Later than you think
In an extraordinary outburst on TV last night, “Better Together” campaign chairman Alistair Darling accused Alex Salmond of exaggerating the amount of extractable oil in the Scottish sector of the North Sea by 1,200%.
The former Chancellor (who we learned a few weeks ago thinks the population of Scotland is six million, creating an impressive 705,000 imaginary Scots) suggested that rather than the 24 billion barrels currently estimated by the oil industry – and commonly cited by the UK government – there were in fact just 2 billion barrels left.
As BT are a tad wobbly with numbers, let’s do a quick bit of arithmetic on that.
According to a report in the Telegraph in February this year, the UK’s North Sea oil production “has slumped 30% over the past two years to 1.55m barrels a day”.
If there are 2 billion barrels left, extraction at 1.55m barrels a day gives us a total of (2000/1.55 = ) 1,290 days of remaining production. Or if you prefer, 3.54 years.
According to the same Telegraph piece, North Sea production will continue until “2040-2050”. Industry body Oil & Gas UK last year suggested 2060. Alistair Darling has just told us that the oil will run out sometime around January 2017. Readers can make their own judgements as to whose assessment is more expert, reliable and truthful.
Now Darling is openly taking the urine or maybe the guy is innumerate.
Just after typing the first line I remembered he was Broon’s handmaiden and chosen one to take the Union into the land of Milk and Honey
Strikethough not working for me.
I the media allows this one to go unchallenged, they’re completely complicit in an attempt to deceive the public. I know most of us would say they usually are anyway, but this is beyond the usual nudge nudge, wink wink misinformation.
I said something similar on the Grauniard last night. No wonder Darling left No 11 with Byrne leaving a “there is no money left” note.
There is a wild desperation about Better Together’s negativity now.
Maybe he has seen the polling evidence and now knows that Cameron will spoil any of his staged public announcements.
I am with SS, a deal has been done between Eck and Cameron, and Labour is going to get shafted.
Darling seems to have given up too?
Darling’s credibility will run out long before the oil does. (If it hasn’t run out already, that is…)
No doubt the Truth Team are on the case and will be correcting Darling shortly whilst also publishing the true figures . . .
He reminds me of a double glazing salesman that I once had the misfortune of sitting beside on a plane journey. Hw would say anything to impress. It was the longerst I’ve tried to pretend to be asleep ever.
I knew we should have relied on whisky, or tourism, or renewables, or agriculture, or computers, or finance, or……
He was referring to “proven” reserves. And so just as factually correct as many of Salmond’s assertions.
“He was referring to “proven” reserves.”
Bollocks. He specifically said Salmond had exaggerated the figures by 12 times. Salmond wasn’t quoting proven reserves.
You’ll have to bullshit a bit better than that.
Stroke of luck for the good people of Edinburgh that this innumerate clown is no longer conveyancing property. Of course, unless flipping counts.
Oh it gets better.
link to guardian.co.uk
Just look at the weighting of BT/Westminster comment space and no comments allowed BTL.
Of course who to believe?
link to oilandgasuk.co.uk
This was released almost exactly a year ago and strangely not by the FM. Soooooo UK oil and Gas, Mr Kemp, the FM (ex oil economist). Or flipper Darling the OBR and wee Wullie?
Thinks…
Mmm.
‘Proven’. – Is this the word BT are now using to cover up its silly lies. Proven oil reserves? We assume then that Scotland will not be admitted into NATO, the EU and the fruit traders federation as being ‘proven’ and that Faslane will remain stuffed to the rafters with missiles because that’s also ‘proven’.
We can look forward to many more scare stories which while not necessarily having any basis in fact – which is to say – any empiric value: they will all be ‘proven’.
You wouldn’t think that Westminster would be so interested in such a piddly amount of oil.
Baffled face thingy.
…and all that infernal volatility. Thank goodness it’ll run out so quickly.
Is there anywhere you can go to get an easy breakdown of what makes up various percentages of tax take? Eh, whiskey exports etc and a %of what contributes to the economy. That way people can see what each industry is in terms of the economy at a glance….?
I have lodged a complaint with BBC Trust asking that a retraction is published and an explanation is sent to me by email and hard copy. The BBC Trust information line is 03700 103 100.
I am not holding my breath for a retraction ever appearing but the more complaints registered the better.
If you want an example of totally incomprehensible idiocy on this issue it is probably worth getting a copy of today’s Scottish Daily Express. Worth keeping
All the bitter together apologists are saying he referred to ‘proven’ reserves. That is just not true, he made no mention of proven reserves at any point, nor did he even suggest it.
Bitter together shown to be once again telling bare faced lies to the people of Scotland regarding the oil.
However, here’s the point, Scottish independence is NOT dependent upon oil, that is merely a bonus of independence. Even if there are only 1 billion barrels left, Scotland will still be better off, with the revenue coming to Scotland instead of going straight to the London trough and George Osborne.
Will Bitter together ever tell the truth?? Or will they just keep on lying with silly demonstrably untrue scare stories? Even I am astonished at how silly and ridiculous bitter together’s ‘PROJECT FEAR!’ claims are getting.
Its the PM and the BBC, so it must be true. 🙂
Again from October 2011.
link to bbc.co.uk
They really must think we have short memories.
P.S. Is anyone else thinking of breaking oot the bell bottom jeans and platform shoes? Its got a distinctly 70s feel around here this week. 🙂
OK, by Flipper’s reckoning Scotland could only hope to collect approximately £40 billion in tax before all the oil has gone. Those exploration companies that are currently chucking money at the North Sea, are going to look pretty silly when that happens.
Its just as well that Scottish Enterprise reported in 2010, that “Scotland’s offshore wind industry could create 28,000 jobs by 2020, contributing £7.12 billion to the economy, according to a report commissioned by Scottish Renewables and Scottish Enterprise”.
link to scottish-enterprise.presscentre.com
Only the Herald will possibly pick up on this garbage from Darling and report incontrovertible facts
(a) There is still lots of oil and gas out there – agreed.
(b) It will be around until 2050 because industry experts say so – agreed.
(c) Despite some price volatility it will still generate a shed load of cash – agreed
(d) With independence this would be invested in Scotland – agreed
Darling is clearly unworried about his reputation or the verdict of posterity on is career. Just imagine how historians will write about his role in this period in years to come. He will trashed.
A man who knows in his heart that (a) to (c) above is true but continues to lie is such a shameless way. I find it difficult to understand the embarrassment of a personality like that – he must be doing this for money or his he just the poster boy for the colonial mind.
Currywurst
We know what he was trying to spin but the UK Government doesn’t plan ahead on current operational fields and he knows that and you know that. The figure Salmond used was a UK Government one. Darling was trying to pull the usual “we are all doomed” shite. It won’t wash and increasingly people are seeing this bilge for the pathetic contradictory gob shite it is,
If Darling has nothing sensible to say he should have the common sense to shut the fuck up.
Darling talking about Proven reserves in this way reminds me of creationists claiming evolution is “just a theory”, except in the latter case you can just about allow for ignorance being a defence.
In any case, according to link to scotland.gov.uk p.16, proven reserves are more like 7bn barrels.
If you go to the BP’s Statistical Review of World Energy 2013
link to bp.com
Then they give the UK’s proven reserves as 3.1 Billion barrels at the end of 2012. I wonder where Darling got the 2 Billion figure from.
At the UK’s current rate of production it will run out of oil in about 9 years according to the BP figures. Then again using these figures Russia will run out of oil in 22 years. In fact using these figures the entire world will run out of oil in 52.9 years.
However these figures don’t take into account new discoveries, changes in technology or changes in the market value of oil which would make it more economical to recover from the reserves.
From the report
Notes:
Proved reserves of oil- Generally taken to be those quantities that geological and engineering information indicates with reasonable certainty can be recovered in the future from known reservoirs under existing economic and operating conditions
Reserves-to-production (R/P) ratio- If the reserves remaining at the end of any year are divided by the production in that year, the result is the length of time that those remaining reserves would last if production were to continue at that rate
Darling was the chancellor FFS! HTF can he not know how many barrels left is a realistic amount?
Wow! I hope Darling has told these oil & gas companies that it will all end in 2017!
link to heraldscotland.com
Atypical
Because he has had a nasty attack of the Goebbels?
I confess I have not given this a lot of careful thought, but what on earth do all these ‘nay-sayers’ expect to do when the Scots wake up to reality and vote YES? Do they think their lies, misinformation, manipulation, Unionist-propaganda etc. will simply be forgotten? What drives these people, other than money, obviously?
The only explanation I have is that they do not consider Scotland to be a country. There is only England (proxy for GB/UK etc.) and the scottish region is just that bit in the northern most part of England.
I hate to imagine what will become of our country after a NO vote. I fear it will simply be made to cease to exist.
@Currywurst … you either believe Alistair Darling or you believe the experts in the oil industry.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
link to oilandgasuk.co.uk
link to dailymail.co.uk
the experts all say between 20-30 billion barrels left to be extracted with current technology and there are still over 200 area blocks still to be explored. Somehow with £££££billions recently invested by the oil companies I doubt it is to chase only 2 billion barrels in Darlings fantasy.
The man is clearly looking to change career path from politicis to the comedy circuit once he has recovered from his now impending breakdown.
It is, of course, a ridiculous claim. What was even more concerning (but not surprising) however, was the fact that he wasn’t challenged on it at all.
