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Dissatisfaction guaranteed

Posted on September 15, 2016 by

The press and social media today are frothing with excitement about a new Ipsos Mori poll for STV which shows (for the second poll in succession) Ruth Davidson scoring marginally higher approval ratings than Nicola Sturgeon.

davidsonpop

But the problem is that that wasn’t what people were actually asked.

This is the actual question in the poll:

“Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the way Ruth Davidson is doing her job as leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party?”

And there are a whole bunch of obvious problems with that. Because if you asked us that question, we honestly wouldn’t have a clue how to answer it.

We don’t like Ruth Davidson or the Tories and we don’t want the Tories to be in power. So should we be “satisfied” that she’s got them in a position where their support is just 21% and there’s no chance of them winning an election? You could argue perfectly reasonably that from a partisan viewpoint we should be very satisfied indeed.

As an alert reader perceptively noted on Twitter, it’s a bit like asking Scotland fans if they’re satisfied with Joe Hart’s performance as England goalkeeper.

On the other hand, we could look at it rather more dispassionately and say that she’s unquestionably doing the job of a Conservative leader well – she’s increased their support by six points in a year (which looked at another way is a whopping great 40% increase on the previous figure, from 15% at the 2015 election to 21% in this May’s), doubled their seats at Holyrood and overtaken Labour as the main opposition party.

So we could legitimately answer every possible option to that question (satisfied, dissatisfied or don’t know). It’s a very badly-worded and ambiguous bit of polling. But whichever answer we gave wouldn’t mean that Ruth Davidson was “popular” with us – we still wouldn’t like her either way.

And that’s before you get to the fact that the question isn’t comparing like with like. Because the Nicola Sturgeon version goes like this:

“Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the way Nicola Sturgeon is doing her job as First Minister of Scotland?”

Asking whether someone is doing well for their country isn’t the same thing as asking whether they’re doing well for their party. Our view, for example, is that anything that’s good for the Scottish Conservatives is almost certainly bad for Scotland. Other people will have other views. But either way they’re two fundamentally different questions.

So you’re asking two different questions about two different people, neither of which have any connection to “popularity”, and which are highly ambiguous and confusing in themselves, and then the media is reporting that the resulting mess of unrelated data proves one of the people is more popular than the other.

(And rather oddly, Ipsos haven’t included party allegiances in the results, so we can’t even tell if any of the leaders is doing surprisingly well with supporters of other parties, and if so which ones, or whether the poll’s been properly weighted for party support. The technical notes certainly make no mention of weighting by allegiance.)

ipsosweighting

So what we’ve got here is terrible polling, terrible reporting of the terrible polling, and hopelessly confused members of the public trying to make sense of it all somewhere in the middle. Welcome to Scottish politics 2016, everyone.

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    323 to “Dissatisfaction guaranteed”

    1. Robert Louis says:

      ‘Ruth Davidson is more popular with Scots than Nicola Sturgeon, new STV poll finds’

      NO IT DOESN’T.

    2. CmonIndy says:

      It’s just another sign that the Unionists are panicking. Do you think the question design was accidental?

    3. Craig vint says:

      Ruth is doing a great job…. Of being the mouth piece of a conservative government who have nothing but contempt for Scotland and the Scottish but a great love for the resources our country!

    4. yerkitbreeks says:

      This short analytical article is why it’s always refreshing to log onto the site – pity so many will take this poll, for example at face value.

      On the other hand, the supposed result could be a wake up call for waverers.

    5. Arbroath1320 says:

      Oh look folks a polling company’s weird questioning about two party leaders discombobulates people with their obtuse and awkward questioning. 😉

      Next week people will be asked:

      “do you prefer strawberry sauce or 100’s and 1,000’s on your 99?”

      and

      “Do you prefer ice cream or an ice lolly on a hot Summer’s day”

      😀

    6. Macart says:

      Ayup, had a wee look at that earlier and thought the headline to be more than a tad misleading.

      Well, probably not the first phrase which sprang to mind, but they amount to the same thing. 🙂

    7. Paul Wilson says:

      Is Ruth Davidson a liar is what should have been asked. The Yooniosts are panicking they know full well that yes will win the next referendum to be at 48% now has them breeking themselves.

    8. winifred mccartney says:

      Ipsos Mori – I wonder who funds them – any ideas. These polls are accepted as true and it is only when the answer is so obviously wrong we begin to ask questions. The usual just tell the plebs what WE want them to hear. We are seeing a full scale assault on Scots and the SNP using any and all distortions they can muster.

      You know what they say you can prove anything with statistics – its also true for polls expecially when they are obviously bent and doctored so much they are meaningless – like comparing apples and oranges.

    9. Smallaxe says:

      Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the way Ruth Davidson is doing her job as leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party? Bearing in mind that she takes her orders from
      London HQ,who are the proud holders of the King Midas in reverse Award.

      Peace Always ALLWAYS

    10. Craig says:

      With the Wings coffers at a good level, surely it is time a bit of polling from the Rev Stew?

    11. Richardinho says:

      I think there are genuinely people who have the idea that the Tories could one day become the dominant party in Scotland as they were in the 1950s. Stories like that basically allow them to maintain that cosy notion, but when you look at the facts, as Wings have done here, you discover that it is just a complete delusion.

      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: There is room in Scotland for a right of centre political party, pro-business and moderately socially conservative to have mass appeal and to win elections- and to some extent this IS the SNP. But the Scottish Conservatives are not that party: They are a simply order takers for the English Conservative party. They are thus the very antithesis of what a right wing party should be.

      The people who vote for the Scottish Tories are: crazy people, weirdo sectarian types, people with a grudge against society (Torrance, Macmillan etc), and actual English Conservatives living in Scotland. And yes that probably adds up to about 21% of the population but it’s a pretty hard ceiling I’d suggest.

      And they’re not the type of people who are going to look at stories like this too critically in any case.

    12. Neil MacKenzie says:

      Daisley,Daisley, give me your answer true….

    13. Juteman says:

      As someone that wants an independent Scotland, I think she is wonderful. She is very popular with me.

    14. One_Scot says:

      As I have said before, the only way the Yoon media and British establishment can stop Independence is by preventing IndyRef2.

      They believe they can do this by constantly pumping out a drip drip of misleading Yoons polls, using misleading questions. They can then use the manipulated information to create misleading media headlines.

      Don’t expect them to stop any time soon.

    15. blackhack says:

      I really don’t know where these polling companies get their information from….I, nor anyone I know, has ever been asked their opinions on anything to do with Scottish politics.

      I think they just make up the info to “Earn” their fees.

    16. Scott Borthwick says:

      Or, as they used to say, a muddle rather than a fiddle.

      I’d say Ruthie is doing a great job, especially given that her likely replacement would be Murdo Fraser. Or, God help us all, Tompkins.

      I’m unclear as to why she thinks Coca Cola is Scottish, though.

    17. X_Sticks says:

      So which tory party members own Ipsos-Mori? They are as bad as Ashcrofts polls. They are not done to inform people, they are done to manipulate people. They should be decried for the meaningless nonsense that they are.

    18. Macbeda says:

      O/T slightly

      May really has it in for wee Davy C.

      Clearing out his crap to get her own place people in.

      BBC Trust chairwoman quits after PM tells her to reapply for her own job

      https://www.rt.com/uk/359311-bbc-trust-chairwoman-fairhead/

    19. Valerie says:

      I make no apology for praising Ruth doing her job well! Teresa’s woman in Scotland is a fine example of her party.

      Cynical Ruth (less), playing the media like a cheap fiddle, with her angry wee face. Talking down Scotland, doing U turns on EU.

      Her EU panel of ‘exes’.

      What’s not to like?

    20. mike cassidy says:

      The deliberate distortion here is illustrated by leading with a headline which is a lie

      and then following it with the news that the same poll shows an increase in support for independence

      http://archive.is/KzVzU

      which means that STV is doing an alice-in-wonderland here.

      Scots like Davidson more than Sturgeon but more of them than ever want the thing that Davidson doesn’t want them to ever have.

      So STV are now open in their hostility!

      And stupid enough to think it won’t be exposed so clearly.

    21. TheItalianJob says:

      When I saw the STV headline this morning I immediately thought “Aye right”. On reading the article I also noted that support for Indepedence was showing at 48%. That’s very encouraging news.

      Didn’t take long for Stu to get into the poll details and give us the “true picture” so to speak.

    22. Macbeda says:

      Now the bastards are going after our young, again.

      Military recruiters disproportionately targeting Scottish schools – petition
      https://www.rt.com/uk/359331-scottish-schools-military-petition/

      Get their own kids into the military to get killed.

      Wonder if another war is in the making?

    23. desimond says:

      Survey of my household reveals STV viewed as a bigger bunch of chancers than the BBC!.

      We will soon just have News being “Headlines”…and a bunch of 1 line statements being read out or printed online ( possibly to the chimes of big ben)

      No content, no back up, no references. Simple statement to be taken as fact.

      Now eat your cereal.

      (BTW..anyone else see The Herald being given away yesterday in Glasgow Central…times must be tough..which is nice)

    24. Desimond says:

      Survey of my household reveals STV viewed as a bigger bunch of chancers than the BBC!

      We will soon just have the News being “Headlines”…and a bunch of 1 line statements being read out or printed online ( possibly to the chimes of Big Ben)

      No content, no back up, no references. Just a simple statement to be taken as fact.

      Now eat your cereal.

      (BTW..anyone else see The Herald being given away yesterday in Glasgow Central…times must be tough..which is nice)

    25. Did STV misinterpret the findings, or deliberately misrepresent the findings?

    26. galamcennalath says:

      The underlying question we really should be asking is – cock up or conspiracy?

      They can engineer in “terrible polling” as a means to get the result which best suits their clients agenda. In the current climate of “Scottish politics 2016”, I go with conspiracy.

    27. ROBBO says:

      Sorry I would like to say that I am astonished by this latest distortion but I’m not. I’ve lost trying to establish if any of these so-called respectable media journalists have any semblence of decency left. I wounder if they sleep soundly at night with their inflated pay cheques and they feel contented they have done something deserving to make Scotland a better place. I am nearly 70years and have over that time lived the length and breadth of this country as have my two grown up children and their families and to my knowledge none of us have been asked for our opinions which surprises me. I can conclude that the respondents are very carefully chosen to give the desired result. If it had been the BBC then that I would expect this but not sure STV have the guile to do this but at least they are now clearly showing their hand well in advance of Indy2.

    28. snode1965 says:

      STV political editor, and frothing Yoon, spins misleading headline on biased poll they funded.

    29. Neil Mackenzie says:

      How do they Know what anyone’s “sex education attainment” is?

    30. Desimond says:

      snode1965

      Pound to a penny its the big booming headline from “IM JOHN MACKAY!” tonight on main STV News.

    31. Grouse Beater says:

      Engineer consent and conformity; what else does the MSM do?

    32. harry mcaye says:

      O/T There is a spectacular letter from a Unionist from Shropshire in today’s Hamilton Advertiser. Beleives everything Westminster said in the run up to indyref. Quite staggering in its delusion. I hope there might be a few good replies next week.

    33. Arbroath1320 says:

      Think I’ve found out why oor wee Ruthie the leetle tankette commander is more 😉 popular than Nicola. 😀

      https://twitter.com/eliz_lloyd/status/776376766273388544

      Apparently it is Tory practice these days, in Scotland, to take N.H.S. figures from ENGLAND and use them to *ahem* attack the Scottish Government about how poor the SCOTTISH N.H.S. is. 😛

    34. louis.b.argyll says:

      Desmond..1213..
      Yes I also got a free Herald thrust into my clutches while passing Central Station..
      A quite extraordinary article within, singing the praises of David Cameron, was nearly sick on the train.

    35. Macbeda says:

      It was telephone survey.

      Notoriously inaccurate as the response rate is usually less than 50% and can often go as low as 30%.

      The margins of error creeps up in this case.

      And once the original selected sample drops below a 50% response then the survey is basically crap and not representative of the population it is trying to represent.

      If they have to keep upping the calls to get up the 1000 respondents it is then no longer a statistically pure sample survey and should be discounted as complete bollocks because the sampling error just goes out the window.

      Ipsos Mori obviously needs the money and will survey anything to get it.

    36. scoatch says:

      The last YouGov poll which trumpeted Davidson inching ahead of Sturgeon did show party allegiances, and it seemed very telling.

      Davidson (SNP voters) -2
      Sturgeon (Conservative voters) -70

      I’m sure that’s partly because Sturgeon’s got real responsibilities and something tangible for people to care about, but I think it says A LOT more about the mindset of Scottish Tories these days. Who’s the blinkered, unreasonable cult in that picture? Not the SNP.

    37. Fred says:

      They’re needing to ask the question again because Nicola just wiped the floor with Davidson at FMQT.

    38. Wulls says:

      theres a golden opportunity to run our own poll 🙂
      “Who would you prefer to see running the Scottish government”

    39. Robert Peffers says:

      The claimed results of this poll by the, “Wonderful”, Mainstream Scottish Media are utter rubbish but what else can we expect from that, “Wonderful”, Scottish Mainstream media.

      The poll itself is a masterpiece of deliberate ambiguity by a long discredited pollster, but what else can we expect from such a pollster?

      There can really only be three real conclusions drawn from such sheer idiocy :-

      The first being that the entire unionist support has gone into extreme panic mode as they have no real idea of what else they can to do to retain their unionist grip on Scotland.

      The second being that the unionists side no longer seeks to convince anyone in Scotland by the rightness of their policies. They seek instead to retain what little remains of their loyal support among the more lunatic fringe, the less intelligent voters and those with other, self interested, motives, for remaining loyal to their long discredited union. As, for example, those with their overlong snouts already buried so deep within the Unionist feeding trough.

      The third is that they have finally outwardly given up all hope of their union remaining a force in Britain but they cannot yet bring themselves to admit, to themselves, the end is in sight.

      “It’s comin yet fir aa that”.

      BTW: I use the term, “Wonderful”, but the wonder is that they still exist in Scotland. I suspect there is hidden unionist funding. It isn’t hard to find such hidden funding. Unionist controlled councils place council adverts and council notices in those, “Wonderful”, media outlets and, as we all know, the dead tree press does not now rely upon their vanishing circulation figures.

    40. Proud Cybernat says:

      Rab interprets for Union Jackie…

      http://imgur.com/a/yHvod

    41. Greannach says:

      I am deliriously satisfied with the way Tanktop is leading her party. Long may she continue in the same view. But I don’t like her or her crowd of oddballs.

    42. McDuff says:

      “the yoons are panicking“
      Where is the evidence for this.
      I don`t think for one minute they are panicking, they have the entire MSM daily promoting Unionism and demonising independence. Complacency is the enemy.
      Have the SNP gone to sleep, they seem tired and uninspired and without passion which is evident when being interviewed on TV. They never seem to go on the attack and use Denmark, Finland, New Zealand etc as examples of what Scotland could be and challenge Dugdale and Davidson to explain why Scotland with its resources and people are incapable of the same quality of life that these small countries enjoy.
      Just jogging along aint going to get independence.
      Maybe I`m wrong and its just around the corner.

    43. Angry Weegie says:

      According to the Torygraph, even Theresa May is more popular in Scotland than Nicola. If you thought Davidson was difficult to swallow, May will definitely make you choke.

    44. heedtracker says:

      Tory gerrymandering’s never pretty but this is so dirty it could just as easy be BBC Vote Ruth Scotland. Poor Kez. The frauds don’t even have the decency to include the question they asked. A cheap dirty fraud on Scottish democracy but they end today’s tory shyst with

      http://archive.is/KzVzU

      “However, the SNP will take succour from the poll’s findings on undecided voters, who make up 6.5% of respondents.”

      We’re just another bunch of tory frauds on all of you Scotland, but take our “succour.”

    45. Proud Cybernat says:

      There’s ‘Ruth’ in ‘Truth’ but there’s nae truth in Ruth. Nor in these silly polls.

    46. Luigi says:

      As has been mentioned already, the establishment is going all out to prevent IndyRef 2. True to form, they have panicked, gone far too early and over-egged it completely.

      BREXIT has not even started, and yet the BBC is already sweating blood trying to convince us that BREXIT ain’t such a bad idea after all. And now all those dubious opinion poll results. What a coincidence. Short-term expediency leads to massive long-term problems. After 2014, they really ought to know that. I guess they just can’t help themselves. Cowards cannot stop panicking.My heart bleeds. 🙂

    47. G H Graham says:

      Adolf Hitler was more popular than Joseph Stalin.

      At least in Berlin, he was.

      For a while, anyway.

      Then one day, David Hasselhoff showed up. Game over, man. Game over.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6LzWdnaTms

    48. Jack Murphy says:

      OT. Proof the BBC is controlled by the Establishment.
      BBC TOLD….
      “The BBC will be forced to reveal the salaries of stars paid more than £150,000 within the next year, after the new Culture Secretary accused the corporation of a “lack of openness and transparency”.

      Who is kidding who?
      They are all in this together—-BBC TOLD by government.
      What next? BBC HQ telling BBC Scotland Branch bosses what to do?
      It’s called the ‘trickle down effect’ in the Establishment.

      The Telegraph:- http://archive.is/Mnfmt

    49. Proud Cybernat says:

      I’ll be bringing some nice Union Jacks to Glasgow Green on Sunday if anyone would like to buy one.

      Cheers,

      PS – Meant to say – they’re UJ doormats.

    50. Breeks says:

      @ Macbeda 12:09

      What chance is there of eradicating the nepotism and corruption running rife through our society and local government when the problem goes right to the top with the UK Prime Minister arbitrarily hiring, firing, and awarding peerages and promotions to their chums? Getting rid of one is no more shocking or outrageous than appointing one.

      Never mind knowing what it is for, do these people even know what a moral compass actually is?

      Can anybody name me one UK body or institution which is NOT riven with duplicity, corruption, nepotism and collusion? Just one.

      Our society is so fully saturated with sleaze and corruption that it is only now only the extent of corruption which moves us. We are numb and indifferent to the principle itself.

    51. Onwards says:

      Looks like Daisley on the wind-up.

      Any reasonable person wouldn’t seriously deliver that headline from the question asked.

    52. dcanmore says:

      is that a Daisley headline I wonder?

    53. Arbroath1320 says:

      What can I say? 😉

      The good old Tory party at its *ahem* gerrymandering best! 😀

      https://twitter.com/MeanwhileScotia/status/776394262456000512

      Looks like he is gonna be up in front of the head teacher later on today after that disaster then. 😛

    54. Meg merrilees says:

      Another twisted, propaganda assault on truth and democracy! Thank goodness for The Rev!

      Seems that STV are finding ever-devious ways to conceal the truth whilst we now have confirmation that the BBC is expected to issue propaganda.

      Notice the latest draft BBC charter renewal requires the BBC to have a ‘UK wide approach’ and ‘support and promote the United Kingdom’.

      I’ve already noticed, frequently, that Nicola is only reported in writing on the BBC website whilst Ruth Davidson’s comments are often reported and supported by a video link – for full impact? It’s much easier to find video news than written news these days – another uneven playing field?.

      If the BBC agree’s to ” support the social cohesion and well-being of the UK”, then maybe they won’t give airtime to Nigel Farage; the National Front; the Tory government.. Maybe?

      Work’s both ways!
      We’ll not hold our breath!

    55. Lochside says:

      So more people trust/ like a fat drag king with an ugly angry face who spouts unchallenged and ludicrous lies about Scotland supported by our yellow ‘media’?

      And as for this poll about Ruth Davidson’s popularity over Nicola, Sturgeon…what’s that about?

    56. gordoz says:

      Scottish media lead the world in the ‘Art of Deception’

    57. HandandShrimp says:

      I have been asked a leadership poll by phone in the past. It was the same question for each leader “how well are they doing leading their party”. A pretty outrageous skew that one by STV.

      Not that it matters really. Annabel Goldie was popular but her party was not. The SNP voters are not going to prefer Ruth no matter how neutral they are on Ruth.

      One of the most interesting things in recent coverage has been how the Unionist support has swung almost exclusively behind Ruth. Kezia has been thrown under a bus. However, I do not believe there is the level of die hard Unionist support necessary to propel the Tories much further than about 25 to 30% of the vote.

