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Clinging on to the lies

Posted on August 16, 2014 by

This is Conservative MSP John Scott openly lying to an audience in Ayr yesterday on BBC Radio Scotland’s “Big Debate”, on the subject of whether Scottish people would continue to have access to English hospitals (and specifically Great Ormond Street children’s hospital) in the event of independence.

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The female voice correcting him is Jeane Freeman. The truth is below.

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Jeane Freeman is wrong about one thing. She blames “Better Together” for the original lie about Great Ormond Street – exposed by this site back in May – when it fact it was their nastier low-budget tribute act “Vote No Borders”. But otherwise she’s bang on.

As is pointed out tirelessly by any healthcare body which is asked, the health services in the constituent parts of the UK are already fully independent of each other, and therefore a vote for Scottish independence would make absolutely no difference whatsoever to the cross-border arrangements they have for treating patients.

Great Ormond Street Hospital couldn’t have been much clearer. NHS Blood And Transplant were even more direct about it. And yet Unionist politicians like John Scott continue to doggedly tell a barefaced scaremongering lie which has been unequivocally and unambiguously denied, on the record, by every healthcare organisation in the UK.

We hate repeating ourselves. But every time they do, we’ll point it out again.

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    1. 16 08 14 13:27

      Clinging on to lies | Scottish Independence News

    117 to “Clinging on to the lies”

    1. Janine says:

      They really don’t know the difference between their own lies and the truth anymore.

    2. Morag says:

      As I said in the previous thread, I had to access NHS England yesterday. I have nothing but the highest praise for the prompt and efficient treatment I received. It was also completely seamless, and completely free.

      I assume, however, that NHS Borders is going to have to pony up some lolly to NHS London to compensate for them taking care of me while I was in their area. And I can see no reason at all why this excellent arrangement shouldn’t continue after independence.

    3. Juteman says:

      The No mob must really hate Scotland. Why else would they try to scare their own people?

    4. Doug Daniel says:

      What a lying little shit.

    5. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      I hear this on the radio yesterday. Absolutely disgusting.

    6. Alan Ritchie says:

      In fairness, if rUK loses Scotland’s oil, they wont be able to pay for Great Ormond St, and it will close…

    7. David Smith says:

      Lying purely in defence of their own self interest. Utterly beneath contempt.

    8. Brotyboy says:

      Notice the shift from ‘We will lose access to these hospitals.’ to the suggestion that current arrangements would have to be re-negotiated.

      But why would it be necessary to re-negotiate an arrangement between two organisations which are separate before Independence and which remained separate after Independence?

      Secondly, what would a re-negotiation entail? Presumably the current arrangement is based upon the cost of treatment being paid for by the patient’s home NHS. So after Independence the same cost would be paid for in the same way, or are they suggesting that the cost changes after Independence? On what basis? To profit?

      I believe that healthcare professionals are not so inclined.

    9. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      One of my great hopes is that out of the Yes campaign will come a new generation of honest politicians that will take on all these liars and cheats, defeat them at the elections, and thereby remove them from Westminster, Holyrood and our local councils – forever.

      Hope over Fear – Vote YES.

    10. Chitterinlicht says:

      Extract from Psychology Today article

      The moral of the story, if I may use that term, is that when people in positions of power lie, you not only become disaffected with them, but you become disaffected with the institutions they represent. Each time this happens, your identity and well-being takes a new hit. Identification with our jobs and our government are crucial to our self-concepts. As we lose faith in them, we lose faith in ourselves.
      From
      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201209/why-lying-hurts-so-much

      This is unfortunately what WM politiciancs want disaffected citizens who do not engage. Whatever happens let us stay engaged, be positive and do not lie to people like this idiot.

    11. BuckieBraes says:

      They lie and they lie, and they don’t care. They will do whatever it takes to secure a No victory; but, as I’ve posted before, they seem either too stupid or too arrogant to register the damage they are doing to their own cause.

      But, as the saying goes, the truth will out. It will continue to trickle out in the unthinkable event of a No victory. Once the febrile atmosphere of the referendum campaign is behind us, those who voted No due to the deceit of ‘Better Together’ will begin to realise the scale of the lies. One by one, day by day, week by week and month by month it was dawn on them.

      Far better, of course, that it should dawn on them before 18 September…

    12. Alastair says:

      Despite their apparent unassailable lead the No camp seems to be ramping up the fear factor, Why the need to do that I wonder? I think they are going for the worst possible outcome for everyone, that is the narrowest of No wins delivered by fear and intimidation, but at least they get to keep the money for a bit longer and Trident stays in the PM’s pants, sorry on the Clyde. Thoroughly divided and indisputably ruled. Now there’s scary!

