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Into our own hands

Posted on September 06, 2020 by

The Scottish political focus has been on Holyrood in recent days, with the Programme For Government announced and Westminster returning from recess. But parliaments can only do so much. Extra-parliamentary action is required for many reasons, not least because activists are increasingly frustrated at delays and uncertainty.

Giving direction and something constructive to do is therefore important; and that will have to come from within the grassroots movement.

Time’s short and the work to be done is great. Some preparations are being laid by the Scottish Government and SNP centrally, but a great deal more sadly isn’t. And done it must be, not just to prepare for but to ensure that we win the referendum when it comes. Any assumption that it’s all over bar the declaration is naïve.

Unionists aren’t going to give up without a fight and they’ve learned lessons from the last campaign. Added to that their substantial warchest means that we’ve a titanic battle on our hands. They’ll know key buttons to press and they’ll be hard and ruthless when doing so. So rather than congratulating ourselves on recent polls, work should be getting done. It’s what you reap in good times that sustains you through the bad.

More importantly this time, much more than in 2014, it’ll be the wider independence movement that’ll lead the campaign. The Scottish Government cannot be the issue in a debate on the future governance of Scotland. Similarly, this is not about any political party, but about the Scottish people.

Firstly, steps must be taken bring the numerous Yes groups and independence campaigners together. Steps should be taken to establish a steering group that can co-ordinate and plan. The groups are and will remain autonomous, but a central team is important. Moreover, the leadership of a mass movement should come from within, not be appointed from on high.

Obviously, work will be constrained by social distancing requirements and other measures to tackle COVID-19. Some activities will have to wait for approval by authorities but there’s still plenty that can be commenced long before then. Many groups are still active and meeting online. With others it wouldn’t take much to shake the cobwebs off and get going again.

But more than activities this is about coordination and planning. Preparing the platform to be laid out, the issues to highlight and the rebuttals to make when the campaign proper begins. It’s also about the exchange of information on what works and what doesn’t; as well as pooling resources to ensure that limited funds are maximised.

The ground has changed since 2014 and neither the White Paper or the activist’s preference The Wee Blue Book are up to date. Excellent work has been ongoing by individuals on issues such as currency and debt. Likewise, Common Weal have provided a vision of what can be achieved with the power of independence. But much more needs done, the clock is running down and what’s been offered to date from such as the Growth Commission exposed as entirely inadequate.

Secondly, a Constitutional Convention needs called, which would bring together elected representatives from all tiers of government as well as trade union and civic groups. It should have been called immediately after the December 2019 election when the Tories were returned with a majority in the UK but comprehensively rejected in Scotland. However, it remains essential.

Some parties will decline to attend but individuals from them may well choose to do so. Furthermore, civic groups and in particular trade unions are important and, in that regard, the STUC should be asked to lead.

The trade union movement has moved on since 2014. Many of the leadership are less hostile, recognizing that much of the rank and file now support independence. Many shop stewards are firmly Yes, and the coming Tory attacks on employment will only increase that. Such a Convention allows for support to be galvanized for constitutional change as well as defence of social and economic interests.

Finally, steps must be taken to engage with the Scottish diaspora. There’s a great deal of sympathy for independence amongst many of our emigrant community. They’re a resource that should be utilised. The Tories have shamefully blocked the ability for overseas fundraising, whilst bankrolling themselves though Russian or other foreign funds. However, our absent sons and daughters still have much to contribute through their talents and networks, and besides where there’s a will there’s a way. Reaching out and mobilizing them is essential.

Grassroots actvists must take the lead – no one else is doing so – and preparations must begin. The time for extra-parliamentary action has arrived.

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  1. 06 09 20 14:56

    Into our own hands | speymouth

  2. 07 09 20 00:50

    Into our own hands –

186 to “Into our own hands”

  1. Muscleguy

    But what is this constitutional Commission to do exactly? that is not clear. Does the name suggest the drafting of a Scottish Constitution? If so that would need constitutional scholars & lawyers on hand to advise. Also lets keep the language as plain as is possible, and let us keep it Scottish in language even if it is just Scots legal terms sprinkled through. Some outwiths iinstead of outside kind of thing.

    And what will all this activity achieve other than in moving the polls & giving us fractious activists something to do to stop us bleating & complaining that Sturgeon is being far too cautious along with far too distracted on other matters such as GRA, Hate Bill & notably not ordering the removal of the NEC block on MPs standing for Holyrood?

    None of that will move the logjam along one little bit. No amount of the wider movement coalescing around policies such as the Covid obvious need for our own currency will force to move a muscle on anything. That they have done NOTHING on the currency issue despite the Covid demonstation & much work done by Commonweal & others. The Yoons are still using that as a stick with which to beat us & we have no real comeback. This will operate on the doorsteps as well.

    We will go out with our debate chest half empty. The cannier DK’s & soft Noes will pick up on that leaving us with just hopeful rhetoric in response. That cut no mustard with too many last time. If we mount a campaign full of such lacunae no amount of later policy additions will matter, the format of the debate will have been set to our disadvantage.

    Sadly Kenny either you haven’t though enough about such issues or this is just a case of a more active form of expectations management.

    I am not convinced. Besides the election next May is afoot. Those of us in the ISP are holding online branch meetings. Policy things are afoot. Busy, busy. In the SNP you may have gotten used to no party democracy but we are going to have a lot of it, yipeee!

    I fully expect to be far too busy between now & May & even possibly afterwards to have time for such flim flam.

  2. Mags

    There are quite a few excellent politicians stepping down that could easily fill the roles of co-ordinating the YES movement and have the inside information much needed to convey to voters

  3. Ian McCubbin

    His sentiments are good and valid, but am a bit unsure how he sees YES activists taking the lead. One did in a court case to disprove need for S30 and was vilified. We all know S30 is nonsense a way.
    We have the mandate but current SNP Gov won’t use it. TBH I am done with energy for activism.
    We just need our elected Independence party to do its job or resign.

  4. Thomas Dunlop

    As an expat, I’m ready to help out. We really need a solid plan this time. My experience of living in Finland for 22 years should be helpful. Not only in a social sphere, but also education, science and business. I want an independent Scotland that makes the best of its resources to create a healthy and wealthy society

  5. Al-Stuart


    I do hope you are right.

    In the past few days it has been established that Nicola Sturgeon loves Machiavellian plotting.

    * Her creepy fan girl obsession with the fantasy Borgen television series and its leading actress.
    * The fact that Nicola has already given considerable thought about who will play her character in “Nicola The Movie”.

    A long time ago Stuart Campbell and Wings Over Scotland persuaded many folk that THE obstacle for IndyRef2 and Scottish Independence IS Nicola Sturgeon.

    Ergo the solution to getting our Independence is removing Nicola Strpugeon.

    She is in a win/win position to retain her career, salary and personal prestige just now. It makes a lot of sense for her to put IndyREF2 off for as long as possible.

    Sadly last night whilst discussing who to vote for in next years Holyrood election at least 8 of us LABOUR orphans who LENT our vote to the SNP believe the only way to get rid of Noicola Sturgeon along with her dangerous McWokeist fanatics and the despised GRA and Hate Bills is for the SNP TO HAVE A STINT IN OPPOSITION.

    The thought of that made me feel sick.

    Scottish Labour will remove Ryan Leopard but there is a vast vacuum of leadership potential.

    Kenny, this concluding point is to you, partly in THANKS of your having the good grace in writing on Wings Over Scotland. I know you cannot publicly comment on the Nicola problem. I know you know VAST numbers of SNP MSPs are “retiring” next year and that the take over of Nicola’s brand of Borgenised SNP will be complete.

    So I ask for a signal please: WILL Alex Salmond, Joanna Cherry and decent “normal” SNP leadership such as yourself either get a grip and solve the Nicola problem or PLEASE start a Scottish Independence List Party.


  6. Muscleguy

    And besides, too many of us have bad memories of being marched up the hill after the Brexit vote only to be abandoned when La Sturgeon got cold feet. Her feet have been ice cold over Indy ever since. THAT will not be fixed by this. Too many of your colleagues have taken to sending friendly fire all over the wider Yes movement.

    Sneering at Commonweal, the shameful prosecutions of Mark Hirst & Craig Murray with none of the media hacks who did worse added to the rank, cowardly & obstructive responses the Rev Stu has had when trying to ask perfectly reasonable questions about it.

    The conclusion has to be drawn that the SNP leadership want to destroy the wider Yes movement since they are control freaks who increasingly cannot tolerate anything they can’t control. I fear the malign influence of Woke philosophy at work here. This is what it does. Dissenters cannot be tolerated by it. Heretics must be burned.

    I’m sure you know the sort I mean. They are entryists to your party Kenny. Time to clean the stables out. They will soon have a majority of SNP MSP’s with the corruption stench of the architects of the NEC block rushing for seats. That must be stopped & time is short.

    Independence must be worth wanting. A Woke police state where dissent is criminalised as hate speech is not a country I want to live in. i can see us sliding towards that.

    Eyes on the present dangers & getting out of this septic union before our parliament is gutted so it cannot run a whelk stall let alone an indyref.

  7. Republicofscotland

    Sounds good Kenny, now is the time to convert words into actions.

  8. kapelmeister

    At last, a Scottish politician willing to use the words “extra-parliamentary action”.

  9. Astonished

    What the independence movement needs is leadership.

    Leadership to get rid of the woke careerists for good. The Gender Recognition Act, Yusuf’s hated thought-crime bill and the shambles that is the grooming sex education material for schools ; All must be got rid of, and those responsible dismissed or demoted.

    Leadership to tell the media we will no longer tolerate being lied to. And lying during the referendum will result in fines and possibly jail time.

    Leadership to tell johnston and the tories we’ve had enough. We’re leaving as friends or enemies but we’re leaving.

    What the movement doesn’t need is angus macleod and rhiannon spears.

  10. Willie

    There are a lot of excellent politicians who are standing down, could fill a lot of organisational strategy slots, and who could contribute to a List Independence Party.

    With the SNP securing as many of the 73 constituency seats as they can, a broad church list party could literally hoover up secondary seats.

    And there is no reason why the Scottish Government should demand now of Boris Johnson that an Indy referendum be held on the same day as the election. If he says no, then ipso facto the election result could be the referendum result.

    Time we moved off the back foot and onto the front foot. Our country, our industry, our relationship with Europe is burning and we need to put the fire out and take control.

    Election in May 2021 should be referendum day.

  11. Willie

    “ no reason why a Scottish Government should not demand now “ …that a referendum should be held on the Election Day.

    And there is no reason why we cannot all be planning for this now.Kenny MacAskill’s call to electoral arms is timely. Let’s get the show back on the road.

  12. Douglas

    Thanks Kenny,

    Absolutely spot on.

    WE need to get on with this whatever/despite what the SNP Leadership is doing.

    “ what’s been offered to date from such as the Growth Commission exposed as entirely inadequate.”

    I think you are being too polite. The Growth Commission is worse than inadequate, it points in the wrong direction. By trying to be corporate friendly to the nth degree it fails to tackle the issues that need radical action. It completely fails to inspire by showing opportunities.

  13. kapelmeister

    Amongst themselves I bet the SNP wokeists refer to the Justice Secretary as Humza Yusafelidiot.

  14. Ron Maclean

    After six years of Ms Sturgeon;

    ‘Grassroots actvists must take the lead – no one else is doing so – and preparations must begin.’

    That’s not quite a vote of confidence in your leadership team.

    Who are the grassroots activists? When will they step forward? How will they be
    co-ordinated? How will the leader be chosen? etc

  15. Awizgonny

    A crucial part of any Independence referendum campaign would be to replace policy with contingency. By that I mean instead of having a policy to stay in the EU, for instance, there would be a referendum following Independence on the issue. The same for staying in NATO, nuclear weapons at Faslane and so on.

    A complete rethink on different possibilities of representation would also help – all the regions of Scotland should be assured that they will not be dictated to or ignored by Holyrood as they have been by Westminster. Federalism of some kind should be guaranteed.

    There should also be an assurance by the SNP that in the eventuality of a Yes vote a National government would be declared, bringing all parties to the table.

    And a ban on idiots bleating “No more Tory governments ever”.Thats not only an assault on the principle of democracy but an insult to people’s intelligence.

  16. Michael Cavanagh

    We can learn much from the democracy developing in Venezuela, Bolivia (regardless of the us planned coup/junta). Sectors, neighbourhoods, small businesses etc are all bonding in the interest of their collective interests and are guaranteed a place in the constitutional assembly that sits to respond to constitutional implications of contemporary events.

  17. leither

    some of my best friends are Borgen fans…..

  18. leither

    kapelmeister says:
    Humza Yusafelidiot.

    ha ha ha ha ha….. everyone a gem kapel

  19. lawrenceab

    “A complete rethink on different possibilities of representation would also help – all the regions of Scotland should be assured that they will not be dictated to or ignored by Holyrood as they have been by Westminster. Federalism of some kind should be guaranteed.”
    Awizgonny 2:27pm

    That’s an excellent point. Riddoch also has quite a lot to day about the poor treatment of local councils (and their scarcity compared to in Europe!)

    It’s essential to reassure Orkney & Shetlands that their voice will be heard in an independent Scotland. You can be sure Westminster is weaponising those islands already.

  20. robertknight

    “Grassroots actvists must take the lead – no one else is doing so

    A damning indictment, possibly unintended, of our political “masters” in the Indy camp.

    Begs the question why those who should be leading the charge elect instead to shy away from the whole issue.

    A case of “don’t mention the I-word and maybe it’ll go away”?

    Or would a cry of “We will not sit back and allow Westminster to repeatedly ignore requests for a S30 Order” have the same hollow ring to it as “We will not sit back and allow Scotland to be dragged out of the single market and customs union against its will”?

    Either way it’s a poor show when the supposedly pro-Indy party of Government can’t seem to bring itself to mount and sustain a campaign to achieve its primary goal.

  21. Al-Stuart

    Muscle guy,

    Your point just hit me like a ton of bricks,

    I had HOPED a way would be found where we could achieve Scottish Independence IN SPITE of Nicola Sturgeon.

