A good point well made
Posted on
May 26, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We’re rather kicking ourselves for not having spotted this one when it was staring us in the face, so kudos to Welsh professor of political science Roger Scully for the catch.
In the 2009 European elections, UKIP got 16.5% of the vote in the UK as a whole, and 5.2% in Scotland – a gap of 11.3%. In this year’s election the tallies were 27.5% in the UK and 10.5% in Scotland – a gap of 17%.
In other words, despite all the bluster from Unionists about how Scotland can no longer claim to be different to the rest of the UK in terms of supporting Nigel Farage’s party, in fact the degree of difference has substantially increased, by a whopping 55%.
It just seems worth pointing out.
You might also like the take from this chap who concludes ‘Scotland is a very different country’ and goes on to say “if I was a resident of Scotland I’d much rather brave the uncertainty of independence and self-determination, than risk facing a Tory-UKIP coalition ruling over Scotland from down in London.”
link to anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk
If the tory share is up that also marks us out as different, just not in a good way
posted on last thread but..
Hold the front page – balanced and truthful report from BBC shocker. Allan Little reporting from Edinburgh telling it like it is ukip came 4th 10% of vote and England ukip 1st 30% Scotland’s result looking more like Germany than England and Wales. If you want Scotland to stay in EU then you might want to think about voting for independence in September..picks self back up…
Thinking about it, UKIP getting a footing in Scotland may be exactly what the Yes side has been needing.
We’ve been behind in the polls since the get-go of this campaign. We’ve been pulling back ground to a point where we’re not far off 50-50, but have not been quite able to reach over into the 51 mark quite yet. Some people have been hefty undecided, and as of UKIP’s footing in our beautiful wee country last night, we’ve heard that this has encouraged some undecideds to declare support for or sway further towards Yes. Even on Twitter some hardcore No people have stated that the result last night might just make them think twice.
Put it this way, if Gideon Osborne’s currency threat gave Yes a surge, imagine what UKIP’s involvement could do.
I think that with Scotland now having this UKIP MEP things are about to get a whole lot more lively.
Scotland has seen the future under the Union with a Tory/UKIP coalition as a distinct possibility in 2015. Add in all the taking UK out of Europe and I think that small business is going to start squirming. An Indy Scotland does not look very scary a prospect in comparison to the UK right now.
I think we must also recognise the possibility that some who voted for UKIP came from both the Yes and No camps who would rather see Britain/Scotland out of the EU and used this opportunity as a protest vote. A small number I grant you.
I have heard David Coburn on the BBC today and he floundered in response to basic questions. He is a buffoon who is more a threat to UKIP itself than he is to the YES Campaign.
It will be interesting to see if BBC continue their UKIP sponsorship leading up to the Eastleigh by election in a couple of weeks.
Cockroaches have a way of flattening themselves to scuttle under the gap of doors. They can move very fast, tend to come out at night, are very noisy feeding, and sustain themselves on rotten detritus humans leave around.
Annie: Newark.
bbc labour scotland hate ukip
brooster coburn is out of his depth, no doubt about it
we should bum up his better togher credentials, and let bbc scotland destroy him
i think they will discredit him fast before he gains any traction in bettter together camp
he is poison to them
he is a gift to us
get digging folks, i want to know where he buys his socks
please, could someone please produce a photo of him with a bt logo or banner behind him? this needs to be shared on face book
What was the overall turnout figures for both years… very low turnout this year I thought… could be wrong. A low turnout would increase percentage share of outlying parties as proper protest voters didn’t vote and lazy buggers that don’t see that, like it or not, EU elections aren’t a joke and does affect us all.
im not going off topic, sarwar counted the ukip votes in his total
they cant have it both ways
Scotland’s ‘actually’ bucking the trend!
http://www.eezypeezylemonsqeezy.com
Another Angry Voice makes a really good point about this:
‘UKIP took just 10.2% of the Scottish vote, and UKIP and the Tories combined only managed to get 27.7% of the vote between them. Meanwhile in England the two Tory parties took significantly more than 50% of the vote between them.
The hugely different voting patterns between Scotland and England are demonstrated by the fact that the Tories and UKIP bagged 65% of the seats available in England, but in Scotland they were quite lucky to even sneak away with 33% of the seats.’
link to anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk
Doh! Just spotted the 1st comment. Sorry.
Interesting to go back to the 2009 European election. This took place when the Labour Government was in chaos. Ministers plotting to get rid of Gordon Brown the week of the election. Expenses scandal broke before the election was a recipe to depress the Labour vote for that election and many Labour supporters stayed at home, hence the lower turnout than the previous election.
The media darling in the run-up to that election was not just UKIP but the BNP which resulted in the BNP gaining 2 seats. UKIP’s vote share was only slightly up.
Last Thursday a lot of Labour voters who sat on their hands in 2009 came out but not enough to reverse the 2009 figures which flipped the SNP/Labour share from 2004. The SNP vote share more or less the same percentage share as 2009 despite the SNP being in Government from 2007 and open to a protest vote. It is easy to say that the increase in the Labour or UKIP vote came from X party. What is needed is an academic study into the election as I suspect votes went between all the various parties.
Grouse Beater,
You are surely not suggesting that Coburn could flatten himself to get under a door?
The BBC at lunchtime today said that Coburn had been resident,solely,in Scotland since December last year.
Glen Campbell on the John Beattie Lunchtime prog on Radio Scotland.
link to bbc.co.uk
Did Edinburgh Eye catch that?
BetterTogether C4 news was weird tonight with big report oop North, Farage stood for Westminster MPness 5 times!, yougov poll says England was a better place to bring up children 20 years ago, an EU ruined Grimsby fish industry, white English people on Clethorpes bank holiday BUT the mere 10% UKIP vote in London was because London is so sophisticated, cosmopolitan and clever.
Absolutely nothing at all about the 10% UKIP vote in Scotland, ofcourse. Cathy still quite doable though.
heedtracker
“Cathy still quite doable though.”
You nicked my wine?
[…] « A good point well made […]
You are surely not suggesting that Coburn could flatten himself to get under a door?
He is pretty capable of limbo dancing under any question from the media no matter how low they set the bar, even to the extent of showing openly he’s a class airhead.
A really interesting piece from the Guardian which all the regulars here should read:
link to theguardian.com
@ goldenayr, Cathy’s nae bad. C4 need to send her to Washington like what they did with oor Sarah Smith. She came back fair glammed up, big hair, whitened teeth etc. Check it all out tomorrow as Sarah tries fill old Sweaty Brewers cheezee shoes and may god have mercy on our Yes voting souls.
Very good of Professor Scully to help Murdo Fraser see that he got it totally wrong.
Well done the Welsh education system and WOS for communicating this information.
heedtracker
Sent a complaint to the beeb last week when I saw the trailer for the new show.
“It’s only sweaties,just give them some sport and the rest can be One Show guff”
Still waiting on a reply,probably think I’m agreeing with them and wondering why it’s in complaints.
I met Murdo Fraser once, he was lost on a back road in Fife and asked me for directions. It looks like he’s still lost,
Adrian B
Wow!
It did leave me with the feeling that this guy shouldn’t be teaching though.
Alan Little, from Edinburgh, was on the main BBC news at the back of 6. I was waiting for his very even-handed and true account of the results in Scotland to be interrupted but it was allowed to be completed.
I thought, “We won’t see him again.”
Well blow me down with a white leather feather! He was on again with, more or less, the same report at 10.30!
Could it be that all the criticism of BBC bias is striking home?
More on UKIP, this time from Left Foot Forward:
link to leftfootforward.org
Thanks to Rev and all you wonderful Wings folk for the positive comments and articles today. Last night, having stayed up to see the voting results, I went to bed with a very heavy heart.
I live in Highland and couldn’t believe that over 7000 people voted for UKIP. I was shocked and disgusted, I still am.
But, having seen a number of people that I know were apathetic, undecided or no voters suddenly decide that this was the last straw and become engaged, or even state that the results last night have made them decide to vote yes.
I think a number of people have not really been engaged until now, but what happened in England has been a wake-up call.
I’ve been away for the last few weeks in the South West of England and saw UKIP posters everwhere, I found it chilling. Scary, that a significant number of people were not only ready to vote for UKIP, but they were willing to put huge billboards in their gardens and tell the world that’s what they were planning to do. I have been so very heartened today to see so very many people, upset by what has happened. Good. They should be upset. So many folk are re-evaluating their previous apathy and realising that if they are against the increasingly right wing politics in rUK then they have to do something about it and the only thing that they can do is vote yes in September.
At last, balance from Better Together. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you oor Anas and oor Murdo.
P.S. What more can Scotland expect of political representatives drawn from a deficient gene pool? 🙂
P.P.S. We are all diminished. 🙁
Good post Cindie.
Coburn is now Murdo, McDougall et al’s new best pal. Will they now be saying at Indyref debates, “I agree with David”?…
Newark – where did Eastleigh come from, I stand corrected.
