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Wings Over Scotland

Counting With James Kelly MSP

Posted on February 19, 2019 by

Alex Cole-Hamilton’s reign was the shortest on record.

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775 to “Counting With James Kelly MSP”

  1. Hamish100 says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    21 February, 2019 at 8:41 pm
    @Tinto Chiel
    A far better summary than some of the anti-teacher stuff I’ve seen.
    Some, no idea how many, do unpaid overtime, quite a lot, at home, preparing for lessons, and also spend their own money on materials (I know this for a 100.00000% certainty having been involved the odd occasion).
    What it should be about is being paid for unpaid hours, and getting expenses paid. Plus a more normal pay rise across the board.

    I know care workers getting paid an awful lot less and with 20 days leave and still do extra for the people they care for- unpaid. They also take a wee tasty bite into the folk they care for. Should they have a smaller wage rise to help the teachers? Give us all a break.

  2. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Before we shift to the next page and/or another post from Rev, yer occasional reminder about the gathering in Glasgow on March 2nd, Dows Bar, Dundas St, at Queen St station, from late aternoon until closing. More details on OT, just ask, and if you’re definitely coming please let me know so’s we can keep a tab on likely numbers.

    So far, 50 confirmed, likely turnout nearer 80, could be a lot more. We’re doing our own food and music, DJ etc. It’s a week on Saturday, so if you have to set about travel/accommodation arrangements please think about it now.


  3. Sinky says:

    Didn’t take long for new Independent party to get BBC Question Time gig

  4. Capella says:

    @ yesindyref2 – BBC reports The Scottish government said it was the best pay deal for any public sector worker in the UK, offering a 9% rise by April and a further 3% next year.

    So 12% overall.

  5. cynicalHighlander says:

    The constitution seems to be a pigs breakfast as is the connivence of labour and the EIS. Brexit well that is swill gone off that it is honking that ones sanity is under undue pressure.

    Beam me up Monty Python.

  6. geeo says:


    Scotland was clearly not extinguished, because the Treaty of Union created a Union of 2 equal partner kingdoms.

    Act of Union: long title (English version)

    “An Act for a Union of the Two Kingdoms of England and Scotland”.

    Act of union: long title (Scottish version)

    “Act Ratifying and Approving the Treaty of Union of the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England

    Then of course, if a unitary state was created, why would it need 2 completely seperate legal systems ?

    It is not even a debate to be honest.

  7. robbo says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says:
    21 February, 2019 at 8:16 pm
    See this?

    That’s a scam Brian -been around for a while.

  8. galamcennalath says:

    Just looking at a thread from WoS Twitter about what ‘no deal’ means.

    I keep seeing similar. Anecdotes that there are people, possibly a lot of them, who actually believe ‘no deal’ means ‘no Brexit’.

    Sounds outrageous, yet so much UK Tory derived politics is utterly outrageous anything could be true!

  9. boris says:

    21 February, 2019 at 5:38 pm

    CameronB Brodie wrote: boris; Given the links to Rwanda, any connection to Vote No Borders? Wasn’t their public face involved in public relations for the reconstruction efforts in Rwanda, following the genocide?

    The answer is yes, very much so:

    “Fiona Gilmore, is the chairwoman of London based, (brand image change marketing company) Acanchi. She is also actively involved in business activities with Malcolm Offord, the Scottish born, London based Tory rich boy, “City fund manager” who ardently promoted ten years of Tory austerity, taking care to ensure the Tory Party was cared for through a £100k+ donation. And he looked after his old pal Michael Gove, giving him a large financial donation to aid his election campaign.

    Acanchi, one of the most powerful marketing companies in the world, maintains close contact with the UK government ensuring a no-barrier approach to its marketing activities with foreign governments and has advised the governments of Lebanon, Zambia, Bahrain, Isle of Man, Dominican Republic, Mauritius, Rwanda, Dubai and Israel. The company has also advised on positioning strategies for country flagship brands, including Dubai’s World Expo 2020 bid and Israel’s Fuel Choices Initiative. Most recently, Acanchi developed and ran the ‘Vote No Borders Campaign’, a political campaign for a “No” vote in the 2014 Scotland Referendum.

    Gilmore and Acanchi, assisting the efforts of state, were instrumental in exposing Africa to World Wide marketing, starting with Rwanda. The image of the country was badly tainted, being linked to many years of death, genocide, hunger and despair. And Gilmore refocused her campaign strategy on strengths linked to Rwanda’s image, enabling it to become a model of progress and political and economic stability in both the public and private sectors. But, the positive image was a concoction of “smoke and mirrors” providing cover for a regime just as tainted with corruption as in the past with one saving grace. Its leader was heavily indebted to the UK and USA guaranteeing access to the richest minerals in Africa.”

  10. Dr Jim says:

    It’s not a Firemans job to run into burning buildings but they do it
    It’s not a policemans job to put himself at more risk of death than anyone else but they do it
    It’s not a soldiers job to get killed but they do it
    It’s not a nurses job to clean bed pans or tolerate abuseve patients but they do it

    Because there isn’t a real monetery value can be put on service

    Teachers knew what the job entailed before they took it now Unions are telling them it’s not their job to do it

    Scotland has offered the Teachers as much money as they possibly can for the job they were doing which Teachers say they now don’t want to do unless they get even more money

    Teachers could join the Fire service the Police the NHS or indeed the Army who have all accepted the pay rises they were offered, but of course Teachers for the most part wouldn’t qualify to join any of those services and knowing what we now know about they and their Unions motives we wouldn’t want them would we

    For the most part Teachers have spent their entire lives in school, first as children in nursery or primary school, then as children in High School then as older children in colleges or Universities then they become grown up children being taken as mugs by unscrupulous Unions who treat them exactly what they are a bunch of children still stamping their feet in the supermarket over their Mums not giving them what they want

    Do the job or get out and get a real job, you’ll soon be back teaching again, I guarantee it

    One more thing, these wage rises are coming out of the pockets of the rest of the people in Scotland and I for one don’t want to be poorer to pay them anymore

    Mercenaries agree a fee then do the job they don’t stop halfway through and demand more because they know there are always other mercenaries that makes them more moral than teachers, because teachers think they’re irreplaceable and so do their Unions who are only making mugs of them for their own politics and the child teachers are going along with it

    I’m probably more qualified to teach than most of the teachers I have ever met in my life but I don’t possess the personality and patience for it so I did something else

    Do something else teachers I’m bored with your behaviour

    At this point I would normally duck as the brickbats begin to fly, but no chance this time, enough’s enough with these people

  11. Legerwood says:

    Capella @ 10.10pm

    Dr Jim @ 10.48 pm

    Absolutely spot on.

  12. Bill Glen says:

    Members of the Scottish Secondary Teachers Association (SSTA) have voted to accept the offer of a 9 per cent rise as of April and a further 3 per cent rise next year.

    The SSTA consultative ballot closed at noon today, with 64 per cent of members voting to accept the latest teacher pay offer based on a turnout of 76 per cent. Around a third of voters said they would be prepared to strike to seek an improved offer. But are overuled by the EIS

  13. Cubby says:

    BBC Reporting Scotland tonight.

    A long piece was broadcast on all the sectarian problems that have been occurring at football matches in recent times. A plea was made for something to be done about it but the final words were of hopelessness – that it has existed for a long time and will probably continue. ” Little really changes.” ” An age old problem with it seems no new problems.”

    Not a single mention was made of the repealed law OBFG. No mention of Kelly and his fellow Britnats assisted by the greens being told that by removing this law it would send the wrong signal to all the sectarian bigots. I would say this was astonishing, but sadly it is not, it is Reporting Scotland after all, the broadcaster that NEVER says a bad or critical word about the British Nationalist parties in Scotland. Propaganda by omission. The report implied the Scotgov had done nothing about it.

    The media in Scotland truly are anti Scotland.

  14. yesindyref2 says:

    @Legerwood / @Capella
    Strange. I’ll hve to try find out where I got that idea from!

  15. manandboy says:


    “However, it is only responsible for Government to prepare for all eventualities.”

    Published 21 February 2019 From:
    Department for International Trade, The Rt Hon Liam Fox MP, and George Hollingbery

    The avalanche, which is the English Establishment’s self-destruction, continues unimpeded. The dissolution of the United Kingdom is now as sure as Summer follows Spring. Independence for Scotland, together with a United Ireland, is close at hand.

  16. sandy says:


    Oliver Mundell today at FMQ. “My dad says”. (vote for Tmay’s deal).

    If you don’t, my dad will come round & bash your dad.

  17. jezza says:

    The sooner we rid our nation of the English establishment the better.

    We are England’s last financially viable Colony and they won’t give us up without a dirty down in the dirt fight.

  18. Tinto Chiel says:

    “I’m probably more qualified to teach than most of the teachers I have ever met in my life but I don’t possess the personality and patience for it so I did something else”

    Clearly and thankfully, Dr Jim. Your simply insulting and stereotypical comments ignore the very large minority of teachers who strongly disagree with Flanagan. 57% of teachers (or thereabouts) does not constitute a strong position for the EIS, as I said above, and is probably a poisoned chalice, had he the sense to see it.

    Please don’t use such a broad brush for your rants, which I usually find amusing.

  19. P G McLaughlin says:

    @Dr Jim 10.48

    Very well said

  20. jezza says:

    Are Scots BritNats wannabe Englishmen.

    It’s as if they detest the very idea of being a Scot.

  21. CameronB Brodie says:

    Thanks for that reassurance I’m not imagining things. If you’ve not already done so, you might want to check out the nature of work Acanchi have done in Israel, rebranding “white settler colonialism”.

  22. Fireproofjim says:

    Sorry if this has been said before, but the teachers union leaders are Labour Party stalwarts to a man and would do anything to make the SNP look bad.
    The best offer any public service group has received in years is rejected simply because the Labour stalwarts want to see teachers marching on the streets with anti SNP banners.
    It was similar when the unions brought out the Glasgow women workers just as the SNP had almost completed the rectifying of forty years of Labour’s injustice. It was just to smear the SNP.

  23. Effijy says:

    Oliver Mundell today at FMQ. “My dad says”. (vote for Tmay’s deal).
    If you don’t, my dad will come round & bash your dad.

    Think you got that wrong?
    My Dad with no talent got this job for his son with no talent,

    so please Vote for TMay with no talent.

    If you don’t my Dad will come round your house and fluff up your pillows and threaten to resign again, just as soon as he finds out what that resign actually means?

    Vote Labour in Scotland and get another Tory government with one MP to be the Scottish Secretary who will steal and degrade your country at every opportunity!

  24. HYUFD says:

    Jezza Are English Unionists who back the UK wannabe Scots who hate being English? It is not impossible to be English, Welsh and Scottish and want to keep the UK together

  25. Iain.mhor says:

    @LizG 9:24pm

    I’m sure the Gina Miller case established WM Parliament’s sovereignty and supremacy over the devolved ‘legislatures’ to the extent that Scotland was to have no input or consultation on Article 50 at all. Like yourself I cannot recall exactly but I’m sure that was the general gist.
    I don’t recall it settling the core constitutional issue at all, nor that the Treaty was ‘live’ That was referenced as background to the historical creation of the UK Parliament and then tangentially, the powers and machinery subsequently accrued by it. But it did not address the crux of the matter. The UK of GB and its Parliament, gained its powers and retains its powers via the Treaty and Acts, but their contentious argument remains, that it was at the expense of the Kingdoms and the Treaty and everything hanging off it is no longer “live”

    The issue of seperate Scots law and historically it’s ‘Claim of Right is acknowledged because in a fit of absence of mind, they have not got around to amending it. The Acts and Treaty as incorporated into UK legislation, have already been amended, many times. The UK Parliament still reserves the right to do so, on the basis that there is no-one left to “bring complaint” and the creatiin of the new state and the powers invested in it, means it is now the supreme arbiter of whether to “Amend or alter such regulations as they see fit” They have done and a good many Acts also, with impunity. Even a cursory reading of the Treaty & Acts will bear witness to that.

    Now I’m no apologist for all this, but I am still of the view the issue has not been settled. It has been toyed with, it has been prodded peripherally and the many inconsinstencies argued over. It remains the case though, that Scotland does not take a “Legal” route to Independence, but favours a referendum route because the hearing, proof and judgement will domestically be in the kiddy-on Supreme Court. Again we are in Longshanks territory and if taken to a higher International Court, then it is still a legal gamble.

