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GB Snooze

Posted on July 17, 2021 by

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668 to “GB Snooze”

  1. Dave M


  2. Shocked

    This as the endemic and ingrained institutional corruption in Scotland that many of us who have worked in the business sector have known about for years is revealed; where the Scottish government led by the corrupt lying criminal Nicola Sturgeon is shown to be an organisation where all that counts is money and your ability to satisfy Nicola Sturgeon’s endless and psychopathic obsession with power and cynical virtue signalling and dangling of the Indy ref 2 carrot is used as a distraction to keep all eyes away from the truth. Scotland is lost, what an absolute joke of a country.

    Meanwhile the comments will descend into the usual ethno nationalist rantings about who’s Scottish enough to have a say, demented dribblings about sovereignty by people who have not got the first idea and of course the old favourite, blaming the english for everything…

  3. Glenn

    … The libertarians are pissed off with them for allowing the wrong kind of libertarianism. Hilarious, what a bunch of utter grunts!

  4. Robert Louis


    Honestly, I am not sure Andrew Neil even realises it, but the news right wing propaganda channel is like a sketch from Little Britain. You can almost hear the voice over by Tom Baker ‘..did you know, GB news was invented in 1707 by Sir Issac Newton – no, neither did I..’

    GB news is just an epic fail by some neo-fascist money men. It’s like ‘The Day today’ for rich bigots.

    Meanwhile in Sturgeon’s Scotland, Michaal Russell sent an email this week telling SNP members that Westminster wasn’t working for Scotland. The response to which might be, ‘well why has the SNP not done something about it – they are in government after all, with at least six mandates to call an independence referendum?’ It seems The SNP leadership would rather spend their days making up excuse after excuse for not getting Scotland out of the unwanted and wholly undermocratic so-called ‘union’ with England.

    The SNP, the devolutionist party, fighting to keep Scotland under England’s jackboot.

  5. Astonished

    Excellent – I do hope the europeans find a way to shaft these lackeys of our imperial masters.

  6. Doug

    @Shocked 7:28am

    Bless. Wee Shocked is in a bad mood this morning.

    The people of Scotland are sovereign in Scotland. There, that’s sure to cheer him up.

  7. Doug

    Just out of picture on the right is fellow britnat Diane Abbott giving him a foot massage.

    Oh, god, I wish I hadn’t said that! Where’s the boke bag?!

  8. wee monkey

    “Moon howlers” how apt.

    As I join another couple of hundred of skilled staff being disposed off due to the economic fallout of the dangling carrot, if you want evidence of how the sturgeon cabal ( and if you voted for it then you are responsible) has fucked Scotland just compare June’s investment figures between England and Scotland.
    1 investment alone is in the billions pound range, a new battery plant in Northumbria creating 5000 jobs, 3000 permanent….
    In the meantime the best the SNP can come up with is to relocate an entire distillery to fucking China to allow them to produce a “world leading” scotch.. the irony should not be lost on anyone.

    Oh and don’t forget to book your ferry trip a minimum of 4 months in advance or gamble on a standby …..remember snp1/2…

  9. wee monkey

    Oh and I almost forgot, don’t forget after nicolas £1.2 million spend on governmental executive tesla transport some of us are disappointed that they have not been rebadged ZiL and that they do not have their own marked lanes.

    Bit difficult on the new “wee” bridge mind, perhaps a set of red lights
    Would do the trick…

  10. Republicofscotland

    Nice one Chris Brillo aka Neil, and GB news for that matter is nothing but an echo chamber.

    Meanwhile, a friend of Neil, Ruth (I love the Rape Clause) Davidson, finally has her House of lords title, she’s to be known as Baroness Davidson of Lundin Links, apparently the title refers to a small Fife village where Davidson grew up.

    Davidson hasn’t been sworn in yet, but when she is like the other unelected ermine vermin she’ll have a say on Scotland and its future.

  11. Republicofscotland

    Mike Russell is expected to inform the SNP on the movement forward for a new indyref, as far as I’m aware Russell has to have some sort of plan by September yet he’s the only figure working on it, or so we’re told, it just doesn’t seem feasible to me at all.

    The SNP’s NEC has already posted an eight-page leaflet on the website. as we all knew the leaflet first sets out how we should consolidate the argument for indy via the context of Brexit, the pandemic and its impacts.

    I take from that, that a recovery from the pandemic, economically, and the same from Brexit will have to come first long before any indyref.

    Of course we know there is no economic post-Brexit recovery to pre-Brexit levels without access to the EU market, and that can only be obtained via independence.

    So in my opinion the whole exercise is just one big charade, to kick any attempts to pressure Sturgeon into holding one into the long grass.

    She’s sold Scotland out, the treacherous b*stard.

  12. Republicofscotland

    We know that this Holyrood term under Sturgeon the Betrayer won’t lead to an indyref, Sturgeon has hinted that she’ll stand down in 2026, good riddance I say.

    Anyway Angus B. MacNeil has come out and said that the 2026 Scottish elections MUST be a plebiscite on indy via a indyref, McNeil sent a letter to Johnson requesting the S30 only to be turned down, still its more than the Betrayer of Scots, Sturgeon did.

    I was thinking 2026 surely with Sturgeon gone, and hopefully Murrell as well, though I’ll be voting for the Alba party from now on, surely that gives us enough time to organise and protest for a indyref to be held in 2026. (SIM) or/and (AUOB) would have plenty of time from now until then to focus on it during their marches pro-indy politicians, apart from the trans obsessed Greens and most of the gutless SNP MSPs/MPs could also mention it in paper columns or interviews. Getting the idea into peoples minds that it will happen come 2026 is the goal.

  13. Republicofscotland

    Oh Christ Mike Russell has another column in the National newspaper today and instead of focusing on what matter in Scotland, and his remit of providing solid info on an indyref, he’s written the whole column of Tories bad, and the how some of England’s football fans were bad after the Euro final.

    Talking about head turning and finger pointing, we see you Russell for what you really are.

  14. Linda McFarlane

    Thanks for that Chris – made me chuckle.

  15. John Jones

    It’s amazing how, when people become “famous” they develope an urge to come from somewhere posh, not like Methil or Buckhaven,
    I know of another who now says he belongs to St. Andrews!

  16. Scot Finlayson

    The problem with GB News is that we already have a unionist right wing Great Brutish misinformation and propoganda channel,

    you don`t open a small grocers next to a 24hr Tesco superstore.

    The one positive about GB News is they are not captivated by the transcult the woke and and all their misogynistic handmaidens.

  17. stonefree

    ” the title refers to a small Fife village where Davidson grew up.”
    And so condemns the Vilage forever.

    She passed on “buffallo Links” then?

  18. Republicofscotland

    A couple of interesting points, one he’s often criticised and rightly so, but Hungarian leader Viktor Orban has banned any LGBTI+ education in schools. whereas in Scotland we have a drag queen taken into primary schools which must confuse small children, into the bargain the drag queen, had lurid pictures on his social media account.

    Secondly, a Dutch company (Shell) and a Spanish company (Scottish Power) are to build one of the largest wind farms off the coast of Scotland, will our electricity costs in Scotland fall when it goes live, two, will the wind farm structures be built in Scotland, and three do the royals receive a fair chunk of cash due to the huge wind farms being built on Crown Estates water, as the English queen claims rights to Scottish water, above her consent to allow 6,000 sq miles of Scottish waters to have been stolen already.

  19. wee monkey


    “England plans biggest winter flu vaccine rollout”

    Considering that [and despite of what was OFFICIALLY SAID] both my wife [carer] and myself [“at risk”] had to literally stand at GP’s office desk and DEMAND they supply vaccination in line with government policy, I somehow think we in Scotland are in for a really BAD winter..where IS Covid Jane these days…

  20. wee monkey

    Quote :- “Crown Estates water, as the English queen claims rights to Scottish water, above her consent to allow 6,000 sq miles of Scottish waters to have been stolen already.”

    More lies and deception from a moon howler

    There is no such thing as “crown estates water” the crown foreshore itself being handed over to SNH ( now natureScotland) by scot gov years ago.

    On an increasingly busy seabed, we work closely with industry and stakeholders to help ensure the waters of England, Wales and Northern Ireland continue to be a brilliant place to invest. We also manage around half of the foreshore surrounding these areas.

    Is it because the moons out during daylight or something??

  21. robertknight

    I confess it took me a minute to recognise the old ‘House Jock’. It was the absence of the rusty Brillo Pad that threw me.

  22. Grouse Beater

    Ha ha! Well done, Chris.

    Did you notice Sir Brillo of Paisley had removed himself from the firing line a week ago? Wee investor meetings behind the scenes? Something is definitely up or going down at GB News.

    Here’s how Barbardos grabbed its independence and is soon to become a republic – all achieved *without* a referendum.

    Your essential weekend reading:

    ‘The Republic of Barbados’

  23. Republicofscotland

    wee monkey @11.40am.

    “The seabed to 12 nautical miles is largely owned by the Crown and managed on its behalf by the Crown Estate Commissioners as is much of the foreshore. The remainder is in a mixture of public and private ownership.”,in%20a%20mixture%20of%20public%20and%20private%20ownership.

    On the stolen 6,000sq miles of Scottish waters.

  24. Republicofscotland

    On Barbados, I’m all for calling back our MPs from Westminster and holding a vote at Holyrood and if the MSPs/MPs vote yes to independence declare it there and then.

    Westminster shouldn’t have any say whatsoever on it, it s a foreign country with its own government, once we’ve declared independence, we begin negotiations with Westminster to ditch this rancid union for good.

    As most of the public had already elected the person they want to represent them on May 6th, their interests will have been catered for in the vote, its as simple as that.

    The big stumbling block is Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots and EU citizens, she isn’t interested in doing anything to gain Scottish independence, so unless we can remove her and replace her with a real pro-indy FM with courage, then nothing will happen on the indyfront.

    Alex Salmond has hinted that this is the way forward, its a pity we have a gutless sniveling wee lying shit in Bute house instead of him.

  25. Willie

    Yes Robert Louis I read the Michael Russell letter sent to members telling them how Westminster isn’t working for Scotland.

    Has this bumptious bastard only just woken up to that. My the boy has certainly got a brain working that out.

    But better still, in equally accurately, brain box Russell could have said SNP MPs aren’t working for Scotland. Majority after majority of SNP MP and what do they do. The Feeble Fifty of yesteryear don’t have a look in compared to the troughers that we’ve got. They do nothing, deliver zilch.

    My own MP some years back on his election declared that he would work tirelessly for independence and would only be down there until it was secured. That was in 2015 when the SNP got 56 out of 59 seats – and he’s been working tirelessly since then ( ha ha – not )

    Crikey, one of them also wanted to be the Speaker of the House of Commons.

    Ah well no doubt we can expect more bullshit from the Bumptious Balloon that is our President Michael Russell.

  26. Tinto Chiel

    If only the British State were lying down on the job, Chris.

    Unfortunately, it’s just passed the Covert Human Intelligence Act, which indemnifies a huge number of state “actors” like the police, army, intelligence services and many others from criminal prosecution for acts carried out in the execution of their duties.

    Next up will be the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill which, among many other nasties, will be used by the state to prevent demonstrations and other expressions of dissent.

    Then there is Online Safety Bill which, supposedly intended to thwart terrorism and child sex abuse (for which plenty of legislation has already been passed), will be used to shut down any website or platfom disseminating opinions the government doesn’t like, like this one for example.

    The cherry on the authoritarian cake will be The Counter State Threats Bill, which will criminalise whistle-blowers and any journalist who publicises their revelations.

    All these assaults on our freedom are of course being carried out nice and quietly during the Covid crisis, while the First Minister says she can do nothing about anything until Covid and its consequences are sorted out completely.

    Very soon it will be too late for those who wish to live in a free and open society and our nation of unsuspecting wee lobsters will discover that the nicely-warming water is not what it seems to be…….

  27. Ian Brotherhood

    Alba calling for all high school pupils to be offered the jag before schools go back in August?

    This is kamikaze politics. They have no say in what happens anyway, so why indulge in such posturing?

    Haven’t even received my membership card yet, but if they don’t do a u-turn, rapidly, it’ll be going straight from the letterbox to the bin.

  28. James Barr Gardner

    Flu jabs and booster covids aside, at present there is also a one of pneumococcal jab for the over 65’s, this should be 60’s and over. In addition there is a one of jab for the over 70’s for the shingles, this should be 65 !

  29. Dan

    @ Ian B

    Aye, clocked that yesterday.

    Younger folk are less likely to suffer bad symptoms if they encounter the bug.
    One thing I have been wondering is that with this new sterile like way of existing with exposure to everything being restricted, will this impact the development of folk’s adaptive immune systems to deal with all manner of other bugs.
    If it does then of course that is a further bonus for the pharma and health businesses, as folk with less robust immune systems will require treatment, whereas folk with stronger immune systems would be able to fight off ailments themselves.

  30. Ian

    Here’s a bit of light reading about our neighbours as others are increasingly seeing them and with more than a few home truths.

    They could have added the question of why the Italians don’t go on and on about the Roman Empire – it’s because they choose to live in the 21st century.

    Warning : the first photo may harm those of a sensitive nature.

  31. Gary45%

    He’s talking to himself and still not listening.
    Cracking “Toon” Chris.
    Jimbo O’Brien from LBC sums up the channel.

  32. John Main


    “Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots and EU citizens”

    You are in error there Republic.

    No rationally thinking Scot ever voted for Sturgeon or anybody else at Hollyrood to represent or in any way advance the prospects of EU citizens within Scotland.

    So it is not possible for EU citizens to have been betrayed.

  33. Ruby

    Re article

    “Why it seems like everyone hates the English abroad”

    “The global outrage was palpable — these England fans behaved appallingly, thank goodness Italy won.
    It’s an extreme version of the same story that plays out wherever the English go en masse on vacation.”

    Spot on! Holiday makers from England and English football fans behave in a similar manner.

    The thing about insisting on ‘English’ food is weird considering these football fans and holiday makers from England will be eating curry, kebabs, pizza, Chinese food, French food & a whole variety of foreign food.

    Something very strange happens to the holiday makers from England & England football fans as soon as they set foot in Spain or at a football match.

    It as if they switch off their brains!

    I don’t have enough experience of holiday makers from Scotland to comment on their behaviour. I have never come across anyone from Scotland insisting on ‘Scottish Food’ while in Spain. Or anyone who has absolutely no interest in the history, culture, language, people of the part of the world they are visiting.

    I have never seen such scary behaviour as I saw in London last week-end. I don’t know much about football, Scotland fans could be just as bad just as crazy.

  34. Republicofscotland

    John Main.

    Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots and EU citizens failed to hold an indyref after Brexit, even though she knew the consequences of Brexit on EU citizens, never mind the detrimental effects of it on Scots.

    Alex Salmond left Sturgeon on a 45% all she needed was 6% swing and Brexit easily gave her that, but she decided to try and save England from Brexit instead of saving Scots and EU citizens from the affects of it.

  35. Andy Ellis

    @Ian B 4.22 pm

    There hasn’t even been a party conference yet, and you’re already going to bin your membership card because the (presumably?) interim party leadership have called for something entirely reasonable which the vast majority of the public and probably Alb members probably support, but you want them to endorse your (let’s put it charitably…) niche anti-vax views?

    Surely if your so confident of the validity of your woo-woo you’d be arguing the case to have the policy changed and see that Alba goes in to full moon howler mode? Sounds like an electoral cul-de-sac and a recipe for remaining on a few % support to most folk I reckon….?

  36. Hatuey

    TBH I too would prefer Alba didn’t comment on stuff like that. It serves no purpose. I think they should concentrate on Indy and Indy alone.

    Despite the assumptions of some on here who don’t bother asking your opinion, preferring instead to tell you your opinion, I have doubts about vaccinating kids. I’ve had doubts about that from the start.

    The data and science don’t combine to make a compelling enough case for vaccinating kids, not yet anyway — not on the basis of the current variants.

    If, as forecast, we are going to see a 95% uptake of the vaccine amongst adults in the UK, that should be enough to break the back of the pandemic and help get us back to something very close to normal.

  37. Brian Doonthetoon

    Hi Hatuey at 10:11 pm.

    You opined,
    “TBH I too would prefer Alba didn’t comment on stuff like that. It serves no purpose. I think they should concentrate on Indy and Indy alone.”

    I would tend to agree with your sentiments. I left the SNP because of all their ‘niche’ policies – like pro-trans, anti-women, anti-Salmond and hate crime act – being given prominence over being the party to achieve independence.

    Alba, initially, provided an alternative, so I joined. Alba has to keep its eye on the ball of independence.

    Maybe the conference will clarify policy? I hope so.

  38. Ian Brotherhood

    @Andy Ellis (9.41) –

    I have no idea who approved that message from Alba. I seriously doubt it was Alex Salmond, but even if it wasn’t, it betrays a lack of awareness which is truly shocking.

    Corri Wilson’s ‘message’ to Alba members last night was quite good, considering she was working with so little, but the clear emphasis was on asking us, the members, to set about using the knowledge we’ve gained from years of campaigning for ‘other parties’ (very diplomatic!) and just get on with it.

    For a major policy decision of this sort to appear with no consultation of members is nothing short of disgraceful. There’s no way I could set up an Alba stall in the Bridgegate, Irvine, and deal with people asking about this ‘policy’. It is utterly indefensible.

    Alex Salmond made it very clear, not long after Alba was formed, that women’s rights would be a significant plank in policy formation. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why he did that.

    But he has never – ever – expressed any opinion on the lockdown policy and/or vaccination roll-out. That’s why this is so shocking, and will be flatly unacceptable to many Alba members. You may not like it Andy, but the Twitter reaction, thus far anyway, has been angry and disbelieving.

    I will not support a party – any party – that adopts such a position. Period. Alba was meant to offer something fresh, different, and honest. If it can’t bring itself to condemn the proposed ‘vaccination’ of children with a product which has already caused thousands of deaths and seriously adverse reactions, then I want fuck all to do with it.

    Gutted that our cordial exchanges over the years have come to this. Really quite sad, but, hey, we are where we are.

    I wish you well sah, and bid you goodnight!

  39. Hatuey

    “the proposed ‘vaccination’ of children with a product which has already caused thousands of deaths”


  40. Hugh Jarse

    Nice one Chris.
    There’s a series here.
    Flouncing flaneur, the mentalist Oliver waffles for this mob.

  41. Effigy

    Chris, your works are really top quality and will reviewed and revered for many generations to come.

    When Brillo Heid is gone and long forgotten your skills will long endure.

  42. Pixywine

    Alec Salmond has lost me. You cannot subject school children to a dangerous gene therapy experiment. Fuck you Salmond. No more support from this corner. Alba or Alavavaor whatever Its over for those idiots. Salmond is just as corrupt as all politicians.

  43. Pixywine

    Hatstand every time you ask “source”? We know you’re just being a cunt. Tell your bitch Sturgeon she’s going to be arrested for crimes against Humanity.

  44. Pixywine

    By the way folks I’ve been banned of YouTube for my politics. That’s twice now. This is an Evil time were living through. All government agents need hanging.

  45. Pixywine

    I’m sick of jam tomorrow Angus McNeil can go fuck himself. I consider All politicians the enemy.

  46. Pixywine

    Russels an arsehole. He is anti English hypocrite. He also hates that football fans prove there’s no substance to “pandemic” propaganda.

  47. J.o.e

    RE: Alba and vaccinating children

    The fact is the world has changed. We do not even realise how much.

    Even if tomorrow we were to drop everything covid related including vaccines, lockdowns, testing etc and just carried on as before the slow realisation of what happened, and what else was about to take place, would slowly start to register in the minds of even more of the population.

    The conformity and passivity of modern politics will be unacceptible going forward. Any politician who quietly went along with this will be seen as weak and unreliable. That’s almost all of them including Alex Salmond.

    We don’t need fence sitting, platitude filled, passive conformists. We need actual leaders who aren’t afraid to piss people off by sticking to what they consider to be right.

    We certainly dont need tools of an absolutely corrupt establishment.

    Perhaps the time is dawning where we can finally have real leaders because a growing number of people will not stand for the weakness we have had to suffer til now.

  48. Pixywine

    Andy Ellis”niche anti vax” views. You’re such a pudding. There’s a growing resentment among the public at forced vaccinations. It seems part of the trend toward Draconian lawmaking. Grouse eater has touched on the crime bills being slipped in under cover of covid. You are crushingly naive.

  49. Andy Ellis

    @Pixywine 8.43 am

    Says who? Let’s see the evidence of it when and if people take up the offer. This “growing resentment among the public” you assert is happening will presumably manifest itself in some way? Mass protests? People refusing to be vaccinated? Not complying with restrictions…?

    There is definitely one side of this argument that is crushingly naive, and it isn’t those swallowing gulping the anti-vax Kool-Aid by the gallon.

  50. Andy Ellis

    @Hatuey and Briandoonthetoon

    I tend to agree with you both that we don’t necessarily need Alba to take a view on every political issue, particularly at this stage. No doubt they feel they have to, wither because they’ve been asked, or because they’re frightened of looking unprepared or clueless when asked if they have nothing to say….?

    I think a lot of people underestimated the time it would take to “stand up” a new party and get all the ducks in a row: we’re getting there, but when all is said and done the real task of Alba isn’t to have a “rent a mouth” spokesperson pontificating on every issue that they can’t possible have any impact on (as the Liberals and LD’s have done fro decades), but to prepared the ground for fielding candidates at local and Holyrood elections.

    Policies need to be developed showing how Alba is different not just from the SNP but from “everyone else”.

  51. Effigy

    Javid catches Covid, why not, he is in this long chain
    of Tories who tell us how not to catch who then catch it.

    As you are advised every 5 minutes, if you come in contact with someone
    like Javid, you must isolate?

    Well not if you are Bojo!
    The Tory think tank has come up with Bojo taking part in daily testing
    so that he can carry on with essential work like finding sponsors to decorate
    his home, pay for his latest Bastard’s nursery fees and of course selling knighthoods for £500K

    If you happen to be a self employed trades person behind with mortgage payments, and with a sick wife and Children to feed, you must isolate from hone, or the homeless shelter, while Universal Discredit takes a few months to see if you deserve any money for food after 25 years of contributions.

    And England continues to vote Tory I record numbers???

  52. Andy Ellis

    @Ian B 11.24 pm

    Twitter is a relatively small political bubble. Alba twitter even more so I’d suggest. If this is an issue you feel so strongly about, then fair enough. Doubtless there are many (including myself) who could never stay inside a party, or indeed support them, if it espoused the views of a-scientific fringe zoomers like some of those infesting the BTL comments here or pedalling their snake oil elsewhere.

    As for our cordial exchanges, it always to be regretted if folk come to a parting of the ways: such is life. I have acquaintances from all walks of life, with widely varying beliefs. I know folk who have partners or are fast friends with people who have diametrically opposing views on politics, social issues and religion and part of me admires that. I don’t think I can do that though, and I wouldn’t expect anyone else to.

    Just as I could never in good conscience have stayed inside the SNP and campaigned shoulder to shoulder with some of those I saw abusing Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine and espousing views and policies I found intolerable, I could never stay inside Alba if it took positions on important policies I fundamentally disagreed with.

    Perhaps Alba will lose some members like you over this issue: such is life. Ensure Alba changes its policy or go and form your own party with your similarly minded friends.

    It seems the big, bawdy multi-coloured Yes movement of 2014 is no more. Nobody then much cared where people stood on contentious issues, whether NATO membership, multilateralism vs. unilateralism, the monarchy, EU membership, land ownership, the environment.

    It was (supposedly…?) one of the joys of the new civic nationalism that it was a broad church, sheltering the gamut of Scottish society who wanted independence, whether they were Tories for Yes, Orangemen for Yes, Rangers Supporters for Yes, Anarchists for Yes or any other flavour. We kept being reminded that detailed policy could wait until after independence. We were Scots first, and whatever political tribe decidedly second.

    Things have changed and not necessarily for the better. We fluffed our chance in 2014, and may not have a similar one again for some time. It certainly seems evident that if there is an #indyref2 campaign it won’t look much like that of 2012-14 for #indyref1 and maybe that’s no bad thing? I’ll take a more rambunctious, splintered, gloves-off campaign in a heartbeat if it leads to a Yes rather than No vote.

    However, if as seems likely, we aren’t getting #indyref2 anytime soon, perhaps there is something to be said for marshalling our forces behind different pro-indy parties pushing for plebiscitary elections rather an a referendum that never comes?

    I wish you well wherever you find a political home Ian, even if it isn’t in Alba.

  53. Breeks

    It’s a difficult call.

    ALBA is there to pick up the ball when the SNP drops it; on Independence, on Scotland’s Constitution, on women’s rights, on justice, on Scottish currency, etc…. and now on COVID vaccinations. But Jeezus, the SNP drops every ball thrown it’s way. That’s what happens when your hands are stuffed in your pockets.

    Truthfully, I would prefer to see ALBA preoccupied, focussed, and uncompromising on the pursuit of Constitutional Scottish Independence and the path to Scottish Independence as dictated by International Law, – a process which is dispassionate, neutral, and doesn’t have a dog in the race.

    I don’t like the diversification, or petty domestic distractions, but I suppose there’s a degree of necessity for ALBA to say something. Dare I say it, you’re not there to govern us ALBA, you’re the Independence Stormtroopers. Stay focused.

    Yes, a Constitutional route to Indy does go hand in hand with the electoral support of a majority, (but don’t forget, it had one in 2016 before Sturgeon squandered it), but this visionless and frankly stupid SNP strategy of steering Scottish Independence through the vagrancies UK “unwritten conventions” and domestic UK law and where rigged referendum process are tools entirely at the disposal and whim of Westminster, is simply turning off the main metalled road with all it’s sign posts, to take an unnecessary detour through a malignant stagnant swamp which very quickly sees us bogged to the axles. Why? Why? Why?

    The affairs of Nations are administered by International Laws. Scotland is a Nation. It’s people are Constitutionally sovereign. Are these just fkg words to people, divorced of any meaning???

    The SNP knows this. You cannot plead ignorance.

    The SNP debated the Claim of Right in Westminster and had Westminster affirm the Claim of Right remains extant, the people of Scotland are sovereign! Why debate it Westminster at all if the next step in your strategy was to waltz right past it’s fundamental principle? Did some strategist who knew what they were doing suddenly lose their job to a bumbling idiot so shallow and fickle that the Claim of Right means nothing? Did an Independentist lose their job to a Devolutionist?

    Blah Blah Blackford trotted out warning after warning that Scotland could not be removed from Europe against it’s will, but it was all just bluff and bluster. Talk is cheap when it comes from Ian Blackford. The strategic master who ushered the SNP to march out of Westminster without a clue what to do next, so he turned around 180 degrees and marched them back in again. Brilliant. How inspired.


    Answers on a postcard to the “Impeach Nicola Sturgeon and send her to jail” competition.

  54. robbo

    Andy Ellis says

    Orangemen for Yes,

    Erm what? Can you direct me to anything that remotely backs this assertion up?

  55. John Main

    It’s a quiet news day, so I see Covid vaccinations are back on topic.

    What people seem to be unable to comprehend is that the decision on whether to vaccinate or not needs to be taken after consideration of the broad spectrum of factors that influence an individual’s health.

    If you are elderly and/or suffering from a long-term health problem, then you will be in trouble if you catch Covid. You should get vaccinated as the risk of Covid far exceeds the risk of the vaccination.

    The opposite equation applies if you are young, fit and healthy. The chances are very good for you if you catch Covid. Like many people in this category, you may not even know you have it. Why, then, would you want to take the risk (small, but still unquantifiable) from the vaccination?

    And, yes, the risk from vaccination is still unknown. It won’t be known finally until we have a decade or so of long-term results to analyse. Over that decade, those of us who are at high risk from Covid and who have therefore decided to get vaccinated will have had God knows how many shots, as vaccination will have to be a yearly or twice-yearly event, with different formulations as the new, improved Covid variants arrive and spread.

    No rational, healthy 21 YO would commence down that path without some lengthy, difficult, soul searching. To discover at 31 years of age that there ARE long-term adverse effects from the vaccines, and that the affected persons now have maybe 40 years of poor health because of it, would be unconscionable.

    I am elderly so I have been vaccinated. If I were 21, I would be struggling to decide what to do. If I were the parent of children of any age up to 18, I could not in all conscience insist that they be vaccinated. I might just be sentencing them to a life of ill health by doing so.

    So, to sum up. You weigh up the pros and cons. You evaluate the risks of each decision. You make your choice and live with the consequences. You have the grace to extend the same rights and responsibilities to others. It’s called freedom. That’s a concept fans of a pro-Indy blog should really not need to be reminded of.

  56. John Main


    “saving Scots and EU citizens from the affects of [ Brexit ]”

    Sorry Republic, it was wrong the first time you posted it, so simply re-posting it changes nothing, it is still wrong.

    Sturgeon, the SNP, Hollyrood, the Scottish Government, the Scottish Civil Service, etc. etc. are there to serve the people of Scotland, not EU citizens.

  57. Andy Ellis

    @robbo 9.43 am

    It was to an extent tongue in cheek robbo, but there was definitely a twitter handle which purported to be that of an Orangeman who supported the Yes campaign: I remember a few of us back in the day having somewhat incredulous conversations with him and amongst ourselves about it: the individual swore he was genuine however…..!

    I suppose any organisation is bound to have a few contrarians…?

    After all, if there are Tories for Yes….?

  58. Breastplate

    John Main,
    I completely agree and have written as much previously, yet in the eyes of Andy Ellis, you are an anti-vaxxer, an unthinking flat earther who should, er…unthinkingly accept a new vaccine with known and unknown risks.

    It really is illogical to accept something with a risk that outweighs reward.
    Of course, perception is everything but I would suggest those that understand the fears and hopes of both camps would be better positioned to make an informed choice.

  59. Robert Graham

    Question to all the smart arses

    If zillions of people are contracting the plague and the biggest ever vaccine program has almost complete why are cases going up ? ..

    WHY HASN’T THE PLAGUE disappeared ?

    Also given Flu has almost disappeared 2020 saw almost no cases reported ,why the push to stick Chemicals into people to alleviate a problem that’s almost gone away , my that’s belt , braces , and life jacket all in one , your very own mini Hazmat Suit all inside a wee Hypodermic Syringe what could possibly go right eh .

    Take a minute and look at how the story has developed since March 2020 after all the restrictions all the lockups all the business failures what exactly has changed ? .

  60. Andy Ellis

    @ John Main

    The risks of long Covid don’t seem to be that negligible for the under 30’s though do they? The public are notoriously bad at judging scientific advice and statistical probabilities (MMR scare stories anyone…?), so it’d be a surprise if Covid was any different. FWIW – and it’s purely anecdotal I accept – none of the under 30’s I know in my family and/or their broader friendship groups appear to have any hesitation in getting vaccinated with the exception of one who is pregnant.

    I accept that it’s difficult for any parent knowing what to do on behalf of under 18’s. It was much the same back in the day when my daughter was younger: there were regular scare stories about the dangers of MMR vaccines, people who insisted the combined vaccine was dangerous, caused autism etc., etc. In the end every parent has to make the decision whether to go ahead and do it, often in the knowledge that there may be a small % of adverse reactions for certain courses of treatment.

    In the end, most of the people most of the time are going to be guided by mainstream science. A minority will always hold out (there are STILL people no doubt insisting that the discredited link between the MMR vaccine and autism is real).

    Of course the medical establishment is not be infallible, but if the public are presented with a case by the medical establishment that advises vaccination is safe and it is useful and prudent for 18-30 year olds and for under 18’s to be vaccinated, it’s likely that the majority will comply.

    I suppose what gets people exercised are any measures which are seen to require people to take actions they object to, whether it’s to prove their vaccinated status, or wear a face covering, or self isolate, or maintain social distancing. The extent to which society as a whole is comfortable enforcing particular actions will vary, but such choices aren’t novel, we just have to agree as a collective what is appropriate and proportionate given the circumstances.

  61. robertknight

    @R Graham

    “WHY HASN’T THE PLAGUE disappeared ?”

    Because the vaccine, none of them, has a 100% efficacy.

    Having been vaccinated doesn’t make you invincible. Just means you’re less likely to get it, less likely to spread it, and less likely to wind up in hospital or dead if you do get it.

    Besides, I thought this was an Indy site. Duh!

  62. Andy Ellis

    @Breastplate 10.09 am

    Unthinkingly? No. After due consideration like any normal human being would. The fact remains that the vast majority, based on the information presented to them, have and will accept vaccination. A minority will not.

    You obviously feel personally that the potential risks of the vaccine outweigh any immediate benefits (or indeed that there are no benefits, or it’s all a plot by the Chinese / global capitalism / the illuminati / the lizard people…?). Fair enough.

    I don’t advocate compulsory vaccination, because I feel it’s a step too far. Again. like the majority of the population however, I am and would be fairly sanguine about measures which some people might object to or feel infringe their civil liberties. Whether it’s insisting on people proving they are vaccinated before travelling, or working in a care home, or lower level restrictions about self-isolation, track and trace, wearing face coverings, social distancing, restrictions on numbers in social situations etc. are all balancing acts.

    In the end, if the public won’t support them, then doubtless they will be dropped or ignored. It’s a balancing act, and all “ordinary” people can do is listen to the opposing arguments, examine the evidence and see what the outcomes have been. I doubt I’d feel happier if the government had followed the advice of the anti-vax advocates though, nor do I believe that the number of deaths or long Covid cases would be less than they are now.

  63. Hatuey

    Robert Graham, you’re still alive. Rejoice.

    If it wasn’t for the “smart arses”, you’d probably be kicking up the daisies.

    Now, go apply for your vaccine passport and leave the big words to people like me.

  64. JimuckMac

    robertnight…the survival rate from the alleged virus has a higher percentage rate (99.7%) than the jab offers in its efficiency to protect. What is the real purpose of the jab?

