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Chimp of the day

Posted on January 20, 2015 by

It is sometimes said, unkindly, that in parts of Scotland it would be possible to get a monkey elected as a Labour MP, so long as said monkey was wearing a red rosette.

Here, not entirely unrelatedly, is Brian Donohoe (Central Ayrshire), earlier today.

Um, just a couple of points.

The SNP’s bemused Angus MacNeil was quick to point out in the Commons chamber that if there are really, as Mr Donohoe appears to be claiming, “submarines coming from Russia going up the Clyde right now” – that is, at a time when the UK does have nuclear weapons – then perhaps it could be deduced that the “deterrent” effect was not necessarily quite as powerful as Mr Donohoe seems to feel.

A military tactician might further point out that Trident is in fact not an anti-submarine weapon, and if there’s a problem with Russian incursions off the Dumbarton shore it might be a good idea to spend the money currently used for Trident on some better conventional defences which could stand at least a chance of being able to engage in combat with such vessels.

If one were to be a pedantic hair-splitter it’s conceivable one would add that even if Trident were equipped to target small, mobile enemy forces – which it’s very much not – then detonating its warheads over submarines that were already in the Clyde might make for something of a Pyrrhic defence strategy, and would as a minimum be likely to precipitate a steep and sudden fall in house prices in Bearsden and Milngavie.

Jim Murphy has vowed to hold every one of Labour’s 40 seats in Scotland at the coming election. If this is what the people of Central Ayrshire will vote for, then as long as Murphy doesn’t run out of rosettes he’s going to be fine.

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    1. 20 01 15 17:21

      Chimp of the day | Politics Scotland | Scoop.it

    2. 20 01 15 18:47

      Chimp of the day - Speymouth

    3. 23 03 15 19:39

      The Devo Files: Brian Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) | A Wilderness of Peace

    216 to “Chimp of the day”

    1. mike says:

      Sadly, this joker is my MP. Hopefully the good people of central Ayrshire can remedy that in May.

    2. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      Maybe we should have a competition to see which Labour Gimp is the worst. I put forward my parents one. Step Forward “voting against constituents better interest” Jimmy Hood.

    3. Bill says:

      He’s my MP and a bloody useless one at that. We used to have a deterrent from Russian submarines sneaking around Faslane and that was anti-submarine equipped Sea Kings from HMS Gannet (Prestwick Airport). Flying about with dipping sonar and scaring the hell out of anyone on a boat near when they used it (the toilets used to go PING!). Of course they have all been scrapped and not replaced and the other use of HMS Gannet, the sensible use, of search and rescue is closing shortly as well, to be replaced with some despicable privatised nonsense based out of Glasgow and the money paid to some awful firm based in Texas last I heard.

    4. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      PS. The competition should run as Gimp of the Day. No spelling mistake made.

    5. Thepnr says:

      We are led to believe that those we elect as MPs to Westminster are the “cream of the crop”.

      There is no cream in Labour only sour milk.

    6. Steve Bowers says:

      Facepalm

    7. WifeyforIndy says:

      BD doesn’t see that one reason the subs come sniffing around is because of Trident. What Scotland does not have is any surveillance of her coastline or territorial waters (including fisheries and oil installations). A dirty bomb is not a useful form of defence! This man has been far too comfy in this seat! Now is the time to get him out!

    8. Grouse Beater says:

      So long as there are idiots who vote No to self-governance in the belief it is the intelligent choice, so long will they get the dimwitted, hair-brained MPs they deserve.

    9. Malky says:

      Plenty of strong SNP candidates to unseat this chimp – think Phillipa Whitford will be the one to take him on and overturn his 12,000 (?) majority.

    10. Jim Thomson says:

      It’s OK Stu, we have a bevy of fine SNP hopefuls undergoing selection right now. Any one of them could wipe the floor with young Mr Donohoe in debate.

      We are all waiting in anticipation for the first of the GE hustings to munch our popcorn :-;

    11. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Labour stupidity, the gift that goes on giving.

      Has this Scottish Labour chimp community, been dissociated from their London mentors and are now left to the governance of the alpha males of McTernan, Murphy and Blair whatsisname?

      Goodie.

    12. jimnarlene says:

      Whit an eejit.
      Nice hair splitting Rev.

    13. Mairi Hull says:

      Donohue had not a clue about the Russian sub that DId come up the Clyde last year when he attended a United with Labour meeting on Troon last year!

    14. Martin D says:

      Amazing how stupid they think the public is.

    15. Jim Thomson says:

      I agree with @Malky. Philippa is a strong – and extremely rational – candidate. https://whitford.scot

    16. Heather says:

      Knowing how much vows mean to Labour, and I believe we all do, and doubtless they’ll be true to their record on such vows, but should they actually mean anything will Jim Murphy resign if he does not hold every one of Labour’s seats? I mean, what’s a vow if you can’t stick to it, and surely there must be consequences for failing to keep said vow. Has he signalled what he will do if he fails to keep his promise?

    17. JamesS says:

      This man managed to turn a relatively no-friendly debate in Irvine into a cheering Yes fest. He was booed out the door.

      A genuine muppet.

    18. Swami Backverandah says:

      It’s not about the deterrent, support for Trident is about the contracts.
      And if you argue that money saved from Trident renewal could easily be deployed in equally beneficial contracts in other spending areas, or even in defence areas, then you’ve missed the point that it’s not about the spending, it’s about the nukes.
      And once you realise who that spending benefits, and how those contracts will not be easily set aside, you’re some way to realising how the corporate world works.

      So Jim has been sent to Scotland, not for the purposes of winning Labour votes for Westminster, although any they manage not to lose will be a bonus, but to assure that Scotland will not be in a position to request another vote for independence post 2016. Therein lies the battle.

      But if I continue in this vein, I run the risk of the anti-conspiracy theorists descending in all their Morag-like mockery, so I shall desist.

      In fact, I suggest Morag-like mockery is probably a more effective deterrent for 99% of sentient beings than any nuclear deterrent Balls, and his Bilderberg chums (yes, look it up) could ever envisage. In fact, it’s so effective,
      we should invest in it. I’m sure the money could run to an translation app into Russian. ;D

    19. Dr Ew says:

      An insult to monkeys.

    20. Angry Weegie says:

      Watched part of the debate earlier and was “fortunate” enough to hear the “honourable member’s” intervention. Unfortunately for Scotland, he is one of several Scottish Labour MPs who are similarly mentally challenged.

      Honourable member he may be, but if the member in question is a pr1ck, I’m not sure how much of a compliment that is.

    21. kirriereoch says:

      My palm is not quite big enough today to cover my face.

      Mr Brian Donohoe´s website is one to be treasured. As he recommends, I take in the content, examine it in detail and then come back another day and check it again.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taNsdOMM21M

      He is living up to his promise of keeping the tone as light as possible. Just perhaps not in the way he initially intended.

    22. Jimbo says:

      Doesn’t say much for Donohoe’s logic, if he thinks nuclear weapons in our own waters are a deterrent against Russian submarines in the Clyde and Russian tankers going over the top of Scotland. Does he think we should nuke them in or near Scotland? Or does he think we should nuke Russia as a warning not to send them here?

      If, as Donohoe claims, there are Russian submarines in the Clyde right now, what is the broad-shouldered Union doing about it?

    23. galamcennalath says:

      Glad he’s not my MP.

      Mind you, at least he turned up. I make it 27 in the chamber. Where were the 100s of other MPs?

      Clearly the topic of debate was of absolutely no consequence.

    24. Ravelin says:

      I thought Labour weren’t going to turn up to the debate? Maybe the quality of their MP’s contributions being as spectacularly awful as this vindicates that decision.

    25. Stoops says:

      If there are Russian submarines swimming up and down The Clyde, why the hell aren’t the Royal Navy doing something about it?

    26. Chic McGregor says:

      Now we know why he wouldn’t let that referendum debate be filmed.

    27. No no no...Yes says:

      Watched it live and just about choked on my coffee. Prize numpty.

      Pete Wishart on now, best I’ve ever seen him perform.

    28. Truth says:

      Being on my phone and not having watched the clip, these things are supposed to work like this:

      If the enemy sends subs into our territory, our nuclear weapons are not for attacking those subs, but for attacking their cities.

      Of course the flaw in that argument is that our nuclear arsenal as is and as planned could do virtually no damage to Russia whatsoever. Furthermore our capability does nothing the USA capability doesn’t do anyway. And since it is the US that would supply our launch codes anyway, or capability is totally irrelevant.

    29. Lollysmum says:

      And he & his cohort plan to become the next government & make decisions on behalf of the electorate?

      Is Scotland really that desperate to vote people like Donohoe back in? I sincerely hope not. If he had his way he’d be declaring war on Russia.

      L-A- I think the village idiot label is in danger of being passed on to a worthier recipient 🙂

    30. Ian Brotherhood says:

      For those who haven’t seen it, here’s Donohonohonohue’s tantalising ad for his own blog (NB 31 secs, where the cameraman appears to briefly keel over).

      Remember, ‘It’s good to be able to communicate with people in the modern age…’ right enough, but whatever you do, DON’T LOOK AT HIS EYES!!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taNsdOMM21M

    31. gerry parker says:

      Lots of labour MP’s (including my own) didn’t turn up for the debate and we are left wondering if they’re idiots or not.

      Mr Donohoe however did turn up, and confirmed that he is one.

      🙂

    32. Morag says:

      But if I continue in this vein, I run the risk of the anti-conspiracy theorists descending in all their Morag-like mockery, so I shall desist.

