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Equal partners

Posted on February 11, 2017 by


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    392 to “Equal partners”

    1. Ghillie says:


    2. Robert Louis says:

      Well done Mr.Cairns, an excellent cartoon.

      Come the next referendum on the restoration of Scottish independence, all they need for promo videos is that short clip of the Commons deputy speaker, telling a Scottish MP to shut up.

      Seriously, after that happened, if you still think Westminster cares about Scotland, you need to see a doctor. Westminster regards Scots as scum. Always has, always will do.

      O/T Meanwhile, from REV STU’d twitter, apparently Diageo are touting Bell’s Whisky as ‘The most famous Whisky in Great Britain’, bedecked in union jacks, with not a single Scotland flag to be seen.

      Might I suggest avoiding Diageo brands. Sadly that means I won’t be touching Talisker again. Utterly, utterly shameful. Diageo can go to hell.

    3. IheartScotland says:

      Grrr, and Grr….nothing else to say. ..

    4. Dan Huil says:

      Arrogance and ignorance is the britnat way.

    5. IheartScotland says:

      I also heard a comment that the head of the EU didn’t want any expansion during his presidency, well, UK leaves, We stay, no expansion. ..solved….

    6. gerry parker says:

      Great cartoon Chris.

      More ammunition for when we take our case directly to Brussels after Article 50 is triggered.

      THe EU is keen on democracy and we will be able to show them examples of democracy Westminster style, not sure they’ll be impressed.

    7. jockmcx says:

      this episode will live forever.

    8. Marie Clark says:

      Chapeau Chris. I don’t know how you do it.

      Very well done sir.

    9. Les Wilson says:

      Great toon Chris, you are master of your trade.

      Robert Louis says: Here starts the stealth of more Scottish assets. No more will I buy Diageo products. They will move production to England, claiming it is a British product.
      It will become “English” whisky.

      Scottish whisky can only be made in Scotland, but sneaky re-branding may be their ploy. They can GTF.

    10. jimnarlene says:


    11. David Smith says:

      Wonder if a #BoycottDiageo campaign would be of use in that respect.

    12. Nana says:

      Excellent cartoon Chris.

      Hoyle displaying his contempt for Scotland with his sneering snarling tone. Waving his hand dismissively perfectly illustrates what Westminster really thinks of us.

      I thought during his tantrum he was going to burst a blood vessel.

      See how much more that clown is paid for his rols as deputy speaker, over and above his salary as an mp.

    13. davidb says:

      Welcome back Mr Cairns. You were missed.

      Re Bell’s hooch. I don’t accept anything with the apron on it now, so I wouldn’t buy a product that is “proud”. Anyway, don’t us Scots drink malt whisky nowadays?

      Read this and laugh at the faux patriotism of the parent company. Bells is probably Dutch as well.

    14. galamcennalath says:

      Great toon. It’s all just going through the motions of pretendy democracy, where they don’t want us in WM, but they don’t want Scotland to leave the UK.

      Can I suggest to our guys at the Westmidden that next time they burst into a rousing rendition of Caledonia. 🙂

    15. Craig P says:

      Bells, no great loss there. I’d use it to start a fire on a barbeque but I certainly wouldn’t drink it. (If it was Macallan that would be a different story!)

    16. John Moss says:

      Cheeky and to the point. Well done, best laugh of the day!

    17. Clydebuilt says:

      Too good for the Herald……..

      Analysis of this by GA Ponsonby at.

    18. Effijy says:

      Cherry on the Fake!

    19. Wulls says:

      Robert Louis…… I collect Single malts, after reading that shite from Bells/ Diageo I am now bolstering the collection from distilleries based in Scotland.
      There are several

    20. Socrates MacSporran says:


      Excellent cartoon Mr Cairns, but, and I am so sorry there has to be a but – Hoyle didn’t actually sit in the Speaker’s Chair when chairing that debate – he sat on the right of the Clerk, at the top of the table.

      However, drawing that would not have had the same impact, so, on the grounds of artist’s licence, you are forgiven.

    21. Ian McCubbin says:

      Great cartoon……..but time to bring SNP MPs home and prepare for independence.

    22. Les Wilson says:

      The other day I was in a store in Glasgow, a clothing store.
      I wandered over to look at jackets, I quite liked a waterproof one which would have been good for walking the dogs.

      The price was ok, however my eyes caught the label. A butchers apron on it, but get this, the blue of the Saltire was not there, it was replaced with a green. So again, Scotland does not exist in Yoonland, and it is getting worse.
      Removal of our colours in the flag are intended to be an insult, no other reason for it.
      Needless to say, I did not buy it, and did feel insulted.

    23. Bob MACK says:

      Well, they steal everything else, so why not ?

    24. Croompenstein says:

      That wee nyaff Bercow is every bit as bad with the Scottish MPs but his stance on Trump was a welcome change.

    25. Ken500 says:

      What a nasty little man. It sums up Westminster’s MP’s lying, ignorant, arrogant attitude to Scotland which have existed tor years. Along with the smirking sychophants in the background. Wallowing at the trough. 3rd rate rejects. The truth will come out. Even if they try to hide it.

      What a way to behave. Bankrupt Britain. The debt ever increasing. No wonder people dreaded the Tories q illegal return to government. They committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. The migration that they caused with their illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.

      Thatcher left over 3million unemployed, interest rates at 15% and economic hardship. She was stabbed in the back by her own colleagues to get rid off her. The English working class still voted Tory. The Tories will destroy the world econoomy. Labour backs them up in every way and offers no opposition. A total shambles. Scotland is better off out of this mess and always has been. Diabolical behaviour.

      Diageo and other multi whisky companies have evaded taxes and never paid corp tax on massive whisky profits from production in Scotland.

    26. Sinky says:

      NATO attack Sputnik for false stories. I take it they don’t get The Daily Heil or UKIP Express.

      BBC Radio Scotland this morning covering Herald story on only 35% think BBC bias, Gordon Brewer says that must mean two thirds think we are doing OK when actual figure who didn’t think BBC was biased in its independence coverage was 23%.

    27. galamcennalath says:

      OT An excellent short video report from Aljazeera …

      “Mehdi Hasan shows how Brexit leaders moved the goalposts on the single market. ….. exposes how pro-Brexit voters are getting more than they bargained for.”

      [direct link so video works]

    28. Thank Gawd for Angry Salmon.

    29. ronnie anderson says:

      The Toon has it the toon has it Democracy locked out.

      Brilliant cartoon Chris.

    30. Glamaig says:

      Sinky says:
      11 February, 2017 at 9:55 am

      BBC Radio Scotland this morning covering Herald story on only 35% think BBC bias, Gordon Brewer says that must mean two thirds think we are doing OK when actual figure who didn’t think BBC was biased in its independence coverage was 23%.

      Thats good news. However believe it or not I know somebody who thinks Radio Scotland in 2014 was biased FOR independence!

    31. dakk says:

      Great cartoon Chris and good likeness to that very unnatractive speaker individual.Where do they dig them up?

      @Robert Louis. 7.19

      ‘Westminster regards Scots as scum. Always has, always will do.’

      Not only Westminster.All BritNat Yoons regard us Scots as scum.

      You see,they are British,and that is obviously a superior caste to Scottish.Even the second class Scottish Catholic Yoons(Act of Settlement) regard us Scots as beneath them.

      The cheek of them !!

    32. Valerie says:

      Brilliant, and caught Lindsay Hoyle very well.

      They are out for dirt on Bercow now lots of vaguely corrupt stuff being leaked.

    33. Smallaxe says:

      Nice one Chris, thank you.
      Let’s see if they can be heard over this!

      What custom strictly divided;
      All people become brothers,
      Where your gentle WINGS abide.
      Indeed, who calls even one soul
      Theirs upon this world!
      And whoever never managed, shall steal himself
      Gladly away from this cursed union

      Friedrich Schiller (and me) 🙂

      Peace Always

    34. Capella says:

      Could this be the start of a series “In the Speakers Chair”? Excellent cartoon.

      Re Diageo – anyone remember the “insider dealing” scandal when Guinness took over Scottish Distillers? Then merged with Grand Metropolitan to become Diageo. Then reassigned ownership of their Scotch production to the Netherlands to make them the largest producers of Scotch whisky in the world.

      Might explain some of the low estimates for Scotland’s products. Diageo pays little tax in the UK.

      It’s complicated:

      “Diageo has managed to use these Dutch structures to transfer billions of pounds worth of its businesses out of the UK, on paper at any rate.
      The legal ownership of many famous trademarks has been transferred, including Johnnie Walker scotch, J & B Rare, and Gilbey’s gin – brands worth hundreds of millions of pounds.
      Along with the brands has gone the ownership of the entire whisky businesses, leaving Scotland’s distilleries as hollowed-out sub-contractors.”

      So it’s possible the staff in those Bells pictures should be wearing the Dutch flag. BTW up until 1936, men in the Guinness brewery had to resign if they married a Catholic. So given the tax dodging, bigotry and all round lying, maybe the Union Jack British branding is the most appropriate.

    35. Clootie says:

      Bells and Westminster. Both look good regarding outward appearance but leave a bad taste when experienced.

    36. TheWasp says:

      As a former diageo employee, I remember being told by a senior manager, maybe ten years ago, if they could move production to a lower cost economy they would jump at the chance.
      This was never followed through, but shortly after on the production side they ramped up the use of agency workers on less money, and contracts which meant they were laid off one week in five, and the weeks they were at work only did four days.
      One of my friends sons was laid off before Christmas last year with no set start back date, he was told he would be contacted when he was required. This young man has worked for them for seven years with not a hint of a full time contract

    37. JLT says:

      I had never really heard of Mr Lindsay Hoyle, the Deputy Speaker of the Commons, that is until twice in literally a week, and now his face is now familiar to us all as that of Theresa May.

      His attitude towards the SNP seems to be, ‘aye, aye I’ve acknowledged you, and yes, you do all seem to be a bit of a riotous lot, but please, please …do not say another word …ever!’

      Twice he’s gone for our benches, and twice he’s roared at us. I’ve never seen him roar at anyone else. And that’s the thing …as said, I never even knew he existed until last week. It was only his shouting at Alex Salmond (which he was wrong to do so) and telling the SNP benches to stop humming ‘ode to joy’ (which technically, he was right to do).

      Makes you wonder what will happen this week in the Commons between the SNP and our establishment masters. Who said politics was boring, eh!

    38. robertknight says:

      They don’t like it up ’em Captain Mainwaring, they don’t like it up ’em…

    39. Macart says:

      That’s a fine piece of work Chris.

      Kudos. 🙂

      No, we’ve never been an equal partner. That is not how the treaty of union was constructed and it was not how the union construct of Westminster government was ever intended to work.

      There is not then and most certainly not now any political ‘better togetherness’. That is as much a construct and fabrication as thone howf on the Thames.

      The inhabitants of that mausoleum use the social union created by the populations of these islands as a tool to control and shape their political will. Truth of the matter is you don’t and have never needed a political union to define your relationships with other people and other cultures. THAT is an illusion politicians would have you believe is in their gift and their power to grant or define. It allows them the illusion of power they never had and have no right to.

      You define your friendships and relationships, not some wonk in a chamber that doesn’t give a shit whether you even exist.

      No border or power on earth exists can prevent you from loving family, caring for friends, or feeling sympathy and empathy for the plight of fellow human beings. Those ties that bind really don’t require political will or definition at all.

      Now political or formal partnership, that’s a different kettle of fish entirely. That does require some work. It requires understanding, sometimes acceptance and a fair bit of come and go. Most of all it requires a recognition of equality, of respect. That’s what being a ‘partner’ is really all about.

      The day after Scotland’s 2014 indyref and every day since should have been an abject lesson for folk in how you, ‘the Scottish electorate’, are regarded as a political partner in the United Kingdom. From the appalling scenes in George Square through Cameron’s declaration of EVEL. The farce of the Smith Commission and the unedifying sight of political parties jockeying to show who could punish Scots most in the run up to the General election of 2015. The gawdawful spectacle of the Scotland Bill debates and the wilful attempt to pass through legislation and crippling financial burden to Scotland. The neglect shown our businesses and industry as austerity measures increased and tightened. Those broad shoulders looked pretty fucking narrow as thousands of families lost pay packets and job security assurances were burnt and discarded as yesterdays campaign material.

      Finally, the humiliation of an EU referendum and looming exit, which Scots did NOT vote for at any plebiscite over the past two years and were given no opt out from. This from a government that assured the people of Scotland that ONLY by remaining within their union, could Scots ensure their political and economic ties with the EU. A Supreme Court debacle where you found out that your right to exist really didn’t. That your opinion isn’t required. That your parliament and democratic will could be ignored… by your partner and ‘equal’. So much for the Scotland bill settlement and the Sewel Convention.

      No, there isn’t much equality on show really and even less of anyone’s definition of partnership.

      The good news is that those politicians who did this still can’t close the door to your escape clause, your constitutional lifeboat. That door has a keyholder in Holyrood that folk put there… just in case. 😉

    40. Marcia says:

      Here is a link to Patrick Grady’s full speech at WM this week. The Deputy Speaker was a bit less confrontational during this one which lasted nearly an hour with numerous interventions from fellow SNP MP’s. The DS gave up!

    41. TheItalianJob says:

      Great that the SNP MPs are putting their arguments across and trying to stick for the principles they were elected on. Although the contempt shown is totally unacceptable especially from a so called speaker of the house.

      Contrast this when all our MPs were in the majority labour they did nothing for Scotland and just toed the party line and voted with the Tories on many bills as they did so last week and this week on the Brexit bills.

      How much more of this can we as a nation take before the majority realise being governed from WM is an utter waste to Scotland and of no use at all in helping our country to prosper and move progressively forward in this new millennium.

    42. TheItalianJob says:

      @Macart at 10.35

      Great summary of the situation we Scots have had to endure since the ref in 2014 was lost.

    43. Proud Cybernat says:

      Excellent ‘toon, Chris. Suddenly there are all these sweaty voices that need to be silenced. Oh how they must long for the good old days when busloads of SLabour MPs were sent to Westminster with masking tape wrapped right roon their goobers. Aye, those SLabour MPsd knew how to behave in the Palace of Westminster, knew their place.

      Oh can’t we have the good old days back again?

      As others have remarked – BBC being found out in Scotland. Excluding ‘Don’t Knows’, 61% of respondents in BMG/Herald poll believe the BBC Scotland is biased against Scots indy.


      Let’s keep educating folks, people about that utterly corrupt outfit. They are one of the key obstacles to us regaining our national independence. They are still ‘at it’ but the majority of Scots now recognise it. But we must keep up the campaign – educate, educate, educate and together we can render their fake news and outright propaganda futile.

      A little taste of BBC FAKE NEWS:

      (2 minute clip)

      BBC – GIRFUYs.

    44. Grouse Beater says:

      On the button as ever, Chris. The way Scotland is treated is there for all to see and hear, yet some don’t see it, others won’t acknowledge it, and others still applaud it.

      Your weekend reading

      Scotland – Shut it!:
      Trump – the backlash:

    45. TheWasp says:

      Les Wilson @ 9.29

      Could the flag possibly have Basque ?

    46. TheWasp says:

      Les Wilson @ 9.29

      Could the flag possibly have been Basque ?

    47. TheWasp says:

      As the lead story on five live now is about lack of investment in public parks, is this taking “look a squirrel” to its logical conclusion

    48. Muscleguy says:

      To all those criticising Diageo they are trying to sell into a marketplace full of Brexiters and with both English and Welsh whiskies in it. Bri

      Remember you cannot please all of the people all of the time and there are more potential customers in England than in Scotland.

      You should probably not look at how various whiskies are marketed in foreign markets. Doubtless the twee Brigadoon Scottishness which can be displayed would get people’s backs up.

      It is not Diageo’s fault England voted Brexit. They are simply trying to market their products in that reality. Also its a fucking blend. Boycotting single malt over blend marketing is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    49. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Unlike many, I do not simply get mad, kick the cat, then write to Wings, when A Hole MP annoys me.

      Google the English MP at his or her Westminster email contact, all are on-line; be polite but firm. You will not often get a response, but, they will know how you feel.

      When Mr Hoyle had his argument with Ms Cherry and Alex Salmond, I wrote to him and told him, I thought he was out of order. However, when ‘Ode to Joy’ started up, I actually thought he handled it well, so I wrote again and told him so.

      Never forget, Mr Hoyle is a Labour politician, he probably dislikes, even hates the Tories as much as we do.

      Yes, as a Labour politician, he is a rival, an enemy even, but, the real, big, serious enemy – the one who will probably do us most harm, is the Tory.

    50. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Muscleguy Scotch whisky is a protected under EU law as I understand it . Rebranding with the union flag is not Scottish.

    51. Ace, Cairns. Summed up ‘better together’ with your coruscating penmanship.(I know the Yoons read this avidly. That’ll have them reaching for their Collins.)

      BTW ; ‘don’t ask for whom the Bells toll, they toll for England.’
      Boycott all of their products, ye sons and daughters of Scotland.

    52. Catherine says:

      English and male preferably.

    53. DerekM says:

      Nice one Chris 🙂

      order order your masters will now show their total arrogance.

    54. Effijy says:

      Is that Diageo who transferred their Scottish Accounts Office to Hungary as they worked for 40% less than Scots?

      If any Dead-ages-ago employees read “Wings” I can assure them that stealing or tainting Scotland’s Whisky brands means that I will never touch anything connected with them, ever again.

      It seems that their profits are up by 15% due to Sterling having dropped and making their drinks cheaper against foreign currencies.

      So should we all be hoping to see the value of our earnings continue to drop so that a multi-billion pound corporation can make even greater profits and possibly return our Accounting jobs as the cost of hiring Hungarian workers grows ever higher?

      I hope that an Independent Scottish Government Taxes the life out of them in the only country where Scottish Whisky can be produced.

      The words Go and Die sit comfortably in the name Diageo!

    55. winifred mccartney says:

      I too heard Gordon Brewer this morning with his mind numbing manipulation of the figures about bbc bias. It was clearly stated only 23% did NOT think the bbc was biased. I thought this was hysterical on a segment about bbc bias that he should be so ridiculously biased himself he was just plain wrong. 36% thought the bbc was biased and he therefore claimed the rest as thought the bbc was ok. They should listen to themselves. Outrageous. Still no mention of the good it might do David Beckham to promote a no vote to get his knighthood when discussing his leaked e-mails.

    56. galamcennalath says:

      ronnie anderson says:

      Scotch whisky is a protected under EU law as I understand it

      Not if Scotland is dragged out of the EU.

      I voted Remain, but at the time I wasn’t especially attached to the idea of EU membership. NOW, I am becoming more pro EU with each passing day!

    57. manandboy says:

      Leave the geese alone’: Paramilitaries offer migrating geese ‘protection’ in Belfast.

      Isn’t that nice. The loyalist Paramilitaries protect the greylag geese in the Shankill, while the Tories and the DUP protect the Paramilitaries. All quite normal in North East Ireland.

      Now imagine the reaction in the UK, were ‘Paramilitaries’ reported to be functioning in Coventry, Plymouth, Leeds or Birmingham or in any other town in the UK.

      Those Belfast Unionists – looking after the wildlife. It’s what they do.

    58. Dorothy Devine says:

      Just checked to Diageo list , that’s Tanqueray , Captain Morgan and Smirnoff off my list .

      Tanqueray is no great loss as Hendricks is rather tasty and Smirnoff has plenty competition just as good but with what can I substitute my Cap’n Morgans?

    59. Effijy says:

      I’ve been trying to find out just how many NHS England operations were cancelled during 2016.

      The UK Media just refuse to deliver a number as it would should just exactly how well NHS Scotland is run on their shoe string budget.

      I found this in a Sun Web site, but God knows if you can believe anything in the UK media.

      They restrict the true higher number by limiting the figure only to planned operations cancelled at the last minute?

      Does this mean that the thousands of Operations that didn’t take place due to them forcing Junior Doctors into strike action don’t count as they gave advanced warning of their actions???

      THE NUMBER of operations cancelled by the NHS in England hit a 15-year high last year.
      A total of 82,730 planned operations were cancelled at the last minute for non-clinical reasons, figures show.

      You only get to see that figures that the Government and their media allow you to see!

