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Wings Over Scotland


From the archives #13

Posted on June 14, 2020 by

We’ve noticed a fair few Unionists this week proudly claiming that an independent Scotland would have been too broke to survive the coronavirus pandemic. They might not listen to our many and comprehensive rebuttals, but maybe they’d heed the words of Tony Blair, from way back in October 1987:

The sliding doors of history, there, readers. When Unionists tell you Scotland is feeble, remember who made it that way, and never forget how it could have been.

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    656 to “From the archives #13”

    1. Bob Mack says:

      @Breastplate,

      No, I think I made it clear that it was up to you if you wanted to go further than the advice in situ.

      As father to a medical and government family I am aware of the high risks involved to those who didn’t get the chance to self isolate and who are permanently terrified of infecting their own children whilst trying to save lives.

      According to every medic I know, this is far from finished, but what do they know?

    2. Joe says:

      You dont need to be a scientist to look at the global infection numbers and notice something off. Its not science its common sense. Of course it all depends on the eye of the beholder – if you cant handle what those numbers could mean then you are going to shield yourself from considering possibilites you dont have the character to handle – so you beg for an official to pat your head and tell you what to think

    3. Joe says:

      It wont matter if countries like Japan or any others didnt lock down and are barely affected compared with ours that did. ‘Never waste a crisis’ is an old political phrase. Do we really believe that Covid-19 situation has not been considered from that exact perspective? What if the collapse of small businesses, loss of jobs, loss of certain freedoms was a goal of certain people?

    4. Joe says:

      The faux certainty of some characters on here in complete defiance to the results published by the CDC showing a 0.3% fatality rate for symptomatic individuals coupled with the disparities between various nations and policies versus the infection numbers is nothing short of deception.

    5. Bob Mack says:

      @Joe,

      Forgive me but that is a rather childish post. I never have needed someone to guide my life choices for me. I require no pat on the head from anyone though I did on one occasion receive a baton on the head and 3 staples after being mistaken for a protestor in London.

      I accepted my lot, and an apology at a later date.

      These things happen.

    6. Breastplate says:

      Bob,
      Logic dictates that if you are self isolating, the whole world can go to work can have naked wrestling matches with each other and you will not contract the virus no matter how many family you have in the medical profession or in government or how many expert tell you how dangerous the virus is.
      Was this obvious also?

    7. Joe says:

      I do not deny that there is a virus. I dont deny that its somewhat dangerous. But I can literally throw anyone of the financial or political class further than id trust any of them for anything – especially a virus for which we are repeatedly told ‘changes everything’ and for which we are turned into compliant cattle. Fuck that.

    8. Bob Mack says:

      @Joe,

      You write with the arrogance and certainty of one who has not been in the 0.3% as yet.

    9. Joe says:

      That 0.3%, the oldest and most sick, deserve all the protection and care we can give. The rest of us can keep the country functioning. A collapsed economy wont help those 0.3% either. What about we thonk of all the other people going without treatment, suicides, mental health etc? Nope, the covid narrative is king.

    10. Bob Mack says:

      @Breastplate,

      Yes ,you can arm wrestle with anybody outside and never know they were infected or not. Sadly when you work in an ITU unit you know that most of the people you are dealing with have the infection , and you could possibly be carrying it home.

      That is reality.

      Should Dr’s and nurses refuse to work? Ambulances refuse to pick up infected people? Police to attend houses where someone calls ill?

      No. They cannot shield the way the rest of us can. Yet, I have heard not one organisation or their professional body who have dealt with this illness calling for an end to lockdown, because they dealt with it first hand and have seen the effects.

      Experience is a great teacher.

    11. Bob Mack says:

      @Joe,

      What about keeping alive? Regrettably suicides will happen. Schizophrenia,depression and various mental conditions will happen as a result of life events or life choices regardless.

      Lockdown does not cause all of these events as you suggest. It contributes perhaps in some cases.

    12. Breastplate says:

      Bob,
      Don’t answer the questions and change the subject if you wish but if there is something I have said that is inaccurate, please point it out.

    13. Gary45% says:

      Joe,
      Nobody is holding a gun to your head,if you want to ignore the advice, it’s up to you, personally I’d rather you stayed safe, even thought we “bat in opposite directions”.
      Yes common sense does come into the equation, but just take a good look at so called common sense that is being conducted in the country at the moment.
      If everyone and I mean everyone had common sense, the country/world would get over this quicker, unfortunately that is not the case.
      Personally I see more and more people daily taking up the full width of pavements canal paths etc, normally 3 abreast with no regard for anyone but themselves.
      If people had common sense, we wouldn’t speed limits, the highway code and instructions not to overtake on blind corners.
      Manufacturers wouldn’t have to put instructions not to put your hand on a red hot iron, or stick a moving drill up your nose, and finally there would be no need for the
      H S E.
      I hope this helps. Stay safe the evidence is there.

    14. Bob Mack says:

      @Breastplate,

      You play with semantics.

    15. Breastplate says:

      Bob,
      I was being straight forward and you were and are being evasive by not answering simple questions.

    16. `Sweden has the largest number of cases and fatalities in Scandinavia—around 37?000 confirmed cases at the time of writing, compared with its neighbours Denmark, Norway, and Finland which have 12?000, 8000, and 7000 cases, respectively.

      All three neighbouring countries adopted a lockdown approach early in the pandemic, which they are now slowly lifting. All three have since re-opened their borders, but not to Sweden.

      Sweden recorded the most coronavirus deaths per capita in Europe in a seven day average between 25 May and 2 June,

      the country’s mortality rate was 5.29 deaths per million inhabitants a day (the UK ranked second with 4.48) according to Our World In Data.

      “One should have known what poor preparedness we had in both healthcare and care of older people,” said Linde.

      “A lockdown could have given us a chance to prepare, think things through, and minimise the spread of infection.”

    17. Joe says:

      Its quite interesting the people who say:

      ‘Its your choice Joe. You can take the risks you want’

      But I cannot because under the hard lockdown rules we experienced not long ago I am legally limited as to my activities that includes threat of prosecution. I strongly suspect it will be much firmer when the 2nd wave comes over the airwaves at us.

