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Under rocks and slime

Posted on June 02, 2015 by

I had no time for the way that Charles Kennedy conducted himself in the referendum campaign and it would be hypocritical to pretend that I did.

But before that he was one of the main reasons I voted Lib Dem for over 20 years – a compassionate, principled man who took some difficult stands and left his party in a far healthier place, both politically and morally, than it occupies now.


He deserves better than this.














(We’ve left out the countless other tweets that merely used Kennedy’s death as an excuse for an attack on the SNP but didn’t actually blame them for it, like this one.)

We’re sure all the papers will be screaming their outrage tomorrow and demanding that the leaders of the Unionist parties these people support (or in some cases represent as elected officials) take action. Right?

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  1. 02 06 15 12:15

    Under rocks and slime | Politics Scotland | Sc...

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    A Sgian Dubh Sheathed Too Early | A Greater Stage

345 to “Under rocks and slime”

  1. One_Scot says:

    Please God if you can hear me, save us from this batshit union.

  2. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    Alex Salmond ?@AlexSalmond 2 hours ago

    Charles Kennedy was by far the most generous person I have ever met in politics. Sad loss of a great politician and, above all, a great man.

    Vile seperatists etc.

  3. Ross_shire lass says:

    I am actually struggling to not reply to these halfwits. I voted for Ian Blackford because CK was no longer representing my fellow constituents. He was ill, rarely turned up to vote and needed to walk away and regain his dignity. I actually had hoped that with the pressure off he would get help and my neighbours and I would get full time representation.

    Here we are though with those who have no clue about what happened here suggesting that we should have allowed the man a job for life lest he get upset and pass away.

    I have no joy that CK has passed and I feel genuinely sorry for his family. I will not, however, feel guilty for knowing that his time as a politician had passed and for voting against him.

  4. One_Scot says:

    Seriously, anyone who votes No in the next Independence referendum is not playing with a full deck.

  5. Darren Docherty says:

    SNP = BAD What next? I suppose they will be responsible for any trouble at this weeks Orange day in Glasgow?

  6. Brian MacLeod says:

    We’re all sorry to see him go like this. He was a well respected and liked man.
    If he had said one word in support of Scotland instead of following the party line, I would have voted for him.

  7. Peter says:

    I suspect that the MSM will report on the comments that SNP supporters have used to RESPOND to these vile tweets and will magically transform US into the ones making capital from a mans death.

    Charles did as many have said seem to have the ‘common touch’

    He went on the streets and met ‘real people’ rather than rely on stage managed media events. There was much to admire about him, even tho his politics and views during indyref were not to my taste.

    The sky interviewer speaking to Alex Salmond this morning was clearly trying to make a link between ‘the SNP TAKING his seat’ and his death , Alex handled her very well

    I have seen one particular twitter user this morning stating that we should not even have stood in his seat because it was known he was unwell and he should have been allowed to win unoppossed!

  8. Malcolm says:

    The only significant policy difference I ever had with Charles Kennedy was over independence. Other than that issue I always thought he had sound judgement.

    Please don’t rise to the brainless jibes of the extreme (and intellectually challenged) end of Unionism.

    We have lost a statesman today and I, for one, am sad he never graced the Holyrood chamber.

  9. Juteman says:

    Absolutely disgusting.
    Do these people have no shame?

  10. Grouse Beater says:

    On Kennedy and growing old and democracy – a brief history of time:

  11. Cath says:

    “I had no time for the way that Charles Kennedy conducted himself in the referendum ”

    I did actually. He was one of the few people I felt was genuinely a thoughtful unionist (as opposed to a politician who’s career relied on it) and who also distanced himself from Better Together, and stood up to them at one point, coming out against the way they were conducting the campaign (

    That’s why I think he’s a genuinely sad loss – he was one of the few who could have acted as an honest broker over the next few years. Michael Moore is/was probably another one but Kennedy had far more of a rapport with people.

  12. Paul Martin says:

    I expect Carmichael will be lined up to deliver the church euology, all part of his rehabilitation.

  13. JaceF says:

    What’s worse is that they don’t even know the cause of death before taking this bile to twitter.

  14. scotsbob says:

    I can not believe what I have read here. How can people use Kennedy’s sad and untimely death for an attack on the SNP? It is outrageous.

    I was a member of the Glasgow University debating club along with Charles, a really decent guy and I had a lot of time for him as a politician.

  15. Cath says:

    Also I agree with Malcolm. Ignore these sad wee people. The less publicity they get the better, for all concerned.

  16. Calgacus says:

    Oh just fuck off you unionist scum and take your lying pish with you.(sorry Rev. but just no taking any more shite.)

  17. Iain says:

    Some of the usual goons are twittering on about ‘inappropriate’ comments from Salmond. All I can see is a fulsome tribute reproduced on the Guardian. Anyone any idea what these comments are?

  18. Johnny says:

    Unionists, of course, being desperate to avoid any conversation about how their favoured media and political leaders did a hatchet job on him for opposing the Iraq War and cut down someone who was starting to win support for his party (and you do not have to pretend he didn’t have ‘demons’ to acknowledge that his stance had won him support).

  19. Andrew McLean says:

    I notice that every single comment so far in the Herald (66), is commenting with due respect, unlike the Scotsman 6 comments out of only 29, yes you guessed it SNP BAD,

  20. Iain says:

    Every stupid, thoughtless, vicious utterance from these people makes me more determined that we must be independent.

  21. Al-Stuart says:






  22. Helena Brown says:

    Sad that anyone dies at age 55, but I suspect his love affair with alcohol had more to do with his death than anything else. I feel very sad for his son, and those people commenting on Twitter should give some thought to that.
    Politics seldom are nice or decent, and I have no idea whether Charles Kennedy was decent or not. I did not like his politics but I did not know him.

  23. Shanchat says:

    These people are sick but if we’re blaming political parties for people’s deaths thet Torys had better have a look at themselves first.

  24. 45storm says:

    Death by tweeting?! sorry but they’ve taken ridiculousness too far

  25. Marcia says:

    I was shocked this morning when I read about Charlie’s passing.

    The copies of the tweets in the article does confirm there are more nutters out there than we had thought.

  26. H Scott says:

    Ming Campbell just now on BBC News channel about Charles Kennedy’s death:

    “He was a Highland gentleman – but he was never a nationalist”.

  27. No no no...Yes says:

    I had a great deal of respect for Charles Kennedy and he would be appalled at the outburst of hatred and bile done in his name.

    These screen grabs are shocking and the unionists claim it’s those who support independence that have issues!

    The Yes side lost the referendum and we accepted that defeat and moved on.

    Politics is a tough business and nobody likes defeat, but democracy showed that Scotland wanted 56 SNP MPs to represent them at Westminster. It really is time for the “SNP bad” brigade to move on, but can they, will they?

  28. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    I knew Charles at University where he was one of the best debaters in the world and I have always respected him throughout his career.

    I wrote to him during the referendum to ask him to support the Lib-Dems for Indy but sadly he supported the party line of a federalist system. He would have been a great asset in Holyrood.

    A true statesman and one of the best politicians of his generation.

    A very sad day – my condolences go out to his family.

  29. Pam McMahon says:

    Okay, he was a politician, a likeable guy who had some principles and was ousted BY HIS OWN PARTY when he really needed their support.

    I guess the SNP are to be blamed every time one of the ex MPs dies over the next 50 years for whatever reason, because none of them can face the fact that the electorate preferred someone else to represent it.

    Are they blaming anybody for Gladstone’s sad passing yet?

  30. K1 says:

    The true face of the ‘union’ reveals itself again, and not one of them will be pursued or monstered by the press for expressing these obnoxious views within hours of CK’s death.

    Truly disturbed people, a real insight into a mentality that sits at odds with any of the condolences issued from those who they attempt to slander and smear.

    Those who are employed as public servants including councillors and any others who work in public institutions, should rightly be dismissed for expressing such views. They have simply lost touch with reality and are allowing their hate and jealousy to mar the civil and respectful tone appropriate to this circumstance.

    To ‘use’ CK’s death in this manner is quite simply, sick.

    I want people like this to be removed from positions of influence and power within our country and communities, they are not fit to serve the people they represent.

  31. Marie clark says:

    My god, what utterly vile people. The poor man is hardly cold and they are blaming the SNP.

    I just said that to my husband this morning that this’ll be all the SNP’s fault. I can’t say that I’m surprised at these disgusting zoomers, just sad.

    I commented on the other thread about Charles Kennedy’s death and these trolls ought to consider the mans family. He has a child of 10 for god’s sake.

    Show some decency and common humanity please.

  32. david agnew says:

    Petty, petulant, pugnacious little hate filled pricks. I am still waiting for the idiots to figure that this is ultimately self defeating. This endless stream of verbal abuse is the reason they lost so badly. Maybe it is because they are such sore losers they feel they deserve a hate sink and we’re it.

  33. Graham MacQueen says:

    Such a sad state of affairs that their intelligence equates to this.

    My sincerest sympathies to the family of Mr Kennedy!

    It’s a pity the authors of such vile don’t have the decency to think past their own fears!

  34. Macart says:

    Dear God

    Just despicable.

    Can they not leave this nonsense aside for even a day to give the man due respects and his family and friends some peace and space to grieve.


  35. Lockie says:

    Always liked Charlie Kennedy, but went off him during the referendum, but wished him no harm, RIP Charlie & condolences to his family & friends.

  36. Don Macleod says:

    Stu – I normally do not give such vile comments the respect of any response. In this case however I do think that respect for Charles Kennedy calls for appropriate response.
    Sir Peter Nunn along with other vile remarks and comments, utterly disrepectful to the good man Charles Kennedy tweeted ”The SNP murdered Charles Kennedy” This goes beyond the pale for me and I’m sure many thousands of others. I suspect Nunn will be deleting that tweet. I don’t know how to copy it or whatever. I think that action should be taken against this libel against this man Nunn. Can you do anything?

  37. Mr MacBeth says:

    We’re sure all the papers will be screaming their outrage tomorrow and demanding that the leaders of the Unionist parties these people support (or in some cases represent as elected officials) take action. Right?


    Using Mr Kennedy’s death as a pretext to stick the boot into the SNP? People are disgusting.

  38. MajorBloodnok says:

    I saw on twitter that Gracie Samuels-Pleb fears that puir wee Dougie Alexander might be next.

    Any bets that Carmichael will milk this to try to retain his seat should it come to a by-election?

  39. Mark Yule says:

    Well said Cath, Charles was a federalist at heart and I believe he’d have been an asset (as he always was) to the people of Scotland, in an independent Scotland. His closing speech summed him up well, an independent spirit who put people before party. If only he’d not been ousted in 06, the last 5 years may have been under a different and fairer coalition.

  40. Aos says:


    That is all.

  41. Luigi says:

    H Scott says:

    2 June, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    Ming Campbell just now on BBC News channel about Charles Kennedy’s death:

    “He was a Highland gentleman – but he was never a nationalist”.

    Of course, Ming Campbell played no part in a plot to replace CK as LibDem leader. Those wicked rumours are just not true!

  42. proudscot says:

    While I disagreed with his anti-independence stance, I have always regarded him with a degree of admiration as someone who based his political beliefs on principle.

    However the vile nature of the posts quoted by RevStu virtually accusing “the SNP” of murdering Kennedy by opposing him politically at the General Election, takes the “SNP Bad” mantra to a new level of mindless hatred.

  43. Al-Stuart says:



    QUOTE: “Twitter troll Peter Nunn from Bristol faces jail after threatening to rape Labour MP Stella Creasy”


    “Peter Nunn told a court he thought the threats were a “really, really funny” joke.

    But a district judge disagreed, finding him guilty of sending messages over an electronic communication network that were grossly offensive, indecent or menacing at the end of a two-day trial. The 33-year-old, of Pinkers Mead, Emersons Green, could now face a spell behind bars. Nunn will be sentenced at the end of this month by the City of London Magistrates’ Court.

    Nunn claimed he repeatedly used the term “witches” to describe Ms Criado-Perez and Ms Creasy to “satirise” the concept of Twitter trolls.


    Last year John Nimmo, 25, and Isabella Sorley, 23, were sentenced to eight weeks and 12 weeks imprisonment respectively for sending menacing messages on social media. About time the sort of thing that Rev Stu has posted at the head of this page was actioned, and without delay.

  44. Desimond says:

    I missed the exact phrasing but Alex Salmond tore a strip off the Sky reporter interviewing him today regards Charles Kennedy. Whatever was slapped down, i just saw the interviewer subtitles on screen read “Im sorry, i didnt mean it to sound like that” which i assume was a leading or nasty question\remark.

    10 mins later and reporter from outside the kennedy house
    Sky Reporter “Police say no suspicious circumstances, which is often code for suicide”. Truly pitiful.

  45. Fireproofjim says:

    I have always liked Charles Kennedy.
    I am truly sad at his passing, like most Independence supporters, and I have never seen any of our side saying anything else.
    On the other hand I have never seen anything like the vile, almost gleeful, comments by the likes of “Sir” Peter Nunn, quoted above. These people have no sense of shame or decorum and are a disgrace to decent society.
    The sooner we are quit of them the better.

  46. Karmanaut says:

    This is really sad. I, like most people it seems, liked Charles Kennedy a lot.

    Horrible to see the Unionist hatemongers demeaning his death by desperately trying to wring some sort of bizarre and creepy political capital from it. They really have no shame.

  47. baronesssamedi says:

    Twitterer Peter Nunn has already been in jail fot trolling Stella Creasey MP so that’s the company these morons keep. Treat them with contempt etc

  48. Auld Rock says:

    I have just one simple question, who are the ‘VILE’ twitters now? I met Charlie once when I was on an exhibition stand at their Annual Conference and found him a decent bloke. His only fault was that he was a Unionist but let’s also not forget that Charlie was one of the few that led an impassioned debate against the illegal Iraq war and most of what he along with others predicted about Iraq have come to pass.

    Finally let’s show a bit of respect and think for a minute for his son who now is left without a father. Charlie RIP.

    Auld Rock

  49. H Scott says:

    Just googled ‘Sir Peter Nunn’ out of curiosity. It appears he doesn’t have a knighthood but he does have a criminal record for sending abusive tweets. Even got the jail.

  50. TamTheBam says:

    Complete lack of class in those tweets.

    If you haven’t anything good to say about someone that died only a few hours ago, then say nothing.

  51. John O says:

    I can’t believe they are trying to make political gain from the dead, oh wait a moment i can believe it they are lower than dog sh#t sorry for the vile vocab, but truth is truth they are not human.

  52. Petra says:


    Parliamentary standards commissioner, Kathryn Hudson, is taking the case forward / going to carry out an investigation.

  53. Big Jock says:

    I presume Police Scotland will be investigating these obhorent slurs on a political party and us who voted for them?

  54. A tragedy for any family to have someone die at the relatively young age of 55.

    I remember two other principled Scottish politicians, Robin Cook and John Smith who both died of Heart Disease in their 50`s.

  55. Lesley-Anne says:

    I was shocked to hear about Charles Kennedy today. 🙁

    Charles Kennedy was one of the very few politicians at Westminster that I truly had a great deal of time and respect for. I have never voted Lib Dem but to be fair if I had lived in Charles Kennedy constituency then he would have had a great chance of winning me over.

    I think he was shafted by his own party when he stood down as their leader at the very point in his life when he needed their help and support the most.

    As far as those moronic tweets go that is all I am willing to say about them, if I say any more I’ll probably get into trouble. 😉

  56. Fiona says:


    You are correct: they have no shame.

    We know this already. I expect nothing better from this minority of unionists. Nor any condemnation from the majority. But it must give that majority pause, in the same way as the latest post from WGD gives me pause about some whom I have made common cause with.

    Perhaps if unionists had their own outlets on the internet we would see the same kind of comment about their rabid element as is evident at WGD wrt to one of “ours”

  57. fred blogger says:

    no he doesn’t deserve that.
    can’t say i liked his politics, but he was principled in his beliefs.
    although his stance in the indyref left a lot to be desired.
    RIP charlie.

  58. G says:

    Seems like a lovely chap, that Peter Nunn

  59. Doug Morrison says:

    Yeah, a good man. Like Stu and many above I was long a Liberal and might be one in an Independent Scotland, if they rise, Lazarus-like from their current state. However, as things currently stand Independence is the first priority, at which point no doubt various groupings will emerge. Though I doubt there’ll ever be much of a Scottish Tory Party!

  60. Linda McFarlane says:

    I woke up this morning to my radio reporting the death of Charlie Kennedy.

    The news made me sad because Charlie was a man of his convictions. I didn’t agree with all of his convictions but I respected them, mainly because he argued for them from a point of reason.

    By the time I had my first coffee, listening to Radio Scotland, I remarked to my husband “I wonder how long will it take for them to start blaming the SNP”.

