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Cutting your losses

Posted on September 30, 2018 by

We’d hoped not to have to write any more about this for a while, but a story broke this evening on left-wing Labour website Skwawkbox that we thought those of you not on Twitter would want to see.

Following a previous piece casting huge doubt on Dugdale and the Scottish media’s version of events, the site got hold of a letter (dated yesterday) from Labour’s general secretary Jennie Formby to Mary Fee MSP, who’d sent a complaint about the party’s decision to stop funding Dugdale’s legal costs.

And it’s quite the read.

The yellow highlighting, we assume, is Skwawkbox’s:

Ouch. The bit about how Dugdale hasn’t even said thanks for the £94,000 Labour have spent so far is especially stinging. But the most interesting section is this one:

According to our lawyers, the appeal is likely to cost Dugdale somewhere in the ballpark of £10,000 to £20,000. If successful it would end the case completely, and we’d become liable for a large chunk of her costs to date.

(It’s impossible to say exactly how much, and probably not the full £94,000 because that’s such a ridiculously excessive amount to have spent, but it’d be a hefty slice.)

So having already spent £94K, Labour decided they’d prefer to write off every penny rather than risk another £10K or so on an appeal that could potentially recoup the bulk of it. That can only speak volumes about what they think the appeal’s chances of success are.

That does NOT, of course, guarantee that it’ll fail. We’re taking absolutely nothing for granted. We expect that it’ll go ahead sometime next year anyway – because the Daily Record will be picking up the bill for it and Dugdale has little to lose – and we hope the sheriff’s original judgement will be upheld.

(We’ll probably hold another small fundraiser in the aim of covering our side of the costs for it soon, because our lawyers have to attend it too.)

But it’s nice to hear their legal advisers’ considered opinion all the same.

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    123 to “Cutting your losses”

    1. Macart says:

      Just posted the link on last thread. That is some reply they made and that advice received must have been pretty conclusive.

      That’s yer akchul zinger right there. Also? I’m guessing this is what a party ‘Civil War’ does look like.

      Meeja will be on it any minute now. 🙄

    2. One_Scot says:

      I genuinely don’t know where we would be without the gifted talent you have, or the endless hours of hard work you put in, and I’m sure I speak for the majority of us, we will always have your back.

    3. Frank Gillougley says:

      Count me in, Stu re any fundraiser. We all know you’re in safe hands.

      Incidentally, as Dunc ballantyne would say on the prospect of the Yes Movement welcoming ms. Dugdale over to the winning side, ‘Ah’m out.’
      She’s a complete and utter liability, with zero judgement.

    4. Derek says:

      That’s an interesting read.

      As an aside, thanks for the acknowledgement that not everybody does twitter. Some other folk find that hard to accept…

    5. Fergus Green says:

      Only the Labour Party can come out of their annual conference 2 points lower in the opinion polls and at each other throats at the same time.

      Pass the popcorn.

    6. Alan R Page says:

      There is every possibility, Fergus Green, that the Tories will try to match the Labour Party’s performance at Conference.

    7. r.esquierdo says:

      You are always a winner

    8. galamcennalath says:

      Labour “had no involvement with the column and no oversight of the content”.

      Indeed. So exactly why did they decide to pay anything towards legal bills in the first place? I genuinely don’t understand why they got involved at all.

    9. katherine hamilton says:

      Hi Rev
      Been following this with interest. She’s a silly girl. Half the country is behind you. You won’t fail for lack of funds.
      Just name the date and time.
      Bring her down. End of.

    10. Mike says:

      Its interesting to note that the division within Labour on this issue follows the fault lines of the division between the Corbynistas and the Blairites.

      UK politics could see the emergence of another 2 parties in the near future. a Tory party split and the Labour party split. I wonder if the Blairites will join forces with the non Brexit supporting Tories to form an alliance of like minded Tories while the Brexit Tories swallow up UKIP to be our new fascist party.
      I hope to fuck we are Independent long before this though.

    11. Ian Mackay says:

      That even the Labour Party lawyers asked to examine the case on behalf on the party think that there is little chance of Kezia not being found guilty of defamation speaks volumes.

      Looks like the Labour Party has decided to ‘stop throwing good money after bad’ – and cut their losses.

      So – basically – even her own party thinks she is guilty.

      What I don’t get from Kezia’s position is why she hasn’t taken any of Rev. Stu’s offers out from this court case and mitigate her loss. It very much looks like she was happy for the Labour Party to bankroll a very shaky defence in the hope that they might pull a rabbit out the hat or that Stu’s lawyers slip up giving her a way out.

      I guess Kezia will now be hoping that The Record will now step in for her defence. The fact that there could be another £20,000 loss coming their way might preclude their intervention. I doubt that would be a major stumbling block but the fact that the Labour Party have already predicted Kezia’s guilty verdict I think is a bigger hurdle. Newspapers like to be associated with winners; and Kezia seems destined to lose this case.

      In fact – since newspapers like to be associated with winners – what would be the odds of The Record announcing Rev. Stu as their new columnist next year? 🙂

      Better odds than a Kezia win, I’m guessing!

    12. ALANM says:

      Who exactly are those senior SNP figures “dreaming” about Dugdale joining the party? It’s the stuff of nightmares as far as I’m concerned.

    13. K1 says:

      So now there may be an issue of ‘fraud’ too…as no one seems to know where the money has come from and who signed it off for Dugdale’s case?

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1046454106003509248

    14. K1 says:

      And also there is the question that Murray Foote raises, of why Labour intervened and said ‘back off’ to the Record funding her case at the very start of it…who ‘intervened’ and under who’s authority did they do so?

      https://twitter.com/gary_whitley/status/1046443077152501763

    15. Winifred Mccartney says:

      As said by someone on here “she’s a calamity, get her out of here”. Someone should put her out of this misery – she should apologize profusely, DR print an apology and pay the damages and costs.

      Any news of walkers for indy refused entry to Stirling Castle?

    16. Ruby says:

      galamcennalath

      I agree I don’t understand why Labour got involved and I’m not sure why the Daily Record are getting involved. Nobody is suing the Daily Record (yet) and they have no obligation to Kezia Dugdale. Perhaps the Daily Record just like spending money!

      Will the Daily Record now take over the funding from the beginning & relieve the the Labour Party members of the £90,000 debt after all they did want to fund the case from the beginning.

      Or will they just take over from after the appeal. It was Kezia who decided on the appeal without knowing where the funding was coming from.

    17. mike cassidy says:

      Galamacennalath. 7.19

      Exactly.

      Formby’s clearly pissed off her predecessor – Ian McNicol – greenlit the initial expenditure.

      So now Kezia Dugdale is experiencing what it is like to have friends in high places who cease to be in those high places.

      Mind you.

      Her former friend in high places is not complaining now he’s got the ermine as Baron McNicol of West Kilbride.

    18. Davosa says:

      The SLP are really in meltdown. What a total bunch of fuckwits they are. A sadly deluded bunch of fuckwits !

    19. Mad Unionist says:

      Silly Labour and Nationalists. Brexit is here and Nationalist ("Tractor" - Ed)s to the EU is a real issue.

    20. yesindyref2 says:

      Counsel’s opinions will always be provisional but equitable and ruthless in writing. If you’re lucky the QC will give a verbal percentage probability which will be a “safe” one for a win. So if they said “80% chance of winning” they probably mean 90% or more. I daresay there’s similar for “you’re probably going to lose”.

