Money-where-your-mouth-is time
STV’s notorious quisling correspondent Stephen “Stevo” Daisley has an interesting piece today about the latest manufactured “cybernat” shock-horror outrage being punted by the Daily Mail (although curiously, the major “CYBERNAT WEB OF HATE!” exposé they promised readers would be published on Thursday is yet to materialise).
Daisley’s column makes some valid points about how the SNP could distance itself from the most extremist elements of its online support, but with one important flaw – it overlooks a crucial factor driving internet rage, and as a result its recommendations would only actually make the situation worse.
But fear not, gentle and sensitive reader. Conveniently, there’s an easy solution.
What the article fails to take into account is that to a very large degree, the reason that “cybernats” are so angry in the first place is because they’re so often unfairly and one-sidedly castigated, vilified and defamed by an overwhelmingly Unionist media.
Innocuous comments are regularly portrayed as unspeakable hatred, and demented hysteria whipped up over things you wouldn’t blink at if someone said them to you in the pub in a heated debate, while far worse behaviour from supporters of the Union largely goes unremarked and unpunished.
Roping the First Minister into the lynch mob would only increase people’s (often justified) sense of persecution and victimisation, making them even more likely to lash out. The angry reaction on social media yesterday to her writing an article for the Daily Mail on the subject – though the piece itself was perfectly reasonable and even-handed, it was distorted by the Mail in exactly the manner readers might expect – was ample proof of that problem.
But there IS a way to defuse the situation. Rather than Nicola Sturgeon allowing herself to be seen as endorsing a deeply partisan Daily Mail witch-hunt, she could issue a simple challenge to the leaders of the other parties in Scotland: agree and sign a joint statement by which each vows to expel from their own party anyone found guilty of unacceptable abuse.
The record of Scottish Labour, in particular, in this regard is abject. On the rare occasions the party is taken to task in the press it has washed its hands of abuse, saying that offensive and threatening comments by party supporters and elected officials alike were matters for the individuals concerned, rather than for Labour.
Scottish Labour also dragged its heels for months and months before reluctantly disciplining high-profile member and BBC pundit Ian Smart for a long series of disgraceful and abusive comments on social media, only finally doing so after this site compiled a dossier and the First Minister raised the issue in Parliament.
(Despite the fact that the party was well aware of them, given that the vast majority of its elected representatives followed Smart on Twitter.)
More often, the party’s response is simply total silence. When the vice-chair of an Ayrshire constituency Labour Party into martial arts and guns told us our “days are numbered” last month, not a word of condemnation was to be heard from anyone in Labour, even after they were alerted to the comments:
The Scottish Tories are no better, regularly turning a blind eye to barely-veiled threats like these from pound-shop-Charles-Bronson councillor Gordon Maccaskill:
A joint statement from the leaders of all parties announcing a zero-tolerance approach on anyone identified as a member guilty of unacceptable behaviour would not only send a message of unity and decency rising above party point-scoring, but would also go a long way defuse the persecution complex of those on the SNP/Yes side.
By finally acknowledging on a headline level what’s normally only (at best) mumbled passingly at the bottom of paragraph 26 in hand-wringing “cybernat” stories – that abuse is by no means limited to, or even disproportionately committed by, those who want to see an independent Scotland, everyone would share the moral high ground.
For that reason, of course, it won’t happen. The Unionist parties and media are far too wedded to the comfortable crutch of using “cybernats” as a stick to beat the SNP with to ever willingly give it up. Labour would find itself expelling not just a few internet loonies, but a significant proportion of its elected representatives and party officials.
Nevertheless, we invite Nicola Sturgeon, Ruth Davidson, Willie Rennie and whoever draws the short straw in the Scottish Labour poisoned-chalice raffle to make the pledge. Get together and show you mean what you say. Sign your names to a declaration promising that you’ll treat your own people the same as you’re demanding happens to your opponents.
Because if you don’t, we’ll all know what that means.
Andrew Neil today, got of on one about Neil Hay calling No supporters “("Quizmaster" - Ed)s”. A lie, but repeat it often enough and like shite it tends to stick. What really pissed me of was Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh not correcting the dissembling tosser.
We do know what it means. They will never do this, because to do so would be to acknowledge two things: that there are offensive people in every party and movement; and that much of what they portray as abuse is nothing of the sort, as they tacitly assume when their own support does it.
I do not condone death threats or abuse: I believe there are laws to deal with those matters, however. Maybe we should enforce them
I have a better idea. If there is a specific problem in Scotland with internet abuse, why does the Scottish government (I think they have competence) not bring in the toughest internet abuse laws in the world for a temporary period to deal with it?
Any threat on the internet to a politician or person in public life to be met with a jail term of six months; abuse to attract a huge fine and naming and shaming.
Let’s see how long that law lasts before the unionists and their media start screaming that it’s not fair.
I am fed up to the back teeth of the constant stream of vilification from the very people who are responsable for the very worst of abuse who are then protected by the media and the other parties whereas one of us has to just as much as sneeze and theyre all over us like a rash!
And in addition, I challenge the Daily Mail to allow, once a week or once a month, unfettered access for a representative from the Scottish Independence online community to guest editor the Daily Mail.
(not Derek Bateman)
How about it Daily Mail?
Let us see your Democratic principles and sense of British Fair Play.
Dream on if you think any unionist anywhere is interested in fairness or decency where Scotland is concerned.
The end justifies the means as far as they are concerned,and keeping Scotland as a colony is the end game.
You are asking them to make a vow, Wow
“You are asking them to make a vow, Wow”
It was not unintentional
There was going to be a line about getting the Daily Record to print it on fake parchment on page 1, but it spoiled the flow of the text.
Sounds like a plan, won’t be holding my breath though.
An excellent idea, great for Scotland and the British Isles.
We can tidy up this freakshow, and protect the reputations of ourselves and our opponents, if I’m being fair.
…Come on Ms Sturgeon, serve an ace right into their court.
@ jphn king
I agree, but fortunately it really does not matter any more. The fact is that there are enough people who support independence to render this traditional tactic wholly ineffective, by now. This is the measure of how utterly out of touch MSM is, these days. Demonisation works best when the people who are being “informed” do not know the demons: and this is true in rUK, probably. It is not true in Scotland, where everyone has family or friends who want self determination.
I do not know what the standard move is when the critical mass is surpassed, but this is not it. I believe it merely breeds contempt for the media, and does no damage at all in Scotland despite their fond imaginings.