‘Leader’ of the Better Together campaign? He couldn’t lead a dog along a road.
Darling is a master at this sort of thing, he knows fine well what he is doing but obviously thinks it justifiable in pursuit of a BT victory.
The ‘elder statesman’ tag helps here as well, and the picture is completed by the compliance of the media. I would however be quite surprised if this doesn’t get brought up again, surely even BBC Scotland don’t have the chutzpah to ignore it? Surely?
If darling is talking about Proven reserves and Salmond is talking about estimated reserves they’re talking about different things.
Is darling seriously trying to tell us that oil compabies are investing BILLIONS of pounds into the SCOTTISH oil fields now only to extract 2 billion barrels? at 100 $ a barrell thats 200 Billion dollars. There’s just no way they’d invest 44 billion (As reported by the Herald in June) that’s nearly 25% of what Darling thinks they’l get back.
If this is how good his maths is no wonder he F’ed up the economy.
If you make the lie big enough and keep repeating it then people will begin to believe it.
Thats the BT mantra, and luckily for them they have a huge ace up their sleeves, it’s called the entire UK media. Compliant in not taking Darling to task on this statement, the BBC is completely unaccountable and can do what it likes.
These deliberate lies may not get passed that part of the population that have decided to inform themselves of a few facts, unfortunately there are huge swathes of our population that aren’t interested and only get their news from unionist outlets and this bullshit is actually believed.
@HandanShrimp;
I think I have an idea for question 2 of the poll. Keeping it short –
Darling, fraggle yes?
@Turnip_ghost:
Not strictly what you were looking for, but a very interesting read, which provides a few surprises, and a lot of good information for debating points.
link to realscience.org.uk
@Rev;
What size of fund raiser is required for 2 minute add on Scottish TV overdub Bert and Ernie from the muppets, Darling obviously the well endowed eyebrow one?
Atypical
LOL
Darling had his hand on the wheel when the economy went into the ditch. You don’t have to look far to see what the voters, fairly or unfairly, in the likes of the Telegraph and Guardian think of his elder statesman shtick.
If Darling is right then the stock markets should have plunged today because the UK, to put not too fine a point on it, is fucked.
Should the police not be interviewing Flipper, with respect to his apparent attempt to destabilise the UK economy? Could the BBC in Scotland be seen as complicate, through their failure to challenge him?
I see the hand of McLaren or Ashcroft trying to spin the ‘proven’ excreta uttered by numpty Darling.
Are they just now dried out husks of Labour’s disappearing diaspora, washing in and out with the political tides and totally incapable of further growth or development, bumping along with Torquil and the other haverers as if nothing but flotsam and good for little else.
Have any of these characters got a scrap of personal and professional integrity left?
No wonder the UK economy went down the pan with Darling in charge. The man can even count.
Max
Yes he can but usually in folding ones, expenses and houses.
You can’t fool all the people all the time, Mr Darling. Your bullshit is beginning to glow in the dark!
I agree with sionnach that Darlings credibility will run out long before the oil dose. Has he gone to far this time? I hope that this has the same effect that the mobile phone charges scare story had. I know that some undecided folk changed to yes voters on the back of that one.
Does this read that North Sea & West of Shetland oil & gas potential is doomed in 2017?
link to peakoil.com
I could write something clever. I was going to go for a theme centred around the methods of pseudoarchaeology, tied with peter dale scott’s parallel politics. But in the end, this guy is just a stupid & lazy liar. A sub-prime prophet of pseudo-negativity from bullshit mountain. Using pseudo-maths and pseudo-politics, he is a champion of a Fiat money system, who cannot see the self evident value of a sovereign welfare fund. The only good thing is that this graceless and tactless oaf is running out of wiggle room. His precious status quo is being pulled apart by the tories, with party has been trapped by those very tories, who are dragging labour to the right.
There is no status quo to defend.
@Atypical_Scot @Rev
Scottish TV Add. might be an interesting idea…
link to thetvagency.com
He’s misread Project Fear’s guideline on how many barrels are their for Scotland per head if we stay in the union.
Actually just looking at Darling’s body language in that piece, you can see he is spinning. He doesn’t have the look of honesty in his face when someone is correcting a genuinely wrong figure when is at the 12 x bit.
The fact that he tacitly admits that the 1.5t figure is the value of everything in the North Sea (although that should be Scottish waters as much of the oil isn’t in the North Sea but saying Scottish waters would probably trigger some kind of aneurysm) suggests he knows perfectly well the reserves are 24b.
I see Labour’s poll numbers have fallen again.
link to newstatesman.com
Perhaps we should Alistair Darling to comment on them.
If its going to run out in 2016, why did they extend the maritime borders in 1999?
Severin Carrell’s press release on behalf of Better Together, peddling Darling’s slavers lasted under three hours on the Guardian’s ‘news page’ last night before being tipped into obscurity as part of his ‘blog’. The Guardian clearly did not wish Carrell to take yet another public ‘new erse tearing’ moment as no comments were allowed.
The Independent made clear that they had been given a ‘Government briefing’ on how Cameron is taking personal charge of ‘Better Together’ to ensure the No vote would not be lost while also having a poorly informed dig at Salmond.
The Better Together strategy remains if at first you do not succeed simply keep doing the same thing over and over again that failed in the first place. The give away was the leak that Better Together are looking to split up the ‘tribes’ within Scotland. The starter was the misinformation about the burning of Rangers team bus along with Glasgow Labour’s new found friendship with the Orange Lodge and the attempt to boost UKIP as a force in Scottish politics.
Long may their lunacy continue – we are at the ‘then they fight you’ phase of the process and the SNP 18 month lead in strategy to the referendum is beginning to look an ever smarter move.
suggests he knows perfectly well the reserves are 24b.
You bet he does, but he’s fighting for Westminster to keep control of them.
Can’t have Scotland becoming a wealthy independent country, can he?
The SG needs to continue encouraging young Scots to enter into all the related Oil & Gas & Petrochemical engineering university courses as well as the technical trade apprentices that are now and will be essential in these industries future. It’s all there for them now and the future, great rewards if one is prepared to work hard.
I started to watch Newsnicht last night, where they were supposed to be discussing this. Unfortunately, Gordon Brewer has made this programme totally unwatchable. You learn nothing as he won’t let some of the guests finish a sentence, so that’s the last time as a viewer for me.
BBC Scotlands news/current affairs is becoming like the Hootsman , totally untouchable, but without the awareness that Stv is much more accessible , topical and aimed at the viewers.
In an Indy Scotland, lets hope there are more Stewart Cosgroves In charge of our screens and less of the jobsworths because (its taken a while and numerous second chances) the one thing that came across loud and clear last night was, the viewer is the last person being addressed in that debacle of a programme.
O/T
Just had a wee thought about the supposed leak from John Swinney’s office of the paper on proposed plans for the Energy market in an indy Scotland….
Could this info have been sourced or filtered out the door by our friends in Cheltenahm?
Given they have access to all email traffic in the UK would it be past them to ‘secure’ information like this and drip feed it to the BBC or am I being overly conspiratorial?
Gaavster
No you are not.
Expect more of the same
The only figures Darling cares about are on his invoices for speaking engagements – typically around the 10k mark.
Imagine spending 10 thousand quid to listen to this belter? Some folk must have money to burn right enough.
I believe he can do conjuring tricks and make Scotland’s beneficial economic analyses disappear up the same dark place from which he takes his own figures.
Quite some trick if you are stupid enough not to realise what he is up to.
Why is it every time I see this man talking on TV “Baseball Bat” springs to mind 😉
It must be remembered that Darling has constantly said that after the Referendum, and if the vote is No, the whole of the UK will vote in any further powers on devolution, though we know the reality is there will be no more meaningful devolved powers.
Therefore it doesn’t matter to him that what he is saying is misinformation. All he needs to do is ‘persuade’ voters to say No in 2014. Labour in Scotland is too focused on defeating SNP to see the danger of the consequences of what Darling does. All they can see is that it might stop the SNP.
Of course there is the humiliation for Labour; success and actions from the SG highlights the scale of failure from Labour over the last 40years to do anything constructive with the revenues from oil and gas.
The oil Companies are not so concerned about the politics in the UK, their decisions are commercial.
We need to have control of our resources, to plan for the future, no matter what.
If we create jobs then the tax revenues pay for the social needs of Scotland. I personally believe Labour has been happy to ‘shout from behind the barricades’.
I read a Labour activists page on all Labour’s achievements but he failed to recognise that it was not a lasting legacy, the Tories were tearing these down and their was nothing Labour could do, or was even committing itself to do, to reverse damage.
The status quo condemns us to cycles of Tory or Labour, creating the are biggest uncertainties of all.
Hitler and Goebbels knew the value of the big lie and Darling was no doubt well trained in propaganda during his time as a Trotskyist so perhaps it is not surprising that he uses this technique.
See link to en.wikipedia.org
There two size of billions: a thousand million, 1,000,000,000 and a million million,1,000,000,000,000. Vaguely recall something about US and UK sized billions.
Maybe Mr Darling was talking in big billions, and so his 2 big billions will equate to 2000 wee billions!(I think). And if the First Minister has been talking in terms of wee billions then he is cautiously understating the the potential wealth of the oil and gas fields.
Then, I recall vaguely, that a barrel of oil is 38 US gallons, and 35 UK gallons.More scope to confuse Mr Darling and he has a past record of a poor grasp of figures
Sorry O/T
As others have asked , what about T.V adds ? .