    21. Johnj says:

      Is there such a thing as neurotic toast?

      If there is, she’s it

    22. dakk says:

      ‘Brexit is here and Nationalist (“Tractor” – Ed)s to the EU is a real issue.’

      You bet,and we’ve got a 50/50(and rising) chance of finally taking you guys down for ever.

    23. Hector says:

      Ian McKay 7.39pm
      Since newspapers like to be associated with winners – what would be the odds of The Record announcing Rev. Stu as their new columnist next year? ?

      What a wonderful idea! C’mon Daily Record….if you truly want to be the “Voice of Scotland”, give Stewart Campbell a weekly column. You may find your reader numbers increase significantly. Otherwise, WHAT are you afraid of?

    24. Seepy says:

      What is it about you, Rev Stu, that sends the UK Unionist establishment into such self-defeating paroxysms? The net result of the Youtube shutdown a couple of months ago was the realisation among the senior staff of BBC Scotland that they mattered less in the grand scheme of all things British than a bucket of warm spit.

      It’s now time for the Labour Party (Scotland branch) to get that BOHICA feeling. (Bend over, here it comes again).

    25. Tam Dennett says:

      I will definitely be more than happy to contribute again to this cause if required

    26. Seepy says:

      “K1 says:

      So now there may be an issue of ‘fraud’ too…”

      Fraud is such a loaded word. Misappropriation of funds seems much more appropriate.

    27. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This is the question I put up on Twitter as a poll, on Friday.

      ‘If you are an independence supporter, would you welcome Kezia Dugdale applying for membership of the SNP?’

      4260 votes have been cast, 69% Yes, 31% No.

      It closes at midnight, but how many have changed their mind after seeing what happened yesterday and today?

    28. K1 says:

      Merely highlighted the Rev’s use of the word ‘fraud’ in that link, in which the twitterer utilised it while questioning where the monies had come from Seepy:

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1046454106003509248

      We’ll see…it’ll aw come oot in the waash.

    29. Macart says:

      I’m not entirely sure British Nationalists and especially Conservatives do self awareness.

      https://twitter.com/DouglasDaniel/status/1046480662818107397

      They’re also a bit ropey on irony.

    30. jfngw says:

      O/T

      It would look like the name Historic Scotland is a misnomer, they should really rename themselves Historic UK. I hope all pro-independence members are taking note. This organisation seems to be decidedly unionist, and not hiding the fact either.

    31. Ghillie says:

      That letter is very clear.

      I look forward to seeing it headlining on the DR.

    32. Thepnr says:

      The Labour party were wrong in my opinion in agreeing to fund Kezia Dugdales costs, doesn’t matter either what that agreement might have been, be it “initial support” or to see it all the way through to a conclusion.

      The letter claims that the initial support was offered but with the condition that a “drop hands” settlement was to be the goal of their financial support. This would have resulted in both parties agreeing to ending the litigation but each being responsible for their own legal costs.

      It must have been pretty clear to the Labour party early doors that this was not going to happen as instead the defence chose to argue that the case should not go to a full hearing and that will also be their argument in the appeal.

      I doubt any of this need have happened and may not have without the Labour party offering support back at the start of this. It was no doubt a political decision made in the defence of the Labour party in Scotland and not specifically the then leader of that party.

      The Daily Record it is now being said are willing to fund any further legal costs for Dugdales defence which is not surprising. Where was the “editorial control” over what they published, where were their lawyers before deciding to publish an article from the then leader of Labour in Scotland against a very influential Scottish Independence blogger?

      If the Rev wins his case then I would hope that the Daily Record will publish the details of their role in this whole saga in accordance with the IPSO Editors Code of Practice.

      v) A publication must report fairly and accurately the outcome of an action for defamation to which it has been a party, unless an agreed settlement states otherwise, or an agreed statement is published.

    33. William Habib Steele says:

      If I remember aright, the sum Stuart demanded was £25,000. £90,000 has already been spent to avoid paying the £25,000! She’s going to spend more!

      We dare not let the English Labour Party of the UK, or it’s Scottish Accounting Office budget for Scotland!

    34. Capella says:

      Richard Leonard should now resign. Just thought I’d throw that into the mix.

      RE HES – can anyone remember anything “political” ever happening at Stirling Castle or Edinburgh Castle or anywhere else under their purview? I can remember someone refusing permission to project the Saltire against Edinburgh Castle one New Year. I would have thought it completely unremarkable to have one’s national flag displayed on such and occasion. Could a decision to refuse be seen as “political”?

      Or do they not manage Edinburgh Castle?

    35. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      Aye, good point.

      It’ll all come out ‘in the wash’ eventually, but we’d best have our magnifying glasses ready.

      😉

    36. Marcia says:

      Very interesting read. Whoever leaked it,thanks.

      Historic Scotland should now be renamed, Hysterical Scotland.

    37. Fairliered says:

      Well, Stuart, when you first asked for an apology from Kezia Dugdale, did you have any idea that it would turn into such an omnishambles for SLAB? (Opens another bag of popcorn).

    38. sandy says:

      OT

      Just having a look on twitter regarding this morning’s event at Stirling Castle concerning the “500” marchers. There were, of course, some who agreed with “The Authorities”, however wrong they might be, but one in particular, under the name of ALEX, a numptie of some sort, was really very unbecoming in that had this happened at Winsor castle or some other similar English establishment, he would immediately be sought out by M15 or similar & thrown onto jail as a suspected terrorist & kept there for as many days as antiquated English law allows.

    39. Thepnr says:

      @Capella

      “RE HES – can anyone remember anything “political” ever happening at Stirling Castle or Edinburgh Castle or anywhere else under their purview?”

      Yes I can, see this about 4:30 minutes in that coincidentally I posted a few days ago before the HES stushie 🙂

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SvdecwnYJ4

      Did she have “permission” LOL

    40. Capella says:

      Yes – on checking I find that HES does manage Edinburgh Castle. I discovered that they hold a “Royal Edinburgh Military Tattoo” there every August. That can’t possibly be political, can it?

      Do you think that we could hold an annual Tattoo at the Castle?

      https://www.historicenvironment.scot/visit-a-place/places/edinburgh-castle/

    41. AlbertaScot says:

      So did Ditzy Kez really “quit” her Daily Record gig? Or did she get dumped?

      Could it be something to do with the apparent revelation that her squeeze was secretly penning her pointless and predictable columns when she was on jungle duty.

      Isn’t that what’s called plagiarism, having someone else do your homework.

      If I was looking down the barrel of a costly litigation cutting myself loose from a deep pockets newspaper group with a fat libel insurance account is probably the last thing I’d think about doing.

      And on a similar cockamamie topic, did that Dumb-ass Dick Leonard really use a credit union in Liverpool as wallpaper to announce his grand plan to open a 20 pound bank account for every 12-year-old Scottish school kid.

      You couldn’t make this sh!t up.

    42. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – ha ha! Lady Caesar! doesn’t look like someone who would ask permission.

      But the walkers were asked to leave. Freedom to Roam obviously doesn’t apply around HES managed properties. I wonder why.

      https://www.scotways.com/faq/law-on-statutory-access-rights

    43. Petra says:

      @ Thepnr at 9:25pm ….”Where was the “editorial control” over what they published?”