    However, as I, you and others (and apparently the Supreme Court in Case Law views it) in Scotland, sovereignty lies with the people (Claim of Right etc) and should they declare it, Scotland claims it. But even these are Case Law – to be used in ‘guidance’ not definitive.
    Now the part after the Declaration of Independence falls back into their legal wranglings over ‘extinctions’ and “Sevco Scotland” that is to say – there will be no argument that Scotland is Independent, but there will be the old argument around how it should be ‘Treated” A new state or Auld Scotia? That is when the issue will finally be settled – during those fisticuffs in frederick street – it’s not in the current UK’s interest to settle that beforehand.

    Anyway, always a pleasure to knockabout constitutional issues before bedtime – ta all.

  26. Cubby says:


    “It is not even a debate to be honest”. Spot on comment. It’s almost like debating whether or not Glasgow is on the river Clyde – its what is also called a no brainer.

  27. yesindyref2 says:

    I’m with Capella, though it’s primary I was talking about.

    Teaching methods have changed since I were a lad, but with a little brushing up on the new ways, I was very good at maths, I’ve done a little tutoring, so I’m sure I could teach maths to higher and even advanced higher level.

    To a class of 25-30 pupils, all motivated, all alert, all of similar abilities, all well disciplined and well fed, and none with special needs. And with nothing apart from normal school reports once a year or even term to worry about in the paperwork department. And of course with texts, aids and all that stuff, all provided.

    Now let’s wake up and turn to reality.

  28. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. keeping the UK together. In order to respect the inalienable human rights of those living in each nation that is signatory to the Treaty of Union, some mechanism would need to be devised to enable the sharing of power. Given that 300 odd years have passed since Yoonyawn, and there only being days until Brexit, I see little chance of such constitutional re-design being achieved in the time available. Subsequently, if the UK continues to exist post-Brexit, it will not represent the state formerly known as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but the new state of Greater England.

    Not in my lifetime.

  29. yesindyref2 says:

    I forgot a couple. All with relatively happy home lives, people who care, and clean in themselves with regularly cleaned clothes in good condition.

  30. yesindyref2 says:

    The offer from the Scottish Government and Cosla was three per cent from April last year with a further three per cent from January this year, an additional three per cent in April and another three per cent in April next year. ” (Herald)

    which is not the same as “a 9% rise by April and a further 3% next year”

    it would be more accurate to say “a 9% rise FROM April and a further 3% THE YEAR AFTER next year”.

    Which gives a total of 6% for this (tax) year, 3% for next year, and a 3% for the year after next.

  31. HYUFD says:

    Cameron B Brodie The England that has no Parliament of its own unlike Scotland while both still send MPs to Westminster?

  32. Tinto Chiel says:

    Unless the quotation in the press is wrong, that is my reading of it too, yesindyref2. A fair but not excessive offer which will place a lot of pressure on Flanagan if/when he pushes for strike action.

    Don’t think he’ll get much change out of the SG now.

  33. Wee Alex says:

    As a former trade unionist, now retired, I say to the Scottish Government withdraw your offer to EIS. Revise your offer, Offer them what everyone else has had to accept. I never thought I’d be saying this but they must be mad.

    They have been offered a great deal, they have no public support and if they think withdrawing their labour will get them any public sympathy, they live in cloud cuckoo land.

    Making parents take time off work is sheer madness.

  34. Liz g says:

    Iain mhor @ 11.50
    Tis a pleasure indeed,when ye find this stuff fascinating..
    Not so much if ye don’t 🙂
    Anyhoo… Goodnight… Sleep well..
    And in the morning…for your perusal!

    I agree that – the Supreme Court did not address the 1707 Treaty – specifically -, it didn’t, because it wasn’t asked to…
    It “heard” an argument that includes it…. That’s what makes it IMO real,,, as in,,, not an Auld Fantasy…(the British Nationalist line)
    This Court,can decide for itself,what it will and will not allow to be “heard”…

    That’s the issue,I’m talking about… “in this instance” this makes the 1707 Treaty recently acknowledged by the Westminster Supreme Court,,, Westminster’s own Court as indeed a real thing…I

    Therefore the Treaty cannot now be dismissed as having no revelance/place in the argument!!
    The TREATY exists as a LIVE document and cannot be set aside as a foolish thing the Scots hang on to… As has been,and will be surely tried by the British Nationalists!!!
    Just sayin Iain 🙂

    And IMHO that court will never agree to “hear” the question we need answered!
    That Court is not part of the solution,it’s part of the problem..

  35. geeo says:

    Well said Liz-g. (1.00am)

    As i said earlier, with the law, its not what you think, its what you can prove.

    And as you so eloquently put it, we have not only irrefutable proof of our arguments, we have proof from WM and their Supreme court.

    As i also said, its not even a debate.

  36. CameronB Brodie says:

    Where’s the new Treaty confirming the new state? What legal status does it confer to Scottish residents. When was that consulted and debated?

    You do understand democracy and human rights are the foundations of liberal society?

  37. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 12.04
    Not if I’ve a thing to do with it either Cameron!
    This Union has only ever been “smoke & mirrors” ..
    They are tryin to put together a “Vow 2 ” in the Lord’s..
    All full of very lovely words about how we ALL need to approve it !!
    And right there, tucked away in it, is the .. Nothing About This Act Dilutes The SOVEREIGNTY of the Westminster Parliament…..

    So no change there then??
    Or Mibbi there is?

    It will have Scotland vote to have Westminster Sovereign,and once and for all,deny “this Holyrood Parliament” any claim to the Sovereign will of the Scottish People..
    All Scottish Sovereignty in this arrangement has to pass through Westminster.

    This, I think, was to be the Devo Max option in the likely event of a 2nd Indy Ref. ( Brexit hadn’t been conceived of yet)
    It is punted as a NEW Act of Union… But
    And it’s A Bit But…
    It is NOT a New TREATY of Union..
    They never offer that…
    Wonder Why 🙂 🙂 🙂

  38. HYUFD says:

    Cameron B Brodie What has a new state got to do with anything given Jezza said you cannot be Scottish and British and will never change his mind whatever Treaty is made or even if Brexit were reversed? In fact Scot land has its own Parliament and sends MPs to Westminster too and plenty of Scots are happy with that and proud to be Scottish and British

  39. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scottish Scotland’s residents

  40. CameronB Brodie says:

    That’s largely because they are as ill-informed about the matter as you appear to be.

  41. Meg merrilees says:

    Sandy and Effijy

    maybe Oliver Mundell’s dad did say to vote for T May’s deal but being the tory worm that he is he chose to say it like this:

    Mr Mundell said he agreed that no-deal would be “extremely bad for Scotland”, adding: “It has the potential for chaos and disruption in our economy and I believe actually it is a threat to the United Kingdom.
    “That is why we need to stop it, and that is why the Scottish government’s SNP MPs at Westminster need to vote to stop a no-deal.
    “There is no point saying a no-deal is really bad for Scotland and then doing everything you possibly can to bring it about. I’m determined to stop it.”
    He claimed the SNP realise a no-deal Brexit is a “threat” to the unity of the UK and “that’s why they are contriving to bring it about, by, on every opportunity, supporting a no-deal Brexit in votes”.

    Lies, damned lies and more damned lies…. he knows that a coupe of weeks ago the SNP brought an amendment to the House in an attempt to prevent a ‘NO deal’ and all the Scottish Tories voted against it. Total hypocrite.

    This lad’s dad is a total bag of hot air.

    The Magnanimous BBC goes on to say that :

    The SNP argues that the country is not facing a straight choice between Mrs May’s deal and no deal, and that other options are still possible – including holding another EU referendum…. no mention of cancelling or extending Article 50.

    I read today that Spain is insisting that the ‘colonial’ reference to Gibraltar stays in the Brexit paperwork and if WM does not agree it will veto Brexit!!! HA ha ha – loads more turns to go yet folks.

  42. Chick McGregor says:

    Re the older comments, FWIW, I think Daisy was generally pretty close to the mark.

    Hats off, in fact.

  43. yesindyref2 says:

    @Tinto Chiel
    I think it’s a fair offer and thought so 3 (?) weeks ago when it was made.

    But it’s the accuracy of the reporting I’m complaining about. The offer from Mackay last year way back last budget, Feb/March 2018 was 3% up to £30,000, 2% over that, for the year 2018 to 19. EIS demanded 10%.

    So for the media to say “it’s near” is wrong. Very far wrong. They’re making it sound as though 9% has been offered in comparison to the 10% demanded. But that’s not true.

    What has been offered is 3% for most of 2018/19 (instead of 10%), a total of 6% for the last 3 months of 2018/19 (instead of 10%), and a further 3% for 2019/20 – which is NOT in 2018/19 – the year the union demand was for.

    I think it’s a fair offer, but it’s way short of what EIS demanded.

    It’s curious, on this the media seem to be anti-teachers and anti-EIS – and pro SNP Scottish Government! And distorting the history to favour the Scot Gov.

  44. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 1.34
    This HYUFUD is here to play Cameron.
    Most of us,and particularly you are more than fit for him,but he appeared when you were not posting so much,so you may not know the history..
    Play if ye want to!
    We’re not campaigning yet.
    But be prepared for a waste of time 🙂
    Are you coming to the night out… I’ll tell ye all about it!

  45. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    It’s well sussed Liz, I was simply using one of the master’s tools to dismantle the master’s house. I’ll probably do so again, at some time in the future. 😉

  46. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g
    Oops. I’ll do my very best to come along.

  47. Liz g says:

    Cameron B Brodie @ 2.02
    I hope the see ye there my friend 🙂
    Anyhoo… Play if ye want to get “stuff” out there… But be aware that HYFUD has been so thoroughly discredited that most just scroll on by… Your too nice,but,pity is not a good pathway to reality… Aye! Take care of you Cameron 🙂

  48. Dr Jim says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    You’re a nobody with a nobody’s opinion the same as me but when expressing that nobody’s opinion your attempt at being patronising says more about the depth of your opinions than anybody else’s and whether you or anyone else is thankful I did not enter the teaching profession is another attempt at sarcasm that filled what you thought was your clever post and certainly worthy of someone who is or is connected to a primary school teacher and has decided to be offended on your own or their behalf

    If I decided to insult someone it would be much more obvious than what I did say, because I’m an adult and would do it in an adult fashion

  49. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    The curious thing is that, if I have this right, you, me AND Tinto Chiel think the offer is a fair deal, and the best available.

    We just have different ways of putting it.

  50. Skintybroko says:

    Many teachers accepted the deal and probably the majority taking all unions into account, it is the extreme left that are pulling the strings.

    Striking will only have the effect of alienating the teachers further from the public who pay their wages, a more effective way would be to work to rule, no taking papers home to mark, no development at home etc., there are a lot of hard working teachers who do go the extra mile but that will be forgotten and they will all be tarred with the same brush due to a bunch of extremists.

    Like almost public sector employees Teachers also get an excellent pension on top of their salary which will pay our 3-4 times more than the equivalent private sector pension – that is unsustainable and the government should be looking to pay good wages but pensions must be looked at – give them their 10% but cap the pensions once staff get to a certain level.

  51. Undeadshaun says:


    Wrong attitude to pensions, what should be done is reinstate tax breaks on pensions that broon removed.
    And raise everyone’s pensions to nhs/teachers. Rather than a tory race to the bottom.

  52. Undeadshaun says:


    Both of these pension schemes were reformed and 8 to 9% of income is deducted for pension.

    A tory race to bottom is wrong!

  53. Undeadshaun says:

    What may happen with teachers is that they will change membership to one of the unions supporting the pay rise.

  54. Dr Jim says:


    Of course you’re absolutely correct and you’re expressing that right to comment in a polite and non patronising way to other posters as you have just demonstrated, and in a conversational fashion with no offence extended to anyone, and when folk comment in the way you have just done in reply to another poster with no friction intended then the comment is or should be accepted by others as well intentioned no matter the opinion pro or anti

  55. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    Not sure if you’re not being sarcastic, but yeah, basically 😎

  56. Dr Jim says:

    Good Morning Scotland reviews the papers and describes the front page of The National as pro indy groups complaining they weren’t contacted about appearing on the new BBC channel despite an application form being online

    What the BBC radio show Good Morning Scotland deliberately go to great pains to avoid saying is the complaint by Pro Indy groups was that the Anti Independence group Scotland In Union WAS contacted by the BBC to appear and NO ONE from any pro Indy group was

    The twisting of words by the BBC once again shows it up for what it is, a grimy representative of Westminster propaganda and if you work at the BBC and your livelyhood depends on it but hold decent views then I’m sorry you are forced to work for such an organisation as this keeping your mouths shut and sacrificing your principles to hold down a job, but wouldn’t you be happier elswhere not sacrificing your self respect for the British government over your own country

  57. Dr Jim says:


    I was being genuine

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    Thanks 🙂

  59. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim
    Re the elsewhere in your 7.06 I think not as they do make a difference at times, perhaps a subtle one.

