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How Britain works

Posted on January 20, 2015 by

There are sacred rules, except when you don’t have to bother with them.


The beauty of an unwritten “constitution”, eh readers?

“Sir Nicholas denied that revealing his private advice showed civil service politicisation, saying it was comparable to clarifying the UK Government’s position if questioned by a fellow European Union member state.”
(The Telegraph, 9 April 2014)

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  1. 20 01 15 14:44

    How Britain works - Speymouth

160 to “How Britain works”

  1. Benjamin Rae says:

    who said that? I seriously believe the secret services could have been involved in rigging the election. With that similar sort of justification. That the state itself was facing an existential threat

  2. An unwritten constitution isn’t worth the paper it isn’t written on.

  3. mary vasey says:

    We in Scotland all knew this so it’s not news to us AYE

  4. handclapping says:

    Why do you find this surprising? Poor old Sir Peter was accused of going native just because he stood true to the civil service ethos of aiding their Minister to achieve his/her aims.

  5. Joemcg says:

    No danger the vote was rigged, eh readers?!

  6. Chris Paton says:

    There’s really no beauty in that. The only integrity impugned was his own.

  7. BrianW says:

    Better Together, No thanks uKOK C**t

  8. John Fern says:

    No surprises there then.

  9. Muscleguy says:

    Ah I had a feeling that what we were doing during the referendum was in effect sedition even though it was via a completely democratic process. Now we know the civil service agreed.

    Though the attitude seems to other us, to implicitly deny that we too are British citizens. It also says the civil service are not there for us. They are a local civil service for local people, they don’t want our sweaty Jock sort there.

  10. msean says:

    Looks like the Sir Humphry set run the UK. The power of these guys has to be curbed by Parliament,they are meant to work for us with whoever is elected,not make decisions themselves.

    At least Cameron stands for election,there are too many Lords and Sirs who are unelected with too much power.

  11. msean says:

    And what happened to democracy anyway.

  12. scaredycat says:

    It’s a shame they didn’t bother to explain this to the rest of us civil servants instead of sending us threatening emails.

  13. donald anderson says:

    The English Constitution, as it is known, is not worth the paper it is not written on.

  14. Muscleguy says:

    Note too that when the unionist parties at Holyrood try to get at the SNP govt over civil service work for them during the referendum the SNP can now quote Sir Nicholas’s words at them. Their country was being threatened by a foreign power.

  15. Grouse Beater says:

    The imperial mentality is wonderous to behold.

    For attempting to undermine a set, agreed democratic process the bastard should be arrested and charged with sedition.

  16. Macart says:

    Well, NO voters?

    We kinda telt ye, again and again and again and again … etc. You get the drift.

    Do you feel misled, used and abused enough yet? Or are are you up for some more?

    Its now up to you to put it right and you can, starting in May. Let the bastards know exactly how you feel about this at the ballot. Send down thirty plus indy minded MPs who will hold them to account and demand FFA till their pips squeak.

  17. No no no...Yes says:

    Shocking and disturbing and should form part of every canvassing pack for the GE2015. Dave said we are a family of nations!

  18. Jiggsbro says:

    It is unreasonable to suppose the security services were not involved in countering this grave threat to the territorial integrity of the UK. If they weren’t, they’re clearly incompetent and should be sanctioned.

  19. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    So the democratic will of the Scottish people has no validity or worth.

    I wonder what the UN or the ECHR would think of that?

    Silly me, democracy in this Lewis Carrol Kingdom, means anything they want it to mean.

    A better argument for the Independence I cannot find.

    Does Sir Humphry’s assertion mean that Scottish Civil Servants are free to campaign and act for Independence?

  20. Doug Daniel says:

    As spitting mad as stuff like this might make us, at least it removes their ability to fool people with the same tactics next time. When IndyRef 2 happens, we can just reprint their own words admitting that the Treasury is not impartial, and point out that every word that comes out of it should be viewed as part of a political campaign.

    They fought as if they only had to win once. They were wrong.

  21. Chic McGregor says:

    “the normal rules of civil service impartiality” being that huge levels of government expenditure on projects in the SE and which only benefit the SE are designated national projects and therefore do not invoke Barnett consequentials.

  22. Dr Ew says:

    What is the source of the first quote, please Stu?

  23. Steve Bowers says:

    Let me just check my “Am I surprised meter” Hmmmmm just as I thought, not a fucking twitch.

  24. Roboscot says:

    What a price the British establishment/state has paid to keep hold of Scotland. The monarchy, the civil service, the BBC, the CBI. All damaged by their role.

  25. R-type Grunt says:

    There is no doubt in my mind that the referendum was rigged. That we’re not doing anything about that speaks volumes about Scots.

  26. Macart says:

    @ Dr Ew

    If you click on it, you’ll head for an online page of the Independent.

  27. galamcennalath says:

    Just adds to the wider pattern. They have destroyed their Union trying to save it. However, they don’t seem to have come to terms with that yet. Democracy and people power will overcome the dirty tricks of a corrupt establishment, sooner or later.

  28. Ken500 says:

    Unelected Nicholas MacPherson should be sacked.

    Michael Fallon Tory liar, should get nuclear subs parked at Westminster. Smug little Tory. Or park them up at Barrow and Furness.

    Vote SNP/Alliance to get rid of Trident/HS2 and the deficit.

  29. James Christie says:

    The money quote would have been Civil Service impartiality being ditched. Why didn’t Rentoul get that? Its importance meant it should have been a direct quote.

  30. Oscar Taime says:

    This is why we need to be preparing an entirely new type of constitution

    How about this

  31. Who would have thought? So the referendum wasn’t Scotland’s after all. I wonder what the result of the EU in/out referendum was.

  32. HandandShrimp says:

    A fully fledged member of Better Together

    Who knew?

    Impartiality, Objectivity, Honesty and Integrity?

    My bahookie!

  33. HandandShrimp says:

    Dr Ew

    I think you are just teasing Stu 🙂

  34. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    Shouldn’t they have put a public stop to the Edinburgh Agreement if that was the case?

    Haven’t the Civil Service wasted public money by not doing so in the first place? Or was the farce required for the appearance of democracy?

  35. Murray McCallum says:

    Has Sir Nicholas Macpherson got a list of scenarios where the “normal rules” do not apply? This should be made public so that everyone is aware. We need to know when we are being given imbalanced and subjective information.

    He seems to think that the civil service can decide in advance for the entire population and not leave critical decisions up to an informed electorate.

  36. heedtracker says:

    All on their propaganda BBC attack machine Democracy Day too. Its now clear that they will destroy Holyrood to make sure nothing like this happens again and he’s one of the hatchet men to do it. Smith Commission’s clearly just another fraud but they are pretty mental though the teamGB establishment, as in

    “On oil, he noted that the current oil price of around $50 a barrel would have meant that in the first year of independence, 2016-17, Scotland’s deficit would have been 6½ per cent of GDP, whereas the deficit run by the rest of the UK would have been 2 per cent of GDP”

    This January 2015 dear neo fascists.

  37. Cag-does-thinking says:

    It was interesting last night to watch Newsnight (the real one not the pretend Scottish version with wall to wall Jackie Baillie) and them doing a hypothetical stroll through the benches of a potential hung parliament. Interesting were the hypothetical numbers. 38 SNP MPs to 4 yes 4 UKIP MPs and 25 Liberal Democrats proving the whole thing was a bit fictional really but suggesting that the BBC might recognise that actually the SNP have much more chance of being elected than UKIP, indeed if that is their hypothetial then the three way debate should well be between Dave Ed and Nicola.

  38. Luigi says:

    Doug Daniel says:

    20 January, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    They fought as if they only had to win once. They were wrong.

    And this explains why those angry unionists are now acting like they lost. After throwing everything (including their reputations) into one big battle, they now realise that the war has only just begun.

  39. James Christie says:

    “Shouldn’t they have put a public stop to the Edinburgh Agreement if that was the case?”

