Liars plague our land
This is the latest cinema ad from fake-grassroots campaign group “Vote No Borders”:
And below is why it’s a despicable, shameful lie.
If you need a hand or just have a really short attention span, the key phrase is in Part I (1) (I): “the establishment in England and Wales of a comprehensive health service”.
As we’ve pointed out many times on this site, the NHS has NEVER, not for a single solitary day of its existence, been a UK-wide entity. Healthcare in the UK is handled by four entirely separate, entirely independent organisations: NHS Scotland, NHS England, NHS Wales and Health and Social Care in Northern Ireland (HSCNI).
(The England and Wales NHS, set up in 1946, did remain a single body until 1969, when it was split into two. The Welsh service is now run by the Welsh Assembly. HSCNI was formed in 1948, a year after NHS Scotland.)
Spending on NHS Scotland is determined solely by the Scottish Government, which allocates resources to it from its budget as it sees fit, with no input from Westminster.
Political independence would therefore change absolutely nothing about the relationship between four services which are already independent. The mechanisms governing cross-border treatment and funding already exist and are used daily, and patients are further protected by the European Health Insurance Card scheme which ensures reciprocal treatment in any states in the European Economic Area.
We’re sure that “Vote No Borders” already know all this, but have made the decision to cynically take advantage of the fact that a great many Scots don’t in order to frighten them with the false prospect that they or their loved ones might suffer as a result of Scotland voting to run its own affairs.
(Which is presumably also why comments are disabled on all their YouTube videos, lest anyone want to let viewers know the truth.)
We’ll leave it there before we express any further opinions.
Shameless, lying toe rags. The people behind this campaign are utterly despicable.
This goes beyond ‘moral ignorance’. This goes beyond ‘proud patriotic nationalism’. This is worthy of Goebbels or Von Ribbentrop. Same shit different day.
Another perfect post that a first time visitor/casual browser should read.
Well of course they’re going to lie, what else do they have? There’s no logical argument for the Union.
I genuinely can’t understand why they couldn’t be sued for lying….Some sort of responsibility to tell the truth for advertising. Ugh.
Sigh.
Same shit, different day.
More people know the truth about the status of NHS Scotland than you might think, and I can’t speak for the rest of them, but I tell any and all who speak about the NHS like a single UK wide entity that it has never been such in all it’s history.
The beauty of that fact is the phrase ‘but don’t take my word for it, just go online. It won’t be hard to find our for yourself.’
Because it really is that simple.
More lies!!!! Unbelievable how do they get away with it??
Is this legal? Will it be legal when the official campaign period begins?
Absolute propagandist shite, no excuse for people not knowing this now though. I didn’t know the NHS was separate but sites like WoS are getting the truth out. Rev provides the ammo it’s up to us to use it.
And it p’s me off that they took the crown off our unicorn..grrrr
Get Eleanor Bradford on the case.
Are there not laws which protect us from mis-advertising…? Can we take legal action?
Had a customer say he was a no. I asked why and he said if his daughter (his daughter’s 19 and perfectly healthy) took unwell and there wasn’t a hossie in Scotland that could do it she couldn’t have the operation in England if we were independent. I told him that was a load of shite as we have always had a different health system (thanks Rev) and he could go anywhere in the U.K. for the op. Still didn’t believe me though. Some people I just want to give up on but won’t.
The campaign from the No side is an absolute fraud. This is the campaign who act as if we would not be able to use the pound, we would have to use the Euro, be out of the EU (the irony of the rise of UKIP should be lost on nobody in the context of the independence referendum), and here yet another lie about the NHS in Scotland not being independent already.
If we had an honest, impartial MSM, particularly the state broadcaster, the No campaign would have been held to account long ago, and they would have had to justify their constant lies to the people of Scotland. Alas that has not happened. It is shameful, and far too many journalists have been complicit in this failure to challenge the No campaign’s falsehoods.
I see that the clip above manages to again talk disparagingly about foreigners. Where have the MSM been in challenging this all to evident xenophobia? They have not challenged the No campaign even once on this. It really is beyond the pale. What must people originally from overseas, living in Scotland, think about this disgraceful rhetoric from the No campaign?
Surely the Advertising Standards Authority would take action against this?
And has anyone noticed…there’s that word again…”foreigners”
No lie is too wee, too big, or too dirty for the Pom Frits.
Whit aboot the borders they created or had a hand in; N Ireland, Gibraltar, India, Hong Kong, Israel, Korea, Vietnam. The list is endless, add to them yersel’s.
I think I am gonnae pish into a bottle and advertise it as the elixir of life and that drinking it will make you immune to all disease.
It would be on a par with that advert which is full of pish anyway
I made the exact same point in response to a post on Vote no Borders on 6 May. I have since been banned and all my posts deleted, but I have kept screen prints to show none of my posts were abusive.
If I was a Scottish journalist I would be looking at retraining as a welder or something…
May or may not be illegal,but when the arbiter of such things is an organ of the state,it will take 6 months to go through the correct channels lol.
By then,it won’t matter.
BBC lies
CBI lies
VNB lies
Labour lies
Tory lies
LibDems big fu*king lies
Scotsman lies
Better Together lies
Scottish Affairs Select Committee lies
I knew it wasn’t going to be easy but sometimes the bastards can grind you down.
I do funny stuff, I poke fun, I’m away to cry – this is the sorry end of idiots.
As you say Rev they are taking advantage of the fact that most people don’t know its a lie. Not much can be done without a counter advert. No newspaper will point out what they are doing. Seems like they just get away with it. And when they win they write the history where they won through facts and reasoned argument. We will be deluded racist nationalist. May be we should tell our own lies. They need to be really BIG lies. Conspiracy stuff.
( hey Thepnr re-train as a journalist pronto)
@Stoops
The ASA won’t (can’t) do anything because it’s a political advert! Yes they can lie through their teeth if it’s anything to do with Politics, a lot like the majority of Westminster Politicians!
Anyway,I think we’ll be having a pretty good health service with the savings from paying our share of stuff we’ll never see(or use for that matter)
Nae bother.
Anyone want to complain:
link to cinemaadvertisingassociation.co.uk
Or here.
link to asa.org.uk
Our side may not have all the answers and there is unkowns for after Indy but this constant blatant lying is disgusting and unforgivable.