      Further, it is not just about me. It is about the hard work of ordinary people being pissed away while the economy sinks for a virus that kills only the most sickly person out of every 300 people.

      There was a subject about ‘what is woke’ earlier and I have a relevant quote for it that I think the Covid-19 situation also warrants somewhat:

      “Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
      ? Theodore Dalrymple

      I am not bowing to a narrative that the clear and plain statistics do not reinforce.

    18. Bob Mack says:

      @Breastplate,

      I answered your question. You are an adult and can decide for yourself whether to accept the lockdown or not. What else is there to say?

    19. Bob Mack says:

      @Joe,

      It is law, but not get enforced. You can choose. You do so in the knowledge that if you do get nabbed you can tell the judge its all a mistake and you can then present your evidence to refute what the experts say.

      I’m sure your anger at the establishment would allow you to take them on.

    20. callmedave says:

      Goodness me what an unfortunate coincidence. 🙂

      Scotland’s media failing to disclose background biases

      https://archive.is/CHaCx

    21. Joe says:

      @Bob Mack

      Empty appeals to ‘experts’ (but only the ones that don’t contradict the official narrative) and an unthinking, natural appeal to authority as if it is an incorruptible force of nature is the very essence of the kind of unthinking shell of a human who has quietly stood by and tacitly enforced every tyrant in history.

      I just hope the money is worth it.

    22. Bob Mack says:

      @Joe,

      I think your looking for the Communist Party. They wil! however change their manifesto on taking power.

      Alternately you just hate everyone.

    23. Bob Mack says:

      Every tyrant in history was usually seen as a saviour by the population who you say idly stood by.

      They hoped for better,but got the usual.

    24. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Anyone unsure as to what they will be doing with their second (regional) vote at the forthcoming Holyrood election, should check this out.

      https://tinyurl.com/ybypjmqo

    25. Republicofscotland says:

      Callmedave@ 7.56pm.

      I’m totally unsurprised by this, Radio Scotland of which I never listen to, but did in the past to pick out their lies and deception which made my blood boil, is a 100% British propaganda outlet. Adams and the station should never be taken seriously on anything.

      Other loyal British propaganda radio stations, posing as Scottish include Clyde One and it’s sister station Clyde Two.

    26. Breeks says:


      Breastplate says:
      17 June, 2020 at 5:41 pm
      Breeks,
      If people with red hair were immune from this coronavirus, should they be in lockdown in empathy with others? It’s a serious question.

      Serious answer, yes. 100%. They might be immune, but the virus might be in their breath droplets transmitting the virus to others while showing no symptoms whatsoever. It’s because you’re trying to keep the invisible virus contained and the contagion stopped from transmission that you need a full spectrum lockdown. Nobody should get a free pass, and care workers who need to move from zone to zone should be decontaminated before entering a new zone.

      The mere possibility for a royal prince being free to travel the length of the UK with a known infection is beyond ridiculous. How can you even call that a lockdown?

      Just look at the lockdown around the Skripal poisoning… although don’t actually, because that was a total farce of a lockdown too. Guys in Hazmat suits with a PC without as much as a face mask looking on over their shoulder. That was all for the cameras.

      I suppose it depends on your definition. But to me, there should be precious little difference between lockdown and quarantine other than perhaps quarantine where known contact has been detected.

      @Liz.
      Yes I know a virus isn’t what an antibiotic kills, but there’s no known cure for the virus already, but if people weakened by the virus will be more susceptible to Secondary infections, and will also huddled together in potentially overcrowded hospitals with overstretched staff, you’re potentially creating a cauldron for biological infections to flourish too, and develop resistance at an accelerated rate.
      I know, that’s doomsday speculation, but there is potential for it to happen.

      Yes, I read the prevalence of young victims of Spanish Flu might have stemmed from war wounded have compromised immune systems, but that’s the whole point. It’s a catch 22. A mutation in a virus will thrive when the mutation has an advantage over not mutated virus. Different host conditions will propagate different mutations according to how the conditions favour the mutation. Spanish Flu adapted to young hosts because the young hosts were there and susceptible.

      Maybe I’m being paranoid after 70’s movies like the Cassandra Crossing and the Andromeda Strain… lol. I’m sure Quincey had to track down a plague carrier too once or twice… lol.

    27. Capella says:

      Mortality rate of Covid-19 – current estimate is 2% i.e. 20 times more than seasonal flu. It’s not possible to be precise in the middle of a pandemic. The Chinese estimate was 3 – 4%.

    28. jfngw says:

      I see Boris Johnson’s delusions of grandeur are finally coming to the fore, he has commissioned his own private Royal Airforce One for his presidential travels around the globe. I wonder if he will spot the other world leaders sniggering behind his back at the delusion of being a world power.

    29. meg merrilees says:

      Republic of Scotland
      re Radio Scotland bias

      There was an interview this morning with the MP who has taken over from Douglas Ross as a minister in the Scotland Office.
      Turns out he is the mP for Milton Keynes.

      BBC Scot interviewer asked him if he thought it was right that an MP of an English constituency should be involved in making the plans/rules etc that affect the people of Scotland…
      The reply was that said MP had been born and brought up in Scotland and was perfectly able to make the proper judgement on what was needed in Scotland, so he had no problem with that issue.

      BBC interviewer then missed a massive open goal i.e. what about your Government’s insistence on English Votes for English Laws – they clearly don’t think it is ok for Scottish people to make judgement or rules on matters affecting English people….. I waited and waited and waited BUT the obvious question never came. Very poor.

      It’s just a pretendy channel and not serious journalism, especially nOT anything that criticises the precioussssss Onion.

      Poor Scotland let down on so many occasions by the bBC.

    30. David says:

      Stoker 7.07pm

      Can you give us a bit more info about your post please

      Who is Martin Keating?

      Is this something we should be getting excited about?