    13. dennis mclaughlin says:

      Another Tory MSP’s lies ‘pwned’ in gaming parlance.

      We’re all wise to their crap now…..Vote YES.

    14. Harry McAye says:

      They really are a despicable bunch. No Thanks twitter tweeted similar yesterday.

    15. galamcennalath says:

      Personally, I’m not completely sure John Scott is actually setting to lie and deceive. I think he’s just too thick to understand how devolved responsibilities are financed and how Barnett works! Lying takes a certain minimum level of imagination and intellect.

      Who votes for these idiots?

    16. YESGUY says:

      Lies , lies and more lies.

      This was covered months ago and most folk know this by now. If anything good comes out of this it is the union uses lies and scares to cover up their own incompetence and lack of knowledge.

      Politicians who lie to the public should be charged by the police . With a new constitution in place we can sack the fools and make them answerable to us.

      Can’t believe they are still spreading this drivel. Might be time for a wee letter off to GOCH. Let them know that they are being used in anti-Scottish propaganda AGAIN.

      Makes my blood boil.

      Still not long now till we kick these arse holes out and get on with building our country.

      Great work on the Fundraiser Wingers. So proud of you all.

    17. galamcennalath says:

      PS, I think YES are hitting a good raw nerve on NHS cutbacks and privatisation.

    18. Ghengis D'Midgies says:

      The Scottish NHS has always been fully independent ~in terms of management~ but it is fully dependent on the block grant passed to us through clenched fist and with gritted teeth by Westminster. Never mind that the block grant is only a proportions of the revenues we send to London.

    19. HandandShrimp says:

      I find it next to unbelievable that Scott did not know VNB came to an embarrassing sticky end over that self same lie.

      If he did not know then he shouldn’t be participating in the debate because he clearly is not keeping abreast of what is going on…hell if he did not know then he shouldn’t be an MSP purely on grounds of competence.

      I suspect he did know and chose to try and pass that self same lie again in the hope that it would stick. If it wasn’t that I did not want to trouble the staff of a very busy hospital I would actually forward his comments to Great Ormond Street for them to deal with.

    20. Well actually, some children wouldn’t have access to those hospitals if they were born post-independence and without British citizenship.

      Currently citizenship is derived a) by being born in the UK b) by one parent having been born in the UK

      So Scots born abroad would get their citizenship from b) and any children they had in an independent Scotland would not have British citizenship. So post-independence, there would be newborns without British citizenship (and therefore access to rest-of-UK hospitals) from day one.

    21. john j says:

      He’s a liar, not only that he knows he’s a liar, and he knows that we know he’s a liar.

    22. Jim Gallacher says:

      I had the misfortune of meeting this unpleasant man at a meeting in Troon at an open meeting. He said he would prefer Trident to Jobs in his constituency. How does someone like him get elected?.
      He said if aim’ broke don’t fix it.

    23. UncleBob says:

      Scottish hospitals have agreements not only with English health care centers. In the specialist field of cancer care, the Western General Hospital in Edinburgh told me they have world wide agreements to care for each others patients. They said that they routinely treated patients from other countries.

    24. RogueCoder says:

      @CharlieMurphy
      You’re talking mince. NHS in Scotland pays NHS England for treated referred cases. Kids born today or in 5 years time will have exactly the same level of access to care in England, Wales and NI as we do today. In fact, because the NHS will be better funded in Scotland, it’s likely that they will get MORE access, more care.

    25. gerry parker says:

      @ThePNR.

      Dropped some of those LFI leaflets you gave me into my local (Whifflet) convenience store as this is a solid Labour Area.

      The rest will be going out with The Wee Blue Book.
      Many thanks.

      Jim(Farrochie) is busy in Stonehaven distribution the leaflets you kindly gave him.

    26. Hugh Wallace says:

      It should be a criminal offence for a politician to knowingly lie to the public and if they inadvertently do they should have to public recant their statement or face the same criminal penalties for knowingly lying.

    27. Geoff Huijer says:

      Thank God someone was there to point out the lies from this waste of space.

    28. goldenayr says:

      CharlieMurphy

      A wee tip.

      Just because something sounds rational,in your head,doesn’t make it so.