I am up for chucking in some money to bring wings to a wider audience .
To paraphrase another Labour numpty, Paul Sinclair (the one who scripts Lamont’s FMQs rants) “Does anyone think Darling’s an arse?”
Why is it every time I see this man talking on TV “Baseball Bat” springs to mind.
AD has already had three strikes (Northern Rock, Financial collapse, House flipping).
He should be out.
Yup, Darling only deals in proof. He’s already ‘proven’ that an independent Scotland might be refused EU membership, that an independent Scotland could face tax hikes, that an independent Scotland conceivably may have to pay more in mobile phone charges, and that, in any case, Scotland itself just might have been extinguished in 1707.
I really don’t know how much more proof we want.
Maybe WoS should ask this question in the poll;
Which is the bigger number
a. 24,000,000,000
b. 2,000,000,000
c. Both are the same.
That way we can separate out the nationalists from the unionists and also Scottish journalists.
With this failure that rose without trace, Scotland is not his country but Great Britain is. He has no interest in Scottish achievement unless it’s within the framework of Westminster and Union Jackery, so it can be called a British achievement. Scotland to him is an archaic term only to be referenced in musty history books or to be seen in the context of a region, North Britain would be a more comfortable term for where he resides. That is why he was willing to head Better Together, he has no love nor empathy with Scotland as a nation or culture so his trampling over both would come with ease.
With this ideological bent anything that is seen to be of good fortune to Scotland must be downplayed to the Scots, the Scots must be lied to time and time again for the benefit of Westminster. And with the black stuff Darling’s faux arguments takes us back to the 1970s with ‘it’s running out so why bother’ or ‘it’s virtually worthless so what’s the point’, same old same old, and that is where you not only see the contempt for ordinary Scots he has but also the sheer arrogance and ego that believes people should him and ignore what the oil industry actually reports.
Darling is a fine embodiment of what is wrong with Labour, past and present, and how they destroy the self confidence and divide the people so they become subservient to the Party that says they will look after you from cradle to grave. What they actually mean is they want to control you from cradle to grave, keep you poor, keep you underachieving and keep you divided and keep you angry against what will benefit you.
THIS MUST STOP – VOTE YES!
The former Chancellor is not good with finance and numbers. Despite using the services of an accountant (reimbursed by the tax payer obviously) he managed to claim the costs of a property he was renting out while he was actually living in grace & favour accommodation funded by the tax payer.
He was forced to pay the money back after initially disputing the claim of wrongdoing. Why do people believe what this man says!
Why do people believe what this man says!
Do they? Perhaps the WoS poll can shed some light on that.
I’m sorry but where did Darling say actual figures beyond trying to slate Salmond’s?
Darling claims that we only get the tax on the profits. What about licencing fees? What about royalties, which are paid per barrel, regardless of profit or loss? What about all the taxes paid by employees who work in the industry? What about VAT, etc.?
With every little slip, the inevitability of David Cameron having to take part in a live debate with Alex Salmond looms. There is no other credible opponent. Moore has already been skelpt by Nicola on STV and Brown and Darling are stuffed and Blair is probably too expensive these days.
I can’t say I think much of the so called leak, early release more like.
The supposition that we would sell energy and that the energy prices would remain high in rUK to encourage their own renewable industry is hardly rocket science. It is not that they would be subsidising our renewables as such just that we would be able to supply at the going rate. As the rUK is in the market for energy and as closest available source at comparable price their would be a market just as we would for butter and lamb.
@Macart
Thanks for the link
link to guardian.co.uk
This is an unbelievable piece of nonsense by Severin Carrell.
He talks about the data on the strength of the Scottish economy (GDP 15% higher than the UK average; tax take £1700 per head higher than the UK average etc) as if its some kind of fantasy future that has been dreamed up by AS and will never happen.
In fact those numbers are the ACTUAL numbers from GERS for 2011-12, so they already have happened.
Its one thing to dispute forecasts (even when you’re on shaky ground), but its quite another to reality-deny things that have actually already happen and are published in government reports.
As for Comical Ali Darling, he does struggle with numbers (keeps referring to the population of Scotland as 6m for example). Scary to think how he got to be Chancellor.
Seasick Dave says:
24 July, 2013 at 9:06 am
You wouldn’t think that Westminster would be so interested in such a piddly amount of oil.
Baffled face thingy.
Hmmm!! Well going by Alistair Darlings assertion, the UK Westminster government is most DEFINITELY up Sh*t creek without a paddle given that they are relying on the oil reserves to pull the country out of the mess it’s in. All the more reason for us Scots to jump ship, cut our losses , go it alone and take our chances as an Independent nation before the UK ship completely sinks then!!! 😉
After all, we are managing to balance our books with the limited pocket money we get from Westminster under John Swinney’s stewardship and we do have other resources at our disposal, renewable energy, water, whisky, food industry, tourism, production of over 28% of the EU’s PC’s and tablets to name but a few of many!! Time to say a big loud YES .. if that’s all the oil thats left then it’s no great loss!! AS IF!!!!! Mr Darling must really think the ship we’re on is a banana boat sailing up the Clyde!! What an absolute insult to the intelligence of the Scottish people!!
@HandandShrimp;
Aye, the small aspect of electrical distribution that seems to be regularly omitted is loss over distance due to resistance and energy conversion to heat in sub stations and cables. Norway cables are fine and well but there will be a significant loss compared to a Scottish supply, and since the rUK shortage is in the main during peak rate, I don’t see the Norway hub selling it at a discount.
Profile: Severin Carrell is Scotland correspondent for the Guardian. He has worked as a home affairs, environment and politics correspondent for the Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday, and as a senior reporter with the Independent and Independent on Sunday……………..
……………… and cannot take criticism when he makes an “erse o’ himsel”, hence no comments are allowed.
To be honest, this really needs to get jumped on. Surely, some law lord has to say enough is enough! This is blatant lie telling by a politician to his own people. Surely, there must be some kind of warning that could be issued to Darling and Co to say, that if they continue, then they will be charged with contempt of the land!
Anywhere else; in your job, at another person, then this would lead to a sacking or a charge raised on the grounds of slander. How can they continue to get away with blatant lie-telling? I just don’t get this!
Surely, the Scottish Government can get a law passed in our parliament and courts. To do so, even if the BT scream from the rafters, all the SNP have to say is, ‘it’s for the benefit of the people. If you are not happy, call our bluff, and we’ll see you in court. If proved that you have lied in court and the people, then get ready to step down and resign from office. We dare you!’
There has to be something to stop this nonsense.
BBC Scotlandshire scooped this story way back in December 2012.
The rest of the spoof media is now catching up with the real broadcaster of Scotlandshire!
“Scotland’s” Oil Will Be Gone in Two Years
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
Sorry This is off topic but is there an Actual email address for the Truth Team?
Clicking on the little envelope on the labour site has led me a merry dance and I thought I’d just ask them the questions I don’t know the answers to on labour policy post 2014.
seems the route to asking the truth team a question is a secret!
Your link ” a tad wobbly with numbers” doesn’t go anywhere but the homepage?
“Your link “ a tad wobbly with numbers” doesn’t go anywhere but the homepage?”
Look again.
Yesterday’s Guardian
“Alex Salmond criticised over North Sea oil claims”
Alistair Darling, the Labour former chancellor and head of the anti-independence Better Together campaign, said: “For Alex Salmond to treat us like fools by deliberately confusing the wholesale value of oil with the amount we would actually raise through tax is fundamentally dishonest. He should withdraw the claim.”
LOL.
**Bashing head against brick wall**
link to guardian.co.uk
This is Darling who claimed not to know that RBS were about to run out of money in a couple of days, till Goodwin knocked on his door. That he didn’t see the 2008 crash coming till it smacked into him. You’d think as a former psuedo Marxist he’d have known it was inevitible.
Where does his alleged acumen and gravitas come from? What did he ever do? Apart from ruin the lives of workers, homeowners, savers etc. He’s a political bottom feeder. Pond, barrel, expenses, sphyncters,….take your pick. The man has zero credibility!
I think Blair J should make an exception regarding the moratorium on ad hominum attacks, and declare open season on Darling. It’s all very well occupying the moral high ground, but sometimes you have to just get down and dirty.
Many here are more expert on the O&G industry than I am, but as far as I know, oil companies class their reserves as proven, probable and possible. Even if you strike oil in commercial quantities, many factors, such as finding the extent, quality and pressure of the reservoir, viscosity of the oil etc means that it takes a lot of drilling and money before you can put a ‘proven’ lable on your reserves. Hence this is almost always a very much smaller number than the ‘probable’ reserves.
If you want to buy an oil company, you are likely to be more interested in the probable figure, because this represents the potential future production. The value of the ‘proven’ is more or less known, whereas the ‘probable’ may contain lots of hidden surprises, both nice and nasty – which is why you need first class geologists before you lay down the money.
Without a doubt, Darling knows the distinction – or he most certainly should, if he doesn’t. Even if he had been up front about speaking of proven reserves only, he also knows full well that behind those proven reserves lie much larger figures for probable and possible, and that a good proportion of the latter two will become proven in due course.
So it’s about as misleading and scaremongering as you can get….
Politicians like Darling make the UK a laughing stock across the world. Economists in other countries must laugh themselves silly that such an innumerate arse was once in charge of the UK economy… and he has been replaced by another innumerate arse.
