Wings Over Scotland

This as the endemic and ingrained institutional corruption in Scotland that many of us who have worked in the business sector have known about for years is revealed; where the Scottish government led by the corrupt lying criminal Nicola Sturgeon is shown to be an organisation where all that counts is money and your ability to satisfy Nicola Sturgeon’s endless and psychopathic obsession with power and cynical virtue signalling and dangling of the Indy ref 2 carrot is used as a distraction to keep all eyes away from the truth. Scotland is lost, what an absolute joke of a country.

Meanwhile the comments will descend into the usual ethno nationalist rantings about who’s Scottish enough to have a say, demented dribblings about sovereignty by people who have not got the first idea and of course the old favourite, blaming the english for everything…

Haha

Honestly, I am not sure Andrew Neil even realises it, but the news right wing propaganda channel is like a sketch from Little Britain. You can almost hear the voice over by Tom Baker ‘..did you know, GB news was invented in 1707 by Sir Issac Newton – no, neither did I..’

GB news is just an epic fail by some neo-fascist money men. It’s like ‘The Day today’ for rich bigots.

Meanwhile in Sturgeon’s Scotland, Michaal Russell sent an email this week telling SNP members that Westminster wasn’t working for Scotland. The response to which might be, ‘well why has the SNP not done something about it – they are in government after all, with at least six mandates to call an independence referendum?’ It seems The SNP leadership would rather spend their days making up excuse after excuse for not getting Scotland out of the unwanted and wholly undermocratic so-called ‘union’ with England.

The SNP, the devolutionist party, fighting to keep Scotland under England’s jackboot.

@Shocked 7:28am

Bless. Wee Shocked is in a bad mood this morning.

The people of Scotland are sovereign in Scotland. There, that’s sure to cheer him up.

“Moon howlers” how apt.

As I join another couple of hundred of skilled staff being disposed off due to the economic fallout of the dangling carrot, if you want evidence of how the sturgeon cabal ( and if you voted for it then you are responsible) has fucked Scotland just compare June’s investment figures between England and Scotland.
1 investment alone is in the billions pound range, a new battery plant in Northumbria creating 5000 jobs, 3000 permanent….
In the meantime the best the SNP can come up with is to relocate an entire distillery to fucking China to allow them to produce a “world leading” scotch.. the irony should not be lost on anyone.

Oh and don’t forget to book your ferry trip a minimum of 4 months in advance or gamble on a standby …..remember snp1/2…

Nice one Chris Brillo aka Neil, and GB news for that matter is nothing but an echo chamber.

Meanwhile, a friend of Neil, Ruth (I love the Rape Clause) Davidson, finally has her House of lords title, she’s to be known as Baroness Davidson of Lundin Links, apparently the title refers to a small Fife village where Davidson grew up.

Davidson hasn’t been sworn in yet, but when she is like the other unelected ermine vermin she’ll have a say on Scotland and its future.

We know that this Holyrood term under Sturgeon the Betrayer won’t lead to an indyref, Sturgeon has hinted that she’ll stand down in 2026, good riddance I say.

Anyway Angus B. MacNeil has come out and said that the 2026 Scottish elections MUST be a plebiscite on indy via a indyref, McNeil sent a letter to Johnson requesting the S30 only to be turned down, still its more than the Betrayer of Scots, Sturgeon did.

I was thinking 2026 surely with Sturgeon gone, and hopefully Murrell as well, though I’ll be voting for the Alba party from now on, surely that gives us enough time to organise and protest for a indyref to be held in 2026. (SIM) or/and (AUOB) would have plenty of time from now until then to focus on it during their marches pro-indy politicians, apart from the trans obsessed Greens and most of the gutless SNP MSPs/MPs could also mention it in paper columns or interviews. Getting the idea into peoples minds that it will happen come 2026 is the goal.

Thanks for that Chris – made me chuckle.

The problem with GB News is that we already have a unionist right wing Great Brutish misinformation and propoganda channel,

you don`t open a small grocers next to a 24hr Tesco superstore.

The one positive about GB News is they are not captivated by the transcult the woke and and all their misogynistic handmaidens.

A couple of interesting points, one he’s often criticised and rightly so, but Hungarian leader Viktor Orban has banned any LGBTI+ education in schools. whereas in Scotland we have a drag queen taken into primary schools which must confuse small children, into the bargain the drag queen, had lurid pictures on his social media account.

Secondly, a Dutch company (Shell) and a Spanish company (Scottish Power) are to build one of the largest wind farms off the coast of Scotland, will our electricity costs in Scotland fall when it goes live, two, will the wind farm structures be built in Scotland, and three do the royals receive a fair chunk of cash due to the huge wind farms being built on Crown Estates water, as the English queen claims rights to Scottish water, above her consent to allow 6,000 sq miles of Scottish waters to have been stolen already.

Quote :- “Crown Estates water, as the English queen claims rights to Scottish water, above her consent to allow 6,000 sq miles of Scottish waters to have been stolen already.”

More lies and deception from a moon howler

There is no such thing as “crown estates water” the crown foreshore itself being handed over to SNH ( now natureScotland) by scot gov years ago.

link to thecrownestate.co.uk

On an increasingly busy seabed, we work closely with industry and stakeholders to help ensure the waters of England, Wales and Northern Ireland continue to be a brilliant place to invest. We also manage around half of the foreshore surrounding these areas.

Is it because the moons out during daylight or something??

Ha ha! Well done, Chris.

Did you notice Sir Brillo of Paisley had removed himself from the firing line a week ago? Wee investor meetings behind the scenes? Something is definitely up or going down at GB News.

Here’s how Barbardos grabbed its independence and is soon to become a republic – all achieved *without* a referendum.

Your essential weekend reading:

‘The Republic of Barbados’ – link to wp.me

On Barbados, I’m all for calling back our MPs from Westminster and holding a vote at Holyrood and if the MSPs/MPs vote yes to independence declare it there and then.

Westminster shouldn’t have any say whatsoever on it, it s a foreign country with its own government, once we’ve declared independence, we begin negotiations with Westminster to ditch this rancid union for good.

As most of the public had already elected the person they want to represent them on May 6th, their interests will have been catered for in the vote, its as simple as that.

The big stumbling block is Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots and EU citizens, she isn’t interested in doing anything to gain Scottish independence, so unless we can remove her and replace her with a real pro-indy FM with courage, then nothing will happen on the indyfront.

Alex Salmond has hinted that this is the way forward, its a pity we have a gutless sniveling wee lying shit in Bute house instead of him.

If only the British State were lying down on the job, Chris.

Unfortunately, it’s just passed the Covert Human Intelligence Act, which indemnifies a huge number of state “actors” like the police, army, intelligence services and many others from criminal prosecution for acts carried out in the execution of their duties.