They play at political point scoring while people in the real world are often the collateral damage in their stupid, pointless games. Media commentariat and politicians can turn your stomach on a daily basis.
And these institutions wonder why people have lost faith and trust in them? They bleat about their falling sales/readerships or their lost wards and voters. They blame others for their crimes. Do they even care about the harm they cause?
Doesn’t appear so, does it?
This is basically where months of the SNP tacitly accepting the media narrative has got them. It really doesn’t matter how “hard” they come down, how many people they expel, how holier-than-thou they and the Green-Yes type top people become. The London media is never going to love the SNP, and will only ever demand ever harder crack-downs, until there is no one left on SM willing to put their head over the parapet to argue for independence or the SNP, and the MSM line is the only one heard again. That’s what all this is ultimately about, and the SNP hasn’t really handled it particularly well so far.
“STV’s notorious ‘("Quizmaster" - Ed)’ reporter” ….. why this gratutous abuse as the opening line of an article on abuse?
““STV’s notorious ‘("Quizmaster" - Ed)’ reporter” ….. why this gratutous abuse as the opening line of an article on abuse?”
It’s a joke. Everyone knows I love Stephen and we’ve made our position on the Q-word clear countless times.
Stephen Daisley: “In Scotland, this stratum finds most notorious expression in cybernattery, the often belligerent, endlessly paranoid, and pungently abusive prosecution of the case for Scottish independence.”
link to news.stv.tv
Speaking of paranoid fruit loops, has anyone here visited Stephen Daisley’s eclecticpartisan.com . The blogroll links to Janet Daley, Melanie Phillips, David Frum, Harry’s Place and UK Media Watch. I mean, FUCKING HELL. No wonder Stephen wanted Jim Murphy to stroke his kittens.
STV’s finest has a less well-known twitter account – @MrPartisan – but it appears to have been made private towards the end of 2013. Can’t think why.
@MrPartisan: Show your solidarity with our compatriots in the Falklands. Follow @falklands_utd #ProudToBeBritish The Falklands no son “Las Malvinas”!
@MrPartisan: In celebrating Chavez’s thugocracy, democratic left has once again given in to the temptations of romantic authoritarianism.
@MrPartisan: Labour will never forgive itself for overthrowing Saddam and freeing the people of Iraq
@MrPartisan: Here’s an idea: Instead of negotiating with the Taliban let’s kill these barbarians
@MrPartisan: Parliament has spoken. The Prime Minister should ignore it, and strike Assad.
No belligerence there, then.
Alternatively, we could all just grow up and realise that some online ugliness is part of the price we pay for free and open communication facilities. Expecting anyone to police Twitter to everyone’s satisfaction is just plain stupid. Expecting political parties to do so is sheer lunacy. The day political parties have that kind of power we’ll have something a lot more significant to whine about than the barely-coherent, semi-literate virtual gruntings of a few slope-browed, slack-jawed, knuckle-draggers.
Sick as I am of the trolls, I am a even more weary of the self-appointed guardians of social media propriety and their incessant whining about “vile abuse”. It is NEVER a good idea to let the Daily Mail set the agenda. It is a worse idea to pander to its crude rabble-rousing and base hate-mongering.
Enough!!!
And I’m not a man given to lightly using three exclamation marks.
Don’t be ridiculous! Why would the media acknowledge that any party other than the hated SNP have members who overstep the mark on occasion? That would do nothing to further their agenda. Best just keep to the lies, surely.
Well said, Peter A Bell
It’s all part of the prolonged propaganda attack to narrow the debate.
GCHQ has an entire unit devoted to ‘Scottish insurgency.’
Ignore the sods or tell them to take a hike but whatever your response keep your eye on the main objective, which is the greater debate on ways to attain Scotland’s full democratic rights.
Well barely a week after that notorious Cyber Brit Nat the Duchess of Hogwarts launched her anti Scottish tirade she gets a free 5 minute publicity spot to promote her latest Harry Potter guff on the Brit Nat Brainwashing Corp. Wizzo!
Rotten corrupt sleazy criminal Britannia at its best.
The BBC just love those little girls and boys don’t they.
You are bit behind the times with a 2012 example. More up to date would have been
link to heraldscotland.com
but then that would have spoiled your narrative. What’s that about not letting the truth get in the way …
“You are bit behind the times with a 2012 example. More up to date would have been
link to heraldscotland.com
but then that would have spoiled your narrative. What’s that about not letting the truth get in the way …”
Er, you did notice that we acknowledged their belated action against Smart in the article, right?
Anyone remember the Open Democracy piece on orchestrated propaganda? Their point being that this is:
“essentially a media machine entirely in lock step with Conservative HQ. Their attacks are the same, their language is the same, their soundbites, their heroes, their villains, the lot. When one changes tactics, so does the other…
From around April 12th onwards, the new villain was Nicola Sturgeon, the “poisoned dwarf” as the Sun called her, the “most dangerous woman in Britain”. The message runs essentially as follows: Sturgeon will dominate a weak Miliband in a coalition, the SNP will destroy the country. It’s “the worst constitutional crisis since the abdication”, ran the Mail’s front page.”
link to opendemocracy.net
Sounds good in theory but not much good in practice. The only means Parties’ have to discipline people is to kick them out of the Party. While that may worry serious activists, councillors, MSPs and MPs it will have little effect on ordinary members who use abuse, and no effect on those who are not party members. But it would be a start.
As stated by Stu and others here, decrying Cybernats is an easy means of abusing the SNP, which is the real target of the Unionist supporting media. They will not stop while the SNP is in power. And let us not forget either that it is an easy means of generating comment, clicks and paper sales.
The only REAL remedy is to get more newspapers and commentators on the side of the SNP: even neutrality would be a start. But that is going to be a long long road. Look what happened when Sturgeon pandered to the D Heil.
In the meantime get out there onto Twitter and Facebook and fight back.
“Sounds good in theory but not much good in practice. The only means Parties’ have to discipline people is to kick them out of the Party. While that may worry serious activists, councillors, MSPs and MPs it will have little effect on ordinary members who use abuse, and no effect on those who are not party members. But it would be a start.”
Obviously it would be a mainly symbolic gesture. Most Twitter abusers use pseudonyms anyway. But that means there’s even less excuse for the parties not doing it.
