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Labour and Brexit: clarity at last

Posted on September 23, 2019 by

Labour just had a vote at their party conference to decide on their Brexit policy. On a close show of hands, the party voted not to have a policy on Brexit until after the next general election, and – we promise you we’re not making any of this up – delegates immediately demanded to have another vote to overturn that vote.

A few minutes later, Momentum activist Cathleen Clarke and former Tony Blair adviser John McTernan appeared on Sky News to sort it all out for confused viewers.

Good luck in the next few months, everyone.

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    1. 23 09 19 18:56

      Labour and Brexit: clarity at last | speymouth

    129 to “Labour and Brexit: clarity at last”

    1. Del G says:

      Corbyn: expert fence-sitter.

    2. Wulls says:

      Jesus H Christ.
      That is hilarious.

    3. galamcennalath says:

      As I just said on the previous threat …

      ” Looks like Labour have just thrown in the towel for the upcoming general election. “

    4. handclapping says:

      Corbyn, Johnson and Swanson; surely the UK is blessed to have leaders of this stature at such a challenging time.
      /* IRONY OFF*/

    5. Sharny Dubs says:

      Good grief! Couldn’t make it up

    6. jimnarlene says:

      Well that clears it up… Not.

    7. CmonIndy says:

      McTernan said Corbyn is a leaver. Therefore Corbyn is a remainer. Perfectly simple.

    8. HandandShrimp says:

      FFS!

      They are like someone who waits to see who won the match and then declare support for that team. Never sees their team lose.

    9. Colin Stuart says:

      Holy God; no wonder they’re losing what following they ever had – nobody knows where they’re going, except up their own left trouser legs.

    10. Ian McCubbin says:

      They don’t agree and worse dont know.
      Good luck in England.
      Actually talking to more folk from England
      on west of Scotland who moved here to be away from the non democracy down south.
      They want us to leave the UK any way we can, non violently I may add.

    11. Darren (D Doc) Docherty says:

      Brilliant answers. Aahahahaa…
      Clear as mud. They can’t fail to fail.

    12. mogabee says:

      Oh, ah, I see!

    13. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      The great thing is that there are so many Labour supporters who take umbrage at the mere suggestion that they have no clear policy on Brexit.

    14. Dr Jim says:

      Vote Labour, we’re stupid and we hope you are too
      Vote stupid, we’re Labour and we hope you are too

    15. Effijy says:

      Rev, you must have switched off today.

      You previously ran a wonderful article on McTernan
      Who seemed to be the world’s biggest political loser.

      Whatever he said is going to happen in politics just doesn’t
      Have a snowballs chance in hell of happening.

      For the rest of the evening Corbyn will be s Remainer
      Tomorrow is a new dawn where maybe, perhaps could be,
      Possibly, if, in other words we might know what Labour’s
      Position is.

      If they added in custard pies in the face their conference
      Might have more gravitas.

      For any Labour supporters out there vote Labour and get
      Tory Government again for the umpteenth time!

    16. galamcennalath says:

      We know what Johnson will be having to drink tonight … a nice bottle of vintage Dom Perignon.

      Tories will be smelling a landslide.

    17. HandandShrimp says:

      Mad stuff, but we still have the Tory conference to come. Cue massive uncosted promises and free magic unicorns to everyone…except any Tory MP that questions the numbers…they get the magic boot.

    18. Robert Peffers says:

      Cornyn has sat on that same fence so long he is frightened to move in case he gets a skelf in his arse. Thing is no one has told him it is a metal bar fence.

      Everything in the short term changes so very fast at Westminster yet nothing in the long term ever changes.

    19. starlaw says:

      I’m just a bit confused as to the great Labour plan. After we leave the EU there will be a GE which Labour will win so then Labour will have negotiations with the EU about a new deal, and when Labour are ready they can hold a referendum on whether Britain should remain or leave the Union that we are no longer in.
      Think I shall mull it over in a quiet corner.

    20. Terry callachan says:

      Labour Tory and Lib Dem are all turning in on themselves .

    21. One_Scot says:

      That just sums UK politics up in a oner. We really do need to get out soon before it’s too late.

    22. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Nothing new to see here.

      You name it and Labour has always been both for and against it.

      Find a Labour policy you do not like and up will pop labour man, who will assure you that once the “real” Labour people take the helm, they will sort it all out for you.

      You will just have to be patient … some fools waited all their lives, some are still waiting.

      Maybe The Labour Party will beat them to the grave.

    23. Doug says:

      League of Gentlemen characters? The couple who keep toads?

    24. Auld Rock says:

      Will Labour never learn, most of this country is mildly left of centre and will never support a Corbyn (Momentum Led) Government of the extreme left. Anybody who has any doubt go a look-up what happened to Michael Foot when he let the Unions and Militant pull the strings. Manifesto for 1983 GE was dubbed the longest suicide note in history only to set straight by the late John Smith, how different the picture might be today if JS had survived.

    25. Auld Rock says:

      Will Labour never learn, most of this country is mildly left of center and will never support a Corbyn (Momentum Led) Government of the extreme left. Anybody who has any doubt go and look-up what happened to Michael Foot when he let the Unions and Militant pull the strings. Manifesto for 1983 GE was dubbed the longest suicide note in history only to set straight by the late John Smith in1992, how different the picture might be today if JS had survived.

