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Emergency cases

Posted on August 14, 2014 by

The Scottish and UK press has been more and more careless about disguising its bias as the referendum nears. Almost every paper, for example, reported without question the recent “Better Together” press release about being “inundated” with small donations after the first TV debate between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling.

Normally headlines would put the statement – which was completely unsubstantiated by the slightest scrap of evidence – inside quote marks or accompanied by qualifiers like “No camp claims”, but instead it was almost universally presented as fact.

“Better Together inundated with cash after debate” (The Guardian)

“Flood of donations sees Better Together hit campaign limit” (Daily Express)

The official pro-UK campaign has publicly called for Scots to stop giving it money after a flurry of donations following Alex Salmond’s TV debate defeat.” (The Telegraph, slipping a sneaky wee bit of editorialising in too)

Calling for people to stop sending money was nothing more than a moderately clever PR stunt – the official No campaign already has more cash from millionaire Tory donors than it’s actually allowed to spend by September 18th, so there’s little point in continuing to accumulate it – but the papers obediently played along anyway.

markcarney

The donations story, though, was essentially a piece of trivia. A much more serious matter was the Bank of England’s inflation report yesterday, and the embellishment and exaggeration applied to it by certain outlets revealed a great deal about publications which still officially claim to be neutral.

The entire report can be read on the BoE website. We’ll save you a bit of time, though, because we’ve already done the search – you won’t find the word “emergency” in it anywhere. Indeed, it makes no reference to the independence referendum at all.

The transcript of the press conference with the bank’s governor Mark Carney can also be found on the website. The word “emergency” doesn’t appear in that either. Having been fed a lurid, leading question about sterlingisation and “deposit flights” by the BBC’s Kamal Ahmed, the governor’s reply was very brief and characteristically careful and undramatic.

“Uncertainty about the currency arrangements could raise financial stability issues. We will, as you would expect us to have contingency plans for various possibilities.

It’s never a good idea to talk about contingency plans in public other than to assure people that we have contingency plans. And I’d just underscore that in terms of our responsibilities for financial stability, we do have a wide range of tools and plans.”

It’s interesting to note that response – “It’s never a good idea to talk about contingency plans in public” – in the light of the No campaign and media’s constant screaming that the First Minister must discuss his “Plan B” for currency.

A press that was as biased in favour of independence as the actual one is against it might have chosen to spin that as a coded criticism of the Unionist side. But we’re not going to do that. Instead we’re going to look at how the comments were reported.

“Bank of England makes emergency plans in case of Scottish independence” (The Guardian)

Governor Mark Carney today revealed the emergency strategy had been devised despite polls predicting a No vote.” (Daily Record)

The Bank of England has drawn up emergency plans to deal with any threat to Britain’s ‘financial stability’ after a Yes vote for independence next month.” (The Scotsman)

“Bank of England bosses have put emergency plans in place amid fears of financial chaos if Scotland votes for independence.” (The Scottish Sun)

You get the idea – DOOM! PANIC! APOCALYPSE! Yet Carney’s actual words couldn’t have been calmer. He repeated that the BoE would implement whatever it was told to by politicians. The closest he came to expressing an opinion was to note that “uncertainty” over currency might cause “financial stability issues”, after which he said something quite interesting:

“We are not the only authority that has responsibility for financial stability, and some of the things that we – some of the powers that we have are held jointly with Her Majesty’s Treasury, so we’re not the sole decision maker in these areas.”

Again, a differently-aligned media might put an entirely different spin on those remarks. They could quite plausibly be interpreted as “in the event of a Yes vote, the Treasury is jointly responsible for financial stability and better stop playing games with the UK’s economy by rejecting the idea of a currency union, because that would cause uncertainty and chaos on both sides of the border”.

But of course, they’d be putting words in the governor’s mouth, just as surely as the actual media has done today. Mark Carney didn’t talk about an “emergency”. He certainly didn’t say that a Yes vote would be the cause of one.

What he actually said was that if the referendum went a particular way, the only people who COULD be responsible for instability were the Bank and the UK Treasury. He noted – one might say “pointedly”, were the governor’s deadpan poker face not so expertly disciplined – that of those two entities the Bank was prepared for any eventuality, but that it was dependent on the Treasury acting sensibly and responsibly.

But “Bank Of England Chief Warns UK Government Not To Do Anything Stupid And Irresponsible If Scotland Votes For Independence” isn’t the headline the Scottish media wants to write, so instead we get “Voting Yes Will Cause An Emergency”.

Scotland stubbornly still refuses to be quite scared enough for the No camp’s liking, so the bombardment of fear never lets up. But it’s running out of time.

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    1. 14 08 14 13:13

      Emergency cases | Scottish Independence News

    188 to “Emergency cases”

    1. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      Once again we find ourselves peering through the looking glass of union politics…….

    2. Cath says:

      Surely if there isn’t a currency union, the BoE will have to be broken up, or at least Scotland’s share bought out by rUK. And probably that third of UK debts owed by us, the taxpayer, to the taxpayer owned BoE – i.e. both owed by and to us – will need to be written off? Certainly the idea Scotland will take a share of the debt owed to the BoE, but not be entitled to the what’s owed to it is just stupid.

      The BoE is a shared asset. So does Carney have a contingency plan for it’s break up and sharing out as an asset if it’s not shared via a CU?

    3. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      What is the prize for these journalists and the papers that own them? What do they want?

    4. Another set of scare tactics used by the media to make us all think that us voting Yes will cause everything to collapse. Time is running out for Better Together, the fear mongering will continue But Scotland could never be described as cowardly.

    5. galamcennalath says:

      “Scotland stubbornly still refuses to be quite scared enough for the No camp’s liking”

      I certainly hope there is a Yes win announced on the 19th, Scotland needs one. However there’s just a wee bit of me which will rejoice that justice has been done and Project Fear proves to have been the wrong tactic for the NaeSayers.

    6. Kenny says:

      This “contingency plan” thing really bugs me. My sister worked in the civil service for a while and part of her role was in “contingency planning.” Now, this involved things like what would happen to the department in the event of a massive communications breakdown or a nuclear strike or whatever, but it also included things like “what happens if none of the people with keys for the filing cabinet come in to work one day?” or “what happens if you need expenses signed off and all the authorised signatories are on holiday?” The UK Government claims to have made NO contingency plans for Scottish independence, even as it threatens their entire nuclear arsenal and the stability of their whole currency system and wider economy. They’re either liars or they’re in dereliction of duty. Either way, let’s get rid of the lousy bloody lot of them.

    7. pr1mate says:

      The papers are running scared. Cameron went limp when it came to introducing some form of press regulation. Will an independent Scotland?

    8. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      The White Queen to Alice-
      “You couldn’t have it if you did want it. The rule is, jam tomorrow and jam yesterday- but never jam to-day.

      Pro-unionist strategy preducted by Lewis Carrol, a hundred & 50 years in advance.

    9. Wings Over Reality says:

      A contingency plan is something that is drawn up for when a crisis or worst-case scenario occurs.

    10. heedtracker says:

      Most blatant TV propaganda currency frightener yesterday delivered by BBC in Scotland tea time news, prior to J Bird sneering/eye rolling at Alex Salmond for 15 minutes. The liggers long “currency flight,” scary music, scarier shots of cash machines flying away, nearly, in case you didn’t quite catch BBC’s deary vote no or no money propaganda bleh.

      Its one messed up vote NO campaign when BBC is desperately trying to cause as much financial instability as possible.

    11. Seasick Dave says:

      I just Tweeted to the RBS:

      @RBS_Help Will we still be using pounds in Scotland after a Yes vote?

      They replied:

      @Dave_offshore Hi Dave, if this is the case we will be (sic) use what currency we are told to use by the Scottish government. JL

    12. HandandShrimp says:

      I think a little alarmingly for Better Together, Carney’s words appear to suggest that the sky will not fall if there is a Yes vote. They really, really want “the sky will fall” headlines for the next 5 weeks.

    13. fred blogger says:

      that’s the way i saw it no panic, every thing is under control.
      then we have the “dads army” response from MSM.
      shock horror a yes vote will bring change.
      change is bad, unless it is them saying what the change must be!

    14. Indy_Scot says:

      It is difficult to put into words how little respect the Scottish and UK media have for Scotland.

    15. JWil says:

      I did have a chuckle when I read that Better Together were turning away donations. Such abandon and carefree nonchalance!

      It seems that the donations are still coming into the YES campaign. A big one from Souter.

      Will the Unionist press still be keeping the scores?

    16. G H Graham says:

      Better Together have screamed for months that the only way to keep the Pound is to vote NO.

      I’m voting YES, so would one of the NO supporters visiting these pages care to explain …

      1. On which day, will all the Pounds Sterling in my bank account will be confiscated?

      2. And by whom?

      3. And how might I be compensated, if at all? Gold is my preference but to be honest any currency will do.

      Schiphol airport for example doesn’t seem to care one jot whether I’m making purchases at the Duty Free with US Dollars, Pounds Sterling or Euros. I’m sure that a similar arrangement could be made here.

      Take yer time. There’s five weeks to come up with your plan.

    17. David McCann says:

      The Scottish government should now seek clarification from Mark Carney, that in the event of the UK refusing to enter a currency union, what proportion of the B of E assets will acrue to Scotland

    18. JWil says:

      The trouble with Jackie Bird is that she cannot hide her bias when she should be constrained, at least, to make some pretext that she is following the BBC’s code of conduct on neutrality.

      She will be trying to balance it in her interview with Darling tonight, no doubt (?), but this way of spreading the perceived neutrality of the BBC over several days is just another way of trying to fool the people. It is no substitute for having the two contenders face to face.

    19. hetty says:

      Looks like the secret polls revealed a weakness in fears of the moneyed folk and this manifests as greed being the driving force behind the no camp and many no voters.
      If you have very little and no savings, and very possibly no bank account, currency is of little consequence.
      They are pandering to the well off and the I am alright Jack mentality, so no change there.

    20. Macart says:

      I’ll maybe get scared tomorrow…

      … or maybe not.

      Of the things I’m most scared of? Watching as the Scottish electorate are robbed blind and left to rot for another generation whilst being powerless to do anything about it goes right to the top of the list.

    21. Quentin Quale says:

      I’m sure Mr Darling will be furious with this disgraceful standard of journalism shown by the MSM and will set the record straight in tonight’s BBC interview. Erm.

    22. heedtracker says:

      @ HandandShrimp, what will happen, if its not happening already, is Carney and the BoE actually telling BBC etc to cool it or else. The else being the BoE having to try and stop all their propaganda seriously damaging BoE monetary policy.

