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Life moves pretty fast

Posted on January 16, 2019 by

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    746 to “Life moves pretty fast”

    1. Mike says:


      Interesting Love to know how you managed to link to it? It seems to be a single one off comment which doesn’t have the same tone as the present occupier of the account.

    2. Rock says:

      For the record, I do not support “UDI” and never have.

    3. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      The Russian Carrier was fully armed with planes and missiles and could have hit any target in the United Kingdom without reply.

      The Kuznetsov was moored about 30 miles from Lossiemouth with 3 squadrons of Typhoons and Tornadoes at the time, maybe 36 aircraft, plus land-based air defence.

      Plus almost certainly an Astute not so far away which had already taken a photo through the periscope earlier on.

      Bye bye Kuzntesov and all its aircraft.

    4. Mike says:


      Im not disputing the factuality or not of what you post Im pointing out that its meaningless worthless and irrelevant.

      You could try emailing the Westminster Parliament and explain to them your articulate definitions of our constitutional rights and sovereignty and we can hope that they read it acknowledge it and insist we take our Independence without delay.
      Or we can face reality and take heed of the fact that they don’t give a fuck about our Sovereignty the Act of Union Democracy legitimacy or legality and prepare ourselves for a nasty ugly encounter with a Fascist state hell bent on imposing their political will and dominance.

    5. Ahundredthidiot says:

      And the MSM wont say this….

      ….this New England favour a No Deal Brexit

      I’m a Scot! Get Me Out of Here!!!!

    6. Liam says:

      jfngw says:
      17 January, 2019 at 9:51 pm

      How fondly I remember internet newsgroups, were you could mute people and their post would never appear on your screen. The web blog btl system has never reached this level of sophistication unfortunately.

      Ah yes. I miss the ability to ‘Plonk’ people… Saved a lot of aggravation. Starved the attention seeking little shits out.

    7. yesindyref2 says:

      Give up. You may have been serious with a previous comment, in which case leave this alone, and try to come up with a normal interesting comment, maybe, indeed, about oil or currency. Or even GERS …

    8. ronnie anderson says:

      sassenach Save your breath some people cant help themselves and there is no consideration as to how others suffer on WoS by Trolls commandeering the threads .

    9. Jock McDonnell says:

      Listen, Blubber wi Flubber, its quite simple.
      In so far as there is a UK constitution for Westminster to be responsible for, responsibility relates to how the UK is ordered while a UK exists. If one party withdraws from the treaty or shoves the treaty up the other party’s arse, there is no UK, there is then hee-haw to order.

      Toodle-oo-the-noo, I’ll let ye get yer next pie.

    10. ronnie anderson says:

      Its saying something when Question Time is a good diversion from Wings tonight

    11. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      17 January, 2019 at 10:13 pm

      “The section 30, for want of a better description, is a red herring. Westminster will only grant one when they think there is no chance of an independence referendum being won. Therefore we will only get one when we don’t want one i.e. The odds are against us.”

      In other words:

      Rock (14th March 2017 – “Some things are simple”):

      “Saint Theresa of England and Wales has no option but to deny permission until after Brexit has been completed, or the Scottish colony is lost.”

    12. Cactus says:

      Yer right Ronnie, entertainment on all levels 🙂

    13. Bob Mack says:


      Imposing political will or views happens even on these threads,don’t you think ?.Do not become what you hate. Give your view by all means but a bit of respect is required bud

    14. Hamish100 says:

      Mike your response to me was gobbledygook. Please take your tablets. Ps you remind me of rock but

    15. Mike says:


      You expect to go online to a forum and find everybody in agreement with everybody else?

      You think that forums should be policed until they do?

      Why don’t you simply stand in front of a mirror and express yourself to the only forum you should expect agreement from you withering fucking imbecile.

    16. Mike says:

      @Bob Mack

      I hear you lets hope its contagious.

    17. Mike says:

      Gordon Brown thinks Theresa May has the authority to force the EU to extend the Brexit deadline for another year.
      Why is this cretin allowed media coverage?

    18. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindyref2 if everything was hunky dorry regarding the Russian Battle Group why then did they divert a frigate with only one working engine on its way to the knackers yard up to shoo off those pesky ruskies? The Royal Navy like the rest of the UK armed services is a shadow of where it was even forty years ago. Morale is very low in all the services, I have spoken with serving and ex serving soldiers, airmen and Naval personnel , all tell me that Morale is very low, especially after they made personnel redundant who were coming upto 22 years service and a large pension entitlement. If not already the UK armed services are very close to being non effective and unable to meet current commitments.

    19. Petra says:

      Jeezo the vast majority of the audience on QT want a No Deal Brexit.


      @ jezza says at 10:53 pm …. ”The Rory on Question Time,,,is that the same Rory who tried to build a Cairn in Annan???”

      Jezza, Boris has put together an excellent comprehensive article on Rory the Tory. You can scroll to the end to get the answer you’re looking for.


      And Isabel Oakeshott’s on the QT panel. Check her out.

    20. jezza says:

      England don’t have the bottle to attack ANY Russian warship.

      Russia would wipe the floor with England.

      No problem.

      The English cowards only fight countries who can’t defend themselves, and even then they need America to come on and help them out.

    21. Elmac says:

      I see that Phil the Greek is in the news. There was a rumour that he was in a vegetative state on life support which would be switched off at the most politically expedient time. Looks like he came round and made his escape in a Land Rover.

      Massive coverage of his miraculous injury free escape but little mention of the occupants of the other vehicle who were injured, albeit their injuries were minor, but I suppose plebs are ten a penny.

      Phil apparently was joining a major road from a driveway when the accident happened which suggests he was at fault. I would like to know:

      1. Will he will be charged with dangerous driving, fined, and potentially lose his licence?

      2. We are told Phil, together with the others was breathalysed. Are we really expected to believe this?

      3. Has his licence been renewed as required after age 70 at 3 year intervals, and have the medical queries on the renewal applications been completed correctly? In short does he hold a valid licence? Seems unlikely at age 97.

      4. Having been born outside the UK, in common with the Windrush people, will he now be deported to Greece?

      No prizes for the correct answers.

    22. ronnie anderson says:

      Cactus WAVES lol

    23. jezza says:

      Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbot were/are lovers.

      Just sayin’…

    24. ronnie anderson says:

      Cactus ah hud ah better time wie the Dentist this morning than ave hud oan Wings tonight .

    25. Doug Bryce says:

      Just went to see Gordon brown speak at Ian Murray’s brexit emergency work shop… Good public speaker. Two obvious problems with content though…

      1) Corbyn doesn’t want a peoples vote
      2) Second vote for UK but not Scotland.

      Could almost smell the fear. UK is on its last legs.

    26. cynicalHighlander says:

      17 January, 2019 at 11:12 pm

      Those where the days looked for The version by Dana who won eurovision song contest 1970 but google kept going to someone called Hopkins!

    27. K1 says:

      There are literally hundreds of comments from geeo over the years Mike.

      Give up eh?

      Your’e just angry, understandable. Don’t take it out on fellow travellers.

    28. Petra says:

      As per usual the QT audience is choc-a-bloc with Tories and I’m not one bit impressed with Fiona Bruce. Twenty nine years working for the BBC seems to have ”got” to her.

    29. Cactus says:

      Hehe both are very necessary Ronnie, it comes in big roller-coaster waves, peaks and troughs.

      Ride the Lightening!

    30. Dr Jim says:

      That would be Mary Hopkins, she won opportunity knocks and went on to become very successful although I’ve no idea how or why

    31. Bob Mack says:

      @Ronnie Anderson,

      Did you get laughing gas ?

    32. ronnie anderson says:

      Cactus ah no be riding the lightning nor his pal lightfoot lol

    33. Fairliered says:

      Auld Phil’s big bid for freedom after being told he is going to be bumped off on 28th March.

    34. Liz g says:

      jezza @ 11.34
      Struggling tae care,got any actual political comment?

    35. ronnie anderson says:

      FFS am contemplating watching This Week wie Brillo & the Comedians

    36. Liz g says:

      Don’t dae it Ronnie
      We’ll behave

    37. Fairliered says:

      Petra: Mrs Fairliered, who isn’t as politically paranoid as me, commented that Rory the Tory and Isobel Racist were allowed to comment unimpeded whereas Kirsty Blackman and Diane Abbott (who she has no time for BTW) were constantly interrupted.

    38. Petra says:

      Scunnered with Fiona Bruce constantly cutting off Diane Abbott and Kirsty Blackman, such as the minute she mentioned what Scotland is doing about climate change … FB, ”we don’t want to hear about that.” Move on.

      Rory the Tory, on the other hand, yapped his head off from beginning to end.


      Fiona Bruce:-

    39. geeo says:

      Fiona Bruce cuts KB dead as she was about to highlight Scottish gov climate change credentials.

      **change the subject** screamed in her earpiece no doubt.

    40. Iain mhor says:

      Visits to make conversation, hears big domestic, closes door slowly, goes to mates hoose instead.
      Aye, bud, it’s all kicking off big style roon there – it’s like a week in the Riddrie Hilton – fuck that noise.

    41. Petra says:

      @ Fairliered ……

      SNAP, lol.

    42. Dr Jim says:

      You shouldn’t watch QT it’s bad for your mental health watching whole audiences of ill informed persons 100% sure they should rule the world just because they’re British

      Bloody white people I’m so sick of them, they’re so white it goes all the way through even their blood’s white, an audience of Trumps every flaming week

      I’m Scottish white and in this Union that means I’m the wrong colour for the UK Trumps of England land

      Aaz gwine make some kawfee now massas fo ahm dun bein scolded fo bein uh racisist Mm Mm Mmmm grumble grumble sylvester where is you dang cat

    43. Mark Fletcher says:

      That darling of the Home Counties, Fiona Bruce, was amazingly snappy with our own Kirsty Blackman. Fiona Bruce needs to keep her calm – she was beginning to turn a bit purple in the face.

      The only BBC type I have any time for is Emma Barnett on Radio 5L. She alone does not treat SNP politicians like tiresome children.

    44. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Fiona Bruce? No. Certainly no. Treatment of Diane Abbot, ,audience and chair,very bad.
      Rory Stwart looks like Keith Richard.

    45. ronnie anderson says:

      lig g to late am aw ready committed , an ah wull be committed if ah huv tae endure these Trolls much longer & the Wingers who are keeping them engaged.

      We need aw our Yes/ProIndy pages freed ( Troll Free ) up to get salient information out to the Independence movement , we cant be wasting our time in replying to useless articles .

    46. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      “I’ve been struggling all day to remember a conversation on here about an absolute cut off date as January 21st,but I canny mind the way of it?”

      Might have been me that lead you to believe that, this was the gist of it.

      The EU Withdrawal Act also sets out parliamentary procedure for a ‘no deal’ scenario. A no deal Brexit for the purposes of the legislation is carefully defined:

      1. If Parliament has decided not to pass the Government’s motion to approve the Withdrawal Agreement and future framework.

      2. If, before 21 January 2019, the Government tells Parliament that no agreement can be reached.

      3. If after 21 January 2019, no agreement has been reached.

      In any of these instances, the Government would have to make a statement to Parliament setting out what it intended to do next.

      I would think now though that this has been superseded and we are on virgin territory where anything might happen.

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      @Liz g

      The RN always have a frigate or destroyer as Fleet Ready Escort, to indeed escort the likes of the Kuznestov through international waters around the UK. And its based around Portsmouth. No, I don’t agree either, there should be one based in Scotland, probably Faslane or east coast.

      But it’s not to sink the ship if it decides to attack the UK as the silly media would like to make out, it’s partly a courtesy escort, partly to avoid incidents like some nutcase Boris Johnson lookalike deciding to ram it with their jetski, and also partly to make sure they observe the Law of the sea – like fly tipping more than just galley gash. And indeed Angus Roberstson complained about the Kuznetsov doing just that in the Moray Firth – in international waters, but maritime states have a duty of care over their EEZ for such as environmental protection.

      In that particular case the Kuznetsov “sheltered from a storm” while on exercises (where she flew off jets). The decision had been made by NATO NOT to shadow the exercise which had a missile cruiser as well. It’s all about avoiding incidents. But the Kuznetsov and other ships were tracked to the metre from Murmansk I think it was, all the way there and back again. PLus the Norweigan air force and the RAF. So reports of being found by a fishing boat on the internet were total nutjob media stories – the likes of the DT and DE don’t like the RN or any of the forces for that matter.