I think Sturgeon is right to take the battle direct to the Daily Mail, rather than ignore it. Now they’ve fallen for it, they can never again say the SNP are behind “cybernats,” so they’ve rather shot themselves in the foot.
But a cross-party consensus as Rev suggests is obviously the way to go, taking the battle direct to SNP’s political opponents.
One other possible route is to order an enquiry into online abuse, with the hope that MSM will report the findings, i.e. Nats are generally the victims.
“Roping the First Minister into the lynch mob would only increase people’s (often justified) sense of persecution and victimisation, making them even more likely to lash out. The angry reaction on social media yesterday to her writing an article for the Daily Mail on the subject – though the piece itself was perfectly reasonable and even-handed, it was distorted by the Mail in exactly the manner readers might expect – was ample proof of that problem“.
Thanks for that, Stu. Important for both sides to understand.
Not to mention that Sturgeon has not been seen endorsing a hate-rag at all. They reprinted an SNP website blogpost which made no mention of them and called it an exclusive.
“Not to mention that Sturgeon has not been seen endorsing a hate-rag at all. They reprinted an SNP website blogpost which made no mention of them and called it an exclusive.”
The Mail claims it was written for them and republished on the SNP website. As yet there’s no evidence to disprove that and the SNP haven’t challenged it.
This is a really good suggestion, and it would be great if it got taken up. It won’t, of course, for the very reasons you state – the current situation is too useful for the media and opposition parties. The thing is, I don’t see why that should stop us giving it a go anyway.
A tweet I saw the other day got me thinking about all this. It was a tweet sent to a female professor, and it was just pure abuse. It wasn’t political or a rebuttal to anything, it was just abuse. Society as a whole should be trying to stamp abuse out of the internet, because it exists everywhere. The problem is it’ll never be stamped out as long as people keep using it as a stick to beat opponents with, and as a result, three things happen:
1) strong rebuttals from one side start getting mischaracterised as “abuse” and it just becomes a game of trying to silence dissent
2) folk on the other side feel vindicated and absolved of their own responsibility and start upping the ante of the abuse that they send to people
3) it all becomes a fight between two sides about who does or doesn’t send abuse, and the genuine abuse in other areas of life gets ignored
Internet abuse is widespread. It happens across all areas of debate, in all walks of life, from all sides of the political spectrum (and none), in every country. It’s a human failing, not a failing of independence supporters.
Now there are two responses to that. We can either go “oh well, it’s just human nature, everybody does it, it’ll never be stopped so we might as well just accept it”; or we could try to lead the way and say “Scotland does not accept online abuse.”
Imagine if the independence movement took the bull by the horns, recognised that there are people who send abuse on our side (like there are on all sides and none) and did our utmost to lead the charge in stamping it out? When we see someone sending an ever-so-witty tweet calling someone a ("Quizmaster" - Ed) or a ("Tractor" - Ed), we said “gonnae no?”
Imagine if our responses to unionists tweeting abusive pish was to turn the other cheek (urgh, I sound like a Christian here) and just not let ourselves be dragged down to their level? Since I just started blocking folk, Twitter’s been far better (although it’s been getting on my nerves recently – and I can’t blame unionists for that, because I’ve blocked them all.)
Instead, at the moment, our response is always “yeah but everyone does it, and look what the other lot say about Nicola Sturgeon.” It may be true, but does it actually help anyone?
I think this is what Nicola’s trying to do here – get the SNP to lead by example, so at the very least we can say “we’ve got our house in order, how about yours?” Personally, I think those of us who are in the SNP could do worse than try to back her up a bit. And it’d be great if the wider independence movement helped as well.
Let’s shame the other lot into raising their game, rather than sinking to their level.
Oh come on Rev, the media stops vilifying the Cybernats what the hell do they fill their ‘ Scotland sections only’ with ?
It’s a wee while until the next World Cup where they can vilify Argentina, Germany or France for whatever grievance they’ve got until then due to absolutely Hee haw happening in Scotland , they’ve only us or Greece.
If the Liberals, Tories and Labour signed a pledge about the Internet but not the media overall does that then mean our msm could still print their damaging and just as offensive articles ?
For example , I’m sure history woman , a prolific tweeter on behalf of BetterTogether/the Union did not mean in her tweet as reported in the Courier that because Dundee voted Yes, that all Dundonians are drunks? It’s only one side that does that kind of thing ( although kudos to the Courier for reporting it)
After all our Former Secretary of State used the msm to lie, the Tories used the MSM to bludgeon the electorate in the run up to the GE, Labour controls the majority of the media in Scotland including the BBC ? Perhaps if they published that old report , the media would then perhaps have to be more careful what and how they report items
If our media is so worried about the Internet and people being offended , why don’t they ask why we need the 77 brigade or whatever they’re called , Afterall our media as has been proven are in closer contact to SOME of our politicians than we are .
We could make a start on here:
Cut out the slagging of people for weight, girth, coiffure, accent, manner of speech, dress sense and physical imperfections.
Do the easy thing first before asking others to step up to the plate, so to speak.
@ John King a box of tissues & tube of ointment on the way.lol
The Rev wrote:
“The Unionist parties and media are far too wedded to the comfortable crutch of using “cybernats” as a stick to beat the SNP with to ever willingly give it up. Labour would find itself expelling not just a few internet loonies, but a significant proportion of its elected representatives and party officials.”
How is DAME Ann Begg getting on these days, has she been stripped of her title? Has she been thrown out of her Party? Has she been expelled from the parasitical cesspit of Westminster?
Nah, i didn’t think so!
Maybe associating oneself with and working alongside the racist right-wing organisation known as The National Front does not count as making you a person of vile questionable integrity.
Och well, silly wee me, eh!
By the way, you can also add a triple figure of paedophiles to that Unionist Westminster list.
Don’t you just love being a nasty cybernat, eh!
Hypocrisy doesn’t even begin to cover it and they know it.
@Phil
If you pay attention you might even learn something though that might have spoiled your narrative.
@Phil Robertson
Rev Stu says
‘Er, you did notice that we acknowledged their belated action against Smart in the article, right?’
Oops Engage brain before opening mouth or, in this case, typing!
Thanks that made my Friday afternoon
C,mon Phil Robertson
Isn’t it nice of Stu to let you actually post your pish here(and mine)?
