Have I Got Evasion For You
We referenced this a few days ago because we definitely remembered it happening, but we’d been unable to actually locate the evidence, and at Wings Over Scotland that sort of thing bothers us. After a very considerable amount of effort we’ve now tracked it down, so we’re bunging it up here to preserve it for the record.
(At that point host Frank Skinner gave up and moved on.)
It’s from one month after the indyref, and the interesting thing is that Robinson is twice given the opportunity to respond to Skinner’s question about whether he thought that the pro-Yes supporters had any sort of fair point about his alleged bias, and both times – rather than, say, just dismissing it with a quick “Of course not” – he ducks it.
Readers can, as always, make their own judgements.
Incidentally, after last Friday’s piece we made a number of attempts to engage with Mr Robinson, as he’d called on the BBC to do with “dissidents”. We did eventually get a couple of replies, which we also document in full here for the record.
That was the end of the engagement, so to speak.
So the answers were: a single radio show among the corporation’s non-stop avalanche of newspaper-review content occasionally now includes website headlines, the BBC is not promoting a cause (which will come as a surprise to the BBC), and if you don’t like stuff you can always complain about it – although mainly only to the BBC itself – and be fobbed off with a form reply or just told that it’s none of your business, even though you’re forced by law to pay for the BBC if you want to watch any sort of television.
Still, at least he did, sort of, answer.
What is unbiased? It is what the BBC does. What does the BBC do? It does unbiased. What does everyone else do? Not what the BBC does – therefore they are biased.
If you are not BBC, ex-BBC or wannabe-BBC you are evil or possibly foreign (much the same thing).
“Unlike the BBC, they exist to promote a cause,” is an appalling lie too, or just another one really. He’s accountable to no one, has no professional ethic or conscience even.
BBC and BBC Scotland exist only to take down SNP Scots gov, denigrate and diminish Scottish democracy and ultimately force a red or blue tory Scots FM, like Colonel Ruth, on their Scotland region.
Robinson lied on BBC television, about the First Minister of Scotland, and came away unscathed.
Robinson exposed the bbc for what they do, which is to orchestrate a narrative to suit their own agenda, and that of those they work for, ie the UK government.
The BBC narrative is a blatant propaganda tool, and it works, so they keep on doing it.
Robinson acted in a totally undemocratic manner, and displayed absolute disrespect for Alex Salmond. Alex Salmond, an intelligent and top notch politician. Robinson and his ilk could never hold a candle to him.
Robinson and his BBC are a disgrace.
Yay.
Gives a bad name to cunts.
Hats off for your persistence, Rev. And what feeble tweets in reply: TDLIUT indeed.
I used to find Skinner pretty creepy but he certainly skewered old Asbestos Pants on that occasion.
Hislop, fearless satirist and lampooner of The Establishment (at least in his own wee head), just revealed himself again to be nothing more than a state licensed jester who falls into line when his lead gets tugged.
Still loved the episode when Merton reminded him he was actually Welsh. Ian looked most uncomfortable.
He is a comic though with his, BBC has strict editorial rules that are enforced. He got a fcuking promotion, for monstering Salmond alone presumably.
He’s now the anchor of BBC r4 vote tory Today show, several million listeners every day, 3 hours of vote tory propaganda farted out from 6 am, all of it focused entirely on England and a lot of cricket, whatever that is.
You’ve been a bad boy Nic, so we’re enforcing our strict BBC editorial rules, by giving you a BBC promotion. Dont do it again:D
Great what you find under stones Tinto?
If the BBC consider you one of their own or someone they value you’re protected
How many years did they spend protecting Savile until the only excuse they could come up with was
We didnae know honest! so this is a small lie for the BBC and they’ll continue to defend it coz at the end of the day
It’s only about Jockland so who cares
Come on now, of course the BBC is neutral and impartial. They don’t care who they have on to say: “SNP Baaaddd!”
Well it’s meally mouthed crap like that from Mr Robinson that means I don’t pay the BBC extortion money.
I only wish more would change their viewing habits and quite legally avoid paying the wages of so called journalists like Mr Robinson.
Be advised that 10% of households* no longer pay the telly tax in Scotland. Please do join them.
*Confirmed by the BBC themselves
Good job, Rev! Keep on doing what you’re doing. You watch BBC tripe so I don’t have to. Thanks.
I cancelled my TV license so I can’t watch live TV but still listen to radio, but never BBC radio in Scotland. It makes me nauseous.
Good old Nick was squirming away there. He,he!
There can be no lack of bias when a broadcaster is so thoroughly intertwined with the State. Top officials appointed to the BBC board, many with a political background do not inspire belief in impartiality.
This began many years ago when the State utilised the BBC as a vehicle for propoganda purposes and subsequently they have become ever more interwoven.
I no longer believe them about anything.
Dr Jim says:
3 October, 2017 at 11:04 am
If the BBC consider you one of their own or someone they value you’re protected
You are extremely well rewarded by the BBC for your loyalty to, well planet toryboy really.
BBC Scotland hacks were very prominent in BBC Scotland’s anti indy campaign 2014. This guy for example is now the BBC world correspondent for the whole of the American continent, over 330 million people. His colleague Laura less so, focused more on Washington politics, the world’s biggest democracy. You get extremely well rewarded for your sterling work at Pacific Quay, Glesga.
https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook
https://twitter.com/BBCLBicker
The BBC are nothing more than a social engineering experiment for the SIS. Anything that upsets their applecart will be set about.
If Nick Robinson was ever on Desert Island Discs he would be known as Nick Crusoe.
I’m sorry, that was an attempt at BBC standard reporting.
Ha ha ha ha ha
I think he regrets the lie or the lie and being caught, and I would be able to consider his opinion in the future if he admitted the lie and the agenda behind it. Until that I disregard everything he says as irrelevant and untrustworthy.
Aye big f/n joke eh Nick .
Taking the Jackie Baillie out of the people who waste their time trying to complain to the bbc , even they in the end figure out complaints are filed in a dustbin .
No, he didn’t answer. It’d also be pretty strange if the BBC didn’t have an interest in the promotion of the UK. People being people, if the orthodoxy and the paymaster are the state, then it follows that prominent members of staff within an organisation will follow the orthodoxy. (bit of a DUH thing there) I have no problem with that.
The problem occurs when you pretend to be something you’re not and the BBC is not a disinterested or objective party by any stretch. Personal or individual bias, institutional bias, inept management, lack of professional standards, call it what you will. It doesn’t matter. It exists and people are after all people. They’re not beyond bias or screw up. They put their socks on one foot at a time like the rest of us.
The whole episode from Mr Robinson on the subject of loss of trust in the mainstream reeks of a ‘help me Rona’ moment. Good! I can’t think of a better compliment for those who work to create a new media.
Well, it was a response and wasn’t nasty. Vaccuous, but not nasty.
I generally view most reporters etc. as talking heads. So I’m not sure at which point I should accept them as spokespersons for their organisation.
Interesting as such dialogue with reporters is, if only to glean an insight into working practice and mindset of the reporter. It appears to me they are a shield.
Are there any media conversations or responses for those responsible for the actual output? I’m not on Twitter, so perhaps there is.
Certainly, employees of any business are representatives of that business. Their attitudes and actions are deemed a reflection of the business and the management of that business, unless otherwise corrected, by say a public rebuke or rebuttal.
I’ve seen no such public rebuke or rebuttal, nor any indication that this reporter does not speak for the BBC on such matters, or indeed is not a spokesman for the BBC.
Ergo Nick Robinson’s views are the views of the BBC & he speaks for them in a media public relations capacity.
I may infer he is always speaking in a personal capacity online and his views are “not neccasarily those of the BBC” but this is not clear. Especially with an address of @bbcnickrobinson.
Naturally, my not being aware of an event does not preclude it. Was there a response to these issues by an official spokesperson? Is there such an entity as a public relations media spokesperson?
Should the dialogue be with these entities?
Meh…
Robinson is a proven, demonstrable liar, a man party to probably the most bare-faced, in plain sight instance of mendacity in the history of the corrupt BBC (and he’s up against some pretty stiff competition). A lie that itself alone should have had the BBC closed for good.
And his responses above show he knows it.
The BBC is bound by Royal Charter to promote unity within Britain. As such, they are compelled to resist, undermine and frustrate Scottish democracy and self-determination.
The BBC is a tool of neo-colonial cultural imperialism, simples.
N.B. Contemporary British nationalism is actually an expansionist form of English nationalism, innit.
Strange use of Language this BBC Scotland uses.
Any story that is critical of the SNP ( thats all of them ) has weeks of exposure .
Any story that shows the progress the SNP are making regarding for instance the infrastructure of this country , Always includes the word ” BUT ” BUT is the word always associated with the SNP.
On the other hand the total aversion to the word Labour when they report on PFI , School buildings unfit for use , Edinburgh Tram fiasco and subsequent inquiry , there is a long list of failures, yet the BBC bend over backwards in order to make sure no reference to this party sees the light of day they dont exist
Just coincidence ? or a government organisation with one agenda this organ of the state will never recover any trust as with Nick everything will be treated as propaganda , just as Pravda was laughed at by Russians at least the majority of their public knew they told lies, we have a lot of people here who still believe the pish they broadcast .Stupid or just ignorant who knows .
I dunno. Beneath the HIGNFY chuckles, you could see dim recognition in the beady little eyes that in journalistic terms, Nick Robinson is a dead career walking.
Yes Nick, even your own BBC people are taking the piss out of you on prime time, because you’re a liar, and there’s no defamation in saying so because the whole world knows that it’s true.
The journalist caught lying is like the policeman caught stealing, or the lawyer caught embezzling, or the stockbroker found out insider dealing. You need a new career Mr Robinson, because you’re no longer a journalist but a “journalist”.
I was at the hall in Perth where Nick Robinson was booed when he appeared on the balcony. It was the eve of the referendum and Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon were inspiring the troops.
Up pops Nick Robinson and quite rightly in my opinion the crowd made their displeasure with his outright lie of “he did not answer” known. How he thought he could get away with such a bare faced lie in this digital age is a total mystery.
He did disappear in a hurry mind you.
Heedtracker @ 11.20am
James Cook called out Ruth Davidson on live TV debate re a leaked email from RBS… “Just for the record, I received that email and I didn’t request it”.
A further interview long after indyref1 revealed that he took impartiality so seriously, that even his wife doesn’t know who he votes for.
There are a few at BBC Scottish branch office who made an effort to be neutral, in my view James Cook was one of them.
Perhaps the question to Nick should be “Why should people believe you (A proven liar) over thousands of decent people who have canceled their TV license because they don’t want to pay to be lied to”
@Robert Graham
So true Robert as in the use of “BUT critics say” Don’t pay the telly tax dump the licence. Spread the word, the BBC lie to you.
If you can help out Inform Scotland with their fundraiser, halfway there so far.
https://www.gofundme.com/battleBBCbias
Nice piece of journalism there, Stu.
Some so call journalists need to look and learn.
Liars are willing to lie about whether or not they are lying. Presumably they believe they can sometimes get away with lying. Otherwise, what would be the point of trying to deceive?
However, they seem to miss the obvious logic – once proven a liar, people will take the view that nothing they say can be trusted, And perhaps even, everything they say is best ignored.
For a great many people, the BBC and many of their minions have now achieved that status.
I don’t think I can forgive people like Nick Robinson who casually lie and manipulate opinion to further the interests of a bunch of thieves in Westminster. He was dishonest and self-serving with his “he didn’t answer”.
The BBC occupies a space which ought to be filled by a Scottish Broadcasting Service which produces content of interest to Scottish people. £320 m a year of licence fee money and all we get is rubbish.
I watched Outlander series 3 on Amazon Prime last night – an excellent drama which the BBC would never broadcast.
Mr. Robinson almost certainly appreciates the role he plays in prompting the New Right. His actions are intentional, which suggest he opposes the principle of universal human rights.
The man lacks moral fiber and human empathy, frankly.
http://scholars.wlu.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=soci_faculty
We enthusiastically watched Outlander, but it became, like so many other series, like a sexual exploits manual. In context perhaps, but one episode displayed little else. Often imagination or allusion, as in a closing door, is more effective than actually being in bed with them.
However, little wonder it was delayed for a while: the British don’t come out very well.
There are a few at BBC Scottish branch office who made an effort to be neutral, in my view James Cook was one of them.
I profoundly disgree with that but hey, that’s democracy. None of them are neutral in any way at all, exact opposite in fact.
For example “incredible scenes” Cooke, was there at the great Jim Murphy St Enoch’s square riots, consisting of a few hacks and SLab activists basically.
Cooke’s BBC Scotland reportage was core to the great BBC Scotland smear campaign involving their French Embassador tragedy, when FM Sturgeon told the French that she hoped Cameron would win that GE they reported. You can do this all day with any beeb gimp like this. Bicker was subtle but just as prominent.
Here’s Cooke doing a Robinsonesian pre monstering of anyone that talked back.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/05/james-cook-nicola-sturgeon_n_7006348.html
If anything BBC Scotland radio is even more visceral in its anti SNP and Scottish democracy bias.
In the year run up to 18th Sept 2014, from 6 am, the Good Morning Scotland region crew were horrific in their start the BBC SNP bad news day bias, but they did ease off a bit as their broadcast day wore on.
Face facts. BBC has over 400,000 liggers all pounding away at us to vote tory, worship the royals, all across this shithead union.
Is it really by chance that the chief BBC gimps in London gave a couple of regional hacks, from their Scotland region, THE very top BBC jobs in the USA, when they have literally hundreds of thousands of beeb gimps all vying for these top jobs?
Tune in to any BBC foreign correspondent show from all over the planet and almost all the BBC hacks you hear and watch are double barrel surnamed Ruperts, all very posh, all upper class English, apart that is, from Laura and James, from bbc radio Scotland, covering the whole of American continent.
I am over egging this:D
Bias is everywhere and the BBC’s pretence that they are neutral on a great range of issues is a falsehood. The Mail etc. make no such pretence, they are fiercely partisan.
The choice of what is newsworthy, the order that items are placed, the prominence or not given to the voice of critics of an issue all colour perception of a news story. BBC Scotland in particular treat every press release by opposition parties as headline news and read it out uncritically. Often with no debate on the matter at all.
The notion that BBC journalism is better is a myth, trading on past glories. The BBC is at best mediocre and at worst simply a reactionary voice for the status quo.
What Scotland needs as an integral part of Higher English is media (MSM and Social) deconstruction so that people can critically assess what they are being told.
Gotta love Daily Politics…
They have the guy on who challenged Rees Mogg yesterday, and who do the BBC get on to debate with him defending the government ?
Tim fecking Stanley !!
A right wing rag churnalist….!!
Beyond parody.
The declining Scotsman newspaper is not the BBC I know, but the two Brian’s come to mind – Wilson and Monteith. The content of their column rants are so predictable they are no longer worth reading. Both come with baggage just like Robinson does.
What Scotland needs as an integral part of Higher English is media (MSM and Social) deconstruction so that people can critically assess what they are being told.
And not, told that is. One of their greatest strengths is simply blacking out anything that might be negative about planet toryboy’s reign over Scotland, or positive about Scottish democracy.
Catalan at the weekend was a horrible display of BBC tory bias and black out. Maybe it was all just too much for our frail little minds, they decided. As opposed to the Spanish state actually trying to provoke a civil war in Catalonia, which they know they can easily win.
Nick Robinson, the BBC, can’t wait for the day when people like Theresa May shuts down sites like Wings and the Canary to give them a free hand in brainwashing not just the populace of the UK, but the world overall. The corrupt cabal including wee Nick.
?’Rona Fairhead Theresa Mugabe BBC Nick Robinson Robbie Gibb running a Tory Govt Cartel Swiss Bank.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et9kJw8OePM
……………………………….
And I’m bringing over this link posted by Nana on the last article.
Take a read at comments made by South Thanet MP Craig Mackinlay at the Tory Conference. They had the steam coming RIGHT out of my ears. That just about sums it up for me. Why we have to get out of this disfunctional Union, ASAP.
He told a fringe event at the party’s Autumn conference in Manchester that British people should in future fill the jobs vacated by European workers after Brexit.
He says, “I was struggling to think why wouldn’t a youngster from Glasgow without a job come down to the south to work for a farm for the summer with loads of gorgeous EU women working there. What’s not to like? Get on your bike and find a job.”
http://uk.businessinsider.com/tory-mp-tells-unemployed-brits-to-get-on-your-bike-and-work-on-farms-with-gorgeous-eu-women-2017-10
Holy crap. I’m in that picture!!!
O/T and maybe quite boring but…
was looking at the ISO list of country codes and there seems to be quite a few on there that are not independent e.g American Samoa, Antarctica, Aland Islands, Isle of Man, Greenland, Gibraltar etc.
Scotland is not there. It would be nice to have our own code. Small steps an all that.
ISO has left plenty of room for expansion too so maybe they are expecting some new countries 🙂
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#search/code/
Joe of the Courts @ 12.22
RE Outlander
While I agree that the BBC will never Broadcast it.
And I am still very suspicions (if true) of the role BBC2 played in delaying it being available here at all.
I can’t see where you are getting just another TV series only concerned with who is jumping into bed with who?
This story is about power and control especially within a political context,but also within and between the gender’s.
As the story move’s on it also looks at repercussions of these experience’s war/class/violence/loyalt/betrayal ect affect the characters for decade’s.
To do this it uses “a version “of the story of Culloden and a marriage.
And on that note can I point out that the Only intimate scenes that were consensual were between a married couple.
As for being anti English….. Well the main protagonist is actually English as is the very decent gay guy,and his upstanding family.
Some of the occupying soldiers were pretty human too.
If the English in general are portrayed as being nasty that’s because they were and because they could….. Which is kind of the point about power!
All I can sayin keep watching and try and mind that married people do do that sometimes.
Rev., re. the BBC’s duty to promote Yoonion. It is hard to support the cohesion of a unitary sate and respect the principle of universal human rights at the same time.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/577829/57964_CM_9365_Charter_Accessible.pdf
Oops. I’ve just spotted Dr Craig Dalzell beat me too it. 🙂
Goebbels would have been a great admirer of HIGNFY.
It’s the BBC’s flagship for indoctrinating the masses through the use of “light entertainment”.
“Rapier-like wit” and “comedic banter” are time-honoured tools for influencing political opinion. Anyone who dares point this out is quickly slapped down with: “but we’re only joking!!” and “can’t you even take a joke?!”
Sadly, many people are too thick to realise shows like HIGNFY and The Great British…[insert your candy of choice here] are only there to maintain the illusion that we’re all “British”.
These are by far the most important propaganda weapons the in their armoury. “News” and “current affairs” are a long way down the list.
?’Rona Fairhead Theresa Mugabe BBC Nick Robinson Robbie Gibb running a Tory Govt Cartel Swiss Bank.’
Tory cartel is a neat way of putting it. Look Neil Oliver getting made President of the National Trust Scotland for example. Ultra yoon beeb gimp, very hard core NO, now runs one of Scotland’s most prominent cultural heritage bodies.
However will Oliver set about his new presidency, surrounded by so much cancers, like us?
Nick lied and then continues to lie about it.
I keep thinking we are missing the other salient point in his original exchange with Alex.
NR also broke the law by receiving sensitive financial information passed to him by someone present at the Banks Board meeting who released the info (to Nick?), before the Board officially voted on it and released it to the press.
The Financial Reg. Authority should have opened an investigation into this as Alex pointed out in his answer.
His lie was a cover-up.
Seem to remember it was the son of Lord Darlings advisor who leaked the sensitive financial info.
Does anyone remember if there was an Inquiry?
O/T
Latest BBC News: Rajoy is working on implementing the Spanish Constitution’s Article 155 which will allow him a final recourse option of suspending Catalonia’s semi-autonomy.
@Truth says: 3 October, 2017 at 11:07 am:
“I only wish more would change their viewing habits and quite legally avoid paying the wages of so called journalists like Mr Robinson.”
I’m really getting tired of pointing out the truth, Truth.
But here we go yet again:-
Licence fee payers DO NOT pay to finance the BBC or pay BBC ligger’s wages.
They pay to get permission from the de facto parliament of England to watch any live video broadcast from any source.
Read what it says on the licence, (if you happen to have an old one lying about).
Furthermore the fee money does NOT GO to the BBC – it goes directly into HM Treasury – it is only collected by the BBC on behalf of the Treasury, (actually that job is now outsourced by the BBC to a profit making private company).
The BBC are directly funded by a grant made to them by the Westminster, de facto, (unelected as such), parliament of the country of England that calls itself, “The United Kingdom Government”, and by the sale of programmes, recorded music, video and other productions including news and other services throughout the World. They also run The BBC World Service World Wide. Not forgetting other services like regulating private commercial broadcast licences like Taxi service radio, etc.
This UK Government is factually run as the de Facto Parliament of England, (the country), masquerading as the United Kingdom but devolving English powers on the basis of country rather than Kingdom. The proofs of this are that Westminster operates EVEL and the only two Kingdoms united by the Treaty of Union are the kingdoms of Scotland and England, (Remember the Kingdom of England consists of three countries).
