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Wings Over Scotland


Half a decade away

Posted on April 28, 2018 by

Holiday Boy is taking slacking to a new extreme to mark the onset of spring, and we’re sad to inform you that there’ll be no Cairnstoons on Wings for another couple of weeks while our intermittent satirist rearranges his Fabergé eggs or something.

Entirely by coincidence, yesterday we were doing some overdue admin, and as we filed away some previous bits of crayon-work we couldn’t help but be struck by the prescience of a few cartoons from various times, 2013 in particular.

So just in case anyone had forgotten (attention spans are short these days), here’s some of the insight we’re all currently missing.

This week we’ve heard Scotland In Union whining that some of their more delicate secret hyper-wealthy elite donors have been “harassed” by their names being leaked by the Electoral Commission:

This week we’ve seen a naked attempt by Westminster to sideline the Scottish Parliament for the next SEVEN YEARS by granting itself the power to legislate on devolved issues without Holyrood’s consent. Five years ago there was this warning from our golf-loving pencilsmith:

The battle has sparked the usual screaming from the Unionist parties that the Scottish Government are obsessively grievance-mining in pursuit of independence and need to get back to the “day job” of somehow mitigating UK government policy by using powers Holyrood already didn’t have. Just like always:

This week we’ve had yet more endless flag-waving fawning over yet another Royal baby used by the media as a distraction from domestic catastrophe. Previously:

Federalism’s been back in the news:

And Henry McLeish is saying things again:

Faced with the worst and most incompetent Tory government in living memory, Labour is slipping further behind in the polls (less than a year ago Jeremy Corbyn was level pegging with Theresa May for “best PM”, now she leads by 14 points) as it tears itself apart with multiple civil wars of factional infighting, just for a change:

And of course, there was this pre-indyref classic:

And some things are just timeless:

And no, Cairns, you’re not getting repeat fees for these. Now hurry up and get back to work, you bloody hippy layabout.

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    1. 28 04 18 12:56

      Half a decade away | speymouth

    156 to “Half a decade away”

    1. Anagach says:

      Artistic types….tut.

    2. TheMadMurph says:

      AT what point are people going to be angry enough that this callous, incompetent, corrupt, self-serving Tory government pisses enough of the people of Scotland and the seemingly timid SNP into action and decisive vote for our self-preservation?

    3. Helena Brown says:

      I know he goes off on holiday a lot but he leaves good stuff in the archives for just such an emergency.
      We need to cut him and you some slack.

    4. Almannysbunnet says:

      Golf playing hippies! What has the world come to?

    5. HandandShrimp says:

      It wasn’t as if people were not warned.

      I do hope the latest duplicity by the Tory Brexit negotiators will galvanise resistance not just in the Yes movement but those on the No side like Chisholm and Mcleish who can see the threat to devolution. That Labour will ditch the petty Weir principle and do something positive.

    6. Smallaxe says:

      Chris Cairns (Hippy?) I don’t even own a golf bat! Far out man.
      😉

    7. Bob Mack says:

      As far as I can gather the SNP are waiting for the optimal time for indy ref2, whilst at the same time the Westminster government are working to strip Holyrood of many of its powers to prevent another indyref.

      This race has implications for both parties. If I am right then the SNP should already know that if they hesitate too long they won’t get the chance anyway for another referendum.

      They might not yet feel confident enough to win, but hesitation will mean we surely lose in any event.

    8. fillofficer says:

      dat guys gotta pencil fulla lead 😉

    9. mogabee says:

      And those show exactly why you guys are so good together.

      He makes the pictures and you do the words!

      (And the sarcastic comments) 😀 😀 😀 😀

    10. Baldeagle58 says:

      Some classic Chris Cairns work there, with some of them being scarily accurate. Especially worried about the WM wrecking ball after the No Vote. Exactly what WM would now like to do now.

    11. Josef Ó Luain says:

      The sharpest and most politically intelligent pencil in the business.

    12. Proud Cybernat says:

      Same as it ever was…

      https://i.imgur.com/qA1E1m7.jpg

    13. Welsh Sion says:

      Sorry that it’s oldish news (my excuse: I’m playing a bit of catch up), but,

      “Scottish Conservative party leader Ruth Davidson has been named by Time magazine on its annual list of the world’s most influential people.” (19/04/18)

      WTF? Seriously? Ruthy, “influential”? On the world stage? More likely to give you a dose of influenza than being “influential”!

      And as for her choice of words,

      “Ms Davidson admitted there had been some “ups and downs” while attempting to conceive …”

      There usually is, love.

      (Party politics aside, congrats to both Jen and herself.)

    14. Cuilean says:

      I think everyone needs a wee break at the moment.

      Let’s call it ‘the lull before the storm’.

      We all need to take deep breaths. Rest up. Take the weans, dugs, beer to the park/beach and CHILLAX.

      Breath. In. Breath. Out.

      Stay calm.

      The on-ding tae end aw on-dings is coming.

    15. Bill McDermott says:

      Steve Bell eat your heart out! Chris puts you in the shade every time.

    16. Smallaxe says:

      O/T
      For anyone wondering where GA Ponsonby is, he’s taking a break from twitter so that’s why his account is shut at the moment.

    17. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Cartoon No.2 has come true courtesy of the Daily Wreckord.

    18. Macart says:

      Yoons aren’t big on self appraisal to be sure. I’m more convinced than ever that not a single one of them owns or has access to a mirror.

    19. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Macart@11:47

      There’d be no point in Liam Fox having a mirror. His reflection wouldn’t show up in it.

    20. Dan Huil says:

      Chris is class. The branch-sawing one about breexit is a beaut. Talking about McLeish I see he’s actually got something right at last in today’s National:

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16190616.McLeish_says_Scottish_Labour_should_back_First_Minister_over_Tory____power_grab___/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor

    21. David McCann says:

      Classic Cairns!
      I think my favourite is the BBC/Pacific Quay one.
      I’m choking on my square sausssage!!

    22. Highland Wifie says:

      Evergreen these are, which goes to show that nothing has changed and nothing will ever change as long as we allow unionist parties to govern us.
      Not long until the constitutional crisis plays out and the final face off forces even the sleepiest of Scots to wake up to what’s happening.

      Have a good break Chris but hurry back!

    23. geeo says:

      Classics, yet relevent still today.

      Just shows how good these are, and how little has changed.

      The stars and planets are aligning, the Scotgov tactics have proved genius, and i bet/hope, those who wanted action NOW, months ago, have finally admitted they were 100% wrong wanting to “go early”.

      The Continuity Bill has been THE game changer, it could be the most important bit of legislation at Holyrood in its history.

      All we need now is the Indyref announcement and that is on its way soon. (Conference, probably).

    24. David Cameron says:

      I see a few comments about the SNP being a bit ‘soft’ or ‘slow’ … have they not done well by the people of Scotland under difficult circumstances? Also, lately they have been paving the way for Scotland to have a smooth slide into the wider world after independence. Anyone who thinks they are not doing that as part of their preparation for Indy and independence, should take a closer look at what’s actually going on. Having done such a good job, I am confident that they are on top of what is their prime reason for existence and their number one motivator .. INDEPENDENCE.

      IF anyone thinks they have information or knowledge above that of the SNP then step up to the mark and assemble your army. I am content to allow the party who have worked for 70 years with this single goal as the target, to get on with the day job !

    25. ScottieDog says:

      The cockpit one reminds me of an urban myth about why middle eastern pilots say “inshallah” when they respond to air traffic instructions. Now a pilot exclaiming about allah willing it might give you the heebyjeebes but it’s simply the equivalent of flying into Dublin where everyone says “Good luck”!

      In the case of brexit though it’s very much a case of hope for the best. Maybe Chris should extend the cartoon to brexit where Willie and Ruth etc are sitting in the jump seat shouting “god willing” as the aircraft dives towards the ground!

    26. Terry says:

      Ive said it before and I’ll say it again – these cartoons should be billboards all over Scotland in the next ref

    27. Andy-B says:

      You’re a real talentec guy Chris, they made me smile again.

    28. Duncan Gray says:

      I feel like a historian from the future trying to explain how there were so many warnings dismissed with inevitable outcomes which lead to the strange extinction of the Scottish people. When arguments they previously ridiculed get continuously proven correct and they still don’t change your mind, then it’s not reason that will enlighten them. Only fear and selfishness seem to be the prime motivators for some.

    29. Tinto Chiel says:

      Chris Cairns: a man for all seasons in these classic cartoons.

      Stu loves him, really.

      Why is Lord For Foulkes-Sake dressed up as a Puritan woman and John Prescott as a bed-hopping Tory?

      So many questions for the enigma that is CC.

    30. Archbishop of Dork says:

      The last toon is great but it depicts a ScotLab politico clearly undergoing Gestalt therapy. Surely a Brexiting Britnat Labourite wouldn’t opt for something so continental in origin?

