Moodievision: Alistair’s Lament
Posted on
June 03, 2015 by
Greg Moodie
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Absolutely superb! 🙂
For me the best so far!
If he doesn’t know, it shows he’s not worth it. 🙂
Possibly he’s a lying toad?
Wicked and brilliant
Love it.
Commendable how Greg has avoided using the word SHITE in there. Truly commendable.
Pure class !! Great art !!! Cheers !!
Just Brilliant.
(Are you trying to make us feel sorry for him or something?)
Excellent as usual, keep it up, needed cheering up today
THANKS
Syd
@ Greg Moodie – You have excelled yourself. I will never ever hear that tune again without thinking of your toon. I hate you. 🙂
Great creative talent and laugh out loud funny Greg- which is slightly embarrassing as I’m currently sitting on the bus.
I did think for minute I felt sorry for him but then realised it was just beans I had for tea last night,
PARP!
Pure dead brilliant! When’s the album coming out?!
Disappointed you didn’t slip in “Help me Rona”. How could you?
Really enjoying the Moodievision series. They really brighten up the day. Thanks Greg.
Oh, and don’t forget the People Versus Carmichael fundraiser. 90% there at £54,205 so if you haven’t made a donation yet THERE’S STILL TIME!
link to indiegogo.com
link to news.channel4.com
You have to hand it to him, he is fabulous liar. Or was it rock solid trust that a certain leakster would NOT phone Daily Telegraph clowns from the office?
Brilliant – but, might not this be a clear case of “bayoneting the wounded”?
Credit to @tommyreckless too for the song. He’s been doing this sort of thing for years (ask Tommy Sheridan!) and maybe teaming up with Greg and Wings will help get him the fame he so richly deserves. Do I get my fiver, Tam?
Oh Mr Cartoonist, you are spoiling us!
brilliant
love the camel
That was a tonic. Great music. Could have been a Eurovision entry.
Quite funny and hardhitting, but if Alistair Carmichael were to die unexpectedly would he suddenly become semi-deified like Charles Kennedy and achieve posthumous greatness?
Judging by some of the posts I have read from several of the commentators on the previous thread, if Charles Kennedy is anything to go by then all Scottish unionists are well meaning fellows who are good at heart and deserve our respect.
A swift reality check for some wouldn’t go amiss. Unionists have been screwing this country for over 300 years and they intend to continue.
[…] Moodievision: Alistair’s Lament […]
OMG, that is just superb. Tears running here…
‘Why-is-there-a-fundraiser-to-get-rid-of-me?’ 🙂
P.S Just to make sure the ‘Orangfest’ petition is appearing regularly via latest threads. Now at 18,155:
link to change.org
brilliant, Greg – I don’t often fully appreciate your humour but this was great laugh out loud stuff, we’ll all be singing it soon.
I see he plans on fighting the case. Brass neck doesn’t come close. No doubt his protectors have it all stitched up to protect him. But I think if he gets off with it and stays now, it will only stoke more resentment and anger against the libdems. Five years worth.
BBC r4 lunchtime news has Andy Coulson lawyer explain that Coulson was found guilty of phone hacking in England, plead not guilty to phone hacking in Scotland and got off with that.
Carmichael needs to get that exact same lawyer and judge.
Rough Bounds
You have it right. ALL Unionist MP’s know the truth. They all know that Scotland has been lied to. Oh how they laugh as Scotland has the pissed ripped out of it daily.
I can understand this from non Scots. Especially in the Empire atmosphere of Establishment Westminster.
However, those from north of the border, who if they actually visit their constituencies can see the damage caused. These folks are fucking utterly despicable.
All unionist Scottish MP’s are lying, self serving cunts.
Charles Kennedy is not exempt from this despite opposing the Iraq war.
It has all been said above except I’d like to point out one teeny, weeny mistake, the rain in our much loved Northern Isles tends to come horizonitaly rather than verticaly, LOL.
Auld Rock
Terrific Gregg & the team. Carmichael will be under a cloud for the rest of his days, hail, rain or shine!
😀 Yip – best yet.
Where can you hide in Orkney? I know MaesHowe.
link to historic-scotland.gov.uk
Really enjoyed that, brilliant. Love the sheep and camel.
Carmichael is a disgrace, propped up by tories who are desperate and still shit scared of what has happened in Scotland re the GE. We need to know who is paying for his defense. What a waste of money, while he is happy to let people go hungry and lose their homes etc, nothing short of immoral.
@heedtracker
So is Lord Burns saying that a guilty verdict in England has no bearing in a Scottish court.
Love it.
The best yet,keep it up,it brightened my day right up.
Thanks.
Not a big fan of Greg Moodie , but credit where it’s due! This is pure dead brilliant!
Is he just getting on with the job, holding meetings with his electorate and furthering the wellbeing of the people of Orkney and Shetland?
Or
Is he still in hiding and not at westminister today? Of all days for a liberal mp!
absolutely brilliant.
proves, imo, political empowerment brings out the absolute best in the people.
we have a voice and oh boy how it now rings out and sparkles.
🙂
Frankie Boyle’s piece for the guardian today.
I dare you not to fall off your chair enjoy 🙂
link to t.co
Best one yet. Bravo!
But what’s the idea of the elephant?
You know, I never realised he was such a good singer. When he does lose his seat, there’s always that to fall back on I suppose.
Scot Finlayson says:
3 June, 2015 at 1:54 pm
@heedtracker
So is Lord Burns saying that a guilty verdict in England has no bearing in a Scottish court.
Looks like it. Carmicheal’s a lawyer so no doubt he will be working out the same route Lord Burns takes and be “cleared” as the nice BBC r4 lady said Coulson was.
Or the slob could do the honourable thing and quit. And that £60k fundraiser could go towards actual need but its all about those good old fashioned LibDem values, that we’ve come to rely…
BEST VIDEO YET – THANKS GUYS
After yesterday’s utterly depressing trolfest from the very worst negative excrement Twitter has to offer, today’s sparkling humour is just the tonic.
Nice one Stu. Nice one Greg. Much appreciated.
I LOL’d at that – specially the last verse.
Well done!
8=)
Very funny, very well done.
When the intro first started I thought it was going to be a Proclaimers spoof:
If I go will you take back
Your letter from solicitor etc.
Also thought just a weensy wee bit unfair to highlight the FM as she has been remarkably restrained on the issiue IMO.
Really actually ROFL & PMSL. No advance warning (You suggested burning breeks – no wringin’ wans). Youse owe me big time! 🙂
Thats just reminded me to donate again to the fundraiser,thanks Greg!
Brilliant. Some kind soul should really send him some lucky white heather——-complete with adder!
Loved the video but one small thing I think was missed, Alistair being struck by lightning. I think if we cannot get the courts to do it then Mother Nature would do it very well.
jackie g
Cameron gets away with it because very large numbers of people in England and an uncomfortably large number of people in Scotland, believe he is talking about somebody else, and not them.
They think it will happen to some other person, not them, because they are the OK people that Cameron approves off.
Superb Greg.
Loved the song and the card board cut out is ssooooooo apt.
🙂
Ally, “I know Nuzzing” Carmichael. Thank goodness for the Brit Nat legal system cronies.
@Brian Fleming 2.41
It’s the elephant in the room.
tartanarse excels himself; if abuse won arguments, you’d be way ahead.
Absolutely brilliant 🙂
Was he laminated for this video ? That’s a lot of rain !
I didn’t realise Alistair had such a lovely singing voice, aw bless ;-D
The following is the last paragraph in Clegg’s tribute in the HoC to Charles Kennedy. “if we could all carry ourselves with a little more honesty, wisdom and humility of Charles Kennedy, politics would be held in much higher regard than it is today” He clearly doesn’t do irony as I’m sure he will be telling Carmichael this doesn’t apply to him of course.
We’ve found out today that it’s ok to lie in a court of law as long as your lies aren’t deemed to materially affect the outcome of a trial.
My prediction is that, following a very long and very expensive legal battle, we’ll eventually be told that it’s also ok to lie about your opponents during an election campaign so long as your lies aren’t deemed to materially affect the outcome of said election.
Might it now be a good idea to donate what’s left of the £55,000 fund to foodbanks rather than use it to further line the pockets of the legal profession?
Why the camel? Sheep, geese, elephants are all native, right. I’m ok with that and rain, also, but now perplexed about the camel.
Is there an arid desert region in Orkney?
Got it! It’s an Orkney coo. right?
Good stuff – ‘Orangefest’ petition comfortably past the 20k mark, in plenty of time for acknowledgement in the evening news reports 😉 –
link to change.org
ALANM says:
3 June, 2015 at 5:42 pm
We’ve found out today that it’s ok to lie in a court of law as long as your lies aren’t deemed to materially affect the outcome of a trial.
My prediction is that, following a very long and very expensive legal battle, we’ll eventually be told that it’s also ok to lie about your opponents during an election campaign so long as your lies aren’t deemed to materially affect the outcome of said election.
Might it now be a good idea to donate what’s left of the £55,000 fund to foodbanks rather than use it to further line the pockets of the legal profession?
===========
I’m thinking there might be something in this.
Another worry is that if Carmichael is forced to resign, there’s no guarantee he wouldn’t be re-elected in a by-election with an increased majority.
Charles Kennedy’s sad death seems to have brought out a bit of sympathy for the Lib Dems, and you can be sure there would a a huge tactical voting anti-SNP campaign.. going on about a one-party state etc
Tactically, it might be better going into the next Holyrood elections with a disgraced Carmichael.
Moodievision – Scotland’s Hadron Collider
Shining light on dark matters.
I’m buying your book.
Cracker Greg, best one yet!
O/T
I’ve just been watching STV news. They showed every leader, Clegg and even Abbott paying tribute to Charles Kennedy but not a whit from the SNP.
Did anyone watch this Commons ‘tribute’ today? Did no one from the SNP have their say?
If so I’m going to contact them, STV, and complain about this.
Meanwhile I’m off to see what I can find out online.
@Barontorc
It’s a dromedary as it only has one hump.
Plodmore: if abuse won arguments, you’d be…
If strength of character won you’d be lashing unionists for belittling and demeaning Scotland and all in it.
To continue Petra’s O/T comment.
Distinct absence of Scottish voices on the Kennedy tributes on the main evening news on BBC.
Subliminal message – will you “Sweaties” get back to the rear of the bus out of the way.
Petra – I believe Angus Robertson made a tribute.
@Ian B –
I still haven’t tracked down a vid of Donohoe’s demise but there is a wee glimpse of his big beetroot coupon on the panorama episode the other night… at 8:20 I dunno whether he’s gonnae clap his hands or say a prayer but eether way good fuckin riddance…
link to bbc.co.uk
Brilliant.
Ta
@ Petra 6:19pm
There were many tributes today.
Angus Robertson’s was one of them.
It was shown on BBC Parliament.
HTH
All unionist Scottish MP’s are lying, self serving cunts.
Charles Kennedy is not exempt from this despite opposing the Iraq war.
