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Counting With James Kelly MSP

Posted on February 19, 2019 by

Alex Cole-Hamilton’s reign was the shortest on record.

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Mcdenster

Gotta love Wee Dim Jim?

cynicalHighlander

His brain cell has gone for its daily update.

Simone

There’s stupid and then there’s James Kelly Stupid.
Good job his brief isn’t linked to anything maths related….

Bill Hume

One contest where we are spoiled for choice…….fun, isn’t it.

winifred mccartney

LABOURS finance spokesman that is all you need to know.

JOML

Don’t be too hard on the boy, he’s only the cashier for the Scottish Branch and not a real Finance Minister… and takings gathered from their members are very small, with only fingers required for the accounting.

Fairliered

If only I had the intelligence of James Kelly and the charisma of Alex Cole Hamilton, I would be a farce to be reckoned with!

Ken500

Goodness. A journalist questions a unionist.

Legerwood

Ken500 says:
19 February, 2019 at 6:06 pm
Goodness. A journalist questions a unionist.””

Well spotted.

Bugger Le Panda

James Kelly probably thinks that the Finance Minister is the one who takes the biscuit box home, nightly.

Truth

For fucks sake. Seriously, that is taking the piss.

We all laugh and joke about his ability, but this confirms he is stealing an income from the taxpayer.

He should be damned well ashamed of himself. Fucking pathetic.

Capella

Poor AC-H. There he was, basking in glory in the top spot when along came James Kelly. Better luck next week Alex.

It always seems unfair to mock James Kelly who is only doing his best. The real mystery is why Richard Leonard appointed him as Finance spokesman. Yes I know he was a book-keeper. But it’s the “spokesman” bit that defeats him.

Socrates MacSporran

Back to normality – Ra Sellik-Minded top of the league.

Fairliered “the intelligence of James Kelly and the charisma of Alex Cole Hamilton,” is that not a description of Wee Willie Rennie? Definitely a farce to be reckoned with.

Bugger Le Panda Apologies for the pedantry, but, the Sellik-minded, such as the current league leader operate out of biscuit tins, rather than boxes.

Murdo WATP Fraser and friends are on OPM (Other People’s Money).

Macart

Two beauts in one day.

Messrs Cole-Hamilton and Kelly should take a bow. 😀

ronnie anderson

Rev ah think their wide tae your scoreboard their vining tae outdo wan n ither in record quick time lol.

hackalumpoff

Superb, own Goal of the the year. Surely he is now due promotion to a league of his own, what more can he do?

jezza

Believe it or not he is actually a Chartered accountant:

He has a background in computing and finance, is a chartered accountant, and worked as a business analyst in East Kilbride prior to his election in 2007.

link to upclosed.com

ronnie anderson

Mcdenster wrang wee dim Jim, Wee Dim Jims Murphy’s moniker Kelly wiznae significant enough for us tae write ah song aboot him .

Bugger Le Panda

@Jezza

He printed them himself with his John Bull printing kit.

Auld Rock

Give the poor lad a chance, his brain can’t cope with more than one simple problem at a time as he wonders which Labour he belongs too.

sandy

With reference to my post on the immediately previous item, Kelly is up there with the rest, determined not to be left behind.

My goodness, it’s going to be a close run competition.

Gamblers out there, what do you reckon the odds are?

Republicofscotland

This is why dolts like Kelly will never be taken seriously. Like his branch office of London Labour in Scotland, Kelly is reduced to carping factless nonsense from the sidelines.

It’s really scarey to think what Scotland would look like if Labour were in government.

Ken MacColl

Surely James Kelly should carry a handicap in this contest? He is not doing it deliberately.
Willie Rennie has a natural flair for the moronic intervention.If only he could see the smirking coupon of his predecessor, Tavish Scott, sitting behind him, as he poses his “killer ” questions

galamcennalath

There seems to be something BritNat politicians in Scotland appear to have in common …. can’t just put my finger in it … could it be …. ah, yes, they’re all intellectually challenged!

OT An additional 7,000 sq km area of the central North Sea was reassessed and is now considered as a potential area for new exploration. Dratt… even more oil, how can we cope!?

link to archive.is

yesindyref2

@Mcdenster “Gotta love Wee Dim Jim?

You gotta love Tom Gordon – I think he really really just doesn’t love politicians.

Inverclyder

No, just for a minute imagine….

Kelly and Cole Hyphenated Hamilton managed to procreate.

Of course you don’t need to imagine as Annie Wells seems to exist!

jezza

Bugger Le Panda

Do you think he is tellin porkies Panda???

Would anybody honestly use James Kelly as an accountant???

geeo

We must be overdue an annie wells’ism’..!

A person so dim, she cannot even think of something stupid to say…!

That is the standard of competition going on here.

yesindyref2

OT
Another from Gordon’s twitter:

Just did that. Short money is calculated on the results of a General Election. It is given to political parties. Groups formed after the general election aren’t entitled to Short money, even if they register as a new party.

which is exactly what I thought. I’d say it possibly (probably) also relates to Ian Blackford’s 3rd party PMQ slot.

geeo

@yesindyref2.

Tom Gordon is an absolute scumbag. 100% unequivical about that assessment.

He has zero redeeming features.

jezza

Kelly is also the standard bearer for sectarianism in Scotland.

He fought the Scottish Government all the way to get that football Bill reversed.

yesindyref2

That’s confirmed (allegedly) in Gordon’s new article:

However the House of Commons has confirmed that short money is not available “to a new political party, if it was established in the middle of parliament”.

alexicon

Mis reporting Scotland giving McConnell the credit for starting the ball rolling on the Aberdeen by pass.
Did he not give up on it once it went to court?

yesindyref2

@geeo
I have a different opinion. I enjoy reading his articles, even if critical.

What he is, though, is a must-read for Indy supporters, as what he writes is far more “sensible” than anything the SiU rabble produce.

Donald Urquhart

Stu,

We need a graphic and a league table – based on 3points for getting to the top and a single point for each subsequent week remaining on top. Season could be same as football to account for summer recess.

In the SPL Celtic are not going to be caught, but in league with Cole-Hamilton, Kelly, Greene and ‘How do emails work, Findlay’ it’s a guaranteed helicopter Saturday.

Donald anderson

Criminalise the numpty.

Alba 46

geeo @6:48

We must be overdue an annie wells’ism’..!

A person so dim, she cannot even think of something stupid to say…!

Quote of the year so far.

Absolute classic, nearly fell off my chair laughing

[…] Wings Over Scotland Counting With James Kelly MSP Alex Cole-Hamilton’s reign was the shortest on record. Read the full […]

Dr Jim

Sit down Mr Kelly, sit down Mr Kelly, Mr Kelly sit down!

Escort Mr Kelly from the chamber, Mr Kelly will be excluded from the rest of the day’s business

Why can Mr Kelly not just be permanently excluded from everybody’s business

He could go back to his pigeons, wear his old clothes and bunnet and be happy on his allotment, or Alex Rowley’s allotment, anywhere but Holyrood

Gary45%

Dumb and Dumber 3, produced in Holyrood.

Socrates MacSporran

The following is copied from a past thread on WoS. This quoted post was posted at 8.33pm, on 16 May, 2016; nearly three years ago.

re James Kelly being a Chartered Accountant – he isn’t. He has a certificate from the Chartered Institute of Management Accountancy, a lesser qualification from a less prestigious body than the Institute of Chartered Accountants, which alone can award the qualification of Chartered Accountant. However, he seems quite happy to pass himself off as one – his Wiki description has specifically stated that he is a chartered accountant for years, and he has made no effort to correct it.

All that time ago, and he STILL has not corrected his false qualification claim. As they might say in his Rutherglen fiefdom: “What a walloper.”

Brian Doonthetoon

Hi jezza at 6:28 pm.

You typed,

“He has a background in computing and finance, is a chartered accountant, and worked as a business analyst in East Kilbride prior to his election in 2007.

link to upclosed.com

Nah, I think I prefer the definitive biography of Mr Kelly, that can be found here:-

link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk

ScottieDog

“However the House of Commons has confirmed that short money is not available “to a new political party, if it was established in the middle of parliament”. “

Maybe they sniff out a general election in the hope of gaining 3rd party and toppling Corbyn as labour leader…

Jason Smoothpiece

Thats the opposition! Why are we not yet independent?

Who actually votes for these clowns?

dakk

All these unionist doup lickers are so desperate to inflict harm on Scotland’s good governance for their british masters that they don’t even pause to consider their own inanity.

The appalling calibre of unionist politicians tells you all you need to know about unionism and the union.

Petra

Don’t you think that it’s a real worry that the BritNat politicians at Holyrood seem to be seriously inept and totally devoid of moral values? What’s going to happen when we become Independent? Some SNP MPs returning from London may stand for election and some in the SNP party right now may leave to form another party, such as a Labour type, join the Greens, stand as Independents and so on. The SNP may also change its name, of course. What I’d really like to know is this. Has anyone on here identified any half decent, intelligent Scottish Tory, Labour or Libdem politicians? I can only think of one …. Andy Wightman. Serious question: Can anyone think of any others?

chicmac

Since James Kelly’s wife is called Alexa, I pondered on the kind of funny situations that might cause in his household, assuming he has the computer nous to install Alexa that is.