      It was probably the Daily Rag that put her up to it in the first place. The Daily Rag being “controlled” by / from …….. ?

      And surely the Labour Party have to be held responsible for slanderous comments their wee lackeys make in Holyrood? If not them, Ken Macintosh as Presiding Officer should be taking some of the flack for this. Maybe he should now fork out the £10,000 / £20,000 costs from his £108,000 per annum plus £thousands in freebies.

    44. Dan Huil says:

      Labour’s a mess. No change there then. The Rev can count on help if he loses the case though I agree that Labour not wanting to spend another £10,000 shows they don’t have much confidence in Dugdale.

      I see the rabid britnats in toryland are thinking about a “Festival of Britain” a la 1951. Dear god, they really do believe in Empire2.0! Maybe Scotland’s exhibit in London could be a life-size plasticine model of wee free John Macleod at prayer. Or the real Ruth Davidson munching on a thistle? Either’s good for a laugh.

    45. jfngw says:

      Just think, we could have a Festival of Independence to coincide with the Festival of Brexit. To celebrate, as Jeremy Hunt would say, gaining freedom from something similar to the Soviet Union.

      A day to celebrate our independence and the possibilities that it brings, to let the people of Scotland decide their relationship to the EU. We even could make it a Festival for Europe.

    46. Rock says:

      “That does NOT, of course, guarantee that it’ll fail. We’re taking absolutely nothing for granted.”

      I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong:

      Rock (19th May 2017 – “Becoming the squirrel”):

      “I would love Dugdale to be humiliated in a court.

      But the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

      Carmichael libeled Nicola Sturgeon before the last Westminster election and got away with it.”

    47. Stephen McKenzie says:

      Folks if you click on the Skwuawkbox image at the top of Stu’ posting, you will be able to read 5 comments. The last one by Duncan Shipley Dalton is well worth a read!

    48. Lenny Hartley says:

      He is back, thought he said the other day nobody likes me im off, could it be Torrance the rock?

    49. Hi Stu – no problem — maybe not a lot £££ but every little helps — just ask.

    50. jfngw says:

      I would also think that as this was a personal column for the DR and had no actual direct Labour Party involvement then presumably the payment of legal fees is a benefit in kind from her employer and subject to income tax.

    51. It’s almost as if the remnants of the Blair Brown Cool Britannia Red Tory neo conservatives swilling around in the Branch office septic tank are trying to bankrupt Corbyn’s Militant Marxist Branch Office Up Here.
      I struggle to decide who has the bigger ego.
      The Jungle woman, or Mum2B born again Maid of Orleans.
      Of course, it helps the Dead tree Scrolls and Sally at the Ministry of Truth hide the hell that is Brexit if we are subjected to the trials and tribs of two women who will not even make footnote status in the history of Scotland’s Road to Freedom.

    52. I wonder what Fifi le Bon Bon would have made of all this?

    53. Ruby says:

      @Stephen McKenzie

      Wow! That is some comment from Duncan Shipley Dalton!

      ‘The alternative might be for the Party to attempt to claw back the expenditure from Kezia Dugdale herself.’

      Will the Daily Record pay it all for her?

    54. Dr Jim says:

      I had a court case once when I was well off (not now) and I made sure I kept the other party in court till they went broke (I was in the right I stress)

      My point, the YES movement has more money than the Daily Record even if it were only at £1 per head once a week for as long as it takes or for-ev-er!

      The Daily Record might want to think about that

    55. Thepnr says:

      @Stephen McKenzie

      No comments then from anyone supporting further funding by Labour, this is getting a whole lot messier for Kezia Dugdale.

      Let’s face it, most people can never afford to go to court as they just don’t have the funds required as they are normally beyond the reach of all except the most privileged. In this case though Kezia had the backing of the largest political party in the UK and the Rev had the backing of ordinary people in Scotland. That’s us and without that backing we wouldn’t be discussing this and the papers would be free to print anything they want against any prominent Independence supporter. That can’t be right.

      Who could be next?

      Just about anybody it would seem, I guess that’s the whole point and that these newspaper publishers need to know that they can’t just write anything they like about people as there will be a price to pay. I hope this action will make them think twice before a next time, though I’m not holding my breath.

    56. Capella says:

      @ Stephen McKenzie – good find! That comment is a cracker. Wish I liked popcorn.

    57. You’d be forgiven for thinking that the last remnants of the Blair Brown neo conservatives swilling around in the cess pit that was the Scottish Branch Office of Cool Britannia had set out to bankrupt Corbyn’s Militants Up Here.
      Who authorises £90 k worth of expenditure in any organisation without going through proper governance and setting it all out in the form up some sort of transparent written agreement?
      Does the Branch Office not have at least a Finance Committee who would have had to have approved this extraordinary largesse?
      On the face of it there are two possible reasons why Dugdale got the backing of the Branch Office who reportedly advised the DR that they were going to foot the Jungle Celebrity’s legal costs.
      The money was just lifted out of the biscuit tin and handed to Dugdale, or..Or?
      What?
      Dugdale and Davidson are twa fleas aff the same Ego centric dug.
      While their precious Union is going up in flames, they are stamping their feet like spoiled brats:
      There may be book deals involved.

    58. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 30 September, 2018 at 7:19 pm:

      ” … Indeed. So exactly why did they decide to pay anything towards legal bills in the first place? I genuinely don’t understand why they got involved at all.”

      Well then! Let’s think about it?

      I can come up with several Labour Party motives that all fit with their usual modus operandi.

      The most likely being they just couldn’t pass up a chance that they saw as getting one over on the Scottish independence movement.

      You must realise by now that to Labour, and the British/English nationalists in general, the entire independence movement are all of one mind and we are a just a cult that will just go away if the union stands firm and united against us.

      They see no difference between the SG/SNP and the SNP as a party. Same goes for any of the several and often of differing opinions of the other political movements and on-line indy bloggers including Wings, Wee Ginger Dug and the rest of the indy supporting movement including AUOB, which, by its very title should have been a clue for the Labour/British/unionist alliance that there are wide political differences but only one core solution – independence.

      They just do not recognise that the indy movement is painted with a very wide brush indeed.

      So to them Rev Stu is a symbol of the, “cult”, of independence that is at least around 50% of the Scottish electorate.

      Mind you it is getting that we on the indy side see the whole unionist cabal as no more than Blue/Red/Off Yellow Tory cult and it looks increasingly like they are indeed getting more and more like each other with every day that passes.

    59. Hatuey says:

      Great stuff. I think you should start the fund-raiser right away though, as a show of poker-faced resolve, and I’m sure I’m not alone in looking forward to making a contribution.

    60. Petra says:

      Well spotted Stephen (10:40pm). “Comment in the Skwawkbox post section.”

      You wonder if this will lead to further legal cases now? What a mess and all for a Labour politician slandering someone in defence of the Tories. You couldnae make it up, however seemingly someone did. Looks as though their wee plan has backfired.

      Check out Duncan Shipley-Dalton.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Shipley-Dalton

    61. Chris Kilby says:

      How long before The Record decides to cut its losses as well…?

    62. Petra says:

      Some excellent articles to check out here.

