Justice’s torn blindfold
So it seems we opened quite a can of worms when we broke the story of the Scotland In Union donor leak last month. Yesterday saw the disturbing tale of police armed with battering rams seizing computers and phones from David Clews of right-wing Unionist group UK Unity, a former SIU member suspected of being the source of the leak.
For the record we have absolutely no idea if he’s the source or not (and we don’t know who is – the file was passed to us anonymously through a now-deleted email account), but however much of a mad zoomer someone might be we find ourselves rather uncomfortable with the deployment of such an excessive display of intimidatory police force in the defence of the interests of the wealthy establishment.
Clews might be a Unionist – and a fairly unpalatable one at that – but we very much doubt it was ever going to be necessary to smash his door down, and it’s striking to see the magnitude of the state’s reaction against one of its own the moment they might step out of line and do anything to displease either the titled and landed gentry who provide most of SIU’s money, or their loyal bootboys.
So having been subjected to a ridiculous arrest (and completely spurious, months-long confiscation of electronic equipment) ourselves last year for doing our job, we didn’t view the raid with quite as much schadenfreude as readers might expect.
But it wasn’t the most disturbing thing to arise from the story.
Because yesterday also saw revelations about how SIU’s chief executive Pamela Nash, former Labour MP for the Protestant stronghold of Airdrie and Shotts, had (with exactly the level of indignant “how very dare they?” pique one might expect) attempted to bully the Electoral Commission as it investigated the legality of the group’s donations, none of which had been publicly declared despite it being a regulated campaigner in the last three general elections.
(Despite at least £150,000 having been received during the regulated periods for which large donations must be disclosed.)
And as an FOI request from investigative site The Ferret – published by The National and the Herald – showed, they’d had some success.
Despite SIU breaking the rules by a non-trivial amount – 33% above the spending limit – the EC decided to shrug its shoulders and not pursue any penalties.
Alert readers may recall that when this site similarly failed to satisfy the Commission regarding a spending return for the 2014 independence referendum – and we DID send in our full and accurate spending details before the deadline, but the Commission declined to accept bank statements as proof and demanded documents that we didn’t possess – we were ticked off and fined, much to the Scottish media’s glee.
But that still wasn’t the most alarming bit. Because the email exchange uncovered in The Ferret’s FOI revealed that the Electoral Commission wasn’t even going to bother trying to get hold of the evidence for its investigation, but was instead simply going to rely on SIU to ‘fess up voluntarily.
It would be hard to argue with a cynical reader who suggested that the EC appeared to operate two very different sets of rules depending on who it was investigating.
The State pays the wages of the EC Stu, and the State is supported by the wealthy, be that State governed by a Conservative or Labour pack of numpties. There has been lots of double EC standards over the last few years.
Keep up you good work please.
Times have changed eh?
Its the clangingly obvious nature of their obsequious pro-yoon approach.
Actually pitiful – ‘electoral commission’ – laughably anti democracy.
One rule for… etc.
So which is it?
The EC are:
1. To afraid to pursue
2. Can’t be arsed because… reasons.
3. Have several very separate and selective sets of rules to apply depending on subject.
4. Are completely toothless.
5. All of the above.
Answers on a postcard.
Should read ‘Too afraid’. (shrugs)
It stinks. This whole establishment stuff stinks. In fact, sulpher, the first smelly indication of Beelzebub doesn’t stink half as much as SiU does.
Cynical? Damn right and raging too. Where is the fairness..oh silly me. :{
I believe the EC are guilty of bias and discrimination.
Electoral Commission is useless when it comes to taking on the Establishment. That’s why the Lib Dems get away with breaking the spending limits by applying what is clearly constituency expenditure backing West Edinburgh’s Cole Hamilton to Regional election expenses.
With numerous wealthy benefactors, well beyond that of other parties, the Tories have the capacity to set up as many campaigning groups as suit their needs in influencing the media and electorate.
Therefore donations to different bodies with the same, or similar objectives, should be aggregated for the purposes of transparency to place all parties on the same footing.
This is a major scandal but the Unionist press aren’t interested.
Has the EC had a nod and a wink and maybe a handshake about who and how much any organisation/person is to be investigated. Remember the State IS the union, it is in a state but might is power especially when you hold all the cards, bbc, msm, state civil service, state authorities and of course all the hidden, illegal money to play with to make sure it is your way or the highway.
As.someone before said on here, yougov.com, BBC, etc etc, now this mob, all supposedly ‘neutral. Are nothing but westminster stooges. But people can now see through these liars and manipulators for what they are.ENEMIES of Scotland. The smell of fear is strong.
A kindness might be to suggest that the Electoral Commission don’t care because they think SiU are irrelevant wing nuts, peripheral to politics.
An unkind thought might be that the EC are corrupt.
The David Clews affair proves that the primary objective is not to protect their Union but to shield the establishment elite and the power they have accumulated. They view their Union as a construct within which that defence can best achieved.
The Union is perhaps only important to them as a means to that end.
It’s the ‘Two sets of rules depending on whichnside the offender is on’.
Sucks but how do you sort it?
Postcard answer for those watching.
a) Publicity which embarrasses and shows them up so no-one trusts them anymore, and/ or
b) demand a refund or the imposition of penalties.
Grrr.
Just more evidence of how corrupt the British Establishment is. I genuinely do not know how reasonable minded Scots can vote to remain part of this corrupt and damaging union.
If Scotland cannot secure a better future for its children next time, then maybe we are too stupid.
So just for clarification THESE are the members of the Electoral Commission who make these “incredible” decisions.
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
This must take a hard look at the EC in our next Referendum, or,
we will flatly be cheated again. We need reputal internationally un biased observers and a water tight voting system. Blockchain seems the best secure option, but I do not know how that would work or not.
One thing is for sure all UKOK proxies will be out defeat us by any and all means possible.
We need an answer that will overcome their treachery and I can only hope the SNP are well aware of the issues and take steps to nullify at least the most of it. Whatever we do, it needs put in place soon.
@Sinky
The EC are part of the Establishment it would seem, they are there to give a veneer of accountability to the political parties they see as fit and come down on any they see as a threat.
The Electoral Commission are yet another UKOK institution which will become irrelevant in iScotland. It (they all) will be replaced by new fit for purpose organisation(s).
There needs to be a mechanism which ensures true independence of public bodies. The EC is defined as independent of government but answerable to parliament. With the ridiculous FPTP system at WM, government and parliament are in effect one. Also, WM with its HoL element is representative of a much narrower group that ordinary voters.
In iScotland we can get these things right! In UKOK they will never be sorted out.
When ‘authorities’ cease to have authority because they have lost the respect of the people, we are in trouble.
And there’s a lot of it about. Official lying has become endemic.
Never thought EC was much use. Like many quangos they jist toady to government of the day to keep funding and jobs.
Lets hope in an independent Scotland we dont need them as we have a gov dept ethically regulating elections with a lobby at Holyrood if all is not good.
On another note related will you run a set of articles lookingvat candidates for SNP depute leader
I suspect the FOI exchange published by the Herald, describing a very convenient ‘clearly in the wrong’ indignation from Pamela Nash, will cover the Electoral Commission’s back; ‘Look how seriously we take this matter’.
At the risk of sounding smug – whilst hoping I’m completely off the mark – I felt while reading the Herald article; “This decision’ll be going the way of SIU”..
Arbroath1320 says:
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
… folks can make their own minds up about the appropriateness of this mix.
link to electoralcommission.org.uk.
Led by Sir John Holmes, the ten members of the Electoral Commission are, de facto, fully paid up members of the British Establishment, which is currently fighting for its life. The EC is not going to lift a finger against anyone seeking to maintain the Union.
I take your point but I am actually mildly impressed that the polis are being even handed when going to arrest white collar vs blue collar suspects. Note he did not say that the ram was deployed. I assumed he opened the door sharpish when the flashing blue lights impinged on his consciousness.
He simply clocked that the polis brought a ram with them, just in case. Who knows, maybe he was going to kick off or might have been in the middle of assaulting his partner or something necessitating a fastish entry of the premises. The polis is not to know.
Back in NZ the police are not routinely armed, except there is a shotgun locked in ALL patrol cars and rural police are pretty much routinely armed, all the farmers are you see. Arms equal. Everyone knows this. So unlike Aussie cops who carry sidearms routinely NZ cops do not. But they are not unarmed.
Getting the vapours over the police taking reasonable precautions in an unknown situation is snowflake behaviour. If the polis came to arrest me at home and *didn’t* bring a ram I would be mildly affronted and pout a bit.
Horrible. How did plod know it could be him anyway?
That red tory idiot doesn’t look much of bully but its interesting how her wiki write up leaves out her Scotland in Union stuff completely. Yoons are an odd crowd, red or blue tory.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Reading Yanis Varoufakis book,`Adults in the Room` (My battle with Europe`s deep Establishment),
early on Yanis is asked the binary choice “are you an insider or an outsider”
simple question,no long prose of what`s right or wrong what`s moral or immoral are your politics right wing or left,
simple question,
if you are an `insider` you get protected by Establishment (if it benefits the Establishment) and you in turn must protect the Establishment,
an `outsider`,like Yanis and Stu,have no protection and will be fair game to be attacked from all the minions of the ubiquitous Establishment.
Alasdair Morgan is a fully paid up member of our local SNP party and a thouroughly nice guy
If the polis came to arrest me at home and *didn’t* bring a ram I would be mildly affronted and pout a bit.
You do go on muscleguy.
You’d fill your kecks if a load of busy’s turned up at your gaff, meat wagons, tooled up, body armour, stun guns, stun grenades, lightsabers, police dogs:D
@Arbroath1320
Interestingly, the EC’s Scotland page has a description of their activities in English (language) but with an optional introduction in Welsh. Weird?
Serious questions should be asked in parliament regarding this matter – both Westminster and Holyrood!
Wasn’t the EC’s IndyRef1 ‘communication’ sent to every home in Scotland accused of being pro-Union? Can’t remember the details.
What I don’t fully understand is the involvement of Pamela Nash as SIU’s chief executive. I’m probably answering my own question here, but are Labour politicians actually so embedded into the London British Nationalist Establishment that they will justify and associate themselves with Stasi type police actions?
The British Nationalist establishment in full flow. That is what this is. It is merely a reflection of how corrupt our English masters in London are.
Then their is Dan Snow. Who knew he was a supporter of ‘scotland in union’. Well, well. Of course now we know why the British nationalist media are so keen to hand him cushy jobs scuttling around the world making exceptionally partisan, patronising and boring documentaries.
I do not doubt that in final year at oxbridge, the ‘right’ people are hand-picked to take a supplementary class on ‘how to milk the British establishment’.