I asked our Alexa ‘Who is James Kelly’ she replied a former Australian rules footballer… ouch.

Scot Finlayson

@Socrates MacSporran,

seems to be a thing with the British Labour infesting Scotland,

here is Paul Sweeney
?
Verified account twitter

@PaulJSweeney

replying to @DunoonSNP
`I have a first class honours degree in Economics from Glasgow University, but thanks for the advice…`

he actually has a degree in Economic History,

a bit like saying you are a journalist when all you are is a dollar a word hack for some Scottish rag.

Robert J. Sutherland

Fairliered @ 18:05,

Oh my, that one wins Dorothy Parker Award of the week, I reckon. =grin=

On the other hand. Nicola is proving as sharp as a tack. In this uneasy quiet before the storm, what is she doing but using her time productively by visiting people of influence and garnering credit for Scotland. No wonder the dog-in-manger BritNats don’t like it.

Oh dear, what a pity for the party-pooper party.

jezza

Briandoonthetoon 8.01pm

Your version of Kelly’s past seems closer to the truth.

Morgatron

CLTR-ALT-DELETE

defo

Does anyone know what Labours problem with the humble vest actually is?

Morgatron

He’s a total windy licker

jezza

He’s another one of these Irish Republican BritNats.

A strange combination of Irish Freedom Fighter mixed with Scottish Unionist.

Robert J. Sutherland

me @ 20:55,

Oh, and I forgot to add (if it hasn’t been mentioned already and I’ve somehow missed it), “Nicole” – as the announcer pronounced it – was on France 24 news in person this evening. A full interview will be screened this coming Saturday. Those not paying the BBC Tax will presumably be able to view it on their website.

Tackety Beets

Chicmac @ 8.41

If I ever meet James Kelly

“Gidaay, what’s your favourite colour Blue” It would go over his head for sure.

Capella

@ jezza upthread – to say he is a Chartered Accountant with a background in computing and finance probably just means he uses spreadsheets.

Labour have a proud tradition in asking silly questions. Who can forget Ian Grey’s immortal “Where is the money for an oil fund coming from?” sadly removed from Youtube.

But there is still his Bak to Skool contribution:
link to youtube.com

jockmcx

Thanks to Jack Murphy 2.40pm
for providing a youtube link to that IndyCar Gordon Ross vid
i was having trouble viewing via Nana’s facebook link last
night.
It’s here if anyone want’s…
link to youtube.com

Nana also provided an alternative facebook link to the vid
last night which worked perfectly…
Thanks to all.

Lenny Hartley

Scott Finlayson a dollar a word hack, I wish , magazine i do work for only pays 9 pence per word.

Tackety Beets

Petra, Ref other decent MPs or MSPs

John Finnie GG (Good Guy)
We would need to Keep Willie Rennie , he is so impotent but always guarantees a laugh. He just keeps his stupid grin when Holyrood is laughing at him.

Naw can’t think of any others. FFS!

SilverDarling

Does he do his own taxes? Eek!

jezza

How do you become a Labour MSP???

You must have no more than three brain cells and pair of Union Jack pants.

Then get an electorate with similar qualifications to vote you in.

Robert Peffers

@ Jezza says: 19 February, 2019 at 6:28 pm:

” … Believe it or not he is actually a Chartered accountant:”

I’m not so sure about that, Jezza. He claims to be a Chartered Accountant – has anyone checked that he is?

Just found this wee snippet on Google:-

” … If you need to confirm someone is a CA, you can search for them by name on our Find a CA service. All members listed in this directory are current members of ICAS, and entitled to call themselves Chartered Accountants”.

The page showed these initials as blue underlined links but the page went off on its own as I was about to copy the links.

Scot Finlayson

@Lenny Hartley,

just looked it up, $50 for 500 words is the average for a freelance,

and i though all you journalists were millionaires.

jezza

Get Jackie Burd to ask him on tomorrows reporting Scotland.

James Kelly, are you really a Chartered Accountant???

Course a um Jackie!!!

Bobby Klaus

A CIMA accountant is a management accountant. A CA is a public practice accountant. Although the roles can be interchangeable. But the qualifications are of similar status.

The CIMA website only lets your search for those who are acting in public practice.

Robert Peffers

@Socrates MacSporran says: 19 February, 2019 at 8:01 pm:

” … re James Kelly being a Chartered Accountant – he isn’t. He has a certificate from the Chartered Institute of Management Accountancy, a lesser qualification from a less prestigious body than the Institute of Chartered Accountants, which alone can award the qualification of Chartered Accountant.”

Yes, Socrates. That is why I replied to Jezza. The links I was attempting to copy when the page vanished was because the Chartered Accountants take a dim view of imposters. I believe the take legal action. However I’m having keyboard problems on my machine just now and typing anything is a problem.

Socrates MacSporran

Robert Peffers

Further to my post above, and your subsequent post. I managed to get into the ICAS (Institute of Chartered Accountants, Scotland) website and was able to use their “Find a CA” app. I tried James Kelly in Glasgow, Rutherglen, Cambuslang and Edinburgh – and nobody came up.

I am therefore pretty certain, oor Jimmy isnae a Chartered Accountant, as he claims to be.

Lenny Hartley

Scott Finlayson, dont tar me with that brush please 🙂 im a photographer who has to caption my photos with a wee story !! Although the magazine I do most of my work for is trying to put the emphasis on words as they are a lot cheaper than photos so their about to get the bums rush 🙂

Legerwood

Petra @ 8:29 pm
“”Don’t you think that it’s a real worry that the BritNat politicians at Holyrood seem to be seriously inept and totally devoid of moral values?””
……….

A serious point. During the first indyref this was raised several times in the Letters page of the Herald. People questioned whether were enough talented people to form Governments in an independent Scotland. The quality, or more accurately, the lack of quality in the unionist parties in particular made them question whether Scotland should or could be independent.

The ineptitude of the opposition politicians may give us hours of amusement but…it does present a barrier for some people on their journey to supporting independence.

Unfortunately we can’t turn these pigs’ ears into silk purses.

Dave McEwan Hill

Breaking now….another Labour MP resigns from the party

call me dave

New:BBC Reports.

Joan Ryan becomes eighth Labour MP to quit the party for Independent Group, citing “culture of anti-Jewish racism”

ScottieDog

Another labour resignation. Not a labour fan but some of the accusations – FFS.
And of course the new party won’t declare donor.

ScottieDog

Looks like a plot to destroy the labour left.
Wheres that neoliberal twat milliband? He’ll be along shortly.
Not the goofy one.

Terencecallachan

Jason smoothpiece ..8.09

People in Scotland don’t vote for the Labour or Tory or Lib Dem MP,s they vote for the cause, they would vote for a monkey if it were contesting elections for the British nationalist cause let’s face it nearly all of those representing labour Tory and Lib Dem in Scotland are incompetents

Dr Jim

Madame Ecosse will return on Thursday for FMQs

call me dave

Snap!

Caley Thistle win on penalties: Good game. 🙂

jfngw

I’m sure ACH will want his slot back, I believe he thinks the AWPR is not finished because the landscaping is not complete. I made that up, thought I should say so as it would be too easy to believe with this MSP.

cctxt

O/T
latest brexit proposal ……

link to prospectmagazine.co.uk

Robert Peffers

@Legerwood says: 19 February, 2019 at 10:20 pm:

” … A serious point. During the first indyref this was raised several times in the Letters page of the Herald. People questioned whether were enough talented people to form Governments in an independent Scotland. The quality, or more accurately, the lack of quality in the unionist parties in particular made them question whether Scotland should or could be independent.”

It will not be a worry, Legerwood, for no party that is currently a unionist Westminster party can stand for a Scottish independent parliament. They will have to be registered as a Scottish party and none of the current lot are. There are, all three, United Kingdom parties.

No doubt there will be a Scottish Labour Party and a Scottish Tory Party and even a Scottish LibDem party. They will not, though, be in any way, incorporated it a foreign countries political party as they are just now.
The ineptitude of the opposition politicians may give us hours of amusement but…it does present a barrier for some people on their journey to supporting independence.
Unfortunately we can’t turn these pigs’ ears into silk purses.

jfngw

I think BBC Brian Taylor must be in with a shout, he seems to think that 61 votes for the tax changes against 52 against only passed because the 6 Greens abstained. Maybe he consulted with James Kelly when preparing his report.

Either that or he thinks the public are too stupid to do a bit of arithmetic.

Petra

@ Tackety Beets at 9:17pm ….. “John Finnie – Good guy.”

So that’s it we’ve now got two on our list, lol. Both Green Party politicians. Pretty poor show, eh?

……………….
O/T

Derek Hatton returns to the fold.

link to independent.co.uk

Meg merrilees

cctxt

re your O/T post…. I find myself almost considering this as a solution but inevitably come back to:

Never trust a Tory

Unfortunately T May has been so duplicitous to date that she is totally untrustworthy, remember she leads a government that has been found in Contempt of Parliament.

I think the sensible thing is actually mentioned, and mentioned as a simple Act – revoke Article 50.

Meg merrilees

cctxt

also – doesn’t the implementation of the backstop breach the terms of the Treaty /Acts of Union about one port being able to trade freely with another throughout the British Isles with no impediment.