Political adverts are specifically exempt from the ASA requirements to be truthful, accurate. It baffles me as to why.
Shockingly bad video.
It seems to be motivated by the better together UKIPConLab “foreigners out” thought process rather than how medical care is actually funded.
Anyone who sees it in a cinema simply needs to shout out:-
“COMPLETE LYING SHITE”
I hate liars and WM/BT are rife with them
Today sucks. Roll on tomorrow.
It is despicable because they know that the BBC/STV/MSM won’t pull them up about it. If the independent supporting Sunday Herald is worth its salt then they would do an expose on these lies, not via a correspondent or a quote from a commenting SNP politician, but an investigation by the newspaper itself.
Still, on the bright side we have:
Wings
Bella
Greg Moodie
Wee Ginger Dug
Newsnet
Scot goes Pop
Numerous other websites and blogs
Various and varied Yes Scotland groups
The Green Party
SSP
People on the right
People on the left
UKIP
Johann Lamont
Ed Milliband
Despite all the lies, it’s still going to happen.
If there’s a Yes vote there can be reconciliation as we all work towards our new future. Stuff like this comes from London, and they will be gone.
However, it has gone far too far for reconciliation if there is a close No win, because we will have been cheated by crooks, liars and charlatans.
Disabling comments on youtube in itself is suspicious. Now we know why. Shysters.
“Surely the Advertising Standards Authority would take action against this?”
Don’t make me link to this every other day, readers:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
It’s hilarious how the video description has to constantly reiterate how VNB are the “positive” ones of the No camp.
“light-hearted sketches”
“light-hearted manner”
“inspired by the words of Scottish people”
Hey guys, did we also mention they’re Scottish actors? In case you couldn’t tell by the overstated accents and idioms?
Vote No Borders is a dishonest company.
It’s essentially operating “underground,” which is not the same as grass roots. It specialises in fabricating lies.
Those operating it are tainted.
The taint is the inch of skin between genitals and anus.
I wonder how much these two clowns were paid to sell their nation down the Swanee? Couple of hundred quid?
But our MSM will never challenge these lies. As was demonstrated again tonight with the research funding scare story, the role of the BBC and STV is simply to repeat BT press releases.
If there is a more supine, craven, and dishonest media anywhere in the world in a so called democracy I’d love to hear about it.
@Grouse Beater –
I thought that was called a ‘gooch’, as in ‘hey, wee man, ahm gonny boot yer gooch’.
Anyway, one of the great things about WOS is that you can normally ask questions on just about anything, and someone will have an answer, or know someone who does, so…
How much, roughly, must NVB be shelling out to get these ads in cinema and on Youtube? Are we talking five or six figures? Not the cost of producing the stuff, but buying the space – anyone have any idea?
“I genuinely can’t understand why they couldn’t be sued for lying….Some sort of responsibility to tell the truth for advertising. Ugh.”
I can’t understand that either! If it was a product or service being advertised that didn’t do what it was supposed to do or wasn’t what it said it was then surely the advertiser / manufacturer could be prosecuted under the Trades Descriptions Act or something??
Surely blatant lies are not allowed? Is there not some sort of advertising standard law that they are not adhering to??
This is just an absolute disgrace – it’s not even a distortion of the truth – it’s an out an out lie!
Putting the cynical, bare faced lying to one side for a second, the use of the word “foreigners” is particularly nasty too. Its disgusting.
Sorry for going on but it just f*cking bugs me that they took the crown off our unicorn 🙁
Rev Stu: your link says “a political party can say absolutely anything it likes.” But VNB isn’t a political party, do the ASA rules apply to limited companies too?
You all know that we can’t take on the entire MSM and the likes of Nob Orders by trying to emulate what they do. We have to do it differently and that can only be by word of mouth.
Take me, I’ve got 3 undecided/No’s in my sights, they are:
1. My Mother in Law (can’t stand salmond)
2. A colleauge of 20 years (haven’t looked yet)
3. A cousin (support Rangers and the Union)
So, my strategy is to chip away bit by bit, I don’t bombard them with links but chose a select few. If I have the opportunity to talk face to face I show them a video or two.
I believe I’m winning the Mother in Law over. The colleague hasn’t said a peep about the links I’ve sent him but I know he’s thinking.
My cousin, well I haven’t really started other than sticking links on facebook but I will soon.
If we all do that and hope to get 2 out of 3 we are winning this, I don’t try and tell them the truth, much much easier to expose the lies. That makes them think.
@Heather McLean
Heather do you not fancy a few hours at CH2 next Friday, I’ve kept seat for you and yer pals 🙂
Sadly we have to conclude lying is now a core ‘British’ value.
Has this been reported to the advertising standards.I believe the most important tenant is that an advert must not be misleading.However I presume that political adverts can just say whatever they choose.Oh unless its Glasgow Underground!
Playing devils advocate here, but the EHIC system only covers you while visiting another EU country. You are hardly going to visit with your sick child in the hope you would get into Great Ormond Street.
It should be pointed out that Scots have contributed not inconsiderable sums to GOS over the years.
Another thing, only a few years ago the Isle of Man and UK reciprocal health agreement was torn up. So there is recent precedent that the UK is desperate to save money and will punish sick people to do so.
Oh, and I noticed they slipped in “foreigners” again. Sigh.
@castle rock says: 9:36pm.
Now we know why all the proud Scots are voting NO. They can’t face up to the truth it frightens them.
Prof Curtis opines on radio 5.
States Labour has achieved 4% swing from the tories. Not nearly enough he says if looking to win in 2015.
Lib dems to watch out especially the MP’s as it’s their turn to get stuffed next not just their poor councillors. (poetic license here). 🙂
“Long list of foreigners waiting to be seen [at the Royal Marsden and Great Ormond Street]”
To be seen by foreign doctors and care workers.
I speak as a former patient of the Marsden (1999 – 2004) and my wife died in intensive care there in 2008. A significant proportion of the expertise, care and support was provided by non UK nationals.
This “foreigner” sh1te has got to stop.
test
Saturday night at the movies,
Who cares what picture you see,
When Vote No Borders are
Shitting on your count-a-ry..