This is how the British establishment works. It is how it has always worked. At the very top is the unelected and unaccountable aristocracy, including lizzie Windsor saxe-coburg, who maintain their position through patronage, honours, titles, ermine robes, baubles, bribery, corruption and London’s gold.
The electoral commission is the proverbial chocolate teapot of democracy. It merely adds a veneer of respectability to the corrupt ‘British way’. We should not be surprised.
Did I read the other day that there are still two Masonic Lodges active in WM for politicians and journalists?
Of course the game’s rigged for the Wealthy and the Elite.
Grow up guys. I seem to remember there was a stushy over the Polis and Judges being members of the Mafia for the Mediocre several years ago.
This is the real enemy of Scotland’s freedom. You X in a box counts for nothing to these people.
and by that I mean All Unionist Right Wing secret societies.
I’m slightly taken aback to find Stu Campbell being taken in by the hype about the battering ram. This is a standard piece of equipment that would commonly be carried in the type of vehicles used in such raids. It would be surprising if officers didn’t go equipped to effect forced entry should this be necessary. Does Stu think the police should send somebody back to the station for an ‘enforcer’ should they find they need it?
The squad carrying out that raid would also be equipped with batons, incapacitant spray and, quite possibly, tasers. Why no hysterical fuss about that? Because these things are standard equipment? Well, so is the battering ram. Because these other items were not deployed? Well, neither was the battering ram.
The battering ram is given prominence solely for the purpose of adding a bit of drama. It’s mentioned only to elicit a knee-jerk reaction. Best not to let them press your buttons quite so easily.
Wot? No Photon Cannons?
@ Jack Collatin, like this U mean?
link to orangeordersouthernengland.org
Peter A Bell says:
6 February, 2018 at 11:30 am
I’m slightly taken aback to find Stu Campbell being taken in by the hype about the battering ram. This is a standard piece of equipment that would commonly be carried in the type of vehicles used in such raids.
How do you know this though Peter?
A lot of assumptions going on here about police procedures. You see cops all the time visiting people at home, for all kinds of reasons, even traffic offences, you never see them waiting outside with a battering ram.
It’s a very clear signal from whoever it is that ordered this raid, don’t mess.
O/T apologies to do it so soon
Article in Business section of the Telegraph today:
“”The UK is sitting on natural assets worth £761bn””
Sorry it is one of their premium articles so cannot link to the whole thing but might be useful to see what it says especially about Scotland and oil if anyone can get it.
One anti-Scottish Establishment reversal. The return on accurate weather maps …..
link to archive.is
Posted earlier on a previous thread but not sure what one is ‘trending’ just now hence repost.
Did anyone hear Nicola on BBC R4 this morning?
Nicola was on the Today programme ( first hour) but I was unable to listen at the appropriate time. However, if you read the Guardian website it says…
‘Today’ BBC R4 an all woman programme -presenters and guests- including A.N.Other, the PM of New Zealand, Baroness Shirley Wotsit, founder of LibDems and Amber Rudd.- guess who ignored!
Back to theBBC, interestingly, I heard Amber Rudd being interviewed around 8.15am…
and I paraphrase..
Presenter: So Nicola Sturgeon is concerned that she has not been consulted about the No customs Union decision
Amber: Oh, no, she has been consulted
Presenter: She said earlier this morning that she had not been consulted..
Amber; no, she’s wrong, she has been consulted..
Presenter: well, she thinks that she hasn’t..
Amber: Well, she really has been consulted and it shouldn’t come as a surprise to her because all the devolved bits have been involved in a lot of discussions..
Presenter well… I really should ask you this again but you’re clearly not going to say anything else..WAFFLE WAFFLE…
Amber: I promise Nicola sturgeon that she will be consulted.
Thankyou very much, Amber
Hatchet job completed, honestly, short of calling Nicola a liar… really biased broadcasting.
OBE’s all round.
————————-
Jack Collatin
Lord Adonis tweet from 4TH FEB
link to twitter.com
Freemasonry that matters at Westminster is the Farage/Mogg lodge which now embraces most Tory MPs. Part of UKIP reverse takeover of Tory Party: hence Mrs May forced to rule out any Customs Union. Economically ludicrous & breach of the Good Friday Agreement!
actually a fascinating twitter site to read about the WM shenanigans.
Peter A Bell at 1130am,
Are all those items really standard equipment for the execution of a search warrant in Scotland? Really? It would be for a known/suspected violent criminal or terrorist, but for such a case as that above? Hmmm…
Can anybody with actual knowledge confirm this?
Galamcennalath
Aye, an’ it’ll be compulsory membership of the Flat Earth Society next. We seem to be spinning backwards…
@One_Scot says:
6 February, 2018 at 10:48 am
If Scotland cannot secure a better future for its children next time, then maybe we are too stupid.
=============
With c. 47% in favour of Independence these days, you ought to be more careful in your use of “we” there.
Any one concerned about the police using the Big Red Key a.k.a. the battering ram need only watch Police Interceptors. Quite often the programme goes on a raid with the interceptors and they ALWAYS go “armed” with the Big Red Key. I will say however that although they always take the BRK to the premises it is not always needed. If the door is found to be unlocked they will just walk in bearing in mind that they have a search warrant with them.
getting the feeling someone is playing with a marked deck and loaded dice here , that cant be true can it ? .
Judge has rejected Scottish court case to discover whether Article 50 is reversible. Claimants considering Appeal to Inner Court of Court of Session.
The query is that should MP’s, MSP’s and MEP’s wish to reject the final Brexit deal, there needs to be clarity as to what any possible alternatives are available.
link to bbc.co.uk
[…] Wings Over Scotland Justice’s torn blindfold So it seems we opened quite a can of worms when we broke the story of the Scotland In […]
Well George Orwell told us all about room 101, the way its going we will be getting rooms for us all, right up to room 201 and beyond, beware the eyeballs in the sky !
Meg merrilees says:
That surprises me. The Tories are saying from this point in there are only two outcomes – Leave with their deal, or Leave with no deal. That can’t be true! This action, when referred to the ECJ, could have clarified that a third option of just Remain is still available.
The judge appears to have accepted the Tory position that Brexit is definitely going to happen, whatever.
getting the feeling someone is playing with a marked deck and loaded dice here , that cant be true can it ? .
Well it’s their Baw and their game I dont think we can expect any fairness from them
Robert Louis says:
6 February, 2018 at 11:40 am
Peter A Bell at 1130am,
“Are all those items really standard equipment for the execution of a search warrant in Scotland? Really? It would be for a known/suspected violent criminal or terrorist, but for such a case as that above? Hmmm…
Can anybody with actual knowledge confirm this?”
—————————————————————-
I don’t have first knowledge of this but it could be standard equipment if there is to be a seizure of goods like ie a drugs bust incase they try to dispose of evidence before the police gain entry, the same could apply to a computer incase the suspect tries to destroy it before they gain entry
Just a thought
The fact is that these beaurocratic organisations are just another tentacle on the octopus that binds us to the British State. The State run and own everything. They own the law. They own the enforcers of law . They own the media and their regulators. The Civil Service and all the mechanisms of State..All belong to Westminster.
That is a fact we cannot escape from. It certainly makes the fight more difficult.but being a Glasgow lad,I will fight anyway. Matter of pride you see.
We have already burst the nose of the press. Who s next?
No question in my mind that any UK body is increasingly inclined to regard itself as defenders of the UK state and will bend the rules as much as possible to achieve that.
When the British state doesn’t want you to want what you want, they find ways to stop you wanting what they don’t want you to want, or they’ll even kill you to make you stop wanting, if they want
The State only crashed down the door to ensure that they gather any evidence of corruption that might go public.
Once found they can then destroy it before saying nasty Nats
made unfounded allegations against the poor man.
1984 is alive and well in Tory England and its Colonies.
I think the EC has set an interesting precedent here. One that I think will be used by various political groups in the future.
British nationalist corruption. The stench of britnat hypocrisy is boke-inducing. Whether it’s the anti-Scottish media or anti-Scottish politicians or anti-Scottish rich-people’s clubs the stinking foundations of the rotten so-called united kingdom continue to crumble away.
Thank god for WOS and other pro-indy sites. We must keep up the pressure. The Scottish government has begun to play hard-ball; it must increase effort in such tactics.
A battering ram sounds extreme, unless the guy was a huge drugs dealer, or terrorist or something.
Don’t worry, it’s all likely staged, so they can justify battering their way into any independence bloggers’ houses should they see fit, and no one can say boo hoo, how unfair. Nothing will come of their battering ram raid, waste of police time and money.
Stuart has been treated appallingly in recent times, for calling out the liars, and for exposing those who are meant to regulate processes such as voting being fair and equal, and the establishment don’t like that. Not for any wrongdoing but as a journalist in 21st century UKOK.
When an organisation, or media or government regulates itself, then you are not seeing a democracy at work, not in any shape or form. We are definitely not functioning on a level playing field, it’s not healthy, it’s incredibly backward and it’s way out of hand now.
@ JPJ2 12.18 and @ Dr Jim 12.21
Yip – reasons I wish Scot Gov would remove its business with this lot:
link to idoxgroup.com
Especially when you consider who’s got his fingers in the pie:
link to reddit.com
RE the comment above regarding The BBC returning to a flat map – if one clicks on the link to the article it is obvious that although they have returned to a flat map Scotland is still as out of proportion as it was on the slanted Bay Of Biscay view – Just compare the image of the new flat map with the one further down with Bill Giles.
Scotland In Union used to have a Gplus account (like Facebook but Google owned). They had only 16 followers. There was only ever one post on this site and one commenter, who repeatedly questioned “Why shouldn’t Scotland be independent like all NORMAL countries?” and “Why has a “popular”, and financially flush “grassroots” organisation have so few followers?” 16 is not a lot from 5 million plus Scots.
Can’t think why they’d take their site down.
If you’re in need of a laugh:
link to thenational.scot
@HandandShrimp
Interesting concept. It will probably be known as the Yoon defence. A defence which mainly consists of some bod stating that they have a hat load of cash and clout, now kindly be on your way my man.
Deceptive in its simplicity and unquestionably effective. 😉
Suffragists the peaceful movement for *equality for women*
Suffrajettes who for the same reason as above broke the law using Violence Arson and Criminal damage
Anybody noticed who gets the biggest respect
Not judging or advocating just saying
The lesson here is obviously if we want Scotland to become Independent we should send (ask) our women down to kick the shit out of them
How can the UK say no
The Electoral Commission is a fully paid up member of the british establishment. It is there to protect the british establishment from the likes of those nasty, anti-British SNP.