    29. HandandShrimp says:

      CharlieMurphy

      You are utterly wrong. Go ask Great Ormond Street directly if you do not believe us.

      The thing is if you can be so wrong about this what else are you wrong about?

    30. fred blogger says:

      some more info re nhs health and social care act.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYakMiKwoak

    31. G H Graham says:

      Breaking News: Dan Snow just finished a ‘Let’s Stay Together’ campaign outside the grounds of Cardiff’s Millenium Stadium this morning.

      It’s a bit windy there today so that perhaps explains the low turnout.

      But one of the seven that did bother to show up was Sam Warburton & he signed the petition.

      Journalists are currently trying to confirm if Sam Warburton is important.

      Source: http://dailywales.net/2014/08/16/disappointing-welsh-turnout-for-dan-snows-lets-stay-together-rally/

    32. msean says:

      Either lying or is incompetent. Really should be aware of what his party has passed in Parliament.

    33. Morag says:

      Charlie, access to the NHS has nothing to do with British citizenship and everything to do with residence and the reciprocal arrangement between NHS Scotland and the NHS in the other areas of the UK.

      I was treated in Newham Hospital yesterday not because I am a British citizen but because I could give a postcode in the UK as my place of residence and the name of a GP in Scotland with whom I am registered. I could have been a Chinese citizen, so long as I was legally resident in Scotland and registered with a Scottish GP.

      That’s what gives NHS England confidence that when they bill NHS Borders for treating me, the bill will be paid. There is no reason in the wide world why that arrangement should not continue. And every pressure that it should, so that English holidaymakers who are struck down by shingles when they’re visiting Loch Ness can also be assured of no-hassle treatment.

    34. Andy-B says:

      Well done Rev, for highlighting this despicable lie again,what does it say about Better Together and Westminster when, the repetition of a lie, has to be constantly enforced.

      Meanwhile ex-head of counter terrorism in Scotland, Alan Burnett, say a yes vote will secure police officer numbers in Scotland, whilst a no vote would see police numbers slashed in Scotland.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/no-vote-independence-put-number-4055484

      Also Australia’s PM Tony Abbot has waded into the Scottish independence debate, Abbot stated “An independent Scotland would not be in the interests of the international community.”

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/yes-vote-not-worlds-interest-4058344

      Finally Tony Blair’s Defence Secretary, Lord Reid,was in Dalkeith spouting his unionist tosh, claiming independence will see Thatcher like cuts, in Scotland. Bob Thomson former Labour chairman countered Lord Reid’s wild accusations, by saying Labour are in bed with the Tories, and deep cut would come after a no vote.

      http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/labour-peer-warns-of-thatcher-style-cuts-176399n.25047306

    35. dennis mclaughlin says:

      Stu’s No.1 Rule is DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

    36. Airdrieonian says:

      An analogy that I’ve used on my parents when trying to explain this:

      “I car share with Jimmy from work. When it’s his week to drive, I give him £10 at the end of the working week for petrol. When it’s my turn to drive he does the same. We’re both working for the same company (albeit in different jobs). Now, Jimmy leaves his job to work for the company next door. We both continue with the previous arrangement, even although our individual “funding” now comes from different places. I don’t stop giving him a lift just because he works for someone else. As long as the arrangement suits both of us, why change?”

    37. HandandShrimp says:

      Dennis

      …but he looked hungry

    38. John grant says:

      Sorry for the language folks but what a lying scummy Tory piece of dog shit

    39. goldenayr says:

      dennis McLaughlin

      Maybe that’s why their understanding is so malnourished.

    40. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      Once again people need to be reminded of Yorkhill Hospital for Sick Children and the Beatson for cancer care. Not only will be still have access to Great Ormond but we might even be able to invest in our own variants of those in London. In fact not having to go all the way to London for treatment might be preferable as far as being closer to family helps recovery. Perhaps the question to be asked is just how great an issue this is and whether it should be?

    41. Andy-B says:

      @Airdrieonian.

      True, but the arrangement doesn’t suit Westminster they want more, than just a tenner, they want all the revenue that they’re so used to getting, they’d better watch out though, or we might just tell them to get the bus next time.

    42. David Stevenson says:

      Scott and the rest of the BT liars have some brass neck. Blatantly lying on national radio when faced with opponents who will call them out. At least Gordon Brewer (?) put him on the spot, so likely knew he was lying.

    43. KenMacColl says:

      Doug Daniel at 1.18 today.
      I don’t think that Scott is little. We must be accurate.