  65. Pixywine

    Everyone should watch the video I linked of a Holocaust survivor who is alert to the Fascism running the World. Hatuey need not bother.

  66. Pixywine

    Andy. Because of your tendency to insult anyone who disagrees with you Government can manipulate your thinking and get you on board with their program.
    The idiot Mike Russel thinks it’s alright to castigate Tory Government while he is in total ” Lockstep” with them.”Locjsrep” comes from “Sustainable development”. The Evil ones use euphimistic language to disguise their true intentions.
    Not “lizard people” Andy but billionaire industrialists like Clause Schwab and bankers. Also the Military Industrial Complex. Your education is wasted on you and I probably paid for that through my taxes.

  67. Pixywine

    Hatstand. Why don’t you come to my door with Gates injection and see where you end up.

  68. Pixywine

    If any agents of the State cone my door with a syringe I’ll be saying No to them. If they insist I’ll punch their fucking lights out no matter the consequence to me. Our Governments are waging undeclared war against us. I would advise anyone who agrees with me to get together organise and, seriously, get ready to fight.

  69. James Che.

    The Problem In Alba.

    When I look at the SNP since 2014, I am looking at the Labour Party,

    When Alba started up, they left the SNP in quick droves to join. The infiltration of snp labour into Alba has had an early start,

    Labour did not disappear in Scotland, it just changed its overcoat.

    Sooner or later we are going to wake up and realise that all political parties in Scotland are deliberately knobbled from the inside to prevent any momentum in independence.
    We are also seeing a large influx of English financed residential moves to Scotland this past year. And advertisements to holiday in Scotland by English based newspapers during
    The councils for a long period have been favouring work placements to English employees, you can hardly find a Scots voice in our local council except if they are Tory, labour or new labour(snp)
    Without doubt there will need to be some changes in how we think on the right to vote in any of our elections, ( 10 years residency is a must).

    We will also have to rethink do we use an Scottish infiltrated political party to try gain independence, ( which is hitting our heads against a brick wall) or do we do this ourselves.

    If we repeat what we have always done in the past, rely on political parties , we can expect the same results.

    I can see us waiting for change by using a plebiscite in the next election, which is what the politicians want, [Can Kicking ], has become a serious qualification for any aspiring Scottish politician since 2014.

  70. Republicofscotland

    Supermarket shelves empty, and what’s left is poor quality as Brexit begins to bite.

    Of course it was the Tories that brought Brexit about, but Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots and EU citizens, did nothing to save Scots and their businesses from the misery of Brexit, instead she focused on saving a foreign country from Brexit, whist independence would’ve allowed Scotland to access the EU market easier than it does now.

  71. Republicofscotland

    As the Labour branch office in Scotland looks set to team up with the Lib/Dem branch office in Scotland to woo Scottish voters, it turns out that a majority of UK Labour members support Scotland having a second indyref.

    Of course this info will be completely ignored by the Labour’s branch manager Anas Sarwar in Scotland, because Sarwar isn’t interested in democracy only power.

  72. Pixywine

    Government is banning anyone on YouTube who argues against the government, sustainable development narrative even small fry commenter like me. I have never witnessed or experienced such frenzied censorship. The Government must have something to hide.
    To all hypnotized programmed propogated idiots you’re not fit enough or intelligent enough to run your own country.
    There’s uprising in South Africa because of insans covid restrictions. The people of France are rising up even the English are catching on. There are demonstrations all over Europe against lockdowns and Fascism but its never reported in the mainstream news because they don’t want idiots like Hatuey and Andy Ellis to wake up.
    Sooner or later you’ll have no choice but to agree with me.

  73. Republicofscotland

    From Rob Brown’s latest post its a real eye opener.

    “In an address she delivered at Strathclyde University in 2012, Ms Sturgeon” said she had “never doubted that Scotland is a nation” but – and it was a big but…”

    “The fact of nationhood or Scottish identity is not the motive force for independence. Nor do I believe that independence, however desirable, is essential for the preservation of our distinctive Scottish identity.”

  74. James Che.


    Labour and new labour SNP along with libs agree to a Scottish indyref but the sword is hidden in under the new disguise,
    During this indyref you will find a new constitution whereby for the first time in hundreds of years, the sovereignty of the Scottish people will be thwarted to a new Scottish Parliament.
    I remember Mr Stevenson, snp speaking about this in 1017.

  75. James Che.

    Correction, 2017.

  76. Pixywine

    Andy Ellis. I post links as evidence if you haven’t watched them you’re not interested in evidence. You’re waiting for a Government minister to tell you it’s OK for you to go out to play. You child.

  77. Andy Ellis

    @James Che 10.56 am

    Just sounds like more of the same nativism discussed earlier re-hashed.

    If Alba ends up being captured by new-Labour types the way the SNP has been, then it will have failed. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating surely? Those of us who joined haven’t even had our membership cards and welcome pack yet.

    One thing is for sure, those who are joining after leaving the SNP in disgust at the way it has been hollowed out by TRA extremists, new-Labour has beens and devolutionist troughers are not going to stand idly by and let Alba be fashioned in the same image. A good enough pointer for future direction is to look at what the SNP has done and do the opposite.

    If you’re writing off all political parties – including it seems strangling Alba more or less at birth – how do you suggest independence is going to be achieved? Mass uprising? Revolution?

    I’m all for not putting all our eggs in one basket and advocating plebiscitary elections. Since we aren’t getting a referendum soon, it might even work. The SNP is going to have to throw some red meat to the ordinary party members when they realise the promised #indyref2 just isn’t going to happen.

    Changing the franchise for all elections is a non starter: none of the parties support it, so we can safely forget about that as an idea. It would be possible to make a case for a reasonable residence criteria for a specific independence referendum electoral register, but 5 years is a much more likely qualification period (for information, the average length of time required for naturalisation of new citizens in the EU is just under 7 years, but the range is from 3 years to 10 years with the largest number opting for 5 years).

    If we can’t achieve >50% of the whole “demos” voting for independence in either a referendum or plebiscitary election it’s not worth having. Aiming for > 90% turnout and convincing both more “native born” Scots and “new Scots” should be the focus of our efforts, not deciding which parts of the demos to exclude because they’re not “really” Scottish.

  78. Pixywine

    Andy. Salmond is buying into the Great Reset. I can assume he lives remote from ordinary life. He has lost me completely. The next time his political enemies come for him he can go hand as far as I’m concerned. This is no time to be beholden to that fools “dream”.

  79. Fred

    ‘Just means you’re less likely to get it,’

    Robertknight – that’s not true, no scientist has ever professionally committed to that – but you believe it due to the sophistry at play and the way it’s heavily ‘implied’ by people, corporations and governments who’s agenda is to get you to believe that statement.

    Any virus that you are vaccinated against you are just as likely ‘catch’ just as much as the next person; however, the crucial difference is that your immune response to the virus will be stronger- that’s it.
    The statement should read something like ‘a person is less likely show symptoms’ – which is definitely not the same as ‘less likely to get it’ – it’s just all subtle clever word play that’s designed to sink deep into the human psyche and form an entrenched belief about how, in this case, a vaccine works.

  80. Pixywine

    Hang not hand. Really pissed off with shit technology.

  81. Hatuey

    Pixy, stop trying to personalise this. When the time comes you’ll queue and beg for the vaccine, and we won’t be bringing it to your door.

    On Marr today they hinted at the bleak future the unvaccinated face…

    On one hand the disease will be running freely through the unvaccinated population, hammering down on them with a force we haven’t so far seen in the UK (thanks to the mitigations you scoffed at).

    On the other hand, the unvaccinated will be excluded from major aspects of social interaction and commerce. I’ll be surprised if they’re even allowed to order stuff online.

    Being unvaccinated will be understood to mean diseased and nobody will want to be anywhere near them.

    If there’s a silver lining here for the unvaccinated, it’s that limits on the number of people allowed to attend their funerals will be lifted. That’s it.

  82. Hugh Jarse

    Fascist shill ^

  83. Andy Ellis

    @Pixywine 11.26 am

    I don’t need to read anti-vaxxer screeds provided by an abusive, anonymous on-line troll for much the same reason I don’t need to read apologias provided by those assuring me that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are real, or that the moon landings were fake, or that Donald Trump really won the Presidential election last November.

    The plural of anecdote is not evidence. I wouldn’t use the new Queensferry Crossing if the vast majority of professional engineers and the government advised me it was in imminent danger of collapse. I wouldn’t have to, or feel the need to, exhaustively read and debunk all the information produced by the few per cent of refuseniks who assured me it was actually quite safe.

    You and your ilk don’t have a case, just a grab bag of prejudices and misinformation. You’re the dyed in the wool sub Q-Anon Trumpists here; the rhetorical equivalent of Jake Agneli strutting around bare chested with a buffalo horn headress.

  84. Fred

    ‘ Being unvaccinated will be understood to mean diseased and nobody will want to be anywhere near them.’
    That’s exactly right Hatuey – you’re clever enough to know that’s not true, and you’ve got your own opinion on this which I don’t agree with but respect; however, yes – the self righteous general public will lap that up just as they’ve done many times before in human history.

  85. James Che.

    Andy Ellis.
    I could have predicted your response, I actually should have included it in the piece I wrote to save time, along with hatueys SS style speech,
    Wispy dreams of a perfect political party standing up for Scotland is just that, or a Scottish political party retaining its inferiority in sovereignty to the people of Scotland? Pipe dreams.

    Hatuey I do not need your world of scare mongering and terrorist indoctrination.

  86. Andy Ellis

    @James Che 11.49 am

    I notice you didn’t answer the questions though…?

    What’s your alternative.

    We’re all ears.

    Or of course you could just continue to sit in your cage throwing your own shit around in inchoate rage. It seems about the level of you and most of the moon howlers lapping what passes for your arguments up.

  87. Pixywine

    Andy. The “broad church” you speak off is only evident in anti lockdown protests. There you will see people from all walks of life all political persuasions religions and genders. A truly eclectic cross section of society has united against Fascist dictat in a natural spontaneous way. And yet they are written off as right wing conspiracy theorists. People like me, Ian, J.o.e.Fred Robert Grahame have been proved consistently correct by the actions of Governments. Prepare for your winter lockdown. You Government agents have been proved wrong. I know trying to convince you is a waste of time but every time you make specious arguments or insult Governments detractors you’re probably bringing some of the readership on board with my thinking not the thinking the Government has programmed you with.
    You have no outlets other than MSM and your echo chamber social media where everyone is perfectly on message. There are opinions posted on here by people I consider comrades in this fight that I don’t agree with but that’s incidental to the greater good which is stand up and resist this world wide Tyranny we are facing now. People who unite under Liberty are my comrades even though we’ll never meet we have a common goal. We cannot run so we have to stand and fight.

  88. James Che.

    David Cameron admitted he was a Zionist by religion on a television interview.

  89. Andy Ellis

    @Pixywine 11.30 am

    I’m sure Alex will be devastated.*

    *where devastated = vastly relieved not to have the support of a moon howling abusive troll.

  90. Andy Ellis

    @Pixywine 11.56 am

    The anti-lockdown protests don’t command widespread support. The government has consistently gotten things wrong whether by not acting quickly or decisively enough to initiate lockdowns at the start of the pandemic, or by lifting restrictions too ealy later on.

    Thousands have died needlessly because of the abject failure of the UK and Scottish governments to act appropriately. Other countries have performed much better than ours. None of them have done so by following the kind of policies you and your mates are advocating which would have considerably increased the death toll.

    You’re beyond reason, but yluckily ou don’t command any support and even less respect whether political or empirical.

  91. Pixywine

    Andy. Your conflating me with all your Government talking points. So I have to recite the I believe everything creed before I’m allowed to make a political argument.?. Of course the Moon Landings are real you fucking idiot. Stop trying to lay that shit on people who disagree with you. You’re dishonest when you argue like that. You never really address any of the issues raised by skeptics about government policies you just tell us we are crazy that we don’t believe in science that the moo is cheese and whatever other security service insults you can bandy while avoiding the Fascist jack boot wedged firmly up your arse. You’re an idiot who wastes to many waffly words to say nothing.

  92. Pixywine

    I wouldn’t pay tuppence for a dodgy Scottish degree.

  93. James

    Pixywine says:
    18 July, 2021 at 8:32 am
    “Russels an arsehole. He is anti English hypocrite”.

    Away and lie in your pish ya zoomer. Russell was born in Bromley, Kent to an English mother and a Scottish father.

  94. Hatuey

    “We cannot run so we have to stand and fight.”

    Fight for the right to die? Good luck with that.

    Anyway, protests and fighting won’t be allowed without a vaccine passport.

  95. Pixywine

    Andy I don’t want to patronise you but I feel I must you see the PCR test as you know, is not a diagnostic test. It’s being used to deliver the “positive” results the Governments desire in order to flim flam everyone into believing in “cases” when they are not cases. You must know that’s a bogus spurious use of the technology. Dr Cary Mullis who received a Nobel Peace Prise for inventing the technology specifically categorically said the PCR test is NOT A DIAGNOSTIC TEST.
    The PCR is the fulcrum of the Fascists power over us and its blatant bullshit.
    Andy. You’re up to no good.

  96. Hugh Jarse

    Verboten ^

  97. Pixywine

    Hatstand. Everyone has to die sometime. I will die with a sword in my hand. Fuck you and fuck Sturgeon

  98. Pixywine

    Robert Knight. If the “vaccine”, which is actually a gene therapy experiment, is so all singing all dancing wonderful why does it matter if I don’t take it?

  99. Pixywine

    Andy. “All ordinary people can do is listen to the opposing arguments”. It would be nice if the opposing arguments got anywhere near the same airtime the government gets on the news and besides you’re not interested in opposing arguments as your default setting kicks in with insults and scorn.
    Another educated fool.

  100. Andy Ellis

    @Pixywine 12.16 pm

    What form of “no good” is it you assert I’m up to exactly?

    Examining the arguments (such as they are) being forwarded by you and your mates, pointing and laughing doesn’t make me a vehicle of government talking points. I’ve already pointed out I’m sceptical about government policy and they way they’ve handled the pandemic, but not because they’ve been listening to fringe, a-scientific anti-vaxxers. Generally they have failed (frequently disastrously) to act in ways advocated by scientists and experts.

    Many of the measures they should have taken are ones you and your mates would doubtless have opposed, just as most of you are now loudly opposing vaccine roll out, or keeping restrictions in place for longer. It’s you and your ilk that are on the side of the right wing Tory nutters advocating the prioritising the economy over public health and caricaturing those pointing out your stupidity as under the jack boot and shills of “the man”.

    If you weren’t so transparent you’d be amusing. As it is you’re just a tiresome fringe nutter pedalling your Q-Anonesque talking points to a largely uninterested public.

  101. Effigy

    I found stats that shows the real U.K. Covid death rate to be in excess of 150,000.

    Deaths from covid-19 in England and Wales dipped to their lowest in 20 weeks in the first week of August, latest figures from the Office of National Statistics (ONS) show. Of the deaths registered, 152 (1.7%) mentioned covid-19—down from 193 the previous week.

    So where are we now that Bojo’s circus tell us it’s over?
    The new cases and death rates are higher this week than
    the week in August when we celebrated that the trend was dropping
    to levels that encouraged defeat of the virus was near.

    What brain cell outside of Westminster thinks the right not to wear masks, the ending of furlough
    payments and permissions to return to mass gatherings everywhere will see the contamination’s
    and death rates fall?

    We are all supposed to forget the prolonged abject failure of the Tories to manage the Covid Crisis because the NHS have done so well in administering vaccinations?

    Well why is it New Zealand’s example of closing their borders when obvious to do so was never headed?
    Why has Israel vaccinated their nation quicker?
    Why has Germany with a population 15 million greater vaccinated more citizens and who have
    lower infection and death rates?
    Why has the U.K. had more Covid deaths than any other European nation?

    The success the Tories have had is in filling their own pockets and their donors.

    They are crippling the NHS as planned by exponentially growing the shortage of
    Doctors and Nurses with wage cuts and over work.

    Soon there will be even more Heath contracts handed out to the private sector
    and they will be sold on again with vast profits to the American Corporations who
    don’t deal in morality or compassion.

    First vital sign to establish is the limit on their credit card.

    The future is blight, the future is English Tory!

  102. John Main

    Andy Ellis

    Thank you for your reasonable, considered and nuanced reply.

    I really thought this morning that Covid is too important for point scoring, so I wrote what I believe.

    Those who want to split society into the saved, privileged, vaccinated elect and the unclean, diseased underclass will never explain why, given their supposedly safe vaccinated status, they so fear coming into contact with someone who is unvaccinated.

    Just as those who claim they were always happy to get vaccinated in the past, never ever used to still refuse to go out and about because there were unvaccinated threats out there somewhere, lying in wait to strike them down.

    Vaccinated and unvaccinated will still catch and spread Covid. Some of each category will become ill, very ill, and die.

    If or when a new Covid strain comes along, then if it is significantly more fatal or infectious than the current best strains, then the Covid/vaccination risk trade-off will change. But until a strain develops that is 100% fatal, there will always be somebody somewhere for whom the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. If there are some who want to remove those people’s human rights from them, then that’s a very sad development.

    It’s the real world, it’s messy and complicated and ultimately fatal for all, and it can’t be managed or controlled by shouting insults at each other.

  103. James Che.

    Andy Ellis,
    Actually I was posting leaflets for Alba and chatting with Alex Salmond, what have you been doing to forward independence in the last ten years.

  104. Breeks


    If I wanted to hear so much shite about COVID when it’s far more important to be talking about Independence, I’d have given myself a frontal lobotomy and tuned in to listen to one Sturgeon the Betrayer’s joyless briefings.

    Can you not take COVID discussions to off topic or somewhere else? Anywhere else.

    Fair enough, it fascinates you. I get that, no criticism intended, but this meant to be Scottish Independence site.

  105. John Main


    You make some good points in your usual OTT style.

    But I do wonder. Why is none of your white-hot anger ever directed at those who gave Covid to the world?

  106. Dan

    Andy Ellis says: at 11:26 am

    Changing the franchise for all elections is a non starter: none of the parties support it, so we can safely forget about that as an idea. It would be possible to make a case for a reasonable residence criteria for a specific independence referendum electoral register, but 5 years is a much more likely qualification period (for information, the average length of time required for naturalisation of new citizens in the EU is just under 7 years, but the range is from 3 years to 10 years with the largest number opting for 5 years).

    Justified discussion on a duration of residence before being eligible to vote is what some have been trying to do, but most attempts have been shut down or ignored by folk attempting to blanket cover any discussion as blood and soil like or nativism. 😉

    Who are you to say and what is your justification for stating 5 years is acceptable when you also state there is a range of 3 to 10 years for residency qualification.
    Why should we just meekly take a low average of those figures when Scotland’s complex situation in terms of population growth disparity within the union, and flow of internal migration from our partner in this union has considerably impacted us over the course of the union.
    That surely warrants consideration. Along with the fact that Westminster consistently utilities franchises that serve the interests of establishment power.

    I asked on the last thread but got no response. Maybe the folk shutting down chat by constantly highlighting the negative of disenfranchising folk can tell me why someone should instantly be enfranchised to vote on the future of a country when they have:
    Just arrived here.
    Have paid little if any taxes or contribution in work to the betterment of our society
    May only be here temporarily so long term commitment is undetermined.
    Have the ability to return to their homeland should life here become shit.
    Have no clue on the historical and structural political mire Scotland has and is enduring.
    Barely understand or speak the language so little chance of getting up the curve on the complex issues a vote would involve.

    If you want to win over previous soft No voters then these are just some of the aspects that concern them.
    I’ve got pals that run businesses and they have to adhere to and pay for all sorts of tax, licensing, regulations, and insurances to operate.
    This means their hourly rate has to cover those outgoings. They aren’t particularly chuffed to see folk just rock up and set up doing similar work out of a basic shed undercutting the legitimately run business because they ignore paying the costs and meeting the standards a properly run business has to.

  107. James Che.

    Andy Ellis.
    Two points of view other than the narrow one you seem to be promoting, that all those who do not take the vaccine crazy anti vaxxers.
    There are those with leukaemia, including children, those with cancers including children, those with aneurysm, stroke patients, heart attacks, liver and organ problems like myself that a vaccine could be fatal for, as our bodies are either not capable of taking excessive chemicals or are contradictory to medicines we are already on,
    If your are for vaccines to become mandatory for these ill people including children, are you saying it serves them right if they die, or suggesting eliminating the weak in favour for saving your self.
    Are you suggesting eugenics. Where the weak have no rights to live, are you suggesting locking these people up out of sight and so as to protect harm to yourself.
    Some of these people have suffered long and hard illnesses through no fault of their own, including children., are we all to be hidden or killed of by forcing chemicals into our bodies because you want us to, that is eugenics.

    Point two. You say you want independence for the Scottish people and the people who live in Scotland, I have doubts about you,re sincerity, if you ignore the recognised legal position that THE SCOTTISH PEOPLE ( not the Scottish devolved Parliament) ARE SOVEREIGN.
    With this sovereignty comes the right to say NO to enforcement of chemicals injected into our bodies against our will or beliefs.
    However if any sovereign Scot wishes to have chemicals injected into their bodies that is their sovereign choice in Scotland as a sovereign Scot.
    Enough of thinking that the snp are sovereign or the Scottish government are, WE the People Hold THAT SOVEREIGNTY

  108. stuart mctavish

    @Ian B
    Gold standard on liberty is/was US constitution, so maybe Alba forcing debate on whether faith based science falls within a breach of its first amendment is as good a place as any for them to defibrillate work on a contemporary Scottish one.

    Well worth giving them the opportunity to do so.

  109. James Che.

    I understand how you personally feel about vaccines, but if independence is important to you just as much,
    The sovereign Scot and the inter linking of enforced vaccines by a devolved government or English government can not be overlooked, as it aspires to redirect sovereignty to governments away from the people.

  110. Fred

    Breeks says:
    ‘Can you not take COVID discussions to off topic or somewhere else? Anywhere else.’

    I get your point Breeks, and i hold my hands up but it’s the political aspect of it that’s hard to escape from. Sturgeon, in particular, has become intoxicated with the authoratitive new style of leadership that other countries have adopted and has lost all sense of reality. Because of this we now live in a country that steadily continues to reduce the power and the agency of its people.
    If we do get a referendum in the next year or two – and we win, then that is exactly what we’re signing up to.

  111. Ron Maclean


    In 1960 the UN ratified the Decolonisation Resolution. Scotland was not classed as a colony because it was incorporated in Great Britain by the Act of Union 1707. Ireland was given colonial status although it also had been part of the United Kingdom. (Baird, 2020).

    Colonialism can be defined as: ‘the policy or practice of acquiring full or partial control over another country, occupying it with settlers and exploiting it economically.’ (Baird, 2017).

    ‘Settlers and Colonists’, aka ‘invaders’, was the title of a 2012 essay by Alasdair Gray. Colonists are characterised by their refusal to engage fully with Scotland, accompanied by a demonstrable aversion to promoting indigenous Scottish art: Settlers by their long-term commitment to Scotland and an eagerness to stimulate growth among Scottish artists. This essay attracted some criticism mostly from unionists or unionist media – not themselves well known for their internationalist outlook, tolerance and lack of bigotry or racism.

    A third group ‘Natives’ play an important part in maintaining a colony. ‘The European élite undertook to manufacture a native élite.’ and ‘After a short stay in the mother country they were sent home, whitewashed.’ Sartre,1963. The native élite (Scotland’s Government, Justice System, Unionists etc) ensure co-operation with Westminster rule. For example, acceptance of Brexit, Covid precautions, prosecution of dissenters and so on.

    That makes it difficult to accuse the English of colonising Scotland. They don’t need to, submissive Scots do it for them.

    Sovereignty, a much cherished belief in Scotland, cannot exist in a colonised nation. Holyrood, the seat of devolved government in Scotland, is not sovereign – proscribed through the Scotland Act. That is accepted by the Scottish government who, for example, won’t hold an independence referendum without the agreement and permission of Westminster. The Brexit referendum result in Scotland was not admitted by Westminster. It is difficult to find an example of significant Scottish sovereignty other than the convenient 2014 referendum which is being used in an attempt to put future claims of Scottish sovereignty on hold for at least a generation. The 2014 majority in favour of staying in the UK was achieved through the votes and influence of settlers, colonists and tamed natives. ‘The game is rigged’.

    Sixty years have passed since the Decolonisation Resolution was ratified. That’s a long time ago and it’s time Scotland’s status was revisited. There’s plenty evidence to suggest that Scotland meets the definition of a colony (Gray, 2012, Baird, 2017, 2020, Grousebeater, 2017) but there seems little point in trying to bring that to the notice of the international community until there’s been perceptible activity on the independence front in Scotland. One step which could be taken now is to inform and convince the Scottish people they’re being colonised and that will continue until ethnic absorption, unless decisive action is taken. That would take qualities we have yet to see in our current leadership.

    The colonisation argument was avoided during indyref1 and since. Perhaps because it’s too embarrassing for our insipid élite representatives to admit publicly that they are part of a long line who have accepted vassal status on our behalf for over three hundred years. They seem happy to be allowed comfortable lifestyles in exchange for daily humiliation, silence and inaction.

    We put them there.

    Establishment inadequacies, malpractice and internal corruption suggest that we are not yet ready for independence. The case for independence has not been made since 2014. The 2014 campaign focused mainly on the democratic and economic case. It failed to convince people that they were suffering hardship or loss on these grounds alone. It relied too much on spurious arguments like ‘positive campaigns always beat negative campaigns’ and mostly ignored the damaging effects of a hostile media and outside interference.

    It’s time to widen the case for independence. A forum surrounded by snipers is probably not the best place to develop a long term plan (is there anywhere better?) but here are some starting points.

    Paragraph 1 of Stuart Campbell’s ‘The SNP Manifesto 2021’; Robin McAlpine’s ‘how to start a new country’; Alf Baird’s ‘Determinants’; Stephen Maxwell’s six ‘Cases’; Elliot Bulmer’s ‘ A Constitution for the Common Good’. Etc?

    We’ve waited long enough.

  112. Dorothy Devine

    Meanwhile in primary schools instead of teaching numeracy ,literacy and lifeskills the children are being taught about homophobia , transphobia and how to be drag queens.

    I mention this as an antidote to the covid debate – of which I am personally exhausted – apart from sticking the vaccine /stuff in children especially girls who will go on to produce the next generations.

    Thalidomide eventually had to pay out but the big pharma’s working on covid vaccine have been given special dispensation.

  113. James Che.

    Ron Maclean.
    It is with great sadness that we are indeed under colonialism that goes unrecognised even by our own people, that covid, like Brexit is now part of the colonialism infrastructure,

    By following unquestionably the covid rules that the snp are applying including enforced lockdowns we are agreeing to hand our sovereignty to Nicola sturgeon by tacit law,

    We can do this voluntary as sovereign Scots, but not by enforcement of a law and the stealing over our sovereignty by stealth.

  114. Andy Ellis

    @James Che 12.41 pm

    Good for you. Since yu’re a personal friend of Big Eck’s I’d expect you to know his mind…? There again…mebbe not.

    You still haven’t answered the questions by the way. Waiting for sense or evidence from many on here is generally like waiting for Godot, I know….but surely you have some alternative path in mind when you assure us the party you’re out delivering leaflets for is just another party and none of it will lead to independence?

    Otherwise people might just assume you’re bumping your gums.

    As for what I’ve personally done for independence, perhaps it is less than all those hard working party activists and leafleters. I only cam back to Scotland in 2018 right enough, but I had (in my naivete) joined the SNP in 2015 to contribute financially to the cause.

    I’m always a tad suspicious of those who cast doubt on others commitment to the cause on the basis that they themselves are “old campaigners”.

    Lots of SNP old campaigners got us where we are today: how’s that working out?

  115. Republicofscotland

    James Che @11.15am.

    Sturgeon has no interest in Scottish independence, and neither has the Greens, they have their own agenda to play out, I’d say the majority of Scots voted Sturgeon in again on the idea that she provided us with independence, she certainly used Scottish independence enough in the run up to May’s elections, however its a case of Sturgeon doesn’t care what the sovereign people of Scotland wanted, as long as she fooled them enough to get reelected back into office, and pursue her own agenda.

    We’ll have five wasted years ahead of us, as Sturgeon rolls out her agenda and some of the Greens as well, and Johnson knows it, he’ll spend the next five years, or whoever is PM at Westminster undermining Scotland at every turn, and its all the fault of that treacherous b*stard Sturgeon the Betrayer.

  116. Ebok


    ‘The People of Scotland’
    He roared from Arbroath
    Forgave me for murder in the chapel
    Then fought by me in erstwhile battles
    Now they must forget the martyred one
    Who could not deal with devious scum
    He did not seem to understand
    That realpolitik is where battles are won
    But that option was never in his heart
    Too loyal and misguided from the start
    That era is now gone, and times have changed
    All inner resistance has since been tamed
    Now we must build on strengths we hold dear
    And recognise the primacy of those we revere
    To whom our country will long be indebted
    For their sacrifices which are truly regretted
    So, as a token of that which is owed
    Rich rewards have been bestowed
    On Dukes and Earls of royal descent
    And seditious nobles who now repent
    With one voice, the royal court has agreed
    To terms and conditions as decreed
    To our Holy Father Pope John in Avignon
    We placed these in a scroll
    As written from our imperial hearts and soul
    We begged the Pontiff to endorse me as our de facto King
    And to bless the declaration from our nation we bring
    To command the English to cease invasion
    On our God-fearing peaceful nation
    And to rescind expulsions from the Roman flock
    As these have been a major stumbling block
    And as for God’s lowly creations
    Those tasked with protecting our nobles and nation
    Alas, the surviving peasants and vassals
    Who drove the English from our lands and castles
    And the sons and mothers of those who died
    Must return to their reverent lives
    But even as they mourn and cry
    They will yet collect for His Grace’s wealth
    E’er to grow and multiply

    And while servants and serfs toil by hand
    In this embryonic majestic land
    They will continue to live in despair
    As they bow before their sovereign and declare
    That we are all brothers in this land of heather
    And we are all in this together

    ‘The People of Scotland’
    He beckoned from Rome
    Know me, Charles Edward Louis John Casimir Sylvester Severino Maria Stuart
    I am their rightful King’s son
    And I am coming to my fathers’ home
    The Act of Settlement must be repealed
    So, steadfast Jacobites
    Let us prepare for the battlefield
    Do not be concerned
    That I have not seen Scotland before
    Just be ready and waiting when I come ashore
    Now is a good time for us to strike
    The British army will not muster all its might
    Whilst they are enmeshed in wars of oppression
    And the War of Austrian Succession
    We will attack from the north
    With men from the highlands and the valleys
    While Louis XV will support from the south –
    He has already manned his galleys
    We have the backing of the Pope and Spain and France
    So, Jacobite’s, let us rise and seize this chance
    But before the French power could be unleashed
    Their fleet sailed into a raging southeast
    And as their ships are battered and scattered in the storm
    The balance of power was about to transform
    And although this news was rather alarming
    It did not affect the delusions
    Of this resolute Prince Charming
    With six thousand men he thought he would be fine
    And duly got to Derby in quite good time
    But King George’s son was fully primed
    And had a greater force assigned
    His militias were assembled and ready within hours
    Hardy veterans with abundant firepower
    They tracked the Jacobite’s who were now in retreat
    Marching relentlessly to the sound of the drumbeat

    It was on 16 April 1746 that it came to pass
    On Drumossie Moor the inevitable clash
    And as apprehension filled the early morning air
    Clansmen felt the weight of their Gaelic forebears
    Amidst a sense of foreboding hard to dispel
    That this was a day that may not end well
    But as battle loomed, it was time to prepare
    Then just a moment for a silent prayer
    Before on to Culloden’s bloody killing field
    Where the Jacobite’s destiny was permanently sealed
    The Butcher Cumberland had callously vowed
    That taking prisoners would not be allowed
    And that on this day, come hell or high water
    There would be a genocidal slaughter

    From the Picts to the Clans
    For five thousand years this history spanned
    But now nothing could stop it turning into sand
    As rituals and traditions were forever banned
    But Charlie, my darling, you will not be betrayed
    Just come with Flora and hide away
    Soon you will be back home in Rome
    Relaxing with your friends enjoying hors d’oeuvre
    Then later a party in your luxurious chalet
    While clans are strewn before wild winds of change
    Telling heart-rending accounts
    Of the merciless enemy rampage
    And to suppress the Highlanders from that year
    They built a stunning monument near Ardersier
    A humiliating reminder from Fort George
    That clan supremacy is forever purged

    And while crofters and peasants are compelled
    To roam these magnificent High-Lands
    They will continue to live in despair
    As they bow before their Hanoverian King and declare
    That we are all brothers in this land of heather
    And we are all in this together

    ‘The People of Scotland’
    They shout from Holyrood and from Skye
    Want honourable members
    To listen and take heed
    We do seek independence
    But we will not plead
    Our 300 years of marriage
    Has gone on much too long
    We still want to remain friends
    But all the love has gone
    We also want Brexit undone
    It’s in the interests of everyone
    We will re-join the Neo-Liberal brigade
    Of the unelected and vastly overpaid
    And then there will be no reason
    For us at Westminster to be here
    We will transfer power to EU
    And do so without any fear
    We know it is a priority
    For Scotsmen everywhere
    To join half a billion entities
    In Deutsche Bankers care
    The Bundestag will be in charge
    They will run the show
    Ably supported by their partners
    From Paris and Bordeaux
    After all, they have been doing great things
    For forty years and more
    Just look at how the wealth
    Of the super-rich has soared

    Oh Lord! Woe is me!
    This way will never set us free
    To take our hand
    And dupe our mind
    With an oxymoron
    Of the cruellest kind
    When after centuries in chains
    The dragon is slain
    To then capitulate
    To a foreign domain
    Without a fight
    They may as well
    Perform the last rite
    And as the new kids on the block
    Take us for a ride
    As all sense of direction
    Is lost or cast aside
    Then our Raison d’être becomes blurred
    And goes astray
    With overplay
    And excessive demands
    And as night follows day
    The dream will fade away
    As they masquerade
    With needless tirades
    But don’t dream of change
    It’s not in the plan
    The blueprint’s been developing
    Since before globalisation began
    They’ve infiltrated all levels
    With clandestine devils
    Now there’s a plethora
    Of hegemonies fixed in place
    A masterpiece of planning
    That you cannot retrace
    And as they take away
    Your freedom of speech
    Don’t break the rules
    Or they will impeach
    You cannot criticise
    Or say what you think
    They’re listening and watching
    Because there’s always a link
    Echoes of ‘Brave New World’
    And Big Brother ‘1984’
    Huxley or Orwell
    A reality you cannot ignore
    And as they foolishly dismantle
    Our acclaimed education
    We see the attempted creation
    Of a New-Age style
    Indoctrinated nation
    Obscurantism will be practiced
    Like a sermon from John the Baptist
    Dogmas will be recited
    Repeated and retweeted
    And when truth and propaganda
    Are headed for collision
    Truth is the one
    Taking the road to Perdition
    Yes, sadly, we are ruled
    By marionettes who scorn the truth
    Enrolled and indoctrinated
    From the time of their youth
    They who join political parties
    As soon as they leave school
    Some perfect candidates
    To be the Lord of Misrule
    And whose total worldly experience
    Is gained from a mobile screen
    As they gleefully parrot soundbites
    Sent by a research team
    And believe that loyalty is to close their eyes
    To those who drink and party and assume
    That position makes it acceptable
    To covertly groom
    While naïve members from the farm
    Do not see risk or harm
    Ensuring schoolkids get their share
    Shrewdly introduced to the unaware
    By Flow or Blow, it’s all in the name
    An enriching Job, claim the insane
    Well, damn this cesspit of political mire
    From where no one can inspire
    Yes, politics is a dirty game
    That ignores Scotland’s shame
    Of the abused and poor and sick and lame
    And mentally ill, and those in care
    And if you ask, it’s always the same
    Like PFI, there’s no one to blame

    Since time out of mind
    Like Jekyll and Hyde
    History has been one great divide
    Whereby power and greed
    Has forever conquered need
    From medieval Normans
    And landed gentry
    To corporate giants and billionaires
    And those with plenty
    Like moguls and bankers
    All high and mighty
    And spurned are those
    Left in their wake
    While we watch the suffering
    Of this inhumane heartache
    Of hungry kids
    And food bank users
    And working-class losers
    And souls on the street
    Who can never hope to deplete
    The absurd riches of the elite

    And while the unworthy share the air
    Of this glorious abundant land
    They will continue to live in despair
    As they bow before phoneys and hypocrites who declare
    That we are all brothers in this land of heather
    And we are all in this together

  117. Fionan

    Breeks says:
    18 July, 2021 at 12:46 pm

    If I wanted to hear so much shite about COVID when it’s far more important to be talking about Independence, I’d have given myself a frontal lobotomy and tuned in to listen to one Sturgeon the Betrayer’s joyless briefings.

