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Friendly Help For Jeremy

Posted on July 21, 2017 by

From today’s Daily Record:

Have you spotted Kindly Uncle Jez’s mistake, readers?

Let’s try to explain it to him. We’ll use short words and speak slowly.

Dear Jeremy,

Here’s how many votes you’re currently short of being PM: 28

Here’s how many you’d be short if you took those 18 seats from the SNP: 28

Here’s how many you’d be short if you took the 13 the Tories have instead: 15

15 is less than 28. Maybe try joining the dots, eh?


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  1. 21 07 17 10:56

    Friendly Help For Jeremy | speymouth

  2. 21 07 17 16:05

    I Wish I Could Understand It | A Wilderness of Peace

108 to “Friendly Help For Jeremy”

  1. Macart

    The simplest and shortest message is often the best. 🙂

  2. Giesabrek

    The stupidity of everyone involved in creating and reporting this story is mind-boggling!

  3. Daniel

    If he took the 13 from the tories, wouldn’t that be a difference of 26 (-13 tories +13 labour)?

  4. Lollysmum

    Oh dear- Corbyn went to the same school for maths tuition as Dugdale. Sad really ?

  5. ScotsNat

    Corbyns a weekend warrior millionaire. Its all an act and he’s an attension vampire. Another Westminster parasite.

  6. SandyW

    Labour forgot long ago who the real enemy are. Sad.

  7. tartanfever

    Wow, only 28 ‘VOTES’ short of becoming PM !

    Slight typo ?

  8. Giesabrek

    And to add, this continues to show who Labour regard as the real enemy in Scotland – not the most right-wing, damaging and incompetent Tory party ever but the left of centre, inclusive SNP. It really is the union at any and all costs for Labour and to hell with those in need.

  9. Bilious

    I may have missed something, but if the Tories lost 13, and Labour gained 13, wouldn’t he be 2 short rather than 15?

  10. Lisa

    Unionist to the core. His act isn’t fooling anyone, or should I say anyone north of the border with 2 or more firing neurons?

  11. Street Andrew

    The eternal problem in the Labour Party is that although they have always had some progressive policies there is a rump of Labourites and always was of the ‘hangers and floggers’. The social conservatives.

    Had Labour been part of the Progressive Alliance movement in the run up to the 2017 GE Corbyn could have been PM.

    Stubborn and stupid.

  12. Bryan Weir

    Sadly, many more of the people who are likely to believe this read the Daily Record than Wings Over Scotland.

  13. Peter McCulloch

    I don’t think it is as stupid as it sounds coming from Corbyn.

    As long as he can con enough people in Scotland into believing that taking those 18 SNP seats will get him into No10,then job done as far as he’s concerned.

    He will have reduced the SNP’s influence at Westminster and that’s all that matters.

    And when he still doesn’t get the keys to No10 he can then lay the blame on those Blairites in Labour who are opposed him being leader.

  14. Muscleguy

    It is of course a standard Labour insult to the intelligence of the voters. They clearly think our heids zip up the back.

  15. mike d

    Aye there are no fools like Scottish fools. If they fall for this ‘labour will look after the workers again sh**e”.

  16. galamcennalath

    The priority for all Unionists is to maintain the Union and the SNP, they perceive, is the biggest threat to their Union. Tory or Labour, they don’t care as long as it’s not SNP.

    You would have thought Corbyn might have been keener on the pursuit of the PMship. Nope, their Union must be defended at all costs, including not getting to form a government.

    The new Tory and Labour Scottish MPs have one role only, to sit in a seat in the corner and shut up. They must say nothing and do nothing, and they must definitely never ever do anything for Scotland. They must never be seen as representing Scotland, because it’s very existence must be played down.

  17. Wulls

    I recently rediscovered a word I hadn’t used for a while….. Cretin.
    It’s a great word which perfectly describes the intellect of anyone in Labour who still call themselves socialists but attack the SNP instead of the Tories.
    It particularly describes the current leader of Scottish labour, the last leader of Scottish labour and many of their MPs and MSPs.
    lovely word.

  18. Ken500

    Corbyn is a treat to Democracy in Scotland.

    Voted through or abstained every Tory measures in the Westminster unionist Parliament. When they could have brought the Tories down. Still determined to subordinate Democracy in Scotland. Rather than get rid of the Tories in Westminster. Supporting the Tories in every way. Cutting public services, NHS/Education. Wasting £Billions on Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident and Heathrow. Supporting Brexit. Corbyn is a treat to the Scottish economy and democracy. Along with the rest of the unionists.

    Scotland has already got what Corbyn promises and more. Unionist more broken promises. If some voters in Scotland fall for it. Short memories. They never learn. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. £Trns in debt. Now Brexit wasting £Billions more. The Unionists at Westminster. Unelected Scottish representation. The Tories affront to democracy.

  19. Artyhetty

    Has Jezza got nothing better to do with his time! Are they planning another GE soon?

    Just cannot abide these WM british nationalists stomping up to Scotland to tell people how to vote.
    He needs to deal with what’s happening in England, the state of the ENHS, the crisis in social care,
    dreadful acid attacks on people, maybe even challenge the tories on their disgusting attacks on the most vulnerable, sick and disabled, or on the tories’ barbaric practise of deporting vulnerable people. But no, he is imposing himself on Scotland once again. You lost Jezza, and England needs you!

    Scotland has the SNP to stand up for Scotland. Imagine if his party were at the helm in Scotland, actually, don’t, it’s far too scary.

  20. Fergus Green

    Methinks Corbyn is more comfortable with 13 Tory MPs in Scotland than with these seats being held by the SNP. He is a unionist control freak and a cowardly Brexiteer to boot.

    So there!

  21. manandboy

    As David Davis and the Uk’s Brexit efforts clearly show, in contrast to the massive investment of time, energy and money the Tories /Unionists have poured into the last three Scottish elections – GE, Holyrood and Council – their priority is saving their Scottish colony.

    As for Corbyn and what is happening in England and Wales, that’s a different story.

    As for Scottish Independence, since Indy14, it has become pretty obvious that Scotland is not as Scottish as we thought. The Saltire is heavily soiled with the Union’s colours.

    But on we go. Vote SNP, join the SNP, and let your voice be heard. Oh, and stop funding British propaganda – stop watching live TV and save £145.

  22. Jockanese Wind Talker

    100% on the money both of you:

    @Peter McCulloch says at 9:37 am

    “He will have reduced the SNP’s influence at Westminster and that’s all that matters.”


    @galamcennalath says at 9:45 am

    “The priority for all Unionists is to maintain the Union and the SNP, they perceive, is the biggest threat to their Union. Tory or Labour, they don’t care as long as it’s not SNP.”