    31. faolie says:

      Love the plane stalling one

    32. Les Wilson says:

      To be honest I do not mind his “many” times off, too much. We are lucky to have him he is simply the best and the master of his trade. But, make it a week off at a time, slacker Lol.

    33. galamcennalath says:

      Everything seems to move at a slow pace. Little changes and often events repeat. I have always thought the final driving force for Indy would come unexpectedly. Others have said the same.

      Few people are engaged blow by blow the way we are on here. Anything which builds up slowly just never seems to heckles up in the general population. The Vow, Smith, the betrayal, all happened in slow motion. Brexit and being dragged out of the EU is even more viscous!

      We need something to jump to the fore and really get folks’ backs up. I think we might be on the verge of that.

      While Scots are 50:50 about Indy, they are 80:20 about having Holyrood. Truth is, many won’t understand exactly what is devolved and reserved, but there is a strong consensus that Holyrood is a good thing and does a good job of domestic issues. If the Tories are seen to be threatening it, that might be the match to the fuse.

    34. Archbishop of Dork says:

      1998 Scotland Act: ‘There shall be a Scottish Parliament’.

      2018 EU Withdrawal Bill: No means Yes you Jock bastards

    35. Artyhetty says:

      Great to see these again. They are all excellent.

      Hopefully we will see more very soon because there is always something to pick up on with 100% of the Britnat media anti SNP, no matter what they do.

      Even though we have social media and many do not but into these daily rags, the billionaires behind them, know that their propaganda gets through to a good number of people to sway minds in whichever direction required to distract, con and confuse those who subscribe and follow a particular narrative.

      These cartoons get to the point of what is going on, and they are powerful.

      To counter the lies, bias and demonisation of the SNP at the hands of the so called media, we need to think about what is going on behind the scenes at Britnat headquarters.

      Re:D.Cameron@12.24

      The SNP are the party of independence, for sure. They have been and are managing to work for Scotland and Scotland’s people, while warding off the disgustingly biased media, while working to keep Scotland afloat so that England’s Brexit doesn’t sink Scotland.

      All while making strides in repairing the damage that Labour and the Tories left as a legacy, after generations of rule, who worked hard to kept Scotland poor and begging.

      So yes, while the aim is independence it is also a huge job against huge odds to invest in infrastructure, jobs, homes,land and environment, health and social care, etc etc. Having had 10 years to make a good start, the Britnats are livid about it. Their aim is to keep Scotland tethered, poor and begging, while siphoning away Scotland’s wealth of resources.

    36. Artyhetty says:

      Typo, terrible grammar too, second paragraph, buy into, not but into! Doh! 🙂

    37. I don’t know if I have this correct but if Westminster can dissolve the Scottish Parliament anytime it likes,maybe that is their plan if Nicola calls ref2 so even if we have won over the no voters we stlll won’t be able to get our freedom ???

    38. Craig P says:

      Does anyone know anyone who regrets their ‘No’ vote yet? Unionists of my acquaintance have if anything got more pig headed, boiling in frustration that the SNP haven’t yet curled up and died. They think about the First Minister the same way I thought about Margaret Thatcher. Odd people.

    39. louis.b.argyll says:

      And to think, the ‘toff’ in the first cartoon could conceivably be a ‘clan chief’.

      Disgusting.

    40. jfngw says:

      Are we to have a clause 11 in the next referendum, if so here is the question.

      Do you give consent to the Scottish Gov withdrawing from the Treaty of Union.

      Yes (consent)
      No (consent, but you have been consulted)
      Spoiled paper (consent, you’re not getting out of by avoiding the question)

    41. louis.b.argyll says:

      Some will change from No to Yes.

      Many more will likely not vote, this time.

      How could they? And who can blame them.

    42. Gaelstorm says:

      How did I miss/forget that Reporting Jockland one? Genius.

    43. yesindyref2 says:

      Chris Cairns clearly gets a lot of holes in one.

    44. Liz g says:

      Craig P@1.58
      Yes Craig, I know of two who deeply regret their no vote.
      and two new yes voters,one who didn’t vote and one who wasn’t in Scotland.
      These will be voting and voting yes,as I’m making sure when the time comes, they don’t miss their chance.

    45. Breeks says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      28 April, 2018 at 1:27 pm
      I don’t know if I have this correct but if Westminster can dissolve the Scottish Parliament anytime it likes,maybe that is their plan if Nicola calls ref2 so even if we have won over the no voters we stlll won’t be able to get our freedom ???

      The bottom line is that Westminster is staking virtually everything on the presumption it can do just that. Holyrood so far has yet to fully commit, but when the time comes, Scotland too will invest everything to defend its Constitutional Sovereignty, which of course means Westminster loses all claim to being Sovereign over the people of Scotland.

      Holyrood however controversial, is a distraction. There may be a credible argument that Holyrood is essentially a super committee set up by Westminster which properly swears fealty to Westminster, and has no sovereign mandate of its own. But while that argument might perhaps empower Westminster to interfere with some aspects of Holyrood, Holyrood is not just a building, committee, or a forum. It is the meeting forum for the MSP’s elected to office by the Scottish people, and as such, it is a sacred covenant between the Scottish people and their elected representatives, which currently leaves Westminster with no direct mandate.

      The distraction factor is that Westminster might indeed threaten to shut down Holyrood, but if they were stupid enough to try, the Scottish Parliament have the Ace of Trump cards up their sleeves, and could simply shed the constraints of Holyrood as easily as a snake shedding its skin, and simply stand apart from the disputed institution of Holyrood, and declare themselves the properly elected Scottish Government given its mandate to govern from the Sovereign People of Scotland and forswearing all others. As often quoted before the Holyrood building was built, the Scottish Parliament could convene itself in a field.

      Before you ask yourself whether that could be made to stick, then weigh up in your head the prospect of Scotland proving that Scotland the Nation exists, versus Westminster’s task of proving that it doesnt.

      IF Westminster was to assert that Scotland ceased to exist, then the event which caused it to cease to exist can only be the Treaties and Act of Union. Not withstanding the roaring avalanche of counter arguments from ourselves, set them to one side for just a moment, but a Westminster which claims Scotland was extinguished in 1707 must then explain away every concession and recognition ever made to Scotland, from Devolution to 300+ years respect for Scots Law, Education, Monarchy and Legislation. We have Scots Law, and Scotland defined by its jurisdiction, and vice versa, we have Scotland with its acknowledged sacrosanct Scots Law. QED.

      Put it simply. Suppose your neighbour put up a tent on your lawn, called it Holyrood, and said your lawn was his. To keep the peace, for years you let the mad fool believe his delusion, and let the tent stay safe in the knowledge you have title deeds to prove the lawn is yours. Now the mad fool is threatening to remove your tent, just to prove he has the power to do it.

      Who cares? Let the clown do what he wants. For all the windbag’s protestations and histrionics, he may or may not be entitled to remove the tent, but at no point does he have the power to overrule your title deed and ownership of the lawn. He may or may not have sovereignty over the tent, (suddenly debatable since its removal is complicated by the fact that the tent is actually on your property), but be quite certain, just because you never threw the tent off your lawn, that does not constitute any surrender of your sovereignty over your lawn, and it never will.

    46. ahundredthidiot says:

      Craig P @1:58

      at least 6 I know openly announcing their switch to Yes, three having doubts due Brexit. I do know dozens who, as you suggest, gotten more pigheaded about it. Actually most of the No voters I know are just downright angry – a result (i think) of their switch from Labour to Tory to ‘stop’ the SNP.

      Little bit funny actually, selling your principles out to preserve the ‘Union’!

    47. Robert Peffers says:

      @Baldeagle58 says: 28 April, 2018 at 11:12 am:

      “Some classic Chris Cairns work there, with some of them being scarily accurate. Especially worried about the WM wrecking ball after the No Vote. Exactly what WM would now like to do now.”

      Ach! Baldeagle58, No tae fash yesel. The unified British/Tory/Labour/Liberal/Democratic/Ukip Pairty o Lunndon will likely no demolish oor pairliament ava.

      Mairlike tae convert it intil a Hotel/Casino wi concessionary ootlets tae Amazon. Fast food concessions tae McDonald’s, KFC an Burger King.

      Wi twa three coffee shops, like Starbucks, Caffe Nero an Costa.

      Then they’ll hae tae add in an ASDA an a TESCO supermarket an mibbies an ALDI an a Lidls tae.

      Hoo an ivver they micht pit in a Bank o England an a Santander’s sae’s a’body micht rin oot o siller wi a yon retail ootlets.

      They kin aye justify a you iz creatin guid joabs fir tae boost the afu baaaad! Scottish economy.

    48. Robert Peffers says:

      @Macart says: 28 April, 2018 at 11:47 am:

      “Yoons aren’t big on self appraisal to be sure. I’m more convinced than ever that not a single one of them owns or has access to a mirror.”

      Aiblins they dinna, but they sure as hell have access to the Daily Wrecker, Mail and Express.