      I think we are all looking for any kind of good news regarding indyRef2

      Thanks Stoker

    31. David says:

      Republic of Scotland 8.33

      Re, Radio Clyde 1 & 2

      Very similar to STV News

      Pro Unionist

      I find they seem to run with a lot of what Scottish Labour have put out.

      I do what others have started doing,,,switch stations when News bulletin starts,, leave it a few minutes then turn it back when News bulletin finishes.

      The things we have to do to enjoy a bit of music.

      I found if I listened to their bias bulletins then it angered me so much I couldn’t enjoy the music.

    32. Robert graham says:

      O/T and I posted this last night and it died a death , sank without trace anyway 2nd attempt

      It looks like the next and possibly future National Conferences by the SNP are going to be restricted to virtual online affairs ,
      ok I guess that would keep Alex out and make sure his supporters don’t interrupt proceedings but still naughty naughty,
      I was sent a survey from HQ Peter Murrell and I guess all members received the same one , asking for opinions as to the time , day etc pretty standard stuff ,
      Now the last question ” is there any way we can assist you during your attendance in this conference ”
      Answer — Invite ALEX —
      eh maybe fkd up my chances of a invite what do you think ha ha .

    33. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi David at 9:37 pm

      You asked,

      Who is Martin Keating?

      For someone to admit to a lack of knowledge about Martin Keating, whilst posting comments on a web site supporting Scottish independence, displays an apparent ignorance of what has been going on in the YES movement, over the past 4 or 5 years.

      Where have you been? Catterick, training with the 77th?

      https://www.independentscotland.org/events/14337/forward-as-one.htm

    34. David says:

      Brian doon the toon

      FFS

      Not another one

      I thought CamB was more your 77th Brigade.

      Don’t remember you calling him out

      Wanker

      I politely asked for more info on a certain individual and you jump right in there

      Is it your shift for being the Wings gatekeeper?

      What a fuckin wanker

      Fuck right off and don’t annoy me again

      You meet some right stuck up bastards on this site.

      Are you another one of these SNP stalwarts.

      That label of Tartan Tories isn’t too far off the mark

      And getting back to the original post,,,,it was Stoker I was asking,,,it had fuck all to do with you.

      Ya stuck up bastard.

      Maybe you are in this 77th and trying to mix it

    35. call me dave says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      I remember that cos I was there with my partner’s granddaughter.
      We were late for the assembly & joined at the back.
      She’s a strong independence minded soul able to vote at next elections. Wahoo! 🙂

      Good day.

      Hope you don’t mind that I have archived it. 🙂

      https://archive.is/kvFVc

    36. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi David.

      It’s nice to see you responding so positively – positively showing your ignorance of the YES movement generally.

      I think readers will suss you out from your considered responses to my answers to you. You don’t know how to debate/argue your corner, do you?

      Do you think statements like,

      “Wanker”

      “What a fuckin wanker
      Fuck right off and don’t annoy me again”

      “You meet some right stuck up bastards on this site.”

      “Ya stuck up bastard.”

      reinforces your assertion as a Yesser???

      I would suggest you go into a dark corner and self-procreate.

    37. David says:

      Brian doon toon

      Still can’t believe you pulled me up for not knowing who this guy Keating was

      Are you saying the credentials for being Pro Indy are being able to identify This guy Keating?

      And that if your knowledge on Mr Keating is pish, then you should be denied access to the Wings website.

      I have been on many Rallies/marches but did not go into the details of who organised them

      So according to you I am as British spy, sent to the Wings website to infiltrate their core supporters

      As I said in previous post, you meet some right stuck up bastards on this website

      You included.

      Stay off the cheap wine sunshine

    38. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Oh, and one more link to educate pre-pubescent David about Martin Keating…

      http://archive.is/C7kQX

    39. Robert graham says:

      Stop press
      Anyone know what’s happening in George Sq Tonight ? Seems to be a bit of activity on Facebook particularly on Nicolas page.

    40. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      David, you come over as a petulant child in a man’s/woman’s, transman’s/transwoman’s body.

      Grow up!

    41. Ruglonian says:

      David is a prick, pass it on!

    42. David says:

      Brian from Doon toon has set the gold standard for being a true Indy supporter.

      Every true Indy supporter will know Martin Keating

      If you don’t know who Martin Keating is then you are obviously a British Spy

      And will be reported to Rev Stu for being such and will be blocked from using Wings website.

      Doon toon,,,,what do you do with people visiting Wings who are of a No persuasion and want to be converted to Yes,,,what if they have never heard of this guy Keating,,,will you label them a British spy and ask Rev Stu to block them???

      As I said before,,, you are a stuck up snobby bastard

      An old Tartan Tory

    43. David says:

      Ruglonian

      Are you for the team handed bully boy/girl approach

      This had fuck all to do with you

      Fanny

    44. David says:

      Ruglonian

      Are you a man or a woman???

    45. Arthur C says:

      I see CBBs sockie is pissing in the sandbox on BDTT.

    46. David says:

      The all welcoming Tartan Tory approach

      Stuck up bastards

    47. David says:

      Arthur c now

      Fuckin hell

    48. David says:

      Next!!!

    49. Arthur C says:

      And now Ruglonian gets her sandcastle kicked over.

    50. The General says:

      I have noticed this on Wings

      It’s a bit of a closed shop,

      Beware of drunks coming out to play.

      I hate bullies

      And there is obvious ganging up going on here.

      Back off guys

      Ten against one is not nice.

      Back to our fight for Independence

    51. Sensibledave says:

      Meg merciless

      … forgive me for correcting, once again, the oft mentioned notion that Scottish MPs don’t get a say on EVEL matters. For the umpteenth time, so even the dummest reader can understand, EVEL LAWS CAN ONLY BE PASSED BASED UPON VOTES IN PARLIAMENT BEING CARRIED BY THE FULL HOUSE…. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER LAW. … UNLIKE MANY LAWS RELEVANT TO SCOTLAND WHICH ARE MADE BY THE DEVOLVED PARLIAMENT IN HOLYROOD.

