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Merry Christmas, England

Posted on December 25, 2018 by

There’s a digital edition of the Times out today, but the normal Scotland section doesn’t make the cut. (There’s normally an Ireland section too – although it doesn’t get billed on the Contents list – which is also missing today, and there’s never a Wales section for some reason.)

Maybe if we all keep really quiet they’ll completely forget we’re here and not Brexit us either. Have a good one, readers.

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    1. 25 12 18 09:56

      Merry Christmas, England | speymouth

    517 to “Merry Christmas, England”

    1. Betty Boop says:

      Merry Christmas Stu. Thanks for keeping on, keeping on! Hope you have a relaxing day!

      Oh, Merry Christmas everybody out there in Wingsland.

    2. Thepnr says:

      Seasons greetings Rev and to all who visit Wings. Enjoy your dinner and your tipple of choice.

    3. Odet says:

      Merry Christmas Stu, may your wish be granted. [Winky thingy]
      Seasons greetings to all Wingers and fellow Lurkers.

    4. BuggerLePanda says:

      Bamboo chews all round

      Bisous to all

    5. Jon Drummond says:

      Merry Christmas, Stu.
      Thanks for your Trojan efforts to date.
      Indulge; you deserve it.

    6. Albaman says:

      Merry Christmas, and a Happy, Healthy, Prosperous New Year, to one and all.

    7. bobajock says:

      Merry Crimbo old bean.

      As Wangland recedes into the sunset of its existence, and into itself, spare a thought for those down there who think as we do.

    8. Macart says:

      I’m just about to get WELL and truly relaxed for the day (cough).

      All the best folks. 🙂

    9. Takeourblueback says:

      Merry Xmas to all readers to Wings! Let’s all have a cracking day for Xmas & remember, if you’re not ok, theres plenty here to chat …. most of us are friendly souls ?

    10. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      bobajock at 10.02

      Are you sure that’s a “g”. Maybe a “k”?

    11. John Brown says:

      Ho Ho Ho
      Merry Xmas

    12. Bob Millar says:

      Christmas thought

      When Scotland becomes a normal nation again, England, losing her last main colony, will have taken a big step to becoming a normal nation itself. Merry Christmas to everybody.

    13. Simone says:

      Merry Christmas Stu and fellow wingers

    14. X_Sticks says:

      Seasons greetings to Rev Stu and all the Wings family. I get the impression that 2019 is going to be quite a year. I hope it works in our favour.

      Looking forward to a Wings get together in February, they always raise the spirits. In more ways than one

    15. manandboy says:

      Happy Christmas to all Wings supporters.

    16. manandboy says:

      Happy Christmas, Stu.

    17. Neil says:

      Happy Christmas and thank you for everything.

    18. Margaret James says:

      Merry Christmas.

    19. Valerie says:

      Have a nice relaxing, peaceful xmas to Rev and Wingers.

      Just read a school in England is opening today, to feed hungry children. Yesterday, I watched a vid of a Tesco mob, attack a car, with two inside, who had allegedly stolen alcohol. The car was smashed up with trolleys and a golf club, as the car tried to get away.

      If folk think this kind of stuff, isn’t coming here, you’re deluded.

      Sorry, for the downer.

      I hope 2019 is Scotland’s year to sort our future.

    20. Derick fae Yell says:

      You too, Stuart

      Thank you for being a voice of sanity
      (Seriously)

      Little by Little
      And stone by stone
      The British mountain
      Comes crumbling down

      Happy Christmas

    21. galamcennalath says:

      Merry Christmas Everyone!

      And let’s hope Scotland sets out on the road in 2019 to get away from all the shite!

    22. Street Andrew says:

      Bugger Christmas….Roll on Hogmanay.

      Have a good one everyone…. Specially you, Stu, for keeping the Wings flapping.

    23. Geraldine Divers says:

      Happy Christmas to you all and thanks for giving me and many other readers hope.

    24. Morgatron says:

      Merry Christmas Stu and fellow wingers .it appears according yo the Times we have already became independent- thanks! Have a great and peaceful day, with lashings of beverages and chocolates.

    25. Josef Ó Luain says:

      I’ve just, this misty, Xmas morn, warded of a scam on Gumtree, replete with a fake Pay-Pal screen. I was instructed to deposit £400 (“courier charge”) into the Luxembourg account of one Roberto small (sic). It would all be refunded, I was assured, and appear in my bank account in due course along with the original £525 that I was asking for my Fender Stratocaster. Wingers beware: Scumbags don’t do Xmas. Nollaig Shona!

      HAPPY CHRISTMAS, ALL.

    26. Mary miles says:

      Happy Christmas to all Wingers. Have a restful holiday.
      Best Wishes from Tassie.

    27. Helena Brown says:

      Merry Christmas to everyone, may our next see a huge cracker for all of us. Let’s make it an Independent one.

    28. Stu, yir some man, where would we be withoot yie.

    29. Angry Weegie says:

      And you, Stu. Let’s hope next year is more independent than this.

    30. Sharny Dubs says:

      Marry Christmas and a happy new year when it comes. Remember to put something in the cup for that bundle of homeless as you pass.

    31. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Santa McClaus came last night with a bottle of Longrow Malt Whisky from the Springbank Distillery in Campbeltown and as a result I have wakened up with a knowlwedge of the immediate future in 2019

      1. Having looked at an EU without the UK Russia and the Ukraine have both applied to join it.

      2. The Federal Republic on Nigeria have granted the sovereign people of Biafra an independence referendum

      3. Scotland having voted for independence in 2019 and joined the world the Scottish Government have declared that Independence Day will be on Thursday 25th June 2020, the anniversary of the national celebration of the Battle of Bannockburn, and 700 years after the Declaration of Arbroath.

      Need to get up now.

    32. winifred mccartney says:

      Great joy and peace to all with love to all contributors and readers.

    33. Republicofscotland says:

      Merry Christmas everyone, have a peaceful and pleasant one. ?

    34. starlaw says:

      Seasons greetings and keep up the good work.

    35. Dorothy Devine says:

      and it’s a very Merry Christmas from me!

      I am already knackered and I haven’t started cooking yet!

      Rev Stu , I look forward to the 2019 Wings Truth.

      xx

    36. panda paws says:

      Well Shaking Stevens is/was Welsh so

      “Snow is fallin’
      All around me
      Children playin’
      Having fun
      It’s the season
      Love and understanding
      Merry Christmas everyone”

    37. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Satan brought me a box of West Country Vintage Still cider and I haven’t the faintest idea what to do with it…

      🙁

      Have a braw day abody!

      🙂

    38. Baldeagle58 says:

      Merry Christmas Stu! Thanks for all your work this past year.
      Same goes to you as well, Nana. How you keep on top of all these Links is beyond me!
      To everyone else on Wings, regular readers or just lurkers, I hope you’re all having a peaceful and relaxing Christmas.

    39. ScotsRenewables says:

      Merry Christmas to all Wingers,

      And may 2019 bring what we are all hoping for.

    40. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      It is not just the Times. Over on the Gruniad there is an editorial about the State of the (UK) Union. Northern Ireland gets mentioned plenty, but Scotland once. They think they don’t need to worry about the Scots, they were hoodwinked in the Indyref, and that is means the Jocks are back in their box for a generation. I think they are going to get a rude awakening from that

    41. manandboy says:

      In whatever the future holds, historians may well refer to this time as ‘the Brexit years’. That book is yet to be completed of course, as is always the case when still in the first chapter.

      But already it has the feel of the Domesday Book, in as much as some very weighty judgements will be passed on the relationships of these islands to Europe & the World, and, on the Constitutional relationship between Scotland, Ireland and Wales with the English Empire.

      Brexit – History in the making.

    42. Clapper57 says:

      Merry Xmas Stuart….and thank you….will raise a glass to you today.

      Merry Xmas also to everyone on here…both readers and those peeps that post comments.

    43. Stan Wilson says:

      Merry Xmas to all Wingers and ..well everyone.

    44. Morgatron says:

      Ian Brotherhood @12.09
      that Satan is a right bastard. You will be better off drinking it , just in case that old devil turns up in a mood , you know what hes like with all the fire and shit when he starts with his satanic shenanigans! Enjoy it Mr B.

    45. Nana says:

      Merry Christmas to all.

      Hubby is cooking, aided by Harris Gin and Glenlivet. Gawd knows what dinner will be like but at least the chef is happy!

      I’ve got my feet up. what’s not to like 🙂

    46. Dr Jim says:

      Christmas is a time of reflection so somebody gave me a mirror, I’m looking at me now and reflecting on that

      Happy Christmas chums xxx

    47. Proud Cybernat says:

      Got a drone for Christmas. Can’t think what to do with it.

      Hmmm…

    48. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Morgatron –

      Aye, better the devil ye know and aw that!

      Have a guid yin!

      😉

      Kylie Minogue, ‘Better The Devil You Know’ –

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tto_nmsND_o

    49. Macart says:

      @Nana

      *Same*

      Got the message from you and Mr and Mrs Smallaxe. 🙂

      The budgie has been airpumped and barded. The lighter fuel has been added to the butter (all the better to see it in the dark). Teenagers fed with chocolate and doing the silence thing. Mrs M and I have been quaffing the mulled fallindoonjuice and wishing for peace on earth and good will to all wossinames.

      At some point we may toddle toward the kitchen with serious intent toward mischief, but for now?

      Feet up. 😎

    50. Yesitis says:

      Merry Christmas Stu. And a very merry Christmas to all the Wings readers and comment leavers (even those of you who claim not to read Wings 😉
      Here’s to us in 2019

    51. Auld Rock says:

      A VERY HOLY, HAPPY & PEACEFUL CHRISTMAS to you Stu and all Wingers out there. Keep-up the good work.

    52. yesindyref2 says:

      Have a good one!

    53. Jack Murphy says:

      A very Merry Christmas to all Wingers.

      Here’s a wee Christmas Message to one and all. 🙂

      VIDEO:

      https://tinyurl.com/y9quemj9

    54. yesindyref2 says:

      And if you can’t have a good one, don’t get caught O:)

    55. hackalumpoff says:

      @Proud Cybernat 25 December, 2018 at 12:47 pm
      “Got a drone for Christmas. Can’t think what to do with it.”

      Whateffer you do, don’t blow into it. It will only sound like the Rock and Colin droning on on.

      They can also be used to baste the Turkey in an emergency, drones that is.

    56. Croompenstein says:

      Merry Xmas Stuart and all who sail in WOS.. 🙂

    57. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s the final of the world Disco Dancing competition (1979), for those of you who fancy a wee boogie later.

      It’s full of classic moves. I favour the routine of Savash Omer from Cyprus at 4m 30s, but normally take the precaution of performing it *before* Xmas dinner.

      Who’s YOUR favourite?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1LP81eSKY

    58. Keep up the good work Stu merry xmas, love reading your articles
      BinPin UK

    59. Scott says:

      Merry Christmas Stu and all at WOS and may our dreams come true in 2019.

    60. Bobp says:

      Merry xmass to stu and all wingers, this blog is addictive, and i need my daily fix.

    61. Bobp says:

      Hope Scotland can rise and ‘be a nation again’ in 2019.

    62. mike cassidy says:

      Heard this and thought.

      How appropriate!

      It’s just an old war
      Not even a cold war
      Don’t say it in Russian
      Don’t say it in German
      Say it in broken English

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-H55V_oma0

    63. Bill McLean says:

      Happy Christmas to you Stuart and all Wingers and here’s to freedoms’s light!

    64. potter says:

      Working late shift in NHS, Merry Xmas to all Wingers and all working today.

    65. Maurice Taylor says:

      Merry Christmas Stu and everyone else on Wings, from a Scotsman, living in France, visiting relatives in England/Wales/Scotland for the festive season, (while I still can). Take care folks.

    66. Happy Christmas to all the staff at MI5 and GCHQ and our own Little Drummer Boy,David Leask,

      also Happy Christmas to all those in the morally repugnant Scottish media and journalism,

      i hope all your roast potatoes are soggy.

    67. Davy says:

      A merry Xmas to all.

    68. Bob Mack says:

      Dinners ready. Before that, a Merry Christmas to everybody.
      You are all my daily inspiration and hope for the future.

      Peace to all.

    69. Lanarkist says:

      Love, peace and inspiration on this Day.

      Merry Christmas and many thanks for the Rev and all who tune in!

    70. mumsyhugs says:

      Just back from a lovely relaxing meal out – stuffed!!! Feet up now and a snooze is on the cards. Big family gathering tomorrow when the whole family will be there – including the newest of my 4 grandchildren my tiny baby grandson. Family is what’s important and what supports you through the difficult times – so merry Xmas to everyone in the Wings family 🙂

    71. Boudicca says:

      Merry Christmas, and God bless us, every one!

      Cheers all

    72. twathater says:

      Merry Christmas Stu and ALL independanistas from Mr & Mrs twathater,

      Nicola when you dissolve the union your name will go down in history and folklore and be taught in our schools to future generations , as the person who reasserted independence for Scotland and it’s people , what higher ACCOLADE could you be given , knowing that you have enabled our citizens to be freed from the yolk of self serving warmongering psychopaths who care nothing for the poor , disabled and needy .
      You will be revered as head of our freedom fighters

    73. manandboy says:

      With both Brexit and Scottish Independence, there is an elephant in the room, which, in the UK Media, is unmentionable. I refer to the attitudes associated with British Colonialism and The Empire, which run deep in the British Government and which have been constantly in play throughout the Brexit ‘negotiations’.

      In short, the British Government holds itself to be ‘Upper Class’, and the EU as ‘lower class’. The idea of the EU as being ‘equals’, or ‘partners’, is ridiculous among the British Ruling Class.

      The same Upper Class attitudes apply needless to say, to Scotland & Ireland, and are again unmentionable in the British Media.

      The British Establishment are the real ‘separatists’ in the Independence debate.

      Hail Caesar!

    74. wull2 says:

      I.B. 5 and 17

    75. Bill Hume says:

      The sprouts are prepare, the tatties are too,
      The turkeys near done and I’m half fu’
      I’m expecting my Daughter and my Son in Law too,
      My Mother in law’s here, what more can I do?
      Well there’s the stuffing and carrots and Yorkies too
      And forget not the wine that must be chilled through.
      I’ve just done my best, I hope it’s OK,
      If it’s not then tough titty, that’s all I can say.
      But, fellow wingers, this I must say,
      The way forward next year will hard tough and grey.
      But we will go forward and walk hand in hand.
      And next year deliver a free, proud Scotland.

      As I may have mentioned……I’ve had a few.

    76. yesindyref2 says:

      Hehe. Well, I always like to be a little controversial.

      So what you get is praise and thanks from the pollytichuns for the armed forces who are on duty, the emergency services, the public services and of course the NHS.

      But what you don’t hear about is those in the private sector, power workers keeping the electricity on and the gas workers, all keeping that oven on to cook the turkey. Nor do you hear of the water workers still keeping the water flowing and safe. Or in communications, your phones, radio, TV, maybe on shift, or on callout not being able to drink just in case. Nor those in a security role, also often privatised. Or those keeping the ATMs flowing money, pubs do open on Christmas Day.

      Nor also those on oil rigs, in maintenance, or even working in shops still, on Christmas Day. I know of a Spar shop, Christmas Day is their best day of the year, booze mostly I expect. Or delivery drivers, bringing in truckloads for the Boxing Day sales, and even deliveries to supermarkets and other shops.

      Nor of course those intelligence operatives, the Army of the lost 77th Legion for instance – do they rest on Festers? So far it seems!

      To all, I hope your families if you have one are happy, and that you get to see them!

    77. Gary45% says:

      For all wingers who watched Brenda by the piano!!!!
      Feast your ears on this classic.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP6B6Y9mVdk

    78. The poor Queen having to work on Christmas day. Does she get double time?

      Gord bless err an all shes does for us poor commoners.

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brexit has exposed the embarrassing fact that contemporary British nationalism is simply a repackaging of English nationalism. It is inescapably illiberal and totalitarian in nature, when viewed from the perspective of non-residents of England. This is a very difficult observation for Britnats to handle, as it also exposes the fact that British nationalism obliterates the “agency” of all but residents of England. This is not a healthy state of affairs and is indicative of authoritarian nationalism, i.e. fascism.

      Merry Christmas England, or should that be “England, get a grip of your cultural essentialism and cultural anxiety”.

      Cultural Essentialism and Cultural Anxiety
      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177

      Understanding More Fully: A Multimodal Hermeneutic-Phenomenological Approach
      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14780887.2013.853854

      Tyranny and mental health
      https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/72/1/1/272832

    80. TJenny says:

      CBB – man, you’ve spoiled us with that braw Merry Christmas message. 😉

    81. Effijy says:

      What a load of Bull Shit from Queenie about mutual respect with her Commonwealth members!

      God old war mungering England killed over 10 Million people will concoring the wealth of the common people of far flung nations.

      Men, Women, Children and the Infirm driven into the sea, starved to death, had killer diseases
      Inflicted upon them and the luckier ones hung or shot while England’s wealthy filled their gready
      Pockets.

      Let’s hope it’s the last Xmad where Scotlabd lives under the heal of the great suppressor!

      Merry Xmas to the Rev and all who work toward the common good of Scotland!

    82. CameronB Brodie says:

      TJenny
      Though I’m not a religious person, the spirit of Brexit is the antipathy of the Christian message, IMHO. 😉

      Decolonizing Culture in Community Psychology: Reflections from Critical Social Science

      Abstract
      Since its inception, community psychology has been interested in cultural matters relating to issues of diversity and marginalization. However, the field has tended to understand culture as static social markers or as the background for understanding group differences. In this article the authors contend that culture is inseparable from who we are and what we do as social beings. Moreover, culture is continually shaped by socio-historical and political processes intertwined within the globalized history of power. The authors propose a decolonizing standpoint grounded in critical social science to disrupt understandings of cultural matters that marginalize others. This standpoint would move the field toward deeper critical thinking, reflexivity and emancipatory action. The authors present their work to illustrate how they integrate a decolonizing standpoint to community psychology research and teaching. They conclude that community psychology must aim towards intercultural work engaging its political nature from a place of ontological/epistemological/methodological parity.

      Key words: culture, colonialism, critical theory, decolonizing standpoint, autoethnography, critical ethnography.

      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/10832896.pdf

    83. Meindevon says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood Re your cider, if it’s proper job scrumpy stuff just don’t light a match near it!

      Merry Christmas to all.

      Not long now. Keep the faith, I see you all getting restless up there. It’s coming and you have an amazing woman in charge who I am sure is hunkered down waiting for just the right moment to pounce.

    84. Dan Huil says:

      Like the smelly ugliness of a crock’s decay this rancid so-called united kingdom, like the greasy monarchy, is deserving of oblivion.

      Ahhh, bisto. Ahhh, the liberty of Liebfraumilch.

    85. Richard Hunter says:

      Same with the eradication of all Scottish origin labelling from foods in supermarkets. Pretty soon we’ll all just be British and we wont have any need to cater for separate regions. or something..

    86. Terry says:

      Radio 4 reporting that families at loggerheads over brexit at Xmas dinner. Queenie droning on about unity.

      Meantime in scotia everyone I know is united against brexit and those who voted no in 2014 have moved to yes.

      No room for complacency though as a lot of mainly working class Indy 14 voters have gone from yes to no. Which is why Nicola is a wise woman letting the full shit of brexit reveal itself – most of them will swing back behind yes.

      And if we remain in the eu? I predict we will retain a good lot of no to yes voters. Once the blinkers are off re Brit Nat Establishment there’s no going back.

      Indy ref 2 sept 19. And we will win.

    87. Tam face somewhere says:

      ==================================================
      Terry says:
      25 December, 2018 at 6:49 pm
      No room for complacency though as a lot of mainly working class Indy 14 voters have gone from yes to no.
      ==================================================

      Got a source for “a lot” of people going from Yes to No? That statement doesn’t mirror what I am seeing…..

    88. Ghillie says:

      HAPPY HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE 🙂

      Whispers…

      but they might hear us at Hogmanay =)

    89. Bobp says:

      Twathater 3.46pm. If a body could click likes on this post.you’d be in the thoosands

    90. Lollysmum says:

      Merry Christmas Stu. Hope 2019 pans out better than 2018 did for you. Eat drink & be merry then it’s back to the grindstone for you ?

    91. Vestas says:

      I hope you all had a happy & peaceful day.

      For those who didn’t I hope you have better days ahead.

    92. Terry says:

      @tam.
      Yes. I did the door knocking Snp survey for snp St. Andrews day after brexit. Was gutted by some responses. But I am speaking about working class areas in Aberdeen. We will win them back. Probably already a few back in the fold anyway.

      Basically Nicola is a canny lass. We will get there.

    93. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @meinDevon (6.07) –

      Hey friend, be ye male, female, whatever, I wish ye the bestest and thnaks muchly for reminding me that I have the still vintage cider material as I am not lonng home and am fu’ ay cider was getting worried about having no more for later.

      May your Gods bless youy and yours, and I do thank you very kindly.

      🙂

    94. dramfineday says:

      It’s late in the day and the old Drams have just tidied away. The young Drams have gone home and taken the little Drams with them. Christmas is nearly over for another year but not to late, I hope, to wish you all the peace of the day and the love of the season.

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      Might those who’ve have switched from Yes to No, been persuaded by the inescapably pro-Brexit media? Has the BBC in Scotland said anything against Brexit?

      Brexit is the bastard offspring of fundamentalist, neo-liberal, economic bollocks Thatcherism, mated with essentialist, English culturalism that has reached uncivilised proportions. Brexit exposes the structural and institutional racism that is Britain’s colonial legacy.

      N.B. As fascism is illiberal in nature, it requires state assistance in order to gain social acceptance.

      The Role of Cultural Identity Clarity for Self-Concept Clarity, Self-Esteem, and Subjective Well-Being

      Abstract

      Knowing oneself and experiencing oneself as clearly defined has been linked to positive self-esteem and psychological well-being; however, this association has been tested only at the level of personal identity. The authors propose that a clear cultural identity provides the individual with a clear prototype with which to engage the processes necessary to construct a clear personal identity and, by extension, to achieve self-esteem and well-being. For samples of undergraduate students, Anglophone Quebecers, Francophone Québécois, Chinese North Americans, and Aboriginal Canadians, cultural identity clarity was positively related to self-concept clarity, self-esteem, and markers of subjective well-being. The relationship between cultural identity clarity and both self-esteem and well-being was consistently mediated by self-concept clarity. Interventions designed to clarify cultural identity might have psychological benefits for individuals facing cultural identity challenges.