    If I were in the top ranks of the 77th Brigade/British State and had done my work well, there would be fewer options guaranteed to kill off/neuter Scottish Independence than bringing into Scots Law the Hate Crime Act.

    There can be no doubt that the Hate Crime Bill, after receiving Royal Assent, WILL be used to…

    Prosecute Stuart Campbell

    …and any leading lights in the Scots Indy movement (that strange wee ScotPop guy who takes selfies of his weird looking visog in a “where am I” location quiz will be exempt from prosecution on account of his being self-obsessed zoomer).

    After reading Kenny’s article and the BTL posts that have been made already, it is looking like the least worst option to GET RID OF NICOLA and especially to RID US OF THE ORWELLIAN 1984 MCWOKEIST HATE CRIME BILL.

    That “least-worst option is for the SNP to have a stint in opposition.

    I loathe Ruth Davidson and the rest of her turgid lot. But she was onto something when she united the full spectrum of Unionist voters and boosted her own Conservative party to SECOND place in Holyrood, beating Labour to a feckless third place as part of the Scottish political diaspora. Keir Hardie will be turning in his grave.

    It is a horrible thing to contemplate, but the MASSIVE resources of the British State have infiltrated the SNP and planted enough political IEDs to turn the SNP into what Labour now is.

    Or does anyone here, especially the second class ex-Labour orphans who LENT their vote to the SNP in 2007 doubt the fact that an INCREDIBLY POPULAR political party can become a homeless down-and-out almost overnight.

    On 1st May 1997, New Labour and it’s fake messiah Tony Blair secured a win of political tsunami proportions. That ended well! Aye right. Blair is one of the most despised ex-MPs in history. His legacy is a sick joke of lost opportunity to govern honestly and pass decent legislation. Yes he created Holyrood, but that is a sop to keep Scotland IN the Union. The 77th Brigade et al., are a LOT smarter than anyone gives them credit for.

    I think HM Queen Elizabeth said it best to Tony Blair, and the SAME applies to Nicola Sturgeon. When at the very top of your game and height of your powers… if you fffaaarrrrkkk up, the prolls will chop orff your head misstarr Blhayah

    Politically speaking what happened to Tony Blair WILL happen to Nicola Sturgeon…

    BUT the legacy of Nicola Sturgeon will be 100 times as toxic for her personally when the ENTIRE 45% of the YES movement discover it was Nicola Sturgeon, the Borgen Machiavelli Walter Mitty British State Stooge that cost Scotland its 1 in 500 year chance to break free.

    Kenny, THAT is the scale of what has to be remedied here my friend.

    As for Nicola, she has been found out. Maybe only analysed here on WoS to start with but like Japanese Knotweed, the hollowness and virulence of Sturgeon will soon be known. Her true colors are about to be seen wide and far.

  22. Dan

    @Ron Maclean at 2:27 pm

    I suppose I would be classed as a grassroots activist so I’ll proffer this.
    I along with many acquaintances have together committed massive voluntary efforts in our own ways since 2014, at considerable cost in both monetary terms and personal time.
    Various significant events since 2014 and outwith Scotland’s control gave validity to continuing my efforts as those very real material changes in circumstances afforded us the opportunity to campaign because the UK “status quo” was going to hit Scotland very hard in various ways.
    Highlighting these matters and making the case that Scotland would be a better place if we had full control over our destiny was an easy sell.
    I scoffed up the increasingly bitter carrots the SNP were serving up, as even though I had reservations about them having witnessed internal party machinations, I had a semblance of belief they would have a plan to protect our country and EU citizenship.
    That belief however evaporated in Jan 2020.
    I am not a natural nationalist, I am an anti-corruptionist and I am all but done putting up with lying and scheming politicians of all hues, along with the unthinking that defend them.
    My campaigning efforts interacting with the public that Scotland would be different and better place have been all but dashed by these mad scheming arseholes, because I am now getting everything I had worked for casually thrown back at me by friends and acquaintances.
    It was hard enough to have to constantly highlight Westminster’s pish without having to now deal with the shite coming from those supposedly on oor oan side.
    How the hell did chasing mad shit policies like Self ID and an intent to suppress free speech became more important than protecting our EU citizenship, land reform, and making better use of our considerable resources and how we manage and trade them.

  23. Chris Cook

    Seems to me you’re talking about a cooperative approach, Kenny. I’m a Linlithgow-based member of the Co-operative Party, but not a member of the Labour Party, who left me 23 years ago.

    I take the view that independence has nothing whatever to do with nation states and everything to do with devolving power to the level at which services are delivered. Similarly Cooperation has nothing whatever to do with nation states and everything to do with how services are delivered.

    I have long said, that the exclusive affiliation of the Coop Party to Labour is both anything but cooperative in principle and is long obsolete in practice.

    I see myself as a cooperative independent/ individualist or mutualist and suspect there are many who share my antipathy to policies thrust down my throat, whether by Washington, Brussels, Westminster, Holyrood or even Livingston.

    The Swiss get this: resources and decisions are locally devolved and most Swiss are only vaguely aware who their first minister even is, since they give the role minimal power over them.

    So if my fellow Coop independence campaigners were to join me in the Cooperative Party (the branches of which are not exactly hives of activity) there might be the possibility of a slate of Cooperative Independent candidates in the list next May, with a few new devolved policies- particularly decentralised credit creation – to gee things up.

  24. leither

    some of my best friends are knotweed …….

  25. Peter A Bell

    “…steps must be taken bring the numerous Yes groups and independence campaigners together.”

    Kenny MacAskill correctly identifies the essential first step. A step which should have been taken many months ago. Now, when we desperately need the Yes movement to speak with on voice to demand that the SNP adopt a Manifesto for Independence, we have no effective voice at all.

    But I would advise Kenny MacAskill that he really must NOT speak of a “steering committee” drawn from the Yes movement and a policy platform in virtually the same breath. The Yes movement is massively diverse. There is absolutely no possibility of getting a movement so large and diverse to unite behind any kind of comprehensive policy agenda. To even attempt this would be the utmost folly.

    If we are to make common cause then that cause must be something that is common to every single person who aspires to the restoration of Scotland’s independence. That thing which is the distilled essence of the Yes movement – the imperative to end the Union.

    It is not possible to create an effective single-issue campaign around a disputed concept. Such a campaign would inevitably be diffuse and confused and confusing as different groups promoted their own vision of independence. We know this for a fact because it is precisely what happened in the Yes campaign for the 2014 referendum.

    The Yes movement needs to speak with one voice. Of that there is no doubt. But this will only be possible if that voice speaks solely and exclusively about the matter of ending the Union.

  26. Mags

    googled the Borgen thing, Liz Lloyd sure has been with Nicola Sturgeon a long time, as an aside the actress would be better suited to play Leanne Wood, the character Jacob Kruse is more like Nicola Sturgeon

  27. Breeks

    I like the sound of a Constitutional Convention, but it must be explicitly that… Constitutional.

    It must see it’s fundamental objective as being the defence of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty; a phenomenon which seems as much endangered by the actions of Holyrood as it is Westminster.

    We need to establish an understanding across the whole of Scotland that the 1998 Scotland Act is merely the written constitution [small ‘c’] of Holyrood’s devolved assembly, NOT the de facto Constitution of the Scottish Nation. Holyrood might consider it’s wings clipped by a Section Agreement, but there is no such constraint upon the sovereign people.

    It must be understood that Scotland’s Constitution, the Popular Sovereignty of the people, was not altered in any way, neither by the 2014 Referendum, nor Devolution itself and the Scotland Act.

    A Constitutional Convention fitting that description, (rather than a more general discussion forum), would, I hope, conclude that Scotland should take it’s Constitutional Credentials to the UN, and formally dispute Scotland’s subjugation through Brexit.

    In fact, I would hope that such an initiative would be the primary reason for establishing a Constitutional Convention in the first place… to undertake the defence of Scotland’s sovereign Constitution from Westminster’s Colonial opportunism, since it seems clear the Scottish “Government” is unwilling to do it.

    Time is desperately short if we wish to benefit from the Transition Agreement, which temporarily protects Scotland’s economic activity from the deregulation which is sure to follow, and insure that convergence criteria for a Scottish economy trying to rejoin Europe becomes impractical in the short to medium term. In other words, the ‘brief’ for the new Constitutional Convention should initially be very short and succinct.

  28. leither

    the yes activists who delivered the wee blue book are the same activists who still deliver snp leaflets.

    a wee blue book 2 will need to crowd fund the postie to deliver it.

    that’s if they can take a break from crowd funding legal funds

    oddly enough, I cant see the actual requested total of craig murrays latest round of crowd funding or how much he has raised to date either.

  29. MightyS

    Sounds great, Kenny. Dunno if you’ve ever noticed, but we, the Indy Grassroots, can’t organise a trip to Nando’s without falling out about it.
    Plus, every time someone does use their own initiative, they get copious amounts of vitriolic piss thrown at them by OUR side for doing whatever it is. The guys who protested at the border, Martin Keatings court case, AUOB…

    Therefor, can we body swerve the cringe-fest of fighting over who or what group should be Boss and just have someone step up to the bloody plate and take control?

  30. Charlie

    It was all going so well until you mentioned putting the STUC in charge!
    These people are exactly the kind of careerists that should be no where near any combined steering group. What next have it overseen by the psuedo intellectual Pat Kane FFS!

  31. leither


    correct, the various yes groups are very diverse, they wouldnt agree to someone chosing a leader for them. they dont need one either

  32. iain mhor

    Yeah, ready done that.
    So when’s the referendum again? Just so I can plan a further campaign schedule around it. Can I pencil us in for the end of October? No?
    I don’t have anything else suitable free before December, (when we’re out of the EU and conditions are known) but I could pencil you in for March next year, if that’s any better? No?
    Sometime in 2022 then, or I have all of April through August 2023. Most of 2024 is also free if that suits. I could probably shift a few other things around in 2025 to accommodate – but that might clash with another Holyrood Election – How about 2026?

  33. Muscleguy

    @Al-Stuart 1:54pm
    There is already an Independence List party. of which I am a member. We are holding online Branch meetings (regionally based as per the List) now. Things are apace. Please take a look. We are utterly anti Woke & GRA, up to giving Sturgeon regular kicks up the arse to independence AND the modelling shows we will stop Unionists taking seats by default on the List. There are only Unionist on the List here in the NE. They are ripe for the plucking & the ISP is the means to do that.

  34. Al-Stuart


    I very much like the Borgen television series.

    I am liking your sense of humour very much too 🙂 .

    But Borgen is fiction with a happy ending.

    We (Scotland) are about to be the first country in the Western World who will allow the 1984 Thought Police to start prosecuting folk such as Stuart Campbell, Craig Murray and Alex Salmond.

    I am just hoping the Unionist parties save us from Humsa Wokeist’s madness and bin this dangerous Hate Crime Bill.

    But given my belief the British Empire has its wee paw prints all over this and has, without doubt, infiltrated ALL political parties including the SNP, then Scotland may be about to experience its second guinea pig test trial effort for a dodgy law. The last one being the test of Thatcher’s Poll Tax in Scotland.

    Even the English weren’t daft enough to accept the Poll Tax. Nor are the English so stupid as to accept a HumzaBritPlant’s Hate Crime Act. But we are the Anthrax Nation. Detested by Boris and the English. A country they have colonized and where they can try their Orwellian laws on us first so the legislation can be fine tuned and served up at Westminster as the more palatable (but still 1984 Orwell-light) “Internet Safety Bill 2022”.

    Jeezo, we need A Scottish Independence List Party soon.

  35. holymacmoses

    An article that seeks action – that’s a relief:-)

    The major change for Westminster is that they must realise that it is NOT the SNP asking for a referendum but rather the people of Scotland: that fact changes the goalposts and WM knows it.

    I think much work needs to be updated from 2014 ,but let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Wings Blue Book is a perfect size – I personally would add a few cartoons to it to to make it a ‘fun’ book as well as updating, adding and editing the information. (I’ve always been good at organising work for other people Wings:-))

    Nicola Sturgeon’s party has decided that people don’t want conflict and that’s fair enough but the stasis she has led us to is worse than Joyce’s description of folk in ‘The Dubliners’.
    If we create a fight for the referendum in a ‘Gladitorial’ atmosphere then it is uplifting rather than threatening

    We should make this a time to celebrate and be happy

    My favourite Movie, Gladiator:

    “Quintus: People should know when they’re conquered.
    Gen. Maximus: Would you, Quintus? Would I?”

    With that attitude we shall win the war
    JUST LIKE Mr Salmond.
    I think that Mr Salmond has shown a resilience, self-awareness and sheer courage which should make most of Scotland determined
    to achieve what he has given his whole life to. His work and patience deserves all our efforts to achieve the aim about which he HAS been passionate about for decades

    I don’t think the SNP should take the reigns but rather an Independence Wagonful of the best and brightest of the Independence activists. That sort of choice requires some folk to show humility and some folk to step up to the plate even if they’d prefer not to.
    We start with the air of assuming we shall win – not because we’re arrogant but because we are right. Positivity attracts the right people and we need to garner them from throughout the world – just like Mr McAskill says.

  36. CameronB Brodie

    Not that I disagree, but we would not need extra-parliamentary effort, if our law-makers weren’t of a view that British constitutional practice defines the legal universe. Or a legal framework for justice. Constitutions are supposed to support human flourishing, which requires a respect for inalienable human rights, such as our “Right to Development”.

    Social justice and human
    rights as a framework
    for addressing social
    determinants of health

    Final report of the Task
    group on Equity, Equality
    and Human Rights

    Review of social determinants of health and
    the health divide in the WHO European Region

  37. susanXX

    Good post Awizgonny@2:27. Also agree with Charlie@3:33, the Trade Unions are out of date politically and wokeist, they have no place in modern society.

  38. Tony O'Neill

    I’ve said this for ages if the snp won’t fight for our freedom then they should move aside,and we the people,the yes movement Will do the job ourselves. At the end of the day we the sovereign Scottish people are the real power in Scotland,certainly not the yoons or the fucking snp!!.

  39. Ron Maclean

    @Dan 3::20 pm

    Thank you for the detailed response.