Next up will be the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill which, among many other nasties, will be used by the state to prevent demonstrations and other expressions of dissent.

Then there is Online Safety Bill which, supposedly intended to thwart terrorism and child sex abuse (for which plenty of legislation has already been passed), will be used to shut down any website or platfom disseminating opinions the government doesn’t like, like this one for example.

The cherry on the authoritarian cake will be The Counter State Threats Bill, which will criminalise whistle-blowers and any journalist who publicises their revelations.

All these assaults on our freedom are of course being carried out nice and quietly during the Covid crisis, while the First Minister says she can do nothing about anything until Covid and its consequences are sorted out completely.

Very soon it will be too late for those who wish to live in a free and open society and our nation of unsuspecting wee lobsters will discover that the nicely-warming water is not what it seems to be…….

Flu jabs and booster covids aside, at present there is also a one of pneumococcal jab for the over 65’s, this should be 60’s and over. In addition there is a one of jab for the over 70’s for the shingles, this should be 65 !

Here’s a bit of light reading about our neighbours as others are increasingly seeing them and with more than a few home truths.

They could have added the question of why the Italians don’t go on and on about the Roman Empire – it’s because they choose to live in the 21st century.

Warning : the first photo may harm those of a sensitive nature.

link to archive.is

RepublicOfScotland

“Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots and EU citizens”

You are in error there Republic.

No rationally thinking Scot ever voted for Sturgeon or anybody else at Hollyrood to represent or in any way advance the prospects of EU citizens within Scotland.

So it is not possible for EU citizens to have been betrayed.

John Main.

Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots and EU citizens failed to hold an indyref after Brexit, even though she knew the consequences of Brexit on EU citizens, never mind the detrimental effects of it on Scots.

Alex Salmond left Sturgeon on a 45% all she needed was 6% swing and Brexit easily gave her that, but she decided to try and save England from Brexit instead of saving Scots and EU citizens from the affects of it.

TBH I too would prefer Alba didn’t comment on stuff like that. It serves no purpose. I think they should concentrate on Indy and Indy alone.

Despite the assumptions of some on here who don’t bother asking your opinion, preferring instead to tell you your opinion, I have doubts about vaccinating kids. I’ve had doubts about that from the start.

The data and science don’t combine to make a compelling enough case for vaccinating kids, not yet anyway — not on the basis of the current variants.

If, as forecast, we are going to see a 95% uptake of the vaccine amongst adults in the UK, that should be enough to break the back of the pandemic and help get us back to something very close to normal.

@Andy Ellis (9.41) –

I have no idea who approved that message from Alba. I seriously doubt it was Alex Salmond, but even if it wasn’t, it betrays a lack of awareness which is truly shocking.

Corri Wilson’s ‘message’ to Alba members last night was quite good, considering she was working with so little, but the clear emphasis was on asking us, the members, to set about using the knowledge we’ve gained from years of campaigning for ‘other parties’ (very diplomatic!) and just get on with it.

For a major policy decision of this sort to appear with no consultation of members is nothing short of disgraceful. There’s no way I could set up an Alba stall in the Bridgegate, Irvine, and deal with people asking about this ‘policy’. It is utterly indefensible.

Alex Salmond made it very clear, not long after Alba was formed, that women’s rights would be a significant plank in policy formation. It doesn’t take a genius to work out why he did that.

But he has never – ever – expressed any opinion on the lockdown policy and/or vaccination roll-out. That’s why this is so shocking, and will be flatly unacceptable to many Alba members. You may not like it Andy, but the Twitter reaction, thus far anyway, has been angry and disbelieving.

I will not support a party – any party – that adopts such a position. Period. Alba was meant to offer something fresh, different, and honest. If it can’t bring itself to condemn the proposed ‘vaccination’ of children with a product which has already caused thousands of deaths and seriously adverse reactions, then I want fuck all to do with it.

Gutted that our cordial exchanges over the years have come to this. Really quite sad, but, hey, we are where we are.

I wish you well sah, and bid you goodnight!

Nice one Chris.
There’s a series here.
Flouncing flaneur, the mentalist Oliver waffles for this mob.

Alec Salmond has lost me. You cannot subject school children to a dangerous gene therapy experiment. Fuck you Salmond. No more support from this corner. Alba or Alavavaor whatever Its over for those idiots. Salmond is just as corrupt as all politicians.

By the way folks I’ve been banned of YouTube for my politics. That’s twice now. This is an Evil time were living through. All government agents need hanging.

Russels an arsehole. He is anti English hypocrite. He also hates that football fans prove there’s no substance to “pandemic” propaganda.

Andy Ellis”niche anti vax” views. You’re such a pudding. There’s a growing resentment among the public at forced vaccinations. It seems part of the trend toward Draconian lawmaking. Grouse eater has touched on the crime bills being slipped in under cover of covid. You are crushingly naive.

@Hatuey and Briandoonthetoon

I tend to agree with you both that we don’t necessarily need Alba to take a view on every political issue, particularly at this stage. No doubt they feel they have to, wither because they’ve been asked, or because they’re frightened of looking unprepared or clueless when asked if they have nothing to say….?

I think a lot of people underestimated the time it would take to “stand up” a new party and get all the ducks in a row: we’re getting there, but when all is said and done the real task of Alba isn’t to have a “rent a mouth” spokesperson pontificating on every issue that they can’t possible have any impact on (as the Liberals and LD’s have done fro decades), but to prepared the ground for fielding candidates at local and Holyrood elections.

Policies need to be developed showing how Alba is different not just from the SNP but from “everyone else”.

@Ian B 11.24 pm

Twitter is a relatively small political bubble. Alba twitter even more so I’d suggest. If this is an issue you feel so strongly about, then fair enough. Doubtless there are many (including myself) who could never stay inside a party, or indeed support them, if it espoused the views of a-scientific fringe zoomers like some of those infesting the BTL comments here or pedalling their snake oil elsewhere.

As for our cordial exchanges, it always to be regretted if folk come to a parting of the ways: such is life. I have acquaintances from all walks of life, with widely varying beliefs. I know folk who have partners or are fast friends with people who have diametrically opposing views on politics, social issues and religion and part of me admires that. I don’t think I can do that though, and I wouldn’t expect anyone else to.

Just as I could never in good conscience have stayed inside the SNP and campaigned shoulder to shoulder with some of those I saw abusing Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine and espousing views and policies I found intolerable, I could never stay inside Alba if it took positions on important policies I fundamentally disagreed with.

Perhaps Alba will lose some members like you over this issue: such is life. Ensure Alba changes its policy or go and form your own party with your similarly minded friends.