      In fact, I suggest Morag-like mockery is probably a more effective deterrent for 99% of sentient beings than any nuclear deterrent Balls, and his Bilderberg chums (yes, look it up) could ever envisage. In fact, it’s so effective,

      Why should I mock what you just said? You haven’t made any claims that fly in the face of the evidence. You’re being very unfair here.

      If you ask me, people making daft claims that are contradicted by actual evidence, and so opening themselves to mockery, do more to turn people away from reasonable suspicions than anything else.

    33. ronnie anderson says:

      The Russians were looking fur Nardini’s but their satnav broke, they would have bolted anyhow when they were told the charges for parking in the Clyde.Wiz Donahoe’s face no a pict ure awe rid n snarly Gggrrrrrrt

    34. r esquierdo says:

      Brian tallyho the labour man who has twice attended conservative conferences. The man is thicker than shite in the neck of a bottle

    35. Murray McCallum says:

      There is an axis of evil, powerful countries circulating the UK with the objective of stealing our world-class national debt.

    36. woosie says:

      Labour’s Madeleine Moon ( wasn’t she on one of those channels that start with a 9? ) now up in the commons, telling us we need nuclear weapons to defend “this green and pleasant land”.
      Another subliminal reminder that the UK is in fact England.

    37. heedtracker says:

      His Russian subs probably pull over for fish and chip suppers all round in Port Glasgow. This moron’s display is exactly where Slab are at doorknocking and always has been. Although people are probably no longer going oh ok then Mr MP, you know best.

    38. ronnie anderson says:

      And dont forget the other numpty for today Stewart other weapons stored for aircraft for Nuclear attack noo where do those aircraft land.

    39. donald anderson says:

      Thomas William Dunlop says:
      20 January, 2015 at 5:07 pm
      Maybe we should have a competition to see which Labour Gimp is the worst. I put forward my parents one. Step Forward “voting against constituents better interest” Jimmy Hood.

      I remember Jimmy Hood acquired a site in Lanarkshire for his London Bosses to dump their effluence. I think he was receiving £8000 per year for his services to London excrement.

    40. gillie says:

      Would it not be simpler to turn Faslane into a Russian naval base because it’s their aircraft carriers, ships and submarines that are actually patrolling Scottish waters.

    41. mogabee says:

      Swami

      Gie’s peace!

      Morag (another one)

    42. Graeme Doig says:

      Wondered how they were going to defend the indefensible. On to a winner there Mr Doknowshit. The good people of Central Ayrshire must be really proud.

    43. Grizzle McPuss says:

      A bit unfair to tag the primates with this example of human ineptitude, no?

    44. Jimbo says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      Looks like they stole the birly camerawork idea for Donohoe’s video from that wee, long haired guy, Neil somebody or other, who does the Anglified version of Scotland’s history.

    45. fred blogger says:

      russian subs are a real eyesore @ low tide, much worse imo than shopping trolleys.

    46. BJ says:

      My Lib MP turned up! Predictably he supports retaining Trident. Faslane and Coulport are in his ward!

      Just another grovelling trougher looking after himself. I have never voted for him but have had to put up with him for years.

      Hopefully his times up soon. According to the polls he will be toast in May

    47. BJ says:

      Labour’s Madeleine Moon ( wasn’t she on one of those channels that start with a 9? ) now up in the commons, telling us we need nuclear weapons to defend “this green and pleasant land”.
      Another subliminal reminder that the UK is in fact England.

      I think she is a Welsh MP?

    48. Kirsty says:

      I remember, years ago, listening to a comedian, of all things, who said that he wasn’t afraid of the rich and powerful or politicians but of the ordinary people who’ll happily go along with them, do their work for them and shout down anyone who complains or tries to do anything about it and in doing so make sure the rest of us are all screwed. I think this is a case in point; I have no idea why people still vote for people like this let alone put up with their hypocrisy and obvious self-interest especially since they’ve stopped even pretending that they work “for us”. Yet, they do. Even when you show them the documents or the footage they still shrug, say it’s boring or sigh and then continue on doing the same. It’s bewildering.

    49. hetty says:

      As may have been pointed out here, we in Scotland, could be forgiven for being a tad sceptical about any notion of being under the protection regards defence in any form, especially when the Westminster lot recently had to ‘beg’ the US for assistance in detecting potential Russian subs in Scottish waters. All because the broad shoulders of the uk simply does not extend to being able to protect Scotland due to lack of the kind of fast flying planes, I forget the name of, just not being available, due to lack of funds! Aye, better together gets more mythical by the day. Its a load of c**p.

    50. Bob Mack says:

      Agree with earlier post re Pete Wisharts speech.I am sure many south of the border will have taken notice

    51. Karmanaut says:

      Yeah, I watched that live and was astonished.
      Where do you even begin with such stupidity? It’s utterly irrational. Thinking that doesn’t even dip its toe into the waters of reason.

      I worry that these people are already in charge of things which affect other people.

    52. hetty says:

      Kirsty

      absolutely agree, its bewildering, but there are some who have seen the light and even some no voters saw a tiny chink of the light after the Indy Ref. Oh I am sounding all let there be light stuff now! A new renaissance is required, in Scotland it has started…

    53. Macart says:

      OFFS!

      And people wonder why I have a red forehead and dents in my wall.

    54. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah wish they would get this debate finished ma erse hiz the imprint of a chair on it,well done Mr Robertson & Crew entertaining day.

    55. WRH2 says:

      I heard a version of this argument during the Indy referendum but that time about what we would do without nuclear weapons if the Russian fleet sailed into the Moray Firth again to invade us. I did ask if the person asking the question thought we should nuk them. They wouldn’t be too keen to invade us after that right enough. Bunch of morons!

    56. yesindyref2 says:

      Not strictly true, Vangaurd does carry Spearfish which is a heavy torpedo for use against subs and surface ships.

      More to the point is that if Russian subs actually were up the Clyde, i.e. well inside the UK’s 12 nm territorial waters, it would be almost an invitation for the CASD to actually be used, and the sub could be sunk probably without warning.

    57. heedtracker says:

      Argentina is the only target these unionista Slab guys can really threaten with nukes like Trident but would this odd man really press the button and incinerate Buenos Aires? Yes they probably would after the horror of the Iraq invasion. A million civilian deaths in the middle east, world destabilising anarchy, IS, endless war on terror, nothings phased them at all.

      What their Scottish electorate thinks is entirely irrelevant to Slab or at least we have all the relevance of a parochial backwater region. Just listen a sneaky creep like Murphy explain he is ofcourse against Trident but only in multilateral disarmament and buying £100bn+ Trident 2 is the way to get multilateral etc. If we had a decent media these guys would be pelted with eggs every time they went outside.

    58. Swami Backverandah says:

      Hiya Morag. haven’t seen you around for a bit.
      (I get that 20 min delay thing which makes rapid response impossible, but if I’m directly addressed, I do try to respond. Also, to any other commenters who I might have missed, I sometimes don’t have the time to read all threads, and may miss comments, so I hope I haven’t offended anyone if I’ve missed yours. None was intended.)

      Maybe I was a bit unfair, I rather see it as a bit cheeky, hence the wink …

      I would like to agree with you on the ‘people making daft claims’ bit, and I do, when there is incontravertible evidence that has been found to be reliable, but it’s a bit more complex than that.
      At the risk of going OT and having the Wrath of Host descend, this question of ‘evidence’, is not such an easy one.
      For instance, people who have evidence of unsavoury dealings, collusions, or even criminality, may make what appear to be spurious claims or seemingly unfounded allegations because they are yet to have made the difficult decision of whether to bring such claims forward. They may want to, but threats against them may make them hesitant.
      You could argue that the law is there to protect the innocent, but you know I’m sure the many ways law is circumvented by parties intent on maintaining cover-up.
      It’s easy to cheer for evidence to be brought forward, but few are in a position to protect an evidence bearer from harm.
      So you see, I rather think that ordinary everyday readers who are not in a position to know whether a so-called conspiracy theorist has evidence or not would do better to encourage support for evidence bearers to find safe means to bring evidence forward,than run the risk, by casting doubt, of being an unwitting accessory to cover-up.

      Thanks for your response.

    59. Patrick Roden says:

      @ Kirsty,

      People tend to do one of two things:

      1. They run towards that which they like.

      2. They run away from that which they don’t like.

      The SNP have attracted a lot of type One, with their positive campaign, but were clearly trumped by the BT campaign, who scared Type Two enough to win.

      We need to start reaching out to Type Two’s but at the same time hold on to out Type One’s.
      This is difficult because as an official campaign it would mean arguing against yourself or seeming to be split, as one MP/MSP said one thing while another contradicted this message.

      It is my belief that as an official campaign the SNP should concentrate on type Ones, but activists should be armed with information about potential disasters on Scotlands West Coast if ANOTHER accident (Oh didn’t you know how many near misses there’s been and that Westminster drives big trucks with nuclear devises through Glasgow in storms, that they know makes it dangerous…of course as far as they are concerned it’s only Scotland..)

      That way we will start capturing the scaredy cats, that Labour have tended to consider their own.

      So get them scare stories, those secrets that Labour haven’t told people about and tell the people of our nation all about it, because one things for sure, the BBC/MSM wont tell them and if the SNP cant.

    60. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      “If this is what the people of Central Ayrshire will vote for, then as long as Murphy doesn’t run out of rosettes he’s going to be fine.”

      Donohoe will be shitting himself if has even the tiniest inkling of what’s coming his way. He’s truly fucking clueless if he thinks every former and current Labour voter in Ayrshire (or indeed anywhere else) are all warmongering dickheads like himself keen to waste 100 Billion on useless Weapons of Mass Destruction.