So in fact the BBC do not give a damn whether the Scots pay the de facto Parliament of the country of England’s Licence fee for the de facto parliament of the country of England government, (that calls itself the UK government), will continue to pay their propaganda department, (the BBC), as they always have, by an agreed Government grant from the UK Treasury.
All this shite about the viewers paying the BBC is no more than BBC (a.k.a. Westminster), propaganda.
In short, Truth, the de facto parliament of the country of England and their propaganda agency, (The BRITISH, Broadcasting Corporation), want you to think that the viewers pay for the BBC. Their propaganda has worked for you believe their lies.
The BBC is a private corporation and it sells programmes, and many other items and services for profits. It also gets a UK Government annual grant to pay for the propaganda it spreads for the de facto parliament of England.
And, Truth, That’s the truth.
Nick Robinson is part of the westminster machine, and as such will not do anything that severely or fatally damages it. Maintenance of the union is part of job description, if he or others strayed, they’d be out of a job tout suite!
Nick and his like refer to westminster as the mother of all parliaments, he needs to look at Scottish questions from a Scottish perspective and then reassess his views!!
Outlander
It was David Cameron (not the BBC) who requested that Outlander was not released in the U.K. At the time of the referendum.
His reason was that it showed the Scots in a good light and the ruling class English in a less good light.
It certainly does that, although individual English, including the heroine, are shown as fine people.
It is ironic that the last people to see it are the Scots, despite it being filmed in Scotland, and most of the locations are within an hour’s drive of Edinburgh or Glasgow.
Worth a trip to Midhope Castle, Blackness Castle, Preston Mill or Hopetoun House, and if you don’t subscribe to Amazon you can get it on Thursdays, on More4.
Yes, there is a lot of sex as well as violence.
In Catalonia the Spanish state used force of arms to try and prevent self-determination by democracy. As if it were war.
The United Kingdom state mainly relied on another tactic: propaganda / disinformation.
A leading agency of the UK Govt to spread disinformation and UK propaganda is the BBC. One of the main BBC propagandist agents of the BBC is Nick Robinson.
That hasn’t changed.
One of the reasons why I think an indyref is not the best method of achieving independence. A YES campaign has no answer to the power of the BBC to mislead and lie for the UK.
But, if indyref is going to happen, we need to have learned from the mistakes and weaknesses of the 2014 campaign and find answers to them.
We must also recognise the arguments and situation has changed from 2014 and have new answers.
First words on BBC Scotland politics page
‘The violence during the independence referendum in Catalonia’
Typical weasel BBC words. Technically correct but… insinuation by omission. Omitting to mention the violence was inflicted by armed paramilitary police on unarmed civilians peacefully going out to vote.
@Bob Mack says: 3 October, 2017 at 11:16 am:
“This began many years ago when the State utilised the BBC as a vehicle for propoganda purposes and subsequently they have become ever more interwoven.”
The truth is, Bob Mack, that the BBC has been the Westminster propaganda wing since day one of Radio Broadcasting beginning. Indeed the BBC was begun as a Westminster excuse to prevent the same situation as was, (and still is), in force in the USA. Where it was/is a free for all with the richest broadcasters overpowering their smaller and poorer rivals.
If the wee company is outdoing them the big broadcasters just stick up a few bigger aerials and up their transmitted power to drown out the opposition.
The truth, though, is that Westminster Licenced the listening and viewing so the government controlled what the listener/viewer gets to hear/view. They also make an annual grant of some of the licence fee to the BBC and then have their propaganda wing brainwash the public to believe the public, not the government, pays for the BBC.
@heedtracker
it was according to BBC @ James Cook
`Absolute chaos on the streets of Glasgow as Jim Murphy and Eddie Izzard try to be heard over protestors` (his spelling),
on his twitter profile he has, “Facts are chiels that winna ding”.
I remember seeing him outside at the `service of reconciliation` on 21st Sept 2014 St Giles Edinburgh,laughing and shaking hands with all the Brutish Nationalists,
it was never reconciliation between Scot and Unionist it turned into
a service of celebration for the Brutish Nationalist.
David McDowell says:
I agree completely. Branding things UKish/British sends a continual background oft subliminal message. And I’m sure the less astute don’t see it. You are ‘British’ and ‘Britain’ is your country! It’s like hypnotic eyes everywhere!
It’s a widespread approach. Driving licenses, for instance. On and on. And it’s not just Government controlled institutions. Big corporations reinforce it, perhaps knowingly, perhaps just going with the propaganda themselves.
Here’s an example I’ve highlighted before …
Do a search on Google.co.uk
Now do a search on Google.ie
The world through Irish eyes from a US corporation,
Just imagine how different it would be if all ISPs defaulted to a google.scot !
His lie was a cover-up.
Its what they do, cover up. Continuing on my, why did the BBC give two BBC Scotland liggers the top BBC USA jobs…
Stuff what they just do not report on, from the USA. Beeb gimp network is ofcourse very pro orange Hitler and his cabinet have hit the usual expense scandal headlines over there,
http://fortune.com/2017/09/29/va-chief-travel-expense-scandal/
In August, U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin and his wife reportedly used a government plane to travel to Lexington, Ky. to watch the solar eclipse, a trip that came to light after Mnuchin’s wife, Louise Linton boasted on Instagram about traveling with her husband on a government plane.
Mnuchin has denied that he took the trip to view the eclipse. He has also said claims about him requesting the use of a government jet during his honeymoon with Linton earlier this year were about national security.”
They actually honeymooned in Scotland but this is just another super rich Wall Street banker and his wife Louise Linton, a very prominent in the vote NO campaign in Scotland 2014.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-scots-actress-louise-4035275
Did you know about their expenses scandal? You do now, just not via the beeb tory gimp network.
…_____
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@Robert Peffers
Genuinely that’s the first time I have personally seen you point this out, and I do enjoy your posts.
However, the TV licence payment IS a tax. The last Labour government reclassified it as such in order to remove it from the basket of goods that calculated the inflation figure. It suited their purposes at the time to do so.
Therefore even if what you say is true, and I don’t doubt that it is, any reduction in tax received by the treasury will make that grant to the BBC, that bit more painful. And indirectly you can quite legitimately conclude that you aren’t paying their wages.
Also, is a statutory corporation really a private company? Probably closer to a public company surely?
O/T
14.20hrs
For statement from the Scottish Parliament on #Fracking
https://www.scottishparliament.tv/
Here is something that seems to be flying over many Winger’s heads.
Nick Robinson is also, besides a direct BBC employee, a private, profits making, production company that sells its productions to the BBC. One wonders just how much of the BBC’s own equipment is used by that private production company to produce the programmes that Robinson then not only sells to the BBC but throughout the World.
One also wonders how much Robinson earns in copyright fees for those, and the also the BBC’s own productions, he takes part in that are sold on by the BBC World Wide?
Here’s Mrs Mnuchin, as she is never reported here, in Scotland, where she prominently campaigned to stop Scotland becoming a nation state, 2014.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/08/louise-linton-instagram
Let Them Eat Valentino
MNUCHIN’S WIFE GOES FULL MARIE ANTOINETTE IN INSTAGRAM MELTDOWN
The millionaire wife of the millionaire Treasury secretary bragged about how much they pay in taxes and accused a critic of being “adorably out of touch.”
BY BESS LEVIN
AUGUST 22, 2017 3:42 PM
I’m not saying that Cook and Bicker decide that this kind of tory reality, in the USA, should not be reported back to the country that they are paid to report back to, from the USA, but ofcourse they do.
And Mrs Mnuchin will be back for Scots ref2 too, her American Marie Antoinette label nowhere to be seen.
Glamaig@2:01pm
This morning I heard some BBC Radio Scotland tw*t saying: “The violence caused by the independence referendum in Catalonia”
Disgraceful.
“However, the TV licence payment IS a tax.”
I’d go as far as to say it racketeering, on a scale that Al Capone would’ve been proud of.
The BBC could quite easily go down the same road as Sky tv and encrypt their channels. Leading to pay as you view.
However the BBC knows fine that millions would not pay to view their propaganda, so they, the government, and the courts, make sure you pay the enforced tax, or receive a fine.
I also have doubts as to where the huge somes of money via the tv licence goes to. I’d wager it’s not all reinvested in programming.
Lanarkist @ 1.52
I don’t remember if there was an enquiry but I agree that Roberson was the distraction that allowed the illegal stuff to go under the wire….but he did it in the full knowledge IMHO….that the BBC would have his back.
…………….
OT…but not sorry,this is for me a local issue and I can’t let a hint of “the cringe” go without comment!
But won’t get into a debate that derailed the thread I just think a clarification of my earlier post is necessary….
Fireproofjim @ 1.57
You are correct that David Cameron met with Sony to discuss not releasing Outlander in the summer of 2014.
This was confirmed by documents wiki leeks made public.
And lo and behold the show wasn’t picked up …..
But the gossip on the fan sites (some of which included the author)was that BBC2 were in talks to get it and it would likely be on our TV by December 2014.
Then in December 2014 BBC2 unexpectedly, and to this day inexplicably pulled out.
This ment it was delayed for another few months,till Amazon bought it.
Now …..my pet theory about all this is that…
Sony agreed (for concessions on copy right law allegedly) to keep it back till after our referendum,and when the Scot’s were back in their box,the SNP in chaos and the Union secure!
Then BBC2 would broadcast it….
Except the Yes campaign surged….and that’s why BBC2 pulled out,at the very last minute they could get away with!
And also why it has a very muted response from the MSM now.
And just as an FYI the only bit of censorship I spotted in the more4 broadcast was the phrase “you Scottish C**t” but I didn’t catch the other episode where the C word was used so I can’t say for certain which word was the actual sensitive one!
I didn’t know that about Robinson Ltd, Peffers, but since the BBC are bent as a nine-bob note it doesn’t surprise me.
Does anyone know if they still invest £millions in facebook as part of their staff pension scheme? Not that it would ever influence their tone in news coverage, or the amount of articles. No, no.
If any big political stories develop the BBC sends in Jon Sopel, Cook knows his place.
Scottish Government bans Fracking.
O/T Just listened to the end of the minister’s statement announcing a ban on fracking. Well done Paul Wheelhouse – a firm decision at last. Let’s hope he survives the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the Tory business community and their rabid press.
Jamie Green livid, of course.
So pleased with announcement on fracking, got involved in campaigns locally, and I was briefly on BBC, representing the local group!!!
Had to argue and fight on behalf of SNP, that they would do the rules gut thing, but there was a proper scientific route to go down.
This is a fantastic outcome. Poor folk in Lancashire are fighting every day.
Yes, we will have lots of gnashing from Tory types, but f”k ’em, this is an important environmental protection.
I hope Mr. Robinson appreciates the damage his ego continues to do to the ‘credibility’ of output from the BBC? Why would the BBC’s management countenance such a liability to their institutional reputation? The answer is, of course, the BBC’s practice lacks ethical integrity, simples.
Spongebob Squarepants – When I Ripped My Pants
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gt9yt9h7GU
@Truth says: 3 October, 2017 at 2:18 pm:
“Genuinely that’s the first time I have personally seen you point this out, and I do enjoy your posts.
However, the TV licence payment IS a tax”
No, Truth, The Licence fee is exactly what it says on the licence. The clue is in the title, “Licence”.
Here is the definition of the term, “Licence”. It is both a noun and a verb:-
In this instance the UK Government is accepting payment to allow the Licence Holder to watch live video broadcasts and that is exactly what it states on the actual licence paper the viewer is issued with.
From the outset the UK government gave the job of collecting the Licence fee to the BBC, who also do many other jobs on behalf of the UK government and also collect and regulate Ham Radio Licences, private Radio networks for such as Police, Armed forces and emergency services, shipping and aircraft.
The BBC are also who deals with cases of radio frequency interference and such like. That includes satellites and even space communications.
However, the point is that the licence fee goes to the Treasury and not to the BBC.
The BBC sell their stuff on the open market. You can buy BBC programmes or just clips, music recordings and so on and the BBC sells World Wide.
The UK government pays the BBC for the services they provide and that includes a grant for broadcasting TV & Radio services. BTW: Part of the conditions for commercial Broadcasters obtaining a licence to broadcast is that they must include news, weather and other public service broadcasts – including party political broadcasts.
As I stated already, the UK government pays a grant to the BBC and does not directly allow the BBC to retain the licence fee money and the BBC will get that grant even if no one were to pay for a licence.
It is, and always has been, a scam to get Joe & Josephine Public to pay for the UK government propaganda that Westminster wants them to believe and the fact most people believe their licence fee pays for the TV programmes they receive is the result of pure BBC/Westminster propaganda.
Paul Wheelhouse has announced plans to ban fracking, saying in a statement to MSP’s that it “cannot and will not”, take place in Scotland.
………..
As was always the case, the SNP were just waiting on the power to be fully devolved before acting on fracking.
Of course the 3 unionist goonshows will ask why the SG didn’t do this sooner.
They will of course forget to mention the consequences of banning fracking without the legal powers to do so.
Consequences all 3 would have happily welcomed just to score political points.
As always, SNP waaay to smart for the 3 thick, Scotland hating unionist parties.
Tories will be pure fumin’…
Sky drooling over Boris’s upcoming speech/leadership challenge.
Kay Burley …”we will be covering every syllable of the speech”
Bit creepy tbh.
Boris’s dad just called Boris “the father of brexit”…pass the sick bucket…boak!!
@NickRobinson c/o the BBC
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1742715008095189
For me the real giveaway was that Nick Robinson, former Young Conservative and so-called journalist, had two meeetings with then PM David Cameron on August 28 and 31 shortly before jetting north to heckle Alex Salmond at an international press conference in the final fortnight of the referendum.
As a supposed journalist, fair enough, you might say, to have interviewed one of the signatories of the Edinburgh Agreement (albeit only a protagonist-by-proxy in the referendum itself), but if he was truly impartial and doing his job properly, surely he would also as a matter of course have interviewed the other signatory, and actual protagonist, Mr. Salmond, as well?
Instead his chosen form of engagement with Mr. Salmond was to harangue him from the floor of a press conference then blatantly lie about it on the BBC directly thereafter.
One can only wonder what was actually discussed during those two meetings between Robinson and Cameron. But a strong smell of fish continues to linger around it.
@ Valerie says at 3:07 pm ….. ”… Had to argue and fight on behalf of SNP, that they would do the rules gut thing, but there was a proper scientific route to go down…”
And if Labour, such as Dugdale, had got it’s way the SG would have been inundated with legal actions and no doubt lost. What on earth were they playing at?
………………………….
The BBC Trust was shut down on 2 April 2017. Does anyone know where Sir Roger Carr (Chairman of Bae Systems) is now? Hanging around like a bad smell.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/who_we_are/trustees/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Carr_(businessman)
@glamaig, 1:34
I remember looking at that a while back and meant to fire off an email to the Scottish Government about it. The thing that prompted it was driving through Austria and wondering what had pissed the ISO off that much that Austria’s country code isn’t in its native language like so many others are.
But yes, lots of non-independent territories have their own country code. Including, interestingly, Gibraltar…
Robinson deliberately used the carefully-worded phrase “he didn’t answer” knowing that if challenged he could use the excuse that what he actually meant was that Salmond did speak, but didn’t directly answer to the point put to him. Lo and behold! This was exactly the excuse Robinson used when he was challenged.
We are supposed to be stupid enough to believe that Robinson, being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to write news reports that must be meticulously worded to avoid angering one political faction or another, didn’t realise he was using an ambiguously worded phrase that would enrage Salmond’s support.
We then have to suffer another insult to our intelligence when he jokes about it and denies any deliberate intent to cause mischief on HIGNFY. The booing of Robinson by SNP supporters in Perth tells you they wanted him to know they weren’t stupid enough to swallow his bull.
Cue hysterical news stories about poor, defenceless, little Nick being bullied and intimidated “just for doing his job”. The old propaganda trick of portraying the abuser as the victim and the people he abused as the “evil mob”.
And so it goes on, year after year. The most remarkable thing of all is these same old ploys have been used for centuries yet there are still people around who don’t seem to be able to see how they’re being played for total suckers.
Rees-Mogg rallies young England with an exhortation to remember England’s famous victories at Crecy & Agincourt in the Hundred Years War, omitting to mention that the French gubbed them completely at Castillon! End of Hundred Years War. 🙂 Shakespeare has much to answer for.
On another matter entirely, we learn that a nuclear submarine commander faces court-martial for engaging in horizontal-refreshments with a member of the crew! Nothing new in that! I hear you say but this time it’s a wummin!
What social impact might the BBC’s lack of ethical integrity result in?
N.B. Symbolic violence does not only target gender, it affect all powerless and vulnerable groups in society. Symblic violence helps to maintain the state of structural violence that is implicit in the status quo.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Maria_Isabel_Menendez_Menendez2/publication/270450215_Cultural_Industries_and_Symbolic_Violence_Practices_and_Discourses_that_Perpetuate_Inequality/links/54aa9b140cf2ce2df668a626/Cultural-Industries-and-Symbolic-Violence-Practices-and-Discourses-that-Perpetuate-Inequality.pdf
Symbolic Violence and Structural Violence
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Maria_Isabel_Menendez_Menendez2/publication/270450215_Cultural_Industries_and_Symbolic_Violence_Practices_and_Discourses_that_Perpetuate_Inequality/links/54aa9b140cf2ce2df668a626/Cultural-Industries-and-Symbolic-Violence-Practices-and-Discourses-that-Perpetuate-Inequality.pdf
https://academic.oup.com/sf/article-abstract/79/2/419/2233963/Generic-Processes-in-the-Reproduction-of?redirectedFrom=fulltext
@Andy-B says: 3 October, 2017 at 2:33 pm:
“I’d go as far as to say it racketeering, on a scale that Al Capone would’ve been proud of.”
No one that matters is going to a argue with that statement, Andy-B.
“The BBC could quite easily go down the same road as Sky tv and encrypt their channels.”
Well no they can’t, Andy-B.
The BBC Charter won’t allow that and the BBC has no say in the matter. As I keep harping on about, the actual fact is the BBC IS NOT funded by the Licence fee but directly by a UK Government grant. Furthermore that grant pays for many more services than the public BBC Radio & TV broadcasts.
Their charter makes them legally liable to broadcast news traffic and political matters to the public. BTW: ther is also a clause in the commercial broadcaster’s licences that they too are legally bound to broadcast News, weather Party political broadcasts and such like.
Multi-Channel services like BskyB can get away with encrypting some channels but must maintain their news, weather, shipping and other public service broadcasts un-encrypted. They do so by maintaining 24 Hour News Channels and can thus meet their legal commitment while encrypting film, sports and entertainment only channels as pay per-view.
“However the BBC knows fine that millions would not pay to view their propaganda, so they, the government, and the courts, make sure you pay the enforced tax, or receive a fine.”
Nope! You get fined for viewing any form of live video broadcast whether vie an aerial or via on-line internet. Read the damned licence, Andy-B.
It tells you that you are being licenced, that is you have permission, (not from the BBC but from the UK Government), to view live video Broadcasts from any source.
Well done, Valerie. We owe you.
lol at neil oliver
Jum Murphy? @JumMurphy
Petition to remove loudmouth divisive long haired gobshite from National Trust position removed from website
Valerie @ 3.07
Great news indeed Valerie…. But you can also take a bow my friend.
I know how hard you and your compatriots campaigned to keep it out of Scotland.
Well done and Thank You
If Boris Johnston’s speech is anything to go by, making May look like a gormless, anti-social stookie, he’s going to be the next PM. God help us all.
Schrodingers cat apparently out of the hundreds of thousands of members they have only had around 400 protesting e-mails to date –
Just read a news article on doings in the European Parliament.
The headline is:- MEPs urge Brexit trade talks delay.
The MEPs have voted to urge the EU not to open the next Brexit talks unless there is a, “Major Breakthrough”.
The motion was backed by 557 MEPs and rejected by 92: there were 29 abstentions.
It rather looks like Theresa’s impassioned speech the other day fell upon deaf ears.
I also see that Catalonia has ground to a halt.
Local Trade Unions called a strike and Barcelona’s port was at a standstill. The people are out in force and roads are blocked and there is little public transport. The strike is called in response to the Spanish Police violence during the referendum.
@Robert Peffers
It may well be called a licence but officially it is now a tax. On this point you are wrong.
I agree it walks and talks like a licence, but as I said before it has officially been classed as a tax as the annual increase was causing new Labour a bit of a problem with the inflation calculation and they needed the house prices to keep rising.
Hey presto it’s a tax and they can’t be included in the basket of goods. Job done and we can all pretend that the bank of England is truly independent again.
I wonder if the recent converts to the Tory party have taken notice of who are the only political party to insist that fracking goes ahead in our country that is awash with oil and gas, indeed so much that the UK government are giving it away just to get shot of it .
The mistaken belief that the Tories are their friends is slowly dissolving before their eyes, this along with the various councillors that have had to be removed from their positions and not removed as would have happened in any other party apparent from the Tory party, this same Tory party they trust, aye one born every minute, just takes a bit longer with Unionists .
What’s your answer to wanting to ruin the country for everyone and for evermore Ruth ? .
@ Robert Peffers wee addition to your post 4.29 . Hotels are cancelling the Spanish Police bookings & putting them out on the streets .
