Getting nowhere slow
On the 8th anniversary of the indyref, and 16 months after closing down (although in fact we’ve averaged one post a week since then), Wings Over Scotland is once again getting more traffic than the next five biggest indy sites put together.
This isn’t a good thing.
It just puts numbers to something that’s been obvious for a long time, and is also demonstrated by the feeble turnouts at AUOB marches – the steady disengagement of the Yes movement under a deliberate and relentless attack on its grassroots from Nicola Sturgeon’s SNP.
As I write this at 2.34am (hey, I keep weird hours), The National hasn’t even bothered to tweet Sunday’s front page, despite it being the indyref anniversary. The SNP’s own Twitter account has nothing to say to mark the date either (indeed, as far as we can tell it hasn’t tweeted since the death of the Queen – any excuse to down tools).
[EDIT Sunday 10.55am: The National doesn’t appear to have a single story mentioning the indyref anniversary on the website today. The Sunday Times also hasn’t bothered with its usual 18 September opinion poll, presumably on the grounds that we all know it’d say pretty much the same as the last 50 have. In fact, the Scottish press in general doesn’t seem to have noted the date in any way. Not a single retrospective or analysis is to be found anywhere, and you’d think by now they’d be absolutely desperate for some non-Queen content.]
The fact is there IS no movement any more. In a couple of weeks the Supreme Court will slap down any suggestion of a 2023 indyref and Sturgeon will shrug and say “Oh well everyone, see you in two years maybe I guess”, and there’ll hardly be a murmur of protest because nobody genuinely expected anything different.
Remember all the forced hoo-ha when she finally announced her grand masterplan at the end of June? It lasted all of a couple of days then fizzled to nothing again, like all her previous “relaunches”, and all we’ve seen since then are a couple of pathetic thin papers bereft of any meaningful content that everyone forgot about 24 hours later.
Does it feel like we’re two months into a serious campaign? Of course not. Even the National has pretty much given up on the pretence. I considered writing a much longer analysis than this, but what would have been the point? Everyone knows the truth in their hearts already, even if many still aren’t ready to admit it in public (in the name of non-existent morale), or perhaps even to themselves.
Until she goes, it’s all over.
If site visits were related to pound notes, PK could write a blog post about the stroke he had when realising how much bigger his hoose could’ve been.
We thought we were going to the promised land, but she took us right back to Manor Farm.
Shut your eyes and imagine her singing the new anthem. No, not “Beasts of England”, the other one: “God Save the King…”
That’s it.
Welcome to hell.
The hatred I feel towards Sturgeon has long surpassed that of Thatcher,,,and I never thought the hatred I had for Thatcher could ever be beaten.
I don’t know HOW Sturgeon done it,,, but she has,,,she has run the once vibrant YES Movement into the ground.
I was going to attend the cancelled Yestival Rally on Sunday,,,and to be truthful, it was more a show of defiance against Sturgeon and her absolute shower of useless bastards she has as MPs and MSPs.
I would like to know who is still backing Sturgeon,,, because I don’t know anyone who actually supports her route to Indy.
We can only hope they find the strength from within their own SNP Party to finally show her and Peter Murrell the door.
Yes, Stuart. It is pretty clear.
The leader of the SNP is no lover of any independence movement or any movement on independence.
The cheek… To go to the supreme Court with a tangled mess, to ask to be slapped down… not even to have a bill or to be able to speak… with a new Lord Advocate who is not even confident in the Scottish Powers in the first place… She is clearly having a laugh.
Everything is intentionally moribund.
And for as long as she can, this FM is going nowhere.
Rab Davis – Excellent and I agree with every word.
It’s been obvious to anyone who engages the old grey matter , that La Sturgeon has no interest and no intention in delivery a referendum . All is smoke and mirrors to get to 2024 when she can roll out the “ mandate for change “ guff once more . I have resigned myself to at least another decade before there is a meaningful movement again . By that time we won’t have Holyrood so our real chance will have gone .
And me I’m up here waiting
For the miracle, for the miracle to come
It’s been obvious to me since 14’ the powers that be will never allow us to get that close again. NS is compromised and is not working for Scottish independence if she ever was.
Only choice is to go back to basics and start again, Alba seems to be the best hope for now, but it’s going to be a long treck.
What’ll happen first? Sturgeon going or Scotland stopping being a police state?
Exactly “Until she goes it’s all over”
We’re all in a sad sort of extended hibernation, we aren’t dead and we’re far from extinct (and never will be).
It’s over for the UK; we know it, more importantly they know it, but life goes on, we’re just getting our ducks in a row waiting to pounce. Death of the Q just speeds the process.
We can only hope they find the strength from within their own SNP Party to finally show her and Peter Murrell the door
They can’t. Those who remain are mostly the ones who sat and watched, or actively bullied and hounded out real pro Indy people who were trying to warn them. Those people tried – and to an extent succeeded – in changing the NEC and kicking out some real horrors. The leadership simply turned on them and ended party democracy. There are still good people who remain in the party but there’s no way for them to change and get it back now. It’s too far gone, far too many plants in senior positions, no democracy. The leadership can just keep on taking the piss endlessly now until both independence and the party die off. And those responsible won’t care at all, they’ll move on to lucrative posts, well rewarded for saving the union at the precise point independence looked inevitable.
So many in the party have spent the years since Brexit mindlessly chanting unionist slogans like ‘Now is not the time’ (the five years of Brexit and just after?!), ‘Salmond is yesterday’s man’ (FFS in 2017 he was in the best form of his life, freed from government but with vast experience of Westminster, Holyrood, U.K. civil service and huge international clout. He & Joanna Cherry we’re both critical; it’s why they were both targeted). ‘Wings bad – don’t read any pro Indy blogs’, ‘absolutely don’t vote for a pro Indy supermajority; that wouldn’t be fair to unionists’ etc. Anyone still doing that is either a plant themselves or a congenital idiot at this point. Or maybe admitting you’ve been a useful idiot is just too hard for many?
Rab Davis – you took the words right out of my mouth.
Last week Sturgeon was praised in an editorial in the Daily Heil. The week before she was praised by senior, Scottish MI5 asset, Kezia Dugdale in her weekly column in the Courier. All but the wilfully blind can see.
Even if Sturgeon somehow “goes” before the next election (…and how’s that going to happen…..political defenestration by suddenly enraged SNP rank and file members…? cushy UN/NGO sinecure when she realises the game is up?) would it really be the answer? The SNP without Sturgeon will still be stuffed full of grey suited Growth Commission managerialists, TRA extremists and the same leadership team. The “new” SNP will in fact look very much like the current SNP.
Meanwhile everyone fixating about Sturgeon and bewailing the lack of progress and moribund nature of the independence movement as a whole are doing what?
Sitting back and waiting for the next election and assuring us things will get better as long as Sturgeon is gone. Sturgeon is an easy figure to hate, but when the scapegoat is gone the SNP isn’t going to re-emerge as anything significantly different. All those bumping their gums about the upcoming crisis causing an upsurge in anger or a political sea change are deluding themselves. There’s no huge rush of people joining alternatives to the SNP, or reconstructing the Yes campaign, or staging La Diada style protests.
They’re all going to sit on their hands and wait for the next election when they can give the SNP a bloody nose. If they haven’t helped set up an alternative to the SNP we could actually go backwards at the next election not forwards.
Depressing reading for a grey, dismal sunday morning. But true enough, there is no movement on the part of snp or its supporters. But, Stu, you have never commented or posted anything about Salvo – is this because you see it as a waste of time and energy?
For me and others I know, it gives us some hope to cling to, and while I havent made much effort to attend any AUOB or other Indy events by the Yes Movement, I have booked to attend a Salvo event, and with my particular circumstances that is not an easy thing to do.
I cant help wondering what your opinion is on that,and why, given that your predictions do seem to be fulfilled and you obviously have excellent political insight. It may well be that we are clutching at straws,but I would rather see your opinion and that of others (not that of the trolls which have infested here to hold their constant inane playground pishing contests) and to weigh things up than continue with blind faith.
Congratulations Rev as when in partial retirement you still lead the cause above and beyond all other sites combined and indeed the largest political party in Scotland.
It’s a bit like the Olympic100m being won by a guy in bare feet with his Granny on his back.
In light of this recognition we need to try and stop some of the bickering and personal attacks.
Pro Indy facts uncovered and shared along with reasoned debate from alternative views would give you wings.
Everyone supported the cause of Independence before 2014, but now if you aren’t supporting Nicola Sturgeon you’ll be sorry, there is no Indy its only Nicola.
I got a free subscription to the Rag for a year, after two month I cancelled my subscription for there treatment of Alex Salmond who had just been acquitted, I told the Rag I wanted to cancel my subscription and I’ve never been back on there site since, personally I have no idea why anyone would want to buy it.