    10 days before the referendum they were probably cursing themselves for agreeing to it. Cameron agreed to co-operate with a referendum because he was convinced that with the Civil Service, a compliant media, and the whole establishment firmly onside then Better Together would have no trouble getting a big win. The Edinburgh Agreement just appeared the least painful way to lance the boil. It wasn’t really about giving us a democratic say.

  40. bookie from hell says:

    some more love

    Sir Nick Macpherson, the Treasury permanent secretary, said that Scotland would be able to serve as a “laboratory” where alternative tax policies could be tried under devolution.

  41. galamcennalath says:

    normal rules … did not apply

    Rather sums up the whole campaign. One side played by the agreed rules. The other side went into no-holds-barred mode where the greater the threat of losing, the further they undermined constitutional protocol.

  42. Lollysmum says:

    The article that Stu used to link the first point of this post to was a meeting of the Strand Group.

    In it this civil servant says I am absolutely certain that we would not have entered into a currency union.

    That isn’t what was said a couple of months ago when it was announced that the BoEng had put plans in place for a currency union in the event of yes. This McPherson would have known that so they are still lying but this time to rUK.

    He also isn’t admitting that BoE stated that currency union was the best outcome for UK in event of YES.

    Full article here

  43. fionan says:

    O/T but doesnt 39 degrees have links with labour? Email received today:Dear ******,

    Matt’s set the date for a 38 Degrees meet-up in Southampton. Peggy and David are getting together with other 38 Degrees members in Bristol and Aberdeen. They’re discussing what they can do locally – and nationally – to push the issues we care about to the top of the election agenda.

    In the past week, thousands of us have been sharing our priorities: from protecting our NHS to cracking down on tax dodging. [1] These are big issues that affect us all. But it’s what we do together – from holding a street-stall to rating local candidates – that will force these issues into the spotlight. So we need a plan.

    Could you arrange a meet-up with other 38 Degrees members in Moray to get the ball rolling?


    It’s quick and easy to set a time, and cafe or pub to meet in, on the 38 Degrees website. Then the staff team can invite other 38 Degrees members near you along. Packs to help you have a fruitful meeting will be posted at the end of the week, so please set up an event now if you can.

    How are we going to make sure that candidates in Moray, the media and other voters can’t walk down the street without hearing about the NHS, tax dodging and TTIP? Should we focus on exposing politicians who tell lies during their campaigns? Or is it more important to register people in Moray to vote?

    Politics-as-usual has been turned on its head since the last election. Last week, Green party membership overtook UKIP and the Lib Dems, while in Scotland scores of young people are joining political parties. [2] There are now millions of 38 Degrees members across the UK – together, we could change the UK for the better.

    Can you take the first step and choose a time, and a cafe or pub, to meet up with 38 Degrees members near you? Then other 38 Degrees members in Moray can put the date in their diaries and join in. Please click here now to register your meet-up on the 38 Degrees website:


  44. Luigi says:

    No wonder the establishment is feeling rather anxious:

    Until a popular outcome is finally achieved, the issue of the constitution will now feature largely in every single election in Scotland thereafter. The war has just begun.

    It’s the stuff of unionist nightmares.

  45. Valerie says:

    Yes, 38 degrees does have a link to Labour, I got the same email, despite trying to unsubscribe a while back.

  46. Valerie says:

    Disgusting and depressing admission by a mandarin, but unsurprising.

    Given how he worded the admission, it does make you wonder about vote rigging, even tho I have steered clear of that theory.

    So condescending, the plebs of Scotland have no right to think for themselves – too wee, too stupid, etc

  47. heedtracker says:

    The Independent hack’s sign off says a great a deal about British journalism too

    “Sir Nicholas is unusual for a mandarin in his willingness to explain and defend his thinking in public…

    We look forward to many of his colleagues following his excellent example in the months and years to come.”

    Until they come after you that is but its all OK as civil service henchman like Sir Nicholas are only carrying out the policy of the elected government, that lost last time and there’s nothing you can do about it now is there proud Scot buts.

  48. Lollysmum says:

    With every day that passes it becomes more & more apparent that Scotland will only get indyref2 when they have given Scotgov the mandate for it twice. (Once can be dismissed as a fluke & would be.)

    Every vote very definitely counts folks & I do hope all those Noes take the opportunity to redeem themselves. Saying you regret voting No after a second vote will not cut it next time around.

  49. Macca73 says:

    It’s comments such as this which makes you realise that they can’t just brush us under the carpet. We’re not going away and when May comes around they will have to answer for thier sins!

  50. Macart says:

    @ Valerie

    Still, that crystal ball of his must have been working overtime. He appeared convinced that:

    a) Scotland’s future economic model wouldn’t vary wildly from rUK
    b) That it would be singularly heavily reliant on the price of oil
    c) That the price of oil will remain static over the entire period

    I mean on reasoning like that, why wouldn’t you take decision making out of the hands of the plebs. Clearly we can’t be trusted to tie our own shoes without supervision from the imperial masters.

  51. Gallowglass says:

    Slightly off topic, but see when people say ‘ahh, x happened, I wonder what the UN would think of that’.

    Haven’t we just had an episode where it really doesn’t matter what the UN thinks or doesn’t think about Scotland, democracy and independence, they weren’t much use then.

    Who on earth is stupid enough to think they’d give a shit now?

    I realise it’s a natural reaction, but there really is no world police against this sort of stuff.

    I suggest folk suck it up before banding on about global institutions that do hee haw.

  52. jimnarlene says:

    By “territorial integrity” read, those Scots gits have all the resources, doomed; we’re all doomed.

    That was the end of round 1, round 2 has begun. Now we know how dirty they fight, they haven’t kept there powder dry and have shot their bolt.

  53. Arbroath1320 says:

    Dear Mr and Mrs NO voter.

    During the referendum you sat back and absorbed every little speck of *ahem* news from the BBC because, in their words, they were an impartial source of news.

    You read all that there was to be read in the print newspapers because you believed that none of them would dare print lies.

    You believed every word that was uttered by a civil servant from London because you believed that they were neutral and would not, could not, become involved in the referendum debate.

    You believed every utterance to come forth from Labour, Tory and Lib Dem politician because you believed that as a politician they would not lie to you.

    You believed Gordon Brown when he promised *cough* as near federalism as possible, despite the BBC now attempting to re-write history, isn’t that right Kay with an “E”?

    Is there anything I have missed so far?

    Despite our numerous, and sometimes vocal, attempts to open your eyes to the reality of the situation you kept your eyes firmly SHUT! Perhaps now that the Treasury permanent secretary, Sir Nicholas Macpherson, has openly admitted that he and his fellow civil servants were NOT as *ahem* neutral as you believed them to be you might consider being a wee bit more honest in future about why you actually voted NO.


    A concerned Cybernat

  54. Kenny says:

    Can UK civil servants be called before the Scottish Parliament? If so, this fella needs to be brought in as soon as possible. People need to be made aware that where Scotland and England differ, the civil service works for England.

  55. Macart says:

    When they come chapping at your door looking for votes over the next few months, some things to bring up in casual conversation;

    The queens scripted intervention in the referendum
    The lack of orders hitting the yards on Clydeside
    Civil service impartiality in the referendum
    The Smith Commission Fudge
    The cost of Trident 2
    The expansion of food banks
    The lobbying of the corporate world by Cameron in the referendum
    Why is ‘Home Rule’ now officially a no go area by all WM parties
    The lack of support structure by HMG for oil industry workers (where is our sovereign wealth fund and what have you pricks done with the proceeds over the past forty years?)
    Well, is the health service under threat or isn’t it? If so why was it so safe in HMG hands during the referendum?
    Where is the Chilcott report?
    Is the better together part coming along any day now?

    I’m sure there’s plenty more subjects to add to the list.

  56. Johnny says:

    Gallowglass: I agree, the UN is pretty toothless most of the time. I also find it hard to get past believing (whether I am correct in this assertion is another matter) that it was in effect set up by western states to further their will and will never do anything much to challenge what the most powerful say.