    I agree, but of course as we know, these endless tit-for-tat circular arguments about anyhting and everything other than independence are specifically to divert discussion and attention away from indy and away from the various issues in achieving it. And to drive true indy support away from this blog where so much useful info has appeared in the past. Much of it appears to come from sturgeonite trolls.

  118. J.o.e

    Im sorry you don’t get how important this is Breeks. Im surprised also.

  119. J.o.e

    I find it interesting that in the context of nationalism there is a hyper sensitivity of ‘going too far’ in terms of historical precedent.

    Yet for mandating medications still in their clinical trial phase for a virus with a massive survival rate, coupled with a use of testing and statistics for which public health bodies have given advice contrary to current use, along with government and corporate censorship and propaganda there seems to be conformity.

    Lets not talk about ‘lessons from the past’ if we are going to bury our heads on this.

  120. Republicofscotland

    The missing ringfenced indyfunds complaints jumps from the original seven to a whopping nineteen now, and Police Scotland must investigate the new complaints.

    Of course the original complaint was made by Sean Clerkin, if only more of us we’re like him, more pro-active and militant on the indyfront, we wouldn’t be in this mess to start with.

  121. James Che.

    Andy Ellis.
    I was looking for your direct question to me, and I think you mean the one you started with pixywine,
    However it is nice that you want to join us you’re more than welcome, although perhaps it is to be recognised at different stages,
    The answer to your question, I would not post on here as there are as many trolls as hot dinners, and being as they are more than eager to stop an independent seed of thought before it blossoms. (Which is their purpose for being here )
    It is to be adverted.
    I do not consider myself full of knowledge, their are many others on this site streets ahead of me. However there are ways and means to catch up and being a member of Alba might be one of them,
    As to my own politic in that direction even although I have leafleted for the snp in the past and the Alba party more recently, I now tend to think sovereignty in the past and present does not belong to the politicians to f..k up.
    It belongs to the Scottish people.

  122. Hatuey

    Ebok, succinctly put. I agree with every word. We should use it on bumper stickers.

  123. James Che.

    Realpolitik a good read of Mr Johnston by mr news I believe, with connection to America and mr Kissinger.

  124. James Che.

    Human correction now overriding auto correction, Mr Bews.

  125. Fireproofjim

    For weeks now, ever since Stu hung up his pen, we have been inundated with self-opinionated nonsense from non-experts about the case against Covid vaccination.
    Whatever their case may be it is not anything to do with helping our independence. It is just a few loud-mouthed pub bores who are thoughtlessly destroying the remains of the best pro- independence site in Scotland. But that’s probably their aim.

  126. Andy Ellis

    @ James Che 5.08 pm

    My questions at 11.26 am upthread. Do at least try to keep up.


    “If you’re writing off all political parties – including it seems strangling Alba more or less at birth – how do you suggest independence is going to be achieved? Mass uprising? Revolution?”

    We’re (still) all ears.

  127. Effigy

    John Main

    Who gave Covid to the world?

    If it was China, they are too rich and powerful to ever be found guilty.

    If there were creating viruses of mass destruction, they would be in the same
    boat as the English, American and Russian Chemical warfare facilities who
    maybe haven’t had a major leak incident?

  128. Andy Ellis

    @Fireproofjim 5.37 pm

    People interact with what is before them. The indyref franchise and Covid vaccination seem to be the only issues getting any traction in here at present. Doubtless there are other things we could and should be discussing until Rev Stu decides just to shut the place down.

    I mean, it’s not as if there’s going to be much else for us to do over the next few years but talk about *stuff*, given there’s SFA chance of #indyref2 happening.

    Of course you could be pro active and start off a scintillating new topic for discussion, argument (and doubtless heaps of abuse).

    Or you could just sit on the sidelines and throw rocks because you have nothing meaningful to add.

  129. gregor

    Interestingly, identifying the actual pandemic virus source doesn’t appear to be a national/global priority.

  130. Breeks

    Ron Maclean says:
    18 July, 2021 at 2:08 pm

    ….It’s time to widen the case for independence. A forum surrounded by snipers is probably not the best place to develop a long term plan (is there anywhere better?) but here are some starting points.

    Good read there Ron, but what niggles me is that Sovereignty is a legal status. Your Constitution isn’t a coat you pull off and on like a raincoat in bad weather, and neither is a nation’s sovereignty.

    If Scotland is lawfully Sovereign by virtue of it’s Constitution, then somehow becoming “non-sovereign” requires some similarly lawful initiative to change the status of that Constitutional status. It doesn’t matter what the prevailing perception might be. Political opinion and convention is imprecise and ephemeral, but a Legal definition is constant and exact until it undone or changed.

    It doesn’t matter what improvised, unwritten conventions might say. When push comes to shove and the Constitutional Arguments go under forensic examination at a UN Court, the ONLY Constitutional status with legal foundation is that the Scottish People are sovereign. They were properly recognised as sovereign, and since no article of law can demonstrate, or even claim, that sovereignty was removed from the people, then NOTHING has been changed and the people remain sovereign.

    Statute does not decay over time. Even if it’s archaic and almost forgotten, it remains statute, and endures until it is repealed or explicitly superseded. The Treaty of Union doesn’t remove the sovereignty of the people, and to the best of my knowledge, there isn’t ANY lawful device or document which does.

    It is my firm belief that a forensic audit of Scotland’s Constitutional Status, prompted by a Constitutional dispute, (as should have happened when Scotland was subjugated to accept Brexit), will prove that Auld Scots Law and Sovereign Constitution has NOT been overwritten or superseded, and the fictions which assert otherwise, principally the Treaty of Union, and the myriad of unwritten conventions improvised by expediency, will fall apart and disintegrate when their basis in Law is actually tested.

    Let Westminster assert that Scotland is NOT Sovereign. Let them dare, so they can be challenged to produce the mechanism which removed the popular sovereignty from the people, the curious process by which it was allegedly done, and when it was accorded proper International Recognition.

    Scotland is perhaps unique in the world as an Auld World Nation which has it’s Constitutional Birth Certificate in the Declaration of Arbroath, recognised and ratified both by the Pope in 1328 and the Dowager Queen Isabella in the 1328 Treaty of Edinburgh/ Northampton.

    We KNOW the source of Scotland’s lawfully recognised sovereignty. The “mystery” which beggars and impoverishes Scotland and which we must test to destruction is the fallacy and sophistry which asserts Scotland’s sovereignty was “somehow” extinguished yet cannot elaborate on how it was done.

    Scotland’s sovereignty comes with certificates of authenticity, written proofs, identifiable process and protocol, dates and heritage, and centuries of uncontested provenance.

    By contrast, the Treaty of Union was mired from the beginning in fraud, corruption, bribery and inducement and treachery of politicians who hadn’t the status to surrender Scotland’s freedom and were forced to hide and flee for their lives.

    It doesn’t matter what the established convention might say. It doesn’t even matter what a democratic mandate might assert. Scotland’s status and legitimacy is defined and protected by law, and the fallacy of a Union which should never have existed in the first place has gone on long enough.

  131. Robert Graham


    And what makes you a fkn expert then ? You are as bright as all these other experts with all sorts of diplomas and letters after their names that have been right about exactly fk all over the last year and a half most of them will say anything their organ grinder tells them failing that a brown envelope stuffed full of cash to ease their conscience will do, trust any of them Aye Right .

  132. James Che.

    Breeks well said,

  133. James Che.

    Andy Ellis.
    I gave you not only an answer, but also an opinion,
    I am sorry some answers are not good enough for you,

  134. James Che.


    You have adequately describe the position we are in, there is not a politician around taken a straight path to Scottish independence since 2014, even then that was the wrong way to go,
    Sovereign Scots asking England’s Westminster permission to be sovereign is a twist of logic.

  135. James Che.

    Robert graham.
    I bet your closer to the truth than I realised. 🙂

  136. Andy Ellis

    @ Breeks 7.03 pm

    The international community doesn’t care about the Declaration of Arbroath, the Treaties of Union or any of the Claims of Right. Every self regarding people is sovereign when it asserts its right to be so.

    The UN and international community generally are fairly agnostic about what happened in the dim and distant past. It doesn’t really matter to the UN, EU and any other international body that Scotland had a thousand year history which its rulers voluntarily gave up to gain unequal access to the English imperial project and the sinecures of office available in a much larger and more successful nascent world empire.

    No deus ex machina is riding over the horizon to declare the union defunct or illegal or of no legal standing. If we want independence we have to take it, and requires a clear expression of the desire to do so from a majority of the population. If we wait for others to do the heavy lifting for us, we’ll be waiting a long time. The international community didn’t save the Catalans, and it won’t support us either.

    There will be no independence without a mandate, but the mandate might come in a number of forms. Scotland is not in the same situation as other recent successful independence movements: its not like the republics which gained independence following the break up the USSR or Yugoslavia, it’s not like Timor L’Este or New Caledonia, or South Sudan. It’s a bit like the Czechoslavak divorce, and a has similarities (as well as differences) with the independence movements in Catalonia and Quebec.

    The international community doesn’t care if countries seeking independence had never had any previous history as independent states, or only had them for brief times before having their independence extinguished, or whether they are seeking to form some new entity. Spain can protest all it likes that it is indivisible and that secession is not allowed, but in the end if any of the constituent communities in Spain are prepared to go far enough, the international community is likely to grant recognition in the right circumstances.

    Similarly, the USA can assert all it likes that individual states don’t have the right to secede, but what matters is facts on the ground. Some entities fail to achieve recognition(Northern Cyprus, Transnistria, Somaliland, South Ossetia…), others take a while to ultimately gain recognition (Timor L’Este, Kosovo, “Northern” Macedonia), while others could probably do it in a relatively straightforward way if they demonstrated an unequivocal desire, mandate and majority to do so (Scotland and Quebec….Catalonia if the Spaniard were leant on hard enough…).

    Nobody is going to pull our chestnuts from the fire, we have to hve the courage to reach in to the flames and do it ourselves.

  137. Dan

    @ James Che at 7.19pm

    Ach, at least you got a response. 😉

    This isn’t very civic nationalism minded if stating you pay tax and are a citizen of a country for 40 years are somehow validation or required to have a political opinion in Scotland.
    What’s wrong with folk just rocking up and getting a vote…

  138. David Caledonia

    Oh the meta fours the meta furs, whits a meta fur, cats fur, ever seen it on a dug

  139. Andy Ellis

    @ Dan 7.47 pm

    I did actually write you a response. Apologies: it was modded out by Stu’s filter for some unknown reason – no idea why, but I can’t be arsed providing a precis!

    WRT Janey Godly, I’d be more than happy to make an exception her part and deprive her of citizenship in favour of…well…almost anyone really. 🙂

  140. WGW

    Andy Ellis @ 7:38pm

    Hello, I don’t always agree with Andy, e.g. on an Independence franchise, but this time I believe he’s 100% correct for all the reasons he rationally lists.

    There’s nothing more to say except: a majority of Scottish Independence MPs at Westminster prepared to withdraw, a majority of declared Independence MSPs at Holyrood – both backed up by majority of Scots residents voting Yes in an Independence referendum.

    What could be simpler? Apart from getting Parliamentarians elected on that basis!

  141. Breeks

    Just a general progression to earlier thinkings, actually it was Ebok’s poem mentioning John Comyn, I did a bit reading on John Comyn, who in my opinion gets a bad press only being remembered as a murder victim.

    It’s a pdf format, but don’t let it put you off, it’s good stuff…

    I knew the John Comyn fought beside Simon Fraser at the largely understated 1303 Battle of Roslin, when a Scottish Army rumoured to be of some 8000 men defeated in three separate clashes a invading English Army of some 30,000 men. It was full on brutal too. One report estimates only 3000 English made it back over the border, and Edward 1st’s punitive invasion got a real kicking.

    Simon Fraser, of Neidpath Castle in Peebles, would later be hung, drawn and quartered, with his head on a spike beside Wallace. (Although I’ve also read Sir Simon was deemed to be of higher status than Wallace and was simply beheaded).

    I’m telling you folks, even those of you who don’t “do” history, the 30 years, from 1286 when Scotland’s King Alexander III fell to his death, right through to 1314 and Robert the Bruce winning at Bannockburn, the life and death struggle of our Nation is more epic and dramatic than ANY chapter of history that I’ve ever come across in any part of the world.

    Forget about movies like Braveheart and even Outlaw King, not for their inaccuracies, but for simply being the tip of the iceberg. Scotland is where it’s the movie script which is pallid and unambitious
    beside the intensity of actual history. And just for a yardstick, there is now 75 years between us and the end on WW2, but say that Bannockburn had fallen this year, then the death of Alexander III which kicked it all off would only have happened as recently as the 90’s.

    Forget your Lord of Rings trilogy or Game of Thrones fantasy series, Scotland has a thirty year chapter in it’s real History that is simply eye watering and truly beggars belief, with more plot twists, battles, tragedies, betrayals, redemptions, heartbreak, joy, and intrigue that would test any author.

    As a nation, I think Scotland owes it to itself to sponsor a big budget epic which puts 13th-14th Century Scotland up on the big screen and do justice to Scotland’s true story. It would be an absolute blockbuster. Even Toom Tabbard himself John Bailliol doesn’t really deserve the ignominy with which he’s remembered.

    As I was reading that pdf, my mind was racing off at just the enormity and settled determination of England’s desire to take Scotland, and the desperate, often seat of your pants determination of Scotland to endure, rearm and fight again.

    Movies like all the pivotal moments, Wallace at Stirling Bridge then Falkirk, Bruce at Loudon Hill then Bannockburn… Even Lord of the Rings has the knightly Riders of Rohan riding out the darkness to impale the Orcs on their spears… but in 1303, it was 8000 Scottish knights and soldiery actually emerging from the darkness having marched through the night and falling upon the invader, …and they did it twice more to rout three English Armies in one day… The Battle of Roslin 1303.

    “Verily, the Scots are well-known as an antidote to the English.” Aye. No half.

  142. Breeks

    That night march by the way was 24 miles, with 3 set battles afterwards. Biggar to Roslin.

    Run a Marathon eh? Try running a “Roslin”… in the dark in full battle dress.

  143. Tinto Chiel


    Forgive the Bezos reference, please, in the service of a higher power.

    That’s Our Power, by the way 😉 .

  144. Andy Ellis

    @ Bill Walker 8.40 pm

    In principle there is nothing to stop us dispensing with a referendum altogether though, is there? If the British nationalists refuse to consent to a S30 order for #indyref2 (and/or the Scottish government has refused or failed to put the matter of whether a non S30 sanctioned vote is “legal” beyond legal doubt) then there is no reason the Yes movement should not simply declare every subsequent general election for Westminster or Holyrood plebiscitary.

    It’s pretty certain members can ensure Alba endorses this strategy. Whether the SNP can be prevailed upon to do so has to be open to considerable doubt.

    The referendum franchise argument becomes redundant if we use plebiscitary elections instead.

  145. Captain Yossarian

    @Breeks – They had fire in their belly. Do you think any one of the Scots at Holyrood or Westminster has fire in their belly?

    We’ve given Holyrood more than 20-years and it is now worse than ever. It’s time to cut it loose for the good of all of us.

    I thought it would improve over time but it hasn’t. Ruth Davidson has used it to fill her boots but so too have they all.

    I’m a part-time Labour supporter by the way and Labour have crumbled to just the same extent as the SNP over the past 10-years.

    It’s now gotten so bad that there is not a single MSP of any party that I would trust.

    That’s the problem for the independence movement in the years ahead. If you ask Scots if they want to be independent under Sturgeon and Swinney, the answer will be ‘no’.

  146. Confused

    Ellis, the mystifier, strikes again.

    Now he speaks for the “international community” – whatever that is.

    No one gives a fuck about the “international community” or rather what matters is

    what America says (- and behind it, what Israel wants)

    the EU are a bunch of shit the beds who piss themselves when the Americans phone; the whole thing was only setup because of American laziness – they wanted a one stop shop to “do business”; or a single point of contact to issue orders.

    Leverage american connections is what the SNP should have been doing since way back, but … Trump is a bad man, etc.

    Nothing that any african or south american says, thinks or does, matters a tuppeny fuck – the chinese are important, but they won’t interfere in the american sphere.

    Getting american support for a declaration at the UN is all you need to become independent, but you have to play the adults games, of realpolitik.

    What annoys me is how people are resistant to leverage just how much “England” is loathed around the world; everyone hates them, china, russia, the EU, america and israel treat them with contempt, some residual bad blood from 1776 and 1947; then the ex colonies – none of them wants back in.

    Getting our indy backed by the entire world should be easy, yet no one is interested in this.

  147. Andy Ellis

    @ Breeks 8.55 pm

    What would the heroes of Roslin think about their Scottish descendants not having the courage to take their independence by putting a cross in a box I wonder?

  148. Andy Ellis

    @Confused 9.24 pm

    Aptly named. You can’t educate pork.

    Get back to us when you’ve done some basic reading on politics, international relations and how the international system works. Google is your friend if you lack the wit to dig a bit deeper.

    It’s not a sin to be confused of course, it IS a sin to be proud of it.

  149. Dan

    @ Andy Ellis at 8:27 pm

    Ah, ok, nowt worse than getting a post caught in moderation. I’ll check back for it later.

    Anyway, I’m keeping my head down at the moment as have successfully managed to pollinate and early female pumpkin flower with a male flower and set the fruit.
    Obviously in NuScotland this may be classed as legume rape as those delicate flowers may actually have identified as different sexes contrary to their appearance.
    Plus my interference may have violated their gender expression by forcing sexual liaisons at odds with their preferred type of sex partner.
    In my defence, having seen the empty shelves in some supermarkets the creation of food seemed a priority.
    I did try to establish consent in as much as my linguistic abilities to speak the pumpkin dialect of squash allowed.

    In other news, the bastardin deer has been back in my garden again, pulling up and eating more beetroots and now eating the runner bean pods, flowers, and leaves. 🙁
    Where’s the bloody rozzers when you need them to protect my rights to grow veg without getting it snaffled by some itinerant lowlife tick carrying mammal…

  150. Confused

    Ellis seems to be an expert on something or other in his own mind; and yet he just “cockblocks” with no practical suggestions as to what should be done.

    – oh we can’t change the franchise because … orban … nazis … nativism
    – oh our ancient laws don’t matter … because
    – oh you can’t do this because …

    are you really a nationalist? It seems something so caveated, conditional and fragile, intricate in its construction, that if you do not get it “just so” – you don’t want it.

    I just want to get over the line, in any state, then we begin.

    It bothers me you have joined Alba because you seem to be a classic shit-stirrer.

  151. Graeme

    Katie Hopkins is persona non grata in Australia. Australia ffs. She’s too toxic even by their racist, xenophobic standards. She’ll be rocking up to GB News in no time as virtual Viagra for their nasty little audience.

    GB News: Preaching to the Converted.

  152. Andy Ellis

    @Confused 9.33 pm

    It bothers me when snivelling cowards on line hiding behind anonymous profiles cast aspersions about whether folk they agree with are pure enough to be accepted as real nationalists.

    If you want independence at any cost you’re dangerous.

    You can change the franchise, but doing so is not risk free. Nobody said it can’t be discussed, certainly not me and not Rev Stu wither.

    Our ancient laws, whilst interesting and colourful, aren’t what will deliver independence. Nobody outside Scotland cares. being butt hurt about that simple fact achieves nothing.

    I’m not looking for purity, just something that works. I’m not going to campaign wholeheartedly for something if it includes policies in fundamental areas I disagree with, but there are others I’d be willing to compromise on. By all means let’s be open minded but not so open minded our brains fall out.

    If you’re prepared to endorse independence at any cost, ditch any principle, accept any platform on the assumption that we can sort out everything after the event, you’re stupider than your peurile post suggests.

  153. Breastplate

    Andy Ellis,

    “If you want independence at any cost you’re dangerous”.

    Let’s hope so ffs, let’s hope so.

  154. Andy Ellis

    @Dan 9.30 pm

    “Where’s the bloody rozzers when you need them to protect my rights to grow veg without getting it snaffled by some itinerant lowlife tick carrying mammal…”

    I think they’re busy investigating the FMs other half….?

  155. Confused

    Your understanding of the world is a cut and paste from wikipedia.

    Did you get a PhD in “how things are meant to be”?

    – there is a shallow pedantry about you, and a weaselly-wordiness. You do like to go for the quick win – “blood and soil”? Nothing of the kind was discussed.

    While no one cares about anyone elses laws, arbroath 1320 is equally valid as anyones foundation text; the english are allowed to revere magna carta, even though half of it concerns debts owed to jews and is a cringe to the modern ear.

    Anonymous profiles allow a separation of political discussion and professional life; there is nothing sinister about this. Freedom of speech is not up to much in this land, best be careful. I don’t need to know your name to argue with you and the fact you use it so publicly makes me think you are a bit “full of it”.

    Pursuing independence should be an “easy” thing as any sincere advocate would realise the need to put aside, e.g. class issues (temporary) or god help us, tranny nonsense (permanently). People like you seem to have a checklist.

    You say you want something that works – I’ve read a fair few (too many) of your posts of late and I do not detect a pragmatist.

  156. Andy Ellis

    @ Confused 10.06 pm

    If you don’t want to be educated, don’t read. My PhD is in International Relations, so yeah…I rely on Wikipedia a lot…

    Of course blood and soil was discussed, even if not all of those advocating franchise change wanted to disenranchise ALL non-Scots born residents, some very publicly did and do. It’s the very definition of blood and soil. You’re either being dishonest or just not paying attention, but somehow anyone calling you out for it is a shallow pedant…? Uh huh….

    Nobody argues that foundation texts aren’t significant. The point is they will have zero impact on independence in the 2020’s. If the declaration had never existed and we’d been conquered by England in 1314, it wouldn’t make a jot of difference to what might happen when we argue our case in front of the international community now.

    Yeah, yeah…you’re anonymous because you’re so brave. No…wait…the other thing.

    I don’t have a checklist, but most rational people would have some red lines. Dismissing class issues (which none of the recent discussions have even mentioned) or “tranny nonsense” makes it sound like you’re one of those people with no principles: a cultist who will do anything because the ends justify the means.

    If you don’t detect a pragmatist you patently have comprehension difficulties. I’ve only read a few of your posts (thankfully). I don’t detect someone capable of rational argument.

  157. stonefree

    @ Graeme at 9:43 pm
    They’ve got her , they keep her.
    Or as the Aussies like return at the border, She could spend her life in permanent Long Haul ……Aus to london and return ad infinitum

  158. Brian Doonthetoon

    Eh think wur goin’ a’ roon’ the hooses here – and have been for the past week.

    For an independence referendum or a plebiscitary election, I feel it is reasonable to impose a 5 year residency qualification on potential voters. That covers the 4 year period of a (non-medical) Scottish degree, where students disappear back to from where they came, once they have their scroll.

    I can’t imagine there would be too many international “sharp intakes of breath’ if that was the case.

    Perchance, this will be discussed at Alba’s conference…

  159. Ron Maclean

    @Breeks 6:00pm

    ‘… Sovereignty is a legal status. Your Constitution…’

    Good to hear from you and your efforts to keep the saltire flying above the mire produced by Sturgeon’s betrayers and Covid obsessives are much appreciated.

    I agree with your principle but we don’t have a written Constitution to fall back on and we might easily lose our claim to sovereignty by neglect and default. Brexit was an opportunity to test what we do have through the courts but as usual Ms Sturgeon and her overpaid mediocrities failed to turn up. I had high hopes that Alba would fill the constitutional gap abandoned by the SNP. They’ve got a few weeks yet to pull something out but it’s not looking very promising.

    It’s good to see that this site still sometimes supports independence.

  160. Confused

    Ellis – you are starting to sound a bit like sensible dave; on a mission to civilise the BTL barbarians?

    “argument from authority” is that where you are coming from?

    Tell us what highers you did as well.

    Only one PhD – how can you live with yourself!

    Ellis, you’re a buzzkill – and I cannot imagine the likes of you ever “going over the top” for indy

    – you blether pseudo academic bollocks, flapping like a loose tarp in a gale; you set yourself up here as some kind of authority, it’s a bit like Brodie, but done with less humour and self awareness

    I have heard st andrews uni is full of english weirdoes whose political views are to the right of the mitford sisters; I suspect most of them are predatory homosexuals and if you want a first, then its “vaseline alley” time

    but obviously you are unblemished as you are a perfect arsehole

  161. J.o.e

    ‘Covid obsessives’

    ‘It’s good to see that this site still sometimes supports independence.’

    Sometimes you are presented with such jaw dropping monolithic stupidity and thoughtless arrogance it is impossible to even start to know where to begin to address it.

  162. Robert graham


    bye JOE

    Your take on world events will be greatly missed

  163. twathater

    This is a comment following Iain Lawson’s prism show with Gil Paterson and sums up the shit show going on

    Donald Baws

    3 days ago (edited)

    Gil, the native people of the Highlands are being priced out of the places of their own birth and are rapidly being replaced by people with more money than them. For the Highlands read all of rural Scotland. People who can make money off the sale of their houses elsewhere, overwhelmingly though not exclusively, England. That might not fit with your principles but it is a fact. If the franchise is made in Scotland but still leads to an effective veto for people who are entering Scotland for a life of privilege courtesy of a disparity in house prices then we will still have a situation where we remain under the control of England/UK and the native people of ALL our non urban areas are effectively being replaced, at a rapid rate, by people with more money than them. That leads to futher pressure on the local people in our cities, who are often poor themselves. Emigration and displacement continue and nothing is being done to alleviate the problem. The recent house building program exacerbated it. The vast majority of the homes were for sale and went to the highest bidder. The highest bids overwhelmingly came from England. A tiny fraction of those houses went to local people. Those houses for rent were often competed for by a pool of people that stretched massively beyond the areas where the houses were built. Alleviating local housing shortages was what the money was spent on in the first place and yet IT CREATED PRIVILEGE AMONGST THOSE ENTERING A COMMUNITY AND MADE IT HARDER FOR LOCAL PEOPLE TO LIVE IN THEIR HOME AREA. It is the policy of the ghetto that is being followed here. The result of demand primarily from the south but from commercial property enterprises as well means that house prices in Scotland are far beyond what the vast majority of local people can afford and affordable rented accommodation is pitifully insufficient to meet demand. Every new house in Scotland has the potential to exacerbate this problem because the bids from areas around the UK with higher house values and from commercial enterprises exacerbate this problem. Southern Europe is no longer the option for some of this demand to be met. Hundreds of settlements around Scotland have been completely or partially depopulated of their native populations over the past few decades and this process is accelerating.

    What is happening in Scotland today amounts to a crime against the Scottish people yet it appears to provide the current Scottish Governments, pencil in hand, with an opportunity to fill out its virtue signalling ticklist. Oh look how nice and welcoming we are as our local poorer population leave their areas in order to survive (so that more privileged people can replace them. The relatively simple act of moving creates that privilege!)? How many injustices do our native population culturally and materially need to endure at the hands of those officials both elected and their paid employees ( being paid many multiples more than the people taxed to pay them with pensions again multiples better than the common folk will ever receive) before the people say enough is enough? The truth of the matter is that the common people have already said that enough is enough and yet nothing happens. They are powerless and have no representation. What tactics will Scotland’s (colonial?)ruling classes, and I most definitely include Holyrood in that, then employ to continue to control a population which is already per head the amongst most incarcerated in Europe?

    It feels like the end game for many of us here in Scotland and maybe it is. Maybe it is. I think the Gil Patersons of this world need to get a grip because just outside the front door of his stable life, comfortable theories and good pension this pressure will end up in the intensification of our oppression and inevitable, eventual disappearance.

  164. J.o.e


    bye JOE

    Your take on world events will be greatly missed’

    Im for the truth. Not interested in playing to peoples decades of brainwashing. Thanks

  165. J.o.e


    Lets not forget the social assistance from government and NGO’s that others are being given who are entering our cities also, over the top of Scots

  166. Andy Ellis

    @confused 10.44 pm

    The uneducated often use the somewhat lame response that someone more informed or more eloquent than them is “arguing from authority”, but given your output and lack of ability to muster any kind of intelligible response, we can safely leave it to readers in general to judge who is arguing in good faith here. Having a PhD in a pertinent discipline doesn’t make me right and everyone else wrong of course, but at least my arguments amount to more than having a pop at our oldest university and homophobia.

    It would be perfectly possible for any reasonably informed person to mount a counter argument based on their own research and reading. You don’t need to have a PhD, a degree or indeed any formal education. Greater minds than ours will come to diametrically opposed positions on the issue, but at least we can be sure that they’ve put the effort in rather than just throwing their own rhetorical shit around because like you they lack the wit or the application to do them work.

    Like so many of the nativists and anti-vaccine zoomers infecting BTL here you’re coming up empty, and we all know empty barrels make the most noise.

    You seem to have a bit of a nativist chip on your shoulder: hopefully it balances out the chips on your other shoulder.

  167. Andy Ellis

    @Ron McLean 10.39 pm

    I don’t think we should be too worried that our claim to sovereignty will be lost by neglect or default. The right of every people to self determination isn’t affected or diminished by the fact that not every people chooses to exercise it. Given events since 2014 and the descent of the SNP from the engine of independence to the scrap heap of good intentions it’s easy to get discouraged.

    We have to hope that Alba can establish itself as a viable alternative: time will tell. However in the long run, just as no party has a right to our political support or even to exist at all if it doesn’t deliver the goods, no people can ultimately be forced to opt for independence if the case to change the current constitutional arrangements isn’t strong enough.

    As we’ve seen here, we can disagree strongly about particular issues while still agreeing on the ultimate goal. The 2014 “big tent” may have collapsed, but that doesn’t mean there is no other path to the common destination. Perhaps it is more realistic to have different pro indy parties advancing their own policy platforms, rather than putting all our eggs in one basket and pretending we can defer everything until the day after independence?

    The SNPs softly, softly approach gels with their lack of radical policies, their attachment to neo liberalism, the underwhelming Growth Commission, and their advancement of wedge issues like self ID, GRA reform etc which have negligible popular support. I often thought and argued during the #indyref1 campaign that we were fighting with one hand behind our back. The concentration on a relentlessly positive, happy clappy campaign did bring on board many new supporters, but the “one size fits all” approach meant we never really laid a glove on Project Fear, and allowed their negative campaign messages to go unchallenged.

    At the time I thought that was a product of the lack lustre Yes campaign leadership, but now I think it just reflected SNP and Green Party gradualism and timidity. Both parties are at heart rather happy with the cost sinecures of the devolutionary settlement. Retaining power, influence and funding is far more important to both parties than pushing for independence.

    I think there are many here, and outside who remain committed to independence. It’s up to all of us to make sure it doesn’t get punted into the long grass by gradualists of whatever political stripe.

  168. Breeks

    I won’t be a hypocrite, because I never saw eye to eye with Petra, we were simply not likeminded, and I was singularly unsuccessful in persuading her about the merits of Sovereignty.