    23. JWil says:

      BTW What has happened to Douglas Fraser? BBC Scotland’s key disser on business matters. Not available just when they need him most.

    24. fred blogger says:

      ps sorry, i forgot to comment on the donations non-story, i can’t think why.
      “oh! we have so much support we don’t know which way to turn.”
      my dads bigger than your dad, smacks of childish desperation, from the no camp.
      there i have.

    25. Pentland Firth says:

      Well said HandandShrimp, and Bravo for Rev Stu’s spot on assessment of the MSM’s coverage of Mark Carney’s responsible observations. Will any journalist ask H.M. Treasury if they have made contingency plans to avoid any possible financial instability in the event of a Yes vote? Carney has put the ball firmly in Osborne’s court, so one might think that the main stream media might think it worthwhile to follow the story up. I’m not waiting with bated breath.

    26. Les Wilson says:

      As I have said before, these are co-ordinated attacks by the MSM. Someone put these things together. I would love to know just who?

    27. Jim says:

      They know a vote will be close either way so of course they have contingency plans in place, it would be extremely stupid not to have. The same for Trident although that is not a pressing problem as everyone realises it wont be relocated the day after independence.

    28. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’m wondering how much longer wee George Osborne will allow the Bank of England to remain an independent institution. I can just see it now, after a YES win on 19th September wee George Osborne goes to the House of Commons on the 20th of September to announce that the Bank of England was returning to the overall control of the Treasury. (He’ll be heard to say during his speech “That’ll sort those pesky upity Scots out once and for all” 😛 )

    29. Pentland Firth says:

      JWil – I understand that Douglas Fraser is on sick leave.

    30. Kenny says:

      Wings over Reality – no it’s not. A contingency plan is a plan for when anything unusual or unexpected happens. As I just explained, government departments make contingency plans for EVERYTHING so that no matter what happens, governance continues. It doesn’t have to be a “worst case scenario.” It just needs to be something that is different to how things run when everything is normal and steady.

    31. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Wings over Reality

      “A contingency plan is something that is drawn up for when a crisis or worse-case scenario occurs.”

      Errrrr, no it isn’t.

      Oxford Dictionaries online definition of “contingency plan”:-

      “A plan designed to take account of a possible future event or circumstance.”

      Nothing about “emergency”, “crisis” or “worse case”. Unless, of course, you are a BT cheerleading newspaper or unionist troll.

    32. Lesley-Anne says:

      Pentland Firth says:

      JWil – I understand that Douglas Fraser is on sick leave.

      Perhaps he has seen the light and realised that independence IS the way to go and he is so sick of all the s***e he has been spouting over recent years that he had to have time off, go visit the “Darkened Room” for a prolonged lie down to regain his mind before returning a rejuvenated individual ready willing and able to shoot BT full of holes. 😛

      There again maybe he is just ill. 😀

    33. Triskelion says:

      Can you imagine what it would be like if the press was biased in favour of independence but publishing the same ludricrous stories?

      Scotish oil might last 10.000 years.

      An independent Scotland will be crime free

      Poverty will be almost instantly erradicated if scots vote yes

      Scots will reach Jupiter by 2024 if they vote for independence

      An independent Scotland could become a world superpower

      Johan Lamont has declared herself ‘an admirer of Mao and his methods’

      Scotland will be invaded by Malasia if it votes No

      The UK will bring about the 4th reich

      Confirmed: No more diseases in Scotland if it votes for independence

      Scots will be immortal within 40 years of independence

    34. heedtracker says:

      @ Kenny, As I just explained, government departments make contingency plans for EVERYTHING

      Really Ken? So when City Banksters finally came clean and told Flipper, we’re bust but rich, what contingency plan did teamGB gov kick into action?

      Plus same UK.gov had a lot of warning signs with Northern Rock going bust a year prior. Hey ho, head in the better together No Thanks sand.

      Plus plus, same City Banksters have fought off all and any Bank regs that might prevent them repeating 2008 all over again, and why would they.

    35. Kenny says:

      And for what it’s worth, Carney at least grasps that he has some serious issues to deal with either way. A currency union will require a series of changes to BoE governance which could be a hassle for him to implement. No currency union means he’s got to manage the removal of RBS, Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale deposits, division of other gold and currency reserves, division of other assets (material assets like the actual building on Threadneedle Street, for example, or the debt held by the Bank) and much more. Oh, that some journalist might ask the No campaign how they expect to manage these divisions!

      (Just as a final point, let’s use the dreaded divorce analogy. The Bank of England was nationalised in 1946. That means it’s a jointly owned asset of both parties to the marriage. In the event of a divorce, there would normally be negotiation over dividing the assets (or sharing non-divisible assets). However, if negotiations break down irretrievably, a judge will tend to divvy them up as fairly as possible. In the case of the BoE, how would that be possible? Would we be forced to re-privatise the Bank of England and split the money raised proportionately between Scotland and rUK? WE NEED ANSWERS, NO CAMPAIGN!)

    36. TD says:

      Whatever the outcome of the referendum, politics and the relationship between the press and the public are never going to be the same again. I may have been naive – I believed that we lived in a fundamtenally decent country and that, OK, some things needed sorted out, but essentially this was a good place to live.

      The referendum process has opened my eyes. And the Rev Stu has played a huge part in that, so thanks to him. The MSM are completely cynical in their attempts to manipulate us. Most of our politicians are disingenuous at best, criminally corrupt at worst.

      Mark Carney has a job to do and as far as I can tell, he seems to do it reasonably well. Compare and contrast his measured tones, in which he calmly delivers intelligent comments, with the histrionics of the media and for example Danny Alexander. Carney has the air of a professional. Alexander has the air of a daft laddy with an unsavoury personal agenda and who has been promoted way beyond his level of competence. Carney inspires confidence. Alexander inspires alarm that such a fool could occupy such an important position.

      After Sep 18, I for one will be far less reliant on the MSM to stay informed. I truly hope that Wings, Newsnet, Bateman, Bella and the others keep going and continue to shed light on dark places that most people did not know existed.

    37. heedtracker says:

      @ Triskelion, Independent Scotland will discover cure for cancer, Eleonar Bradford reports with honesty, veracity and certainly not feeding Scots.gov bogus lines of attack

      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9574-bbc-scotland-reporter-accused-of-using-bogus-figures-in-nhs-scare-story

    38. Training Day says:

      Listening to Lamont, Davidson and Rennie misrepresenting Carney at FMQs now.

      Our parliament is debased by these chancers. They have absolutely nothing to offer but hate, spite, and malice towards the Scottish people.

      In the name of God, Scotland, get rid of these cowards on the 18th September.

    39. Brian Fleming says:

      I reckon the ridiculous overinterpretation of Carney’s words by the MSM could simply be how they read what he said through their red, white and blue-tinted spectacles. It could be they think they’re being objective. Of course, it could also be they’re just a bunch of Unionist bams.

    40. caz-m says:

      I see Wullie Rennie is still having problems getting his wedding ring off.

    41. Kenny says:

      heedtracker – Actually, that’s kind of the problem with “light touch” regulation. Back in the old days when such things were managed quietly behind closed doors, the BoE governor, the Chancellor and the bank involved would have had a very discreet meeting with another finance house or two and plans would be put in place to provide liquidity and, as far as possible, keep any concerns private to avoid scaring the horses. In the mess we got with Gordon Brown’s reforms, no-one really knew who was responsible so no-one quite knew how to respond. That’s why we almost entered a full-scale banking panic. In the end though, the plan they came up with was not so far from what would have been “normal” practice in previous crises – do whatever is needed to prevent a run on the bank, get liquidity in place and then do what you can to stabilise everyone else so it doesn’t happen again.

    42. Helena Brown says:

      I think the Westminster Government have had a problem, if they admit there is a good chance of failure of the BT campaign with a YES vote they will face a meltdown with the Markets and their Finances and credit rating, so they are trying to say through the media that they are in control whilst like the proverbial swan looks serene whilst treading water like mad.

    43. Helena Brown says:

      Training Day and Caz-m, I agree with you both, we really need people who have some concern for their country and the people in it. I think it was Macart on WGD who said he wants politician’s who put the people first and the Party last.
      Could these muppets get any worse?

    44. neil m says:

      id love to see what the media would say in the event of a yes vote as each of the scare stories are put to bed via the negotiations

    45. David S says:

      I fancy engaging in a bit of wild speculation with absolutely no hard evidence to back it up.

      Mr Carney has had several opportunities to explicitly rule out a currency union, he had another one Yesterday. He did not do so, instead repeating his line that the BoE would implement whatever political decision was made. He did that even after Osborne et al ‘unequivocally’ ruled out a currency union. If they are to be believed then the political decision has been made so there is nothing to stop Mr Carney expanding upon that. Interestingly, when asked about contingency planning he said that it was never appropriate to discuss contingencies. It is hard to imagine that he could have made this comment completely unknowingly in the context of Better Together’s repeated demands for Plan B (or a contingency if you will). What if (and here we get very speculative)…

      In considering his responsibilities to maintain economic stability Mr Carney supports a currency union in the event of a Yes vote. He views other options as sub-optimal and potentially destabilising to the economy, both of the UK prior to independence and/or the rUK after. The explicit identification of a ‘Plan B’ by Salmond, particularly if it is seized upon by BT as an admission of there being no chance of a currency union, could spook the markets given the potential impacts (i.e. loss of GDP, debt to GDP ratio, balance of payments, exports etc). Carney could see this as a danger. We all know Salmond has been resistant to explicitly naming ‘Plan B’, it seems obvious that he has been advised to do so. Quite a bit has been written about politics of this which would suggest his political advisors have advised him not to do so. However, we know that Carney and Salmond have met several times and held discussions. Is it completely impossible that Carney has advised Salmond not to reveal ‘Plan B’ and did his comment yesterday allude to this? It would not be the first time that a governor of the BoE has (supposedly) given Salmond advice.

      http://www.heraldsco…-sco.1390923672

    46. caz-m says:

      Training Day

      They party leaders have used the whole FMQ to talk about currency, avoiding talk of any other subject.

      I hope Alex Salmond tells BBC Scotland that the up and coming debate with Alistair Darling has to include subjects other than the currency union.

      Jackie Baillie (Labour) defending the rise in foodbanks.

      Speechless.

    47. Macart says:

      @Helena Brown

      “I think it was Macart on WGD”

      Guilty as charged. 🙂

      In my Scotland the people are sovereign

      In my Scotland service to the people comes before personal or party ambition for elected representatives

    48. Helena Brown says:

      @Macart, I was pretty sure it was you and one of the best reasons in a whole lot of reason for voting YES I have heard. If you watch FMQ’s you have to agree with it. A bunch of absolute muppets in Lamont, Davidson, and not forgetting Rennie, though I would like to.