      But they were almost certainly tracked by an Astute, which is capable of holding off a Yank silenced sub at 100 or 200 nm, I forget which, something which impressed the Yanks considerably. The Kuznetsov is not quiet, relatively small, smoke or heat free, or subsea, it’s a bloody big old smoky hot noisy carrier. You could probably track it with a slightly modified hearing aid from anywhere in Scotland and some infrared goggles (I made that bit up).

    48. Liam says:

      Dr Jim says:
      17 January, 2019 at 11:42 pm

      That would be Mary Hopkins, she won opportunity knocks and went on to become very successful although I’ve no idea how or why

      Dammit! now I have that fecking tune going round in my head. But, thank you for making me go look her up. I never knew she was married to Tony Visconti the producer of Mr David Bowie’s fine records. You live and learn.

    49. jezza says:

      Liz g


    50. Cubby says:

      Yesindyref2@11.13 pm

      Not you and GERs again. Battleships and GERS. LOL

    51. ronnie anderson says:

      G/N all ma days dun

    52. Dr Jim says:

      @Liam 12:09am

      I’m so sorry man they call it an earworm when you can’t get rid of a tune out of your head and I just made it worse

      It would’ve been alright if it was one you liked but it never is and makes you mental

    53. Petra says:

      Andrew Neil – This Week:- ”The Anglesey Nuclear plant suspension could lead to a 25% reduction in electricity. A UK energy crisis”

      Too bad they’ve, Westminster, done everything in their power to scupper Scotland’s renewable energy sector. Shortsighted or what? We’ll be alright but when we leave they’ll be paying through the nose for any imports that they get from Scotland. You know the too wee and poor Scotland, the financial liability, that’s full of stupid Scots.

    54. Capella says:

      I see “Mike” has clocked off for the night. Can I suggest that genuine Wingers completely ignore troll bait. Then the rest of us might be able to post a comment on the topic instead of scrolling endlessly past dross.

    55. Colin Alexander says:

      My comment on Craig Murray’s blog:

      The people of Scotland are sovereign but, we were forced into a binary choice in 2014: Remain a colony v independence

      We remain sovereign, even though the people rejected full independence in 2014 that was an act of sovereignty. So why couldn’t they have been able to decide to make Holyrood as the Parliament representing Scotland’s sovereignty and declare the House of Lords defunct or unrecognised by Scotland, as it is undemocratic. I’m sure many across the UK would have welcomed Scotland sacking the House of Lords.

      The effect being that Holyrood would have to give its consent to any UK Parliament legislation, Scottish Parliament Assent instead of Royal Assent.

      We now have a Commons where Scots MPs are second class MPs, we could have had a Commons where all UK MPs are second class MPs and Scotland’s MSPs represented our sovereignty and so could overrule unfair legislation.

      I know that would never be acceptable, it would be like treating England like a colony. So why has it been accepted when Scotland is treated like a colony and our sovereignty is overruled by unelected Lords?

      If we are sovereign enough to create the Union, we are sovereign enough to change it, re-write it or dissolve it or whatever option the sovereign people decide. It shouldn’t be take it or leave it referendum, Best scaremonger and best false predictions wins: Winner takes all.

      However, since then, the Union is even more toxic to Scotland. Best to dissolve it completely.

      It’s just a pity the SNP are busy trying to save the UK, instead of trying to save Scotland.

    56. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Lenny Hartley at 6:29 pm.

      You typed,
      “Howdonwe find out from Norfolk Police if the 97 year driver who caused a RTA by driving without due care and attention was breathalised and if not whynot?”

      It was said, on either BBC or ITV News that both drivers had been breathalysed and found to be negative.

    57. Cubby says:

      Meg Merrilees@

      Yes. I saw his speech as well. It is a pity someone didn’t tell Ms Grant on Scotland Tonight earlier when she kept saying Scotland will have to do a Catalan style referendum. Bloody annoying when the media come out with such crap.

      On the plus side Pamela Nash from Scotland in Union was on and she is just useless. Let’s hope SIU stick with her. All she could do was parrot – your not getting permission for a ref. Put her up in a debate and she would get slaughtered.

      I would prefer no sect 30 as it would keep Westminster out of the official aspects of indyref2.

    58. Liz g says:

      Petra @ 10.21
      Thank you for the link…. It is potentially that??
      But I think is probably more “that pnr” that’s misled wee me!
      Thepnr @ 12.08
      Yes I think it’s probably that I’m thinking of.
      But as ye said things change so fast… Mibbi Aye Mibbi Naw..
      LOL.. I just hope I haven’t told any body who only pays a wee bit of attention to look out for the 21st..LOL…I do that a lot…I really try to answer people like I can tell what’s going on,and Brexit is a different animal from our Indy Ref but, .. anything for a yes vote!!!
      Jezza @ 12.11
      Just tryin to lighten things up and get back to politics!

    59. Mike says:


      And yet you can only manage to put you hand to one single comment. How you managed to find it now that’s a question for the ages. kind of makes me think you knew exactly where to look.

    60. Dr Jim says:

      Catalonia is the same as Scotland I tell you, you’ll be forced to use the Euro, Spain will veto entry into the EU, the polls the polls, SNP members didn’t vote in 2016 that means they’re all going to vote Tory or Labour or even Lib Dem, there are more Yoonion voters than SNP voters, gonnae please all go away back to your own country, (I like that one it’s particularly mental)

      And if you get space to answer all those questions you end up with *Nooo Suuuurendur* Naw never we rule

      Which I find really drills down to the nub of the debate

    61. Liz g says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 12.30
      And we absolutely positively Believe them!!
      Its the BBC they never lie.

      See whit ah did there Brian??

    62. cirsium says:

      @Petra, 11.25

      Was interested to note two of the QT panel – Rory Stewart-ex MI6, Isabel Oakeshott-one of the cluster of UK journalists recruited by Integrity Initiative(the military intelligence propaganda operation)

    63. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: The Claim of Rights.

      This quote is taken from the link below. (My capitalisation.)

      “Under James VII during the ‘Glorious Revolution’ the “Thrie Estaites” looked again at the contractual notion of Scottish kingship, and offered the throne to William and Mary on the basis of the 1689 Claim of Right, which was enacted into Scots Law as a statute and REMAINS ON THE LEGAL BOOKS OF THE UK TO THIS DAY. In Scottish constitutional terms Elizabeth, Queen of Scots, is on the throne because the people say so, and if we decide the House of Windsor is in breach of its contract they can be expelled just like James VII before them.

      For example, if the Queen were to publicly state that she did not wish Scotland to be independent (as many of the Unionist persuasion like to claim), she would be acting contrary to the requirements of the 1689 Claim of Right, as it is not within her power to decide on this issue nor use her position to influence the decision in any way – Elizabeth, as Queen of Scots, must accede to the wishes of the Scottish people, or lose the right to the Scottish crown.”

    64. North chiel says:

      Very perceptive post from Maria F @ 0256 pm yesterday. This is exactly why our FM has to be so very precise on the exact timing of her announcement. There must be absolutely no “ get out “ for the Britnat establishment government and 2nd eleven “ shadow gov”. You can be certain that if “ discussions eventually take place” between the Britnat political parties and gov. that “ the preservation of the precious precious union “ will be uppermost in all aspects of the Brexit “ Britnat collusion” .

    65. K1 says:

      Mike…good grief man, copy and paste:

      “geeo says:”

      into google search engine,. It was and is that simple, I found all his posts, you just scroll through them and find the earliest year and month.

    66. jezza says:

      Cactus,,,fur god sake geez a song pal.

    67. K1 says:

      Here’s 2 other ‘random’ posts from geeo…it’s literally a piece of piss to find anyone’s comments, all of them, that they have ever written on Wings. Get a grip.

    68. Liz g says:

      Dr Jim @ 12.40am
      Oh Dr Jim ye really should have watched the Lord’s debating the Union tonight…
      They are certain Scotland will be in a really COLD place for a good few years if we leave the UK Union….
      Yells I at the telly…
      WE’VE BEEN IN A COLD PLACE FUR CENTURIES…You obviously have never been here,and mair tae the point either don’t know of or can’t admit,We’ve enough of they resources tae keep us quite warm…..
      Honestly if it had been ma telly… I shit ye not Dr Jim it would not have survived…

    69. North chiel says:

      Elmac@ 1126 pm , really made me laugh tonight with your last point 4 of your post ! Somehow though , I don’t think so !!

    70. Dr Jim says:


      It’s because we’re north of the wall with the ice people and the wildlings, our cousins in the south save us from ourselves because they have the *Knights watch*

      See what I did there

    71. yesindyref2 says:

      Battleships and cruisers shurely, you must have played that.

      “You sunk my battleship” – Beavis and Butthead (and countless others).

    72. Dr Jim says:

      Funny when you think Hitachi have just cancelled building the nuclear power station on them and they’ve goat nae Leccy and we’ve got tons and tons of the stuff, and water, and food

    73. K1 says:

      Mike says:
      18 January, 2019 at 12:36 am

      And yet you can only manage to put you hand to one single comment. How you managed to find it now that’s a question for the ages. kind of makes me think you knew exactly where to look.


      I’ve read this 3 times now Mike and honestly I think this is paranoia at play. I did know ‘exactly where to look’ Mike as you should have too, as yesindyref2 put the instructions up in this very thread earlier. But I’ve always known where to look before he put the link up Mike, it’s not a ‘question for the ages’.

      You are literally making a complete arse of yourself on here. Give it up. Now.

    74. Thepnr says:

      O/T I want to mention disruption to threads and why it’s bad.

      There are certain posters who post on this site who do not have an Independent Scotland in mind when making their posts. The exact opposite is in fact true.

      They want to keep Scotland shackled to the Union, that simply is their job. Paid or not makes no difference they are disruptive and seek to spread dissent, create arguments and basically cause as much mischief as possible.

      They really are not worth bothering with folks, responding to anyone with that agenda gives them a victory of sorts so please don’t do it.

      There must have been thousands of people visiting Wings for the first time and saw these “discussions” going on and immediately fled never to be back.

      Let’s never lose site of the fact that the main job of Wings and her contributors btl is to educate, get the truth out and inform our fellow Scots. Wings is an extremely valuable resource to the Yes movement and of course the UK government is paying it attention.

      Do not engage is my advise, never. Feel free to write a contrary view to that of the troll but don’t direct that at the troll but at all Wings readers.

      Always remember who your potential audience is, it is the whole of Scotland’s electorate and not just “Wingers” or anyone else.

      We on here need to up our game as well, I’m trying to up mine as to be honest I think I needed to.

      So with the goal in mind always, I’m sure you can too. Ignore them.

      I wrote the above on Wings in March 2017, do we ever learn?

    75. Liz g says:

      Dr Jim @ 1.00am
      Aye yer no wrang…
      The saddest thing is these auld duffers actually seem to be believin what they were sayin…bizarre??
      Ah well I suppose we’ll no see them ( the people ) starve

    76. North chiel says:

      “Petra says @1228 pm “ . Yes looks like Hitachi have seen through the Tory gov privatisation “ con” , whereby the “ con artists” get principally foreign “ investment” as regards the capital expenditure and building of these prohibitally expensive power stations , knowing that the actual construction work will be undertaken by Tory owned UK contractors and subcontractors massively benefiting the treasury via huge amounts of vat, corporation tax, national insurance & income tax . Thereafter , the Chinese & french governments and others like Hitachi will be unable to recoup a penny in revenue as and until the U.K. nuclear safety inspectorate grant them a safety certificate and licence to commence operations . How many years might that take? The Tory government and Tory owned construction companies won’t be too concerned about that particular aspect of “ the deal”.

    77. K1 says:

      No Thpnr, and we probably never will.

      I guess I’ll be included in ‘feeding’ tonight. But you know what, some things are worth attempting to address. I don’t know who is or isn’t a troll, so I approach, sometimes openly the poster in question to find out for myself.

      Others do this too…with other posters, for example I didn’t go near mac, others did but to a fault everyone at some point had an issue wi Rock and it never stopped anyone having a back and forth wi him, even if only to tell him he was a troll. Many who advocate don’t feed the blah blah’s are some of the very same who have fed that one for years?

      I’ve said what you’ve said too on here, ‘don’t feed the…’ contact the Rev etc.