    Nevertheless, despite our fundamental differences, and her blind spot for Sturgeon, you still kinda knew Petra had a good heart. We might have been polar opposites in terms of strategy, direction, and the most effective route to Independence, but in an ocean of charlatans, crooks, and carpetbaggers, you at least knew Petra was above all else, a genuine Independentist at heart.

    I’m sincere in expressing my condolences, because Petra is no longer with us, and the Independence Movement is yet another man down.

  169. JimuckMac

    Surge in double-jabbed Scots been admitted to hospitals.

    We did try to warn them.

  170. Scot Finlayson

    Job application for COO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre July

    see if you can spot the elephant in the room,

    `The role requires an experienced and effective feminist leader, with the ability to lead across both the strategic and operational work of ERCC.

    We are committed to a diverse and inclusive workplace and especially welcome applications from women of colour, trans women and disabled women.

    Only women need apply for the above posts under Schedule 9, Part 1 of the Equality Act 2010.`

    Edinburgh council leadership has been taken over by the transcult.

  171. Breastplate

    I hadn’t heard but I too am sorry to hear the news about Petra.

  172. Ian Brotherhood

    @Breeks (9.10) –

    First I’d heard, thanks for letting us know.

    Sad news.


  173. Dan

    @ Breeks

    That is sad news to hear of Petra’s passing. Thoughts go out to her family, friends, and associates.
    She used to be a regular contributor btl here on Wings, adding useful and informative input to help progress the campaign for Scotland returning to being an independent country.
    I have several of her posts such as this one bookmarked.

    She will be missed, and as part of her legacy there’s probably more worth in that single post of hers than the entire output generated by the SNP Fact-checking & Rebuttal service twitter account…

  174. David Caledonia

    I only ever read the short comments, the long winded comments maybe posted with good intentions, but lets be honest there are only so many ways you can write something and then it just becomes repetitive and lacking in originality, and I include myself in that, but I do my best to avoid being repetitive.
    But sometimes something your read here just needs to be commented on, so here goes !


    When the majority of a country want to be independent, they only have to look at the UK versus Rhodesia, or as its called now Zimbabwi, ( not sure about the spelling )
    Rhodesia and Ian Smith declared a UDI, and the UK ( english ) government did everything it could to stop it, Rhodesia got help from South Africa in order to avoid all the pathetic sanctions that the UK imposed on them, yes the UK government where prepared to go to any lengths to bring them to heel and obey their imperial masters, ( the english ) we all know that so call it out for what it is, imperialism.


    The majority of people in scotland are independence supporters
    and that’s a mandate for a UDI, once its declared, who will
    stop it, certainly not an english parliament that’s for sure

  175. Republicofscotland

    Ruth (I love the Rape Clause) Davidson, will take her seat in the House of Lords tomorrow, as Baroness Davison of Lundin Links.

    Davidson said one of her main goals is to turn the HoL into a democratic chamber, yeah right. She joins other co-opted Scots in the ermine vermin chamber such as, Jack McConnell, Jim Wallace, Annabelle Goldie, and Nicol Stephen.

  176. Republicofscotland

    The Great Satan aka the USA is looking for somewhere to situate its advanced radar site to spy on Chinese satellites, and how to launch counter measures against the if need be.

    Scotland once again has been mentioned as a Great Satan forward base that is seen as expendable, of course we’re already expendable in the eyes of the USA and the UK government with Trident and the nuclear subs in mind, so a nuclear strike by China or Russia on Glasgow and Faslane will be no great loss to Westminster or Washington.

    Oh Sturgeon the Betrayer will bitch about it if it comes to fruition, but that’s all you won’t see her outside Faslane or this new radar/weapons launching pad if Scotland is unlucky enough to host it demonstrating that Scots want it removed, hell she couldn’t even attend an indy march let alone attend this.

    Scotland is now (with Faslane in mind and maybe this as well) a Great Satan’s first strike area if things take a turn for the worse, when the Great Satan ups it game against China or Russia.

  177. David Caledonia


  178. James

    nothing changes here, same old, same old. The usual suspects dishing up anti English, anti each other shite. No wonder Stu fucked off. As a Scot living in England, I see no reason to return to my homeland. Even having second thoughts about coming on holiday. Shame really, it’s got the government it deserves, judging by the comments here.
    Trust you’re enjoying the good weather Stu.
    The Scotland I left to pursue my profession seems a dim and distant memory.
    Good luck to you all and may the present Government meet the end they deserve.

  179. Liz g

    Breeks @ 9.10
    Thanks for letting us know about Petra Breeks .. that’s awful news.

    My Condolences go out to her family and friends.
    A principaled woman who was stoic and solid in her efforts to free her country.
    It’s such a great pity she never got to realise her dream.
    Rest in Peace Petra.

  180. Gary45%

    Just heard about Petra, sad news indeed, another “guid yin” gone.
    Thoughts go out to all her family and friends.
    Graeme @9.43pm
    GBeebies, Preaching to the Perverted.

  181. David Caledonia

    If one nuclear missile lands in scotland believe me London will not exist to worry about that or anything else.
    Just one missile, not 10 not 20, just one would destroy everything, so where anything is situated matters not a jot to the outcome if one lands in scotland
    All the military hardware and spying from space and all the waste of money that goes into it all, makes not one bit of difference, when the rockets are in the air, kiss your arse goodbye

  182. Willie

    Scotland is indeed a first strike target.

    Faslane and Coulport guarantee that absolutely but that is why they are up here and not down south. Of course without a military conflagration the West of Scotland enjoys the benefits of radioactive discharges.

    Said by many to be the cause of clusters of unusual cancers all claims about this are denied by the MOD. But tellingly, why was the Dounreay AGR located where it was when there was hardly a road to one of the most northerly parts of Scotland – and as far away from London as possible.

    Oh how those dying a rotten death of radiologically induced cancers must love those who placed these radioactive enterprises on their doorstep. Jocks certainly know how to take a bullet for the Team.

    Ah well it was always thus. Expendable peasants in their own land – and come a first strike, who cares. We’re Jocks who would put their grandchildren on the top of a missile.

    Two votes SNP – you know it makes sense.

  183. ScotsRenewables

    David Caledonia, I see we can add nuclear warheads and their effects to the ever-growing list of things you know fuck-all about.

  184. Davie Oga

    Nice to see the humane comments about Petra.

    Condolences to her family.

    If Sturgeon had any decency and humanity she would be carrying the casket. Noone stood up for her like Petra.

  185. David Caledonia

    I never left scotland to pursue anything and I have worked and lived all over the world, just a little work btw, nothing substantial.
    Good luck to us all, we the people of scotland who actually live here do not need luck, and we do not need to be told about being anti/english, which is a load of crap anyway.
    To make the mistake of commenting on scotland from an english perspective shows me how much you have been swayed by the english parliament and MSM bias

    For every independence supporter living in bath, there is an
    Andrew Neil living somewhere else, a scotsman living in england
    and wanting scotland to remain in the union, and they don’t even
    have any voting rights in scotland

  186. David Caledonia

    ScotRenewables thank you for your comment, now go away, thats a good boy

  187. David Caledonia

    A nuclear sub, has I think 16 missiles, and each missile splits into 10, and just one of those missiles has more power than was used in the whole of the second world war

    London or Glasgow anyone ?

  188. ScotsRenewables

    David Caledonia, an ace dildo diva

  189. ScotsRenewables

    Very sorry to hear about Petra.

  190. Breeks

    Must confess, I know nothing about TV Stations, but there are plans afoot to sell off Channel 4.

    Now I don’t know what the asking price is, no idea what would be involved, running costs, whatever, but there’s a wee devil just appeared on my shoulder and whispered “buy it” in my ear.

    What would happen if “Scotland” raised the dosh and bought Channel 4?

    Supposing we had to crowd fund the bejesus out of it, can you imagine the YES Community owning Channel 4? Moooohahaha!

  191. Pixywine

    Hatuey. Andy Ellis. 123 Ich fahne hoch… Sing up now.

  192. Meg merrilees

    Sad to hear about Petra. Rest in Peace and do what you can from the other side.

  193. Pixywine

    Mark Windows on “Windows on the World” Spends a long time describing ” change agents” like Andy Ellis who leads the narrative down squirrel Alley.

  194. Pixywine

    Best check out Windows on the World on Bitchute as he’s largely banned on YouTube.
    I’m back commenting on YouTube again under a new pseudonym youll all be pleased to hear I think.

  195. Nana

    Sad to hear of Petra’s passing, condolences to her family.

  196. Pixywine

    Andy. “the uneducated often use the somewhat lame response…” What a prick you are.

  197. sarah

    @ Dan at 9.50: thanks for posting the link to Petra’s excellent post listing Scotland’s assets relative to England and the EU. My goodness we really could be “punching above our weight” if all that wealth was kept in our hands as a country. No wonder “UK” won’t let us go.

    RIP Petra – an honest independence supporter, as you say, Breeks.

  198. Jockanese Wind Talker

    RIP Petra.

    Another who didn’t get to see an Independent Scotland thanks to the SNPs inertia since 2014!

  199. James Che.


    I referred to the monopoly on our housing market pushing up prices for the Scots whom live, out pricing them of homes.
    Perhaps for us Scots to put it crudely it is a case, Bleed them out or Breed them out”.
    However it was within the SNPs and Scottish governments power not so long ago, to ensure this would have repercussions for those buying and owning large portions of Scotland.
    Land Tax, which the SNP and the Greens failed us on.
    When I think of the Scottish government I think of a government working against its sovereign people.

  200. Robert Graham

    I noticed yesterday the news about Petra passing a sad day for her friends and family and I offer my condolences to them , I had a few verbal spats with her and she called me very rude for questioning Princess Nicolas commitment who she trusted and worked tirelessly for a Independent Scotland its sad she was let down like the rest of us .

  201. James Che.

    Sad to belatedly learn of Petra’s passing away, our condolences to all her family and friends, her points of view will be sadly missed to all.

  202. Robert Graham

    The comments about Scots playing host to a weapon that can’t ever be used because it would be like shooting yourself in the head just to prove a point, you can only do that once .

    I won’t comment about the plague and it’s apparent cure and mini Hazmat suit in a wee glass bottle , the 24/7 propaganda beats me hands down there is no contest but the information is all out there you just have to educate yourself,

    The Nuclear stuff caught my eye and reminded me of Chernobyl once it was figured out the extent of this disaster and what was predicted to happen next , the radioactive dust cloud was predicted just like the weather and the direction of travel was well known , what wasn’t well known and was wilfully hidden from the public was the inaction of the government of the time people who should have got off their arses sat dumb and said and did nothing resulting in the death of many young women across central Scotland.

    This dereliction while in public office was criminal ,it was known Iodine administered quickly could have saved many lives I bet if it was well off people that were in Danger the fkn Army would have been mobilised at speed.

    Anything any government does I question I have direct personal knowledge of how fkn useless the people employed to do what they should be doing are failing the public the first thing is employ the umbrella to deflect any attention and cover their tracks and involvement even to the point of barefaced lying about who or what went wrong.

    So please stick your tin foil hat and Conspiracy theorist comments where the Sun don’t shine The information is all there I can’t force anyone to open their eyes and Question everything any Government wants you to believe , just look at the history of Governments big Pharma and Chemical Companies do , and what they have done and how they cover their tracks again it’s not secret it’s all there for everyone to see .

  203. Andy Ellis


    All your contributions ever amount to is foul mouthed abuse of those you disagree with, yet I’m the one leading the discussions astray? It is to laugh….

    Of course it couldn’t be long until the Godwinising started. Always a sure fire sign of the hard of thinking unable to marshal a coherent thought never mind a whole argument.

    Still at least you’re good for something even if it is only comic relief.

  204. Andy Ellis

    @James Che 12.34 pm

    Since we’re patently not breeding them out, and our governing parties are too supine to bleed them out, isn’t it passing strange that a significant of vocal minority here want to ensure a declining population by putting off immigrants and disenfranchising many of those who are already here? 😉

  205. Stoker

    A message for Nicola Sturgeon:

    May i suggest any time you speak that you jamb your eyelids open with matchsticks. It’s a nasty habit you have somehow gained since circa 2015. Rapid blinking is also very distracting to say the least.

  206. cirsium

    many thanks for posting that interview of Vera Sharav by Dr Reiner Fuellmich. This is a useful examination of the backstory to the current situation so I am going to post the URL again. I am also re-posting the link to the Nuremberg Code.

  207. Republicofscotland

    “I referred to the monopoly on our housing market pushing up prices for the Scots whom live, out pricing them of homes.”

    James Che.

    Lets not forget that Sturgeon and the SNP voted with the Tories to shoot down Andy Wightman’s proposals on land reform and how its priced in Scotland. This has also led to young folk not living in the cities to be unable to get a flat/house, in more rural areas, either not enough of them are being built, they’re too expensive, or they’re snapped up by faceless buyers who don’t live in Scotland.

    This forces young folk out of rural areas that they might have spent their whole lives in, and into the big cities, and of course the rural areas begin to decline after that, and the Home Office more often rejects immigrants coming into Scotland who might want to breathe life back into these area, unless of course its English folk tired of the rat race down South, of whom the majority want the union to remain.

  208. Republicofscotland

    ” isn’t it passing strange that a significant of vocal minority here want to ensure a declining population by putting off immigrants and disenfranchising many of those who are already here?”

    A sleekit comment Andy Ellis, you know fine well, the majority of folk South of the border want the union to remain, so enfanchising them would be defeating the purpose.

    Far better if you focused on the Home Office who’ve kept Scotland’s population small and manageable.

  209. Pixywine

    Cirsium. I’m glad to help.
    Andy Ellis. I let my temper go too easily and calling people pricks doesn’t win arguments. My apologies.

  210. Fishy Wullie

    ” isn’t it passing strange that a significant of vocal minority here want to ensure a declining population by putting off immigrants and disenfranchising many of those who are already here?”


    Yeah I agree there must be thousands of people who wont come to this country because us nativist Scots won’t let them vote on our constitutional future, maybe we should give everyone a vote whether they live here or not

  211. Republicofscotland

    Dave Caledonia @10.14am.

    Dave I see no reason why we can’t call back our MPs from Westminster to Holyrood then have a vote on whether or not to leave or stay in this rancid union, a yes vote means we declare independence there and then.

    Its got nothing to do with Westminster a foreign country’s government, I know of no other treaty in the world where one country has to ask the other one for permission to secede, and that country can say not without our permission.

    Westminster is using smoke and mirrors to make folk in Scotland believe that we cannot secede this putrid union without permission from them, and the foreign media and well placed gatekeepers, and Holyrood based turncoat politicians such as the Lib/Dems Labour and the Tories back up this false narrative.

    The most sickening part of this charade is that Sturgeon whose party the SNP was created to bring independence to Scotland is a playing along with the foreign country’s rules.

    The majority of Scots go along with it because they believe, either Sturgeon, the foreign media, or its gatekeepers and turncoat politicians when they speak on the foreign media platforms.

  212. Pixywine


  213. Republicofscotland

    Well as Johnson declares Freedom Day LNER a English railway has ditched its Covid distancing rules on trains in Scotland, of course wearing a mask is still compulsory indoors in Scotland when shopping etc, but not so for those South of the border.

    You’ll also have the jackbooted unionists in Scotland who don’t follow Holyrood’s rules, but follow the foreign government of Westminster’s rules, as they did when they downloaded the English track and trace app but not the Scots one a year or so ago.

  214. Andy Ellis

    @ Republic 2.32 pm

    Perhaps I was being mischievous, but with a ageing and in the not too distant past a declining population we do need to encourage immigrants who want to settle here, stay, contribute and (hopefully?) come to regard themselves as Scots and to support independence rather than staying in the union. That isn’t going to happen if they feel unwelcome, or if they come here for work without much of an idea about Scotland as a destination rather than any other part of the UK, and aren’t convinced that it’s in their interests to support independence rather than the status quo.

    A pro-indy majority is of course achievable without “new Scots” if we convince more “native” Scots to abandon their unionist beliefs, or we convince *some* of both groups, and/or if we push turnout higher than the 85% achieved in 2014. I’d suggest the latter two are probably easier than converting the hard core unionists vote.

  215. Robert Graham

    Aye it’s grumpy again

    I suggest the doubters check out a clip on Utube

    A Manufactured Illusion : Dr David Martin with Reiner Fuellmich

    To date 4000 Patents have been issued reguarding SARS 2 Covid the first vaccine was manufactured in the year 2000 that’s 21 years ago ! .

    Now what the fk does anyone want with a Patent for a deadly disease not just that 4000 varieties of the same shit ready to go , ready to go into a arm near you truly, it’s a biological weapon

    FFS Wakey fkn Wakey

  216. Captain Yossarian

    RoS – many of us remember the Fabiani Inquiry which exposed our bent government and bent judiciary. I will be looking for signs of that situation improving, as will the majority of Scots.

  217. Davie Oga

    Fishy Wullie

    “Yeah I agree there must be thousands of people who wont come to this country because us nativist Scots won’t let them vote on our constitutional future, maybe we should give everyone a vote whether they live here or not”

    That’s the spirit! You could get talent spotted by Scotgov. Get your pronouns in front of Fishy Wullie.

  218. Hatuey

    I would have expected the anti-sanity brigade to be out enjoying their freedoms today. It looks like they’re all here tho.

    What’s wrong, scared?

    That’s the perplexing and paradoxical thing about the anti-vaxxers — the easing of restrictions which they called for puts them, the unvaccinated, at huge risk, above all others.

    Maybe it’s all bullshit and most of them have actually been vaccinated.

    We see more clearly today than before that it’s the anti-vaxxers who want to end restrictions who are on the same side as Boris and big business, putting economics before people and public health.

    The truth of the matter is that our lockdowns have been essentially fake and very light touch throughout — the body count tells you everything you need to know.

    Anyway, covid’s in the post for the unvaccinated. Natural immunity doesn’t work either so even if you’ve had it before you are probably getting it again.

    I’ve had a close look at the numbers and forecasts.

    May God have mercy on your souls.

  219. Charles Hodgson

    F*ck off Hatuey, you miserable goblin.
    Reverend IM Jolly lives.

  220. James Che.

    Sovereignty of the Scots and the problem of understanding what that is to the Scots,
    Sovereignty of the Scots is as breeks says recorded, wrote down, neither the treaty of the union or a devolved government has changed any of that.
    When someone is given away or disowning an object or sovereignty voluntary and there are witnesses to that action, especially in writing, legally by any law that now belongs to the receiver of that gift,
    In our case that gift has come through hundreds of years like an heritable heirloom,
    The treaty of the union never touched that given gift as it is irreversible. The men whom agreed the treaty of the union did not own it, it was a gift to the people of Scotland from a monarch.
    Throughout time it has belong to the Scottish people, and is as precious as any rare gift if it had held all the gold in the world.
    For this is something many people in countries, all over the world fight for in one way or another.
    For the modern day Scot who thinks it’s old hat, that it is old rubbish, that old agreements do not count, are selectively blind,
    The treaty of the union in itself is old hat, an old crooked hat, and an old agreement, does that still stand in the eyes of some.
    This gift of sovereignty actually by passes standing governments in Scotland, and has jurisdiction above Westminster’s governments, in the treaty of the union where no sovereign Scot was included in the arrangement or talks,
    That it is acknowledged by Westminster is recorded, and by the devolved setup in Scotland,
    We have the right to this day to choose whom governs us.
    Sovereignty of people from government and monarch in early historical records and to present for nation of Scots cannot be undone,
    No matter what government thinks itself above the law.
    We the people of Scotland have never thought of using this sovereignty, although there are many instances past and present where we should have,
    The treaty of the union did not capture all the Scots as English Parliamentarians thought, it captured a few Scots whose names we see on the treaty of the union.
    The problem we have is for the sovereign Scots to declare through themselves not through the devolved government. That they and their country are now independent if we feel the Scottish government is not following the mandates we gave them, it is time to choose a new government in Scotland.

  221. twathater

    Like others I had disagreements with Petra but her allegiance and commitment to Scotland’s independence was unshakable and passionate . RIP Petra love and commiserations to your family and friends

  222. Gary45%

    Anyone else hear the Jim O’Brien show today? a guy by the name of Colin Alexander (coco??) was on today, he made quite a lot of sense.

  223. Pixywine

    Face masks in shops are NOT ” compulsory” in Scotland. Do not sign up for track and trace because its the surveillance nightmare you do not need or want. To be beholden to a fairly inconsequential virus in terms of real morbidity to give away all our freedoms is insane. This of course is only the beginning. You should go onto the United Nations website to learn what is planned for us.
    When a people allow their liberties to be removed by the 1% for an insubstantial feeling of safety from illness or dead they may as well be in prison because they are not fit to take their own destiny in their hands.
    A people who go running to the hills when Government and Bill Gates cry “BOO” have no right to discus such fine thing as sovereignty as they display a distinct lack of “sovereignty” every time they cry down a person who seeks to exercise sovereignty by ignoring loony lockdown rules.

  224. Republicofscotland


    Nicola Sturgeon has confirmed that Scotland will move down to level zero restrictions from Monday 19 July.

    “The First Minister told the Scottish Parliament the vaccination programme meant restrictions could be eased as planned next week, but with some modifications.

    Face masks will remain mandatory in public indoor settings, and the gradual return to office work has been delayed until 9 August.”

  225. Gary45%

    Cosmic space child@5.07
    Do you mean test and trace?
    I think track and trace is something to do with parcel deliveries?, both vaccines now fully loaded and I’m still not magnetic ?, although the microwave now revs up when I fart, that could be the stereo Bluetooth? I am sure you’ll give me a “medical expert” reason for that!!
    No point in me wasting oxygen getting into the “compulsory” debate.
    Keep howling at the moon (full one on the 24th), my best mate Bill G just told me via the vaccine cyber portal directly into the back of my eyes.

  226. Grouse Beater

    As an antidote to ‘Andy Ellis’s’ determination to waffle half-baked opinion:

    “Considering that colonialism is also racism, we should not be surprised that ethnicity sits at the very core of this matter, in that: ‘Being oppressed as a group, the colonized must necessarily adopt a national and ethnic form of liberation.” Albert Memmi

  227. Dan

    Ach, cracks open a tin of cider and remembers the good ol’ days when Scotland would be given the oppurtunity to determine its own future once the *”terms” of “Brexit” were known.

    * “Terms” apparently now being flexible and not necessarily as defined by the small print and legal agreement.

  228. Fred

    ‘ Natural immunity doesn’t work either so even if you’ve had it before you are probably getting it again.’

    Hatuey, of course natural immunity works in those who do not have a compromised immune system – that goes for any viral infection- cold, flu etc
    In fact, you are probably living testimony to that, in that it’s highly likely that you are a living descendant of someone who survived the Black Death. Most people didn’t survive that because they were lucky – or had a vaccine, they survived because their immune response was sufficiently strong enough to deal with it.
    As for your statement regards ‘getting it again’ – that’s quite misleading. Potentially anyone could ‘get it again’; however, once the immune system has dealt with it the first time successfully the T-cells will ‘remember’ the invader – or any variant/cousin of it, and deal with it effectively time and time again.

    So far, the most extremely removed variant of the original Wuhan strain is only 0.3% different. Remember the original SARS virus from about 17 years ago that was predicted to be an epidemic but wasn’t? That is 20% removed from Wuhan.
    Two experiments were recently done using subjects who survived the original SARS virus. Firstly, a sample was taken to see how well their T-cells coped with receiving SARS again after 17 years – and the immune response was exactly as expected – the T-cells remembered and dealt with the virus effectively.
    They then looked to see how those same T-cells would cope with the Wuhan strain of COVID. Incredibly the T-cells recognised this as a relative of SARS – and even although there was a 20% shift in profile, those T-cells dealt with it as effectively as they’d dealt with SARS.

    That’s how wonderfully amazing and intelligent your immune system is Hatuey. Don’t underestimate it or yourself. It’s the product of at least two million years of continuous testing and evolution. Compare that to our friend AZ, who’s only been around a few months, I think I know who I will place my faith in.

  229. Charles Hodgson

    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” – Benjamin Franklin

    “I’m a terrified snowflake who loves tyranny. It makes me feel all warm, safe and fuzzy. I’m a twat.” – Hazmat Hatuey

  230. James Che.

    I see protests in London are calling for Boris Johnstone to be arrested.

  231. James Che.

    Charles hodgson,
    Appropriate quote. 🙂

  232. James Che.

    Just back home after this unvaccinated person enjoyed a stroll in the country, thronged with holiday makers from down south, no one declaring wether they have been vaccinated or not, enjoying the sunshine.
    That must be a plus for the Scottish economy.

  233. Gary45%

    Everybody howl “FWEEDUMB”

  234. Hatuey

    Fred, you clearly know enough to slot comfortably into the subset “dangerous idiot”. You’re living proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

    I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume everything you said about immunity and disease rests on ignorance rather than an attempt to deceive.

    If the immune system functioned as you describe above, we wouldn’t need annual flu vaccines or vaccines for pretty much anything since immunity would be passed to children through their mothers, and we’d only ever get a common cold once.

    Needless to say, there are about 200 thousand dead people in the U.K. who support the view that the immune system isn’t all you crack it up to be.

  235. Stoker

    Or worse still, imagine they were still trying that stuff fourteen years later, eh readers?

  236. Fred

    James Che. says:
    ‘That must be a plus for the Scottish economy.’


  237. James

    I have first hand experience of anti English abuse,so I assure you it’s really a thing.
    Despite being born in Scotland to parents from Aberdeen and Gartly,able to trace their roots back as far as records allow. I have an English accent due to spending my formative years south of the border. I chose to leave my family and seek employment outside of my country. As have countless others over the years. However due to my accent I am mistaken for an Englishman. It is a source of amusement to people that my sisters etc have accents totally different to mine.
    So don’t lecture me about something you obviously know nothing about. In fact you can fuck off,eat shit and die,you snidey wee fanny.

  238. Andy Ellis

    @ Grouse Beater 5.31 pm

    Ah, still parroting the half baked Alf Baird “we wuz robbed” narrative I see? I credited you with more originality.

    Apparently you’re better at just defaming people online then refusing to apologise for it when called out for you egregious error.

    So much for men of principle, eh? Happy to take folks support when you are traduced but not above doing it to others in the movement when it suits you.

    How’s the evidence of those DMs you insist you have coming along Gareth? I not Stu singularly failed to backed you up, eh?

  239. Davie Oga

    “Needless to say, there are about 200 thousand dead people in the U.K. who support the view that the immune system isn’t all you crack it up to be.”

    Definitely. Espescially in older people. How many of those 200000 died in the so called first wave, and how many of them died as a result of deliberate government policy with regards to care homes and hospital discharges?

    Virtually the whole western world did the same.

    Who gave that order?

    These people were homicides not Covid 19. Whether or not the policy was to kill these people for the greater good is irrelevant. They were still killed by the actions of someone else. Homicide.

    Once these poor people are removed from the statistics, Covid, or what we are being told is Covid, is a low mortality flu like virus that doesn’t usually show symptoms.

    What the medical community in concert with politicians is unconscionable.

    Two years of house arrest, the collapse of a health service, lining up to be injected with experimental gene therapy, that apparently harms a lot of people, health passports, every move being tracked and traced.

    That there are people actually willing to defend this is staggering. What a world!

    Couldnt give a fuck about Covid or the stupid games anymore. Living my life the best I can.

    I’m not getting jabbed tho, neither is my child. I’m OK with anyone else getting jabbed but noone is jabbing me and my kid.

    Anyone of Mengele’s spawn tries to jab us they die.

    Unless they can summons a firearms unit. No Pasaran. I have a years supply of food, water, hydroponic system for growing, an exceptionally good tactical position, multiple legal weapons, plus I’m motivated and prepared. So good luck jab lovers, number three is coming to save you soon. But leave me and my family alone.
    Im a lover not a fighter. Except when it comes to my child, in which case I d have no problem dousing someone in petrol and making my own wee dancing wicker man.

    I’m not doing the protest thing, or going to make a big deal out of any more restrictions. Going to chill out, keep homeschooling my daughter, smoke some good herb and chillax. See how the jabbed immune system lasts the next year or two with an open mind. Winter especially. In Ireland here, the main proponent of jabtastic jabbing is a high school dropout. The health minister at the time the absurdity manifested itself was dropout as well. Both of them are olical appointments by people who you’d have to check to make sure if they told you the grass was green. I suppose that’s typical of the Jabernment and the jabby jabbers though. None of them were ever the sharpest needles in the classroom.

    Still, at least they give an opposite viewpoint to all the doctors, Heads of Hospital departments, noble prize winners, and eminent scientists whom the jabbers refer to as, right wing conspiracy nuts, lol.

  240. Fred

    “we wouldn’t need annual flu vaccines or vaccines for pretty much anything’

    If you’ve read anything i’ve posted before I have never advocated the removal of vaccines, there’s definitely a place for them in society particularly for those with compromised immune systems – the elderly and those with debilitating health conditions in particular.
    I know you would prefer me to be of the more extreme persuasion – but i’m all for medical advancement when it is managed responsibly, so i’m genuinely sorry that i don’t fit your model of an anti-vaxxer.

    I’m not here to try to convert you either – i’ve told you before that i respect your viewpoint to which you are fully entitled to keep. I will, however, correct you when make rash, unfounded or irresponsible claims – as you did above.

  241. John Main


    Wrong yet again.

    Face masks have never been compulsory.

    Face coverings maybe.

    Learn the difference. It’s not difficult.

  242. Gary45%

    Davie Oga7.24
    I think you’ve watched far too many movies son.

  243. Morgatron

    Hi all,
    Just reading for the 1st time about Petra’s passing , very sad news indeed. Unfortunately another one of us not seeing an independent Scotland. My condolences to her family and friends.

  244. Charles Hodgson

    Let’s have a poll:

    Is Hazmat Hatuey a Fud or a Bawbag?

    I vote Fud.

  245. Republicofscotland

    John Main @7.38pm.


    If your trying to get a rise out of with you constant meaningless soundbites, you’re onto plums.

    “We have made face coverings mandatory in most indoor public places, indoor communal spaces including retail, restaurants, cafes, bars and public houses, and in workplaces and on public transport. This is because transmission is most likely to occur when people are close to each other, in crowded and poorly ventilated places. Schedule 7 of the Regulations provides more information about the relevant provisions.”

    John away and play a game of tig with the buses pal.

  246. Pixywine

    Facemasks were never mandatory. No one is allowed to ask why you’re not wearing a mask or covering and you’re not obliged to divulge private medical information according to government guidelines.

  247. Pixywine

    Republic of Scotland. Do you actually believe there’s a deadly virus out here waiting to strike you down?. Do you wear a rubber hat as protection from lightning? You know after all is said and done we want our lives and freedoms back and no Hatuey we won’t come crawling to beg for your meagre grace. You and your ilk will beg to be spared the gallows.

  248. Pixywine

    Hatstand. ” natural immunity doesn’t work…” Such a funny nutcase you are.

  249. Davie Oga

    Gary45% says:
    19 July, 2021 at 7:41 pm
    Davie Oga7.24
    I think you’ve watched far too many movies son.

    Aye, but this one’s real interesting. because you don’t know if the good guys are going to win in the end. Most of the others you could tell how it would end half way through.

  250. Breeks

    Nana says:
    19 July, 2021 at 11:59 am
    Sad to hear of Petra’s passing, condolences to her family.

    Hi Nana. Long time no hear. Hope you’re keeping well. 🙂

  251. JimuckMac

    The Scottish Government tried to be clever and avoid breeching international law in relation to the fundamental principles of the Nuremberg Code by using the term face covering rather than mask.

    Under Article 6 Section 3 of the Nuremberg Code it would be seen as a war crime to force any population into the wearing of a mask because a mask is seen as a medical intervention under this code.

    Sturgeon has committed war crimes because of the above. Nobody ever had to wear a mask or face covering.

    Start building the gallows.

  252. Republicofscotland

    Pixywine @ 8.19pm.

    I know people who have died from Covid, so don’t give all that conspiracy shit about no one dying from it.

    In saying that there appears to be less deaths now that more folk have been vaccinated, the goal I suppose is to stop hospitals from filling up again with patients and putting the NHS under serious pressure above the pressure it already faces.

    Is the vaccine safe,(Astrazeneca) it would appear that for the majority of folk it is, does it have side effect, all drugs have side effects, have people died yes, has it been properly tested, in my opinion I recall drugs need seven years trials and tests to be officially safe for the market, however we didn’t have that long, we needed something quickly so no its no been tested to its full extent I think.

    Has the (Astrazeneca) jab saved lives I would say undoubtedly it has, how do we know this well, there’s been a marked improvement in the number of deaths now being reported, and patient figures have subsided.

    Should we just throw caution to the wind and open everything up and stop wearing face coverings, well, cases would surely rise, but most wouldn’t need hospitalised, but whose to say many more probably would need taken to hospital, again putting enormous pressure on the service.

    We’ve come this far, a few more months of caution won’t make much of a difference.

  253. Brian Doonthetoon

    Jonathan King was once described as “having his finger on the pulse” of popular music. And we all know how that went…

    Pishfart here demonstrating that he can’t even find the pulse of Scottish desire…

  254. Hatuey

    Fred, claiming to respect my opinion will not absolve you. You said, and I quote;

    “Don’t underestimate it or yourself. It’s the product of at least two million years of continuous testing and evolution. Compare that to our friend AZ, who’s only been around a few months, I think I know who I will place my faith in.”

    200 thousand miraculous British immune systems failed in the fight against covid-19. Worldwide we are probably looking at another 5 million.

    On an immunological level, what you argue above makes exactly no sense and reveals you to be out of your depth.

    Why? Because the false dichotomy you presume with vaccination on one hand and the immune system on the other is completely senseless — vaccines (all of them) work in harmony with the immune system. Vaccines depend on the immune system.

    AstraZeneca which you single out for some odd reason is an old fashioned viral vector vaccine. To reject AstraZeneca on the basis of the technology behind it, is essentially to reject all vaccines (apart from the new mRNA based vaccines) which as I understand it makes you an anti-vaxxer.