Truth
The Isle of Man reciprocal health agreement has been reinstated
I don’t like it when lies like this are broadcast but what I like even less is when YES or the SNP don’stand up on their hind legs and shout out what the truth is – there’s too much turn the other cheek and be brave.
Maybe I’m wrong and they are just saving up their ammo for the big bang when the real campaign begins, it does however leave a certain sense of time running out.
@ Wee Jonny Campbell
This is a very good site to show the hard to converts:
link to show.scot.nhs.uk
OR with good links at the bottom for all the 4 different NHS
link to nhs.uk
In its present 1984 regime like state, Scotland must be one of the worst countries in the world to live, in terms of public control and manipulation.
Unbelievable. Still, from a company that will stoop to “rebranding” Israel as something acceptable I don’t think we can expect and better. Lying is what they do for a living.
A new tag for their propaganda. BRITSHIT.
The latest Yes paper has a tiny bit about the NHS, schools and police already run by the Scottish Parliament but stuff like this should be emphasised. I’ve said it before but why was this edition four pages lighter? They could have done a myths debunked article, a feature on Business for Scotland and Academicas for Scotland. Now is not the time to skimp. I’m delivering these but I’m annoyed by this edition. The next one, the final one better be a good one or they can get another mug to deliver them.
Oops *any
Mair o the same
The reconciliation is going to be a hoot and a half. Sure we shat all over your YES vote but that’s just our crazy wacky teamGB ways and so what if England’s privatising health care down there, get yourselves some BUPA shares, tasty.
Lets all just shake hands, salute the union jack and think of the Queen.
You are all missing the obvious…just boycott all cinemas until they pull the ads.
I wonder who owns the cinemas, and are they complicit?
They could be showing them for free.
Is there anyone raising money to make cinema advertising that can go on screen either before or after this explaining what you explain above? If not, why not?
We’re starting to ge some good buzzwords going here.
BRITSHIT is on the list and cyberfart from the other day was a banger!
Forgot this Scot NHS site which is also very good
link to ournhsscotland.com
Fockwits and Phannies
Well O/T here but just feel this needs another shot..it’s a post by McKiwi on the Book Smart,Street Stupid thread…
I am a Scottish-born New Zealander (and, for my sins, a retired Professor) who is currently living , briefly, in Germany. I can’t remember how I discovered WoS, but I’ve been reading it and other Yes blogs for the past couple of months. So, before going on to what prompted me to post this message, I’d like to say thank you to Stuart for (a) arousing a real interest in what’s happening in the country of my birth, (b) for some REAL journalism and, (c) for making me give up on believing anything the BBC says and reducing my online Guardian reading to about 2 minutes a day.
Now to what I really wanted to say. The shit about Scotland being too small, too far away, too stupid etc. to be able to run its own affairs has been infuriating me. This latest piece of crap was the final straw, so here we go. Comparisons have been made with other small European countries but I haven’t come across any with NZ.
NZ has a population of about 4.5m people. We have no fighter jets. We have no submarines. We have no aircraft carriers. Nuclear weapon carrying and nuclear powered vessels are banned from our waters. We were cold-shouldered by the US for years because of this but I don’t recall anybody invading us.
We are about 3,000km, separated by ocean, from our nearest neighbours and over 12,000km from our biggest market. We have no oil worth talking about. We have very little manufacturing. We make our living from being a primary producer, mainly dairy, and primary produce makes up about 68% of exports. Tourism, “knowledge” and other services make up about 25%. Unlike Australia, we don’t live by digging ourselves up and exporting the outcome to China. In the OECD stats on GDP per capita, in which a lot of people put a lot of stock, we rank only 3 places below the UK which is a very unimpressive 17th.
So, according to the BT “logic”, NZ shouldn’t exist. We’re far too small, we’re too far away from anywhere, we don’t have an army that can be used for aggression and we’re just a bunch of farmers. We should, presumably, be petitioning to give away our sovereignty and become part of Australia.
Scotland, however, is part of and will continue to be part of, the second or third (depending on how it’s measured) largest economy in the world. Scotland has whisky, various primary produce, still has some manufacturing, has its own “tech” industries, has terrific tourism potential, and I don’t need to say anything about an educated population. Scotland is geographically connected to its largest trading partner. Scotland also has oil.
So given, these comparisons, why can’t Scotland exist as a nation? Why does Scotland need England? NZ, much less favourably situated and with fewer resources, gets by very well.
Sorry for the length of this post, but I needed to get it off my chest.
No lie is too great to save the union, I fear. What I find particularly insidious about these videos is they are described as “light hearted” – like somehow that makes the bald-faced lying fear mongering more acceptable. It’s deliberately targeted to intimidate anybody with family or friends with medical conditions into voting no purely out of fear. Despicable isn’t a strong enough word for this.
UK Gov is engaging in its classic divide and conquer tactics in order to spread FUD in the electorate. We need every outlet we can get our hands on in order to get the truth out to voters.
Great site this and definitely needed by all to combat the layers of lies about independence, but it can also be depressing and frustrating to know that so many Scots are still being duped into thinking we are incapable of survival on our own.
If for one moment I didn’t think the facts supplied on here were true an verifiable I would post my concerns.
I was a little peeved at this particular advert too. I have had the ‘pleasure’ of being a recipient of NHS Scotland’s care three times (so far) in the past 12 months and have enjoyed the professional attention of a Polish, Scottish and South African anaesthetists, Chinese, Pakistani and Indian (though may well be British born) surgeons as well as Scottish, Irish, English and Nigerian(? – I honestly don’t know but he was definitely an African from Africa) GPs as well as Scottish and Eastern European nurses. I am rather grateful these particular foreigners were let in the country…
link to arewebettertogetherscotland.wordpress.com
Talking about Liars, have just now clicked onto BBC Parliament channel to see debate on “Referendum on SEPARATION for Scotland” with Sir Nicholas MacPherson.
I can’t wait to use this as my countdown post tomorrow, absolutely despicable
All we can do, is just keep telling everyone the absolute truth over things such as the Scottish NHS. We then back that up by telling them that the media is also lying through it’s teeth. Not just the newspapers, but organisations such as BBC Scotland and STV.