    This is what should be focusing the mind at the moment.

    Brexit can tick along, wait for Oct 2018 and SNP will intervene with statements etc. as required.

    It can be seen now in the Establishments Propagandists BBC/MSM undermine May make the Tories look incompetent on Crime, Grenfell etc., make Corbyn and Labour look competent and electable.

    What a difference in the message they gave prior to the Snap GE.

    STV for one have been giving a ‘rose tinted’ 20th Anniversary of Devolution thanks to ‘Great & Benevolent’ Labour (in a veiled weren’t they great? Look what they did for Scotland as soon as they got into No. 10, etc. etc.) every night this week.

    And it is all to do with reducing the SNPs WM seats at the next GE (and Holyrood if we aren’t free by 2021).

    Maintain the Union at ALL costs.

    They have to maintain this narrative of the SNP losing seats because Scotland doesn’t want a “2nd Divisive IndyRef (Yoony Trade Mark)”

    Because they can’t risk losing a 2nd Indy Ref to us.

    The Union needs Scotland as it’s cash cow.

    No Scotland means additional energy, food, water etc. insecurity for England, Wales and NI following Brexit.

  23. donald anderson

    What’s the use of voting Labour?
    They are Tories in Disguise.
    What’s the use of voting Brit left?
    When they think they are taking us for a RISE?

    See the National’s Long Letter today for the co convenor of the residual SSP’s argument for fake Yessers to vote Labour. Wot next, vote Tory?

  24. Capella

    @ Bilious 9.29 – I think you have a point. Makes Corbyn’s SNP attack look even sillier.

  25. Normski

    Corbyn’s plan is not an arithmetic fail; it makes perfect sense if you understand that he is working with other Unionist parties to minimise the number of SNP MPs – and thus make it more difficult for Scotland to gain its independence.

    From Corbyn’s point of view – winning a UK election without Scotland would be the most pyrrhic of victories.

  26. AndyH

    Yeah, lets see how that turns out for them.

    Lets just chill and watch the Brexit bonfire he supports.

    Old man Corbyn is like the chairman of the local bowling club. Which is his natural level.

  27. crazycat

    @ tartanfever at 9.27

    Votes = votes in the House of Commons (to command the confidence of the House)

  28. Tam the Bam.

    Looks like its time to summon the services of our local
    (Glasgow) Indy town crier again…

    “People of Glasgow….bow down to your Imperial Masters!”

    GTF Corbyn.

  29. Dan Huil

    Corbyn is just another british nationalist. An enemy of Scotland.

  30. Dr Jim

    All my life Labour have demanded the power to change things and then when they got that power what did they do with that power… nothing!

    They sat on it and milked it for everything they could get out of it and not put into it

    I’m afraid the folk who think Obi Wan Corbyn will be their only hope are either too young to realise what Labour are or are too old to change their bad habit

    Anyway If Inglind votes for a hat full of frogs that’s what Scotland will get, have none of these people worked that out yet after 300 years

    The Unionists have, that’s why they don’t particularly care which Unionist branch you vote for as long as it’s one of them, even Rennies lot as long as it removes Scotlands own power from Scotlands people and deposits it where they think it should be

    In Inglind

    Now why would anyone in Scotland with half a brain want that, think of a whole load of James Kellys and Anas Sarwars running our country


  31. Jockanese Wind Talker

    They probably are @Artyhetty says at 10:09 am

    “Has Jezza got nothing better to do with his time! Are they planning another GE soon?”

    I think there will be.

    Definitely prior to Spring 2019 in an attempt to neuter the SNP and get >50% of Scotland’s MPs as Unionist(on the usual “No Surrender to Referendums” Policy.

    My guess though is probably within the next 6 Months, for the reason stated above and:

    Either to replace May with a Brexiteer Hardliner to continue the jump off the cliff, or just after the jump if they walk away before the end of the year (think of it like Cameron after EU Ref).


    To install the Red Tories in a ‘Stop Brexit we want to get off’ move when the reality bites.

    Either way the Bookies were giving 5/1 on a 2017 GE, 11/4 on 2018 and 5/2 on 2019, 12/1 on 2020 and 2021 and 7/2 on 2022 (when it should be due).

    So 2018 or 2022 seem to be what they think.

    I can’t see the current shambolic WM Govt. lasting ’til 2022 personally.

  32. Thorkel Crighton

    Beware of red tory unionists like Corbyn, him and his kind are every bit as much unionists as the tories. No friends of Scotland, Scotland is the cash cow that keeps the rest of them afloat without us they are in deep trouble.

  33. Peter McCulloch

    @Jockanese Wind Talker
    21 July, 2017 at 10:17 am
    Thanks for that, I don’t and have never trusted Labour, and I was bemused by those who support Scottish Independence and yet were heaping praise on Corbyn, as if somehow he was going a different kind of politician than that of the rest of those in the Labour party.

    Well I hope they know better now!
    Because a Leopard can never change its spots.

  34. John McLeod

    I agree with Bilious.
    But this makes the Rev’s analysis even more compelling.

  35. Geronimo

    dot……… what comes after eh

  36. cearc

    So what is he offering Scotland? Free tuition fees? New social housing?

    His manifesto consisted mainly of stuff that the SNP have already done here. The SNP government have been working on a public sector bid for the next railway franchise renewal, so even nationalising the railways is behind the curve here.

    ‘Vote Labour so England can catch up with Scottish standards’. It’s a catchy slogan!

  37. geeo

    Suppose the big question is, will the tories ‘throw’ the next election in the hope it will have a devastating effect on the ‘labour’ Yes vote, as in, “no need to vote Yes as we have got a ‘saviour’ labour WM Government ?

    Not sure why labour would actually WANT power at this time, other than suggested negative impact on support for Yes !!

  38. Robert Graham

    Looks like a page straight from the Kezia playbook , totally missing the target once again, exactly the way she performs at every FMQs , As others have mentioned it’s the Union Stupid The Union
    And as ever a compliant BBC giving it big licks on the frigates just forgetting they are a few short of the hand on heart promise of eh 13 – oh what’s 10 between friends, and the city deal that has to be matched penny for penny by our government, This unlike the DUP bribe.
    Every single thing Labour in England are promising their electorate , the SNP have despite constant bloody moaning from their Scottish branch office, the SNP have put in place and are up and running, and these benefits are grudgingly used to the maximum by ungrateful cretins who will never vote for them, sometimes it makes you wonder why Nicola bothers with these bloody idiots.
    As has been previously mentioned by Wulls ” CRETINS ” a great name for Unionist voters here .