Don’t expect to win the next referendum if they are involved. We won’t.
Lol, from the Sun, ‘The tilted version has been baffling viewers for more than a decade’ – ‘except for viewers in Scotland’ that is, especially the ‘wise to the BBC’ non unionist ones.
If the Electoral Commission were any good they would ensure ALL non-party campaigners who spend more that £10,000 have to register and produce proper spending documentation.
How do partisan newspapers avoid registering? And for that matter, biased broadcasters?
Why is WoS expected to register and the highly biased Telegraph isn’t?
Then there is the BBC – hammerer of Scots and promoter of far right loonies!
People tend to take the easiest route if they can. Harassing WoS is probably fairly easy, and it will likely gain plaudits from from various media and political quarters. Doing the same against an organisation with links to powerful people probably looks like to much hassle.
re bbc weather map
the ridicule finally got to them 🙂
link to youtube.com
There is a sweet irony about Clews being brutalised by the very institution that he so reveres
I wonder if Mr Clews is feeling quite as British this morning as he felt last week ?
The process of erosion can remove a ledge you are standing on right enough. I watch as the British State daily pour water on their own chalk ledge
Henceforth her title: The Moronic Mone.
Is there no end to her lacks.
@Dr Jim
I didn’t realise there was a distinction in groups.
Suffragettes and suffragists.
link to getrevising.co.uk
Would female suffrage have been achieved peacefully without the militancy? It would be nice to think so!
We can safely add the Electoral Commission to the list of “watchdogs” which neither bark not bite. Alongside IPSOS and Ofcom they serve as filters to sift out the irritants who have the temerity to question what our imperial masters are doing, in secret.
In fact, they seem to serve to drain off legitimate criticism into a bottomless pool of despond. Maybe they also serve to identify potential “troublemakers”.
The dawn raid on David Clews is disturbing.
Had the Suffragettes been men they would have been terrorists and outlawed imprisoned then very likely forcibly disbanded or even shot
Equality is a funny road to navigate when you start making comparisons between the the things you’re trying to make equal, in my experience the people who have oppressed others whether women or men has generally been their own gender
Would female suffrage have been achieved peacefully without the militancy? It would be nice to think so!
Female suffrage in the UK is being “celebrated” by extremely reactionary tories today, not just BBC.
But the fact is, this is all from a British Imperial fascist era, where over 2 billion British Imperial subjects would never get near a ballot box, anywhere in the British Empire, around the globe.
We have to listen to the UKOK tory propaganda about the Palace of Westminster being the mother of all parliaments but ofcourse it is not.
It is fundamentally a memorial to a vast fascist empire, all of it controlled by the Edwardian tories, today venerated for “giving” some women in the British Empire the vote.
British fascist Imperialism is being airbrushed out of the teamGB memory, just like they’ve done with slavery.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Or, why are these liars lying to us now.
Woman’s suffrage would never have been achieved except for the war. The necessity to have them work in the factories and in all fields of maintenance of the functioning of the State, empowered them beyond rebuttal.
Up till then they had been subjected to every indignity mentionable to keep them in their place, servile and subjective.
They won, and so can we.
Reporting Scotlands weather map still shows that Glasgow is about the same distance from Edinburgh as it is from Fort William
The actual distance is around double from Glasgow to Fort William than Glasgow to Edinburgh
They must not have got the same digitals as the English weather people, still if you enjoy zooming in and out very quickly and seeing basically nothing because the place names are mahoosive and covering everything up it’s all lovely
I’ve always wondered about the huge names on the map, do people not know where they live?
Did we need any more proof that the UK state is as corrupt as is imaginable.
IPSO the EC etc are peopled by folk who all went to the same schools, belong to the same clubs,have each others backs, etc.
It’s goddam scary
As we are talking about hypocrisy, I heard the PM on BBC radio today, espousing her admiration for the suffragist/suffragette movement. I swear there wasn’t a hint of irony about her, despite her opposition to Scotland’s struggle for political emancipation and agency. Then again, she is a child of the Anglican church, so I suppose she is simply articulating the utilitarian values and Anglocentric word-view of her cultural roots.
Giving Goose
Sorry for not replying the other day, the causes of Brexit are unfortunately bound up with economics and Britain’s waning influence as a global power. England simply hasn’t gotten over loosing it’s empire. I just wish more Scots would wake up to the fact that England’s post-colonial malaise isn’t only unsightly, it threatens the well-being of Scots who are yet to be born.
N.B. Approximately 75% of Scots identify as Scots only.
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
link to historytoday.com
link to tandfonline.com
Regarding suffragettes and the 1918 reforms, it must be remembered that at the time of the first world war, almost all the men forcibly sent to die a gruesome needless death on the front line for ‘the empire’, did not have the vote. The mantra at that time seemed to be ‘you can die for us, but you cannot vote for us’. At the time of the suffragettes, only around half of working men had the vote.
Not trying to detract from the clear difficulties women had, both in terms of overall legal rights in terms of household and marriage (where the man was in complete control), and the vote.
Capella 1.22pm. Absolutely right. Ipsos,ofcom,BBC,EC, yougov,msm,etc, the list is endless. None of these organisations/agencies are fit for purpose. All unionist mouthpieces pretending to be impartial. In an indy2 referendum,we need international monitors at all polling stations and a tightening up of who is eligible to vote.
Galamcennalath
I think that is the nub of the decision.
The judge accepted the Government stance that they have no intention of revoking Article 50 therefore it is unnecessary to spend any time and resources on investigating a scenario that will not arise..
Whereas, Jolyon Dodgson QC, says that it is imperative that those involved in the final decision i.e. parliamentarians of all parties and Houses, should know whether there is actually a third option i.e. cancel the whole ‘flustercluck’.
The REAL reason that *almost* Universal Suffrage was achieved is that the Russian Revolution happened the year before.
British Cult hero Churchill, Home Secretary, fought the Suffragettes with an iron rod.
In 1911 Churchill ordered English troops into Wales to quell striking miners.
In 1915 he sent English troops to Glasgow to quell the Rent Strikes.
The British Establishment had sent almost a million working class MEN to their deaths.
Then in 1917 came the Russian Revolution. ..the British Establishment were in real TERROR of receiving the same treatment as the Russians.
That is the sole reason that the Establishment passed the Representation of the People Act 1918, giving 5 million MEN and 8 million women the vote.
No doubt in 100 yrs time under a FOI, we’ll find out how these agencies colluded with the westmidden government to try and deny Scotland its independence.
Looking at the photo above you have to ask Unionists in Scotland,Why do they have to get help from people from outwith Scotland? Surely they believe Scottish Unionist Citizens have a strong enough argument to defeat us Scottish Independista citizens. No?
Mrs Mayhem is on SKY news right now , what is she saying i havent got a clue and whats more i couldnt care less , i imagine she is announcing , not doing ,just announcing she seems to be good at that .
I wonder what the english thought they were going to get voting for this tory party , well sorry to upset you folks , it aint happened , and by the looks of it , it isn’t going to happen , any thoughts of a competent stable government have well and truly left the building , tough shit eh ?.
Mike
Yes, I think in years to come, indiscretions, FOIs and document releases will ensure a number of people in the establishment will have their place in history…
…a place that one might consider a bit agricultural implementish.
Saint Theresa announces a major crackdown on Social media. Criminal offences to include harassment of candidates and their staff. No indication of what harassment means.
They are indeed scared.
@Snode1965
When the USSR ceased to exist the establishment decided the fight was over and they could get the workers back where they belong. The timing of the collapse of the USSR and the massive greed explosion at the top of western society may just be a coincidence, but I suspect not.
A very disturbing line of action from the EC, it doesn’t do its credibility any good either.
I’ve no real sympathy for Mr Clews, however, the course of action taken by the police, is undoubtedly a sign of the power and influence that SIU donors possess.
It’s going to be very difficult to publish SIU’s donor list. Pity that, I’d like to have know exactly, who we’re up against.
Mike d says:
Many of those involved will actually believe they are impartial. I’m sure they are even offended at allegations of bias.
Such is success of imprinting the established version of UKOK into folks minds.
However, they ARE mouthpieces and protectors of that system. Some in their ranks will fully understand this while others just subconsciously take the default and ‘normal’ standpoint.
I believe nothing will change until after Indy. The agencies of the UK State do not have the capacity to be impartial. They will continue to act counter to our cause either maliciously or unknowingly.
jfngw…too true.
Graemeo Rab says:
I believe the entire YES movement needs to take a firm stand on this. Anyone who doesn’t live in Scotland should be told to mind their own f’ing business! It should have absolutely nothing to do with them, and they should be told.
Like, May saying “now isn’t the right time”. The response to that should have been a firm, “no one is asking your opinion”, or whatever.
We shouldn’t engage with, or respond to, anyone who can’t vote here.
I think that attitude would go down well, personally.
Denmark aye looks enormous on these maps?
CameronB Brodie
Thanks for the reply, a very informative post, cheers!
Peter A Bell forgot about the 10lbs Hammer & Crowbar as well as the Big Red key , it wouldn’t be the 1st time the polis went on a raid only to find the door barred to them & had to send ah polisman back to the station for the Big Red key, it wiz Rid Faces all roon fur the Polis , now they avoid that & its on hand .
Just in case some peeps think things are getting too serious on here here is some “light” relief. 🙂
link to archive.is
Could not happen to a nicer person in my view! 😀
Does anyone know who else broke away from SiU, along with Clews, to form UK Unity?
How do we explain the extraordinary conduct of the Westminster Government under the Tory PM, Theresa May?
May’s term of office has been completely dominated by Brexit. Right? No,wrong. Brexit has been very carefully nurtured by the Government and its Propaganda Department so as to engage the attention of the British public, and in so doing to stop them from seeing that the Government is trying only to save Britain’s wealthy elite, the Establishment.
So, if it’s not Brexit, what is it then that explains the current madness that passes for Government in Westminster?
The answer is the DEBT.
At two trillion pounds of Government debt, the UK is in a very dangerous place, both economically and politically, but it is also in danger of losing social cohesion because the Government is making the UK electorate pay the debts run up by the bankers and the rest of the wealthy elite. And that is the Establishments greatest fear – a backlash from millions of ordinary people who refuse to take any more.
Add the 2 Trillion debt to leaving the world’s biggest and most lucrative trading bloc – which hasn’t kicked off yet – continue to sell off the NHS while lining the pockets of the 1%, and what have you got?
The UK is heading for a big breakdown.
galamcennalath @ 2.51
While I agree that there are many,many commentators on our vote who should be asked “what is it to do with you”?….