Meg merrilees

jfngw

I read that Brian Taylor report and found it quite mystifying in terms of trying to understand exactly what happened this afternoon.

Bit too smug for me.

yesindyref2

Well, during Indy Ref 1 I knew a guy, a fierce Nationalist all his life who had his doubts because of the quality of the politicians. People like Alex Salmond, fine, but few others. My answer was that they’d have to grow into the roles, and that without Westminster being the “big Parliament” and Holyrood the “Parish council” (my words not his), politicians or prosepective ones would have to choose Holyrood.

He and his kids did vote YES, I think it’s more to do with the way Westminster and BT carried on, than my words!

yesindyref2

Oh yeah, missed the important thing as always. He was going to vote NO because of that lack of policitians, and “Scotland’s not ready”. He changed his mind.

Meg merrilees

Call me dave

Lots of squirrels running about in WM just now.

Apparently another MP made the mistake of thinking out loud this afternoon that the rebels are being backed financially, shall we say, by people who are not subsidising the Palestinians.( trying to make sure the Rev’s feed stays squeaky clean on this subject)

Meg merrilees

Scottie Dog

if you sniff a GE you stay in your party and change it from the inside. A 3rd party will only split the vote and make it easier for the Tories to win UNLESS our Nigel gets his act together and resurrects UKIP which would split the Tory vote.

The only way the new rebels stand a chance is if they become a cross-party group of rebels – a new centrist party – but isn’t that taking the wind out of the sails of J.K Rowling and Blair – unless….. he plans to ride to the rescue.

If they want to topple Corbyn they stand a better chance doing that from inside the party.
I.M.H.O.

Robert J. Sutherland

Meg merrilees @ 22:47.

I have thought the exact same thing, Meg.

Article IV of the 1707 Treaty of Union.

I’ve been seriously thinking of sending a petition to the EU Parliament, asking MEPs not to ratify May’s backstop deal (as they must do) on the grounds that Art.50 requires the withdrawal be in accordance with the constitution of the leaving country, and that agreement would potentially be in breach.

And the 1707 Treaty of Union is the foundation document of the constitution.

(Oddly enough, that appeal would also presumably have the support of the hardline Leavers and the DUP. It would certainly force the issue – no-deal or split. A raw binary choice.)

geeo

Alba46@7.41pm

Glad you liked it.

There will be better around the corner soon i expect !

Liz g

cctx @ 10.32
Typical… It still doesn’t solve the problem if Scotland and N. Ireland are out voted by England …Again.
It also risks (potentially) Wales Scotland and N. Ireland being out voted by England..
So as I said Typical .. An English solution for the problem but by no stretch of the imagination a UK one,and at this point in time I don’t think they dare!
Which, I think, is a major reason for not having a people’s vote in general.. they (Westminster) didn’t expect such a disparity in the 2016 vote, and won’t risk it happening again, again, only more pronounced!!

geeo

Oops…forgot about the filter. MR 46 from now on.

Robert J. Sutherland

yesindyref2 @ 22:48,

It’s the old colonial liberation argument recycled.

But rank incompetence of London “management” =cough= is going to be the big issue of IR2, the one that will win over most converts, I think. Just like your acquaintance before.

We will have something more than just kumbaya next time round.

Calum McKay

Kelly never fails to make an arse of himself when he opens his mouth. To his credit he does so at the most important times in front of everyone. An utter star!

Famous15

The thought that inept and down right dumb opposition politicians is a reason for not supporting Independence is on par with absurd argument that since Brexit is chaotic so would Independence be chaotic even though different people and parties are responsible.

Phew.

There is more strength and depth in the SNP alone never mind the wall flowers in the opposition parties who remain silent out of embarrassment.

geeo

@meg merrilees

Chances on The War Criminal being invited to be new leader of the 8 (or whatever number it is in future) ?

yesindyref2

@RJS
It’s nearly spring and planting seeds is always a good idea.

Could be interesting just asking people a simple question “Which do you think is more competent, Westminster or Holyrood?”

Could load the question with “Westminster with its Brexit shambles or Holyrood” but that’s up to the individual!

Dr Jim

All over the internet tonight Yoons be angry, not because they’re losing, because they’ve lost

Dr Jim

Politicians make policy but civil servants do the actual running and operational stuff so there is no comparison to make as to the running of stuff, only the calibre of the policy makers and so far Scotlands policies are working and we’re better served by our services than in the south

Clootie

He could play the parts of dumb and dumber. James will think that’s three roles.

Robert J. Sutherland

yesindyref2 @ 23:13,

The way that question should be put, IMO, is to employ some judicious re-framing:

“If Scotland at the moment were exactly the same as Ireland [hint, hint], an independent country and full member of the EU, would you be wanting to leave and join with England as its junior partner?”

I can’t imagine that many of the switherers would be replying “yes”, can you?

Inverclyder

With them (up to this point in time) having 8 members of this new TIG – Tony Is Great party what are they going to call themselves?

Since there’s 8 iy’s got to be the Kelly Dozen!

Dr Jim

Scotland is no more important than the Borough of Lambeth says Stephen Daisley

I guess we’ll know the answer to that quite soon eh

Inverclyder

With them (up to this point in time) having 8 members of this new TIG – Tony Is Great party what are they going to call themselves?

Since there’s 8 it’s got to be the Kelly Dozen!

Cubby

Loving the ” counting with” series. With all the Britnat diddys in Scotland this series could run for a very long time.

yesindyref2

@RJS
It’s a good question but more pushy. I tended in Indy Ref 1 always just to ask straight questions, you can see a wee opening maybe afterwards then and put in something a bit more.

For me it needs campaigners and openers, much more of the former, but more than there were of the second. I’m the second, do my stuff, then others can move in after me 🙂

The other thing is sometimes you see campaigners talking and the person or persons afterwards shaking their heads. That’s the time to drift over and ask a slightly opposite loaded question like “What did you thnk of that?”. “Rubbish”. “Well, a lot of people are very enthusiastic and can be a bit pushy, it’s just because they believe so much in what they say I guess”. Can re-open minds.

Ah well, won’t be long now.

Legerwood

ScottieDog says:
19 February, 2019 at 10:22 pm
“”Looks like a plot to destroy the labour left.
Wheres that neoliberal twat milliband? He’ll be along shortly.
Not the goofy one.””
………

Thought they were both a bit goofy. Is there not a picture of David Milliband holding a banana and managing to make the banana look like the intelligent one.

Neither brother seems to have happy photo ops with food.

Petra

@ Legerwood at 10:20pm ….. “You can’t turn pigs ears into silk purses.”

That’s for sure Legerwood. It does make you wonder mind you how many people have been / are being put off of Independence not so much by the SNP but by people like James Kelly. You don’t have to be a political anorak to question if he’s the full shilling or not. You just have to be an ordinary Joe Soap unfortunate enough to see / hear him in the passing for a few minutes on the television.

…………………

@ Robert (P) at 10:33pm …. “Three UK parties out on their bahookies come Independence.”

Yes they’ll be defunct Robert, but the essence of the question is who exactly will fill their shoes? Will they reregister as Scottish parties with the same numpties standing for re-election? If so and they manage to get through we’ll be left with the same old lying, lazy ignoramuses. If they disappear into the blue is there anyone else worth their salt out there suitable enough to form another Labour, Tory and Libdem party? Many of these politicians were formerly Councillors, as an example, and the current crop of Councillors come across as being the dregs of humanity too, such as the OO cabal.

Robert J. Sutherland

Why, oh why, are so many on here apparently desperately bothered that Labour is finally fissuring due to its own suppressed contradictions? Methinks some people protesteth too much.

On the contrary, let’s have more of it, I say.

We have tried to engage them and encourage more positive thinking, and all they have done is collaborated with the Tories against us in their Doom War. So let them reap what they have sown, and let us cheer their confusion to the rafters. We need them out of the way.

And may the contagion spread to the FibDems and the Blue Tories as well. They all have it coming.

Hamish100

If the UK post brexit is so attractive to other coubtries ans industries why are they leaving? PM, how many new companies are aetting up? Oops none.

Liz g

Robert J Sutherland @ 11.34
I think,and I only think!!
It’s because Labour are still a threat to Indy.
There are many “so called” natural Labour voter’s in the Yes movement…. Even now,after everything… They still want the Labour party to be what it promised to be at the start.
There’s the long term identification with it’s “stated” values and the Loyalty…. Ahh the fucking Loyalty!!
That wan wee word…
It’s been portrayed as a good thing from time immemorial..
But it’s not …it’s really not,it gets people killed and enslaved people to an elite.
Loyalty is a shit thing to have and stupid thing to cleave to and the sooner people realise it the better.
But there it is!!

Petra

@ Meg and RJS …… “Breach of the Treaty of Union.”

Isn’t it possible that Nicola Sturgeon (et al) is also waiting to see what they do and then make her move on that? Remember Mundell and Davidson threatened to resign, as we thought (some of us on here), due to this very issue?

Robert J. Sutherland

Liz g @ 23:49,

But that’s exactly my point, Liz. The more Labour fracture, the more that residual supporter loyalty is likely to break down. (As you indeed seem to appreciate.)

And yet I seem to sense some kind of undercurrent of disapproval of the split.