      Keywords culture and self, identity, self-concept, self-esteem, well-being

      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0146167210372215

    96. Elizabeth Sutherland says:

      Merry Xmas Stu.
      All Wingers and lukers. As *someone* once said “A dream can never die” some dreams keep recurring and eventually become reality. Keep on working towards your dream.

    97. Bobp says:

      CameronB brodie .8.25pm . “Fundamentalist,neo liberal,essentialist English Culturism.instituionalism. f**k you have confused at least a quarter of the loyal zombies in Scotland with that post.

    98. Kangaroo says:

      Best wishes to all Wingnuts for a great Xmas and may the New Year bring eternal happiness to all.

    99. schrodingers cat says:

      dont like turkey, we eat venison at xmas. we have eaten our way through all of santas reindeer

      Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, Blitzen, Rudolph, Robbie, Olive and Boaby the brown nose reindeer (he is behind Rudolph and not very good at stopping)

    100. schrodingers cat says:

      still to go

      Fireball, son of Blitzen,
      Clarice
      Scratcher, who was originally planned to lead Santa’s team before Rudolph was chosen.
      Santa’s backup team:
      Steven, Fluffy, Horace, Chantel, Skippy, Rainbow, Patches, and Montel.
      Rusty, Rudolph’s younger brother.
      Vixen’s husband Frost and daughter Holly.
      Niko, son of Prancer
      Oona wife of Prancer
      Jonni step brother of Niko
      (Oona marries a reindeer named Lenni)
      Thrasher is Dasher’s second cousin

    101. schrodingers cat says:

      Olive (the other reindeer)

    102. CameronB Brodie says:

      Bobp
      That may be the case Bob but my action* wasn’t intentionally evil, honest. 😉

      * the result of effective agency**.

      ** having the means to turn thoughts and intentions into practical reality.

      Scotland voted to remain in the EU but England voted to leave. Subsequently, Scotland will get what England demands. That’s not a union of equals, that’s old-skool colonialism. As such, British nationalism is undeniably a threat to Scotland’s public health.

      Those who continue to support the yoonyawn are apparently unable to allow their ethics to rise above their own prejudices (see HistoryWoman, for example). Then again, they may simply be racists or Tories, or both.

      All the best folks, there’s better to come. 🙂

    103. Capella says:

      Hope you all had a happy day. I certainly did and now settling down to a nightcap and catch up with the wit and wisdom of WoS.

      @ CBB – it occurred to me earlier today that fascism was feudalism with Hugo Boss couture.
      No I hadn’t been drinking.

    104. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      More power tae ye mister, ah hear ye, no matter how difficult ye make it at times!

      Bestest tae you and yours, as aye!

      🙂

    105. CameronB Brodie says:

      Capella
      Hugo Boss? Is that Gucci for populists? 😉

    106. Cactus says:

      Merry C and Happy Birthday to the son of the immaculate mama, she is good, Mary was a beautiful goddess.

      And SO tomorrow is Stallone Day… aint it strange that in this here 21st century, things are returning to when it was originally necessitated.

      Boxing Day / Food banks.

      Same shit, different century:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btPJPFnesV4

    107. Bobp says:

      Hugo boss’s grandfather designed the uniforms for hitlers ss.

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Cheers mate. I’m not trying to make things difficult, it’s just that investigating cultural morphology is tricky. I’m also very out of practice and still lack the confidence to outline more case-specific synthesis of theory with experiential reality. I’m still relying on the good will of readers, to a large extent, and their ability to make inferential leaps of understanding.

    109. Capella says:

      @ CBB you need a smart uniform to look efficient. Bobp explains. 🙂

    110. Bobp says:

      Google hugo boss ‘denazification.. explains everything. And the plebs still buy H B aftershave/clothes etc.

    111. Leslie Rutherford says:

      Image dying swan ?
      lgr

    112. Bobp says:

      Sorry wingers, I always go off on one now and again, and again and again and again……a

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      As we are talking about totalitarianism, well I am, here’s one for Britnats like J K Rowling to consider. Well, they’re always pointing to Orwell as intellectual bastion of liberalism and defender against the evil of nationalism.

      AFTER ORWELL: TOTALITARIAN FEARS AND THE ENGLISH POLITICAL NOVEL, 1950-2010

      ABSTRACT
      After Orwell: Totalitarian Fears and the English Political Novel, 1950-2010 gives a coherent account of the English political novel after World War II, a critical narrative absent from current scholarship. I contend that George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949), a touchstone for political fiction, is underwritten by Orwell’s conflicted attitude toward politics: despite embracing politics as the necessary means to genuinely improve people’s lives, he also remained suspicious of politics’ apparently inherent potential to diminish or even eliminate autonomy. Orwell’s simultaneous attraction and vigorous resistance to politics, I argue, is tied to broader contemporaneous anxieties over political and cultural totalization. Such fears reverberate throughout postwar English political fiction. To substantiate this claim, my project reads an assortment of political novels against the political convulsions and reorientations following the Second World War. Orwellian apprehensions over totalizing systems and theories serve as a common thread for otherwise wide-ranging novelistic engagements with politics in the postmodern, multicultural, and globalized contexts of postwar England.

      http://scholarworks.uark.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1739&context=etd

    114. mac says:

      Hello to all wingers

    115. Effijy says:

      The Sun toilet paper just surpassed itself
      with a story where “Experts” report that even
      After England carry out any form of Brexit and
      Even if Scotland becomes Independent, they
      Will overtake France to become the world’s 6th
      Wealthiest nation.

      Not only that utter Bollocks but they will stay there
      For at least 10 years.

      PS Scotland only represents 7.7% of the U.K.
      Economy so losing Scotland’s true wealth and
      Walking off an economic cliff will miraculously
      Made England much stronger????

      The Tooth Fairy, the Abominal Snowman and the
      Loch Ness Minster hope reconsider their Report in
      2030, if Donald Trump doesn’t own England by then?

    116. Dr Jim says:

      7.7% of the UK economy Mbwaahahahahah! They really do keep trying even on Christmas day for God sake

    117. TJenny says:

      Effijy – I think that’s a really good sign. Already they’re preparing the non Scottish electorate to accept that they can live very well without Scotland. Whay, hay. 😉

    118. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. the semiotics of totalitarianism, i.e. the ideological landscape of cultural hegemony, transmitted through visual media. I don’t think it’s a figment of my imagination that the Union Flag has become more prominent and psycho-socially intrusive since 2014. Think produce labeling in supermarkets, for example.

      Visual Persuasion and Politics: Ideology and Symbols of the Totalitarian Regimes’ – Case Study: Hammer and Sickle

      A B S T R A C T
      Unlike all other autocracies, authoritarian regimes are, as the ultimate form of authoritarianism, a distinct phenomenon of the modern era. Caused by the crisis of liberal democracy and industrial capitalism of the early twentieth century, and led by radical populist political movements/parties and their leaders, they established themselves as the regimes which marked one of the greatest degrees of unfreedom. The article analyzes the specific sociostructural, sociocultural and sociopsychological aspects of the formation of totalitarian regimes (particularly communism), as well as their political system, ideological foundations and modus operandi. In doing so, it particularly emphasizes the dissolution of civil society and its substitution by a political society as a key structural determinant, authoritarianism and fear as a sociopsychological basis, and repression as the functional basis of operation for totalitarian regimes.

      In that context, it analyzes the political, anthropological and visual aspects of the symbols of totalitarian regimes, their archetypal (mythological, religious, ethnic, cultural, historical) meaning, and explains their function (political, anthropological, sociocultural, and sociopsychological) in the development and preservation of totalitarian regimes. Using the example of the hammer and sickle, a typical symbol of communism, it shows a substantial and communicational (particularly visual) dimension of symbol, by breakdown by the elements of semiotics (signum, designatum, interpretant) and its sub-disciplines (semantics, pragmatics, sintactics). On this basis, it tries to show the decisive power of political symbols over the political perceptions and political behavior of individuals and entire social groups, i.e. their manipulative power by meanings assigned to them by totalitarian authorities and forms of their communication, with the goal of preserving the totalitarian regime.

      Key words: political anthropology, social anthropology, visual anthropology, totalitarian regime, totalitarianism, authoritarianism, ideology, communism, political symbols, heraldry

      https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/153836

    119. Cactus says:

      Hey, good to see and hear from you Cameron.

      Missed ye bro, cheers 🙂

      “Rising up…”

    120. Lenny Hartley says:

      Cameron b Brodie first of all imi pished, secondly missed your posts of this forum, domt understand much of what you say but occasonally something gets through, keepit up mate!
      Have a good one,

    121. CameronB Brodie says:

      Lenny Hartley
      Seasoned besht wishes to you Lenny.

    122. CameronB Brodie says:

      Cactus
      Thanks mate.

    123. Kangaroo says:

      Something to mull over.

      “The truth about the EU Brexit, Illuminati, Rothschild”

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LLGwfKnrH3c

      This was made in July 2015.

      Accuse’s the Saxe-Coburgs of Treason, no less. Hmmmm I need to give this some more thinking time.

    124. Cactus says:

      Prison Break, Season too, again…

      Semper Fi.

      Semper Vigilo.

      Sola Nobilitas Virtus.

      Ad Summa Nitor.

      Apprendre 😉

    125. Cactus says:

      To think, is to believe…

      Have they shown it yet dis year…?:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNhvkEju6NI

      We own midnight Scotland.

      Bonus is good.

    126. Cactus says:

      Twas the morning after Christmas 2018 (Foodbank Day 26/12/XX)

      And awe thru the hoose.

      Not a vodka was stirred (not even a Grouse)

      Just a Misty Isled gin…

      Mwah Nicola xxx.

    127. Cactus says:

      American Dad’s, Klaus, was just asleep for seventeen hours there on itvtoo+1 hehe.

      THIS year is not over yet!

      Look lively.

    128. Cactus says:

      Hey Scotland, mon in and gie us a song, wur on ur holidays!

      Here’s the Westminster storm that wur ridin’:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJZTgynPGT8

      Aye nominate YOU next CameronB Brodie 🙂

    129. Cactus says:

      NOW is the TIME to GET real:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to1xT93IlUI

      Nae mair fuckin’ about.

      X.

    130. Cactus says:

      And a Merry Christmas too you too (Westminster)

      Hey, yeah we’re doing just fine.

      That’s Scotland that IS.

      That’s the word.

    131. Cactus says:

      ***** SELF IMPOSED INTERMISSION HE HE HE *****
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2V-rfkl0g

      Let’s do this Scotland!

    132. Cactus says:

      Aaand back, SO, who’s next…?

      It might be me, or your butt baby,

      Ah reckon Dr Jim is with us right NOW… 🙂

      But is it a 101 or 999’er call?

      Who ye gonnae call?

    133. Cactus says:

      Whom you gonnae call, cause aye can see you:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eglgj77T0rk

      Ahhhhh, evergreen YouTube video.

      We are here.

    134. yesindyref2 says:

      The Westminster Tory and Labour MPs are so useless, that when they troop in for a session it takes them half an hour to find the no-smoking seats,

    135. Cactus says:

      Aye yay we have life uponst, a fine marnin tae ye yesindyref2

      Be ye grand?

    136. Cactus says:

      Ahm smokin’ a ciggy indoors…

      Ahm a bad boy.

      2019.

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      @Cactus
      Good Morning.

      When a division is called in the House of Commons, what do the Tory and Labour MPs do?

      Use a calculator.

      It’s a Cracker!

    138. Cactus says:

      What, yeah ah bit like this yes: 😉
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ2X9SANsME

      It’s madness!!!

    139. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm …

      What’s the one favourite card game of Tory and Labour MPs?

      Cheat and snap.

      I’m awa to my pit 🙂

    140. Cactus says:

      G’night yesindyref2, cheers bro. 😉

      Think ah’ll keep powerin’ on thru until Nana awakens with the am.

      Imagine Scotland becomes independent next year!!!

      Wow, think about that iDateline 2018 Wednesday.

      Good morning YOU.

    141. Cactus says:

      Imagine Scotland becomes independent next year.

    142. Cactus says:

      Imagine.

    143. Cactus says:

      Imagine Scotland.

    144. Cactus says:

      Fuck!

    145. Cactus says:

      The fuck flag is on, it’s up hehe.

      It’s 5 inda marnin’

      Scotland!

    146. Cactus says:

      There be a quiz show on C4…

      Solve the puzzle?

      9 letters.

      C U N T D O W N O.

      R K X O E S T D U.

    147. Cactus says:

      TC ur up on the board.

      T C A I B M S A U.

      30 seconds…

    148. Cactus says:

      Nummers…

      9 6 3 4 3 1

      584

      Do it!

    149. Cactus says:

      Rachel R is a fake!

      Ahhh ha ha ha.

      Be still.

    150. Cactus says:

      New letters…

      H O W Y E D O I N?

      😉

    151. Cactus says:

      W F E O J V E S T

      JEST

    152. Cactus says:

      I A I D S Q O S W

      SAID

    153. Cactus says:

      One large…

      75 7 3 3 7 1

      306

      Yes.

    154. Cactus says:

      E I D H S O P R C

      SOPHIE

    155. Cactus says:

      L R E I M D N A U

      Aye

    156. Cactus says:

      6 small…

      3 6 1 7 3 7

      518

      7x3x1x2x7 = 518 🙂

    157. Cactus says:

      A C T A G E I S T

      Any buddy?

    158. Cactus says:

      3rd gear an ready ANY time YOU ARE SCOTLAND.

      Wur on oor holidays.

      Castigate.

    159. Cactus says:

      Y R E I N R G A T

      GNAT

    160. Cactus says:

      56 too 49

      S L R M E O I E A

      Single Lens Reflex

    161. Cactus says:

      Susy Dent, she’s a sexy lady mwah xx.

    162. Cactus says:

      Susie Dent!

      G T U O H R L A U

      GROUT

    163. Cactus says:

      Back in the GAME

      Final letters please..

      V G N E O P D A N

      DAN

    164. Cactus says:

      Final nummers. Too large!

      50 25 6 4 3 7

      458

      50x25x6x4x3x7=independence

      Not written down

    165. Cactus says:

      P H O T O F O R M

      =

      M O T H P R O O F

      80 vs 82.

    166. Cactus says:

      And that was that.

    167. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cactus why are you torturing my brain at this hour in the morning?

      Merry Christmas young ‘un , may your energy never waver!

    168. yesindyref2 says:

      How many Tory and Labour MPs does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

      None, they prefer to work in the dark.

    169. Dr Jim says:

      You’re some man for the one man Cactus

    170. Ghillie says:

      Hey there Cactus and Dorothy =)

      Happy days to you both and anyone else in here with us.

      Coorie in, it’s chilly out there.

      With a bit of luck there will be no news and Nana can have a lie in =)

    171. Ghillie says:

      Oh hallo Yesindyref2 and Dr Jim!

      ‘Like to work in the dark’ =)

      What? They work you say?

    172. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ghillie , and to you ! And I second your wishes for Nana!

      May 2019 be a good year for Scotland and all those who wish to call her home.

    173. Liz g says:

      Oh my we’re all early birds this morning.
      Cept Cactus who is clearly up late..
      Hi to everyone…..
      Hope you all have a chilled out day!

      Boxing Day… the best day of the year, cause it’s the farthest away from next Christmas ye can get!!

    174. Liz g

      Cheers – another early riser this morning!

      I think my house is actually too warm tonight. Have visitors staying from the South and they are cold- hence heating on overnight and I’m melting.

      Loved your comment – a full 364 days till next Christmas.

      but what will happen before then?

    175. Sounds like you’ve had a Happy Christmas Cactus.

      Roll on 2019 – the Year of Freedom

    176. Capella says:

      Good morning early birds. We need an independence day advent calendar.
      I looked at the newspaper front pages on the BBC website but it’s all photos of Dukes and Duchesses. News from the English shires from a previous century.

      The BBC never has the Scottish front pages till later. Must have them driven down to London by courier.

    177. Capella –

      Mair like Carrier Pigeon!

    178. gus1940 says:

      HM Xmas Broadcast – usual Commonwealth Bollocks.

      What does it do and ho much does it cost the taxpayer?

      The only times we hear of it is the Broadcast, periodic conferences and the interminable Royal Visits.

    179. gus1940 says:

      Watching the BBC Review of 2018 i.e.who has died during the year – it would appear that no Scot has died whose death was worth reporting.

    180. Robert Peffers says:

      @Meg merrilees says: 26 December, 2018 at 7:29 am:

      ” … Mair like Carrier Pigeon!”

      Well it used to be like this:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H3jGjmPWX4

      Sometimes progress goes backwards.

      The Main GPO at the east end of Prince’s Street had a direct tunnel connection to The Waverley Station London platform and they had the mail ready to go when the Royal Mail Train thundered in. It took just minutes to load the mail and set-out full steam ahead.

      The mail was sorted by hand as the express headed down to London overnight. That train also took the more classy broadsheet newspapers down south and you could buy a copy of the main Scottish papers in London before breakfast.

    181. Capella says:

      Still no Scottish front pages on the BBC but there is this upful tale of a miner’s son from Whitburn who rose to great heights in America.

      How one man’s eureka moment earns Disney $3bn a year – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46546014

    182. wull2 says:

      Lets give the people who keep us informed on this site a rest for a week, time for you to tell us anything, as long as its legal and not too rude.
      Like the bike you had to build because that man in the red suit left it and forgot to build it.
      Did you manage it, YES

    183. Ghillie says:

      Hey there.

      Let today be a lovely day folks =)

      You deserve it 🙂

    184. jfngw says:

      Homelessness in Scotland reduced last year by 6%. But if you use the GERS calculation method, allocating a percentage from elsewhere, it has gone up. Better Together!

    185. Meindevon says:

      I dropped my lad down to our local Wetherspoons yesterday and who should be coming out but Brexiteer extraordinaire Mr Wetherspoon himself, Tim Martin.

      Unfortunately he was gone before I parked up or I would have shook his hand and thanked him for his efforts to greatly increase the chances of Scotland becoming a normal self governing country. It would have been interesting to know if he even considered that it might be a consequence of his hard Brexit wishes.

    186. Clapper57 says:

      To @ yesindyref2

      Hi saw your comment to me on a previous thread ( Satans little helper).

      Sorry did not respond…..just want to say…think you are sound as a bell too…..I know RJS sound too……I feel really bad about the way I responded to him, was crass and unnecessary, but he was most gallant in his response to me….relieved as he is one of the posters on here that I respect….amazing how one can misread the written word …..I am not normally so confrontational on here…..honest !!

      All the best to you , hope you have good day today and thank you.

    187. Capella says:

      Is everyone in recovery?

      While the British press drool over Dukes and Duchesses, Zerohedge posts an article on the Integrity Initiative and its bizarre methods.
      Why is there little investigation in the UK into this anti-democratic military intelligence operation with a false address at a derelict mill in Fife? Shouldn’t OSCR be concerned?

      https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-25/inside-temple-covert-propaganda-integrity-initiative-uks-scandalous-information-war

    188. galamcennalath says:

      Scotsman … headline …

      “UK to leapfrog France to become 6th biggest economy year after Brexit “

      … which sounds highly improbable, but the first sentence in article ….

      “France will overtake the United Kingdom to become the world’s sixth biggest economy next year as the impact of Brexit bites, a reports has said.”

      Someone gets paid to write stuff with mistakes like this!?

    189. Jim says:

      Historywoman
      ? @2351onthelist
      Dec 25

      Have a look at his profile picture. His allegiance isn’t to Scotland. It is to a foreign country, Ireland. Any surprise there? There are far too many of them who hate the U.K. a lot more than they love Scotland.
      __
      Without a sense of irony she accuses someone else of having an allegiance to another country.

    190. ronnie anderson says:

      Cappella 11.40am . Interesting read , i’ve contacted OSCR & would urge everyone who reads the piece to use the contact page & complain to OSCR , a clear breach of OSCR rules
      ie starting with false address & political promotion .(https://www.oscr.org.uk/search/charity-details?number=SC040870#results )

      Cmon Wingers lets shut these people down .

    191. wull2 says:

      Here is a challenge for the cleaver wingers out there ( you will notice I don’t have one ) is it possible to create an APP to produce a simple profile picture for here, like a background of the Scotland flag and a simple message that you can add, like YES and your home area.

    192. yesindyref2 says:

      Ohmigud! Putting down Scotsman below the line commenters is like shooting fish in a barrel. It’s a nasty job but someone has to do it to have an enormous gut-wrenching laugh.

      @Clapper57
      You too.

    193. Capella says:

      @ ronnie – complaint submitted. 🙂

    194. ronnie anderson says:

      Cappella I be on the phone tomorrow to Dundee to make sure they are taking action on this ( aw fek no ronnie anderson again ) lol , chist kidding ah hiv a h good relationship wie OSCR , but hey know from past experience ah wont be fobbed of .

    195. Proud Cybernat says:

      An Open Letter to Ruth ‘No to a 2nd Independence Referendum’ Davidson.

      Dear Ruth,

      You’re screwed. Totally screwed.

      I had some friends round for Christmas drinks and, inevitably, the discussion turned to politics and, naturally, Brexit. Since 2014 we generally avoided discussing politics because we simply would not see eye-to-eye. We agreed to differ, set politics aside and otherwise, continued with our long-standing friendship.

      But my god, Ruth! In 2014 these 4 people were hard-line NO voters; wealthy but not stupidly so. These were people who were doing very well as part of the EU, travelling there regularly to conduct business. These are your typical Tory voters. YOUR voters, Ruth.

      Brexit has changed everything, Ruth. All four of my friends are desperate to Remain in the EU and certainly do not want Scotland to be disadvantaged against N.I. But if remaining in the EU and Scotland is to be at an economical disadvantage to N.I., then THREE of them want a 2nd IndyRef and will vote YES to ensure we have a route back into the EU. My fourth has moved from hard NO to don’t know but I could tell by her concern that even she will probably vote YES next time, Ruth.

      That is what you are doing to Scotland, Ruth. The last thing my Don’t Know friend said to me was this, “It’s ironic, isn’t it. Brexit has divided the UK but it has United Scotland.” I couldn’t agree with her more.