    60. Capella says:

      @ davidb 8:45 – apologies, I’ve just noticed that you linked to that Diageo article about their “Dutch” whisky industry upthread.

      Re malt, Guiness/Diageo took over Royal Lochnagar at Balmoral at the time of the insider dealing. They were planning to make it a luxury malt, increasing the price. At the time, a bottle of RL malt cost £16, of which £15 was tax.

      I wonder how these “outward domestication” scams alter the Scottish revenue figures? Diageo headquarters are in London, so maybe tax that their Netherlands companies miss, England collects.

    61. DerekM says:

      It would give me great pleasure as a Whisky fan on independence to be the one to tell diageo to fuck off and we will see you in court if you so much as think of calling that pish Whisky.

      Rest of the world when we become independent we will give you our finest not that crass nasty stuff the UK promotes as Whisky.

      Want a comparison ok 5 star cognac to tesco home brand cognac,one is great to drink the other is good at clearing a blocked sink.

      I can make better out in my shed.

    62. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      Gordon Brewer and the BBC also warned us that the Russian state broadcaster funded Sputnik, which is based in Edinburgh, is spreading mis-information and Anti-UK Propaganda. ( No laughing there)

      They also said that Sputnik is a supporter of Scottish Independence.

      if they do support Scottish Independence then they should make themselves more mainstream I would think.

      Every little helps.

    63. Effijy says:

      Found this on ITV web site?

      How does this stack up that 21,249 elective operations were cancelled in December alone, while the Sun claims that there were 82,730 over the whole of 2016???

      “The latest figures released by the health service shows that 21,249 elective operations were cancelled at the last minute in December for non-clinical reasons such as staff and bed shortages or administrative errors”.

      Who knows if the Freedom of information act would have to reveal All operations cancelled- of every type and for every reason?

    64. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Louis says: 11 February, 2017 at 7:19 am:

      “Might I suggest avoiding Diageo brands. Sadly that means I won’t be touching Talisker again. Utterly, utterly shameful. Diageo can go to hell.”

      Well actually no, what Diagio can, and will, do is be the very first UK/English/London company to scuttle across the Scottish/English border as fast as their wee tootsies will carry them upon Scottish Independence happening.

      The reason being that, no matter if there is a hard or soft border, they will have to pay import charges on every drop of Scottish Whisky, Gin, Beer, Ale and every other Scottish thing they now re-export, as English exports, via English ports and airports.

      They will also, as operating the production and bottling plants in Scotland, maintain a Scottish registered Head Office for tax and excise purposes. They will also, of course, have to join the very back of the Queue applying for Scottish entry and attain all the qualifications, including currency, before they can be accepted as a Scottish Company.

    65. dakk says:

      Re Diageo,I happen to know loads of masonic o/o uber Britnat Rangets fans who work at the Port Dundas operation.

      Ive always thought it bit strange as many of them were taken on when it was Guiness years ago.

      I shouldve kmown better.Things are never quite what they seem in Britworld.

    66. Stoker says:

      Thanks, Chris! 🙂

      To ronnie anderson on 11 February, 2017 at 11:16 am:

      Re; Scotch Whisky – That’s the impression i was under.
      Are they breaking rules/laws?

      To anyone else:

      Can someone verify the following for me? Have 16 & 17-year olds got permanent voting rights now or was that just for Indyref2014? I’m thinking Council Elections?

    67. Ken500 says:

      Phone up the council?

    68. Thepnr says:


      The number of cancelled elective operations are revealed quarterly for the NHS in England. All the numbers you seek can be found here:

    69. liz says:

      Excellent Chris, thank you once again.

      I thought Hoyle was completely out of his depth.
      He acted in an hysterical manner, like he was scared things would get out of control under his watch- no doubt he would be told off for allowing yon SNP to have a voice

    70. galamcennalath says:

      Equal partners? An interesting insight into how South British Tories think ….

      “How far should we go to preserve the Union? Take our monthly survey. …. we’re partnering with the Centre for English Identity and Politics at Winchester University to ask a special series of questions about the current devolution settlement and the future of the Union.”

      You can look at the questions without answering. I find it fascinating, the wording, assumptions, the mindset.

      The (to my eyes) perverse statements, and the options to choose from, like question 2 on how you view the end of the Union. The only positive option is that it would ‘end the unreasonable demands on England’!

    71. carjamtic says:

      Nice Chris,but was the Speaker not ‘just doing his job’ ?

      Has he lost the ability to take responsibility for his own actions and moral decisions or is the role of the speaker,just to be an unthinking cog in the Westminster machine.

      With no more choice than a photocopier or a robotic vacuum cleaner ?

      Is it acceptable to advocate the policies of your employer then go home to friends and family and bitch ‘I didn’t agree with it’ ,but I was ‘just doing my job’ ?.

      I have no doubt,no doubt whatsoever,that the speaker is a lovely,lovely man and he was only ‘doing his job’…..I have heard this excuse,before,it sounds terrifyingly familiar,the ‘only doing my job’ mantra…..

      Can we,in all honesty,absolve him of all the responsibility,after all, it is a shitty job,right ? …..and simply blame the programmers ?.



    72. robertknight says:

      After the Scotch Whisky Association signed up to ‘Project Fear’ I haven’t touched the stuff.

      Plenty of alternatives out there.

    73. Ken500 says:

      IR corporation tax 12.5%. (Or Non ) Against EU fair trade rules. Most countries (EU) set it at (20%) as a fair amount. The UK Westminster Gov doesn’t enforce UK tax Laws. Westminster unionists and their associates tax evade That illegally funds their Parties. That is why they want out of the EU. To misuse UK taxpayers money. Especially in Scotland, Barnett Formula. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

    74. Skip_NC says:

      Capella, you raise a very good point. For a multi-national company, having a Dutch subsidiary works very well. The idea is that the Dutch subsidiary owns the trading subsidiaries in other countries. When those trading companies make profits, they pay their dividends to the Dutch subsidiary. So far, so humdrum. Dutch (and Belgian) tax laws are such that it costs less in tax to move the money via the Netherlands than it does if the money were moved directly. The Dutch Treasury takes a small cut for facilitating this wheeze. So more profits accrue to the British-taxed company, which increases British tax take.

      This, in my view, is a legitimate tax avoidance measure – no one should be forced to pay more tax on their orofits than is ultimately necessary. I have not yet looked at the article linked further up as I’m about to attend a b’nai mitzvah. If I survive the tequila shots, I will take a look. However, consider this. In a post-Brexit, post-union Scotland, perhaps whisky producers will be keen to have a head-office presence in Scotland. In that case, substitute British for Scottish and salivate over the benefit to the Scottish Treasury.

    75. Capella says:

      @ Ken500 – it’s Saturday. Council offices are closed. Maybe Stoker’s in a hurry!
      Google to the rescue. Yes.

    76. Stoker says:

      Capella on 11 February, 2017 at 12:26 pm:

      Thank you! Still sleepy so Google too technical for me at the mo.

      Ditto to Ken500, plus see Capella’s response, way beyond my mind.

      English neighbour has asked me for some 25mm SNP badges and i’m trying to work out how many to give her, she has a 16-year old granddaughter she’s quite close to.

    77. Tam Jardine says:

      re Diageo I think some perspective is required. Firstly- 90% of members of Scotch Whisky Association were against brexit. Unlike the 4x more important market pish- the main export for whisky and gin is the EU.

      I read a report saying they had changed their stance on indy and would no longer oppose it- whether that is still policy or not if any vast company is going to get behind Scotland in EU surely it is Diageo.

      Businesses are not xenophobic or isolationist – they want to make money and keep costs down. I would be surprised if erecting trade barriers with the EU is in their ideal business plan.

      So they have some daft marketing strategy with bells and the apron- so what? They also own major brands like Gordons and Tanquery which are now distilled up here.

      Scotland is the largest spirit producing country in Europe. The largest exporter. Diageo is an ugly big corporation but we could do with a few ugly big corporations getting on board.

      I am sure the UK government and Scottish government will be courting them and I also reckon article 50 will concentrate minds for key Scottish industries such as spirits.

      Let’s wait till they take a position in indy ref 2 before calling for boycotts. I am sure execs in Diageo will be pissed at hard brexit just like most others up here.

    78. Fergie MacDonald says:

      the westminster old boys club!

      To secure an empire the English invaded others, divided and rules and then made the elite of those countries honorary English.

      Kill their culture and make them in your own image.

      You look at Scottish (I use the term Scottish loosely) tory mps sent to westminster down the years, ex public school boys with upper class English accents, nothing remotely close in accent to a Scots’ accent.

      You look at Scottish (I use the term Scottish loosely) labour ops sent to westminster down the years, they ten aspired to be like their tories pals and the accent changes and before we know it, they are dressed in an ermine robe bestowing the benefits of the honours systems.

      Thankfully the SNP have distanced themselves from the above nonsense and will not take seats in the lords.

      Time is now fast approaching when SNP should be recalled from westminster, there is no point them being there if they are merely perpetuating the illusion of democracy, consultation and fair play for Scotland in English elites’ spiritual home.

    79. Capella says:

      @ Skip_NC – have a good b’nai mitzvah – and check out who makes the tequila. Not Diageo I trust.

      The article seems to be saying that Diageo pays 2% corporation tax. Rather lower than the rest of us. But I’m no economist.
      We are having a debate over here about how much trade is attributed to Scotland and the figures are not transparent.

      Despite average annual profits of almost £2bn over the last decade, its accounts disclose a mere £43m a year in average UK corporation tax charges. This is little more than 2% of its profits…
      Leaving aside legitimate allowances against profits, such a difference could be said to represent a notional “tax gap” of more than £100m a year. It takes 20,000 ordinary British households paying income tax to fill such a gap.

    80. Nana says:


      Craig Murray speaking at the Edinburgh SNP Club. Making the case that indyref2 needs OSCE observers.

    81. heedtracker says:

      Quality satire. Grotesque to watch though. I cant help seeing this dude in a hooded monks habit, Star Wars style too.

    82. nodrog says:

      Contempt well demonstrated Chris – thank you. I wonder if the 350,000 adopted Scots who voted NO in 2014 would like to chance their luck with the English NHS.

    83. DerekM says:

      @ Tam

      lol i cant help it Tam i am a Whisky snob.

      Ban the blend i say,bad Whiskey should never be mixed with good it should get flushed or turned into drain cleaner imo.

      I know they kid on that they blend it to get a better flavour blah blah blah but we all know its so they can flog the bad batches.

    84. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Capella

      Re: Diageo tax – they probably stick a whole bunch of that profit into investing in their current operations or building new ones, turning once taxable profit it into an untaxable expenditure. Amazon do that a lot. Then there’s the tax havens, of course. All perfectly above board.

    85. Dr Jim says:

      EU legal branding protection will be gone after Brexit so the Brits will be able to stick their Union flag on any product they want and who’s to stop them
      This rebranding has been going on for some time now after a directive from Camerons government

      Scotland was in a political union at one time, now we’re in a dictatorship. where are the products with the cross of St George emblazened on them why are the English ashamed of their own country that they have to rebrand a geographical location as an identity when four individual identities already existed and were told they should be proud to be so at one time, but it seems no longer

      The pride in ones country is now to be discouraged as it’s disloyalty and replaced by a new loyalty order which is to subsume all other identities

      Britains diversity of cultures and customs from all areas used to be seen as a strength now it’s viewed as anti English
      Where are the Welsh Flags the Irish flags the Saltires to be put now
      This is not just about us Scots this is about moderate people everywhere, English people who would have their own flag waved and why shouldn’t they

      One flag one Nation one Britain with no dissenting voices
      have we not seen this before and one of the main aims of the European Union was to make sure we never saw it again
      but our glorious new TorKip party has a vision of a new way forward a way that excludes co-operation a way that silences opposition a way they hope that leads to lasting power……. in the new Order

      Exaggeration?…. No it’s not!

    86. Dorothy Devine says:

      aw! Dr Jim I was depressed enough already and you have added an extra weight.

    87. manandboy says:

      Chris Cairns – razor sharp political comment in a drawing. It’s Art.

      O/T. As Democracy turns to dust in the House of Commons, are US financial and economics commentators correct when they forecast severe breakdown in 2017, and should we in Scotland pay more attention to overseas commentators, given the highly restricted and biased nature of mainstream UK media.

      There doesn’t appear to be an American equivalent to the UK Think Tank structure, eg. The Institute for Fiscal Studies or The Allander Institute. Instead, outside Government and the Federal Reserve / Banks, there are many people who study, research and track movement in the markets and in politics, and report to the public, as well as private individuals for a fee, about their findings.

      These ‘experts’ also appear regularly on American web-based broadcast outlets, like:-
      Greg Hunter (USA
      Paul Craig Roberts,(
      The X22 Report Spotlight
      Katherine Austin Fitts (, to name but 4 of many.

      One thing they all talk about is the dire condition of ‘the global economy’ and the interdependence between countries, markets and economies. Just think back to the global shock waves after the EU referendum vote in England /the UK. In so many ways, countries are linked financially and economically, and even politically. The EU, the UK, the US, China, Russia, all trade with one another and host each other’s companies and workers. So if one sneezes, they all catch the cold.

      Well, according to US forecasters, what’s coming in 2017 is a very bad attack of economic flu which will be with us in the global economy for quite some time.
      On top of that, Brexit will cause carnage all on its own here in Scotland, UNLESS we vote for Independence.

      Even some of the Loyalists are getting the message. The tide must have turned if that’s the case.

    88. Roboscot says:

      Looking forward to the BBC’s new series ‘Great British Whisky’ and ‘Britain’s Greatest Distilleries’

    89. nodrog says:

      Hi “manandboy” I watched a tv documentary the other night I believe it was by Katy Adler, but not sure about that, it was about the EU. It focused on the disappointment, particularly in Italy, France and Hungary with the negative impact of the Euro on their economies. It certainly backs up your blog.

    90. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clydebuilt says: 11 February, 2017 at 9:02 am:

      First of all Well done Chris, You highlight perhaps the most important political event in the UK for a very long time.

      … Too good for the Herald……..
      Analysis of this by GA Add to Ponsonby at.”

      I just realised last night, after speaking to a local indy supporter, that he was outraged at that Westminster incident but had not really realised its full implications.

      May I make the implications clear? If you already know the facts just scroll on by.

      It is the rules of the Westminster debating chamber that when a member is called to speak in a debate they stand to speak. At this point control of the time that member remains on their feet passes from the speaker to the member on their feet.

      This is why other members must request the member to take interruptions. Only the member has the choice to grant or deny the interruption.

      The member also cannot be prevented from speaking by the speaker. They can talk as long as they wish, with or without interruptions. This is the basis of, “Filibustering”, where a speaker, or succession of speakers, remains on their feel and, “Talks out”, a debate to prevent others, or indeed prevent a bill being passed.

      The Unionists in collaboration with the speaker had filibustered the SNP members the previous day and were attempting to also do so on the amendments that the SNP themselves had raised.

      This done with the speaker NOT calling SNP members to speak on their own amendments and calling even minor parties to ramble on when the SNP are the third largest party in the house.

      Thus, when the deputy speaker prevented Ms Cherry from speaking he was breaking parliamentary rules. Which was the, “Point of Order”, properly called by Alex Salmond.

      Which raises another common misunderstood point. Points of Order, particularly as so often wrongly called by members of the Labour Party, are only correctly called if they relate to breaches of the orders. That applies to any meeting anywhere. A point of order is only valid if it relates to the orders of the meeting.

      Yet there was so much unionist shouting down of Mr Salmond many people could not hear that he had called a point of order and points of order must be dealt with before any further business.

      The fact is that if Ms Cherry had the stamina she could have remained on her feet and refused to take interruptions until that debate in parliament ended. i.e. she could have filibustered until the debate was talked out.

      This only highlights the incident when the parliamentary session first opened. The SNP, correctly, took their seats in the chamber as the third largest party in the house.

      There was much trouble made because the LibDems were not prepared to give up their place as the third largest party and further trouble made because of an old established MP who had been defying parliament protocols by sitting in the same seat and not with his own party.

      So this latest incident shows that Westminster is attempting to apply one set of rules to others and another to the SNP.

      This is grist to the mill for taking to the EU as a demonstration of a denial of democracy to Scots.

    91. Meg merrilees says:

      Great cartoon -as ever. Caught the “looking down one’s nose” aspect perfectly!

      Incidentally folks,
      Is ‘The Herald’ headline an ‘Alternative Fact’? “1 -in-3 Scots …. ”

      The article clearly states ‘One third of audiences think(s) the BBC is biased’.. agin
      Indy and then goes on to state that 25% of Scots think it is biased agin Indy.

      What is the make-up of these audiences?
      Were they 100% Scottish, in which case the headline is accurate.
      If not, then it should read 1 in 4 Scots thinks the BBC is biased etc..

      Who proof-reads these things these days, anyone?

      C’mon the Welsh!

      Craig P @8.59

      Macallan – now you’re talking!!!

      When I was wee my Granda used to put whisky on mouth ulcers if we had them — ooo ouch! nearly pout me off for life until I discovered Macallan.

      Scorates @11.13

      Totally agree. I wrote to Nicholas Soames MP re the Tasmina ‘woof woof’ matter. I put my point across firmly but politely, I also wrote that as an MP elected to represent others, I respected his position. Felt better after as i had actually done something about it.

    92. Clydebuilt says:

      From NO to YES

      David Tenant has come out for an Independent Scotland……. A lifelong Labour man….

    93. Dr Jim says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Sorry Dorothy don’t know what came over me, it was gloomy but it just fell out of my fingers uncontrollably
      I’ll go back to sarcastic jibing humour later that’s always lots of fun and as you say less weighty on the napper in the morning

    94. geeo says:


      Yes, 16/17 year olds CAN vote in the council election in May.

    95. Proud Cybernat says:

      *** BREAKING ***

      BBC R2 ‘news’ – new law being formulated. Anyone leaking any sensitive Government information RE: BREXIT negotiations could go to jail.

      Welcome to Airstrip One.

    96. K1 says:

      ‘This is grist to the mill for taking to the EU as a demonstration of a denial of democracy to Scots.

      Aye Robert ah see whit ye mean, our representatives are being silenced thereby our polity is being denied representation at Westminster.

      As constituents, policies harmful to us are being forced upon us by a government and parliament that is deliberately obstructing our MP’s sworn duty to voice our concerns and any ‘amendments’ to those harmful policies, are being deliberately ignored to the ‘direct’ detriment of those who reside in Scotland.


      Excellent Chris, Hoyle was raging when he got caught out by the force of Alex’s point of order, ye could see him struggling to put his ‘professional hat’ back on in the midst of his vitriolic outpouring as he was in ‘fact’ ‘out of order’. Prick.

    97. liz says:

      Every weekend now, Andra Neil is on twitter runnibg Scotland down.

      Today we are ‘at the back of the queue’.
      We have the ‘largest deficit in the EU and they know it’.

      He has turned into THE biggest anti-Scottish troll on social media, why?

    98. Robert Peffers says:

      @liz says: 11 February, 2017 at 12:04 pm:

      “I thought Hoyle was completely out of his depth.”

      Very perceptive Liz. I’ve already explained why but I’ll reiterate slightly.

      The Speaker, or deputy Speaker, is supposed to know the orders of the parliament and he had just been caught out breaking the rules. Whether deliberate or not he was very much in breach of Parliamentary protocols.

      There is no better authority of the rules of parliament than Alex Salmond. Not for the first time has he called out a speaker that was a damned site better informed the present incumbent and his deputies.

      The speaker has no authority to stop a speaker unless the speaker is breaking parliamentary rules. When he calls someone to speak he is first of all supposed to be even handed so that the member and party whose name the debate is in is the first person to speak. Then he is supposed to moderate the debate so that, depending on the subject matter. all sides of the debate get a fair share of the time.

      On the first day the SNP had been squeezed out and, as the third largest party in the house, should have had at least a third of the members called to speak, (and not as happened), too few too late at night.

      As for the unionist parties they were, “filibustering”, basically blethering any old shite to prevent the SNP getting to speak.

      So when Ms Cherry was called the real rules of the game are that she, and not the speaker, have control of whether she takes interruptions or not and when she has finished what she wants to say, (an exception being if there is a set time limit laid down for all speakers before the debate begins).

      So the deputy speaker was indeed out of order that the deputy speaker is supposed to uphold when he told Ms Cherry to sit down. He was further out of order when Ms Cherry called him out and insisted she be allowed her say.

