Missing: one plot
We can only assume the No campaign and media are in a growing panic about the imminent TV showdown between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling or something. Even by the high previous standards of insanity from the UK side of the referendum debate, this week has seen something of a disintegration in sanity.
Apart from the usual flood of mad scare stories, we’ve had papers like the Scotsman, Daily Record and Press & Journal promoting a ludicrous poll of a couple of hundred hand-picked expats. We’ve had the Guardian’s Martin Kettle competing with the Mail’s Simon Heffer for the most embarrassingly moronic vision of a post-independence future yet committed to print. (This time, a Yes vote sparks a new civil war in Ireland.)
And then there’s this:
Heaven forfend, of course, that the delightful “Vote No Borders” campaign – which appears to be role-playing with “Better Together” in a depiction of a “bad cop, bad cop with learning difficulties” routine – could be attempting a crude and poorly-disguised politicisation of sport by choosing this particular moment to release a campaigning video about an international sporting event, the point (such as it is) of which applies equally to the Commonwealth Games as to the Olympics.
We’re just at a loss to work out what on Earth they’re even attempting to say. Are they suggesting that the referendum vote SHOULD be a matter for “ethnic Scots”? Their campaign has never previously mentioned the plight of those of us born in Scotland but currently living outwith its borders, so why the sudden concern?
Do we know what VNB’s suggested franchise is? How recently would one have had to live in Scotland? What would qualify as “Scottish enough” to be given the vote? Would those dastardly foreign sorts who’ve had the temerity to come and live in Scotland for the last 10 or 20 or 30 years be allowed to take part?
There are no answers to be found on their website. We’ll drop them a line and see if we can get an explanation (we’re not holding our breath). In the meantime, we’re just going to sit back and watch the No campaign continue ploughing through what appears to be a 4 x 100 metres shark-jumping relay.
only True Scots – does that mean the liars of Better Together are being denied their vote – surely some mistake…
Just a minor point – Scotland did not have any Olympians – there were Scottish People who took part in team GB and did GB proud but not for Scotland per se…
God bless the leader of the pedants revolt – Which Tyler!
that is the most ludicrous video I’ve seen so far, and I have to agree I am at a complete loss as to what point they are trying to convey. Its been obvious for a while now that the NO camp has been clutching at straws but by the look of that video they have run out of straws to clutch at.
No doubt its preping the coming teamGB media shit storm over YES win, rUK didn’t get the vote so invalid, doesn’t count, undemocratic, nob.orders.com City boys fund ukok legal action. Progressive liberal Guardian printed yesterday, “Don’t give the bastards a bawbee.”
There’s quite a lot of rich mad people in teamGB.
Malcolm Offord’s quite annoyed at not being able to vote in the referendum, isn’t he?
It appears they are trying to guilt trip (emotional blackmail) the entire population of Scotland into voting no because they are trying to say that Scots living elsewhere don’t get to vote (sports person based elsewhere) or would vote NO (hand picked expats in US poll).
Truly desperate times for the unionists
New tagging device being trialled in London to check if subject takes alcohol to be adjusted to check for Scottishness.
Why not? As crazy as any other story around now!
I keep waiting for their roots to really take hold and for them to become something other than the weak piss dribble of pasted crap and clichéd, hackneyed, retread bogeyman tosh they seem unable to rise above – after all, they’re still getting thousands donated.
But no, they seem to be truly amateur. Their FB page has it this morning that a No means we’ll be condemning tragedy-hit furriners to death.
Anyway, you’re a racist, what do you know?
It just occured to me, out of curiosity, are the actors used in these videos based in Scotland, and thus eligible to vote?
I predict that this will be Darling’s main line of attack in the televised debate. God help us all.
Words fail me.
except
just
“bollox”
Time perhaps to revisit the ‘Not Vote No Borders’ videos again, not sure they were widely seen?
link to youtube.com
Raising the London Olympics in Scotland is not the brightest think to do either. As far I remember a lot of money was shaved off the rest of the coutry to pay for it. Indeed when you compare it, the Commonwealth games recieved very little or no central government cash & the Olympics did. Also the promised spin off benefits in tourism etc failed to materialise either.
So I would let them keep on digging their hole….
2012 London Scottish medalists
Sir Chris Hoy Gold Cycling, Team Sprint, Keirin
Timothy Baillie Gold Canoeing Slalom, C-2 team
Katherine Grainger Gold Rowing, Double Sculls
Andy Murray Gold Tennis Mens’ Singles, Mixed doubles
Scott Brash Gold Equestrian, Team Jumping
Luke Patience Silver Sailing, Mens 470
David Florence Silver Canoeing Slalom, C-2 team
Michael Jamieson Silver Swimming 200m Breaststroke
Laura Bartlett Bronze Field Hockey
Emily Maguire Bronze Field Hockey
Are they attempting to imply that only one of the above lives in Scotland and can therefore vote?
link to rampantscotland.com
I think I need to watch that again after a fortifying can of Irn-Bru. What was that all about?? Seriously, what was that all about??
Do they propose that anyone born in Scotland but currently residing at elsewhere should have a vote? Or is the proposal that if you would qualify for an Olympic place you should get a vote?
I’m struggling here. Where is the sense in either scenario?
What do you say to a bad cop with learning difficulties?
Morning Sergeant!
Could it be trying to say we should vote No because Scotland would have a shite team in a future Olympics?
New Zealand’s incomparable (except to Edwin Moses) shot put Queen Valerie Adams is off back to her home base in? Switzerland.
To vote in NZ general elections you must have set foot in the country some time after the last GE. My wife and I are eligible for eg from a visit end 2012. However she and we will never be eligible for a local election as we don’t live there. Government is very flat in NZ, local and national only. No votes for the currently in spirit only economic union with Australia.
The rules on referenda are variable.
I don’t know anybody who thinks Val or us should be able to vote locally. I’m not even sure I should be voting in the coming GE as we haven’t lived there in more than 20 years and it feels presumptuous.