It seems the big, bawdy multi-coloured Yes movement of 2014 is no more. Nobody then much cared where people stood on contentious issues, whether NATO membership, multilateralism vs. unilateralism, the monarchy, EU membership, land ownership, the environment.

It was (supposedly…?) one of the joys of the new civic nationalism that it was a broad church, sheltering the gamut of Scottish society who wanted independence, whether they were Tories for Yes, Orangemen for Yes, Rangers Supporters for Yes, Anarchists for Yes or any other flavour. We kept being reminded that detailed policy could wait until after independence. We were Scots first, and whatever political tribe decidedly second.

Things have changed and not necessarily for the better. We fluffed our chance in 2014, and may not have a similar one again for some time. It certainly seems evident that if there is an #indyref2 campaign it won’t look much like that of 2012-14 for #indyref1 and maybe that’s no bad thing? I’ll take a more rambunctious, splintered, gloves-off campaign in a heartbeat if it leads to a Yes rather than No vote.

However, if as seems likely, we aren’t getting #indyref2 anytime soon, perhaps there is something to be said for marshalling our forces behind different pro-indy parties pushing for plebiscitary elections rather an a referendum that never comes?

I wish you well wherever you find a political home Ian, even if it isn’t in Alba.

Andy Ellis says

Orangemen for Yes,

Erm what? Can you direct me to anything that remotely backs this assertion up?

RepublicOfScotland

“saving Scots and EU citizens from the affects of [ Brexit ]”

Sorry Republic, it was wrong the first time you posted it, so simply re-posting it changes nothing, it is still wrong.

Sturgeon, the SNP, Hollyrood, the Scottish Government, the Scottish Civil Service, etc. etc. are there to serve the people of Scotland, not EU citizens.

John Main,
I completely agree and have written as much previously, yet in the eyes of Andy Ellis, you are an anti-vaxxer, an unthinking flat earther who should, er…unthinkingly accept a new vaccine with known and unknown risks.

It really is illogical to accept something with a risk that outweighs reward.
Of course, perception is everything but I would suggest those that understand the fears and hopes of both camps would be better positioned to make an informed choice.

@ John Main

The risks of long Covid don’t seem to be that negligible for the under 30’s though do they? The public are notoriously bad at judging scientific advice and statistical probabilities (MMR scare stories anyone…?), so it’d be a surprise if Covid was any different. FWIW – and it’s purely anecdotal I accept – none of the under 30’s I know in my family and/or their broader friendship groups appear to have any hesitation in getting vaccinated with the exception of one who is pregnant.

I accept that it’s difficult for any parent knowing what to do on behalf of under 18’s. It was much the same back in the day when my daughter was younger: there were regular scare stories about the dangers of MMR vaccines, people who insisted the combined vaccine was dangerous, caused autism etc., etc. In the end every parent has to make the decision whether to go ahead and do it, often in the knowledge that there may be a small % of adverse reactions for certain courses of treatment.

In the end, most of the people most of the time are going to be guided by mainstream science. A minority will always hold out (there are STILL people no doubt insisting that the discredited link between the MMR vaccine and autism is real).

Of course the medical establishment is not be infallible, but if the public are presented with a case by the medical establishment that advises vaccination is safe and it is useful and prudent for 18-30 year olds and for under 18’s to be vaccinated, it’s likely that the majority will comply.

I suppose what gets people exercised are any measures which are seen to require people to take actions they object to, whether it’s to prove their vaccinated status, or wear a face covering, or self isolate, or maintain social distancing. The extent to which society as a whole is comfortable enforcing particular actions will vary, but such choices aren’t novel, we just have to agree as a collective what is appropriate and proportionate given the circumstances.

@Breastplate 10.09 am

Unthinkingly? No. After due consideration like any normal human being would. The fact remains that the vast majority, based on the information presented to them, have and will accept vaccination. A minority will not.

You obviously feel personally that the potential risks of the vaccine outweigh any immediate benefits (or indeed that there are no benefits, or it’s all a plot by the Chinese / global capitalism / the illuminati / the lizard people…?). Fair enough.

I don’t advocate compulsory vaccination, because I feel it’s a step too far. Again. like the majority of the population however, I am and would be fairly sanguine about measures which some people might object to or feel infringe their civil liberties. Whether it’s insisting on people proving they are vaccinated before travelling, or working in a care home, or lower level restrictions about self-isolation, track and trace, wearing face coverings, social distancing, restrictions on numbers in social situations etc. are all balancing acts.

In the end, if the public won’t support them, then doubtless they will be dropped or ignored. It’s a balancing act, and all “ordinary” people can do is listen to the opposing arguments, examine the evidence and see what the outcomes have been. I doubt I’d feel happier if the government had followed the advice of the anti-vax advocates though, nor do I believe that the number of deaths or long Covid cases would be less than they are now.

Robert Graham, you’re still alive. Rejoice.

If it wasn’t for the “smart arses”, you’d probably be kicking up the daisies.

Now, go apply for your vaccine passport and leave the big words to people like me.

Everyone should watch the video I linked of a Holocaust survivor who is alert to the Fascism running the World. Hatuey need not bother.

Hatstand. Why don’t you come to my door with Gates injection and see where you end up.

The Problem In Alba.

When I look at the SNP since 2014, I am looking at the Labour Party,

When Alba started up, they left the SNP in quick droves to join. The infiltration of snp labour into Alba has had an early start,

Labour did not disappear in Scotland, it just changed its overcoat.

Sooner or later we are going to wake up and realise that all political parties in Scotland are deliberately knobbled from the inside to prevent any momentum in independence.
We are also seeing a large influx of English financed residential moves to Scotland this past year. And advertisements to holiday in Scotland by English based newspapers during
Covid.
The councils for a long period have been favouring work placements to English employees, you can hardly find a Scots voice in our local council except if they are Tory, labour or new labour(snp)
Without doubt there will need to be some changes in how we think on the right to vote in any of our elections, ( 10 years residency is a must).

We will also have to rethink do we use an Scottish infiltrated political party to try gain independence, ( which is hitting our heads against a brick wall) or do we do this ourselves.

If we repeat what we have always done in the past, rely on political parties , we can expect the same results.

I can see us waiting for change by using a plebiscite in the next election, which is what the politicians want, [Can Kicking ], has become a serious qualification for any aspiring Scottish politician since 2014.

As the Labour branch office in Scotland looks set to team up with the Lib/Dem branch office in Scotland to woo Scottish voters, it turns out that a majority of UK Labour members support Scotland having a second indyref.

Of course this info will be completely ignored by the Labour’s branch manager Anas Sarwar in Scotland, because Sarwar isn’t interested in democracy only power.

link to archive.is

From Rob Brown’s latest post its a real eye opener.