      Then he further made a bad mistake when Mr Salmond raised a point of order, even if it was difficult to hear for the braying of unionist donkeys, for a point of order must take precedence.

      He then got into even more trouble by inferring Alex had used unparliamentarily language.

      All in all a bad day for the Westminster Mother of Parliaments – bit like a wicked step-mother if fact.

      He acted in an hysterical manner, like he was scared things would get out of control under his watch …

      Err! As just explained he had, all by himself, taken things right out of hand and the hand they were out of was/is his.

      All without even considering that the unionist plot to prevent the SNP speaking on their own amendments was going right down the sheuch.

      Both Ms Sherry & Mr Salmond were 100% correct and both acted 100% with proper decorum.

    99. Artyhetty says:

      Great image Chris. That guy acted totally unprofessionally in losing his temper and by displaying such anger and obvious contempt for Scotland’s MP’s. Utter disgrace. Remember these people ar paid a massive sum from public funds, and look at how they conduct themselves in such positions of power. Disgraceful, and no doubt what he displayed is the tip of the iceberg.

      His outrage was indictative of the deep seated contempt and arrogance, that the unionists feel towards Scotland. They absolutely cannot abide the fact that we have 56 MP’s in WM, who are not there to nod their heads, say ‘here,here’, then go to the subsidised bar and restaurants, then pick up a generous wage for the privelege. Our MP’s are there to work for the Scottish people, and to take the unionists to task for shafting Scotland as they have done for 300+ years now.

      Really, by having the 56 in Westminster, and only 3 unionists from Scotland, it is obvious that Scotland is so not part of the english establishment, and very much on a different, more positive path. A life affirming, striving for and working for an equal, successful society.

      Westminster thrives on it’s very very, top down tactic.
      No thanks.

    100. gus1940 says:

      Re Brillo’s regular Twitter tirade against The SNP is it not the case that The BBC should do the same as STV did with Daisley i.e. demand that he makes up his mind to either excrete his personal political propaganda on Twitter or continue with his job as a supposedly (stop laughing at the back)neutral BBC political broadcaster.

    101. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 11 February, 2017 at 12:07 pm:

      ” … Equal partners? An interesting insight into how South British Tories think ….
      “How far should we go to preserve the Union? Take our monthly survey. …. “

      I did their survey. I don’t think they will like the answers – well they did ask? They will like it even less if they use my email address that they me asked for.

    102. heedtracker says:

      He has turned into THE biggest anti-Scottish troll on social media, why?

      Because he knows that his BBC has destroyed progressive liberal England. Now its our turn.

    103. Nana says:

      @Proud Cybernat 2.02pm

      Blimey is that’s how its going to be, no one dare shine a light on tory brexit. During our indyref they demanded every little detail be published and will again demand the same for indy2.

    104. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      Re; Prof Curtice this morning reminded us on BBC Scotland that Nicola Sturgeon would be taking a huge risk going for IndyRef2 with ONLY 47% in support of it at the moment.

      Is this guy for real? Alex Salmond went for IndyRef1 on 27% support.

      And Andrew Neil is forever telling us that Marine Le Pen can win the French Presedential elections and she is only on 26% support.

    105. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Nana,

      “…During our indyref they demanded every little detail be published and will again demand the same for indy2.”

      We’ve just to do as they say, not as they do.

    106. Undeadshuan says:

      Did survey give email as fuck [dot] off [at] torywankers [dot] com


    107. liz says:

      @Robert Peffers- thanks again for your informative post.

      @nodrog – LOLZ. That programme on the EU was a complete travesty and propaganda, trying to reassure the Brexiters,they have made the right decision.

      The vote in Italy was against centralising power in Rome not against the EU, something which the autonomous regions were never going to agree with- Matteo Renzi testing the waters, perhaps.

      Support for the EU in all European countries has increased since Brexit.
      PS Not disagreeing that the Euro situation needs improving

    108. Robert Peffers says:

      @carjamtic says: 11 February, 2017 at 12:08 pm:

      “Nice Chris,but was the Speaker not ‘just doing his job’ ?
      Has he lost the ability to take responsibility for his own actions and moral decisions or is the role of the speaker,just to be an unthinking cog in the Westminster machine.”

      The point, carjamtic, is that first of all the deputy speaker, whether by fault, omission or design, was NOT doing his job. I’ve done two comments already so won’t add any more but he was wrong in several ways.

      Which was why Alex Salmond correctly called him out with a point of order and the deputy speaker even made a mess of that by falsely attempting to claim Alex had used unparliamentarily language.

      As speakers go I cannot recall such a bad car crash ever before. That was without doubt the worst example of any speaker or deputy speaker I can ever remember.

      He did not know the rules. He did not apply the rules and he totally lost the plot and control of the situation.

      You may have noticed that Alex nearly burst a blood vessel for no one in parliament knows the rules of the game better than he. He has used his knowledge to great advantage many times before.

      It was a young Alex who forced a treasury minister to admit that Scotland was not the poor relation by use of parliamentary protocols. Alex knows the rules better than anyone else in the house.

      Cannot remember the Treasury Minister’s name at the moment and the internet never wants to remember such things.

    109. ScottishPsyche says:

      Beautifully drawn and to the point.

      Andrew Neil arguing over whether a list was a queue today and then threatening to block Michael Gray for pointing out his error(s) is why I cannot trust the BBC for news and analysis.Even if they get the odd thing right the lack of balance and spin is too much. Question Time this week will be a test.

      In view of their global membership and branches outwith Scotland, I wonder if the next time the SNP consider changing names they should consider the Scottish International Party? I would love to hear the Yoons sneering about the ‘Internationalists’.

    110. Chick McGregor says:

      Another great cartoon.

      I thought he was going to burst a blood vessel when he screamed at the impromptu SNP choir to stop singing Ode to Joy during the vote.

      Also noted the blackout on the episode on e.g. The Brillo Show despite having Bercow’s applause well highlighted.

      Also noted reporting on Beckham’s ‘knighthood’ emails without mentioning the anti-indy aspect.

    111. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      I think the Tory minister you refer to was William Waldergrave.

      See here:

    112. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      So Andrew Neil trolling on Twitter again.

      He reminds me of Trump,always right,shouts, repeats himself endlessly,strange hair.

      Are they related?

    113. dakk says:

      @Elizabeth Stanley

      ‘He reminds me of Trump,always right,shouts, repeats himself endlessly,strange hair.’

      You forgot the trophy wife.

      Repulsive old lecher.

    114. carjamtic says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      Yes,Robert agree 100 % (often accused by those who know me of being too ‘cryptic’ or too ‘sarky’ when attempting making a point,my apologies).

      Proud Cybermat @ 3:12

      That’s for the link,essential reading.

    115. heedtracker says:

      Repulsive old lecher.

      He’s off the leash now, well they all are, but his BBC politics lunchtime shows are truly astonishing displays of tory BBC bias. Ligger is now essentially Trump, Mayhem, Farage spokesman on BBC shows.

    116. carjamtic says:

      Proud Cybernat…. I should have gone to…..


    117. call me dave says:

      From the Herald: New article about an hour ago.
      You can read the articles on ‘incognito setting’ chrome but can’t archive.

      There is “no reason” an independent Scotland would not be accepted into the European Union, a key European Commission representative has said.

      Jacqueline Minor, head of representation for the European Commission in the UK, said the country would be “starting from a point different from other applicant countries” due to its current EU membership.

      Speaking on the BBC’s Good Morning Scotland programme Ms Minor was asked whether an independent Scotland would enter the EU.

      She said: “I think, had Scotland achieved independence, there would be no reason why it would not be accepted into the normal accession process.”

      Ms Minor was then asked if Scotland would be prioritised in the accession process to the EU.

      She added: “I think, obviously, there are some things that would facilitate that process, namely that Scotland would at a previous point have been aligned with the European acquis.

      “So it would have a familiarity with European processes, it would probably still have on its statute books a fair amount of European rules, which would mean it was starting from a point different from other applicant countries, who normally have to go through the entire process of aligning their rules with European rules.”

      SNP MSP Stuart McMillan said: “This is an important intervention, which makes clear that, as an existing member of the EU, Scotland would be in a completely different situation from other countries seeking membership.

      “There is no ‘queue’ to join the EU. There is a process, and a country must be in line with the requirements of membership – which Scotland, as a full part of the EU up until this point, already is.

    118. Gary45% says:

      Another Classic Chris, Nice one.
      Regarding Bells, I would only use it for making Toddies, I refer to it and Grouse as Toddy-water.

    119. stewartb says:

      Effijy @11:48 am

      For data on cancelled operations, have you seen the following?

      The most recent data on NHS Scotland’s performance regarding cancelled planned operations are available at .

      In December 2016, of 27,153 planned ops, 1,084 (4.0%) were cancelled by the patient; 920 (3.4%) were cancelled based on clinical reasons by the hospital; (only) 644 (2.4%) were cancelled by the hospital due to capacity or non-clinical reasons; 90 (0.3%) were cancelled due to other reasons.

      Performance data on cancelled operations (and all other performance measures) for each NHS Scotland hospital, for each Board and for Scotland as a whole can be found at – also gives access to graphs which show performance over time. This is a really user friendly source of up-to-date ‘official’ stats.

      Since October 2015, the percentage of planned operations cancelled for non-clinical reasons across all of NHS Scotland has been between 1.7% and 2.4%, except for July 2016 when the monthly figure was 3%.

      Clearly there was some kind of unacceptable crisis in July 2016: did BBC Reporting Scotland do its duty and expose this?

    120. heedtracker says:

      SNP MSP Stuart McMillan said: “This is an important intervention, which makes clear that, as an existing member of the EU, Scotland would be in a completely different situation from other countries seeking membership.

      Its going to be a seamless rejoin or Remain, as so much EU legislation, regulation and Law, is Scots too.

      One of the may reasons its going to take a decade at least for England to Leave, is because of all of the above. Brexit is a bureaucrats dream. But the Great Reform Bill is a clear and present danger to Scottish democracy and Holyrood. Watch Barnett coming under attack/reform. Anything that damages Scotland’s economics is going to damage SNP Scots gov.

      SLab and Ruthie babes only have to be patient, through the tory Westminster lense, peering at its Scotland region of greater England. BBC Scotland are wearing kid gloves right now, although it may not feel like it.

    121. Meg merrilees says:

      Ireland/ Italy rugby match just finished. Ireland won by 63 :10

      The Irish chap commentating on BBC Radio 5 was so excited he said :

      “. and Ireland have bounced back and have not disappointed in Rome, what an amazing scoreline, Ireland 10-Italy 63.
      It’s worth saying again, Ireland 10- Italy 63 that score gives you some idea of the quality of the match we’ve seen here today..”

      Alternative facts?… I know it was just a slip…

    122. Ken500 says:

      A. Neil is a Tory Thatcher supporter. He is seeking attention because his programmes have such low viewing figures. Sinking like a tank. Do not watch BBC programmes which offend. Neil is an obsessive alcoholic. Alcoholics make poor decisions without proper ‘total abstinence’ rehab counselling. No impartial BBC policies or employee support. Illegal.

      The Whisky Association has opposed minimum pricing in the courts. Costing Scotland £1Billion a year. £4Billion. More than any benefit of production.

    123. galamcennalath says:

      Bells – cooking whisky.

      Bells was allegedly Thatcher’s favourite. Enough said.

    124. Proud Cybernat says:

      Herald EU article archived…

    125. Orri says:

      The deputy speaker knew damn well what the rules are. That’s why he attempted to get Cherry to sit down by the subterfuge of checking something. He then deliberately missunderstood her saying she would be brief. The sheer fucking arrogance that somehow the SNP should be grateful for being allowed to speak at all is, saddly, not beyond belief.

    126. Stoker says:

      Tea break for me, just catching up:

      geeo on 11 February, 2017 at 1:57 pm:

      Thank you!

      K1 (and others)

      How’s this for a mad-cap idea? Why don’t we just say feck Warminster, order all our talented politicians home, and focus on Holyrood and Scotland from now on? Start with using the talent to oust all the deadwood gophers. I think that would give them all a severe dose of the runs.

      stewartb and Effijy:

      I know that in my own Scottish Borders region in 2016 there was over 6200 lost outpatient appointments due to folk not turning up for appointments and failing to notify NHS Borders. This costs NHS Borders something in the region of £1-million per year.

      Strange how we never see the BUM banging on about these matters, isn’t it? Well, not strange at all really, that’s because ‘Joe Bloggs’ is at fault and they haven’t yet worked out how to spin it into blaming the SNP.

    127. call me dave says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      OK spill the beans. Herald archiving? 🙂

      Or did you find it elsewhere.

      PS: Whisky

      The MaCallan always.

      Blends: Islay Mist and Black Bottle.

    128. Valerie says:

      Bit of cheer on the Brilliant attempt to troll on Twitter and insist we had to queue. He has had his arse handed to him quite comprehensively by our independent media, and some academics.

      Remember when the time comes for funding, and put your little bit in, it’s worth every penny for this –

    129. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Call Me Dave

      “@Proud Cybernat

      OK spill the beans. Herald archiving?

      Just a wee workaround. Simply screen snapped the article, cropped slightly (to get rid of annoying adverts), saved as .PNG file and uploaded to IMGUR.

      2 minutes work. Eezy-peezy-lemon-squeezy.

      I wonder if it’ll annoy The Herald?

    130. Legerwood says:

      Stewart b @ 4.14

      “”Clearly there was some kind of unacceptable crisis in July 2016: did BBC Reporting Scotland do its duty and expose this?””

      Aye, I think it is called the summer holidays.

    131. Conan the Librarian says:

      I worked in the whisky industry for a while, before the inevitable redundancy; Thatcher was PM after all.

      It was well known then that Bell’s were “hurrying along” the the maturation in their grain whisky(whisky needs three years in cask before it graduates from grain spirit).

      Guinness took over Distillers, then Bells…

      “Ernest Walter Saunders (born 21 October 1935) is a British former business manager, best known as one of the “Guinness Four”, a group of businessmen who attempted fraudulently to manipulate the share price of the Guinness company. He was sentenced to five years’ imprisonment, but released after 10 months as he was believed to be suffering from Alzheimer’s disease, which is incurable. He subsequently made a full recovery.

    132. scottieDog says:

      @call me dave
      Ref the EU, msm and muppets like Ian Duncan MEP are in effect saying that a country who’s citizens and businesses already comply with EU laws are to be stripped of their citizenship.
      You can’t make it up, but they do!

      The EU needs a happy story and that is us.

    133. Still Positive says:

      Re cancelled operations.

      Almost 10 years ago, I had a hip resurfacing and went in at short notice because the lady who was supposed to have her op had it cancelled for clinical reasons.

      I had had my pre-op the day before and was not too happy at having to wait another 2 weeks for my planned op.

      They phoned me about 8am to ask if I would come in on stand-by, so obviously I agreed.

      They confirmed about 9.30am and as I had no-one to take me up, they sent a taxi. Cheaper than having a surgeon having an afternoon on the golf course.

      So, often they will try the next patients on the list to avoid cancellations.

    134. Stoker says:

      WOS archive links now over on O/T.

    135. call me dave says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      I suppose a child of 5 can do that…. I’ll go outside and find one to help me.

      OK I’ll have a go at that tomorrow. 🙂

    136. Liz Rannoch says:

      Great cartoon (or lampoon) Chris.

      That hand!!? How do you manage to get so much disdain and contempt into a drawing? Talking of which, I’d really love to see the SNP start to be a wee bit mair bolshie.

      Just before Nicola does decide the date, in the PMQs before that, I’d love for Angus Robertson to stand up and ask ‘Why, if Scotland is such a basket case, do you want to hang on to us? Is it our energy, our whisky … Oh and by the way, I know you’ll say that we will be out of the EU, but I think the people of Scotland will decide’.

      Hubby is quite happy wi’ his Black Bottle but whit am I gonnae dae aboot ma Cap’n Morgans and Bailleys?

    137. mike cassidy says:

      Some arsehole gets handed his …

      Small pleasures, people.

    138. robertknight says:

      O/T Because ‘the cousins’ didn’t want their whisk(e)y having a cloudy haze once the inevitable ice cubes were added, “chill-filtering” was introduced, which removes the lipids, (a group of naturally occurring molecules that include fats, waxes, sterols, fat-soluble vitamins, monoglycerides, diglycerides, triglycerides, phospholipids, and others), and a good deal of the colour from the finished product.

      To get over the problem of the lack of colour, (never mind the reduction in taste), caused by this process and the fact that aged barrels will never give the same amount of colouration after repeated use, giving rise to issues surrounding consistency, a spirit caramel is added to the finished product – it usually appears on labels as E150a (b/c/d versions also exist), but you’ll likely only see it on bottles destined for Germany or Denmark – where the presence of caramel additives must appear on the label by law.

      If you really want to taste whisky, try a non-chill filtered version, usually one >46% abv.

      (Be warned, it’ll be the same as drinking a bottle of 2004 Dom Perignon then having to go back to Moët et Chandon – you’ll end up sprinkling the latter on your chips!).

    139. Liz g says:

      Liz Rannoch @ 5.48
      No Bailey’s……We need tae rethink this boycott thing.
      Anybody got a recipe for Atholl Brose …. I here it’s the Scot’s version???

    140. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Valerie Andrew Neil’s like the Paisley Tartan, wee Tadpoles that shouldn’t have reached maturity ‘

    141. call me dave says:


      My partner Karen got one of these for Christmas, she turned up her nose at first but after opening it and tasting, was very pleased. On the shopping list now.

    142. Lenny Hartley says:

      Baileys ? No wae try Arran Gold made with real Arran Malt whisky not with cheap grain spirit like Baileys. arran Gold is that good they even have it in ?Ice Cream 🙂 also as per Robert Knights can confirm that Arran Malt does not add any additives , if you like Whiskey try Arran Malt it’s the best 🙂

    143. Robert Peffers says:

      @Roboscot says: 11 February, 2017 at 1:24 pm:

      “Looking forward to the BBC’s new series ‘Great British Whisky’ and ‘Britain’s Greatest Distilleries’”

      I believe they may already have commissioned some follow-up series. “The Traditional Great British St Andrew’s Night Celebrations”, and the “Traditional Great British Burn’s Supper Haggis Bake-Off”.

      Then perhaps a series of “The Great British Highland Games”, sponsored by Her Great British Majesty Queen Elizabeth II of Britain”. (First episode live from the Braemar Highland Games).

      Aiblins ye micht jalous the Inglis maun bi aa puckle fashious an girnie wi the BBC sae ae sided tae Scotland, but?

      Owersettin intil the Inglis, “Perhaps you might imagine the English might be a little peevish and weepie with the BBC so one sided towards Scotland, though”?

      Ah’ll get ma plaidie!

    144. Conan the Librarian says:

      English rugby commentators in full hagiographic flow now.

    145. Gary45% says:

      call me Dave @4.42.
      Not sure what their allegiance is but “Gods water” has to be Scapa from Orkney closely followed by Highland Park.
      Both very Num Num.
      As already mentioned “Macallan” it was my favourite for years until they were bought over and sacked most of the staff, I vowed there and then never to purchase another bottle.

      For the “shandy drinkers” there was a beautiful liqueur called “The Wallace” a few years back, I have no idea why it was taken off the market, but then again it may have been something to do with the title.

    146. K1 says:

      Oh I loved that Mike!

      His days are numbered on the ‘circuit’ in the States, people like Peirs Morgan are the reason that the ‘right wing’ pish has edged it’s way into the mainstream, so good to see him getting his arse handed to them by all of them.

      But especially the Australian guy as Piers fell back on the ‘classic’ Trumpism ‘people won’t like you anymore if you say this that or the other’, you’ll ‘lose’ your audience. Well he certainly showed him…and when he gave him the finger at the end! Fucking brilliant!

    147. Dorothy Devine says:

      I’ll back Lenny’s Arran any day!

    148. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 11 February, 2017 at 3:12 pm:

      @ Robert Peffers
      I think the Tory minister you refer to was William Waldergrave.
      See here:

      Thank you, Proud Cybernat. My memory is not usually so bad. I had, though, a very bad night and had little sleep. You got it in one. After posting here that I could not remember, I fell asleep and wakened much refreshed.