  255. JimuckMac

    Nobody has died if Covid 19.

    Scottish hospital death figures.


    The figures can be found in the National Registers of Scotland

    Where are Sturgeons 10,000 Scottish Covid deaths?

    Start building those gallows.

  256. Republicofscotland

    “The figures can be found in the National Registers of Scotland”


    Yet you conveniently forgot to post the link to the figures.

    Knowing that Sturgeon is a treacherous lying b*stard is one thing, believing folk in here, that no one has died from Covid is another.

  257. Republicofscotland

    “200 thousand miraculous British immune systems failed in the fight against covid-19. Worldwide we are probably looking at another 5 million.”


    Between 20 and 50 million people died after contracting the Spanish flu, your above figures are simply unremarkable. The Black Plague killed an estimated 25 million people which was equal to almost a third of Europe’s population at the time, again your figures pale into comparison.

  258. Hatuey

    Republic, first of all, they aren’t my figures. Secondly, I’ve written in detail about Spanish flu on this forum.

    Your point seems to pivot on the idea that this pandemic is over. It isn’t. It’s just starting.

    And incidentally, Spanish flu did most damage in its 2nd and 3rd waves. Most of the world is somewhere between wave 1 and 2 right now as far as coronavirus is concerned.

    Your numbers for the plague are debatable btw, but since i don’t care there’s no point In arguing.

  259. Republicofscotland

    “Your numbers for the plague are debatable btw, but since i don’t care there’s no point In arguing.”


    They’re not my figures, and I’m not arguing with you I’m merely debating.

    Of course you don’t care, it doesn’t fit in with the narrative.

  260. JimuckMac

    Here you go Republic…

    Now go show me evidence of a Covid 19 death in Scotland?

  261. JimuckMac

    The only thing that masks are protecting are the egos of those that refuse to admit that they have been duped.

  262. Nana

    Hi Breeks,
    I’m fine thanks, still popping in here from time to time.
    Good to see some of the old time wingers like yourself commentating.
    Take care

  263. JimuckMac

    Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things turned ugly and focused on happier things than ‘politics’. They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbours were dragged away.

    You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.

    Naomi Shulman.

  264. sog

    Well, I can be grateful that the Corona Virus nutters seem to have wiped out the Blood and Soil extremists, even so this place is no longer the home of sensible Scottish politics with real numbers. It leaves me no reason to return, lest I see a takeover by Flat Earthers or GR activists.

  265. John Main

    RepublicOfScotland – 8:06 pm

    “If your trying to get a rise out of with you constant meaningless soundbites, you’re onto plums.”

    Not really Republic, but I have concluded that Covid is too important to let nonsense posts go unchallenged, and you have made several nonsense posts on this thread. (Don’t get me started on your “Great Satan” pish – 19 July, 2021 at 10:28 am).

    You claimed facemasks are mandatory.

    I called you out on that by pointing out that face coverings are mandatory (with exceptions).

    There’s a big difference between a face mask and a face covering. The evidence you present here is that you are blind to that difference.

    Let me quote Stewie at you: “Educate yourself dude”.

    OK, I’ve started on your “Great Satan” diatribe – too late to stop. This is Wings Over Scotland, not Jihad Over Tehran. Maybes get somebody else to check your input before you post. They might be able to tell you truthfully if your foam-flecked anti-American rants are attracting or repelling converts to the cause of Scottish Independence.

  266. Al-Stuart

    Hi Andy,

    Just wanted to say keep fighting the good fight Mr Ellis.

    I read your rejoinders to Pixywine and her/his/it’s tantrum calling someone a child.

    Why must the anonymii keep resorting to the ad hominem attacks?

    Andy you and Breeks along with a few other decent and thoughtful posters here make the occasional visit worthwhile.

    Thankyou for your insight.

    Am also delighted to still have Alba there and am happy to keep the regular monthly payment going to Alba.

    As for Pixywine’s whine about having no interest in Alex Salmond. Might I remind her/him/it that…

    Alex Salmond is the only person in Scotland that secured us an Independence Referendum in 300 years.

    Oh how the feeble forget the great and hitch their minescule vote to the latest passing bandwagon that suits there impotent needs.

    One last curious point?

    What happened to the uber troll, Rock/Kcor/Andy/Dave/Indy4Labour/Eugene/Gordon?

    He seemed to evaporate like snow aff a dyke. Right around the time the gerrymandered Holyrood election was over.

    By “gerrymandered”, I mean the fact that ALL the media acted in concert to REMOVE the oxygen of air-time from the Alba Party.

    Once Murrell is taken into custody for questioning under caution and ordinary (uninformed) electorate wake up to the crooks and political careerists who have stolen the SNP, they will be looking for a new home to place their vote.

    Alba will be there and ready.

    Any doubts about how fast and far the SNP will fall and lose ALL of its seats, just look at New Labour.

  267. Breastplate

    Remember that those immune systems you talk of were the immune systems of predominantly octogenarians and older.

    I think many people have forgotten that the goalposts have been moved a number of times from a 3 week lockdown to flatten the curve to stay home, save lives and protect the NHS,
    then it was protect the vulnerable
    then we were told with the vaccines coming along we could get back to normal once the vulnerable had their vaccine,
    then we were told you could still contract the virus and carry the virus
    then we were told we would need 2 jabs,
    then we were told that the virus was endemic,
    then we were told there was a worse variant,
    then we were told everyone over 50 would need to get vaccinated and we would still need a lockdown,
    then we were told there was an even worse variant and wouldn’t know if the vaccination would work as thought,
    then we were told everyone older than 18 would need vaccinated,
    then we were told there was an even worse variant,
    we are now being told that kids need to be vaccinated,
    we are now being told the vaccines aren’t as protective as we first thought,
    we are now being told we will need vaccine passports to take part in certain aspects of society,
    we are now being told that we need a booster possibly every 6 months.

    I’ve skipped a few variants and other details but I suppose it’s a good example of nought to Nazi in 60 seconds.

    Andy Ellis will appreciate Godwin’s Law but if nobody can see parallels with 1930s Germany then that’s probably where they would belong.

  268. Hatuey

    What sort of diabolical fuckwit goes on and on about Godwin’s Law whilst calling people Nazis?

    Then he goes on to moan about goalposts being moved, as if anyone here chose any of this? What the fuck?

    Would you like to make a complaint to the goalposts department? Do you think we work for the goalposts department?

    Nobody with an ounce of sanity could possibly support the British Government’s handling of this nightmare.

    To try and pin that handling on anyone here is beyond ridiculous, especially when the anti-vaxxer crackpot position (which includes opposition to vaccines, lockdowns, masks, and social distancing) is essentially identical to the Tory Government’s “keep the beaches open at all costs” position.

    You’re the nazi, breastplate. You’re the one exhibiting a complete disregard for human life. You’re the one towing Boris’s line and providing another useful idiot to the business community who by and large want all their little workers back at the coal face, buying their wares, etc.

    There’s a very simple way of determine where people stand. Have a look at the tabloid scumbag rags — your position has been on their front pages throughout. It’s basically identical, although they aren’t dumb enough to openly call more cautious and intelligent people nazis.

  269. Breastplate

    No need to throw the toys out of the pram.
    The goalposts have been moved at regular intervals and will continue to be moved.
    You have been a cheerleader every step of the way no matter their position, I don’t expect that to change.

  270. Fred

    ‘200 thousand miraculous British immune systems failed in the fight against covid-19.’

    Hatuey, that’s a completely meaningless figure, a Straw Man designed to detract from the truth. The majority of those deaths, as you well know, were Octo and Nonagenarians but it suites your agenda not to disclose that, as it suited your agenda to throw in the figures from England and Wales to make it look like a figure on par with a real epidemic – to which you’ve already been called out by Republic.

    You posit that statement to make it read as if it was 200,000 surplus deaths – and although every death, no matter the cause, is a tragedy for someone – most of those deaths would have likely, and sadly, been included in the count for 2020 anyway. (Of which there is always over half a million!)
    OK, If we go by the Hatuey method, and we subtract that 200K from the actual UK 2020 death toll we are left with approx 415K deaths – the lowest UK death count on record for decades! Surely now, by Reductio ad Absurdum, you must see how how farcical your position is.

    The truth is that, and we are talking about the entire UK now, yes a ‘blip’ happened in 2020(only when we only look at the previous decade); however, there were more deaths in the UK per head of population every single year from 1990 right through to 2003 than were produced in the year 2020.

    From a purely historical point of view, nothing extraordinary has happened at all except the wholesale gullibility of a large majority of the UK public – you included.

  271. Hatuey

    That’s better, Fred. Now everyone can see you’re straightforwardly an anti-vaxxer and we only have one mask to worry about.

    You started this “conversation” by waxing lyrical about the evolutionary perfection of the human immune system. I correctly pointed out that it had failed to protect at least 200,000 British people and now you’re objecting to that fact by telling me most of them were old people (who don’t seem to qualify as human beings worthy of life in your framework) whilst at the same time casting doubt on the number itself.

    Do you have an original point to make? Because we’ve been up to our necks in this vile crap for over a year…

    Interesting that those who are prone to calling people nazis are so comfortable and cavalier with the unnecessary deaths of 200,000 human beings.

    Have you always believed the life of elderly people was worthless or is it a recent thing?

  272. Saffron Robe

    10,220 deaths have been registered in Scotland where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate up to 11 July.

    Population of Scotland = 5,454 Million (2019)

    Percentage of people in Scotland who have died with Covid-19 mentioned on the death certificate = 0.2%

    N.B. This is only the number of deaths where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate. The actual number of deaths where Covid-19 was the main cause of death will be much lower.

    It is also worth noting that since the start of the outbreak, 33% of Covid-19 registered deaths related to deaths in care homes (as at 11 July).

  273. Hatuey

    Breast “You have been a cheerleader every step of the way no matter their position, I don’t expect that to change.”

    Okay but it isn’t true.

    I’ve been critical of government policy since before the start of this crisis, critical of herd immunity, critical of letting foreigners walk into the country, critical of the decision to suppress rather than eradicate the virus, critical of the consequences of all those decisions (lockdowns, care home deaths, economic and social dislocation, lost schooling, etc.) and more…

    As I’ve said countless times, the position of people like you is much closer to Boris’s position than mine.

    It’s remarkable that you, pixy, and the rest can delude yourselves into thinking you’re anti-establishment rebels when just about everything you say is on the front page of the tabloids and is ideologically identical to government policy.

    Anyway, you’ve got your wish. We are opening up and the virus is going to run free and wild.

    We will soon see if the virus and the vaccine are real.

  274. Charles Hodgson

    Always remember that Hazmat Hatuey, and those like him, are attempting to destroy society as we knew it up until the Covid outbreak

    They want a compliant population who will meekly accept whatever is thrown at them by Govt, so long as it is in the perceived “public interest”.

    Don’t be afraid of being called a “conspiracy theorist” by people like him. They are attempting to destroy critical thinking and healthy scepticism and mental rigour. In other words, the hallmarks of a free society

    We could be at a critical juncture in world history. Be careful we do not allow ourselves to sleepwalk into a dystopia, along with the “correct thinkers” who follow unquestioningly the likes of Schwab and Gates and Soros and Blair (and Whitty and Fauci), and all the social reconstructionist promoters of the “great reset”.

    We know the calamitous results this kind of complete control has had in humanity’s recent past. This guy would have believed Poland invaded Germany, if that is what his Govt told him.

  275. Clavie Cheil

    How many of us who voted for the SNP in Constituency votes at the Holyrood Elections are now feeling like suckers? I freely admit to feeling such feelings. Never again for me at any vote.

  276. Fred

    Saffron Robe says
    ‘The actual number of deaths where Covid-19 was the main cause of death will be much lower’

    Hi Saffron, yes i agree and when all is said and done in the year 2020 up to February 2021 the amount of people who died solely of COVID and nothing else, in Scotland, was a mere 596.

    0.0001 % of the population.

  277. David Caledonia

    If you have had the virus within 28 days of dying its put down as dying from it, even though the real cause of your death was something like terminal lung cancer.
    Peter Green, my all time fav guitar player died because of covid, its on his death certificate, so it must be true.
    The problem with this is, Peter had so many underlying health problems most of his fans like me, where amazed he managed to last so long, he went on a drug bender in germany decades ago and he never did recover from it, destroyed his mind and ruined his life, we went from the great blues band called Fleetwood Mac to whatever it became after peter left them

  278. Andy Ellis

    @Al Stuart 10.54 pm

    Thanks for the “big up”! It’s a sair fecht sometimes, but somebody has to do it eh? Hope you are surviving in these difficult times. As you say, here’s hoping Alba can develop in to something worth supporting that actually delivers change.

    It struck me listening to discussions on the radio recently about the handling of Covid-19 that our anti-vaxxer and lockdown sceptic friends are in fact in lockstep with Boris Johnson and the wing of the Tory party which absolutely prioritises the economy over public health and safety.

    Just this morning Dominic Cummings was regaling us with the (entirely plausible) snippet that BoJo opposed the first lockdown because it was only old people that were dying. The hard of thinking will however continue their quixotic Godwinising that anyone advocating vaccination, or continuing lockdown or precautions is an ACTUAL brownshirt. If it weren’t so transparent it’d be comical.

    The sad thing is finding out how many people you’d thought were otherwise reasonable fall for this woo-woo: there again look how many people steadfastly supported Trump and Boris Johnson no matter how regressive and incompetent they proved to be.

    You can indeed fool some of the people all of the time….

  279. Scot Finlayson

    Is the Scottish Gov or She /Her going to do anything to stop these, potentially, Covid infested trains coming here from England,

    or is She/Her just going to let them for fear of offending our English immigrants.

  280. David Caledonia

    I was on a local site in my area but I had to leave after about a year as it was utter pish.
    One woman seemed to think that the site needed to be reminded of everybodys birthday, every anniversary, and be told who had just died, and to crown it all, she even wished the dead a happy birthday in heaven, this was the site of shite that I had to leave, I loaded all sorts of interesting stuff but all they where interested in was all the stuff I have just mentioned
    Education is a wonderful thing, so where did it all go wrong, and why has it all gone wrong is more to the point

  281. Sensible Dave

    Confused 10:44 pm

    You wrote: “Ellis – you are starting to sound a bit like sensible dave; on a mission to civilise the BTL barbarians?”

    Oi! Mine is a fully inclusive, full diversity, comprehensive mission to educate and inform whilst providing stunning insight, wit and humour. Everyone deserves to read my words not just ….

  282. David Caledonia

    As I have said before, I have been getting some kind of jab since I was about 5 years old and I am coming to the end of my seventh decade on this pile of shite. ( would be ok without humans )
    Still as fit as a butchers dog, gave up the fags on the 12th July and will never touch them again
    Have 2 bottles of wine in the fridge and two punts of black grapes, a fridge that has so much tucker in it that I could give the big supermarket a run for its money
    Anyway, get the vaccine, don’t get the vaccine, kiss me on both cheeks if you like, but not on my arse, I have my standards, I dont just let any old tom dick or harry kiss me down below the waterline, if you die, don’t blame me, if you live till your a hundred don’t blame me, its your own fault for taking care of your body.
    I have one ambition left, I am determined to get a birthday card from king billy on my 100 hundreth birthday, its amazing when you think about it.

    I could get a birthday card from someone who is not
    even aware I exist, isn’t that a pisser lol

  283. Breeks

    I stand by what I said about COVID, and how it should be treated as an off topic subject. The primary reason for saying so is staying focussed on Scottish Independence.

    The second reason, is that the whole COVID narrative doesn’t ring true. We have a pandemic that isn’t a pandemic, and a vaccine that isn’t a vaccine not doing what a vaccine does.

    It’s almost a pandemic. It spreads like one, but doesn’t kill people like one. Which is just as well, because humanity as failed dismally controlling the contagion.

    The vaccine isn’t a vaccine. The vaccine for smallpox wiped out smallpox. Boom. Take that Smallpox! The vaccine for measles contains the threat of measles and vastly reduced the proliferation of the disease. TB, Polio, whooping cough, were all contained and controlled by vaccines. Vaccines work. The COVID vaccine isn’t doing that to COVID. The COVID “vaccines” are just suppressing COVID, and I think it will lead to yet more misplaced over-confidence.

    But the BIG danger from COVID is that by treating it as the murderous pandemic it might have been but isn’t, we are inuring people to the threat posed by a “real” murderous pandemic, and the control mechanisms which we have now become much, much, too complacent about.

    I’m not saying the alarm about COVID was crying wolf. The alarm was 100% appropriate. But the “anti-wolf” protocols after the initial alarm have been proven ineffective. The protocols can’t tell if the wolf is dangerous, or not even a wolf at all, and we only know for sure after the wolf has bitten us. And secondly, once human attempts at containment have failed, in a “live action scenario”, humanity dies, because the 7th Cavalry of big Pharma vaccines take too long to make.

    The “story” of COVID is the “dry run” which should have exposed our failings and loopholes, warned us about the criticality of stopping human movement in and out of infected zones, because the determining factor in how many people die if the “next” COVID is the fatal man-killer everybody fears.

    COVID has shown us our global pandemic containment protocols don’t work already, and worse, we now have large sections of society who will not respect or comply with lockdowns because they now have no confidence in them, and a similar section of society with plunging confidence in vaccination, because that too is now perceived more as a con than certainty.

    COVID will come and go, or might actually stay, but as a species, we seem dumb enough and determined enough NOT to learn the lessons which will save lives “next” time. We have reacted half heartedly, we have deployed half measures without rigour or urgency, and by the grace of god, COVID hasn’t been lethal to 90% of or population, so everybody is rejoicing that we’ve survived a global pandemic, and we so very much have not.

    “Lockdown” doesn’t mean a convenient token gesture or bikini alert status. Lockdown means borders are shut, planes don’t fly, vehicles don’t move, people don’t move, and ALL people are forced to comply. An effective “Lockdown” hitting a country will be two or three notches more onerous and oppressive than martial law. Your squaddies aren’t deployed giving injections to people, they’re out arresting or even shooting people who break lockdown, and erecting barricades across roads and railways, and parking vehicles on runways so aircraft cannot land. That is what a lockdown is, and the preparedness to put it ALL in place virtually instantly.

    All these daily briefings, statistics, infections, etc, etc, etc, It’s all guff, half baked posturing, and misplaced complacency. We are alive because COVID-19 wasn’t a man killer. If it was, we’d mostly all be dead by now.

  284. David Caledonia

    Well its 9 am now, time I did some work, this fecking house will not renovate itself, …….. just had a great idea for a business

    The self renovating house, can’t call it that, people will
    know its a scam if I say that, think lad, think, whay can
    you call it, aww feck knows what to call it, I know what
    I can do, I’ll give my copywriter a buzz on the old telling
    bone, if anyone can write a load of shit its him, he’s the
    biggest lying bustared I know, who wants to be a millionaire
    I do, la,la,lala, lala, la la… I do

  285. Republicofscotland

    “I called you out on that by pointing out that face coverings are mandatory (with exceptions).”

    John Main @10.36pm.

    For the love of God John, I posted the link straight from the Scottish Governments website that INCLUDED the exemptions, try reading a link every once in a while you might learn something.

  286. Republicofscotland


    Thank you for posting the link.

    “Since the start of the outbreak:

    7,800 people have died who have tested positive as at 19 July
    10,220 deaths have been registered in Scotland where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate up to 11 July
    33% of COVID-19 registered deaths related to deaths in care homes, 61% were in hospitals and 7% were at home or non-institutional settings (as at 11 July)”

    Also Jim this link.

  287. David Caledonia

    Aunties biotics

    I have a great admiration for viruses, they are clever, when they come up against something new they fight it by getting stronger themselves
    Take for example menengitis which my son had many years ago, only thing between him and death was aunties biotics, I had explained to all my family the danger of using aunties biotics for everything under the sun, and my son went to hospital they pumped him full of my aunties biotics and he made a full recovery, he is 45 and just like his old poppy, as fit as a butchers dug

  288. David Caledonia

    Only links i bother with are the kind you put in the pan and sing, oh its frying time again, your gonna feed me lol

  289. Republicofscotland

    This is an interesting link that might suggest, that Covid has superceded the flu over the last eighteen months, and possibly that’s why deaths especially in Scotland, have remained roughly the same only the virus name has changed, just a thought.

    This link covers England and Wales.

  290. Breastplate

    I’ve already tried to explain to you that there are consequences for everything we do, there is just no getting away from it. So when you pick as your all time favourite of Lockdown on the corona hit list for saving lives it sounds hip and clever but in the real world, it impacts massively and negatively on the third world in terms of lives lost.

    Maybe black lives don’t matter to you or maybe you don’t understand that actions have much wider ramifications than just outside your front door.
    This is without mentioning the negative consequences regarding mental well-being, physical well-being and a whole array of societal problems that will last decades.

    Maybe you’ll tell yourself this is a load of rubbish and the lockdown has saved millions more, maybe you need to.

  291. Breastplate

    With respect, Scottish independence has been on the back burner for a while and nothing imminent is going to happen. Pretty much everyone here is pro self determination, one could argue that everyone is pro independence just maybe not pro Scottish independence.

    The coronavirus debate, I find is perhaps spikey at times but nevertheless entertaining and would argue that it is topical and impacts on the independence campaign.

    So I believe it is relevant but I would also like to see it slip down the agenda with independence replacing it.
    So in essence, I agree with you.

  292. JimuckMac

    At last Republic you are starting to work it out.

    The Scottish Government have rebranded flu/pneumonia as Covid 19.

    There’s never been published a peer reviewed paper proving the existence of Covid 19 as a coronavirus.

  293. Breeks

    Breastplate says:
    20 July, 2021 at 10:14 am

    The coronavirus debate, I find is perhaps spikey at times but nevertheless entertaining and would argue that it is topical and impacts on the independence campaign…

    Fair comment Breastplate.

    If I’m totally honest, much of my exasperation comes from just seeing or hearing Sturgeon the Betrayer endlessly whining on about COVID, as if we owe our lives to her, and it just get’s right under my skin.

    She’s fkg useless at everything she touches, but wafts about like some deity, when all I see is a crook and a charlatan. COVID is her agenda of choice, which is why I’d like to drop kick the COVID agenda into orbit.

  294. Republicofscotland

    “The Scottish Government have rebranded flu/pneumonia as Covid 19.”


    That’s quite a claim Jim, have you evidence to prove it.


    “Peer-Reviewed Publications about COVID-19 (Coronavirus) by Yale Authors”

  295. Breastplate

    Agreed, I’d rather be talking about indyref2 we are having this year but alas, we put a bunch of charlatans into power instead.

  296. James Che.

    Let’s keep this about independence,
    So here we are talking about covid,
    Why not?
    At this moment in time everyone has come under some of restriction of movement or been locked up.
    This has political connotations.

    Can the devolved government legally give the word by law and enforcement to lock Scottish people into their homes or have mandatory injections or medical passport by policing and fines to a recognised sovereign people. NO.

    Can it be advisory ( without) legal enforcement, YES,
    IS Nicola sturgeon and a devolved government claiming she holds sovereignty of the Scottish people in her hands?
    Or was that sovereignty given to the Scots people? There is a distinction by law and historical records.
    Those promoting enforced vaccines in Scotland knowingly or unknowingly are taken Nicola sturgeon’s superiority stance that she is queen of the Scots sovereignty.

    To take the vaccine or not to have the vaccine is a sovereign choice in Scotland, with legal rights attached.
    The likes of hatuey ( paid or unpaid) are here to cause divide and take you’re minds away from independence, to run rough shod over your rights and your sovereignty.
    YES it is a very important topic politically to the Scots, it has been used by NS to subdue politics as Brexit was,
    But she does not think it important enough to close Scottish Borders, stop flights, stop trains and ensure no deaths of covid in care homes any more than BJ did.
    It’s politics for the politicians and good for stopping marches and protests. It certainly stopped the independence rallies and marches over the last year and a half, as did Brexit.

  297. Mia

    Interesting comments from Mr Alyn Smith:

    “The SNP boycotts the House of Lords,”

    Does it, Mr Smith?

    Because from where I am standing Sturgeon’s SNP appears to be enabling it, not boycotting it. Just like they have been enabling, rather than boycotting, never mind stopping, the theft of our powers, assets and our EU citizenship.

    The only thing Sturgeon’s SNP has boycotted, and continues to do to this day, is Scotland’s independence and autonomy.

    Nicola Sturgeon has been for close to SEVEN YEARS in power and she has done Fck all to end that House of Lords, Mr Smith. She has had over TWO THOUSAND AND FOUR HUNDRED days when she could have ended that house of lords the same she could have ended the House of Commons. But she hasn’t.

    So no, Sturgeon’s SNP is not “boycotting” the House of Lords, Mr Smith. She, and you together with the other SNP MPs and MSPs, are enabling it to continue. The only thing Sturgeon has been doing for the last 6 years is to pull us away from independence instead of pushing us towards it. By allowing her to do that instead of stopping her, so do you.

    “We don’t think it’s a credible organisation”

    So why do you and your pals in Sturgeon’s SNP allow it to continue, Mr Smith?

    Scotland sent SNP MPs to take 80% of its seats in Westminster. You could have ended the union and the House of lords every single day since 8th May 2015. But you haven’t. If you really did not think the HoL is a credible organisation, you would have ended it instead of simply claim to boycott it.

    “I’ve got friends in the House of Lords who are doing their best to reform it”

    “Reform”, Mr Smith? And why a Scottish nationalist would ever want to just “reform” a wholly undemocratic structure where Scotland is not represented, instead of being done with it, if it is not because they wish it to continue instead of to end?

    Did you actually forget your nationalism when you said that or you are not discarding the possibility of accepting a seat in that undemocratic chamber yourself if the price is right?

    Or is it that Sturgeon’s party only looks moderately pro independence and moderately democratic when a wholly undemocratic structure by nature remains in the picture?

    “That’s all fine”

    Is it?
    Seven wasted years do not seem fine to me, Mr Smith. They seem like an appalling and totally unjustifiable waste. In fact it sounds like a betrayal of the raison d’etre of the party. A betrayal of the patience and good will of yes voters.

    “But the fact is Ruth Davidson has run away from the voters in Scotland”

    So has Nicola Sturgeon. Seven years running away from the pro independence voters fabricating excuse after excuse after excuse after excuse to no deliver what she was elected to deliver:

    Scotland’s independence.

    “She ran away from Edinburgh Central”
    I doubt it. What is more likely is that she was asked to move aside so Mr Robertson, the next establishment puppet tasked with the preservation of the union while keeping “public opinion” in Scotland on a leash, could get in to take over the farcical, eviscerated SNP that Nicola Sturgeon has created when the time is right and they can no longer find a lid big enough to cover her mess.

    Sturgeon’s SNP, of which you are part of, has become at all practical effects a devolutionist party, a neo liberal spin off from New Labour whose main mission is to keep the union going, protect the interests of the British state at the expense of those of the Scottish people and that only keeps the SNP name to hoover up yes votes.

    “she could have stood again, but she didn’t”
    What should she stand for? Nicola Sturgeon is doing a wonderful job to keep Scotland in the union by herself, Mr Smith. And so are you. Much better job that Ms Davidson could have ever done. As per credibility as a pro indy FM, who needs that when you can unleash the lord advocate or a corrupt to the core COPFs to do the dirty work of silencing dissent?

    “And she now doesn’t need to worry about democracy for the rest of her days”

    Well, like Sturgeon has ever worried about democracy in the last 6 years when she brushed democratic mandate after democratic mandate for indyref under the carpet, forced on us toxic bills that nobody voted for and well, let’s not start about the Keating’s case.

    “for the rest of her days”, Mr Smith? Does that comment of yours mean that you expect your party to be so utterly useless from now on that even if we send 59 SNP MPs to Westminster you would not move your backside even an inch to end that house of lords and DELIVER what you have been voted in to deliver, which is no whinging against the tories and deflection, but SCOTLAND’S INDEPENDENCE?

    Just tell us, why should we ever vote for you again when all you
    and your Sturgeon’s SNP MPs have done since you arrived to Westminster is wasting Scotland’s time and resources by helping to preserve institutions like the HoC and the HoLs you were voted precisely to end?

    Isn’t it great, Mr Smith, to have somebody like Ms Davidson to attack and to distract our attention from the fact that Sturgeon’s SNP have failed for SEVEN YEARS, to deliver and that for SEVEN YEARS have failed to uphold democracy by brushing under the carpet our democratic mandates and forcing on us toxic policies and bills nobody asked for?

    You can only fool some people all of the time, Mr Smith. The appalling performance of Sturgeon’s SNP party in the last SEVEN YEARS of delivering absolutely nothing other than noise, waffle and a continuous ego contest against England tory leaders, will see more and more people waking up at what monumental fraud the SNP under Sturgeon has become.

    Perhaps it would not be such a bad idea for yourself to take a seat in the HoLs, Mr Smith so you can reform it from the inside, as you seem to want to do. After all, isn’t the HoLs where all the political rejects that have outlived their usefulness for the English establishment and that are wanted out of the way, are sent after all?

  298. Hatuey

    The lockdowns that the anti-sanity brigade criticise (and seemingly hate) were actually caused by the anti-sanity brigade.

    The same is true of mandatory masks and social distancing — all direct consequences of the “keep the beaches open” (aka herd immunity) crap that Boris, Nicola, and the tabloids sold to the gullible morons of the world.

    This would all have been over in a few weeks had we let men of conscience dictate the strategy, with no need for masks or anything. We would have locked the virus out and eradicated it completely in a few weeks.

    People are saying this is a distraction from other more important issues like independence. Jesus, where do you start?

    If they can trick the dumb peasants into cheering for their own deaths in the name of getting back to their shit jobs, I have to wonder what chance we have of getting anywhere when it comes to independence.

    Not one person had to die of coronavirus in the UK.

    Not one.

  299. Captain Yossarian

    @James Che – James, I have been dealing with Holyrood for 6-years. Believe me, they’re crooks; every one of them from Conservative to Labour to SNP to Green.

    We can start talking about sovereignty after the shit is emptied from Holyrood. Empty the joint and start again. We need some honest folk from this country of ours or else stick with Westminster. It’s a lot safer.

  300. stuart mctavish

    Breatplate @11:03

    Iimagine getting 3 weeks to flatten the curve on the patio (its no small patio) and still being on the job 18 months later

    Gig like that and you can see why some girls might choose to take their client’s serum and wear whatever outrageous kit gets ordained – irrespective of whether cat whistles, knee squeezing and hair flicking elsewhere require a foolaround method statement, risk assessment and big boss stamped consent forms all agreed in triplicate – but subject to retroactive change by an omniscient four eyed steering committee turning a blind one to whatever it chooses in any event..

    Others might be more concerned about the long term effect of same on motherhood full stop, let alone responsible parenting, so sooner Holyrood formally condemns the creeping practice (elsewhere) of enforced medication the better imho.

  301. Mia

    “The lockdowns that the anti-sanity brigade criticise (and seemingly hate) were actually caused by the anti-sanity brigade”

    Nope. The continuous lockdowns have been caused by an incredibly weak, unprincipled and dishonest bunch of politicians who do not have the balls to actually close the borders and stop the virus continuously entering Scotland. Australia and New Zealand demonstrated it can be done. But they have proper PMs in charge, mind, not a Westminster’ lackey, allergic to autonomy and Scotland’s independence as FM.

    The delta variant, the same as the kent variant, the Spanish variant, the Italian variant, the South African variant, etc did not arrive in Scotland inside an envelope, a suitcase or a package. It got in because the nationalists only in name that are in charge of our government, are happily following the diktat of England’s governments and scared stiff to act as a nationalist government and close those darn borders.

    What is the point in keeping Scottish citizens locked in and having a Track and Trace team working flat out while you keep the doors for infected individuals from abroad to come in, wide open?

    From the health point of view, absolutely none. It seems like setting the whole thing up to fail. Unless of course, the lockdown serves other political purpose, such as stopping pro indy demonstrations, an excuse to delay indyref or stopping people seeing the real damage brexit is causing. It that was the case, you could completely understand why there would be a continuous need for the virus variant of the day to keep going through the population to maintain the rate of infections (and deaths) so the need of the lockdown remains credible.

    An attempt to bring this virus under control can only ever be credible if those in charge close shut the main portal of entry of all those variants into Scotland, just like Australia and New Zealand are doing. For as long as they keep that portal of entry open, the lockdown is futile and nothing more than a damage limitation tool to keep the number of infections on a leash.

  302. JimuckMac

    Sadly Republic, your link does not provide the evidence I’m looking for that Covid 19 exists as a coronavirus.

    I wash hoping you were going to provide information on Covid 19’s purification and isolation under the Koch Postulate system.

  303. Willie

    Alyn Smith the gay MEP oeave a light on for Scotland stage show before getting parachuted into Stirling for a sinecure at Westminster.

    And the loose at the mouth Daddy Bear defamed one Nigel Farage who sued Smith successfully in court for his comments.

    But who paid Smyths legal bills. Anecdotal comment is that the hapless SNP members paid for his personal legal advice trying to defend the defamation damages action.

    And with reports that the SNP were also paying for legal advice for Peter Murrell, that maybe explains where some of the missing £660k has gone.

    Question now is with a formal police investigation into the missing money, who is advicing Murrell et al – and paying for it in a near ankrupt SNP.

  304. John Main


    “An effective “Lockdown” hitting a country will be two or three notches more onerous and oppressive than martial law. Your squaddies aren’t deployed giving injections to people, they’re out arresting or even shooting people who break lockdown, and erecting barricades across roads and railways, and parking vehicles on runways so aircraft cannot land. That is what a lockdown is”

    Too true Breeks.

    Obvs the squaddies aren’t locked down. Or the prison operatives processing the arrested quarantine violators. Or the burial squads for the violators who get shot. Food distributors, sewage workers, medics, Hydro Board techs, oil & gas workers, drivers, rail maintenance squads might also be needed, just to keep the squaddies fed, watered, healthy, mobile and powered. Maybes dock workers, to get imports in. Maybes farmers to keep food growing.