I’m sure many expat Scots feel the same. Ignore the bitter ones who don’t. I used to be one, left aged 6 in 1972 when my family emigrated to NZ. If I had not left NZ why should I have a right to vote in the referendum based on birth and 2 years of primary education? How could I rationally vote?
We moved here in time to vote for the first reconvened Scottish Parliament. Our eldest was one of the ‘Scottish’ schoolkids who lined the Royal Mile. She waved and smiled at Saint Donald of Dewar who waved back (young, pretty and blond the eldest). He had no idea she was only Scottish in the sense of living here and through her father.
Rev…did you cover the British Business centre in Labours big Hoose in Glasgow?
On Thursday, Business Secretary Vince Cable will make a speech at the temporary “British Business House” at Glasgow’s City Chambers, located in George Square in the heart of the city. Billed as “an immersive brand experience of the very best of British excellence and innovation”, its aim is to build on the success of the British Business Embassy at London 2012, nurturing UK trade and investment.
A short walk away, also in the city centre, is Scotland House, which opened today. Described as “a hub to celebrate Scotland’s sporting success, culture and business potential”, it is difficult to view it as anything other than a direct rival to its British counterpart.
link to independent.co.uk
Maybe the point they’re trying to make is that Scotland would never have been as successful in the Olympics as most of the Scottish athletes were not living in Scotland? But then would that even matter? Wouldn’t they still be eligible to compete for Scotland if they didn’t live here? Perhaps the VNB tactic is now simply to confuse people into voting no?
Doesn’t this video highlight the fact that our athletes are forced to train outside Scotland because we don’t have the resources here (under our wonderful union) to support them?
Plenty of our athletes support independence, they know that they have a far greater chance of being selected for the Olympics than if they were part of a pool of UK athletes which is 10 times bigger than a Scottish one.
My Slovene girlfriend is very vote No and as a constitutional law expert, she has a lot of long expensive legal challenges in the pipeline. Here she is explaining to Ian Davidson MP why Yes win negotiations will be illegal, in Slovene and international law.
link to youtube.com
“My Slovene girlfriend is very vote No and as a constitutional law expert”
Do I need to issue a reminder about the “saying people are other people without evidence” rule?
This neatly sums up my reaction to VNB’s latest offering: link to youtube.com
Oh and the Kettle piece in the Grauniad is just hilarious in how out of touch it is. The fantasy that the Labour party could be electable in 2016 after they have burnt so much political capital on the altar of BT is just risible.
As many BTL are pointing out it just shows how utterly out of touch of realities here in Scotland the London media elite are. Libby Brooks gets it, because she left the bubble and spent some time touring Scotland speaking to ordinary folk. She perhaps needs to have a word with Kettle.
Regardless of the referendum result SLAB will be slaughtered in the GE next year. The bloodletting that will result from this will make them even less electable. Can you imagine how bitter the SLAB MPs are going to be? especially the ones dumped by the electorate next May. Gracious in defeat they will not be.
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”
Napoleon Bonaparte 😀
@Macandroid
That list just goes to show how pish the argument is, about all these Commonwealth medals showing we are better competing together. Scottish athletes would not get the same opportunities to make the UK 2016 team due to the sheer number of English. Same goes for Wales and NI. Only separately can our medal winners hope to build on their successes
heedtracker says:
The referendum is a legal one, agreed by both sides.
Is International law to overthrow the result only because the YES side wins? What would that mean for the UN charter?
How big Bully’s would rUK look Internationally?
How could they ever push democratic process anywhere in the world, after ( if ) they defeated a democratic process, Internationally?
Their world standing would be shown up for what it is, a con.
Any notion that “ethnic” Scots who live outwith Scotland could be included in this referendum is just preposterous.
First, who maintains a list of “ehtnic” Scots? How would we determine who should and who shouldn’t be allowed to vote?
Second, why would we want to go down this route? The referendum should be a matter for those who live in Scotland and who will have to live with the consequences. Any other proposition just does not stand up.
Third, if we were doing this on ehtnicity, presumably non-Scottish people living in Scotland would be excluded. These people are on the electoral role, but by some yet to be defined mechanism we would need to exclude them. Can you imagine the (justifiable) howls of protest from BT if this had been suggested?
They demean themselves by putting this stuff out. But I suspect they don’t care – they have long since lost their self-respect. And that is what defines them.
And the point of that video is?
Athletes have always traveled for training purposes such as for high altitude training which you cannot possibly do in the UK (high altitude is classed at over 5000ft).
Mo Farah’s main residency is in the USA but he still competes for Team GB. Pretty sure that residency status means he can’t vote in UK elections. I’ll stand corrected, if that’s not the case though.
Totally agree Mary. Looked at from a reasonable perspective this video just highlights how imbalanced the union actually is.
Idiots.
I’m sure they can’t be worried about the Salmond v Darling debate because the media will already have their story ready for the next day.
Hero Darling outright winner. Salmond crushed. Separatists in disarray. SNP have no answers.
Take your pick.
It doesn’t matter how much Salmond rag-dolls Darling, they will carry on printing the gospel according to the Union.
When Scotland does actually have an Olympics Team, they will hopefully all be living here rather than have to move to where the facilities are. Then, most of our Team will get a vote in Scotland.
Also, BritNats do have a barely veiled obsession with ethnicity, don’t they? They just can’t move on, like the rest of us, can they?
So they are saying that in order to get gold medals in the Olympics they had to leave Scotland.
Quite the case for the Union they set out.
If they are so far ahead in the polls, why are they trying to change the franchise?
@Mary Bruce
Indeed. New Zealand are breathing down Scotland’s neck on the medal table on 1 million fewer people and a lower GDP per head. Much of the funding for NZ sport is lottery driven as here. Many top athletes like Val Adams have to live and train overseas. Zane Robertson who got Bronze for NZ in the 5,000m on the track lives and trains up in Iten in Kenya. He wasn’t overawed by the Kenyans as he trains with them. Sleeps top to toe on the same mattress in a concrete room with his twin brother.
Dedication is more important than anything else.