      I often wonder why a lot more was not made of the William Waldegrave, (now Baron Waldegrave of North Hill), incident in parliament by the SNP. Remembering of course that he was the father of the Poll Tax and catching him out by Alex was an epic moment.

    149. Meg merrilees says:

      Still positive

      re cancelled ops:

      I had a similar experience when on the waiting list for a transplant.

      I was first called in about 2.30 am on a wed and told I was on standby in case the transplant didn’t suit the person above me on the list. Fortunately it suited them so I was sent home about midday.

      4 days later I was called in about 5 pm and prepared for my op at midnight. However about 9pm that was altered to 5am owing to emergency surgeries that had come in.

      About midnight, the anaesthetist came personally to apologise because he had been in theatre all day, he would have to stop work half way through my op. Since it was crucial to have the same anaesthetist for the 8-12 hour op, they had to wait for the new shift coming on.

      I wonder how all that was recorded? Bottom line being, I had my op, 3 other emergencies had their ops and the first op was also successful on the weds.

      Just shows though, emergencies take precedence over nearly all planned ops and so they should. Also, just because an op is cancelled doesn’t mean the theatre is empty and the surgery team are skiving. Each case is unique and prob has a valid explanation.

    150. mike cassidy says:

      K1 6.49

      The Australian guy is standup Jim Jeffries –

      who knows a thing or two about dealing with the uncivilised.

    151. Meg merrilees says:

      Just been reading the BBC text commentary of the rugby England/Wales match.
      At 78 minutes when England pulls ahead 21:15 the commentary says:

      “The Principality is reeling”…

      you’ve got to hand it to them!

      Anybody hear the 6pm news?

      Tories are proposing a new law that says journalists and whistleblowers could be jailed for publishing leaked material, including Brexit documents.

      People who disclose information that could harm the UK’s economy could be jailed.
      An espionage act.

      Free speech society says it is clearly aimed at preventing people disclosing when the government is breaking the law.

      Wonder if the same will apply for anyone publishing material that could harm Scotland’s economy – which, of course, by association would harm the Uk’s economy?

      Will the tory muppets vote this through unopposed?

    152. K1 says:

      Yeah I’ve watched him before Mike, just couldn’t recall his name. Thanks. 🙂

    153. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 11 February, 2017 at 6:12 pm:

      “No Bailey’s……We need tae rethink this boycott thing.
      Anybody got a recipe for Atholl Brose …. I here it’s the Scot’s version???”

    154. Grouse Beater says:

      Lengthy entrance aside, a fine song if you root for Scotland:

    155. heedtracker says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      11 February, 2017 at 7:11 pm
      Just been reading the BBC text commentary of the rugby England/Wales match.
      At 78 minutes when England pulls ahead 21:15 the commentary says:

      “The Principality is reeling”…

      you’ve got to hand it to them!

      Wales is a UK principality Meg. NI’s a UK Provence. The differences are actually important legal states too. Tories in particular like to the say, the “4 nations” of the United Kingdom but that is some high grade tory bullshit, for obvious reasons.

      There are Welsh nats and they can look across Europe at actual nations of similar size to Wales, nations that are for wealthier, more equitable, far less poverty, much higher GDP’s and so on.

      Why does Wales keep voting Labour or swallow UKOK socio economics that makes them worse off than Romania and made then vote Leave too.

    156. Effijy says:

      Thanks Threpnr, but in the link “The figures shown are the number of last-minute cancelled elective operations for non-clinical reasons.

      But this cannot be anywhere near the total number of operations cancelled, i.e. Non-elective operations and operations not cancelled at the last minute.

      Who defines what last minute is?
      That day, 24 hours notice, 48 Hours, 1 week?

      For me it’s yet another Westminster, UK Media, NHS Trust cover up of just how desperately bad NHS England is.

      It may have to me made Top Secret like the Mc Crone Report, the Details behind who else was involved in the Dunblane Massacre, and of how Thatcher’s Son Mark’s employed won a multi-million pound foreign aid project that no one else was to tender for???

      What is 160 years of cover up and deceit between friends?

    157. Grouse Beater says:

      So far 5,000 hits from 33 countries, plus the UK, and climbing:

    158. heedtracker says:

      Graun says “The far right The Observer
      Britain’s extremist bloggers helping the ‘alt-right’ go global, report finds

      White nationalists and UK conspiracy theorists have helped spread fake news across the world, says anti-racist group Hope not Hate”

      How come the Scotland in Union far right creep show doesn’t make the Graun cut, for one?

    159. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 7.29
      Thank You Robert….. If I get around to makin it I will raise a toast to yir good health.

    160. Meg merrilees says:

      Heedtracker @7.30

      Thanks, I know it’s a Principality, I was making the point that the English seem to want to assert their dominance whenever possible.

      They could have just said…’Wales/the Welsh team is reeling’ but no, they have to rub it in.

      England is superior, it’s not enough to be winning, make sure the Welsh know their place too.


    161. Liz g says:

      Meg Merrilees @ 7.11
      Actually Met it’s no impossible that this new law is aimed at the Scottish MPs.

      They will have access to information and have no real reason to keep it quiet, espically if it is concerning Scotland.
      They are there to look out for us,and clearly won’t keep the establishments secrets!

      Unlike last time,we will have Yes people in Westminster during the Indy ref 2 Campaign, that’s got to spook them.

      Especially when they know that the MPs like to get drunk in the Westminster bars of an evening, and our MPs are always around!!!
      Gettin more interesting by the day.

    162. heedtracker says:

      Graun’s such a dirty outfit now. Graun hardly ever reports anything Scotland but any excuse to smear Scotland, they’re on it…

      “Scottish Calvinist Jim Dowson set up pro-Trump websites from a hub in Hungary. Photograph: YouTube”

    163. Andy-B says:

      Re the “Butchers Apron” anyone else notice, that supermarket products are covered in them.

      It’s a game of psycholog me thinks.

      Nice one Chris.

    164. Stoker says:

      Here’s a few alternatives for those of you not wanting to click on the direct link to the BUM rags making of ‘Atholl Brose’ at 7:29pm.

      In fact, folks, there are many results to choose from on Google if you just type How to make Atholl Brose and hit search, you don’t have to go anywhere near The Hootsman.

    165. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      How come the Scotland in Union far right creep show doesn’t make the Graun cut, for one?

      Good point.

      Perhaps it’s a case of “my enemy’s enemy”? When it comes down to it, fighting for the Union is a higher priority to them all than left-right squabbling!

      We have the evidence of BT where left-centre-right were willing to be bedfellows to retain control of Scotland by London.

    166. heedtracker says:

      Tory BBC very angry at Bercow but the narrator in this thing tonight, explaining Bercow’s Trump ban speech, explains how the Labour benches applauded Bercow, without making any mention the SNP, who really did applaud Bercow, very loudly, while the Labour MP’s probably did not. Tory liars are everywhere.

    167. heedtracker says:

      Andy-B says:
      11 February, 2017 at 8:08 pm
      Re the “Butchers Apron” anyone else notice, that supermarket products are covered in them.

      Morrison’s filled doughnuts, boxes of five, union jack boxes in Scotland, pretty pink striped patisserie boxes in England.

      Salted caramel, oh baby:D

    168. call me dave says:

      Henry McLeish:
      The five questions No voters must ask themselves to decide Scotland’s post-Brexit destiny.

      Aye Henry must have a sair erse sitting on that fence. His 5 questions are at the end.

      Bonus photo of Trump & May which seemed to upset my partner when she read it this morning. Optical illusion I told her… 🙂

    169. Tinto Chiel says:

      call me dave 6.23: the distaff side here like Coole Swan as an alternative to Bailey’s.

      I hope you subject it to rigorous analysis.

      Can’t be too careful…..

      Mind you, Stoker’s AB sounds good.

    170. Liz Rannoch says:

      @ Liz G 6.12 & call me dave 6.23

      Aye the sacrifices!

      Think I’ll be trying out the Dundaglan fae Lidl – bad words – nae Lidl here in Dunfermline – not a happy cat. Nearest store Kirkcaldy – hubby no happy wi’ a 26ml round trip for a bottle! Maybe try the Aldi one.

      Now.. whit aboot the Cap’n Morgans – gonnae by fun trying them all out.

    171. crazycat says:

      @ All those lamenting the unsuitability of Captain Morgan’s

      Have you tried Havana Club? It’s genuinely Cuban, unlike Bacardi.

      And for when you tire of Atholl Brose, there are plenty of recipes for home-made Bailey’s, including vegan ones. The ones I’ve tried were fairly convincing (ie just as sickly as the original 😉 ).

    172. Keith fae Leith says:

      Meg Merilees & Heedtracker:
      Principality is the sponsor that have naming rights for the old “Millenium” stadium, aka Cardiff Arms Park.

      Best rugby ground for atmosphere in the world, I’ve been to most contenders.

      I’m getting quite excited to see what happens after notification of A50 is given.

    173. Glamaig says:

      Tories and BBC are getting creepier by the day. On news channel the noo, the proposed criminalisation of leaks extends to whoever publishes or passes it on, it not just the original leaker.

      Sneaky creepy Tories think they are going to make different offers to all 27 EU countries and undermine their unity.

      Creepy Tory says Commonwealth immigration good, but only if theyre white. European immigration bad because although they are white, some of them arent rich enough.

    174. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 11 February, 2017 at 7:30 pm:

      “Wales is a UK principality Meg. NI’s a UK Provence. The differences are actually important legal states too.”

      Sorry, heedtracker, but you got that very, very wrong.

      Wales was an independent Principality with the Prince of Wales being a native born Welshman of Royal Welsh bloodline. Llywelyn ap Gruffudd (born 1223: died 11 December 1282), was Prince of Wales from 1258 until his death at Cilmeri in 1282.

      The Statute of Rhuddlan, (also known as the Statutes of Wales), provided the constitutional basis for the government of the Principality of North Wales from 1284 until 1536. The statute was enacted on 3 March 1284 and promulgated on 19 March at Rhuddlan Castle in North Wales, by Edward I.

      This Statute imposed the law of the Kingdom of England upon Wales. Subsequently the English Monarch swore to make the next Prince of Wales be a native born Welshman. However, when his queen was pregnant he sent her to Cardiff Castle to give birth so the next Prince of Wales was of full royal English blood but born in Wales.

      From then till now the first born son of the Monarch of England inherits the Title Prince of Wales and is heir to the English Crown. That is, today, Prince Charles. Wales is an English, not a United Kingdom princedom. 1284 was before the United Kingdom began.

      If they, (Westminster), claim it is then, as there are only two equally sovereign Kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union then the Kingdom of Scotland, on ending the Union, could legally claim a negotiated share of the Principality for Scotland.

      Similarly with The Crown of Ireland Act of 1542. It had nothing to do with the Kingdom of Scotland and it made all Ireland part of the Kingdom of Ireland before the United Kingdom was formed in 1706/7. The partition of Ireland did not create a new kingdom and the so called, “Anglo Irish Treaty of Union”, was not even a treaty but was simply an act of the United Kingdom Parliament. The two opposing sides were both parts of the United Kingdom as they were the opposing parts of a civil war between the North & South of Ireland which was still all part of the United Kingdom until 1938 and the declaration by the South of the Republic of Ireland. The Irish Free State was not free but a UK dominion.

      It’s that alternative truth thing again.

      Northern Ireland is an English Province and Wales an English Principality. If they are not claimed by England when the United Kingdom disunites would Scotland really want either? Unless, of course either or both had a majority that requested to be Scottish. I think that unlikely.

    175. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “that’s Tanqueray… my list” says @Dorothy Devine at 11:36 am. You should try Rose Rock Gin from Dunnet Bay Distillers then, it’s real good.

      Also I agree with @Tam Jardine says at 12:40 pm “re Diageo I think some perspective is required.”

      Diageo are shareholder led and currently running a #Love Scotch campaign and will like all organisations respond to a ‘You’ve just pissed off 50% of your potential customer base”

      Ivan Menezes Diageos CEO is very active on social media so maybe Wingers on twitter etc. can point out to him the error his marketing mob have made by f*cking a flag seen as that of occupation and persecution to the countries he want’s it sold in (India, US, various Africa, Scotland) on bottles of Scotch Whisky.

      Money talks to these boys so maybe #Love Scotch, British not so much might have legs

    176. Glamaig says:

      Andy-B says:
      11 February, 2017 at 8:08 pm
      Re the “Butchers Apron” anyone else notice, that supermarket products are covered in them.

      Yup and I dont buy any of them.
      Had a wee look round Harris Tweed shop in Tarbert Harris. Wee UJs on all the tweed…

    177. galamcennalath says:

      Butcher’s Apron branding. Don’t buy them. Leave them on the shelves to go out of date. If enough Scots take that line then they will stop.

      Supermarkets probably won’t put profits above politics. When it comes to big business, money talks.

      I will quite happily buy products branded as English, or Welsh, or Irish. Branding something as British, and reinforcing with that bloody (literally) flag, is a political statement.

      Funnily enough, Waitrose tends to actually brand as Scottish, English, Welsh, and Irish. Although a tad ‘fancy’ and upmarket, they keep politics aside.

    178. heedtracker says:


      Never heard of this guy Dowson but Graun gimps have basically built the whole of their Alt Right, Alt Fact grot around him, making damn sure Graun readers are under no illusion he’s a Scot. Its not by chance. Imagine how may English far right zooomers like Dowson there are, let alone around the planet, online, yet here we are, let’s use fascism to shit on the Scots.

      “Dowson’s websites include Patriot News Agency – whose postings have been viewed and shared tens of thousands of times in the US – and whose articles on Friday include a critique of a new Netflix series which it accused of stoking anti-white racism.”

      Meanwhile in Scotia, the Times publishes this,

      Never trust a tory.

    179. Arabs for Independence says:

      I’ll happily boycott Diageo.

      A fellow Dundonian, 2 Norwegians and myself invested in a sherry hogshead cask from Bruichladdich. In December the cask gave birth to 375 bottles of beautiful Islay malt – 59% proof. The whisky is labelled ‘independent Laddie’

      Slàinte mhòr

    180. heedtracker says:

      Northern Ireland is an English Province and Wales an English Principality. If they are not claimed by England when the United Kingdom disunites would Scotland really want either? Unless, of course either or both had a majority that requested to be Scottish. I think that unlikely.”

      Like it! And it’s much more logical too Robert thanks.

    181. Arabs for Independence says:

      Glamaig @8:27

      Going to Harris in April intending to buy Harris tweed jaikit – any recommendations as certainly dinna want one with a butcher’s apron on it?

    182. Brian Powell says:

      So after a two page spread in the National Henry McLeish had nothing to say of any importance.

    183. Stoker says:

      Tinto Chiel wrote on 11 February, 2017 at 8:19 pm:

      “Mind you, Stoker’s AB sounds good.”

      Hey, TC, that sounds like a promising brand, Mmmmmmmmm! 😀

      Stoker’s Atholl Brose

      Dae ye think it’ll catch oan?

    184. Liz Rannoch says:

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker 8.26

      Rose Rock Gin – not fond of gin masel’ but it’s my sister’s tipple. I got them a bottle for Christmas (along with a wee jar of Rock Rose Marmalade!) and they were ‘very’ happy. The firm seem to be doing well and although the postage was a bit more than from other outlets I bought from them rather than the whisky exchange et al.

      Think I’ll pop in the next time I’m up at Bettyhill.

    185. heedtracker says:

      Tory madness, March last year, “The EU’s embrace of Turkey could drive Britain out

      Britons are already uneasy about Turkey joining the European Union, and its potential fast-tracking into the bloc could antagonise them further”

      Fast forward 10 months on planet toryboy, “Theresa May secures multi billion pound fighter jet deal with Turkey before challenging President Erdogan on human rights”

      Zoom zoom on planet toryboy.

    186. Mealer says:

      Brian Powell 8.37,
      Henry McLeish is on a very public journey and he knows the destination.He’s bringing as many folk as possible along with him.

    187. The Rough Bounds says:

      Why does the National give any kind of publicity or column inches to Henry McLeish? He’s never once come off the fence and all he ever does is open his mouth and let his belly rumble.

      He is just one of yesterday’s men.

    188. heedtracker says:

      They’re getting their British Empire back. You do have to keep checking publishing dates but this was published today, on planet toryboy.

      News›UK›UK Politics
      Dozens of Tory MPs back plan to give fast-track visas to 52 Commonwealth countries
      The 45 MPs have written to the Home Secretary calling for closer ties with the Commonwealth

    189. galamcennalath says:

      @Brian Powell

      McLeish. Yes a lot of piffle. Five questions for NOs, none which they are actually likely to ask themselves!

    190. Brian Powell says:

      I wrote: “So after a two page spread in the National Henry McLeish had nothing to say of any importance.”

      There was one very important bit in his 5 questions section: he, in rather a bland sentence, put all the folk who didn’t want independence as one group.

      Those who support independence do come from different bases but they are all left or centre left with a share direction. The way he spoke about the 50% who might vote no totally ignored that there is not a shared direction in their politics. Over 25% of that ‘group’ Tory are the same as the Tories in Westminster.

      That blandness in his comment highlighted why Labour is falling, and has fallen in Scotland.

      There was no examination of where we would end up , did he assume those for Ind would just become Labour?

      It was a curiously tired argument, without vision, and a sense of ‘there would be some kind of politics, but I’ve no idea what it would be’.

    191. Glamaig says:

      @ Arabs for Independence

      Dont think there was UJs on everything so you might be lucky.
      Fantastic material but the styles not my thing, YMMV

      If I had the dosh I might buy material and get something more practical made that isnt quite so country gentleman.

      The UJ thing on brands like Harris Tweed might be aimed at the Chinese. BBC R4 smugathon a few weeks back were saying Chinese love UJs, brand UK, queenie, think every Englishman is a gentleman etc. Boak.

    192. Legerwood says:


      Very interesting article about North Sea oil industry from the Daily Telegraph today.

      Lots of stats in it from what I could see from a quick scan.

    193. Robert Peffers says:

      @call me dave says: 11 February, 2017 at 8:18 pm

      ” … Bonus photo of Trump & May which seemed to upset my partner when she read it this morning. Optical illusion I told her…

      I’m not about to bother importing the photo into my big Desktop where I do my Video/photographic work to prove the point but if My guess is right that’s a Photoshop illusion.

    194. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Stoker’s Atholl Brose”.

      As Macart himself would say, “That’s a keeper!”

      On a serious note, if VichyVision would just show the Joanna Cherry Slapdown once, it would flip so many undecideds.

      Wot am I saying? Am I mad?

      Think I’ll stick to plain water. Nana’s never wrong.

    195. Rock says:

      What are the “sovereign” MPs of a “sovereign” people of a “sovereign” kingdom doing in a “foreign” parliament where they are outnumbered 10 to 1 and cannot get a single amendment, let alone a bill, passed?

      The humiliation of the MPs from Scotland is a humiliation of the “sovereign” people of Scotland which has been going on for 310 years.

      Should the 56 SNP MPs resign and come home?

    196. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Rose Rock Gin – not fond of gin masel’..”@ Liz Rannoch says at 8:43 pm

      Try a fresh sprig of Rosemary, run a lighter flame over it to release the natural oils and then stir the Gin & Tonic with the sprig 🙂

    197. Rock says:

      Brian Powell,

      “So after a two page spread in the National Henry McLeish had nothing to say of any importance.”

      The Rough Bounds,

      “Why does the National give any kind of publicity or column inches to Henry McLeish?”

      Why indeed?

      If the Rev. Stuart Campbell ever gets invited to write an article, he should only agree if it is a front page top headline story.

      Not some window dressing in the inside pages.

      Mark my words: The National does not support independence, never did.

    198. Wullie says:

      Harris tweed re Arabs for independence
      As far as I am aware. The cloth Harris Tweed is produced in the western isles, all the clothing is manufactured in England. I think Brian Wilson is one of the owners, could be wrong. I’m quite sure it will have a UJ on it probably masking the orb of certification.

    199. Rock says:


      “I will quite happily buy products branded as English, or Welsh, or Irish. Branding something as British, and reinforcing with that bloody (literally) flag, is a political statement.”

      But, but, but, there is nothing “political” about “British”.

      It is “geographic” and even after independence some of us will fight for our “right” to be “British”.

      Robert Peffers,

      “The Irish, whether they like it or not, live in the British Isles and are thus British. If they choose to claim not to be British then, like you, they have conceded their right to be British to the United Kingdom.”