Erm … in this instance May was asked to hold talk’s aboot another Section 30 order that would potentially save a bit of time,money and effort after our Yes vote!
That’s when she said “now is not the time”!
Which is fair enough…. She was asked….it’s only polite…
Changes nothing pre vote,cause the time fur a mandate had passed and we got it….and she knows it….ho hum!
But in general we will be having a conversation aboot keeping our MPs at Westminster and staying with the term’s of the old 1707 Treaty…. or not….and yer right….it’s nothing to do with anybody else!
Its the business of the Scottish voters,and they should be the ones to have a thing to say aboot it.
Anyone else is just background noise and we should be very clear aboot that.
If the no voters have a case for keepin the the Treaty let them tell it…..sell it to us if ye like but they shouldn’t allow their message to get drowned out by other’s who don’t have a vote!
manandboy
The UK is heading for a big breakdown.
I certainly hope so!
Whether it be the EC,BBC OR IPSO the reality is we are dealing with the British state and all its nasty tentacles.
I would not trust a member of the EC to whurl me doon the street in a Tesco trolley. Me being a yes man and them being a naw person they wid coup me oot.
Even *if* BBC Scotland gave this story the attention it surely deserves, how would the average viewer make sense of it?
How many Reporting Scotland/GMS/Drivetime consumers could confidently state what SIU stands for?
Interesting developments regarding Katie Hopkins LA. I had just been reading a rather detailed article about ‘racial tension’s being raised in South Africa brought by a UK PR company called Bell Pontinger, who’s reputation and standing have been ruined and they. have been bankrupted by this affair. After they were hired by the Gupta Brothers in SA. This was the essence of what took place:
‘By the following year, Bell Pottinger was embroiled in a national maelstrom. In TV reports, editorials and public rallies, it stood accused of setting off racial tensions through a furtive campaign built on Twitter bots, hate-filled websites and speeches. All were pushing a highly toxic narrative, namely that whites in South Africa had seized resources and wealth while they deprived blacks of education and jobs. The message was popularized with an incendiary phrase, “white monopoly capital.”
What’s interesting re Hopkins is that she has ‘jumped’ in to SA on the back of this phoney campaign that was triggered by Gupta brothers aided by Bell Pottinger and others? I would go as far as stating that KH has been duped into believing that there was this ‘real’ backlash on the white population, but only because of a planted false narrative set off before her arrival on the scene?
Here’s a little more detail about their part in it. Article not archived (as I’m happy to have clicks for NYT journalism of this quality) for anyone interested in seeing some backstory that our media, as far as I’m aware haven’t covered at all?
‘Though the only corporate fatality, Bell Pottinger is just one of the companies tainted by the Guptas. A small coterie of multinationals is now under investigation by South African authorities, including local units of three companies, McKinsey, KPMG and the software giant SAP.
The Guptas’ most devastating legacy is the harm they did to the cause of economic reform. With so many blacks in South Africa mired in poverty, the topic is urgent, but discussion about it has been debased by its association with a notorious and self-serving P.R. campaign.
In the midst of that campaign, racial tensions rose to levels that had not been felt since apartheid. “White monopoly capital,” a phrase that for years had been confined to left-wing academic circles, was suddenly unavoidable. A political group with reported links to the Guptas warned of a coming civil war.
When Bell Pottinger’s role became public, protesters rallied against the company, both in South Africa and outside the firm’s London office. A subsequent investigation by the Public Relations and Communications Association, a trade group in Britain, ended with the ejection of Bell Pottinger.’
link to nytimes.com
Liz g says:
True. That was a bad example. There will be lots of clearer examples but I was just too lazy to go looking 🙂
A quick google shows Michael Fallon saying last Feb that they could block another referendum. Or Boris Johnson saying Mar 2016 that he rejected the idea of another independence referendum if the UK leaves the EU against the will of Scots.
None of their business, IMO. And saying so should be a definite policy.
Too much to expect BBC to mention that Robert KIlgour who is bumping his gums about care homes is a significant Tory donor and set up a Scottish business campaign group to oppose a future independence referendum, warning that supporters of union with the UK have become too complacent about the threat of secession.
The Scottish Business UK group founded by care home entrepreneur Robert Kilgour will announce this month the creation of an advisory board that includes a leading publisher and a former chairman of employers’ lobby CBI Scotland.
Losses suffered by the Scottish National party in June’s UK general election has been widely seen as killing SNP hopes for an early second referendum on leaving the UK.
But Mr Kilgour, who has already spent more than £30,000 to establish the SBUK group, said the independence push might quickly regain momentum.
“I still feel it is very much a real and present danger,” said Mr Kilgour, who believes that relatively late and limited interventions by pro-union corporate figures was a factor in the narrower than expected victory over independence in the 2014 referendum.
Also Think Scotland, a conservative-minded website is funded by Scottish unionist businessman Robert Kilgour.
Think Scotland is owned by former Tory MSP Brian Monteith.
Many puppets…ONE puppet master.
All I can say K1 is that she is in the best place for US.
Hope the South African government charge her and throw away the key afterwards. She is one evil hate filled xenophobic bitch from hell!
Using a battering ram on the guy’s door was WAY over the top.
The Electoral Commission’s response to the donations being ‘meh’ is equally ludicrous.
From one extreme to another as it were (and you can read that any way you like).
I think that Robert Kilgour became a tax exile after selling the Four Seasons group. Monaco i think, a very typical proud unionist tax avoided. Nothing spells unionism like avoiding tax!
I think what happened in the last GE, woke a few YES people up.
That wont happen again.
Vote SNP/SNP or YES, what ever comes first.
Whatever happened to the Scotland I grew up in where to a man and woman such phrases as “It’s they Bastirts doon in London”
were commonplace, nobody ever defended decisions made by any London government, nobody ever said they liked London government, nobody ever said “Let’s not strike” to curry any favour from a London government
Even my own mother born and bred in Wolverhampton until marriage to my Edinburgh father then came to Scotland to have and bring up her children because education in England was narrow and very poor had the same opinion, until something happened
The Scottish parliament,
but instead of our new parliament empowering the people of Scotland to move on from the tyranny imposed upon them from the English parliament they detested and had always made quite clear they despised, they begun to take sides against the very thing they had voted for which was a form of self determination by selecting their own politicians to represent them by opposing the thing they said they disliked
Now I’m only ordinary me and not some kind of Psychic but it seems to me that by taking part in any dealings with the London parliament it must have looked to many folk like why are we going to the expense of a Scottish parliament that we wanted to make things better for Scotland only to fill it up with representatives of the very thing we didn’t want , politicians who represent the people in the London parliament we used to call “They Bastirts doon there”
The SNP came to power and without doubt were and are the best thing that’s ever happened to Scotland ever, and yet the folk who originally complained about London rule now seem to want it back more than ever even though a deaf and dumb blind man wae a faulty dug can see that the London rule idea is positively mentally irregular and Scotland is doing way better in almost every respect and backed up by the rest of our own money and the support of other countries keen to join with us we’d be as sound as a big Scottish pound
We’ve always had the Orange nut cases but I remember when they hated London too, they might have espoused their love and undying loyalty to HM the Queen but they still despised London rule and that’s the thing that puzzles me, because nobody ever said they wouldn’t be allowed to be loyal to their Queen anymore if Scotland became Independent and they can’t complain that the SNP are all Catholic because we clearly aren’t, the SNP are the most diverse in ethnicity, religion and gender of all the political parties
So whatever happened to the people of the Scotland I grew up in
O/T
link to archive.is
If it’s okay for NI then it’s okay for Scotland. Anything less will be an outrage.
‘READ: Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit letter to Theresa May in full.’
”Dear Theresa
In light of the expected meeting this week of the UK Government Cabinet Sub-Committee on EU Exit Negotiations, I am writing to underscore the position of the Scottish Government that, short of EU membership, it is in the best interests of both Scotland and the whole of the UK to remain in the European Single Market and Customs Union.
Last month the Scottish Government produced “Scotland’s Place in Europe: People, Jobs and Investment” which presented our latest analysis of the damage that will be caused to Scotland’s economy if the UK exits the European Single Market and Customs Union. We understand from media reporting, that the conclusions reached in the UK Government’s analysis broadly reflect the Scottish Government’s findings.
I was therefore concerned to read further reports this week that the UK Government has apparently ruled out any form of Customs Union with the EU. The people of Scotland voted decisively to remain within the European Union, and it is the role of the Scottish Government to make sure that their interests are protected. It cannot be right that decisions on the future relationship with the EU are being taken without due regard for consultation across the four Governments of the UK in direct contradiction to the terms of reference of the Joint Ministerial Committee (EU Negotiations). Those terms of reference were to ensure a space for reaching agreement on a UK approach to, and objectives for, Article 50 negotiations; and provide oversight of negotiations with the EU, to ensure, as far as possible, that outcomes agreed by all four governments are secured from these negotiations.
To date the discussions in JMC (EN) have fallen far short of that ambition and of your own commitment when we met in July 2016 to ‘full involvement’. I expect that following the meeting of your Cabinet Sub-Committee there will remain full scope for the Scottish Government, and other devolved administrations, to influence the shape of the UK approach and objectives for negotiations.
In light of the timetable ahead of the European Council on 22 March 2018, there must be urgent and meaningful discussion between us to try to agree a UK position and therefore enable our European partners to respond.”
NICOLA STURGEON
link to thenational.scot
Petra says:
Clearly and powerfully states the SG position. However, it is part of a recurring cycle where the SG simply gets ignored.
Such items put the Scottish position on record, but I hae my doots it will have any effect!
At some point Nicola is going to have give up on talking to the Tories and move things on to the inevitable.
Petra says:
6 February, 2018 at 5:22 pm
‘READ: Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit letter to Theresa May in full.’
”Dear Theresa
Biggest issue though, Teresa’s got no idea what to do and we know this because,
link to independent.co.uk
Imagine a non tory UK gov or SNP Scots gov this catastrophically bad and how the BBC led tory media would shred them alive ?
Max Quaye from retweet on Rev’s twitter:
Want to understand what happens to ‘geographical trademarks’ like Scottish Whisky when we leave the EU customs and single market?
Read it and spread it far and wide, a simple thread that encapsulates ‘how’ Breixt really works, now…multiply that ‘harm’ by all other distinctly Scottish exports and we get?
Disaster:
link to twitter.com
K1, you completely forgot to mention how Jacob Zuma openly called for blacks to confiscate white land without compensation, presumably having more of an effect than an advertising campaign.
But, in all sincerity, it’s good that the focus is on the disgusting goodness gracious Guptas.
O/T
So this Carillon stuff being investigated today at WM –
I heard them say on the news that Sir Philip Green accepts the bulk of the blame for the situation – is that the same Philip Green who brought BHS to its knees???