    Not long it seems.

    To all the SNP haters, Pouters, and Unionist at all costs tribe: STOP.

    Do you REALLY think Charlie Kennedy would approve of your “Blame Game”?

  61. Joemcg says:

    Divided country alright and it’s the other side who are causing most of it.

  62. jaketdog says:

    These twitter feeds, what are they meant to do?

    What are they?

    A demographic still reacting in blind panic and fear. Blinded by arrogance to see that what they wanted to represent is not what the voters wanted them to represent.

    The tail not happy that they no longer wag the dog?

    What they believed in has been rejected and they are terrified that everything they held as permanent may not be.

    Too gripped by fear to contemplate an alternative, a different way.

    Rejected by the voters who chose a different way, they react in disbelief brought about by arrogance, fear and embedded entitlement.

    The pain and shock of this causes them to blame somebody, anybody for their mistakes.

    The SNP are to blame in their eyes. Not their own complacency and dereliction of duty, not the electorate for thinking and choosing the SNP.

    The SNP are to blame for everything and anything is an effort to justify their defeat and to try to bring people back to them, to justify themselves that they were right all along.

    Nothing is beyond being used as a tool, not even a mans life or death. That cheapens the man they claim to be defending.

    How many of these people shouting so loudly actually knew the man?

    How many even know the circumstances of his death?

    Unless we learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. The electorate have learned this time and chose to do things differently The unionists do not appear to have done so yet.

    Its not easy to say “I was wrong”. But is unrealistic to reject the idea that you could ever be wrong!

    Charles Kennedy was more than a Politian. We are more than our job. He was a son and father a husband a friend and thousand more things beside these.

    I am sure He had a good side and a not so good side.

    As do we all

    I did not know the man,
    I never met him,
    I cannot judge him,
    I have no right.

    My thoughts are with those that did know the man.

    The real man

    Not what those in the press portray.

  63. ScottieDog says:

    Well put stu,
    I was a very firm lib dem supporter especially when Kennedy was in charge but started to walk away when Ming the merciless and cohorts shafted him.

    No real surprise about the tweets above, but they are allowed of course.

  64. Grizzle McPuss says:

    If folks are going to comment could you at least try and get some perspective.

    These examples, and I’m sure many many more are out there in Twitter, say so much about THESE individuals.

    (I’ve recently spent 2 days arguing online with @HistoryWoman and all her cabal and had many an example of mindless Indy supporter tweet comment presented to me)

    In this instance, using the death of a man, someone who many of us admired but did not agree with, to make a rather squalid and pathetic attack on the SNP & independence supporters is nothing short of woeful for them.

    They know only too well that Charles was beaten democratically at the ballot box. They also know, if they actually cared that much, that Charles had a fight for many years with alcohol. That demon always tends to leave its mark upon someone’s long-term health.

    (Though I’m not advocating that was the cause here)

    I’m sure Charles would have been one of the first to accept the slings & arrows of public / political life. He lost this one, but I’m damn sure he was planning his next (unfinished) political foray.

    But take a look on the Indy side if you want to justify balanced anger and tell me you don’t see the same mindless vitriol on many an issue (JESUS, just take a look at WGD’s latest)

    If anything, I take from this that there are indeed arseholes on all sides of the debate that just need treated with the contempt to which they scream out for. They don’t speak for us and they don’t speak for many of our honourable foes, eg Charles

    Any MSM that decides to try and make any capital from this sad affair against the SNP will I’m sure leave itself open to easy condemnation, which if anything will again do less good for their cause in the long-run than any harm to us.

  65. heedtracker says:

    Is any of this creep show surprising?

    Wildly enraged opposition to Scotland’s future as an independent nation state, has produced all kinds of strange characters.

    Rise above it all.

  66. orri says:

    The truly sad thing is that to an extent political defeat may in fact have contributed to his death. The problem with that is the assumption that you have to treat any candidate in poor health with kid gloves or not stand against them. In a democracy you hold elections and the presumption is that no one owns or entitled to own a seat as an MP. If anything there being less than the number of seats in the Commons and the whole fuss regarding where the SNP can sit should emphasise it.

    Then again if we were being nasty we could start a whole string of whataboutery starting with his rejection as LD party leader due to his personal problems with alcohol. A very scottish affliction which he seemed to have a handle on. Unlike being a two faced lying bastard which gets you support from the party.

    If it comes to it his “night of the long skean dhus” might have tipped us off that he felt he’d been stabbed in the back by the electorate. Or it might have been a clever way of referring to the “night of the long knives” which was a pivotal point in german history where the majority of Hitlers “allies” were assassinated to give him sole control. That little effort was made to challenge his use of that phrase tends to indicate people weren’t interested in pursuing the issue and were willing to let it rest. Or he was referring to to a show by Craig Ferguson as Bing Hitler.

  67. DerekM says:

    i am appalled and sick to my stomach after reading these scurrilous accusations ,these people have no shame or sense of morality, FFS the man has died show some respect you unionist scumbags,i hope you all burn in hell.

    I feel sorry for his family and i truly hope they do not read what these twitter morons have to say,shame on the lot of you,show some decency you bastards and stop using his name to score political points.

  68. G says:

    I always liked Charles Kennedy. He seemed like a thoroughly decent human being and was able to argue his case courteously and with wit.

  69. Grouse Beater says:

    It will never occur to the despicable Kennedy’s colleagues who also lost their seat to an SNP candidate are still alive.

  70. Yvonne Russell says:

    i am appalled at the suggestions that the SNP are somehow to blame for the untimely death of Charles Kennedy. If you strip everything away, a man who struggled with an alcohol problem, who was a father to a young son has died. He may have been a politician, but to his wee boy he was daddy and that should be uppermost in peoples’ minds, not using the death of Charles Kennedy to tear strips out of any political party or its supporters . To use his death for some sort of political gain is reprehensible. Is hat on earth has this country come to when people feel it is acceptable to do this? I offer my condolences to the family of Mr Kennedy, and especially to his young son.

  71. scott says:

    I am sad at the loss of this man who I voted for when he was first elected,had a few dealings with him and found him very helpful,the people blaming the SNP for his death are sick and Charlie would be the first to condemn them for their vile comments.
    RIP Charlie

  72. Col says:

    I didn`t think that people could sink so low as to try to make cheap political jibes from the death of one of our best politicians. It would seem that no event however tragic is off bounds to those British Nationalists who wish to smear the SNP or Scotland`s aspirations to run their country in the way we see fit.
    If the MSM think that protecting these people from scrutiny is working then they are wrong, many folk will see on sites like facebook their actions and be under no illusion who is dishing out the bile.

  73. bob sinclair says:

    I’m fairly confident that we could all write tomorrows Daily Mail headline for them. I’m guessing that there will be some abhorrent anti SNP slur included in it.

  74. Patrick Roden says:

    Very sad to hear about Charles Kennedy.

    If my memory serves me right, it was us ‘Cybernatz’ here on wings and other on-line outlets who were appealing to the libDems to help Charles after his Question Time performance and expressing concern about his health.

    I’m sure a number of commenters suggested that for his health’s sake, he perhaps shouldn’t stand in his seat at the general election.

    Do you have a backlog to the comments section at the time of his QT appearance Rev?

  75. Petra says:

    These vile people have no shame. Charles Kennedy hasn’t even been buried yet and one day his ten year old son may read some of these hellish articles / tweets. So much for caring for Charles.

    Any person of a sound mind, other than SNP supporters, will know that Kennedy had sadly to deal with his personal demons, a broken marriage and loss of his father in April, and that many of his Libdem colleagues had been extremely concerned about him for quite some time ….. long before the General Election.

    I also wonder if they have ever considered the passing of John Smith, David Kelly and Robin Cook and questioned what may have contributed to their deaths? One thing for sure was that it didn’t have anything to do with the SNP.

    On a positive note they, once again, only connect with individuals of low-life mentality and are doing their Better Together ‘Union’ no favours.

  76. Capella says:

    Charles Kennedy was a genuine politician and came across as a principled man. I didn’t agree with his Unionist stance and I’ve never trusted the Liberal Party. How much might he have achieved if he had stayed with a Social Democrat party?
    It’s a sad day.

    The reaction of those people is despicable.

  77. Haggis Hunter says:

    Our sympathies go out to Charles’s family.
    As for the SNP haters, does the SNP not stand against anyone in case they might pass away? Politics is Politics

  78. R-type Grunt says:

    In life I generally believe you fight fire with fire but I’m frankly speechless here.

    We really must get Scotland away from these creeps. Time is of the essence.

  79. Kevin Evans says:

    My thoughts are with his family at this time.

    He was a breed of politician that was very rare. Not many politicians have respect over many political parties and not many politicians have experience on the level he did that would be called apon by various different governments.

    In any political battle he was able to debate and stand on a podium along side many opponents and be able to fight his beliefs with fire and passion but at the same time walk off stage not making enemies but have respect from his opponents.


  80. Dr Jim says:

    These messages are exactly one of the reasons why Scotland has moved away further and inexorably towards Independence

    The immediate desire of Unionists to make political capital out of a mans death is the contemptible behaviour we have become used to

    Whether a good man or a bad man it makes no difference
    If you didn’t like him keep it shut,if you did, fine, speak, but we are all who we are and have friends and family who know us and who knew Mr Kennedy so why would you hurt folk just for the sake of it
    by making these contemptuous Tweets and political suggestions in an attempt to sleight an opponent (The SNP )

    It shows the particularly ugly face of what is protectionist bile from frightened people when they stoop to as low a level as can be found to justify themselves
    I would suggest to those same people, that those you try to impress with this putrid stench are much less gullible than you think and will see you for who and what you are

    I did not know Mr Kennedy so as to his character I cannot speak nor would I have the bad manners to inflict further upset on his family by making wild unsubstantiated commentary and guesses as to his passing

    Perhaps some of Mr Kennedys so called friends might keep their bloody big gubs shut
    As we say in Scotland If you can’t say something nice don’t say anything

  81. Fiona says:

    @ R-type Grunt

    I will confess I have been surprised by the venom and stupidity of some of the unionists who post or tweet. But I think we have to accept that some of them, at least, are also Scottish. So we cannot get away from them (though with any luck on independence some of them might choose to get away from Scotland)

    Scots do not have a monopoly on decency or reason or any other virtue. I trust that a majority of us do share political goals of increased social justice, but there are those who do not, and yet want independence.

    We will have tories and extreme right wing people in a post independence Scotland, just as we will have socialists and every other stripe of political opinion

    Do not let your horror at the extreme minority of unionists blind you to this reality. We are not establishing utopia: just an ordinary country in charge of its own affairs

  82. Robert Louis says:

    Ach, these people tweeting this nonsense, are just the insignificant wee jobbies of the unionist world, desperate for attention. Ignore.

  83. Donna Heddle says:

    Slightly OT but in light of earlier remarks…BBC have just announced that Alistair Carmichael will be investigated on three counts by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner.

  84. Robert Peffers says:

    @baronesssamedi says: 2 June, 2015 at 12:49 pm:

    Twitterer Peter Nunn has already been in jail fot trolling Stella Creasey MP so that’s the company these morons keep. Treat them with contempt etc”

    This Nunn guy is quite obviously a deeply disturbed and nasty person. His several marriages ended in divorce left his several children scattered in his wake. Divorce is always sad but when there are several such it indicates something is lacking in the person involved.

    In 1998 Nunn was named in a list of the biggest private financial donors to the Labour Party. In 2002, he was knighted.

    That says it all really and if anyone is stupid enough to imagine these sub-human apologies as human beings cannot sink any lower – forget it for I’m sure they can.

  85. Robert Llewellyn Tyler says:

    Mail Online comments:
    Victor Mc, Cricklewood -Spain
    Charles (rest his soul) is a metaphor for the sinking society we have created. I am not a Liberal voter but he was ousted by some half-wit wearing the SNP rosette on his bum who you will never hear from again and will claim monster expenses from you and me for a 20% attendance over 5 years.

  86. donald anderson says:

    I agree with the Rev’s comments. He transcended party politics and was very likable. Cannot say that for many in his party, especially the likes of Scott Tavish, plus many in the Unionist, cabal opportunist gravy train.

  87. Stoker says:

    Linda McFarlane wrote (@ 1.11pm):

    “To all the SNP haters, Pouters, and Unionist at all costs tribe: STOP. Do you REALLY think Charlie Kennedy would approve of your “Blame Game”?”

    And do you, Linda, think these halfwits truly care about Kennedy! His death is just another opportunity for them to give us all another fine display of their superior upbringing.

    Many excellent comments to this article above showing just how truly nasty we are, compared to those angelic Unionists, eh!

    I may not have liked Kennedy but i hope beyond hope that his family don’t get to see this vile crap using his name.

  88. Joemcg says:

    This begs the question where will this all end? Bloodshed? It certainly seems to be getting nastier every day.

  89. Big Jock says:

    So if Kennedy had been unseated by a Labour or Tory MP. Would this have been their fault? I suppose the SNP are responsible for his alcoholism as well!

    Words fail me there are no depths. If it was suicide and we are only speculating, then people need educated before opening their mouths. Depression is a psychological disorder which can only be treated by altering the mindset of the individual. External forces can trigger the negative reaction but are not the cause. The cause is lack of self worth. Hence the need for alcohol.

  90. Hobbit says:

    How Alex Salmond is being quoted now, from the Daily Mail:

    Alex Salmond said that Kennedy was ‘taken from us by an illness that he had that eventually defeated him’.

    He added: ‘Charles had an addiction – an alcohol problem. And that’s what unfortunately and tragically has consumed his political career and robbed us of an outstanding talent.

    ‘The House of Commons probably is the worst place in the world for somebody with an alcohol problem, particularly in the 1980s and 1990s when Charles went into the House of Commons. You are talking about being far, far away from home, many hundreds of miles from home, in convivial company, with easily available cheap alcohol.

    ‘It must be just about the worst place on the planet with Charles’ illness – and a sad illness which has taken him from us.’

    I don’t think anyone would seriously disagree with that assessment of things.

  91. Suzanne says:

    I’m ignoring all the madly-frothing Tweets attempting to blame the SNP.

    Charles Kennedy was a good man with a good and true heart. He was the only one who was against a coalition with the Tories and he was a man driven by passion, love of Scotland and the area he represented. He was one of the best PMs the UK never had. I’m sorry that he’s gone – his is a very sharp and painful loss to his friends, family, his community and to those among the wider and diverse political world who had a love and deep respect for him.

  92. Fiona says:


    I do not think there is much chance of bloodshed, really. The truly deranged are a small minority and these unionist warriors are not the stuff that martyrs are made of.

    They would dearly like to be able to say that indy folk are violent revolutinaries of the sort the establishment seek to scare the children with, traditionally. But we aren’t. And neither are they.

  93. John H. says:

    I was very sorry to hear about Charles Kennedy’s death. He seemed to be a nice man who genuinely liked people. Perhaps he shouldn’t have stood for election this time as it was obvious, and had been for some time, that he was very unwell.

    Politics is an arduous business and candidates need to be mentally as well as physically strong. Add to that the enormous size of his constituency and the toll on him must have been exhausting.

    If we had won the referendum (I think we did) he might have retired from politics and still be enjoying life with his family today. We will never know, but to use his death as a stick to beat the SNP with is truly beneath contempt.

  94. Al-Stuart says:

    Sorry Stu.,

    Have calmed down a bit now. It was the fact that so many of us here noticed “Sir” Peter Nunn was not a knight, but an imposter, and a jailed twitter troll of all things. Clearly he is deranged calling the entire SNP membership murderers. But we will leave that to the old bill to sort out with “Mr” Nunn. Hope he has is bags packed for another 18 week in prison for trolling vile abuse.

    By the way, just in case any of the Telegraph et. al., start repeating these obscene and distressing troll-bate twitters… please could someone let me know how the right wing press are keeping so very, very quite about the alleged culpability in the deaths of 60 disabled people at the hands of the Conservatives…

    Or is it okay for the Conservative led DWP to kill disabled people in today’s Britain? FACT.

    So if you are on Facebook or Twitter, maybes reply to the trolls with a discreet reference to the REAL and culpable Conservatives as witnessed by the suicide note on the above weblink above that PROVES the Conservatives killed the likes of Stephanie Bottrill.

    Good grief Stu., my blood is still boiling at those rancid, unforgiveable tweets that you located on that social media.

  95. Grouse Beater says:

    Fiona: I think we have to accept that some of them, at least, are also Scottish.

    No need to be pious.

    If you are going to state the obvious differentiate the worst from the best and don’t over-simplify as one lumpen group.

    There are disloyal Scots, disenfranchised Scots, immorally inculcated, and the plain degenerate. They can all be rescued except perhaps the last.

    PS: By no description can Scotland be called an ‘ordinary’ country.