  39. Sheikh Mabunnet

    It’s all a play to his English audience. He has to be seen to be Tough on Scotland, Tough on the causes of Scotland.

  40. Dr Jim

    We live in a funny country where one of our football teams wins a game in Europe by 2-0 thus narrowly avoiding a “crushing defeat”
    but if they’d won by 50 goals they’d have been reported as avoiding “complete embarrassment” had they gone out to the “worst team” ever seen in European football

    This is the way the media keeps Scotland pessimistic about itself and we should send these “Journalists” for the ice bucket challenge to Siberia along with their political chums, although I do derive pleasure at the thought of doing much worse to them

    Remember these are Labour party leftovers

  41. Proud Cybernat

    IMO, taking these seats from the SNP isn’t about Corbyn winning or becoming PM. It’s all about putting Scotland back in its box. It’s about the British Nationalist Establishment removing an irritant and returning things to ‘normal’ two party politics all across the UK. The two main British Nationalist parties have the same objective when it comes to Scotland – neuter the SNP.

    They forget, however, that 2014 was a sea-change in the politics of Scotland where the country’s constitutional deficit opened many eyes to the sobering reality of the disaster the Union with England has been for Scotland over the centuries – and those eyes won’t easily be shut again. Scotland won’t be going back in the box any time soon and the British Nationalist parties might as well get used to it.

    Scotland is now set on a different path and will not be distracted from it. If England wants to commit economic suicide by jumping off the Brexit cliff (as is the policy of the two main British Nationalist parties) then it is entirely free to do so. They had just better get used to the idea that Scotland won’t be following them.

  42. Artyhetty


    Yep, he would not be on a crusade to tell Scotland how to vote if there wasn’t a GE in the pipeline soon, ish. I think they knew they were going to have a GE way before it was announced this year, all the ‘no snap GE will happen’ claptrap from May, lies.

    They thought by springing it on Scotland they could do damage to the SNP, and they won’t give up on that idea.

    Have a good day good people. Going to Edinburgh SNP St.Andrew rooms, wee do for election etc campaigners later, if anyone here is,or was involved and going, that would be nice. 🙂

  43. Dan Huild

    Scotland voted Labour for decades. What did Scotland get as a result? Just another britnat Westminster, blue or red tory, government which ignored Scotland. They’re all Westminster britnats; they’re all scum.

  44. David

    Mr Cor blimey i just have to say
    Stay in England out our way
    Why come here to just annoy us
    When we know you don’t give a toss for us

    Bob Rivers aka Rabbie Burns lol

  45. joannie

    I’d hazard a guess that Jeremy Corbyn’s view of Scotland and Scottish politics is 100% informed by Dugdale and her colleagues. I certainly get that impression of London labourites any time they turn up on an edition of QT filmed in Scotland. They make statements about the SNP and related matters obviously confidently expecting a round of applause and look genuinely surprised when they’re greeted with silence from the audience. Its a pity there seems to be nobody who could take Corbyn to one side and tell him clearly about the case for Scottish independence. Given his views on independence for certain other nations in the vicinity, he might actually listen.

  46. Daisy Walker

    Jeeza’s cut a deal with the establishment. They will now back him and labour to get into power, and sacrifice May. The Tories will be out just in time for the Brexit fallout and will re group 4 years down the line. He will get one or two token policies through and then be hemmed in my his own within the party.

    Absolutely keeping Scotland subsidising England is essential. Brexit hard or soft suites Jeeza.

    Doubt its a coincidence this was in Murdoch’s Sun.

    From England’s point of view the SNP are the enemy. Even the Canary no longer carries articles about the SNP now that the labour party in England are making nice noises.

    The establishment have got their act together and re grouped. We very much need to do the same. SNP Management if your listening, some leadership here would be good.

    If anyone’s head has dropped, just remember, we make up about 50% of the population, we are nimble and informed and inventive.

    This time we need to occupy all the ground, not just Positive YES (much as I like it).

    On Brexit the message must be hammered home – Brexit means MORE Immigration – cheap Indian labour, with no Human Workers Rights to protect anyone – the tory way.

    Then you can start talking about all the other aspects of it. i.e. Project Fear… Project Fear worked! We need to use it, in addition to other parts of the YES campaign being positive.

    Someone posted a Video of the manager of the Better Together campaing giving a lecture in Europe about the tactics. Can they re-post it. The tactics were very revealing and we need to at least know how our position are thinking and planning.

    Yes we can. Now we must.

  47. Rev. Stuart Campbell

    “If he took the 13 from the tories, wouldn’t that be a difference of 26 (-13 tories +13 labour)?”

    No. He needs 325 votes in the Commons to form a government. If he gets that, the number voting against him is irrelevant.

  48. jfngw

    Poor old Jeremy, even if he takes all 35 SNP seats he still will not be PM. The lack of numeracy displayed by Labour can only emphasize their lack of credentials to run a corner shop never mind a country. I wonder if his manifesto costings were as rigorously prepared, if he can remember them.

    If the people of Scotland can’t see sticking in this union is bad for them then I fear we are truly screwed.

  49. dandy dons 1903

    Steptoe Corbyn may appear benign and likeable but scratch beneath the surface and the devious unionist appears-to patronise and talk down to the cashcow that is Scotland, without whom the rest would be sunk and they know it, hence the desperate attempts by them back in sept 2014 to promise the earth but deliver nothing once they fooled enough folk into voting no. No more UK union please!

  50. Jamur

    Will JC be the new saviour of the union?

    No thanks “Jezza ” take yer patronizing patter and return to your London millionaire’s lair.

    Kind regards Scotland.

  51. handclapping

    What Jezza has forgotten is that he can lose the seats he presently holds eg Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath majority c250 and put himself even further behind.

  52. Hamish100

    Isn’t the political editor of the DR an Ulster no surrender unionist? So the Tories are his friends.

  53. HandandShrimp

    Even if Labour voters supported the SNP in those 13 Tory seats it would do more good for Jeremy’s position than taking the 18 SNP seats. For a start May would not have a majority even with the DUP and secondly Jeremy could, with the support of the SNP and others feasibly become PM.

    The Record “target” thing looks more like the work of Kezia and Co than Corbyn. The one thing we are always guaranteed from SLab is “SNPbadd + (Corbyn a bit baaad too)” So it will continue to focus on attacking SNP seats and supporting the other Unionist parties in attacking SNP seats whether that hobbles Corbyn’s chances or not.

    Corbyn would be well advised to sup with a long spoon at the SLab table.

  54. A.H.

    I also think they fail to realize the elections have already happened. It’s a common Corbyn problem – showing up late for the fight.