    I would be more than happy to see a country wide loose conglomerate of grassroots activists. I’m sure the local groups could be left pretty much to get on with it. Internal leadership, communication and co-ordination should largely be left to the groups themselves. I don’t want to see the efforts of grassroots activists used solely to improve the lifestyles and profiles of politicians and celebrities.

    How to get them to work in harmony towards the common goal?

  40. livionian

    I understand the principle of the argument, it is definitely the Scottish people that should lead the campaign and we have to show that the argument should be above party politics, the goons will go full SNP bad and personalise their attacks on key Scottish government figures like never before. A genuine grassroots campaign by the Scottish people could be a very effective way round unionist messaging. But I am of the belief that the SNP, at least in its current format and with its current leadership, can not be the solution, cannot be the party to deliver independence and to lead a coherent and decisive campaign. We need a new grassroots, broad church, and radical Independence Party, and we need it soon. It’s the only way.

  41. susanXX

    Why ‘radical’ livionian? Or rather, in what way?

  42. Papko

    As a long term reader and commentator on here (though not a supporter of Independence)

    It seems to me your problem (the Movements problem) is that not enough is getting done to do what you do best (or perceive yourselves to do best) i.e. campaign for Independence.

    It strikes me your situation is analogous to a an Army full of young bloods clamoring for battle, yet your very cautious General is unwilling to commit to one, indeed unwilling to mobilize.
    Perhaps she sees something that we cant, perhaps she knows all too well that to offer battle and lose will be catastrophic.
    So she must somehow keep the activists on board and keep her army battle ready, yet equally fight off the boredom of boredom that all troops feel when they are “not doing their job”.

    The only reason there has not been an Indyref2 is because Sturgeon believes she cant win it. There has been no favorable opportunity at any time since 2014.

    In that sense Macaskill is right the Movement has no war to fight so its best to go on a lengthy exercise (like a real Army would do) to keep the troops fit, occupied and battle-ready.

    Whether she can keep the idealists on board remains to be seen, its a hard job, idealists are not renowned for their tenacity, tolerance of boredom least of all.

  43. Ian Brotherhood

    Where was that picture taken? (The one near the start of the post)

    Looks like Kelvingrove Park but can’t place which part…or maybe Edinburgh?

  44. Gerry Parker

    Brexit is not stopping because of the Corona virus, UK Civil Servants are working on Brexit.
    Scottish Government Civil Servants ( I know ?) should be being tasked with having structures in place that could be implemented on day one of Scottish Independence. DVLA and Passports are examples. Fuel Duty and excise duty are funnelled to Westminster for car tax, car insurance tax, VAT on The fuel they use, vat on the MOT test they need. All this on many vehicles that never leave Scotland. There are alternative systems, are they being investigated by either government or think tanks? With transport being devolved there is no reason why Scotland should not devise its own system and implement it here. Unionists couldn’t really complain we weren’t using the powers we have. The system devised would reflect vehicle use here and could be used to encourage new technology. The sums These items generate would be Immediately available to the Scottish Exchequer which I hope is ready and waiting to go on day one of independence. Likewise passport office for Scottish citizens. A central bank, Diplomatic services? Foreign policy?are the plans and systems needed there or will it be the case that on the day of independence we will enter a period where all these will need to be created anew or wrested from Westminster’s grasp over a decade or so? We can see how they are negotiating Brexit, they will not be willing to give up these things in the spirit of co-operation.

  45. Helen Yates

    I couldn’t agree more Kenny, we’ve all been sitting back waiting for someone to do something to get the ball rolling, unless we activate ourselves we’ll still be sitting waiting for something to happen 5 yrs from now.

  46. Andy Ellis

    What’s the timescale for this new Constitutional Panjandrum though Kenny? I can’t see the fissiparous Yes movement miraculously coming together, whether in some form of new Convention, or as a grass-roots driven from the the bottom up kind of insurgency in any reasonable timescale.

    If yours is essentially a call to start preparing now for the inevitable disappointment of zero practical results coming from an SNP victory at Holyrood 2021, then fair enough.

    What then is the aim and practicable timescale?

    How do we ensure that #indyref2 happens?

    What actions can we take or that if that is stymied by continued unionist refusal?

    What is a Plan B which will reach the same goal?

    I’m hearing a lot of “lets all pull together and change things”, but very little in the way of practical plans and targets for success. Like many others I’m less interested in joining another talking shop which might conceivable build a majority for indy at some indeterminate future date.

    I want concrete action. I want it now. I want a campaign for independence which, even if it can’t guarantee success, at least guarantees us a vote this decade.

  47. Effijy

    Lord Snooty Mogg advising that filling the pockets of
    Tory supporters and none existent companies in tiimes
    Of emergency shows how great Westminster is?

    Maybe it make more sense In Latin when he explains to the servants?

  48. livionian

    Susan xx I didn’t mean radical in the sense of economics or social issues per se, more a group that would push more aggressively for independence, be brave enough to fight in court, rather than the frustrating gradualism of the current SNP. I didn’t mean radical in an extremist sense and could probably have used a better term. The last thing we need are more far left Indy parties

  49. Sarah

    Totally agree: we must not wait to be lead by politicians.

    So we do need a Citizens Convention comprising all elected officials plus others to produce a Covenant or some such to prove that a majority wants Scotland restored as a fully independent nation state.

    It needs to act now – the UK is out of control and is too dangerous to stay in a moment longer.

    We do not need a referendum first. Craig Murray has explained numerous times [see his January blogs] that over 90% of independence declarations since WW2 did not depend on a referendum.

    And we certainly don’t need a s30 agreement to hold a referendum. The SNP leader calling a s30 agreement the “gold standard” is far worse than Alex Salmond using the commonly used phrase “it’s a once in a generation opportunity”. A s30 merely makes subsequent negotiations slightly easier – at least in theory but would any of us believe the UK system would feel itself bound?

    Of course the Yes movement can combine: it is impossible to have the necessary administrative planning without a combined grouping.

  50. Bob

    The strength of the Yes movement is its diversity that should not be replaced. This close to independence requires the pro-independence political parties to show leadership through the Scottish parliament and its representatives in Westminster.

    It is up to the diverse Yes groups to associate with a focal point leader who he/she can hold the elected Scottish government to account, a move not easily ignored with a backdrop of steadily increasing support for independence and is clearly what Westminster fears the most if the Alex Salmond trial is anything to go by.

    Of course Corporate Uk media and Westminster will continue to cause division but that is always going to be the case as we have, are and continue to be fed doubts. Fighting off such nonsense is what the Yes groups are very good at doing.

  51. Effijy

    I’m in a trade union and have been for a long time but I have little
    Belief in them.

    We have the roasters in Education and the GMB who can’t see further than their red noses.
    They are in it for themselves and happy to take a job few want in order to gain a post beyond
    Their abilities.

    The Cherry on top is for Labour to give them a safe seat somewhere to keep warm that will come
    With a very nice salary and pension.

    When Thatcher trashed the unions, what did Labour re-establish for the unions when they got into power? Absolutely nothing.
    What did the unions threaten Labour with for doing nothing, well nothing.

    The unions allegedly fought Labours Glasgow City Council for a full 10 years trying to get equal pay for female employees.

    Even with unions funding Labour they totally failed the women repeatedly.

    When a new SNP Council was formed they paid out for 10 years of Labours
    Unforgivable mistakes and legal costs.

    I withhold any union payment that could go to Labour as they have become red Tories in it for their
    Own benefit and totally devoid of any meaningful talent.

    Unions still stuck on Labour shows just how pathetic they have become.
    They even claimed a percentage of the equal payout when they achieved nothing.

  52. crazycat

    @ Ian Brotherhood at 4.51

    It’s The Meadows – on my laptop, though possibly not on all devices, this is confirmed by hovering over the image until an address appears.

  53. William Habib Steele

    AWIZGONNY says, “There should also be an assurance by the SNP that in the eventuality of a Yes vote a National government would be declared, bringing all parties to the table.”

    Yes, but only Scottish Parties should be included. The Scottish branches of English parties should have no place.

  54. John Walsh

    We must start conversing now about constitution.

    the SNP believe WM needs to pass a S 30 order PERMITTING Scotland to hold a
    (constitutional referendum) and there is not a cat in hell’s chance of that happening any time in the next 4 years.
    So Nicola Sturgeon adhering to that mantra nullifies a “velvet divorce.” at present.
    WM and the Tories don’t want a velvet divorce. They have started down the NI sectarian road already , listen to the Language DRoss is using now.

    The YES movement need to take each .project fear 2 Lie in seriatim !
    And stop wasting time arguing with people/ bot/ trolls from other nations.

  55. Ian Brotherhood

    @crazycat –



  56. CameronB Brodie

    Mr Rees-Mogg is a shining example of Tory ethos and tradition, but an appalling disgrace to democracy and humanity.

    Accountability, Transparency and the Rule of Law as Drivers for Inclusive Growth and Development

    Background Paper on Accountability, Transparency and the Rule of Law within the Post-2015 Agenda


    The United Nations Millennium Declaration highlights democratic and participatory governance as one of its six fundamental values. More recently, in 2012 the UN General Assembly adopted the resolution 66/102, The Rule of Law at the National and International Levels, reaffirming its commitment to the need for adherence to the principles of the rule of law at all levels.1

    Yet, despite years of well-phrased commitments, we live in a world where a large proportion of the global population lives outside the protection of the law, and in countries that lack sufficiently accountable and transparent political institutions. This reality is especially apparent for the 1.5 billion people living in conflict- and post-conflict countries.

    In 2008, the International Commission on Legal Empowerment of the Poor estimated that as many as four billion people live outside the protection of the law2, meaning that they lack protection of their physical security as well as their property-, labor- and business rights. This translates into an environment of insecurity, vulnerability and fear under which no person can fully prosper. Lack of access to justice and the rule of law is an especially basic and essential problem, because without rule of law, the protection of all other rights is endangered.

    When it comes to political accountability and transparency, the numbers are equally dire. More than every fourth person in the world lacks the ability to hold their government accountable for its performance, and the political institutions of their countries lack the transparency necessary to allow popular scrutiny of government performance.3

    For example, in its most recent Open Budget Index, the International Budget Partnership found that national budgets in 74 of the 94 countries surveyed failed to meet the most basic requirements of accountability and transparency. 40 of the studied countries “[…] release no meaningful budget information.”4 The same survey found that only 7 of the 94 countries included in the study release “extensive budget information”, a figure emphasizing the universal character of the problem.

    In countries where transparency is lacking, political institutions cannot be fully accountable toward each other (“horizontally” accountable), nor toward the citizens and the civil society (“vertically” accountable). This means, in effect, that a large proportion of the global population lives under conditions where they lack basic protection of their human rights, such as freedom from violence and harm, protection of property, legal identity and the full ability to influence institutions, legal reforms and social and economic policy. This is particularly true for women, people living in poverty, minorities, and other marginalized people in many countries. Millions of people continue to live in countries in which measures and institutions to hold the government accountable for its actions are weak or absent altogether.

    This paper argues that the issues of accountability, transparency and rule of law have a natural place in the post-2015 agenda.5 These are essential for people to be able to empower themselves, and to become drivers of development. We know that well-functioning institutions can be a defense against the eruption of, and relapse into, violence and conflict. When institutions are weak, they fail to constructively solve conflicts of interests that are inherent in every society, and these conflicts can then instead turn into violence and war….

  57. David R

    At the last referendum when it was yes supporters that started to organise local events it drew in people from outside the political bubble. They used the same language as they ones that they were trying to convince not the sanitised political speak favoured by our political masters.

    As the campaign progressed and the ‘leadership’ was drawn in from the campaign these same leaders and politicians spent more time attacking their own activists than the crap coming from the opposition. Emails telling you what could and couldn’t be used on stalls, quit the street stalls and go to door knocking etc.

    These same leaders are still attacking anyone that strays from the party line whilst expecting them to drop everything and start the donkey work ready for the privileged boys and girls of the political bubble to take over.

  58. Rev. Stuart Campbell

    “There can be no doubt that the Hate Crime Bill, after receiving Royal Assent, WILL be used to…

    Prosecute Stuart Campbell”

    I’m not a lawyer, but I’m reasonably sure it couldn’t be used against a resident of England.

  59. tartanfever

    PeterABell says ”

    ‘The Yes movement is massively diverse. There is absolutely no possibility of getting a movement so large and diverse to unite behind any kind of comprehensive policy agenda. To even attempt this would be the utmost folly.’

    What, like uniting behind the single policy of Independence ?

    The issue is quite simple really.

    What needs to be avoided, and we failed in before is handling the media. In 2013/14 I personally lost track of the number of times the BBC Scotland news would highlight a claim against Independence made by a new ‘group’, often economic, sometimes defence/military orientated stating Scotland being independent was folly.

    The balancer was always the same, the story finished the newsreader saying ‘an SNP spokesperson said that an Independent Scotland would be able ..(fill in appropriate answer)

    Their argument got 1 or 2 minutes, the SNP reply got 10 seconds.

    That is what lost the Referendum in 2014 and that is what will lose it again. That is what you have to counter, because if you thought it was bad before, then it’s only going to be far worse next time.

    Yes, the polls are in our favour at present, but we won’t have the domination in the social media/grass roots area as we enjoyed before and the Media will be even more resolutely against you.

    It is why you do need a figurehead with a team behind them. Someone you can put out in front of the cameras using reports from Common Weal, Business for Scotland, the Greens etc to put forward our proposals.

    I’ve always said that the SNP needed to ‘pick a fight with the BBC’ in these intervening years and they haven’t. I think it’s a dreadful mistake.

  60. Jan Cowan

    Great to see movement towards independence at last. Thank you, Kenny.

  61. Beaker

    “Grassroots activists must take the lead – no one else is doing so – and preparations must begin. The time for extra-parliamentary action has arrived.”

    In other words, free labour, since the SNP aren’t going to pay for it.

    I’m not apologising for being cynical. The SNP is a large organisation these days with access to funds. They should be leading the way.

  62. Effijy

    Baroness Davidson is a real slippery snake.