  96. Stoker says:

    @ Donna Heddle (1.42pm).
    Thanks for that, hopefully good news but something tells me we are about to experience another white-washing-of-hands.

    In the words of the Scottish comedian, Karen Dunbar, “I smell shite”

    bob sinclair wrote:
    “I’m fairly confident that we could all write tomorrows Daily Mail headline for them. I’m guessing that there will be some abhorrent anti SNP slur included in it.”

    And if that happens, bob, every last one of us should be prepared to bombard “IPSO” with complaints and that goes for any rag found to be even hinting at blaming the SNP for his death.

    This is also where The National has to step up to the plate. When it does its piece on Kennedy and his life in politics it should also run a piece exposing these vile opportunists who are using Kennedy’s death for political gain.

    I hope one of our own stand up in Westminster and strongly condemn these vile cretins, name and shame them.

  97. Lesley-Anne says:

    For anyone who is intersted there is an on line book of condolence.

  98. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Sorry to hear of Charlie’s passing; he is gone far-too-soon.

    Already we have the Unionist trolls trying to suggest it was all the fault of the SNP. We must forgive them father, for they know not what they do.

    I get the impression these days: if the SNP government was to come up with a provable and sustainable system, whereby everyone in Scotland received £1 million per year ta free, and all taxes were abolished, led by Deputy Dug, the Unionist forces would be screaming: “SNP bad”.

    You can smell their fear. Criticising Wee Eck is just another example of this.

  99. Big Jock says:

    Stu I assume you or someone else has reported the tweets? These people are truly dangerous.

  100. 45 & Counting says:

    Charles Kennedy was a thoroughly decent, principled and genuine man who had the courage to stand up for what he believed in, even when it was extremely difficult and unpopular to do so. Even though I did not always agree with his views, especially on independence, there were many things I did agree with him on.

    I like many of us had a great deal of respect for the man regardless of the party he represented. He was one of an all too rare type of politician, one that a genuine respect for the electorate, and that is the kind of politician we need more of not less. Deepest sympathies go out to his family at this sad time.

    These vile lowlifes using the death of Charles Kennedy to try and score cheap political points against the SNP is one of the most loathsome, abhorrent and repugnant displays of political opportunism I have ever witnessed. Take a good look at yourself you callous, soulless creeps, where is your decency?

  101. The Rough Bounds. says:

    @Joemcg. 1.54 pm.

    ”Where will all this end? Bloodshed?”

    Yes Joe. Without a doubt.

  102. Eckle Fechan says:

    Sickened to the core, blood boiling.

    These brainless fucking half-wit comments are an absolute shocking disgrace to the memory of the man.

    Candidates for the C**t Club – new members welcome every day. They should put a shiny click-through feed on Twitter for them to sign up to.

    Although I recognise its usefuleness in giving a voice to repressed peoples around the World, generally I can’t abide Shitter and Facecloth. The Shittersphere in particular opens up a mindfield of wonder for future social psychology PhDs.

    Can you tell I’m ever so slightly riled today?

    Don’t get me started.

  103. Tom Kane says:

    This is an absolute tragedy. Menzies Campbell has no decency – a eulogy from the friend who took his job and ushered in the LibDem version of Tony Blair. I really regret that we have lost him. And I can only remember him disagreeing with Clegg, but saying he was dyed in the wool Liberal, and that he would leave this world as a Liberal. He managed to hang on to his not-Cleggy principles, not dis his leader, and leave this world a Liberal. Not many of them will be able to do that.

    Sad, sad, sad day.

  104. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Charles should have not been standing at the last election. He was visibly far too ill. He had been on tv just before the election and it was assumed that he was drunk. This was the long term effect of drink on the brain and there is no coming back from it. A sad end to any ones life.
    Let this be a warning to any one who bellies up to a bar. A good friend but a very bad master.
    Perhaps the SNP should introduce minimum pricing in all the Westminster bars.
    Thoughts to Charles and his family.

  105. Lesley-Anne says:

    As a wee update to my previous post I’d just like to add that I did enjoy Charlie’s appearances’s on HIGNFY. He showed that as a person he was not afraid to poke fun at himself. This above all else proved to me that he was head and shoulders above the vast majority of M.P.’s.

    Any M.P. who can go onto a show like that and poke fun at themselves ax he did deserves a lot of respect in my view. This actually showed he was human and not a political machine.

    R.I.P. Charlie. You will be sorely missed. Thanks for the good times you gave us all.

  106. iain macgillivray says:

    I always admired Charles Kennedy, he was a real human being.

    Twitter is for mad thumb merchants who’s thumb is inexplicably linked to their knee, by-passing their brain? if indeed the have any grey matter.

    Everyone is welcome to an opinion in a democracy (lol), but using this as an excuse to vent their hatred is frankly disgusting.

    They need to stop and think before social media farting on everyone else.

    RIP Charles Kennedy, who would probably be laughing at this lot.

  107. Bob Mack says:

    Blaming the SNP is a convenience.Mr Kennedy knew as well as any politician that you are here today and gone tomorrow,as Robin Day once remarked to John knott the then defence Secretary in Mrs Thatchers government.
    Mr Kennedy was an alcoholic,with all the incumbent health issues both physical and psychological that the condition brings.
    His untimely death is sad but no surprise.
    Would these tweets have gone out if Labour or the tories won his seat? I think not.
    Therein lies the measure of the people who sent this nonsense.They will even utilise the untimely passing of a decent man as a weapon against those they hate and apportion blame accordingly.
    This is a sure sign of visceral hatred, and I feel pity for them.They are probably beyond redemption.
    When you oppose the will of the people who elect you to office,you cannot expect to win. Sad,but true. May he find peace and harmony wherever he reposes.

  108. Petra says:

    Fiona says ”I do not think there is much chance of bloodshed, really. The truly deranged are a small minority and these unionist warriors are not the stuff that martyrs are made of.

    They would dearly like to be able to say that indy folk are violent revolutinaries of the sort the establishment seek to scare the children with, traditionally. But we aren’t. And neither are they.”

    In my opinion if they are allowed to continue to whip up hatred on-line against the SNP, and it’s escalating, it could lead to (further) bloodshed.

    Not necessarily by one of the wee cowards hiding behind a pseudonym but by someone (or a number of people) who is / are influenced by this manipulative fervour and feel justified in reckoning with violence against what they see as a malignant force (us).

    We’ve already heard of a number of close shaves such as the SNP office assistant who had to lock herself in her office when a baying mob of Orange Order hangers-on (big men) started howling verbal abuse at her, tried to kick the door in and so on. They only fled when they realised that the Police were on their way. And of course the case of the girl, SNP canvasser, who had to go to A & E to have her facial wounds attended to following an attack.

    Someone, somewhere has to take some form of action against this online vendetta, ASAP, before it leads to seriously dire consequences.

  109. Hobbit says:

    Further from Alex, saying that he felt that “Charles’s heart wasn’t in it”, in last year’s referendum, or Better Together:

  110. Onwards says:

    Salmond getting abuse on the Scotsman for remarking on Kennedy’s greater political passion for a pro-EU campaign, compared to the independence campaign where he publicly criticised the negative approach.

    Apparently you aren’t allowed to make any political tributes or observations when a politician dies. I suppose it would be disgraceful to mention Iraq too..

    Typical of the Britnat media to run with an anti-SNP rant, and ignore all the ridiculous ‘Blame the SNP’ abuse following his sad death.

  111. Big Jock says:

    No this is not a spoof folks. Glasgow council Yes city allowing and endorsing a minority of bigots to take over the city:

  112. Clootie says:

    I’m saddened that they lowered themselves to this on the very day Mr Kennedy died.

    The obviously did not hold him in that high a regard when they would use him to smear 50% of the Scottish population.

    A vile group including HQ staff and councillors. What will the LibDems do about this disgraceful blitz? They will do nothing and that sums up the party of “liberals”

  113. Helena Brown says:

    Fiona, I agree with every word you said. This has got to be stopped. It would seem that to those in charge as long as you are slagging of the SNP that is fine, they scream like stuck pigs if anyone from the pro independence side even makes the mildest of remarks. I do not know who watches Twitter but someone must take action. This letting the horrible Katie Hopkins with not even a rap across the knuckles allows worse to flourish.

  114. wingman 2020 says:

    Democide? Honestly?….. I think the whole twitter thing is highly amusing. No need to be outraged. These dysfunctional people are a minute percentage. They are extremists in thought. They are perverted in logic. They are bitter in defeat.

    The real death we are witnessing, and they are railing about, is the death of the Union. And the SNP cannot take the credit. The death of the Union is down to us all. Let’s ignore the death rattle of outraged tweeters.

  115. dramfineday says:

    Sincere condolences to Charles Kennedy’s wife, son, family and friends. I may not have agreed with him on some subjects but I did respect his views.

    Sincere bad cess to the morons using his death as an excuse to vent their bitter bile.

  116. Are these people for real? The SNP will no-doubt give a far more gracious, honest and dignified show of respect to this great politician than probably anyone of his own lot. I feel a sense of GENUINE sadness today, we’ve lost a remarkable man. I think if he had started his career today in politics, he would be batting for the big yellow team.

    RIP Charlie

  117. Cath says:

    “The truly sad thing is that to an extent political defeat may in fact have contributed to his death. The problem with that is the assumption that you have to treat any candidate in poor health with kid gloves or not stand against them.”

    No, the problem with that is much worse. It promotes a wrong-headed view of depression, alcoholism, suicide and mental illness generally that it’s down to a “weakness”. That because someone is struggling with mental health or addiction issues, that means they can’t cope with normal things others would be expected to cope with.

    That couldn’t be further from the truth, and the proof in that lies in the fact so many extremely successful people suffer from such issues.

    These things are just that: illnesses. Of course external things can make them worse, or not help them – as many things, including stress, can do for physical illnesses. But to suggest treating anyone with a history of depression, or alcoholism or whatever with “kid gloves” is to retreat right back to exactly the kind of prejudice people with MH issues have been fighting for decades.

  118. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Robert Peffers.

    There must be two Peter Nunns. The tweeter would have been 17 in 1998, according to the link given further up. It also says,

    The part-time delivery driver used a number of Twitter accounts to retweet sinister posts and send a series of menacing messages directly to the MP.

  119. The Knome! says:

    The people making these comments are sick.
    The man has died, as do many others (if you look at Glasgow Stats), in what should be the prime of their life.

    And all they can do is spout about the SNP? seriously? Show some fucking respect to him and his family in this time!

  120. rongorongo says:

    However politically culpable, well-remunerated and comfortably pensioned MPs may be, the experience of losing one’s seat and job at the hustings must be a pretty brutal one for anybody: the situation is very public and the lack of votes from pissed off constituents is often very personal.

    For somebody of a fragile mental state of mind – such as an alcoholic – things can only be a lot worse. I wonder if ex-MPs are given access to counseling?

  121. Kennedy says:


    Just Wow.

  122. Iain More says:

    God get us out of the Union FFS. I can barely tolerate the nauseating drivel that was vomiting out of the screen during what passed for news in the UK.

    I have no time for anybody that stood shoulder to shoulder with neo fascists in the Referendum on the No side to run Scotland down. I include Kennedy in that villains gallery.

    It is but a month ago that Kennedy descended into the gutter with his own nasty smear campaign against Mr Blackford during the GE.

    No there is/was nothing decent about chat room Charlie’s politics in my eyes. If he was such a paragon of human decency and virtue and whatever other guff the MSM is spewing out today then he wouldn’t have lost his seat. The electorate passed judgement on him in the end and they obviously didn’t share the view of the disgusting BBC.

    Let it no be forgotten either that it was his own Party that inserted the knife into his back when he was battling other personal demons. We see examples of such back stabbing excrement above.

    I will order my pine box because their political leaders will not smack them down in my life time if ever. Perhaps the “Night of the Long Sgian Dubhs!” will be a long time coming for the above scum.

  123. Valerie says:

    RIP Charles Kennedy

    Whatever your politics, you can behave with common basic decency to respect the dead. I am not surprised at the Twitter trolls, these people thrive within a bubble of bile, anger and hatred, and access every opportunity to spew it. I’m glad Rev has highlighted it though, because we should shine a bright light on this filth.

    The powers that be, Police etc. should be cracking down hard to demand reasonable behaviour on line, it would save a lot of time and money in the long run.

  124. Iain More says:

    You can take it from what I said earlier that I don’t share the MSM view that he walked on water anymore than I shared the past MSM view that John Smith walked on water and then turned it into wine.

  125. Richardinho says:

    The attitude of many unionists is sadly pretty typical of the weird asymmetry that exists in British society as to how Scottish nationalists are treated compared to anyone else.

    Alex Massie is a good example: He chooses to be offended by Salmond saying that he thought that Kennedy didn’t have his heart with the BT campaign, yet he says this: “In truth, Kennedy’s final years were a sad business as, beset by drink, he shambled into pitiable irrelevance… “. Why is that acceptable but what Salmond said isn’t?

    Peter Nunn may not be such a great example as he’s obviously crazy but I’ll use it anyway as he is a pretty common type. He presents himself as the type who isn’t afraid to say the unsayable, a fearless combatant at society’s supposed over-sensitivity, yet he splutters with outrage when he gets offended.

    You can’t cure these people, but you can recognise the symptoms of their sickness and inoculate oneself accordingly.

  126. Lesley-Anne says:

    First of all we have all the usual abuse being thrown our way by ignoramouses.

    Secondly we have GCC permitting Independece Square to be taken over on Saturday for around seven hours by the Orange Order.

    Well I think this is probably the best response I’ve seen for a long time to sectarianism of any description.

  127. dakk says:

    They really hate us so much they will even use a man’s tragic unrelated death to attack SNP

    I wonder if this is the kind of black hearted unionism which Alan Cochrane had in mind when he coined that phrase for himself.

    It certainly would qualify for that description I would think.


  128. Meindevon says:

    I did like Charles Kennedy and have voted Lib Dem in the past. It’s very sad news.

    It may have been said already, but I think that if anything affected his health re the GE, it was the fact that the Lib Dems went into coalition with the Tories against his wishes and that played a big part in their downfall. I’m sure that would have had a bigger affect on his health than the SNP.

    These comments above are despicable. They have no shame, but the worst of it is, if it was yes voters making similar comments….well, we all know what would be happening.

  129. boris says:

    Best counsel would be to wait until the results of the autopsy are published, before commenting apart from expressing sadness at Charlie’s death so early.

    The trolls are to be pitied since they are confusing their sadness with anger and allowing that to guide their comments which will only serve to add to the pain being felt at this time by those persons closest to Charlie.

  130. Iain MacKay says:

    Very sad to hear of Charles, really nice chap, very funny, politically astute and a worthy and respected political opponent.

    Having met him socially I can say all the above and other tributes paid to him are true. I wish his family and friends well.

    I have seen some today trying to make political points, even broad sheet papers trying to twist tributes, completely inappropriate on this of all days!

  131. when I heard the news this morning about Charles Kennedys death I thought i was being paranoid for thinking :”I wonder if the SNP will be blamed for this?”.

    How wrong I was…

  132. Gary says:

    I was wondering how long it’d take them. Sickening to use the man’s untimely death for political point scoring. Kennedy had been, for the most part, a principled politician.

    People forget it was his own colleagues who used his flaws against him and ousted him as party leader. Had they not done so they’d not be in the position they are now.

    He suffered the loss of his seat due to new leader Clegg entering a diabolical coalition with the Tories, which Kennedy was against. Of course the LibDems involvement in hyper nasty Better Together campaign didn’t help either. Had Kennedy ran the campaign we may have seen a more principled stance taken.

    He was under appreciated and under utilised. Those who stabbed him in the back, in life, are now his best friends in death.

    Aside from the Tweets in the article I note that they’ve been just as quick to start some ‘Salmond bashing’. Apparently Alex’s genuine words of condolence were somehow “crass” and have “created a storm”.

    An outpouring of two-faced mock indignation using a man’s untimely death for Nat bashing. Will this be used to try and get Carmichael off the hook? Could anyone sink so low??

  133. manandboy says:

    BBC propaganda war – no let up, even for Charles Kennedy RIP

    BBC Radio 5 Live at around 3.10pm had Lord Reid on, formerly Dr John Reid MP, Labour. Lord Reid praised Charles Kennedy in the way that only John Reid can, somewhat faintly and without conviction, but made no reference to Charles Kennedy’s illness.

    BBC then played an edited sound clip of Alex Salmond, part of a longer piece in which Alex paid his respects to Charles and his family and friends, but the clip featured, was Alex describing how the House of Commons was not a good place to be for an alcoholic MP on his own and very far from home.

    John Reid came back in then, and described Alex as “pontificating” about Charles Kennedy.