    49. heedtracker says:

      @ Kenny, thats a tad weak ken, after all this is the most important referendum in the history of the universe, ever, and its all about money. You say UK.gov is all about the contigency plans n shit but check out what happened prior to, during and after the Banks went tits up and Crash and the Flipper had ample warning but did nothing whatsoever

      Going

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalisation_of_Northern_Rock

      On 14 September 2007, the Bank sought and received a liquidity support facility from the Bank of England,[1] following problems in the credit markets, during the current financial crisis.[2][3]

      RBS, going

      http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/dec/12/rbs-collapse-timeline

      May 2007: led by RBS, a consortium including Santander and Fortis Bank, lays out plans to outgun Barclays with an offer – made up of 79% cash – worth €71.1bn euros (£48.2bn) for ABN Amro.

      All UK.gov was watch.

    50. Jean says:

      Please could someone advise re the deposits in the bank of england to cover Scottish notes in circulation.
      My understanding is that there is around £4 billion deposited. Surely if this is removed back to Scotland there would be more than enough to cover deposits and start up our own central bank. or is it not as simple as that?

    51. Col says:

      JWil, Jackie wont be grilling AD tonight as they have Sallie Magnisun tonight I think they said. Good way to explain him getting an easy sneer free ride as the two interviewers have “different approaches” and styles. D
      Deliberate tactic maybe, will have to watch and see.
      Last night I just thought that Jackie was right up her own unionist arse with her sneering, rolling of the eyes and plainly false assertions (lies). Their behavior is of course due to the fact they are untouchable. For the moment at least anyway, post a YES vote there has to be a major clear out of of all the shite no longer needed.
      If there is a no vote the likes of Jackie Bird will no doubt be rewarded by the BBC and head south to a more lucrative position. It`s how the British state operates. Sell out Scotland and reap your rewards for doing so.

    52. EdinScot says:

      The biggest fraud in the msm right now is the sun rag. Hiding behind an allusion/delusion (take your pick) of neutrality they have been punching hard on behalf of their beloved union against a yes vote. This paper is British right down to its bootstraps. How they wish that we just zipped it and voted for the English Tory party like good little subserviant children. Theirein lies their dilemna.

      Their Scottish regional title havent been able to take a political stance since 2011 (very unlike them!)as they knew to support the Tories could kill them off too. So theyve concocted this neutrality bollocks to allow them free reign to try causing massive collaterel damage to the independence cause. British unionism at its cunning worst. Trouble for them is, big numbers of the Scottish electorate are cottoning on and seeing right through them.

      Beware of the enemy within Scotland. Just ask Liverpool re the Sun and murdoch. They illustrate perfectly how one can live quite easily without this rag of a title and its organisation. Re the currency, if the Unionist arent careful with all this no CU bluff, by the end up the Scottish electorate might just tell them to stick the pound where the sun dont shine. I wonder if the master tactician Mr Salmond knew this all along. Us Celts hate being told what to do. Its in our genes.

    53. gillie says:

      Sir Donald Mackay, former economic adviser to the UK government, on GMS this morning, “I would prefer a formal currency union because I think that would be in the interests of all of the UK, not simply Scotland. If you couldn’t do that, you’d follow the Irish model, that is, you’d simply shadow the pound. You would keep parity – you would use sterling. Sterling is an internationally traded currency. There’s nothing to stop you using it if you want to.”

    54. Training Day says:

      @Helena

      FMQs is routinely marred by the lamebrained contributions of the Unionist parties, but today marked a new nadir. The three Unionist party leaders ineptly asking the same ponderous question over and over is standard, but the sheer effrontery of Jackie Ballie attempting to normalise the unthinkable in the form of food banks was an utter disgrace. This, allied to the usual witless abuse about Salmond being ‘dishonest’ and Nicola Sturgeon ‘ambitious’ is where elcted Unionism stands in this country.

      The spectacle is shaming and embarrassing; these Unionist politicians are charlatans and fools funded by the Scottish taxpayer to denigrate the abilities of Scotland; they must, must, must go on September 18th.

    55. HandandShrimp says:

      FMQ is supposed to be about government issues of the day and the opposition (with perhaps the exception of Ruthie) have used it week after week to simply represent Better Together. Lamont has been a mouthpiece for Blair McDougall not the opposition leader of a Parliament.

      It has made the SNP term in Government something of an easy ride.

    56. big jock says:

      Well Sarah Smith’s line on 2014 refering to Carney was: “This is really devastating for yes” How on earth and on what stratosphere could the remarks be considered anything but positive for Yes. Once more she has twisted celebratory news for yes into doomsday. I think the important word in one of Carney’s statements was :”independent”. In other words the BOE will act in the best interests of the bank and economy and not the twisted world of unionist politicians. Their argument is crumbling.

    57. Mealer says:

      Off topic,but 4 former presidents of National Farmers Union Scotland have publicly declared for YES.Aa massive boost to our campaign in rural areas.The landed gentry might be backing the union,but working farmers are coming round to YES

    58. caz-m says:

      BBC Scotland stopped the coverage from Holyrood just when Jackie Baillie was about to stand up and tell the world that foodbanks are normal because Ireland has loads of them.

      BBC Scotland didn’t want the viewers witnessing that, so they cut away from FMQs early. You had to switch to BBC Parliament to catch Jackie Baillie.

      If you still support the present Scottish Labour Party, please feel free to come on here and tell us why.

    59. Hewitt83 says:

      O/T

      I see the Polling cards are getting sent out this week.

      Shit just got real! 😮

    60. Tam Jardine says:

      I glanced at the Scotsman’s headline and first few paragraphs… uncertainty, run on the banks, emergency and so on. A project Fear random computer program could have put it all together.

      As I was reading it, I thought ‘Scott McNab surely lives here, works here, has a pension here and dough in the bank here. So what kind of a fudd talks up a run on the bank in his own country?’

      High risk strategy. Fortunately you look through the froth and see a governor of the bank of the UK (as it should surely be called) who will get on with business come what may, and do all he can to avoid confrontation and instability. I have been impressed with him throughout the campaign and I’m glad he is the man in that position (from my outsider layman viewpoint)

    61. gillie says:

      A wee poll;

      Which of the options would you choose for an independent Scotland.

      1. Currency union with rUK and a share of UK debt

      2. Scottish £ tied to Sterling and no debt.

      How would Mark Carney responds to those two options because he is tasked to maintain financial stability? I think option 2 would give the BoE governor the skitters.

    62. TD says:

      Jean
      Re the £4 billion deposited by Scottish Banks with the Bank of England. My understanding is that the £4 billion belongs to the banks that issue banknotes i.e. BOS, RBS and the Clydesdale. It is not public money so I don’t think we can count it as an asset of a future Scottish State, nor do I think that it could be used to fund a Scottish Central Bank.

      It’s not my area of expertise though so if there are any bankers out there who know how this works, I stand to be corrected.

    63. sydthesnake says:

      Gillie
      Option 1

      for now

      Option 2

      very soon, if BT don’t get a grip, why has no reporter/newspaper asked for BT’s plan B in the event of a YES, surely this question works both ways.

    64. sydthesnake says:

      Jackie Baillie PLEASE BE INFORMED FOODBANKS ARE NOT THE NORM
      these are a sign that UK government has FAILED us
      time to jettison them, only way to achieve this vote YES

    65. Macart says:

      Couldn’t agree more guys. FMQs has become a party political broadcast writ large. Its ceased to be about the policy issues concerning the governance of the day and all about personal assault and opposition for oppositions sake.

      The opposition parties have gone beyond dire, bypassed ethical and crashed right into down right dangerous. They’ve lost their way in their race to sit in a big chair they’ve either forgotten their purpose or simply don’t give a shit. Its long past time they were held directly accountable for their actions and general conduct.

      Popular sovereignty, a body politic directly accountable to the electorate and a written constitution. We get one chance as a populace and its been handed to us on a silver plate.

    66. Sinky says:

      TD

      The Scottish Central Bank or its equivalent Currency Board would be entitled to the £4 billion if there is no currency union and Scottish government would “encourage” the Banks to comply in exchange for being the lender of last resort.

      On FMQs Yes for second week running the London centric BBC has truncated FMQs (to publicise other BBC programmes) but would never dare do that to David Cameron or any Labour Prime Minister.

    67. caz-m says:

      Jackie Burd quote from last night,

      “that’s not Independence”

      is turning out to be a bit of a classic, 7.29 mins in,

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04d4fcy/reporting-scotland-13082014

      Can anyone in the Wings technical department make that quote into a short YouTube loop.

      And why does Jackie think that having a currency union would mean that you are not Independent.

      The majority of countries across the world are in some kind of currency union.

    68. Cumoangerraff says:

      Economist Ewen Stewart, from Scottish Research Society, on GMS this morning slagging proposed use of Sterling. “if you’re going to separate, you can’t expect to keep the good bits”. Stu warned us that BBC would be quoting the Scottish Research Society, implying it is impartial and respectable, rather than another unionist front. Didn’t take them long!

    69. TheItalianJob says:

      @TD

      Spot on with your comment. Totally agree with you ref Danny Alexander et al. All the same protecting their own and therir party interests at the expense of the country of Scotland.

    70. Quentin Quale says:

      John Swinney ripping into Annabell Goldie – Carney did not say ’emergency’. Phew.

    71. Kenny says:

      heedtracker – I’m not saying they did a good job. I’m just saying that as a rule, governments have contingency plans for all eventualities. Clearly if they don’t, they’re being negligent. Therefore the UK government was probably negligent over the banking crisis and if they’re being honest about the referendum, they’re EXTREMELY negligent in not making any contingency plans for that.

    72. seanair says:

      Currency Union the main moan from the usual suspects at FMQ today, but I could only watch it by pressing the mute button when they stood up and pushing it again when AS stood up to put them in their place. Very soothing!
      Full explanation again from AS about the continuation of pensions (public and private) with a great dig at the Daily Mail for assuring an ex-employee in a letter that his pension was safe, but not telling this to their readers.
      Ridiculous situation at the end of FMQ when a question from Jackie Baillie was announced, but was cut off to go back to Toodle Noo for his take on the proceedings. Then a plug for a programme tonight. That’s what BBC Scotland thinks of our Parliament.

    73. Lesley-Anne says:

      I really wish they would stop calling it FMQ’s and call it what it REALLY is “The Opposition Party Leaders Put Down Show!” 😛

    74. gillie says:

      Jackie Baillie is a one person FoodBank.