Well now he’s an angel, a unionist British angel, a Liberal Democrat soaring free over the non Scottish Highlands, for ever and ever LibDem, amen.
link to archive.is
What a creep out Steve Bell is, the btl tears are even worse but that’s UKOK tory world in England. eww
Yes and Socrates more than anything it sends out a message to those who don’t access the Internet that members of the SNP had nothing to say about Charles Kennedy at all.
I’m bl**dy raging (again). Charles Kennedy, a Scot, being paid tribute to by Cameron, Harman, Clegg and Abbott only, it would seem, as per STV.
I can’t access BBCi player for some reason and there is a version on youtube that shows Cameron, Harman and Clegg only. Can anyone post a video or whatever of todays PM Questions / tributes on here?
Tributes to Charles Kennedy from the commons
link to parliament.uk
Angus Robertson 12.57
Ian Blackford 1.8
As we see today Alistairs Pal Cameron delivering his Tribute for Charles Kennedy. Ah thought his leader wiz Clegg, Colour me Tory eh Alistair.
annie says ”Petra – I believe Angus Robertson made a tribute.”
I’m sure he would have Annie and maybe Alex (and others) too. I would have liked to have seen this, watched PMs Questions / Tributes, before I contact STV.
This is all part of propaganda machine strategy… withhold positive information and promulgate the negative.
I’m beginning to think that STV is every bit as bad as the BBC.
Will Podmore at 4.47
Mr Will
I know that unionists like to ignore the truth and try to lie to themselves and the public at large.
However, I think that it is just possible that you do indeed know of the outcome of the GE in May 2015.
A resounding and record breaking 56 seats out of 59(soon to be 57). Amazing.
Now forgive me, as I am a Scot(a real one) and to me that says to lying unionist MP’s, FUCK OFF.
Now I can’t say that I talk for the Scottish electorate, that is what elections are for and they seem to agree with me.
You may have noticed that over the last few days Lords have said it’s fine for MP’s to lie, even going as far as to say they all do it all the time.
Well it isn’t alright for public servants to lie Will. That’s another reason that there are 56 SNP MP’s.
Horrible lying bastards, even the dead ones.
Pointing out facts is not abuse btw Will, even if sweary words are used.
Fuck off Will. There’s a chap.
Can we not get wound up by perceived slights where there may be none? They are not going to show every tribute, and there are only 59 Scottish MP’s. Please, let us not see propaganda under every bush: there is plenty of it around more important than this. Just my view, of course
Barontorc @ 5.42
“Why the camel? Sheep, geese, elephants are all native, right. I’m ok with that and rain, also, but now perplexed about the camel.”
I think you’ll find the geese were Dodos,
as in dead as a. 🙂
Many thanks for that link G4jeepers. I’m off to complain to STV now!
Great cartoon from Greg. Best laugh I’ve had in ages.
O/T I’m not much into petitions, but here’s another that could do with more support.
link to change.org
onwards says @ 6.03pm
“Tactically, it might be better going into the next Holyrood elections with a disgraced Carmichael.”
I’ve felt that all along, we don’t want to make a martyr of THAT!
Just watched C4 news explain probable Carmichael defence in court. Sometimes lying under oath or as UK.gov minister isn’t an offence, says the Judge that let Coulson with not lying under oath in Edinburgh today.
Scotland feels a lot like an non existent English region this evening.
Angus Robertson tribute to Charles Kennedy.
link to youtube.com
Just catching up after work on the events of the day.
Watched the Daily Politics on Sky+
The BBC’s supposedly impartial James Lansdale was on discussing Charles Kennedy:
James Landale “When a politician dies occasionally you get people you know being polite cos’ they don’t think that it’s a very English thing not to speak of the dead”
Andrew Neil: “and even British too”
James Landale “And even British too”
So a Scottish politician dies and the BBC’s Landale comes out with a bizarre “quality” of the English.
Kudos to Andrew Neil who instantly picked up on Landale’s faux pas.
Alex on right now…live
link to bbc.co.uk
@John King
“onwards says @ 6.03pm
“Tactically, it might be better going into the next Holyrood elections with a disgraced Carmichael.”
I’ve felt that all along, we don’t want to make a martyr of THAT!”
Guys, I am absolutely certain there is far more benefit to the SNP and indy by keeping him there.
But!… there is a principle at stake here, unfortunately.
@heedtracker 6:57pm
You are entitled to your opinion about Unionist MP’s. Murray, Carmichael & Mundell. Whether they are Cunts or not is up for debate. I’ve no doubt they are. I won’t argue.
You state Charles Kennedy is not exempt from this. Despite not being an MP & being dead.
Your rant is bizarre.
Charles Kennedy was a decent guy. I can recant personal instances.
Any normal human being would look at the positives of a person’s life upon their death regardless of politics or personal differences.
Slagging him off from the safety of your keyboard after his death is nasty.
Independence will only be achieved by persuading others positively of the cause.
Speaking ill of the dead will not win converts.
Michelle Thomson maiden speech.
link to youtube.com
Fiona says ”Can we not get wound up by perceived slights where there may be none? They are not going to show every tribute, and there are only 59 Scottish MP’s. Please, let us not see propaganda under every bush: there is plenty of it around more important than this. Just my view, of course.”
I’m presuming you’re referring to my posts Fiona? Thanks for your opinion but it wont come as any surprise that I totally disagree with you.
I think that when news such as this is being broadcast in Scotland the Scots (half of them at least) would like to see / hear what members of the SNP have to say. The broadcast should have been representative of all political parties with tributes made by, at least, the Party Leaders.
I find it strange that they could air Diane Abbotts tribute but not one from ANY member of the third largest party at Westminster.
So far the MSM have made a point of publishing ‘selected snippets’ of Alex Salmonds commentary on Charles Kennedy in an attempt to portray him in a poor light. Broadcasting, as an example, Angus Roberston’s tribute today may have redressed this biased imbalance to some extent.
As I’ve said already the combination of withholding ‘positive’ data and promoting or promulgating ‘negative’ are well known propagandist strategies / techniques, that is if you have studied the subject.
A perceived slight? No I don’t think so. These types of tactics have clearly been utilised for quite some time now.
Alex Salmond’s performance just now on select committees was awesome. Must see TV 🙂
He gave a wee rebuke to Anna Soubry (Minister for Small
mindsBusiness) on good manners and decorum, owned. Hope someone can provide a link so I can save it.So many wonderful first speeches by true real beautiful people of Scotland – the word ‘proud’ has real value now.
@Almannysbunnet –
That Tory b’stard Menzies was an ignorant shit, well he knows why the SNP didn’t take their chair on the Scottish Select Committee in the last parliament. Shaking with anger at the sight of him..
@Croompenstein (6.45) –
Nice one. Cheers.
Now that Donohoe is a free agent, we might see him cropping up in George Square at Orangefest – at least, among those folk, he’s still a big nob, so to speak.
In the meantime, his website really needs an update. (It would be nice if he did it in a similarly zany style.)
link to youtube.com
From Bellacaledonia:
Beyond Orangefest By Mike Small
‘This is a Freedom Of Information request to Police Scotland (thanks to @lordanthony23). There were 608 Orange marches in Scotland (from April 2013) to 5th April 2014, 500 in Strathclyde alone at a cost of over half a million pounds of public money.
This puts pay to the argument that stopping the Orangefest would be somehow an act of censorship. It would not.They are hugely over-represented in public life.
By banning this event we would give a challenge to the idea that one group should be given free reign in the city centre of our largest city, with their track record, their already huge public presence, the likelihood of disorder and the massive cost to the public purse.
As we wrote last year: “Nobody asks why an event with 4,500 marchers and 4,000 spectators needs 3,000 stewards. A ratio of 2.8 participants to a steward? For context the ratio of primary school children: teachers is 16.5 to 1. The real sadness here should come from the fact that this will be forgotten by tomorrow. We’re used to seeing this on our streets, in our lives, every summer. It’s become one-of-those-things. Nobody’s in a rush to change it.”
The problem is that we have normalised and legitimised this culture. We are inured to sectarianism.The debate is cynical, weary and knowing. I write this on Wednesday, the event is on Saturday, the likelihood of it being stopped are slim but we can at least have a massive show of dissatisfaction and rejection of bigotry and make a stand for accountability from GCC.’
My futile attempt at better understanding for Greece’s dilemma: link to wp.me
Age?
From The National today – 99 years old…
“The politically active great-grandmother and keen reader of The National campaigned around her home town of Musselburgh, East Lothian, for a Yes vote in September’s referendum by leaving copies of the Wee Blue Book, which gave reasons why Scots should back independence, in various places around her town.”
Louisa (Babs) Johnston (age99) says –
I was quite active in the referendum. I would leave copies of the Wee Blue Book in the hairdressers, on the bus, in the doctor’s surgery, in fact anywhere I could.
Roger Knox (SNP Musselburgh branch) said –
Babs is a truly remarkable lady and great example to us all. She was very clever leaving copies of the Wee Blue Book around during the indy campaign. Dear knows how many people she helped win over to the independence cause.
SO
Babs honey if you are reading this – you are a STAR
Yes for all ages (no more silliness about age certain people).
@Almannysbunnet
After 7.30pm.
link to parliamentlive.tv
IvMoz says:
3 June, 2015 at 8:08 pm
@heedtracker 6:57pm
You are entitled to your opinion about Unionist MP’s. Murray, Carmichael & Mundell.
You’re very kind. But I took two opinions, compared and contrasted.
Before sermonising, have the decency to read stuff before shooting from the lip.
When people drink themselves to death, its a form of suicide or it’s an illness.
Either or and come the day, will the repulsive britnat unionist Steve Bell badly draw a fantasy landscape with the SNP logo floating over the Scottish Highlands and with some weird gargoyle visage of you know who?
Thanks to the UKOK unionist creep show, the blast zone of teamGB nukes like Trident easily covers Lochaber from Faslane. Its ok though, our imperial masters will keep us all safe in teamGB.
Sláinte
Now at 21,755 – ‘…ramming speeeeeeed!!!’
link to change.org
Age? From The National today – 99 years old…
Good on her! Pensioners rule. Okay?
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Paula Rose – wonder if Babs has already ordered a copy of the special edition Wee Blue Book – if not maybe Stuey will have a spare copy he could donate to her, or we could have a wee, £50? huddlefund* to get her one. (Note – a smaller effort/money than for a crowdfund. 😉 )
@TJenny (9.20)-
‘Huddlefund’
🙂
Nice one. That puts you in the running for Neologist of The Year Award. The current favourite is, of course, Jim Murphy.
If memory serves it was your good self who broke news of ‘fundilymundily’ to the WOS community before most of us had even seen any footage of that ill-fated ‘debate’.
K1 says ”Alex on right now…live.”
link to bbc.co.uk
Thanks for the link K1. I’ve been watching Alex and he’s brilliant. An absolute breath of fresh air in that godforsaken place. No doubt gives some of them a much needed laugh too.
The maiden speeches are very impressive especially with them managing to cram in and convey so much data / many facts. Extremely proud of them all.