    44. Ealasaid says:

      @CharlieMurphy
      You miss the point. As stated by GOSH above, “GOSH already has reciprocal healthcare arrangements with numerous countries”. It is nothing to do with British citizenship. The healthcare provider in another country has a reciprocal arrangement to pay for healthcare provided by GOSH, and as indicated above this happens for countries all over Europe and probably beyond. Eligibility for treatment there depends on what arrangements are in place for your country. Being British is not what it is about.

    45. SquareHaggis says:

      Follow the money…

      Big £££’s being quietly syphoned off by pill pushers charging up to x10 the retail price for “specials” (non generic drugs). The prescriptions may be free but the NHS still has to meet these charges from it’s declining funds.

      A friend of mine was prescribed a special thyroxin drug which she was told cost £50 per dispensation. This is a life-long drug @ 100 per quarter. 50p each and hardly a burden on the finances.
      After several years using this drug it was suddenly stopped.
      When she dug a little into this issue she discovered that the chemist had been getting paid £500 a time, not £50.
      She contacted NHS prescription fraud dept in Livingston to be told they were aware this was happening but there was only one investigating officer for the whole of Scotland, nothing was done.

      After several months of deteriorating health and much passing of the buck she eventually managed to persuade her GP to reinstate her treatment, nonetheless she wasn’t compensated and all was quietly swept under the carpet.

    46. Brian McHugh says:

      Jeane Freeman destroyed gutter lies with simple truth.

      They should be utterly ashamed of their sinister deceipt… but sadly, they have no moral compass.

    47. Adrian B says:

      @ CharlieMurphy,

      Well actually, some children wouldn’t have access to those hospitals if they were born post-independence and without British citizenship.

      Currently citizenship is derived a) by being born in the UK b) by one parent having been born in the UK

      Are you suggesting that people born outside of the UK do not get treated if they have been involved in a road traffic accident in England? The Welsh and N.Irish are in trouble now.

      You have some strange twisted logic that bears no resemblance to how any health provider works in the British Isles.

    48. tartanfever says:

      So according to our unionist friend and poster, Charlie Murphy, and his comments above.

      You have to be a British Citizen born in Britain to be able to get access to the NHS.

      I can think of millions of Asian, Caribbean, African and European immigrants who were not born in the UK and do have access to the NHS that would not only disagree with you, would also call you a racist.

      The disappointing thing is not only the Conservative twat, is the slightly lazy Gordon Brewer who no doubt knows this guy’s talking mince and should have questioned much more robustly than he did.

    49. Roughian says:

      When you make a speech, you tell the audience what you’re going to say, you say it, then you tell them what you said. Don’t give up you Wingers keep repeating the message until the undecided GET IT. Keep banging the drum.

    50. Fiona says:

      Doesn’t know/ telling lies? Neither, IMO

      There is a “third way” and unsurprisingly the master of that was one Tony Blair. They are the bullshitters, as defined by Harry Frankfurt. Bullshit is related to lies but not identical with them

      Bullshit is commonly used to describe statements made by people more concerned with the response of the audience than in truth and accuracy,

      The liar, Frankfurt holds, knows and cares about the truth, but deliberately sets out to mislead instead of telling the truth. The “bullshitter”, on the other hand, does not care about the truth and is only seeking to impress

      It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction. A person who lies is thereby responding to the truth, and he is to that extent respectful of it. When an honest man speaks, he says only what he believes to be true; and for the liar, it is correspondingly indispensable that he considers his statements to be false. For the bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says. He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.

      That is what the unionists are all about. It is the vice of most modern politicians. They are, quite literally, strangers to the importance of truth

    51. MoJo says:

      English and Wales residents also benefit reciprocally from our world class health care in Scotland – still waiting to here a mainstream media point this out – when the BT lot trot out their poisonous lies designed to scare the vulnerable…

    52. Holebender says:

      Sorry OT, but tenuously connected.

      Did you know that Scottish author J.M.Barrie gifted the royalties from his literary creation Peter Pan to Great Ormond Street Hospital in perpetuity? I don’t think GOSH will quibble over money when a Scottish child needs their expertise.

    53. dennis mclaughlin says:

      well put Fiona.

      IF ONLY we’d had the World Wide Web back in ’79 we wouldnae be the “too poor,too stupid wee country” we’ve all lived in since.

      Internet access to the TRUTH has been the biggest game-changer of this Referendum.