@Croompenstein
Hold the front page – balanced and truthful report from BBC shocker.
P45 for Alan Little.
@Adrian B –
Cheers for those links. That’s important documentary right there, and will no doubt come back to bite mssrs Coburn/Farage.
Of course UKIP have failed, relatively, in Scotland compared with the rest of the UK. Even the BBC’s figures show this –
link to bbc.co.uk
The Scottish increase in UKIP’s vote share is the lowest of all the constituencies at 5.2%, nearly half of the lowest rUK increase outside London and less than a third of the highest.
Scotland is different and Murdo Fraser is talking bollox.
@Brian Doonthetoon
Could it be that all the criticism of BBC bias is striking home?
I’m afraid not, Alan Little has been the sole voice of sanity at the BBC for several months now. The rest of his colleagues will continue to peddle the BT message all the way to September.
Check out tomorrow’s Scottish Daily Mail front page:-
“Farage : I’ll Fight Salmond to Save Britain”
Folks, Coburn winning his seat & UKIP topping the poll in England is a gift for us. I have grown cheerier as the day has gone on. And the beauty is – for once – the MSM have done the job for us. They’ve given hours & hours of exposure to UKIP.
All we need to keep saying is Vote No = Get the toxic Tories & UKIP in 2015.
Can I just say that I think 24 hours on we are all a lot calmer regarding our Nige’s representative in Scotland.
Whilst last night a few of us appeared, to me at least, to be getting a bit fraught about our Nige’s rep. Personally I thought our Nige’s arrival on the scene would actually help us in our fight for independence. From snippets I read around the web today I think this may actually be coming true.
Anyone who hasn’t seen how their council vote count went can check them out here.
link to tinyurl.com
Thanks Goldenayr x
Cindie
Blush!
Looks like our Nige thinks Alex salmond actually cares a jot about anything he, our Nige, says or even thinks. Apparently when no one speaks to him our Nige resorts to threatening to to fight them. Unfortunately for our Nige the First Minister has far better things to do like run a country than *ahem* fight with Farage. Come to think about it I think our Nige will be doing a lot of fighting with his new unionist best mates to get a foot in the door of Better Together HQ. 😛
link to tinyurl.com
You have to feel for Nick Cleg, He has physically aged a year for every MEP he has lost. What a cheek Nigel Farage quoting Ghandi/Wings “First they ignore you” on Sky News tonight in reference to UKIP results.
LA
There are very few positives to be taken from Westminsters manipulation and disenfranchisement of democracy.
The UKIP one however is a startling slip up by the Ox/Cam dons and their failure to fully appreciate human nature.
Harry Enfield expressed it best on Sunday night with his parody of Seventies OU progs and spectrum deficient academics.
Am getting a bit bored with the self determination of Scotland being reduced to these UK terms.
I see the plusses and minuses of last night’s results but ultimately the issue is unchanged – are we best looking after our own affairs with double the representation in the European parliament or are we better continuing in our diminished role?
I have 2 bros making the best of their emigration (but then they are the good kind of immigrants, ie not polish, not asian).
I hate using the UKIP threat on my polish, pakistani or Indian friends but Fuck me there cannot be an immigrant who can vote no after this.
My main man, a great packistan newsagent is fully Yes and these guys have sway over their family.
I don’t think the MSM understands anything about what is happening on the ground.
Given that BT rejected Farage’s ‘offer of help’ out of hand; it will be interesting to see how they cope with Coburn, when push comes to shove.
Whether they like it or not, he’s on the boat now. And all that bluster and hot air he’s notorious for, won’t fill the sails to their benefit. He’ll have the net effect of chucking the rudder overboard.
For me the only question is whether it’ll be the sound of the penny dropping, or the sound of implosion we hear first!
Appreciate the sentiment but your newsagents family,and him,are now probably fully integrated into the Scottish psyche.
I agree goldenayr, the Westminster *ahem* elite have been screwing this country, I mean UK here, for decades and no has been watching what has been going on. Even after the SNP appeared on the scene they were just seen as a toy political party for the nutty few Scots.
Now however things have taken a serious jerk to the right and every politician worth their salt from a UK political party is jumping through hoops as and when our Nige says jump!
I think most of us on here and other independence sites have seen this UKIP destroyer steaming in unfortunately for the unionists they were blinded to its imminent arrival. Well guess what Mr unionist, the destroyer sitting at the end of the quay is HMS UKIPPER! 🙂
As others have said I think the arrival of UKIP in such a storming fashion will be the fillip that YES needs to really get going once the real war starts at the end of the month. UKIP are, in my view, the best possible present any unionist could give us who are fighting for a YES win. 😉
LA
The Ox/Cam dons are going to rue the day they tried to rewrite history.
After the ref the British establishment will hold no sway at all.
As I said to the unionits online 12 yrs ago(jeez).
“The wolves are circling London,the question is do you..roll over or join?”
As a suggestion why does Alex not debate with Farage on independence?
Two belief politicians, confident, charismatic, aggressive and both flying high would give a fascinating debate and enable Alex to put Farage in his place or not, once and for all.
In terms of the debate. Farage will be able to discuss without being limited by the subservience to EU that LibLabCon all have to follow. The UK Oxbridge politicians are all the same and are tied to the same dictated mantra. Do not the Scottish people deserve a real debate a capable UK politician, noting such a debate could provide a decisive moment in the referendum.
Whilst EU membership needs to be Scotland’s decision, the EU question is the elephant in the room in Scotland’s independence debate and I believe should be discussed by people driven by beliefs and not UK spin masters.
Farage: I’ll Fight Salmond to Save Britain”
So, Ukip completely unlike the SNP, after all.
Listen! Fear not. The truth will prevail.
And you are part of that. Call, and what you see is not a busted flush, but a pair of twos.
Farage and Cameron, potentially our next government? Are we that mad that we could vote for that?
Nah, I’m saying AYE!
I don’t reckon Coburn will get a look in frankly, for a couple of reasons.
One, he would be immensely damaging to the BT campaign, so that’s a good enough reason for the media to ignore him.
And two, what coverage do ANY of our MEPs get anyway? Next to nothing except every few years when there’s an election on.
He will be hidden from view and never discussed.
Truth
You forget the London line that anything anti-indy is good.
Don’t think for a second that what’s shown up here will be announced down there.
The establishment has created clear guidelines for the hard of thinking.
“Go with us or your fucked.”
Trouble is,most of us grew up in the malcontent years.
Let’s not forget it was MP Jim Murphy’s New Labour which first introduced immigration onto the UK political agenda as an important issue for no reason anyone can figure out, in the same way it adopted and ramped up welfare bashing as an issue as well as whole host of other traditional right-wing obsessions.
Here is Richard Seymour quoting Dan Hodges –
“How successful did this strategy for managing immigration as a political issue, as opposed to the management of migration itself, prove to be? At the time of the 1997 election, MORI’s Issue Tracker recorded the number of people citing race or immigration as the most important issue facing the nation at 3%. By last May’s election it was 38%. In 1997 the BNP stood 54 candidates and secured 36,000 votes, at an average of 664 votes per candidate. In 2010 they stood 339 candidates and obtained 566,000 votes, an average of 1,663 votes per candidate. A YouGov poll taken in March found that 69% of those questioned believed Labour’s management of immigration had been bad for the country, compared to 21% who thought it had been beneficial.
“Set aside principles or morality. Even on its own terms, our political management of immigration has been a disaster. Trying to ape the language of the BNP succeeded only in boosting the BNP.”
link to newleftproject.org
Interesting numbers from the BBC
Smallest increase in UKIP vote: Scotland 5.2%
Largest increase: E. Midlands 16.5%
link to bbc.com
All the Unionists/Westminster’s tax evaders have done is to turn bankrupt Britain into a corrupt State in order to line their own pockets. They just can’t get enough. Pathetic failures.
Barrel scraping time
“Labour msp Jackie Baillie says Alex Salmond should spend less time telling us why he hates the UK and more time explaining the consequences of separation”
BBC news this morning
Be careful what you wish for Jackie.
but just for any pedants on here (I know there are none)
Anyone recall Alex Salmond saying he “hates the UK”?
My apologies if anyone else has done the same calculation, but there is another measure which shows how small was the UKIP ‘success’ (and different from the voting pattern in rUK).
They won the 6th seat of 6 on offer. The margin of victory was so small that, even if there had been 13 MEPs to be elected, there would not have been a second Kipper. On the votes as cast, the d’Hondt system gives an allocation of 4 each to SNP and Labour, 2 each to the Tories and one each to UKIP, the Greens and LibDems.
I have read an opinion that iScotland’s will be entitled to 13 MEPs, and that the extra numbers will be allocated from the results of this election. So the calculation is not an empty one: there is a real chance that it may be used.
@James Kay
Yep, looks like your d’Honte calculation is right.