      Your party has given me a totally unexpected Christmas pressie, Ruth and I thank you for that. And if my conversation is typical at Christmas dinner tables right across Scotland then it is little wonder that you and your London boss want to stop the people of Scotland having a say on their future. But a say we WILL have and you will not stop us.

      Merry Christmas, Ruth.

    196. Dr Jim says:

      Today the media tells us to feel sorry for the retailers who are having to slash their prices by up to 70% to make up for the rest of the years losses, that includes the giant supermarkets who are reducing the price of food by the same percentages, 50% off joints of meat, 70% off chicken and turkeys

      Get down to the high street and buy clothes, shoes, accessories all at massively reduced prices

      Yet all these people doing us these whopping great favours on boxing day are still making a profit even after their price slashings

      So what does that tell us about these peoples practices the rest of the year that they can afford to do this, and there are a couple of words for it

      Profiteering bastirts

      So no my heart doesn’t bleed and I don’t feel in the slightest bit sorry for retailers who artificially inflate prices whilst holding down the price they pay the suppliers/farmers and at the same time making decent food and clothing unaffordable for many the rest of the year

      Then when they don’t make a squillion £ profit just close their doors and bugger off to the Bahamas on their yachts or take their seats in the House of Lords and moan about the state of retailing while they leave behind unemployed and poorer people because they didn’t manage their workers pension schemes honestly either

      Then the media proudly inform us that *Britain* is the fifth largest economy in the world, well no wonder it is, thing is the ordinary people don’t get the benefit of that we’re just forced to create that wealth for the profiteering bastirts who rob us year after year to create the wealth divide that the media then tell us is a terrible thing, but go out now and buy buy buy and make Britain great again

    197. jfngw says:

      @Jim

      2351onthe list, I wonder which list this is, SIU, OO, KKK. Maybe it’s the university KKK branch, who knows.

      What is certain is they are in panic mode, a well know dog food proponent is now reduced to calling us f*ckers on twitter.

    198. Jim says:

      Why are my comments now awaiting moderation?

    199. Bill Hume says:

      Like Proud Cybernat at 1:51pm, I am also finding more and more friends looking at the Scottish independence option in a much more favourable light.
      This is all anecdotal of course but significant.
      When battle is joined (and it will be a battle) let us not forget the great strength of the independence movement…..feet on the street, and lots of them.
      Personal contact and the knowledge to counter the unionist arguments will convert many to our cause.

      It’s been said before but bears repeating ‘once eyes are opened to the lies and deceit of the Westminster government, they can no longer unsee the truth’

      We don’t need to open many eyes to ensure we win IndyRef2 and we only need to open them one pair at a time.

    200. Colin Stuart says:

      Your sharp-eyed diligence and crap-detecting analysis is most of what’s kept me sane this last year, so the best of Christmases to you and yours. A year from now, may we all be breathing the air of freedom and buckling down to the creation of the right, free, sane, humane Scotland we all need and deserve.

    201. Capella says:

      @ ronnie – great – keep us posted. 🙂

    202. galamcennalath says:

      Bill Hume says:

      This is all anecdotal of course but significant.

      Indeed. Consider the inverted logic. How often do we hear about Yessers now they want to stay in the union? How many filling social media with declarations that Brexit UK is the way forward? Or celebs who were YES supporting but have since been so impressed by the sparkling arguments for the UK that they say they will be NO next time?

      Most importantly, if there were such people, would the BritNat media not be shouting about them from the roof tops?

      Nope! It’s a one way street. Many NO voters now see YES as the safe and sensible option. The undercurrent in society is there, under the surface.

      When we start to campaign with a vengeance, the consensus will shift firmly to independence.

      I also believe there is a tipping point where the consensus, normal, routine standpoint is for Indy. That in itself will move even more voters.

      The future is Scotland’s.

    203. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Looking ahead to next year, when Nicola finally calls Indyref2. I wonder what the Unionist defence will be.

      I forecast: They will immediately refuse the Section 30 order, then, when the Scottish Government says: “Sorry, we have a mandate from the Scottish Parliament to call this, so, with or without a Section 30, the referendum will happen.”

      There will then be HUGE pressure on the media to ignore it. We can take it as read, the Blue, Red and Yellow Tories will boycott it.

      If the media can be persuaded to simply ignore it, we will struggle to get out positive message abot Independence out. We will find it very difficult to show how Westminster has cheted us for years, and, persuading those – probably the maority of voters, who are not aware of how Scotland has been cheated for years, to get out and vote.

      It is going to be very-difficult, but, it is a fight we can, and MUST win.

    204. Jim says:

      @jfngw

      I never quite understood how an nonentity like dog-food boy became a poster-child for better together.

      Although I assume he and Blair McDougall were two of the patsies unimportant enough to sacrifice what little reputation they have or had, the real BT campaign was fought behind closed doors by people way more powerful.

      What they absolutely hate is the fact that the YES campaign was and is being fought at a grassroots level, will never subside and will grow exponentially as Brexshit tears the common man, woman and child’s lives to shreds.

      Hail Caesar!

    205. Clapper57 says:

      @ Proud Cybernat @ 1.51pm

      Hey Proud Cybernat….last year I wrote on here about a friend who voted Labour and who also voted No in Indy ref.

      He said last year that he would NEVER vote SNP or for Indy….however my hubby spoke to him in the pub last week after Hibs game and unbelievably he is , for first time EVER, considering voting SNP…..he is also considering may vote for Indy next time yep he is definitely wavering….he voted Remain in EU Ref and his eyes are now slowly but surely being opened to how Scotland is being treated by WM……and the MSM.

      Trust me he was a die hard Labour person and a Unionist..I think the penny has now dropped….He now feels that the UKOK political parties are NOT representing Scottish people and that now is the time, for him, to start voting for one that does.

      So if he and your friends are “typical” then the tide is definitely turning and no amount of Ruth and co’s “No to second Indy Ref” will stop it…or change the course that it is on.

      See Brexit…for many former No voting Scots….has been, for them, an epiphany moment in relation to Scotland’s democratic will NOT being respected as ‘part’ of UKOK.

      So ultimately for some Scots the realisation now is that the ‘will of the people’ is where they, as Scots, are excluded and ignored. The so called “people” being only those who live in the country whose population far exceeds all nations within UKOK and it is they, and they alone, who get to decide .

      Perhaps Brexit is but one bad decision too many….for friends like ours, and I am sure many other people’s friends too, Proud Cybernat.

    206. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmmm, I enjoyed that 🙂

      Never knew the Scotsman could be so much fun.

    207. ahundredthidiot says:

      Proud Cybernet @ 1:51

      Thanks for that – reminded me of two friends, one of which said, immediately prior to the 2014 Ref, that he would MOVE out of Scotland if a Yes vote was returned. I didn’t judge.

      Then Brexit came along. A full 180. They now have two kids at voting age. They will all be Yes votes for Indyref2.

      2019 needs to be the year.

    208. Breeks says:

      Brexit… Dividing the UK, but uniting Scotland.

      Got a bit of a ring to it…. I like it.

    209. Gary45% says:

      proud cybernat@1.51
      Cheers for the post, like you I am now engaging in discussions with the same type of “2014 No voter” who are now well and truly scunnered at the sheer ignorance shown to Scotland by the UK establishment, now well and truly YESSERS.
      The timing will be crucial for Indy2 and the “establishment” will try every underhand lie, hysterical propaganda that they have at their disposal, but we will be/are ready to combat any shit they try and throw, the country woke up in 2014, yes some still bury their heads in the sand, but more and more are waking up daily.

    210. Capella says:

      More on the Integrity Initiative. “Inside the Integrity Initiative, the UK gov’s information war on the public.” Excellent video with David Miller of Bristol University. A must watch 58 mins

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doip79-pYn0

    211. Proud Cybernat says:

      “There will then be HUGE pressure on the media to ignore it. We can take it as read, the Blue, Red and Yellow Tories will boycott it.”

      They can boycott it all they like, Socrates. Scotland has the legal right to determine its own form of Government. That right is enshrined in our Claim of Right and this was endorsed very recently even by WM. That right is our sovereign right that can never be taken from us.

      They may try and claim such a referendum (without S30) is illegal, but it simply isn’t because it is our fundamental and inalienable RIGHT and I’m sure the FM and other Scottish Ministers will be making the international community well aware of that fact.

      So if some parties boycott it – fine. It’ll simply make it easier for YES to win and win well. The important thing is that the IndyRef is legal and that everyone eligible to vote is given the right to vote. If some decline that right, that’s their democratic choice. But if they don’t like the result then they have no complaints if they refused to vote.

    212. CameronB Brodie says:

      Capella
      Thanks for bringing the Integrity Initiative to our attention. Deep state fascists. No real surprise, if you’ve had your eyes open since 9/11 and you’re not a complete moron.

      Fucking white supremacists. That’s institutional British nationalism for you.

    213. schrodingers cat says:

      62% of the vote on a 84% turn out is 2.25 million

      50% of total electorate

      they refuse us at the moment, although not completely, eg saying “not the now” in a news paper isnt the same as officially refusing a s30 request from the sg. this is because we are still 45-47% support in the polls. indeed, this is the main argument from the unionists to refuse us. (ie the majority dont want another referendum)

      if the polls were showing 60% for yes, and indyref2, the unionists wouldnt have this crutch, the higher the support for yes, the more difficult it is for wm to refuse a s30

    214. Capella says:

      @ CBB – thx – I assume that these people were active during Indyref1, in fact, since the beginning of time.

      So far, not a lot has emerged about their interference in Scotland even though their registered address, David Leask and the previously mentioned Conservative Chairman who donated £450,000 of dark money to the DUP have all popped up then quietly disappeared again.

      Let’s hope the next tranche of Anonymous docs are more revealing.

    215. Breeks says:

      If there’s an IndyRef, then more fool us.

      The BritNat media won’t blank it, don’t kid yourselves. They will pillory and vilify the SNP as enemies of the state, and every one of us will be smeared as seditious tractors-ed to the Empire and Queen. We’re all going to need a hide as thick as a rhinoceros, and a cure for our uniquely Scottish leprosy. Find something steady to hold on to.

      The media has already shown its capacity to erase one narrative altogether, (the SNP sponsored vote of No Confidence), and supplant the true narrative with a completely false one. The “Scottish” media has already shown us what to expect from its journalistic integrity.

      To hold a referendum in such circumstances is no test of Scotland’s will to be an independent country, but just a cynical yardstick to determine how far we’ve come since 2014, and how effectively the British Establishment can again manipulate the agenda to keep Scotland wrong footed and disorganised, fretting about whether Scotland’s oil will give us cancer or some other pish and garbage dreamt up by some think tank in London. Do you really think they will allow the madness of Brexit due prominence to propagate support for Independence?

      Got time for a lateral thinking paradox? If you want to save Scotland’s democracy, we need to suspend it for a while, secure first our Constitutional Sovereignty in Law, establish International Personality for Scotland, stay in Europe, and only when Scotland is secure in the cradle of Europe, remove our democracy from it’s quarantined stasis, and hold ourselves a ratification plebiscite after we have purged our airwaves of disruptive propaganda.

      I know it’s a paradox, but our democracy is compromised and in trouble. We must free it, then heal it, and only then trust it.

      But time factors I suspect will save us all from this ethical dilemma. For now, we have 92 days to save our European Citizenship and stay under the protective umbrella of the ECJ. It is Constitutional Law which we must put our faith in, not democracy. That is the only way to save our democracy in the time we have available.

      Grasp hold of our sovereignty and hold on for dear life. That is the default position where we change nothing, and leave the impetus for change as the reckless and culpable initiative of others. We stay in Europe by our resolute inaction. Let Westminster alone pay the price for its arrogant obstinacy and it’s faulty and unconstitutional Brexit misadventure.

    216. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      A Section 30 doesn’t legalise or not a referendum.It establishes that both sides will respect the reult

    217. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      O/T

      We had a hugely exceiting day of Scottish footbball. It is not on BBC Scotland -theough if coiurse we have full coverage of English Boxing Day competition.

    218. Golfnut says:

      @Shrodingers Cat.

      There we go, self determining parameters on how we achieve normalization by dissolving the union with England.

      The Claim of Right doesn’t erect barriers, its a simple statement. The people of Scotland get to decide on the choice of government, and Westminster agreed with that, not that any agreement was necessary. The UN also agrees with us, and the UK signed up to it

      The Claim of Right does not restrict or define a methodology, it doesn’t tell us we only get to decide once in a generation or that someone else gets a veto, or that we need permission before we make a decision.

      No matter which method we choose, Westminster will argue against the decision, and we will require international arbitration. Even if they do accept our decision, they will claim that we have broken the Treaty and claim compensation.

      The path that our Government has chosen, however slow and convoluted it may seem, is designed to protect us after we make the decision.

    219. Meindevon says:

      What I don’t get, from down here in deepest, darkest.., is why Scottish Labour MP’s, MSP’s, voters and members who want to stay in the EU and who want Indy (coz there must be quite a few surely) aren’t shouting for a change in policy or maybe even starting up an Indy Labour Party?

      You can add Tories to that too. There must be a few now who realise they’ve been had.

      I know the Scottish MSM keep a tight lid on things but there must be a fair few seeing the light.

    220. schrodingers cat says:

      it is said that political parties dont win elections, governments lose them. I think this is true in our situation

      corbyn came out this week and said that even if labour won a ge, he would still go ahead with brexit. (pete wishart tweeted that he had been told that private polling in the labour northern seats was dreadful for corbyn) labour remainer luvies, including jaykay were furious, refusing to fund or vote for a corbyn labour party.

      there then followed numerous tweets complaining about the failure of the fptp system which would leave 50% of the population (remainers) unable to vote for either of the 2 biggest parties.

      which is true, but I would argue that if they wanted this changed, they should have voted for a party proposing such a change in the last election. the next ge will be fought under the same fptp system as the last, no amount of whinging will change that.

      many labour remain voters were cutting up their membership cards and saying they were joining the greens/libdems and the snp.

      such anecdotal stories and other personal stories on this thread about movement towards our side are undoubtably true, and represent another nail in the unions coffin. they only question is how big is this nail?

      we can speculate, guess etc, but without proper polls we just dont know.

      but i take comfort in the fact that it isnt us hammering in this nail, it is london labour. we havent done anything, this isnt due to any clever campaigning on our part. labour are digging their own grave. i doubt there was much festive cheer in the slab ranks this xmas, few if any cards exchanged with london:)

      richard leonard is corbyns place man in scotland, so we now know his direction of travel, but i doubt all of his rank and file in scotland will follow him

    221. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Yeah, schrodingers cat.

      It’s like Labor and Labour in Scotland have a death wish.

      The phrase, “I didn’t leave the Labour Party, The Labour Party left me” is becoming more used…

      This can only be good for our struggle towards independence.

      Who they gonna vote for – ghostbusters?

    222. schrodingers cat says:

      Meindevon says:
      What I don’t get, from down here in deepest, darkest.., is why Scottish Labour MP’s, MSP’s, voters and members who want to stay in the EU and who want Indy (coz there must be quite a few surely) aren’t shouting for a change in policy or maybe even starting up an Indy Labour Party?

      You can add Tories to that too. There must be a few now who realise they’ve been had.
      ——————

      I think they are, indeed, i dont remember a time where their has been more dissent amongst supporters/mps etc of either the 2 biggest unionist parties

      mudel and ruth have threatened to resign more than once

    223. Cubby says:

      Two questions:

      1. Is Cactus a vampire or just an insomniac?

      2. Did the Queen really say yesterday that next years Xmas sprouts will henceforth be known as London sprouts and not Brussels Sprouts?

      It’s a strange world.

    224. schrodingers cat says:

      bdtt

      yup, remainers are running out of parties to vote for, indeed, hard core unionist remainers cant even vote for the greens, a libdem vote in glasgow or edinburgh is a waste, in the south of scotland it will split the tory vote 🙂

    225. Meindevon says:

      Thanks Brian D. Interesting links. They seem to be getting blanked by the media as much as the snp. Can’t imagine bbc or stv doing a half hour programme on Westminster run parties wanting Indy.

    226. Capella @ 5.59 pm.

      Thank you for that link.

      This is almost as shocking as the situation with the BBC. It shows what we are up against

      The silence from the Broadcasters and the press tends to corroborate how deep and well organised this sinister group are.

      This sort of propaganda was thrown at us during indi 1 and will be used again no doubt.

      Newspeak and doublespeak 1984 has arrived.

    227. schrodingers cat says:

      fav tweet this xmas

      The Irish Border

      @BorderIrish
      Dec 25
      A backstop! I got a backstop!

      —————

      btw, we should use the term a “scottish backstop” rather than efta/eea membership or being in the cu/sm

      if its good enough for irish unionists, why not scottish ones

    228. Cactus says:

      Evening Cubby, in answer to yer question… Both and more hehe.

      Independence never sleeps, neither do aye.

      Have an excellent evening bro.

      “Aye vaunt your blood” 😉

      It’s the excitement!

    229. ronnie anderson says:

      Cubby Cactus is a imbiber in many establishments in Scotland & at this time of year there are 24 hour establishments an Cactus has a nose fur sniffing them oot .

      Chist dont faw doon in the pursuit Cactus .

    230. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Cubby at 8:49 pm.

      You asked,
      “Is Cactus a vampire or just an insomniac?”

      He seems to be one of that rare breed who finds pleasure in meandering through the streets of Glasgow when most peeps are asleep. He appears to attain joy from the meanderings so who are we to question his motives?

      At least, he keeps the main page alive when most of us are givvin’ it ZZZs.

    231. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      schrodingers cat @ 21:14,

      “Scottish backstop” applies to a Scotland begging for special consideration from a UK planning an imminent UKexit. (And a consideration it certainly won’t get.)

      Consequently it is a BritNat concept which should be anathema to any independence supporter. We are getting past the time for trying to make UKexit ever so slightly less unpalatable here.

      Now is coming the hinge time, when the increasing number of Remainers in Scotland, and not least the considerable number of No-Remainers, will have to decide which Union serves them best, the collective EU one, or the exploitative UK one.

      (It’s a no-brainer, as they say…)

    232. Giving Goose says:

      Re Meindevon

      I suspect that many who style themselves “Labour” are die hard British Nationalists.
      Despite his seemingly socialist credentials, Corbyn is a BritNat to his core.
      Labour in Scotland is a front for British Nationalism and all the nasty baggage that comes with it.

    233. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      “Ecossais, en avant!

      Always makes me greet when the pipes come in. Must be our national anthem. A tune written to remember the Scots troops who marched to save Joan of Arc from the English and founded the Auld Alliance… Must be our national anthem.It is revered across Europe and Europe is waiting for us.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WulAWn_N_O0&list=RDWulAWn_N_O0&index=1

    234. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Golfnut @ 20:07:

      The Claim of Right does not restrict or define a methodology, it doesn’t tell us we only get to decide once in a generation or that someone else gets a veto

      Well said. A reposte to the usual BritNat smokescreening that’s worth remembering and repeating.

    235. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jason Smoothpiece says: 26 December, 2018 at 9:05 pm:

      ” … The silence from the Broadcasters and the press tends to corroborate how deep and well organised this sinister group are.”

      Thing is that there comes a point when the absence of such news when people are swithering becomes self defeating.

      Put yourself in the shoes of a switherers who doesn’t like the ideas that Brexit must raise in such a person’s mind. If they do not get the information they need as reassurance then they will look for it outside of the Broadcasters and the dead tree press.

      There is much evidence that both such media outlets are losing viewers/listeners/readers in large numbers and there is good reason for that. So where and who will the switherers turn to? They sure as hell won’t get assurances from the leavers or the leavers’ controlled or owned media.

      They will turn to the YES movement sources and there the truth is all too obvious and there is ample proofs to be had there.

      I spoke with a old lifelong Labour voter a few weeks ago. He was still spouting Britnat claptrap and his main theme was what if the oil prices fall – what would an independent Scotland do then?

      I explained to him that not a single penny of the oil & gas revenues was part of the Scottish funding and he didn’t believe me. So I asked him to tell me what proportion of the oil & gas revenues were gathered by the Scottish Government. He, of course, couldn’t answer but said, “I’ll find out and let you know.”

      I said, good luck with that and I’ll remind you next time I see you. Well I saw him around ten days ago and reminded him of his promise. The upshot was he made the usual claim that the treasury counted 8.4% as being Scottish earned revenue.

      To cut a long discussion with him short – he now knows that every penny of the oil & gas revenues goes to Westminster and not a penny of his claimed 8.4% comes back to Scotland but is simply used as a factor when the treasury fiddles other statistics.

      It came as a shock to him just what is designated as, “Extra-Regio Territory”, and that up to 98% of oil & Gas Revenues comes out of Scottish territorial Waters that Westminster designates as those, “Revenues from Extra-regio Territories”.

      Mind you I haven’t spoken with him since but the look of shock on his face was enough to convince me I had sowed seeds of doubt in his mind and he was already swithering anyway.

    236. Robert Peffers says:

      On the subject of the virtual silence of the Britnat owned or controlled media. Can we perhaps call it, “The Silence of the Bams”?

    237. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi
      Dave McEwan Hill at 9:57 pm

      You typed,
      “Ecossais, en avant!

      Always makes me greet when the pipes come in. Must be our national anthem. A tune written to remember the Scots troops who marched to save Joan of Arc from the English and founded the Auld Alliance… Must be our national anthem.It is revered across Europe and Europe is waiting for us.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WulAWn_N_O0

      Somebody linked to that around 3 years ago and I locked on to it. I watch it around two or three times a year and yes, it makes my eyes lubricate when the pipes come in.
      Hey Tuttie Tatie…
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Tuttie_Tatie

    238. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      schrodingers cat @ 18:59::

      this is the main argument from the unionists to refuse us. (ie the majority don’t want another referendum)

      Well, that’s self-evidently an absurd argument. If more than 50% of the people of Scotland wanted independence, there would be no need for a referendum!

      Naturally all those who fear the likely result of a referendum will oppose it (and none more so than the dwindling band of BritNats in Scotland). So that’s obviously not the relevant determining criterion. For a referendum to be justified, all that’s necessary is there exist a significant number of people demanding one. As clearly applies here, and with the added justification of several layers of electoral mandate on top.

      Only in this way can a fundamental issue such as this be aired, tested and the true balance of public opinion discovered.