    The list grows and grows but I’ve almost convinced myself. Once and for all, separate the productive from the useless eaters. In Scotland, maybes 1 million of the former and 5 million of the latter.

    Let’s hope Indy supporters are all in the former category. Should do wonders for house prices too.

  305. John Main


    “An attempt to bring this virus under control can only ever be credible if those in charge close shut the main portal of entry of all those variants into Scotland”

    You’re talking about the land border between England & Scotland, right?

    OK, here’s an artic heading North, carrying 30 tons of assorted foodstuffs intended for a supermarket near you. It’s at the border now, one of hundreds, maybes thousands, crossing in each direction on any given day.

    OK, here’s a train too. No passengers, just freight and a couple of drivers. Portal still shut?

    What should happen in your scenario? How would you keep Covid out? Your solution has to be practical and scalable so that 5-6 million people can continue to enjoy, food, clean water, reliable power, and all the other things we take for granted.

    You solution may also have to be permanent.

  306. wullie

    Clean water and reliable power. You have lost me there

  307. Republicofscotland

    JimuckMac @12.43pm.

    So no evidence then Jim, I’m not in the slightest bit surprised.

  308. John Main

    Andy Ellis

    You claim that the Tories absolutely prioritise the economy over public health and safety. Maybes they do.

    Before getting too excited about that, do you have any examples of anybody anywhere ever absolutely prioritising public health and safety over the economy? Banning cars, banning flying, banning skateboards, banning sex, banning sitting 12 hours a day typing BTL comments. God knows, all of these are risky for different reasons.

    Seems to me that grown up thinking about anything needs recognition of two facts:

    1) Everything you do is risky to some degree.

    2) The trick is to find the balance between the risk and the reward.

    You’re terrified of Covid and I respect that. You may be one of the minority who is right to be terrified. But many of us are not. In fact, we are becoming more terrified each day of the damage to our world that the response to Covid is doing. I wish you could respect that.

    Increasingly, the cure is becoming worse than the disease.

  309. John Main

    @wullie says: – 20 July, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    “Clean water and reliable power. You have lost me there”

    Sorry Wullie.

    You must have read past “food” to get to the bit where you got lost. So just answer the bit you understood:

    Border is closed because of Covid until further notice. 6 million Scots getting hungry. What happens next?

  310. Stuart MacKay

    “The First Minister has said it is “extremely important” that the vaccination of 12 to 17 year olds against coronavirus is not ruled out completely.”

    All indications are that the transmission rate in children is very, very low. If the virus was really a health issue with this age group we’d be knee deep in dead teachers, but we aren’t.

    When the side-effects of the vaccine are often worse than the actual disease and where the death rate will be greater than zero, you have to wonder upon which criteria the First Minister is operating.

  311. twathater

    Willie regarding the formal police investigation (which presumably they now publicly cannot avoid , but the outcome may prove easier to manipulate ) it was extremely disappointing and telling that initially there were only 7 police complaints , now of course that has risen to 19, WTAF, it is no wonder these criminal fraudsters get away with these ponzi type schemes when the people who have been used and manipulated are so reluctant to bring these criminals to account

    There is no doubt the donors were lied to , the STATED PURPOSE of the appeal was for funds to be used in the course of a NEW referendum which were implicitly to be RINGFENCED for THAT purpose , NOT for any other purpose but THAT specific purpose, to avoid criminal investigation surely the SNP would be extremely EAGER to PROVE the existence of this ring fenced fund with ALL the donations intact but that doesn’t appear to be the case

    As the SNP are doing everything in their power to avoid having to SHOW where these funds are OR how they have been misused I am at a loss as to why there are ONLY 19 complaints , surely there must have been hundreds if not thousands of donors so why such a little number of complaints

  312. Republicofscotland


    Koch Postulate system.

    I suggest you read this carefully.

    A blurb.

    “The worst thing about Koch’s postulates is that they were formulated before viruses were known to exist. Viruses aren’t like the bacteria that Koch was busy discovering. Viruses need to take over a host cell to replicate. In other words, they turn cells into virus-producing factories. And depending on what proteins a virus has on its surface, it may only be able to infect very specific cells from certain host species, or a wide range of cells from lots of different species.”

    “That’s why when virologists want to isolate a virus from a sample they’ll take the sample or some part of it and add it to some cells – usually ones that are relatively easy to grow in the lab – and then look to see if the cells die and/or if there are any virus particles released into the liquid nutrient bath the cells are growing in.”

    You won’t find a Koch Postulate system peer reviewed report on Covid for the Koch system doesn’t match the necessary criteria.

    But Jim, I have a feeling you already knew that.

  313. Stuart MacKay

    John Main

    > Everything you do is risky to some degree.

    Except in all the cases you cite it is the person engaging in the activity that is assuming the risk and ther are well established mechanisms for identifying liability if anything goes wrong due to negligence.

    How can you possibly implement that with a disease / public health issue? If personal responsibility is to be exercised then it would be up to the infected individuals to isolate so they do not infect others. However that’s the polar opposite behaviour people in your position advocate.

    Anti-vax? Then it’s your responsibility to stay at home so you don’t become a liability to others.

  314. James Che.

    We are potato growers, wheat growers, corn growers, we have cattle and sheep and surrounded by seafood,
    Scotland has a sufficient water supply of its own, and I am pretty sure we are able to sort out power supplies from wind, water and solar, with the right politicians closing the border that Boris Johnstone claims does not exist,( but can,t explain away the devolved government land mass area) to the borders of England.
    Perhaps NS thinks there are no borders, that why snp are trying to run England’s Westminster from the inside. All one big country?
    Any artics with any food supplies or necessities can under go the time period for quarantine in storage as others items are often from abroad.
    Those opposed to independence will always find the obstacle they were searching for.

  315. James Che.

    Captain yossarian,
    “Or stick with Westminster it’s a lot safer”
    Was that not what we were told in 2014?

  316. Mia

    “You’re talking about the land border between England & Scotland, right?”

    No. I am talking about ALL borders. That of course includes de border between Scotland and England.

    “OK, here’s an artic heading North, carrying 30 tons of assorted foodstuffs ……”


    the truck and cargo can be fumigated, the driver sent back to England and a Scottish one with a recent Covid negative test put in control of the driving seat. Now, how long does that process take? A couple of hours at most?

    Economic opportunity: this would force the truck companies to have back up drivers in Scotland – more jobs for Scotland.
    In addition, this would force supermarkets in Scotland to rely more on Scottish produce rather than aiding to the union jackery agenda that is seeing more and more English produce taking over the share of the market that before brexit the Scottish ones had.

    “OK, here’s a train too. No passengers, just freight and a couple of drivers. Portal still shut?”

    Read above:
    Fumigate, send driver down, put COVID-negative people living in Scotland instead in control of the driving seat and take the train to final destiny. Again, how long would this take? Far less than it takes Nicola Sturgeon to write pages after pages of deflective waffle trying to hide her appalling incompetence at progressing Scotland’s independence.

    “What should happen in your scenario?”
    In my scenario Scotland would have a proper FM who would not hesitate to push the boundaries of autonomy out and would not hesitate to show the middle finger to Westminster by closing the borders and stopping the variants coming via England entering Scotland. Sadly, instead of my scenario what we have is a coward who for 6 years has done nothing productive other than handing vetos to England, decrease support for independence with her inaction and helping England MPs to shrink Scotland’s autonomy and taking control of Scotland’s assets.

    “How would you keep Covid out?”
    Just in the way Australia and New Zealand have done: with a grown up FM/PM who does not melt at the knees at the prospect of exercising rigorous control of the borders WITH NO EXCEPTIONS

    “Your solution has to be practical and scalable”
    I believe it is. New Zealand and Australia have already tested it. Besides, there are plenty Scottish drivers, you know. Not only people from down south can drive.

    “so that 5-6 million people can continue to enjoy, food, clean water, reliable power…”

    Are you suggesting that Australia and New Zealand have been fasting of both food and water for over a year? Sorry, but that comes across as ridiculous.

    “and all the other things we take for granted”
    Clearly the lives of those thousands of Scots who died unnecessarily because this nationalist only in name FM lacks the guts to depart from Westminster’s herd immunity line, is allergic to the prospect of exercising Scotland’s autonomy and rather insult yes supporters calling them racists than doing what a proper nationalist FM would do which is to reduce the presence of the virus among the population to the minimum possible like New Zealand and Australia, by keeping an iron grip on border control, is something you appear to take for granted.

    “You solution may also have to be permanent”
    Australia and New Zealand have proven you can do this permanently if you have the balls to behave like the FM or PM of an independent nation instead of acting as the lackey of another one, that is.

  317. Stoker

    The early signs were there. Prior to WOS losing its Twitter account due to unsubstantiated lies *ONE* complaint along similar lines got WOS adverts removed from Labour-controlled SPT in Glasgow.

    When the liars at SPT were finally forced to tell the truth this is what they revealed, that WOS blog (not the advert itself) was “openly racist, xenophobic, and transphobic..”

    I’d say Stuart had more than a fair shout at suing someone.

  318. chas


    Try and think things through logically. Truck and train drivers at the border awaiting work-really?
    If the virus is rife in some parts of Scotland and not in others, do we have more truck and train drivers dotted about all over the place to transport goods? There are thousands of haulage firms in the UK. Would it simply be ok for any driver to jump in some other firms truck and drive it away. Is everybody allowed to drive your car?
    The west coast of Scotland and in particular Glasgow should have been quarantined months ago. Was it? Why not?
    Think before you type!

  319. wullie

    John Main says:
    20 July, 2021 at 1:52 pm
    @wullie says: – 20 July, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    Sorry for being a bit dim here John maybe you can clarify. Do you think that all power and water come from England and without this being delivered to us we might get a bit peckish be in the dark and thirsty

  320. Mia

    “Try and think things through logically.”
    I have done and I do.

    “Truck and train drivers at the border awaiting work-really?”
    Yes, really.

    “If the virus is rife in some parts of Scotland and not in others, do we have more truck and train drivers dotted about all over the place to transport goods?”

    You are of course desperately attempting here to peddle a thick smoke cloud to distract us from the fact that the different covid variants have entered Scotland via England.

    If you close the port of entry for the virus, which is what this nationalist only in name FM should have done back in March 2020, and you combine it, like Australia and New Zealand have done, with localised lockdowns, you bring the virus under control. Just as Australia and New Zealand have done.

    “There are thousands of haulage firms in the UK”
    How many unemployed drivers does Scotland have?

    “Would it simply be ok for any driver to jump in some other firms truck and drive it away?
    No. They would have to fumigate the truck first and the driver would have to be COVID-negative certified.

    If the companies are not comfortable with that arrangement, they can simply open their wallets and hire a Scottish person to work for their company driving the trucks from the border into Scotland’s depots. where exactly is the problem? In your world only England drivers are qualified to drive trucks in Scotland?

    “Is everybody allowed to drive your car?”
    No. But I do not deliver to supermarkets.

    “The west coast of Scotland and in particular Glasgow should have been quarantined months ago. Was it? Why not?

    You would have to ask that to the Covid queen. If I was in her shoes, you can be sure that not only independence for Scotland would have been delivered on the 8th May 2015, but I would have been holding an iron grip on border control stopping those variants coming in.

    “Think before you type!”
    How about you lead by example.

  321. chas


    Poor response. Let’s just leave it at that!

  322. auld highlander

    Love them or hate them but Tesco already runs loaded containers north by rail as far as Inverness then the stuff is distributed around the area by road.

    ” Currently Tesco operates two train services from Daventry to Livingston and Livingston to Inverness – these services have been in place for a number of years. 60% larger than the previous depot, Daventry has achieved a BREEAM excellent rating, has 1.5kms of rail track within the site and aims to eventually handle eight trains every day. The combined savings across all four rail services (new and current), will take 72,000 journeys off the road, saving around 24,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions per annum.”

  323. Captain Yossarian

    @James Che – If we had gone independent in 2014 then we would have had to deal with the banking crisis and covid on our own. Alex Salmond might be in jail just now and we’d be more like Belarus than Norway or Switzerland.

    The SNP are zealots and it’s a race to the bottom. It’s all they know.

    Have a look around you; there’s clear open water between SNP Nationalists and folk like Sillars, McAlpine and Salmond. The SNP don’t represent anyone other than their management hierarchy.

    I’m not a Nationalist but I would be relaxed with the aforementioned three.

  324. Breeks

    Michael Gove: “ I’ll be enjoying my retirement before indyref2”.

    The irony is, so will Sturgeon the Betrayer.

    The optimism is, both retirements will be arriving much earlier than anticipated.

  325. Mia

    “If we had gone independent in 2014 then we would have had to deal with covid on our own”

    New Zealand and Australia dealt with Covid on their own and the death rate is significantly lower than it has been in the Uk and Scotland. So what is not to like?

    If we had gone independent in 2014 and Mr Salmond remained as FM instead of this fraud, Scotland would be back in the EU by now, instead of being outside and at the mercy of the most incompetent, self-serving and negligent England government in UK history.

  326. auld highlander

    “The optimism is, both retirements will be arriving much earlier than anticipated”

    We can only hope.

  327. Captain Yossarian

    @Mia – We’d have to close the land border with England for that to have any effect. We cannot do that and so the covid rates would undoubtedly be the same for both countries in the end.

    On your second point I tend to agree.

  328. Republicofscotland

    The number of press spin doctors employed by Sturgeon’s government over the last four years has risen by fifty-percent, the SNP are up to that much that the media spinners are required to put a false face on their multiple failures to protect their useless ministers.

  329. cirsium

    @Mia, 3.57
    I would have been holding an iron grip on border control stopping those variants coming in.

    The iron grip might have prevented the variants present south of the border travelling north but it would not have prevented variants appearing here. SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus so it mutates. The experimental gene therapy injections do not provide sterilising immunity so do not stop the virus replicating.

  330. Graf Midgehunter

    An english artic drives to the Scottish – English border and unhooks the trailer, moves to another part of the compound and hooks on to a trailer from Scotland going south.

    A Scottish artic drives to the Scottish – English border and unhooks the trailer, moves to another part of the compound and hooks on to a trailer from England going north.

    It’s what haulage companies do, it’s logistics.
    No drivers are sitting around, bored, waiting for a truck to perchance pass by…

  331. Pixywine

    Mia. Australia and New Zealand are run like gulags these days. Is that worth it to avoid the sniffles?

  332. Dan

    A longish read for a blog article, but latter stages may interest wingers and other “malcontents”…

    It’s noted that the author steers well clear of dealing with or even mentioning pretty much all the significant and important issues raised over recent years on Wings Over Scotland, through the writings of Stuart Campbell and also several guest blogs published on this site.

    Guess there’s nothing of concern for some in all the numerous articles by Stu highlighting aspects of the different agencies and individuals relating to their attempts to take out Alex Salmond, or the incredible predicament the SNP has managed to get itself into which now involves a police investigation into the 600k ring-fenced IndyFund…

    Links to a couple of those guest articles that come to mind.

    Denise Findlay – How to make a coup

    Morag Kerr – To the National Secretary

  333. Dan

    Archived link to the blog.

  334. Ebok

    Breeks says:
    ‘The optimism is, both retirements will be arriving much earlier than anticipated.’

    If only you could bottle that optimism, Breeks, and send me a case.
    After two and a half sombre months resulting from the dismal polling of ALBA, I’ve still not figured out why this was so?
    There were several valid reasons – starting from scratch, and a blatantly biased media among others – but given the exhilaration, the anticipation, the expectation, on these pages in the weeks leading up to May 6, there is still something amiss.

    There was almost 100% support on these pages for ALBA 2, and presumably support from a high percentage of those who log on, but do not comment here.
    Add to that the assured votes from family members and friends, the commitment of, and feedback from Daisy Walker and countless others on the campaign trail, it is disconcerting that we did not win a single seat – I don’t know if we even got close to winning one?
    Within a few days of launch, ALBA had 3000+ members, and by May 6 this had risen to 5000. So, I was disheartened last week when an email update still had membership at that same number.
    Presumably, the party has analysed the numbers and reviewed the tactics employed prior to the election.
    I’ve pondered over many questions I can’t answer,
    So, was it a mistake to endorse SNP1? It sure didn’t work.
    Why aren’t ALBA screaming from the rooftops about the direction this country is heading, about the disastrous policies on Indy, Covid, education, drugs, poverty etc?
    Why did Alex allow Sturgeon to continually blacken his name during the campaign?
    Why didn’t he forcefully challenge interviewers instead of repeating ‘three courts, two enquiries, and a jury’?
    Was it really a good idea to engage in gentle debate with unashamedly biased interviewers? We know AS could run rings round these numpties, so why didn’t he?
    Why not more legal challenges against liars and conspirator’s pre-election?
    Why not some dirt slinging in the opposite direction, there was plenty of ammunition?
    Why were ‘Indy’ MSP’s not called out en masse for allowing VoNC to fail?
    Is there any firebrand, in your face politicians allied to ALBA who will challenge these charlatans and their damaging agenda?

    There are so many questions that need answering, so many strategies to put in place. Perhaps it’s time for ALBA to stop being the nicey, nicey, party and become the ANGRY party, and make sure that everyone knows why we are angry. Maybe then less informed folks will start to listen and ask questions.

  335. Pixywine

    Mia. Australia and New Zealand are run like gulags these days. Is that worth it to avoid the sniffles? If anyone takes the “vaccine” why are you frightened of unvaccinated? Because the BBC taught you to be frightened.

  336. Margaret Eleftheriou

    For Breeks
    I am currently in Crete and thought that you might like to know that I have just watched an episode on the history of Scotland concentrating on the pre-Bannockburn era, with lots of info on Baliol and Comyn. Made inhouse in Crete, written and delivered in Greek by the Kriti TV channel
    Crete is a small island but it has 4 independent TV channels, One of which is interested enough to produce a history of Scotland. Don’t know if this cheers you up but it certainly cheered me up.
    Definitely off topic. the building I am currently has just had a gentle shake. Have to find out what magnitude and where!

  337. Margaret Eleftheriou

    Breeks, still OTT. Magnitude 4.2, Heraklion.

  338. Captain Yossarian

    I see the EU is set to stop payments to Poland and Hungary in response to serious warnings over deteriorating judicial independence and battles against top-level corruption.

    Makes you wonder how Sturgeon’s Scotland would get on in the EU, doesn’t it. Very, very badly in my opinion.

    If Poland or Hungary need any lessons on bent lawyers and bent Ministers then they only need to look to Holyrood.

  339. Sharny Dubs

    Eboc @6:10

    Couldn’t agree more, Alex’s “play nice” has cost Alba.

    What’s the difference between the SNP and the ANC?

    Just a couple of letters really.

  340. JimuckMac

    Republic. The link you provided earlier in relation to Koch Postulates was nothing more than a single individuals personal opinion on the matter who definitely had an agenda. Not even the institute she works for would touch it.

    She is a very interesting character is Willis, and once again up pops Bill and Melinda, they do seem to get everywhere those to.

    Here is the real evidence that Covid 19 does not exist as a coronavirus.

  341. John Main


    Thanks for your reply. A bit over-detailed perhaps, but why quibble.

    God, but I’m a daftie. When you wrote earlier:

    “An attempt to bring this virus under control can only ever be credible if those in charge shut the main portal of entry”

    there was me thinking you were talking of closing the border(s).

    But you have now clarified that what you meant was that the border(s) remain open exactly as before. It’s just that no people get to cross them.

    I really can’t see how I missed that – duh!

    Your solution might work of course, good luck with the fumigated fruit and veg. Might also need the cooperation of those b******s on the other side of the border, so ca canny on the insults just in case.

    Are Australia and New Zealand such good examples? Neither have land borders, so all import/export occurs via ship or plane. I guess you can swap crews on a ship mid-ocean, but on a plane? Only time I have seen that done, Jason Statham had the role (the plane crashed but he had a chute).

    Moving forwards, in the spirit of constructive criticism, try to be a bit more precise, or maybes just precise, with what you actually write. Quality, not quantity.

  342. Scot Finlayson

    Today there was a great gathering of feminists from all over the UK at Glasgow Green in support of #WomanWon`tWheesht and Marion Millar,

    i wonder if SHE/HER and Humza who/what/? sent messages of support to these woman,

    and condemn the threats and abuse that JKR and Joanna are getting for being feminists.

  343. stonefree

    @ Willie at 12:49 pm

    “And the loose at the mouth Daddy Bear defamed one Nigel Farage who sued Smith successfully in court for his comments.

    But who paid Smyths legal bills. Anecdotal comment is that the hapless SNP members paid for his personal legal advice trying to defend the defamation damages action.”

    Small point it was Tice Who sued Smith,

    What Smith I think was a Political party could not sue him,and so he was safe from Farage, BUT Tice had a sound reputation and as his business require a decent reputation
    Tice did it personally, Tice is seriously wealthy

    Smith it appears is not much of a lawyer

  344. Tommo

    The post by Ebok I found interesting
    I should point out that-
    I am Welsh and while I have significant Scots links-
    I support the Union and
    I dont live in Scotland
    Nevertheless I was surprised at the failure of Alba to cause a ripple on the surface
    It may be that the BBC and MSM are instinctively attracted to Nicola Sturgeon as she is;
    Ostensibly leftist, while acquisitive
    Urban in outlook
    Physically unattractive
    Internationalist and a loather of the UK and
    An enthusiast for practitioners of non-standard sexuality
    What’s not to like?
    So maybe it was lack of publicity for Alba but I think also Mr Salmond has made some disastrous errors of judgement-
    Obviously the FM is top of that list but having emerged from the legal nightmare into which he had been thrust it seems a bit feeble to then say ‘oh well-the SNP may be a criminal cabal but its oor criminal cabal-vote for them anyway’
    Maybe its just me but there’s something about that position that doesn’t appeal
    I’ll get me coat

  345. Mia

    “it would not have prevented variants appearing here”

    The variants do not materialise out of nothing. The variants emerge from the original ones that enter the country. The variants enter Scotland within a host. As far as I recall, every one we have had in here was imported from down south.

    “SARS-CoV-2 is a coronavirus so it mutates”
    Yes, but it mutates out of another variant, not out of thin air. For it to mutate there has to be an original virus in the first place. In other words, if you eradicate the original variant you had here, which we could have done in the summer of last year, and simultaneously close the borders to stop new variants getting in, there is no coronavirus to mutate from unless you bring some more, which is what has been happening for the last year and a bit by keeping the borders open.

    “The experimental gene therapy injections do not provide sterilising immunity so do not stop the virus replicating”

    For the virus to replicate there has to be a virus in the first place. If you stop the virus coming in, which is what I proposed, and Sturgeon could have done so by closing the borders back in February 2020 like the other countries in EU did if she behaved like a proper nationalist FM instead of acting as Westminster’s lackey, at a point when there was no reported COVID cases in Scotland, once you get the virus you have here under control by starving the virus of hosts using localised and controlled lockdowns, there is nothing to replicate or to mutate from.

    The bottom line is that all the virus Scotland got crossed the borders into here. Lock the darn borders and you stop new variants getting in so you can get rid of the one you already have.

    The only logical explanation I can find for not having locked the darn borders like Australia and New Zealand have done is that somebody wanted the virus flowing through, either for political reasons to distract from something else like brexit, to make some tories very rich with the apps, vaccines and the lot, for lack of balls to do what needed to be done, or simply for the sake of herd immunity. Take your pick.

  346. James Che.

    Captain yossarian
    You don’t need to get upset because you want to stay in the union, and most of us on this Scottish blog do not.
    It’s just a matter of different opinions, I will not convince you any more than it is worth your while trying to change us.

  347. Captain Yossarian

    @James Che – I don’t care one way or the other; believe me. What I’m saying is that Holyrood is bent and our lawyers are bent. The EU have enough bent countries to deal with already in Poland and Hungary. Scotland won’t be allowed entry – not in a million years.

  348. Ron Maclean

    @Ebok 6:10pm

    Good questions. How long should we wait for the answers?

  349. stonefree

    Re the ALBA campaign.
    The failure was quite simply being far to civil,decent and polite, to a lesser extent the SNP 1 .Personally I thought that was just wrong but then
    One can’t give the SNP any respect.
    Alex Salmond was far too decent to a bunch of vagabonds and tramps
    There are questions about the money complains, I would think they have been going to Bute House to be dealt with in-house and not the police,
    It’s same with sexual complaint at lease 2 exist , and I don’t doubt some others are “addressed or titled differently”

    I referred to Richard Tice v Smith earlier, had Smith not settled with Tice, The SNP and Smith were gone, he has the assets to pursue that

  350. Scot Finlayson

    `Despite 3,000+ reports of sexual assaults against its drivers every year, of which almost all are male against female,

    Uber has announced that it will allow its drivers to self ID – and will hide the fact that a male who IDs as a woman is male until the customer is in the car`.

  351. James Che.

    Captain yossarian.
    I checked back on my comments, and I can see I never mentioned the EU,

  352. Hatuey

    pixynut: “why are you frightened of unvaccinated?”

    I’m not frightened of the unvaccinated, I’m frightened for them.

    How a society treats the vulnerable is indeed a measure of its humanity. There’s no denying the science; without vaccination, people are left vulnerable.

    This is why the Vaccine Passport makes so much sense; it keeps the vulnerable safely separated from the rest. It’s going to be costly and aggravating, but that’s a price we need to pay.

  353. David Caledonia


    TSITIALOS…………….. YIA

  354. Stuart MacKay

    Mia (good to see you posting again)

    Unfortunately the reason for not closing the borders was much worse than that. Scotland as a nation is a concept that does not exist in the First Minister’s head. She manages the country as an intrinsic part of the United Kingdom and would never do anything that affected it’s integrity.

    Actions speak louder than words.

  355. Breeks

    stonefree says:
    20 July, 2021 at 9:30 pm
    Re the ALBA campaign.
    The failure was quite simply being far to civil,decent and polite, to a lesser extent the SNP 1 .Personally I thought that was just wrong….

    I have some sympathy towards that criticism, but then, I remember the YES Movement built up in 2013-14, which was always positive and uplifting in it’s outlook.

    It could have succumbed to being a slug-fest with the negativity of Better Together, but it never did, and I firmly believe it was Alex Salmond’s leadership and judgement steering YES in the right direction.

    It is much better for us, as ordinary YES supporters to hold Sturgeon to account and regain control of the Independence initiative than have Alex Salmond sticking the knife in when it’s clearly something out his comfort zone and equally clearly, against his better judgement.

    The irony is the Both Votes SNP brigade are adamant that the ALBA party was intended to be a spiteful revenge against Sturgeon, and that betrays two things. First, a fundamentally tragic lack of understanding of Alex Salmond, and second, despite their sycophantic support for Sturgeon, there’s a very telling revelation in how readily they accept Sturgeon has done something to warrant Alex Salmond seeking revenge, but they would choose to turn a blind eye towards it. What does that tell you?

    It wouldn’t be my choice of personality, but I think Alex Salmond will always turn the other cheek if and when he’s attacked from within the Independence Movement. He will not turn on his own footsoldiers, no matter what the provocation or justification.

    That is the reason Alex Salmond will held in high regard, long after we all have our heids laid in the clay, because the truth will out, and Sturgeon, if recalled at all, will be held in similar contempt as the Parcel O’ Rogues from 1707. Perhaps in even lower regard.

    I know I run the risk of sounding like a sycophant myself, perhaps I even am without realising it, but Alex Salmond is a very clever man, an accomplished political strategist, and I believe he is also a very good man, and he will suffer the misguided slings and arrows which target him from within the Independence Movement to protect the integrity and cohesion within the Independence Movement.

    It is telling I think that Alex Salmond is only seeking “revenge” for his defamation on Leslie Evans, an ‘outsider’ to the YES family, while the “errant child” is extended every opportunity to grow up, repent, and become a better person without the stigma of disgrace. Is that a mark of weakness? Maybe it is. But Grandfathers everywhere will understand that I think.

    Alex Salmond to his dying breath will ALWAYS put Scotland’s Interest first, and furthermore the Independent Scotland Alex Salmond would create would be a progressive Scotland for everyone without prejudice. Even our Unionists will have place in Scotland to call home.

    But Alex Salmond is the bogie man because he also has the strategic mind, the vision, and the drive to actually make an Independent Scotland a reality, and THAT is the reason Alex Salmond attracts so much hostility, smearing, character assassination and contempt. Alex Salmond would take their centuries of colonial exploitation of Scotland’s people wealth and resources and burn the fraudulent fallacy of “Union” to the ground.

    They cannot “take down” Alex Salmond they way they took down Willie MacRae, because that would inspire Scotland across the finishing line. So they have to bring down Alex Salmond from within, and destroy the reputation of the man they cannot bend, by using the minds of the people they can.

  356. Republicofscotland

    JimucjMac @7.30pm.


    When the likes of David Icke (The son of God) admires Engelbrecht (a journalist) and Demeter’s work, (a investigator) there’s not much left to say, I think we shall agree to disagree on this occasion.

    Next you’ll be providing info from Alex Jones and Yuri Geller.

  357. J.o.e

    ‘Alex Salmond was far too decent to a bunch of vagabonds and tramps’

    Im not a great Alex Salmond fan at the moment but he is an extremely capable operator.

    Lets go on the idea that he is actually honestly out for Scotlands independence:

    He understands that people are dumb bastards. He wouldn’t describe it as such but in the end that is it. People need to have their wee feelings, their wee biases and their wee brains that have been marinated in propaganda and crap education stroked and coddled in order to get them to think in the way that you want them to.

    Just coming out and speaking the bare honest truth gets you nothing but animosity, even among the people who consider themselves thinkers. Especially if the truth is horrific.

    People HATE the truth. Especially when the truth shows them to be unthinking idiots who blindly went along with a con that damaged them and their country. Pride and stupidity. What a mixture.

    Like children they have to be coerced and convinced by shaking toys and distractions at them. Our elites know this, use it and think of us as dumb cattle for it. They are unfortunately correct. Peoples brains have been moulded in this way.

    Salmond knows that people have to slowly see for themselves what the SNP are while giving them ample rope to hang themselves. The damage will have to be done and the slow progress made.

    Its cattle driving for humans. Don’t scare them, just keep nudging them in the direction you want and hope the other cattle drivers are less successful than you at doing it.

    If anybody doesn’t like this then ive got one word for you : covid.

  358. Mia

    “Actions speak louder than words”

    Indeed they do, Stuart.

    The actions of this nationalist only in name FM tell us that she is just a satellite of New Labour and as determined to keep Scotland in the Union as Brown and Blair are, even more in fact.

    Her favourite sport appears to be collecting indyref mandates so she can let them expire.

    Every year that passes us by, more and more people from other parts of the UK come into Scotland. Those people are not going to miraculously support independence, so one could argue that what this fraud is doing by purposely delaying indyref until first 2019, then 2020, then 2021, then 2022, then 2023 and now 2024, is to ensure enough people from the rest of the UK has come into Scotland to neutralise the yes vote increase due to demographics in Scotland. It is no secret that the younger generations are more pro yes than the older ones. For as long as she gives the vote to the new people arriving into the UK, disproportionally no voters, what she is doing is at all effects denying the natives their right to self determination.

    At least Blair and Brown did not hand over Scotland’s NHS and water to England tories. She however has handed our powers, the control of our assets and has thrown our EU citizenship in the England tories’ trash can.

    Almost a year and a half has passed since she allowed England to drag us out of the EU and she has done nothing to get us back in. Nothing to respect our democratic votes in June 2016 either. Just a dose of waffle and soundbites every now and then.

    If she is not a satellite of New labour, how can anybody explain that she allowed a member of her own effing cabinet to fight against the Keatings’ case? Yet, she still did not get much criticism at all for that.

    If she is not a satellite from New Labour, how can a real nationalist abuse the trust of the yes supporters by asking them to waste their second vote so the unionists could keep the seats in Holyrood?

    She, Smith and the rest in her clique haven’t been given anywhere near criticism enough for their enabling of the unionists in Holyrood. Because asking for a second SNP vote was precisely that, ensuring the unionists were given seats in Holyrood. And then they have the brass neck to demand the SNP to be seen as “the party of independence”. Bllcks. Since she took over the SNP appears to have become a satellite of New Labour determined to stop independence and to adopt UK foreign policies.

    When you look back in time, in SEVEN long years, with countless majorities, mandates and opportunities, what exactly has this fraud done to progress independence?


    All she has done is to refrain Scotland from that independence, to undermine yes supporters, to trash our democracy and our rights, to enable unionists in holyrood, to ensure the survival of the undemocratic HoLs and the abuse of Scotland in the HoCs by England MPs to continue. Some FM.

    Since 8th May 2015 this fraud has had in her hands the chance to make Scotland’s independence a reality. Instead, she is frantically paddling in the opposite direction by driving the yes supporters to despair and decreasing interest in independence.

    If that is not batting for the other side and the signature move of New Labour, then what is.

  359. John Jones

    Hatuey says
    What good are vaccine passports?
    Being jabbed doesn’t stop you from catching it, doesn’t stop you from passing it on, it only allegedly stops you from being seriously ill.
    So a passport is only a fake way of getting the population to act normally without realising it is still being passed on

  360. Mac

    I dont think Alex Salmond is capable of taking them on. We would have seen it by now if he was.

    I said on here before I have a lot of respect of AS but my one criticism is he is too nice. And he is, he is a softie.

    I have to say we saw it 2014 as well. Curiously underprepared for the UK establishment throwing the sink at us as soon as it looked like we might win. Too quick to accept it all as well, and he never really showed his teeth once throughout. Too soft on all the shenanigan’s that went on… ach too late now.

    It was down to people like Stuart Campbell to take the fight to them and that is what he did. SC nailed some balls on the YES campaign whether they liked it or not in 2014.

    We saw AS’s softness again throughout all the gutter attacks on him by the legoheadedliar. He just never really got stuck in. I don’t think it is in him. He is not a Donald Trump who would have rag dolled NS every day of the week. That is a political street fighter versus someone who is not.