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com

    63. Effijy says:

      The slabering Daily Redcoat would normally
      Have articles like Deputy Dug’s checked to
      See that there was nothing in that could lead
      To some kind of legal action against them.

      They in printing the article should be equally held responsible.

      As Labiur’s main propaganda tool in Scotland, they have become
      Arrogant and complaisant due the degree and volume of deceptions
      And lies that they have printed over recent years.

      They love themselves for coming up with the biggest confidence trick
      Ever pulled on Scotland, “The Vow”.

      They even had the affrontery to print The Vow delivered even when
      Each and every promise was broken and their cohort Gordon Brown
      Spoke out to confirm the Vow was not delivered.

      The Redcoat can always make a few more redundancies to pay for
      Kezia’s court case and print a story about how they are helping their
      Workers to enjoy more leisure time.

    64. Effijy says:

      I/T I’m travelling around some Sei Lankan coastal towns st the minute,
      Some names I’ve never heard of but every one so far seem to have
      Invested in the new cranes on rails that load and unload these metal
      Shipping containers.

      The capital Colombo has a major Chinese investment going on right now
      To dramtically increase the capacity for cargo transportation.

      The thought occurred to me that I have not seen these type of cranes in operation
      Within our own Scottish cities?

      Have we been forced to become totally dependant on English Ports and then pay
      For the Trucking costs to deliver goods to and from England?

      Packing busy roads with pollution spouting vehicles must have a very negative impact
      On the environment as well as our economy.

    65. Capella says:

      @ effigy – lucky you! Re ports, AFAIK they were sold off to a Quatari sheik decades ago. They refurbished Tilbury docks in London but the Scottish ports have been left in decline. Also, the company charges too much for using the facilities. Very few ports in UK are deep enough for Chinese container ships, Portsmouth may be and also Liverpool.

      There was a very knowledgable comment about this in Bella Caledonia during the run up to the 2014 referendum by Alf Baird who knows the background and history. He advised developing a new Scottish port somewhere further north where you could have a deep water harbour. Unfortunately, I can’t access that article ATM but you may be able to search for it.

      But, if not, Mr Peffers will be up and about soon with some info on ports.
      Enjoy your holuday.

    66. yesindyref2 says:

      @Effijy
      Looks like Greenock has that (3 of them I think):

      https://www.peelports.com/news/2017/greenock-welcomes-its-largest-ever-container-vessel

      Peel Ports seem to be sistering Greenock and Liverpool with rail container connections, which might be good but might be bad, if it makes Liverpool the parent rather than the sister. Peel ports for instance are working with BAE for the T31 order, at Liverpool NOT Greenock though it has plenty of space. Ho hum.

      There were plans a decade or more ago for Hunterston to become a deep water port. The ship in the article above is 4,045 TEUs, there are supercontainer ships of 20,000 TEU off the top of my head, and really we want to be into that trade, receiving these supercontainer ships via the oprning Arcitc passages, and transferring to smaller ships like the one in the article, for onward shipping to other ports, in the UK and the rest of Europe.

      That definitely won’t happen without Independence.

    67. yesindyref2 says:

      TEU by the way is a standard 20 foot container (equivalent), you do get 40 foot containers as well, and smaller and taller ones.

    68. Petra says:

      @ Effigy at 3:35am …. ”I’m travelling around some Sri Lankan coastal towns at the minute.”

      Lucky you right enough Effigy. Enjoy.

      Is it this kind of crane that you’re talking about, Effigy?

      ‘PORT OF AYR CELEBRATES DELIVERY OF NEW STATE-OF-THE-ART CRANE TO IMPROVE OPERATIONS.’

      http://www.abports.co.uk/newsarticle/593/

      …………………………………….

      A list of ports in Scotland, England and wales. Check out who owns what.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ports_and_harbours_of_Scotland

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ports_in_England_and_Wales

    69. Petra says:

      Duncan Shipley Dalton’s comment on the Dugdale case. I would imagine that he knows what he’s talking about.

      …………….

      Duncan Shipley Dalton: ”This is very questionable. The express financial authority granted to the NEC is extremely oblique in the rules but the nearest is in Chap 1, Clause VIII, 3, K:

      “to organise and maintain such fund or funds as may be thought necessary for any or all of the objects for which the Party exists.”

      Those objects are detailed in Chapter 1, Clause I. It seems to me it is extremely doubtful that funding Kezia Dugdale’s legal costs falls within this sub section. In what sense was it necessary for the objects for which the Party exists?

      It is not required to have an express provision in the rules to provide for payment of legal expenses out of the mutual funds of the unincorporated association. They can be used to pay the legal fees due to claims made by or against officers or employees where it can be established that the association has a legitimate interest in the action, otherwise it may amount to unlawful maintenance. Hickman v The Kent or Romney Marsh Sheepbreeders Association (1920) 36 TLR 528 (KBD), and directly on point in Oram v Hutt [1914] 1 C 98 (CA) 103 it was held that an association has no common interest in an action for slander.

      Considering that the defamation was contained in a column in the Record Newspaper that was part of a private agreement between Kezia Dugdale and the Newspaper and was neither directly related to her position in Labour nor arguably ancillary to her Labour Party role and this is in fact confirmed in the letter from Jennie Formby who states in para #5:

      “…the column in question was written as part of a private arrangement between Kezia and The Record, and not in her capacity as Leader of Scottish Labour. The party had no involvement with the column and no oversight of the content so could not in any way be responsible for any consequences of comments made in the column.”

      it is my initial opinion that the Labour Party had no legitimate interest in the action and the expenditure may amount to unlawful maintenance and/or an ultra vires misapplication of funds.

      In an unincorporated association ultimate responsibility for the management and allocation of funds falls to the governing committee. In the Labour Party this is the NEC. The Party funds themselves do not belong to the Labour Party it is the members funds that are held in trust by the NEC. The NEC is ultimately therefore responsible for and accountable to the members for all expenditures and must act within the objects, rules and proper authority of the association. If the NEC, either itself, or through an agent acting with delegated authority acts outside of this it would be ultra vires expenditure and they can be held accountable, or even personally liable, to the membership for any resulting expenditures from the association’s funds. Burn v National Amalgamated Labourers Union of Great Britain and Ireland [1920] 2 Ch 364 (Ch), Bennett v National Amalgamated Society of Operative House and Ship Painters and Decorators (1915) 31 Times LR 203 (Ch).

      The letter from Jennie Formby seems to suggest 2 distinct financial decisions being made.

      1. A decision made by someone unknown to commit to initially fund Kezia Dugdale’s legal costs.

      2. A decision made, following the initial hearing, by Jennie Formby to further fund Counsels opinion.

      Regardless of who made the decisions they would have been made under the delegated authority of the NEC. These powers can be delegated by the NEC to the GS or onward by the GS under Chapter 1,VIII, 5 or VII,1, C to the NEC’s elected officers, committees, sub-committees, the General Secretary and other national and regional officials and designated representatives appointed by the NEC or the General Secretary.

      In consequence therefore if this expenditure on Kezia Dugdale’s legal costs was indeed ultra vires and thus unlawful the members are entitled to seek recovery from the individuals who were members of the NEC at the time the financial decisions were made. Any Party member or even prior member who was a member at the time of the decisions would in my view have standing to take action through the Courts to recover the expenditure from the relevant individual NEC members. The alternative might be for the Party to attempt to claw back the expenditure from Kezia Dugdale herself.