    239. Meindevon says:

      BD and DMcH re Scots Wha Hae.

      And that is why I love and am addicted to WoS. I learn something new every day on this blog.

      Thank you Rev and thank you to all you wonderful contributors especially Nana.

      Not long now. Here’s to 2019.

    240. Sarah says:

      DMH and BDTT – played several times a month in my house! Moist eyes every time. Loads of different European bands playing it are on YouTube – just goes to show that Scotland is more recognised in Europe than in UK.

    241. schrodingers cat says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      “Scottish backstop” applies to a Scotland begging for special consideration from a UK planning an imminent UKexit. (And a consideration it certainly won’t get.
      ————-
      absolutly, we wont get this. in which case, since the majority in scotland want it, why not support/demand it?
      it only undermines scottish indy if it is granted, and since you recognise that is not going to happen, then it is a populist and politically correct position to take. ie, it wins us votes
      ——————-
      this is the main argument from the unionists to refuse us. (ie the majority don’t want another referendum)

      i dont disagree with any of your last post, simply because the only points i was making were
      1. we are not 50% of the population
      2. when we are, the more support we have makes it more and more difficult for the unionists to refuse a s30

      i thought this was self evident

    242. schrodingers cat says:

      schrodingers cat says:

      Robert J. Sutherland

      I never said I agreed with the unionist position, I merely stated what it was.

    243. schrodingers cat says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      26 December, 2018 at 10:32 pm
      schrodingers cat @ 18:59::

      this is the main argument from the unionists to refuse us. (ie the majority don’t want another referendum)

      Well, that’s self-evidently an absurd argument.

      ————–

      true
      but that is their main argument against inndyref2. dont shoot the messenger, im merely stating the unionists main argument against indyref2. i never said it was logical, democratic etc, only this is what it is. understand?

    244. geeo says:

      Proud Cybernat said this..

      …..

      So if some parties boycott it – fine. It’ll simply make it easier for YES to win and win well. The important thing is that the IndyRef is legal and that everyone eligible to vote is given the right to vote.

      If some decline that right, that’s their democratic choice. But if they don’t like the result then they have no complaints if they refused to vote.
      ………..

      This takes me back to an opposition day motion vote at WM where, trying to make a mockery of the motion vote, the tories simply never turned up to vote.

      This backfired later, when the speaker made it absolutely clear that if the Government benches CHOSE to ‘not take part’ in a parliamentary vote, that could never take away from the vote, and Hansard would only ever reflect the mood of the house as expressed via the voting record.

      Same principle here.

    245. Cubby says:

      Cactus@9.25pm

      Nice one Cactus.

      Briandoonthetoon@9.37pm

      I certainly wasn’t questioning his motives. Just a light hearted comment.

    246. Cactus says:

      Roll on late Monday night… time tae put 2018 in the past, wur fair raring tae go 2019!

      Chistmas 2018 is over, Hogmanay is the main course for the New Year.

      That’s when previous no voters realise who they really are.

      Meet ma friends:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WlON7r0m7E

      Aye Love garlic.

    247. twathater says:

      @ Breeks 7.35pm ( said If you want to save Scotland’s democracy, we need to secure first our Constitutional Sovereignty in Law, establish International Personality for Scotland, stay in Europe, and only when Scotland is secure in the cradle of Europe, remove our democracy from it’s quarantined stasis, and hold ourselves a ratification plebiscite after we have purged our airwaves of disruptive propaganda.

      But time factors I suspect will save us all from this ethical dilemma. For now, we have 92 days to save our European Citizenship and stay under the protective umbrella of the ECJ. It is Constitutional Law which we must put our faith in, not democracy. That is the only way to save our democracy in the time we have available. ) END

      To me this is of paramount importance , we are heading ever more speedily towards the cliff edge , and with that cliff edge comes the negating of the ECJ’s ability to determine and support Scotland’s constitutional sovereignty in law .

      We then would have any legal challenge to our Scottish Governments insistence that we are remaining within the EU and will not be dragged out , determined and decided by the UK ( english supreme court ) we all know what would happen there , it went so well the last time

      I always have reservations about Nicola showing her hand too soon and allowing these establishment arseholes to circumvent her moves , but an open and legal ECJ judicial support of our constitutional sovereignty would send the britnats further into turmoil and would establish Scotlands determination to remain an EU member

    248. Liz g says:

      Cactus @ 1.48
      Aye….But how dose one feel about steak?

    249. cearc says:

      LizG,

      Not too fond of it through the heart, methinks.

    250. wull2 says:

      While we all sleep, we know at least one person is watching over Scotland.

    251. Hamish100 says:

      ot

      Did McIntosh, Presiding Officer of the Scots Parliament ever apologise for ignoring the Lord Advocates advice and ruling which was supported by the Parliament itself?

      Just wondered why he supported the uk governments position. Surely he should resign or pay for the court costs with the tories!!

    252. frogesque says:

      Anyone else getting pissed of at Facebook allowing the BBC to spam us with picture postcards of “wonderful” Scotland?

      Lots of pretty pics, aerial views an a’that but no context on why we have a Playboy’s paradise. Just very professional dumbing down so they can say look how good we are at spending your money.

      Oh Scotchland, we weely, weely care about you if only the peasants would fuck off!

    253. Golfnut says:

      @ Hamish 100.

      I think it is pretty obvious that HMG, the senior law officer in Scotland appt by HMG and the the Supreme Court already new, even before the Continuity Bill was passed, that it was within the legal competence of the Scottish Parliament to legislate for such a Bill.

      Delaying its passage to the Queen was deliberate, premeditated and undemocratic.

      The Supreme Court trashed its reputation internationally to accommodate HMG, the ECJ would have looked on in disgust at both HMG and the SC’s action. However, internationally this will stand us in good stead when we dissolve the Union.

    254. Lenny Hartley says:

      Hamish 100. As Mcintosh was acting on legal advice he does not have to apologise or resign .
      The question was asked when the sc judgement came through, that was the jist of the answer.

    255. David P says:

      Could someone archive the article in today’s Herald?

      A provocative title… Something like ‘politically, England is not so different from Scotland’.

      There may be several Wingers looking to reply to this!

    256. Dr Jim says:

      Just having a look at Twitter and someone has figures showing Labour in England slipping behind the Lib Dems if Corbyn refuses to support remain

      I laughed and laughed

    257. Robert Peffers says:

      @twathater says: 27 December, 2018 at 2:53 am:

      ” … But time factors I suspect will save us all from this ethical dilemma. For now, we have 92 days to save our European Citizenship and stay under the protective umbrella of the ECJ.”

      That statement is untrue, twathater.

      No, “Easily identifiable people”, as defined in the Human Rights of the ECJ and the United Nations and signed up to by their member states, including the United Kingdom, requires the easily identifiable peoples to be attached to the Eu. ” or any other parent state for that matter.

      The human right of being able to claim the human right of self determination is irrespective of whatever or whichever the identifiable group of people were subjugated by.

      That means those identifiable people need not be members of a state that is either a member state of the EU or UN.

      It is an inalienable right of all humanity – not of either only either members of the EU or UN.

      Furthermore there are no other time restriction upon claiming the right of self determination for an identifiable group of people. There is quite obviously a very identifiable group of people that are the Scottish people. We are one of Europe’s earliest recognised kingdoms, countries, nations, and cultures and no one has deigned that the Scots are not a very recognisable group of people.

      Not even Westminster can legally deny that as fact. In spite of the Westminster bogus claims that, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.

      In fact not only does the Treaty of Union do no such thing but the simple fact that there is a Treaty of Union stands as evidence that the Kingdom of Scotland was/is an identifiable group of people for the simple reason that in order to enter into a treaty with the Kingdom of England means that both kingdoms have to be legally equally independently sovereign in order to even just enter into negotiations to unite together.

      No one can deny there are only two kingdoms signatures on that Treaty of Union. It is a bipartite union of kingdoms – not a quadratic union of individual countries as Westminster has been running the UK since 1 May 1707.

      The Treaty of Union is, and always has been, a sham. Only the fact that the sovereign people of Scotland have not objected to being marginalized as a kingdom has allowed it to continue and thus only a majority of the people of Scotland demanding it is over can end the, so called, United Kingdom that runs as the de facto Country of England devolving English powers to three countries and ignores that the Treaty of Union has only two signatories and they are equally sovereign Kingdoms in their own right.

      (And that is what constitutes the United Kingdom Note the word, “constitutes” – for the Treaty of Union is indeed a written constitution of, “The United Kingdom”, and it is a written constitution that has never been constituted).

    258. Dr Jim says:

      @David P

      Scotland has a SNP government pointing ever so slightly to the fact Scotland is completely different to England, how much more different can you get

      these comicpapers really do talk mince

    259. Cubby says:

      Cactus@1.48am

      Nice one again.

      Lost Boy Cactus keeping the streets clear of Britnats during the hours of darkness. Bite hard and long.

    260. jfngw says:

      It always interesting reading how we benefit from being in a union, and why would we want to leave one to join another.

      Ireland in union, the EU will ensure that treaties that have been signed with you will be respected, if not then we will need to consider any trading arrangement with the offending country.

      Scotland in union, the UK treaty we signed with you was basically a con, we will ignore it whenever it is not in our interest, we will also ignore any vote that is not the same in England. We will then have the unelected Lords change the devolution agreement against the wishes of the people who voted for it in a referendum. We will use your resources but make sure they are not allocated as Scottish as this will give you ideas above your station. Also all the HQ’s for your resources will be based in another country, making sure the financial benefits are correctly allocated.

      What you will get in return is an English monarch lecturing you on sharing, whilst sitting in opulence beside one of Liberace’s reject pianos (to flamboyant for him I believe).

    261. Hamish100 says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      27 December, 2018 at 10:24 am
      Hamish 100. As Mcintosh was acting on legal advice he does not have to apologise or resign .
      The question was asked when the sc judgement came through, that was the jist of the answer.

      Surely the issue was he acted against the Parliament the leading Law officer in Scotland and he alone came to a decision that ultimately was proven wrong.

    262. David P says:

      Dr. Jim @10.58am

      Ne assured, I completely agree with you! Scotland and England are diverging politically, and have been since at least the 1970s. It’s so clear – even to die-hard unionists – that I can’t imagine how the case against could begin to be made.

      Unless the argument is that Scots want to be more Scottish, and people from England want to be more English. How those national identities are expressed is, of course, the big question…

      With some suggestion of an answer provided by the results of the Brexit vote in those two countries.

    263. Dr Jim says:

      The *British* ruled around 73 countries who have either kicked them out or they managed to leave some other way so it’s always been a puzzle to me why anybody even questions why Scotland shouldn’t be desirous of buggering off due to the bloody awful management and robbery every single country like us has experienced

      And every single one of these places who left *Britains* *United Kingdom of England we rule the world complex nutjobs* isn’t and hasn’t been on the phone asking to come back, so for me that’s the simple answer to anybody’s question

      If it’s that great why doesn’t anybody want to join the UK

    264. David P says:

      Bloody hell! Posting from a mobile phone!

      Be assured, Dr. Jim!

    265. Thepnr says:

      @David P

      I’ve archived that Herald article and I see what you mean, she is trying desperately hard to make out that voters in Scotland are pretty much just the same as in England.

      Rebecca McQuillan: Politically, England isn’t so very different from Scotland

      http://archive.fo/QNrrg

    266. David P says:

      Many thanks to thepnr. Looking forward to reading this article, but expecting the arguments to be threadbare…

    267. galamcennalath says:

      Headlines … no deal Brexit will make the UK less safe.

      What will it take to get everyone to realise a no deal Brexit will make EVERYTHING worse for ordinary folks. It’s as if some of the fantasy propaganda of the Leave campaign persists and some people are still looking for a silver lining. There is none!

      Well, no benefits that we ordinary folks would notice. There are those who would get stinking rich(er). And all their ill gotten gains will be deposited in safe off shore locations.

    268. Wull 2

      I like your idea of Cactus being the Night Watchman.

      He is certainly limbering up for Hogmanay and 2019 – the Year of Freedom.

    269. Dr Jim says:

      @David P

      I knew what you meant, I do it all the tine Ooops!

    270. David P says:

      Off-topic but still vaguely relevant…

      I’m posting from Cork in the Irish republic, courtesy of EU free roaming… Yet another positive outcome of our EU citizenship.

    271. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – I wonder if Rebecca McQuillam is one of the paid shills hired by the Integrity Initiative to spread propaganda for the Foreign Office, or FO?

    272. Proud Cybernat says:

      Another interesting blether with a 2014 NO voter yesterday. I made the throw-away comment that in 2016 EU-Ref England didn’t fall for the Cameron-Osborne Project Fear programme but in 2014 many in Scotland did fall for it, particularly the elderly and vulnerable. The person proceeded to tell me that they were fully informed when they cast their 2014 NO vote; they had watched the BBC news all through the campaign, read all about the issues in the Daily Mail and its Sunday cousin.

      This person genuinely believed that they were fully informed when they cast their vote and that I was actually insulting them to suggest otherwise. I merely pointed out that their main information providers were staunch Union supporters to which this person agreed. To which I then asked – “So how can you get a balanced view, the wider picture if you are only listening to outlets that are giving you just one side of the debate? You can’t be FULLY informed if you are effectively being given only one side of the argument from your preferred news provider.”

      And then you could see the penny drop with them when they retorted, “But who else was there to listen to, to give the other side of the argument in 2014?”

      “I rest my case,” says I and wandered off to talk to some others.

      Point is – a lot of people trust their news providers and seem to do so even when that provider misleads them (’cause many don’t realise that they are actually being misled). Very few of the people I was talking with are on social media where you can access news that the broadcasters & press in Scotland simply won’t broadcast or print. Many NO voters genuinely think they made an informed vote in 2014 but don’t realise their ‘informed vote’ was actually a manipulated vote founded upon a pack of lies from the NO Campaign.

      No pensions.
      No oil.
      No organ transplants / blood transfusions.
      No EU.
      No pound.

      That and much else was all just a PACK OF LIES. But all of the above were key decision points for these people and, crucially, they believed what the BBC/Press told them, not realising that the BBC/MSM, in fact, were the main obstacle to them actually making a fully informed decision. They just didn’t see that they were being manipulated by the state to vote in a particular way.

      I even asked this person why they accepted what the BBC told them and their reply was something along the lines that the BBC was supposed to be fair and impartial and thus can be trusted. When I presented them with examples of the BBC distorting facts and withholding facts, their face was a picture, a real-eye-popping moment. This person just couldn’t believe that the BBC would behave in such a way to essentially manipulate them. But they couldn’t deny the evidence I presented to them and so that person is away with a completely different view of the media in this country and come IndyRef2, without doubt, will be looking for more than just the BBC’s view before coming to a decision.

    273. galamcennalath says:

      There’s a fantasy notion surrounding no-deal Brexit. Somehow the nutjobs believe all financial obligations to the EU can be reneged upon. Much of the divorce settlement is for outstanding commitments, and not least ongoing pensions. Even with a no-deal exit, the UK will still owe the EU billions. The lump sum was not to ‘buy anything’ as is often impled, it’s owed money.

      So if the UK leaves and refuses to pay up, how will that effect future relations with not only the EU but all future partners?

      Not only will the UK be a ‘soft touch’ desperately looking for trade deals, it will have a record of perfidious negotiations and reneging on commitments. The only way anyone will do a deal is where they have the upper hand and basically rip off the UK.

    274. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Proud Cybernat –

      Good on ye for having the patience to do that. I’m ashamed to say that I gave up trying to explain any of this to anyone a loooong time ago.

      🙁

    275. sandy says:

      Proud Cybernat @ 12.24 pm.

      And you wonder why so many people are taken in by scams.

      And the biggest scam is Westminster.

    276. Bobp says:

      David p 12.15pm. And after march the 29th. Our providers will be quick to hammer us once again with exorbitant roaming charges, aided and abetted by a sleekit rich mans tory government (thats if we can afford to go abroad on holiday).

    277. Lenny Hartley says:

      Hamish 100 re Mcintosh he was not acting alone he was acting with the legal advice he received.
      Think it was Alison Mcharg that said this, anyways it was somebody in the know as the question was asked.l

    278. ronnie anderson says:

      Thepnr nothing new there [ scotland we luve U ] there are devisions between Nth Sth & Sth Nth & those who have & those who have not ( she can have our shite voting system ) , like the Poll Tax it would be withdrawn in a year ( more unelected shysters screwing the public purse ). McQuillan no doubt on the payroll of the Bbc bonus scheme for journalists .

    279. ronnie anderson says:

      Cappella correction to my post yesterday re phoning OSCR , that will be on the 3rd Jan { me brain deed } .

    280. CameronB Brodie says:

      David P
      re. how national identies are expressed.

      Nationalism, racism, and identity: what connects Englishness to a preference for hard Brexit?

      ….“When you strip away the rhetoric”, wrote Fintan O’Toole in the Guardian in June 2016, “Brexit is an English Nationalist movement”. Englishness has also been called “the invisible driver” behind Brexit. These assertions have been borne out by a number of post-referendum studies that have demonstrated higher support for Brexit among those identifying as English rather than British (see here for example). Importantly, in light of the ‘classic’ political divides, these findings about Englishness hold true after accounting for relevant economic factors; that is, identity matters over and above any economic concerns the individual might hold.

      And it is an English phenomenon: the distinction doesn’t hold in Scotland or Northern Ireland or Wales. But just what is it about Englishness that connects one’s feeling of belonging to the nation to preferences for Brexit? Do the English identifiers place greater emphasis on nationalism, on protecting national boundaries? And is Englishness an ‘ethnic’ identity where Britishness is more ‘civic’?

      National identity represents a social identity. According to social identity theory a social identity represents a self-concept based on perceived membership of a social group and is associated with in-group favouritism and discrimination against members of outgroups. Conceptually similar is the idea that national identity/membership of a nation represents membership of an imagined community – imagined as both inherently limited and sovereign. A nation always implies a boundary between those who are conceived to belong to it and those who are excluded from membership. Key ideas in both set of theories are that boundaries between members and non-members exist, and that feelings differ towards those on different sides of the boundary….

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/englishness-racism-brexit/

    281. Dr Jim says:

      That Sturgeon’s only in it for herself (Howzat then?) She just wants Independence so she can rule (But if it was going to be a disaster nobody would ever vote for her again so what is she winning?) Aye but Scotland’ll be out of the UK and broke (So you think the SNP plan is to make Scotland poor why would they want that if they’re the ones who want the power) They hate the English (Nicola Sturgeons granny is English and I’m in the SNP and my Mum was English and so’s half my family) They don’t want the Queen (Nobody in the SNP is bothered about the Queen although we probably won’t pay for her upkeep) We’ve got nae oil (actually we’ve got more oil now than when they first discovered the stuff)

      By this point we usually get to the religious part in which we explain that the SNP is the most multicultural party in the British Isles
      Then comes the *Currency question* they love that one because they don’t understand what currency means and if they’re old enough choose to forget that whenever we used to travel abroad we used endless amounts of other peoples currency and then we went over to decimalisation which meant we were really the same as everybody else but still called it a different name because it was all multiples of ten and not twelve anymore so any currency or our own brand new one makes no difference to (as Harold Wilson said) the pound in your pocket, or the Euro or the Dollar or anything you want, the only thing that changes for the punter is the wee £ or $ in front of the number

      If by this time they’re still not convinced and you can see their face getting red and puffy, beat a hasty retreat because they want to punch you in the face because they already know they’re wrong and they’re unconvincible

      Until they find out post hard Brexit that most toilet paper isn’t made in the UK and the stuff that absorbs nappy pee comes from abroad so they might have to go back to newspapers and towelling for the weans (But only for a year or two) Ha Ha

    282. Capella says:

      @ ronnie anderson – looking forward to hearing how you get on. Let’s start the New Year in the manner in which we want to get accustomed.

      Glancing at the Scottish newspaper headlines on the BBC website (when they eventually get published – no hurry). I like to see which regional version of the P&J they publish. Usually, it’s one which criticises the SG.

      Today is different.
      LOSSIE RESPONDS TO RISING THREAT FROM RUSSIANS

      Typhoon jets scrambled six times to retaliate against Moscow’s heightened military activity.

      It’s entertaining to play “spot the II plant” nowadays in the media. But this is a bit over-the-top of the bunker, even for the P&J.
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46691706

    283. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, so preference for a hard Brexit is associated with the “English only” national identity and open racist hostility. Is this the lead Scotland wants to follow?

      Nationalism and the strategie expression of identity

      The rhetorical value of Nationhood

      A social psychoiogist interested in nationalism can approach this phenomenon in at least two different marmers. One strategy involves considering nationalism as primarily a set of representations and attitudes. Questions that she might seek an answer to are: what makes people consider that their group is a nation and what are the effects of this perception ? What makes people define themselves in national terms? One can also consider nationalism as a form of discourse, regardless of its psychological representation. We shall adopt this perspective here. This approach emphasizes the rhetorical value of nationalism (Billig, 1987; Potter & Wetherell, 1987). This discursive perspective is very suitable in the present case: according to most theorists of nationalism, describing one’s group as a nation is an argument justifying the existence of a state for the Nation. This link constitutes the very essence of nationalismI:

      ‘Nationalism is primarily a political principle, which holds that the political and the national unit should be congruent’ (Gellner, 1983, p. 10)

      ‘Nationalism involves the construction of the sense of national identity for those who are said to inhabit their own nation-state ( … ) It involves the general principle: it is right that ‘we’ possess ‘our’ own state, because peoples (nations) should have their states (nations)’ (Billig, 1995, p. 25)

      ‘The term ‘nationalism’ is used to refer to political movements seeking or exercising state power and justifying such action with nationalist arguments.

      A nationalist argument is a political doctrine built upon three basic assertions.'(Breuilly, 1983, p.2)

      According to Breuilly, the first of these assertions is:
      ‘There exists a nation with an explicit and peculiar character.’ (p. 2)

      http://www.dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00010843.pdf

    284. galamcennalath says:

      I sense there is a new style of propaganda at play …. ‘state the obvious but claim it’s a revelation’.

      It’s typically presented as words of wisdom from some arsehole no one has heard of.

      Example from Expess … “SECURING a Brexit deal may be the most likely outcome before March 2019 but will not provide UK business with certainty ‘for a long time’, warned a former US Ambassador to the EU.”