I think it is fair to say (and I’ve heard a few ‘Yes’ members say this) that we need to wipe the slate clean post Yes with the media. I agree with that point of view. It should be hard, but fair. Basically, ‘Enough is enough. We won, you lost. Now, what is done is done, but from this point on, we make it a clean slate, and you start reporting news fairly and properly. Continue as you have done before, then serious changes will be made, and you may not like it. It will be as simple as that‘
After that …we wait and see. If the lying and vitriol continues like that of a petulant child that hasn’t got its way, then at that point, I would begin the process of removing people from key positions. We can’t have, what in effect will be the new state media poisoning the atmosphere, by allowing resentment to not only continue, but possibly build; especially those with more extreme views from the ‘No’ camp.
I would forgive. I would give them a new clean start …but should they start their nonsense again, then we clean house. It is as simple as that.
“ I’m away to cry – ”
I know what you mean.
Turnip Ghost – Love the name!
It’s simple – if you need treatment available at a specialist centre in either another area of Scotland or in England, your local health board organises this and pays for the care. They’ll probably even fund your travel costs.
Of course the way NHS rUK is going, you may well be going to a private hospital but no matter, the treatment will still be funded.
To suggest anything else is a complete lie. Funny that.
@Liquid Lenny
Thanks, I stand corrected.
Good to know that sense has prevailed.
Helmets!
Separation its no joke, but this heap o shite is, the only way is to boycott the cinemas showing them, and make them aware why..they’ll soon catch on…xxx
There really needs to be an actual grassroots campaign from those who support Independence to fund and put out counter-advertising pointing out that the NHS is being privatised will be gone soon enough if we don’t vote Yes. Not just for this one specific advert but for every one they and better together run that is full of lies.
Let the official Yes campaign concentrate on being positive. Someone still needs to tell it like it is in the meantime for Yes and make just as much noise as ‘No Borders’ is. Right now they are going unanswered (apart from on sites like this) along with some of better together’s lies and propaganda.
It’s naive to think allowing the other side to get in their lies is risk free and without cost. Independence supporters either hit the No campaign back hard with the harsh realities of Westminster’s incompetence and malice, or Yes will be spending all their time correcting their lies leaving little to no time at all getting their own message out.
O/T, but worth pointing out :-
In the 2010 local elections, held on the same day as the GE (& we know what a disaster that was for Gordo), Labour actually gained 417 council seats.
Last night’s local elections : Labour have gained less than 300. Their vote share was only 2% more than the Tories. History demonstrates that all incumbent govts increase their share of the vote towards an election.
Labour can spin all they want – they are not going to form a majority govt next year.
I went to the vote no borders website and ran the video there. They say they are not political. This should mean they can be reported to the relevant advertising authorities.
Spread the word on Scotlands Independent Press:.
read recently the only way to counter Soviet type propaganda is to give people something to read.
We need to get more people reading WoS.Newsnetscotland and Bella C. etc
Get your hands on Aye Right leaflets and distribute them.
Leaflet lists 14 pro indy web sites.
get leaflets at:
wingsoverscotland.com/…/
What I found interesting about the English local elections last night is that if you compare the voting to 2010 it looks like the Tory votes went to UKIP.
However, if you compare to 2012, it is clear that the votes have gone from Labour to UKIP as Tories and Lib Dems are virtually unchanged since then, but Labour down 12% or so and UKIP up about 14%.
Of course it should be remembered the turnout was tiny and that always messes with things.
Cinema is a cunning choice too as you can close a youtube webpage but you cant get away from a giant ad waiting for the movie. Must be costing a bloody fortune though.
It seems that the English are fretting about fracking.
Is this going to be the War of the Wolds, or the War of the Wealds?
Getting into bed with ANY Tory is not a good idea….
Brace, Brace, Brace….
http://www.eezypeezylemonsqeezy.com
Should we not ease up on HMH Better Together, the BBC and MSM? After all, the NHS Scotland isn’t Fiona Apples.
HMG Better Together
Does anyone know if we can complain to YouTube?
Well I have my convert – a Labour supporting friend of mine has always rejected my input – head in the sand, die hard labour, etc, has finally said she will not vote No and will either be a Yes or will not vote at all – because it will not be her Scotland?
Believe me that is a result – she is the most stubborn person I know and was almost put forward as a labour councillor but internal politics meant she was rejected in favour of a current MSP who is a total eejit.
@liz – a current MSP who is a total eejit
Think you need to narrow that doon a wee bit liz 🙂
@Croompenstein – s/he has featured on WoS as ‘most stupid/ridiculous statement of the week’.
If you get a minute, please help create a soundtrack for Thepnr’s bus trip to the Counting House next Friday – pop over to off-topic and make a suggestion, or, better still, provide a YT link:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
The whole thing stinks, folks.
Just been rooting about the web and wiki.
Most cinemas are owned by big investment corporations.
The chain with most Scottish cinemas is Vue, owned by Omers private equity along with another investment management corporation.
For advertising, they use ‘Digital cinema media’
For others advertising is managed by Pearl and Dean.
God knows where this will all lead but methinks there’s something fishy going on here.
What connections have these people got?
Will keep digging….
I’m absolutely sick of these lying bastards and all their fabricated bullshit.
I’m past the reconciliation stage with these scum and as (insert deity of choice) is my witness, I swear I will NEVER forgive any of them now. I am thoroughly disgusted with them and their odious little tin pot imperial fantasies.
It should never have come to this and part of me is ashamed for feeling this way but I feel genuine hatred for them now.
Sorry.
Strictly speaking, this film is not inaccurate. The Rev is quite right when he points out that “the mechanisms governing cross-border treatment and funding already exist and are used daily” but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they will continue in the event of Scottish independence.
Personally I can’t see why they wouldn’t, but I am a bit alarmed by the Scottish Government’s claim that “there are already effective cross-border working arrangements in place which will provide a strong foundation for continued co-operation, just as there are with Ireland”.
Bad example. Irish citizens do have to pay for NHS treatment in the UK (with specific exemptions).
All that aside, and although I can’t agree that “we’re dealing with liars”, I do think that this campaign is a scaremongering disgrace.
knock me doon wae a feather Churm Rincewind lights the blue touchpaper!