That assumes they would keep it all in 1 big Scotland-wide constituency and not split it into 2 or 3 smaller ones. It they did split it up into smaller constituencies then there might not be any Kippers (as their vote was fairly evenly spread throughout Scotland compared to other parties).
The majority of ‘immigrants’ coming into Britain, are the Brit ex pats coming back from Spain because of the banking crisis caus by the US/UK controlled banks and Merkel’s EU policies not being effective. The affected countries needed time to recover not austerity, causing further economic collapse.
The ConDems were elected to cut the deficit and protect NHS/Education. They have failed. The debt is reported to be increasing, NHS/Education have been cut. The Westminster tax evaders have increased the wealth of themselves and their associates from Public monies. The reason they went into politics. Never have so many been promoted above their capabilities.
The Ghost train to nowhere is underway, wasting £Billions of Public monies, but increasing the Wedtminster’s tax evaders wealth for friends and families. There is absolutely no business case for the train track to nowhere at present. The train service should be taken back into public service and the public monies should be invested in improving the service, especially in the North.
Saw a nice map of permitted participants in the referendum and where they are based. There are no pro Union organisations based in Scotland, and no sign of the entities known as ”Scottish Labour, Libdums or Tories. There are however Labour, Conservative and LibDums who are all based in London. How telling!
Just to round it off, other delights listed are EDL, BNP, Britain First, OO, Apprentice Boys of Derry, and some other YES vote producing delights!
The Union has just handed itself the longest rope in history. A few interviews with coburn should give folks a jolt or will he be binned to the side and give the Fridge a platform. happy days 🙂
It appears Murdo opened his mouth and inserted his leg. After the tweet fest that he and certain members of the press participated in, do they really think they did themselves any favours in the public’s eyes? All they’ve done is reveal for all to see, just how low they’re willing to stoop to score political points.
And boy is that ever low. I hope to hell Murdo cringes every time he looks upon that tweet now.
I can hear the sound of pennies dropping all over Scotland.
Deeply shocked lefties, Labour supporters, immigrants, genuine undecideds and otherwise sensible soft NOs are waking up to the fact the a NO vote in September will be catastrophic.
It makes me wonder…
All those ‘Undecided’s’…obviously, they weren’t voting UKIP before, or else, they would have said so. We are guessing that what (speculating here) that 10 to 15% of the country are still ‘Undecided’.
I think it is fair to say that most folk who voted UKIP were disenfranchised Tory-Labour-Lib supporters, therefore, the UKIP vote came from the ‘No’ camp. In one sense, the ‘No’ camp is no longer looking all-out democratically and moderately Unionist …it now has serious Racist and Bigoted elements within its core. Excellent. Just what we needed!
Now that UKIP have barnstormed England, but just got a toe in Scotland, it makes me wonder how many of those Undecided’s’ feel now. In fact, with the UKIP wolf at the front door, I wonder how many ‘Undecided’s’ have just edged into the ‘Yes’ camp. Obviously, the prospect of a Tory-UKIP coalition must be alarming to them.
The old term in Chess of ‘…sacrificing your queen’ to win the game. UKIP win a seat in Scotland, and all the ‘Undecided’s’ move into the ‘Yes’ camp …You win the game.
Not the worst bit of strategy…
LOL
link to facebook.com
John King @06:38
Of course Mr Salmond has never said that he ‘hates the UK’. However, the BBC have put that phrase in every GMS bulletin this morning presumably to counter anything positive the First Minister has to say about an independent Scotland.
Never drop your guard with the BBC; they are constantly attacking the Yes side at all levels
Did I miss something on BBC breakfast at around 7:50 the bloke from Brown Shipley saying, “…….so it’s a good idea to get out before the Scottish referendum vote” just as I turned on
Stuart says:
Thinking about it, UKIP getting a footing in Scotland may be exactly what the Yes side has been needing.
Just seen your comment, mate. Totally, totally agree!
In fact …a part of me wonder if it is a win-win scenario that the SNP thought out. If we can’t win that 3rd seat (which ‘implies’ that half of Scotland will vote ‘Yes’), then keep saying in your own statements ‘UKIP, UKIP, UKIP …bad’ and let the buggers win a seat, thus scaring the horses (undecided – Soft No’s) into the ‘Yes’ camp.
The tax evading Unionists have lied so much about immigration, it has come back to bite them. Still laughing all the way, the right wing Tory bankers, benefiting from the lies. Nigel uses Botox and is a lying alcoholic.
Consider that the SNP vote more or less stayed static from 2009, despite the efforts of the Rev and other interweb media.
What would the results be without the contribution of all these YES stalwarts?. It is complacent to say that the SNP maintained their vote despite being in government for seven years. The sad fact is that not enough Scots have been convinced that the SNP are good for Scotland. We need to remember that without the SNP, there NEVER would be any independence referendum for Scotland.
There is a hell of a lot of hard work needed in the following months to counter the UKOK propaganda machine. 🙁
@David – He was talking about Lloyds floating TSB shares and getting them out before the referendum.
The quote from Jackie Baillie that “Alex Salmond hates the UK”, is an example of why the SNP and even the YES camp should have a direct line to Pacific Quay to nip these lies in the bud.
The SNP/YES press offices really need to start justifying their wages here. They must hear the same shit that we hear.
We will soon be inside the official campaign, and allowing Scottish Labour, aided by BBC Scotland, to spout out whatever lies they like, must stop.
@Croompenstein
Thanks for that, guy looked quite pleased with himself when he said it I thought
The YES campaign will be reputing the lies. It will not be reported. The MSM is Wetminster controlled. The UK does not have a balanced Press, as required by a Democracy. Thatcher saw to that. Selective viewing. Don’t watch it. Boycott it. Viewing/listening gives it a voice.
The driving age should be increased to stop deaths and accidents. 10% of drivers age 17-24 caused 25% of accidents.
@JLT
I think it is fair to say that most folk who voted UKIP were disenfranchised Tory-Labour-Lib supporters, therefore, the UKIP vote came from the ‘No’ camp
There’s a section of society for whom politics is a series of basic prejudices. Ukip has tapped into them.
The English have always been suspicious of foreigners, and intellectuals, for that matter. It’s the least likeable aspect of the national character. A good number of countries control immigration tightly, mostly because there is not enough jobs and houses for them, and they don’t have a medical service wealthy enough to cope. That’s a fair policy, in my opinion. But Ukip go further, they advocate English is best. Whatever way you look at them they are a racist party.
O/T poll in the Courier right now asking if the European election result will make you more or less likely to vote YES:
link to thecourier.co.uk
YES currently on 45%
Jackie Baillie hates the UK, or more specifically the people of the UK. The Labour party retreated from it’s own people centric core values and essentially rejected those people to the rapine results of ultra Neo Con economics.
The electorate are the living, breathing heart of every state and by walking away from them you betray them. Labour adopted the London centric, Neo Conservative economies of division. That to me indicates a deep hatred of the UK. Her pal Murphy is equally wrong;
link to whitefeatherclub.wordpress.com
BBC at 8.30am repeating Jackie Bailley’s vile sound bite that Alicsammin hates the UK.
I am so glad I no longer pay for the BBC.(my neighbour plays his radio sooo loud,wee smiley thing)
Coburn is an extreme liability for the no campaign and everyone knows it.
I agree with the comments earlier that he will be completely ignored by the MSM and i think farage will be told to keep out of the debate as well.
Mind you, saying that, the media could push for a farage/salmond debate because they would love to frame the two as the outlying, on the fringe buffoons. (Tar the SNP with the same brush as ukip ect) think torrence has already went there?
Torrance!
Someone in BTUKOK must be getting patted on the head this morning.
How would anyone even begin to get the statement ‘Alex Salmond hates the UK’ in the main news bulletin on national airwaves at peak listening time? The presenter can’t just come out and say it, so it has to be done in the form of a quote. And there’s the rub – you would need a truly shameless desperado to repeat such guff to order…
Anyone else think that the latest narrative from the msm/BBC is an anti-English one. “English voters may hold key to referendum” “3 1/4 of immigrants are white English” BBC sponsoring the rise in Scotland of UKIP and just this morning on Good Morning Scotland at 0801 they played Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell the blood of an English man”.
I’m offended, if that was me in England and this kind of narrative was pushed I’d be a bit worried and offended. Complaint going in!
Of course when Unionists like Fraser (and David Torrance, much beloved of Newsnet Scotland, on GMS this morning) say that there is ‘no difference’ between England and Scotland what they really mean is that there’s therefore no reason for Scotland to exist at all.
The UKIP result pissed me off to such an extent I went out and delivered another 200 Yes papers last night. Was dying for a pro unionist encounter but didn’t meet a soul.
Well, now that I think about it, it was Saturday evening, and most people were out imbibing.
Watched the Lanark live stream. No got trounced.
🙂
Fergus Green
I can’t see the poll you are talking about in the Courier.
