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Justice’s torn blindfold

Posted on February 06, 2018 by

So it seems we opened quite a can of worms when we broke the story of the Scotland In Union donor leak last month. Yesterday saw the disturbing tale of police armed with battering rams seizing computers and phones from David Clews of right-wing Unionist group UK Unity, a former SIU member suspected of being the source of the leak.

For the record we have absolutely no idea if he’s the source or not (and we don’t know who is – the file was passed to us anonymously through a now-deleted email account), but however much of a mad zoomer someone might be we find ourselves rather uncomfortable with the deployment of such an excessive display of intimidatory police force in the defence of the interests of the wealthy establishment.

Clews might be a Unionist – and a fairly unpalatable one at that – but we very much doubt it was ever going to be necessary to smash his door down, and it’s striking to see the magnitude of the state’s reaction against one of its own the moment they might step out of line and do anything to displease either the titled and landed gentry who provide most of SIU’s money, or their loyal bootboys.

So having been subjected to a ridiculous arrest (and completely spurious, months-long confiscation of electronic equipment) ourselves last year for doing our job, we didn’t view the raid with quite as much schadenfreude as readers might expect.

But it wasn’t the most disturbing thing to arise from the story.

Because yesterday also saw revelations about how SIU’s chief executive Pamela Nash, former Labour MP for the Protestant stronghold of Airdrie and Shotts, had (with exactly the level of indignant “how very dare they?” pique one might expect) attempted to bully the Electoral Commission as it investigated the legality of the group’s donations, none of which had been publicly declared despite it being a regulated campaigner in the last three general elections.

(Despite at least £150,000 having been received during the regulated periods for which large donations must be disclosed.)

And as an FOI request from investigative site The Ferret – published by The National and the Herald – showed, they’d had some success.

Despite SIU breaking the rules by a non-trivial amount – 33% above the spending limit – the EC decided to shrug its shoulders and not pursue any penalties.

Alert readers may recall that when this site similarly failed to satisfy the Commission regarding a spending return for the 2014 independence referendum – and we DID send in our full and accurate spending details before the deadline, but the Commission declined to accept bank statements as proof and demanded documents that we didn’t possess – we were ticked off and fined, much to the Scottish media’s glee.

But that still wasn’t the most alarming bit. Because the email exchange uncovered in The Ferret’s FOI revealed that the Electoral Commission wasn’t even going to bother trying to get hold of the evidence for its investigation, but was instead simply going to rely on SIU to ‘fess up voluntarily.

It would be hard to argue with a cynical reader who suggested that the EC appeared to operate two very different sets of rules depending on who it was investigating.

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  1. 06 02 18 11:56

    Justice’s torn blindfold | speymouth

382 to “Justice’s torn blindfold”

  1. Andy Anderson says:

    The State pays the wages of the EC Stu, and the State is supported by the wealthy, be that State governed by a Conservative or Labour pack of numpties. There has been lots of double EC standards over the last few years.

    Keep up you good work please.

  2. bobajock says:

    Times have changed eh?

    Its the clangingly obvious nature of their obsequious pro-yoon approach.

    Actually pitiful – ‘electoral commission’ – laughably anti democracy.

  3. Macart says:

    One rule for… etc.

    So which is it?

    The EC are:

    1. To afraid to pursue
    2. Can’t be arsed because… reasons.
    3. Have several very separate and selective sets of rules to apply depending on subject.
    4. Are completely toothless.
    5. All of the above.

    Answers on a postcard.

  4. Macart says:

    Should read ‘Too afraid’. (shrugs)

  5. mogabee says:

    It stinks. This whole establishment stuff stinks. In fact, sulpher, the first smelly indication of Beelzebub doesn’t stink half as much as SiU does.

    Cynical? Damn right and raging too. Where is the fairness..oh silly me. :{

  6. Bobp says:

    I believe the EC are guilty of bias and discrimination.

  7. Sinky says:

    Electoral Commission is useless when it comes to taking on the Establishment. That’s why the Lib Dems get away with breaking the spending limits by applying what is clearly constituency expenditure backing West Edinburgh’s Cole Hamilton to Regional election expenses.

    With numerous wealthy benefactors, well beyond that of other parties, the Tories have the capacity to set up as many campaigning groups as suit their needs in influencing the media and electorate.

    Therefore donations to different bodies with the same, or similar objectives, should be aggregated for the purposes of transparency to place all parties on the same footing.

    This is a major scandal but the Unionist press aren’t interested.

  8. winifred mccartney says:

    Has the EC had a nod and a wink and maybe a handshake about who and how much any organisation/person is to be investigated. Remember the State IS the union, it is in a state but might is power especially when you hold all the cards, bbc, msm, state civil service, state authorities and of course all the hidden, illegal money to play with to make sure it is your way or the highway.

  9. Bobp says:

    As.someone before said on here,, BBC, etc etc, now this mob, all supposedly ‘neutral. Are nothing but westminster stooges. But people can now see through these liars and manipulators for what they are.ENEMIES of Scotland. The smell of fear is strong.

  10. HandandShrimp says:

    A kindness might be to suggest that the Electoral Commission don’t care because they think SiU are irrelevant wing nuts, peripheral to politics.

    An unkind thought might be that the EC are corrupt.

  11. galamcennalath says:

    The David Clews affair proves that the primary objective is not to protect their Union but to shield the establishment elite and the power they have accumulated. They view their Union as a construct within which that defence can best achieved.

    The Union is perhaps only important to them as a means to that end.

  12. Kangaroo says:

    It’s the ‘Two sets of rules depending on whichnside the offender is on’.

    Sucks but how do you sort it?

    Postcard answer for those watching.

    a) Publicity which embarrasses and shows them up so no-one trusts them anymore, and/ or
    b) demand a refund or the imposition of penalties.


  13. One_Scot says:

    Just more evidence of how corrupt the British Establishment is. I genuinely do not know how reasonable minded Scots can vote to remain part of this corrupt and damaging union.

    If Scotland cannot secure a better future for its children next time, then maybe we are too stupid.

  14. Arbroath1320 says:

    So just for clarification THESE are the members of the Electoral Commission who make these “incredible” decisions.

  15. Les Wilson says:

    This must take a hard look at the EC in our next Referendum, or,
    we will flatly be cheated again. We need reputal internationally un biased observers and a water tight voting system. Blockchain seems the best secure option, but I do not know how that would work or not.

    One thing is for sure all UKOK proxies will be out defeat us by any and all means possible.
    We need an answer that will overcome their treachery and I can only hope the SNP are well aware of the issues and take steps to nullify at least the most of it. Whatever we do, it needs put in place soon.

  16. jfngw says:


    The EC are part of the Establishment it would seem, they are there to give a veneer of accountability to the political parties they see as fit and come down on any they see as a threat.

  17. galamcennalath says:

    The Electoral Commission are yet another UKOK institution which will become irrelevant in iScotland. It (they all) will be replaced by new fit for purpose organisation(s).

    There needs to be a mechanism which ensures true independence of public bodies. The EC is defined as independent of government but answerable to parliament. With the ridiculous FPTP system at WM, government and parliament are in effect one. Also, WM with its HoL element is representative of a much narrower group that ordinary voters.

    In iScotland we can get these things right! In UKOK they will never be sorted out.

  18. Street Andrew says:

    When ‘authorities’ cease to have authority because they have lost the respect of the people, we are in trouble.

    And there’s a lot of it about. Official lying has become endemic.

  19. Ian McCubbin says:

    Never thought EC was much use. Like many quangos they jist toady to government of the day to keep funding and jobs.
    Lets hope in an independent Scotland we dont need them as we have a gov dept ethically regulating elections with a lobby at Holyrood if all is not good.
    On another note related will you run a set of articles lookingvat candidates for SNP depute leader

  20. Kevin says:

    I suspect the FOI exchange published by the Herald, describing a very convenient ‘clearly in the wrong’ indignation from Pamela Nash, will cover the Electoral Commission’s back; ‘Look how seriously we take this matter’.

    At the risk of sounding smug – whilst hoping I’m completely off the mark – I felt while reading the Herald article; “This decision’ll be going the way of SIU”..

  21. galamcennalath says:

    Arbroath1320 says:

    the members of the Electoral Commission,-June-2017.pdf

    … folks can make their own minds up about the appropriateness of this mix.

  22. manandboy says:

    Led by Sir John Holmes, the ten members of the Electoral Commission are, de facto, fully paid up members of the British Establishment, which is currently fighting for its life. The EC is not going to lift a finger against anyone seeking to maintain the Union.

  23. Muscleguy says:

    I take your point but I am actually mildly impressed that the polis are being even handed when going to arrest white collar vs blue collar suspects. Note he did not say that the ram was deployed. I assumed he opened the door sharpish when the flashing blue lights impinged on his consciousness.

    He simply clocked that the polis brought a ram with them, just in case. Who knows, maybe he was going to kick off or might have been in the middle of assaulting his partner or something necessitating a fastish entry of the premises. The polis is not to know.

    Back in NZ the police are not routinely armed, except there is a shotgun locked in ALL patrol cars and rural police are pretty much routinely armed, all the farmers are you see. Arms equal. Everyone knows this. So unlike Aussie cops who carry sidearms routinely NZ cops do not. But they are not unarmed.

    Getting the vapours over the police taking reasonable precautions in an unknown situation is snowflake behaviour. If the polis came to arrest me at home and *didn’t* bring a ram I would be mildly affronted and pout a bit.

  24. heedtracker says:

    Horrible. How did plod know it could be him anyway?

    That red tory idiot doesn’t look much of bully but its interesting how her wiki write up leaves out her Scotland in Union stuff completely. Yoons are an odd crowd, red or blue tory.

  25. Reading Yanis Varoufakis book,`Adults in the Room` (My battle with Europe`s deep Establishment),

    early on Yanis is asked the binary choice “are you an insider or an outsider”

    simple question,no long prose of what`s right or wrong what`s moral or immoral are your politics right wing or left,

    simple question,

    if you are an `insider` you get protected by Establishment (if it benefits the Establishment) and you in turn must protect the Establishment,

    an `outsider`,like Yanis and Stu,have no protection and will be fair game to be attacked from all the minions of the ubiquitous Establishment.

  26. Mike R says:

    Alasdair Morgan is a fully paid up member of our local SNP party and a thouroughly nice guy

  27. heedtracker says:

    If the polis came to arrest me at home and *didn’t* bring a ram I would be mildly affronted and pout a bit.

    You do go on muscleguy.

    You’d fill your kecks if a load of busy’s turned up at your gaff, meat wagons, tooled up, body armour, stun guns, stun grenades, lightsabers, police dogs:D

  28. @Arbroath1320
    Interestingly, the EC’s Scotland page has a description of their activities in English (language) but with an optional introduction in Welsh. Weird?

  29. James D says:

    Serious questions should be asked in parliament regarding this matter – both Westminster and Holyrood!

  30. Proud Cybernat says:

    Wasn’t the EC’s IndyRef1 ‘communication’ sent to every home in Scotland accused of being pro-Union? Can’t remember the details.

  31. Giving Goose says:

    What I don’t fully understand is the involvement of Pamela Nash as SIU’s chief executive. I’m probably answering my own question here, but are Labour politicians actually so embedded into the London British Nationalist Establishment that they will justify and associate themselves with Stasi type police actions?

  32. Robert Louis says:

    The British Nationalist establishment in full flow. That is what this is. It is merely a reflection of how corrupt our English masters in London are.

    Then their is Dan Snow. Who knew he was a supporter of ‘scotland in union’. Well, well. Of course now we know why the British nationalist media are so keen to hand him cushy jobs scuttling around the world making exceptionally partisan, patronising and boring documentaries.

    I do not doubt that in final year at oxbridge, the ‘right’ people are hand-picked to take a supplementary class on ‘how to milk the British establishment’.

    This is how the British establishment works. It is how it has always worked. At the very top is the unelected and unaccountable aristocracy, including lizzie Windsor saxe-coburg, who maintain their position through patronage, honours, titles, ermine robes, baubles, bribery, corruption and London’s gold.

    The electoral commission is the proverbial chocolate teapot of democracy. It merely adds a veneer of respectability to the corrupt ‘British way’. We should not be surprised.

  33. Did I read the other day that there are still two Masonic Lodges active in WM for politicians and journalists?
    Of course the game’s rigged for the Wealthy and the Elite.
    Grow up guys. I seem to remember there was a stushy over the Polis and Judges being members of the Mafia for the Mediocre several years ago.
    This is the real enemy of Scotland’s freedom. You X in a box counts for nothing to these people.
    and by that I mean All Unionist Right Wing secret societies.

  34. Peter A Bell says:

    I’m slightly taken aback to find Stu Campbell being taken in by the hype about the battering ram. This is a standard piece of equipment that would commonly be carried in the type of vehicles used in such raids. It would be surprising if officers didn’t go equipped to effect forced entry should this be necessary. Does Stu think the police should send somebody back to the station for an ‘enforcer’ should they find they need it?

    The squad carrying out that raid would also be equipped with batons, incapacitant spray and, quite possibly, tasers. Why no hysterical fuss about that? Because these things are standard equipment? Well, so is the battering ram. Because these other items were not deployed? Well, neither was the battering ram.

    The battering ram is given prominence solely for the purpose of adding a bit of drama. It’s mentioned only to elicit a knee-jerk reaction. Best not to let them press your buttons quite so easily.

  35. HandandShrimp says:

    Wot? No Photon Cannons?

  36. heedtracker says:

    Peter A Bell says:
    6 February, 2018 at 11:30 am
    I’m slightly taken aback to find Stu Campbell being taken in by the hype about the battering ram. This is a standard piece of equipment that would commonly be carried in the type of vehicles used in such raids.

    How do you know this though Peter?

    A lot of assumptions going on here about police procedures. You see cops all the time visiting people at home, for all kinds of reasons, even traffic offences, you never see them waiting outside with a battering ram.

    It’s a very clear signal from whoever it is that ordered this raid, don’t mess.

  37. Legerwood says:

    O/T apologies to do it so soon

    Article in Business section of the Telegraph today:

    “”The UK is sitting on natural assets worth £761bn””

    Sorry it is one of their premium articles so cannot link to the whole thing but might be useful to see what it says especially about Scotland and oil if anyone can get it.

  38. galamcennalath says:

    One anti-Scottish Establishment reversal. The return on accurate weather maps …..

  39. Meg merrilees says:

    Posted earlier on a previous thread but not sure what one is ‘trending’ just now hence repost.

    Did anyone hear Nicola on BBC R4 this morning?

    Nicola was on the Today programme ( first hour) but I was unable to listen at the appropriate time. However, if you read the Guardian website it says…

    ‘Today’ BBC R4 an all woman programme -presenters and guests- including A.N.Other, the PM of New Zealand, Baroness Shirley Wotsit, founder of LibDems and Amber Rudd.- guess who ignored!

    Back to theBBC, interestingly, I heard Amber Rudd being interviewed around 8.15am…

    and I paraphrase..

    Presenter: So Nicola Sturgeon is concerned that she has not been consulted about the No customs Union decision

    Amber: Oh, no, she has been consulted

    Presenter: She said earlier this morning that she had not been consulted..

    Amber; no, she’s wrong, she has been consulted..

    Presenter: well, she thinks that she hasn’t..

    Amber: Well, she really has been consulted and it shouldn’t come as a surprise to her because all the devolved bits have been involved in a lot of discussions..

    Presenter well… I really should ask you this again but you’re clearly not going to say anything else..WAFFLE WAFFLE…

    Amber: I promise Nicola sturgeon that she will be consulted.

    Thankyou very much, Amber

    Hatchet job completed, honestly, short of calling Nicola a liar… really biased broadcasting.
    OBE’s all round.


    Jack Collatin

    Lord Adonis tweet from 4TH FEB

    Freemasonry that matters at Westminster is the Farage/Mogg lodge which now embraces most Tory MPs. Part of UKIP reverse takeover of Tory Party: hence Mrs May forced to rule out any Customs Union. Economically ludicrous & breach of the Good Friday Agreement!

    actually a fascinating twitter site to read about the WM shenanigans.

  40. Robert Louis says:

    Peter A Bell at 1130am,

    Are all those items really standard equipment for the execution of a search warrant in Scotland? Really? It would be for a known/suspected violent criminal or terrorist, but for such a case as that above? Hmmm…

    Can anybody with actual knowledge confirm this?

  41. Meg merrilees says:


    Aye, an’ it’ll be compulsory membership of the Flat Earth Society next. We seem to be spinning backwards…

  42. stu mac says:

    @One_Scot says:
    6 February, 2018 at 10:48 am

    If Scotland cannot secure a better future for its children next time, then maybe we are too stupid.


    With c. 47% in favour of Independence these days, you ought to be more careful in your use of “we” there.

  43. Arbroath1320 says:

    Any one concerned about the police using the Big Red Key a.k.a. the battering ram need only watch Police Interceptors. Quite often the programme goes on a raid with the interceptors and they ALWAYS go “armed” with the Big Red Key. I will say however that although they always take the BRK to the premises it is not always needed. If the door is found to be unlocked they will just walk in bearing in mind that they have a search warrant with them.

  44. Robert Graham says:

    getting the feeling someone is playing with a marked deck and loaded dice here , that cant be true can it ? .

  45. Meg merrilees says:

    Judge has rejected Scottish court case to discover whether Article 50 is reversible. Claimants considering Appeal to Inner Court of Court of Session.

    The query is that should MP’s, MSP’s and MEP’s wish to reject the final Brexit deal, there needs to be clarity as to what any possible alternatives are available.

  46. Bill not Ben says:

    Well George Orwell told us all about room 101, the way its going we will be getting rooms for us all, right up to room 201 and beyond, beware the eyeballs in the sky !

  47. galamcennalath says:

    Meg merrilees says:

    Judge has rejected Scottish court case

    That surprises me. The Tories are saying from this point in there are only two outcomes – Leave with their deal, or Leave with no deal. That can’t be true! This action, when referred to the ECJ, could have clarified that a third option of just Remain is still available.

    The judge appears to have accepted the Tory position that Brexit is definitely going to happen, whatever.