      We live in interesting times but although the reaction to the poll is laughable (as is the poll) the real underlying worry is for Labour.

    58. Andrew McLean says:

      So Ipsos MORI have released a shamefully incompetent survey, 1000 telephone calls? really?
      So the snapshot they would have us believe is that in Scotland 31% of Scots approve of Ruth Davidson, but only 16% approve of Teresa May? but minus 26% of us approve of Jeremy Corbin and only 16% approve of Nicola Sturgeon?

      Ok who sold the homemade vodka to Ipsos! The idiots are off their faces! Either that or someone has just had a very large bung! Honestly even little old me has been involved in the commissioning of satisfaction surveys, actually its part of my professional life. And believe me if anyone tried to present this crap to me, they would be leaving the office with my shoe rammed completely up their arse!

      As for the so called journalists in Scotland, well that the point isn’t it? they could have a meeting in a phone box and you could still fit Pavarotti in!

    59. Clapper57 says:

      62% Scots voted to remain in EU

      Ruth Davidson Tory

      Tories caused Brexit

      Ruth Davidson is more popular with Scots than Nicola Sturgeon….really ?

      Nicola Sturgeon wants Scotland to remain in EU

      Do they really think that politically informed Scots are THAT thick that this headline could even be considered credible ?

      Really begs the questions of who they ask , what did they ask and why they asking ? Though I am sure if you have unionist allegiance or are politically gullible then you need look no further than the headline.

      Unionist political spin is such a ruthless (no pun intended…well maybe ) bitch. Tories may be sick of referendums but….. well…… these popularity polls you can never have enough of, especially if you can create a fake impression by spinning them to f*ck and back.

      Hey Ho ain’t this just another big yawn , massive sigh and been there before and sure we’ll revisit moment .

    60. Kevin Evans says:

      You know – if I am honest (I always am) and share some deep down fear I have had for the last short while it would be that the yoons were doing very very well lately with there PR both positive to the unionist pals and negative to the YES mod.

      But support for independence is up. After the barrage of smear, negativity and complete media bias YES is still rising. That’s brilliant – they can’t hold back the tsunami that’s coming and the EU brexit dam is ready to burst and along with that will come a flow of YES supporters who have either had enough or are ready to lose there shit and house.

      Never used this before until now – tick tock.

    61. bilptoe says:

      It’s telling that with all that popularity one of her own ministers would prefer to go walking in the highlands with Nicola. Ouch!

    62. Proud Cybernat says:

      To be fair, the Yoon Establishment has to do something to try and give their ever dwindling support something to cheer about – even if it is a pile of poo.

      But the positive thing for the Indy side is that a lot of soft No Scots will take one look at this so-called poll and quietly mutter to themselves, “Aye, right.” (Scotland – the only country in the world where two positives make a negative).

      Yoons clearly desperate to contort and twist the narrative by whatever means they can. Something’s afoot.

    63. Laverock says:

      I had a rant on twitter a week or two back when yougov were mispresenting their polling in the exact same way. ‘Popularity’ is by no means the same as ‘doing the job well’. I don’t like Ruth Davidson one bit and wouldn’t vote for her if she was the only candidate. But if I was asked the question that was asked in the poll, I’d say that she’s doing well at her job, which is to lead the tories.

      The fact that another polling company are misrepresenting their own polling in the same way looks odd to me. Polling deals in facts and numbers. You can interpret them yourself, or you can get prof curtice in to explain. But if the companies are releasing the information under headlines which don’t reflect what their numbers show, it makes me suspicious about their motives. And if they keep doing it, it won’t be long before I don’t even believe their numbers any more.

    64. Petra says:

      ….”So you’re asking two different questions about two different people, neither of which have any connection to “popularity” …..

      In other words the findings of the Poll would be considered to be invalid and I think we can safely say that we wont be inclined to believe in Ipsos Mori data / statistics from now on.

      (Reposting:)

      Strange don’t you think that Davidson with 20% of the vote, less popular than Maggie Thatcher in Scotland, would be voted most popular leader? I mean to say what SNP supporter, Green or Labour for that matter would ‘tick her box’? The latter account for over 70% of the Electorate. Where were they when the poll was held?

      The bottom line is that if they report such rubbish (propaganda) some people will start thinking that they must have missed something and that Davidson might be half decent right enough. They, as Unionists, are focusing on Davidson holding the Union together because rotten as she is (and her Tory party) there is no other ‘viable’ contender to do so. Dugdale and Labour (north and south of the border) are a lost cause and wee Willie Winkie a total liability

    65. heraldnomore says:

      Witney calling Ruthie-babe; Witney calling Ruthie-babe.

      Come on down, 20 October, see how popular you can be. Good career move Ruthie-babe.

      Now off you go dear, GTF.

    66. Stevie says:

      The pigs that commission this polling are misinformationists

    67. One_Scot says:

      Apparently the Scottish Six News is dead. Seemingly the BBC is required by law to keep us in a cage and fed only when hungry.

    68. Breastplate says:

      ” You can fool some of the people all the time”.
      That’s the group of dullards this nonsense is aimed at.

      The hope is to get enough of these simpletons on board the good ship Brititanic to avert Scottish independence.
      It worked with The Vow.

      Just after Indy1 somebody on wings, I think, said that there were only 3 types of No voters.
      1. The selfish
      2. The cowardly
      3. The Gullible
      I agree and this poll is for the fuckwit category.

    69. Mike says:

      I think I put my previous comment regarding polling fraud in the wrong article.

      Please note the following.
      The previous 3 polls from Ipsos Mori Yougov and I forgot who did the other have all rigged their polls using the same very same distinctive flawed weighting methodology.

      They are using an unbalanced polling sample, unbalanced by age demographic.
      They appear to deliberately be asking twice as many over 55s or over 65s for their opinion than they are asking any other single age group.
      You can see from the breakdown of the actual age group voting that those over 65s “OVERWHELMINGLY” support the union while those measured within the 16 to 24s and 25s to 35s OVERWHELMINGLY vote Independence. The other age groups are more or less balanced in support enough to be insignificant.
      So by using twice as many pro union supporting over 65s than any other age group you unbalance the result in favour of the union.
      You can equally unbalance the result unfairly in favour of Independence on the same poll if you instead doubled up on the number of 16 to 24s or 25s to 35s asked.
      It would be equally unbalanced and unreliable but you can see how easy it is to get a desired result from a speculative poll.
      If you don’t see a poll where the age demographic is evenly represented then you aint seeing a balanced and fair poll.
      I don’t believe this is an unnoticed flaw in the system I believe this is full and open cooperation between the pollsters and their commissioners.
      No more surprising that seeing full blown Media bias in the UK.

    70. Luigi says:

      Tell you what, let’s have Nicola and Ruth walk down any busy street in Scotland and see who is most popular.

    71. Robert Graham says:

      Well I suppose when you think you’re audience are totally stupid something like this makes perfect sense if they fall for this anything goes, let me see if I am following this correctly a proven stranger to the truth representing a government that would make even Maggie blush and a party who 80% of voters have rejected comes top of a dubious poll , aye OK that makes perfect sense.
      I you believe that you should not be allowed to vote in any election even for the colour of your local bus stop if there were ever to be a vote on that.

    72. heedtracker says:

      Scottish media lead the world in the ‘Art of Deception’

      BBC’s unique as we all pay for that load of shysters but ITV’s always been ferociously tory. My generation grew up watching really nasty toryboys like Alistair Burnett big up and grovel to Snatcher Thatcher, News at 10 every single night. Spitting Image had Burnett’s hooter slowly inflate like a red balloon, with every single tory fraud the lick spittle came out with. It was a bit odd as Spitting Image could follow Burnett’s party political broadcasts on behalf of the blessed Margret. BBC toryboys would never dare.

      Its the same in all right wing elitist cleptocracies across the world and its most extreme in the US. Canada has the same tory ITV, Fox news makes billions profit, owned by just the usual tory reprobates.

      http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/roger-ailes-kicked-fox-news-headquarters-office-article-1.2720469

      The one constant in all of them, is their relentless UK royals groveling which is a bit of surprise, to watch Canadian tv gimps go all weird over prince and princess whoever.

    73. One_Scot says:

      Sometimes wonder why they don’t just go the whole hog and pull the Scotland plug out at the wall.

    74. Free Scotland says:

      “Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the way Ruth Davidson is doing her job as leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party?”

      Yes, very satisfied. Her performance is proving what I always felt to be true about her: she’s an utter buffoon.

    75. Kevin Evans says:

      @luigi 2:38 pm

      Or even a walk in the highlands lol

    76. heedtracker says:

      Rancid Graun’s Scottish news, old billionaire hits a deer. As sneaky shits go, Graun really does enjoy trolling its Scotland region.

      http://archive.is/S1gD6

    77. manandboy says:

      Ruth Davidson is looking bad in the media because she will not retract her party’s xenophobic statement about an EU citizen being involved in a planning application in Aberdeenshire as being ‘bizarre’.
      Tory HQ think ‘must help Ruthie here, but how? Ah, let’s do the poll trick!’

    78. Cactus says:

      An excellent point Luigi at 2:38 pm, yeah who’s the most likeable and approachable on the streets. Good question.

      Aff topic ~

      How to promote this Sunday..? If you’re free and free in Glasgow City tomorrow, you could always rustle up some laminated A3 posters for show outside Central Station and Buchanan Street bus stations tomorrow at the peak times, along the lines of..

      INDEPENDENCE RALLY
      Glasgow Green
      Sunday
      2pm

      You could also put a shout out for Saturday’s event too. Gonna be a lorra people. Gonna be some weekend!

      I Love Glasgow.

    79. Takeour blueback says:

      Ruth Davidson is doing extremely well …. for the tank industry…. of course unless it’s an MOD supplier of Tank equipment, then you’re fooked all ways!

    80. galamcennalath says:

      The STV poll puts Yes:No level pegging with the error limits.

      This is despite no campaign whatsoever pushing Indy.

      In contrast, we have had two years of intense anti Scottish/SG/SNP attacks from WM and right across all media.

      I think that is remarkable! It bodes very well as a starting point once pro Indy campaigning begins.

      There is another possibility. The net effect of the never ending Union campaign has been more than outweighed by the behaviour of WM!

      As well as orchestrating an anti Indy campaign, WM has been unintentionally running an even more effective anti Union campaign. Hilarious, if true.

      As the saying goes (something like), ‘Scotland will never achieve independence by itself, we will need Tory help’.

    81. Capella says:

      Screaming Scottish Daily mail front page that the Scottish Six has been kyboshed by Westminster ministers because the BBC Charter says it must look after the well being of the UK.
      So that’s us telt:
      http://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/textview

      Of course, can we believe what the Daily Mail say? Don’t see anything on the BBC news site about it.

    82. orri says:

      Tables are here,

      https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Scotland/ipsos-mori-scotland-spom-september-2016-tables.pdf

      A quick check shows that the figures have been adjusted to give a 44.5 / 55.5 split on how people intend to vote for independence once you remove don’t knows. Seems a bit suspect to me. Then again, as might have already been pointed out, they don’t give any figures for voting intention, last vote recalled indy, GE or Holyrood.

    83. heedtracker says:

      Red and blue tory yoons loving it. Only in the Scotland region can you get SLab twits boosting a Tory twits. Tory FM Davidson may not happen any time soon but at the very least Scottish tory FM’s, red or blue, cant kill anyone or go to war.

      Scott Arthur Retweeted
      Murdo Fraser ?@murdo_fraser 6h6 hours ago
      It really is an extraordinary day that the Tory Prime Minister is more popular in Scotland than the SNP First Minister

    84. Greannach says:

      Anyone know when the Herald’s changing its name to “Neues Deutschland”?

    85. galamcennalath says:

      orri says:

      “Tables are here,”

      Table 1 says weighted result 48:52.

      Weighted should be more accurate because it adjusts for gender and age to match the actual distributions.

      I don’t think they adjusted weighting for past voting.

    86. Smallaxe says:

      Neil Mackenzie says:
      15 September, 2016 at 12:26 pm
      “How do they Know what anyone’s” “sex education attainment” is?

      That’s an easy question to answer Neil,they just ask the Paedo’s at W/Minster.

      Peace,Love and Keep our Children Safe

    87. Proud Cybernat says:

      “It really is an extraordinary day that the Tory Prime Minister is more popular in Scotland than the SNP First Minister”

      As the saying goes, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

      All they have is a clearly skewed, contorted poll that helps to keep them deluded. They can believe their delusion if they want but in the wee small hours they will know the actual truth and that the actual truth will still be there the next day, and the next day, and… you get the idea.

    88. Capella says:

      BBC cover the Scottish six five minutes ago:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37376635

      Seems they think it is up to the BBC. Who to believe, the Daily mail or the BBC. Difficult.

      Thumbs down from Fiona Hyslop, thanks for link Nana.

    89. manandboy says:

      Thanks Nana for the link – and for all you do.

      http://scottishgovernment.presscentre.com/News/BBC-Charter-improves-but-must-go-further-2b19.aspx.

      This is calling a spade ‘a creative opportunity missed’, when ‘a spade’ was required. A creative opportunity missed by Fiona Hyslop, Culture Secretary, for some plain speaking.
      There are times when I think that the SG treat the UK Gov like they were giving us cuddly toys. ‘This is not the one I would have chosen, but it’s lovely anyway’ kinda thing.

    90. ben madigan says:

      @One_Scot who says:
      15 September, 2016 at 11:56 am
      ” the only way the Yoon media and British establishment can stop Independence is by preventing IndyRef2″.

      Totally agree and they are using misleading polls to do so. They are up to the same tricks in Northern ireland as far as regards a Border Poll on re-unifying ireland.

      See here for an anaysis of how polls and data are presented and note once again an ambiguous question in a BBC poll.
      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/09/09/post-brexit-polls-and-their-results/

    91. frogesque says:

      @ Capella 3.45

      Yep, its a case of the BBC has complete control over programming and content; but, if you want to keep your job you’ll do as your central masters require.

    92. Robert Louis says:

      O/T,

      From Rev Stu twiiter timeline.

      So, now it is official, that the BBC MUST be biased against Scotland’s interests, in its future coverage of Scottish affairs, and MUST be biased against Scottish independence, and the debates around it, under the terms of its new charter.

      We always knew the BBC was a blatantly biased propagandist puppet of Westminster rule over Scotland. The only change is that now it is official and in writing. England’s colonial broadcaster to the Scottish colony.

      See http://archive.is/ThvpP

      ““The draft charter requires the BBC to have a UK-wide approach and to support and promote the United Kingdom”

      This I think is very significant. I fully expect the SNP to say and do nothing as usual. Wouldn’t want to rock the boat. They could easily, for example, simply boycott the BBC, and call it out for the lying propagandist outfit it really is. They won’t.

    93. Andrew McLean says:

      heedtracker says:3:27

      do you know Heady this is what really pisses me off, the absolute shocking state of the opposition in Scotland, I give you Davidson, Scott Arthur, Murdo Fraser, Really? absolute buffoons with barely one working brain cell between them, kept alive by millions of pounds of Yoony loony propaganda. In the real world these nonentities would have been left out overnight in the snow years ago!

      Not one could cut the mustard elsewhere, even in England, thats why they use every dirty trick and lie, come the end of the union they are finished.

      Some time ago it was suggested in the press that Davidson could be the next PM, now that would be a laugh riot if made in jest, when in fact the imbeciles are trying to be serious! Personally would not put that person in charge of egg and spoon race, especially as she constantly bounces up and down like some demented Duracell Bunny who is simultaneously chewing a wasp!

    94. call me dave says:

      In the Herald.

      Scottish Six news programme plans are dead, Whitehall insiders confirm

      https://archive.is/XrPEz

      Iain Macwhirter: Time to stand up to May’s Brexit dictatorship

      https://archive.is/8jEDu

    95. heraldnomore says:

      A Scottish Six might have been needed a couple of decades ago, but not now.

      It’s a Scottish Broadcaster we need to aim for.

    96. orri says:

      The new charter simply mandates what we already knew. If they put it down in black and white they then officially set it against any and all independence movements in the UK. They also set it against or at least lessen any commitment to minority programming. Further to which it removes any pretence at independence as far as reporting the news goes. Requiring them to act in the interest of the UK set’s them the challenge of deciding what they think that interest is and thus excuses any bias those in charge hold.

      I’d imagine that nothing as blatant as the Mail will be in the charter. If it were then it’d put a severe dent in the BBC’s internal and international reputation as a news source. It wouldn’t matter if there was no perceptible change in their reporting either as if there were none it’d simply show that all their reporting to that point conformed with their mission as an extension of the government. On the other hand the only way to avoid those charges would be to ramp up the bias.

    97. galamcennalath says:

      It would be an improvement if the BBC simply reported no news whatsoever from Scotland. Better, we could get the regional London bulletins.

      Think of the advantages! No propaganda, no attacks on SG/SNP, no more ‘Scotland is shite’ message, no free political broadcasts for Unionists, AND soft NOs might actually then notice that Scotland gets a bum deal.

    98. Alex Clark says:

      @Mike

      It appears to me to be adjusted for age in line with Scottish age demographics. There are 4 age groups in the poll, 16-24; 25-34; 35-55 and 55+.

      According to Scottish government statistics the breakdown of these groups is:

      16-24 make up 14% of the population.
      25-34 make up 16%
      35-54 make up 33%
      and 55+ are a whopping 37%

      That’s why the older groups show twice as many weighted numbers of those polled.

      Breakdown by age can be found here:

      http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/population-estimates/mid-15-cor-12-13-14/15mype-cahb-tab1.pdf

      It’s still very unsatisfactory to break them down in such groups, in my view the grouping should represent similar sized populations else the lower populations have a bigger margin or error. You can be sure that there is method in that madness.

      It suits them to make it so.

    99. Jack Murphy says:

      “The draft charter requires the BBC to have a UK-wide approach and to support and promote the United Kingdom”.

      I’ll remember that the next time the BBC reports on the United Kingdom’s Smart Bombing of people in the Middle East.
      The BBC is a disgrace.

    100. Robert Louis says:

      Cactus at 315pm,

      I agree with you.

      One big step would be when such events are happening, that when people mention them, they simply put the details at the end of their posting. Too often I see people on here chatting about such events, which to the casual reader are a mystery. Indeed, it can make it seem like a bit of a private get-together.

      I personally get extremely frustrated when I see people having conversations on here, along the lines of ‘yeah should be good on sunday – yeah, see you there’. I think to myself, See what? where? when?

      Putting a post on twitter or facebook just doesn’t cut it – and that applies to the SNP too, since last weekends event in Edinburgh had b*gger all publicity. The SNP EASILY have the resources for such things, yet they don’t do it.

      So to take forward what you did;

      INDEPENDENCE RALLY THIS SUNDAY
      Glasgow Green
      Sunday 18th Sept.
      2pm onwards.

      Everybody welcome.

      I’d put a link here, but I haven’t got one.

      I think too many people involved in the indy movement think that everybody is on twitter/facebook, but the reality is, that most people are not. People may or may not think they should be, but that is neither here nor there. Complaining because people are not on a social media platform is hardly a good way to start encouraging folks who want to know more about indy.

      It’s the old marketeer slogan, repetition, repetition, repetition. There is a real pressing need for the indy movement (and bizarrely, the SNP) to get to grips with this.

    101. Cactus says:

      Aweright Proud Cybernat. Congrats on your successful ‘Peep the Beeb’ crowdfund.

      There’s still 2 days left and 10 names remaining to make that magic number.. remember it will help the food banks too.

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/peep-the-beeb#/

      Satisfaction guaranteed

    102. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Re Sunday (and other events):

      Repeat links from this morning…

      http://www.indyscot.info/

      http://www.indyscot.info/details.php?ref=498

    103. Andrew McLean says:

      heraldnomore says:4:24

      Absolutely, we are heartily sick of childish sops, like “oh you can have another hour of propaganda”, “Oh no you can’t,” the “vow, the “most devolved parliament in the world”, and the rest of the absolute lies and bullshit emanating from that cesspit of unionism called westminster.