  55. Snode1965

    O/T…no Beattie on radio Scotland at 12 today.
    Instead we are being treated to a party political broadcast by Michael Government, explaining the UK farming policy post Brexit.
    Apparently no automatic payments will be made…farmers will have to *earn* it instead??

  56. Snode1965

    That’s Michael Gove…

  57. HandandShrimp


    I quite like Michael Government 🙂 (and I am sure he would too).

    I wonder how many Brexit Tory farmers are listening to his “earn it” message and thinking “Oh crap!”

  58. auld highlander

    So the tory voting farmers are about to get shafted by wee prat Gove and the london government along with the young people who now have to work until they are 67 and no doubt that will rise to 70.

  59. stewartb

    I have come to the conclusion that the descriptor ‘Unionist’ is too mild – after all, in non-political situations, ‘unions’ are generally regarded as positive things. And in the same vein, the opposite is often given as ‘separatist’ because of its perceived negative connotations.

    I have decided no longer to refer to “Unionists’ but instead to ‘British Nationalists’! I’m pleased to see many here using the latter term: I commend this re-framing to all.

    And Labour’s present leadership are indeed British Nationalists, first and foremost, and whether on the left or Blairite in their politics.

  60. galamcennalath

    We need to brand all Unionists as Tories. Cons, Lab, LibDems – in a Scottish context they all have far more in common than differentiate them.

    In the US struggle for independence, they labelled everyone who opposed it as a Tory. We should adopt the same label and meaning.

    What would a Corbyn government do all that differently from a May one in terms of their policies effecting Scotland?

    Cancel Trident? Nope. Cancel Brexit? Nope. More powers to Holyrood? Nope? IndyRef2, if needed? Nope. Major changes to UK constitution? Nope.

    Nothing of consequence!

    Through Blair-Brown-Cameron-May, IndyRef1 campaigning, Smith, every election … they all sing from same sheet.

    Tories all. And we should be calling them out for it.

  61. Clootie

    …only the people of Scotland can deliver a better future for the generations to come. Unfortunately they keep listening to the same drivel that has held them captive for 300 years.

    We drift close to Independence and once again the divide and rule trick is played again.
    I cannot fathom those who fall for the same crap time and time again.

    Deja Poo – the feeling you have heard the same shit before.

  62. Robert Graham

    I am getting a feeling something is afoot , a slow buildup to something about to happen , the bbc upping the pace for the union benefits , now thats not just coincidence , big licks for some bridge in Wales having tolls removed , while totally ignoring the work the SNP has done to completely remove these tolls in a whole country and as far as they could drop parking charges at hospitals , once again anything the SNP do is rubbish and not worth comment.
    its becoming evident the media in defence of the union are activly blocking any reference to work and progress made by the SNP , we are being sidelined and ignored in the hope we will go away .

  63. Dave McEwan Hill

    But we must now face the fact that the Establishment have wakened up to the fact that the Tories in Scotland can’t save the union and they need Labour in Scotland damaging the SNP to do so.

    For while (as they don’t understand Scotland) they thought Labour voters could be persuaded to back Ruthie but the beggers went off and supported SNP so it’s all change – and by our hesitancy by not charging forward when we had the union on the run we have now found ourselves on the back foot.

    We need a full blown independence campaign NOW.

  64. A.H.

    Totally agree with principal, but your math is wrong (which makes you even more right).

    If you count SNP MPs as supporting Labour (which you are, since you’re suggest taking SNP MPs isn’t bringing Corbyn closer to the being PM), and Tory MPs as being opposed to Labour, then taking 13 MPs from the Tories will narrow the gap by 26.

    To quickly illustrate – imagine his block (i.s. MPs supporting him, including the SNP) had 45, and the Tory block (i.e. MPs supporting the Tories, including the DUP, etc) had 55. So – a 10 MPs gap.

    Moving 5 MPs from the Tories to him will mean 50-50, or a gap of 0. i.e. Moving 5 narrows the gap by 10.

  65. starlaw

    Oldest trick in Wesminsters book, let Labour in to keep the mob happy. Tories back next time around.
    Scotland must stand on its own two feet, there is no socialist Labour party just Corbyn and a few others, behind them stand the ranks of Red Tories who will make sure Corbyn and Co. achieve nothing of any value.

  66. Albert Herring


    Unionists = English nationalists

  67. Robert Kerr


    BritNat for me still, EngNat is of course a synonym.

    After all Britain and England are the same.

    Rule Britannia, God Save the King!

  68. colin alexander

    I agree with basic conclusion of the article that Labour winning SNP seats does nothing to stop a Tory Govt. (Why he hasn’t sacked Kezia Dugdale for urging support for the Tories outside the Central Belt of Scotland is something I would like answered.)

    However, he’s targetting seats that have traditionally voted Labour and in some cases have shown a rise in support for Labour again.

    From a Labour perspective it makes total sense for him to target seats he has a better chance of winning, as many who voted SNP in those areas are sympathetic to left-wing policies.

    If he can convince these voters the prospect of a UK Labour Govt and left-wing policies are a more realistic prospect than an independent Scotland with policies that favour left-wingers / social justice, then there’s a real risk the SNP will lose those seats.

    In WM terms what did electing 56 SNP MPs achieve, can anyone name one Tory policy they stopped?

    If he can regain those seats, Labour will look more like a winner and harder seats may follow by also voting Labour. We could return to: voting SNP is a wasted vote.

    For Labour, the SNP are just another political rival to be beaten. It’s only in SNP circles that there is talk of a WM progressive alliance. Fantasy politics.

    In Scotland the SNP are Labour’s biggest rivals, so it makes sense to attack them.

    For the SNP, it must look at it’s policies. Does it continue to try to be all things to all people to please the conservative tendencies in the South and North-East who are voting Tory or does it fight for those voters who are attracted to Corbyn Labour in the Central Belt?

    Taking seats off the SNP does nothing to help Scotland and does nothing to stop a Tory UK Govt when the vast majority of Tory seats are in England.

    But beating the SNP will create a feel good factor in Labour and possibly with those who hold anti-SNP views across the UK, and thus boost Jeremy Corbyn’s and Labour’s popularity. So longer term it could encourage Labour support across the UK and help them beat the Tories.

  69. Brian Powell

    I saw an article in the National about Up-Helly-Aa festival. I believe it started around 1900s as midwinter festival to break up the dreary winter months.

    Whatever its original intention or Norse background it has nothing to do with that now, its purpose is about being British and not Scots.

  70. Capella

    Labour would never win the North East seats. His best hope is that the SNP win them back. But SLab won’t buy that. Better Together with the Tories is their guiding principle.

  71. crazycat

    @ A.H.