RogueCoder
“It’s deliberately targeted to intimidate anybody with family or friends with medical conditions into voting no purely out of fear”
To be fair to the Westminster Government and their Scottish Labour Party supporters (they are after all the people paying and supporting VNB) the video is actually quite good as that’s exactly the kind of propaganda that they’ve been using against Scotland for years.
Would love to be a fly on the wall when the Scottish Unionist hierarchy meets to discuss what their next steps will be to stop us becoming independent.
If they can dream up and produce this kind of shite I wonder what they’ve got in store for us in the weeks leading up to the referendum.
@ Churm Rincewind, The figures show that Britain spends £368m on treatment for Irish nationals, says the
link to telegraph.co.uk
Rev- what about a cinema advert shown immediately after the Vote NOB advert stating ” the previous advert you where just shown is a load of pish ” – would counter act their lies plus have the captive audience in stiches
@Croompenstein – True. I’m waiting for the rockets.
stitches – sorry
twenty14:
” the previous advert you where just shown is a load of pish ”
Brilliant, take the piss out of them with humour.
“…all though I can’t agree “we’re dealing with liars” I do think this campaign is a scaremongering disgrace.”
I’m interested in how you square those two statements.
Are you saying that they are NOT lying?
Or am I missing something?
@Thepnr
Keep chipping away pal. You will get there, it can be done.
Hubs and I managed to turn his diehard “Naw, we cannae. I hate Salmond.” parents to definite Ayes.
They took about a year to convince, their last straw was the ridiculous Tory proposition of harassing people working part-time to get full-time hours or face getting their measly top up benefits sanctioned.
We also convinced 2 Rangers/OO supporters to vote Aye, just by showing them the truth behind the things they believed from the telly.
Never give up! 🙂
@heedtracker: Indeed. But I’m not sure of your point here. Are you agreeing with the Telegraph’s conclusions?
Is VNB registered with Electoral Commission?
Excuse my ignorance.
@ Churm Rincewind, you say “Personally I can’t see why they wouldn’t, but I am a bit alarmed by the Scottish Government’s claim that “there are already effective cross-border working arrangements in place which will provide a strong foundation for continued co-operation, just as there are with Ireland”.
Why are you alarmed though?
Umm – apart from us and crowds who jeer – is this Nob Order worth giving oxygen to?
UKOK & NOB Odours
@David Smith.
I understand your feelings David but don’t let it bend you out of shape.
And remember, revenge is a dish best served cold.
🙂
@David Smith: The ad specifically refers to the Royal Marsden and Great Ormond Street hospitals, which provide highly specialised care in oncology and pediatrics respectively at levels which are currently unavailable in Scotland. At present, and as the Rev points out, NHS Scotland is able to refer extreme cases to these hospitals under agreements already in place.
These agreements may or may not continue in the events of an independent Scotland, and as I’ve already said I can’t see why they wouldn’t. But it’s not a given, and to that extent the film is accurate.
But this only applies to specialist care. My objection to the film is that it seems to imply that regular, everyday, NHS treatment will be denied to Scots in the event of independence, which simply isn’t true.
It’s perfectly possible for a statement to be technically correct but misleading at the same time.
Which I guess is my point.
Cheer up folks… just watched the gig at George Square and counted loads of Saltires in the crowd of 14,000 young folk… There was not the slightest sign of the apron anywhere. Indeed, one young lad was in a full Saltire Catsuit, resplendent with Saltire Cape.
Remember, the more the establishment thrash around and make noises, the more tangled in the web of lies they become. 😉
In ’79, all sorts of stuff was appearing on leaflets, posters, stickers, you name it. Some of it has appeared here. But it’s not easy to find. Yes, it’s archived, and the National Library probably has copies of pretty-much all the propaganda produced in Scotland in the twentieth century.
But how could ordinary punters access it post-’79? How many would even suspect that such material is kept, let alone go to Edinburgh, fill out forms, spend a full day following trails which may lead nowhere?
Now, everything is being stored, cached offline. VNB/BTUKOK and every other political party/lobby group (official or otherwise) has to consider the fact that each and every item produced has a footprint, is not archived centrally, and is prima facie evidence of their activities.
Within hours of VNB being ‘launched’, we collectively sussed what they were all about and forced them to shut down, merely by poking fun at them. (If any ‘vile Cybernattery’ was involved then we’ve yet to see it.)
The fact that VNB is still going proves that it’s part of something larger, more co-ordinated and centrally funded. All of the connections will, in time, be established via incontrovertible evidence they’ve already left, be it financial, ‘virtual’, or otherwise. (Someone who knows about such stuff once told me that birds of prey locate their food because rodents are essentially incontinent, and leave a trail of urine wherever they go – hawks can ‘see’ that pish, and their lives depend upon that ability.)
We can see the pish. Better still, we’ve got these people by the balls, and they know it. Now? It’s pure brinkmanship, and we know which side the ‘blinker’ is on.
I have written a complaint to Cineworld and Odeon, if just one complaint gets Wings removed from the Glasgow Underground maybe one complaint will be enough here.
My son went to the cinema tonight(Fri) and saw this very same video about the NHS. There was another from BT.
2 points.
1. He thought the NHS video was “persuasive”
2. He was extremely disappointed there was no video from the Yes Campaign.
So was I.
Stoops says:
23 May, 2014 at 9:27 pm
Surely the Advertising Standards Authority would take action against this?
__________________________________________________________
The ASA is a fully paid up member of the Unionist Establishment.
It will do nothing.
Indeed. So far we’ve seen them lying about the oil being pretty much our only source of income funding our services, about Scotland somehow having no way to aid its own citizens in other countries, and now the NHS. These “sketches” are predicated on complete and utter falsehoods.
What on earth is next? You just know they’re going to get bolder and bolder. They won’t start off with the really big ones, for fear of setting off alarm bells. But after a few that sound like they could be true, then they’ll start the real nasty deceptions.
Attacks on the Scottish government probably won’t be far off: presenting its pro-immigration stance as a bad thing (as part of the anti-immigration agenda we already see on the news), pretending that the “named person” system is some form of totalitarian overture, presenting the SNP not introducing childcare/raising the 5p tax/voting against living wage as “bargaining chips” for the referendum.