  57. Maybe we will have to keep Trident now to stop American invading to introduce democracy to Scotland. Brace yourselves

  58. Dr Ew says:

    Whitehall civil servants can be called before the Scottish Parliament. Not sure if they can be compelled to attend but if not then that’s another power we should secure a.s.a.p.

    Thanks. Working now.

    I wasn’t teasing Stu – as if!

  59. Grouse Beater says:

    Who on earth is stupid enough to think they’d [UN] give a shit now?

    By majority vote they can make illegal or can condemn any intervention of any kind by one country against another.

    The UN has opposed all military attacks, assassination attempts, blockades and trade barriers on Cuba ever since the USA declared it intentions to impose ‘terror from hell on that little island.’

    Only the power of the USA prevented the rest of us – plus some arse licking world leaders – resisting USA’s ‘terrorist’ tactics. Obama has reversed that policy.

  60. manandboy says:

    Sir Nicholas McPherson’s words might have had more effect
    had they not been wrapped in such a thick layer of attitude.
    This ‘insulation’ serves only to prevent the real world from contact with him
    and he with the real world – including the Scots’ right to self-determination.

    Should Sir Nicholas care to divest himself of some of his establishment prejudices, beginning with his very pretentious infallible superiority,
    then he might be of some use to the United Kingdom.
    Until he does he will in all probability remain what he is at present –
    a bag of rather distasteful wind.

  61. Grizzle McPuss says:

    We’re all living in a feudalistic nightmare where the “nae…nonny…nae” sayers won the day. All to be happy with a handout of horse-dung from our noble masters as facilitated by their sheriffs.

    History does have a habit of repeating itself, eh?

  62. wingman 2020 says:

    Sae rantingly, sae wantonly,
    Sae dauntingly gaed he;
    He play’d a tune, and danc’d it roon’
    And they hanged him from a tree.

  63. chalks says:

    If and when an indyref 2 happens, the rUK will try and wreck our economy should we vote yes.

    That much is implied if you read between the lines of the independent article.

    They will point a gun at our heads even more so as I’d imagine there will be a substantial amount of yes voters who do not want a currency union….I’ve noticed with the oil price going down and the industry under threat, the amount of english commentators who are now saying it’s a massive part of the uk economy and it must be saved, this is exactly what they were saying in private during the indyref.

    That is our main card to play, with the balance of trade deficit up for the grabs as well as trident, but I can’t get it out of my head that westminster wouldn’t think twice about trying to destroy us after reading the civil servants comments, as well as osbornes and cochranes.

  64. Kenny says:

    Hypothetical question: let’s say that English nationalism grows stronger on the basis of the subsidy myth and a campaign begins for English independence culminating in a Westminster majority, or the SNP stands candidates everywhere and somehow wins a majority at Westminster. What would the Civil Service do then? It may only be a hypothetical for now, but the former is not beyond the bounds of possibility over the next couple of decades. Would the Civil Service execute a coup d’etat in order to preserve their glorious union?

  65. wingman 2020 says:

    Weird fact. Stating the obvious?

    The fact that we live in a state called the United Kingdom, means that it can and will be disunited in the future.

    Unionists dont understand this. They see only a country called the UK.
    Independence supporters see a non-permanent arrangement in the words United Kingdom.

    Think about it. It’s a bit of an ‘Acts of Union’ marketing failure. They left the countries intact and the kingdoms as simply ‘united’.

  66. jimnarlene says:

    “Is the better together part coming along any day now?”
    Not for those of us, North of the border but, we knew that.

  67. Luigi says:

    It will be interesting to see what the civil service does during the expected euro referendum. If the establishment wants the UK to remain in Europe, will Sir Nicholas (and the BBC for that matter) face the wrath of UKIP?

  68. wingman 2020 says:

    The YES campaign always was up against ‘powerful forces’
    This was nothing that we didn’t know.
    We could put them all under one heading though… The establishment.

  69. Jamie Arriere says:

    Sae rantingly
    Sae wantonly
    Sae dauntingly gaed he
    He played a tune
    And Westminster danced aroon
    Aloe the gallows tree

    Then they hanged democracy!

  70. faolie says:

    For a civil servant, and the head of the civil service at that, it’s an odd choice of words: “the normal rules of civil service impartiality did not apply”. In making that statement he’s admitting to contravening the Civil Service Code.

    There are no mitigating circumstances. The Civil Service Code was not suspended or amended during the referendum campaign. His assertion that he could simply ignore bits of the code because he believed the situation warranted it is simply that – an assertion, with no managerial or governmental permission, endorsement or agreement.

    He might have been better fighting his corner by sticking to a narrow definition of impartiality and saying he was simply supporting the policy of the government of the day, as is his responsibility.

    But he didn’t. As such I would have thought that he could – and should – be disciplined.

  71. Jamie Arriere says:

    Chapeau, Wingman, beat me to it

  72. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thanks for that *ahem* wee list Macart. I sense a series of posters appearing on the Jeep nearer to May with these questions on them. 😉

  73. crisiscult says:

    Now we know what to tell Willie Rennie (who?) when he questions the impartiality of Scottish Civil Servants.

    Dear Mr Rennie

    Thank you for your FOI request. Your request is covered by the ‘impugnity of intergrity’ doctrine. Therefore, we would ask you to shove your request somewhere else.

    Yours sincerely

  74. One_Scot says:

    I sometimes wonder what type of person goes out of their way to vote against their own country. I now know the answer, bloody idiots.

  75. liz says:

    Of course we were up against the full force of the Brit establishment.

    This is why the CBI managed to get away with pretending they were not a BT outfit.

    The EC were also not toothless but part of the same group

  76. ecruden says:

    Lots of people saying “we knew it anyway though” type stuff on twitter. Hugely irritating: no-one cares what you “knew” – the feart granny who believed everything they read in the papers and saw on the bbc didn’t “know” – if this admission were made via the same newspaper during the indyref in quite this tone, it’d be enormously easier to show to said anxious octogenarian as evidence of perfidy. It didn’t and we’re stuck with it, no matter how much “we knew” at the time.

    I think the most important aspect of this admission is how it can be put to use to illustrate to people what the state will do if the Nats hold the balance of power. There is no reason for them not to find a Nat balance of power as equally existentially threatening to the integrity of the state.

  77. The Man in the Jar says:


    Reading your comment made me think.

    Should we now start referring to the United Kingdom`s rather than the United Kingdom?

  78. CameronB Brodie says:


    See also: dictator

    TYRANT, government. The chief magistrate of the state, whether legitimate or otherwise, who violates the constitution to act arbitrarily contrary to justice. Toull. tit. prel. n. 32.

    2. The term tyrant and usurper, are sometimes used as synonymous, because usurpers are almost always tyrants; usurpation is itself a tyrannical act, but properly speaking, the words usurper and tyrant convey different ideas. A king may become a tyrant, although legitimate, when he acts despotically; while a usurper may cease to be a tyrant by governing according to the dictates of justice.

    3. This term is sometimes applied to persons in authority who violate the laws and act arbitrarily towards others. Vide Despotism.

  79. heedtracker says:

    Would the Civil Service execute a coup d’etat in order to preserve their glorious union?

    UKOK spooks had one ready under Wilson and Callaghan. TeamGB establishment have the ability to destroy democracy any way they like. Look at how that crowd of unionist thugs attacked YES voters in George Square but BBC reportage completely lied about all of it.

    All the Treasury civil service are doing here is normalising their staggering corruption and of course teamGB press men back it all up.

    This is the same outfit of conmen that sat and watched the City destroy the banking industry for at least a decade, everyones pensions, savings and mortgages, all destroyed and what happened, here he is, batting for teamGB.

    Then there’s Chilcot and the UKOK civil service are at the centre of the Iraq war disaster as well.

  80. Bob Mack says:

    Certainly confirmation of potential state intervention in the outcome.Always curious as to why 600,000 registered to vote never turned up after all that effort to be sure of being able to votr

  81. Macart says:

    @ L.A.