I may be wrong, but a complete ban on fracking may be a challenge to WM daring them to overrule.
I seem to remember the reason why the SG had only shelved fracking, rather than ban it outright, was because banning could challenged.
Possibly there is more to this move than just good environmental policy.
TV Licence:
The BBC have to negotiate on the amount granted to them by the treasury for the BBCs use, if it was a licence they wouldn’t have to do that
That makes it a tax, Scotlands budget is called the block grant but it’s not a grant it’s a proportion of our own money which the English are conned into believing is their money and that’s the way the English government like it, keep em stupid
I’ve just thought of a new game, let’s call it “How the English twist words to suit themselves” starter for ten?
galamcennalath @ 16:38,
Interesting thought. The SG has presumably marshalled the necessary scientific facts behind the decision, and the move also neatly splits the opposition, with the Tories being totally isolated on this one.
(Of course, Labour and the Greens will claim it was “them wot dun it”, but enduring their pathetic claims to fame is a very small price to pay.)
me @ 16:56,
…as will the LibDems.
How could I possibly have forgotten about them? =grin=
ronnie anderson@4:33pm
Apparently some Catalan hotel kitchen workers are slipping strong laxatives into the meals of their Spanish police guests.
A completely immoral and unacceptable thing to do. Here’s hoping the rest of the hotels follow suit.
Boris getting his, British and his UK mixed up again,
He wants the British-U.K. Lion to roar again,
Aye Borris we know you mean engerlund so why not f/n say it, just like the great British bake off and all the other guff that’s labelled British when we all know is English and England,
I wonder when the penny will drop and these British-Scots finally wake up that it’s not British or U.K. That’s being promoted but England and they ain’t invited or involved, poor souls how sad .
Sad individuals ,stateless, no good to Scots and tolerated but not wanted by England , tough shit eh ? .
Robert Graham@5:03pm
Coming soon: “The Great British Joke Off”. My message for them is “The Great British F*** Off”!!
Ban on Fracking. Good
Labour in Scotland have tried, and will continue to try, to promote the idea that this ban had something to do with them and they pushed the SG into it.
Rank hypocrisy as usual.
You just have to look at how they behaved when a UK wide moratorium was proposed in the House of Commons in early 2015 to see how hypocritical they are on the issue. They did not support the idea of a moratorium let alone a ban.
Full account here
http://www.globalenergyblog.com/uk-parliament-votes-against-moratorium-on-fracking-but-there-may-be-a-catch?utm_source=Mondaq&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=View-Original
Lol, the fact that he did get back to you shows everyone he is in your pocket.
O/T but interesting.
https://nation.cymru/2017/labour-for-an-independent-wales-to-hold-first-event/
And let’s not forget the BBC’s role in Sturgeongate.
The BBC also peddled that lie.
There is nothing to say that a licence cannot also be a tax.
There have been many such licences that were/are taxes.
Going back through history there was the infamous, “Window Tax”.
The commonly used phrase “daylight robbery” originates from the opposition to this tax that was certainly seen as a tax on “light and air”. It was really just a licence to have over a certain number of windows in a building. If you did not pay the tax you had to block off some windows. A very unpopular revenue-generator indeed. The Window Tax existed from 1696 to 1851.
When the Act was passed in 1696 it was a tax for the occupiers of the house, not the owner but if the property was empty the owner was liable to pay. William Pitt brought the Window Tax into Scotland in 1784 and to this day blind, bricked up, windows north of the border are called “Pitt’s Pictures”.
It is also often assumed that the, “Road Tax”, paid for Britain’s roads. In fact it never did, in general local taxation, i.e. Council Tax pays for roads and the proceeds from, “Vehicle Excise Duty”, basically the government’s permission to use a vehicle on the roads but actually just a tax on vehicles. Note that everyone called the wee disk on the windscreen the Road tax licence disk.
Anyway, it was indeed a payment for permission to use the roads and it the money into the, “Consolidated Fund”, (That’s the coffers of the Treasury).
The Original, ‘Road tax’ – a ring-fenced pot of cash raised by motorists to be spent on roads – was created in 1909. It was no longer ring-fenced by 1937. Today Trunk Roads and Motorways are paid for by central government and other roads by local Council Tax.
Meanwhile news-bending over Catalonia continues:
http://archive.is/ualgm
“However, only around four in 10 of Catalonia’s population voted, with many anti-separatists apparently choosing to stay at home.”
to dilute the previous statement: “The referendum in the country’s wealthiest region went ahead despite being banned by a Spanish constitutional court, with 90% of those who took part backing a split from Spain.”
with the figure being I believe 42% that actually voted, higher than “four in 10”, and not mentioning a further 700,000 ballots seized for a further 13% who were prevented by the Guardia Civil and “national” police from other regions.
The insidious nature of propaganda by stages.
Robert Peffers says:
Indeed. My understanding is that so called National Insurance is much the same and is just an income tax. I don’t believe the money gathered is ringfenced for any particular function and is just general taxation.
Next propaganda steps against Catalonia:
Only 38% of the population voted for Independence
Only 38% voted for Independence
Just over a third voted for Independence
Only one-third voted for Independence
And so it goes on, truth-bending MSM at its finest.
@galamcennalath says: 3 October, 2017 at 4:38 pm:
“I seem to remember the reason why the SG had only shelved fracking, rather than ban it outright, was because banning could challenged”.
You are correct, galamcennalath, but the challenges that were feared were from court cases raised by the frackers themselves and not from the Westminster Government.
If you remember correctly the SNP were preventing Fracking taking place by the use of local planning permissions and the existing right of the SG to both, “call in”, local Council planning decisions and to overrule them.
As a practice the Scottish Government doesn’t have the devolved powers to just stop fracking. However you could also be correct that the SG are now going to call Westminster’s bluff.
Propaganda by both Commission and Omission.
MSM is all around us.
yesindyref2 says:
The number who voted is known.
The number of stolen votes is known.
And, an unknown number of people were prevented from voting.
It seems reasonable to assume that statistically the stolen votes split like the counted ones.
Those first two alone give a decent YES vote.
Had the vote gone ahead unhindered, can anyone doubt that it would have been a massive YES victory?
However it didn’t due to interference but there is enough firm evidence that the will of the Catalans is Indy.
Anyone, media or politician disagreeing with that is saying that democracy isn’t paramount.
O/T regarding Catalonia.
This weekend, an important milestone was passed, and important boundary between democracy and despotism. People lining up, unarmed, merely to place a vote in a box in their local school, were brutally assaulted, kicked, stamped on and beaten over and over again by armed thugs who call themselves the Guardia Civil. Thugs who hide their faces (no doubt from shame).
I think it is important to realise that the whole world, with precious few honourable exceptions, has sat back and said, ‘well that’s quite all right’.
Slowly and steadily the road to fascism is being traversed in supposedly peaceful democratic countries.
A referendum is not illegal, but it might be argued that acting on a decision from a referendum is illegal, but they are two very different things. Let’s not forget, anybody who wants to can hold a referendum – some may recall that for the very worst of reasons, Brian Souter once used his money to hold a referendum. Nobody said ‘oh, hang on you can’t hold a referendum unless Westminster agrees’.
This notion currently flitting about in Madrid and London that somehow asking the public their opinion via a democratic vote is ‘illegal’ is the biggest lie of the 21st century.
Of course, in Scotland or Catalonia, the respective colonial powers in London or Madrid might say they will not recognise the result or decision, but a referendum is NEVER illegal, except in dictatorships and highly repressed countries. And that is the point, isn’t it. We just watched the EU and world leaders do nothing while the people of Catalonia, pensioners, children, disabled people, women were brutalised with wanton, unnecessary violence by thugs acting at the behest of a small minded failure of a man called Mariano Rajoy, merely because they tried to vote.
Onwards comes the steady march of intolerance and repression. Drip, drip, drip. The day is coming when good people might have to fight to preserve democracy from creeping totalitarianism.
But that can never happen here, can it? Tell that to the people of Catalonia.
Thank you for the interesting article, Robert Kerr. WE live in interesting times …
ON TOPIC: As for HIGNFY, I can confirm that although Hislop shares my nationality, he has a track record of denigrating his own country (as well as yours). He does not speak for me.
And do you all recall this from the actor Ray Winstone, a comment met by hoots of (English) laughter:
“To be fair the Scottish economy has its strengths – its chief exports being oil, whisky, tartan and tramps.”
Satire, be damned! Make a similar comment about any other national community (other than mine, of course) and is nothing but unvarnished racism.
Yours,
O/T Latest re: Catalunya.
King of Spain to broadcast live in rare TV event ‘to the nation’ at 8pm (BST) tonight.
@ Robert Peffers
( Here is something that seems to be flying over many Winger’s heads.)
Nothing much fly’s over Wingers heads Robertson is only one of the many who operate arms length production companies ie Brillo .
Just heard someone on the radio from the GMB ranting about the indefinite fracking moratorium. The Trade Union movement has some bright and capable people – today they were not on the radio.
@ David McDowell We could get a crowdfunder going for Sennacot lol
galamcennalath @ 17:40,
Well, there’s one dead obvious way to know for sure one way or t’other, and that’s to have an officially-sanctioned and legally-binding referendum.
As Barnier was reminding us all so very recently in another context, quoting Machiavelli,
“Dove c’è una grande volontà, non possono esserci grandi difficoltà” (where there exists a great will, there can be no great difficulty).
But given the serious possibility of its losing, the will of the Madrid regime is very much in doubt. On the contrary. But the oft-asserted non-legality of a referendum is itself questionable, and constitutions can always be amended if necessary.
What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The EU should be exercising its diplomatic efforts, behind closed doors as it necessarily must be, to get Madrid to face up to reality and put its legitimacy in Catalonia to the test.
That’s the only modern European way forward.
Welsh Sion.
Yes, and note a Dr Sophie Williams is to talk about the Basque situation.
enjoy these times.
@Dr Jim says: 3 October, 2017 at 4:53 pm
“The BBC have to negotiate on the amount granted to them by the treasury for the BBCs use,”
That bit is correct, Dr Jim, but this next bit is wrong, “… if it was a licence they wouldn’t have to do that.”
Here’s why. In the first place the BBC are a private corporation and thus have no legal authority to either licence or tax anyone.
They broadcast programmes and they, rightly, expect to get paid for them. In effect they are selling entertainment by making and transmitting programmes. However, they get paid for the programmes they broadcast in the UK by the UK government who also pay the BBC for other services that I have mentioned a few already. They are, though, not being paid by the UK government for their entertainment programmes but for their public service broadcasts. That is news, weather, disaster warnings, road traffic warnings, party political broadcasts, health issues and so on.
All UK broadcasters must comply with the law to provide these public Broadcast services and that includes the independents like ITV and Virgin. Et Al.
Quite simple the BBC cannot levy taxation nor can they accept adverts as can the independents.
The reason that it is a licence, (and may indeed also be a tax), is because the correctly called TV Licence is the permission of the UK government to the licence holder to receive live video broadcasts from any source including on-line.
Think about it Dr Jim – if the BBC could licence their broadcasts then so could the independents, the cable companies, internet broadcasters and the satellite companies.
The TV licence is without doubt, (and it says so on the actual Licence), the UK governments permission for the holder to receive live video Broadcasts. The licensee has the UK governments permission to receive, on any device, any live TV broadcast.
What is more – paying for permission to do something is indeed a form of taxation. As indeed was the old infamous Window Tax that was government permission to have over a set number of windows on a property or a licence to prospect for oil in the North Sea or to then extract oil at a wellhead the prospector has already discovered or even for a company to extract oil from a well that someone else discovered and sold the licence to extract onto someone else.
As for the Scottish Block Grant – that is quite a different scam.
The reason it is called a block grant even if much of the revenue that it is taken from comes from Scots themselves is one I’ve explained in depth quite often here on Wings.
Take the example of the North Sea and North Atlantic oil & gas revenues extracted from what we all know to be Scottish Territorial Waters that are internationally recognised as being under independent Scottish Legal jurisdiction.
The revenues, according to the Westminster Government, is NOT extracted as Scottish revenues but as having been taken from, “UNITED KINGDOM “Extra-Regio-Territory”.
In other words the UK government has claimed it as United Kingdom revenue – it really is as simple a scam as that. It is UK revenue and thus them then bend the rules a great deal further by claiming that the portion of the revenue returned to Scotland is, “English taxpayers subsidy to the begging bowl of Scotland the begging nation”.
The UK is England when it suits Westminster and England when it suits them too.
Thousand of Scottish jobs lost due to Scottish Gov’s ban on fracking . They didn’t ban Oil & Gas extraction so where’s the Scottish job’s same with Fishing every nationality but fewer and fewer Scots workforce .
Jim Ratcliffe will be looking to the Scottish Gov for a hand out re his redundant gas storage towers .
Robert Kerr @ 6.13 pm:
Dr Sophie Williams s a well-respected academic:
https://www.bangor.ac.uk/senrgy/staff/s_williams.php.en
Lord Elystan-Morgan is a very interesting character, too: (Started off in Plaid Cymru.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elystan_Morgan,_Baron_Elystan-Morgan
PS I’m a card-carrying Member of SNP and PC.
Robert Peffers @ 18:18 (and several previously),
(I think we’ve got your point by now, RP.)
@Welsh Sion
Be interesting to see what he has to say. From the Spanish Constitution Section 1 part 3:
“3. The political form of the Spanish State is the Parliamentary Monarchy.“
Glenn Campbell, fucking BBC liar
I was a very small cog, ending up like many ordinary folk, because my group pushed me forward, not wanting to do it!
Friends of the Earth Scotland were very instrumental in getting the grassroots supported and organised. Some significant academics supported the movement. We were foot soldiers, just like many around the country.
There were some characters who worked very hard to get here, and I’m so happy they and all of us succeeded.
It’s a landmark.
STV News; I’ve just heard someone in Holyrood (Labour female?) state that the SNP haven’t gone far enough with the fracking ban. She said something along the lines of an indefinite fracking moratorium isn’t good enough. There should have been a full legal ban.
O/T
After hearing another union official attacking the Scottish Government on Radio Shiteland….. I was wondering if there is a Scottish union for general workers free from Labour control?
I would like to join a union but don’t want to join an anti SNP union.. Pro SNP would be even better..
If there isn’t one maybe the good and clever could look into possibility of starting one..
If this has been discussed before,sorry I missed it..
Made the mistake of switching on the car radio about 4.30 today to hear Nick “The Mekon” Robinson’s dulcet, sexy tones, advertising a new Pravdasound4 series called Political Thinking. The puff for it says, among other things, there will be no bias, no spin, no cynicism, no “bandwagons” (!) and lots of other noes which I gave up listening to in case I drove the old Bentley Continental off the road somewhere near Wishae.
Switched radio back on a little later to A Good Read, which had peerless right-wing smugster Toby “The Bearded Egg” Young and Mrs Gove, Sarah Vine, discussing lovely, lovely English books. I lasted about two minutes until Tobes started lauding the moral superiority of The Liberal West over evil, Totalitarian Russia.
Doesn’t seem to hear the Tory Totalitarian State aka BBC Radio parping out its pap 24 hours a day, for ever, until we give up and vote for Eternal Tory Night.
Sheesh! Incroyable!
*Lies down in darkened room*
O/T
Centre of Barcelona now
https://www.pscp.tv/lizcastro/1lPKqwbebaAJb
@Robert Louis says: 3 October, 2017 at 5:47 pm:
” … I think it is important to realise that the whole world, with precious few honourable exceptions, has sat back and said, ‘well that’s quite all right’.”
You are a hypocrite, Robert Louis.
Why were you not out there standing between the brutal police and the peaceful would be voters?
What was it you expected the World leaders to do?
Start war on Spain?
Perhaps you advocate that the self-appointed World’s Policeman, the USA, should have threatened Spain with a nuclear strike? Perhaps by flying a squadron or three of nuclear armed bombers over Spain’s main cities and their capital as they did at North Korea?
With the exception of fools a nutters the civilised World does not act in that manner and I have no doubt that the European, and World leaders will indeed take action – but will do so in a diplomatic manner. Nor will they be acting in haste but act they will – just not rushing in where angels fear to tread.
@Petra 6.38.
That would be Claudia Beamish.
Re-fracking announcement:
I think I’ve got this right! The GMB union, of which Richard Leonard MSP is a long term member, advocates:
1) fracking in Scotland, and
2) building new nuclear power stations in Scotland (http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/scotland-could-miss-out-on-nuclear-power ), and
3) Trident renewal and maintaining its presence at Faslane (http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/gmb-scotland-stand-up-for-defence-jobs )
That’s quite a combination of policy positions to hold nowadays in a Scottish context. If Leonard does win the Scottish Labour branch manager election, it will be interesting to see what additional influence on Labour policy in Scotland the GMB gains.
wee bud @ 6.41pm
I have mentioned this before don’t know if it was on here. I am a union member but it is clear that most Union types are British Nationalist Red Tories.
Scottish Trade Unions would be a step in the right direction.
I would be very supportive of that.
Fracking (along with Trident) was my number one reason for getting totally involved in the Independence movement and joining the SNP, so I’m absolutely over the moon about this. The very thought of our lovely country being irreversibly decimated is just too unbearable to think about.
For anyone visiting this site trying to make sense of the news, basically being reported as the SNP not giving a damn about the Scottish economy / jobs, please get online and do your homework. It’s a massive threat to our environment, health, and many lucrative industries, such as whisky and tourism. And of course there’s a great deal more that one could say about how utterly detrimental fracking is, but it’s too lengthy to get into on here.
Westminster Tories, politicians of all hues in London, don’t give a sh*t about Scotland, the workers or the economy, especially as they are seen to be stymying our oil industry / renewable energy sector (until it suits them). This is all about them lining their own pockets, once again, at the expense of the Scots / Scotland. For others such as the Scottish Tories it’s all about them sooking up their English bosses backsides.
MANY individuals who are involved in handing out fracking licenses sit on committees such as The Economic Affairs Committee at Westminster. Prior to Indyref1 this crew were calling for fracking to be made an URGENT National priority.
The crew AS OF 2014: Lord Hollick, Baroness Blackstone, Lord Carrington, Lord Griffiths, Lord Lawson, Lord McFall, Lord May, Lord Monks, Baroness Noakes, Lord Rowe – Beddoe, Lord Shipley, Lord Skidelsky and Lord Smith 12/06/2014.
At least six of them, have / had interests in the global energy industry. We can take it that MANY others on this Committee, in the House of Lords and in the Commons, do too.
Lord Lawson has links to the Central European Trust which represents BP and Texaco, both involved in shale gas.
Lord Griffiths is director of Goldman Sachs which recently launched their own shale fund.
Lord Hollick holds shares in Samson Resources which is invested in shale gas in the US.
Lord McFall holds investments in FTI consulting which advises the industry.
Lord Skidelsky is invested in Janus Capital,which holds stakes in oil and gas firms with shale operations.
Baroness Noakes holds shares with a number of firms with interests in shale gas (Shell, BP Group and BP) and British Gas owner Centrica. Centrica has invested in Cuadrilla exploratory operations in the North East of England and is a major beneficiary of government policy on fracking.
Cuadrilla’s other owner, US based Riverstone, invests in a range of energy assets around the world. One of its partners is former BP chief executive, Lord Browne who has had roles advising the Westminster government.
Energydesk at Greenpeace has also highlighted that the ownership of many of the firms prove impossible to verify as the full list of share owners are obscured by large ‘nominee’ share holdings through financial institutions.
@ Jason Smoothpiece That’s a upcoming dilemma for Scottish Trade Unionists but ridding ourselves of Westminster on Independence the same would apply to british trade unions .
STV covering the Spanish King speech at 8, and the big demonstration and strike today, but saying it’s two services against each other, firefighters and police, without mentioning that the Catalan police weren’t involved in the violence but, like the firefighters, tried to protect the voters.
Drip drip drip of mis-reporting.
Stu, i dont do twitter but watched the fotage posted on your feed from Catalonia of the woman getting a baton from a so called man across her cheek. I confess to being not only shocked at how someone can do this to a so called fellow citizen they wish to retain b8ut on a fundemental level of humanity. I cried a tear when the video shows her later on voting , a true insperation to democracy and a boot in the balls to the Govt of Spain and all the other facists out there lurking in the guise of democracies. PS it was a shiner and a half!
@ Nana says at 6:48 pm …. ”Centre of Barcelona now.”
http://www.pscp.tv/lizcastro/1lPKqwbebaAJb
Good one Nana just checked in as they were cheering their firefighters.
………………….
@ geeo says at 7:04 pm …. Petra … That would be Claudia Beamish.”
Thanks geeo. With her party’s track record it should be Claudia Beamer. Oh and, eh, I saw Kezia Dugdale skulking down behind her (looking hellish). I wonder what she’s got to say about fracking now?
……………………………..