    This was Unionist – hate SNP – politics, dressed up as a tribute to Charles Kennedy.

    The BBC – pushing down standards of decency for the sake of the Union.

  134. Garrion says:

    Ach, these blorts are tweeting their way to irrelevance.

    They just have not twigged to the fact that, generally, Scots can now see through this garbage a mile off.

    Mebbe the thing they are forgetting is that a media outlet is nothing without an audience, and they seem to be doing their level best to divest themselves of that.

  135. Inbhir Anainn says:

    May Charles Kennedy rest in peace. Like the rest of us one of “Jock Tamson’s” bairns, enough said.

  136. Andy-B says:

    It’s verges on the edge of reality to somehow blame the SNP for the death of Charles Kennedy.

    I found Mr Kennedy to be a very likeable guy,and I sure he’ll be sorely missed.

  137. VikkingsDottir says:

    I would have never believed that some people could behave in such a way before the man is even cold. Some of these folk need help. They have neither manners nor morals. Whoever they are, they should show some respect for his family and go and see someone about themsleves.

  138. Lesley-Anne says:

    manandboy says:

    The BBC – pushing down standards of decency for the sake of the Union.

    Is that even physically possible any more for the BBC manandboy? 😀

  139. Jim McIntosh says:

    Idiocy, bitterness and the internet are a bad mix. Just report every one and hopefully 10% will have the sense to think twice before posting similar bile in future.

  140. sensibledave says:

    The comments highlighted in the tweets are of a type that is, sadly, increasingly normal these days. There are loonies and extremists everywhere and the likes of Twitter gives them a platform that they have never had before.

    However, they represent no one.

    They are not indicative of the views of any party and are certainly nothing to do with “unionism” or the debate regarding Independence.

    The death of Charles Kennedy is sad, just as it is for when anyone dies prematurely. We all know Mr Kennedy had issues and was clearly struggling to control them. How or why he died will be known soon and, doubtless, there will be all sorts of theories as to what may have contributed to his death.

    Regardless of who won his seat, it may well be that losing his seat, together with other events in his life, contributed to his early departure one way or another.

    However that does not mean that the SNP are “responsible”. You know that. I know that – and almost all other sane people know that – and no one with any sense would say otherwise.

    Please don’t use the tweets of a few loonies as evidence of anything other than reminding us all that there are loonies in the world.

  141. Famous15 says:

    Alex Massie has committed journalistic suicide by using the death of a well loved man to attack Alex Salmond. Charles Kennedy was criticised by some for not wholeheartedly supporting the Unionist cause but Alex Salmond defended him by saying that it was the badly run Better Together campaign that Charles disliked and not Unionism

    Charles Kennedy was never part of the smear and fear campaign but this decency did not make him a nationalist. Menzies Campbell need not have used the death of s good mam to emphasise this.

    Sometimes the well crafted humour of Charles Kennedy was too subtle for those not sharing his intellect.The night of the long sgian dhus was one such quip that sadly proves his understanding of his fellow man.

    Alex Massie should spend some time on reflecting the thoughts of good men; Charles Kennedy and Alex Salmond.

  142. tombee says:

    The authors of that diatribe are more to be pitied than scorned. Their intellect is challenged, and they are lacking to a great degree, in compassion.

    To use the unfortunate death of a good man to sling false allegations at an entire political organisation is demeaning only unto them.

    their hatred will eventually consume them, hopefully sooner, rather than later.

  143. Sunniva says:

    He endured so much personal suffering in this last year, on top of his health problems. His brother was paralysed in a fall during the indyref campaign. That was partly why we heard so little from him. Then his Dad (to whom he was close) died on the 5th April this year during his election campaign.

    A decent man. If it were not for his alcohol problems we would not have a Tory government right now. Because he would still be leader, and the Lib Dems in far better shape. He was opposed to the Iraq war, and to the coalition with the Tories. He would never have sanctioned it and was opposed to it.

  144. heedtracker says:

    O/Tish but regarding

    Its on BBC R4 now but Joshua Rozenberg in his Law In Action show pretty much destroys the above action against Carmichael at least on one of it’s two “legs.”

    Its an interesting listen with a n other legal Prof and they both agree that Carmicheal’s defence is that he’s going to defend on the grounds that he had leaked what he presumed was true, Sturgeon and the SNP did want a Tory win May 7.

    Fair enough its only the BBC propaganda machine in full attack mode but if Carmichael is going to defend himself on the basis that he presumed that his leak was true, why did he state the detail of leak was all lies in his letter to Sturgeon?

    More to the point, why does a BBC law dude and a law Professor both completely exclude and ignore Carmicheal’s own public admission of guilt in writing, on national BBC radio?

    UKOK establishment corruption on several levels displayed today.

    Can Carmichael wriggle out of his I am sorry for the leak “and that the details of that account were not correct”

  145. Luigi says:

    Gary says:
    2 June, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    An outpouring of two-faced mock indignation using a man’s untimely death for Nat bashing. Will this be used to try and get Carmichael off the hook?

    Almost certainly. Why do you think certain politicians (who really ought to know better) are already wading in? SNP bad, Nationalist bad, Alex Salmond bad! The MSM narrative will go something like this :

    “Those evil SNP supporters have already hounded Charles Kennedy to his death, and now look what they are doing to poor Alistair Carmichael”

    Brace yourselves.

  146. manandboy says:

    It is worth remembering that in the constituency of his family, Charles Kennedy’s illness took the form of a very destructive habit. His wife would have borne the brunt of it throughout the period of their 8 year marriage. Their son was born in 2005. They divorced in 2010. I imagine his former wife will take little comfort from the many fine words spoken about him in these days.

    I suspect we might be in for a downpour of hypocrisy.

  147. Stoker says:

    sensibledave wrote:

    “However that does not mean that the SNP are “responsible”. You know that. I know that – and almost all other sane people know that… Please don’t use the tweets of a few loonies as evidence of anything other than reminding us all that there are loonies in the world.”

    Did you read manandboys post @ 4.04pm?
    It’s not just the tweets “of a few loonies” though, is it.
    Mind you, i suppose you could place the BBC in the same category.
    And lets see what the Unionist rags carry tomorrow, eh!
    As well as their on-line sites, eh!

  148. Joemcg says:

    That orange order march, you would think the police should step in and stop it as there is a possible threat to the public as it’s pretty volatile politically in Scotland at the moment plus with this online abuse stoking the fires. What if someone gets hurt?

  149. shiregirl says:

    Let’s not get entangled in what a few backward thinking idiots think. Now is a time to pay respect and remember that he has left a wee boy behind and family and friends who loved him.

    I didn’t agree with his politics and Unionist perspective, however Charles Kennedy came over as a decent, intelligent and gifted politician. All who met him have stated he was generous and of very good character – he made me laugh with some of his quips on tv.

    My condolences to his family. And shame upon those gutless idiots listed above by the Rev who have used Kennedy’s death for their own end.

  150. Donj says:

    Apologies to any religious people here, but this anti-SNP stuff has gotten to the level of the sort of right wing anti-gay crap we are constantly hearing from fundamentalist Christians. Wait for it, “SNP to blame for unseasonable weather!” coming to a tabloid near you.

  151. sensibledave says:

    @ Stoker

    Again, please don’t tar every one with the same brush. John Reid speaks for himself – no one else.

    I heard the interview with Alex Salmond live this morning on BBC 5 Live. He was nothing but kind and generous about a man that he clearly respected and liked – whilst having different views on some things. Similarly I heard Nicola Sturgeon’s story about going to the cinema with Charles Kennedy in Australia, to see Trainspotting.

  152. Vicente Bimendi says:

    It’s a very sad day today with the loss of such a good guy, but what makes it worse is the condemnation of Alex Salmond as if it was his fault. Condemnation from the lowest of the lowest who are so ignorant of the true facts.

  153. Ian Sanderson says:

    Unionist parties… comment…?

    Aye right…

  154. McV says:

    Just wanted to add, the Labour councillor blocked me soon afterwards, labelling me “another nasty cybernat”.

    I was asked by Gracie Samuels to agree that losing his seat to the SNP contributed to his death. All I said in reply was that I would not be speculating on how, or what would have been the contributing factors of Mr. Kennedy’s death, since I was not qualified to, and I was pretty sure that neither was she.

    It’s been a sad day all round. I’ve no opinion of Charles Kennedy as I never met the man, but I liked that he spoke out against the Iraq War and that commanded my respect.

    The other sad thing is that rather than enter into debate with an opponent about the merits of laying the blame for a man’s passing squarely on the very existence of opposition parties, Labour politicians and activists are happy to fill themselves with hatred.

    Of course she may have just not felt like accepting my point of view, and rather than admit she may have been a bit Hopkinsesque, she went for the “Nasty Cybernat!” & Block option.

  155. hd says:

    Random twitter arsehoiles reflects view of Nation:

    You’re being no better than Michelle Mone here Stu.

  156. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Random twitter arsehoiles reflects view of Nation:

    You’re being no better than Michelle Mone here Stu.”

    Oh piss off. Where did I say anything reflected the view of a nation?

  157. John H. says:

    Joemcg 4.53pm.

    I have a friend who lives in High Street in the centre of Glasgow. She says that last year the O/O were allowed to stage marches through the city centre almost every weekend.

    The noise from the bands was bad enough, but the real danger came from the drunken followers who made life difficult for anyone they happened to meet, including the elderly.

    Rumour has it that these marches were part of the deal that the Labour run council made with the O/O to obtain their votes for the last council elections. Though I don’t know if this was actually the case.

    Needless to say, my elderly friend stays at home whenever there is a march.

  158. Joemcg says:

    John H. Well I’m certain it’s in Police Scotland’s remit if there is a threat to public safety then any march or demonstration can be stopped so why don’t they do it? Can we sue them if someone gets hurt?

  159. stewart fae stoney says:

    What planet are these people on, how on earth can the SNP be responsible for his death, he has had a well known drink problem from well before the SNPs’ recent rise, that was the reason he lost his Lib leaders position many moons ago and it just got steadily worse. Even before the election he appeared on question time pished and not the same sharp and articulate person as previous. I liked the man he spoke sense except for his pro union referendum opinions

  160. Onwards says:

    It wasn’t just the Lib-Dem position on tuition fees that discredited the party. It was their long standing position on ‘home rule’ that was conveniently forgotten about when entering a coalition deal with the Tories.

    Petition against BigotFest.

  161. Flower of Scotland says:

    One down ( Blatter )

    One to go ( Carmichael )

  162. Stoker says:

    OT: Someone asked on WOS just the other day , who will go first,
    Carbuncle or Blatter?

    That has now been answered – Blatter to stand down.

    Meanwhile, Sally Carbuncle will be dragged kicking and screaming.

  163. Joemcg says:

    That orange fest looks a scream. Hope there are no saltires within a 10 mile radius in the centre of Glasgow on Saturday.

  164. heedtracker says:

    If you voted YES, well one more UKOK ligger does not like it one bit if you say anything, so be quiet, says one more very malice dripping hard line right wing git on Salmond today-

    “He cannot resist inserting the independence cause into everything and everything. No subject is too small it cannot be used as a sharp dividing line. No moment can pass unseized. Nor, it is clear, is the too-soon-death of a political opponent immune from such politicking.

    In that respect Salmond’s remarks this morning were entirely in character. They were all too revealing and, I suspect, will strike many folk as being as contemptible as they were typical. For a big man, Alex Salmond can be very small.”

    A very sad day made that bit worse by creepy Britnats and tory boy goons.

  165. Croompenstein says:

    @Patrick Roden –

    Do you have a backlog to the comments section at the time of his QT appearance Rev?

    Patrick this is the article that was up after his appearance on QT. I did a search for Kennedy on the page and you are right enough, most folk were voicing concern for Charles Kennedy.

  166. carjamtic says:

    No one lives free from suffering and loss,that’s doesn’t mean we have an easy time accepting them.

    We have devised a number of strategies to avoid experiencing the suffering,sometimes we use external means,such as chemicals (drugs/alcohol),or internal mechanisms,psychological defences (ignore it,use distraction like throw yourself into work or even blame someone else).

    This does not make the suffering/loss go away,it can only temporarily avoid it,the problem invariably festers and worsens.

    If you directly confront your suffering/loss,you will be in a better position to appreciate the depth and nature of the problem and even seek the assistance of others to remedy the cause.

    The message to all of us,if you need support/help with any issues,right now,please tell someone,don’t suffer alone,we are all human and need a shoulder from time to time.

    I never met Charles Kennedy,a decent man by all accounts,he earned the respect of the people of Scotland on all sides of the political debate and that is the truth,lets show him the respect he would have shown all of us.

  167. Iain More says:

    I am getting sick fed up with the Chat room Charlie was a decent sort of guff now. He voted to block the opening of the Official Secrets Act and effectively protect child molesters etc

    Decent my a!!! Respect for him – zero!

  168. David says:

    I have to take exception at Grizzle McPuss’ post at 1:12pm.

    Grizzle, stop doing the unionists’ work for them. Yes there are zoomers on both sides, but in my opinion the really nasty ones are split about 90% unionists, and 10% Yessers.

    Don’t say the sewer-dwellers are split 50-50, and that we are no better than them. That is a clear distortion of the truth.

    We have humour, they have only bitterness, which is simply not good enough.

  169. Ealasaid says:

    O/T Johann Lamont was being very respectful to Nicola Sturgeon in an interview on the BBC today.

    Johann Lamont: No quick fix for Scottish Labour.

  170. Grouse Beater says:


    I repeat:

    To splatter Blatter,
    Or recycle Carmichael?
    That is the question.

    Now answered. But Carmichael has days left to stand down, if that.

    I am reliably informed the SKY news announcer pronounced Kennedy’s constituency as “Ross and Cro Marty.”

  171. heedtracker says:

    Rancid The Guardian eulogy cant actually bring itself to say SNP out loud. Its better than lunatic blue tory fury maybe, blue tory spittle flecked rage, red tory faux ignorance…

    Red UKOK Graun says LibDEm’s party of protest slot’s probably gone now.

    “Other parties – nationalists, Greens and Ukip – now claim that territory. To renew and rebuild the vital place of liberalism in our politics will not be easy.

  172. HandandShrimp says:

    Saddened by Charles’ death. A good man. I disagreed with him on the referendum but agreed with him on many other things. The Lib Dems would have been in a better place today if he had remained leader or they had at least followed his counsel if leadership was too much for his health.

    The Tweets above are yet another example of why Twitter is dangerous in the hands of the incontinent. They don’t deserve a response.

  173. Mike says:

    Indeed a very sad day to lose one of the few politicians who stood for something and actually connected with people. Thoughts of course to his family and friends.

    As someone myself originally from ‘The Fort’, I know that he will be very much missed but certainly not forgotten by the town.

    I saw him on the high street while I was ‘home’ in April and he looked particularly frail and unwell back then.

    Quite how some can try and pitch this as the fault of the SNP is simply beyond comprehension. Charlie did a tremendous amount of good for politics and for Skye, Ross & Lochaber. He was indeed recognised for such but I feel that a lot of people simply started to sense that there is a new wind blowing across the political landscape of Scotland that Charlie never quite caught. Perhaps if he had stood as an independent or was more open to the benefits of independence, things may have been different.

    Anyway, it’s all by the by now and we say farewell to a good, decent and highly humorous man!

  174. orri says:

    Believing something to be the truth is no real defense in a defamation case. Something I’d have thought a lawyer would have known. More obviously not in a case where had the defendant had the chance to read the document allegedly supporting his belief he’d have known that it was far from proven.

    If anything they’ve simply agreed that the attack on Sturgeons integrity was against the electoral rules. However they’ve skilfully avoided the original complaint which by his own admission he’s guilt of. That he lied about his involvment in the leak.

    The same kind of avoiding blame by technicalities seems to have been attempted saying he wasn’t an MP at the time of the leak. He was still a government minister so one of the few still in post. Perhaps we’re supposed to forget that. Obviously to abuse his access to the memo he’d still have to be in post at least at the time the leak was instigated. Especially given he got a Spad to do it for him.

  175. carjamtic says:

    Iain More@6:35pm

    Sickens me that these b***stards hide behind this,hanging’s too good for these c**ts,no stone should be left unturned.

    Thanks for highlighting this,this is why we need WOS and Independance,all we ask is the truth.

  176. Mac an sealgair says:

    Is that the same Peter Nunn accusing people of murder and berating someone to their death? One sick hypocrit of many.

  177. orri says:

    I suspect there might not be any great enthusiasm among the Rangers supporters of Glasgow for Orange when their team was drubbed as badly by Motherwell.

  178. caledonia says:

    I am going to George Square with my Scotland flag on saturday and if i get a hiding so be it.

    At least it will be in the news and people will see what these bigots are like..