BTW a weightlifter from Kiribati won a gold medal. His country’s first ever. The NZ media told me. The Pacific is our backyard and the people living there our ‘cousins’. He beat a Kiwi lifter into silver but there are no hard feelings. Two medals for the Pacific, cool bro.
I await their (VNB) reply with baited breath. 😉
I hope an independent Scotland will have better training facilities based in our country to prevent our athletes moving away. That’s what having our own government can do. Not allowing everything to be sucked down south towards Westminster!
A proper journalist would have told us which one. 🙂
Murray McCallum says:
“If they are so far ahead in the polls, why are they trying to change the franchise?”
Too late to change the franchise now. However, I wonder if they are preparing groundwork for challenges if it’s a close Yes win. We know the result is binding, but that certainly won’t stop them trying. They have to try every dirty trick before they give up, after all.
The facilities in Scotland aren’t actually that bad.
Athletes move for various reasons. Warm weather training, altitude training, lucrative US college scolarships, coaching, their team may be based in a certain location, etc.
Heeds,
Can you can it with the ‘slovene girlfriend Tomkins’ stuff.
We get it… you think they’re the same… but you have no proof and its tiresome the 50th time.
Just shows which side is really riddled with ethnic nationalists!
haha. You just have to laugh (or cry) at how nationalistic the erm, non nationalist ‘unionists’ are.
I grow tired of this dead horse being flogged by the No side.
But yes Rev, do ask VNB how they would propose defining a ‘Scot’ for the purposes of offering a universal vote in the referendum.
Certain groups of people would need to be filtered out, leading to an increasingly subjective and complicated series of judgments having to be made. The possibilities are infinite; but a clearly stated series of mechanisms would need to exist.
Gaze upon the following examples of the ‘true Scot definition’ minefield:
*Someone born in in Edinburgh in 1926 to a Welsh father and English mother who happened to be visiting friends. He was taken home to Swansea at three weeks old, thinks of himself as Welsh, and has never been back to Scotland. Would he get a vote? If so, why? If not, why not?
*Someone from Inverness who emigrated with her parents to Australia at the age of 11 in 1975 and is now working in pharmaceuticals in the USA. Her husband from Brisbane causes her to identify more with Australia than with the ‘old country’. Would she get a vote? If so, why? If not, why not? And what about her now-elderly Aussie-citizen parents?
*Someone who headed off from Darvel to the ‘bright lights’ of London in 1996 at the age of 21 because he hated Scotland and now has no wish to return. Would he get a vote? If so, why? If not, why not?
And so on…but, as I say, it’s flogging a dead horse.
@ Les Wilson, dont underestimate serious money, dudes like Prof Tomkins, the City, the Lords, Ian Davidson, BBC etc
Tomkins is interesting because he’s a very loud complainer that the exclusion of English, Welsh, NI voters from the vote in deciding “their” country’s future, breaks several EU and UN laws. Tomkins explains all the law in her blog and CiF Graun but keep an eye out for “legal competence” and Scots.gov because that’s the basis of all their legal action or not:D
link to notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com
Those with long memories will recall that we saw the same tactic deployed in 2011-12, when the argument was whether the Scottish Parliament, without help from Westminster, enjoyed the legal competence to pass legislation authorising a referendum on independence. The SNP insisted, wholly without legal foundation, that it did. The SNP was wrong yet, when the UK Government suggested a solution, they were abruptly shouted down with cries of Westminster “boots” “stomping” all over “Scotland’s referendum”. Over the course of some long months, it was patiently and calmly shown that on analysis, the UK Government had got the law right and the SNP had got it wrong, and Nationalist talk of boots and stomping was replaced with rather more mature language of co-operation and respect.
@Robyn
As an amateur runner who tries to continue through a Scottish winter I can sympathise. This last one was fine, though dreich. But the previous few meant at time my only way of running was on the beach. I can do a decent 6 miles of out and back on the beach, hurdling the groynes for fun. But a decent workout it usually isn’t all bundled up for -8C with windchill (very exposed the beach).
I can understand why athletes would choose to train elsewhere. When I was young and growing up in NZ an athletic scholarship in the States was an enticing prospect. Nobody there would have criticised me if I had chosen to take that route. And I would still have qualified to represent NZ. And Scotland, and GB and potentially Romania through my mother . . .
Or Norfolk Island for that matter:
link to stuff.co.nz
The ham acting of these two naw bags should be enough in itself to send folk to the popcorn stall.
I don’t get the video?
I don’t know what the core message is supposed to be!
The good news is that nobody else will either.
I notice it is titled Cinema Campaign Olympians. Does this mean referendum themed cinema ads are being shown again? Thought NB managed to have ads stopped after earlier rubbish work? Or does NB think, ‘well, we’ve made them and paid for them let’s just Youtube them. Especially with a sporty thing happening we are bound to sway some people.’ Mmm, think not.
Doesn’t really matter as it is probably the strangest and most nonsensical argument (in the loosest sense) put forward so far. Maybe they just don’t get the civic referendum.
I’m sure many of remember the rash of opinion polls released during the London Olympics.
Has anybody also noticed that there’s been none during the commonwealth games, but this spurious one from overseas that suits their agenda?
What was it we were saying about the unionist polling?
O/T but felt like sharing.
Long time reader (couple of years now) and occasional poster here.
Contribution to the debate includes:
Try to discuss indy in work whenever I can.
YES posters in house windows & car, YES badges, soon to be a YES Saltire in the garden, deliver YES papers to the houses in my area.
Sone financial contributions.
I share lots on FB to family/friends, with no apparent results.
I was beginning to wonder if it was making any difference.
Sometimes get a “zzzzz” comment from family members on my FB posts…!
So…a year ago my parents were definite NOs.
In a classic older generation, Sunday Post reading, don’t like Alex Salmond, default NO kind of way.
Attempts to talk about it were always given an impatient rebuff.
We had a wee BBQ last week and my Mum announced out of the blue, I’ve changed to a YES.
Honestly if you knew her you’d be as gobsmacked as me.
Her reasons being:
She’s getting older, so it won’t affect her so much, but all her kids (4 of us) are YES and she would do it for us and her grandkids.