      Donohoe is already widely mocked in the commons as one of THE most stupid MP’s in westmisnter. Which is saying quite something. His huge majority will not save him or his enormous expenses claims come May if the SNP campaigning is anything like as determined as it was during the first Indyref. From what I hear there are some incredibly strong candidates for that area who will show up Donohoe for the dimwitted commons seat warmer that he is.

    61. Martin says:

      I heard Putin likes Scotland, his subs are probably cutting about trying to protect us…you know, cos Westminster isn’t interested.

    62. ronnie anderson says:

      Democrecy in action about 80 MPs took part in that Nuclear debate but the resturants and bars are being emptied for the vote.

    63. badgerboydarling says:

      At least the Russians turn up which is more than can be said for the brit scrap.

    64. Bob Sinclair says:

      Then / Alex
      Re the ‘cream of the crop’ Brian Donohoe (or should that be ‘Dontknowhow’ is obviously one of the clots that floated to the top.
      His statement is up there with setting your house on fire to prevent it being burnt down by arsonists.

    65. Dr Jim says:

      A big net, we could catch the Submarines then ransom them back to wee Vlad in an exchange deal for Haggis to help cut down on Russia’s Obesity problem, in turn saving our population from this terrible food that the Yanks don’t like, whilst condemning these actions from our MPs in the South and supporting the actions from our MSPs in the north
      Is that not what politics is all about? or is that Diplomacy?
      I’ll need to ask Dim Jim

    66. Effijy says:

      Yarrows has built a series of type 23 frigates, that are in the main submarine hunters.
      You may know them as the Duke Class Ships as they have names such as Duke of Argyll, Lancaster, Somerset, etc.
      Some of these ships are employed over in the Caribbean assisting in the capture of Drug Runners, but none of them patrol Scottish waters. Obviously prioritised the Drug problem in the USA above
      that of Russians sailing up the Clyde.
      Do Labour think their constituents came up the Clyde on a Banana Boat?

      If this Labour monkey knew where his nuts where, he would know how to stop Russian Subs without blowing Scotland off the face of the earth. However, that would teach us who is in charge.

    67. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      “Better to remain silent and thought of as a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt”.

    68. wullie says:

      labour sent in the cream of the crop to debate at the highest intellectual standard they did not want to humiliate the labour party.

    69. Karmanaut says:

      Brilliant, brilliant speech by Pete Wishart. I hope people see this.

    70. David Agnew says:

      My god – we already had trident the day that Russian battle fleet turned up. What we didn’t have was a maritime patrol service, AWACS, RAF overflights and more importantly any warning that it was on its way.

      Had the Russians wanted to do something, they could have knocked out our independent deterrent within an a few minutes of doing launching the attack. They had complete & total tactical surprise and could have KO’d the UK in detail.

      Don’t be fooled for a second into believing that the Russians didn’t take notes of this shameful incident, and started war gaming the outcome.

    71. Joemcg says:

      The shocking thing is I bet not one of us earns a fraction of this morons salary. Thats the sickener.

    72. Luigi says:

      Sigh, just when you begin to think that the Red Tories have finally hit rock bottom and that they can’t get any worse, when along comes another absolute stonker. They never cease to amaze.

      I don’t know who is the official village idiot at Westminster (there is serious competition, after all), but the chances are that person wears a red rosette.

    73. starlaw says:

      I hope Western Ferries have been warned about these Russian Subs. They are the nearest thing we have to counter such a threat, now if we could just have the Vital Spark back on patrol we could all sleep soundly in our beds.

    74. Lesley-Anne says:

      Regrettably I think you are right Lollysmum. 😀

      Here I am, long term keeper of the coveted title “Village Idiot”, and then suddenly out no where this upstart comes along! 😛

      Putting Russian visitors aside for a second what does this numptie have against Russian oil tankers sailing around the top of Scotland. How else are they supposed to get from Russia to make deliveries of Russian oil to their customers … oh I forgot they are supposed to sail around the BOTTOM of England otherwise known as the ENGLISH CHANNEL! 😀

      Any way back to Donohoe and his love of all things Russian. 😉 I was wondering, as he ,obviously, stood watching these Russian submarines sail up and down the Clyde did he, by the slightest of slight chances, happen to catch the name of any of the captains names from these submarines?

      I’m only asking out of curiosity you understand. Things like these are always useful if useless information to have. You never know when the Daily Politics show will ask a question about the names of a Russian submarine captain to sail the Clyde, in order to win a Daily Politics mug … GAWD I so want one of those mugs! 😛

    75. biggpolmont says:

      re who has the worst MP. I will play my trump and end all competition right here and now because none of you can compete with ERIC JOYCE. Not only as much use as a chocolate teapot but very expensive too.Thankfully his tenure is about to end.

    76. Tam Jardine says:

      Interesting debate, better I think because the folk who bothered to turn up were those interested in the debate.

      A few dissenting voices from labour, even one tory who spoke well against renewal. I laughed at Donohoe – and Angus scalping him after words (see the link). Crazy thing is he must have been thinking about what he was going to say for ages! I think it was his only intervention from what I saw.

      That big auld chamber is going to look very different after May (I hope).

      I just find it mind blowing that so few folk were there. 2 lib dems! They are paid handsomely to be there so I struggle to understand how there can be so few attend. Surely if you don’t actually follow a debate your view on whether the motion is valid or not cannot be fully formed. How can they just dink in at the end nd to vote? To vote for what? Pathetic.

    77. Clootie says:

      It’s a cunning trap! Nobody is THAT stupid.

      Brian Donohoe for shadow defence role 🙁

      If only we had long range patrol aircraft and fast patrol ships.
      Never mind we can always wipe a few million people of the face of the Earth if we want to.

      …maintain welfare and protect the NHS or a new Trident system…maintain welfare and protect the NHS or a new Trident system… such a difficult dilema – NOT.

      Labour supporters must be so proud of their leadership and representation.

      On the left and left of centre we have the Greens / SSP and SNP – A fairer society.

      On the right of centre we have the Tories, LibDems and Labour. The parties of austerity / welfare cuts / Nukes / Military force projection and foodbanks.

    78. yesindyref2 says:

      David Agnew
      Kuznetzov was tracked all the way from Murmansk, and didn’t enter Scottish Territorial waters, it was in international waters the whole time. A big carrier is not as hideable as a silent sub!

    79. Paula Rose says:

      Um – how does he know there are Russian subs in the Clyde?

    80. Peter Campbell says:

      See if the British Government are aware that Russian subs are sailing up the Clyde, what the hell are they doing about it? Surely an offensive object such as a submarine sailing in British (for the moment) waters, is an extremely aggressive act?

    81. biggpolmont says:

      I wonder if someone should remind Brian dontnohow of exactly how good these Subs are. and that is only as good as the navigation officer and he is only good if he doesn’t run them aground on a sandbank on the ships maiden voyage! anyone else remember that little episode?
      Man does that not make you proud to be brittish!
      The ruskie Captain would probably be heard on the tannoy
      we are about to surface you may line the decks and enjoy the view and boys your no gonna believe this but wait to see how good their detterent is .

    82. Chic McGregor says:

      Found that non filmed debate incident.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hON1otzI8o

    83. Robert Peffers says:

      @:Lollysmum says:20 January, 2015 at 5:40 pm:

      “L-A- I think the village idiot label is in danger of being passed on to a worthier recipient :-)”

      Nah! Lollysmum, it’s a different village and a different idiot, and let’s face it, every village is entitled to its own idiot.

    84. Dr Jim says:

      Re the worst MP
      I’ve got Jo(where’s the camera)Swinson…Deputy to the Deputy LibDum….
      Gotta be good marks for her…

    85. Dr Jim says:

      @Paula Rose
      From facebook, some kids eating their chips spotted them
      I believe they waved…

    86. HandandShrimp says:

      Um – how does he know there are Russian subs in the Clyde?

      He saw one when he sailed up the Clyde on his banana boat.

    87. Dr Jim says:

      @Starlaw
      Vital Spark..brilliant..

    88. KennyG says:

      Could they not just have a few of those wee submarines you see on treasure hunters and put a few torpedoes on them and save a few billion quid?

    89. yesindyref2 says:

      Paula Rose
      He probably read it in the DM.

    90. Mealer says:

      Mr Dakenfoo should really be in the other place.

    91. Schrödinger's cat says:

      detonating its warheads over submarines that were already in the Clyde might make for something of a Pyrrhic defence strategy, and would as a minimum be likely to precipitate a steep and sudden fall in house prices in Bearsden and Milngavie.

      Lol

    92. SquareHaggis says:

      Haven’t read all the posts so sorry if this has already been posted

      Trident Renewal Debate from Hansard

      http://tinyurl.com/lr9vd3u

    93. Paula Rose says:

      Might it not have been a trident that missed the turning?

    94. ramstam says:

      I counted over some hours no more than 30MP’s in the chamber yet 360 odd voted and defeated the motion. Easy money if you can get it. After May it wont be so easy to treat this vital subject with such disdain. Hope the National exposes the duplicitous Labour party. We are treated as a colony – Gibraltar, Falklands,Scotland.

    95. crazycat says:

      Ten years ago I was informed by Brian Donohoe that we needed a nuclear deterrent because he had been to China, and knew what the Chinese were up to. Did he mention them today?

    96. Braghadeanach says:

      Just watched ‘Reporting Scotland’ and not a single mention of this debate. Plenty on heath service and oil woes as usual

    97. Robert Peffers says:

      @Kirsty says:20 January, 2015 at 6:43 pm:

      ” … I have no idea why people still vote for people like this let alone put up with their hypocrisy and obvious self-interest especially since they’ve stopped even pretending that they work “for us”.”