    54. heedtracker says:

      If this kind of crap does succeed they are going to have a hell of job shutting down Scottish independence. Westminster trundles along taking the electorate for mugs but this is not a general election and lying about the uk to Scotland’s been their biggest mistake.

    55. Jack Murphy says:

      Sounds as if Bettertogether people are begining to believe their own lies.

    56. Murray McCallum says:

      I’ve heard Jeane Freeman in a few debates now and on the TV. I think she’s great and enjoyed her correcting the lying little toad in the recording.

    57. Fiona says:

      @ Jack Murphy

      They do not believe them: they do not disbelieve them.

      They believe that the audience may believe them. That is all that matters

    58. Jim Thomson says:

      @Jim Gallacher 2:06

      Here’s the video of John Scott’s wee speech in Troon:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC2XQ9X7smc

      Here’s the one immediately afterwards from Robin McAlpine which includes the last 40 seconds or so of JS’s contribution to set the context for Robin’s opening remarks – priceless!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kktV6Hp7Pw8

    59. Mary Bruce says:

      I attended a conference recently held by a medical trust that offers support to patients with a degenerative brain condition.

      The trust employs two nurses, one who works with patients in the southern half of England and the other who works with patients in the north of England, Scotland and both the north and south of Ireland.

      The fact that Ireland is a separate country makes no difference whatsoever to the level of care offered to patients there. The nurse moves around freely and they have no plans to change anything if Scotland votes yes.

      A significant amount of their funding comes from Scotland, they won’t be wanting to give that up either.

    60. Indy_Scot says:

      Lies and fear are all they’ve got.

    61. heedtracker says:

      I still think the Australian PM hitting us with this and what vote no or else Guardian say is “joined” with Obama’s view, takes the UKOK biscuit today anyway-

      “I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, not the friends of freedom, and that the countries that would cheer at the prospect of the break-up with the United Kingdom are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.”

      It’s very weird how voting Yes for Scottish democracy in September makes you not the friend of freedom and or justice. If I was an Australian I’d be very worried about having one more maniac in power.

      It’s not a winning formula OZ!

    62. heedtracker says:

      Speaking of maniacs, here’s what my Slovene girlfriend Graun CiF’s all the way from west end Glasgow with a song in his heart and whatever Slovene is for niceness.

      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public

      “So it is arrogant beyond belief that the Scottish government and Yes supporters repeatedly react with such hostility to any comments from the international community, when iScotland expects to become a member of this very community. And a quick establishment of iScotland’s status in the international community will be absolutely crucial to limit the damage caused by a Yes vote.”

      My Slovene girlfriend is ofcourse not Prof Adam Tomkinski, world renowned friend of justice and freedom, as long as the arrogant Scots don’t get near it!

      So Yes voters of Scotland, you won’t be allowed a transplant of anything English, you’re not a friend of justice nor freedom but, you are arrogant beyond belief, which is something.

    63. Anthony Armstrong says:

      I’ll have nobody to vote for after this is all over, John Scott has been the one positive down this way, sad to hear him joining in with that rubbish.

    64. Les Wilson says:

      Alan Ritchie says:
      16 August, 2014 at 1:32 pm
      In fairness, if rUK loses Scotland’s oil, they wont be able to pay for Great Ormond St, and it will close…

      THIS IS, a question of responsibility for rUK, ie get rid of the House of Lords ( unelected!), get rid of Trident, am sure many other none essentials, they could fund the health of their people no problem.

      YOUR SUGGESTION that somehow if we stop letting them steal our oil, rUK will lose these specialist hospitals. Is a crass attempt to once more scare Scots. Complete bunkum and you know it. They have plenty choices, if they have the guts to use them. Will they? go lobby them and ask the question.

    65. laukat says:

      o/t Mike Smithson tweeting about a new indyref poll here https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/500658734226751490

      Numbers are 42Y/45N/12DK’s without DK’s 48Y/52N.

    66. Minty says:

      Mike Smithson from Political Betting has just tweeted this Panelbase:

      New #IndyRef poll for @YesScotland from Panelbase has gap down to 4%
      Yes 42%
      No 46%
      DK 12%
      Excl DKs 52-48
      The firm has had the best YES%

    67. Brian McHugh says:

      I put all my YES posters up on my windows the day after the Games ended and until now, there were no other YES stuff in windows in the near vicinity… just came back in from the shops and someone across the street has stuck yes up too…

      …here we go…3…4…5…6… 🙂

    68. goldenayr says:

      Jim Thomson

      McAlpine’s speech was a cracker and the perfect rebuff to Scott’s lacklustre defence of his union.