    As for ALBA’s curiously poor showing… Either it was genuine in which case we might as well give up or it was fiddled (like 2014 would have been) and again we might as well give up as the game is rigged anyway. Even when you win, you lose… pointless.

    I personally was shocked at how gullible my fellow YES supporters were during the entirety of the Salmond stitch-up. They still are most of them it seems.

    I was also shocked at how quickly they also essentially stabbed in the back the man who was at the heart of leading the YES campaign in 2014. So readily they just fell for it and went along with it. It pretty much turns my stomach.

    Alex is not daft. It must have been terrifying seeing Police Scotland and COPFS absolutely slavering at the mouth trying everything they could to stitch him up. And he was an ex-FM…it would have shocked him to his core and maybe he realized for the first time just what he was really up against.

    Democracy is Scotland only really exists when you are voting for the status quo (basically every vote outside of 2014). As soon as you genuinely try to alter that, they will destroy you. And that is what we have seen with AS. It must be quite harrowing, I am sure he must have thought he was done many times during it all. A truly horrific experience.

    People have too much expectations of Alex Salmond. The man has been through a nightmare.

    The SNP, the COPFS, the Police, the media and the other political parties all played an eager role. All more than happy to see an innocent man stitched-up and sent to probably die in prison. That is the real Scotland.

  361. Republicofscotland

    So Westminster is to set up a new £150 million pounds overship fund to directly fund local bodies in Scotland and bypass Holyrood in the process, effectively undermining Holyrood.

    Again Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots and EU citizens is bitching about it, as are her obedient SNP ministers, and finger pointing that its all Westminster’s fault.

    What does she expect Westminster to do one of its main modus operandi’s IS to roll back devolution until its ineffective. But Sturgeon knows this as does her spineless ministers, she could’ve saved Scots and their businesses a lot of unnecessary hardship (Brexit, the terrible Aussie trade deal) by holding an indyref, or even using May’s election as a plebiscite and thousands of Scots wanted, but no she isn’t interested in saving Scotland from this putrid union, she’s only interested in pursuing her own agenda, and the sooner Scots wake up to this, the sooner we’ll ditch this onesided union.

  362. Republicofscotland

    Oh f*ck here we go again its only months since the SNP prattled on about an indyref prior to May’s elections, then the word independence was thrown about like confetti at a wedding just before the elections, and stuffed back in its box once the Betrayer got reelected.

    Now the poor sods that actually buy into Sturgeons lying crap will have to go through it all again, as the SNP has promised that independence will be the key issue coming up to next years council elections, aye right.

    Don’t under any circumstances give the SNP anymore votes give them to the Alba party at next years elections, if you truly want to see an independent Scotland in your life time.

    No votes SNP.

  363. Breastplate

    Creating a class of untermenschen is for our own good, really?

    In what way can you believe that is beneficial to our society?

  364. JimuckMac

    Republic, what a very poor response from yourself to my scientifically peer reviewed link explaining clearly that Covid 19 has never been purified or isolated under the Koch Postulate, which means the virus does not exist and has never existed as a coronavirus.
    I expected better.

  365. Republicofscotland

    Daddy Bear must think we’re all stupid, today he has a column in the National newspaper, in which he professes his love for the South American country of Colombia, and he wants to profess our love for it to.

    However Colombia is a Great Satan (USA) staging post for colour revolutions, and terrorist attacks in the rest of south America. Such as the attempted over throws of Venezuelan presidents Chavez and Maduro, and its also been used as base point to impact on Cuba.

    The Great Satan has kept South America in turmoil for decades snuffing out any form of socialism in the continent, and backing or even installing right wing puppet leaders, those it could not convert we killed via proxy terrorists.

    Peru has just elected a left leaning president in Pedro Castillo, who had to jump through hoops due to the right crying out voter fraud, no doubt Mr Castillo a farmer, will either be deposed as the Great Satan destroys its economy with sanctions or he’ll be assassinated by a Peruvian/Great Satan backed terror force.

  366. Hatuey

    John Jones: “What good are vaccine passports? Being jabbed doesn’t stop you from catching it, doesn’t stop you from passing it on…”

    That’s exactly why we need the passports, or it’s at least one of many good reasons; to stop vaccinated people spreading it to the unvaccinated, and vice versa.

    It’ll be for individual businesses to come up with their own policies on this, as it should be. We’re not communists.

    Breast: “In what way can you believe that is beneficial to our society?”

    Is that a rhetorical question? It’s like asking why it’s beneficial to have seatbelts or speeding limits.

    It’s hard to tell what’s intended seriously with anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists.

  367. oneliner


    I agree with your observations on AS – I can only surmise that he has a book in the offing and/or he now realises that he is a potential burden on (the perception of) Alba.

    What saddens me (by no means an exhaustive list):

    1] Scotland has not voted for a Tory government since 1955, yet we are continually subjected to same because our English neighbours do/did.

    2] Scotland did not vote for Brexit but we got it because our English neighbours did.

    3] Scotland did not vote for independence because our (transplanted) English neighbours didn’t.

    It is going to take one hell of a strident political party to find a way of overturning that continuing ‘democratic’ anomaly. I cannot see pursuance of the Westminster model as anything other than a cul-de-sac. Where do we find the through-road?

  368. James Che.

    Alex Salmond. to soft and to nice even with all the nastiest abuse thrown at him,.

    He actually represents the average Scot much more deeper psychology as a figurehead than you think.
    With all the sh.te thrown at us since 2014 we as a nation at no different in behaviour than Alex Salmond.
    Wether it’s acceptable lost mandates , lies about Brexit, or enforcing transgender issues, or playing god with our bodies against our will. Creating lockdowns to sovereign people, or the hate crime bill,
    We like Alex are pussy cats,
    While the other side,snp included are like tigers.

  369. Republicofscotland

    JimuckMac @10.18.

    That’s rich coming from you after this with absolutely no evidence provided.

    “The Scottish Government have rebranded flu/pneumonia as Covid 19.”

  370. James Che.

    Perhaps the [ vaccinated ] should continue to be under lockdown until a vaccination is found that works, so they do not spread the virus to ill children for instance.
    Isn’t that the purpose of lockdowns.
    If your a carrier and spreader of the virus and you are aware of it, that’s homicide, intent to harm another human.

  371. Mia

    “the word independence was thrown about like confetti at a wedding just before the elections”

    According to the 7-38-55 rule, only 7% of the message is communicated by words.

    I don’t want to hear Sturgeon’s eviscerated SNP talk about independence as if it was the puppet of a ventriloquist.

    I want TO SEE IT progressing independence. They may throw the word independence every now and then but so far, in seven years, the only thing that we have seen was sturgeon’s SNP stopping independence, denying Scotland of its democratic right to choose, criticising yes supporters who do not follow her pro-union line and let our money, allegedly ringfenced for indyref, be woven through the accounts.

    Do not tell us who you are, SHOW US what you are.

    You may have talked the talk, but so far, for the last seven years the only thing you have shown is that you are determined to stop the independence of Scotland and ensure Scotland’s assets, rights and powers are firmly under the control of England.

    Are we expected to thank you for that?

  372. Ron Maclean

    We are mounting no effective resistance. All we’re getting from the SNP/Scottish Government is a running commentary on the demise of Scotland’s democracy.’ today.

  373. Ron Maclean

    My comment at 11:57 am was a quote from Peter A Bell. I missed a quotation mark at the beginning. Apologies Peter.

    ‘We are mounting no effective resistance. All we’re getting from the SNP/Scottish Government is a running commentary on the demise of Scotland’s democracy.’ today.

    It’s worth repeating.

  374. J.o.e

    ‘It’s hard to tell what’s intended seriously with anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists.’

    Can you tell me under what circumstances someone can be hesitant about 1 particular vaccine or type of vaccine and not be over all an ‘anti-vaxxer’?

    For example I avoided the swine flu vaccine and was called an anti vaxxer. Ive had all other vaccines except flu and covid (im still too young and healthy to be much bothered by flu) but it turns out that my hesitancy was justified.

    Am I still an anti vaxxer for avoiding the swine flu vaccine – even though it was stopped and an investigation found it unsafe and had caused damage to thousands of people – while the swine flu wasn’t what was initially hyped.

    Please, enlighten me.

  375. Jack Murphy

    OT. Apologies if this has already appeared on Wings but here it is from Ian Lawson’s Blog:

    “EMBARGO: Tuesday 20 July 2021. (Also attached)
    Adjournment Debate – Role of Lord Advocate
    Mr Speaker,….”

  376. Captain Yossarian

    Holyrood now has 55No front-line media folk on its books. The BBC has 34No.

    Is this what Holyrood was set-up to do? Surely not.

  377. Hatuey

    “‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’” (1984)

    On today’s news they’re talking about abolishing the ‘not proven’ verdict and establishing new courts to deal with more serious sex crimes. It sounds likely they’re in a hurry to do all this.

    It goes without saying that had these changes been implemented before the Salmond trials our political landscape would look very different today; Alba, without Salmond (who would probably be lying in a covid infested prison), probably wouldn’t exist.

    That’s what we learned, but what did others learn? We know some were angry. Were they angry enough to change the law and try, try again?

    Fishy indeed.

  378. Breeks

    The problem is people need to understand how “Government” controls dissent and dissatisfaction, whether that’s Westminster Government, Devolved Government, Local Government, or even the Regulators and Ombudsmen so enthusiastically endorsed by the “Establishment”.

    Ordinary people think justice, evidence and documentary proof is all you need to secure a just conclusion, but this is highly naive.

    If your grievance, complaint, dissatisfaction cannot be fobbed off by truculent “first point of contact staff”, it will be put in a slow queue for actioning in the hope you’ll get bored and give up. Only the most determined will progress to level 2 when “somebody” will be appointed to look at your grievance, and they too will give you the runaround for months, but then contrive to find holes or diversionary distractions in your submissions. It will perhaps answer questions which have no bearing to any question you actually asked, and this creates the illusion your grievance has been addressed when it really hasn’t.

    This runaround may go on for years, with the basic premise of a Mickey Mouse response to a legitimate grievance time and time again testing your resolve and straining your resources past the point where you give up and cannot continue.

    Look at their approach to Inquiries. Look at their redactions and sophistries. Look at their evasiveness with FOI’s.

    Look at the layers of obstructiveness and pseudo co-operation with Martin Keatings. Look at the costs they are keen to see both Keatings and Craig Murray struggling to cope with. It is deliberate policy.

    The British system of Government is designed to function like a big dollop of unresponsive play-do or plasticine… when it makes you angry or let’s you down, it’s designed to accommodate the angry punching you want to give it, and no impact will EVER be felt by the shits on the inside who are basically crap at their job. Nothing you do will have any consequence. You’ll run out of money, maybe make yourself ill with stress, or maybe just give up in disgust. “They” are depending on that.

    That’s the real problem ALBA has. The U.K. Government doesn’t want ALBA to exist, the UK Media doesn’t want ALBA to exist, and the Scottish “Government” especially doesn’t want ALBA to exist, so true to form, ALBA can expect nothing by way of engagement or progressive involvement.

    ALBA is at the “cold shouldering” stage, having it’s resources strained, it’s commitment tested, and the depth of pockets established. ALBA will be treated like dirt by the “Establishment” until ALBA makes itself un-ignorable.

    All the people coming on here to run down ALBA and write it’s premature obituary are either Establishment goons, or people doing the Establishment goons work for them.

    Place you’re hopes that there are good people in ALBA and ALBA isn’t their first rodeo. Sooner or later, the inertia will be overcome, and there will be a big breakthrough moment.

    I hope that breakthrough moment is a wheel falling off Sturgeon’s Teflon bandwagon, because the same Establishment keeping ALBA out in the cold is keeping Sturgeons shortcomings, crookedness and failures safe from aggressive scrutiny. Sturgeon in power means a respite for the Union, and that’s a situation they will spin out as long as possible.

    Keep the faith, don’t write off ALBA, and if ALBA seeks engagement with you, then engage.

  379. Breeks

    I neglected to mention, you will also be branded as “troublemaker” and efforts will be made to isolate people from their peer groups. For example, they’ll imply Craig Murray isn’t a real journalist and that kind of thing. Suppliers will be “encouraged” not to supply you, customers will be encouraged to shop elsewhere, and Contractors will be encouraged to blackball certain sub-contractors.

    Gratuitous smearing is obviously commonplace, but always under the counter, down the pub, or on the golf course. Never to your face.

    It’s all designed to strain resource and cripple the pursuit of justice, and sadly, it’s very effective and works.

  380. Mia

    This is infuriating.

    From the National:

    “Tories plotting ‘assault on devolution’ with new community fund, SNP warn”

    Quote from SNP MSP Kenneth Gibson:

    “Basically, it’s the thin edge of the wedge that will lead to the Tories taking control of even more of Scotland’s money and the cuts that follow that.”

    Right, Mr Gibson, and what is Sturgeon’s eviscerated SNP party going to do about it? What are YOU going to do about it?

    Just whinge?

    We have had SEVEN years of Sturgeon’s eviscerated SNP ranting, wailing and whinging about what the tories do to attack democracy in Scotland and to destroy devolution but we have not had one single day, not even an hour, where we can say that Sturgeon or her eviscerated SNP and all those MSPs and MPs we sent in good faith to DELIVER independence, have actually done SOMETHING, ANYTHIHG even, to stop the tories or, heaven forbid, to DELIVER independence.

    We are fed up with the “warnings”. We are fed up with the ranting. We are fed up with the vacuous whinging. We are fed up with the continuous wailing coming from Sturgeon’s SNP unaccompanied of ANY MEANINGFUL ACTION that was actually delivered with the intention of counteract the damage or, heaven forbid, stop it on its tracks.

    What we realistically have here is a distracting, irritating and embarrassing continuous background wailing that has lasted for SEVEN effing years. A wailing that has been continuously attempting to distract us from the fact that for SEVEN years Sturgeon’s SNP has done nothing, NOTHING, to stop the erosion of our powers, to progress independence or to deliver it. Not a thing.

    What we have seen is what looks like a closeted New Labour branch operating under the SNP flag and who has been continuously
    ENABLING the tories to destroy devolution, enabling England MPs to assault our powers, to assault our rights, to destroy Scotland’s brands and to steal from us the control of our assets.

    After SEVEN YEARS, frankly, the expectation is that Sturgeon’s eviscerated SNP and Mr Gibson himself had actually left the futile whinging to Labour long ago and actually found the balls to start moving their backsides toward some meaningful action.

    If it is in your hand to stop something but you deliberately
    choose not to, then your wailing against it is dishonest because you are deliberately enabling it. This is what we have seen for the last six years. Sturgeon’s eviscerated SNP has had since 8th May 2015 the power to end the union, the power to end the HoLs, the power to end the abuse against Scotland in the HoCs, the power to stop the tories assaulting Scotland rights on their tracks and the power to initiate proceedings for Scotland to return to the EU. That they continue to choose not to use that power, almost renege of that power, enabling all that abuse to continue, is not our fault, it is Sturgeon’s SNP’s choice.

    In any other party, a so called leader who fails abysmally to deliver, who wastes SEVEN YEARS of majorities and mandates, who makes a mockery of democracy and who under their watch allow 600,000 pounds of ringfenced money to be “woven through the accounts” would have been kicked out the driving seat long time ago.

    In Sturgeon’s SNP however, the more incompetent and dishonest you are, the more you make a mockery of democracy, the more chances you have to remain in power so you can continue destroying the party from within actively supressing the chances of Scotland to see independence.

    Let’s be realistic. If the SNP was the ENP (England National Party) and its HQ were in England not Scotland, how long do we think our neighbours in England would have tolerated at the helm a loser who practices as her favourite sport wasting years, majorities and mandates and has absolutely nothing to show for of their time in power?

    A week?

  381. Republicofscotland

    News reporting that specialised courts will definitely be set up for sexual crimes, the reason, not enough convictions are being made via the conventional way.

    These new specialised courts will have no jury, which always gets my spider senses tingling, Craig Murray had no jury and look at the way his unjust conviction was pronounced.

    Lady Dorrian Murray’s judge, who convicted him, is the main judge pushing these so called reforms through, the not proven verdict is also in the firing lines apart from juries.

    Rape Crisis Scotland are over the moon with the coming reforms, we all know the disgraceful way RCS acted, and for who’s benefit (A Scottish government funded organisation) when Alex Salmond was cleared in his unwarranted trial.

    I have much sympathy for folk who are sexual abuse/assaulted, and conviction rates are low, if they are indeed low, possibly because there’s not enough evidence in most cases for a successful prosecution. Is it then correct to remove juries and allow a judge, who knows the conviction rates must rise, to decide if a person is guilty or not even if not enough evidence is present.

    I say this because these specialised courts without juries, will not end at sexual crime cases, they will eventually be extended to main stream crimes, and without a jury a judge can easily find someone guilty without any real evidence to show that they are, and that brings us back around to Craig Murray’s farcical conviction.

  382. James Che.

    It’s not a matter of writing off Alba.
    It more a case of it took us a while to see a political party like the snp set up with the specific purpose of gaining independence for Scotland.
    That has been a big shock for those that relied solely on that vehicle to become free of the union,
    The fact that they have turned tailcoats to go against the Scottish people is a thorough lesson to be learned.

    Those same snp who sat on there hands while all sh.t broke loose since 2014 have migrated very quickly to Alba,
    To do what?
    I personally would be cautious of that influx and infiltration until Alba pulls a rabbit out the hat,
    NS could have recalled our MPs back from Westminster over Brexit, but did not,
    The sectioning off of grassroots from the party was a big indicator that the direction the snp were going.
    Now many of them are in Alba.
    That these snp some of them old labour would like to see sovereignty lie with the Scottish parliament, not with the people.
    Alba could do many speeches and many ideas with no action just like NS, and continue kicking the can down the road until the next election of more wasted years and further restrictions coming into play by law on the Scottish people and their sovereignty.

    But until they are out and about with the grassroots movement inspiring the Scots to use their own sovereignty and with the right to chose our own government, I hold tight in having blind faith or being fooled again, we must be intelligent enough to use the lessons we learned with old labour infiltration into the snp and on to Alba.
    As far as Alba are concerned I want to see what they do, not what they say!

  383. James Che.

    70 odd years of the snp politically fighting for independence and this is where they the snp have landed in 2021.
    Many grassroots independence supporters are passing away, and some of us others are not far behind,
    The thought of leaving it behind in the hands of the new cancel culture, trans modernists, new Brexit change human rights governments is beyond the pale.
    There is no better time than now,

  384. Breastplate

    James Che,
    I would suggest that getting behind Alba quickly is key and in keeping with what you say.

    It may seem counterintuitive but if politicians were well aware of how fickle the voting public is, then they would be forever on their toes and quite rightly so.

    As soon as they can rely on loyal supporters through thick and thin, no matter how fucking nonsensical their policies, well that gives them a nice warm feeling of security.
    Unfortunately, there are still too many who believe the SNP are going to deliver independence when it’s obvious that the current bunch of parasites couldn’t deliver a pizza.

    So again, we should get quickly and firmly behind Alba to help our cause, it’s for our own benefit.
    As soon as they don’t do what it says on the tin, it should be binned.

  385. John Main

    Hatuey 21 July, 2021 at 10:21 am

    “That’s exactly why we need the passports, or it’s at least one of many good reasons; to stop vaccinated people spreading it to the unvaccinated, and vice versa.”

    Are you really so dense or so clueless that you believe that possession of proof of vaccination against Covid will stop you from catching Covid and passing it on to others, both vaccinated and unvaccinated?

    Educate yourself dude.

  386. Andy Ellis

    @James Che

    As you say, it is still early days for Alba. Expectations were undoubtedly too high for the Holyrood elections, but I think it is a bit soon to write the party off, or assume it will be captured by SNP defectors the way the SNP was hollowed out by New Labour types with an eye for the main chance once they realised their sense of entitlement didn’t guarantee them perpetual power and access to the gravy train.

    It will be up to Alba’s membership to ensure that it doesn’t suffer the same fate as the SNP. It’s internal processes and governance have to be constructed such that they are in stark contrast to the current SNP organisation. Given the events of the past few years, and thanks to that actions of special interest groups who have parasitised and hollowed out the SNP, we know what bad looks like.

    The task is to ensure that the rank and file membership are not sidelined and disenfranchised the way they have been in the SNP. Decisions should to the greatest extent possible be taken by the whole membership. The NEC must be appointed by the membership, accountable, open and subject to recall. We never want to see the kind of shenanigans that have gone on with the SNP NEC, nor the lack of response to complaints and appeals.

    If Alba can show us that it means to be structurally and qualitatively better than the SNP then it will already have achieved much. We don’t need to replace the SNP or destroy it, nor would that be remotely realistic in any foreseeable timescale. What we CAN aim for is constructing the alter-SNP. In the short to medium term it is realistic to aim for holding the balance of power in the indy movement, because the SNP and Greens have no realistic prospect of constructing a pro-indy majority or consensus if a significant percentage of indy support decides to back Alba.

  387. John Main

    Mia 21 July, 2021 at 10:45 am

    “According to the 7-38-55 rule, only 7% of the message is communicated by words.”

    Coming from the author of numerous repetitive, rambling, pages-long comments, that just has to be a piss take.

    Thanks for the laugh Mia. Whether or not you intended it to be funny I leave to you to clarify, or not, as you see fit.

  388. Hatuey

    RoS, you seem to have missed the probable point of changing those procedures.

    It’s not paranoid to suggest they might be making those changes specifically to go after Salmond again. After all, we know they have form — there’s good grounds to believe the Civil Service procedure for handling complaints was changed for that very purpose back in 2017. It’s what most people with a good understanding of the Salmond fiasco think, as well as Salmond himself.

  389. Hatuey

    John Main: “Are you really so dense or so clueless that you believe that possession of proof of vaccination against Covid will stop you from catching Covid and passing it on to others…”

    I am starting to think you’re not a team player and not following the science.

    Get with the program.

  390. John Main

    Andy Ellis

    Good points.

    Alba could start by making it a manifesto pledge that they will re-instate Not Proven verdicts and jury trials if they ever get power.

    If the SNP really do intend to abolish either of these things I would think it a no-brainer for Alba to be staunch in their defence.

    The electorate need some concrete policy differences between the parties they get to vote for. Presumption of Innocence versus Presumption of Guilt is about as clear a difference as we can find.

  391. chas


    ‘We are fed up with the ranting. We are fed up with the vacuous whinging. We are fed up with the continuous wailing’.

    How astute of you to realise what the majority of readers feel about your posts!

  392. Andy Ellis

    @John Main 3.25 pm

    Tories used to talk about putting “clear blue water” between them and Labour as a way of distancing themselves both from the cost centrism of the succeeding Labour and Tory governments of the decades after 1945, but also as a way of differentiating themselves from “wet” Tories as they sought to carve out a new direction.

    I’ve been saying for a while that we need to put clear tartan water between Alba and the SNP. Self ID and women’s rights is one obvious policy area, as is the separation of powers being discussed by Kenny MacAskill. Progress on land reform, promoting green energy, seeking interim membership of EFTA, decriminalisation of drugs, reform of the education system to emulate best practices in places like Finland, promising early referendums on NATO membership and the monarchy… etc, etc.

    There are lots of possible policy areas we can demonstrate easy wins to differentiate ourselves from the flabby grey-suited managerialism of the neo liberalism that gave us the Growth Commission and Charlotte Street Partners softly, softly approach to indy.

    It’s not just the lack of political courage that’s the problem with the SNP, it’s the “vision thing”. It’s quite apparent now that even if they did somehow discover a backbone to slither up, the SNP leadership’s version of indy would be an etiolated project from the start.

  393. David Caledonia


  394. David Caledonia

    You go out 24 hours ago, come back here and its groundhog day lol

  395. John Main

    Andy Ellis

    Much for me to agree with there – thanks.

    You might have some difficulty convincing me to support the drugs decriminalisation policy though. My view is that most drug users have essentially given up on life. I am not sure why a vibrant, new country would want to incentivise hopelessness amongst its citizens.

    EFTA is good and as far as I would want to go with our “friends” in the EU. A successful, independent Scotland would have no need of the dead hand of Brussels running our affairs to suit the Germans.

    But as I wrote – far more to agree with than argue over.

    I posted several times in the spring calling for Spoil 1 Alba 2 in May. Strange to think that if a few more people (OK, lots more people) had followed that advice, some of what you suggest might now be being talked about at least in and around Hollyrood.

  396. Republicofscotland


    No its not paranoid to think that Salmond, or Mark Hirst or David Lewellyn, or Martin Keating, and of course Marion Millar who is already facing the possibility of prison to find themselves in the dock.

    Juryless trials are in my opinion an affront to a fair trial, the judge may impose the sentence but in my opinion the jury (unless directed by the judge to do so) must have the final say on whether or not someone is guilty on the strength of the evidence put forward.

    Why the reforms why now, if Alex Salmond didn’t have a jury of his peers to pass the verdict, he’d probably be sitting in a cell in Barlinnie right now. Keith Brown is now what passes for the Justice secretary these days.

  397. James Che.

    I have done the leafleting for Alba till my feet were sore, and they handed it over to the snp,
    As I mentioned once before two or three old labour snp succulently smiling told me the results of the election BEFORE the election had taken place, and explained what Alba’s votes would be BEFORE the election,
    Now how do you suppose they knew the outcome in advance?
    We have waited on many dodgy elections and many dodgy promises and now we are being told to wait until the next election.
    It sounds like wgd, and snp mantra.
    Wait, wait, wait, hold it hold it, stay back, back I tell you.
    Sound familiar yet?

  398. Footsoldier

    If SNP members want to attend the Virtual Conference in September as a Member Visitor, it’s going to cost them £36.

    Seems a bit pricey but perhaps they need the money?

  399. Republicofscotland

    What passes for the Scottish media making big noises about a charity opening up yet another drug needle vending machine in Scotland, its small fry compared to chemists giving out free syringes, but it looks good and that’s all that matters to them, that something is actually being done to curb Scotland’s huge death rates from drug abuse

    Thousands of young folk addicted to drugs have died in Scotland, in 2019, 1026 Scots died from drugs abuse, did Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots, say f*ck this I don’t care if drug laws are reserved I’m going to do something to save young Scots lives addicted to drugs? the answer is no, she parroted that she couldn’t do stuff like opening drug consumption rooms which have been proven to save lives and are common place in Europe, because the laws aren’t devolved.

    What kind of FM lets thousands of young Scots die, because they are too spineless to stand up to a foreign government, answer the Sturgeon kind.

    No it took a private citizen to go out in a kitted drug consumption van to help the young Scots, and for his troubles of trying to save his fellow Scots lives the COPFS found it necessary to set Police Scotland on him, what kind of f*cked up government and COPFS stops a man from saving the lives of his fellow country men and women, our young men and women will keep on dying from drug addiction because the spineless Betrayer of Scots Sturgeon won’t break the Westminster reserved matter to save lives.

  400. James Che.

    Actually can here anyone tell me some of Alba’s advancement policies politically since the elections other that a slight suggestion The were slightly going of kilter with global ideology not so long ago.
    I do not mean redirecting me to Alba, as I already have that installed, I want to know how many are aware with others at keeping in touch and who thinks Alba is going to do any better with our sovereignty and our right to choose who governs us,
    The Scottish government and the snp are running riots with our rights an this very moment in time, how long do you think you have?

  401. Gregor

    Intolerance and maliciousness doesn’t help a cohesive Scottish independence movement.

  402. Andy Ellis

    @Jame Che

    I think you’re putting the cart before the horse aren’t you? Alba’s first conference isn’t until September. Current office holders are interim until then, appointed by those who got the party up and running.

    What exactly are you expecting at this stage?

    Don’t we have to wait and see what the membership decide and vote for? I’ve seen some activity for some Alba local branches, but the Lothians/Edinburgh online session isn’t until late this month. Expecting anything to happen at the Holyrood election was always a long shot: the party was too new, and too few people were prepared to make the jump, or had even really engaged with or heard of Alba.

    Perhaps if people like Joanna Cherry and Angus MacNeil and a few MSPs had jumped ship there would have been a bigger bow-wave of support and action now, but realistically there is little alternative to building a new force from the ground up, and that’s not going to happen overnight. I doubt Scottish political culture and environment is conducive to our own equivalent of Macron’s “En Marche”?

    What’s your realistic alternative to building up an organisation that can actually challenge the SNP and potentially hold the balance of power, if not actually supplant them?

    I’m honestly all ears, as I’m sure other Alba members and possible voters will be! The only plausible routes to independence are #indyref 2 (don’t hold your breath!) or plebiscitary elections. Either way we have a few years work to do, no?

  403. Andy Ellis

    @John Main 4.27 pm

    Good to hear. I’ve been persuaded of the case for taking the Portuguese approach to drugs policy. Criminalisation and the “war on drugs” just doesn’t seem to work.

    Of course it doesn’t automatically follow that one country’s experience is directly transferable, but I don’t see why an independent Scotland shouldn’t be looking to countries that do things better, or have better outcomes, and see what we can learn and possibly apply in our own setting?

  404. Republicofscotland

    So the Scottish Opera working base in Glasgow is staging the works of Shakespeare says the sell out news programme STV news. Its all part of the Anglicising of Scotland and suppressing of our own culture and literature.

  405. John Main

    Andy Ellis

    The war on drugs was never compatible with human rights, so human rights prevailed. As a result of Covid, human rights are on the wane, so perhaps a war on drugs could have a better chance in years to come.

    Personally, I could support narcotics legalisation given two conditions:

    1. The penalties for illegal supply to be draconian and enforced. If drug use is to be controlled and safe (known ingredients, etc.) illegal drugs would have to be eliminated.

    2. The costs to society of drug use (also alcohol and tobacco use) to be monitored yearly and the unit prices of each to be set so that the industries cost the state nothing. All downsides of narcotics use (ill health, accidents, crime, etc.) to be funded by the consumers themselves.

    The two conditions go hand-in-hand. Legal drugs would have to be taxed, just as alcohol and tobacco are now. Society can’t allow criminals to undercut the cost to the consumer at the state’s expense when the state is expected to pick up the tab when things go wrong.

    All very utopian of course. As with all income streams, politicians would be unable to resist bumping up the tax take to pay for something else. Then just like with tobacco, headroom would be created for the criminals and smugglers.

    But as I said, Covid is here now. We are going to be watched, monitored, constantly pestered to reveal our identities, and partially or wholly restrained from many of our previous activities. That could give the authorities the ammunition they need to root out the criminals.

    Meantime, governments everywhere are desperate for cash to pay for Covid. I think we can expect to see big changes and drug legalisation could be one. TBH, I don’t see that a change like that would have to wait for prior Scottish Indy. The pace could be set from Westminster.

  406. Breeks

    Andy Ellis says:
    21 July, 2021 at 3:53 pm

    I’ve been saying for a while that we need to put clear tartan water between Alba and the SNP….

    By staying focussed on Independence and Scottish Constitution, there already is clear blue water between ALBA and the SNP.

    I’m not convinced ALBA is gaining anything from fleshing itself out into a mundane all round Party. Stay true to YES ideology and be as broad and welcoming church as can be. Don’t be clear water, be actual water… elusive and difficult to pin down.

    If I was a heid yin in ALBA, my advice would be to open the taps on Scotland’s Constitutional Rights and International Law, and resurrect something very similar in purpose and activity to the SNP’s Scottish UN Committee of the 1970’s to 1980’s set up by Willie MacRae.

    ALBA needs to really own this International Constitutional territory, primarily because it’s the ticket to actual Independence, but also, if the SNP continues to play the roll of meek Devolutionist Party drowning in subservience, then a Constitutionally Savvy ALBA Party, with standing and integrity internationally and at the UN, will be able to take the SNP’s legs out from under it… and that’s either with or without electoral popularity for ALBA.

    If ALBA starts positioning itself as a Sovereign / Constitutional breakaway initiative, that will really put the cat amongst the pigeons in Westminster circles, who must really be revelling in this phoney war period of the SNP’s “Vichy” type impotence.

    I don’t know if Cozy Feet Pete is a drinker or not, but he seems to be morphing into another George Foulkes with every passing day. Something is rotting his brain, if there was ever a brain there to rot.

  407. John Main


    Batman, Spiderman, Superman, WonderWoman, Ironman.

    Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad, South Park.

    Star Wars, Alien, Predator, Bourne, Fast & Furious, Harry P.

    Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, Buffy, Friends.

    I’m hardly scratching the surface here.

    So there is something suppressing our own culture and literature. You got that bit right. It’s not Shakespeare though. Your average Scottish punter seems to prefer all of the stuff above and a lot more of the same.

    Given a free choice, people won’t buy into your socialist realism guff. That disappeared from the world stage when the Soviet Union collapsed.

  408. Republicofscotland

    John Main.

    Scottish history and literature isn’t taught in Scottish schools, most Scots have no idea of their history except in say movies such as Braveheart. Our universities are full of English and co-opted Scottish gatekeepers who want to keep the status quo.

    Broadcasting isn’t devolved and it will never be because its such a good propaganda tool for the union, there are virtually no Scottish programmes on the five terrestrial channels, and STV has sold out to ITV and now carries its entire English content.

    Young Scots and I’d say quite a few older ones as well don’t realise that their own culture and languages Gaelic and Old Scots have been replaced by the foreign language of English.

    I try and illustrate this by saying how many Scots know who many wives King Henry the VIIIth had, and how many Scots know how many King Malcolm’s of Scotland there were, and I’d wager most Scots think MacBeth was just a play written by Shakespeare, and not a real King of Scotland from 1040AD to 1057AD.