Then, who knows – maybe they’ll actually start on outright inventions.
“So my sister came over frae Armenia!”
“Oh aye?”
“She wis fleein’ her husband, who thinks she haud an affair!”
“Oh ho ho, fantastic, what happened?”
“She’s deid.”
“HAHAHA… wh-whit?”
“Honour killing.”
“In Scotland?”
“Aye. Hacked tae death by a mob.”
“Jeez-o. Did th’ polis get them?”
“The polis watched. That’s what happens when you let in too many Muslims – ye get Sharia Law.”
“… That’s not funny.”
“Never said it was.”
Went to see the new X-Men film at the Showcase in Coatbridge this evening. I was with my best friend whom I suspect is a No – she just never talks about it despite all my badges and stickers. I was absolutely dreading one of these BT ads being shown, but not a sausage thank goodness.
I don’t know if I was just lucky, or if the Showcase isn’t showing the things.
@Morag –
Was it any good? The weans are pestering me, but I’m not keen…
I haven’t read all the comments yet so apologies if it has been mentioned. But!
It pisses me right off that BT and the rest of the festering cabal of lying parasites can get away with utter shite like this. And Rev Stu`s Wingsoverscotland add got pulled off the Glasgow subway due to “complaints” FFS!
Taranaich, I fear they might actually use that as a script, honestly wouldn’t put it past them.
At least your comment here has a timestamp type thingy so you could use it as evidence to sue for copyright infringement 🙂
@manandboy
The cinemas can choose what “advertising” they accept. The YES campaign cannot force them to accept a YES campaign ad just like the rev could not force Glasgow Underground to keep up his ad.
You need to explain this to your son.
This topic was covered over a year ago on:
link to yesscotland.net
Have the YES camp gone to sleep? Why are these lying NO adverts not being countered. We need something big that the general public can see because NO have made a smart move with the cinema hit.
I think a big part of Yes strategy now is to more or less ignore the No campaign and let the grassroots take these lies and half-truths to bits. It’s a lot more effective to have an “ordinary person” (or the Rev) demolish an argument than Alicsammin’s official minions at Yes Scotland. Yes’ official advertising hasn’t been great so far, and I found the SNP PPB for the election pretty dreadful. But it doesn’t matter. The No campaign has burned itself out. All we need to do now is keep letting our friends and family know what a lot of pish it all is. Don’t boycott the cinema – turn to your neighbour with a smile and explain the reality of the Scottish NHS and its arrangements with specialist hospitals down south (and in Europe – I recall a story recently abouy some wean getting specialist help in Germany paid for by the NHS, for example.) They’ll spend the whole film with that thought nagging at them and hopefully check it out when they get home. We don’t have time to change every mind, but we can sow seeds anywhere. Once those conversations are started, it’s really hard to stop them.
O/T
I was just reading France24 news online, spotted this. Never read such tosh in a while, from the new york times.
link to nytimes.com.
I tested the link, it should work, sorry if I have done this wrong.
Sorry here it is again, should work this time.
link to nytimes.com
Liars will not win
Vote YES
The YES campaign will be reputing the lies. It will not be reported.
To win on lies would be a hollow victory. Just convert one or two people to YES by the truth. YES will win.
If anyone is persuaded by this lying advert, just remind them that NHS England is well on the way to privatisation. They also forget that specialist care includes drug therapies not available here – are they seriously suggesting that stops too?
Very small numbers of patients need such specialist care and England is not the only option. If we vote NO, our entire NHSS is threatened – that is a much scarier prospect. £25 to see your GP for a start. If you can get one at all.
Why wouldn’t iScotland continue to fund treatment for rare illnesses?
I was too angry to comment last night. However after thinking about it this campaign only highlights that they have no troops on the ground. They are still doing a top down sell. They are trying to buy a NO vote.
Keep talking to people. Keep pushing the sites on the Aye Right flyer. Wear the badge and speak to people every day.
The positive mood of a YES ambassador will trump this crap every time.
Thepnr
Wishing I’d taken your contact details at the Wings get together in the ferry!! I must have missed something – not sure what you’re talking about – what’s CH2 ?
It’s Propaganda of the worst kind and has to be highlighted and challenged head on!
link to whitefeatherclub.wordpress.com
6 days to go lets hope YES come out swinging
No are spending a lot of money. Running so many adverts inso many places is not cheap. It will interesting to see what happens next week when official campaigning rules kick in. It seems to me that No are trying to get as much done under the radar as possible before serious accountability is applied.
By keeping their powder dry Yes have saved their cash. I doubt people will remember much of these adverts because in the last three or four weeks there will be wall to wall campaigning. That is when hearts and minds will be swayed.
In relation to the VNB organisation: follow the money; who pays the bills, where does the funding come from.
Surely there is somebody out there who can do a forensic examination of their funding structure?
There must be a smoking gun lying around.
Plagued by BT adverts at the cinema?
Sounds like an excellent opportunity to be brave and show everyone exactly what you think of BT:
“RUBBISH!” “BOO!” “LIARS!” “BOO!”
@Heather Mc Lean, CH2 is Counting House Glasgow Frid 30th
May, bus being organized from Dundee Brechin by THEPNR.
Watching the BBC, Sky or ITV news, you quickly realise that they don’t give a shit about Scotland.
Their main headline is that UKIP has cause an earthquake in British Politics. Really?
This was ENGLISH council elections, but the English media translate that as meaning the UK.
They then jump to the 2015 GE, completely bypassing the Scottish Referendum. There is no mention of Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland in this GE.
You feel utterly powerless and irrelevant watching these bulletin’s. Their actions sum up what this referendum is all about. It is about Scotland become a democratic nation in her own right and not some kind of back water that is attached to northern England.
Ronnie
are you going to the CH on Friday?
I will try my hardest to make it. A few other things happening.
Talking about CH2, did you see what they did to the City Chambers last night? …I left a wee cheeky comment 🙂
link to youtube.com
Here’s another liar.
Tory MSP Murdo Fraser, a Rangers fan, said last night: “I’m sure when Rangers fans realise that voting Yes means giving up the UK, the pound, their British passport, the Union Flag and possibly even the Queen, they will be flooding to the polling stations to vote No in September.”