    26. Bobp says:

      And people still vote for these lying fence sitters?. Unbef-inglievable

    27. Bobp says:

      Auld rock. Always had my doubts about john smiths heart attack. He defo was’nt an establishment choice.

    28. Colin Alexander says:

      At a GE, would voting Labour or SNP in Scotland stop there being a Tory UK Govt ruling over Scotland yet again?

      No.

      Unless the SNP sought a mandate to declare Holyrood the supreme parliament for Scotland in preparation for independence. Or sought a mandate to dissolve the Union.

      Would they do that? LoL.

    29. galamcennalath says:

      starlaw says:

      After we leave the EU there will be a GE

      I suppose Labour are assuming that Brexit is delayed for their ‘plan’ to make sense. If Johnson delays he’s mince. Stabbed by either this own party or Farage’s. I suspect, as a survivor, Johnson will try to avoid delay followed by GE.

      However, there are two other imminent possibilities.

      Firstly there is a ‘no deal’ crash out in which case, as you point out, negotiations would not be to consider a Withdrawal Agreement!

      Secondly, Johnson gets the EU to agree an alternative WA, AND he gets that through WM then the UK leaves in an orderly fashion. So the same applies, the WA agreement negotiations have been and gone.

      Labour’s plan only makes sense after delay and election. I think puts us into quite different territory!

    30. robertknight says:

      What happened McTernan? Where’s his pointy purple hat covered in moons and stars and his gold topped wand? I hardly recognised him!

    31. Dan says:

      Looks like some kind of System Error Code. Has anyone tried switching the Labour Party Off and On again…

    32. Dan says:

      Ahh, now I recall that Labour and McTernan had some kind of IT issues in the past with the Murphy Bot 900.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg49Ysjyads

    33. McBoxheid says:

      Terry callachan says:
      23 September, 2019 at 7:22 pm

      Labour Tory and Lib Dem are all turning in on themselves .
      —————————
      That about sums the purpose of the unionist conference.
      To promote your faction within the party, within the unionist movement at the cost and exclusion of all others.

    34. McBoxheid says:

      So its wait and see from the wait and see branch of british unionism.

    35. McBoxheid says:

      Dan says:
      23 September, 2019 at 8:24 pm

      Looks like some kind of System Error Code. Has anyone tried switching the Labour Party Off and On again…
      _________________-
      Nah, its easier letting them switch off their own voters….

    36. Essexexile says:

      To be fair to Corbyn, if I was terrified of losing the support of ‘out of touch’ Metropolitan remainers and ‘stupid, racist’ working class socialist leavers, then I’d sit in the middle like a gormless lemon too.
      We can now only hope that his plan works and he becomes PM. Surely then enough Scots will want to cut free of the madness.
      It’ll mean iScotland having a bankrupt and dangerously divided neighbour but, well, you can’t always stop people getting what they want.

    37. jockmcx says:

      A nursery rhyme…soon to be updated!

      There was a crooked man, and he went a crooked mile,
      He found a crooked sixpence against a crooked stile;
      He bought a crooked cat, which caught a crooked mouse,
      And they all liv’d together in a little crooked house.

      from wikedipedia,

      the poem originates from British history,
      specifically the period of the English Stuart King Charles I of England (1600–1649).

      The crooked man is reputed to be the Scottish General Sir Alexander Leslie,
      who signed a covenant securing religious and political freedom for Scotland.

      The “crooked stile” in the poem was the border between England and Scotland.

      “They all lived together in a little crooked house”
      refers to the fact that the English and Scots had at last come to an agreement,
      despite continuing great animosity between the two peoples,
      who nonetheless had to live with each other due to their common border.

    38. defo says:

      What if they don’t actually fancy holding Cameron’s parcel when it explodes?
      People will be looking at whoever’s in power to sling the blame at.

    39. Iain mhor says:

      Thats thon riddle of the gatekeepers isn’t it?
      Err.. right, one always tells the truth and one always tells lies… Naw both always tell lies, err naw. One always gives the opposite answ… Errr, What was the question again?

    40. kapelmeister says:

      The Labour Party is AWOLOR.

      Absent Without Leave or Remain.

    41. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      For those who still think GRA is not a significant issue

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1176217287264808960

      I’ll vote ‘yes’ in any independence referendum

      But the SNP can kiss my Holyrood and Westminster vote goodbye if this is where we’re at.

    42. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      For those still to eat their irony ration for the day..

      https://twitter.com/NickKehoe01/status/1176026022266966016

    43. Ronnie says:

      Even Mystic McTernan clearly realises they’re fucked…

    44. Hamish100 says:

      23 September, 2019 at 9:41 pm
      OT

      For those who still think GRA is not a significant issue

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1176217287264808960

      I’ll vote ‘yes’ in any independence referendum

      But the SNP can kiss my Holyrood and Westminster vote goodbye if this is where we’re at.

      Eh ? Confused methinks you are. This is at a meeting in Brighton, England. Call the Police.
      Blaming the snp is stupidity

    45. Joe says:

      Good evening folks. Hope you are all doing fine. Ive seen a lot of stuff on twitter on the ‘gender’ issue and id recently watched a very, very informative monologue on the broader subject. So i thought id share here. Sorry its off topic.