      No shit Sherlock! Anyone who doesn’t know that the ‘deal’ before WM is just the Withdrawal Agreement, hasn’t been keeping up! May’s ‘deal’ is for a blindfold Brexit with transition period but absolutely no idea what the future trading arrangements will be. Of course this will not allow businesses to make long term plans. It might remove the immediate panic, but long term everything is still up in the air.

      This is not news!

      It does not need to be revealed by some retired US public servant!

      So what’s the point? Padding – easy content for a slow day? Or, drip feeding an underlying message to the more gullible and less informed? This is the Express, after all.

    285. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for being a space hog but I think this identity stuff is important.

      Do Scots really want their future to be shaped by English racism? England’s social problems are Scotland’s concern but not Scotland’s responsibility.

      #DissolveTheUnion

      Editorial: Critical Perspectives on Ideology, Identity, and Interaction

      3. Identity in action and interaction

      Identity formation, negotiation, and maintenance, subsumed within the term of „identity construction? under the influence of „social constructivism? in social sciences, has become one of the major concerns of (critical) discourse analysts. As argued by Bamberg et al. 2011: 189) in their discourse-oriented contribution to Handbook of Identity Theory and Research,

      Using the lens of discourse and the lens of construction and bringing them to focus onto identity, what comes to the fore are discursive practices as the sites for identity formation processes – where the social and the personal/individual are fused and become empirical, as situated, in vivo, interactive processes.

      Such a perspective moves away from the understanding of identity as something that is static, given and unchanging towards a dynamic view of the concept as emerging in social action and interaction, and entails a shift away from viewing a person as self-contained and having identity and generating his/her individuality and character as a personal identity project towards focusing instead on the processes in which identity is done or made – as constructed in discursive activities. (Bamberg et al. 2011: 178)

      Identity thus can be seen as both reflected and constituted in discourse – actively, ongoingly, and dynamically – or, to use Fairclough?s terms (2003: 8–9) „construed? with potential for „construction?1 (see also Benwell and Stokoe 2006).

      http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/journals/cadaad/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Volume-5_Kopytowska.pdf

    286. Breeks says:


      sandy says:
      27 December, 2018 at 12:44 pm
      Proud Cybernat @ 12.24 pm.

      And you wonder why so many people are taken in by scams.

      And the biggest scam is Westminster.

      BBC propaganda is like opium. Designed to give you a fleeting taste of euphoria that is habit forming and raises your anxiety through threats the supply might be cut. By the time you realise all is not what it seems, it’s too late and you can’t do without it.

      Nevermind politics or news, why do you think your intellect is assaulted by so many shitty soap operas with cliff hanging endings? Keep the viewing figures up? Really? Or what? It’s all paid for by the state. The Establishment want you sitting in the comfort of your own home, relaxed, disarmed, and predisposed to suggestion, believing whatever narrative the Establishment wants you to believe. The Muslims are dangerous, the West is righteous, the Russians are our enemies, Europe is evil but about to collapse, foreigners shouldn’t be trusted, the poor and the frail are parasites… Oh yes, and don’t forget the moral imperative of democracy. You voted for this. It’s your fault.

      It is not by accident that the Scottish public is denied an alternative perspective in its daily digest of news. How many drug pushers do you know who believe in fair trade and open competition?

      Half of our country still wants to be lied to. It isn’t a mystery. That altered state of awareness is exactly what indoctrination is meant to achieve. It is designed to get in to your head like a comforting sedative that disarms your defences and becomes so precious to you, you will forgive all fallacies, defend the absurd, and suffer from paranoia and irritation whenever somebody invites you to question the orthodox view.

      All we have to do is persuade people eh? Easy peasy.

      Well yeah, no shit Sherlock. But the wee problem there is the £3.8billion Propaganda Factory working 24-7 to sabotage our endeavours and they’ve also a head start of several decades of ingrained indoctrination.

      But here’s the thing… it’s democracy which needs to capture hearts and minds, and our current democracy has a serious and invasive case of indoctrination and manipulation running unchecked through the country’s nervous system. That is it’s weakness.

      Constitutional legitimacy, sovereignty, is an absolute and binary condition which is neither influenced by opinion nor a servant of ephemeral opinion. They don’t want us to know that, but it doesn’t matter. For us long as but a hundred of us remain alive, we can still seek international recognition of Scotland’s Sovereign legitimacy.

    287. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers @ 10:54,

      Your arguments always ratger remind me of the man who got hit by a car while crossing an old-style zebra crossing. He was fully in the right to step out into the road, but he got run over anyway.

      Since we don’t have the legal protection of a native properly- functioning Supreme Court, merely Tony Blair’s simulacrum, the only effective form of resistence is public opinion. (In effect stuffing the crossing with a mass of people to halt the traffic.)

      The alternative is for the SG, or alternatively (as happened recently) a group of well-motivated individuals, to stall Art.50 on constitutional grounds based on the Treaty of Union, and take it all the way to the ECJ while we still can. (In effect, find a proper policeman to enforce the crossing.)

      Halt Brexit in its tracks, however temporarily, and watch the fur fly. The ensuing reaction in England would surely wake up the most self-delusional PSB.

      Which takes us right back to the court of public opinion. One way or another, we need a confrontational crisis very soon. This sleepwalking into a new era of enhanced serfdom to an unfettered England has got to stop, and stop while it still matters.

    288. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 14:37,

      Sorry, not “ratger” but “rather”. Too many rats in this business already! =grin=

    289. iainmore says:

      BAH HUMBUG!!!

    290. Proud Cybernat says:

      “All we have to do is persuade people eh? Easy peasy.

      Well yeah, no shit Sherlock. But the wee problem there is the £3.8billion Propaganda Factory working 24-7 to sabotage our endeavours and they’ve also a head start of several decades of ingrained indoctrination.”

      Well, how many times have we said on this site that all we YESsers need do is for each of us to convince just one NO voter to switch to YES and we’re home and dry. Well, I reckon I’ve managed to switch a good few more than that.

      THAT is how we do it. Person by person, vote by vote. That £3.8 billion propaganda factory you mention almost failed in 2014. If we continue that approach and stop examining our fucking sovereign navels, get up off our arses and get out there and TALK to people i.e. 2014 NO voters there is nothing that can stop us.

      If you want Indy, THAT is what it will take. How much d’ya want it?

    291. CameronB Brodie says:

      I thought this might interest some. Sorry, the abstract won’t paste.

      Political ideologies and identity in British newspaper discourse.
      http://eprints.nottingham.ac.uk/10601/1/Political_Ideology_and_Identity_in_British_Newspaper_Discourse.pdf

      Opinions and Ideologies in Editorials

      Social beliefs
      As has been suggested several times above, beliefs may be shared by more than one person. Indeed, the very notion of knowledge implies, as we defined it, that other people share the same true belief: Beliefs (about other things than personal experiences) held by one person may well (later) turn out to be true, but are usually not (yet) accepted as such, and hence treated as ‘mere beliefs’. Henceforth, we shall use the notion of knowledge only in this sense of socially shared true beliefs, and mark true personal beliefs (e.g., those of personal experiences) specifically as such, viz., as ‘personal knowledge’. This is not merely a philosophical decision, but also a cognitive one: Knowledge will be henceforth dealt with only as a special type of cognition, viz., as social cognition . Its mental representation is therefore also a form of social representation (Farr & Moscovici, 1984; Breakwell & Canter, 1993; Fraser & Gaskell, 1990).

      Technically, social knowledge is usually located in ‘semantic’ Long Term Memory, which we shall simply call Social Memory , because such social representations are shared by social groups and communities and acquired, used and validated essentially in social contexts. Personal knowledge, e.g., in the form of personal experiences, on the other hand, will be thought to be represented in Episodic Memory (or Personal Memory)(Tulving, 1983). Such personal experiences may of course be shared with others, typically so in storytelling, but this need not result in the kind of ‘common, shared beliefs’ we here call knowledge, and which require person-independent and event-independent knowledge of groups of people….

      http://www.discursos.org/unpublished%20articles/Opinions%20and%20ideologies%20in%20editorials.htm

      Language and Identity

      2 IDENTITY: SAME DIFFERENCE?
      The term identity literally refers to sameness. One might therefore expect that identity would be most salient when people are most similar. Yet this seemingly straightforward formulation is more complex in practice. It is not easy for an outside observer to determine when a group of people should be classified as ‘‘alike,’’ nor is it obvious on what grounds such a classification should be made, given the infinitude of ways in which individuals vary from one another. Hence, externally imposed identity categories generally have at least as much to do with the observer’s own identity position and power stakes as with any sort of objectively describable social reality….

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227992133_Language_and_Identity

    292. geeo says:

      Came across this today, subliminal messaging in kids tv….who knew !!

      https://www.facebook.com/1599073163735344/posts/1814476002195058/

    293. galamcennalath says:

      Presenter to George Osborne – “Is Brexit actually going to happen?””

      George Osborne – “Oh f*** knows, I don’t know.”

      Which proves Tories aren’t allowed to tell the truth while they are serving MPs. Once ‘free’ they can be brutally honest!

    294. galamcennalath says:

      geeo says:

      Came across this today, subliminal messaging in kids tv….who knew !!

      Oh yes, I think there’s a message there! All those folks beyond the wall are a threat.

      Thing is, prior to Europeans ‘discovering’ the rest of the world, the reality was that much of the rest of the world was doing just fine. China for one was hugely damaged by being targetted by officially sanctioned UK drug dealers. India had resources stripped and indigenous industrial development suppressed – the colonial system.

      This tale of African wealth is interesting ….

      https://www.history.com/news/who-was-the-richest-man-in-history-mansa-musa

    295. twathater says:

      @geeo 27th Dec 3.50pm replace ( ants ) with jocks and let’s get out of here

    296. David P says:

      Wings is (even more) glorious when the trolls are on holiday!

      And it tells us a lot that they are all absent at the same time. Office shut-down?… Several accounts run by a single out-rider?…

      Who knows, but pretty strong evidence that they are not just ‘concerned individuals’ acting on their own.

      And perhaps this is strong enough evidence to remove them permanently from our discussions? I defer to the Reverend!

    297. twathater says:

      Watched bbc jockland news at midday, why must these presenters look soooo happy when uttering Scotland’s shite news .
      Tinfoil hat on , it’s my opinion they are trying to dismantle and destroy Scotland from the inside out , today another company goes to the wall , another 150 people thrown on the dole , alongside the others from Livingston and the others from Youngs is it just a coincidence

      The ones sacked today have a contract to remove all clinical waste from hospitals, doctors surgeries , dental surgeries , how can this NOT be a thriving business , they apparently were slated recently for stockpiling the waste and blamed it on not enough incinerators to destroy the waste

      Surely there must be enough competent people within these companies to determine if there is a business case to resurrect these businesses , what happened to the old management buyout theory , what happened to entrepreneurial activity , surely rather than being on the dole with no prospects a cadre of people could approach the SG with a business plan to apply for assistance to continue with these contracts as this clinical waste has to be disposed of somehow
      The Upper Clyde Shipbuilders lead by Jimmy Read showed the way ,with enough will it can be done , rather than all the equipment being sold for peanuts and the buildings allowed to fall into disrepair these businesses could be the start of a revitalised and energetic Scotland , Scots must fight back against the dismantling of our industries and with the help of the SNP SG and an investment bank it could encourage growth

    298. wull2 says:

      When you have a Castle to run, and the servants have gone home, you have to feed yourself, Wings over Scotland comes last.

    299. Hamish100 says:

      Twat

      Re clinical waste issues. The NHS In England were ordered by the English Health minister to cancel the contract due to some issues allegedly outwith the control of the contractor over incinerator space.

      There is not an issue in Scotland.

    300. wull2 says:

      Unfortunately for WM news has to reach one of our many eyes to get put on here and inform the masses.

    301. ronnie anderson says:

      David P I did send a letter to Santa ( via Wings page ) t other week to hiv ah Troll free christmas , my wishes were granted & I hope for the same next week & going forward into 2019/20 , as the Rev himsel has said on many occasions DONT ENGAGE . I hope that massage will be received loud n clear by all Wingers . Trolls bring nothing to the wellbeing of this WoS site & to the Independence cause .

    302. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ronnie.

      Here’s 5 minutes for you.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4kdZTnizG4

      Maybe we should refer to them all as “Trevor”?

    303. David P says:

      Ronnie, you’re absolutely right re trolls. That’s why I never respond to them. But in their absence, it’s a joy to converse with other, genuine posters. Lots of great stuff on this thread!

    304. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: Healthcare Environmental Services.

      I work in the Medical School at Ninewells Hospital and ‘have an interest’ in the removal of clinical waste.

      Around 3 weeks ago, we found out that the contract with HES had been terminated and the clinical waste was being removed from Ninewells by three separate companies.

      This doesn’t tally with the story that the BBC is carrying.

      http://archive.is/EB3j2

    305. ronnie anderson says:

      Heart of Galloway Shared that link on Yes pages . I would hope Nicola is keeping her options open ended & that a Indy Scotland take the EEA / AFTA route .

    306. ronnie anderson says:

      Briandoonthetoon And there endeth the lesson on Troll Toll free bridges LoL .

    307. Proud Cybernat @3.29

      Bang on old chap if each of us Scottish patriots target ONE undecided or soft no then we are home and dry.

      The regime has to work at constant lies and disinformation aimed mainly at the elderly and the gammon types its a big job thats why the military and the intelligence community are engaged in the work of sabotaging Scotland.

      If each one of us targets one individual and presents the truth emphasising the individuals duty to their loved ones then we will overcome.

    308. Proud Cybernat says:

      Question – if FM calls indyref2 and BritNat Councils refuse to facilitate it, what can ScotGov do about those councils? Obviously ScotGov would need to ensure ‘portable polling stations’ were in operation in those councils that refused to facilitate the vote. Anyone know?

    309. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Proud Cybernat (3.29) –

      Hear hear.

      I hope my 12.38 comment didn’t detract from the importance of what you’re saying. It was more of a confessional than anything else.

      Thinking back over the last few years I honestly don’t know if I ever succeeded in converting a No to a Yes via face to face discussion. There’s a couple, perhaps, who were switherers but it’s so hard to tell for sure if they really did end up voting Yes or just said they had to shut me up. (And whether they will do so as and when indy2 happens…)

      It’s one thing to come on here and state one’s case. I much prefer that because, in person, I suspect I come across as too easily exasperated when the usual Yoon cliches are rolled out and find it very difficult to disguise my disgust for folk who still believe the ‘oil is almost finished’ shite and/or the notion that Labour has any credibility left. I just can’t bring myself to treat such people seriously. I know, I know, I know I should, but I can’t!

      Another factor which makes me wary of getting into discussion about it all is instant recall of the various stats. I just don’t possess that ability to pluck out the real killer facts & figures e.g. as they were laid out in the WBB. That’s why I’m so looking forward to an updated version and the chance to get them into people’s hands – then they don’t have to listen to me at all, just read it for themselves.

      😉

    310. Dr Jim says:

      Apparently Professor Tom Devine Scotlands leading historian is *tainted* because he supports Independence

      Says the Guardian

    311. ronnie anderson says:

      Ian Brotherhood U served your apprenticeship in engaging with people at the many venues of the Wings stall in the early years as did many other Wingers , I was getting good feedback for the knowledge Wingers were imparting but wee tip Ian keep a copy of the Wee Blue Book in your pocket & direct people to the site to download it for themselves Hoots Man .

    312. Iain says:

      I’m just worried that all leave will be cancelled in the 77th and our usual troll service will resume.
      Everyone have a great Christmas and New year, here’s hoping that the next one will bring freedom from the evil empire.

    313. Cactus says:

      Be it a fine evening to ye 2018 festive revellers, jist flossing ma fangs.

      Aye, any metal thru the middle won’t get me…

      Aye wear a methril semmit.

      Remember this… get used to it… whom ARE you?:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to1xT93IlUI

      4 sleeps to go… for some, ah ha ha.

    314. ronnie anderson says:

      We bitty early fur U Cactus Ur the nightshift is aw that boozin befuggled yer brain lol

    315. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: Converting NO’s and switherers.

      I find these are useful. The first shows the distribution of powers now, with the UK after brexit, and with Scotland as an independent nation within the EU. The middle one reflects that the UK is grabbing back powers, currently devolved, like fishing, farming, environmental protection and so on.

      https://i.imgur.com/5Rmgkdw.jpg

      This one is useful to show how rich in resources Scotland is.

      https://i.imgur.com/MG7kPqj.jpg

      And this one reinforces the message of Scotland being able to sustain itself.

      https://i.imgur.com/detLn2P.jpg

    316. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 27 December, 2018 at 2:37 pm:

      ” … Since we don’t have the legal protection of a native properly- functioning Supreme Court, merely Tony Blair’s simulacrum, the only effective form of resistence is public opinion.”

      But we do have a properly functioning Supreme Court in Edinburgh. The truth being that you, many other independence supporters and the entirety of British Nationalist all believe we don’t – because Westminster says so.

      Thing is that if the legally sovereign people of Scotland insist upon the terms of the Treaty of Union being upheld then that Edinburgh High Court is legally sovereign and Westminster, (English law), does not apply. It says so in the Treaty of Union. Both Scots and English Law are independent and incompatible with each other and there is no such thing as a United Kingdom Rule of Law.

      ” … The alternative is for the SG, or alternatively (as happened recently) a group of well-motivated individuals, to stall Art.50 on constitutional grounds based on the Treaty of Union, and take it all the way to the ECJ while we still can.”

      And there again you are getting it wrong. There is no correlation between being an EU member state and the use of the ECJ. I’ll put that in another way – no one or no state or group of people must be EU citizens to appeal to the ECJ. Which is why it is commonly called, “The World Court. In effect it makes no difference if the Kingdom of Scotland is still in or out of either the United Kingdom or the European Union to refer their right of Self determination to the ECJ, (World Court).

      Don’t take my word for it go and check it out. Furthermore, the very same Human Right of Self determination for recognisable groups is part of the United Nations Human Rights Legislation and you do not need to be a member state of the United Nations to refer a claim of Self Determination to the United Nations.

      ” … Which takes us right back to the court of public opinion.”

      Which is just another way to say that ultimately sovereignty will always rest with the people and if the people refuse to accept a sovereign power that rules over them then that overruling body, be it royalty, dictatorship, Military Junta or just something like Westminster that assumes it has sovereignty and has enforced it will fall.

      As in every fallen historic empire in history including the Holy Roman See, The French Aristocracy, The Russian Aristocracy after their respective revolutions. Also the English/British North American colonies after the American War of Independence and more recently the fall of the USSR.

      In this I’ve been telling that truth for many years and it is such as yourself that cannot shake off the Westminster brainwashing that is preventing the fall of the United Kingdom Government that has never in its history actually been run as an actual United Kingdom.

      When a majority of the people of Scotland claim their inalienable human right of self determination we not only have the Treaty of Union to back up our claims but the ECJ and United Nations Human Rights legislation and the natural rights of all people to assert their sovereignty.

      Sovereignty of a government of any kind cannot be enforced if the common people refuse to accept it and that is writ large in human history since the dawn of time.

    317. Cactus says:

      Hehe, one is always here and sometimes aye do go to there too ronnie 🙂 ah was and am continuing to enjoy some Lovely hoose red.

      Cheers to y’all Wingers, Merry December.

      Our iDays are a comin’…

    318. ronnie anderson says:

      Cactus an aw the bestest tae U my Freen Big Hugs

    319. Cactus says:

      😉 hehe see ye February ’19 (if not sooner)

      Cheers!

    320. wull2 says:

      Some like the long dark nights, they can come out early, its OK as long as they don’t fall and hurt themselves.

    321. crazycat says:

      There is a difference between the ECJ (the European Court of Justice) and the ICJ (the International Court of Justice).

      The former is “the judicial institution of the European Union. This means that it deals with disputes between parties as the courts do in Ireland. The ECJ has the important function of ensuring that European law is interpreted and applied in the same way in every member state.”
      (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/european_government/eu_institutions/european_court_of_justice.html)

      When it comes to the latter, however, “[t]he 15-member ICJ, or World Court is the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, seated at The Hague in the Netherlands. It is charged with settling legal disputes submitted to it by states and giving advisory opinions on legal questions from U.N. bodies and agencies.”
      (https://www.law.columbia.edu/media_inquiries/news_events/2013/september2013/donoghue-world-court)

      In other words, the World Court is the ICJ, not the ECJ.

    322. Rock says:

      Dr Jim says:
      27 December, 2018 at 12:08 pm

      “The *British* ruled around 73 countries who have either kicked them out or they managed to leave some other way so it’s always been a puzzle to me why anybody even questions why Scotland shouldn’t be desirous of buggering off due to the bloody awful management and robbery every single country like us has experienced”

      Rock (8th December – “The Stoned Roses”):

      “For the record, I have nothing against English settlers in Scotland and find it quite natural that the vast majority of them would prefer Scotland to remain “in union with England”.

      But it is the ultimate in stupidity to give English settlers the right to vote in a referendum on Scottish independence from England.

      Everywhere else in the world, they were unceremoniously kicked out.

      But the most stupid people on earth are happy to let them have a say on whether their country should be their colony or not.

      I don’t give a damn if any poster calls me racist.”

    323. Dr Jim says:

      @Rock

      Don’t apply my name to your racism Fuckwit

    324. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      26 December, 2018 at 7:40 pm

      “A Section 30 doesn’t legalise or not a referendum.It establishes that both sides will respect the reult”

      Does that mean that England would not respect the result of a Scottish independence referendum held without a Section 30 order?

      Would the “British” army be sent in to contain the rebellious Scots?

    325. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I see Trevor’s back regurgitating old posts.

      Why bother? You’re sussed.

    326. Phronesis says:

      Journalism worth fighting for. They won’t be left twiddling their thumbs given the ‘low –quality’ of world leaders and the ‘low-quality’ individuals that have access to those who crawl through the corridors of power. All merit investigation- corrupt business and banking practices, dodgy arms deals with repressive regimes to perpetrate mass civilian killings intertwined with political decisions that diminish democracy and human rights.

      Time that Scotland took itself out of this negative equation.