Plus the fact that Scotland never gets the govt it votes for.
Dad’s still a NO, but she’s sure she’ll get him to change his mind (trust me…she will).
Then, in work this week, talking to a colleague who is a default NO.
She’s in the TA and that was her main concern, she’d heard that they would all lose their jobs if we went indy, as no need for a TA anymore.
I talked about how Westminster have cut deeply already, and closed down regiments etc.
I emailed her a paragraph from the White Paper about defence personnel numbers planned in an Indy Scotland, and left it at that.
Next day she came over and said…I’m thinking I’ll vote YES.
We talked more and today I’ve given her a copy of the White Paper summary, as she had questions on pensions etc.
So it’s been a brilliant few days, very inspiring and a reminder that even if you don’t see immediate results, things are going on in the background, and when people hear the facts, they are changing.
Let’s do this!
(PS Dick Gaughan if you happen to read this, my brother & his wife are lucky enough to be seeing you tonight in Stornoway, please please please do Freedom Come All Ye 🙂
Should some attempt to use nullifying tactics after a Yes vote in order to prevent Scotland regaining its independence all that will happen is that support for independence will greatly increase.
Stu, loved the “bad cop, bad cop with learning difficulties”. Pure dead brilliant !
Iraq, now a basket after US and UK involvement
Egypt, US and UK urged the removal of Mubarak and the installation of western democracy. Which they did and elected a government the west did not approve of, military coup and 200+ elected and party members due for hanging and Egypt now a basket case.
Libya, US, UK and France intervened and it’s now a basket case.
Ukraine, elected president decided to remain with traditional partner, Russia, west encouraged overthrow of the elected president. Ukraine now a basket case.
The west wonders why it’s a terrorist target?
OFFS!
Residency, residency, residency.
The terms and conditions of this vote have been agreed and set by both parties Mr Offord. Time to grow up and move on.
Not sure what this video is trying to say.
Although, “No Borders”? Only the nae sayers are talking about putting up a border.
If NO camp say they are well ahead polls–won’t many undecideds feel more free to vote YES?
@ Rev. Stuart Campbell, “saying people are other people without evidence” rule?
Got it:D
I wonder what No voters think about such calls for people who neither live, work or pay taxes in Scotland having a say?
It’s almost as if the Tory funders of the No campaign are frustrated at just stumping up the money.
@Muscleguy,
‘Cool bro’ gotta love Scots Kiwis:)
During a recent trip to Belgium to attend Motorcycle races, the first weekend was for Classic Bikes and the paddock is very well represented by English riders and teams. Quite a few were supportive of my Van with YES all over it including a WOS badge on the grill (thanks again Hooks, contribution has been made to Dateline Scotland) Anyways, a few of them mainly tory types were all very annoyed that the rest of the UK could not vote in our Referendum, they seem to be getting fed a line that if Scotland leaves the UK, it will affect what’s left and they should have a vote as it will affect them.
Now if you think about this point of view, We know that when Scotland dissolves the UK It will have a negative effect on the Fuk, the ipsos/mori poll that I took part in last night heavily featured questions about status and position in the world.
They to a man believe that we are subsidized so it must be getting through to them that they will lose their seat on the UN security council.
In two separate discussion with different people, one from the South and one from Manchester they were quite passionate about this. So it must be the talk of the Tory Club steamy.
@heedtracker:
Lawyers have said that the USA’s declaration of independence was illegal by the laws of the day, and they’re probably right too.
That didn’t stop the USA.
Here’s an off-beat question for you: On bonfire night, are you celebrating that Fawkes was caught, or that he tried?
Could you imagine the uproar if Yes ran an advert that went like this: Do you know how many English live in Scotland? 20, 000? No, 366, 000. Do you know how many of them can vote in the referendum? A couple of 100? ‘No, all of them’ to looks of astonishment
Since there’s no actual point to the video, I’m left trying to imagine what message they think might be taken home.
I think it’s another TWTPTS message. Look Scotland, your athletes who live in Scotland are all to pathetic to get medals (except Scott Brash of course) so you’re hanging on the coat-tails of “foreigners” to be able to boast of a medal.
Since the same people would still be eligible to compete for Scotland post independence I don’t see what else they’re trying to do apart from make Scots feel small and inadequate.
The question of whether the winning athletes are high-flying Scots who’ve moved abroad as their careers took off, or whether they’re stars from foreign training regimes we’re taking advantage of because they had a granny born in Benbecula isn’t raised, never mind answered.
Neither is the question of why these high-flying Scots athletes have moved abroad as their careers took off. Is it lack of facilities? If so, then we can do something about it after independence. On the other hand, it may well be the climate, in which case it’s something that will always happen and we shouldn’t be particularly worried about it.
It’s totally pointless piece and the only possible reason for filming it is as another subliminal dose of TWTPTS.
Is that a VNB vid or a BNP vid? It’s so hard to tell.
I can sum up the video, with one word;pish.
Handy documentary on R4 this morning about Turkey/ Kurdish situation with some interesting quotes about how ‘Nationalism’ and any movement for self determination can only lead to misery, bloodshed, war.
link to bbc.co.uk
“Tim Whewell travels to the region to meet her and other social reformers, and discover why so many of Turkey’s Kurds say they have turned their back on nationalism, and want to express their identity in ways they say are more modern”
Couldn’t it be that Scottish Olympians have to move out of Scotland in order to be able to be part of Team GB?
Anyone know of any GB Olympic teams who are based in Scotland meaning rUK athletes have to come here?
I suspect few…
“We’re just at a loss to work out what on Earth they’re even attempting to say.”
They are trying to invoke an OMG! reaction, or as Lord Steel would say, ‘Heaven Forefend. I am completely disambiguated!’, or You Bolt – shit!
Meanwhile, HMS Duncan “The Royal Navy’s latest hi-tech warship” sits just down from the SECC And a royal navy Minesweeper in the basin behind the science centre essentially saying “what on earth are you going to do without us”
Eligibility to vote?
I think that when UK holds its In/Out referendum, the Germans, the Spanish, the French et al, should all have a vote on the subject. After all, they have a strong interest in the matter, don’t they?