    I will never surrender my country to bigots but only one thing i need to know can i be charged with a breach for simply flying our flag

  179. Bidge says:

    They call us vile Nationalists and yet they spout this shite over a mans death. So is their arguement that once someone is elected in a democracy they get to stay in power till they die. That can be the only logical conclusion to this crap. Just incase the poor soul that gets voted out is too sensitive to accept their fate if not re-elected.

  180. heedtracker says:

    Ooops. Missed this one, rancid Graun does use the deceased to put their boot in to Salmond. Can teamGB media get any more tawdry than the nasty hypocrites here, probably.

    Kennedy passed away this morning, UKOK attack machine never quits.

  181. Grouse Beater says:

    Ran a glance over Alex Massie’s disastrous but probably deliberately so misreading of Salmond’s eulogy on Kennedy.

    When I last saw Massie on the end seat of BBC’s one-legged Question Time (please give it up to the elderly) I commentated here I found him self-regarding, vain, and oddly awkward in expression.

    The article penned for the lamentable Spectator is a good example of his leaden attempts at peg-legged spoken English construction.

    Above all it projects his failings onto another person.

    It signifies a person not in control of all their faculties.

    Had I been the rag’s editor I’d have spiked the piece, unless I was keen to see Massie hang himself in public, forced to resign.

  182. Take Independence says:

    What annoys me is a load of unionist using this decent man death as a ploy to make a political dig at the SNP a very sad day for the Human race.

  183. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Onwards –

    Thanks for link to the Orangefest petition. I wasn’t aware of it, or the ‘festival’ – it’s going like a train though. Just signed, and it’s almost 8,600 in just 9 hours:

  184. deewal says:

    I don’t have the words to say how sad I feel about this. He was the reason for the rise of the new Lib Dems and they betrayed and stabbed him in the back when he admitted that he was ill. I who suffer the same illness thought he was a very brave man to admit it because it is the first step to recovery. Instead they took his bravery as a weakness and rejected him when he needed they’re help to recover. That was the end of the Lib Dems he had built and it was hijacked by self seeking mercenary’s. Had he been the Leader in the 2010 Election there would have been no Coalition with the Tory’s.

  185. K1 says:

    O/T Newsshaft Daily

    Also thank you to the person who linked the petition against the orangefest. The petition is increasing at some rate, please share as far and wide as possible, now standing at close to 9,000 signatures in less than 10 hours. Let’s get these sectarian ‘events’ off our streets.

    Also noticed this tweet on Rev’s feed:

    I believe it’s from a piece in the Huffpost, but no link to said piece:

  186. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Signed, 300 more names added in the last 15 mins.

  187. Rock says:

    Charles Kennedy died because of being an alcoholic over a long period of time.

    Like so many other Scots before him, whom the Establishment don’t give a damn about.

    To blame his death on the SNP shows that there is no depth the unionists will not sink to and they haven’t reached the bottom yet.

    It seems that Kennedy was a decent politician, but apart from increasing the political profile of the opportunist Lib Dems, I don’t think he achieved anything for Scotland.

    Things would have been very much different if he had come out for independence.

    Condolences to his family. Any death is a sad thing, whether of a friend or an enemy.

  188. Tam Jardine says:

    Grouse Beater

    Insane piece by Alex Massie – says nothing about Alex Salmond and much about Alex Massie. I get the impression that if Alex Salmond pulled a family from a burning building Alex Massie would find a way to criticise him.

    I wonder if Alex Massie thought for one moment how I upsetting his piece could be for Alex Salmond. I can imagine they knew each other very well. I would be very upset if my eulogising of a friend or colleague was deliberately misinterpreted by some dickhead to attack me.

  189. Thepnr says:


    Here’s a link to the article in the HPost.

  190. Grouse Beater says:

    For those who prefer remarks on the death of Charles Kennedy respectful and decorous, not an attack on Salmond and the SNP:

  191. K1 says:

    Sorry Ian didn’t see your post..damn Wings time delays 🙂

  192. heedtracker says:

    Forever LibDem, their Highlands. Bell’s a thug and a creepy maudlin one too, shock.

  193. CRAIGthePICT says:

    The Britnats have hit a new low. I said before Salmond spoke that no matter what he said they would attack him. A truly sick bunch. Alex Massie, what a low-life! Michael Wilkinson and Simon Johnson in the Telegraph, utter disgrace. Just flaming the brainless Britnat online zealots. Using a mans death to throw their crap around is utterly shameless.

    They truly hate Scots that simply strive for a better nation for all. We need to get out of the sick union, and fast.

  194. K1 says:

    Thanks Thepnr.

  195. fletch49er says:

    [face palms repeatedly] then [bangs head off desk repeatedly] in disbelief

  196. K1 says:

    I’m hoping that petition re orangefest has the same effect as the petition to halt blowing up the red road flats as part of the commonwealth games opening ceremony. And kills it dead in its tracks.

    That Matheson needs his heid seen to…what is up wi these people!

  197. K1 says:

    The comments btl on that Huffpost piece are just awful Thepnr…they really ‘hate’ him. Today’s been one of those days when you just hing yer heid and despair. 🙁

  198. Brian Powell says:

    I don’t want to insult malicious old fishwives by comparing them to the journalists who started this.

  199. Rock says:

    Donna Heddle,

    “BBC have just announced that Alistair Carmichael will be investigated on three counts by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner.”

    Almost certainly the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner will find Carmichael mostly innocent on all three counts, with a slap on the wrist on a minor technical point.

    And the whitewash will cost the taxpayer another 1,400,000 pounds, 70 years’s annual pay for an unskilled worker in Scotland.

    Mob rule would probably provide better justice than the current rotten to the core system.

  200. katherine hamilton says:

    For his son.
    Remember by Christina Rossetti

    Remember me when I am gone away,
    Gone far away into the silent land,
    When you can no more hold me by the hand,
    Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.
    Remember me when no more day by day
    You tell me of our future that you’d planned:
    Only remember me; you understand
    It will be late to counsel then or pray.
    Yet if you should forget me for a while
    And afterwards remember, do not grieve:
    For if the darkness and corruption leave
    A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
    Better by far you should forget and smile
    Than that you should remember and be sad.

    God love you son.

    As for that lot, they are as nothing.

  201. fletch49er says:

    Just had a look at that Peter Nunn’s twitter account, what a sad sad man. He’s performed multi-twitter posting on the subject of today to whom? 376 followers! Ha, 10.7k tweet essentially to himself. It’s akin to him having a really frenzied wank!

  202. Dr Jim says:

    Alex Massie

    What does anybody really expect from this sneering

    Liberal Torycrat

    Which sneering unprincipled distortion would you like today boss ( In the voice of Golum )

  203. blehbleh says:

    Would be interested to know Mr Wings’ take on the ludicrous Alex Massie piece from earlier today, considering how warmly Wings has received him in the past.

  204. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @K1 (8.57) –

    ‘Today’s been one of those days when you just hing yer heid and despair.’

    Couldn’t agree more.

    I was up very early this morning and saw John King breaking the news here at 6.05. Then followed a steadily growing flow of tributes to CK, but all the while there was the feeling that it was just a matter of time before the nastiness started.

    I don’t know how people like AS (and, for that matter, Stu) put up with this never-ending bile. It’s okay for most of us BTL because we can choose to take some time-out, or, in extremis, just walk away. But AS, NS, Hosie, Roberston and many other prominent SNP folk have been putting up with this for years, sometimes decades.

    There’s no doubt the 56 will soon start getting the same treatment that WM bullies and snobs have always dished out to the ‘sweaties’, but all it will do is stiffen the resolve of decent Scottish citizens not to have their compatriots belittled. I’m not even an SNP member, but I can’t be the only one in the SSP/Greens who has developed a great admiration for the SNP and how it conducts itself – these nauseating attacks on the SNP, and the Scottish people more broadly, make us ever-more protective of the people we have in WM, and all the more determined that their time there will not be wasted.

    Scotland is changing whether these twisted bastards like it or not, and no amount of goading and/or dirty tricks is going to reverse the process.

  205. Grizzle McPuss says:

    @Dave 6:41pm

    First, read the definition of ‘balanced’:-



    – keeping or showing a balance; in good proportions.
    – taking everything into account; fairly judged or presented.

    synonyms: fair, equitable, just, unbiased, unprejudiced, objective, impartial, dispassionate, in proportion, that takes everything into account

    Now, if you read my original comment, you will see that my point is that when we start getting shirty about the Unionist comments, let’s keep it ‘balanced’ in respect of the arseholes who bring us down.

    I never implied that the complicity as being equal…50/50, I have merely pointed out that our hands are not clean.

    If you ever wandered into…

    …then you too would feel soiled.

    I know only too well what the other team play like, supported by their selective media. There are indeed many more of them than us, but I disagree with your tartan-tinted outlook. We do have a goodly amount of Neanderthals allegedly fighting along with the common cause.

    One of the things that I take great pride in is the large happiness and humour vibe of the Indy supporters. But equally, what gets under my skin is when I hear folks pontificate as if it is purely ‘the other lot that are bad’. We unfortunately have eejits too who bring the team down and really have no place by our sides.

    And if you wonder what I’m on about Dave, go seek the crap spouted over the internet about taking up arms, fighting the enemy (whoever they are) and all the vitriol that surrounds such bollocks.

    Not all sites are as fortunate to self-police as well as it is done here on WoS.

  206. Wuffing Dug says:

    Like many, I always liked Charles Kennedy, irrespective of his political views.

    Only fifty five as well, sad, and he has a son.

    Are there no depths these unionist, loyalist ghouls are not willing to plumb?

    Shouldn’t have asked that, we know the answer.

  207. Cadogan Enright says:

    Interesting – clearly Scottish lawyers are too wee, too stupid and don’t charge enough;

  208. Thepnr says:

    All day I’ve done my best to avoid commenting on the death of a man I never knew but did respect.

    Then tonight I have found myself reading all kinds of articles from those that should know better, trying to make political capital from the fact that Alex Salmond said in response to a direct question (from the BBC no less)

    “In terms of the independence referendum, I don’t think his heart was in the ‘Better Together’ campaign.”

    This innocuous comment despite having a basis in fact has been twisted by so many mainstream journalists into an attack on Alex Salmond that is makes me feel sick.

    As someone who has lost two close relatives in recent months I am disgusted that journalists see fit to use the death of a decent man in order to attack another.

    I really didn’t want to make this kind of comment on what is a very sad day for Charles Kennedys family and friends but if no one pulls up the MSM for their despicable behavior then we are lost.

    This lot are their own worst enemies, I for one will shed no tears for their demise.

  209. @Cadogan Enright

    We don’t all subscribe to facebook. can you archive the page for us faceless ones ta?

  210. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Let’s send a message to ‘your most loyal and humble servant’ John Reid, and all the other hypocrites who’ve been shedding crocodile tears over the death of Kennedy while working out how to use it for ‘the defence of the realm’ – this petition has already surpassed 11,000 signatures and is picking up pace all the time, with almost 1,500 in the past hour, many of which will have been generated via the links appearing in this thread.

    Keep it up.

  211. donald anderson says:

    He was a good man in bad company.

  212. gillie says:

    I will now always remember Charles Kennedy as the man who’s tragic death was used to attack and smear Alex Salmond by deranged unionist commentators.

    Whatever good Charles Kennedy did in life in death his memory has been tarnished.

    This is now a war of attrition.

  213. Cadogan Enright says:

    @cynicalHighlander 9.56 I was dragged screaming to Facebook – but am now a convert – its a really useful political tool

    here is your archive of why Scottish lawyers are too wee, too stupid and don’t charge enough;

  214. Dal Riata says:

    Yesterday, the Daily Mail displayed the following tweet as an example of ‘the cybernats hatred forcing Michelle Mone out of Scotland [sic]‘:

    LabRat: “Nothing more than a £shop Kate Hopkins. Who cares what the silly woman thinks.”

    Compare and contrast that ‘horrifically abusive and hateful’ (LOL!) tweet to those above…

    It’ll be interesting to see how that poisonous, hate-filled, Scottish-hating, filthy rag will act out the ugly Unionist’s disgrace of twisting Charles Kennedy’s untimely death into a Salmond accused, rage-against-the-SNP sick diatribe.

  215. jock mc X says:

    Philippa Whitford maiden speech.

  216. Dorothy Devine says:

    I have never read such twisted drivel by folk who are supposedly journalists.

    I comfort myself with the knowledge that the Massie chappie , though he pontificated loud and very long on Question Time from Aberdeen , earned no applause whatsoever.

    It really is time that these ego inflated ,self congratulatory prats in the media were brought to book.

  217. CameronB Brodie says:


    Anger at Alex Salmond’s ‘shameful’ Charles Kennedy comments hours after his death
    Alex Salmond has been accused of an “outrageous” attempt to claim Charles Kennedy did not support the United Kingdom only hours after the former Liberal Democrat leader’s death was announced.

    The former First Minister said he did not think Mr Kennedy’s “heart” was in the pro-UK Better Together referendum campaign and he would have been “reconciled” to an independent Scotland.

    But Sir Malcolm Bruce, the former Scottish Lib Dem president and a close friend of Mr Kennedy, said this was “fundamentally” untrue and attacked Mr Salmond for trying to claim the former Lib Dem leader as “one of his own” when he was unable to respond.

    Alex Salmond Defends Comments On Charles Kennedy’s ‘Heart Not In Campaign To Save United Kingdom’
    Journalist Alex Massie wrote: “For a big man, Alex Salmond can be very small. His remarks on Charles Kennedy’s death prove as much.”

  218. Stoker says:

    caledonia wrote:
    “I am going to George Square with my Scotland flag on saturday and if i get a hiding so be it. At least it will be in the news and people will see what these bigots are like..I will never surrender my country to bigots but only one thing i need to know can i be charged with a breach for simply flying our flag.”

    I admire your determined stance but do not think you should be attempting this task on your own. You have the correct attitude though and had we all been given far more notice to this bigotfest then we could have arranged a big peaceful silent protest.

    You can never tell what way the police will go on a situation such as this but one thing is for sure, nothing worth having was ever achieved easily.

    My guess is, if you are not attacked, you most certainly will be arrested “for your own safety” they will say, removed to one of Glasgow’s police stations, held for a certain length of time (your guess is as good as mine), then released without charge, probably after the event is over or with a warning not to go back to the area that day.

    All of that is dependent on whether you break the law or not and to get you on a “breach of the peace” you need only turn up or raise your voice for the police to arrest and charge you.

    It depends on the arresting officers and how they perceive, or embellish, your actions and don’t forget, this catchall charge of “a breach of the peace” can be used to cover a multitude of sins (or otherwise), and related sentences can, technically, range from a simple warning or small fine to life in prison.

    I don’t think it is worth you doing this on your own but this cancer really does need to be removed from our society.

    ALL sectarian organisations should be made illegal and shunned in Scotland. There can be no room for any form of state backed hatred in any progressive thinking society. It is Scotland’s shame.

  219. IvMoz says:

    The SNP Bad tweets are vile.

    The anti-AS bile is vile.

    @Iain More – I’m disappointed that on the day of the announcement of his death, you cannot find it within yourself to restrain yourself. There is no need to be nasty about Charlie Kennedy. IMO you’re as bad as the anti-SNP trolls.

    Agree or disagree with his policies, there is no doubt Charlie Kennedy was a decent man. I know this from personal experience.

    His death is sad.

    He was a talent.

  220. @Cadogan Enright

    Thank you for that.

    CK will be known as the last real Liberal in Scotland as the rest have shown themselves to be nothing but gravy train politicians in it for themselves. RIP.

  221. Petra says:

    @ katherine hamilton 9:15 pm

    Katherine I’ve just shed a few tears after reading the beautiful poem you posted and I’m thinking of the wee guy too. He lost his granny 2 years ago, his grandpa in April and now his dad.

    I was also reading about Charles Kennedy earlier and the strain that he had been under over the last few years. He had been caring for his aging parents and then his mother died in 2013. His father had been falling constantly throughout last year, was taken to hospital after one incident in March this year and died 4 weeks later.

    His brother was left paralysed after a fall last year and now requires 24 x 7 care.

    Close friends said that his attempts to hold his family together accounted for cancelled appointments and so on and wasn’t all down to drinking at all. For example he had been accused of being drunk on Question Time in March. They said that he had just had a phone call informing him that his father had been rushed to hospital and was in shock. When he read the comments later suggesting that he had been drunk he didn’t want to defend himself / discuss his familys business.

    Anyway he’s gone now, sad to say, and I just hope that his young son is constantly reminded, as he’s growing up, of the wonderful man that was his father.

  222. Richardinho says:

    Would that be the same Malcolm Bruce who thinks that it’s acceptable for politicians to lie?

  223. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood, 9.36 pm

    What a wonderful post. That was the first bit of “good feeling” I have had today, reading your post. Thank you.