Surely, the Scottish Government can get a law passed in our parliament and courts. To do so, even if the BT scream from the rafters, all the SNP have to say is, ‘it’s for the benefit of the people. If you are not happy, call our bluff, and we’ll see you in court. If proved that you have lied in court and the people, then get ready to step down and resign from office. We dare you!’
Yes, because what the Yes campaign needs right now is for the SNP to pass a law restricting free speech. What could possibly go wrong with that?
@Doug Daniel
I the media allows this one to go unchallenged, they’re completely complicit in an attempt to deceive the public. I know most of us would say they usually are anyway, but this is beyond the usual nudge nudge, wink wink misinformation.
Sadly it is par for the course. These are the days in Scottish politics, when a political thug from SLAB, can accuse the best political presenter and interviewer of being biased, and she automatically gets the chop. It is also the period when the PM of the UK can announce there will be a referendum on the EU, and the media in Scotland do not even attempt to discuss its possible effects on our referendum next year.
On Darling: he is just another Neo-Con these days.
Angus
The purpose of the The Truth Team is to tell you what to think not for you to ask difficult questions
@ JLT
There is precedent for politicians being held to account for making false statements during elections.
link to en.wikipedia.org
I am no lawyer so have absolutely no idea how bad it needs to get before this route becomes available.
I think you would struggle to make a case on the basis of this specific statement by AD, as the whole thing is a discussion based on a forecast anyway.
There may be some other cases where blatant untruths are told however where it may be more applicable.
I’m sure others on here will have more knowledge / experience of how that could work.
It’s laughable if it weren’t all so very serious. How arrogant and out of touch does an organisation have to be in order to create “The Truth Team”?
You’d think after all the expose’s of the #projectfear rubbish, they’d be looking at trying something different, but after all it is really true, that there is NO positive case for the Union and fear is all they have.
they’re trying to trash Scotland’s oil and gas industry which is a massive bonus to a Scotland free from the Union’s greedy grasp.
Remember the hassle Alex Salmon received from the MSM, on his response to a question on legal advice about EU membership, after the Andrew Neil interview?
Now this joker spouts blatant lies and not a peep from the MSM.
So much for their British sense of fair play.
Jiggsbro says:
Yes, because what the Yes campaign needs right now is for the SNP to pass a law restricting free speech. What could possibly go wrong with that?
—————–
Nah…sorry, don’t agree with you on this one, Jiggsbro. If that was the case, we would have every Tom, Dick and Harry using that as an excuse in the courts.
Both sides were warned by the Westminster Select Committee (or something like that I believe) not that long ago – all the Scottish Government needs to do is run to the Select Committee and place a complaint.
This has to stop. Project Fear is getting worse, and yet no one, from any official body is stopping it. I think the SG need to start raising this as an issue. If BT mump about it too loudly, then it is only going to register with the Scottish people that something isn’t right, and then they might just dig deep themselves, which might put the fear back into the BT Team. That would be BT’s real fear …the Scottish people looking for the answers themselves, and then getting angry once the real truth surfaces. Alistair Darling would be flogged for his blatant lie telling!
Well, if Darling is not a member of the Truth Team, does that prove he’s telling lies (Yes, we can all use twisted bollocks logic if we want to). Goodness me, this is desperate stuff. So is there a precedent for geological surveyed oilfields disappearing into thin air?
Oh, and if BT are reading this, I’ll give you a tip – I’m in the “Shout ‘Fuck Off’ and hang up the phone” Tribe!!
link to bbc.co.uk
BP chief executive Bob Dudley; “After some years of decline, we now see the potential to maintain our production from the North Sea at around 200,000-250,000 barrels of oil equivalent a day until 2030.”
Some more arithmetic… taking the lowest figure of 200,000 B/d x 365 x 17 years = 1.241 Billion Barrels from BP alone till 2030.
Then consider if there are only 2 billion barrels left, then what are Shell, Total, Chevron, Talisman, Exxon-Mobil etc etc. doing in the North Sea? ( link to en.wikipedia.org )
Nah…sorry, don’t agree with you on this one, Jiggsbro. If that was the case, we would have every Tom, Dick and Harry using that as an excuse in the courts.
If what was the case?
Funny how Darling and his team at the Ministry of Truth believe that oil is negative for Scotland BUT oil is the reason for Westminster to keep Scotland in the Union and therefore oil is good for Britain.
In this former chancellor’s world two plus two equals five. Because to him that is the truth. Scotland’s oil is bad for Scotland and its people, but Britain’s oil is good for Britain and its people, to him that is the truth.
I am becoming increasingly convinced that the actual drivers and coordinators of Project Fear are within BBC Scotland, not in the Better Together office. Project Fear’s main avenues of attack/communication channels are Reporting Scotland and GMS. The half-baked blether-together etc. schemes are smokescreens fronted by numpties and apparatchiks.
I think we have to try to draw attention to who is running BBC Scotland’s News and Current Affairs output in our poll. As such I would recommend using something along the lines of the ‘John Boothman’ question suggested in the ‘Let’s Do A Thing Thread’.
The time is overdue for the Scottish public to be made aware of who is calling the shots re BBC Scotand’s indy-ref related output, and of his political background (e.g. Chair of Labour Students 1981) and allegiances…
Two plus two does equal five, for sufficiently large values of two.
Darling is much worse than that.
(Hint: 2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8, then you round everything to whole numbers.)
I can see a TV licence non-payment protest on the horizon. There is growing support for one. Someone well-kown just has to take the lead on this and the snowball could grow rapidly.
A non payment of TV Licence campaign is needed – the existence of Newsnight Scotland as the Propaganda Wing of Project Fear and the abject sycophancy of the coverage of the recent birth in London must persuade many to join in.
Someone well-kown just has to take the lead on this and the snowball could grow rapidly.
You mean like the Tommy Sheridan led ‘Can pay – won’t pay’ anti poll tax campaign ? Who would stick their head above the parapet with this in the knowledge that the BBC and Westminster establishment would come out all guns blazing to destroy their character? It’s a good idea, but I can’t think of any big personality who’d be willing.
You don’t need a TV licence to view catch up services which is how I now view most of the telly I watch. Bye bye TV licence.
Anyhoo, I’ve pinched your Stag Night cartoon, Stu for my wonderings about how long Tory donors with put up with the tenth rate, one trick, Labour hack ponies at Project Fear: How Long has the Gorbals Goebbels Got?
Roddy
Just been onto your blog and saw this, which I cannot comment upon.
Standing for the moment that their ‘grassroots’ campaign has a national regional organiser (sounds more astroturf than grassroots to me), we got to meet the man himself, only to find that Craig Murray has all the charisma of a second rate Betterware salesman.
Is that Craig Murray, the independence supporter, ex Ambassador to Khazakstahn and ex negotiator on sea boundaries who wants to work for the SNP on this, during the two year sorting out period post referendum?
Or is there another Craig Murray?
@Luigi @Neil Macgillivary
Re a TV Licence campaign, I’ve been suggesting the setting up of a Scottish Broadcasting Trust Fund for a few months now, with a lot of positive feedback but as yet no volunteers with the expertise required.
If people paid collectively into a transparently managed Fund (maybe even just a bespoke paypal account?) then that would quickly draw attention to the numbers of people involved/supporting, a higher media profile and more political leverage (e.g. asking for an OSCE/ODIHR media monitor).
So as to avoid the possibility of legal challenges, the Scottish Broadcasting Trust Fund will only ask for TV Licence equivalent payments to be made by those who think they don’t actually need to pay for a TV Licence (e.g. as only watch non-live broadcasts on-line) or for future (not currently due) TV Licence payments. If anybody wanted to ignore these criteria and pay their currently due TV Licence fee into the Scottish Broadcasting Trust Fund that would be up to them…
I’m glad I read through this first. Otherwise I was going to post that clown Darling doesn’t even know the population of Scotland, but it had already been covered by @IvanMcKee
It really beggars belief that they get to spout this stuff unchallenged.
If he was saying this to me, I would be coming back with – you don’t even know the population of your own country, that makes everything you say highly questionable and open to ridicule, you arse!
@Ivan McKee
Its a beauty isn’t it?
Any roads up (just for Morag), if you’re looking for some links other than the UK oil and Gas which I stuck up, here’s a couple of other beezers which make a complete nonsense of Darling’s ludicrous claims.
link to scdi.org.uk
For this next one, click on the link oil and gas strategy which will take you to a downloadable PDF.
link to hie.co.uk
Mr Darling has nowhere to hide in our shiny internet era.
“http://www.scdi.org.uk/pi/2013/2011-2012Oil-Gas-Survey(May2013-SDI-SE-SCDI).pdf”
Don’t know why that link’s buggered, if you click it you’ll have to manually add the “.PDF” at the end.
[…] by the media? When the head of the official campaign against independence, in the exact same day, goes on national television and spouts massive lies with big fecking bells hanging off […]
If you did a copy and paste and included the parentheses you would get an error. Just copy within the quotation marks and it works.
Glad to help out
I’ll get ma fur coat
BTP – Thanks, getting my Murrays confused. It’s Rob Murray – corrected.
@Rev
Yep, takes you to HIE page, but you have to use the link on the page which instantly downloads the thing. Bit of a pain, but at least you can have a read off line.
Roddy
You should put a contact e-mail in, just in case etc.
Seems I am being a sober wee boy scout Panda today.
I’ll just open the bottle of chilled rose and revert to type.