      The answer to that, Kirsty, is that there are those who, upon a political matter coming on, just switch channels or who pick up a paper and turn to the back page or the ‘Celeb Scandal pages then forget to read, listen or view the news. They can tell you every change in the top twenty, every winner at the day’s horse races and the score in every football, rugby or other sport but who don’t know who their MP, MEP, MSP or councillor is.

      You will know them when they state, “I’m voting Labour/Tory/LibDem like ma faither/Grandfaither/Mither or Granny”. I’m sure you have met the type.

    98. HandandShrimp says:

      Labour voting with the Tories again. Don’t know why they don’t just merge.

    99. Fran says:

      The Labour comedy show rolls on, would these people actually be able to hold down a job in the real world ? the morons

    100. Lanarkist says:

      Labour and the TOries should just get a room!

    101. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lesley-Anne says: 20 January, 2015 at 7:35 pm:

      ” … You never know when the Daily Politics show will ask a question about the names of a Russian submarine captain to sail the Clyde, in order to win a Daily Politics mug … GAWD I so want one of those mugs! “

      What on earth would you do with Brian Donohoe , Lesley-Anne?

      Oh! wait – My mistake I thought you meant another kind of politics mug.

    102. bookie from hell says:

      Better Together campaign director @blairmcdougall has become @scottishlabour’s policy chief

      bfh—-Oh Naw project fear 11

    103. Lesley-Anne says:

      O.K. folks hands up all those whose M.P. could not be earsed to turn up to the Trident debate!

      Now hands up all those whose M.P. voted with the Tories holding their hand? (hands up thingy!) 😛

      Now hands up all those whose M.P. voted with the S.N.P. (hands up thingy!) 😀

    104. Kirsty says:

      Biggpolmont, Dr Jim,

      Re the Worst MP:

      Is there a shite MP poker game going on here?! I’ll see your Eric Joyce and Jo Swinson and raise you WILLIE ‘The Principle’ BAIN!! 😉

    105. caz-m says:

      Just watched that video of Donohoe, that Scottish Labour Party should have their own comedy channel.

      Brilliant.

    106. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just in case anyone was in any doubt about where Scotland stands these days Angus McNeil just tweeted this:

      A Tory MP has just referred to the parts of UK outwith Scotland as “the rest of England” !!!

      Glad we got that sorted out then! 😀

    107. yesindyref2 says:

      Our man in China.

      “The name’s Donohoe, Brian Donohoe, licenced to swill. Straight up with a twist”.

    108. One_Scot says:

      The wife went to Poundland. #accidentallyjoinedlabour

    109. caz-m says:

      And don’t forget they also ask some serious questions in the Scottish Parliament as well, like, where would the money for an Oil Fund come from.

    110. Robert Peffers says:

      @biggpolmont says: 20 January, 2015 at 7:39 pm:

      “re who has the worst MP. I will play my trump and end all competition right here and now because none of you can compete with ERIC JOYCE. Not only as much use as a chocolate teapot but very expensive too.Thankfully his tenure is about to end.

      Yer kidding! I’ve got Gordon Brown – not only does he go awol but on top of all that has his MP wages and expenses plus he gets the ex-PM and ex-chancellor pensions too.

    111. Hetty says:

      Maybe ‘reporting Scotland’ should be called, ‘not reporting Scotland’.
      Robert Peffers n Kirsty, you are both spot on, but there are some out there lost, I can say my brother in NE England is one such person feeling lost as to what to do,he knows the system is corrupt, he knows that we do not live in a democracy,but would still vote liebour.

      I am working on him to vote Green, at least, rather than not vote at all. People like my bro think that a vote for the Greens is a wasted vote, not realising that a liebour vote is turkeys voting for Xmas.

    112. Kirsty says:

      Patrick Roden,

      I totally agree with you but I think you’ve missed out the proportion of the electorate who simply don’t care that much either way and it’s quite a big section from what I’ve seen. You can’t reason with them or even talk about their likes or dislikes, what will help them or hinder them because they’ll just tell you they’re not interested or what you want to hear. They don’t really care about foodbanks, sanctions, wars, rental amounts, housing, fracking, jobs, etc. – unless it actively affects them. I’m starting to despair of those people because I’m seeing more and more that they’re the ones that actually vote in the governments. Scary.

      Robert Peffers,

      Aye, you’re spot on and yes, I’ve met tonnes of them which has scared me rigid! I think the old adage that a lot of us had drilled into us of ‘Never discuss politics or religion’ has a lot to answer for too – it’s made some people think it’s wrong or bad or boring to talk about politics. That, and a constant diet of X Factor, Strictly, etc. and having no power over anything anyway has led to a real malaise and disinterest with some people which hurts the rest of us.

    113. One_Scot says:

      Honestly never stole it, just great minds…

    114. scotspine says:

      @ Robert Peffers and Kirsty.

      They will continue to vote for Labour in “the heartlands” because the leader is Murphy who likes football and cuts about along the banks of the clyde in football kit – and he’s a patriot.

      Oh, by the way, is there any sign of the new Type 26 Frigate order for the Clyde yet? You know, the replacement for the Type 23 ANTI-SUBMARINE FRIGATES? Thats ANTI-SUBMARINE FRIGATES, the ones that are in all parts of the world chasing druggies or pirates and NOT ACTUALLY HUNTING SUBMARINES in the western approaches to the Clyde.

      You have to laugh. The YOO KAY (Kay without an E) build a multi billion carrier (second on the way), whilst committing to a multi billion stealth aircraft project for the carrier/s that is growing in cost and over due because of technical problems.

      We can’t afford to buy the original amount of aircraft required in any case.

      Top that off with all the escort vessels (Type 23’s) away chasing pirates and druggies, being de-comissioned or close to being de-commissioned and no new orders for their replacement.

      The Russians are cutting about our waters proving to the world that we are defenceless and that likely the carriers could be sunk with impunity as there are NO ANTI-SUBMARINE vessels in our waters.

      So what do our lords and masters do? Order some conventional ANTI-SUBMARINE vessels to plug the gap? Order some ANTI-SUBMARINE aircraft? (you know? Like the Nimrod that was scrapped)

      Nope.

      They make lots of noise about building NON ANTI-SUBMARINE SUBMARINES that are designed to kill millions of people in far away places with impunity and not kill SUBMARINES that are breaching our home defences with impunity.

      But, people will still vote for these cretins.

    115. Hetty says:

      A Tory MP has just referred to the parts of UK outwith Scotland as “the rest of England” !!!

      Scotland, the new england!

      ffs. What year are we in again?

    116. HandandShrimp says:

      Anybody know who voted what yet? I fancy one or two Liberals might have voted against replacing Trident but that is a guess.

    117. Ali says:

      Well i see paddy power is offering 33/1 for a lab/tory coalition.

      The way things are looking of recent that might be not a bad punt assuming they don’t actually merge before the elections — wonder what paddy’s odds on that would be.

    118. Schrödinger's cat says:

      Anyone got a YouTube link to Pete wish arts speech? Social media is saying it was a belter,

    119. Lesley-anne says:

      To be fair scotspine that question about Type 26 Frigates is still all up in the air … apparently. It all seems to hinge on who you are more willing to believe.

      In the RED corner,should really be BLUE but hey RED or BLUE it’s all the same in the end!

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11265858/Michael-Fallon-Type-26-frigates-will-be-built-on-Clyde.html

      In the BLUE corner:

      http://archive.defensenews.com/article/20141109/DEFREG01/311090024/Britain-Struggles-Costs-New-Frigates

      Stuck in the middle:

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/mod-considers-pulling-4bn-clyde-frigate-contract-1-3602708

    120. Nana Smith says:

      @HandandShrimp

      Division list analysis of the Opposition Day vote on Trident renewal revealed 19 Labour MPs and five Government MPs joined the SNP and Plaid Cymru in the lobbies.

      Neither Prime Minister David Cameron nor Labour leader Ed Miliband took part in the vote, which easily defeated the minor parties’ motion 364 to 37, a majority of 327.

      The Labour MPs were: Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington), Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley), Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran), Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk), Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North), Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West), Paul Flynn (Newport West), Roger Godsiff (Birmingham Sparkbrook and Small Heath), Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North), David Lammy (Tottenham), Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith), John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington), Grahame Morris (Easington), Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian), Dennis Skinner (Bolsover), Andrew Smith (Oxford East), Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton), Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) and Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock).

      Conservative Crispin Blunt (Reigate) and four Liberal Democrats – Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West), Andrew George (St Ives), Julian Huppert (Cambridge) and Mark Williams (Ceredigion) – also backed the motion.

      The remainder of the aye voters were five SNP MPs, Stewart Hosie (Dundee), Angus MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar), Angus Robertson (Moray), Mike Weir (Angus) and Eilidh Whiteford (Banff & Buchan), two Plaid Cymru MPs, Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) and Hywel Williams (Arfon), Green MP Caroline Lucas (Brighton Pavilion), Respect MP

      George Galloway (Bradford East) and Independent Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South).

      Three Northern Ireland MPs, Mark Durkan (Foyle) and Margaret Ritchie (South Down) from the SDLP and Naomi Long (Belfast East) from the Alliance, also backed the motion.

      SNP MP Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) and Plaid MP Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) acted as Aye tellers.