@ stewartb says at 7:10 pm …. ”Re-fracking announcement:
I think I’ve got this right! The GMB union, of which Richard Leonard MSP is a long term member, advocates:
1) fracking in Scotland, and
2) building new nuclear power stations in Scotland (http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/scotland-could-miss-out-on-nuclear-power ), and
3) Trident renewal and maintaining its presence at Faslane (http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/gmb-scotland-stand-up-for-defence-jobs )
That’s quite a combination of policy positions to hold nowadays in a Scottish context. If Leonard does win the Scottish Labour branch manager election, it will be interesting to see what additional influence on Labour policy in Scotland the GMB gains.”
It would be interesting to find out BEFORE he becomes the leader, if he does, what HIS position is in relation to fracking, nuclear power stations and Trident renewal. I for one am sick and tired of WELL-PAID Unionist politicians in Scotland refusing to tell the Scots what they stand for other than SNP Baad.
wee bud @ 18:41,
I know what you mean, and quite right too, although I think it’s really the other way round: the Labour Party is (and always has been) a creature of the unions.
“Who pays the piper…” and all that.
I know, Labour politicians and union leaders don’t always get along, especially when the said politicians actually get their hands on power, but that’s still the fundamental truth of it.
Richard Leonard is the useful means by which the unions can take back explicit control again of the Northern Accounting Unit. He’s such a union apparatchik he probably has “GMB” stamped all the way through him like a stick of rock.
That’s essentially what “Corbyn” is all about. A shill for McCluskey and all the other puppetmasters, who are themselves all heavily BritNat.
Which is a pity, since the need for decent workplace protection remains as strong as ever. If all else fails, you can always do as I did and opt out of their political fund and spend whatever you like on your own preferences instead.
The STUC themselves have always seemed willing to give the SNP a fair hearing, but I have no idea how much influence, if any, that umbrella organisation has on its corporate members.
“You are a hypocrite, Robert Louis”
Are you totally absolutely completely INCAPABLE of holding a civilised debate, without the pathetic need to insult people?
“Perhaps by flying a squadron or three of nuclear armed bombers over Spain’s main cities and their capital as they did at North Korea?”
No the US didn’t, it didn’t fly over North Korea’s capital and cities, some nuclear capable B52s flew close to the border on the South Korean side. Which is stupid enough in itself without falsifying it.
Trade Unions in Scotland will require to become 100% Scottish only after a Yes vote.
Funded entirely in Scotland from Scottish memberships.
Now, considering a Yes vote brings about the exit door for EVERY unionist politician in Scotland (uk party politicians can no more remain in place in Scotland’s Parliament than the SNP can remain at WM post Yes) the same principle applies to uk wide trade unions.
Unions active in ruk cannot operate in Scotland, as they would be trying to influence workers in a foreign country, a complete no no.
Now, considering the unions close links to the current uk labour party, who would no longer exist in their current form in Scotland, any new or existing fully Scottish trade unions are going to need new political friends in an indy Scotland.
There are many reasons for the complete opposition to even holding a referendum.
All of them involve self preservation.
It is going to be interesting to find out where Mr Leonard stands on the issue of the fracking moratorium given that the party he wants to lead are trying to claim the credit for the SG’s decision while his union buddies in the GMB are against it.
@ yesindyref2 says at 7:33 pm …. ”STV covering the Spanish King speech at 8, and the big demonstration and strike today, but saying it’s two services against each other, firefighters and police, without mentioning that the Catalan police weren’t involved in the violence but, like the firefighters, tried to protect the voters. Drip drip drip of mis-reporting.”
I’ve been following this ‘fire-fighter versus police’ too. They’re as fly as a barrel of monkeys.
It’ll be interesting to see what King Felipe makes of it all. I reckon he knows that Spain is on a downward spiral and that the Spanish Royal family will be on the way out too, akin to the Windsors, in the very near future. Last year a well-known astrologer was asked to cast their charts. He ended up dead with a bullet in the neck prior to leaving for Spain. Basically Felipe’s heart isn’t in it. Abdication is on his mind.
STOP PRESS
King Felipe giving his address to the nation now, showing live on Euronews.
Just a finger-wagging for the Catalans from El Majestad. No reaching out, only adding fuel to the fire.
Worse than useless.
Robert Peffers, at 650pm.
Oh, dear. I write about the appalling events in Catalonia and how referenda should never be illegal in a democracy, and what do you do? Insult me.
You seem to make a habit of being a verbal bully on here (as many others have also noted), when people don’t agree with your somewhat limited and myopic worldview. Quite pathetic really.
@RJS
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/915293436324073472
Where’s ma pot! Or balcony come to that.
FGS I’ve tried to post this 4 times now over 2 hours. No links so what’s going on?
Fracking (along with Trident) was my number one reason for getting totally involved in the Independence movement and joining the SNP, so I’m absolutely over the moon about this. The very thought of our lovely country being irreversibly decimated is just too unbearable to think about.
For anyone visiting this site trying to make sense of the news, basically being reported as the SNP not giving a damn about the Scottish economy / jobs, please get online and do your homework. It’s a massive threat to our environment, health, and many lucrative industries, such as whisky and tourism. And of course there’s a great deal more that one could say about how utterly detrimental fracking is, but it’s too lengthy to get into on here.
Westminster Tories, politicians of all hues in London, don’t give a sh*t about Scotland, the workers or the economy, especially as they are seen to be stymying our oil industry / renewable energy sector (until it suits them). This is all about them lining their own pockets, once again, at the expense of the Scots / Scotland. For others such as the Scottish Tories it’s all about them sooking up their English bosses backsides.
MANY individuals who are involved in handing out fracking licenses sit on committees such as The Economic Affairs Committee at Westminster. Prior to Indyref1 this crew were calling for fracking to be made an URGENT National priority.
The crew AS OF 2014: Lord Hollick, Baroness Blackstone, Lord Carrington, Lord Griffiths, Lord Lawson, Lord McFall, Lord May, Lord Monks, Baroness Noakes, Lord Rowe – Beddoe, Lord Shipley, Lord Skidelsky and Lord Smith 12/06/2014.
At least six of them, have / had interests in the global energy industry. We can take it that MANY others on this Committee, in the House of Lords and in the Commons, do too.
Lord Lawson has links to the Central European Trust which represents BP and Texaco, both involved in shale gas.
Lord Griffiths is director of Goldman Sachs which recently launched their own shale fund.
Lord Hollick holds shares in Samson Resources which is invested in shale gas in the US.
Lord McFall holds investments in FTI consulting which advises the industry.
Lord Skidelsky is invested in Janus Capital,which holds stakes in oil and gas firms with shale operations.
Baroness Noakes holds shares with a number of firms with interests in shale gas (Shell, BP Group and BP) and British Gas owner Centrica. Centrica has invested in Cuadrilla exploratory operations in the North East of England and is a major beneficiary of government policy on fracking.
Cuadrilla’s other owner, US based Riverstone, invests in a range of energy assets around the world. One of its partners is former BP chief executive, Lord Browne who has had roles advising the Westminster government.
Energydesk at Greenpeace has also highlighted that the ownership of many of the firms prove impossible to verify as the full list of share owners are obscured by large ‘nominee’ share holdings through financial institutions.
George Imrie.
Folks,
If you notice anything weird with your FB over the next 72-96 hours, DON’T alter your settings. There is a major test of new international servers being conducted out of Canada, and there may well be unforeseen consequences. This is being done to try and improve connectivity between the US/Canada and Europe. Expect dropouts, messages not posting, likes not registering etc etc. Anything/everything is possible–it depends purely on how far the programmers decide to take this test….
I’ll post as/when I get the all clear, but, realistically, expect disruption anytime between now and (roughly) Sunday/Monday.
Hardly a surprise that the Spanish King would be miffed at a Republican Catalan 🙂
Hardly an honest broker
I see that David Starkey has a programme on the Reformation tonight. I am tempted because I am sure he will in his waspish element. He is a member National Secular Society so he should be ecumenical in his comments.
Spanish King to the Catalans: “And never forget, we have the right to batter you over the head with big clubs. How the hell do you think I got to be King in the first place?!”
Catalonia and the King. Worth a read of BBC Katya Adler’s tweets.
https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler
Thanks for the informative reply’s folks.. You see what the trade unions organised in Catalonia today and what ours want to tie us to… Oh well,onwards and upwards..
https://www.facebook.com/RepublicaCatal3/posts/1037607539675183
O/T Could what happened on Sunday in Catalonia happen here in Scotland?
Well I for one very much doubt it, sure they could send 6000 English policemen up here to “keep the peace”. If Theresa May sticks to “now is not the time” and the Scottish Government call a referendum anyway then we have a constitutional crisis for sure.
That doesn’t worry me and in fact is to be expected. Nobody thought that winning our Independence would be easy but if there is anything to be learned from Catalonia on Sunday it is that doing it peacefully is the way to go.
Rock (20th September 2014 “Keep ‘em peeled”):
“We have had a day to reflect but the fight for independence continues. We are NOT going to wait for a generation.
A very public and massive boycott of the BBC should now be the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. They destroyed our hope for a fair society, we must destroy them in Scotland starting NOW.
And for heaven’s sake, DON’T buy a newspaper in Scotland, not even the Sunday Herald because by buying it we sustain its poisonous sister paper published 6 times more per week.”
To clarify for the Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex?)girlfriend, this post was made the day after the lost referendum, so don’t pick a fight with me.
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/915293436324073472
Just watched King Felipe of Spain give his address where he failed to mention any violence. Did anyone else notice the image in the oil painting behind him? It appeared to be a black baton.
Is this someones idea of a sick joke or is it a not so veiled threat to the people of Catalonia?
The King’s Speech…
… headline news on the BBC website!
But the referendum was not even mentioned on BBC Reporting Scotland on Monday morning…
Catalonia MUST declare independence right now and apply to join the UN. Before the Spanish Army invades.
yesindyref2,
““You are a hypocrite, Robert Louis”
Are you totally absolutely completely INCAPABLE of holding a civilised debate, without the pathetic need to insult people?”
Robert Louis,
“Oh, dear. I write about the appalling events in Catalonia and how referenda should never be illegal in a democracy, and what do you do? Insult me.
You seem to make a habit of being a verbal bully on here (as many others have also noted), when people don’t agree with your somewhat limited and myopic worldview. Quite pathetic really.”
Rock (22nd May – “The pertinent questions”):
“Robert Peffers is an aggressive verbal bully.
When his shite is challenged and he is left speechless, he pretends he hasn’t noticed (“The unholy union”).
His sycophants go after you like blood hounds if you dare challenge him, but I am one of the few posters who can take all of them on.
Don’t be afraid of them. Post your opinions. This site doesn’t belong to them.”
I was at a funeral yesterday morning here in DDD. I spoke briefly to a close relative of the deceased, a fairly young local guy whom I know used to work for the BBC. He worked initially on the Chris Evans radio as a researcher.
Anyway, he then transferred up to BBC Scotland, children’s TV I think. So I asked when he was there. He left the end of 2012. Ah, says I, you must have seen the build up to the Indy ref? Well, his face dropped and he said that he had always been a champion of the impartiality of the BBC…until then. He implied that he had seen another side to the BBC and was embarrassed by their reporting of the referendum.
It wasn’t an appropriate time to probe for more info, unfortunately, but it was nice to be able to say to my other half there I told you so!
@Jason Smoothpiece says: 3 October, 2017 at 7:15 pm:
“Scottish Trade Unions would be a step in the right direction.
I would be very supportive of that”.
Aye! Jason, but you won’t be alone in that queue. There are geed reasons why the Trade Unions are now a very much weaker influence in Scotland and you have identified the main reason why.
yesindyref2 (3rd October 21.21 – “Have I got evasion for you”):
Get lost.
Robert Peffers (10th September – “The paper it’s written on”):
“They are, after all both clowns and neither has the capacity to offer a decent logical argument.”
Rock:
“You are an aggressive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life.
If you are as clever as you think, why don’t you have your own site to flog your “knowledge”?
Instead of contaminating every article on someone else’s website with your verbal diarrhoea.
Why haven’t you ever written a book on the history of the union?”
O/T to Catalunya, If you google “Spain ‘losing control’ of Catalonia, analysts warn”, it comes up with an article which has an interesting titbit at the end
The wiki entry for the Guardia Civil mentions that the force who evenly split on both sides of the Civil war.
There is no doubt that they as well as the Policía Nacional have come out the worst in the recent events. There is also no doubt that members of these two forces when well and above the orders they were asked to carry out and showed brutality that shouldn’t be seen in a modern democracy. However, I wonder if there were elements in these two forces who, caught between having to follow orders and follow their conscience, didn’t carry out their orders are reverently as others which resulted in the number of polling station shutdowns being a lot less than it could have been?
B*g*r I forgot it wasn’t a 24 hour clock 🙁
Has anyone noticed that Craig Murray has come over to the real nationalist side?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/10/obliged-reconsider-support-european-union/
I’d like to think that we could organise and put up candidates in order to address the democratic deficit.
Re the Spanish Unions – don’t mess with them. Period. How I wish our own unions were more than the lap dogs they are.
I was working in Cadiz a few years back when they had a little strike over proposals to cut their members rates to €25 a day. We were given the day off on pay for our own safety whilst the striking shipyard workers were having a bonfire of tyres in the middle of the only bridge in or out to Cadiz !
Alex Clarke @ 8.56
I agree Alex.
I can’t see Westminster “just” sending up a lot of “alleged” police day’s before a vote,while no an impossible response from the British government that’s no my understanding of how they operate.
I am expecting that they will…
As soon as there is a date a announced….
Provoke a civil disturbances,if we let them,well before the actual vote!!!and that’s the way they will try to put Scotland on lock down.
I don’t think they will go as far as to create an exact replica of N.Ireland because that may restrict access to our resources…. But it will be a long those lines!
It’s a win win for them….they either keep us in the Union or wreck as best they can our first few years of Indy.
You are right though we need to do it the Catalan way.
Keep a lid on our own hot head’s.
The British state know violence, they are very good at it.
Much better than us,but if we don’t engage they have no …how should I say…plan B.
We just need to wrong foot them and make it clear that this dammed Union has had enough Scottish blood …not one drop more if we have anything to say about it!
We need “hunners” of plan Bs, again, Catalan is leading the way….peacefully cut the revenue stream to the government.
But what ever we do listen to “teacher” and Peace Always eh
Kenny@9:14pm
What becomes obvious is that whenever anything happens that suggests Spain is getting the upper hand or likely to crush the Catalans, all other news else is dropped immediately and the Catalan story shoots to the top story of the BBC news agenda.
When the opposite is true, when anything happens that suggests the Catalans might be getting the upper hand or taking a step closer to their goal, the story is buried or ignored altogether.
This is very irritating until you realise it betrays the extreme level of anxiety the BBC and their unionist paymasters are experiencing because of these uppity Catalans.
However the cat is already out of the bag. Anything the Spaniards do now makes them look like the authoritarian thugs they really are. What they did on Sunday was a PR disaster that would make Gerald Ratner wince.
Alex Clark,
“O/T Could what happened on Sunday in Catalonia happen here in Scotland?
Well I for one very much doubt it, sure they could send 6000 English policemen up here to “keep the peace”. If Theresa May sticks to “now is not the time” and the Scottish Government call a referendum anyway then we have a constitutional crisis for sure.”
Rock (9th September – “Mascot Of The Universe”):
“The UK security services would be doing exactly the same thing here when Saint Theresa refuses permission for a referendum before Brexit is completed.
But they won’t need to because I can say with 99% confidence that Nicola will not dare defy Saint Theresa.”
@ronnie anderson says: 3 October, 2017 at 7:28 pm:
“That’s a upcoming dilemma for Scottish Trade Unionists but ridding ourselves of Westminster on Independence the same would apply to british trade unions.”
I believe it would be a natural parting of the ways, Ronnie.
The Trade Unions and the Co-op movement gave birth to the labour Party and the Labour Party was the Westminster wing of the movement.
Then, around the late 1950s/early 60s the Labour party and the Unions began to distance themselves from the Co-op movement while the Co-op movement leadership seemed to see itself as somehow above the membership. I knew several Co-op managers who saw themselves as an elite and looked down upon the members.
Then the entire joint, Co-op/Trade Union/Labour Party thing started to drift apart and before we knew what was really going on we had the rise of what became NuLabour and their move towards the right.
Re: Catalan referendum (and a topical bit on fracking honest)
The legality of the law passed to hold a legally binding referendum was the prime consideration.
There was, apparently, nothing unconstitutional or illegal about voters participating in such a referendum.
Hence, arrests were made on politicians on various charges (including embezzlement) but not of voters.
Police action was against citizens who were not engaging in an illegal activity or transgressing any law, constitutional or otherwise.
A prior referendum (advisory) was allowed to proceed on the basis it was done by voluntary organisations and not driven by Catalan Parliament.
To reiterate, the legality of the referendum was in question (Suspended by the Constitutional Court) participating in it was not.
A legal opinion:
https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/zm3y5x/spain-may-arrest-catalans-for-voting-for-their-independence.
A precis of the situation leading to the referendum:
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2014/11/10/javier-garcia-oliva-catalonia-in-spain-the-future-ahead/amp/
Finally, an interesting observation on the practices of Spain’s reformed Constitutional Court. With a topical reference to overturning Catalonia’s ban on fracking (amongst other things) It appears to mirror the UK gov’s claim to sovereignty over devolved parliaments.
Will Westminster be emboldened to emulate it?
https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/opinion/spains-constitutional-court-power-beyond-legal-practice/
Much more out there I omit – you all know how to research.
Although, going by some posts here, I’m inclined to paraphrase an old saying:
“You have a tool to access all the worlds knowledge at your fingertips, but use it to get into arguments with complete strangers instead”
@Rock
I’m glad the likes of you post such shite as that below, it shows you up for what you are. An absolute bam, take me on anytime LOL.
His sycophants go after you like blood hounds if you dare challenge him, but I am one of the few posters who can take all of them on.
Nick Robinson should be pitied not pilloried. He is a product of the machinery that churns out children destined to lord it over the plebs of Scottish society. But one day, hopefully soon the worm will turn.
https://caltonjock.com/2017/10/03/post-brexit-food-standards-to-be-compiled-introduced-and-monitored-through-westminster-history-indicates-the-folly-of-the-policy-but-it-is-not-for-scotland-to-decide/
@Morgatron says: 3 October, 2017 at 7:41 pm:
“Stu, i dont do twitter but watched the fotage posted on your feed from Catalonia of the woman getting a baton from a so called man across her cheek.”
I can’t speak for anyone else but that photo of the brave lady at the start of Stu’s article will stay in my memory for the rest of my life.
It will be in very good company along with the photo of wee girl with the Saltire standing alongside the two big Britnats with their Butcher’s Aprons and the photo of the wee naked girl running in terror from the USA Napalm attack.
I can never forget the inhumanity that could cause such pain and anguish to fellow humans and the fortitude shown by those so abused.
Going back to the article, this isn’t really the culture specific to the BBC but to the society that we live in now but Nick Robinson is a product of this where in the instance of his profession, he the individual is more important than the news he reports. In essence, Nick Robinson the brand is more important than what he is reporting and because he gives a view on something we are supposed to accept it because of the trust we have in Nick Robinson, the brand.
Of course there are enough of the middle class Guardian luvvies to lap up the sh1te he spews to make Nick Robinson, the brand profitable for Nick Robinson but apart from them, do the majority of normal decent folk actually care what he says?
BBC fracking article HYS there are lots of English posters saying what a good decision, and one even says can Scotland run England please LOL
This is because the article though on Scotland Politics page was also on UK main page…
The Proud Scot Butts are fuming, though to their credit even some of them are saying it was a good decision (but still SNP bad)
“… condemning what he called the illegal actions of Catlonia’s leaders – and – not once mentioning the violence used against voters at the weekend”
BBC report on King Filipe’s speech.
What happened – is the BBC Fake News editor on holiday?
Interesting talk by economist Bill Mitchell at Labour Party conference fringe event in Brighton.
Bill and Richard Murphy talk from a fairly similar macroeconomic viewpoint.
So when tuba man and any other labourites talk of turbo-charged austerity for an independent Scotland with its own currency just forward this video from their own conference.
Bill puts a lot of economic myths to bed. Labour can’t have it both ways wrt Scotland.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=37027
Wonder if Nick Robinsons employer Her Britannic Majesties Broadcasting (of BritNat) Propaganda Corporation or it’s Tartan Shortbreid Editions will report this anytime soon???
“Scotch Beef and Lamb are not to be recognised in the Japanese and Canadian trade deals.”
From the Herald:
http://archive.is/QM7NH
“Some of Scotland and Britain’s most famous foods and brands are at risk by a new EU free trade agreement which is expected to be ratified on Wednesday.”
“The final agreement between the European Union and Canada JUST BACKED BY THE UK GOVERNMENT fails to protect any British produce – because it is understood UK ministers have failed to add any to the free trade deal.”
The Farmers and Fishermen who voted Tory and now will reap what was sown.
Re Catalonia:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014
@yesindyref2 says: 3 October, 2017 at 7:54 pm:
““You are a hypocrite, Robert Louis”
Are you totally absolutely completely INCAPABLE of holding a civilised debate, without the pathetic need to insult people?”
No, yesindyref2, I just tell it like it is.
Robert Louis has been advocating idiotic claptrap for some time now and when someone does that they can take what they get for what they are advocating is an insult to those who have spent their entire life in the cause of Scottish independence.