    No – he’s 28 short of the “magic number” for an overall majority (made up of Lab + SNP + other supporters).

    If he moves 18 seats from SNP to Lab, he’s still 28 short of that number.

    If he gains 13 seats from the Tories (or perhaps more realistically, the SNP regains them), then his total is only 15 short of the threshold.

    It’s not the Tory-Lab gap that matters, when the aim is to command the confidence of the House and become PM.

  72. TJ

    Labour’s problem is that English voters are too spooked to vote for them if they’re under the impression that the party is at the mercy of the SNP up north. The only way they gain credibility with English voters is by placing themselves against the SNP as well.

  73. jfngw


    You are confusing the gap between Labour & Tories and seats required to become PM with a majority of support. The gap between them will reduce by 26 but it still leaves him short of a majority even with SNP support.

    Even if Labour took all the seats in Scotland from SNP & Tories they still would be short of a majority by 15.

    With Cable now LibDem leader a Tory/LibDem/DUP co-operation is more likely than the LibDems supporting Labour (except at Holyrood).

  74. Ian McCubbin

    As far as Scotland is concerned, just my opinion, it’s same Labour just a variation on their spin. Absolutely no interest in its people or country.

  75. Macbeda

    Even if Labour took all the seats in Scotand (SNP, Tory and Lib Dem) he is still short of a majority. He needs to win seats in England, not Scotland, to get to be PM.

    This is a given with Westminster in that you must get your majority in England to be PM.

  76. Jack Collatin

    Vince Cable, the man who in Coalition with the Blue Tories sold his Liberal No Tuition Fess soul for a ministerial limo and a knighthood and who also sold our Postal Services to his pals in the City at an immediate loss of £1 billion to the public purse (and who will no doubt be joining Blair Brown and Darling working for the Man as a belated reward) has been appointed ‘leader’ of the Lib Dems, in a campaign which asked candidates to step forward, the response to which was that his 11 colleagues including the Phat Phuk, stepped one pace backwards in unison and hung him out to dry,is 74 years old.
    Jeremy Corbyn, 68, John McDonnell 66, Treeza, 60, David Davis, 68.
    The UK, No Country For Young Men, or Women for that matter.
    England is being run by a bunch of geriatrics my age, FFS.
    They don’t have much of a future either way.
    Be in no doubt, all of the above would dissolve Holyrood and send tanks up the Royal Mile to quell the rebellious Scots, and would form a Coalition of Chaos to thwart the democratic will of the Scottish people by any means fair or foul.
    They cannot stand the thought of an Independent Scotland in Europe while England buys in hormone infused Texas beef and bleached Kentucky Fried Chicken.
    The Daily Record is just a rag, and will lie to over half its readers about Brexit, the talk up the laughable Corbyn Bounce, which is merely Derek Hatton/Tommy Sheridan ’80s Militants in comfy slippers and pince-nez in this 21st Century.
    I repeat, the scribble whores of the Dead Tree Scrolls, Scots citizens all, are the Fourth Estate Fifth Column in our midst and are actively contributing to the premature deaths, chronic suffering , and grinding poverty of over half a million of our fellow citizens, by propagating this fucking asinine nonsense every day.
    Stick to tits and boobs and Sellick and Ranjurs and the Glasgow Sopranos killing each other, DR.
    What a shit little rag.
    Worry not, fellow readers of WoS, I doubt DR regulars read any of this crap. Hence the big photie of Ol’Jez and the daft big letters ‘hit list’.
    A snap of Baroness GetYerTitsOut next the Jez might have got more attention from the We Arra Peeple/Up The Ra’ subscribers right enough.Or does the Herald have exclusive right to the Busty Babe?
    Where’s Kezia?
    On her holidays with her £10,800 of Travellers’ Cheques paid for by me?
    They are a dying joke, Labour in Scotland.
    Well,it is the Fair, so any shite will do to fill the pages before the fitba and race cards I suppose.
    What a way to earn a living.

  77. HandandShrimp

    With the opinion polls suggesting that Labour are ahead of the Tories, it is unlikely that there will be another election and with the five year fixed term legislation still in place it is unlikely that the Tories would opt for ensuring the 2/3rds majority required to call another election.

    Consequently, all of this is a bit academic. If the Corbyn bubble bursts or Labour go into another death match leadership struggle, the Tories might be tempted to go for another election in which case the political wheel will have turned and the above targets no longer a realistic proposition.

    If the Tories wait the full 5 years who knows where we will be. If Brexit is a shambles, Corbyn’s pro-Brexity stance might not attract as many young voters as he might hope.

    Corbynism is a bundle of contradictions and they haven’t been adequately tested in the cold light of what the Brexit fall out will be.

  78. Jamie

    Interesting point raised by the article but I would say the SNP should also focus on the Tory seats too but not by going right as some say but by offering a positive vision of how they can make life better for the poor, lower and working classes in the shires.

    Having lived in the shires I have seen the belly of the beast in TORY shire heartlands and whilst the more fortunate have central heating and big houses the majority live in slums with expensive heating.

    I know that energy is devolved but maybe promising these people either gas central heating upgrades or energy rebates is one possibility.

    Or even a promise of energy price caps in an independent Scotland although I would add that energy costs are so shockingly high for people reliant solely on electric that a reduction rather than cap is needed.

    That is how the SNP can win the shires through the poor and working classes. The Tories out there don’t even give a damn about their natives why should anyone expect them to care about Scotland?

  79. Clapper57

    If ever there was a constant it is the constant of the Unionist media trying desperately to promote a champion to conquer nay quash support for any party , especially the SNP, who represent hope for those Scots who seek independence.

    On the left we have Corbyn. A leader who could not even control his own MP’s post Brexit result when his MP’s organised a coup against his leadership and who on many occasion have openly berated him in the HOC, remember Ian Austin ?…. and MP’s in his party who have voted in HOC against his instructions.And yet we are to have faith that he could be a PM who could control not only the UK but his own party…..and if we were to be taken in by this and vote for him in Scotland……this new socialist champion of the oppressed…not the Scots though…we would set independence back God knows how many years and would have to endure Labour in Scotland chastising the SNP and those in the Indy movement…..thus the Union and it’s supporters would claim victory yet again and deny the right of another Indy ref due to them claiming yet again a lack of support and desire among Scots.

    On the right we have Ruth Davidson. A leader who happily flaunts her association with and welcomes support of religious bigots and who is happy to support and promote UK Tory policies detrimental to those among us who are least able to cope in this ever selfish society that is being created thanks to political party’s such as hers. The media are happy to promote her as the champion of unionism and savior of the union and all because she talks CONSTANTLY about independence….the Scottish media are trying to blatantly fool gullible Scots into thinking she has influence and that her branch office, thanks to her leadership, has a degree of autonomy from HQ….especially since PM May has become somewhat toxic as Tory HQ leader.