      I don’t do that anymore, I did the contact form and Rock of all ages got a free reign for the next 3 years. Hit and miss approach, I’d rather whoever it is shows themselves up in my exchanges with them and I think for example Mike did that tonight successfully, not because I’m really trying to find out if he’s a troll, but to understand where someone might be coming from?

      Then everyone including me sees the unprompted and unjustified attacks for what they are, that way I’ve at least satisfied my own curiosity. I can’t have it both ways, I can’t go on about everyone ‘not being the moderator’ and then moderate Mike? And I can’t tell people off for doing what I do either.

      I don’t have to bother about Mike anymore after tonight. Just like I, in general, don’t bother about Hyfud and for the most part before he was pre modded, Rocks’s anymore, I tend to scroll on by usually after I’ve had the sparring match and leave well alone. Maybe on a dead thread a bit of back and forth might occur weeks or months later.

      The thing is it’s not up to any of us to moderate who we speak to on here. I’ve given up trying to control Wings, I’m not the moderator. And I’ll make my own mind up about people now.


    78. K1 says:

      There’s a lot of pain right now, and genuine worry, people have different ways of expressing that. We need to let people vent their spiel and if possible reach out to those who are experiencing this is more emotionally expressive ways.

      I have no clue who anyone is on here really, those that I have met were once strangers to me and once met in 3d became human. I’m certain to a fault that there are those that view me as a piece of shit too because of some of my comments in the past and no doubt will continue to view me negatively cause I don’t express myself in ‘acceptable’ ways.

      What can ye dae eh… 😉

    79. Cactus says:


      It’s UK End of Days, Day 4.

      A week is a lang time…

    80. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Thepnr.

      You typed,

      “Do not engage is my advise, never. Feel free to write a contrary view to that of the troll but don’t direct that at the troll but at all Wings readers.”

      That’s what I try to do, when I can summon up the finger energy. If a point is raised, address it – but don’t refer to the poster by name.

      I think that annoys…

    81. Catching up on a lot today:

      So it seems that Fiona bruce was a one hit wonder and the programme has reverted to type tonight with ridiculous audience participation, toeing the ‘no deal’ line.

      Have to say, I’ve heard VERY few Remainer voices on the airwaves over the last few days. Seems the BBC is incapable of allowing alternative, reasonable voices to be aired.

      Cubby and Shinty – you remarked about a communication from Stirling Yes re postal votes. I posted an explanation this afternoon and a link to the video we have prepared but i fear the Rev has retained it as I don’t think it has appeared.

      Basically, Stephen Kerr, Tory, got in with a majority of 148 votes. Analysis showed that we had done really well at the ballot box, but he got in through the postal vote. Conservatives have got the postal vote sussed. (Do they rig it? We can’t prove that)

      We’re suggesting that folks should apply for a postal vote and either send it in or, hang on to it because, sometimes, life events can get in the way and despite the best will in the world, you might have to work a shift, go to a funeral, take that australian holiday that was booked last August; it might be heavy snow, heavy rain, you might sleep in or be ill.

      If you are able to vote in person, you just take the postal ballot form with you and you can still vote on the day. It’s an insurance policy. We only needed 149 extra votes last time so anything that can up the vote will help.


      Item on the BBC website saying that pharmacists are already struggling to get hold of painkillers and anti-depressants in England.
      Financial Times says no replacement trade deals are ready for Brexit deadline
      Hitachi pull out of nuclear build threatening power supplies
      Jaguar losing thousands of jobs
      Housing market outlook the worst for 20 years
      Phillips closing it’s Suffolk factory
      We’ll need a green card to drive in the EU
      UK growth hits 6 month low

      and this is just the stuff we are being told about!
      Just waiting for HS2 to be called off

      I heard someone on the radio the other day saying that nappies and other hygiene products are becoming hard to guarantee.

      If you haven’t already started get out there and buy loo roll.

    82. defo says:

      Not many sleepies now

    83. K1 says:

      And by all means disagree, by all means disagree forcefully – but argue with people’s views, don’t insult them personally. And that includes calling them “trolls” or implying they’re undercover Unionists. We’ll decide if someone’s trolling or not. But in the meantime, if you think they are, ignore them.

      If you know what a “troll” is, then you’ll also know that getting you angry and talking about them, derailing the conversation off the subject, is exactly what they want.

      Email us about suspected trolls if you want. But don’t engage them in debate if you doubt their motives, and DEFINITELY don’t engage in on-thread discussions about whether they’re a troll or not.


      If no one ‘knows’ they are trolls, why the heck is everyone advising others to ignore who they say are ‘trolls’.

      Why does everyone want it both ways: to chuck the ‘troll’ accusation around and at the same time cite Rev’s ‘rules’ as sacrosanct when it suits: ‘…don’t insult them personally. And that includes calling them “trolls” or implying they’re undercover Unionists. We’ll decide if someone’s trolling or not.

      What about this part: If you know what a “troll” is, then you’ll also know that getting you angry and talking about them, derailing the conversation off the subject, is exactly what they want.

      There is as much room taken up in these threads with those ‘getting angry and talking about them’ as there is those who are talking to the poster that they are saying is a troll? Isn’t that as much a part of ‘derailing the conversation off the subject’ as much as those addressing the poster in question?

      And please tell me everyone hasn’t been indulging exactly in this on every thread ‘…and DEFINITELY don’t engage in on-thread discussions about whether they’re a troll or not.’


    84. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 1.14 & K1 @ 1.36 + 1.48
      Ha… # me too
      We’ve all done it and we’ve all tried to snib each other for doing it,in the intrests of Indy and the site.

      I like to think of it as OUR unwritten Constitution.
      No real harm done… Ronnie Anderson will recover from his foray into Question Time (also something we all have to do)and tomorrow is another step closer to Indy..
      Whats not to like about that!
      If it helps
      Can I just say that when I first stumbled into Wings there was a huge row going on…. BUT… It was an intelligent one..So..I stayed to see what I could learn.
      No matter what, we will appeal to someone…and one each is all we need xxxx
      EH…. Peace Always.

    85. K1 says:

      Aye to aw that Liz 🙂

    86. Liz g says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 2.17
      I try and do that too!
      I refer to them in the third person,not always successfully!
      Which is why I sometimes come across as a gibbering idiot.
      Well thats ma excuse and I’m sticking tae it!!

    87. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 2.59
      Well since every time I try thon smiley face things,it finishes up looking like morse code fur a hure in distress!
      I’ll have tae stick tae Xs…

    88. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s not easy, but the answer is that EVERYONE should show each other more respect.

    89. Dr Jim says:

      I’m a rubbish computerer can’t do smileys or anything on it

      I can change the traffic lights with my tablet though and I’m a whiz wae drones, tee hee

    90. Shinty says:

      Meg merrilees, thanks for that.

      I do have a question though – do postal ballots not have to be submitted before the polling date? (In order to get to the count on time)

      For example, say I have my postal vote (in hand) but really prefer to go to the polling station, but I’m late (accident or whatever) miss the polling deadline and I’m left with a postal vote in hand at 10.05pm, too late to mail. (ie local Royal Mail collection 5pm)

      Sorry, not trying to be difficult. Just trying to see how this works as you suggest.


    91. Petra says:

      ‘Ghouls and Nazis: BBC Reporting Scotland’s subliminal propagandising.’


      Another BBC News – depressing start to the day. Rerun of the Glasgow School of Art fire.


      @ Meg merrilees says at 2:35 am …. ”So it seems that Fiona bruce was a one hit wonder and the programme has reverted to type tonight with ridiculous audience participation, toeing the ‘no deal’ line.” Not too long now until we can bin the lot of them.

      Maybe they thought that they could con the Scots with a name, Meg. You know Fiona (good Scottish name) ancestor of Robert the Bruce, lol. And yes the audience predominantly anti-Labour Party and pro-No Deal Brexit. Fiona Bruce even had the audacity to bring up ”Corbyn friend of Hezbollah” to throw Diane Abbott when she tried to talk about Brexit.

    92. Ken500 says:

      Andrew Neil is a liar. Andrew Neil supports proposals which could see his Swedish wife deported. A migrant family. Ditto Corbyn, Hunt, Johnston, Farague, Tomkins, Fraser etc. All migrant families intent on Brexit. Total hypocrites.

      The Tories stopped investment in renewables. They stopped investment in wind, solar and wave. The safest, cleanest and cheaper.

      Cameron has his snout in the trough of public money. The Chinese British consortium. Hinkley Point and HS2. All projects of no value which are cidtong £Billions. HS2 will make journey to the North and Scotland take longer. People will have to change trains. To make journey times throughout Britain equal. There should be investment in the North and Scotland where journeys take much longer (pro rata) because of historical lack of investment. Another line to Manchester will not make much difference, it will just be more expensive and undersubscribed. Subsidised with public money. If the journey times in the North and Scotland were improved. It coiuld rival air travel. There could be less flights which could be guaranteed with the savings from HS2 waste.

      Hinkley Point is the same. A told waste of public money. Westminster cancelled renewable projects which could have been far cheaper and produce more. A Humber Tidal scheme was cancelled as too expensive (£9Billion) Cheaper. There have been successful Tidal schemes in France since the 1960’s – Rance Tidal power station Dinard. Hydro schemes in Scotland are cost affective.

      The Tories just cancelled a Tidal Project in Swansea Cost £1Billion+. These schemes cost far less and produce more than nuclear. The Tories cut investment in solar. Cut investment in wave power. Firms in the North of Scotland are now moving to Canada losing Scotland world leading innovation. The Tories have ruined the Oil & Gas sector. Too high taxes when the price had fallen. The Tories cancelled CCS schemes. In Longannet Fife (coal) and Peterhead (Gas). Scotland could have earned revenues from the whole of Europe. The Tories banned onshore wind turbines in England.

      Scotland is in surplus in fuel and energy but pays more because it is colder despite being nearer the source. If Scotland was Independent it could be earning £Billions from fuel and energy exports instead of giving it away. Tory complete mismanagement of Scotland energy resources have killed people. UK Gov health & safety Laws not being enforced.

      Westminster muck up every time. Thatcher centralised transport through London. Built Tilbury Docks 26 miles. Closed down docks/ports all around Britain. Losing jobs. Thatcher built Canary Wharf. Wasted £Billions on banking. Deregulation caused the banking crash. Wasted all the Oil revenues and kept it secret under the official Secrets Act. The bankers fund the Tory Party.

      Rennie is so sleekit, ignorant and arrogant it is just unbelievable. Total lack of knowledge. An embarrassment. Along with all the rest of the dullards. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion has cost Scotland £Billions which could be better spent. The unionists total,failure and mismanagement.

      The Tories are killing off the elderly who vote for them. Sanctioning and starving people. Austerity costs more. They have cut Education/NHS and welfare funding but are wasting £Billions in Hinkley Point, HS2 and other worthless projects. Brexit is just an utter, damaging mistake. The migration into Europe was caused by U.K./US/France. The illegal wars caused the increased migration. Other (EU) countries have to sort out their mess. Costing £Trns of debt.

      Brown is a compulsive liar troughing on other people’s misery. Most of them should be in jail.

      The US/UK £Trns in debt and the most unequal places in the world. Illegally killing and maiming millions of people.

      People in Scotland can put a stop to it. Vote SNP/SNP vote for Independence. .

    93. Ken500 says:

      Stop arguing about trolls. Giving them more air time. Nonsense.

      Fiona Bruce born in Singapore is a migrant. Her Scottish father worked all over the world for Unilever. Relatives in Nairn/Inverness.

      Brexit proposals could see some families deported.

    94. Ken500 says:

      Fiona Bruce et al earn £Millions lying for the BBC. Millionaires evading tax. How they can keep a straight face. £3,7Billion for that rubbish. Trying to fool the people all of the time. Lying sychophants,

    95. admiral says:

      Petra says:
      18 January, 2019 at 12:28 am
      Andrew Neil – This Week:- ”The Anglesey Nuclear plant suspension could lead to a 25% reduction in electricity. A UK energy crisis”
      Too bad they’ve, Westminster, done everything in their power to scupper Scotland’s renewable energy sector. Shortsighted or what?

      Remember they also charge extortionate amounts for Scottish producers to connect to the grid, whilst heavily subsidising English producers.

      Hell mend them when Scotland is independent and they have to come begging for energy deals to keep the lights on in Merrie England.