      Long past time we not only had our own broadcaster, but got rid totally of that complete bunch of wasters, charlatans, crooks, shysters that whiter they call themselves are a bloody embarrassment to the Scottish Nation. A proud Nation that every day we fight to wrestle from the hands of our corrupt neighbouring political class!

      Carmichael is the festering embodiment of the disgust that our nation is heeld in by westminster

    104. Smallaxe says:

      Luigi says:
      15 September, 2016 at 2:38 pm
      “Tell you what, let’s have Nicola and Ruth walk down any busy street in Scotland and see who is most popular.”

      You’ll soon find out if Nicola steps on to the pavement!

      Peace Always

    105. One_Scot says:

      The BBC not wanting to reduce their brainwashing capacity over Scotland.

      If only there was some way we could put the BBC and this pitiful corrupt union behind us and move forward.

    106. Nana says:

      UK culture sec statement re the bbc charter and John Nicolson’s reply further down the page

      https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2016-09-15/debates/Hocdebdt20160915scrlgtghs_2Cstatementod20tibbc/BBC

    107. Cactus says:

      Hey Robert Louis at 4:34 pm

      I agree with you too.

      And most importantly..

      Everybody welcome!

      Satisfaction guaranteed!

    108. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Louis I get piss’d aff wie the many missed oppertunities by the Snp to nail the Westminster Gov, what are they frightened of being unpopular ffs.

    109. One_Scot says:

      ‘The BBC is not a public service broadcaster. It’s a Union service broadcaster.’

      I do like that.

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/09/15/the-union-service-broadcaster/

    110. ronnie anderson says:

      Im still up for a billboards on Bbc bias we need to make the public aware.

    111. Nana says:

      I don’t pay for bbc propaganda. I’m angry at the fact that our nation is stuck under the jackboot of Westminster propaganda. Getting fed a daily diet of crap and misery.

      But mainly I’m angry at the nicey nicey must not rock the boat attitude. Geez I’m sick of it, and believe me it takes a lot to get me wound up.

      I’ve got my questions ready to submit for the deputy leader hustings and this issue is at the top. No more nicey nicey.

    112. Smallaxe says:

      Brian Doonthetoon: says
      On Off Topic!

      “Most people, nowadays, have internet access so it would make sense to have a web site that anyone can access. The strange thing is, such a web site has existed since before the 2014 referendum.

      It’s a wee bit clunky to use but the info is there.

      http://www.indyscot.info/

      Use the arrows at left and right (in front of the Forth Bridge) to scroll through the events posted. Both HOF on Saturday and Yes Movement (Glasgow Green) on Sunday are featured. The info re Sunday is found by clicking on the ‘read more…’ link. Still showing a 12 noon start so hasn’t been updated to show 2pm.

      http://www.indyscot.info/details.php?ref=498

      This is the site that needs used and advertised, for people who will not use Facebook or Twitter.”

      Sorry I can’t put in proper link.

      Peace Always

    113. Silver19 says:

      OT: The UK Government says independence is greater threat than Brexit to cost of Irn-Bru : http://archive.is/l3zqC

      The unionist cabal are really a getting desperate.

    114. Smallaxe says:

      Don’t know how that happened but proper links.

      🙂

      Peace Always

    115. Cherry says:

      @Ronnie Anderson 4.48pm

      Look out for posts to make your wish come true. Can’t say more than that 😉

    116. Proud Cybernat says:

      Always wondered what USB stood for.

    117. Another Union Dividend says:

      UK Government’s statement on Scottish Six shows why broadcasting should be devolved although its time for a Scottish Broadcasting Corporation as its not just a Scottish Six that’s needed.

      Also I recently downloaded the Virgin Media Go Anywhere TV App and despite living in Edinburgh I can only get London regional news on BBC or ITV London news and no Scottish News despite it being listed as such when opening the App.

      Has anyone tackled Virgin Media on this discrimination against second class sweaty jocks?

    118. Paul larsen says:

      It’ll give the Tories and the red Tories a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside but more than half of Scotland or any sensible un-unionised person knows it’s BS.
      It really goes to show how terrified and hard up the unionists are when they try and make a David Cameron groupie like Davidson more popular than our first minister., geez what’s it gonny take to open the eyes of the unionist sheeple..

    119. Fran says:

      @ Nana

      Aye Nana, I’ve had another wee letter from the propaganda machine telling me I must reply to their letters or my address will go down as unlicensed and I will get a wee visit.

      I cancelled the “tax” 2 yrs ago and told them I don’t watch tv. They are persistent, I’ll give them that.

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      @McDuff says: 15 September, 2016 at 1:06 pm:
      ” – “the yoons are panicking“
      Where is the evidence for this.- “

      Is that a question, McDuff, or is it a statement of fact?

      I only ask as you did not use a question mark.

      If it was indeed a question there is ample evidence of abject panic in the Unionist ranks. For example their asinine braying and insistence that the Scottish Government are obsessed with independence is totally laughable. On any given day they are certain to have mentioned independence many more times than the Scottish Government has done so. This is a sure sign that the subject is far more on their minds than it is on the minds of the SG or the SNP. It thus seems the obsession is theirs.

      It indicates their daft claims that Nicola Sturgeon. our very popular First Minister, is so obsessed is actually a lot less obsessed with it than they are.

      ” … they have the entire MSM daily promoting Unionism and demonising independence.”

      Which would be a worry for the YES Movement, SNP or Scottish Government, except for the proven fact that fewer and fewer of the people of Scotland even bother to tune in, view or read their best efforts in ever increasing numbers. The BBC is watching some of their best viewed effort going to their competitors and the Dead Tree Press circulation figures are shrinking by the day.

      ” … Just jogging along aint going to get independence.
      Maybe I`m wrong and its just around the corner.”

      Aye! Maybe you are wrong and what proof do you have that the SNP are, “Just Jogging along”?

      Here is another very true old saying for you. “Don’t sort something that isn’t broken and, as far as I can see, whatever the SNP are doing it seems to be working quite well. The real polls, as opposed to doctored opinion polls, indicate that there is still a shift towards Scottish independence.

      Then we have the famous quote of what Napoleon said on the subject, “Never interrupt you enemy when he is making a mistake”.

      So just why should the SNP either interrupt or attack the unionists. or indeed the media, when the unionists and media are quite obviously making mistakes?

      If they were not making mistakes then why are circulation, viewing and listener figures in constant decline?

      I’m quite sure the British Nationalists would be delighted if some hot-headed independence supporter were to do something rash. I’m also quite sure that some of them have always been attempting to egg on such rashness. I’m glad to say that, to date, no one yet has.

    121. Training Day says:

      Of course, the BBC in ‘promoting’ the United Kingdom will continue to foist exclusively English news on us, dressing it up as ‘national’ . For the BBC, ‘British’ has always meant ‘English’, and always will.

      I wonder how the luvvies who cheer-led for a Scottish Six – execrable as that would have been – feel now?

    122. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Cherry I take it up every time I have a conversation with Msp’s Mp’s ect but as RL says dont rock the boat, that Politicking must have turned into a GENTEEL occupation

    123. Mike says:

      Hi Alex thank you for your informed breakdown.

      However this shows that at best the over 55s using this methodology would only be entitled to a portion of 37% of the total numbers asked when they are given over 50% consideration.
      Its more than enough to determine a desired rather than speculative result.
      And its consistent in many polls.
      I still see a collaboration between the Commissioners of polls and the pollsters themselves to obtain specific required results.
      The timing of it all is highly coincidental as well.
      The UK establishment never fails to bring out favourable polls at exactly the right time they are required on any subject and issue.
      The weighting methodology is wide open to all kinds of abuse and manipulations and makes polling totally unreliable even by those with the best of intentions and integrity let alone by those who have a personal stake in the outcome.

    124. Mike says:

      Hi Alex thank you for your informed breakdown.

      However this shows that at best the over 55s using this methodology would only be entitled to a portion of 37% of the total numbers asked when they are given over 50% consideration.
      Its more than enough to determine a desired rather than speculative result.
      And its consistent in many polls.
      I still see a collaboration between the Commissioners of polls and the pollsters themselves to obtain specific required results.
      The timing of it all is highly coincidental as well.
      The UK establishment never fails to bring out favourable polls at exactly the right time they are required on any subject and issue.
      The weighting methodology is wide open to all kinds of abuse and manipulations and makes polling totally unreliable even by those with the best of intentions and integrity let alone by those who have a personal stake in the outcome..

    125. Mike says:

      Oh Sorry I really didn’t mean to duplicate.

    126. Mike says:

      Oh I’m sorry I honestly didn’t mean to duplicate. I’m not waiting long enough for the posts to clear.

    127. Effijy says:

      Fat Boab Davidson would come second to Kim Jong-un
      in a straight laced Scottish opinion poll.

      Now that I say that, has anyone seen the two of them a room at the same time?

      They do have very similar personalities as well as looks?

      We should perhaps have a poll to rank which TV Channels, Radio Stations, and Newspapers top the league of deceit and distortion in favour of Westminster.

      My own poll shows STV creeping up on the BBC’s charter of dishonesty.

    128. heedtracker says:

      Andrew McLean says:
      15 September, 2016 at 4:20 pm
      heedtracker says:3:27

      do you know Heady this is what really pisses me off, the absolute shocking state of the opposition in Scotland,

      All that matters to these guys now is that Scotland is never actually run by the people of Scotland. Everything else is secondary to preventing it happening. You have to wonder why they detest even the concept so much, especially SLab deep thinkers like Dr NO! But as we now know from the last Scots GE, Dr NO style red tory Britats will vote tory, as SLab’s slide into third parry nothingness.

      There are a number of hair raising, jaw dropping aspects to the fact that SLab votes are now going tory but it probably feeds into the endless UKOK BBC propaganda dumped on us all.

      Wither the great 2014 devo-max The Vow fraud. Crash Gordon must laughing like a drain every time he tunes in to BBC vote NO Scotland.

    129. JLT says:

      The strange thing is …and I don’t believe I’ll be the only one here saying this, but …I don’t know of anyone; Unionist or Nationalist, that actually believes that either Ruth Davidson is doing a good job, or that the Scottish Tories should be running Scotland.

      I have heard no-one endorse either.

      Don’t get me wrong, when I have been canvassing, I have come across people who voted Tory in the Scottish Elections, but at no point when having a wee discussion at the doorsteps, do they ever state that they would like Ruth to be First Minister or even state that they want the Scottish Tories to run the country!

      In fact, my own personal conclusion is that there are many voters out there who will vote Scottish Conservative simply because they have a real hatred of Holyrood and also fear the perceived creeping threat of Scottish nationalism that will end their beloved Union. Simply put, many of these people would prefer to see the UK run from Westminster …and only Westminster! If they could, they would shutdown Holyrood in the morning and have the bulldozers and wrecking balls in there by lunchtime.

      But in another sense, such rejection of the Scottish political system therefore kind of makes a mockery of these IPSOS / YouGov / Charlatan polls (because that’s what most of them are) as in all reality, it does not mean that any of these voters really endorse the Scottish Tories or Ruth herself; it’s more of a protest vote against the whole Scottish political system itself. If anything, Ruth as a die-hard Unionist, not only appeals to these people because she is a good candidate for the concepts of Unionism, but she is also the candidate to vote for when it comes to rejecting the whole Scottish political system. When they see Ruth, they see the Union Jack, Unionism, the royal Family, Westminster, Empire…

      So overall, they’ll state that yes, they believe she is doing a good job from day to day by trying to highlight the benefits of Unionism, but overall, I believe many of these voters would prefer Scotland to be run 100% from Westminster. And if that is the case …then Ruth in one way, is also non-entity in their eyes.

    130. ronnie anderson says:

      Watching FM’s questions today online I noticed during Willie Rennie’s ? & the FM’s answer was repeated + a ? from a Tory in between then cut off & again repeated as if recorded,so much for livesteaming of Fm’s ?s 12.25/12.28 pm.

    131. galamcennalath says:

      The WM attitude to the BBC mirrors English thinking on most things.

      It’s a top down attitude where the BBC is there to support the state and the establishment. It should, of course, be there to provide information (and entertainment) to the populace. It should serve the people, not government.

      It’s a way of thinking which differentiates Scotland and England and attitudes of each nation’s public. There are other examples.

      For instance, in England police swear an oath to “well and truly serve the Queen”, in Scotland they swear to “faithfully discharge the duties of the office of constable”.

      The Claim of Right 1989 got it correct when even Unionists declared the sovereignty of the Scottish people. Of course in England, sovereignty lies at the top.

      The BBC cannot be considered a public service anywhere in these isles. However, in Scotland in particular, it makes no secret of being the exact opposite.

    132. One_Scot says:

      From listening to Fiona Hyslop regarding the BBC Charter, all I could visualise was the BBC holding up two fingers and saying, “and what are you gonna do about it”.

      Do you think they go home at night and piss themselves laughing at us.

    133. Capella says:

      Good article by Derek Bateman, angry about the high-handed dismissal of the Scottish Six:
      http://derekbateman.scot/2016/09/15/youll-have-had-your-news/

    134. dramfineday says:

      OT – well maybe. Probably it’s just me (part 2194).

      The STV website head-line (as opposed to the twitter one above) read “Ruth Davidson is more popular with Scots than Sturgeon”.

      It reminded me of the run in to the 2014 referendum when Alex Salmond simply appeared in the press (including the so called quality ones) and, on occasion, the TV as “Salmond”, as in “Salmond says” this, that or the other.

      A quick look at the internet and we have Prime Minster May says, or Theresa May says etc. So why is it that the media outlets here, in this case STV, seem incapable of adding the specific honorifics to the job, i.e., First Minister, Miss Sturgeon, Nicola Sturgeon (if introduced.) And in this case they can feel comfortable to add Ruth and omit Nicola. How does that work ?

      Now, they may all hate the SNP to the core fibres of their bodies, but the lack of respect given to the office holder is appalling.

      There, I feel better now, so it probably was me and my polite upbringing and nothing to do with disrespectful journalists.

    135. Struan says:

      Their running the story on stv at 6 surely something can be done about the blatant lie

    136. sinky says:

      STV news repeating misleading claim that Ruth Davidson is more popular thsn Nicola. Do these organisations not have researchers who look beyond press release headlines. ESTABLISHMENT RULES
      .

    137. Rock says:

      In the next WOS poll ask the simple question:

      Who do you like more, Nicola Sturgeon or Ruth Davidson?

      Then we will see who is more popular.

      I would predict 65% Nicola.

    138. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      “Derek Bateman, angry about the high-handed dismissal of the Scottish Six”

      He sounds absolutely furious! Not his usual measured style and plenty of expletives!

      What he says is spot on.

    139. Onwards says:

      If the new BBC Charter has any reference to ‘promoting’ the UK rather than reflecting UK news, then it has officially become a politicised state broadcaster.

      News reporting will be obliged to be biased against the SNP and the reporting of independence.

    140. Fran says:

      @ Andrew McLean says:
      15 September, 2016 at 4:20 pm
      heedtracker says:3:27
      do you know Heady this is what really pisses me off, the absolute shocking state of the opposition in Scotland, I give you Davidson, Scott Arthur, Murdo Fraser, Really? absolute buffoons with barely one working brain cell between them, kept alive by millions of pounds of Yoony loony propaganda. In the real world these nonentities would have been left out overnight in the snow years ago!

      If the yoons put up non-talented buffoons then it backs up their perspective that we are too stupid.

      Before Indy1 I talked to people who said they would like to see Scotland away from WM but once that happened who else would there be to vote for, “the SNP are doing a good job but they can’t keep churning out the talent like they have and who else is there to vote for?” That is an exact quote from someone I spoke to and it stuck in my mind.

      The reply I gave was that the decent people were getting kept out of the other parties because it didn’t suit the yoon agenda. The next time I speak to this person on the subject of ScotIndy, they have seen the calibre of MPs that were sent to WM at GE16 wearing the SNP badge but originally had previously supported other parties.

      I still think that the only way anyone found out about Labour for Independence, Conservatives for Independence, English for Independence, Business for Independence was to go to Independence sites, cos the meeja weren’t gonna put that out. WM didn’t want people in Scotland to know how broad the sphere of Indy ran in this country. It was just about Alic Salmin and his evil plans to break up “this great nation” just because he wanted to.

      I need to invest in a decent printer (don’t have 1 at all) and maybe go back and print some stuff off these sites and start leaving a few about.

      Sorry Andrew, I went on a bit of a rant there, but you did strike a cord.

    141. heedtracker says:

      Usual display of anti Scots media from Scottish hackdom, or why are the women that caused one jet divert not British women, or worse, English women, for sleaze bag Record hacks?

      Today’s Record

      http://archive.is/gDyxC

      Women booted off Monarch flight to Ibiza after ‘threatening and racially abusing passengers’ forcing captain to dial 999

      Tuesday Record front page,

      Drunken Scot who caused flight to be diverted in the … – Daily Record
      dailyrecord.co.uk › News › Scottish News › British Airways

      Drunken Scot who caused flight to be diverted in the US refuses to apologise for causing chaos. 06:00, 13 Sep 2016; Updated 06:51, 13 Sep 2016; By Sally …

      You can do this all day for sure, but its still creepy as fcuk to watch hacks like the Record crew in UKOK action.

    142. Rock says:

      Alex Clark,

      “and 55+ are a whopping 37%”

      I would say 30% are hardcore British Nationalists proud of the British Empire who prefer Davidson.

    143. sinky says:

      Disgraceful STV fails to highlight that Nicola has a 54% approval rating as leader of a party nine years into government. Unprecidented in any Western democracy

    144. gordoz says:

      It is such a pity we don’t have access to Freeview channels, which could be used for a 3rd station for Scotland.

      To represent a view common to those not for the Union. BBC has ran its course and must be driven out of business here in Scotland.

      As someone said its an utter disgrace of an institution; which clearly now will only represent the British side of any argument.

      Sound like Pravda TV ??

    145. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks to all here who have taken the trouble to analyse this “poll”.

      I knew an old SNP stalwart in the 70s who always said polls were there to influence voting behaviour and not to reflect it. In those days I thought him unduly cynical but no longer, not after the events of the last two years.

      Just about everything in Yoondom is irreparably corrupt so I don’t expect polls to be any different.

      Can I develop Luigi’s idea slightly and propose The Gallowgate Challenge where, the FM and Ruth Davidson walk southwards from Glasgow Cross to see who’s more popular? Come on Ruthie, give it a go!

      Independence: are we nearly there yet? All this crap is really wearing.

    146. Cal says:

      Can we please have an opinion poll from a company we can trust? How about a poll from a Scottish independence supporting company? Can you imagine the howls of derision from the unionists if such a thing we’re to be produced? Yet we are expected to meekly accept that a unionist polling company is above reproach. I don’t think so. You believe what you like but I’ve long since stopped believing the propaganda. Look around you. Trust your own eyes and ears and those of your friends and family. That is the only truly reliable guide to how things are developing. How many do you know have changed their mind in either direction? I know one who has moved from no to yes and another who has moved the other way because of the EU referendum. The rest have not changed their position since 2014. That’s my experience and that’s what I trust.

    147. twathater says:

      Jesus i fear for the Scottish electorate, just watching STV news with this shittttt report, naturally Ruth the Mooth shown with big bawface smile also wee willie winkie and Harvie, but naturally Nicola is shown with a frown,also just tae prove their unbiasness they had to include that the polls for indy2 have not moved significantly, i despair, have these pollsters been out in the real world or are they trolling lunatic asylums or care homes. Also Scottish opinion that Teresa Thatcher is doing a grand job FFS pollsters try asking at jobcentres or foodbanks then come back wi the results or better still just F Off with yir shite

    148. One_Scot says:

      It’s almost as if they are saying, “we’re just gonna keep F’cking you because you can’t do anything about it, and even if you could, you don’t have the balls”.

      And the annoying thing is, they’d probably be right.

    149. Tinto Chiel says:

      Sorry. Eastward, not southward from Glasgow X. Yoons frazzle my brain sometimes.

      Bags I the custard pie concession for Ruthie, btw.