BtP
“Darling doesn’t even know the population of Scotland”
Ooh, I’d forgotten about that. Edited in.
Given his experience and much of the comment above, I wonder if Alistair Darling suffers dyscalculia?
“Inconsistent results in addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Poor mental math ability. Poor with money and credit. Cannot do financial planning or budgeting. Checkbooks not balanced. Short term, not long term financial thinking. Fails to see big financial picture. May have fear of money and cash transactions.”
It does seem consistent with his past? He does seem to like [increasing his] money though so I may be wrong here.
Media lies, are not just told in the UK
link to youtube.com
The sad thing about, these ramblings of Alistair Darling, and many other fabrications, is the press coverage they get, no matter how out landish the claim it will always receive plenty of column inches and air time.
Therein lies the REAL problem, not only is the YES Camp fighting the BT lies, its also fighting the MSM, who have BT’s back covered, with regards to availability of info., albeit false info.
If we’re to defeat, the BT movement, we must also defeat the MSM.
@Andy-B
“If we’re to defeat, the BT movement, we must also defeat the MSM.”
I think we will defeat BT, but IF we don’t it will be mainly due to the MSM.
The BBC (and in particular BBC Scotland) is the keystone of the MSM in Scotland.
The BBC’s only political/accountability weakness as far as the Scottish public is concerned, is the way it is funded, i.e. it depends on enough punters in Scotland (and elsewhere) continuing to pay their TV Licence Fee.
With over a year to go until the referendum that means that everybody in Scotland currently paying for a TV Licence will have to opportunity to decide whether to renew/stump-up, or not…
Double plus good beachthistle.
Big Push?
Apparently there’s only 10 years before the whisky will run out; assuming of course demand from China & India doubles and all the distilleries make volume projections based upon exactly what’s currently in the cellar.
Of course, this is complete rubbish but it’s the same inept logic used by Flipper Darling to boast how quickly Scotland will run out of oil.
I’ve never heard of any politician in any country puff about how quickly their country will run out of their own natural resources as if it’s something almost he can be proud of.
Here we go.
link to scottish-enterprise.com
Came at from another source. You can now choose to download or just view.
Re someone well known to speak out about the BBC Derek Bateman may just do it, now he’s ‘retired’.
I reckon he has a fair few reasons to be less then enamoured with BBC Scotland. But I suppose it depends if he’ll still want to freelance ….Blair Jenkins on the other hand would certainly fit the bill and knows only too well who’s who.
Alabalha
He will be retained on a part time contract until a some time in the future, tied to the BBC.
That is how it is how it is done with people with sensitive info. He may have also had to sign a [pretty strong confidentiality agreement also.
A shut the fuck up, until we decide you have sweet FA to tell anything against us ,clause.
I had one imposed on me a few years back.
There is always a way around them.
Like many on this site, I have been of the impression that the constant scaremongering and fabrications of Project Fear was to keep Scottish revenues in Westminster to pay for vanity projects, keep a permanent seat at the ‘big table’, protect the self-interests of Lib/Lab/Con politicians, and all the other ‘stuff’ we’ve previously highlighted.
Although I’m not a natural ‘conspiracy theorist’, the more absolute unchallenged nonsense that those representing the union come away with, the more I’m convinced there’s a, well, conspiracy.
On the transfer of sovereignty to Holyrood, it will be incumbent upon Westminster to transfer all documents, briefings and intelligence relating to Scotland. I’m now of the opinion that there are numerous ‘smoking guns’ being kept from the public domain – Dennis Healey has already confirmed that his government misled and underplayed the quantity of oil, what else has been hidden and where else have we been misled by the governments before and after his, including the roles played by Messrs Brown and Darling?
It’s therefore entirely possible that there is documented evidence of significant oil and gas deposits under the Clyde, in the North Atlantic and under Scottish soil; that there is further damning evidence of why a nuclear arsenal is in Scotland; confirmation supporting that Scottish assets and resources have continually been sacrificed for EU/UN concessions/acceptance; ratification that rUK could be bankrupted as a result of the potential instability of sterling (and subsequent tax hikes required in rUK); ‘tapping’ by GCHQ of Scottish citizens…
I’m now generally of the persuasion that the McCrone report is only the tip of a very, very big iceberg and if there is indeed a hidden agenda, the BBC is complicit by its continued kow-towing to its unionist paymasters.
The TV licence is and always will be the BBC’s achilles heel. There have been always been small, manageable numbers of non-payers. However, big non-payment campaigns have been thwarted by MSM compliance in hushing things up, dealing with “dissidents” quietly. I cannot say for sure, but I think the last big non-payment occurred in N.Ireland at the height of the troubles – all hushed up of course. The last thing the BBC want is for news of a big non-payment campaign. The big game-changer now is the internet – they would not be able to hush it up. What a terrifying prospect for the British establishment.
In the meantime, these are the kind of twisted stats being posted by a suspect false flag over on the GH. Possibly an employee of Vital (sic) or a political research for the Tory party. Look at the last paragraph where they finally got riled. This was after five similar posts. Mr Little doing a great job of rebuttal. Jezerna Roza, Slovenia alasdair galloway • 20 hours ago
?
“you do realise that what Scotland gets is a POPULATION share of North Sea oil revenue” – You do realise you do not know what you are talking about. I clearly said I was talking about Scotland’s geographical share of oil revenues (as estimated by the Scottish government’s projects GERS and SNAP). So I will repeat what I said before:
In the last 20 years, there were 13 years in which Scotland got from the UK MORE than itsGEOGRAPHICAL share of oil revenues in the form of higher public spending than the rUK (Barnett).
In the last 20 years Scotland’s total GEOGRAPHICAL share of oil revenues was £133 billion, of which Scotland itself spent £129 billion for its extra public spending (higher than the rUK – Barnett), and Scotland gave £4 billion (3%) to the UK.
I made ALL my calculations with Scotland’s GEOGRAPHICAL share of oil revenues. I hope you do realise that Scotland spends about 10% MORE than the rUK for public spending in ALL years, and that that money has to come from somewhere. And it does not come from Scotland’s onshore taxes. In the last twenty years (1992-2011), each year Scotland spent from £4.3 to £7.5 billion MORE than an equivalent 5.3 million population in the rUK (adjusted for inflation). On the other hand, Scotland’s GEOGRAPHICAL share of oil revenues was from £1.4 to £12.7 billion (adjusted for inflation). So it is quite simple in a way. In some years, Scotland’s GEOGRAPHICAL share of oil revenues is higher than Scotland’s extra Barnett money, and in others it is vice versa. Perhaps I should state also that I did not take into account that in most years Scotland collect a bit less than the rUK in onshore taxes – taking this into account would make Scotland’s actual net ‘contribution’ to the UK even lower than £0.2 billion per year on average over twenty years. Anyway, the total outcome for Scotland is very close to ZERO. Westminster certainly has not ‘stolen’ any vast amounts of money from Scotland during the last 20 years.
But go on, continue treating your compatriots like stupid fools. It is a very honorable job, tricking people to vote Yes rather than telling them the truth so that they can make an informed decision. After all, this is what the Scottish government has been doing for a long time.
@dmw42
“BBC is complicit by its continued kow-towing to its unionist paymasters.”
Don’t disagree as such with “Unionist paymasters”, but last year around £310,000,000 (£310 million) of BBC’s funding was paid/provided by TV Licence Fee payers in Scotland.
Alaistair Darling (and the rest of the Westminster unionist posse) is not fighting to have Scottish oil controlled by Westminster, he’s fighting to keep his salary, expenses & all the other trappings being an MP brings. He doesn’t give a shit about Scotland. It’s just a cash cow to him.
He will say & do pretty much anything to keep his livelihood even if it meant lying from his back teeth and hoodwinking the public.
If these unionist MPs were faced with the choice of handing over Westminster to Portugal tomorrow or risk losing their seat at the trough then I’m sure they would be touting the case in favour of Portugese rule.
For me it’s that simple. Darling & co don’t give a shit about independence or the people of Scotland, they care only for themselves and the lifestyle they leech off the back of honest people.
I find Alistair Darling to be one of the most repugnant politicians of this era.
I’ve never really considered myself as being a nationalist but by fuck is Alistair Darling driving me to it!
@rabb
In total agreement… I have posted the very same comment on a number of sites over the past weeks. There are MPs and Councillors who are defending their livelihoods. Worried only about continuity at the trough.
Firing people: I recall how people behave at the 100k+ salary level when their job is threatened… They will do anything to retain it. They will literally fight to the end.
There are a list of people ‘under threat’ due to Independence. Darling is at the top.
@BTP
He took redundancy so won’t be on any current contract.
Not sure what you did for the BBC? and what you had to sign? Kevin Marsh (who also took redundancy) at one time the Editor of the Today programme, got a whole book out of the Hutton affair so not sure what exactly you think people are signing.
I never worked for the BBC
I worked for a N American company and it is pretty much standard procedure for shutting up people with sensitive information whom they need to get out of the way for whatever reason.
I am sure that the BBC are way up there, considering that ALL their FACES are contractual and on self employed status. That is to say no recourse to public dismissal court cases.
Just to refresh your memories of flipper Darling (I am going to refer to him as flipper from now on) and his creative accounting
link to edinburgheye.wordpress.com
If Alistair Darling charges £10k for after dinner speaking it would be interesting to know how much he has drawn from BT for expenses because he doesn’t pay for anything out of his own pocket. Would this info be detailed in HoC register of interests I wonder.