I know it’s fun to watch him blow your daft “arguments” out of the water but I’d like to point out that when real Scots attempt to communicate in MSM BTL we are often either banned (for nothing) or abused, or both. This is because they cant handle the truth/facts.
Stu is far more polite to you than you deserve.
Some folks don’t have his patience.
He doesn’t put up with pish from his own side either.
Has anyone noticed it’s always our side that has to be reasonable, we seem to always be the ones on the back foot defending a perfectly legitimate political position in the face of appalling abuse by everything that is right wing
I don’t even like the terms right wing or left wing really
thing is “WE” are constantly trying to find ways for our opponents to be more civilised
That can’t be right, the Unionists are fighting a war but they also make the rules and we try to abide by them
They then change their position on what the terms of the war should be
It’s not as if we have a Geneva Convention here and even if we did we know they’d ignore it
So what to do about our abusive cheating lying deceptive enemies of “Human Rights”
And there you have it No respect for Honesty Fairness or the “Biggy”…”Human Rights”
“Thou Shalt Have No Opinion Other Than Mine” Sayeth the Unionist
“Thou shalt be driven from the face of the Earth” Sayeth Gordon Brown
No matter how reasonable our side tries to be it will never be enough, we must agree, repent and show contrition, then and only then will they lower their abuse to vile sarcasm which will be a return to normal
See what we’ve become when that would be enough for Scotlands folk to accept as fair
My father used to say “Walk soft but carry a big stick”
“Bar my way and I’ll move you”
Scotland’s been threatened and bullied for a long time
I’m amazed at how bloody peaceful we are in the face of it
Not advocating, merely pointing out, we’re not the bad guys here
They know,and I know,that the internet for all its faults and penchants for abuse,is the only democratic forum within which supporters of independence have a voice,and can disseminate information.Heaven help us if we had to rely on mainstream media.
Is this the opening salvo in conducting a restriction on how it is used,tying in with the abolition of human rights?
They have to try and shut us up somehow,as we have become too powerful for their liking
Doug Daniel at 2.33.
Well said that man.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
26 June, 2015 at 2:33 pm
The Mail claims it was written for them and republished on the SNP website. As yet there’s no evidence to disprove that and the SNP haven’t challenged it.
In media terms is it still counted as “exclusive” ? – even if Nicola retains rights and can send and publish it anywhere she likes. Or is the Mail adding a little hype ?
Well,there is reasons people get angry, it happens. However, there are loonies on both sides as we all know and many more on theirs who are not just loonies they are foaming at the mouth, why?
Because they are getting deliberately fired up daily by the outrageous English right wing press.
As a mention, Andrew Neil makes my skin crawl,what A PROUD Scot he is! The BBC is so full of others just like him.
It truly makes me sick, they are scum.
Phil Robertson says: much in bitter tone
Phil many of us are aware of the situation. After Kez denied knowing of Mr Smart in Holyrood questions (even through she was a follower on twitter), the glacial and hidden Labour internal process is supposed to have ‘suspended’ Mr Smart. We await with baited breath and each passing month for any substantive action. The other question is does a person have to be named in the chamber before Labour bother to stop re-tweeting their abuse and act against them.
Well said Peter A Bell.
Have a nice break Derek Bateman, are you a double agent? Who for? …-
This is a sign that they ( unionist propagandists )are really worried . Why else would they give so much coverage , albeit negative , to Scotland and its people ?
And the more they berate us , deride us , trash us and our economy , the stronger we become .
Remember the old adage : What doesn’t kill us makes us –F****** angry and determined to beat the b****** .
Everyone
I know it’s OT and I’ll get shit rom Stu if I’ve messed up this link, but can anyone remember who it is on WOS that has Lyme disease?
I can’t but I found this link to t.co:
O/T slightly, re the MSM’s other talking point – the disaster of oil – The National quotes Stuart Haszeldine, OBE, Professor of Geology at Edinburgh University, in an article against fracking.
link to thenational.scot
During the Indyref, Prof Haszeldine gave a great talk on the wealth of energy in Scotland beyond oil. Good to refresh the memory as the doomed oil is endlessly paraded in the MSM.
link to youtube.com
“Er, you did notice that we acknowledged their belated action against Smart in the article, right?”
Yes, I did read the grudging paragraph and the indirect link to the story.
However the main point is that you choose a “news” item from 2012 to make your point rather than a 2015 story. I’d have thought that if you are moralising on current behaviour then leading with the 2015 item would have been more honest.
It’s a bit like moralising about austerity and running a £200 underspend on your budget.
Bob Mack – you are spot on. They cannot control it so they want to put a stop to it. The internet is no more abusive than Life itself there are some people you will never change but you do not have to take them seriously when you know they are wrong and abusive. However the internet also allows people to check the accuracy of the MMS and any others who would hope to delude the people with false information or make them believe in what they want them to believe in. Stuart has been doing a fantastic job with his exposes. In my opinion the internet was a crucial factor in the 45% vote and the 56 Scottish MPs vote. Obviously the Establishment does not like that and will use all of their power to try to put a stop to it. King Canute springs to mind!! But let us not forget that at the moment they have the power and will use it. We do not have to appease them though.
tartanarse, GHGraham is the poster who has lyme disease if memory serves…open to correction
Phil Robertson says:
It’s a bit like moralising about austerity and running a £200 underspend on your budget.
I assume you are joking. (Apart from also wrong on quantities).
If your not then I am really interested in how picking an example from a 2 years ago, regarding on line abuse, is ‘like’ managing a budget efficiently in a greatly squeezed financial environment.
JournoBrits what are they like?
Liars everyone!
It wouldn’t be so much fun. Honourable ‘this’, ‘honourable’ that. When they can’t stand one another.
Maybe it is about time we took action too? This may be an interesting link on how to report abuse and hate online: link to standuptohate.blogspot.co.uk
From Mr Daisley’s article:
“Journalists are not the enemy. They are not part of a cabal or a conspiracy”
Erm..yes, many of them are I’m afraid, and I’m not even paranoid. They prove it themselves every single day. They may not be a traditional cabal – they probably don’t have secret meetings in darkened rooms – but they most certainly are members of an informal, unspoken conspiracy (based on sloppy ‘journalism’ that kids on a school paper would be ashamed of and toeing the establishment line because that’s the easiest thing to do) against everything Scottish and the SNP in particular.