    96. Ken500 says:

      Barnett Formula

      Scotland has to pay for HS2, Hickley Point waste. (Pro rata). Then does not have funds to invest in wave innovation R & D which could be sold worldwide.

      Scotland has to pay for Trident waste.Then people in Scotland are less well off because if these costs. Etc, etc. Westminster mismanagement.

      UK policy. Fishermen are throwing back dead (small) fish depleting stocks. Making quotas necessary. Instead if using bigger nets like Norway. Fishing industry could earn more with better methods. Scotland will lose £9Billion because of Brexit. Gain £200,000 from fishing but lose £9Billion.

      The UK will lose £90Billion++ because of Brexit.

      Why are there no accounts of the £39Billion quoted on EU expenditure. A breakdown. With the breakdown of the benefits on the balance sheet. Where does the £39Billion figure come from in isolation.

      Ie CAP payments, trade, nearest piggedt market, shared Defence costs, medical agreements etc, etc.

    97. Shinty says:

      Something to cheer (via Peter Bell’s twitter)

    98. Petra says:

      @ admiral says at 7:56 am …. ”Remember they also charge extortionate amounts for Scottish producers to connect to the grid, whilst heavily subsidising English producers. Hell mend them when Scotland is independent and they have to come begging for energy deals to keep the lights on in Merrie England.”

      Another saving for us admiral. Chickens coming home to roost for them.


      Still on about Phil the Greek this morning (will he and Megan be deported now?). Not a great deal being said about the occupants of the other car, such as a 10 month old baby heard screaming throughout. Some online reports saying that the baby’s arm was broken.

    99. Heart of Galloway says:

      New dawn, new day. Had a shower after watching QT last night yto wash off the grime. It was not a pleasant experience although Kirsty Blackman did us proud in a bear pit of no dealery. The BBC has a pro-Brexit bias and slants vox pops and audiences accordingly. But that’s not the whole story if my recent conversations south of the Bordjer are any yardstick. There is a very nasty anti-European undercurrent gaining strength from Carlisle to Bristol which leads me to believe that if ever a so-called ‘people’s vote’ were to be held, there is ABSOLUTELY every chance that ‘leave’ would win again on a U.K.-wide franchise.

    100. Macart says:


      Best laugh I’ve had this week. 😀

    101. Colin Alexander says:

      RE: POSTAL VOTES. Some elderly people have received a letter asking for confirmation of their signature, as it can change over time.

      It also offers the opportunity to select voting without a signature, if you tick the box.

      Whilst helping those who struggle to write, will it also make it even easier to commit electoral fraud?

      Such is my lack of trust in the state, I have a niggling concern that it’s more to do with making it easier to rig elections / referendums. Especially, indyref2, if it happens.

      Anyone know more about what fraud prevention measures will be in place under this system of postal voting without a signature?

    102. Shinty says:

      “Not a great deal being said about the occupants of the other car, such as a 10 month old baby heard screaming throughout. Some online reports saying that the baby’s arm was broken”

      No worries Petra, MI5 will have that covered and the MSM given their instructions.

      Just imagine had someone like Alex Salmond been driving – all hell would have broken loose.

    103. admiral says:

      @ Petra Still on about Phil the Greek this morning (will he and Megan be deported now?). Not a great deal being said about the occupants of the other car, such as a 10 month old baby heard screaming throughout. Some online reports saying that the baby’s arm was broken.

      Some may see it as karma in action, because Phil was allegedly involved in the plot to kill Diana (copyright, Daily Express).

    104. Robert Peffers says:

      @Mike says: 17 January, 2019 at 11:07 pm:

      ” … Im not disputing the factuality or not of what you post Im pointing out that its meaningless worthless and irrelevant.”

      Unlike you, Mike, I can read and comprehend the English language. That being so I not only read what you comment but comprehend what it actually says. Oh! and by the way I can also comment with correct punctuation and punctuation is often important to the intended meaning. Like everyone else I make mistakes and typos but in the little extract from your full current post, you twice type, “Im”, instead of I’m. As it happens this doesn’t change the meaning but I’m sure you get the drift.

      So let’s just look at the rest of your claptrap in that post.

      ” … You could try emailing the Westminster Parliament and explain to them your articulate definitions of our constitutional rights and sovereignty and we can hope that they read it acknowledge it and insist we take our Independence without delay.”

      You begin by making a claim that you have no way of knowing whether I have, or have not, communicated with the Westminster Parliament. That is, first of all idiotic because the Westminster Parliament cannot read as it is a house of government and not a person.

      That aside you have no knowledge of what interaction I have had, or still have, with either members of parliament or civil servants of either house of Parliament or indeed the Whitehall civil Service.

      Then you become a great deal more ridiculous with this little gem :-

      ” … Or we can face reality and take heed of the fact that they don’t give a fuck about our Sovereignty the Act of Union Democracy legitimacy or legality and prepare ourselves for a nasty ugly encounter with a Fascist state hell bent on imposing their political will and dominance.”

      So what is this reality you comment about?

      You then continue to state exactly what I have always not only shown to be the unreality of how Westminster operates but to accept it as the reality. It isn’t the reality it is the current unreality being imposed upon Scotland.

      Here is an example:-

      The United Kingdom is, in reality, a bipartite union of kingdoms, (you do know what, “bipartite”, means don’t you, Mike?

      That is the reality – what is the unreality is that the United Kingdom is either a country or a union of countries. It is legally a two partner union of kingdoms and that means the result of the union is, in reality, a united kingdom and not a united country.

      Now imagine this, not unknown, situation. A woman is married to a certain man but then she illegally marries another man without legally divorcing her, ‘real’, husband.

      Legally the first marriage is, “real”, (the reality), and the second marriage is nor a, ‘real’, marriage.

      Get the picture now, Mike?

      I’m the one dealing in reality and you the one dealing in unreality and nothing will make it real. Not even if the Westminster Parliament were to admit that it was an illegal setup would it make it real. There are only two things that would make the Westminster Parliament a reality.

      They could treat Scotland as a full and equal partner kingdom in a bipartite union or they could accept that the current union they claim to be the United Kingdom is over and that second option is not what you have claimed is, “the reality”.

      By your past comments you have made it plain that you think Scotland will, “leave the United Kingdom”, but that is not reality.

      The reality is that Westminster is not the actual parliament of either the kingdom or the country of England it only claims it is. That means, “in reality”, Westminster is operating as only the de facto parliament of England not the, “real”, parliament of England. That means, “in reality”, when the Kingdom of Scotland ends the, “unreal”, United Kingdom there is neither a , “real”, continued United Kingdom nor is there, “a real”, parliament of England.

      So there you go – your concept of reality is wrong. You are not very good at this logic thing are you. Mike?

      Thing is you are not alone for roughly half the people of Scotland are just like you and until it is established that the Westminster setup is not the reality of the international, “Treaty of Union”, and is thus negated and Westminster is ended as the fake United Kingdom Parliament, (leaving , both country and kingdom, of England without a legally elected as such parliament, the unreality will continue.

      Now you can join such as Rock on my ignored list as a waste of time and space. Just for the record that is a very short list for I believe everyone has a right to express their views on an open forum – but by the same view everyone also has the right to either engage with them or ignore them. I will not be asking for you to be banned.

    105. wull2 says:

      Do you think they delivered he VOW in 2014.

      Vote YES this time.

    106. Bobp says:

      Ken500 7.17am ” brexit proposals could see some families deported”. Not unless they are really wealthy ken, or have the right establishment connections.

    107. Nana says:

      Have tried posting first four links twice. I don’t know what is wrong as they didn’t contain any banned words, that I can see.

      Tried four more, no luck.

      I will try again later.

    108. galamcennalath says:

      Good Brexit piece …

      ” It is a measure of English Brexiteers’ political acumen that they were initially oblivious to the volatile Irish question and contemptuous of the Scottish one.”

    109. jockmcx says:

      IGNORE,worked well for no side in indy ref,once the realized
      they were getting slaughtered in debates they just did’nt
      bother turning up.

      Wilful ignorance by uk polititions,press or posters makes
      people angry…that works for them too.

      There is no reasonable argument against Scotland being
      independant,only unreasonable ones by crooks.

      Unless they are Scottish in which case i think they are just
      plain daft,…sorry dafties.

    110. Ken500 says:

      Johnston, the migrant, supports migrants being deported. Total hypocrite. Troughing on public money.

    111. Bobp says:

      Re the accident with phil on the A149. Its the roads fault dontcha know, all the talk now is about how campaigners are fighting to have the speed limit reduced from 60 to 50mph.Nothing about whether an old guy in his nineties is physically or visually fit to drive. Move along now nothing else to see here.

    112. Ken500 says:

      Total hypocrite. Farague trying to get re elected to the EU Parliament in May 23rd. EU elections.

      Has he paid back the monies he embezzled yet. £Millions. What a crook.

      Authorities to reduce the speed on the road. A 97 year old caused a road crash on.

    113. galamcennalath says:

      Fintan O’Toole

      ” Brexit is just the vehicle by which a fractured state has come to realise that its politics are no longer fit for purpose “

      I find Fintan usually hits the nail firmly!

      (The graphic of implied ‘Britain’ is offensive, though)

    114. Nana says:

      Tried first four again, not going to risk a hammering from Stu attempting more in case I get banned.

      Anyway the huff post is reporting an election being planned by TM

    115. Shinty says:

      “Nothing about whether an old guy in his nineties is physically or visually fit to drive”

      My first thoughts too – how many 97 yo’s are still driving. Have a 90yo relative (very capable) but her family finally took the keys off her – sad day for her, but it was for her own safety and that of the general public.

    116. Ken500 says:

      Previously an 85 year old caused a crash that could have killed or seriously injured a woman and child. Driving out from a minor to a major road without looking. Going for a paper. 5 mins The 85 year old no longer drives. Walks much healthier and safer.

      Privileged, migrant family gets away with murder. Illegal wars etc. Lying hypocrites. Wastes £Billions of public money interfering.

      The GSA Board of Governors should resign immediately. Some arty, farties haven’t got a clue. Frauds.

    117. Ken500 says:

      ‘The Tories will have an election they can lose to get out of their mess’. That always happens at Westminster. The unionists leaves their mess.

    118. mike cassidy says:


      The Rev’s troll detector has gone rogue!

    119. Fairliered says:

      Regarding postal votes, Mrs Fairliered and I have just renewed ours. Mine is handy because it means that I can work outside a polling station that is not my local one.
      I have a serious concern about postal, or other, votes by people are “incapax” i.e. no longer have mental capacity. They need a power of attorney to deal with their financial affairs, but not to vote. How many just put their cross in the box that the local activist, usually tory, tells them to? I know from family experience that in some sheltered accommodation the wardens let labour and tory canvassers and leafleters in, but not those from the SNP.
      Should there be a rule that those that are incapax need to have their postal vote signed by their power of attorney?

    120. Ken500 says:

      The migrant families will be subject to the same proposed Laws. Lose your job. The spouse does not earn £30K out they go.

    121. Ken500 says:

      The wardens should be reported to the authorities. They could lose their jobs. Make a complaint.

    122. Surely no family would allow a 97 year old relative to get behind the wheel of a powerful Range Rover; it could have been fatal.
      Better luck next time, Treeza.
      I love the uniform Dead Tree Scrolls reporting of the crash. Some hapless couple minding their own business ‘collided’ with the Chooka Embra as he drove out of a side street?
      Will he get done for dangerous/reckless driving.
      Eye test? Drink/Drugs test?
      Were the offenders who ‘collided’ with the Greek God known Republicans?
      A job for Scoop Hutcheon, Clegg The Ferret. or Gordon the Gopher.
      It’s in ‘the Public Interest’ surely?

    123. Dorothy Devine says:

      Where did they get the idea of 30,000 quid in the first place? There must be so many folk in the UK who would LOVE to earn 30,000 but are unlikely to reach those dizzy heights.

      What is the average wage in the UK?
      Perhaps better to use the mean wage in the UK.

      P.S Anybody know when the new circulation figures come out for our incredible press?

    124. Clootie says:

      Prince Chookie plan already in full swing. Speed limit of road dropped. His defence lawyer will now claim the traffic was moving to fast for safety…..what am I talking about!……..there will be no defence lawyer! It will all be quietly managed off the radar.

    125. hackalumpoff says:

      Anent QT

      “We need David Davis as our PM. You know what we need? Remember Oliver Cromwell. Remember Enoch Powell. Hello! We’re not going away.”

      and I can’t stand Diane Abbott but the others are now seeing the BBC as we do.