I posted these on Yours for Scotland it sums up Sturgeon completely,
Nicola Sturgeon wanted to be leader of the SNP, not to further the cause of Independence but to make herself filthy rich and famous. Is Sturgeon a liar? Yes, she is. She took over the SNP at its peak, with more members and the biggest support for Independence we have had in any of our lifetimes, but what has she done with it? She has put her own greed before Scotland need to be Independent. Even now she trying to convince us all that being British isn’t as bad as some of us might make out she even supporting the idea of devo-max before anything else. She has deliberately taken us to the British supreme court knowing that we’ll lose. She has set on a barrister in the position of lord advocate, knowing she was a Unionist and this suited Sturgeon plan. All this has been done deliberately to, stop us being Independent, to prevent us going back into the EU and to secure her rule as FM. Jesus if you’re listening, Judas hasn’t done anything as bad as what Sturgeon has done and is doing to Scotland before we chuck her out of power and the SNP out of office. The Supreme court ruling will have every one of us sick to the core in our movement. The Rag and the Sturgeonites will defend it as something the Unionist have done, because they’ll hear no evil, see no evil, nor speak no evil about the head of Union is Scotland and don’t think for a minute its Union Jack, it’s not.
How many times have we heard of a female councillor resigning due to bulling? How many times are we going to sacrifice talented and needed people, at the altar of Sturgeon ego and dictatorship.
Posted later,
Nicola Sturgeon’s climate change trip to New York is called off. She loyal to the core. The planet isn’t any different to the Scotland, she’ll put them both on hold to dance to the British state’s tune. It only shows where her priorities lie, her red and white and blue is showing through all the time.
Then my reply,
If Sturgeon wanted to attend the funeral that would have been fine, then deputy First Minister of Scotland John Swinney could have gone to New York in her place, or vice versa. Patrick Harvie would have been ideal to attend the event in New York. As we’ve got to know Sturgeon better, it’s clear that she isn’t interested in anyone taking her lime light. You’d think the only light in Scotland is Sturgeon, and in her eyes it is. She took down our national flag so she could attend Cop26, but even then, they refused to allow her to attend actual event. Now she has the opportunity to put Scotland on the world stage, she’d rather answer the call made by little England. God know why she’s called the First Minister of Scotland, because in her 8 years tenure she has never put Scotland first, second or third, but she has used Scotland and its people to her own ends, because all she cares about is herself, her own glorification and me, me, me first and last. Anything the yes movement or individuals have done to progress Scotland she has systematically destroyed. It’s time for Scotland to stop being a poodle and become a lion.
Never ever think for a minute that our FM has any interest other than her own self-interest.
Sturgeon wanted to attended Cop26 to up her profile, not Scotland’s. She’s managed to get the UN to allow her to attended next week and what does she do, she does what she’s always done, looks at what best suites Nicola Sturgeon and goes with that. She no more has interest in the planet than she has interest in Indy for Scotland. But she’ll perpetuate the myth of both green credentials and Independence while ever we keep voting for her.
Over the years I’ve come to know Nicola Sturgeon credentials and to be honest who’d want to be Independent with her in charge, she’s, venomous, vindictive, nasty, hateful, a lair, greedy, poor at her job, selfish. I haven’t seen anything in her personality that make me thinks she a good person or leader. She has done nothing for Scotland and its people not one Single thing and neither has the Rag who supports her. I’ve said this for a long time now, when she finished, you’d wished you never heard of her.
The SNP has had AUOB marches rerouted to the outskirts of cities and towns, the whole idea was to drum up support from within.
I know people are loyal to Scotland and want to buy The Rag for its news or whatever, but trust me you aren’t benefiting Scotland at all.
As always, excellent and accurate analysis.
There is no chance of the SNP, as currently constituted, leading us (or wanting to lead us) to Independence.
How many of the 64 SNP MSP’s at Holyrood and 44 SNP MP’s at Westminster would put independence ahead of their careers?
It’s a well paid game for them.
The ba’s burst and for the time being the game’s over.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt so betrayed in my life. You expect the lies and cheating from Westminster but I never thought for a minute it would come from within our own, our own party of independence, the SNP. This is now the NSP Nicola Sturgeon Party and boy she is eating cake, the ("Tractor" - Ed) is stuffing her face with the greed akin to Westminster and the crumbs is all that is left of what was a beautiful independence movement. Heartbroken does not cover it, devastated is more like it.
“Everyone knows the truth in their hearts already, even if many still won’t admit it in public, or perhaps even to themselves.”
You’re right, of course, Stuart, the Yes movement has been corraled and rendered impotent. This, it is essential to acknowledged, could never have happened without the agency of the so-called party of national independence and its colonial-minded leadership. Destroying any independence movements is an obvious and needful feature of any such a party’s administrative remit, is it not?.
So, how many good reasons do we need for not getting behind Salvo and the SSRG and admitting the blatantly obvious truth (out loud!)? Scotland has been colonised and our understanding and tactical response must, therefore, change accordingly, not to mention quickly. Check-out the Salvo Declaration of Edinburgh—2022.
‘Anyone still doing that is either a plant themselves or a congenital idiot at this point. Or maybe admitting you’ve been a useful idiot is just too hard for many?’
Well put Cath.
The sturgeon & her snp will & are being very well rewarded for the treachery. I’m off out to cycle in the sun.
A new post from Rev Stu, 19 comments so far, and already we have one bemoaning the appearance of trolls BTL, and one banging on about Churchill.
Jeezo.
There is one post that analyses where the Indy movement is in non-hysterical language, that provides a real-world summary of the problems, and that outlines a potential route forwards in language normal Scots can identify with.
That, of course, is the one from Andy Ellis, probably the most hated regular poster on here.
Jeezo, squared.
The Rev. writes the truth.
90% of SNP Mps and MSPs have no interest in changeing Scotland’s
present situation. They are on a cushy number and know that if they step out of line the Great Leader’s minions will hound them relentlessly, Why risk it?
The union bating individuals are more confident now at challenging in social settings as YES Movement weakens.
TBH I think it could be 20 years till Scotland is independent. It wi tke that time for Alba and ISP to break through and gain enough seats in Holyrood. If we still have a Holyrood.
If they haven’t helped set up an alternative to the SNP we could actually go backwards at the next election not forwards.
Going backwards at the next two elections seems all but certain to me. There’s no way Alba will be in a position to win seats by 2024 (or earlier if a snap one). The best they can do is split the vote and take out some SNP MPs which, in itself is a necessity for the Yes movement in the case of certain individual ones. But it obviously won’t help the cause of independence.
In 2021 we had the chance of a supermajority, but that was because the SNP were guaranteed to sweep the constituencies and the Yes movement, even those who already saw it, were still willing to give them a first vote to try and hit that aim. It would have been the perfect time, right after Brexit, to have that totally pro indy parliament. By 2026, if there is still no movement on independence, the chances of that happening are slim to zero. Many more will have seen through the SNP. Many ambivalent voters who’ve been voting for them will be sick of them and possibly heading back to Labour or whoever.
The only chance we have now of not going backwards and independence being closer than decades away is if groups like SALVO and SSRG really can drive things forward and create a people’s movement. One that asserts our rights internationally and gains so much momentum it forces the SNP’s hand and makes some of their moribund seat warmers shift their ample, over-fed arses. And even then, it’s not an easy route: all of those were blocked off very deliberately by the SNP.
Rab Davis @4:12
“I would like to know who is still backing Sturgeon”
Anyone who supports the status quo is backing Sturgeon – they’re otherwise known as Unionists.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Brexit evolved into an opportunity for Sturgeon. Not an opportunity to push for IndyRef2, as the rest of Yes saw it, but an opportunity to ‘scare the horses’ within the upper echelons of the SNP and have them stampede away from IndyRef2.
With the UK outside the EU, the prospect of a hard border with England following Scexit was considered by Sturgeon and her generals as sounding the death knell for independence – why do you think she campaigned so hard for the whole UK to Remain and, post the result, the softest possible Brexit?
I suspect Sturgeon only ever saw an Indy Scotland as being viable in the context of both Scotland and England being inside the EU, with a porous border in respect of people, goods, services etc. That no longer being possible, she now focuses upon governing within the context of the devolution settlement whilst dangling the carrot of Indy to avoid haemorrhaging votes, members and funds.
Sturgeon no doubt prays that the UKSC circus will provide an opportunity to formally kill off IndyRef2 whilst being able to blame a third part for its demise. Any plan to turn a UK GE into a defacto referendum is doomed to fail for a multitude of reasons, most of which concerning unionist parties and splits within Yes driven by the SNP, which are well covered elsewhere.
Sadly, I’m firmly in Rev Stu’s camp in that the prospect of an Indy Scotland any time soon is, to put it mildly, remote. On a personal note, if Scotland can’t/won’t leave the UK, then it’s time to leave Scotland.
As an old Independence supporter, I am very sorry to have to agree with all the comments about NS and the SNP. They have no resemblence to the party I joined in the mid-’60s. I have accepted that I won’t see Independence in my lifetime, but hope my grandchildren will – so I will keep fighting as much as I can.
Can I recommend a look at Yours for Scotland for the very good article posted by Peter Young.
For anyone who isn’t aware of SALVO/SSRG, btw, this is worth a read. It’s a slim hope, and not one that, imo, offers any quick fix or route. But it’s the best we have, and if it doesn’t bring independence quickly, at least it provides a means to by-pass, hence terrify all those in power Lording it over us, the new SNP included.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
Maybe it was the wee small hours solitude and quiet Stu , but the elegiac tone of the above is entirely appropriate . Such is the inert state of our aspiration , I didn’t even register the 8th anniversary of IR1 had come and gone – with not even a whisper of recognition from the alleged keepers of the flame , until you mentioned it .