@ Illy, On bonfire night, are you celebrating that Fawkes was caught, or that he tried? after 18th Sept, neither!
@dodecostanza
Keep sharing mate, people are reading it, even if no one comments, I made that same mistake and was taken aback when a couple of people were asking why I’d stopped posting up articles.
It makes a massive difference and I’ve had many conversions from speaking to friends who read things I’ve posted and how it changed their mind etc.
The criteria is set, by all round agreement, about who has a vote, so i am minded to point, laugh, and move on to be honest.
I wonder if cinema attendance went down due to these offensive ads were being played, hence being pulled ?
Of course, letting ex-pat Scots around the world vote (presumably after blood tests and investigation of family trees, would result in a massive hike in postal votes as few are going to bother travelling to the old country to put their cross on a ballot paper.
Postal votes are already a contentious issue. Imagine how much more contentious they would be when coming in from all over the world with only the flimsiest of checks on whether the person with a right to vote had actually returned it.
Perhaps the paper that did the poll of ex-pats in America would be wiling to help!
@TD says:31 July, 2014 at 10:56 am:
“Third, if we were doing this on ehtnicity, presumably non-Scottish people living in Scotland would be excluded.”
You know, there might just be merit in that one after all. We could exclude all those Ethnic Irish folks that have blighted Scotland over the centuries. Those that Follow, Follow the Union flag with the red hand in the centre and those who follow the Irish Tricolour too. An instant cure for the sectarianism problem.
I’m born in Scotland to scottish parents, raised in Scotlande and have been living and working in denmark now now for nearly 20 years. I would like to vote and would indeed come home and vote if it was allowed, but I can respect the the decision as the outcome of the referendum will not affect me pesonally.
‘bad cop, bad cop with learning difficulties’ that really made me laugh out loud. Brilliant Rev
@BuckieBraes says: 31 July, 2014 at 11:13 am:
“I grow tired of this dead horse being flogged by the No side.”
I’ll give you an almost perfet example, BuckieBraes.
Two of the finest centre forwards that Scottish football ever produced were the Baker Brothers, Joe & Jerry.
Their father was an army man and Joe was born in England, while his dad was stationed at, (if memory serves), Aldershot. Jerry was born in the USA while Dad was stationed in the USA.
Joe was actually capped for England and, honestly, you would be hard put to have found anyone more ethnically Scottish if you tried. Memery does tell me that Joe at least did get Scottish caps but for league internationals as he was playing in the Scottish League at the time.
Jerry, again from memory, never was capped as the USA were not big on football back then.
Morag says:
‘Is it lack of facilities? If so, then we can do something about it after independence.’
Thats exactly it Morag. Or because we are excluded from them. Tennis is a fine example.
Andy Murray called for a new National Scottish Tennis Centre (which we have the framework of in Stirling). What he fails miserably to mention is that we have a national tennis centre already, it’s a UK wide one and happens to be based in leafy London suburb of Roehampton, just along the road from Wimbledon.
I’ve no objection to a national tennis centre based here, but if Scots are being excluded from it due to cost of accommodation, travel etc then we have an issue. Our tax payer money goes to this facility through funding from the Dept. of Sport and Culture.
Independence would give us the opportunity to invest our share of UK taxes into investment in Scotland, and frankly, a lesser tennis centre in Scotland (compared to Roehampton) is far more beneficial to us than the existing set up that is unreachable for Scots.
@heedtracker @ Illy,
On bonfire night, are you celebrating that Fawkes was caught, or that he tried? after 18th Sept, neither!
HAHAHAHA…it wont be long before we hear that as a NO excuse “Vote Yes and you will lose Bonfire Night!”*
*to be replaced with independence day of course but dont let facts stop them talking pish
dodecostanza
Cheers for posting that. Very encouraging indeed. I’m having same response from family, friends and colleagues. Makes you wonder about the ‘polls’.
Best to ignore them and keep up the fight for hearts and minds!
@desimond, yup after independence, let’s put all that long forgotten blood thirsty UKOK weirdness behind us and make Scottish Independence Day fireworks night.
@heedtracker says: 31 July, 2014 at 11:13 am:
“Tomkins explains all the law in her blog and CiF Graun but keep an eye out for “legal competence” and Scots.gov because that’s the basis of all their legal action or not”
Just one more myth espoused by Better Together that doesn’t hold together under examination.
I’ve made the point until I’m rathe blue in the face, (it saves me bother when face painting the Soltire – I only need white face paint).
The facts are that the three country Kingdom of England, being still an independent Kingdom and parliament in 1688 could not thus make Scotland part of the, “Constitutional Monarchy”, they became in 1688 by crowning ONLY an English Kingdom’s monarchy. Scotland had declared herself as the People of Scotland being sovereign and independent in the 1320 Declaration of independence.
Which is the main reason that Scotland, (today), still has an independant legal system. Thus the Good Professor is wrong and English Law does not have precidence over Scots law but notice the Westminster attempts at establishing a Supreme Court which actually has no legislated legal standing.
All the Westminster & Better Together fondly imagined argumenbts are nothing but wishful thinking. Take for example their claim that the United KINGDOM is a country. Why then does it’s legal title describe it as a Kingdom? History shows that what is now England was composed of hundreds of wee kingdoms. So does that mean Northumbria and Cumbria are kingdoms or countries? If not when did they stop being either?
Just watched the clip (always put off looking for health reasons). Aye it’s ‘no joke’ indeed having to fight for Scotland’s dignity and respect against such puerile and deceitful nonsense.
But hey, they might be right. Enough of us might still be zipping ourselves up in the morning.
What is their point (on so many levels)? Maybe we could supply better training facilities so that our athletes wouldn’ t need to live “abroad”?
It’s very simple, if those that want a vote give up their homes elsewhere move home to Scotland and register to vote before 2nd Sept, then they get to vote.don’t just bitch and whine move and do something about it.
The Commonwealth Games medal tally shows able athletes in Scotland are being denied places in ‘team GB?’ because of bias or not wanting to train in the south. Better to create more opportunities in Scotland.