  48. Robert Graham says:

    getting the feeling someone is playing with a marked deck and loaded dice here , that cant be true can it ? .

    Well it’s their Baw and their game I dont think we can expect any fairness from them

  49. Graeme says:

    Robert Louis says:
    6 February, 2018 at 11:40 am

    Peter A Bell at 1130am,

    “Are all those items really standard equipment for the execution of a search warrant in Scotland? Really? It would be for a known/suspected violent criminal or terrorist, but for such a case as that above? Hmmm…

    Can anybody with actual knowledge confirm this?”

    I don’t have first knowledge of this but it could be standard equipment if there is to be a seizure of goods like ie a drugs bust incase they try to dispose of evidence before the police gain entry, the same could apply to a computer incase the suspect tries to destroy it before they gain entry

    Just a thought

  50. Bob Mack says:

    The fact is that these beaurocratic organisations are just another tentacle on the octopus that binds us to the British State. The State run and own everything. They own the law. They own the enforcers of law . They own the media and their regulators. The Civil Service and all the mechanisms of State..All belong to Westminster.

    That is a fact we cannot escape from. It certainly makes the fight more difficult.but being a Glasgow lad,I will fight anyway. Matter of pride you see.

    We have already burst the nose of the press. Who s next?

  51. JPJ2 says:

    No question in my mind that any UK body is increasingly inclined to regard itself as defenders of the UK state and will bend the rules as much as possible to achieve that.

  52. Dr Jim says:

    When the British state doesn’t want you to want what you want, they find ways to stop you wanting what they don’t want you to want, or they’ll even kill you to make you stop wanting, if they want

  53. Effijy says:

    The State only crashed down the door to ensure that they gather any evidence of corruption that might go public.

    Once found they can then destroy it before saying nasty Nats
    made unfounded allegations against the poor man.

    1984 is alive and well in Tory England and its Colonies.

  54. HandandShrimp says:

    I think the EC has set an interesting precedent here. One that I think will be used by various political groups in the future.

  55. Dan Huil says:

    British nationalist corruption. The stench of britnat hypocrisy is boke-inducing. Whether it’s the anti-Scottish media or anti-Scottish politicians or anti-Scottish rich-people’s clubs the stinking foundations of the rotten so-called united kingdom continue to crumble away.

    Thank god for WOS and other pro-indy sites. We must keep up the pressure. The Scottish government has begun to play hard-ball; it must increase effort in such tactics.

  56. artyhetty says:

    A battering ram sounds extreme, unless the guy was a huge drugs dealer, or terrorist or something.
    Don’t worry, it’s all likely staged, so they can justify battering their way into any independence bloggers’ houses should they see fit, and no one can say boo hoo, how unfair. Nothing will come of their battering ram raid, waste of police time and money.

    Stuart has been treated appallingly in recent times, for calling out the liars, and for exposing those who are meant to regulate processes such as voting being fair and equal, and the establishment don’t like that. Not for any wrongdoing but as a journalist in 21st century UKOK.

    When an organisation, or media or government regulates itself, then you are not seeing a democracy at work, not in any shape or form. We are definitely not functioning on a level playing field, it’s not healthy, it’s incredibly backward and it’s way out of hand now.

  57. Liz Rannoch says:

    @ JPJ2 12.18 and @ Dr Jim 12.21

    Yip – reasons I wish Scot Gov would remove its business with this lot:

    Especially when you consider who’s got his fingers in the pie:

  58. gus1940 says:

    RE the comment above regarding The BBC returning to a flat map – if one clicks on the link to the article it is obvious that although they have returned to a flat map Scotland is still as out of proportion as it was on the slanted Bay Of Biscay view – Just compare the image of the new flat map with the one further down with Bill Giles.

  59. Juan says:

    Scotland In Union used to have a Gplus account (like Facebook but Google owned). They had only 16 followers. There was only ever one post on this site and one commenter, who repeatedly questioned “Why shouldn’t Scotland be independent like all NORMAL countries?” and “Why has a “popular”, and financially flush “grassroots” organisation have so few followers?” 16 is not a lot from 5 million plus Scots.

    Can’t think why they’d take their site down.

  60. Macart says:


    Interesting concept. It will probably be known as the Yoon defence. A defence which mainly consists of some bod stating that they have a hat load of cash and clout, now kindly be on your way my man.

    Deceptive in its simplicity and unquestionably effective. 😉

  61. Dr Jim says:

    Suffragists the peaceful movement for *equality for women*
    Suffrajettes who for the same reason as above broke the law using Violence Arson and Criminal damage

    Anybody noticed who gets the biggest respect

    Not judging or advocating just saying

    The lesson here is obviously if we want Scotland to become Independent we should send (ask) our women down to kick the shit out of them

    How can the UK say no

  62. X_Sticks says:

    The Electoral Commission is a fully paid up member of the british establishment. It is there to protect the british establishment from the likes of those nasty, anti-British SNP.

    Don’t expect to win the next referendum if they are involved. We won’t.

  63. One_Scot says:

    Lol, from the Sun, ‘The tilted version has been baffling viewers for more than a decade’ – ‘except for viewers in Scotland’ that is, especially the ‘wise to the BBC’ non unionist ones.

  64. galamcennalath says:

    If the Electoral Commission were any good they would ensure ALL non-party campaigners who spend more that £10,000 have to register and produce proper spending documentation.

    How do partisan newspapers avoid registering? And for that matter, biased broadcasters?

    Why is WoS expected to register and the highly biased Telegraph isn’t?

    Then there is the BBC – hammerer of Scots and promoter of far right loonies!

  65. Richard Hunter says:

    People tend to take the easiest route if they can. Harassing WoS is probably fairly easy, and it will likely gain plaudits from from various media and political quarters. Doing the same against an organisation with links to powerful people probably looks like to much hassle.

  66. schrodingers cat says:

    re bbc weather map

    the ridicule finally got to them 🙂

  67. Richard Hunter says:

    There is a sweet irony about Clews being brutalised by the very institution that he so reveres

  68. Bob Mack says:

    I wonder if Mr Clews is feeling quite as British this morning as he felt last week ?

    The process of erosion can remove a ledge you are standing on right enough. I watch as the British State daily pour water on their own chalk ledge

  69. K1 says:

    Henceforth her title: The Moronic Mone.

    Is there no end to her lacks.

  70. galamcennalath says:

    @Dr Jim

    I didn’t realise there was a distinction in groups.

    Suffragettes and suffragists.

    Would female suffrage have been achieved peacefully without the militancy? It would be nice to think so!

  71. Capella says:

    We can safely add the Electoral Commission to the list of “watchdogs” which neither bark not bite. Alongside IPSOS and Ofcom they serve as filters to sift out the irritants who have the temerity to question what our imperial masters are doing, in secret.

    In fact, they seem to serve to drain off legitimate criticism into a bottomless pool of despond. Maybe they also serve to identify potential “troublemakers”.

    The dawn raid on David Clews is disturbing.

  72. Dr Jim says:

    Had the Suffragettes been men they would have been terrorists and outlawed imprisoned then very likely forcibly disbanded or even shot

    Equality is a funny road to navigate when you start making comparisons between the the things you’re trying to make equal, in my experience the people who have oppressed others whether women or men has generally been their own gender

  73. heedtracker says:

    Would female suffrage have been achieved peacefully without the militancy? It would be nice to think so!

    Female suffrage in the UK is being “celebrated” by extremely reactionary tories today, not just BBC.

    But the fact is, this is all from a British Imperial fascist era, where over 2 billion British Imperial subjects would never get near a ballot box, anywhere in the British Empire, around the globe.

    We have to listen to the UKOK tory propaganda about the Palace of Westminster being the mother of all parliaments but ofcourse it is not.

    It is fundamentally a memorial to a vast fascist empire, all of it controlled by the Edwardian tories, today venerated for “giving” some women in the British Empire the vote.

    British fascist Imperialism is being airbrushed out of the teamGB memory, just like they’ve done with slavery.

    Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

    Or, why are these liars lying to us now.

  74. Bob Mack says:

    Woman’s suffrage would never have been achieved except for the war. The necessity to have them work in the factories and in all fields of maintenance of the functioning of the State, empowered them beyond rebuttal.

    Up till then they had been subjected to every indignity mentionable to keep them in their place, servile and subjective.

    They won, and so can we.

  75. Dr Jim says:

    Reporting Scotlands weather map still shows that Glasgow is about the same distance from Edinburgh as it is from Fort William

    The actual distance is around double from Glasgow to Fort William than Glasgow to Edinburgh

    They must not have got the same digitals as the English weather people, still if you enjoy zooming in and out very quickly and seeing basically nothing because the place names are mahoosive and covering everything up it’s all lovely

    I’ve always wondered about the huge names on the map, do people not know where they live?

  76. liz says:

    Did we need any more proof that the UK state is as corrupt as is imaginable.

    IPSO the EC etc are peopled by folk who all went to the same schools, belong to the same clubs,have each others backs, etc.

    It’s goddam scary

  77. CameronB Brodie says:

    As we are talking about hypocrisy, I heard the PM on BBC radio today, espousing her admiration for the suffragist/suffragette movement. I swear there wasn’t a hint of irony about her, despite her opposition to Scotland’s struggle for political emancipation and agency. Then again, she is a child of the Anglican church, so I suppose she is simply articulating the utilitarian values and Anglocentric word-view of her cultural roots.

    Giving Goose
    Sorry for not replying the other day, the causes of Brexit are unfortunately bound up with economics and Britain’s waning influence as a global power. England simply hasn’t gotten over loosing it’s empire. I just wish more Scots would wake up to the fact that England’s post-colonial malaise isn’t only unsightly, it threatens the well-being of Scots who are yet to be born.

    N.B. Approximately 75% of Scots identify as Scots only.

    English and British National Identity


    National identities in the British Isles have been a neglected subject of study for a long time, though interest has been growing recently. Why the neglect, and why the new interest? This article proposes that much of the puzzle has to do with the peculiar, and dominating, position of England historically within the United Kingdom. This has led to a relative indifference to questions of national identity on the part of the English, and, by a defensive reaction, a corresponding increase, over time, with such questions on the part of the Scots, Welsh and Irish. The English developed a largely ‘non-national’ conception of themselves, preoccupied as they were with the management of the United Kingdom and the British Empire; the ‘Celtic’ nations followed a more familiar pattern of developing national consciousness, as shown elsewhere in Europe. With the loss of the British Empire, large-scale immigration, the call of Europe, and renewed nationalist movements that threaten the ‘break-up’ of Britain, it is the English who find themselves most acutely faced with questions of national identity. Hence the new interest in national identity, especially among the English but also generally throughout the United Kingdom as other groups seek to imagine alternative futures for themselves.

    British National Identity

    5. British national identity was not born of a deplorable past. It is true that British dominion was not built according to the principles of the Equal Opportunities Commission and we have to accept, too, that it was interwoven with imperialism and what we now call racism. In this it was not alone among other imperialisms – including republican and socialist imperialisms. At the same time we have to accept that British national identity survived because it was a broadly acceptable expression of the British people, to the British people, if not by the British people. Ireland was the great failure in this regard. Even so, most Irish were late in finding union with Great Britain an unacceptable representation of who they were.

    6. British national identity has not always been called that. We have to be ready to deal with different names and concepts. E.P. Thompson and G.A. Williams, for instance, demonstrated that it was through their myths of national origin that the English and Welsh working poor became class conscious. It was clear to them, for example, that being ethnically Welsh or English was incompatible with being a factory slave or a dispossessed debtor.

    7. National identity can be expressed in images and representations. But in order to be meaningful it has to fit experience and think of itself as a long-term arrangement. Although there has been much talk in recent years of ‘invented’ nations, all working nation states seek to underwrite the long-term obligations upon which all national relationships depend.

    British National Identity and the Dilemmas of Multiculturalism


    Nationalism and multiculturalism are often perceived as polar opposites with the former viewed as the disease and the latter the cure. Contrary to this view, this article argues that a strong national identity, albeit of a particular kind, is prerequisite to a stable and functioning multicultural society. The article seeks to identify both the causes and the implications of the absence of an overarching, civic national identity in Britain, further to the goal of seeking a meaningful solution. It is our contention that the problem lies in the difficulty involved in reconciling current pressures on British identity with a coherent narrative of British history, especially its imperial past.

    In 2006 May, the British Minister of Education announced plans to review whether the teaching of “core British values” should be made compulsory in the curriculum between the ages of 11 and 16. According to the BBC, this review, which lasted for six months, “asked how all children can develop a strong sense of British identity by learning about Britain’s culture and traditions.” 1

    According to Sir Keith Ajegbo, a former headmaster and Home Office adviser, the investigation found that British identity is hardly touched upon in the curriculum and that much more needs to be done to provide the “essential glue that binds people together.” This initiative highlights one of the major problems faced by British society today: the failure to produce a discourse that integrates various ethnic groups under the umbrella of a common British identity.

    According to the education minister, the review was in part a response to the terrorist attacks of 7 July 2005, and the perception that it was the failure to forge a unifying British identity that led some to give greater priority to ethnic and religious signifiers, with significant consequences. The July 7th London bombings illustrate the problems created by the absence of a civic British identity. It was frequently noted that unlike other terrorist attacks, such as those in the United States on 11 Sept. 2001, the London bombings were perpetrated by British citizens whose loyalties evidently lay with their ethnic and religious identities over and against the British state. Thus, the lack of a successfully mobilizing, inclusive civic British identity came to be seen as the cause of large-scale divisions within the United Kingdom that could increasingly serve as a source of friction and conflict.

    This article will seek to identify both the causes and the implications of this absence of an overarching, civic British national identity further to the goal of seeking a meaningful solution. It is our contention that the problem lies in the difficulty involved in reconciling current pressures on British identity with a coherent narrative of British history. We will begin by proposing a theory tracing the source of the problem, then illustrate this point by showing two contexts in which this dilemma has manifested itself: first in the way that history is taught in the British education system at present and then in recent efforts to revise citizenship law and immigration procedures.

  78. Robert Louis says:

    Regarding suffragettes and the 1918 reforms, it must be remembered that at the time of the first world war, almost all the men forcibly sent to die a gruesome needless death on the front line for ‘the empire’, did not have the vote. The mantra at that time seemed to be ‘you can die for us, but you cannot vote for us’. At the time of the suffragettes, only around half of working men had the vote.

    Not trying to detract from the clear difficulties women had, both in terms of overall legal rights in terms of household and marriage (where the man was in complete control), and the vote.

  79. Mike d says:

    Capella 1.22pm. Absolutely right. Ipsos,ofcom,BBC,EC, yougov,msm,etc, the list is endless. None of these organisations/agencies are fit for purpose. All unionist mouthpieces pretending to be impartial. In an indy2 referendum,we need international monitors at all polling stations and a tightening up of who is eligible to vote.

  80. Meg merrilees says:


    I think that is the nub of the decision.

    The judge accepted the Government stance that they have no intention of revoking Article 50 therefore it is unnecessary to spend any time and resources on investigating a scenario that will not arise..

    Whereas, Jolyon Dodgson QC, says that it is imperative that those involved in the final decision i.e. parliamentarians of all parties and Houses, should know whether there is actually a third option i.e. cancel the whole ‘flustercluck’.

  81. Snode1965 says:

    The REAL reason that *almost* Universal Suffrage was achieved is that the Russian Revolution happened the year before.
    British Cult hero Churchill, Home Secretary, fought the Suffragettes with an iron rod.
    In 1911 Churchill ordered English troops into Wales to quell striking miners.
    In 1915 he sent English troops to Glasgow to quell the Rent Strikes.
    The British Establishment had sent almost a million working class MEN to their deaths.
    Then in 1917 came the Russian Revolution. ..the British Establishment were in real TERROR of receiving the same treatment as the Russians.
    That is the sole reason that the Establishment passed the Representation of the People Act 1918, giving 5 million MEN and 8 million women the vote.

  82. Mike d says:

    No doubt in 100 yrs time under a FOI, we’ll find out how these agencies colluded with the westmidden government to try and deny Scotland its independence.

  83. Graemeo Rab says:

    Looking at the photo above you have to ask Unionists in Scotland,Why do they have to get help from people from outwith Scotland? Surely they believe Scottish Unionist Citizens have a strong enough argument to defeat us Scottish Independista citizens. No?

  84. Robert Graham says:

    Mrs Mayhem is on SKY news right now , what is she saying i havent got a clue and whats more i couldnt care less , i imagine she is announcing , not doing ,just announcing she seems to be good at that .

    I wonder what the english thought they were going to get voting for this tory party , well sorry to upset you folks , it aint happened , and by the looks of it , it isn’t going to happen , any thoughts of a competent stable government have well and truly left the building , tough shit eh ?.

  85. HandandShrimp says:


    Yes, I think in years to come, indiscretions, FOIs and document releases will ensure a number of people in the establishment will have their place in history…

    …a place that one might consider a bit agricultural implementish.

  86. Bob Mack says:

    Saint Theresa announces a major crackdown on Social media. Criminal offences to include harassment of candidates and their staff. No indication of what harassment means.
    They are indeed scared.

  87. jfngw says:


    When the USSR ceased to exist the establishment decided the fight was over and they could get the workers back where they belong. The timing of the collapse of the USSR and the massive greed explosion at the top of western society may just be a coincidence, but I suspect not.

  88. Andy-B says:

    A very disturbing line of action from the EC, it doesn’t do its credibility any good either.

    I’ve no real sympathy for Mr Clews, however, the course of action taken by the police, is undoubtedly a sign of the power and influence that SIU donors possess.

    It’s going to be very difficult to publish SIU’s donor list. Pity that, I’d like to have know exactly, who we’re up against.

  89. galamcennalath says:

    Mike d says:

    All unionist mouthpieces pretending to be impartial.

    Many of those involved will actually believe they are impartial. I’m sure they are even offended at allegations of bias.

    Such is success of imprinting the established version of UKOK into folks minds.

    However, they ARE mouthpieces and protectors of that system. Some in their ranks will fully understand this while others just subconsciously take the default and ‘normal’ standpoint.