    75. wee_monsieur says:

      ‘It’s never a good idea to talk about contingency plans in public’ said the Governor of the Bank of England

      Why doesn’t the Yes campaign simply adopt this fine quote?

    76. Alan says:

      What frightens me most is not anything said by Project Fear, but that Project Fear (and that includes almost all the media) is “Manufacturing Consent”, i.e. spreading misinformation to get the result it wants.

      This is why the Wee Blue Book is crucial.

    77. gillie says:

      Jackie Baillie promises Scotland will have more Foodbanks if Scotland rejects independence. Now there is an incentive.

    78. Midgehunter says:

      Caz-M says:

      BBC Scotland stopped the coverage from Holyrood just when Jackie Baillie was about to stand up and tell the world that foodbanks are normal because Ireland has loads of them.

      BBC Scotland didn’t want the viewers witnessing that, so they cut away from FMQs early. You had to switch to BBC Parliament to catch Jackie Baillie.

      I’ve said this here more than once:

      You do not need to watch the FMQ-QT on the BBC as you will only get screwed by the b******ds.

      Your very own Scottish Parliament TV provides you with live coverage direct from the debating chamber.

      http://www.scottishparliament.tv/

      You can watch every single second without any cut-offs or other tricks. If you can’t watch it live you can watch the catch up video on the same site – again every second of the debate is there.

      It’s your Parliament TV – USE IT…!!

    79. Where do these lying rats run – After Sept 18th.

      Will Lamontable, wee roofie and wee willie suddenly have an overnight “Damascene Conversion” to become Scottish politicians that actually look after the best interests of their electorate.? Don`t haud yer breath.

      All these chocolate fireguard journalists in MSM will also find – Truth was not Lost.
      They had hidden Truth – for a wee while.

      On Sept 20th Salmond should Call an early Election.
      The new Constitution has not been written. Old Rules gone.!

      And punters get a chance to boot-out Jaggy Ba and all their fibdem and tory friends from Holyrood. Immediately.!
      Is there ONE Socialist left in Scotland – True to socialism

      My “YES” will create immediate repercussions in Govt in an Independent Scotland.
      We will remember our friends.

    80. Lesley-Anne says:

      Apologies for going O/T so early but really folks I think you’ll be amazed. Fife Free Press FRONT page.

      http://tinyurl.com/ort4l4t

      Now remind me again when was the last time the NO camp filled a hall like this to capacity and beyond! 😛

    81. Wings Over Reality says:

      Hi Kenny and Deomcracy Reborn,

      I’m sorry but you are both wrong, as is Rev Stu.

      http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/contingency.asp

      http://smallbusiness.chron.com/business-contingency-plan-1081.html

      and, of course Wikipedia, Rev Stu’s main source for The Blue Book:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingency_plan

    82. north chiel says:

      Agree with “Edin scot ” as regards the Sun newspaper. Up until the referendum date was announced, it appeared editorially to
      side slightly with the SNP here in Scotland.However, recently
      the editorial seems to have reverted back to its unionist London Westminster paymasters. Consequently i have recently decided not to purchase this daily. I now only buy the Sunday Herald, having done so for some years now and having realised that their main correspondents were moving to “yes” month by month and none more so than Iain Macwhirter, possibly one of the very few world class genuine investigative reporters remaining in Scotland. I “TAKE MY HAT OFF TO IAIN “

    83. desimond says:

      Dear Unionist Party leaders in Scotland
      may i ask you

      Ruthie – whats your contingency plan for a YES vote? Pretend it never happened whilst removing the word ‘unionist’ from your party name?

      Johann – whats your contingency plan for a YES vote?
      Petend it never happened while asking someone how you go about registering Scottish Labour as an actual real political party and not just a cutely named regional office.

      Willie – whats your contingency plan for a YES vote?
      Hope Danny Alexander can get you a job beside him in the Forestry PR business?

    84. heedtracker says:

      @ Kenny, we are being told to vote NO for no change by Darling and Brown etc who either didn’t know how bad it was in RBS or HBOS 2008 which is just not credible, or they were fully aware of impending crash and still they did nothing.

      Northern Rock went bust but nothing happened in the Darling Trasury. Or things did happen but they decided to gamble with the whole exonmy and do nothing but wait and watch. No contingency plan, just same old UKOK slow eyed, complacent roughers and I’m alright jacks. Or, maybe Carney’s predecessor Mervin King never even spoke to the Chancellor of the UKOK exchequer or unelected Prime Minster Brown who stood up and said “I saved the world”

      And there’s nothing to prevent the next crash, except voting Yes.

    85. Port Jim says:

      Uncertainty is scary. The Yes campaign cannot state with certainty what will happen on a range of issues in the event of a “yes”.

      I don’t understand why people cannot see (and the Yes campaign doesn’t point out) that this is a direct result of Westminster refusing point-blank to enter into any sort of pre-negotiations. Virtually the first thing David Cameron said, after agreeing to the referendum, was that the government didn’t deal in hypotheticals and would only discuss details of Independence if and when there was a Yes vote.

      I understand why this is No’s position – they want voters to see Independance as a pig in a poke – but voters shouldn’t blame the Yes camp for the lack of agreement on the post-Yes position.

    86. tartanfever says:

      gillie says:

      A wee poll;

      Which of the options would you choose for an independent Scotland.

      1. Currency union with rUK and a share of UK debt

      2. Scottish £ tied to Sterling and no debt.

      Option 2 for me. I personally prefer to start with a completely clean slate and do all the negotiating at once. I understand the desire for a ‘one step at a time’ approach to separating the economies but I think for our confidence and self-esteem we should split now.

      Having already had 3 years of the UK establishment (politicians and the media) telling me I’m pitiful, I’m lazy and so on it’s time to five them a resounding ‘f*** off !’

      I don’t want to have to put up with their negativity any longer than necessary, and a currency union will still see them preaching negatively to us every day.

      Not exactly an economic argument I know.

    87. gerry parker says:

      @ Training day.
      Tricia Marwick has been doing a good job keeping a semblance of order about proceedings lately. I think the Unionist crowd are intentionally debasing the Parliament with their constant harping. I hope the electorate exact their revenge when these people put themselves up for election again.

    88. heedtracker says:

      @ Wings Over Reality says:
      Hi Wingsoverrewlity, your links are super and summaries Westminster really well. For any more?

      Mismanagement

      Fraud, theft, operational errors, mismanagement and personal scandal are all crises that require special public relations strategies as well as various types of insurance. The handling of these crises involves careful attention to legal considerations and liability to the shareholders and if not handled immediately with efficiency and confidence, they can ruin the company’s professional image and ability to do business. For this reason, companies create a system of checks and balances to prevent such problems in addition to creating detailed action plans to deal with these contingencies.

    89. Wings Over Reality says:

      Hi heedtracker,

      Your attempt at diversion suggests you agree with me.

      Thanks.

    90. Wee Alec says:

      Any organisation worth it’s salt has a risk register. That is good practice, good contingency planning.

      Emergency planning is a different beast altogether, for example, an evacuation in the event of a nuclear disaster. Say a warhead leaking.

      I’ve always stood up for the 4th estate in the belief of them being open an honest – never again!

    91. galamcennalath says:

      Do anyone else think there might be a connection between Cameron’s failure to regulate the press effectively, and the way they promote the Unionist line so relentlessly? Payback for services rendered?

    92. nixon says:

      Probably worth pointing out for any semantic twerps who get caught up on “contingency” being an inherently negative word in the sense of worse-case scenarios etc. (as I see, scanning through, we’ve had one already upthread): the contingency refers to the various unspecified “financial stability issues” earlier in Carney’s sentence (which he says could be a consequence of uncertainty), not the idea of independence itself or any suggestion that independence would cause said issues.

    93. McTim says:

      We all know they’re bluffing at the moment but I genuinely don’t think using Sterling officially and especially unofficially is not in our best interests. I’m passionate about Independence and am disappointed that the SNP is only offering a timid, lite version of Independence right now. A currency union will mean the Bank of England sets the interest rates and although it’s meant to act independently, I’m against the idea in principle. We’d also have spending caps imposed on us. In other words, using Sterling either way would mean we wouldn’t be independent in the truest, fullest meaning of the word, and I think Wee Eck should be bold and commit officially to either bringing the Scots Merk back or introducing a new currency prior to the referendum. The advantages? We’d control our interest rates and our spending entirely on our own, and we could still peg the Merk/new currency 1:1 to Sterling and hopefully keep transaction costs for rUK businesses reasonably low. I also think defaulting on the debt may not inspire great confidence in us from the international markets. Although I feel that rUK doesn’t deserve a single penny more from us, I think realistically we should take the high ground and pay off our share of the debt. Here is how I’d do it: drop Sterling and take new currency but still negotiate asset and debt shares with rUK by using our share of the assets to offset against the share of the debt and add the total sum of debt interest payments we’ve already made over the last few decades. Depending on how much we’ve paid each year in interest, that would leave us with either very little debt interest to pay off or rUk may even have to pay us some back because we may well have paid above the amount we were due. In any case, I hope Eck is playing a game of double bluff and has been wanting a new currency along. If that’s what he wants then I don’t think he needs a pretext of “we are forced into a new currency”.

    94. HandandShrimp says:

      Wings over Reality

      You should not confuse a Contingency Plan with a Contingent Liability.

      One can have contingency plans in the event of both a crisis and good events, for example in the case of the latter, demand is higher than expected so there are contingency plans to move production from one site to another.

      A contingency plan is simply thinking ahead and to have alternatives at hand. I might take the bus but if the bus is not there my contingency is to take the train. Taking the train is not a disaster but I may have to alert others and to change some minor details of my day.

      A contingent liability already assumes a bad event has taken place and a as yet unknown amount is owed.

    95. Robert Kerr says:

      I no longer watch the FMQ stuff.

      My thoughts are that the anti-SNP leaders have been deliberately selected and encouraged in their antics to debase our “wee pretendy parliament”.

      I personally consider this to be insulting and disgraceful.

    96. Free Scotland says:

      Project Fear, phase 950-something. Does anyone remember the BBC documentary called “The Power of Nightmares” and subtitled “The Rise of the Politics of Fear?” I wonder how keen BBC would be to rebroadcast the series in the next couple of weeks.

      archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-Episode1BabyItsColdOutside

    97. Sinky says:

      McTim

      Alex Salmond has always been a gradualist and that is what has brought us the referendum as many people are wary / lack self confidence of any changes in their lives.

      There is a difference between BofE being in charge of Monetary Policy and Scottish (or even UK) government in charge of fiscal policy which involves tax and spend.

