereignty of the individual as paramount. That would be ‘tory’. No, were stuck with post-modern, collectivist, globalist non-nationalism.

  113. CameronB Brodie says:

    Forget about the SNP for a minute, does Scotland actually have any judges who support democracy?

    The role of the judicial system in protecting the human right to health

  114. CameronB Brodie says:

    Or are all of Scotland’s judges old skool legal positivists who are opposed to the justice of the Natural Law tradition, a.k.a. Tories.

    New Legal Realism, empiricism, and scientism: the relative objectivity of law and social science

  115. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Col. Blimp IV (12.36) –

    Hear hear.

    Whether or not the end of this accursed lockdown coincides with the release of Big Eck’s book, a reckoning is coming – we’ll soon see where some folks’ priorities lie.

    Talk of ‘civil war’ within political parties is often exaggerated, but the way this is shaping up, with the TRAs digging in and arrogant entitlement dripping from Wishart and his ilk, this conflict is going to be far from ‘civil’ – it won’t be one for the faint-hearted.


  116. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Willie B says :

    “There are quite a few of us waiting for our next local members meeting, because Blackford is going to find out that not all are happy with his efforts, and is going to be told, either fight for independence, drop all the irrelevant shite mentioned earlier in the post, or find out if he will run again, and every local party has to do similar, it’s time to take our SNP MPs/MSPs to task…”

    It is indeed TIME and it has been for a long time, SNP members need to ask themselves – WHY DID I JOIN THIS CLUB?

    To do whatever I could to advance the cause of Independence?


    To polish the egos of a bunch of smarmy duplicitous Shites and work tirelessly without pay, to help keep them in the well paid jobs that they only have, because of my efforts and the efforts of many others like me?

  117. shug says:

    Patrick Roden

    I think where we differ is, I see Nicola constructing her messages to address the concerns of no voters (against independence) to try and bring them onboard
    Her messaging is not designed to appeal to confirmed yes voters as they are in the bag
    She has, and we have, to convince no voters
    Going into a referendum we will not win is foolhardy. It reminds me of the Battle of Dunbar where the Scots grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory.
    After this Referendum there will be a unitary state and there will be no chance thereafter

  118. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’d suggest the question in front of Scotland is not one of supporting independence or not. It is whether you support the rule-of-law and the principle of universal human rights. Placing politics above the law is a direct route to a totalitarian state, and that is exactly where the current SNP are leading Scotland.

  119. Capella says:

    @ CBB – of course you can despise bad law. In fact it’s probably your civic duty. For example blasphemy laws such as the Hate Crime Bill. Here’s an example from ancient Judea, Jehovah 2:30:

  120. CameronB Brodie says:

    British constitutional law lacks coherence and compatibility with international law, so standing under it harms the fabric of international human rights law. Now is a time that the primacy of international law must be respected, otherwise we can kiss goodbye to the principle of universal human rights.


  121. CameronB Brodie says:

    This Hate Crime bill threatens open democracy and liberal society. It is obviously intended to protect the ongoing attack on the legal respect for biology. Simples

  122. Col.Blimp IV says:

    shug says:

    “After this Referendum there will be a unitary state and there will be no chance thereafter”


    The last thing we need is a Referendum … what we need is a political party that does what it says on the tin.

    The SNP has shown that it is capable of wining a majority of the votes … It just refuses to accept these votes as an endorsement of Independence.

  123. Col.Blimp IV says:

    CameronB Brodie says:

    “British constitutional law lacks coherence…”

    Whenever I am unsure about The Law, I consult this handy compendium.

  124. CameronB Brodie says:

    Col.Blimp IV
    The critical lens of Lego. 🙂

  125. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Capella: I love flattery but being as handsome as Thomas Muir is perhaps quite a low bar.

    As you say yourself security services are masters of all kinds of dark arts but they wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t have pary insiders working to derail independence. I find it inconceivable that Stuart Campbell and Craig Murray would have undergone all the vituperation over the Salmond Affair if there were no evidence to back it up.

    Re the polls, you must have met SNP voters while canvassing who openly admit they will not vote for independence, for I certainly have, and that has baffled me as much as the FM’s behaviour but perhaps they like the way she runs the devolved government and gives them freebies you don’t get down south.

  126. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Tinto Chiel says:

    “you must have met SNP voters while canvassing who openly admit they will not vote for independence, ”

    Sure I have met them, there was a time when such people’s votes were needed in order to win elections, but it was always hopped that in time they would come to embrace independence.

    If after 40 years they are still “soft no” frearties there is not much hope left for them, and if they are not already they will very soon be overtaken in numbers by –

    Voters who proudly proclaim their desire for independence – but swear that they will never again vote SNP.

  127. Capella says:

    @ Tinto Chiel – well Thomas Muir is an excellent choice. 🙂
    I agree, there will be several agents at all levels of every party, the civil service, the media and every public institution.

    I find it difficult to believe that Nicola Sturgeon is one of them. Surely Alex Salmond would have known if she was and not endorsed her so readily.
    But if some evidence turns up then I may well change my mind. Stu and Craig are both convinced so somebody must have told them something. But who? and why?

  128. robbo says:

    Now, to all those furloughed here’s what you’re wee swick chancellor thinks of you!
    Surprised ? Naw.

  129. Tinto Chiel says:

    “But who? and why?” You’ll need to buy the book, Capella.

    “They will very soon be overtaken in numbers by –

    “Voters who proudly proclaim their desire for independence – but swear that they will never again vote SNP.”

    Sadly, Colonel, that may well be true.

  130. Ruglonian says:

    I support Scottish Independence.

    I have never joined a political party but I have previously lent my vote to those who have advocated that they are are pro-indy, in the belief that they will use their position as my elected representatives to advance the cause.

    It is my right in a democracy to be able to vote for a party that aligns with my politics.

    I desire a new pro-indy party who’s first priority is to actively pursue a means to independence from within our parliament.
    I pledge to join such a party and campaign for its success with the same vigor as I have given to my years of grassroots activism.

    None of these statements are controversial, are they?

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