      ‘We believe 2019 will be the year we jointly stand our ground and fight back against the forces of opaque money and power, plutocracy, and globalized corruption and criminality — all fueling the growth of modern autocracy…We are going after the criminal services industry — the banks, hedge funds, law firms, registration agents, golden passport peddlers, and others that enable corrupt officials and the globalization of organized crime. Companies such as Danske Bank, Mossack Fonseca, Child & Child, and the Appleby law firm have helped criminals succeed beyond their wildest dreams. We will continue to name names through in-depth reporting backed by irrefutable proof’

      https://www.occrp.org/en

      ‘Democratic investigations turn up ample evidence of incompetence and corruption, that the economic recovery peters out (if not falling into recession), that Trump’s personnel picks continue the pattern of low-quality people replaced by even lower-quality people and that an international incident (which we’ve avoided to date) proves Trump’s total incompetence. At that point, Republican lawmakers’ loyalty to (or fear of) Trump will come up against their panic over their own political fates. Equally important will be the reaction of the donor class if the stock market continues to tank, siphoning off any gains they’ve enjoyed from the tax cuts’

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/27/how-low-will-trump-go-before-republicans-flee/

      ‘Bosses at Berkeley Group, the phenomenally successful housebuilder, were accused by their own former finance director of repeatedly bribing a partner at a major estate agent, of corporate tax evasion and of unlawfully disclosing price sensitive information – allegations he made in an extraordinary lawsuit’

      https://www.financeuncovered.org/investigations/berkeley-group-bribery-allegations-court-papers

      ‘The property, a three-bedroom flat in the heart of Mayfair, has an estimated value of around £2.3 million…The registry records show that the property was bought from General Hashim Said Hashim, a former head of the Saudi Arabian Air Force, in 2006 for £900,000’

      https://theprint.in/investigation/fugitive-arms-dealer-robert-vadras-friend-sanjay-bhandari-lives-in-plush-london-flat/126697/

      ‘As a no-deal Brexit looks increasingly likely, Britain’s Conservative government risks drifting closer towards repressive regimes in the Middle East to compensate for economic vulnerability, while diminishing the country’s influence over them, say analysts and human rights advocates… With the economic instability from Brexit, Britain’s dependency on alliances with countries such as Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Israel will only increase, making Westminster more reluctant to address further human rights violations… Britain’s Conservative government has so far focused more on retaining economic ties with Saudi Arabia and its coalition partners in Yemen, rather than using its role as UN Security Council pen-holder for Yemen to resolve the conflict’

      https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2018/9/12/britain-drifts-towards-repressive-regimes-as-no-deal-brexit-looms

    327. Rock says:

      Dr Jim says:
      27 December, 2018 at 9:59 pm

      “@Rock

      Don’t apply my name to your racism Fuckwit”

      Dr Jim says:
      27 December, 2018 at 12:08 pm

      “The *British* ruled around 73 countries who have either kicked them out”

      By *British* do you mean English?

    328. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      I know some – meself included – get very fed-up with his shite but on another level it is actually hilarious.

      So fuckin predictable it’s not true.

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    329. mac says:

      Here’s wishing Scotland a happy Indy year.

    330. galamcennalath says:

      Followed a link to order-order.com. Must admit, I didn’t realise just how much London centric right wing drivel that site puts up! Wings over England it is not!

    331. Lenny Hartley says:

      See the 77th are back on shift, did the NCO’s serve your christmas dinner?

    332. Capella says:

      @ crazycat – thx for the clarification. Glad to see you posting again.

      @ CBB – I think of Nation States as a natural development after dynastic systems collapse. In that sense, all Nation States are “nationalist” but not blood and soil nationalist.

      The EU represents a collective of Nation States cooperating in defined ways. Obviously, the UK government hates the very concept.

    333. cynicalHighlander says:

      An interesting read

      How Swedes and Norwegians Broke the Power of the ‘1 Percent’

      https://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-the-power-of-the-1-percent/#.XCLRyqgJd-U.facebook

    334. Capella says:

      Brilliant! Tweet from Diane James – remember her? the woman who didn’t want to lead UKIP – now wants England to leave the UK in order to get BREXIT. From Stu’s twitter.

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1078427376491601923

    335. Hamish100 says:

      rock the Express and Guardian reader on overtime I note.
      We don’t want your racist britnat nonsense. cheers

    336. jfngw says:

      @Dr Jim

      And the Guardian is tainted because it believes in Scotland’s subjugation, as regularly exhibited by it’s Scotland editor.

      But we shouldn’t worry, it’s an paper aimed 99.99999% at an English audience. Used to read it online, gave up soon after 2014. It really became totally irrelevant to Scotland after devolution, probably always was but it became transparently so after the Scottish Parliament resumed.

    337. Cactus says:

      How progressive of you, UKIP’s Diane James… nice one.

      Next thing she’ll be immediately suggesting a proper English Parliament be formed in England (not that pretendy ad hockey one in the Hoose of Commoners.)

      Still looking on the bright side, when Scotland returns to being independent, that’ll mean they can rename Westminster to its actual real operative name, as the English Executive Parliament.

      Good luck with your independence bid people of England.

    338. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      What I think is going on at the moment is that huge promotion of the scary prospect of a no deal Brexit is going on to try to make Parliament vote for May’s “deal”” – which of course is rubbish and still takes Scotland out of the EU.

      If that fails (as expected)we are in the end game.

      If that succeeds we are still being pulled out of the EU against our will.

      If Article 50 is revoked or a Peoples’ Vote is called we will remain in the EU which gives us economic security and stability and we will be be able to go for independence without the bullshit about a hard border between England and Scotland.

      We are in a win/win/win situation.

    339. jfngw says:

      I think Ms James may be disappointed, England can end the Treaty of Union but I think they would still have Wales & NI. If they want rid of them I think there would be some reparation required to these countries.

    340. Cactus says:

      We own midnight, tonight and every night.

      Scotland that is.

      Friday yey!

    341. @Capella,

      `An Independent England,outside the EU,and not shackled to us jock scroungers,`

      would love to see this take traction doon saff,

      M.E.G.A.,

      Make England Great Again.

    342. Elmac says:

      Hi Cactus

      Your stamina is astounding for a Thursday night/Friday morning. Must meet up one evening for a dram or two when I come up from darkest Ayrshire. Until, then keep the Indy bandwagon rolling in the wee small hours.

    343. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Peffers @ 20:23,

      Sorry, RP, in this case it’s you who got it wrong.

      Thanks to crazycat @ 21:29 for identifying the likely source of the confusion.

      You have to be a citizen of the EU to be able to take a case to the ECJ, which (unlike the ICJ) could possibly stall Brexit, hence the crucial importance of acting before Brexitday.

      But we do agree that sovereignty ultimately rests with the people. It remains, however, a very active question of how best to exercise it right now.

    344. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dr Jim @ 20:08,

      Whit? Is house fantasist Sevvy up to his old tricks again?

      The only thing that’s “tainted” is the Guardian’s own coverage of independence, which, just like JC the Messiah, is a transparent hypocritical betrayer of the fine progressive notions it claims to espouse. Exposed by its own actions as being just another facet of the English Establishment.

    345. Cactus says:

      Mornin’ Elmac, aye sounds like a plan. There be talk of a February fling a comin’ up next (unless we have reason to celebrate sooner, that is.)

      Shine a light on everyone:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrj5Kxdzouc

      You know when the time is y’all.

    346. Elmac says:

      300 + years of subjugation and exploitation. Even the thickest and most easily brainwashed must be awakening to the massive theft and fraud that has been visited on our country since the advent of the so called union. If we keep on exposing the truth on social media and sites like these we will win. The corrupt press and broadcasters are fighting a losing battle. Bit by bit their lies are being exposed to the electorate and more eyes opened. The young in particular are more IT literate and consequently know what a cesspit govern us. They undoubtedly will ultimately consign this disgusting union to the rubbish bin of history but I hope and expect our generation will rise and do it for them. We owe our kids ancd grandkids a future free of the oppression our people have endured since 1707.

    347. Proud cybernate…

      re possible portable polling stations, I think we should look to some of the Catalonian solutions for our answers. They were particularly inventive.

      Dr Jim …

      they can always use Neil ‘the untainted’ Oliver for Union biased history programmes

    348. Cactus says:

      Next movie… Dark Shadows.

      Audio in Transylvanian with Scottish subtitles.

      Night, ah ha ha.

    349. Liz g says:

      Cactus @ 1.20
      And tomorrow night…. Will you be…
      Being Human!

    350. Elmac says:

      Re Liz G at 1.20

      Cactus may be eccentric but he is most definitely a decent human being. He patrols the netherworld of the night on our behalf to keep the unionist vampyres at bay.

    351. Cactus says:

      Hehe ah could give it a try Liz.

      Awe the best tae yer besties x.

    352. Liz g says:

      Elmac @ 1.41
      You may have misunderstood me!
      As my Good Friend Cactus will know
      – Being Human – is a Vampire tv show

    353. Liz g says:

      Hey Cactus….
      Your definitely more Being Human than a lost boy… Aye?

    354. Cactus says:

      Aye aye, ahm human under the cover of daylight Liz, but a Transylvanian transformation occurs each night hehe.

      One must always been invited over the threshold, it’s nocturnal etiquette.

      Being human is fun, but staying as a part of the UK might turn us all into zombies!

      Have an excellent weekend Wingers.

    355. twathater says:

      RJS 2.37pm I agree entirely Robert even if it were not the SG it would be great if the same individuals could raise a crowdfunder to take the constitutional sovereignty issue to the ECJ which would really mess with the britnats heads

      Could you imagine if the ECJ determined that engwalland had no constitutional or legal authority to FORCE Scotland out of the EU

      I know that is already the case re Scotland but it would be sooooo sweet to have the ECJ backing

    356. Breeks says:


      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      28 December, 2018 at 12:41 am
      Robert Peffers @ 20:23,

      Sorry, RP, in this case it’s you who got it wrong.

      Thanks to crazycat @ 21:29 for identifying the likely source of the confusion.

      You have to be a citizen of the EU to be able to take a case to the ECJ, which (unlike the ICJ) could possibly stall Brexit, hence the crucial importance of acting before Brexitday.

      But we do agree that sovereignty ultimately rests with the people. It remains, however, a very active question of how best to exercise it right now.

      It isn’t the Sovereignty at issue, but the prevailing recognition, or rather lack of recognition that we must overturn.

      Scotland had the door slammed in its face and was excluded from Brexit negotiations because Scotland was not recognised as a sovereign interlocutor.

      Scotland could not liaise with Europe in 2014 because Scotland had no legal personality through which to engage with inter-National negotiations.

      Without Legal Personality secured for Scotland, our Constitutional Sovereignty will be a notional idea in our heads until it has international recognition. All of us know it is an unconstitutional travesty that Scotland’s sovereignty was ever purloined and subjugated in the first place, but however inaccurate and illegitimate the circumstances that it created, the prevailing opinion is that it is UK Parliamentary Sovereignty which currently boasts international recognition.

      People argue that we are in a totally different constitutional predicament than Catalonia, and while there is some truth to that, that truth is our perspective seen from the inside looking out, not the outside looking in.

      Until Scotland establishes its constitutional legitimacy then our protests will be ignored, and our affairs administered by Westminster. Scotland will continue to have the status of a sectioned mental patient; we exist, have rights, but have no legal competence and our power of attorney is handled by a third party. What happened to Catalonia could very well happen to Scotland too while Westminster has legal personality and a voice, and Scotland remains constitutionally mute.

      Do you see why the case over Article 50 taken to the ECJ was so significant? It was lodged under Scots Law, not UK law, and the ECJ rebuffed the UK’s Supreme Court’s objections to the case being heard. That constitutes recognition of sorts, a measure of ascendency, but it’s only a step in the right direction.

      The other watershed issue over recognition, besides Scotland being recognised, is the reciprocal recognition that if Scotland is sovereign, Westminster is not. Not only can we speak for ourselves, but nobody else has the right to speak for us.

      It is a racing certainty that Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty will prevail. Westminster has acknowledged Scotland’s Claim of Right and the Sovereignty of the Scottish people, yet chooses to promote and maintain the fallacy that gives it power over us.

      They know they cannot win that claim of sovereign legitimacy, but they play out the fallacy until Scotland at last gets to grips with the Constitutional truth and the duplicity of the Union. They only have power over us while we concede them that power.

      How much unconstitutional provocation will it take for Scotland to finally ask for Constitutional arbitration? We have 91 days left.

    357. Ken500 says:

      It will be up to people to vote. They have the power in their hands. If they have the guts. Instead of cutting off their nose to spite their face. If they want a better and prosperity for Scotland. Always denied by Westminster corrupt imbeciles and stooges. It depends if people want to stand up for themselves and others.

      Corbyn an empty vessel has let down so many. Just rhetoric,. Every member of unionists parties, the few not the many. Letting down the young folk. Giving them false hope.

      The EU selection process is not only flawed. It is unworkable, undemocratic and cruel. Especially in Scotland that has been depopulated by Westminster centralist policies for years. Scotland can now assert itself with EU backing.

      Only time will tell if the Tories are voted down and out.

      At least people can vote to get rid of the Tories. People in Scotland can vote SNP. Stand up for Scotland. To vote the unionists out before they do more damage to the economy and the people.

    358. Ken500 says:

      Strange how the Westminster unionists want rid of people but still keep clinging on to Scotland. When a bit of negotiation would let them go their own way. Total hypocrites. Just goes to show the appalling way Scotland has been treated. Without any equality at all.

    359. ian macdiarmid says:

      Good comment Proud cybernat everything else is window dressing it really is as simple as that.We plant the seed of doubt,we keep our cool,we dont bore our target with endless facts. Engage them in as friendly manner as we can muster and thats how we will change the six percent we need for independence.

    360. Capella says:

      The National was missing from the BBCs collection of Scottish front pages today. So I looked to see and the big front page headline is that support for independence is rising.

      https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1078546089039425536?s=20

    361. Ken500 says:

      The needed support will come from those who normally do not vote. (25%) if they voted it would give the needed support. The entrenched unionists will not do it. Anyone who votes unionist or supports a unionist Party are seriously deluded. They are totally against more autonomy or Independence for Scotland. A relatively small declining bunch but still active in ruining the Scottish economy. Anyone who thinks they will get Independence through unionism is seriously deluded.

    362. Hamish100 says:

      ken 500 – agree that we need to get more of the non-voters to do so.

      SG / electoral commission? also has to tighten up the rules governing 2nd homes and the postal votes fiasco where unionists go round care homes and the like picking up 100% tory votes.

      As for residency rules 5 years or more for all persons seems reasonable and prevents the nonsense of students voting for something that will not impact on them directly as they head back to NI, Wales and the like.

      16 and over allowed to vote.

      Armed forces only allowed to vote for their country of origin.

    363. Capella says:

      Bizarre video from the Director of the Institute for Statecraft, Chris Donnelly. From his modest kitchen – although he does have an Aga, CD controls a worldwide web of spooks.
      Link form a comment on Craig Murray’s site, 7 mins:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=Jn5qyyDInTk

    364. Ken500 says:

      2 homers should not be voting. They should not have voting status. One main, official address to vote – UK Electoral Laws. The voting register has been up dated. Support for SNP vote and Independence is reported to be up. There are not enough Tories to go round care homes. The SNP/Independence vote will go up demographically. 3 years residential qualification. If that is possible because of administration procedures and logistics.

    365. Tom Busza says:

      Capella @ 8.27 am
      The National is there now, in all its glory, with the caption: “The National highlights SNP analysis which suggests most opinion polls over the past year have shown an increase in support for independence ” Note highlight, suggesting that BBC reckons, as its something to do with SNP, it must be dodgy anyway. That’s the way I see it anyways.

    366. Capella says:

      @ Tom Busza – thx I just checked myself – how gracious of them to post the front page and frame it for us. We can confidently expect all BBC reports on poll findings in future to tell us who commissioned the research.

    367. Hamish100 says:

      ken– had to read several times the 2 homers comment but understand second home owners are not allowed to vote. Problem is in rural Scotland how can this be checked properly should someone declare or in busy Edinburgh.
      As for care homes one unionist can gather 50 votes or more following a visit to help the unsuspecting.

      The issue is I agree getting the non-voters registered in time and hope that they see the pro-independence argument for what it is and stands for in a positive way. In this respect the grass routes of the Independence movement did sterling work I 2014. We will need the same again to get over the line.

    368. Ken500 says:

      The Polls have shown an increase. Now it is up to the people by all accounts to vote.

    369. Jomry says:

      Just want to strongly support the views of RJS and Breeks above. To many, I suppose the legal wrangling involved in an approach to the ECJ may seem esoteric and distant from the ever day realities we all have to face – but it is important that there is current external verification of the sovereignty of the people in Scotland since an independent Scotland will certainly require international recognition and acceptance.

      An ECJ ruling would lay firm foundations for this and strips away the legal arguments which would surely be brought forward to oppose Scotland’s legitimacy. It would certainly be something I would be willing to support through crowdfunding.

      It goes without saying that such an initiative would go alongside the effort to persuade enough people to vote for indendence in the first place – not instead of it.

    370. Ken500 says:

      It is up to the Councils administration which should be quite easy to check. If second homers are voting report it to the Council. It used to be easier to identify when they paid less Council tax. They should not be getting voting papers. Or be non identified on electoral role.

    371. Ken500 says:

      It is illegal to collect votes at Old People’s Home. Only to deliver leaflets. Why are the administration allowing it. Voting papers can be provided. Most care homes would not allow it. If they are being administrated legally. Anyone with knowledge of it should report to the authorities. Canvassers and lobbyist should not be allowed in Care Homes. It is against care commission rules.

    372. Elmac says:

      Re Liz g at 1.52

      Apologies for being a TV ignoramus – No TV licence. Stopped watching years ago.

    373. Ken500 says:

      Fraser Nelson’s wife is Swedish. A migrant family. He supports Brexit. Total hypocrite. Will she have to register etc?

    374. mike cassidy says:

      A link of which even Nana would be proud.

      The real world rips Tory MP a new one.

      http://archive.is/p4Olu

    375. Dr Jim says:

      Wilier than Sheer Khaan:

      Care homes, the preserve and hunting ground of that elusive but dangerous animal the Liberal Democrat where they find their prey defenceless and vulnerable
      Every election and campaign sees this predator make their way to the easy pickings of the elderly and infirm in the certain surety of an easy meal of the uninformed, and they guard their territory jealously always reporting any other political animal to the council or the care home itself of invasion of privacy or upsetting the old and bewildered while they stalk the residents with postal voting forms in hand ready to *help* the oldsters to fill them in

      Trusssst in meeee and you’ll seeee

    376. orri says:

      As it now stands it’s perfectly legal to be registered to vote in two or more locations in the UK at the same time.

      The illegal but is voting in multiple elections of the same type at the same time.

      You could vote for an MP, councillor, MEP, local and national referendum from as many different addresses as you wanted so long as you only cast a single vote in each.

      There was advice, if not campaigns online, on how to register for a postal vote in 2014.

      It’s worth noting that the post vote survey touted showing Scots born voters alone might narrowly have meant a YES win was only in Scotland and would still have resulted in a NO although far closer than 45:55.

      Also in the run up was a campaign to effectively stuff one or more online polls with unionists claiming that’d already been done by Indy supporters. Not going to work these days unless an effort is made to lie about their voting history. So a previous SNP/Yes voter might claim to change to a NO in future if not to Labour or another unionist party.

    377. Liz g says:

      Elmac @ 11.10
      No worries Elmac…

    378. Cubby says:

      It was nice while it lasted. No Rockshit or Colinshit or any Britshit – a good enough reason for Scottish independence in itself.

    379. orri says:

      There’s far more to Section 30 than independence.

      It’s the way to change the powers that Holyrood has either for a limited period of permanently.

      Included in it is the proper way for Westminster to protect it’s own legislation.

      The procedure includes a requirement that both Holyrood and Westminster agree on any changes.

      In all probability the Supreme Court have wilfully ignored that by focussing on the current legality of the Holyrood continuity bill rather than whether the protection introduced by the Westminster bill stood up to scrutiny.

      Then again the redefinition of consent they introduced is a rapist’s dream given all Holyrood can do is delay by refusing discussion. Debating a consent motion is deemed to be consenting.

    380. Proud Cybernat says:

      We should ensure that IndyRef2 is a totally different beast from IndyRef1. In 2014 the BritNat Establishment had a single target to focus upon and that made it easy for them to train their fire power. Let’s not make it so easy for them next time. The next campaign for our national liberation should be fought on several fronts.

      1) The IndyRef2 Campaign itself.
      2) A petition to the ECJ & ICJ to recognise the sovereignty of the people of Scotland.
      3) Removal of Elizabeth Windsor as Queen of Scots.

      Most of us here on WoS are fairly well versed in options 1 & 2 above. Option 3 has been spoken of here but not really pursued in any great depth. There has been many occasions during her reign that Elizabeth Windsor, QoS, has effectively betrayed the people of Scotland. Indeed, we need only look as recently as Novemeber this year when she gave Royal Assent to an amendment to the UK EU Withdrawal Bill that Elizabeth Windsor would surely have known would effectively nullify Scotland’s EU Continuity Bill. A betrayal. As we all know here on WoS, it is the PEOPLE in Scotland who hold the sovereign power, NOT the monarch. Under the terms of the Declaration of Arbroath, if the monarch fails to uphold the rights of the people then the people have the right to drive out the monarch as an enemy of the people. So, that is what we do – we remove Elizabeth Windsor as an enemy of the sovereign people of Scotland. And once removed, WM has no one to give Royal Assent to any Bills covering Scotland. Scotland effectively becomes ungovernable.

      Next campaign it’s gloves off and we really stick the boot into the corrupt BritNat Establishment – on ALL fronts.

    381. wull2 says:

      As care homes ae open to everyone, to me it is not easy to tell if the people are in control of their minds, so NO postal votes from care homes.
      You win some you loose some.

    382. orri says:

      Forgot to mention…

      No Scottish Tax Code, No vote in Scotland. It’s that simple. Even pensioners and the unemployed can get one of those. Those boasting about living here but dodging paying towards Holyrood’s budget as a kind of protest against the SNP can get to fuck.

    383. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just tweeted this poll, it’s on until Hogmanay.

      Would you support peaceful civil disobedience to protect the current rights of EU citizens living/working in Scotland?

      112 votes cast in the last half hour or so, 95% saying Yes.

    384. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Sorry, forgot to include link…

      https://twitter.com/ianbhood/status/1078623351495626752

    385. Fergus Green says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      28 December, 2018 at 12:36 pm

      Would you support peaceful civil disobedience to protect the current rights of EU citizens living/working in Scotland?