      Whichever way this is examined the sizeable expenditure cannot be properly justified and something must be done to seek recovery, whether through action by the NEC or in the alternative an ordinary Party member beginning litigation in the Courts.”

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_Shipley-Dalton

    70. Petra says:

      Wee Ginger Dug: ‘The Festival of Exit Britain.’

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/09/30/the-festival-of-exit-britain/

      …………………..

      ‘The Cheshire cat of politics.’

      …”So we are told that it is a credit to Ruth Davidson that she has made the fact that she’s a pregnant lesbian so unremarkable in a country where homosexuality wasn’t decriminalised until 1981. There’s still some way to go in ensuring full equality and acceptance for LGBT people in Scotland, but it is a testament to the good sense and humanity of the people of Scotland that in terms of legal protections and rights this country is now one of the best places in the world in which to be gay.

      But is this thanks to Ruth Davidson? Eh no.”…

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/09/29/the-cheshire-cat-of-politics/

    71. Petra says:

      Historic Environment Scotland refuses Yes walkers entry to Stirling Castle car park.’

      …”Police officers duly arrived and, after a conversation with the walkers, took no action.”..

      ..“Prior permission is required to hold any event at our Properties in Care. We receive many requests to hold such activity at our sites and each case is considered on an individual basis. If we become aware of unauthorised activity our staff ask people to move on from the site.”

      Under the Act which set up the quango – technically a non-departmental public body – Ministers delegate functions to the organisation but can over-rule the quango at any time.

      A Scottish Government spokesman said “it’s a matter for HES”.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16951511.500-mile-indy-walkers-banned-from-stirling-castle-car-park/

    72. Petra says:

      ‘SNP dismiss Labour ‘smokescreen’ claims over Alex Salmond case.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16951407.snp-dismiss-labour-smokescreen-claims-over-alex-salmond-case/

    73. yesindyref2 says:

      Yeah, a quick google give this from around 2002
      “Prospects for Hunterston as Container Hub”
      http://stsg.org/papers/hunterston.pdf

      this from around 2004
      “Container Transhipment and Demand for Container Terminal Capacity in Scotland”
      https://www.gov.scot/Publications/2004/09/19885/42552

      compared to this from 2016/17
      “Hunterston development signals industrial shift on Scotland’s West Coast”
      https://www.peelports.com/news/2017/hunterston-development-signals-industrial-shift-on-scotland-s-west-coast

      It’s not mutually exclusive all the same.

    74. yesindyref2 says:

      And Babcock at Rosyth in planning sage I think, no idea what size of container ships, but deepwater anyway. Good luck reading it!

      https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-courier-advertiser-perth-and-perthshire-edition/20170213/281517930870835

    75. Petra says:

      Is that the same Alf Baird (comments in the National) that you were talking about recently yesindyref2?

      Loads of (port) info here.

      ………………………..

      ‘Sort out our ports!’

      http://reidfoundation.org/2016/01/sort-out-our-ports/

      ………………….

      ‘SUBMISSION FROM PROFESSOR ALFRED BAIRD, Professor of Maritime Business, Transport Research Institute, Edinburgh Napier
      University 23rd February 2015.’

      http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EconomyEnergyandTourismCommittee/Inquiries/Professor_Alfred_Baird.pdf

      ……………………………….

      ‘Alfred J. Baird’s research works | Edinburgh Napier University …’

      http://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/2066598673_Alfred_J_Baird

      ……………………………..

      ‘Scotland Decides: shipping in an independent Scotland.’

      http://www.ukchamberofshipping.com/latest/scotland-decides-shipping-independent-scotland/

      ………………………………

    76. Alan Mackintosh says:

      I cant help but think something doesnt add up. Firstly its odd that Lab took over from the DRecord to fund the legal fees. Did they think it was a way to get one over on Wings and the wider Indy movement?

      Jennie Formbys letter indicates that they agreed to fund the initial thing and to seek a “drop hands” settlement, yet as Stu has said this was rejected several times. So somewhere, someone, was pushing this further than it needed to go, and with reasons to push it further.

      Was it Dugdale? perhaps egged on by Roden/ Clegg?

      The interest being shown elsewhere by those in Lab so far unaware of the case now promises to add a nerw element. The comment noted above by Shipley Dalton indicates that the fees paid to Dugdfale do not appear to be eligible expenditure by the NEC and allows for those sums to be recovered…

    77. Effijy says:

      Thanks to all regarding the cargo handling situation in Scotland.

      One of the link shows Grangemouth as our top port.
      The article suggests a £2 Million investment there,
      But it claims the money is to be spent on resurfacing.
      A new software handling system, a new 100,000 square foot
      Warehouse and new cranes???

      Are we buying all of those things from Del Trotter?
      That doesn’t stack up when I recall visiting a new
      Home purchased by a contact that cost £1.3 Million!

      Grangemouth it seems can handle 220,000 containers p.a.
      Colombo in 2017 handled 6,200 000.
      and the new Chinese investment in the port extension will
      Drive that up dramatically.

      Sri Lanka can’t forward cargo by road or rail to any other country.
      Scotland via the Channel Tunnel can reach the entire EU and beyond.

      To be fair on numbers, the population here is almost 4 times that of Scotland’s.

      I am very pleased to hear how proud the people are of breaking free
      Of the British government and taking control of their own finances and destiny.

      Although citizens have low wages in the Tea and Spiced industries
      They have a health service and education for all.
      University education is also free.

      Perhaps one day England might adopt this?

    78. Petra says:

      National Letters 2018: ‘DEMOLITION of Hunterston Quay should be halted.’

      ….’Now we have the Peel Ports group demolishing the Hunterston terminal, a world-class deep water port capable of berthing bulk carriers of up to 350,000dwt in size, with land behind that possibly could be used for major new developments in shipbuilding and steel production or processing.

      Peel Ports are also sitting in ownership of the Inchgreen dry dock on the Clyde, which facility I understand has the interest of Ferguson Marine in its future plans.

      The Peel Ports business lies within the Peel Group, whose majority shareholder is an Isle of Man-based tax-minimising company owned by John Whittaker.

      Mr Whittaker is an avowed supporter of the government’s Northern Powerhouse concept and his Peel Group is a major investor in shipbuilding, dockyards, etc in the north-west of England, especially Cammell Laird – competitor to Fergus Marine for ferries and also in a “teaming agreement” with BAE systems to bid for the build of Type 31e frigates in England.

      The Inchgreen drydock and the Hunterston terminal should be considered as major industrial assets for Scotland that could possibly be developed to our advantage.

      I would urge Holyrood to seek an immediate stop to the demolition of the Hunterston terminal and to engage with Peel Ports, Liberty Steel, Ferguson Marine and others to investigate the best future use for all Peel Ports facilities in Scotland.”

      Alan Adair, Blairgowrie.

      http://www.thenational.scot/community/16763534.letters-demolition-of-hunterston-quay-should-be-halted/

      ………………………………..

      ‘Scottish team develop eco-friendly slug-busting solution.’

      ”They are slimy, squidgy and amongst gardener’s biggest enemies.

      Now a trio of friends say they have developed a new weapon against the dreaded slug – and the environmentally friendly formula will fertilise your garden too.