    I believe nothing will change until after Indy. The agencies of the UK State do not have the capacity to be impartial. They will continue to act counter to our cause either maliciously or unknowingly.

  90. Snode1965 says:

    jfngw…too true.

  91. galamcennalath says:

    Graemeo Rab says:

    help from people from outwith Scotland

    I believe the entire YES movement needs to take a firm stand on this. Anyone who doesn’t live in Scotland should be told to mind their own f’ing business! It should have absolutely nothing to do with them, and they should be told.

    Like, May saying “now isn’t the right time”. The response to that should have been a firm, “no one is asking your opinion”, or whatever.

    We shouldn’t engage with, or respond to, anyone who can’t vote here.

    I think that attitude would go down well, personally.

  92. Fred says:

    Denmark aye looks enormous on these maps?

  93. Giving Goose says:

    CameronB Brodie

    Thanks for the reply, a very informative post, cheers!

  94. ronnie anderson says:

    Peter A Bell forgot about the 10lbs Hammer & Crowbar as well as the Big Red key , it wouldn’t be the 1st time the polis went on a raid only to find the door barred to them & had to send ah polisman back to the station for the Big Red key, it wiz Rid Faces all roon fur the Polis , now they avoid that & its on hand .

  95. Arbroath1320 says:

    Just in case some peeps think things are getting too serious on here here is some “light” relief. 🙂

    Could not happen to a nicer person in my view! 😀

  96. Petra says:

    Does anyone know who else broke away from SiU, along with Clews, to form UK Unity?

  97. manandboy says:

    How do we explain the extraordinary conduct of the Westminster Government under the Tory PM, Theresa May?

    May’s term of office has been completely dominated by Brexit. Right? No,wrong. Brexit has been very carefully nurtured by the Government and its Propaganda Department so as to engage the attention of the British public, and in so doing to stop them from seeing that the Government is trying only to save Britain’s wealthy elite, the Establishment.

    So, if it’s not Brexit, what is it then that explains the current madness that passes for Government in Westminster?
    The answer is the DEBT.

    At two trillion pounds of Government debt, the UK is in a very dangerous place, both economically and politically, but it is also in danger of losing social cohesion because the Government is making the UK electorate pay the debts run up by the bankers and the rest of the wealthy elite. And that is the Establishments greatest fear – a backlash from millions of ordinary people who refuse to take any more.

    Add the 2 Trillion debt to leaving the world’s biggest and most lucrative trading bloc – which hasn’t kicked off yet – continue to sell off the NHS while lining the pockets of the 1%, and what have you got?

    The UK is heading for a big breakdown.

  98. Liz g says:

    galamcennalath @ 2.51
    While I agree that there are many,many commentators on our vote who should be asked “what is it to do with you”?….

    Erm … in this instance May was asked to hold talk’s aboot another Section 30 order that would potentially save a bit of time,money and effort after our Yes vote!
    That’s when she said “now is not the time”!

    Which is fair enough…. She was asked….it’s only polite…
    Changes nothing pre vote,cause the time fur a mandate had passed and we got it….and she knows it….ho hum!

    But in general we will be having a conversation aboot keeping our MPs at Westminster and staying with the term’s of the old 1707 Treaty…. or not….and yer right….it’s nothing to do with anybody else!

    Its the business of the Scottish voters,and they should be the ones to have a thing to say aboot it.
    Anyone else is just background noise and we should be very clear aboot that.

    If the no voters have a case for keepin the the Treaty let them tell it…..sell it to us if ye like but they shouldn’t allow their message to get drowned out by other’s who don’t have a vote!

  99. Giving Goose says:

    The UK is heading for a big breakdown.

    I certainly hope so!

  100. McDuff says:

    Whether it be the EC,BBC OR IPSO the reality is we are dealing with the British state and all its nasty tentacles.

  101. r.esquierdo says:

    I would not trust a member of the EC to whurl me doon the street in a Tesco trolley. Me being a yes man and them being a naw person they wid coup me oot.

  102. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Even *if* BBC Scotland gave this story the attention it surely deserves, how would the average viewer make sense of it?

    How many Reporting Scotland/GMS/Drivetime consumers could confidently state what SIU stands for?

  103. K1 says:

    Interesting developments regarding Katie Hopkins LA. I had just been reading a rather detailed article about ‘racial tension’s being raised in South Africa brought by a UK PR company called Bell Pontinger, who’s reputation and standing have been ruined and they. have been bankrupted by this affair. After they were hired by the Gupta Brothers in SA. This was the essence of what took place:

    ‘By the following year, Bell Pottinger was embroiled in a national maelstrom. In TV reports, editorials and public rallies, it stood accused of setting off racial tensions through a furtive campaign built on Twitter bots, hate-filled websites and speeches. All were pushing a highly toxic narrative, namely that whites in South Africa had seized resources and wealth while they deprived blacks of education and jobs. The message was popularized with an incendiary phrase, “white monopoly capital.”

    What’s interesting re Hopkins is that she has ‘jumped’ in to SA on the back of this phoney campaign that was triggered by Gupta brothers aided by Bell Pottinger and others? I would go as far as stating that KH has been duped into believing that there was this ‘real’ backlash on the white population, but only because of a planted false narrative set off before her arrival on the scene?

    Here’s a little more detail about their part in it. Article not archived (as I’m happy to have clicks for NYT journalism of this quality) for anyone interested in seeing some backstory that our media, as far as I’m aware haven’t covered at all?

    ‘Though the only corporate fatality, Bell Pottinger is just one of the companies tainted by the Guptas. A small coterie of multinationals is now under investigation by South African authorities, including local units of three companies, McKinsey, KPMG and the software giant SAP.

    The Guptas’ most devastating legacy is the harm they did to the cause of economic reform. With so many blacks in South Africa mired in poverty, the topic is urgent, but discussion about it has been debased by its association with a notorious and self-serving P.R. campaign.

    In the midst of that campaign, racial tensions rose to levels that had not been felt since apartheid. “White monopoly capital,” a phrase that for years had been confined to left-wing academic circles, was suddenly unavoidable. A political group with reported links to the Guptas warned of a coming civil war.

    When Bell Pottinger’s role became public, protesters rallied against the company, both in South Africa and outside the firm’s London office. A subsequent investigation by the Public Relations and Communications Association, a trade group in Britain, ended with the ejection of Bell Pottinger.’

  104. galamcennalath says:

    Liz g says:

    May was asked to hold talk’s aboot another Section 30

    True. That was a bad example. There will be lots of clearer examples but I was just too lazy to go looking 🙂

    A quick google shows Michael Fallon saying last Feb that they could block another referendum. Or Boris Johnson saying Mar 2016 that he rejected the idea of another independence referendum if the UK leaves the EU against the will of Scots.

    None of their business, IMO. And saying so should be a definite policy.

  105. Sinky says:

    Too much to expect BBC to mention that Robert KIlgour who is bumping his gums about care homes is a significant Tory donor and set up a Scottish business campaign group to oppose a future independence referendum, warning that supporters of union with the UK have become too complacent about the threat of secession.

    The Scottish Business UK group founded by care home entrepreneur Robert Kilgour will announce this month the creation of an advisory board that includes a leading publisher and a former chairman of employers’ lobby CBI Scotland. 

    Losses suffered by the Scottish National party in June’s UK general election has been widely seen as killing SNP hopes for an early second referendum on leaving the UK. 

    But Mr Kilgour, who has already spent more than £30,000 to establish the SBUK group, said the independence push might quickly regain momentum. 

    “I still feel it is very much a real and present danger,” said Mr Kilgour, who believes that relatively late and limited interventions by pro-union corporate figures was a factor in the narrower than expected victory over independence in the 2014 referendum. 

    Also Think Scotland, a conservative-minded website is funded by Scottish unionist businessman Robert Kilgour.

    Think Scotland is owned by former Tory MSP Brian Monteith.

  106. Clootie says:

    Many puppets…ONE puppet master.

  107. Arbroath1320 says:

    All I can say K1 is that she is in the best place for US.

    Hope the South African government charge her and throw away the key afterwards. She is one evil hate filled xenophobic bitch from hell!

  108. Geoff Huijer says:

    Using a battering ram on the guy’s door was WAY over the top.

    The Electoral Commission’s response to the donations being ‘meh’ is equally ludicrous.

    From one extreme to another as it were (and you can read that any way you like).

  109. donnywho says:

    I think that Robert Kilgour became a tax exile after selling the Four Seasons group. Monaco i think, a very typical proud unionist tax avoided. Nothing spells unionism like avoiding tax!

  110. wull2 says:

    I think what happened in the last GE, woke a few YES people up.
    That wont happen again.
    Vote SNP/SNP or YES, what ever comes first.

  111. Dr Jim says:

    Whatever happened to the Scotland I grew up in where to a man and woman such phrases as “It’s they Bastirts doon in London”
    were commonplace, nobody ever defended decisions made by any London government, nobody ever said they liked London government, nobody ever said “Let’s not strike” to curry any favour from a London government

    Even my own mother born and bred in Wolverhampton until marriage to my Edinburgh father then came to Scotland to have and bring up her children because education in England was narrow and very poor had the same opinion, until something happened

    The Scottish parliament,
    but instead of our new parliament empowering the people of Scotland to move on from the tyranny imposed upon them from the English parliament they detested and had always made quite clear they despised, they begun to take sides against the very thing they had voted for which was a form of self determination by selecting their own politicians to represent them by opposing the thing they said they disliked

    Now I’m only ordinary me and not some kind of Psychic but it seems to me that by taking part in any dealings with the London parliament it must have looked to many folk like why are we going to the expense of a Scottish parliament that we wanted to make things better for Scotland only to fill it up with representatives of the very thing we didn’t want , politicians who represent the people in the London parliament we used to call “They Bastirts doon there”

    The SNP came to power and without doubt were and are the best thing that’s ever happened to Scotland ever, and yet the folk who originally complained about London rule now seem to want it back more than ever even though a deaf and dumb blind man wae a faulty dug can see that the London rule idea is positively mentally irregular and Scotland is doing way better in almost every respect and backed up by the rest of our own money and the support of other countries keen to join with us we’d be as sound as a big Scottish pound

    We’ve always had the Orange nut cases but I remember when they hated London too, they might have espoused their love and undying loyalty to HM the Queen but they still despised London rule and that’s the thing that puzzles me, because nobody ever said they wouldn’t be allowed to be loyal to their Queen anymore if Scotland became Independent and they can’t complain that the SNP are all Catholic because we clearly aren’t, the SNP are the most diverse in ethnicity, religion and gender of all the political parties

    So whatever happened to the people of the Scotland I grew up in

  112. Proud Cybernat says:


    Brexit: Northern Irish will be able to remain EU citizens under deal

    Two sides agreed the passport deal would continue after Brexit

    If it’s okay for NI then it’s okay for Scotland. Anything less will be an outrage.

  113. Petra says:

    ‘READ: Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit letter to Theresa May in full.’

    ”Dear Theresa

    In light of the expected meeting this week of the UK Government Cabinet Sub-Committee on EU Exit Negotiations, I am writing to underscore the position of the Scottish Government that, short of EU membership, it is in the best interests of both Scotland and the whole of the UK to remain in the European Single Market and Customs Union.

    Last month the Scottish Government produced “Scotland’s Place in Europe: People, Jobs and Investment” which presented our latest analysis of the damage that will be caused to Scotland’s economy if the UK exits the European Single Market and Customs Union. We understand from media reporting, that the conclusions reached in the UK Government’s analysis broadly reflect the Scottish Government’s findings.

    I was therefore concerned to read further reports this week that the UK Government has apparently ruled out any form of Customs Union with the EU. The people of Scotland voted decisively to remain within the European Union, and it is the role of the Scottish Government to make sure that their interests are protected. It cannot be right that decisions on the future relationship with the EU are being taken without due regard for consultation across the four Governments of the UK in direct contradiction to the terms of reference of the Joint Ministerial Committee (EU Negotiations). Those terms of reference were to ensure a space for reaching agreement on a UK approach to, and objectives for, Article 50 negotiations; and provide oversight of negotiations with the EU, to ensure, as far as possible, that outcomes agreed by all four governments are secured from these negotiations.

    To date the discussions in JMC (EN) have fallen far short of that ambition and of your own commitment when we met in July 2016 to ‘full involvement’. I expect that following the meeting of your Cabinet Sub-Committee there will remain full scope for the Scottish Government, and other devolved administrations, to influence the shape of the UK approach and objectives for negotiations.

    In light of the timetable ahead of the European Council on 22 March 2018, there must be urgent and meaningful discussion between us to try to agree a UK position and therefore enable our European partners to respond.”


  114. galamcennalath says:

    Petra says:

    ‘READ: Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit letter to Theresa May

    Clearly and powerfully states the SG position. However, it is part of a recurring cycle where the SG simply gets ignored.

    Such items put the Scottish position on record, but I hae my doots it will have any effect!

    At some point Nicola is going to have give up on talking to the Tories and move things on to the inevitable.

  115. heedtracker says:

    Petra says:
    6 February, 2018 at 5:22 pm
    ‘READ: Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit letter to Theresa May in full.’

    ”Dear Theresa

    Biggest issue though, Teresa’s got no idea what to do and we know this because,

    Imagine a non tory UK gov or SNP Scots gov this catastrophically bad and how the BBC led tory media would shred them alive ?

  116. K1 says:

    Max Quaye from retweet on Rev’s twitter:

    Want to understand what happens to ‘geographical trademarks’ like Scottish Whisky when we leave the EU customs and single market?

    Read it and spread it far and wide, a simple thread that encapsulates ‘how’ Breixt really works, now…multiply that ‘harm’ by all other distinctly Scottish exports and we get?


  117. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    K1, you completely forgot to mention how Jacob Zuma openly called for blacks to confiscate white land without compensation, presumably having more of an effect than an advertising campaign.

    But, in all sincerity, it’s good that the focus is on the disgusting goodness gracious Guptas.

  118. Meg merrilees says:


    So this Carillon stuff being investigated today at WM –

    I heard them say on the news that Sir Philip Green accepts the bulk of the blame for the situation – is that the same Philip Green who brought BHS to its knees???

    How could he be allowed to repeat the situation with an even bigger company? He’s dismayed. apparently, word’s cannot explain how he feels about things

    How many pensions funds have vanished while he has held the reins – and where else does he have “control” ?

    Can’t believe he’s still allowed to be a C.E.O.

  119. Auld Rock says:


  120. Bill McLean says:

    Reluctant Nationalist at 0605pm – and you forgot to mention that the land had been stolen from the “blacks” in the first place. And the only compensation most of them got was a bayonet in the belly – and not just in Africa.

  121. CmonIndy says:

    It would be a real shame if Lauri Love, or a n other, managed to hack the details of the SIU donors.

  122. yesindyref2 says:

    Re the use by Police Scotland – SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) of a “battering ram” – enforcer there’s this:

    Section 20.6.3 – Equipment – Public Order Rapid Entry Team:

    “Method of Entry (M.O.E.) equipment – Enforcer and Hooligan tools ”

    That would need to be read in context, and to get full context go to previous paragraphs, but clearly since “Format c:” would remove evidence quite quickly, Rapid Entry would be appropriate and even use of the enforcer, where seizure of computer equpipment intact with data was required.

    “Hello David Clews, can we make an appointment please for tomorrow to seize your computer equipment” would seem to be a bad idea.

  123. galamcennalath says:

    K1 says:

    what happens to ‘geographical trademarks’ like Scottish Whisky when we leave the EU

    Do Brexiteers care? Of course not. The elites among them probably hold Diageo shares and stand to win!

    They want the UK flooded with cheap imports which will lower prices and stimulate the economy. Domestic producers will simply go out of business. Steel and food have no hope. They further believe low wages, low regulation, low pound will help some other sectors. Export.

    Only lunatics could come up with it!

    BTW, I remember Port, Sherry, and Champagne in the shops which didn’t come from Portugal, Spain, or France. Fine to get pissed on, but definitely not the real thing.

  124. K1 says:

    I didn’t ‘forget’ to mention anything. I merely suggested that KH is a dupe in this game and is late to it. The fake campaign, Zuma, Guptas hand in glove and the PR Bellinger Rots et all have all played a hand in ‘raising racial tensions’.

    As Bill McLean reminds us, this is an old old story. They merely exploit that history for gain and power.

    Read the article, it wasn’t ‘just’ an ‘advertisng campaign’.

  125. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Reluctant Nationalist at 6.05

    “White land”? In Africa? No such thing.

  126. Tackety Beets says:

    Ref Philip Green

    Carrilion & BHS are actually 2 very dif people , by coincidence the same name.

    So instead of one $hi£ , we have two useless $hits !

  127. yesindyref2 says:

    For the Rev’s case, and David Clews, computer equipment should be returned quickly as that can be a real burden on someone who is only a suspect.

    For that however, it’s handling and production of evidence, and it would seem a sensible idea if the law was changed, so that police could clone the hard drives, memory sticks etc. with some sort of certification for the evidence trail, and if neccessary perform some sort of clean-up of sensitive data before return to the “suspect”. Not easy, but it could be done, with the use of “expert witnesses”.

  128. Fireproofjim says:

    Meg Merrilees
    No, he is not that Phillip Green.

  129. K1 says:

    Quite so gala, quite so.

  130. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    My wife is so looking forward to River City tonight.

    What? It’s English football – again…..

    The EBC is quite deliberately undermining Scottish football.

  131. Graeme says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    6 February, 2018 at 6:12 pm

    Re the use by Police Scotland – SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) of a “battering ram” – enforcer there’s this:

    Section 20.6.3 – Equipment – Public Order Rapid Entry Team:

    “Method of Entry (M.O.E.) equipment – Enforcer and Hooligan tools ”

    That would need to be read in context, and to get full context go to previous paragraphs, but clearly since “Format c:” would remove evidence quite quickly, Rapid Entry would be appropriate and even use of the enforcer, where seizure of computer equpipment intact with data was required.


    Format c: wouldn’t remove any data, any data on that drive would still be recoverable even after a format.

  132. heedtracker says:

    The EBC is quite deliberately undermining Scottish football.

    We prefer the term, English cultural bullying. They’re old hands at it too.