Or am I just imagining it…?

Robert J. Sutherland

Petra @ 23:51,

Yes it is. I truly hope so, anyway.

Breeks will be so pleased! =laugh=

Meanwhile, Nicola has been assidously making friends with those who matter…

yesindyref2

Sturgeon’s speech in full:

link to thenational.scot

Petra

Isn’t this Westminster fiasco right up our street, lol? The MSM have been doing their utmost to suppress information, in particular from the Scots. People who aren’t politically minded don’t have a clue about MANY of the issues that we are aware of on here, but the in your face T May performance, companies leaving / shutting down and the latest implosion of the Labour Party must have them all really thinking now. And there will no doubt be worse to come before the end of this month alone. Tickety, tockety.

CameronB Brodie

‘Scotland is no more important than the Borough of Lambeth’

And there you have an examplet of British/English nationalism’s inherent cultural chauvinism, an inability to value Others as being both different and equal.

Liz g

Petra @ 11.32
‘re Robert Peffers @ 10.33
I suspect that, for a time,the current Unionist Parties will stay in place and be the conduit for the “Reunification/Confirmation Vote” campaign that will surely follow the Yes vote.
This is why I think we need to stay on the ball after the Yes vote…
My solution would be… To sell our Constitution to Scotland..
And as a part of that sale,I’d propose.

That Holyrood can sign Scotland up to any International TREATY it thinks is advantageous to Scotland.
But EACH and EVERY TREATY is subject to a 25/30 year Sunset Clause ..NO exceptions..

Every 25yrs the Treaty MUST be put to the people’s of Scotland for ratification.. The TREATY is automatically and immediately Dissolved if Holyrood fail to do so for ANY reason..
This way no Scot born into any union/treaty agreements would be stuck with it… after a few years as a voter… They will have the Constitutional right to reject it

This would be reasonable to the international community because we (Scotland) have form with trying to get away from old Treaties the Ancestors signed us up to.
But what it also does is.

Make sure that no group of Politicians in Holyrood can ever again sign Scotland up to a Treaty for 300 odd year’s!
We can’t bind future generations of Scots,but we can give them the means,as best we can to protect their Sovereignty!

Holyrood can then sign up to things like the EU and NATO in the full knowledge that Scottish Sovereignty is protected at the point of signing.

This constitutional protection of Scotland’s Sovereignty going forward would,also make any reunification campaign pointless as it couldn’t last any more than 25/30 year’s ever!!

Liz g

Robert J Sutherland @ 11.57
If you sensed that undercurrent of disapproval coming from me then you are right..
But for the avoidance of doubt!
My issue ( other than the obvious anti Indy stuff) is not with Labour.
My issue here is only with the concept of Loyalty.
It,for me,is like religion… Only for the benefit of the rulers…and,for the purposes of the Independence discussion.
Loyalty has no place in politics…

TJenny

yesindyref2 – my, that was a grand speech from oor Nicola. Wonder if she got a standing ovation?

Artyhetty

Thing is these people are paid highly to shaft Scotland. They take their orders from their masters in London, the English based UK Labour and Tory parties.

Re; Legerwood and Petra@10.20pm

While these Britnat MSP’s are not what we should expect in terms of capability in such highly paid jobs in government, their apparent ignorance and stupidity is also deliberate.

It is an attempt to bring down the validity of the devolved parliament, as well as gas lighting the SNP, and in fact the population of Scotland. It’s orchestrated and sinister.

Re; Robert peffers@10.33pm

So as you say, the apparent ineptitude we are seeing from the Britnats at Holyrood, poses a problem in some minds about whether Scotland can manage to be independent. They however would be out of a job on independence day.

Scotland will do very well without these sort of jobsworths, there are plenty of intelligent and sincere people who will be very capable of doing the job of running our country, whether in power or whether in opposition.

North chiel

“ Liza @1230” , I like your proposals to protect Scottish sovereignty, and to prevent “our politicians signing Scotland up to 300 odd year treaties “

Petra

@Liz at 12:30am …… “Constitutional protection.”

Spot on Liz. We’ve been lumped with this garbage for over 300 years now. Garbage that the population didn’t even vote for until 2014 when we lost due to corruption and lies, IMO. Akin to Brexit. Over time we’ve seen things change, move with the times, such as votes for women (and men), but little has changed for us as a country. And on the subject of our future written Constitution I read somewhere that Dr Mark McNaught will be questioned about his work at Holyrood next week … 23rd.

…………….

Great speech from Nicola outlined in the National. Doing a fantastic job of talking up Scotland of course. I thought I’d have a look to see what the BBC had to say about her visit and speech. Very little as per usual other than a focus on immigration. Stirring it up? This article is only one of two open for comments. The other is fairly insignificant. Check it out. Over 1000 comments with many being an absolute disgrace … in the main racist. And the BBC continue to have the bl**dy brass neck to say that they are honest, impartial etc.

One thing I did notice however was that Glen Campbell stated that there has been around 400 engagements with the EU etc since 2016. Nicola doing the day job …. PLUS. Engagements that the BBC don’t seem to have covered.

link to bbc.co.uk

Liz g

Artyhetty @ 1.04
RE. Ledgerwood & Petra
I’m with you on that,I’ve long thought the term useful idiots was particularly apt for the dross that the Unionist parties continually put forward in Holyrood.
There’s far too many of them to be accidental,or happenstance,it has to be deliberate!

Dr Jim

There are things Nicola Sturgeon can’t say until she can say them, if that makes sense
Every time I hear her deliver one of these speeches I hear what she’s NOT saying and it must be the most frustrating thing ever for her not to be able to announce she has a plan to sort Scotlands position out

I guess she says a lot in private though, to the right people

Liz g

Petra @ 1.24
Thanks for that I’ll certainly look in on it to see what he’s sayin… I understand he has done a lot of work on it…
But here the rub…
We(the people) need a platform,I don’t yet know who and I don’t know how.. But we cannot leave our Constitution to “Civic Scotland” because,to coin and mutilate a phrase..
It will be of them.
By them.
And for them…
… So We need an “US”..
……………….

North Chiel @ 1.18
Thank you… And can I ask,if, you are ever in a position to promote our Constitution forbidding our Politicians in Holyrood from signing Scotland up to Treaties that have no Sunset Clause that you do so…

IMHO it just makes sense,we’d never, ever, have the need for a Farage and his poison..
We can relax in the knowledge that our Constitution can get us out of any Union that no longer works for Scotland!

twathater

RJS 11/54pm hear , hear ,the more these britnat unionist dumbos expose themselves even jockland news will have difficulty defending them ( or maybe not ) I have no sympathy or empathy for any of them they have used and abused Scotland and its people for too long , I for one will CELEBRATE when their troughing comes to an end

twathater

Lizg re the constitution Gordon Ross indycar has been actively speaking about a new constitution being put together by Dr Mark McNaught and being looked at by Mjke Russel next week , they are also speaking about a new blockchain voting system being put forward by an Australian company Horizon something .

I strongly agree that there should be citizen representation on these things and according to Gordon Ross that is the reason for blockchain to enable people to have a say , apparently the draft constitution was put up on faceboak for comments but not being a member I didn’t see it though I would have liked to

Liz g

twathater @ 2.42
Thanks for the info…
But…
Oh well if its that indy car guy’s version of a Constitution that this Dr Mc Naught is promoting… Can t say that I’m all that impressed.
It sounds to me like a wish list!
We need a serious document that lets a government govern..
That version tries to cover “everything”, and badly. .
While it sounds good in principle,in practice… Not so much.
EG.. Everyone has the Constitutional right to a home.
Great…
Till Scotland votes in a shit Government (we’re bound to).
So .. To meet the “requirements” of the Constitution this shit Government doesn’t -feel- the need to build new houses,but rather it decides to redistribute the population.
Can you see the problem?
Well, we might all see it,but if the (shitty) government can demonstrate to the Court’s that this is indeed in accordance with the Scottish Constitution… Then… There’s not a bloody thing we can do about it.

We have to be very careful of the unintended consequences of putting requirements into our Constitution…and as far as I can see the one that the indy car guy promotes just doesn’t!
We need a document that binds the Government only where it has to,but is very clear on those bounds!

Cactus

J.K. Howling wae laughter hahaha, whit a puddin’.

Mornin’ geeo, did you call out a groovy round and down on the corner tune earlier on there… don’t mind if aye do bro: 🙂

link to youtube.com
(23,234,335 present personal viewings)

Dedication furra leg up:

link to youtube.com

link to howmanydaystill.com
link to crowdfunder.co.uk

Believe in iAye.

Cactus

A Lovely marnin’ to ye Liz, ain’t it SO exciting!!!

Indy is just around the corner.

Fucking Yes! X

Liz g

Further to me @ 3.16
And in no way aimed at twathater..
Imagine that Scotland wrote it’s Constitution in the late 40s.
At that point in time it would have been reasonable to say that.. Every house in Scotland is entitled to 1 bag of coal a week….
From that day till this,like it or not,regardless of cost or logistics… Lest they be sued, right here right now you are getting a bag of coal every week!!!

How stupid would that be.. So, ergo,we can’t put thing’s like that in Scotland’s Constitution

Liz g

Mornin Cactus
Its too tru
Fuck me!!!
I can’t wait to get campaigning 🙂

Cactus

Exactly, a new bagful of Yes energy every week and more Liz mwah!