  60. Dr Jim says:


    I have always found you to be a consistent and respectful poster most of the time towards those of us who regularly post and like us all from time to time can get shirty about the odd thing but never mean spirited or vindictive and easy to engage without fear of faux indignation

    I myself as you well know enjoy humour and a bit of nonsense from time to time but can be serious if required but find much of the time too much seriousness isn’t always good for our mental stress so tend to avoid some topics where I feel there can be no resolution in an online forum and that leads to the occasional rows some folk have over something in which they have no part in the resolution of except but to annoy themselves

  61. Dr Jim says:


    That’s why I asked it in the form of a question “Wouldn’t you be happier elsewhere”

    I know I would

  62. Dr Jim says:

    AFK for another couple of hours snooze time

  63. Nana says:


    REMINDER there is a MARCH FOR INDEPENDENCE in INVERNESS on SATURDAY 23RD OF MARCH. begins gathering at 1:45 pm MARCH STARTS at 2:30 pm. Starting place is is BUGHT PARK!

  64. Nana says:

    At Business Questions today I raised the case of a constituent who recently applied for a job with the UK Government. Despite having an A in Higher Maths and a B in Advanced Higher Maths she was told that she didn’t meet the requisite grade of an A at A Level Maths.

    Tory welfare spokesperson Michelle Ballantyne has said “there’s no such thing as the Bedroom Tax”. £47m has been spent by the SNP Scottish Government to protect 70,000 of the most vulnerable households.

  65. Nana says:

    Posting again for anyone who may have missed it last evening

    Toxic anti-semitism “crisis” in Labour may have been manufacturered by the very 6 MPs who left the party this week.
    Scotland gets a new budget today, which keeps NHS funds secure and education attainment rising. But at the cost of optional council tax rises or council approved, workplace parking fees.
    Scotland’s unemployment level is now 13%, below that of England and Wales, as new figures contradict Tory assertions that Scotland is underperforming.
    BBC Scotland is also today, forced to apologise over lying about the jobless totals.

    Sir Ivan Rogers on European Union select Committee: Scrutiny of Brexit negotiations

  66. Nana says:

    What would you say if you discovered that Philip May’s US Employer made money out of Brexit “buying opportunities”

    Theresa May faces ministerial revolt over no-deal Brexit

    Brexit: no-deal fatigue

  67. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dr Jim “AFK for another couple of hours snooze time

    Same actually, but while trying to nod off, a thought occurred to me. With SRIT, the ScotGov gets back 21% or more of that pay rise, plus half VAT and if half is spent on Vatable items that’s 5% back, for a total of 25% or more. So a 6% pay rise costs the ScotGov 4.5% (indrectly through councils).

    But the UK Gov get the NI which employee + employer is 10% or more, plus that other half of the half in VAT so 5% for a total of 15%. But also plus corporation tax on spending and profits, so maybe another 5% or more is 20% – plus the back in the economy circulr factor for a total of 25% or more for them.

    So basically ScotGov is giving back 25% of that pay rise to the UK Gov who say “thanks very much you mugs ha ha ha”.

    Fair makes you think.

  68. yesindyref2 says:

    That of course is yet another potential flaw in GERS. Not just the economic multiplier for spending by the UK Gov on our behalf, that isn’t spent in Scotland but in Whitehall for instance, or contractors in the rest of the UK.

    But also that of people and public bodies IN Scotland that boosts profits and jobs in the rUK for goods and services bought there, for which we get no attribution of IT, NI or CT. I haven’t thought this through properly though.

    Anyways back to bed, perchance to sleep this time. It’s a problem, I got a 3 day (well, did it at night) hard work job finished meaning I had to make sure I got some sleep, so gave myself yesterday off but instead did loads of work instead, it’s easier when it’s not neccessary or planned, amazing what you get done, so I’m having today off instead. But since I’ll probably do some work instead, then …

    … the joys of having your own business 🙁

  69. Nana says:

    Greens annouce that they been working on a dodgy deal with Labour over Glasgow’s budget.

    Government has written to us asking for more time to respond. We have written back refusing – we need to know *before* we go off a cliff whether measures to try and mitigate medicine shortages are lawful.

    Official 62-page list of “Brexit Unknowns” was published by the HOC in September 2018. Five months later, pretty much none of the questions have been answered. No wonder businesses are sweating bullets, and multinationals are calling removals firms!

    Some cancer treatment may be delayed post-Brexit

  70. Nana says:

    Plaid win in Ely

    What is going on in #bbcqt? An audience member who harangues the panel on Brexit turns out to be UKIP parliamentary candidate for the City of Chester in 2015

    In the second of a series which highlights views on #Brexit from Brussels, the #AlexSalmondShow interviews key commentators on how other Europeans now regard Britain’s relationship with the EU. Claude Moraes MEP, voted Britain’s most influential Euro MP, suggests that other countries representatives have now reached exasperation point with the UK, while back home the Brexit event horizon is also forcing the long heralded realignment of Westminster politics.

  71. HYUFD says:

    Tory vote down 2% in Ely, LD vote down 6%, Plaid won by 3% so clearly some tactical anti Labour voting going on there which helped Plaid win

  72. Hamish100 says:

    I see the bbc branch office and wulie rennie of Fife believe the term Independent means you believe in moderate and centrist policies. Unless of course you are in Scotland where an independent person is an extremist!

  73. CameronB Brodie says:

    The BBC exists to promote British nationalism, a sophisticated form of blood-and-soil ideology. The BBC is not a “liberal” institution. It is the propaganda arm of the British Establishment and it’s role is to promote ‘British’ exceptionalism.

  74. Abulhaq says:

    England does have a parliament. It’s in London. The majority are English and its constitution is base on English law and practice. The Scots & Welsh legislatures have circumscribed powers devolved from that parliament.
    I ask why should Scots be proud to be British? From my perspective I see nothing exceptional.

  75. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. the economic multiplier for spending by the UK Gov on our behalf. The vast bulk of the MoD’s budget is spent in southern England. Britian’s program for weapons of mass destruction in particular. They only keep the dangerous waste product in Scotland.

  76. hackalumpoff says:

    Due to the dearth of Telephone boxes, Wee Wullie has relocated the LibDem conference to a Postage Stamp in somewhere Hamilton.

  77. Abulhaq says:

    I like strong coffee, highly seasoned food and non-mellow politics…proud to be an ‘extremist’….hand me the harissa!

  78. Dorothy Devine says:

    If this bunch of newly independent MPs appear on Scottish Question Time I would like someone to ask them why they are there – since most , if not all are not Scottish and all have put themselves in the position of NOT being elected.

    An even more interesting question would be who funds them.

    P.S Is Gerry Hassan really Rip Van Winkle since he seems somewhat late on his understanding of the BBBC and QT.

  79. HYUFD says:

    Abulhaq There are Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs at Westminster, it is a UK not English Parliament. I have said before I would support an English Parliament in say York and devomax for the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood with Westminster staying the UK Parliament

  80. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Dr Jim 2.36: I can’t help it if you felt patronised, but frankly I don’t think it’s my style (silly attempts at humour, undoubtedly). It’s quite ironic, given the intemperate and ranting content of your original 10.48 post, that you should accuse me of this and of being sarcastic and insulting.

    You had a go at teachers in general using the same tired old stereotypes when there is a large minority of the profession which wish to take the deal. I am sure many of them will walk away from the EIS if Flanagan persists with his politicking.

    You shouldn’t expect to get a free hit on here when you make such sweeping generalisations in the manner you did and then complain when someone answers you back. As yesindyref2 says, I think the improved offer is a good deal and so do the four teachers I happen to have discussed it with.

  81. CameronB Brodie says:

    You’ve still not twigged to the fact that Brexit annihilates the Treaty of Union. The principles outlining the nature of the British state will no longer have legal relevance. Scotland will be fully at the mercy of English exceptionalism then, with arbitrary protection of our human rights as our reward.

  82. SilverDarling says:

    I caught the tail end of GMS this morning. Two European correspondents, Spanish and German, were asked their highlights of the political week.

    The Spanish journalist said the impact of the no deal Brexit economic forecast put out by the Scottish Government was of great interest to her news agency (AF?). Hailey or Gillian expressed surprise.’That’s been significant for you?’.

    The German journo was scathing and merciless about Jeremy Hunt but felt the defections from the Tories was his highlight.

    We are so ill-served by our media. It was a breath of fresh air to hear them.

    I don’t have a link but its about 8.40 am or thereabouts.

  83. Iain.mhor says:

    Thanks all for playing the constitutional questions. @Cameron b Brodie – ta for the links, which pretty much cover a good few of my core points. They appear to assert that the principle that a ‘people’ have a right to determine their form of government, is a general overriding guiding principle in international politics for resolving disputes, but only codified in its infancy as recently as the 1920’s and the League of Nations. It is open to interpretation and where it relies on legal judgements, we must always bear in mind, that despite best efforts, this is open to reasoning bias, social & political, however much legitimate empirical logic is strived for.

    Which brings the point, that irrefutable proof @geeo is only irrefutable to the point that no-one *ahem refutes it. Since many legal arguments do refute our particular view of the relationship and constitutional ‘acts’ of the UK, then unfortunately that statement falls down. We have what we perceive to be proof, others may not agree, there is the great gamble I referred to.

    However, what can be probably be agreed, is that legal jurisprudence and judgement on the matter can be sidestepped by the principle of self-determination and a declaration by a “people” to that effect, bolsters their legal argument, not the other way around – Which was one of my prior assertions, that the tail does not wag the dog, recourse to the law as an agency is for after the fact, not prior.

    As for any questions on why, the ‘Treaty’ might not to be considered ‘live’, if some (but very far from all) articles within it are still adhered to; that was because of the position that it was incorporated into UK legislation. In a similar manner that EU regulations are incorporated into UK legislation, should the EU ‘cease to exist for us (either literally or figuratively) the legislation will remain until altered or replaced. Seperate Scots Law has been altered, but not fully replaced. Unless *err the Supreme Court is the most recent attempt.

    That the Treaty is referred to does not necessarily make it ‘live’ One can refer to anything, unless it is acknowledged to still be binding, it isn’t – unfortunately it is not considered by one party to be so. All was allegedly absorbed and superceded by a new authority. Even if in the reality of our view of the arguments it wasn’t – on the principle of boiling frogs, the long game of altering and excising by increments may make it a fait-accompli.
    We can see an example being accelerated in the removal of devolved powers, the positioning of the new Civil Service ‘Hub’ the extrication from the EU and its embedded regulations protecting rights and the stonewall blanking of Scotland’s majority group of MP’s at Parliament.

    I’m only devil’s advocate here, I’m not buying it, I’m just pointing out the pitfalls the finest legal minds have not resolved, so it is beholden on us to remember, that when we assert we have ‘legal recourse’ – it’s an asseetion not irrefutable and up against ‘smoke and mirrors’ as @LizGg says. I do not put my faith in the law (having reasons to experience its failings) the great and good of Scots independent law have not been the finest custodians these last centuries. They haven’t even managed to speak up for their own continuing existence (bar a few notable exceptions)

    Anyway, I won’t clog up the thread any more with my pet interest – I do hope Mr Peffers is feeling ok, I was in mortal dread of my posts, but there was nary a word?

  84. yesindyref2 says:

    so clearly some tactical anti Labour voting going on there which helped Plaid win“.

    What a load of Tory Dover House twaddle, worthy of a Mundell on a swing going “Wheee” as he flies out horizontally. Plaid got votes from all three parties and went up by 18% points. Here’s the actual swings:

    Plaid Cymru GAIN #Ely (#Cardiff) from Labour with 43% (+18) of votes.

    Labour were 2nd on 40% (-7), CON 3rd on 14% (-2) and LDM 4th on 2% (-6).

  85. Bobp says:

    I don’t think the likes of fud are too bothered about Scots human rights.

  86. yesindyref2 says:

    It occurs to me that with the Scottish Tory chief whip being called Maurice Golden, we’re looking at a Golden shower of Tory MSPs in Holyrood.

  87. Dr Jim says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    I don’t feel patronised in the least, you attempted to patronise, that’s a different thing and I’m only answering you this once and no more because the tone of your post now contains an even lower level of the desire to argue, and on a subject that neither you or I have the power or position to resolve and that makes it pointless to continue over a desire to make one opinion or comment more important or relevant than another when neither can hold that position, because it’s opinion

  88. mike cassidy says:

    The Fudmeister is back!