How could he be allowed to repeat the situation with an even bigger company? He’s dismayed. apparently, word’s cannot explain how he feels about things
How many pensions funds have vanished while he has held the reins – and where else does he have “control” ?
Can’t believe he’s still allowed to be a C.E.O.
Simply, One Law for the RICH/POWERFUL/ESTABLISHMENT Etc and ANOTHER FOR EVERYBODY ELSE – AS PER USUAL.
Reluctant Nationalist at 0605pm – and you forgot to mention that the land had been stolen from the “blacks” in the first place. And the only compensation most of them got was a bayonet in the belly – and not just in Africa.
It would be a real shame if Lauri Love, or a n other, managed to hack the details of the SIU donors.
Re the use by Police Scotland – SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) of a “battering ram” – enforcer there’s this:
link to scotland.police.uk
Section 20.6.3 – Equipment – Public Order Rapid Entry Team:
“Method of Entry (M.O.E.) equipment – Enforcer and Hooligan tools ”
That would need to be read in context, and to get full context go to previous paragraphs, but clearly since “Format c:” would remove evidence quite quickly, Rapid Entry would be appropriate and even use of the enforcer, where seizure of computer equpipment intact with data was required.
“Hello David Clews, can we make an appointment please for tomorrow to seize your computer equipment” would seem to be a bad idea.
K1 says:
Do Brexiteers care? Of course not. The elites among them probably hold Diageo shares and stand to win!
They want the UK flooded with cheap imports which will lower prices and stimulate the economy. Domestic producers will simply go out of business. Steel and food have no hope. They further believe low wages, low regulation, low pound will help some other sectors. Export.
Only lunatics could come up with it!
BTW, I remember Port, Sherry, and Champagne in the shops which didn’t come from Portugal, Spain, or France. Fine to get pissed on, but definitely not the real thing.
I didn’t ‘forget’ to mention anything. I merely suggested that KH is a dupe in this game and is late to it. The fake campaign, Zuma, Guptas hand in glove and the PR Bellinger Rots et all have all played a hand in ‘raising racial tensions’.
As Bill McLean reminds us, this is an old old story. They merely exploit that history for gain and power.
Read the article, it wasn’t ‘just’ an ‘advertisng campaign’.
Reluctant Nationalist at 6.05
“White land”? In Africa? No such thing.
Ref Philip Green
Carrilion & BHS are actually 2 very dif people , by coincidence the same name.
So instead of one $hi£ , we have two useless $hits !
For the Rev’s case, and David Clews, computer equipment should be returned quickly as that can be a real burden on someone who is only a suspect.
For that however, it’s handling and production of evidence, and it would seem a sensible idea if the law was changed, so that police could clone the hard drives, memory sticks etc. with some sort of certification for the evidence trail, and if neccessary perform some sort of clean-up of sensitive data before return to the “suspect”. Not easy, but it could be done, with the use of “expert witnesses”.
Meg Merrilees
No, he is not that Phillip Green.
Quite so gala, quite so.
My wife is so looking forward to River City tonight.
What? It’s English football – again…..
The EBC is quite deliberately undermining Scottish football.
yesindyref2 says:
6 February, 2018 at 6:12 pm
Re the use by Police Scotland – SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) of a “battering ram” – enforcer there’s this:
link to scotland.police.uk
Section 20.6.3 – Equipment – Public Order Rapid Entry Team:
“Method of Entry (M.O.E.) equipment – Enforcer and Hooligan tools ”
That would need to be read in context, and to get full context go to previous paragraphs, but clearly since “Format c:” would remove evidence quite quickly, Rapid Entry would be appropriate and even use of the enforcer, where seizure of computer equpipment intact with data was required.
—————————————————————–
Format c: wouldn’t remove any data, any data on that drive would still be recoverable even after a format.
The EBC is quite deliberately undermining Scottish football.
We prefer the term, English cultural bullying. They’re old hands at it too.
But this is exactly what 55% Scots voted for.
Its maybe a kind of S&M thank you sir, can I have another kind of Scottish self loathing.
As I’ve said before, the Electoral Commission clearly are not independent,impartial and fair.
If there is an another indyref, the Scot Govt should look to the international convention on referendums for guidance and tell the Electoral Commission to go chase themselves, if they want to get involved in helping to rig it for the UK state.
Likewise chase the UK Govt with their pretendy legal agreement, the Edinburgh Agreement.
Format c: wouldn’t remove any data, any data on that drive would still be recoverable even after a format.
Just belting a drive with a hammer’s probably quite effective too, if you’re rushing, especially solid state drives.
Did I miss BBC Reporting Scotland’acknowledgement of Ian Blackford / SNP campaign to save the 10 RBS branches
“There is growing apprehension in Dublin that the guarantees given by the British government will be difficult to put into concrete legal form”
Irish Times
I have a feeling the whole world thinks the same as Dublin.
“A judge has rejected a bid from a cross-party group of Scottish politicians to review whether the UK can withdraw Article 50 on its own.”
Another £50,000 wasted on arguing the toss about rubbish. Just like arguing the toss about Sewel.
It’s a pity they shy away from Acts of Union 1707,The Claim of Right 1689 and sovereignty of the people of Scotland, combined with the UN recognised right to self-determination via democracy to challenge whether the Parliamentary Sovereignty ideology from the 18th century
or earlier can be legally challenged or whether this Parliamentary Sovereignty ideology can be defended in law.
Or is it just all made up political ideology that is used to justify ignoring Scotland’s democratic will eg we voted Remain, robbing Scotland of the Devo-max powers, and other devolved powers that should come from the the EU, and to justify treating Scotland like third-class passengers in SS Great Britain?
(Or should that be RMS Titanic?)
Good old Jackie Bird. Not a mention of the SNP/Ian Blackford/ScotGov in the work to save the RBS branches. Unite, the Community politicians, – of course, they did all the work. Great achievement. Cons John Lamont girning that it was only 10 branches safe for the moment.
The BBC would make you sick; at least STV gave credit where it is due.
WGD on britnat bbc and its maps:
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Fireproof Jim
Phew! that’s a relief but some coincidence to have two ‘Philip Green’ s or should that plural be two ‘Philip’s Green’.. Hmm.
@Graeme
Yes, you’d need a wiping tool, and even then it’s not entirely safe. A hammer and goggles might do the job all the same.
Another £50,000 wasted on arguing the toss about rubbish. Just like arguing the toss about Sewel.
Huh? Captain Hindsight there.
The law must be tested ya fanny. It’s our right to try.
We’ve had two official World Wars, the third one strung out and still ongoing, a holocaust, apartheid, Palestinian oppression, war on terror etc etc.
One thing that lingers longer in the human psyche, has caused equal, if not more misery than all the above, is the
Bloody British Empire.
We fucked up entire continents.
Just as an aside. Of the total land mass of South Africa, almost 79% of land suitable for farming or cultivation of any type ,is owned by white families..
Arbroath1320 says:
6 February, 2018 at 10:51 am
So just for clarification THESE are the members of the Electoral Commission who make these “incredible” decisions.
link to electoralcommission.org.uk
I am absolutely furious. There are commissioners there who have’nt had a CBE, Knight/Dame Hood or even a Lordship yet. Please correct this anomaly immediately.
Slightly off tack the Sunday Mail had an exclusive at the week-end. The Queen has banned straws!!!! How the mighty have fallen in order to grab express and Mail on Sunday readers. What drivel.
Five fundamental Brexit questions …
Are the Tories and voters willing to accept annual payments to the EU, forever, for market access?
Would the Tories compromise their Brexit wishes and go soft to ensure the Union/UK continues?
What kind of Brexit will it take to appease the hard right sufficiently to stop them campaigning?
Will Labour ever actually become relevant in the Brexit debate?
Will the EU declare the UK has reneged on the supposedly already agreed deal on the Irish border?
…. none of which will feature in MSM analysis!
Bob Mack says:
6 February, 2018 at 7:40 pm
Just as an aside. Of the total land mass of South Africa, almost 79% of land suitable for farming or cultivation of any type ,is owned by white families..
So just like Scotland then. But they do permit us to creep around the edges of their Scotland, which is something.
Dan Snow is a neo fascist with a serious war fetish. When you hear Brits explain that the UK won WW2, thank a super rich cash crazed daddy’s boy like Dan.
Re computer hard drive format, there are two types low and high level, a low level format makes it almost impossible to retrieve any data, so for example you are selling a computer that is the best option, assuming you have a copy of the operating system to reinstall it.
A high level format , the type you do when you type ‘format c:’ only changes the file allocation table and most if not all of the data can be retrieved, but the only 100% format is a big hammer.
I can also confirm its a great way of relieving stress 🙂
OK, was it just me or was BBC Scotland’s new weather map still slanted, hiding the country’s true size? Perhaps done to fully include Shetland but they wouldn’t need to do it if they cut off large swathes of Cumbria and Northumberland at the other end.
No surprise there Bob 7.40pm
White Anglo-Saxon Protestants pretty much set up all our modern flashpoints.
Dan Snow’s dad, the respected and animated journalist, has publicly distanced himself from his son’s politics.
He sees right through the money.
Just wandering around, and here’s a hard-line unionist from 2014, mentioned on these pages, with this to say in October 2017:
“None of this gives me any pleasure, but it would be a lie to say I can’t feel my internal chemistry beginning to change. I won’t be the only one. The Britain I argued for in 2014 is ceasing to exist, has made a monkey of me, is regenerating into an unattractively spivvy character – and it doesn’t seem to care, really. ”
Doesn’t archive so here’s the link.
link to newstatesman.com
I look around quite a lot and just read what people write, and the way they put things, and I’ll tell you this, there are lot questioning their previous firm beliefs, the way the UK Gov and the UK state are carrying on. Ultimately I’d say over 95% of the people of Scotland COULD vote YES next time, and everything that’s going on is stacking up to make that happen. It’s one of the reasons I’m starting not to post so much in previously unionist media, and when I do, I’m careful.
Gently does it.
The uneducated are the ones to fear. They are easily manipulated . Stoned out their brains with drink or drugs. Is it a British policy to have 20% of the the population incapable of making an educated decision. There lies the problem. Ken whit the problem is growing.
“It would be hard to argue with a cynical reader who suggested that the EC appeared to operate two very different sets of rules depending on who it was investigating.”
Rock (15th August 2014 – “When is a pot not a pot?”):
“The Electoral Commission is itself peddling lies on behalf of Better Together who don’t have the manpower to deliver them themselves.
The system is rotten to the core.”