In Scotland’s New Constitution aye would like to propose FREE upper-body massage booths throughout our cities and towns…

Just like the set up they have in them nail and scary eyebrow bars, at a ratio based on outlet density, like for like compare with Greggs on the corner of Freedom Square ’19.

And if ye need further lower body massage, you can go downstairs… but there’s an additional charge. 😉

1/99…

North chiel

“Liz g @ 0144”, I suppose your proposition could be construed as “ our people’s sovereignty backstop” ??

Liz g

North chiel @ 3.42
I suppose ye could… But I’d like a phrase much more grand and pompous for it!
Because it would be symbolic of Scotland being unable to be conned again … Even so, as long as it’s in the Constitution,I’ll leave it to better minds than mine to call it what they will 🙂
……………………….
Cactus @ 3.42
Whit can ah say Cactus…
While we’ve aw been slumming it…
Our Constitution his tae be better than that…
The Westend basements at least….??

twathater

I agree with what you are saying Lizg , unfortunately as I said I haven’t seen the draft ,but I would look forward to a block chain that would enable folks to have an input , also as you said the constitution should not be influenced by the establishment we have had over 300 years of that pish . Also any and ALL public utilities must be enshrined in law in perpetuity to remain in public ownership eg water , power , energy , SNHS and others

Cactus

Here’s what could happen doonstairs in the dung…:

link to youtube.com

“Fly fishing” by J.K. Fartley

Cactus

THIS is excellent!

Scotland NOW has…

1) 24/7 Wings Over Scotland 2019
2) 24/7 Indy Live Radio 2019
3) 24/7 2019

Something amazing is about to happen 2019.

Something beautiful.

Something bonnie.

Something…

Scotland.

Cactus

From one previous master back to the future:
link to wingsoverscotland.com

Compare and contrastus.

LOVE it!

Cactus

Maybe it must be a February kinda fing, TuneIN next year to see if J.K. Fouling scores ee’s hat trick in 2020 (The Year 2020 written looks SO futuristic btw.)

That is, if he and the rest of em are still there.

Labour could be gone.
link to indylive.radio

Cactus

Good Morning Excellent Indy Live Radio ~

Aye hereby claim listener X of 100 right NOW!

Whom will claim 2,3,4… of the Indy Live Radio one hundred?

Gauntlet doon, Lemmy see ye.
link to howmanydaystill.com
link to crowdfunder.co.uk

link to indylive.radio

Cactus

Here Liz, we were at the Kings Theatre last night a seeing “My Fair Lady” by PMOS, that’s the (Paisley Musical and Operatic Society)

Fucking excellent solos / harmonies like, loadsa white-tops and a constant cool ‘stage mist’ a blowin’ over tae port frae starboard. Excellently cast Lovelies mwah x.

Fucking excellent Scotland 2019.

Cactus

Agg-ag-ag-ag-ag-ag-agg-agg.

“It’s almost half past noon timesckives Olive”:
link to youtube.com

It’s good to laugh! 🙂 😉 🙂 😉 😉

yesindyref2

When I was working in Germany and learning German, I made the mistake to start with of using an Americanised English to German dictionary (Langenscheidts I think) and got some strange looks, whereas using Collins (Glasgow mostly), people nodded their heads and understood me. Two peoples separated by a common language being only noticeably different when translated into another language.

Wouldn’t it be funny if Sturgeon had put her speech together so that using the French version of Langenscheidts to translate into French it gave a different meaning, which we could see using Collins to translate back?

So for instance something like

“We would like to see Scotland remain in the EU and be free of Brexit” translated back to:

“Brexit? Long Live the Revolution!”

yesindyref2

(visions of GCHQ computers working flat out using different translating algorithms, let’s try into French then German and back to Englsih. Italian to Dutch to French to English. Try Polish, anyone got a Scots to Gaelic? …)

I’m off to my pit.

Corrado Mella

As sad as it might be, Mr Kelly is one of many dimwits living amongst us.

They have serious issues, including a very, very low IQ.

And they have a vote.

Bugger.

Nana

Once you’ve watched that , watch Mr Russell compare Tomkins to a character from the new @Stan_And_Ollie movie… “Like in those slap-stick movies, Mr Tomkins runs straight into a wall..” to much laughter in the chamber.
link to twitter.com

link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com

link to helensburghsnp.scot

Joanna says
Today I demanded to know why, when the Solicitor General refuses to give a “running commentary” to MPs on the #backstop discussions with #EU, the Attorney General is happy to give a speech about it outside
video
link to twitter.com

Nana

link to eventbrite.co.uk

Dr Philippa says
Today I asked the UK Health Secretary whether Pharmacists will be expected to take legal responsibility for giving a different drug to patients under the Serious Shortages Protocol. Currently, the responsibility lies with the GP yet, under the SSP, Pharmacists could be allowed to change a prescription without consultating the GP.
video
link to facebook.com

Podcast
link to lesleyriddoch.com

link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk

Nana

Watch the three videos in this thread:
link to twitter.com

link to bloomberg.com

link to thepeoplesnewsonline.co.uk

How British farmers have to gamble with Brexit
Use google translate
link to spiegel.de

Nana

Brexit causing ‘palpable decline’ in UK influence at the UN
link to archive.is

Forced into illegality
This should have been Ella’s year. 2019 was going to be when the 24-year-old finally got her life back on track. She’d stop being ‘undocumented’ and living in dread of immigration enforcement.
link to archive.is

link to rte.ie

White helmet fakery
link to twitter.com

Nana

Joan Ryan chair of pro-apartheid lobby group Labour Friends of Israel, has quit the Labour Party, citing a culture of “antisemitism and hatred of Israel”. Here she is discussing a £1,000,000 bribe with Shai Masod, an employee of the Israeli embassy.

This secretly filmed video, from the forthcoming Al Jazeera Investigations series “The Lobby,” shows Shai Masot, an officer at the Israeli embassy in London, discussing plans to “take down” members of the British parliament, including a government minister.
link to youtube.com

UK on course for ‘record level of child poverty’
link to archive.is

Met police spending on plastic bullets triples in a year
link to archive.is

link to eureporter.co

jezza

Nana

Do Twitter videos only work if you are signed up to Twitter???

Because when I go into one of your Titter links all I see is a picture,,,no video.

Thanks

Nana

@jezza

I have checked on both my computers and all twitter and facebook videos are working fine.

On some twitter videos you do have to click in order for the video to actually begin, others start right away.

I don’t know why you are unable to view. You do not have to sign up to twitter.

Macart

@Nana

Mike Russell didn’t miss and the wall in either vid.

The Tories dropped everyone into this mincer and NO amount of whitewashing or misdirection can ever alter that FACT. TBF, Labour haven’t helped much and the LIbdems paved the way for the Tories some time ago.

How and ever, when people wonder how they’re going to pay their bills, keep a roof over their head or even eat? It was Conservative idiocy, their ignorance, their arrogance and their greed that placed them in such a position. THIS is what happens when you give away your right to hold a government of your choice to account and hand it to another who will vote in a government of their choice.

Just to be crystal clear? Better Togetherness was a slogan for these people. It was a serving suggestion and self evidently not a statement of fact or intent.

Just sayin’.

jezza

Ok Nana

But for some reason I am only getting a picture

Nana

Morning Macart,
I love how Mike Russell calmly tells Tompkins the actual truth of the situation we find ourselves and who is to blame. My goodness Tompkins doesn’t like it, he looks like a wee boy being scolded for being naughty.

As Mike Russell says “he gets up and walks right into the wall”

Nana

@jezza
Perhaps it’s a blocker of some sort you have installed on your computer?

Go to google, try copying and pasting this

link to twitter.com

Nana

Nicolas Watts says

I reported last night on Newsnight: strong rumours that Sarah Woolaston, Anna Soubry and Heidi Allen would defect to the Independent Group this morning. Looking like it may happen shortly before PMQs
link to twitter.com

Nana

Some more on Jolyon Maugham’s latest

link to goodlawproject.org

link to crowdjustice.com

jfngw

I see the Tories now believe they can remove your citizenship if you are not quite ethnically pure enough, they just need to claim you are a threat to society.

With all the deaths this current UK government is claimed to be responsible for, just in the UK, the current Home Secretary should really be a bit afraid of his continued status. They have a death toll that ISIS can only dream of. Along with their, just following orders, DWP employees.

Macart

Also worth a read.

link to archive.is

James Caithness

Mike Russel was icing a talk on Brexit in St Andrews Last night. A SNP member of Cupar branch attended and posted his take of the meeting on the branch FB page.