    However whether Lefty Labour or right wing Tory ….support for either of these sides will ensure another independence ref will be presented as a dead cause…..however if or rather when things go wrong for Corbyn….the coup will be ready and the usual suspects will once again control the Labour party….and as for the Tories well May is most certainly not thought to be long term PM but merely a caretaker PM thanks to the fiasco that is the Brexit process….and God knows who will lead them next…Boris ?…Jacob R M has even been suggested…and if eventually ambitious Ruth is assigned to UKOK in safe seat who will take over from her…Tompkins ? Murdo ? Jackson C or Annie W…just joking on last two… for Labour’s Keiza…well she is a stayer cause she is anti Corbyn pro Blairite so that’s her passport to survival ensured .

    Basically the future is bleak for Scotland if either of the unionist parties gain even more votes from Scottish seats against the SNP…..the irony of the last GE is that if some Scots had used their heads and voted SNP to give the SNP a majority then the Tories would have had to make concessions to the Scots government with Brexit through a fear of a growth in support, among Scots , for independence …..but instead we gave a Tory government a free hand to well and truly screw us over…62% of Scotland voted remain yet some of us chose a party who wanted ….not only to leave the EU….but to REALLY REALLY leave….taking everything AND the kitchen sink with them……wha is like us indeed….f*cked if I know…… but some people in the world seem a lot better and NOTHING like us when they want something…..and are not meekly accepting of the status quo….if we continue on this way….with the proud Scots but…….. who delude themselves but do not delude us with their skewed unionist logic….then we Scots will surely be the real laughing stock of Europe if we continue to let this circus continue.

  80. Ottomanboi

    Corbyn is a BritState Unionist in that he is at one with the DUP, Tories, Lib Dems and of course his own Labour party. This slavish, ‘Brutish’ connexion must be severed.

  81. Jack Murphy

    stewartb said at 11:57am:
    “…….I have decided no longer to refer to “Unionists’ but instead to ‘British Nationalists’! I’m pleased to see many here using the latter term: I commend this re-framing to all…….”

    Your commendation is noted and approved. 🙂

  82. Andy-B

    Corbyn is no friend to Scotland, he’d gladly see his branch manager Dugdale dragged Scots back to the dark ages.

    Meanwhile Michael Gove has told farmers that they’ll need to earn their subsidies, in post apocalyptic Britain.

  83. Jack Collatin

    Well said, Clapper57 @2.01 pm.
    I note that the ‘Scottish’ Daily Mail (stop laughing at the back there please.) reports that May will no longer meet with Scotland’s FM and that Nicola will have to meet with Mundell and the political failure and undemocratically elevated Nobody Lord Ian Duncan to get updates on the almighty fuck up Davis and Fox are making of wrenching England off the Continental Shelf before setting sail for Trumpland.
    Apparently the perception by the rest of the world ofMay meeting with Sturgeon elevates our FM to ‘leader’ of a country status, when as we all know, Scotland is not a country but a plaything of the English Oligarchy.
    They love attempting to grind our faces in it. Yet Arlene Fuck the Pope, Blacks, Irish, Sodomites, abortionists, any Proddie sect But Theirs, Muslims, Jews, well anybody else, gets the Head of State treatment, flown over by the RAF, and she and her DUP clan get a bung of £100,000,000 each to spend on what they like (in Prod areas of course) and fuck the Good Friday Agreement.
    The EU27 have stated their case. No cards close to chest for Johnny Foreigner,no ‘ don’t reveal your hand too early’ shit from Fritz, Fernando, or Francois.
    No Freedom of Movement, means no Single Market, No passport for Finance Services, import tariffs, no cherry picking, Audi, VW, Peugot, Renault getting out of Dodge April 2019, back to the Mainland. No EU workers in the UK used as ‘bargaining chips’, the Costa Brits health care will costa fortune, England, pay your EU debt up front or the game’s a bogey.
    On all of this the Froggies Krauts and Dagos will not budge. In fact they told us all of this before Xmas, but not via the Yoon Dead Tree Scrolls or the £250,000 a year BBC News Presenters.
    Scots are doing it for themselves. Some of us even spikka da Forrin lingos.
    Yet Dr Fox announces on BBC Radio that a Trade Deal will be a piece of piss.
    What are these people on? I want some.
    Davidson Dugdale and Rennie will come back after their 9 week paid holidays in September and take up the ‘parish cooncil’ nonsense once more, a barrage of lies threats and distortions in full colour on the Beeb and STV, and in every Dead Tree Scroll, since their only aim is to destroy the Scottish Parliament and subjugate Scots to English dominance.
    Hence this pusillanimous shite in the Record.
    Perhaps if we started blowing things up and shooting people just like Norn Irn psychopaths, May would meet with NS?
    God Bless Scotland and Fuck the Archbishop of Canterbury? Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it, does it?
    I fully expect NS and Mike Russell to respond by asserting that they will not sit in the same room as an unelected Tory Boy Laird and political failure to discuss anything ‘of importance to the people of Scotland.’
    The sheer fucking arrogance of the English Empire knows no bounds.

  84. Robert Peffers

    @galamcennalath says: 21 July, 2017 at 9:45 am:

    “… The new Tory and Labour Scottish MPs have one role only, to sit in a seat in the corner and shut up. They must say nothing and do nothing, and they must definitely never ever do anything for Scotland. They must never be seen as representing Scotland, because it’s very existence must be played down.”

    No! No! No! galamcennalath, they do have a vital Labour Party function to perform. They must always follow the Labour Party line.

    What is more they do not sit in corners either. Their places at Westminster are in their offices and in the restaurants, café, bars and gyms. Etc. within the House of Commons. When Divisions are called the Division bell can be heard in all such venues in the House.

    Only then do they merge to be herded through whichever lobby the party leader has decreed they vote, for or against, whatever motion it happens to be.

    These Scottish MPs are variously referred to by their English colleagues as, “The Low Flying Jimmies”, or, “The Lobby Fodder”.

    It is a matter of fact that the debating chamber is designed so that there are not sufficient seats to accommodate the full number of MPs elected to the Commons.

  85. Az

    Oh dear, more subliminal militaristic tones. Wasn’t sure if the Record do this as never read the thing – but there it is, sniper Jeremy, taking out SNP MPs. Fighting for Bridden. Queen and country. Delusional.