      Produced in Oban, Slugzilla is said to be the first product of its kind.

      Billed as “natural, sustainable and responsible”, the pourable formula is made from seaweed sourced from the Hebrides and mixed with additional compounds from plant sources.

      Rather than kill the gastropods, it acts as a deterrent to keep them away from vegetable patches and leafy plants.”..

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16914493.scottish-team-develop-eco-friendly-slug-busting-solution/

    79. cyril mitchell says:

      Kezia slandering someone to defend a Tory.Well she did advice people to vote Tory to stop SNP at last election didn’t she?

    80. Petra says:

      Wee Ginger Dug: ‘The term ‘Unionist’ covers up what some of them really are.’

      …”Many of the favourite anti-independence arguments of the British state’s supporters flow from the lie of the Union. There’s the so-called UK single market, which we are told is vitally important to Scotland’s well-being. Oddly enough, despite the fact that it’s supposedly so important, no opponent of independence ever thought to mention it before 2016 as a Google search on the term “UK single market” will confirm.

      The term UK single market is a deliberate concoction, created with the intent of conflating the internal market of the unitary state of the UK with the very different political and economic beast that is the EU single market. The EU has a genuine single market, a trade deal created by the different regulatory bodies of the various EU states coming together and jointly agreeing a common framework which is mutually negotiated – and in theory at least – designed so that no one member of the single market can exploit the others.

      The UK has the market of a unitary state. Scotland has no input into the control over the macro-economic levers of the UK economy, over most tax policies, or most regulatory authorities. These are under the sole control of the British Government. Scotland has no formal representation as an equal member of the imaginary British family of nations. There are only Scottish MPs, who can be sidelined and ignored, and the Scottish Secretary of State, who wasn’t even informed of the progress of Brexit negotiations.

      The lie of the UK single market could only gain traction because it rests upon the lie of the Union. One lie builds upon another in British nationalist mythology. Another big lie of opponents of independence is that by virtue of opposing independence they are not nationalists.”..

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16916849.the-term-unionist-covers-up-what-some-of-them-really-are/

      ……………………………….

      ‘Scotland fans going to Israel should worry about Palestinians – not kilt pins.’

      …”How many Scotland fans and lovers of football know that Palestinian players are denied freedom of movement to attend their own matches? Israeli clubs based in illegal settlements meanwhile are allowed to play in the official league of the Israeli Football Association (IFA), a move complicit with violations of international law.”..

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16908835.scotland-fans-going-to-israel-should-worry-about-palestinians-not-kilt-pins/

    81. Rick H Johnston says:

      Kezia’s better together pal Ruth wriggler Davidson not happy on radio this morning.
      Roasted by Gary Robertson over dark money, p1 testing and Ross the radge Thompson.
      Apparently the 1m Scots who voted leave have to be respected but not the 66% who want to stay in the EU.
      UK majority good. Scottish majority bad..

    82. Petra says:

      @ cyril mitchell says at 8:10 am …. ”Kezia slandering someone to defend a Tory. Well she did advice people to vote Tory to stop SNP at last election didn’t she?”

      And she may have contributed to Corbyn losing the election. You can see how he has no time for her, between that and publicly running him down.

      Ian Murray’s (another opponent of Corbyn) keeping quiet this weather. Keeping his head down. Does he have anything to say about his pal Kezia Dugdale?

    83. Petra says:

      ‘UN told: Austerity is worse than ever in UK.’

      …”In 2016 the UN found UK welfare reforms had led to “grave and systemic violations” of disabled people’s rights. Yet experts in human rights and poverty claimed that the situation had worsened in the past two years, with cuts to public services compounding harsh welfare reforms, as well as tax expenditure decisions that further penalise the poor.”…

      “While we (Scotgov) will gain powers over 15% of social security spending we cannot reverse the £3.7 billion annual cuts imposed by the UK Government by 2021, which are set to take a stark toll on families and children.” This year it expects to spend over £125 million on welfare mitigation and measures to help protect those on low incomes.

      The UK Prime Minister’s office did not offer comment.”

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16950654.un-told-austerity-is-worse-than-ever-in-uk/

      …………………………

      Operating under a different legal framework? Just like the Scottish A&E figures versus English and prison officer assaults north and south of the border. High time the MSM pointed out the ”differences.” It’s like comparing apples to oranges, better still apples to melons.

      ‘Scotland’s drug dealing statistics flawed.’

      …”Dr Iain McPhee argues that their testimony effectively means that a smaller amount of drugs can be regarded as being for onward supply north than it does down south.

      Detective Chief Superintendent Gerry Mclean from Police Scotland told the Sunday National that forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland were operating “under a different legal framework”.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16950649.scotlands-drug-dealing-statistics-flawed/

    84. Craig Murray says:

      All of which assumes the Daily Record doesn’t go out of business before the appeal…

    85. Dorothy Devine says:

      het Rev Stu , someone in the Herald thinks you have raised 500,000 quid to use in the Dugdale court case.

      Now I know accuracy in the herald or indeed any other newspaper in the UK is a tad doubtful but perhaps you could disabuse the writer of the article , give him a LARGE correction to put in print .

      God knows why anyone still buys the appalling crap masquerading as journalism these days. Not as though its cheap moneywise only journalism wise!

    86. Legerwood says:

      Mark Smith’s column in the Herald today is on the topic of Kezia’s woes.

      It contains this little nugget:
      “”…Secondly, there’s the unpleasant sight of people who have the resources to fight a court case (Wings Over Scotland has raised over £500,000 from its followers) taking on people who do not””

      Wow. Was that the amount WoS raised to fight the case? Or has that the sum total raised over 4-5 years to keep the site going?

      I suspect it is the latter. Not a good idea for a columnist to massage the figures to suit his story especially when the story is about defamation

    87. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Should Stu not also have made a complaint to IPSO against the Daily Record who published Kezia’s piece? Under the previous IPC regulations publications were responsible for the legality and accuracy of anything they printed (including such as Readers Letters etc)? Perhaps that has changed.

      Meanwhile,in the unreal world,the relentless promotion of Ruthie continues. She is apparently pregnant.

      Time for the tattered remnants of the Labour Party in Scotland to understand where they should be on Scotland’s constitutional future – or just officially join the Tories in a coalition.

    88. Capella says:

      @ Effigy – here is a link to Alf Baird’s paper on developing Scotland’s ports.

      http://reidfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Economic-growth-Scottish-Ports.docx

    89. Collie says:

      Rick H Johnston

      Re: The one million Scots who voted to leave the EU.

      I would say a good half a million of those good people would now decide to Remain.

      The incompetent Tories have become the best recruiting sergeant for Scottish Independence we could ever have wished for.

    90. manandboy says:

      If you look closely, Austerity is just a re-make of The Clearances, both designed to get rid of the poor.
      Passed by Parliament in Westminster, supported by Labour. All perfectly legal.

    91. jfngw says:

      I think we all understand the media are not interested in the facts of the case, and I suspect they care even less about Dugdale. They want Dugdale to win because they detest this site and would like it shut down. They hate that fact that their lies are continually being outed and want a return to the days we just believed them, because there was no other outlets questioning their lies.

      This is the most successful independence site, if they can remove they will move onto the next one.