    I reckon we could chat for hours with our door chapper of choice.

    Stops them from lying their faces off to the more vulnerable and impressionable. 😉

  82. Clootie says:

    come on chaps!

    The civil service has a duty to “guide! us to the correct conclusion.

    What kind of Empire would we have if the peasants were allowed to think for themselves.

    It was a mistake giving the vote to those who didn’t own land in my view.

    Whitehall pulls the strings of the people AND the elected politicians. The latter is easier (a few gongs/titles etc)

  83. Luigi says:

    Bob Mack says:

    20 January, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    Certainly confirmation of potential state intervention in the outcome.Always curious as to why 600,000 registered to vote never turned up after all that effort to be sure of being able to vote

    And the strongest YES areas had the lowest turn-outs (by a considerable margin). The current uncertainty about re-registering to vote in May is also of concern. If many people are prevented from voting, there could be trouble.

  84. Ian says:

    He still took my money despite his lofty principles.

  85. manandboy says:

    Dear wingers, Indy Ref 2? Oh Really?

    Put yourselves in David Cameron’s shoes.

    What would you do next time to save the Union?

    You have just, only just, managed to secure the Union.
    But, you got a helluva fright.
    You stood on the edge of the abyss and looked over.
    You stared at the end of the UK in the face.
    You and all your backers and supporters, plus HMQE2.

    Then you thought a win would be the end of the independence stuff.
    But, it is only the beginning. F!
    You know the Scots are building for another go. F!

    Are you going to put everything on the line again,
    in another ballot – another Referendum? NFC.

    At least, not unless I can secure a guaranteed result.
    (Just like last time, only really, really secure).

    Right, we’ll bring everyone in, MI5, MI6, and the Americans,
    and we’ll tie this Referendum up so tight,
    a duck’s fart won’t get thru’ without us knowing about it.

    Trouble is, we’ve shown our hand already; played all our cards.
    Brown’s a busted flush, and the Scots won’t listen to anyone else.
    And they now have 100,000 activists crawling all over the place,
    recording everything on their f—-ng camera phones.
    Houston we have a problem.

    But wait, we have the Labour party in Scotland (+the OO)- they know everything there is to know about fixing a ballot – right down to the drivers. Phew! What a relief.

    OK. Let’s do it. Phone McTernan.

    Dear Wingers – still keen on another (fixed) Referendum.
    Still wearing your naive socks and your gullible scarf?
    No, I didn’t think so.

    Another Unionist controlled Referendum with a guaranteed No result
    is the LAST thing we need.

    We have to keep the Independence process entirely in Scotlands hands

  86. Westie7 says:

    Which goes to show that even if there is another Ref. Cases such as this will repeat and ensure Yes votes will never be allowed to be seen to win against the no votes. No matter what the % of walk ins to the polling stations there will always be enough postals to swing it

  87. ronnie anderson says:

    PMSL Brian Donahoe russian subs sailing up the Clyde alang wie Topov air cover when was DimJim gonna tell us aboot that,whits that song Unbelivable Thats What You Are,did ah git it rite lol.

  88. Edward says:

    Brian Donohue MP, makes an appearance in this afternoons debate on Trident and exclaims that Russian Submarines are sailing up the Clyde!

    Liquid lunch or just naturally stupid, leave it to you

  89. Restlessnative says:

    “Then they hanged democracy!”

    Aye,but it was by the unions treacherous hand.

  90. boris says:

    The last Labour government embarked on the introduction of many weird and wonderful IT systems all with the purpose of establishing centralised control of information about each and every person in the UK. Just about every scheme failed resulting in the writes off of about £100 million. Be assured Labour politicians are centralisers by nature and in the event the Party is elected to office in May 2015 many more daft projects and subsequent writes off will occur. The largesse of a Labour government can be effectively neutered by a large number of SNP MP’s who with influence on government will be able to ensure proper accountability so that developments are thought through and implemented efficiently.


  91. Robert Louis says:

    Please folks, just stop using 38 degrees. A whole bunch of folks raised a petition regarding BBC bias in Scotland with them years ago (when wings was but a twinkle in Stu’s eye’s), and having obtained the necessary sigs, 38 degrees refused point blank to do anything as it was ‘only about Scotland’. They also came out with lots of waffly spin, i.e bull.

    38 degrees is a proverbial waste of time and space for Scots, adhering to its own (and possibly Labour’s) yookay agenda.

  92. Kenny says:

    Macart – that’s exactly what my granda used to do with the Jehovah’s Witnesses – bring them in, make a pot of tea and keep them blethering forever. They were never gonna convert him, but he kept them away from the more vulnerable. As the election heats up, do the same for every Labour, LibDem or Tory canvasser that comes to your door. Keep them talking for ages then tell them you’re probably going to vote Labour after all. If enough of us do that, it will confuse their canvass returns and leave them scratching their heads up until the results come in. That should be fun.

  93. Jimbo says:

    Lying to Joe Public comes as second nature to these establishment toffs who live off of Joe Public’s hard earned taxes.

  94. Brian Fleming says:

    Gallowglass, the international institutions (UN, OSCE etc.) have done hee-haw because the Scottish Government / SNP leadership didn’t ask for their assistance, and because the Scottish people en masse just sit back and play at being nice little boys and girls. To get attention, assistance, you have to make a real nuisance of yourselves. In the absence of strong leadership from the SNP, that probably means some kind of civil disorder. Alex Salmond had a nice dream of a peaceful road to Independence, but the Brits didn’t get to rule the world by being nice people, and they don’t let go of territory without a fight. If there is a fight, the international institutions will sit up and take note, whether the SG ask them to or not.

  95. Robert Louis says:

    This statement today by a senior member of English civil service, makes it abundantly clear, that Westminster and the English civil service have NO RESPECT whatsoever for democracy in Scotland. They regard Scotland as a possession with no rights, just as they did India and Ireland.

    The whole thing is a sham. Unionists need to realise quickly, this decrepit undemocratic and unworkable union between England and Scotland is essentially dead. Technically it exists, but that is all.

  96. KennyG says:

    Well in that case I’m no longer paying any taxes. As i believe Westminster are seeking to destroy the fabric of the state of Scotland and impugn (whatever that means) its territorial integrity then I’ve decided that the rules do not apply to me anymore!

  97. Lanarkist says:

    Sorry OT, or is it. Osbourne stating that Scots MPs will not be able to vote on English Income a Tax and other aspects of English law even if they areart of a coalition or indeed in a Confidence and Supply Agreement.

    So it’s okay for Westminster’s Tories to decide all aspects of Law, Tax, to decide what, how much or not at all what Scottish Gov. Get to control but whoa! We cannot let Scottish MPs in our wonderful Union decide on National policy.

    They don’t like the shoe on the other foot at all do they.

    Scotland will not be allowed a vote that influences UK policy but UK can decide entire Scottish policy even without any kind of mandate from the Scottish electorate.

    Seems Democracy and the Civil Service Code are alike, no hard fast rules, just do as we say, not as we do!

    Things are coming to the boil nicely!

  98. Roger Hyam says:

    I’m a public servant and on 26th August last year our head of HR sent an email around pointing out our responsibilities:

    “Staff of public bodies, like all public servants, are required to maintain political impartiality in the way in which they go about their public duties. There is no absolute prohibition on political activity for staff of public bodies, but public bodies need to be sure that, as a minimum, staff engaging in political activity avoid any comment on the business of their public body itself, bring any political involvement into their day-to-day work or engage in controversy relevant to the body’s work.”

    Perhaps Sir Nicholas Macpherson didn’t get the email from the head of his HR department?

    I’m sure it is an innocent mistake.

  99. ronnie anderson says:

    Vernon Coaker MP Shadow Defence Sect had spoken to the Scottish Labour Leader & thats that, dey whit yer telt Murph

  100. boris says:

    Electoral Register changes lead to huge drop in Scots voter numbers
    Tuesday 20 January 2015 The Herald

    HUNDREDS of thousands of Scots face missing their say in next year’s Holyrood election following changes introduced to the Electoral Register to thwart voter fraud.