The wonderful 99 year-old pensioner who joined the SNP – can anybody link me to a photograph? Thanks in anticipation.
As expected, the MSM blithely ignore the event.
O/T. A bit of nostalgia. A post of mine a week before the GE. How perceptive some commentators are. But is their anyway back with the current lot of incetuously recruited SPADS?
link to caltonjock.com
Ian Brotherhood – ;-), but am I not also in the running for a NOTY (award) for ‘sniggles’? 🙁
@heedtracker
I never shoot from the lip, I’m rather more cerebral than that.
I note you haven’t defended your original post.
Anyone who uses the C word has already lost any argument.
You bizarrely witter on about Steve Bell’s landscape & the SNP logo.
The bird in the sketch is the Liberal Democrat logo. Not the SNP’s!
Become better informed.
I am wondering if carbuncle will get his just deserves especially in the light of that arsehole cuntson getting off,
I am so fecking angry.
That Mark Menzies, Tory MP for Flyde, doon sooth, is a right wee angry nyaff wi a pole right up his a***, isn’t he? Y’d think it wiz his playgrund and naebdy else wzi aloud to play their ain games…he can giruhimself as far I’m concerned. Of course the Socttish Affairs committee should be populated with a majority, if not all Scottish MP’s, tough shit if he doesn’t like it. Some mithers dae huv them right enough! W**ker.
IvMoz: Anyone who uses the C word has already lost any argument.
I believe Heedtracker was quoting another poster but didn’t put the offending sentence in quotation marks.
Heedtracker is a seasoned fighter for Scotland. He pays little attention to sentence construction concentrating instead on dedication and passion and Guardian claptrap.
IvMoz says:
3 June, 2015 at 9:43 pm
@heedtracker
I never shoot from the lip, I’m rather more cerebral than that.
I note you haven’t defended your original post.
I do witter but please try and read the threads before you make a fool of yourself.
This is the my honourable friends opinion cut n pasted below. Do I concur? Why yes I do, for a whole host of reasons. Do I have compassion for alcoholics? ofcourse.
Do I want to throw up at hard core UKOK thugs like unionist The Graun’s Steve Bell’s deeply creepy and often perverted sentimental anti Scottish propaganda? yes.
Do I think Carmichael will go to court and win, after Coulson got off with it today, yes I do and so on
Anyway you cerebral, not from the lip shooter:D
tartanarse says:
3 June, 2015 at 1:43 pm
Rough Bounds
You have it right. ALL Unionist MP’s know the truth. They all know that Scotland has been lied to. Oh how they laugh as Scotland has the pissed ripped out of it daily.
I can understand this from non Scots. Especially in the Empire atmosphere of Establishment Westminster.
However, those from north of the border, who if they actually visit their constituencies can see the damage caused. These folks are fucking utterly despicable.
All unionist Scottish MP’s are lying, self serving cunts.
Charles Kennedy is not exempt from this despite opposing the Iraq war.
@ grousebeater hope this works.
scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11407026_1607886082826989_4819420357885974632_n.jpg?oh=802fe26af8d492786fcd41056305b1c5&oe=560D29C0
@TJenny –
‘…am I not also in the running for a NOTY (award) for ‘sniggles’?’
Sadly not my friend:
‘Sniggle, v. to snigger; to laugh sneeringly; to giggle.
Sniggle, v. to poach fish by snaring them in a mean way.’
(The Scots Dialect Dictionary, Alexander Warrack, 1911.)
(Hang on…you were deploying ‘sniggle’ as a noun, right? I’ll have a word on the q.t. with one of the judges. ;))
@ K1 says ”That Mark Menzies, Tory MP for Flyde, doon sooth, is a right wee angry nyaff wi a pole right up his a***, isn’t he? Y’d think it wiz his playgrund and naebdy else wzi aloud to play their ain games…he can giruhimself as far I’m concerned. Of course the Socttish Affairs committee should be populated with a majority, if not all Scottish MP’s, tough shit if he doesn’t like it. Some mithers dae huv them right enough! W**ker.”
It’s a real eye opener don’t you think? You can see they’ve been getting away with murder for years (with the Scottish Labs) and I don’t think they’re one bit happy about facing Alex again plus his 55 colleagues.
I get the impression that the Scots are now educating the House. Too bad most ordinary people wont get to see this.
@ Petra
That half million pounds is a lot of Police Scotland’s budget, especially given that they needed to save 60 million last year and need to save the same this year.
Can we really afford the Police to spend that amount of money on chaperoning a group of out of shape bigots, who most certainly dont attend the church they feel a need to pretend to be part of, with questionable intellect, hygene and sobriety, wearing I’ll fitting and poor quality pseudo military clothing, celebrating a nasty sectarian war of over three hundred years ago?
Well done Glasgow City Council, well done.
@ronnie anderson
SNP latest recruit.
Alex Salmond scottish affairs stooshie.
link to youtube.com
heedtracker,
“Sometimes lying under oath or as UK.gov minister isn’t an offence, says the Judge that let Coulson with not lying under oath in Edinburgh today.”
As I have been saying, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core.
And the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.
IvMoz:The bird in the sketch is the Liberal Democrat logo. Not the SNP’s!
Heedtracker wasn’t referring to Bell’s current pic but asking the question of whether Bell would give the same treatment to a prominent SNP politician (I’m making the supposition it’s Big Eck). Given some of the turgid wastes of ink the man claims credit for, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it include gravestones and kilted drunken revellers.
That Menzies character would make you ashamed to be a Scot. An Establishment arse licking knob head
IvMoz at 8.08
Hello. My name is Tartanarse.
Before you go off talking shite, I recommend you read all of the thread.
Mr Heedtracker was indeed quoting me.
Let me give you a list of dead cunts.
Maggie Thatcher. Donald Dewar. Hitler. Pinochet. Jimmy Savile. Cyril Smith. Fred West.
Obviously I could go on but you think that it’s a bit off to speak ill of the dead.
I argue that Fred West was a cunt. I will never lose that argument just because I have used the word cunt.
Does this compute?
ALL Unionist MP’s past, present alive or dead, know that Scotland is, has been and will continue to be fucked over and that makes every last one of them lying cunts.
That can never be made right by anything they do that salves a wee bit of their small conscience.
So with all that said all that remains is for me to ask you to bugger aff. Cunt.
@jock mc X (10.26) –
Brilliant link. Many thanks. Here it is again for those who can’t be bothered scrolling up – Alex Salmond revelling in winding-up the Tories.
You can tell the guy is having the time of his life – the big fish finally escaped from that wee Holyrood pond, and he’s wagging his tail big-time.
A superb wee snifter of things to come…
link to youtube.com
@IvMoz
“All unionist Scottish MP’s are lying, self serving cunts.
Charles Kennedy is not exempt from this despite opposing the Iraq war.”
Grouse Beater seriously does the above look like a quote to you. Fair enough but I can’t see it.
The many thousands who never comment but may read this thread will see heedtrackers comment and read it for what it is. It is clear and unequivocal.
“All Scottish unionist MP’s are liars and cunt’s”… including Charles Kennedy.”
As far as I’m concerned this is a foolish attitude, I don’t believe for a moment that just because you are a representative of a party that is against Independence i.e. a Unionist that you are either or both a liar and a cunt.
Heedtracker, whether you care or not I enjoy a lot of your posts and I’m sure that there are tens of thousands more that you will never hear from.
Calling anyone a liar or a cunt will get you nor the Independence any further forward.
Thanks Grouse Beater and Balaaargh.
Scotland’s Highland’s and Islands belong to Scotland but they’ve been destroyed by UKOK unionists, from super rich tax dodging City elitists, land owner neo fascists, mass unemployment and emigration, to their catastrophic environmental damage for blood sports quick buck economics.
But a LibDem that may have drunk himself to death, is a now a UKOK angel in the sky over Lochaber and the last blatant liar LibDem Carmichael wont quit.
Great video guys 🙂
@ jock mc X
Thanks for the link jock its so good to see oor Eck in full flow again, they are going to have their hands full with our former FM, he is worth 50 of those Tory light weight politicians and i am being generous to them and that Menzies guy what on earth was he babbling about last parliament ,exactly last is the key word what an idiot lol
I would have thought they would be happy that we decided to come down to their big house and take part for a change ,but no it doesnt seem like they are ,what can you do there is just no pleasing some people lol
Everyone, did you notice Gove standing at the back of the commons watching Alex? 4mins 50 secs in. He looks amused at Alex taking his pals tae task…ah think he was enjoying it as much as we were. They don’t know whit’s gonnae hit them as time goes on!
Aye Petra, Menzies, stupidly, in berating Alex about not letting him intervene and snidely referring to his time as First Minister, then goes on to do the exact same thing (not letting SNP intervene) as a ‘fuck you’. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Alex didn’t let him in, as he quite rightly said, because the front bench was ‘moving him along’, whereas he didn’t allow an intervention, because he’s a snidey petty minded twat.
The intelligent ones (I know oxymoronic for a tory), will admire and love it, in spite of themselves and the stupid ones will just reveal their complete lack of debating skills, and get angry.
I’ll be watching out for that little prick gettin’ eaten for breakfast by the SNP. We will be running the Scottish Affairs Committee, for all the reasons that Alex, rightly, pointed out.
link to youtube.com
Well that didn’t take long before the vile comments about Kennedy began to surface .
Would’ve been nice to get this to 25k by midnight. It’s not going to happen, but still, 22,814 people telling GCC what they can do with their ‘Orangefest’ isn’t bad going.
The GCC will, no doubt, roundly ignore this, as will the MSM, but many folk are deeply appreciative of the effort made – will Julie Philp come in here to take a bow?
link to change.org
Uptight folks.
Please understand that when people tell lies, they are liars.
Charles Kennedy knowingly told lies to me on my telly.
ALL other Unionist know the truth. They actually are liars. This is not speculation, this is the truth. I hope that all folks for independence know that it is possible, as admitted to, finally by Cameron himself.
This website has heroically informed us of how Scotland can be independent in great detail, debunking all of the bollocks from Westminster.
These MP’s are all privy to the information that says Scotland can be independent but all lie to preserve their status and gravy train. The worst of these are Scots who represent some of the shittest places in the UK, one of which I am from.
Life could have been so much better for all of us if we hadn’t been lied to by these folk who claim to represent us and I can only describe them as a bunch of cunts, and even then I think I am being generous.
Get over yourselves and wake up to the fact that there are NO nice Unionists.
Heedtracker
Please give a rest to your unnecessary and cruel comments about Charles Kennedy.
I agree with Thepnr , we don’t bring new recruits to our cause by calling the 50% who voted for other parties “cunts”.
I bet you wouldn’t do it to their faces in a pub!
@ scotspine says ”That half million pounds is a lot of Police Scotland’s budget, especially given that they needed to save 60 million last year and need to save the same this year.
Can we really afford the Police to spend that amount of money on chaperoning a group of out of shape bigots, who most certainly dont attend the church they feel a need to pretend to be part of, with questionable intellect, hygene and sobriety, wearing I’ll fitting and poor quality pseudo military clothing, celebrating a nasty sectarian war of over three hundred years ago?