“we find ourselves rather uncomfortable with the deployment of such an excessive display of intimidatory police force in the defence of the interests of the wealthy establishment.”
“So having been subjected to a ridiculous arrest (and completely spurious, months-long confiscation of electronic equipment) ourselves last year for doing our job, we didn’t view the raid with quite as much schadenfreude as readers might expect.”
Rock (13th June 2014 – “To the editor of the Scotsman”):
“Remember that you are now the 2nd biggest threat to the Establishment and they will do everything in their power to get you.
My advice to you would be to move to Iceland – NOW – and carry on your work from there.”
Rock says You are 100% correct Rotten to the core You only have to look into the people who control the EC . All tories. What worries me is the fact that the SNP government put their trust in the EC during the referendum this was despite numerous people airing concerns. My concern is still deeply rooted
Harry Mcaye @ 8.11
You are not alone, I noticed it too, in fact I rewound the weather piece to make sure I hadn’t imagined it after the ebc big news gave us in our full glory/size.
Capella,
“We can safely add the Electoral Commission to the list of “watchdogs” which neither bark not bite.”
Some do it with foresight, some with hindsight.
Rock (11th August 2014 “And smile, smile, smile”):
“That is the Electoral Commission further exposed as the unionist rogue it is, like the CBI and BBC.”
I believe the UK GUV do know what they’re doing on Brexit
They’re playing bluff poker with the EU and using us as their cards and crossing their fingers hoping the EU will fold
If the EU do fold the UK will claim glorious victory over Johnny foreigner, if the EU don’t throw in their cards the UK will claim aggrieved status using the Daily Mail to blame all nasty foreigners as the correct reason for leaving the EU because they’re all bad and undemocratic for not giving in to the glorious English Empire who saved them all from the nasty war
And of course all the saboteurs and ("Tractor" - Ed)ous backbenchers will be condemned right along with them, but the worst condemnation will be saved for Nicola Sturgeons secret interventions with the EU to undermine Englands glory
Off with her head and NO to any referendums now and forever Scotland shall not be free
This is just a guess mind!
r esquierdo,
“What worries me is the fact that the SNP government put their trust in the EC during the referendum this was despite numerous people airing concerns. My concern is still deeply rooted”
There will be no independence as long as the SNP plays by Westminster rules.
Will Nicola, a lawyer, ever have the guts to hold a referendum without Saint Theresa’s approval?
I very much doubt it.
Why would she want to go into exile in Belgium when she is fine here, flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen?
louis.b.argyll @ at 8:23 pm
You write: “Dan Snow’s dad, the respected and animated journalist, has publicly distanced himself from his son’s politics.”
Interesting, ‘useful’ potentially if true – but why, oh why do you give NO SOURCE?
And if I have missed it elsewhere in the thread – despite a word search – I apologise.
rock –you do sound like CA. quack quack. When does your shift end?
My advice to you would be to move to Iceland – NOW – and carry on your work from there.
Iceland shuts at 6 Rock, although the one on Victoria next to tesco’s open til 10!
stewartb,
I saw it myself on TV, can’t remember the context. During Brexit coup debate, tried to tar his old-man with his own right wing views. His dad was none pleased and made that very clear.
It the sitcom is Dad’s army we know who Craig is:
link to youtube.com
heedtracker,
“Iceland shuts at 6 Rock, although the one on Victoria next to tesco’s open til 10!”
Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, you are living proof that not all people in Scotland are stupid.
Thanks Rock! High praise indeed.
The National was great today, front page wise at least, if you know who SiU is. That’s maybe a weak spot in their header, who the feck are SiU?
The National left out how JK Trolling is also a SiU ligger too, which would probably have caught the interest more.
A signed copy of a JK Rowling novel must have gone for SiU mega bucks but it pales into nothing compared to,
link to archive.is
which really gave all the tory britnats o The Graun a funny feeling in their unionjack bathing suit areas.
I think of you Rock everytime I buy the National too.
Dan Snow is convener of political movement `More United`,
which helps fund certain Members of Parliament who subscribe to their ideology of a United Britain through a `market based economy`,
some of their funded MP`s,
Alistair Carmichael Orkney and Shetland,
Ian Murray Edinburgh South,
Jo Swinson East Dunbartonshire,
Christine Jardine Edinburgh West,
Jamie Stone Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross,
Stephen Kinnock Aberavon,
John Woodcock Barrow and Furness,
Chuka Umunna Streatham,
Owen Smith Pontypridd.
he bleats on and on about the glories of his Great blood soaked Brutish Empire and yet has Canadian citizenship having a Canadian mother.
Rabid Britnat brexiteers angry at foreigners daring to look after EU’s interests. Why can’t these foreigners realize britnats are superior to everyone else?!
Re;DrJim@9.07pm
Good guess and very possibly the actuality of it all.
Some great comments here today, re Heedtracker and all. Keep up the good work! 🙂 🙂
Heedtracker: “Iceland shuts at 6 Rock.”
Haha. I went looking for when you posted that the last time Rock mentioned Iceland so I could quote it, but couldn’t find it.
. Why can’t these foreigners realize britnats are superior to everyone else?!
They just are and you do not want to upset them, as JK Trolling explained in her £1,000,000 donation to a big fat liar, currently loathing round south side Glasgow.
No idea who the “we” is either, Trolling’s from Bristol, which at least gives her special insight into great britnat bitterness.
“If we leave, there will be no going back. This separation will not be quick and clean: it will take microsurgery to disentangle three centuries of close interdependence, after which we will have to deal with three bitter neighbours.”
First Canada, now Ireland:
link to irishtimes.com
Scotland must do the same.
Scot Finlayson says:
This definitely touches a raw nerve with me.
He has one Hell of a cheek. Non Scots campaigning to keep Scotland in a ‘United Britain’ is utterly abhorrent! It wreaks of imperialism and predatory nationalism.
Why? Because their ‘United Britain’ is not a partnership of equals. A Scotland in their Union can be out voted at every occasion and by governments we totally reject. Policies we don’t want can be forced upon us.
People who live in Scotland campaigning to remain in a Union is their right. People elsewhere should have no rights or say in Scotland’s future. It is for Scots to decide.
yesindyref2 @ 20:25,
Thenks for the interesting link. The quote from the reluctant re-thinker Deerin I particularly liked was this one:
Suits me. Bring it on!
Seems we need to make this position far better known among the PSBs. That they are being kept on by sufferance really (just don’t mention their plentiful assets).
We should also do more somehow to offend the aforementioned southern Brexiteers. Really put them to the test.
Haha. I went looking for when you posted that the last time Rock mentioned Iceland so I could quote it, but couldn’t find it.
Have I?! oh god, early onset time again:D
In the run up to 18 Sept 2014, the owner of Iceland was a routine, “Salmond’s a deluded chancer” guest on C4 teatime news, with Krishnan Guru-Murthy usually, the pair of them pissing hard on Scotland, becoming not a greater England region.
Thought that was one of C4 news tory’s sneakier vote NO propaganda shots really, with mega rich self made English dude, who makes his money off of the worst off, with clever little phoney pricing tricks and own brand Iceland brand food. A weighted vote NO you silly Scottish types, you need England far more than we need you and there’s 2p off a four pack of Heinz beenz.
How to overcome English propaganda indyref2 is certainly going to be fun. Hope Big Fat Blair comes out of retirement for Project Fear 2 and will JK Trolling cough up another million quid?
galamcennalath @ 22:48,
Your point about this being no union of equals is bang to rights.
I would have had a lot more time for the Dan Snows if post-2014 they had seriously strived to re-jig this motile constitution we are supposed to enjoy, and make it more fit for purpose in the light of what had just transpired. The Sunday after IR1 there was a high-falutin’ editorial in the Observer about how “the union would never be the same”. Aye, richt.
Instead the unionists did diddly-squat. Rowed back on even the little that they had promised. Did their level best to ignore and decry us.
Not content with that shameful betrayal, they then proceeded to launch a process of reckless self-harm which has only served to demonstrate that the UK has become an international laughing-stock with absurd neo-imperial pretensions.
The UK is a bust. High time to go our own way, and to hell with any promises (or threats) from the hapless crew of Dan Snow’s ship of fools.
The UK is a bust. High time to go our own way, and to hell with any promises (or threats) from the hapless crew of Dan Snow’s ship of fools.
Yes but the last thing our British elite wants or will permit is an actual democracy in their Scotland region.
Imagine how much these guys fear actual democracy, accountable elected democracy?
They probably realise they’re fighting rearguard actions from now on, all over the place but they probably aim to never see Scotland becoming an actual democracy in their lifetimes.
Its a lot of pressure to place on the BBC Scotland gimp network, if only because, everyone knows what they’re in Scotland to do.
Jon Snow is Dan Snow’s first cousin, according to the latter’s Wiki page.
I’m afraid I no longer respect him, given his antagonistic performances towards SNP spokespersons. He’s just as bad as the rest of the Channel 4 news crew, in my opinion.
Theresa May has announced a review of the future of the British newspaper industry, warning that the closure of hundreds of titles, particularly local papers, was a danger to democracy. The review will look at sustainable business models for quality journalism at a local, regional and national level.
From Irish Times:
“Speaking in Manchester, Ms May said that, when trusted news sources decline, society can become vulnerable to unreliable or untrustworthy news.
“Good-quality journalism provides us with the information and analysis we need to inform our viewpoints and conduct a genuine discussion. It is a huge force for good. But in recent years – especially in local journalism – we’ve seen falling circulations, a hollowing-out of local newsrooms, and fears for the future sustainability of high-quality journalism,” she said.”
You couldn’t make it up
“Speaking in Manchester, Ms May said that, when trusted news sources decline, society can become vulnerable to unreliable or untrustworthy news.
Its only our imperial masters ever so posh British mimicking Orange Hitler’s fake news monstering of any US media thats even remotely critical.
UK media’s doing a good job holding the pussy grabbing fascist Pres’s end up here in their UK and as ever, its the beeb gimp network that’s really got Orange Hitler’s back.
I think the UK will drag out Brexit negotiations then go for no deal forcing SNP to ref. without s30 thus rendering it illegal then returning devolved powers from EU back to the beefed up scottis h office with Mundell in charge and probably reducing greatly the power of Hollyrood
To Sinky and others who have made mention of someone called ‘Robert Kilgour’ in this thread, if you wish to get an insight into the complex, multi-layered nature of corporate control in private care home sector use this name in the search facility of Companies House at https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk and dive into the related company filing documents available on line at this same source.
I make no claims – from a brief look – other than one of seeming complexity.