    126. Socrates MacSporran says:

      You really have to laugh at the thought processes – such as they are – of some of the leading Brexiteers.

      Boris Johnson had a Turkish grand-father; he was himself born in New York. Nigel Farage is separated from his second wife, a German lady. His first wife was Irish. Yet both are firmly in the anti-immigration camp. They are not alone among the ranks of the Brexiteers in appearing to have personal affiliations, at odds with their political stance.

      But worse, consider our Head of State.

      This lady is married to a Greek-born immigrant of Danish-German stock. Her grand-mother, great-grand-mother, and great-great-grand-father were all immigrants. Two of her grand-sons are married to immigrants.

      The British (English) Establishment does not do irony or self-awareness.

    127. Fionan says:

      cynicalHighlander says:
      17 January, 2019 at 11:37 pm
      17 January, 2019 at 11:12 pm

      Try googling ‘All Kinds of Everything’ by Dana, winning song 1970 Eurovision song contest. I’m not a fan of that fixed contest, but I do remember that very pretty Irish lass with a lovely voice.

      If she sang ‘Those were the days’ it would have been a cover. I remember Hopkins as well. We had not long got electricity in our west coast area, and our first tv. The single track roads wer still not tarmacd, and the telephone worked by a manual operator wh listened in on everyones hone conversations and spread the goss around the district.

    128. hackalumpoff says:

      Another good one on QT/BBC, read the comments.

    129. Mike says:


      The reason I know you haven’t already written to the Westminster Parliament to explain the reality of the constitution and remind them of our Sovereignty is the fact that they haven’t insisted on agreeing to our Independence.

      Its obvious that they have forgotten and are only waiting for enlightenment and a gentle reminder in order to begin the process leading to our amiable departure from the treaty of union and who better than to articulate it than you?

      So get on with it why the delay? We continue to suffer within this disunion of unequals because you haven’t explained the constitutional niceties to the Westminster establishment and authority yet.
      Or God forbid you already have and “GASP” they didn’t listen?
      No for the love of God don’t tell me you did and they didn’t listen?
      Whatever will become of the children will nobody think of the children!

      Finger to lips and Wibble wibble wibble.

    130. Breeks says:

      Plain question…

      Is today May’s third day deadline for producing a Plan B alternative to her dead and buried Plan A?

    131. Mike says:


      Its the 659th day 23hours and 13 minutes of a Marathon dance where the UK Government and opposition waltz around Parliament waiting patiently for the clock to run down to the default no deal Brexit.
      They only have to wait 70 days 11 hours and 45 minutes.

    132. Liam says:

      Breeks says:
      18 January, 2019 at 11:06 am

      Plain question…

      Is today May’s third day deadline for producing a Plan B alternative to her dead and buried Plan A?

      I think the motion said three sitting days – ie Monday.

    133. Ken500 says:

      Pensioners pay for their grandchildren. They can’t take it with them.

      Johnstone the migrant, wants to chuck out other migrants. Having caused more migration in the world with the illegal wars, Then running away from the responsibilities. A lying, hypocritical coward. A crook. Embezzing and wasting £Billions of public money. Getting away with murder. The Westminster unionists. Total, lying, wasting, hypocrites who have ruined the world economy with their ignorance, arrogant, conceit and greed. A danger to society. The psycho bastards. Lying their pockets on other people’s misery. A total disgrace.

    134. Breeks says:

      Liam says:
      18 January, 2019 at 11:20 am

      I think the motion said three sitting days – ie Monday.

      Thanks Liam. Thought it was a bit quiet…

    135. Ghillie says:

      Mike, why are you so nasty?

    136. When were the British nationalists ever logical or rational about immigrants, whether they be Brexiteers
      or not who are married to an immigrant?

      They have always had this attitude towards immigrants, towards Black and Irish people when renting out rooms
      With posters on their windows no blacks, no Irish etc.

      But then a similar attitude can be seen in some of those who have immigrated here to Scotland, with their opposition to Scottish independence.

      Mohammad Sarwar is a prime example,strange how he was so proud to proclaim his Britishness, but given an opportunity when a governorship arose in Pakistan he was off, relinquishing her British citizenship.

      Then there’s his son Anas Sarwar who is also opposed to Scottish independence.

      So why doesn’t he when he visits Pakistan tell the people of that country they made a mistake by gaining their Independence and that they should seek to be governed once again from new Delhi in India.

      And just see what the reaction would be from the people of Pakistan to that suggestion.

    137. galamcennalath says:

      Media full of chat in the last hour about Whitehall having been put on alert to expect a snap GE.

      Surprises me that May to take that step, but something has to happen.

    138. Ken500 says:

      The delay is caused by Westminster unionists. Their absolutely mismanagement hss caused any delay. It is not advantageous to have an Indy Ref during a GE campsign, during an EU election, a Holyrood election or council elections. That is why the timing has to be right. Management.

      In the meantime, the unionists can be voted out in Scotland in the next 2+ years. EU election, GE, council elections and Holyrood election, Giving more support for an IndyRef. Support is increasing all the time. The unionists are tanking completely. A shambles. A total and utter mess.

    139. Ken500 says:

      The unionists always do that call a GE they will lose to get out of their mess. Who wants the poison chalice?

    140. Liam says:

      galamcennalath says:
      18 January, 2019 at 11:29 am

      Media full of chat in the last hour about Whitehall having been put on alert to expect a snap GE.

      I suspect some civil servants have found something they CAN do to justify their time. Organizing a GE is something they know how to deal with.

      Staring blankly at the big elephant in the room while waiting for someone to work out what what to do with it must get boring.

    141. Ken500 says:

      Millionaire, migrant Fiona Bruce will have to watch her step if Labour increase support elsewhere. Insulting Diane Abbott before QT. Not a good impartial look. BBC. Disgraceful bias.

    142. Macart says:


      Yep. Clocked those rumours. 😉

    143. starlaw says:

      If Tories call a GE to get out of the mess they are in they will have to rig it in order to lose.

    144. Thepnr says:


      Robert Peston in an article for ITV today also mentions the possibility of a General Election, though he describes it as pointless unless both Labour and the Tories come clean about what their actual positions are over Brexit.

      Will they come clean though in their manifestos if there is a GE?

    145. hackalumpoff says:

      SCOTTISH Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie is under fire after he indicated a desire for his party to return to the “calm period” of coalition with the Tories.

    146. Breeks says:

      GE changes nothing.

      Probably won’t even change the government.

    147. galamcennalath says:

      Liam says:

      the big elephant in the room

      The easy and sensible option is to ‘shoot’ the elephant.

      A quick Act of Parliament saying is all else fails, then A50 must be revoked.

    148. TheItalianJob says:

      Ken500 is on fire. Keep up your points.

      He ignores the trolls as I do. Scroll right past them.

      Robert Peffers – I read all your posts and I can find from your replies to the trolls who to scroll past.

      Thanks guys.

    149. K1 says:

      GE would get those Scottish Tory wanker MPs out. But yes little else would change, though rather suspect they’d treat result as referendum on May’s deal and England would vote for them in droves as they don’t want ‘marxist’ Corbyn as PM.

    150. TheItalianJob says:

      @Thepnr at 11.48.

      Thanks for the link to the Guardian article.

      Yes it will be interesting if we do have a snap GE to see if both leaders of the Tories and Labour show their true hands.

      Won’t happen of course as both May and Corbyn are little low weasels and are not to be trusted.

      Not sure what calling a GE at this time is all about. Oh wait it’s to thwart a potential other referendum.

    151. Petra says:

      Still no links Nana? I wonder what’s going on? Fair missing them. Big T agreeing to a GE? Under 18 year olds and EU Nationals won’t get a vote. Nicola should NOT use this as a route to Independence, imo.


      At Colin at 8:44am ……..”RE: POSTAL VOTES. Some elderly people have received a letter asking for confirmation of their signature, as it can change over time. It also offers the opportunity to select voting without a signature, if you tick the box.”

      Well that’s a worry. I reckon that if the elderly person has problems writing then a close relative (or someone with POA) should be dealing with this, but of course not getting involved if the elderly person is no longer cognitively able to make a decision. Inspectors in Scotland should think of paying the Care Homes, etc, a wee visit to put the frighteners up the Care Home managers / owners in advance of a GE / IndyRef2. And of course the ScotGov should think of sending out an advisory leaflet.


      Well it looks as though Fiona Bruce has got off to a real bad start. Not surprising as the ”chosen one” would no doubt have to meet the BBC’s biased criteria. Dumblebum was doing a far better ”job” of it by not giving so much away with his body language and facial expressions. I reckon that if Diane Abbott hadn’t been on QT last night Kirsty Blackman would have been the target due to them selecting the greatest threat at any given moment in time. If a GE is in the offing then the order would be, ”get the boot into Abbott.”

      I see that some are commenting (hackalumpoff link – 10:45am) that Labour, Plaid, SNP & Greens should now blacklist the show and let the Tories get on with talking to themselves. Great idea.


      Will Phil the Greek be charged with, at the very least, careless driving? A wee dilemma for them: the powers that be? Another wee cover-up by the establishment – Police, MSM and MI5, right enough Shinty?

    152. Socrates MacSporran says:


      I trust your zealous adherence to the Establishment line is suitably rewarded by your 77 Brigade or GCHQ handlers.

      In response to your pointless trolling of that fine gentleman Auld Boab Peffers, I would suggest.

      Whitehall and Westminster is well aware, the UK is a bipartite Union of two equal, sovereign kingdoms. They are also aware that in one of these kingdoms – Scotland, the people are sovereign; while in the other – England, sovereignty is in the possession of the monarch, who has handed that sovereignty to a Parliament of England which has not sat since 1707.

      Despite this, the Whitehall/Westminster Establishment acts as if that English Parliament is still running things, ignores as far as possible the realities of the 1707 Act of Union and takes the view from that Act: “We have captured Scotland and must now hold her fast.”

      Since 1707, they have been helped in this endeavour by generations of, what we might best call: “Proud Scots But,” whose own nests are best feathered by doing England’s bidding.

      Now, however, there has arisen a generation of Scottish politicians who no longer play by these rules – and England is at a loss what to do about it.

      In which case, they have reverted to England’s default position of waiving the rules and doing what they want anyway.

      Only this time, I am convinced – that position will not hold. Independence – it’s comin’ yet fur awe that.

    153. Macart says:


      Ayup! It would almost certainly offer folk an opportunity to get shot of those useless articles. And no, not much would change in terms of Westminster’s politics.

      Mind you… It would force both Conservative and Labour parties to manifesto their position on Brexit. It would also allow the electorate of N.I. the chance to pass judgement on the actions of their current representation over Brexit.

      Also? It might give the Scottish government the chance to run a campaign on either:

      a. A majority vote pledging a referendum without caveat
      b. As an outright plebiscite on independence

      Worth a thought. 😉

    154. Petra says:

      @ Breeks says at 11:49 am …. ”GE changes nothing. Probably won’t even change the government.”

      You’re probably right, Breeks. I don’t see Labour winning and has anyone actually thought of asking Corbyn how he’s going to deal with the stumbling block, the Irish backstop, in detail?

      They’ll need an extension of A50, and approval from the EU, to do this and then what? Another Tory leader? Back to Big T’s deal? If this is what they are planning to do, it’ll be to scupper EURef2 where Remain could have won.

      Back to Big T’s no CU and SM deal followed by Nicola calling for IndyRef2.

    155. TheItalianJob says:

      @Mcart & Petra

      Like your posts and always rational and informative.

      Keep them coming.

      We are all one together in what we wish to achieve.

      Independence for Scotland and it’s people (excluding the proudScotsBut).

    156. Ken500 says:

      Millionaire migrant Johnstone does not want to pay UK taxes. Tax evades, Embezzles £Millions of public money and wastes £Billions of public money. A lifelong trougher. A total wasteful hypocrite. They have no shame.

      Fraser the migrant family. Insults other migrants. What a cheek.

    157. Breeks –
      My understanding is that the three day obligation was in Hilary Benn’s amendment which he pulled.

      So far as I remember, T May, after the deal was voted down said that if the Corbyn called a VONC in the Gov, she would allow it to be debated on Thursday – which she did .
      Then subsequently she said she would have meetings with senior politicians and report back to the House on Monday???