    49. Ken500 says:

      Some anti SNP diehards of a conservative nature. Dislikes all politicians with a vengeance. Are now writing angry, disapproving e-mails to every Tory they can find. There are lots ‘told you so’ moments. Did not vote at the last election. Probably voted NO but now regret it? The language is terrible. Alex now gets approval.

    50. louis.b.argyll says:

      OT
      While Dragons v Scarlets (Pro12 rugby)
      is on BBC 1 WALES..

      AND
      Gloucester v Bath (Aviva premiership)
      is on Channel 5

      Glasgow v Edinburgh
      Is on Sky Sports.

      Must Scots pay our BBC license AND Sky sub’s to watch our already heavily subsidised national sports?

      How about a £5 pay per view, once a given match is 90% sold out..Surely with advertising there’d be some benefit to the club’s and sponsors.

    51. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      An impressive review of just a few, some before I finally discovered this site.

      I don’t want to encourage the reprobate scribbler too much, but I have the notion that indy would get a terrific boost if only we all could deliver one or two of his best efforts (hard to select, I know!) on a postcard or A4 sheet to every household in Scotland.

      With all due respect to Stu and the power of social media, it’s a great pity that there are still far too many folk who have likely never seen any of Chris’s great work.

    52. geeo says:

      @Blair “pish” Pater-son…

      Do you read the dozens and dozens of posts explaining Scots People being sovereign, then ignore them and post utter drivel ?

      Lets see if you have been paying attention.

      Q. WM decide to Close Holyrood and impose direct rule, because they believe they can, what happens next ?

      a) Scots just have to like it and lump it ?

      b) Scots take legal action to dissolve the Union on grounds of WM subjugating Scots sovereign power (the Scots People) by closing a Parly they decided was their sovereign will, to have ?

      Take yer time now.

    53. Legerwood says:

      Blair Paterson @ 1.27pm

      Westminster cannot close down/dissolve the Scottish Parliament -See this nugget contained from the judgement of the UK Supreme Court in the Gina Miller appeal on Article 50:

      “”149. In the Scotland Act 2016, the recognition of the Sewel Convention occurs alongside the provi sion in section 1 of that Act. That section, by inserting section 63A into the Scotland Act 1998, makes the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish government a permanent part of the United Kingdom’s constitutional arrangements, signifies the commitment of the UK Parliament and government to those devolved institutions, and declares that those institutions are not to be abolished except on the basis of a decision of the people of Scotland voting in a referendum.””

      While they cannot close it they can emasculated it and render it as nothing more than an impotent talking shop. Brexit and the Withdrawal Bill has presented them with just such an opportunity.

    54. ahundredthidiot says:

      Also, for CraiP@1:58

      Ball-parking here.

      50,000 people die a year and the same amount are born, give or take and this has been reasonably consisted for Scotland.

      A higher percentage of older people actually vote than younger people. Good.

      Lord Ashcroft poll shows approx 73% of over 65’s voted No.
      Approx 60% of those under 30 voted Yes.

      We need a 200,000 vote swing. Yes side lose 12k votes a year and the No 36k votes to the grim reaper (sorry folks) and new voters coming up through the ages are 60% Yes. This a double whammy for the Unionist – He and She is well and truly on the ropes here.

      So, year on year we edge closer to turning the tide in our favour. The direction of travel is obvious.

      The Unionists know this so they lie about voting intentions in the MSM in an attempt to convinvce people to give up the ghost. They also like to throw in the odd ‘people are fed up voting’ lie, which I do kind of like in a sense becuase it is always a Unionist making this point, so that tells me that they are fatigued. Good.

      If this is the year, or next year, then I would like to see a brazen attempt for the heart of Scots by challenging them to vote FOR Scotland, not against Her. This way we embarrass some voters into not voting.

      Note of caution though. Currency was by far the biggest issue affecting voting intentions. Find a robust, credible solution to that question……and we win easy.

      My money is on NS delivering the knock out blow.

    55. Robert Peffers says:

      @Duncan Gray says: 28 April, 2018 at 12:51 pm:

      Now where have I heard that name before?

      “I feel like a historian from the future trying to explain how there were so many warnings dismissed with inevitable outcomes which lead to the strange extinction of the Scottish people.”

      The thing is, Duncan, that there is a strange mentality among a certain faction of football fans that seems to overflow into their political viewpoints. It is that strange phenomenon known as Team Loyalty.

      Now most young supporters begin by following their wee local team as, being young and usually broke, (The ones with more to spend become fans of club game that uses misshapen balls), and they begin to get, “My team”, loyalty.

      Now some will eventually go on to support one of the larger and more successful clubs or even become Auld Firm supporters but there is a certain number who will continue to support, “Their Team”, no matter how unsuccessful that team becomes.

      Look on the BBC text service today and you will find this news item:-

      It comes under a headline of, “NO DOOM AND GLOOM AT WINLESS CLUB”, and reads –

      Brechin City’s chairman said there is no air of, “doom and gloom”, despite the club facing the prospect of finishing the season without a win.

      The Angus team’s final game takes place at home on Saturday against Queen of the South.

      If they do not win they will become the first senior Scottish side to fail to pick up a victory in a season since Vale of Leven in 1891/92.

      Brechin won promotion to the championship last season.

      There is the mindset I’m talking about. Team loyalty becomes more important to the fans than success on the park because it is, “My Team”, for that particular fan.

      Put it another way – they are not, in this case, football fans or they would be going to watch a team that was playing great football to watch. They are simply Brechin City fans and will follow their team no matter how badly the team plays out of loyalty to that team.

      So why do you suppose there are still people supporting labour in Scotland today?

      It sure as hell is not based upon their current performance, “on the field”, so to speak.

    56. louis.b.argyll says:

      RJS, 3.14pm.
      I agree, business-cards, post-cards and A4 posters. All from recycled etc…

      Maybe Wingers within with grassroots, all agree on timing, put same ones up on all websites, local noticeboards, friendly shops etc. Then repeat at intervals.

      Deploy satire.Collectable, displayable.

    57. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      ahundredthidiot @ 15:39:

      We need a 200,000 vote swing.

      Yup. Which is about the order of the number of EU27 citizens living here. Who will all be automatically disenfranchised on 29.March next year.

      Go figure (as they say).

      Yet there are some who persist in wanting to throw all that potential support away. Your calculation is saying in effect we’re moving up an escalator that’s also ascending (and rightly so since we don’t all get Union-sclerotic with age), but those folk prefer an escalator that’s moving down, it seems.

      Just for the exercise, y’know.

    58. dakk says:

      @Robert Peffers said
      ‘They are simply Brechin City fans and will follow their team no matter how badly the team plays out of loyalty to that team.’

      That I can easily understand as Brechin City are not treacherous liars and warmongers,just a humble not very good local football team.

      Labour and all the British unionist parties are a treacherous scourge on Scotland and much of the world beyond,so the team loyalty to these immoral organisations is a moral outrage.

      It’s just that the British msm propaganda machine sanitizes their shit ‘teams’ outrages so that their supporters think they are supporting Real Madrid instead of ‘the Hedgemen’.

    59. Bob Mack says:

      Remember the EU citizens were told if they voted yes then Scotland would be automatically out of the EU. If they do not vote this time what would be the difference? Considering many may have voted no. Figures?

    60. ScottieDog says:

      “Note of caution though. Currency was by far the biggest issue affecting voting intentions. Find a robust, credible solution to that question……and we win easy.”

      It just needs a simple statement on currency. A transition from GBP to Scot pound (temporarily pegged to GBP) moving to a free floating currency.
      It’s value will be bolstered by our strong exports – especially in energy. Scotland will run a current account surplus (trade surplus) owing to our abundant resources. More often than not countries running trade surpluses run government surplus – to curb inflation.

      We won’t run an economy based on banks selling money at compound interest to inflate the housing markets or asset markets on the stock exchange.

    61. ben madigan says:

      @ Robert J. Sutherland who said:
      “indy would get a terrific boost if only we all could deliver one or two of his best efforts (hard to select, I know!) on a postcard or A4 sheet to every household in Scotland”.

      is there anything (Copyright laws?costs of a ream or two of A4 paper?) preventing local Yes groups/SNP branches printing off Chris’s cartoons (maybe 1 a week or month) and distributing them through the doors in their neighbourhoods?

    62. Robert Peffers says:

      @Blair Paterson says: 28 April, 2018 at 1:27 pm:

      “I don’t know if I have this correct but if Westminster can dissolve the Scottish Parliament anytime it likes,maybe that is their plan if Nicola calls ref2 so even if we have won over the no voters we stlll won’t be able to get our freedom ???”

      The truth, Blair, is that you have indeed got it wrong and so have a great many other independence supporting Scots. I’ve been nagging away at that point for a very long time indeed.

      Above you have just chanted out a tract of the narrative according to the Westminster Establishment’s Holy Book of the UK Constitution, (that actually has never existed).