Do you have a direct link to the poll. TA!
Ian
the statement ‘Alex Salmond hates the UK’
Did someone actually say that? I did see and hear Darling, in front of the Scottish Economic Committee say to SNP’s Biagi the SNP hates Labour, but that’s typical of his thinking on all democratic issues affecting us. By what criteria does Salmond hate the UK? Opposition to Scotland’s ambitions is getting really shrill.
@Grouse Beater, the opposition to Scotland’s ambitions are ignored furth of Scotland. The media down south are completely involved in their own concerns only mouthing off when someone reminds them to. I do think that Murdo’s wee remark may work to our advantage as how many Scots do you know who like being said to be just like the “English”.
I have never heard Alex Salmond say at any time he hates anyone. I have heard it from the opposition all the time how much they hate the SNP and alicsammin, well he is the devil incarnate.
Gerry parker
“The UKIP result pissed me off to such an extent I went out and delivered another 200 Yes papers last night. Was dying for a pro unionist encounter but didn’t meet a soul”.
I’LL be doing likewise tonight Gerry. Another 250 newspapers will be dropping through letterboxes tonight.
This little UKIP setback will now be turned on it’s head and used as another reason to get out of this rotten union.
That’s all true, Helena.
Like others, I find Ukip’s rise on the back of exteme prejudices disturbing. But voter apathy is a key element in such candidates getting elected. Folk think European politics of less importance than domestic problems – Ukip encourage that outlook – hence voters sacrifice one for the other no matter the cost to integrity and honesty.
Yes, Jackie baillie’s comment stood out this morning.
Viv a vis the post, I think the gap would have been wider if UKIPs soon to be Shadow Chancellor had lined up with the other three.
Ian Brotherhood
“Someone in BTUKOK must be getting patted on the head this morning”.
Aye Ian, it’s Paul Sinclair, Johann Lamont’s puppet master.
David Harvey is always relevant and might help shed a little light on what the future might hold for a society dominated by the financial sector.
A Brief History of Neoliberalism by David Harvey
link to youtube.com
Arithmetically flawed. 2009, UK more than three times Scotland, 2014, less than three times Scotland. I’m a Yes supporter, but there’s no denying the gap is narrowing.
Coburn is an extreme liability for the no campaign and everyone knows it.
Well, racism has stopped the career of many a smart politician, but Coburn is the least able of any politician I have ever encountered. He’d be welcomed by the Tea Party.
I enjoyed his inability to articulate a single Ukip policy other than to say, by way of a croaky voice, “70% of Europe’s immigrants” are heading our way.
Rev, Im having problems getting into Of Topic ( continues loading )
O/t
The vote in the courier is now 46% yes to 19% no . Would the result in the Euro election make you vote more for Independence or against.
It’s underneath Lochgelly, Cowdenbeath both say YES! Made my morning!( sorry I can’t do links )
We are Better Together but not with anybody of European stock?
Alex and Nigel debating Scottish independence would sideline the whole of the No campaign leaders. Think of what people would feel about David Cameron, think of linking UKIP to No – and linking them to the next Westminster government/coilition, think of how David Cameron would feel having to sit back and watch a debate taking place that he has refused to take on. Think of how pleased Nigel would think himself at getting important air time.
The idea has its merits.
The people from other countries in the EU that are resident here are able to vote on Sept 18th. Will they vote to remain in the UK and risk being thrown out of the country or will they vote for Scotland, a country that WANTS them here? Yes, the BBC has promoted Ukip so much they now have a seat in Scotland but from their own personal experience they will know they are valued as part of Scotland.
Tom,
Not sure what you are saying there, a bit abstract.
caz-m says:
The poll is in the right hand column not very far from the top.
@John King et al
I heard the bbc Baillie quote “alicsammin hates the UK” quote as well – it was on both TV and radio. Baillie and the beeb should be asked to back up this quote with substance. It doesn’t exist. Typical bbc north british branch spin. Good message from Alex? Bookend it with piece of nastiness from the BT mob to taint the message.
PS – tweeted the Courier poll – thanks for the heads up.
@ Grouse Beater 08:15
re English Xenophobia
The French want no-one to be their superior. The English want inferiors. The Frenchman constantly raises his eyes above him with anxiety. The Englishman lowers his beneath him with satisfaction.
Journeys to England and Ireland (1835)
Alexis de Tocqueville
OT – Also in the Courier:
A public discussion on the Scottish referendum organised by Yes Kirkcaldy is to be filmed by Al Jazeera, the Arabic TV channel.
O/T
Royal United Services Institute reports that the UK has spent £34 Billion on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and branded them as “strategic failures”.
link to presstv.ir
I am concerned that Coburn will make such an arse of himself on behalf of Scotland in the EU, that he will drag down the whole Scots effort.
Which of course may be his sole purpose for being!
caz-m says:
27 May, 2014 at 9:42 am
O/T
That £34 billions was only the variable cost, and not the cost of having all the equipment bought and the cost of the troops wages. The logic is that these fixed costs would have been necessary whether we had fought the wars or not.
I reckon that makes Scotland’s saving would have been £3 billions plus.
Re the bbc – remember the new newsnicht with Sarah Smith starts tonight. I will be watching with interest to see if her union underwear will be on show 😉
When will people understand EBC is a arm of government (UK). The YES campaign can contact the EBC/MSM till they are blue in the face but EBC does not have to broadcast it. EBC is a propaganda organ of the state. They are neither fare or honest and ar’nt ment to be they will not change so don’t be surprised at anything they say. They are just part (a big part) of the corrupt Westminster propaganda machine. Lies damned lies and bile that is their stock in trade.
Panda
English Xenophobia
I remember a comment from a French actor, one who could never understand English jokes, preferring French wit instead. His English pal’s hat blew off his head and disappeared over a hedge.
His friend said, “Hell, I’ve lost my bloody hat. Oh well, nevermind. At least I’ve kept my head.”
His French companion replied, “Ah, so zat eez Eenglish humour. Now I understand.”
Grouse Beater
You going to the Counting House in Glasgow this Friday?
Bugger (the Panda)
You can buy an awful lot of school books for £3 Billion.
FFS, every time UK expenditure is looked into, there are £Billions of pounds to be saved in EVERY department. So much waste and overspend within UK. Scotland is getting ripped off left right and centre.
I’m still down after the election. Not because I fear any impact on the YES vote. Not because of any value to BT in this vote.
It is far more basic – I cannot believe my fellow Scots would align with such an openly racist party.
140,000 people living in Scotland listened to that poison being spewed out night after night and thought “just what we need”.
I don’t care if it was a protest vote. In fact I respect a protest vote if you retain your thinking process i.e. The Greens would have made the perfect choice for a 6th MEP
I hope those UKIP voters reflect long and hard on what they have announced to the world as their values.
It will have no impact on the referendum outcome but it will leave a stain on Scotland in that enough of us(Scots) voted to put a bigot in Europe as our representative.
Papadox 9.48am
SURELY the SNP press office have a direct line right into Pacific Quay to arrange interviews with the FM or other Scottish Government ministers.
Now can this same press officer not get in touch with BBC Scotland and tell them that the story they are running is a complete and utter lie and must be withdrawn immediately.
X Sticks
the new newsnicht with Sarah Smith starts tonight.
I don’t know about you but I am not impressed with the jokey nature of the trailer; exactly what is to be the tone of the programme, or is it the Sarah Smith Show?: Sarah gets her make up applied, Sarah walks down a corridor, Sarah smiles, Sarah goes to the …”
Personality presenters seem inappropriate on the occasion of an historic plebiscite.
@Tom Steele
“I think we must also recognise the possibility that some who voted for UKIP came from both the Yes and No camps who would rather see Britain/Scotland out of the EU and used this opportunity as a protest vote. A small number I grant you.”
That came third in a list I constructed yesterday of reasons why some non homophobic or non xenophobic people might vote for UKIP, but for some reason it wouldn’t post on Wings.
Re Ian Brotherhood
I’d be careful with that acronym BTUKOK in case of a typo 🙂
Chic
I think we must also recognise the possibility that some who voted for UKIP came from both the Yes and No camps who would rather see Britain/Scotland out of the EU and used this opportunity as a protest vote
It’s difficult for me to accept that any thinking person would vote for Ukip even as a protest vote. We appear to have reached the stage where folk vote for Hitler because he builds such great autobahns. Control of our nation’s affairs can’t come soon enough, as far as I am concerned.
Panda
You going to the Counting House in Glasgow this Friday?
Last occasion I assumed it the one in Edinburgh, near the uni – d’oh! Don’t think I can make it though I’d like to say hello to all.
By the way are Blair McDougall and David Coburn related in any way? They look awfully similar.