“In an address she delivered at Strathclyde University in 2012, Ms Sturgeon” said she had “never doubted that Scotland is a nation” but – and it was a big but…”

“The fact of nationhood or Scottish identity is not the motive force for independence. Nor do I believe that independence, however desirable, is essential for the preservation of our distinctive Scottish identity.”

link to jaggy.blog

Correction, 2017.

@James Che 10.56 am

Just sounds like more of the same nativism discussed earlier re-hashed.

If Alba ends up being captured by new-Labour types the way the SNP has been, then it will have failed. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating surely? Those of us who joined haven’t even had our membership cards and welcome pack yet.

One thing is for sure, those who are joining after leaving the SNP in disgust at the way it has been hollowed out by TRA extremists, new-Labour has beens and devolutionist troughers are not going to stand idly by and let Alba be fashioned in the same image. A good enough pointer for future direction is to look at what the SNP has done and do the opposite.

If you’re writing off all political parties – including it seems strangling Alba more or less at birth – how do you suggest independence is going to be achieved? Mass uprising? Revolution?

I’m all for not putting all our eggs in one basket and advocating plebiscitary elections. Since we aren’t getting a referendum soon, it might even work. The SNP is going to have to throw some red meat to the ordinary party members when they realise the promised #indyref2 just isn’t going to happen.

Changing the franchise for all elections is a non starter: none of the parties support it, so we can safely forget about that as an idea. It would be possible to make a case for a reasonable residence criteria for a specific independence referendum electoral register, but 5 years is a much more likely qualification period (for information, the average length of time required for naturalisation of new citizens in the EU is just under 7 years, but the range is from 3 years to 10 years with the largest number opting for 5 years).

If we can’t achieve >50% of the whole “demos” voting for independence in either a referendum or plebiscitary election it’s not worth having. Aiming for > 90% turnout and convincing both more “native born” Scots and “new Scots” should be the focus of our efforts, not deciding which parts of the demos to exclude because they’re not “really” Scottish.

‘Just means you’re less likely to get it,’

Robertknight – that’s not true, no scientist has ever professionally committed to that – but you believe it due to the sophistry at play and the way it’s heavily ‘implied’ by people, corporations and governments who’s agenda is to get you to believe that statement.

Any virus that you are vaccinated against you are just as likely ‘catch’ just as much as the next person; however, the crucial difference is that your immune response to the virus will be stronger- that’s it.
The statement should read something like ‘a person is less likely show symptoms’ – which is definitely not the same as ‘less likely to get it’ – it’s just all subtle clever word play that’s designed to sink deep into the human psyche and form an entrenched belief about how, in this case, a vaccine works.

Pixy, stop trying to personalise this. When the time comes you’ll queue and beg for the vaccine, and we won’t be bringing it to your door.

On Marr today they hinted at the bleak future the unvaccinated face…

On one hand the disease will be running freely through the unvaccinated population, hammering down on them with a force we haven’t so far seen in the UK (thanks to the mitigations you scoffed at).

On the other hand, the unvaccinated will be excluded from major aspects of social interaction and commerce. I’ll be surprised if they’re even allowed to order stuff online.

Being unvaccinated will be understood to mean diseased and nobody will want to be anywhere near them.

If there’s a silver lining here for the unvaccinated, it’s that limits on the number of people allowed to attend their funerals will be lifted. That’s it.

@Pixywine 11.26 am

I don’t need to read anti-vaxxer screeds provided by an abusive, anonymous on-line troll for much the same reason I don’t need to read apologias provided by those assuring me that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are real, or that the moon landings were fake, or that Donald Trump really won the Presidential election last November.

The plural of anecdote is not evidence. I wouldn’t use the new Queensferry Crossing if the vast majority of professional engineers and the government advised me it was in imminent danger of collapse. I wouldn’t have to, or feel the need to, exhaustively read and debunk all the information produced by the few per cent of refuseniks who assured me it was actually quite safe.

You and your ilk don’t have a case, just a grab bag of prejudices and misinformation. You’re the dyed in the wool sub Q-Anon Trumpists here; the rhetorical equivalent of Jake Agneli strutting around bare chested with a buffalo horn headress.

Andy Ellis.
I could have predicted your response, I actually should have included it in the piece I wrote to save time, along with hatueys SS style speech,
Wispy dreams of a perfect political party standing up for Scotland is just that, or a Scottish political party retaining its inferiority in sovereignty to the people of Scotland? Pipe dreams.

Hatuey I do not need your world of scare mongering and terrorist indoctrination.

Andy. The “broad church” you speak off is only evident in anti lockdown protests. There you will see people from all walks of life all political persuasions religions and genders. A truly eclectic cross section of society has united against Fascist dictat in a natural spontaneous way. And yet they are written off as right wing conspiracy theorists. People like me, Ian, J.o.e.Fred Robert Grahame have been proved consistently correct by the actions of Governments. Prepare for your winter lockdown. You Government agents have been proved wrong. I know trying to convince you is a waste of time but every time you make specious arguments or insult Governments detractors you’re probably bringing some of the readership on board with my thinking not the thinking the Government has programmed you with.
You have no outlets other than MSM and your echo chamber social media where everyone is perfectly on message. There are opinions posted on here by people I consider comrades in this fight that I don’t agree with but that’s incidental to the greater good which is stand up and resist this world wide Tyranny we are facing now. People who unite under Liberty are my comrades even though we’ll never meet we have a common goal. We cannot run so we have to stand and fight.

@Pixywine 11.30 am

I’m sure Alex will be devastated.*

*where devastated = vastly relieved not to have the support of a moon howling abusive troll.

Andy. Your conflating me with all your Government talking points. So I have to recite the I believe everything creed before I’m allowed to make a political argument.?. Of course the Moon Landings are real you fucking idiot. Stop trying to lay that shit on people who disagree with you. You’re dishonest when you argue like that. You never really address any of the issues raised by skeptics about government policies you just tell us we are crazy that we don’t believe in science that the moo is cheese and whatever other security service insults you can bandy while avoiding the Fascist jack boot wedged firmly up your arse. You’re an idiot who wastes to many waffly words to say nothing.

Pixywine says:
18 July, 2021 at 8:32 am
“Russels an arsehole. He is anti English hypocrite”.

Away and lie in your pish ya zoomer. Russell was born in Bromley, Kent to an English mother and a Scottish father.

Andy I don’t want to patronise you but I feel I must you see the PCR test as you know, is not a diagnostic test. It’s being used to deliver the “positive” results the Governments desire in order to flim flam everyone into believing in “cases” when they are not cases. You must know that’s a bogus spurious use of the technology. Dr Cary Mullis who received a Nobel Peace Prise for inventing the technology specifically categorically said the PCR test is NOT A DIAGNOSTIC TEST.
The PCR is the fulcrum of the Fascists power over us and its blatant bullshit.
Andy. You’re up to no good.