It’s a kind of conspiracy by default – many of them are just plain lazy and prefer to collect their paycheck by chiming in with all the rest rather than actually, you know, doing their jobs – no Woodwards or Bernsteins they!
If they weren’t, there would not be such unison in the attacks, nor so much recycling without question of each other’s ‘stories’. In the old days, The Times, for example, would have been delighted to prove that a rival paper had lied or got it wrong but no-one in the MSM seems to know how to check a story anymore. There are, of course, honourable exceptions and thank goodness for them.
The Stephen Daisley article was good in parts but fatally devoid of perspective or any attempt to measure the problem of abuse across all political parties. This alone raises questions regarding his agenda.
Aye these cyberNats are a scary lot. I personally can no longer look in the mirror.
link to youtube.com
I’m still chuckling at ‘pound shop Charles Bronson’
People still denigrate WoS, and I truly can’t understand it, as the Rev runs a tight ship. I was quite annoyed when we got a row for all the inventive names for the newspaper known as Scotland’s champion !
Ah but Rev its alright for them to do it but if we so much as let out a squeak they are all over us like a bad rash.
its the onion way and you know where they can shove it, unfortunately it will not stop them as they have nothing else to give except SNP bad,cybernats bad, pointy finger its no fair ma ba im no playing,dont see much in that agenda to merit voting for them.
The bizarre thing is if you were to do a survey of the nutters on our side i would put money on most of them being very disillusioned ex Labour voters appalled at the direction they see Labour move in and well you cant blame them for being a bit angry now they know the truth and that for decades they have been sold a lemon.
Come join us Labour party supporters the ideology is not in a name ,its comes from the people and the people have decided the Labour party no longer deserves our support as they have cast the ideology aside to chase a neo liberal agenda,they dont care about you or your family they only care about getting rich of the backs of us taxpayers.
@ Nana
Great video Nana. Looks like we really are in Indyref2. What’s good is seeing all these stars of the campaign again!
Cappela @ 3.43
I watched Prof Hazedines video last year Cappela and it would make you weep when you consider we have thrown away, I said when Cameron refused to fund the Kincardine power stations efforts to succeed in carbon capture that it was done to avoid an independent Scotland being able to use the technology for its own benefit, his attitude was if you think we’ll support YOUR future you’ve got another think coming, for the sake of sweetie money he made sure Scotland would be an “also ran” in the CC stakes because by the time we get independence and can fund it ourselves someone else (probably the USA) will have cracked the technology and they’ll get the huge income from selling CC power stations instead of us, never mind the vast wealth we could have had from taking the continents co2 and burying in our exhausted oil wells!
We are truly a country filled with idiots,
mind you I’m still to be convinced about the idea to do “controlled” burning of the huge coal field in the upper reaches of the Forth.
Aa dinne fancy seein the Forth reaching boiling point.
I used to work in London.
At drinks one night the polite English boss stood with myself and another Scot and said “I love how you two guys get on so well, but some of the things you call each other.. its pretty harsh!”
We both looked at each other and laughed. I replied “Tom, theres only 2 things you need to know about Scotland and language. The greatest compliment you can be given is being called “A good C**t but the worst thing you can be called is “A Right c*nt”
My colleague laughed while the boss wandered off muttering “I just dont get it”.
Nichola
Don’t do twitter—are you not busy enough!!
Political Parties if they do should only deal with named persons
Wait 2 days before responding to Mail frenzy. Don’t need to have a knee jerk reaction as we know they talk mince.
Thank you Nana Smith , I have never seen that before and it fair cheered me up – what with SNP accused articles , the man with the strangled vowels in the Daily Telegraph and the usual crap from the DM and DE ,I was feeling a little pissed off.
@ john king
When the accounting is done to show how much Scotland contributes to the UK, a list of lost opportunity costs needs to be added.
You’re spot on Rev, the unionists will never agree to deal with online abuse by their own, why well because they do most of the abusing, and their buddies in the press and media, would never highlight it anyway.
The media game is rigged, we can’t win.
The biggest problem with Daisley’s article, by a street, is that it appears to assume that only aggressive ‘cybernats’ need to wind their necks in.
Unionists, however, never speak intemperately on social media or anywhere else.
Blunts what otherwise is reasonable enough; we shouldn’t be going about swearing at each other, in person or online.
Cameron has a massive problem with Europe and it is certain he won’t get enough from Europe to satisfy the Eurosceptics. All he can try is another “Vow”, which UKIP and some of the press will smoke out immediately.
So, what better way to deflect his anti-euro contingent away from his predicament than to remind them about those nasty jocks? First demonise them, they act tough and beat them up a bit.
Perfect.
Level playing field time. If the meeja want to repeat on air vile abusive tweets then they’re just as responsible as the original tweeter.
No mention of Ian Smart by the over-florid and pinkly-leering host of the aforementioned Daily Potlicks. Probably because ‘everyone knows about the Tory and Slab trolls’ so they have to bring the ‘Cybernats’ into the equation in order to muddy the murky depths even further. Cue pointy fingers; ‘they’re all the same!’.
The strangest part of all of this is that when I read WoS, The Dug, BC or a host of other ‘independence leaning’ blogs, all I read are thoughtful, self-effacing comments from people much like myself.
Tar. Brush. Everyone. Same. Meeja? Useless!
O/T
1st Court date announced
link to scottishindependence.com
O/T
link to scottishindependence.com
Here’s a thought, they could call it “the vow”
A crucial question Stu:
Why have you ignored the mail’s front page story about the Scottish bridge that’s killing dogs on a mass scale and making it look like suicide?
Every State has ‘onside’ journalists, does he think that the UK doesn’t? Controlling the media is essential for such an unequal state as the UK.
@Capella It brought back some memories for sure.
@Dorothy says “I was feeling a little pissed off”
Me too Dorothy!
Thanks Nana for posting that video. Eventually the Daily Mail readers will naturally pass away over the years never to be replaced by younger ones who will be tweeting their four letter word thoughts online. Now that is a thought.
I like it. Anything that shines spot lights on the whole mess. The main thing is that people are not silenced by anyone, anywhere. “Cybernat” is as pernicious and ruthless an attempt to dehumanise and smear by unionists as it gets, in peace time at any rate. Do we need to go through all the names and terms used in the west to dehumanise people over the decades.
Cybernats are people too, doesn’t really work. Although if the BBC had any decency or integrity whatsoever, it would ask their talking heads like BrilloPad Neil not to use it, the ghastly BBC scotch cringer of the decade that he is.