    But this is exactly what 55% Scots voted for.

    Its maybe a kind of S&M thank you sir, can I have another kind of Scottish self loathing.

  133. colin alexander says:

    As I’ve said before, the Electoral Commission clearly are not independent,impartial and fair.

    If there is an another indyref, the Scot Govt should look to the international convention on referendums for guidance and tell the Electoral Commission to go chase themselves, if they want to get involved in helping to rig it for the UK state.

    Likewise chase the UK Govt with their pretendy legal agreement, the Edinburgh Agreement.

  134. heedtracker says:

    Format c: wouldn’t remove any data, any data on that drive would still be recoverable even after a format.

    Just belting a drive with a hammer’s probably quite effective too, if you’re rushing, especially solid state drives.

  135. Sinky says:

    Did I miss BBC Reporting Scotland’acknowledgement of Ian Blackford / SNP campaign to save the 10 RBS branches

  136. Dan Huil says:

    “There is growing apprehension in Dublin that the guarantees given by the British government will be difficult to put into concrete legal form”

    Irish Times

    I have a feeling the whole world thinks the same as Dublin.

  137. colin alexander says:

    “A judge has rejected a bid from a cross-party group of Scottish politicians to review whether the UK can withdraw Article 50 on its own.”

    Another £50,000 wasted on arguing the toss about rubbish. Just like arguing the toss about Sewel.

    It’s a pity they shy away from Acts of Union 1707,The Claim of Right 1689 and sovereignty of the people of Scotland, combined with the UN recognised right to self-determination via democracy to challenge whether the Parliamentary Sovereignty ideology from the 18th century
    or earlier can be legally challenged or whether this Parliamentary Sovereignty ideology can be defended in law.

    Or is it just all made up political ideology that is used to justify ignoring Scotland’s democratic will eg we voted Remain, robbing Scotland of the Devo-max powers, and other devolved powers that should come from the the EU, and to justify treating Scotland like third-class passengers in SS Great Britain?

    (Or should that be RMS Titanic?)

  138. ailsa craig says:

    Good old Jackie Bird. Not a mention of the SNP/Ian Blackford/ScotGov in the work to save the RBS branches. Unite, the Community politicians, – of course, they did all the work. Great achievement. Cons John Lamont girning that it was only 10 branches safe for the moment.

    The BBC would make you sick; at least STV gave credit where it is due.

  139. Meg merrilees says:

    Fireproof Jim

    Phew! that’s a relief but some coincidence to have two ‘Philip Green’ s or should that plural be two ‘Philip’s Green’.. Hmm.

  140. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, you’d need a wiping tool, and even then it’s not entirely safe. A hammer and goggles might do the job all the same.

  141. louis.b.argyll says:

    Another £50,000 wasted on arguing the toss about rubbish. Just like arguing the toss about Sewel.

    Huh? Captain Hindsight there.

    The law must be tested ya fanny. It’s our right to try.

  142. louis.b.argyll says:

    We’ve had two official World Wars, the third one strung out and still ongoing, a holocaust, apartheid, Palestinian oppression, war on terror etc etc.

    One thing that lingers longer in the human psyche, has caused equal, if not more misery than all the above, is the
    Bloody British Empire.

    We fucked up entire continents.

  143. Bob Mack says:

    Just as an aside. Of the total land mass of South Africa, almost 79% of land suitable for farming or cultivation of any type ,is owned by white families..

  144. Hamish100 says:

    Arbroath1320 says:
    6 February, 2018 at 10:51 am
    So just for clarification THESE are the members of the Electoral Commission who make these “incredible” decisions.

    I am absolutely furious. There are commissioners there who have’nt had a CBE, Knight/Dame Hood or even a Lordship yet. Please correct this anomaly immediately.

    Slightly off tack the Sunday Mail had an exclusive at the week-end. The Queen has banned straws!!!! How the mighty have fallen in order to grab express and Mail on Sunday readers. What drivel.

  145. galamcennalath says:

    Five fundamental Brexit questions …

    Are the Tories and voters willing to accept annual payments to the EU, forever, for market access?

    Would the Tories compromise their Brexit wishes and go soft to ensure the Union/UK continues?

    What kind of Brexit will it take to appease the hard right sufficiently to stop them campaigning?

    Will Labour ever actually become relevant in the Brexit debate?

    Will the EU declare the UK has reneged on the supposedly already agreed deal on the Irish border?

    …. none of which will feature in MSM analysis!

  146. heedtracker says:

    Bob Mack says:
    6 February, 2018 at 7:40 pm
    Just as an aside. Of the total land mass of South Africa, almost 79% of land suitable for farming or cultivation of any type ,is owned by white families..

    So just like Scotland then. But they do permit us to creep around the edges of their Scotland, which is something.

    Dan Snow is a neo fascist with a serious war fetish. When you hear Brits explain that the UK won WW2, thank a super rich cash crazed daddy’s boy like Dan.

  147. Lenny Hartley says:

    Re computer hard drive format, there are two types low and high level, a low level format makes it almost impossible to retrieve any data, so for example you are selling a computer that is the best option, assuming you have a copy of the operating system to reinstall it.
    A high level format , the type you do when you type ‘format c:’ only changes the file allocation table and most if not all of the data can be retrieved, but the only 100% format is a big hammer.
    I can also confirm its a great way of relieving stress 🙂

  148. harry mcaye says:

    OK, was it just me or was BBC Scotland’s new weather map still slanted, hiding the country’s true size? Perhaps done to fully include Shetland but they wouldn’t need to do it if they cut off large swathes of Cumbria and Northumberland at the other end.

  149. louis.b.argyll says:

    No surprise there Bob 7.40pm

    White Anglo-Saxon Protestants pretty much set up all our modern flashpoints.

  150. louis.b.argyll says:

    Dan Snow’s dad, the respected and animated journalist, has publicly distanced himself from his son’s politics.

    He sees right through the money.

  151. yesindyref2 says:

    Just wandering around, and here’s a hard-line unionist from 2014, mentioned on these pages, with this to say in October 2017:

    None of this gives me any pleasure, but it would be a lie to say I can’t feel my internal chemistry beginning to change. I won’t be the only one. The Britain I argued for in 2014 is ceasing to exist, has made a monkey of me, is regenerating into an unattractively spivvy character – and it doesn’t seem to care, really.

    Doesn’t archive so here’s the link.

  152. yesindyref2 says:

    I look around quite a lot and just read what people write, and the way they put things, and I’ll tell you this, there are lot questioning their previous firm beliefs, the way the UK Gov and the UK state are carrying on. Ultimately I’d say over 95% of the people of Scotland COULD vote YES next time, and everything that’s going on is stacking up to make that happen. It’s one of the reasons I’m starting not to post so much in previously unionist media, and when I do, I’m careful.

    Gently does it.

  153. r esquierdo says:

    The uneducated are the ones to fear. They are easily manipulated . Stoned out their brains with drink or drugs. Is it a British policy to have 20% of the the population incapable of making an educated decision. There lies the problem. Ken whit the problem is growing.

  154. Rock says:

    “It would be hard to argue with a cynical reader who suggested that the EC appeared to operate two very different sets of rules depending on who it was investigating.”

    Rock (15th August 2014 – “When is a pot not a pot?”):

    “The Electoral Commission is itself peddling lies on behalf of Better Together who don’t have the manpower to deliver them themselves.

    The system is rotten to the core.”

  155. Rock says:

    “we find ourselves rather uncomfortable with the deployment of such an excessive display of intimidatory police force in the defence of the interests of the wealthy establishment.”

    “So having been subjected to a ridiculous arrest (and completely spurious, months-long confiscation of electronic equipment) ourselves last year for doing our job, we didn’t view the raid with quite as much schadenfreude as readers might expect.”

    Rock (13th June 2014 – “To the editor of the Scotsman”):

    “Remember that you are now the 2nd biggest threat to the Establishment and they will do everything in their power to get you.

    My advice to you would be to move to Iceland – NOW – and carry on your work from there.”

  156. r esquierdo says:

    Rock says You are 100% correct Rotten to the core You only have to look into the people who control the EC . All tories. What worries me is the fact that the SNP government put their trust in the EC during the referendum this was despite numerous people airing concerns. My concern is still deeply rooted

  157. the wasp says:

    Harry Mcaye @ 8.11

    You are not alone, I noticed it too, in fact I rewound the weather piece to make sure I hadn’t imagined it after the ebc big news gave us in our full glory/size.

  158. Rock says:


    “We can safely add the Electoral Commission to the list of “watchdogs” which neither bark not bite.”

    Some do it with foresight, some with hindsight.

    Rock (11th August 2014 “And smile, smile, smile”):

    “That is the Electoral Commission further exposed as the unionist rogue it is, like the CBI and BBC.”

  159. Dr Jim says:

    I believe the UK GUV do know what they’re doing on Brexit
    They’re playing bluff poker with the EU and using us as their cards and crossing their fingers hoping the EU will fold

    If the EU do fold the UK will claim glorious victory over Johnny foreigner, if the EU don’t throw in their cards the UK will claim aggrieved status using the Daily Mail to blame all nasty foreigners as the correct reason for leaving the EU because they’re all bad and undemocratic for not giving in to the glorious English Empire who saved them all from the nasty war

    And of course all the saboteurs and ("Tractor" - Ed)ous backbenchers will be condemned right along with them, but the worst condemnation will be saved for Nicola Sturgeons secret interventions with the EU to undermine Englands glory

    Off with her head and NO to any referendums now and forever Scotland shall not be free

    This is just a guess mind!

  160. Rock says:

    r esquierdo,

    “What worries me is the fact that the SNP government put their trust in the EC during the referendum this was despite numerous people airing concerns. My concern is still deeply rooted”

    There will be no independence as long as the SNP plays by Westminster rules.

    Will Nicola, a lawyer, ever have the guts to hold a referendum without Saint Theresa’s approval?

    I very much doubt it.

    Why would she want to go into exile in Belgium when she is fine here, flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen?

  161. stewartb says:

    louis.b.argyll @ at 8:23 pm

    You write: “Dan Snow’s dad, the respected and animated journalist, has publicly distanced himself from his son’s politics.”

    Interesting, ‘useful’ potentially if true – but why, oh why do you give NO SOURCE?

    And if I have missed it elsewhere in the thread – despite a word search – I apologise.

  162. Hamish100 says:

    rock –you do sound like CA. quack quack. When does your shift end?

  163. heedtracker says:

    My advice to you would be to move to Iceland – NOW – and carry on your work from there.

    Iceland shuts at 6 Rock, although the one on Victoria next to tesco’s open til 10!

  164. louis.b.argyll says:

    I saw it myself on TV, can’t remember the context. During Brexit coup debate, tried to tar his old-man with his own right wing views. His dad was none pleased and made that very clear.

  165. K1 says:

    It the sitcom is Dad’s army we know who Craig is:

  166. Rock says:


    “Iceland shuts at 6 Rock, although the one on Victoria next to tesco’s open til 10!”

    Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, you are living proof that not all people in Scotland are stupid.

  167. heedtracker says:

    Thanks Rock! High praise indeed.

    The National was great today, front page wise at least, if you know who SiU is. That’s maybe a weak spot in their header, who the feck are SiU?

    The National left out how JK Trolling is also a SiU ligger too, which would probably have caught the interest more.

    A signed copy of a JK Rowling novel must have gone for SiU mega bucks but it pales into nothing compared to,

    which really gave all the tory britnats o The Graun a funny feeling in their unionjack bathing suit areas.

    I think of you Rock everytime I buy the National too.

  168. Dan Snow is convener of political movement `More United`,

    which helps fund certain Members of Parliament who subscribe to their ideology of a United Britain through a `market based economy`,

    some of their funded MP`s,

    Alistair Carmichael Orkney and Shetland,
    Ian Murray Edinburgh South,
    Jo Swinson East Dunbartonshire,
    Christine Jardine Edinburgh West,
    Jamie Stone Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross,
    Stephen Kinnock Aberavon,
    John Woodcock Barrow and Furness,
    Chuka Umunna Streatham,
    Owen Smith Pontypridd.

    he bleats on and on about the glories of his Great blood soaked Brutish Empire and yet has Canadian citizenship having a Canadian mother.

  169. Dan Huil says:

    Rabid Britnat brexiteers angry at foreigners daring to look after EU’s interests. Why can’t these foreigners realize britnats are superior to everyone else?!

  170. artyhetty says:


    Good guess and very possibly the actuality of it all.

    Some great comments here today, re Heedtracker and all. Keep up the good work! 🙂 🙂

  171. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Heedtracker: “Iceland shuts at 6 Rock.”

    Haha. I went looking for when you posted that the last time Rock mentioned Iceland so I could quote it, but couldn’t find it.

  172. heedtracker says:

    . Why can’t these foreigners realize britnats are superior to everyone else?!

    They just are and you do not want to upset them, as JK Trolling explained in her £1,000,000 donation to a big fat liar, currently loathing round south side Glasgow.

    No idea who the “we” is either, Trolling’s from Bristol, which at least gives her special insight into great britnat bitterness.

    “If we leave, there will be no going back. This separation will not be quick and clean: it will take microsurgery to disentangle three centuries of close interdependence, after which we will have to deal with three bitter neighbours.”

  173. galamcennalath says:

    Scot Finlayson says:

    Dan Snow …. ideology of a United Britain

    This definitely touches a raw nerve with me.

    He has one Hell of a cheek. Non Scots campaigning to keep Scotland in a ‘United Britain’ is utterly abhorrent! It wreaks of imperialism and predatory nationalism.

    Why? Because their ‘United Britain’ is not a partnership of equals. A Scotland in their Union can be out voted at every occasion and by governments we totally reject. Policies we don’t want can be forced upon us.

    People who live in Scotland campaigning to remain in a Union is their right. People elsewhere should have no rights or say in Scotland’s future. It is for Scots to decide.

  174. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 20:25,

    Thenks for the interesting link. The quote from the reluctant re-thinker Deerin I particularly liked was this one:

    I’ve lost count of the number of Brexiteers who have said to me that, given a straight choice, they’d rather lose Scotland than give up Brexit.

    Suits me. Bring it on!

    Seems we need to make this position far better known among the PSBs. That they are being kept on by sufferance really (just don’t mention their plentiful assets).

    We should also do more somehow to offend the aforementioned southern Brexiteers. Really put them to the test.

  175. heedtracker says:

    Haha. I went looking for when you posted that the last time Rock mentioned Iceland so I could quote it, but couldn’t find it.

    Have I?! oh god, early onset time again:D

    In the run up to 18 Sept 2014, the owner of Iceland was a routine, “Salmond’s a deluded chancer” guest on C4 teatime news, with Krishnan Guru-Murthy usually, the pair of them pissing hard on Scotland, becoming not a greater England region.

    Thought that was one of C4 news tory’s sneakier vote NO propaganda shots really, with mega rich self made English dude, who makes his money off of the worst off, with clever little phoney pricing tricks and own brand Iceland brand food. A weighted vote NO you silly Scottish types, you need England far more than we need you and there’s 2p off a four pack of Heinz beenz.

    How to overcome English propaganda indyref2 is certainly going to be fun. Hope Big Fat Blair comes out of retirement for Project Fear 2 and will JK Trolling cough up another million quid?

  176. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 22:48,

    Your point about this being no union of equals is bang to rights.

    I would have had a lot more time for the Dan Snows if post-2014 they had seriously strived to re-jig this motile constitution we are supposed to enjoy, and make it more fit for purpose in the light of what had just transpired. The Sunday after IR1 there was a high-falutin’ editorial in the Observer about how “the union would never be the same”. Aye, richt.

    Instead the unionists did diddly-squat. Rowed back on even the little that they had promised. Did their level best to ignore and decry us.

    Not content with that shameful betrayal, they then proceeded to launch a process of reckless self-harm which has only served to demonstrate that the UK has become an international laughing-stock with absurd neo-imperial pretensions.

    The UK is a bust. High time to go our own way, and to hell with any promises (or threats) from the hapless crew of Dan Snow’s ship of fools.

  177. heedtracker says:

    The UK is a bust. High time to go our own way, and to hell with any promises (or threats) from the hapless crew of Dan Snow’s ship of fools.

    Yes but the last thing our British elite wants or will permit is an actual democracy in their Scotland region.

    Imagine how much these guys fear actual democracy, accountable elected democracy?

    They probably realise they’re fighting rearguard actions from now on, all over the place but they probably aim to never see Scotland becoming an actual democracy in their lifetimes.

    Its a lot of pressure to place on the BBC Scotland gimp network, if only because, everyone knows what they’re in Scotland to do.

  178. Tinto Chiel says:

    Jon Snow is Dan Snow’s first cousin, according to the latter’s Wiki page.

    I’m afraid I no longer respect him, given his antagonistic performances towards SNP spokespersons. He’s just as bad as the rest of the Channel 4 news crew, in my opinion.

  179. Dan Huil says:

    Theresa May has announced a review of the future of the British newspaper industry, warning that the closure of hundreds of titles, particularly local papers, was a danger to democracy. The review will look at sustainable business models for quality journalism at a local, regional and national level.

    From Irish Times:

    “Speaking in Manchester, Ms May said that, when trusted news sources decline, society can become vulnerable to unreliable or untrustworthy news.

    “Good-quality journalism provides us with the information and analysis we need to inform our viewpoints and conduct a genuine discussion. It is a huge force for good. But in recent years – especially in local journalism – we’ve seen falling circulations, a hollowing-out of local newsrooms, and fears for the future sustainability of high-quality journalism,” she said.”

    You couldn’t make it up

  180. heedtracker says:

    “Speaking in Manchester, Ms May said that, when trusted news sources decline, society can become vulnerable to unreliable or untrustworthy news.

    Its only our imperial masters ever so posh British mimicking Orange Hitler’s fake news monstering of any US media thats even remotely critical.

    UK media’s doing a good job holding the pussy grabbing fascist Pres’s end up here in their UK and as ever, its the beeb gimp network that’s really got Orange Hitler’s back.