    52. Bob Mack says:

      Orange Order under banner of Scottish Defence League causing trouble in George As against a March for refugees. The ECO claiming they were protecting statues which the refugee marchers had no interest in at all.

      Good excuse for a Thugfest though.

    53. Bob Mack says:

      @The General,

      Why should Wings contributors have to put up with The shit spouted by David?

      He can argue his corner like everybody else without reverting to low life insults. Or can he?

    54. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      David, as far as your utterances tonight go, I think this is the verdict…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHVuPhOUDH4

    55. Arthur C says:

      Lets go to Yoonville, where it’s Penalties. The General is on the field, they think its all over, but David scaffs it wide and it’s another failure at the semi-final.

    56. The General says:

      Brian Doon toon

      Fuck off and don’t annoy me

      You are a stuck up old Tartan Tory bastard

    57. The General says:

      Brian Doon toon

      I was trying to calm things down and you continue to bully other posters

    58. Capella says:

      @ BDTT – Perhaps if he wasn’t so obnoxious he would be tolerable. I guessed fifteen and three quarters but I’m revising that down to fifteen. Too young for recruitment IMO.

    59. Bob Mack says:

      Tartan Tory baiting now enters the field. Remember that folks.

      That’s what Labour used to use. Do We have a couple of Labour supporting wolves wearing sheeps clothing?

      Over to you Brian

    60. cirsium says:

      O/T the June update on the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic from the Swiss Propaganda Research makes for sobering reading https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/#latest . Like Wings, all statements are linked so that readers can follow up for themselves. There is a lot of information – some examples
      -on Children and Schools
      Numerous studies have now shown that children hardly get Covid19 and do not or hardly transmit the virus, which was already known from the 2003 SARS outbreak. There was therefore no medical reason for the closure of schools at any time. Accordingly, all those countries that reopened their schools in May saw no increase in cases of infection. Countries like Sweden, which never closed their primary schools anyway, had no problems with this either.
      -on the role of the MSM
      “Most traditional media, almost all of which are part of elite geopolitical networks, decided to run a campaign of fear during the coronavirus period, a behavior that is usually observed in connection with wars of aggression or alleged terrorist attacks.
      The risk to the general population was greatly exaggerated, official policies were hardly questioned, the situation in hospitals was dramatized, manipulative images were used, campaigns were staged, and protesters were systematically defamed as “idiots”..

      It seems to me that this war of aggression was directed at the citizens.

    61. ronnie anderson says:

      Ok Ruglonian / David is ah Thick Prick ah’ll pass it oan

    62. The General says:

      Wings new anthem:

      Hello, hello

      We are the Bully Boys

    63. The General says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      I hate seeing somebody getting bullied

      You are not helping thus situation

    64. defo says:

      Poor shots there, Tartan Tory played twice in a few comments.
      Back to training lad/s.

    65. The General says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      You have not posted all day, but you just couldn’t help yourself when you saw the crowd ganging up on one person

    66. Bob Mack says:

      @Circium..

      A, as in one Swiss Doctor. I have several hundred studies including by the WHO who disagree with him. It’s a scientific review paper,not fact.

    67. Arthur C says:

      United 77th is missing their supersub CBB who is was sent off for Viral Legislative Incontinence after breaking the 2 metre rule.

    68. CameronB Brodie says:

      From the perspective of ethical rationalism and moral realism, it simply isn’t cricket to allow the illiberal any space to punt their populism. Just saying.

      They did it!
      The content, effects, and mechanisms of blame attribution in populist communication

      https://pure.uva.nl/ws/files/13305749/07_Conclusion.pdf

    69. cynicalHighlander says:

      I can see the rev shutting this blog down till civility returns.

    70. Arthur C says:

      Ronnie Anderson runs onto the pitch waving his Saltire, listen to the Hampden crowd roar.

    71. Capella says:

      @ cirsium – re the covid numbers in Sweden and schools – this was aired on the radio today. They found that infection rate for teachers was the same as that in the general community.

      You’d think if children don’t pass it on infection rates in schools should have been lower.

      Whatever, Sweden has the worst rates in Europe. Not a good example of how to contain a pandemic.

    72. ronnie anderson says:

      Briandoonthetoon av heard it aw noo you’ve hid that association with 77th Brigade quite well ah big Tammy doft tae you from aw yer freens of WoS LoL .

    73. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi there, “The General” at 11:02 pm.

      Although I don’t believe I have addressed you, in any shape or form, you thought it was appropriate to type,

      Brian Doon toon
      Fuck off and don’t annoy me
      You are a stuck up old Tartan Tory bastard

      AS someone else pointed out, you lot are really crawling out of the woodwork tonight, iye? Showing your true colours?

      You too, should retire to a dark corner and self-procreate. Once again,

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHVuPhOUDH4

    74. Arthur C says:

      He’s back from his hols, the games a bogie, oidhche mhath.

    75. Bob Mack says:

      C@Arthur C,

      Are the opposition wearing the “cookie” 77th Sunset strip.

      That’s for the oldies by the way.

    76. defo says:

      That’s why a seasoned pro, The Sensible one, is on the field now Arthur.

    77. The General says:

      Safe to take the tin helmet off

      Things can turn quite nasty here on Wings

      There is a nasty vicious streak that runs through the core of wings

      Not nice for any lurkers

    78. ronnie anderson says:

      Ronnie Anderson diznae run anywhere period I move at a sedate pace you would know that if you knew me ARSEHOLE

    79. defo says:

      Salmond pink Bob, the away with it strip.

    80. The General says:

      I know you from old, Mr Anderson

    81. Bob Mack says:

      @The General,

      Yes We noticed you.

    82. The General says:

      Mr Anderson

      You still taking the money buckets home with you???

      You made a wee fortune from that scam didn’t you Mr Anderson

      You and your side kick Brian Doon toon

      And anybody who wants to organise all the Raffles wants watching

      You are what is known in the trade as a Bengol Lancer

    83. ronnie anderson says:

      Tartan Tory has been mentioned several time on this thread an he hisnae been oan Wings fur yonks an aw yous Multi named 77th brigade poster kin go fuck yerselves

    84. Liz g says:

      cirsium @ 11.08
      There is probably an element of truth in the virus being exaggerated.
      “Joe” may even be right about it!
      But I took two things away from all that was said.