Hatstand. Everyone has to die sometime. I will die with a sword in my hand. Fuck you and fuck Sturgeon

Andy. “All ordinary people can do is listen to the opposing arguments”. It would be nice if the opposing arguments got anywhere near the same airtime the government gets on the news and besides you’re not interested in opposing arguments as your default setting kicks in with insults and scorn.
Another educated fool.

I found stats that shows the real U.K. Covid death rate to be in excess of 150,000.

Deaths from covid-19 in England and Wales dipped to their lowest in 20 weeks in the first week of August, latest figures from the Office of National Statistics (ONS) show. Of the deaths registered, 152 (1.7%) mentioned covid-19—down from 193 the previous week.

So where are we now that Bojo’s circus tell us it’s over?
The new cases and death rates are higher this week than
the week in August when we celebrated that the trend was dropping
to levels that encouraged defeat of the virus was near.

What brain cell outside of Westminster thinks the right not to wear masks, the ending of furlough
payments and permissions to return to mass gatherings everywhere will see the contamination’s
and death rates fall?

We are all supposed to forget the prolonged abject failure of the Tories to manage the Covid Crisis because the NHS have done so well in administering vaccinations?

Well why is it New Zealand’s example of closing their borders when obvious to do so was never headed?
Why has Israel vaccinated their nation quicker?
Why has Germany with a population 15 million greater vaccinated more citizens and who have
lower infection and death rates?
Why has the U.K. had more Covid deaths than any other European nation?

The success the Tories have had is in filling their own pockets and their donors.

They are crippling the NHS as planned by exponentially growing the shortage of
Doctors and Nurses with wage cuts and over work.

Soon there will be even more Heath contracts handed out to the private sector
and they will be sold on again with vast profits to the American Corporations who
don’t deal in morality or compassion.

First vital sign to establish is the limit on their credit card.

The future is blight, the future is English Tory!

Andy Ellis,
Actually I was posting leaflets for Alba and chatting with Alex Salmond, what have you been doing to forward independence in the last ten years.

Effigy

You make some good points in your usual OTT style.

But I do wonder. Why is none of your white-hot anger ever directed at those who gave Covid to the world?

Andy Ellis says: at 11:26 am

“Changing the franchise for all elections is a non starter: none of the parties support it, so we can safely forget about that as an idea. It would be possible to make a case for a reasonable residence criteria for a specific independence referendum electoral register, but 5 years is a much more likely qualification period (for information, the average length of time required for naturalisation of new citizens in the EU is just under 7 years, but the range is from 3 years to 10 years with the largest number opting for 5 years).”

Justified discussion on a duration of residence before being eligible to vote is what some have been trying to do, but most attempts have been shut down or ignored by folk attempting to blanket cover any discussion as blood and soil like or nativism. 😉

Who are you to say and what is your justification for stating 5 years is acceptable when you also state there is a range of 3 to 10 years for residency qualification.
Why should we just meekly take a low average of those figures when Scotland’s complex situation in terms of population growth disparity within the union, and flow of internal migration from our partner in this union has considerably impacted us over the course of the union.
That surely warrants consideration. Along with the fact that Westminster consistently utilities franchises that serve the interests of establishment power.

I asked on the last thread but got no response. Maybe the folk shutting down chat by constantly highlighting the negative of disenfranchising folk can tell me why someone should instantly be enfranchised to vote on the future of a country when they have:
Just arrived here.
Have paid little if any taxes or contribution in work to the betterment of our society
May only be here temporarily so long term commitment is undetermined.
Have the ability to return to their homeland should life here become shit.
Have no clue on the historical and structural political mire Scotland has and is enduring.
Barely understand or speak the language so little chance of getting up the curve on the complex issues a vote would involve.

If you want to win over previous soft No voters then these are just some of the aspects that concern them.
I’ve got pals that run businesses and they have to adhere to and pay for all sorts of tax, licensing, regulations, and insurances to operate.
This means their hourly rate has to cover those outgoings. They aren’t particularly chuffed to see folk just rock up and set up doing similar work out of a basic shed undercutting the legitimately run business because they ignore paying the costs and meeting the standards a properly run business has to.

@Ian B
Gold standard on liberty is/was US constitution, so maybe Alba forcing debate on whether faith based science falls within a breach of its first amendment is as good a place as any for them to defibrillate work on a contemporary Scottish one.

Well worth giving them the opportunity to do so.

Breeks says:
‘Can you not take COVID discussions to off topic or somewhere else? Anywhere else.’

I get your point Breeks, and i hold my hands up but it’s the political aspect of it that’s hard to escape from. Sturgeon, in particular, has become intoxicated with the authoratitive new style of leadership that other countries have adopted and has lost all sense of reality. Because of this we now live in a country that steadily continues to reduce the power and the agency of its people.
If we do get a referendum in the next year or two – and we win, then that is exactly what we’re signing up to.

Meanwhile in primary schools instead of teaching numeracy ,literacy and lifeskills the children are being taught about homophobia , transphobia and how to be drag queens.

I mention this as an antidote to the covid debate – of which I am personally exhausted – apart from sticking the vaccine /stuff in children especially girls who will go on to produce the next generations.

Thalidomide eventually had to pay out but the big pharma’s working on covid vaccine have been given special dispensation.

@James Che 12.41 pm

Good for you. Since yu’re a personal friend of Big Eck’s I’d expect you to know his mind…? There again…mebbe not.

You still haven’t answered the questions by the way. Waiting for sense or evidence from many on here is generally like waiting for Godot, I know….but surely you have some alternative path in mind when you assure us the party you’re out delivering leaflets for is just another party and none of it will lead to independence?

Otherwise people might just assume you’re bumping your gums.

As for what I’ve personally done for independence, perhaps it is less than all those hard working party activists and leafleters. I only cam back to Scotland in 2018 right enough, but I had (in my naivete) joined the SNP in 2015 to contribute financially to the cause.

I’m always a tad suspicious of those who cast doubt on others commitment to the cause on the basis that they themselves are “old campaigners”.

Lots of SNP old campaigners got us where we are today: how’s that working out?

THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND

‘The People of Scotland’
He roared from Arbroath
Forgave me for murder in the chapel
Then fought by me in erstwhile battles
Now they must forget the martyred one
Who could not deal with devious scum
He did not seem to understand
That realpolitik is where battles are won
But that option was never in his heart
Too loyal and misguided from the start
That era is now gone, and times have changed
All inner resistance has since been tamed
Now we must build on strengths we hold dear
And recognise the primacy of those we revere
To whom our country will long be indebted
For their sacrifices which are truly regretted
So, as a token of that which is owed
Rich rewards have been bestowed
On Dukes and Earls of royal descent
And seditious nobles who now repent
With one voice, the royal court has agreed
To terms and conditions as decreed
To our Holy Father Pope John in Avignon
We placed these in a scroll
As written from our imperial hearts and soul
We begged the Pontiff to endorse me as our de facto King
And to bless the declaration from our nation we bring
To command the English to cease invasion
On our God-fearing peaceful nation
And to rescind expulsions from the Roman flock
As these have been a major stumbling block
And as for God’s lowly creations
Those tasked with protecting our nobles and nation
Alas, the surviving peasants and vassals
Who drove the English from our lands and castles
And the sons and mothers of those who died
Must return to their reverent lives
But even as they mourn and cry
They will yet collect for His Grace’s wealth
E’er to grow and multiply

And while servants and serfs toil by hand
In this embryonic majestic land
They will continue to live in despair
As they bow before their sovereign and declare
That we are all brothers in this land of heather
And we are all in this together

‘The People of Scotland’
He beckoned from Rome
Know me, Charles Edward Louis John Casimir Sylvester Severino Maria Stuart
I am their rightful King’s son
And I am coming to my fathers’ home
The Act of Settlement must be repealed
So, steadfast Jacobites
Let us prepare for the battlefield
Do not be concerned
That I have not seen Scotland before
Just be ready and waiting when I come ashore
Now is a good time for us to strike
The British army will not muster all its might
Whilst they are enmeshed in wars of oppression
And the War of Austrian Succession
We will attack from the north
With men from the highlands and the valleys
While Louis XV will support from the south –
He has already manned his galleys
We have the backing of the Pope and Spain and France
So, Jacobite’s, let us rise and seize this chance
But before the French power could be unleashed
Their fleet sailed into a raging southeast
And as their ships are battered and scattered in the storm
The balance of power was about to transform
And although this news was rather alarming
It did not affect the delusions
Of this resolute Prince Charming
With six thousand men he thought he would be fine
And duly got to Derby in quite good time
But King George’s son was fully primed
And had a greater force assigned
His militias were assembled and ready within hours
Hardy veterans with abundant firepower
They tracked the Jacobite’s who were now in retreat
Marching relentlessly to the sound of the drumbeat

It was on 16 April 1746 that it came to pass
On Drumossie Moor the inevitable clash
And as apprehension filled the early morning air
Clansmen felt the weight of their Gaelic forebears
Amidst a sense of foreboding hard to dispel
That this was a day that may not end well
But as battle loomed, it was time to prepare
Then just a moment for a silent prayer
Before on to Culloden’s bloody killing field
Where the Jacobite’s destiny was permanently sealed
The Butcher Cumberland had callously vowed
That taking prisoners would not be allowed
And that on this day, come hell or high water
There would be a genocidal slaughter

From the Picts to the Clans
For five thousand years this history spanned
But now nothing could stop it turning into sand
As rituals and traditions were forever banned
But Charlie, my darling, you will not be betrayed
Just come with Flora and hide away
Soon you will be back home in Rome
Relaxing with your friends enjoying hors d’oeuvre
Then later a party in your luxurious chalet
While clans are strewn before wild winds of change
Telling heart-rending accounts
Of the merciless enemy rampage
And to suppress the Highlanders from that year
They built a stunning monument near Ardersier
A humiliating reminder from Fort George
That clan supremacy is forever purged

And while crofters and peasants are compelled
To roam these magnificent High-Lands
They will continue to live in despair
As they bow before their Hanoverian King and declare
That we are all brothers in this land of heather
And we are all in this together

‘The People of Scotland’
They shout from Holyrood and from Skye
Want honourable members
To listen and take heed
We do seek independence
But we will not plead
Our 300 years of marriage
Has gone on much too long
We still want to remain friends
But all the love has gone
We also want Brexit undone
It’s in the interests of everyone
We will re-join the Neo-Liberal brigade
Of the unelected and vastly overpaid
And then there will be no reason
For us at Westminster to be here
We will transfer power to EU
And do so without any fear
We know it is a priority
For Scotsmen everywhere
To join half a billion entities
In Deutsche Bankers care
The Bundestag will be in charge
They will run the show
Ably supported by their partners
From Paris and Bordeaux
After all, they have been doing great things
For forty years and more
Just look at how the wealth
Of the super-rich has soared

Oh Lord! Woe is me!
This way will never set us free
To take our hand
And dupe our mind
With an oxymoron
Of the cruellest kind
When after centuries in chains
The dragon is slain
To then capitulate
To a foreign domain
Without a fight
They may as well
Perform the last rite
And as the new kids on the block
Take us for a ride
As all sense of direction
Is lost or cast aside
Then our Raison d’être becomes blurred
And goes astray
With overplay
And excessive demands
And as night follows day
The dream will fade away
As they masquerade
With needless tirades
But don’t dream of change
It’s not in the plan
The blueprint’s been developing
Since before globalisation began
They’ve infiltrated all levels
With clandestine devils
Now there’s a plethora
Of hegemonies fixed in place
A masterpiece of planning
That you cannot retrace
And as they take away
Your freedom of speech
Don’t break the rules
Or they will impeach
You cannot criticise
Or say what you think
They’re listening and watching
Because there’s always a link
Echoes of ‘Brave New World’
And Big Brother ‘1984’
Huxley or Orwell
A reality you cannot ignore
And as they foolishly dismantle
Our acclaimed education
We see the attempted creation
Of a New-Age style
Indoctrinated nation
Obscurantism will be practiced
Like a sermon from John the Baptist
Dogmas will be recited
Repeated and retweeted
And when truth and propaganda
Are headed for collision
Truth is the one
Taking the road to Perdition
Yes, sadly, we are ruled
By marionettes who scorn the truth
Enrolled and indoctrinated
From the time of their youth
They who join political parties
As soon as they leave school
Some perfect candidates
To be the Lord of Misrule
And whose total worldly experience
Is gained from a mobile screen
As they gleefully parrot soundbites
Sent by a research team
And believe that loyalty is to close their eyes
To those who drink and party and assume
That position makes it acceptable
To covertly groom
While naïve members from the farm
Do not see risk or harm
Ensuring schoolkids get their share
Shrewdly introduced to the unaware
By Flow or Blow, it’s all in the name
An enriching Job, claim the insane
Well, damn this cesspit of political mire
From where no one can inspire
Yes, politics is a dirty game
That ignores Scotland’s shame
Of the abused and poor and sick and lame
And mentally ill, and those in care
And if you ask, it’s always the same
Like PFI, there’s no one to blame

Since time out of mind
Like Jekyll and Hyde
History has been one great divide
Whereby power and greed
Has forever conquered need
From medieval Normans
And landed gentry
To corporate giants and billionaires
And those with plenty
Like moguls and bankers
All high and mighty
And spurned are those
Left in their wake
While we watch the suffering
Of this inhumane heartache
Of hungry kids
And food bank users
And working-class losers
And souls on the street
Who can never hope to deplete
The absurd riches of the elite

And while the unworthy share the air
Of this glorious abundant land
They will continue to live in despair
As they bow before phoneys and hypocrites who declare
That we are all brothers in this land of heather
And we are all in this together

Im sorry you don’t get how important this is Breeks. Im surprised also.