Well done Glasgow City Council, well done.”
There’s the cost of Policing scotpine and for the Council workers who have to clean up their horrendous mess.
Police Scotland have to pay for overtime and / or pull Police away from their regular duties leaving decent individuals unprotected.
There’s the inconvenience, traffic held up / detoured and the fear factor. I know of people who wont frequent Glasgow on Saturday now … so loss of revenue for shops …. other than fast food and booze outlets.
More than anything it’s what they stand for. Try explaining that to your children! Holyrood is spending millions in an attempt to deal with sectarianism in Scotland, demands are being made on football clubs to clean up their act and GCC seems to be determined to thumb their nose at this.
This isn’t about commemorating a battle or King Billy versus King James. This is about Protestants versus Catholics (also Union v SNP now), everyone knows this, and it’s disgusting and inflammatory.
We have to ask ourselves if Mr Mathieson / GCC would permit 500 Muslim marches a year and a Muslimfest at Freedom Square to celebrate some obscure 300 year old Muslim battle won against the Sikhs. Maybe he should be asking himself this before they, or others, make the request and also be mindful of who actually pays his recently enhanced wage.
If they, OO, want to celebrate the Battle of the Boyne I suggest that they pack up their picnic hampers, tune their flutes and go loll on the banks of Irelands River Boyne: Steer clear of Scotlands River Clyde. If they fancy marching up and down the Boyne stretches for a good 70 miles or so.
@Tjenny
Like the huddlefund idea for a WBB for Babs. Count me in.
Kirsty Blackman maiden speech.
link to youtube.com
Calling anyone a liar or a cunt will get you nor the Independence any further forward.
Sorry, can’t agree. Sitting back and being a verbal punchbag for Unionist MPs, Westminster, the Brit Establishment, the UK MSM, fuckwits on Twitter and facebook and trolls on here and all over the internet as they deliver below-the-belt lies, smears, fearbombs, abuse, offense and all the other dirty tricks they get up to attacking *my* (our) country, *my* (our) countrypeople, *my* (our) hopes for independence, *my* (our) government, *my* (our) culture, etc. should *not* be an option.
Sitting back and saying, “Tsk! That’s terrible! But whit can ye dae, eh…” might be the action of some… but not this one. Being all nicey, nicey is fine, but independence – especially from the UK and all its devious actors – will not be won this way. NB: the Scottish independence referendum – the Yes campaign lost. Who were the ones who played nicey, nicey again…?
I’m not saying we should all be screaming, shouting, abusing, lying, smearing, etc when posting BTL. That can be left to the Unionists. What I am saying is, if some posters want to give like-for-like then go for it, and who can blame them?
As for not bringing independence any further forward, sorry, I don’t buy it. Personally, I want to see more of us who want independence to stick up for ourselves more often, show some balls, give as good as we get. If that means calling someone out, deservedly, as a fucker, a cunt, or whatever then so be it. Respect comes from standing up for yourself and what you believe in.
We are in a ‘soft’ war whether we like it or not. We are seen as an enemy. Our independence will have to be won one ‘battle’ at a time. Being too nice and soft will end up in a crushing defeat. Give these bastards as good as they give out. Don’t give them an inch. Stand up strong… and independence will be ours.
Fireproof Jim at 11.53 and everyone else having a go at Heedtracker.
Please read all the thread.
Heedtracker didn’t call anyone a cunt. That was me. I called ALL unionist MP’s cunts, because they are cunts.
So far as I can gather from the thread, NO ONE, has actually called non SNP or NO voters cunts. We will win people round when they can actually absorb the fact that unionist MP’s are in fact cunts.
This is all fairly simple and I can’t for the life of me work out why some folk are being tight arsed about it or why they think it is somehow wrong to state that Charles Kennedy appeared on telly and lied along with his fellow cunts, because he did.
I, incidentally would tell anyone in any pub that they were a cunt if indeed they were a cunt.
Telling the truth is not cruel and I challenge anyone to find any cruel comment in relation to him in any of my posts.
@tartanarse
Good moniker and well named. Am arse is what you are.
Oops…might have been for all the reasons that Pete, rightly, pointed out! 🙂
Fireproofjim says:
3 June, 2015 at 11:53 pm
Heedtracker
Please give a rest to your unnecessary and cruel comments about Charles Kennedy.
I haven’t done, cant be any clearer, only expressing an opinion, creeps like Bell are nauseating nationalists and this union is great for England but stinks for Scotland, in the round.
This is a long read but check out England’s unionist red tory failures grapple with, well people like me
link to archive.is
“Alastair Campbell – who was increasingly involved in the final weeks of the campaign, even attending meetings with Miliband’s inner circle – wrote a punchy “one nation” speech for Chatham House. “Taking Britain to the edge of Europe and firing the flames of Scottish Nationalism, as Cameron did the morning after the referendum, are desperate acts of survival,” the speech was to have said. “He is a man that cares more about a few more years in power than a few hundred years of a union that has served our country and served the world so well.”
Alexander thought it would work. Others feared it would simply provide another day of media headlines about the SNP. But Baldwin thought it was essential to tackle the issue. “The strategic justification was obvious,” he said. “We had to lance the boil. Walking down Whitehall naked assaulting random passersby would have been better than having another day on whether we would do a deal with the SNP. It was murdering us. We knew it was murdering us because we could get another story up. But we blinked and chose not to do it.”
Another aide explained why the Campbell speech was axed: “The rival view was that our vulnerability on English nationalism was really very severe and anything that sounded like we were defending the Scots would be music to the Tories’ ears, and just make the problem worse. So the two arguments cancelled each other out.”
That’s Dougie Alexander in there, now replaced by a 20 year old woman but must not let Scots near their English Westminster eh? So vote tory and lance their Scottish boil, with English bigot vote.
You’ve changed your tune Thep.
I won’t respond in kind.
I’ve oft agreed with you and publicly. I’ve often disagreed too but kept it to myself.
Disappointing.
heedtracker says:
Either or and come the day, will the repulsive britnat unionist Steve Bell badly draw a fantasy landscape with the SNP logo floating over the Scottish Highlands and with some weird gargoyle visage of you know who?
Absolutely correct!
If you’ve been paying any attention to the lying, hypocritical “left-leaning” (ROFL!) Guardian and its hardline stance against Scottish independence, Scotland and Scots in general; its rabid support for Jim Murphy (halo pics and all); its constant rubbishing of Salmond, Sturgeon and the SNP and etc., you’ll then be well aware of their ‘fair’, ‘balanced, and ‘impartial’ “Scottish correspondent [sic] Severin Carrell, their deputy-editor, Carmichael-must-stay-and-Scots-are-inferior Michael White, and their “Do you believe Scotland should go and fuck itself?” and Sturgeon-is-a-Nazi propaganda cartoonist Steve Bell.
Two out of the three of Carrell, White and Bell are definitely cunts. Which two? Aha! Now that would be telling… You’ll just have to make up your own mind!
As for this OO thing i do hope you will all stay away from it ,let them do their silly little thing ,in fact all you like minded independence people in Glasgow, why dont all you visit Edinburgh for the day, its such a lovely City bring your family and friends see the castle ,the gardens have a picnic ,and visit the parliament and lots more better than listening to a bunch of throw backs from the dark ages 😉
This delay in post appearance is annoying.
DerekM I nearly agree, Edinburgh is nice but for it’s British Red zone. Other than that I like it.
To Cynicalhighlander 9.12 and Almannysbunnet re Parliament live after 7.30.
Notice smirky baldy Tory of questionable birth in front bench, Soames??? dismissive as usual of Scottish MP’s Questions
While we snarl away at each other here, the faithful ‘brothers’ are doing their rehearsals for the ‘Orangefest’, which, so far as I can tell, is pretty much the same as any other major Orange walk, only it’s been ‘branded’, and given the imprimatur of GCC. ‘Ooooh, it’s a cultural event dontcha know?!’
This is Gordon Matheson’s swansong. He’s toast.
Mike Small, on BellaC, has already outlined how much this is costing the people of Glasgow. A Google search of ‘Orangefest’ will also throw up the disruption to normal traffic being endured by commuters – the bus services, so vital to impoverished elderly, are threadbare on the day. The companies involved are doing their best to inform citizens of the cancellations, but we all know how traumatic even minor changes can be to those dependent on such facilities – and not all of them can be informed, even by mainstream media.
That any major city in a civilised country can allow such inconvenience to a major sector of its most vulnerable people is, in itself, utterly damning.
But, hey, let’s wait and see what happens on Saturday, eh?
GCC is not going to call this off. Police Scotland is not going to call it off. Anyone who turns up in George Square bearing an SSP banner, RIC, Green, Saltire, whatever-else, will be carted off by police for ‘their own safety’. If you want to exercise your ‘civil liberty’ to hoist an SSP banner or Saltire in George Square on Saturday, go ahead, but don’t blame the cops when they cart you away. If you are detained for twelve hours you will be mightily pissed-off, but at least you’ll be able to go home with the same number of teeth as you had in the morning.
Let them have their ‘Orangefest’ – let it be witnessed, filmed, monitored every step of the way, in and out. Let ‘citizen journalism’ prove what it can do by documenting what this is all about, from early on the Saturday morning, when they get on the busses and trains, to when they board those same busses and trains home, after having caused Scotland’s largest city to evacuate it’s own centre through fear and loathing.
Give them enough rope and they will do it – they really are that daft.
But we’re not – if any blood is shed on Saturday, let it be amongst themselves, through frustration that they didn’t get they rammy they always, always crave.
There will be trouble on Saturday. No doubt. But it needn’t have anything to do with the pro-indy movement. Let the ‘faithful’ do it all by themselves – then, on Sunday evening, as GCC workers are still clearing up the mess, we launch yet another petition – to get rid of whoever in the GCC permitted this retarded nonsense in the first place.
English Socialism = National Socialism (the Fabian Society having been usurped by white supremacist English Nationalist imperialists, in the early 20th century – Viscount Milner’s Kindergarten)
Scottish Socialism = ?
I trust my wifes’ instincts on all matters to do with interpersonal behaviour so I showed her the posts with all the c@@nts and she asked if i was sure the writers wished Scotland to be independent because she thought they were written by people who were either stupid or actually were in the other camp but pretending to be supporters.
The usual suspects will get all het up but just think about it! Hearts and minds are rarely won with a kick in the rollocks.
@ Grouse Beater cynicalHighlander has linked that Photo of the 99 year old at 10:23 pm
Derek M , Ref Visit Edinburgh .
Good idea .
I had to go to Hollyrood recently and utilised the “Park&Ride” from 1 stop down from Airport .
Free parking and Tram was £3/3.50 . It was a very enjoyable visit , quite relaxing . 10/10
@ tartanarse , I have not read the thread completely but understand your point .
We perhalps do require reminding about some of the crap them @unts said last year . Scaring the $hit oot o the Auld folk about the Pension . I am aware of some o the older folk who were very worried about it being a YES and their life would be turned upside down ! Poor souls dinnae expect the @unts @ BBC to be liars FFS
So for that alone you are right yon Onionists are @unts !