    Don’t mention the title in Scotland just keep them in the dark and lie to them.

    She is now telling Scottish Labour to dump their leader because he is English
    and know who and what Scotland’s enemy actually is doesn’t help Westminster.

    The BBC working with her and Westminster by not using her title.
    A Quay of poisonous snakes hissing at all asunder.

    Perhaps Ruthless should take the title Lady Groan and she could sit next to Lady,
    I use the term loosely, Moan in the House of Lords.

    Lady Moan and Groan lording it over the colony pedants.
    A modern day Thelma and Louise driving Scotland off a cliff.


  63. Sarah

    @ Beaker: to me the point is that we, the people, should not sit around meekly waiting to be led. We must drive the action and push the legislators to do what we want i.e freedom from the unfair, ruinous system under the UK.

    The SNP nor any other party is the answer. We are.

  64. Ross

    A broad based “right to decide” platform needs constructed and will probably happen if SNP/ pro indy parties win a majority of votes on a manifesto commitment for indyref2.
    Should that be denied, the next holyrood election becomes a defacto independence vote.

    If indy is for the long term and the union is in terminal decline, the next holyrood vote shouldn’t be anything to fear. It gives time to build the case , build the majority and work on international recognition. The “right to decide” platform will be crucial.

    It all hinges on being able to demonstrate a majorty clearly want another vote to the international community. We can call a vote tomorrow but it’d better to build up to one that will be given legitimacy by the international community.

  65. Contrary

    @ Beaker,

    I have to say, I was thinking,,, well, didn’t we vote for our pro-Indy representatives to do just that, and more, and aren’t they paid handsomely to do so – to organise all these things at least. All the half-hearted vague things they’ve instituted so far seem to have fallen flat.

    A suggestion to do more of the same, but do it off our own bats, doesn’t particularly inspire. And, really, if our representative do not have the time to get on and organise and lead these initiatives – which is what they should be best placed to do – would it not be best for them to lose their jobs, and invest their time in something more worthwhile? They could be grassroots too and get mucking in. If it’s the grassroots that are going to carry the day – lets get the ones that claim leadership skills on board, it’ll be a win win, and it’ll make for a faster transition, because no one wants a Holyrood with Labour in charge.

    All my thoughts seem to be cynical these days,,,

  66. pipinghot

    Fine words Kenny, but you need to bring your party to heel. Word from my Son and many of his YES supporting pals (mid 20’s) is that they have not the stomach to vote SNP in May. I have voted SNP since I had the right to vote but will not be doing so unless there is a significant change. We can all smell the shite Nicola.

  67. Scot Finlayson

    A truce between all the various Scottish independence factions would be a good starting point,

    not just grassroots but including SNP politicians keeping their attacks for the unionists,

    the truce does not include those woke self absorbed cuckoos that have infiltrated the independence movement to enable misogyny and worse evils through the GRA reform bill,

    these need sorted out as a matter of urgency before they become a too powerful to be ejected.

  68. Daisy Walker

    Andy Ellis at 5.07 says

    ‘What then is the aim and practicable timescale?

    How do we ensure that #indyref2 happens?

    What actions can we take or that if that is stymied by continued unionist refusal?

    What is a Plan B which will reach the same goal?

    I’m hearing a lot of “lets all pull together and change things”, but very little in the way of practical plans and targets for success. Like many others I’m less interested in joining another talking shop which might conceivable build a majority for indy at some indeterminate future date.

    I want concrete action. I want it now. I want a campaign for independence which, even if it can’t guarantee success, at least guarantees us a vote this decade.’


    Andy, here’s the practical plan and timescale

    We start to campaign now, we get Indy support over 60% before years end (target 1).

    We utilise leaflet drops, and info posters, home made billboards (every car’s a billboard) and one to one conversations in work places and wherever its appropriate and safe re Covid.

    Once polls are over 60% for Indy – NS cannot use the phrase Scotland isn’t ready, or ‘we mustn’t have an Indy Ref until we know we can win’. 60% was her bench mark.

    In the process of the above – which is needing to be done in any event – then we pressure the SNP for the S30 to be asked and replied to before the end of February. And we keep campaigning.

    In the process of doing the above we will identify local hero’s to vote for if the SNP cannot or will not step up to the plate. (and since Indy Ref 1 brought numerous candidates to the fore, who went on to get elected in 2015 no-one can seriously say it won’t work).

    We set up a fund raiser – and hold the money in account. The SNP want it, they get it when and only when, they deliver on the S30 result and subsequent HE plebiscite manifesto.

    The SNP miss the deadline – the money is used for Independent/Independent candidates to stand for election – who have signed a loose Alliance for Indy with the above manifesto at heart.

    Westminster will say no to a s30. Especially if polls are over 60%.

    Holyrood Election becomes a plebiscite vote for Indy.

    The campaign theme, phrase, meme –


    Number one and number 2 factual points –


    We borrow a leaf out of Project Fear – 2 parts negative, one part positive.

    This is no longer about winning Scotland. Its about saving it.

    If anyone asks about Brexit we say ‘now is not the time, after Covid, it is too big a disruption to our economy and Boris does not have our interests at heart – he’s selling our NHS to Donald.

    You will have your own info and points to put over – just like you did in ’14. The info is there now, we don’t have to scrape about for it like we did before… and our neighbours are now willing to listen. They are worried.

    Be brave folks. We said last time out ‘yes we can’. Now we have to prove it.

  69. Tannadice Boy

    I commented on that before. The long arm of the law won’t reach you. However the rest of us are not so lucky. And then there is the everyday market manipulation.. take the housing market. A scandal unreported. Well you could present a file of cases and the MSM still wouldn’t report it. My advice get at least 2 independent valuations if you are selling.

  70. Daisy Walker

    @ John Walsh says:
    ‘6 September, 2020 at 6:01 pm
    We must start conversing now about constitution.

    the SNP believe WM needs to pass a S 30 order PERMITTING Scotland to hold a
    (constitutional referendum) and there is not a cat in hell’s chance of that happening any time in the next 4 years.
    So Nicola Sturgeon adhering to that mantra nullifies a “velvet divorce.” at present.
    WM and the Tories don’t want a velvet divorce. They have started down the NI sectarian road already , listen to the Language DRoss is using now.

    The YES movement need to take each .project fear 2 Lie in seriatim !
    And stop wasting time arguing with people/ bot/ trolls from other nations.’

    Hello John

    The Constitution has never gone away in the public’s mind with regards Indy. Whether it is to the extent of wanting a written constitution, etc is a different thing, and honestly I don’t think we have time to sell that idea just now.
    I think you are right when you say WM will never grant a S30 order – so lets force them to refuse it in the lead up to a HE and use the HE as back up.

    With regards the NI Sectarian route being promoted by WM – I don’t underestimate this in any way, its too serious, but WM has 2 really big problems with that model that it did not have in the 1970’s and 80’s.

    1/ They no longer have sufficient numbers of soldiers to carry that out – and about 15% of them are Scottish.

    2/ Camera phones and Internet access. They cannot keep the lid on the narrative the way they did with NI to the same extent. And the Scots are popular abroad. Internationally there would be a backlash.

  71. John Thomson

    Guys I hope to God that we get our act together before 31st Dec, if we haven’t then we are in the slow lane to nowhere. Nicola Sturgeon is not going to get us our goal as she is being consumed by something or someone bigger than indy. Scotland is now the only country in the world who will not take up arms against its aggressor but rather rely on something so intangible it is meaningless.

  72. Daisy Walker

    Ron Maclean says:
    6 September, 2020 at 2:27 pm
    After six years of Ms Sturgeon;

    ‘Who are the grassroots activists? When will they step forward? How will they be
    co-ordinated? How will the leader be chosen? etc’

    Who are the grassroots activists – eh Ron, that’ll be you and me to begin with.

    When will they step forward? Doing it right now, and in ’14 – I saw them step forward in multiple ways – one in a chicken outfit following Jim Murphy about all day after his ‘egg incident’ another on a bike, playing Darth Vader – ‘bow down to your imperial masters’ and following the red tories up the road, to name but a couple.

    How will the leader be chosen? Well, to be blunt, the IndyRef 1 campaign did not have a leader, it got clear cues from Alex, even more from the WBB, and the rest was up to the likes of you lot out there. Every time a fact, or a great idea, came out that could be used, and spread, every single Yesser leapt on it and spread it like wildfire.

    Now we need to do it again.

  73. Juteman

    You will never have anything like the NI troubles happening in a modern country. It is impossible to communicate securely now. Every call, text, email etc can be intercepted. The only non parliamentary action that can work is to cause maximum disruption to the British State by peaceful means. I would love to take up arms for Scotland, but i cant see how that would succeed these days.

  74. mike cassidy

    Watch this

    And realise that if the Hate Bill becomes law

    You would need parliamentary privilege to be able to say this in Scotland without worrying about a knock on the door

  75. Beaker

    Sarah says:
    6 September, 2020 at 7:22 pm
    “@ Beaker: to me the point is that we, the people, should not sit around meekly waiting to be led. We must drive the action and push the legislators to do what we want i.e freedom from the unfair, ruinous system under the UK.
    The SNP nor any other party is the answer. We are.”

    I’m not disagreeing with you. My point is I do not like an elected politician asking someone else to do their work for them. I don’t care who they are.

    There needs to be a strong organisational element at the core of any movement. The problem is that the current organisation is fractured and weak. There are too many strong personalities trying to lead the charge, rather than swallowing their pride and allowing someone who has the organisation and administrative skills to guide them. That person does not need to be the face of the movement, but needs to have the authority to direct things, or at least have their recommendations taken seriously.

    That includes being able to veto an event where the publicity could be detrimental to the overall aim of the movement. Risk management if you like. For example, Extinction Rebellion is suffering from this. Their latest protest has not been a success. Their spokesperson made a complete hash of explaining their actions.

  76. mike cassidy

    Juteman 8.49

    The authorities can’t even delete the Isis propaganda database

    The data is spread across a decentralised system, rather than a single computer server.
    Anyone can share the content across the web, via servers based at multiple locations.
    And this hampers any effort to take it offline.

  77. Jock McDonnell

    @Daisy Walker – thanks, your posts over the last few days have been a refreshing reminder of how positive the BTL here used to be.

    Always good to hear from Kenny, a voice we can rely on as a true supporter of our national cause.

  78. Tannadice Boy

    Lots of talk about armed struggle on here tonight. Speaking as a Granddad and someone who served in NI. You don’t want that. Lots of people died in NI for nothing. If Ireland becomes unified through peaceful means then so be it. It will be their democratic choice. As I said after the 2014 defeat take people with you. Nobody is listening.

  79. leither

    John Thomson says:
    Scotland is now the only country in the world who will not take up arms against its aggressor

    will you?

  80. Ron Maclean

    @Daisy Walker 8:42pm

    ‘Now we need to do it again.’

    It would be good if we won this time.

  81. Ron Maclean

    2014 was a positive campaign. As we all knew positive campaigns always beat negative campaigns. It turned out that positivity was an excuse for not doing enough.

  82. iain mhor

    So no referendum date then. A concerted plan? A vague direction? Anything at all?
    I can work that into an extra-parliamentary campaign no bother.

    “Say Yes to Independence!”
    ‘Aye ok, say Yes to whom?…”err, fucked if I know”
    “Vote for Independence!” ‘Aye sure, who do I vote for to make that happen then?’…”err, fucked if I know”
    “Vote Yes in the Referendum” ‘Oh aye, are we getting a referendum?…”err, fucked if I know”
    “Support Independence for Scotland!” I already do, noo whits the plan? ..”err – well I was kinda hoping you could tell me, frankly I’ll be fucked if I know”

    It’s a rough draft for an extra-parliamentary campaign, but I think I could maybe wing it a bit.
    Just winging it is ok yeah?
    Maybe lots of other dispirate groups coming together winging it too, that’s gotta be good right, that’ll work, we’re already all singing from the same hymn sheet right – there is a hymn sheet isn’t there?

    Tell me there is a hymn sheet at least – I mean I know you’ve got one – Maybe I could photocopy it and hand it out – pin the proclamation to the Kirk door or something – I can do that, nae bother.

    I mean, obviously it exists. Haha, did fuck all for 6 years – aye sure, good one *wink wink – just starting thinking about what to do now! Hahaha, yer such a ticket, ye should be on stage.
    “Laugh? I near pished masel at his patter – Wait tae ye hear, he says, hpfff he says, hehe… “there wiz nae plan and there never was, we just couldny be fucked! Ony o youse got onythin?”…


    Ach awa and shite.

  83. Daisy Walker

    @ Jock McDonnell says:
    6 September, 2020 at 9:03 pm
    @Daisy Walker – thanks, your posts over the last few days have been a refreshing reminder of how positive the BTL here used to be.

    Thanks very much Jock, hopefully its useful and constructive stuff that people can amend to fit their own hand so to speak.

    And just to clarify re one of my earlier posts – I do not, in any way advocate ‘a call to arms’ such as what happened in NI. I just think that when WM attempts to instigate such a situation – we can afford to be realistic about how much harder it is for them to play that game now, compared to the 70’s and 80’s.

    Anyway, Cactus has a great post over on the music channel – well worth a read, a really good idea. Flags with the word SCOTLAND on them instead of the Saltire. He explains his reasons and his research. Sounds good to me Cactus.

    And here’s an idea for a Poster / Advert –

    We put a blond wig on top of a fridge, UJ shorts on it, recall Cereal Woman’s dilemma in ’14 and cut to today and as she casts her vote, she states the words We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

    Actually we need to book Cereal Woman now.

  84. Robert Graham

    A bit late to the discussion but here goes

    The very first comment ffs give it a rest

    Aw Naw it’s too hard

    Surrender before you have even started away n splash pish at yerself everybody’s wanting something to do something as Stu said if we don’t who will all, ideas welcome , pick something you can do and stick with it , the current SNP couldn’t organise a piss up so bypass them they could very well be the obstacle like tarring the List Party idea akin to the bloody Plague, they don’t want to lose control and they definitely don’t want competition , Who bloody well cares what they want

  85. McDuff

    I`m sorry I don’t get this.
    The grass roots were brilliant in `14 and are twitching to get going again but they have an SNP leadership that might as well be in a coma for all the interest they have shown. Where have you been Kenny.
    When the SNP are on tv and have a chance to highlight the injustices and lack of democracy for Scots
    within the union their monotone responses and absolute lack of passion are glaringly apparent.
    The grassroots are primed and ready but unfortunately the SNP leadership have shown they are not remotely interested in independence.