    200. Arabs for Independence says:

      Wullie @ 9:28

      Brian Wilson you say? You’ve just saved me a few bob

    201. Robert Kerr says:

      Re Harris Tweed. Only the cloth is made in the Hebrides. All garments are made elsewhere if memory serves.

      Oh Rock is back to spoil yet another thread.

      Bath and bed for me.

    202. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Kerr says: 11 February, 2017 at 9:44 pm:

      “Oh Rock is back to spoil yet another thread.
      Bath and bed for me.”

      Aye! It’d goodnight from him and good night from me. A wee session with the Xbox 360 to relax – then bed and I’ll hope to sleep like a rock.

    203. Big Phil says:

      full speach there… but must remember Trolls are trolls. I watched that speach and if ever we were told our place then that was it, Alex was a true gentleman not only defending a lady but defending a nation.. Chris absolutyfeckinbrill, as always. 😉

    204. Liz g says:

      Galamcennalath @ 8.27
      Aye I’m the same as you, I avoid any product with the butcher’s Apron on it.
      I like to know where my food comes from and have no problems buying stuff from the rest of the Union,my problem is the propoganda
      So I don’t allow it to work on me , Infact it’s having the opposite effect.
      If I have to look past that flag to find out where something came from, I just don’t buy it.

    205. Big Phil says:

      Mr Peffers, before ye play, remember that no one plays better than you, you see the play before us all ,for what its worth i preach wot you say to anyone that’ll listen, dont you ever stop being the player sir.

    206. Liz g says:

      Calling it a night here as well folks, before the thread turns into a shit show again.

    207. cynacalHighlander says:

      @Brian Powell says:
      11 February, 2017 at 8:37 pm

      So after a two page spread in the National Henry McLeish had nothing to say of any importance.

      Did he ever?

    208. Dr Jim says:

      Does British not mean “sort of” like see you at three “ish” or do you like the coffee? “Mmm, ish”
      How was the movie? “OK, ish”

      I don’t mind being a Briton but I’ll never be an “ish” a name that’s been assigned to me by someone else
      See I can be a Scot, but others can’t be an Eng or even an Ire or a Wal

      So the invention of the word British to cover everybody is just phoney crap to mean everybody is an “ish” but not the real thing which is English which in itself is funny because like most places they’re made up of immigrants

      Sort of “ish”

    209. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert Peffers before U go gaming, I forgoptbto say I posted about the EU Petition in the previous thread. Have a good night, I’m off as well now that the night shift has started.

    210. Cherry says:

      Right behind you there Liz ?
      Sad day when Wingers leave btl
      Must go finish that crossword. Night all!

    211. Dr Jim says:

      My comment at 10.02 was meant in a semi humorous fashion and in no way should anyone think or believe I was supporting the position of @Rock

      Coz he’s just a dick, and I mean that in a most kindly way so that actual Independence supporting folk who don’t post but may read don’t get the wrong idea

    212. Meg merrilees says:

      Legerwood @9.07

      See my post about Chrysaor @2.41 Feb 2nd Bringing it on Thread. There was an interview with Chrysaor on Jan 31st on GMS.

      They think that it will be at least 20 years before any decommissioning will need to take place; have bought interests in several, world class fields mentioned Everest, Schiehallion, Buzzard and think there are about 350million barrels of oil still there.

      Certainly very upbeat – none of this the N. Sea oil is dwindling rubbish.

      His explanation is that Shell has other fields that it wants to put it’s money into just now and would preclude them rom spending it in Scotland – not selling up because they think it’s failing.

      Good that it’s in the Telegraph plus oil currently $56.62 per barrel.

    213. harry mcaye says:

      The best bit of The National is the letters page. Some very informative letters, especially the daily long letter. I keep the best editions for future reference for campaigning purposes. The rest of the paper is a bit up and down with regular typos. Today’s back page being a case in point “Ranger in chaos”. Which Ranger?

    214. dakk says:

      ‘They’re getting their British Empire back.’

      Brexit was always about that for most Brexiteers.

      If they haven’t colonised it, they’re scared of it.

    215. heedtracker says:

      Front page Observer online. Its a twatastrophe, a tory UK twatasrophe of monumental tory twatness.

      Piers Morgan

      The Observer

      Fantastic beefs and where to find them: JK Rowling at war with Piers Morgan
      TV presenter’s support for Donald Trump sees him sworn at on HBO, then roasted on Twitter by the Harry Potter author

    216. Rock says:

      Dr Jim,

      “My comment at 10.02 was meant in a semi humorous fashion and in no way should anyone think or believe I was supporting the position of @Rock

      Coz he’s just a dick, and I mean that in a most kindly way so that actual Independence supporting folk who don’t post but may read don’t get the wrong idea”

      Thank you for your kind words and for complying with WOS rule 2: “Play the ball, not the man (or woman).”

    217. Mojo14 says:

      McTernan alert on Russia Today Sam Delaney Sat night show trying to be ‘funny’ ……ew…..

    218. Rock says:

      Dr Jim,

      And regarding the ball:

      Robert Peffers,

      “The Irish, whether they like it or not, live in the British Isles and are thus British. If they choose to claim not to be British then, like you, they have conceded their right to be British to the United Kingdom.”

      Dr Jim,

      “So the invention of the word British to cover everybody is just phoney crap to mean everybody is an “ish” but not the real thing which is English which in itself is funny because like most places they’re made up of immigrants”

      Please play ball gently. I will watch the game.

    219. Cuilean says:

      Harry Mcaye

      Um, the lone ranger?

    220. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      Keep up the good work ladies and gentlemen. A brilliant site full of good people and good info.

      Don’t be tempted by the troll, he is on the prowl waiting for somebody to bite.

      Keep on keeping on and soon you will have people like Ian Brotherhood returning.

    221. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Ian Brotherhood is a lovely man.

      His posts are always worth reading.

      Back soon I hope.

    222. Another Union Dividend says:

      Liz G @ 9.51 pm

      Re Union Jacks on food packaging.

      Wingers need to be more pro active on this and complain in writing to Supermarket HQs and speak to local shop managers.

      It’s not just subliminal propaganda but the issue of food miles as local produce should be flagged up with Saltire or least without the Union Flag as it antagonises half the voters in Scotland.

      I notice some supermarkets are sticking a small Saltire on top of or next to the Union Flag but that is not good enough.

      If a problem for them, then best to have no flags and just state which nation in UK or abroad in which the food is grown.

      Also start writing to local newspapers on the issue

    223. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      I only use Tesco & Lidl because of where I live.Rural N.E.Scotland.

      It’s quite odd that a German company seems to delight in using the Saltire when appropriate but Tesco would rather use anything but.

      I will start complaining.

    224. sassenach says:

      Surely the troll will get fed up if nobody ‘takes him on’!

      Let him spout his nonsense in his empty box.

    225. Fireproofjim says:

      Meg Merrilees,
      You are right about the Scottish oil industry future.
      The recent price drop has made the oil producers much better at managing production costs ( now below $20/barrel), but the the big exciting fields are being found West of Shetland in the Atlantic. The Rona Ridge and Schiehallion have been proved and Hurrricane Oil’s Lancaster and Lincoln fields may be the biggest of all with several,billion barrels in place. (Check out their web site) There is a whole generation or more of oil production for an independent Scotland to benefit from.
      Let us tell all our gloomy and doubtful friends about it.

    226. Dr Jim says:

      Ken Clark has just described the current Tory party as “a loathsome bunch of right wing British Nationalists”

      As a former member of Margaret Thatchers government you have to consider that’s pretty authoritative

    227. sassenach says:

      I now do most shopping at Lidl, but still cannot avoid butcher’s aprons on what seems like a growing number of products, particularly frozen stuff (peas etc). Have mentioned it to staff, but will need to send a letter I reckon.

    228. heedtracker says:

      Current US political satire, with an English satirist, both satirising England, her Empire, her post Empire and her new best friend Heil Trump. Its funny because its true.

    229. Legerwood says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      11 February, 2017 at 10:17 pm
      Legerwood @9.07

      “”See my post about Chrysaor @2.41 Feb 2nd Bringing it on Thread. There was an interview with Chrysaor on Jan 31st on GMS..””

      I saw some mention of that in my quick scan of the article in the Telegraph. On the whole the article seemed to be upbeat about the future for N Sea business. It also mentioned the drop in production costs.

    230. BJ says:

      I’m on here most days and try to keep up with the comments. If Rock has posted something , I don’t read it and if I see someone has responded to him I do not read that either because it will only be highlighting Rocks post.

      I read Scot Goes Pop and I don’t read Glasgow Working something??

      Trolls never have anything good to say or even try to debate a point. I don’t need that negativity in my life.

      BTW what is btl

    231. Legerwood says:

      Re Harris Tweed.

      The labelling of Harris Tweed is tightly controlled by the Harris Tweed Authority.

      From their web site: “”The Harris Tweed Authority is the legal guardian of Harris Tweed and the Orb trademark with powers granted by the Harris Tweed Act of Parliament 1993.””

      Archive of Harris Tweed labels

      Don’t see any Union Jacks.

      Labelling policy for Harris Tweed

      They issue the labels when you buy the cloth and will only give you the number of labels based on the quantity of cloth you buy.

    232. dakk says:

      ‘England, her Empire, her post Empire and her new best friend Heil Trump’

      The new Empire led by Babadook May and the wee oddity Mickie Gove.

      The Mickie Mouse Empire.

      If they can pull this off they really must be the super race.

    233. TheWasp says:

      I was in tesco the other day buying veg, and was a bit taken aback when the English labelled potatoes were flagless, but the ones grown in Roxburghshire had the butcher’s apron.

    234. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      “Report reveals biased BBC has “high dependency” on the Conservatives for statistics”

    235. Tam Jardine says:

      Interesting concept this EU accession queue Andrew Neil is so fond of thinking we would join the back of.

      Looking in terms of GDP per capita ($) I presume Andrew must thing the queue starts with the earliest date of candidacy being accepted. So we have:

      1.Turkey $19.6K
      2.Macedonia $13.9K
      3.Montenegro $15.5K
      4.Serbia $15.9K
      5.Caesar!nia $11.3K
      6.Scotland $43K.

      Well- Senor Pons, Spanish MEP said back of the queue so that must be how it works. From a list of 45 European states, in terms of GDP per capita Scotland sit 12th highest. The 5 EU candidates are in 34,38,39,40,41st place.

      These other candidate countries would swap routes to EU accession with Scotland in a heartbeat. What is of more interest than the actual thrust of AN’s argument is why a BBC presenter and Scotsman would willingly propagate the mental sludge he is propagating. The queue he has invented displays the cringe writ large- the actual manifestation of the standing of Scotland in his mind.

      There are plenty EU states who would cut their right arm off to have the strengths of the Scottish economy and the resources backing up that strength. It is, after all the one and only reason Westminster is so determined to keep hold of us.

    236. Molly says:

      Heedtracker, Channel 4 did a piece about Dowson the other night as part of their fake news week. They tracked him down in Hungary .

      Just google the name and there’s still a piece on Channel 4 news website. All a bit of an eye opener.

      Agree about Scotland in Union, to be able to raise £300,000 as a fundraiser? Not having a go at Scottish Labour but could they do that ( minus JK Rowling) ?

      Yet no one in the Scottish media is interested enough to query why SIU is raising that amount and where from?

    237. Meg merrilees says:

      From the Telegraph Twitter feed :

      Latest suggestion for Trump’s visit is to hold it in Birmingham at the NEC, in July – Brexit heartland, charge people to get in and give the money raised from the 85,000 audience to the Royal British Legion.

      Has Rock gone to bed because Robert has?

    238. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi BJ says at 11:34 pm

      You asked,
      “BTW what is btl”

      “btl” is “below the line”, ie the comments below a main article on a web site.

    239. Still Positive says:

      Meg merilees @ 12.58

      That would be a good idea to have Trump in Birmingham rather than in London. I read some where that he only wants the bling he can get from the Royal coach going up The Mall to Buck House.

      Be better anywhere in England rather than in Balmoral.

    240. mr thms says:

      Just came across this comment..

      “For most of the first 1,400 years of Britain’s recorded history it was an active player in wider European entities.”

      Robert Tombs is Professor of Modern European History at Cambridge University

      1,400 years?

    241. Meg merrilees says:

      Why is no british media outlet reporting on Fukushima?

      I’ve read 3 different articles in the last week saying that the Radionactivity readings there are huge – 530 sieferts per hour.

      One report said part of the damaged reactor has effectively fallen into the sea because it has burned a hole through the remains of the plant where it was situated.

      Another report said it was emitting more radiation than Chernobyl at its worst and a third showed the amount of radioactivity in the sea stretching all the way to the west coast of America and well to the south.

      The Olympics are to be held in Japan in 3 years and I read last year, sometime, that the japanese government were trying to coax the ex-residents to return because they want to prove that it is safe to be there. They were even hoping to hold some of the events in Fukushima!!!

      Don’t think that will be happening anytime soon…

    242. Meg merrilees says:

      European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said he fears Britain will divide the European Union’s 27 remaining members by making different promises to each country during its Brexit negotiations.

    243. James Barr Gardner says:

      O/T Ref Jet Fuel

      A friend of mine assured me that he had been told by staff at INEOS (Grangemouth) that they produced the bulk of the jet fuel in the UK, can this be checked out?

      I would not be surprised if this fact was 100% true.

    244. Chick McGregor says:

      Seriously guys, it is so easy to make your own, tailored, version of cream whisky liqueur as taught to me by Irish cousins.

      It is simply:
      A tin of carnation.
      A tin of condensed milk.
      Your favourite coffee (granulated)
      Your favourite whisky.

      Mix to taste. Simple as that.

      And because it is to your taste it is much better (as well as cheaper) than commercially available products.

      In a similar vein.

      If you like Salmiakki (Salted liquorice in Scandinavia).
      Try Salmiakki Vodka.
      Get some Salmiakki candy.
      Get your favourite voddy.
      Crush the candy and dissolve in the vodka to taste.
      Amazing flavour if you are into salty liquorice.

      If you haven’t tried salmiakki, most folk would assume it would be disgusting but try it before you knock it.

    245. ScottieDog says:

      @Meg Merrilees
      Sadly it’s just the tip of the ice berg..

    246. Meg merrilees says:

      Re Ineos

      Probably restricted information.

      Interesting that in 2005, when the Buncefield Depot exploded outside Hemel Hempstead (20 tanks each holding 3 million gallons of fuel) not only was there a loud bang but I believe it affected the fuel supply to Heathrow.
      It was the fifth biggest fuel depot in the country and it was rumoured that there was a direct underground fuel pipeline between the Depot and Heathrow.

      It certainly made one heck of a bang when it went up- my cat shot off the bed (about 1 second before the noise arrived) and I thought that perhaps a plane had come down locally. There was a strange kind of echoey ‘ringing noise’ immediately after the explosion sound had roared over the house. Quite scary!

    247. Dr Jim says:

      Regarding all this nonsense about back of the queue EU membership and or deficits or not qualifying to join for some other Unionist nonsensical reason it might be remembered that should Scotland vote Yes to a second referendum the RUK will owe Scotland a share of UK assets to which we have contributed

      Armed forces, defence spending including defence infrastructure, overseas territories and so on

      As these assets are jointly owned by all constituent parts of the UK they wont easily be separated so a financial agreement will have to be reached in which the RUK will have to compensate Scotland for the loss of these assets to itself

      These assets are huge and probably beyond what the RUK can afford to pay given its current financial state
      Unionists like to think Scotland should it leave the UK would have nothing and would have to start again from scratch, this is not so and it’s a fact many like to conveniently forget

      Scotland will be owed a great deal and the UK knows it and Alex Salmond was right to say if the UK don’t deal fairly with Scotland in the distribution of assets then Scotland should have no legal requirement to incur or bear any debt or deficit incurred by the UK past or present up and until Independence

      So given the UKs probable stance and current debt levels an Independant Scotland would very likely start out life as a new financially debt and deficit free republic, state, country, call it what you will

      Which would make Scotland an inordinately attractive place for business to want to come to and the EU to embrace
      Plus in such financial good health would we be that if we required international funding those institutions would be more than delighted to offer us the lowest of interest rates possible

      In short, an Independent Scotland would be just fine and dandy thank you very much

    248. Artyhetty says:

      If anyone is up late, can’t sleep, need to watch a short film, see the site. National Library of Scotland film archive. The theme this week, immigration and emigration re Scotland. Looks like some fascinatiing, eye opening films to see. Always worth a reckie anyway. Films in copyright so can’t directly share.

      One film about a Scottish family who emigrated to Canada visiting their homeland. Called, Fraser’s return. Notes say, Hunterston nuke power station would, “blend into the local countryside”. Of course, that would be right.

    249. Meg merrilees says:

      Scottie dog @2.07

      I guess that’s why no-one is reporting it and T.May gets her new power station at Hinckley Point. Scary stuff!


      Given the current furore they are trying to stir up re the UK’s exit bill i.e. £49 billion, would there be anything left assuming that they might want to give us some?

      Can’t believe the collective will of the current crop of Tory MP’s would agree to give us anything, and certainly not ‘pay us to go’.

    250. Meg merrilees says:

      Arthetty – couldn’t resist and just watched the Frasers…

      Good to see Scotland thriving in those days and the lovely haystacks exactly as I remember them.

      must go to bed though.

    251. Al Dossary says:

      @Meg Merilees,

      Meg, there exists a distribution network all across the UK for hydrocarbon products. It owes a large part of it’s existence to WWII and the need to get fuel to the RAF bases all over the UK – particularly on the South and East coast.

      These pipelines transport oil and gas from the North Sea and all across the UK as well as importing gas from Norway and Zeebrugge.

      See the link below for the pipeline networks.

    252. Dr Jim says:

      @Meg merrilees

      International law dictates Scotlands position as to it’s 8% and a bit ownership of all UK assets whether the Tories red or blue like it or not and if they don’t come to an amicable and agreed arrangement with the departing state (Scotland) the UK would be the defaulters making them even more of a pariah state than they are now

      I can’t see that behaviour going down well with all the countries supposedly falling over themselves to do trade deals with good old honest UK when they try to renege on paying what they legally owe

      The days are gone when the great British empire raped countries of their wealth and got away with it

      People like Andrew Neil don’t like to talk about that stuff
      The other thing they don’t like to talk about is Scotlands strategic location in the Northern hemisphere, land sea and airspace is a massive deal to the UK which should Scotland be Independent would control access to, which would diminish the arm of the RUK and that would really upset and embarrass them a great deal

      Can you imagine the RUK having to ask Scotlands permission to sail or overfly our area of control

      The total shame of it for them after years of telling us we were nobodies

      And that’s why the UK will do nothing and take no punitive action trade or otherwise against Scotland, it’ll be just the opposite

      They need us

    253. robin says:

      In a noble effort to see all sides of all arguments/analysis,I look at a wide spectrum of media but I am seriously confused at the Scotsmans comments section.
      I know it is anti SNP but it looks like someone is being paid/is his full time job, to post antisnp/snpbad comments from about a dozen accounts so that virtually all the comments are snpbad. now that might just be the Scotsmans readership profile but I doubt it, so shouldn’t someone do an analysis and highlight this stupidity which brings them into disrepute

    254. bjsalba says:

      @Tam Jardine and others
      Joining the EU is not like taking a numbered ticket from a machine at the butchers and waiting to be served in turn (FIFO).

      It is more like applying to go to University – multiple applications are reviewed at the same time, and if you have the credentials you get a place, if you don’t meet the requirements you do not get a place.

      That is why Turkey is not yet a member even though they originally applied way back in 1987.

    255. davidb says:

      @ robin

      Mr Snowden apparently leaked to the world that there are paid trolls on the internet. Scot Goes Pop has a particularly thick one – watch his posting times. They indicate regular shift patterns.

      As to the Hootsman – selling in print to well below 1% of the literate in Scotland – well its readers expect it to reinforce their world view. Just as this website reinforces ours, and the BBC reinforces a lost Imperial England.

      Remember that having 120 k page hits is not the same as having 120 K readers. You may get sent to a particular story by Nana, or a facebook link. That counts. You may be living in Canada and researching for your homecoming trip – so does that.