The Independence Movement has been contorted into Nu SNP’s Bowel Movement . Constipated for 8 years , consequently , turned sickly green and jaundiced yellow from the build-up of toxins in it’s blood stream . The only remedy a sulphuric purgative enema ..ie a commitment never to vote for the SNP – under any circumstances , siren pledge or plea , until Sturgeon is removed from her malignant throne .
She’s without question the prime source of the disease , but her lackeys in the Party – the ” Stay Quiet And Think Of The Salary ” alleged ” decent people in the SNP ” – shitebags the lot of them + the Wee Ginger Poodles and Bellend Caledonians who’ve been content to observe the No Criticism Allowed omerta as Sturgeon has trashed the Movement , stealing it’s energy only to further her personal ambitions and insane agender ( sic ) – are all equally to blame for the exhausted , atomised state/State we’ve arrived at .
If it helps improve the mood it is worth pointing out that several thousand people every day enjoy articles from Yours for Scotland by direct email not getting them from viewing the blog.
@ Rab Davis at 4:12 am
and
Astonished at 7:11 am
Agreed,
I genuinely try not to hate,but Sturgeon past Thatcher a long while ago,about the time I started to think Major was reasonable
I ask myself what is she covering up? The answer is “Probably every bad thing you can imagine,every bad practice.Just how deep is it?”
Deeper than that!!!
Karma awaits,
Her Dorian Gray portrait will appear ,and reveal her true ugliness plus that of the others associated with her
Postcolonial theory confirms Rev Stu’s astute thesis, in that:
“inside the nationalist parties, the will to break colonialism is linked with another quite different will: that of coming to a friendly agreement with it” (Frantz Fanon).
The people are still to understand what is happening because they do not as yet appreciate what self-determination independence means – it is (always) about decolonisation and liberation from oppression (cultural, economic, political etc.).
link to cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com
“Until she goes, it’s all over”
I’m not even sure you need “Until she goes”
Even if she did go, who would replace her?
Swinney, even without the tashe, is still Swinney.
🙁
All very true and all very sad.
Indy will never die, but it is mortally wounded and held captive in chains made by our own so called leadership.
This was always the way in Scotland where those who led used everybody for their own benefit.
Ian Brotherhood @10:38
“Swinney, even without the tashe, is still Swinney.”
I’m still of the opinion that Robertson is the shoe-in, and we’re all well versed as to why that brand is particularly toxic.
Either way, very much a case of Meet the new boss, same as the old boss – they (the party faithful) will all get fooled again… (Apologies to Mr Daltry).
The SNP, thanks to Sturgeon, is dead to me, and I fear that her contagion may have spread to Indy itself.
Who ever replaces Sturgeon, it COULDN’T be a solicitor or barrister who’s only goint to adear to the law, we now need someone to defy what the southerners say and start making our own choices.
Blimey, I just went and looked at WGD and he’s all but retired himself. His subscribers have had just eight posts in the last month from his “full-time day job” while he banks his daily cheques from The National for explaining that the Tories are bad.
Well, yes. I think realistically we have a 10-year journey after Sturgeon to get anywhere near another shot, and those 10 years can’t start until she pisses off.
Who hasn’t noticed that everyone who making a living out of Indy and in Scotland name hasn’t a bad thing to say about Sturgeon. Thoese people are more interested in making a living than actually delivery on what they preach.
We all know Sturgeon and Murrell need to go, but then what, if we’re to stop the heir apparent Angus Robertson from heading up the SNP and somehow try and steer it towards actual independence, how are we to do this and who fits the bill as a strong indy minded FM.
Alba is still way behind in the polls, and the Britnat media will never give them enough airtime for them to make up enough ground in a short period of time to the 2026 Holyrood elections.
I don’t know maybe the realisation that there’s not going to be an indyref, when the time comes, will jog a few more minds to the fact that Sturgeon is playing us.
Hopefully Salvo and the SSRG can come up with something, if not, then our main priority must be maneuvering the right leader into the FM spot, assuming the SNP are re-elected again into government.
She could stand down tomorrow but it won’t change th fact that we’re looking at 10 yrs min before we even stand another chance of regaining our independence, not that I believe I’ll ever see it now in my lifetime.
The damage is done and we’re now such an apathetic and divided county I personally can’t see a way back.
Aw! C’mon , I’ll probably be deid in 10 years time and I desperately want to pop my clogs knowing that the children and grandchildren of Scotland are making their own way and thriving.
So give me a wee drop of hope that I will see the Saltire flutter from all buildings within the next few years.
1. Get rid of NS is the obvious requirement if the SNP bulk vote is ever to be deployed in favour of action towards independence. The Rev and alert readers have been saying this for some years.
Surely someone in the Wings family knows a few decent, intelligent, SNP members who think the same – they MUST be pushed into standing for the leadership at the conference. BUT if the deadline has passed [as I fear it must have done, given that the “conference” is on Oct 8th] then they must be prepared to kick up a fuss and not meekly roll over. Come on the Wallaces and Bruces in the party ranks. Rise up and fight for Scotland.
2. As Fionan at 8.26, and several others have said, the Salvo/SSRG line of using our Claim of Right is the ONLY practical route we can actually do something about. The truth of our legal right to withdraw from the Union is DYNAMITE. It won’t just blow the doors off!
The sooner it racks up 100,000 signatures on the Edinburgh Proclamation on liberation.scot and salvo.scot the sooner the UN process can start. AND the National Assembly will have the visible backing needed.
Are you keeping your powder dry on this, Rev, until the perfect moment?
Craig Murray says Twitter is messing with him and his latest blog comment is being somehow suppressed. Please share.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
John Mann,
Thanks for buying into the No snipping at others.
Find out about Churchill in Westminster happy to see 4.3 million Indians needlessly die can be added to Westminster overseeing the mass death and destruction of Scotland’s Highlanders and of course the million starved to death in Westminsters Irish Colony.
I think some people might just see having any relationship with Westminster is like kissing a box full of vipers.
We needs Scots kids taught about real history and what Westminster and the Crown have done.
John Wilmot: Impromptu on Charles ll (updated).
God bless our good and gracious king,
Whose promise non relies on,
Who never said a foolish thing,
Nor ever did a wise one,
Whilst Sturgeon, seated on her throne,
Proclaimed ‘A storm I’ve started.’
But now we see her all alone,
Alas she only farted.
I just come on here for the craic.
I don’t visit any other site because I don’t think anything new is being said.
I can’t read anymore about Sturgeon & the SNP being totally crap.
What I am looking for is
‘A little less conversation, a little more action, please’
That is just my personal opinion but hey I’m a lightweight so please don’t take offence.
PS I’m also a sure thing.
When I first started voting for the SNP, I was motivated by a hatred of Labour, not any sort of love for the independence idea or nationalist feelings. I don’t think I’m that unusual in that regard. Most people vote for negative reasons, to thwart some person or party, or, as with Brexit, simply to rock the apple cart (establishment).
It’s complicated. People are complicated.
I see a lot of people here today looking for some sort of roadmap to independence and despairing at the fact that we don’t have one. They shouldn’t despair.
Embrace your hatred of the SNP and let history and events sort out the rest, including the roadmap. That’s what we done when we destroyed Scottish Labour. That’s what Brexit voters were doing when they defied the establishment and voted to leave Europe. There are plenty more examples.
It sounds pretty negative, but it isn’t. If you look back in history you’ll see that progress was made not by people with any great love of anything or plan, but by people who stood up and said “this is shit”. In most cases, even the big ones, Jesus, Luther, Gandhi, etc., they didn’t have a clue what their rejectionism would lead to, and they certainly didn’t have roadmaps; they simply wanted to reject what existed.
I’m going to enjoy the demise of Sturgeon and the SNP. It’s inevitable and I like sure things. And they deserve to be deselected. I’ll leave it to history and providence to work out what happens after that, and it will. Because it always does.
Focus on hurting the SNP. That’s all that matters right now. Everything follows from that. And enjoy it. They’re a bunch of corrupt, selfish, scumbags.
As others have said Peter Murrell also needs to go. As soon as Sturgeon became first Minister, he should have done the right thing and stood down from the position of CEO of the SNP.
It is undemocratic and dictatorial in nature that a husband and wife can have so much control and power within a major political party. Can you imagine Keir Starmer’s wife or the husband of Liz Truss having and then holding the top job within their respective parties?
The failure to remove Murrell was I believe also a major factor in the demise of the SNP and has resulted in a party where accountability, democratic controls and grassroot member involvement have been deliberately weakened with the power very much moved to the two at the top. Murrell’s involvement in the smearing and attempted stitch-up of Alex Salmond together with the “ring-fenced indyref funds” fiasco should have seen him long gone.
It is a sad state of affairs when someone like Carwyn Jones of the Welsh Labour party has probably done more for Scottish Independence recently than Sturgeon and Murrell.
Dear Rev. I never thought that I would be prompted to contribute this, but here goes anyway:
Instead of boasting about numbers, (most of whom like me come on daily to see something new from YOU). Why don’t you clean out the obvious platoon of execrable paid trolls and personality disorders that foul up the site when you, apparently are looking the other way?
The site has been brought down to gutter level with disgusting double act faux imposters. Unionists and morale sapping liars deliberately wounding the one shining light that led us in 2014 and for several years since. It’s worked unfortunately. The proof is that most of the stalwart contributors have deserted due to frustration and lack of concerted leadership which you always provided with your astute analysis. The WBB was more influential than Salmond’s SNP and Jenkins the BBC placeman ever were.