Clootie
Cheer up. Just think how funny it will be once Scotland votes Yes. No more UK to become independent of the EU. And how funny will it be for Coburn to defend unionism at the same time as campaigning for independence. What party will he be representing? I’m not sure if UKIP strategists have thought this one through fully. 🙂
@caz-m says: 10:04 am
Who are you going to complain to if they do nothing? MSM/HMG/UN? I agree with your sentiment but it ain’t going to happen.
I got that a bit muddled but I hope you get the drift.
@Giving Goose –
Indeed, the casual deployment of acronyms is a dangerous game – in this case, a game of two halves (and we all know what two halves make). Of one thing we can be sure – Alistair Darling is at the centre of it all.
@MajorBloodnok –
They’ve never been spotted together. One way to distinguish between them would be to find out what instrument Coburn plays. Looks to me like a comb and Izal man….brrooowwooot!
Grouse Beater
“It’s difficult for me to accept that any thinking person would vote for Ukip even as a protest vote. We appear to have reached the stage where folk vote for Hitler because he builds such great autobahns. Control of our nation’s affairs can’t come soon enough, as far as I am concerned.”
I agree. But then not everyone is a ‘thinking person’.
I reckoned the top reason for those who don’t hold with UKIP’s more repugnant views but who still voted for them to ‘send a message’ is likely to have been those who would seek to damage the indy campaign by stopping the SNP getting that third seat.
I reckoned second place would probably be those doing so to give the main Westminster parties a kicking. BTW I think (and hope) a lot of UKIP support in England was for that reason as well.
@Clootie
Don’t let it get you down Clootie. Bear in mind it is 140k sphincters out of 5.5million, so hardly a spit in the ocean. Unless we resorted to ukip policies we’ll always have some sphincters in the country and maybe we need some to remind the rest of us how to be civilised 😉
@Grouse Beater
Yeah, I know what you mean, and I do not have high hopes about the new format or presenters. I will reserve judgement until I’ve seen for myself. Sarah was good on C4, but then the news was London/international. Whether she can overcome her establishment upbringing (dyed in the wool establishment) and give a fair crack of the whip remains to be seen. I kinda doubt it though. I suspect she, like Naughtie, has been brought in to ‘do a job’.
Yes acronyms can be traps for the unwary.
When I was a student the Tories had to change the name of their student umbrella body from “Federation Of Conservative and Unionist Associations” if my memory holds.
Ian
Alistair Darling is at the centre of it all.
Labour MP Hamilton, creator of the 40% devolution rule, electorate dead or alive, disappeared from public view once his anti-democratic ruse won the day for those who wish Scotland kept docile. One wonders where Darling will scuttle to after the Referendum.
@Major
“By the way are Blair McDougall and David Coburn related in any way? They look awfully similar.”
Mark Coburn just cycled 1500 miles to raise money for the Yes campaign, the other one looks like he would struggle to cycle 1500 feet.
@Ian Brotherhood
You’re right, but to my mind David Coburn has the look of a flugelhorn player, whatever that is.
However, apparently there is a hybrid instrument called a fluba, which I have just learned of, although its genesis in this context is too distressing to contemplate.
“In the 2009 European elections, UKIP got 16.5% of the vote in the UK as a whole, and 5.2% in Scotland – a gap of 11.3%. In this year’s election the tallies were 27.5% in the UK and 10.5% in Scotland – a gap of 17%”
Or, alternatively, you could say that the Ukip vote in Scotland has increased by 50%, whereas in the UK as a whole its only gone up by 40%.
And Scotland is (currently) still part of the UK, so you can’t really compare Scotland’s percentages to the UK’s percentages, since the former are included in the latter.
Surely you should be comparing Scotland’s percentages to England’s?
‘Or, alternatively, you could say that the Ukip vote in Scotland has increased by 50%, whereas in the UK as a whole its only gone up by 40%.”
You could say that, but it would be totally meaningless as you don’t get elected based on how much your vote’s gone up, you get elected based on how much of the total vote you get. And you’d probably find that as such, people would question your motives for saying it.
“In other words, despite all the bluster from Unionists about how Scotland can no longer claim to be different to the rest of the UK in terms of supporting Nigel Farage’s party”
The fact that more Scots voted for right wing parties than voted for the SNP certainly puts to bed any claims that Scotland is uniquely left wing and doesn’t ‘do’ right wing.
Chic
is likely to have been those who would seek to damage the indy campaign by stopping the SNP getting that third seat.
Could well be right, I hope so – I need something to wash the bad taste from my mouth!
The irony is, it was the Tory’s (a different sort from the unreconstructed Thatcherites we know) that first agreed upon Home Rule as appropriate for Scotland, although many Scots thought the conditions attached inferior to that offered to Ireland.
And it was Gladstone, a Liberal PM, who supported the Bill, ultimately defeated by the UK parliament.
In the next few months up to the September vote, we are going to have UKIP and the SNP linked in the same phrase – a la Mags ‘furriners’ Curren.
The BBC/Brit establishment will now turn against Farage – after al they made him, as his job is now done – all parties will move to the right.
We are going to have more of ‘it’s the English voters which hold the balance in the indy ref vote’, in order to turn us against each other.
It works easily, only the other day, the Green and SNP voters were blaming each other for letting in UKIP.
We must keep the heid – don’t let them divide us, it’s what they want.
BTW, I despise Labour, Scottish branch.
Grouse Beater
The Labour MP was George Cunningham, don’t know if he devised the 40% rule or just had that bit of the legislation pushed through in his name Whatever, it was the complete Labour Government who passed it and are therefore collectively guilty.
Cunningham fairly soon after left to join the LibDems or SDP or whatever incarnation it called itself then. He disappeared into nonentity after that.
Duggie
The rUK’s 2009 percentage support for UKIP, must have been higher than the UK’s 16.5%, as this average will have been lowered with the inclusion of Scotland’s low 5.2% support. No?
Duggie
If you wish to contribute sensibly to this site you had better sharpen up as only 27.6% of the vote in Scotland went to right wing parties (and I doubt if the 10.4 who voted UKIP are all right wingers)
Duggie says: “The fact that more Scots voted for right wing parties than voted for the SNP certainly puts to bed any claims that Scotland is uniquely left wing and doesn’t ‘do’ right wing.”
SNP 29.0%
Lab 25.9%
Green 8.1%
LD 7.1%
Tories 17.2%
UKIP 10.5%
Others 2.3%
Duggie, I suppose your assertion holds if you count Labour, the Scottish Greens and the Lib-Dems as right wing parties.
(my numbers came from Wiki – there may be rounding issues).
And I should have added that over 50% of the vote in England went to right wing parties which represents as chasm of difference
In the event of a Yes vote and considering the costly “UK brand” implications, I believe what remains of the UK should continue to be called the “UK”.
It’s full name will be the Untied Kingdom.
Now, I just need to find a firm that specialises in country re-branding.
@ Liz, I have to say that as someone who does not have a twitter account nor Facebook, the one thing people should be careful of is someone suggesting you do something without thinking through the consequences. I noticed a few people here talking about voting Green in order to keep out Ukip, surely a moments thought should have persuaded them to think how that would work.
You are right though, we need to keep the heid and keep focused. We must not be divided or we are conquered and that is what the Establishment in Britain wants. Neither Farage or Salmond is on the paper in September it is Scotland or Greater Englandshire, the people have to choose.
O/T but hope you don’t mind Rev Stu.
For those having trouble connecting to Derek Bateman’s blogsite try this. Go to the Bella Caledonia site and scroll down the right-hand side, where you will find a link to DB. Now showing a piece from yesterday, complete wth comments, but don’t know if it will continue.
WOS still the best RevStu, don’t know how you do it!
Duggie
Comparing the entire right wing vote to the SNP vote is cherry picking, UKIP + Tory + BNP + B1st got 29% of the vote in Scotland.
Higher than I would like I’ll grant you but the political consensus in Scotland is still center left by miles.
Duggie,
For comparison rUK minus Scotland, the Tory + UKIP vote was 54%.
Duggie says: Or, alternatively, you could say that the Ukip vote in Scotland has increased by 50%, whereas in the UK as a whole its only gone up by 40%.
By that logic, if UKIP’s share went from 1% to 2% you’d be hailing it as a remarkable 100% increase.
I see the Courier referendum poll dissapeared very quickly 😀
John Beattie show asking incomers to Scotland how the referendum is affecting them and something about the Sarah Smith show too.
A lot of commentators obsessing over the differences, or lack of differences between Scotland and rUK. Can’t be bothered doing the calculation but could we say that when you add new Labour votes to Tory and LibDem votes, we can say that generally Scotland votes Neo liberal/Right wing economically?
Specious commentary like that is surely just a wind up. My interest is not so much where we are right now, politically, but where we are going. How different is Scotland to England, Germany, South Korea, or anywhere else in terms of voting preference, I don’t really care that much. Do I want Scotland to vote like England, or should I say, certain parts of England, in 10 years time? Eh, no.
So looking forward to the next BT photo op.