      Youtube: Jordan Peterson – Political Correctness and Postmodernism

      Title doesn’t do it justice, but its very relevant.

      Anyway, cheers.

    46. Joe says:

      Good evening folks. Hope you are all doing fine. Ive seen a lot of stuff on twitter on the ‘gender’ issue and id recently watched a very, very informative monologue on the broader subject. So i thought id share here. Sorry its off topic.

      Youtube: Jordan Peterson – Political Correctness and Postmodernism

      Title doesn’t do it justice, but its highly relevant.

      Anyway, cheers.

    47. Joe says:

      Oops sorry for double post:)

    48. mike cassidy says:

      Of course I know where it’s happening.

      And as those affected are reporting, the police are doing nothing.

      I’m drawing attention to it as an example of what GRA means for women and why it is politically naive to think the issue is not – and will not – be a vote influencer in Scotland.

    49. mike cassidy says:

      Oh, God!

      It’s even stirring the Jordan Peterson groupies

    50. Effijy says:

      Labour Stink!
      Labour advised they must bathe.
      Labour undecided on whether to continue to stink or bathe?
      Labour discuss the bathing options. To take a shower or a bath?
      Labour ask it’s members if they should use hot or cold water?
      Labour debate on whether to use soap or shampoo if they bathe?
      Labour meets with McTernan and they think he stinks more than them?
      Labour agree to wait and see what McTernan does.
      Labour and McTernan continue to stink.

    51. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Hamish100 at 9:41 pm

      I very nearly re-joined the SNP in the run-up to Indyref … I got as far as the gender bit on the form and was confronted with “non-binary” as an option.

      I had no idea what non-binary was supposed to mean, so I looked it up and thought that it was bad enough having to endure accordion music at fundraising events … but the Ladyboys of Banokokburn?

      Naah! not for me.

    52. Col.Blimp IV says:

      How can you tell the difference between a Unionist and a Trans-man when they are both wearing kilts?

    53. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Look up their kilts…

    54. Col.Blimp IV says:

      …The Unionist is the one who isn’t wearing any balls!

    55. Essexexile says:

      It has to be asked. What is the effing point of the party political conference season any more? Particularly when there’s a timebomb counting down it’s last few seconds.
      On the most important issue at Labour’s conference they’ve decided to postpone any sort of attempt at deciding policy until after the electorate have granted them power through blind faith and misguided loyalty. Then they’ll sh*t on half their voters by making a decision on Brexit.
      Meanwhile at the SNP conference, everybody was steered away from challenging the flimsy party line on securing iref2 and GRA looks set to be steamrolled through without much debate.
      Expecting lots of talk next week about how Britain will prosper after a no deal Brexit on a diet of Spitfires and sausages without the Tory delegates hearing any detail about how any of it would actually work.
      Still, as long as they’re all enjoying themselves on membership paid expenses…

    56. Meg merrilees says:

      So if the Supreme Court finds against Boris he will call a snap GE for October 14th….

      The Conservative party is in it’s DEATH throes and if this misfires they’re finished. It will be Farage for PM and the Brexit party all the way or PM Swinson…

      Labour have created an unbelievable position where they’re neither for nor against Brexit and the voters will abandon them in their droves. Corbyn is finished.

      It really depends whether Leave or Remain has the majority in England and we all have to watch the slow motion car crash that is about to unfold.

      Whilst in Scotland it seems it won’t matter how many people vote for the SNP and /or indy ref 2 because it will never be enough for the ‘opposition’ parties who don’t want to lose their comfy jobs as pretendy politicians – and they wonder why people do not use their vote!

    57. Liz g says:

      Mike Cassidy @ 9.41
      Those Women should have treated them to a nice chorus to Satchimo ” I hear you knocking,but you can’t come in ”
      Could see it being a theme tune for Women against the GRA 🙂
      But seriously though when this hits the general public the SNP are going to have problems.. And like I’ve said before these women will swing right in behind Wings.

    58. Heart of Galloway says:

      Just been watching the ahem* highlights from Brighton and Labour skewering any notions that it is a democratic party.

      A show of hands on a motion committing Labour to immediately campaign for Remain looked to close to call.

      Conference chairperson Wendy Nichols certainly thought so – and appeared ready to announce a card vote (correctly) in order to get a true tally of fors and againsts in the hall.

      Enter stage left general secretary Jennie Formby, whose quiet word in Wendy’s ear had the all too obvious aim of getting the vote declared for Corbyn without involving such niceties as tellers and a proper count.

      A flustered Wendy did as she was told – but in doing so inadvertently poured petrol on the flames by telling the truth: “Sorry, I thought [the vote] was one way and Jennie said something else. That was lost.”

      Cue disorder and frenzied shouts (correctly) for a card vote.

      Consternation on the podium. Nichols: “Whichever way I go with this I am going to be in trouble with some people.

      “In my view it was carried [another intervention from Formby] ..no sorry, sorry, it was lost.”

      No card vote. Cue mayhem.

      And there, ladies and gentlemen, you have the Labour Party at its finest.

      This pantomime will have one surefire consequence – the departure of tens of thousands of pro-Remain members from the Labour Party, destination unknown.

      And of this card vote farce on BBC Shortbread TV?