This is his take : –

QUOTE

Went over to ST Salvator’s yesterday to hear Mike Russell’s talk on Brexit, hosted by St Andrews University for Independence, I think it is the most honest talk I have heard by any Scottish politician. It was short for the man had a train to catch, heading out on another meeting, with his counterparts, about, well whodunit you know Brexit.
As far as the negotiation between the Scottish and Westminster governments goes, it is all a waste of time, window dressing so May can stand up in the Commons as say we are listening and in conversation with the devolved parliaments, but as Russell put it, it is difficult to negotiate with someone who knows what they don’t want but not what they want, and still don’t. More so when the people you are dealing with do not have the authority to change anything (lackeys). If there are any Yessers out there who believe Nicola Sturgeon is about to call IndiRef2 anytime soon, forget it. You may have been promised a vote if Scotland was taken out of Europe against our will, but.
Russell said they were not about to go down the Catalonia road, it would have to be an agreement between the Scottish Parliament and Westminster. That is not going to happen whilst May is PM you all know her thoughts on that. You had your wee day in the sun in 2014 you lost we won, just content yourself at the back of the bus, May said she will be stepping down before the next general election, and who knows a new Leader of the Tory party in Westminster (for it looks as if Labour is heading for the wilderness) may have a more open attitude to a second independence referendum but again that could be years away, unless she calls a snap election, which seems unlikely, then again so many things that seems unlikely have happed of late. The other reason no Westminster government will grant us the opportunity of a second independence referendum, there is no pressure on them to do so, and secondly, they are not sure of winning, it was too close for comfort for them last time around.
Russell went on to say that after Brexit the Scottish government would, as far as they were able, keep Scottish laws and directives in line with the EU, (presumably to make any reapplying for membership if and when Scotland ever became independent) now that does not sound to me like a referendum anytime soon. He did say, that other countries had gained their independence without a referendum, the people simply asked for it. Under the present system where the SNP are happy to play Westminster’s game, it is hard to see a situation that would make it possible for the Scottish people to have that say. They can vote in pro-independent parties to Holyrood, but Holyrood is a paper tiger when it comes to constitutional matters. The people could vote for a one hundred per cent Westminster representation of MPs, that has gone well so far, ignored, bullied, name calling, sidelined. Seems the only alternative is a populous uprising from the grassroots, is that likely – answers on a piece of paper to ……to.

UNQUOTE

Lenny Hartley

James caithness, hanks for that, i had edited out my first response, but obviously if that is the case there is going to be a lot of unhappy bunnies about.

jezza

Nana 8.58am

When I open that link you posted Nana, all i get is a picture of Tomkins standing at his desk in the Scottish Parliament..

Strange !!!

Dave McEwan Hill

James Caithness at 9.41

That sounds very much like a very serious and clumsy misrepresentation of what Mike Russell actually said.

Breeks


James Caithness says:
20 February, 2019 at 9:41 am

“…. Seems the only alternative is a populous uprising from the grassroots, is that likely – answers on a piece of paper to ……”

… to the Emergency Application to the ECJ to clarify it judgement whether revocation of Article 50 being the sovereign prerogative of the state it applied to might facilite Scotland citing the Claim of Right and Constitutional Sovereignty of the people to unilaterally revoke Article 50 insofar as it runs contrary to the sovereign will of the people.

FFS. We are running out of time. We are in free fall, with no functioning canopy, and dangerously close to the minimum height needed to open our reserve chute.

Sovereignty = Backstop = No Brexit.

CHALLENGE IT, or damn you all.

robertknight

James Caithness…

A fair assessment of the SG’s position by your source at the meeting.

The people of Quebéc waited 15 years between referendums. The people of Scotland with likely wait a similar interval…

10 years outside the EU and at the mercy of Blue and/or Red Tories at Westminster will undoubtedly concentrate the minds of a fair few Nawbags of 2014 – a certain number of which will also have shuffled off their mortal coil by 2029.

A case of keeping one’s powder dry by the sounds of it.

Robert J. Sutherland

Liz g @ 00:38,

Oh, I wasn’t referring specifically to you, Liz, just making a general observation.

Re the constitution, your example @ 03:31 is excellent in illustrating how well-intentioned but mistaken thinking can go wrong. A constitution is about universal principles, not policies.

In the case of constitutions, less is definitely more.

One of whose most overlooked yet most important consequences is that everyone knows and understands their fundamental rights, they don’t need the intercession of “an island of lawyers” to interpret volumes of fine print.

Capella

Craig Murray with an article shedding light on the Gang of Eight.

link to craigmurray.org.uk

Nana

@Capella

Craig commented on the Guardian article and hey presto it was removed
link to twitter.com

Robert Peffers

O/T:

The below quote is from Nicola’s Paris speech and should be read well by those who have been constantly harping against the FM, The SG and the SNP. The insistence and number of attacks by so many cause doubts about the commenters object and commitment to Scottish Independence this, almost unnoticed, extract is significant and needs to be highlighted:-

“And finally, we proposed that when there is greater clarity about the terms of Brexit, Scotland must have the option to choose a different course, by opting to become an independent country. I will say more about independence at a future date.”

That is a clear statement of intent by the First Minister of Scotland, Leader of the SG and SNP and is made to the World during a speech covered by the World’s TV, Radio and print media. It is a clear and precise commitment to Scottish Independence and clearly states that commitment is delayed due to lack of any clear settlement of the idiotically named, “Brexit”, conundrum.

What that statement does is tell the World that the FM/SG/SNP are firmly committed to Scottish Independence and that the commitment is affected by, but not dependent upon, The United Kingdom Government’s shambolic attempts to take Scotland out of the European Union against the expressed will of a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland.

Marcia

Is a bit embarrassing for a Charted Accountant to not know that gross income less personal allowances and then deduct reliefs is then the amount that is be subject to tax.

Scot Finlayson

Scottish Questions before PMQ`s,

British Unionist Ian Murray to ask Mundell why everything is sh#t in Scotland under SNP,

British Unionist Kirstene Hair to pump her wee fists and ask Mundell why everything is sh#t is Scotland under SNP,

British Unionist Jo Swinson with her ever changing English/Scottish/Welsh,posh accent asking Mundell why everything is sh#t in Scotland under SNP,

same sh#t different day in the twisted world of Westminster.

Robert Peffers

@Dr Jim says: 20 February, 2019 at 1:27 am:

” … I guess she says a lot in private though, to the right people.”

She also says a lot, in a few words, within her engagements that get World coverage but are not properly reported by the Westminster Establishment funded/controlled media.

I highlight this little snippet at 10:18 am on this thread. It comes from Nicola’s Speech in Paris:-

“And finally, we proposed that when there is greater clarity about the terms of Brexit, Scotland must have the option to choose a different course, by opting to become an independent country.
I will say more about independence at a future date.”

She could not be clearer about the FM/SG/SNP commitment to going for independence when the time is right.

mike cassidy

James Caithness 9.41

Can we start with a link to that, please.

Cos its only a month since Mike Russell was saying this.

link to archive.is

Socrates MacSporran

Marcia @ 10.29am

As a couple of us demonstrated, further up this thread, last night: James Kelly is not, and never has been, “a Chartered Accountant.”

He appears to have a lesser accountancy qualification, but, he is not a member of ICAS (the Institute of Chartered Accountants, Scotland) – the professional body which has oversight of properly-qualified accountants in Scotland who are entitled to describe themselves as a: “Chartered Accountant.”

However, I am sure the lesser body through which he qualified would be equally mortified to discover his lack of knowledge of tax law and its application.

Cubby

James Caithness @9.41 am

You quote from someone but do not say who. Why?

How is this any different from the Britnat media and their “critics say”.

P.S. Scotland is not Catalonia.

yesindyref2

I put something about this on the previous thread, but this from Nana is interesting and direcly relevant

Brexit causing ‘palpable decline’ in UK influence at the UN
link to archive.is

compare that to this from Henry Jackson which is doing the rounds because it puts the UK seoond in “Geopolitical capability”. That’s based on a range of things including military, and it seems some silly comments are going around about the military.

link to henryjacksonsociety.org

But they miss the point about Brexit, and that’s made by that first article about the diplomats rating the UK’s influence as waning already because of Brexit.

The thing about military capability by the way is that while in a lot of ways the UK might and still might be second in the world, no country is an island, military capability is interconnected.

For instance, in normal NATO or UN operation, the carriers would be escorted not just by Royal Navy escorts but also by other NATO members warships, or even UN members not members of NATO. Replenishmensts might be by the UK’s Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships – or by any other country inclduing the US. You see this even on Joint Warrior exercises. If there’s any corresponding waning in the military sphere of influence, the UK’s military which could become more standalone is just not as effective – and therefore drops in itself from 2nd position.

The UK is making an ass of itself on the world stage, not just the EU one. It might have been 2nd in goepolitical capability not considering Brexit, but that is going to decrease – and is already, according to that report by the UK branch of the United Nations Association.

yesindyref2

Wrong bloody Henry Jackson Society link, sorry, that’s the 2017 one NOT the 2019 one. ‘Yrtis

link to henryjacksonsociety.org

Sarah

@DMH, Cubby and others: I was at an SNP meeting this week with an MSP – I got the same impression as James Caithness’s friend. And Wee Ginger Dug’s article in yesterday’s National shows that he is unhappy with what seems to be the Scot Gov line. I share his feelings.

Scot Finlayson

A concern troll is a person who participates in a debate posing as an actual or potential ally who simply has some concerns they need answered before they will ally themselves with a cause. In reality they are a critic.

Robert J. Sutherland

Robert Peffers @ 10:18:Fine words indeed, RP, and what fills us with hope and keeps us hanging on, if somewhat impatiently at times, to see the day when they are turned into action.