Ali, Ruthie, Johann, Willie and Nige.
Oh dang. 😀
As I suggested yesterday the destruction in the media of David Coburn as the political fanny he very obviously is has started already.
He has served his purpose in preventing the SNP or the Greens getting the third Scottish MEP and is now expendable.
Unintended consequence however is already very obviously in full flow and the establishment which colluded in UKIP promotion into Scotland are about to find out how their behaviour has contributed to a new determination by many Scots to vote YES in September.
crisiscult,
To be fair to Lib Dems and Labour almost every party and country in Europe including the SNP, support a capitalist economic model.
@Dave McEwan Hill
Regarding your latter point I spoke to an English left-leaning northern-solidarity definite NO colleague this morning and asked him (jocularly) whether he had been brooding over UKIP’s gains.
He immediately told me that he was seriously contemplating YES now (as a least worst option) because he knew fine well that Scottish votes don’t make any difference to the complexion of the UK government.
The penny is dropping…
This a shame-faced Welshman’s explanation for the 14% rise in UKIP’s vote in Wales.
1. The main reason has to be the fact that the vast majority here consume media produced in England, and that people have been force-fed a UKIP diet for weeks on end. I know that the bias shown against Scottish independence in the media in a Scotland is a constant refrain on this site-but at least you have got a nominally “Scottish” media in place! The lack of a proper Welsh media( we only have one “national” daily paper, The Western Mail, with sales at around 25,000) is one of the main problems facing our Welsh democracy at present. People here don’t actually know what is really going on in Wales, and without that level of involvement in Welsh affairs, people are easy prey for UKIP propaganda from English papers such as the Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express etc.
2. We also have to face up to the elephant in the room- that 25% of the people in Wales were actually born in England. With the Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems signed up for the devolution project, along with Plaid Cymru of course,it could be argued that UKIP are now providing a natural home for people who really want no truck with Wales at all, and who are still primarily attached to England. It seems to me that this group is growing in political confidence- even though Wales has had its own form of self-government for 15 years. It’s one reason that nationalists in Wales are maybe more concerned about immigration than our counterparts in Scotland. For example, people from England moving to Welsh-speaking areas and making no attempt to learn Welsh has also led to a significant fall in the percentages of Welsh-speakers in such areas over the past 30/40 years.
3. Labour’s poor governance in Wales is another reason, with people also voting UKIP to register their dissatisfaction with Labour’s record on health, education and the economy here. Labour seem content to run Wales as their own fiefdom- secure in the belief that they can not really be voted out, unless all the other parties get together in an unlikely coalition. This has led to a massive sense of complacency and worthiness, which is totally at odds with the real situation in our communities.
4.A poor performance by Plaid Cymru( losing 15,000 votes from 2009), even though the European seat was retained. Yes, of course Plaid had a huge problem getting its message across compared to the megaphone media attention given to UKIP. But, it was an uninspirational campaign, which did not really stand out in any way. No effort was made for example to link Wales with Scotland, and the revitalized grass-roots political awareness which the referendum campaign has sparked off in Scotland. That could have made Plaid’s campaign more distinctive and given people a sense that things could be different here in Wales as well.
It would seem to me that UKIP are going to be a force in Welsh politics for some time to come. The only consolation for nationalists is that they are now likely to challenge Labour in some of their heartlands as well, making it more possible for Plaid Cymru to win such three-way constituencies.
Not at all fair to claim Jackie Baillie doesn’t like people. She seems to mix very happily with the Cowal Conservative Ladies’ Lunch Club where she was recently guest speakers. Very at home amongst like-minded people.
I’m noticing a lot of people jumping off the fence to YES now as a result of the UKIP result, on my Facebook, in my work and among my friends, perhaps the best thing that has happened to the YES campaign.
on another note :
I’m taking the YES advert trailer out this afternoon to Stirling – i’m doing a reconnaissance mission of the Albert Halls, if anyone is in the vicinity please come out and see me.
please donate to the YES Scotland Advert Trailer Fundraiser
Thing about Coburn is he says the same stuff that Scottish Conservative voters say all the time, hate Salmond, ballly windmils ruining Scotland, cybernazi blighters, outrageous EU rules killing business, Scotland too poor and so on. I hear Coburn’s schtick ll the time up here in Aberdeen from wealthy old Conservatives and that’s why UKIP are here. UKIP are not daft and a lot of very vocal wealthy English people retire to Scotland with all that Thatcher/UKIP fun and games throbbing away between their ears.
@ Dave McEwan Hill
I know you live in Dunoonish but I fancy having a drink with you at the Counting House in St Vincent Place on Friday Night.
I am a guy, btw, so don’t panic.
BtP
Tomorrow’s Cardonald livestream has been postponed. Bummer.
@Cymru Rydd
No need for apologies my friend, I think most of us here are well aware of what you are up against in Wales.
We are still in shock at ukip getting a seat here in Scotland, but are hoping that it will ultimately help the Yes cause.
I think if we can get a Yes vote in Scotland it will hopefully galvanise the Welsh to move in the same direction. Many of us here will have more time and resources to join with you (at least online) to help your cause after September.
Good to get a view from the ground from you. Onward and upward!
I know how over the moon we all are with UKIP winning their first seat in Scotland. Well folks, our new UKIP M.E.P. has spoken. He has issued a statement concerning our need for immigration here in Scotland and here it is. ;P
link to tinyurl.com
SOT
Noticed a couple of claims on recent threads that the Greens needed less votes to stop UKIP than the SNP, a minor point, but I don’t think that is right.
By my reckoning the SNP (being 10,700 short of beating UKIP) would have required a top vote 32,100 more than they got, where as the Greens needed 32,230.
Apologies if this has already been pointed out.
@Lesley-Anne
Oh dear, Coburn appears to have been monstered by the Edinburgh Evening News.
“caz-m says:
27 May, 2014 at 9:06 am
Gerry parker
“The UKIP result pissed me off to such an extent I went out and delivered another 200 Yes papers last night. Was dying for a pro unionist encounter but didn’t meet a soul”.
I’LL be doing likewise tonight Gerry. Another 250 newspapers will be dropping through letterboxes tonight.
This little UKIP setback will now be turned on it’s head and used as another reason to get out of this rotten union.”
I like many others have posted, in total, hundreds of thousands of YES newspapers over the last year and has it done much?
I’m not saying give up, or they’re no use, what I’m saying is the message they’re carrying working?
I’ve been a bit frustrated of late delivering the YES newspapers with the oh so positive message on them, it’s about time some of the articles had a bit more negative and fear content in them.
Give them the scarestory headlines just at the right time. It seems to work for the no camp somewhat.
Time we came out fighting a bit.
Aye Major, the poor wee fella never even saw it coming. 😛
I wonder what his next *ahem* announcement will be about. 😉
@Lesley-Anne, Major
Looks like it could be rather fun having our own wee Skipper.
You know that wee question I asked in my last post Major, well you can forget trying to answer it cause our Nige’s representative in Scotland has already answered that question, the drug fuelled homophobic idiot that he is!
link to tinyurl.com
alexicon says: I agree what we need is a bit of scaremongering, well more like telling people what they are actually doing when they vote NO. Better Together are all for telling them what Independence will mean, though like everyone else they do not have a crystal ball but we can see the picture on the horizon if there is a No vote and it isn’t nice.
Yes, another thumbs up in the work this morning. Directly citing the Euro results and the thought of a very blue and purple 2015 as the deciding factor. 🙂
Who knew? 😀
I wonder what size the largest THANK YOU card is. I’m only pondering this cause I’m sure we’d all love to sign it on the 19th of September before we send it off to Brussels addressed to a certain Mr Farage. 😛
Damn I forgot to add that I hope we can send it FREE POST to Brussels. 😛
Major Bloodnok 10:58 says
“Duggie, I suppose your assertion holds if you count Labour, the Scottish Greens and the Lib-Dems as right wing parties.”
Well, the Greens aren’t certainly and the SNP is a slightly left of centre party, but considering this then he may be right.
link to politicalcompass.org
Just because a voter thinks a party may be “left wing” doesn’t make it true.
@Lesley-Anne
That you winding up our new ukip toy on twitter – lol 😀
You’re a very naughty girl, but I like it!
@alexicon.
I was a wee bit disappointed with this issue too, thought it would have more meat in it. I’ve been slipping in “Aye Right” cards that Patrician gave me.
One more issue before the referendum, I hope they can make it a goodie.
Who…ME…wind someone up…anyone up…even our utterly fantastic UKIP M.E.P. …NAH think you’ve got me confused with some one else X Sticks. 😉
Here is that information in Courier.
link to thecourier.co.uk
I don’t think some people in Scotland quite got the message on Sunday night. We are better together, our Nige says it is so so it must be so! Looks like the message hasn’t reached the Scottish Borders Council yet thank goodness. 😉
link to tinyurl.com
@ pmcrek
Hi. I was thinking more of the Milton Friedman type model that the Tories since the 80s and Labour since the 90s have subscribed to. If political compass have it right, then the Greens and SNP are the only mainstream parties (are Scottish socialists mainstream?) left of centre.