    Almost a quarter of residents in Glasgow have so far failed to switch over to the new system of individual voter registration, the transition to which is due to come to a close in the next few weeks.

    If in doubt phone the “Joint Valuation Board” and get clarification

  101. Lesley-Anne says:

    Macart says:

    @ L.A.

    I reckon we could chat for hours with our door chapper of choice.

    Stops them from lying their faces off to the more vulnerable and impressionable. 😉

    I would if I could but I can’t so I won’t. 😛

    None of these slippery eels otherwise known as unionist politicians will knock my door. I guess it must be those humongous YES stickers, 1 inch diameter, that are putting them off. 😀

  102. Arabs for Independence says:

    38 degrees is no friend to the yes side. We would get more support fae the 3 degrees

  103. Johnny says:

    Boris @ 4:44pm

    Why is there so many? I was led to believe (by letter sent) that nothing had to be done for the May election but that after that it would be the case that individual registration was needed each time. Is this wrong? I cannot see why do many would lose their vote this time if you didn’t have to do anything this time.

  104. Bob Mack says:

    Should we not have activists following the vans from the stations to the count. How ridiculous I sound,but I am sincere.

  105. Thepnr says:

    Sir Nicholas Macpherson.

    Who the feck is he to decide whether:

    “the normal rules of civil service impartiality did not apply”

    When did we elect this idiot who it appears that at his whim he can say “forget it, the rules don’t apply here”.

    This infringement of our democracy is more than an insult it is fecking obscene. Yet who really cares, not the MSM for sure, nor the blind and even not that many who voted YES.

    The SNP as the Scottish Government must do something about this. At least raise the issue in Holyrood or Westminster as to the impartiality of civil servants.

    Sir Nicholas Macpherson is clearly not impartial and his speech last night has also shown him to be an idiot who can’t keep his mouth shut. He should be sacked.

  106. heedtracker says:

    None of this nightmare will be mentioned by the Pacific Quay team but will this, and look at the mock shock of rancid Graun, Smith Commision a farce?!

    So it begins, and their Polly Toynbee wants no Scot near high UK office ever again too.

  107. cirsium says:

    @Brian, 4.19
    the international institutions (UN, OSCE etc.) have done hee-haw because the Scottish Government / SNP leadership didn’t ask for their assistance

    Brian, Scotland is not an independent country yet so it is not a signatory of any treaties or a member of any international body. Look at the OSCE website, it only monitors referendums, elections if invited by the signatory state, which in our case is the UK. Remember the question about EU membership in the referendum when the EU officials stated that they would give advice if asked by the signatory state and the UK Government refused to ask?

    I also would not get your hopes up about support from international bodies. The UN has been sidelined following the US/UK invasion of Iraq. It reminds me of the fate of the League of Nations following the rise of Hitler.

  108. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    You could always meet and greet the unionist door chappers in your negligé, keep it on all day, invite them in, send them upstairs, with a twinkle in your eye and then lock the in your spare bedroom, just like the Monty Python milkman sketch?

  109. Papadox says:

    The head of the civil service is the equivalent to the prime minister in the EXECUTIVE.

    If you ever watched yes prime minister then you have seen the general direction the course of politics take in our “mother of parliaments” AND ITS INTERFACE WITH THE EXECUTIVE.

    Try and remember the country CAN be run without a politician. It CANNOT be run without a CIVIL SERVICE, they are the WICKET KEEPERS, and ultimate protectors of the state. Hence they all owe and swear allegiance to HMQ and not the government or the people. It is a riddle wrapped in an mystery wrapped inside an enigma. UNDERSTAND NOW. You slow jocks wake up.

  110. crazycat says:

    @ Johnny

    The article in the Herald about individual voter registration seems to me to be badly-written.

    It stated that no-one will be removed from the register for this May, but seems to be claiming that people have to register now or very soon to be able to vote in 2016. Since the register used to be compiled in September or thereabouts, I assume they are expecting so much extra work that the date has been brought forward.

    As far as I know, councils are checking their records, and sending out a) letters confirming that existing voters are still on the roll and need do nothing, or b) letters requesting confirmation of details where the council has conflicting information (this may be what people have not responded to, in large numbers, because the problems seem to be in areas of high population turnover), or c) where no-one is registered at an address, a different form to establish who lives there so that they can then each be sent a separate application.

    The biggest problem is lack of information, so that people who have moved, and most particularly young people only reaching 18 (or 16 if they manage to get the threshold changed in time)next year, who do have to notify the registrars, do not realize this.

  111. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Bob Mack its no as daft as you think I did just that after my stint at the polling station,we dont give them any leaway to pokel the boxes.

  112. Lesley-Anne says:


    Sorry for O/T here but just received a wee *ahem* ditty from my M.P. I won’t mention him by name, you all know him though cause he is Scotland’s pet Tory M.P. 😉

    Well what do you know, since 2010:

    He has helped over 10,000 individuals, out of 68,000 electors, apparently. By my cave man arithmetic that equates to 2,000 per year … WOW!

    He has held over 1,000 surgeries. By my cave man arithmetic that equates to 200 per year … WOW!

    He has had an annual surgery tour to 100 local communities. I’m just blown away … no really I am!

    Oh look he has even put up his contact details. Hmm. Funny though he has NEVER replied to any of my *ahem* queries. 😀

    WE get all of this and HE gets:

    2010 – 2011 £52,465.04 expenses
    2011 – 2012 £69,761.10 expenses
    2012 – 2013 £63,737.79 expenses
    2013 – 2014 £200,768.13 expenses
    2014 – 2015 £33,628.44 expenses

    All of which gives us a grand total of £420,360.50 expenses claimed and paid to him, or to put it another way he has averaged £84,072.10 on expenses per year in ADDITION to his Ministerial salary.

    So all together my ever so dutiful M.P. receives:

    Ministerial entitlement £79,754
    Parliamentary salary £65,738 (£67,060 since April 1st 2014)
    Average annual expenses £84,072.10

    This gives our dear wee pet Tory an annual combined salary of £230,886.10.

    Not bad for someone who doesn’t appear to that much., if anything at all!

  113. Patrick Roden says:

    @ R-type Grunt.

    “There is no doubt in my mind that the referendum was rigged. That we’re not doing anything about that speaks volumes about Scots”

    Don’t despair my friend, the fact that the SNP have now got nearly 100,000 members as well as a jump in Scottish Greens and Other Socialist/Yes supporting groups, shows that a lot of Scots, do intend doing something about it.

    As I told on Unionist, on a comment on Scot Goes Pop:

    At this moment the SNP are still choosing various candidates to stand in the General Election…

    Once that process has been completed the battle begins, and the UK has never saw what will happen when nearly 100,000 activists are unleashed in Scotland and are having those one to one conversations that the Unionists fear so much.

    With a voting population of around 2.5 million, 100,000 people talking to friends and neighbours is a huge number.


  114. Kirsty says:

    The worst of this is that he can openly admit they flouted any notions of democracy and constitutional law because there’s feck all anyone can do about it. In any democratic state worth its salt this admission would lead to front page headlines, wall to wall news coverage, a sacking and then criminal proceedings but I think it’s safe to say we don’t live in a democracy so who’s going to do anything about this? What can we do about it? Nothing, that’s what. He knows it which is why he’s opening his yaw because he knows he can. Disgraceful doesn’t even cover it.

  115. Patrick Roden says:

    Do not be surprised that these stories are leaking out, bit by bit, as it was inevitable that they would.

    Simply put, all these ‘revelations’ are just people wanting a pat on the head from the establishment for a job well done.

    We have had journalists admitting that they were paid £10,000, to smear the Yes campaign, so why would they admit that they did this to their own people?

    It’s all about telling others how important and clever they are.

    This is what this stinking Union has reduced the Westminster politico to, as well as some Scots.