    The 77th must have had to call up the freelancers after being hacked.

  89. Breeks says:

    Iain.mhor says:
    22 February, 2019 at 9:58 am

    …. I do not put my faith in the law (having reasons to experience its failings) the great and good of Scots independent law have not been the finest custodians these last centuries. They haven’t even managed to speak up for their own continuing existence (bar a few notable exceptions)…

    Funny Iain, I feel exactly the same about politics.

    There are two sides to the boiling frog analogy. The frog who passively allows himself to be boiled by a pernicious rise in temperature, and those actively responsible for orchestrating the demise of the frog.

    As I’ve said before, review the Brexit process with the sound down, and Scotland has had neither influence over, nor impact upon the process. We have juggled the prospects of Indy, Soft Brexit, Hard Brexit…the whole smorgasbord of Brexit variables, but nowhere has Scotland secured any purchase over Westminster’s Brexit narrative and agenda.

    There are two exceptions. First was the Continuity Legislation, where Scotland at least sought to maintain some degree ascendancy over UK, even though it conceded Brexit and sought to defend a soft Brexit variable, but then capitulated to the retrospective perfidy of UK Government and it’s Supreme Court.

    The other exception is when the Scottish Cross Party initiative brought a case, under Scots Law, to the ECJ to test whether Article 50 could be revoked. The action was successful, it obliged Theresa May to acknowledge that Brexit had a kill switch and thereby threw a lifeline to the “No Brexit” option which the Tories wanted to bury without trace.

    The ECJ judgement delivered a judgement which Westminster was bound to respect while under ECJ jurisdiction, but furthermore, the ECJ judgement was adequately satisfied with the potency and Legal Personality of Scots Law to hear the case, and furthermore, reject the UK Supreme Court’s attempt to overrule Scots Law.

    If Scotland “goes quietly into the night” of a No Deal Brexit, there will be no transition or continuity agreement, and Scotland will wake up on 30th March outside Europe and the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

    In my opinion, we have missed a god given opportunity to consolidate that beachhead which the ECJ has given us, and formally ask the ECJ to build upon its adjudication that revocation of Article 50 was a sovereign prerogative, and request clarification whether the Claim of Right and Scotland’s popular sovereignty might allow Scotland to unilaterally revoke Article 50 insofar as it related to Scotland.

    In my layman’s opinion, even if Scotland didn’t even choose to revoke Article 50, (though why on earth wouldn’t we?), the test case would have far reaching Constitutional ramifications stemming from the ECJ’s de facto recognition of Scotland’s sovereign capacity for independent choice and action.

    I actually see this as an open goal, but with nobody even addressing the ball as if to score.

    Such action need not auger in Independence by default, because Scotland might yet choose its destiny through democratic referendum or arbitrary constitutional test case, however securing that formal recognition of Scotland’s sovereign Constitution becomes a “Scottish Backstop” which Westminster cannot overrule.

    By recognised International Law, Scotland would have a Constitutional Failsafe that lies beyond the reach of Westminster, and the unfettered option about whether to exercise that failsafe.

    To return to your point Iain that you lack faith in the law… I don’t. I believe Scots Law will protect Scotland and deliver it from this contemptible Union, but sadly I lack faith that our politicians will ever lead us in this direction. Indeed it might be too late already.

    The ECJ recognising our Sovereignty gives Scotland control of the thermostat, whereafter our somewhat timid and indecisive frog can leap out the pan whenever he’s ready.

    As for Scots Lawyers rather than Scots Law, I will paraphrase iRobot… “our responses are limited. We must ask the right question”.

    We have 35 days. I believe it is acutely dangerous to persuade ourselves we have longer. It is a default deadline. The cutoff will happen unless actively prevented, and that is beyond our control.

  90. Abulhaq says:

    ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS, the reality is that England rules, the rest just sit and wait in expectation of something turning up. In practical, existential terms the UK = England, its law, its practices and culture. The historico-constitutional niceties of the UKGB&NI may fascinate the nerds but the hard fact of England as the dominant entity wielding the political power cannot be gainsaid. The Brexit ‘debate’ and the marginalising of the Scottish exception vividly exhibits that.
    You have not, I perceive, given an answer as to why I and my fellows should feel pride in being British?

  91. Golfnut says:

    @ Iain Mohr.
    Basically, if I read your comment correctly, your devil’s advocacy is founded on the principal that the Treaty and articles of Union are no longer relevant because they haven’t been challenged in the International courts.
    There are two very easy answers to your argument. A countries boundaries are recognised in International law by legal jurisdiction.

    That neither Scotland nor England were extinguished and that the UK Parliament recognises that they are constrained by the the Treaty of Union when they passed the Wales and Berwick Act of 1746. Amongst other things the act dealt with the transfer of Berwick to English legal jurisdiction and set out the legal boundaries and supremacy of both Scots and English law . It is still recognised today by Westminster as all statutes brought into force through Westminster require amendments to bring them into line with Scots law.
    The second is much more recent and very high profile. The Lockerbie bomber.

    Jurisdiction was disputed by both Westminster and the USA, but the International courts found, and therefore recognised in International law that the Treaty and articles of Union were still in force, by ruling that Scots law held supremacy because the crime was committed in Scottish airspace.

    So, yes it has been challenged.

  92. galamcennalath says:

    Pete Wishart tweets, highlighting Jo Swinson’s LibDem speech …. “Yup. For the Liberals staying in the economically disastrous, isolating ugliness of Brexit Britain is the best Scotland can ever aspire to.”

    Thing is, that’s the way ALL BritNats think. Attachment to their UK and its disfunctional Union takes priority over EVERYTHING else.

    I must confess I thought there must be a point where LibDems might put aside blind UKOK dogma and contemplate an alternative future for Scotland. Once, they were the party of Home Rule when that meant going further than grudged devolution. In fact, the same can be said for the early 20thC manifestations of the Labour Party.

    I expect Tories to fight to the last person in the last trench in defence of their Union – they are the ultimate advocates and defenders of the Greater England project. However, somehow I felt some in the upper hierarchy of other Unionist parties might follow the large numbers of their voters and see Indy as the best future. Going down with the sinking ship when there is a lifeboat with spaces makes absolutely no sense.

  93. Breeks says:

    Another thought provoked… Suppose our Holyrood Government did bring such a test case before the ECJ, to seek this perfectly apt “clarification”, ask yourself this… Who would oppose it?

    The UK Supreme Court? Contest clarification? Doesn’t that mean it would have to advocate confusion and ambiguity?

  94. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Dr Jim 10.54: yes, given the positions we have taken up on this subject, further toing and froing is probably pointless, since I don’t think we will agree on anything much and it spares other posters from our repetitions.

  95. Cubby says:


    Not glad to see you back. You have been told before but Ill tell you again. Your kind proposal for Scotland is 40 years out of date – yes 40 years. Scotland would have been up for that in 1979 but the Britnat Labour Party pockled the vote and more of Scotland saw the deceitfulness of the Westminster system.

    You are wasting your time with your patronising proposal. I will not be replying to you or engaging any further as you just repeat the same crap that you have done so many times previously.

    The ONLY solution is the termination of the treaty of union.

    I repeat you are 40 years too late – but you know that of course.

  96. Meg merrilees says:

    Golfnut/Ian Mohr

    Point of information_

    heard a discussion yesterday from WM. Politicians are thinking of updating the ‘1351 Treason Law’ to facilitate issues surrounding the Isis Bride subject and make certain actions treasonable.

    Don’t often hear issues of treason being discussed in the media but there you go… an Act from 1351 is still on the statute book and still relevant……. in England. There may be an equivalent Scottish law, but if you remember the Catalan professor case, Clara Ponsati, Spain wanted to extradite her for sedition ( and treason?) but as there was no such law in Scotland she was safe. Had she been domiciled in England she would have been extradited under the 1351 Act.

  97. CameronB Brodie says:

    It is the habit of British nationalists to consider themselves morally justified in their beliefs. However, Scotland’s yoon politician project the morality and ethics of the colonial era. This may be because British nationalism instills a form of blood-and-soil nationalism through constant re-inforcement (see the BBC). A sort of social conditioning for the uncritical and latent xenophobe.

    Yoon politicians tend to fall into one of two categories, simply dishonest or thick as shit. Sometimes both.

    Bourdieu and ‘Habitus’

    Reading Bourdieu, can habitus, either individual or collective, been seen as a form of social capital?

    Habitus Clivé and the Emotional Imprint of Social

  98. jezza says:

    England/UK is about to crash out of Europe, taking us with them, and all the official opposition Party (Labour) can think of is to have an internal bun fight about how bad the Jews are.

    Then BBC News follows up with trying to find out who called who the worst names.

    Meanwhile we have to sit back like obedient little schhool children and take whatever shit they are about to dump on us.

    Hurry up Nicola and fire that starting gun, ,can’t take much more of this.

  99. I can’t see how we can possibly trust a ‘Scottish’ debate show being supplied by the ‘British’ BC.
    Are we supposed to say ‘thanks for the crumbs’?

  100. Hamish100 says:

    The Israeli Government, The Tories and Trump wish to thank the Labour Party for being gullible in the extreme.

    The Shadow Secretary of State (cant remember her name) will probably say now is the time for a General Election. Theresa May laughs.

    Independence or tory brexit for the rest of our days. Are you listening Scots Labour supporters.

  101. Petra says:

    Thanks for the links Nana, in particular the article about Prime Minister Philip May.


    ”What would you do if you found out that the US Company which had been party to Brexit Russia Data Hack, hosted Russian Dark Ads, and was described by @DamianCollins described as Digital Gangsters received $17bn in Funding by Philip May’s US Employer?”..


    ..”Or May’s employers fund made about £ 100 BILLION on the EU leave vote – yet May has never declared a conflict of interest – how can that possibly be right?”..

  102. Effijy says:

    I’m much brighter this morning now that I avoid the BBC’s fag ship propaganda vehicle Question Time.

    I have nothing in common with the hand picked right wing panelist
    majority with audience and public questions to match.

    Finished with that garbage for good.

    I have more in common with the Catalonian’s than the English.

    The Greens are playing a very strange game.
    Don’t expect them to agree on all matters SNP but they are the only party with a genuine interest in improving Scotland’s lot.

    Unlike Labour, they have never returned budget to Westminster, never stolen 6,000 miles of Scottish waters, never adopted a true environmental policy, or fought for renewable energy funding for research. The biggest one of course is Trident. £Billions
    to ensure we can join the party in wiping out the world as an equal war monger.

    A meaningless concession to work place parking that will never be applied is all we gave up to pass our budget.

    Some Orange loonies on line suggest the Greens are taking some kind of corrupt bribe.

    How does that compare to the £Billion pound being handed out to Ulster Unionists to burn fuel pellets in empty warehouses, or the
    extra £Billion they receive for propping up the absurd Tory Party, or the £Millions given to them to rebuild a fire ravaged Bank Building in Belfast.
    (Nothing of course to the MacKintosh School of Art one of the worlds most iconic pieces of architecture. Pity he was Scottish?)

    I know where I point the finger at rampant corruption of the highest order.

    The future is bright but it certainly isn’t a fusion of Green and Orange!

  103. HYUFD says:

    CameronBBrodie The Treaty of Union was signed 250 years before the UK joined the EEC let alone the EU, so no

  104. HYUFD says:

    Abulhaq in 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and the UK got a Labour government, it is not all one way traffic. You are a nationalist so obviously will never have any pride in being British but we are better in my view United as one United Kingdom on the world stage

  105. Dr Jim says:

    Billy the flute band man and well known BBC panelist and Britnat nut job has decided to Troll the First Minister now

  106. Meg merrilees says:

    So much for Hospitalgate and the hysteria in the Scottish press about pigeon droppings – which were supposed to have entered the hospital via a crack in the roof that was so fine you couldn’t see it by eye…..

    BBC has just published an article about investigations have proven that it is a type of bacteria never before seen in Scotland, resistant to the two most suitable antibiotics and resistant to hospital cleaning fluids…. so, maybe, just maybe, Scottish hospitals are not mediaeval dens of filth and disease after all.

    Do wonder where the bacteria came from really…..

  107. sinky says:


    Only on two occasions out of 20 general elections have the voters of England have not the government most voted for.

    You are a British Nationalist and don’t have any pride in self determination for Scotland which is our democratic right.

    As Winnie Ewing said “Stop the world we want to get on” and not be subjected to an isolated, xenophobic Brit Nat hatred of foreigners that exists in many parts of England.