This was his response to an opinion poll of football fans, which came back with the majority of Celtic and Rangers fans backing Independence.
If there are any St. Johnstone fans here, you have some work to do!
link to archive.today
Why can’t a complaint be made to the Advertising Standards Authority about the lack of truth in this advert?
Off the top of my head, KFC, for example, have been done more than once by ASA for misleading the public over the amount of chicken you get in a bucket.
If a complaint over something as utterly inconsequential as a bucket of chicken can be upheld by ASA, why can’t the disgracefully untruthful content of these ‘Vote No Borders’ adverts be too?
“Why can’t a complaint be made to the Advertising Standards Authority about the lack of truth in this advert?”
For the reasons I’ve already linked to. Political ads are exempt from ASA rules. You can lie all you want in them.
The Vote Nob Orders website has a Contact page where people can ask them questions about anything. I would urge readers to ask them questions to see if they ever respond. Yesterday I asked them if I should hang out the washing because a neighbour said it might rain. I asked earlier what the capital of Angola is. I’m still waiting for an answer. You would think with all the taxpayers’ money pumped into them that they’d have enough staff to answer such simple questions, but not a word back from them. Are the Nobs squandering my money on dinners in expensive London restaurants or what?
@Croopenstein
Another Scottish born Kiwi here, living in Scotland since ’98. What McKiwi says is absolutely true. The Knowledge stuff we sell is generally agritech stuff. Having invented the market for the humble Chinese gooseberry by renaming it the kiwifruit we found we couldn’t satisfy the market, especially off season in the NH. So we sold cultivars and the knowhow of how to grow it, what soils etc to Chile and France. Recently Kiwis were in NE Iran doing the same thing. We sell dairying tech. NZ invented the rotary milking machine. We sell sheep sperm, dairy cow sperm. That sort of stuff.
We have others. They may no longer be manufactured there but Hamilton Jetboat was started in NZ. The Hamilton brothers invented the jetboat so they could have fun on the shallow, gravel, braided rivers of mid Canterbury. And it went from there. McClaren racing was started by Bruce McClaren, a Kiwi from West Auckland. Knowledge we develop and sell. You want a jetpack to go with your jetboat, no problem: http://www.martinjetpack.com. Made in NZ.
Scotland can be like that. Scotland invented so much of the modern world and there is no reason why with our educated population we can’t continue in that tradition.
Off-topic but important:
The consequent loss of many artifacts of the MacIntosh School of Art in yesterday’s fire pretty well ensures that after repair it will become the MacIntosh Museum, students moved to the new building.
I just hope students saved CRM’s work and didn’t take out their transitory graduation show offerings first.
I fear there will be no reconciliation after the we win the vote in September when this kind of blatant lying propaganda is allowed. Bitter Together are bad enough but this takes disgraceful to a new low !.
Tattie-bogle
Agreed. Need to come out fighting. Yes been too fluffy so far.
The reality is, as Stu points out, the NHS in Scotland is already quite separate from the NHS in England, Wales or Northern Ireland. At present my if my doctor wishes to refer me to specialist in London she can do that – but the hospital in London has to agree to seeing me, my Health Board has to agree to me being seen there and my Health Board is then charged by the London Health Authority for me being seen there. Indeed, if was referred within Scotland to a different Health Board my Health Board would be billed for that. So this advert is disingenuous down to its last molecule.
Oh, and as a wee aside, the NHS was actually “invented” in Scotland largely on the basis of one man – Dr Lachlan Grant of Ballachulish. His evidence to the Dewar Committee of 1912 formed the basis of the Highlands and Islands Medical Service of 1913. The HIMS was the ONLY such health service of its kind in the world at the time and it was the only healthcare model cited in the White Paper that led to the setting up of the NHS in 1948.
The entire No campaign is about holding onto Scotland’s resources–a form of payment, if you like. The robber Nobbers are teling blatant lies to ensure they can hold onto those resources. In short, the Nobbers are effectively telling untruths to secure wealth. Surely, on that basis, the ASA can act?
Muscleguy
The “kiwi” grows well in the West of Scotland. I have ten kiwis in my garden and the only problem is how long they become. Unless cut back they need trees to climb up.(I grew them out of seed taken from kiwis bought in my local supermarket).
Ian, I’m a long-time X-Men fan. I read the original “Days of Future Past” story when it was first published in the comic decades ago. I enjoyed the film, although it diverges a lot from the original.
I’m not the person to ask whether a 21st century child would like it. It’s a complex narrative and as usual fairly violent. I wouldn’t take an under-12 to see it, I don’t think. I have no idea how it would play with someone who isn’t familiar with the whole X-Men saga in all its various forms.
Cheers Morag.
I know we live in a what’s in it for me world, but what’s in in it for the NO campaign side. If its something better, then what is it?. I would really like to know.
possible to complain to ofcom they deal with advertising no?
Been giving these adverts a wee bit of thought – we can’t stop cinemas showing them and we can’t complain about them but would it be possible for some Yes people to hand out a wee ” Scottish government Health warning” type leaflet to people going in to cinemas warning people about the lies and propaganda they might be exposed to before the main feature?
The leaflet could debunk the main themes of the adverts and point out a few websites/ sources where the facts could be verified?
Just a thought folks? 🙂
The misleading lying advert is filed on youtube under ‘people and blogs’. This is not true as the votenoborders is connected to the uk government, sponsored by a millionaire and is a political advertisement attempting to mislead the public over the upcoming Independence Referendum in Scotland.
I have flagged it up as such and complained to youtube: it would be fine to tell lies in political campaigns I suppose it does happen, but disabling comments is an attempt to prevent any member of the public pointing out the lies and misinformation.
Can’t a complaint be made to the Advertising Standards Authority to have an untruthful advert removed from our screens, with a follow on apology from No Borders?
Sorry – hadn’t read all the other comments above. I suppose the ASA don’t expect political parties/organisations to lie!
alexicon,
94% of St Johnstone fans support the union according to that link.
The figure is nowhere near that – from the group round me at games at least 70% are YES.
Ian
Are we talking five or six figures?