    121. crazycat says:

      @ HandandShrimp

      AYES
      Abbott, Ms Diane
      Blunt, Crispin
      Campbell, Mr Ronnie
      Clark, Katy
      Connarty, Michael
      Corbyn, Jeremy
      Crockart, Mike
      Davidson, Mr Ian
      Durkan, Mark
      Flynn, Paul
      Galloway, George
      George, Andrew
      Godsiff, Mr Roger
      Hancock, Mr Mike
      Hopkins, Kelvin
      Hosie, Stewart
      Huppert, Dr Julian
      Lammy, rh Mr David
      Lazarowicz, Mark
      Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
      Long, Naomi
      Lucas, Caroline
      MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan
      McDonnell, John
      Morris, Grahame M. (Easington)
      O’Donnell, Fiona
      Osborne, Sandra
      Ritchie, Ms Margaret
      Robertson, Angus
      Skinner, Mr Dennis
      Smith, rh Mr Andrew
      Stringer, Graham
      Walley, Joan
      Weir, Mr Mike
      Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
      Williams, Hywel
      Williams, Mr Mark
      Tellers for the Ayes:

      Pete Wishart
      and

      Jonathan Edwards

      4 LDs in there, I think,if you include Hancock.
      http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/221/

    122. crazycat says:

      @ Nana Smith

      I knew someone would get there first while I was faffing about! 🙂

    123. Anne says:

      Did the branch manager turn up? Did he vote?

    124. steveasaneilean says:

      And no Chilcot before election according to BBC

    125. Lesley-Anne says:

      Do you mean this one Schrödinger’s cat ? 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTHqb-lHEc&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

    126. Nana Smith says:

      @crazycat

      Not much in it crazycat. I just cut and pasted. I’m lazy!!

    127. HandandShrimp says:

      Cheers folks.

      Not entirely surprised by some of the Labour names that backed the motion although there were one or two that I am unfamiliar with.

      I will be likely be not much surprised by those that voted with the Tories either.

    128. Patrick Roden says:

      I posted this on a ‘Scot goes Pop’ article, but since we are compairing Labour MP’s I think it’s relevant:


      ‘A vote for Labour is a wasted Vote’

      It doesn’t matter how High or Low, Scottish Labours % share of the vote is, anyone who votes for them is wasting their vote and this needs to be shared with the voters during the election Campaign.

      My evidence is simple, Labour MP’s en mass, did not attend or vote on the Trident debate, various Bedroom Tax debates, austerity debates, in fact a lot of debates that would impact hugely on Scotland!

      They also traipsed through Westminster shoulder to shoulder with the Tory, & Lib Dems and voted for £30 BILLION pounds of further cuts that will have a disproportionate effect on Glasgow, because they were ordered to do so.

      This was clearly against a lot of Scottish Labours MP’s constituents best interests, as a lot of them are in some of the most deprived areas in the whole of the UK.

      But this wasn’t as important as the fact that Ed was frightened that the Tory’s would make political capital in the Middle England, if they voted against these cuts.

      So time and time again, the people of Scotland have given Labour MP’s their vote, believing that these Labour MP’s would fight for what was in their best interests, only for Scottish Labour MP’s to either refuse to vote against, or even vote for, policies that would in fact damage these same voters, as well as policies that polling evidence shows time and time again Scots feel strongly about.

      So any Labour voters reading this, don’t waste your vote, vote for a party that will genuinely fight for Scotland’s best interests…

      …EVERY TIME.

      whether it’s SNP or Greens or any other Scottish Party, is entirely up to you, just don’t waste your vote on Labour, as they have surely betrayed Scotland for long enough! “

    129. Lesley-Anne says:

      Anne says:

      Did the branch manager turn up? Did he vote?

      Do you REALLY have to ask that question Anne? 😉

      Oh the answer by the way is … drum roll please … No he didn’t. (turn up or vote I mean 😛 )

    130. Forgot quote.

      I cannot believe what the hon. Gentleman has just said. At a time when submarines from Russia are going up the Clyde and tankers from the same place are at the top of Scotland, he is trying to tell us that we should not have a deterrent. That is absolutely unreal. The idea that we should find ourselves defenceless in those circumstances is a crazy notion.

    131. Johnny says:

      Did anyone catch Pete Wishart’s sppech for posterity? I did watch chunks of the debate (seeing Angus Robertson and Angus Brendan MacNeil speak, as well as dribblings by Fallon anf others) but couldn’t watch it all. Given people are talking about how well Pete came across, I’d like to see it (and sadly know it is unlikely to appear anywhere mainstream).

    132. SquareHaggis says:

      Perhaps Pete Wishart could have forced the point a bit stronger?

      Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP):
      Is not the situation actually worse than that? A previous speaker talked about other nuclear installations around the country, but is it not the case that convoys are bringing these nuclear weapons through the city of Glasgow to get to Faslane?

      Pete Wishart:
      I heard, and I am sure my hon. Friend is aware of these reports, that these cargoes were being shipped through the city centre of Glasgow only last week. That is what we have to put up with in Scotland: these death convoys on our roads.

      See link to youtube clip

      http://www.banthebomb.org/index.php/news/trident/1642-nuclear-convoy-ignores-weather-warnings

    133. arthur thomson says:

      We have to accept that we can only hope to convince those thinking people at the periphery of the SLAB, Libdem and Tory support. We have to get the support of new voters, be they young people voting for the first time or those who in the past have opted not to vote. Remember when we didn’t have Wings, Bella, Common Weal, WGD etc. I have to say that it makes me laugh to think of the Russians sending a sub up the Clyde. We need to tell people far and wide and make the ‘punch above our weight’ Brits a laughing stock. Surely one of our comedians has to use this in their routine. Defence???

    134. SquareHaggis says:

      @johnny,

      It’s in here

      http://tinyurl.com/lr9vd3u

      Around 5pm.

    135. Schrödinger's cat says:

      Tx lesley
      Pete wish art at his best.
      Slab didn’t show up, what would they say?

    136. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Donohoe, overheard at referendum count (in The Citadel, Ayr) just before the Glasgow result was announced:

      ‘Right, time to see how the Catholics went.’

      I know for sure he said it because it was me who overheard him, and it wasn’t that difficult, even though he had his back to me and was seated approx ten, maybe twelve feet away.

      Doesn’t matter if the comment was just clumsy and boorish. What he did that night was show utter contempt for anyone within earshot of his bluster, whilst exposing his own jaundiced perception of fellow Scots who happen not to occupy the same lucrative bubble as him and his cronies.

      I’ve said this before on WOS – Donohoe and his coterie appeared to know, when they walked into the hospitality room, that they had it in the bag, even though we’d barely had half a dozen results in. It’s just not possible to have that gallus body-language and perma-smirk unless you’ve been tipped the wink. They were laughing too heartily far too soon, and were very fortunate that none of the Yes-party delegates rose to the bait.

      I look forward to the return match, but I don’t believe for a heartbeat that Mr Donohoe will attend it – he’ll probably choose to stay home that night, waiting for his hair to come back from the cleaners.

    137. highseastim says:

      No surprise from the “red Tories” in the vote then, that should ensure a major boot in the baws come GE time, I cannot wait!!

    138. velofello says:

      And having absolutely no military experience, I really don’t see Russia as “the enemy” of Scotland.

      Enemies to the welfare of our people are much closer to home I reckon. They take our resources,lie to us and cheat. And cloak it all in pageantry.

      I do recall Putin, on a state visit to… London, insisting that he visit Scotland to acknowledge the contributions of Scotland to Russia over the decades.

      A Unionist blunder has been to establish Hollyrood, as right under our noses we can assess the talents our our MSPs – think Gray, Lamont, McConnell – whereas who of us knows what Donohue, and the others, do from one week to the other down in Westminster. Expense claims I concede, but what else?

      Philippa Whitford will be an outstanding MP. I urge you to use your membership vote for her. Donohue will cower in a corner faced with her intelligence, vitality and integrity.

    139. Betty Boop says:

      @ Stoops, 5:36pm

      If there are Russian submarines swimming up and down The Clyde, why the hell aren’t the Royal Navy doing something about it?

      Navy? What navy? Have you found the Royal Navy?

    140. Big Jock says:

      Sorry only one word:” Arsehole”. Let’s get these dumb brainless workshy spongers out of office.

    141. Bob Sinclair says:

      WORKSHY EMPLOYEE – PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL

      (Another communication to my ‘hard working’ or should that be ‘hardly working MP)

      Tom,

      Please remind me just exactly what it is that you are paid to do, because it obviously doesn’t involve acting in the interests of your constituents who overwhelmingly disagree with having a massive nuclear arsenal on their doorstep.

      Failing to bother to vote is as cowardly as it is unacceptable.

      Your end of term report has been prepared and can be reviewed below:

      F minus, must try harder.

    142. Lollysmum says:

      Why was Donohoe there? What did he have to say? One thing only & that was part of Project Fear 2. His one job today was to talk about Russians being in Scottish waters. Absolute bullshit!

      That was his job today to sow fear about the Russians. If that was the case then the coastline would have been crawling with service personnel. It wasn’t or we’d have known about it.

      Putin is not interested in the Clyde-he has much bigger problems to think about & act against. This is SLAB playing games. When I was in the WRNS stationed at Lossiemouth many years ago, we had scrambles every day for suspected Russian aircraft & even then it was bull. None of our pilots saw a Russian aircraft in 4 years. We came to the conclusion that it was politicians & senior service personnel trying to justify their jobs & putting people in fear of the Russian bogeymen- nothing like fear keeping the plebs in their place at the bottom of the pile.

      They can only keep Trident if we are in fear & Russia is the traditional enemy of our so called politicians. Vote the whole lot of them out in May. With every public utterance they reinforce the knowledge that they aren’t worth voting for & are only interested in retaining their cushy careers. They are certainly well beyond earning the trust of the people.

      It is time Donohoe was put out to grass on today’s performance alone. What a w****r.