      In complete contrast to its UK main office and all other TV channels, not a word.

      Just Rickie Lionheart saying something important (cannae remember what it was) with cut offs to clapping seals in the audience.

      We see you Pathetic Quay.

    59. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Heart of Galloway @ 00:21,

      Yes, another lurch downwards by the Swithering Party, and in full public view.

      There is a wise old saying that a chairperson with some backbone might usefully have known:

      “If you can’t please everybody, do the right thing.”

    60. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Heart of Galloway @ 00:21,

      Oh, Dicky Micehert was going to bequeath us more & better devo.

      Y’know, what we already have =cough=, as guaranteed by Gabbo Broono.

      Well, “three tries a charm”, I suppose, so if not this time, maybe another time? Eventually.

      Supposing we could be a**ed to wait, that is.

    61. Cactus says:

      Cheers Rev, aye hope to be back someday if we cool…

      SO much has happened in such ah short time

      Your stage… man

    62. mr thms says:

      I’m confused.

      Richard Leonard says he wants a new Scotland Act so that Employment Law can be devolved?

      I thought the Scotland Act 2016 was designed in such a way that reserved powers can be devolved with the simple agreement of both governments?

      This means devolution of more reserved powers does not require a new Act or even a vote.

    63. dadsarmy says:

      In less than 5 hours the UK either upholds the rule of law, or slides irretrievably into the autocracy of absolute anarchy.

    64. Breeks says:

      I wonder if there was utter despair amongst ordinary people with their ineffective opposition parties back in 1930’s Germany, as Hitler and his fascists slowly secured their grip on power. I wonder if they were waiting on ‘somebody to do something’.

      Was it a failure of politics? Or a collective mass insanity? Or just too many complacent “average joes” in positions of political power, and all of them lacking the talent or charisma to steer people away from the darkness and into the light?

      I fear it will take decades for England to fix what is broken. I also think it will have to get worse before it gets better, but they are steady on that course, and eventually societal structures will need rebuilt from the ground up. Their politics and their media will need purged of it’s malevolent black heart which poisons people in the head, young and old. I repeat, there are decades involved in this.

      I want no part of it. I want to look away. I physically want to be somewhere else because none of this concerns me,… or rather it does concern me but isn’t my concern if you appreciate the difference. My country has it’s own problems, ‘sane’ ordinary problems, but we can never seem to get to those issues because we are chained to a drowning self obsessed sociopath, and it’s all we can do to keep our head above water… and it’s endless.

      We must break free before our strength fails. If we cannot save ourselves, we cannot save them and both of us end up drowned. In diver rescue, the drill is to detach yourself from a distressed diver who is in a panic, keep yourself calm, safe, and in control, and resume your rescue once the panicked diver has passed out and stopped thrashing about. It’s not through selfish self preservation, it’s objectively the safest thing to do with the best chance of saving both divers.

      Scotland, in Europe, with a strong economy can help to stabilise whatever is going wrong south of the Border. We add options to their otherwise bleak scenario. But we MUST stay in Europe. We absolutely MUST.

      The UK Union is dead and dysfunctional. The EU Union has never been more relevant and vital.

    65. Ken500 says:

      The SNP Conference is coming soon in the bigger venue filled to the brim. No one can be bothered with the shambles at Brighton or whatever. What a mess. A complete abd utter shambles. Just like the Westminster unionists corruption.

      The Tories could muck the Conference up with a GE. With everyone’s places booked. The Tories do not give a fig about Scotland. They,are toast, especially in Scotland. The SNP the biggest Party in the UK. 10 times more pro rata. On to Independence. 2020. Nearly 100 years after 1928. Scotland will have finally done it. On to good governance. What a time to be alive. The anticipation.

      Get out of the Westminster unionist total mess. From crisis to crisis since 1928. Destroying the world economy. They could not make a bigger mess the Westminster unionist sycophants. Thank goodness for the SNP good governance. Standing up for Scotland. Scotland Independent in Europe making the right decision. The Westminster unionists have destroyed Europe/world economy. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Killing millions, The EU has to sort it out. The Westminster unionist complete and utter shambles. They are a world laughing stock.

      Make the world better place. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. That will stop the Westminster unionist imbeciles destroying the world. Costing £Billions/Trillions. Death and destruction.

      Netanyahu is in the way out. Bribery and corruption. Aided by the US. Another failed economy.

    66. gullaneno4 says:

      Swimming against the tide and looking at the GE from an English/Welsh perspective, is the Labour party now the only party that appears to be championing a second EU Referendum.
      That could be a vote gatherer.

    67. Giving Goose says:

      Breeks
      The similarities are with the perception that “their country” has been lost to them.
      Germany – the humiliation of defeat in 1918 and the Allies impositions of peace.
      England/BritNat UK – loss of empire/status.

    68. Giving Goose says:

      A friend asked me why BritNats now insisting about 2/3 majortity vote in Indyref2.
      Because their polling indicates that Indy vote is now somewhere between 50% and 66%.

    69. Gfaetheblock says:

      Giving Goose

      When was the 66% poll? I have only one over 50% recently.

    70. Hamish100 says:

      Bbc interviewing thomas cook employees and TU. Not once did the role of the uk government be mentioned. Hands washed clean?