      France Netherlands Belgium are part of a currency union and no sensible person would suggest that they are not independent.

      No democratic country is economically independent as they are subject to the strictures of the IMF / World Bank etc.

    98. HandandShrimp says:

      Robert

      To be fair to Rennie I think he is operating at the maximum of his capabilities.

    99. Wings Over Reality says:

      Hi HandandShrimp,

      Do you think really think the consequences of sterlingisation as opposed to a currency union is comparable to taking a train instead of a bus?

      Or that the contingency plans have been drawn up by the BoE because they think sterlingisation is going to be a good thing for either economy?

      Thanks.

    100. Breeks says:

      Has there ever, throughout history, been a parralel to our circumstances, where a popular grassroots campaign of the people is contested by the media from an external powerbase? It is almost like Scotland is an occupied country, not occupied by troops but hostile journalists.

    101. heedtracker says:

      @ Wings Over Reality, just read the WBB and it might inform and assist you with your progress to Yes.

      Anyway on topic of oddballs and weirdos, the king of Angus is back in business after the, ahem, unpleasantness over his last candidate selection for lucky old Angus and her tweets about nazi Scottish children, or was Scottish nazi children?

      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/id/10680150/public

      It’s nice to see Mr Ruddy back in action, upbeat, positive, Labour in Scotlandshire.

      John Ruddy commented on Scottish independence: Better Together inundated with cash after debate.13 Aug 2014 11:37am 8
      No they dont. I havnt come across a single volunteer who has been paid. And while there are visitors from down south showing solidarity with us, the vast majority of volunteers are local.

      So much for you inclusive and positive campaign if you have to resort to such lies.

    102. gerry parker says:

      @Breeks.
      Vietnam?

    103. EdinScot says:

      Correct north chiel re the Sun dithering over its political stance. Boy, it must still be choking them to be put in such a position! Andrew Nicol their lead churnalist was flip flopping from day to day from the yes to the no to ‘appear’ to cement into the readerships minds that they were neutral. Now five weeks out theyre trying to knock Salmond and the SNP out and are coming over more rabid than even the most fervent of Unionist dribbling suspects like Torchuil and Gardham. Thing is, i like many others saw this coming. Once you see through their agenda its really quite easy to second guess their next moves then stand back in awe as they fall right into your trap and prove us right.

      The Unionist msm used to say that Salmond and particularly the SNP was a one-trick pony re independence. But with one one hand tied behind their back the Scottish Government blew that assertion out the water with their competent administration and delivering on their pledges such as free prescriptions, freezing council tax bills, police numbers, ensuring our nhs is now safe in public hands etc. Thats why theyve been given two terms consecutively in Government, the second being able to form a majority. Read it and weep Cameron!

      So it got me to thinking that it is the Unionist msm and British state that are actually the ‘one-trick ponies’ with the continuation of the scare tactics aka project fear over and over and over to the extent that we’re bored stiff with it and wish the vote was now so we can get shot of them. They just keep trotting out the same lies and misinformation and twisting of the facts. Its all they have. Completely stuck in first gear. They wont offer us something now, its all about dangling the carrots but they could offer, Westminster could put something in the statute and through both houses today but they dont because they dont want to. But they do when its in ‘their’ interests, no problemo!

      The scares and their wails will continue right up to when voting closes and only until when we vote YES. Their tantrums and disgraceful derelection of duty (jackie bird last night with her fake acting skills) are only for their own selfish ends. Thats why theyre behaving so badly because its all about their own personal gravy train and nothing to do with the collective good of our country and general well being of all the people.

      A question for everybody. Do they look like and behave like people who have 60% of no voters in the bag? As from where im sitting it sure as heck doesnt! I tell myself if that was to be beleived theyd be crowing from the rooftops and strutting about amongst the poplulace in our streets shoving microphones under the publics noses in shopping areas not LIVE and not sitting scared and hiding in their ivory towers ak pacific quay pumping out their rotten propaganda unchallenged. Mr Darling aided by the Ebc Scotland branch is on tonight and will be giving carte blanche to debunk, at will, what was said by Salmond last night.

      Theyre acting the way they do as theyre terrified their time is up in a matter of a few weeks and because they know theyre losing hence them upping the rhetoric to exteme levels. It begs the question when you see the unfairness of how theyve conducted this campaign against the people, why on earth would we beleive their dodgy paid for polls?!

    104. Wings Over Reality says:

      Hi heedtracker,

      Yet again your evasiveness makes me think you know I am correct about contingency plans.

      Thanks.

    105. norrie says:

      O/T
      Promo t shirts for the wee blue book the magic square will work to link phones to wings article so if you don’t mind your chest being oggled / photographed you can be a walking ad for the WBB.

      http://goo.gl/v1Q35f

    106. Johnney come lately says:

      We’ve all been here before and there seems to be more of an air of desperation than just a simple a ramping up of the propaganda.
      BOE have only guaranteed The UK’s debt up until the referendum. I’ll keep my money where I put it first time.
      The closer we get to the referendum, the more the markets will get the jitters, as they don’t like uncertainty. Saying a vague “we have contingency plans” simply won’t cut it.
      My money is on Westminster having to make a statement of intent before the referendum. Westminster has always expected that the gamble would pay off and the SG would buckle and reveal a plan B so their attack dogs in the MSM could tear it to pieces.
      This has not happened, the jitters are increasing and Westminster is running out of time and they know it. Hence the desperation and focus again on the fabled plan B.

    107. Black Douglas says:

      @wings over reality

      Shift change at GCHQ no one on here thinks you are correct only that you are a 👿 although a polite one 🙂

    108. heedtracker says:

      @ Wings Over Reality, ooh your so clever! I actually haven’t a clue what you’re up too. You read WBB though and thats all good.

    109. Training Day says:

      re the Sun

      Andrew Nicol gave the game away a few months back in a tweet to the Rev which basically said that he’d adopt the stance of whoever pays his wages. No great surprise there, but note also that certain of their journalists/columnists (and don’t you forget it!) have felt compelled to randomly emerge as No voters on Twitter to make sure their bosses know they won’t dream of remotely going off message. So the stance of the Sun has been clear to its employees from the start.

      And anyone watching Sky News knows in how much sneering contempt the notion of Scottish independence is held by the Murdoch Group and its metropolitan bubble hangers-on.

    110. Wings Over Reality says:

      Hi Black Douglas,

      Clearly not. But if you have to redefine words to suit your argument then you have already lost it. It doesn’t take James Bond to point that out, or to realise that groupthink is not particularly healthy.

      Think I’ll call this a day.

      Thanks.

    111. Mosstrooper says:

      What is wrong with you guys? Wings over Reality is a TROLL. Don’t pop under the bridge to chat.

    112. Black Douglas says:

      @wings over reality

      😀 haha group think like BT, says it all really!

    113. Steve Bowers 74% win says:

      gillie says:
      14 August, 2014 at 12:46 pm
      A wee poll;

      Which of the options would you choose for an independent Scotland.

      1. Currency union with rUK and a share of UK debt

      2. Scottish £ tied to Sterling and no debt.

      I’m now of a mind to go for the fuck em option, however I don’t think it’s fair on the ordinary working people of England, YES has a large English support up here and they all have their worries about family “back home ”

      However, if it is option fuck em then perhaps it might help the ordinary people of England get their shit together ( electorally )

    114. No no no...Yes says:

      Gillie @ 12:37pm
      The audio of Sir Donald Mackay’s interview is on the Business for Scotland website:

      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/leading-economist-sir-donald-mackay-backs-independence-scotland-will-be-better-off/

      Jim Naughtie knows all the BT lines and arguments and fails miserably to come across as impartial.

      A great interview and addition to the YES side and I note the FM referred to it when he put down Iain Gray (again) at FMQ’s.

    115. FlimFlamMan says:

      @ Slinky

      France Netherlands Belgium are part of a currency union and no sensible person would suggest that they are not independent.

      Except, their spending levels are not determined by their governments or their people, but by the European Central Bank, and if they spend ‘too much’* they get fined. Austerity is imposed by the troika of the ECB, the Commission, and the IMF, leaving millions of people destitute. Is that independence? I’m with McTim.

      * Too much being defined by the arbitrary limits of the Stability and Growth Pact, not the actual needs of the people. Hence the entrenched unemployment, and eurozone countries slipping back into recession, again.

    116. Papadox says:

      No wonder Jaba, Jola, Gray are kept out of the publics sight, they are a total disgrace to socialism and scotland, they are an embarrassment. Two teachers, thank god they don’t have access to the children at school anymore as teachers.

      Makes me wonder what standards you need to become a teacher nowadays?

      As for the rest of the SLAB/BT elite, they are better hidden out the road, they have sold their sole and must stay out of the daylight. Heaven forbid but if no should succeed these morons will be out banging the big drum with their establishment, HMG, EBC, STV, MSM MASTERS &COHORTS, rushing for their bayonets and the trough. They are cowards and spineless creatures, scum.

    117. YESGUY says:

      Regarding Jackie Ballie.

      Who voted her in office ? She is utterly useless and spouts nothing but drivel day in day out.

      One thing for sure , she’s never been in a food bank. 3 days messages would be gone in a few minutes. The disgusting liar is worse than JOLA or Curren .

      What is wrong with women in the Labour party. They take the bicuit when it comes to propaganda . No principles , no ideas just scares and smears.

      If we lose this vote i give up. I know many of you say we can do this but after the last few years austerity, expense scandals , peodo and sexual abuse, to name but a few, we are told by party members that we are “better together”. Utter bollocks.

      What reason would anyone trust these corrupt and abusive people , to govern them. The English must think we are a nation of morons.

      Are we ??

    118. James Kay says:

      @Wings over Reality

      Think I’ll call this a day.

      Good bye. You won’t be missed. ????

    119. Proud Cybernat says:

      Does anyone know the answer to this question:

      If there is no currency union after Indy and Scotland continues using the £ anyway (Sterlingisation), can we spend Scottish Sterling notes in rUK? (Okay–yes I know they have problems doing that within a CU but what would the legal position be)?

      Ta.

    120. Brotyboy says:

      @Mosstrooper

      Yeah, and particularly ineffective when he claims a victory.

    121. Helena Brown says:

      Papadox, Labour seem to exist with teachers, their previous First Ministers were also both teachers. I have always congratulated that party for being astute enough to get them out of the teaching profession,there are more than enough crap teachers without them.

    122. Clootie says:

      caz-m says:
      14 August, 2014 at 12:56 pm
      Jackie Burd quote from last night,

      “that’s not Independence”

      A major shock to Germany / France / Spain / Italy etc
      You are in a currency union therefore you are no longer nations of the Earth.