@BTP
That’s just it not all the ‘FACES’ are self employed, D Bateman was a staff member.
Albalha
Are you sure?
Because that would explain why he lasted so long.
@ beachthistle
Can’t for the life of me remember where I heard that figure, (£310 million), the other day.
But the rest of the comment was that BBC Scotlands budget was something like £84 m.
Naebad eh !, put in 310 and get back 84.
@rabb
Alaistair Darling (and the rest of the Westminster unionist posse) is not fighting to have Scottish oil controlled by Westminster, he’s fighting to keep his salary, expenses & all the other trappings being an MP brings. He doesn’t give a shit about Scotland. It’s just a cash cow to him.
He will say & do pretty much anything to keep his livelihood even if it meant lying from his back teeth and hoodwinking the public.
Spoken from the heart Rabb. I cannot disagree with your sentiments. After all Darling does not even know the population of Scotland, that is how much he cares about the nation. Your second sentence sums up the whole modus operandi of the No campaign. That is why I believe Salmond gets so much abuse from them. He is a major threat to their continuing careers, perks, and privileges in London. I reckon they have never been able to work him out. Why is Salmond not like us, you can almost hear them say?
Bawheid it is hundreds of millions for the take
2 million tele and £10o+ tax?
just calculate 8.5% of their tax rake from the UK accounts.
For argument leave out our share of the revenues from the syndiction of BBC World etc etc
@BTP
Yes, there are quite a few at BBC Scotland, particularly in radio, Bill Whiteford, for example, is also on a staff contract, and there are others.
The reason is they started out as Radio Producers then went on to do presenting shifts. And of course when they started out as producers Staff contracts were the norm, of course that’s no longer the case. And given the benefits of these early Staff contracts, re pensions then it’s fairly obvious why people didn’t give them up when they became presenters.
Albalha
I believe all the news team, faces anyway, are contracted and most are actually Party members?
@Luigi
“The last thing the BBC want is for news of a big non-payment campaign. The big game-changer now is the internet – they would not be able to hush it up. What a terrifying prospect for the British establishment.”
Agree 100%, hence my idea for an internet-based, transparent/visible-to-all ‘Scottish Broadcasting Trust Fund’, with the idea that that the money is held in trust and not given to “TV Licensing” until the Scottish Broadcasting Trust Fund’s Trustees agree that BBC Scotland are clearly demonstrating even-handedness re their referendum coverage.
I am willing to be one of the interim/start-up Trustees – I am a former UN and UK government official (was responsible for £70+million portfolios/budgets) and am currently chair of a Scottish charity. I would want a lawyer, an accountant, a media monitoriing expert/academic, an e-funding expert and/or an IT geek plus a high-profile figure/politician – although happy to give it a go without the latter to begin with…
@BTP
Is that last comment a wind up?
@Baheid
Got £310 million figure by dividing £3.6 billion from Hansard reference below by a Scottish population 8.6% share – which is probably not up-to-date so not saying £310 million definite but won’t be far away…
Hansard, 22 Nov 2012 : Column 700
Maria Miller: There must be recognition of the fact that the BBC received £3.6 billion in licence fee in this year alone.
I was feeling a bit mischievous on Sunday, so I posted this to Archbishop Sentamu’s article in the Observer. I couldn’t let him bang on about a “living wage” as if he had come up with the idea himself, and as he failed to mention what is happening up here, I thought it was my civil duty to educate the metropolitan set.
One reply I got, complained that London is half full of foreigners. It got as many likes as my comment did.
————————————————————————————————
I’m sorry, but I had to laugh at this article and many of the comments btl.
I think English society needs to take a very long, hard look at its self, and ask if the American model is one you really want to follow. Today in Westminster, it is becoming increasingly difficult to separate the parties. There is barely a micron’s difference between their positions now, as Labour makes a mad scramble to out nasty the Tories. Take a look at who first introduced the bedroom tax, for example. There is also an odor of xenophobia hanging in the air, as a political culture which stigmatises ‘foreigners’ is enthusiastically assisted by the MSM. England appears to be heading to a one party system, espousing a neo-conservative ‘soft fascism’ that appears to appeals to middle England.
Here in Scotland, the Scottish government supports a living wage. Perhaps this is why the Establishment hate the SNP so much? They dare to challenge the status quo.
link to snp.org
P.S. I am not a member of the SNP, but I am able to support their raison d’etre. Scottish independence.
Vote Yes in 2014.
Sorry, I haven’t read all the comments. (wee embarrassed smiley)
But…
The situation of Scotland is so schitzophrenic!
UK’s got plenty of oil&gas, but nationalist Scotland’s got none and it’s running out tomorrow, or the day after. The only way to keep the oil&gas flowing is to be “better together” with rUK, and keep the tax revenue flowing to Westminster.
Down sarf the world is being told the good news about North Sea oil&gas. The news gets distorted along its way up to Scotland. It’s all doom and gloom up in Scotland. According to Alistair Darling, the oil will run out three, maybe four days from independence. Exploring old/new fields with modern technology is just too difficult.
Doomed, yer all doomed.
I’m glad our Finnish Baltic Sea oil fields turned out to be an internet joke. We’re much better off without any oil&gas problems as a small independent country, we couldn’t possibly handle it!
Not like we’ve handled our forest industry, heavy machinery industry, shipbuilding, high-techy industries (Nokia is a small town in west central Finland, the company started with paper, expanded into wellingtons, tyres, television sets, and finally into mobile phones in the 1980s.) (I’ve got Nokia wellies like most Finns, and my car has Nokia tyres, like most Finnish cars.)
Maybe Finland might’ve been even more successful if it had remained a part of Tsarist Russia, of even Sweden. If independence is such a bad, doom, gloom thingy. (Ha ha ha ha ha!)
We’re independent, and we make our own mistakes.
Finland is not a perfect country but we’ve got a lot of things right. All Finnish kids “hate” school but score top marks in PISA. Everybody of course complains about the “high” taxes but my friends in the USA, Australia, Britain, who earn about the same pay more income tax. Brackets or something. Finland doesn’t have to finace WMD, nuclear subs etc. etc. so we have more money to spend on the citizens.
We’re a pathetic wee independent country (GPD and GINI much higher than the UK) because we’re not “important” or at the “top table”, the table where the empireist… ehm… colonial… ehm… post-colonial… ehm… OK! Just ANYTHING that England can feel good and big about. Maybe wank looking at the pink areas of a world map c. 1901. Ah…Ah… Aaaaahhh!
England isn’t doing too bad in cricket in this Ashes series. I first got into cricket in the early 1990s in Australia, when Oz was the best team in the world. They’re pretty crap now, so the mediocre English team is trouncing them. Interesting.
This is news to me. We’re about to sign up a rig in the UK on a 5 year contract and have another there already working beyond 2017. The contract doesn’t say anything about workovers or P&A’s. I’d better let the sales guys know.
Albalha
Nope
“I think Blair J should make an exception regarding the moratorium on ad hominum attacks, and declare open season on Darling.”
I don’t think he needs to, to be honest. Even on the Better Together sites people are moaning that he’s a crap face to front the campaign. Between him and the other “head people” at BT who act like 16 year old trolls on Twitter, taking the high ground is the only way. Sink to their level and Jenkins would be getting sewage on his suit!
BTP and Albalha
There is without question a close relationship (in all senses of the word) among senior journalists and managers at BBC in Scotland and the North Branch of the London Labour party. This is not even in doubt, is it?
I think so Tony.
I have enough contacts in the BBC, over the years to know that contracting out faces was on the books when the BBC had Queen Street set up as their Scottish Parliamentary base.
I believe, no names, no pack drill that under Boothman the only way to keep your job is to be in the team.
Someone on here said it was the BBC News & Currents who were managing the Slab anti Yes campaign and by extrapolation John Boothman.
I am coming round to believe the same thing.
BTP: I’ve cleaned up all (I think) your “Bateman/Boothman” clangers. BE MORE CAREFUL IN FUTURE. I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO.
ta
I DON”T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
apols etc etc
Boothman GOOD etc ( seriously )
apologies
maybe, why not?
Do you honestly believe that the only reason they report verbatin press releases from No-Better Together as real news, is just because don’t have the resources top check if it is?
Who cut the budget and why was it was so severe in Scotland and in particular the News budget, especially at this once in a lifetime event?
So why are they parachuting in, part time mind you, a safe London Jock?
All answers should be written on the back of a £20 note and sent to the Rev Stu.
I really need to come back to Glasgow and reinfiltrate their club. Tell me Albalha, is the special club in Botanic Crescent still operative. Long time since I was a member. maybe they have found another wee exclusive.
@BTP
Okay to answer the question.
Not all are on contracts and I doubt if any of them are members of a political party. I have said previously there’s an undoubted Unionist bias but there’s also a problem of staff shortages, mainly in radio and inexperienced people, both presenters and producers.
@TonyLittle
It seems this goes around and around and around. Boothman is not a hands on journalist, he’s head of News and mainly cares about TV. He does the job Blair Jenkins used to do. And yes he’s a Labour man.
I can only speak for Radio but the idea that all the senior radio journalists are Labour party folks is just silly. As I have said again there is a Unionist bias. I don’t think you really get just how few senior people are left at BBC Scotland.
I absolutely agree about the shortages Albalha and find it angering that they are paying them big buck whilst they cut the real people who make the clock tick.