There is a Robert Dow Kilgour – could be a different person (?) – as a director of the following companies:
“RENAISSANCE CARE (NO 5) LIMITED
SC440634 – Incorporated on 18 January 2013
Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB
RENAISSANCE CARE (NO 4) LIMITED
SC402102 – Incorporated on 21 June 2011
Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB
RENAISSANCE CARE (NO1) LIMITED
SC402097 – Incorporated on 21 June 2011
Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB
RENAISSANCE CARE (NO 3) LIMITED
SC402101 – Incorporated on 21 June 2011
Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB
RENAISSANCE CARE (NO2) LIMITED
SC402100 – Incorporated on 21 June 2011
Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB.
It seems that some entity called ‘Renaissance Care’ according to the BBC that runs the care home in Musselburgh that is, regrettably, to close. Hopefully a good solution can be found, and soon, for its residents.
Dipping into Renaissance Care ( N0 4) as an example, we learn from its 2015 filing that it is controlled by Renaissance Care (UK) Limited which is ultimately controlled by Dow Investments plc as a result of Dow’s controlling interest in Renaissance Care (Scotland) Limited because it in turn has a controlling stake in Renaissance Care (UK) Limited. Is that clear – is that complex? Dow Investments plc is controlled by a ‘Mr R D Kilgour’. Could this be the same Mr Kilgour who Sinky refers to @4.26pm?
Earlier this evening I watched on FB Lesley Riddoch give a talk to Yes East Renfrewshire: she was wonderful, she totally ‘gets it’. She talked about the Nordic countries, including the Faroes who really do have the most devolved parliament in the world because they can negotiate international treaties, which we can’t. And she said how small countries can have a great effect on world issues by using what is important to them to their advantage.
2 things from that: buy her book McSmorgasbord (sorry if that is misspelt).
She would be great to head up the next Yes campaign.
Looks like the EU are getting the message that the UK is not negotiating in good faith.
link to theguardian.com
Is this the talk you watched SP?
If not this is a really good talk with q&a from Lesley Riddoch, Yes Eastwood Inaugural event
It’s very good.
link to livestream.com
OT
Read the first two comments on this article
link to thenational.scot
and realise why all this bloody feminist anti-sexist stuff is still needed, and will be until that generation of slimeballs dies off or gets sectioned.
@ yesindyref2 …. “Posts in the National.”
Hellish or what? One wonders who these people really are and where they actually come from? It also stands to reason that the National will be a target for British nationalists, as is this site. Maybe it’s high time some of us (or more of us if you do so already) thought about posting on there.
There’s too many people being nasty on Twitter about us nice Tories and even all of us Union Politicians says Theresa May
Yet it’s funny how it’s the Unionist parties who actually hire and pay people to Tweet on bloody Twitter, who can forget Kezias very public appeal *Tweet for Labour and get paid*
To the best of my knowledge the SNP don’t pay anybody to do that, they have monitors but not folk who troll the web finding people to annoy
Now things have got so tough for Mother Theresa that she’s going to subsidise failing newspapers (guess which ones) with our money and the BBC is going to hire and supply these same newspapers with “journalists” paid for out of our taxes
This is like Scotland getting another Trident we don’t want except with a mouth we’re forced to listen to, do they not have enough propaganda as it is
@Petra
I was the third comment 🙂
James Dornan will be a good candidate for depute leader of the SNP, as would Ivan McKee if he stands, but here’s one that would set the MSM in a total tizzy, how about Alex Salmond? It’d be wall to wall headlines for months 🙂
On a prospectus of course, of full speed ahead for Independence and don’t spare the horses: “I’m giving her all she’s got, Captain! She cannae take anymore.”
Petra, I’ve said this before, I love reading the posts on here and the wealth of information all you guys have, and long may it continue. But we are mostly preaching to the converted. I’d love to see more of you posting in the papers, countering the unionist trolls. Many undecided readers are still be influenced by the lies. No subscription required, one minute to register and you’re in. Herald, Scotsman and National all have the green ink plants posting daily. Believe me, you guys would wipe the floor with them.
So the brexiteer nutters and fruitcakes in London are now in a spin, because it seems the EU is planning to impose strict regulations IF the UK does not adhere to the terms of its withdrawal agreement from the EU.
Well done, EU. They clearly know how Westminster works. Of course The London Government had zero intention of adhering to the terms of any agreement. That is how Westminster works – everybody has to stick to the rules, except England.
The brexiteers are just angry because they have been sussed. By their reaction, it is absolutely clear exactly how the London Government was planning to behave with regard to the EU.
Well done EU. More of the same, please.
Links
Have your say
link to consult.gov.scot
link to indyref2.scot
Lesley Rddoch talk
link to livestream.com
link to theneweuropean.co.uk
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
All eyes on Scotland as Brexit grows closer
link to archive.is
link to autonomyscotland.org
link to alynsmith.eu
link to politics.co.uk
link to politico.eu
Will not archive
link to independent.co.uk
link to eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk
EU plans to cut UK’s market access if Brexit transition terms broken
link to ft.com
Fury as fatcat boss of firm providing cars for the disabled takes home £1.7million
link to archive.is
link to politics.co.uk
link to taxresearch.org.uk
link to gq-magazine.co.uk
link to thecanary.co
1/ By chance I stumbled across European Commission’s “Notice to Stakeholders – Withdrawal of the United Kingdom and EU Food Law”
Pdf here
link to twitter.com
link to prospectmagazine.co.uk
The Electoral Commission was introduced as a protective buffer between professional politicians and the law. Complaints which used to be referred to the Procurator Fiscal (Crown Prosecution Service in England) are now passed to the Electoral Commission who decide if there is a case to be answered. The result is that polticians now escape legal action where previously they would have faced a court.
Readers may remember the farcical EC ‘investigations’ which exonerated Jack McConnell and Wendy Alexander on well-documented irregularities.
Good morning, Nana.
Sunny but cold here this morning. Thank you for your links.
Kettles on!
🙂
Good morning Smallaxe 🙂
Mornin’ Nana
Yeah, clocked that May piece and a few others on the subject besides.
“Trusted and credible news sources” sez yer akchul PM without a hint of irony.
link to archive.is
Oh, and this: Theresa May today called for a new legal crackdown on the abuse of politicians and other public figures on social media, saying that online “bullying” has now become a growing “threat to democracy.”
link to archive.is
Aaaaand this: “It is online where some of the most troubling behaviour now occurs … As well as being places for empowering self-expression, online platforms can become places of intimidation and abuse … This squanders the opportunity new technology affords us to drive up political engagement, and can have the perverse effect of putting off participation from those who are not prepared to tolerate the levels of abuse which exist.” (again without a hint of irony)
link to archive.is
There are abusive people out there in the interwebby and social meeja. No question. No argument. People who threaten acts of violence against individuals, demographics, communities, you name it. There are those who use language poorly to incite violence or violent response in others and once again, no dispute here.
If you were of a cynical persuasion however, you’d perhaps see the two subject matters above in a different light. Some folk may believe that what PM May is about has absolutely zero to do with civilizing debate and more to do with closing debate down. Closing down, not the psychopathic zoomers that Ms May’s own support aren’t exactly short of, but using their existence as an excuse to close down voices which prove dangerous to the political status quo. Closing down platforms where the public have a right of reply to the political class and their go to chums in the mainstream meeja.
Some would maybe be forgiven for reaching the conclusion that this is less to do with protecting the public interest and its sources of ‘trusted and credible’ information as supporting a mainstream media that has served the political class so well as their go to soap box and manipulation tool of choice.
If you were a cynical sod.
Good morning Macart, I guess you could call me cynical for sure.
Be afraid and remember we have a way out of this madness, hopefully soon.
INCIVIL CONTINGENCIES: #1 THE DICTATORSHIP
A series exploring a range of extreme, worst-case scenarios, their likely impact, measures the general public could take, and a likely final outcome…
link to byline.com
@Nana
Yes, they’ve taught us to be cynical right enough. Also yes, I do think this is about closing down avenues of dissent against the political class and media.
And HELL YES! We do have a way out of this madness. 😉
Not all of Spain treats their pigs badly! Here in Extremadura they are treated very well indeed.
link to independent.co.uk
Apologies it doesn’t archive
Last night I was at an SNP branch meeting in Prestwick where Bill Dale from Troon gave on excellent talk on reframing. I hope the SNP hierarchy get some training tips from Bill as he is a very knowledgeable man. We need to be ready and well trained to persuade the large minority of No voters who are open to listen and possibly change to yes.
Hamish100
My view is completely different from Rock’s.
He is critical of the FM for seeking a separate deal for Scotland.
I believe that is a completely democratic and legitimate course of action when 62% voted Remain. That is the issue that should be challenged in the courts, not whether Article 50 can be cancelled once triggered.
It’s the Soft Brexit I have issues with. The SNP should not support Brexit in any shape or form as that’s ignoring the sovereign will to Remain in the EU.
Good morning Nana.
So many LINKS, so little time!
Will have to catch up with them after work!
Have a good day.
Like the BBC, the North Britain newspaper fails to mention Ian Blackford or SNP in their coverage of RBS’s partial U turn on branch closures but quoted Labour’s Lesley Laird. FFS even the Daily Mail mentioned Ian Blackford on their front page.
Hootsman also has Ruth Davidson on again about our low economic growth and highest taxed part of UK.
O/T for info
Common Travel Area Ireland and UK
Common Travel Area
Information Note from Ireland to the Article 50 Working Group
Introduction
1.1 ?The Common Travel Area (CTA) is a long-standing arrangement between Ireland and the United Kingdom which enables Irish and UK citizens to travel and reside in either jurisdiction without restriction and provides for associated rights and entitlements in both jurisdictions. The Common Travel Area predates membership of the EU by both Ireland and the UK and is not dependent on it.
1.2?In part reflecting Ireland’s and the UK’s common law system, many of the arrangements and rights relating to the CTA are implicit, deriving from the status of Irish citizens in the UK and UK citizens in Ireland, and therefore have not been the subject of specific legislation or of an international agreement.
1.3?The CTA is recognised in EU law by Protocol No. 20 to the Treaty on European Union and Treaty on the Functioning of the EU. This Protocol 20 to the TEU and TFEU provides that “The United Kingdom and Ireland may continue to make arrangements between themselves relating to the movement of persons between their territories (‘the Common Travel Area’)…”
1.4?These arrangements exist alongside and complement the position of Northern Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement recognises “the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland”. CTA arrangements have therefore been essential in enabling people of Irish identity not to have to assert British citizenship rights in Northern Ireland in order, for instance, to establish the right to permanent residency in the place they were born or, following Brexit, the right to live and work there at all.