  181. Jim the Jacobite says:

    I think the UK will drag out Brexit negotiations then go for no deal forcing SNP to ref. without s30 thus rendering it illegal then returning devolved powers from EU back to the beefed up scottis h office with Mundell in charge and probably reducing greatly the power of Hollyrood

  182. stewartb says:

    To Sinky and others who have made mention of someone called ‘Robert Kilgour’ in this thread, if you wish to get an insight into the complex, multi-layered nature of corporate control in private care home sector use this name in the search facility of Companies House at and dive into the related company filing documents available on line at this same source.

    I make no claims – from a brief look – other than one of seeming complexity.

    There is a Robert Dow Kilgour – could be a different person (?) – as a director of the following companies:

    SC440634 – Incorporated on 18 January 2013
    Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB

    SC402102 – Incorporated on 21 June 2011
    Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB

    SC402097 – Incorporated on 21 June 2011
    Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB

    SC402101 – Incorporated on 21 June 2011
    Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB

    SC402100 – Incorporated on 21 June 2011
    Suite 2, Ground Floor, Stuart House Eskmills Park, Station Road, Musselburgh, Midlothian, EH21 7PB.

    It seems that some entity called ‘Renaissance Care’ according to the BBC that runs the care home in Musselburgh that is, regrettably, to close. Hopefully a good solution can be found, and soon, for its residents.

    Dipping into Renaissance Care ( N0 4) as an example, we learn from its 2015 filing that it is controlled by Renaissance Care (UK) Limited which is ultimately controlled by Dow Investments plc as a result of Dow’s controlling interest in Renaissance Care (Scotland) Limited because it in turn has a controlling stake in Renaissance Care (UK) Limited. Is that clear – is that complex? Dow Investments plc is controlled by a ‘Mr R D Kilgour’. Could this be the same Mr Kilgour who Sinky refers to @4.26pm?

  183. Still Positive says:

    Earlier this evening I watched on FB Lesley Riddoch give a talk to Yes East Renfrewshire: she was wonderful, she totally ‘gets it’. She talked about the Nordic countries, including the Faroes who really do have the most devolved parliament in the world because they can negotiate international treaties, which we can’t. And she said how small countries can have a great effect on world issues by using what is important to them to their advantage.

    2 things from that: buy her book McSmorgasbord (sorry if that is misspelt).

    She would be great to head up the next Yes campaign.

  184. Kangaroo says:

    Looks like the EU are getting the message that the UK is not negotiating in good faith.

  185. K1 says:

    Is this the talk you watched SP?

    If not this is a really good talk with q&a from Lesley Riddoch, Yes Eastwood Inaugural event

    It’s very good.

  186. yesindyref2 says:

    Read the first two comments on this article

    and realise why all this bloody feminist anti-sexist stuff is still needed, and will be until that generation of slimeballs dies off or gets sectioned.

  187. Petra says:

    @ yesindyref2 …. “Posts in the National.”

    Hellish or what? One wonders who these people really are and where they actually come from? It also stands to reason that the National will be a target for British nationalists, as is this site. Maybe it’s high time some of us (or more of us if you do so already) thought about posting on there.

  188. Dr Jim says:

    There’s too many people being nasty on Twitter about us nice Tories and even all of us Union Politicians says Theresa May

    Yet it’s funny how it’s the Unionist parties who actually hire and pay people to Tweet on bloody Twitter, who can forget Kezias very public appeal *Tweet for Labour and get paid*

    To the best of my knowledge the SNP don’t pay anybody to do that, they have monitors but not folk who troll the web finding people to annoy

    Now things have got so tough for Mother Theresa that she’s going to subsidise failing newspapers (guess which ones) with our money and the BBC is going to hire and supply these same newspapers with “journalists” paid for out of our taxes

    This is like Scotland getting another Trident we don’t want except with a mouth we’re forced to listen to, do they not have enough propaganda as it is

  189. yesindyref2 says:

    I was the third comment 🙂

  190. yesindyref2 says:

    James Dornan will be a good candidate for depute leader of the SNP, as would Ivan McKee if he stands, but here’s one that would set the MSM in a total tizzy, how about Alex Salmond? It’d be wall to wall headlines for months 🙂

  191. yesindyref2 says:

    On a prospectus of course, of full speed ahead for Independence and don’t spare the horses: “I’m giving her all she’s got, Captain! She cannae take anymore.”

  192. Mick Clark says:

    Petra, I’ve said this before, I love reading the posts on here and the wealth of information all you guys have, and long may it continue. But we are mostly preaching to the converted. I’d love to see more of you posting in the papers, countering the unionist trolls. Many undecided readers are still be influenced by the lies. No subscription required, one minute to register and you’re in. Herald, Scotsman and National all have the green ink plants posting daily. Believe me, you guys would wipe the floor with them.

  193. Robert Louis says:

    So the brexiteer nutters and fruitcakes in London are now in a spin, because it seems the EU is planning to impose strict regulations IF the UK does not adhere to the terms of its withdrawal agreement from the EU.

    Well done, EU. They clearly know how Westminster works. Of course The London Government had zero intention of adhering to the terms of any agreement. That is how Westminster works – everybody has to stick to the rules, except England.

    The brexiteers are just angry because they have been sussed. By their reaction, it is absolutely clear exactly how the London Government was planning to behave with regard to the EU.

    Well done EU. More of the same, please.

  194. Vronsky says:

    The Electoral Commission was introduced as a protective buffer between professional politicians and the law. Complaints which used to be referred to the Procurator Fiscal (Crown Prosecution Service in England) are now passed to the Electoral Commission who decide if there is a case to be answered. The result is that polticians now escape legal action where previously they would have faced a court.

    Readers may remember the farcical EC ‘investigations’ which exonerated Jack McConnell and Wendy Alexander on well-documented irregularities.

  195. Smallaxe says:

    Good morning, Nana.
    Sunny but cold here this morning. Thank you for your links.
    Kettles on!

  196. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe 🙂

  197. Macart says:

    Mornin’ Nana

    Yeah, clocked that May piece and a few others on the subject besides.

    “Trusted and credible news sources” sez yer akchul PM without a hint of irony.

    Oh, and this: Theresa May today called for a new legal crackdown on the abuse of politicians and other public figures on social media, saying that online “bullying” has now become a growing “threat to democracy.”

    Aaaaand this: “It is online where some of the most troubling behaviour now occurs … As well as being places for empowering self-expression, online platforms can become places of intimidation and abuse … This squanders the opportunity new technology affords us to drive up political engagement, and can have the perverse effect of putting off participation from those who are not prepared to tolerate the levels of abuse which exist.” (again without a hint of irony)

    There are abusive people out there in the interwebby and social meeja. No question. No argument. People who threaten acts of violence against individuals, demographics, communities, you name it. There are those who use language poorly to incite violence or violent response in others and once again, no dispute here.

    If you were of a cynical persuasion however, you’d perhaps see the two subject matters above in a different light. Some folk may believe that what PM May is about has absolutely zero to do with civilizing debate and more to do with closing debate down. Closing down, not the psychopathic zoomers that Ms May’s own support aren’t exactly short of, but using their existence as an excuse to close down voices which prove dangerous to the political status quo. Closing down platforms where the public have a right of reply to the political class and their go to chums in the mainstream meeja.

    Some would maybe be forgiven for reaching the conclusion that this is less to do with protecting the public interest and its sources of ‘trusted and credible’ information as supporting a mainstream media that has served the political class so well as their go to soap box and manipulation tool of choice.

    If you were a cynical sod.

  198. Nana says:

    Good morning Macart, I guess you could call me cynical for sure.

    Be afraid and remember we have a way out of this madness, hopefully soon.

    A series exploring a range of extreme, worst-case scenarios, their likely impact, measures the general public could take, and a likely final outcome…

  199. Macart says:


    Yes, they’ve taught us to be cynical right enough. Also yes, I do think this is about closing down avenues of dissent against the political class and media.

    And HELL YES! We do have a way out of this madness. 😉

  200. Tatu3 says:

    Not all of Spain treats their pigs badly! Here in Extremadura they are treated very well indeed.

    Apologies it doesn’t archive

  201. Old Pete says:

    Last night I was at an SNP branch meeting in Prestwick where Bill Dale from Troon gave on excellent talk on reframing. I hope the SNP hierarchy get some training tips from Bill as he is a very knowledgeable man. We need to be ready and well trained to persuade the large minority of No voters who are open to listen and possibly change to yes.

  202. colin alexander says:


    My view is completely different from Rock’s.

    He is critical of the FM for seeking a separate deal for Scotland.

    I believe that is a completely democratic and legitimate course of action when 62% voted Remain. That is the issue that should be challenged in the courts, not whether Article 50 can be cancelled once triggered.

    It’s the Soft Brexit I have issues with. The SNP should not support Brexit in any shape or form as that’s ignoring the sovereign will to Remain in the EU.

  203. Baldeagle58 says:

    Good morning Nana.

    So many LINKS, so little time!
    Will have to catch up with them after work!

    Have a good day.

  204. Sinky says:

    Like the BBC, the North Britain newspaper fails to mention Ian Blackford or SNP in their coverage of RBS’s partial U turn on branch closures but quoted Labour’s Lesley Laird. FFS even the Daily Mail mentioned Ian Blackford on their front page.

    Hootsman also has Ruth Davidson on again about our low economic growth and highest taxed part of UK.

  205. Clootie says:

    O/T for info
    Common Travel Area Ireland and UK

    Common Travel Area
    Information Note from Ireland to the Article 50 Working Group


    1.1 ?The Common Travel Area (CTA) is a long-standing arrangement between Ireland and the United Kingdom which enables Irish and UK citizens to travel and reside in either jurisdiction without restriction and provides for associated rights and entitlements in both jurisdictions. The Common Travel Area predates membership of the EU by both Ireland and the UK and is not dependent on it.

    1.2?In part reflecting Ireland’s and the UK’s common law system, many of the arrangements and rights relating to the CTA are implicit, deriving from the status of Irish citizens in the UK and UK citizens in Ireland, and therefore have not been the subject of specific legislation or of an international agreement.

    1.3?The CTA is recognised in EU law by Protocol No. 20 to the Treaty on European Union and Treaty on the Functioning of the EU. This Protocol 20 to the TEU and TFEU provides that “The United Kingdom and Ireland may continue to make arrangements between themselves relating to the movement of persons between their territories (‘the Common Travel Area’)…”

    1.4?These arrangements exist alongside and complement the position of Northern Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement recognises “the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland”. CTA arrangements have therefore been essential in enabling people of Irish identity not to have to assert British citizenship rights in Northern Ireland in order, for instance, to establish the right to permanent residency in the place they were born or, following Brexit, the right to live and work there at all.

    Origins of the Common Travel Area

    2.1 ?Between 1801 and 1922, Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Notwithstanding the establishment of the Irish State in 1922, from a UK perspective, Irish citizens continued to be regarded as British subjects. As such, they had the same rights in the UK as UK citizens. Historically, therefore, following Irish independence Irish citizens continued to have a particular status in the UK, and it is this which has led to many of the CTA arrangements/rights being implicit, deriving from this status rather than from specific legislation or agreement.

    2.2 ?At the time of independence, the Irish legal perspective on citizenship was different to that of the UK, with Irish born citizens no longer regarded as being British subjects. As a result, while Ireland shared the wish to maintain the Common Travel Area arrangements, the treatment of UK citizens in Ireland did not automatically mirror the UK arrangements for Irish citizens in the UK.

    2.3?Although the 1922 definition of an Irish citizen did not encompass most UK citizens, UK citizens in Ireland were not treated as ‘aliens’ under Irish law. In practice they had a special status and for most matters were treated the same as Irish citizens with effect from the establishment of the Irish State. It was only with the introduction of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1935 that provision was made to allow for the granting of statutory reciprocity. This was eventually provided for by the Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies (Irish Citizenship Rights) Order 1949, which provided that UK citizens would enjoy in Ireland similar rights and privileges to those enjoyed by Irish citizens in the UK.

    2.4?This general approach of reciprocity was facilitated by both states having the same common law legal tradition. All UK legislation in force in Ireland in 1922 continued in force post-independence and remains in force (to the extent that it is not inconsistent with the Constitution) unless it has been specifically repealed at some stage by the Irish parliament.

    2.5 ?In 1948 Ireland declared itself a republic and revoked any role for the British monarch. Ireland was then regarded under British law as having left the Commonwealth. However, wishing to maintain the Common Travel Area arrangements, the British Parliament enacted the Ireland Act 1949. Section 2 (1) of that Act provides

    “It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom …”

    The status of Irish nationals was maintained under the Immigration Act 1971 and the British Nationality Act 1981.

    Common Travel Area Arrangements

    3.1 ?The basic principle guiding the operation of the CTA is that the Irish and UK Governments treat each other’s citizens in a similar manner to enable them to freely move between the two jurisdictions, and thereby reside and work in either jurisdiction, without the need for special permission. Associated rights, as well as ongoing cooperation between Irish and UK authorities, facilitate and support these arrangements. These arrangements have been in place since Irish independence, with the only period of interruption arising during and immediately after the Second World War.

    3.2?The CTA includes arrangements for Irish and UK nationals to travel ‘passport free’ between the two jurisdictions. As part of this, the CTA operates, to some degree, similar to the Schengen zone, where immigration authorities in both jurisdictions cooperate to protect the borders of the CTA and prevent its abuse. Information is also shared on visa applicants, asylum seekers, citizenship applications and police watch lists. There is also a joint British Irish Visa scheme for certain countries and joint operations to target abuses of the CTA.

    3.3?The arrangement, in line with the status of Irish and UK nationals in each other’s jurisdictions, also provides, broadly reciprocal rights on the freedom to reside, work and access services, including social security, health and education. Both countries generally provide for recognition of the other’s professional and academic qualifications.

    3.4?Various reciprocal bilateral arrangements governing access to social welfare benefits have been in place between Ireland and the UK. These arrangements are based on the premise of equal treatment of nationals of both States. The rules in place have been designed to protect people moving between both States and to minimise any disadvantage.

    3.5?The right to access the health systems in both the UK and Ireland depends on residence. There are no restrictions on residence of UK and Irish nationals in the other jurisdiction. A UK citizen resident in Ireland has access to public health services on a similar basis to an Irish citizen resident in Ireland. Reciprocal arrangements in respect of Irish citizens apply in the UK. There is extensive co-operation on a number of all-island and cross-border health care services due to the mobility of people on the island, the size of populations and the unique geography. This encompasses both emergency and non-emergency care, including planned treatment and emergency transfers on the island of Ireland and between Ireland and Great Britain. This may involve health professionals working in the other jurisdiction. There are also other arrangements for health co-operation.
    3.6?Neither Ireland nor the UK is in the Schengen area. After the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, Ireland intends to remain outside of the Schengen area and will continue to fully uphold its obligations as an EU Member State. Protocols 19, 20 and 21 of the EU Treaties will continue to apply.

    3.7?Analysis by the Irish authorities has not identified any legal barrier to the arrangements as outlined above being maintained in a manner fully consistent with Ireland’s EU obligations.?


  206. galamcennalath says:

    Right now, Scotland is better served by the Irish news media than by those more local entities which are supposed to be fulfilling the role of reporting and informing.

  207. Les Wilson says:

    O/T For those who watch Amazon Prime, the new ” Grand Tour” series something no one has commented on to my knowledge.
    At the beginning of latest series, in fact at the start of all episodes, there is a moving cross country map showing the countries their team has been to.

    It zooms through Europe showing their taken paths in the series.
    It comes to Britain, surprisingly it shows Scotland as a separate country from the United Kingdom. Scotland is written in bold right across it, and border is shown.England is not called England but as the United Kingdom.

    I am taken aback that the forces to be, are allowing Amazon to portray Scotland which appears as a different Country, probably will not last now. But maybe a sign of times coming. It is a wee bit uplifting.

  208. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    So The MayBot, UKOKs ‘Strong and Stable’ Prime Minister regards the RBS bank closures as a ‘commercial’ matter for RBS ‘cos Internet Banking and stuff so f*ck local banking provision in towns losing their last bank.

    but at the same time

    She thinks that the closure of dead tree press is “a danger to democracy” and wants a review of sustainable business models for quality journalism at a local, regional and national level ‘cos they are losing advertising revenue to Internet News Platforms.

    So only worth intervening in a businesses “comer decisions” if UKOK stand to lose a string of their Propaganda bow.

    How very Tory.

  209. Bill Dale says:

    Old Pete – glad that you found it useful. I have sent a summary to John W to distribute to branch members. My Reframing work is largely based on the work of Prof. George Lakoff in California, combined with over 40 years of experience in strategic marketing and management.

    As I said in the talk, it is essential to have the facts to hand and Wings is the site par excellence for obtaining referenced information. Unfortunately facts alone are not enough but now you know what to do to use them on those who can be persuaded.

    Also remember Triage, spend your time on the priority viz. those who could vote Yes in future, while keeping existing Yes people on side. Ignore those who are never going to be convinced.

  210. Luigi says:


    I am starting a new job in Ireland next month. A couple of queries you may be able to help me with:

    1. How long can you drive a UK car in the Republic before registering it over there?

    2. Can I apply for Irish (EU) citizenship after a few years? (I have no relatives or family history in Ireland).

  211. Robert Peffers says:

    @Sinky says: 6 February, 2018 at 10:31 am:

    “Electoral Commission is useless when it comes to taking on the Establishment.”

    That’ll be because the Electoral “Commission”, (the clue is in the title), are obviously a part of that Establishment.

    They are, as their title states, “commissioned”. – but who is it that provides that commission?

    commission –
    noun: commission; plural noun: commissions

    1. an instruction, command, or role given to a person or group.

    synonyms: task, employment, job, work, piece of work, project, mission, assignment, undertaking, exercise, enterprise, endeavour, solution; duty, charge, responsibility, burden;

    •archaic – the authority to perform a task or certain duties.
    “the divine Commission of Christ”

    synonyms: warrant, licence, sanction, authority

    2. a group of people entrusted by a government or other official body with authority to do something.

    synonyms: committee, board, board of commissioners, council, panel, directorate, advisory body, advisorate, convocation, delegation.

    Just to make the point, try to find out the details of how they are funded via your chosen Search Engine..