    This whole rampant media/Twitter/BritNatAbuse bot and anti-SNP bile is really getting to us all. It’s poisonous.

    Thank goodness that WoS and the commentators on here give us back the will to carry on!

  224. tartanarse says:

    Scott Finlayson at 1.01pm

    You know I immediately thought of Smith and Cook as soon as I heard the news.

    I didn’t tweet my thoughts or post them here for fear of conspiracy loony responses.

    Glad you got there first!

  225. Petra says:

    Something of interest from Craig Murrays site re. the Orange Order.

  226. Stoker says:

    @ Cadogan Enright (10.14pm).

    Mmm, just as i thought would happen!

    I bet he/she is a Barrister or QC and i bet Carbuncle is not the one paying for it.

    Financed and supported by the London establishment.
    Good old British justice in action.

    The stench of excrement in those southerly gales is overwhelming.

  227. wull says:

    I had every respect for Charles Kennedy, whom I met once, and always liked and admired. He was loyal to his convictions, and always thoroughly Scottish in his character and in the way he held to his principles, with constant good humour. I very much regret his passing.

    If I had lived in his constituency I would have been much tempted to vote for him, albeit on a personal rather than a Party basis. In fact, he is the only non-SNP candidate the length and breadth of Scotland I can think of that I might well have voted for. As it is, I never had to consider the matter, since I never lived in his beautiful constituency.

    I watched his speech after he lost his seat, and was struck by his phrase concerning ‘the night of the long sgian dhus’. While nevertheless finding it difficult to understand what exactly he meant by it. The various possible references were obvious enough, including MacMillan’s ‘night of the long knives’, but none of them seemed quite appropriate, or fitting to the situation.

    Without being able to work it out, I remained convinced that he must have been thinking of something very specific. Granted the truth of the damaging effects of alcoholism, and that he did indeed suffer from that terrible disease and affliction, I never bought the idea that he had ceased to be the sharp and intelligent human being we had known for so long, gracing the political stage since his student days. So what did ‘the night of the long sgian dhus’ really mean? What was he trying to say to us by using such a phrase?

    In the end I have come to the conclusion – purely speculative, admittedly, and maybe wide of the mark – that it was a reference to the Massacre of Glencoe. Only this time it was the Massacre of the LibDems.

    In the original, the MacDonalds had welcomed the Campbells, and in return for this act of friendship the Campbells had set upon them. This time the LibDems had made friends with the Conservatives, only to be put to the sword by Cameron and his cohorts in return, after five years of apparent (but unreal) friendship.

    There might be more than one layer to this analogy, especially if it was indeed the not-so-honourable Ming, his sometime ‘friend’, who ousted Charles Kennedy from the LibDem leadership ten years ago. Old Comrade Ming’s ‘sgian dhu’ must indeed have left a deep, deep wound in Charles’ back.

    And it was that ousting, and the new LibDem leadership which emerged, that prepared the way for the LibDems’ disastrous friendship with the Tories. Ming’s perfectly timed ‘sgian dhu’ was the remote and long-term weapon that turned the LibDems round, ultimately allowing Cameron to use them as he wished. And use them to the full he did, before twisting that ‘long sgian dhu’ still further into the back not just of Charles Kennedy, but of the whole LibDem movement.

    If that analysis is correct, on the night of his defeat Charles was making the link between these two betrayals. In a wonderfully subtle way, moreover, by referring (however remotely) to one of the most well-known and infamous betrayals in Scottish history. It wasn’t just Liberalism in general that was the victim in both cases, but the very specific version of Liberalism to which Kennedy adhered. The version, that is, which he considered himself to represent: namely the Scottish Liberal tradition. A tradition to which, I suspect, not a few of our grandparents or great grandparents once belonged. Not all, of course, but some surely did …

    If the ‘sgian dhus’ of the night of 7 May 2015 were ‘long’ it was because they had a long history. The first was the one Ming Campbell wielded 10 years earlier against Charles Kennedy, which Charles still felt twisting in his back; and now they had become legion. The one had become many, and Cameron and his cohorts had wielded them against his erstwhile coalition partners to devastating effect.

    The tribute our polite and triumphant PM paid to the bruised and battered Nick Clegg. as the results came through, only added salt to the wound. By saying how much he felt for Nick, and thanking him with apparent sincerity for having made the coalition work these past five years, he was rubbing it in deep. The wounds that Charles Kennedy bore in his soul that night must have been made all the more bitter.

    Charles was betrayed by his own, and by those his own had taken unto themselves as their friends. Not by the SNP, who were his worthy and respected – and not dishonourable -opponents.

    Your opponents do not betray you.

    There is no deeper wound than betrayal by those whom you love, or by those whom you have welcomed, those to whom you have shown the hand of friendship, in good faith. For Charles Kennedy, the ‘night of the long sgian dhus’ was not the same thing as ‘the night of the long knives’; the analogy was peculiarly Scottish, and we may suppose that he had thought about it long and hard over the previous ten years before the moment arrived to use it.

    Long ago in Glencoe the MacDonalds thought that the Campbells had come that night in friendship, but their trust had proved utterly mistaken, with terrible consequences. Charles Kennedy already knew something about what such betrayal felt like on a personal level; now he was experiencing it more collectively as well.

    He wasn’t blaming the SNP in any way in his farewell speech to his erstwhile constituents, during the early hours of May 8th.

    Immediately, he was blaming the Conservatives, who had stuck their long sgian dhus into their LibDem partners nationally, throughout the UK. And, very specifically, into the Scottish part of it in their explicitly anti-Scottish campaign in England.

    The Conservatives were betraying the Union Charles Kenendy sincerely believed in, in order to win English votes for English seats in what they regarded as an essentially English election for what amounted to the parliament of England. Thereby undoing the very Union that Charles Kennedy realised had already been badly damaged by the Better Together campaign, in the foolish way it had conducted itself.

    More remotely, and more poignantly, he knew that these long sgian dhus of the present were directly connected to the earlier one that had entered his own back when he had been ousted as LibDem leader. That had been the beginning of the end of the kind of Liberalism he represented, and had always believed in. Now that kind of Liberalism – including its Federalist principle – had been put to the sword by its own supposed friends and allies.

    Betrayal all round. Bodies piled high. An unbearable sense of failure. The very heartlands decimated. And nowhere, it would seem, to go. Lesser men would not have felt it as deeply and keenly and personally as Charles Kennedy did. The voices of these lesser men may be heard on all the airwaves, but even in death he rises above them.

    Charles Kennedy was not a saint; he had his faults and failings, and his demons too, as do we all. But he was a fundamentally honest and decent man; a believer in the Union, yes, but every inch a Scot and with Scotland’s good always at heart. Anyone with an ounce of humanity, or just a grain of decency, no matter what his political leanings, must surely be saddened at his passing.

    Charles, I salute you, and all my sympathies go out to your family and many friends. May you rest in peace with the God who knew you, and to whom you always sought to be faithful. Thank you for everything.

  228. Macart says:

    @Ian Brotherhood 9.36

    You better believe it.

    Well said.

  229. Still Positive. says:

    Wull @ 10.59

    You have said what I think and feel so eloquently – well done.

    Alex Salmond alluded to much of what you say especially re his very dignified speech on losing his seat.

    Charles Kennedy was a politician who was liked by everyone across the political spectrum and Scotland is poorer by his loss.

    RIP Charles Kennedy.

    Thoughts and best wishes to his family, friends and particularly to his 10-year-old son Donald.

  230. Connor McEwen says:

    PETRA 10.48 TA FUR THAT.Sanity restored.
    Seen The National bit about pensioner £30,000 bet at 7/1 for £1/4 million return.Maybe the Rev. or The National should employ him to analyse opinion polls and media bias.
    Peter Mullen also had his heart broken by BEEB bias. That’s the media fur yi.

  231. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. the OO petition.

    12,892 have signed. Now help find 2,108

  232. jock mc X says:

    Natalie Mcgarry maiden speech.

  233. Thepnr says:


    Thanks for that post, there is no doubt that Charles Kennedy was a very intelligent and clever man.

    Whatever he meant by his speech on 8th May I’m absolutely sure it did not disrespect his opponents nor indeed the victor.

    I believe in fact that it was his own way of congratulating the victor and the SNP.

  234. Tackety Beets says:

    Aye , Wull some good thoughts there , sadly we may never know the true answer.

    I have been struck today by the comments from everyone especially reading the comments here.
    “He was a good egg”

    The tweets totally disgust and for me show no respect for the grieving family now having to wake up everyday onwards knowing CK will not be there. My heartfelt feeling are for young Donald. I truly hope he is too young and too engrossed with his new horrible situation to be aware of these disgusting tweets.

    GMS , usual tributes but was taken aback with Mundell who had to get ” British” into it.

    Massie , I struggle to understand HIM and I struggle to understand him.( Its as if he talks another language ….. from planet $hite)

    Talking of which, Carmichael is still up to his oxters in it .
    So a fancy London lawyer engaged, this adds to the plot of mystery. I’m thinking about our differing Law System and regulations etc . Ach well shows he knows he is in deep when he cannot rely in his fellow brothers. Aye we Scots are too stupid.

    Dear me only 25 mins left o this sad day.

    Hope tomorra brings us some good cheer.

  235. Dal Riata says:

    The anti-Scottish hate rag the Daily Mail was almost apoplectic today because yesterday’s Panorama about Nicola Sturgeon, unexpectedly, shone a somewhat positive light upon her. They really laid into Panorama for not showing that, yes, Nicola Sturgeon was indeed, according to their own laugh-out-loud headline, ‘The Most Dangerous Woman in Britain’.

    They were so upset they even ranted about it in their Comment section:

    “Panorama’s SNP puff”:

    Waah? Waah! Scream! Rant! Wail! It’s not fair!… “This Panorama will not trouble any journalistic awards – but it is on course for the Guinness Book of Records as the world’s longest party political broadcast”

    The Mail quoting journalistic rewards…? Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! ROFLMAO! Utter low-life scum. I hate those bastards.

  236. Paula Rose says:

    Yawn – In British politics, the Night of the Long Knives was a major Cabinet reshuffle that took place on 13 July 1962. Prime Minister Harold Macmillan dismissed seven members of his Cabinet, one-third of the total. The speed and scale of the reshuffle caused it to be associated by its critics with the 1934 Night of the Long Knives in Nazi Germany.

    That was Charles Kennedy’s allusion.

  237. Tackety Beets says:

    Petra @ 10.48 pm

    Thank you for imparting the info on CK .

    It helps shed a better explanation on ” What was the question again”

    I now appreciate his mind was understandably wandering off , probably worried sick for his dad.

  238. Joemcg says:

    Stoker-your post got me thinking. Is Scotland the only country in the world were you could get battered or lifted for brandishing the national flag? What a mental country we live in.

  239. Jimmy says:

    It wos a big SNP wot dun it……and ran away.

  240. Joemcg says:

    Paula-so was it a sly dig at us again. SNP=Nazis?

  241. Grizzle McPuss says:

    This from Twitter…

    “Charles Kennedy’s first (and favourite) record on Desert Island Discs was his Dad, Ian, playing the fiddle”

    It sums Charles up perfectly.

  242. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘Orangefest’ petition just hit 13,500 (at 12.12): It was only launched 13 hours ago, so it’s now averaging over 1,000 new signatures per hour. 4,000 have been added since 20.49 this evening.

    A great response, and kudos to Julie Philp for launching it – unlike the Carmichael Must Go campaign, this protest hasn’t been split between different petitions, so the impact should be even more noticeable. Let’s make the message loud and clear to GCC and the hapless Matheson:

  243. Joemcg says:

    So the SG have spent £12 million on tackling the sectarian problem here on the last 3 years but Glasgow are allowing a massive hate fest on a Saturday afternoon to take place!! WT actual FUCK!!??

  244. K1 says:

    jock mc X, thank you for posting the maiden speeches, please keep it up, I’m saving them all…and dishing them out to folks who are not getting a chance to see them. Much appreciated 🙂

  245. Morag says:

    Just watched Philippa’s maiden speech. Beyond impressive.

    The sheer calibre of the SNP contingent in Westminster is beyond dispute, regardless of the stupid jibes by journalists who don’t know them at all. As people in Scotland see the difference between their representatives now and the buggins’-turn place-holders so many of them were represented by before, it’s going to harden the SNP vote even more. Or so I fervently hope, anyway.

  246. CameronB Brodie says:

    Cadogan Enright
    After it was announced that Scotland had been extinguished in 1707, I contacted the Scottish Law Society to ask their opinion. Their reply was that I should visit my local library to do my own research.

    Spineless fuckers weren’t even prepared to defend their own existence.

  247. jock mc X says:

    Angela Crawley maiden speech.

  248. ScotsCanuck says:

    … first, my condolences to Charles Kennedy’s family on their loss. A man who entered politics with conviction and a passion to advance the wellbeing of his constituents in the primary and the U.K. in the broader picture. While I perceived him as a political adversary, in the context of a “Unionist”, I still admired his consensual approach to politics. For me he was pragmatic and not dogmatic, a very rare attribute in Westminster these days. He and those of his ilk are a dwindling cohort, who can rise above party and state for the record their true thoughts without fear of rebuke by peers. In a word, noble.

    Now, as to the excrement which passes for comment by various individuals listed above by Stuart, shame is quite obviously a stranger to you and patently always will be. Disgraceful does not even begin to cover it, to try to make political capital out of this poor mans demise by overtly blaming your political foe is below contempt …. to be frank, it is sick.

    I can only hope you come to regret these words, realise the malice you penned and publically recant.

    Simply shameful.

  249. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    At one time Charlie Kennedy was supposed to be leading the No campaign for the Lib-Dems with Darling for Labour.

    It never happened.

    His heart was just not in the Better Together campaign.

  250. John Moss says:

    Charles Kennedy died today.

    He died young at 55.

    He dedicated his life to persuading us that we should live under English rule. That was his life’s goal.

    It’s not mine.

    I have no time for hypocrisy or the laments being peddled by the media such as The Telegraph or eulogies by his former back-stabbing colleagues.

    He was a ("Tractor" - Ed) and there’s nothing decent about that. What Highlander would want to live their lives beholden to the permissions of a foreigner and try to persuade their family and friends to do likewise?

    I feel no sorrow for him. He cared not for me nor my family. His life is over and we can pray for his soul’s passage into Heaven.

    He did not believe in us nor or right to determine our future for ourselves. That is a fact. We are alive and we can. Let’s focus on that instead.

    Charles Kennedy is dead and we owe him nothing.

  251. Patrick Roden says:


    Thanks for finding that article mate.

  252. K1 says:

    2.25am and it’s had more than 500 signatures since IanB’s post at 12.21…now standing at 14,039…which is quite exceptional leading into the wee sma’ hours…

  253. john king says:

    Having looked at ALL the rather respectful in many cases and fulsome praise in others from people here, who in the main are opponents of Charles Kennedy’s beliefs,

    If he can attract such almost universal approval and respect from his political opponents and still lose his seat it just goes to show the depth of revulsion for the system and party he was a part of,

    Those people REALLY don’t get it, do they?
    tick tock

  254. Dorothy Devine says:

    I have just watched a wee bit of Al Jazeera and the Canadian government has apologised for the cultural genocide of the Native Americans.

    They apparently removed the young – much like the Aborigines – placed them in schools which indulged in every kind of abuse ,6,ooo wee ones dead ,the evidence buried. Last school closed in the 1990’s.

    Fortunately the white man , with forked tongue , did not succeed totally in this enterprise and the survivors look forward to the promised legislation and the enactment of that legislation.

    It kind of brought to mind no tartan , no Gaelic and the Highland clearances.

  255. ScotsRenewables says:

    You know nothing Jon Moss

  256. George says:

    So why are all these idiots blaming the SNP.We had miserable weather the past month is that the SNP to blame. My doctors sugary was running late and was that the SNPS fault,for god sake you idiotic people need a new life. Grow up.

  257. Taranaich says:

    @John Moss: He did not believe in us nor or right to determine our future for ourselves. That is a fact. We are alive and we can. Let’s focus on that instead.

    Charles Kennedy is dead and we owe him nothing.

    I think Rev got it right in his opening paragraph. Mr Kennedy may well have meant well, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He was a Federalist, a Devolutionist, and someone who clearly believed in giving Scotland more powers than Westminster was willing to grant. It’s all well and good having those principles, but they resulted in him being on the same side as the monsters of Westminster in actuality. It doesn’t matter if you believe in some magical fantasy Home Rule – the fact of the matter is the Tories are in charge, and they will be in charge for a very long time. Mr Kennedy may have shied away from Better Together, but he was still on their side.