    71. Heart of Galloway says:

      Breeks@6.21am

      A fine undersea analogy of the two nations’ respective positions.

      And it may take the shock of Scotland dissolving the Union that brings our southern neighbour to its senses.

      Meanwhile, I think BoJo is about to get his neb at least partially bloodied by the Supreme Court.

      Shoul that happen all bets are off as to what happens next. No doubt the dark lord has a cunning plan for the blond liar.

      By the by, I am reliably informed that at a recent event a senior Tory of the shortbread variety let slip that the General Election would be held on December 5. Could be a false flag by said Tory, but watch this space.

    72. Ken500 says:

      Johnston’s grandfather, a journalist, was killed by Turkish nationalists for opposing them. Will Johnston last until October. Doubt it.

      More members are joining than leaving. The SNP will do the right thing as usual. The SNP (Gov) is funded by the members. That is why the SNP can do the right thing, ordinary people who want a better world. For SelfID people on the spectrum of body DNA and genes.Not confirming to the norm. A tiny proportion. They have to be considered. The proper humane thing to do. In line with International Law. A bit of compassion. Would not go a miss. instead of mass hysteria cultivated by ignorance and arrogance. Or just mean and nastiness. Jumping on the bandwagon.

      The place were women are most safe, statistically, on the planet are mixed changing rooms and prison (although most should not be there). Mixed changing rooms also allowed more women (main careers) to access the facilities. Allows more people to access the facilities. The safest places in earth, with full security, The place where women are the least safe are their own homes. Their own spaces. From male family members and ‘friends’.

      Women are more likely to suffer violence in their own homes than anywhere else. Statistically. Or attack from (male) government. Austerity affected woman more. The Tories targeted women, children and the vulnerable. The Courts had to overcome the cuts. They were unlawful. The Westminster unionist ignoramus.

      The SNP (Gov) stuck up for the vulnerable and mitigated the policies. With good management. MUP saves people’s lives, health.snd money. It should be reinvested in proper total abstinence, one chance rehab counselling. To help even more people and lives and money.

      More men than women suffer violent attack and death from other men. 4 times more. It is a gender issue. It is makes who are the aggressors Testosterone. Nurture or nature. Genes. They can just lash out when confronted. , Or self harm. Women internalise. Blame themselves. Or are coerced into blame. Men are more likely to attack. Not transgender people. Most of them would not hurt a fly. They just want to SelfID. Not a great problem for others. Just society prejudice, lack of compassion abd ignorant. Targeting others not the norm. A storm in a teacup. The SNP (Gov) will deal with conform consensus. For every member that leaves, More people will join. With compassion.

    73. Ken500 says:

      It is male gender, who are the attackers/aggressors. Women commit less crime. Different non violent crime. To feed their families etc. Main careers.

    74. Ken500 says:

      Some of the Labour promise are old hat. Deja Vu. Repeated all the time forbyears, They never happen. Designed to fool the public or anyone who listens to them. Many have been tried before. They did not work then and will not work now for good reason. Corbyn on Trident. Lost principles. A lost cause. 50 years of lying Labour unionists. Destroying the planet. Deja Vu. The lying Vow. How can people be taken in it. The old Etonian unionists destroying the planet. Hypocrites and lies. A absolute disgrace. The Westminster unionist sycophants. An embarrassment.

    75. Harry mcaye says:

      Ken – yes or no, if you were a woman, would you be quite relaxed about entering a changing room and finding only one other person there, and it’s a man in a dress? Not a man with long hair and made up like a woman but just a burly bloke in a dress. Because this happens, I’ve seen one such man post his picture on twitter, boasting about how a woman came in, took one look at him, and ran back out.

    76. Ottomanboi says:

      Breaking news-wind….
      Downton film doing formidably well for GB in North America.
      UK heading backwards to its too too devine destiny.
      Break open the dressing up box guys.
      Its comin yet for aa that……but what exactly?
      In all probability something of this sort.
      https://qz.com/quartzy/1145563/i-am-a-daughter-of-the-chinese-cultural-revolution-and-i-was-an-european-debutante/
      Vivat Britannia!

    77. Fergus Green says:

      ‘For the Labour party, solidarity means that everyone gets stabbed in the back’

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

    78. Capella says:

      I can see the sense of Corbyn’s position – he is saying the people must choose in a second referendum, after he has negotiated a better deal. Neither John McTernan nor Kathleen Clarke are in a position to know what Corbyn would support. Leave the EU under current conditions or stay if better conditions can be secured.

      Corbyn is playing the democrat card and since we say we live in a democracy that makes sense.

      @ Mike Cassidy – thx for link. Glad to see women are meeting during the Labour conference to oppose recent developments at Westminster. Labour’s Woke Brothers are clearly upset. Coming to a conference near you unless the SNP wake up.

    79. Giving Goose says:

      Gfaetheblock
      I’m guessing that this is the case based on the panic from Unionists.
      In light of the rumours re a private Tory poll that has been buried and now the 2/3 narrative it suggests that a real figure for Indy is somewhere between these figures i.e. greater than 50 and less than 66.

    80. Ottomanboi says:

      @Ken500
      What a very bleak world you appear to inhabit. The implication that the male sex is inherently wicked is way too dark for this time in the morning.
      Might make a scary graphic novel though.