  86. North chiel

    Yes ” jack Collatin ” @0252pm , a very perceptive interpretation as regards the
    state of play of the Westminster international ” team” ongoing “negotiating shambles” .Dr Fox’s ” winning goal” of a ” piece of piss” international trade deal might well indeed ” break the deadlock” as the whisper is that a “Russian linesman” is to arbitrate during the second half of ” the game”.

  87. Macbeda

    For those who can’t do the math see the following

    I don’t have access to Jabba’s abacus.

  88. Richard McHarg

    Do any of these Corbyn worshippers realise that, should he win an election, he’ll not be around forever. Apart from that, he’ll be reined-in by the Establishment, and we’ll be back to square one in Scotland: in thrall to Westminster, and putting up with England’s choice of who governs from there.

  89. Highland Wifie

    @Clootie. “Deja poo” – I love it.

    @Jack Collatin “that May will no longer meet with Scotland’s FM”
    NS should refuse to meet with Mundell et al on the basis that information re.brexit will be obtained from a source that can be trusted – I.e. direct from Brussels.

  90. starlaw

    Jeremy Corbyn is part of the Britnat gang and he will follow Britnat rules. SNP are public enemy number one. If Labour were really the party they claim to be its the Tory seats they would be going after. Winning seats in Scotland is of no use to the Labour Party but will be of most benefit to the Tories. That is the way of the Britnat code of honour. Britnats are like the Holy Trinity three parts make one.

  91. Jockanese Wind Talker

    Yoony Tunes pushing plan ‘New GE, Neuter the EssEnnPee”.

    The “Daily Redcoat “target” thing” and Neil Finlay MSPs ‘Press Release’ all in the same day?


    I think not.

    Another Snap GE

    Utilising a massively mobilised Anti SNP/Anti Indy section of the Electorate whilst hoping that the Indy Supporters and the normal man and woman in the street are so thoroughly demoralised/demotivated to participate that they get the >50% of Scotland’s MPs Unionist.

    They need to show the EU that Scotland wants the same as them.

    As @Proud Cybernat says at 11:10 am

    “It’s all about putting Scotland back in its box”.

    And nailing the lid shut.

  92. Jockanese Wind Talker

    @Albert Herring says at 12:20 pm

    “Unionists = English nationalists”

    Na Unionists = The Wanna Be English

    Lickspittles and Cap doffers.

    Plastics who believe that the English are the Scots Superiors.

    An extension of the ‘class system’.

    Divide and Conquer, most effective tool of the Union and The Empire down the years.

  93. Clapper57

    Jack Collatin says @ 2.52

    Hi Jack…frankly I am sick to death of the new Messiah Corbyn….is there nowhere he will not go to get attention…music festivals….even the Edinburgh fringe.

    Corbyn…so politically astute (not) that he adopts the same Brexit strategy as Tories thus when the reality hits home with the cerebrally challenged Brexiteers and the Brexit shit hits the fan….Corbyn ,through his own inaction, will be unable to take the upper hand and be the smug champion while consoling the Brexit mugs taken in by those stupid Tory Brexiteers and yon chancer Farage…. because he was not tactically astute enough to err on caution and stand up for what was right i.e. staying in single market/customs union….oh and perhaps not leaving the piggin EU in the first place…… but instead pandered to the Brexit means Brexit mob…..not so much a anti establishment hero as a willing participant of the Brexit establishment.

    Some of the above posters have correctly said that Corbyn , also his sidekick McDonnell, are NO friends to Scotland….that is SO true…and come second Indy ref he will be up here doing his best to ensure we and our resources remain tied to his own beloved country and help prop it up……in my eyes he is no different to the Blairites…..same party….same lack of vision and regard for Scotland as all of the other Unionist numpty leaders before him…and to come.

    His record is hardly exemplary when it comes to consistency and presenting a clear message with the exception of Scots being independent….. then once again he concurs with….. the Tories…for me there is NO WAY I will vote Labour EVER irrespective of who is leader because all Labour represent for me and mine is a barrier to my country being free of hope , progressive, able to flourish and having the means to look after the many not just the few to copy a soundbite….but there are those among us who see Corbyn as the champion of the many and may be swayed to jump on his bandwagon….perhaps those who are considering this should reflect that his popularity like many before him can diminish….and when it does … will be business as usual …..and guess who will suffer….the very ones who were sold a pup………..again….fool me once etc etc

    Have a good evening Jack….enjoyed your post too.

  94. Robert Peffers

    @stewartb says: 21 July, 2017 at 11:57 am:

    ” … I have decided no longer to refer to “Unionists’ but instead to ‘British Nationalists’! I’m pleased to see many here using the latter term: I commend this re-framing to all.”

    Well said, stewartb, but to be perfectly correct, and perhaps risking accusations of pedantry by the ever increasing numbers of faux Scottish Nationalists Wingers who are continually running down the SNP SG here on the Rev Stu’s blog, there is no such nation as, “The British”, these anti-Scottish nationalists you refer to are thus English Nationalists.

    Mark you these English Nationalists use the terms, British, Britain, Great Britain, The UK and England as all mutually inclusive terms. They are not.

    Neither do the terms Country and Kingdom mean the same thing but that is also their belief.

    Mind you they also believe there is no such thing as English Nationalism either and even it there were it would, by their minds, a very good thing and certainly not a very bad thing like, for example, every other nation’s nationalism especially those of Scotland, France or even Germany.

    The point, of course, is not that the population of England are really to blame for these failings. After all the poor dears have been subjected to Westminster evil, (or is that EVEL), propaganda for very much longer than the Scots.

  95. Clydebuilt

    If we all vote for a Corbyn Labour Party MP like Cat Boyd did will we still get independence?

    Just asking?

  96. Robert Peffers

    @Dave McEwan Hill says: 21 July, 2017 at 12:09 pm:

    ” … We need a full blown independence campaign NOW.”

    All we Scottish independence supporters should stop listening to, and voting for, that anti-independence Sturgeon woman and her SNP party and listen instead to Dave McEwan Hill, the true Scottish Nationalist voice of independence.


  97. Robert Peffers

    @Albert Herring says: 21 July, 2017 at 12:20 pm:

    ” … Unionists = English nationalists.”

    Aye! Albert, even when they are Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish.

  98. dakk

    This old BritNat fraud masquerading as an international socialist is just the latest Establishment useful idiot on the scene.

    The supposed pacifist’s insipid stance on Trident (allowing a free vote which ensured the Labour unions backed project is adopted)showed the true mettle of the unscrupulous maggot.

    Reminds me of the Nazi concentration camp guards who were just following orders.

    He’s a fraud alright.

  99. Jockanese Wind Talker

    @Clydebuilt says at 4:58 pm

    “If we all vote for a Corbyn Labour Party MP like Cat Boyd did will we still get independence? Just asking?”