Says a lot about you that you see it as an insult telling someone who, while sitting on their own arse doing nothing, is urging others to stick their necks out and to act in a manner that could only serve to aggravate an already dire situation.
The World’s powers do not act as Robert Louis wants them to act for doing so leads to drastic actions. Witness the events being acted out due to the North Korean situation. Sabres are being well rattled and things could get out of hand in an instant.
Think back to the Situation at The Bay of Pigs:-
All that followed the abortive Bay of Pig invasion. When a CIA trained force attempted to invade Cuba and failed. It could have ended the World.
Robert Peffers your pulling out the old establishment propaganda regarding the Cuban Crisis. It’s been in the public domain for years that due to U2 spy flights that Kennedy knew the Russians didn’t have a Nucleur Arsenal worth its name. That’s why Kennedy played the game and khrushchev knew that Kennedy know that.
@Robert J. Sutherland says: 3 October, 2017 at 8:05 pm:
“Just a finger-wagging for the Catalans from El Majestad. No reaching out, only adding fuel to the fire.
Worse than useless.”
Which shows the wisdom of the wiser World leaders who will be keeping their own council and letting Spain get itself into ever more deep trouble by their continued ill advised actions.
It is usually described as giving them enough rope and waiting until they hang themselves. Sometimes also described as not interfering with your enemy when they are making mistakes.
Not unlike what the SG is doing just now in regards to the Westminster Tories who are getting deeper in confusion by the minute.
Note that the MEPs have voted today on urging The EU not to open the next phase of Brexit negotiations unless there is a, “Major Breakthrough”.
That next phase is the discussion on trade deals. The voting was 557 for a delay: 92 against a delay: and 29 abstentions.
Far as Theresa goes the whole thing is about trade deals but it is not the main concern of the EU parliament. Stalemate is about to happen.
@Robert Peffers: “No, yesindyref2, I just tell it like it is.”
No Robert, your response to Robert Louis had nothing to do with his posting, where he said the whole world with honourable exceptions (including Nicola Sturgeon and Malcolm Chisholm today) sat back and did nothing – said nothing – about the violence meted out on people who were to trying to vote.
All much of it did was say they support Spain as an ally.
Robert Louis said nothing about nuking Spain, you did, he said nothing about invading Spain or attacking it, you did, not him. You seem to be arguing against some concoction you made of what he said, not the perfectly valid posting he made.
I do wonder if the announcement on fracking was put out in between the various bad news issues around.
The USA is often quoted as an example of where it goes wrong and rightly too. It also has a different geography. For example the use of aquivers for water supply where contamination is certainly possible.
How many greens switched on their gas central heating tonight happy that it has been transported several thousand miles as opposed to us developing our industry.
I mentioned on here last year a comment by a nimby southerner campaigner on BBC scotchland saying that if Grangemouth shut down it wouldn’t bother her.
So the snp has got the green vote for now but no one has explained where we are getting our gas supplies from in the next 10 years. England? USA.?
We can’t all have electric cars? Incidentally I travel to work by train my green neighbour drives a lovely big 4 by 4 on their kiddies run to school which is a mere 5 min walk away.
Strange world
As with
I’ve been reading/listening to debates about the Catalan Ref, I am pis*ed off with the EU not getting involved , but realise legally they cannot get involved.
What I can’t get my head around is, this was not an act of terrorism/violence by the Catalan people, they were simply voting. For the EU to basically turn a blind eye to EU citizens being criminally abused by an “EU member” government, just shows you how weak the EU really is.
I have always referred to myself as a “Euro-Scot”, I am sad to say unless Madrid is held to account by Brussels, I will wash my hands of the EU.
If the Spanish government can get away with this, what will happen at Indy Ref2?(Colonel Blimp running around shouting “don’t panic” whilst loading the gun turrets.)
01/10/2017
El dia de la democracia va morir
@Gary45%
Alyn Smith and others have set a debate in the EU Parliament tomorrow at 3 pm.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=AGENDA&reference=20171004&secondRef=SIT&language=EN
“Constitution, rule of law and fundamental rights in Spain in the light of the events in Catalonia
Commission statement
[2017/2888(RSP)]
One round of political group speakers”
We’ll have to see what comes of that.
Burp! Nick Robinssson, you’ve been found out ssson.
Party on beautiful iCatalonia!
Take tomorrow off too.
Synchronize WW.
Teresa’s ah tall wumin but ah foot short in trouser length lol.
Its a sad day when contributors btl on this site that (allegedly) all support the same cause – viz. Scotland’s independence – cannot debate and disagree without personal insult. Do we not have enough opponents insulting us?
Let’s have robust debate – after all we decidedly are not a ‘cult’ (and agreement only is very ‘boring’) – but let’s also show some respect to each other in debate. Is that too much for us to aspire to as we work for a better, an independent country?
Given what’s happening in Catalonia, some of these personal spats btl on WoS do the Yes movement, as represented by Wingers, no credit in my humble opinion. Perspective please.
“Catalonia will declare independence from Spain in a matter of days, the leader of the autonomous region has told the BBC.”
No doubt the Spanish government are preparing to provide further proof that they can dish it out but can’t take it. Cowards.
Ah! That’s what it is. There’s an “80” against that EU Parliament debate, and since the session goes from 15.00 to 22.00, that’s presumably minutes allowed. 1 hour 20 minutes, and from the detail (little) it could be a 1st reading.
Great news about the decision of Scot Govt to ban fracking.
Greenpeace is pleased;
https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/victory-scotland-banning-fracking/
And the population of Scotland should also be pleased. The evidence documenting the adverse environmental and health impacts is building up steadily.
‘The studies in the compendium cover a wide range of impacts including the fracking process’ contribution to accelerating climate change, worsening air pollution, causing earthquakes, contaminating water sources and endangering public health. Also reviewed were studies related to the social effects of increased gas drilling on communities, the impact of inflated reserve estimates on the economy and the risks to investors. The authors used research covering all oil and gas activity, from production to distribution, transport and waste disposal.
Scientific studies establishing a connection between oil and gas drilling and poorer health were scant until the last few years, and it is difficult to prove that fracking or gas drilling releases contaminants that harm people’s health. But over time, in disparate studies, researchers were able to identify the chemical compounds in fracking fluids and emissions, show that residents were exposed to those chemicals and then establish that this led to higher rates of premature births, low birth weights and other negative health effects’
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/16102015/fracking-studies-overwhelmingly-indicate-threats-public-health-air-water-pollution
I am on holiday at present in Catalonia, mainly in coastal towns on the Costa Brava, away from the main centres of activity re the referendum. While I have not been close to areas of conflict, I have seen many of the clips on social media of the violence during the October 1st referendum and have been absolutely disgusted by them. What is different here, is that I do not have to rake around on social media to get some semblance of the truth – all these clips are readily available on both local and national TVs stations and are played constantly.
Today, October 3rd is the day of the national strike in protest against Sunday’s police brutality. I am in Platja De Aro, a coastal resort on the Costa Bravo. The beach is very quiet and so are the streets. There are no buses. The major supermarkets and businesses have closed. Most of the local shops which might have been expected to profit from the situation have also closed, some with short handwritten notes saying “Tancata per Dignite” – “Shut in dignity” – and other such messages.
There have been no gatherings or demonstrations here but I have been watching Channel 3 all evening. All normal programmes have been suspended because broadcasting technicians and others are also on strike, but there is a running programme of news covering all the major demonstrations across Catalonia in Barcelona, Girona, Reus, Sabadell, and many more towns in Catalonia. These are absolutely huge, extremely well organised and coordinated, peaceful and dignified. Convoys of tractors and lorries have brought motorway and major routes to a standstill.
Imagine massive simultaneous Indy marches in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, Dumfriess, Inverness, Ayr, Oban etc and the M8 and M9 blocked – and that gives you an idea of the scale of protest. Puts our own organisational skills to shame.
However, the really significant thing is that I can see all of this in my hotel room. Twenty thousand people can march through Glasgow on an independence march and it is ignored by our own media. Channel 3 has had a reprise all night of all the different demos across Catalonia, interspersed with discussion programmes and international comment. They even featured Nigel Farage, one of the few who has been volatile in his condemnation of the violence of the Guardia Civil ( even though he turned it into an anti Europe rant ).
Coverage seemed pretty even handed to me – despite my poor Spanish and non existent Catalan. They showed pro- unity demos from Madrid and Spanish ministerial comment. You needed few linguistic skills to seperate out the unity and Catalan rallies, even if you couldn’t see the flags – the atmosphere was completely different. Catalan protests were colourful, sometimes solemn, often cheerful, ordinary people glad to be there. The tone of the unity demos was belligerent, aggressive and frankly ugly for the most part.
Apart from making very clear the serious broadcasting deficit we have n Scotland, the past few days have demonstrated to me the absolute resilience of the people of all ages in this part of the world. They have faced brutal aggression without resorting to violence in return- I for one would find this extremely difficult – and in spite of this, they have come together in organised dignified fashion to protest peacefully but firmly at the treatment they have received.
It is important to remember that today’s protests and gatherings have not bee about independence per se, but about brutal state repression of people’s right to self determination.
Gary 45% @ 10.11
I mibbi know how ye feel Gary!
But for all that I want the EU to do “something” I am no quite sure what?
And by that I mean what power’s would I want the EU to have in this instance.
On the one hand I can see that if the EU has the power to dictate to big business something like toilet break’s,then surely it should be able to insist on the safety of it’s citizens.
But on the other hand I see the EU’s power as being a trading power and mindful of Washington I am not all that sure that I would want that to change.
Ye see Gary there’s no any point in allowing the EU to hold the legal power to make an intervention.
Without agreement that it should have the ability to enforce it’s will!
And that’s where ye loose me!
I could conceivably get on board with a “Police Standard” directive.
As in no more stormtrooper policing from member states.
We as a people are allowing the police to dress and train like we saw on Sunday.
Too little too late for Catilonia though and still no the kind of power that a Trading Standards Group should have.
Otherwise we run the risk of proving Farage a wee bit right.
Horrible as it sounds mibbi the policing issue is no for the EU to sort because ultimately we don’t want them to have that kind of power!
That’s no to say that Nation’s should not be speaking out as individual bodies though!
@Robert Louis says: 3 October, 2017 at 8:10 pm:
“Oh, dear. I write about the , and what do you do? Insult me.”
No you weren’t, Robert Louis. You were doing exactly the same thing you have been harping on about for weeks now – accusing the SNP and SG of doing nothing and virtually demanding they do something while you are sitting on your own arse doing nothing except demanding others do something.
“You seem to make a habit of being a verbal bully on here (as many others have also noted),”
Nah! Many Others haven’t noted it. Just you, Rock, (another one who sits on his arse doing nothing except narking at others, and in particular Nicola Sturgeon, the SG and the SNP to do something), and perhaps one other person that I gave up bothering with some time ago.
I note you even quote Rock’s pet, “verbal bully”, claim that he uses as he attempts to bully me as you do now. If you do not want to have strong arguments on an open forum then don’t make strong arguments that will be strongly challenged.
I don’t complain about you or the other couple of anti-SNP commenters on wings, who claim I’m bullying them by opposing their views.
Perhaps you imagine you are above criticism but if you want to hit back at me I won’t be accusing you of attempting to bully me, even if you are.
It is an open forum and I sincerely hope it never descends into a cosy wee club of those who just want to agree with each other.
In any case I made no comment, or condemnation, of your comments about, “the appalling events in Catalonia and how referenda should never be illegal in a democracy”, that you now attempt to infer I am somehow in disagreement with. Now why would you attempt to infer that I did?
Nor is there anything in your further comment that, “when people don’t agree with your somewhat limited and myopic worldview.”
The truth being that I’m not the one with the, “somewhat limited and myopic worldview,” as I’m the one pointing out that the World’s leaders in the main DO NOT act in haste and cause World conflicts. As you seem to desire them to do.
They wait, use diplomacy and avoid rash and hurried actions. I quote elsewhere on this thread the case of the abortive, “Bay Of Pigs”, (CIA inspired invasion of Cuba), and the closest this old World has ever come to all out nuclear warfare since the atomic bomb was invented and some of them dropped upon Japanese cities.
Yet we presently have a couple of the most mentally unstable World leaders rattling nuclear sabres at each other over North Korea.
As if the, more or less conventional, Korean War was not bad enough and, believe me I do know how bad that NON-Nuclear war actually was – (personally).
I’m of an age when conscription was in force and apprentices could only be differed – not exempted – from service.
Brief postscript. Channel 3 broadcast the unprecedented address of King Philip at 21.00 tonight. Many had been hoping for some moderating fluency – but there was none. One of the commentators remarked that he had abandoned any semblance of his role as moderator and had in fact ” burnt his boats” in siding with the Governmentt and refusing to address police brutality. Another added that “Democracy and Monarchism is a contradiction in terms.”
liz Gray @ 11.40pm
I agree with you.
I think this is really more for the Council of Europe and the European Court of Human Rights in the first instance.
@Robert Peffers
“You were doing exactly the same thing you have been harping on about for weeks now – accusing the SNP and SG of doing nothing and virtually demanding they do something ”
No he didn’t, he didn’t even mention the SNP or SG. not even once.
Read his posting again – or did you even read it at all?
Hamish100 @ 11:07 pm
You state: “So the snp has got the green vote for now but no one has explained where we are getting our gas supplies from in the next 10 years. England? USA.?”
May I suggest to you that the most cursory examination of the gas reserves still available from both the North Sea and the East Atlantic Margin, in Scottish waters, are more than enough to meet Scotland’s needs over the next ten years – and for much longer. Gas from fracked shales onshore is both of highly uncertain volumes and environmentally and economically problematic – as the research evidence obtained by the SG and others shows.
To address your (apparent) disagreement with SG policy regarding source of future gas supplies, please review this example – one of several I could point you to:
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-35516144
“Production has begun at a new gas plant that will bring the vast reserves west of Shetland to the mainland. The Shetland Gas Plant is said by operator Total to be capable of supplying energy to two million homes.
A flare was lit at the moment gas started flowing to the plant, which will serve the Laggan and Tormore fields. The two gas fields lie about 125km (77 miles) to the north west of the Shetland Islands.
The plant is said to have been the biggest construction project in the UK since the London Olympics.”
Is this enough to end your implied criticism of SG policy on fracking based on concerns about where Scotland’s gas supplies over the next 10 years will come from?
At Stewart B
At eleven twenty three
Eh hiv to say
Eh concur wi thee
Jomry @ 23:50,
Yes, I realised as soon as I heard his first sentence or two that he had totally blown it.
Uncompromisingly tone-deaf, like a throwback to a long-past monarchical age, as if he were attempting to reincarnate his namesake Philip II. No pretence of being the custodian of all his claimed people’s well-being. No attempt whatever to act as a conciliator between factions, which he could easily have done without conceding anything on Spanish sovereignity.
No doubt his little “back in the box, peons” lecture played well in Madrid, but it very likely polarised the situation even more.
I mean, what do they want to happen, if democracy isn’t to be permitted? Another descent into dirty war as with the Basques? (Whose own current peaceful status is now equally under threat.)
Hamish 100 @ 11.07
Not to pile in Hamish but even if Stewartb @ 12.02 was wrong which he is demonstrably not.
And even if we didn’t have the ability to make Scotland powered by renewables!
You seem to be forgetting that this ban protects our Water.
This is going to be a very valuable commodity in the foreseeable future.
Infact I am half expecting Highland Spring to be sponsoring the SNP conference in gratitude (cause I am just that optimistic…foul mouthed mibbi ….but a cheery soul nevertheless)
Not forgetting that tourism here is all about the landscape!
Scotland has more than enough power ( in that area at least) absolutely nae need tae mess up the land or the water tae keep the lights on…..em..a best of both worlds kinda thing
This fracking malarkey was only ever about exploiting the land for sheer profit,as you probably know.
But there’s a wee bit of me that wonder’s if wrecking the central belt making the properties in saleable and uninsurable was the icing on the cake for the stakeholders?
In a “no great mischief” sorta way!
@ RJS
Feguck the Kegings
and the quegeens tae
Vested interests
ony way.
Catalunya, seize the day. 😉
Catalunya, seize the day, be free, be AYE! 🙂
One is in ra beautiful City of Glasgow.
Who’s coming oot tae play?
I agree WW.
@ Cactus
Here at last 😉
The gemme is afoot 😉
We are the past
and be in nae doobt
It’s time to tak these monarchs oot
WTF is a Sherzo?
Nice bunnet btw.
RAaaaar!
Massively O/T seen this on Facebook
Jodie Chalk is, the Scot everyone would love to beat, especially down South!
While the talented, 23 year old from Glenrothes, is highly, capable of distinguishing herself as the Scottish & British champion in her class, in this male dominated sport, she also identifies herself on the circuit by her eye-catching, distinct colours of Scotlands national flag.
As well as her Saltire designed helmet, dad Garfield painted the wheels on her cb500s, half blue and half white, making her even more recognisable on the track!
If anybody can help out this yes supporting family and extremely talented Racer you can find Jodie on Facebook
As of last Sunday, (with her permission), obviously ? ?her bike has been donned with the utmost extension of her national pride, making even more prominent, Jodie and Garfield’s support of an Independent Scotland…… #Yesbikers sticker! ?
Jodie is an exemplar of strength and true grit, her slight stature would have most think, this wee lassie is a pushover but nothing could be further from the truth! After all, she is a Scot….. a force to be reckoned with!
In the Thundersport gb 500 championships last year, out of 88 guys, Jodie from Glenrothes (the ONLY Scottish representative) finished in an impressive 3rd spot!
She won the British 500 cc honda Thundersport Grand prix at Donington…..
She not only managed to win the Knockhill and Melville Open and Club championships, she also took the Lap record at both East Fortune and Knockhill.
Previous lap record holder was held by James Toseland , {two times world super bike champion }
She has scored more points in any motorcycle championship, than any other woman in the UK.
She also received the Prestigeous Straiton trophy, which recognises achievements of racers such as Steve Hislop and Niall mckenzie, Jodie’s name sits among them!
Her dad Garfield Chalk, is her manager/trainer and most of all her inspiration. But, Garfield can only do so much to keep Jodie in the sport. Apart from a few sponsors keeping her dream alive, for now, Garfield has funded most of the costs from his own pocket.
Jodie did race in the superstocks 600 class but all the overheads associated with the bigger bikes, were uneconomically viable, with tyre bills of up to £1100 per race weekend. So the team had to make a decision whether to pull out of racing altogether or come up with an alternative, it was Jodie’s choice to move down a class to the Honda cb500s, which provided a platform to show off the natural ability, oozing from this precocious, exceptional wee Scot!
In the hope of attracting more investment Jodie has set up a fan club #club87. She is aiming for 87 people who would be willing to pay £87 per year towards the £20,000+ running costs!
If anyone is interested in helping Jodie and Garfield in anyway, do get in touch. A #yesbiker fundraiser night, of some sort perhaps!?
.
Eh dinnae mean beh
sword or gun
but beh the ballot box
whaur democracies won
This iz whaur we load wir guns
A scherzo actually.
I do one everyday.
Love Glasgow X.
@Lenny Hartley says: 3 October, 2017 at 10:49 pm:
“It’s been in the public domain for years that due to U2 spy flights that Kennedy knew the Russians didn’t have a Nucleur Arsenal worth its name.”
Bloody hilarious, Lenny, there’s a great many well trodden myths floating around that public domain and there always has been. Has not the Rev Stu made a new career out of debunking myths in the public domain.
As to the one that the Soviet Union didn’t have a nuclear deterrent worth a docken I remember well the wisdom, (cough!), of the time. It went something like, “My nuclear stockpile is bigger than your nuclear stockpile – so there”.
Trouble with that wisdom is that is wasn’t wise. What is the point of having a far bigger stockpile of nuclear bombs if it only needs a few to cause enough climate change as to end the World? Ask yourself this question – Why was Nuclear Bomb Testing first of all made to be carried out underground? Secondly why was it then banned entirely?
Thirdly – why are the World’s nuclear powers so worried that some new countries are doing nuclear testing?
Do you remember, if you are old enough, a top twenty tune called, “Blue Moon”?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BziGPUGjhIE
The thing was there actually was a Blue Moon and it was the result of the too many Nuclear Bomb tests going on throughout the World at that particular time.
You see they then all did their nuclear bomb tests in desert areas. The UK in Australia, The USA in the Nevada Desert among other places and so on.
This resulted in the, ever bigger, Mushroom Clouds carrying sand and radioactive dust right up into the upper stratosphere and upper atmosphere where it was carried right around the World. It then filtered out the light of the Moon to leave only the blue light in the spectrum. BTW: The Sun was also a rather peculiar shade of red at that time too.
Not only that but those nuclear tests gave the World the name, “Bikini”, for a skimpy female swim ware. This was after they had tested a bomb on Bikini Island and blew the entire tropical jungle on the island clean off the island leaving Bikini island totally bare.
What wasn’t said back then was that they had come very close indeed to ending the World – remember that all that upper stratosphere dust was radioactive and had encompassed the entire World and was affecting World wide light and all plants need light to make their food or they die.