      Jackie cannot be as thick as she appears surely? Perhaps it is the Labour mist which descends over her as she starts to speak.

    123. CameronB Brodie says:

      Coordinated press attacks supporting HMGBetterTogetherNo Thanks? Let’s junp in the WOS time machine and take a look at our press.

      Britain’s security services and journalists: the secret story

      David Leigh
      British Journalism Review
      Vol. 11, No. 2, 2000, pages 21-26

      British journalists – and British journals – are being manipulated by the secret intelligence agencies, and I think we ought to try and put a stop to it.

      http://www.bjr.org.uk/data/2000/no2_leigh

    124. desimond says:

      In a poll of countries that participated in the recent Commonwealth games, a representative of each independent country was asked by Jackie Bird:

      “Did you all worry yourselves sick about your coins before going it alone?”

      The response was “Are You F*cking Kidding hen?” in various languages

    125. David Stevenson says:

      papadox:

      21st Century Labour has nothing to do with socialism. It was previously a social democratic party that had socialists in it. Now it is a careerist haven with no principles at all.

      YESGUY:

      You are sounding a bit misogynistic there. There are plenty men in the Labour Party as equally dire as the women you mention. Too many to list in fact. Never mind the sex of the people we disagree with. It is the negative substance of their views we should concentrate on.

    126. tartanfever says:

      freeScotland says at 1.51:

      ‘Does anyone remember the BBC documentary called “The Power of Nightmares” and subtitled “The Rise of the Politics of Fear?” I wonder how keen BBC would be to rebroadcast the series in the next couple of weeks.’

      I’ve mentioned that series many a time in the past, and the Rev is a big fan of Adam Curtis films. For those that haven’t watched the 3 x 1 hour films, they are free to watch here:

      http://thoughtmaybe.com/the-power-of-nightmares/

      You don’t have to sign up to anything, your computer will not be hacked by visiting this website so there’s no excuse ! If you think ‘Diomhair’ was a revelation, you’ll be staggered by these films.

      I could not think of a better time to watch these films.

    127. muttley79 says:

      @Helena Brown

      Donald Dewar was a lawyer to be fair.

    128. CameronB Brodie says:

      tartanfever
      Adam Curtis makes stylish films which are felt suitable to broadcast by the BBC. IMO, his films are partial hing outs, and there is nothing worse than a half truth.

    129. Helena Brown says:

      Training Day, I gathered that, only saw some of it courtesy of Husband, I stopped watching a long long time ago, as I have long since considered they do not get enough of a doing from Alex. I would have to ask if the Presiding Officer gets a look at the questions and has the right to say that they all should get a grip.
      I consider their actions to be very below par but then with Labour, Donald Dewar was more than responsible in his choice of MSP’s considering the barely average to be suitable. I have the delightfully stupid Cara Hilton as mine, I rest my case.

    130. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry to go on about Adam Curtis, but I think the best description of him that I’ve heard, is that he is an establishment contrarian.

    131. Clootie says:

      O/T

      Article on Bella by Pat Kane – loved this quote

      “I remember a fishwife in Aberdeen telling me why her lobsters needed no lid on the pan. ‘They’re all Scottish. One of them climbs near the top, the ithers’ll pull him right back in.’”

    132. Andy-B says:

      Torcuil Crichton, in the anti-independece Daily Record today twisting the governor of the BoE, Mark Carney’s words, to make it seem as though Carney,s contingency plan was, all about stopping a currency union.

      Crichton then goes on to scaremonger about the falling profits of oil, in the North sea, it seems no ones told him about the massive Clair Ridge oilfield that has over 640 million barrels of oil, which comes online in 2016.

    133. heedtracker says:

      @ Clootie, all the EU countries are in a currency union but they are in an EU political union too. The best examples are those EU member countries that do not use the euro but are EU members. Right now, its Holyrood, Westminster, Brussels and if its Yes, its Holyrood, BoE(fiscal), Brussels.

    134. Andy-B says:

      Well tonight its Alistair Darling’s turn to be grilled by Jackie Bird, on the BBC news at 6.30pm, though I doubt Jackie who’ll always be remembered for that garish dress she wore a few years back at Hogmanay, will give Alistair Darling a tough time of it. In fact I’m pretty sure old eyebrows Ally, will have the stage virtually to himself to bleat out, the benefits (there’s none) of the union.

    135. P.R.D. says:

      All that the ATMs spit out is Scottish twenty pound notes are they promissory notes that will not be broken in the event of a yes vote or are they contingently dumping worthless notes – is the BoE going to go renegade on those Scottish promissory notes?

    136. Clootie says:

      @headtracker

      I was trying to keep it simple.

      They are still countries and for example the could leave the political inion. They are nations.

    137. tartanfever says:

      Thanks Cameron,

      So your objection to his films are that they are broadcast by the BBC and his ideas about politics, the media and society don’t match yours.

      Much simpler to say that than call them half-truths as though you are the defining arbitrator of the term.

      Are they worth watching at a time like this ? Most likely Yes

      Will they give an interesting insight into the the manipulation of social thinking by politics ? Most definitely, whether you agree with him or not.

      Of course, the reverse of your argument is also true, the fact that he is a BBC stalwart and he’s an Oxford professor makes his anti-establishment films all the more effective. We know what to expect from say, John Pilger because he now works outside all established media, but Curtis is very much a part of the system.

    138. EdinScot says:

      Training day says,

      Andrew Nicol gave the game away a few months back in a tweet to the Rev which basically said that he’d adopt the stance of whoever pays his wages. No great surprise there, but note also that certain of their journalists/columnists (and don’t you forget it!) have felt compelled to randomly emerge as No voters on Twitter to make sure their bosses know they won’t dream of remotely going off message. So the stance of the Sun has been clear to its employees from the start.

      Yes, remember this well. But therein lies the rub… A lot of the general populace dont do twitter and so are blissfully unaware of the above and in so doing their readership of that particular rag takes their ‘neutrality’ stance at face value thus completing those journos and the Murdoch empires duplicity. Shameful stuff from the Britnats.

      Also know that the rags’ former sports correspondent turned ‘apparent’ political guru Bill Leckie was insisting he was an ‘undecided’ whilst writing his anti yes drivel in his column page. And so now appears that he is a ‘no’ after all. Loads of bollocks from the Sun. They need an eye kept on them as they cannot be trusted. Hopefully more of their readership will see right through them and see them for the frauds they are.

    139. X_Sticks says:

      Andy-B says:

      “tonight its Alistair Darling’s turn to be grilled by Jackie Bird”

      By all counts it’s not Jackie but Sally that will interview the wee Darling. Probably so we can’t make any comparisons in style, animosity etc. Aren’t they SOooo clever, eh?

      We’ll see how clever they are on the 19th!

    140. CameronB Brodie says:

      tartanfever
      No, my objection to his films is that he presents an incomplete and partial picture. Let’s not disrupt the thread, but are his films “anti-establishment”, as you appear to believe?

    141. David says:

      BLUDDY FOREIGNERS

      You drive a German, French, Italian, Japanese, Spanish maybe Swedish Car.

      You drink Russian vodka French, Spanish, Italian, South African wine, Indian Tea and Brazilian Coffee.

      You write in Latin and your numbers are Arabic most of your electrics including the Phone, Tablet or PC you are reading this on are Chinese.

      You go out for a meal its Indian or Chinese or perhaps a Turkish Kebab just before or after you have watched an American movie and scoffed an Italian ice cream, had some pop corn, or a hot dog or two.

      When your pipe bursts and brings down the ceiling 99 times out of 100 it will be a Polish plumber and plasterer that fixes it quickly to a very high standard.

      If you end up in hospital the Scottish Nurses and Doctors will be outnumbered by people from overseas.

      Foreigners we canny dae withoot them.

    142. gillie says:

      ‘When Ally met Sally’ is on Reporting Scotland tonight.

      Who will be faking it?

    143. Training Day says:

      @EdinScot

      Aye, it was Leckie to whom I was alluding in the original post – a diehard No masquerading (at least for a while) as an undecided, but clearly well aware of the stance on independence his employer would ultimately adopt. A parcel of rogues.

      @X_Sticks

      Remember they tried the ‘different interviewer’ trick in 2011? Salmond was interviewed by the ostensibly more robust Gary Robertson on GMS, while Iain Gray was interviewed by the ostensibly more emollient Hayley Millar the following day. It didn’t work then and it won’t now.

    144. Albert Herring says:

      Got a response from Electoral Commission. Rough translation follows.

      “Dear Albert Herring,

      Nothing to do with us, now please fuck off.”

      Response from me:

      “Dear Mr Webb

      My problem is that a campaign is being waged by the UK Government and Better Together, along with their allies in the print and broadcast media, which consists largely of misinformation, disinformation, deception and downright flat-out lies, the purpose of which is to mislead the electors of Scotland into voting No in the referendum.

      I regard these shameful tactics as nothing less than an attempt to steal our democracy, and in any case are a clear breach of Electoral Commission rules.

      I look to the Electoral Commission to protect the democratic process, but instead find it has “aided and abetted” this shameful behaviour by republishing Better Together’s deceptive statements in its own advice to electors.

      I am reporting to you this breach of your rules. Can I take it you have no intention of doing anything about it?

      Regards, etc”

    145. geeo says:

      Jeezo…looks like a mass troll day out on wings today!

      Did they bring a carer with them ?
      McTim, the use of the word ‘default’ in relation to debt refusal is a beginners mistake.

      On the AD love fest tonight, the big question will be, will Alistair get a ‘click’ with his awestruck interviewer ?

      The MSM idea of interviewing No supporters amounts to no more than a poor copy of speed dating.

      “Hi, my name is alistair, i like saying’look..”, blinking, lying and hate the SNP and all those ethnic scottish nazi’s”…

      (interviewer/date)

      “Thats amazing, i wish i was called Alistair, but everything else is good to go…, lets get a room/broom cupboard”…

    146. Fireproofjim says:

      PRD. The Scottish bank notes are all backed by funds deposited in the Bank of England. They will retain their value unless the B.o E steals the deposits.

    147. PeeGee says:

      I see our old friend hothersall is a Fabian. Lovely people. Does he support Eugenics, abortion of the handicapped and sterilising poor people? Or is it a completely different Fabian Society he supports?

    148. CameronB Brodie says:

      A tempting wee snippet of info there, but I shall resist. 🙂

    149. PeeGee says:

      And offly topical. There’s a bike race on tv going over Arctic Norway. Lovely scenery. When I was there in 1975 there were single track dirt gravel roads, rusty ferries and hardly any people.