    150. manandboy says:

      On the subject of Mrs May, and our future prospects, I saw her online in the Commons having a spat with Jeremy Corbyn. She looked, and sounded, like someone who is losing it.

      Brexit is looking more like soap every day, but with no script. They’re making it up as they go along!

      C’mon Jeremy!

    151. robertknight says:

      STV taking a leaf out the BBC’s Guide to Balanced Broadcasting, or to use the other title for such a document… “Spin to prove SNP-Bad every time”.

    152. heedtracker says:

      mike cassidy says:
      15 September, 2016 at 6:54 pm
      Who knew?

      Severin Carrell knows. Scottish 6 no go say our chums in the south, totally different spin from BBC Scotland radio teatime news. Well all of it is from that one newsroom. So no Scottish 6, says nice radio Scotland lady, Hinkley c triumph of Teresa May’s clever and brilliant caution, Labour says some bleh and that’s that. No mention of any SNP view at all, from BBC Scotland, who have just fcuked off a Scottish 6. In about three sentences, how to dominate the news with Britnat stuff. Unless SNP didn’t say anything to BBC Scotland newsroom/airbrushed out of teamGB anything now.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37376635

      UK Culture Secretary Karen Bradley says ‘Scottish Six’ is matter for BBC
      1 hour ago
      From the section Scotland politics

      The exact opposite of the how and who cancelled all of it.

    153. One_Scot says:

      That’s the thing with these Yoon manipulated polls, this is the kind of contaminated crap it spawns,

      https://twitter.com/jimkerr20/status/776481207097888769

    154. harry mcaye says:

      Just checking back on my notes in the months in the run up to the referendum, Ipsos Mori did a poll, again for STV, on 1st June 2014. The result? Yes:40% No:60% (and that was +4, -4) so today’s poll marks a huge improvement. I think Ipsos Mori were always one of the worst for Yes anyway.

    155. Wull says:

      I just wish the SNP would begin to talk up the European Union, pointing out in clear terms what a success it is and has been, and providing some proper information on how it works. The impression that is being given is that the Scottish government just wants to protect Scottish interests in regard to Europe, and does not really have remaining in Europe as its priority. That simply is not good enough. It makes Scotland no different from the Brexiteers who think they can have their cake and eat it. And no different from successive British governemnts who have seen the EU only as a trading organisation from which to draw profit, while putting as little as possible back in.

      This is not good enough. Where is the idealism? The issues are not simply those of trade, money and material advantage. Even in the unlikely event that the Brexit negotiators were able to get a good deal for the UK, that should not satisfy us. The fact is: we are a European nation, and we want to remain one. In the wake of the referendum result, and in line with their own avowed policy for the past forty years, which so many of us have fully supported, the SNP should be pumping the ‘Scotland in Europe’ message loud and clear. No ifs and buts – fully ‘in’, as full-fledged member.

      Instead, I hear nothing. Or, worse still, what sounds like the vague, meek whimper of a muted and self-centred pragmatism, amounting to: ‘if the UK gets a good economic deal, that will be good enough for us.’

      Well, it won’t be good enough for me. And, I hope, not good enough for many others as well.

      We know that not all SNP members are pro-European, but most surely are. It may be understandable that the SNP are scared of frightening the horses within their own ranks on the one hand, and of leaving themselves open to attack by their enemies on the other. But they do not have to be led by these concerns. It’s not horses – however wild – that lead people, but the other way round. And able politicians, who understand the art of persuasion, should surely have developed some horse-whispering skills.

      If the SNP are ever going to be the channel that leads us to independence they are going to have to take both these things – wild horses within and attack dogs without – by the scruff of the neck. They are going to have to confront them, even head-on. If they shy away from this it will be a failure of leadership. And leadership is what we expect from them.

      The fact is that the Scottish people voted for Scotland to remain a full European nation, within the European Union, and that is precisely what the SNP should be insisting upon. Not something les than that. Day in, day out – with no compromise. There is no point in claiming that the people are sovereign in Scotland, and then not insisting on what the people so clearly voted for.

      We surely have a right to expect the SNP to be logically consistent with their own long-held ideals and policy commitments. Up to now they always have been. So they mustn’t fail here, where consistency is needed more than ever. in order to trump the misplaced glee of the Brexiteers to our south.

      To turn round and say ‘all we really want from Europe is a good trade deal for Scotland, and not really to be a full part of the European project’, would be a slap in the face to the Scottish electorate. And a clear betrayal of what the SNP campaigned for not just during the referendum, but for years and decades beforehand.

      That kind of betrayal would turn us all – even the SNP itself – into ‘Brits’. Because that kind of self-serving pragmatism. that totally opportunist attitude bereft of every ideal, is the very thing which most of us in the independence movement hate about British politics.

      So, talk up Europe. Emphasise the European ideal, which is far from dead. Contrast it to the Brexit ideal of a rogue individual state that wants to play only by its own rules, subject to no one, without restraint, without a constitution, and without accountability. The kind of state that sees others only as opportunities to be exploited for one’s own profit, and which might just use violence to attain its ends.

      Surely we want out of this illusionary pirate ship which the Brexiteers have let loose on the waves the UK once thought it ruled, and which maybe it thinks it still can. We can wish it well, and send it on its way, hoping the ocean doesn’t swallow it up altogether. But surely, as it cuts itself adrift on the open sea, we don’t need to go down with it. We can’t, in fact, because the Scottish people already chose not to. Our Sothern friends are Leave-ing, we are Remain-ing.

      The European Union, whatever its flaws,is essentially a project for peace. Despite its occasional setbacks, and actual deficiencies, it has been immensely successful. We owe it our allegiance, and our future full participation in the project. So that we can play a full role in continuing it, and improving it. This is the big stage on which we wish to play, on which Scottish talent can display itself. Not for us the tiny ring of the travelling circus – and irrelevant side-show, or is it freak-show? – brought into existence by the ridiculous masquerading of Boris the Clown.

      The SNP / Scottish government should be affirming loud and clear that our ongoing cooperation with all the other member states, within the EU, is vital not just to our material well-being but also to our cultural self-respect and historical continuity.

      We do not sympathise in any way with the anti-foreigner attitudes and nostalgia for bygone imperial days that won the vote for Brexit in England and Wales.

      The difference, not least in attitude, needs to be emphasised.

      Instead of which those who should be leading us seem to be ignoring and downplaying that difference, rather than talking it up, building on the referendum result in Scotland.

      The signal that the SNP is currently putting out seems to be that Scotland could be satisfied with having a good realtionship with Europe from outside the EU. Maybe they don’t mean it, but that is the impression given. It is entirely lamentable, hopelessly counter-productive and a betrayal of what the Scottish people said when they voted to Remain.

      Many loaned the SNP their vote as the best possible means through which independence will be achieved. Well, we won’t win independence – and we won’t even deserve it – on the basis of pragmatism and calculation alone. Or on the basis of pure self-interest, or a crass materialism, which hopes for nothing other than comnfort, either. There has to be idealism as well, and a good big dose of it.

      We need to become independent for apurpose, and want it for good reasons, not bad. We want our country to be a decent country, making a worthwhile contribution to the world, and an agent of peace. Some of us no doubt used to be convinced that the UK was such a country, (despite its belligerence, as so recently manifested in Iraq, and Libyia) but now no longer. We are not and do not wish to be ‘Little Scotlanders’- leave that kind of thing to the Brexiteers. I don’t think many of us want an isolated Scotland, all alone in the world, ploughing our own wee parochial furrow. It is the Brexiteers who have a ‘separist’, even a ‘superior to all others’ complex, not, I hope, those of us who support Scottish independence.

      It is not being parochial that pushes us to claim our freedom from the Great (i.e. Tiny) Broken-Off-Union now controlled by the not-so-jolly Brexiteers. We claim it so as not to be confined. We need it so as to be able to play a real part in the much wider and larger world to which we in fact belong, the European Union. Playing our full part therein, as a modern country, in cooperation with our European partners, something that will simply never happen if we stay in the UK or allow ourselves to be ‘satisfied’ with whatever Brexit deal the Westminster Tories eventually broker. Europe is the part of the modern world of which we Scots are naturally a part, and where we can thrive and shine.

      Not England and Wales.

      Not an England and Wales in which, to all intents and purposes, we are now regarded as foreigners. And actually are such: that, moreover, not simply, and not primarily, by our own choice, but rather by the closure of the English-and-Welsh mind. A closure to which the Brexit vote gave clear and appalling witness. As Scots, for the most part, we are already more European than we are British. That is simply a fact, even if we do have our still lingering Unionists and Brexiteers …

      Although a small nation, we have more chance of playing a real part in Europe, and hence in the world, than we will ever have in the UK. In the past, maybe the UK was a vehicle through which Scots could make an impact on the world. But not now. And it won’t be in the future. Not now that it has cut itself loose, and sailed off over the horizon, into oblivion. As part of Euope Britain was still a big thing; outside it, it’s going to be nothing. Or, at least, of no great significance to anyone, not even to a declining USA for whom it has been playing the role of a fig-leaf.

      If you look at some of the most prominent people in Europe they don’t all come from the big nations in the Union: Juncker is from Luxemburg, his predecessor (most people on this site will have no time for him, but that is not the point) was from Portugal, and look at the number of Belgians who continue to play important roles. There is plenty of scope there for Scottish talent. Whereas, in the current UK … where are the Scots in the current UK? (And the few that are ‘there’ – the Mundells and Foxes of this world, not to mention the ghost of the ghastly Gove! – what kind of Scots are they? And what earthly use are they to any of the rest of us, or to anyone at all? A cause for shame and regret, not pride.)

      Perhaps I am too impatient, but I fear the SNP leadership – by not so far providing the leadership that is necessary on this key issue – is painting itself into a corner. One, moreover, from which it will have the greatest difficulty escaping.

      I hope I am wrong, but the Scottish Government seems more or less to have said it can’t move, it can’t even say anything, until it sees what the Brexit negotiations produce. By taking that view – acquiescing in a ‘let’s wait and see’ policy – it seems to me to make itself beholden to Mrs May’s government. It risks losing all possibility of taking the initiative itself. How can it ever lead in this matter if it keeps saying ‘we can’t move until she does’.

      And that gives the impression that we Scots could be satisfied with some kind of Brexit deal which overrides our vote to ‘Remain’. None of which is true. Or at least it shouldn’t be.

      It should be remembered that whatever the Brexit deal eventually is, no matter how bad it is for the UK and for Scotland, Mrs May (for whom I still have a certain respect) and her pals (for whom I have none) – most of all that highly intelligent fibber Boris Johnson, who will have to bear responsibility one day for this whole Brexit fiasco and the lies on which it was based – that lot, she and them, will all talk it up for all they are worth (which is in fact nothing, but the Great Brex-Brit public don’t seem to realise that). There will be a huge propaganda exercise aiming to convince everyone that the deal is great for Britain, and absolutely great for every part of Britain, including, maybe even especially, Scotland. The media will be full of this, and the SNP / Scottish Government will have a sair fecht on their hands not just to counter it, but even to get the minimum of air space and column inches in which to do so.

      It will not help the SNP if they have already indicated, as they seem to be doing now, that they would have been satisfied with a good outcome from the Brexit negotiations. In fact, the argument will have shifted from whether we want to remain a European nation to whether the deal is good enough for us or not. It will seem as if the issue is simply one of economic pragmatism when, in fact, much more is at stake than that.

      Besides trivialising the argument, seeing it from only the economic point of view will put the focus on short-term realities (and imponderables), eliminating any wider view or long-term vision. It will eradicate the simple fact that the Scottish people voted to Remain. The simple fact that, being sovereign in their own country, ‘Remain means Remain’ for Scotland. And it will mean that the Scottish people have no long-term future in Europe, even if they do one day become an independent nation. That will be a betrayal of our younger generation. As well as a betrayal of everything the SNP has stood for over the past forty years.

      So what can and should be done?

      As of now, the SNP / Scottish Government can and should be talking up, in clear and cinstant terms, the one Union which is really going to matter for us in the future, as a soon-to-be independent nation – the European Union. What Brexit does or does not achieve, it has to be said, is quite secondary to our commiutment to that (European) Union. This the Union above all other Unions which we want to be in, and to which we wish to contribute.

      The SG/SNP can say, and keep saying: ‘that’s the Union for us; that’s what we voted for; we are already part of it, and that is where we are staying’. It can insist that ‘the voters of England and Wales are entitled to have what they wanted, but they are not going to dominate us Scots, and they are not going to deprive us of our European citizenship rights against our will’.

      It can point out so much, indicating all that is good and fine and honourable about Europe, and the European ideal. It can educate the public, lauching a positive campaign to overcome the smears and misinformation about the EU with which the British media have been polluting the air for decades. Whatever the difficulties, there are real and enormous achievements in the EU project: let them ne known. And as for the governmental structures and how it all works: tell the truth about it, let people know, don’t keep them in ignorance, and let it be known too that these structures remain a work in progress. A progress to which we wish to contribute; we don’t want to wlak away, as the vote in Scotland clearly showed.

      This sort of thing needs to be said NOW, affirming Scotland as a European nation. It will be far too late, and no use at all to do it later on, as a reaction to something or other Mrs May and her boys say or do a year or two down the line, when the whole thing will have gone cold. Scots being and remnaining Europeans in a free and independent Scotland cannt be allowed to become an after-thought; it is and remains the key issue in the political landscape that has emerged from the Brexit vote.

      The leaders of the Scottish people should be pro-active, not re-active in this as in every other regard. Moreover, as they have been so often in the past. This is not the time to lose the initiative.

      It was for such leadership that so many pro-independence Scots loaned them their votes in 2015, another factor the SNP should be taking into account. I was not a lender – I have always voted SNP – but I am aware that loans can always be called in, especially if the borrower is not using them in the way intended, and given over to someone else who might be expected to do the job more effectively.

      Forgive my impatience, but I am a European Scot, and I fully intend to remain one. The SNP / Scottish Government need to respect the referendum result in Scotland just as much, and just as fully, as Mrs May is respecting it in England and Wales. And it needs to be seen, and heard, that they are respecting it. Never mind what the opinion polls are or are not showing, put your crystal ball speculations aside (they are always wrong anyway), overcome lingering fears and doubts and just do the one thing the SNP has been respected for up till now: stick by your principles. The referendum result in Scotland is the result for Scotland – full stop. The people are sovereign in Scotland – full stop. Neither the SNP nor the SG have any right to ignore, overlook or suppress what is the known and expressed will of the Scottish people: England and Wales may do what they want, but we are remaining in Europe. Come out and say it: please – SOMEBODY! – speak up for us!

    156. DerekM says:

      Jings you go away for a holiday and the Rev has another crazy right wing bird chasing him you need to let these girls down easy Rev they are tories so dont handle rejection well lol

      As for this poll cant say i am surprised as the blue tories will try to manipulate perception got to keep it looking like its a close call or they will not be able to rig it when indyref2 happens.

      I really think they are trying to push us into an early referendum as they are terrified that they might not get to run it after they invoke article 50.

    157. Bob Mack says:

      @Wulls.
      I agree with most of your points. I only hope the party conference coming up has many of similar views and put them forward. We are indeed fiddling whilst Rome burns. Time to unleash some attack rather than constantly defend.

    158. Robert Graham says:

      on STVs poll “MY ARSE” 80% of voters didn’t vote for the poisoned article who in their view tops the poll .
      I dont believe Kezia is that far down christ even below wullie the ulcer inducing spare at a wedding .
      OK who has the link to inform STV of one’s opinion of them ?

    159. dandy dons 1903 says:

      One_Scot
      @jimkerr20 on Twitter claims to have been a yes voter….aye right I can spot unionist shills a mile away! They always start off with the “But its time to move on” rubbish!

    160. North chiel says:

      Patently obvious now that due to the total collapse of the ” red Tories” in Scotland , the
      Unionist ” owned” media have decided that Ruth Davidson will now be ” backed to the hilt” in the battle to ” save the union” .The ongoing and never ending ” better together” propaganda output from the ” state broadcaster” and ” Tory owned” media outlets will be ” ramped up” over the coming months over Brexit and the Scottish context, and thus the battle lines will be firmly drawn if the FM concludes that the Brexit deal for Scotland ” falls short”. Of course , whatever the outcome of Brexit , the media and Ruth Davidson will claim that it is ” a great deal for Scotland” and any call by the Scottish Parliament for ” Indyref2 ” would be “totally irresponsible” .You can read them like a book.Cosequently, ” Union Jackie & co. will no longer be ” red rose” but ” blue rinse” ” Union Jackie”. Make no mistake ” Ermine becons ” for RD if she can ” see off ” Nicola, with ” just a little help from her media friends”.

    161. arthur thomson says:

      Yes, the Yoon supporting media have gone over the top yet again. No-one in their right mind actually thinks that Davidson is more popular than NS – nor remotely close to being. Fortunately, that will only play into our hand.

      The apparent exposure of the BBC as being publicly required to be institutionally biased is a plus. We no longer need to question it – and be accused of paranoia – just point it out regularly.

      The abandonment of the ‘Scottish Six’ is an error that will also play into our hand. Whatever direction WM went it was going to be a problem for them, it was just a question of which was the lesser of two evils. Now everyone in Scotland will continue to hear just how much of an utter shambles is evolving in rUK – in their NHS, Police, Schools, energy policies etc and will be able to make a comparison with the better services offered through the Scottish Government. Scots will also be kept fully informed of the billions being pumped into infrastructure in England and the obvious lack of money coming Scotland’s way.

      But for me the biggest plus at this time is the fact that the pro independence vote has hardened. This is the most important factor of all. Scotland will become independent when the majority of Scots are prepared to put their future on the line and take the big step. Even in this delusional yoon poll approximately half the population have indicated that they have reached this point and they have reached it in the face of a constant tirade of lies and spin. They are showing that they will not be brow beaten. This is a very new phenomenon in Scotland. The shackles are being thrown off. Fewer and fewer people are being deterred by the noise they make. NS and her team will now do the sensible thing and wait until there is clear, independent, evidence of majority commitment before seeking confirmation that the time is right to return to independence.

      Indyref2 has to be a formality, not a foolish gamble.

    162. Breeks says:

      This new BBC charter is slow moving dynamite.

      The BBC’s charter is to defend the Union of the united Kingdom, which places it diametrically opposed to the will and objective of Scotlands democratically elected government.

      That surely means the BBC cannot properly deliver news or political discourse in relation to Scottish politics and political affairs.

      They are not neutral, they are not impartial, but wholly compromised by an irrefuteable conflict of interest.

      Surely now the SNP has to tackle this issue and demand a neutral and impartial news broadcaster, which by the BBC’s own admission and charter, properly CANNOT be the BBC.

    163. North Chiel says:

      ” Wull 0716 post” just read one of the most relevant and poignant posts
      I have read on Wings for months. ” on the ball” and ” to the point” . Surely the time
      for ” compromise” with this Westminster ” Tory cabal” is fast running out over the possible denial
      of European citizenship for the people of Scotland . Teresa May has shown that she is much more concerned with the possible break up of the union than the “media smokescreen ” of Brexit outcomes. I do hope that the Scottish government eventually won’t ” play into her hands” by compromising our European citizenship.

    164. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      I have always thought the polls were used against Scottish Independence during the Indyref where You Gov was Kellner corrected to show indy was lagging behind and when looked like it was taking the lead it switched to get the panic effect.

      There have been a few You gov polls with indy still behind and I think it will be unlikely that they will ever be allowed to show a large lead for Yes.

      However, this is an extraordinary example of a supposed reputable polling company using different questions – not even skewed or leading questions – to fix a poll negative to the SNP.

      Polls are going to be heavily used as a propaganda tool to keep inyref2 at bay for as long as possible.

      It would interesting if Rev Stu could do a poll with a more independent company to find out some real answers. May be difficult?

      However – it does show the Unionist are terrified of indyref2 when the Brexit talks break down and the UK is cast adrift.

      Polls will have to used to maximum effect against us and to bolster the falling Unionist vote.

    165. Effijy says:

      STV announced the result of their dubious poll as though God had just sent it straight through to them.