  409. James Che.

    Andy Ellis.
    Perhaps you’re ignoring the elephant in the room,
    How about You’re sovereignty, you’re right to choose a new government. You’re right to choose the politicians,The Scottish people’s right to choose a new government? Not the limited selection put before you.
    And in that sovereignty it says nothing about challenging the snp, challenging the Tories, challenging labour, challenging the Green Party, it says nothing about waiting for a further five years for an election run by the establishment , it says nothing about keeping any of the political parties put by design in front of you, it says nothing about even keeping holyrude as your future government.
    It says nothing about waiting for a new group party,
    Scottish politicians and Scottish political parties alike are all well aware of this. But they play the game of sovereignty lies them and with their permission or they would lose employment and finances.
    The plans on how to run an independent Scotland have been discussed, talked about, white papers, green papers, statistics, economists papers, monetary systems, EU or EFTA all put forward, talked over and over by professors, politicians and on the Scottish blog sites etc , put forward for eons, but nothing concrete comes to pass,
    And by the sounds of it never will, because we are playing their game their way and still losing because we will not use our god given Scottish people sovereignty to choose a purely Scottish government.
    We do not have to choose a devolved government, it says absolutely zilch about this issue of choosing a devolved government under sovereignty.
    I do not know how many times I have to say this, but were dammed lucky to have this unasked for sovereignty wrote down by default of a monarch, and repeated and acknowledged that many other countries would be falling over themselves for.
    But in the same breath we treat it like only the politicians can use it to free Scotland or its people, ARE WE SCARED TO USE IT?
    The treaty of the union would be gone if we made that choice.

    If we do not know what we want or where we want to go after 300 years of colonialism, we may as well sit down and shut up. While the politicians continue raping our country’s resources and imprisoning the Scottish people to charges without juries.
    It is not their sovereignty, it ours. And the big elephant in the room.

  410. Mia

    “Coming from the author of numerous repetitive, rambling, pages-long comments, that just has to be a piss take”

    No, it isn’t, actually. Let me spell it more clearly for you:

    It is not words what tells us what Sturgeon’s SNP is. It is what they do and how they do it that does.

    Would a genuine Scottish nationalist party ever use pro indy majorities and mandates to delay for seven years and counting Scotland’s independence handing powers, rights and assets to England during that time like they were handing worthless leaflets?


    And it does not matter how much waffle Sturgeon or her always obliging praetorian guard spout in the National to attempt to make us believe the opposite.

    Was that now clear enough for you, poppet?

  411. JimuckMac

    Our real path to freedom is to stand with the law of the land and not the law of the sea.

    The law of the land dictates that a jury of our peers directs the judge in proceedings, the way it should be.

  412. Mac

    I thought Alex was fucked, given all the lies we were fed throughout the stitch-up. (And even though he won, he was.)

    Funnily enough the two sets of people who were shown the full truth, the jury at AS’s criminal trial, and the Judges at the court of session for the judicial review, came to the stark opposite opinion. To them it is blatant, Alex Salmond was being stitched-up.

    A bunch of ordinary folk in a jury and Scotland’s top level judges… utterly shat on these accusations / charges. Totally exonerated the man.

    I would be so embarrassed as a YES voter in 2014 to have been party to the stitch up of the guy who steered us there.

    Alex is no angel but compared to the people that rat-fucked him… he is.

  413. Andy Ellis

    @Breeks 7.01 pm

    If Alba doesn’t flesh out as a party we’re left with what we already have. How is that going to help matters?

    Trying to appeal to the international community, make plays with reference to our constitutional rights and popular sovereignty, constitutional conventions etc.: none of it will work without a party to help drive it forward.

    I think Alba – or indeed the broader movement – already does own the constitutional territory, particularly with the SNP having effectively been captured by devolutionists and gradualists. When #indyref2 doesn’t hove in to view any time soon, the scales will fall from many people’s eyes.

    Hopefully Alba will be in place to capitalise from that, but there’s also a danger some folk will just get disillusioned and give up on the idea altogether. I don’t see an alternative to trying to stand Alba up as the “real” opposition because we can’t rely on rank and file SNP members to reclaim their party from the basket of deplorables, gradualists and TRA entryists.

    In fact, even if they do, I still reckon they’ll lack the bollocks to push for independence in any reasonable timescale.

  414. Andy Ellis

    @ James Che 7.45 pm

    I still don’t see what concrete steps you think are going to get us from where we are now to the sunny uplands of independence?

    You keep banging on about how lucky we are to have this mythical popular sovereignty, but we need to grow a pair to use it don’t we? Unless you think “the people” are just going to wake up one morning and think “sod this UK malarkey”, march on Holyrood in a Scottish version of la Diada and declare the union over….?

    The international community don’t care about our unique history, the treaties of union or multiple claims of right. They are for the most part fairly incredulous that we can’t even summon the self respect to get the hell out of the dysfunctional UK pronto.

    We have the same right as any other people to self determination.

    We have the same obligations as any other people for demonstrating that our self determination should be recognised.

    Nobody is going to drop independence in our laps or force it on us. We know what we need: a mandate, a clear question if it’s a referendum, a majority whether its a referendum or plebiscitary election.

  415. Brian Doonthetoon

    I think, because of the pandemic, the YES movement has lost momentum. No rallies or marches; left to individual local groups to make their presence known (Bridges for Indy and so on).

    I think it could be A GOOD THING if Alba, Yes Scotland and AUOB got their heads together to formulate plans for a genuine grassroots movement for independence. Rallies, marches, demos, to keep the idea of independence current and in the face of the general public.

    We all know that we can’t depend on the SNP to take the idea of independence forward. It can’t be just down to a single political party. There has to be an ongoing CIVIC demonstration of the desire for independence – and that’s our responsibility.

  416. John Main

    Mia 21 July, 2021 at 8:23 pm

    “Was that now clear enough for you, poppet?”

    Crystal clear Mia. My thanks. See, I knew all along you could do it. You just needed a little push. The readers here don’t really have the time to scroll through your verbal diarrhoea. As I said to you yesterday, quality, not quantity.

    This is so much better for the cause of Scottish Indy.

    Now we’ve improved your written style, we need to focus on your comprehension when reading. Go back to my post of 3:10 pm today and read it over a few more times.

    You will see (I hope) that you spectacularly failed to grasp my point. I can help you there too. Take the time to understand what posters are saying before you dash off a reply. Again, this will be to the eventual benefit of the Scottish Indy cause, so well worth your effort.

    Good Luck!

  417. wee monkey

    Hatuey says:
    20 July, 2021 at 1:04 am
    Quote:- “That’s better, Fred. Now everyone can see you’re straightforwardly an anti-vaxxer and we only have one mask to worry about.

    You started this “conversation” by waxing lyrical about the evolutionary perfection of the human immune system. I correctly pointed out that it had failed to protect at least 200,000 British people and now you’re objecting to that fact by telling me most of them were old people (who don’t seem to qualify as human beings worthy of life in your framework) whilst at the same time casting doubt on the number itself.

    Do you have an original point to make? Because we’ve been up to our necks in this vile crap for over a year…

    Interesting that those who are prone to calling people nazis are so comfortable and cavalier with the unnecessary deaths of 200,000 human beings.

    Have you always believed the life of elderly people was worthless or is it a recent thing?”


    “Angus Robertson slated for saying elderly deaths a ‘gain’ for independence amid pandemic”

    And lo and behold that is what transpired.

    Where IS covid Jane these days, off to a nice, non mortgaged, sunny villa somewhere?

  418. Mia

    “How astute of you to realise what the majority of readers feel about your posts!”

    Well, I am sure the readers must feel even worse about listening over and over again for seven years the same repetitive bullshit and repertoire of fabricated excuses coming from the leader of Sturgeon’s eviscerated SNP to justify her persistent denying of our democratic will, her persistent denying of our right to self determination as a nation, and of course her misplaced “generosity” at handing over to England MPs our powers, rights, control of assets and power to veto without our consent and totally against our interests.

    So of all the bullshit she and her praetorian guard have been force-feeding us with for the last seven years, which one is your favourite?

    I mean, there is so much to choose from that singling out one is a tall order, but pushed to choose, my absolute favourite has to be the tremendous bullshit that indyref cannot happen because we have to convert no voters, all while every year that passes by, every month, more and more no voters from the Kingdom of England come over to Scotland pushing the balance against yes.

    In other words, the longer we wait for indyref, unless this political fraud changes the franchise and ensures the natives can exercise their right to self-determination, what she is in fact doing is ensuring the chances of a yes vote in a future indyref are as low as possible.

    My second favourite bullshit of an excuse to avoid progressing independence is that boring old line of:

    “Didn’t you notice there is pandemic about?”

    Yeah, you bet we noticed! As we have noticed that a pandemic and 200,000 dead people in the UK are certainly obstacle for England MPs to take over our powers and assets, to force us out of the EU, to steal from our farmers their share of the Scottish market to make space for England’s produce and to force us into toxic trade deals.

    So, if you had to choose one among all the bullshit she delivered over the last seven years, which one would it be?

    Go on, you know you want to.

  419. Mia

    “The readers here don’t really have the time to scroll through your verbal diarrhoea”

    And did they nominated you as their official spokesperson or it was your overinflated ego and sense of self-entitlement by themselves what decided it was appropriate for you to self-appoint yourself for the role?

    “As I said to you yesterday, quality, not quantity”
    Sturgeon’s spin doctors and spads do not seem to agree with you, mind. They have given us seven years of truckloads of poor quality bullshit. It is the quantity and not the quality of that bullshit what appears to be keeping Sturgeon in power.

    “This is so much better for the cause of Scottish Indy”
    What is? Keeping me silent?

    “Now we’ve improved your written style”
    “we”? I am sorry but that sounds a tad crowded from where I am standing.

    “we need to focus on your comprehension when reading”
    “we” again? is that the royal we?

    “Go back to my post of 3:10 pm today and read it over a few more times”
    No thank you. Once is quite enough. You must be incredibly proud of the underwhelming nonsense you write, but hey, does not mean the rest have to be too.

    “You will see (I hope) that you spectacularly failed to grasp my point”
    Oh trust me, I grasped your “point” very well.

    “I can help you there too”
    Is that you, or Murray Foote doing the talking?

    “this will be to the eventual benefit of the Scottish Indy cause”
    You can send your attempt at gaslighting right back at Sturgeon’s SNP spin doctors. I am not interested, thank you. There is only one thing that will benefit Scotland’s Indy cause and that is an actual pro indy and real Scottish nationalist FM that is willing to uphold democracy, willing to uphold the right of the people of Scotland to exercise self determination as a nation and that refuses to abuse their position of power to hand over to England MPs our powers, rights and assets while feeding us tons of bullshit to distract us from it. For as long as what we have is a political fraud that is more aligned with New Labour and unionism than with Scottish nationalism and Scotland’s independence, my effort to progress independence, the same as your effort trying to shut me up, is futile.

    Good Luck!
    Same to you.

  420. John Main

    Oh Mia!

    So sad to see you backsliding already. I really thought you had it in you to do better.

  421. Pixywine

    Vaccine passports are a pretext for implementing an ID card. Hence Tony Blairs mad slaverings of late.

  422. Pixywine

    The ennui from certain rapid fire posters is stultifying

  423. Mia

    “I really thought you had it in you to do better”

    I don’t think there is one single genuine Scottish independence supporter reading this blog who, with all the opportunities and tools put at her disposal, didn’t have in 2015 much, much higher expectations for Sturgeon’s performance than the underwhelming, deflated, watered down and at times pathetically submissive, performance we have got instead.

    Hell I am sure many of them expected she would have delivered Scotland’s independence by now because frankly, several opportunities to do so have been handed to her on a silver tray over the last seven years. Instead, she has chosen to throw all those opportunities in the bin.

    Sadly she turned out to be the biggest flop, the biggest loser and the biggest political disappointment in Scotland since devolution started. She will go down in the history books as the FM who handed on her own more powers and assets over to England MPs than all the unionist FM combined.

    When a labour Welsh FM gives the appearance of being far more progressive and more in tune with nationalism that this so called Scottish nationalist, when a Welsh labour FM is alarmed at the withdrawal bill railroading Scotland’s sovereignty while this nationalist in name only “leader” doesn’t even bat an eyelid, you know her natural political environment is not the SNP and what defines her affinity is far closer to the obsessive unionism of New Labour than it is to Scottish nationalism.

    But hey, life is full of disappointments, isn’t it?

  424. Fred

    “Have you always believed the life of elderly people was worthless or is it a recent thing?”

    Your sick words not mine Hatuey.

  425. Robert Graham

    Pixywine @ 9:59

    Thanks for the link

    Those people who are carrying their ‘ I AM VACCINATED ‘ badge like a I am a winner in some fkn game show are proving herd stupidity does exist .

    Maajid Nawaz on LBC Radio right now giving a totally reasonable alternative view of events surrounding this Plague and how the eh Cure mini Hazmat Suit in and bottle is being sold , promoted coerced, bribed , forced by removing access to normal services unless you submit to the machine .

    Countries all over the world are testing to see how far they can push a mostly stupid public , if it works they press ahead and all the rest copy it , if it doesn’t and they get resistance it’s withdrawn and modified but this Juggernaut ain’t stopping it will crush all opposition unless we stop it .

    Oh god a dumb caller is embarrassing himself right now by arguing with the presenter who is giving him facts not fkn government fiction and he is too fkn dumb to take it in , oh god This 24 / 7 relentless bloody mind control will take a lot to turn round.

  426. sarah

    @ Breeks at 9.29: your reading of Alex Salmond tallies with mine. I don’t know him at all but his demeanour at the Holyrood Fabiani inquiry, and the line that he took for Alba in the May election, show his principled and decent approach. He will not do anything to harm the independence cause.

    Unfortunately for him he seems to credit other people with his own virtues so he thought that M/s Sturgeon was a rational, competent and principled person. He also never realised that the BBC would be so unprincipled in the referendum campaign. He even touched Brian Taylor on the shoulder as he walked past him having resigned as FM, as if he thought Brian Taylor was a good guy.

    It is a tragedy for Alex, for all we independence supporters, and for those of us who value truth and justice.

  427. Fred

    Robert Graham says:
    21 July, 2021 at 10:30 pm
    Pixywine @ 9:59

    “Thanks for the link”

    Ditto, keep them coming.

  428. Hugh Jarse

    Surely, all we need to help reassure with vaccine hesitancy, is for Big Pharma to accept legal liability for their products.
    If the juice is good, what’s the problem?

    Good luck to them in finding insurers.
    (They can’t/ won’t!)

  429. Fishy Wullie

    Mia says:
    21 July, 2021 at 9:26 pm

    So, if you had to choose one among all the bullshit she delivered over the last seven years, which one would it be?


    My name is Nicola Sturgeon and my pronouns are ……..

  430. Hatuey

    Poxy: “Vaccine passports are a pretext for implementing an ID card.”

    So that’s the dastardly objective. The bastards engineered a global pandemic and killed millions just to make us use ID cards.

    The continental Europeans must be raging. They’ve had ID cards for about 60 years.


  431. Stuart MacKay


    You forget that Salmond could potentially have been charged if he gave evidence about the conspiracy. The path he took in the inquiry let him take a principled and decent stance without pointing fingers. He at least draw all the dots but left it up to others to join them together.

    The inquiry was an opportunity for Salmond to show that he wasn’t some obscene monster bent on revenge. Anything other than the stance he took would have played right into the hands of the conspirators.

  432. Stuart MacKay


    > The bastards engineered a global pandemic and killed
    > millions just to make us use ID cards.

    Maybe not in that order but the vendors of cards and reader and databases would not let an opportunity to deploy networks of equipment worth billions slip through their fingers.

    It was the same circus after the twin tower attacks in the USA and the deployment of scanners at airports.

    That’s the problem with the stances taken in the covid debate. It’s all based on grains of truth in some form or another but it’s how you assemble all the pieces that create the picture you want that causes all the trouble.

  433. Hatuey

    Stuart, yes, these crazy theories rely on grains of truth and interpretation but they rely more on poorly educated crackpots who are unable to distinguish between plausible and implausible.

    There are people out there who genuinely believe the whole thing was about getting us to sign up for Amazon Prime.

    How many people have died because they listened to all this crap and didn’t get vaccinated?

    It’s bananas. Sometimes you’ve just got to tell people they’re crackers, for their own good.

  434. Southernbystander

    Covid = covert ID.

    The bastards actually named it after what they are trying to do.

  435. Republicofscotland

    A excellent article by Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp in the National newspaper today, on how Westminster is slowly but surely dismantling devolution, whilst Sturgeon does nothing.

  436. Republicofscotland

    So a Scottish Tory MSP is up in arms because a Scottish SNP MP asked English folk coming to Scotland to respect Scotland’s stricter Covid rules.

    F*ck this Tory, Scotland isn’t England, and if you want to visit by all means do so, but follow the rules. We in Scotland should not need to apologise for our rules surrounding Covid, no other country would.

    These Tory b*stards are attempting to put across that there’s no differences between Scotland and England, there is.

  437. Republicofscotland

    Staying on Tory b*stards for a minute the English International Trade secretary Lizz Truss had the audacity to say that Scottish businesses are excited about post-Brexit opportunities, whilst on a quick stop visit to Scotland.

    Truss visited Glasgow where 66% of folk voted to remain in the EU, and overall 62% of folk in Scotland voted to remain, now with the Scottish fishing industry on its knees, the Aussie Trade deal about to destroy our farming industry, and the our fruit pickers all gone back to the EU, with fields of soft fruits rotting, never mind the eighty-plus pages of documents per load to just get delivery into the EU these days, Brexit has been a disaster for the majority of Scottish businesses, and we’ve still got the US trade deal that will see Scotland flooded with inferior US products, that will put more folk out of work, and our NHS will surely be a target for US pharma corporations.

  438. Mia

    There is an article published in the national today titled “Dismantling of devolution will be straw that breaks the union’s back”. This article was written by Mr Gordon Mcintyre Kemp

    Surely I cannot be the only one that just looks at such title and gets immediately put off reading the article itself.

    What is the message that such title aims to convey? is it trying to tell us that the only chance we have to see the end of the union is to rely on the mistakes made by England MPs mistakes?
    Is the message that Scotland will only get its independence if England chooses so?
    Or the message is blatant propaganda that aims to get indy supporters to actually embrace the assault on our powers by England MPs and seeing it as a positive instead of what it is:

    an abject and appalling failure of an alleged nationalist Scottish government, an alleged nationalist FM, an allegedly nationalist parliament and an absolute majority of allegedly nationalist MP seats to deliver Scotland’s independence for the sake of enabling England to continue sucking from Scotland’s resources in order to survive the nefarious consequences of its ill advised political choices?

    Whose interests are Sturgeon’s SNP protecting, those of the Scottish people or those of England’s ruling elite?

    Such title implies that it does not matter if we send 4 or 59 SNP MPs to Westminster, it does not matter if we vote SNP in HOlyrood or council elections or not, because effectively, for as long as Sturgeon or her chums remain in control of the party, SNP seats in Westminster, Holyrood and councils are about as useful as having a facebook app in your phone when you cannot be arsed using facebook.

    If they are so utterly useless at accelerating the process of ending the union or actually deliver it themselves, which is what many vote them in for, what on earth do we want SNP MPs and MSPs sitting in both parliaments for?

    What is it exactly we are voting SNP for?

    To give charlatans, devolutionists and careerists a salary and the chance of a nice pension?

    To keep us distracted by being fed truckloads of propaganda, soundbites and bullshit?

    To make us believe it is all the tories’ fault when in reality the fault lies on what has become a completely toothless party whose apparent latest aim is just to continue pretending to be pro independence while for the last SEVEN YEARS the only thing it has been doing is to use pro indy votes to ensure the union keeps going, to legitimise with their presence in UK structures those UK structures and to enable England MPs to continue exploiting Scotland and trashing our democratic rights?

    Nicola Sturgeon has been in power for almost SEVEN YEARS. That is almost a decade. That is longer than what WWII lasted. During those SEVEN YEARS time England got its freedom in the form of Brexit. What has Scotland got?

    Nicola Sturgeon has enjoyed continuous pro indy majorities in Holyrood. She even inherited an actual SNP absolute majority in Holyrood that she then commanded for a whole year and a half.

    Her lack of urgency in delivering independence is so exaggerated that she even chose to sacrifice the second vote of hundreds of thousands of yes supporters for the sake of preserving unionist parties presence in Holyrood. How generous of her!

    We criticised Dugdale bitterly for encouraging tory votes. But, apparently, Sturgeon cannot possibly be criticised for actually driving yes voters to deliberately waste their votes so as to ensure labour, libdems and tories kept their presence in Holyrood and maintain the illusion Sturgeon’s SNP is still a pro indy party, rather than actually act like one. Today, after SEVEN YEARS of total inaction from Sturgeon, SNP MPs and MSPs, this toothless SNP relies almost exclusively on the presence of unionist parties in Holyrood to retain a modicum of credibility as a pro indy party. How pathetic is that?

    It is hard to believe that Scotland has been treated the way it has when during those SEVEN YEARS, Nicola Sturgeon presided over THREE absolute majority of SNP MPs among Scotland’s allocated seats in the HoC. In 2015, we sent 56 SNP MPs to Westminster. This means that from 8th May 2015 to 4 May 2016 this woman led BOTH an absolute majority of SNP MSPs and an absolute majority of SNP MPs. And what did she achieve during that time in the constitutional subject?


    I cannot possibly be the only one who expected this woman to actually do something with such majorities other than simply collect them like one collects stamps in an album. Stamps may earn value with time, but certainly wasting majorities, like Ms Sturgeon has been doing pretty much since day one, certainly do not. Use them or lose them, as they say. If you do not use the majorities and mandates and you let them expire, as Sturgeon has been doing continuously for the last seven years, they do not acquire historical value. They lose all practical value.

    Is this the reason why Ms Sturgeon has been wasting SEVEN YEARS of Scotland’s time? Was her objective to keep Scotland on a leash during the difficulties of brexit to preserve the union? Was her remake to keep Scotland on a leash at a time when the people of Scotland realised they were fooled and betrayed by the vow and responded by sending absolute majorities of what they thought were independence warriors to both parliaments?

    There was a recent article in the National written by Ms Cherry that, if I understood correctly, highlighted that the inaction of Sturgeon in progressing independence and her obsessive determination to keep the indy troops’ wheels spinning on air going nowhere, appear to have plummeted the support for independence from 58% to 50%.

    Is the fall in the support of independence rather than its increase what Sturgeon is seeking by deliberately not doing anything at all to progress independence and by allowing every opportunity that leads to a natural increase in support for independence to pass us by? Is her aim to strangle the hopes of the pro indy supporters and forcing them to submit to the idea that the union is here to stay?

    One has to wonder, quite frankly.

    Looking at her appalling performance in the constitutional matter over the last SEVEN YEARS, one also needs to ask what is Ms Sturgeon’s real political allegiance. Because wasting SEVEN YEARS of Scotland’s time, wasting absolute majority after absolute majority, wasting mandate after mandate, using excuse after excuse to not deliver indyref or heaven forbid independence, attacking the Keatings’ case rather than pursuing it as a nationalist government and gladly handing over to England MPs our powers, rights and assets without even putting a fight other than a few soundbites, do not seem the traits of a real nationalist, nor even those of a weak independence supporter. They seem the traits of a closeted unionist that is determined to preserve the union what come may even if that means destroying democracy and the credibility of every institution of government in the process.

    So I would like to ask again:

    If the SNP MPs and MSPs “cannot”/will not pull their weight and actually make use of the opportunities at their disposal, which have been many in the last seven years, to deliver independence, what the hell do we want them for? What use are they for?

    When you remove all the platitudes, soundbites and lipservice to independence from most of the SNP MPs and MSPs (bar very few exceptions), what exactly is distinguishing Sturgeon’s SNP from Starmer’s labour?

  439. Stoker

    Breeks says on 21 July, 2021 at 7:01 pm:

    “By staying focussed on Independence and Scottish Constitution, there already is clear blue water between ALBA and the SNP.

    I’m not convinced ALBA is gaining anything from fleshing itself out into a mundane all round Party. Stay true to YES ideology and be as broad and welcoming church as can be. Don’t be clear water, be actual water… elusive and difficult to pin down.

    If I was a heid yin in ALBA, my advice would be to open the taps on Scotland’s Constitutional Rights and International Law, and resurrect something very similar in purpose and activity to the SNP’s Scottish UN Committee of the 1970’s to 1980’s set up by Willie MacRae.

    ALBA needs to really own this International Constitutional territory, primarily because it’s the ticket to actual Independence, but also, if the SNP continues to play the roll of meek Devolutionist Party drowning in subservience, then a Constitutionally Savvy ALBA Party, with standing and integrity internationally and at the UN, will be able to take the SNP’s legs out from under it… and that’s either with or without electoral popularity for ALBA.

    If ALBA starts positioning itself as a Sovereign / Constitutional breakaway initiative, that will really put the cat amongst the pigeons in Westminster circles, who must really be revelling in this phoney war period of the SNP’s “Vichy” type impotence.”

    And also:

    Brian Doonthetoon says on 21 July, 2021 at 9:06 pm:

    “I think, because of the pandemic, the YES movement has lost momentum. No rallies or marches; left to individual local groups to make their presence known (Bridges for Indy and so on).

    I think it could be A GOOD THING if Alba, Yes Scotland and AUOB got their heads together to formulate plans for a genuine grassroots movement for independence. Rallies, marches, demos, to keep the idea of independence current and in the face of the general public.

    We all know that we can’t depend on the SNP to take the idea of independence forward. It can’t be just down to a single political party. There has to be an ongoing CIVIC demonstration of the desire for independence – and that’s our responsibility.”

    I have nothing further to add, M’Lud, i rest my case.

    OK, so i lied, i do have something further to add. We could do with ‘His Nibs’ back in the fight. WOS has to be an integral part for rapid achievement.

  440. Stuart MacKay


    > unable to distinguish between plausible and implausible

    But that’s kind of the problem, isn’t it. Only a couple of years ago I would have said it was impossible for the US government to be recording every phone call and every email sent throughout most of the world but Edward Snowden showed otherwise.

    Similarly I’m sure the people with MBAs (Masters of Business Administration) are working themselves into a lather thinking of the profits from 8 billion people having to get vaccinated every 6 months.

    So we have a situation where large forces are at play and there’s poor reporting, little understanding and no critical assessment going on. Throw in attention seekers, charlatans and frauds and no wonder the man and woman on the street struggle to make sense of it all or simply accept whatever the “accepted wisdom” is.

    For me the real failure is not in the fruitcakes but having a system that is so utterly worthless and untrustworthy that the fruitcakes appear in the first place.

  441. Stuart MacKay


    > what exactly is distinguishing Sturgeon’s SNP from Starmer’s labour

    Baby boxes???

  442. Mia

    @ Stuart MacKay

    “Baby boxes?”

    Ha,ha,ha!! Absolutely, how could I have missed that one?

  443. Dan

    @ ROS at 10.20am

    Re. Scotland having a say in any future trade deals and protecting NHS Scotland, it appears it isn’t just the Tories elected down south we need to be concerned about…
    Re-posted from a few days ago.

    I’d like to see some kind of explanation or rebuttal from the SNP regarding the content in the linked tweet thread.
    But then again, what might we expect from them when the current SNP President Michael Russell has in the past written about the subject.

  444. Republicofscotland

    David Pratt’s article in the National newspaper today, pointing out what a gutless bunch the SNPs MPs have become.

  445. Republicofscotland

    Dan @10.57am.

    Indeed that’s true Dan, I posted your first link on Iain Lawson’s blog last week, I’d say that the SNP government are becoming more neoliberal.

    You might want to read this.

    “But what the people of Scotland do not realise is that 129 MSP’s, under cover of the referendums, reformed our NHS to do the same as England – without holding a discussion with the people of Scotland.”

    “MSP’s have merged all NHS services (except hospitals) with every social work department in Scotland and more importantly merged the budgets of both in each health board region of Scotland.”

    “MSP’s have created new “Health and Social Care Partnerships” across Scotland so they can “commission services” for the NHS and social work (privatisation by stealth). ”,%22commissioning%20model%22%20to%20privatise%20the%20NHS%20in%20England.

  446. Jack Murphy

    sarah said at 11 pm last night:

    “……Unfortunately for him [Alex Salmond] he seems to credit other people with his own virtues so he thought that M/s Sturgeon was a rational, competent and principled person…..”

    “He even touched Brian Taylor on the shoulder as he walked past him having resigned as FM, as if he thought Brian Taylor was a good guy.

    It is a tragedy for Alex, for all we independence supporters, and for those of us who value truth and justice…….”

    Agree—-I remember so well how Alex conducted himself at his Resignation Speech in Bute House, and as he left the room for the last time, the squeeze on Brian Taylor’s left shoulder who was seated beside the aisle.

    It brought a lump to my throat and a tear to my eye.

  447. James Che.

    Republic of Scotland.
    Many good points in both of your commentries.
    The first is that bojo is trying to dismantle devolution, I believe this to be pretty close to the truth. Even If he does not do it directly it is looking pretty serious,
    This is one of the reasons I cannot understand the wgd approach from Andy Ellis, and the Snp.

    A Second issue that is important is The need to recognise our own people’s sovereignty, as without this NS and bojo can stop us achieving any marches or rallies,
    For me trying to see through the legal jargon, even under the health act, this cannot legally override sovereignty, with private rights, freedom of movement and freedom of speech. It should be Advisory only from any governments to people that are recognised as sovereign.
    And is one area that NS is overstepping her legal position in Scotland.

    Thirdly, the idea that Alba has to be a party following Westminster’s rules or the Scottish governments with backing from the electoral establishment put paid to any fairness and is of the game before it starts.
    It boils down to playing their rules, their permission, their say so, and they even get to transport the final votes of any election to wherever they want without any oversight, especially under covid rules.

    Fourth. Stoker what you came up with as an idea for the position Alba should take as a sovereign Scottish Party in their own right ( free from Scotland devolved government controls from Westminster) is the right direction to go forward with.
    This is where having the right to do this legally comes back to the Scottish people’s sovereignty.
    Combine that with the sovereignty of the people to rally or march without restrictions is taking the misinformation and mantra right out of the hands of the existing politicians.

    This ought to be done sooner rather than later, as bojo’s idea of demolishing a Scottish Parliament to rubble, with NS help would leave us with no infrastructure to build on,

  448. J.o.e

    ‘Unfortunately for him [Alex Salmond] he seems to credit other people with his own virtues so he thought that M/s Sturgeon was a rational, competent and principled person’

    Same can be said for all well meaning people. That’s why we are where we are.

  449. James Che.

    Correction. Insert, End of the game.

  450. Meg merrilees

    Mia@ 10.22 and Stoker@10.23

    I agree with your words.

    SEVEN YEARS is a long time in politics but these seven years have been a tumultuous time in British politics, especially Westminster’s.
    Three PM’s Cameron, May and now Boris in 7 years!

    English votes for English laws creating a two tier system in W/minster – creating second class MP’s – surely a breach of the Union where we are suppose to be in an equal partnership with England.

    Brexit which was supported by England and Wales but not Scotland and N.Ireland. England got the ‘freedom’ they wanted; N. Ireland seemed to have the best of both worlds but how that is crumbling; wales has now decided it didn’t want to Brexit and Scotland has been seriously wounded in trade matters.

    Brexit has been a clear breach of the Union, especially the creation of a trade barrier in the Irish Sea.
    This is the very thing that David Fluffy Mundell(remember him) and (t)Ruthless, now Baroness Lundin Links, said they would resign over if it was created.
    She who now has joined the House of Lords and will sit in W/minster with her acolyte Lord Duncan(he who failed to get elected for Perth a few years back) planning a ‘New Constitution and Act of Union’ within earshot of Boris and possibly even at his behest.
    You can be sure that while Nicola chases after the woke vote and gender issues, Ruth will be deciding Scotland’s future and a separate path is not part of her plan.
    She is more dangerous than ever now and all that Nicola could do was tease her at FMQ’s, trying to embarrass her while Ruth calmly continued her long-term, straightforward goal of keeping Scotland in this parasitic Union.

    Some of our most successful businesses have been severely damaged by Brexit and Covid, think seafood, whisky exports, salmon farming, fishing, tourism and still Nicola urges us to wait until the time is right, people’s livelihoods are collapsing and it will get worse.
    Wind farm licences are being auctioned off, oil has been drained and now climate challenge will reduce that industry onto its knees.
    Now is the time, the window is closing and like lemmings a great percentage of our fellow Scots cannot see further than the end of their nose, they want their holiday abroad and material things instead of the most fundamental thing of all – freedom for the Nation that is Scotland.
    History will not be kind to Ms. Sturgeon and her government. As you say, she has wasted mandate after mandate.
    We are weaker now than ever in terms of Indy support; she will probably never again have such a weak opponent as Boris nor such an open goal as Brexit to make her move and she dithers!
    It’s a bit like watching a bad football match where neither side wants to win but eventually the bigger team will call time when it suits them and score on the whistle.
    We need to come together, to keep the flame burning, and show the world that the dream is not snuffed out – the dream will never die!

    Nicola was handed a ‘racing certainty’ at the most recent election. Vote SNP 1, ALBA 2.
    Any politician seriously wanting Independence would have grasped the thistle – Indy first and then sort things out.
    But not Nicola, she had to bring personal vendettas into it and cause people to vote against a supermajority allowing the odious Stephen Kerr, amongst others, into Holyrood.
    Mind you, hindsight might show us that we have escaped a bullet by not giving her such a huge majority if she truly does not have Scotland’s best interests at heart.

    The inertia in the Indy movement is a sair fecht!

  451. Andy Ellis

    @James Che 11.38 am

    I’m not advocating a WGD or SNP approach. I’ve asked you repeatedly, and you repeatedly seem unable or unwilling to answer, exactly what it is in concrete terms that you are advocating that will bring us an iota closer to Independence Day?

    We don’t have to follow Westminster’s rules, but we do have to secure international recognition for any of this to be worthwhile. There are a limited number of routes to achieving independence that will attract recognition. A referendum is one, plebiscitary elections are another.

    Marches and rallies won’t deliver independence: if it did the Catalans would already be independent: I doubt we’d manage to shift