  86. CameronB Brodie

    Claire Chandler certainly didn’t miss. There are very good reasons why “best practice” in policy design, follows a gender-critical approach to culture and the law.

    The Influence of Freedom of Speech on Tort Law: Where to Draw the Line?


    The Constitutions of both Canada and the United States protect the freedom speech. Similarly, the common law in both countries allows for the recovery of damages, under certain conditions, for the utterance of harmful speech. The judiciary is tasked with the difficult assignment of determining the appropriate line to draw between competing interests and rights; put differently, the courts are responsible for determining what speech is protected and what speech is not. This task should be based on an honest assessment of underlying societal values in order to place the appropriate emphasis on the various competing rights.

    This paper will briefly examine theoretical rationales behind rights in general, along with an overview of the purposes of protecting free speech. While focusing on the development of the common law in Canada, a comparative analysis with the United States will be undertaken in order to shed light on alternative jurisprudential directions.

    The state action doctrine will be discussed in both the American and Canadian contexts, followed by an examination of the constitutional constraints placed on the tort of defamation in the United States and Canada. Finally, the evolving limitations for recovery of damages in actions of intentional infliction of emotional distress will be examined in the American context in order to reveal the possible consequences of a more absolutist position on the freedom of speech.

    Freedom of Speech, Tort Law, Defamation, Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress, Snyder v. Phelps

  87. Daisy Walker

    @Ron Maclean says:
    6 September, 2020 at 9:16 pm
    @Daisy Walker 8:42pm

    ‘Now we need to do it again.’

    It would be good if we won this time.’

    It is ESSENTIAL that we win this time. Big difference.

    Ron Maclean says:
    6 September, 2020 at 9:20 pm
    2014 was a positive campaign. As we all knew positive campaigns always beat negative campaigns. It turned out that positivity was an excuse for not doing enough.’

    I don’t think that is true, I don’t think any of what we did in ’14 was wasted, I think it provides the foundation for today and allows for our very own ‘project fear’ to be utilised now. And goodness knows the negatives are not an exaggeration.

    I’m advocating actions that are simple, doable, achievable, measurable and absolutely necessary to save our country.

    And each and every one of us, regardless of our view of NS does not really have an excuse for not getting on with it.

    Tomorrow –

    print off and put a poster in your window,

    look out your WBB (tough if it needs updated, it’ll do the noo) go online to Business For Scotland and get Scotland the Brief. Give it to a former No Voter.

    Tell people – They are away to lose their NHS, and their Parliament.

    And if all of that is too much for you just now, pick one and do it.

    We have a country to SAVE. And We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

    Next time WM fucks up, and its on the news and your in the Chippie, or at the bus stop, or at work – Here’s the off the cuff remark that hits home…

    ‘Aye, Best of Boris isn’t it. Where’s the Better Together bit again.’

    Britain is Boris, Boris is Britain – we personalise it at every turn.

    And we get Yes over the 60% in before year’s end. It’s what NS said she wanted after all, and it needs doing.

  88. Lizg

    Daisey Walker @ 8.42
    Absolutely it’s us Daisey and I’m not all that sure that the Yes movement do need a Leader or Leaders either.
    I think that we can’t be pigeonholed is potentially one of our greatest strengths.
    The British can’t tell where to concentrate their resources or which individuals to target .It’s the organised that can be countered and disrupted in their activities but, all the local groups as you say, can inspire all the others in the most unexpected ways before the British are halfway through a planning meeting about countering the activities from the week before :-).

    Juteman @ 8.49
    “Love to take up arms for Scotland “??? That’s disturbing man… and so last century.
    There’s been enough Scottish blood spilled because of this accursed Union,not one drop more as far as I’m concerned.
    It would be so unnecessary any way.
    Because just as you point out this is a modern Country and that modernity works both ways.
    Scotland if it became necessary can be made ungovernable very easily because of the set up of modern Scotland without any arms or violence at all.
    It just takes a bit of thinking about and deciding which buttons of the British state to Push and when.
    Don’t be forgetting the British know violence and they are good at it….we should not play on their turf and hand them such an advantage .

  89. CameronB Brodie

    It is only Westminster’s medieval approach to the law that sustains Britain as a nation, as contemporary British constitutional practice lacks a sense of legal “proportionality”. It is disappointing to note that the Scottish government follows the same approach to the law.

    U.S. Constitution Annotated Amendment I.

    Adoption and the Common Law Background

  90. CameronB Brodie

    The Law Advocate appears to be feeding the Justice Minister with shite legal advice, and the poor lad is out of his depth. Sex classes describe our appropriate social categorization, without which it is impossible to achieve justice and legal equality.

    Free Speech and Generally Applicable Laws: A New Doctrinal Synthesis

  91. CameronB Brodie

    sorry….Lord Advocate.

  92. Tannadice Boy

    No response to the housing scandal. No comment on the market manipulation. You will get the Government you deserve but at some point it will affect you. I have never been so disillusioned with the SNP. You will guys will get it later. Too late for lots of mainly older families. Wake up and observe. I am of course a raving troll Yoon. 77th brigade I had to look that one up on google. I had no idea about them. Nonsense long term Indy supporter. Any other disparaging term welcome. Keep going Stu you are up against it!

  93. Daisy Walker

    @ Iain Mohr

    Tell me there is a hymn sheet at least – I mean I know you’ve got one – Maybe I could photocopy it and hand it out – pin the proclamation to the Kirk door or something – I can do that, nae bother.

    Hello Iain,

    Here’s the Hymn sheet:

    Taget 1 – we campaign now, and get yes over the 60% mark before years end.

    We stop waiting to be led and, we get on with campaigning, because we are the best and most qualified people to do so, and even if we were being led to do so, it would still be us that had to do it.

    We increase our chances of winning if we start now.

    The verses on the Hymn sheet are as follows:

    We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris

    Believe In Scotland

    Believe In You.

    We go for our own version of Project Fear – 2 part negative – one part positive.

    Facts to hammer home in the next 2 months – They are selling our NHS to Donald. Clapping is no longer enough folks – you’ll have to vote for Indy to save it.

    They are about to decommission our Devolved Parliament – this one is important – Devo Max was way ahead in all the private polls back in ’13. There are a great many people in Scotland who were not for Indy, but definitely don’t want to lose Holyrood.

    We personalise Boris. Boris is Britain, Britain is Boris. And Boris goes down like cold sick in Scotland.

    And We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

    Better Together? We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

    Best of British – Best of Boris more like.

    That’s stage 1 for now.

    Stage 2 is between January and February. We fund raise and identify potential Indy candidates for an Indy Mandate proxy vote. If the SNP (with 60% for yes in the polls) don’t request a S30 order and ensure they receive the answer by end of Feb or else they turn HE into a proxy Indy vote- that fund raising money goes to for the Newby Candidates to stand for Holyrood on a proxy mandate for Indy.

    So Iain, starting tomorrow, put up one little poster, go on, go on, go on go on. You know you want to. I’ll put one up also. And that’s how it starts.

  94. Juteman

    I didn’t mean take up arms against innocent people, but it would be nice to see a few particular buildings demolished.
    Only kidding!
    It’s just frustration on my part. I see no signs from our leaders that they share my hatred of the position Scotland is in. I think I understand what drove the Easter rising volounteers though, as they realised their own blood had to be sacrificed to wake their people up.

  95. Fireproofjim

    Anyone talking about “armed struggle” in Scotland, even in a hypothetical manner is a dangerous fool who is doing absolutely nothing for our Independence and is probably a mouthpiece of our opponents.

  96. Jimmock

    A number of people on here talking of armed struggle. This is truly stupid talk. Armed struggle is exactly what Westminster would love. Scotland would be classed with Palestinians, ISIS, Red brigade IRA, etc, giving Westminster the high ground of international support. So don’t be so stupid. The way forward is the peaceful but clever way. Election 2021 becomes the independence election as Westminster refuses s30. This wins international sympathy. SNP says “if you want independence you must vote for us. If you don’t want independence vote for somebody else. Result tells us what likely referendum result would be. 55% SNP scotgov offers Westminster VELVET DIVORCE. No blame no shame honourable way out for all. Scotland / England remain friends.

  97. Daisy Walker

    @ Beaker

    ‘My point is I do not like an elected politician asking someone else to do their work for them. I don’t care who they are.

    There needs to be a strong organisational element at the core of any movement. The problem is that the current organisation is fractured and weak.’

    The work of the grass roots movement belongs to the grass roots movement – they are the only ones who own that ‘work’.

    ‘there needs to be a strong organisational element at the core of any movement’

    No – there need to be some very clear messages to deliver and a clear objective (independence), and it is helpful if there are updates as you go along to ‘fine tune it, or emphasise different subjects at the same time, but core ‘management’ is not needed and makes it easy for the British Establishment to infiltrate and sabotage.

    Look at the actual ground that needs to be covered, and how we can do it.

    First we need Yes over 60%, and we need that before years end. Think of it as like a Country wide Christmas Present

    How do we do that. Posters, bumper stickers, off the cuff remarks in public, and all the things you did and saw in IndyREf1 – amended for Covid.

    And we filter – if its a good idea we use it. If its a bad one, an unwise one, or one that we disagree on, as individuals we don’t join in with it. We are not sheep.

    And we have common ground – We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

    That’s me for tonight folks, or I might start repeating myself.

    Cheerie the noo.

  98. Stu hutch

    At the moment we have.
    Tim rideout/andy anderson (currency)
    Dr Elliot bulmar(constitution) Gordon macintyre Kemp(business scotland)jim fairly( farming/fishing)stuart cosgrove(broadcasting) ruth watson(food/drink)common weal.13 ex msps with vast experience.all we need is the people mentioned to zoom together write down what they think is the way forward add a few indy bloggers to send the message to the rest of the yes sure others and some involved know more people that could bring something to the table.just need the will to do it..

  99. CameronB Brodie

    The Scottish government’s failure to defend the rule-of-law from unconstitutional majoritarian legal practice, certainly brings Scotland’s cultural conflict closer to violence.

    Journal of European Tort Law | Volume 9: Issue 1
    Understanding Tort Law by the Kantian Moral Principle of Human Freedom

  100. Col.Blimp IV

    Daisy Walker at 8:42pm makes a lot of pertinent points and numerous others identify the SNP’s Wokerati and one-world globalists as both impediments to attaining independence and would-be architects of a Scotland no sane person would wish to live in.

    Our enemy is small in number but well organised, occupies key positions in the SNP hierarchy and unlike the independence movement which is huge but has little influence in the SNP, has not been in stasis for the past five months.

    The next SNP conference and candidate selection for the Holyrood elections present us with, the only two opportunities we will get between now and the Election it’s self, to “fix” the SNP.

    If we are forced settle for a “hostile” List Party vote, and the stronger the Wokies hand is – the more that hostility can be guaranteed … We risk leaving an open goal of disunity for the Unionists to exploit in the run up to Indyref2.

    The ultimate irony being, having to live in the Dystopian nightmare, that these nutcases are sure to establish if they ever get their hands on real power, and knowing that you played your part in it’s creation.


    We could also be doing with a WHITE LIST and their is no shortage of activists in the SNP’s branches who would distribute such lists if they could be confident of their fidelity.

  101. Jimmock

    Daisy Walker, I have prepared 5 leaflets so far that talk up Scotland NHS, EDUCATION, SPACE INDUSTRY, HOUSING, CHILDRENS HEALTH. I have lots of other ideas. Was ready to get these printed when I got locked down. We have to campaign not complain. I have my reservations about the commitment of some in the leadership. This is not new. I have been a member since 1964 and there is always an appearance of a gap between the leadership and the activists.

  102. Stan Broadwood

    Daisy Walker

    Are you fuckin stupid or what,???

    We have been marching up and down hills for 8 fuckin years Campaigning for Independence, and for what???

    So Sturgeon can live the life of a queen???

    I am walking no more.

    All we are doing is encouraging voters to vote SNP at the next Holyrood election, which leads to Sturgeon getting another 5 years to sit on her arse.

    The Murrell’s are not interested in Independence, and until we have concrete evidence that indyRef2 is imminent, I will not be campaigning.

  103. Stan Broadwood

    The only reason the Polls are moving upwards in favour of Independence is because of that dildo Boris Johnson and his Brexit balls up.

    It has absolutely nothing to do with Sturgeon, the SNP or anyone connected to them.

    It is purely down to Boris and Brexit.

  104. CameronB Brodie

    Please stop calling the clique woke. I’m woke, they’re victims of ignorance and legal parochialism. This parochialism is in relation to international law, and a parochialism between policy fields and legal interests. Somebody get the Justice Minister a proper skooling. Please.

    Ohio State Public Law Working Paper No. 448 42 Pages Posted: 18 Jun 2018
    Feminist Legal Theory and Tort Law

  105. Tannadice Boy

    So I have to try again. Look up Sturgeons register of interests. You will find nothing there. Some Mickey Mouse 250 dinner. Since the change in leglisation on property purchases. How many house purchases by her or the SNP?. You can take a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink. You will get there eventually.

  106. Polly

    @ Jimmock

    ‘A number of people on here talking of armed struggle. This is truly stupid talk. Armed struggle is exactly what Westminster would love. ’

    I absolutely agree with you. The very last thing the independent movement needs and the one thing which will alienate supporters both in Scotland and within EU and the wider world. Westminster would crack down and be seen as in the right. That’s not ever the way forward.

    However your idea of plebiscite election requires the SNP to actually do that and since every election since Sturgeon took over has been about anything but independence I doubt whether they’ll declare anything of the sort this time either. Kenny’s article isn’t great either, since it seems he’s also lost faith in movement from the party and relies on every one of us instead. Not a great situation since what members, activists or voters can do is still limited and so much needs to be accomplished by the party. I am not hopeful given past performance.