    I feel a tremendous sadness at the loss of a life so young, a father, a husband, and a son, and in someone who rightly or wrongly stuck by his goals and his words. Even if he said and did things during the referendum campaign that tainted his good work prior to it, death is death. I wish he could have lived – maybe to see this independent Scotland we’re all fighting for, to help us out even though he advocated federalism over independence.

    But it is extremely unsettling to me that the man is barely cold and certain elements of the press are starting on the anti-SNP narrative almost at a knee-jerk. It worries me how many people still believe in that message. Half of the Scottish electorate didn’t vote for the SNP, after all: what will they make of the Telegraph’s anger at Mr Salmond’s entirely appropriate and thoughtful comments?

    Combine this with the Orangefest coming up in Glasgow this week, and I’m seriously worried about where it could all lead.

  258. Tom Platt says:

    I supported Libs and LibDems for about half a century. CK was IMO the best leader since Jo Grimond and should not have been hounded out of the leadership. I sent him an e-mail a few days later urging him to please take whatever time he felt that he needed to rest and, when he felt fully fit, to re-group . My disenchantment with LibDems probably started at this time. Even though I stood for election as local councillor at the time, I was privately unhappy with Ming’s leadership. CK’s problem could have been handled much more helpfully to CK. LibDems never recovered from his departure from the leadership and the Scottish LibDem MPs, in particular, surely need to concern themselves about how they allowed Clegg and his Orange Book Co. to bury our Scottish Home Rule policy and aspirations. The natural place for LibDems during IndyRef was with “Yes”. I suspect that CK was well aware of this. It is all very sad.

  259. heedtracker says:

    Those people REALLY don’t get it, do they?
    tick tock

    If you caught BBC r4 news thing with Naughty, Lamont and Dugdale this morning, they haven’t the faintest idea what’s going on. Usual horrible BBC emptiness of interview standards in 10 minutes. It may aswell have been dead air. Lamont free to waffle Dugdale even more, vote SLab, if you share SLab core values and education is the way to teamGB greatness.

    Scottish education looks like their main 2016 election stuff. Naughty suggests if a Labour big beast or two had moved to Holyrood but he doesn’t say which ones though. Dugdale says no, Holyrood full of SLabour talent.

    SLab Interviews with BBC r4 are terrible. shock

  260. gus1940 says:

    Was I alone in being sickened by the sight of Ming Campbell, the man who more than anybody else was responsible for knifing Charlie, paying tribute to the man who had more political ability and honesty in his little finger than his hypocritical self.

    Nobody has yet remarked on the fact that his erstwhile fan club in the MSM have not seen fit to ask Creepy Jim for a comment on Charlie’s tragic death.

    How the mighty Jim has fallen – yesterday’s man – given the fact that Lamont has opened her mouth for the first time since she gave her exclusive to The Record might mean that she has been released from Labour’s bunker to be replaced by a bound and gagged Murphycoyote.

  261. Fred says:

    @ Jock Mac X, many thanks for airing my new MP Natalie McGarry’s maiden speech excellent she is, Curran no more!

    Charlie Kennedy apparently entertained hopes of a peerage, everything has been said about his sad ending but thankfully we have been spared the nonsense of yet another recruit to the worlds second biggest unelected freak show.

    When the electorate say NO it means NO, not try again at the back door, clutching expenses form.

  262. Capella says:

    @ Dorothy Devine
    An excellent piece by George Gunn in Bella Caledonia about the uncanny resonance between the political repression of 1815 and today’s Tory revenants.

  263. Almannysbunnet says:

    After doing a quick review of today’s newspapers (online versions, nae money changed hands) it appears that “Blatter under investigation in the US” has trumped any negative news on AS and the SNP. The Smeligraph does manage it’s usual jibe though that’s to be expected.
    Who’d of thought that Blatter was useful for something.
    Tributes to Charles Kennedy will start in the house of commons today after PM questions around 12.30pm.

  264. JPJ2 says:

    Going by the 7 or 8 maiden SNP MP’s speeches I have seen at Westminster, the SNP have managed the remarkable feat of fielding Premier league teams at both parliaments.

    SLAB-zilch everywhere.

  265. Broch Landers says:

    CK’s real political legacy will be his death. It is crystallising Everything. And i feel great sorrow for his son.

  266. Charles Edward says:

    @Dorothy Devine

    You might like to read a poem called
    The Last Tribes
    By Michael Hartnett.

    I was shocked about Charles Kennedy, this will be a difficult time for his family.
    I understand a little about their situation through personal experience.
    The intense private issues which can make a person unwell or lead people into a battle with themselves can overwhelm.

    Austerity across this land is driving people into stress and illness. There are many who suffer.

    There have been successive governments who have ignored the correct way forward, this is why it’s changing in Scotland.

    We should be careful what we choose to celebrate and ask ourselves is this who we are.
    We should be respectful and mindful that George Square at the weekend may not be who we are at all.
    Something older has always been and is always present.

    Politicians will come and go, we need to understand fully who we truly are and what it is that our country needs.

  267. galamcennalath says:

    George says:
    “So why are all these idiots blaming the SNP.”

    The whole SNP Bad thing is all they have left. And, it’s all they’ve had for a few years now.

    They find it extremely difficult to formulate and present a positive case for their Union … yea, I can’t think of one either … so they have nothing left but moaning and shifting the blame. They are envious of what the SNP has achieved and jealous that their role in politics has been supplanted.

  268. Almannysbunnet says:

    Andy Coulson has been cleared of perjury in the Tommy Sheridan trial. If I understand it correctly the judge summed up by agreeing that Coulson lied under oath about phone hacking but that it didn’t affect the trial. I’m confused. I thought lying under oath was perjury end of.

  269. cearc says:

    Perjury redefined in law.

    Lord Burns adds “not every lie amounts to perjury”.

  270. Capella says:

    Seems lying under oath is not perjury if it has “little” relevance to the charge.

    So was Tommy Sheridan’s conviction for perjury false?

  271. schrodingers cat says:


    coulson perjury trial has collapsed

    The case against the former News of the World editor Andy Coulson has been thrown out.

    At the High Court in Edinburgh on Monday, Lord Burns upheld a defence submission that the 47-year-old had no case to answer, bringing to an end a major police inquiry and prosecution which cost millions of pounds.

    The Crown could have appealed against the judge’s decision.

    At the High Court in Edinburgh on Wednesday they said they have chosen not to appeal and reporting restrictions were lifted.

    Coulson, the former director of communications for David Cameron, had been charged with committing perjury during Tommy Sheridan’s trial at the High Court in Glasgow five years ago.

    He was accused of lying while under oath as he was questioned by Sheridan, the former socialist MSP who himself was on trial for perjury.

    Coulson had denied any knowledge of phone hacking at the News of the World until the paper’s Royal Editor Clive Goodman was arrested along with private investigator Glenn Mulcaire in 2006. Coulson resigned from the paper when Goodman was jailed in 2007.

    At the trial, three former News of the World journalists said Coulson had been aware phone hacking was going on when he was in charge at the tabloid.

    But after the Crown closed its case, the defence argued the prosecution had failed to meet the legal requirement for a perjury charge – that the alleged lying was relevant to Sheridan’s trial.

    They also submitted the Crown had failed to corroborate most of the allegations in the indictment.

    The Crown had argued the alleged perjury was relevant because Coulson had been asked his opinion about a video tape which was purported to show Sheridan admitting he had visited a swinger’s club in Manchester. His credibility was an issue the jury would have to consider.

    They argued Sheridan had been entitled to receive truthful answers from Coulson.

  272. Morag says:

    Peat Worrier pointed all this out a good few months ago. That Couldson’s lie was irrelevant to Sheridan’s conviction, end of.

    More people should listen to Peat Worrier.

  273. Fiona says:

    @ Capella

    Not on this reasoning. Sheridan’s perjury was relevant, so far as I can see

  274. schrodingers cat says:

    @ cearc
    Perjury redefined in law.
    Lord Burns adds “not every lie amounts to perjury”.

    maybe he was taking his lead from malcolm bruce, ie its now ok to lie cos all politicians do it….

    sad for sheridan, does this mean he can no longer clear his name?
    this looks like a stitch up

  275. Morag says:

    I don’t think it’s possible to clear your name if you’re actually guilty of what you were convicted of.

    I suppose it had to be tested in court, but considering Peat Worrier called it right, at the very start, you have to wonder why they bothered.

  276. Connor McEwen says:

    Wonder if Tommy Sheridan had done the same thing would Lord Burnsy [Simpsons] come to the same conclusion?
    One law for the right, and another for the left.

  277. Morag says:

    I didn’t realise that, about irrelevant lies not amounting to perjury. It makes sense though. If someone lies in court about what colour of pullover they were wearing, for some obscure reason, and the colour of their pullover has absolutely nothing to do with the case, then the law isn’t interested.

    All the other side can do is allege that an irrelevant lie shows the witness wasn’t telling the truth about everything so should not be believed about relevant matters either, but there’s a limit to how far that argument is going to get them.

  278. scott says:

    Re Charles Kennedy.
    Alex Salmond slammed by Massie what about this headline from the online Mail.

    Charles Kennedy was found dead by his secret lover: Body of former Lib Dem leader was discovered by best friend’s widow.
    I suppose its ok for the likes of that paper to say this,I wonder what Massie thinks about the story.

  279. Lochside says:

    The venomous and irrational attacks on the SNP in regard to Kennedy’s death are entirely predictable. As I have observed, on here, for years now, the msm and their poisoned pygmy scribes are paid State mouthpieces and won’t quit.

    I regret his premature and sad end, but never had any real respect for him as a politician. Charlie was a schmoozer and trougher, but a likeable one, to his peers, but to the electorate, just another clever provider of soundbites. What was most significant was that the only LIbdem in Scotland was notable by his complete absence in public tributes to the man.

    Of greater importance is the next attack on the ‘Yes’ supporting electorate by Glasgow Council’s promotion of the ‘Hatefest’ by the Orange Order on Saturday.

    How did this get slipped through by glove puppet Gordon ‘strangers in the night’ Mathieson?
    Why did Police ‘Scotland’ allow this sectarian circus to go ahead?
    Did they not get enough of a result on the 19th of September? Is more intimidation required?

    Glasgow Council are once again demonstrating that they are the disgraceful arm of SLAB/BT by allowing a racist and sectarian organisation of colonial cargo cult worshipping goons to be allowed to goosestep around our Freedom Square despoiling it with their 300 year old triumphalist bullshit.

    How is Stephen House and his coterie going to explain the public drunkenness, violence and universal ugliness that these throwbacks bring with them?

    Why in this century, is Scotland having this obscenity inflicted on us? Could you imagine them allowing a St. Patrick Fest?…..

    I have signed the petition that Ian Brotherhood linked, I suggest we all do so asap.

  280. heedtracker says:

    Coulson case is great news for Alistair Carmichael. Presumably you can now lie under oath but its up to the judge to decide whether or not your lies affect a jury decision. Oh wait, the Coulson judge excluded the jury.

    Coulson was PM Cameron press officer, shock:-(

    No wonder Carmichael wont quit.

  281. Almannysbunnet says:

    I would have thought that the relevance was that if Coulson lied under oath about one thing how could he be trusted in anything else he said. Mind you that’s logical but maybe not legal. The two don’t necessarily go hand in hand.

  282. Morag says:

    Almannysbunnet, I think they did try to make that point. The judge isn’t bound to accept it though. I need to go back and read the old Peat Worrier article, but I think he said Coulsdon’s evidence wasn’t that important to Sheridan’s conviction at all, so he couldn’t see how his being caught out in a liw would make any difference.

  283. heedtracker says:

    I think he said Coulsdon’s evidence wasn’t that important to Sheridan’s conviction at all, so he couldn’t see how his being caught out in a liw would make any difference.

    Morag why was the jury not allowed to decide if Coulson perjured himself?

    Why was Sheridan not called/allowed to be a witness?

    Corruption of teamGB establishment on display today.

  284. Morag says:

    Considering that Peat Worrier called the whole thing right down the line ages ago, I can’t see why people are shouting about corruption and a fix. If you disagree, go argue with Peat Worrier about it.

  285. heedtracker says:

    Carmichael will be just like Coulson. He lied about his leak but that’s ok. His leak was not illegal because at the time he leaked it, he thought that the French memo was true.

    Not guilty.

    Arise Sir Alistair, Lord Carmichael of the very Northern bit of UKOK. Tasty.

  286. Capella says:

    The point about the Coulson perjury being irrelevant was made by Paul McBride immediately after the trial. Unfortunately he then died in a Pakistan hotel so can’t explain his reasoning.

  287. donald anderson says:

    Scotland is irrelevant to the lot of them. The sooner we leave them all behind the better.

  288. Sunniva says:

    I would really urge independenistas to stay clear of George Square. They, the unionists, are clearly hoping to provoke an incriminating reaction. Agent provocateur – the oldest trick in the book. The best opposition we can offer is to sign the petition against GCC. Otherwise ignore their silly parades.

    Far more effective by far!

  289. Jack Murphy says:

    House of Commons. Tributes to Charles Kennedy will be at 12:30pm immediately following Prime Minister’s Questions.

  290. Robert Peffers says:

    As far as I’m concerned the Scottish legal system is long overdue a clear out starting at the top and working down.

    I’ll always hold that Tommy is innocent and Coulson as guilty as hell and that the Scottish Legal system is corrupt and long ago became part of the English establishment.

  291. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Would be interested to know Mr Wings’ take on the ludicrous Alex Massie piece from earlier today, considering how warmly Wings has received him in the past.”

    It was shite, and I told him so, and he’s now apologised for it. He’s still mostly a very good columnist, but everyone has off days.

  292. Big Jock says:

    Oh the irony. Orange Order calls for tolerance! I nearly choked on my tea. Remember Scotland is British folks cause they said it is!

  293. Big Jock says:

    He’s a Tory tosser Stu!

  294. Fiona says:

    Mr Massie sort of, kind of, apologised in a tweet: but it is Alex Salmond’s fault for he was not clear, apparently.

    Has Mr Massie apologised where the original article appeared?

  295. schrodingers cat says:


    your dislike of sheridan is palpable

    i would have liked sheridan to at least have cross examined coulson and the jury to pass judgement.

    peat worriers thoughts on the legality are sound and well argued, but legal positions are just that, positions. other lawyers would no doubt see it differently. the point of the court case was to give sheridan a chance to make his case(not to review the peat worriers blog site) and to allow the jury to make a judgment. that will not now happen

    what heedtracker said about the carmicheal fiasco is very relevant here, the parlaimentary standards enquiry will no doubt find that since honourable unionist mps dont have any honour or standards, carmicheal cannot have broken any. case dismissed.

    arise sir micheal of eastbumfukcshire

  296. Joemcg says:

    Maybe Dr Michael Rosie should have a wee look at the 2 bigots filmed screaming homophobic abuse in George square on the 19th one of whom had been pictured in full OO regalia on one of their childish walks before calling for tolerance. What hope have we got if Rosie is on the secterianism panel.

  297. schrodingers cat says:

    @robert peffers
    “I’ll always hold that Tommy is innocent and Coulson as guilty as hell”

    i dont really know enough about the cases in point to pass comment. Im just disappointed that a jury of tommy’s peers will not now be able to pass judgement
    the rights and wrongs of the case will now be decided in newspapers and blog sites since that appears to be all that is left

  298. Capella says:

    Perhaps Tommy Sheridan was going to appeal in the light of a Coulson conviction for perjury. That won’t now happen. As I remember LPW’s case was not that Coulson wouldn’t be found guilty of perjury (it’s hard to see how a jury could find otherwise) but that it would not, in itself, provide Sheridan with an argument against his own conviction.

    But the jury was not allowed to hear the defence evidence and was dismissed. Why did the Crown bring the case in the first place if it was so clear that Coulson’s lies were not perjury?

    This case is riddled with mysteries and puzzles.

  299. Morag says:

    I don’t dislike Tommy Sheridan. I’ve got a great deal of respect for him. He conducted himself extremely well during the independence campaign.

    The whole perjury thing is only one facet of the man. It’s unattractive, but we all have our unattractive facets. I think it’s better to accept it and move on, and support Sheridan’s future contributions to Scottish political life.

    Trying to pretend he didn’t do it, because he’s your hero, is counterproductive. He can still be your hero, he doesn’t have to be perfect.

  300. Morag says:

    Capella, you’re right, LPW’s case wasn’t that Coulson wouldn’t be found guilty of perjury, but that even if he was it wouldn’t be relevant to Sheridan’s conviction.

    I think the legal point that’s been brought out now is that in fact it wasn’t perjury, precisely because what he said wasn’t relevant to Sheridan’s conviction.

  301. schrodingers cat says:

    “Trying to pretend he didn’t do it, because he’s your hero, is counterproductive. He can still be your hero, he doesn’t have to be perfect.”

    bollox, where did i pretend he didnt do it? i stated i didnt know either way

    bollox, he isnt my hero either

    grow up

  302. Valerie says:

    On the Orangefest, you should take a look at Mike Smalls FOI letter he has published. A breakdown by area of marches, and cost to the public purse, it’s shocking.