  108. Dr Jim says:

    @Meg Merrilees 1:25pm

    I live in a complex where many elderly folk live and for a while a couple of years back they were feeding pigeons right outside the front door of the building next to a little wishing well which would get covered in droppings then those same old folk would clean the wishing well up with kitchen cloths and the like

    I pointed this out to the caretaker of the complex and the risks to health of touching pigeon droppings then door handles and coffee cups plates and so on

    The complex put a rapid stop to them doing it and banned any future feeding of pigeons, but guess what she told them it was me who informed her of the risks to their health and I became the bad guy, not only because I stopped their fun but because I’m the SNP guy who stopped their fun

    Maybe I shouldn’t have bothered being concerned with their health after all

    BTW I live in Yoon Central so I guess Me and the ESENPEEE are worse than pigeon droppings to them

  109. Hamish100 says:

    HYUFD says:
    22 February, 2019 at 1:12 pm
    Abulhaq in 1964 and February 1974 England voted Tory and the UK got a Labour government, it is not all one way traffic.

    Your view of 1 way traffic is an interesting one. An anglocentric tory one.

  110. ronnie anderson says:

    Effijy U forgot the £3 million given to the Piece & Reconciliation group in NI

  111. Dr Jim says:

    In 1895 HG Wells published his book the Time Machine and the Unionist government was in power in England

    They’re still in power

    HG Wells might have had the good grace to warn Scotland about this….he still might come to think of it

  112. K1 says:

    But it is ‘mostly’ one way traffic. You stretch your argument beyond the bounds of realism. In desperation no doubt to ensure your profound stupidity isn’t so obvious at first glance.

    Do outline for us all, for the sake of clarity and transparency of course, the years when it has been ‘all one way traffic’, i.e. when England voted Tory and Scotland didn’t ever vote Tory and still got Tory governments?

    There is a democratic deficit and devolution does not ‘even’ that out, it merely allows in Scotland’s case, for us to mitigate Tory government policies. You talk on here as if Scotgov is somehow equivalent to Westminster gov. It’s not. That’s what ‘devolved’ means, legislative powers have been transferred to Scotland and can be removed at any time by Westminster governments.

    UKexit is the example of this made real. Legislative powers that have been devolved will now be ‘repatriated’ to Westminster post UKexit.

    But you constantly state that devolution has in some way balanced the democratic deficit that exist between England and Scotland. That is a flat out provable lie, and citing the ‘only’ 2 occasions in the last 50 odd years where by very small margins England got a Labour gov whilst voting Tory is hardly hard and fast ‘proof’ of there being no democratic deficit at play between the two countries.

    I don’t know why you keep coming on here and spewing out the same nonsense. Your arguments have already been thoroughly discredited and debunked coming back time and again to regurgitate the same tired tropes doesn’t improve your reputation as a liar. It merely strengthens our arguments and confirms our outlook that we are dealing with mendacious contortionists who lie as readily as breathing in the surrounding air.

    You are not a reasonable man. You are an ideologue. Not an ounce of honour or integrity runs through anything you post on here.

    You’re attempting a ‘drip drip’ approach on here and it will not work, we see you.

  113. Glamaig says:

    HYUFD says:
    22 February, 2019 at 1:12 pm
    ‘You are a nationalist so obviously will never have any pride in being British’

    Er ‘pride in being British’ is a bit nationalist isn’t it?

    Its a feature of colonizing nations and empires that they are oblivious to their own nationalism but scream ‘nationalist’ at any nation that objects to their rule.

  114. Legerwood says:

    Meg merrilees says:
    22 February, 2019 at 1:25 pm
    So much for Hospitalgate and the hysteria in the Scottish press about pigeon droppings – which were supposed to have entered the hospital via a crack in the roof that was so fine you couldn’t see it by eye…..

    BBC has just published an article about investigations have proven that it is a type of bacteria never before seen in Scotland, resistant to the two most suitable antibiotics and resistant to hospital cleaning fluids….””

    This is not the same cases as the QEUH cases. The latter did involve a form of bacteria found in pigeon droppings.

    The cases involving the rare type of bacteria involved two very premature babies in the Princess Royal maternity hospital in Glasgow.

  115. ronnie anderson says:

    Dr Jim im in the same category as yourself wie a daft auld cunart feeding pigeon’s in Airdrie precinct , i had bought a sausage roll & milk for lunch & sat on a bench I was just putting the sausage roll to my mouth when the auld cunt threw millet on the ground flocks descended from the roofs , he complained to a Policeman that I threatened him ( i would put him & his bag of millet in the bin ) Policeman agreed with me he was a public nuisance as there were lots of people & kids eating & drinking I’ve hunted him on many occasion from the precinct .

    I have idiots round about me who feed the Flying Rats ( Seagulls ) its no them thats cleaning my car Bastwards .

  116. schrodingers cat says:

    vonc, treeza won

    325 to 306


    the real figure to watch is the no tories who leave the party, presently it is at 3, once it reaches 10, expect another vonc

  117. schrodingers cat says:

    @ronnie anderson

    seagulls are numerically disadvantaged. were they an endangered species, i could have charged folk to see them from my flat window on cable lane, torry, aberdeen.

    however, any sympathy for seagulls, anyone ever had for them goes right out of the window the moment one shits on you

  118. Golfnut says:

    @ Meg Merrilees.

    They first touted changing the 1351 treason laws just after Amber Rudd left the Home Office, she was one of the supporting voices in the media. Whatever it is they are discussing at the moment, I doubt it covers the actual incentive to have changes made.

    England’s treason laws were foisted on Scotland in 1708, and I have little doubt that it is more to do with their vulnerability to prosecution in Scotland than anything else. Perhaps apt or ironic that we might see government ministers from what was a UK government tried for treason in Scotland using English treason laws.

  119. Abulhaq says:

    With a simple majority voting system it is arithmetic not ethnicity that determines the result.
    True I am a nationalist with a view of Britishness shaped by knowledge of its long history and its effect on societies it has influenced.
    Such influence has been debilitating, a condition typical of the colonial relationship; divide, flatter, de-culture and rule. Then comes the myth of exceptionalism and the rationale of why the status quo is better than any other: we’re all better together, you’d be bankrupt in a week and so forth.
    It helps to have a good supply of ‘loyally conditioned, but proud ethnics’ available to do the hands on.
    Have heard the Pax Britannica likened to the Pax Romana or Alexander’s Empire, I couldn’t possibly comment.

  120. ronnie anderson says:

    schodringers cat And when that happens some passing idiot saying that will bring U luck lol as happened to me some years ago in Dundee , the greater the hight the greater the splatter

  121. Robert Peffers says:

    @HYUFD says: 22 February, 2019 at 1:28 am:

    ” … plenty of Scots are happy with that and proud to be Scottish and British.”

    You do talk a right load of absolute balderdash, HYUFD.

    If you are a Scot you are also British and you are thus both Scottish and British.

    However, it is generally accepted by Scots law that the definition of Scottish is, “anyone of any colour, creed or country of origin who is mainly resident in Scotland, pays tax as a Scot and is registered to vote in Scottish elections is one of the legally sovereign people of Scotland. What though do you mean by British?

    All legislatures in the British Isles are British. That includes the three Crown Dependencies that do not come under Westminster rule. It also includes the Republic of Ireland. Westminster is not the parliament of Britain it is the Parliament of the United Kingdom. Everyone that belongs to any legislature in the British Isles is thus British. They may not, though, be under United Kingdom rule.

    Which brings up that little, (cough!), unimportant question of just exactly what is the United Kingdom? This United Kingdom was constituted by an international treaty Of union between two, equally sovereign, kingdoms and that makes it a two partner, (bipartite), kingdom.

    It does not make it a legally a unified country nor legally a quadratic set-up with the country of England as the master country with three dominion of England subservient countries under English rule.

    So, sorry, but, “British”, does not describe only the people of the United Kingdom alone. It describes the people of the British Isles. Thus Scots, Irish Republicans, Welsh, Manx People and Channel Islanders are as, “British”, as Londoners or indeed Englanders.

    While many of these, particularly Republic of Ireland people, claim not to be British they actually are British but they are not United Kingdomers.

  122. galamcennalath says:

    “British opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn could seize on a “huge opportunity” to win back key seats in its former Scottish heartland by endorsing a second vote on Brexit, former Labour prime minister Tony Blair said.”

    Sounds like Blair hasn’t been keeping up with political events! Labour will not be seen as the anti Brexit party in Scotland, no matter what it now does.

  123. Capella says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    22 February, 2019 at 8:51 am

    The BBC exists to promote British nationalism, a sophisticated form of blood-and-soil ideology. The BBC is not a “liberal” institution. It is the propaganda arm of the British Establishment and it’s role is to promote ‘British’ exceptionalism.

    And that is the best summary of the BBC I’ve seen. Should be on a postcard and sent to every licence fee payer in Scotland.

  124. jfngw says:


    Technically England has rarely voted for majority Tory rule but have run the country for the majority of the period from 1945 by have a FPTP system that gives them unbridled power with what is a minority of the vote (less than 50%).

    Tories and Labour loved this system as it worked to there advantage. That’s why they are so pissed with the SNP, it has disturbed this duopoly of power that they were so contented with.

  125. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Due to the dearth of Telephone boxes, Wee Wullie has relocated the LibDem conference to a Postage Stamp somewhere in Hamilton.”

    Any idea what Hamilton has done to deserve this, hackalumpoff?

  126. Ben Starav says:

    Glamiag @ 2.03pm

    Imperialists scream at nationalism because they know it is the thing that will kill them.

    It is also the best form of defence against other oppressive, militaristic ideologies. When Hitler was stopped at Stalingrad the defenders were not defending Communism, or Uncle Joe – it was Mother Russia.

    In turn, the Poles, Latvians etc. were able to throw off the yoke of Communism in the 1980s partly because their nationalism had preserved their cultural identity.

  127. galamcennalath says:

    Just been looking at the Remainer Now campaign.

    Parallels with our own No2Yes, however there is a difference in approach.

    When we promote people who have moved from No to Yes it’s all about joining us, the AlwaysYes/StillYes folks. Several initiatives like the excellent Phantom videos and now Angus Robertson’s organisation.

    Remainer Now is different in that it appears to be run by Brexgretters themselves. It’s a group for those who have changed their minds run by others who have made the same transition.

    The guy in this is a Tory, and it’s from a ‘British’ perspective, so there are limits to the comparison! However, wouldn’t it be great to a NO voting Scots’ Tories saying they made a mistake and are now YES? I won’t hold my breath!

  128. starlaw says:

    Don’t think Tony Blair is aware of the fact that we know Westminster see’s Scotland as just a colony, and we will not be a colony. We will not return to voting for two wings of the same establishment. The days of vote Labour put the Tories out rubbish have gone.

  129. CameronB Brodie says:

    The failure of yoon politician to defend Scotland, indicates their loyalty is not directed towards the public who elected them. They are not loyal to the people of Scotland. Support of Brexit support English cultural-ism and the Crown instead.

  130. CameronB Brodie says:

    Supporters of Brexit….

    Akala perfectly explains the structural racism that still exists today in Britain.

  131. starlaw says:

    Ronnie Anderson if you don’t like Seagulls do not holiday in Rhyle , theres thoosands oh the buggers squealing and screaming from 4am till 10pm.

  132. Dr Jim says:

    Which magazine and the BBC do free promotional advertising for Morrisons supermarket chain

    Which magazine claim they did a ten thousand people survey and although Aldi and Lidl turned out the number one choice of Shoppers in the *UK* Morrisons was the best???? the Cheapest of the big four???? and the best quality of the big four?????

    So by now we’ve forgotten about Aldi and Lidl the supermarkets who were the top ones as voted for because Which Magazine and the BBC are still saying Morrisons are the Bees Knees

    It couldn’t possibly be the fact that you can buy nothing in Morrisons without a Britnat flag stuck on it could it
    Oh and another thing I have a Morrisons next door to me and they are the most expensive of the big four with I would guess Asda as the cheapest and most favourable on quality and there aren’t Britnat flags on everything

    But lets not forget the winners Aldi eh BBC and they have *!”^Saltires”%^* on stuff

  133. Dr Jim says:

    Seagulls are nice

    From far away in the sky when they look very small

  134. CameronB Brodie says:

    Capella 😉

  135. ben madigan says:

    @Robert Peffers who said: “British”, does not describe only the people of the United Kingdom alone. It describes the people of the British Isles. Thus Scots, Irish Republicans, Welsh, Manx People and Channel Islanders are as, “British”, as Londoners or indeed Englanders.
    While many of these, particularly Republic of Ireland people, claim not to be British they actually are British but they are not United Kingdomers.”