      Like the Muslim Terrorists misquote from their Koran while strapping on their waistcoat laden with bombs or the Christian Knights misquoting from their Holy Bible while donning their armour and mounting their chargers to head off on yet another bloody Crusade.

      Yet in both instances their respective Gods are Gods of love and preach Thou shalt not kill. The gospel according to St Theresa of the BR UKEXIT is plainly quite wrong and her actions are criminally wrong actions. The Westminster creed has been preaching a false gospel from the very start of the United Kingdom Union.

      I just cannot believe so many indy supporters hold the Westminster version as the true faith when everything it stands for is transparently clearly wrong.

      I naively imagined that when Westminster publically announced, in the public domain that, “The Treaty of Union Extinguished The Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”, that all true people of Scotland would be searching out the claymores hidden in the thatch and shouting out loud, “That’s not right – we are equal partners in this hellish union and it is now over”.

      However, hardly a ripple of anger rose to the surface as Scots sucked up the Westminster gospel and meekly obeyed their London Masters. So I’ll say it again –

      The United Kingdom is legally a two partner agreement of two former independent, and equally sovereign, kingdoms. It is not now, and never has been a union of four countries and that is why it is called The United Kingdom and not the United Country of Great Britain.

      As such Westminster is the Parliament of the United Kingdom and not the de facto Parliament of the Country of England which it now runs itself as. That means if we Scots don’t like the way we are being treated by the de facto Parliament of the Country of England we give notice that they act in accordance with the Treaty of Union or we will end the United Kingdom on – (and state a date and time for the divorce).

      There is only one wee problem to this becoming fact – we must get a simple legal majority of the people of Scotland to tell our legally elected representatives that this is the settled will of the peoples of Scotland.

      Now will you please stop preaching the Gospels According to St Theresa Of the BR UKEXIT, and get your collective acts together.

    63. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      ScottieDog at 4.43

      Currency was only an issue because we took the bait and joined in an argument set up by the unionists to distract us. We gave them a target by naming a preferred option when our positions should have been “There are lots of currency options available to us and we will chose the most suitable when we are negotiating our independence.”

      No other country going for independence lost any sleep over the currency issue and I am worried to see that so many still don’t see what was done to us.

      What was done to us was that George Osborne told a BIG LIE. He would have told a BIG LIE no matter wha cturrency option we had chosen. Refusing Scotland’s use of sterling would have hugely damaged the UK economy and probably caused the biggest sovereign default in the world’s history. The governor of the B of E conceded this point as did any sensible economist.

      But Osborne could lie because we gave him a target and he had the whole media.

      They will do the same again if we do the same again.
      Our position is that there are many sensible currency options and we will chose the one that suits us best

    64. David Smith says:

      I could believe my eyes and ears today on my break when Carlisle city centre was polluted by the sound of flutes, lambegs and a procession of apes in sashes and shit polyester uniforms.
      I nearly saw my decking lunch again.
      And that’s before I saw the skinhead woman wearing a Skrewdriver T shirt and dragging her young daughter/granddaughter along for the day out…

      I’m an empathic human, get me out of here!

    65. heedtracker says:

      World class satire, especially compared to whatever it is British satire is meant to be today. Is there any at all coming out of merry olde London, there’s certainly nothing on the beeb gimp zone?

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/salmondbell.jpg

      Is this satire, or just plain olde tory The Graun trolling its Scotland reader, me!

      http://archive.is/1mhdP

      Colonel Ruth, “a decade ago anyone had told you that the leader of the Scottish Conservatives was the bookies’ favourite to be the next first minister of Scotland, you’d have given them a funny look.”

    66. heraldnomore says:

      … and I nearly puked at Morrison’s after the footie, piles and piles of crates of bedding plants piled up outside the door, but these were no ordinary crates, these were UJ crates.

      And they were full of pansies.

    67. galamcennalath says:

      heraldnomore says:

      these were no ordinary crates, these were UJ crates

      I try to avoid anything festooned with butcher’s attire. Clearly an attempt to promote the UKOK, would be my first guess.

      Lateral thinking though, do we think the same blood-on-apron branding actually increases sales in South Britain?

      It’s hard to believe it’s all political statement from the good industry, it must be driven by sales too!

    68. frogesque says:

      Is there any reason English producers can’t be proud of their country and sport a X of St. George?

      Why the butcher’s apron, unless it’s all to do with Brexit and food labeling directives from WM.

      All one overiding UJ like Schoolkids forced to wear an outmoded uniform. Def. no Saltires worn above the knee!

    69. galamcennalath says:

      Fair regularly, these days, I read something which leaves me wondering what some folks use for a brain.

      ” The UK will have to pay its Brexit “divorce bill” of up to £39bn even if no agreement is reached on a future trade deal with the EU, the head of Whitehall’s spending watchdog has said.

      The head of the National Audit Office (NAO), Sir Amyas Morse, said on Tuesday that if parliament approves the withdrawal agreement in a vote in the autumn, it will become a legally binding treaty regardless of the success of separate trade talks.”

      Morse is stating the obvious. Fair enough. It’s the ‘surprise’ expressed in the article that shocks.

      I honestly didn’t believe there was anyone around who thought the divorce bill was anything to do with any future arrangement. It’s the cost of disengaging from the EU, not buying back in!

      The article does end with ….

      ” The apparent contradiction is explained by the fact that the UK is expected to sign two Brexit deals with the EU: a withdrawal agreement and then, after Brexit, a future trade agreement. “

      … doh! What ‘apparent contradiction’?

      Why do I think this important? People look at situations and draw different conclusions. We have different opinions. We want different outcomes. It’s the nature of a society. However, when you come across stuff which really is in ga-ga-land, it does shake your believe in people’s ability to understand and make rational decisions!

    70. galamcennalath says:

      @me

      Link …

      http://archive.is/PDsqb

    71. GM says:

      Cracking post.

    72. Cactus says:

      7 days remaining to go till grassroots Scotland relaunches Yes.

      Yes Glasgow welcomes you one and all. 😉

      March off at 11:30am, KG park.

      Tis half a fortnight away.

      V / V / MMXVIII.

    73. louis.b.argyll says:

      Heraldnomore,
      ‘And they were full of pansies.’

      Sounds like same ones at my nearby Lidl.
      Near gives you the boak.
      Plus, having to avert the eyes from gazing upon it.. Lest you do a complete 180 and totally fail in your quest for shopping.

    74. Sinky says:

      The proposed merger between Sainsbury’s and ASDA will account for 30% of the UK grocery market and make life more difficult for small producers.

      Also if Sainsbury’s packaging has anything to do with it there will be even more Union Jacks on Scottish produce as the producers often don’t have a say on the matter.

    75. Liz g says:

      Dave McEwen Hill @ 5.02
      Aye ….
      Question = What currency will an Independent Scotland Use.
      Answer = The one you will using tae buying our oil wi pal!

    76. yesindyref2 says:

      I don’t usually mention posters in other forums by name, just inititals, but have to make an exception this time. Outstanding performance by Freda Cameron in the Herald forum on the McKenna thread with the “DING! DING! ANTI ENGLISH RACE CARD” and similar for “CULT”.

    77. Pacman says:

      Legerwood says: 28 April, 2018 at 3:30 pm

      While they cannot close it they can emasculated it and render it as nothing more than an impotent talking shop. Brexit and the Withdrawal Bill has presented them with just such an opportunity.

      This is being done already with Red, Yellow and Blue Tories MSP’s whose only purpose is to turn up at Holyrood and oppose, obstruct and lie about everything the Scottish government does for the simple reason that the Government is run by the SNP. They are also being helped by a media that has the same purpose.

      This is the problem that the SNP faces in running Holyrood. They have no means of communicating to the wider Scottish public of the benefit that the Scottish government has on their lives. They will only find out once it is properly constrained as will happen after Brexit.

      Going a bit off topic. There is a lot of hot air from the BritNats about the claims that services are being run better in Scotland than the rest of the UK where they highlight every minor failing that occurs.

      The SNP government is doing what Holyrood was set up for by allocating the money they receive from Westminster to services decided by the electorate who voted them in. They are also running these services in a way that they see fit.

      As mentioned, there is a lot of debate about whether services are better run here than in the rest of the UK. That is rightly up for debate but it is obvious just reading and watching the news from events south of the border that they are an absolute mess. If it wasn’t for Holyrood then services here would be the same mess.

    78. yesindyref2 says:

      @Pacman
      In fairness Labour and the LibDems (except Rimbles) supported the SNP and Greens on the Continuity Bill, and Dugdale and Labour supported them on 23 out of 24 votes about the EU.

    79. ScottieDog says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill
      I agree re currency. That’s why a paragraph like I wrote above is enough.
      It makes total sense and covers all bases (Scotland will use all the options at different junctures.)

    80. Old Pete says:

      Still celebrating Ayr United winning the First Division. When we regain our Independence it will be even better. Hurry up Nicola “now’s the time and now’s the hour”, well soon please as we need to take our chance as we might not get another.