    It’s just been put up on Bella

  303. Fiona says:

    The problem with the coulson judgement is that it assumes that Mr Coulson’s lies were not relevant to the jury’s decision. I do not see how we can possibly know that.

    The evidence was not one sided, but the videotape was important, so far as I can see. It had dubious provenance, and it is not that hard to doctor a video. Accepting it does seem to me to partly depend on your view of the credibility of the person presenting it. Had the jury known that Mr Coulson was already fully complicit in hacking etc, they might have believed him capable of altering or even manufacturing the video.

    I am not saying they would have taken that view: and I am not saying that they would not have preferred the evidence of those who said Mr Sheridan admitted his offence over those who said he did not.

    But I am not at all happy that the judge in this case has chosen not to put that to the test of a jury decision.

  304. Big Jock says:

    Here’s the deal. Right wing columnists like Massie. Look to be offended every time Alex Salmond speaks. They then twist the truth and print a lot of libelous half truths. It goes to press. The other guys and BBC are all over it. It the comes out a day later it was porkies.

    This is a personal crusade against Salmond, because they hate him for bringing the referendum. How dare he allow the Scots to decide their own future. The Brits are in charge and there is no division as long as the Scots do as their masters tell them to.

  305. Capella says:

    @ Morag
    I agree. It is news to me that lying under oath isn’t perjury. But who decides what is relevant? Paul McBride, who first asserted this, is now dead.

    Andy Coulson has now been found to have lied about what he knew and authorised e.g. the payments to corrupt police.

    We know that Sheridan was denied leave to appeal. He was barred from calling a witness who impersonated him on radio. The NoW “lost” emails to and from the man who made a recording of Sheridan and was allegedly paid by the NoW to do this.
    (I linked to this above).

    Looks relevant to me. But I’m no judge!

  306. Bill Steele says:

    If the result of the election in any way figured in Charles Kennedy’s death, blame the constituents who did not vote for him, not the SNP.

  307. Capella says:

    From Lord Bracadale’s notes strangely denying the Sheridans’ claim that the pre trial publicity would prejudice the jury. Worth a read if you’re a bit of an anorak:

    “During this period many articles were published in a wide range of newspapers, some of which were not prejudicial, but some expressed scepticism about Mr Sheridan’s position.
    Crown witness 117, George McNeillage, claimed to have recorded on videotape Mr Sheridan making certain admissions. Mr Sheridan denies being the person in the videotape. The videotape will feature in the criminal trial. The videotape came into the hands of the News of the World and its contents were heavily covered in the edition published on 1 October 2006. A transcript of the tape was published. Members of the public could listen to the tape by telephoning a published number or by visiting a website. It was asserted that voice experts had identified the voice as that of Mr Sheridan. It was not the intention of the Crown to lead expert voice identification in the criminal trial.
    Officers of Lothian and Borders police, who were by this stage carrying out an investigation into an allegation of perjury, visited the editor of the News of the World on 5 October 2006. In the course of the meeting they warned the editor that any further press coverage would be potentially problematic to any future criminal proceedings. Despite that warning, in the edition of the newspaper published on 8 October further extensive coverage of the videotape was included. The existence and contents of the videotape were given extensive coverage in other newspapers. The Times of 2 October reported that the public had responded to the invitation to listen to the tape.”

  308. Charles Edward says:

    @ Valerie

    contrast the sums of public money spent on this with the paltry 50,000 announced today to encourage Gaelic in the Arts.
    BBC radio scotlandshire news reader sounded bemused at this figure!

    Priorities are all wrong here.
    I don’t need to learn anything about King billy.
    It’s completely irrelevant in the modern Scotland we have today.
    On one hand triumphalism spitting on our children, on the other the great heritage of our father’s fathers.

    This is 21st century Scotland?

  309. donkies says:

    Unionist scum fucks

  310. Grouse Beater says:

    I don’t need to learn anything about King billy. It’s completely irrelevant in the modern Scotland we have today.

    Hostile unionists are the same people who belittle Scotland’s history as bunkum.

    Well, yes, if written by English historians.

  311. Staggie1746 says:

    Bill Steele: “blame the constituents who did not vote for him, not the SNP”

    Maybe re-think that a bit eh?
    How about blaming nobody and accepting the man wasn’t been well and is hopefully at peace now?
    Rather than casting thoughtless aspersions as to who should shoulder responsibility for his death.

  312. Big jock says:

    The unionists have largely invented their identity. Many of them have very Celtic/Gaelic names.

    Yet history only started for them at the Battle of the Boyne and the Act of union. They actually choose to deny their true celtic origins which were long established in highland clans and the islands going back to the 1100s.

    The British identity only evolved after 1745 and the battle of Waterloo etc. So it’s younger than the American identity…how ironic.

    These people want to be part of something their ancestors fought against. They have no culture it lives in a vacum of denial.

  313. Petra says:

    Anyone noticed a connection here?

    David Cameron promoted Richard Keen QC a few short weeks ago. He’s now Advocate General for Scotland (top dog): said to be a donator to the Tory Party …… he then stated that it was actually his wife who had donated the money.

    Richard Keen represented Tommy Sheridan as his QC until Tommy sacked him hence Keen knows Tommy’s case inside out.

    Coulson then requested Keen represent him in this case. Keen has been Coulson’s QC. The person who got him off the hook.

    You couldn’t make it up.

  314. woosie says:

    Carmichael is going nowhere because the english establishment own the courts. He’ll get protection because he was working with them to attempt to smear NS. His peerage is now assured.

    Wish I could read Russian, I bet their press is having great fun with the politics of the uk.

  315. manandboy says:

    @ Bill Steele : 1:42 pm

    If the result of the election in any way figured in Charles Kennedy’s death, blame the constituents who did not vote for him, not the SNP.”

    Absolutely correct Bill.

    Furthermore, Charles Kennedy’s entire political career from 1983 till 2015, was supervised and controlled by the voters in his constituency. In addition, given the kind of people in that constituency, it is more than likely that the voters knew he liked a dram. But the kind of man he was, together with his talents and abilities, was more than enough to sustain him in the position as their representative at Westminster.

    But come GE15, even a Charles Kennedy in perfect health, could not withstand the unpredicted political shift that sent 56 SNP MP’s to Westminster.

    The voters gave; and the voters took away. Long live Democracy.

    Charle Kennedy’s life has run it’s course. His career over. The tyranny of his addiction is ended. He is surely at peace. May his family find the comfort and support they need in their loss. Few indeed will be glad at his passing.

  316. Capella says:

    Craig Murray has his say on the trial of Andy Coulson – not impressed by the Scottish Legal system. He links to a detailed criticism from Gordon Dangerfield – Tommy’s lawyer.

  317. Charles Edward says:

    He saw good in people – even his staunchest political foes – and that always brought out the best in people in return. 

    He was the polar opposite of a cardboard cut out, point scoring party politician. 

    Brave yet vulnerable. 

    Brilliant yet flawed. 

    – Nick Clegg on Charles Kennedy.

  318. Marydoll says:


    That was a very interesting article. I suspected Tommy was
    ‘done up like a kipper’ but didn’t know how. I haven’t been following the Coulson case , as I knew he’d be found innocent. I’m disgusted that the Scottish Crown are also liars . So that’s Alistair Carmichael off scot-free as lying is now allowed in court, parliament , MSM .

  319. Ross-Shire Exile says:

    @manandboy, 3 June, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    Absolutely correct?

    I’m fairly sure Charlie’s alcoholism, the resultant loss of leadership of his party, his divorce, the recent loss of his mother, the more recent loss of his father, the recent major accident suffered by his brother which left him paralysed, the collapse of the party he helped build up, perhaps even his rumoured struggles with depression, and his health are all relevant to his troubles in his final days. Rather than just the voters.

    Seeking to blame any one thing for his death, in these circumstances, is ridiculous. Seeking to blame his constituents for not voting for him anymore is grossly insensitive and utterly ignorant.

    (“the kind of people in that constituency”, “more than likely…knew he liked a dram”, I wouldn’t like to spend too long trying to work out what you’re implying there?!)

    Charlie had a good idea of what was coming in the election, he was an incredibly talented and intelligent politician, of course he would have. Similarly, he had ambitions for after losing his seat (like the EU referendum), and the talent to realise those ambitions.

    The voters did not take all that away and I cant believe there are people stupid enough to say “he died because he lost his seat”. Shows a real lack of knowledge of the man, and of the illness he had.

  320. Effijy says:

    Every time we hear about paedophile rings covering up for each other the list reads:
    Politicians, Senior Police Officers and JUDGES!
    If you were one of these Judges, would you be willing
    To break or bend the law to stop it bring you to Justice?

  321. Lochside says:

    Capella…fascinating link. And only goes to prove that like all the other ‘Scottish’ institutions: Police, Education and Church they are not fit for purpose. Just colonial dangleberries hanging off the ugly arse of the British State.

  322. Capella says:

    @ Petra and Marydoll
    Indeed. Curiouser and curiouser.
    The Judge – David Burns and Coulson’s QC Richard Keen, now Advocate General for Scotland appointed by David Cameron in May this year, both acted as Defence Counsel in the Lockerbie trials 2000 – 02. Sheridan’s QC Margaret Scott previously represented Abdelbaset al-Megrahi in an appeal against his conviction for the Lockerbie bombing.

    It’s a very small world in Scottish Legal circles.

  323. manandboy says:

    Generations of Scots have been left in the dark by the exclusion of important aspects of Scottish History as taught in Scottish schools. Sovereignty is one of them, and has been alluded to previously. Another is the Establishment.

    An understanding of the Establishment is essential in current politics. Not because there is anything intrinsically wrong with an Establishment, but because, in the case of the British Establishment, it has undergone a change which is being rejected by the UK electorate, but with just not enough rejection to make a difference in the choice of Government. In England, in GE15, 24.9% of the electorate voted Conservative, 36.9% of those who cast their votes. Assuming the election was conducted fairly in all aspects.

    The rejection in England & Wales of The Establishment, ran parallel to the rejection of the Unionist Establishment in Scotland, though this rejection was far more decisive and emphatic. But in both cases the reason for the rejection at the ballot box was the same, and it was not because the voters had changed. No, in both cases, it was because The Establishment had changed – and the voters didn’t like it.

    Both north and south of the border, the unionist political parties had abandoned their traditional approach to government as service, and adopted a new approach, which amounted to self-service. The Establishment has, since the time of Mgt. Thatcher 1979-1990, seen politics as an opportunity to make a personal fortune at the expense of the population at large. The latest device used to exploit the opportunities for wealth presented by Governance, is well known and is called Austerity. It is in fact a scam which diverts the nations wealth away from public services and transfers it to already wealthy private individuals.


    And this is very important today, for the reason that the electorate is not yet in a position to rectify this situation, either because too many voters in England are in favour of the change, or are unaware of it. To a much lesser extent this pattern is also present in Scotland, but at GE15, it was not very visible under FPTP, but it may well be more visible at the Holyrood elections in 2016 under AMS (Additional Member System).

    The bad news is that the timetable for the effective rejection of the now corrupt Establishment is too long. In five years time, not only will the electorate in the UK be far poorer than it is now, but the political resistance to the Establishment will continue to find itself subject to constant degradation by the Westminster Government, which hopes thereby to control the voting intentions of sufficient numbers of the electorate as to return yet another Tory Government at the 2020 election, and thereby extend even further the industrial scale removal of the nations collective wealth to the Establishment.

    By that time, Scottish Independence will be history, one way or the other. The choice is entirely yours. Vote SNP always.

  324. manandboy says:

    @ Ross-Shire Exile says:7:06 pm
    “Seeking to blame any one thing for his death, in these circumstances, is ridiculous.”

    RSE, My apologies, I ought to have been more precise in my comments, as I was trying to make the point that Charles Kennedy’s political career was dependent entirely on the voters in his constituency, nothing more. To connect the loss of his seat to his passing was furthest from my mind.

  325. Rock says:

    schrodingers cat,

    “At the High Court in Edinburgh on Monday, Lord Burns upheld a defence submission that the 47-year-old had no case to answer, bringing to an end a major police inquiry and prosecution which cost millions of pounds.”

    As I have been saying, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core.

    And the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

    Morag, what is the current status of the Megrahi appeal?

  326. Tackety Beets says:

    I have just speed read to catch up .

    I can only add that , IMO ,

    Ref GE 2015 .
    CK would have been the premier MP from the Onionist parties whereby his constituents , many of whom were his previous supporters turned to vote SNP with “a heavy heart” .

    In other words All other Onionist MPs had their constituents voting SNP and gladly giving their old MP the single fingered salute whispering GIRFUY as they left the polling station.
    I doubt any of his constituents felt like that.

    Something else we will never know now , sadly .

    Last year , Whether he was unhappy with the BT in the way the conducted the issues in the Ref matter not. Was CK very unhappy with the way Scotland was then being treated since Sept 19th. I suspect he did not care much for what he was seeing/hearing.

    Regardless ,his passing has been felt by many who only knew the pubic Charlie.

  327. Big Jock says:

    I hate to be pedantic.

    However I will be anyway! Alcoholism is not a disease nor a mental condition. Alcohol is a crutch for those with pre existing mental illness. This could be depression or social anxiety for example. People may turn to drink or drugs or other forms of abusive substances to mask their symptoms. Charles Kennedy turned to drink because it was readily available and legal.

    The chances are he had either anxiety,depression or issues with self worth. These mental conditions are treatable if the patient is willing and doesn’t drink. Its a shame our media use words like alcohol disease without having the first clue about the actual mental illnesses.

  328. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I’ll just say, re CK’s death, that police said ‘there were no suspicious circumstances’.

    Some commenters have suggested that the deaths of his mother and father, his brother’s accident, or his defeat in the GE, could have been factors.

    If he had suffered a massive stroke, a heart attack, a burst stomach ulcer, or similar, that can happen at any age, any depression he felt over events, would have absolutely no bearing on his death.

    No point in being presumptuous before the results of the post mortem.

  329. Stoker says:

    Big Jock wrote:
    “I hate to be pedantic. However I will be anyway! Alcoholism is not a disease nor a mental condition. Alcohol is a crutch for those with pre existing mental illness.”

    100% Spot on, IMO.
    Alcohol dependency is self-created, usually originally to mask or block out other situations within ones mind and life. It’s a very dangerous self-inflicted perceived coping mechanism.

  330. Big Jock says:

    Agree Stoker. A disease is something which attacks the body or mind without the victims choice. Heavy drinking is a self inflicted form of abuse where the person chooses to drink. Alcoholism is not a disease! As an external substance is willingly put into the body by the addict.

    So the disease is not alcoholism it’s self harming. Very similar to anorexia. The disease is not lack of food that’s the symptom, it’s self loathing and low self exteem or body dysmorphia. Both can lead to death, one due to lack of nutrition and the other due to over indulgence or abuse. Remember an addict only becomes so because something is wrong in their life. Hence the majority can drink without addiction or abuse. It’s easy to blame alcohol, but we all know it’s just an available substance not a contractible disease.

    The cause of both is of the mind, not the alcohol or food or body shape.People may die as a result of alcohol abuse but that’s the physical symptom to a disease of the mind.

  331. Jimmy says:

    I agree that all these comments linking Charles Kennedy’s tragic death with the SNP are absolutely disgraceful and the people who made them should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

  332. donald anderson says:

    Jimmy says:
    I agree that all these comments linking Charles Kennedy’s tragic death with the SNP are absolutely disgraceful and the people who made them should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

    No chance. They are utterly shameless.

  333. Bill Fraser says:

    These people are absolutely sick in their minds.

  334. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Looks like I was on the ball with my suggestion on
    4 June at 12:40 am:-

    If he had suffered a massive stroke, a heart attack, a burst stomach ulcer, or similar, that can happen at any age, any depression he felt over events, would have absolutely no bearing on his death.

    Former Lib Dem leader Charles Kennedy died of a major haemorrhage linked to alcoholism, his family has said.

    So, nothing to do with how he was feeling about recent events – and nothing to do with the SNP!

  335. robertknight says:

    Aye, but never let facts get in the way of a good smear attempt aimed at the SNP.

  336. donald anderson says:

    The verdict today says he died of a hemorrhage due to alcohol, nothing about homicide by the SNP.

  337. Fiona says:

    @ donald anderson

    nothing about homicide by the SNP.

    Well that proves it. Lack of evidence is always conclusive proof for the conspiracy theorist. Cover up, you see.

  338. Bill Fraser says:

    What will they try next?Seems no end to their ignorance.

  339. squewedperspective says:

    Sad and sick

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