Free speech for all ?
Except some folk
No everybody
Not folk we don’t like though ?
Well, be fair they have to agree with us
Definitely not the Scotch no matter what they say
Even if they agree to total domination and subjugation ?
No, they have to agree to going back to being insulted the way it’s always been…Eh, and say sorry as well, a lot
That should do …..For Now
Brilliant work again Rev!
You are a Rev-elation!
It seems that hating any party looking to stand up for a fair share of the nation’s wealth but be targeted and unjustly branded with all their might, while IS are slaughtering people across the continents.
Good to know these guys have their priorities right!
@ Nana Smith
Whats a “by order” court hearing?
I think this constant attack on ‘cybernats’ is a direct response to success of social media in providing a MSM bypass.
I see the idea as having merit and is a good suggestion.
pseudonyms provide people with freedom to say things they would not be able to say if using there real name for all sorts of legitimate reasons. With this freedom comes responibility not to abuse it.
That said there are some right sensitive souls oot there
I’m a tad eyebrowraisy that nobody has posted this link from 18 months ago…
link to youtube.com
From yesterday’s (June 25) Scottish Daily Mail:
“Yesterday, after the Mail handed a dossier highlighting cybernat abuse to the party hierarchy, the First Minister said:….”
“a dossier”, huh… Was that ‘dossier’ preceded by the adjective, ‘dodgy’?
What is the highlighted “cybernat abuse” contained within the dossier?
As this dossier was “handed…to the party hierarchy” and a statement was then made by the First Minister, can/could an FoI request be made as to the information contained within the said dossier?
As someone who is a pro-Scottish independence, pro-SNP and anti-unionism commenter on social media, and thus smeared by the UK media as being a ‘cybernat’, I wish to know if any of my comments are termed as, and given as an example of “cybernat abuse” in the dossier constructed by the Daily Mail. Can I send an FoI request to obtain this information? Would it be forthcoming?… Anyone know?
Don’t use Twitter.
Don’t read the Daly Mail.
Don’t read the Daily Record.
No problems.
Hazel Lewry sent me this song many moons ago.
link to youtube.com
@John King
Hey John, I’m no expert but found this for you.
•A hearing by order. We do not use the term “by order” in a strict sense but lawyers familiar with practice in the Court of Session sometimes use it as a shorthand for any hearing ordered by the Court to consider further procedure.
link to scottish-land-court.org.uk
And heres anither wan
link to youtube.com
Hi Ronnie.
You’re speed reading this page, iye?
I posted Yew Choob at 6:05 pm
“I’m a tad eyebrowraisy that nobody has posted this link from 18 months ago…”
Today’s performance by that loathesome creature Brillo Pad surely set some sort of record for unbalanced journalism and the way in which he treated Tasmina with constant interruptions was a disgrace.
Perhaps to achieve some balance he could run an item next week on the charming compliments directed at Scotland and The Scots in the Comments Sections of The Mail, Express and Telegraph.
Still – it’s not all bad news folks – Aldi have got Macaroni Pies.
The vast majority of the media is unionist, or more accurately, British nationalist, so the internet, plus The National and Sunday Herald, is the obvious outlet for pro-independence comment. The “traditional” media is still strong enough to make outrageous claims and, largely, get away with it. Thankfully its days are numbered.
Lidl are doing packs of 3 Bells’ macaroni pies.
Eac to his or her own…
From twitter. I believe they really are that dumb
Scottish Labour have just sent out a 51-page ‘dossier’ to the press with names and tweets of people who’ve used the word ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ or swore.
Eac = Each…
Thanks Nana
nice to see you back.
The whole argument about “cybernattery” is one area where no response whatsoever is the best reaction. Responding to it gives it oxygen
they attack because, they are unable to defend their own position.
Ronnie Anderson @6.35
I realised that I cant even claim to be a cybernat the best I can hope to be is a
link to youtube.com
Thanks Brian and Ronnie – the cybernat song is great and I had forgotten its existence.
I’m off to listen to Stanley Odd , my mood is improving by the minute!
Brian Doonthetoon @6:05
An amusing ditty which provoked the following charming response from a blameless unionist. (Asterisks are mine -because I’d hate one of those nice reporters to call me a cybernat)
“It’s sad that your shrivelled up c**t that cannot afford to kick out mongs and expect us working taxpayers to pay for it? Dream on with your fringe party f**k face.”
Illiterate, crude and personal but obviously it’s just banter and we shouldn’t take it personally, now should we?
Or possibly a vile cybernat who just got a bit lost and thought they were targeting a Labour supporting luvvie?
Actually, I’ve gone beyond taking it personally, even beyond anger, and now I just wonder what it must be like to have a soul so corroded by hatred and bitterness that this is what you think of as suitable public comment on a harmless satire.The hearts and minds of such people must be very ugly and unhappy places indeed.
The SNP are in government, ffs!
Why don’t they use that power?
Will we have to suffer the Irish experience to become independent?
Nana @ 6:49,
I presume the reason that the indie side doesn’t reciprocate is that we’d need to hire a lorry to deliver it.
Thanks John, love the ba-nana song!
@ John King 7.04 ("Tractor" - Ed) ,("Quizmaster" - Ed) and other nasty stuff, deserting the Cybernatties, you,ll be optimized lol.
@ BrianDTT they IT lessons ur payin aff,ave optimized John King, ah hope it no to painfull Irene i,ll never forgive me.
Evening guys. Hope all are well. I believe there is a double agenda here. Everyone here knows ur gonna get as much truth from MSM as u will compassion from a Tory minister!!! Everyone knows that the only real platform people like us on here is social media and the Internet. The truth is out there and the commitee of 300, NWO Bilderbergh group etc don’t want us knowing it. The whole cybernat nonsense is just one element of it. Other examples being Russian mafia spying on people via their computers and Issues recruitment online. North Korea going to war with Sony. Death threats against Chloe Madeley or whatever her name is. This is the only vehicle we have for now and they will do everything they can to stop it. They are gonna just keep adding restrictions against particular groups until they cover everyone. The buzz word is extremism. I don’t think the msm lies work anymore. Unfortunately the sheep have already made their minds up and won’t see the truth. The best thing to do is ignore the bait offered by people like Phil Robertson and ignore their comments. They’re using us as bait. Rant over. Lol ????