    (Hint:- It won’t be easy to track down).

    Then have a wee look at who the individual commissioners, (that’s the paid Commissioned members), are.

    Start with their chairperson and note, anyone who has a United Kingdom, “Title”, is a paid for, (£300 per day member of the House of Lords), before you even find out how much they get for their chairmanship of the Commission and their basic fee for just being on the Commission, not to mention what their expenses may rake in.


    They are as independent as Scotland is at present but they differs in that, while Scotland seeks to be independent, “The Commission”, most certainly do not seek independence from the Establishment they are an integral part of and an Establishment which pays them so handsomely for their services.

  212. ronnie anderson says:

    PMSL I wonder if the BNP/NF will be giving up eating Cheddar now that they’ve found a mature Cheddar Man , their origins ur BLACKIE ( no racism intended ) statement from the BNP/NF imminent shurelly lol.

  213. Proud Cybernat says:

    BREAKING from Pravda Quay
    with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

  214. Robert Peffers says:

    @Mike R says: 6 February, 2018 at 11:16 am:

    “Alasdair Morgan is a fully paid up member of our local SNP party and a thouroughly nice guy.”

    Indeed he is, Mike R, BUT

    Like the House of Commons he is just one member of a, “Commission”, that consists of nine members. Thus, like the commons, there is an 8:1 discrepancy in each and every decision they take.

    Like Westminster, no matter how the Scots members vote, they will always be outvoted in every decision taken. The only benefit that Scotland gets from their membership in any Westminster Establishment set-up is that we have someone on the inside keeping tabs.

    But note that, like the HOC, where the non-Scottish majority at worse drown out the Scottish voices with background chatter, and often jeering, and at best they just ignore anything, and everything, to do with Scottish interests.

    Not to mention the deployment of EVEL that actively bars all non-English stuff being interfered with by Wales, N.I. & Scotland.

  215. heedtracker says:

    Proud Cybernat says:
    7 February, 2018 at 11:59 am
    BREAKING from Pravda Quay
    with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

    Good point. How come Teresa’s been mute for yonks about the fascists at the Heil relentlessly monstering immigrants and muslims, for example?

    Heil fascists are just the tip of the tory tabloid sewer but lovely if you’re a fascist that enjoys looking at little girls in the underpants.

  216. @Bill Dale

    `Conversation not Confrontation`.

  217. Clootie says:

    @ Luigi

    I belief it is 5 years “reckonable residence” e.g. A student visa period does not count I belief

    Basing UK reg’d car in Southern Ireland
    You need to have owned and have proof of ownership for at least 6 months to avoid VRT.

    To keep a UK registered car in Ireland you would still need to pay UK road tax and you can’t get road tax with a valid MOT certificate, the Irish NCT wouldn’t be accepted and they wouldn’t do an NCT on a UK registered car.

    Your best be would be to buy the car in the UK and keep it for 6 months to avoid paying VRT, then bring it to Ireland. Register it there and get Irish plates then you can tax and insure it without any problems.

  218. Bob Mack says:

    I wonder how many press “Barons” and their contributions to political parties lie behind the censorship of Social media.

    Is this them hoping that people will have to return to their rags in order to get news and possibly boost circulation.

    When you add this to the news that many new reporters are being hired to work as journalists and paid for by the BBC, it all begins to look very contrived,does it not?

  219. galamcennalath says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    When the Tories say “threat to democracy”, they use the term democracy in the same way as they associate Westminster with democracy! It’s not a connection the rest of us see. Their notion of democracy bears little relation to ours!

    It is true that the expanding online alternative to their diminishing legacy media is a threat to their system of government.

    Of course they see that as a problem. The rest of us see it as progress.

  220. Robert Graham says:

    o/t – Oh dear a open goal totally missed by Ian Blacford at PMQs .

    In reply to a question about bank closures , this PM stated it was the fault of the SNP governments actions that people don’t have access to Internet banking ,

    What a barefaced Lie , that wasn’t jumped on from a great height l

    I know Ian must have had prepared questions but dear dear letting that Lie go unchallenged .

  221. Proud Cybernat says:

    LIVE from Pravda Quay
    with Union Jackie Kim Ono

  222. gus1940 says:

    If one takes care to avoid the usual twisted utterances of Kenneth Roy and David Torrance’s nonsense there is an excellent essay by Keith Aitken in this week’s Scottish Review.

    There is also a hilarious account of a chimney sweeping disaster in the old newspaper reports.

  223. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I have seen a few posts lately commenting on this new scheme, whereby the BBC is signing agreements with local newspaper groups to tap into their local coverage.

    Some posters see this as big business/Unionist censorship, and, while there may a modicum of truth in this, I see it slightly differently – I see it as the major media groups seeking to augment their falling income streams by taking control of a long-established principle – that of the lineage pool.

    In well-run local newspaper offices, the staff reporters would set-up a freelance company, whose sole purpose was to sell-on those local stories which had a national interest to the BBC and the national newspapers. The income from these sales was then split among the staff.

    This new BBC deal is the same, except, the income now goes to the local paper’s owners, rather than to their staff. The lineage pool was also a good way for the nationals to keep an eye on promising talent on the locals.

    If they got a regular supply of good copy from a particular local paper staffer, then that reporter had a good chance of getting hired when a vacancy arose.

    Also, local journalists who were known to the nationals, would be offered casual subbing or reorting shifts and the like, which often led to staff jobs.

    This new arrangement will hurt independent locally-based freelances, and might harm the employment prospects with the nationals, of some good, young, local journalists.

  224. heedtracker says:

    Great links Nana!

    And the US and UK are using this immense power to eliminate foreign citizens, and their own. Furthermore, leaks have revealed that drone strikes have an appalling record for accuracy; during one five-month period of a US operation in Afghanistan, for example, almost nine out of ten people killed in air strikes were not the actual target.”

    There’s a giant drone factory outside Cambridge, among many other giant military industrial complex multi billion UK gov plants in the area. Its not a secret down there but they are massive local economy boosts, for the south east of England, as per…

    But we Scots do get the 19,000 jobs from Trident nukes,

    At the very least, our imperial masters are NOT stupid to store their weapons of mass destruction anywhere near them.

    That’s actually nearly a line in Prometheus, from the great Idris Elba at the end, when they find out what Alien actually is.

    Only in the teamGB zone, do we sit in cinemas here in Scotland, watching sci-fi, as our tory masters, red and blue, make it all reality.

  225. starlaw says:

    Where have all the Metro’s gone, not so long ago bus’s were strewn with this rag, now I don’t see them I thought that they were no longer on the bus’s until this morning when I saw a Lady reach for one then stop.
    On leaving the bus I had a peek and saw the Metro box full off them, some had been looked at and put back, but just two or three.
    Hopefully the public have grown tired of this, along with the rest.

  226. heedtracker says:

    Hopefully the public have grown tired of this, along with the rest.

    That’s actually me Starlaw. I always scoop up as many as I can every morning and place them carefully in the bin, here in south side Glasgow. Its rather cathartic actually.

    Legend foretells that it is fascist Paul Dacre’s free give away only on weekdays, its unlikely that the nazi himself takes a Glasgow bus at 8am, so give it go, if you get the bus. Its winter only for me though, recycling of their free fascist creep out, sorry hand out, actual cycling from Easter:D

    But even then, nothing to prevent popping on to the bus and asking the drivers, for all of their free shit rags.

    Last one I did read Metro fascists were really monstering Angela Merkel hard and Catalan’s indy too.

    Maybe Metro’s a nursery for the Heil’s hard core fascists.

  227. Sinky says:

    Further evidence that it suits Westminster for Electoral Commission to be as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    This week’s Private Eye reports that only 46 MPs backed Sir Ian Kennedy as a commissioner as he was too strict on MPs expenses claims. He was opposed by both Labour and Tory backbenchers

    Mind you this is the same fearless Private Eye that won’t cover dubious backgrounds of the recent Tory MPs from Scotland or the Scotland In Union donors / political campaign spending scandal.

  228. Proud Cybernat says:


    Chuka Umunna
    Verified account

    8m8 minutes ago

    Theresa May is given the opportunity at #PMQs to guarantee the NHS won’t be used as a bargaining chip in trade talks with the United States, and ducks the question. Hard Brexit is a direct threat to the NHS.

  229. cearc says:


    Seeking new pearls?

  230. Robert Graham says:

    o/t again Smith on BBC national news stretching credible truth in saying the chief constable was due to resume his post until the intervention of the justice secretary . Really not quite sure that’s how events played out sweetie .

    This was a report on the resignation of the chief constable by you guessed it by BBC Scotland .

    Anything broadcast by this lot needs to be viewed with suspicion .

  231. heedtracker says:

    It is true that the expanding online alternative to their diminishing legacy media is a threat to their system of government.

    Of course they see that as a problem. The rest of us see it as progress”

    But if Teresa’s toryboy’s make it against the law to insult them online, its entirely possible that a lot of non toryboy worshipers will have an early morning visit from plod, armoured up and ready to rock. Just like this one blog up there shows.

    One of the biggest problems facing any “democracy” and law making, is policing us with our consent.

    Will plod have the resources to race around all the millions of UK citizens that are rude about the toryboy scumbags online anyway?

    What will the courts do with us all, once they’ve taken our pc’s, tablets, phones?

    The UK courts are always making clear choices on penalties for criminals but a lot of their choices come down to simple facts of UKOK life, there are just not enough spaces in UK slammers.

    See you in the big house:D

    And lets face it, an awful of our imperial masters here in Scotland would love to stick us all in jail. They used to export us to colonies, Oz, Carolina, Virginia.

    A lot of captured Culloden Highlanders ended up slaves in America.

  232. mike cassidy says:

    The more things change …..

    Social media abuse from last century

  233. Petra says:

    I don’t know if it has been reported on here already but BBC stating that Gormley has resigned.

  234. r.esquierdo says:

    A see the new BBC weather page has scrubbed the Scottish weather forecasts nae mair shaun or Judith

  235. PictAtRandom says:

    O/T: Dipping into the Daily Mule:

    I’m sure that this reminds me of someone else —

    “While she was canvassing in last year’s general election, the word ‘Conservative’ was consigned to the bottom corner of ‘Vote Soubry’ posters in her Broxtowe constituency. This spoke volumes of the 61-year-old’s sense of loyalty. The emphasis was on herself – me, me, me.”

  236. Robert Graham says:

    Oh doesn’t Jockland look huge on the BBC weather map

    Sure gives a totally different outlook on how England has been reverted to its real size.

    No they ain’t that big or that intimidating are they just a biggish neighbor with real problems ” US ” .

  237. Proud Cybernat says:


    From what I’ve been seeing on Twitter, it looks like the main BritNat counter to independence in IndyRef2 will be the Scotland does more trade with rUK than EU schtick & also that the EU won’t allow Scotland to trade with rUK if no BREXIT deal.

    We need to get these ‘arguments’ nailed and nailed fast.

  238. galamcennalath says:

    “Taoiseach warns UK against breaking Brexit agreement

    Varadkar says ‘black and white’ commitments and guarantees are contained in December deals “

    The Irish have much experience of perfidious Albion!

  239. Mike d says:

    O/t According to the kings fund the percentage of GDP spent on healthcare in the UK is 6.6%-well below the EU average of 10.1%. What Scotland has to spend is directly affected by how much westminster spends. Ìf the uk’s percentage of GDP spent on health was brought up to the EU average it would add almost £5 billion to the annual SNHS health and social care budget. Still better together? Still time to save the SNHS. Vote for independence.

  240. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    the EU won’t allow Scotland to trade with rUK if no BREXIT deal

    A counter to that would be … “would we really want to trade so much with a dodgy deregulated country which has been flooded with food from the Americas which is unfit for human consumption by EU standards?”

    Or … “do we want Scotland’s high end quality food production destroyed?”

    The UK economy is three quarters services rather than actual production and trade in goods anyway.

    Of course iScotland will trade with iEngland, but it will be less. That seems inevitable. So what? It doesn’t necessarily mean job losses. We find new markets for exports, we consume more local or EU produce, and we make the most of all those dozens of excellent trade deals the EU has agreed for members.

  241. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ galamcennalath

    Varadkar says ‘black and white’ commitments and guarantees are contained in December deals “

    Perfidious Albion indeed. WM simply HAD to get through Stage One of the BREXIT negotiations, not to get to the meaty trade discussions but simply if they did not get beyond Stage One then the talks would have collapsed and everyone would now know that there is no deal.

    But WM are playing for time. IMV, they simply have NO INTENTION of securing any EU BREXIT deal and are eyeing a NO DEAL. But they have to be SEEN to be saying all the right things just now to the Irish in order to get into Stage Two negotiations, in order to RUN DOWN THE CLOCK.

    That is all they are doing. They have never had any plan or any plan to have any plan. They have no impact assessments because they know what they want. HARD BREXIT. Sell off the NHS to Trump, Irish re-unification (NI costing London too much money) and Scotland locked into the UK (’cause we’re its cash cow) – we won’t be able to trade with EU if no BREXIT deal and THAT is why they WANT a No Deal, concrete hard BREXIT. How can we sell indy in IR2 if there’s a hard Brexit? UK will say “EU won’t allow you to trade with UK, your biggest market.” THAT is why they want a Hard BREXIT.

    Solves the Irish question, the Scottish question and gives the hard Brexiteers wet dreams of being buccaneers of the high seas.

    Someone tell me I’m just having a real bad nightmare – please.

  242. gus1940 says:

    Can somebody produce an image of the old and new weather maps of The UK alongside each other.

  243. PictAtRandom says:

    Clearly the solution which honours the December Deal and pleases those who want to end freedom of movement and the customs union is for TM to execute a Hard Brexit while simultaneously “doing a King Hussein” and relinquishing sovereignty over Norn Iron. Should all work out fine.

    Then Foxy can pop up and say what a boost it’s been to “entrepreneurial importers” in Larne and Crosmaglen.

  244. heedtracker says:

    gus1940 says:
    7 February, 2018 at 2:13 pm
    Can somebody produce an image of the old and new weather maps of The UK alongside each other.

    Google British isles?

    They’ll probably still be called that after independence.

  245. Dr Jim says:

    BBC Reporting Scotland hits back by producing its weather map of Scotland even smaller than it was before

    They’ll soon be saying *Nya Nya Na Nya Nya, Meh* we’ve got the pow-er

  246. Referendum1707 says:

    Mick Clark 6.17am

    THREE times I tried to register with the online National, three times no activation email was sent. And no there were no typos in the address I gave.

    Then contacted the help dept, checked sent folder to ensure that it was sent, it was sent. After two days no reply and still no reply. Not good.

  247. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Gus1940

    Weather Maps

  248. Cherry says:

    @Referendum 1707 try this chap he has been very helpful to me in the past.

  249. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    we won’t be able to trade with EU if no BREXIT deal and THAT is why they WANT a No Deal

    I hadn’t thought about it that way.

    I have always thought keeping Scotland in their Union was more important to them than however Brexit plays out.

    My feeling was that a soft (in single market) outcome would stop IndyRef2 and save their Union for a while.

    In parallel I have found it very hard to believe hard right will settle down if there is a Brexit outcome which falls short of their objectives.

    The two are mutually exclusive, I thought.

    You suggest a distinctly possible alternative! They want to go hard and if they believe that can help them win the inevitable IndyRef2, they will go for it!

  250. T.roz says:

    Robert Graham 12.27.

    Well said.

  251. Graeme says:

    7 February, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    @ galamcennalath

    Varadkar says ‘black and white’ commitments and guarantees are contained in December deals “

    Perfidious Albion indeed. WM simply HAD to get through Stage One of the BREXIT negotiations, not to get to the meaty trade discussions but simply if they did not get beyond Stage One then the talks would have collapsed and everyone would now know that there is no deal.

    But WM are playing for time. IMV, they simply have NO INTENTION of securing any EU BREXIT deal and are eyeing a NO DEAL. But they have to be SEEN to be saying all the right things just now to the Irish in order to get into Stage Two negotiations, in order to RUN DOWN THE CLOCK.

    That is all they are doing. They have never had any plan or any plan to have any plan. They have no impact assessments because they know what they want. HARD BREXIT. Sell off the NHS to Trump, Irish re-unification (NI costing London too much money) and Scotland locked into the UK (’cause we’re its cash cow) – we won’t be able to trade with EU if no BREXIT deal and THAT is why they WANT a No Deal, concrete hard BREXIT. How can we sell indy in IR2 if there’s a hard Brexit? UK will say “EU won’t allow you to trade with UK, your biggest market.” THAT is why they want a Hard BREXIT.

    Solves the Irish question, the Scottish question and gives the hard Brexiteers wet dreams of being buccaneers of the high seas.

    Someone tell me I’m just having a real bad nightmare – please.


    What worries me most about the above scenario (which is perfectly plausible) is if there’s Irish reunification before Indyref2, that could mean a massive influx of Ulster unionists flooding into Scotland making a YES vote even more unlikely.

  252. Luigi says:

    cearc says:

    7 February, 2018 at 1:06 pm


    Seeking new pearls?

    Well, Creac, I need to have a second escape plan, just in case you know – if the Scottish people are daft enough to throw away their big opportunity to escape when it comes, at least I still have options.

    In that unhappy (hopefully unlikely) event, there is no way I am staying in BREXIT UK, not if I can help it. 🙁

    Thanks Clootie for the info!

  253. Breastplate says:

    It’s not trade that is a problem for rUK, it’s the cost of trade.
    They will be able to trade with anyone and anywhere at a cost (tariff).
    The rUK will have little choice but to import the things they need and there are many things that rUK will require that they don’t produce or don’t produce enough of.

  254. Old Pete says:

    Graeme you are spot on regarding a possible flood of Ulster loyalists. Scotland would become polarized with sectarian hate and the cause for Scottish Independence would be lost forever.

  255. Breastplate says:

    If the rUK don’t want to buy Scottish goods, it’s up to us to sell them elsewhere.

  256. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi gus1940 at 2:13 pm.

    You asked,
    “Can somebody produce an image of the old and new weather maps of The UK alongside each other.”

    This one is even more stark than the side-by-side ones.