Whether people on this website agree with that or not, I would think they will agree that this obsession of the media with trying to gain traction with listeners/readers that Scotland is not different from rUK is pretty meaningless, unless the message they want us to accept is that we shouldn’t be so narcissistic in thinking that somehow we can get better than what we’re currently getting. In other words, belt up Jocks, you’re going down with the rest of us, so just accept that it’s actually what you want anyway.
Im pretty depressed by the UKIP result in Scotland,however im out canvassing on thursday and im sure the result will be mentioned on the doorstep.
My English friend,who has been in scotland 2 years, told me last week she is a NO “and you wont change me either”.But she is also anti UKIP , and was worried they would do really well in Euro elections.
I think I might work on her a bit now!
The Borders coming out for YES. YES, there is hope for us all. Well done Mr David Parker.
Peebleshire close to a lot of hearts. Impressive.
Nigel Farage.
Member of the EU Fisheries Committee for 3 years.
The Committee had 42 meetings in that period.
Nigel Farage attended 1 – that’s one, out of forty two.
Well, you can’t really blame him – Nigel’s more of a pie ‘n a pint man. Probably doesn’t like fish.
By the way. Nigel draws £78,000 p.a. as an MEP.
link to anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk
link to ibtimes.co.uk
link to theguardian.com
During a debate about Europe at the Foreign Press Association, Farage was asked what he had received in non-salary expenses and allowances since becoming an MEP in 1999.
“It is a vast sum,” Farage said. “I don’t know what the total amount is but – oh lor – it must be pushing £2 million.”
Farage insisted that he had not “pocketed” the money but had used the “very large sum of European taxpayers’ money” to help promote Ukip’s message that the UK should get out of the EU.
2 million quid in expenses in ten years – to help promote the UKIP message that the UK should get out of the EU.
To the 140,534 people in Scotland who voted for UKIP, I hope you don’t make the same choice again.
To Scotland’s voters in the Referendum –
Buy a ticket for the YES to Independence train.
Tear up your ticket for the Tory, Labour,
Lib Dem, UKIP Gravy train.
P.S.
David Coburn,
of uncertain address,
with very limited abilities
but shed loads of attitude,
has lived in London for 20years,
stands for UKIP in the Scottish EU elections,
gets 140,534 votes,
is now a voice for Scotland
in the European Parliament,
on an annual salary of £73,000
plus pension,
plus annual expenses of anything around £200,000.
This is an alarm bell.
WAKE UP !!
Vote Yes.
UKIP have had an easy ride. They cream the EU for expenses and absolutely no work. That and their propensity to say outrageous, inaccurate and offensive things will ensure that the Scottish media will have a ready made (and not inconsiderable) target in Coburn.
It will be entertaining watching Murdo and Anas and Severin defend their poster boy.
A very good point by Roger Scully, showing that the gap has actually grown. Though to look at the front page of the Express, you’d have thought Nigel Farage, was a certainty to become the next FM of Scotland.
link to express.co.uk
What a lying conniving little shit rag the Express newspaper has become.
Annie Lennox pictured with the Union flag, make of it what you will.
link to express.co.uk
Given that you regularly criticise others for a cavalier use of statistics, you should be careful with figures. Frankly your statistics are mince.
The ratio of UK:Scottish votes for UKIP was about 3.2 in the last election. It was about 2.5 last week. So the gap has narrowed.
I await the retraction.
Sorry I forgot to add that we are all under the misconception that pro Independent websites will answer all our prayers. They help, but the sooner we all realise they won’t do it all the better.
Too many people, including the YES campaign, are resting on their laurels in this respect and there’s no use anyone moaning about unionist corruption, lying leaflets etc. after the effect, the job will have been done. whereas we all should have been out there countering these tactics before they take place. Strike first.
I hope this is a wake up call for many, especially the YES campaign leaders.
@Phil Robertson – link please..
It still looks pretty different to me – even on the BBC. link to bbc.co.uk
I found this info-graphic quite informative.
link to infogr.am
Phil Robertson darling, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? Is it that Scotland has a few gullible people?
Oh look thankfully I have run out of my twenty free reads of the telegraph
I so refuse to pay a subscription to the paper that might result in 1p of my money paying the wage of this man
So I won’t be able to read the rabid foaming ranting drivel of Alan Cochrane
Petulant Nats cant face up to their role in boosting Ukip
But there’s an idea of what the article contains – probably just as well for my blood pressure that I can’t read it 🙂
I do think we really ought to have more police patrolling Alex’s area, that man is exhibiting hatred bordering on deranged
Croompenstein – there is no link, the figures are all in the post at the top of the page.
It states “the degree of difference has substantially increased, by a whopping 55%” trying to make the point that support for UKIP in Scotland has become relatively less last week when compared with the previous Euro election.
If you do the arithmetic properly, the figures used Rev Campbell indicate the opposite. Relative support for UKIP has, in fact, increased.
The point (Paula Rose) is you should not claim something when even your own statistics indicate the opposite. It’s got something to do with honesty.
Oh I see – you agree that the difference has substantially increased, but not by as much as 55%. I’m sure someone will be along soon to explain it to us non-statisticians.
“Paula Rose says:
27 May, 2014 at 8:19 pm
Oh I see – you agree that the difference has substantially increased, but not by as much as 55%”
No, the difference has substantially decreased. The final sentence summarising the post is wrong.
Phil Robertson
“Substantially decreased”? Please see my previous post.
Phil darling – a 17% difference seems to me to be substantially more than 11.3%, wouldn’t you agree?
There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
Numbers are easily twisted any way you want when you start using percentages and making spurious comparisons.
How about this one?
The UKIP vote in Scotland is up by 102% – in the UK it’s up by “just” 67%.
This really was a pointless post Rev – just one more example of you, erm, “preaching” to the converted.
Spin it any way you want but UKIP’s popularity in Scotland has more than doubled, despite Mr Salmond’s boast that the SNP would freeze UKIP out of Scottish politics (and the SNP would have 3 MEPs).
Sad, very sad indeed. But true nonetheless.
“The UKIP vote in Scotland is up by 102% – in the UK it’s up by “just” 67%.”
If you’re going to troll, at least troll on stuff that hasn’t already been answered in the thread, eh?
You get seats based on your share of the vote, not on how much you increased your OWN vote by. Otherwise you could get a single vote one year, then get five votes the next year and be guaranteed a seat because you’d gone up 400%.
Comparing how much UKIP’s vote, as opposed to vote SHARE, increased is just idiotic. We don’t have much tolerance for idiots around here, so mind how you go.
Erm, real maths shows that in 2009, 31.5% of UKIP voters were Scottish. And this year, 38.1% of UKIP voters were Scottish. And whilst I’m doing GCSE maths even the stated 55% is 10% too high (or 5%, whichever proves your point better since most people don’t understand maths anyway). You’d be in uproar if statistics this bad were on a pro unionist website.
“Erm, real maths shows that in 2009, 31.5% of UKIP voters were Scottish. And this year, 38.1% of UKIP voters were Scottish.”
Eh? Don’t talk such utter pish.
2014 UKIP VOTES
UK – 4,352,051
Scotland – 140,534
140,000 isn’t 38% of 4.3 million, you ridiculous arse. It’s 3.2%.
“If you wish to contribute sensibly to this site you had better sharpen up as only 27.6% of the vote in Scotland went to right wing parties”
You missed out the 2.3% who voted for the BNP, No2EU, and ‘Britain First’ (I’m assuming the latter are right wing).
In total, including the Tories and Ukip, that makes 30% of the vote for right wing parties – which is more than voted for the SNP.
Duggie – your point is?
Come on Duggie the SNP polled the highest number of votes and this after seven (yes seven) years in Government, absolutely phenomenal result and I’m sure you will give credit where it’s due 😀
My point is it is a fantasy that Scotland is uniquely different from the rest of the UK in regards to voting for right wing parties and its attitudes towards the UK.
It certainly is less eurosceptic and less right wing than other areas of the UK, but certainly not to any great extent.
Of course its obvious why the SNP like to portray Scotland as being a nation of EU lovers – because they think that somehow justifies their plan to force Scotland to become an EU member after a yes vote without giving the people of Scotland our democratic sovereign right to have a say on that issue.
“Come on Duggie the SNP polled the highest number of votes and this after seven (yes seven) years in Government, absolutely phenomenal result and I’m sure you will give credit where it’s due”
Indeed. The SNP have done very well to keep getting people to vote for them.
By comparison, after 7 years in power in the UK, Labour got 22.6% of the UK vote in the 2004 European elections, so the SNP’s 28.9% certainly compares well.