Anyway, at its peak the USSR had 45,000 warheads in 1988.
I do not know the USA’s peak Nuclear stockpile but they had a total of 31,255 warheads in 1967.
By the way, Lenny, I spent decades working in a RADIAC LAB and was thus involved technically in the Nuclear Physics industry.
This from the POV of the electronic instruments used to detect Radiation and thus involved also in Health Physics. That is I had to learn all about nuclear and other radiation and contamination with radioactive particulates and their affect upon the body. I’m not thus speaking in ignorance.
I love bars that PLAY the music u request…
Ccr playing the scene.
Run thru da jungle!
@ ronnie anderson says at 8:54 pm …….
https://www.facebook.com/RepublicaCatal3/posts/1037607539675183
Absolutely heartbreaking Ronnie. They’ve many enemies and few friends.
Right now Catalan politicians are surely carrying a real heavy burden on their shoulders and must be holding discussions constantly. Announce UDI or not? Announce UDI and what … next? A Spanish Government take-over, key players imprisoned and even more violence? Not necessarily from the Guardia Civil, but the fascist yobs in their midst and from further afield. And all we’ve got to do is put a cross in a box.
‘Spain: Unionists tear Catalan banner to pieces as rally against referendum in Barcelona.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPb4Z3C0xAk
‘Madrid rallies against Catalan referendum.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL7o13vhcBM
………………………….
Does anyone else on here get the feeling that the situation in Catalonia has put the wind up Theresa May et al? She’s now planning to meet Nicola Sturgeon and it’s Nicola this and Nicola that. Nicola her bestest pal, lol.
…………………………..
There was a discussion earlier on Scotland Tonight about fracking and I was delighted to see that some scientist? based in Newcastle seems to have admitted defeat. Asked by John MacKay if he sees any forthcoming challenges to the ban he said no. That’s an end to it (or words to that effect). Nicola of course will have to ensure that Westminster doesn’t claw black any powers, that is until such time as we get our Independence.
And a map of European countries that ban fracking. Great to see that Scotland is coloured red. Yippee!!!!!
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/01/complete-ban-on-fracking-to-be-announced-this-week/
…………………………………………..
@ stewartb says at 11:23 pm …. Its a sad day when contributors btl on this site that (allegedly) all support the same cause – viz. Scotland’s independence – cannot debate and disagree without personal insult. Do we not have enough opponents insulting us?….”
Spot on Stewart. The Unionists who visit (or even post on here) must be having a right laugh. We’ve now got the … you said it. No I didn’t. You did it. No I didn’t. You did it. Reminiscent of squabbling in a playground and not exactly conducive to garnering further support.
……………………………………….
@ Jomry says at 11:37 pm …. ”I am on holiday at present in Catalonia…..”
Thanks for the great post Jomry and Yes if we had control over broadcasting in Scotland we’d be free in the blink of an eye.
…………………………..
That’ll surely stick in the SNP Baad crew’s craws. You know who I mean, lol!
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/03/snp-government-increases-happiness-among-scots-how-much-well-it-depends-on-whose-survey-you-read/
Still trying to post this and another (with no links) from 6 hours ago! Splitting this up. What’s going on?
@ ronnie anderson says at 8:54 pm …….
https://www.facebook.com/RepublicaCatal3/posts/1037607539675183
Absolutely heartbreaking Ronnie. They’ve many enemies and few friends.
Right now Catalan politicians are surely carrying a real heavy burden on their shoulders and must be holding discussions constantly. Announce UDI or not? Announce UDI and what … next? A Spanish Government take-over, key players imprisoned and even more violence? Not necessarily from the Guardia Civil, but the fascist yobs in their midst and from further afield. And all we’ve got to do is put a cross in a box.
‘Spain: Unionists tear Catalan banner to pieces as rally against referendum in Barcelona.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPb4Z3C0xAk
‘Madrid rallies against Catalan referendum.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL7o13vhcBM
Still trying to post this and another (with no links) from 6 hours ago! Splitting this up. What’s going on?
@ ronnie anderson says at 8:54 pm …….
https://www.facebook.com/RepublicaCatal3/posts/1037607539675183
Absolutely heartbreaking Ronnie. They’ve many enemies and few friends.
@ Lenny
Get a wee sponsor sheet the gither or a crowdfunder mah friend. 🙂
Pit me doon fir a score or more.
Totally scunnered with this site. I’ve been trying to post two posts off and on all night. One with no links at all and tried posting the other (with links) by breaking it up.
It’ll be interesting to see if this one is accepted.
They have many friends and few enemies Petra. EFTA only fir Scotland now. No way do I want to be part of the EU after they sold out the good people of Catalunya.
Membership is a false narrative. Just like the union.
Ah’ve just opted for a 10 year old Macallan.
Oops, this should be FUN!
Speak laters SCO…
Mibby.
Ha, ha, ha! Coming fast and furious now.
………………………..
Does anyone else on here get the feeling that the situation in Catalonia has put the wind up Theresa May et al? She’s now planning to meet Nicola Sturgeon and it’s Nicola this and Nicola that. Nicola her bestest pal, lol.
…………………………..
There was a discussion earlier on Scotland Tonight about fracking and I was delighted to see that some scientist? based in Newcastle seems to have admitted defeat. Asked by John MacKay if he sees any forthcoming challenges to the ban he said no. That’s an end to it (or words to that effect). Nicola of course will have to ensure that Westminster doesn’t claw black any powers, that is until such time as we get our Independence.
And a map of European countries that ban fracking. Great to see that Scotland is coloured red. Yippee!!!!!
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/01/complete-ban-on-fracking-to-be-announced-this-week/
…………………………………………..
@ stewartb says at 11:23 pm …. Its a sad day when contributors btl on this site that (allegedly) all support the same cause – viz. Scotland’s independence – cannot debate and disagree without personal insult. Do we not have enough opponents insulting us?….”
Spot on Stewart. The Unionists who visit (or even post on here) must be having a right laugh. We’ve now got the … you said it. No I didn’t. You did it. No I didn’t. You did it. Reminiscent of squabbling in a playground and not exactly conducive to garnering further support.
……………………………………….
@ Jomry says at 11:37 pm …. ”I am on holiday at present in Catalonia…..”
Thanks for the great post Jomry and Yes if we had control over broadcasting in Scotland we’d be free before you could say ”And by the way take Trident before you shut the door behind you.”
…………………………..
That’ll surely stick in the SNP Baad crew’s craws. You know who I mean, lol!
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/03/snp-government-increases-happiness-among-scots-how-much-well-it-depends-on-whose-survey-you-read/
Let it breathe…
Just like ra whisky.
Nick-Nack Robinson is a can’t.
Visca iCatalovely.
Splitting this one up!
Fracking (along with Trident) was my number one reason for getting totally involved in the Independence movement and joining the SNP, so I’m absolutely over the moon about this. The very thought of our lovely country being irreversibly decimated is just too unbearable to think about.
For anyone visiting this site trying to make sense of the news, basically being reported as the SNP not giving a damn about the Scottish economy / jobs, please get online and do your homework. It’s a massive threat to our environment, health, and many lucrative industries, such as whisky and tourism. And of course there’s a great deal more that one could say about how utterly detrimental fracking is, but it’s too lengthy to get into on here.
Westminster Tories, politicians of all hues in London, don’t give a sh*t about Scotland, the workers or the economy, especially as they are seen to be stymying our oil industry / renewable energy sector (until it suits them). This is all about them lining their own pockets, once again, at the expense of the Scots / Scotland. For others such as the Scottish Tories it’s all about them sooking up their English bosses backsides.
MANY individuals who are involved in handing out fracking licenses sit on committees such as The Economic Affairs Committee at Westminster. Prior to Indyref1 this crew were calling for fracking to be made an URGENT National priority.
The crew AS OF 2014: Lord Hollick, Baroness Blackstone, Lord Carrington, Lord Griffiths, Lord Lawson, Lord McFall, Lord May, Lord Monks, Baroness Noakes, Lord Rowe – Beddoe, Lord Shipley, Lord Skidelsky and Lord Smith 12/06/2014.
At least six of them, have / had interests in the global energy industry. We can take it that MANY others on this Committee, in the House of Lords and in the Commons, do too.
Lord Lawson has links to the Central European Trust which represents BP and Texaco, both involved in shale gas.
Lord Griffiths is director of Goldman Sachs which recently launched their own shale fund.
Lord Hollick holds shares in Samson Resources which is invested in shale gas in the US.
Lord McFall holds investments in FTI consulting which advises the industry.
Lord Skidelsky is invested in Janus Capital,which holds stakes in oil and gas firms with shale operations.
Baroness Noakes holds shares with a number of firms with interests in shale gas (Shell, BP Group and BP) and British Gas owner Centrica. Centrica has invested in Cuadrilla exploratory operations in the North East of England and is a major beneficiary of government policy on fracking.
Cuadrilla’s other owner, US based Riverstone, invests in a range of energy assets around the world. One of its partners is former BP chief executive, Lord Browne who has had roles advising the Westminster government.
Energydesk at Greenpeace has also highlighted that the ownership of many of the firms prove impossible to verify as the full list of share owners are obscured by large ‘nominee’ share holdings through financial institutions.
Good morning Petra.
Good morning Hamish100.
We are Scotland.
Love ye all.
X.
@ Cactus
Eh’ll see yir 10 year auld Macallan and raise ya a wee Islay Bowmore fae 1992 😉
Let’s get muntered mah friend 😉 Fir Catalunya and fir Scotland. 😉
and fir Sma Axe
@yesindyref2 says: 3 October, 2017 at 11:57 pm
““– accusing the SNP and SG of doing nothing and virtually demanding they do something ””
“No he didn’t, he didn’t even mention the SNP or SG. not even You were doing exactly the same thing you have been harping on about for weeks now once.
Read his posting again – or did you even read it at all?”
Bloody hilarious!
You accuse me of not reading his post and get all het up that, “he didn’t even mention the SNP or SG. not even once”.
So what did you not understand in my claim that YOU actually reposted, “You were doing exactly the same thing you have been harping on about for weeks now – accusing the SNP and SG of doing nothing and virtually demanding they do something”.
I’m saying he has been harping on that Nicola Sturgeon has been doing nothing, that the SG have been doing nothing and that the SNP have been doing nothing for weeks now and that here he is now claiming that the EU is doing nothing.
What the hell did you think that was supposed to mean?
What a right shower of counter productive numpties Wings seems to be attracting these days. It is perfectly obvious that there is good reasons why Nicola is NOT calling a referendum and she has not changed her tune. What has changed is the Westminster Government’s doings and claims in regard to the uK exit from the EU.
It would be extremely foolhardy for the SG to call a referendum that they could well lose until the UK exit idiocy works its way to a conclusion.
I have absolutely no doubt that Nicola Sturgeon not only knows exactly what she is doing but so do the SNP and her civil service, (Scottish employees), and her legal advisors team.
Just as have the Catalan Government and their civil servants and legal advisors. These people do not work upon gut reactions for indigestion can be mistaken for gut reaction.
Go read the news of yesterday and note the MEP’s vote in the EU upon the UK UKExit negotiations. They know the score but must do things by the book. If you cannot work out what their vote to delay the Trade Negotiations are meant to show then perhaps it is time you sat down and thought about it a bit but ask yourself why is Theresa so insistent upon the EU negotiators quickly, before all else, negotiate the free trade terms? Then ask yourself why Theresa has announced that she now wants to meet with Nicola?
Things have been going on yet here we have Whingers, Oops! Wingers yelling that Nicola, the SG and the SNP are doing nothing.
Of course they are not doing anything on the surface because it would be foolish to do so. Politics is often like a wee duck on a pond. All serene above the water line and paddling like mad below the surface.
Morning Cactus. I’m waiting to see if part two of a post I’ve been trying to send off and on for over 6 hours now turns up. It’s getting to be a full time job on here.
How are you doing? What are you getting up to? Just thinking again tonight that it won’t be long now until we get our Independence. What on earth will we do with our spare time then, lol?
To a Tam Petty!
Ur on the list.
Genius.
’17.
Pure dingied lol. I’ll prop up the corner o the bar meself ya cnuts 😉
Eh ken what we will dae Petra, What we have always done. Argue amongst wirself. At least we’ll argue in an Independent Scotland. 😉
I too had one walkabout post earlier, one was all.
S’chool, excellence everybody.
Ahm heedin’ south.
Talk laters…
B beautiful.
Soon.
Ehm no talking to you again Cactus ya dick 😉 Pure ignorant btw. Get it right round ye. 🙂
I’ll fleh meh ain plane.
@ William Wallace says at 1:40 am … ”Eh ken what we will dae Petra, What we have always done. Argue amongst wirself. At least we’ll argue in an Independent Scotland. ?”
You’ve got a point there William. Lot’s of it going on here, lol. I’m off to bed. Tomorrow’s another day … to listen to mair arguing, lol.
Aweright William Wallace, ye dicking around?
Zat ra whisky talkin?
Let’s hear it..
Mon ra bar.
Well eh Wiz Cactus. Till ya slung iz a deafy yah cunt 🙂 25 year auld single malt vs 😉
If you are no capable o bar duty then let me haud it up fir ya 🙂
@Robert Peffers
You’re getting yourself in a right fankle, Robert, and it seems to me that you are in danger of being a person constantly giving advice to someone else about a subject of which they are already familiar (and probably more so than the first person).
Calm down.
You on ra 25 year auld bud…
Hauld ra bar.
Ffs.
Gie us sum poetry ya dick… 😉
Glasgow style.
Poetry ya say ya cheeky prick
Dundee boy on the mik
dinnae giz yir shite ya dick
get oot mah pub eh’m feelin sick 😉
Love ya Cac sis
O/T Yes. I was also damn sorry to hear it confirmed that Tom Petty was no longer with us. Still, he has left a fine legacy that will live on for ever.
(My current “tipple” is Bootliquor, courtesy of SOMA FM, which is 320 proof, if you get my drift…)
G’night all. Soon there will come a Day…
We have been here, there an everywhere NSE & W.
Ahm atta impromtu west end party.
I love oor Scotland.
Love the love Xxx.
Love William Wallace.
Fuckin’ legend.
U know.
Takes ane ti ken ane 😉
Guan Yirsel Cactus. Wish eh wiz there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuAd0wGEYlE
HOMEbound peeps…
Talk soon.
iCata.
Aye.
X.
Waiting for the stars to shine…
Ahm ootside Partick Police Station looking furra taxi..
Ahm innocent, ah didnae do a bad thang.
Love ra polis.
Do me.
Hey William Wallace..
Dae you know Scunner?
Fuck all taxis happening here.
Ahm yer Uncle Travelling Max.
Cast your cares away, worries for another day.
Let the music PLAY.
Doon at Fraggle Rock.
Aka Jim.
Ahm in a taxis.
Fucker tried to take a detour.
Evasive maneuvers!
That’s what ah say.
Sorted it.
It’s 5.
One is HOME.
HOME is one.
The bottle is open…
Love ye WW, ya bonnie dick 😉 😉
Glasgow style.
It’s 5 anna ½hrs.
Daylight.
i think the Rev also said something similar about a 2 option referendum
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/questions-for-snp-conference/
Good morning Roger ~
Ah’ll probably be up fur another 3 and a ½ hours or SO like.
How’s yerself?
Dat cool William Wallace fellar has crashed out ¬
NB: Keep that beautiful vibration a-going you cool you.
It is Wiki-Wiki Wednesday. Be a real Straight Shooter!!!!
Where are the riot squad?
Fuck you.
Apollo 9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbdWt3UDXhs
Juice it up.
Five-five-5!
WOW! Ah don’t remember this scene!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5tmMsxCo3E
Do you?
Welcome to
BrUKexit!All aboard suckers…
Eh naw.
Aye Aye.
WHERE ARE THE RIOT SQUAD iCATALONIA?
(It shall not go unnoticed into the night)
Into the night.
Into the morning.
We’re past the hour of ’17.
See the bit in the above where the drowning guy says to the drowning girl…
That’s powerful stuff.
Likey xx.
I saw you driving by me earlier on tonight pretty lady.
How you doin’?
Ahm good.
Xx.
Anybody actually monitoring this site? Amazing what gets allowed through, especially when a small list of names (6) of individuals handing out fracking licences / having interests in energy companies, as per Greenpeace, has been blocked constantly. What’s going on?
Am so happy and so very relieved that our Scottish Government are stopping fracking ever happening here in Scotland 🙂
That is brilliant news !!!
Thank you Nicola Sturgeon, Paul Wheelhouse and your very clever team who got it right =)
Thank you Valerie 🙂 And all the footsoldiers who worked for this too xxx
Scotland a shining example =)
Scotland is indeed a shining example beautiful Ghillie x =)
The blue fuse of #Scotref has been lit…
Cheers 2U iCatalonia.
Burn on.
Mwah.
Love everybody.
Not one person denied.
ONE LOVE.
Smallaxe knows.
LOVE ALWAYS.
The King of Spain does not do himself any favours.
Is he ignorant of the facts, sheltered from the reality of events in his own country? Or really as nasty and selfserving as he appeared?
As for Nick Robinson. His lies do not age well. His evasion and cowardice less so. What a donnart (sp?) fool to imagine that folk don’t see right through him. What a horrible way to live.
Rev Stu, it will be interesting if you EVER get a honest answer from the man. Think you might be near the back of a long que though.
Good morning daylight!
Mike Oldfield talked about a Moonlight Shadow.
Mon the pixies!
Top tune.
I am a vampire hehe!!!
Give me ur blood.
Good morning Nana 😉
Hey there Cactus 🙂
So true.
Love everybody.
Not one person denied.
ONE LOVE
Smallaxe knows x
LOVE ALWAYS = )
Catalonia 🙂 A new day dawns.
May this be a wonderful day for you all = )
@Ghillie
I doubt he’s ignorant of the facts Ghillie. No one could be who owns a phone, a tablet or a computer. The King of Spain is doing what any monarchy and establishment would do when faced with folk seeking self determination and (whisper it) a want away republic. He’s making stuff up as he goes along and using the power of the state to enforce it.
The Spanish government declared the vote illegal. They being sole arbiters of Spain’s law and constitution, you’d think that would be that. How and ever, being the legislative body of a state doesn’t make your laws ethical, democratic or even right. It simply ensures that you control the nature of the laws that are made. How many regimes throughout history, legislated for and committed the most heinous of acts? How many states committed acts of mass murder, naked discrimination against any demographic they saw fit, acts of civil and human rights abuse. I can think of a few and I’m sure most folk reading could make a pretty decent list of their own.
The point being, that when decent people felt an injustice was done against them, they said enough! They made a stand against those acts of injustice and made themselves heard. They marched. They voted. They put themselves in harms way and in many cases were persecuted for their stand and their beliefs.
The Spanish monarchy won’t and can’t see it that way of course, but no real shock there. He could have done much to calm the situation, heal wounds between state and people. He chose not to and I believe chose poorly. He now has a large wantaway section of the population and no fallback position of diplomacy or negotiation. This leaves limited options on the table for the Catalonian government and people.
The eyes of every country should be on what happens next.
Good morning beautiful Ghillie xx ~
Today is a new i-day.
Love. Love. Love.
Mwah x.
This be the ultimate 24/7 thread!
Check all ra timings.
have-i-got-evasion-for-you/comment-page-1/#comment-2305396
OT do not miss this short highlight video of Labour Dumfries hustings.
Leonard accuses Sarwar of having different views in private on Brexit
Sarwar accuses Leonard of expressing different opinion on Corbyn in private. Each accuses the other of disloyalty.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1919219121661253&id=1905629936353505&_rdr
Dumfries hustings link (had to split post on my phone)
Haud the boat, we were coming close to 750,000 Winger comments…
But actually, this is comment 2,305,399.
See above, howzat?
Excellent.
I see that Puigdemont, the President of Catalonia, has stated that the region will be ready to declare independence from Spain within days; act at the end of this week or the beginning of next.
I had wondered if they would make an announcement on the 6th October (Friday), historically the date of a prior call for UDI in 1934. Lluís Companys, elected by the Parliament of Catalonia as new President of the Generalitat after the death of Francesc Macià in December 1933, declared a Catalan Republic within a Spanish Federation. The breakaway lasted less than a day due to Spanish forces bombing the regional government’s offices. Party leaders, including Companys, and the Catalan Government were sentenced by the Spanish Republic and jailed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_declaration_of_independence
Interesting, as pointed out by some on here previously, that Croatia, Slovenia and Kosovo (partial) gained their independence through UDI which has been recognised internationally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice_advisory_opinion_on_Kosovo%27s_declaration_of_independence
‘Since its declaration of independence from Serbia (enacted on 17 February 2008),international recognition of Kosovo has been mixed, and the international community continues to be divided on the issue.
As of 27 February 2017, the Republic of Kosovo has received 115 diplomatic recognitions as an independent state. Notably, 111 out of 193 (57.5%) United Nations (UN) member states, 23 out of 28 (82%) European Union (EU) member states, 25 out of 29 (86%) NATO member states, and 36 out of 57 (63%).
Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) member states have recognised Kosovo. The Government of Serbia does not recognise it as a sovereign state, but has begun to normalise relations with the Government of Kosovo in accordance with the Brussels Agreement……’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Kosovo
NOT advocating UDI for Scotland, FAR from it, however the following are worth a read.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/salmonds-parting-shot-scotland-could-leave-the-uk-of-its-own-accord-9862386.html
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/10/12/the-case-for-scotland-making-a-unilateral-declaration-of-independence-in-may-2015/
Links
https://blogs.gov.scot/international/2017/10/03/northern-neighbours-riga-conference-2017/
http://indyref2.scot/a-test-for-british-politicians
https://www.arcofprosperity.org/the-infuriating-but-necessary-european-union/
Three of the oil majors have signed a carbon storage deal on the Norwegian Continental Shelf (NCS).
http://archive.is/JTp8W
https://randompublicjournal.com/2017/10/02/damn-right-there-was-a-referendum/
ICYMI: Here’s tonight’s report on the Scottish Labour leader hustings which took place in Dumfries.
https://www.facebook.com/alanjenkinstv/videos/1919219121661253/
https://www.dgwgo.com/business/sanquhar-eme-furniture-closure/
https://mewsingoutloud.wordpress.com/2017/10/03/some-things-are-clearer-from-a-distance/
https://www.cablemagazine.scot/the-impact-of-unmanned-maritime-vehicle-technology-on-submarine-operations/
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20171002IPR85121/brexit-tangible-progress-still-needed-on-withdrawal-terms
http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/juncker-warns-may-not-to-go-over-michel-barniers-head/
Tories To Axe All Party University Groups Because Of ‘Risky Politics’
http://archive.is/nkjeU
Oh well. Not posting so will split it up, as I don’t have the time to hang around here all day.
1/4
I see that Puigdemont, the President of Catalonia, has stated that the region will be ready to declare independence from Spain within days; act at the end of this week or the beginning of next.
I had wondered if they would make an announcement on the 6th October (Friday), historically the date of a prior call for UDI in 1934. Lluís Companys, elected by the Parliament of Catalonia as new President of the Generalitat after the death of Francesc Macià in December 1933, declared a Catalan Republic within a Spanish Federation. The breakaway lasted less than a day due to Spanish forces bombing the regional government’s offices. Party leaders, including Companys, and the Catalan Government were sentenced by the Spanish Republic and jailed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unilateral_declaration_of_independence
Tories aim to block full EU ban on bee-harming pesticides
http://archive.is/eFLKg
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/10/03/why-do-we-tolerate-the-tories-calling-themselves-a-political-party/
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/89507/tory-minister-dying-supporters-could-leave
More anti EU fake news story with appropriate corrections direct from EU.
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
2/4
Interesting, as pointed out by some on here previously, that Croatia, Slovenia and Kosovo (partial) gained their independence through UDI which has been recognised internationally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice_advisory_opinion_on_Kosovo%27s_declaration_of_independence
3/4
‘Since its declaration of independence from Serbia (enacted on 17 February 2008), international recognition of Kosovo has been mixed, and the international community continues to be divided on the issue.
As of 27 February 2017, the Republic of Kosovo has received 115 diplomatic recognitions as an independent state. Notably, 111 out of 193 (57.5%) United Nations (UN) member states, 23 out of 28 (82%) European Union (EU) member states, 25 out of 29 (86%) NATO member states, and 36 out of 57 (63%).
Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) member states have recognised Kosovo. The Government of Serbia does not recognise it as a sovereign state, but has begun to normalise relations with the Government of Kosovo in accordance with the Brussels Agreement……’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Kosovo
4/4
NOT advocating UDI for Scotland, FAR from it, however the following are worth a read.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/salmonds-parting-shot-scotland-could-leave-the-uk-of-its-own-accord-9862386.html
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/10/12/the-case-for-scotland-making-a-unilateral-declaration-of-independence-in-may-2015/
Let em roll… Nana ~
Ahm gonnae put on the kettle for oor Smallaxe.
A beautiful man.
Xx.
Lest we forget, this so-called king is a monster who murdered his own brother, shot him stane-deid as I recall, but Filipe was part of Franco’s big plan for his bright future for Spain so the incident was hushed up pronto! Cowboys & Indians probably? It happens in the best regulated families, the Cain & Abel thing, so understandable! & heirs to kingdoms have been murdering their siblings ever since kingdoms were invented!
Nana’s links time and spookily my links are about ready too. I can smell them from here. 🙂
The “Missing-Link!” Macart, that wid be Rock!
Two things I’ve read on Twitter, reliable.
Financial Times
Catalan president evaded a police helicopter tracking him, by parking under a bridge, and swapping cars to be able to go on and vote.
Just watched video of two men, dressed as Catalan Indy supporters, turned out to be police, and arrested for trying to cause trouble. Large crowd jeered as they were led into cop car, and then they cheered the police.
Absolutely disgusting and shameful, but unsurprising, and we have every right to be on guard.
I challenged a guy on Twitter, long time follower, seemed genuine Indy, who was spouting ‘illegal’ regarding Catalan, when I challenged, he immediately blocked me, but he went on to argue with lots of Indy support.
Really makes you wonder if they ‘sleep’ until they are activated.
Open your windows beautiful n Bonnie Scotland….
Let that beautiful Scottish air in.
Let the air in.
People.
NB: There’s a wee birdie whistlin’ along to the Ludovico Einaudi tune that ahm playing ra now
‘Song for Gavin’
Easy.
@Nana
“Three of the oil majors have signed a carbon storage deal on the Norwegian Continental Shelf (NCS).
http://archive.is/JTp8W”
I can’t read that Nana, I’m raging.
Potentially more lucrative in time than oil itself, and the UK Government [redacted]
Good morning Cactus. I am hoping to speak to Smallaxe later today. I will tell him you were on kettle duty this morning.
Hey you people commuting working on the 9 to 5, cheers! Shout HEY on the train.
You start in 5 minutes.
Nana , Petra thanks for the links .
Cactus , do you never sleep ? And have I missed something , is Smallaxe too poorly or worse?
I love his mantra.
Good morning beautiful Dorothy ~
My secret is to start late… and rise early, high 5!
Once ye pop, ye can’t stop, that’s me.
William Wallace knows.
A new day is born.
9am.
@ Macart Gonna add a couple more to the pan? Yum
@ yesindyref2
Aye I know how you feel.
@yesindyref2
Yeah, UKgov stabbed Scotgov and our renewables sector in the back on that. Back in 2015 Peterhead was leading the world when they pulled the rug. Not hard to see why it was done either, but what goes round… 😉
The awareness of Scotland’s right to Independence is a 24/7 pleasure.
Good morning to you LIFE!
Good morning.
To learn, is the meaning of.
Same as it’s ever been.
Stop making sense!!!
Given the dearth of talent in English Tories, I see the Times is promoting Ruth as ‘a victor in waiting’. Still, their standards for politicians, are much lower than ours.
I wish Ruth lots of luck in her ventures down south, and welcome her getting the f”k out of our face.
@Macart
Aye well, at least Sturgeon is doing something about it, with support for that Acorn Project.
Anyway, as others rise. I’m back to bed, been doing fiddly boring stuff that takes the right mental attitude which happens when it happens, if it does. Usually about 2 a.m.!
Wake me up y’all if anything interesting happens 🙂
Zzzzzz
@Valerie
Just saw that as I was about to go. Yes, compared to the rest of the top Tories in the UK I have no hesitation in recommending Davidson for the job. Good grief, honesty has a high price.
I wish Ruth lots of luck in her ventures down south, and welcome her getting the f”k out of our face.
Haha! Boy are the English in for an unpleasant surprise:D
Sam Coates from The times on the cons party
“couldn’t run a whelk stall” lol
https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/915171878876020736
Thanks for the links Nana. Great as usual. A real education.
I see that the SNP continue to do the day job and MORE. Strange that you never read about such visits or hear about them on the BBC / STV. Westminster will be aware of course and won’t be one bit pleased that we’re refusing to stay in our shortbread tin.
https://blogs.gov.scot/international/2017/10/03/northern-neighbours-riga-conference-2017/
And you’ve got to laugh at Sarwar and Leonard carping on about poverty in Scotland blinded to the fact, eh!, that one of the potentially richest countries in the world has been robbed blind by the English party that they support. Nothing ever changes. Standing in public denouncing each other like a couple of nasty school kids. How any of the people interviewed could support either of them, the Labour Party in general, just beggar’s belief.
https://www.facebook.com/alanjenkinstv/videos/1919219121661253/
It’s not looking good for the Toxic Tories, average age of Toxic supporters 72 …. party dying off, and now having to dump the Toxic Tory Teenagers ‘’sever links with every Tory university group in the country in a bid to detoxify their brand. A confidential internal Tory report seen by HuffPost UK calls for “risky student politics” to be moved completely out of the party structures….’’
Meanwhile we’re stuck with Ruth Davidson and her OO and racist cabal. Had she to get rid of them support for the Tories in Scotland would drop to well under 15%, imo.
http://archive.is/nkjeU
Ha, ha, ha! Good one from Rees-Mogg. Is he beginning to see the light? See what we can all see?
‘’Jacob Rees-Mogg has compared this year’s Conservative conference to a North Korea-style rally, saying the party will face a crisis unless members are given more stake in it. The backbencher, who has been packing out fringe meetings, said ordinary party members had no power to debate policy compared to when he entered politics…..’’
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/10/03/why-do-we-tolerate-the-tories-calling-themselves-a-political-party/
Cactus: “Song for Gavin”
Whenever I hear that track, I feel like he wrote it just for me. You know what I mean?
Macart @ 8.13 am
Thank you for that.
What I suspected but in this day and age couldn’t quite believe. I pity the people of Spain.
Their monarch belongs to the Dark Ages. And he is a fool to boot. There was an opportunity for diplomacy and a better way forward for his country. He blew it.
The future belongs to the People of Catalonia =)
heedtracker says:
Aye, good riddance, as they say.
Is there anything Davidson hasn’t done a U turn on? Oh wait, never abandoned the ‘No Surrender’ policy right enough
UK constitutional law blog have published two articles, one from both sides of the debate.
Today we publish two posts on the Catalan referendum held on 1 October. Elisenda Casanas Adam and Javier Garcia Oliva each offer differing perspectives on the process while engaging in a dialogue with one another. It is hoped that these posts will help explain to a UK audience the background to the referendum, the legal issues involved and ongoing matters of disagreement between the Spanish state and the Autonomous Community of Catalonia.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2017/10/03/elisenda-casanas-adam-the-referendum-on-catalonian-independence-the-position-of-the-catalan-authorities/
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2017/10/03/javier-garcia-oliva-the-referendum-on-catalonian-independence-the-position-of-the-spanish-authorities/
I am puzzled by some reactions here about the EU. The EU was never going to make contentious definitive statements about Catalonia until as an organisation they had discussed it. We may hear considered statements about the issue after the EU debates it today. The EU default position will initially be in support of its member states.
We should have expected nothing less. We can hope for something better as the issue unravels.
What puzzles me rather more is the opinion of some anti EU elements who want the EU to use powers that they don’t want the EU to have (and which the EU actually don’t have).
Exactly Reluctant Nationalist ~ The second and last time aye posted this song on here on Wings… was the night that things just happened, at Grenfell – spooky!
Allow me (this is the hair-raising version:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgSQcybSFVk
Watch from start to finish.
My favourite tune.
Of the now.
Welcome back to life!
What are we doing to each other?!
Wow Nana. And the rest of you =)
This is a new kind of university 🙂
@ Cactus
Crashed oot, nip in hand and music blaring. The responsible half came in and turned it aff at the back o 6. Apology letter posted tae neighbour 😉 I’m supposed to be daing stuff the day but tae hell wi it. Eh’m aff back to bed fir a while. Eh’ll face the hangover at noon. 🙂
https://twitter.com/AlynSmithMEP/status/915493971740299264
Formal European Commission statement and debate at 1500 Strasbourg time.
I imagine you will be able to watch the debate here
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/plenary/video?date=04-10-2017
” Brexit: Border in the Irish Sea a red line for DUP “
This might be May’s biggest political problem. At the behest of the Irish government the EU may insist that NI is in the single market and customs union with the Irish Rep. How the UK solves the interface between NI and mainland Britain is the UK’s problem.
No DUP, no majority.
http://archive.is/yhxAp
You know, if Ruth Davidson were given a seat in the House of Lords she could be Secretary of State for Scotland.
Catalonia,strike while the iron is hot. Dont put indy on the back burner.
I Love William Wallace ~
I Love ye all ~
Goodnight 😉
@ Ghillie
I’m learning new stuff every day Ghillie.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/catalan-referendum-dangerous-use-force-spanish-police-confirmed-amnesty
Oops looks like the King’s speech had an impact, not what they hoped!
https://twitter.com/cataloniadirect/status/915495766529122305
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/ireland-an-afterthought-during-brexit-campaign-when-i-was-cameron-adviser-1.3242732
Oh lordy lordy “we are where we are ”
https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/915214949055639553
What puzzles me rather more is the opinion of some anti EU elements who want the EU to use powers that they don’t want the EU to have (and which the EU actually don’t have).
Puzzled maybe, shock and horror more like, after witnessing the Spanish police enforce the law with extreme violence, against peaceful EU citizens, and then the EU said and say nothing.
This is the real issue here, for the rest of Europe. Maybe its just a very creepy acceptance by the EU and any government, that extreme violence must be used in these circumstances, just to retain civil order alone.
Its not like civil order can’t break down very rapidly. Look at the mass English riots in 2011, in every major English city. Its not hard to imagine how all of that went down across the EU, barbarian at the gate style, with UK law enforcement essentially having to give up and wait for the tory UK gov to give the live fire order.
If Spain shows Scotland anything, its that the EU is as conservative and reactionary against change, as any UK gov, red and blue tory. No wonder we heard nothing from any of them in 2014, let alone the possible membership of the future Scottish nation EU status.
No wonder EFTA exists. As for Scots EU membership aspirations, who cares. Cops in armour breaking a young woman’s fingers one after the other, for standing in a voting queue, in any 21st century EU country, and the EU says nothing? Fcuk the lot of them in Brussels.
@ galamcennalath
Yes, after decades of languishing, and non reporting, NI is certainly being brought into focus.
The pronouncement that NI should be kept in single market, was met with quite a few howls on Twitter, and understandably.
For one, it was felt Scotland voted by a bigger margin to Remain, and that’s being ignored. So conclusion is, Ireland has a powerful voice in the EU, defending their worries about Borders and violence.
Yesterday, Guy Verhofstadt tweeted – UK must stop sending deportation letters to EU citizens.
That tweet really brought home to me now, we are witnessing lots of double standards.
Of course, you defend the EU citizens getting these upsetting letters, but how can you do that with authority, when you have turned a blind eye to violence used by a member on the same EU citizens?
Turkey has attracted international condemnation for their heavy hand, refused entry to EU for lack of democratic processes, yet Madrid is immune???
I was devastated over the Brexit vote, my on line avatars were the EU flag, and since June, 2016, have amassed lots of facts to counter the naysayers.
I feel very badly let down right now. I realise they have to be diplomatic, but their very Treaties enshrine freedoms, so I can’t square that right now.
Valerie @ 9.14 am
‘I see the Times are promoting Ruth as the victor in waiting’…Well that sounds promising 🙂
Except poor lass took a bit of a slating in one of those ‘what the papers say’ thingies.
Reckoned her ‘Tory Party has to Man Up’ was a clickbait/headline grabing stunt.
And that they were struggling to find any substance to her.
NOW that is not fair! Oor Ruth is great at stradling a cannon, grinning at big dead fish, wearing camouflage, lying through her teeth, you name it, she’s got IT when it comes to making the perfect Tory leader.
Just saying though, we mibee shouldn’t count our chickens before they’re hatched. Sigh.
Yesterday, Guy Verhofstadt tweeted – UK must stop sending deportation letters to EU citizens.
Yes that’s a blatant example of just how full shit these guys really are. They think they can wade in to one country’s affairs, for EU citizens, yet in Spain, nothing.
If anything shows just what a pack of politicians the EU really is, its Spain today.
You can start to see how the EU is so hated by Britnat’s like Farage too. Verhofstadt’s style of slamming in to this UK, from another country, with such determination, is probably enough to drive Britnats crazy.
Thanks Nana & also Cactus for the clip!
Brian Powell @ 10.01 am Shudders. Wash your mouth out with soap. Mibee it’s safer to keep oor Ruth a bit closer to home then.
Robert Peffers 12:58 I was s talking about the time of the Cuba crisis at that time the USSR had 42 ICBM ‘s ready to launch. By the way I know they could make a very big mess but against the American arsenal at the time it was negligible .
@ heedtracker
I’ve seen Guy’s previous interventions via Brexit, and admired him for defending Rights, but you can’t then say the Catalans don’t enjoy Rights, because the Constitution. It seems incredibly hollow now.
If the Spanish Constitution allows repression of a democratic process, then how the f”k are they in the EU?
The law serves the people, not the monarchy, the thugs or the elected. The law once persecuted gays and black people, we are supposedly evolved beyond this shit.
In other news, Ireland been referred to ECJ, for not collecting 13billion from Apple. Those lax tax regimes catching up now.
Valerie, Galamcennalath and Dave McEwan Hill and many others,
All good points re EU and what the EU should have done and what the EU CAN do.
I am disappointed that more European Nations did not speak out immediately against the violence meted out to innocent citizens of Europe. Though there will be a debate today at 3pm.
I am still hopeful.
Scotland got it right. Perhaps we are leading the way again =)
Catalan President Carles Puigdemont to make official statement on TV at 9pm CET
Tweeters are posting this link
http://www.ccma.cat/tv3/directe/tv3/
Bit confused – Mayhem says the independence movement has vanished and this was Ruthie’s doing on her own she got rid of the pesky NATS .
Yesterday from the conference of the Damned we had a Minister saying the EU negotiations were doing really well and Mr Davis was playing a blinder.And the border question solved .
We next had a spokesman for the EU saying no real progress has been made and NO trade deals or extensions will be possible until the Tory negotiators get their fingers out their collective arses.
Who to believe ? yes that was a wee joke .
New Scottish Tory Kirstene Hair now up at conference telling them they have transformed the political landscape, and SNP are in retreat.
Lots of other brazen lies too.
Valerie says:
4 October, 2017 at 10:54 am
@ heedtracker
I’ve seen Guy’s previous interventions via Brexit, and admired him for defending Rights, but you can’t then say the Catalans don’t enjoy Rights, because the Constitution. It seems incredibly hollow now.
It doesnt get much more hypocritical than this EU wise. They are clearly turning a blind eye to fascist Spain and Spanish police brutality. Its turning a blind eye to fascism, by Brussels, by all of them.
I follow Guy Verhofstadt on Facebook and he’s forever laying into Turkey for example. So for me, the EU is a real no no now.
EFTA will be just fine.
One of the major drivers behind Scottish democracy is shaking off or at least changing whatever it is that passes for democracy here, where Scots are governed by 500+ English MP’s, 900 Lords a troughing, BBC, fantastically rich royal family etc.
The idea that Scotland should at least aim to eventually shake off all that Westminster bullshit, moving to a PR parliament democracy… and after all that, have another pack incredible hypocrites like those in Brussels, wade in to our democracy, is just insane.
I blithely voted Remain last year. I wouldnt do that again.
Glad to see kirsten hair wondered what my mp she looked like
Dave McEwan Hill says:
4 October, 2017 at 9:50 am
“I am puzzled by some reactions here about the EU. The EU was never going to make contentious definitive statements about Catalonia….. What puzzles me rather more is the opinion of some anti EU elements who want the EU to use powers that they don’t want the EU to have (and which the EU actually don’t have)….”
I’d go further. I see absolute hypocrisy in those who use the EU’s position as vindication for EFTA and EEA arguments.
If Scotland had been a Sovereign member in the EU, it would have been a player in the EU’s reactions to Spain, and remain in a permanent position for pressure to be brought to bear on the Spanish from within the EU. Maybe we could have achieved something, maybe we couldn’t, but at the very least we’d have had a formal input as a sovereign member state.
To argue the EU’s response to Spain provides due cause to stick two fingers up to European membership in lieu of membership of a European Free Trade Agreement and European Economic Area is rank hypocrisy. You are no better than the UK’s Brexiteers, who want Europe to throw itself under a bus but at the same time want all the perks and trade agreements which Europe provides and maintains. We’ll tell you to get stuffed, but please, please, please let us trade with you.
The EU’s measured response which is causing such dismay to the Catalans also has to consider whether Spain itself could survive the loss of Catalonia in the economic short term, whether Catalonian Independence would cause a domino effect in the Basques region and Galicia. Suddenly Europe could see Spain spiralling out of control and threatening instability and crisis for the whole of Europe. Fascism really could crack down in Spain, perhaps causing another Spanish civil war and no doubt causing some sleepless nights on Gibraltar.
In 1938, as the Fascists steadily won their Civil War and rumbled along the coast seizing territory, the UK sent the combined Mediterranean and Home Fleets to Gibraltar, all the biggest battleships of the day, Rodney, Nelson, Royal Oak, Hood, to name just a few, two carriers, a swarm of cruisers and destroyers, as a show of strength to the Spanish Fascists who might have considered rumbling on into Gibraltar. Hands off Gibraltar! It was a considerable show of strength, gunboat diplomacy from the Royal Navy’s top drawer, but a show of strength and superiority which the UK could not muster today.