That said the C word would not be my choice word , am a bit Al Fashint !
All other expletives together would be just fine !
I should add that an Onionists is not the No voter etc , I refer explicitly to those on MSM etc who are elevated to a position whereby their opinion is to be considered by the population. Those who should have been imparting FACTS .
Thepnr,Dal riata,heedtracker and tartanarse
Everyone has their own style of commenting and although I find it hard to be too critical of individuals in time of death and would tehd to highlight their positive traits,I can still appreciate the more hard edged comments.
When it comes down to it I can’t think of any countries which have gained their independece from the British by being nice and sympathetic to them.
Many peoples have had to do far more than a bit of straight talking and name calling to free their country.
So all is fair in love and war as they say.
talking athletics 70/80s
steroids–East Germany weren’t shy
I remember the lass who looked like my dad
Sorry I’m late. Is this the right place for the Derek and Clive auditions?
Lol @ bookie from hell
I think more will come out in the following days n weeks.
I do remember that when they introduced new dopeing laws and ways to find the cheats after London 2012, suddenly there was a LOT of “retirements”.
I think more so in cycling than any other sport.
Might be down to hazy recollection, but Im sure a few very well known cyclists and coaches suddenly retired, after promising to be at the commonwealth games, after the new rules and testing came about.
A repost of links for early birds,or is it night owls.
Angus Robertson Tribute to Charles Kennedy
link to youtube.com
Ian Blackford tribute to his constituency rival
link to youtube.com
Michelle Thomson maiden speech
link to youtube.com
Kirsty Blackman maiden speech
link to youtube.com
Alex Salmond scottish affairs committee stooshie
link to youtube.com
Sorry if I missed it further up
But can anybody tell me what the Scottish Select Committee is actually for.
Eddie Munster, rather a large number of high profile athletes from the good old finger pointing USA vanished from view too.
Paula Rose @ 8.36pm
“So many wonderful first speeches by true real beautiful people of Scotland – the word ‘proud’ has real value now.”
Since we’re no allowed tae clap
HEAR HEAR. 😉
________________________________________________________________
Ian Brotherhood says @8.42PM
“In the meantime, his website really needs an update. (It would be nice if he did it in a similarly zany style.)”
(Brain Donahoe)
HE HAS!
link to tinyurl.com
🙂
_____________________________________________________________
Paula Rosae says
“Age?
From The National today – 99 years old…
“The politically active great-grandmother and keen reader of The National campaigned around her home town of Musselburgh, East Lothian, for a Yes vote in September’s referendum by leaving copies of the Wee Blue Book, which gave reasons why Scots should back independence, in various places around her town.”
My wife used to deliver leaflets with an elderly neighbour who was a lifelong supporter of independence, his name is Jimmy Sinclair and he’s well over 100 years old and still living, he was feted by Alex Salmond during the YES campaign and has been entertained by Nicola Sturgeon in Bute house
_________________________________________________
Ian Brotherthood says
“Now at 21,755 – ‘…ramming speeeeeeed!!!’”
In amungst ye
link to tinyurl.com
david hammond @11.48
“Well that didn’t take long before the vile comments about Kennedy began to surface .”
I have a question,
are you a total prat 24/7 or are you allowed time off?
where were you yesterday screaming about the faux anger by those clowns on twitter accusing the SNP of Charles Kennedys murder?
or are we fair game?
pillock!
Thedogphilosopher says @3.42
“Sorry I’m late. Is this the right place for the Derek and Clive auditions?”
3.fuckin 42 are you fuckin serious
Yer too fuckin late these two fuckers got the job
link to tinyurl.com
bookie from hell says
talking athletics 70/80s
steroids–East Germany weren’t shy
I remember the lass who looked like my dad.
Eh…em…er…nothing! 🙁
@ ME 🙂
Paula Rosae?
Latin name. 🙂
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Looking back over this thread this morning it’s unfortunate that we went many years with only the odd use of gutter language until recently. Even then it was mostly in humour or to underline a point which it did effectively due to being used so infrequently.
if I find it distasteful think how many new vistors will react.
those who sink to attacking all opposition with blanket swear words are not helping the cause of Independence one bit.
liz Gray says:
Sorry if I missed it further up
But can anybody tell me what the Scottish Select Committee is actually for.
link to parliament.uk
This is what it’s supposed to be for. The SNP are about to try and make it work and the Tories are doing their damnedest to stuff the committee with a majority of their MP’s. Alex was getting right up them about it last night.
I hope that wee scroat Mark Mingin (I cant spel Menzies) 🙁
carries his water wings and nose clip about with him at all times because if he ever walks into Alex Chris, Pete and the boys on the veranda he’s gaun fur a dook in the Thames
A big man when he’s got his pals wi um eh?
John King says
“My wife used to deliver leaflets with an elderly neighbour who was a lifelong supporter of independence, his name is Jimmy Sinclair and he’s well over 100 years old and still living, he was feted by Alex Salmond during the YES campaign and has been entertained by Nicola Sturgeon in Bute house”
John are you in Edinburgh and is Jimmy an ex postie?
I’m sure m6 mum and dad were SNP branch member’s along with him in the 50’s and 60’s.
If so such a learned man and a true gent.Wonderful story!
Woohahahahaha
BBC reporter asking the public what the think the Women’s institute does, one smartarse said
“Its about women empowering themselves”
(good start)reporter said
“empowering themselves to do what?”
punter
“to make cakes”
EPIC FAIL!
AND I choked on my porridge,
so all is right with the world. 🙂
The Isolator @ 6.57
I don’t know where Jimmy was from originally but during the 60s and 70s he lived in Cardenden in Fife but he may very well have lived in Edinburgh I don’t know, I do know he spent several years living in Germany, if that helps. 🙂
this is the gentleman
link to tinyurl.com
Has Twitter sold out?
@ John King
Nice to hear Irene used to campaign for the SNP with Jimmy Sinclair.
He is actually a relative of mine – my late grandmother was his cousin.
I visited him recently. He is 102 and still going strong.
We talked at length about independence. He is still determined to see it happen in his lifetime!
@ The Isolator
Don’t know if Jimmy was ever a postie but he’s certainly a Fifer.
Wow small world quinie,
Irene has always thought the world of him , long before the independence cMpaign began.
So, have I got this straight, Twitter will allow politicians, political types and Trolls to tweet whatever lies, propaganda or defamation they want, but they wont let anyone make it public once the Tweet is deleted.
What do you know One_Scot?
Is that fulla Menzies no the Paper Boy in Westmidden.Wee tip Menzies dont mess wie Alex,he,ll paste you intae the Hasard,as a footnote.
Ach well ,John & Quinie thanks for the replies that definitely isn’t Jimmy the postie.Just remember him regaling anyone who would listen (and most people did) on the inevitability of independence.A fantastic speaker.
It was such a long time ago in the dark days of Scottish self loathing,Jimmy the postie was such an inspiration to young and old alike.A bit like your Jimmy I’d imagine.
My, how times have changed no more self doubt for us.Independence is coming and your Jimmy will be there I’m sure!!
From Revs Twitter feed,
link to t.co
Irene didnt so much campaign Quine as help deliver leaflets as a very young girl,
Which while I say that it reminds me of a recent little incident with my own granddaughter who could think of nothing better to do with her time than to help me deliver leaflets (she must have posted hundreds of wee blue books before the referendum)
And while were were leafleting for Roger Mullin in his successful campaign I covered one side of the street while she too the other side (she’s only 9 years old)I stopped at one house to speak to the householder who during the conversation told me to turn round and look at my granddaughter,
She was standing at a door which clearly had no letterbox and she was puzzling how she would get this leaflet in the door,
and she noticed there was a high narrow window open in a small extension to the front door like a small conservatory, and in it was a rather noisy and aggressive dog, but in spite of the angry barking of the dog she jumped up an down until she managed to get the leaflet through the open window,
It was cold that day with occasional glimpses of sunshine allowing me to warm up a little before it disappeared behind the next cloud,
After witnessing the efforts of my wonderful granddaughter (who just wouldn’t give up no matter the opposition) warmed me and I finished my side of the street with a broad smile.
Thanks for the link, Cynical Highlander
Further to the more brutal posts above there is an argument that yes using the kid gloves for 3 years probably lost us the referendum. I say we should up the ante and meet fire with fire.
I see many businesses are losing money on Saturday due to the orangefest. Loads of cancellation from people fearing trouble. More pressure on GCC.
Wee Ginger Dug in the National, a must read piece on the Smith Commission bill.
link to thenational.scot
@ John King
That’s a fantastic wee story about your grand-daughter. She’ll remember that for years to come, out delivering the WBBs with her Grandad.
@ The Isolator
We owe a great deal to those older troopers who were convinced of the arguments long before the independence cause became “fashionable” (for want of a better word). It wasn’t easy back then to convince a Labour-weaned populace that Scotland needed and deserved to be independent.
Maybe someone else on here will be able to tell us if Jimmy the Postie from Edinburgh is still around.
@Joemcg
The SNP has had the most spectacular electoral success in its history but you feel nostalgic for the days in the wilderness by advocating .”meeting fire with fire”
Give the new team a few months to spread its message before shooting ourselves in the foot.
Of course if you do not share the SNP outlook,please amphasise that you have a different political agenda so that we do not lose support from those who find your aggression distasteful.
A joyous rendition of a maudlin wee tune. Great BVs!
Famous15-ok we will let the other side just take the piss out of us and get nasty while we curl in the corner and shrug our shoulders. Sure fire way to lose the next vote if you ask me.
‘Orangefest’ petition now at 23,739.
link to change.org
@ Almannysbunnet says:
”This is what it’s supposed to be for. The SNP are about to try and make it work and the Tories are doing their damnedest to stuff the committee with a majority of their MP’s. Alex was getting right up them about it last night.”
”Scottish Affairs Committee – Role – The Scottish Affairs Committee was appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration and policy of the Scotland Office and its associated public bodies
We are a Committee of eleven Members of Parliament appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration and policy of the Scotland Office including relations with the Scottish Parliament. We also look at the administration and expenditure of the offices of the Advocate General for Scotland (excluding individual cases and advice given within government by the Advocate General).
We work principally by undertaking inquiries. We choose our own subjects of inquiry and seek evidence from a wide range of groups and individuals with relevant interests and experience.
We produce reports setting out our findings and making recommendations to the Government. The Government has to respond to these recommendations within two months.”
You can understand why the Tories are doing their damnedest to stuff the committee with a majority of their MP’s Almannysbunnet. No doubt to cover up what Camerons lackeys, Mundell and Richard Keen, will be getting up to. It’ll be interesting to see how this one pans out.
Morning Wingers!
Just to keep the pot boiling, we should be getting this over the 25k at some point today. So do what you can
link to change.org
Ian Brotherhood @ 9.46
I sent an email to Roger Mullin this morning highlighting the FOI request about how much GCC spent on policing repeated OO events and linked the petition so hopefully someone might get on the phone to GCC and tell them to get their house in order.