So instead of preening and sneering at other worthy sites such as ‘Yours for Scotland’ why don’t you get back in the fight?
Scotland is in a dire place: as you know better than most the Crown Prosecution Service/Police Scotland/ MSM / the SNP and an army of trolls are working as one hegemony to protect the Union and subjugate anyone who challenges it.
To quote an imperialist slogan from 100 years ago ‘Your Country needs you’.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
@ Sarah, seeing as you have been pushing this.
Re. Salvo sign up.
link to liberation.scot
It’s fairly obvious only the most committed folk that regularly keep an eye on developments online will know about this.
To garner more awareness and signatures from less active Indy folk, might it not be an idea to organise a team of folk at the rescheduled Yestival (and other events) with the mobile IT kit to facilitate sign ups from the many folks that attend.
Plus push that anyone that does sign up then pushes to get their Indy supporting friends, family, and acquaintances to sign as and when they get a chance.
I also recall the work and effort put in trying to get the Scottish Covenant signatures. Might it be worth approaching whomever holds that data as there would surely be a considerable overlap in folk who signed that would agree with the Salvo initiative.
I can’t remember anybody worrying about who replaced Wendy Alexander back in 2007 when we collectively decided that Scottish Labour were a bunch of slugs. Why are you worrying about who replaces Sturgeon?
Don’t people realise what all of this means? It means the SNP is finished.
Who do you think they’re going to replace Sturgeon with? It’s a party of scumbags, do you think they’ve got Martin Luther King waiting to takeover and lead us to the promised land?
You’re not dealing with this if you’re worrying about who replaces Sturgeon. You’re living in denial and it’s embarrassing.
Sara
I could not access the SALVO site for several days, almost the whole of the time after I signed up, which I did right at the beginning.
As a result, I just gave up, I’m afraid. I’m not in the UK, so I thought it might have something to do with that.
I also have trouble with Google. I am asked to proved that I am not a robot very frequently, sometimes 3 times a day. As It is very easy to trace my electronic footprint (for professional reasons), I came to the conclusion that this happened after I visited the Wings and the Craig Murray sites.
@Effigy 11:47
I don’t care or worry about people long since deid, whether the oppressors, or the oppressed.
I am deeply suspicious of the motives (and sanity) of those who do.
If that puts me in a tiny minority, then it is a tiny minority I am very happy to call home.
But don’t let me detain you. For the sake of consistency, you will be busy working yourself into a froth over the genocides and atrocities perped by German Nazis, Soviet commies, Cambodian red cadres, Rwandan tribes, Japanese everybody’s, not to mention the mind-boggling body counts of the Spanish in Central America and the Romans over most of the then-known world.
Busy, busy, I am surprised you have time to post on here at all.
In 2017 Alex Salmond was pushing Sturgeon hard to hold IndyRef2 in September 2018, which included EFTA membership, rather than EU membership.
So 2017 seems to be the year Sturgeon started to turn against Salmond and anyone else who was going to push for IndyRef2 in 2018.
And it can’t be coincidence that that is also the year her and Murrell decided Salmond had to be taken out of the equation.
And we all now know how those events unfolded.
She tried with every fibre of her evil little torso to jail Salmond for the rest of his life.
But we keep returning to the great Indy conundrum,,, what caused Sturgeon to turn against Scottish Independence so dramatically in 2017?
And the final straw for many of us was the damp squib Brexit/EU speech in January 2020.
Sturgeon has been given opportunity after opportunity to push the case for Scottish independence,,,and to date she has failed in every one of those opportunities.
The Liberation.Scot site faces regular interference all designed to interfere in people signing up. Persevere is the answer. It is a sign of the fear Salvo is causing.
Stu,
I have gone past the point of recognising the SNP as a party at all in any way shape or form,
I do not linger on the thought.
They’ve gone as if they co not exist, an occassional comment perhaps in response to someone else’s comment, but nothing more.
I actually have overtaken the position that Alba will be any different long term than the Snp.
The reason for this is as follows.
Anyone that works in or for the perimaters of the Devolved government in Scotland is working in a Westminster legislation programme. Follow their rules willingly and english laws overlaying Scots laws,
The whole structures purpose is to styme Scottish independence from the internal working in Scotland. That was its original purpose by labour if I recall.
When we rid ourselves of NS and the SNP, she will just be replaced by an other puppet within that same mechanism, a different name, a different party same result.
Our problem is larger than the SNP by far.
It is the Devolved Government that takes its instructions and bows down to Westminster English laws,, supreme courts, and civil servants that at the end of the day are employees of Westminster.
At the end of the day when the fog clears from Scottish minds we can see Scotland is run by Two Westminster Governments, head office and branch office in Scotland,
It will not be a political party in Scotland or a Westminster branch office that gain Scotland its independence,
It will be the people that overtake political structure in Scotland and by pass the blockage.
Stu,
What about the plebiscitary election ( after the Supreme Court inevitably puts the kibosh on a referendum)?
Barrhead Boy:
Member of the useless Alba Party and has a man crush on Mad Vlad.
ScotGoesPop:
Zero-covid cult member.
Yours For Scotland:
Never heard of it.
Bella Caledonia:.
Where all the woke, SJWs of the independence movement hangout. Man hating intersectional feminists with multicoloured hair, male feminists simping for female validation and an obsession with identity politics. Soy boy central…oh and don’t forget the gender pronouns.
WeeGingerDug
Every post is the same, “The Tories are bad”. Sells crap Gaelic maps of Scotland that nobody cares about.
Wings Over Scotland:
The only blog worth following – brutal honesty and offers an insightful look into the world of Scottish politics. Anyone who is connected to the excellent Cannon Fodder gaming franchise, deserves copious amounts of praise.
P.S
Stuart has a track record of being right on most things, even back in the early 90s.
He was right in his review of Goldenaxe – it was overrated and I never liked the game. Final Fight, the Double Dragon series and the Streets of Rage franchise were always the better beat em’ up games.
YES is realistically 10/15 years away from getting a second shot at independence.
everyone should watch at least 10 minutes of this –
link to youtube.com
TLDR : phone baloney markets don’t work, and the UK and especially Scotland has no real reason for high energy prices, given our resources.
if you watch the whole thing, just imagine what Adam Smith would have thought of it.
What’s to become of Wings over the next 10 years?
Could it be turned into a substitute for Twitter?
Obviously it wouldn’t be as sophisticated as Twitter but then being banned and not able to post isn’t very sophisticated.
Just an idea!
Iain Lawson. @1.59pm.
Yes, Iain in the e-mails they send, they tell you that the shitrag the Express newspaper, if you can call it that, ran, and continues to run a fearmongering campaign against them.
The main supposedly indy party of Scotland the SNP, has chosen the other route of virtually ignoring the Claim of Right and the significance that surrounds it.
Nicola is hamstrung
” Who do you think they’re going to replace Sturgeon with? It’s a party of scumbags, do you think they’ve got Martin Luther King waiting to takeover and lead us to the promised land? ”
Enter Sandman ie Alyyyyn Smiff – whose ” Leave the light on ….” blah blah was elevated to the level of Honest Abe’s Gettysburg Address/ MLK’s ” I have a dream ” speeches and – * laughably * , catapulted him into the hermetically sealed elite High Command . Well , that and being the right shade of pink and knowing where to insert his tongue .Who wouldn’t get behind him ?
Who would ?
Aye , you’re right H , ” aint nobody home ” . But given the majority of actual and potential Independence supporters still identify the SNP as the ( only ? ) Party of Independence , it’s downfall would leave an obvious problem – who/what will fill the vacated space ?
ALBA could but , as stated previously , I have grave doubts it will ever do so with Alex as frontman – however much we would love to see him regain his former prominence and the anger we feel at what was done to him . The reality – probably – is , that ship has sailed : rather ….been torpedoed by poisonous pygmies .
The SNP * could * be salvaged , but it would require mass insurrection in the ranks , ousting the Pleadership and followed by a forensic deep-cleaning of the bearded ladies , midgets , sanity tightrope walkers , identity jugglers , performing seals and clowns that are clogging it’s arteries . That may prove an impossible task I agree .
The best bet may be to abandon the idea of requiring a Party – any Party – in order to achieve our goal . Address the people directly , honestly , point-out to them the nature of the challenge , the nature of the enemy , the consequences of remaining hog-tied in Union , the certainty of going down with the sinking HMS BRITANNIA if we don’t seize the lifeboat of Independence . Soon . Very soon
Nicola is hamstrung because the security services have the whatsapp messages that show her team was in a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
She knows it, they know it and they are kicking the can down the road until they can declare independence illegal
Ian Brotherhood @11.42am.
Ian.
Craig Murray has been shadow/Ghost banned by Twitter for ages now, the b*stards don’t want you reading his links and comments, so Twitter doesn’t alert his followers.
From Murray’s Twitter.
“Please forgive me if you are one of the small number of people seeing me put out the link to this article for the umpteenth time.
Less than 5% of my followers have seen it at all and twitter seems determined to keep it that way. Please help by retweeting.”
The Edinburgh Proclamation, for those who haven’t read it yet.
link to salvo.scot
Constipated bowels have more movement in them.
“Instead of boasting about numbers, (most of whom like me come on daily to see something new from YOU). Why don’t you clean out the obvious platoon of execrable paid trolls and personality disorders that foul up the site when you, apparently are looking the other way?”