  107. Tam the Bam

    Campbell…..I have shellled many a buck when you were ‘in full flight for the cause.’

    No longer….you will not extract a pence from me….lord alone knows what has happened.You do realise…you’re going to lose this call right?

  108. robbo

    Stan Broadwood.

    Just for you. I joined the SNP today.

    Name Stanley Broadwood membership no is 666.

    Only a £1 a month. Thought it was ok.

  109. iain mhor

    Aye well, I can keep doing what I’ve ways been doing, except this time the question I keep getting is “Oh aye and how is that going to happen?”

    See pre 2014 it was all new to people, they’re just that wee bit more clued up now eh. The answer to that question back then was of course – ‘Merely Vote Yes in the Referendum. Today the answer is ‘Fucked if I know’

    Back then until that point, it was three decades of holding the conversation. “Sounds good, how do I get Independence then?” Vote SNP until they get a majority and mandate to deliver Independence. “OK done, now what”?
    Vote Yes in the Referendum, OK done that, now what?
    Vote SNP til they get a majority to deliver Independence again – Ok done that now what?
    Vote SNP til they get a majority and mandate to deliver independence – ok done that now what?
    Vote SNP until they get a mandate….Done, now what?
    Vote SNP until…Done, now what…
    Vote SNP, Done…
    Vote, Done….
    Can I help ye?
    Aye would ye be interested in Voting again to get independence.
    Mate, I’ve got a gairden to be getting on wi eh?

    Now what I really could be doing with is a NEW answer about how Independence will happen. So in the stunning absence of one, from any independence supporting politician at all, of any party – I’ll make something bizarre up, I’ll wing it. Because that’s good enough nowadays.

    “Ye take wan o they wee plastic counters ye get at the supermarket and write yer name on it and put it in this envelope I’ll gie ye and then ye post it to the Queen – When she gets 2.5 million wee counters, she has tae gie us independence.
    Then she pulls a counter oot the hat and whoever it is, gets to be King or Queen of Scots for a year and live at Balmoral. Then she pulls anither one oot and ye could be First Minister and the third wan she pulls oot, is tae win a Tesco hamper and the Lord Advocate delivers it personally on horseback.

    “Aye right, that has as much chance of happening as us getting a referendum mate, but I like yer style, gies an envelope”

  110. Famous15

    This article exposes in its full nakedness the agents of British Nationalism.

    Independence is normal but anti democracy is vile!

  111. CameronB Brodie

    Tort law is the area of Anglo-Saxon law which deals with legal wrongs. In Scots law, the same legal function is articulated through the law of “Delict”.

    Property disputes in Scotland (delictual and statutory)

  112. James Che.

    Breeks Is isp standing list party in Aberdeenshire.

  113. Col.Blimp IV

    iain mhor

    Dinnae mock thae wee counters ye get at Tesco … They work just fine instead of £1 coins in supermarket trolleys.

    We might have tae use them as currency, seeing as The English areny goanie let us use Sterling and the SNP are dragging their heels about finding an alternative.

  114. leither

    Tam the Bam says:
    You do realise…you’re going to lose this call right?

    frankenstein’s monster was destroyed by his creator……..

  115. CameronB Brodie

    The law of “Delict” is compatible with “Natural Law” and “natural rights”, which Brexit rejects TOTALLY. British constitutionalism is now no longer a cultural dialogue which enables each nation’s culture to grow, it is now a monologue of right-wing, populist, English nationalism. Or in other words, a totalitarian English despotism.

    Scots have economic, social and cultural rights, even if our government is not prepared to defend them.

    Adam Smith and the Philosophy of Law and Economics pp 83-112
    Adam Smith on Delictual Liability

  116. Dan

    @James Che

    That area is included in the North East Scotland Region so includes as far south as Dundee and that opens up the area and possibility of potential candidates standing for a Pro-Indy Party on the Regional List.
    In 2016 SNP won 9 out of the 10 Constituency seats on the 1st vote (Conservatives got the remaining one), meaning the 137k SNP 2nd votes got zero list MSPs. But ya ken, “Both Votes SNP” always ya bass coz well, eh, it says so on a yellow pen so it must be true fact, and those are the rules, and you must be a yoon if ya dinny…

    The Greens 15k 2nd votes and got zero list seats.

    Info on the following page.

    BDtt has also calculated numbers for most of the regions over on Quarantine.

    I can think of a couple of good candidates for that area, but one was having none of such unconventional folly when I suggested it to them.

  117. Stan Broadwood


    All we need is for Capella and Cat to appear.

    Then we will have the return of the Fanny Tastic Four.

  118. Lizg

    Juteman @ 10.17
    Glad to see you were just venting 🙂
    At least it prompted the others to speak up and demonstrate that we’re no going to go down that road….. so all in all no a bad thing that ye did

  119. Famous15

    Stan broadbent you are so obvious I do NOT know why you keep trying.

    Independence is normal! Yeah.that’s about all that needs said.

  120. Dan

    Col.Blimp IV say: at 12:00 am

    …The English areny goanie let us use Sterling and the SNP are dragging their heels about finding an alternative.

    Ya what, they’re not allowing us to use Sterling? Where the hell are we gonna get all oor furniture noo…

  121. Famous15

    Just use Sterling to furnish a brief route to a Scottish currency. Plenty of good examples since a whiley back.

    Independence is normal. period.

  122. Stan Broadwood


    Independence sure is normal.

    Not so sure about you though.

  123. Beaker

    Armed struggle?

    Armed with what? Bad language?

    I think some people are only trolling. I seriously hope they are, as anyone even considering any form of violence needs locked away.

  124. Polly

    Stan Broadwood 12:18 am

    You’re not only pretty unsubtle but you’re also really not very observant are you?

  125. Stan Broadwood

    Get that fraud Sturgeon to lead by example.

    Get her to front an Indy Rally through the streets of Edinburgh,,, socially distancing of course.

  126. Stan Broadwood


  127. Ronald Fraser


    Did you really need to get involved.

    All you do is start some kind of tit for tat.

    Which closes down any debate.

    So not the brightest thing to do Polly.

    Think before you post Polly.

  128. Ronald Fraser

    Ian Blackford said “only independence” can protect Scotland’s place in Europe.

    This guy is a chancer.

  129. Polly

    Aw Ronald your friend doesn’t ever debate anything, but nice of you to rush to his defence when you feel he can’t formulate his own debate.

    Good night, sleep well.

  130. Ronald Fraser

    The Baroness doesn’t like getting called a Baroness.

    So I suggest we call her a Baroness a lot more often.

  131. Ronald Fraser

    Yes Polly.

    It was a bit childish of you to get involved in something that had nothing to do with you Polly.

    All you do is take the debate to a whole new level,,,as in ground level.

    Not clever Polly, not clever at all.

    You will hopefully learn from this error of judgement Polly.

  132. CameronB Brodie

    Ronald Fraser
    You’re being a bullying, please stop.

  133. Lizg

    Agreed Cameron…
    Leave Polly alone Ronald and don’t be such a bloody prig

  134. twathater

    Good posts and ideas from Daisy and others but I’m afraid I’m with Iain Mhor on this one, okay we ALL bust our guts to get the message out and convert people to indy and then????? if Sturgeon is NOT listening now and we get even more people to vote SNP all that means is she and her woke cadre have another 5 years to do Sweet Fuck All and we STILL can’t get her out

    I maybe stupid but as far as I’m aware we voted for a political party to get us indy NOT to fuck about with genderwoowoo or to invent new laws to protect genderwoowoos , so hows about we COLLECTIVELY find some way to let ST Nicola KNOW that unless she does what we are paying her to do she will NOT get another 5 years to strut about and do nothing she will be OUT ON HER EAR or is that too radical for SNP gradualists

  135. CameronB Brodie

    “all that means is she and her woke cadre have another 5 years”

    The cadre are far from woke.

    WOMEN: Our Empowerment is Up to Us. #W.O.K.E.

    Hello ladies. Hope you had a pleasant week! W.O.K.E. – Women of Knowledge & Empowerment, created by published author, trainer/coach, and entertainment editor, L. Renee’ Chubb kicks off August 31st! Be sure to check out this inspirational spin off of DemWords, dedicated specifically to women each month, and join the conversation….

  136. Liz g

    Twathater @ 2.39
    I can’t say I disagree and I’m just as angry too.
    But the GRA would have been waved through already if the SNP support and it was the SNP Support hadn’t picked up on it and kicked off .
    They had to backtrack then!
    Which tells me that given enough of a push the SNP will have to shift themselves towards Indy.
    That’s why I say turn the focus of demanding Indy to Holyrood now..
    No very scientific I know but better than doing nothing and can’t hurt?

  137. CameronB Brodie

    Now remember, I’ve not looked at this stuff for almost three decades, yet I appear to be more capable of defending Scotland’s democracy from constitutional abuse, than our law-makers. That’s terrifying.

    Working the Common Law Pure: Developing the
    South African Law of Delict (Torts) in Light of the
    Spirit, Purport and Objects of the South African
    Constitution’s Bill of Rights

  138. Al-Stuart

    Good morning Stuart,

    I didn’t mean to alarm you by indicating the Hate Crime Bill may end up being (mis)used to prosecute you.

    I am not a lawyer, but as was explained to me at Tullianlan Police College, I had to have a rigorous and comprehensive understanding of the law and pass the requisite examinations as my job would include detaining, arresting and being responsible for the imprisonment of citizens for a very long time.

    It is on that basis which I proferred an opinion BTL. Herewith a considered view. Apologies for the thread length. Stu., you have read enough legal texts to know that sometimes we need to put down on paper a thesis that needs longer than modern youths’ attention span of a 140 letter gnat Twitter.

    I suspect neither you, nor I, nor any other person with a fair view of the law would have expected…

    The prosecution of Craig Murray.

    As someone engaged in a professional capacity as a law officer I was appalled in the extreme to witness…

    The prosecution of Alex Salmond.

    Prior to Alex being cautioned and charged, I first warned on this site that the State would mis(use) the Moorov Doctrine and they did just that.

    Stuart, you, I, all of us who communicate via Wings Over Scotland have witnessed breathtakingly appalling acts of gerrymandering. Whether political, ethical, financial or legal.

    There was a sickening inevitability that Alex Salmond would be targeted by the British State and neutered.

    You, along with Alex Salmond, Craig Murray and Joanna Cherry should be very aware that you are taking on one of the most powerful States in the world? How many people are employed at MI5 and GCHQ and SI14 along with the 77th Brigade? We can be reasonably sure they don’t just do a bit of photocopying for work and knitting at lunchtime. Even you would be shocked at how thick and substantial is the file on you held by the powers that be.

    My friend, and I use that term as I will give as much as I have to support your work and your liberty, but you should focus your exceptional forensic abilities on what the fake IndyRef2 ignoring First Minister and her BritNat Humza Yosef are up to.

    The reason I left the police service after several years was disgust at the abuse of the law. There are some genuinely heroic police officers in Police Scotland. I have witnessed the very best of humanity in that job. But I left because of a gut sickening bent sergeant who let his family member off of a drunk driving offence. In training, they took us into the Glasgow Mortuary. Most of the time it was a dead adult, but our class had to witness a dead child on that cold mortuary slab. Bereft of parents. Their young life stole. I had to catch my colleague as she passed out. It ain’t like the films. It is very real. We then met the parents. They were the personification of true braveness. Their son had been killed by a drunk driver. The reason for this “lesson” to our class of new police officers was to cure any lazy view we had about drunk driving not mattering that much. In an awesome display of Karma, seven years later, that corrupt sergeant’s daughter was run over by a vehicle being driven by a drunk driver.

    My point?

    The law is incredibly powerful and when it starts being bent by corrupt people, action must be taken to stop those that are unfit for public office.

    Here on this website, I have seen enough.

    WoS has highlighted our politicians of all colours are bent. Corrupt. Dissemblers. Perverts. Law-breakers. Thieves.

    There are a FEW notable exceptions. Alex Salmond is honourable. So is Joanna Cherry and Craig Murray. Possibly some of the 30% of SNP MSPs leaving Holyrood before May 2021.

    Stuart, the corrupt politicians that are CURRENTLY in office have their claws on the levers of power. They WILL seek to SILENCE YOU. Wings Over Scotland represents probably the second most powerful risk to the British State in respect to the risk of losing Scotland and our vast wealth. Just look at your website metrics? Are they not pretty vast in visitor numbers, backlinks and bounce rate?

    Alex Salmond is still enemy number 1 to the British State. But you are a close-run second. So PLEASE look forensically at every line of the Sturgeon/Yosuf legislation.

    Kenny MacAskill will likely give you some help on that. He did the honourable thing, sustaining a great loss of political capital when he took the decision over Mohammed Al Megrahi. If in doubt, ask Dr Swire.

    But here’s the thing and it is inescapable. Anyone who takes on the British State is in for a big fight. Look at Ghandi.

    As for jail which was placed on the legal menu for Alex Salmond and others who will be dining from the same British Eatery. I can personally and professionally vouch that being given time in the pokey with free room and board; with free meals; free heat and light; nae cooncil tax; nae bills is a LOT more than the majority of impoverished pensioners get. Craig Murray is being put through some of the Hell that Alex Salmond had to endure. Stuart, you cannot make yourself willfully blind on this matter.


    I write these words at 0430am because things keep me awake at night. Usually PTSD from that wretched mortuary, and too many other kids being killed by drunks, fire starters and pedos. The latter infest the McWokeist Brigade as pedos are highly manipulative and hold too many McWokeist traits as any police psychiatric consult., would advise. I have put McWokeists into Barlinnie. The last as a Murdering McWokeists. Which is why you are getting a thesis length post. The law matters and stopping these people is too important to walk by on the other side of the street.

    Other times I worry about my friends.

    Stuart, do me a favour please? Keep your incredibly attuned eyes and brain on both primary and secondary legislation, along with the sneaky Statutory Instruments that go through when Alastair Jack is pointing at a squirrel to distract us.