      Firstly…and mainly
      The population on these islands has an expectation of how they think their NHS work’s, the Government needed time or the NHS and all they’d done to it would have been exposed….at some point the Government realised the population might just not put up with such a truth.
      They therefore managed expectations.
      They never said, and neither did our own government here,that the lock down would change the virus.They only ever said that it would allow planning time.
      It was always,I’d say, only ever people managing. Which is if ye strip it right back what governments do/are for.

      Secondly…
      The messaging to achieve a successful management of expectations,was never ment for those who really look,it was ment for those who need,want or are only capable of retaining the most basic and crude form of information….nothing too sinister about that either…it’s as auld as Methuselah!
      As is the tame “voice of the people” like Prissy Morgan!!!
      The Virus and it’s dangers are real and the shenanigans around it are politics,just politics!!

    85. robbo says:

      Just b4 you go to bed ,don’t let the bed bugs bite,but nightmares could be on cards looking at these photos.

      click on show

      https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1273365410218467332

    86. Liz g says:

      Arthur C
      Pog mo thon

    87. ronnie anderson says:

      Briandoonthe toon isnae ma sidekick He’s ma PAL Whit wiz yer rank before you promoted yersel

    88. A Person says:

      -Breeks-

      I also have no medical knowledge so my opinion is not one you should put much faith in.

      However, as I understand it this virus is a coronavirus not a flu.

      There is no guarantee that it will mutate.

      It is very similar to SARS which broke out in China in 2002 and which didn’t have a second wave.

      I’ve never been one for mindless positivity but there is cause to think it’s under control in the general population. As you say we must take reasonable precautions (I’m amazed at the number of people who didn’t wash their hands previously)

      Of course I may need to eat my words- let’s hope not!

    89. Ruglonian says:

      Did David’s suicide goad to Cameron earlier go unnoticed by some?

      Are folk unaware that we are a community here and some of us are pals that go *way* back?

      Is there a sign up somewhere saying we tolerate everyone regardless of how disgusting their behaviour is?

      Answers on a postcard to the usual address 🙂

    90. The General says:

      The SNP have turned into a shower of old Tartan Tories.

      I know it is an old label, but very apt for the shower of old vultures that hang about this site

      Snobby old stuck up Tartan Tories

      Usually Sturgeon Roadies

    91. Colin Alexander says:

      Blooming heck.

      It’s like George Square on here the night. Glad I missed most of it.

    92. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi The General at 11:36 pm.

      You typed,
      Mr Anderson
      You still taking the money buckets home with you???
      You made a wee fortune from that scam didn’t you Mr Anderson
      You and your side kick Brian Doon toon

      You have now swerved into the realm of LIBEL, which will be reported to Rev Stu.
      At every WOS stall, the cash collected was counted, and accounted for, by the helpers on the stall, usually Betty Boop, Liz G, Dundee Annie and so on. Ronnie had nothing to do with it; nor did I.
      After the cash was counted, a vote was taken by the stall helpers as to got a share. For example, Taught By Mohammed (Dundee), the foodbank in Dumfries, Maryhill Foodbank, Indylive, Wee Ginger Dug, Ayemail and so on. A proportion was kept for purchasing stock from Ayemail.

      You have crossed the line.
      All the cash was accounted for.

    93. Joe says:

      @Bob mack @8:08pm

      Gotta hand it to you all banter aside that was one hell of comment. Not sure if you meant it and it probably slipped under many radars but that was good. Sums up Scotland at this moment. Cheers

    94. The General says:

      Brian toon

      Aye Right!!!

      One to Ronnie
      One to Brian
      One to Ronnie
      One to Brian
      One to Ronnie
      One to Brian
      One to …

      Do you think we are that daft toony???

    95. Capella says:

      @ Ruglonian – I noticed and so did Stu. The best thing to do about abusive bullies, as well as completely ignoring trolls, is to email Stu via the Contact tab at the top of the page. I have done it before but sometimes it may take a few to make the point.

    96. robbo says:

      Guys

      Ronnie & Brian

      David and The General will just be ‘the dug’ or ‘millennium’ using his other multiple personality disorder characters. Same shit, different names.

    97. Ruglonian says:

      Hi Capella, I saw Stu’s comment.
      I was talking for the benefit of the guy who was attempting to defend him (doesn’t look he’ll be here much longer though – NO ONE picks on our MR A and gets away with it!)

      Your advice is entirely correct.
      Stu requires us to bring this type of thing to his attention, and including the link to the actual comment is a helpful addition to any message we send.

    98. Bob Mack says:

      @A person,

      Evidence already there virus in Beijing is a mutation.

    99. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi robbo.

      I can’t disagree with you. It only takes a wee prodding to bring them out in their true colours.

      I’ve emailed Rev Stu about the potential libel.

    100. Famous15 says:

      Where did the General come from? George Square?

      Scotland getting it the neck for harbouring “loyalist” . British Nationalists all detesting Scotland and telling us to”stick your independence up your arse” fascist,racist,sectarian bastards singing Rule Britannia,God Save the Queen and it is “Scotland’s shame”

      Well this Scotsman would wish to ask them to desist but the last time he did he was called a fenian,sheep shagging Jock.

      In fact they said there was no such country called Scotland.

      And we get the bad press. Sheesh!

    101. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Aw the dafties will be off to George Square again tomorrow, this time to protect the statues against the re-election of Ireland to the UN Security Council.

      Serr fecht being a BTUKOK activist these days…

      😉

    102. Capella says:

      @ Ruglonian – I hope people do email Stu. Better to remove the abusers than to close the comments down. Can we assume that independence is rising in the polls if we are attracting so much attention from unionists? 🙂

    103. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Hi all

      I am an old timer of this parish although I rarely post these days – mostly down to lack of time more than anything else. But I read most posts and keep an eye on what’s happening BTL.