    158. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says:

      It would force both Conservative and Labour parties to manifesto their position on Brexit.

      The one who did would win. FPTP means you win while well sort of 50%. A clear position would rally enough voters close to that position to take most seats.

      However, nae chance!

      Labour are out of touch with their base and would need to go ‘cancel’ or ‘ultra soft’. Corbyn doesn’t seem to want that.

      Tories could go ‘ultra hard’ and get their core plus all the English nationalists. But most of the existing MPs wouldn’t want that.

      Also, May must know a GE is likely to roll back the number of BritNat MPs in Scotland.

      We will soon find out.

    159. crazycat says:

      @ Shinty at 5.28

      Postal votes have to arrive by 10pm on the day of the election. I understood that they could be taken to a polling station if you decide to vote in person (though you’d have to follow the normal postal voting procedure and hand in the envelope; you would not be given another ballot paper), but when I checked the Electoral Commission guidelines (, they say:

      You can hand your postal ballot in at your local council on the day if you’re not able to send it back by post in advance

      That doesn’t explicitly rule out taking it to a polling station, though.

      They also say:

      1. When you get your postal voting papers
      Put them somewhere safe
      Don’t let anyone else handle them
      Make sure they are not left where someone else can pick them up

      2. When you want to vote
      Complete your ballot paper in secret, on your own
      Don’t let anyone else vote for you
      Don’t let anyone else see your vote
      Don’t give the ballot paper to anyone else
      Put the ballot paper in the envelope and seal it up yourself
      Complete and sign the postal voting statement
      Put the postal voting statement and the envelope containing your ballot paper into the larger supplied envelope and seal it.

      3. When you return your postal vote
      Take it to the post box yourself, if you can
      If you can’t do that, either give it to somebody you know and trust to post it for you, or ring your local elections team, to ask if they can collect it from you
      Don’t hand it to a candidate or party worker unless no other way is practical
      Don’t leave it where someone else can pick it up

      Remember that this is your vote – so keep it for yourself!
      If anyone tries to help you against your will, or force you to give them your postal vote, you should contact the police.

      (my bold)

      [continued in next post to avoid making it too long]

    160. Lenny Hartley says:

      Joanna Cheery on twitter responding to Murdo Fraser claiming it was a dodgy poll ooft!

      Perhaps if Murdo Fraser in his long political career had ever managed to win a seat and had constituents with whom to speak & correspond he would appreciate that this poll is representative of public opinion #Brexit #indyref2

    161. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Why don’t you simply stand in front of a mirror and express yourself to the only forum you should expect agreement from you withering fucking imbecile.”

      There’s no call for this level of frequent abuse of other posters. Consider this your first and only warning.

    162. John Thomson says:

      Hi all come here everyday hope you don’t mind but I believe a GE would be good for a number of reasons.

      1. Leave won by less than honest means which brought a lot of no voters out possibly for first time, I think majority of them would change to remain.

      2. What we have with current government is not in anyone’s interest leave or remain.

      3. Just read article regarding elderly couple being deported after 41 years in scotland which makes my blood boil.

      4. GE makes sense and only way to remove current gov otherwise we are looking at a number of years where economy tanks and the potential for civil unrest raises its head

      I don’t know where to turn anymore all I know is that we need to control our own destiny.

    163. manandboy says:

      galamcennalath says:

      Fintan O’Toole
      ” Brexit is just the vehicle by which a fractured state has come to realise that its politics are no longer fit for purpose “

      This article may turn out to be influential in shaping the collective understanding of the ongoing seismic shift we call Brexit in the UK’s political and constitutional arrangements. And while Brexit is unarguably a major shock throughout the UK, it has perhaps been most disruptive in England. It is their show after all.

      However, it is the spontaneous political awakening in Scotland by massive numbers of a sleepy and disengaged electorate, producing the Yes Movement, which caused the first major fissure in the system. The rest is history, as they say, and still being written, day by day.

      As for Fintan’s belief in ” Brexit is just the vehicle by which a fractured state has come to realise that its politics are no longer fit for purpose “, this may be true in many parts of the UK, but I suspect you will not find much agreement with this among Westminster’s dominant Unionist parties, Labour and Conservative, and in the Establishment.
      We shall see.

      It’s just a thought, no more, but in the process of sinking, the Titanic broke in two before it slid beneath the waves.

      Hail Caesar!

    164. Colin Alexander says:

      Following on from the previous announcements, the FM’s latest announcement has confirmed that there will be another announcement about indyref2 very soon.

      But there is no truth in the rumour that the SNP membership are now asking for the SNP anthem, Scots Wha Hae to be replaced with the song:

      Announcements, announcements, announcements.
      A horrible way to die, a horrible way to die,
      A horrible way to start the day,
      A horrible way to die.

      Announcements, announcements, announcements.
      What a terrible way to die,
      What a terrible way to die,
      What a terrible death, to be talked to death.
      What a terrible way to die.

      Announcements, announcements, announcements.

      We sold our cow, we sold our cow
      we have no need for your bull now.

      Have you ever seen a windbag, well here’s one now.

      Announcements, Announcements, Announcements.

    165. Shinty, – you make a good point.
      However, my understanding is that if you opt for a postal vote you don’t get a polling card. If you find you are free to vote manually (or womanually?) on the day of the ballot, you can hang on and take your unused postal vote with you as your polling card and cast a traditional vote.

      Unfortunately the video would have explained it better than me but it hasn’t been posted. you could try a you tube search under Yes Stirling and the if you were to include something about ‘going postal’ or did you vote then you might get a result

    166. Macart says:


      It’s a pickle for them. 😀

      Both parties under such a hypothetical as snap GE would have to confront their own members and parliamentarians as a first off. Just in order to come up with a manifesto pledge. Ditto the DUP.

      That’d be bound to leave a mark.

      No. I don’t think they want any kind of ballot either. And I’d reckon they’re both very much aware that waiting in the wings are the electorates of Scotland and Northern Ireland. Safe to say neither May nor Corbyn would like to face the music from either body politic about now.

      How and ever, it’s a never say never kind of world. Both might just reckon it’s the only way to delay brexit and break a deadlock. (shrugs)

      Over to them. 😎

    167. Nana says:

      Terrific thread

      Trip down memory lane, in no particular order…

      Remember during Indyref the rUK loved us that much that they would only campaign for No if they were getting paid for it? They had to bus astroturf activists

      This is probably the biggest election expenses scandal never reported
      Link to story within the tweet

      Corporate Europe Faces ‘Unbearable’ Uncertainty Over U.K. Exit

    168. Hamish100 says:

      Rory Stewart Tory Government Minister – dyed hair
      Diane Abbot- Labour
      Kirsty Blackman- SNP
      Anand Menon, Academic
      Isabel Oakeshott, Brexiter -infamous book on David Cameron- nice wee welcome from Bruce. Pals?
      Invited to talk / butted in —- Interrupted/comments/ sarcasm
      RS 11 4
      DA 8 16
      KB 7 8
      AM 7 2
      IO 8 2
      Oakeshott- interrupted other speakers particularly Diane Abbot then complained of being interrupted. Allowed to ask questions of others. Why?
      Bruce encourage the brexiters in the audience. She allowed Stewart to interrupt also.

      Fiona Bruce and BBC QT are biased.

      ps couldn’t be bothered timing but in general the tory got to speak more and for longer.

    169. manandboy says:

      A postal vote in Indyref2, similar to the one in Indy2014, will leave the Scottish Government open to accusations of either naivety or incompetence.
      It would be like bringing extra bullets for your firing squad, in case they miss you the first time.

    170. Nana says:

      Thanks @EamonnONeill on @BBCJohnBeattie for highlighting the appalling treatment of @IanBlackfordMP by the TV networks yesterday. In a normal country our TV news would lead on this, then again normal, sovereign nations are never confronted with such humiliating treatment.

    171. Ghillie says:

      Aw Socrates MacSporan @ 12.10 pm

      Very very well said and so clear =)

      Aye, it’s coming yet for all that 🙂

    172. Shinty – to be eligible to vote, you have to be inside the ballot station by 10.00pm. If you are still queuing up outside you will not be admitted. Once inside you are allowed to vote. but a ballot card or unused postal vote or proxy vote not registered inside the ballot station by 10.00 pm will not be counted. Ideally a postal vote is cast a few days before the actual Election day.

      Sorry if I’m repeating myself but:

      We are in a very marginal seat where very vote will count. We did well in the actual ballot but lost heavily in the postal vote.

      I think Yes Stirling are working on the basis that some people may not know till very shortly before the actual day whether they will be free to go and vote and a few could miss out as a result if they had to work away from home unexpectedly.
      If you make a point of opting for a postal vote, you are then eliminating some of that uncertainty by ‘taking back control’ of the timing of casting your vote. Then it’s up to you how you register your vote.

      Personally I prefer to make the mark on the card and am highly suspicious of the postal vote system but the video helps to explain their reasoning.

    173. crazycat says:

      Re: care home residents, power of attorney, and eligibility to vote

      The Electoral Commisssion has this pdf –
      – which is guidance for Electoral Registration Officers.

      All of it is quite interesting; I’ll just pick out a few sections.

      Everybody who is eligible should be registered irrespective of any illness or disability they may have
      – The ERO does not have the expertise to determine whether a person has mental capacity or not.
      – The fact that a person has an incapacity does not mean that they should be regarded as incapable in relation to all matters.
      Only the applicant can make the required declaration as part of an application for registration.

      1.9 There is nothing in legislation to stop a person from assisting another to complete an application – whether online or in writing. Legislation does not address in any specific way whether or how someone can be assisted.

      1.10 However, the applicant must be the one to confirm that the details provided on the application are true, i.e. they must be the one making the declaration.

      1.11 For example, if an elector has a physical disability that means they cannot write or type, a person can assist them by doing the typing on their behalf, so long as the elector is present and can communicate that the information provided on the application is true. In the case of a paper application form, the applicant should sign the form, or make their usual mark, themselves; however, where they are unable to do so, the ERO can accept a declaration made in some other way (for example, by telephone or in person) as long as they are satisfied that the declaration is being made by the applicant and is genuine and true.

      1.12 Domiciliary and care home staff may be asked to assist those under their care to make registration applications. You should consider sending guidance and/or making visits to ensure that domiciliary and care home staff are aware that although they may provide help, the declaration must be made by the elector.

      1.14 The Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000 sets out the matters in relation to which a power of attorney can be granted in Scotland. An attorney can be appointed over a person’s property, financial affairs or personal welfare. None of these include registering to vote, or voting. This means that in Scotland, where a person has given another person power of attorney, the attorney cannot make an application to register on behalf of the person.

      1.19 EROs also have discretion to cancel a requirement to register if they consider it appropriate to do so. Paragraph 3.30 of Part 4: “Maintaining the register throughout the year” states: ‘For example, you may consider it appropriate to cancel the requirement notice if a person is ill and, as a result, will be unable to make a declaration of truth for the foreseeable future.’ Again, the ERO would need to be satisfied that the person lacked the required capacity to make the declaration of truth before deciding to cancel a requirement to register for this reason. A decision would need to be made on a case-by-case basis.

      (Again, my bold)

      They conclude with a number of case studies, making it clear that there are circumstances in which an individual is incapable of making the required declaration of truth and therefore cannot register, or be penalized for failing to do so.

      What I haven’t found (yet) is information about someone who has successfully registered but later becomes incapable of casting a vote.

    174. sassenach says:

      Socrates MacSporran @12-10

      Well said, it’s certainly the first time in my life that our SNP Holyrood politicians are becoming nationally recognisable and acceptable as sensible (except on the BBC of course!!).

      As you say, Indy is on it’s way, and I still think Nicola is playing a blinder!

    175. Nana says:

      After resetting my computer and reloading all the links, I think I found the gremlin. A link to Nicola’s article in the Scotsman, which I had archived. I double checked by archiving once more and tried to post with no success.

      Hope Rev Stu will forgive this morning’s double posting. My fingers are fragile Rev!

    176. Lenny Hartley says:

      Looks like the SNP Civil War is having an effect (not)

    177. I have just read that Vince Cable has stated that the Lib Dems will not support any future VONC in T May or her government. In other words, the Lib Dems have now agreed to support the Tories. Wonder what Willie Rennie thinks about that?