The feck up with Sally, “we’ll get it back 2007” Magnusson and James Naughtie’s parachuting in, to sort out the rebellious tribes up Norf, tells it all.
I’ve heard it all now, you really believe BBC NCA is managing the SLAB anti-Yes campaign?
C’mon Albalha. Really?
Beachthistle,
Very interesting suggestion. Another option (that could be linked to your idea) would be to simply stop watching live TV in protest and stop licence payments and/or pay equivalent fee to be held in trust.
If people feel strongly enough about BBC bias and manipulation, are they willing to sacrifice the dubious pleasure of watching live TV for a while? A bit like a hunger strike! I wonder what the impact would be if several thousand people did this.
Personally, I could give up TV today, but I may have to deal with some “domestic” opposition! Willing to test the waters though.
Luigi, just stop paying it!
No idea about the club I left BBC Scotland in 1999 and headed to London.
So, from what you say, the theory goes that John Boothman deliberately planned to make all the cuts in half the time allocated to support the Labour Party in Scotland and ensure the delivery of a NO vote. And remember the savage cuts were mainly in radio. The recent work to rule has put a halt to any more redundancies for the time being.
I have said over and over there’s a Unionist bias, I have also previously made the point the head of Millbank would never have been the spouse of an acting minister as in the case of J Boothman some years ago. So I am not simply saying it’s due to shortages but that’s part of it. Newsdrive, for example, now has only one presenter for a two hour programme, there’s no way it can be anything other than thrown together.
As for Naughtie, it smacks of what’s always happened in Scotland. Be it producers or presenters they’re always deemed ‘better’ if they’ve been South. As for him it’s like Wark and Adams, getting older they seem to fancy a wee job in Scotland and sadly the management in Glasgow fall over themselves to secure their ‘talent’. Is it cos he’s a Unionist I don’t know.
Albalha
I never said that Boothman planned and implemented the cuts.
the management style of the BBC, classic hierarchical organisation ( MIilitary, Civil service, TUs and the Met Police plus loads more) all operate under a vertical reporting bureacratic system.
Eventually that leads a culture of conformity to the norm and a don’t rock the boat attitude/mentality. It is not needed to be written down, just imbued in the types of people who get on and climb the Monkey Puzzle tree.
The further the monkey climbs the tree the more he shows his arse so, how to square that one? Easy jus make sure that they are subordinate layers of bureaucracy to filter out what the “bosses” don’t “need” to know. FFS even the DG, now demised had not a clue about Savill and the brouhaha in the daily press! He didn’t need to know and his job was in fact not to need to know. His job was to oil Westminster and ensure that the licence fee always went up and trebles all round at the Groucho Club with other political movers and shakers.
Boothman slips in, has the brief to downsize BBC News etc and nobody wants to know how he does it so long as how he did it does not become a public issue.
So, the lunatics have taken over the Asylum.
I understand that Boothman was read the Riot Act recently; nopt about bias but about the lack of confidence in his culture of fear within. See it became a public issue?
Anyway I hope that all the good and honest BBC people who have to swallow their tongues in order to pay their mortgage out a paypack under personal pressure. We will need then come post 2014.
You do know what Boothman’s political background is, don’t you?
@juteman
Really, what? I do not believe the whole News and Current Affairs department is working for the Scottish Labour Party and its anti-YES campaign.
I have said many times there’s a Unionist bias to the reporting. I also wonder why Blair Jenkins doesn’t speak out.
I’m not much of a fan of any of the major players on either side, who knows who knows who.
@Luigi
Yup, v good idea to just start with a simple, straightforward campaign, along the lines of
“Stop watching live TV to stop having to pay for BBC propaganda against your own interests”.
If those who legitimately stop paying the TV Licence Fee by doing this could then let it be known (for instance via Twitter, Facebook, Wings, etc.), so the media could get some numbers, then that would be a start…
@Beachthisle.
I think we’ll defeat BT
Its a nice idea, the thought of non payment of the BBC TV licence as a sign of protest, or as others have stated, a sort of fund club (withheld cash) where people can pay the equivalent of the TV licence, in the hope the BBC see sense, with regards to parity on coverage of the Ref.
Of course if enough people took this action, it would be virtually impossible in my opinion for the BBC to prosecute everyone without drawing negative attention, as to why people were witholding their payments.
It is one possible road to go down that would draw attention to the utter unfairness of the BBC coverage of the YES Camp, and there drive for independence, I actually think it might work, if a website were set up, and info spread on social networks.
I see no other way to bring the BBC to heel, and their lying propaganda,could be the YES Camps undoing.
The BBC in Scotland is run by, presented by and owned by the Labour party.
@juteman
Okay if that’s the case why doesn’t Blair Jenkins speak up? He was Head of News after all. If it is the case wouldn’t you expect the YES campaign to say something particularly with their evident inside knowledge? And don’t you think players on both side of the debate know each other pretty well?
And for those who say B Jenkins can’t then surely he could pass a wee dossier to someone who could?
Albalha
BBC London may be Tory, well they are in power but Scotland is Labour period.
BBC London may be Tory, well they are in power but Scotland is Labour period.
He may well have done re B Jenkins but how much traction is in AS, the SNP and B Jenk saying that it is biased.
Open season for the MSM and BBC?
Just wait till post 2014 and a yes vote.
I cannot wait.
Sorry if I have been a bit OT but I am sickened by the BBC in Scotland and how they manipulate our news agenda. Goebbels would be bot astounded and in awe as to how well they have followed his pecepts
Am I imagining it or is there an increasing number of non-Scottish “reporters” on BBC Radio Scotland these days? Why are we landed with these people? Are there no young Scottish men and women capable/available to read the news?
The people I’m talking about can’t even pronounce Scottish place names–Ayrshire has become Eshah, Cairngorms has become Kengoms, etc. My pet hates are Martin Smedley and Rachel Connors but there are many more. Is there a political motive behind this trend?
On a separate topic how sad to hear a once respected broadcaster boasting that they have seen a document STOLEN from the SG.
Dinner time now
@BTP
You ask how much traction there is in a former Head of News at BBC Scotland who then went on to Chair a much lauded Scottish Broadcasting Commission speaking out about bias at BBC Scotland? Why he left, the impact of the savage cuts, the role of London, etc, etc…….
I’ll wager it would get a good deal of publicity. However I realise on here I’m probably in a minority of one, that’s fine.
@Seanair
Surely a range of voices is representative of Scotland in 2013? I quite like the Canadian Rachel Connors, think she delivers quite well.
However, they are of course just throwing anyone in front of a microphone, on that I’d agree. And to think it’s not so long ago BBC Scotland still had trained continuity announcers.
Back in my talk with my pro-Union best friend, they brought up the mysterious conundrum of why Eck refuses to debate Darling after the latter threw down the gauntlet. I was so stunned by my intelligent friend actually suggesting Eck might lose in a debate against Alistair Darling that I couldn’t immediately respond, though my David Silverman-esque expression of utter disbelief probably said it all. I made that face a lot during our talk (as, in fairness, did they.)
I simply cannot understand how they could vilify Salmond for woolly accusations of racism and xenophobia, and yet throw their lot in with the man who is ultimately responsible for this entire financial crisis, in addition to the litany of other disasters and ethically wicked legislation he was complicit in.
There is only one way to defeat an institution as powerful as the BBC.
SOLIDARITY
Unless we all (or most of us) are up for the fight, it would be a pointless gesture.
Alastair Darling as head of BT should be up against the head of YES Scotland, which is Blair Jenkins. The correct opponent for Alex Salmond is David Cameron, and he won’t want to be made a fool of either.
Albalha, I may have got Rachel Connor mixed up with someone else but I’m still beeling!
Albalha
I leave to you the last word
With respects.
@Seanair
I’m wrong, not you, I’m thinking of Sarah Tomb/Toombe not sure of the spelling.
to all, a propos all bureaucratic systems of oppression.
A problem only becomes an issue if affects the hob nobs. After that it must be killed, buried, ignored rubbished and then forgotten about.
@Luigi
I’ve started the ball rolling on twitter re a simple #NoLiveTVNoLicenceFee campaign, to see what the reaction is.
If enough of us can’t give up watching live TV for a year (or at least tell TV Licensing that we will) in order to make a sizeable reduction in BBCScotland’s/Boothman’s propaganda budget, then I have underestimated how much my fellow Scots want independence!
Blair McDougall seems to be having a touch of the Calmans on Twitter. Just provided an excellent coda to my blog How Long has Gorbals Goebbels Got?
@Rabb (3:38pm)
Of course they are. Labour councillors etc at a local level want to get elected to parliament (either Scottish or UK). Remove Westminster from the equation and the number of highly paid jobs they can get drastically reduces. A rough guess by the time you add on staffing allowances etc would be that Scotland becoming independent would remove about £3-4m just in salaries from the Labour Party in Scotland. That’s without having the prospect of ministerial promotion, potentially becoming important in a UK government etc taken into account. Labour is absolutely populated by career politicians. They’re far from alone in this, but Scotland becoming independent fills them with horror, because that’s their career path absolutely fecked. Careerist used to be the ultimate insult to anyone wanting to stand for election in the Labour Party, now they’ve nothing but that left. That’s why they no longer represent people, just getting elected.
Same thing goes with the BBC in my opinion. Their biggest paying jobs and the most exposure they can get is in London or Manchester. It may not be deliberate, but that is going to colour your opinion even if you don’t mean it to.