      I could say so much more but it’s late and I’m beddy-bound. I am also keen not to offer anything that feeds the trolls.

      But I really must say this:

      You would be hard-pushed to find two more honest men in this world than Ronnie Anderson and Brian Doon-the-toon. These guys are genuine, open-minded, open-hearted “givers”, pure and simple. They work damned hard at maintaining a friendly welcome at the well-run Wings stalls, as well as a scrupulously transparent – and always independently witnessed – handling of any donations or funds that emerge at any of the events.

      Myself and the many other Wingers who have known Ronnie and BDTT for several years here now BTL, and also “in real life” at the many marches, rallies and shindigs over the past 8 years, refute absolutely these malevolent accusations. How dare these trolls publicly and ignorantly impugne the honesty of Ronnie and BDTT? These are pathetic and *completely false* slurs on the character and integrity of these two hard-working and honest men who graft tirelessly for the Indy movement.

      In short, these trolls can simply “get tae”.

      And will henceforth be completely ignored.

    104. Bob Mack says:

      @Quinie,

      Spot on.

    105. Ruglonian says:

      Capella, I know that my friends – who don’t necessarily post often, or some at all, but are always reading – do.

      Recently, when they were discussing the proliferation of some of the more unsavoury commenters, I reiterated the advice we’ve just discussed.

      I think there’s probably more going on ‘behind the scenes’ than some think. Folk are getting banned without us reading about it here, and I think that’s why we see new incarnations appearing around the same time as others disappear!

      The FOW (Friends Of Wings) twitter account may have a slight bearing on the traffic btl? I follow it and it’s very popular, and when things are popular they often draw unwanted attention.
      Just a thought.

    106. Ruglonian says:

      *love it so much when Quinie pops up*

      You’re a wise one Quinie and every word you’ve said is true!!

    107. Capella says:

      Well there certainly is a strong whiff of panic in the air. Take a look at The Times front page tomorrow – Scotland has the worst economy IN THE WORLD. Wow.

      https://twitter.com/MrMalky/status/1273392382575247361?s=20

    108. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      “Thanks, Quinie”, he typed, whilst thinking, “Aw shucks”…

    109. Liz g says:

      Capella @ 12.31
      Strong whiff???
      Overpowering stench mair like 🙂 🙂

    110. jfngw says:

      Looks like the best way to protect George Square is to remove all the statues, they serve no purpose anyway. I suspect the defenders hardly know who they are anyway. It was certainly my first thought when I arrived in Glasgow in 1979 ‘who the fuck are these people’. Of course I was doing missionary work having moved through from Edinburgh.

      If I was an undecided voter the behaviour on here tonight would not have persuaded me to support Yes, you don’t convert anyone by stooping to the level of your opponent.

    111. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – I’m being polite on account of the more politer atmosphere that has just developed. Quinie Fae Angus too. Well said.

    112. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Shall we compile a list of those to “like”?

      David
      The General
      Arthur C

      Feel free to add more “likes”…
      (Wonders, who have we left out, who is feeling slighted by oversight?)

    113. Bob Mack says:

      @jfngw,

      Not do you convert folk when they find you can’t stand up for yourself. Being a doormat is not a good look.

    114. Ruglonian says:

      With respect jfngw, this place is more than simply about the “undecided”, it’s as much for the weary activist to recharge amongst likeminded company, or the inactive Yesser to come and catch up with the latest etc.

      Ensuring that the place is fit for all eyes at all times is no easy task in a place where freedom of expression is key, and there have been some horrific posts on here today that warranted attention – some things can’t simply be ignored!!

    115. Capella says:

      @ jfngw – where else can Glaswegians park their parking cones? Where are the seagulls to sit?
      What puzzled me was that unionists headed for Robert Peel’s statue on Sunday. Then the police had to surround them at the Robert Peel statue. Irony. Why on earth does Glasgow have a statue of Robert Peel?

    116. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah blaws XXX an waves tae Wee Quinie

    117. Liz g says:

      Quinie far Angus @ 12.20
      My ye don’t half make an entrance Quinie 🙂 .
      Every word ye say is true and I’m all for “henceforth” when it comes fae a Quinie.
      onwards ma friend!!

    118. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @Ruglonian @12.27 am

      Hi Ruglonian

      I think you could be right about that FoW account on Twitter. I started following it a few weeks ago too. It seems to be gaining a lot of traction so whoever’s running it must be doing something right. Must be bringing a lot of new readers to this site.

      Hardly surprising really, that there have been among these new readers, a few “surprise guests”, adding their pithy pearls of wisdom to the BTL discussions.

      What makes me laugh though, is that the trolls really – still – just do not “get it” at all.

      They really know very little – and understand even less – about the grassroots Yes movement. The disparate yet connected, passionate yet pragmatic, heated yet friendly…beating heart of it all.

      The fact that the trolls think they can come on here and disrupt, or start hyperbolic nonsense about two gents (Ronnie A and BDTT) who have enriched both the movement itself and also the lives of anyone who’s ever met them, just shows just how little these trolls actually, really know. About any of the individuals they try to malign, or about the grassroots Yes movement at its heart.

      And that is our strength, friends. They may poke in their noses and try their damnedest to provoke, to stir, to derail, but they will never truly penetrate the essence of the grassroots campaign for Scottish Independence.

      Let’s stay safe, sane, calm….ignore the fannybaws, and look forward to the next time we can all enjoy the hilarity and camaraderie of a Wings post-rally “social”.

      Or just a better quality of life BTL.

      They just won’t get the better of us. And that quiet knowledge allows me to go to bed a very happy, chortling little bunny.

      Hi to you too, Capella.

      Night, all.

    119. ronnie anderson says:

      Nite all true wingers Stay Safe

    120. Liz g says:

      English Queen…Well Meet Again!
      Angus Quinie…. Ignore The Fannybaws!