      They started out with a very ambiguous set of questions, as per their objective, they proclaim the result as though this was the Final word on the matter, they put sad faces on our First Minister and Kez to add a bit of negative psychology, and a Big Beaming Smile on the Kim Jong-un lookalike, their new keep the Westminster Elite in Power Champion.

      STV, you are as pathetic as your programming, and the BBC.

      I have never known the quality of TV to be so bad as it is right now. I can’t believe that the BBC are showing Dad’s
      Army on a Saturday Night for literally the 100th time.
      We also have Ironside from the 1960’s, The Bilko Show and Gunsmoke from the 1950’s, Minder and Streets of San Francisco from the 1970’s.

      There should be no need for a license fee as we paid for these shows 50 years ago.

      PS BBC 2 are Showing England Ladies Football match with Estonia up here in Scotland? I can’t recall the last time a Scotland game appeared on terrestrial TV, and nor can I remember the Last England Football game of any sort that wasn’t shown on Westminster TV.

    166. Breeks says:

      Being neutral, even giving the SNP a fair hearing, places the BBC in breach of its Charter. If that isn’t a steady enough lever for the SNP to gain some purchase, then stand aside.

    167. Tam Jardine says:

      Wull

      Excellent post. I intend to remain an EU citizen and if necessary I will fight to do so.

      I am not party to SNP strategy but I would tear up my membership card if there is any compromise.

      We are being softened up for leaving the EU (not by the SNP i would add) and talk of the single market is both ridiculous (as there is no single market access without free movement, and brevity is all about ending free movement).

      It’s surreal at the moment- like the storm has passed and everything is okay. Everything is fucked and we need to become independent to protect our place in the EU immediately.

      I intend to stay and will turn against my government if they back peddle and take us out.

      Barricades have been manned for less. We are closer to our European friends than England now- we share their ideals. They don’t hate us which is a big deal for me.

      When was the last time a Scottish MP got a standing ovation in Westminster? We are at best barely tolerated- at worst treated like the scum of the earth.

      We have a chance now to build a successful, inspirational country- to reset and ditch the old neoliberalism that has plagued us. In the process we could save the EU- be a driving force for a renewed EU and in the process become the toast of the EU.

      I have no intention of leaving- my children deserve better than for our generation to let this happen.

      Rev Stu

      Wull’s post should be punted up top as it is the best comment posted on here in some time in my humble opinion.

    168. Surely the questions must relate; there is no use comparing apples with oranges. The two questions should have been….”Does Ruth Davidson work for the benefit of Scotland?” and the other “Does Nicola Sturgeon work for the benefit of Scotland?” Then we could compare like with like.

    169. Sinky says:

      An angry Derek Bateman well worth a read on Scottish Six

      http://derekbateman.scot/2016/09/15/youll-have-had-your-news/

      Hope Joanna Cherry gets this point over in BBC Question Time this evening albeit it might be edited out to comply with the new BBC Charter.

    170. Cactus says:

      What’s the chances the timing of this ‘poll’ being released today, to coincide with the independence rallies a happening this weekend in Yes Glasgow.

      53% of us said Aye!

      The party starts tomorrow..

    171. stonefree says:

      @ Takeour blueback 3:16 pm
      “Ruth Davidson is doing extremely well …. for the tank industry…. of course unless it’s an MOD supplier of Tank equipment, then you’re fooked all ways!”

      Not going awfully well for Penmans in Dumfries ,( 150 years old) still their MP and MSP will be stand up for the situation? or themselves

    172. Petra says:

      @ Robert Graham at 7:23pm ….. “Complain to STV.”

      Robert access STV online. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on contact.

      I’ve given up on complaining to the BBC and have been focusing on STV. I take note of what I read in The National / on here and then email them asking why they are not informing the Scots of oil finds, medical breakthroughs etc. Point out when they’re lying. Ask them why I’m having to go online to get up to date truthful information. I just wish thousands of others would bombard them too, especially taking into account that they are the BBC alternative in Scotland and that they are all going to up the (propaganda) ante over the next couple of years or so.

    173. Cadogan Enright says:

      How does one complain about standards of reporting at STV?

      Do you go straight to Ofcom or what?

    174. carjamtic says:

      At a remote location,north of Baku,south of Tbilisi,somewhere near the mountainous border,I find myself sitting down to a meal,in the secure,walled, accommodation (an old,rustic hotel).

      Working in oil and gas,can sometimes take you to the most unlikely locations,the team of eight was split into two groups.In my group,there was,three nationals,one of whom is a specialist off-road,4×4 driver/security,the other two nationals are specialist engineers,the other group is the same,plus an American.

      After a long day,travelling,working we are looking forward to our meal,conversation is convivial,the team is in good spirits,the food arrives,nice,local dish,little green leaved,parcels of rice,mixed with,I guessed meat,but seasoned beautifully,delicious.

      Someone pushes the TVs remote control,it burst into life,behind me,amazingly,I indentify the channel,it’s the BBC World News Channel,who would have believed it,in the middle of nowhere,this is a nice surprise.

      As if by magic and from nowhere,one of the local guys,produces a bottle of vodka,smiling he offers it round the table,we engage in light hearted discussions about the merits of whisky/vodka,we agree,they are both good and clink our glasses,a toast.

      The room falls silent,as I enter the twilight zone,brain kicks down,into slow motion,I struggle to compute what is happening….the silent,screaming voice in my head,demands to be told…what the fuck is going on here ?.

      In front of me,directly opposite,stands,one of the drivers,mouth frothing,eyes bulging,hands twitching,the handle of the knife,in his belt is suddenly in focus,his hands still twitching,now only faster,knife/hand/knife…WTF…..he is deciding.

      He’s screaming something,at the septic,(I don’t know what),he’s lost it,crazed expression,getting worse,his eyes are nearly popping now…..I recognise this,I know what is happening here,(being brought up in the east end of Glasgow during the height of gang warfare is good preparation for life,radar on,you know how quickly things can escalate,you immediately switch to high alert mode) I know,I need to be cool,the septic has no idea,somehow,he continued eating,watching the tv.

      From slow motion,my mind goes into hyper,superfast broadband speed…now fast,rewind….now playback,playbback in audio mode…tv on…sound of news….reporter talking…burning buildings…embassies…..cartoons…outrage….then the septic spoke….what did he say ?….yes it’s there,I heard him….”that’s a bit of an over-reaction” referring to the news story.

      He is still watching the tv,oblivious to what is happening,I slam down my empty drinks glass on the table,the crazy twitching man with the muderous face,shoots me a glance,”don’t listen to that bullshit” I offer,reassuringly,loudly.

      “What” he screams in reply…I force it….”it’s only the BBC,nobody takes them seriously,ffs,they know as much about unbiased news reporting,as those fucking American channels,Fox,CNN,they’re all fucking crap”…I can see it, in his eyes,he his coming back.

      I grab the bottle “same again” I stand up,go round the table filling everyone’s glass,”a toast….to the BBC,the stupid cunts and can you switch that shit tv off,or at least change the fucking channel”.

      The now seated,almost normal again,driver clinked his glass with one of his countrymen,muttering something under his breath,,he shot the septic another contemptuous look,before staring right at me,really staring,not with murder in mind,more of a quizzical,hmmm,you are one,lucky bastard,kind of stare,I gave him the customary, ‘man nod’,in acknowledgement of message received/understood.

      The rest of the trip although uneasy, was uneventful,almost boring,but that was the first time I cursed the BBC,I exaggerated the standard of their reporting,to get out of a very dangerous situation,at that time.

      Looking back,it could have been a prophecy and I have cursed the BBC many times since,more noticeably in recent times,as they are now,without any doubt,a joke,a fucking disgrace.

      The septic ?…..returned to his home on the prairie,blissfully unaware he had insulted his hosts and that the BBC being so shit,probably saved him,on the positive side,he did remind me a few times,he really did enjoy his meal.

    175. Robert Graham says:

      Thanks Petra – on it and i hope others do as well ,like you my inbox from the BBC is overflowing i am sure auto reject is working overtime at pacific Heights most nights because my replies have a certain sameness about them almost as if machine generated they wouldn’t do that would they ? ha ha

    176. Gary45% says:

      Wee bit O/T.
      Just seen The Occupation of the American Mind at my local Palestinian support group.
      I suggest everyone who follows WoS sees this film.
      Its about the way Israel controls and manipulates the US media, and it shows a similarity to how Westminster controls by propaganda Scotland, it was a real eye opener.
      I think it is a recent film, its narrated by Roger Waters,our group had a DVD copy.
      I think the SNP should get a look at it also.
      If you see it, you may come to the conclusion why the Scottish Tories were in Israel.

    177. Robert Louis says:

      Tam Jardine at 813pm, and Wull, at 716pm,

      I heartily agree with both. I too am dismayed at the way in which the SNP seem to be suggesting that ‘well, if we get a good brexit deal. then that’s ok’. IT IS NOT OK.

      I like many others voted to remain within the EU, not to have some form of ‘access to the single market’ which is NOT the same thing at all. I also agree, the SNP are rapidly becoming followers not leaders. They need to have more courage of their convictions, instead of constantly hanging on to see what Westminster does. As you rightly point out Neither Theresa May NOR the Scot Gov/NS have a mandate to take us out of the EU, no matter what deal is on the table.

      Tell me, unless the Scottish Government is planning on leaving the EU, just what exactly is the point of appointing Michael Russell to negotiate brexit for Scotland?? Of course Westminster will invite the Scot gov, but not for good reasons. London strategists will want the Scot Gov involved the whole way through, firstly to take any momentum out of the Scot gov, and secondly to make it near impossible for the Scot Gov to disagree a year from now. London will chew the SNP up, and spit them out. They are not our friends, and they never have been.

      Even a donkey can see that is what London is doing, and the SNP are like willing victims, playing into London’s game. It is not what I and other Scots elected them to do.

      It won’t do. I talked to many, many people at the time of the vote, and they all fully expect Nicola Sturgeon and Scot Gov to keep Scotland in the EU. They still do. The whole world does. They expect nothing less.

      Too much wishy washy talk, and far too much substitution of ‘access to the single market’ instead of remain in the EU, in comments and speeches from the SNP. They are very different things.

      So, let’s get on with it, Scot gov, keeping Scotland in the EU, telling Scots of the benefits of EU membership, demanding our democratic voice is heard. To reiterate, it is NOT OK for Theresa May to take Scotland out of the EU, and it most certainly is NOT alright for the SNP to do it either. Neither has a mandate to do so.

      As I said previously, I will wait to see what is said at the conference. It better be good, and it better re-affirm that the Scot gov is NOT taking Scotland out of the EU – regardless of any supposed ‘brexit deal’. No fudging, no spin. Not now, not ever.

      I do hope some high up in the SNP see and pay attention to these comments, because from what I have heard, they are the tip of the iceberg.

    178. Kevin Evans says:

      Visiting my pensioner friend in Inverness and he tells me “see on the news that’s that Davidson more popular than strugeon”.

      I told him aboot the pole and how the question asked didn’t really say that but I could see he didn’t understand what I was talking about.

      Just saying the media is working against us and does pretty well in its convincing lies.

    179. Valerie says:

      Sinky @ 8.26

      Derek Bateman really raging in that piece.

      Certainly drives the point home – we are shit on their shoe.

    180. Mark Richards says:

      Personally I know approx 40 yes/snp voters,10 no/labour(or ex labour) voters and yet I’ve still to meet someone who even remotely likes this person. My god,the unlimited funds is certainly an important part of twisting the minds of the “few sandwiches short” fraternity! Tories liked in Scotland!!! Maybe by tories living here,I grant you that,but not by Scots,simply ain’t possible,unless you belong to that certain category I mention above,or maybe a “born selfish” stuck-up loner ,this is a slim possibility too.STV hang your head in shame,if I was 21 again your windaes wid be gan in,I can assure ye oh that. You’re needin taught a lesson that’s the one thing I’m sure of at the moment.Paramount to treason,so it is.

    181. Grouse Beater says:

      Wull: “SOMEBODY! – speak up for us!

      I believe that’s exactly what the SNP are doing.

      The other bit is up to us to do, in every way we can. Democracy isn’t merely voting in an administration and then shouting at them.

    182. Cag-does-thinking says:

      O/T but I had a wee trip to the supermarket today and I used to go to Tesco but they then had that wee problem that the Saltires had to be replaced by Aprons as a result of complaints from Engerland. So I have been going to Morrisons as they had the Saltires on theirs and that will do me nicely. However the packaging has been changed in the very recent past and the Saltires have disappeared and worse still the producer origin is given as Perthshire UK. How many slaps in the face are we to get from so called “National” supermarkets that cannot bear to call Scotland by it’s name.

      They do have one brand of cheap strawberries called “Scottybrand” but I am furious and think that we shuld be monitoring this concerted effort to remove Scottish symbols from Scottish produce.

      The Rev’s shortbread in Big Ben tins seems somewhat prophetic as to how the supermarkets are behaving.

    183. Sandy says:

      I am satisfied that Ruthie is doing a good job ruining, sorry, running the tory party, Scotland.
      Long may she continue to make an ass of it.

    184. davidb says:

      @ comments regarding SNP/EU.

      Article 50 has not been triggered. The UK is presently still a member of the EU. The opinion polls are 50/50. We cannot risk trying again without the odds being in our favour of a win. The next chance will be the last chance.

      There is some opinion that Brexit will never happen. There is a possibility that Scotland will just be played by the EU. I regarded it a hubris how we all thought so highly of Mr Verhofstadt’s appointment. Our friends are only and alone ourselves and our diaspora.

      Until the UK position becomes known, and we know if it is going to happen, then it is not wise for Scotland to overplay its hand.

      I was in no doubt after the recent hustings for the depute, that the SNP intends to hold IR2. And they are determined to try to keep us in the EU. But a lot of people voted to be ruled by big brother 2 years ago. Unless and until they realise and repent or die out, we are in no position to demand anything not in Nicola’s power to deliver.

      Get out and campaign. Nobody is coming to this site undecided and looking for guidance. The people you need to persuade are watching the Ministry Of Truth and looking at the pictures in the Daily Unionist. I am a member of the SNP until the day my country is free or my last breath is drawn.

    185. Ken500 says:

      Scotland voted NO in the IndyRef is why the SNP has to negotiate. The SNP didn’t vote NO. They gave people the chance of a Referendum. It is because of Tory/Unionists liars like Davidson and their supporters that the SNP has to negotiate. Tory/Unionist who are determined to lie to destroy the world economy. Corrupt low lives.

      The Poll is farcical. Unelected Davidson and the rest of the 2nd rate rejected are despised by the majority in Scotland. The sight of them makes most folk sick. They could not top a poll for anything in Scotland except for lining their pockets illegally with public money and starving people to death. They are a despicable mess. STV are illegally breaking the broadcasting code. Publishing this nonsense.

    186. Ken500 says:

      All the Companies who supported NO In IndyRef. Their profits are falling and they are giving profits warnings, because of Westminster mismanagement of the economy. Now the Brexit mess to try and ruin the economy further. Some people never learn. They should have supported YES at least Scotland will still been a route to the EU markets. Lying hypocrites.

    187. Robert Graham says:

      Well it appears when complaining to STV it goes to general inquires otherwise known as “Auto reply then BIN” they dont have the user friendly BBC online form that still ends up yep you guessed it BIN , all avenues seem to be blocked TV Radio Print media you name it they own and control it , stickers for buses , bus shelters ,cars anywhere the public can see them might be the answer and i dont f/kn care if i am arrested the tories made sure there aren’t enough cells due to their efficiency measures ( cuts ) and they can’t lock up half the nation we if pushed can make this place ungovernable , we need to waken up the fools that just accept being pissed on , and think its rain .

    188. Fred says:

      @ Carjamtic, was the septic tanked up pal? Tongs Ya Bass! 🙂

    189. call me dave says:

      May expected to chair first Brexit meeting between London and Edinburgh

      http://archive.is/Hf4u7

    190. Petra says:

      I’ve been having a bit of a laugh at the poll garbage being promoted by STV. They’ve REALLY lost the plot if they think that the Scots can’t see right through this.

      80% of Scots didn’t vote for Davidson and I would imagine that many of the 20% that did can’t stick her either. Voted for Unionism not her. I’ve been having this vision of thousands of people in Scotland firing their haggis suppers (or caviar and toast) at the TV screen tonight and screaming “FFS give us a break.” At the end of the day even the most naive of Scottish numpties will know they’re being duped.

      ………………………..

      Great article from Iain MacWhirter in the Herald. ….”Theresa May using Royal prerogative’ to deal with Brexit. ………”No longer just about the EU, but about the nature of Parliamentary Democracy.”

      In other words one wee wummin who no one voted for is going to make one of the most important decisions ever for a whole Nation of people. And eh won’t be telling us what’s she’s doing as she goes along either. Sorry on my IPad and can’t post links. CallmeDave did at 4:20pm?

      …………………………

      Scottish Six programme’s just been smothered to death to ensure that no one has a brainstorm during the broadcasting of news and starts shouting about McCrone, Stolen Seas and so on. No seat for a Scottish representative on the main BBC board either. Better together?

      …………………………

      @ Nana at 4:45pm ……. ‘BBC Charter.’

      That was an interesting read Nana. 850 employed at Pacific Quay. I wonder how many of them are Scots? John Nicolson SNP (ex BBC) getting some good points across and ‘they’ then try to shut him up; wee sneaky Murray covertly getting his bit in about the SNP; Iain Paisley of N Antrim telling it like it is and Deirdre Brock and Alison Thewliss SNP being ‘dismissed’.

      The biggest laugh, farce in all of this, is when I read that Karen Bradley, the UK Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (big boss) who was chairing the meeting, say that she wished the BBC would make some programmes in Hadfield because it would attract more people to the area. In turn they could visit her cousins who own a shop there. If the situation in relation to Holyrood versus Westminster wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious.

      …………………………

      As to polling. Don’t forget how it more than likely influenced the outcome of the UK GE. Polls constantly making out that Labour had a good chance of winning, no doubt creating complacency, and deterring some from voting at all.

    191. Breeks says:

      Wull @7:16

      We are kindred. I agree with every word, and it is very uplifting to hear someone articulate so clearly precisely what I am thinking myself.

      I hope the right people see your comment and take every word on board.

    192. AlbertaScot says:

      Anyone catch the act of RuthToryBoy Eddie Mountain in FMQs today?

      Or Sir Edward Brian Stanford Mountain as I’m sure he likes to be called in his crazy world. He’s also apparently a Baronet. Or is that a Bayonet?

      There’s a very deep and valuable ore body to be mined there, folks.

      Oh, if Alex Salmond were still at Holyrood with that Upper Class Twit in the House.

      Just wind him up and turn him loose. He makes Jacob Rees Mogg sound sorta normal. I said sorta.

    193. Tam Jardine says:

      davidb

      This is the bit that doesn’t sit with me: “And they are determined to try to keep us in the EU.” We are staying in the EU is a completely different statement from “we are trying to stay in the EU”. I think that is what Wull is getting at.

      I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but your last paragraph appears to be about closing down discussion. Get out and campaign on this site is used as a shut the fuck up and let the party get on with the grown up stuff. I have had enough of that from the yoons to last a lifetime. No offence intended.

    194. One_Scot says:

      If they’re now letting us have it, something is amiss.

    195. Valerie says:

      davidb @ 10.00

      You beat me to it!

      For those down in the mouth about Indyref2, I want to endorse what davidb has said.

      Anyone at the Depute Leader hustings would be in no doubt whatsoever that timing and planning of the next referendum is a no 1 priority.

      However, it was also clear from these 4, very different individuals, that we must not squander this time and need to talk about preparation, how to organise, how to convince etc.

      They also confirmed what I have been banging on about – this is our final shot. Yes, maybe it will happen in another few decades, but this is the big one, circumstances will never be better than right now.

      A big focus is getting control of the councils next year. There is a perception that SNP don’t do local management, and they really want to change that.

      I think put simply, they want to convince, and demonstrate, they are the best, down south, at Holyrood and in your council.

    196. geeo says:

      Give me peace….

      Guest on stv nightly fairy stories from the National just basically endorsed the nonsensical leaders satisfaction poll.

      On our side !