      Got a far warmer and longer applause as well.

    69. Jim Thomson says:

      @goldenayr 4:16

      If you think his was good, have a listen to the utter pish this “Professor” Dan Wright talks at the same meeting.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfcrbUNd0JM

      How he gained his professorial rank, gawd only knows.

    70. Jim Thomson says:

      All above available on http://www.yestroon.org btw

    71. macart763m says:

      Finally saw a BTVNBOUOK stall in my high street today trying to hand out balloons and leaflets. As Mrs M and I walked passed (much like everyone else) one of them stepped out to offer me a balloon and a leaflet. I smiled sweetly at this slightly unhappy looking individual and simply said ‘no thanks’.

      I’ve been waiting months to say that. 🙂

      Mrs M had a fit of the giggles as we sauntered on our way considering my usual demeanour on the subject of BTVNBUKOK representatives.

    72. goldenayr says:

      Jim Thomson

      “PROFESSOR”????

      Just as well I watched the Ivan McKee vid after to restore sanity.

    73. Les Wilson says:

      laukat says:

      BEEN REMOVED!

    74. Les Wilson says:

      I smell panic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    75. Jim says:

      @Ealasaid
      He doesn’t miss the point, he knows full well that he is propagating lies because I am pretty sure he will have read at the top of the page that GOSH has reciprocal healthcare agreements with numerous countries.
      It is a mantra that they will keep repeating even knowing it is lies because there are still people that are unaware of the facts and they hope to scare those people into voting no.

    76. Jim Thomson says:

      @Les Wilson & @Minty

      There goes the 3% margin of error 🙂

    77. Iain says:

      I think the Panelbase poll had been embargoed till midnight and Smithson f***ed up. Premature polljaculation!

    78. Jim says:

      @Ealasaid
      He doesn’t miss the point, he knows full well that he is propagating lies because I am pretty sure he will have read at the top of the page that GOSH has reciprocal healthcare agreements with numerous countries.
      It is a mantra that they will keep repeating even knowing it is lies because there are still people that are unaware of the facts and they hope to scare those people into voting no.

    79. Lockie says:

      Well done Jeane Freeman

    80. Jim Thomson says:

      @goldenayr

      we held another Yes event on Tuesday this week in the South Beach Hotel with Ivan, Jim Sillars, Ben Brotherston and our very own Philippa.

      It’s all been video and sound recorded and we might have some rushes up from one camera on the Yes Troon website as well as YouTube in a couple of days once they’ve been tidied up and packaged a bit better than just the raw footage.

      That will also include the Q&A session after the speechifying.

    81. Hood says:

      Jim Thomson
      Also consider that the survey released the last day suggests a break of 2:1 for Yes amongst undecided and its 50/50.
      Meanwhile back in the real world that means Yes is probably nearing 60%

    82. heedtracker says:

      Mrs M had a fit of the giggles as we sauntered on our way considering my usual demeanour on the subject of BTVNBUKOK representatives.

      And now me too macart763m, here in Aberdeen:D

    83. john king says:

      He even began his tissue of lies with a lie, “since Scotland became a devolved country we have had complete responsiblity for our health”
      ding!
      WRONG we have always had “complete responsiblility” for our own health since the inception of the NHS!

      Isnt it great that an ordinary member of the public could tie a clown like that up in knots, we owe that to Stu!

    84. macart763m says:

      It felt sooooo good Heed. 😀

    85. Des says:

      There is a plan B C and D! The fiscal commission report outlines the alternatives!!! I still dont fully understand why we cant keep the pound, there has been 74 countries that were British territories and used to use the pound not one of them were/are being treated the way we are in Scotland. Lets take Gibraltar, for example, they still use the POUND STERLING with a “1:1 exchange rate” so why are we the exception? Is it because David Cameron knows if he loses Scotland he loses his cash cow?.. Is this a case of the baby throwing the toys out the pram because nothing is going their way? I really dont know how we are any different someone please enlighten me?..People please don’t believe the lies from Westminster, we can & will be independent & financially better off.

    86. Chic McGregor says:

      Great Ormond St funded to an undisclosed, but no doubt significant level by a copyright endowment from Scot and Kirrie man, J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan author).

    87. scottimusprime says:

      http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/an-american-doctor-experiences-an-nhs-emergency-room/

      If this American doctor can get NHS care in England, I’m pretty sure we can as well.