      Oh my giddy aunt…I know where Scotland’s at 🙂

    121. Liz g says:

      Nite Ronnie take care of you xxx

    122. Beaker says:

      Brief thoughts (or a feeble attempt at humour):

      George Square protesters tomorrow will be 6 guys short. That might confuse some of their friends, as humans only have 5 fingers on each hand…

      An experiment searching for signs of elusive dark matter has detected an unexplained signal. Unconfirmed sources believe it to be the “world beating” COVID-19 app to be used in the UK…eventually…possibly next month… definitely this year…

      And to finish:
      Dogs can’t operate MRI machines. But cats can.

    123. Liz g says:

      Beaker @ 1.21
      But it’s all those with * Wings * that operate the internet best!

    124. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      What is interesting, as I view it, is that when long time contributors (and activists) to WOS see a threat arise, we ‘circle the wagons’.

      long time contributors get their fingers on the keyboard and back us up. All of us…

      “THEY” will not prevail.

      George Square, 2016.

      https://i.imgur.com/DIBNyXB.jpg

    125. Liz g says:

      BrianDoonthetoon @ 1.31
      Always Brian…Have I no said so often enough?
      We’ve not gone away…we never did.
      We’re all right here and any one who thinks differently is a fool.
      They never seen to wonder how we all know when to step up 🙂
      When we need this space…we’ll have it…it was and is always ours for the taking!
      Indy Ref Two…will be communicated here!

    126. Quinie frae Angus says:

      LizG

      Hear Hear!

      Night night to readers old and new.

      “They thought they had crushed us, but forgot we were only seeds…..”

    127. call me dave says:

      Radio shortbread telling us that the Scottish Affairs Committee in Westminster is to scrutinise the way Scottish Goverment’s response in dealing with the Corona Virus.

      Starts today. Well a fair hearing is assured then…Oh wait!
      🙂

      The 11-person committee that has been agreed is made up of five Conservative, three SNP, two Labour and one Lib Dem MP, with the Conservatives gaining one extra member and Labour losing one.
      Four of the committee members, two Conservative and two Labour, represent constituencies in England.

      https://archive.is/o80eQ#selection-917.0-921.100

    128. Sinky says:

      Telling that BBC Radio Scotland reports on scuffles between two groups in George Square and says one group sang Refugees Welcome but not that the other sang Rule Britannia…
      Thugs not called Unionists…why not.

    129. Latest count of #COVID19 cases worldwide at 0100 GMT, June 18:
      World: 8,328,538
      U.S.: 2,162,785
      Brazil: 955,377
      Russia: 552,549
      India: 354,065
      Britain: 300,717
      Spain: 244,683
      Peru: 240,908
      Italy: 237,828
      Chile: 220,628
      Iran: 195,051
      (Data: Johns Hopkins University)

      Great Brutish Empire now over 300,000 confirmed cases of Covid 19

      with 42,000 deaths (recorded)

      that means in the Great Brutish Empire you have a 14% chance of dying if you have Covid 19,

      Germany (much larger population) has 190,000 confirmed cases of Covid 19

      with 9,000 deaths (recorded)

      that means in Germany you have a 4.7% chance of dying from Covid 19.

    130. Sensibledave says:

      Scot Finlayson

      You wrote “that means in the Great Brutish Empire you have a 14% chance of dying if you have Covid 19,“

      … it is amazing how much complete tosh can be compressed into one sentence! You really haven’t been paying attention have you.

    131. @Sensibledave,

      are you saying my arithmetic is wrong ?

      what % of 300,000 is 42,000, if i am wrong am happy to be corrected.

    132. jfngw says:

      @Ruglonian

      I’m afraid this ‘circling the wagon’ is not a good look, not your quote but one of the many replies to me. It makes this look like a site were only a certain clique are allowed, if you post doesn’t meet their requirements then you will be driven off the site.

      You don’t need a pile on to get the point across that someone’s comment has overstepped the mark, and in this case the Rev had already addressed the post. The rest of the posts added nothing to his comment, just looked like a gang of bullies, no different from what was happening in George Square but being delivered by independence supporters,. You embarrassed yourselves.

    133. jfngw says:

      I see someone on twitter querying the cost of the Boris Johnson vanity plane, why is a £80k paint job costing £800k. Well it’s not an easy job fitting a pole dancing kit into a plane safely, I hope this dispels any suggestion of impropriety.

    134. Sensibledave says:

      Scot

      Clues …. there are 60 million folk that live in the uk and 42000 have sadly died. An unknown number of people have had COVID 19 … not just 300k. Most people have been asymptomatic. A 5 year old has less chance of dying from covid than been struck by lightening whilst an 80 year old with COPD is a very high risk.

      So whilst the the 300k and the 42k may well be correct numbers, the sum you did does not result in the conclusion you arrived at.

    135. Bob Mack says:

      @jfngw,

      Unfortunately there is no one “group thought”. People react when they see abuse of any type. It’s very good of the Rev to point it out, but things are taken very personally when they attack posters without restraint.

      I think what they got back was very mild compared to what they dished out. Don’t you?

    136. jfngw says:

      @sensibledave

      You don’t seem to know the difference between CMR & IFR.

    137. jfngw says:

      @Bob Mack

      One reply would have been sufficient, I don’t find pile ons show the independence movement in a good light. If you want to give your opponents ammunition then go ahead but don’t be surprised when they drag it up as an example of the intolerance of the Yes movement.

    138. Sinky says:

      @sensibledave

      You do know that the official UK Coronavirus Data site from which Boris Johnson uses his figures shows that you have 50% more chance of dying in England than Scotland. However the MSM / BBC etc never show the figures for the four nations as it puts Scotland in a better position than England and Labour run Wales.

      https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=nations&map=rate

      Also Euromono makes a nonsense of claims that Scotland’s care home deaths are higher than England’s. Their Z rate of excess seasonal mortality shows England THREE TIMES higher than Scotland. Scroll down to country comparison at bottom of maps and graphs.

      https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

    139. Sinky says:

      @cirsium says It’s not the Children who are involved if schools go back its all the other people working in close situations, teachers and their assistants,janitors, dinner ladies plus very vulnerable grandparents taking younger kids to and from school.