  257. Bill not Ben says:

    In the last 3 years i have been involved in 2 court cases, both cases happened because of lying police officers, ofc i won both cases because the P/f office left both to the last day to throw both cases out, i was raging ofc, because i wanted those liars to stand up in court and take the oath.
    I had video evidence to prove i was innocent and the p/f took months to give the video to my lawyer, and it proved it was all lies by the police
    Justice, those cretins would not recognise justice and truth if it jumped up and bit them on the arse

  258. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Breastplate @ 15:12,

    Yes. Like energy, fr’instance. We would be happy to trade with rUK, but if they don’t want to, well…

    …they can just let the lights go out while waiting for their shiny new Chinese-built nuclear reactor to finally go onstream by the middle of the century, if they’re lucky. Meanwhile it’ll be so jolly for them, the early 1970’s revisited. (They’re so into that retro thing, aren’t they?)

    Though clearly they are desperate to keep their hands on it all for free if they possibly can. We the natives are just an inconvenient encumbrance that have to be continually conned to be grateful for their “generous and gracious management”.

  259. starlaw says:

    Old Pete 3.13

    Ulster Loyalists are queuing up in droves for their shiny new ROI passports. Do you think they are stupid.

  260. Proud Cybernat says:

    If the scenario I’ve outlined above is anywhere near the Tories actual plan, then the Tories saying there will be a frictionless border between N & S Ireland and that people in NI will be able to keep their passports after UK BREXITS is all perfectly true. May is keeping her ‘deal’ with the DUP – a – frictionless border. Except the DUP haven’t twigged (maybe they have) exactly what May has in mind. She needs the DUP support to run down the clock and so must make it appear that UK is sincere about securing a EU trade deal. As soon as the clock has run down and we hard Brexit, it’s cheerio DUP and NI, and probably another UK GE to give Treeza a majority to ‘Rebuild Britain’.

    Treeza should keep in mind though – when you fly wi’ the DUP, you get shot wi’ the DUP.

  261. Sandy says:

    Re trading with rUK.

    What do we need from Angleland that we can get elsewhere. We can feed ourselves, have plenty of water, plenty of power. Food not produced in Scotland can easily be obtained.
    Manufactured goods? Just remember the Austin/Morris 1100 & sister vehicles from British Leyland, the English meat in our supermarkets (should have been delivered to the local cobbler), etc. One export we get in abundance is grief & misery.
    What do you do if you have a pimple or boil on your backside? You get rid of it, of course.

  262. Sandy says:

    Re trading with rUK.

    What do we need from Angleland that we can get elsewhere. We can feed ourselves, have plenty of water, plenty of power. Food not produced in Scotland can easily be obtained.
    Manufactured goods? Just remember the Austin/Morris 1100 & sister vehicles from British Leyland, the English meat in our supermarkets (should have been delivered to the local cobbler), etc. One export we get in abundance is grief & misery.
    What do you do if you have a pimple or boil on your backside? You get rid of it, of course.

  263. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Reverse Rotterdam Effect” @Proud Cybernat says at 1:48 pm

    That’s all you need to say for the rUK being Scotlands biggest export market.

    All due to underinvestment in Infrastructure and the funnelling of exports to Europe and the rest of the world via SE England.

    Also look at trade deficit per UK Country (excludes oil and gas):

    Yet the BritNats would have you believe England would not trade with an Independent Scotland.

  264. wull2 says:

    I love when someone thinks of their next move, and spoils the future move which many YES people had not thought.

    Keep exposing their next possible move. There is a lot of us to play out every move.

  265. galamcennalath says:

    Sandy says:

    Just remember … the English meat in our supermarkets

    That’s not a memory, that’s current. Scottish beef is labelled ‘Scotch Beef’ while English beef is labelled ‘British Beef’.

    One is a quality grass fed product, the other is largely a by product of the dairy industry and likely to have been reared on soya meal. The two taste utterly different. Paradoxically, I don’t notice much price difference though!

    Your general point is correct. There is a lot of cross border trading with equivalent items going in both directions. Independence from a hard EngExit rUK would simply mean we see more Scottish products in our shops.

    But trade will continue. If the English car industry doesn’t do a trade deal with the EU covering cars, then models assembled and primarily sources in the EU will be ~8% cheaper that rUK cars with tariffs. We would get ours from the EU and partners. If rUK is an EU trade partner, then fair enough. If not, tough.

  266. Albert Herring says:

    Less trade with England after indy?

    Great! Fewer Butcher’s Swastikas in the shops!

  267. Vestas says:

    For those of you above stating you haven’t thought possible Brexit scenarios through, have you considered that all the Brit state/tories want is a suitable scapegoat for their failures? Then the Brit establishment can get on with enriching themselves while blaming “others” as always.

    Eire is (IMHO) being set up for that “others” role.

    The tory hard right will push for something that’s almost acceptable to the right-wing (there’s a lot!) of the EU but totally unacceptable to Eire/GF Agreement. Eire will veto anything on the table and there we go – all the tabloids will be shouting “Dirty Irish Bastards” & “Close the Borders”.

    All the tories/English MSM need right now is a scapegoat to blame all their own failings on. Eire looks like favourite for that role.

    Oh and I’m very amused some of you think the Electoral Commission/Crown Office/CPS act in anyone’s interests other than the Brit state.

    What was it – sixteen seats minimum the tories stole in 2015 via electoral fraud?

    One MP (possibly)gets made an example of, the rest get let off (not even fined in some instances) and this passed you all by until Stu points some of the EC’s failings out?

    Oh and as someone who browses BTL less than I did, many of you post long, long LONG posts saying exactly the same thing you’ve said HUNDREDS OF TIMES to the same/similar trolls.

    Get a grip, you may think you’re doing the right thing but you are boring the arse off people. Seriously if you’re about to cut and paste that comment regarding sovereignty/law/land/whatever for the umpteenth time then just don’t please.

  268. North chiel says:

    “Galamcennalth/re proud cybernat @0242pm “ the retention of the “ precious precious ( for them) union” has and is the absolute priority . If the Tories can “ have their cake and eat it” then win /win is hard brexit& win in any Indyref2 . However, they are keeping options open ( vagueness no firm position on negotiations , media smokescreen etc.) , as they will be watching the opinion polls intently as Brexit develops. If opinion in Scotland moves towards Independence the Brexit position could change . A general election could be “ engineered” if necessary and a “ softer Brexit “ under a Labour government could be the establishment “ fall- back position” to save the union.
    As regards trade etc. surely the Scottish government can make the case for a market of 500 million as opposed to 60 million for Scottish exports. The EU 27 would be queing up to buy our quality produce and how about an undersea cable to continental Europe for our electricity ? I am sure Germany and Eastern Europe would purchase far in excess of RUK ?
    We need Indyref2 before end of Brexit transition and any Irish unification vote.I am certain that our wonderful FM is completely aware of all scenarios and will get the timing right .

  269. Dr Jim says:

    The English might be pedantically idiotic about their Empire Flag Waving we won the war nonsense but they’re not stupid and just like every other country in the world

    They’ll trade!

    Because they need to, and because if Scotland is part of a larger trading block whichever that may turn out to be the rest of that block would would sanction Lil Old England for being a bunch of twits

    So their daft wee veiled threats are MINCE! plus Scotland sells quality mince from quality Coos!

    Of course we could retaliate by switching the lights off in Leeds

    England’s politicians are like a kids comic when they start this pish *Tories go mad in Dorset” with lashings of ginger beer and %%%% of trading sandwiches

  270. Mike d says:

    Graeme 3.06pm That is exactly what will happen (if not happening already) by “loyalists ” who can see the writing on the wall. Flood into Scotland then deny us our independence. We’ll get one chance at this and we need to get it right.Or these barstewards will keep us servile forever.

  271. Bob Mack says:

    Very important story breaking in Holland. A Dutch judge has remitted a case to the European Courts after a group of UK citizens brought a case stating that the UK could not and should not deprive them of their EU citizenship.

    The judge stated that even as a result a referendum run by a Democracy, individuals or minorities should not be disadvantaged by the outcome.

    It’s going to the big court people.

  272. Mike d says:

    Should have said then when the ulster loyalists come to Scotland with their shiny new ROI passports. They can be EU citizens (but we cant) and still be in their precious f*****g union waving their flegs.UNF*****G BELIEVABLE.

  273. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Also as for:

    “we won’t be able to trade with EU if no BREXIT deal and THAT is why they WANT a No Deal”

    Of course they will be able to trade with iScotland subject to:

    1. Complying with our Border Control and Customs Legislation

    2. Complying with our Food and Product Safety Legislation

    3. Paying the appropriate Trade Tarriffs (WTO, EU, EFTA or iScot Rules)

    Whether we wanted to import any dodgy foodstuffs or goods which have been
    bought into England dirt cheap from China, India, North and South America to name a few is a different question.


    1. England said it wouldn’t trade with an Independent America during the Revolutionary War but they did and trade increased to above pre war levels a few years later.

    2. England will NEED to buy energy from iScotland

    3. England’s Establishment WILL buy Scotch Beef, Lamb, Seafood and Whisky while the normal citizens can only afford chlorinated chicken and hormone riddled beef to show they’re superior to the plebs.

    4. The UKs National Debt is currently £1.98 Trillion

    It rises at a rate of £5,170 per second

    But in 2014 iScotland would have been sucked into a £15 Billion black hole 😉

    England is sunk without our resources THAT IS THE TRUTH

  274. Mike d says:

    Bob mack. Certainly hope so Bob.these ar***roles are just daily rubbing our noses in it. JC what will it take for the decent people in Scotland to wake up?

  275. Graeme says:

    That is exactly what will happen (if not happening already) by “loyalists ” who can see the writing on the wall. Flood into Scotland then deny us our independence. We’ll get one chance at this and we need to get it right.Or these barstewards will keep us servile forever.


    We can avoid that with a 3/5 year residency limit

  276. galamcennalath says:

    North chiel says:

    If opinion in Scotland moves towards Independence the Brexit position could change

    I agree with your analysis. Their Union’s survival is top priority.

    Here’s a thought. If that is the game the Tories are playing (and I believe it could well be), then it is in our interests to play Indy low key just now. Which perhaps is exactly what the SG/SNP are doing!

    We want a swing to YES at a time of our choosing driven by a resurgent YES campaign capitalising on irresistible circumstances at that time.

    BritNats like to set the agenda. It’s important we don’t let them.

  277. galamcennalath says:

    Butcher’s Swastika ™ Albert Herring 🙂

  278. Scott says:

    O/T I just wonder if these srories will appear on RS tonight

    North-east fisherman fined for threatening to kill SNP politicians

    Tory MSP accused of ‘selling access’ in Holyrood parliament

    TORY MSP Peter Chapman has been accused of “selling access” after he broke Holyrood rules by asking for money to spend time with him in Parliament.
    A spokesman for the Tories said: “Mr Chapman has not been made aware of any complaint. However, if any rules have been broken, then there was certainly no intention to do so.”

  279. Mike d says:

    Graeme. “We can avoid that with a 3/5 year residency limit “. Exactly,which gives us our one chance at this.

  280. Scott says:

    Meant to say if Mr Matheson had said if any rules have been broken, then there was certainly no intention to do so.The Tories would be screaming from the rooftops.

  281. Macart says:

    RE: Trade within the UK being four times…yada, yada, yada.

    Probably worth challenging this meme on five fronts.

    1. Challenge those proposing such an action, who authorised the cessation of trade post indy and when such a cessation would begin?
    2. Are they aware of how much trade goes t’other way?
    3. Do they believe there scope for expansion of trade within the UK for Scotland or is there greater scope for a larger expansion of trade for an independent Scotland within the EU?
    4. Do they believe it right and proper that with Brexit, Scotland (who voted unanimously to remain) have been hauled out of a market against its express wishes?
    5. Do they believe it right and proper that UK gov are in the process of repatriating powers and access to resources not covered by their own favoured system of government and the current devolution settlement? That they are in fact driving a doubledecker bus through the Scotland bill and devolution settlement. Also against the express wishes of the mandated Scottish government?

    If they still insist on talking bollox… walk away and leave any listening/reading to ponder your points.

  282. Mike d says:

    Scott. Wonder what the English first minister will have to say about snp politicians being threatened with murder?……oh wait.

  283. Maria F says:

    When you see the establishment charging against insignificant unionist minions with all the force like this I cannot help but wanting to know even more who on earth is in that effing list.

    It is clear that the establishment would not be sending their police dogs like this if there was not somebody considered ‘important’ and ‘worthwhile’ protecting. And who could be important enough to bulldoze the home of an ordinary man, scaring his wife and very young son desperately hunting for the implicating evidence that exposes the arse of a bunch of parasitic aristocrats? Are we talking here about links to royalty or masons, perhaps? Who knows.

    Maybe this will set alarm bells ringing for the foot soldiers in SiU and Unite UK: minions, pro-union or not, are only useful for as long as they can be used as a shield to protect the establishment aristocratic parasites. Once one single hair of those parasites is in danger of being exposed and their sht starts to smell, then the establishment vicious dog will chomp indiscriminately unionists or independentists’ flesh to protect the wealthy parasites. And this is proof of it.

    Come on, Mr Clews, is there any pro-union aristocrat parasite out there who deserves more protection than your own son? Ditch the coward self-serving parasites. Scotland is for the people of Scotland. Scotland’s resources are for our children to enjoy, not for a bunch of parasitic aristocrats parasites that do not give a sht about Scotland or our children.

  284. heedtracker says:

    Toryboy’s got to tory.

    Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg’s motives for a successful Brexit have been dragged into the spotlight after it emerged the anti-Brussels backbencher is set to make serious cash from the UK’s divorce with the EU.”

    I think Leo Dicaprio should play Rees-Mogg in the Hollywood version of Rees-Mog the movie. Dicaprio does stinking rich arseholes to a T.

  285. Luigi says:

    starlaw says:

    7 February, 2018 at 3:28 pm

    Old Pete 3.13

    Ulster Loyalists are queuing up in droves for their shiny new ROI passports. Do you think they are stupid.

    Aye, the same folk (DUP minority) that probably voted to leave the EU. They want to have their cake and eat it. To hell with the rest of us. What about all this solidarity we were being bombarded with in 2014, you know about supporting fellow working folk in Liverpool and all that guff?

    Come on then, Ulster folk, what us poor people, your cousins in Glasgow and Dundee, being dragged out of the EU against our wishes?

  286. ronnie anderson says:

    Brexit means Brexit & today’s statement from the dispatch box by Theresa May is the same EU should tell them to GTF , before Thereza took to the floor we had Ian Paisley jun with his no surrender no surrender , so there is no hope of a Nth Sth Irish border deal remind me was that not supposed to be concluded prior to the 2nd stage of negotiations .

  287. colin alexander says:

    “The European Court of Justice (ECJ) is to be questioned on whether British people have rights to EU citizenship after Brexit.”

    This is a better test of the llegislation:

  288. Robert Louis says:

    As regards the British Nationalists in N.Ireland getting Irish passports, the instruction to do so came from none less than Ian Paisley. That is Paisley, the Antrim MP, of the DUP, who campaigned long and hard to leave the EU.

    The hypocrisy of British Nationalists is breathtaking.

    And then their is that tory creature, Rees Mogg, who will financially benefit personally from leaving the EU. No wonder he is so keen.

  289. frogesque says:

    I just want my Scottish passport

  290. Robert Louis says:


    It might be a good brexit analogy, but sadly one I and many others won’t see, as you need to ‘log in’. That is why facebook is utterly useless for sharing things.

  291. Proud Cybernat says:

    UK Gov BREXIT Impact Assessment just released…

    It’s bad, very bad.

  292. galamcennalath says:

    For Scotland, the UK government analysis predicts:

    Single market membership – GDP 2.5%
    Free trade deal – 6% lower
    No deal – 9% lower

    The Scottish government figures were:

    Single market membership – GDP 2.7%
    Free trade deal – 6.1% lower
    No deal – 8% lower

  293. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Louis says:

    It might be a good brexit analogy, but sadly one I and many others won’t see, as you need to ‘log in’.

    Hmmm. I don’t have a Facebook account and have therefore never logged in. I could see it.


    I agree Facebook is very odd.

  294. Robert Louis says:

    Just had a quick look at the brexit assessment figures. Oh, my, look at the poor North East of England. It will be wiped out economically. Theresa May today re-iterated the intention to pursue hard brexit, outside the customs union and outside the single market

    Single market membership – down 3%
    Free trade deal – down 11%
    No deal – down 16%

    Meanwhile DUP clown Ian Paisley shouts ‘no surrender’ to the EU.

    This won’t end well. Time for independence.

  295. Robert Louis says:

    I was trying to understand why the bigotted racist, homophobic DUP (founded by Ian Paisley snr.) in N. Ireland wanted out of the EU, and I think I have found out why.

    From the Wikipedia entry on Ian Paisley senior,

    In 1988, having given advance warning of his intentions, Paisley interrupted a speech being delivered by Pope John Paul II in the European Parliament. Paisley shouted “I denounce you as the Antichrist!” and held up a poster reading “Pope John Paul II ANTICHRIST”. Other MEPs jeered Paisley, threw papers at him and snatched his poster, but he produced another and continued shouting. He was admonished by Parliamentary President Lord Plumb, who formally excluded him. He was then forcibly removed from the chamber.[22][23][24][25] Paisley claims he was injured by other MEPs—including Otto von Habsburg—who struck him and threw objects at him.[26][27][28] Paisley believed the European Union is a part of a conspiracy to create a Roman Catholic superstate controlled by the Vatican. He claimed in an article that the seat no. 666 in the European Parliament is reserved for the Antichrist

    My bolding.

    Source :

    Why am I not surprised.

  296. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. Brexit. I don’t see how it well help address the colossal volume of international money laundering that takes place every day in London and dormitory towns in the Home Counties.

    Brexit vote could set back UK anti-corruption efforts, OECD warns

    The UK’s vote to leave the EU has raised concerns that the fight against corruption and bribery in the UK could be set back, according to a report by the OECD’s Working Group on Bribery in International Business Transactions

    The report warned that weaknesses in the UK’s anti money laundering system make it vulnerable to corrupt money flowing into the economy, and also cause problems in terms of detection, freezing, seizure and repatriation of corruptly-obtained assets.