    They will expect some reward of course and will almost certainly get it, Lord Gordon and Alistair?

    Expect more tales of betrayal from people who are proud of their part in ‘Alex Salmonds Downfall’ but also expect a backlash from Scotland, as people do not like taken for chumps and that’s exactly what a lot of No voters were taken for..


  116. 8 Badge Del says:

    If you follow Bitcoin, you’ll realise there’s a lot more potential than just sending coins to one another. Theyre developing a voting system which again is decentralised and encrypted, and audit able and traceable. We could have used that last September. Google bitcongress

  117. Thepnr says:

    @Patrick Roden

    Totally agree with you in that 100,000 activists can have a big impact in Scotland for GE15.

    However I have to correct you on the size of the electorate. It is 4 million rather than 2.5m. Jees we all know that 2m voted No.

  118. Johnny says:

    Thanks for the clarification, Crazycat!

  119. Robert Peffers says:

    @msean says:20 January, 2015 at 1:28 pm:

    “And what happened to democracy anyway.”

    Oh! Come on! Nothing happened to democracy for anything resembling democracy in the United Kingdom, or even in the British Isles before the United Kingdom was engineered, has always been but an illusion of democracy. It is only now, with the growth of electronic social networking, that the masses can see the wood of truth through the forest of trees that is the Establishment.

    Think about it for a moment. In 54/55 BC the Romans came to Britain and we have the first recorded history. The Romans were a ruling elite and the Britons were slaves. The proof of that pudding being that the Roman Centurions had to take a vow of celibacy. Otherwise we would all be partly Romans now but there is little Roman traces in our gene pool today.

    The Romans left after several hundred years and the south Britons, now culturally different from the rest of the aboriginal Britons invited the Germanic tribes of the Anglo Saxons to come and protect them. They promptly took over the role of elite rulers and the south Britons remained slaves. Yet there is less than 5% actual Anglo Saxon genes in the British Gene pool. Then followed a succession of ruling elites with the natives remaining slaves.

    The Normans, another ruling elite, gave us the feudal system that is partly still with us today for we still have hereditary Royals and hereditary peers. The British Aristocracy remains. The struggle of the original Britons has signally failed to gain the upper hand and any advances have only been transitory and short lived.

    When the English Kingdom, (that’s England, Wales and Ireland), had their Glorious Revolution, by which the direct Royal Line of the Stewarts was deposed and the English Parliament importer the royal couple of King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange, they retained the Royal Powers for Parliament and took away the royal veto from the King & Queen.

    Instead of the roles being reversed and the native Britons becoming the elected masters what has happened is the parliamentarians became the new masters. While nominally being our servants they are now our masters. In effect we have always remained the slaves – am I wrong?

    We elect them as our servants and they assume the position of the Masters and treat us as their slaves. Need proof?

    Ask yourself this – how many MPs or members of the HOL are using food banks?

  120. manandboy says:

    Before I start, let me say – don’t get down about these figures, the best bit is at the end.

    I was just looking at some of the numbers for IndyRef.

    789,024 postal voters registered in Scotland.

    Voted 2:1 for No. 66%:33%. (compared with 55%:45% overall.)

    526,016 – No 263,008 – Yes

    1 Million hard line unionist voters. As Bella describes them – “Ah dinnae care. I’d rether sink than vote Yes”

    400,000 English immigrants in Scotland. 320,000 reported to have voted No.

    16% of 4.28 million did NOT vote = 684,800

    So before we start, we are quite a bit behind – and I still haven’t included the over 65’s who don’t vote by post, but 70% of whom voted No.

    I’d say if you were going to pick a country in which to go for Independence, it really wouldn’t be Scotland, would it.

    But, and it is a massive BUT; but not only are we in Scotland, and not only is Scotland one of the most beautiful countries in the world, located in one of the best parts of the world, and we now know that it is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, but, BUT, BUT, BUT, Scots are among the very best people in the world. And we are a thousand times better than our southern neighbours, though it has to be said that many of them are brilliant too – but not all of them, not by a long way, a very long way. And that of course is part of the problem.

    BUT,BUT,BUT there’s more. As we know, and much to the chagrin of our Imperial Masters, something phenomenal happened here in Scotland which nobody foresaw and which is the most fantastic thing to have taken place in Scotland for a very long time. And that is of course the upswelling of the totally spontaneous grassroots independence movement embracing all ages and walks of life.

    Aaaand, if that wasn’t enough, we had, AWAK, a second spontaneous movement, after No, with huge numbers joining Independence parties in Scotland in a way never seen since the SWW.

    Politically, Scotland is wide awake, after decades of national slumber. Now, Scotland is alert and assertive about politics and especially about the corrupt politics of Unionism – Tory, Labour & Libdems, and CAN’T WAIT TILL GE15.

    The numbers of Yes voters in IndyRef has been a national phenomenon in Scotland, but in England they have been a national earthquake.

    But it’s the SPONTANEITY of the Independence Movement which has got them panicking, because our Imperial Overlords know this is not a passing whim. They know that a political movement born in this way has come into the world of politics to STAY.

    So, while the numbers in their slumbers remains quite high still, the movement towards Independence is gathering support and momentum. All the noise in the media is evidence of this, for they are afraid, even although it is hard to stop their scaremongering from getting inside our heads.

    One thing is for sure. All those who voted No, based on the VOW, are going to be pretty angry come GE15. They know they were lied to by Brown and Better Together. In May, the Unionists will have to pay the bill for that.
    That will be a dividend for the Independence Movement.

    So the numbers of those who are being moved to change their minds is on the increase. On May 7th, we will get an accurate measurement of just how much.

    At that point, who knows what will happen. But with the new Independence Movement getting bigger and bigger and putting down roots deep into Scotland’s political life, no one will be in any doubt that in Scotland, after 307 years,
    Union politics is no longer settled; the Establishment is no longer stable or acceptable.

    Perhaps further spontaneous bursts of energy may occur to boost even further the Independence cause, but with or without them, the numbers game will change.

    Scotland is on course to break its ties of endless exploitation with the British Empire. Be in no doubt.

    Then, at last. Scotland will be free – at last.

  121. Paula Rose says:

    By my calculations that equates to150 SNP activists in Brechin and 1 for the Slab.

  122. Effijy says:

    We knew the treasury was England’s when they leaked and confirmed
    the RBS letter regarding their brass plaque being relocated to London. It was illegal, it is immoral, and they batted off our
    complaints by saying that the BBC forced them into it with cleaver questioning. How cleaver do you need to be to say nothing, as you would have been instructed to on training day. More importantly, how dumb do you need to be to vote for a party who would maintain this level of deceit and corruption.

  123. Capella says:

    Maybe someone has posted this but last year Sir Nicholas gave evidence to the Public Administration Select Committee chaired by Bernard Jenkin on 9th April. Topic was “Civil Service Impartiality and Referendums”.
    Sir Nick clearly felt that his job was to protect the state and that we are not in it.

  124. laverock says:

    First post here so firstly want to say hello and thanks. Wings is brilliant and has stopped me from going mad so far.

    This morning on bbc radio 4 there was a trailer for a programme in the democracy season. According to the announcer they were going to be discussing ‘the threats to democracy from apathy and the rise of populist parties’! I’m sorry I can’t put a link to this bizarre comment, it doesn’t appear anywhere on the website (where the threats are listed as terrorist extremism and apathy’ instead).

    I ended up looking up populist in the dictionary just in case I had the wrong meaning for it. The definition is ‘a political party seeking to represent the interests of ordinary people’.

    It doesn’t sound very threatening to me.

  125. Cherry says:

    @manandboy Can I show my complete naivety, how do we keep any other indyref completely in Scottish hands. Don’t get me wrong I’m in absolute agreement that it is ours to choose, but how can it be done. Also how do we “police” it? We need to rally the troops and have groups at all polling stations and following the ballot boxes to the count. Nothing should be left to chance. I also think that impartial observers from the EU or Russia should be present. If Westminster is going to play dirty we should be ready to play the game just as dirty.