    IF the Hate Crime Bill is enacted, it will be joined by other legislation such as…

    The Union will persist for long enough after the Hate Crime Act is taken for a test drive. One of the first customers may well be from Bristol and as that fair city will still be in the Union as Edinburgh or Glasgow, he will be competent to bring north of the Border. I don’t recall anyone saying Scottish Independence would be easy. Very few realized just how difficult and dirty it would get.

    We ain’t there by a long shot. A lot of very good minds need to come together. I mean Alex Salmond, Joanna Cherry and Stuart, you cannae help yersel, you are in the mix too. You would be a lesser man if you stayed out of the fight.

    But PLEASE be careful. Those fuckers play dirty.

    Fortunately, you have a LOT of true Independence supporters that have your back.

    Even the long-standing, decent SNP branch members who do not yet know about Sturgeon will likely come around in due course.

    First we really do need to STOP that dangerous piece of 1984 Orwellian legislation that is the Hate Crime Bill. At this stage, that task is MORE important than IndyRef2.

    If the Hate Crime Bill receives Royal Assent, it WILL BE (mis)used to crus dissent.

    If in doubt about whether the Sturgeon-Borgen Government squatting in Bute House are capable of misusing the law, just phone up Alex Salmond or Craig Murray.

    Best wishes, Ally.


    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    6 September, 2020 at 6:16 pm

    “There can be no doubt that the Hate Crime Bill, after receiving Royal Assent, WILL be used to…

    Prosecute Stuart Campbell”

    I’m not a lawyer, but I’m reasonably sure it couldn’t be used against a resident of England.”

  139. brian lucey

    Dominating the news cycle this morning is the revelation that the UK is planning to in effect rip up the brexit withdrawal agreement including the Northern Ireland protocol. This is quite interesting as it is in effect unilaterally reneging on an international treaty….

    leaving aside the question as to why anybody anywhere ever would then ever trust the UK as an interlocutor again, this presumably has significant implications for Scotland.

  140. Robert Louis

    I kind of agree with the overall sentiment of Kenny MacAskill’s piece.

    I think there are many people willing, but they are waiting for a sign, or a hint that indyref IS truthfully coming soon. But of course we do not have that, and due to her repeated lies and procrastination, half the indy movement at least no longer trust NS, or believe a word she says anymore.

    So what can be done? I though one of the most impoirtant aspects of the previous indy campaign was the visible presence from stickers, on windows, on doors, everywhere. Almost every road sign in the highlands had at least one YES sticker in the far corner or on the back (so can be seen by the opposite traffic flow).

    In Wales that is happening now, so why can’t we at least get that kind of thing started. I think it has a hugs impact on the psyche of the population and despite NS trying to keep silent on indy and sweep it under the carpet, it kind of forces the narrative into the open.

    I don’t know how to do it, but could we not have a campaign that starts at least with all indy bloggers groups etc. all starting to fund, make and distribute such stickers. I geuinely think it will push indy into the general public, and really push the agenda forward. It seems to be doing so in Wales.

    Maybe RevSTU could help set a lead with it, in the same way as a wee blue book, or similar. People are chomping at the bit, they just need LEADERSHIP. Without that we will get nowhere. Start simple, with something like this, then build on the interest generated, and literally force the lazy careerist b*ggers in the SNP hierarchy to get on with it.

    As an aside, the leaks over the last 48 hours regarding the attitude of Westminster to treaties and agreements (EU), confirms that the strategy of NS to wait for Boris is woefully out of date and out of touch with reality. These are not normal times, and the government in London is the most corrupt in the western world. The notion that he or his murderous cabal will honour anything, is now quite fanciful. Boris is a liar, as are all his tory chums.

    As I said above, we need LEADERSHIP.

  141. Effijy

    ToryDumb has announced that there will be no checks on goods
    Traded from N Ireland to the Republic of Ireland?

    They don’t mention goods going the other way?
    What happens with goods that will be much less expensive
    in the Republic as they cone tariff free from within the EU or
    another nation has given their products the keenest prices as
    It opened the door to 28 countries and not just 1 arrogant one.

    Will Westminster’s terrorist allies utilise their network to sneak cheap
    goods over to Scotland making them very rich?
    Will this cause further unemployment in Scotland’s shops,
    will companies looking to open new UK outlets consider Scotland
    when the can trade from N Ireland tariff free?

    Equality for all parts of the UK as stated in the treaty of the union has
    Been torn up and replaced with discrimination for those who won’t vote Tory.

    The leader of ToryDumb has also announced that we need to prepare for a No Deal Brexit,
    is this replacing the great deal Brexit promised, so why can he announce what happens in
    Ireland if he has no deal to negotiate there?

    So prepare yourself for another massive surge in unemployment, food shortages and higher
    prices for everything.

    Thanks BBC for headlining Scotland has the worst drug death rate in Europe.
    No mention that stupidly SNP Gov use a different method of accounting that
    makes this the case.

    Scot Gov had requested devolved powers to tackle this issue but ToryDumb
    has refused all requests made as they love stats like this and roll them out
    Regularly, but don’t be dismayed, they will continue to work with Scot Gov
    and reject anything just as soon as they can ask for it.

    Wonder if continued suppression of the Scots, higher unemployment and greater difficulties
    in eating properly will drive up the use of drugs?

  142. Sarah

    @ Twathater: as usual I suggest that a way to bring the attention of the SNP and Holyrood to the great wish for independence is a petition to Holyrood itself i.e. on their own petition system.

    This is a very simple first step. Spread the word round all the Yes movement and get it signed – that would be several hundred thousand and may even go like wildfire to millions.

    @ Al-Stuart: I share your worries. Scotland in the UK is a very dangerous and worrying place. A useful move would be to break Police Scotland back up – far harder to manipulate.

  143. Breeks

    News this morning seems to be the UK is planning legislation to override key parts of Brexit Withdrawal Treaty and Northern Ireland protocol – a breach of an International Agreement with potentially HUGE ramifications.

    For the love of God Scotland, if you’re not worried about Scottish Industry being asset stripped and becoming ostracised from Europe through Westminster’s malicious deregulation, which might now even arrive before December if this goes ahead, then please recognise the UK is fast tracking itself to Pariah status in International standing through flagrant breaches of International Treaties.

    ACT NOW! Take Scotland’s unconstitutional and unlawful Brexit subjugation before the International Court of Justice at the UN, and formally dispute UK Parliamentary Sovereignty. Do it now, while the rest of the World recognises the UK as a rogue State in the making, which cannot be trusted to honour International Agreements… The Brexit Withdrawal Treaty for one, the 1707 Treaty of Union for another…

    Don’t wait for the gutless SNP to lead us, or Scotland is doomed to flounder in the UK’s quicksand.

    We need an actor, as in someone to act, like Martin Keatings, like Joanna Cherry, “someone”,… a figurehead to make the move, create the initiative which we can all coalesce behind, crowdfund to the rafters, and finally set Scotland on it’s path to liberation.

  144. callmedave


    Beat me to it there on the ripping up of the Irish protocol by Boris. What next? 🙁

  145. susanXX

    I agree totally Breeks and Twathater.

  146. Ronald Fraser

    Give Nicola Sturgeon a break, she is run off her feet dealing with Covid-19, GRA and a Hate Crime Bill.

    Less important matters such as that Brexity thing and that pesky Indy thing will just have to wait until she has time.

  147. Daisy Walker

    @ Polly ‘However your idea of plebiscite election requires the SNP to actually do that ‘

    @ iain mhor says:
    6 September, 2020 at 11:35 pm
    Aye well, I can keep doing what I’ve ways been doing, except this time the question I keep getting is “Oh aye and how is that going to happen?”

    Dear Polly and Iain – the idea of a plebiscite election requires the SNP actually do that – hmmm, at the moment yes, but their cast iron excuse for not doing so, and not even putting it on the table is ‘Scotland isn’t ready, not until the polls are 60% and over, can it even be considered.’

    So step 1 – we get the polls over 60% by years end.

    So, why then would they move from Gold Standard S30 – to plan B Plebiscite?

    2 Reasons – an electorate who had woken up to the dangers of Brexit – economic ruin, Boris/Britain in charge, Holyrood decommissioned.

    And political pressure from them and us – in a managed way.

    In the process of campaigning to get Indy support of 60%, we identify local prospects for election – initially for the list vote.

    From January – end of February – the SNP have the chance to request and get a formal answer on a S30 (WM will say No).

    In that time we fundraise for the putting up of candidates. But we hold it in trust. If the SNP deliver on the above, they can access it.

    If they do not, it goes to Independent candidates who have signed a mandate for a plebiscite HE for Indy, and a commitment not to campaign for other things like GRA, or Hate Bill, etc.

    For those who feel betrayed, or let down by NS and /or the party. OK. You can spend time crying in your soup, rummaging through the wreckage looking for evidence, and while your doing that WE LOSE.

    Or you can pick yourself up, dust yourself down, and campaign. Not for NS, not for the SNP, but for Scotland and for the right to a democratic vote on same.

    The above is a plan. Its not perfect and it needs fine tuned, but it is a plan. As much as there is a tight time scale, that can also work to our advantage, and concentrate our minds and our efforts brilliantly.

    Or we can cry in our soup.

    We said it before to No Voters – Indy is about more than Alex, its about more than the SNP, its about more than your current poll tax rating.

    Now we have to take that on the chin and concentrate on what is important – if NS is not delivering – do we let her block Indy? No we don’t.

    If NS is just being cautious, she has clearly said she needs/wants support for Indy over 60% in the polls. Lets gift this to her, for Christmas.

    Start today, with a wee poster. See how it feels, and look out for someone else doing the same.

    We have a country to save folks and it has always been our responsibility.

    And lets face it. We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

  148. Jacqueline McDowell

    Well said.

    We have to take the fight for independence back to the activists. That means all the groups that want independence and the individuals within the Scottish population. Whilst the SNP has or maybe had been the vehicle for independence it is now up to the Scottish people and the wider yes movement. The hierarchy of the SNP must not be allowed to get their own way. They list that right taking so long to get here and with some of the stupid decisions and bills they have been trying to get through when they should have been concentrating on Independence. Fed up of stupid internal politics, especially at branch level. This is the people’s choice We have to stand up and take charge.

  149. Daisy Walker

    Robert Louis says ‘we need Leadership’

    No we don’t, we need a clear and achievable plan. Its lovely if a figurehead appears to provide it, but not essential.

    So here it is.

    Step 1 – we campaign now and get support for Indy over the 60% mark before years end.

    This will either genuinely delight NS, or she will chew wasps telling folk how delighted she is about it. Either way its good for Scotland, and means that ‘Scotland isn’t ready for a plebiscite HE vote on Indy’ is no longer valid.

    As we campaign local people will come to the fore (as they did in Indy1) who will be electable.

    January to February – we insist the SNP submit the S30 request with a timed deadline. No reply is a de facto no.

    They then make the HE campaign a Plebiscite one in their manifesto. Or else.

    We fundraise a pot of money – for the election of candidates to HE on a clear manifesto for Indy. The SNP want a chunk of it, they need to deliver. If not we have a bus full of local electable candidates with the finances to stand.

    You guys are all campaign experts – but there are certain themes we can all join in with.

    2 parts negative – 1 part positive.

    We personalise Boris – and why, because We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

    Boris epitomises all that is wrong with WM and the way it treats Scotland. He is an absolute gift.

    Boris is Britain, Britain is Boris.

    You know the old adage about the tourist in Ireland who stops to ask directions and is told, ‘well I wouldn’t start from here’. It was ever thus.

    However, if folk start now, we can do this. In fact we must do this.

    The news about N Ireland is deeply worrying. But from a tactical point of view – how stupid can Boris get. Ireland has the full support of the people and politicians (on all sides) in America.

    Like I say, we can do so much better than Boris.

  150. Margaret E

    With even more blows today, and still not a word from our so-called leader, may I remind all her retainers that ‘Hope deferred maketh the heart sick’ (Proverbs 13.12)
    How to regain hope?
    Bear with me, just a word from a paraphrased Robert Browning (why not a poetry quote for once?)
    Just for a handful of silver she left us,
    Just for a riband to stick on her coat—
    So much was hers who so little allowed:
    How all our copper had gone for her service!
    We that had loved her so, followed her, honoured her,
    Made her our pattern to live and to die!
    Burns, Shelley, were with us,—they watch from their graves!
    We shall march prospering—not thro’ her presence;
    Deeds will be done,—while she boasts her quiescence,
    There will be doubt, hesitation and pain,
    Never glad confident morning again!
    Best fight on well, for we taught her—strike gallantly
    Blot out her name, then, record one lost soul more.

  151. Breeks

    callmedave says:
    7 September, 2020 at 8:47 am

    Beat me to it there on the ripping up of the Irish protocol by Boris. What next? ?

    Truth be told, it might be the schoolboy version of brinkmanship, but brinkmanship for these Tory clowns is the equivalent of a lunatic having sharp objects to play with.

    But we should be doing our own bluff calling… take the threat this poses to Transition period literally, and use it to spur ourselves to action, then never look back. Let this be the trigger for our “state of emergency” response and appeal to the UN International Court of Justice.

    It’s disgraceful and shameful that Sturgeon and the SNP aren’t already doing this, but perhaps the reason will be made clear when it’s written on their political epitaph.

  152. mike cassidy

    The woowoo in genderwoowoo gets more woowoo by the day

    Gender-creative parenting, anyone (only archives the first bit)

    This has been a glimpse of Scotland’s future

  153. Stan Broadwood

    I wouldn’t walk one more step for that fraudster Sturgeon.

    I wouldn’t post one more leaflet for Independence while Sturgeon sits on her fat arse doing nothing.

    Her and her man are like a pair of parasites, living off the blood sweat and tears of true Indy supporters.

    All you are doing is highlighting the Sturgeon profile, which leads to her getting another five years to push through her Woke agenda.

    All you Sturgeon cheerleaders, I thought you would be out campaigning this morning, instead of posting on a blog which is definitely not pro Sturgeon.

    When Sturgeon gives us proof of her desire for indyRef2 then I might consider campaigning again.

    Sturgeon has fooled me for the last time.