Clootie says ”Looking back over this thread this morning it’s unfortunate that we went many years with only the odd use of gutter language until recently. Even then it was mostly in humour or to underline a point which it did effectively due to being used so infrequently. If I find it distasteful think how many new vistors will react. those who sink to attacking all opposition with blanket swear words are not helping the cause of Independence one bit.”
Yes it’s a bit of a shame Clootie. One of the ‘new visitors’ was going to be my young niece who’s been constantly harping on to read the posts on Wings. There are so many extremely interesting posts which would have been very educational for her but I’m afraid it’s not going to happen. It’s a no go area for her for the time being.
@Joemcg
I am probably wasting my time with you but I aint curling up in a corner. You do not need to be a bully or a thug to get your point across.
Nicola Sturgeon is infinitely more effective than anything you are hinting at, Just one nutter losing patience and it would be “Good night,Vienna”
Mahatma Ghandi won.
@Famous 15
Joemcg isn’t the only one on this site who thinks that the kid gloves approach may have lost us the referendum, we’ll never know.
What the ‘honourable’ approach did do, was awaken lots of people to the hypocasy of the Labour Party in Scotland, and that is what caused the landslide victory for the SNP, because there was no alternative to vote for (I also think we got a bit of a sympathy vote from people who were saying ‘sorry’ for voting NO)
You say “give them a few months”‘, but if Alec Salmond’s fear that the Scottish Affairs committee will be stuffed with Tory MPs comes to pass we’ll know they intend to treat our representatives with contempt. We’ll also know we can’t play by their rules and win.
I’m very afraid that the 40% increase in the SNP vote at the GE will melt away if our representatives say “Sorry, we’re doing our best, but these are the rules”.
You seem to take issue with the term ‘fight fire with fire’, would you also take issue with ‘levelling the playing field’, because the sentiment is the same, but is probably a more acceptable term for the queasy.
A final point, we may have had a “spectacular electoral success”, but it was still only silver, and who’s to say different tactics wouldn’t have won gold.
I don’t recall being threatening aggressive or abusive on any of my posts famous not that you are accusing me but I can see how some of us lose the plot when it appears we cannot say the slightest thing without causing outrage and the other side is horrendous. I felt we were too nicey nicey throughout the campaign and still lost. I just don’t see us winning going down as you say the Gandhi route.
OK just what do you suggest?
Spell it out and we will say if you have a valid point,
How about a fiery cross on Freedom Square this weekend.
Seriously I have not spent sixty years advocating a cause which is now within our grasp and to just stand by to see it being dashed by impatient and impetuous fools.
Macart at 8.48
Indeed. A great piece by WGD
Particularly appreciated the suggestion that “Scotland will only get proper devolution from Westminster when Mundell is in conjunction with Uranus.”
PS Hasn’t taken the “Scottish” Sun long to turn against the SNP.
I think we all knew that was coming.
As one who finds the use of certain language offensive though I understand in the heat of a moment expletives will be used, it is surely easier not to include them while using the written word?
My return flight from holiday with my 5 year old grandson was marred by the happy threesome behind me who could not string a loud sentence together without the word ” fuck ” making an unwarranted appearance. Fortunately my wee grandson was very tired and slept throughout the journey otherwise words would have been had.
It ain’t smart , it ain’t clever and for sure ,it ain’t really necessary when typing – though I have to hold my hand up for at least one expletive on this site.
@Petra 10.10am
I too am becoming uncomfortable with the overuse of swearing for it’d own sake
Most folk on this site used it previously for comedic effect or to make a point but unfortunately it’s being used conversationally and it’s not that I’m a snob or look down my nose at people who use language like this when they speak
I just don’t think you should write it
WOS is a great site and has done well in self policing behaviour but I think some folk are forgetting that others visit here and given WOS is the most read Independence site there is I would prefer not to give ammunition to the opposition for them to throw at us because no matter what they do doesn’t mean we should be the same
One man’s opinion
@ Joemcg says ”I see many businesses are losing money on Saturday due to the orangefest. Loads of cancellation from people fearing trouble. More pressure on GCC.”
Well we wont stop this from going ahead on Saturday this year but I reckon their plan was to apply to have this ‘orangefest’ every year from now on and who knows maybe one yearly ‘orangefest’ would escalate to many just as their OO walks have.
Politicians are being scrutinised at the moment. Time to pay more attention to the wee toon cooncilors who have been getting away with murder for decades now.
@ The Isolator, John King etc
Some great stories being told on here about the involvement of very elderly people (and very young) seeking Independence.
I just want to mention my elderly neighbour who’s 95 now. She’s supported the SNP from day one when it was seen to be (portrayed to be) a bit of a joke. She’s highly intelligent, extremely articulate and very witty but has visual problems, nearly totally blind now, and walks with a stick.
In the lead up to the Referendum I escorted her to meetings, geared to the elderly, where she gave some brilliant speeches interspersed with numerous historical facts (she’s a fabulous Scottish historian). On numerous occasions she got a standing ovation and at the end of one meeting apologised for not being able to help with canvassing any more! She’s totally inspirational as the others seem to be. I just hope they all live to to see us acquire our Independence.
In the Herald
Labour should brace it’s self to lose every constituency seat in Scotland at the next SG elections.
Says an labour insider!
Only list MSP’s. I rather like that!
To change the subject I am intrigued at the popularity of King Billy in some parts of Scotland.
The little matter of the massacre of Glencoe is as nothing compared to the destruction of the Scottish economy when King Billy effectively destroyed the Darien Scheme. Orange anyone?
@Famous 15
Not sure who you’re replying to, but if it’s me, for a start, I’d sue the MSM for defamation/slander every time they print or repeat an untruth about the SNP. That also goes for SPAds, MPs, Lords or political commentators.
Seriously I have not spent sixty years advocating a cause which is now within our grasp and to just stand by to see it being dashed by fools who are too frightened to rock the boat in case it portrays them in a bad light.
See I can write bollocks as well.
The good thing about the petition on the OO march is it brings the issue out into the open for discussion.
Too long accepted, and sometimes encouraged by politicians. People having their impute.
Unfortunately, this ‘Orangefest’ nonsense presents us with a bit of a Catch-22 – if we attempt to take these people on via counter-demos OR peaceful protest, they lash out at whoever’s nearest all the same, and while that may create martyrs for the indy cause, it’s no use having martyrs if the MSM doesn’t acknowledge their existence.
Remember when a few of met Lindsay Jarrett at PQ? How much coverage did her Edinburgh Castle mission get? And that was, coincidentally, when the big march was happening the following day – her YES banner was photoshopped out of images, wasn’t it?
No – we can’t take these people on because they don’t ‘do’ meaningful debate, adult discussion. And we’re not very good at drunken thuggery.
These farcical marches and demonstrations of idiocy will only stop when the heid bummers in Police Scotland observe the duty of care they have for their own staff and/or the Glasgow Chamber of Commerce sees businesses voting with their feet.
No-one wants it to happen, but there will be trouble on Saturday – it’s the cops will have to sort it out, GCC employees who will have to clean up the mess on Sunday. Yes, it’s frustrating, and sometimes, when the blood is up, the prospect of getting a chance to take these people on face-to-face is very attractive. But it won’t achieve anything.
Let’s just stand back, use our resources to document what happens, and add to the bulging dossier of evidence against these posturing fools.
Just how deep do the OO have Glasgow councillors in their pockets. From someone from outside Glasgow, I cant understand how this hate filled organisation can be so easily allowed the Freedom of the City! as this is apparently what is happening. For years the Labour party in Scotland thrived from Irish catholic votes especially in Glasgow, these councillors now appear to be hell bent on political suicide.
@ Conor McEwen, Soames is another off-spring of the fruit of Churchill’s loins. None of them have ammounted to much. I think it was he who threatened Lady Di’ over the phone with an accident? and an Ex stated that having sex with Soames was like lying under a double wardrobe with the wee key still in it.
For those suffering a bit of frustration at the moment maybe a word of comfort and hope here
At the same time as Angus Robertson was embarrassing Cameron in the Commons over Refugees in the Mediterranean Nicola Sturgeon was undermining Cameron in Brussels by receiving a standing ovation by saying Scotland stands ready to take refugees in
We have some good strategists working for us and part of the plan is to make Cameron and Westminster look like exactly what they are (the big N word)
remember the “British” are not liked in Europe we are (The Scots) and Nicola Sturgeon is using that to good effect at the moment
We’re winning it’s just a wee bitty slower than hoped
And also we’ve still got the big joke that is the Myth Commission to blow apart except there’s a wee change coming
Watch the Daily Record
Orange Order has been known to get permission for a stroll along a new route and in subsequent year(s ) claim that it is a traditional event.
One way of having the whole lot of them jailed is for a football game to be staged in the vicinity or even just being shown on a nearby pub’s telly. Such is, the OBF !
To protect the innocent, when I feel the urge to type @®$€, or ƒü©k, or $h!†, and so on, that’s what I do. I never feel the need to type ©ün* though.
call me dave says:
In the Herald
Labour should brace it’s self to lose every constituency seat in Scotland at the next SG elections.
Says an labour insider!,
Only list MSP’s. I rather like that!
correct dave, the snp would get 70+ constituency seats if the vote on may 7th were repeated, but they would lose most of the 16 list msp’s they won in 2011.
if snp supporters voted green/solidarity/ssp in the list would wipe out the unionists altogether.
i think this is a possibility as the voters in scotland are politically aware and understand the system very well
Brilliant article as usual from Weegingerdug on ‘orangefest’.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
@ Jim McIntosh says ”Not sure who you’re replying to, but if it’s me, for a start, I’d sue the MSM for defamation/slander every time they print or repeat an untruth about the SNP. That also goes for SPAds, MPs, Lords or political commentators.
Seriously I have not spent sixty years advocating a cause which is now within our grasp and to just stand by to see it being dashed by fools who are too frightened to rock the boat in case it portrays them in a bad light. See I can write bollocks as well.”
I think it’s high time everyone started making official complaints to the appropriate authorities such as the Police, Press Complaints Commission, BBC, STV and so on.
Take the case of Carmichael. Someone from Wishaw reported him to the Police, he’s been reported to the Standards Commission and a legal case is being taken out against him now. There may be no positive outcome in relation to this but it will surely act as a deterrent for others.
Petitions are no doubt very helpful too but has anyone actually phoned GCC to complain about the OO?
Becoming pro-active in dealing with these issues, being a good role model alongside striving to enlighten others is the way forward IMO.
Any abuse merchants on our side need to use the heid. For starters remember who owns the media.
They love nothing more than highlighting the words and deeds of a few to paint the entire YES side as a thuggish mob.
It’s the votes of the middle class and the elderly that are needed for independence support to rise.
How is that going to be achieved if YES supporters are portrayed as a bunch of neds?
The case for more powers and influence for Scotland needs to be presented as positive and aspirational.
Winning the arguments, not resorting to personal abuse.