The missing ringfenced indyfunds complaints jumps from the original seven to a whopping nineteen now, and Police Scotland must investigate the new complaints.

Of course the original complaint was made by Sean Clerkin, if only more of us we’re like him, more pro-active and militant on the indyfront, we wouldn’t be in this mess to start with.

link to msn.com

Ebok, succinctly put. I agree with every word. We should use it on bumper stickers.

Human correction now overriding auto correction, Mr Bews.

@ James Che 5.08 pm

My questions at 11.26 am upthread. Do at least try to keep up.

Quote:

“If you’re writing off all political parties – including it seems strangling Alba more or less at birth – how do you suggest independence is going to be achieved? Mass uprising? Revolution?”

We’re (still) all ears.

@Fireproofjim 5.37 pm

People interact with what is before them. The indyref franchise and Covid vaccination seem to be the only issues getting any traction in here at present. Doubtless there are other things we could and should be discussing until Rev Stu decides just to shut the place down.

I mean, it’s not as if there’s going to be much else for us to do over the next few years but talk about *stuff*, given there’s SFA chance of #indyref2 happening.

Of course you could be pro active and start off a scintillating new topic for discussion, argument (and doubtless heaps of abuse).

Or you could just sit on the sidelines and throw rocks because you have nothing meaningful to add.

….It’s time to widen the case for independence. A forum surrounded by snipers is probably not the best place to develop a long term plan (is there anywhere better?) but here are some starting points.

Good read there Ron, but what niggles me is that Sovereignty is a legal status. Your Constitution isn’t a coat you pull off and on like a raincoat in bad weather, and neither is a nation’s sovereignty.

If Scotland is lawfully Sovereign by virtue of it’s Constitution, then somehow becoming “non-sovereign” requires some similarly lawful initiative to change the status of that Constitutional status. It doesn’t matter what the prevailing perception might be. Political opinion and convention is imprecise and ephemeral, but a Legal definition is constant and exact until it undone or changed.

It doesn’t matter what improvised, unwritten conventions might say. When push comes to shove and the Constitutional Arguments go under forensic examination at a UN Court, the ONLY Constitutional status with legal foundation is that the Scottish People are sovereign. They were properly recognised as sovereign, and since no article of law can demonstrate, or even claim, that sovereignty was removed from the people, then NOTHING has been changed and the people remain sovereign.

Statute does not decay over time. Even if it’s archaic and almost forgotten, it remains statute, and endures until it is repealed or explicitly superseded. The Treaty of Union doesn’t remove the sovereignty of the people, and to the best of my knowledge, there isn’t ANY lawful device or document which does.

It is my firm belief that a forensic audit of Scotland’s Constitutional Status, prompted by a Constitutional dispute, (as should have happened when Scotland was subjugated to accept Brexit), will prove that Auld Scots Law and Sovereign Constitution has NOT been overwritten or superseded, and the fictions which assert otherwise, principally the Treaty of Union, and the myriad of unwritten conventions improvised by expediency, will fall apart and disintegrate when their basis in Law is actually tested.

Let Westminster assert that Scotland is NOT Sovereign. Let them dare, so they can be challenged to produce the mechanism which removed the popular sovereignty from the people, the curious process by which it was allegedly done, and when it was accorded proper International Recognition.

Scotland is perhaps unique in the world as an Auld World Nation which has it’s Constitutional Birth Certificate in the Declaration of Arbroath, recognised and ratified both by the Pope in 1328 and the Dowager Queen Isabella in the 1328 Treaty of Edinburgh/ Northampton.

We KNOW the source of Scotland’s lawfully recognised sovereignty. The “mystery” which beggars and impoverishes Scotland and which we must test to destruction is the fallacy and sophistry which asserts Scotland’s sovereignty was “somehow” extinguished yet cannot elaborate on how it was done.

Scotland’s sovereignty comes with certificates of authenticity, written proofs, identifiable process and protocol, dates and heritage, and centuries of uncontested provenance.

By contrast, the Treaty of Union was mired from the beginning in fraud, corruption, bribery and inducement and treachery of politicians who hadn’t the status to surrender Scotland’s freedom and were forced to hide and flee for their lives.

It doesn’t matter what the established convention might say. It doesn’t even matter what a democratic mandate might assert. Scotland’s status and legitimacy is defined and protected by law, and the fallacy of a Union which should never have existed in the first place has gone on long enough.

Breeks well said,

RepublicofScotland.

You have adequately describe the position we are in, there is not a politician around taken a straight path to Scottish independence since 2014, even then that was the wrong way to go,
Referendums,
Sovereign Scots asking England’s Westminster permission to be sovereign is a twist of logic.

@ Breeks 7.03 pm

The international community doesn’t care about the Declaration of Arbroath, the Treaties of Union or any of the Claims of Right. Every self regarding people is sovereign when it asserts its right to be so.

The UN and international community generally are fairly agnostic about what happened in the dim and distant past. It doesn’t really matter to the UN, EU and any other international body that Scotland had a thousand year history which its rulers voluntarily gave up to gain unequal access to the English imperial project and the sinecures of office available in a much larger and more successful nascent world empire.

No deus ex machina is riding over the horizon to declare the union defunct or illegal or of no legal standing. If we want independence we have to take it, and requires a clear expression of the desire to do so from a majority of the population. If we wait for others to do the heavy lifting for us, we’ll be waiting a long time. The international community didn’t save the Catalans, and it won’t support us either.

There will be no independence without a mandate, but the mandate might come in a number of forms. Scotland is not in the same situation as other recent successful independence movements: its not like the republics which gained independence following the break up the USSR or Yugoslavia, it’s not like Timor L’Este or New Caledonia, or South Sudan. It’s a bit like the Czechoslavak divorce, and a has similarities (as well as differences) with the independence movements in Catalonia and Quebec.