    81. Pacman says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      28 April, 2018 at 8:30 pm

      @Pacman
      In fairness Labour and the LibDems (except Rimbles) supported the SNP and Greens on the Continuity Bill, and Dugdale and Labour supported them on 23 out of 24 votes about the EU.

      I’ll bet it sticks in their craw at having to do this.

    82. ScottieDog says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Our only mistake before was our choice. A currency union required the FULL cooperation of WM. And YES we would have got that post Indy – I have no doubt, but politically it was a blind alley and you are correct it gave them a big target. A far far better option was a transition away from the GBP. It seems to be alright for WM to have a transition away from the EU.

    83. pacman says:

      I don’t doubt that the UK government would love to implement what is detailed in below link here but given the track record that both the public and private sectors here having in relation to IT, there is nothing to worry about 🙂

      http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/04/24/china-assigns-every-citizen-a-social-credit-score-to-identify-who-is-and-isnt-trustworthy/

    84. birnie says:

      Re: Sainsbury/Asda merger.

      We do realise, don’t we, that this is really a takeover of Sainsbury by Walmart of USA?

      Another stepping stone to Brexit and TTIP?

    85. Northern Rock says:

      From the National last year:

      “Plan for a new Scottish pound ‘likely’ to be recommended by SNP Growth Commission,” insider says

      AN in-depth plan is being drawn up for an independent Scotland to have its own currency after a recognition the case for continuing to use sterling was a flaw in the Yes argument in 2014.

      Detailed work on a new monetary policy is being carried out by specialist experts within a commission established by Nicola Sturgeon to look at economic issues ahead of the prospect of a second referendum.

      Professor Andrew Hughes Hallett, a former consultant to the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, is in charge of the policy work which will be presented later this year to the SNP leader.

      “The work on the currency is being looked at by Andrew’s group in much more detail than it ever has been before,” a member of the SNP’s growth commission told The National.

      “It includes not just looking at the issue narrowly in terms of a currency but at the whole architecture required to make sure that whatever the circumstances are an independent Scotland is properly placed to be in much stronger control.”

      He added: “The idea is to get way beyond where the debate was before – do we still use the pound or adopt our own currency – and come up with detailed analysis and proposals.

      “So not only do we have a strong case for whatever option is put forward but it is backed by the proper infrastructure so the case is entirely secure and that the Scottish Government can put it forward.”

      The source said he was in favour of a separate Scottish pound and that it should be supported by a currency board which could make decisions over how it was introduced and maintained.

      Its value could either be determined by floating the currency freely on the world markets, or it could be tied to sterling, the euro or a “basket” of international currencies in order to reduce the uncertainties of a fluctuating exchange rate.

      The Danish Krona is tied to the euro, and was previously pegged to the Deutschmark.

      “My reading of the situation is that there will certainly be a change from what the position was last time and I think some form of arrangement where you move reasonably quickly and go to use a Scottish currency is likely and will at the very least be seriously considered,” the source said.

      Last year economists backed proposals in a discussion paper for the Common Weal think-tank advocating the creation of a Scottish pound pegged to sterling at a 1:1 rate.

      But they cautioned against tying the new currency to sterling because of the damaging impact Brexit may have on it. Sterling has seen its value plummet since the vote to leave the EU in June.

      Dr Jim Walker, founder and chief economist of Asianomics Group, which services the fund management industry, told The National at the time: “I agree entirely with the view that a new currency would indeed be the best option for an independent Scotland but I think that the case for it being pegged 1:1 against sterling for a protracted period is now very much more questionable.

      “With Brexit, the pound sterling is likely to become one of the world’s weaker currencies.”

      SNP MP Tommy Sheppard has already backed the case for an independent Scotland establishing its own currency and central bank.

      Sheppard told the Scottish Independence Convention earlier this month: “One of the lessons we learnt from 2014 is that it is very difficult to go into a campaign when one of your central policy points relies on consent from your opponents and therefore the next time it will be clear that what we will say we can offer and we can do that in Scotland using the political power we seek from the electorate.”

      A separate Scottish pound is already backed by the pro-independence Scottish Greens, which adopted the policy in 2014.

      In 2013 the National Institute for Economic and Social Research (NIESR) worked with the Economic and Social Research Council to assess choices on currency, concluding that a separate currency would be a “prudent option” for an independent Scotland.

      An SNP Spokesperson said: “The SNP has established a Growth Commission which, as well as making recommendations for measures to boost Scotland’s economy, will consider the most appropriate monetary policy arrangements to underpin a programme for sustainable growth in an independent Scotland. The work of the Growth Commission is ongoing.”

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15054500.Plan_for_a_new_Scottish_pound__likely__to_be_recommended_by_SNP_Growth_Commission__insider_says/

    86. Rock says:

      “less than a year ago Jeremy Corbyn was level pegging with Theresa May for “best PM”, now she leads by 14 points)”

      I predict that if there is another “snap” Westminster election, the SNP will lose more than half of the seats they currently hold.

    87. Northern Rock says:

      Excellent point made by Tommy Shepard regarding currency:

      “One of the lessons we learnt from 2014 is that it is very difficult to go into a campaign when one of your central policy points relies on consent from your opponents…”

    88. scotspatriot says:

      Rock…please supply your objective evidence ? What’s your he matter with you??

    89. James Barr Gardner says:

      O/T Link to Sue Ryder Charity and Scotland in Union WTF. Weel I guess there are no feckin’ rules that the Yoonists wull nae feckin’ drive a cart an’ horses thru! Warmonster Barsturds wull go overdrive. But ther’ days are numbered Scotland and it’s People will be free !

    90. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      28 April, 2018 at 5:02,

      While I am very much of the general opinion (like you, I think) that all diversionary issues should be parked until after independence, I do believe that currency is one issue that has to have at least a general direction set out beforehand.

      You are perfectly correct that it didn’t matter what specific option we chose before, Project Fear would have mobilised all the available FUD it could muster against it. But Northern Rock has a definite point, it was politically naive to set up the chosen option in such a way that it at least seemed to depend on the acquiescence of the Unionists. Who exploited that apparent dependence ruthlessly.

      Whatever we do, it mustn’t be that again.

      But also it mustn’t be nothing either, because the BritNat mantra would be “last time you didn’t have a Plan B, now you don’t even have a Plan A”.

      So IMO we do need to have something plausible worked out that we can sell to an understandably wary public at large, not just a vacuum with a promise to consult attached.

    91. Cubby says:

      As others have said – if we wait too long for Indyref2 then we risk losing a MAJOR about turn of no to yes votes by EU citizens. Big numbers that could be decisive. Better together cynically used them at the last referendum by saying vote yes to be out of Europe. We need to do the same and say vote yes for a route back to Europe. Also highlight how better together lied about this.

      Also highlight how they were not given the vote in the EU referendum. If they were the vote would probably have been different.

    92. Cubby says:

      R J Sutherland 10.17

      Agree with a lot of what you say. This time round we can now point out that the great UK gov is taking us out of the EU and had no plan at all for anything. Not a scooby do hoo.

      Re currency it could be helpful to point out all the other countries that went independent and currency was not an insurmountable problem. As an economics graduate I never see the great problem in practice or theory but I can understand a lot of people having concerns. The SNP have had 4 years to address this issue. Fingers crossed they are even better prepared this time.

      We should never forget the comparison of the UK gov preparedness for Brexit as against the SNP for Independence. The UK is and was a joke.

    93. Breeks says:

      birnie says:
      28 April, 2018 at 9:27 pm

      Re: Sainsbury/Asda merger.

      We do realise, don’t we, that this is really a takeover of Sainsbury by Walmart of USA?

      Another stepping stone to Brexit and TTIP?

      Correct. And perhaps EU Food standards backed by EU can resist US led deregulation, but in a Brexited UK, in or out of EFTA, Scotland wouldn’t stand a chance.

      UK supermarkets would drop EU labelling and nobody would know what you were actually eating or where it came from.

    94. Cactus says:

      Hear ye this ye prime minister…

      See when Nicola took Scotland’s Yes mandate to ra people…

      And we said YES! And see when Nicola wrote you that iScotref letter and you didnae even have the courtesy to reply.

      In consensual terms:

      1) To reply Yes, consents to a new agreed S30 agreement.
      2) To reply naw, consents to a new agreed S30 agreement.
      3) To abstain from reply, consents to a new agreed S30 agreement.

      We’ll be in touch to let you know when the date for iScotref is prime minister.. till then.

      Ain’t politics fun, hahahahaha!

    95. Northern Rock says:

      Cubby

      You just know that the other side is going to hit us with the same Project Fear attacks.

      The three main lines they will use are;

      1/ What Currency?

      2/ No EU membership

      3/ No Armed Forces

      Better Together play dirty, we need to be ready with some convincing answers.

      The ordinary punter is looking for quick, easy to understand answers.

      We are trying to get through to your average soap opera fan here.