    That’s your view Mr Peffers, pushing your logic to its limits, as long as one accepts, as you do, the name “the British isles”

    The Irish do not. Whatever they call this North Atlantic archipelago, they do not and will not use the term “British Isles” because it is patently untrue as far as the Irish are concerned.

    Irish people do not claim not to be British. They are not British. They have long asserted their right, in arms and in other ways, not to be termed as such.

    Carry on, Mr Peffers, creating your castle in the air of your own mind that everyone on these islands is british.

    The reality is that they are not.

  136. CameronB Brodie says:

    Prior to Union in 1707, England controlled the global slave trade. Cultural memory is hard to dislodge (see the Highland clearances).

    Scottish nobility and merchant class did not have access to the lucrative slave market until Britain’s creation. IMHO, the British Establishment still struggles to dislodge the mentality of slavers.

  137. Proud Cybernat says:

    Isn’t ‘Albion’ the oldest name for the island of Greater Brittany?

    And isn’t ‘Hibernia’ one of the oldest names for the Island of Ireland?

  138. Heart of Galloway says:

    Some of the doubters above throwing their toys out of the pram over perceived inaction over IndyRef2 appear to have very short memories.

    On four or five occasions in recent weeks Ian Blackford has told May’s braying legions that Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will.

    I don’t know how any part of that statement is so unclear that it is beyond comprehension.

    But it is not just a statement thrown out in the heat of debate. It is also both a warning and a promise – the former to the British establishment, the latter to the people of Scotland.

    It is pledge consistently made with deadly serious intent, and one from which there can be no backtracking. It is also the expression of a soon to be revealed move to anchor Scotland in Europe before B-day.

    Like the Soviet soldiers hanging on in Stalingrad we must hold on, and when we can’t hold on, hold on some more. Because during all that terrible time in late 1942, a great counter offensive was being planned behind the scenes. And when it was launched, the men wept tears of joy, because they knew then they would win.

    We we soon get the chance to make 2019 famed in history as the year Scotland reclaimed her place in the world.

  139. Abulhaq says:

    Don’t understand why you cleave so firmly to the style ‘British’.
    The British were originally the P Celtic inhabitants of Britannia, a Roman province which incorporated for a short time Scotland below the Antonine Wall, above the wall being called Caledonia. Suspect you’ll know that already.
    Consequently, Ireland or Hibernia was never British in the above sense.
    Its later use is a confused one, subject to licence both poetic, political and sentimental.
    Scots unionists promoted it as a species of supranationality. There was even a jocular term West Briton to echo North Briton. Note, there was never a South Briton. The English in practice simply treated it as a more romantic term for English. The British Sea was today’s English Channel

  140. hackalumpoff says:

    @ Tinto at 3:11 pm
    ““Due to the dearth of Telephone boxes, Wee Wullie has relocated the LibDem conference to a Postage Stamp somewhere in Hamilton.”

    Any idea what Hamilton has done to deserve this, hackalumpoff?”

    Tinto,I am so disappointed that you, the great edumacator, should misquote me so. For your punithment, pleeth please write my original quote 100 times in your jotter and get to back of the class.
    “Due to the dearth of Telephone boxes, Wee Wullie has relocated the LibDem conference to a Postage Stamp in somewhere Hamilton.”

    BTW I heard about Hamilton on the BBC

  141. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    K1 @ 13:59,

    That’s as fine a piece of writing as I have ever read on WoS.

    Just a pity it had to be written in the first place. But then the counterarguments are getting very thin, not to say threadbare.

  142. Liam says:

    There was even a jocular term West Briton to echo North Briton. Note, there was never a South Briton. The English in practice simply treated it as a more romantic term for English.

    My daughter annoys a Britnatty school friend by referring to England as ‘East Wales’.

  143. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 11:10,

    The thing is, those LibDems in Scotland who didn’t eventually quit over the rightwards lurch by Clegg and the Tory coalition, left over the manifest failure of devolution. What remains is a hollow shell; opportunists like Swinson, stranded no-hopers like Wee Willie, and the “soft Tory” Unionists.

    Like NorthBritLab, they depend for survival on English handouts, accordingly fear they wouldn’t survive in an independent Scotland, and project that fear onto the rest of us.

  144. yesindyref2 says:

    “British Isles” is a political term, the English and the English monarchs claiming ownership of all islands around the shores of England and half of France as well. If you said “You’re British” to an Irish person (like my wife) you’d soon be running down the road with your tail between your legs, whimpering like a puppy the cat turned on.

    Advice to anyone going to Dublin for a pint of the black stuff – don’t call them British! As my wife would say: “They sh**t people like you back home” (she says the same to anyone who thinks they’re clever taking off the Irish accent).

  145. galamcennalath says:


    The phrases South Briton and South British were, historically, most used in Australia and NZ from what I can see.

    There seems very little use in referring to England. Only very recently and by Scots sarcastically.

  146. Bill McLean says:

    Pytheas of Massilia (Marseilles), a Greek geographer visited and circumnavigated the islands we call the British Isles in about 325 BC. He named all the islands Pretanic Islands (Vrettaniki Nissoi) Some sources say this means “painted islands” others “wet islands” – know which one i’d go for. Robert P is correct in saying everyone who lives in any of these islands can describe themselves geographically as “British” in the same way as a Dane, Norwegian or Swede can call themselves geographically a Scandinavian. I will never refer to myself as “British” for reasons that we discuss daily on this site. Most Irish people, I have read, would put their heads in a gas oven before calling themselves “British”.

  147. Cubby says:

    Dr Jim@4.01

    It really is bloody annoying the number of products with the Britnat flag on them in all supermarkets not just Morrisons. Sick of it.

  148. galamcennalath says:

    Robert J. Sutherland says:

    What remains is a hollow shell …. they depend for survival on English handouts

    I agree. There’s often discussion about what will happen to the BritNat parties after Indy. Quite honestly, I think there is so little left of Labour and the LibDems in terms of actual party infrastructure, that they will simply disappear into the mist. There voters seem driven by little more than nostalgia. A few individuals may continue under another banner.

    The Tories however, I’m not so sure about. They still have a solid party structure with support and will reinvent themselves. I wouldn’t put it past them to continue as a pro-Union party wanting reunification and reversal of Indy! Or perhaps they will actually realise the game’s up and create a right wing genuinely Scottish party.

  149. Think the Ancient Greeks called ,what is now,England ,Albion,

    they called,what is now Ireland,Hierni,

    and they called,what is now Scotland,Caledon,

    from that you have,

    Scotland – Caledonia,

    Ireland – Hibernia,

    England – Albania.

  150. galamcennalath says:



    … if enough of us do our shopping by that rule, then the supermarkets will soon quietly drop it. Their mission is to make money. Politics is secondary. If profit is threatened, they will change tack.

    Are there so many Union Flags on display in NI supermarkets? I assume not.

  151. CameronB Brodie says:

    Have the Scottish Tories for Yes changed their name yet? They obviously aren’t Tories, as they appear to support the principle of universal human rights. What about “Scottish Conservatives” for Independence?

  152. Bill McLean says:

    With respect Scot, Hibernia and Caledonia were Latin descriptive names given to Ireland and Scotland by the Romans – meaning respectively, cold,and, mountainous. “Albion” is another name for the island later named “Great Britain” – and sometimes used to refer to England. From Old English based on the Latin “albus” and may be of Celtic origin but related to the Latin for white. Great Britain was used to distinguish the large island from smaller Britain ie Brittany in France.

  153. Tinto Chiel says:

    @hackalumpoff 5.02: I have pure writ oot ma punishment but I would humbly submit I only cut and pasted your original 😛

    But the BBC is an unimpeachable source, as you say.

    In “The Dead” by James Joyce, Miss Ivors, the Irish nationalist, deliberately goads the pompous “too cool to be Irish” Gabriel Conroy by directing the term “West Briton” at him as a calculated insult, so I have to go with ben madigan and yesindyref2 on this one.

  154. Gary45% says:

    Scottish ski seasons worst season for a while. Nae Snaw!!
    Whit’s Nikla Sturjin gonnae dae aboot it??
    SNP= Globul wurmin.= happy dugs!!!!(Thunk aboot it)
    Hoots mon.

    It used to bother me also, but a positive way to look at it is, when Scotland becomes Indy, what supermarket produce will still have the butchers apron on it?
    Jam, bigotry and a hatred of anything not Empirelandish!!

  155. ronnie anderson says:

    Starlaw its tenereffie fur me & the Wife in March no Rhyle lol

  156. ronnie anderson says:

    Seagulls are misnamed they should be called Toonies , take them aw back tae the Bass rock or Rockall lol .

  157. @Bill McLean,

    Brittany was named after all the Britons that fled there after the Romans left,

    meaning of Albion,

    Celtic linguist Xavier Delamarre argued that it originally meant “the world above, the visible world”, in opposition to “the world below”, i.e., the underworld.

    Alternatively it may derive from the Proto-Indo-European root *alb-, meaning “hill”.

  158. hackalumpoff says:

    @Tinto, Guilty as charged.

    YOU “somewhere in Hamilton

    ME “somewhere Hamilton”

    Are you a fitba referee ?

    200 lines-I will not edit my cut and pastes before letting rip.

    I do second your emotion re Ben Madigan and Indyref2 though.

    .- .-.

  159. Tinto Chiel says:

    @hackalumpoff: if we’re both somewhere in Hamilton, why can’t I see you?

    Your names sounds strangely Russian. Are you an agent of That There Putin?

    Radio 4 says guys like you are everywhere, subverting our glorious democracy.

    Watch it, Ivan.

  160. Golfnut says:

    Albion is the ancient name of this Island, it belongs to a pre Celtic group of languages spoken right across Europe. Almond is another survivor, meaning water. Albion is thought to mean ‘ white land ‘. Alba is the Gaelic version of this word, not Scotland, Albannach should really be translated as men of Albion.
    The Gauls preferred to the ‘ people ‘ of this Island as the Priti or Pretani, the Romans version is Briton. It’s thought to mean picture people. 200 hundred years after the Romans arrived, those stationed in the North were referring to the tribes of Caledonia as Picts, picture people. They spoke the same basic language as the rest of Albion, or Alban.

  161. Bill McLean says:

    Scot – no dispute about how Brittany got it’s name and does not detract from where the name Britain or Great Britain originated.. Not sure of the Albion bit – not an argument but surely the origin is more prosaic than an otherworldly origin. The provenance of these names came about a long time ago and sometimes the origins are completely lost. Most European languages had an Indo-European root. Interesting though!

  162. hackalumpoff says:

    @Tinto 6:53 pm

    Go to Specsavers IN Hamilton, I’ll go somewhere Moscow.

    ????? ?????????

  163. Hamish100 says:

    back to BBC and the QE hospital. They refer to a report by Health Protection Scotland (can’t find online) and separately 2 deaths by an extremely rare infection. It is really hard to drill down what is happening as only a few weeks ago the problems wear pigeons now it appears they were not the problem. Help! Any microbiologists out there? No I don’t need the tory from Aberdeen Uni to pontificate.

    Is this another BBC set up?

  164. hackalumpoff says:

    @Tinto, WordPress is now censoring cyrillic text!

  165. HYUFD says:

    Sinky Not quite correct either, in 2010 and 2017 the Tories won a majority in England but the UK Parliament was a hung parliament, so that is 4 occasions over that time period actually also including 1964 and February 1974

  166. Hamish100 says:

    I am a Scot, European and Jock Tamsons’ bairn.

  167. HYUFD says:

    Robert Peffers As others have noted Britain excludes Ireland, hence it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

  168. yesindyref2 says:

    Hamilton? A hot-bed of Kremlinites?


    (stirs pot)

  169. yesindyref2 says:

    I suppose we could all go on a world tour really, calling at Peking, Bombay, Munich, Stalingrad, Edinboro, Londinium, Dubris, Deva Victrix.

    Which is, of course, what the natives call them.

  170. starlaw says:

    An ah thocht Albion wiz an auld lorry.

  171. jfngw says:


    Did we not have a Conservative PM in 2010 and 2017 then. So England got the PM it voted for without even having a UK majority (39.5% of the vote in England 2010, 45.6 in 2017, still not a majority of voters).

  172. hackalumpoff says:

    It’s Kryptonite we need not Kremlinite.

    dobry ‘vecher

  173. ronnie anderson says:

    hackalumpoff that M77s very busy at this time of night lol

  174. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah! The famous blue label as opposed to Rev’s red label 🙂

  175. yesindyref2 says:

    Or was it the other way around? Memory eh!