    143. cearc says:

      I left the radio on all afternoon. So far not a single mention of the debate on R4, so much for ‘democracy day’!

    144. Jimbo says:

      Maybe the Russians thought Labour lord George Robertson’s suggestion that Russia should join NATO was an invitation for them, as potential members, to sail up the Clyde for away days.

    145. Lollysmum says:

      Glad to see my MP Kelvin Hopkins voted against renewing Trident. Still doesn’t mean he’ll get my vote though-he is part of Labour & I’ll never vote Labour again.

      Green this time around for me.

    146. ronnie anderson says:

      @Lesley Anne naw the Scottish Accounting Unit Manager wasent there, however Vernon Coaker had spoke to him & by all accounts he was in agreement of renewal.

    147. ronnie anderson says:

      @ cynicalhighlander Navy Cut naw thanks ah gave it up am Vaping now lol.

    148. Rock says:

      If the Lib Dems are decimated in May and the SNP hold the balance of power with 50+ MPs, the blue and red tories will have no option but to form a coalition.

      There would be nothing more natural in today’s Westminster politics than a Blue-Red coalition. Apart from the rhetoric, there is hardly any difference left between them.

    149. SqueuedPerspextive says:

      They should sign this guy for ‘Mock the Week’, erm, what? He WASN’T doing a turn ?

    150. Big del says:

      Nuclear subs in the Clyde. When? Run run minister…..

      Prick!!!!!!!!!!!!

    151. @ronnie anderson

      Tried vapping but can’t find juice strong enough. 🙁

    152. Macandroid says:

      At least the Russian sub didn’t run aground just off the Esplanade at Greenock unlike the RN sub which did at a time when the commander Clyde lived there.
      He didn’t need radio to communicate with the subjust had to shout a bit.

    153. Charles mc says:

      Can we please get this man out of politics he doesn’t represent anything usefull. Roll on GE2015.

    154. Lesley-Anne says:

      ronnie anderson says:

      @Lesley Anne naw the Scottish Accounting Unit Manager wasent there, however Vernon Coaker had spoke to him & by all accounts he was in agreement of renewal.

      Oh dearie me Ronnie, yesterday he *ahem* ran away from a guy and his, I assume wife, in Dundee and today he cannae face making a personal appearance in Westminster and has to rely on Vernon Coaker to reiterate his *cough* personal instructions to all 41 of Labour M.P.’s under his *ahem* charge! 😀

    155. Lollysmum says:

      @ Ronnie Anderson-a fellow vaper, well done Ronnie. Bit better for you than Blue Liners or Navy Cut 🙂

      @ Bob Sinclair-do you ever get a response to your letters 🙂

    156. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Can someone with the requisite skills please adapt the following link to include –

      ‘Looks like I picked the wrong week to join Scottish Labour…’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgE3xiWgZnE

    157. Lesley-Anne says:

      Russia … hmm. That will be the country that ever since the end of WW II has been recognising the work carried out by, in my view, probably the bravest of the brave, namely the men who manned the ships on the Arctic convoys. The same men who were totally ignored by every Prime Minister since Winston Churchill until someone jerked wee Broon the Loon’s ear that recognising these brave men would be a vote winner … net result a PIN BADGE!

      Step up to the plate one David Cameron and FINALLY decades after the event the few, and they are the few, finally get what they should have received any time from 1946 on a proper Arctic Convoy medal!

      Mind you it still isn’t all dead and gone for the Arctic convoy lads cause the M.O.D., I think, have BANNED these brave men from wearing the medals Russia regularly award them cause they received them more than 5 years after the event! WHIT??? 😉

      I’m guessing the Russian sub in the Clyde was only trying to deliver this year’s collection of medals for the survivors of the Arctic Convoys after all it was passing the Clyde on its way to *ahem* sunnier climes. 😀

    158. ronnie anderson says:

      @ cinicalhighlander try Jacvapour (online) I smoke equivalent to Golden Virginia 18% PG & goes up to 24% all that VG chemical piss is a waste,& its a Scottish supplier.

    159. bookie from hell says:

      I think his remarks have been removed from Hansard

    160. Mealer says:

      I’ve been listening to the wireless.Theres no word of Russian subs in the Tay.No sign of periscopes.So that’s a relief.

    161. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s the Clan Destiny footage of post-debate interviews from the Irvine public meeting (basically, Donohoe versus Sheridan) mentioned earlier in this thread –

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hON1otzI8o

    162. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Lollysmum Ah Vaper no wan of they wans that disappear in a cloud ah kin smoke mine anywhere (discreatly)even on Wings nights out,no problems.

    163. X_Sticks says:

      Judging by the studious ignoring of the Trident debate by the MSM they are scared that WMD could be a major issue in Scotland.

      I think they have been told not to publicise it.

      Labour are running scared of the question.

      I would suggest we all join Scottish CND. This is a pressure point that we should push.

    164. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Mealer stakeout Visocchie’s in case they go fur a cone heid lol.

    165. Jock Scot says:

      On a positive note, the bias BBC have provided us with the ammunition to use against Labour in the run-up to the election and remember trident was one of the most focused subjects in the Indy debate and will still be fresh in the minds. Remember this when we are on the doorsteps, make sure someone has a tablet and show trad. Labour voters..the scaled down version will be enough. Sorry..haven’t a clue where that came from but it felt good speed typing it

    166. manandboy says:

      If Scotland is so vital to Westminster,
      as Sir Nicholas McPherson makes clear,
      then upon an EU referendum in 2017,
      in which Scotland votes to stay in
      while England votes to leave,
      Westminster will be forced to rig the result
      of the EU referendum
      in order to keep ‘so vital’ Scotland in the Union – and in the EU.

      That will give the SNP a red face,
      and the Scottish Independence movement a major problem.

      In fact, the more I think about it, the more certain I am
      that either there will be NO EU Referendum
      or that the result will be rigged to keep the UK in the EU.

      In the minds of voters in England, the EU is mainly about immigration.
      But the City only thinks money and knows that rUK will sink like a stone
      if England leaves the EU and Scotland gets Independence.

      IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

      Nor is the result going to be shaped by democracy.

      Westminster will be forced to do in the EU Referendum
      what it has just done in the Scottish Referendum. Rig it.

      On another track, the SNP are making a HUGE assumption
      about Labour in power with the SNP in GE15.
      It could easily turn into a HUGE mistake.

      Westminster is going to need a very strong Government
      if it is to get through 2015-17 with the Union intact.
      That means a Tory/Lab coalition.
      This is the only political vehicle which can save the British Establishment
      over the next thee years.

      Sir Nicholas McPherson really let a lot of cats out of the bag on Monday night at the Strand Group.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-the-treasury-backed-the-no-vote-in-the-scottish-referendum-its-top-mandarin-speaks-9989263.html

    167. frankieboy says:

      The sad thing is many Labour supporters will regurgitate this insanity in pubs, clubs and in general chit-chat. Its not just the candidate that have twisted logic. They will be voted for by Scots like my mother who used to say to us as kids things such as ‘ If you fall and break your leg then don’t come running to me!’

    168. Dr Jim says:

      The union team are always threatening us with the rest of the world stuff, do you think the rest of the world threaten their people with us, makes me think the rest of the world folks probably have enough on their plate to be bothered about us lot
      Then you start to think, i bet there’s money in this here nuclear shit, and then you think, who’s making the money then, while the whole world is being told they’re being threatened by everybody else, usually there’s always “The man” you go high enough there’s a guy or guys SO who are they
      I think all the countries probably co-operate on this, scare the little people tactic, we saw it in the referendum so why not over Nukes, it makes the bad guys money to make people afraid.
      Strangely enough i’ve got friends in Spain, Belgium,Ireland, relatives in Switzerland and none of them seem to ever worry about being nuked by anybody, so for all the Nuke voting Unionist people out there, Try not to worry coz you’ll die with or without them sooner or later so why not use the cash we’ll save and maybe cure something,or fix broken people, or what about this for a novel idea, create jobs that actually keep people alive

    169. Kininvie says:

      O/T
      We did a trial canvass at the weekend. We showed the results to an SNP councillor without saying where we got them from, and asked his opinion. “I would classify that as a core ward that could be reled on to elect an SNP councillor”

      In point of fact, the results were from a previously solid Labour area.

      That said, there were a LOT of DKs. These are the people swinging towards SNP, but who will go back if they can bring themselves to believe Murphy. I got a stong sense of deja vue – all those undecideds in indyref who brought themselves to believe the Vow. We have a task on our hands…

    170. john king says:

      Dr Jim says
      “From facebook, some kids eating their chips spotted them
      I believe they waved…”

      This important
      sautnvinigar or sautnsauce?
      do you have ANY idea of how important this is?
      ————————————————-

      Paula Rose says
      “Um – how does he know there are Russian subs in the Clyde?”

      Eh is it because the chippie in Girvin had a run on jars of pickled cabbage?
      ————————————————–
      craztcat says
      “Ten years ago I was informed by Brian Donohoe that we needed a nuclear deterrent because he had been to China, and knew what the Chinese were up to. ”

      Sheesh you know how to build the tension!
      well?
      WHAT WERE THEY UP TO?
      ——————————————-
      Peter Campbell says
      “Surely an offensive object such as a submarine sailing in British (for the moment) waters, is an extremely aggressive act?”

      Oh I dont know,
      its no as offensive as a toaly
      or as aggressive as a carelessly discarded Daily Mail. eh?
      An they use up all the pickled cabbage we dont buy, its good for the planet Peter
      ——————————————————

      caz-m says
      “Just watched that video of Donohoe, that Scottish Labour Party should have their own comedy channel.”