Vote YES
Scotland was it’s own legal system, church/education, shared Protestant monarch for ever,under the terms of the agreement of the terms of the Act of Union 1707. That is why Scotland had a democratic right to a Referendum. (Lord Cooper 1953 judgement) It Scotland the people are sovereign under Scottish Law.
The NO campaign? In a hole stop digging.
I thought the cinemas had decided they weren’t showing any more referendum adverts due to them annoying everyone?
I can tell you our friend in the leather jacket and white t-shirt won’t be voting either way as being a professional actor he lives in……..wait for it……..wait for it……..London!
Their point , Helen, is that they reckon on enough of us still being willing to swallow their rubbish. If they’re right it’s a reasonable tactic.
Did the actors improvise this? Have they been tested for drugs?
I think we should be told.
the people are sovereign under Scottish Law.
This is debateable; the 1320 DoA in fact claims a right of recall over any representative whosoever.
The practical outcome of this right is that anybody claiming to represent more than 100 Scots who does not act in accordance with the will of the people can, and presumably will, be recalled so that eventually the will of the people will be expressed by their representative. However that is not the same as saying that the settled will of the Scottish people is sovereign.
I would much rather our constitution stated that any representative of 100 or more of the Scottish people was liable to recall at all and any time, than the settled will etc. Scots should hold their politicians by the short and curlies at all times as opposed to the Westminster system of paramount Lords and subservient subjects
Glad I wasnt the only one scratching my head and wondering what that video was all about.I take a look at the VNB facebook for a laugh,now and then,but having been barred on day one of its release i cant comment on it.
Although most of the YES posters are soon deleted it is ok to call Alex Salmond a nazi and post mock up pictures of him as hitler however.
A toxic bed of fear as far as im concerned!
Just one. That’ll be because someone else eats up the funding pie.
With enemies like these, who needs friends?
Plot. Lost.
Ignorance is strength, wrote George Orwell, and the No campaign has become The Ministry of Truth (their version of truth, of course), as well as being a Ministry of Fear and Distortion. In fact Orwell’s vision of how the state attempts to control how people think is becoming eerily manifest the more the campaign progresses.
GB is BB. Westminster and Whitehall is the Inner Party. Minitru is MSM/BBC, the hegemonic tool of the state. If you don’t worship BB then you are guilty of committing ‘thoughtcrime’. The punishment is to agree that 2+2=5.
The only hope lies with the proles.
@Muscleguy
A lot of amateur runners like myself go for warm weather training – Club La Santa is one well known facility. Only for a couple of weeks tho in January usually, but it can be a boost for morale after having to run in conditions you described.
So, if you were an elite athlete and having to contend with the Scottish winters, going somewhere warm and snow-free on a permanent basis makes sense as you are less likely to be interrupted by weather conditions during the crucial winter training period. Either that or they stay at home and use the treadmill but that has its risks if you are having to rely on it too often. I know which option I would choose.
The affront of the NO camp, Alistair Darling has no vote. He lives in London.
re: bonfire night. Don’t mock bonfire night, I was asked a serious question about it last year during a discussion with someone I met while out walking the dogs. “Would we still have bonfire night in an independent Scotland?”. I suggested it would still happen as I was sure I had read somewhere that the bonfire tradition went back to pagan times.
How many Gold Mail boxes were in Scotland.
How many Gold Mail boxes were in Scotland.
Imagine the outrage if someone took it upon themselves to start painting letterboxes for our Scottish CG gold medalists.
Watching so many unionist politicians’ heads explode would be hilarious.
@handclapping says: 31 July, 2014 at 2:24 pm
“This is debateable; the 1320 DoA in fact claims a right of recall over any representative whosoever.”
Whoa! There!First of all there were records, a bit iffy perhaps, dating way back to Alexander. That were quoted but what was behind the Declaration of Arbroath was the murder of the Red Comyn on the alter steps of Dumfries High Kirk by Robert Bruce. This was sacrilege and the reason the international authority of Christendom, The Pope, excommunicated Bruce.
So Scotland had one contender to the throne dead and the other excommunicated and the usual laws of those times was that that of the Divine Right of Kings. Under which law the crown head owned everything in a kingdom including their subjects. Thus not only could the ex-communicant NOT have the God given Divine Right of Kings and thus not rule the kingdom but that every subject was also excommunicated. It is not generally known but the Pope decreed that every English church service began by cursing the Scots.
Then the Pope fell out with the English monarchy and the cunning Declaration of Arbroath was drawn up and sent. It stated that Scotland was very different from other kingdoms in that the monarchy were not Sovereign and did not receive the Divine Right of Kings as the people were sovereign and they appointed their monarch as, “Protector of the People’s Sovereignty”. What’s more if the Sovereign People decided the appointed Monarch was not doing his job they had legal right to dismiss him/her and appoint another in his/her place.
That is why there is no English trespass law in Scotland. That is why Scots have always had legal right to roam. You cannot trespass upon land that you own. That is why if a private person clamps a vehicle parked upon land they own and demands a fee to release it the clamper is charged with demanding money with menace. You can, though be charged for any damage you do to private land or be charged with invasion of privacy. So the current Scots law clearly sees the people as sovereign.
Haha — BT just loves its “regulars”!!!
Here’s another one, spotted in multiple places by Orkney Women:
link to facebook.com
For those who talk about ethnicity – I would like to know, where is the city of Ethni?
Patrician says: 31 July, 2014 at 6:10 pm
“I was asked a serious question about it last year during a discussion with someone I met while out walking the dogs. “Would we still have bonfire night in an independent Scotland?”. I suggested it would still happen as I was sure I had read somewhere that the bonfire tradition went back to pagan times.”
Just about every Christian Feast is a rip off from a former belief – including Christmas. When I was a wee boy we did not hold Guy Fox Bonfire Night. Come to that we hardly celebrated Christmas. Halloween or All Hallows was celebrated on the night of October 31. Scottish and Irish immigrants took versions of the tradition to North America, Australia and New Zealand. The Guiseing has nothing to do with Guy Fox but of Disguising for on All Hallows it was held that the spirits of the dead returned to Earth to get the living and they came disguised as living people, (Zombies if you like). However All Hallows was itself stolen from pre Christian times.