    88. Grouse Beater says:

      I heard that programme by chance while driving, and was shocked at the sheer mendacity of the No representatives.

      I kept awaiting an apology from Scott; he had his facts wrong, so sorry, but no, he kept reiterating the lie.

      Was it hubris that stopped him from expressing humility, explaining his error? Was he so brainwashed he thought he was spouting truth? Or is he so venal and corrupt that he’d rather win by lying.

      If the latter, why is John Scott in office?

    89. Big Jock says:

      The psychological condition is called Mythlomania.

    90. Marco McGinty says:

      And we have the recent, tragic event at Tilbury, where one suspected illegal immigrant died, trapped in a shipping container, with many others suffering from hypothermia and dehydration. These poor individuals were all treated at an English hospital.

      It’s perhaps a slightly different matter, but there are also Duty of Care laws, of which this is a good example, so there doesn’t even have to be a reciprocal agreement between countries. You could also add to that the goodwill prevalent in healthcare professionals.

      But then again, should we be surprised that a tory cannot understand the objectives of goodwill, compassion and decency?

    91. alistair says:

      Can anyone point me to the breakdown by bank for the banking bailout by the US federal reserve that has come out from the audit. Saw it in last couple of days but cant te-find it.
      Thanks

    92. Big Jock says:

      So if don’t knows are 12% in the poll.Yes have 42% and they are currently taking 2/3s of don’t knows = 50% yes and 50% no.So no are now relying on that 4% of don’t knows going to them.Squeaky bum time for no.The other thing to bear in mind the polls are not picking up at least 10% of the yes’s from the working class areas.No will not pick up any votes from working class areas or enough to be significant.We are actually now 5\10% ahead of no!

    93. Capella says:

      This morning, Eleanor Bradford, BBC Scotland Health Correspondent, published a news item critical of the provision of care for people who are terminally ill. She cited the case of a man with MND in East Ayrshire, which happens to be an SNP/Con administration.
      http://tinyurl.com/p5rhlte
      Since Local Authorities provide differing levels of care, the implication might be that East Ayrshire is particularly bad. But we know from Wee Ginger Dug’s experience, which he described in his post of June 13th “Not Caring”, that provision in Labour controlled Glasgow is also very poor. http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/06/page/3/
      It’s a pity that politicians such as John Scott can’t tell the truth in a debate about such a vital issue. Then we might be able to spend public money on services that matter instead of tax cuts for the rich, bankers’ bonuses, foreign wars and Trident missiles.

    94. Thepnr says:

      @alastair

      I don’t know of the audit you talk of but try this, explains thinks pretty well, might be what you are looking for.

      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/bizforscotland-destroys-the-no-campaigns-bank-bail-out-lies/

    95. Taranaich says:

      “Since Scotland became a devolved country, we have had complete responsibility for our health”

      “The Scottish Government has responsibility for finance”

      The Health & Social Care Act 2012 has “nothing to do with Scotland” I thought this was meant to be One Nation?

      There were a couple of other gigantic lies in there. John King quite rightly pointed out that he STARTED with a big like (“Since Scotland became a devolved country, we have had complete responsibility for our health” – implying that Scotland’s health services were not already separate beforehand), but I counted two more:

      “The Scottish Government has responsibility for finance” – how can you possibly say it has responsibility for finance when it has practically no control over its own revenue?

      The Health & Social Care Act 2012 has “nothing to do with Scotland” I thought this was meant to be One Nation? Jean ably handled that one, but I have to wonder how Unionists manage to balance “Scotland is a country with its own ideas and direction” with “the UK is Our Country whose constituents are more similar than dissimilar”. They happily point to shared history and trends as proof of our similarities, yet also paradoxically point to our differences as proof that we have “enough” devolution.

    96. Robert Peffers says:

      @Morag says: 16 August, 2014 at 1:14 pm:

      “I assume, however, that NHS Borders is going to have to pony up some lolly to NHS London to compensate for them taking care of me while I was in their area. And I can see no reason at all why this excellent arrangement shouldn’t continue after independence.”

      I did reply to your post in the other thread, Morag, but, (along with wishing you well soon), will point out again what an English Borders GP told me. The out of practice patients own NHS is billed for the treatment as if they were private patients and they are thus treated by the local GPs as if they were private patients. Right down to getting extra time per consultation than if they were NHS patients.

    97. Robert Peffers says:

      @Juteman says: 16 August, 2014 at 1:18 pm:

      “The No mob must really hate Scotland. Why else would they try to scare their own people?”