      The Scotsman is fading. It is not relevant to modern Scotland. It will eventually just disappear. SNP baad comments and all. I used to read it 20 years ago. Wouldn’t use it to wipe dogshit off my shoes now.

    256. Les Wilson says:

      Dr Jim says:
      Jim, I totally agree with your last posting. This, plus loss of Scotland’s assets are the reason they are shitting themselves.

    257. Cactus says:

      When I first observed ‘that clip’ from the commons, where the subject rudely shouted down the singing of Ode to Joy, (during a break) he reminded me of Bilbo.. (have you seen it in slo-mo)

      Issy not supposed to use his hammer first for that purpose anyway? Ye ken the gavel. He not so precious, he got bad manners.

      “Meeting is adjourned, it is? no you say that GOV, what? meeting is adjourned, it is..?”

    258. Ken500 says:

      A pipe line was built from Peterhead to outside Edinburgh. Thatcher tried to get it to Newcastle but it was not economical. Peterhead was the closest point to the Oil fields off the North Sea coast. Shale US Gas is being imported to Grangemouth.

      Like most countries in the world Scotland is moving to renewables. The Tories are one of the only association in the world who have banned renewables and support nuclear.

      There was once a troll called AM2 on the Scotsman. Who said, ‘Tobacco was an asset’, although it was imported. Posted alternative facts. What happened to Meths?

      Johnston Press is in £Millions of debt. £300Million of debts which keep on being reconstructed. Rothschild is taken in as an advisor. The Chairman is going. 2019 is a critical time. They are trying to sell off titles, UK wide, Based in the NE of England they support the Labour Party. Labour Party members always got first posts and prominence in the website. Lords etc. Aided by their sychophants. Everyone else who got did not follow the LP line got deleted and banned. A waste of time and space. In hysterics one poster posted fibs for 48 hours. Then it turned out Brown supported the release.of Megrahi. Silence.

      Newsquest have bought over a news/magazine group. They make £2Million profits on £9Million turnover. Increased. Newquest make their money selling literature for private education worldwide. JP print Labour Party propaganda. Printing groups get Gov contracts for printing literature. The SNP Scottish Gov were going on line for policy documents because it was cheaper.

    259. louis.b.argyll says:

      Been lurking widely..

      It’s becoming apparent that the right wing branch of capitalism has bought up the levers of power and information distribution.

      Democracy and freedom (the EU Project) are sidelined until the warmongers..


      ..’a GLOBAL Britain’ will be a slave-owner, again.

    260. bjsalba says:

      @ScottieDog said 12 February, 2017 at 2:07 am

      I have seen some conflicting views on this organisation. Folks might want to check on it although it is not terribly relevanrt to Independence, is it?

    261. Tam Jardine says:


      100% understand “queue” myth. I’m trying to illustrate how ridiculous Andrew Neil’s proposition is.

    262. louis.b.argyll says:

      The fascist-sympathising owners of most of the worlds most influential media organisations..

      ..seem to want to bring the planet to it’s knees, with billions of potential and developing consumers ripe for exploitation.

      Global Britain, the UK TORIES say..not through FAIR trade but through protectionism and fear.

    263. Breeks says:

      @ Robin 6:48

      Why not leave them to fester in disrepute?

      You won’t learn anything from the comments, and you won’t learn much more in the Scotsman.

      But you do make a good point; the media and Labours frothing at the mouth hatred is indeed disproportionate to anything the SNP has actually done to deserve it, and there could indeed be some sinister malevolence orchestrating that, but the countermeasure to propaganda is truth.

      You may be surrounded by propaganda, as we are in Scotland, but a small amount of truth will work away in the mind and eventually corrode that persons faith in propaganda. It just takes time, because there is only one truth, and time reveals its constancy.

      It’s a macabre thing to watch, but I think Scotland is actually now in less jeopardy from propaganda than it has been for a long time. The floodgates holding back the truth have yet to burst completely, but there is a veritable torrent of truth already getting through.

      Right now, I believe it is the rUK being most imperilled by mainstream news propaganda. Brexit would be a serious body blow for any healthy economy, and the UK economy is not healthy. The media celebrates Brexit as being not so bad; exports are up, spending is up… But what is lacking is the constructive analysis.

      Exports are up because the pound is weak. UK produce is cheaper to buy, but the UK has an ugly trade deficit and imports more than it exports, so the pain is greater than the gain. Consumer spending is buoyant because people know that 5 or 6 months from now a new fridge or washing machine might cost a third extra than it does now. Buy it now. Get the holidays paid for to avoid surcharges. Spending might be up, but isn’t that also a consequence of prices going up?

      This is a dangerous situation for the U.K., because these rises lead to a more general inflation, and the countermeasure to inflation is a rise in interest rates, and when your economy is crippled by debt dangerously close to your Nation’s GDP, a rise in interest rates could very well be the straw that breaks the camels back. With 1.6 trillion debt, (and the rest), that final straw is actually quite a hefty haymaker.

      The UK is up to its neck in this. There is no get out of jail free card. Perhaps in future decades, people will recognise that Brexit was in reality less about xenophobia, (a despicable but convenient inflammatory smokescreen), and the issue of “taking back control” was more about having control to hide the credit card receipts from the unsuspecting public that pays the bills.

      And one last question to ponder; in a financial market of crooked traders, bankers and sociopathic financiers, what do you expect they have been doing in this “phoney war” period between the Brexit result and the Brexit actual event? I would wager you a large sum of money that the “serious money” behind the UK economy has been spending the last few months Brexit-proofing their portfolios so that when the Brexit collapse does occur, the vultures are poised, cash rich, and ready for the carnage.

      Scotland MUST get free from all of this. Whatever “down sides” there are beyond Independence are merely ripples in a pond compared to the tsunami headed our way with Brexit.

    264. louis.b.argyll says:

      When Salmond said ‘unleashed’ he was referring to an independent nation’s ability to challenge the evil manipulation of capitalism replacing true democracy, IF IT SO DESIRES.

    265. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tam Jardine says: 12 February, 2017 at 8:46 am:

      “ridiculous Andrew Neil’s proposition is.”

      Talking about queues – why illustrate how ridiculous Andrew Neil’s proposition is – first item in that particular queue is to illustrate how ridiculous Andrew Neil himself is.

      He has to head the queue of demented Scots cringers. I think I can honestly state that I have never come across such a bad case of that malady in 80 years.

      He’s right up there with such as Sir Walter Scott but at least Sir Wattie could string a story together.

    266. louis.b.argyll says:

      Andrew Kneel..

    267. Smallaxe says:

      Nana: Good Morning,

      Links for breakfast, Lovely.Kettle’s on.

      Peace Always

    268. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Watching Andrew Marr – one of the newspaper reviewers, Laura Perrins, who apparently runs a blog ‘Conervative Woman’ came across as a right-wing Tory zealot. These people are intolerant and scary.

      Another good reason for getting out of the UK.

      Speaker Bercow continues to grow in my estimation, he has admitted to being a Remainer – boy oh boy, will the Toerags be after him now.

    269. Robert Peffers says:

      You couldn’t believe it. Radio Jockland is pushing JKR to lead Bitter Together in the coming referendum. Their stated thinking is that no one in Labour would want to repeated the error of associating itself with the Tory Party and no Tory would want the Job.

      It sounds more like the BBC Jockland are looking for someone, anyone, who would be daft enough to take on the job and Jaikie R fits that bill.

    270. Cactus says:

      An yer right K1.

      Like most of us.. I Love Scotland more 🙂

      SO many more and more of us are learning to do the same, that’s why we’re here.

      The meaning of life is to learn.. have a great Sunday pardners.

      Yes, it’s only natural.

    271. Nana says:


      Good morning. Thought you might be having a lie in this morning after a late night on off topic. Take it easy today.

    272. galamcennalath says:

      Breeks says:

      Whatever “down sides” there are beyond Independence are merely ripples in a pond compared to the tsunami headed our way with Brexit.

      Yes, the safer option is now Indy. That is a totally different situation from 2014 where a lot of Scots believe the UK would continue much as it was, and if they were doing OK from that system then they chose to stick with it.

      IndyRef2 will be a totally different beast. Surely, if we can get the message through, only the hard right and blood & soil British nationalists will favour Brexit UK?

    273. Macart says:


      Good piece by Mr MacWhirter, but I reckon the question he finished on should have been:

      What KIND of country do you want to live in?

    274. Smallaxe says:


      Will do, nothing planned. I left this for you last night.Just in case you missed it.

      Peace Always

    275. galamcennalath says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      Their stated thinking is that no one in Labour would want to repeated the error of associating itself with the Tory Party and no Tory would want the Job.

      They may have learned something from the Leave campaign. It was conducted by multiple organisations, each with a different way of approaching the campaign. Each targeting differently.

      One, I can’t even remember what it was called, had almost no human face and was involved in the more extreme propaganda. The more moderate and acceptable face involved people.

      I expect the same strategy for IndyRef2. It wouldn’t surprise me if Scotland in Union is the big budget hard core propaganda outlet. It certainly seems to have no presentable human component.

      Working in parallel will be a nicer people orientated group. JKR? The Tories are toxic, labour are on their death bed. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was no strong party political element at all.

    276. Glamaig says:

      @ Legerwood 11:48

      the UJs are wee tabs sewn into a seam on the outside of the garment so maybe up to the garment manufacturer and nothing to do with orbs etc. Still looks inappropriate though.

    277. Effijy says:

      Henry McLeish

      Isn’t that the Labour man of little talent that was made First Minister of Scotland, but who was shuffled out the back door when it was discovered that he didn’t understand who’s pocket received the rent money from his constituency office.

      Better not to seek justice for such a thing when it might show the Labour Party in their true colours.

      Do you believe that we still pay him a couple of thousand pounds per week, in First Minister’s pension rights, for such a short and unsavoury level of service to our nation.

      PS Rangers of Ibrox will announce the arrival of Alex McLeish tomorrow.
      They are just waiting for the cheque from Scotland in Union to cover his wages up until May’17. Thanks JK.

    278. Nana says:


      He asks should we stay or should we go. My own thought on reading that was, go for goodness sake Scotland run for your lives.

      From reading, watching and listening to events over the last few weeks I believe folks have asked themselves what kind of country they want to live in and that’s why there’s a shift from No to Yes.

      They see what is happening down south and it ain’t pretty. As you have said before “Let them do the heavy lifting for us” which they are doing again and again. We will finish it hopefully with a short campaign as I’m sure we will all be needing a good long rest afterwards lol

    279. Dorothy Devine says:

      Robin , I do believe some time back that the Scotsman was ‘outed’ as posting btl to get more hits.

    280. Legerwood says:

      It looks as if the Irish are getting a bit worried about the effect of Brexit on the NI peace agreement with particular reference to the border issue.

      Bertie Aherne reported in the Guardian on the subject

      Apologies if link has already been posted – not read through the posts yet.

    281. Smallaxe says:

      Effijy says:

      “They are just waiting for the cheque from Scotland in Union to cover his wages up until May’17. Thanks JK”

      NOT, JK.: G.Pearson SIU. MI6!

      I await the handcuffs! 🙂

      Peace Always

    282. Macart says:


      Yes, the shift has begun, but its going to need to continue to make this work.

      May’s Brexit deal should go a long way to making that happen because its going to be stark. There’s been no allowance to date in the house debates toward a softer Brexit. There has been absolutely zero allowance for Scottish representation at all and I don’t see the Lords stepping in to amend anything. May and the right of right wing are riding high in popularity in England politically. She commands the popular vote in chambers and outside of the SNP there is no visible or effective opposition.

      People in Scotland need to ask themselves, do we continue to underwrite the actions of this near perennial Conservative government with our vote? And as a ‘willing’ party to the UK, that’s exactly what the case would be. Or, do we say enough is enough, not in our name?

      Like I say, what kind of country do we want for ourselves and our kids?

    283. Glamaig says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      12 February, 2017 at 9:29 am
      You couldn’t believe it. Radio Jockland is pushing JKR to lead Bitter Together in the coming referendum.

      How interesting. I had assumed Ruth the Mooth was a shoo in for the job, prepared by a wee stint on Strictly with lots of smiles to raise her public profile (oh I’ll just vote to destroy all hope for a better future for my country because that nice woman from strictly says so.)

      JK will play the victim card at every available opportunity.

    284. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      How far has Scotland come since the 1930s???

      Not very far I say. In the 1930s the only way most Scots could get up to date news on politics and current affairs was through their radio.

      In 2017 the only way most Scots can get up to date news on politics and current affairs is through their radio.


      Frustrated and Furious.

    285. Liz g says:

      Smallaxe @ 10.02
      Let me get this straight.
      You are taking it easy, having a lie in , wating for handcuffs?
      I know I said the site needs to be less doom and gloom a la Rock…But that’s no whit ah ment Smallaxe!

    286. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      EVERY political programme on our TVs this morning has dealt with issued concerning ENGLAND.

      Not one of them have mentioned any views which Scotland Wales or N Ireland might have.

      It’s ENGLAND ENGLAND and ENGLAND all the way.

      English Politics
      English Sport
      English Soaps
      English Quiz Shows

      There is a bit of a pattern developing here, it seems to be all about ENGLAND.

      FFS wake up Scotland!!!

    287. heedtracker says:

      Molly says:
      12 February, 2017 at 12:56 am
      Heedtracker, Channel 4 did a piece about Dowson the other night as part of their fake news week. They tracked him down in Hungary .

      I slipped into a dwam when they started. Scotland and fake news is very old news. The whole lot are as bad as each other, all of them framing and manipulating us to get what their masters want at the ballot box. It you’re a YES Graun reader and had your brain bathed in their ghastly blend of fake Severin Carrell stuff, its beyond funny watching that crew of tories using anything to smear Scotland.

      But that’s what whipping boy means and that’s why they use Scots like this.

    288. Brian Powell says:

      Robert Peffers

      JKR to lead the Better Together debacle? lol Imagine after her perfect put down of Trump to be touting staying under the control of Trump’s new best pal, Tory extremist, Theresa May!

      That would be just to good not to use to destroy them. Then all the jokes about the fantasies of BTs manifesto. Having to go on TV to extol the virtues of staying with this most right wing Gov and country.

      To argue for caving in to leaving the EU when she spent so much time saying we should stay.

      To argue that a nation that wants to run its own affairs should stick to the decrepit post post imperialist Britain, not sure how that would go down with the US book buying theme park visiting public.

    289. Nana says:


      Indeed we need to continue affirming we want none of what is being touted by the tories. We must continue debunking the lies and keep sharing video links of what goes on in Westminster.

      ” what kind of country do we want for ourselves and our kids?” is an excellent way to start a conversation

      Wear your yes badges folks, talk to people and smile.

    290. heedtracker says:

      It’s ENGLAND ENGLAND and ENGLAND all the way.

      Hardly fair, 200 whales have been saved in New Zealand, an ex English colony too, one of the 57 commonwealth members, now planet toryboy’s new EU replacement. Its going to be great.

    291. galamcennalath says:

      BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      it seems to be all about ENGLAND.

      The real problem is England means something quite different here in Scotland than it does in South Britain.

      England is widely perceived as being much bigger in geography, cultural scope, and political consensus than it actually is!

    292. Smallaxe says:

      liz g:

      Hi liz, I know that b/stard Pearson well.Well enough to know who filled his pockets with brown envelopes.He is an ex-cop who was put behind a desk at Airdrie for his sins and now he appears in SIU?.

      I await the handcuffs! Fck Them! TWICE!

      Peace Always

    293. Glamaig says:

      JK re-tweeted this

      The EU has fostered peace in Europe.

      I dont know how she is going to square her pro-EU views with campaigning to leave the EU with the UK.

    294. louis.b.argyll says:

      If JKR leads the better together campaign, it will be the biggest dumb-down since Trump.

    295. DerekM says:

      @ Glamaig

      I imagine the britnat gong being waved at her will help her change her mind on that.

      Funny though that they maybe think putting a politician in front of better together is a bad idea.

      If she thinks we are vile now if she takes that job she will be in for quite an education lol

    296. Glamaig says:

      Compare this where the Yes campaign is accused of conspiracy theory about W of Shetland oilfields.

      with this, 2 years later

      and this


      Stevie from Airdrie was right.

    297. heedtracker says:

      I dont know how she is going to square her pro-EU views with campaigning to leave the EU with the UK.”

      Never trust a tory.

      Ken Clarke’s a progressive liberal now, they hate him too and so should you, they say. He’s ofcourse just another Snatcher Thatcher boot boy., not working on this pc.

    298. galamcennalath says:

      A Mission Statement for Project Brexit

      To foster English nationalism and xenophobia thus achieving popular support for trimming back rights, standards, oversight, regulations, and the Law thereby shifting England permanently to the right.

    299. Proud Cybernat says:

      JKR might well have Harry Potter on her side. But we’ve got Pansy Potter.

      I know who my money’s on!

      Bring it on, JK!!

    300. Glamaig says:

      The funny thing is JK retweeted this

      accusing the Yes campaign of using fake news in 2014 before it was cool

      Yet that ‘fake news’ was true and the ‘conspiracy theory’ wasnt one.

      She’s not very good at fact checking, leader of Better Together 2, bring it on.

      heedtracker says:
      12 February, 2017 at 11:06 am
      Ken Clarke’s a progressive liberal now

      Thing is he hasnt changed at all, only looks progressive and liberal compared to rest of them, shows in a shocking way how far to the right Westminster politics has gone.

    301. HandandShrimp says:

      I think Kevin was being mischievous. I really can’t see JK putting herself through the grinder of aggressive debates and public appearances the length of the country. Once you head up a political campaign you don the gloves and battle it out. There are no panic rooms on the front line.

      It is also worth pointing out that she is pro Labour/EU and I am not sure how comfortable she would be having her back covered by the likes Coburn, mad Murdo or that equally mad history woman person (whose name escapes me).

      I do hope they give the job to Fluffy Muddle though.

    302. Liz Rannoch says:

      Alex S on SP on now

    303. Liz Rannoch says:

      Sorry SP on now, AS will appear.

    304. heedtracker says:


      Its a Graun opinion thing to be fair. Yesterday rancid old Graun smeared Scotland, again, with their online front page far right fake news roaster and today. Today its just another black out of you know who, in their opinion stuff. Never trust a tory, or their rags.

      “Consider: it is widely acknowledged in Westminster that the vast majority of members of both houses of parliament regard Brexit as little short of national madness.

      Yet only one Tory – namely Clarke himself – 52 Labour MPs and a small band of Liberals had the guts to vote against triggering article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. As Clarke says: “I have never seen anything as mad or chaotic as this.”

      We are up against some ferocious liars, is not news:D

    305. Dr Jim says:

      Re Jakey leading Bitter Together

      Could she be enthralled enough by her own arrogance that she would consider it, I suppose the idea must be that they think her legions of followers would vote No because of their love for their queen or that it would cause actual experts, y’know like MSPs to be afraid of offending her fans by ripping the pish out of her brainless napper

      On the other hand 10 year olds don’t get a vote and I would venture to say her enormous fan base isn’t in Scotland it’s in England where the folk are more susceptible to the idea of a magic kingdom or we wouldn’t have a Tory government who all look like arch villains that came out of a Batman comic

      Holy wand waving Batman

    306. Hamish100 says:

      BBC radio this morning.
      I think if we keep playing tapes of BBC scotchland’s favourite Britnat Katy le Grant I am sure we have a good chance of persuading many labour Remain voters to vote IndyYES as well as pro Scot Indybrexits. What an over exitable person she is. She can’t help herself but run down Scotland but promote Britishness ie Little englander. Brexit good , brexit good!

      Does she actually get paid? If so how much?

    307. heedtracker says:

      Yet only one Tory – namely Clarke himself – 52 Labour MPs and a small band of Liberals had the guts to vote against triggering article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. As Clarke says: “I have never seen anything as mad or chaotic as this.”

      Or why this Graun tosspot excluding all the SNP MP’s that voted Naye last week, from his history of how the wonderous teamGEnglandB flounced out of the EU?

      Just watching the next union jack explosion on BBC news, all the way from South Korea winter Olympics. Here we go again, hysterical BBC jingos, all wrapped in the fleg.

    308. Proud Cybernat says:

      “So, Joanne. You strongly believed that it was in Britain’s best interests to remain in the EU and that the EU fostered peace throughout Europe? Why do you no longer believe in those thinhs?”