      As for the other idiot on… “85% positive rating for Nicola Sturgeon with Yes voters, considerably less amongst No voters….”

      Then a wee slip by Rona….”emm, well…the FACTS…well…not the facts, but the poll is saying here..eh…..that independence support is up 3% here…”

      The pikey looking git from Ipsos mori cannot believe he has not been ridden harder than feckin Red Rum charging towards the ‘elbow’ in 1977….off button engaged…2 minutes of unbelievable pish !!!

    197. colinc says:

      Ruth D is doing a fantastic job of keeping the Tories out of Scotland, before any help from the electorate. If STV want to collaborate with this poll and endorse it’s ‘findings’ by publishing a distorted story, then they fall into the same category as the BBC. Unbelievable and without credibility. This will piss-off potential advertisers.

    198. yesindyref2 says:

      Fron the actual tables, 544 people are satisfied with Sturgeon, compared with 548 with Davidson, so it’s close.

      Thing is that 405 are dissatisfied with Sturgeon compared with 241 for Davidson. 21% don’t know with Davidson, and very likely don’t have a clue who she is. 5% don’t know with Sturgeon, just about everyone knows who she is.

    199. Sinky says:

      Question Time on irrevalant to Scotland grammar schools yet another reason for a Scottish TV channel

    200. Cherry says:

      That’s it blood pressure raised within minutes of
      Dimbledum opening his mouth. Completely on the aggressive towards Joanna Cherry. Should the SNP get to vote on English only laws…..

    201. scotspine says:

      Dimbleby is simply a boorish, arrogant, establishment prick.

    202. carjamtic says:

      Fred @ 10:16

      Aye buddy,we know that violence,is never the answer and when people ‘lose it’ for whatever reason,it can be pretty frightening.

      People or organisations,who fan the flames of people’s fears,encourage or promote prejudices,that result in violence, are IMO just has culpable,as the person/people who may end up ‘in the dock’,they should also be equally,held to account,but sadly,it appears,there is no one there to do it,bar us,calling them out (huge nod’s to WoS,the Rev,WGD,GB,DB…)..

      Propaganda being used as a ‘controlling’ tool,is as equally contemptable,we have all seen it,yessers are not,as some would claim a ‘tooled up gang’ looking for a fight,more like a ‘clued up,intelligent peaceful crowd’ looking for a conversation.

      The BBC and MSM do not wish to engage in that conversation,however and they are now finally coming clean,they are there to protect the yoonion,that is their primary,their only job.

      Any self respecting journalist employed there, should,IMO,walk away now….democracy in the UK…..died…officially… today….finally killed off by the the BBC charter and confirms what, we already know,we need Independance,we need to save democracy.

      #goodtotalk

    203. galamcennalath says:

      Siobhan Mcfadyen is back on the job …

      http://archive.is/PWTLG

      You can see her previous work at …
      http://journalisted.com/siobhan-mcfadyen?allarticles=yes
      … looks like her first anti-SG/SNP/Scotland article for the Express was on Thursday 28 July. Then frequently after that. All dodgy stuff.

      I guess she was commissioned by the Express to participate in its current shit stirring campaign against Scotland!

    204. Struan says:

      @ scotspine 11.14pm I agree completely question time is a disgrace dimbleby is a disrespectful twat

    205. HandandShrimp says:

      Never watch QT these days but I would agree that Dimbleby lacks whatever it was that Day had. Day may well have held partisan sentiments inside but Dimbleby wears them on his sleeve.

      My view of QT is best summed up in the words of Bob Dylan

      “nothing is revealed”
      Well, the moral of the story
      The moral of this song
      Is simply that one should never be
      Where one does not belong
      So when you see your neighbor carryin’ somethin’
      Help him with his load
      And don’t go mistaking Paradise
      For that Westminster* across the road

      * I may have taken liberties there 🙂

    206. geeo says:

      Kicking off on QT now….Our lass not involved …

      Anna Soubry calling John McDonnell a “nasty piece of work” amongst all other very horrible shit about how how labour apparently keep their female MP’s in constant fear of abuse …

      Dimbleby then tries to cut to Alistair Campbell…denying a right of reply.

      Joanna Cherry gets spoken over (very unsuccessfully) by John McDonnell in a desperate attempt to silence her very salient point about the state of labour, and how they are not a credible opposition, and then, when Joanna tries to chin him about his interruption point, Dimbleby refuses her a right to reply.

      Welcome to BBC tory TV ….!!

      Funny ol’ world…!

    207. HandandShrimp says:

      galamcennalath

      I think I saw somewhere that she claimed to have a flexible writing style. I think that is journalese for “I will lie anyway you want as long as you pay me”.

      She is a gift really 🙂

    208. Artyhetty says:

      They think that some kind of wand will suddenly magic angry ruthie into being First Minister material. No chance, or are they planning a coup!

      I was recently polled about various things, by Kantar whatever they are. Shopping stuff, what do you read and watch, (lol) and of course, politics, voting, indy ref views and voting etc. We live in a very middle class area and street, most people here, I’d say, 90%+ are unionists.
      Now the guy was very nice, when asked if we have internet, of course I said! Oh, you ‘d be surprised how many haven’t got internet, especially in the borders!

      So there you go, if they knock the doors in middle class areas, they will get the results they want. It seems strange that so many people, as the guy said, just do not use the internet.

      O/T
      In case anyone interested, my son is home! Yeah! Have to say, mostly really good all round at the hospital, staff were very busy, so much to do, but always helpful. I hand it to the people doing those jobs they are amazing. Only a few suggestions about a wee info leaflet on admission, on small matters. Not easy at all for anyone with these invisible but real learning difficulties, unless they have parental support etc.

      Even heard K.Dugdales voice on tv today, (so delighted to be away from that tv), FM questions, not sure N.Sturgeon was given any airtime, but I have to say, Dugdale’s voice is just awful, loud and distinctive, some could say, commanding, if they were on a different planet, and/or dyed in the wool labour supporters. Urgh.

      More time to be on WoS now…?

    209. Artyhetty says:

      question mark was meant to be a smiley face…

    210. Tam Jardine says:

      It is incredible watching Question Time- you can almost sense people deserting the labour party every time Alastair Campbell speaks tonight.

      I think members of the panel have forgotten about the audience.

      As a spectacle it is bizarre. We need to get out of the UK immediately. Joanna Cherry might as well be a visiting dignitary.

      She is excellent – they need to use her much more.

    211. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Nae telly here, but even going by WOS/Twitter, I can’t begin to imagine how folk like Joanna Cherry summon the patience to put up with sneering patronising fuds like Dimbleby.

      It’s worth reminding ourselves to be grateful for fellow Scots who are prepared to tolerate such treatment. More power to them all.

    212. geeo says:

      Express reader (prob,and kipper for sure) calling the SNP a “product of the (electoral) system”…..and such a system is “wrong and needs changed” !!

      Emmmm……duh, that’s why we want FPTP SCRAPPED.

      Defo kipper and express reader then…!

    213. Cactus says:

      Question Time finished, back to American Dad!

      Yeah geeo, I picked up on that “product of the system” comment aussi. Nice eh?

      “Oh boy i’ts swell to say, good morning GLA.”

      Good morning GLA.

      What you doing Sunday?

    214. Valerie says:

      Naked aggression on QT between Alistair Campbell and John McDonnell, a sight to behold.

      Soubry, her nasty old self, deflecting nicely by shouting anti semitism.

      Quentin Letts, acting like a caricature from Monty Python, the upper class twit.

      Joanna Cherry, pure class.

    215. geeo says:

      Joanna is brilliant, the ONLY person to mention THE biggest danger of being OUT of the EU, Financial service Passporting.

      Mentioning it allows Yes Campaigners to make the point that an indy Scotland Remaining IN the EU will potentially attract some of those extremely profitable FSP’s to Scotland…But ONLY if we vote Yes..

    216. heedtracker says:

      * I may have taken liberties there

      Joanna Cherry mp was really good, like watching someone sane in a comedy madhouse. At the end, Daily Heil’s nasty little thug Letts, tried shove his elbow in her face in what must a toryboy version of cold shouldering. But his silly tory arse must have been aching as she kicked it so hard, the Heil will be after her big style.

      Other news, Ruth Davidson is bigger than Jesus.

    217. yesindyref2 says:

      I daresay people can draw any conclusion they like from that Ipsos Mori Poll, but with Sturgeon on the screen and in the papers all the time, fighting to stay in the EU that’ll hack off a lot of Leave voters, and talking about Indy Ref 2 will hack off NO voters, so that likely explains the 40% dissatisfied vote.

      But in spite of that she has a 54% satisfied, which is more a potential YES vote than it would have been normally. And I daresay most of us have seen a good few YES activists complaining about Sturgeon because of her handling of IR2.

      So, tentatively, I’d say that’s a good result for the potential IR2. It could be an indicator of the leanings of the don’t knows in the Indy question in various polls. Hopefully they don’t know, but will vote YES.

    218. Smallaxe says:

      Wull:

      What a passionate,impressive and heart stirring post, I did not only read it,I heard it.Like all of us I feel and emphasise with your frustration.We are a proud and resolute people,tribal even, we are being traduced daily,constantly
      and embarrassed by people who are not fit to tie their own, far less our shoelaces.

      There shall be no compromise,no deal,nothing less than full EU
      membership will be acceptable to us.Brexit means Brexit to
      England and Wales,EU means EU to Scotland,that is what the
      majority of Sovereign Scots democratically voted for and is
      what we will demand of our elected representatives.

      Anything less than what we have chosen,anything less accepted
      by our Scottish Government would be looked upon as a betrayal
      of our trust and an affront to our dignity and will not be
      tolerated. Insurrection is not a word I use lightly as a pacifist and is not what I desire but all around me I hear people getting more and more dissolusioned by the seemingly
      apathetic attitude of some of our fellow countrymen.We will
      have to see positive movement towards our goal in the near future to calm the burning desire within.

      I can, like most people be patient and wait for change but I
      would like some sign from Holyrood, that I and others are not
      waiting in Vain.

    219. Does anybody here think we will ever be shown at 60% in the polls. Getalife! I get concerned about the naivety of many of our supporters. We are facing an establishment that actually put killers onto the streets of Northern Ireland, that told lies to bomb Libya back to the Middle ages, that invented utter shite to justify the carnage they caused in Iraq and they wont make sure the polls don’t ever favour us? And they wont fiddle the postal vote? Waken up.

      We have to get back on the front foot as soon as possible. The UK political scene at the moment is in meltdown. We should move now as we already have Teresa May in a clamp on Brexit.
      But if we wait we will lose as the present advantage we have will dissipate as they always do as politics settles into new realities.

      Everything our opponents are doing at the moment indicates that they are shitting themselves about us. I believe they believe that we will win the next referendum and would win it now.

      As a matter of interest some people have asked that we rebroadcast on http://www.argyllradio.co.uk Andy Anderson’s Defending Democracy interview we did last week about concerns over the postal ballot. We will do so. He’s on tomorrow night (7pm – 8pm) discussing the currency issue

    220. Robert Graham says:

      What ” product of the system ” meant to say was why do the jocks need all those MPs cluttering up our parliament when they dont want to be there , well said son we agree we dont want to be in your f/kn antiquated pig shed that we will be obliged to pay for .
      No offence meant c/u*t .

    221. Effijy says:

      geeo says:

      15 September, 2016 at 10:49 pm
      Give me peace….

      Guest on stv nightly fairy stories from the National just basically endorsed the nonsensical leaders satisfaction poll. On our side !

      Well Done Geeo. I only lasted 90 seconds.

      The National is a Trojan Horse without any doubt!

      It gives us Indy voters a false hope of having one little newspaper in this vast country, who might just put Scotland’s wellbeing before cash for Westminster.

      It brings in money to subsidise the mother paper, the main Blue Tory Rag, and keep it in circulation. Nothing more!

      Question Time became the Alister Campbell keep Labour Right Wing show tonight. Joanna Cherry, SNP, must had anything up to 3 minutes of Air-Time of the hour long show?

    222. Ken500 says:

      The Poll is nonsense. SNP/Nicola get 50% of the vote. Davidson/Tories get 20% of the vote. To be representative the 2 X Nicola popularity should be reflected in the Poll. Nicola’s score should be doubled.

      The Poll is ridiculous. They do not say who has been polled. They could have just walked the street getting anyone to give them the answer they wanted to achieve. Then disregarded the rest. Pure and utter nonsense. The total certainly is not represented of the registered voting pattern. Suspect.

      Like illegally looking at postal voting returns.

    223. Effijy at 12.33 Rubbish. That’s why Nicola Sturgeon contributed a great article to it this week. Because it’s a trojan horse!
      What did it have in it today? Who wrote some great articles in it today? Have you actually read it?

    224. Ken500 at 12.45

      The point is they didn’t ask a question that gave themt he answer they are trumpeting about.

    225. Valerie says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Agree with both your posts. Thought we might be past gurning about these polls.

      Effijy

      Why you doing Rocks job?

    226. Capella says:

      Notice the creeping Union Jacks – Andy Murray’s armbands for the Davis Cup:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-37377198

    227. Still Positive. says:

      Re Question Time.

      The women won it – especially with the audience.

      Pathetic to see McDonnell and Campbell squabbling on TV.

      Joanna Cherry was wonderful as usual in spite of the BBC.

      She is one of our National Treasures – up there with Oor Margo.

    228. Petra says:

      @ galamcennalath says at 11:26 pm …. ”Siobhan Mcfadyen is back on the job” …

      http://archive.is/PWTLG

      As she denounces Alex Salmond; Blair, Brown and no doubt Cameron (and ET AL X hundreds of political, parasitical leeches) will be commanding £150,000 an hour for a speech. No mention of that! No mention either of how much Alex donates to charity, especially in comparison to other politicians. No mention of the political sleazebags who have been / are molesting children FGS. What’s up with this woman? WOMAN? Report on this issue Siobhan if you want to make a name for yourself …. narcissist.

      At the end of the day Siobhan Mcfadyen IS an absolute disgrace as per what Stu stated previously. Get a life girly and stop spreading lies that culminatate in hatred and racism. We’re all on to you deary. You’re not just a disgrace you’re a very, very evil (or damaged) woman imo. Time to get psychological therapy / help to eliminate your childhood ‘ghosts’. In other words stop taking out / projecting your childhood hangups onto others.

    229. Capella says:

      I’ve heard that Dick Gaughan has had a stroke and is not able to play and sing as he used to. Hope he makes a full recovery. Here’s his excellent rendition of Floors o’ the Forest, a beautiful Scottish lament:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJIrAkJnS1I/T

    230. Petra says:

      As Mundell (et al .. such as Labour pal Ian Murray) would say Scotland has the most powerfully devolved Parliament in the World. Really?

      If you say so (pick and eat it (God knows WHAT ….. stomach churning) off your beard) mister. I’m all ears because my mind tells me that you are an out and out liar and my mouth has shut down because I’m ready to vomit.

      ………………

      WGD: ‘The Union service broadcaster.’

      …….. ”So screw yer Scottish Six BBC, we want an SBC. We want a Scottish Broadcasting Corporation that’s based in Scotland, funded by Scotland, broadcasts to Scotland, and is answerable to Scotland. We don’t want a Scottish Six. We want an SBC that broadcasts in English to the whole of Scotland. We want a Scots language TV service to sit alongside our existing Gaelic channel. And we want what the Catalans have got – we want a 24 hour, 7 day a week Scottish news channel.

      Catalonia has its own broadcasters. The Basque Country has its own. Galicia has its own. The 60,000 people of the Faroe Islands have their own public service broadcaster. The 30,000 Sámi speakers in the far north of Norway have their own dedicated broadcast service. Even the tiny autonomous territory of Gagauzia, 150000 people in the poorest corner of Moldova, the poorest country in Europe, on a scrap of land smaller than Ayrshire can have their own national broadcaster. And yet the 5 million people of Scotland, with our rich culture and ancient history and rich heritage and political distinctiveness, in what we’re always being told is one of the richest countries in the world, well we can make do with a half hour of murrderrs, fitba and wee cute kittens after the really important news about educational policy somewhere else that doesn’t affect us. That’s not a public service broadcaster. That’s taking the piss and making us pay to be pissed on.”……..

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/09/15/the-union-service-broadcaster/

    231. defo says:

      MSM proves the adage wrong. (with a big dollop of spin & shine)
      Apparently you can turn a sows ear into a silk purse !

      Never fear, the spell won’t last.
      This toom tabard will be exposed well before the locals. If the fundamental differences between policy north and south don’t quite do the trick, the amateur shrink in me says that the temper issues, and lack of any depth (default setting at branch manager level) will necesitate a career rethink.
      Something with straddling manly stuff in the remit. Probably.

    232. manandboy says:

      Like many, I am far from happy right now. But, Scotland is on the up while the UK is fighting for its life. The EU is on our side. We all need a little more patience. Should Independence take a bit longer then so be it.

      Let’s not forget, it is England and Wales who have got themselves in this enormous bother, not Scotland.

      The Labour Party in Scotland has still to come down to earth on Jeremy Corbyn, with how that plays out still to be resolved.

      The Tories are split down the middle. Mrs May is at odds with both the Lords and the Commons, and is not making a great impression as a PM. Westminster is in an absolute mess.

      So far, the EU has done nothing, but that will change very soon. EU patience with Mrs May is already wearing thin.

      Having to endure the daily onslaught of Unionist lies on TV and in the press is the hardest part, and I know in myself that the stress of all the lies in the media can find its way to being impatient with Nicola and critical of the Scottish Government. But endure we must, for Independence will not come without suffering on our part.

      We are at war, with an enemy pretending to be our protector, who uses lies for bullets and the media as its army. We are faced with a formidable foe, but we too have our strengths, as well as a formidable ally in the EU. But we are also confronted with a great deal of uncertainty. The battlefield is wreathed in smoke, including enemy smoke, which is obscuring our vision. To advance into such smoke would be a grave and obvious mistake. Instead, we must bide our time. The smoke will clear soon enough.

      There is an SNP Conference coming up, and a new Deputy leader still to be elected. A time surely to rally the troops in readiness for the next campaign. A campaign which is already on our doorstep. Much to do, but not yet.

      Timing could be everything and jumping the gun could see us lose the race altogether.

    233. TheItalianJob says:

      @manandboy at 6.17

      Good post and totally agree. We are in unprecedented charters waters right now and need to be smart and patient. We are under constant negative bombardment by the British Establishment and MSM and we need to be prepared for our need indyref against them.

      There is a lot of division appearing just now and also on when and how the next Indy ref will happen.

      Timing as you correctly say is important. There are a lot of unresolved issues out there regarding Brexit and once these become clearer thing will then slot into place.

    234. Onwards says:

      @Wulls

      Most of us want to remain EU citizens, but IMO the principle of independence comes first. Afterwards we can have another Scottish vote on the EU which would likely be won assuming we can join on much of the same terms.

      But fighting a second referendum on the basis of automatically rejoining the EU is fighting 2 battles at once.
      There would be fresh elections afterwards anyway.

      We have to remember that a significant minority of Scots voted to leave, and that England will still be our largest trading partner after independence.

      I reckon the SNP leadership see more chance of winning a second referendum towards the end of this Holyrood term, and don’t want to rush it. People still want some sort of clarity on whether the UK actually ends up leaving the EU and what sort of deal can be expected.

    235. AndyH says:

      Ultimately it boils back down to biding our time. Nothing drastic will happen until Brexit actually begins.

      Interestimg times ahead.

    236. AnTeallach says:

      OT I went to see the Cheviot,the Stag and the Black Black Oil last night (by Dundee Rep)at Edin Lyceum. Fantastic! Everyone should see this if possible.The issues raised are bang up to date. Really moving,inspirational and interactive.

      http://cheviottour.co.uk/tour-dates/

    237. cearc says:

      From FT. on.ft.com/2cNCeae

      ‘ Scotch whisky toasts first rise in export volumes in three years
      Strong demand from India and France boosts sector’

      ‘Scotch whisky accounts for a quarter of the value of Britain’s food and drinks exports. Of the £3.8bn of Scotch exported last year, more than two-thirds was to countries outside the EU.’