But it would help greatly if those of us of an independent-thinking disposition aren’t casually labelled as enemies to be disparaged for deviating even a millimetre from some self-imagined Party Line. We are on the same side, not devious trolls; the real ones are not hard to distinguish.

It would also help if we didn’t keep getting contrary hints, as recently upthread for example, that some senior SNP figures are rather lukewarm and unclear about any kind of proactive action any time soon. It may be deliberate misdirection, but it does grate.

The unique opportunity provided by this current feebleness of the UK state should not be lost for lack of thought or gumption, or it won’t be forgiven.

Nana

Soubry says
It is with a heavy heart I have today resigned from the Conservative Party.

link to twitter.com

Nana
mike cassidy

Sarah 10.59

James Caithness posted with no id or link.

No way is the sort of claim made in his post going to be ‘accepted’ without at least clearing the first WOS hurdle.

As with yourself.

What meeting?

Where and when?

Which MSP?

Robert Peffers

@Liz g says: 20 February, 2019 at 3:16 am:

” … There’s not a bloody thing we can do about it.”

Well yes there is, Liz g. What’s more it was partly done in 1320 by the Declaration of Arbroath that stated and was accepted by the then international authority and is enshrined in Scots law until this very day.

By the still extant, independent, Scottish Rule of Law, the people of Scotland are legally sovereign. That means, legally, if the people don’t like what their , “monarchy”, is doing they have the legal right to , “Drive Him/her out”.

Thing is there is presently no legal mechanism for the people of Scotland’s wishes to be carried out. This is directly due to the union with the Kingdom of England and the Union parliament use of English Law while ignoring Scots law.

All that needs to be done is for a clause to be added that sets up a mechanism for the people to recall a government trying to force unpopular things upon the people. Something like an open petition to call for a Scottish General Election with a set percentage of the people’s signatures.

An always open reminder to those elected to office that they are the servants and the people are the masters with the power to remove and replace them if they do not follow the people’s will.

The problems with Westminster is it follows English law and ignores Scots law and there is no way to remove an MP, a party or a government that acts against the best interests of the people.

Which is why, today, Westminster is against a second Brexit referendum, a second Scottish Indy referendum and why we cannot get shot of Theresa and her much divided party in government.
Scots law has it covered – excepting for a mechanism to recall an elected person that is a total waste of time and space and to elect another in their place.

The problem being that once elected these people believe they are the masters and the electorate are the slaves. The legal position being that the people, being legally sovereign, are the masters but the people have no way to sack an unwanted elected person who the majority want rid of.

yesindyref2

@RJS
Anyone who’s read Mike Russell in for instance The National or seen him on TV would laugh at the thought of him being “lukewarm”. The guy’s a legend. You only have to google
Mike Russell Brexit Independence
to get loads of links like one “Mike Russell said that a vote on Brexit or independence “will have to happen” and rejected the premise that the UK government would refuse permission for another poll.

Strange attempt to try to discredit Russell – they’s shiting themselves.

sinky

Three Tory MPs have joined the Labour 8 to make 11 in “new party”.

Now if this group gets 36 MPs they will replace the SNP as third force at Westminster and get two questions to PM etc plus loads of Short Money to fund them.

However it makes a mockery of democracy if a new “grouping” can replace the SNP at HoC despite no member of public ever voting for the new “party”.

Even with 11, expect them to get plenty of BBC Question Time appearances compared to the SNP.

Peter McCulloch

When the British nationalists claim to all and sundry that Scottish education is failing under the Scottish Government.

I do wonder if they ever take a look at standard of education which is displayed by their own members who
are sitting in parliament, such as Cole Hamilton or James Kelly etc?

ronnie anderson

I hear footsteps slowly walking as they gently walk across they floor, mair feking distraction on the road tae the cliffs

robertknight

Of course they’ll get BBC QT slots…

London’s Metropolitan Police was rightly identified as being “Institutionally Racist” – any fair examination of the BBC would find that it is ‘Institutionally Unionist’.

Sarah

@mikecassidy: a certain amount of discretion is needed on an open site. And I don’t want to dishearten Yessers. But Paul Kavanagh’s article in The National is in the public domain and worth reading IMHO.

My local paper is carrying an Indyposter paid for by me this week [the Scotland assets one – water, fish, renewables etc] as I think we all need to increase our efforts [where possible] and raise the profile of the case for Scotland being able and needing to take back control.

yesindyref2

Mmm, I think the only time you’d find Mike Russell “lukewarm” is if he went skiing in the 30 degree below Arctic in a blizzard wearing only jeans and a T-shirt, and even then I’d hae ma doots.

Fergus Green

3 Tories have left the Tory Party to join 8 Tories who left the Labour Party, to form yet another Tory Party.

Dr Jim

If folk are not happy with the SNP over Independence the time to girn about it is if they don’t deliver it, not if you Think! they possibly maybe might not I’m not sure don’t deliver it

So far the FM has not deviated from her script “When the terms of Brexit become clearer” and we all know what that means and I won’t insult anybody’s intelligence by laying out all the scenarios that can alter that future

In the next few weeks the FM will make her statement when there is no turning back from the UKs position, if she doesn’t say what people are hoping for and it doesn’t suit the timetable of peoples hopes then I’m absolutely sure she knows full well the implications of that decision

If the FM makes the *wrong* statement on Independence two things are likely to happen, Independence supporters might lose heart and leave the party
Supporters of the Union will celebrate and gain heart making future efforts on Independence even harder

I have a strong feeling the FM knows all the ramifications and the numbers surrounding them

What’s a few weeks when it’s been 300 years, give her a chance to do what we hope is the right thing and not worry about if it’s the wrong thing (in your point of view) until she does it

yesindyref2

@sinky “Now if this group gets 36 MPs they will replace the SNP as third force at Westminster and get two questions to PM etc plus loads of Short Money to fund them.

Tom Gordon asked the House of Commons and they say short money is allocated on General Election results, NOT during the parliamentary term. So they get no short money, none at all. As for them replacing the SNP as third party I doubt it for the same reason, but haven’t seen any confirmation of that so far.

Graf Midgehunter

That does not sound at all like Mike Russel, in fact it sounds to me more like someone posing as an SNP member and trying to sell a negative storyline.

“Under the present system where the SNP are happy to play Westminster’s game, it is hard to see a situation that would make it possible for the Scottish people to have that say. They can vote in pro-independent parties to Holyrood, but Holyrood is a paper tiger when it comes to constitutional matters. ”

It’s very suspicious IMO.

Sarah

Further to Robert P’s latest comment above, where he mentions a petition – that reminded me that the MSP pointed out the mechanism available to us all is to petition Holyrood about any matter that concerns us.

Unlike Westminster, there is no numbers of signatures hurdle to cross.

Apparently these petitions are effective.

So how about it? If Scot Gov is waiting for a sign of the popular will then we can do a petition to Holyrood.

Graf Midgehunter

Sorry, my post was a reply to:

James Caithness at 9.41

Dr Jim

@Yesindyref2

At the moment in the HOC we have Tory Labour Lib Dem DUP all anti Scottish parties, if there’s another party forming that’ll be 5 anti Scottish parties in the HOC no matter what size of party they are

It’s been hard enough fighting 4 to 1 odds let alone having another lot of them to make it 5 to 1 because we know what that means for us even if we after some mentalness from the Scottish electorate DON’T vote for Independence, less Scottish representation on committees and the like and God forbid if there turns out to be more of them than us in this new found 5th party Scotland will be virtually silent in the HOC

And that’s not even counting the bloody HOL

yesindyref2

Okey-doke, via Tom Gordon’s article and the “Members Estimate Committee”, this:

link to researchbriefings.parliament.uk

Short Money is made available to all opposition parties in the House of Commons that secured either two seats, or one seat and more than 150,000 votes, at the previous General Election.

Did look but can’t find anything about whether the PMQs is on the same basis “at the previous General Election”.

Robert J. Sutherland

yesindyref2 @ 11:36,

Apart from the non-trivial question of numbers, the breakaway group could surely only become “third-largest party” in HoC if they were actually formally a party. Currently at least they are not.

(Incidentally, I welcome your previous comments on Mike Russell. It’s more a feeling, which I know is shared by many, that in general re Brexit there has been rather too much public emphasis on mitigation rather than anything stronger. Even if that is all part of the art of winning the necessary converts.

Be that as it may, Nicola’s statements have always been nothing but steadfastly encouraging.)

yesindyref2

@Dr Jim
I don’t think even if they got 100 members they’d get any standing in the House of Commons except as Independents, as they didn;t fight an election as a group. I’ve seen that opinion the lsat day or two, but it isn’t an authorative opinion yet as far as I know.

Makes sense though, as otherwise if you had say 4 parties with just 10 members each they could call themselves a “group” and fiddle the system, but the electorate did NOT vote for them as a group, so it would be improper, totally improper.

geeo

I hope everyone caught that on ‘English MP’s Questions about Scottish affairs’, comically known as “Scottish Questions” just now.

In response to the ridiculous as always, Kirstene Hair, the Treasury spokesman just CONFIRMED that:
…….

“Whisky itself represents 20% of ALL uk food and drink sales from the united kingdom”

………

Robert J. Sutherland

Dr Jim @ 11:49,

Well, there is that. One can readily imagine the BBC just lovin’ it, f’rinstance. Being “topical” and all…

yesindyref2

@RJS
I go with what Dr Jim says about it all.