“Come on Duggie the SNP polled the highest number of votes and this after seven (yes seven) years in Government, absolutely phenomenal result and I’m sure you will give credit where it’s due”
Indeed. The SNP have done very well to keep getting people to vote for them.
By comparison, after 7 years in power in the UK, Labour got 22.6% of the UK vote in the 2004 European elections, so the SNP’s 28.9% certainly compares well.
Duggie dear – I think you’d better get your act together and do some homework, I suggest the ‘New readers start here’ page might be a good place to start, otherwise you are going to look very silly and we don’t want that do we?
“You could say that, but it would be totally meaningless as you don’t get elected based on how much your vote’s gone up”
My apologies. Given that you yourself are talking about how much the SNP’s number of voters went up in the election over on the ‘kiss of death’ I thought it was okay to discuss how much other party’s votes went up too.
“My apologies. Given that you yourself are talking about how much the SNP’s number of voters went up in the election over on the ‘kiss of death’ I thought it was okay to discuss how much other party’s votes went up too.”
In the specific context of refuting the Times’s claim that it hadn’t. And that was about numbers of votes, not percentages. You’re really starting to try my patience.
“Duggie dear – I think you’d better get your act together and do some homework”
What do I apparently need to do some ‘homework’ on, in your opinion?
Duggie dear – here might be one…
“Of course its obvious why the SNP like to portray Scotland as being a nation of EU lovers – because they think that somehow justifies their plan to force Scotland to become an EU member after a yes vote without giving the people of Scotland our democratic sovereign right to have a say on that issue.”
Yes, we’d like to make that decision for ourselves – in Scotland, not have it decided for us – as it could be if we remain in the UK.
“Yes, we’d like to make that decision for ourselves – in Scotland, not have it decided for us”
Presumably therefore you’re strongly opposed to the SNP’s plan to force Scotland to become an EU member after a yes vote, despite not having a mandate to do so, and without giving the people of Scotland any opportunity whatsoever to make a decision on that issue?
Yawn – as opposed to another party’s plan to force us out? When we are Independent we will democratically decide such matters for ourselves. You really are being rather silly dear.
“Yawn – as opposed to another party’s plan to force us out?”
What other party is planning to force us out? Even Ukip would give us a referendum first.
I see you’re yet another SNP follower who pretends to believe in democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people, but is quite happy to actively support your party’s plans to override our democratic rights.
“When we are Independent we will democratically decide such matters for ourselves”
No we won’t. The SNP are planning to force Scotland to become an EU member (and Nato member and form a currency union), before the next election, without giving us any democratic decision whatsoever, and without having a mandate to do so.
“No we won’t. The SNP are planning to force Scotland to become an EU member”
Oh FFS. We’re ALREADY IN THE EU.
Funny isn’t it – we’re already in those things, when we have a GE we can elect parties according to their manifestos. Where do you get your silly ideas from?
Oh and btw dear I’m not a member of the SNP – which party do you support?
“we’re already in those things”
Scotland isn’t a member of either the EU or Nato, and it isn’t in a currency union with a separate state.
“when we have a GE we can elect parties according to their manifestos”
No we can’t, the SNP are planning to force us into those things before the next election.
“Where do you get your silly ideas from?”
What exactly is ‘silly’ about the idea that the people of Scotland have a democratic sovereign right to have a say on whether we want Scotland to become an EU and Nato member and form a currency union with a separate state?
“We’re ALREADY IN THE EU”
Correct. Where did I suggest otherwise?
As you’re well aware, Scotland is not currently a member of the EU, it is PART of an EU member state called the UK.
Even that Irish minister whose views the SNP put such stock in last year admitted that going from being part of a member state to being a member state in our own right would result in our EU status being “somewhat different” to the status we have currently.
No one who believes in democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people would deny that we have a democratic right to decide whether we want Scotland to become an EU member state.
Duggie
Lets cut to the chase. Do you think Scotland is a country and do you think countries should govern themselves?
Here’s some factual stuff for you to digest Duggie…
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
“Do you think Scotland is a country and do you think countries should govern themselves?”
Yes and yes, which is why I support independence.
As you’ll see from my previous comments, I also support democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people, which is why I don’t support the SNP’s plan to override our democratic rights and force us into EU/Nato membership and a currency union after a yes vote, without giving us a say and despite not having a mandate to do so.
“You get seats based on your share of the vote, not on how much you increased your OWN vote by. Otherwise you could get a single vote one year, then get five votes the next year and be guaranteed a seat because you’d gone up 400%.
Comparing how much UKIP’s vote, as opposed to vote SHARE, increased is just idiotic. We don’t have much tolerance for idiots around here, so mind how you go.”
Rather a rude response Rev surely? Why didn’t you just delete my post if you felt so strongly about it. It’s your blog after all?
Sorry if you felt I was trolling but I was just pointing out what I believed to be the pointlessness of your post. It seems I’m not entitled to an opinion?
How about I put it in simple terms for you?
Compare last time – no UKIP MEPs from Scotland – with this time – one UKIP MEP from Scotland. Get it now?
There you go – hopefully you’ll be able to understand that without taking a hairy LOL
I feel you’re actually doing good work with your arguments for the “yes” campaign – just that this particular post was a bit pointless.
Apologies if I touched a nerve enough for you to accuse me of trolling – I suppose, judging from all the other congratulatory comments on here maybe I came a cross as being a bit too negative, somhhting this site doesn’t really see that often but accusing me of being a troll and an idiot is a bit much don’t you think?
I’m afraid that reflects rather more badly on you than it does on me.
I will continue to pop by though to see how things are going.
Cheers
“Apologies if I touched a nerve enough for you to accuse me of trolling”
Actually, screw the warning. That line’ll do it.
Duggie
Lad to hear it and I did try to be careful with mt question. 😉
Glad, doh.
Duggie – campaign for an Independent Scotland and then for the party that best reflects your views on what you think is best for Scotland. That is the way things will work, we want to join the world not retreat into isolation.
I put it a bit more earthly. Which do you do first, unzip or pee? Each to their own though, so long as we get over the line. 🙂
Duggie – I feel for you.
You’re facing an uphill battle on here if you try and put across any view contrary to that of the Rev and his acolytes – even if you’re a supporter of the “yes” campaign.
I was accused of being a troll and an idiot and you are trying the Rev’s patience.
It seems what started as a good idea (WOS) has become entrenched in self congratulatory belief of its own hype – to the detriment of the independence debate.
Maybe, just maybe though, the contributors can try and get things back on an even keel.
I look forward to more of your posts.
And to the Rev maybe just calming himself down a wee bit LOL
“You’re facing an uphill battle on here if you try and put across any view contrary to that of the Rev and his acolytes – even if you’re a supporter of the “yes” campaign.”
You’re exactly wrong. I’ve got no time for stupid whether it’s on my side or the other side. You’re both officially warned.
“Yes and yes, which is why I support independence.” (Duggie)
But you are voting No because you hate the SNP right?
The SNP’s 389,500 votes is only 9.48% of the 4.1Million entitled to vote in Scotland’s referendum.
@morgan – What is with the SNP obsession? the referendum is not about the SNP
Seems the post EU election rain has brought out all the wee bugs.
“You’re both officially warned”
What am I warned for?
An infestation of sympathy trolls?
Explain UKIP hate to me please!
Hi,
I stumbled across this site as part of my educational reading in prep for making an informed yes/no vote later this and I have a question.
There are a lot of anti UKIP comments here such as “Chic McGregor says: “It’s difficult for me to accept that any thinking person would vote for Ukip” and Cindie says ” couldn’t believe that over 7000 people voted for UKIP. I was shocked and disgusted, I still am.
I think the rationale on why people are voting for UKIP is very very clear, even if you do not agree with it, it is no secret…. but….
Can someone explain to me in a succinct manner why UKIP policy is not aligned with a scottish Yes vote?
And, probably linked, is the YES vote toally aligned with staying in the EU? Or is there an argument for a YES vote, but for leaving the EU?
I’d really appreciate reading explanations for the above, not everyone is as politically savvy as this sites demographic but I’m looking to wise-up before voting 🙂
Thanks in advance.
“Can someone explain to me in a succinct manner why UKIP policy is not aligned with a scottish Yes vote?
And, probably linked, is the YES vote totally aligned with staying in the EU? Or is there an argument for a YES vote, but for leaving the EU?”
The two things aren’t inherently linked. It’s perfectly possible and legitimate to want an independent Scotland to leave the EU. People’s antipathy towards UKIP is based on their attitudes to immigration and a host of other issues, but as the main party opposed to EU membership anyone holding that view tends to get associated with UKIP.
“Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
27 May, 2014 at 9:54 pm
Eh? Don’t talk such utter pish.”
Before slagging off other people’s maths you should check your own figures. The statement “the degree of difference has substantially increased, by a whopping 55%” is, on the evidence of your own figures, factually wrong. The degree of difference has narrowed significantly.