It wasn’t “boasting”. I said it wasn’t a good thing. But the answer to your question is “because we’re closed”. I don’t work here any more and I have better things to do with my own time than police a load of unruly schoolchildren pathologically incapable of behaving like grownups, for free.
Since the webspace is paid for I reserve the right to put a post up if I feel like it, and you can read it if you like, but I have no obligation to patrol the comments. If you think there’s a job worth doing, YOU bloody do it. I’ve been teaching you how for the last 10 years.
“What’s to become of Wings over the next 10 years?
Could it be turned into a substitute for Twitter?
Obviously it wouldn’t be as sophisticated as Twitter but then being banned and not able to post isn’t very sophisticated.”
That thought has actually occurred to me – when I would have tweeted something, just stick it here instead. There’d be loads of (short, shallow) posts, which would at least justify the outlay on hosting costs. I’ve sort of done that on Facebook, but Facebook is so fucking awful and I just got banned for a week for calling someone a “silly twat”.
Whether it’s worth bothering with I’m not sure but I may yet do it for a bit and see, especially now it’s autumn and I’m not going to be out walking so much, and it least it might mean less arseholery in the comments.
Here’s the Twitter page of the Scottish National Congress, which part of the peaceful Scottish Liberation Movement.
It’s worth a look.
link to twitter.com
Sign up to Liberation Movement.
link to liberation.scot
Confused says:
18 September, 2022 at 2:35 pm
everyone should watch at least 10 minutes of this
I watched Yanis Varoufakis. Confused? Yes I am.
Might have to watch another couple of times.
However I am willing to believe the huge increase in energy prices is all a massive con and just more ‘State sponsored Super Profits’
I’m not sure how good it is for my mental health to be aware of these things when I am helpless to do anything about it & and it’s not as if we have politicians like Yanis Varoufakis.
Our lot all seem to be part of the con.
Snp = wheels.
Party, mandates = axle and steering.
The Devolved government = body structure.
The wheels of independence have stoped turning, due to the steering and axle failure, these are attach to the body structure which is a borrowed misfit to the rest of the car of independence.
Sooner or later we are going to have to get out and learn to walk on our own two feet,
There sre plenty of links on supportive walking sticks by Sarah and republicofscotland, sign up and at least the people may be able to get there own bus,
Otherwise you can stand around the broken car all day sucking yer thumbs.
You’re move.
Robert Hughes @ 2:56 pm
“The best bet may be to abandon the idea of requiring a Party – any Party – in order to achieve our goal .”
That seems rather a good suggestion, Robert. It also coincides with what we see, the inevitable transformation of an ‘independence movement’ into a ‘national liberation movement’, the rupture caused entirely through the dominant national party’s increasingly obvious deceit and co-operation with the Imperial power, its primary aim now to block independence.
Stuart
Why not ask for a subscription to cover hosting costs?
Any arseholery in the comments you could ban the arsehole for a week and even call them ‘silly twat’ 🙂
I miss all your photo-essays, the bear patrols & photos of your ice lollies etc.
That could be our Sunday treat on the new style Wings.
‘The Bird with Wings.
Like a bird on the wire
Like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free
Call Wings ‘trans feet’ and you could corner the Indy youth market.
@ Dan at 1.16: “…liberation.scot…mobile IT kit to facilitate sign-ups at Yestival etc…. and Scottish Covenant signatures.. approach them too..”
Thanks, Dan – those are both good ideas. I will email sara@salvo.scot and hope she is able to organise them.
Wherever I post something about the Edinburgh Proclamation I do urge new signatories to spread the word. I keep hoping that the SNP membership en masse will sign!
have you had any feedback on new signings? I know my small efforts have gained 10 and hope they in turn have recruited more.
The treaty of the union is no longer a treaty of two Countries.
It is now a Westminster Treaty apparently with Westminster,
It has been corrupted, altered and changed by Westminster legislation and statue laws slapped over the top year by year, obscuring its identity of the founding of Great Britain,
The old English parliament entered into the treaty of unions new Great Britain parliament directly without any elections taken place in England,
But the old Scottish parliament had to elect new members to enter the new parliament of Great Britain.
From day one this treaty had been breached by the old english parliament of Westminster.
But the English Branch of Westminster in Scotland (No matter which political party) never mentions the multitude of these breaches and abuses,
Why?
Because they are one and the same government,
None of them are going to kick there own shins or give themselves a push to towards unemployment.
Robert Hughes,
Alf Baird.
It was a good suggestion.
O/T but in step with the day that’s in it.
Some thoughts on QEII, mourning, her legacy and the Monarchy in general
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
Subscription is a great idea, it would certainly get rid of poor people in Scotland along with pensioners if you had to pay.
@ Margaret Eleftheriou at 1.26: ” I couldn’t access the Salvo site for several days and gave up”.
The Salvo site is under attack apparently – I imagine 77th Brigade and others [SNP?] don’t like its news that Scotland has a fantastic Constitution and doesn’t need Westminster’s permission for anything.
Please persevere. Have you tried liberation.scot instead?
@ Rab Davis at 1:58 pm
I disagree, she started in early 2015,There were a lot of things that lead me to that period in time,I’ve been over them many times, By 2017 she plus others was/were well into her/their stride,minions/worshipers in place ,Yousaf was one of the first I noticed,
Swinney always was a crawler
@Robert Hughes 2.56 pm
The best bet may be to abandon the idea of requiring a Party – any Party – in order to achieve our goal . Address the people directly , honestly , point-out to them the nature of the challenge , the nature of the enemy , the consequences of remaining hog-tied in Union , the certainty of going down with the sinking HMS BRITANNIA if we don’t seize the lifeboat of Independence . Soon . Very soon
So a non-party party then? How does that work? Even assuming there were a bunch of charismatic, talented, available and well funded individuals who were ready, willing and able to construct and lead this grand pro-independence panjandrum….how is it different in the end from a workaday political party?
Let’s assume we start such a “United for Yes” umbrella organisation, are we aiming to attract people away from existing pro-independence parties, or act as an adjunct to them….? Will the new movement just be a single purpose vehicle to win the next referendum or plebiscitary election, or is it a fixture until we win independence?
Anyone who thinks that’s likely to be achieved soon, still less very soon, must be in the market for some magic beans or bridge ownership. The SNP isn’t just going to say: “That’s fine folks, we’ll jut put everything else behind us and stand shoulder to shoulder until referendum or election day, and stand on a common platform, ignoring the fact everybody knows we’ve been fighting like rabid hyenas tied up in a sack for the past few years”.
Alex Salmond said in Edinburgh last month he thought plebiscitary elections should be fought on a common platform by a slate of pro indy candidates. It’s a noble aim, but does anyone honestly see the SNP and Greens signing up? Is Salvo and the SSRG going to morph in to this united platform for Yes in time for the next election? If neither thing happens, then some of those posting above are right: realistically we’re looking at 5-10 years.
If that’s too long for some folk, stop greeting about it and get behind plebiscitary elections and making sure the SNP and Greens don’t prioritise their own devolutionary interest in holding on to power over the “real deal” for independence.
Sarah,
Just curious as to What type of Snp do you hope will sign up in mass, if they had any gumption they would not be in the snp.
This was something I could not understand AS, still believing in, joining up with the NuSnp in Holyrood. Both have GB in front of them,
Surely the wise ones have already left. Stu has pointed it out for long enough for the word to have got around,
No offence meant in any way to you’re self.
But the rest of them in a liberation movement all trying to lead us down a gender identity change and climate change crises I ha ma doubts.
” Will the new movement just be a single purpose vehicle to win the next referendum or plebiscitary election, or is it a fixture until we win independence? ”
What ” next referendum ” or , for that matter ” plebiscitary election ” ? If you actually believe either of those two things are going to happen I’ll * see * yr bridges and beans and raise you a cloak of invisibility .
You’re keen on asking for proof of future possibilities , well, I’m not in the clairvoyance lark and seem to have mislaid my crystal ball . Like you – and everyone else , I’m looking for something to cling-on to amidst the wreckage of what we thought was our Ship of Dreams and turned-out to be paper boat
Wow! And I thought there were no differences between the sexes, that it was all just a ‘social construct’ and women didn’t exist…
link to theguardian.com
A’ll dae it…
Andy Ellis @ 4.26pm: ‘Make sure the SNP and Greens don’t prioritise their own devolutionary interest’
Great suggestion. How do we do this?
‘Since the webspace is paid for I reserve the right to put a post up if I feel like it, and you can read it if you like, but I have no obligation to patrol the comments. If you think there’s a job worth doing, YOU bloody do it. I’ve been teaching you how for the last 10 years’.
You haven’t taught me fuck all in the last ten years. You have informed me and others. For that I am grateful. But I get the message and it’s not a good one. Particularly as the gaggle of ghouls that have congregated on here have arrived in your wake.
Which is the appropriate word for where this site is.
Goodbye.
@ James Che: “Just curious as to what type of SNP you are hoping will sign up [to liberation.scot] en masse.”
I did say “hope” with an exclamation mark i.e. not expecting it.
However some of my [not as in mine – I resigned pre-May 2021] local SNP branch members have signed up so you never know.
The fact is that most members are just members – they never came to branch meetings and certainly would only be taking a superficial notice of politics, being content to trust the party to be doing something and having a “plan”. IF the branch contacted them and recommended signing up they probably would. BUT there are restrictions on branch emails to members… I used to wonder why but now I know.