      Keep on seeing people on twitter posting with YAWN as their avatar, trying to work out what the acronym is, best I can came up with so far is Yoons Are White Nationalist, who knows. But it is good that they make it easier to spot those you need to block.

    92. manandboy says:

      According to John Boothman, remember him?, writing in the Times today, “Senior SNP figures are hoping that Kezia Dugdale, former Scottish Labour leader, may defect after her spectacular fallout with Jeremy Corbyn.”

      Boothman has the consistency of a squashed toad, but in this menial article, he is reduced to spitting at the SNP.

      Labour, reviled in Scotland alongside their Tory-UDA-DUP partners, allies, and electoral co-conspirators. All of them fellow collaborators in the Scottish Colonial project.

    93. Petra says:

      @ Rick H Johnston says at 8:45 am….”Kezia’s better together pal Ruth wriggler Davidson not happy on radio this morning. Roasted by Gary Robertson over dark money, p1 testing and Ross the radge Thompson. Apparently the 1m Scots who voted leave have to be respected but not the 66% who want to stay in the EU.
      UK majority good. Scottish majority bad..”

      Seems that Gary Robertson is the only one doing a decent job this weather.

      Anyone capable of getting that interview online, on here?

    94. galamcennalath says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:

      the relentless promotion of Ruthie continues

      It is astonishing that a politician who has basically spent the last couple of years hiding under the covers is given ‘kid gloves’ media coverage. She knows her party, elected representatives, and herself have some serious questions to answer and avoids being confronted. Yet she still gets the odd opportunity in front of cameras to say what she wants completely unchallenged.

      Conspiracy theories? No at all because there is vast evidence of actual conspiracy, no theories necessary.

    95. Collie says:

      My predictions are:

      There will never be another UK Westminster GE held in Scotland.

      And

      The next Holyrood elections to be held in Scotland will be to see which Party is voted in to Govern an Independent Scotland and who will become the first Prime Minister of Scotland.

    96. Petra says:

      Someone on the Herald (comments) trying to set the record, Mark Smith, straight.

      ‘Christine Howe 42 mins ago.’

      “”Secondly, there’s the unpleasant sight of people who have the resources to fight a court case (Wings Over Scotland has raised over 500,000 from its followers) taking on people who do not””

      Mr Campbell may indeed have raised that amount but, big BUT, it seems to be the aggregated total of the sums raised over a number of years in order to keep the Wings over Scotland site functioning – not the sum raised specifically to fight this case. If it had been I am sure it would have been front page news in the Herald – for several days at least.

      Given the context of this column accuracy, and editorial checking, should have been paramount.’

      …………………….

      The Herald is also reporting that, ”the dramatic legal bid to win the UK Parliament a right to revoke Article 50 which is due to be heard by the highest court in Europe is likely to succeed – raising the prospect of Brexit being halted before March next year, one of the nation’s leading experts on EU law insists – (Dr Tobias Lock, Director of European law post-graduate study at the Edinburgh Law School and author of The European Court of Justice and International Courts).”…

    97. Collie says:

      Is Ruth Davidson pregnant?

      Well I never…

      Hold the front page.

    98. jfngw says:

      Maybe it’s the Better Together team in its last desperate attempt to save the union. Make Labour so unelectable that the only unionist alternative is the Tories, turn Scotland into a two horse race. I’m pretty sure that Labour would sacrifice Holyrood if it preserved the union, removing democracy in Scotland would be a small price for them to pay.

      After all Davidson is very cocky, bordering on arrogant, that she will be the next FM. It can’t be through Tory support alone, nowhere near high enough, unless of course she already has access to the next election postal votes.

    99. Cod says:

      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-dreams-of-kezia-dugdale-defection-in-wake-of-wings-over-scotland-legal-case-row-zfqgpbj9m

      Errrr, no. Just, no. I can’t seriously believe anyone in the SNP would seriously consider letting this walking liability anywhere near the SNP. I mean, sure, it would be good for a few hilarious seconds for the opportunity to jab Hothersall, but, seriously? The woman is a walking political disaster, and she should be allowed nowhere near any form of media as an official SNP member. Ever. Full stop.

    100. Breeks says:


      Collie says:
      1 October, 2018 at 9:42 am
      Rick H Johnston

      Re: The one million Scots who voted to leave the EU.

      I would say a good half a million of those good people would now decide to Remain.

      The incompetent Tories have become the best recruiting sergeant for Scottish Independence we could ever have wished for.

      But are these people persuaded to back Europe by pro-EU narrative and information? Or are they merely blinkered BritNats who are beginning to doubt the horseshit they are being fed?

      I simply ask because there IS no pro-EU narrative happening, and it’s a damned disgrace that there isn’t.

      A disillusioned BritNat still needs shepherded to become a convert to Indy. If Labour suddenly adopts a pro EuroRef2 perspective, and it will, that’s where the disillusion will focus, and our meek and anemic Independence movement will have missed yet another open goal.

    101. mike cassidy says:

      £500,000!

      See what happens when you donate a blank cheque!

    102. HandandShrimp says:

      Surprised that Kezia hasn’t withdrawn her accusation of homophobia and apologised, citing her treatment by the Labour Party as contributing factor for not wishing to continue and thereby accruing the press sympathy vote which given the coverage so far seems only in the wings (so to speak) awaiting delivery.

    103. Valerie says:

      Been completely comatose with illness for over a week, so obviously having a massive catch-up.

      It’s still disbelief, anger and worry that we are in this position. It’s like deep diving sewage reading up on Labour and Tory. In England, the academia and EU commentators, I’ve followed for 2 years, are still hoping for change, still incredulous at every Tory filth.

      I’ve said many times, Scots have much more realism and experience, of what the Tories are, England are just waking up, and it will still take years, if they ever fully awaken to what is happening.

      So, before the Tory conference, they appoint a Minister for food supplies, and this week, the conference will be used by key senior Ministers, to dog whistle the Brexiteers, and attack the EU.

      Hunt’s comments, likening the EU to the Soviet Union, were carefully crafted to do two things. Rile up thick Brexiteers, and insult key EU politicians like Tusk and others, who have personal experience of the Soviet Union.

      Utter, utter scum.

    104. Valerie says:

      @ Cod

      On what grounds can you stop her joining the SNP? There is absolutely nothing to stop her joining as an ordinary citizen.

      She wouldn’t join as a politician. If Kez leaves Labour, she needs to give up being an MSP for Labour, because she sits as a List MSP.

      I have no objection to her potential membership, unless there happens to be some criminality we know nothing about. That’s hypothetical.

    105. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra
      Yes probably, he writes some very good postings but sometimes gets on his hobby horse about settlers in Scotland, and gets his figures totally wrong on the English in Scotland which he says are a million rather than around 360,000, and persists even when it’s pointed out that even if 50,000 do come in each year, 45,000 leave! Or something like that, can’t be bothered rechecking the census data for accurate figures.

    106. Petra says:

      @ Cod says at 10:15 am …. ”Errrr, no. Just, no. I can’t seriously believe anyone in the SNP would seriously consider letting this walking liability anywhere near the SNP. I mean, sure, it would be good for a few hilarious seconds for the opportunity to jab Hothersall, but, seriously? The woman is a walking political disaster, and she should be allowed nowhere near any form of media as an official SNP member. Ever. Full stop.”

      http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-dreams-of-kezia-dugdale-defection-in-wake-of-wings-over-scotland-legal-case-row-zfqgpbj9m

      We’re talking about the Times here, Cod, and the usual ”unknown sources”. Take it all with a pinch of salt.