  154. mike cassidy

    No need to guess who’ll win this year’s

    ‘Most Boring Troll’ award

    at the WOS xmas party

  155. Stan Broadwood

    The SNP.


    The “Spineless Numpties Party”

    Never a truer word has been printed.

  156. Stan Broadwood

    Brexit will win us our Independence,,, NOT Sturgeon.

  157. susanXX

    Inspiring posts @DaisyWalker!

  158. Daisy Walker

    thanks susanxx

  159. Stan Broadwood

    Why is Nicola Sturgeon being so evasive?

    Why has the whole SNP machine stopped talking about Scottish Independence?

    Nicola has to lead from the front.

    We don’t have the powers to push for Independence, she does.

  160. Grendel

    Daisy Walker- “Boris is Britain – we personalise it at every turn.”

    It has to be bigger than that, more long term than that.
    Pre-September 2014 the Britnats focused exclusively on Alex Salmond, that he would be President Salmond, leader for life. A “Dear Leader” for Scotland, forever.I’m convinced that had Mr Salmond announced a week out from the referendum that if we voted Yes he would see the independence negotiations through and then step aside that the Britnat press attacks would become immediately ineffective, having become so fixated on one personality.

    A programme of highly personalised attacks on Boris Johnson might work during the latter stages of an actual referendum, but we aren’t there yet. What we need to be doing on that front is to point to the chain which preceded it and the likely chain which might follow. Cameron gave way to May, who preceded Johnson, to be followed by who exactly? Rees-Mogg? Gove? We have been governed by a long line of faces, some arguably more competent than others, and will be governed by more who may be more or less competent, but all have one thing in common – they will NEVER make decisions for Scotland with our best interests uppermost in their minds. We are an afterthought at the best of times.
    London rule, Westminster and the simple mathematics of England’s electoral weight over ours must be uppermost in sowing discontent in the waverers minds.

    You want a change of government? Tough.#EnglandDecides
    You want to control your borders during a global pandemic? Tough. #WestminsterSaysNo
    You think Scotland should control it’s coastal waters? #Tough. #EnglandSaysNo
    You thought you would protect Scotland’s place in Europe by voting to stay in the UK? Mug. #WestminsterSawYouComingYouEejit

  161. Fergus Denoon

    But this would surely be a colossal waste of time?

    As this site keeps telling us there will be no referendum…

  162. Athanasius

    “The Scottish government cannot be the issue”. Yeah, I can see how a member of the SNP might take that attitude. May I politely put it to you, Kenny, that maybe it would be less of an issue if the membership, MPs and MSPs were seen to be visibly pushing back against the woke mafia who have taken the party over and were actively trying to oust them from the officer boards. Maybe even do a Neil Kinnock and actually expel them the way he did Militant from Labour in the 1980s as a “party within a party”?

  163. kapelmeister

    It’s obvious now that the Johnsonite Tories think international agreements, treaties, constitutions, rights etc are just things that can be defied or trashed according to their wishes. With the endless battalions of Farage fans across England cheering them on.

    While the SNP elite think you get a referendum from these people by cordially asking.

    Meanwhile Mountebank Murrell ever enjoys his secret salary sinecure. The mountebank who laughs at us all the way to the bank.

  164. Republicofscotland

    Baroness Davidson and her sidekick Douglas (offside) Ross have sent out a multitude of begging letters looking for cash donations including leafleting Sturgeon’s constituency.

  165. Polly

    Thanks Cameron and LizG but I was sound asleep but even when here, that resident of this place doesn’t bother me at all in whatever guise it appears.

  166. Daisy Walker

    Stan Broadwood says:
    7 September, 2020 at 11:11 am

    ‘We don’t have the powers to push for Independence, she (NS) does.’

    Dear Stan, they would love us to believe that – however, putting the cart back behind the horse so to speak…

    The ‘push’ is the ground that is covered by US in the campaign. We have loaned the SNP leadership the starting pistol.

    Events now mean that the race has already started.

    Were NS to fire the starting pistol – what in practical terms would it mean? – it would mean we would be asked to campaign and make the case for Scotland.

    We go now and we get an early start on that.

    The ‘power’ comes from the vote – whether by Referendum or by Plebiscite Holyrood or WM Election.

    We have time just now to put power to the SNP’s elbow and Get Support For Indy over 60% – they are all the way correct when they identify this as essential.

    Then January – February becomes a high pressure time on the SNP – and we apply that pressure. They deliver or we elect others.

    It’s called Being Independent. We are not sheeple.

    Grendel says:
    7 September, 2020 at 11:20 am
    Daisy Walker- “Boris is Britain – we personalise it at every turn.”

    ‘It has to be bigger than that, more long term than that.’

    It is bigger than that, but the above meme is something we can rattle off, its true, and its something we can all get behind and deliver – without bending (non political) folks’ lugs about the ins and outs of the economy, the pound, etc, etc.

    By personalising Boris – we personalise all the other Eton nobs before who got put into WM and inflicted on Scotland.

    In that way its a very useful tool – but if you would rather use a different tool – you know your area and audience better than me, go for it. Your your own expert. Just lets get going.

    And we get support for indy over the 60% line before years end.

  167. Gordon Currie

    There’s a project to devise a Scottish Constitution well under way:

    We should be taking advantage of the move to Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDC), which will replace FIAT currencies and re-introduce fractional reserve banking. This world-changing switch is imminent, China are already live with theirs. It will likely see the end of the US$ as the de-facto World Reserve Currency

    We have an ideal opportunity to create a Central Bank with no legacy systems to integrate, with the currency’s value based on the natural capital of the economy – Scotland is estimated to have 34% of the natural capital of the British Isles, so we’d have a strong currency from day 1.

  168. Polly

    @ Daisy Walker

    As you know Daisy I agree with your attitude and a lot of what you say and we should do whatever we can ourselves. I agree with all of that part. However so much still does depend on the party doing their part and circumstances of inquiry, brexit, Westminster and what will happen in response to all that and that is beyond our control and it’s that bit that worries me. I’ll do what I’ve been trying already and take your other suggestions, they seem sensible since they’re all we have.

    I do agree with Grendel though that although we should attack Boris, we shouldn’t limit our attacks to just him, especially if there’s already rumours he mightn’t be around for long. Whatever leader of Westminster, even should they be nice as pie, should be open for attack if they stand against Scotland’s right to vote for independence. With Boris there might be more targets to hit granted. And if we can push SNP into action good, but a lot still depends on them. Here’s hoping they take note of the disquiet.

  169. cirsium

    @Sarah, 8.12, @Breeks, 8.43
    Good posts. That petition to Holyrood is a great idea. It could galvanise YES groups and could give a necessary focus for action. There is a need to get the attention back to fundamentals like the Scottish constitutional principle that the people are sovereign.

  170. mike cassidy

    This is why the GRA reform is so important to transactivists in Scotland and elsewhere

    They probably couldn’t believe their luck that they convinced so many organisations for so long that the current Equality law did not reserve women’s spaces for biological women

    But their ‘luck’ is running out

    And they want verbal self-id in place before the whole edifice collapses

  171. Breeks

    “ If true, this means repudiation by UK govt of a Treaty freely negotiated by it, & described by PM in GE as an ‘oven ready’ deal. This will significantly increase likelihood of no deal, and the resulting damage to the economy will be entirely Tory inflicted. What charlatans.”

    ….repudiation by a UK govt of a Treaty…. What charlatans.

    Is that right Nicola? And what about Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation and colonial violation of the Treaty of Union? That’s an International Treaty too in case you hadn’t noticed, yet Westminster can cock it’s leg on that Treaty and your “government” doesn’t say a word. What charlatans and hypocrites no?

  172. Stan Broadwood


    Glad to see you came over to my superior opinion over that of Daisy’s.

    It takes a strong character to admit you are wrong, so well done.

    I post my opinion now and again, I am only too happy for you to use my opinion in your posts.

    We all know Sturgeon is a fraudster, so Polly, use my material any time you feel like it.

  173. Stan Broadwood

    Mike Cassidy

    Are you a member of the Spineless Numpties Party???

    Sorry,,,I meant the SNP.

    Same thing isn’t it???

  174. kapelmeister

    Scot Lib Dem MP Wendy Chamberlain has been appointed LD Chief Whip in the Commons. Does that mean she’s OK with Ed Davey’s new policy of the party accepting brexit?

  175. Breeks

    Think I was exaggerating about the UK being a rogue state in the making?

    “ If true (Peter is usually right) UK is now going fully rogue. Civil servants should obey political instructions but not when they are asked to break the law.”

    ….Tweets Bobby McDonagh, Ireland’s former Ambassador to the UK and Italy.

    To quote Wiki…

    “He is regarded as an expert on European Union affairs, having spent 23 years of his career either in the corridors of Brussels or in the EU division of the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs. This included periods in the Secretariat of the European Parliament, periods in the cabinets of two European Commissioners and a period (2005–2009) as the Irish Permanent Representative to the EU.“

  176. Daisy Walker

    Dear Polly

    thank you for your response.

    with regards your comment ‘However so much still does depend on the party doing their part and circumstances of inquiry, brexit, Westminster and what will happen in response to all that and that is beyond our control and it’s that bit that worries me.’

    I completely understand and share your worries. But there are a lot of really good people in the SNP – who are also worried.

    Getting 60% support for Indy over the line before years end – takes the wind out of the ‘now is not the time’ brigade completely AND it needs done anyway.

    Worrying about what is beyond our control is soul destroying. Lets get moving on what We Can Do. That is powerful stuff, which is why the powers that be, spend such a lot of time and resources, telling us – too wee, too poor, too stupid, and now is not the time, etc. They demoralise on purpose to stop us ‘doing’.

    Best wishes.

  177. Robert Graham

    Mike Cassidy @ 10:04

    Your link to a frightening future Scotland

    I don’t know whether to thank you or say gonie no day that , I honestly can’t put into words the whole idea of , well to put it mildly the off the wall nut jobs who most people would avoid like the Plague and try and sit them in a corner to limit the damage they could do to impressionable people , we definitely don’t allow them anywhere near positions of any kind of influence on changing legislation or even changing the Law of this country.

  178. Stan Broadwood

    I thought all you Sturgeonistas would have been out campaigning, and getting us up to 60% in the Polls.

    You won’t achieve that sitting at your computer being a keyboard warrior.

    C’mon,,,get the wellies on and get out there.

    And don’t forget your Brolly.

  179. Clapper57

    BBC2 are showing the Alex Salmond Trial programme AGAIN on Wednesday at 12.30am…….that will mean this programme has been aired THREE times….when first aired it received nearly 1000 complaints….BBC response was to repeat the programme….not just once but come Wednesday repeat twice….

    The press said the programme was pointless as offered no new perspective but then the press must know it was only commissioned as a project smear via Wark and her husband who were hopeful that the outcome of the trial would be different…..I am sure the original cut of this programme included many more ‘witness’ interviews and also many from women’s organisations condemning Salmond backed up by Wark and her cronies misinformed observations via extended cafe scenes…..

    It should have been patently clear to those who made the programme and indeed the channel that commissioned it, that based on the actual outcome, this programme should have been shelved… totally pointless and clearly biased and tasteless based on the outcome of the trial….and the omission of the defence evidence in the programme was a blatant indication of where the sympathies of Wark lay indeed the overall programme was heavily biased in favour of the prosecution……the only thing this programme conveyed was a trial by media…..the reporting on the actual trial…not so much.

    If Wark had her way the judge at the trial would have only heard the prosecutions case and disallowed the defence case…which would then have been a more accurate reflection based on this programme’s content….

    A vendetta ?….most definitely yes…the BBC have clearly decided it is indeed waging a vendetta against Salmond and most apt that the messenger who delivers it is Jack McConnell’s close friend Kirsty Wark……someone who is incapable of hiding her biased Unionist credentials thus is just another useless source that reports untrustworthy and unreliable news reports and interviews…with a nice sideline in promoting propaganda on those against the Union…within a Unionist organisation who pays her wages…..

    The further repeat of this programme is a two fingered salute to all of us who dare to challenge them, the BBC, while still expecting us to pay for the privilege of being relentlessly disregarded, disrespected and basically being trolled to f**k .

  180. Polly

    @ stan

    Your coat doesn’t fit very well, best take it off and go back to your own raiment.

    @ Daisy

    Indeed, Daisy, many good folk still in SNP at present, but of course many good ones standing down and quite a few more standing, with party support, who I would be very much against. No doubt they’ll get in despite some of your suggestions for threatening them with alternatives. But time being limited means we’ll get there quickly at least for good or ill. Take care

  181. Wee Chid

    Come back when you have a definite date. Fed up campaigning for something that might not happen until long after I’m dead – if then.

  182. Cod

    All well and nice, and the sentiment is good, but I have one question for Mr MacAskill, and that’s the same question I’ve been asking for the last couple of years:

    “What is the plan when the government at Westminster refuse the next S30 request? Which they most definitely will.”

    That’s it. All the marches in the world are not going to change Johnson’s mind, even if all 5 million inhabitants of Scotland came out on the streets. So there needs to be an answer to that question, which isn’t just vague word salad or magical thinking. And simply holding a referendum anyway is not going to be an option, since, as I’ve said before, half the Councils in the country would refuse to take part, and a vote with only a percentage of the people able to vote is not a real referendum.

  183. CameronB Brodie

    “…..half the Councils in the country would refuse to take part, and a vote with only a percentage of the people able to vote is not a real referendum.”

    What, actively subvert the rule-of-law to support their British nationalism? Unless folk start to acknowledge British constitutional practice lacks coherence and comparability with international law, Scots will always be slaves of Westminster.

    The defining characteristic of a slave’s existence is fear. It’s time Scotland stopped living in fear of freedom, and started living in a way that is free of fear.

    South African Journal on Human Rights Volume 11, 1995 – Issue 1
    The Implications of a Bill of Rights for the Law of Contract and Delict

  184. CameronB Brodie

    ….COMPATIBILITY, not comparability.

  185. AWoLsco

    Listen Campbell, when are you going to drop this’reverend’ nonsense….. and return to being a normal, honest, decent, proper-living person?

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