    81. McBoxheid says:

      kapelmeister says:
      23 September, 2019 at 9:34 pm

      The Labour Party is AWOLOR.

      Absent Without Leave or Remain.
      ______________________

      thumbs up thingy!

    82. Cubby says:

      Quite surprised that the Britnat media in Scotland have as yet been unable to spin the Thomas Cook problem in to Scotgov or SNP baaaad. Reporting Scotland – what’s wrong with you.

    83. dadsarmy says:

      So the question is, basically, will they need to rename the Parliamanent Channel, the BoJo Channel? Where you can get the thrills of the static high wire, the circus in all its buffoonery, Bojo modelling hitec, and BoJo’s cooking tips for chlorinated chicken.

      They’ll have a year to get it perfect folks, because then all other channels will disappear, your (compulsory) TV set turns on automatically at 6 am tuned to the BoJo Channel, and switches off at 11 pm; going into standby mode when it detects an empty house as everyone goes off to mandaTory work.

      Be a Citizen. Bojo needs citizens to work till the day they die, which is the day citizens become unable to work.

    84. Capella says:

      John’s a Leaver, Kathleen’s a Remainer, each see Corbyn through their own filter. Bingo. In the GE, likely to be very soon, everybody in England votes for the Corbyn they want.

      The Tories have to promote Leave to fend off the Brexit Party and the Lib Dems have to promote Remain to steal votes from the SNP. Corbyn’s stance makes perfect sense IMO.

    85. RobertTheTruth says:

      @Ken500

      Many people have tried to explain what the problem with the proposed reform of the GRA is about yet you persist in reducing it to being nice to trans people.

      It is about the removal of women’s sex based rights that already exist in law. Any man will be able to enter a female only space by declaring they are female. The opposite argument is made redundant because men on the whole do not feel physically threatened by women. However,as this debate shows, men are dismissive of women’s concerns and especially SNP men here.They try to spin this into an anti-SNP campaign whereas Self-ID is a madness infecting LAB, LibDems and Green equally.

      Women are already under represented in all areas of elite employment and sport. If men have access to these areas reserved for women now, that underrepresentation is now amplified.

      If you are going to comment at least read up about the subject. This word salad you produce every day is incoherent and often barely legible.

      Viewing the world through the prism that the SNP are always right is infantile and blinkered. They are not and especially this time. People are trying to show them this is a problem policy but they are being ignored.

    86. Lenny Hartley says:

      Has Cactus been hammered?

    87. Welsh Sion says:

      10:35
      Breaking
      Suspension of Parliament is a matter for the court
      The Supreme Court has overturned the ruling from the English High Court and determined that it can rule on whether the suspension was lawful.
      The prime minister has lost the first stage but not necessarily the whole case.

    88. Welsh Sion says:

      Lady Hale says the decision is unanimous.

    89. Welsh Sion says:

      13s ago
      10:42
      Supreme court rules Boris Johnson’s prorogation was ‘unlawful’
      Hale says the court is “bound to conclude that the decision to advise her Majesty to prorogue parliament was unlawful”

    90. Fireproofjim says:

      Well, Boris Johnston broke the law.
      Jail time next

    91. Grey Gull says:

      So what does this mean for Scotland? Does that mean they’ve acknowledged and respected the Scottish court’s decision?

    92. Ghillie says:

      SC rules UNLAWFUL!!

    93. Fionan says:

      Dogs started barking just as she reached the final sentences, dammit – did she say that Joanna Cherry’s motion was disallowed?

    94. Welsh Sion says:

      10:45

      Hale says prorogation ‘unlawful, void and of no effect’

      Hale says prorogation is not a proceeding in parliament.

      Although it takes place in parliament, it is not their decision. It is something that has been imposed on them from outside.

      The PM’s advice to Her Majesty was “unlawful, void and of no effect”.

      That means the order in council was also “unlawful, void and of no effect”.

      That means the prorogation had no effect. She says it is as if the royal commission had no effect.

      Parliament has not been prorogued, she says.

      She says it is for the Speaker to decide what happens next.

    95. admiral says:

      Grey Gull says:
      24 September, 2019 at 10:47 am
      So what does this mean for Scotland? Does that mean they’ve acknowledged and respected the Scottish court’s decision?

      It seems they have come to the exact same conclusion as the Inner House – prorogation was unlawful and therefore null and void and Parliament is legally still sitting!

    96. Capella says:

      Brilliant news from the Supreme Court. John Bercow will surely reconvene Parliament asap with some delight.

    97. Fireproofjim says:

      Joanna Cherry being brilliant in the steps of the Supreme Court.
      Scots Law and courts upheld. No one. Is above the law. Not even the Monacrch and certainly not Boris Johnston.
      I love her, she is my MP.

    98. Fionan says:

      Thank you Welsh Sion for the written decision – I thought she said Cherry’s case was dismissed, but it was the appeal against it that was dismissed, which upholds the CoS decision. Whew! Exciting times. Now, will Boris & co go to the UCJ 😉

    99. Breeks says:


      Fionan says:
      24 September, 2019 at 10:47 am

      Dogs started barking just as she reached the final sentences, dammit – did she say that Joanna Cherry’s motion was disallowed?