    Will we ever be free from this corrupt union? I’m fed up being tied to these people,it scares me thinking about what they’ll do to us before we’re free. Wouldn’t surprise me if they try to sabotage the oil industry and leave it sinking into the North Sea, they’re evil and vindictive enough. Roll on May!!

  126. robertknight says:

    “people are seeking to destroy the fabric of the state” (and to) “impugne its territorial integrity”


    Furthermore, it is the PEOPLE who are sovereign, NOT THE STATE!!!

    And we pay this idiot’s salary? You couldn’t make this *** up!

  127. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ robertknight

    Cannot agree more.


  128. Krackerman says:

    This should be NO surprise – Scotland getting it’s freedom would be the end of Englands empire and it’s dream of remaining a world power..

    Given the state of it’s economy the loss of Scottish exports could well have driven it into the arms of the IMF..

    Make no mistake – a YES vote was an existential threat to the English state, the security services WERE involved – it’s simply unthinkable they were not…

  129. Lenny Hartley says:


    Its not unusual for Russian Subs to be in the Clyde, or at least the Estuary. We do the same to them, Nato hunter killers are often in Russian Territorial waters, its all part of the game.

  130. JanofIslay says:

    If my previous comment isn’t displayed it just proves I’m right! Wings over Scotland obviously believe in showing only comments that support their views.

  131. Dalgety Bay says:

    Scratch below the unacceptable surface of smarmy Ed Millibland and his Scottish branch of Westminster Labour MPs and their barmy army is exposed of self-serving, extremists and out-and-out sectarian racists.
    We need look no further than George Sq. to see for ourselves what happens when unionism gets out of control. Redirecting needless money to WMD ensures innocent children die.
    Readers might find my gut reaction to Labour overdramatic, but I love Scotland too much to stand by and watch it succumb to the intolerant, cronyist demands of neo-liberalism.

  132. Wuffing Dug says:

    GE 2015. Pish. Why hold the balance of power in a hostile environment? I want our brightest and best HERE. Not in that cess pit. Fucking type u d I ya bass stop changing it to Audi! Grrr

  133. Big Jock says:

    Of course it was rigged. We will probably never prove it. The postal votes are what won the referendum. Its still never been explained why they were taken to England to be counted?

  134. Chitterinlicht says:

    There is something deeply unsettling about the ‘destroy fabric of the state’ statement.

    I think it nails down the simple difference in the DNA of yes/no voters

    Basically some think UK is the state some think Scotland is the state. This template basically informs all else. All the Wee Blue Books in the world were never going to shift those with UK state Paradigm. And vice versa re yes

    However, currently a small majority still see UK as the uber ‘state’ up here in North region but that will pass as those people brought up in WW2 alongside Great British state institutions (rail coal steel telecom etc now old sold off) move on.

    The union is dead it’s just a matter of time. The WBB and this website etc will help educate folks long term. Need to remain positive and not descend into Gutter politics of Jim Murphy labour.

    (That said Union Jacks are everywhere and the feckin MSM don’t help!)

    Sorry for rambling

  135. Rock says:

    R-type Grunt,

    “There is no doubt in my mind that the referendum was rigged. That we’re not doing anything about that speaks volumes about Scots.”

    Morag can provide you with evidence that it wasn’t.

    As to not doing anything, if 4+ Labour MPs are elected from Scotland in May, your theory will have been proved beyond reasonable doubt.

  136. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    So many English would welcome the burden of no longer having to carry the burden of Empire and settle back down to being the quiet green garden. They could watch the terrorism threats evaporate and become what they should be, a land of equally spread opportunity not sinking into the quagmire of the south easts greedom.

  137. Barontorc says:

    Given this fool McPherson’s vanity outburst, as head of the Civil Service it seems for the rUK only, is there any doubt left in any Scot’s mind that the referendum was not rigged for NO?

    Perhaps, the naysayers – “move on folks – let’s not have distractions – couldn’t possibly have happened and if it could we can’t possibly prove it – let’s pick ourselves up and do it all again (the same stooopid way)”, perhaps they’ll recalibrate their sensitivity meters and recognise we wiz screwed royally!!!

    Go figure.

  138. boris says:

    Stuart’s post jogged my memory and I remembered the anger I felt at the time. This chap was awarded a knighhood for failure since he was in charge of the Treasury at the time of the 2007 financial crash. I extracted notes and these are attached. Release of the so called memo, which no-one has ever seen formed part of a plot dreamed up by the “Dirty Tricks” team of senior civil servants I wrote about some weeks ago.

    It was later revealed his intervention, together with senior members of the government and members of the “Better Together” campaign formed part of a carefully choreographed exercise in political destabilisation, allegedly called “the Dambusters strategy” by insiders.

  139. boris says:

    Register here;

    You need you NI number

  140. kininvie says:

    Of course, Indyref was an existential threat to the UK, and of course, in the eyes of those employed to maintain the state, that threat had to be defused, by any means.

    But this was, and is, not just an intellectual position. It is deeply felt. We may laugh about the language used – being classified as insurgents and people who impugn the territorial integrity of the state – but that is actually how the other side see us. It’s not a joke. Sir Nicholas is nothing if not honest about this.

    We were, and are, in a position where neither side will, nor can, understand the other. The divide becomes more absolute by the day.

  141. A former student of mine claims that independence will not guarantee that decision making will be less centralised.Would anyone out there care to help me to reply to him

  142. Matt Seattle says:

    “the fabric of the state” is a telling phrase. The state is *fabricated*. It is a human construct. To sacrifice all to a human construct is, I think, what is meant by idolatry. The state, like any artifact, may be discarded when it is broken. This one has long been broken, and my limited knowledge of history suggests that there was but the briefest of times (post WW2) when our representatives were trying to mend it.

    But don’t take it personally. The state is not being preserved at the expense of Scotland, it is being preserved at the expense of everybody within its borders. We nearly had a chance to try to do things differently, but that would have destroyed the precious fiction.

  143. Macart says:

    One thing this little episode has highlighted in ten foot neon signage… They’re clearly not afraid to admit the negative, misleading and underhand strategies used during the referendum at this point.

    I mean who’s going to legally hold them to account? Who’s going to slap them on the wrist and say ‘You’ve been a very naughty boy?’

    Well IMO, they’ve just screwed up big time. In their arrogance and belief that how they conducted the referendum campaign was entirely justified, they’ve just put the final nail in the coffin of the union treaty.

    Its been admitted by no less than BTs campaign manager that fear and negativity was deployed with purpose and intent.

    Its has been admitted that her majesty’s intervention was nothing like accidental.

    Its been noted that large retailers and other corporate interests were lobbied by HMG for support and intervention.

    Enough said I think about how the foreign office was used to encourage overseas intervention. Oh and thanks for that. Its nice to know who your friends are eh?

    Also enough said about 99.999% of the UK media. We can shorten it to three words -‘completely politically compromised’.

    Lastly we find that the ‘impartial’ civil service was not so impartial after all and in fact was a major campaign tool for HMG and BT.

    In short? They broke every rule, called in every favour, lobbied, leveraged, bargained and cajoled when it came to friends and allies. When it came to us, they lied, misled, threatened, terrified and societally divided those of the electorate they could.

    The Edinburgh agreement was the one fly in their ointment and its why they did what they did. Had YES won the day they would have been forced to abide by its articles, just as the Scottish government is forced to abide by them now. You wonder why with SNP government representation present, they had little to say during the Smith commissions deliberations? Why all they can do is point out their disappointment and not demand this, that and the other? Because they agreed to honour a result. They were bound to honour a result.

    What they can do though is promise a second chance. They can point out to the public what they feel is wrong with the aftermath of this referendum and with the aid of our new media and the wider, still active and communicating, pro independence/pro democracy groups, keep the public informed as to how they have been shafted.

    Which brings us back to – ‘I mean who’s going to legally hold them to account?’