    238. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      Kettles on for coffee,just waiting on links, I may have a croissant with them this morning,European breakfast just to
      acclimatise myself.

      Peace,Love and lovely Links

    239. GailH says:

      Davidson is another Farage, a supposedly charismatic self-publicist that a compliant media can promote to create interest and therefore viewers and readers. The media likes people it can promote as a “story”. Like Farage I suspect she is an altogether more unpleasant character out of the public view.

    240. One_Scot says:

      From what I have read BBC Scotland are happy to go ahead with the Scottish Six.

      I bet they are, given that they have been told they are required by law to promote the UK.

      ‘The draft Royal Charter, and the accompanying framework agreement, published yesterday, “required the BBC to have a UK-wide approach and to support and promote the United Kingdom”.’

      Looks like I wont be renewing my BBC tax any time soon.

    241. TheItalianJob says:

      BBC Business on just now.

      Scotch is one of Britains biggest and most successful exports. One of Britains most important industries. Employees 40000 people mostly in Scotland. Exports up this year.12 new distilleries being opened this year.

      When anyone tells me “Ah the oil price is down, terrible news for the Scottish economy blah blah etc”. I immediately respond that the one industry that is never in decline in Scotland and is worth much more that oil is whisky exports and its associated revenues circa £2Bn/year.

      Scottish News reporting exports up for the first time since 2013 but exports could be hit by Brexit. Another major reason why Scotland needs to be Independent and in the EU.

    242. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:
      Great timing!

      Thank you.

      Peace Always

    243. Nana says:

      @Smallaxe

      Mmmmm fresh croissants, you are making me jealous.

    244. TheItalianJob says:

      @Nana

      Once again thanks for your daily and very relevant and informative links.

      I always look forward to them as does Smallaxe.

    245. Macart says:

      @ Manandboy and onwards

      Well said.

      On the poll: The whole point of Stu’s piece above is that numbers don’t lie. How the result has been presented/promoted and the ambiguity of the question asked is where the problem lies.

    246. Macart says:

      @Nana

      The Steven Erlanger piece for the NY Times has pretty much nailed it. 🙂

    247. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:
      re’ second link.

      Oh sargent is this the adventure you meant
      When I put my name down on the line
      All that talk of computers and sunshine and skis
      All I’m asking you sargent where’s mine

      I’ve a brother in Glasgow with long curly hair
      When I joined up he said I was daft
      He’s says shooting strangers just is’na his game
      That brother of my is’na saft
      But I can put up with most things I’ve done in my time
      I can even put up with the pains
      But what do you do with a gun in your hand
      When you’re faced with a hundred odd wanes

      Billy Connelly.

      Peace Always

    248. Robert Graham says:

      listened to a series of 3 podcasts by Michael Greenwell of Scot Indi Podcast ,its No 135 featuring the Editor of the National “maybe Nana can post a link” ? .
      Subscribers to the national should have a listen it’s very illuminating , his lack of real criticism or indeed knowledge of what the BBC get up to is well disappointing , and his defence of Journalists in Scotland is frankly baffling , possibly because of his probable Friendship with most of them , when asked if backing for independence was purely a commercial decision by the Herald on Sunday and the subsequent launch of the Independent , less than forthcoming was my take on his reply , if you think by supporting the Herald Group in this way is a good idea well carry on personally i would keep them at arm’s length and not count on support from that organization .

    249. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:
      Petitions signed!

      Peace Always

    250. Graeme says:

      regarding the BBC’s new charter, it seems to me all they’re doing is setting in stone what they’ve been doing already behind a veil of supposed impartiality. this charter means they’ve lifted that veil and exposed the true face of the BBC

      At least now there is no ambiguity, by their own admission they can no longer argue they’re anything but the propaganda wing of the British state and even though that’s something we’ve all known for a long time it’s not so evident to many Scots who still trust the BBC and believe the lies they pedal

      If Indy support is sitting around 50% then the BBC is not fit for purpose in Scotland, we need an independent impartial broadcaster and we need it bad, we need it now.

      Graeme

    251. Robert Louis says:

      I get what some above are saying regarding patience, but if people like NS are not regularly making the case for Scottish independence, it will eventually be forgotten. Make no mistake, right now, Westminster behind the scenes will have a whole team of people in Westminster working day in, day out, to thwart Scottish independence. This is why we are now seeing union jacks on everything, it is to alter public perceptions. gradually over time. It is why we have so many TV programmes about ‘britain’s best…’, or ‘the best British…’. Slowly, drip, drip, drip.

      In addition, it is simply no good, to state that it is up to us to make the case for independence. Such a movement needs leadership, something only the SNP can do, yet they currently are not.

      Tell me, when was the last time you heard the FM articulate the case for independence? The polls won’t change all by themselves. In addition, there will be a growing perception (rightly or wrongly) that well, it’s pretty clear independence won’t happen, even the SNP aren’t bothering. Most people do NOT follow politics in the way people on here do. To people outside the political bubble, such perceptions are their reality.

      In short, if we are not attacking, we are defending. Right now, and since 2014 all we have done is defend, except for a brief interval following the brexit vote, where NS took the initiative, but that has stopped. All I hear is, Let’s wait until the next Scottish election, let’s wait until the Westminster election, and now we have oh, we need to wait until the council elections, then let’s see if we get a good brexit deal.

      The polls in favour of indy will never increase until such time as their is an actual campaign with a referendum date set. Thinking otherwise, is just head in the clouds wishful thinking. It needs leadership, which is what Salmond did. And just to re-iterate my main point, ‘access to the single market’ is NOT EU membership. It would be nice if the SNP leadership, MP’s and MSP’s stopped trying to conflate both, as they are very different beasties.

      I will wait until the conference, where I would be happy to hear an unequivocal commitment to keeping Scotland in the EU, and not just ‘access to the single market’.

      There is no law I know of which states that only two referendums are allowed. Sadly, however, I see people repeating such a mantra, as though it is carved in stone. It is a unionist narrative, and sadly some seem to have swallowed it. If you want your country to become independent, and free of London rule, you do not merely give up and say, oh well, 2 attempts, that’s that then. Challenge convention. This is a war (non-military, just in case the Express wets itself). London does not play by any conventions, and neither should we.

    252. Smallaxe says:

      SOURCE: FREE THOUGHT PROJECT
      Govt-Investigators-Apologize-for-Deleting-Evidence-of-Paedophile-Rings

      “London, UK — The Independent Inquiry Into Child Sex Abuse (IICSA) apologized this week after vital testimony from victims of child sexual abuse was “instantly and permanently deleted” from their servers. The agency said that the loss of data was due to a technical malfunction, which dumped an untold number of testimonies that were submitted to their official website. The agency now claims that there was no security breach, and that while the testimonies were lost, the privacy of the victims is not at risk.”

    253. Robert Louis says:

      Graeme at 0858 am,

      I totally agree. We now have in writing what was always known about the BBC’s role in Scotland. It exists to marginalise and patronise Scottish culture, always through the Westminster/London viewpoint.

      In addition, I also agree with others, we do not need a ‘scottish six’, we need a Scottish broadcaster, answering to the people of Scotland, and NOT London. Having a national broadcaster is normal all over the world, what we have in Scotland is colonial broadcasting.

      Scotland will never truly flourish, until such times as the English run and controlled BBC is literally run out of town.

    254. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      “London the centre of the yooniverse”

      Thanks. An interesting read. Sounds as if no matter what form Brexit takes it is going to erode London’s financial status. The result may be bad, or it may be absolutely awful!

      I believe that about a tenth of the entire UK tax take comes from London’s financial markets. Ouch.

    255. annie says:

      Re Ruth Davidson’s rise in popularity, perhaps the MSM are playing their part. I just clicked on BBC News website for Scotland, headline was something like Hollyrood leaders dress in pink, despite 5 leaders lining up together the photo only had Ruth and part of Patrick Harvey in it.

    256. Nana says:

      @TheItalianJob You are very welcome.

      @Robert Graham

      Went looking for the link Robert, and apologies I did not reply to you yesterday missed your post due to updating my computer.

      I remember how excited I was posting the link re the national being published, but then I was also excited when the sunday herald decided to back independence. I feel there have been missed opportunities for some hard hitting headlines by the national which is after all the first thing you see and what can make an impression even on folks who don’t buy.

      But right now it’s all we have that can be seen on newsstands.

      As to Mr Walker perhaps there is a reticence with some journalists unwilling to criticise their profession and fellow journalists.

      Here’s the podcast for those who missed it

      https://michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/2016/09/13/the-scottish-independence-podcast-135-richard-walker-of-the-national/

    257. John Young says:

      This Hansard extract does not convey the laughter and jeering from the Tories during this exchange yesterday

      Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)
      On behalf of the Scottish National party, may I welcome the Secretary of State and his new Ministers to their places?

      Was the Minister aware that the very first act of the SNP Scottish Government was to introduce the Abolition of Bridge Tolls (Scotland) Act 2008, which means that, in Scotland, there is no need for discounts? Tolls are gone, saving commuters around Scotland hundreds of pounds a year and boosting tourism and the economy. Has he studied that model for his own use?

      Mr Hayes
      I will give a mercifully short answer: Scottish independence would mean that the SNP Government could not afford that anymore.

      Drew Hendry
      Of course, there will be no tolls either on the new £3 billion dual carriageway of the A9. On the subject of the A9, will the Minister congratulate the Scottish Government on the safety cameras on the non-dualled section between Perth and Inverness, which was unbelievably opposed by one of the Minister’s former colleagues, Sir Daniel Alexander? Those cameras have seen speeding drop from 43% to 10% since 2012, thereby reducing death and injuries. Will the Minister consider that matter?

      Mr Hayes
      Of course we always give consideration to those kind of matters and it is important that we give credit where credit is due. When I have worked out, following the hon. Gentleman’s rather long question, whether credit is due, I will decide whether or not to give it.

    258. galamcennalath says:

      Robert Louis says:

      “what we have in Scotland is colonial broadcasting”

      Very true. With all the irrelevant news and political content from ‘the home country’, and our own equivalent ignored, that is exactly how it seems.

      Think, “This is the BBC World news for East Africa.”, circa 1960.

    259. Sunniva says:

      I totally agree with Robert Louis that the sainted Nicola is defending, not attacking, and that support for independence will not increase unless the case is constantly being made for it and the union attacked.

      Support for indy never increased whilst ‘safe pair of hands’ Swinney was leader. Competant managerialism may consolidate the party and earn a small crumb of begrudged respect from nawbags, (both are positive achievements) but it will not substantially shift opinion on the union.

      Salmond was far better at getting media attention. The media could not ignore him because he always had soundbite value, his humour and wit, not to say his provocation, couldn’t be ignored.

      There is of course more than one way to skin a cat. Salmond had his talents, Nicola has hers.

      But my point is that she needs to find some way of attacking the union and promoting indy and getting into the public eye.

    260. Brenda Steele says:

      O/T New paper on the shelves this morning.

      The New European

      At £2 a bit steep but…………..

      Would be interested to know just exactly who is behind it.

    261. galamcennalath says:

      John Young says:

      “laughter and jeering from the Tories during this exchange yesterday”

      … Hayes is an arrogant patronising barstard!

      When Scotland departs, Brexit bites, and companies relocate from rUK, he and his posh chums will have a lot less to laugh and jeer about!

    262. Dorothy Devine says:

      I was feeling a bit down yesterday but while walking to the hairdresser in Crow Road a lovely , cheering sight hove into view – a large white camper van with INDYREF2 painted boldly upon it.

      Made me smile – nay ,grin broadly!

    263. Roboscot says:

      Nicola Sturgeon can’t actively campaign for independence at the moment because she is seeking a means of keeping Scotland in the EU/single market short of independence. Only when these avenues have been exhausted can she turn to a second referendum. If she campaigned strongly for independence now she would be accused of simply going through the motions on those alternatives. This is at least partly why Ruth Davidson keeps banging on about Nicola wanting a second referendum.

    264. Sunniva says:

      @ John. Excellent clip. But Kenny Mackintosh appeared to dismiss the point made by the SNP that Moothie had misled parliament during FMQs by quoting from a report on 94 hospitals, only 3 of which were in Scotland. He said that this was a debating point, not a point of order.

    265. Nana says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Seen two similar vehicles just yesterday. One was a large white van with saltires on the side and wording I could not read as it was moving too fast. The other a blue car covered in large stickers with small saltires flying from aerials on the roof. Fair cheered me up.

      Plus I heard from a friend her daughter’s workplace are discussing indy with very positive results. May be due to a couple of wee black books and leaflets passed to her mother [can’t think who by]

    266. Smallaxe says:

      SNP:
      I am a member of the SNP but I am starting to get disillusioned by their lack of commitment (seemingly) with us
      staying in the EU. I do not want to hear about ways of staying
      in the single market by any other means than full and unequivocal membership of the European Union.

      We Scots are a proud and resolute people,tribal even,we have
      been subjected to W/Minsters minions such as the BBC and MSM
      traducing,insulting and ignoring us and our elected representatives constantly day after day.

      Brexit means Brexit for England and Wales,EU means EU for Scotland,Scots and Scots by choice.No deals and No half measures will be tolerated.Every day I hear people saying that
      they are unsure when if ever will the SNP stand up to the embarrassing and deplorable slight’s against our Nation.

      People in Europe and elsewhere will start to laugh instead of siding with us if this state of affairs is allowed to continue,we must be given an assurance from the Scottish Government that what we democratically voted for regarding the
      EU is what they are fighting to achieve.No more No less.

      Peace Always ALLWAYS

    267. Sunniva says:

      @RoboScot. Second referendums are not the issue, making the case for indy and attacking the union by showing just how we are constrained by it, is. Sturgeon should be losing no opportunity to attack the union and the Tory policies that stem from it. She has an excellent opponent in the form of Moothie to make this point. The nawbags need shaking and stirred, not placated.

    268. Anagach says:


      Dave McEwan Hill says:

      We are facing an establishment that actually put killers onto the streets of Northern Ireland, that told lies to bomb Libya back to the Middle ages, that invented utter shite to justify the carnage they caused in Iraq and they wont make sure the polls don’t ever favour us? And they wont fiddle the postal vote? Waken up.

      There is still, and will remain, a general disbelief that the tactics/realpolitik the British state uses on “foreigners” will not be used inside the UK.

    269. galamcennalath says:

      Roboscot says:

      “Nicola Sturgeon … is seeking a means of keeping Scotland in the EU/single market short of independence”

      Exactly. All avenues must be explored. All possibilities must be exhausted. There must be no alternative but to proceed to Indy.

      It was the presence of alternatives which lost us Indyref1.

      The choice has to be a crystal clear Indy versus catastrophe.

      IMO I just can’t see how staying in the ESM will appease Brexiteers. Once that becomes clear then we will see IndyRef2 being pursued with a vengeance. And vengeance for the betrayal since IndyRef1 it will be.

    270. Desimond says:

      Are people really moaning on here that Leader of the SNP , First Minister Nicola Sturgeon “should get back to her day job” of concentrating on Independence and Independence alone.

      Has this journey of 1000 small steps taught us nothing?

      Did People once say “Hoi Moses, thanks for raising our bowed slave heads up and all that mate but this wee desert trek is taking a while is it no?”

    271. galamcennalath says:

      Smallaxe says:

      “I am a member of the SNP but I am starting to get disillusioned by their lack of commitment (seemingly) with us staying in the EU.”

      Have you attended any of deputy hustings recently? I was left with a clear view that IndyRef2 is coming because the gulf between where the SG/SNP and WM will stand on an EU deal will be too wide.

      Nicola’s five red line points. There is no way WM will accommodate that.

      However, when WM haven’t even given a clue (or have a clue) about where they stand, the judgement that there is no solution cannot be made.

      We will lose again if we jump the gun.

    272. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Dorothy Devine Was the Campervan Yessie ( harry samh) the CONMAN, he’ll be gon the Craw Rd on his next appearance at Glasgow Sheriff Court.

      Dont join any F/B pages of Harry’s ,he looking for 100 people in each group ,probibley to sell his Tat to unwary Yes movement

    273. Flower of Scotland says:

      I agree Desimond! What’s going on folks? Some playing divide and rule here. Nicola Sturgeon is the best leader Scotland has had in a long time and is our best bet for Independence.

      Get behind her or do exactly what the British State wants, and that is to throw seeds of suspicion around and fight amongst ourselves.

      Very disappointed in a few of you!

    274. Struan says:

      I’ve also been a member for the last couple of years it’s in the blood my father was a member of the 79 group he was an ultra proud member of the snp & dragged my ass to the conference every year as a child. He’ll be spinning in his grave with the way the snp arnt taking the gloves off.

      I want to be proud of my party and leader but I too feel disillusioned and have thought of ending my membership right now the only reason I’m not is coz I’m scared of my dad’s big toe eventually sinking into my arse the next time we meet but I’m tired of watching the Yoons getting away with so much bile without some comeback on issues that matter to my family.

    275. Lenny Hartley says:

      Small axe SOURCE: FREE THOUGHT PROJECT
      Govt-Investigators-Apologize-for-Deleting-Evidence-of-Paedophile-Rings

      “London, UK — The Independent Inquiry Into Child Sex Abuse (IICSA) apologized this week after vital testimony from victims of child sexual abuse was “instantly and permanently deleted” from their servers. The agency said that the loss of data was due to a technical malfunction, which dumped an untold number of testimonies that were submitted to their official website. The agency now claims that there was no security breach, and that while the testimonies were lost, the privacy of the victims is not at risk.”

      Do they think our heads zip up the back? All data on servers will be backed on a daily basis, furthermore all servers will have Raid Arrays which means that data is stored on separate disks as it is written to disk. (Although if the raid controller fails you can lose data. The thing is that first off all there will be written testimonies , the data will be backed up. (I used to do a daily backup of data that had been changed since last backup and then a weekly backup of all the data on the disk.)
      There is no way unless it’s deliberate that this data has been lost. We cannot allow them to get away with this, write to your MP demanding to know what action is being taken to either retrieve the data or ensure criminal proceedings are being brought against those responsible.

      Share on your fb page, this cannot be allowed to be swept under the carpet.

    276. Macart says:

      The SNP are doing what they promised to do. They are upholding both the democratic will of the people and the democratic process within Scotland and the UK.

      That’s all anyone can ask of a government with any integrity.

      What they want as a party comes second to the adherance to democratic principle.

      They BELIEVE in popular sovereignty, the will of the people. They will defend that belief and principle before all else, for without it there will be no eventual settled independence. If by some twist of fate, independence was achieved by circumnavigating popular will and mandate, would it be worth having? Would a government who would impose their will on others be a government worth having?

      If they seem to be dragging their heels or not jollying along at a pace many would consider more appropriate. If they aren’t as forceful as some would prefer, or as insistent in their promotion of independence, bringing it up on a daily basis, then it may be its because they are doing the day job after all. Its certainly frustrating the bejebus out of the opposition leadership.

      But if you want an example of a parliamentary sovereignty where ultimate power lies. Where parliamentarians make your decisions for you and basically stuff life changing legislation down your neck whether you like it or not, then look south of the border for how that works out eventually.

      Look at what has become of their electorate in the face of their politics and manipulation.

      Not very pleasant viewing, is it?

    277. Ken500 says:

      People who criticise the SNP are doing the Unionists work for them. They are cutting off their nose to fight their face instead of fighting against the Unionists liars and their associates.

    278. Papadox says:

      Slowly slowly catchee monkey! Sometimes I get very angry and frustrated but you can’t argue with a winner. INDEPENDENCE is the goal, that’s all that matters and provided we don’t put our foot in it then the prize is in sight. Westminster isn’t going to give it to us easily or quietly don’t lets kid ourselves. We either stick together or hang alone.

    279. Chic McGregor says:

      Very sorry to hear about Dick Gaughan. He has contributed here during indyref1 so many will know of his support for indy.

      Here is video of him supporting an Independence First rally outside Holyrood in 2007.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4zuVY1Npb0

      There is also a fund to help him and his family get through a bad time.

      https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/tony-haynes

    280. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I will be 70 next year, so I suppose that puts me in the demographic which those who want Independence NOW sees as holding Scotland back. Well I wish we had got what I voted for in 2014, a Yes vote. I don’t think, had we won the day, we would be independent today – I never bought the 18-months timetable – but we would be well down the road.