@Robert Hughes 5.07 pm
I agree that #undyref2 is highly unlikely, whatever the SNP says, but the fact they’ve painted themselves in to a corner is an opportunity. Making the next (and if necessary every subsequent) General Election plebiscitary is a decision the movement as a whole, and the pro-independence parties can take. They may quibble about the details of whether they want to filed single candidates in each constituency and/or run an agreed slate of candidates, but elections are going to happen.
Indeed, if the SNP/Green coalition had any guts it would make it clear it will immediately precipitate early Holyrood elections if the Supreme Court finds against the Scottish Government next month. That’s far more likely to bring about a positive result, and in a reasonable timescale, than “cunning plans for indy”.
None of us can “prove” what is most likely, but if the next GE – whenever it happens – isn’t fought as a plebiscite, we’ll know who to blame.
Sturgeon knew at some time reaonsably early she would be rumbled, so engineered a schism on the party to drive out her enemies. She then promoted all the fringe-minded who would do anything for a wee bit of power. That’s bought her another couple of years, but I think she sees that time is just about up.
I suspect her latest ruse, to present a solidly-losing referendum begging letter to the Supreme Court, will allow her to wail at the injustice and ride off into the sunset with her notional partner and their ill-gotten gains.
@Merganser 5.22 pm
Those who aren’t members can only exert pressure by campaigning, getting the word out there, and ensuring as many people as possible know what the alternatives are, and try to hold the SNP and Green’s feet to the fire.
Those who are still within those parties, or who plan to carry on supporting them, need to ensure their voices are heard. We can’t force them to change, only encourage them. Experience to date is hardly encouraging: even when the SNP membership did try to clean the dross out of the NEC, the leadership soon intervened decisively to re-impose their “working toward the Leader” dogma.
Whether the broader independence movement is capable of imposing its collective will on the political parties remains to be seen. I remain unconvinced, even if hopeful.
Just to throw the following into the discussion about desired change…
The new King hasn’t finalised the details re the union of his crowns yet, so more Orders in Council can be expected to enable the nailing and proclamation of his constitutional will to be enacted in Scotland, Wales, England & Northern Ireland.
Handing the new Seal for Scotland to the First Minister wasn’t because of provisions in any Scotland Act, it’s his freely expressed wish.
‘Union of the crowns’ is only a matter for the incumbent & PC, Parliament cannot interfere unless it’s to abolish the monarchy entirely following a referendum.
*Stop poliicing the personality of the holder of any ‘high office’ and understand its function & privileges within the rule of law, please and thank you*
@Republicofscotland (3.01) –
A few of us Wingers met Craig Murray earlier today in ‘George’ Square, had a pint and blether. He was in good form and looks very healthy.
He explained the Twitter thing but it’s all a bit over my head. Basically, they’re monitoring and interfering pretty much in plain view. Dunno if it’s the same with FB etc but I would imagine so.
Sara and others
I just tried again, got through but when ~i tried to access the salvo sute, this is the message that I received.
The connection has timed out
An error occurred during a connection to salvo.scot.
The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments.
If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer’s network connection.
If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.
Sorry for the typos!
James Che says:
18 September, 2022 at 4:20 pm
Subscription is a great idea, it would certainly get rid of poor people in Scotland along with pensioners if you had to pay.
I take it you don’t think it’s a great idea. Not sure if you are being snide or have omitted to include the word not.
What’s your solution James? Do you think Stu should have to pay for everything along with writing the articles, moderating the comments & generally giving up his time all for nothing. I reckon he could get fed-up with that and just close the comments.
The fact that the site is on the internet could mean it isn’t accessible to the some poor & some pensioners.
Same applies to TV.
I get the impression you may not know the cost of hosting a website.
FYI The more you post the more it costs. I reckon if there had been a subscription in place over the last year you certain would have gotten your money’s worth.
‘Wings Over Scotland’ isn’t as far as I know a charity.
As others have said, registering with Salvo/Liberation needs a bit of perseverance in the face of probable interference, but it’s worth it.
Ruby says:
18 September, 2022 at 6:20 pm
‘Wings Over Scotland’ isn’t as far as I know a charity.
—
The quality of the articles attracted readers here; not everyone visits to confirm their own bias; some other ‘blogs’ appear to function as a means to assess who agrees with the host.
There is a gap in the so-called blogosphere…
@ Margaret Eleftheriou: have you tried liberation.scot going directly instead of via salvo.scot?
” but if the next GE – whenever it happens – isn’t fought as a plebiscite, we’ll know who to blame. ”
I think the problem is not just getting these numbskulls to fight the next GE as a PE Andy , it’s the strong likelihood the *UK * State will simply not acknowledge any result – any victory for the SNP , as either an undeniable right to a Referendum , and certainly not as de facto Independence .
If this were to happen and Scot/Gov were to then take the case to the UN there could be some hope of progress .
A lot of hypotheticals there and that’s before we consider the question of whether the SNP WILL get a convincing result at the next GE – or not . It seems to be going out of it’s way to make that far from certain ; and who knows what skeletons may be unveiled in the closet if the Brit State perceives there’s a genuine threat – if NS is not already * compromised * and programmed to destroy . Something that can’t be ruled-out – it happens .
“You haven’t taught me fuck all in the last ten years.”
Well then you really weren’t paying attention.
@ Rev – I am sorry you have had to read unpleasant comments. They are completely unwarranted. Perhaps just block such people to save us all being upset?
Meanwhile turning to happier things, how are your rats doing? Any baby ones or are they celibate?
Was there a ‘2 minute silence’ at 2000?
If so, it began and ended with a short but hoorya loud blast from a ship’s horn on the Clyde. Nearly shat masel’, twice.
That’s not normal, etc.
Rev I love a double negative!
Gawd.
I remember this day 8 years ago. The whole country on the bounce, trotting horns & so much excitement.
Still brings a lump to my throat.
Besides a Yes vote, if I had the power to change another thing it’d be Salmond to hold on. He’d never have let the barstewards away with giving us shite. When you think about it, the momentum of an electric campaign, the soaring membership, not going back in our box & the landslide of 2015..all allowed to either & die under Sturgeon.
I’m reminded of her wee speel on becoming FM.
How an old man had bought her a box of teacakes to thank her for *giving him something to vote for- for the 1st time in decades* I wonder if he’d ram them down her throat -box an’all. Like someone up there mentions – I now loathe her with a passion. I can’t even watch her now. I haven’t read all the comments yet but I wonder if she’ll feck off & resign when the Supreme Court tells her no? I’m not one to wish I’ll will but I will make an exception.
Karma is a bitch & I hope it pays her a visit. She’s squandered no end of missed chances & I pity the poor deluded souls that still believe her pi$h (either that or they’re in disguise & wearing black pampers!
@Robert Hughes 7.53 pm
In that event, it’s up to the Scottish people to make it so. If we meekly accept Westminster ignoring a pro-independence plebiscitary election victory, then we don’t deserve to be independent. Simple as that. As soon as a result of 50% +1 is announced, the movement simply announces we’ve won and that we are de facto independent. Our MPs leave Westminster and a new Assembly negotiates the detailed terms.
Sturgeon is one person, however malign her influence. If we as a people allow her and her party to derail the whole movement, then we have nobody but ourselves to blame. Lots of folk are still too happy to insist that it can’t be done, or the game is rigged. It’s a cop out and I’m tired of hearing the excuses.
Yes , well , that sounds like what I’m suggesting above ie a People’s Uprising , does it not ? If the Party that is mandated by the people to make Independence happen refuses to act on a situation like that ie a decisive victory in a PE , that Party would have to be pushed aside and the people assert their will
@ Ian Brotherhood at 6:02 pm
Facebook??
I have a theory that Facebook is quite hack-able,and the Branch officers made Facebook compulsory,Three things happened that made me wonder if that happened.
A few years later Wings brought up the spending on Software (I think that was what it was under)in the SNP accounts,it seemed very very high for a business with 20ish admin staff
Or It’s just my paranoia
@Andy Ellis says:18 September, 2022 at 8:27 pm
“Sturgeon is one person”
As a colleague of mine is fond of saying; No shit Sherlock!
I am frequently bemused at the opinion/belief expressed by so many on here, that one woman is single-handedly holding back the SNP at HR, the SNP at WM, the SNP in local councils up and down the land, etc.
She seems to fill a position in many poster’s minds analogous to a supreme monarch, whose every utterance is absolute law by divine right, which when you think of it, is ironic to say the least.
Here we are, supposedly 5.5 million sovereign Scots, of which near 2.75 million sovereign Scots want progress on Indy. An enormous mass of human pressure, unaccountably held back by one wee woman.
Seriously?
Does not compute in my world view. Soz.
“It’s a cop out and I’m tired of hearing the excuses.”
Snap.
Sturgeon is working for the british state. So are her inner circle.
@Scott says:18 September, 2022 at 8:20 pm
“That’s not normal, etc.”
Sorry Scott, your post was ambiguous, what’s not normal for you?
The ship’s horn blasts, or you pebble dashing your smalls?
stonefree says:
18 September, 2022 at 8:58 pm
@ Ian Brotherhood at 6:02 pm
Facebook??
I have a theory that Facebook is quite hack-able,and the Branch officers made Facebook compulsory,Three things happened that made me wonder if that happened.