      Now you see wide roads,new tunnels and bridges and expanding towns.
      Curse you North Sea Oil!!! Why must you enrich us? Why can’t we bring back Quisling and be better together? Something you’ll never see anywhere from any Norwegian.

    150. Andy-B says:

      @X_sticks.

      How sneaky of the BBC, though I still believe Alistair Darling will have an easy time of it. I mean surely the BBC won’t quiz their golden boy, Ally eyebrows will have a free hand to spout his unionist tripe.

      HM Government has taken out a full page ad (Again) in the Glasgow Evening Times urging Scots to say no, and stay with the union. I wonder who’s paying for these pricey ads Hmm!.

    151. EdinScot says:

      @ Training day

      I actually had a bit of email correspondence with the Suns Bill Leckie a wee while back. I suggested to him that he was being disingenius at best and urged him to come clean and to stop pretending to hide behind the guise of being an ‘undecided’ voter as i could spot his deceitful games a mile off and he was in fact a diehard no. He protested too much but his latest comical ali slaverings tends to now confirm what we always knew. It seems Murdoch is the piper and i claim my tenner.

    152. Tam Jardine says:

      geeo

      I hate the BBC and their bias as much as anyone but I think you are crossing the rubicon of good taste by putting this idea of Alistair ‘just call me’ Darling blinking seductively, growling flirtatious and barking at poor Sally in my innocent mind.

      The very idea of Darling biting his teeth together repeatedly during this ‘interview’ then clicking his fingers to a slow jazz riff of his own imagining is reprehensible.

      Both will comport themselves with decorum and professionalism during the interview as befits a BBC broadcaster and an honourable Member of Parliament. The very idea that Mr Darling would use a cheap line such as ‘you know we’re better together, baby, ooh yeah’ just lowers the debate and does you no favours at all sir!

    153. muttley79 says:

      Training Day

      It seems to be a tactic that the No campaign/MSM are increasingly using, whereby well known figures in Scotland are said to be undecided, but are really diehard No. Bill Leckie and Alex Massie have already been used for this purpose.

    154. Tom Platt says:

      This news confirms the responsible nature of the currency stance of the First Minister and the White Paper “Scotland’s Future”. It also underlines the risks that Osborne and the “No” campaign are taking by their absurd (economically speaking) and very risky political posturing. BoE contingency plans would be much less necessary if Westminster were to recognise the value of the Holyrood proposals to everyone post “Yes”.

    155. Famous15 says:

      The number of trolls appearing and many pretending they are with us BUT is a piece of flattery.

      That famous Scottish put down “I knew his faither” is not true for most of these barst……

    156. gerry parker says:

      I’m sure Sally will ask him.
      ” Name 2 powers that will be guaranteed if Scotland votes no?”

      Followed by.

      “Explain how this will be passed through the commons and the lords without amendment?”

      Followed by.
      “How long will this take?”

    157. Sinky says:

      I am sure the impartial BBC will remind Alistair Darling that he was in charge of supervision when the banks failed (and ignored fact that FSA overlooked the rules on capital by allowing Goodwin and RBS to dip below 4%, below the minimum regulatory requirement on capital, to do the ABN Amro deal for which he gave final approval)and his failure to act sooner after the collapse of Northern Rock let to the loss of up to one million jobs according to former B of E boss Sir Mervyn King on BBC on 2 May 2012.

      And that the UK economic policy is determined by the volatile London house prices.

    158. Cath says:

      Is it completely impossible that Carney has advised Salmond not to reveal ‘Plan B’ and did his comment yesterday allude to this?

      Possibly, especially given who is behind the fiscal commission and the recommendations for the CU. These are serious economists, who already predicted politics would be played, and Carney will know that better than anyone, as well as the consequences of no CU for the BoE, and for the UK as a whole.

      I also agree that there may well be an element of clever politics being played by the Yes campaign here, in allowing the Westminster parties to push people away from the idea of a CU. I would have happily accepted a CU when the white paper was published but now, thanks to Better Together, I no longer believe it’s the best option for Scotland and don’t care if it does have an adverse affect on rUK.

      But there is, and was, no way the Scottish government could have been the ones to reject the pound and plunge rUK, the BoE, the markets and business into the turmoil and uncertainty NOT offering one would create initially. Politically it would have been madness. This way, they are offering it honestly and over and over again, but Westminster are blasting it off the table, and at the same time taking the same line on it that the more radical independence campaigners are – i.e. you don’t want that, it’s not independent enough. Which from their point of view is madness on all levels. But that’s their choice.

      It’s a massively high stakes gamble. If it wins them the referendum, it wins them that. But that in itself will leave both Westminster and Labour in particular with huge problems come 2015. If it doesn’t win them the referendum….then what?

      What is Scottish Labour’s preferred currency option for an independent Scotland? What’s the Scottish Tories one? What’s the preferred option of all Better Together’s business backers? Are they all really with Radical Independence and Jim Sillars on preferring our own currency? And why is the media not asking questions like that of them? They’ll find a hell of a lot less allies for a CU among yes voters after a Yes than they would have found a year ago if they do have a sudden change of mind.

    159. PeeGee says:

      Somebody could ask cockney geezer and fake Scotsman darling if he’d pool and share his Millionaire resources with any members of his family who fell on hard times. Might make him twitch and gibber even more.

    160. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lesley-Anne says: 14 August, 2014 at 12:11 pm:

      “There again maybe he is just ill.

      Well, Lesley-Anne, just where is it defined that being on sick leave means the person on leave is the one who is ill? He may be on sick leave because everyone else is bloody sick of HIM.

    161. Training Day says:

      @Muttley

      Aye, I’m expecting Blair McDougall and Alistair Darling to be unashamedly introduced on a TV panel as ‘undecided’ before this campaign is out.

      And I’ve just seen the Rev’s new post where ‘ordinary’ isn’t all it’s cracked up to be – same tactic as using those ‘undecided’ No’s!

    162. heedtracker says:

      All Flipper and Bird will do tonight is rap on about how it’s too risky for your silly little Scottish types. Thats what J Bird was hitting Salmond with over and over but Salmond was pretty clear why it’s a risk in terms of investment and growth in Scotland or, Scottish money and work going into Scotland and NOT the south east off England. Somehow that won’t be raised with the Flipper.

      “A pound spent in Croydon is worth twice as much as a pound spent in Strathclyde, don’t you know”

      Future PM Boris Johnson and Christ help Scotlandshire.

    163. geeo says:

      @tam jardine.

      Apologies, but to be fair, i could have given you a mental image of mags curran with blair mcdougall ‘discussing’ how to stop a Yes vote while fighting over a quarter pound of sour plooms.

    164. Robert Peffers says:

      @Kenny says: 14 August, 2014 at 12:15 pm:An

      “However, if negotiations break down irretrievably, a judge will tend to divvy them up as fairly as possible.”

      As I’ve posted several times there is absolutely no legal basis whatsoever for the claim that ant divisions must be alonmg the lines of the current per capita population ratios. Nor, for that matter, upon even a mean average of the population proportions. Much more likely that it be based upon the actual mean revenues contributed by both Kingdoms since 1707.

    165. McTim says:

      @geeo, I am a genuine Yes supporter and I am not the only one who is against a currency union, and who wants us to use a new currency instead or bring back the Merk. Just because I mistakenly used the term default doesn’t make me a troll.

    166. geeo says:

      @mctim.

      With all due respect, i have no idea if you used the word default accidently or not.

      I can only judge you by your input.

      ‘Default’ is a top troll givaway.

    167. Gary says:

      Carney, who has in the past called Osborne “a huckster” says one thing, the press, TV and BT tell us he said the opposite. So much so that on some occasions I’ve had to go back and check! Of course I found they were lying but more importantly the public won’t check, they are victim to the state broadcaster’s propaganda and the collusion of a supposedly free press.

    168. geeo says:

      Darling at his best stuttering blustering best.

      Avoided every question yet again, flat refusing to even try answer the hypothetical question of what he would want as a currency option in the event of a Yes.

    169. McTim says:

      geooo, so you’ve read my entire post and ignored the rest of it? It’s not the first time I’ve posted on wings before, and I am involved in the campaign. I’ve also filmed several panels and both Indy marches (all on my youtube channel ReekieAuld) and I’ll be doing more Vox Pop interviews in Leith tomorrow. The fact that you think me a troll because of one word reflects more on you than on me. Can I suggest that you direct your anger at actual Unionists and not fellow Yes supporters?

    170. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jean says: 14 August, 2014 at 12:36 pm:

      “Please could someone advise re the deposits in the bank of England to cover Scottish notes in circulation. My understanding is that there is around £4 billion deposited.”

      I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, Jean, but as I understand it, what is deposited in the vaults of the BofE to cover the value of the Scottish banknotes in circulation is not, as many believe, gold bullion. It is BofE notes. These, though, are not in the sort of denominations one has in their purse or wallet.

      Thus, if the Kingdom of England refuse the kingdom of Scotland a Currency Union these notes have to be returned to Scotland. So, as far as the Kingdom of England’s treasury is concerned the situation is this : – they are immediately deducted that entire sum. Then as the BofE is partly the property of Scotland, (It was nationalised as part of the United Kingdom in 1946), and the claim it will be divided on the lines of population proportions is mince. The calculation would be on net contributions. So the Kingdom of England are down that sum too.

      Next comes the United Kingdom’s national debt. If they refuse a currency union and claim they are the continued United Kingdom and Scotland is leaving that continued state then the UK national debt is legally 100% theirs and Scotland is debt free.

      Now consider that at present the oil, gas and other Scottish exports are all part of the Sterling zone and a currency union ends that too. Westminster is at present only scratching the surface of austerity because they are broke and up over the head in debt. Do you imagine they are going to keep their credit rates post independence? So they are going to have to pay more interest on that, now greater, outstanding national debt.

      That’s why Alex Salmond knows there will be a currency union if Scotland gets independence. He at least knows the score. The Kingdom of England either agrees a currency union or it goes stony broke.

    171. Grouse Beater says:

      I noted Fear Press’s crazed take on Carney’s low-key announcement and wondered again if they should be incarcerated in an asylum.

    172. Robert Peffers says:

      TD says: 14 August, 2014 at 12:48 pm:

      “Re the £4 billion deposited by Scottish Banks with the Bank of England. My understanding is that the £4 billion belongs to the banks that issue banknotes i.e. BOS, RBS and the Clydesdale. It is not public money “

      Except it isn’t. It is in the pockets, purses and bank accounts of whoever holds the notes. Remember it says on each and every note, “The Royal Bank of Whatever, PLC, Promise to pay the bearer on demandTen pounds Sterling”, at theit head office here in Edinburgh by order of the board”. And it is dated and signed.