    309. robertknight says:

      U K Rowling; billionaire Englishwoman, overt Yoon, pal of Gordon ‘Clunking Fist’ Broon and current resident of Edinburgh’s leafy suburbs to lead Project Fear II?

      We could start a series to chart her progress…

      Jocky Baiter and the Moaning Minnies

      Jocky Baiter and the Catalogue of Yoon Lies

      Jocky Baiter and the Prisoner of the Britnat Mindset

      Jocky Baiter and the Bucket of Yoon Pish

      Jocky Baiter and the Order of the Prime Minister

      Jocky Baiter and the Half-baked Campaign

      Jocky Baiter and the Deathly post-Yes Silence

    310. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT Anyone read oor Kevin’s piece today?

      Just wondered what he was up to playing a victim/sectarian card.

    311. DerekM says:

      I think the yoons will dig up bowie drape a UJ over his coffin and cut together a projection of him and cilla doing a duet about how much they love us Scots.

      Then beckam will come to the Scottish cup final wearing a UJ strip and kick a ball into the crowd,the jeers and half bricks will be edited with flowers and the sound track from Nuremberg.

      Then we will get a Dan special BBC history of Scotland and be shown as a bunch of barbarians that found enlightenment thanks to their benevolent friendly neighbours England,with special guest Oliver doing some cringe grovelling only a Scottish yoon can do.

    312. HandandShrimp says:

      Was looking at the Scot goes Pop site this morning where James is looking at a sub set of the latest poll. It is only a sub set but it makes for terrifying reading for Kezia. If accurate it would also suggest that the latest peel off from Labour has gone to the SNP and not Ruthie No Surrender…nor something that will please the Onionists.

    313. DerekM says:

      wooosht that last post went walkies i guess my bowie joke was too much,or maybe i should put my specs on when typing in my email address?

    314. Breeks says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      12 February, 2017 at 9:29 am

      “You couldn’t believe it. Radio Jockland is pushing JKR to lead Bitter Together in the coming referendum. Their stated thinking is that no one in Labour would want to repeated the error of associating itself with the Tory Party and no Tory would want the Job…”

      Its a strange thing about JKR, for all her support for Better Together, her Spanner associations, and jumping about the page like a mad thing, I still get the strangest feeling there’s a good Yesser in there trying to get out.

      If Indyref2 was a multiple choice exam, I’m reasonably confident she’d tick all the Yes friendly answers, but then inexplicably vote No at the end for the paradox.

      Its like she mostly “gets it”, but there are one or two “Lulu” ideas in that head of hers tasering the brain cells whenever they come close to figuring out YES and Scottish Independence. She is a living and breathing conundrum.

      I’m aware that might read like some dreadfully misogynistic dizzy blonde stereotype, but that’s honestly not how it’s meant. I think she’s an intelligent person, and generally a good pilgrim on life’s highway, but somebody who just doesn’t see the light just yet.

    315. Proud Cybernat says:

      You forgot:

      Jocky Baiter and the Stoned Philosopher

    316. liz says:

      Re England offering different countries different deals, well of course they will, it’s what they do, divide and rule.

      Oil,gas, water,fish are ‘low priority’according to UK gov.

      That means fish to Spain, countries with no oil, oil, dry countries,water.

      And hell mend Juncker, he thought he could play the BritEst when they got him to say he would block Scottish indy.

      As for Kev McK, I gave up reading any of his articles a long time ago as he is a weather vane

    317. louis.b.argyll says:

      Well said my friend..
      Those who work in uniform should be answerable, first, to society at large, local boards, not the establishment itself.

      Imagine if the health service, or the army, we’re regularly ‘promoting’ INSTEAD OF SACKING dodgy workers, to avoid accusations of incompetence.

      Too many nasty types have been fast-tracked into powerful positions, where they are easily manipulated into blind loyalty to loyalty itself.

      I’m off..(rubs hands expectantly)

    318. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Smallaxe Pearson was a Supt in Airdrie then went on to being a Ass Chief constable of Strathclyde Drugs Czar & then he was found out.

    319. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dorothy Devine says: 12 February, 2017 at 9:57 am:

      “Robin , I do believe some time back that the Scotsman was ‘outed’ as posting btl to get more hits.”

      Tell you what, Dorothy, I really cannot see any real harm being caused to the Indy movement by the Scotsman these days.

      Quite the reverse in fact. Anyone who reads such rubbish, and believes it, has already had their head turned so far by the propaganda that they no longer see where Scotland is going.

      They now can only see where Scotland has been but think it is where Scotland is going. They just cannot see where Scotland, and thus themselves, are now heading to because they are looking backward. However, the cliff edge before them is beyond their ken and the reality will only be realised by them when they are hurtling down into the abyss.

    320. gus1940 says:


      Before 1979 there were several hundred thousand council houses in Scotland.

      These houses were owned by the Local Authorities i.e. owned by the Scottish Nation and its citizens – A Scottish Asset.

      Along came Thatcher and her Right To Buy Legislation which gave tenants of said houses the Right To Buy Them at a substantial discount to their actual value dependent on the length of individual tenancies.

      On the face of it this legislation was to an extent laudable.

      However, the Thatcher Government instead of letting the then owners of the houses i.e. the Councils retain the proceeds of sales to build replacement houses for rent every penny of the proceeds was grabbed by Westminster.

      I don’t know the total amount to date stolen from Scotland by this scheme but surely it must be the Asset Stripping Exercise to end all Asset Stripping Exercise.

      Can anybody answer the following questions:-

      In 1979 how many council houses were there in Scotland.
      What was the total value of said housing stock in today’s figures.
      How many house have been sold under the Right To Buy Legislation.
      Allowing for Demolitions and New Builds how many Council Houses are there in Scotland today.
      What was the total real value of the houses sold.
      What has been the total proceeds of the discounted sales i.e the amount stolen by Westminster.

    321. Robert Peffers says:

      The thing about the border in Ireland is that there are more than two involved states. It does not just involve the two partitioned parts of the country of Ireland but also the EU/Schengen Area Agreement states.

      That border across Ireland not only separates the two parts of Ireland but will, on the United Kingdom,(de facto Parliament of England), leaving the EU be a border between an EU/Schengen Area and a non-EU member state.

      Even if the Republic and the N.I./UK/England government could reach an agreement, I very much doubt the EU Parliament would tolerate an wide open border that breached the EU/ Schengen Area borders to an unfriendly Non-EU, non-Schengen Area state.

      I may be seeing these things wrongly but it very much looks to me that Theresa May is delusional if she imagines the EU will want to make any concessions to a breakaway former member state and the Schengen Area states would also all have to agree no matter if the border be hard or soft.

    322. Valerie says:

      Can’t understand the stance of the NFU guy on Brewster show, lauding Brexit as an opportunity.

      He said an opportunity to sell our special brand of clean Scottish brand beef!

      What a bloody laugh. That brand protection is only guaranteed under EU. Outside EU it will quickly become UK beef, cheap or not? Then it’s up against every cheap imported piece of shit from USA, when May gets her food deal, which she must, as Wangland can’t feed itself.

      Who’s going to get these farmers and fishermen to wake up.

      Not to mention their special software subsidies.

    323. Ken500 says:

      In Scotland 55% of the population go to University. 30% by the age of thirty. 25% of mature students. One of the highest in the world.

      In Japan, China, Finland, South Korea etc 40% go to University.

      Japan (100million pop) has 100 University (plus colleges)
      China (1.3Billion pop) has 2200 Universities (plus colleges)
      Finland (5million pop) has 10 Universities (plus colleges)

      Scotland (5million+ pop) has 15 Universities (plus colleges)

      In South Korea (highest world test results) pupils study from 7am till 12pm Midnight. They get 6 hours sleep. That is abuse of children. Pupils commit suicide because of the stress and pressure. This would not be tolerated in most countries. The system is being changed to reflect more tolerable systems. Some graduates from other countries (Scotland) teach English there. One year contracts are enough because of the stress and pressure. Not healthy.

      In Finland children got to school at seven. Tested at nine years? Not comparable to 7 year old tests. Are 20%? of children of additional needs included? Not comparing like with like?

      In Scotland 55% go to Universities. 30% by 30 years. 25% mature students. Life long learning. There will be an increase because Labour/Unionists were mean testing loans on household incomes. Preventing working students from going to University. Some pupils with straight ‘A’ from lower income families could not afford to go to University.

      Other pupils go to College or apprenticeships. Skills and tradespeople can earn a comfortable living. 55% of people in Scotland to University. Mature students do extremely well. Many people do not want to go straight to uni from school. 15% of EU students with reciprocal agreement, % of foreign students paying the full amount/self financing, %? of students from elsewhere getting a subsidised uni education.

      Some University admissions Office take A levels as a higher qualification than ‘Highers’ on a diffenent curriculum. Scotland has a broader based system for more choice. Which is preferable. It encourages more and higher choice. The qualifications are the same and this should be recognised.

      The Unionists are not telling the truth. Unionists councils cut education budgets and spend funds on grotesque projects, non mandated. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Class sizes should be kept down and every teaching training course should have additional needs training. To help the teachers and pupils.

      Scotland has a long tradition of endorsing education. The first country in the world to support compulsory tertiary education. Scottish invention and discovery has influenced the modern world.

    324. Valerie says:


      Totally agree, this is my area.

      That information could be gathered at council level. Hell of a lot of digging at audit, financial level, but it is there.

    325. schrodingers cat says:

      glad to see alex promote the efta/eea option for an indy scotland

      it completely wrong foots the unionists

      we wont be applying for eu membership so wont be joining any imaginary queue if if it did exist

      applying for efta requires only the 4 members to agree
      applying to eea membership, via article 50 (not 49) requires a majority, not all 27 eu countries agreement. spain can do one.

      It gives scotland control over fishing and agricultural policy, fishermen will love it,

      most of all, it assures continued access to the single market. this is what alex (and me) believe will be the most important issue of indyref2 when the effects of proposing to leave it will be felt and seen during indyref2

    326. clipper says:

      Dr Jim said at 2.25am:

      “So given the UKs probable stance and current debt levels an Independant Scotland would very likely start out life as a new financially debt and deficit free republic, state, country, call it what you will

      Which would make Scotland an inordinately attractive place for business to want to come to and the EU to embrace
      Plus in such financial good health would we be that if we required international funding those institutions would be more than delighted to offer us the lowest of interest rates possible”

      It would also make it an inordinately attractive place for predatory criminal financial institutions from US Wall St looking for a new country to loot. In case anyone’s wondering I don’t mean that as representing any kind of downside I’m saying that the emergence of a new and comparatively rich country isn’t something that would be overlooked.

      They’d be looking for weak links in the power structure, those who could be bribed, blackmailed, threatened in some way into approving the implementation of their financial – debt – “products”, poisoning the economy which they’d then fleece.

      If our government was strong wise and smart they’d of course tell them where to shove it, that however would be denounced as “unamerican” and their msm pals would jump right in about how we’re a threat to freedom and democracy while in the background the cia would be looking for useful idiots who they could arm and fund and teach how to cause trouble. I’m of course thinking of the OO.

      So after indy the caretaker government and then the first elected one would need to be on the lookout for such moves from the likes of the US, and also make sure that the new security service is aware that one of their earliest and most important priorities would be to monitor and infiltrate the OO.

      Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after me!

    327. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 12 February, 2017 at 10:35 am:

      ” … New Zealand, an ex English colony too, one of the 57 commonwealth members, now planet toryboy’s new EU replacement. Its going to be great.”

      Whatever makes that delusional woman, and the delusional Westminster Establishment, imagine that the 57 former colonies, (Heinz Variety Style), are all falling over each other to re-join the British Empire that enslaved them, robbed them and cast them aside for their new found friends in Europe?

    328. Ken500 says:

      Mad cow disease banned exports of beef foodstuffs for years. 10 years? Russia until 2006. Bad husbandry. Pig ban. Resulted in less exports and more imports. Putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt. Cases have to be reported in the UK. Results in the most cases in the world are are reported in the UK. Originated in the US Alabama? Incidents are not legally compulsory reported in the US. More additives permitted. In the US they grow soyabeet to be fed to the cattle. Cut out the middleman eat more soya products. Best of beef/fish from Scotland is sold to Germany, France Spain etc. Migrants work in the farming and fishing industry. Now it is being claimed fish contains 10% plastics residues.

      EU standards would still be compulsory for any exports to the EU countries. Nearest biggest market. Tariffs would apply to most other countries which protect their own markets, including New Zealand. Australia, Venison is imported from NZ. The EU is banning and phasing out pesticides. The most common is being phased out within two years.

    329. Ken500 says:

      The US has been sanctioning and starving North Korea since the 1950’s. They are scared US/Allies will invade. All the missiles launches. China helps them out with aid and supplies.

    330. Ken500 says:

      The fishing and farming industry has been subsidised by taxpayers/EU funding for years. Subsidies and bail outs. Beef, pig bails out. Fishing bail outs. Investment Grants etc. £Billions.

    331. Meg merrilees says:


      Who will lead Better together 2? IMHO…

      JK going for a popularity hit. they hope her celebrity will attract but I think it would be to tempting for her and she’ll let the venom show.

      (t)Ruthless would seem to be the obvious choice BUT I think she has her eyes set on WM. They currently attribute the rise of the tories in Scotland to her success not labour’s failure. Therefore she can’t take the risk of losing – there’s too much at stake. Plus she’ll be an obvious target for the accusation of flip-flopping on Brexit, single market etc after the EU campaign.

      She could be the next PM!!! (she certainly thinks that, I’m sure – if she sees herself as FM then why not PM?).

      They’ll probably keep their powder dry until the council elections are over – more likely Murdo Fraser – who has aspirations to lead the tories here in Scotland anyway.

    332. HandandShrimp says:

      The NFU leadership are Tories who will stick to the party line until their wallets start to hurt. Then they will not hesitate to put the boot in.

    333. Brian Powell says:

      I’m sure all of Kevin McKenna’s many articles on Scotland is a Good Place to Be for (fill subject) doesn’t get published by the Guardian, tho Kev would desperately like them to be, or something.

    334. heedtracker says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      12 February, 2017 at 12:56 pm
      @heedtracker says: 12 February, 2017 at 10:35 am:

      Can you invent a madder tory world?

      21 hours ago, not 60 years.

      Crazy times for old Britannia.

      It would rather lovely to have EU style freedom of movement back and fore to Australia and New Zealand though.Currently you need to be more or less loaded, high skilled and ofcourse be nice.

      They ofcourse mean ex colonies like India and Pakistan. No doubt our imperial overlords will love to see millions of old colonial countries open their doors to everyone, nice, that is. Not like Heil Trump’s Mexican rapists. Who wants Mexican rapists anyway. But its ok, Mexico was just a Spanish colony. Whew.

    335. Meg merrilees says:

      Very interesting “Point of View’ this morning on R4, 08.48am – 10 minute talk from John Gray(?)

      “Protecting our way of life”

      Basic analysis along the lines of most of our problems today stem from wars with Iraq, Afghanistan. Trying to impose our western ideas on other countries; disrupting their lives, creating refugees, meanwhile spending so much on war, weapons and defence has meant we have not invested in our own countries education, housing, people, NHS.

      In the last 30 years USA has spent $14 trillion dollars on war!!! Don’t blame China for undercutting blame yourselves for underinvestment.

      VERY interesting, recommend a listen.

    336. heedtracker says:

      Brian Powell says:
      12 February, 2017 at 1:31 pm
      I’m sure all of Kevin McKenna’s many articles on Scotland is a Good Place to Be for (fill subject) doesn’t get published by the Guardian, tho Kev would desperately like them to be, or something.”

      I don’t get what Graun troy twerps are up to today. Is same sex marriage law anti Catholic, is Scottish democracy anti Catholic, is anything at all Scotland anti Catholic, in Scotland, is asking questions like these of rancid old Graun anti Catholic?

    337. Robert Graham says:

      Meg – Ruth the mooth can’t be PM , indeed NO Scottish MP can be PM under David Cameron’s EVEL . That’s how much we figure in this United Kingdom.
      So the mooth will have to contest and win an English Parlimentry seat ,
      Collections are being taken to assist her move south here is my contribution £ 10.00 more considered if required

    338. Meg merrilees says:

      I’ve always liked Ken Clarke- even more now!
      Absolutely agree, how far to the right have the rest of them lurched when he looks like a liberal and, as he said, Enoch Powell would be in shock to hear the likes of Amber Rudd’s remarks about a register of foreigners etc..

      bjs alba@8.34

      Any information about nuclear breaches and especially from old/damaged power stations is relevant to Scotland where we already have Dounreay problems, nuclear products being transported by road/rail/air and Trident missiles and nuclear warheads stored within a 35 mile radius of the majority of Scotland’s population.

      If there is under reporting of serious breaches of safety that needs to be discovered, outed and regulated better; particularly if that is deliberate government under reporting as in Fukushima and with a UK gov that wants to extend the life of power stations that are already getting to their sell-by date.

      Trident is only going to be serviced by the USA until 2024/5 – but the UK wants to keep it going past that date… they’ve already tried to hush up the missile test mishap in June 2016.

      I think it’s relevant to an independent Scotland to know the facts – knowledge is power.

    339. heedtracker says:

      In the last 30 years USA has spent $14 trillion dollars on war!!! Don’t blame China for undercutting blame yourselves for underinvestment.”

      You mean W’s Mission accomplished glory was a waste of time? Heil to the chief, yadee blah blah blah da da…

    340. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I note comments are not being allowed on Kevin McKenna’s “us poor wee oppressed Kaffliks” rant in the Observer today.

      The Guardian/Observer mangement are not daft, allowing btl comments on that would be opening a right can of worms.

    341. Meg merrilees says:

      Robert Graham

      Maybe (t)Ruthless is ahead of us on this one?

      Post-brexit Great England will be a one party, Tory state and she will be governor general of the northern prefecture, next in line to the Governor general….

      I hope NOT!

    342. heedtracker says:

      Ken500 says:
      12 February, 2017 at 1:10 pm
      The fishing and farming industry has been subsidised by taxpayers/EU funding for years.”

      It was the EU and UK membership of the EU that has saved what was left of not Scottish fishing stocks, nothing else.

      The idea of letting a tory nutter like that Bertie dude back in charge of what is actually left of North Sea fishing is stark staring mad.

      But we can only make life extinct once.

      Then Bertie and his merry band of tory ranters in Pacific Quay, can all go back to doing what they’re really good at, blaming everyone else for their short sighted greed.

      Or in precis, Alex Salmond ate my fish supper, so we’re Better Together.

    343. Meg merrilees says:

      I love this website:

      There are people who have expertise in oil and gas, statistics, history, council information, farming, fishing, law, submarines, finance, humour etc. etc. the list is endless.

      Such a brilliant resource!

      Mair power tae yir elbow, Rev!

    344. Dr Jim says:

      @Valerie re farmers and fishermen

      100% right, you heard the farmer say these words “I decided just to think about me” and like most of these folks they only see short term and then depend on the UK government to do what they think is the right thing which in the entire history of my life has been never

      The minute the UK “take back control” they’ll do exactly that and the folk who voted No in Scotland at our referendum should take serious note of this….

      The Tories don’t need Scottish votes to win in England and Labour don’t have a hope in hell for at least the next 20 years so why on earth would any English government of any colour give two hoots for any needs that Scotland might ever have, making Scotland more of a cash cow and bargaining chip than ever before for the cheapest of GM Ultra Hydrogenated crapiola imports from the great US of America
      completely removing the EU protections to branding quality and standards we already have thus ruining Scotlands brand by devaluation to the new British quality which we’re seeing in our supermarkets now of British flag labelling no matter where it comes from
      Why do supermarkets transport milk all the way up from England when we’re surounded by milk producers right here

      eg: Yorkshire Brook Trout on sale in Morrisons, Norwegian Salmon, Cod from who knows where, coz if you ask they can’t tell you
      Morrisons is like an advert for Ant an Dec with floor to ceiling Union flags on everything, and they’re not alone in doing it
      If Scotland has some of the best produce in the world why aren’t we seeing it being sold more in our supermarkets not less
      Why is a country surrounded by fish selling other countries fish and not our own

      Now somebody tell me this wasn’t a long term plan going right back to when Cameron introduced the new British Brand to replace Scottish Welsh and Irish

      Haven’t No voters noticed Scottish Haddock the best fish in the world being replaced with Cod from that place called Britain

      I buy nothing with a Union Flag on it out of principle, that’s my choice, not that I object to food from elsewhere I just don’t know where Britain is on my Lamb or Bacon or Beef or Eggs, even the stuff with the Saltire on has started displaying little tiny Union flags in the corners with the logo Team GB

      Rebellious Scots to crush!
      Well they’re getting on with the job of doing just that

    345. Robert Graham says:

      Meg ha ha oh god what a terrible thought, that’s it I am away to lie down. Ha Ha .