      Yes, but the Cherry case was successful, and the appeal was thrown out. Cherry case vindicated.

      The Miller case failed, but overturned on appeal, so the Miller appeal succeeded.

    100. Fireproofjim says:

      Now Ian Blackford. Boris Johnston must Resign immediately.o

    101. Fionan says:

      Thank you Breeks 🙂 A great decision.

    102. HandandShrimp says:

      The air is thick with the smell of burned gammon this morning.

      However, Stu is correct, parliament must now reconvene in order to continue achieving nothing.

      On we trundle. Expect a reheated May’s deal shortly. The question is will they vote for it this time?

    103. callmedave says:

      Cherry and Blackford etal having their say there.

      Great decision and a unanimous verdict I believe.

      ‘Null and Void’ it never happened but what will Queenie say if Boris tries it again next week? 🙂

    104. McBoxheid says:

      Harry mcaye says:
      24 September, 2019 at 8:53 am

      Ken – yes or no, if you were a woman, would you be quite relaxed about entering a changing room and finding only one other person there, and it’s a man in a dress? Not a man with long hair and made up like a woman but just a burly bloke in a dress. Because this happens, I’ve seen one such man post his picture on twitter, boasting about how a woman came in, took one look at him, and ran back out.
      ___________________________________________
      But you have never actually seen this happen, have you? You are scaremongering.

      If you travel to mainland Europe, you will find many countries have public saunas where people go naked. You don’t have to, by over 99% do. They still have separate changing areas, but some have open areas at the edge of the complex where everyone can see in. (They are going to get their kit off anyway.)

      There were toilets in France that were for both sexes. (I haven’t been back for over 50 years, so I don’t know if they still exist.)

      This reaction to transexuals using women only spaces is a matter of moving from a perceived norm, like moving to Yes if you like. It only needs a societal attitudinal change. Once folk get used to it, naebody will make a fuss. Obviously, if there are predatory men dressing as women to cause fear, or to rape women, then they need to be dealt with.

      These tossers online that post to boast, should be arrested and charged with threatening behaviour or whatever the charge is or cautioned at least. If that person is not threatening anyone, then maybe the women who feel threatened need to rethink the way they go solo to a toilet at night. They could always take a mate as many other women do. If an area is thought of as dangerous, solitary people tend to avoid them anyway. Tarring transexuals with the same brush as these predators is quite ridiculous.

      In Germany, most public toilets have cleaners outside, although not in all places. If burly men are reported to frequent certain places, then police or security need to patrol them. These “burly men” aren’t transexuals, they are predatory crossdressers.

      Transexuals, part or full, or want to go through with the surgery, but are still in the process of doing that tend to respect others. I’m not talking about those people that claim to be, but don’t want the op. They are people who associate with their feminine/masculine side, who need to be respected too, or are on a stag or hen night, or are sexual predators.

      You got these predators before transexuallity was an physical option anyway and I don’t think that they are generally considered part of the transexual community. They hang around the edges as a cover.

      I think that there needs to be a change of public attitude. The Victorian prudish attitude belongs in the past, with the “rule britannia” brigade. If you ever get the chance to visit a “continental” style sauna, do it. It is quite liberating. Naebody cares or makes a fuss about what you look like or how small your penis or breasts are. You realise that your reservations were all empty fears. Got a big belly? Look around, so have many others. Naebody cares!

      I go to the sauna regularly. There are many different types and temperatures, that help with the intense pain that I suffer from. My left side is weak and obviously so since my stroke. I get absolutely zero hassel. In fact I get a discount at the door.

      These are my personal views. Live and let live. An independent Scotland should be a place where accepting others beliefs and sexuality should the norm. People should be free to be themselves, as long as they don’t hurt anyone else.

    105. Frank Gillougley says:

      The consequences of this ruling will be endless of course. But in the judgement i did hear lady hale upholding of the 1688 english bill of rights referred to and by inference then the 1689 scottish claim of rights. This must bode well regarding the sanctity and security of the scottish parliament.

      Irrespective of it all, I still think come a GE, the tories will win hands down and a hard brexit will take place.

      What will become of scotland in that case is anybodys guess.

    106. admiral says:

      Fireproofjim says:
      24 September, 2019 at 10:53 am
      Joanna Cherry being brilliant in the steps of the Supreme Court.
      Scots Law and courts upheld. No one. Is above the law. Not even the Monacrch and certainly not Boris Johnston.
      I love her, she is my MP.

      Mine too! Roll on a GE and I can get a big yellow SNP “Vote Cherry” poster in my window! 🙂

    107. Bob Mack says:

      Tory majority at next Geneal election almost guaranteed.

    108. Ghillie says:

      Boris Trump is in the pooh =)

      All those lazy brats who thought they were getting a free holiday won’t chuffed.

      And the SNP are already lined up at the door with all their pencils sharpened 🙂

      WELL DONE JOANNA CHERRY AND MR MAUGHAM AND ALL THE MANY OTHERS WHO BROUGHT SOME SANITY TO WESTMINSTER 🙂

    109. manandboy says:

      History in the making – and not finished yet.

    110. Grey Gull says:

      Bet Lizzie is not amused!

    111. Baldeagle58 says:

      Will wonders never cease?
      Supreme Court supports the view of the Scottish Courts that BoJo’s suspension of Parliament was unlawful!
      Where does the ‘Clown’ that we have for PM go from here?