Apologies for my tardiness. (I assume few read my posts and so didn’t return to mine.) VNB’s cinema ads are shot on a shoestring, video, then computer edited. The actors are walk-on status, therefore basic fee rate. (I’m sure they hope the exposure does their career prospects good – more fool they.)
The cost of running the ads is surprisingly affordable, the cinema screen giving a false impression big size means greater cost. The more days you book the lower the cost. Cost goes up if they are shown before a blockbuster.
I calculate VNB has spent well under £25,000 on three similar ads, shot back-to-back.
My annoyance is, they are shown without any from the Yes camp, or even a rebuttal from Yes supporters. But the cinemas I’ve seen them appear to treat them cynically, booing and jeerinbg, or are too few watching the film to make an impression.
Ian Brotherhood @ 12.32am. Ian, I think that is your best post, ever.
Rev, dunno if you’ve seen this blog but it’s a cracker link to misssymartin.blogspot.co.uk
Funny gal
Aren’t YES Scotland loaded at the moment? I’m sure it would be money well spent to put up a series of ads which debunks this pish, providing the cinemas could agree to run the ads in sequence. I wonder if the two actors are aware of the inaccuracies they are presenting as facts? Employing the same two guys to set the record straight after the NOB ads could create quite an impact.
Dave Smith.
I’m with you on that i will never forget the two faced liers who refuse to debate and throw utter drivel out left right and center. What is it with the jocks??
Tin hats on folks. The trenches are dug and filling up nicely , we are ready and we know it will get worse.
Still it’s nice to know that we are winning. This tactic will not work as the negativity works more on the NO voters. I got the NHS wont exist after indi from a mate who popped on his computer to show me “the proof” and got the shock of his life when it didn’t. He’s a fud and now he knows it. Ask anyone who sees this sh*+t to show you more and watch as they tie themselves on knots when they google the proof.
He’s still a NO tho (did i mention he’s a fud) but he keeps quiet and avoids me like a plague. ( shame really cos we could talke him to a Scottish hospital and fix him)
WE ARE WINNING FOLKS
Dont try to prove them wrong let them try to prove they are right. Its a hoot watching their faces.And that red glow on there cheeks tell me everything i want to know.#
WE are united and WE ARE WINNING
My take on it would be that these are simply an audio visual rendition of the type of nonsense being put forward by the No campaign and as such VNB would claim they are more of a dramatisation and that there is no actual claim that the viewpoints put forward are anything more than hearsay and opinion.
Great news.
NHS Scotland staff have just formed a Yes group:
link to bbc.co.uk
Note the comments from Jackie Baillie referring to these doctors, nurses, hospital porters and janitors expressing their democratic rights as ‘…the usual negative deceit from the nationalists’.
She really is a despicable woman.
There was me thinking RT news was one of the good guys.Had some rubbish at 17.30 about us only having 5.2 years left of oil .Sigh more bloody Scaremongering P*sh.
Ps Rev any chance of setting up yer own radio station for all the uninformed folk and the ones without internet who take these news channels/papers as the gospel.
link to rt.com
Sorry day if the Russians are taking BBC pish at face value. 😉
“The Great Game” has helped shape world history since towards the end of the Napoleonic wars. I would be surprised if RT were not actively involved, as pipeline-politics appears to be the game to play nowadays. That and asymmetric warfare. ;(
link to en.wikipedia.org
Comments may not be allowed on the video, but if you hop over to “Vote No Borders” Google+ site, I’m sure you’ll be able to say something there to *both* of their followers …
That’s right: “Vote No Borders”, that great grassroots organization, currently has two (2) followers on Google+
Next mission from Cybernat Command: somebody have a wee jaunt down to the National Library, see what they can find…
I saw this last night and was very, very upset about it.
…just to point out that the cross border healthcare is much more of a headache in the Borders and D & G – many patients registered in Scotland but receiving care in Northumbria/Cumbria , and yes we do refer patients to tertiary care in England – some services for rarer conditions based only elsewhere for the UK. I’m sure something would be worked out post independence, but its not entirely lies…
“just to point out that the cross border healthcare is much more of a headache in the Borders and D & G”
The situation is exactly the same as for anywhere else, it’s just more noticeable because of the location.
Last night at Cineworld:
– one ad from Better Together
– one ad from the Yes campaign
– two ads from Vote No Borders (“NHS” and “Winning Smile”)
The main reason that the Nationalists give for wishing to separate Scotland from the rest of the UK is that we would all be wealthier. Much of their literature states we contribute 9.8% of all UK taxes but only receive back 9.3% of the spend.
They omit to explain that these are percentages of fundamentally different figures. The only valid way to look at the situation is to quote the figures in pound notes.
So it is not surprising that the SNP Government are keeping very quiet about their own figures for 2012/13. These show that Scotland recieved a staggering 23% more from the rest of the UK than we contributed. In pound notes we generated £53.1billion but we received back £65.1billion. This difference of over £12billion is worth more than three times all the North Sea Oil revenues on which the Nationalists base their promises of our Utopian future.
If we add to this deficit the costs of separation, the trebling of public sector, the damaged and diminished private sector, then our economic future after separation looks desperately bleak.
Scaremongering, bluff, bluster? Mr Salmond these are your own figures!
“So it is not surprising that the SNP Government are keeping very quiet about their own figures for 2012/13. These show that Scotland recieved a staggering 23% more from the rest of the UK than we contributed. In pound notes we generated £53.1billion but we received back £65.1billion. This difference of over £12billion is worth more than three times all the North Sea Oil revenues on which the Nationalists base their promises of our Utopian future.”
It’s also BORROWING, you idiot. It’s not free cash – the UK government borrows it, supposedly in Scotland’s name but actually to spunk it on a load of stuff Scotland doesn’t want (nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, foreign wars, tax cuts for the rich, HS2, etc etc), and then Scotland has to pay it back. It’s not a generous gift from the UK to Scotland, any more than the bank is “giving” you the money to buy your house. It wants it all back, with interest.
Did someone complain to VNB? The video now seems to have been made private 🙂
[…] please read my post, but also take a look at this one by Wings Over Scotland […]
At an Indy debate in Hamilton just now Mobbed feels good people engaging , let the battle commence lol