      Ah! Juteman, It is, perhaps not hate they have for their own country-persons but downright, gut churning, abject fear. What better driver of prevarication than the fear of a nice little earning coming to an abrupt, juddering, crashing halt.

      While not really too bad for the Blairs and Browns of this World who can earn even more after leaving office. Who, though, would pay good money for an after dinner lecture from the lugubrious and Rt Honourable James Francis “Jim” Murphy, Member of Parliament for East Renfrewshire?

    98. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 16 August, 2014 at 1:48 pm:

      “I think he’s just too thick to understand how devolved responsibilities are financed and how Barnett works! Lying takes a certain minimum level of imagination and intellect.”

      I’ve said for many long years that the average Ministers and MPs do not understand the whole Barnett Formula and what it is designed to do. I’ve lost count of the MPs, former and current, ministers, former and current, that I have, (innocently), asked to explain both the concept and purpose only to be yet awaiting a correct answer.

      How can they do so when they claim Barnett is, “A needs based”, concept when it certainly is not. When they contend that Scotland is subsidise by the English and when they cannot explain Barnett Consequentials?

      If they make wrong claims, explain the systen wrongly or remember an urgent previous engagement then they are either liars or thick as the proverbial smelly stuff in the proverbial bottle.

    99. gerry parker says:

      @ Robert.

      It’s probably the same fear the workers in the mines, the shipyards, Caterpillar, Ravenscraig and another multitude of firms had when the politicians were making those “hard decisions” they always spoke about, that cost other people their jobs.

      Well, now it’s our turn to make the hard decisions, it’s a tough job, but somebody’s got to do it.

    100. Auld Rock says:

      Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t a lady from Scott’s constituency with a rare blood disorder flown to Stockholm for successful treatment a couple of years ago? Also doesn’t such a reciprocal arrangement exist throughout the EU with payment being covered by country of origin of patient?

      Auld Rock

    101. Robert Peffers says:

      @CharlieMurphy says: 16 August, 2014 at 1:58 pm:

      “Well actually, some children wouldn’t have access to those hospitals if they were born post-independence and without British citizenship.”

      Well, actually, Charlie, I believe you to be wrong as it is not a matter of nationality but of different Health Services. If you read GOSH’s last rebuttal you would see they say they have reciprocle agreements with countries throut Europe.

      The agreement with the Scottish & English NHS is an EU wide agreement and any EU citizen can claim treatment in any EU state.

    102. eddiefaeglesga says:

      the wife came home with 2 yes badges, fucking magic as I am house bound made my day,takes me ages to type so cannot join in this thread

    103. Thepnr says:

      @eddiefaeglesga

      Cheers eddie, warms my heart to hear you say that. Hello to the missus as well 🙂

    104. Ananurhing says:

      A pal of mine from Denmark required a cosmetic procedure on a badly disfigured, blinded eye. He always wore thick, dark glasses to hide his disfigurement. Procedure unavailable in Denmark, and only available at a private clinic in England.

      The Danish Health Service paid for his trips to England, and his treatment, regardless of reciprocal arrangements, completely transforming his life and prospects.

      Not bad for a wee country of 5 million or so.

    105. X_Sticks says:

      macart763m says:

      ‘no thanks’

      An outburst of sniggering here macart 😀

    106. Grouse Beater says:

      I heard that programme by chance while driving

      Inspired by the same subject:
      The Architecture of Violence – grousebeater.wordpress

    107. thedogphilosopher says:

      Someone posted Jim Murphy bawling in Shawlands yesterday and I noticed that Murphy has in his entourage a professional camera set-up. Don’t be surprised if they use the heckling he gets in some kind of smear campaign. Why does he set up so close to a Yes stall? No accident, me thinks.

      We’re entering the dirty tricks stage now.

    108. geeo says:

      Scotland on sunday saying that Yes stance on currency not hurting as ICM poll says support rising despite recent events !

      The big stick is as effective as Basil Fawlty thrashing his broken down car it seems..lol

    109. geeo says:

      My new fav phrase !!!

      “A uk that promises ice cream but serves up yellow snow”

      Brilliant…!

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/comment/columnists/the-immorality-of-a-uk-that-promises-ice-cream-and-serves-up-yellow-snow.

    110. fletch says:

      There is really only a few plausable reasons for John Scott vocalising this (Maybe he can tell us which one applies):
      1. He’s as thick as mince
      2. He’s completely deluded
      3. He’s unashamedly lying to the Scotish people



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