      I have a cousin who is a lib-dem Councillor and occasionally when she visits, things can be a little bit strained as we have different political views.
      Recently we have been on the same side re the Brexit mess, No deal, etc… however, on a recent visit, she expressed concern – in fact was almost accusatory, that for some reason ( forgotten now) the SNP would do a deal with the Tories.

      I was really taken aback and emphatically stated that she should really not worry about that as there was no chance (currently) that the SNP would ever do a deal with any tory…
      ha ha ha.

      So now we find her Imperial Master in London has just agreed a deal with the Tories at the very time we need them to be resolute and stand against them.

    178. Shinty says:

      Meg merrilees – thanks again.

      But surely, you won’t be on the list at the polling station if you have originally opted for postal vote?

      Anyhow, as an aside, I checked the turnout for GE 2001 – 2017


      2001 – 67.7% (LAB)
      2005 – 67.7% (LAB)
      2010 – 70.8% (LAB)
      2015 – 77.5% (SNP)
      2017 – 74.3% (CON)

      Don’t know what percentage on the above was postal.

      (Stirling indyref 2014 was 90%, the highest of any constituency)

      Anyhow, sorry I won’t go postal until I can be absolutely assured it can’t be rigged. (particularly for indyref2)

    179. Wee Alex says:

      Postal is perfectly safe. I get angry when postal voting is dismissed o t of hand by people who should know better

      Labour has used it to great advantage in the past 30 years, the Tories now use and it got them seats they should never have won.

      Stop listening to the soothsayers. If there is a y risk of you not being able to voting on the day, register and use your postal vote.

    180. Liam says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      18 January, 2019 at 12:43 pm

      Breeks –
      My understanding is that the three day obligation was in Hilary Benn’s amendment which he pulled.

      The Three Day thing came about with Dominic Grieve’s amendment,passed by MPs by 308 votes to 297, which requires Theresa May to set out within three sitting days what she’ll do next if the meaningful vote didn’t pass. which is didn’t. Nothing to do with Hilary Benn.

    181. Ken500 says:

      Nana you are fine. In fact quite brilliant, for all you do. A marvel. Thanks a Billion

      Thanks a billion Rev Stu. Thank goodness for the internet.

    182. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 17 January, 2019 at 11:06 pm:

      ” … Bye bye Kuzntesov and all its aircraft.”

      Would that be before or after the weaponry on the Kuzntesov and its aircraft had destroyed every military, and probably many civilian targets in the UK, yesindyref2

      Not that it would have mattered. If before the UK would be a rogue state who attacked a peaceful ship not attacking the UK.

      If after – the UK bases in Scotland would have already been taken out – along with much of the rest of the UK and probably the Astute class sub, being closest, would have been first.

    183. Nana says:

      Thank you Ken500

      By the way a good number of links which I had saved have been posted above by several alert Wingers, perhaps I can slip away quietly now as they are doing a great job linking 🙂

      Shocked diplomats suggest EU would extend Brexit deadline

    184. Legerwood says:


      CH4 news last night had an item about food poverty and its affect on children. There was an interview with two teenagers. It is very much worth watching.

    185. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Meg merrilees @ 13:25

      I have just read that Vince Cable has stated that the Lib Dems will not support any future VONC

      This is not really about the Tories, Meg, but about Labour. As I mentioned in previous postings, Labour were intending to set up a series of VONCs in the vain hope that it might eventually wear down some of the Tories, but whose far more likely effect would simply be to help May run down the clock to E-Day.

      Whatever their other sins, the LibDems want to get Labour to give up hoping they’ll get a GE (which they won’t anyway), and force them to get behind a “People’s Vote” instead.

      The net consequence may be stalemate, but a UKGE would solve nothing anyway, and get in the way of an IR2 besides. Just get a PV out of the way as well, and we’re good to go!

    186. wull2 says:

      Do you think it is also the Scottish pound.

      Vote YES this time.

    187. Ken500 says:

      It will be a GE. Another EU Ref or both. Then another IndyRef. Support increasing. The unionists can be voted out. GE, EU Ref, EU elections, Holyrood, council elections IndyRef within the next 2+ years.

      Farague (migrant family) intends standing in the EU elections 23 May. After troughing off the EU for years. Trying to destroy it. Has he paid back the £Millions he has embezzled? Banks his mate is being investigated by the Police. A crooked liar.

    188. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ at 14:06,
      Meg merrilees @ 13:25,

      While it would certainly be very satisfying to have a new UKGE and thereby likely jettison a large number of recently-acquired Blue and Red Tory dross in Scotland, in the bigger picture WM is merely a distraction for us, just as it was back in 2017.

      Clear the decks of all such potential distractions, and we’re ready for action.

    189. galamcennalath says:

      Apparently the was a QT cheer for ‘no deal’.

      There is a school of thought which proposes large sections of the population are confusing no deal with no Brexit!

      Boy, are they in for a shock!

    190. Thanks Liam – not able to follow it all as often as I would like. Appreciate the clarification.
      Shinty – think this notion of getting a postal vote is probably getting too much attention. We’re only suggesting it in our Constituency because we know lost out through the postal vote and we can’t afford to lose ANY votes next time round for whatever ballot. Hence the idea of pushing the postal vote.
      RJS I never said it was about the Tories. I’m merely highlighting that the Lib Dems have now crumbled and will most probably abstain on anything other than a second EU ref.

      Corbyn is out on a limb with his GE and is single handedly taking over control of steering the ship onto the rocks aided and abetted by the hard-line Brexiteers for whom no deal is Heaven.
      Of course, No Deal or T May’s Deal is perfect for us so long as we win and ‘they’ will use every trick they can imagine to prevent us winning.

      A second EU ref and an extension to Art. 50 does not help our cause nor does it help having the Lib Dems refuse to play in the ‘other team’ though they would never support an indy ref anyway.

      Corbyn wants his GE on April 1st – very fitting – so he wants to run the clock down for other reasons from Theresa.

    191. wull2 says:

      This is the last time I will post this, the first time was about 2 Years ago. My prediction.

      In the end there will be a GE, Labour will win, and it will go down in history that it was Labour that took the UK out of the EU and lost Scotland.

    192. crazycat says:

      @ Shinty

      The polling place clerks have a copy of the electoral roll, on which postal voters are identified, so their names are still there but it is clear that they are not eligible to vote in person.

      They mark the register when the ballot paper has been issued.

      Proxy voters are not, I think, marked, so if you arrive before your proxy you can just vote as normal.

    193. Hamish100 says:

      QT audience last night was quite clearly a set up. Even so called Labour supporter positioned at the front so he could put issues about Corbyn. Bruce encouraged the issue. Mentioning Hezbollah for example.

      Remember a few years ago the English Nurse set up during an Edinburgh broadcast and referendum bias. Its the same modus-operandi.

    194. Dr Jim says:

      My wee twin granddaughters will be 16 next week and they’re both SNP members

      We’re going forth and multiplying our vote

    195. defo says:

      Ghillie says:

      “Mike, why are you so nasty?”

      I’m guessing at toileting troubles as a toddler, persisting.

    196. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      wull2 @ 14:46,

      1. Because of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, Theresa May is secure until E-Day and well beyond. Why would she or her party voluntarily give that up, especially if you’re right about Labour winning? Once burnt (in 2017), twice shy, as they say.

      2. Labour are by no means certain of winning anyway. It’s roughly 50-50 at the moment as best we can judge, but if Corbyn is exposed to the rigours of a campaign, how is that likely to go? Better than Miliband, you reckon? =grin=

      Anyway, suppose we win back most of the SNP MPs lost in 2017, what difference does that make? If at all possible, they will be ignored just as much as before. Even if Labour somehow manage to limp slightly ahead despite the odds, do we really want a repeat of 1979?

      Which is why it’s hard to understand any indy supporter being that keen on the distraction.

    197. Legerwood says:

      Another UK General Election would be a complete waste of time.

      The choice for the electorate, in England anyway, would be ‘his deal’ or ‘her deal’. Neither offers away out of the Brexit morass so what would be the point.

      Although a UKGE in Scotland we would have more choice we still end up with what England decides.

      So Independence it is then.

    198. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      Jings Robert, look up the spec of the Kuznetsov, and consider that its role is to carry aircraft and provide defence for itself with the likes of CIWS, NOT to itself launch surface missiles. It’s total complement is about 30 aircraft, fixed and rotating wing, and only 18 of them are offensive. That’s 6 air superiority aircracft against 36 at Lossie, same again at Conginsby, plus land-based air defence.

      To use your words, you’re talking pish 🙂

    199. TheItalianJob says:

      @Robert J Sutherland

      Agree with your previous two posts on what benefit is a GE to the SNP, the Scottish people and the Independence cause i.e. none whatsoever.

      We need to get through this next phase of the Brexit omnishambles and get ready for what really matters to us Indyref2.

      Hopefully we are nearing the end phase of this debacle and we can move onto campaigning for what is Scotland’s future an Independent Sovereign country. We will be well rid of the Union and all the corruption it stands for.

    200. Mike says:

      Rev Stu Campbell.


    201. Nana says:

      For a quiet afternoon

      Alan Bissett’s pre-Brexit thoughts and opinions on Scottish Independence

      Alan discusses what Independence means for him and could mean for Scotland and the opportunities it presents.
      Filmed at St Brycedale Kirk in 2014, posted as a lot of it is still valid even though so much has changed and in many areas to the point it may even be more valid today…

    202. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      I would like to see a no deal brexit from a selfish point of view.

      The fall out from this will be swift & very painful.

      However it would aid the push for Scottish independence more than any other outcome.

      It’s worth the sacrifice of England & Wales.After all it’s what they voted for according to some.

      Not nice? Certainly but I’m getting sick of all this.

    203. Hamish100 says:


      I understand your comments but ordinary Scots, Welsh, English, Irish and even other countries will suffer if we have a no deal– if it occurs

    204. K1 says:

      I’m posting the entire article from that link Nana, about agribusiness wanting the total removal of all our food standards as part of any post Brexit deal.

      Make no mistake this is also what this is all about, the absolute decimation of our agriculture and the introduction into the food chain of some of the most toxic chemicals that are currently banned in our food and safety laws.

      Anyone, anyone voting for Brexit, soft hard or no deal, should have this rammed down their throat, because this what it means in real terms. The utter destruction of our food safety laws and of our agri/fishing environment, the total absorption of our unique brand statuses and the over running and destruction of our Scottish government’s powers to do anything about any of this once the deals are done.

      Utter shower of craven bastard Tories will poison it’s own citizens to make a profit from this whole sorry mess:

      US agribusiness lobby calls on Trump to target UK food and environment rules in Brexit trade deal

      American negotiators urged to push the UK into scrapping regulations on pesticides, genetically-modified crops, and the production of chicken and meat products

      US businesses eye looser food standards as part of a post-Brexit trade deal with the UK.

      American agriculture interests have flooded the US government’s trade agency with demands to pressure the UK into slashing food standards after Brexit, official documents show.

      The US trade representative just closed its consultation with stakeholders on objectives for post-Brexit trade negotiations with the UK.

      Responses to the consultation, which was launched late last year, were dominated by the powerful food and agriculture lobby, which made nearly a quarter of the total submissions received — far more than any other sector of the US economy.

      The comments, made by dozens of the largest corporations and trade associations representing thousands of US businesses, urge US negotiators to push the UK into scrapping or weakening regulations that govern pesticides, genetically-modified crops, and the production of chicken and meat products as part of a post-Brexit trade deal.

      Food standards

      In its submission, global agri-industry giant Cargill said the US “should seek complete agricultural market access for its firms” and “eliminate intended or unintended non-tariff barriers in the agriculture sector.”

      In this context non-tariff barriers are rules that restrict trade from one market to another, such as the EU’s ban on the use of growth hormones in imported beef.

      The powerful American Farm Bureau Federation demanded “full recognition of the safety of the US agricultural and food system must be included.”

      This would mean that products such as hormone beef, chlorine washed chicken and genetically modified potatoes could be sold in the UK.

      It could also mean that the UK may be forced to permit the sale of fruit and vegetables grown with pesticides that are banned in the EU on environmental and safety grounds.

      The Bureau said: “full recognition of the safety of the US agricultural and food system must be included” in any agreement, and that the UK should “restore science as the basis for food safety regulation” by eliminating all restrictions on US agricultural exports.

      The National Pork Producers Council (NPPC) specifies “the elimination of all sanitary and phytosanitary [SPS] barriers to pork”, including measures designed to prevent tapeworm and antibiotic resistance.