I far as I’m concerned the MSM can take their collective head and stick it up their collective earse.
Whatever deal the political parties struck regarding online abuse the MSM would never play fair regarding it’s enforcement and reporting.
We know what a bunch of lying bastards they are, both the unionist parties and the MSM. I would rather take them head on than pander to their decit.
ISIS. Not issues. I’m pish at typing on my phone. Lol ????
The Moidart says – “Unfortunately the sheep have already made their minds up and won’t see the truth.”
Ah ha, but have the goats!
@Nana Smith at 6:49 pm
“From twitter. I believe they really are that dumb
Scottish Labour have just sent out a 51-page ‘dossier’ to the press with names and tweets of people who’ve used the word ‘(“Tractor” – Ed)’ or swore.”
That can’t be true, can it?… Can it…? I mean, FFS!… seriously?
Labour must be checking their own big list of names to see how many are actually their own ex-members..
@ Tartenarse
the Lyme disease guy is Graham H Graham – this is on his website:
link to ghgraham.com
PaulTgheist…you’ve goat to be kidding. Lol ????
With the huge support that the SNP now enjoys in this country and as the third largest party in the UK it is a bit of a misnomer to be implying that people who are indulging in cybertwattery are in any way indicative of the SNP or their supporters; try as they might it will not wash with anyone.
Je Ne Suis Pas vile cybernat!
@Dal Riata well from what I have read so far it seems they have indeed sunk lower than we already thought they could.
This from twitter…
Labour’s dossier on “Scotland’s nastiest cybernats” is embargoed until Sunday so can’t share in full. It’s all just a bit weird really.
What to say, but absolutely agree.
All this abusive cybernat stuff is patent nonsense. Their are nutters in every political debate, no matter what it is. Take a wee look around the web ,and you rapidly find much worse examples, than are used within the pro indy camp.
Of course, the unionists, despite having more abusive nutters anyway, do not need to rely on the likes of twitter to abuse the SNP and Scotland. They have at their disposal the mainstream media, running, as for example was seen this week, newspapers which refer to the new 56 SNP MP’s as ‘National Socialists’ (Nazis).
What the SNP/Scot Gov should do is as before condemn abuse from all sides, and THAT IS ALL, because abuse is not a problem exclusive to independence, it affects all political discourse on social media.
@ The Moidart – Who? Moi!
We won’t get anywhere with those hypocrites.
We must not be afraid to call a quizmaster a quizmaster and a tractor a tractor.
A majority of the people of Scotland can now see through their lies and are now on our side.
Nana…. Unfortunately there are hundreds of thousands of graves all over the middle East that prove how low the Labour party will go. And nearer to home. You only have to Google water fluoridation to find that out. Xx
It’s been a bit disappointing to see how the SNP slobbered around that story about the million quid being held back from the Royal Family (that’s how it was portrayed in the press). Nicola getting involved in that was ridiculous.
Also disappointing to see her take up that invite to write for the Mail. She should have ignored them.
The SNP is in government in Scotland and in the Westminster Parliament they hold 56 of the 59 Scottish seats, yet they appear to have started to dance to the Westminster tune. Allowing that wee bloke in the Speaker’s chair to wag a finger at them for applauding did them no favours at all. I half expected him to come at them with a ruler to smack their fingers.
I’d like to see the SNP ‘man up’ a bit and tell the unionists to piss off with their propaganda and phoney Westminster traditions.
tartanarse,
It’s me who was bitten by a tick & was infected with the pathogen Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme disease). I saw your Lyme link. Thank you. It’s a web site I’m already aware of.
But due to NHS Tayside withdrawing any further treatment, I’ve already book a flight to Washington DC next Saturday to get treatment there.
Kind of shocking that I have to leave my country to get medical treated but it’s that or I stay here with the possibility of ending up brain damaged or dead. I know, either would qualify me for a leadership role in Labour’s North British Accounting Unit but I just don’t fancy a career in back stabbing.
I hesitate to post on this subject as it is so pathetic, so vacuous and transparent. This demonising of SNP supporters and Yes voters is the oldest form of propaganda. We are at war with the media and the establishment and they are portraying us all as raging beasts.
The Japanese soldiers got the treatment, the German soldiers, Russians. Absolutely pathetic. It is an insult to the intelligence to hear this tired, one siddd old snish being reheated again and again.
Stu great idea but I wonder if they’ll take it on board?
Meanwhile the orchestrated attacks by the MSM against the SNP have one main aim in mind, imo, and that is to influence the 55% of the electorate that voted NO in the Indyref last year. We can’t afford to win the next Indyref with 50% + 1. We’ll have to push that figure up to around 60% to prevent a backlash from those who will continue to vote NO. If the MSM keep this up I reckon we’ll struggle to achieve our goal.
We’re being bombarded left, right and centre. Whilst we’re focused on the Daily Mail the Daily Record is ‘at it’ again: Four articles in two days attempting to totally undermine the SNP.
The first, ‘New SNP MP Tommy Sheppard urges his own Party to let CalMac continue to run West Coast Ferry Services’, goes on to mention the NHS discussion between Tommy and Chunky Mark. However it’s reported in such a manipulative manner by insinuating that Tommy’s referring to NHS Scotland rather than CM referring to NHS England.
Next article …. sneaky SNP.
‘Slick? No, just a bit crude: Scottish Government accused of trying to sneak out bad news on oil revenue.’
‘Jackie Baillie said: “It’s ridiculous that the SNP tried to sneak this report out on the last day of Parliament. It’s clear they have put their own political interests ahead of industry concerns. Last week, they trooped through the lobbies with the extreme right wing of the Tory party to vote for FFA. It’s as clear as day now that they knew the policy would be a disaster for Scotland – the SNP Government’s own figures prove it.”
Then the Daily Record publishes two ‘Cybernat’ articles. The first has NS publicly admitting that there are SNP ‘trolls’. This is followed up with their biased article.
‘Nicola Sturgeon vows to stamp down on Cybernat internet abusers as she urges fellow politicians to ‘stop feeding the trolls.’ ….. Will stamp down on SNP members involved in online abuse. She added: “Frankly the level of abuse directed at me online on any given day would make people’s hair stand on end. I choose to ignore it.”
‘David Clegg says Sturgeon’s response to cybernats needs to change from “there is abuse on both sides” to “we’ve got a particular problem with a small minority that we’re going to deal with.”