      Does anyone have a link to Joanna Cherry’s interview outside the Supreme Court?
      Has she posted her reaction to her Twitter account yet?

    112. Willie says:

      Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson must now stand down.

      Suspending parliament to stymie Democratic scrutiny has now unanimously been ruled unlawful. Well done the Scottish Court of Session for getting this right in advance of the U.K. Supreme Court.

      And well done Joanna Cherry MP QC.

    113. Willie says:

      Yes and no wonder the fecker is hiding out in New York keeping out of the way.

      Time the bastard came back to face the music and resign. Trump’s chump must come out of hiding.

    114. Willie says:

      And Her Majesty should be considering her position too.

      The Supreme Court may not have said so, but it’s technically Lizzie’s prorogue and not the Prime Ministers.

      She signed the order. She was the final say. Without her agreement parliament would not have ceased operating. Her order, not Boris’s was unlawfull.

      Time she and her deviant household were gone.

    115. Davy S says:

      UK Tory party, their wealthy donors and their media collaborators now laughing stock of the world. Well done to Joanna et al for taking them to task on our behalf.

    116. Bobp says:

      Yes the Tories and Brexit party will sweep the board down here in a GE. Scotland I hope you have got your get out of jail card ready. It’s either free nation or english domination.

    117. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Has Cactus been hammered?”

      He’s on pre-moderation to filter out the endless floods of gibberish and let through the vaguely coherent comments.

    118. Willie says:

      Interesting how Corbyn was calling for a General Election this morning just after the Supreme Court decision when only a fortnight ago he was arguing against a general election.

      I don’t know the figure from the polls but it most certainly seems that in large swathes of England the populace would re-elect a majority of Tory MPs. And with the Tory Party purged of the middle of the road, pro remain, members, the prospect of a reinstalled Johnson/ Rees-Mogg/ Gove becomes a reality that Scotland can not afford.

      Clown Corbynn should have declared his wish for another referendum not a GE because that would have given clarity to what the people wanted.

      Leave – under any circumstances
      Remain – but negotiating some change.

      But no, our leftie pseudo socialist has more to think about banning private schools than addressing the fundamental question as to what people now want. What does the guy stand for, what does his party stand for. And no wonder they are trashed nervous of existence in Scotland.

      But most of all. Is it not time for Scottish Independence. We do not need this southern circus show. Scotland and England are at completely different ends of a spectrum and like oil and water they do not mix and never will.

    119. Cactus says:

      Understood Rev, I’ll make amends, apols to the readers.

    120. defo says:

      I’m fairly sure it sounds perfectly logical in his head Stu.

      Kudos wise,does a Hammering beats a Blocking?

    121. Liz g says:

      Well …. I think it’s just been proved beyond doubt
      That a Monarch can’t protect Democracy in a Parliament.
      It had to be a Court that acted.
      She had one job!!!!
      Otherwise what is she for?
      They (royalty) really are the most ridiculous people, and just the very expensive decorations some have always thought them to be.
      She didn’t need to sign that paper and she may have took some flack for it…. But no …. She signed away and all the consequences fell on us!!!

    122. Cammy says:

      With mcternan’s track record, you can be sure the lassie is correct.

    123. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Liz g

      Parliament works in a democracy as the Dictatorship of the Representatives of the Largest minority.

      It passes laws which as often as not, are against the wishes of the majority of the people at large.

      The Queen’s job is to endorse these laws on behalf of the Nation, without playing any role in their formulation or passing comment on their worth – A kind of half-arsed attempt to make it look like we are all pulling together.

      If we were a modern country with a real constitution we would probably still need someone to fulfill a similar role – The Keeper of the Rubber Stamp … Only they would be empowered by the people to withhold the ink, in the event of the Government trying to overstep the powers granted to them by the constitution.

      Her Englishness has that power in theory but if she tried to use it in practice, she would be sure to bring about a “constitutional crisis” that might prove hazardous to her wealth – I wonder If she will apply for the job once one becomes vacant in Scotland.

    124. Sinky says:

      Bbc tv lunchtime news shows jo swinson comments but no mention of snp call for an election .
      Vox pop from Glasgow no coverage of National’s front page nut shoes 3 yoon paper’s front page

    125. msean says:

      Well,with the record with Mr McTernan seems to have,Mr Corbyn is now a remainer,having changed from leave to remain because he never changes his mind,except now.

    126. msean says:

      *that, not with.

    127. Vince Harvie says:

      “immediately demanded to have another vote to overturn that vote”

      You’ve rather mis-characterised that.

      It occurs to me that Labour’s leadership wanted a show of hands vote specifically so that, in the event of a close vote, they could call it as they wanted.

      It’s perfectly reasonable for delegates to want a properly counted vote. They were asking for verification of the vote, not to overturn it.

      But you’ve presented it as remain voters trying to overturn a vote they didn’t like – ‘just like the referendum’. When really they were stitched up, perhaps just like the referendum.

    128. The Tanner Rocket says:

      BoJo has a majprity of -20; why does he need the DUP anymore? As a result, he can implement the backstop, implement Brexit, screw the DUP (as well as everyone else) and look forward to the election as Saviour of the Universe.



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