    346. Brian Powell says:

      I wonder if the farmers and fishermen are aware they live in the same country as the 62% who voted to stay in the EU,and all that follows from that.

      I spent the last 3 yrs campaigning against TTIP (and CETA) going to Brussels to demonstrate and lobby the MEPs and even the TTIP negotiators, then to Westminster to get MPs to sign EDM to have the deals scrutinised in Parliament. Even lobbying Fife Council so they made Fife a TTIP free zone.

      A large part of that was to protect the farmers from cheap GM imports of cereal and beef.

      After being part of a group who also arranged talks and discussions for farmers etc, one day I suddenly realised I’d been spending my time trying to get legal protection for the products of producers who wanted Scotland to be run from Westminster and also wanted the Tories to run all.

    347. Breeks says:

      @Brian Powell 2:54

      Don’t forget us folks who have to eat it… We appreciate the protection.

    348. heedtracker says:

      If Scotland has some of the best produce in the world why aren’t we seeing it being sold more in our supermarkets not less
      Why is a country surrounded by fish selling other countries fish and not our own

      Its UKOK nationalist chauvinism essentially. The owners and managers of UK supermarkets are as tory and Britnat as they come and underlying that, Scotland v England farts along at all levels of teamGB socio economics. England is UK, Scotland is part UK, and must always be no. 2, always.

      Why just enough Scots think this a good to way to run Scotland, is just another UKOK mystery. Fear, lack of self confidence, endlessly told you’re shite by all the usual tory BBC Scotland media twerps, and then the massed ranks of I’m alright jacks.

    349. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      The NFU and our Universities have been promised by the English Tories that they will be paid up until 2020.

      After that no one has a clue who will pay them or from which fund the money will come from.

      Would you put your trust in an English right-wing Tory???

    350. Brian Powell says:


      The irony is the Tories were happy for the deals to go ahead as is, and they are the Government who will sign the deals.

    351. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      Theresa May and her quest for Trade with other countries will sacrifice Scottish products to make sure that the South East of England/London survives.

      The rest of us will be left fighting for the scraps-AGAIN!

      We must get out of this madhouse UK or we really are finished.

    352. crazycat says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      At 12.37 you said

      The thing about the border in Ireland is that there are more than two involved states. It does not just involve the two partitioned parts of the country of Ireland but also the EU/Schengen Area Agreement states.

      That border across Ireland not only separates the two parts of Ireland but will, on the United Kingdom,(de facto Parliament of England), leaving the EU be a border between an EU/Schengen Area and a non-EU member state.

      Even if the Republic and the N.I./UK/England government could reach an agreement, I very much doubt the EU Parliament would tolerate an wide open border that breached the EU/ Schengen Area borders to an unfriendly Non-EU, non-Schengen Area state.

      The Repubic of Ireland is not currently a Schengen state:

      It has an opt-out (quote from my link above):

      There are six (6) more European Union members, that have not yet joined Schengen Area: Ireland and United Kingdom – that still maintain opt-outs and Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, and Cyprus – that are required to and are seeking to join soon.

    353. Robert Peffers says:

      @Meg merrilees says: 12 February, 2017 at 1:59 pm:

      “Maybe (t)Ruthless is ahead of us on this one?”

      Well Meg, If she is, it is because her sponsors in, “The Establishment”, remembered to tell her first before pissing leaking the story to the press and MainStreamMedia.

    354. Robert Peffers says:

      crazycat says: 12 February, 2017 at 3:24 pm:

      “The Repubic of Ireland is not currently a Schengen state:

      I never claimed it/they were. I said an open border between the two parts of Ireland involves the Schengen Area states.

      If contraband, (for example), can pass an open border between any EU country and a non-EU country, and the EU is signed up to the Schengen Agreement, then that open border affects all Schengen Agreement states as well as the EU member states.

      It provides a pathway for contraband, illegal immigrants, terrorists, etc. to travel unhindered through the open EU borders and across them into the Schengen areas across EU/Schengen borders.

    355. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Brian Powell @ 15:16,

      The bitter irony is, Brian, that the Tory Brexit Gov is so anxious to deals with anyone, but especially Trumpamerica Corp(TM), that they’re going to sign a bilateral deal that will be TTIP-on-steroids (both fig. and lit.)

      (A lot of excellent posts on this thread, BTW. Very refreshing.

      I especially liked gus1940‘s posting at 14:23 yesterday, asking how Brillo can be so partisan on Twitter yet still be employed by the BBC as a supposedly neutral observer. Can’t think why either…(!)

      And it’s nice to see others also asking for far more of a spotlight to be shone on that dodgy outfit Scotland in Union. Any bets if their very own “financial magazine editor” Merryn will be back on QT again in Glasgow on Thursday…?)

    356. Kupo says:

      Listen up, everyone. The Iscot fundraiser is sitting stalled at 26% which is £10,365 pounds out of the total of £40,000 required to keep this excellent magazine going with only 10 days remaining.

      I think the majority of wingers would agree we don’t want to see this going down the toilet without a fight, not at this critical juncture in our fight for independence. We need to maintain and nurture as many diverse pro-indy initiatives as we can.

      I’m no good with the links, however, so maybe Nana can help post it again. Or alternatively go on website.

      Finally, any and all donations are much appreciated, thanks.

    357. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      O/T but in response to some earlier postings.

      I have a different take on the contribution that Henry McLeish is currently making. I believe that it’s quite wrong to simply write him off as a “has-been”.

      He has indeed been swithering over the issue of indy for some considerable time, and I got quite annoyed with his previous contribution in The National some time ago, where he seemed to be trying to promote the dead-duck Labour “neo-federalist” line.

      But last Saturday’s contribution was quite different, I believe. He was posing the kind of questions that have resonance with the very people we need to win over, the “reluctant no’s”. When confronted with such questions, it is surely getting harder and harder for these folk to answer in the positive for staying in the union. This kind of thing goes to the nub of the issue and cuts through all the unionist propaganda. And once people have been joggled out of their rut, they are far more open to the kind of story they can pick up on pro-indy blogs like this one.

      I think that Breeks upthread is right, it’s hard to think why even somebody like Jakey won’t eventually get it, even if the BLis leadership rump never will.

      I think there is now every prospect of a shift among the Labourite ranks now. They have been held in place heretofore by raw tribalism, but once they realise that their basic take on things is not threatened by indy, on the contrary, that it can only hope to survive under indy, it’s “game on” with a vengeance.

      49% is just the starting point this time. I have never been so positive before about this.

    358. crazycat says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      Ok. I agree that a “frictionless” border in Ireland is pie in the sky – whether Theresa May herself believes in it, I can’t tell.

      But whether

      [an open border within Ireland] provides a pathway for contraband, illegal immigrants, terrorists, etc. to travel unhindered through the open EU borders and across them into the Schengen areas across EU/Schengen borders

      seems to me to depend on the nature of the Schengen borders (between EU countries or between EU and non-EU ones).

      I’ve been searching for some reliable evidence about what happens now at the borders of the Schengen area. The best I’ve found so far, which I don’t think is sufficient for my purpose, is this:

      The Schengen provisions abolish checks at the Union’s internal borders, while tightening controls at the external borders, in accordance with a single set of rules.
      (My emphasis)

      If the Republic of Ireland were in Schengen, there would certainly be an (adverse) impact from an open border within the island of Ireland. Since it’s not, and won’t be any time soon, any consequences depend on Schengen rules.

      That is why I thought it was worth pointing out that the RoI is non-Schengen, for the benefit of anyone unaware of that. (My link had a nice map in it, too.)

    359. heedtracker says:

      Would you put your trust in an English right-wing Tory???

      Does England have sock puppets like Ruth Davidson smearing the English like this?

      “Scottish Conservative leader was speaking at an event attended by Prime Minister Theresa May when she told the audience: “I’m delighted we have such spectacular surroundings,”

      The Tory MSP added: “Usually they put the Scots in a place where nothing can be broken. Or stolen for that matter!”

      While tory media reprobates fart out stuff like,

      Whatever they say about the English, they wouldn’t tolerate a tory like Ruth.

    360. Masslass says:


      Just donated to iScot magazine fundraiser. Thanks for the reminder

    361. galamcennalath says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I think there is now every prospect of a shift among the Labourite ranks now.

      Indyref1 was fought by the Unionists with a mix for fearmongering about Indy and false promises about post-NO. The main thing is there was virtually no mention by either side about the actual ‘state of the Union’. The YES side stayed relentlessly positive and didn’t cricicise the Union. The NO side just avoided making a case for it.

      Indyref2 will be quite different on this latter aspect. The Brexit Tory led Union is a complete shambles. I just cannot imagine Labour standing so firmly behind it this time (as you point out).

      The NO side, whoever they are, will fearmonger again but with much less effect. As for promises of greater powers for Holyrood, only an imbecile would beleive that.

      I’m still not impressed much with McLeish, however moving away from a Labour “neo-federalist” line Is a step in the right direction. Some, Kezia for instance, are still trying to flog that dead horse. But for how much longer can they stick with that when it’s basically no hope nonsense?

      Perhaps, Labour folks are all looking at each other wondering who will jump first towards Indy.

    362. Smallaxe says:

      louis.b.argyll & ronnie anderson:

      Thanks for acknowledging my post guys, my timing of things may be slightly off but what I say about this G.P. I can prove. Ronnie, I come originally from Barlanark if you know anything about the place then you will know who G.Ps. paymaster was.This whole thing goes from the “ice cream” wars to Spain and Afganistan: G.P. is MI6. I know what I know.

      Peace Always

      Ps, sorry about delay in answering

    363. Stoker says:

      Some WOS archive links for July 2013 now over on O/T.

    364. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      Ruth Davidson

      … she’s best the Tories have, ‘north of the wall’. She’s probably the only useful asset they have here!

      Her ‘trick’ for the Holyrood elections was to pretend not to be a ‘real Tory’, not one of those nasty ones from down south. Someone used the phrase ‘firewall’, yes, she placed a firewall between her and London HQ,

      However she has been forced to U turn on Brexit and single market. She is going to find it very difficult to defend her new position as pro-Hard-Brexit.

      For some reason even soft NOs have a high opinion of her. We need to kick the firewall down and tarnish her with all that is bad about Tory Brexit UKnotOK.

    365. Black Joan says:

      Meg Merilees @ 1.38pm. Agreed. Well said — that Point of View programme this morning, by philosopher John Gray, is essential listening.

      He tells how the Chinese billionaire founder of the Ali Baba enterprise told those assembled at Davos that the USA has squandered $14 trillion dollars on wars over the last 30 years. Money that could have been invested in the USA and its people, but which, instead, has increased terror and brought about huge migrations of refugees.

      Whether Trident, our supposedly “independent” nuclear “deterrent”, features in this calculation is doubtful, so that’ll be a few billion more poured into the bottomless pit so that the UKOK true believers can continue to preach austerity while boasting that our foodbanks are defended by weapons of mass destruction, even as military experts and the warmonger Blair himself agree that Trident is obsolete.

      Listen to the programme and be inspired to free Scotland from Westminster’s nuclear madness.

    366. Robert Louis says:

      Kupo and Nana at 445pm,

      Just to help iSCOT further,

      Glad to see support for iSCOT magazine increasing. They REALLY ARE the alternative Scottish media we all say we need.

      Link at t

      If you have not already seen a print or digital copy of this Scottish owned, made, printed and published high quality magazine about Scotland, then you should try it. Worth supporting, if you can.

    367. Robert Louis says:

      Robert J.Sutherland at 431pm,

      I agree, I think the times are changing and soft NO’s from the Labour party are now realising that in reality their future no longer resides in Westminster. Independence could be the only route to see some kind of re-birth in the Labour party popularity in Scotland. If however, their is another independence referendum, and Labour decide to back the London establishment and Tories again, then I think they will be finished.

      It has taken a long time, but maybe some in the Labour party have finally clicked that Scottish politics have permanently diverged from those in England. It isn’t 1997 anymore.

      Henry McLeish asking the right questions is a positive step. Besides, the harsh reality is, that brexit is going to eventually be extremely unpopular, as people in Scotland (and later, England) realise the damage that will be done. If Labour in Scotland do not grasp the opportunity at the next indyref, then I do think they will be finished forever in Scotland. They will either be with Scotland or against it.

      They might never be forgiven, if they make the wrong choice.

      Like yourself, I too feel very much more positive this time around. As you say, the starting point is 49% this time, before we even start campaigning and the case for independence is now even stronger.

    368. bjsalba says:

      @Meg merrilees at 1.55pm

      You didn’t check out that site and its authors, did you?

      Any information is relevant? Even when it comes from a questionable source?


    369. heedtracker says:

      Published 20 hours ago, not 80 years ago, in fascist ruled Germany or Italy.

    370. Robert Graham says:

      O/T Just been watching the Keizer Report on RT episode 1031 , he was discussing the EURO and the European Union,with Jim Rickards a financial guy I haven’t heard of him before,anyway quite openly and without hesitation he talks about countries leaving the European Union he says ain’t going to happen, but he expects one country to join after they leave the UK -Scotland -, well that fairly made my day , an open acceptance unprompted well that will do me Ha Ha , let’s hope that becomes the norm.

    371. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 17:13:

      Perhaps, Labour folks are all looking at each other wondering who will jump first towards Indy.

      That’s a very interesting observation, it has the ring of truth to it.

      I was thinking more about yer average trad-Lab voter, though, rather than party members. The electorate may just silently shift their allegiance at a future election or referendum without warning, seeing Labour all over the place beforehand. “Fighting for a good deal” after having jumped off the Brexit cliff and lying smashed on the rocks below, as WGD put it.

      The metaphor that comes to my mind is the sea-dike: a few little breaches here and there may not be much to begin with, but they widen, the damage escalates, and before long the whole thing is overcome.

      The writing is on the wall for Labour. Once the EU punctures the UKGov fantasy bubble promoted by the media, things could indeed get far more ugly. If the leadership in Scotland don’t come to terms with that fairly soon, they really are heading for extinction. It’s as existential for them as that.

      We’re offering them a lifeboat, FGS – do we think that all of them will still refuse to get in?!

    372. Shinty says:

      To all you good Wingers out there.

      iScot magazine really needs some help with their crowdfunding.

      For those of you who buy The National – could you give it up for a week and donate £5? It’s a beautiful glossy with great articles and needs a far wider audience. We are always complaining we don’t have any pro-indy press.

      Just think how much better it could be with some realistic funding. I’d rather see iScot on the top shelf than the Unionist leaning Scottish Field, wouldn’t you?

    373. Liz g says:

      Galamcennalath @ 5.13
      I think your right about how the Unionists just avoided mentioning the Union last time,and this time will be different.

      IMHO we should start asking….Sell it to me….Tell me what is so precious about it,oh and I already know it’s old!
      You are asserting it’s a success… Explain it then!
      As I say, this time they should be asked to…Sell it to me!!

      But and it’s a big but, only from people who have a vote…All their Celebs, Politician, big buisness, banker’s ect…
      Then the question should be….What has it to do with you,this is Scotland’s business,mind your own!

      We will have the discussion and you will know soon enough what Scotland decided.

      I am sick trying to justify to people who don’t have a vote why my country needs to reshape it’s Government,if they don’t live here and don’t have a vote,they are wasting our time.
      Especially since most of those who are asking are using the information to damage our position.

      If the Yes/Indy side of the debate have to hold their own.
      Then so should the Unionists,we should not engage with those from outwith Scotland running interference in the discussion!

      We haven’t had enough time to deal with the MSM,so I think the only way around this,is to Campaign in Town Halls and Street Stalls, to really talk amongst ourselves where the media don’t go,and to an extent not engage with a London run anything!

    374. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: iScot magazine.

      If you’ve never seen a copy of iScot, you can go to the link below and read/browse the entire February 2017 issue for free.

      All you do is select the “Single Issue – February 2017” option, add it to your cart, then check out. Only takes a couple of minutes max.

    375. galamcennalath says:

      Liz g says:

      … asking….Sell it to me….Tell me what is so precious about it,oh and I already know it’s old!

      Excellent strategy! I will use that one for sure on anyone saying they are NO.

      “OK, you see your future in the UK. Sell it to me. Tell me what is going to be good about the UK?”

      And your observation that with their first reply will be based on the past and nostalgia is spot on. That should be countered straight off. I used future tense in the example above.

      Anyone coming back their ubiquitous answers related to the past can be challenged with something like “yes, we can all read history books, but sell me the Union for the future”.

      It reminds me of someone saying something like, in 2014, “vote NO for your past, or vote YES for your future”.

    376. galamcennalath says:

      I’ve always subscribed to iScot magazine. It arrived by post.

      However, I have NEVER seen it on the shelves of news agents or supermarkets.

      Now, I’m sure the guys have tried to get it distributed through normal channels.

      And, presumably failed for political reasons?

      Perhaps we need a campaign of asking for it?

    377. Glamaig says:

      For me one of the emotional bonds to the Union is the Second World War. The myth of standing alone against Hitler. Its become almost a Creation Myth for the UK. Good story, but wartime propaganda has become the history written by the victors. We had all those Polish, Free French, Czech, Belgian etc fighter pilots, the resources of the entire Empire at our back, supplies from the USA. So we didnt really do it on our own. But it is a good story with emotional appeal and within living memory of many, and a huge thing for my parents generation.

      Apart from that whats left? Its now over 70 years ago and Europe has changed out of all recognition since then, thanks to the EU.

      And First World War? well its not such a clear cut good guys against bad guys story, and such a senseless blood bath its hard to make a case for the Union out of it, anyway thousands of Irish fought and died in it and theyre independent now.

      Then theres the Welfare State – now being steadily dismantled. Post-war consensus – gone.

      If No voters can get over the Battle of Britain, admit the post-war consensus has gone for ever, and critically examine the Union theres not much left.

    378. Shinty says:

      Liz -We haven’t had enough time to deal with the MSM,so I think the only way around this,is to Campaign in Town Halls and Street Stalls, to really talk amongst ourselves where the media don’t go,and to an extent not engage with a London run anything!

      Couldn’t agree more.

      The Daily Mail has a massive influence on a lot of Scots – I can spot a DM reader at 10 paces but not all of them are right wing zealots. They buy the paper for it’s great weekend magazine TV etc. -don’t mind admitting I bought it myself many years ago during their series of the incredible ‘magic eye’

      Fortunately, I managed without great difficulty to wean myself off the DM, but others have stuck with it. They believe everything they read as gospel, they have no concept of a newspaper telling lies, older generation yes, but not exactly thickos. They just don’t use the internet much and rely on their newspaper for information.

      So I agree Town Halls and Street Stalls should be used to guide people to source information, not necessarily ram it down their throats.

      Remember, children (and adults) generally only learn by their own mistakes. Parents can guide a child and try to teach them right and wrong, but again, it’s outside influences which shape everyone of us.

    379. Arabs for Independence says:

      kupo et al

      I concur – iScot is an excellent magazine. Glad to contribute.

    380. Glamaig says:

      BBC News Channel just reporting I Daniel Blake win at BAFTA. BBC dude sounds unenthusiastic and plays long clip, silent, while talking over it. Never seen them play a silent clip of a BAFTA winner before 🙂

    381. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “I never claimed it/they were. I said an open border between the two parts of Ireland involves the Schengen Area states.”

      How does it involve the Schengen Area states if neither Ireland nor UK (Northern Ireland) are Schengen Area states?

    382. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Liz g,

      Yes, I think one question to the Unionists during indyref2 we’re surely not going to let them dodge this time is “What’s your plan A, then?”!

    383. Undeadshuan says:

      The government lurches ever right wards

      Once UK leaves EU and European court of justice.

      Pity help us if we arent independent.

    384. Fred says:

      @ Smallaxe, anent the Bar L, Calton Jock has some interesting stuff on Pearson, nothing worse than a bent cop!

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