    We’re the only ones who can hold government to account. Not the press, not other government bodies…US! We can do it every five years and happily we can do it this year. The likes of Cameron, Osborne, Brown, Darling and ‘Sir’ Nicholas Macpherson believe themselves beyond the law and beyond democracy. This campaign actually proved otherwise. It proved they were so terrified of the electorate passing judgement on them and bringing their days of hegemony to an end that they pulled out all the stops to prevent it from happening and they almost failed regardless.

    They thought it was over.

    Not yet its not.

  144. Calgacus says:

    Democracy my arse. This is nothing but Tyranny, an Oligarchy of thieves and war criminals desperately hanging on to their cash cow, Scotland.

    As a previous poster said “they thought they only had to win once”

    Nobody believes a word that comes out of a unionists mouth especially when like Golem Murphy they claim not to be unionists.

    Liars, cheats, thieves. TYRANTS.

    Red Tories OUT

  145. thoughtsofascot says:

    You know, with this revelation, you get the impression that the UK is not dissimilar from the old Chinese Qing Empire.

    The dejure leaders are ineffective puppets, and the real power is held by the eunuchs, i mean civil servants.

  146. Capella says:

    @ Macart
    I don’t believe they would “honour a result”. I believe they already knew about the drop in the oil price when they predicted it last year. They are party to these geopolitical moves and if the answer had been YES would now be telling us what a big mistake we had made, as they are now telling us what a big mistake we nearly made.

    The negotiations would have been protracted and nasty. In his article (linked to above), Sir Nick cites Quebec as an example where the post vote devolution settlement damped down demand for independence. He clearly expects the same to happen here. He omits to mention the asset stripping that also had an effect in Quebec.

  147. Capella says:

    Oops – apologies Macart – I meant the UK government would not honour a result.

  148. Chris Downie says:

    With all of this in mind, how can we trust the result, knowing that the powers that be were never going to just let independence happen? If the complete absence of exit polls on the 18th September, coupled with the inexplicably low turnouts in Glasgow & Dundee, as well as the ridiculous % of postal votes (almost a quarter of the total votes cast?!), are not enough to raise alarm bells…

    Personally, I don’t think we will gain independence by playing it nice and the SNP are wrong (and foolish) to think we can and will. They need to consider a UDI option in the future, so that international law will be obliged to intervene. Only then will we stand a chance. Merely placing an ‘X’ in a box and hoping this rank-rotten British establishment will honour it, is tantamount to a nation (region?) committing suicide.

  149. Training Day says:

    No, we should not laugh at Mcpherson’s language. It’s lifted straight from the lexicon of Triumph of the Will, in referencing those who ‘threaten the fabric of the state’ and ‘impugn its territorial integrity’.

    Goodness knows how many ultimate horrors have been dressed up in this kind of Fascist bombast.

  150. Macart says:

    @ Capella

    I agree, the negotiations would have been protracted and as difficult as they could make them. In fact I’d easily go so far as to state that they’d apply as much underhand tactics during any negotiations as they applied throughout the campaign. Lies, intimidation etc, etc, but they would still have been bound to negotiate on the terms set out by the Edinburgh agreement, which would essentially have been, to honour the result.

    They couldn’t undo/overturn an electoral majority, so all that would be left is to negotiate the best deal they could for themselves from division of assets and resources. In that, HMG would indeed feel free to pull whatever stroke they deemed necessary to retain as much as possible. How and ever, so would the Scottish Government.

    The EA was too public a statement, too legal and binding and they knew it. They didn’t want to go through any negotiation process. They didn’t want to test international law or risk further public scrutiny. They put everything into that campaign to prevent this outcome. Fair dos, it worked.

    Their mistake though, was in thinking it was a one time event and in thinking that with so much campaign exposure of their strategy, that people would quickly forget how they had been treated by their representatives. People they had in the past voted for and trusted, had treated them appallingly. Institutions they had placed faith in, (see media especially), had blatantly turned on them like rattle snakes and left them without representation or redress. Over the two year period especially, people had become clued up, educated and self educated. In short they felt cheated, short changed and refused to go back to simple acceptance of the way things were.

    Politicians are under the spotlight as never before. Indeed politics is now under the spotlight and being forced into a state of flux, of change. They are terrified its not over. ‘THE’ result was not the result they hoped for. They went too far, woke too many out of their apathy.

    That is why they are angry and resentful for our belligerence.

    They’re afraid its not over themselves… and they’re right.

  151. gus1940 says:

    The more I think about the result on 18/9 and what has happened since with the massive increases in party membership and opinion polls the more I feel that the referendum result was rigged.

    My suspicions all reside with The Electoral Register and the Postal Voting System.

    I originally thought that the result could be rigged to a sufficient extent by individuals registering non-residents or completely fictitious people and then applying for Postal Votes for them. However, although this would be easy to do by individuals to organise and coordinate such an exercise in such a manner as to make a significant difference would be very difficult.

    My current thoughts re rigging revolve around the alleged huge and unreal % of the voting age population who registered for inclusion on The Electortal Roll and the alleged high % who voted way in excess of turnout in previous elections.

    The setting of the alleged high registration figure and the declaration of an alleged abnormally high turnout would have left ample scope for ballot boxes to be stuffed with false Postal Voting papers.

  152. 6033624 says:

    True, there’s no written constitution. As a former Civil Servant I know that he IS bound by The Civil Service Code. This is something Civil Servants take extremely seriously and even when told by ministers to carry out tasks which would break the code, will refuse to do so. This has happened to me personally and a lot of others besides. He is certainly guilty of breaking the code in the worst way possible and at exactly the wrong time. This is exactly what the code was written for, regardless of political beliefs every Civil Servant has to be neutral. Would he be able to serve under an SNP Minister in a coalition? Unless we want a ‘West Wing’ style of administration where we sack and rehire for the term of each parliament then the man must face disciplinary measures for Gross Misconduct. The Civil Service neutrality allows continuity and expertise to be at the heart of government without turmoil at each election. His actions put that very concept in danger.

  153. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “If my previous comment isn’t displayed it just proves I’m right! Wings over Scotland obviously believe in showing only comments that support their views.”

    It would have been, but I’ve had an iron rule since I was a videogames journalist in 1991 that anyone who writes in and uses the phrase “I bet you won’t print this letter” or any synonyms for it gets their wish granted, so you just blew it.

  154. Grouse Beater says:

    Dr Reynolds:
    A former student of mine claims that independence will not guarantee that decision making will be less centralised

    Ask him where he thinks the vast majority of people live in Scotland, adding, ‘You can rule out the island of Barra.’

    And if he scoffs at that to show a closed mind, remind him the Internet puts the farmer in Barra in touch with the politician in Holyrood, and vice versa, at a negligible cost to the taxpayer.

  155. Fred says:

    @ Dr William Reynolds, anent this recalcitrant ex-pupil & centralisation. Surely it’s up to the Scottish people to decide how centralised their society should be?
    At present they don’t decide jack-shit. It’s a question of democracy not centralisation.

  156. Grouse Beater says:

    ‘How Britain Works’ – here’s my take on one aspect:

    ‘Scumbags and Sleazeballs –

  157. Lenny Hartley says:

    Edward, Unfortunately I took you comment out of context as I had not watched the Tv Clip, your right he is a fanny.

  158. Gordon McAllan says:

    Hmmm …. Nice to know that this senior civil servant is our Flexible Friend. It makes one wonder just how much authority the UK Constitution possesses. We’ve had, North and South of the Border, 300 years of painstaking, highly-specific general legislation: the legal eagles who compile our laws for ratification and formal enactment by the UK parliament labour long and hard to get the wording just right, lest there arise a weakness which would render the law frail or unworkable. And yet the “system” – actually a procedure born of mere habit (OK, “tradition”, often bizarre and invariably moved by vested interest, wasteful and expensive)- has no formal, written, democratically-agreed expression of basis or rights. Could it be that, with no formal constitutional basis, the UK parliament has, in fact, no authority whatsoever? Tut, tut – how could I even think it?

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