OT but I just switched off listening to Marcus Brigstock on R4. What a lot of stereotypical racist shit from a comedian I normally like. The fake scottish accent, an idiot guide to history, reference to scottish diets (good coming from marcus given his dietary history, the formally 25 st fat bastard) and certainly a sneery, brit nat perspective, what a fecking let down. Maybe the show improved but after 5 mins of this shit I had to stop listening. It was just too painful to listen too , Just another english liberal upset the jockos want to leave them. An utter, utter travesty of a programme from someone who should know better.
Agreed
Just finished watching Scottish News Raymond Buchanan finished his report stating that the Scottish Government would be publishing their “so called” prospectus for independence in September – they just can’t help themselves.
Sneddon \
Listening to The Archers (NO I AM NOT) but wurrafuk
better than Marcus Brigstock and his broadcast
Dcanmore says:
outstanding,
this should be published in the msm
if only
If you get your T by Virgin Cable can you ask them to not send BBC programmes?
Last Thursday after the BBC’s own poll that showed we weren’t happy with their content, Kays topic of the day was, What Do You Want From BBC?.
I asked- K with an E – by text “is there any register of political affiliation for current BBC political journalists”, she had a wee choke when reading it out, then said she wasn’t aware of any! I was amazed it got through.
We should point out that we don’t get the oil revenues at the moment.
Nertheless our economy is working rather better than the larger UK one on a budget which represents rather less than the revenues we send annually to Westminster.
I think the time has come target some of our press one by one and destroy them
We could start with the Daily Express
BTP Things are indeed bad when the soddin’ archers are better than anything 🙂
SNEDDON
What a load of recycled crap substituting for real news.
The Archers are a better projection?
Smiley thing
If anyone really thinks that BBC Scotland is not driven by an anti Independence anti SG agenda and that this can be changed in the next 14 months then I think that their heads really must button up the back.
The only credible answer to their antics are to ignore them and pursue our objective of Independence through the social media and sites such as this. There really is no other way insofar as media communication is concerned.
Ignoring the rats will upset them more than us. I start off the day by totally ignoring them instead of sending rants to Robertson and that idiot Kaye. Makes a much more pleasant start to the day!
This is worth a swatch – features a heartwarming image of young Darling relaxing with a female friend and some cuddly toys, one of which is wearing a kilt –
link to redmolerising.wordpress.com
@Seanair … yeah, recently BBC Scotland website ran a story on a new sci-fi series ‘Outlander’ to be filmed in Scotland this year, the star of the show is actor Sam Heughan from New Galloway. Of course the BBC put New Galloway in Dumfriesshire in the report when it is actually in Kirkcudbrightshire (clue is in the name FFS). They don’t even bother to check if the sodden place is in the right county! Also in the Imperial War Museum, London, they have a collection of flying boat photos taken from Wig Bay and Stranraer during WW2, apparently in Ayrshire, all listed as such. Of course it should be Wigtownshire. Pisses me right off to see such obvious geographical mistakes.
I think what he meant was that his eyebrows would run out of colour by 2017.
@ianbrotherhood
Is that Susan Deacon with Darling in that picture, do you think? Looks a bit like her.
OT, but I just read that Allison Hunter has died. Touching obituary in NNS. I’m pretty upset.
One more person to remember on 18th September next year.
Alison Hunter
I concur entirely, Morag. A rock of the independence movement (with a sense of humour)
This is a great piece to email round contacts. It clearly demonstrates the lies of BTG.
in a short easy to read format.
So circulate far and wide
Fucking old poof
“Fucking old poof”
I’m so glad we all had that nice talk last night about writing as if an undecided voter is reading.
I’ve just watched the newsnight in question and AD doesn’t say this. Has it been cut or have i missed something.
Gaavster & Bugger (The Panda)
was the Scottish Governments Energy Report leaked by the SG or was it made public against their wishes?
If it’s an email leak there’s easy ways around that!
I’d like to know if I can nominate the above Ali D picture for the annual ‘Plook on a Plinth’ award.
Because he looks like one.
@Morag
I only met Allison Hunter during the last Scottish election when she was working in N Sturgeon’s HQ. I was taking photographs for the Stirling University Political Archive, she couldn’t have been more accommodating, allowing me to snap away inside their offices.
Btw, in comparison the Labour Party campaign HQ’s were at best hostile to any photography.
@Jeannie-
Susan Deacon?
Good shout. Could well be. It’s certainly not Margaret Curran or Johann Lamont.
(Of course, we could ask Margaret Curran, but she’s far too young, doesn’t remember the 70s at all. And we could ask Johann, but she’s done a Lord Lucan on us.)
O/T – some self-deprecating humour, a sprinkling of BT propaganda and lashings of anti-Scots racism, “The Brig Society” on iplayer link to bbc.co.uk
@ianb and @jeannie
See what you mean but there’s an eleven year gap between Darling and Deacon, so not sure.
Just out of interest, how much would you have to be offered, in hard cash, to sit through an hour of Darling speaking?
(Remember – he charges folk approx £10,300 to turn up and give a spiel.)
We’ve all got our price, but even right now, skint as I am, it’d have to be, ooooooh, at least £50 to sit tight and keep shtum for a full hour…and I’d still feel really hard-done-to. (Second-thoughts, make it a ton, and travel-costs, and some luncheon vouchers.)
G H Graham@8.48pm
Drunk in charge of keyboard 🙂
@Albalha-
Hmmm.
The plot thickens.
Who is that mystery woman?
G H Graham@8.48pm
“Fucking old poof” ? Really? Mrs Darling thinks he’s straight, guess that’s why she married him.
Personally I think he’s a fanny – and that’s something really useless – well it is to a fucking old(ish) poof like me.
Perhaps you need to lay off the drink a bit G D. Rabid homophobia is not attractive.
Nice try Stu.
Darling was giving an unscripted interview and he made a comment off the cuff, which I agree is an exaggeration.
Salmond on the other hand was making an analogy based on a false premise, in order to fool the average Joe who may have been listening.
I am glad BT finally picked up on the SNPs “Wholesale value” misinformation (since they have been peddling that one for months). They had clearly timed the intervention to piddle all over the SNPs Oil paper (which it did spectacularly).
“Darling was giving an unscripted interview and he made a comment off the cuff, which I agree is an exaggeration.”
An exaggeration from zero, to be precise. Salmond quoted the oil industry’s figure accurately. His exaggeration was nil. Darling turned it into 1,200%.
“Salmond on the other hand was making an analogy based on a false premise”
You may wish to look up the word “analogy”.
@ianb
He had a brief marriage in his youth before marrying his second wife, so maybe his first wife?
@NSTST
How do you know it was unscripted? Not based on a press release?
Alex Salmond says….
Actually it was an official Scottish Government paper that produced the figures and Alex acting official capacity as Scotlands First Minister. Darling, who is accountable to nobody for BT can spin what he likes. The UK government has not stated there is only 2 million barrels only Desperate Darling.
We should not mix what the SNP or Alex States in their own opinion versus the official position of the Government.
Darling is really saying our government is lying not just that Alex is lying. It is an insult to us all and should be considered as a diplomatic incident.
@NSTST-
‘Darling was giving an unscripted interview…’
Huh? What’s that then?
@NSTST-
Okay, maybe you’ve already been asked, and answered, but please, do tell – what does NSTST stand for?
I hope you’ll tell us – you wouldn’t want us all to start guessing.
Or would you?
I knew Allison Hunter, she was a lovely lady, a great worker for independence and a passionate Scot. She will be remembered next year when we win the right to self determination. May she rest in peace.
mac at 3.26 seems to imagine that we can be persuaded to believe that oil revenues are the only revenues that Scotland contributes to the treasury and provides us with a long and idiotic post predicated on this
Obviously none of us work, run businesses, run companies, grow food, produce power etc etc etc and and we don’t provide to Westminster on a per capita basis the second highest level of revenue of any UK region
Why don’t we just knock this “volatility” red herring on the head right now by producing a chart showing the average price of a barrel of oil every year since 1970
O/T (but after 200 comments that should be cool). Who is this Terry Kelly character on the Herald threads? I have put my toe in the waters over there and started posting the odd comment- particularly when some of the more pernicious myths are peddled as fact. I questioned his assertion that independence would suddenly result in foreigners everywhere (and indeed why that would necessarily actually be a bad thing even if it were true). The guy pounces on my comment but completely misses the point I made…
Karamu,
He does it all the time. Don’t bite!
@karamu
Who is this Terry Kelly character on the Herald threads?
Karamu – eventually almost all of us ask this question. He’s a Labour councillor.
@NSTST
“I am glad BT finally picked up on the SNPs “Wholesale value” misinformation (since they have been peddling that one for months). They had clearly timed the intervention to piddle all over the SNPs Oil paper (which it did spectacularly).”
Salmond was using figures that the UK government used. How is that misinformation? More to the point, are you happy to support a campaign that is relentlessly negative, to the point where campaign workers call it “Project Fear.” Also, why do you oppose Scotland having all the powers that small European countries have, such as Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Belgium, Republic of Ireland etc? Finally, what is the substantive, positive case for the Union we are always being promised?
Major events & real world oil prices (2008 $/barrel)
link to switchboard.nrdc.org
@karamu-
Terry Kelly’s got his own space in ‘Zany Comedy Relief’, top of page – because he’s a belter!
link to councillorterrykelly.blogspot.co.uk