      And as has been mentioned before on here, the odd “Gimmick” wouldn’t go amiss. e.g. Lower fuel duty or lower energy bills, bigger pensions.

      We all like some incentives and I think the odd “gimmick” will do our cause no harm at all.

    96. Ken500 says:

      Forecast the Tories to lose over 200 seats council elections. Next week. How long till May is gone?

      How many will they lose in Scotland. Next time.More than half? The lot?

    97. Morgatron says:

      Hes an artissssttteeee luv.

    98. Gary45% says:

      Northern Rock@11.01
      What currency?= Scottish Pound.
      No EU membership.= mmmm, going by the way Rahoy is treating Catalunya and the way Israel is murdering Palestinians and the EU DOES FUCK ALL, I will stay silent on that one.
      Armed forces, = Stick the Nukes in England.
      The last question will be the one that Scotland will hold the Empire by their bollocks.
      Independence or you can stick your Nukes outside Westminster, it could be a tourist attraction for the inbred morons.
      Simples.

    99. Ken500 says:

      Smith in the National website believes Scotland has the same pop as Catalonia.

      Scotland has 5.2Million. Depopulated by Westminster policues. Catalonia has 7.5Million. 4 months holidays. Plenty of time for people to be on the streets. Support for Independence in Scotland is 50/50. 2Million. Support in Catalonia is 40% 2million. Wikipedia.

    100. Colin Alexander says:

      If only the SNP fought for indy and Scottish sovereignty like they fight for subservient Westminster devolution at Holyrood.

    101. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Nail,

      Head,

      Hit.

      @birnie says at 9:27 pm

      “Re: Sainsbury/Asda merger.”

      Bet UKOK Monopolies and Mergers day it’s all OK though 😉

      Wonder if our Fishing Folk and Fairmers have figured it oot yet?

    102. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      day = say

    103. Cactus says:

      Chillin’ in ra Clutha, Glasgow, Scotland, Europe, Earth.

      Some excellent tourists enters the bar.

      He said… “they have a tree”.

      It is SO true.

      New leaves.

      X.

    104. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      day = say

    105. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Scottie Dog at 9.03 and Robert J. Sutherland at 10.17.

      It doesn’t matter what currency option we choose or how sensible it is it will be attacked by a huge lie because they can lie with impunity as they have the media. We would just have given them a convenient target to lie about.

      You are missing the point. It is perfectly sensible to discus options and by doing so to illustrate to our people that there are dozens of perfectly adequate currency positions in operation all around the world.

      Any suggestion that Scotland cannot do what Finland or New Zealand or Eire or Gambia can do on the currency issue is an insult and should be treated as exactly that.

      For myself I support a Scottish currency at the appropriate time when everything has stabilised because such gives us the most control over our economy.
      But it would be inviting furious, dishonest attack if we go into a referendum with that (or any other chosen position).

      Options are the tactic.

    106. louis.b.argyll says:

      Yes, Cubby RJS,
      There are dozens of smaller nations, who, after initial efforts, following their independence, maintain a currency that works ‘for them’ through pensions and in spending and borrowing powers.

      And with anti-carpet-bagging and monopolies legislation we can avoid predatory types.

    107. Colin Alexander says:

      “One of the lessons we learnt from 2014 is that it is very difficult to go into a campaign when one of your central policy points relies on consent from your opponents…”

      One???? 40% shared institutions with the UK under the SNP White Paper for so-called independence and much of the rest under EU control.

      Expecting the UK Govt and EU to just go along with what the SNP wanted. Nuts.

      So, the UK Govt just say No cooperation and the White Paper and Yes campaign is completely discredited. And the EU couldn’t give a fig about Scottish sovereignty, as long as they kept getting Scotland’s fish stocks via the UK Govt.

      It’s hard to accept your SNP heroes can F**k up big time. Four years later and many Wingers are still in denial, blaming it all on Unionist treachery.

      I accept there was some infamy from others, most notably Labour politicians, but lots of incompetence from the SNP Scot Govt with their wishlist White Paper and play it safe indy-lite policy.

    108. Cactus says:

      Hey Glasgow!

      Do you feel acquainted with our international world?

      It’s Sunday.

    109. Northern Rock says:

      Gary45% 11.29pm

      With answers like that then we can look forward to another defeat in IndyRef2.

    110. ScottieDog says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Of course they will attack ANY and EVERY option and I’m not missing the point. I supported a sovereign currency in 2014 because firstly because it actually means sovereignty – shared or used currency is not. I think we all want full sovereignty don’t we?
      Secondly, i rejected the idea of currency union because it wasn’t our gift and that leaves you open to annihilation.

      There IS only one option for a FULLY SOVEREIGN nation like NZ, Norway etc. That is a transition to a sovereign currency (which of course doesn’t happen overnight).

      If you are going to be attacked in any case, have the correct weaponary. Shrugging and not telling anyone is what is happening wrt Brexit and the U.K.

      It’s a simple statement, “following negotiation a transition away from sterling”. It doesn’t need detail and it doesn’t allow anyone to say we can’t do it. It is also the most natural order of things for any sovereign nation. One nation one currency. What you see in the Eurozone is NOT the natural order of things btw.

    111. geeo says:

      @ken500 11.24pm

      Emm…if we vote Yes, there will be ZERO Current unionist party politicians operating ANYWHERE and at ANY level, in Scotland.

      They will become Politicians from parties of ANOTHER COUNTRY.

      This is the reason they fear even HOLDING an indyref. Plain old self preservation.

      Are we to leave our MP’s at WM ?

      All 59 btw, will also be gone, not just 35 SNP MP’s.

      That would have the immediate effect of a 6 seat labour gain over the tories at WM post Yes vote.

      Funny thing about labour that, they think they gained 6 seats in Scotland, but they actually lost 6 seats in the bigger picture of the WM context.

      Ironically, if the SNP 56/59 of 2015 had been repeated in 2017, then labour could have had power, albeit in a rainbow coalition.

      Not the brightest.

    112. Cactus says:

      Chillin’ in Botega, Glasgow, iEurope, Earth…

      New leaves.

      Spring.

      Love.

      X.

    113. Thepnr says:

      @Cactus

      The moon is waxing gibeous, new full moon on Monday. Have a good enjoyable night in the Clutha but remember on the way home “Stay on the road. Keep clear of the moors.” 🙂

    114. Cactus says:

      1.

      Aye aye.

      Independence aye x.

    115. Cactus says:

      Big nod oot tae ye rapnr.

      SO SO soon.

      Ahm ah gettin’ a kiss?

      Keep it sexy Scotland.

      FUCK ra tories.

      V / V / MMXVIII.

      2018.

    116. Cactus says:

      Being part of a uk union is SO 20th century.

      We can do it.

      Yes Daisy.

      YOU!

      Welcome to Scotland.

    117. Cactus says:

      The United Kingdom thing means nothing to me.

      Robert Peffers knows.

      Fuck the UK.

      LOVE Sco.

      Glasgow.

      17.

      X.

    118. Liz g says:

      Cactus @ 1.17
      Robert P. Knows
      You know
      Ah know..
      And on Saturday the whole of Scotland will know.
      This wull be huge..
      See ye there my friend X

    119. Thepnr says:

      Amber Rudd the Home Secretary claiming ignorance as a defence in the Windrush scandal is just total bollocks,

      She took over from Theresa May and continued to carry out the policies that the Tory government and them personally agree with.

      Here she is from the Tory conference in 2016 telling the party faithful just how much she values the contribution of immigrants.

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/oct/04/amber-rudd-comes-down-on-immigration-and-foreign-workers-video

    120. Cactus says:

      Yes Glasgow.

      Yes Scotland.

      Yes Glasgow Liz g.

      Glasgow callin’.

      Fuck restriction.

      Love V / V / MMXVIII.

    121. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      Yes next Saturday is a very big day, 40,000 say the National today but of course they are guessing. I’m guessing too that it will be much more than that.

      So remember, get along if you can leaves Kelvingrove Park at 11:30 next Saturday 5th May. Finishes in Glasgow Green, will be a good day. I’m looking forward to it and hope the weather is kind. Get there if you can make it.

      It’s an opportunity to show that YES we’re still here :).

    122. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 28 April, 2018 at 7:25 pm:

      “Question = What currency will an Independent Scotland Use.
      Answer = The one you will using tae buying our oil wi pal!”

      There isn’t any problems with our currency as we already have our own currency and we always have had it.

      It’s called the Pound Sterling and we have our own, distinctive, currency notes. Furthermore no one can stop us using it as Sterling is an international trading currency so is traded on the open currency market just like any other commodity.

      We just carry on with using the pound and choose whether it is tied to the English pound or allow it to float as we choose.

      The United Kingdom is a two partner union and the Treaty of Union agrees that both Kingdoms own the pound sterling. It is as much the Kingdom of Scotland’s as it is the Kingdom of England’s but, and it is a very big but. In no way would England want to even dream of attempting to prevent the use of Sterling for the very good reason that immediately upon Scotland ending the union with England the revenues presently flowing into the Westminster treasury would flow into the treasury of Scotland. That is oil & gas revenues, the various duties on such as alcohol and road fuel that Westminster relies upon so heavily at present.