      If she wants to vote for Independence, that’s another thing altogether.

    107. Dr Jim says:

      *Black 47*

      Is a movie about Ireland, I won’t do spoilers but watch it if you can and maybe those who have any doubts of what the * British* are what they think of others and what they’re capable of might have a wee rethink

      You’ve all seen stuff like it before I’m sure but this one just left me sitting in silence by the end

      I believe the money that made it came from Luxemburg and the EU, I didn’t catch all of the credits

    108. galamcennalath says:

      Petra says:

      If she wants to vote for Independence, that’s another thing altogether.

      Exactly. If she announces she will vote YES, or is even willing to campaign for YES that’s great.

      Joining the SNP is not a good idea. Even if she was a normal member, she would still be targeted to make comment by the media. She would put her foot in it for sure and be quoted.

      Perhaps the Greens or Scottish Socialists would have her. Frankly though, the Tories would be the best bet. They accept anyone regardless of who they are, or their views.

    109. gus1940 says:

      Yet again a talking head from The Spectator on The Daily Politics.

      How long till the Tories privatise The BBC and flog it off to the loathesome Barclays and their Britnat lackeys such as Brillo?

    110. Bob Mack says:

      Kezia cannot defect to the SNP , at least for now. She is totally reliant on the Daily Record maintaining her defence fees, and I do not think that particular publication would take her SNP defection well.

      Daily Record defends SNP member. I think not.

    111. Frank Gillougley says:

      @ Dr Jim 11.35,

      The other visual portrayal of the brutality of the British was of course particularly the first half of the film ‘The wind that shakes the barley’ by Ken Loach and Paul Laverty.

      it was truly Goya-like in its depiction of the black and tans.

      Well worth seeing.

      Harrowing.

    112. Shinty says:

      @ Dr Jim,

      Haven’t seen it yet, saw Grouse Beaters review.

      Just think poor Ireland had colonial rule for 800 years, we’ve only had it for 311. One day our stories will be told to the world too (plenty to choose from)

    113. orri says:

      Did the Daily Record not have any duty of care as far as Dugdale was concerned? There must be a higher than normal chance of being sued for something you write. Especially when it’s an opinion column. I’d assume most reporters get some kind of training in how to write in such a way as to minimise, if not avoid, that. Not to mention a sub editor should have given it a once over.

    114. Andy MacNicol says:

      I actually feel very sorry for Kezia Dugdale. I really believe that her heart is very much in the right place, and in that respect she has a lot in common with Mhairi Black. She has managed to manoeuvre herself into a very difficult position by her own naïvety. Having been put into position as an MSP, she should have settled for that and learned the ropes before trying to progress her career. She stood for and won a position as leader of Labour in Scotland when it was obvious to all that she was not up to that job.

      When she left that position, she should have sat back and taken stock of her future, but she believed she had a lot more to offer and I am sure she has.

      She has been led on by the Labour Party which has to take a lot of the blame for her present predicament by failing to support her.

      This should be a wake up call to her. In her shoes, I would be offering a grovelling apology to Wings, hoping it is accepted, and looking to further any political ambitions in a party where talent is nurtured and encouraged to work for the good of Scotland and its people. There is only one party which fits that bill and it sure as hell isn’t the Labour Party.

    115. orri says:

      Once she was Deputy Dug. She got the Leadership when el Jimbo scarpered.

    116. Ottomanboi says:

      Davidson is billed as representing Scotland. Did she actually mention Scotland? Did she explain Scots voted substantially to stay in the EU and that support has grown since the Brexit ref.? Did she remind the English that their party is only third in Holyrood and that independence has not gone away? Did she point out that Scottish politics is no longer Westminster focussed? Ay right! thought not…..Standing ovation WOW!
      Keep the grand delusion going Ruth!

    117. If Dugdaie is allowed to join the SNP after the things she has said about them then I am sure many members will resign in disgust before she joined labour she tried to get a job in the SNP and was refused that was a good call ???

    118. Liam says:

      Andy MacNicol says:
      1 October, 2018 at 1:54 pm

      I actually feel very sorry for Kezia Dugdale. I really believe that her heart is very much in the right place, and in that respect she has a lot in common with Mhairi Black. She has managed to manoeuvre herself into a very difficult position by her own naïvety.

      Totally agree. As for her joining the SNP, Why no?

      “There shall be more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth” — Luke 15:7

      “It’s probably better to have [her] inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.” — Lyndon Johnson

    119. Fred says:

      Kezia Dugdale has nothing in common with Mhairi Black, she’s as daft as a brush & couldn’t be trusted to run a raffle!

    120. Gary says:

      Count me IN for the fundraiser!! Thanks for putting the unionists on the ropes again. Extra toilet roll already bought by the branch office!

    121. Christian Schmidt says:

      For what it is worth I still find your original comment in bad taste, because (1) Oliver Mundell cannot chose his dad and (b) David Mundell sexuality has nothing to with his son. (And there have been plenty of other occasions where Stuart pushed back hard.) Still, Ms Dugdale is just wrong, and offensive, and while for the reasons outlined above I don’t think there will be a big payout, I’d have sued too.

      My takeaways from the letter seems to be (a) they realised their chances are low and try to limit costs and (b) it is still a very dysfunctional and mean-spirited party. I mean, she wrote in her ‘private capacity’ and the party had no sign-off? For god’s sake she was the leader! As Neil Kinnock acknowledged many years ago, as leader you don’t have private views and whatever you say the party says. And a leader needing signing off – if you want to know what those various lefty groups never get anywhere, that’s as good a summary as any. And she didn’t say ‘thanks’ – what petty comment is that?

      I bet the SNP leadership were falling about laughing when they read that letter…

    122. Gary says:

      What is also interesting is that this is a decision made on cold, hard facts NOT just a ‘brush off’ from Corbyn because he ‘doesn’t like her’

      In reality it sounds like mixed messages and bad communication between Dugdale and the outgoing Chairman, she may, of course, have heard what she WANTED to hear or he may have not specified ENOUGH what he was offering to her, perhaps just a general ‘we’ll back you up’

      For Labour this SHOULD kill the story about how ‘Leonard should stand up to Corbyn’ firstly, as it’s nothing to do with Corbyn and secondly, when interviewed, Leonard HAD taken this up with ‘head office’

      The BBC however hate Corbyn almost as much as they hate you, Stu! So this part of the story will go unreported.

      For ‘The Record’ I can see their point. They want to be ‘seen’ to be backing their columnist come what may. So, despite it being good money after bad, it may be worth their while. They may, I don’t know, have indemnified against this? Perhaps this IS actually covered by insurance these days, who knows? Although I doubt it, it isn’t they who are being sued, is it?

      But despite Labour’s lack of confidence in her case, strange things happen at court. I once was involved in a Civil Case in Oban where the Sheriff decided to literally break the law in his findings, and, you’ve guessed it, nothing could be done about it. SO, just who will adjudicate on this? And how will THEIR feelings come into play. I have more confidence in the Scottish Courts than those in England, but that’s not saying much, is it?



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