…The SNP have a big problem with the cybernats … It is an unfortunate fact that Scottish nationalism seems to attract more than its fair share of these weirdos….
.. The boss of one polling company told me the only time they’d seen online abuse like that, which followed their work on the referendum, was when they published research into anti-Semitic attitudes for the Jewish chronicle…
Sturgeon’s stock response needs to change from “there is abuse on both sides” to “we’ve got a particular problem with a small minority that we’re going to deal with.”
This is the video of Andrew Neil ‘discussing’ the vile cybernats earlier today (at the end of the programme). Hope it works!
link to bbc.co.uk
From yesterday’s (June 25) Scottish Daily Mail:
“Lord Advocate Frank Mulholland has also warned that people who post obscene comments may find themselves facing criminal prosecution – exactly as if they had said the same in public, adding: “If it’s a crime on the street, it’s a crime online.””
Right you are then Lord Advocate Frank Mulholland, that’s good, fine words and all that. So, when the Daily Mail says that you, ‘warned that people who post obscene comments…’, it is fair to assume you mean *all and any* people, not just a select few, yes? If not, then that would be persecution rather than prosecution, don’t you agree?
Anyway, if you’re still there, Mr. Mulholland, what is your opinion of the following tweet posted by Katie Hopkins?:
“Little sweaty jocks, sending us Ebola bombs in the form of sweaty Glaswegians just isn’t cricket. Scottish NHS sucks.”
That must surely qualify for an obscene comment, does it not? If someone was to voice that obscenity on the street they could quite possibly be prosecuted for it, don’t you agree? And, as you say, “If it’s a crime on the street, it’s a crime online.”, the person, one Katie Hopkins, who composed that obscene comment against Scottish people online should, therefore, be prosecuted, don’t you agree?…..
….Wait. What’s this…?
“Despite the petition [on change.org: To charge Katie Hopkins over her vile racist tweets regarding Scotland] gathering more than 20,000 signatures calling for her arrest, the police found no evidence of criminality following a five-month inquiry.
A spokesman for Police Scotland said: ‘An investigation has been carried out and on this occasion no criminality has been established.'”
Ahhh….
GH Graham. Very best of luck to you sir. I did have to laugh at your last paragraph. You’re some man. Hopefully you will be back to taking more of the absolutely beautiful photographs very soon my friend
The man who might have could have been our national composer:
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
@ Macnakamura
Bang on. Write as if an undecided voter is reading.
I want an inquiry into the 50 dogs who have lept to their death from a Scots bridge….
……were their owners no voters?
That’s where I’d start
@Phil Robertson says: 26 June, 2015 at 2:17 pm:
“You are bit behind the times with a 2012 example. More up to date would have been
link to heraldscotland.com
Hilarious! Absolutely hilarious!
I nearly wet myself and couldn’t stop laughing at your 14:17 posted idiocy, Phil, (and it’s now 20:45. The Labour party should have thrown Smart out many years ago for the out and out abuse that vile person has spouted at independence supporters on Labour Party websites like Labourhame.
That vile apology for a human being has been writing such vile abuse of all kinds, but particularly by calling independence supporting people NAZIs, on official Labour Party sites.
Are you seriously suggesting the Labour party hierarchy had no idea he was doing so before Nicola demanded they did something about him, before the nation, in parliament?
Any decent party would have disassociated themselves from such real vile abuse years before they did so under the exposure and pressure of it being raised in parliament?
How on earth could they do before than as there have been equally vile abuse issuing from Labour Party grandees sitting on red leather while wearing skunk tipped robes. I don’t need to detail them for you as they are in the public domain and even reported in Hansard.
It needs no sponsorship from such a numptie as Phil Robertson to back it up – everyone, and their uncles, knows the abuse hurled at the SNP by Labour Party Leaders and Labour Party OAPs in the HOL Old Folks Home for £300 per day benefit recipients.
The Rough Bounds at 8.31
You are doing what they want you to do. You are attacking your own side on the basis of extremely biased MSM reporting.
They’d just love us to behave like hooligans. We won’t.
Do you fondly imagine that if we somehow do it differently we’ll get a good press?
As I posted earlier the “cybernattery ” issue should be ignored. The only people who are affected by it don’t vote for us anyway and informed people know its a load of bollocks
@Macnakamura says: 26 June, 2015 at 2:48 pm:
“We could make a start on here:
Cut out the slagging of people for weight, girth, coiffure, accent, manner of speech, dress sense and physical imperfections.”
Oh! Come on! Macnakamura, Get real, if someone were to call me, “a wee auld fat, speccy eyed, baldie hieded bachle”, I wouldn’t be offended one wee bit. The reason is it just happens to be true. If they called me a Cybernat I’d be honoured and quite pleased with myself. To be so accused means I’d really got up the nose of some Establishment Unionist supporter who has no reasoned argument to offer. They thus have fallen back upon vile abuse.
But if they called me a NAZI, or an insurgent or any of their other brainless nastiness, to my face, they just might find themselves with a swift punch up the bracket and to hell with the consequences. (and, BTW, if I ever have had to resort to a swift punch up the bracket there are few who have ever picked themselves up for the second round. Like wee Scotland I always have punched way above my own weight.
Je suis un proud cybernat!
link to sites.google.com
This from Daisley
journalists pronounced lackeys of a Labour establishment that, despite eight years of SNP government and 95% of Scotland’s Westminster seats, they are convinced still exists.
should actually read
journalists pronounced lackeys of a Labour establishment that, inspite of eight years of SNP government and 95% of Scotland’s Westminster seats, they know still exists.
I hope I’m wrong, but I fear this response is a mis-step by Nicola Sturgeon. No matter how strict, she and the SNP will NEVER satisfy the Daily or Daisley Mails of this world but may end up isolating or alienating perfectly good supporters – which is of course of the objects of the entire cybernat campaign.
Perhaps if the SNP pursue a strategy similar to that outlined in your article there may be a way back, but as things stand on this front the party is on a hiding to nothing.
Just be the most polite, respectful and patient Nationalist in real life. Thatbwill totally nullify these pointless stories.
Hopefully?
I must admit that this is starting to piss me off, the SNP failing to get a handle on this situation.
It was like in the indyref where they were petrified to say anything that might be somewhat negative.
When ‘cybernats’ arise in parliament or the media, they have to rebuff this a hell of a lot more than what they are at the moment.