      Oh dear caz-m ,
      THEY DO!
      all together now,
      ITS CALLED THE BBC
      _________________________________________________________
      CynicalHighlander says
      “The Donohoe intervention.”
      I havent seen it,
      is it as good as the Bourne conspiracy?
      __________________________________________
      Ian Brotherhood says
      ” he’ll probably choose to stay home that night, waiting for his hair to come back from the cleaners.”

      Woohahahahaha I thought it was bri nylon?
      cold wash’ll be fine. :}
      _______________________________________________________

      Does Donahoehohohoh really want to “nuke the bastards” for dumping their empty chip pokes and cabbage jars in the moray Firth?
      Wow that man means business maybe we should make him NATO general secretary?
      Well he’s nae mair thick than Lord George zippyanBungle!
      _________________________________________________________
      Schrodingers cat

      Wish art
      Hope tree! 🙂

      ___________________________________________________

      Lollysmum says
      “@ Ronnie Anderson-a fellow vaper, well done Ronnie. Bit better for you than Blue Liners or Navy Cut :-)”

      I tried Blue lining once

      I woke up in Nova Scotia getting my face licked by a seal 🙁
      __________________________________________________________

      Lesley Anne @ 11.44pm

      Well said Arbroath!
      ___________________________________________________
      Mealer says
      “I’ve been listening to the wireless.Theres no word of Russian subs in the Tay.No sign of periscopes.So that’s a relief.”

      WIRELESS?
      Maybe because you’ve got it on Hilversum, you should try the Home service. 🙂
      ________________________________________________
      Manandboy says
      “if England leaves the EU and Scotland gets Independence.

      IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!”

      Should we get the popcorn in and wait to see the EU treat Westminster like its bitch for even having the cheek to have a vote to leave?
      ___________________________________________________

    171. Robert Peffers says:

      It only occurred to me this morning that perhaps Brian Donohoe got the wrong idea from reading only a headline in, “newsnet.scot”, that reads: –

      “Nuke convoy passed through Glasgow storm – Scottish CND

      http://newsnet.scot/2015/01/nuke-convoy-passed-glasgow-storm-cnd/

      We all know here on WoS that the politically unaware are prone to being influenced by only reading deliberately misleading headlines and ignoring the actual text of the story. Could SLAB MPs be so politically unaware they allowed themselves to be thus misled?

    172. john king says:

      Me
      @Paula Rose
      ““Um – how does he know there are Russian subs in the Clyde?”

      Eh is it because the chippie in Girvin had a run on jars of pickled cabbage?”

      It seems an auld tramp went in to the chippie with a Morrisons shopping trolly and bought every jar they had, when they asked him why he wanted so many he said he was feeling a little zhelchnyy, — eh bilious.

    173. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king says:21 January, 2015 at 7:21 am:

      Me
      @Paula Rose
      ““Um – how does he know there are Russian subs in the Clyde?”

      Eh is it because the chippie in Girvin had a run on jars of pickled cabbage?”

      The thing is he was down by the waterside and heard a sound that went, “pinnnnng”, and thought it was an ASDIC, (sonar), echo from a Russki submarine. It turned out to just be the elastic band he was using to hold his hair on had broken, (It was a bit breezy down by the water that day). He tried to report it to the Local Home Service, (Radio Scotland), Wireless Station, (radio channel), but got delayed due to the Glasgow traffic jam, (Glasgow gridlock).

      Please excuse the owersettin intil USA Inglis.
      Ahem!
      ;-))

    174. Brian fleming says:

      Donohoe reminds me of the guy who used to be the foil to McGlashan. “No, no. There’s not 40 billion people in the wiruld.”

    175. JOHN KING says:

      Rober Peffers says
      “The thing is he was down by the waterside and heard a sound that went, “pinnnnng”, and thought it was an ASDIC, ”

      I thought the “pinnnng” was the Scottish “home fleet” (the Girvin/Dunnon ferry) using guttys to fire at the sub?

      ASDIC? well that gives a new meaning to silent but violent! 🙂
      PIIINNNNGG

    176. tombee says:

      I would not be too hasty in dismissing Mr Donohoe’s observations about that Russian Submarine in the Clyde. He obviously sighted it from his banana boat.

    177. john king says:

      Tombee says
      “He obviously sighted it from his banana boat.”

      He obviously sighted it from his cream cracker,
      there sorted that for you.

    178. Ali says:

      I don’t know about the rest of you but i am totally depressed at the voting results after the Trident motion yesterday.

      I never for a moment imagined that the motion would pass but for goodness sake 37 votes, take away the proposers and we are left with a mere handful of like minded people.

      Maybe i am a bit naive but it was in my mind that something as contentious as Trident would have mustered a bit more interest from the likes of folks against all thing nuclear, pacifists or even just simply on financial grounds so to see such a low number of votes for really did knock me for six.

      I joked in an earlier post that paddy power were giving odds of 33/1 for a labor/tory coalition well after sleeping on this thought i am now rummaging down the back of the couch to see if i can find a pound coin surely must be worth a punt.

    179. Ken500 says:

      26Millions Russians died in 11WW. 1 in six of the pop. (Half of all deaths). How many more do they want to nuke?

    180. Gavin says:

      “submarines coming from Russia going up the Clyde right now”

      Does this clown think that having nuclear weapons would allow us to explode one in the Clyde to prevent the subs?

      The way he thinks is dangerous.

    181. Johnny says:

      Squarehaggis @ 10:30pm:

      Thanks for that!

    182. SquareHaggis says:

      Pete Wishart speech archived for posterity, starts 5.22pm

      https://archive.today/INj4s

    183. jackie g says:

      Article in the National yesterday says:

      Labour MP’s were not attending the debate yesterday as it was a stunt by SNP and Plaid Cymru..

    184. chalks says:

      I see Osborne is now saying that ‘Scotland must live with it’s decisions’ this is regarding income tax rates potentially being different in England and Scotland.

      I mentioned earlier that Osborne would seek to destroy Scotland, I wasn’t joking.

      Did a scottish person give him a wedgie when he was younger? Or is it more to do with his belief that if he wrecks the economy in Scotland through having a larger country with different rates imposing themselves on us, by undercutting us, then the Scottish tories can ride to the rescue…

      If the Uk’s balance of trade deficit didn’t rely on the oil, we’d really be getting fucked over by this bitch-child of thatcher.

    185. Ken500 says:

      Osbourne who increased Oil tax revenues 11% (£2Billion) up to 80%+ complains that Scotland could lower tax. What a lying Hypocrite. Heathrow is subsidised with £Billiions of public money.
      Osbourbe’s and his associates made £Millions from the Royal Mail sell off and HS2. His best man, brother-in-law and father-in-law.

      Westminster have secretly taken £Billions from Scotland. The McCrone Report and Thatcher, ‘this must be kept secret’, written on the Scittish papers. Her Minister resigned. The Poll tax introduced by unelected Rothschild.

      Scotland must have control over spending to make a difference. Where are they going to put the nuclear subs when Scotland is Independent? Devonport or the Thames. Cut Trident/HS2. Cut the deficit.

    186. It is entirely possible that the Russians might have heard of Nardini’s ice cream?

      Have you thought of that?

    187. Lollysmum says:

      Ali

      Be careful what you do with that pound. You may find you’ve ended up joining Labour 🙂

    188. Johnny says:

      Also thanks to CynicalHighlander for posting the link to yesterday’s debate 🙂

    189. Fred says:

      How does the rest of Europe manage to sleep at nights with no nuclear sub’s of their own to deter the Russians. Only Britain & France persist with this costly charade and being armed to the teeth hundreds of times over did not deter the fanatics in Paris.
      The top terrorist target in Britain, apart from the House of Lords, is the Faslane complex and if the shit ever hits the fan Cameron & Co will be hoping that given the prevailing winds any fall-out won’t affect London.
      It’s complete madness, Donohoe must think we came up the Clyde on a water-biscuit.

    190. heedtracker says:

      If it wasn’t Russian submarines in the Clyde, it would be some other concocted terror. This is how the UK and Slab work, with fear, scare the suckers in to NO, frighten them in to Slabbers. Mind the tory boy space cadets that threatened to use the RAF to bomb Glasgow airport and the alien invasion from outer space that Scotland could not defend against? Project Fear wasnt invented by bloated conmen like Bliar MacDougal.

    191. No no no...Yes says:

      Square haggis 8:48am

      Thanks for the Pete Wishart link. He certainly put forward a passionate case.

      John King 6:58am chips condiment choices

      Jim Murphy says that if you vote Labour the gritters will put Salt And Vinegar on the roads.

    192. Ali says:

      ha ha lollysmum — no chance of that — been well over 30 years since labour got my “cross” or anything else for that matter. As a union rep many moons ago (i am no spring chicken) i saw the writing on the wall with that outfit in the late 70’s/early 80’s and quickly changed my alliances.

    193. One_Scot says:

      The British regime and political system are corrupt to the core to the determent of Scotland. How bad do things have to become before the Scottish public realise that Scotland only exists as a region to be controlled and abused by Britain.

      Will we ever learn, or is it just the case that Scotland may be the stupidest country in the world.