Origins of the Common Travel Area
2.1 ?Between 1801 and 1922, Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Notwithstanding the establishment of the Irish State in 1922, from a UK perspective, Irish citizens continued to be regarded as British subjects. As such, they had the same rights in the UK as UK citizens. Historically, therefore, following Irish independence Irish citizens continued to have a particular status in the UK, and it is this which has led to many of the CTA arrangements/rights being implicit, deriving from this status rather than from specific legislation or agreement.
2.2 ?At the time of independence, the Irish legal perspective on citizenship was different to that of the UK, with Irish born citizens no longer regarded as being British subjects. As a result, while Ireland shared the wish to maintain the Common Travel Area arrangements, the treatment of UK citizens in Ireland did not automatically mirror the UK arrangements for Irish citizens in the UK.
2.3?Although the 1922 definition of an Irish citizen did not encompass most UK citizens, UK citizens in Ireland were not treated as ‘aliens’ under Irish law. In practice they had a special status and for most matters were treated the same as Irish citizens with effect from the establishment of the Irish State. It was only with the introduction of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1935 that provision was made to allow for the granting of statutory reciprocity. This was eventually provided for by the Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies (Irish Citizenship Rights) Order 1949, which provided that UK citizens would enjoy in Ireland similar rights and privileges to those enjoyed by Irish citizens in the UK.
2.4?This general approach of reciprocity was facilitated by both states having the same common law legal tradition. All UK legislation in force in Ireland in 1922 continued in force post-independence and remains in force (to the extent that it is not inconsistent with the Constitution) unless it has been specifically repealed at some stage by the Irish parliament.
2.5 ?In 1948 Ireland declared itself a republic and revoked any role for the British monarch. Ireland was then regarded under British law as having left the Commonwealth. However, wishing to maintain the Common Travel Area arrangements, the British Parliament enacted the Ireland Act 1949. Section 2 (1) of that Act provides
“It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom …”
The status of Irish nationals was maintained under the Immigration Act 1971 and the British Nationality Act 1981.
Common Travel Area Arrangements
3.1 ?The basic principle guiding the operation of the CTA is that the Irish and UK Governments treat each other’s citizens in a similar manner to enable them to freely move between the two jurisdictions, and thereby reside and work in either jurisdiction, without the need for special permission. Associated rights, as well as ongoing cooperation between Irish and UK authorities, facilitate and support these arrangements. These arrangements have been in place since Irish independence, with the only period of interruption arising during and immediately after the Second World War.
3.2?The CTA includes arrangements for Irish and UK nationals to travel ‘passport free’ between the two jurisdictions. As part of this, the CTA operates, to some degree, similar to the Schengen zone, where immigration authorities in both jurisdictions cooperate to protect the borders of the CTA and prevent its abuse. Information is also shared on visa applicants, asylum seekers, citizenship applications and police watch lists. There is also a joint British Irish Visa scheme for certain countries and joint operations to target abuses of the CTA.
3.3?The arrangement, in line with the status of Irish and UK nationals in each other’s jurisdictions, also provides, broadly reciprocal rights on the freedom to reside, work and access services, including social security, health and education. Both countries generally provide for recognition of the other’s professional and academic qualifications.
3.4?Various reciprocal bilateral arrangements governing access to social welfare benefits have been in place between Ireland and the UK. These arrangements are based on the premise of equal treatment of nationals of both States. The rules in place have been designed to protect people moving between both States and to minimise any disadvantage.
3.5?The right to access the health systems in both the UK and Ireland depends on residence. There are no restrictions on residence of UK and Irish nationals in the other jurisdiction. A UK citizen resident in Ireland has access to public health services on a similar basis to an Irish citizen resident in Ireland. Reciprocal arrangements in respect of Irish citizens apply in the UK. There is extensive co-operation on a number of all-island and cross-border health care services due to the mobility of people on the island, the size of populations and the unique geography. This encompasses both emergency and non-emergency care, including planned treatment and emergency transfers on the island of Ireland and between Ireland and Great Britain. This may involve health professionals working in the other jurisdiction. There are also other arrangements for health co-operation.
3.6?Neither Ireland nor the UK is in the Schengen area. After the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, Ireland intends to remain outside of the Schengen area and will continue to fully uphold its obligations as an EU Member State. Protocols 19, 20 and 21 of the EU Treaties will continue to apply.
3.7?Analysis by the Irish authorities has not identified any legal barrier to the arrangements as outlined above being maintained in a manner fully consistent with Ireland’s EU obligations.?
2
Right now, Scotland is better served by the Irish news media than by those more local entities which are supposed to be fulfilling the role of reporting and informing.
O/T For those who watch Amazon Prime, the new ” Grand Tour” series something no one has commented on to my knowledge.
At the beginning of latest series, in fact at the start of all episodes, there is a moving cross country map showing the countries their team has been to.
It zooms through Europe showing their taken paths in the series.
It comes to Britain, surprisingly it shows Scotland as a separate country from the United Kingdom. Scotland is written in bold right across it, and border is shown.England is not called England but as the United Kingdom.
I am taken aback that the forces to be, are allowing Amazon to portray Scotland which appears as a different Country, probably will not last now. But maybe a sign of times coming. It is a wee bit uplifting.
So The MayBot, UKOKs ‘Strong and Stable’ Prime Minister regards the RBS bank closures as a ‘commercial’ matter for RBS ‘cos Internet Banking and stuff so f*ck local banking provision in towns losing their last bank.
but at the same time
She thinks that the closure of dead tree press is “a danger to democracy” and wants a review of sustainable business models for quality journalism at a local, regional and national level ‘cos they are losing advertising revenue to Internet News Platforms.
So only worth intervening in a businesses “comer decisions” if UKOK stand to lose a string of their Propaganda bow.
How very Tory.
Old Pete – glad that you found it useful. I have sent a summary to John W to distribute to branch members. My Reframing work is largely based on the work of Prof. George Lakoff in California, combined with over 40 years of experience in strategic marketing and management.
As I said in the talk, it is essential to have the facts to hand and Wings is the site par excellence for obtaining referenced information. Unfortunately facts alone are not enough but now you know what to do to use them on those who can be persuaded.
Also remember Triage, spend your time on the priority viz. those who could vote Yes in future, while keeping existing Yes people on side. Ignore those who are never going to be convinced.
Clootie,
I am starting a new job in Ireland next month. A couple of queries you may be able to help me with:
1. How long can you drive a UK car in the Republic before registering it over there?
2. Can I apply for Irish (EU) citizenship after a few years? (I have no relatives or family history in Ireland).
@Sinky says: 6 February, 2018 at 10:31 am:
“Electoral Commission is useless when it comes to taking on the Establishment.”
That’ll be because the Electoral “Commission”, (the clue is in the title), are obviously a part of that Establishment.
They are, as their title states, “commissioned”. – but who is it that provides that commission?
Just to make the point, try to find out the details of how they are funded via your chosen Search Engine..
(Hint:- It won’t be easy to track down).
Then have a wee look at who the individual commissioners, (that’s the paid Commissioned members), are.
Start with their chairperson and note, anyone who has a United Kingdom, “Title”, is a paid for, (£300 per day member of the House of Lords), before you even find out how much they get for their chairmanship of the Commission and their basic fee for just being on the Commission, not to mention what their expenses may rake in.
Independent?
Aye!
Richt!
They are as independent as Scotland is at present but they differs in that, while Scotland seeks to be independent, “The Commission”, most certainly do not seek independence from the Establishment they are an integral part of and an Establishment which pays them so handsomely for their services.
PMSL I wonder if the BNP/NF will be giving up eating Cheddar now that they’ve found a mature Cheddar Man , their origins ur BLACKIE ( no racism intended ) statement from the BNP/NF imminent shurelly lol.
BREAKING from Pravda Quay
with Union Jackie Kim Ono:
link to imgur.com
@Mike R says: 6 February, 2018 at 11:16 am:
“Alasdair Morgan is a fully paid up member of our local SNP party and a thouroughly nice guy.”
Indeed he is, Mike R, BUT –
Like the House of Commons he is just one member of a, “Commission”, that consists of nine members. Thus, like the commons, there is an 8:1 discrepancy in each and every decision they take.
Like Westminster, no matter how the Scots members vote, they will always be outvoted in every decision taken. The only benefit that Scotland gets from their membership in any Westminster Establishment set-up is that we have someone on the inside keeping tabs.
But note that, like the HOC, where the non-Scottish majority at worse drown out the Scottish voices with background chatter, and often jeering, and at best they just ignore anything, and everything, to do with Scottish interests.
Not to mention the deployment of EVEL that actively bars all non-English stuff being interfered with by Wales, N.I. & Scotland.
Proud Cybernat says:
7 February, 2018 at 11:59 am
BREAKING from Pravda Quay
with Union Jackie Kim Ono:
Good point. How come Teresa’s been mute for yonks about the fascists at the Heil relentlessly monstering immigrants and muslims, for example?
Heil fascists are just the tip of the tory tabloid sewer but lovely if you’re a fascist that enjoys looking at little girls in the underpants.
@Bill Dale
`Conversation not Confrontation`.
@ Luigi
11.02
Citizenship
I belief it is 5 years “reckonable residence” e.g. A student visa period does not count I belief
Basing UK reg’d car in Southern Ireland
You need to have owned and have proof of ownership for at least 6 months to avoid VRT.
To keep a UK registered car in Ireland you would still need to pay UK road tax and you can’t get road tax with a valid MOT certificate, the Irish NCT wouldn’t be accepted and they wouldn’t do an NCT on a UK registered car.
Your best be would be to buy the car in the UK and keep it for 6 months to avoid paying VRT, then bring it to Ireland. Register it there and get Irish plates then you can tax and insure it without any problems.
I wonder how many press “Barons” and their contributions to political parties lie behind the censorship of Social media.
Is this them hoping that people will have to return to their rags in order to get news and possibly boost circulation.
When you add this to the news that many new reporters are being hired to work as journalists and paid for by the BBC, it all begins to look very contrived,does it not?
@heedtracker
@Proud Cybernat
When the Tories say “threat to democracy”, they use the term democracy in the same way as they associate Westminster with democracy! It’s not a connection the rest of us see. Their notion of democracy bears little relation to ours!
It is true that the expanding online alternative to their diminishing legacy media is a threat to their system of government.
Of course they see that as a problem. The rest of us see it as progress.
o/t – Oh dear a open goal totally missed by Ian Blacford at PMQs .
In reply to a question about bank closures , this PM stated it was the fault of the SNP governments actions that people don’t have access to Internet banking ,
What a barefaced Lie , that wasn’t jumped on from a great height l
I know Ian must have had prepared questions but dear dear letting that Lie go unchallenged .
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