      Thus the English pound would start to fall and the pound Scottish start to rise but if the two are tied than the pound is common to both and that would stop the Scottish economy from overheating too much and the English pound from cooling too much.

      Immediately the Scottish pound is not tied to the English pound the Scots pound overheats and the English pound cools. This results in any items that are common exports in both kingdoms becoming more attractive to foreign countries to trade with England than in Scotland where the pound would be higher value. Good for England and bad for Scotland.

      So a tied currency would not be altogether a bad thing. There are other ways to prevent a currency overheating too much and the Norwegians have been using them for quite a while.

      The Main one being to spend very big on infrastructure projects that not only keep the value of the currency from overheating but there are great benefits from the infrastructure improvements you get and employment for the people with benefits also to the construction industries.

      I’ve read here of many Wingers who were deeply impressed by the standards of living in Norway and much of that is due to the lavish spending of their Government money on infrastructure projects, These have the extra benefits of providing extra employment. Then there are the provision of Health Care, better pensions and other such state benefits that all help to keep a strong currency from overheating while providing employment and social care benefits.

      Setting up such things takes time, though, and that is why it would be in Scotland’s best interests to initially use the Scottish Pound Sterling tied to the England Pound Sterling.

      Just until we had the independent Scots government set up for similar lavish public infrastructure, better pensions and social & health services as has Norway.

      It would be foolish to rush into a totally new and independent currency. Besides which it costs a lot of cash and effort to set up a totally new and independent currency and a newly independent Scottish Government would have its hand full with many other things for a while.

      There is absolutely no need to go ape-shit over currency when we already have a reasonable one already and being independent with the many more things than oil & gas revenues that England gets the benefits of just now but will not after independence would ensure we had a damned sight more control over a shared pound sterling than we have as a London dominion.

      We, not the English, would control the value of the shared pound. If by no other method than by controlling the levels of the many Scottish high value exports now enjoyed by Westminster. Bear in mind this very obvious fact.

      Not one penny of the present revenues from Oil, Gas, Whisky, Gin and other booze, VAT returns, Road Fuel Duty, Betting Tax, graduated National Grid Connection Charges, Scottish Farmed Salmon and much. much, more all goes presently directly into the Westminster coffers.

      There really isn’t a Scottish Customs & Excise department so all such duty and indirect tax, like VAT, goes directly to Westminster’s Treasury.

      We only get back what they decide to allow us to have. So just imagine how we are going to deal with it immediately flowing into Holyrood’s coffers instead of Westminster’s. Not forgetting how Westminster will have to cope without it. You had better believe that most Scots do not realise just how wealthy our country really is and the other side of that coin is that Englanders actually are even less aware of how poor the Kingdom of England is going to be when the Scottish natural recourse tide turns and the riches tide flow north to the Scottish treasury.

    123. Cactus says:

      Hey Rev Stu…

      Ahm heading for ra casino.

      Gimme sum numeros?

      Ahm favoring 14 / 17 honda roulette.

      If they let me in…

      Stay T’d.

    124. Cactus says:

      Two, seventeen.

      Shoe know.

      Xx.

    125. Cactus says:

      Cheque this out Wingers…

      First time in cashino and they aint asked me to take my hat off.

      You can leave your hat on.

      Progress.

    126. Cactus says:

      Okay, so ahm gamblin’ away and they say like…

      Can U take ur hat off indoors like…

      Protocol is pish.

      Fuck you, NO.

      Backnabit.

      Winning.

      X.

    127. Cactus says:

      Ah really hate gettin’ shit just fur wearing ma hat.

      It fucking sucks.

      Nicola…

      Help!

    128. Cactus says:

      Hey Nicola, ahm almost HOME.

      Can ye do sumthing aboot hat law please.

      See Scotland in Europe, Alyn.

      Mwah baby.

    129. Cactus says:

      Ra moon is waxing.

      Time and day

      100% soon.

    130. Cactus says:

      Hey Scotlands Nicola ~

      Talkin aboot it.

      Ahm HOME.

      Nighty.

      Half a decade away…

      Seen it, done it.

    131. Cactus says:

      Goodnight Bonnie Scotland.

      And good morning..

      Aye.

    132. Neil Anderson says:

      Haw you Rev Stu.
      Lay aff yer associate.
      You canny afford tae lose that talent. It’s no as if you pay him enough.
      I’d be in the huff & oot the door.
      & naw, he didnae pay me to say that.

    133. Morgatron says:

      EBC Scottishland at it again on their online news page. Misleading banner headline about minimum pricing of supermarket own brand spirits, but you dont know it own brand until the story is opened up. Shower of bastards.

    134. Ken500 says:

      The Tories could not make a bigger mess. Absolutely appalling. It is just unbelievable.

      Looks like they are on a hiding to nothing in the council elections in the south. What a bunch of ignorant, arrogant incompetent people. Imagine the Windrush second generation in the Tory Party. The cabinet ministers? They could have been chucked out as well. What a shower. Looks like the Tories are mucked up.

      If Corbyn cared he would step aside, To win in the rest of the UK. People in Scotland can vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.

      The Tories are predicted to lose over 200 council seats. May will go.

      The SNP Scottish Gov should not give an inch on Devolution but demand more powers that were promised.

      What a complete and utter mess the Tories have made. The economy tanking. No growth. Jobs starting to go. They have ruined the Oil sector. Losing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs. The fishing industry has been ruined for years. Re organisation, with better terms and conditions should have been done years ago. Instead of throwing back dead fish for years they should have been using bigger nets. Things had started to improve under SNP representation. Richard Lochhead had negotiated bigger nets for increased quotas. EU grants were improving the industry and building bigger fish market facilities. Imagine voting Tory. Or not voting letting the Tories in. Gove and Johnston are complete imbeciles.

      A central bank is being established in Scotland. Sterling might have to be used for a while. It will take a while to negotiate and dissolve the Union. Until then Scotland is in safe hands. The SNP standing up for Scotland. Imagine the state of Scotland with the unionists parties capitulating. Or Corbyn at the UK helm, as bad as the Tories. The lying LibDems in coalition with the Tories caused the mess. Sychopaths.. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion has cost Scotland £Billions. Westminster unionists use the Official Secrets Act to cover up their criminality. Iraq, Dunblane, Lockerbie keep secret for 100 years.

    135. Robert Louis says:

      Thepnr at 0153am,

      Aye. Let’s try to make the march for independence in Glasgow on Saturday 5th May the biggest ever. It departs at 1130 am from Kelvingrove and heads to Glasgow green via the city centre. Everybody needs to go, and we mustn’t assume that ‘others’ will be going so we don’t need to.

      This will be a very important day in Scotland’s history. The fight is coming.

      This is a good opportunity to make a BIG statement, to tell compulsive liars like the BBC, Theresa May and Amber Rudd that Scotland wants NONE of their lying, racist Tory brexit sh*te.. Let’s fill Glasgow. If you can’t make the march follow along through the town, or get to Glasgow green as the march arrives, as no doubt there will be stalls and stuff all afternoon. It will be a great day.

      Take everybody you know, including your granny.

    136. Robert Louis says:

      ken500,

      Quote “If Corbyn cared he would step aside”.

      EXACTLY. That man is the only reason we still have these lying Tories in charge and the entire uk getting dragged down the brexit plughole. Of course he is in his 70’s so what does he care about what the consequences will be of brexit. Indeed the same could be said for all those pushing brexit, both Labour and Tory, they are all very old. They seem to have zero understanding of just how much they are screwing up the future of our young people.

      All the benefits they had in England when THEY were younger, feee education, good social care, a caring government etc.. all those things seem not to matter to Mr. Corbyn, all he cares about is pushing the Tory hard brexit ideology just as hard as the Tories, to further his marxist delusions.

      Corbyn will NEVER be Prime Minister. Those who think he will are living in a delusional bubble of group think. Despite everything the Tories have done, Labour are still behind the Tories in the polls. Time for Labour to sniff the coffee and wake up.

      Corbyn, if he really cared, would step down.

    137. Robert Louis says:

      Thepnr at 0144 am,

      Totally agree. People seem to have forgotten the utterly vile speeches Rudd has made to party conferences. I watched one of her speeches, and it literally sent chills down my spine. It was like we were listening to the Nazi party. The venom she has spouted, in the past (to rapturous applause from her party leaders, yet now she is trying to make out that those same evil policies of which she bragged, were just ‘accidents’ or badly executed’ policy.

      She knew what she was doing, she actively pushed these racist policies, she is culpable. She needs to either resign or be sacked. She is quite frankly a disgrace, and it beggars belief she is still in post.

    138. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I am actually a bt sorry for Amber Rudd.