    194. RMAC says:

      The whole “foreign sub spotted of the west coast of Scotland” story stinks to high heaven. I have scoured the press looking for the actual first person report or even identifying the source of this. It can’t be found, at least by me.
      The west coast of Scotland has regular submarine traffic because of Faslane as well as the exercise areas around the Western Isles. There is also a BUTEC torpedo/sonar testing facility at Kyle of Lochalsh so no west coast local would think anything about a periscope even if he could see it which is extremely unlikely unless he has Superman’s vision given the depth that a submarine has to be at in order to be submerged and its periscope in use (HMS Astute ran aground of Skye in 2010 so I doubt that anyone else would be stupid enough to get that close to the shore line again and she was running on the surface at the time). Even if this was seen from a boat no one would consider it a big deal given the regular traffic around the west coast, even if they did who or why would they report it as submarine movements are secret and no one at the Admiralty would comment on this if it was or wasn’t one of “ours” never mind send out a press release about it that highlights their incompetence or lack of resources. Unless it was flying a flag there would also be no way of identifying its nationality from a passing ship so how can it be reported to be foreign.
      The whole thing strikes me as a fabricated story with not much in the way of hard facts to support it. If we had decent journalists in the MSM this “story” would never have got further than the first phone call to verify the facts.

    195. Luigi says:

      Rock says:

      20 January, 2015 at 11:10 pm

      If the Lib Dems are decimated in May and the SNP hold the balance of power with 50+ MPs, the blue and red tories will have no option but to form a coalition

      Pardon the pun, but that is indeed their nuclear option.

    196. J Galt says:

      Yes Para Handy with his beloved Vital Spark converted into a “Q SHIP” (google it!) would soon see the Russkies off or if that didn’t work the Waverley could get it with her Paddles!
      The reason the Russians make these regular “navigational errors” and enter UK waters is to show up what a Joke the UK armed forces have become. A year ago a Russian Guided Missile Cruiser was basically parked in Inverness docks before the RN knew anything about it!

    197. G H Graham says:

      “You can’t fix stupid” – Ron White, comedian.

    198. manandboy says:

      Since the days of the US nuclear subs in the Holy Loch, the entire history of Faslane & Coulport has been about the Americans. They call the shots and pay rent to the UK for the use of the sites on the Firth of Clyde. Sure, it’s British sailors in British subs – to make the Establishment feel a little tougher about itself – but the show is produced by the US.

      BTW, The Americans haven’t a clue about the contempt in which they are held by the British Establishment.
      Very recently, Barack Obama spoke about the very, very close relationship between himself and David Cameron! Cameron’s Club wouldn’t let Obama past the front door!

      But the US military does so much more than Nuclear, and this is where the Brits are letting the US down badly. In 9 operations out of 10, the Americans would prefer the UK to have some serious regular military forces which can actually make a difference where the bullets are flying.

      But Dave cares more about being a member of the Nuclear Club and sitting down with the big boys – even though he’s just a little boy not long out of school. I mean what must the Yanks, with their enormous military muscle in both manpower and hardware, think of the toytown military of the UK. All our best stuff has been scrapped. Shh.

      So to save face and keep up the pretext of still being a global force for international security and peace as real empires do, we have to keep the nuclear buttons polished, even though the list of things we can’t afford is a disgrace – like food, fuel, medicine & housing.

      While the Unionists in Scotland – the No voters – have their eyes screwed tight shut so that they don’t have to look at the contempt and loathing which the Westminster Establishment have for them.
      Half a million Bluenoses in Scotland actually believe that they and the Windsors, the Tories and the Toffs are all part of the same tribe.
      Ha! I haven’t laughed so much since Rangers signed Mark Walters and then threw bananas at him.

      The real tragedy for the Bluenoses is that in an Independent Scotland they could have found a way – a far far better way, of being Rangers, in a fair and prosperous land. Instead they shot themselves in the balls and now have nothing to offer Scotlands’ independent future.

      From bananas to banana boats submarine spotting on the Clyde. You’ve got to laugh!

      We are the audience at the Union pantomime.

    199. Robert Peffers says:

      @JOHN KING says: 21 January, 2015 at 8:08 am:

      “ASDIC? well that gives a new meaning to silent but violent! 🙂 PIIINNNNGG”

      Well, John, it’s just me taking a wee swipe at the way the English speaking English are so ready to adopt USA English terms these days. The term ASDIC was first given to the then top secret anti-submarine system invented in Britain in the early 1920s but not really better developed until during WWII. The term is derived from the initials of Anti-Submarine-Detection-Indication & Computation. to come from

      The term was claimed by the authors of a book on the subject to be derived from the initial letters of a fictitious Royal Navy department, “Anti-submarine Detection Investigation Committee”. No such department ever existed. As one who worked on the equipment just post WWII the accepted derivation was as I stated above.

      As usual the Yanks seem to have done a re-write of history and, after WWII, adopted the term Sonar that is in vogue today. BTW: In spite of the Hollywood movie the YANKS never captured the German Enigma code machine either.

    200. Gary says:

      Just because its not true and just because he knows its not true won’t stop him repeating it ad nauseum. I disapprove of Trident for many reasons but EVEN I could come up with better (and more truthful) arguments than he has. He chooses these arguments because he is too lazy to TRY to use a truthful argument. He’s just too used to lying and getting away with it..

    201. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The Herald and the BBC manage to completely ignore yesterday’s vote in Parliament on Trident. The Record reports the handful of Labour rebels who voted with the SNP. Couple of surprising names there. Connarty, Davidson. Katy Clark of course

    202. Fred says:

      I seem to recall that a large yacht skelped a nuclear sub off Arran and knocked a bit off the lum? it could have been Arnold Clark’s “Drum”? the sub had been hiding below the yacht as an exercise. This story was denied by the MOD but the yacht’s skipper had the lum to prove it. “If Douggie was here he would tell you himself”.
      There was also a story of a fishing boat being capsised due to an unexpected catch.

    203. donald anderson says:

      Surprised at Davidson,I thought he would have bene arguing for the Trident on the grounds that it gave a few measly jobs?

      Incidentally, Buchenwald created jobs too.

    204. Fred says:

      @Donald Anderson, Davidson is fighting for his own job. 🙂

    205. Cyborgnat says:

      Nothing to worry about as I know the reason for the Russian submarines being in the Clyde.
      Quite simply, they are cruising around Islay with all their windows open relishing the various aromas on the breeze!
      Otherwise how would an organisation that can’t see fishing boats or largish islands like Skye know they were there?

    206. BornOptimist says:

      For those wondering why so few MPs attended the Trident debate its worth reading this extract from George Kerevan’s article in today’s Scotsman.

      “…the de facto decision to replace Trident has long since been made, by the then Labour government in December 2006. Last year, the Tory-Lib Dem coalition quietly renewed Britain’s long-standing nuclear weapons co-operation treaty with the US, the so-called Mutual Defence Agreement, which dates back to 1958.

      The heart of this latest iteration of the treaty is a deal to design the warheads and reactors for the new generation of subs.

      You might find it odd in a democracy that such a treaty can be signed without scrutiny by elected members. In fact, the Crown (that great euphemism for the Executive in Downing Street) merely has to lay the said renewal “before parliament” within 21 days, for it to become law.

      True, MPs can request a parliamentary debate. However, governments routinely get round this by simply refusing to table such a debate for supposed lack of interest or time. Labour did this brazenly in 2004, the last time the US nuclear treaty was renewed.

      Rank-and-file Scottish Labour was clearly discomforted by the decision of the party’s leadership to ignore Tuesday’s debate and side – yet again – with the Tories.

      Labour squirming over the Trident replacement project is standard. Back in 2007, when the Scottish Parliament voted against renewing Trident by 71 MSPs to 16, a majority of Labour members abstained. An honourable exception was Malcolm Chisholm, who actually resigned as a minister under Jack McConnell over replacing Trident.”

      What matters, as some commentators point out, are the long term contracts, who pays the price, and who benefits. It certainly isn’t Scottish workers. I’d hazard a small guess that the financial benefits are primarily felt south of the border and west of the Atlantic and, like almost all large scale ‘businesses’ the costs would be externalised to society in general, in this case, to the West of Scotland in particular. Who would pay for the clean-up if there was a really serious mishap in the Clyde?

    207. Chic McGregor says:

      Since, clearly, the presence of Trident is no deterrent to Russian subs, but oil wells would bem by creating an unacceptable hazard to their passage, Mr Donohoe’s own logic must take him to the conclusion that the best course of action would be to dispense with Trident and licence the oil fields in the Clyde estuary and West coast.

    208. Muscleguy says:

      @DavidAgnew

      Now, now let’s not get carried away. Let’s wargame that ourselves shall we? (I did a bit of wargaming in my youth). Now for a start for Russia to hit the UK even with a carrier battlegroup they would have to have knocked out our NATO allies in Norway, Holland, Denmark, Germany, Finland, Poland etc as their supply lines are very, very dodgy and their flanks and rear very exposed to counter attack.

      The Russians are not coming for us, or not just us and the last thing the Russians actually want is a load of bolshie Europeans to rule. That Eastern European buffer they had in the Warsaw pact tied up a lot of Soviet troops just to ensure the locals didn’t get ideas like the Hungarians tried to, the Poles managed to despite threats of Soviet tanks on the streets and the Czechoslovaks managed very peacefully.

    209. Mr Donohoe was simply writing another paragraph in his resignation speech. I am hopeful of becoming the SNP candidate to run against him in the GE. Having met with him I can confirm this really is him. Its not a slip or out of charachter comment. He is stuck in a belief system that has him at odds with the electorate. Given the opportunity I will defeat him in May.

    210. stonefree says:

      @Dario Walker 12:04 pm
      “He is stuck in a belief system that has him at odds with the electorate” worse than that he’s stuck with a Dave Clark Five haircut. His choob “Most Embarrassing MP” causes great amusement with the ex-pats in the Emirates
      “Given the opportunity I will defeat him in May.” very best to luck
      O/T Dunderheed was an alleged Ship Draughtsman at Troon,and useless by all accounts

    211. stonefree says:

      should have been
      very best of luck



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