Even if folks do think the worst of certain individuals, they know in politics it might be better left unsaid, and certainly not worth putting up for the world to see.
@jackie G
“Frankie Boyle’s piece for the guardian today.
I dare you not to fall off your chair enjoy 🙂
link to t.co”
Boyle at his funniest.
However I think he has got it wrong.
In my view it is much worse than that.
Cameron is actually the good guy hear (read not as evil).
I think he is playing the little Dutch boy by holding back the much darker forces.
Yes, he is very clever, but as much of that cleverness, if not more, is exercised in keeping them in check.
Joan McAlpine on the BBC propaganda machine.
‘But this is not an issue for conspiracy theorists or hotheads. There is now a considerable body of academic and journalistic evidence that the BBC, like much other London-based media, views Scotland through a lens clouded with metropolitan ignorance.’
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
@Starlaw
I fear this is less a case of grubby brown envelopes and more fitting in with the rules of the square and compass.
One must roll up one’s sleeves, one’s self and often one’s trouser leg and do what one is told.
This is the great temple we have built.
Kneel.
Mathesons stance on OO walks from 2012! This may account for the 500 walks recorded last year in the Glasgow area and the forthcoming orangefest.
I wonder which Senior Councillor was selected to oversee the OO review?
Maybe high time Politicians and Councillors made transparent any affiliation they may have with such organisations.
‘’The leader of Glasgow City Council has told the Orange Order his city’s policy on actively reducing its numbers of parades was ‘wrong’ and that it will be revised now Labour is back in power.
Prior to the recent local council election, Gordon Matheson, leader of Glasgow City Council, told a hustings of Orange Order members that he would ‘hold his hands up’ and admit a groundbreaking approach to reducing marches in the city was flawed.
Councillor Matheson, whose Labour administration was returned last Friday with an large majority, said the city council should have done more to consult the Orange Order and he promised a senior councillor would oversee a review.’’
And … ‘’Recent figures show more Orange marches are held in Scotland each year than in Northern Ireland.’’
link to sconews.co.uk
Famous 15.
I don’t often swear on this site. I was and still am annoyed at the fawning over a lying unionist just because he is dead.
Have a trawl through WOS and look at my posts ref independence. I am for independence. I don’t care what your wife says. She sounds like a cunt.
Petra
“One of the ‘new visitors’ was going to be my young niece who’s been constantly harping on to read the posts on Wings”
Quite simply Petra, I just don’t believe this. Is your niece a nun or a child. Lives in Scotland and never heard swearing?
Please keep her away from social media.
Also, one thread does not make the entire site. I admit that this particular thread is a bit sweary and that is largely down to me. As I explained earlier, I don’t normally swear and this can be easily demonstrated with a quick search.
If you are to complain about swearing to anyone, do it to someone who swears more than I do. Stu Campbell.
I find you a bit sanctimonious if I’m honest.
And finally I have to profess admiration for Stu in relation to letting folks post shit(myself included), even those from the Dark Side.
I have been banned/blocked had my id nicked and used by many MSM comment boards for no reason other than being pro indy and the same can’t be said of this place.
Even Will Podmore gets to post here.
It is normal practice for most forums and site to prohibit the use of “unparliamentary” language. Most online newspapers have a built in list of prohibited words and warn you exclude these words if you want it posted.
The basic rule of any debating society is that when yu have to use such language you have already lost you argument. Rightly or wrongly, most people are turned off by it, yes despite public swearing being more and more commonplace. Either way: it is unnecessary and detracts from the argument.
The only place where such gutter language is the norm are Old Firm sites, where logic and facts are alien to their beloved sectarian myths.
Will the “educational” Orangefest oan the Skwerr, Saturday, feature the Williamites dressed as gay hunchbacks in curly wigs, on BLACK hoarses, as white hoarses from Arabia had not reached Europe at that time?
@tartanarse
It’s nice to be nice.
Rev might have to take the Lochgelly tawse out of the drawer.
Please remember the words of Archibald Tuttle..
‘We are all in it together’
I think I can see tartanares’s point. We’re squabbling over the use of the word cunt on here, whilst the unionist’s have utterly shafted our country and it’s people for centuries. We weren’t calling them unionist’s though, we were calling them our MP’s and we thought they were representing us: had our best interests at heart.
During the referendum, literally hundreds of thousands woke up to the realisation that there was a broad and deep and really quite startlingly ugly and vicious side to those who were against the proposition. They sunk to levels so low, so utterly despicable, that the plural ‘cunts’ doesn’t even convey the sheer depths of the mendacity at the core of their attack on those of us who favoured Independence.
During the GE campaign, once again we witnessed many of those same people with those same views lying through their teeth to maintain there positions. From all sides unionist: Smearing our FM, constantly inferring and overtly at times stating that those who supported SNP were fascists; the deliberate use of ‘nationalist’ party in news reports, the constant sneering attitudes not just from politicians of all shades, but from ignorant journalists and their twisted agendas.
And still, here we are, 56 MP’s and a resounding fuck off to the lot of them from half the electorate in Scotland. I think I can live with the terms ‘cunts’ to describe many of those who participated and are still blaming the SNP and by extension, those of us who vote/d for them.
I don’t think it is a ‘gutter’ term: used in its correct context. It’s an entirely fitting term for those sneaky, shameless bastards who think they know ‘what’s best for us’ and then cry ‘but why, why did this happen’…and go right on blaming the people, whom they have treated with utter contempt…thereby remaining locked in to their own little vicious circle jerk of hate.
But then what do I know…I was raised in the ‘gutter’. The use of this kind of language was part of my upbringing. And though ‘frowned upon’ by those who spoke proper, we all knew people: the kindest, the most polite, who could, in moments of sheer frustration utter: ya ‘cunt’. As a child, I loved that incongruity, before I knew the meaning of incongruous, and always thought it was funny.
Language is textured and nuanced, and sometimes the ‘tone’ is lost in the writing of it. I think I ‘feel’ where tartanarse is coming from though. And I feel, it’s no a bad place.
Great Frankie Boyle piece, Frankie uses bad language continually to great effect but his stuff is witty, intelligent, thought-provoking & fun, whereas Tartanarse is just juvenile & shite, that’s what makes all the difference. Tartanarse needs a boot up the arse!
@ tartanarse says Petra “One of the ‘new visitors’ was going to be my young niece who’s been constantly harping on to read the posts on Wings”
Quite simply Petra, I just don’t believe this. Is your niece a nun or a child. Lives in Scotland and never heard swearing?”
You don’t believe me? Why would I lie T A?
That’s right my niece is not a nun and she does live in Scotland. She’s a child who is growing up within a family of adults that don’t ever swear in front of their children (one of 26 nieces and nephews all in the same boat), nor do their neighbours or friends. Abnormal for Scotland? She may hear other children swear in school: I don’t know.
Her parents don’t permit access to social media sites however she’s heard me talk about Wings and was desperate to have a look at some of the posts. She’s obviously too young.
And by the way I wasn’t particularly targeting you. I just happened to notice that there were a number of posts that seemed to be repeating swear words over and over again.
And this is not just about her, my niece, at all. This site is Internationally renowned. Many people visit to access relevant information about what is happening in Scotland or even get a bit of a laugh. Nobody’s griping about the odd swear word on here. I just reckon that an ongoing analysis of the c**t word doesn’t quite make for scintillating reading. More than likely to be a bit off-putting. Just MY opinion of course.
I’m sorry..
Being saddled with this horseism is a step too far..
K1 I thank you. You have it.
Petra, you talk pish.
Stu Campbell swears more than I do and it’s his site. I suggest you fuck off elsewhere like the WI or something.
I haven’t seen you’re name here often. You turn up and start frothing and being indignant about language. It’s not against Stu’s rules. Don’t like it. Don’t read and certainly don’t let children read.
Very simple.
And finally folks, I’ve been using the moniker for 12 years.
I’ll let certain individuals decide for themselves whether or not their arse comments are original.
schrodingers cat at 11.25
Nope. The danger is that if all the SNP supporters vote Green or SSP on the list the SNP will loose many seats and possibly an overall majority.
What we hope for is that Labour supporters and LibDems who can’t bring themselves to vote SNP will vote Green or SSP.
@Schrodinger’s Cat
“correct dave, the snp would get 70+ constituency seats if the vote on may 7th were repeated, but they would lose most of the 16 list msp’s they won in 2011.
if snp supporters voted green/solidarity/ssp in the list would wipe out the unionists altogether.
i think this is a possibility as the voters in scotland are politically aware and understand the system very well”
I make it 68 or 69 constituency seats IF the SNP do as well as they did in the GE.
That is a big if.
There may be another perfect storm which produced the ‘impossible’ result in 2011 but it would be one with an entirely different make up of political weather conditions.
There may well not be such a storm.
Consider the following possible scenario
No Ed Miliband.
Yvette Cooper new Labour leader, honeymoon period, moves Labour left (reality or perception).
No Ed Miliband.
Ken MacIntosh new SLAB leader, honeymoon period, reasonable demeanor, safe pair of neurons, + greater SLAB autonomy (reality or perception).
No Ed Miliband.
No Clegg.
New LibDem leader, X, honeymoon period is most anti-Tory in living memory.
EU debate strongly polarises opinion on EU, no post indy EU ref. on offer.
Oil price still not recovered.
‘One nation state’, ‘Nazi’ jibes well established UMSM propaganda by then.
Smearing of Sturgeon, still a WIP by then but progressing nicely.
No indy ref2 option, conditional or not, on SNP manifesto.
Greens, SSP and Solidarity stand in every FPTP seat.
Get the picture?
However, in that kind of scenario, i.e. where the SNP is not going to win a majority, it becomes all the more important that a pro indy MSP total is obtained. Because this time a Lab/Libdem/Tory coalition to keep the SNP out of minority government would happen.
‘Allowing’ tactically SNP FPTP voting Greens and Lefties to vote for their party of choice on the list would help achieve this.
But
It would require about 40% or more of the SNP FPTP voters doing so to produce a healthy worthwhile cushion.
Below that, it would really be mainly a case of replacing SNP MSPs with roughly an equivalent number of Greens and Lefties.
SNP pain for no significant pro indy total gain.
i.e. the SNP would lose control for not much greater statistical liklihood of a pro indy MSP total majority.
And if a very small percentage only shifts for the list and its list effect is diluted over several smaller parties (unlikely if there is any kind of coordination), the total could even be slightly less than for SNP 1 & 2.
OTOH if a large percentage split their vote to maybe two smaller indy parties we are looking at an increase of 20 seats more, or thereabouuts, for pro indy MSP total, which should guarantee a sizeable pro-indy MSP majority.
It would also kill the ‘one party state’ line which I think the MSM will otherwise try to make an Achilles’ heel for the SNP and indeed would imbue any indyref2 with more authority in the eyes of the electorate.
Problems are we do not know how many are available to shift i.e. how many Greens and Lefties have voted SNP tactically.
Also, the left is problematic in that it is fractured.