      In 2017 a top lobbyist for the NPPC told Unearthed: “It would be over my dead body that a free trade agreement gets through the US Congress that doesn’t eliminate tariffs on food and agriculture products… and non-tariff barriers”.

      More on Brexit trade

      Trump’s top trade nominees lobbied for hormone-meat exports
      Trump administration releases trade barrier hitlist
      UK-India trade review calls for flexibility on food standards and chemical rules

      Hormone beef

      Similarly, the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, whose former staffer Greg Doud is now the Trump administration’s chief agricultural trade negotiator, calls on the US to demand that restrictions on beef reared using growth hormones are dropped.

      The agriculture lobby also zeroed in on EU rules on genetically modified organisms, with the National Potato Council seeking a deal that “allows for imports” of GMO food products while the American Sugar Alliance raises concerns over labelling.

      The EU’s strict regulations on trace amounts of pesticide in food is another issue for the industry, with both the Cranberry Marketing Committee and US Wheat Associates seeking relief from such standards.

      Koch efforts

      In another submission, the powerful libertarian outfit Americans for Prosperity, founded by the billionaire industrialist Koch brothers, said the countries should do “seamless and simple” trade, similar to that done between member states in the European Union.

      The letter reads: “There should be no tariffs. There should be no quotas. There should be no regulatory rules.”

      It also references the model trade deal drawn up by leading Brexit figure Daniel Hannan together with libertarian organisations on both sides of the Atlantic

      The Kochs have also been lobbying on Brexit negotiations on this side of the Atlantic, with their business’ listing the issue on its EU transparency register page.’

    205. Shinty says:

      20 pounds to any charity whoever’s first to take me on (sorry pound icon out of kilter on my keyboard)

      There will be no EU ref or GE called before 29th March. I believe this is all bluff to stave off Nicola announcing indyref.

    206. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Elizabeth Stanley @ 15:53,

      Indeed, though I would qualify that by saying the imminent prospect of a no-deal Brexit. Peak Fear. If we wait until after the dirty deed is done, we’ll be too late. (Though I don’t believe we will “miss the bus”.)

      People are fed up with all this political instability, as you say. Election after election that ultimately decides nothing. One good selling point of indy that has so far been largely neglected, I think, is that we can offer considerable instant relief from all that confusion, and finally give people a chance to get on with their lives.

    207. gus1940 says:

      I find it interesting that in unison our wonderful media are leaving us to think that an individual who was jailed yesterday is a native of Edinburgh.

      He is stated to be an Edinburgh resident which as a student at The University would apply to all students at the University.

      It is, however, stated that his parents live in London which would suggest that he is probably not a Scotsman but one of the band of Hooray Henrys who take up places which could be filled by Scots.

      Why is it that the media are so reluctant to point out his background other than that his parents are rich?

    208. boris says:

      I listened to the hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) speaking about producing another White Paper the other side of a general election, and I could almost hear the ghost of Sir Alec Douglas-Home speaking prior to the 1979 referendum.

      He also promised that we would get something better from the Conservatives, but they betrayed us after the 1979 election, and they would betray us again tomorrow given half a chance which, fortunately, they are unlikely to get.

    209. Elizabeth Stanley says:


      That’s why I added not nice.

      However we have suffered long enough from the vileness of Westminster parties,the suffering of so many people from all parts of the country.

      I want to see Tories destroyed,Labour mortally wounded & a totally new way of politics.

      Cloud cuckoo thinking on my part no doubt.

      Terrible for a few years but worth it for future generations?

    210. cearc says:

      PVs. You can hand your sealed postal vote in at the polling place on the day. It does not go in with the other ballots but in an other envelope which goes to the count with the ballot box.

      The signature renewal is perfectly valid and sensible. Arthritis can considerably change a signature as can other infirmities of the older years.

    211. Foonurt says:

      Jist arrivt, sah richt tae yoan boattum.

      Whit diz, yoan flee-awaw heid-ah hair, J. Curtice Esq., huv tae sprech abootit?

      Noo uhll daunnurr, ower folks’ coamments.

    212. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesndy2ref you have been swallowing the Britnat Military propaganda pill im afraid my friend.
      If you think jolly old Engerland could give the Ruskies a run for their money your sadly deluded.
      I have some experience in military matters, having mainly served at Bases which monitored actual Russian cababilities , I can tell you we would not last five minutes.

    213. Nana says:

      @K1 you are quite right to highlight that article, I provide the links in the hopes people will read them and that one is certainly worth drawing attention to, as is this one

      Recalls of ‘potentially lethal’ US meat and poultry nearly double since 2013

    214. Cubby says:

      I have a very strong stomach for watching the Britnat media but for the first time ever I had to stop watching last nights QT. Bruce is just terrible. Dumbledore was bad but Bruce’s political opinions are on full display.

      The whole audience were full of mad rule brittania no deal leavers who wanted to make Great Britain great again. Try going around the world invading and stealing other countries resources and see how that goes. It was like a lynch mob mentality when Abbot spoke about anything. Kirsty Blackman I thought looked as if she wanted to be somewhere else – Scotland probably.

      The media in England are whipping up some very nasty sentiments. It will not end well. Scotland needs to get the hell out of the UK now.

      The BBC stinks all the time of bias.

    215. schrodingers cat says:

      TheItalianJob says:
      @Robert J Sutherland
      Agree with your previous two posts on what benefit is a GE to the SNP, the Scottish people and the Independence cause i.e. none whatsoever.

      1. if treeza calls a ge now, then it leaves us a free run for indyref2, she wont be able to spring another during the campaign, as she did only a few months back??

      2. present polls put the snp on 42%, predicting a 5-10 seat gain for us

      3. present polls also show in the event of a no deal brexit, support for yes jumps to 59%. in such a case, the snp could win every seat

      4. have a look at the top of the page and read the article. the unionist entire argument against a s30 or indyref2 is based on the notion that the scots dont want one! what excuse will they use after we winback the seats lost in 2017?

      5. i cannot know what the result will be in england, but there is a chance, a small chance that the snp will hold the balance of power!!

      how does a ge change little for the snp?

    216. Gary says:

      Murdo Fraser seems to think that 43% is ‘absolutely no support’

      I seem to remember that back in 2014, when we got 45%, our starting position was considerably lower. If we START with 43% and have a campaign as good as the last one, we would be certain to win…

    217. Legerwood says:

      Nana at 5:09 pm and K1

      You can add lettuce to that list. Recent outbreaks of serious food poisoning in USA traced back to lettuce, specifically Romaine lettuce.

      At least 5 dead and several hundred taken I’ll

    218. yesindyref2 says:

      Robert is talking about 1 old smoky carrier with 6 Mig29s and 18 SU33s, without even the benefit of the usual missile cruiser. He’s not talking about the whole of the Russian Navy, surface and subs, being moored in the Moray Firth, with the whole of the Russian Air Force based in Norway!

    219. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      schrodingers cat @ 17:18

      if treeza calls a ge now, then it leaves us a free run for indyref2, she wont be able to spring another during the campaign,

      Whit?? I’m seriously beginning to doubt your judgement. “IF”? You have shown no reason why May would wish to have a general election any time soon – the elements are all very much to the contrary – and you apparently still haven’t registered that the LibDems at least are determined to block any opportunity for her to indulge in such a distraction, even supposing she were ill-advised enough to be tempted.

      This desperate wish of yours to erect the obstacle of a totally pointless UKGE betrays an even more worrying aspect of your thinking, namely that you clearly hope to see no move to IR2 any time soon. Frankly, it is exactly this kind of funk that is exceedingly worrisome to a large and growing number in the indy movement, including many members of the SNP.

    220. Nana says:

      Article by Jim Hunter Historian
      Unwelcome migrants arriving in large numbers on overcrowded boats – never forget that was once us

      EU Committee publishes exchange of correspondence with @MoJGovUK about Political Declaration on future UK-EU relations, and its implications for #HumanRightsAct

    221. K1 says:

      Christ the twitter bots abound btl on that channel 4 piece.

    222. yesindyref2 says:

      Interesting QT has a warm-up session. It makes sense, but that should be a neutral time, questions about squirrels.

      Instead of that is seems to be used to set the tone, create the mindset, indoctrinate the audience and other panellists even, and it explains quite a lot about what we see on the screen – not that I watch it much!

      The BBC never ceases to shock and disgust.

    223. K1 says:

      Stephen Bush, political editor of the New Statesman, wrote an article earlier today stating that 3 cabinet ministers and 6 junior ministers were getting prepared for a GE, whether reports like this have legs I don’t know, but it certainly seems like it ‘could’ be a possibility if this article is accurate:

      ‘At least nine government ministers, three of whom are in the cabinet, have instructed their constituency associations to prepare for an early election, the New Statesman has learnt. Four of them named 28 February as the date.

      In addition, a further two associations reported that speakers had suggested moving fundraising events to accommodate a possible contest.

      One minister, who holds a marginal seat in the south, has already designed and written their election address, as has another with a safe seat in the south east; one north-east association has likewise been instructed to provide election material. All have been asked to expedite re-adoption procedures. (Under Tory party rules, sitting MPs face a vote of their local executive if they wish to continue on as the party’s candidate.)

      One association chair was told that the only way to break the deadlock was an election, while another has been informed that even should the withdrawal agreement pass, it will not be done so in a way that retains the support of the DUP, without which the Conservative Party cannot continue to govern.

      Although in theory the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act takes the timing of an election out of the Prime Minister’s hands, in practice, should Theresa May request one it would be forthcoming as the opposition is bound to vote for it.

    224. K1 says:

      Wrang thread 🙂

    225. yesindyref2 says:

      Worth saying twice 🙂

    226. K1 says:

      If she promises those Tories who rejected the deal that they won’t be deselected and proves it by calling a ge, that would ensure, if they win in England anyway, that she would get ‘her’ deal through. It would also be a form of a referendum on the deal too.

      If Labour are gaining ground in England, she’ll want to prevent that sooner rather than later too.

    227. yesindyref2 says:

      I actually raised that Kuznetsov thing, indirectly at first, on a UKDJ thread about a Giraffe upgrade, army radar which Rapier uses. The conclusion and my own quick research seems to be that we don’t have many Rapier air defence systems, and a good few of them of course would be based overseas. In addition they’re army only now, whereas the RAF regiment used to have them – but the Typhoon replaces it.

      Conclusion? The UK seems actually to be a bit of a soft target for a close-in surprise attack, and perhaps depends too heavily on away based defence and attack, plus the deterrents, nuclear and carrier. And of course, QRA and the expectation at least one of 6 SSNs would be close enough.

      So – I’d declare honours even in the battle between RP and LH on the one hand, and me on the other 🙂

    228. yesindyref2 says:

      Sorry, 7 SSNs (Trafalgar and Astute).

    229. yesindyref2 says:

      For completeness, Rapier (short-range) is being replaced by a medium range air defence, CAMM I think from memory.

      Personally, for iScotland, I’d like to see a more thorough ground-based air defence, we wouldn’t have the same numbers of interceptor fast jets, nor the longer range “strike-back” deterrent, and our primary purpose is indeed to protect home shores from attack.

    230. yesindyref2 says:

      Okey-doke, CAMM:

      Range 1 to 25+ km, 3 times the range of Rapier, CAMM-ER is 1 to 45+ km. Sounds OK to me, some of each for iScotland. Probably plus Giraffe by Saab, fits into a Nordic co-operation and gives work to Edinburgh I think.

      Sorted, I’ll have to work out how many, off-hand about 30.

      Add to that the Skjold or similar, 6 of, for 45 knot up to 60 knot anti-ship with the NSM, and that’s Scotland covered, air and sea defence. Just sub-sea to go now!

    231. Foonurt says:

      Wull, awe thae union erses, oan Radio Union thurr moarnin.

      Wurrit, aboot Scoattish Independence. Comin tae Scoatlinn sin. Braw!

      yesindyref2 – fuck awe thae shitey bullets, guns, bombs, warplanes, missiles, warships, submarines. Fuckin awfae hings.

      Whin Independent, wae kin fling coos’ shite ett thurr basturts. Stave aff, global-wahrrmin.

    232. yesindyref2 says:

      Not coo shite, they’re bad for global warming. Vegetables are fine.

    233. Davosa says:

      Murdo ‘Bigot’ Fraser the best advert for independence I can think of !

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