Red lightning screams through blackened skies over Salisbury Crags as Comrade Sturgeon (Salmondista Commissar of the Eternal Revolution) climbs gingerly, as only a Scot can, over the pile of decomposing corpses splayed on the steps of the Scottish Parliament.
“HEIL SALMOND!” She screams with delusional zeal at the disgusting foreign security guard, who isn’t even ethnically Scottish but still got to vote in the referendum, even though some landowners with hard-working families and good Scottish names like “MacTavish” and “Blair” couldn’t.
“Heil Salmond,” mutters the security guard in reply, looking at his shoes. He backs into the door to open it for her, but it falls off its hinges because it was made by a Scottish idiot. Comrade Sturgeon Canadian barndances past him and into the chamber, adjusting her barrister’s wig and free-climbing up the pile of salvaged bank-hoardings to her judge’s box, ready to sentence individual BBC journalists to death, not only for failing to support the SNP but also because (uniquely among nations of the world) Scotland can no longer afford the BBC. Neither the NHS, so she’s going to sentence the guys from the NHS to death later, after lunch, which will be Tunnock’s Tea Cakes and Freedom Tea (made from infant tears strained through a kilt coated in Bannockburn mud) because all other food is impossible in independent “Braveheart” Scotland.
Meanwhile in London, Nobel Peace Prize recipient President George Osborne looks down at his desk and sees the budget reconciliation papers which finally reveal to him that it is possible to end child poverty thanks to the savings made by no longer supporting the greedy treacherous scrounging Scottish bastards. For some reason the NHS can also be un-privatised, because somehow based on a logic that normal people can’t understand, stopping Scotland from using the pound (using a new legal method devised by the president) saved England money too. He smiles, not at all smugly, to himself.
“Well it took a while but we got there in the end. My egalitarian tendencies, well-hidden until August 2014, finally won the day. Scottish people really are uniquely incapable of running, or even being citizens of a nation. What do you think, Nick?” Says the former chancellor, expositionally. Nick Clegg wrestles the burgundy red ball gag out of his mouth, grinning as he speaks.
“Yes, I suppose the lesson is that trying to improve the place you live in is a total fucking waste of time. It’s a shame those lazy, feckless, overweight, pathetic Scots didn’t heed the lesson that I tried so hard to teach them in 2010. Democracy is stupid and everyone who has any ideals or ambitions out with (he really said outwith as two words, genuinely) getting their individual child a Westminster internship is a complete inexcusable waste of space.”
He lets go of the ball gag, which flies back at his face, breaking all of his front teeth. The people of England smile in unison, because everything is unbelievably fantastic and Westminster politics are not a Hellish internecine tragedy.
Anyways darlings, I’ve had the usual success in arousing the interest of a young man as to the matter of taking control of his country, and how it is in his hands. No need to go into details – but I assume you all have similar tales to tell?
Any time that I think there is a lack of passion in the Yes campaign I only have to look at the No campaign to feel completely relaxed. From having a situation where they thought that they had Scotland completely under control in the UK the No campaign have run completely out of effective argument. Danny’s increasingly shrill Dom and disaster message blends with ADs and everybody else to make it blindingly obvious that the only people really in trouble are the establishment who are watching something come ot pass that they think couldn’t or should’t have happened.
I think we should be challenging them more on what they think in this union belongs to Scotland apart from debt. They are spending a huge amount of money on a very weak case that has fooled nobody. Everybody supporting the status quo seems to have either a huge benefit or position which they stand to lose in the event of independence. They also don’t seem to understand that suspending campaigning for the Commonwealth Games means not putting out idiotic stories in the press every second day. However like Ireland there are more descended Scots in the world than ones who live here. There has always been a solution to the vote thing. Move back here and you can vote quite easily and even take part in Scottish life and in the country’s future. Ultimately for once this is real democracy, one vote per person and despite the huge imbalance in the media they don’t seem to have any argument that can win.
link to hebrides-news.com
scotland need ferry replacments built
Good to see there will be work for the shipyards
Watched the crap video.
No idea what it is trying to say.
Life’s too short – Referendum around the corner.
Feel a tad sorry for the actors.
Hope they’re not Scots, only putting on Scot’s accents for the money.
I wish now I had a dog to take for walkies and thereby meet folk.
If my pussy was willing to be lead on a leash, I’m sure many people would stop for a chat.
What I wondered about VNB – does that mean they are also campaigning for a united Ireland? Surely it’s only logical!
If we are told that Darling has had a heart attack or something similar before the debate, we will have to verify it to make sure it is not faked like Jack Bauer’s death.
I still believe that Darling will NOT debate with Salmond.
He won’t debate – just blink and bluster.
Mary Bruce says:
31 July, 2014 at 10:44 am
Doesn’t this video highlight the fact that our athletes are forced to train outside Scotland because we don’t have the resources here (under our wonderful union) to support them?
Yes, it does. I honestly don’t know of the athlete’s individual residency status at present, but the TeamGB.com website spells it all out for the time of the London Olympic Games.
The National Watersports Centre is located in Nottingham, so it doesn’t come as a surprise that Baillie and Florence both moved to study at Nottingham University, with Baillie still resident in that area in 2012. Similarly Chris Hoy was down as a Manchester resident at the time, and surely not a coincidence that British Cycling is based in Manchester. Luke Patience was based at Portland, Dorset at the time, which just happens to the home of the National Sailing Academy. The National Centre for Swimming is located in Bath, and I’m sure you won’t be surprised to learn that Michael Jamieson was a resident of Bath at the time. British Rowing has a London HQ, and presumably utilises certain stretches of the Thames for training purposes. Katherine Grainger was a resident of Maidenhead, which almost sits on the Thames, and is not too far from Eton Dorney, the London Olympics rowing venue. The two female hockey players were both based in England at the time, but I can’t find much background to these decisions. Education related or work related? Scott Brash was the only one to have a Scottish residency at the time.