A few years later Wings brought up the spending on Software (I think that was what it was under)in the SNP accounts,it seemed very very high for a business with 20ish admin staff
Was that the intangible assets of £282K?
I wondered about that. Any examples of what other similar sized organisations spend on software?
I didn’t understand why it was an intangible asset but then I don’t understand business accounting anymore than I understand the electricity market/auction thingy explained in a video posted earlier by Confused.
In the sort of simple book-keeping I know purchasing/leasing software would just be put down as an expenditure.
Most software is currently leased rather than sold so you have to pay monthly which is quite annoying. I’m quite happy to use an outdated version forever or at least as long as possible.
I’m very reluctant to update my Mac because I know that most of the software I have is not compatible with the current OS.
John Main says:
18 September, 2022 at 9:55 pm
@Scott says:18 September, 2022 at 8:20 pm
“That’s not normal, etc.”
Sorry Scott, your post was ambiguous
—
It wasn’t.
Neither is this one.
You can interpret this any way you like, etc.
Following on from Sturgeon’s proclamation of Britishness, Ian Blackford and Alex Salmond were at the Accession Council to proclaim King Charles III of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and Commonwealth countries as their “Liege Lord”, swearing their faithful obedient service to him.
Independence isn’t coming any time soon.
The so-called independence politicians are too in love with being part of the British Establishment.
@Colin the Keelie
“It is this day ordered in Council that the Secretary of State for Scotland, one of His Majesty’s Principal Secretaries of State do cause a copy of the Proclamation herewith sent for proclaiming King Charles the Third to be sent to the Lord Lyon King of Arms, who is to take care, and forthwith to arrange with the Lord Provost of the City of Edinburgh (to whom a copy of the Proclamation shall also be sent) to proclaim His Majesty; and that he likewise do cause copies thereof to be sent to the Sheriffs Principal of the Sheriffdoms of Scotland who are forthwith to arrange with the Convenors of Councils in their respective Sheriffdoms (to whom copies of the Proclamation shall also be sent) to have His Majesty proclaimed to the Lieges of their Sheriffdom in the manner accustomed; and to the Lord Provosts and Provosts of the Cities of Scotland to be by them duly published in their respective Cities by proclamation or otherwise.”
link to privycouncil.independent.gov.uk
—
Does “Liege Lord” fit in that category?
Hi John Main.
you typed,
“I am frequently bemused at the opinion/belief expressed by so many on here, that one woman is single-handedly holding back the SNP at HR, the SNP at WM, the SNP in local councils up and down the land, etc.
She seems to fill a position in many poster’s minds analogous to a supreme monarch, whose every utterance is absolute law by divine right, which when you think of it, is ironic to say the least.”
You really haven’t paying attention to and understanding everything that Rev Stu has been posting since the end of 2014, have you?
Wings flag in Freedom Square today – carried by Wee Annie. Can’t keep a good man down! See the film clip on The Crossgate Centre supports Alex Salmond twitter.
Betrayal is the ultimate sin.
The FM is the ONLY person who can stop an election being a plebiscite and can stop any Scot gov action to declare independence or effectively assert the Claim of Right.
Anybody who says the FM is not to blame for the inaction of the last 8 years, for her statements that nothing can be done until Brexit vote/until Brexit negotiated/until effects of Brexit are known/until after Covid/until after economic effects of Covid are recovered from/until a s30 granted ad infinitum, is not paying attention.
Scott
Thanks for the link.
It shows Sturgeon, Blackford and Salmond proclaim King Charles III as their feudal sovereign master.
Like subservient lickspittle Toom Tabard King John Balliol. They bend the knee to the King of the UK but speak of the sovereignty of the people of Scotland when they are looking for votes.
Looks like the gemme’s up, see around 55 mins in:
link to barrheadboy.com
@ Alf Baird: Phil Boswell telling the truth about Angus Robertson and the party leadership. Very interesting because Phil knows all those people and how the party has changed since Phil was an SNP MP.
Will The National report this story, do you think? Rhetorical question, of course.
Colin the keelie says:
18 September, 2022 at 11:45 pm
Scott
Thanks for the link.
It shows Sturgeon, Blackford and Salmond proclaim King Charles III as their feudal sovereign master.
—-
What function would a President serve and how much would it cost to enable them to carry it out?
Donald Trump could issue executive orders that were symbolic or effective, depending on context – Charles can only impose his will re administration of the business of the Crown – he can’t direct the parliament agenda beyond nodding through legislation and agreeing to limits of powers quid pro quo – he could yet remove powers from WM that affect Scotland/Wales/NI if it helps make Monarchy Ltd (sic) run more effectively from an oversight perspective, especially given the plans to have ‘proxy reps’ if out of the country etc.
Time will tell…
Would abolishing the monarchy repeal Claim of Right Act 1689?
I think it would – be careful what you wish for…
Ruby – the full vid with Varoufakis is worth watching, the first 10 minutes give you the broadstrokes, but further on you get the detail about how bad it is.
– this is part of the trouble as he says himself – if it takes a guy like him some hours to find the scam, scanning the footnotes of govt legislation, and 20 minutes to explain it, then the public will never know, because the news media gives you 20 seconds tops, then cuts you off.
This scheme, in Greece, is to be rolled out europe wide.
In another video I saw a claim that the gas market (which used to have stable long term supply contracts) was turned into an artificial market, then actively, not merely mismanaged, but sabotaged.
“Meanwhile turning to happier things, how are your rats doing?”
Well, time marches on and where there were six there are now only three 🙁 But the three are in good shape, nibbling on chocolate Weetos as we speak.
You are right Rev, that there is nobody picking up the baton and running with it even after you showed them the way to do it: reference everything, be truthful.
They are all waiting for a sugar Daddy to bankroll a big venture instead of building from the base so they do nothing.
A very sad, but accurate article. I can still recall being in the SNP, and genuinely excited that something would happen soon. For quite some time, I kind of fell for the ‘she has a secret cunning plan, but doesn’t want to give the game away’ nonsense too. Now I support ALBA party, as it is all I can do.
Alex Salmond wanted independence, Nicola Sturgeon just wanted to be First Minister.
It really does seem that Sturgeon is either an agent of the brit establishment, or a deluded fool. In my opinion, her role, is to act as a kind of ‘lightning rod’ for indy sentiment, to keep rpetendy promising, but NEVER actually doing anything. She already knows the outcome of the English supreme court, and so in her plan for government even put in writing the caveat, that only IF the supreme court agrees will she bring forward a referendum bill.
In a few weeks we will see yet again, how sturgeon has played us all for fools.
Meanwhile, we see millions squandered on the death of an extremely rich old English lady, while hundreds of poor old ladies in Scotland will themselves have to decide to either eat or heat this winter. An utter disgrace.
Oh, Scotland, held within the clutches of England, for so long, fed utter propaganda by the English controlled pretendy ‘scottishy’ media. Today, I shall not weep for Elizabeth Saxe coburg, I will weep for Scotland and its people and the treachery perfidious albion has placed upon us all.
Sarah at 1123pm,
I so very much agree, and your point needs to be quoted again;
“Anybody who says the FM is not to blame for the inaction of the last 8 years, for her statements that nothing can be done until Brexit vote/until Brexit negotiated/until effects of Brexit are known/until after Covid/until after economic effects of Covid are recovered from/until a s30 granted ad infinitum, is not paying attention.”
So very, very true.
The issue isn’t whether Sturgeon and her leadership bear responsibility for the current situation and failure to progress – they self evidently do. The issue is the propensity of too many in the movement to concentrate their ire on the actions and personality of one individual. She may be FM but she’s not Ming the Merciless!
Not only is it a total cop put to attribute everything to one bad actor, but the construction of Sturgeon as this Machiavellian figure who is variously and simultaneously solely responsible for all our current woes and also compromised by British nationalist blackmail and/or now playing for the other team, just makes those advancing the argument look like extremists to anyone in the mainstream.
Sturgeon IS NOT the only person who can stop elections being plebiscitary, or stop the Scottish Government declaring independence or “effectively asserting the CLaim of Right” (whatever THAT means!).
It’s the sovereign Scottish people who are stopping these things happening by not electing a majority of political representatives who will enact these things, or – if that’s what people really think should happen – not taking to the streets and MAKING them happen if either their own domestic representatives fail to do their bidding, or the British state tries to deny us our rights when it is shown the majority have decided to take their self determination.
I HAVE been paying attention: it’s those fixated on demonising one person (whatever her manifest faults before anyone accuses me of being a Sturgeon lover, I come to bury her, not praise her!) and attributing the failures of the whole movement on to one bad actor who appear to lack perspective.
You’ve come to bury her, Andy?
In what respect? You’ve just devoted another several hundred words to telling us not to blame her — to blame ourselves — then you say you’ve come to bury her?
And why did you put HAVE in capitals when you said you “HAVE been paying attention”? I don’t know what any of that means.
What oddness.
@ Ruby at 10:00 pm
It was to a company like Cambridge Analytical
tangible asset is one you can put your hands on, solid
intangible , isn’t, Film script, plans, software,I think is included.