    140. @Sensibledave,

      thanks for reply,

      would this be a correct conclusion,

      of 300,000 `confirmed` cases of covid 19 in GBE this has resulted in 42,000 `confirmed` deaths of covid 19 in GBE,

      or 14% of `confirmed` cases of covid 19 die in GBE,

      where only 4.7% of `confirmed` cases of covid 19 die in the Federal Republic of Germany.

    141. Capella says:

      Excellent article by Barrhead Boy, “The ISP, The List & Holyrood.” Summary of the new independence party and why it can succeed in maximising the Independence vote. The Greens are focused on Environment, the SNP are barking up the GRA tree. Time to do the decent thing and remove unionist B listers from the voting chamber.

      http://www.barrheadboy.com/3420-2/

    142. Republicofscotland says:

      The racist unionist thugs were back in Glasgow’s George Sq last night, beating up those who were standing up for asylum seekers, whilst bellowing out Rule Britannia.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18524358.george-square-thugs-clash-asylum-rights-protesters/

      Meanwhile Home secretary Priti Patel has links with anti-BLM group.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18522812.priti-patel-linked-campaign-protect-monuments-blm-protests/

    143. Capella says:

      @ jfngw – I disagree. I regard this forum as like a town hall meeting. Some bovver booted, union jack waving, loudmouths swan in and dominate proceedings, insult people, incite suicide and disrupt the exchange of views.

      What to do is obviously a personal choice. Use the Conract tab to let Stu know. Respond to the abusive comments? Stay silent while others are bullied for speaking out?

      I think you sometines have to show solidarity when others are attacked. First they came for the disabled…..

    144. Effijy says:

      Republic of Scotland

      Let us hope that SNP leaders can show those horrific Covid figures
      For England. Both England and Scottish nations deserve to know
      That their lives are endangered by the Westminster government but they
      And the UK Media refuse to give you sight of the truth.

    145. Sensibledave says:

      Scot

      Whilst I dont know if the figures you are using are correct, the sum, and the conclusion you draw, is now correct.

      As you know though, one of the major criticisms of the UK government here on Wings, has been its inability to get testing done in the same quantities as some other countries. Less test results in less confirmed cases which then leads to false equivalence.

      Whichever way we look at the the figures, 42,000 dead is an awful tragedy. I just dont see the point in trying to score political points when we wont be able to compare figures internationally until we can look back and compare excess death rates. Then there are lots of other factors that will influence death rates in countries, areas, cities, towns and rural areas.

      @jfngw …

      … I dont need to. Mr Finlayson’s original comment was incorrect and he has now corrected it.

      @Sinky

      You wrote “You do know that the official UK Coronavirus Data site from which Boris Johnson uses his figures shows that you have 50% more chance of dying in England than Scotland.”

      On issues like this, it is important that folk are clear, acurate and truthful. So for instance, your statement above suggests more folk in Scotland are going to experience eternal life than in England!

      You didn’t mean that did you … but it is what you have written. If you have some important point you want to make … be clear, acurate and truthful.

    146. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      I’ve not gone away, but I see you’re still hostile to limited government and equality in law. Well. that’s your biosocial nature, innit?

      A Narrative Theory of History and Identity
      https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230609181_6

    147. mike cassidy says:

      Is this a taste of what’s to come in Scotland with the Hate Crime Bill?

      http://archive.is/Ajz1W

    148. Liz g says:

      Jfngw @ 8.57
      I think you’ve misunderstood the ” circling the wagons” reference.
      The motivation is not to drive anyone from this site,that is and remains the Revs business.

      The “wagons” were circulated to claim this space as the only independent and unregulated place for the exchange of information that we have.
      Individual posters come here at their own risk and they know it,it was never about protecting any body like we were a British statue or something 🙂

      There was more than one poster throwing round insults and trying to create a row,funnily enough just after the Rev had said to “behave or ALL the comments would go into pre moderation”!
      As Capella has said a show of support for other Yess’ers is a very different thing from an “approved” group’s approval,and a power we don’t have here anyway.

      As to how we look to our opponents….
      That’s so 2014, I’m so over that shit.
      I give that particular consideration nae mair thought noo, that ship has long sailed my friend.

    149. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      Here’s one to help improve the ethics of you identity politics. Btw, seeing as you appear to believe that Britain is one nation, do you also believe trans women are women? Both ideologies express the same patriarchal and authoritarian colonisation of a legal ‘inferior’. Both ideologies are grounded in the irrational.

      The Ethical Significance
      of Nationality

      http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/David-Miller-The-Ethical-Significance-of-Nationality.pdf

    150. jfngw says:

      @liz g

      You may be ‘over that shite’ but just handing bullets to the Scottish media to load their gun doesn’t seem like a sound strategy to me. You can be assertive without being aggressive.

      @capella
      But it’s not a town hall meeting, it is a worldwide open forum. If we can only deal with trolls by adopting their approach then we are just the same as them, but with a Saltire attached.

      I’ve had a few run ins with a some (hi Joe), I try and keep it to sarcasm, it usually makes them lose the plot and they just start swearing at me. I always take that as a result.

    151. Capella says:

      @ jfngw – I said LIKE a town hall meeting. It is a metaphor.

      I was certainly not advocating we behave like trolls. The site advice is to not respond nor discuss trolls but to use the contact tab and let Stu decide. Trolls exist to disrupt, demoralise and divide. Let’s not go down that route.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/About/

    152. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Capella.

      It’s actually a simile.

      “The moon was a ghostly galleon, tossed upon cloudy seas” is a metaphor.

      “The moon was like a ghostly galleon, tossed upon cloudy seas” is a simile.

      8=)

    153. Capella says:

      @ BDTT – OK smarty pants. A simile it is 🙂

    154. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Capella.

      I was taught that in Primary 7 at Macalpine Primary School, St Marys, Dundee. It’s stuck with me. A metaphor states that something is something else, whilst a simile states that something is like something else.

      It’s from the poem, “The Highwayman”.

      The first three lines are all metaphors!

      https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43187/the-highwayman



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