  176. SilverDarling says:

    Adding my tuppence worth into the British Isles dispute:

    ‘World and its Peoples: Ireland and the United Kingdom, London: Marshall Cavendish, 2010, p. 8, The nomenclature of Great Britain and Ireland and the status of the different parts of the archipelago are often confused by people in other parts of the world.

    The name British Isles is commonly used by geographers for the archipelago; in the Republic of Ireland, however, this name is considered to be exclusionary. In the Republic of Ireland, the name British-Irish Isles is occasionally used. However, the term British-Irish Isles is not recognized by international geographers. In all documents jointly drawn up by the British and Irish governments, the archipelago is simply referred to as “these islands.”

    The name British Isles remains the only generally accepted terms for the archipelago off the northwestern coast of mainland Europe.’

    ‘These Islands’ Now where have we heard that…?

  177. yesindyref2 says:

    Yeah, pretty sure Albion was the red label of course, like the logo. According to Albion people, vastly superior to blue label products.

    Anyone confirm?

  178. Lenny Hartley says:

    Bugger gonna have to watch the new BbC Scotland channel next Thursday as there is a program about Jodie Chalks quest to become Scotland’s first Motorcycle Road Race Champion. Both her and dad Garfield who was also a great racer in his day also are very strong Yesser’s which can be seen by the yes bikers stickers on her race bike. 🙂 should the TV licensing authorities be reading this, i will not be in as will go to an elderly neighbours who gets their licence for nowt .,

  179. Cubby says:



    I do that’s why it’s so bloody annoying. Picking something up and then having to put it back. Bloody annoying.

  180. Liz g says:

    Cubby @ 7.42
    Then don’t put it back…
    Well not immediately anyway 🙂
    Take it to the checkout,notice the jack, and have the staff put it back.
    Dont mention why just say you don’t want it.
    The staffing costs are these shops biggest outlay and if you are commanding their time,you are using up the resources!
    If lots of people did it that way then they would need more staff!

  181. Legerwood says:

    Hamish100 says:
    22 February, 2019 at 7:03 pm
    back to BBC and the QE hospital. They refer to a report by Health Protection Scotland (can’t find online) and separately 2 deaths by an extremely rare infection. It is really hard to drill down what is happening as only a few weeks ago the problems wear pigeons now it appears they were not the problem. Help! Any microbiologists out there? No I don’t need the tory from Aberdeen Uni to pontificate.

    Is this another BBC set up?””

    No. It is you not reading the report, or not listening properly.

    There are two stories at the moment about bacterial infections in two Glasgow hospitals.

    The first relates to the QEUH and involves bacteria from pigeons.

    The second, and more recent story, relates to the Princess Royal Maternity Hospital in Glasgow where two very premature babies died from a very rare form of S. aureus not found in this country before.

    I have already pointed this out further up this thread in reply to a post by Meg Merrilees.

  182. Golfnut says:

    No idea where the word Caesar came from, Alba and Albannach are the two words concerned.

  183. Golfnut says:

    Once again the words Alba and Albannach are being changed to Caesar, very strange. Any ideas on how this is happening.

  184. Golfnut says:

    Alba, Albannach, ?

  185. yesindyref2 says:

    It was because the Rev got fed up with people signing off with S*or Alb* so he replaces alb* with Caesar!

  186. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s probably a word-filter the Rev. is using.

  187. Golfnut says:

    Jeez. Thanks.

  188. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Golfnut.

    The phrase ‘Sa-or Al-ba’ is frowned on by Rev Stu so he has a filter set up to change these words to ‘Hail Caesar!’.

  189. yesindyref2 says:

    S*or Alb*!

    Or, as they say in the trade: “Hail Alba”.

  190. yesindyref2 says:

    Ooops, that put me into moderation 🙂

    I thought it would just get filtered. Oh well, hammer’s out.

  191. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    The Alb-anians are appealing to the UN about this!


  192. yesindyref2 says:

    Talking about the Rev by the way, did anyone ever comment that he went through the magic gate from Bathgate and got to Bath?

    Not a lot of people know that.

  193. Clydebuilt says:


    8.00 – 8.30 BBC2 Grand Tour of Scotland’s Lochs

    8.00 – 9.00 Channel 5 Secret Scotland

    Whats going on?

  194. Clydebuilt says:

    There’s more programmes about Scotland than appearances of SNP politicians on Great British political programmes.

  195. Petra says:

    @ Lenny Hartley says at 7:42 pm …. ”Bugger gonna have to watch the new BBC Scotland channel next Thursday as there is a program about Jodie Chalks quest to become Scotland’s first Motorcycle Road Race Champion. Both her and dad Garfield who was also a great racer in his day also are very strong Yesser’s which can be seen by the yes bikers stickers on her race bike ?.”….

    What a girl, eh Lenny? Giving the guys a real run for their money.


    Jodie Chalk Race Replay Donington Park 2016


  196. Petra says:

    @ Lenny Hartley says at 7:42 pm …. ”Bugger gonna have to watch the new BBC Scotland channel next Thursday as there is a program about Jodie Chalks quest to become Scotland’s first Motorcycle Road Race Champion. Both her and dad Garfield who was also a great racer in his day also are very strong Yesser’s which can be seen by the yes bikers stickers on her race bike ?.”….

    What a girl, eh Lenny? Giving the guys a real run for their money.


    Jodie Chalk Race Replay Donington Park 2016


  197. Petra says:

    Ooops sorry about that. Don’t know what happened there.

  198. mike cassidy says:

    First, Iran.

    Now, Russia.

    Enjoy your weekend!

  199. Cubby says:

    BBC Reporting Scotland tonight

    For the second successive night there is a reasonable length report on offensive behaviour at football. For the second night the report fails to mention last years repeal of the Offensive Behaviour at Football act. They even had James Dornan SNP MSP on – I wonder if he mentioned it and it was cut out the report.

    The BBC just cannot bring themselves to criticise the Britnat parties.

    I will not be voting for the Greens EVER for helping to bring the scourge of thuggery and sectarianism back to full strength in Scotland.

    The BBC the unacceptable face of British state propaganda broadcasting.

  200. Liz g says:

    Clydebuilt @ 8.33
    It’s probably trying to punt the new channel.
    Ma Mithers telly won’t show BBC2,it’s just a message asking to retune the programmes menu to be able to receive new channel.
    It says nothing about what to do it ye don’t actually want their shifty new channel….fortunately Mither disnay care about BBC2 anyway 🙂

  201. Cubby says:

    Iiz g @7.51pm

    You are full of bright ideas liz g. May well try that. I’ll let you know if you get me banned from a supermarket.

  202. Cubby says:


    One of your better posts. Glad to see your sense of humour has returned.

  203. jezza says:

    Passing the BBC Scotland building tonight from across the river from it and there is a huge countdown clock on the back of the building telling us “your new channel starts in 2 days …”

    All I could do when I saw this shite was to spit across the river at it.

    Fuck BBC Scotland.

  204. robertknight says:

    The BritNat Brainwashing Channel are Institutionally Unionist, therefore what should we expect?

    Nation shall speak unto nation; but only in the context of all things British being good and all things Scottish being bad.

    Can’t wait for the new North British offering from the factory of lies on the Clyde. The ‘news’ content will no doubt make the likes of RT and Aljazeera seem “trusted” by comparison.

  205. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Going by the length of this particular (2) pages, the bears must be wreaking havoc in Bath, the noo.

  206. Glamaig says:

    I wont be watching the new BBC channel as I dont watch any TV and havent for years – my life is so much better for it.

  207. ronnie anderson says:

    liz g Uk went digital in 2007 & finished in 2012 could sumbudy no hiv re tuned yer mithers tv in that time lol

  208. Lenny Hartley says:

    Petra, aye Jodie is awesome, im wearing my Jodie Hoodie as I type this. 🙂

  209. Dr Jim says:

    Jo Swinson believes Nicola Sturgeon should learn from Theresa May’s negotiation skills over Brexit

    Actual words *has Nicola Sturgeon learned nothing from blah blah blah* seriously really but huge round of applause for it

    Also a huge round of applause when Swinson was introduced as the MP who unseated *the odious John Nicolson*

    Lib Dems applaud themselves for their biggest most unpleasant insults towards people
    so the same as Tories then

    If you want to insult someone and get a laugh for it how about Michael Russell’s comment on Gavin Williamson the defence minister when he called him *The private Pike of the UK government*

    Now that’s a zinger

  210. Why is England called England when it was the Saxons not the Angles that were the dominant German tribe,

    England should have been called Saxonia or Little Saxony after the German tribe that conquered the country.

  211. hackalumpoff says:

    Iiz g @7.51pm
    I’ve been doing that for about six months, great fun just put 6 or so UJ branded items in the trolley and as they come through the till say “oops sorry not allowed that one!”
    I do it in them all, from Lidl(least) to Tesco(worst) although things are “shifting”, noticed today in Tesco Dingwall that they have the Saltire and SCOTTISH in large print but also have the Red Tractor/UJ Logo on the same package.
    The disruption to the queue is no less than someone fiddling for their cards or cash.
    However, it does provide more employment to the shelf stackers, they need the work and the increased costs reduce the employers profit margins, win/win?
    We all have to shop, and we can all make that little protest, in a small way it counters the propaganda.
    All the till operators round here give me a wink, but there may be other reasons for that, hammers coming from SWMBO, ducks…

  212. @Bill McLean,

    as Henry Ford said,

    “History is Bunk”,

    or did he.

  213. Meg merrilees says:


    thanks for clarifying the fact its two different hospitals. Have been out of the news a lot recently so obviously ‘not keeping up!!!”

    Still worrying that it is a bacteria never before seen in Scotland!

  214. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scot Finlayson
    England only became a unified country after the Normans invaded them and introduced feudalism.

  215. Robert Peffers says:

    @ben madigan says: 22 February, 2019 at 4:37 pm:

    ” … Irish people do not claim not to be British. They are not British. They have long asserted their right, in arms and in other ways, not to be termed as such.”

    Utter pish!

    I’m not going to waste time arguing with you, Ben. The Term Britain is a geographic term. It is the name applied to an entire archipelago that lies off the main continent of Europe.

    The entire island of Ireland is the second largest of those islands. It was illegally politically partitioned by the United Kingdom but Ireland is, and will remain, an illegally politically partitioned country but most certainly will one day reunite and be free.

    You are idiotically confusing The United Kingdom as being Britain – It simply is not.

  216. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    RT reporting that Mr Trump considering selling nukes to the head choppers in Saudi Arabia.

    Dear god in heaven what madness, that should go well. Absolutely no chance that stuff could fall into the wrong hands in the middle East.

    Wrong hands like the Sauidis.

    The word has truly gone mad.

    Please someone tells me RT are wrong on this.

  217. Robert Peffers says:

    @HYUFD says: 22 February, 2019 at 7:14 pm

    Robert Peffers As others have noted Britain excludes Ireland, hence it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

  218. ronnie anderson says:

    hackalumpoff I have ah simpler solution for the Onion Fleg packaging put ma thumb through the packet , sumbody gets a cheaper product

  219. cynicalHighlander says:

    ronnie anderson

    Hope you washed your hands first.

  220. Ian Brotherhood says:

    “A cybernat fingered my onions!”

  221. Legerwood says:

    Meg merilees @ 10.41 PM

    The bacteria in question S. aureus is actually widespread and a common infective agent in hospitals. This bacteria is usually identified by the particular bacteriophage it Carrie’s. A bacteriophage, or phage for short, is a virus that infects bacteria.

    S. aureus is routinely typed when it is discovered in hospitals so that they know which one they are dealing with. Phage typing can also be used to differentiate an S aureus that has been acquired in hospital or in the community.

    I was quite surprised when they said it had not been found in Scotland before so did some checking. The 11164 strain was identified in the late 60s from samples of clinical waste and was being researched in the early 70s by a team at Bristol University. They got their samples from a reference lab in London.

    It is one of the strains of S aureus that has multiple antibiotic resistance. Bit worrying as to how it got here.

  222. Robert Peffers says:

    @HYUFD says: 22 February, 2019 at 7:14 pm:
    ” … As others have noted Britain excludes Ireland, hence it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”

    Absolute uneducated balderdash. The term, “Britain”, describes a geographic archipelago of islands and the island of Ireland is the second largest island in the group.

    The country of Ireland was partitioned politically by the United Kingdom Government. Which created, “The Irish Free State”, that was not actually ever free. It was a United Kingdom, (Not a British), dominion. The Irish Free State then made itself free by declaring itself a republic but it still remains part of the island of Ireland. Just as the Country of England will remain part of the island of Great Britain when the legally sovereign people of Scotland end The Treaty of Union that formed the United Kingdom.