The figure I had in mind was £190k (only £90k adrift)
I would have listed it as a running cost or on going expense
The SNP accounts in general are a bit of a shambles,
The 2020 one where the £282k is mention are the ones that the Auditor covered their backside
The earlier 2019 ones (I think ??)had the £190k
listed
Andy Ellis says:
19 September, 2022 at 8:32 am
‘It’s the sovereign Scottish people who are stopping these things happening by not electing a majority of political representatives who will enact these things’
The electorate have done the electing bit quite a few times Andy, it’s the enacting that’s needing doing. We just didn’t realise that we were actually voting for a bunch of corrupt, lying, cheating, unethical parasites masquerading as representatives of the Scottish People.
Alf Baird @11.51pm.
Thanks for the link, very interesting info within.
@Ebok 11.14 am
Well, I don’t think we have the excuse that we don’t know now. Of course there are still plenty who believe “Nicola’s got this”, much as it pains those of us who aren’t true believers to see it. Whether the electorate at any recent election were casting their vote for the things you posted about is open to question. Some undoubtedly did, but many didn’t.
For an election to be plebiscitary, the pro-independence parties standing for election have to explicitly make it plebiscitary. None have ever done so in the past. Sturgeon has said it’s her plan to do so if the SC rules against the SG next month. Whether we believe she will do so is another question.
She could after all make it quite plain tomorrow that if the SC rules that Holyrood is not competent to hold a referendum without Westminster’s permission, she will stand down as FM and she and her party (with the Greens) will provoke new Holyrood elections and specifically make them plebiscitary, with 50% + 1 on the regional list being taken as a mandate for independence.
If the voter really believe that they were “actually voting for a bunch of corrupt, lying, cheating, unethical parasites masquerading as representatives of the Scottish People. then it is in their hands to remedy the situation.
@ Rev at 01.39: “nibbling on Chocolate Weetos..”.
Glad to hear it. They have a good life – I doubt they spend much time worrying about the state of society, truth and lies.
stonefree says:
19 September, 2022 at 11:00 am
The SNP accounts in general are a bit of a shambles
Another of those things that is incomprehensible to most voters.
Confused says:
19 September, 2022 at 1:02 am
Ruby – the full vid with Varoufakis is worth watching, the first 10 minutes give you the broadstrokes, but further on you get the detail about how bad it is.
Cheers Confused! I’ve been dipping in watching 10 mins at a time then having a rest to allow my blood pressure to return to normal.
Robert Louis says:
“Meanwhile, we see millions squandered on the death of an extremely rich old English lady, while hundreds of poor old ladies in Scotland will themselves have to decide to either eat or heat this winter. An utter disgrace.
“Oh, Scotland, held within the clutches of England for so long, fed utter propaganda by the English controlled pretendy ‘Scottishy’ media. Today, I shall not weep for Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg, I will weep for Scotland and its people and the treachery perfidious Albion has placed upon us all.”
I agree entirely with your sentiment, Robert.
Confused says:
“Everyone should watch at least 10 minutes of this –”
link to youtube.com
Many thanks for the link, Confused. Excellent explanation by Yanis Varoufakis. I thought it was very interesting that he mentioned community ownership, citizen assemblies and juries of randomly selected citizens. Although he was talking specifically about socialising green energy, these ideas are very similar to those proposed by Salvo and the SSRG in a wider constitutional/democratic context.
Sad to say.
My hope is exposing that lying evil cow, Sturgeon for what she is.
She deserves bad Karma.
At the moment, that’s it
Genuine words of wisdom from a unionist.
Sturgeon will never deliver independence.
If she does run a plebiscite election in 2024, it will not deliver independence.
What it will do is ensure that the SNP will win most of the Scottish seats.
You guys on this website have clearly got Sturgeon sussed.
If you want Independence then you have to think long term.
You have to campaign against Sturgeon/SNP.
If you succeed in getting rid of Sturgeon and weaken theSNP, you can then rebuild.
Sturgeon has attempted to deliver independence purely by bad mouthing Cameron/May/Johnson/Westminster/England. Nothing else, no plans.
You need a govt in Holyrood that builds the Scottish economy, creates high paid jobs which in turn increases tax revenue which can be used to pay for welfare.
You can then go to the people and say look what we have created, we could do even more if we were independent.
It fizzled to nothing, predictably. Sturgeon has gotten good at timing these “big announcements” for the last couple of days of a parliamentary session, so that noone’s got time to ask any irritating questions or follow up on it in any way before everyone disappears off on holiday.
By the time they come back, the world’s moved on again, and what went before’s been forgotten. Total momentum killer, which is handy for the SNP.
Rab ..way back at the start. “The hatred you feel for Sturgeon is greater than Thatcher”. I agree , it’s always worse when one of your own betrays you.
Sturgeon singing God Save The King. Is the final nail in her coffin. She is dead to me. The SNP members from Blackford to Cherry to Swinney. Have all backed the establishment, with glowing epitaphs about the English Queen.
Not one of them is fit to lead the independence movement. The SNP are finished.
I have no clue what happens next ,other than more damage to Scotland. We have a gaping wound , and pretty soon it will be fatal.There will be nothing left to save.
8 years ago I really believed I would wake up to an independent Scotland where the people who live and work in this beautiful and resource rich country would be responsible for the running of it. Just imagine if we had secured this future. We will yet.
Hope it’s OK to share this rescheduled event.
link to fb.me
Independence can be achieved.
It should have happened through the mandates given to the SNP. That party however has become utterly corrupted, First stalled, then going backwards whilst all the while Westminster removes Hollyrood powers ( the Internal Market Bill), translocates English civil servants into new facilities in Edinburgh, and direct funds Scottish local authorities missing out Hollyrood.
The SNP failed the people of Scotland because a) it was infiltrated b) had pressure put on members such as threats of exposure and c ) because of others becoming complacent on the payroll.
Although it is truly unfortunate what has happened it is by no means the end. What has happened is because of absolutely huge colonial interference. That is what England does. It built an Empire through it. But it lost one too.
And it will lose Scotland too. The SNP is now a shell and people will abandon it. And that is why a new people’s movement, a liberation movement will win.Decolonisation has happened all over the world. There are international laws. Moreover, many countries remember exactly what English colonisation was all about.
So yes Rev Stu, fully appreciate your unhappy feelings. You put huge effort, and then some, in to pushing the cause. And the referendum result, although it wasn’t what we wanted, it showed that the support was there. Well that support hasn’t gone away. Decolonisation was never easy and the dream, the desire, has not gone away.
Many will never lose hope and although we are not where we should be due to the treachery of the SNP, we are moving forward again.
Keep up the good work Rev Stu. Our day will come.
Pete Wishart says: at 8:21 am
“8 years ago I really believed I would wake up to an independent Scotland where the people who live and work in this beautiful and resource rich country would be responsible for the running of it. Just imagine if we had secured this future.”
Aye, the trouble is imagining we were independent is all we can do with so many lame ass politicians that supposedly want Scotland to return to self-governing status…
As a campaigning tool, whining about policies we don’t want being imposed on us by Governments we didn’t elect, ain’t such a braw idea when we get policies we don’t want imposed on us by
GovernmentsAdministrators of Devolved Powers we actually do elect!It’s hardly a good selling point for a future independent country…
I’m assuming none of the Sturgeon-haters commenting here in support of Stu Campbell’s whiny non-sequiturs was telling Scottish voters to vote SNP 1, alba 2 in May 2021 because they’d have been trying to con Scots into electing a deceitful, backstabbing ("Tractor" - Ed)-to-the-independence-movement as First Minister of Scotland.
Most independence supporters have never even heard of Wings over Scotland and don’t attend AUOB marches because they realise that parading round Scottish cities shouting “now! now! now! with a bunch of extras from Brigadoon2 will not take us a step closer to where we want to be.
Stewart. Why are you posting on Wings if you think it is a waste of time. Sturgeon sang God Save The King! The nationalist leader of Scotland is singing our enemies song. Let that sink in. You are feckin delusional.
“Big Jock”,
This from September 2015.
“It was “infantile” of Jeremy Corbyn not to sing God Save The Queen at a recent memorial service, Alex Salmond has said.
Scotland’s former first minister told the STV news channel that he had always sung the national anthem, whatever his views on it.
“I always did. It was infantile not to”
Pete Wishart says:
“8 years ago I really believed I would wake up to an independent Scotland where the people who live and work in this beautiful and resource rich country would be responsible for the running of it. Just imagine if we had secured this future…”
World Economic Forum (2020): Great Reset:
“…is starting The Great Reset initiative.
…determining the future state of global relations, the direction of national economies, the priorities of societies, the nature of business models and the management of a global commons…
…a new social contract…”:
link to archive.ph
Wikipedia: World Economic Forum:
“…an international non-governmental and lobbying organisation…
The Forum suggests that a globalised world is best managed by a self-selected coalition…
It sees periods of global instability… as windows of opportunity to intensify its program…”
World Economic Forum: Forum Members:
“…selectively sought by the World Economic Forum…
Forum Members are fully integrated into the World Economic Forum vision…”:
link to archive.ph
World Economic Forum (2015): The End of Democracy:
link to archive.ph
World Economic Forum: People:
Nicola Sturgeon: Office of the First Minister of Scotland:
link to weforum.org
Express (22/09/2022): ‘Absolutely shocking’ chart shames Nicola Sturgeon as Scottish life expectancy drops again:
“Nicola Sturgeon has been blasted for the state of the NHS in Scotland as new “absolutely shocking” official figures revealed today show that Scots life expectancy is continuing to drop under her watch. For the third year in a row…”:
link to archive.ph