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,

galamcennalath

Fergus Green says:

3 Tories have left the Tory Party to join 8 Tories who left the Labour Party, to form yet another Tory Party.

Indeed. We’ve got Red Tories, Blue Tories, Amber Tories, and even the Purple UKIP Tories.

Not many colours left for the New Tories.

Plaid Cymru and the Greens have green.

Pink or orange have connotations.

What’s the betting they will steal SNP Yellow?

mike cassidy

Sarah

I accept that Weegingerdug has arrived at the moment where he thinks the SNP are kicking the independence can down the road in a bizarre parallel to May’s action.

link to archive.is

There have been several posters on here who have thought that for a while.

And it is always pointed out that the SNP cannot do anything until Brexit is realised in whatever form that turns out to be.

Because that would be the big change of circumstance etc

The new development is the postings by James Caithness and yourself indicating that can-kicking is exactly what the SNP are doing NOW.

That’s a big claim.

And,like any big claim, requires big proof.

Because, if true, its a fecking big political gamechanger.

Note I’m not questioning your desire for independence.

Mr Caithness I’ll reserve judgement on!

Robert Peffers

@jezza says:20 February, 2019 at 8:15 am:

” … Do Twitter videos only work if you are signed up to Twitter???
Because when I go into one of your Titter links all I see is a picture,,,no video.”

It should load if you click on the picture.

admiral

“At the moment in the HOC we have Tory Labour Lib Dem DUP all anti Scottish parties, if there’s another party forming that’ll be 5 anti Scottish parties in the HOC no matter what size of party they are”

Dr Jim – I count Caroline Lucas of the Greens as anti Scottish. She has never supported the idea of Scottish independence.

Anyway, they are all either blue, red, yellow or green Tories.

Dr Jim

Yesindyref2

When did *improper* ever stop the English parliament from making itself *proper* We know what they are and what they think their duty to themselves is

Just days ago Jack McConnell referred to Scotland as a territory and proposed a council of ministers to run Scotland, with him in it along with people like Helen Liddle and Michael Moore, y’know experienced people he said

These are people it took us forever to get rid of now they want to sneak themselves back in again

Ghillie

Robert Peffers @ 10.18 am

Beautifully said =)

Clear as crystal.

Our First Minister, our Nicole, our Scottish Government, our SNP telling the World that Scotland MUST have the option to choose Independence 🙂

yesindyref2

@Admiral
Mixed bag.
“Caroline Lucas voted against giving Scotland full responsibility for taxation and spending in Scotland.”

but

“Caroline Lucas voted to give the Scottish Parliament the power to call a referendum on Scottish independence. ”

link to theyworkforyou.com

Petra

Thanks for the links Nana. Gove doing another U-turn? He, his boss and the rest of the Westminster cabal of liars should be strung up along with the well paid Unionist crew sitting on their erses at Holyrood.

link to helensburghsnp.scot
…………………

I see that the 11 “independents” are sitting behind the SNP in the Commons. Lucky them …. NOT. Someone mentioned that they may become the third party, however I read somewhere that they’re not considered to be a “party” at all … yet.

…………………

On the subject of Constitutions I see that the Irish Constitution has been amended 35 times since 1937.

link to en.m.wikipedia.org

……………….

Iain Blackford at PMQ’s – resume:-

“Westminster is broken. The Tories and Labour are imploding. 100,000 jobs in Scotland are under threat. If you don’t act Prime Minister Scotland will.”

yesindyref2

@Dr Jim
Jack McConnel’s ambition was to be a stand-up comedian but he missed and became a sit down politician instead and actually succeeded in becoming a genuine comedian, albeit unaware of his natural talent. Frankie Boyle eat your heart out!

CameronB Brodie

Serious question – has anyone been able to pinpoint the legal source of the Prime-minister’s power to change the legal personality of Scotland’s resident population?

Dr Jim

There’s no can kicking going on by the SNP

They’re saying and doing exactly what they said they would do

The folk who claim this can kicking is going on I believe are just anxious the same as the rest of us but they’re projecting what they DON’T want to happen before it does happen

When you break down the waiting time of 5 weeks to go MPs only work 5 days a week and even if they are in the Commons 10 hours a day it’s like around 250 hours to go

That doesn’t seem so long now does it…… (figures rough estimates)

geeo

Ian Blackford on Treeza’s inaction over ‘ukexit’.

“If the Prime Minister will not do something about it, SCOTLAND WILL” !!

treeza’s response ?

“Snp bad”.

She either knows whats coming, and trying to pretend otherwise in public, or is just wilfully thick.

That was the clearest, most unambiguous declaration that Scotsgov are about to unleash some pretty decisive action.

Anyone watching Mr Blackford who thinks that there is no SNP/Scotsgov plan, and a decisive plan at that, then i would gently suggest they are on something.

galamcennalath

IndyRef2?

i) I sense the SNP are preparing. There has been a strong consistent message recently that Scotland must not be dragged out of the EU and we should have the opportunity to choose our own future. I still have faith in the SNP leadership.

ii) There has to be some more clarity about Brexit. Right now anything from cancellation through to a suicidal cliff jump are possible outcomes.

iii) However, I believe WGD has set the right tone. The YES movement does not have infinite faith nor patience. We sit around 50% backing for Indy despite very little campaigning. We are in a strong position and the opportunity must be capitalised on soon.

In my mind, I see the situation as a timing balance between sufficient clarity on the UK’s future versus firing the starting pistol on the campaign to choose Scotland’s.

There may not be full Brexit clarity for a long time, launching Scotland’s Choice MUST come long before FULL Brexit clarity.

Giving Goose

CameronB Brodie

What is the context of your question? What has happened?

Dr Jim

Yesindyref2

There’s a HOC committee taking evidence on Jack McConnells proposals chaired by Pete Wishart, I watched it, it was a nightmare before all the Christmasses put together, Helen Liddle actually got away with saying it was much better under a Labour administration because they co-operated better but the SNP don’t co-operate, Y’see that’s why I could never be a politician I couldn’t prevent myself crawling over the top of the tables reaching for their throats

They are seriously treating this as a thing as a way of subverting the SNP

galamcennalath

Me @ 12:37

Scotland’s Choice seems not a bad slogan for IndyRef2 when I see it 🙂

CameronB Brodie

Giving Goose
Parliamentary sovereignty was removed from British constitutional law in 1991, though it still appears to be in effect. That’s my reading of it anyway but I’m not a lawyer.

Brian Powell

Petra

They would need to stand in an election on a manifesto after registering as a party to be considered a party.

James Caithness

Dave McEwan Hill says:
20 February, 2019 at 10:00 am
James Caithness at 9.41

That sounds very much like a very serious and clumsy misrepresentation of what Mike Russell actually said.
================================================

I am glad to hear what you say Dave. I hope your interpretation is correct. However I heard Mike Russell when he gave a talk in Cupar Bowling Club mid-2018 and he said much the same as my source said last night. If you were there Dave I’d like to read what your thoughts were.

Cubby

The only disappointing thing about Blackfords comments at PMQs today is that he didn’t call her a liar again. Is it mandatory for her to lie every time speaks.

CameronB Brodie

“Conceal your dispositions, and your condition will remain secret, which leads to victory; show your dispositions, and your condition will become patent, which leads to defeat.” – Sun Tzu

cearc

The wee bit of the house of commons seats for the third party and others must be getting awfie crowded.

Scott

Sorry O/T PMQs in the chair is Nick ( he did not answer) Robinson what a bloody disgrace a right Tory twat going on at the Lab about the Jews but never a mention about the anti Muslim in the tory ranks.
Not a Lab fan but he did not need all that from NR.

Dorothy Devine

Wouldn’t it be funny if ten or eleven tories defected – where would that leave Mrs May?

Tatu3

“We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as (my bold) Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.”

Yes Brexit is a big change in circumstance, but the above quote says “such as” it doesn’t say it has to be only because of brexit! and after the past two and a half years of Scotland and the Scottish government being ignored I would say that could be considered a pretty big change in circumstance.

Cubby

I read the Wee Ginger Dugs article in the National and what I read is him saying if Sturgeon keeps on kicking the can down the road there will be unhappy people. Seems a statement of the obvious.

However, I didn’t read him saying it was his opinion now she will not do something.

Too many people being influenced by Britnat propaganda and reading their fears into everything.

Camz

That numpty is still trying to decide whether he should sit down.

Robert J. Sutherland

With today’s 3 Tory defections, the new group is now level in numbers with the LibDems. It just takes one more to sign up and the latter are effectively toast. Maybe they should just merge on the basis of “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em”.

Ian Blackford once again very effective in the House of Follies. The only one at PMQs it seems to notice the elephant in the room.

Golfnut

@ Cameron B Brodie.

There isn’t, only Westminsters claim to Sovereignty based on the so called ‘ glorious revolution ‘.
It was interesting that the Supreme court ruling on the Continuity Bill included the opinion that westminster held unqualified sovereignty, which is clearly untrue.
The Supreme Court trashed its reputation and credibility as a non political legal entity in its handling of the Continuity Bill, an indication of just how desperate times are for the union.