      Of course, she is a Tory, but, the real villain of the piece in the Windrush scandal is her boss, Mothr Theresa. She was the worst Home Secretary in living memory, she caused most of the department’s problems now Rudd is playing a blinder, unconsciously perhaps, in soaking up the flak which ought to go to her boss.

      May is only in Number Ten because, she isn’t Boris and the whole shooting match is such a mess, no intelligent Tory, and there have to be some, believe it or not, will take her on for the top job because the mess they have made will not be easily cleaned-up.

      I think these intelligent Tories are waiting for the whole edifice to collapse, Labour to get it and prove, if anything even more incompetent, then, they can step in and begin the slow clear-up.

      None of this will help Scotland, but, at least, sooner, rather than later, we will be Independent, and England sorting itself out without our riches, will be none of our business.

      We have less than a year to get out, or we are doomed, along with England.

    139. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 28 April, 2018 at 11:33 pm:

      If only the SNP fought for indy and Scottish sovereignty like they fight for subservient Westminster devolution at Holyrood.

      With friends like you, CA, the indy movement needs no enemies.

    140. Ken500 says:

      Sky on another lying mission in Scotland. The masonic, misogynists and bigots. Not typical. The Tories will be gone next time. Support for Independence holding. Get rid of Sky subscription. Going on about the cold etc. Lovely sunny weather here Better than the rest of the UK.

      The naming of the child another insult to Ireland. The Tory Royals interfering in matters of State. Not impartial. £32Million for a wedding. What a disgrace. They cause mental, health problems. People being illegally sanctioned and starved. Quite unnecessary and increasing costs.

    141. Ken500 says:

      SKy even has the lying barrister on reviewing the papers. A right wing biased mistake. Being sold off. Murdoch must have been up to something. More criminal activities to add to the list. Illegal hacking and bribing public officials.

    142. ronnie anderson says:

      Chist thinking aboot that Cairnsprune sitting on his dessert island playing his only disk , that famous Elvis song aw Shriveled Up .

      U must be payin him to much Rev lol.

    143. Macandroid says:

      Some advice please.

      If the permanence of the Scottish parliament depends on a clause in the Scotland Act, what is to stop the Westminster parliament amending the Act to remove the protection and then dissolve our parliament?

      Whether the Tories could scrape up a majority is another question. How would Ruth’s loyal Scottish Tories vote? To keep their jobs or to lose them?

    144. ScottieDog says:

      @Robert Peffers

      “It’s called the Pound Sterling and we have our own, distinctive, currency notes. Furthermore no one can stop us using it as Sterling is an international trading currency so is traded on the open currency market just like any other commodity.“

      Actually Robert, the creation of a Scottish tenner requires the process of seniorage – the creation of a liability by the Bank of England. In other words, all Scottish notes are backed by the Bank of England. If you draw Scottish notes from your bank account and there are insufficient at the bank, said commercial bank has to buy the notes at face value from BOE. The profit from that exchange (difference between cost of printing – a few pence, and the face value – £10, goes to the U.K. treasury).

      Sure keep, the notes already in existence, but any increase in their supply would have to be backed by a central bank. Remember bank notes make up just 3% of the money supply. Most money is bank deposits (bank created money), so any new £ being created are either by the Bank of England (notes) or electronically created by commercial banks when they grant loans – loans create deposits – not the other way around (banks don’t ‘lend’ anything). U.K. Commercial banks are regulated in London and their deposits backed by the financial services compensation scheme (ultimately U.K. government)

      Sure use the £ (or any international currency) but mindful we have no power to expand the supply of it. We can certainly earn it through exports and taxation but the supply of £ can only be increased by the BOE and the U.K. treasury, and of course as private debt by U.K. commercial banks.

      As I said above we will need to transition away from the £ to gain FULL sovereignty but yes we can call it Scottish sterling or whatever we like. I would prefer something different to avoid confusion to the good folk who visit here.

      Interesting wee ditty, when the EU was battering Greece back in 2010 (of course they still are), the guys who founded the Bristol pound were finding it hard to get anywhere that would print their new currency. Apparently the printing companys were gearing up for the creation of new drachma. Of course Greece already had a central bank and moth-balled payments system.

    145. Smallaxe says:

      Pablo Miller: The Mystery Man Who ‘Recruited’ Putin’s Poisoned Spy;
      https://www.thedailybeast.com/pablo-miller-the-mystery-man-who-recruited-putins-poisoned-spy

      Brexit breaking point: The Tory civil war and the Irish border;
      https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0427/958793-brexit-breaking-point/

      Secret Home Office document leak categorically proves that Amber Rudd KNOWINGLY LIED about immigration targets;
      https://evolvepolitics.com/secret-home-office-document-leak-categorically-proves-that-amber-rudd-knowingly-lied-about-immigration-targets/

    146. Smallaxe says:

      How to choose;
      https://peterabell.blog/2018/04/28/how-to-choose/

      A simmering cauldron’
      http://newsnet.scot/archive/a-simmering-cauldron/

      (Thread) On 25th April at a Perth and Kinross Council meeting, a motion was proposed by the Tories to remove Cllr McDade (Independent) from the Lifelong Learning committee and the IJB, to be replaced by new Tory Cllr Duff. Cllr Barnacle (Ind) moved an amendment to defer removal;
      https://twitter.com/lumi_1984/status/989922340812328960

    147. Smallaxe says:

      The Conservative Party Is Still Ignoring Its Islamophobia Problem;
      https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/7xdyqb/the-conservative-party-needs-to-deal-with-its-islamophobia-problem

      Between the backstop and a hard place;
      https://www.ippr.org/blog/the-customs-union-row

      Just when you think things can’t get worse for Amber Rudd, the UN drops a bombshell on the Home Office;
      https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/04/28/just-when-you-thought-things-couldnt-worse-for-amber-rudd-the-un-drops-a-bombshell-on-the-home-office/

    148. Smallaxe says:

      #bbcqt gave Johnathan Jennings a reserved seat (he was in place before the audience was let in) and a guaranteed question with Racist undertones;
      https://twitter.com/Far_Right_Watch/status/989975946248761345

      Homelessness crisis: Number staying in B&Bs 1,000% higher than stats released by govt, report says;
      https://www.rt.com/uk/425319-homeless-tory-crisis-rough/

      Revealed: Despite Theresa May’s apologies, Home Office charter secret removal flight to Jamaica with these grandmothers;
      https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/revealed-despite-theresa-mays-apologies-home-office-charter-secret-removal-flight-to-jamaica-with-these-grandmothers/28/04/

    149. Smallaxe says:

      Labour MP John Woodcock facing sex pest probe over claims he harassed a female aide;
      http://archive.is/dYXqv

      Israel, UK engaged in secret arms deals: Report;
      http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/04/24/559564/Israel-UK-engaged-in-secret-arms-deals-Report

      German bill seeks to prevent weapons exports to Saudi Arabia, UAE over Yemen conflict;
      http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/04/28/559959/Germany-to-block-weapons-shipments-to-Saudi-Arabia-UAE-over-Yemen-conflict

    150. Smallaxe says:

      Part 1 & part

      https://theintercept.com/2018/02/16/trump-russia-election-hacking-investigation/

      A federal judge just handed Mueller a major win in Trump-Russia investigation;
      http://archive.is/0u04I

    151. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Peffers

      Devolution has nothing to do with independence. The whole basis for devolution was to try and prevent independence and prevent undue influence from indy supporting types.

      The current Scottish Parliament is a WM construct. A WM branch office.

      It was a rigged system from the start to make Holyrood a weak, pretend parliament, with an electoral system that would seemingly guarantee that indy supporters could never win votes or get any power, dressed up as the real Scottish Parliament.

      It didn’t turn out that way exactly. Now, with Brexit, the Scottish Parliament should some get REAL power; so WM says the game is a bogey. WM is taking direct control until it gets a Tory / Lab / LibDem majority who will just agree with party bosses in London.

      Devolution was a con from the start. Like allowing a prisoner to furnish his cell so he can pretend he’s got freedom.

      The SNP thought they were in the Premiership. In reality they were always like Rangers in League Two with a big stadium, lots of support, but playing the diddy games.

      A game WM allowed the SNP to play to no real effect – a game the SNP wanted to keep going as long as possible. But, noo WM want their ba’ back.

      And unless a miracle happens and the Supreme Court reject the UK Govt’s legal action, there’s hee-haw the “Scottish Govt” and “Scottish Parliament” can do about it – as they are not Scotland’s, they are Westminster’s and always have been from day one.

    152. yesindyref2 says:

      “Holyrood a weak, pretend parliament”

      DING! DING!

      WEE PRETENDY PARLIAMENT CARD

      Sorry FC for borrowing your great style.

    153. Alex Montrose says:

      Bend over Scotland and prepare for a good fracking.

    154. Cubby says:

      Colin Alexander = boring boring boring British Nationalist Troll.

    155. Cubby says:

      Colin Alexander = boring boring boring British Nationalist Paid to Troll



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