The international community doesn’t care if countries seeking independence had never had any previous history as independent states, or only had them for brief times before having their independence extinguished, or whether they are seeking to form some new entity. Spain can protest all it likes that it is indivisible and that secession is not allowed, but in the end if any of the constituent communities in Spain are prepared to go far enough, the international community is likely to grant recognition in the right circumstances.

Similarly, the USA can assert all it likes that individual states don’t have the right to secede, but what matters is facts on the ground. Some entities fail to achieve recognition(Northern Cyprus, Transnistria, Somaliland, South Ossetia…), others take a while to ultimately gain recognition (Timor L’Este, Kosovo, “Northern” Macedonia), while others could probably do it in a relatively straightforward way if they demonstrated an unequivocal desire, mandate and majority to do so (Scotland and Quebec….Catalonia if the Spaniard were leant on hard enough…).

Nobody is going to pull our chestnuts from the fire, we have to hve the courage to reach in to the flames and do it ourselves.

Oh the meta fours the meta furs, whits a meta fur, cats fur, ever seen it on a dug

Andy Ellis @ 7:38pm

Hello, I don’t always agree with Andy, e.g. on an Independence franchise, but this time I believe he’s 100% correct for all the reasons he rationally lists.

There’s nothing more to say except: a majority of Scottish Independence MPs at Westminster prepared to withdraw, a majority of declared Independence MSPs at Holyrood – both backed up by majority of Scots residents voting Yes in an Independence referendum.

What could be simpler? Apart from getting Parliamentarians elected on that basis!

That night march by the way was 24 miles, with 3 set battles afterwards. Biggar to Roslin.

Run a Marathon eh? Try running a “Roslin”… in the dark in full battle dress.

@ Bill Walker 8.40 pm

In principle there is nothing to stop us dispensing with a referendum altogether though, is there? If the British nationalists refuse to consent to a S30 order for #indyref2 (and/or the Scottish government has refused or failed to put the matter of whether a non S30 sanctioned vote is “legal” beyond legal doubt) then there is no reason the Yes movement should not simply declare every subsequent general election for Westminster or Holyrood plebiscitary.

It’s pretty certain members can ensure Alba endorses this strategy. Whether the SNP can be prevailed upon to do so has to be open to considerable doubt.

The referendum franchise argument becomes redundant if we use plebiscitary elections instead.

Ellis, the mystifier, strikes again.

Now he speaks for the “international community” – whatever that is.

No one gives a fuck about the “international community” or rather what matters is

what America says (- and behind it, what Israel wants)

the EU are a bunch of shit the beds who piss themselves when the Americans phone; the whole thing was only setup because of American laziness – they wanted a one stop shop to “do business”; or a single point of contact to issue orders.

Leverage american connections is what the SNP should have been doing since way back, but … Trump is a bad man, etc.

Nothing that any african or south american says, thinks or does, matters a tuppeny fuck – the chinese are important, but they won’t interfere in the american sphere.

Getting american support for a declaration at the UN is all you need to become independent, but you have to play the adults games, of realpolitik.

What annoys me is how people are resistant to leverage just how much “England” is loathed around the world; everyone hates them, china, russia, the EU, america and israel treat them with contempt, some residual bad blood from 1776 and 1947; then the ex colonies – none of them wants back in.

Getting our indy backed by the entire world should be easy, yet no one is interested in this.

@Confused 9.24 pm

Aptly named. You can’t educate pork.

Get back to us when you’ve done some basic reading on politics, international relations and how the international system works. Google is your friend if you lack the wit to dig a bit deeper.

It’s not a sin to be confused of course, it IS a sin to be proud of it.

Ellis seems to be an expert on something or other in his own mind; and yet he just “cockblocks” with no practical suggestions as to what should be done.

– oh we can’t change the franchise because … orban … nazis … nativism
– oh our ancient laws don’t matter … because
– oh you can’t do this because …

are you really a nationalist? It seems something so caveated, conditional and fragile, intricate in its construction, that if you do not get it “just so” – you don’t want it.

I just want to get over the line, in any state, then we begin.

It bothers me you have joined Alba because you seem to be a classic shit-stirrer.

@Confused 9.33 pm

It bothers me when snivelling cowards on line hiding behind anonymous profiles cast aspersions about whether folk they agree with are pure enough to be accepted as real nationalists.

If you want independence at any cost you’re dangerous.

You can change the franchise, but doing so is not risk free. Nobody said it can’t be discussed, certainly not me and not Rev Stu wither.

Our ancient laws, whilst interesting and colourful, aren’t what will deliver independence. Nobody outside Scotland cares. being butt hurt about that simple fact achieves nothing.

I’m not looking for purity, just something that works. I’m not going to campaign wholeheartedly for something if it includes policies in fundamental areas I disagree with, but there are others I’d be willing to compromise on. By all means let’s be open minded but not so open minded our brains fall out.

If you’re prepared to endorse independence at any cost, ditch any principle, accept any platform on the assumption that we can sort out everything after the event, you’re stupider than your peurile post suggests.

@Dan 9.30 pm

“Where’s the bloody rozzers when you need them to protect my rights to grow veg without getting it snaffled by some itinerant lowlife tick carrying mammal…”

I think they’re busy investigating the FMs other half….?

@ Confused 10.06 pm

If you don’t want to be educated, don’t read. My PhD is in International Relations, so yeah…I rely on Wikipedia a lot…

Of course blood and soil was discussed, even if not all of those advocating franchise change wanted to disenranchise ALL non-Scots born residents, some very publicly did and do. It’s the very definition of blood and soil. You’re either being dishonest or just not paying attention, but somehow anyone calling you out for it is a shallow pedant…? Uh huh….

Nobody argues that foundation texts aren’t significant. The point is they will have zero impact on independence in the 2020’s. If the declaration had never existed and we’d been conquered by England in 1314, it wouldn’t make a jot of difference to what might happen when we argue our case in front of the international community now.

Yeah, yeah…you’re anonymous because you’re so brave. No…wait…the other thing.

I don’t have a checklist, but most rational people would have some red lines. Dismissing class issues (which none of the recent discussions have even mentioned) or “tranny nonsense” makes it sound like you’re one of those people with no principles: a cultist who will do anything because the ends justify the means.

If you don’t detect a pragmatist you patently have comprehension difficulties. I’ve only read a few of your posts (thankfully). I don’t detect someone capable of rational argument.

Eh think wur goin’ a’ roon’ the hooses here – and have been for the past week.

For an independence referendum or a plebiscitary election, I feel it is reasonable to impose a 5 year residency qualification on potential voters. That covers the 4 year period of a (non-medical) Scottish degree, where students disappear back to from where they came, once they have their scroll.

I can’t imagine there would be too many international “sharp intakes of breath’ if that was the case.

Perchance, this will be discussed at Alba’s conference…