  297. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT. I was listening to BBC radio earlier, I know. Anyway, I think it was Will Self visiting Scotland, where he managed to find two locals who voted Leave in the EU ref. One of them a Yes voter in 2014, both elderly.

    62% of Scottish votes were to Stay in the EU. Your desperation is ‘becoming’ embarrassing.

  298. Dorothy Devine says:

    STV describing Scotland as a region – what a bunch of tractors.

    Do regions have capital cities?

  299. frogesque says:

    @ Dorothy Define 6.41

    Also note new sparkly ‘correct’ BBC weather map has no borders for Wales or Scotland. And so it begins.

  300. Robert Peffers says:

    @Proud Cybernat says: 7 February, 2018 at 1:48 pm:

    “From what I’ve been seeing on Twitter, it looks like the main BritNat counter to independence in IndyRef2 will be the Scotland does more trade with rUK than EU schtick & also that the EU won’t allow Scotland to trade with rUK if no BREXIT deal.
    We need to get these ‘arguments’ nailed and nailed fast.”

    It has been nailed down for quite some considerable time now, Proud Cybernat.

    The facts are clear and known to Independence for Scotland activists. As I’ve been attempting to get across here on Wings for a considerable time, the SNP/SG’s main problem is the acutely biased, Westminster Establishment owned, SMSM and that includes the Westminster owned and controlled state broadcaster backed up strongly by the London financial sector owned, (so-called), independent Broadcast networks.

    These biased and fake news outlets are never going to tell the true facts to the electorate. It thus falls to us, the grass-roots activists, to get the truth out there to the electorate and it doesn’t take a newspaper, a TV or Radio studio and transmitter or expensive Bill boards. It doesn’t even require a printer and a willing bunch of leaflet delverers.

    It really is quite simple to do. It only takes one activist in the audience at a public meeting who knows the facts to demolish the concerted, and co-ordinated, lies about the Scottish economy.

    Here’s how, no matter who the speaker is that makes the claim that, “The United Kingdom is Scotland’s main export market” [sic erat scriptum], then the indy activist must ask the speaker to explain why Her Majesty’s Treasury accounts exports from Scotland as being exports from England even although it is a product from Scotland that is exported via English ports and airports.

    This not only wrongly reduces the real export figures from Scotland but wrongly inflated England’s export figures too – the proverbial, “Double Whammy”.

    It may also help the Indy cause if the activist knows a few other facts like those below.

    28% of the goods and services the United Kingdom produces are sold abroad and over 30% of what the United Kingdom buys in comes from non-United Kingdom countries. This means that as a whole the United Kingdom is a net importer of goods and services. Not a good thing to be.

    The United Kingdom’s top 10 countries, (in year 2015), that take United Kingdom exports are in descending order:-

    Germany, China, USA, Netherlands, France, Belgium & Luxembourg, Italy, Spain, Norway, Ireland.

    With Germany at around £65million and Ireland around £12.5 million.

    (Information source = Pink Book ONS).

    Now seven of those individual top 10 countries as destinations for United Kingdom Exports are in the European Union while six of the top destinations for services are also in the European Union.

    Ironically we must remember that those European Union figures are affected by an effect known as, “The Rotterdam Effect”, which is the effect of goods being sent around the world via the giant Dutch Rotterdam port, but being mistakenly classified as exports from the Netherlands. Note there is never a tiny cheep about the, “England Effect”, where the United Kingdom classes as English exports those Scottish produced goods leaving the United Kingdom via England. The United Kingdom classes these as English exports.

    Now we come to the nitty-gritty of the matter. Scotland is by far the source of much of the items on that list:-

    Britain’s most popular food and drink exports in £m, for year 2016, were in descending order:-

    Whisky at £4095.3 million.
    Chocolate at £663.4 million.
    Beer at £595.4 million.
    Salmon at £579.2 million.
    Cheese at £498.8 million.
    Wine at £490.1 million.
    Gin at £475.0 million.
    Beef at £446.8 million.
    Soft Drinks at 427.8 million.
    Wheat at £389.2 million.

    Source: Food and Drink Federation, HMRC

    The entire Whisky exports are all Scottish as is over 70% of United Kingdom Gin but Scotland also figures very high for the production of beer, wine chocolate and salmon. We also top the table in many engineering exports and pharmaceuticals and we top the league for fuel and power exports too.

    That lot of, (United Kingdom ONS), figures will show the lie that Scotland’s exports are mainly to England. They are mainly Scottish exports to the World being hi-jacked as English exports.
    What the hell else did you imagine the great explosion of Butcher’s Aprons on Scottish goods was all about?

    In point of fact English Exports are mainly all service industry and car exports. Much of which will vanish from England after BRUKEXIT as the Financial Sector will simply pull out of London and most of the vehicle manufacture is foreign anyway and they have no existing need for using England as their European base post BRUKEXIT.

    If you cannot see what Westminster is attempting to do then you really need to think about it a little more carefully.

  301. Macart says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    Good catch and a link worth spreading.

    All those…’people’… in the media who had a damn good snark at Scotgov’s version? You lot can form an orderly queue to proffer an apology to Scotland’s First Minister. The lady is due one at this point. That is, when you’re all finished screwing about in people’s lives.

    In your own time then.

  302. stewartb says:

    CameronB Brodie @ 6:30 pm

    Re – your comments on BBC Radio 4’s programme today with Will Self interviewing a couple of people in Scotland.

    I heard this too and as well as both those selected being Leave voters in the EU Ref as you pointed out (so hardly representative of Scotland), the guy who voted Yes in 2014 went on to explain his vote for Indy based (bizarrely)on Scotland’s victory at the Battle of Bannockburn! (Sighs!) Did the profile of the case for Yes no favours.

    Very poor stuff from a broadcaster that professes to inform and educate – and really not serving the middle England listeners of Radio 4 well.

  303. Robert Peffers says:

    @Proud Cybernat says: 7 February, 2018 at 2:09 pm:

    “Someone tell me I’m just having a real bad nightmare – please.”

    I already have done so, Proud Cybernat, but please excuse me for being a bit late with answers as I had the extremely sad task of attending my youngest son’s funeral yesterday.

    It is very, very hard when an old disabled and sick father survives his youngest son. If given a choice I would willingly have reversed the circumstances and it would be he who was grieving today.

  304. gus1940 says:

    I have yet to see a list of those who attended the SIU Burns Supper.

    If one exists can we see it please?

  305. Nana says:

    @Robert Peffers

    So very sorry for your loss Robert. Words are never enough during times like these. Be sure to take time to grieve and look after yourself xx

  306. Cactus says:

    Pay focus and spend some time thinkin’ about that.

    Where will we be at in March ’18…

    Love Scotland.

    SIU baaahd.


  307. galamcennalath says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Very sad news indeed. My thoughts are with you. Take care.

  308. North chiel says:

    “ Galamcennalth @0448pm” “ we need a swing to Yes at a time of our choosing”. Indeed we do , and the longer this “ Tory Brexit shambles” continues , with our FM “ biting her lip” , when she does decide to “ intervene” , I am convinced that the people of Scotland will finally get right behind her . The “ gloves will come off” and it will be an almighty shock to the “ Westminster establishment “ .I believe that a short sharp “ blistering campaign” will win the day and the the “ establishment propaganda state mouthpieces” would be denied time to “ brainwash the electorate” as in 2014.
    The present tactic of ( don’t mention the word Scotland on any of the state 24 hour news channels ( in any Brexit or political context) , will backfire spectacularly.
    Here’s hoping it all ends successfully for our wonderful FM . She deserves no less.

  309. Mike d says:

    Robert peffers. Sorry about your sad loss Robert.

  310. Bob Mack says:

    @Robert Peffers,

    My condolences Robert. I understand your feelings completely.

  311. Proud Cybernat says:

    Very sorry to hear that news, Robert. My thoughts are with you.

  312. Scott says:

    I said at 2018 at 4:54 pm

    Have been proved right no mention of the two stories mentioned,I liked the weather man who asked the bird if she remembered the Scots actor who died 1921

  313. Croompenstein says:

    Very sorry for your loss Robert take care of yourself

  314. Liz g says:

    Oh Robert I am so very sorry for your loss!
    My thoughts are with you and yours.

  315. Hamish100 says:

    Robert Peffers

    Life can throw many things at you but your loss has to be one of the worst. Condolences

  316. Bill Hume says:

    Robert Peffers,
    I too have buried a son. It’s the worst thing that any parent can endure.
    My thoughts are with you.

  317. Fred says:

    @ Bob Peffers, very sad time for you, shocking news right enough!

  318. louis.b.argyll says:

    Sorry to hear of your family’s loss, all the best to you Robert.

  319. Robert Peffers says:

    @Nana says: 7 February, 2018 at 7:26 pm:

    “So very sorry for your loss Robert. Words are never enough during times like these. Be sure to take time to grieve and look after yourself xx”

    Thank you, Nana. The most stressful part was that although there were no apparent suspicious circumstances there was also no apparent cause of death. The lad, (he was in mid-fifties), was apparently very fit and healthy and had led a very active life. I informed the police officers, who called to break the news, that he was diagnosed with a heart problem while still in the womb and was taken directly at birth to a specialist baby heart hospital.

    However the condition had apparently cured itself and seemed to be clear. Thing is, in those days, the diagnostic equipment was rather rudimentary and probably nothing more than an x-ray and stethoscope. Anyway, the authorities had to tell us they couldn’t release the body until a post mortem and Coroners Enquiry.

    So everything was on hold as they couldn’t issue a death certificate and after the post mortem they had to send lots of samples for analysis and, due to the recent flu epidemic there is a very long waiting list.

    In the end they issued a temporary death certificate which allowed us to arrange the funeral but we are left in limbo as to the cause of death.

    Just days before he died he had cycled from Dunfermline to Gleneagles and back to Dunfermline with no apparent problems. I suppose the grieving process can only begin after all the doubts are resolved. At the moment I’m rather numb and cannot really take it all in.

  320. Still Positive says:

    Robert, sorry for your loss. Take good care of yourself.

  321. Scott says:

    Here is another one.

    Sarah Smith 07/02/2018 speaking about Police Scotland and using the M9 story gets it wrong again.

    There was no 999 call made in the M9 tragedy

    When will this person get her facts right will she correct herself again on twitter

    I am sorry for these families so not using them.

  322. Ghillie says:

    Thinking of you Robert.

  323. Big Phil says:

    Thoughts are with you Mr Peffers.
    Please stay strong.

  324. Scott says:

    Robert,All on here sorry about your loss.

  325. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Robert Peffers – contributing to WOS at this tragic time – stoic.

    Our independence, to which you are a major contributor, will be what makes your son proud, wherever his soul may be.

    My thoughts are with you.

  326. Legerwood says:

    Dear Mr Peffers,

    I am really sorry to hear about your son.
    Take care

  327. Lochside says:

    Sorry to hear of your tragic Loss Robert. My condolences to you.

  328. louis.b.argyll says:

    Dorothy Devine says 6:41 pm
    ‘STV describing Scotland as a region – what a bunch of tractors.

    Do regions have capital cities?’

    Do regions have their own international sports teams?

    Do regions have independence referenda.

  329. Mary Miles says:

    From Tassie:

    Dear Robert

    So sorry to hear about your son. I like to think there is a reason for everything although it is so hard to see sometimes. Our love and thoughts are with you – you will meet up with your son again.

  330. Bill McLean says:

    Thoughts with you at this sad time Robert.
    Bill M

  331. geeo says:

    Sad news indeed for Robert, awful to bury a child.

    I would love to see a plaque somewhere, post indy, to commemorate those who didn’t see their indy dream realised in time.

  332. Maria F says:

    I am so sorry for your loss Robert. My thoughts are with you at this difficult time.

  333. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert Peffers,

    Thoughts with you mister.

  334. colin alexander says:

    Robert Peffers

    I’m sorry to read of the loss of your son.
    My sincere condolences to you and your family.

  335. twathater says:

    Sorry for long post but relevant to Justice

    Commented on Sunday Politics Scotland on Youtube – 28/01/2018

    All this BBC , tory , liebour , lib dumbs false outrage directed at the SG should be directed at the police commissions decision to bring back the CC when the investigations against him are still ongoing , it is total hypocrisy from these idiots seeking ONLY to undermine the SNP SG .

    If I were one of the people who had submitted a complaint alleging bullying I would be incandescent with rage that the CC had been allowed to return to duty with charges against him unanswered , I would assume that the commission were corrupt and were acting against the public’s and the complainants interest , I would also attempt to encourage a class action against the entire SG as they are not protecting whistleblowers or the Police Scotland staff .

    I would applaud Michael Mathieson”s intervention from a complainants and the public’s point of view but I would also call for an enquiry into the grossly stupid actions of the PCC’S decision. Michael Mathieson has possibly saved the SG and the Scottish public a fortune in legal fees

  336. frogesque says:

    Robert Peffers: So sad. Thoughts are with you, take all the time out you need.

  337. Daisy Walker says:

    Dear Robert,

    Deeply sorry for your loss. Take the very best care of yourself. We’ll watch the shop here for you.

  338. Dorothy Devine says:

    Mr Peffers , how very , very sad and hard , my thoughts are with you.

  339. Graf Midgehunter says:

    @ Robert P

    Many things can tear a life apart but one of the most dreadful is losing a family member.

    My deepest condolences Robert.

  340. Graeme says:

    Sorry to hear of your loss Robert, Don’t know what else to say

  341. twathater says:

    Robert Peffers

    I like everyone on here send my condolences for your loss , our love and thoughts are with you and your family

  342. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Mr Peffers.

    Sorry for your loss.

    Thinking of you and yours at this sad time.

  343. Smallaxe says:

    Mr Peffers,

    May I add my condolences to the others for the tragic and sudden loss of your son. My thoughts are with you at this sad time, sir.

  344. Bobp says:

    Bobp. Sincere condolences Mr peffers.

  345. Macart says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Deepest condolences Robert. So sorry to hear of your loss.

  346. Jock McDonnell says:

    @Robert Peffers
    Sorry to hear of your loss Robert, my condolences to your family.

  347. K1 says:

    Deepest condolences Robert for the sudden loss of your youngest son. So very sorry to hear this news.

  348. Thepnr says:

    Very sorry Robert to have heard your tragic news. Only time can heal your sorrow, take care.

  349. Kangaroo says:

    @ Robert Peffers
    Although I have only recently started posting on here I have been actively reading for years, so I feel like I know you Robert. Your posts have been very informative to many reading on this blog so keep up the good work.

    I am very sorry that you have lost your son. I cannot imagine how hard that must be. So sorry and regards from Oz.

  350. North chiel says:

    @ Robert Peffers . Such sad sad news. My very sincerest condolences to one of
    “ wings” most informative posters.

  351. Rock says:


    “Looks like the EU are getting the message that the UK is not negotiating in good faith.”

    They would have known from Day 1 that the UK was not going to negotiate in good faith.

    Has the UK ever negotiated anything in good faith, either with its own people or with foreigners?

    The UK is and always has been rotten to the core and the Scottish Establishment has been an integral part of this rottenness.

  352. yesindyref2 says:

    Thoughts with you Robert.

  353. Tinto Chiel says:

    Very sorry to hear your sad news, Robert.

    My thoughts are with you.

  354. Marie Clark says:

    I’m so sorry to hear of the loss of your son Robert. Please take care of yourself, and give yourself time to grieve.

  355. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Robert Peffers I’m sorry to hear of your sad loss Robert My thoughts are with You at this time . Take good care of yourself .

  356. sassenach says:

    I had decided not to post btl, due to people ruining the site, but had return to say that my thoughts are with you, Robert Peffers.

    To be able to still contribute, as you did after this event truly shows your dedication to the independence cause. Take care.

  357. Shinty says:

    My sincere condolences for your loss, Robert.

  358. Condolences Robert.

  359. Fillofficer says:

    Robert Peffers
    The saddest of news.
    Hope our thoughts give you strength.

  360. Lucia Daines says:

    My condolences my dear RobertPeffersPaula Rose has asked me to send you her love and her sadness for your loss.

  361. heedtracker says:

    Stench from the Graun high tonight. Its Sturgeon that’s misled everyone says Severin. Its odd what makes tory liggers in Scotland jump though. Must be quite a deal, as Gruan liggers pile in to help the tories.

    Just another UKOK day at the coal face, to keep UKOK rule and get us all to vote against our interests ofcourse.

  362. heedtracker says:

    My condolences too Robert.

  363. Meindevon says:

    Sincere condolences to you and yours Mr Peffers.

  364. Cherry says:

    Mr. Peffers I’m truly sorry to hear of your son’s death. This is the hardest grief to bear. Take good care of yourself at this sad time.

  365. manandboy says:

    Just come onto the blog to read the sad news of the untimely passing of Robert’s youngest son. Please accept my condolences, Robert, and be assured of a place in my thoughts throughout this time of grief and great loss for you.

  366. Fergus Green says:

    Robert my dear friend, so sad to hear your news. We are all with you.

  367. Tatu3 says:

    Very sorry to hear your sad news, Robert

  368. gus1940 says:

    Robert Peffers – so sorry to hear of your tragic loss.

  369. Ian Foulds says:

    Mr. Peffers,

    As with many others, I proffer my condolences.

    Please take your time to grieve.

    We all look forward to reading your interesting and knowledgeable thoughts, when you feel strong enough to return to the fray.


  370. Sarah says:

    Mr Peffers,

    It is typically brave that you have continued to post helpful, informative pieces at such a sad time. I lost my mother just before Christmas and it knocked the stuffing out of me so I couldn’t carry on as normal. You are a brave man.
    Best wishes.

  371. The Proctor Lewis says:

    Mr Peffers
    My condolences Robert, I was sorry to hear your tragic news.
    I hope you find some peace.
    Best wishes.

  372. Clapper57 says:

    Mr Peffers

    So very sorry to hear of your tragic loss.

    Please accept my sincere condolences , like many on this site my thoughts are with you.

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