      It is in fact a promisory note. If you like it is an IOU that the bearer holds.

    173. Grouse Beater says:

      Breeks:
      Has there ever, throughout history, been a parallel to our circumstances, where a popular grassroots campaign of the people is contested by the media from an external powerbase? It is almost like Scotland is an occupied country, not occupied by troops but hostile journalists.

      Wise words worth repeating.

      Now you know why Chavez got so angry with his right wing press’s constant attacks, lies and black propaganda that he threatened to drag them through the courts and jail their editors.

    174. Grouse Beater says:

      McTim: We’d also have spending caps imposed on us.

      Absolutely NOT the case.

      There’s nothing ‘timid’ about the SNP’s policies for reisntating soveriegnty. All others in the past failed, the most notable from Jim Sillars, whom I notice you appear to echo in opinion.

      The plebiscite gives Scotland the historic opportunity to regain its birthright. All caveats and contrarian opinions should be held back until we win the day – then it is open season on many issues: the Royal Family, our own currency, the content of a Constitution, and so on, and so forth.

    175. Robert Peffers says:

      @sydthesnake says: 14 August, 2014 at 12:51 pm:

      “why has no reporter/newspaper asked for BT’s plan B in the event of a YES, surely this question works both ways.”

      Your missing the point, sydthesnake.

      When The Scottish Government tells them an independent Scotland is using the pound and would prefer a currency union they have punted the ball smack into the very centre of the Westminster court. The decision then, as to there being or not being, a currency union no longer rests with the Scottish Government. The decision is now that of Westminster.

      Has it now dawned upon you how clever oor Eck has been and how utterly idiotic he has made these numpties look? The idiots are going spare dancing on the spot, stamping their wee feet and repeating, ad infinitum, “Tell us your plan B”, when Eck has made that entirely their decision? How can a Scottish government decide for them? It isn’t in a Scottish governments power to choose if there will be a CU after they state, (without doubts), they are using the pound but would prefer a currency union.

      There simply is no plan B and they are so stupid they cannot, as yet, take that simple fact in. Get it now? It is, “We are using the pound and you get to choose if it’s in a currency union or not”.

    176. McTim says:

      @GrouseBeater,

      my concern is that the SNP at the moment appears to refuse to contenance the establishment of a Scottish central bank or an independent financial regulatory as soon as possible after Independence Day (both neccesary in any event for EU Member State status).

      If we’re reliant on the Bank of England, a public organisation held under a royal charter and accountable to rUK politicians, then there is a very real chance that political decisions will over-rule any economic logic, as with the euro. BoE can’t contract separately with a new Scottish state.

      If we state that Scotland will have its own currency, backed by a strong Scottish economy, and which will be pegged against sterling, then we have the basis for a negotiation. We can aim for the same framework as the successful Luxumbourg/Belgium currency union, which preceded the euro, and saw two pegged currencies, two cooperating central banks and free exchange. That’s why I think the Scottish Govt should make an official commitment to a new currency prior to the referendum and make a clean cut from the rUK. I am really not comfortable with the idea of the Bank of England determining our monetary policy. If we can get everything else sorted in 18 months, why not the set-up of a new Central Bank?

    177. K1 says:

      God Robert that is brilliant! It’s far too subtle for them…of course! Either way, we are home free, and he didn’t have to fight to bring it to their attention, they jumped right in to it. We don’t give a f**k what the currency set up is in reality (well I don’t), we want all the other stuff, in essence freedom to make our own choices and decide our future for ourselves!

      Brilliant!

    178. K1 says:

      God Robert that is brilliant! It’s far too subtle for them…of course! Either way, we are home free, and he didn’t have to fight to bring it to their attention, they jumped right in to it. We don’t give a f**k what the currency set up is in reality (well I don’t), we want all the other stuff, in essence freedom to make our own choices and decide our future for ourselves!

      Brilliant!

    179. Jean says:

      Thank you Robert and others for taking the time to respond re deposits in the BoE to cover the value of Scottish notes in circulation.
      My simple understanding is that if RBS for example prints £100000 of Scottish notes then that equivalent in gold or ‘titans’ or similar is lodged/ promised to the BoE and currently that is around £4billion.

      I would be happy to withdraw that back to Scotland along with all the income and tax revenues currently flowing south and watch them scrambling to agree a currency union.

    180. Kenny says:

      McTim – if you’re not on the No side, you’re doing a fine impression. Who kn the Yes side refers to the “Merk”? Whatever happens, we will be using pounds. You refer to “default” when we have no debt upon which to default (and potential creditors might look poorly on a country taking on debt it didn’t need to take on). You also state that a central bank is mandatory for EU membership. That is at best debatable. The wording of the treaty is very ambiguous.

      I’m not saying you ARE a double agent. You just appear very much to be acting like one. Arguing for a central bank and our own currency is fine. Those arguments have much merit. But don’t use dubious unionist lines to make them. It just looks like you’ve not been paying attention.

      On currency, let’s bear in mind that we effectively have a pegged currency now, maintained by the notes held at the BoE by the issuing banks – RBS, Clydesdale and the Bank of Scotland. There is no reason at all for us to worry about the pounds in our pockets. They are as solid as sterling regardless. There is also no reason not to allow them to continue issuing notes backed by gold or sterling or other currency reserves. That model has been almost forgotten in our world of today, but private issuing banks were fairly normal back in the 18th century. Many feel that’s the way forward. Our exports should easily bring in enough foreign currency to help maintain such a peg on all the non-cash money in the economy.

      Of course, all that is only necessary if rUK turns down a currency union. Which they still may not…

    181. McTim says:

      My choice of words wasn’t good, fair enough. We have no legal obligation to pay our share, and considering that we’ve been lied to for over 30 years about the McCrone Report and how we’ve been impoverished as a result, and how we’ve already paid a substantial amount in debt interest, we can argue that if we are expected to pay the debt share but not get any assets in return, that Better Together can hardly take the high ground and argue for a moral obligation on our part to take our share of the debt. Look, I’m not comfortable with a currency union, and I’m completely opposed to it as a long-term policy. I also don’t want us to join the Euro which, due to ERMII, wouldn’t happen instantly anyway. I realise that a new Scottish Pound or the restoration of the Merk (Gavin McCrone spoke about this at the start of May as a possibility by the way) has disadvantages too, but I think making an official commitment to a new currency now would be really bold. Let Flipper & co be snide about it; they’ll be negative about anything the FM says anyway. Jim Sillars may not be as shrewd a tactician as Eck but I agree with Jim that our own currency would give us complete control over monetary/fiscal policy. Why does there appear to be so little appetite for a central bank and a new currency right from the beginning? I’m genuinely asking. As an aside, I also post on WeeGingerDug and have exchanged emails with Paul Kavanagh. He can confirm that I genuinely want Independence, and that I’m not wasting my time as a “mole”/”double agent”/”troll” on Wings, Bella, Newsnet etc.

    182. Kenny says:

      Nae bother. At least you didn’t use “groats.” That would have been a dead giveaway 😉

    183. McTim says:

      Thanks, Kenny.

    184. McTim says:

      Guess it just means that if we keep Sterling and the SNP has no intentions of changing that after a transition period following our win on Sept 18, I’m going to have to vote for the Greens or any party that will campaign for a new currency in the 2016 election. Would like to see Allan Grogan and his LFI team take over the Labour party and turn it into a proper socialist party again.

    185. Kenny says:

      To me, that’s the most interesting thing about the referendum campaign. How many more Scots now know who Colin Fox and Robin McAlpine and Patrick Harvie are? How many more hands has Tommy Sheridan shaken? I think he’s pretty much rehabilitated now. The Lib Dems are gone. Labour will have a wee existential crisis. The Tories, oddly, will rebound strongly although most likely under another name. And the SNP vote may be strong in 2016, but I suspect they’ll actually slump badly. But there are a whole lot of interesting things about to happen if we vote Yes. No will be interesting too, but in a much less pleasurable way.

    186. McTim says:

      Labour in its current form is screwed regardless of which way it goes. They’ve refused to learn from 2007 and 2011, and the prospect of the likes of Curran, Davidson and Alexander coming back and trying to become the new Scottish Govt after they’ve pooh-poohed Independence so hard gives me the dry boak. If anyone from the Labour ranks deserves to be involved in the negotiations, it’d be someone like Henry McLeish if he comes out for Yes before the vote. I think talk of the SNP disbanding is nonsense but it’s likely that some MPs will move on to other parties, and I don’t know if they’ll slump badly: 1) they’ve had a pretty good record of governing, especially compared to the opposition and a lot of people will be thinking “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”, 2) along the same lines, Labour have so discredited themselves that only die-hards will still vote for them and even if Allan Grogan’s LFI take over, I suspect that a lot of folks will want to see how they stack up as the opposition before they’ll let them have a crack at governing. In the event of a No vote, everyone of us will need to vote SNP at the 2015 UK election to ensure we limit damage from Westminster as much as possible, then vote SNP en masse again in 2016 and push them for an election manifesto promise to run a second Indy referendum in 2017 right after England has voted all of us out of the EU. I think if the vote is very close this time, say 51% to 49%, then I think that, coupled with the risks posed to our Scottish NHS and the EU in/out referendum, the SNP would have a compelling pretext for running another referendum sooner than later. On the other hand, if No were to win big (which hopefully ain’t going to happen), then the case becomes harder to argue and it’d have to wait another ten years. All that said, I do think it’ll be a Yes. It’s entirely anecdotal but my husband and I were in Bruntsfield Thursday last week and on the way back we counted 7 windows with Yes stickers against 1 No Thanks one, and this past Sunday we were in Portobello and on the route back from there to Leith, I counted 19 windows for Yes against none for BT/No Thanks at all. So, hopefully we’ll come through ok in September although a narrow 51% majority, while we’d all gladly take it I’m sure, is not ideal for us either.

    187. Grouse Beater says:

      McTim: my concern is that the SNP at the moment appears to refuse to contenance the establishment of a Scottish central bank or an independent financial regulatory as soon as possible after Independence Day (both neccesary in any event for EU Member State status).

      I think you meant to write – your ‘personal’ concern.

      There have been discussions suggesting a Scottish currency will be on the table in time ahead. But don’t stick that on the SNP unless you mean to tarnish them with indifference – there’s no guarantee they will be in government simultaneously.

      If you’re not a recognised economist, an elected politician specialising in economics, or a Bank of England executive, forget it. No one need listen to you.



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