      What do you have in mind Ian? If someone in my neighbourhood was threatened with forceful repatriation, I would be happy to stand in front of their house and along with others, and challenge but not necessarily obstruct the Sheriff Officers. Tactics like this stopped the poll tax evictions in the early 80s and nobody got hurt. Certainly drew publicity and opened a few minds as well.

      I don’t do Twitter but count me as a ‘Yes’

    386. GusI says:

      Orri,
      I thought that with Individual Voter Registration you could only be registered at one address. If you register with a new authority then the new authority will remove you from your previous authority, see: https://www.yourvotematters.co.uk/faq/registering-to-vote/do-i-need-to-re-register-to-vote-if-i-move-home

    387. Phronesis says:

      Journalism worth fighting for. They won’t be left twiddling their thumbs whilst the ‘low –quality’ world leaders and the ‘low-quality’ individuals from ‘low-quality’ think-tanks crawl through the corridors of power. All merit investigation- corrupt business and banking practices, dodgy arms deals with repressive regimes to perpetrate mass civilian killings intertwined with political decisions that diminish democracy and human rights.

      Time for Scotland to protect its institutions of democracy and take itself out of this negative equation.

      ‘We believe 2019 will be the year we jointly stand our ground and fight back against the forces of opaque money and power, plutocracy, and globalized corruption and criminality — all fueling the growth of modern autocracy…We are going after the criminal services industry — the banks, hedge funds, law firms, registration agents, golden passport peddlers, and others that enable corrupt officials and the globalization of organized crime. Companies such as Danske Bank, Mossack Fonseca, Child & Child, and the Appleby law firm have helped criminals succeed beyond their wildest dreams. We will continue to name names through in-depth reporting backed by irrefutable proof’

      http://www.occrp.org/en

      ‘Democratic investigations turn up ample evidence of incompetence and corruption, that the economic recovery peters out (if not falling into recession), that Trump’s personnel picks continue the pattern of low-quality people replaced by even lower-quality people and that an international incident (which we’ve avoided to date) proves Trump’s total incompetence. At that point, Republican lawmakers’ loyalty to (or fear of) Trump will come up against their panic over their own political fates. Equally important will be the reaction of the donor class if the stock market continues to tank, siphoning off any gains they’ve enjoyed from the tax cuts’

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/27/how-low-will-trump-go-before-republicans-flee/

      ‘Bosses at Berkeley Group, the phenomenally successful housebuilder, were accused by their own former finance director of repeatedly bribing a partner at a major estate agent, of corporate tax evasion and of unlawfully disclosing price sensitive information – allegations he made in an extraordinary lawsuit’

      http://www.financeuncovered.org/investigations/berkeley-group-bribery-allegations-court-papers

      ‘As a no-deal Brexit looks increasingly likely, Britain’s Conservative government risks drifting closer towards repressive regimes in the Middle East to compensate for economic vulnerability, while diminishing the country’s influence over them, say analysts and human rights advocates… With the economic instability from Brexit, Britain’s dependency on alliances with countries such as Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Israel will only increase, making Westminster more reluctant to address further human rights violations… Britain’s Conservative government has so far focused more on retaining economic ties with Saudi Arabia and its coalition partners in Yemen, rather than using its role as UN Security Council pen-holder for Yemen to resolve the conflict’

      http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2018/9/12/britain-drifts-towards-repressive-regimes-as-no-deal-brexit-looms

    388. mac says:

      The BBC and Sky News seem very concerned about a couple of dozen illegal emigrants crossing the English channel.

      They should be more concerned about the mass exodus the other way once Brexit kicks in.

    389. Hamish100 says:

      here is the British News
      Knife crime is up in England and Wales
      Immigrants crossing the Manche sorry English Channel are up in England
      Prisoners using mobile phones in England and Wales
      A terrorist is arrested at Luton Airport. The individual is from Bedfordshire, England
      A stamp showing the Best of British (D-Day landings) is actually showing US troops in the Pacific during WW2. No comment if a real photograph of D -Day will include Canadian, US, Free French, Irish, Scots , Welsh or just English.
      An article about ducks in Madagascar.
      Labour and Brexit
      Northamptonshire England- potholes. The name Scotland is mentioned
      New York City, USA – THE SKY TURNS BLUE
      Scotland – nothing happens.

    390. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Fergus Green –

      Cheers for supportive response.

      I don’t have any plan in mind, but the level of outrage on Twitter is something to see – tweets from Christian Allard and Ruth Wishart in particular seem to reflect a real tipping-point.

      Hard to see how the SG can avoid making some form of statement about this – there is real anger and it’s growing fast.

    391. Fergus Green says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Thanks Ian. Good if people can come up with original and imaginative stunts that harm no-one and do not offend. Not necessarily Greenpeace style direct action, but something along the lines of what Fathers for Justice did a few years back. I was not a supporter of their cause but they got themselves noticed and on the front pages nevertheless.

    392. Ian Brotherhood says:

      For those who may not have seen it, here’s a link to that Home Office ad which is causing such rage:

      twitter.com/ukhomeoffice/status/1078206349148708865

    393. schrodingers cat says:

      Ken500 says:
      28 December, 2018 at 11:24 am
      Fraser Nelson’s wife is Swedish. A migrant family. He supports Brexit. Total hypocrite. Will she have to register etc?

      yes, and if we vote yes in indyref2, so will fraser 🙂

    394. Fireproofjim says:

      Proud Cybernat @12.15
      The matter of whether Scotland remains a monarchy after independence is a matter for after independence, not for the Inde2 campaign.
      It would be an unnecessary distraction and would be seen by many as an attempt to make Scotland some sort of hard left republican utopia. That would be an easy way of losing a large number of Yes voters, the majority of whom are moderate middle of the road people, not revolutionaries. Such a manifesto pledge would be a sure fire vote loser and would be manna from heaven for the Unionists and their media lackeys, who have already, in 2014, used North Korea as a model for an independent Scotland.
      Anyway Monarchy, although somewhat past its sell by date, is no barrier to the best of democracies.
      Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Belgium, Canada, New Zealand and Australia are all independent monarchies and are all model democracies. I wish we had their situation.

    395. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think there comes a time when the law proves itself inadequate to task of defending democracy.

      Civil Disobedience — Between Symbolic Politics and Real Confrontation

      Some consider civil disobedience too radical; an attempt to procure political power under the mantle of moral principles or a one-sided renunciation of the duty to obey and uphold the law, and that is not to be tolerated. Citizens in functioning democracies must limit themselves to the legally sanctioned possibilities available to them for expressing dissenting views and influencing the political process. From this perspective, civil disobedience is little more than political blackmail. Others consider it an impotent expression of a reformist yearning for cosmetic changes within the given system; as a socially permissible and harmless protest of well-intentioned citizens that remains purely symbolic and only contributes to stabilizing prevailing relationships.

      This essay attempts to show that both of these widespread views fail to fully address the specific characteristics of civil disobedience as a genuinely political and democratic practice of contestation. To present these specifics in detail, it is first necessary to define civil disobedience. Second, I situate this form of political practice between the opposing poles of symbolic politics and real confrontation. In a closing remark, I briefly examine the role of civil disobedience in representative democracies.

      http://criticallegalthinking.com/2012/07/02/civil-disobedience-between-symbolic-politics-and-real-confrontation/

    396. Liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood & Fergus Green
      Probably organising simple non compliance would be a good first step !
      This would force Westminster to act “against “ our EU people…
      Then we can respond to protect them?
      Although I don’t think the Westminster Government will act, because of the international repercussions….( or at least a sensible Government would have a care for the International effect, but with this lot who knows)…
      But either way, they cannot run a system that the people won’t comply with!
      EG… If all the unemployed decided to spend their 40 hours a week looking for work “actually “ in the job centre…. the system would break….
      Therefore if most of Scotland made the application especially if they forgot to add the fee.. the system itself couldn’t cope

    397. galamcennalath says:

      Fireproofjim says:

      Norway

      On principle I disagree with monarchy. However, when the best of the best democracies have royals, it’s hard to argue.

    398. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Liz g –

      Just had a Twitter DM from someone suggesting that no-one should even *think* about organising a day where every EU national affected by this phones in sick.

      😉

    399. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Liz g-

      Forgot to say, Christian Allard has already stated that he will not comply with this scheme.

    400. Liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 2.24
      I think he is quite right , hopefully he has enough of a profile to get a mass non compliance running, and it’s also worth pointing out that until March
      We are All EU citizens… so can quite legitimately apply to see if we too can stay!!!
      I also forgot to say count me as a Yes (I don’t have Twitter either)

    401. wull2 says:

      As WM does not Scotland to a vote to revoke A50, is there a address the twitter vote could be sent to in the EU.

    402. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Liz g – that poll has now taken over 700 votes in just a few hours – 96% would support civil disobedience to protect the current rights of EU workers in Scotland.

      That’s not going to change by more than point or two between now and Monday midnight but if we get the numbers up then it could be cited as a useful barometer of opinion. The question is straightforward enough and it’s Yes/No, nae wiggle room.

      Could those who use Facebook please give it a plug? Thanks in advance.

      https://twitter.com/ianbhood/status/1078623351495626752

    403. Fergus Green says:

      Christian Allard making a stance is admirable, as long as he is clever about it. It all depends how far he is willing to take things and whether, ultimately, the British state would use force to deport him. It reminds me of the Viraj Mendis situation in 1989 when a Tamil refugee, facing a possible death sentence in Sri Lanka was forcefully removed from sanctuary in a church in Manchester. Viraj survived and is now a civil rights activist in Bremen, but the manner of his deportation made headline news and led to questions being asked in parliament about the UK’s racist immigration policy.

      Not an exact parallel, but sometimes it takes action of this kind to get people questioning the way we treat our citizens and our guests.

    404. sandy says:

      All:

      My passport is out of date. Is it at all possible, as a European citizen, to apply for a 10 year European passport &, if so, how to go about applying?

    405. Ian Brotherhood

      I don’t do twitter but you can add my vote as a YES I would be prepared to stand up for my fellow human beings if they are being harassed and threatened with deportation because they happen to be EU citizens – and put me on any contact list too. Thank you.

    406. Dr Jim says:

      A rebellion eh we haven’t had one of those in a while

      I’m in

    407. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Well done Ian.

      I didn’t think the cons could sink any lower.They always manage to surprise with their evil intentions. How I despise the lot of them.

      Time for Indyref 2 must be drawing near?

    408. wull2 says:

      A walk out of SNP at WM, and if asked why, say, it the same percentage as the twitter vote.

    409. galamcennalath says:

      When most Scots want to retain their personal EU citizenship, why should be we stand back and allow those among us who are lucky enough to retain theirs be persecuted?

      We didn’t ask for this, we didn’t want this …. we now need to say we won’t go along with it!

      Brexit should be Engexit!

    410. orri says:

      I can foresee in the near future Westminster legislation being enacted restricting those who hold a foreign citizenship from holding an elected position even within devolved administrations. What better way to remove Christian Allard from office.

      The “unintended” consequences will be to bar anyone holding an Irish passport from doing so which might force new elections in NI. The only humorous bit would be if it removed unionists .

    411. Ken500 says:

      Neil’s wife is Swedish, Hunt’s wife is Japanese, Corbyn’s wife is Mexican. Most of Westminster are migrant families. Will they have to register?

      Lying Hypocrites.

    412. Breeks says:


      Ian Brotherhood says:
      28 December, 2018 at 12:36 pm
      Just tweeted this poll, it’s on until Hogmanay.

      Would you support peaceful civil disobedience to protect the current rights of EU citizens living/working in Scotland?

      112 votes cast in the last half hour or so, 95% saying Yes.

      Protect their rights? Absolutely, and I’d hide them in the attic if it came to it….

    413. louis.b.argyll says:

      Breeks said..
      ‘ Do you see why the case over Article 50 taken to the ECJ was so significant? It was lodged under Scots Law, not UK law, and the ECJ rebuffed the UK’s Supreme Court’s objections to the case being heard. That constitutes recognition of sorts, a measure of ascendency, but it’s only a step in the right direction.’

      Agreed, our case is fluid, our cause suppressed like democracy itself.

      We are Scotland, the nation of Scots, who by our ancestor’s will, remain bound to our responsibilities. Despite political union, Scots Law remains intact and although subjugated by Imperial convention, is internationally recognised.

    414. Brian Powell says:

      Ken500

      Interesting point on the wives. I wonder how they will feel knowing they will have to go through this process and their husbands are forcing it on others, especially as the Leave campaign said they would have continuing rights etc.

    415. Ken500 says:

      Tomkins wife is American. A migrant family. Will they have to register?

      Lying hypocrites.

    416. Ken500 says:

      They do not seem to have thought it through.

      Lying hypocrites.

    417. Ken500 says:

      The Tory/unionists really are a joke.

    418. Gfaetheblock says:

      Anyone know what the SNP position is on this if indyscot is in EU and England not?

      All English and other non EU nationals get to stay with no system to monitor?

    419. Ken500 says:

      Boris Johnstone was born in New York, brought up in Brussels, on EU money. With he have to register?

      Lying hypocrites.

    420. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Meg, Elizabeth, Breeks at al –

      Cheers aplenty.

      That’s 1,226 votes since late morning. Levelled out now at 95% Yes and will probably stay there.

      Don’t remember ever doing a poll where the result was so emphatic.

      Scots won’t tolerate this attack on our friends, neighbours and, in many cases, family.

    421. louis.b.argyll says:

      A campaign of civil disobedience is what is conventionally used against/to flag-up over-reaching bureaucracy.

      bureaucracy.
      1. a system of government in which most of the important decisions are taken by state officials rather than by elected representatives.
      synonyms: civil service, administration, government, directorate, the establishment, the system, the powers that be, corridors of power;

    422. Terence callachan says:

      England might well be trying to erase the identity of Scotland Ireland and Wales but it’s important that we let them have a vote on Scottish independence …..so some say…
      Blinded by the light

    423. sandy says:

      Charlie’s step-son’s wife is an immigrant. Believe bitchiness is somewhat prevalent in the palace at the moment, according to our all-knowing MSM. Is she going to be put on that “Windrush” type ship?

    424. galamcennalath says:

      Who should vote?

      An interesting observation is that if IndyRef1 had a similar franchise to that Cameron applied to EURef, Yes would have won.

      And, if Cameron had applied a similar franchise to EURef as was applied to IndyRef1, Remain would have won.

    425. Proud Cybernat says:

      Terence Callachan – whenever I see your name, I don’t read any further, I just scroll on by.

      I don’t do BritNat trolls. Just so you know.

    426. doug_bryce says:

      So : Tory government aided by state media ramping up fear of asylum seekers. Could it be connected to their attempts to shovel through Mays-bad deal ?
      Call me a cynic.

      Channel migrants: Home secretary declares major incident
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46705128

    427. We are in dangerous times, a royal wedding is urgently required to take people’s attention off poor government.

      Or, someone could fly a drone repeatedly over a major airport and not get caught. Then do it again and not get caught, that would distract folk for a while.

      Oh hold on …

    428. Ken500 says:

      IndyRef1 would not have won.

    429. Brian Cahill says:

      Merry Christmas Scotland.

    430. Bobp says:

      Hamish 100 9.23am ‘advocates 5 year residency rule for voting’ Absolutely agree,its pure common sense. Orri 12.26pm no Scottish tax code no vote. Common sense. Be careful guys or you.ll be getting called racist trolls. Terence callaghan I read your posts . I know who the trolls are on here.

    431. uno mas says:

      @ Terrence callachan 5.27pm

      “Blinded by the light”

      “Wrapped up like a duece, another runner in the night”?

    432. Bobp says:

      I also agree with other posts on here re the tightening of regulations regarding care homes and postal voting.

    433. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Oh here we go again. Yet another boring, boring, boring round of “othering” in the transparent guise of voter rights by the same wee tag team, faux-oblivious of their utter inability to make any change in the regulations (never actually having made any submission to the SG in the first place when the issue was live), and evidently with the sole intent of damaging the reputation of WoS in particular and the indy movement in general.

      What possible motive could there possibly be for such a group to persistently strive to alienate and disengage a section of the electorate whom they are entirely unable to disenfranchise yet which by their very own claims are a substantial presence? This takes self-harm to an entirely new level.

      Knaves or fools? Take your pick!

    434. Ken500 says:

      Does Tomkins wife earn over £30,000 from her parenting skills website. Will that be disclosed to register?

      Lying hypocrites.

    435. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. voting rights on constitution matters. Though I do support a minimum residency requirement, HMG supports human rights when it must (see Brexit). Scotland needs to do better. That’s not me being ethically egotistical, human rights and global sustainability are mutually supportive and both impossible to secure in isolation.

      Voting on Independence and National Issues: A Historical and Comparative Study of Referendums on Self-Determination and Secession

      Abstracts
      To date there have been fifty independence referendums. Some have been official, others unofficial. Some have been successful, and others have ended in failure. This article analyses how independence referendums have contributed to more civic engagement and how this use of the referendum can – under certain circumstances – enhance the ideals of participation espoused by the likes of Rousseau, Tocqueville and Mill.

      Keywords :Scotland, direct democracy, civic engagement, United Kingdom, referendum

      https://journals.openedition.org/rfcb/366

      Electoral legislation, principles and practice: a comparative analysis
      https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/150498/Electoral-legislation-comparative-analysis.pdf

      Human Rights as International Constitutional Rights
      ejil.org/pdfs/19/4/1660.pdf

    436. HandandShrimp says:

      Immigrants have tried to sneak into the UK (fairly successfully) for decades. 12 try it and we have a national incident?

      Incident? …..or Squirrel?

    437. Ken500 says:

      They are all married to foreigners, migrant families and they want people chucked out. Daft as a brush.

      Lying hypocrites.

    438. Iain says:

      I wonder, after Scottish independence will the 77th still take an intrest in this site or will the English army have other priorities.
      Only the commanders of the britnat trolls know.(if they do which I very much doubt )

    439. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Iain.

      Ask Trevor. There’s more than one or three of them appear here, btl.

    440. Liz g says:

      Iain @ 8.31
      I think we can take it as a given that Westminster will try everything it can to interfere in Scotland!!
      Resources aside Scotland will be direct competition for London.
      Even if it wasn’t… if Westminster canny rule it they try their best to wreck it…. That’s always been their problem with the EU.

    441. Terence callachan says:

      Robert j Sutherland ….
      As if asking English people nicely to ” VOTE FOR SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE ” will work !!
      It is that kind of view that will assist in the defeat of Scottish independence
      Half a million English people lived in Scotland 2014 accounting for nine percent of our population
      That figure rose substantially after the 2014 Scottish independence referendum and is now ten percent.
      There are many adult people living in Scotland who are not eligible to vote
      The rules that determine they are not eligible to vote are written by Westminster and are linked to their eligibility to reside here
      All countries in the world have such rules about who can live in their country ,for how long they can live there, whether they can vote whether they can claim social security benefits and use the NHS and any other government services
      They are not racist laws and rules they are rules of good governance

    442. Albert Herring says:

      Posted this before, but here’s the solution to the franchise problem.

      1. As suggested by several on this forum: declare that Westminster has broken the Treaty of Union and that it no longer stands, subject to a confirmatory referendum.

      2. In the interim, invite applications for Scottish Citizenship using eligibility rules generally accepted internationally, or just copy the UK rules.

      3. Hold the referendum. All Scottish citizens are eligible to vote.

    443. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I reckon it’s simple – and it’s what I submitted to the consultation carries out by the Scots Gov.

      If you’ve moved to Scotland FROM ANYWHERE, you must be 100% resident for 5 years to qualify to vote in a Scottish independence referendum (if a referendum is required to achieve dissolution of the Treaty of Union).

      The Scottish tax code would be an extra guarantee of eligibility.

    444. Bobp says:

      Brian doonthetoon. Absolutely spot on. 5yr residency. And NO contrary to belief on here. That statement doesnt make you a troll/anti english/ or a member of 77 brigade.

    445. dakk says:

      5 years residency,S prefix taxcode,and ginger hair.

      Belt and braces. Job done.

    446. cynicalHighlander says:

      A racist linking to a racist paper to justify his own bigotry is laughable, begone yee troll

    447. Bobp says:

      Belt and braces, ginger hair. See you jimmy, but your not an anti scots racist. Right?

    448. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Ages ago we discussed all this eligibility stuff and I mentioned an interview with Alex Salmond post-indyref where he explained that it was the single biggest headache the SNP had to deal with before publishing Scotland’s Future.

      Wish I could remember what show it was on, or even who the interviewer was, but it wasn’t a hostile MSM gig, pretty sure it was a filmed interview, perhaps at a book festival or suchlike. I do remember AS’s tone as a bit rueful but he seemed relaxed enough talking about it openly.

      I’m hoping you or sumbdy else may be able to recall where and when it was – that interview may yield some clues as to current SNP thinking on it all.

      😉

    449. jfngw says:

      BBC News softening us up, they describe 221 people attempting to cross La Manche as a deluge (about 28/week). If it rises to 30/week I assume they will change this to swarm.

    450. Rock says:

      Fireproofjim says:
      28 December, 2018 at 2:05 pm

      ” Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Belgium, Canada, New Zealand and Australia are all independent monarchies and are all model democracies. I wish we had their situation.”

      Canada, New Zealand and Australia are nothing more than an extension of the British Empire, all against Scottish independence.

      Who is their Queen, may I ask you?

    451. Bobp says:

      Accurate checkable stats posted from a racist paper, does’nt make someone a bigot.

    452. Rock says:

      Ken500 says:
      28 December, 2018 at 4:59 pm

      “Neil’s wife is Swedish, Hunt’s wife is Japanese, Corbyn’s wife is Mexican. Most of Westminster are migrant families. Will they have to register?

      Lying Hypocrites.”

      Kezia Dugdale’s partner is an SNP MSP.

      No bigger lying hypocrite in the world, in my humble opinion.

    453. jfngw says:

      Grief someone has let Annie Wells on twitter again, ‘we said no and we meant it’. Strangely we have said no to the Conservatives for over 60 years but they just refuse to go away, in fact in this time of non election in Scotland they have governed us for 60% of the time.

      It’s one reason Scots Tories detest independence and devolution, even when they are roundly rejected in Scotland they have a greater that 50% of still being in control. That’s what they call democracy, UK style.