    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

    Aboot pished mysel’

    Rhetorical Question?

    If not, the answer is no, we don’t get Indy.

    But don’t worry.

    Boyd who didn’t vote in the EU Ref, although allegedly a committed Socialist concerned about Workers and Human Rights etc.

    The same Boyd who voted for the BritNat Corbyn, despite allegedly being a supporter of Indy and being paid to write that she wouldn’t be voting for him.

    She gets on the gravy train (which it is becoming more apparent daily is what she’s all about).

    Remember they are hypocrites and as with a lot of ‘Socialists’, Trades Unionists (Think 2 Jags Prescott) and ALL BLiS Types this holds true:

    The working class can kiss my ass, I’ve got the foreman’s job at last.

  100. stewartb

    Given today’s references to English nationalism etc., does anyway remember this from the New Statesman (11 FEBRUARY 2016)?

    ‘The lost magic of England: The great conservative journalist Peregrine Worsthorne reflects on a long life at the heart of the establishment.’ BY JASON COWLEY

    ‘Worsthorne is saddened but not surprised that so many Scots voted for independence and his preference is for Britain to remain a member of the European Union.

    “What’s happening is part of the hopelessness of English politics. It’s horrible. I can’t think why the Scots would want to be on their own but it might happen. The youth will vote [for independence]. This is part of my central theme: the Scots no longer think it’s worthwhile belonging to England.

    The magic of England has gone – and it’s the perversity of the Tory party to want to get us out of the European Union when of course we’re much more than ever unlikely to be able to look after ourselves as an independent state because of the quality of our political system.”

    Just when your head begins to nod in agreement, he spoils it all ‘big time’ by revealing his colonial mentality!! A very telling insight from a ‘great’ man at heart of the English = British establishment!

  101. gus1940

    RE this Unionist/British Nationalist business why not just call the politicians and their parties Colonialists and the Broadcast and Print media lot The Colonialist Media.

  102. Jockanese Wind Talker

    See what you’re saying @gus1940 says at 7:00 pm

    “RE Colonialists and The Colonialist Media.”

    But don’t give the idea Scotland is a ‘colony’ any more traction.

    Regardless of what the BritNats believe or want the less politically aware to believe.

    Scotland isn’t a colony, it is a founding member of a Bi-Partite Political Union between Two Kingdoms. (I know you know Gus and am not being facetious).

    Scotland’s position in the UK is the same as they pretend the UKs was in the EU during the EU Referendum.

    Shout that from the roof tops.

    Ram it home at every opportunity.

    Colonials or BritNats whichever, they are deluded.

  103. Graeme McCormick

    Dave Hill is spot-on. We need to think and live Independence. The First Minister must appoint a Cabinet Secretary for Independence to prepare the country for Independence and use the powers and resources of her government to this end.

  104. jk.scobie

    I Just do not get it, how many lies must Labour need to spin and , still get the votes, honestly, when will the Labour people simply get the message……Scottish Labour DO NOT represent the people of Scotland ..only their masters in Westminster

  105. Ghillie

    I don’t often take against a person as an individual, but I really am not liking Jeremy Corbyn these days.

    He is no friend to Scotland.

    Barely even knows where we are.

    Would a Jeremy-lead British government treat Scotland any diferently than the Tories? Doesn’t look like it.

    Wouldn’t be removing Trident or halting Brexit or devolving the powers Scotland needs to function fairly or granting our Indy Referendum or doing anything other than putting the Great British Empire’s interests first and Scotland back in a scruffy wee box.

    Nup. Don’t like him.

    On top of that, I don’t think he’s very bright.

    At a time when the English desperately need a leader with intelegence and integrity, I feel so very sorry for them that this character is all that seems to be on offer.

  106. daodao

    Labour party members, activists and sympathisers (including a former PPC) that I know in the part of England where I live are particularly hostile to the SNP and Scottish independence movement and regard preserving the UK as even more important than defeating the Tories. They despise Nicola Sturgeon and describe her in obscene terms. Among other things, they view Scottish independence as a threat to England’s (aka London’s) importance and influence in international affairs, as it would no longer be GREAT Britain. I do not share these views.

    Paradoxically, they are much more sympathetic to the aims of Sinn Fein regarding the 6 British-occupied counties in the north of Ireland. It is the integrity of GB rather than the UK that they seek to preserve. Corbyn is no exception.

  107. A.H.

    @crazycat and @jfngw,

    I’m not sure which part of my message you misunderstood, so will try again.

    I fully agree that taking MPs from the SNP doesn’t bring him any closer to being PM. Meaning – the gap between the total number of MPs that supports him, and the total number of MPs that is against him, remains the same.

    But taking 13 MPs from the Tories doesn’t only add to the number of MPs that supports him, but also reduces the number of MPs that is against him. Meaning – the gap between the two groups will be reduced by 13 * 2 (i.e. 26). So he will be 26 MPs closer to being PM (i.e. commanding a majority), not 13.

    Imagine that you have 28 MPs supporting you, and I have none. So, the gap between us is 28. Now take 13 MPs from you, and move them to me. Now you have 15 MPs, and I have 13 MPs. i.e. The gap between us now only 2.

    If you’re still unsure – take the results of the last elections, tally up the MPs supporting Corbyn, and against him. Calculate the gap. Now remove 13 MPs from the Tories, and add 13 to Labour. Tally the MPs again and tally the new gap – you’ll find that the gap has been reduced by 26, of course.

    It’s basic maths in a zero sum game – if you reduce one side AND add to the other, you narrow the gap by both the reduction and the addition.

    It’s somewhat disappointing that the Rev (that I always took to be a man who doesn’t dig his heels at a mistake) isn’t correcting his post (with a correction that makes his point – that Corbyn needs to focus on the Tories, not the SNP – even stronger) despite repeat explanations (for several people on this thread). You can literally just try with the election results (reduce Tories, add to Labour, calculate the gap again) and see.

  108. A.H.

    Here, I’ll do the math to help.

    In the 2017 elections the Conservatives and the DUP won 328 together.

    The parties opposing (all of which will support a progressive Labour gov as an alternative to a hard Brexit Tory gov) won 314 seats (Labour + SNP + Lib Dems + Plaid Cymru + Greens). Not counting the Sinn Fein as they don’t take up their seats, of course.

    So the gap between the groups is currently 14 seats.

    You know what happens if you take 13 from the Tories and move them to Labour? May’s block will have 315 MPs, and Corbyn’s block will have 327 MPs. He won’t need another 15 MPs – he’ll be PM.

    Under which division of parties do you think he’s missing 28 MPs now, AND 15 MPs if you take 13 from the Tories and move to Labour?

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