Could I also point out that not all Greens are pro independence
Dave McEwan Hill says:
Could I also point out that not all Greens are pro independence
Robbing Harper was campaigning for the Bitters. Even some of the ones for Indy can be less than half hearted. Though, those recruited in the Yes campaign are bound to be more Indy. They are not all like Patrick Harvey.
I really like cunts, fucks and dickies – why do people use those words the way they do? Is it because they have one syllable, are easy to spell and say? Bums are quite nicely amusing as well.
If those who voted for the SNP, both for constituency and list, in 2011, have been content with the performance of the party in government at Hollyrood, the performance of the MP’s at Westminster, during the referendum campaign, and in in recent GE campaign, why should they NOT vote the same way again next year?
The target votes for ‘not the SNP’ pro-indy parties should be those who voted Lib-Dem, Labour and UKIP (?) in 2011, not the SNP.
Trying to vote tactically in the list will be fraught with problems, like local considerations, yet to be defined.
The SNP vote should not be targeted to switch, rather the ‘soft’ onions and the ‘proudScotbuts’ should be the target.
Jiss sayin’ like…
@Brian
“If those who voted for the SNP, both for constituency and list, in 2011, have been content with the performance of the party in government at Hollyrood, the performance of the MP’s at Westminster, during the referendum campaign, and in in recent GE campaign, why should they NOT vote the same way again next year?”
I’m not saying they should not continue to lend their vote to the SNP.
Re the Greens. Scotland is cited at environmental conferences around the World as an example of how to manage the move to renewables. Unreported by our UMSM but fact.
Re the Left. The SNP are seen as the only realistic hope of driving mainstream policy back to a socially empathetic position.
And I hope the Greens and Left rank and file, despite the envelope pushing rhetoric of their leaders (well that’s their job) recognise that.
One thing that could piss them off though, not saying it will, is perceived power greed by the SNP leadership.
“The target votes for ‘not the SNP’ pro-indy parties should be those who voted Lib-Dem, Labour and UKIP (?) in 2011, not the SNP.”
Yes of course. Why wouldn’t they be?
“Trying to vote tactically in the list will be fraught with problems, like local considerations, yet to be defined.”
Can’t agree with you there.
First of all, technically, voting for your first choice for the list instead of the party you have loaned your vote to for FPTP is actually less tactical.
Second, doing so is a very uncomplicated matter because being regionally based, there is no need to, for example, to identify who the second place candidate is you should lend your vote to to beat the one you don’t like, as is the case in FPTP Westminster constituencies, which is often problematic. No ‘wheels’, ouija boards or rabbit entrails required
“The SNP vote should not be targeted to switch, rather the ‘soft’ onions and the ‘proudScotbuts’ should be the target”
Again, Yes, those should, of course, be targeted by canvassing – as well. But, if there is a sizable percentage who would rather, if possible vote for a couple of smaller pro indy parties in the list, then statistically, that makes a lot of sense electorally.
e.g.1 If the SNP List vote in 2011 had instead been split between Greens and SSP, then instead of 72 in total pro indy MSPs there would have been 96 (out of 129).
e.g.2 If the SNP repeat their success of 2015 they will get, perhaps, 69 MSPs – an outright majority. But if they all still vote SNP on the list, they will get very few if any list MSPs. Their list votes will be worth virtually nothing electorally, whereas, for the same money we could have around 30 list MSPs of Green and Left persuasion as well.
e.g. 3 If the SNP FPTP support falls a bit short of a majority but still vote SNP on the list, we could end up losing government.
With a split list strategy of some kind it could fall as low as 40% or even a little less and still produce a pro indy majority.
An important by-product, especially if there is an indyref2, is that the effective potential of the ‘One party state’ jibe, which should not be underestimated, would be negated.
It all depends on whether the potential for such a split exists in the form of Green and Left support loaned to the SNP.
@David McEwan Hill
“Could I also point out that not all Greens are pro independence”
I have absolutely no doubt that that statement is true.
However, it is of no relevance to a list strategy.
The strategy only pertains to those Greens who have tactically voted SNP first and second in the past and who, unless otherwise advised, plan to do so in the future.
If you meant in regard to those Green MSPs who may be elected, then that would be a matter of some later concern but on the other hand, something one would hope would be avoided by their selection process.
I think I’ll just be voting SNP 1 & 2, the SNP is a broad church with independence as its object. Anybody who cannot embrace that movement & its aims, doesn’t deserve the second vote.
Fred says:
“I think I’ll just be voting SNP 1 & 2, the SNP is a broad church with independence as its object. Anybody who cannot embrace that movement & its aims, doesn’t deserve the second vote”.
I agree. I don’t take any chances and vote SNP first and second, as Independence is my main priority as Scottish Republican Socialist. Without it, nothing worth while can happen in Scotland – or England for that matter.
I could add I left the SSP because Independence was NOT their priority and there were too many unionist platforms so virulently opposed to Independence that they hamstrung the party. Once they have ratted, it is harder for them to derat on Independence. Anyway, the residual SSP is too consumed with hatred for Tommy Sheridan to be of any use to anyone.
Hi Chic.
I voted SNP/SNP in every election for Hollyrood – I didn’t ‘lend’ my vote.
Anecdotal (and electoral) evidence is that from 200* onwards, voters, who voted for Labour in the UK elections, were voting for the SNP in the 2007 and 2011 Hollyrood elections but returned to Labour for the 2010 UK election.
Were these voters lending their vote to the SNP for Hollyrood, or lending their vote to Labour for the UK election? What were they? Labour voters, or SNP voters? Has the Scottish electorate become too sophisticated for their own good, hence all the differing proposals for tactical voting next year?
As I typed, I don’t think it’s productive, in terms of the 2016 Hollyrood election, to suggest to SNP/SNP voters from 2010, that they should vote SNP/Green, or SNP/SSP, or SNP/Solidarity.
These voters should not be the target. The target should be to persuade disillusioned Labour and Lib-Dem voters to vote for a pro-indy party for the constituency vote and the same (or different pro-indy party) for the ‘list’ vote.
I don’t see any point in reducing the SNP’s 2011 share of the vote. We can’t assume that the SNP’s 50% result in the recent GE will be repeated, or improved upon next year.
Yes, things are gonna get interesting…
I typed “…SNP/SNP voters from 2010”.
That should have been, “…SNP/SNP voters from 2011”.
I see Craig Murray has got hung upon Scotland as a one party state.
That’s almost an impossibility because of our voting system. The problem is not with popularity but the other parties that traditionally sent their best candidates to Westminster. Now they see the accumulated result. To leave their list of carbon copy dopes in charge of the Scottish branch deserves all the contempt voters can dole out.
Will they acknowledge the problem and recognise the solution? If they do they can not regain the high ground for a generation. That’s how long new ability needs to mature.
He is also railing against a ‘lack of democracy’ in the SNP executive, manifest to behold at annual conference. Maybe I was out ordering a BTL sandwich and missed that bit. With over 100,000 membership the dead hand of micro control is impotent in the face of an assortment of dynamic skills, opposing attitudes, anarchists, rebels and new thinkers.
As for a General election, it is still impossible to have a one-party state when confronted by an array of Tories, Labour, and the flotsam and jetsam of Westminster, all of whom control the greater income of Caledonia.
On this issue, Murray is way off beam.
Grouse Beater commented on Moodievision: Alistair’s Lament.
“I see Craig Murray has got hung upon Scotland as a one party state.That’s almost an impossibility because of our voting system. The problem is not with popularity but the other parties that traditionally sent their best candidates to Westminster. Now they see the accumulated result. To leave their list of carbon copy dopes in charge of the Scottish branch deserves all the contempt voters can dole out…”
That was their best?
@Brian
“We can’t assume that the SNP’s 50% result in the recent GE will be repeated, or improved upon next year.”
Well that is rather the point.
BTW I am a member of the SNP. Joined the party as a junior member at the age of 16 in the 60s and have voted for them ever since.
@Chic McGregor
There are none so blind as those that cannot see.
@Tonal
“I could add I left the SSP because Independence was NOT their priority and there were too many unionist platforms so virulently opposed to Independence that they hamstrung the party.”
As you know, I completely share your concerns in that area.
Including a wariness for their propensity for entryism with a hidden agenda.
I agree too, and have already said, from a strategy point of view, there is the problem that the Left is fractured.
On that issue, after the takeover of Independence First by yet another example of Left wing entryism, I buried my disappointment and touted to K and L, unsuccessfully, that it should become a new Left Wing party which would at that time have had a chance of coalescing the then sizable disillusioned membership of both factions, the name itself acting as a discouragement for those of ‘Internationalist’ persuasion (How can you be an internationalist with no nations? Maybe internothingists would be a better word).
However, If I may make a similar point as I did to Dave re the Greens.
The strategy only pertains to those Lefties who have already tactically voted SNP first and second in the past and who, unless otherwise advised, plan to do so in the future.
i.e. Those at the very least relaxed about the idea of independence.
Like yourself, in fact.
So, while not at all surprised, for all the reasons stated, I am a bit disappointed in your position.
But at this juncture, I am not even prepared to earnestly advocate the strategy, even though it makes complete statistical sense.
Because there are unknowns.
It is unknown how many of those voting SNP FPTP and List are of Green or Left tendency but have loaned them their vote.
Of course they exist but it needs to be enough to make the List strategy worthwhile.
If there are numerically enough it is unknown how many of them would be persuaded by a relaxed SNP policy and a list strategy education program. We are still a long back on the AMS d’ Hondt learning curve compared to Europe, where voting your preferred party first and the one you would most like to have a coalition with second is quite normal.
Party tribalism blindness is a common phenomena, but the level now in the SNP, at least in on line support, has surprised and disappointed me.
So I am shelving the idea for the moment until and if some light might be shed on those unknowns and would, and have, recommended the same to others.
If I were a unionist, I would not have to await that knowledge.
I would already be doing my damndest to get the SNP to take a hard SNP 1&2 line. Use that to stir up as much resentment amongst the Greens and Left as possible, hopefully to ensure they stand as many candidates as they can in FPTP seats and split the indy movement as much as possible and then hammer the ‘one party state’ message for all it is worth.
I think I’ve said just about everything I want to say on this at the moment except to say:
It isn’t just a matter of having different icings on the cake so that the Mary Berrys of the MSM cannot then criticise it for lack of colour, important as that might be from a selling point of view, it is even more importantly about insurance.
If there is not at least a pro indy party majority in 2016, it is game over re indy.
And my naturally pessimistic (read, only too often realistic) view is that that is a distinct possibility.
Hi Chic. I still advocate 1 & 2 for the SNP, until Independence is well secured from saboteurs, spies and wreckers. If we at least get Independence in my lifetime I will die happy.
I know Brit againts are everywhere, but particularly so in the Brit left. We both experienced that in another organisation, where they wrecked everything. and then vanished. If the Brits fronts can’t control anything then they destroy it.
The Scottish National Party manifesto said, “we will oppose a referendum on membership of the EU.” They are still opposing it now. So much for their claim to support the will of the Scottish people: they don’t want the Scottish people to have a say, they don’t even want to know what the Scottish people want.