    This ending of the Treaty of Union will not make either Scotland or The Kingdom of England not part of Britain, or even of Great Britain. Because it will end the United Kingdom and not either Britain or Great Britain as both these terms are geographic while the Term the United Kingdom is a political term.

    None of which changed the simple fact that the island of Ireland is the politically partitioned geographic country of Ireland.

  223. Capella says:

    @ Legerwood – do you think it possible that the 11164 strain of S Aureus was deliberately introduced to a Scottish hospital?

  224. Hamish100 says:

    legerwood– It is the bbc that are merging 2 separate NHS stories into one.

  225. ronnie anderson says:

    Ah dey the Steak packs Tesco clingfilm then & sell them at reduced price Ah dont finger the meat

  226. ronnie anderson says:

    Tesco Airdrie 4 McGhee’s rolls £1.20 Coatbridge 4 McGhee’s rolls £1 . Tesco the robbing bastwards

  227. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Ronnie Anderson –

    Well, here’s hoping the sausage rolls and bridies for March 2nd have not been pre-fingered.


  228. ronnie anderson says:

    Capella There needs to be a traceability as to how that Virus entered the Hospital , do Porton down have that strain of virus ???.

  229. ronnie anderson says:

    Ian Brotherhood not by my fingers but ah canny speak fur the Bakery staff lol.

  230. ronnie anderson says:

    Ian Brotherhood what numbers are we up to now for 2nd

  231. cynicalHighlander says:


    According to the BBC Guy Fawkes was a member of the SNP, you read it here as breaking news.

  232. Legerwood says:

    Capella says:
    22 February, 2019 at 11:35 pm
    @ Legerwood – do you think it possible that the 11164 strain of S Aureus was deliberately introduced to a Scottish hospital?””
    No. S aureus is widespread in the Community and in Hospitals. The phage which often carry the genes responsible for the virulence of the bacteria can transfer between strains. In addition S aureus contains ‘accessory’ DNA eg plasmids, transposing etc which can play a role in the virulence of the bacteria and in its antibiotic resistance.

    I think I would be more suspicious of the BBC’s stating that 11164 being found in just two countries without giving any reference for that or stating which countries.

    Everytime someone walks into a hospital they take in a whole world of bacteria with them their skin, in their nose, on their clothes etc so …

    Hamish100 says:
    22 February, 2019 at 11:36 pm
    legerwood– It is the bbc that are merging 2 separate NHS stories into one.””

    They are reporting both incidents in the one article on their web site and in their broadcast report but it is quite clear that it is two separate incidents in two separate hospitals involving two entirely different bacteria.

  233. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @ronnie anderson –

    re Numbers for March 2nd, Dows…


    40 confirmed.

    Then there’s the undeclared partners/pals, spur-of-the-moments, ’77 agents, undercover reporters etc etc…


  234. Hackalumpoff says:

    @ Ronnie
    Portion Down V Guga sausage rolls, our secret weapon, samples next Saturday, Citizen Smith’s Bazookas. Is anyone bringing extra toilet rolls, aff.

  235. HYUFD says:

    Robert Peffers Great Britain is an island, the island of Ireland is a separate island, they may be the two biggest islands in the British isles but Ireland is not part of Great Britain

  236. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Hackalumpoff –

    Re: extra toilet rolls.

    Guinness drinkers should bring their own.

    (Come to think of it, that should just be a fixed rule, everywhere.)

  237. yesindyref2 says:

    A long time ago in a land far, far away, our hero found himself in a place called Chiggers, or Eppingorum, with a band of Alemanni chasing a band of Pretani from the South and a band of Pretani chasing a band of Alemanni from the West. None of them were happy with the Wembley jousting adjudicator, or indeed, the result.

    “Schtop” he said. “Stop”. And they all did stop in amazement. “I know a land of milk and honey to the far north, let us away because they have drink of a golden colour that would fair make your eyes water.”.

    And so they did all away and it turned out that our hero was the oldest son of Brave Caledon, the chief of her line, with sons and daughters like wind on the barley. They all had a great banter with the picture drawing natives who had cameras and that, and skinfuls of the amber liquid and lived their short lives in total stupefaction.

    But Caledon had long-term plans for our hero and sent him to sleep for hundreds of years, for our hero was destined to lead Caledon to freedom and an incredible prosperity where we got to keep all our milk and honey, and flog off the amber liquid at £500 a bottle to the Pretani and the Alemanni. And keep the duty.

    And so it is that HIFUD came into our midst, and at first was accorded a hostile reception until he unfurled Caledon’s long anticpated plans for our Independent future.

    Isn’t that right?

  238. cynicalHighlander says:


    You have a fertile imagination.

  239. ronnie anderson says:

    hackalumpoff Bdtts yer manny fur toilet rolls he’s stockpiling them because of Brexit lol

  240. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 00:50,

    Only if you have been imbibing unhealthy quantities of the aforementioned amber liquid, and of dubious provenance. =laugh=

  241. Hackalumpoff says:

    I always thought BDTT was a man of probity not probability but you know best, shit happens..

  242. ronnie anderson says:

    hackalumpoff Shitpaper n Southern Comfort but he’s broke intae the Southern Comfort stockpile lol.

  243. Chick McGregor says:

    History may well be ‘bunk’, but it is a bed we all have to lay in and one from which we have to
    rise and make what we will of a new day.

  244. Daisy Walker says:

    If its got a Jack, put it back…. ON A DIFFERENT SHELF. Heh, heh, heh… no-one says we have to play all the way fair.

  245. Clootie says:

    Another day closer to Brexit BUT also another day closer to Independence 🙂

  246. Ghillie says:

    Clootie, Chris’s cartoon is up 🙂

  247. Nana says:

    Came across this tedtalk on basic income while clearing out my archives, thought some of you might like to watch

    “Ideas can and do change the world,” says historian Rutger Bregman, sharing his case for a provocative one: guaranteed basic income. Learn more about the idea’s 500-year history and a forgotten modern experiment where it actually worked — and imagine how much energy and talent we would unleash if we got rid of poverty once and for all.

  248. Breeks says:

    Nana says:
    23 February, 2019 at 8:01 am

    ….Posting this interview for anyone who may have missed it….

    Thanks Nana.

    Nicola convinced postponing Brexit is almost inevitable…

    Has anybody formally meaningful in the EU confirmed this? The Article 50 period will expire by default on 29th March unless there is unanimous agreement across the 27 member states to extend it, and that of course requires that we also somehow circumvent a UK “government” which seems determined not to request such an extension.

    How will this “inevitable” extension be instigated, and who will instigate it?

    Isn’t this brinkmanship from beyond the brink?

    This feels uncannily like Scotland’s place in the playoffs being out of our hands and determined by other teams’ results, rather than seizing the initiative and blasting through on our own merit.

  249. Nana says:

    Morning Breeks,
    From all I’ve read it would seem the UK would have to request a postponement. Whether the EU would be willing?

    I have seen tweets by EU officials over the last few months stating they would be agreeable but at this late stage and with the continuing animosity towards them by the UKgov, well who knows.

    But I am pretty sure Nicola will have a far better idea of what is happening in the corridors of power than I do 🙂

  250. Nana says:


    Forgot to add, there is also trouble brewing in the ranks, mind it could all be yet another piece of Tory crap theatre

  251. Nana says:

    BBC told to clean up its act over Scottish ‘Question Time’ audience invites

    To call Hunt a donkey is an insult to donkeys!

  252. Legerwood says:

    ronnie anderson says:
    22 February, 2019 at 11:52 pm
    Capella There needs to be a traceability as to how that Virus entered the Hospital , do Porton down have that strain of virus ???.””””””””

    It is NOT a virus. Porton Down has nothing to do with this.

    It, S aureus, is a type of bacteria which is a major cause of infections in hospitals. It is also present in the community and many people are carriers, that is it is present on our skin or in our nose and usually does not cause us any harm.

    As part of the infection control in the maternity hospital and to try to identify the source staff will be screened for this particular strain

  253. Kangaroo says:

    O/T for those of you interested in Global events that directly impact on indy

    *****Gold Standard
    Currency RESET Timetable and news. This is an automated voice channel but does carry the latest news and is usually broadcast everyday

    Another channel using the the same source but with a written summary which is then read out
    This channel also has additional special reports such as

    EU Exodus – End of the European Union Parts 1 and 2

    In this special report it is stated that Irish Unification and Scottish independence have already been agreed.

    These reports also include a small amount of commentary on the REASON behind this Reset

    ****Military Tribunals and Arrests
    Current Military Tribunals being conducted in Guantanamo Bay for 911, US Cole, and Manadalay Hotel(I may have got the wrong name there) attacks. The evidence here will lead to direct convictions of Bush, Cheney, Biden, Clinton, Obama and a whole lot more. There are currently some 76,429 sealed indictments in the USA and normally there would be around 4,500. These are as a result of Grand Juries, equivalent to our Royal Commissions.
    Permission has been granted by the US Department of Defence for alternative media to cover these tribunals here

    So I am watching on one of the approved outlets

    These arrests will eventually include the high he is ones in Europe and other continents that have been involved eg the Australian Cardinal Pell and even higher.

    Hold on to your hats its going to to be a roller coaster ride.

    I put this here so it would NOT directly intrude on the current topic as some people get annoyed.

  254. Tinto Chiel says:

    The Irish Times article on racial comments in the UK is both worrying and depressing, Nana.

    Irrespective of what finally happens with Brexit, it’s difficult to see how England in particular can recover whatever social cohesion it once had. The shameful dog whistle attitudes of both Tory and Labour with regards to immigration have done a lot of damage.

    It’s too reminiscent of Europe in the Thirties for any comfort.

  255. Capella says:

    @ Legerwood – coming back late to the thread. Thx for the detailed response upthread. I thought from your earlier post that you had some suspicion about how the bacteria got here. But I agree that the BBC strangely reported that it is only found in two other countries but hasn’t said which ones.

  256. Petra says:

    Thanks for the links Nana. I was checking out the Alyn Smith blog (8:01am), which included a link to the current EU deals, however when I tried to take a look at that I found that I can’t access if for some reason or another. Then again maybe there’s nothing to see, lol.


    Great article explaining how the single market works, Nana. Interesting to note that some Tory politicians (Labour and LibDem) don’t seem to have any idea of the ins and outs of this at all, such as Boris Johnston, Jacob Rees-Mogg and David Davis (examples online) all of whom could become the next Prime Minister. Absolutely terrifying to think about.


    It looks as though some people still think that the EU won’t allow for an extension of the Brexit talks. Jean-Claude Juncker, the Head of the European Commission, has made it clear that this is NOT the case at all. He confirmed that an extension was possible as recently as 5 days ago.

    ‘No one in Europe would oppose extension to Brexit talks – Juncker.’

    …“Any decision to ask for more time lies with the UK. If such a request were to be made, no one in Europe would oppose it. If you are asking for how long the withdrawal can be postponed, I have no time frame in mind,” Juncker told the German newspaper.

    Many EU officials note that elections to the European Parliament on May 23-26 and the first sitting of the new parliament at the start of July creates a natural time-limit for any extension, which should not go beyond end of June.

    Juncker also indicated a longer extension could be problematic, but did not exclude it.”…

  257. Nana says:


    You can access the link if you click to download,

    Opens to a list of EU trade agreements

  258. Legerwood says:

    Capella says:
    23 February, 2019 at 1:46 pm
    @ Legerwood – coming back late to the thread. Thx for the detailed response upthread. I thought from your earlier post that you had some suspicion about how the bacteria got here.””


    Nearly had a fit when I saw your post and realised I had been just a bit too cryptic.

    Apologies for that.

  259. Petra says:

    @ Nana says at 4:03 pm – ”Petra – You can access the link if you click to download. Opens to a list of EU trade agreements”

    Ha ha ha. I can see that now Nana. In fact I did try that and had 7 pdf links at the bottom of my screen which I didn’t notice until I checked this out – ”eyes rolling”. I reckon I’m going doolally now and my husband agrees, lol.

  260. Nana says:


    I’m thinking of starting up a ‘doolally’ club. I reckon there could be a good few takers for a membership 🙂

  261. Kangaroo says:

    For those who need a follow up to my previous post regarding the rigged Superbowl. New England Patriots owner charged with soliciting prostitution and human trafficking.

  262. Kangaroo says:

    A good movie The Conspiracy Project

    Full movie Free on youtube

    Here is the Trailer

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