    454. Rock says:

      Hamish100 says:
      28 December, 2018 at 9:23 am

      “As for residency rules 5 years or more for all persons seems reasonable and prevents the nonsense of students voting for something that will not impact on them directly as they head back to NI, Wales and the like.”

      “Armed forces only allowed to vote for their country of origin.”

      You want to deny English armed forces stationed in Scotland and recent English settlers the right to vote?

      Hamish100 says:
      27 December, 2018 at 11:36 pm

      “rock the Express and Guardian reader on overtime I note.
      We don’t want your racist britnat nonsense. cheers”

      What a hypocrite.

    455. Bobp says:

      Jfngw. Looked at a website forum the other day re the 4/5 iranians? Who landed at dover. The comments were vile, like something from nazi germany. Yup, there’s not a lot of brotherly love towards immigrants, down here in england.

    456. Dr Jim says:

      Nicola Sturgeon has a very difficult decision to make on Indyref because the repercussions of a NO vote could be huge for everybody in Scotland. and not just the political problems that would undoubtably follow

      A NO vote could begin a wave of the other kind of Nationalism the kind that Ruth Davidson and her crew have been trying to stir up for years but the Scottish population previously wouldn’t fall for it in the hope of a YES vote transitioning peacefully

      There are two ways it could go, either the NO voters become belligerent in their victory or the YES voters become angry in defeat and if that happens to transpire who’d want to live in Scotland then

      Bearing that in mind the best outcome is indeed a YES vote because the YES side of the argument has proved time and time again it is the more peaceful whereas the NO side which in general encompasses probably more Brexiters as well has shown itself to be the more aggressive and the more likely to be troublesome but when faced with the moderates in society who don’t cause problems whatever the circumstances would find themselves in the minority so are likely only to be noisy for a while and nothing more

      So if you’re an undecided moderate wondering how to cast your vote the safest bet is YES or you risk the possible fallout thereafter both political and societal

      And you know what Ruth Davidson will say she supports the principle of Scottish Independence the day after it happens because Westminster will tell her to in the hope of kicking the can down the road during negotiations for a third and final ref in say another five years time, which they won’t get but they will try

      A NO vote is the nightmare scenario…..for everybody!

    457. Rock says:

      Ken500 says:
      28 December, 2018 at 10:39 am

      “The Polls have shown an increase. Now it is up to the people by all accounts to vote.”

      The only political power the pretendy “sovereign” “plebs” of Scotland have is the right to vote, given to them by Westminster, IF AND WHEN SOMEONE CALLS AN ELECTION OR REFERENDUM.

      I believe that nice Saint Theresa of England and Wales will soon give the Scottish “plebs” that opportunity – to send some impotent Scottish MPs to Westminster.

    458. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      28 December, 2018 at 9:15 pm

      “If you’ve moved to Scotland FROM ANYWHERE, you must be 100% resident for 5 years to qualify to vote in a Scottish independence referendum”

      Elizabeth Stanley, what is your view on this 5 years residency requirement being proposed by some posters?

    459. Bobp says:

      A meditative post Dr jim.

    460. Golfnut says:

      Westminster gives nothing, the right to vote was taken by the threat of a million soldiers returning from the trenches to the same poverty they had left.

    461. Dr Jim says:

      Labour are arguing with themselves again over Corbyn it seems that many of them have noticed that Corbyn doesn’t actually have any Labour principles at all, and some think he’ll miraculously change overnight to being Labour if he wins an election and some are catching on to the fact he’s a con man who spent 30 years on the back benches because he actually liked it there…..you don’t need to do anything on the back benches, and he’s still doing a lot of that

    462. CameronB Brodie says:

      Report of the Independent Commission on Referendums
      July 2018

      4. Referendums and Democracy

      Principles of democracy

      4.4. In designing a framework for the conduct of referendums, it is important to have a sense of what goals that framework is intended to deliver. Above all, referendums are instruments of democracy, and they should therefore be designed in ways that enhance the operation of that democracy. There is no definitive list of democratic principles, but there is wide agreement on certain key features that democracy should promote.

      4.5. Decision-making based on popular will – At the most basic level, democracy is a set of processes through which citizens collectively determine how the country (or other unit) is governed. In one sense, therefore, decision-making can be seen as more democratic the more direct is the degree of citizen control over the final decision. But democracy should be conceived as being about much more than simply voting between options.

      4.6. Depth of participation in the decision-making process – Democracy extends beyond the simple act of voting because decision-making involves much more than just making a final choice. It must also include the processes of deliberation and compromise through which the options that best serve the interests of the widest range of people are conceived and developed.

      In diverse societies facing complex policy decisions, such processes of compromise and deliberation are essential.

      4.7. Breadth and equality of participation – If democratic decision-making is to reflect opinion across society as a whole, participation should be high and should spread as equally as possible across all parts of society.

      4.8. Freedom to form and express opinions – As they engage with decision-making processes, citizens should be able to form opinions without undue influence or coercion. They should also be able to access the information that they want from sources that they trust. It is for citizens themselves to decide what that means: some may want considerable information beyond what they already know, others very little. Trustworthy information should therefore be readily available, but it is for voters to decide whether and how to use it. Citizens should also be able to express and discuss their views freely.

      4.9. Freedom of the media – Free media are essential for creating an environment rich in ideas, information, and discussion. That includes print media, broadcasting, and an increasingly diverse array of online outlets. It may encompass news media, social media, information sources such as ‘voting advice applications’, and various other relevant channels.

      4.10. Transparency and scrutiny – Any democratic structure will inevitably create imbalances of power: in the context of referendums, for example, leading campaigners exert influence to a degree that ordinary voters do not. It is therefore important that processes of decision-making and of campaigning should, so far as possible, be public and visible to ensure that arguments can be scrutinised and challenged, and those in positions of power can be held to account. The conduct of elections and referendums should also be transparent and fair, so that results can be trusted.

      https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/sites/constitution-unit/files/182_-_independent_commission_on_referendums.pdf

    463. Rock says:

      Golfnut says:
      28 December, 2018 at 10:16 pm

      “Westminster gives nothing, the right to vote was taken by the threat of a million soldiers returning from the trenches to the same poverty they had left.”

      Was it “taken” without a law passed in the Westminster parliament?

    464. boris says:

      “The Supreme Court, which has hitherto sat only in London, may be deemed to exercise greater autonomy in the selection of topics for the reform of Scots civil law than the Scottish Law Commission itself.
      Lord Carloway:

      “While the criminal law court hierarchy in Scotland ends with the High Court of Justiciary, the Supreme Court can deal with particular questions relating to devolution and arising from civil or criminal proceedings.

      In some respects, the oversight of Scots Law from a position that is relatively remote, far removed from the practical realities of operating the Scottish legal system and of Scots society as a whole, is apt to have a depressing influence on the efforts of those operating positively within the jurisdiction.”

      https://caltonjock.com/2016/11/10/the-uk-supreme-court-an-illegal-pseudo-body-tasked-with-ensuring-the-protection-of-westminster-sod-the-scots-and-their-claim-of-right/

    465. mike cassidy says:

      While we wait for Rock to tell us you can only vote in indyref2 if you have lived here for 2640 years

      Here’s a beaut of a headline!

      See these foreigners!

      Coming over here.

      Solving our murder mysteries.

      http://archive.li/QkncJ

    466. jfngw says:

      Just spotted STV running story about a poll that says 10% of Scots would not accept a MSP of a different religion. Not sure how this poll was conducted but as only 7.2% of Scots attend church (and 42% of these are over 65) then they must have been scouring the bigots to come up with a number higher than churchgoers.

      No details about how this poll was conducted, could have been at an Orange Walk for all the we know. Also the nature of how the questions are asked is important, as we know it is easy to draw people into the answers you want by stacking the questions in a particular fashion.

      The MSM are always desperate to produce the me too stories to prove Scotland is just the same as the rUK, it’s as night follows day when a story breaks down south.

      Although if we are looking for the 10%, then I would try the WATP type of MSP, they could attract enough list votes to be permanently resident at Holyrood.

    467. Gary45% says:

      Some Yoon Troll please explain, why jolly Britnats warmly call themselves “Expats” when residing abroad, when non UK citizens coming to Blighty are called immigrants.
      If a foreigner coming here is an immigrant then a jolly Britnat living abroad is also an immigrant.
      This is something to say when traveling anywhere when the discussion arises, it should piss-off said Britnats..
      Ian Brotherhood@12.36
      I don’t do twitter/face book, but count me and the wife as yes for standing up to support the cause.

    468. Dr Jim says:

      @Gary45%

      It is odd how they refer to themselves as Expats when in fact the expression means the opposite from what they think it does

      Ex Patriots, meaning they used to be? or do they mean Exiled Patriots? Either way not really complimentary

      Ex citable, Ex cruciating, Ex crement, there are a lot come to think about it

    469. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Tories having been following an aggressively English nationalist agenda since Thatcher. Labour has done little to challenge this and are now forced to follow an isolationist, right-wing, political and economic fraud (Brexit). I genuinely feel sorry for England.

      Critical Race Theory and Education: Racism and anti-racism in educational theory and praxis
      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01596300500510229?src=recsys

      Critical Race Theory in Education: A Review of Past Literature and a Look to the Future
      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1077800414557825

      Minority Report
      Race and Class in post-Brexit Britain

      https://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploads/publications/pdfs/Race%20and%20Class%20Post-Brexit%20Perspectives%20report%20v5.pdf

    470. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Gary45% –

      Noted, with thanks.

      The poll has now 2,217 votes, 95% supporting civil disobedience to protect the current rights of EU citizens in Scotland.

      https://twitter.com/ianbhood/status/1078623351495626752

    471. orri says:

      If repatriation means a return to your land of birth then expatriation might be removal from the same.

    472. Dr Jim says:

      My Spanish paperwork said I was an *Extranjero* and I didn’t mind a bit but the Expats didn’t like it at all because they thought they weren’t foreign it was the Spanish who were the foreigners

      Ya gotta laugh

    473. mike cassidy says:

      Dr Jim

      The ‘expat’ issue is more complicated than you think.

      Definitely not just about a bunch of English gammons roasting in the sun!

      http://archive.li/smzR1

    474. North chiel says:

      “ Doug Bryce@ 0555 pm . No coincidence that the state propaganda outlets highlighting illegal migrants attempting to enter via the channel , at the same time May’s “ Brexit immigration mantra , taking back control of our borders / vote for my deal”. This despite the fact that illegal immigration has been ongoing for decades now . Apparently 200- -300 attempts over the past couple of weeks is now “ conveniently” a crisis . Just the latest subterfuge from the Westminster establishment propaganda outlets.
      Of course the Russian and Chinese “ bogeymen” will again be “ trotted out” , as we move towards independence, ( security scare stories will be to the fore in the usual cynical attempts to scare possible Independence minded “ neutrals” . The Russian & Chinese fleets will be waiting of the Ayrshire coast for Independence Day as probably Putin fancies a game of golf at Turnberry.). I predict defence will be the Westminster establishment ‘s line of “ attack”.
      The 24 hour state propanda outlets “ never sleep” . Just as well that “ cactus” is our “ night watchman” .
      Look out for major propaganda effort behind “ May’s deal” in the new year. Whether it’s May’s deal or no deal , Scotland’s sovereign wish is to remain in the EU . Our Holyrood and Westminster representatives have our mandate if either of these options come to pass.

    475. PacMan says:

      fngw says:

      28 December, 2018 at 10:52 pm

      Just spotted STV running story about a poll that says 10% of Scots would not accept a MSP of a different religion. Not sure how this poll was conducted but as only 7.2% of Scots attend church (and 42% of these are over 65) then they must have been scouring the bigots to come up with a number higher than churchgoers.

      No details about how this poll was conducted, could have been at an Orange Walk for all the we know. Also the nature of how the questions are asked is important, as we know it is easy to draw people into the answers you want by stacking the questions in a particular fashion.

      The MSM are always desperate to produce the me too stories to prove Scotland is just the same as the rUK, it’s as night follows day when a story breaks down south.

      Although if we are looking for the 10%, then I would try the WATP type of MSP, they could attract enough list votes to be permanently resident at Holyrood.

      I saw that when I was reading the front line of papers at the local supermarket.

      The question is not why 10% of Scots would not accept a MSP of a different religion but why would anybody ask that?

    476. Dr Jim says:

      Under the 30 year disclosure rule information has been released that the *British* governments position on Northern Ireland was to *Let the Irish keep butchering each other to death*

      On Sky news press preview scrolling along the bottom or the screen

    477. Breeks says:


      Dr Jim says:
      28 December, 2018 at 9:58 pm
      Nicola Sturgeon has a very difficult decision to make on Indyref because the repercussions of a NO vote could be huge for everybody in Scotland. and not just the political problems that would undoubtably follow…

      Not going to dwell on it Dr Jim, but the SNP is largely responsible for the position it is in with the clock ticking as it is. It didn’t have to be this way.

      The 2014 Vow could have been turned upon itself with a snap plebiscite to have the vague promises of more powers fashioned into a constitutional battering ram once the sovereign people of Scotland were dictating which powers we took back from Westminster. Constitutional showdown in 2014. Broadcasting might have been one of them. The sovereign mandate delivered by Scotland’s rejection of Brexit was a massive opportunity missed. Constitutional showdown in 2016. Scotland being excluded from Brexit negotiations could have been a Constitutional battle we’d have won, if not securing Independence then at minimum, securing Legal Personality in 2016/17. The recent ECJ ruling on Article 50 should have been followed up with a broadside of legal motions to clarify Scotland’s Constitutional strengths.

      All of the Constitutional issues which are now creating such a high pressure game of all-or-nothing jeopardy could have been squared away months, if not years, before now. We have forfeited much in unforced compromises, and to date, have little to show for it.

      There are now merely 90 days left, and yet our prowess in front of an open goal seems… how can I put it?…. Disquieting?

      Perhaps it might be appropriate to conduct a swift recalibration exercise of our Constitutional devices, priorities, and objectives… and a stern review of what can be done in under 90 days seems a prudent idea too.

    478. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      You read a fascinating article on the legal seachange regarding hemp in the USA

      http://archive.li/uAnG2

      And then discover there is pioneering work on hemp happening right here in Scotland.

      https://www.indinature.co/

    479. PacMan says:

      Terence callachan says:
      28 December, 2018 at 5:27 pm

      England might well be trying to erase the identity of Scotland Ireland and Wales but it’s important that we let them have a vote on Scottish independence …..so some say…
      Blinded by the light

      Wheres the Wally?

      WALTER

    480. Just listening to the national news on the radio just now – R4 Midnight news.

      Fascinating to know that the British Awards system known as the Queen’s New Year’s Honours List has only been given to famous English people …. oh and they’ve told us that most of the rest of 1,100 people receiving awards are not at all well-known as they only help out in their communities.

      With apologies to those I have not included in this list:

      Doddie Weir, 48, began his rugby career at Melrose before going on to play for Borders, Newcastle Falcons and Scotland.
      The former lock announced in 2017 that he had been diagnosed with MND and went on to found the My Name’5 Doddie Foundation, which has now raised more than £1m.
      Weir has become an OBE for services to rugby, MND research and to the community in the Scottish Borders.
      He said it was a “great honour” to receive the award.
      ———
      Prof Ferguson, Regius Professor of Life Sciences at the University of Dundee, said he was “thrilled” to receive a knighthood.
      The academic is one of the UK’s most eminent life scientists and helped build the university’s Drug Discovery Unit.
      It has attracted more than £75m of investment and works with international health agencies and pharmaceutical companies to combat diseases such as tuberculosis.
      The unit is also developing an anti-malarial drug now in human trials.
      —————–
      And Connor Roe, who was involved in rescuing 12 Thai boys and their football coach from a flooded cave, is honoured for services to cave diving overseas.
      —————-
      Ex-head teacher Elaine Wyllie is made an MBE for services to the fitness of children.
      She founded the Daily Mile in 2012 when she was head teacher of St Ninian’s Primary School in Stirling.
      Ms Wyllie came up with the idea of getting children out of the classroom for 15 minutes every day to walk or jog at their own pace.
      The initiative has now spread to more than 6,600 schools in 55 countries.
      —————
      Nicola Benedetti has said she is “very grateful” to be recognised in the New Year Honours List.
      The Ayrshire-born musician is in demand with major orchestras across the globe and is renowned for her concerto performances.
      Ms Benedetti, who is currently on tour in China with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra, said: “I am very grateful to receive this honour and hope only to take this opportunity to further my fierce commitment to providing enrichment, inspiration and variation to the education system and communities of the UK.”
      —————–

      Ms Gloag, OBE who co-founded the Stagecoach transport empire with her brother Sir Brian Souter, is made a dame for services to business and philanthropy.
      In 2008 she set up the Perth-based charity Freedom from Fistula, which provides free maternity care and surgery to women injured in childbirth.
      Its three main projects are in Sierra Leone, Malawi and Kenya.

      So, as you can see folks, they are not well known names and they only work in their local communities.

      Aye right!!!

    481. Chick McGregor says:

      Time to wish all Brexiteers a very scary Brexmas and Nappy New Year.

    482. ronnie anderson says:

      Dr Jim and once again Westminster demonstrates that England is the be all and end all & fuck the other nationalities in their so called Union , more ticks in the Yes box .

    483. Dr Jim says:

      @Breeks

      It’s always easy to pontificate after the event when you’re not faced with either the decision or the information as was at the time

      *Journalists* and folk like us get to pontificate all the time without any consequences, Scotlands position is powerless without the absolute certainty of the populations support, without that support Scotland will remain a colony although I know a different colony from what the UKGuv thinks it will be

      It won’t ever be business as usual ever again if there’s a NO vote of that I’m certain and I guess the FM knows that fine well so it has to be a much better than evens odds on a YES vote before she takes the chance of plunging Scotland into a very bad situation that sees Scotland tear itself to pieces once Westminster puts its boot down on Scotlands neck

      And they will, first chance they get, and they will rue the day and so will we, everybody will lose

    484. Cactus says:

      The callers from England are fair going radio rental (Paul & friends) on LBC wireless radio the NOW… ahm noticing a growing trend from their callers south of our border. Caller saying all immagrants should be taken up to Scotland and dumped on our islands haha!

      Watch out for these British Nationalistic persons, they be crazy!

      Lookin’ forward to your last toon of 2018 Chris, cheers.

    485. Dr Jim says:

      @ronnie anderson

      As you know my Mum was English so half my family is in the midlands and half here in Scotland and I can assure you even my own family in England understand nothing about Scotland, they don’t even understand me, politically that is, they don’t get it and never will because it’s ingrained in them that England is the superior nation, they don’t know why it’s just something they think they know and believe and you can’t shake it

      Not one of them has any education to speak of or information to support what they believe, they just know, and therein will always lie the problem

      You can’t reason with folk who believe you’re a lesser mortal than they are, a dog with rabies will bite you, it doesn’t know it has rabies, England doesn’t know it has a political and personal problem, England thinks everybody else in the world is wrong, so Scotland has to defend itself and the best form of self defence is not to be there

      It’s around 73 countries that have taken their Independence from the *British* and they still haven’t twigged or don’t want to admit it’s because those other countries didn’t like the way they were treated

      There are big fancy words for that behaviour I prefer the ordinary words, and there are a lot of them

    486. CameronB Brodie says:

      Remember, Scotland needs immigration.

      Migration Crisis and “Brexit”

      Abstract and Keywords

      The issue of migration bridges the divide between short-term and long-term explanations of Brexit. Short-term explanations stress the drift toward a referendum in British politics, the opportunistic miscalculation by a playboy prime minister, and the manipulation of the referendum vote by a grotesquely biased press and some of the same conspiratorial forces which secured Trump’s election. Longer-term explanations point to historical differences between the UK and (the rest of) Europe; the fact that the UK escaped defeat and occupation in World War II; the distinctive legal system shared by England, Wales, and Northern Ireland (though not Scotland); and the UK’s majoritarian political culture. This chapter discusses, in a comparative context, the contribution of a migration crisis to the UK’s EU membership and constitutional crisis.

      Keywords: Brexit, migration, free movement, European Union, European citizenship

      http://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780190856908.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780190856908-e-7

      Brexit and Migration
      http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2018/608835/IPOL_STU(2018)608835_EN.pdf

      Identity, Belonging and the Role of the Media in Brexit Britain
      https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=ES%2FR005133%2F1

    487. Ken500 says:

      Ruth Davidson’s partner is Irish. Will she have to register. Does she earn over £30,000.

      Lying hypocrites.

      More lies from the Mail, unless the Churches are abusing people. Statistically it does not add up. Just more nonsense. So 9 in 10 the majority would vote for a candidate of any religion. Or no religion at all 50%+. People would vote for anyone. They do not give a damn about what religion. Plus non voters. Cancels out the argument. 40% do not vote at all. Any affect is minimal. Swings and round about.

      More troughers in the House of Lords. Bursting at the seams. Most of them should be in jail for crimes against humanity. Lying hypocrites.

    488. Ken500 says:

      Fraser Nelson and other Tories want their wives and children deported because they do not like foreigners. Fraser will enjoy Sweden a nice place to live. Just hope they like foreigners.

      That’s how ridiculous it becomes.

      May is a wicked, wicked person. Never out of the Church who are supposed to love one another. She likes deporting foreigners. The Tories delayed the vote to ruin people’s Christmas and New Year. Supposed to be honouring a God of love. Javid, the failed banker, is a total hypocrite. People come to Europe because Westminster polititicans blew their homes and countries to bits because they do not like foreigners. Wicked beyond belief. Westminster have displaced millions of people. Always blaming everyone else.

    489. Ken500 says:

      Pity Stagecoach could not operate a proper bus service. Giving £Millions to charity but denying people a proper bus service. A monopoly. Denying people the right to transport, especially in rural areas.

      The most honourable people do not want honours.

    490. ronnie anderson says:

      Dr Jim I have a brother in Birmingham who thinks Maggie Thatcher was the bees knees & Im a communist because I was in unions ( Ricky Tomlinson has a lot to answer for ) he threw a brick at my brother during the miners strike , glad to say he wont be back to stay with me Burnt his Bridges n aw that .

    491. ronnie anderson says:

      Mental Olde engerland . Kent police are launching a pilot scheme to provide trained dogs to Court witnesses & victims for emotional support , another waste of money better putting more police on the streets .



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