Spain could literally be a powder keg if mishandled. To appease the Spanish and curb the expectations of the Catalans, at least in the short term, does seem a responsible approach to assure a little stability, let tempers cool and give some chance for rational arguments and negotiations to prevail.
Take heart Catalonia, the strength of your feelings, legitimacy and absolute determination has been heard and registered, but what happens next requires cool heads and hard bargaining. Forestall the imminent bloodbath which looms, and allow Europe time and a chance to find an alternative course of action.
My greatest regret in the Scottish context is that we are outside at the periphery of events, when, if we had already been a sovereign member state of the EU, we could have assisted the Catalans tenfold.
One good thing about Brexit and all the anti-EU thing is that at least it means the BBC will openly report everything about Catalonia so as to show up Spain and the EU in a bad light “We’re better out of that”.
Macart says:
4 October, 2017 at 9:03 am
@yesindyref2
Yeah, UKgov stabbed Scotgov and our renewables sector in the back on that. Back in 2015 Peterhead was leading the world when they pulled the rug. Not hard to see why it was done either, but what goes round… ?
………….
Longannet was leading the way in CCS technology when the UK Government cancelled it in 2011. At the time Longannet had set up a successful pilot project and was the only power station left in the running for the £1 billion on offer for the full scale project which they needed to progress from the pilot stage.
After Longannet was cancelled the UK Government started to make noises about Peterhead as a possibility or White Rose in Yorkshire. Again £1 billion on offer. Then withdrawn in 2015.
Meantime the Canadians set up the Boundary Dam CCS project which went into operation in 2014. Seems to be going Ok after initial teething problems.
heedtracker at 10.27
You obviously didn’t understand my post.
I picked up a very useful distinction on a debate on RT this morning. It discussed the difference between “legality” and “legitimacy”. What has happened in Catalonia on so many fronts may be argued legal but much of it was in no way legitimate.
Laws and constitutions are only legitimate if they represent the views of the people who live under them.
If a majority of the people of Catalonia do not wish to continue as citizens of the Spanish state the Spanish constitution in no longer legitimate in Catalonia.
These legality arguments are the transparent refuge of imperialists and they should be seen through and binned.
The United Nations Charter is unambiguous
“All peoples have the right to self determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status….”
Before somebody pops up and says this was about decolonisation -it was not. It was merely a clarification of articles 55 and 73 in the original post war UN Charter in the face of some foot dragging by unwilling colonial powers. It is a general statement about “all peoples”.
These nit picking “legal”arguments would make me laugh if I wasn’t greeting.
It was legal once to execute homosexuals and burn witches at the stake and Stalin’s and Hitler’s pogroms were legal too.
Constitutions similarly are made to suit those in power but they are not legitimate if they are no longer agreed by a majority of the people who live under them. That is why constitutions and laws have constantly changed all the years we have lived on this planet. There is resistance from those that benefit from them then inevitably they are changed.
The opinion of the other people in Spain about Catalonia is interesting but has no legitimacy as neither has the opinion of the people of England about Scotland’s choices.
Off Topic. FILM.
BBC Reporting Scotland as you’ve never seen it before!
Oh! Sorry I got that wrong——it’s Catalan News TV in Catalonia yesterday.
General Strike.
http://tinyurl.com/y8haudej
My greatest regret in the Scottish context is that we are outside at the periphery of events, when, if we had already been a sovereign member state of the EU, we could have assisted the Catalans tenfold.
But in the same comment you say The EU’s measured response of doing and saying nothing about police violence in Spain, is the right one.
How’s that fitting with your wish that nation state EU member Scotland could have assisted, by er, saying and doing nothing, with our fellow EU members and assorted EU leaders like Verhofstadt, who says on Facebook his Political views are Liberal?
Most odd:D
We may well see a deflection going in in the EU debate today.The debate may well be all about the disgraceful and entirely inappropriate behaviour of Spanish Government forces and not about the real issue – Catalonia’s absolute right of self determination.
Heedtracker
At NO POINT did I say that the EU response was the right one. I pointed out that it was the predictable one.
As I said you obviously did not understand my post.
Heedtracker, I don’t see the EU’s position as a solution, but a holding action to forestall what threatens to become a bloodbath.
I ultimately trust the EU to reign in Spain’s fascist misconduct, and find a lasting settlement acceptable to all, but that kind of mediation requires having the confidence of both parties. The Catalans with the most to gain should be easy to negotiate with, but the Spanish with the most to lose will be more difficult to keep on board.
Breeks says:
4 October, 2017 at 11:51 am
Heedtracker, I don’t see the EU’s position as a solution, but a holding action to forestall what threatens to become a bloodbath.
There’s all kinds of holes in that though. Human rights, EU citizens right to not be violently assaulted by police for example. There can no more fundamental issue for Brussels than what happened in Spain this weekend.
Think about it, if this had happened in Dundee, Edinburgh, Inverness etc. Do you really think that the EU’s silence is not being taken as tacit approval of fascist Spain, across harc core Cons Europe?
EFTA is just fine.
It is worth pointing out that any EU official statement is based on majority decision and that is dependent on the who the member states have elected.
Currently the centre right and right are the majority, only last week a proposal for debate on Catalan was voted down.
Yes, I think that Breeks is correct that many of them will be thinking along those lines. It would (from an EU point of view) be messy and expensive if Spain breaks up acrimoniously.
If the member states had elected more centre left representatives then EU opinion would probably be more on the human rights side.
@ Breeks says at 11:25 am ……
Absolutely spot on Breeks. Excellent post.
Ooops and posted prematurely.
Thanks too to Dave McEwan-Hill (and others) for a number of sensible posts over the last couple of days or so re. the EU.
Credit to the FM for condemning the violence in Catalonia.
O/T
Credit to the Scot Govt for the fracking ban. Banning fracked gas imports would be even better.
————————————————————————————————
Anyone got any news on the much requested extension of Freedom of Information legislation to Registered Social Landlords? We were told we’d get an announcement this Autumn.
————————————————————————————————
It’s a shame Shona Robison ( Cabinet Secretary for Health) and Michael Matheson ( Cabinet Secretary for Justice) have adopted a “nothing to do with us” attitude when informed of human rights abuses in Scotland by Scottish public bodies.
They – Mr Matheson wouldn’t even give me the courtesy of a personal response- made it clear they don’t want to know when told that the SPSO is unfit for purpose and won’t consider complaints that public bodies in Scotland have committed deliberate abuses of power to commit deliberate human rights abuses, then did a cover up.
Anyone got experience of The Human Rights Act, Article 6(1) ?
What I find interesting in this Catalan affair is the unionists here in the UK.
Who have supported Spanish Prime Minister Rajoy, and parroted his claim that the Catalans broke the law and held an illegal independence referendum on the constitutional future of their region/country.
I wonder if these unionists could tell us how many of the countries in the world would be independent nations today if they hadn’t exercised their right to self determination.
As the Catalans are finding out freedom is rarely given freely by those who control you and your country.
Currently the centre right and right are the majority, only last week a proposal for debate on Catalan was voted down.
UK’s the same. None of that explains EU mute response. Merkel’s centre right but took in over a million refugees.
@Legerwood
Good catch. I remember the Longannet project right enough. Again literally on the verge of launch and the rug yanked.
Has somebody spiked the woman’s water ? Or is this a sign – choking on her own words.
Shes going down like a lead balloon !
Press will circle the wagons of course.
Christ bring back the gong show !!!!
Get the hook out this is painful pish !
This is the guy that will more than likely be the Prime Minister in the very near future.
” .. Shame people with no knowledge or understanding of Libya..”
I reckon that many Scots are well aware of what went on in Libya and that Cameron scuttled off ONE day after the report was released that highlighted the hellish part that he and his Tory Government played in decimating that country.
……………
‘SNP call for Boris Johnson’s resignation over shock Libya comment.’
THE SNP have backed calls for Boris Johnson to be sacked after he said that a war-torn Libyan city only has to “clear the dead bodies away” to become a world-class tourist and business destination.
Stephen Gethins, the party’s foreign affairs spokesman urged the Prime Minister to take action after comments made by the gaff-prone Foreign Secretary at the Tory party conference last night.
“The UK government bears a particular responsibility for the situation in Libya given its failure to plan the aftermath of military action in 2011,” said Gethins.
“The humanitarian disaster that has unfolded in the country since that intervention is rightly seen as one of this governments worst foreign policy failures.”
He added: “The Foreign Secretary’s lack of grasp of this dire situation shows that he is completely unfit for the office.”
Gethins’s remarks follow calls from Tory backbenchers and by Labour to sack Johnson who has been accused over the past few days of undermining May’s position on Brexit.
Last night Johnson was accused by Labour of being “unbelievably crass, callous and cruel” about those who died in the battle to reclaim Sirte from Islamic State (Isis), after he was asked at the Conservative party conference what it was like visiting Libya as foreign secretary.
Speaking about the potential of Sirte, the Libyan city where Muammar Gaddafi was killed, Johnson drew gasps and embarrassed laughter from the audience as he said: “There’s a group of UK business people, wonderful guys who want to invest in Sirte, on the coast, near where Gaddafi was actually captured and executed as some of you may have seen.
“And they literally have a brilliant vision to turn Sirte, with the help of the municipality of Sirte, to turn it into the next Dubai.
“The only thing they’ve got to do is clear the dead bodies away and then they’ll be there.”
Heidi Allen was the first Tory MP to call for Johnson to lose his cabinet job over the Libya remarks.
She said late on Tuesday that it was “100% unacceptable from anyone, let alone the foreign secretary”, adding: “Boris must be sacked for this. He does not represent my party.”
Her Conservative colleague Sarah Wollaston MP joined in the criticism of Johnson adding: “Demeaning jokes about real people murdered in Libya would be crass even from a stand-up; appalled to hear this from our foreign secretary.”
This morning Wollaston said on the BBC’s Today Programme that Johnson’s remarks were “crass, poorly judged and grossly insensitive” and said that he should apologise and “consider his position”.
But instead of apologising, Johnson took to Twitter late on Tuesday night to attack his critics. “Shame people with no knowledge or understanding of Libya want to play politics with the appallingly dangerous reality in Sirte,” he tweeted.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15575096.SNP_call_for_Boris_Johnson_s_resignation_over_shock_Libya_comment/
Prophetic in a way that the standing ovation comes while the Prime Minister’s choking
Am I being mean?
On Google I noted this headline and text from the FT …
” Catalonia’s silent majority struggles to unite against secession – Financial
38 mins ago – The answer lies, at least in part, in the nature of Catalonia’s silent majority, a group that is divided against itself on all matters except their rejection of secession ..”
… if course the article is behind their paywall so can’t be read freely.
Why assert that the silent majority opposes secession?
Votes cast gave 90% Yes. It seems reason to assume that votes stolen or prevented would split the same way. Also, like everywhere else, there will be people who don’t vote and have no interest in politics. Therefore, it seems clear to me that a majority of Catalans want independence.
I can only deduce that the FT have an agenda to promote.
Old hag Theresa giving a boak inducing monologue…”thats what i’m in it for”…pleeeeze…!!
I Think the guy who handed the Prime Minister her P45 at the Tory Conference might have been the Comedian Lee Nelson ?
While I appreciate the comments regarding the Eu and how possibly they are restricted in their response to events in Spain .
If the ministers of the EU dont get off their collective hands events as we had on Sunday might just be a practice match for this fast becoming a fascist Spanish government ‘
Both sides cant be seen to lose face , the Spanish Government have to show whos in charge , The Catalan Government have to be seen to protect its citizens , Impasse ! that requires the EU to mediate .
Drastic circumstances that require Drastic measures before people lose their lives .
We’re 4 countries, we’re one country and the Nasty Nats are trying to separate their country from our one country that is a collection of 4 countries
I’m dizzy!
We gave the voiceless a voice says Mrs May while choking on the words and sucking a lemon the chancellor just sold her
What the fuck is this “british dream” she keeps slavering on about ?
Jeezo….struggling to stay awake here…
Nicola Sturgeon unable to Tweet at the moment due to uncontrollable shaking with laughter
@ Dr Jim says at 12:20 pm … ”Prophetic in a way that the standing ovation comes while the Prime Minister’s choking. Am I being mean?”
Add to that the Union Tack being blown down in Edinburgh and Tereeza being handed her P45 at the Conference with the guy (perpetrator, lol) being frogmarched out to loud Tory cheers. With video. Fairly brightened up the reading of the New Testament’s Book of Revelations. Nice one.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15575366.Theresa_May_handed_P45_during_her_conference_speech__with_video_/
Dear God! That speech was catastrophic. Definitely blood in the water at this point.
I’m so glad I didn’t have all the wax cleared out…
Tune in to shockingly awful Teresa speech, “case for Scots indy ref2, denied!” Huzzah, with beeb gimp close ups of Fluffie and Colonel Ruth. Usual tory neo fascist word choice and that’s plenty.
Tereeza … ”There is a big problem in our politics when one politician refuses to be friends with the other.” I’ve heard it all now. I think I’ll listen to her whole speech later to give myself a belly laugh.
She’s gone hoarse now and can’t stop coughing. God it’s horrendous to watch. So bad I’m beginning to feel sorry for her … and then I think of the millions that are starving in the UK.
“To succeed on television, all you have to be able to do, is fake sincerity” Bob Monkhouse.
Mother Theresa just failed that examination.
Jeez, what with the P45 and constant choking, this painful speech must be her last!
Who’s got time for this shit? I’ve got some fresh paint to watch, ffs!
Btw, folks – no second referendum she shouted, emboldened by the fascist Spanish gov’t.
Dr Jim says:
That is the problem with ‘constructs’ which came about by war, conquest, peace treaties, bribery, or what seemed appropriate to a minority at the time. They are transient and ill defined.
Spain, UK, Belgium, Iraq etc etc.. Artificial collections of nations with inherently in-built instability. They survive so long as there is enough reason to – an Empire, strong central control, external threats, whatever. When the excuses for their existence evaporate, these ‘constructs’ reach their ‘use by dates’.
However, the exact expiry date is never written clearly! For some elements of the ‘construct’, those still benefitting, dissolution is something they want to prevent.
FFS this British dreams a feking nightmare & thats before the Brexit clusterfuck round the corner. May will choke on her words .
I remember when Ed Milliband said he’d put a cap on energy prices and the Tories laughed their heads off and ridiculed him for it (he’ll destroy the economy they said)
Theresa May coughs up the same policy and the crowd goes daft
loving it
We’ll build council houses both of these parties say, then they don’t
Tory, Labour Show me the difference!
The SNP actually do the stuff they say they’ll do and the Unionist parties oppose and complain that they’re doing it deliberately to make themselves popular
I must have the wrong idea of what the day job is eh
Surely NOW is getting close to THE TIME
If May wants strong and stable I recommend ah Clydesdale Hoarse ( its the colic that diz it ) but its still strong an stabled .
A lot of good comments this morning, but first class in particular from
Macart @ 08:13,
Dave McEwan Hill @ 09:50,
Breeks @ 11:25
Careful reflection rather than a rush to premature judgement always necessary.
@Robert J Sutherland
Thanks Robert.
I closed with this earlier: “The eyes of every country should be on what happens next.”
And now?
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/915568195477626881
@ Breeks says:
@ Dave McEwan Hill
I have taken on board what you have both said about adopting an anti EU position. Perhaps, in the cold light of day you may have a wider point and I am always prepared to consider that and adjust my stance. I don’t think that Scotland as a member state would have had any influence over the EU’s stated position though.
It’s been quite emotional watching the countless videos of state sponsored violence and rather disheartening to observe the EU’s response to that. I sincerely feel that it sends out the wrong message and that has featured heavily in my change of stance regarding full membership of the EU.
I was entirely pro EU up until recent events and although my change of stance can be seen as emotive and illogical, it can also be seen as an entirely natural human response. Empathy and compassion have a part to play in changing my mind here. I tend to let my heart make decisions alongside my head. To the pragmatist, entirely foolish I know but, to the idealist an entirely appropriate response.
My only real concern with regard to Scotland and the EU is that Scotland becomes an independent nation first and foremost. The only thing that has changed (at least for the time being) is my complete support for Scotland becoming a fully paid up member of the EU. EFTA suddenly seems much more appealing in light of recent events.
It is not “rank hypocrisy” for a person to change their mind.
William Wallace @ 14:49,
‘Course it’s not hypocritical to change one’s mind in the light of events. And you are not alone – we’re all equally appalled at the brutal state suppression evidenced last Sunday, and all the worse since it’s not in some third-world tinpot dictatorship, but right in our own supposedly civilised backyard. Plus the lukewarm reaction from the EU has been disappointing in not more openly defending the standards they are all signed up to follow and protect.
But what do you think that EFTA has said, done or is likely to achieve? I don’t hear anyone voicing strident comments about their complete lack of response. So there’s definitely double standards being employed here, and other agendas being served.
This thing is far from over yet, and we have no idea what is being said or done “behind the scenes”. But if there is a peaceful way forward to be found, you can be sure that it will only come with the help of the EU, and it certainly won’t be coming from EFTA.
Robert J Sutherland please explain why EFTA should make any statement on the events in Catalonia? Do you expect ASEAN to make a statement as well?
@ RJS
“But what do you think that EFTA has said, done or is likely to achieve? I don’t hear anyone voicing strident comments about their complete lack of response. So there’s definitely double standards being employed here, and other agendas being served.”
Whilst I respect your point of view regarding lack of action or comment from EFTA, the fundamental point to be made here is that Spain is not a member state of EFTA but, it is a signatory to the Lisbon treaty and a fully fledged member of the European Union. The EU is compelled to act whereas EFTA is not and can not.
I’m not entirely sure as to whether the heads of state of individual EFTA nations have officially made any statements regarding recent events in Catalonia. I would assume given what you have said that they have not.
William Wallace @ 16:30,
Yes, WW, but the crucial point is, what difference between iScotland being a full member of the EU, or instead being a member of EFTA? That being the one choice in our power to make, as clearly informs your own thinking.
As a full member of the EU, we would be able to add our weight to the deliberations of an entity that does have the legal and political power to do something, as you also recognise. (Look at the influence RoI has on the Brexit talks, for example.)
As a member of EFTA, our influence is absolutely zit. EFTA is just a business-friendly trading deal. Nothing more.
Potential to make an impact or total impotence? Now there’s a hard choice! =grin=
Robert Peffers,
“I note you even quote Rock’s pet, “verbal bully”, claim that he uses as he attempts to bully me as you do now.”
Your posts on this article have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that you are aggressive verbal bully here.
I am trying to bully you?
Robert Louis and yesindyref2 also trying to bully you?
That has as much credibility as unionist hacks claiming that the Rev. Stuart Campbell is bullying them.
If you are as clever as you think, why don’t you have your own site to flog your “knowledge”?
Instead of contaminating every article on someone else’s website with your verbal diarrhoea.
Why haven’t you ever written a book on the history of the union?
@ RJS
You are shifting the goalposts somewhat here and straying away from my original point in response to breeks & DMH’s “rank hypocrisy” comments and onto hypothetical scenarios about Scotland’s future relationship with the EU.
Has anyone noticed how the EU has made it clear an indy Catalan would be out of the EU?
We were told the EU wouldn’t make such judgements unless asked to do by the member state ( with regard to Scotland).
So, was that mince or has Spain asked the EU to speak out or what?
So far, it seems all the EU announcements are anti-Catalan independence and I think any other independence movements would be treated with the same contempt – including Scotland’s.
The EU only appeared to be the good guys because we compared them to Tory and Labour UK Govts.
The reality is so far, the EU has shown itself to be out for the EU. Fundamental human rights of self-determination and freedom from torture and human rights abuses are things to be ignored when it does not suit the EU’s agenda.
“FGS I’ve tried to post this 4 times now over 2 hours.”
I’m going to say this one last time and then, with the very greatest of reluctance, I’m going to ban you for NOT FUCKING LISTENING.
DO.
NOT.
POST.
THE.
SAME.
COMMENT.
REPEATEDLY.
If it falls foul of the filters the first time you try, THE SAME FUCKING THING WILL HAPPEN EVERY OTHER TIME. OBVIOUSLY. The filters don’t change from one comment to the next. All you do is create a giant mess for me to clean up behind the scenes. You do it over and over again. I don’t know how many times I have to say it.
Sometimes I have to go out. Sometimes I’m just taking a break for a few hours. When I get back, I’ll check the comments needing approval and your comment will be approved. That’s how it works. That’s how it’s always worked. That’s how it will continue to work. Everyone else manages to follow the rules.
Your posts are enormously long, and when I get in and find 20 of them in the approval queue, all several screens high, I have to scroll endlessly up and down trying to work out which ones are new and which ones are the same ones posted five times in a row. It’s UNBELIEVABLY tedious and time-consuming and soul-destroying and I’ve FUCKING WELL TOLD EVERYONE NOT TO DO IT A HUNDRED TIMES.
Do not do it again. We clear?