      On the other hand, had we even got “Home Rule in everything but defence and foreign affairs”, I could have lived with that; but, Westminster would never allow that.

      Right now, we are in the phoney war period of Brexit. Nothing meaningful will happen until Article 50 is triggered. Only then can the talking/fighting start.

      I cannot see how Maggie May can square the circle of getting a trade deal which suits England, with an immigration deal which suits UKIP and her right wing. Also, the City of London does not want Brexit. She is caught in a vice of David Cameron’s making,and getting out of her problem will be messy.

      The SNP therefore has to sit and wait, gather information, be ready to strike, as soon as it becomes clear what is happening. This may be some time yet. Patience, please.

    281. Ken500 says:

      Nicola is conciliatory. This bring more people (female) on board because they like less confrontational politics. 50% of the population. It is working. Support for Independence is increasing.

      There can’t be Indy2 until the legislation to facilitate and implement it goes goes through Holyrood and is supported by the electorate. There is not point in having another Referendum until the legislation is put in place and it can be won.

      May 2017 SNP/SNP. Do not waste or dilute your vote.

      .

    282. Smallaxe says:

      galamcennalath says:
      “Have you attended any of deputy hustings recently? I was left with a clear view that IndyRef2 is coming because the gulf between where the SG/SNP and WM will stand on an EU deal will be too wide.”

      Hi galamcennalath, I was at our local branch meeting a couple
      of weeks ago attended by Joan McAlpine amongst others,the main
      topic of conversation seemed to be a Hog roast held last Saturday, I have no wish to jump the gun,but I do want someone/anyone from the party to rip the sh#t out of the chancer’s and interviewers who continually spout crap that goes uncontested by our spokespeople.

      Peace Always my friend

      PS. I am also aware the SNP are our best hope to get where we
      want to go.

    283. Ken500 says:

      Davidson is a malicious, calculating, greedy liar. A total cruel embarrassment without any empathy.
      Never trust a Tory/Unionist.

    284. JET Jockey says:

      Did anyone see the STV Scottish News where it was highlighted that the Tory MSP Mr BURNET for an Aberdeenshire constituency had irregularities with his election expenses. Did this reach the BBC TV or Radio channels I have seen no reference to this in any newspaper, If he had been an SNP candidate what would have been different.????

    285. Papadox says:

      Like most Tory front men Ruth and her gang are totally mercenary, a moth for hire to the highest bidder. They are there to lead the well trained natives into captivity and serfdom for good old Londinium. They are not to be trusted they are nasty people who would sell their own granny, and probably have, no conscience no regrets.

    286. sinky says:

      Struan says:@ 10.16

      I am sure the SNP has a srategic plan for a new referendum but no point in losing another referendum any time soon.

      When ALL the media, other than The National and Sunday Herald, are opposed to Scottish self government it is difficult to get responses to every Unionist attack and scaremongering published or aired particularly when the newspapers are owned outside Scotland and BBC controlled from London. Just watch Dimbleby cutting off Joanna Cherry, who was brilliant, on Question Time last night and refusing to let her answer John McDonald’s claims about implementing Tory cuts.

      It is not just up to the SNP, Indy supporters should be knocking on doors , holding street stalls and writing regular letters to newspapers and calling radio stations pointing out the postives of self determination and rebutting the Brit Nat nonsense that we are too wee too poor and too stupid to be like any other normal country.

    287. DerekM says:

      I see fat boab has been caught telling porkies in parliament trying to blame the SNP for her own parties total mismanagement of the English NHS.

      To those who think the SNP should do more and tell the people of Scotland more just how do you suggest they achieve this through the MSM?

      Stop being suckered by yoon trolls i told you before i went on holiday they are trolling yes saying the SNP are not doing enough and are shying away from indyref it would seem some of you did not get the message but instead are running with the yoon troll jeez 🙁

    288. Breeks says:

      The thing about broadcasting which isn’t immediately obvious is the symbiotic relationship is has with our contrived and dysfunctional opposition politics here in Scotland.

      It is inconceivable that Scotland would not have experienced a more credible political opposition, something of much greater caliber than that led by Ian Gray, Johann Lamont, Murphy and Dugdale, and now in similar vein with Davidson, if such lamentable leaderships had been held to proper account by a diligent and rigorous political commentary. They’d all have been “fund oot” before they even achieved high office.

      The opposition has gotten away with packaging inept, inarticulate, amateurish spokespeople as credible political Giants we are lucky to have to steering our destiny, when the sad reality is they are mere pawns, whose primary function is spin Unionist Govermental policy. The SNP isn’t the enemy because of anything it will do to Scotland, the SNP is the enemy because it threatens to expose, destabilise, and ultimately overthrow the cosy wee puppet show we suffer, of political duds and flunkies kept in position by the joint puppetry skills of Westminster policy and BBC manipulation. The only reason you can’t call it a puppet government is because it isn’t in government.

      The one edifice couldn’t sustain itself without the corruption of the other.

      Without the sickly, adoring and endless honeymoon period which the media bestows on these political minnows of unionism, the opposition would have to find itself some credible leaders, people who could actually articulate a position or philosophy in meaningful terms, or else be judged and account for their inability to do so.

      The BBC in turn, with no credible opposition, are left having no credible opposition mandate to spin, and stand revealed in stark silhouette as the underhand manipulative interference in Scottish politics that they are. It is crystal clear their agenda is to channel UK policy and intent into the Scottish political realm and have our Nation swallow their Britnat myths. Above all, they want to destroy Scotland’s nation building process and halt our journey towards independence.

      By God this contrived reality has lingered like such a bad smell, but the hollow political opposition of Labour has crumbled, and the Tories reinvention as a viable political alternative is simply too surreal to waste time discussing. The BBC is at last showing the strain, trying to sell us the frumpy leadership of a shouty Tory who changes her position quicker than a chameleon changes colour. Ruth Davidson and her magic tin of tartan paint eh? We know it isn’t working, and they know it isn’t working. Any finally, with this new “Charter” the BBC, having run out of surrogates, is at last free to engage with the SNP directly.

      Forget surrogate “A”, Scottish Labour has shattered. Forget surrogate “B”, the Scottish Conservatives are Thatchers children. The fight for Scotland is a battle between the SNP and Westminster, and Westminster is manifest in the shape of the BBC.

      I just hope the SNP is savvy enough to realise that this isn’t a political struggle. Politics alone will not defeat the media because the media does not require a political mandate, public approval, or electoral majority to remain in power. The BBC is the one enemy left standing and it is only one which cannot be defeated at the polls. The SNP must venture beyond politics to engage properly with the BBC.

      Our voting population must be helped to recognise that our broadcast media is the insidious malignancy that it is. Only then, and not before, will we all get back to politics, where the issues of Brexit and Independence may at last be properly discussed, objectively considered, and ultimately determined on their merits by an informed population which understands what’s at stake.

      This engagement with the BBC is our St Vith crossroads, and it must be held at all costs.

    289. Smallaxe says:

      I’m afraid that some friends on here have taken my rant at 9:52am in the wrong way.Reading it again myself, I can perhaps
      understand why.Frustraion got the better of me, I am usually a
      very placid person and have no desire or inclination to be
      influenced by Trolls or W/Minsters propaganda,nor will I be.

      I apologise to anyone who thought different. I am 100% behind
      our cause and will as always vote SNP/SNP.

      Just feeling a little bit down today,again I apologise for any
      misunderstanding.

      Peace and Love to you All

    290. Sunniva says:

      I don’t know why we are wasting our time even talking about and hoping for a second indy referendum. Westminster isn’t going to allow it. Even if support reaches 75% in opinion polls. Especially if support reaches 75%!

      And Support for independence isn’t going to rise by being conciliatory to No voters but by challenging their shibboleths, attacking the union, showing its disparities, and making the postive case for self-determination.

      Look, the SNP can run a competant government, managing Scotland as well as can be expected, doing a great job, and all it will prove to unionists is that the union is working fine.

    291. McDuff says:

      DerekM

      I for one am not being “suckered in by yoon trolls“.
      You ask how the SNP can do more to counter the MSM, well as I have said before they should be a lot more assertive when they are being interviewed and make the opposition explain exactly why this country and its people could not be as successful as other small EU countries. They could also use some of the invaluable facts produced by WoS which they never seem to do.
      The other way is for indy supporters to turn out in their thousands at rallies stopping traffic and making headlines.
      I am always amaized that 1.6 million people voted for independence yet only 5,000 to 10,000 bother to turn out at demos and I really wonder what its going to take to shake people out of their apathy.

    292. Andrew McLean says:

      If we fight brexit today we are fighting a paper tiger, if we fight the BBC square on we are accused of being against free speech.
      How do you fight the biggest state propaganda machine in the world? Make it irrelevant. Make its words suspect. Make it everything it says it is not. As Breeks rightly says make the argument transcend politics, make the argument that the BBC is Anti Scottish, pro Westminster elite, overpaid, suspect, biased, corrupt. Rubbish their output at every turn, be obstructive, campaign openly against them, call them out, raise complainants with them.

      And all this is proper as they are a body of the state we despise, we pay their wages by the taxation they call a licence, we are entitled to raise letters of fire and sword against them! We pay for it, if you are unhappy then complain.

    293. Capella says:

      The SNP and Indy movement will get nowhere with the MSM. The best option is social media. If that means older voters (like me) learning to like Facebook and Twitter then so be it.

      An “instant rebuttal” Facebook page would be handy. Any bright Indy geeks or Cybernats out there prepared to set one up? An information retrieval system would also be useful.

      Ruth Davidson apparently lied about NHS England’s failures, ascribing them to Scotland. That is not something the BBC will publicise. Circulating it around Facebook however would reach a big audience without the need of a TV licence.

    294. galamcennalath says:

      I see George Osborne has admitted he did not get it right on Brexit.

      To be expected – Osborne got absolutely nothing right!

      Cameron and Osborne will into history as the worst leaders ever.

    295. McBoxheid says:

      Alex Clark says:
      15 September, 2016 at 4:29 pm

      @Mike

      It appears to me to be adjusted for age in line with Scottish age demographics. There are 4 age groups in the poll, 16-24; 25-34; 35-55 and 55+.

      According to Scottish government statistics the breakdown of these groups is:

      16-24 make up 14% of the population.
      25-34 make up 16%
      35-54 make up 33%
      and 55+ are a whopping 37%
      ————
      16-24=9 years
      25-34=10 years
      35-54=20 years
      55-???=45 years at least

      The balance is badly off

      Another point is that I question the “truthiness” of the majority of over 55s are No voters. I’m 56 and a Yesser. All my over 55 friends are too. (Even the German ones agree its completely wrong to let someone else rule your land and they would vote for independence if it was their country at stake.

      This blaming the over 55s crap is just so full of shite. There are plenty over 55s willing to get the claymore from the thatch. Please stop using the over 55s as an excuse. It’s just laziness

    296. Sunniva says:

      @Capella. Grateful though I am for social media, I think its reach its distinctly limited. WoS is doing a fantastic job, but partly because it gets mentioned on MSM, and that’s 100% due to the Rev’s combative stance, in provoking reaction, and forcing the unionists hands. Therefore Wings gets mentioned on MSM. The Rev is doing the job that Salmond used to do, in grabbing MSM column inches by robust challenge to the crap of unionist politicians. He is attacking, not defending. Every time this happens, a few more of the curious come here to see, perhaps to mock, but drip, drip, they go away thinking that maybe, just possibly, we have a point, and are being fed a false narrative by the MSM to keep us in our place.

      But without such robust attack manoeuvres, we will get nowhere. If the SNP government does a good job, if Nicola is conciliatiory, it might received a begrudged acknowledgement of its competance, but that will only cause unionists to relax back into their armchairs that the union works fine.

    297. Smallaxe says:

      McDuff says:”I am always amaized that 1.6 million people voted for independence yet only 5,000 to 10,000 bother to turn out at demos and I really wonder what its going to take to shake people out of their apathy.”

      This amongst other things is exactly the cause of my own frustration my friend.

      Peace Always

    298. Sharney Dubs says:

      You can just picture them in their “think tank” “brain storming” how do we hit them and hit them hard? I’ve got it!!! lets have a poll showing that …… Good man!! top egg!! what a whistling shit of a guy!!!
      Now anything else? Yeah yeah keep the media pressure on, no references to Scotlandin any way positive……

      Yawn…

    299. Smallaxe says:

      Sunniva says:”But without such robust attack manoeuvres, we will get nowhere. If the SNP government does a good job, if Nicola is conciliatiory, it might received a begrudged acknowledgement of its competance, but that will only cause unionists to relax back into their armchairs that the union works fine.”

      I tried to say similar to yourself in maybe a more clumsy way
      earlier Sunniva,thank you for putting it more clearly.

      Peace Always

    300. Fred says:

      Sad news indeed about Dick Gaughan, he is however a bonnie fighter & will be back fighting fascism with that guitar!

    301. Tam Jardine says:

      Way back up the thread Wull posted an excellent summary of his position re the EU and the single market. The two cannot be conflated and I don’t want to settle for some kind of “least bad outcome” of leaving the EU whilst retaining access to the single market.

      I hope this is still a site where this as per at ion can be expressed without accusation that I am somehow being suckered by the unionists into thinking that the SNP are not doing enough.

      If that is my opinion (and clearly there are a few people frustrated at the position we find ourselves in) then unlike in the labour party- we are allowed to disagree with positions the SNP take. If dissent is not tolerated on here then where?

      I would remind my friends on here that venting frustration at the SNP approach or position on a given issue does not make anyone less committed to the cause, to the SNP, it does not make them stupid and it does not make them naive.

      This closing down of debate advances nothing- in fact it is a total turn off. If someone makes a point you disagree with challenge it rather than dismiss it. Aimed at no one in particular. I am SNP but this is not an SNP website.

    302. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Regarding an independent Scottish TV service.

      As one of the two founding members of the UKoGB, the Country of Scotland should have the ability to broadcast its own TV service without hindrance of any sort. Europe already has many examples of this, as can be seen in particular in Spain/Catalonia.

      Should the Scottish Government or any other group of people decide to create a nationwide TV service in Scotland, it should do so.

      Through non-devolvement and limitation of broadcasting channels/frequencies allowed by the Government in Westminster, the UK wide monopoly of broadcasting quite simply amounts to a suppression of the “Freedom of Speech” in the UK and Europe. These are third world practices for god’s sake.

      Europe already has at its heart the free movement of Goods, Services, People and Finance, so why is Westminster able to (deviously) forbid the start of an independent Scottish broadcasting system? This is a form of censorship..!

      There’s a case to be made and surely this is a subject whom Alun Smith and the SNP/SG should be urgently bringing up with Juncker, Tusk and Schulz. Remember, the longer the Westminster Brexit fiasco drags on, the more Europe will get p*ssed off with London and willing to listen to their Allies in Scotland. Guy Verfofstadt would certainly be willing to help methinks. 😉

    303. Petra says:

      @ DerekM at 11:12am ……. “Stop being suckered by yoon trolls”.

      Spot on Derek.

    304. Smallaxe says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      16 September, 2016 at 10:29 am
      Small axe SOURCE: FREE THOUGHT PROJECT
      Govt-Investigators-Apologize-for-Deleting-Evidence-of-Paedophile-Rings:

      Thank you Kenny for your insight into servers and such, I have no knowledge of these things,but I knew something was far wrong.

      Peace Always

    305. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      The Herald posted a surprisingly good analysis of that poll, stealing my point about a key thing being that Davison’s satisfaction being 55% was more impressive than her beating Sturgeon (by 55% to 54%). Onyways, from there:

      Among undecided voters not giving a view on independence – who made up 6.5 per cent of respondents – 36 per cent backed staying in the United Kingdom prior to the EU referendum but have now said they are undecided on independence, while 14 per cent had gone from pro-independence to being undecided. “.

      From Mark Diffley: “ “Despite the UK-wide vote contradicting the wishes of the majority in Scotland, Brexit has not resulted in a surge in support for independence.

      But: “At 48 per cent among committed voters, it remains entirely possible that a second referendum campaign could be won by supporters of independence.

      That would be my conclusion. Despite the agnosticism about polls, they are very useful for seeing where to target resources, and how to do it.

    306. Macart says:

      @Yesindyref2

      Pretty much.

      Another thing or two they haven’t taken into account:- Brexit has resulted in a temporary constitutional stasis. Until folk know what the deal is, what it means for their pockets and what it means for access and travel, they won’t commit to any decision.

      Secondly and completely at odds with Ruthie’s deranged insistence, the SG haven’t been beating any indy drum. There is no campaign and no push to improve the current small rise in the route of voter travel. Folk are naturally drifting over of their own accord at the moment without any aid from the SG.

      The premise of the poll and its conclusions are deeply flawed, but then that’s beside the point of the exercise.

      Those polls also tell you where its creators haven’t been looking. 😀

    307. yesindyref2 says:

      @Macart
      Yup. Salmond was right when he said there was a natural majority in favour of Independence. During the Ref campaign, face to face, I listened to NO voters rather than talk, a gentle nudge to get them to talk, and what I found was that as far as I could work it, an actual majority of the intending NO voters liked the idea of Independence but were worried about it. How many of them voted YES, no idea, but some would have voted NO.

      But if left alone by the SNP / SG they may well move over, and as you say, the SG haven’t been beating the Indy drum – nor should they. They should just govern, do the best for Brexit protecting Scotland’s interests, and I would say, produce some more anlaysis of that deficit. It ain’t going away in the minds of the People, but from those onshore deficit figures, it looks like it is slowly and steadily in reality.

      On the other hand, if the Unionists want to concentrate on that £15 billion deficit, as they are, at least it concentrates the opposition on one part, and is easier tackled head-on when the time is right.

    308. Macart says:

      @Yesindyref2

      I suspect they’ll regret drawing folks notice to that notional deficit.

      Just a feeling like. 😉

    309. Rock says:

      geeo,

      “Guest on stv nightly fairy stories from the National just basically endorsed the nonsensical leaders satisfaction poll.

      On our side !”

      Effijy,

      “The National is a Trojan Horse without any doubt!”

      As I have been saying for a long time, The National does not support independence.

      Its only purpose is to milk gullible independence supporters.

      Buy The National and The Sunday Herald if you want to keep The Herald alive.

    310. McDuff says:

      Rock
      Spot on.

    311. yesindyref2 says:

      @Rock, @Effijy, @McDuff

      Cobblers. Do any of you ever actually read The National or visit its website? Today’s website front page puts the lie to your “conerns”.

    312. McBoxheid says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      16 September, 2016 at 8:21 pm

      @Rock, @Effijy, @McDuff

      Cobblers. Do any of you ever actually read The National or visit its website? Today’s website front page puts the lie to your “conerns”.
      —————

      I couldn’t agree more!

      What the National is, is an Independence supporting paper who gives everyone that supports independence a platform to inform, put forward their point of view whether the majority agree or not.

      What the National is not, is a platform for the SNP.

      They approach Independence from all sides, including column inches from Lesley Riddock, Vonny Moyes (spelling?) Cat Boyd, Paul Kavanaugh (WGD) right across the spectrum to Micheal Fry. The have a good coverage of international news, reflecting the fact that a modren Scotland is outlooking. The having columns by current SNP MPs Mhairi Black and Tasmina Ahmen Sheikh and of course Greg Moodies catoon strip.

      The Letters page allows everyone to reply, including rampant Unionists. No one is discriminated against. I, a bog standard ex squaddie have even had over a dozen letters published.

      They are not perfect and tend to include source stories without commentry which can sometimes be frustrating.

      As Yesindyref2 says, they are on occasion very vociferous in their support for indy, todays issue being a good example.

      They support Gaelic and Scots with columns in each language.

      They appeal to a broad spectrum of support and offer column inches to everyone involved in seeking independence.

      Do try to dis them just ‘cos your particular view point does always agree with everything they print.

      BTW, I have no connection or financial interests in either the National or it’s publishers.



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