So, there is a clear indication, that Scotland, a supposed equal partner in the union, has received next to no funding for top class training establishments, and there is every reason to expect that many of these athletes would have chosen to remain in Scotland if some investment in training facilities was forthcoming.
I’m sure we could have a world class water sports centre in Scotland, at the very least we have the necessary ingredient.
Long jump and sand might be beyond our capabilities now that our dunes are needed for bad walk excuses.
@Paula Rose –
I would’ve thought a lobster on a ribbon would tickle your fancy.
@ Paula Rose
For those who talk about ethnicity – I would like to know, where is the city of Ethni?
It is down the road from Inter, along the road from Man.
I forgot about Andy Murray. Murray is a Surrey resident, which is not too distant from the National Tennis Centre in Roehampton.
Ian dear – you do know how to make one blush!!! now sssh the Rev does not like innuendo on his main threads.
Or in them.
@ BtP – and a long way down the road from civilisation.
It’s you in this picture, isn’t it? Go on – admit it!
link to 31.media.tumblr.com
Just a couple of basic points:
1. This is the franchise that the NO campaign agreed to, so they are complaining about something they negotiated and signed up to. That’s barking.
2. Has anyone actually asked the individuals concerned if THEY feel it is unfair they can’t vote? They chose not to live in Scotland, and could have moved back. Are VNB suggesting they are aggrieved? As far as I’m aware nobody has asked them and this mock offence is being peddled on their behalf without their consent. How democratic is that?
(enough Ian dear, people must not be distracted)
mogabee,
“New tagging device being trialled in London to check if subject takes alcohol to be adjusted to check for Scottishness.”
Hopefully the next edition of ‘Dateline Scotland’ will shed some more light on this ‘news’.
Why do we celebrate Guy Fawkes night anyway? The gunpowder plot was in 1605, more than 100 years before the Union, so it was just against English parliament.
We should just revive Samhainn properylon 31st October and have our big fire festival then.
It sounds to me that they are trying to highlight the lack of funding for sport in Scotland that prevents our athletes from finding adequate facilities up here.
Marco McGinty
I agree and maybe if we actually had some National Training Centres more people living in Scotland could access the training facilities, more juniors would be able to train with experts close to home….ERGO we might well end up with more medal success??
How many parents can afford to send their kids to stay in Bath/Surrey/Nottingham etc etc whilst they get expert training.
Was investigating how to get onto electoral register was surprised to see that in England & Wales you can do this online but not in Scotland until 19th September! You have to print and send by post. Thought electoral commission were supposed to make it easy and encourage people to vote. Does anyone know when voting cards are due to be issued so people can have time to re register if any jiggery pokery occurs (such as threat from GCC to remove people from register who don’t respond to council tax arrears letters).
BTG PAYING 25pound per 1000 for delivering there shern
Squirrel Towers
Correct. I’ve done a wee bit of research into Team GB Olympics sports, and the locations of the headquarters and national training establishments for these sports. Out of the 40 summer sports mentioned on the TeamGB.com website, a grand total of 38 are all based in England. The other two (Football and Golf) don’t (or didn’t) appear to have any Team GB headquarters or training establishments, although it would be reasonable to assume that the FA and the PGA would have been the main contacts for these sports, both of which are based in England.
So there we have it. The British Olympics Team (and the UK government) couldn’t, wouldn’t and never will find it within themselves to locate a single training establishment or sporting headquarters in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.
Of the 15 winter sports headquarters or training establishments, 10 are in England, 1 in Wales and the remaining 4 in Scotland. Of the four Scottish ones, I have presumed that three are in Scotland (Biathlon, Cross Country Skiing and Nordic Combined), with Curling being the only definite.
It’s quite obvious that our Welsh and Irish cousins are also getting a raw deal from this so called union.
Oi! That wisnae me! (Though it might have been, agree with every word.)
A bit of personisation going on?
Although I do it for free, I wouldn’t get out of bed for that.
They must be targeting urban areas only, because I know I struggle to do more than about 70 to 80 in an afternoon out in the country, using the car and having pre-planned the route by checking the electoral register in conjunction with the ordnance survey map. (That preparation in itself consumed many winter hours.)
I’m heading out to do the lowest-hanging fruit on my patch tonight, a street of very easy ex-council houses built close together with no entryphones or anything complicated. There are probably about 110 doors and it will take me over an hour.
£25 for 1000? They can keep it. Do it free, for a better Scotland? Gladly.
It’s slightly more sinister.
link to bettertogether.net
There’s no actual guarantee that you have to be training at a UK Governing Body Facility but one might assume that once you are selected you will be expected to train their for the greater glory of the state. Or in more rational terms by ensuring that all the UK funding finds it’s way into England you ensure that come the Olympics that’s probably where the majority of athletes are based.
Another point is that the last figure I had of where people buy UK lottery tickets etc showed a higher per capita spend in Scotland than the rUK. I’ve seen it described as a tax on the poor/desperate so it’s kind of understandable why that should be. It follows that we, as in Scotland, pay more than our share for the training of our athletes. It also follows that if we’re not allowed to contribute to the rUK National Lottery then funding will be cut to those “centers of excellence”.
Yes, this is bullshit. But what out, bullshit can work. The yes to AV campaign, couldn’t have lost by a bigger margin. You could prove the AV was better, it’s maths, yet the bullshit propaganda worked.
@Iain (orri) McCord
I’m not on Facebook, so I had to use a relative’s account, but I’ve just put a post on the site you linked to Iain, mentioning the fact that none of our athletes have ever had the opportunity to train at a national facility in their homeland. This is the text I entered;
“Yes, but of all the summer sports contested by Team GB (40 in total, I believe), all of the headquarters or national training facilities for these sports are in England. It is patently obvious that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not considered real partners in the union when it comes to top-class, national training facilities. There is a high probability that many of these athletes would have chosen to stay in their home country, if the so-called union had the decency to provide some training facilities outside of England.
Vote YES.”
We’ll see if it remains on the site.